Messages in S-Trains group.

Page 1 of 1.

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Group: S-Trains	Message: 898	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 899	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: Re: Franklin shorting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 900	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: AC vs DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 901	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: Re: S Mod
Group: S-Trains	Message: 902	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 903	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 904	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 905	From: ClaimsBoss@aol.com	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: AC vs DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 906	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: DC Conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 907	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 908	From: Skip Mersereau	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: Re: DC Conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 909	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: DC Conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 910	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: DC Conversion--stubborn AC Operator!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 911	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 912	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: DC Conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 913	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 914	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 915	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: MPSM - Des Plaines Hobbies FMC Boxcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 916	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: MPSM - Alcos in 1999.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 917	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: 751 Parts Needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 918	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Flyer 302 Steam Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 919	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer 302 Steam Engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 920	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Auto unloading car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 921	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Auto unloading car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 922	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Decals for circus car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 923	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Auto unloading car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 924	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 925	From: Raymond Abbott	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Pulse Width Modulation DC Motor Control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 926	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Walther's Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 927	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 928	From: Richard McClary	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: Vehicle loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 929	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: pass car lighting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 930	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: Re: pass car lighting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 931	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: Pikestuff buildings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 932	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 91
Group: S-Trains	Message: 933	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: car transporter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 934	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: Weekend report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 935	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: SW1 in the Dispatch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 936	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: 302 problematic pilots, Franklin follies
Group: S-Trains	Message: 937	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: A 1:64 Market Waiting to Be Exploited?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 938	From: RWJW3@aol.com	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Re: Hand Car Bridge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 939	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Re: Hand Car Bridge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 940	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] New products of interest that might work for S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 941	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: American Flyer Lines, a Fallen Flag???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 942	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Laona & Northern 2-6-2s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 943	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Re: NCC repro load
Group: S-Trains	Message: 944	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: J-R Outlets, Statesville, NC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 945	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: MODEL RAILROADER SURVEY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 946	From: Gene and Mary Rutter	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: AF Santa Fe parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 947	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Re: J-R Outlets, Statesville, NC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 948	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Re: SW1 in the Dispatch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 949	From: NYC17819@aol.com	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Lyin'L
Group: S-Trains	Message: 950	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Pacific Rail Shops
Group: S-Trains	Message: 951	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Alps Printer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 952	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: J-R Outlets, Statesville, NC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 953	From: Allen Evans	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: Lyin'L
Group: S-Trains	Message: 954	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: 302 and oil tender?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 955	From: Mark Preman	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale - January List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 956	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: Hand Car Bridge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 957	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Layout Pix
Group: S-Trains	Message: 958	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: revive Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 959	From: Alex Randall	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: revive Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 960	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: PIV
Group: S-Trains	Message: 961	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: revive Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 962	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: Ceramic villages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 963	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: New S Reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 964	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: SW1 in the Dispatch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 965	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Amtrak Superliners for half price?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 966	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: I am sooooo sorry
Group: S-Trains	Message: 967	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: I am sooooo sorry
Group: S-Trains	Message: 968	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Updates all around
Group: S-Trains	Message: 969	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: revive Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 970	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: PIV and Fire Truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 971	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: PIV and Fire Truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 972	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: An Orient Express Model Train?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 973	From: JoeAWood@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Club Logo cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 974	From: Stephen D. Smedberg	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Reproduction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 975	From: Stephen D. Smedberg	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Reproduction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 976	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: 751 Log Loader Parts.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 977	From: John Foley	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Disdpatch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 978	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: PIV and Fire Truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 979	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: revive Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 980	From: Robert Sharkey	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: AF 741 Handcar and Shed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 981	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: AF 741 Handcar and Shed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 982	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: AF 741 Handcar and Shed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 983	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Pac Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 984	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 96
Group: S-Trains	Message: 985	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: running on DC (was: AF 741 Handcar and Shed)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 986	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: running on DC (was: AF 741 Handcar and Shed)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 987	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: I am sooooo sorry
Group: S-Trains	Message: 988	From: alice beachy	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: [Fwd: 1/64 Period Fire Trucks]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 989	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF 741 Handcar and Shed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 990	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: running on DC (was: AF 741 Handcar and Shed)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 991	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF 741 Handcar and Shed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 992	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 993	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: Handcar and shed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 994	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Stall current
Group: S-Trains	Message: 995	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Soundtrax, SW9s & FP7s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 996	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 997	From: paul1049	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 998	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 999	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: transformers and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1000	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1001	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1002	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1003	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Lenz Site for DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1004	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Non-Flyer Track and action cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1005	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1006	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1007	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: AF DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1008	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1009	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1010	From: Richard McClary	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Subscription question...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1011	From: Raymond Abbott	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Dcc Loco Modules
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1012	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: roller bearing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1013	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: Dcc Loco Modules
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1014	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: Dcc Loco Modules
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1015	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1016	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1017	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1018	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1019	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Bill Geracci
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1020	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: DCC actions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1021	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Survey Data Input Options
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1022	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: White auto store set 20212
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1023	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: PIV
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1024	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 100
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1025	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: White auto store set 20212
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1026	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Transformer Buzz
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1027	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: Transformer Buzz
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1028	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1029	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: DC & Smoke Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1030	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: DC & Smoke Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1031	From: John Foley	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1032	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1033	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Third Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1034	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Smoke Fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1035	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Reversing a forward trend
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1036	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: DC & Smoke Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1037	From: Dennis Back	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: DC & Smoke Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1038	From: RobertE613@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Royal Blue Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1039	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1040	From: John Foley	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1041	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: DECALS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1042	From: John Foley	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1043	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: DC conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1044	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: DECALS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1045	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: S Brass for Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1046	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Three-Bay Sample Arrives - Orbisonia Progressing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1047	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: DECALS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1048	From: busy-boy	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: dcc developments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1049	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: DC Smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1050	From: Dennis Back	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Wanted: repro AF track gang
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1051	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert F9s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1052	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: dcc developments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1053	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: address books
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1054	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: DC Smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1055	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: reefer model
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1056	From: John Foley	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: New S Scale Model From 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1057	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Re: New S Scale Model From 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1058	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1059	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Flyer Curves vs...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1060	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1061	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1062	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Re: reefer model
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1063	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail USRA 2-8-2s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1064	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: No Subject
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1065	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Heavy and light mikes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1066	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: radius of curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1067	From: Russell McClellan	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: AF Circus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1068	From: Robert Sharkey	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Refinishing Grungy AF Equipment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1069	From: JSBMLB@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Good message
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1070	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Re: AF Circus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1071	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: AF Circus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1072	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: restoration or not
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1073	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: SHS SW-9 and Flat on sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1074	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Roof Walks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1075	From: michael prell	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Ordering Parts Confusion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1076	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: radius of curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1077	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: 3rd Rail USRA 2-8-2s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1078	From: John Foley	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Brass Modern Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1079	From: Tomlinson, John D	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: radius of curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1080	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: what we need in Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1081	From: Tomlinson, John D	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: what we need in Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1082	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: radius of curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1083	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: radius of curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1084	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: re SW9...smitten
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1085	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Modern Bus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1086	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: Blind Drivers/wide tires
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1087	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: SALE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1088	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Modern Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1089	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: 2-8-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1090	From: Allen Evans	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: Diesels and Dust
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1091	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: AF part #s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1092	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: [Fwd: [S-Trains] 2-8-2]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1093	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Refinishing Grungy AF Equipment]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1094	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Sounds like old times
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1095	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Bus Photo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1096	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] 2-8-2]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1097	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] 2-8-2]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1098	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Memory Lane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1099	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Vehicle Size
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1100	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] 2-8-2]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1101	From: JSBMLB@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] 2-8-2]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1102	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] 2-8-2]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1103	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Modern Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1104	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Memory Lane & bus fun.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1105	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: International School Bus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1106	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Memory Lane & bus fun.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1107	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: bus action accessort
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1108	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: The Welley Tour Coach and Bus Memory lane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1109	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Mikado, why not BUILD one?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1110	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Modern Bus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1111	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: SW9 @ Walthers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1112	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re Modern Bus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1113	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Modern Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1114	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Mikado, why not BUILD one?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1115	From: Mark Preman	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Fwd: FOR SALE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1116	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Hurray!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1117	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Roof Walks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1118	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1119	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: re New S scale recruits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1120	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Radius, Mikes, and Northerns
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1121	From: PatnDave	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Modern Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1122	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1123	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: radius of curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1124	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1125	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1126	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Tonka Trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1127	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Lionel Catalog
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1128	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: S-guage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1129	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1130	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: re SW9...smitten
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1131	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: DICKENSVILLE TRAIN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1132	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: reefer model
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1133	From: Tomlinson, John D	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: DICKENSVILLE TRAIN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1134	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Gargraves trak, repair manual source
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1135	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: Gargraves trak, repair manual source
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1136	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: min radius for brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1137	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1138	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1139	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: DICKENSVILLE TRAIN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1140	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: Attn: Jeff Malacot(?)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1141	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: min radius for brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1142	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: min. radius for brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1143	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: min. radius for brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1144	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: More toys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1145	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: early intermodal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1146	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Price
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1147	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1148	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: New pages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1149	From: James R. Schiele	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1150	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Re: New Shipment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1151	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Re: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1152	From: michael prell	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1153	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Gargraves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1154	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Re: New pages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1155	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Re: min. radius for brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1156	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel catalog /Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1157	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Johnny Lightning Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1158	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: early intermodal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1159	From: seg@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Hobby Surplus Sales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1160	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: The target should be Target
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1161	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: The target should be Target (continued)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1162	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Just One More Thing...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1163	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: demaggnetizing reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1164	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: 0n30 rolling stock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1165	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Re: Good message
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1166	From: michael prell	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Re: Good message
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1167	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Obnoxious message
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1168	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Re: ME
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1169	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: cermaic villages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1170	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1171	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Re: Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1172	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Digest Number 108
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1173	From: John Foley	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: ZEPHYR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1174	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1175	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Exercise the nine dots!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1176	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: 336, Atlantic, switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1177	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: L AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1178	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: 293 decay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1179	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Re: Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1180	From: TerryMacE@aol.com	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: AF Semaphores
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1181	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Re: 336, Atlantic, switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1182	From: Allen Evans	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail Makes A Totally Kool Move
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1183	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Flames of passion?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1184	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Ditto and Ken Z.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1185	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Villages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1186	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Ya know you are an S gauger if.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1187	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: Ya know you are an S gauger if.......
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1188	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: 3rd Rail Makes A Totally Kool Move
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1189	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: BRASS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1190	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1191	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Atlantic, and 293
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1192	From: Bill Clark	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: ZEPHYR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1193	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: S scale Zephyr
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1194	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: ZEPHYR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1195	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: BACHMANN "S"?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1196	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: More brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1197	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: INITIAL BACH-man RESPONSE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1198	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Misc- Xmas is OVER ! - or- Remember the S orphans...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1199	From: Andy Hornback	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Wanted: AF RoadBed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1200	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Zepher order
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1201	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: - Remember the S orphans...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1202	From: Alex Randall	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Wanted: AF RoadBed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1203	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: Wanted: AF RoadBed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1204	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: AF Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1205	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Orphans,Ceramics and Mice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1206	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: You know You are an S gauger if:
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1207	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: You know....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1208	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 109
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1209	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Sorry!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1210	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Bachmann/Department 56 Alliance A Myth?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1211	From: Gf3897@aol.com	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 109
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1212	From: PatnDave	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 109
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1213	From: Bill Clark	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: What price for a brass Zepher (Flying Yankee??)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1214	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Wanted: AF roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1215	From: PatnDave	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: ZEPHYR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1216	From: Theodore Fabian	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: An Opinion You can Use, or Discard..
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1217	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: an opinion I can discard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1218	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 109
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1219	From: Allen Evans	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Why Things Are The Way They Are
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1220	From: busy-boy	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Gauge X
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1221	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Interesting things for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1222	From: John Foley	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Correction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1223	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Opinions are good!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1224	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Correction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1225	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 109
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1226	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: ZEPHYR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1227	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Correction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1228	From: John E. Dalton	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Inappropriate message
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1229	From: Boul, Lawrence	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 110
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1230	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: An Opinion You can Use, or Discard..
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1231	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 110
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1232	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 110
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1233	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Some Guidelines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1234	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Dorothy on Guage X etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1235	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Guidelines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1236	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1237	From: John Foley	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: P1a
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1238	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 108 Subject: demagnetizing reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1239	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Diesel costing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1240	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Ideas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1241	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 111
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1242	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1243	From: John Foley	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Staying
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1244	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Cranky 293
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1245	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1246	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Zephyrs, Mass Production and Opinions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1247	From: MARIA W BRYAN	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: AF Partsmaker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1248	From: busy-boy	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Too Much Mail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1249	From: Chasbo86@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: train show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1250	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Re: train show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1251	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Where's the PS-1?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1252	From: MARIA W BRYAN	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: AF Alco Shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1253	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Car Fans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1254	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: More of the same
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1255	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Gondolas in S gauge?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1256	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Re: Gondolas in S gauge?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1257	From: Dale Smith	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Sorting Mail - A suggestion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1258	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: sorting mail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1259	From: softmoods@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: D&RGW BOX CAR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1260	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: sorting mail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1261	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: sorting mail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1262	From: John Foley	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Hamburg
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1263	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: Digest #113 Cranky 293
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1264	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: power pack
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1265	From: busy-boy	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Correction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1266	From: joes-train-repair@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1267	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: Gondolas in S gauge?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1268	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: redwalls
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1269	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: power pack
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1270	From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: Redwalls
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1271	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: Redwalls
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1272	From: John Foley	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: S Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1273	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1274	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Ooops, an apology! (list history)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1275	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Freight cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1276	From: John Foley	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: 3RD Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1277	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: Freight cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1278	From: Jarcho	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: freight cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1279	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Advertising and "S"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1280	From: AFSTrains@aol.com	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 113
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1281	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Photos in Nth Cal/Oregon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1282	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Boss31 - - comm wear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1283	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Re: Redlines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1284	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: What's Happening at B.T.S.!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1285	From: KROLL	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: maps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1286	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Target's Response
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1287	From: buzz davis	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: AFhe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1288	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Re: AFhe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1289	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Re: AFhe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1290	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Re: AF action caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1291	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Re: AFhe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1292	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Re: AFhe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1293	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: looking for a few good FAQs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1294	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Scenery
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1295	From: Bill Rodgers	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: DYNAMIC BRAKE CONVERSION FOR AK GP7 SHELL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1296	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Members
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1297	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: List modification
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1298	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: List modification
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1299	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: cork roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1300	From: Richard McClary	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: List modification
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1301	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: AF car body 'pins'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1302	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Dynamic Brake parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1303	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest #115 977 caboose "pins"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1304	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: S-Gauge for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1305	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: Commutator resurfacing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1306	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: AFhe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1307	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest #115 977 caboose "pins"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1308	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: Dynamic Brakes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1309	From: buzz davis	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1310	From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Flying Yankee
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1311	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Taking the jitter out of the 977 flagman
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1312	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: Taking the jitter out of the 977 flagman
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1313	From: RBaratta@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: SanteFe Alco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1314	From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Cork Road Bed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1315	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Agent Orange
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1316	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: scenery & paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1317	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: 3rd rail ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1318	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Re: 3rd rail ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1319	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Re: Agent Orange
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1320	From: seg@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Floor pins
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1321	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Weekend Report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1322	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Re: Agent Orange
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1323	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: k335 headlight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1324	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Re: k335 headlight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1325	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Re: Agent Orange
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1326	From: RB	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: AF engine "wobble"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1327	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: PIns, handrails, GG-1 volume
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1328	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: powered dummy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1329	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: flyer puzzlers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1330	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: STARTER SETS?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1331	From: Dennis Back	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: AF 5th wire smoke/light
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1332	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Re: AF 5th wire smoke/light
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1333	From: michael prell	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Re: STARTER SETS?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1334	From: Rodney.Booth@xxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: clubs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1335	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Re: STARTER SETS?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1336	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Re: cork roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1337	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Re: PFEX fleet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1338	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: S Gaugian being indexed online!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1339	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Out of the Net
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1340	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Looking for a "Police USA" car...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1341	From: John Foley	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Tennessee S Club
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1342	From: John E. Dalton	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: S-Trains FAQ
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1343	From: John E. Dalton	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Re: S Gaugian being indexed online!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1344	From: Bill and Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: [S] More rare stuff for sale!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1345	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Roundhouse diagram corrections
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1346	From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Retail List Price
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1347	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: 1/64 cars at Wal-Mart
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1348	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: S Gaugian Index?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1349	From: Joseph F Haenn	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Change of e-mail address
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1350	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Re: Starter sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1351	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Re: PM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1352	From: Ross M Roberts	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Police USA Vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1353	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1354	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Armatures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1355	From: William Porter	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Homasote v Cork
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1356	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: WAL-MART CARS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1357	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Digest Number 119
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1358	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: gondolas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1359	From: Allen Evans	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Good-Bye Ted!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1360	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: cork vs homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1361	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Re: gondolas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1362	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Road Bed Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1363	From: Loyd, Warren	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Re: Road Bed Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1364	From: William Porter	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Quite Road Bed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1365	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Cork v Else
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1366	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Re: Homasote v Cork
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1367	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Paint - zephyr
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1368	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Re: WAL-MART CARS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1369	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Re: roadbed pricing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1370	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Re: Quiet Road Bed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1371	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: What's up with Target and Racing Champions?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1372	From: Alex Randall	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Ceramic Villages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1373	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Racing Champs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1374	From: Bill Clark	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: cork vs homasote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1375	From: John Foley	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: 3Rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1376	From: Allen Evans	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Request for Roadbed Substitutes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1377	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Paint - zephyr
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1378	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Roadbed and Racing Champion Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1379	From: michael prell	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Request for Roadbed Substitutes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1380	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Quite Road Bed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1381	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Ceramic Villages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1382	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Racing Champion Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1383	From: D Simon	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: WTB: 314AW Whistle Controller
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1384	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Road Bed Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1385	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Quite Road Bed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1386	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: roadbed/noise
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1387	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Roadbed:Cork vs. Homosote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1388	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Dry cork!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1389	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1390	From: alice beachy	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Circus Sound Board
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1391	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Circus Sound Board
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1392	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Dry cork!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1393	From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Apples to Oranges??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1394	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Chris' frozen wheel caboose question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1395	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Code 3 Fire Engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1396	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Roadbed/Ballast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1397	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Digest Number 121
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1398	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Digest Number 121
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1399	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: CERAMIC VILLAGES AND TRAINS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1400	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Another Roadbed Material
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1401	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Trainstuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1402	From: michael prell	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Just For The Fun Of It!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1403	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Fire Engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1404	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Americn Model Builders Kits in S scale!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1405	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Re: Trainstuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1406	From: John	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 121
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1407	From: alice beachy	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: 40's era fire equipment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1408	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: magnifier for close work = what?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1409	From: michael prell	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: 314AW control information.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1410	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: Continental Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1411	From: busy-boy	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: Dear John Letter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1412	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: Mistakes, Errors and Feet in Mouth
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1413	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: PLEASE DELETE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1414	From: RKuep44202@aol.com	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: Cork Roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1415	From: Dennis Back	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: Re: Cork Roadbed edge bevel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1416	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Re: magnifier for close work = what?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1417	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: PRS Reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1418	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: Re: magnifier for close work = what?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1419	From: jim	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Low cost rolling stock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1420	From: jim	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: List of low cost rolling stock suitable for S gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1421	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: magnifier for close work = what?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1422	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Smoke units help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1423	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Sound traxx
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1424	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1425	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1426	From: William Porter	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Sound traxx
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1427	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Atlantic info-choo choo screw link info?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1428	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Cork roadbed, Homisote etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1429	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: New Pages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1430	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Low cost rolling stock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1431	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Atlantic info-choo choo screw link info?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1432	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: 1938 Fire Truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1433	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 123
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1434	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: CONTINENTAL FLYER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1435	From: A50flyer@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: 314 control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1436	From: A50flyer@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: road bed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1437	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1438	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Cork roadbed, Homisote etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1439	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Mistakes, Errors and Feet in Mouth
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1440	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Continental flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1441	From: TerryMacE@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: AF Knuckle Coupler Problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1442	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Continental flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1443	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: AF Knuckle Coupler Problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1444	From: William H Trefts	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Magnifier
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1445	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Continental Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1446	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Digest Number 123
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1447	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Continental flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1448	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: AF Knuckle Coupler Problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1449	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: thanx all for info, gonna hurry up and slow down...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1450	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Continental Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1451	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: thanx all for info, gonna hurry up and slow down...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1452	From: buzz davis	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: reverse loop
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1453	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: NASG Dispatch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1454	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Continental Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1455	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Sound traxx
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1456	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: thanx all for info, gonna hurry up and slow down...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1457	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: thanx all for info, gonna hurry up and slow down...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1458	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: PRS Reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1459	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Continental Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1460	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Americn Model Builders Kits in S scale!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1461	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Fire Engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1462	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1463	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1464	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: PRS Reefers & despruing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1465	From: James Tanley	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: LTI Sothern Pacific
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1466	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: 314AW control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1467	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Fox Pro to Access
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1468	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Testing AF Locos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1469	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1470	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1471	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 125
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1472	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Metal train sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1473	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Reversing and spiking
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1474	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI Sothern Pacific
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1475	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Re: Reversing and spiking
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1476	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI Sothern Pacific
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1477	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: More on magnifiers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1478	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Re: PFEX reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1479	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Soundtrax help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1480	From: M. McConnell	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Knuckle Coupler problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1481	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: early LTI diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1482	From: Richard Snook	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: DCC direction/load
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1483	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: More pages?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1484	From: Bill Clark	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: Soundtrax help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1485	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: DCC direction/load for sound
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1486	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: refacing comm's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1487	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: DCC direction/load for sound
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1488	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: DCC direction/load for sound
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1489	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: continental flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1490	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Continental Flyer discussion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1491	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: OT - Holiday budget
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1492	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: DCC direction/load
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1493	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: DCC direction/load for sound
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1494	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: what's it worth?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1495	From: Scott Holm	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: Smoke units help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1496	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: Smoke units help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1497	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: DCC direction/load
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1498	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Re: Smoke units help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1499	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: smoke units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1500	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: wicks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1501	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: the towel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1502	From: michael prell	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Re: the towel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1503	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Re: the towel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1504	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Re: the towel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1505	From: Kimball, Bob (PB)	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: American Models Wheelsets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1506	From: Dave Heine	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Re: DCC direction/load
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1507	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Browser Based Track planning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1508	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: oops
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1509	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Re: the towel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1510	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: is there a Doctor in the house
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1511	From: Roger Petrella	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 129
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1512	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Re: is there a Doctor in the house
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1513	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Re: the towel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1514	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 129
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1515	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Re: Armature headaches, was: Re: Digest Number 129
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1516	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Holiday costs - thanks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1517	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: armature
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1518	From: William Porter	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Rewinding
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1519	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Winross Internet Specials
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1520	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1521	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 2/6/1999
Subject: more towel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1522	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/6/1999
Subject: Re: rewinds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1523	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/6/1999
Subject: Digging into the Archives??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1524	From: Gerbasi	Date: 2/6/1999
Subject: Fw: vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1525	From: Gerbasi	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1526	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: AF Diesel Trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1527	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF Diesel Trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1528	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF Diesel Trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1529	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Some observations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1530	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Re: Figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1531	From: Chasbo86@aol.com	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: oil drum loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1532	From: Chasbo86@aol.com	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: oil drum loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1533	From: Dennis Back	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Re: Lighted Oil Drum Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1534	From: Jarcho	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1535	From: Jarcho	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: diesel sideframes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1536	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: More webpages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1537	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF Diesel Trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1538	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Sibyl
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1539	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Re: Figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1540	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Armature Winding Shorts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1541	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Re: Armature Winding Shorts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1542	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Re: Armature Winding Shorts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1543	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Re: Armature Winding Shorts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1544	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Re: Armature Winding Shorts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1545	From: Dave Heine	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: LVSG Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1546	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Trades
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1547	From: RKuep44202@aol.com	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: GARGRAVES TRACK
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1548	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Re: GARGRAVES TRACK
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1549	From: Rodney.Booth@knox.pcec.philips.com	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: 322
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1550	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: Ertl
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1551	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1552	From: MARIA W BRYAN	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: Re: 322
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1553	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: sideframes, diesels, old stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1554	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: Re: GARGRAVES TRACK
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1555	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: Re: 322
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1556	From: Mark Preman	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1557	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: Why Bother?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1558	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1559	From: William H Trefts	Date: 2/10/1999
Subject: Replacement material for SIT bellows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1560	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 2/10/1999
Subject: Re: Digging into the Archives??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1561	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/10/1999
Subject: Re: Replacement bellows for SIT units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1562	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/11/1999
Subject: CHEAP! plastic auto kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1563	From: softmoods@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/11/1999
Subject: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1564	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/11/1999
Subject: Re: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1565	From: D Simon	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: A. F. Inventory program
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1566	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory program
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1567	From: Heine, David L.	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory Program
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1568	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1569	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1570	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: Minimum Radius
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1571	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: Indian Stuff]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1572	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: UPDATE: S Gaugian in Model Train Magazine index
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1573	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: WTB: Jul/Aug 1995 Issue of S Gaugian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1574	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: QUERY: Omnicon BL-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1575	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: PPSSW, May the force with with us
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1576	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: QUERY: Omnicon BL-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1577	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: Indian Stuff]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1578	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 135
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1579	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: QUERY: Omnicon BL-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1580	From: Bill Horzempa	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 135
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1581	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Radius
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1582	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: Radius
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1583	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Handrails
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1584	From: Craig Stair	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: Handrails
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1585	From: Craig Stair	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory program
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1586	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory program
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1587	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: Handrails
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1588	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Progress of Sorts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1589	From: alice beachy	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Handrails and BL-2s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1590	From: Bill Horzempa	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Train Tracker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1591	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: MPSM News and SD50s?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1592	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: SW9 problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1593	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Re: MPSM News and SD50s?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1594	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Re: SW9 problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1595	From: Jim Hamlin	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 137
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1596	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: coal loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1597	From: Richard Snook	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: AM SD60's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1598	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Digitized Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1599	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Re: MPSM News and SD50s?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1600	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Re: Handrails and BL-2s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1601	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Radiuses - Oops!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1602	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: U25-B
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1603	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: BL-1 and curves or curves and BL-1s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1604	From: Richard Snook	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: BL-1 short answer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1605	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: BL-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1606	From: Richard Snook	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: re U25B
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1607	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Re: QUERY: Omnicon BL-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1608	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: Handrails and BL-2s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1609	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Digest Number 138
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1610	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Accessory footprints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1611	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: coal loader parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1612	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: New gondola loads, and other parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1613	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: Accessory footprints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1614	From: Dennis Back	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: Accessory footprints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1615	From: buzz davis	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: AF passenger cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1616	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: SD50s and U25Bs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1617	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: Gondola loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1618	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: AF passenger cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1619	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: SD50s and U25Bs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1620	From: Bill Rodgers	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: 0-6-0 BOILER SHELL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1621	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: SD50s and U25Bs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1622	From: John Foley	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: U25-B
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1623	From: John Foley	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: BL-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1624	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: DCC Decoders for over 1 amp application
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1625	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1626	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: footprints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1627	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Diesel Roar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1628	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Digest Number 139
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1629	From: Allen, Douglass H NWO	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 139, 0-6-0 BOILER SHELL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1630	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: Diesel Roar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1631	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1632	From: I/R@xxxxxxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Daniel 832-7428 at 7:24
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1633	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: Daniel 832-7428 at 7:24
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1634	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: 336 type engines & AF curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1635	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: 336 type engines & AF curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1636	From: John Foley	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Closed frog Switches [turnouts]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1637	From: Bill Rodgers	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: 0-6-0 BOILER/TOM JARCO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1638	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: MPSM News and SD50s?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1639	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: 336 type engines & AF curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1640	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: SW9s in S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1641	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: 336 type engines & AF curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1642	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: DigNumber 139 BL-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1643	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: Re: DigNumber 139 BL-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1644	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: gauging
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1645	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: Re: DigNumber 139 BL-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1646	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: Re: DigNumber 139 BL-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1647	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: Re: gauging--Thanks! (I think?)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1648	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: Re: gauging--Thanks! (I think?)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1649	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1650	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: Re: SW-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1651	From: Donald E. Munsey, Jr.	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: BL-2 daydreaming
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1652	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: SW-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1653	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: BL-2 daydreaming
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1654	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Digest Number 141
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1655	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: BL-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1656	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: bulkhead-flat loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1657	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 141
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1658	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: Diesel Roar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1659	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: The right track for an AM Gp9/18
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1660	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: Diesel Roar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1661	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: SW-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1662	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: The right track for an AM Gp9/18
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1663	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: SW-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1664	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Good news of the gp front
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1665	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1666	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: SW-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1667	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Derailments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1668	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Derailments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1669	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: The right track for an AM Gp9/18
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1670	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Bunch of stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1671	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 2/19/1999
Subject: 312 Green Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1672	From: Kimball, Bob (PB)	Date: 2/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 142
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1673	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/19/1999
Subject: UPDATE: S Gaugian index project
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1674	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/19/1999
Subject: Video Clips
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1675	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Non trains phone bill increase - internet access
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1676	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Re: Non trains phone bill increase - internet access
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1677	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Misc.]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1678	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Track products.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1679	From: Jim Hamlin	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Beginner Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1680	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Re: Beginner Questions--some answers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1681	From: Dave Heine	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Re: BL-2 daydreaming
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1682	From: AC4400W@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: 1999 TCA Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1683	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: S scale(gauge) trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1684	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: price guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1685	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Re: price guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1686	From: esquivel	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: move to north carolina
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1687	From: michael prell	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1688	From: michael prell	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1689	From: alice beachy	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: 1999 TCA Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1690	From: Dennis Back	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: 1999 TCA Car/SHOCKED!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1691	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1692	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: History lesson
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1693	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1694	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1695	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: 1999 TCA Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1696	From: Chasbo86@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: Beginner Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1697	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: price guides, prices, TCA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1698	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Good preaching
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1699	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides, prices, TCA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1700	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides, prices, TCA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1701	From: John Foley	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: NASG Name badges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1702	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Price guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1703	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Internet Access
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1704	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides, prices, TCA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1705	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides, prices, TCA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1706	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: three new members
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1707	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: variety
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1708	From: michael prell	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: price guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1709	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Digest Number 145
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1710	From: L Montgomery	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: AF with Ceramic Village Buildings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1711	From: Allen, Douglass H NWO	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 143, for Paul Yorke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1712	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 145: 314AW/modifying stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1713	From: Allen, Douglass H NWO	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 145, the 314 AW
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1714	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 145: 314AW/modifying stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1715	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 145, the 314 AW
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1716	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: (MPSM) ? SW-1s who had them?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1717	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Roadnames selected; Reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1718	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: More on roadnames!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1719	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Roadnames selected; Reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1720	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1721	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Re: Roadnames selected; Reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1722	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1723	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: price guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1724	From: BenTrous@aol.com	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Turnout Throwbars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1725	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: Turnout Throwbars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1726	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: One step forward...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1727	From: DBaker221@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: 751 Log Loader footprint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1728	From: michael prell	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1729	From: Chasbo86@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1730	From: michael prell	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1731	From: michael prell	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1732	From: AC4400W@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: 1999 TCA car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1733	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: USRA double sheath boxcar?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1734	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: The Real Reason For Pricers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1735	From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: The Real Reason for Pricers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1736	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: NASG Badges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1737	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: MPSM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1738	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: MPSM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1739	From: Richard Snook	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Hodgson method??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1740	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Tom Hodgson
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1741	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1742	From: Rodney.Booth@xxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: AF 310
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1743	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Prices & Collecting -The dark side
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1744	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Re: NASG Badges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1745	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Re: AF 310
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1746	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Digest Number 147
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1747	From: John Foley	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Badges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1748	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Artwork Copyright
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1749	From: ChooChoo64@aol.com	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Web Sites ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1750	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: log loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1751	From: Jarcho	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: AF 310
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1752	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: misc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1753	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Prices of trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1754	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: factory sealed Log Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1755	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: SW-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1756	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Re: 310 loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1757	From: DBaker221@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: More On The Factory Sealed 751 Log Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1758	From: Allen Evans	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: A Little of that 751 Now Lives In All of Us
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1759	From: A50flyer@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: 1999 TCA car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1760	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: The Factory Sealed 751 & Another story
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1761	From: Allen, Douglass H NWO	Date: 2/25/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 148, prices & collecting, the dark s ide.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1762	From: Scott Holm	Date: 2/25/1999
Subject: Paint colors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1763	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/25/1999
Subject: S Scale in the Chicago area.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1764	From: michael prell	Date: 2/25/1999
Subject: Story of a Born Again S'er!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1765	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 2/25/1999
Subject: Thursday night report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1766	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Dave Brannock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1767	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: 751 footprint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1768	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Chicaog Area Scale Layouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1769	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Re: A.F. 293 tender
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1770	From: John Foley	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Unigue switcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1771	From: John Foley	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Unigue switcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1772	From: John Eichmann (JOHN EICHMANN)	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Painting Hudson
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1773	From: Gerbasi	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Military Loads for Flatcars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1774	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Re: Painting Hudson
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1775	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Re: Painting Hudson
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1776	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Re: Unigue switcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1777	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Scena-Rama
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1778	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Factory Sealed 751 & another story from Tom R.!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1779	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Die cast cars]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1780	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: NW-5
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1781	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Re NW-5
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1782	From: Bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Re: NW-5
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1783	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1784	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Re: Re NW-5
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1785	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Re: Painting Hudson
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1786	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: when is gilbertville meet?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1787	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Re: when is gilbertville meet?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1788	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Re: Articulated coach; was repainting Hudson
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1789	From: Gerbasi	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: 1998 NASG car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1790	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Flyer Chat Sunday Nite!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1791	From: Joseph Langellotti	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: layout design software
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1792	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Ye Olde Huff and Puff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1793	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Painting Hudson
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1794	From: John Foley	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: NW-5
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1795	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff and Puff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1796	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: Re: Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1797	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: mystery Locomotive
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1798	From: Ross M Roberts	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: Vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1799	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: SW-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1800	From: Richard Snook	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: possible modern member
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1801	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: More Flyer Links
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1802	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: members
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1803	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Tomalco Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1804	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Dennis Back's layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1805	From: Allen, Douglass H NWO	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 154
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1806	From: John Foley	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: S Scale Loco & Supply
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1807	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Re: John Foley...Fun for HiRailers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1808	From: John Foley	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: P.S.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1809	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1810	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Re: eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1811	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: S Scale Loco & Supply - rebirth?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1812	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Ye Olde Huff and Puff & SU boxcars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1813	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Re: Tomalco Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1814	From: John Foley	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: P.S. Again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1815	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Modern Proto S list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1816	From: michael prell	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Re: The Real Reason For Pricers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1817	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Re: Ye Old Huff and Puff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1818	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: train software
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1819	From: esquivel	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: circus train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1820	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: off the diesel list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1821	From: John Foley	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: SSL&S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1822	From: John Foley	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Gray Diesel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1823	From: John Foley	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Re. P.S.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1824	From: John Foley	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: One of a kind loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1825	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Re: circus train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1826	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Re: off the diesel list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1827	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Blue and Orange
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1828	From: John Foley	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: SSL&S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1829	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: NASG Web Page
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1830	From: Craig Stair	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Re: NASG Web Page
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1831	From: softmoods@vcn.com	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: DISPATCH ERROR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1832	From: Allen, Douglass H NWO	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 156
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1833	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: SF Reefer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1834	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: Magnolia Tanker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1835	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: Re: John Foleys guessing games
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1836	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: Re: John Foleys guessing game
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1837	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: Re: One of a kind loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1838	From: John Foley	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: David and Steve
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1839	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: can send you information
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1840	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: Re: Shutdown!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1841	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: I need some help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1842	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: Re: I need some help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1843	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: Re: I need some help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1844	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: Re: I need some help/ONE MORE THING
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1845	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: Re: Shutdown!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1846	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: Re: I need some help/ONE MORE THING
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1847	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: NASG website
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1848	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Paul Yorke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1849	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: SnowBound
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1850	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: the 833
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1851	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: I need some help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1852	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: the 833
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1853	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: the 833
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1854	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: For Sale or Trade
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1855	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: One of a kind loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1856	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: the 833
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1857	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Re: American Flyer]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1858	From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Fwd: Re: Website - Comments and Suggestions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1859	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: American Flyer]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1860	From: steve roche	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Northern tender
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1861	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: repro 484 tender shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1862	From: JFR040436@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Switch Control Box
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1863	From: aaaron21@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: A F 484 Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1864	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: Switch Control Box
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1865	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: 720 vs 720A switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1866	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: S the 'S'ecret Scale?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1867	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: S the 'S'ecret Scale?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1868	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: 720 / 720A one more thing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1869	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: northern tender
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1870	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: A F 484 Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1871	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: 1946 Dodge Panel Truck in 1:64
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1872	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Schwan's Dodge truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1873	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 159
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1874	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: various and sundray
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1875	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: S-Trains Mo Stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1876	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Schwan's and Lledo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1877	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: S sources ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1878	From: Baule Family	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: remove
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1879	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: S the 'S'ecret Scale?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1880	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: S the 'S'ecret Scale?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1881	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: 720 / 720A one more thing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1882	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: northern tender
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1883	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: A F 484 Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1884	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: 1946 Dodge Panel Truck in 1:64
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1885	From: Joseph Langellotti	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Schwan's Dodge truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1886	From: Gf3897@aol.com	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 159
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1887	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: various and sundray
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1889	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Re: Magnifier for closework
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1890	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Ok.... Plasticville help.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1891	From: John Foley	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1892	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: AF 977 Caboose - How to open
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1893	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF 977 Caboose - How to open
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1894	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Name
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1895	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Re: various and sundray
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1896	From: Theinyo22@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Proto 64
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1897	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Re: Name
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1898	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF 977 Caboose - How to open
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1899	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Re: Proto 64
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1900	From: David L. Cooke	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: SCHWANS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1901	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: Proto 64
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1902	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: AF 977 Caboose - How to open
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1903	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: 977 caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1904	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: 977 caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1905	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: MORE 1/64 CARS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1906	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 161
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1907	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Schwan's and Lledo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1908	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: AF 977 Caboose - How to open
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1909	From: Mark Preman	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Train Show In Marietta, GA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1910	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: Train Show In Marietta, GA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1911	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: track gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1912	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: S sources ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1913	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Flyer in Canada
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1914	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's and Lledo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1915	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: Opening AF 977 Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1916	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Bill Banta
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1917	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Schwans Customer Service
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1918	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: AF S Link Coupler Trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1919	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: (Not Trains) grade school class project
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1920	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: 350 Royal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1921	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 162
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1922	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 162
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1923	From: John E. Dalton	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: UPDATE: S Gaugian index project
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1924	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Maine Show?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1925	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Proto-Finescale!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1926	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Proto:64 (for those vetting!!)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1927	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Schwan's Truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1928	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: eBay Strikes again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1929	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: chrome Rockets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1930	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1931	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: chrome Rockets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1932	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Lledo scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1933	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: chrome Rockets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1934	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Gilbert in Canada
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1935	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Digest Number 163 -Reply
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1936	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 162
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1937	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 162
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1938	From: John E. Dalton	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: UPDATE: S Gaugian index project
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1939	From: AFSTrains@aol.com	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Maine Show?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1940	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Proto-Finescale!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1941	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Proto:64 (for those vetting!!)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1942	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Schwan's Truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1943	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: eBay Strikes again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1945	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1946	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1947	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1948	From: Bill Banta	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1949	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1950	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: eBay (forum) Strikes again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1951	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 164
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1952	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: Whitney Museum
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1953	From: MARIA W BRYAN	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1954	From: Bill Banta	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay (forum) Strikes again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1955	From: J. Row	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1956	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Sorry
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1957	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Oops! (and advice request)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1958	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1959	From: FANN, ROBERT	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Auctions and other sales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1960	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1961	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: Oops! (and advice request)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1962	From: Heine, David L.	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Outside Frame Locomotives
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1963	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1964	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: Oops! (and advice request)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1965	From: Dave Silva	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: lionel coaling station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1966	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1967	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Something new
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1968	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1969	From: John Foley	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: NASG UP Boxcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1970	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: OFF TOPIC/could apply to us/FUNNY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1971	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: KayBee
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1972	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC/could apply to us/FUNNY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1973	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Need to know
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1974	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1975	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: Need to know
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1976	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: S gondola and boxcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1977	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: eeeeEEEE-BAYYyyyyy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1978	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Trains on the web
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1979	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Gilbert in Canada
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1980	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Re: curious george
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1981	From: RBaratta@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: 485
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1982	From: Dave Silva	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Lionel coaling station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1983	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Re: 485
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1984	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Needed to know
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1985	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Flyer bulkhead flat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1986	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/13/1999
Subject: Flyer transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1987	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 3/13/1999
Subject: A Question of scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1988	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 3/13/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1989	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/13/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1990	From: Brian Johns	Date: 3/13/1999
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1991	From: mlambert@venus.net	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: numeric codes for all flyer???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1992	From: Hilary Smith	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Using HO Power Chassis in S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1993	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: numeric codes for all flyer???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1994	From: michael prell	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1995	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1996	From: Allen Evans	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Double Decker Bus and Bedford Truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1997	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1998	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: Rubber stamps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 1999	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Using HO Power Chassis in S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2000	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: more power, "Ho, ho, ho."
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2001	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: more power, "Ho, ho, ho."
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2002	From: Jarcho	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: jacques o's accessory question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2003	From: Dave Heine	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: Using HO Power Chassis in S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2004	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Rubber Stamps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2005	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Sn42
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2006	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: Sn42
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2007	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Flyer transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2008	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: bulkhead flats
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2009	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: Wood reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2010	From: michael prell	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2011	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: 751 and 751A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2012	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: AF transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2013	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: 751 and 751A
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2014	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Reverse switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2015	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: af transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2016	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2017	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Digest Number 169
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2018	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Mark's mystery box of Reversing Swtchs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2019	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: more power, "Ho, ho, ho."
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2020	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Jeeps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2021	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: Sn42
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2022	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: 3'6"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2023	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: New Pages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2024	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 169
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2025	From: Lawrence Weeks	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Transformer handle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2026	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: Wood reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2027	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: The Schwan's truck deal.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2028	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Railmaster Exports
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2029	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: scale reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2030	From: PatnDave	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: scale reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2031	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Re: scale reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2032	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: our day
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2033	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: reefer sales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2034	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Re: Wood reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2035	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Re: reefer sales
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2036	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Re: 751
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2037	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 170
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2038	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: The Schwan's truck deal, part 2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2039	From: AC4400W@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Re: Scale reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2040	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Voltage Dropping Diodes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2041	From: Gerbasi	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: sales of refers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2042	From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: Gilbert in Canada
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2043	From: L Montgomery	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: (No Subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2044	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: Doug's Reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2045	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: St. Gilbert's Day
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2046	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: S scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2047	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: Reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2048	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: Vehicle Size
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2049	From: Dave Heine	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: Re: S scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2050	From: esquivel	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: saluda grade
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2051	From: AFSTrains@aol.com	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] Digest Number 172
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2052	From: Mike Vandvier	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Saluda Grade
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2053	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Saluda Pass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2054	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: s steamer for 7 year old
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2055	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Scale Drivers for Steamers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2056	From: Dave Heine	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: saluda grade
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2057	From: D Simon	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Help Need tender
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2058	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: steep grade
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2059	From: Boss31@aol.com	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 172 Ted Larson Quiz
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2060	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2061	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Schwan's truck, Part 3!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2062	From: The Velapoldi's	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: European Voltage, Lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2063	From: Jarcho	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Cambell's trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2064	From: Craig Stair	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2065	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: OT - sorta - Orgin of Standard Gauge?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2066	From: Jarcho	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: origins standard gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2067	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Fwd: SCHWANS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2068	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: OT - sorta - Orgin of Standard Gauge?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2069	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: European Voltage, Lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2070	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: Scale Drivers for Steamers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2071	From: Lance McKnight	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Roman Carts and European Voltage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2072	From: JHAUGH12	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Z4000
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2073	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: saluda grade
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2074	From: William H Trefts	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: A # for Schwan's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2075	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Schwan's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2076	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2077	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Re: Z4000
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2078	From: Allen Evans	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: SCHWANS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2079	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Last Schwans related note
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2080	From: Bill & Diane Wade, B.T.S.	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Status of Things at B.T.S.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2081	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Schwan's, CNW, CR log loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2082	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 173
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2083	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: AC&Y
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2084	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2085	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: L Letter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2086	From: Craig Stair	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Re: AC&Y
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2087	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Re: Ro and AF engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2088	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: So what's wrong with the 'South'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2089	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: So what's wrong with the 'South'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2090	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Alco Slugs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2091	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Euro Voltages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2092	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Re: So what's wrong with the 'South'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2093	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Re: So what's wrong with the 'South'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2094	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: WAHL hair clipper oil - attention ROGER HINDS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2095	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Wahl Oil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2096	From: Brian Johns	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: 26671 Track Trip Wiring?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2097	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: 23671 trip
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2098	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: New (to me) Ertl truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2099	From: John Foley	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2100	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2101	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Hamms....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2102	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Hamm's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2103	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2104	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Hamms Beer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2105	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Hamm's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2106	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: beer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2107	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Weekend Wrap
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2108	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Re: Hamm's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2109	From: h2oman@xxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Hi rail to scale tender conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2110	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Hi rail to scale tender conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2111	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Tender trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2112	From: Bill Clark	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Tender trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2113	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: S in L.A.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2114	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: S in L.A.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2115	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Hi rail to scale tender conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2116	From: Jim Hamlin	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Hamm's Beer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2117	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Some random musings on E-Bay and train shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2118	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 176
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2119	From: Jim & Vicky Patterson	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 176
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2120	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: 0-8-0 swithcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2121	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: vic bereskin's musings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2122	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Some random musings on E-Bay and train shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2123	From: jim	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: Re: Some random musings on E-Bay and train shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2124	From: Rodney.Booth@xxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2125	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: eBay and the Local train Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2126	From: Jarcho	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2127	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: more venting of steam
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2128	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: S-Gaugians
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2129	From: RBaratta@aol.com	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2130	From: Jim & Vicky Patterson	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: Re: eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2131	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: Re: eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2132	From: J. Row	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: A WARNING! Then a speech that needs to be read and spread!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2133	From: The Velapoldi's	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2134	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 178
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2135	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 178
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2136	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Re: e-bay etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2137	From: harrygbutler@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Re: Rochester (NY) Area S Gaugers March Newsletter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2138	From: A50flyer@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: eBAY PURCHASE: [S-Trains] Number 178
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2139	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: More on eBay and seller's reputations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2140	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Manufacturers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2141	From: Train Collectors Association	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Fwd: American flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2142	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: detailing AM units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2143	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: What's up with "big L"??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2144	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: The Yorke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2145	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Re: What's up with "big L"??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2146	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Warning-"Scaler comment"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2147	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: S/Sn3 Modeling Guide
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2148	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Hamm's and Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2149	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Hobby Surplus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2150	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: Hobby Surplus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2151	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: AC locos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2152	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: detailing AM units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2153	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: S/Sn3 Modeling Guide
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2154	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] eBay and the Local train Shows]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2155	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2156	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: AC locos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2157	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] eBay and the Local train Shows]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2158	From: whutton	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Minneapolis area train sites
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2159	From: PatnDave	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: S/Sn3 Modeling Guide
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2160	From: Cheri221@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Train Shows, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2161	From: Reis'	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: SeattleTrain Shows, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2162	From: Raymond Abbott	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: Net Nanny
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2163	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Burlington Roundhouse
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2164	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: MPLS Trip
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2165	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Big diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2166	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: AM detailing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2167	From: Bill Banta	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Re: Big diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2168	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Re: Big diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2169	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Choices
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2170	From: Thompson, Keith	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Winross Truck Specials
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2171	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 179
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2172	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Seaboard coaler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2173	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Re: Big diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2174	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: E-Bay: Swap Meet Implications
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2175	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Big Engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2176	From: Bill & Diane Wade, B.T.S.	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: Big Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2177	From: Bill & Diane Wade, B.T.S.	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: AM Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2178	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Checking in and checking out
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2179	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: Scenery Unlimited AT&SF caboose kit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2180	From: The Velapoldi's	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Sn3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2181	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: 2-6-6-6 ALLEGHANY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2182	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: MODULE LAYOUT SKIRTING?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2183	From: Dave Heine	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: Sn3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2184	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: E-Bay: Swap Meet Implications
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2185	From: BENPERRYJR@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: WALP SIDES; FIRST NAT'L STORE BELLOWS FALLS COOP CREAMERY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2186	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: MODULE LAYOUT SKIRTING?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2187	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Flame retardant fabric.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2188	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2189	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: E-Bay: Swap Meet Implications
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2190	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Topeka, Kansas meet.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2191	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: Seaboard coaler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2192	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Fire "Proofing"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2193	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Keeping the crooks at Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2194	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: BIg Engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2195	From: Bill Banta	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: Keeping the crooks at Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2196	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: Keeping the crooks at Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2197	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Christmas trees
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2198	From: esquivel	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: e-bay etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2199	From: Bill Banta	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: more on junk....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2200	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: Keeping the crooks at Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2201	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Hamm's Beer (and Truck) finale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2202	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: Fireproofing skirts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2203	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: WALP SIDES; FIRST NAT'L STORE BELLOWS FALLS COOP CREAMERY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2204	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2205	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: ????????????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2206	From: michael prell	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Trading Cards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2207	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: one L of a crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2208	From: michael prell	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: Trading Cards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2209	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: Trading Cards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2210	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: undoing a KC conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2211	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: NON FLAMMABLE?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2212	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: NON FLAMMABLE?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2213	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: undoing a KC conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2214	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: re Trading Cards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2215	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: Fireproofing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2216	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: Fireproofing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2217	From: Boul, Lawrence	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Semaphore Signals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2218	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: 30's Ford PU
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2219	From: michael prell	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: RIDING THE RAILS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2220	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: link couplers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2221	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Kelvin's Caboose & Conrail (Att: MPSM)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2222	From: Brian Johns	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Brittle plastic and expensive signals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2223	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: undoing a KC conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2224	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: Brittle plastic and expensive signals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2225	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Digest Number 184
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2226	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Body mounting screw post repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2227	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Brian's Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2228	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: RIDING THE RAILS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2229	From: Dave Silva	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: AF transformer--40 watt
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2230	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: FW: List Server Error
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2231	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: JB Weld
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2232	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Brittle plastic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2233	From: Neil Trump	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: 583 magnetic coil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2234	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: LC replacment.2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2235	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: repairs, and Xng Signal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2236	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: single sheath boxcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2237	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: LC replacement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2238	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: LC replacment.2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2239	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: LC rep.2/CLUB TOOL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2240	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Trading cards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2241	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2242	From: Allen Evans	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2243	From: Jarcho	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2244	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: one question and one trick
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2245	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Track crossing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2246	From: Neil Trump	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: 583 magnetic coil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2247	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: one question and one trick
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2248	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Seaboard Coaler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2249	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Track crossing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2250	From: Dave Silva	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Model 1 1/2 45 watt transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2251	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Trading Cards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2252	From: Rodney.Booth@xxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: trading cards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2253	From: John Foley	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Central Hobby Supply
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2254	From: BENPERRYJR@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Trading Cards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2255	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Pullman plans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2256	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2257	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: trading cards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2258	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: single sheath boxcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2259	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2260	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Hobos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2261	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Brakemans Riveter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2262	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Some news
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2263	From: Scott Brown	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 185
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2264	From: John Foley	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Central Hobby Supply
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2265	From: Brian Johns	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Brittle Plastic answers!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2266	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 185
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2267	From: Brian Johns	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Plasticville
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2268	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: contact cleaners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2269	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Motor Cleaners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2270	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Quartering and aligning wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2271	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Lectra Motive
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2272	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: KC back to LC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2273	From: John Foley	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Central Hobby Supply
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2274	From: michael prell	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Quartering and aligning wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2275	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: s-onelist sign up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2276	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Motor Cleaners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2277	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Quartering and aligning wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2278	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: s-onelist sign up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2279	From: William H Trefts	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: CRC electric motor cleaner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2280	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: CRC electric motor cleaner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2281	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Pullman plans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2282	From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Pullman plans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2284	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Joining the list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2285	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Cleaning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2286	From: James Wysopal	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert prewar catalogs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2287	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Trading Cards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2288	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Cleaning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2289	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: John Foley's Central Hobby Supply note
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2290	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2291	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: York and PortLines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2292	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert prewar catalogs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2293	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Lectra Motive
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2294	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: CRC electric motor cleaner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2295	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Lectra Motive (humor warning!)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2296	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: cleaners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2297	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert prewar catalogs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2298	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Re: cleaners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2299	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: All Aboard Snow Panels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2300	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Parts Cleaners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2301	From: J. Row	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Re: Parts Cleaners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2302	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: More Scrap Book
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2303	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Cleaners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2304	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Jubilation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2305	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 4/3/1999
Subject: Digest Number 188
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2306	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 4/3/1999
Subject: Contact cleaner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2307	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/3/1999
Subject: Re: Pullman plans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2308	From: Gale Hall	Date: 4/3/1999
Subject: Greg's question about Greenbrier Ad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2309	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Wheel Sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2310	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: Re: The showcase Line wheel sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2311	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: Re: Wheel Sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2312	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: PRR H-34
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2313	From: M. McConnell	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: Summary of Cleaners and Tips
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2314	From: jim	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: kitbashing diecast steam engine shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2315	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Greenbrier add]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2316	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: Re: kitbashing diecast steam engine shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2317	From: jim	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Searching For...]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2318	From: jim	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Need people to exhibit layout....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2319	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 184
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2320	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: What about Isopropyl alcohol
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2321	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: 12B red light
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2322	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 189
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2323	From: Dennis Back	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Re: 12B red light
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2324	From: Mark Preman	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains for Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2325	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Re: #189
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2326	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Re: 12B red light
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2327	From: michael prell	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Great Train Program on Public Television
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2328	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Usernet searches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2329	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: power units for PA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2330	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Museum
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2331	From: CliffGarz@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Circus Cut-outs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2332	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Red light, green light
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2333	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Re: Circus Cut-outs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2334	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2335	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2336	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: 12B
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2337	From: John Foley	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: New Building Kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2338	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Re: What about Isopropyl alcohol
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2339	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: S Scale Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2340	From: Dave Heine	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Re: 12B
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2341	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Isopropyl alcohol
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2342	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Iso . . .propanol
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2343	From: CliffGarz@aol.com	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF circus cutouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2344	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Circus Cut-outs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2345	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2346	From: Heine, David L.	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: S Scale Passenger Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2347	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2348	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2349	From: John Foley	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Train Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2350	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2351	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Cleaners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2352	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: numbers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2353	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2354	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Iso . . .propanol
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2355	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: S Helper SW-9 handrails, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2356	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Alcohol
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2357	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: a newcomer's thoughts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2358	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: SW 9 handrails
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2359	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Red Light, Green Light . . . EZ as 1-2-3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2360	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Cleaning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2361	From: Dennis Back	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Great new 'S' book
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2362	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Dakota Southern downsizing.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2363	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Re: Great new 'S' book
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2364	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Easy bulb removal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2365	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Re: Easy bulb removal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2366	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: bulbs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2367	From: Joe Visintine	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: S scale decals in GM&O
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2368	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Re: Red Light, Green Light . . . EZ as 1-2-3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2369	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: How many bulb-changers does it take . . .
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2370	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Famous American Flyer Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2371	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Adhesive Cleaners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2372	From: Gale Hall	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: whoa!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2373	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Re: whoa!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2374	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: command control and american flyer?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2375	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: S Spree in Dayton
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2376	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: S Spree Revisited
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2377	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Re: Famous American Flyer Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2378	From: FANN, ROBERT	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Repeat Call for Modules
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2379	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Paul Nelson's book
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2380	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Bachman Conversions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2381	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: converting the new Bachmann On30 trainsets to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2382	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/10/1999
Subject: Re: Whoa!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2383	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Re: S scale decals in GM&O
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2384	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/10/1999
Subject: NFld Rly S Scale Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2385	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/10/1999
Subject: Back on
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2386	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 4/10/1999
Subject: Re: Back on
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2387	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/10/1999
Subject: Re: Bachman Conversions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2388	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 4/10/1999
Subject: Central Hobby Supply
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2389	From: Hilary Smith	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Stripping Paint from Lionel CR 9035
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2390	From: PatnDave	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Sunrise Enterprises
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2391	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Akron/Dover Ohio Action April 16 to 18
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2392	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: Sunrise Enterprises
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2393	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Sunrise Enterprises
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2394	From: Rick Carlsen	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Logging trucks??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2395	From: Dave Heine	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: Logging trucks??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2396	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: Sunrise Enterprises
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2397	From: PatnDave	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: S scale items For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2398	From: John Foley	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: N.J. International
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2399	From: david s garber	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2400	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: New Building Kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2401	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: Thinning Brass collection
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2402	From: h2oman@redshift.com	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: I need the shaft !
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2403	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Spring Spree
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2404	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Ron Richards please
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2405	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: Sunrise Enterprises
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2406	From: PatnDave	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Sunrise
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2407	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: 1449 bulbs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2408	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: New ACG books
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2409	From: Bill Banta	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: I need the shaft !
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2410	From: Bill Banta	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: New Building Kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2411	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Sunrise Enterprises
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2412	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: NFld Rly S Scale Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2413	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2414	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Re: Spring Spree
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2415	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: AMB kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2416	From: softmoods@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: SUNRISE ENTERPRISES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2417	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: The red light is lit.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2418	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: New AF Parts List Available
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2419	From: John Foley	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: NJ's Address's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2420	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: NJ International
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2421	From: RBaratta@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Flyer HO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2422	From: Michael Greene	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Fwd: Re: S Scale Kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2423	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Re: Spring Spree
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2424	From: John Foley	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Re: Web Site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2425	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Re: Armatures for can motor conversions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2426	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Re: NJ International
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2427	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Sunset detailing parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2428	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Re: SunRISE detailing parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2429	From: Alan & Sherry Bennett	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Gilbert's Famous AF Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2430	From: Scott Brown	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 197
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2431	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: numbers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2432	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: Re: numbers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2433	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: Attention Pikemaster Fans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2434	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: custom decals/transfers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2435	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: custom decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2436	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: Re: SunRISE detailing parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2437	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: Sunrise and Detail Associates exposure...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2438	From: jim	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: custom decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2439	From: PatnDave	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Sunrise/Detail Associates
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2440	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Sunrise parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2441	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: decals/transfers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2442	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Re: decals/transfers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2443	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Re: SunRISE detailing parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2444	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Proto 64
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2445	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: detail parts,again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2446	From: A50flyer@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer Track for sale/trade
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2447	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Jacques' crossing question (3/29)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2448	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: New Bookstore
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2449	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: ELECTION DAY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2450	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Re: Keith's comment on parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2451	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Re: Previous post
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2452	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Walther and parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2453	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: It's not just Walthers...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2454	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Walthers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2455	From: Gale Hall	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Waiting for arrival
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2456	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Re: SunRISE detailing parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2457	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: mixing it up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2458	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Re: mixing it up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2459	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: MR/Walthers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2460	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Re: Cleaners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2461	From: Bill Banta	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Re: MR/Walthers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2462	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: the mind flies
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2463	From: J. Row	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Walthers Info Add On
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2464	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: American Scientist article
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2465	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Re: MR/Walthers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2466	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: a new member
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2467	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Personal checks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2468	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Walthers' owner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2469	From: Tomlinson, John D	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Re: Personal checks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2470	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: SW1000/SW1500
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2471	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Detail Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2472	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: That damnable Milwaukee Axis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2473	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Milwaukee axis to grind
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2474	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: RE Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2475	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Mixing it up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2476	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Can't we all get along?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2477	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: MIX IT UP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2478	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Fwd: detail parts,again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2479	From: John Foley	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Manufacturers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2480	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Re: SW1000/SW1500
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2481	From: L Montgomery	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Another Market for S Scale Detail Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2482	From: PatnDave	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Fw: S scale detailing parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2483	From: Bill Banta	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Re: Milwaukee axis to grind
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2484	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Re: mixing it up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2485	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Publicity
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2486	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 4/17/1999
Subject: Re: Publicity
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2487	From: Chasbo86@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/17/1999
Subject: info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2488	From: John Foley	Date: 4/17/1999
Subject: S Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2489	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 4/17/1999
Subject: Weekend Report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2490	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/17/1999
Subject: Racing Champions buys ERTL -- No April Fooling!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2491	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/17/1999
Subject: Royal Blue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2492	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: I just can't see it
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2493	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: I just can't see it
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2494	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: A REAL Mix-Up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2495	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2496	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2497	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue Colors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2498	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: New S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2499	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2500	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue Colors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2501	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue Colors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2502	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Web Address
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2503	From: Don Abrams	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Mixing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2504	From: Gale Hall	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: B&O 5304
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2505	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Out of the Closet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2506	From: Donald E. Munsey, Jr.	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Building Easyville
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2507	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: B&O 5304
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2508	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Blue, Blue, Blue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2509	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Royal Blue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2510	From: michael prell	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Spiral Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2511	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: A York report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2512	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: [Fwd: JPEG image 640x480 pixels]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2513	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: A York report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2514	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Spiral Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2515	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Royal Blue pic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2516	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: the economy & York
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2517	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: York report - typo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2518	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: A York report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2519	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: AF with others, sure.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2520	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: ACG AF Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2521	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Royal Blue Note or Two
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2522	From: Jarcho	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2523	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2524	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: A York report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2525	From: david s garber	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: re-subscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2526	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2527	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2528	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2529	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2530	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2531	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Auto Sketch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2532	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2533	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: York
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2534	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Royal Blue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2535	From: J. Row	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2536	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: Spiral Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2537	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: AF Streamline History
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2538	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2539	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: S-Gaugian distribution & railfan toy train guys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2540	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: the eBay experience
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2541	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2542	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian distribution & railfan toy train guys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2543	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: railfan toy train guys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2544	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2545	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: E-Gad, it's another E-Bay post!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2546	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: E-Gad, it's another E-Bay post!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2547	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: SW1500
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2548	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Railmaster Exports G8
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2549	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: links?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2550	From: RKuep44202@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: TERMINAL HOBBY SHOP SPRING SALE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2551	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: E-Gad, it's another E-Bay post!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2552	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2553	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Corprate names use, was: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2554	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2555	From: Alan Evans	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: NASG Members: Your Vote Counts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2556	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Copyrights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2557	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: AF diesel chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2558	From: J. Row	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: the eBay experience
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2559	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: bean counters,etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2560	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: bean counters,etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2561	From: J. Row	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: bean counters,etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2562	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2563	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: LTI parts help needed!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2564	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: SW 1500 comments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2565	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Magazines/organizations?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2566	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: AF crew names?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2567	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: AF crew names?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2568	From: Dennis Back	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: AF crew names?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2569	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2570	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: AF crew names?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2571	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2572	From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: AF crew names?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2573	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: cattle carpet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2574	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: string 'em up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2575	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: string 'em up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2576	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: Diesel chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2577	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: Pass car chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2578	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: S orgs and pubs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2579	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: accessory string
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2580	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: keeping the cars on the track.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2581	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: keeping the cars on the track.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2582	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: keeping the cars on the track. corrected
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2583	From: Chasbo86@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: 18006 engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2584	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: String
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2585	From: jim	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Train clubs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2586	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: More new pages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2587	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: non-S clubs, and collections
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2588	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Walthers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2589	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: Walthers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2590	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: cattle carpet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2591	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: Walthers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2592	From: ChooChoo64@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2593	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: More new pages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2594	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Organizations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2595	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: AF SALE!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2596	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: SHS cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2597	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: Great Lakes area events?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2598	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Ohio trains shows in May
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2599	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: Keeping cars on the track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2600	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: Keeping cars on the track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2601	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Wanted: gargraves S-gauge track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2602	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: bean counters,etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2603	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: bean counters,etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2604	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: SD45
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2605	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Unsubscibe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2606	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: More pikemaster trivia
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2607	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: S-Spree in Dayton
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2608	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: SWM SD45
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2609	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: Re: More new pages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2610	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: Re: S-Spree in Dayton
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2611	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: Re: SWM SD45
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2612	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 208
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2613	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: American Models RS-3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2614	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: Lionel command control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2615	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: Re: American Models RS-3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2616	From: michael prell	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2617	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel CC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2618	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: ircle and S-trains Sunday Chats
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2619	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: GE 25 Ton and GE 70 Ton
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2620	From: John Foley	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: Frank Titman's Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2621	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel CC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2622	From: AC4400W@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: SWM SD45-Conrail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2623	From: Allen Evans	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2624	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: American Models RS-3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2625	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: a newbie's eBay experience
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2626	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: painting AF PAs in CN colors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2627	From: paul1049	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2628	From: RBaratta@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2629	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: SWM SD45-Conrail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2630	From: jim	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Railmaster Exports GE 25 Ton Endcab
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2631	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2632	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2633	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: more info on SD45
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2634	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2635	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2636	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: TMCC and Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2637	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: apologies
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2638	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2639	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2640	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2641	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2642	From: Bill Banta	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2643	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2644	From: Neil Trump	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Off topic stealing credit!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2645	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Ed Loizeaux, Status of Heart Surgery
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2646	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2647	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2648	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2649	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2650	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: GE 25 Ton and GE 70 Ton
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2651	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2652	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2653	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2654	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2655	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2656	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2657	From: jim@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2658	From: Richard.Spritz@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 211
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2659	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2660	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2661	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2662	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2663	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 211
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2664	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2665	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2666	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: S Scale origins
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2667	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2668	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: even more on the SD45
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2669	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2670	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: DOs and DONTs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2671	From: JSBMLB@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2672	From: Dave Heine	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: AF Steam Locomotive Help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2673	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: SW1500 Good news / bad news
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2674	From: jim@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: S Scale origins
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2675	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2676	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2677	From: Brian Johns	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: K-Line 27" radius AF track?!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2678	From: JFR040436@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Ceramic Village
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2679	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: K-Line 27" radius AF track?!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2680	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 212 K-Line AF track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2681	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 212 K-Line AF track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2682	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 212 K-Line AF track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2683	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 212 K-Line AF track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2684	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2685	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2686	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re Observation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2687	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 212 K-Line AF track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2688	From: Bill Banta	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2689	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Radius and Diameter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2690	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2691	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: AF crew names
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2692	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: no tin plate, no toys, only scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2693	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Hello Hudson
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2694	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: elevations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2695	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2696	From: JSBMLB@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2697	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2698	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: BL2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2699	From: Train Collectors Association	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2700	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Re Observation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2701	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: even more on the SD45
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2702	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2703	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2704	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Hudson Toy Train & Hobby
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2705	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2706	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Re Observation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2707	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2708	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Baseball?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2709	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 212 K-Line AF track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2710	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2711	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: AF crew names
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2712	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2713	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2714	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Radius and diameter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2715	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: EP5's and SD45's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2716	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: EP5's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2717	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: EP5's and SD45's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2718	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2719	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Where are the NEW fun accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2720	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: The Consequences of E-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2721	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: BL2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2722	From: J. Row	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: The Consequences of E-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2723	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: BL2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2724	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 214
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2725	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Where are the NEW fun accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2726	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: The Consequences of E-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2727	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2728	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Where are the NEW fun accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2729	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Turntable
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2730	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: BL2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2731	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: FS : AM USRA Pacific
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2732	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: The Consequences of E-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2733	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Spring S Spree
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2734	From: mark.p.baker@xx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2735	From: mark.p.baker@xx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2736	From: mark.p.baker@xx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2737	From: mark.p.baker@xx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: FW: [Sn3] Re: 3/16" "S"cale Railroading magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2738	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: dc operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2739	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: dc operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2740	From: Bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: S Helper SW-9 parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2741	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2742	From: Dave Heine	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2743	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: FW: [Sn3] Re: 3/16" "S"cale Railroading magazine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2744	From: MILAYMAN@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Smithsonian, May 1999
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2745	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: More Consequences of E-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2746	From: Neil Trump	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2747	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2748	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Motor vehicle wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2749	From: James Wysopal	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: ebay musings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2750	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Steam Depot
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2751	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: S Helper SW-9 parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2752	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: Steam Depot
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2753	From: CliffGarz@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 216
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2754	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: Motor vehicle wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2755	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 216
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2756	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: High Prices
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2757	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: prices
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2758	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: High Prices
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2759	From: CliffGarz@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2760	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: eBay Hint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2761	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Hint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2762	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Hint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2763	From: jim	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: tires and wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2764	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: prices
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2765	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: prices
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2766	From: Dennis Back	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: O.T./or is it? KID'S $2.8M EBAY SPREE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2767	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2768	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert article
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2769	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Paint Stripping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2770	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2771	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2772	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: BL2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2773	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2774	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Prices et al.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2775	From: Boul, Lawrence	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Benny Hill aka Ernie - driver of the fastest milkcart in the west .
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2776	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2777	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: enter the eBay fray
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2778	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Selling/buying eBay & elsewhere
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2779	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Steam Depot
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2780	From: Allen Evans	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2781	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: True Confessions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2782	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Split chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2783	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2784	From: michael prell	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2785	From: michael prell	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: prices
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2786	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: enter the eBay fray
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2787	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: True Confessions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2788	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: Split chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2789	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: Split chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2790	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: English S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2791	From: Don Abrams	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Ebay/620 Gondolas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2792	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: pies are round
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2793	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: new repros of old favorites
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2794	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 214
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2795	From: david s garber	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: repro gabe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2796	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: shared space pix
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2797	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: auction in PA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2798	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: 770 baggage loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2799	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: What's E-bay?????????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2800	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: Re: 770 baggage loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2801	From: Train Collectors Association	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: Re: auction in PA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2802	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: Re: auction in PA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2803	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: 770 loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2804	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2805	From: Gerbasi	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: special issue cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2806	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: Endless Reposts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2807	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: Auction in PA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2808	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: 770 half way
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2809	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: TCA Convention 2000
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2810	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: National TCA; Gabe Repros
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2811	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: TCA 2001 in Chattanooga
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2812	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: References to digest numbers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2813	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: NASG car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2814	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: A WEEK OF POSTINGS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2815	From: Boul, Lawrence	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: Split Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2816	From: Don Abrams	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Repro Gabe Kit?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2817	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: Spree
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2818	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: Split Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2819	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: my adventure on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2820	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Bells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2821	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Sunrise Enterprise Bells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2822	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Painting help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2823	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: S in the winners circle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2824	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: Painting help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2825	From: John Foley	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: 99 S spree
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2826	From: Bill Porter	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Brake Fluid and Plastics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2827	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: paint removal-safe for plastic and you
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2828	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: [Fwd: failure notice]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2829	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: Prices et al.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2830	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: 99 S spree
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2831	From: Donald E. Munsey, Jr.	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Tie Treatment Plants
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2832	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: PS-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2833	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: Painting help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2834	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Tie Treatment Plants
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2835	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: New webpage stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2836	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: 1890's Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2837	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 220
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2838	From: Mark Preman	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale-May List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2839	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Light in whistling billboard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2840	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Did someone say Milwaukee?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2841	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: What's in the Greenburg guide to AF Volume three?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2842	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Light in whistling billboard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2843	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 211
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2844	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: overhead
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2845	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Light in whistling billboard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2846	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: my wish list, M+StP RR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2847	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Jos. Lucas & Sons, Ltd.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2848	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Paint Stripping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2849	From: Jarcho	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: psint strippers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2850	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2851	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: 99 S spree
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2852	From: Bill Porter	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2853	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: paint removal-safe for plastic and you
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2854	From: Neil Trump	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Lucas & Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2855	From: Neil Trump	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Warm beer in England
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2856	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Thank You
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2857	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2858	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Warm beer in England
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2859	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Fixed Scrapbook
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2860	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: 99 S spree
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2861	From: Richard Snook	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: S Refreshments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2862	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: 99 S spree ACTUALLY frame changes for SWs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2863	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: 99 S spree ACTUALLY frame changes for SWs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2864	From: Gerbasi	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 220
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2865	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2866	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Light in whistling billboard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2867	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: 1890's Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2868	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: The Stripper!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2869	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Organizations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2870	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Fw: S-Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2871	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] PS-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2872	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: What's in the Greenburg guide to AF Volume three?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2873	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: S-scale Airplanes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2874	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: 1890's Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2875	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Greenburg vol III
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2876	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: Light in whistling billboard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2877	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Paint stripping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2878	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: Scott Holm and 1/64 aircraft
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2879	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Organizations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2880	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: S-scale Airplanes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2881	From: jdoran	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: automatic switching
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2882	From: Scott Brown	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: 1890's Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2883	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: S-scale Airplanes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2884	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Gabe and other Musings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2885	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: With regrets for the outburst
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2886	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: automatic switching
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2887	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: With regrets for the outburst
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2888	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: automatic switching
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2889	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 223...."S-Scale Airplanes"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2890	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Planes, Trains and Automobiles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2891	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Ordinary Hoppers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2892	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: PS-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2893	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: 1890's train - -Franklin mods
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2894	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Ordinary Hoppers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2895	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2896	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Last Call
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2897	From: jdoran	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: auto switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2898	From: kelvin white	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: With regrets for the outburst
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2899	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: auto switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2900	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Chrome Stripping
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2901	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: auto switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2902	From: Boul, Lawrence	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Cheep (sic) Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2903	From: jdoran	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Scott's reply to auto switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2904	From: Dennis Back	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Self-turn-off after throw Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2905	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2906	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Tie Plants and Bells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2907	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Screen Saver
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2908	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2909	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: With regrets for the outburst
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2910	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Tie Plants and Bells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2911	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: alan eisenhauer:chrome removal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2912	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: alan eisenhauer:chrome removal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2913	From: Brian Johns	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: K-Line AF track curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2914	From: Bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: stripping chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2915	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: 4x8 layout CONTEST
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2916	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: stripping chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2917	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Another Chrome Removal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2918	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: K-Line AF track curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2919	From: J. Row	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: "Chrome" Is Not Chrome!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2920	From: Neil Trump	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: 785 coal loader parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2921	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: "Chrome" Is Not Chrome!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2922	From: John Foley	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Del-Aire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2923	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: Stripping chrome, & rechroming
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2924	From: Dave Heine	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: Del-Aire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2925	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: A.F. Database Application
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2926	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: F-unit bells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2927	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: a little more on plasticville airport,and 1/72 vintage a/c
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2928	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: F unit bells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2929	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Layout contest / Volunteers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2930	From: Rodney.Booth@xxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Delaire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2931	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: train watching
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2932	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Re: Coal loader parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2933	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Delaire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2934	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fw: some good thoughts]]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2935	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Re: Delaire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2936	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Re: Delaire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2937	From: Dave Heine	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Re: Delaire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2938	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Thanks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2939	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2940	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Seaboard coaler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2941	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2942	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2943	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Modern S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2944	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: Modern S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2945	From: jdoran	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: auto switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2946	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Layout Contest Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2947	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: auto switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2948	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: auto switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2949	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: auto switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2950	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2951	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2952	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: Modern S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2953	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: Modern S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2954	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Delaire Air Pistons
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2955	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: automatic circuits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2956	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: modern trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2957	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2958	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: modern trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2959	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: A BLAST FROM THE PAST
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2960	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Las Vegas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2961	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: auto switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2962	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2963	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Time Warp
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2964	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: Time Warp
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2965	From: kelvin white	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: SD50/60s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2966	From: jdoran	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Thanks for the help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2967	From: Boul, Lawrence	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: POed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2968	From: Gerbasi	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: MDT and RBBX
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2969	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: ALL THE FUSS!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2970	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2971	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: general comments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2972	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: ALL THE FUSS!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2973	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2974	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: MDT and RBBX
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2975	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: SD50/60s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2976	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: general comments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2977	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: MPSM BRASS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2978	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: 4x8 payout contest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2979	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: 4x8/5x9 layout contest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2980	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Pleasant Surprise
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2981	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Nostalgia for today
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2982	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: B.T.S. Spring Cleaning Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2983	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: '46 Dodge Panel truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2984	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: Pleasant Surprise
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2985	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: 4x8 payout contest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2986	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2987	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] MPSM BRASS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2988	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2989	From: John Foley	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: SSL&S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2990	From: wadepub@xx.xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] MPSM BRASS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2991	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2992	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Air Supply
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2993	From: Gale Hall	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: freon cylinders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2994	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2995	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: lettering diagram
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2996	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: News stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2997	From: Joe Visintine	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: (Fwd) Re: [S-Trains] [Proto64] MPSM BRASS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2998	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: resin kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 2999	From: Donald E. Munsey, Jr.	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Modern Equipment (sorta) Swap
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3000	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: modern freight car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3001	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: NON-INFORMED ON THIS SUBJECT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3002	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: NON-INFORMED ON THIS SUBJECT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3003	From: Pete Ervin	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Missouri Pacific stockyard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3004	From: Richard.Spritz@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: 4x8 payout contest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3005	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: Missouri Pacific stockyard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3006	From: Dalessandro, David L TL13C	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Monster Steam Engines are needed!!!Brass or other material.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3007	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Chrome Removal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3008	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: Monster Steam Engines are needed!!!Brass or other
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3009	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3010	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Digest #230...Richard Karnes "Time Warp"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3011	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] MPSM BRASS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3012	From: S Stokrocki	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Modern Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3013	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: Tank-Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3014	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3015	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Protocol for Sale List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3016	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: DCC and AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3017	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: Protocol for Sale List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3018	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: Modern Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3019	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: comprehensive guide to DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3020	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: Modern Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3021	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: modern freight car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3022	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: 3rd Dash 9s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3023	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: time warps, third rail, and art deco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3024	From: John Foley	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3025	From: John Foley	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3026	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 5/12/1999
Subject: Re: NON-INFORMED.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3028	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/12/1999
Subject: Re: NON-INFORMED.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3029	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 5/12/1999
Subject: V&T Shops
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3030	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/13/1999
Subject: Re: Resin Kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3031	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/13/1999
Subject: Re: :Resin Kits and Locomotive Workshop
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3032	From: kelvin white	Date: 5/12/1999
Subject: Re: Modern Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3033	From: L Montgomery	Date: 5/13/1999
Subject: Train Watching in Baltimore Area
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3034	From: Mark Preman	Date: 5/13/1999
Subject: Mid-Month Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3035	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/13/1999
Subject: Re: Modern Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3036	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/13/1999
Subject: Re: Rex flat cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3037	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/14/1999
Subject: DC area train things
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3038	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 5/14/1999
Subject: PRR N-8 Decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3039	From: John Foley	Date: 5/14/1999
Subject: S-Fest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3040	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 5/14/1999
Subject: Blessed are the flexible as they will not be bent out of shape
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3041	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: MPSM Project Update (was MPSM BRASS)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3042	From: Lance McKnight	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 236
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3043	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: resin kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3044	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: #654 red door
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3045	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] MPSM Project Update (was MPSM BRASS)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3046	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: TankTrain
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3047	From: L Montgomery	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Schwanns Truck Offer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3048	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: PRR N-8 Decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3049	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: Burlington reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3050	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Rex Lo-Side Gon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3051	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: 654 doors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3052	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: MPSG modern brass poll
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3053	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: MPSG modern brass poll
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3054	From: jdoran	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: auto switch-success I think
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3055	From: Gf3897@aol.com	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: Painting by the numbers...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3056	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Freight Car "Assignments"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3057	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: a brass NKP Berk?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3058	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: a brass NKP Berk?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3059	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Schwan's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3060	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Rex Lo-Side Gon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3061	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: MPSM Brass (att: Dave Bailey)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3062	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: footprints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3063	From: Scott Brown	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 238
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3064	From: MILAYMAN@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: 21813 Baldwin Switcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3065	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 238
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3066	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: chrome plating
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3067	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Mississippi River Backdrop Painting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3068	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Footprints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3069	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Questions/answers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3070	From: JTMGoBlue@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: AF Transformer Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3071	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: AF Transformer Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3072	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: GE44T/25T
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3073	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 236
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3074	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: flyer gone, brass here
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3075	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: flyer gone, brass here
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3076	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: AC/DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3077	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: MPSG FLASH!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3078	From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Southwind SD 45
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3079	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: AC/DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3080	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: daunting diesel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3081	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: dimensions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3082	From: Bill Clark	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: AC/DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3083	From: Randy Reynolds	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Gabe restoration
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3084	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: October York Meet?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3085	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: AF 336 Tender Steps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3086	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: AC/DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3087	From: Pete Ervin	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Rocket Launcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3088	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3089	From: John Foley	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3090	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: chrome
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3091	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: river raisin models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3092	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: river raisin models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3093	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Hotel Room Reservations for the NASG National Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3094	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Hotel Room Reservations for the NASG National Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3095	From: L Montgomery	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Resin Street Lights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3096	From: Richard.Spritz@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 240
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3097	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: York
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3098	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: AC/DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3099	From: John Foley	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: York meet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3100	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: rocket launcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3101	From: Richard Snook	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Streetlights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3102	From: Joe Visintine	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Whistel Controller
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3103	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: AC vs. DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3104	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs. DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3105	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs. DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3106	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: AC/DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3107	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: Rocket Launcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3108	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: hi-rail vs scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3109	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3110	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Third Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3111	From: Bill Clark	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs. DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3112	From: Bill Clark	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3113	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs. DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3114	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs. DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3115	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3116	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: Whistel Controller
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3117	From: Richard L. Kroll	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Large Scale Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3118	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: scale vs. hi-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3119	From: Bill Clark	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: scale vs. hi-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3120	From: jdoran	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: third rail, 785 footprint, York dates and success
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3121	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: scale vs. hi-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3122	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Doin' S YOUR way! WAS: scale vs. hi-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3123	From: L Montgomery	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Streetlights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3124	From: Tomlinson, John D	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: Streetlights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3125	From: Bill Porter	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Scale and Tin Plate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3126	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: Large Scale Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3127	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Closed frog swtich source
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3128	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Closed frog switch source
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3129	From: Bill Clark	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Closed frog switch source
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3130	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Closed frog switch
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3131	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Closed frog switch source
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3132	From: Dalessandro, David L TL13C	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Hi-Rail vs Scale not a problem having both!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3133	From: Dalessandro, David L TL13C	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Penn Central
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3134	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Semaphore screw
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3135	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Closed Frog Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3136	From: Allen Evans	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Live Steam Model Running With Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3137	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3138	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Closed Frog Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3139	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Penn Central
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3140	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Does your RR need a Laser Car?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3141	From: david s garber	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: 761 screw#
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3142	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Live Steam Model Running With Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3143	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3144	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3145	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: B&O Royal Blue Drawings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3146	From: COALDRAG@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Take off List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3147	From: Joe Visintine	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: 334DC whistle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3148	From: Joe Visintine	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: 334DC whistle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3149	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: 334DC whistle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3150	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Sunset Models Pioneer Zephyr and Flying Yankee
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3151	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3152	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3153	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Sunset Models Pioneer Zephyr and Flying Yankee
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3154	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: 334DC Whistle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3155	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3156	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Sunset Models Pioneer Zephyr and Flying Yankee
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3157	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3158	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Answer the questions or we're going to have to gag you
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3159	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Re: Answer the questions or we're going to have to gag you
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3160	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Re: Answer the questions or we're going to have to gag you
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3161	From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: AF by Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3162	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: S-DesignS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3163	From: Gerbasi	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Lionel AF and Scale vs. Hi Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3164	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Re: AM/SHS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3165	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Re: S-DesignS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3166	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Zephyr
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3167	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Decal Source
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3168	From: Richard Snook	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: RF16
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3169	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3170	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Re: RF16
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3171	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: wish list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3172	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Large Scale show on East Coast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3173	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Zephyr
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3174	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: cleaners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3175	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: ATTN : Paul York -Unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3176	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Zephyr prototype
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3177	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: Zephyr prototype
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3178	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: A Simple Request
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3179	From: S Stokrocki	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: RF16
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3180	From: S Stokrocki	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: RF16
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3181	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Sn3/On3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3182	From: Dick Wasenius	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: remove from mailing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3183	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: A Simple Request
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3184	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 243
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3185	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Replacing bellows material
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3186	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: smoke bellows glue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3187	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: CTT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3188	From: kelvin white	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: Sn3/On3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3189	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Sn3/On3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3190	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: Sn3/On3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3191	From: Richard Snook	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Double listing!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3192	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Scale Size items from Lledo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3193	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: remove from mailing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3194	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: New SW-9 paint schemes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3195	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: spray paints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3196	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: spray paints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3197	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: TO Allen Evans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3198	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: in the red
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3199	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Don Munsey, Jr. -- ALERT!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3200	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: paints and painting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3201	From: Boss31@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 247
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3202	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Adding sound to AF engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3203	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Quarter Time
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3204	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Quarter Time
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3205	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Scale loco on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3206	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: K-line S-gauge track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3207	From: Jarcho	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: K-line track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3208	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: K-line track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3209	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3210	From: Bill Porter	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: paints and painting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3211	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3212	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: bellows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3213	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3214	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Ott website
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3215	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3216	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: : SuggeStionS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3217	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Ott sound systems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3218	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: WANTED
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3219	From: John Foley	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Message from #Rd RailDelivered-To: foley164@ptdprolog.net X-Sender:
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3220	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] WANTED
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3221	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3222	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3223	From: Joe Visintine	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Whistling thanks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3224	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: K-line track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3225	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3226	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: K-line track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3227	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: OMS sounds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3228	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: OMS sounds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3229	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines & AF Sound Tubes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3230	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: OMS sounds -- Stopping Choo-Choo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3231	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: K-line track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3232	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: What about adding Flyer-type whistle and bell?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3233	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3234	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Justrains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3235	From: Dave Heine	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3236	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3237	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Dept. 56 '55 Fords
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3238	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: KLine track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3239	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: AF "quarter-time"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3240	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: unSubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3241	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: K-line track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3242	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: electronic trip parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3243	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3244	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3245	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: electronic track trip
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3246	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: magnet wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3247	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: magnet wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3248	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: magnet wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3249	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3250	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: magnet wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3251	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3252	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: magnet wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3253	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Barker's AF repair and operating manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3254	From: John Foley	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Large Scale Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3255	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Barker's AF repair manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3256	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Barker's AF repair manual
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3257	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: magnet wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3258	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: What about adding Flyer-type whistle and bell?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3259	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Large Scale Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3260	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3261	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: magnet wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3262	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Large Scale Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3263	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 250
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3264	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Paul Yorke's web site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3265	From: noramz@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: AF chuff rate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3266	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Large Scale Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3267	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3268	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: magnet wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3269	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 251
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3270	From: Richard.Spritz@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 251
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3271	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: magnet wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3272	From: David Horn	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: 772 tube
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3273	From: David Horn	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: barrel comm steamers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3274	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: The X-29's are a GO !!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3275	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: magnet wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3276	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: 772 tube
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3277	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: 772 tube
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3278	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: FW: The X-29's are a GO !!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3279	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: magnet wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3280	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: 5 digit steam loco diagram
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3281	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: apples to oranges & forbidden fruit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3282	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Another source of magnet wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3283	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: apples to oranges & forbidden fruit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3284	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: apples to oranges & forbidden fruit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3285	From: Don Abrams	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Magnet Wire Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3286	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 251
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3287	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Several Topics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3288	From: Monte Miller	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: 917, 919 hopper
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3289	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: 919 sides; Banana reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3290	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: flyer/flyonel goodies
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3291	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: New old Winross trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3292	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: SILVER STREAK 480?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3293	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] SILVER STREAK 480?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3294	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: silver streak 405 Not479 MY MISTAKE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3295	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: SILVER STREAK 480?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3296	From: JFR040436@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: forbidden fruit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3297	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Silver Streak
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3298	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: chrome for silver streak
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3299	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: MP PA/PA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3300	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Plastice filler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3301	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Re: chrome for silver streak
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3302	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Re: Plastice filler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3303	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Sinclair logo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3304	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Re: Plastice filler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3305	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Re: Sinclair logo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3306	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Colber box art w/Sinclair tanker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3307	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Re: Colber box art w/Sinclair tanker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3308	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Re: Wood-sided reefers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3309	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Trip to S.C.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3310	From: Neil Trump	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Ramblings from over the pond
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3311	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Good Lionel stuff that I wish A.C. Gilbert had made.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3312	From: J. Row	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Multi List?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3313	From: Anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: AF/Lionel Silver Flash
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3314	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: S-scale out side?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3315	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: New Flyer Repro Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3316	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: S-scale out side?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3317	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: any lay outs in Oregon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3318	From: Richard Snook	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Village Depot??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3319	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Re: Village Depot??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3320	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: Layouts in Oregon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3321	From: busy-boy	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Wishing and Hoping and Dreaming and Praying . . .
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3322	From: David Horn	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: S GG1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3323	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: LTI UP paint problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3324	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3325	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3326	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3327	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3328	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3329	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: Lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3330	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: Lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3331	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: All [S-Trains] Lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3332	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: No HiFI
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3333	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: No HiFI
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3334	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: No HiFI
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3335	From: Anormal1@aol.com	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: Hi Fi
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3336	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: This message is in mono
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3337	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: Hi Fi
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3338	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Lionel not caring
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3339	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: E.B.T. Hoppers in Sn3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3340	From: neil.trump@xx.xxx	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI paint problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3341	From: Dalessandro, David L TL13C	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Selling Shell's seprate, a bad idea..
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3342	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3343	From: Dennis Back	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: No HiFI (*REALLY* O.T.)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3344	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: AM Diesel Loco Shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3345	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3346	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: E.B.T. Hoppers in Sn3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3347	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Proto:64 and tinplate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3348	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3349	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3350	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3351	From: Mark Preman	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3352	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Help with Sam the Semaphore man
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3353	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3354	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Shell game: was LTI UP paint problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3355	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: AM S12 Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3356	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI paint problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3357	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: Selling Shell's seprate, a bad idea..
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3358	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3359	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Village Depot IS OPEN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3360	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: engine shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3361	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: Village Depot IS OPEN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3362	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3363	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Parts Bin??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3364	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: Parts Bin??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3365	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: AM Diesel Loco Shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3366	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Parts etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3367	From: busy-boy	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Take Me Out to The Olde Shell Game
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3368	From: busy-boy	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Take Me Out to The Olde Shell Game
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3369	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3370	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: Proto:64 and tinplate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3371	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Type B trucks & Alco PA's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3372	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3373	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: Type B trucks & Alco PA's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3374	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: AM shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3375	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: AM shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3376	From: JTMGoBlue@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: 18 B transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3377	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: 18 B transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3378	From: Rodney.Booth@xxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: 18 B transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3379	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Missing postings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3380	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: missing postings 2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3381	From: Michael Greene	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Maine Narrow Gauge in S - Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3382	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3383	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: AM S12 Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3384	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3385	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: Missing postings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3386	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3387	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3388	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Village depot and "S"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3389	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3390	From: busy-boy	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Chassis for Sharks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3391	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: E-units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3392	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3393	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Metal couplers: was shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3394	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: Parts Bin??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3395	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Manufacturing wish list??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3396	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Top 5 locos??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3397	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: Chassis for Sharks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3398	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: Manufacturing wish list??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3399	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: E-units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3400	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Not necesarily gospel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3401	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: Shark species
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3402	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: keep on truckin'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3403	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: Chassis for Sharks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3404	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: GP7 trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3405	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: Missing postings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3406	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: NASG MAG Survey
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3407	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: Not necesarily gospel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3408	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Back from vacation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3409	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: Alco PA's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3410	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: AM FA/FB-2 Dimensions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3411	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Shared Files
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3412	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Reefer Model
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3413	From: JIM SYPHAX	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: WABASH F3 SHELLS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3414	From: JIM SYPHAX	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Fw: HODSON SHARKS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3415	From: JIM SYPHAX	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Fw: HODSON E7/E8
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3416	From: JIM SYPHAX	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: HODSON SHELLS Es and SHARKS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3417	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: Chassis for Sharks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3418	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: AM Bald. S-12 Dimension
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3419	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3420	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: Not necesarily gospel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3421	From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3422	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3423	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3424	From: DrRonSLCC@aol.com	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Help on diagnosis of 312 loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3425	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: Help on diagnosis of 312 loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3426	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: nouse? mouse? house? noose? norse? louse?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3427	From: JIM SYPHAX	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: HODSON SHELLS & PICTURES OF Es
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3428	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3429	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Alaska RR pictures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3430	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: nouse? mouse? house? noose? norse? louse?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3431	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Flyer trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3432	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3433	From: DrRonSLCC@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Follow-up on the 312 Diagnosis Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3434	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Follow-up on the 312 Diagnosis Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3435	From: Gf3897@aol.com	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: SEmaphore Sam
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3436	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: nouse? mouse? house? noose? norse? louse?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3437	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: 312
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3438	From: Gale Hall	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Matchbox
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3439	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: test
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3440	From: Gerbasi	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Complaints about AM products
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3441	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Fw: AF 312 problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3442	From: Ken Kinyon	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Brass Restoration
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3443	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: test
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3444	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Follow-up on the 312 Diagnosis Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3445	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Restoration
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3446	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Stretch Limo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3447	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: onelist archives
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3448	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: AM and KD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3449	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Restoration
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3450	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Complaints about AM products
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3451	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Thanks, keep them coming!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3452	From: Milorod@aol.com	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 262
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3453	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Stretch Limo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3454	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: AM Gondola, again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3455	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Central Valley address
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3456	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3457	From: Mike Shea	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: AM and KD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3458	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Weekend Report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3459	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 262
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3460	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: NASG Election Results
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3461	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: AM and KD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3462	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Stretch Limo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3463	From: MICHAEL J. HOLLAND	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: AM and KD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3464	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: NASG Election
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3465	From: David Horn	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: 312
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3466	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Complaints about AM products
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3467	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: A.M. Souther 4-6-2 loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3468	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Follow-up on the 312 Diagnosis Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3469	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Newfie Layout Design
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3470	From: David Horn	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: 312 problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3471	From: FKopetz@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Possible Mid-50's AF "Crusader" set lineup...?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3472	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Schwan's One More Time
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3473	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: AM RS3 repaint and conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3474	From: Cheri221@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's One More Time
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3475	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS3 repaint and conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3476	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: AM Gondola, again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3477	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Possible Mid-50's AF "Crusader" set lineup...?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3478	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Possible Mid-50's AF "Crusader" set lineup...?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3479	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Spare Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3480	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's Proof of Purchase
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3481	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS3 repaint and conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3482	From: David Horn	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: 307, 312, diesel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3483	From: John Foley	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: NASG Elections
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3484	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: Spare Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3485	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Marker lights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3486	From: Pete Ervin	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: 312 problem diagnosis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3487	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS3 repaint and conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3488	From: David Horn	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: sorry about the mis-reply
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3489	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: Spare Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3490	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: Marker lights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3491	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: Spare Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3492	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: Spare Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3493	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Schwans lable
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3494	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: PRS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3495	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: PRS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3496	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: layouts outside
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3497	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: layouts outside
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3498	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Bushing AF Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3499	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: PRS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3500	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: BL-2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3501	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Screwed blue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3502	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Re: PRS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3503	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Saw Mill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3504	From: Bill Clark	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Re: Saw Mill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3505	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: OUTDOOR "S"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3506	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Re: PRS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3507	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3508	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Re: PRS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3509	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: screwed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3510	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS3 repaint and conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3511	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: PRS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3512	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: NASG Membership Time
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3513	From: David Horn	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: replacement smoke wick and coils
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3514	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Sawmill Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3515	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Sawmill Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3516	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Sawmill Humor]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3517	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re-Bushing Jig
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3518	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Sawmill Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3519	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Humor?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3520	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Sawmill Humor]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3521	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: layouts outside
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3522	From: noramz@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: smoke wick & coil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3523	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Slawmill Humor]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3524	From: Andy McBride	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Smokin'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3525	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Slawmill Humor]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3526	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Slawmill Humor]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3527	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Smokin'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3528	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: replacement smoke wick and coils
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3529	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: layouts outside
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3530	From: FKopetz@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Now...questions on a 293 Pacific...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3531	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Now...questions on a 293 Pacific...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3532	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Now...questions on a 293 Pacific...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3533	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Sawmill Humor]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3534	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Humor?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3535	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Sawmill Humor]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3536	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: PRS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3537	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Slawmill Humor]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3538	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: saw mill jokes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3539	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: smoke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3540	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Smokin'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3541	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Brainiac down again!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3542	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: keep em coming
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3543	From: William H Trefts	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: Sawmill Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3544	From: Dave Silva	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: disconnect
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3545	From: David Horn	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: cutting styrene
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3546	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: cutting styrene
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3547	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3548	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: 792 Terminal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3549	From: Andy McBride	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Controllers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3550	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Problems here
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3551	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: cutting styrene
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3552	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Comments from AmericanModels.com]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3553	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: capacitors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3554	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: converting Gilbert steamers to scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3555	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: paint masks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3556	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: capacitors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3557	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3558	From: louis glumac	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: #24312 ???????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3559	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: converting Gilbert steamers to scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3560	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: smoke tubing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3561	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: converting Gilbert steamers to scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3562	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: S scale stretch limo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3563	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: SIT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3564	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: #24312 ???????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3565	From: david s garber	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: 792 Terminal roof
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3566	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Central Valley
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3567	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: 4000 Gallon Tank Car, Real Railroad mail lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3568	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/12/1999
Subject: Mint Edition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3569	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/12/1999
Subject: Re: Industry Info was: Central Valley
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3570	From: Don Abrams	Date: 6/12/1999
Subject: Diesel Armature Bearings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3571	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: S brass, again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3572	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: Re: S brass, again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3573	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: Baldwin Brush Hell
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3574	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: Baldwin brush hell
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3575	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: Vacation Webpage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3576	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: track trips
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3577	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: Re: Baldwin Brush Hell
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3578	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: PPSSW Weekend report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3579	From: Don Abrams	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Soldering Brushes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3580	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: screwed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3581	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: 6th annual Treasure Valley trin show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3582	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: screwed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3583	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: NASG - Poor Relation ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3584	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: Baldwin brushes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3585	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: Original AF parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3586	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: NASG - Poor Relation ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3587	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: screwed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3588	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: S brass, again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3589	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Old Pullman Trackwork
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3590	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: flyer rescue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3591	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: CV info thanks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3592	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: [sfinescale] Old Pullman Trackwork
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3593	From: Michael Greene	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: NASG - Poor Relation ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3594	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: screwed??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3595	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: New Location
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3596	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: oddball,uncatalogued flyer set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3597	From: Track2 RailNet/DanceNet	Date: 6/15/1999
Subject: Anybody-seen-them?: PCC Streetcars, S Ga., by James Edwards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3598	From: David Horn	Date: 6/15/1999
Subject: Rewinding Nichrome Wire
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3599	From: borj	Date: 6/15/1999
Subject: Broken plastic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3600	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/15/1999
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3601	From: borj	Date: 6/15/1999
Subject: color schemes of RR engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3602	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: color schemes of RR engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3603	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: can motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3604	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3605	From: JIM SYPHAX	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: HODGSON SHELLS & PICTURES OF Es
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3606	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Undec. RS-3 (AC hirail) for Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3607	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: flyer rescue
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3608	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: SD60s
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3609	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: NASG Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3610	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Downs Model Railroad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3611	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: NMRA train show OPENS on FRIDAY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3612	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: Anybody-seen-them?: PCC Streetcars, S Ga., by James Edwards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3613	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3614	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: Anybody-seen-them?: PCC Streetcars, S Ga., by James Edwards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3615	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: NMRA train show OPENS on FRIDAY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3616	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Re: Downs Model Railroad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3617	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Re: Downs Model Railroad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3618	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Re: NASG Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3619	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Gilbert Reproductions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3620	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Min Radius
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3621	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: S Containers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3622	From: M.McConnell	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Re: Downs Model Railroad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3623	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Re: S Containers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3624	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Re: S Containers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3625	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Rust removal on AF chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3626	From: David Horn	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Culvert loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3627	From: David Horn	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: K-line long straight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3628	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Culvert loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3629	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Rust removal on AF chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3630	From: David Horn	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Culvert loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3631	From: Dennis Back	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Repro Barrel Loader question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3632	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Repro Barrel Loader question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3633	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Culvert loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3634	From: David Horn	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Culvert loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3635	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Repro Barrel Loader question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3636	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: CDS Dry Transfers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3637	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Repro Barrel Loader question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3638	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Rail Weight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3639	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3640	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: RI Decals and paint possibilities
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3641	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: late 1980s/early 1990s American Models Geeps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3642	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Loader Pictures Wanted
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3643	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: gngoat@onelist.com: [gngoat] Digest Number 89
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3644	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Looking for Pantagraphs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3645	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Re: Looking for Pantagraphs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3646	From: Gerbasi	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Re: repo barrel loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3647	From: alice beachy	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: New vehicle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3648	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: UK Magazines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3649	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3650	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Re: late 1980s/early 1990s American Models Geeps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3651	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Flyer Number list, and photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3652	From: Phil and Cathie	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: removal from list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3653	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Looking for "Red Stripe" paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3654	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: PulMor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3655	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3656	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Rock Island hopper blues
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3657	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Flyer prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3658	From: Dave Heine	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3659	From: JASSMA@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 278
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3660	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Red stripe, & pantographs.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3661	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3662	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Changing screen name
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3663	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3664	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3665	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3666	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: late 1980s/early 1990s American Models Geeps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3667	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3668	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: PulMor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3669	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: FW: Phone Scam -Forwarded]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3670	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Looking for Pantagraphs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3671	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: FW: Phone Scam -Forwarded]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3672	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3673	From: John Foley	Date: 6/21/1999
Subject: Gats Maryland
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3674	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/21/1999
Subject: Rock Island Info Source
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3675	From: Dave Heine	Date: 6/21/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3676	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 6/21/1999
Subject: Rock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3677	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/21/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3678	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/21/1999
Subject: Rail weights and sizes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3679	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3680	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: Latest Status at B.T.S.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3681	From: John Foley	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: Chantilly Virginia Greenberg's Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3682	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: PRR Keystone Decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3683	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: Baldwin Traction Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3684	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: Village Depot
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3685	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3686	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: Baldwin Traction Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3687	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: Baldwin Traction Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3688	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3689	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: Rail weights and sizes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3690	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Forward: Ertl Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3691	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: MDT-PFE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3692	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3693	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: MDT-PFE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3694	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Another automobile candidate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3695	From: Jarcho	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: refrigerator cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3696	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: Another automobile candidate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3697	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: CT S Gaugers Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3698	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: For Sale 'Scale' Undec AM USRA 4-6-2 @ NASG Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3699	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: OT- APS Cameras
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3700	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Truck Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3701	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Truck Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3702	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Truck Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3703	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Ertl Frevy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3704	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Camelback
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3705	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3706	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3707	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Removeal from list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3708	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Camelback
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3709	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: MDT-PFE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3710	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy: Sir Topum Hat's car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3711	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Truck Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3712	From: Andy Hornback	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3713	From: Andy Hornback	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3714	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: OT- APS Cameras
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3715	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: CT S Gaugers Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3716	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Clouds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3717	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Lionel Products, any out there?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3718	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: READING CAMELBACKS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3719	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel Products, any out there?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3720	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Odds and ends
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3721	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Re: Clouds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3722	From: JTMGoBlue@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: AF Wants
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3723	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: 152-155 # rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3724	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Re: Truck Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3725	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Flyer prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3726	From: Raymond Abbott	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Ertl Gp35
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3727	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Rare S Stuff for Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3728	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Peening
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3729	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3730	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Clouds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3731	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Schwan's tricks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3732	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Diecast Clouds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3733	From: Mark Preman	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Re: Wayne Broadhead/Nothing to Buy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3734	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Diecast Clouds - The Link
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3735	From: borj	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Steam whistle by Gilbertfor the K325
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3736	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3737	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: GP Dummy kitbashing?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3738	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl GP35
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3739	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: S scale vehicles for cheap!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3740	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: DSL Shops online again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3741	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: 152-155 # rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3742	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Wheels for Cheap?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3743	From: RobertE613@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: New Transformer Power
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3744	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: Steam whistle by Gilbertfor the K325
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3745	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: Wheels for Cheap?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3746	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: PRR Keystone Decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3747	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 284
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3748	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 284
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3749	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 284
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3750	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: Steam whistle by Gilbertfor the K325
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3751	From: whutton	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: operating boxcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3752	From: Dennis Back	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: operating boxcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3753	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: 05 PDT) - American Flyer T.N.T EXPLODING Box Car (http://cgi.ebay .
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3754	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: 05 PDT) - American Flyer T.N.T EXPLODING B
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3755	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: operating boxcar
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3756	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel Products, any out there?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3757	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: 770 platform loader, etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3758	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Franklin Choo-Choo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3759	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: [Fwd: FW: The New Parking Lot !!!!!]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3760	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel Products, any out there?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3761	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: DSL Shops layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3762	From: Pete Ervin	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville church
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3763	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville church
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3764	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: tank car color
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3765	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville church
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3766	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: tank car color
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3767	From: Dennis Back	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3768	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Franklin Choo-Choo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3769	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville church
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3770	From: The Reis'	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: S scale vehicles for cheap!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3771	From: Kimball, Bob (PB)	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 286
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3772	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: FRANKLIN & TRACKS AHEAD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3773	From: David Horn	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Franklins
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3774	From: RWJW3@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville Glue?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3775	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: Franklins
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3776	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Smoking armature windings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3777	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: Smoking armature windings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3778	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: Smoking armature windings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3779	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: smoking armature
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3780	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: plasticville glue damage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3781	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: DC Magnets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3782	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: smoking armature
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3783	From: Jarcho	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: smoking armature
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3784	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: smoking armature
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3785	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: Franklin Choo-Choo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3786	From: Brian Johns	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville church
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3787	From: Anormal1@aol.com	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Magnets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3788	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: DC motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3789	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: S gauge auto carriers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3790	From: David Horn	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Franklin cc weight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3791	From: William H Trefts	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re-magnetizing magnets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3792	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: DC motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3793	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: auto carrier/weights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3794	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: DC motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3795	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: S gauge auto carriers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3796	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: auto carrier
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3797	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: DC motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3798	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: DC motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3799	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Balky #770 loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3800	From: louis glumac	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: Balky #770 loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3801	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: DC motors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3802	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3803	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Armature ohmage and DC to AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3804	From: Alan Evans	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Update on NASG 50' UP Freight Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3805	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: 33X reverse units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3806	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: armature ohmage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3807	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3808	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: S gauge auto carriers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3809	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: DC Engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3810	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: AC and DC together
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3811	From: Dennis Back	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: AC and DC together
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3812	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Auto Carriers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3813	From: David Horn	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: AC/DC and ohms
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3814	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: S & Sn3 CDS Dry Transfers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3815	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Canada Day
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3816	From: kelvin white	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Re: Update on NASG 50' UP Freight Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3817	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: [Fwd: FW: MNRail: UP C&E to help NS]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3818	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Smokey the armature
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3819	From: Alan Evans	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Looking for rider(s) to NASG Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3820	From: david s garber	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: "S" in Switzerland
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3821	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Confused about the York Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3822	From: M.McConnell	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Nickel-Silver or Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3823	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Re: Confused about the York Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3824	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3825	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Add smoke/choo-choo to #307?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3826	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Re: Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3827	From: Mark Preman	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3828	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Reversing Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3829	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Reversing Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3830	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Reversing Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3831	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Reversing Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3832	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: add smoke/choochoo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3833	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3834	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3835	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3836	From: RKuep44202@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: ERTL Trainsets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3837	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: scale rail talk
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3838	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: TCA York train show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3839	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3840	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3841	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: scale rail talk
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3842	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3843	From: David Horn	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: 21155 and 21004/5 operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3844	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Lionel and scale decals.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3845	From: David Horn	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: York on Thursday
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3846	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: 21155 and 21004/5 operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3847	From: Dennis Back	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Docksiders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3848	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: AutoRack
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3849	From: Neil Trump	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: 21155 and 21004/5 operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3850	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3851	From: Jarcho	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: late Flyer steamers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3852	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3853	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: 21155 and 21004/5 operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3854	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Bakers Chocolate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3855	From: John Foley	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Brass for Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3856	From: Lawrence and Jill Boul	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: New web site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3857	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: Re: Scale Decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3858	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: Brass Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3859	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: Holiday Greetings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3860	From: Lawrence and Jill Boul	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: Sorry
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3861	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3862	From: david s garber	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: Chat room
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3863	From: Don Thompson	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3864	From: kelvin white	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Signing off for a while
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3865	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Repairing an AF 21004 0-6-0
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3866	From: Chasbo86@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: vacation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3867	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: 0-6-0
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3868	From: FHRaab@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: AF track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3869	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Brass Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3870	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Re: Repairing an AF 21004 0-6-0
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3871	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3872	From: Lawrence and Jill Boul	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: New Zealand Finescale page
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3873	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: vacation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3874	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Re: TRACKS AHEAD
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3875	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: TRACKS AHEAD AGAIN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3876	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: TRACKS AHEAD WEBPAGE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3877	From: michael prell	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: PBS Special
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3878	From: Monte Miller	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: Re: PBS Special
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3879	From: david s garber	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3880	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: Re: PBS Special
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3881	From: michael prell	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: Re: PBS Special
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3882	From: David Horn	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Lunatic fringe....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3883	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Re: Lunatic fringe....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3884	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: lunatic fringe part 3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3885	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Re: lunatic fringe part 3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3886	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: 21105 Loco Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3887	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Lunatic Fringe part3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3888	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Re: Lunatic fringe....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3889	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Re: 21105 Loco Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3890	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Plastic bits and pieces for project.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3891	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Re: Lunatic fringe....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3892	From: Andy McBride	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Lunatic fringe ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3893	From: D Simon	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: 314AW whistle controller
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3894	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Re: Lunatic fringe ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3895	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: e-bay et alii
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3896	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Train demolition derby on Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3897	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Re: Train demolition derby on Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3898	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Re: e-bay et alii
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3899	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Re: Lunatic fringe ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3900	From: Don652@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: purchases
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3901	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Re: MD & VA shows this weekend
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3902	From: Don Abrams	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: ebay -- again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3903	From: Don652@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: PURCHASES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3904	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: 21105
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3905	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: 314AW
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3906	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Re: 21105 Loco Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3907	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Repainting Matchbox & Hot Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3908	From: The Reis'	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Re: Repainting Matchbox & Hot Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3909	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: Fwd: [Proto64] Estate S Items For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3910	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: Re: Repainting Matchbox & Hot Wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3911	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: Re: 314AW
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3912	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: steve's sick LTI Flyer horn
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3913	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: LTI Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3914	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: Re: steve's sick LTI Flyer horn
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3915	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: S-Trains will return
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3916	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: Re: S-Trains Archives and Show this weekend
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3917	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: Re: S-Trains Archives
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3918	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: READING MATERIAL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3919	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Chantilly and UMarlboro shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3920	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: 21004 rivets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3921	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Re: 21004 rivets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3922	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Plasticville Airport terminal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3923	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville Airport terminal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3924	From: Don Thompson	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville Airport terminal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3925	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville Airport terminal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3926	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Narrow gauge Mikado in S?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3927	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: S-Trains Webpage is back up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3928	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: Chantilly Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3929	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: set #20123 &Field magnets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3930	From: Trish Snook	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: New address for Sunny Creek Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3931	From: Dave Heine	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Narrow gauge Mikado in S?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3932	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: Tracks Way Ahead
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3933	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: Auto Rack Loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3934	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: How many drops?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3935	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: Re: How many drops?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3936	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: AF Compatable Sound Systems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3937	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: Re: AF Compatable Sound Systems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3938	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: the right stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3939	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: Re: AF Compatable Sound Systems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3940	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: AM and S-HS equipment on AF track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3941	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: Hot Wheels Collectibles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3942	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: BAAFC and ACSG combined shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3943	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: temporary removal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3944	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Chantilly Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3945	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: FRIENDLY S CLUBS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3946	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3947	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3948	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: 785 Coal loader operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3949	From: Scott Brown	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 301
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3950	From: John Foley	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Coal Loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3951	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: Train shows last weekend
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3952	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: alps decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3953	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: 785 Coal loader operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3954	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Die Cast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3955	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: June Editorial
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3956	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Trailer Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3957	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: Trailer Train
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3958	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: 200 ton Flat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3959	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3960	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3961	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3962	From: Richard	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: SD60
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3963	From: Jim Grimes	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Denver show?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3964	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: AM heavyweights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3965	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: American Models Trouble
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3966	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3967	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: too bright for me
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3968	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3969	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: too bright for me
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3970	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: too bright for me
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3971	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: American Models Trouble
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3972	From: Bill Clark	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3973	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: S Clubs and Contacts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3974	From: Bill Porter	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: too bright for me
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3975	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Too bright for me
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3976	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: too bright for me
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3977	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer Branford Diner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3978	From: John Foley	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Train Shows
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3979	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3980	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer Branford Diner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3981	From: Mark Preman	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Wanted: Docksider Shell
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3982	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: too bright for me
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3983	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: AM RS-3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3984	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: Touch up paint for AF Light green
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3985	From: David Golden	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Questions from a beginner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3986	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: Questions from a beginner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3987	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: Questions from a beginner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3988	From: MILAYMAN@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: FYI - MEETS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3989	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: AM Heavyweights
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3990	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Parts, Books, Screen saver, Site Search
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3991	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Jeff burnatowski:AF accessory green
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3992	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: Paint for AM locos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3993	From: Larry Oberman	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: L
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3994	From: Roy E. Plotnick	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: SIT unit needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3995	From: Don Thompson	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS-3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3996	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: American Flyer #15 Directronic rectifier
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3997	From: Dennis Back	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer #15 Directronic rectifier
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3998	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer #15 Directronic rectifier
Group: S-Trains	Message: 3999	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4000	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: posting e-bay url
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4001	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: Too bright for me
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4002	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS-3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4003	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville Airport terminal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4004	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Flyer locomotive lubrication instructions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4005	From: FKopetz@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Link Couplers...Does converting to knuckle ruin the value?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4006	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: eBay - Another AF bargain 300AC - May run, $139.00!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4007	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: TTX
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4008	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: [Fwd: FW: Burkhardt Gone from WC]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4009	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS-3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4010	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: Link Couplers...Does converting to knuckle ruin the value?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4011	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer locomotive lubrication instructions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4012	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: "Dispatch" topic ideas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4013	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: Link Couplers...Does converting to knuckle ruin the value?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4014	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: coupler conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4015	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: NASG Membership Time
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4016	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: smoke fluid and LC/KC conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4017	From: Scott Brown	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: eBay - Another AF bargain 300AC - May run, $139.00!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4018	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4019	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: eBay - Another AF bargain 300AC - May run, $139.00!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4020	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 305
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4021	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: eBay - Another AF bargain 300AC - May run, $139.00!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4022	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: eBay - Another AF bargain 300AC - May run, $139.00!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4023	From: Neil Trump	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Ebay description, a classic!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4024	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: eBay - Another AF bargain 300AC - May run, $139.00!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4025	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: My posting the other day, Fire--it's OK!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4026	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Library of Congress website
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4027	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Panoramic Photograph Collection
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4028	From: Yost, Roy	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 301
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4029	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4030	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay description, a classic!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4031	From: Dennis Back	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4032	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4033	From: Dennis Back	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Sell or keep the "L" ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4034	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Trains Unlimited
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4035	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Brand L beacon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4036	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Brand L beacon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4037	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Trains Unlimited
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4038	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: Brand L beacon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4039	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4040	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: pen smoke fluid dispenser
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4041	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4042	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4043	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: Smoke fluid
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4044	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: E-bay and Rocket Launcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4045	From: Bill Porter	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: Lighting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4046	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: E-bay and Rocket Launcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4047	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: coal loaders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4048	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4049	From: JFR040436@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Another Publication Dies
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4050	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Value vs price: A Flyer Atlantic tale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4051	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: MESA me, missing you
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4052	From: Don Thompson	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: MESA me, missing you
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4053	From: Richard	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Last call for SMG ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4054	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Last call for SMG ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4055	From: Richard.Spritz@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 307
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4056	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: S/Sn3 Modeling Guide - R.I.P.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4057	From: borj	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: e-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4058	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Spritz re S Scale Connection
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4059	From: Dale Smith	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay description, a classic!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4060	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 307
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4061	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: Spritz re S Scale Connection
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4062	From: Alan Evans	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Trade: AM Pennsy for NYC units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4063	From: Richard	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: How to fill the void??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4064	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: How to fill the void??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4065	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: AC power
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4066	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Brass Alloy AM Flex Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4067	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: Cannibalizing engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4068	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: How to fill the void??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4069	From: Richard	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: A disPATCH to cover the hole??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4070	From: Richard	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: sorry ..wrong grouping!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4071	From: George Courtney	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Loss of S/Sn3 Modeling Guide.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4072	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: How to fill the void??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4073	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Alloy AM Flex Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4074	From: busy-boy@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Lionel's New Website
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4075	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: Loss of S/Sn3 Modeling Guide.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4076	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: More eBay effects
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4077	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel's New Website
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4078	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Alloy AM Flex Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4079	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] How to fill the void??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4080	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel's New Website
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4081	From: Gf3897@aol.com	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 308
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4082	From: George Courtney	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: response to earlier posting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4083	From: RRDART@aol.com	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] How to fill the void??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4084	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] How to fill the void??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4085	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: New NWSL replacement wheelsets for AM GPs, RSs, and F units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4086	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: "L" PEOPLE LINKS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4087	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Sawmills
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4088	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Re: "L" PEOPLE LINKS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4089	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: NWSL Wheelset Pix
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4090	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Re: Beacon operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4091	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Re: Repro paints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4092	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Re: NASG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4093	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Re: MTH signals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4094	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Re: Beacon operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4095	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Status at B.T.S. - Sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4096	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Re: NWSL Wheelset Pix
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4097	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Carnival/Fair items
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4098	From: Charles Ellis	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: water tower repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4099	From: RxMan46321@aol.com	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Naming Streamliners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4100	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 307
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4101	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Re: Naming Streamliners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4102	From: Andy McBride	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Re: Naming Streamliners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4103	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: zephyr names
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4104	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Fw: American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4105	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: NWSF wheels, Proto 64, Bill Wade, and the whole thing.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4106	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Re: Naming Streamliners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4107	From: Richard	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: knock knock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4108	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: NWSF wheels, Proto 64, Bill Wade, and the whole thing.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4109	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Re: NWSF wheels, Proto 64, Bill Wade, and the whole thing.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4110	From: PatnDave	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Re: NWSF wheels, Proto 64, Bill Wade, and the whole t
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4111	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: knock knock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4112	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: knock knock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4113	From: rgajnak@tellabs.com	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Random Thoughts of S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4114	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts of S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4115	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: knock knock
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4116	From: Dennis Back	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: Show? What show??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4117	From: Dan Mastrobuono	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Pennsy S Models website...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4118	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Gilbertville question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4119	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbertville question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4120	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: Naming Streamliners
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4121	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: S in Denver
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4122	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Pacific 4-6-2 Steam Locomotive
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4123	From: rgajnak@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: 3 bay PS-2's and Other Things
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4124	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: One possible solution
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4125	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: A.F. 5301W Set?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4126	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: S-Scale list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4127	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Charles Ro.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4128	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: S rejection
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4129	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: 'S' Diversity.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4130	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Informal Poll
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4131	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: 'S' Diversity.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4132	From: Andy McBride	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: Informal Poll
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4133	From: rgajnak@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: Informal Poll
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4134	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: email "slang" was: Informal Poll
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4135	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: "I" Scale?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4136	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: "I" Scale?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4137	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: O-gauge beauty
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4138	From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: "L"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4139	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: He looks, he bids! HE SCORES!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4140	From: Richard	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: One possible solution
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4141	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Zephyr
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4142	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: Zephyr Names
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4143	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: 4 different s-gauge list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4144	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: 4 different s-gauge list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4145	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 313
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4146	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: S Lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4147	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: pressing need
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4148	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: David Dewey & growing up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4149	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: "I" Scale?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4150	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: S trains, 64 trains, scale trains, lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4151	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Digest Number 313
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4152	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: eBay item#135369412: American Flier New Haven Pullman Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4153	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: eBay item#135369412: American Flier New Haven Pullman Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4154	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: Zephyr Names
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4155	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Convention cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4156	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: eBay item#135369412: American Flier New Haven Pullman Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4157	From: Glen E. Presley	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 308 unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4158	From: Dave Heine	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: S Lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4159	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: Zephyr Names
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4160	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Pressing need
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4161	From: Richard	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: idea for next years get together
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4162	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: idea for next years get together
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4163	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: Rivet tool
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4164	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Strip show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4165	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4166	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: Strip show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4167	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: 4 different s-gauge list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4168	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Ho-Ho-Ho
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4169	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Ho
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4170	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Lionel's feedback page URL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4171	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: digesting multiple lists & NASG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4172	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Replying to the list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4173	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: One possible solution
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4174	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: Replying to the list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4175	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: 4 different s-gauge list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4176	From: Kempfam@aol.com	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Lionel e-mail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4177	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: E-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4178	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: E-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4179	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: St. Paul
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4180	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: E-Bay, unopened display box
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4181	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: MTH #140 Banjo Signal question...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4182	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: banjo signal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4183	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Convention Pix
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4184	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Re: E-Bay, unopened display box
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4185	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: collectors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4186	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Re: collectors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4187	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Re: collectors
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4188	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Re: St. Paul
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4189	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Going out of business sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4190	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Re: 4 different s-gauge list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4191	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Alex Shear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4192	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Toy trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4193	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Separate Lists discussion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4194	From: Richard	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: My fair Laddy!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4195	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: banjo signal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4196	From: JamesIngram@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Wanted: Web Location of Busy AF Catalog Layout Pictures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4197	From: rgajnak@tellabs.com	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: My Kingdom for a List!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4198	From: Andy McBride	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: You heard it here first
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4199	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: WHAT CONVENTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4200	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Thanks from the PPSSW for the Participants of the Lake Special 99
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4201	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Re: You heard it here first
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4202	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Lionel e-mail address
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4203	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: [Fwd: American Flyer]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4204	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Reply from Lionel/TalktoUs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4205	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: faller motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4206	From: Bill Porter	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Re: faller motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4207	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Fwd: AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4208	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Minnesota Heartland Report
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4209	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Re: You heard it here first
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4210	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Racing Champions Mint Editions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4211	From: rgajnak@tellabs.com	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Re: You heard it here first
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4212	From: JoeAWood@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: L-word
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4213	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Re: You heard it here first
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4214	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: EMAIL from LIONEL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4215	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Simulated rivets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4216	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: [Fwd: American Flyer from Lionel talktous]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4217	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: simulating rivets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4218	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Lionel Reply
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4219	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Re: Simulated rivets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4220	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Re: Making a Docksider
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4221	From: Craig Stair	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: FW: AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4222	From: Don Abrams	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: No Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4223	From: AC4400W@aol.com	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Jack Frost PS-2's being shipped
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4224	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Slow speed motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4225	From: Richard	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: from the observation car...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4226	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Responses to sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4227	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: MTH service dept. response RE banjo signal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4228	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Re: NWSL wheel availability
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4229	From: Anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: A M 4-6-2 So. Crescent
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4230	From: rgajnak@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Re: From the observation car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4231	From: Bill Clark	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Thanks to the PPSSW for the Lake Special 99
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4232	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Selection Information]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4233	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: bet you don't have.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4234	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Slow Speed Motor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4235	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Little People & Ballast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4236	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Lionel CEO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4237	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Response to Chris Zizzo (was NWSF wheels, Proto 64, Bill Wade, and
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4238	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Re: Little People & Ballast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4239	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Lionel CEO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4240	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Convention Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4241	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Docksider, rivets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4242	From: rgajnak@tellabs.com	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: Re; New Lionel CEO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4243	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: GREAT NASG CONVENTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4244	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: The Conventions in St. Paul
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4245	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: Re: The Conventions in St. Paul
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4246	From: Jarcho	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: crossing gate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4247	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: Another eBay offering, ya gotta see this one!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4248	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: Jack Frost hoppers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4249	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: Re: Auto carrier
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4250	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: 4-6-2 SO .CRESCENT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4251	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/30/1999
Subject: SILVER BULLET UPDATE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4252	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/30/1999
Subject: Re: CEO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4253	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/30/1999
Subject: Re: SILVER BULLET UPDATE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4254	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/30/1999
Subject: Making your layout come alive with Animation (Larry Graf)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4255	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/30/1999
Subject: alex binkley/airfix figures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4256	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/30/1999
Subject: People for your pike
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4257	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: Green A.F. Pullman
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4258	From: William H Trefts	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: American Flyer Electronic Whistle Control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4259	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer Electronic Whistle Control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4260	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: Re: The Conventions in St. Paul
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4261	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: Re: Making your layout come alive with Animation (Larry Graf)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4262	From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: Ballast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4263	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: ballast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4264	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: ballast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4265	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: ballast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4266	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: Re: ballast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4267	From: James Wysopal	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: vacation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4268	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Glenn Ritter Comments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4269	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4270	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Little People
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4271	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: HiRail trak-cleaning. New track avail = ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4272	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Brown hoist crane Restringing?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4273	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Brownhoist crane restringing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4274	From: The Reis'	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: crane restringing and other items
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4275	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Re-string
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4276	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Re: HiRail trak-cleaning. New track avail = ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4277	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Re: Brown hoist crane Restringing?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4278	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Thanks guys.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4279	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: touch up paints
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4280	From: John Foley	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: Decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4281	From: David Golden	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: Glenn Ritter Comments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4282	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: More Brass for Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4283	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: Re: HiRail trak-cleaning. New track avail = ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4284	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Larry Graf]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4285	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: Fwd: American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4286	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 324
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4287	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Big L reply, lost email
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4288	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Re: Cattle loader roof
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4289	From: michael prell	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Gilbert Erector Sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4290	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert Erector Sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4291	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert Erector Sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4292	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4293	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Re: Cattle loader roof
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4294	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: AC GILBERT PLANT IN NEW HAVEN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4295	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: A.F. Database Application
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4296	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4297	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Interesting news....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4298	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: Interesting news....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4299	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: erector sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4300	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 325
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4301	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4302	From: Bill Porter	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Multiple S lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4303	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Track Cleaning!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4304	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: one list-sure
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4305	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: Multiple S lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4306	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Trade
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4307	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Dave's Flyer Tracker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4308	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: A.F. Database Application
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4309	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: Crinkle paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4310	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Multiple S lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4311	From: John Foley	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: NASG 99 UP Box
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4312	From: John Foley	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: UP CAR OOPS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4313	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: Interesting news....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4314	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Racing Champs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4315	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: AC GILBERT PLANT IN NEW HAVEN
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4316	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Multiple S lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4317	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Schwan's Truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4318	From: The Reis'	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert Erector Sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4319	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Fwd: Interesting news....UPDATE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4320	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Interesting news.... UPDATE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4321	From: Richard	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Convention Feedback
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4322	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: 1999 NASG CONVENTION LAYOUT TOUR PHOTOS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4323	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: S-Scale list joined by sfinescale members
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4324	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: A.F. 295
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4325	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: Interesting news....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4326	From: Train Collectors Association	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: A.F. 295
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4327	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Convention Feedback
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4328	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Convention Feedback
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4329	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Defective decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4330	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: Defective decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4331	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: Defective decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4332	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Convention Feedback
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4333	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Bachmann
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4334	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: Interesting news....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4335	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: Defective decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4336	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Non-L opinion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4337	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: PROMOTING THE NASG
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4338	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: STATIC NASG DISPLAY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4339	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: NASG DISPLAY ANOTHER VIEW
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4340	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Correcting old decals.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4341	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: 30B transformer repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4342	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Re: 30B transformer repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4343	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 328
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4344	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4345	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: WHO ARE THESE GROUPS?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4346	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4347	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: PROMOTING S SCALE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4348	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Re: PROMOTING S SCALE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4349	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Speaker exact size replacement for AF 295 et al.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4350	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: NASG TRAVELING DISPLAY
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4351	From: John Foley	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Promotions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4352	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Re: Promotions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4353	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Promotional displays
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4354	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: scale /hi-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4355	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: scale /hi-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4356	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: 99 NASG Convention Pics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4357	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: scale /hi-rail (this one may take a while)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4358	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: scale /hi-rail (this one may take a while)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4359	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: scale /hi-rail-advantage of AF track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4360	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: scale /hi-rail (this one may take a while)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4361	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Selling shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4362	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: Selling shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4363	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: JPG's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4364	From: David Golden	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: American Flyer Fan
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4365	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer Fan
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4366	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Layout Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4367	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Early '60's Plymouth
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4368	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer Fan
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4369	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Action Car!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4370	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Action Car!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4371	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: Selling shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4372	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: Selling shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4373	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: Selling shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4374	From: kelvin white	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Early '60's Plymouth
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4375	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: -highrail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4376	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: -highrail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4377	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Scene: A Cafe in Paris
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4378	From: Scott Brown	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 330
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4379	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: RBubeck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4380	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 330
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4381	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 330
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4382	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: Scene: Three gentlemen (?)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4383	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Flyer trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4384	From: Richard	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Stealth
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4385	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Dave Goldens' Message
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4386	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4387	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Flyer Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4388	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Interview with Maddox @ L....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4389	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: shells for trade
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4390	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Re: Scale/hirail/AF/narrow/proto/etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4391	From: Richard	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Lyingnel Interview
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4392	From: Richard	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: snail mail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4393	From: The Reis'	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Extra Items
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4394	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Letters to Big L
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4395	From: Richard	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: surveys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4396	From: Richard	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Magazine..numbers??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4397	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: transformers- zap zap!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4398	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: More Musings on the Debate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4399	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 332
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4400	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: repowering
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4401	From: Bill Clark	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: repowering
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4402	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Rehostats
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4403	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Mid Atlantic train shops
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4404	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: rheostats
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4405	From: Dave Ewing	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: More Musings on the Debate
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4406	From: Dennis Back	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: rheostats/ pic. of "L" #95
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4407	From: John Foley	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Brass for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4408	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Mystic Station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4409	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: transformers- zap zap!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4410	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: Mystic Station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4411	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: rheostats
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4412	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: talking station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4413	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: board stiff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4414	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4415	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: rheostats
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4416	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: board stiff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4417	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: transformers- zap zap!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4418	From: Dennis Back	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: "L" #95 rheostat photo link
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4419	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: transformers- zap zap!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4420	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: transformers- zap zap!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4421	From: Charles Ellis	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: transformer question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4422	From: Gerbasi	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: S in Mainstream Model Railroad publications
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4423	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: S in Mainstream Model Railroad publications
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4424	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Board stiff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4425	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Board Stiff - solved
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4426	From: Don Abrams	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Even More Musings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4427	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: transformers- zap zap!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4428	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: flanges away!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4429	From: Anormal1@aol.com	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: cheap wood
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4430	From: Anormal1@aol.com	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: A M 4-6-2 southern
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4431	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: RC trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4432	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 333
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4433	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Circuit Breakers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4434	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: flanges away!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4435	From: Richard	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: no other ideas?????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4436	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Digest Number 334
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4437	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: Sawmill planks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4438	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: in phase
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4439	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: plankly...I don't
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4440	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: 99 Convention Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4441	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Surprising S!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4442	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re-post from the TCA list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4443	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: zap zap thanks!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4444	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Phasing Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4445	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: zap zap thanks!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4446	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: Re-post from the TCA list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4447	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: Surprising S!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4448	From: kelvin white	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Surprising S!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4449	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: Surprising S!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4450	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4451	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: RC trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4452	From: Richard	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Pix of trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4453	From: Bill Banta	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Surprising S!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4454	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: E Bay Listing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4455	From: Melonie & Chris Crnich	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: unscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4456	From: Richard	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: email addresses please
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4457	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: email addresses please
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4458	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: hand hewn
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4459	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Soldering leads to A-M track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4460	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: Soldering leads to A-M track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4461	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Soldering tips
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4462	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: Soldering tips
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4463	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: S Suppliers Page
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4464	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4465	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: How do I.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4466	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: RITS: !950's Grain Elevators
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4467	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: How do I.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4468	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Nurmberg
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4469	From: Dennis Back	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: rheostats/ pic. of "L" #95
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4470	From: Richard	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Publishing Experiences please
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4471	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 335
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4472	From: Jeffrey Madden	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4473	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: rheostats/ pic. of "L" #95
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4474	From: Alan Evans	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Info on Ed Filer's passing away
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4475	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Detail parts needed?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4476	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Convention
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4477	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: Special 'Chat' Guest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4478	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: Nurmberg layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4479	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4480	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: '50's Chev PU
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4481	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: to List or NOT to List?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4482	From: Richard	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: Aww Shuchks...bring books...I'll sign
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4483	From: Richard	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: 1:64 car list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4484	From: Richard	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: WARNING ..Flogging Dead Horse!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4485	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: too small?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4486	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: Re: WARNING ..Flogging Dead Horse!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4487	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: Fw: [S-Scale] Re: theatre seats
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4488	From: John Foley	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4489	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: WARNING...Flogging Dead Horse
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4490	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: AF 355
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4491	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Track Layout!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4492	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: Butler Bins
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4493	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4494	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: AF 355
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4495	From: michael prell	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Thanks to all!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4496	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: '50's Chev PU
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4497	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: 355
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4498	From: Dave Heine	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] WARNING ..Flogging Dead Horse!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4499	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Sam the Semaphore Man 758A ( I Think)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4500	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4501	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: Train Show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4502	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: S Trains in Virginia
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4503	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Help Identifying Equipment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4504	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: freight cars for sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4505	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: car collectors in1/64
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4506	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: erratic 355 AF switcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4507	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: Re: car collectors in1/64
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4508	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: 1:64 Trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4509	From: Richard	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: too much medicine!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4510	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: Train show and sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4511	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] too much medicine!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4512	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: derail switches and train order semaphores
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4513	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: 1 in 64 scale models.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4514	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: great site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4515	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: EP-5 axle gear wearing out
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4516	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4517	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: Re: Train show and sawmill
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4518	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: Re: erratic switcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4519	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: So Long, Ed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4520	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: Elevator Info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4521	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4522	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: sawmill repairs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4523	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: 21808 switcher follies
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4524	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: 21808 & sawmill questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4525	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Re: too much medicine!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4526	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Scott Holm's EP-5 question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4527	From: kelvin white	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Elevator Info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4528	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] montly S scale column in MR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4529	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Worn EP-5 axle gear
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4530	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] montly S scale column in MR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4531	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: semaphores
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4532	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] montly S scale column in MR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4533	From: Don Abrams	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: EP-5
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4534	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Hudson 322's on eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4535	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: sawmill progress
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4536	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Fwd: Re: rrrrrrrrrivets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4537	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: Hudson 322's on eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4538	From: L Montgomery	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Portable S Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4539	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: trains & baseball
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4540	From: RxMan46321@aol.com	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: RMC article on San Juan & Southwestern
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4541	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: trains & baseball
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4542	From: David Golden	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: AF Roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4543	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: trains & baseball
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4544	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: AF Roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4545	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: trains & baseball
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4546	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: trains & baseball
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4547	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: Portable S Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4548	From: Bill Porter	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: New S Scalers (was montly S scale column in MR)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4549	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: portable s layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4550	From: The Reis'	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: trains & baseball
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4551	From: The Reis'	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: Hudson 322's on eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4552	From: donrich	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: Portable S Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4553	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: portable s layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4554	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: Portable S Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4555	From: Richard	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Plans in "S"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4556	From: Richard	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: wye-ring
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4557	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: used AF dealers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4558	From: Dennis Back	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Re: used AF dealers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4559	From: Bill Porter	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Re: used AF dealers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4560	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Archer surface details, i.e. rivets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4561	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Sawmill - - done
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4562	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Seattle Railroading
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4563	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: S in MR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4564	From: L Montgomery	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Spring Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4565	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Spring switch whatever
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4566	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: I'll be away from this 'til 8/30/99.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4567	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: AF Items for Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4568	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: recommendations- transformer, power pac, etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4569	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Re: Seattle Railroading
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4570	From: Fred Alles	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Oil derrick repairs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4571	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: oil derrick repairs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4572	From: Train Collectors Association	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: AF S auction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4573	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Re: Seattle Railroading
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4574	From: Richard	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: spring switches and PC operation
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4575	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Re: Seattle Railroading
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4576	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Refurbishing a Touched-Up Boiler Shell
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4577	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: retouched boiler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4578	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Re: recommendations- transformer, power pac, etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4579	From: lifetalk.radio@cwix.com	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: re-converted to S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4580	From: Scott Brown	Date: 8/21/1999
Subject: Re: Used AF Dealers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4581	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/21/1999
Subject: HOW WE CAME TO S GAUGE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4582	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/21/1999
Subject: Re: HOW WE CAME TO S GAUGE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4583	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/21/1999
Subject: Re: Track systems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4584	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 8/21/1999
Subject: Choo Choo sound of the 293 loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4585	From: donrich	Date: 8/21/1999
Subject: Re: Portable S Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4586	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Choo-Choo Sound
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4587	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Re: Choo-Choo Sound
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4588	From: Tim Burkhart	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Rusty track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4589	From: COALDRAG@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4590	From: Rrman8705@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: AF CARS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4591	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Re: AF CARS recroming
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4592	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] AM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4593	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: How we came to S-Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4594	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Test /AF Truck wanted
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4595	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: FREE RAILROAD ADVERTISING?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4596	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Digest Number 344
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4597	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Re: Securing track to plywood
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4598	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4599	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Re: Glueing track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4600	From: L Montgomery	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 344
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4601	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: wHO came to See the light??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4602	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Homosote
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4603	From: Bill Porter	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: NMRA MMR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4604	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Re: How we came to S-Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4605	From: Don Bitting	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4606	From: Don Bitting	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4607	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Re-railers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4608	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: FREE Railroad classified ads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4609	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4610	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Re: Glueing track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4611	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Mike Hipskind passing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4612	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4613	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: TRANSFORMERS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4614	From: lifetalk.radio@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: MRC 270
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4615	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Arnatures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4616	From: Scott Brown	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: Mr Boussum
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4617	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: ballast bonding material
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4618	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Transformers R Us
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4619	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Paint colors to match AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4620	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers R Us
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4621	From: Bill Porter	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers R Us
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4622	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: WANTED: SHS CNW PS-2 2 BAY HOPPER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4623	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Display cases, shelves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4624	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Dry Transfers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4625	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: CTT Interview with new L Prez...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4626	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: armatures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4627	From: Don652@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4628	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4629	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4630	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4631	From: Jerry	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: AF Brush Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4632	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: AF Brush Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4633	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4634	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: 270 transformer and E unit noise.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4635	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: 1/64th taxi's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4636	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: AF parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4637	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Display cases, shelves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4638	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: armatures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4639	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: transformers HELP!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4640	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4641	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: TRANSFORMERS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4642	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4643	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: TRANSFORMERS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4644	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: brush questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4645	From: Bill Porter	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: TRANSFORMERS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4646	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4647	From: Neil Trump	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Shipping and Handling charges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4648	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: ballast bonding material
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4649	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Shipping and Handling charges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4650	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Shipping and Handling charges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4651	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: E-Bay Item 152688052
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4652	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Downs MRR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4653	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: AF parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4654	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Downs MRR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4655	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: pulmor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4656	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: AF parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4657	From: Ron Sebastian	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: S Scale America Tanks have arrived
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4658	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4659	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Switchers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4660	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Switchers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4661	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Downs MRR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4662	From: Don Abrams	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: TTRevue Maddox Interview
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4663	From: Gerbasi	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: TRANSFORMERS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4664	From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: AM Pacific & DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4665	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: Switchers?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4666	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: AM Pacific & DCC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4667	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Downs MRR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4668	From: R. Alfred & Gwen Whiting	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Fusing transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4669	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: Downs MRR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4670	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 349
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4671	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: armatures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4672	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Stay away!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4673	From: Neil Trump	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: DC Alnico magnets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4674	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Digest Number 349
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4675	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: Shorts using common base post
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4676	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: SHS scale wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4677	From: Don Bitting	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Stamps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4678	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: Stamps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4679	From: William H Trefts	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: National Museum of Transport Web page
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4680	From: The Reis's	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: flyonel ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4681	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Fw: Food For Thought...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4682	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: AF 651 Observation Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4683	From: Nerker, Robert	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: problem light AF651 car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4684	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: Soldering tips
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4685	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: flyonel ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4686	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: AF 651 Observation Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4687	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: diesel switchers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4688	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: diesel switchers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4689	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: diesel switchers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4690	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: 651 observation car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4691	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: food for thought
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4692	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: 651
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4693	From: Jerry	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Thanks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4694	From: Duff&Pam Trautman	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: Welcome to S-Trains@onelist.com
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4695	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Interesting things....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4696	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: AF 18 B TRANSFORMER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4697	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Re: AF 18 B TRANSFORMER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4698	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Diesel switchers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4699	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Photos of the Bristol CLub layout at the New Haven, CT show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4700	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Re: No lights?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4701	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Re: Diesel switchers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4702	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: switcher responses THANX and
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4703	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Re: Rex Docksider
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4704	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Observation car light problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4705	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Paper Buildings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4706	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 8/29/1999
Subject: Trip
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4707	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/29/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4708	From: John Foley	Date: 8/29/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4709	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/29/1999
Subject: smoke in plastic 442???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4710	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/29/1999
Subject: Re: smoke in plastic 442???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4711	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Promoting 'S'
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4712	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Alco chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4713	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Canadian catalogues
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4714	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: Atlantic fix
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4715	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S scale convention 2000
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4716	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: Atlantic fix
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4717	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: transformers - - primary to secondary leaks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4718	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Transformers, and continuity
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4719	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: primary to secondary leaks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4720	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: NASG 2000 CONVENTION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4721	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: stamps and trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4722	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Re: [S-Scale] S scale convention 2000
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4723	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: El loco loco or one baaaaad 442
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4724	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: 2 items
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4725	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Dead CJ 21168 for parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4726	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Prototypes for AM cars (or lack thereof)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4727	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S Guide
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4728	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: Dead CJ 21168 for parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4729	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Re: Miller Switcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4730	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Prototypes for AM cars (or lack thereof)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4731	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Canadian Flyer catalogues
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4732	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: I like my diesel switcher responses
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4733	From: Roger Petrella	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: AF GP-7 Shell
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4734	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: aux. electrical pickup at loco wheels?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4735	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Thankfully folks on the list are
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4736	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Road to happiness results
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4737	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Re: Alco Chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4738	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Re: Miller Switcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4739	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: AM and SHS and ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4740	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Homosote Help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4741	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: D1899 Canadian Flyer Catalog
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4742	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Old Pullman Switch Status
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4743	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Re: 18th Fall Get-together
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4744	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Fw: Lledo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4745	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: AM GP9 fans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4746	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: david dewey and marx
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4747	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Re: david dewey and marx
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4748	From: Richard	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Precast by Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4749	From: Bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Alco chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4750	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Thoughts about the CJ-style locos...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4751	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: taxis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4752	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: CJ's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4753	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: indoor outdoor carpet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4754	From: Mark Preman	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4755	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: 770 Loading Platform Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4756	From: JTMGoBlue@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: Wanted
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4757	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: WANTED: SHS DL&W #00127 "Rebuilt" Box Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4758	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: indoor outdoor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4759	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: Re: 770 Loading Platform Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4760	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: Re: 770 Loading Platform Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4761	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: ATTENTION: eBAY item#156869969
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4762	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: Sam Ting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4763	From: Scott Brown	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 357
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4764	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 357
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4765	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Why S (back then)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4766	From: lifetalk.radio@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: 1951 AF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4767	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Rem's Railroad Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4768	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: AF Database Application
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4769	From: The Reis's	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 357
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4770	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 357
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4771	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Re: 770 man
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4772	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 9/4/1999
Subject: Flyer gurus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4773	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 9/4/1999
Subject: First Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4774	From: Don652@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/4/1999
Subject: Sears Wish Book
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4775	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/4/1999
Subject: New Survey
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4776	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/4/1999
Subject: '53 Chev PU
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4777	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/4/1999
Subject: Fw: New S Scale Manufacturer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4778	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Re: Sam Ting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4779	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Survey Sez
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4780	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Re: New S Scale Manufacturer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4781	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 359
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4782	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Re: Miller Molds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4783	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: '53 Chevy p/u
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4784	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: San Jose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4785	From: SSabino39@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: No smoke for AF 312engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4786	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Re: No smoke for AF 312engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4787	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Ethical Question on Repainting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4788	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Repainting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4789	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Re: Smoke wicks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4790	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Downs Model RR Co.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4791	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Downs Model RR Co.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4792	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: ICQ
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4793	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Looking for help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4794	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: ethical question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4795	From: clifma19@idt.net	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Am Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4796	From: AFSTrains@aol.com	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 360
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4797	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Re: San Jose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4798	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: repainting aged equipment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4799	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Fwd: ICQ IM's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4800	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: ICQ IM's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4801	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: WD 40
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4802	From: M.McConnell	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Mike Shea's message on REM RR models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4803	From: SSabino39@aol.com	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: no smoke AF312
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4804	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: AM GG-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4805	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: Sawmill - redone, but really done.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4806	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: Repaint or not repaint... that is the question.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4807	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 357
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4808	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Repainting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4809	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: '40 Ford
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4810	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: slobbering Pennsy freaks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4811	From: Robert Jio	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: 332 Northern marker lens
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4812	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Wax Paper
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4813	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Talking Toolshed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4814	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Reproduction AF Catalogs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4815	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Talking Toolshed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4816	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: ERTL Train Sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4817	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 362
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4818	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: 332 headlight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4819	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Reproduction AF Catalogs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4820	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: 332 headlight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4821	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Flyer mail car track device, and others?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4822	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: 332 headlight
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4823	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer mail car track device, and others?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4824	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Looking for help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4825	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: CTT interviews Maddox
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4826	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: To spray or not to spray?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4827	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: CTT interviews Maddox
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4828	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: CTT interviews Maddox
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4829	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: To spray or not to spray?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4830	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: CTT interviews Maddox
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4831	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer mail car track device, and others?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4832	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: digest Number 362
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4833	From: Richard	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Flyer..what's new??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4834	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Talking Toolshed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4835	From: John Foley	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4836	From: lifetalk.radio@cwix.com	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Trains are Fun
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4837	From: The Reis's	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Reproduction AF Catalogs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4838	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: St. Louis meet?????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4839	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: '56 Catalog
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4840	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: actuator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4841	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Train City
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4842	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 363
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4843	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: To spray or not to spray?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4844	From: JTMGoBlue@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: MESA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4845	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: York Badges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4846	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: LarsMail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4847	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: digest Number 362
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4848	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer..what's new??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4849	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: Trains are Fun
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4850	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: St. Louis meet?????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4851	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Jarcho's Sermon on the Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4852	From: michael prell	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Cow On Track Control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4853	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: Cow On Track Control
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4854	From: Tom Walker	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: AF loco whistle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4855	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: S-SCALE & 3rd RAIL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4856	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: Cancelled products
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4857	From: Scott Brown	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 362
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4858	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: comments on comments, digest#362
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4859	From: Scott Brown	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Alco PA Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4860	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: Alco PA Problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4861	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Sequencing Relays?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4862	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: St. Louis meet?????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4863	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Subject: comments on comments, digest#362
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4864	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Don T.'s Market Assessment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4865	From: John Foley	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4866	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Southwinds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4867	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: 3rdRAIL NO S SCALE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4868	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4869	From: John Foley	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: Zephyr
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4870	From: Andy McBride	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4871	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: values and restoration and maintenance
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4872	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: sequencing relays
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4873	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: 3rd RAIL EMAIL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4874	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Digest Number 365
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4875	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: [S-Scale] Digest Zephyr
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4876	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: digests 362&365
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4877	From: John Foley	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4878	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: digests 362&365
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4879	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4880	From: Richard	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Wow what a difference a day makes..WARNING
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4881	From: Richard	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Thankyou John
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4882	From: Ron Sebastian	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] 3rd RAIL EMAIL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4883	From: John Foley	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail Again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4884	From: Richard	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Brass Brass Brass!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4885	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 365
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4886	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: digest #365
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4887	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: American Models NYC Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4888	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: digest #365
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4889	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Great Layout Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4890	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Seaboard coaler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4891	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Sunset
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4892	From: Gale Hall	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: product selection
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4893	From: Richard	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: product selection
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4894	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Re: Wow what a difference a day makes..WARNING
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4895	From: Richard	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: How will SW1500's be marketed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4896	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Collectibles, Flyers, trains, etc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4897	From: Neil Trump	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: 336 to restore or not?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4898	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Re: digest #365
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4899	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Digest Number 366
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4900	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: VERY STRONG DISCUSSION
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4901	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Fw: [Fwd: REM]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4902	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Misc Diecast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4903	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Lionel info FYI, positive post, no flack....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4904	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Re: Seaboard coaler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4905	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Some notes on increasing S gauge participation.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4906	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Sunset
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4907	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Re: DC, etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4908	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: The perils of "advertising"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4909	From: Gary.L.Ippolito@xxxx.xxx.xxxx	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Lackawanna Heavyweights Wanted
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4910	From: Gary.L.Ippolito@xxxx.xxx.xxxx	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Lackawanna Heavyweights Wanted
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4911	From: J. Row	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: More on Authenticity of Originality
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4912	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Digest Number 368
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4913	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4914	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: coal loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4915	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: All Aboard Instructions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4916	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: AMERICAN FLYER 18 B
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4917	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Re: All Aboard Instructions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4918	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: 3rd RAIL MAKES SENSE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4919	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: The 'F' word in trains... (long post)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4920	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Digest Number 369
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4921	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: The Great Debate!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4922	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: coal loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4923	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Geez, calm down!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4924	From: michael prell	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: One Door Closes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4925	From: Andy McBride	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: One Door Closes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4926	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: AF layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4927	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: digest 365-trains 16
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4928	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: Southwinds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4929	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: The perils of "advertising"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4930	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: Southwinds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4931	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: digest 365-trains 16
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4932	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: One Door Closes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4933	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: REPLY FROM 3rd RAIL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4934	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: digested to death
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4935	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: digested to death
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4936	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: All Aboard Instructions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4937	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: More All Aboard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4938	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: $12.95?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4939	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: more thoughts on originalness
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4940	From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: digest 365-trains 16
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4941	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: A Fitting End
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4942	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: fixit posts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4943	From: RBaratta@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Traction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4944	From: Andy McBride	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Flyer + Marx = ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4945	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: traction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4946	From: Louis Glumac	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: ICQ IM's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4947	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Lionel Battery damage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4948	From: Bill Porter	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: A Procedural Note
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4949	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: digested to death
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4950	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer + Marx = ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4951	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel Battery damage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4952	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: digest 365-trains 16
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4953	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: A Fitting End
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4954	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: TCA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4955	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: L- Beacon Tower
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4956	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: On going remarks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4957	From: Andy McBride	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Fussing and fighting my friends
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4958	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: TIP: Use filters
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4959	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Germany Museum
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4960	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: All ABoard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4961	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Gabe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4962	From: jim	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: TCA grading
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4963	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: S-Helper switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4964	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: TCA grading
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4965	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Marx Accessory
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4966	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: Gabe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4967	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Soldering
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4968	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: Soldering
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4969	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: More on TCA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4970	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Flames
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4971	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Hey, where did you get that?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4972	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: Flames
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4973	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: TCA standards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4974	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: Flames
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4975	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: Flames
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4976	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: car washer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4977	From: Dennis Back	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: car washer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4978	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: carnival rides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4979	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: carnival rides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4980	From: David Golden	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: PLEASE!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4981	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: All Aboard!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4982	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: L- Airport Beacon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4983	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: "BLINKING TOWER"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4984	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: airport beacon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4985	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Car Washer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4986	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Flashing bulbs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4987	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: carnival rides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4988	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Carnival Rides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4989	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Re: airport beacon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4990	From: michael prell	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: American Flyer Circus Repro.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4991	From: John Foley	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Model Railroading on L.I.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4992	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Re: All Aboard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4993	From: Allen Evans	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: RibbonRail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4994	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Re: Carwasher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4995	From: Richard	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: MR on LI!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4996	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Re: RibbonRail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4997	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: AF 45 WATT TRANSFORMER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4998	From: Boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 372 S -scale Carnival
Group: S-Trains	Message: 4999	From: Allen Evans	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: The RibbonRail Question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5000	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Lledo diecast - 38 Chevy Delivery Truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5001	From: Ross M Roberts Sandra L Roberts	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: carnival rides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5002	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: S track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5003	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Re: Lledo diecast - 38 Chevy Delivery Truck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5004	From: Richard	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: RibbonRail...and eyes!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5005	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Plasticville
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5006	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Vermont trip
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5007	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: car washer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5008	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5009	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Plasticville coal tower
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5010	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville coal tower
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5011	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: airport beacon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5012	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5013	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5014	From: finerty, paul	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: 654 chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5015	From: L Montgomery	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 373
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5016	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: GFI's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5017	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Trasnsformer problem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5018	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: AMERICAN FLYER 45 WATT TRANSFORMER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5019	From: S-Trains-owner@onelist.com	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5020	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: AMERICAN FLYER 45 WATT TRANSFORMER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5021	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Electrical Considerations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5022	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Re: AMERICAN FLYER 45 WATT TRANSFORMER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5023	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Front truck for a 290 steamer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5024	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: :New England
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5025	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Re: carnival rides
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5026	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5027	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 374
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5028	From: John Foley	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Signs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5029	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: RULE OF THUMB: HOW MANY LIGHTS ON A DEDICATED TRANSFORMER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5030	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Re: A Fitting End
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5031	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: American Flyer 45 watt transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5032	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: American Flyer Whistle Billboards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5033	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Re: S-Helper switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5034	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: What Kind of money to take to York?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5035	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: $
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5036	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Syracuse NY train show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5037	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5038	From: Marc McCarron	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Re: York info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5039	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: New Survey
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5040	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Train show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5041	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Volts, amps, and watts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5042	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: switching layout plans
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5043	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Special Run S-Helper Service PS-2's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5044	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Re: York info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5045	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Re: York info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5046	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: Plasticville, York, Planks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5047	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: Watts next...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5048	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 376
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5049	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: York - Cash?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5050	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: Re: York
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5051	From: Neil Trump	Date: 9/21/1999
Subject: York meet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5052	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: derails and semaphores
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5053	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 9/21/1999
Subject: Flying Yankee
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5054	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 9/21/1999
Subject: 787 log loader?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5055	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/21/1999
Subject: Plasticville
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5056	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 376
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5057	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/21/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 376
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5058	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/22/1999
Subject: Re: Flying Yankee
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5059	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/22/1999
Subject: DCC in Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5060	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 9/22/1999
Subject: Lehigh Valley Models
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5061	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/22/1999
Subject: 787 log loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5062	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 9/22/1999
Subject: Fw: Charging for e-mail?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5063	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/23/1999
Subject: US Postal Service Hoax
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5064	From: Allen Evans	Date: 9/23/1999
Subject: ITS BOGUS - 5 Cent Charge For E-Mail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5065	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/23/1999
Subject: Internet hoaxes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5066	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/23/1999
Subject: Re: Internet hoaxes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5067	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/23/1999
Subject: Assorted photo albums
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5068	From: M.McConnell	Date: 9/23/1999
Subject: Fake message
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5069	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: promoting S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5070	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 380
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5071	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 380
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5072	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: Train stamps
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5073	From: Richard	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: Steam Depot Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5074	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5075	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: Lledo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5076	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: can't we all just get along (a flange question)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5077	From: MICHAEL J. HOLLAND	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: Fun Info
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5078	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5079	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5080	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: New Project Announcement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5081	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] New Project Announcement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5082	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: Re: Steam Depot engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5083	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: Recycling old PCs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5084	From: Richard	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Warning.....blatant advert!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5085	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Re: Steam Depot engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5086	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5087	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5088	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Flying Yankee offering
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5089	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5090	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5091	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5092	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5093	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Thanks CJSS and Catching up!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5094	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: S-Gauge Vehicle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5095	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: S-Gauge Vehicle
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5096	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: New Product Announcement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5097	From: Randy Reynolds	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 382
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5098	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: ZEPHYER / YANKEE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5099	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: A day at Strasburg Railroad
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5100	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Yankee Zephyr /Half way there
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5101	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: new loco BTS ltd edition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5102	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5103	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5104	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: Yankee Zephyr /Half way there
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5105	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5106	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: S scale War emergency Gon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5107	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Ebay shortcuts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5108	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: S scale War emergency Gon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5109	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5110	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5111	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5112	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5113	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: Steam Depot ??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5114	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Fw: Old cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5115	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5116	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5117	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: A Man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do...a.k.a BTS Steam Loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5118	From: ATXtrolley@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5119	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 384
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5120	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Fw: Old cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5121	From: Gale Hall	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Wood and metal kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5122	From: Heine, David L.	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Fw: Old cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5123	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: New loco, tinplate vs scale, etc etc etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5124	From: lifetalk.radio@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: old cars on layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5125	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Flying Yankee offering]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5126	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Smoke screen at last!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5127	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: kits
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5128	From: RRDART@aol.com	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5129	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: A Man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do...a.k.a BTS Steam Loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5130	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: September, 1998 NMRA BUlletin
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5131	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Gondola Loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5132	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: GILBERT AMERICAN FLYER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5133	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Re: Virginian Decals (was - September, 1998 NMRA BUlletin
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5134	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Re: Gondola Loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5135	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: new locos of ALL sorts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5136	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Re: new locos of ALL sorts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5137	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: get the L in phase
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5138	From: Louis Glumac	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: AF HO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5139	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: 21155
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5140	From: John Foley	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: NASG UP boxcar.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5141	From: Richard	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Listening, way down here!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5142	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: A Man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do...a.k.a BT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5143	From: Richard	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: A question for HiRailers etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5144	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Michigan
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5145	From: Richard	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: prototype for modeling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5146	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Lionel 1033 transformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5147	From: Don Abrams	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: AF 21004/21005 Pennsy B6
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5148	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Re: A question for HiRailers etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5149	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Fw: Re: Semaphores
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5150	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Gondola Loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5151	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: A Man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do...a.k.a
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5152	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: A Man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do...a.k.a BT
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5153	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: AF 21005 Switcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5154	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: AF 21004/21005 Pennsy B6
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5155	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: 1033
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5156	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: dim that dining car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5157	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: The L with it.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5158	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: AF 21004/21005 Pennsy B6
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5159	From: kelvin white	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: [S-Scale] Re: Enough of this.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5160	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Gondola loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5161	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: Gondola loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5162	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Milwaukee Road Geep
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5163	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: Gondola loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5164	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: dim that dining car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5165	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Hi-Railers Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5166	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Enough of this.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5167	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Enough of this.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5168	From: Al Muncy	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: 360-361
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5169	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: HiRail thoughts...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5170	From: Richard	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Thanks ..but more wanted..please!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5171	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: HiRail thoughts...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5172	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Enough of this
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5173	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Enough of this
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5174	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Hey, Flyer Folks!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5175	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: 1/64 scale Acme market tractor trailer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5176	From: Bill Porter	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Thanks ..but more wanted..please!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5177	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Gondola Loads
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5178	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: dim that dining car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5179	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Thanks ..but more wanted..please!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5180	From: STOUDT,KENNETH R.	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Misconception
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5181	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Misconception
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5182	From: Bill Porter	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Thanks ..but more wanted..please!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5183	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Misconception
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5184	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Trains!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5185	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: My Disappointment in The List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5186	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: for a switch....er
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5187	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Special Price Page
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5188	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: changing gauges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5189	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5190	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5191	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5192	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5193	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Hey Flyer Folks Survey
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5194	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5195	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Neat set on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5196	From: Richard	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: ore cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5197	From: Bill Porter	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: ore cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5198	From: Richard	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Limited Editions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5199	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5200	From: William H Trefts	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Gondola Loads & Magnets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5201	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5202	From: Richard	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5203	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: playing with trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5204	From: M.McConnell	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5205	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: A Job Well Done
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5206	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Sunday Topics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5207	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5208	From: TRITCHWC4I@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: changing gauges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5209	From: Richard	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Jump starting Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5210	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: HEY, FLYER FOLKS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5211	From: Jeffrey Madden	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: HEY, FLYER FOLKS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5212	From: Bill Porter	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: ore cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5213	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5214	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: Gondola Loads & Magnets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5215	From: Richard	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Numbers error
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5216	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: 1/64th 53 Corvette
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5217	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: 1/64th 53 Corvette
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5218	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: changing gauges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5219	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: frontiersman set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5220	From: Scott Brown	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Hmmm
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5221	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: HEY FLYER FOLKS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5222	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Couplers = ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5223	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: Couplers = ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5224	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: Couplers = ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5225	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: Couplers = ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5226	From: Brian Johns	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Jump starting Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5227	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Flying Yankee
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5228	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5229	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5230	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: :New England
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5231	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: Couplers = ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5232	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: frontiersman set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5233	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: Couplers = ???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5234	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: frontiersman set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5235	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: Flying Yankee
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5236	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Re: Flying Yankee
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5237	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: info wanted
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5238	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Sunday chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5239	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: It CAN be FUN here
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5240	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Re: Hey Flyer Folks!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5241	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: and the switcher is....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5242	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Re: Sunday chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5243	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Re: and the switcher is....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5244	From: William H Trefts	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Flying Yankee/Zephyr
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5245	From: William H Trefts	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Dream Starter Set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5246	From: Joseph F. Haughney	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Does Anyone know??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5247	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: S Scale Sale Change
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5248	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: rosemont Ill Train Show ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5249	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Better late than never....???????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5250	From: Brian Johns	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Backdrops?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5251	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Semaphore
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5252	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: semaphore
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5253	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Re: rosemont Ill Train Show ?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5254	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Duplicate photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5255	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Why S ( & Flyer...) and track!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5256	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Re: Duplicate photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5257	From: Andy McBride	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Chicago Hobby Show (RICTA)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5258	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Re: Why S ( & Flyer...) and track!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5259	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Santa's toy and train show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5260	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Re: Why S ( & Flyer...) and track!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5261	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Panoramic photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5262	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: SUNSET MODELS LATEST VIEW
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5263	From: Richard	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail and Sunset Soap
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5264	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Re: Chicago Hobby Show (RICTA)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5265	From: James B. Miller	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: 'S' scale schoolbus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5266	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: switcher...not
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5267	From: Mark Preman	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5268	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Re: [Why S ( & Flyer...) and track!]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5269	From: cbrf@xxxx.xxx	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Bill Krause
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5270	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Online Photos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5271	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Die-Cast Buses
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5272	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Mfr. Status Inquiry
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5273	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: photo archive
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5274	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Re: Mfr. Status Inquiry
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5275	From: M.McConnell	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Train Show in New Jersey
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5276	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: switchers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5277	From: Brian Johns	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Macintosh access to Sunday Nite Chat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5278	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Favorite Loco's
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5279	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Too much like Athearn?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5280	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: NEW Pennsy K-4 steamer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5281	From: Bob Lester	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5282	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Re: NEW Pennsy K-4 steamer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5283	From: Bob Lester	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 392
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5284	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Layout computer programs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5285	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Re: NEW Pennsy K-4 steamer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5286	From: Richard	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: dept 56 ..name
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5287	From: RRDART@aol.com	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: New list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5288	From: Richard	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: seen but not bought YET!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5289	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Racing Champions on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5290	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Athern and HO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5291	From: Michael Greene	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Re: Racing Champions on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5292	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Re: Racing Champions on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5293	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: NEW Pennsy K-4 steamer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5294	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Death of S Ga pioneer, his philosophy, misc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5295	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Racing Champions on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5296	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Flyer in Canada
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5297	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Too much like Athearn?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5298	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Racing Champions on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5299	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Starter Set Stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5300	From: Richard	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Starter Set Stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5301	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Starter Set Stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5302	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Wayne Can't Believe It!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5303	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: TurboCad Software
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5304	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Dept.56
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5305	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Too much like Athearn?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5306	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re-inventing the wheel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5307	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Athern
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5308	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Why S ( & Flyer...) and track!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5309	From: John Simkovich	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Lionel/American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5310	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: The joy of track, HO & S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5311	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Racing Champions on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5312	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5313	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: ebay-Studebaker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5314	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Athern
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5315	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Digest 395 Potpouri
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5316	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: CAD for trainz
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5317	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: ebay-Studebaker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5318	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Lionel/American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5319	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5320	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Wayne Can't Believe It!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5321	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5322	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5323	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Locomotive Test, AM Pacific and SHS SW-9
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5324	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5325	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: HiRail Survey
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5326	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: new locos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5327	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: AF Survey
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5328	From: JSBMLB@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5329	From: Jeffrey Madden	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5330	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5331	From: Richard	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Ahh...the right questions at last!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5332	From: Richard	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Dispatch??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5333	From: Strailway@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: ERTL
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5334	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Pikemaster switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5335	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Starter sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5336	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5337	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl sets, was, re: Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5338	From: Don Abrams	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Cow-on-Track Tip
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5339	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Re: Locomotive Test, AM Pacific and SHS SW-9
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5340	From: Amerflyr@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 396
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5341	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 396
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5342	From: Richard	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Kids and Ertl
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5343	From: Richard	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: The "Bachamnn" files
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5344	From: Richard	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: another thing!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5345	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5346	From: Richard	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Re: another thing!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5347	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: For a stinkin' little CAR?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5348	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Reverse Psychology
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5349	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: reverse psychology
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5350	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Re: another thing!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5351	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Random Thoughts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5352	From: Richard	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: how many
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5353	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: reverse psychology
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5354	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: East cost S activity, RR Track 2.5 program
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5355	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Survey of a week or so ago? and fun engines?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5356	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5357	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5358	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: another thing!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5359	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5360	From: Jphimmel6@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Transformer Buzz
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5361	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Mystery diesels on ebay #176352807
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5362	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: Transformer Buzz
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5363	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: Mystery diesels on ebay #176352807
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5364	From: Nerker, Robert	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: need help with brush soldering and alco gear question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5365	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Transformer Buzz
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5366	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Schlitz beer car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5367	From: Don Abrams	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Reverse Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5368	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Reverse Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5369	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Transformer Buzz
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5370	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: need help with brush soldering and alco gear question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5371	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: need help with brush soldering and alco gear question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5372	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 398
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5373	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: buzz & brushes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5374	From: Richard	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Park Toys 1:55
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5375	From: James B. Miller	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: starter sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5376	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Reverse Units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5377	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 398
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5378	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: another thing!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5379	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Flyer F-Units on e-Bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5380	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: transformer buzz
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5381	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: New Trains Homepage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5382	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: transformer buzz
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5383	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: transformer buzz
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5384	From: Michael Greene	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: starter sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5385	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: transformer buzz
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5386	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Price Guide
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5387	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Fast Trains starter set.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5388	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: e-bay Af gp-7 rare371
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5389	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Late Flyer Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5390	From: Jphimmel6@aol.com	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 399
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5391	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Late Flyer Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5392	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: 371 for over a thousand dollars?!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5393	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: 371 on e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5394	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: e-bay Af gp-7 rare371
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5395	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: starter sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5396	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Another Great deal on ebay!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5397	From: RRDART@aol.com	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: one64brass list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5398	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5399	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Jess Bennett's Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5400	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Maurer Rare Coins on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5401	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Another Great deal on ebay!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5402	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5403	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: ongoing discussions (not mine) re, Lionel, future of model RR, etc
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5404	From: Dave Ewing	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Maurer Rare Coins on ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5405	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: ICE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5406	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5407	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Acela starter set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5408	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: New trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5409	From: Richard	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Acela
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5410	From: Michael Greene	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Acela
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5411	From: Richard	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Octember
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5412	From: Richard	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Dept56
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5413	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Late Flyer Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5414	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Jess Bennett's Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5415	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5416	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Standards
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5417	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5418	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: Jess Bennett's Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5419	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: NEW DEPT 56 TRAIN?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5420	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: AMTRAK ACELA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5421	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Digest Number 401
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5422	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: 371
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5423	From: Don Abrams	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: 371 auction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5424	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: starter sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5425	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: More from the same seller
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5426	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: 371
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5427	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: 371 on e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5428	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: 371
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5429	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Fw: Possible Fraud
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5430	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Tonka Toys!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5431	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: More from the same seller
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5432	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Product Review - 3 Diecast Buses from Llillian Vernon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5433	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: NEW DEPT 56 TRAIN?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5434	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: NEW DEPT 56 TRAIN?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5435	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Train clubs in Huston
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5436	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: More from the same seller
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5437	From: Richard	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Dept56 "Nessie"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5438	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: cowland store with 1/64 vehicles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5439	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Fw: Possible Fraud
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5440	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: art vs. model RR, tinplate vs. scale?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5441	From: Steve Roche	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Painting steam engines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5442	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Digest Number 402
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5443	From: Andy McBride	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: art vs. model RR: tinplate vs. scale?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5444	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: NEW TRAIN SET?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5445	From: Nerker, Robert	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: advice from the experts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5446	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: dissastisfied customer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5447	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: dissatisfied customer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5448	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Which Track?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5449	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Re: dissastisfied customer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5450	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Re: Which Track?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5451	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: foam core board
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5452	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: LARSPAINTR's musings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5453	From: Bruce Crosby	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: A special question on Big L
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5454	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Re: foam core board
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5455	From: Richard	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: foamcore
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5456	From: Tom Young	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: 371 auction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5457	From: Cheri221@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Fwd: item on eBay web site item#176104615: 334DC " WARNING PLEASE...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5458	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Re: 371 We got 'em!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5459	From: bob walsh	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: Ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5460	From: John Simkovich	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: Painting Steam Locomotives
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5461	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: eBay prices
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5462	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: eBay prices
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5463	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: WHICH TRACK?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5464	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: What a bargain!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5465	From: HSJOBBINS@aol.com	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: Trackage : American Models .148
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5466	From: Don Abrams	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: Wish List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5467	From: S-Trains-owner@onelist.com	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5468	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: You can get anything you want at eBay restaurant....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5469	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: York show on the net LIVE!! Check this out!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5470	From: Richard	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: York show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5471	From: Richard	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: Whole lot of shakin' going on!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5472	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: Word Wrap
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5473	From: Richard	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: Dept 56 set???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5474	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: Re: NEW DEPT 56 TRAIN?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5475	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: Re: Painting Steam Locomotives
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5476	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: painting steam locomotives
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5477	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/17/1999
Subject: Re: Word Wrap
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5478	From: John Foley	Date: 10/17/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5479	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/17/1999
Subject: Guinness loco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5480	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/17/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5481	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/17/1999
Subject: Think Ahead
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5482	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5483	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Flyer TTOF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5484	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer TTOF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5485	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: He's back!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5486	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Corrected link to Amazon.com auction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5487	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: York
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5488	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: long messages <<>>
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5489	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer TTOF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5490	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Re: York
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5491	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: San Francisco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5492	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5493	From: William H Trefts	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Zephyr
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5494	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: flyonel TOFC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5495	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Re: Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5496	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: WHY EBAY OR AMAZON
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5497	From: Andy McBride	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: WHY EBAY OR AMAZON
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5498	From: William H Trefts	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Fall S-Fest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5499	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Re: Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no? >>
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5500	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: What should have been made but wasn't/ was WHY EBAY OR AMAZON
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5501	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Re: WHY EBAY OR AMAZON
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5502	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Re: WHY EBAY OR AMAZON
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5503	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: S starter set For Sale....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5504	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: crossings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5505	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Re: Fall S-Fest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5506	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Re: Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5507	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Re: Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no? >>
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5508	From: Russcalla@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 407
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5509	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: S Fest Scheduling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5510	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: What Flyer Might Have Done
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5511	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Reader's Digest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5512	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: 751 log loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5513	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Fw: Auction ID: 1015A718669
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5514	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 407
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5515	From: bulamatare1	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: 752 Seaboard Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5516	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: The variety is a good thing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5517	From: Andy McBride	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Santa and American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5518	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Fwd: Re: Trolleys
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5519	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Santa and American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5520	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: live video layout tours
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5521	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Fw: Auction ID: 1015A718669
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5522	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: answering Andy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5523	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: What Flyer Might Have Done
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5524	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no? >>
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5525	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Flyer FS NIB folks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5526	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: answering Andy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5527	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Rolling Stock Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5528	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Old Product Inquiry
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5529	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: answering Andy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5530	From: ClaimsBoss@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Used AF Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5531	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Geeps & track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5532	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: answering Andy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5533	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Answering Paul D. Schneider
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5534	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: answering Andy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5535	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Geeps & track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5536	From: esquivel	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: answering Andy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5537	From: bob walsh	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: For that hard to buy for collector friend...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5538	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Paul Nelson's AF book
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5539	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: fantasy, imagination and Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5540	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: compassion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5541	From: Alan Evans	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: AM Code 148 NS non-weathered track orders
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5542	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Fantasy, imagination, Flyer, e-bay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5543	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5544	From: J. F. Haughney	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: New Lionel Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5545	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Rolling stock questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5546	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: For Paul
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5547	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Re: Cincinnati Union Terminal Layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5548	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Nashville!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5549	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: NIB S stuff, possible repost
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5550	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Digest Number 410
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5551	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Digest Number 410
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5552	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Why no Flyer freight sets?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5553	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Rail Passes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5554	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: those Flyer Baldwins switchers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5555	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Gilbert's demise
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5556	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Re: Paul Nelson's AF book
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5557	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: A Late Apology
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5558	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: AF HO 433 0-6-0
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5559	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Best "coal" to use?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5560	From: RRDART@aol.com	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Re: Best "coal" to use?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5561	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Re: Best "coal" to use?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5562	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: S Fest & Other Stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5563	From: george	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: A scaler awash in a sea of Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5564	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Re: Best "coal" to use?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5565	From: Ross M Roberts Sandra L Roberts	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: S Related Items
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5566	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: marketing disaster book
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5567	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: If the Flyer die went elsewhere
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5568	From: Dale Smith	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Gilbert licensing agreements
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5569	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Re: If the Flyer die went elsewhere
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5570	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: AF NORTHERN-PLASTIC TENDER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5571	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Re: A scaler awash in a sea of Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5572	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Gilbert's Gory Days
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5573	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Re: AF NORTHERN-PLASTIC TENDER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5574	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: 21140 plastic tender
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5575	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Re: A scaler awash in a sea of Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5576	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Fall S Fest
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5577	From: Tom Young	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: E-Unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5578	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Re: A scaler awash in a sea of Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5579	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: outrageuos ebays
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5580	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Re: A scaler awash in a sea of Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5581	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Re: A scaler awash in a sea of Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5582	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: New Survey
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5583	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Gilbert's demise
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5584	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5585	From: george	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: S Scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5586	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Digest Number 412
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5587	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Digest Number 412
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5588	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: GE RTV silicone molding coupound-
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5589	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: GE RTV silicone molding coupound-
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5590	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: New SHS webpages
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5591	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: Rebuilts & 3 car sets arrive
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5592	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: How L got the Flyer tooling
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5593	From: plotnick	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Starter Sets and All Aboard Panels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5594	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5595	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: lti coaches and flyer curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5596	From: Michael Greene	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Haunted House anyone?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5597	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5598	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5599	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5600	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5601	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5602	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5603	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: AF fakes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5604	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: lti coaches and flyer curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5605	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: lti coaches and flyer curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5606	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: Re: AF couplers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5607	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: Re: lti coaches and flyer curves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5608	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5609	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: A.C. Gilbert Tour
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5610	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert Tour
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5611	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5612	From: Dave Heine	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: Apology for Layout Failure to Run (Dave Heine)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5613	From: Joseph F. Haughney	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5614	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Fwd: virus alert
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5615	From: John Foley	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: The Scale Card
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5616	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: The Scale Card
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5617	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: track plan book, hacking & swing AF track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5618	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: [Fwd: My Forums for Roger Hinds]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5619	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: [track plan book, hacking & swing AF track]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5620	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: cutting AF track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5621	From: M.McConnell	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Track/Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5622	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: [track plan book, hacking & swing AF track]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5623	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: cutting AF track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5624	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: CB&Q PA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5625	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: jumpy Flyer switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5626	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: CB&Q PA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5627	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: Track/Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5628	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: Track/Switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5629	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/26/1999
Subject: Re: cutting AF track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5630	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/26/1999
Subject: A last gasp- Reality check, S vs. O?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5631	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track Plans book
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5632	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/26/1999
Subject: power to the people
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5633	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/26/1999
Subject: Flying Yankee
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5634	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: template
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5635	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Re: template
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5636	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Re: Xformer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5637	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Transformer whistle buttons and running DC engines on AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5638	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: details, details
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5639	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Re: S template
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5640	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: More details
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5641	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Re: More details
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5642	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Black Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5643	From: Tim Burkhart	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Re: More details
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5644	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Loose AF Turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5645	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Paul Schneider's Many Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5646	From: Dave Ewing	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: he's back
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5647	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: black track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5648	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 416
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5649	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 417
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5650	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Toy Train Review Online
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5651	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: American Flyer New Production
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5652	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Photos of the NEW AF stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5653	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 417
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5654	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Re: MRC 027
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5655	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Vacaction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5656	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: 690s needed/pins for track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5657	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Questions on Train City
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5658	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: New Flyer SF geep
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5659	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Re: Questions on Train City
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5660	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Re: New Flyer SF Geep
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5661	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: solid state reverse devices
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5662	From: Steve Roche	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Royal Blue painting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5663	From: RobertE613@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Subject: Re: Questions on Train City
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5664	From: Larry Oberman	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Train City
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5665	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Questions on Train City
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5666	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Lionel ?? What Quality
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5667	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Fw: Lionel ?? What Quality
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5668	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Racing Champions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5669	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5670	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Re: More details
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5671	From: FKopetz@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: LTI-AF UP Pony Express Set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5672	From: Richard	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: new record...3 weeks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5673	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: new record...3 weeks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5674	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Sprues
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5675	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5676	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Sprues
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5677	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: NASG Online Membership Directory
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5678	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel ?? What Quality
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5679	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Pony Express
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5680	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Set Database
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5681	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel/American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5682	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: GAds, OLD posting showing up!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5683	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel/American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5684	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 419 - road variations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5685	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Fireboxes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5686	From: Richard	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 419 - road variations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5687	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Lionel/American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5688	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel/American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5689	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel/American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5690	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Late Flyer Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5691	From: The Reis's	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: LTI-AF UP Pony Express Set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5692	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Dispatch??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5693	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Current Survey
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5694	From: James C. Knight	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Set Database
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5695	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: New Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5696	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 420
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5697	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Switcher = shifter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5698	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Age Demographics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5699	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Re: New Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5700	From: Neil Trump	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Switcher = shifter
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5701	From: Richard	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: heir apparent??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5702	From: Marty Cook	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Gilbert Reproductions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5703	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Royal Blue paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5704	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Unidentified American Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5705	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5706	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Dispatch??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5707	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Weekend Potpourie
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5708	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: OCTOBER DISPATCH?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5709	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5710	From: Nerker, Robert	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: question on scenery
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5711	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Vauclain compound setup information wanted.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5712	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Re: Vauclain compound setup information wanted.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5713	From: Kelvin White	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Age Demographics
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5714	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Racing Champions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5715	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: running DC engines on AC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5716	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Royal Blue repainting
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5717	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 421
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5718	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Fall S Fest in St. Louis, MO
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5719	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Checkerboard Water Tower
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5720	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Checkerboard water tower
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5721	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Surplus Tractor / All Parts International
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5722	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Re: Train City Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5723	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Re: Train City Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5724	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: Paul Yorke
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5725	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: Watertower repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5726	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: AF Burlington Northern
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5727	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: Reply to "Trainorama"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5728	From: D Simon	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: Scale help
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5729	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: AF "O" Circles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5730	From: Train Collectors Association	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: Re: AF "O" Circles
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5731	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Module Corner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5732	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: ATSF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5733	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Checkerboard Redo
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5734	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: A F O-gauge curve sections
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5735	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: SCALE HELP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5736	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: ATTENTION SCALERS-WHEEL SWAP
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5737	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Traintown anyone?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5738	From: Bill Clark	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Re: Traintown anyone?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5739	From: Ron Sebastian	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: 2 Great S Scalers - Plus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5740	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Uh oh, lost one!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5741	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Starter sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5742	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: 596 without arrow?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5743	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Circus set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5744	From: Robert Hegadorn	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Sunset Mike Project
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5745	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Re: Sunset Mike Project
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5746	From: Michael Greene	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Re: Starter sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5747	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: 596 arrow
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5748	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 11/4/1999
Subject: 1/64th Walmart Pick-up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5749	From: John Foley	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: PA. Heritage web-site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5750	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/4/1999
Subject: Sam's door spring
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5751	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 11/4/1999
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5752	From: John Foley	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: Re: Sunset Mike Project
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5753	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: Re: SAM
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5754	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5755	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: American Models Customer Service
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5756	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: SHS Customer Service
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5757	From: The Reis's	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: Extra S-Gauge Heralds 1962-1978
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5758	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: Accessory Repair
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5759	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: Re: New S Gauge Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5760	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5761	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: Back from Houston
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5762	From: Marty Cook	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: Prewar Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5763	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: THE Bible About AF Sets Now Available
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5764	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: O gauge Flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5765	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: penetrating oil and corroding white metal
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5766	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: New Flyer cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5767	From: Brian Johns	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: **CAUGHT IN THE ACT!**
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5768	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: Re: New Flyer cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5769	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: New Bus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5770	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: "casual" & "serious" bidding
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5771	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Paul's Update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5772	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Re: Prewar parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5773	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Re: S crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5774	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Subscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5775	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5776	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Lionel Help!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5777	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel Help!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5778	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Whaaat?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5779	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Re: THE Bible About AF Sets Now Available
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5780	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: THE Bible About AF Sets Now Available
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5781	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Digest Number 427
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5782	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: UMD Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5783	From: Andy McBride	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: "casual" & "serious" bidding
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5784	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: UMD Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5785	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: UMD Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5786	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: O ga carz on S trux?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5787	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: O ga carz on S trux?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5788	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: UMD Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5789	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: UMD Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5790	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: O ga carz on S trux?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5791	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: UMD Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5792	From: Neil Trump	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Overseas purchasing from ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5793	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] UMD Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5794	From: Michael Greene	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: Overseas purchasing from ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5795	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Friendly Train Store!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5796	From: Bill Porter	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: Overseas purchasing from ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5797	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: just questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5798	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: AF 772 Checkerboard tower
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5799	From: Neil Trump	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: Overseas purchasing from ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5800	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: Overseas purchasing from ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5801	From: Michael Greene	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: Overseas purchasing from ebay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5802	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: New S Gauge Starter Sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5803	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: AF 772 Checkerboard tower
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5804	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: junk box
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5805	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Fw: Food For Thought : SANTA AND THE SOLDIER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5806	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Soldier Claus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5807	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Roseville, CA show
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5808	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Fw: Food For Thought : SANTA AND THE SOLDIER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5809	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Soldier Claus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5810	From: Andy McBride	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Fw: Food For Thought : SANTA AND THE SOLDIER
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5811	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: 1968 AF Set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5812	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: 770 man
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5813	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: destination for your S Helper Covered Hoppers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5814	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: International Sales on eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5815	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5816	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Holy Cow
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5817	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: bubbler and beacon
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5818	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: A yard of cabeese
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5819	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Holy Cow
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5820	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Holy Cow
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5821	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Soldier Claus
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5822	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Santa /Soldiier
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5823	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: International
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5824	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Hoffa Cement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5825	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Holy Cow
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5826	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Holy Cow
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5827	From: Richard	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Hoffa cement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5828	From: Jarcho	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: holy cow
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5829	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: A.F. Accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5830	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: copy and delete
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5831	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: converting PRS cars to hi-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5832	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Ace/Downs trucks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5833	From: Ron Sebastian	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: converting PRS cars to hi-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5834	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Mystic Talking Station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5835	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Mystic Talking Station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5836	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: converting PRS cars to hi-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5837	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 430
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5838	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Feet fiber
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5839	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Baldwins
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5840	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Flyer DCC'ers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5841	From: Dennis Back	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Cow Feet fiber Shaving
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5842	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Mystic Talking Station reproducer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5843	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer DCC'ers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5844	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Holy Cow
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5845	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: eBay Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5846	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Bum steer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5847	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: what I want for Christmas
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5848	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Hiawatha
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5849	From: Dennis Back	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Site for Hiawatha Train/Shell
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5850	From: ClaimsBoss@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5851	From: MWelbornjr@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: help needed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5852	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: SHS service with a smile.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5853	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5854	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: U.M.D. "S" Gauge Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5855	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Bum steer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5856	From: Richard	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Back-hoe..dirt cheap!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5857	From: Richard	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Back Hoe addendum
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5858	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: more questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5859	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: converting PRS cars to hi-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5860	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Seaboard Coaler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5861	From: Roger Petrella	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 431,ebay humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5862	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: SHS service
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5863	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5864	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Reproducer; cow's feet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5865	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5866	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: more questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5867	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5868	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5869	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Double Vision
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5870	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5871	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5872	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Fw: [S-Scale] S Scale B&O Laser-cut Station Kit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5873	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: Seaboard Coaler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5874	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5875	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: converting PRS cars to hi-rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5876	From: John Foley	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Northern Pacific AF set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5877	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: Reproducers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5878	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: Talking Stations
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5879	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: Hiawatha
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5880	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: Vibrating mats
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5881	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5882	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Die-Cast
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5883	From: bgaylord@mnic.net	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Reproducer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5884	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: More eBay humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5885	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: More eBay humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5886	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Stockyard mats
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5887	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Re: weighting carz
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5888	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Convert Pacific Rail Shop Kits to Hi-rail?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5889	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Talking Station Reproducer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5890	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Re: More eBay humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5891	From: Dennis Back	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Re: Talking Station Reproducer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5892	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Streamlined aluminum coaches (or opportunity only knocks once)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5893	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Industrail cabooses
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5894	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5895	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Re: Streamlined aluminum coaches (or opportunity only knocks once)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5896	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5897	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: E Bay humor
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5898	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: S-Trains Gift Registry
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5899	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Re: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5900	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Whats going on in Frisco?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5901	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Telephone lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5902	From: Dennis Back	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5903	From: Richard	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Re telephone line ( No ..not ELO)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5904	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5905	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Reproducer Reproducer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5906	From: Lewis Webb	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: American Flyer Reproduction Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5907	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Double slips & misc.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5908	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: help!orphan seeking family!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5909	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5910	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5911	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: New Repro Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5912	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Crescent Conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5913	From: Bill Clark	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Crescent Conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5914	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: S-Trains Gift Registry
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5915	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Fwd: 2000 S-ga crane
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5916	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: 771 like mine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5917	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: ramp mat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5918	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: glue and Hiawatha
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5919	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: fuzz for feet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5920	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Killing evil rumor--I'm not going to O!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5921	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Mat material, untested idea
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5922	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer Reproduction Coal Loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5923	From: ROGER HINDS	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5924	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Ebay and Auctions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5925	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Market Research-Narrow Tie, Rubber Roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5926	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Market Research-Narrow Tie, Rubber Roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5927	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5928	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Market Research-Narrow Tie, Rubber Roadbed
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5929	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: What Engine am I looking for? (Old West Steam)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5930	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5931	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5932	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Auction
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5933	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Gilbert reproductions.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5934	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Replacement mat material for Stockyard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5935	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Utility lines in 'S' Gauge
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5936	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: OLD TIMER STUFF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5937	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: Replacement mat material for Stockyard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5938	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Some transformer discussions from another list.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5939	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5940	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: 2nd attempt
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5941	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: S-Gaugian
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5942	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: 2nd attempt
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5943	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: OLD TIMER STUFF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5944	From: Richard	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Action Set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5945	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: Ballston Locomotive Works
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5946	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: OLD TIMER STUFF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5947	From: bob walsh	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Bachmann On30 Freight for conversion to "S"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5948	From: George Leonard	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: 322 Brass Smoke tube
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5949	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: cattle yard and feet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5950	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: Just a thought to the list.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5951	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: Re: OLD TIMER STUFF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5952	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: Re: cattle yard and feet
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5953	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: AF Set Book and eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5954	From: Neil Trump	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: Gargraves switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5955	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: free beer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5956	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: Re: OLD TIMER STUFF
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5957	From: Mark Preman	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Response to Gift Registry and Repro Reproducers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5958	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: GREEN GENERAL?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5959	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Gilbert reproductions.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5960	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: wild prices
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5961	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: AF set book
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5962	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian & Flyer coverage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5963	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian & Flyer coverage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5964	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian & Flyer coverage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5965	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: free beer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5966	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: AF Set Book and eBay
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5967	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert reproductions.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5968	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: S Guagian vs Dispatch ? uh oh!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5969	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: free beer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5970	From: SSabino39@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: gilbert atomic energy set
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5971	From: SSabino39@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: free beer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5972	From: Dennis Back	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Cheap hand-held A.C. controller?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5973	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Local Train shows, S seller there!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5974	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Train Show Times??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5975	From: Richard	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: what is Dog and Pony??
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5976	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5977	From: Ron Sebastian	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: New S Scale America Hoppers Arrive
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5978	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 440
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5979	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Christmas, bah humbug!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5980	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: X-mas, bah humbug
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5981	From: The Reis's	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Re: free beer,cheap trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5982	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Re: Christmas, bah humbug!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5983	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Re: Christmas, bah humbug!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5984	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Christmas layouts and stories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5985	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Re: Christmas, bah humbug!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5986	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Christmas and AF!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5987	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Re: Christmas, bah humbug!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5988	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Christmas Layouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5989	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Re: Christmas, bah humbug!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5990	From: bgaylord@mnic.net	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: reproducer conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5991	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Mini Funnels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5993	From: John Simkovich	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: building blocks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5994	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Racing Champions Mint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5995	From: mary jo shutt	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: wheel wobble
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5996	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Gift Registry
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5997	From: mark a lambert	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: COAL LOADER BUCKET NEEDED
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5998	From: MYTRAINS@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 442 building blocks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 5999	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6000	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Re: typos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6001	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 442
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6002	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Re: COAL LOADER BUCKET NEEDED--good luck!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6003	From: anaoa gellengerg	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6004	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: anaoa gellengerg
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6005	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6006	From: Gary.L.Ippolito@xxxx.xxx.xxx	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: typos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6007	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Doug's Comments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6008	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: COAL LOADER BUCKET NEEDED
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6009	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: COAL LOADER BUCKET NEEDED
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6010	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: AM questions/answers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6011	From: Richard	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Trucks in scale!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6012	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Trucks in scale!!--JOKE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6013	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: typos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6014	From: Richard	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Literacy and such
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6015	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: World's Largest S-Scale Model
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6016	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Literacy and such (Off Topic)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6017	From: Richard	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: Literacy and such (Off Topic)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6018	From: Richard	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: re worlds largest S scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6019	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: language
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6020	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: diesel rebush
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6021	From: aztecfan@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: CHRISTMAS S GAUGE
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6022	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Hopper car roofs.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6023	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Power Problems Cont.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6024	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: Power Problems Cont.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6025	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Don't Correct Grammar!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6026	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Spam on the list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6027	From: Andy McBride	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Spam on the list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6028	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Power
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6029	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: Hopper car roofs.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6030	From: Dave Ewing	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: off subject
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6031	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Engine stuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6032	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: Doug's Comments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6033	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: Doug's Comments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6034	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: re worlds largest S scale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6035	From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6036	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 444
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6037	From: Richard	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: we are not alone!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6038	From: Peter W. Nichols	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6039	From: Richard	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Kids arent afraid of kits!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6040	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: The topic of discussion is trains (S gauge, of course).
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6041	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: Power
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6042	From: Lamont Cranston	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: enough
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6043	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Re: enough
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6044	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Modules
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6045	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Dogg'n it
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6046	From: Gary.L.Ippolito@xxxx.xxx.xxx	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Hopefully the final post about Doug's comments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6047	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Let's End It!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6048	From: Dalessandro, David L TL13C	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Realism with Structures, I need input!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6049	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: power problems
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6050	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: So good, I cross posted this to the S-List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6051	From: Bristol, Kirk	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Re: we are not alone!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6052	From: Richard	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: kids'n'trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6053	From: Bristol, Kirk	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Re: Realism with Structures, I need input!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6054	From: RRDART@aol.com	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Hopefully the final post about Doug's comments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6055	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Power
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6056	From: Gary.L.Ippolito@clev.frb.org	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Cleveland Browns - way off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6057	From: NYC17819@aol.com	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Power
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6058	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re: Realism with Structures, I need input!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6059	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re: Realism with Structures, I need input!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6060	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: kids`n' trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6061	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re; Realism with structures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6062	From: MWelbornjr@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: AF #20425 Set question???
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6063	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re: Power
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6064	From: mark.p.baker@xx.xxx	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6065	From: Fred Alles	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Track power and cleaning
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6066	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Track power
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6067	From: Bill Rodgers	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: unsubscribe
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6068	From: Richard	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: many ways to pique the kkids
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6069	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re: Realism with Structures, I need input!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6070	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re: modules
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6071	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re: modules
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6072	From: Robert Morrison	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Modules
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6073	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: Re: popularizing S- tis the season!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6074	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: Re: modules
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6075	From: Ross M Roberts Sandra L Roberts	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: Wiring
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6076	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: updated module site
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6077	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6078	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: roberts and MTH accessories
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6079	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Re: MTH
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6080	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Thanks, everybody on both lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6081	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Dept. 56 Buildings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6082	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: Re: SHS 2000 catalog
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6083	From: plotnick	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Toy Story 2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6084	From: plotnick	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Toy Story 2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6085	From: Richard McClary	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Re: Toy Story 2
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6086	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Ho Ho HO - O vs. S , and the winner is.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6087	From: bob walsh	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Ho Ho HO - O vs. S , and the winner is.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6088	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: o27 vs. S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6089	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: kids and gauges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6090	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: FAQ about Diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6091	From: MWelbornjr@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Wanted!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6092	From: Scott Brown	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Gilbert Reproductions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6093	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Re: LARSPAINTER gpong to "O"
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6094	From: Marty Cook	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: S-Trains Digest Number 446, Message 9
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6095	From: Marty Cook	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: S-Trains Digest Number 447, Message 3
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6096	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Re: Ho Ho HO - O vs. S , and the winner is.....
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6097	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Re: Wanted!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6098	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6099	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Modules
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6100	From: aztecfan@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: LIONEL PARTS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6101	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Lionel parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6102	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Lionel New Haven electric
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6103	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Triple S
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6104	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Triple S Supplies
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6105	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Lars Goes Back to Mars, Chris Finds Some Cheap Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6106	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Cleveland Browns - way off topic
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6107	From: Bristol, Kirk	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Drum Loader Review
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6108	From: The Reis's	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Grades
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6109	From: The Reis's	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: package payments
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6110	From: Jim and Vicky	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Passager car paper insert / paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6111	From: Ross M Roberts Sandra L Roberts	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: 969 Rocket Launcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6112	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Triple S Website
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6113	From: Jarcho	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: grades
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6114	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Re: Passager car paper insert / paint
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6115	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Triple S Website
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6116	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel New Haven electric
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6117	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: 969 Rocket Launcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6118	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 451
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6119	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: TTOS 2000 AF cars - update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6120	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: TTOS 2000 AF cars - update
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6121	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: S-Trains -pass cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6122	From: ROGER HINDS	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Molds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6123	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Molds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6124	From: Alan Bataille	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Talk To Us - Website]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6125	From: Cynthia M. Wahl	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: cleaning track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6126	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Molds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6127	From: JoeAWood@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 451
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6128	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: cleaning track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6129	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: cleaning track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6130	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Molds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6131	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Molds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6132	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: cleaning track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6133	From: Robert Morrison	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: 4 wheel passenger trucks?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6134	From: Alan Bataille	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Talk To Us - Website]]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6135	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: new haven orange
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6136	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: L-word EP5
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6137	From: bob walsh	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Lionel made AF EP5
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6138	From: D Simon	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: New set book
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6139	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: K771 Stockyard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6140	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Kid'S' Excitement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6141	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: Kid'S' Excitement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6142	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: Molds
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6143	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: Kid'S' Excitement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6144	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: next batch of SW-9's and New sets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6145	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: 1955 AF GP7
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6146	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: 1955 AF GP7
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6147	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: K771 Stockyard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6148	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: Kid'S' Excitement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6149	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: 1955 GP-7
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6150	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Smoke & Chuff
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6151	From: D Simon	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Set help Please
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6152	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: Kid's Excitement
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6153	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: coral and geep
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6154	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: slower fwd than reverse
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6155	From: Chaudiere, Dale	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Sluggish Alco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6156	From: MWelbornjr@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: TTOS AF cars????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6157	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: Sluggish Alco
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6158	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: TTOS AF cars????
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6159	From: Brent Hjermstad	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 453
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6160	From: noramz@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: slower fwd than reverse
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6161	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 453
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6162	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 453
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6163	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Slot-car racing sets!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6164	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: Slot-car racing sets!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6165	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: 1955 GP-7
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6166	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: Slot cars with S gauge.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6167	From: Neil Trump	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: 1955 GP-7
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6168	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: Re: faster in reverse than forward
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6169	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: Re: armatures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6170	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6171	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: New S scale decals
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6172	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: Re: faster in reverse than forward
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6173	From: John Simkovich	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: MOTORS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6174	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: New Years Eve Celebration
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6175	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 12/4/1999
Subject: K325 acting up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6176	From: neil.trump@xx.xxx	Date: 12/4/1999
Subject: Re: K325 acting up
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6177	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/4/1999
Subject: Re: New Years Eve Celebration
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6178	From: RobertE613@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/4/1999
Subject: MTH Z4000 question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6179	From: Richard	Date: 12/4/1999
Subject: A funny thing happened on the way to the convention!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6180	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 12/4/1999
Subject: Year 2000 Virginia Train Collectors Club Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6181	From: Drgw489@aol.com	Date: 12/5/1999
Subject: Photos posted
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6182	From: Michael Greene	Date: 12/5/1999
Subject: Another successful weekend of running S gauge trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6183	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/5/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6184	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 12/5/1999
Subject: S scale model of Cincinnati
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6185	From: AFSTrains@aol.com	Date: 12/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 457
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6186	From: yorke@xxxx.xxx	Date: 12/6/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6187	From: Bill Clark	Date: 12/6/1999
Subject: Bristol Club at Greenberg
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6188	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/6/1999
Subject: A Kid Again
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6189	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 12/6/1999
Subject: Modified AF Hudson
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6190	From: Bill Clark	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: Re: A Kid Again SHS Catalog
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6191	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: Faster rev than fwd - - timing
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6192	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: Catalog.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6193	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: transformers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6194	From: softmoods@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: Backshop E-Mail List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6195	From: Bill Porter	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] track expansion and Directional Armatures
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6196	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: Re: Catalog.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6197	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: catalog
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6198	From: Mark Preman	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6199	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: SW-9
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6200	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: 1/64 scale cars from Playboy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6201	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: Turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6202	From: Lamont Cranston	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: #6/#8 turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6203	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: K Mart
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6204	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: Re: Turnouts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6205	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: Re: 1/64 scale cars from Playboy
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6206	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: non-whistling billboard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6207	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 460
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6208	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: non-whistling billboard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6209	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: Re: non-whistling billboard
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6210	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: On3 Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6211	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: busses
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6212	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: Re: On3 Passenger Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6213	From: Richard	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: Re: busses
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6214	From: Rosiep3@aol.com	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: No cow catcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6215	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Digest Number 461
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6216	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Slugish K325
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6217	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: no cowcatcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6218	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: SMOKE UNITS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6219	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Whistle fixes
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6220	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Re: SMOKE UNITS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6221	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: smoke units
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6222	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 461
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6223	From: ROGER HINDS	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Power drops
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6224	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6225	From: Richard McClary	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Re: busses
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6226	From: MWelbornjr@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: AF Question...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6227	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Re: AF Question...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6228	From: Steve Roche	Date: 12/11/1999
Subject: Seaboard Coaler wiring
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6229	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/11/1999
Subject: Steam Whistles (12in=1ft)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6230	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/11/1999
Subject: Re: for Tom Jarcho
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6231	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/11/1999
Subject: Re: Power drops
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6232	From: Tom and Louise	Date: 12/11/1999
Subject: Re: Power drops
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6233	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/11/1999
Subject: Re: AF Question...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6234	From: Stephen V. Anderson	Date: 12/12/1999
Subject: 785 Seabord Coaler
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6235	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/12/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6236	From: ROGER HINDS	Date: 12/12/1999
Subject: Re: AF Question...
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6237	From: ROGER HINDS	Date: 12/12/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Re: AF Question...]
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6238	From: Marty Cook	Date: 12/12/1999
Subject: Reference Books
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6239	From: Marty Cook	Date: 12/12/1999
Subject: Reference Books
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6240	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Re: Reference Books
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6241	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Smoke Unit resistance.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6242	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: American Models Sale
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6243	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: replacement speaker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6244	From: Bristol, Kirk	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Re: replacement speaker
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6245	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: replacement speakers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6246	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Re: 785 loader
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6247	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: American Flyer Rules
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6248	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 464
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6249	From: Yost, Roy	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: No cow catcher
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6250	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Gargraves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6251	From: The Reis's	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Re: Gargraves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6252	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: O'Brien's Toy Trains
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6253	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Researching for a friend
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6254	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: speaker for 325
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6255	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Bachmann On30 passenger car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6256	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] SHS SW-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6257	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: American Flyer & Dept 56 Christmas layout
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6258	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: GARGRAVES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6259	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: coincidence
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6260	From: Nerker, Robert	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: help on Alco engine
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6261	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Talking Station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6262	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Yablonski's friend
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6263	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Whistle speakers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6264	From: Neil Becker	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Electromagnetic Crane/Coal Loader Questions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6265	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Re: Whistle speakers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6266	From: Kelvin White	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] SHS SW-1
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6267	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Re: Speakers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6268	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Holiday Brain Teasers - X-posted 2 lists
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6269	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Re: Holiday Brain Teasers --YAK
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6270	From: Alan Bataille	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Vermont Trip
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6271	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: display/storage unit
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6272	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/15/1999
Subject: coincidence
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6273	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/15/1999
Subject: Talking Station / PA
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6274	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/15/1999
Subject: Re: Talking Station
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6275	From: John Simkovich	Date: 12/15/1999
Subject: Fw: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6276	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/15/1999
Subject: PA diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6277	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/16/1999
Subject: AF diesels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6278	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/16/1999
Subject: Brainless Teaser Answers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6279	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/16/1999
Subject: OTT sound system
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6280	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/16/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 466
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6281	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/16/1999
Subject: Re: OTT sound system
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6282	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/16/1999
Subject: Virus Hoax
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6283	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Your Choice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6284	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: C&NW flat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6285	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Fred's Train Parts
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6286	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Re: Your Choice
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6287	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Re: C&NW flat
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6288	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6289	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Re: amer flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6290	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Re: amer flyer
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6291	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: catalogs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6292	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 12/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 469
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6293	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/18/1999
Subject: Re: diesel chassis
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6294	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/18/1999
Subject: A Hallmark Moment
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6295	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/18/1999
Subject: Thanks
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6296	From: The Reis's	Date: 12/18/1999
Subject: Re: catalogs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6297	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/19/1999
Subject: Season Greetings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6298	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 470
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6299	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/19/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6300	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/19/1999
Subject: GM GP-7 diesel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6301	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: catalogs
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6302	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: Geep Demonstrator
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6303	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: links
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6304	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 470
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6305	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Cattle car conductivity
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6306	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Got the cattle working
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6307	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: Cattle car conductivity
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6308	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: Cattle car conductivity
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6309	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: pulmor in a non-pulmor?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6310	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: TCA car, SHS vs. Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6311	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: TCA car, SHS vs. Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6312	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: TCA car, SHS vs. Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6313	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: TCA car, SHS vs. Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6314	From: Michael A. Scivoletti	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: The True Flyer@ Spirit is alive!!!!!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6315	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: fussy cattle car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6316	From: Joseph F. Haughney	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: Market Penetration Thoughts et al
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6317	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: The Convention Car Thread
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6318	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: pulmor in non-pulmor, not.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6319	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: Industrial Rail 027 Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6320	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: USGS display- day II
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6321	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: Re: Industrial Rail 027 Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6322	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: Re: Industrial Rail 027 Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6323	From: John Denholm	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 473
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6324	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 473: UMD Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6325	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: A NPSG HOLIDAY GREETING
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6326	From: Roger Petrella	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: AF locomotive features
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6327	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: Action accessories on DC?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6328	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: S Gauge TCA 2000 convention car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6329	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: Re: Industrial Rail 027 Caboose
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6330	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: WP B-unit and diner
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6331	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: Re: Action accessories on DC?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6332	From: jde@connect.ab.ca	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Track Conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6333	From: JSBMLB@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: More on the convention car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6334	From: Bill Porter	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Roger Petrella's List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6335	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Re: Roger Petrella's List
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6336	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Industrial Rail Cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6337	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Re: Track Conversion
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6338	From: Marty Cook	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail Proposed S-gauge Projects
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6339	From: john foley	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6340	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: S-Trains Additions
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6341	From: Jarcho	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Accessories on DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6342	From: Neil Trump	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Re: Accessories on DC
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6343	From: Neil Trump	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: An odd ball 326?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6344	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 474
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6345	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Re: An odd ball 326?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6346	From: Neil Trump	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: An odd ball 326?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6347	From: john foley	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Fw: MERRY CHRISTMAS
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6348	From: NYC17819@aol.com	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Christmas Poem
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6349	From: NYC17819@aol.com	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Lyin'l announcement!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6350	From: James Wysopal	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Roger's engine list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6351	From: Don652@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Storage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6352	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Re: Storage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6353	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Gargraves
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6354	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Christmas and a question
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6355	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 475
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6356	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Re: Storage
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6357	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Season's greetings
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6358	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Re: shutdown
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6359	From: mary jo shutt	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: American Flyer O
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6360	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6361	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/25/1999
Subject: Merry Christmas!!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6362	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 12/25/1999
Subject: 21925-1 U.P.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6363	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/25/1999
Subject: More new Lionel
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6364	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: lionel Christmas car 1999( S-Gauge version)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6365	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Re: lionel Christmas car 1999( S-Gauge version)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6366	From: jde@xxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: PikeMaster Curved Track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6367	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/25/1999
Subject: Locomotive shells
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6368	From: Bill Porter	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Bid Snipers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6369	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: loose steam loco drivers
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6370	From: Dave Ewing	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Showcase Lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6371	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6372	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: From Ted Larson
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6373	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Power Connections Between Diesels?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6374	From: Cheri221@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Re: lionel Christmas car 1999( S-Gauge version)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6375	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Re: Showcase Lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6376	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: NPSG GREENBERG SHOW PICTURES
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6377	From: Cheri221@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: Re: Showcase Lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6378	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: Re: lionel Christmas car 1999( S-Gauge version)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6379	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: SHS cars and 19" radius track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6380	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: Re: SHS cars and 19" radius track
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6381	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: 3-in-one oil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6382	From: michael prell	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: "The Board Break & Elbow Smash" lives!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6383	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: Re: 3-in-one oil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6384	From: William H Trefts	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: Lionel/Flyer 1999 Christmas Car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6385	From: jde@xxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: PikeMaster Tack
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6386	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: Pikemaster Tack switches
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6387	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: Lionel 1999 Cristmas car
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6388	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: looking for tender
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6389	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: SHS on 19" radius
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6390	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: 3 in 1 oil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6391	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: 3 in 1 oil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6392	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: Re: SHS on 19" radius
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6393	From: Neil Trump	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: Truck rivet query
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6394	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: 1957 Flyer Catalog
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6395	From: WNHOLCOMB@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: STrain/Flyer Shops in Florida
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6396	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: Re: 3 in 1 oil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6397	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: Train Shops in St Pete area
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6398	From: esquivel	Date: 12/29/1999
Subject: Re: Train Shops in St Pete area
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6399	From: Mark Preman	Date: 12/29/1999
Subject: Train Shops in Florida
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6400	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/29/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 480
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6401	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/29/1999
Subject: Hallmark
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6402	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 12/29/1999
Subject: B.T.S. Project Status
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6403	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/29/1999
Subject: Re: 3 in 1 oil
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6404	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: Roger's list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6405	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: magnetic couplers and metal wheels
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6406	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: Rogers list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6407	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: Southern Crescent Locomotive Telephone
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6408	From: J. Row	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: Re: Rogers list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6409	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: Re: Rogers list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6410	From: yorke@xxxx.xxx	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: (no subject)
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6411	From: Fred Alles	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: American Flyer in Raleigh, N.C.?
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6412	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: Flyer steam locos
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6413	From: Richard	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Happy New Year !!
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6414	From: Don Abrams	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: flanges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6415	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Flanges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6416	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: flanges
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6417	From: Neil Becker	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Port Lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6418	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Hallmark N&W Coal Tender
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6419	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Port Lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6420	From: Ted Walton	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Roger's list.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6421	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Roger's list.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6422	From: Jarcho	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: decoding Roger's list
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6423	From: S-Trains-owner@onelist.com	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6424	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Port Lines
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6425	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: TCA cars
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6426	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Roger's list.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6427	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: rivets
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6428	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Books
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6429	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Roger's list.
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6430	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Port Lines - missing Doug Peck
Group: S-Trains	Message: 6431	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Roger's list.

---

Group: S-Trains	Message: 898	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Arghhhh - I'm ready to strangle the thing!!!! I have a Franklin that appears to be shorting across the draw bar at two points, the center, where the truck bar connects to the loco bar and at the loco mount itself. I've tried insulating washers at the loco end to no avail. What am I missing here? Second help question - This problem is random and on at least two different engines. Train will run fine for hours, or minutes, then suddenly begin to slow way down, almost as if it cannot get or make any power? If I change to different engine, it runs fine so apparently not a power supply issue. Suggestions? As always, thanks for you help Happy New Year! Mac Forty is the old age of youth, fifty the youth of old age.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 899	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: Re: Franklin shorting

Dear S. Fuse,<G> A common problem with the late locos, the loco frame is "hot" in these engines, that is the frame is connected to one rail thru the tender. If the reverse unit is miswired (by the factory sometimes!) or a driver tire has shifted to where it can touch the frame (going around curves, for instance) you will get a short. The 21085 will short when the trailing truck wears and touches the rail top too, especially at switches. Check to make sure the front truck is wired to the connection to the frame, and then look for loosened tires, or worn centers (they have a raised inner surface to keep the tires away from the chassis). I don't have the wiring diagram handy right now, but I'm sure someone can post and give it to you. I'd have time this evening to look it up if they don't! Let us know what you find. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 900	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: AC vs DC

AH so! EZ to convert to DC control. But Pauls fine site had no FAQ or info on advantages (reverse is one?) and tho wiring diagram of tender conversion no source or specs on the rectifier . How many hi-rail folks have converted???? And power pac home built or commercial, i.e., are large HO units used? any input (pun?) useful.... L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 901	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: Re: S Mod

HI JOE, The last thing anybody wants is to see anybody intimidated. The reason for showing nice layouts is to inspire. That is also why I want to show some simple modules in the NASG Dispatch. Give people some pictures of something that looks within their capabilities; inspire them to start! I personally have done nothing but simple modules. I put mine together with modules from other guys in the local club, and we have a nice layout for train shows. I strongly advise starting very simple. You can always get more complicated. If you have a club to operate with, your module can be nothing more than two parallel tracks. If you do not have a club, start with a switching layout, or a simple oval. There are examples of simple ovals in the following issues of the Dispatch; June '94, April '95, and June '96. Ted Larson > >Great idea Paul and thanx for thinking of it. As "King of the Newbiees", >quite frankly I am intimidated by the thought of beginning the construction >of an S Gauge layout. This fear is made even greater when I see such >magnificent layouts in all the model and train magazines that I read >in my enthusiasm for the hobby. Look forward to all info that anybody can >provide. Please keep up the good work. > >Joe Langellotti > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 902	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs DC

Hi Lars, I have used the Full Bridge Rectifier Radio Shack part 276-1146 and it worked fine. I also use a MRC model 2400 power pack and everything seems fine. My intent is not to just switch to DC for control that I like better, but, to later on switch to DCC and this is just the first step. Good Luck, Bill Porter LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > AH so! > EZ to convert to DC control. > But Pauls fine site had no FAQ or info on advantages (reverse is one?) and > tho wiring diagram of tender conversion no source or specs on the rectifier . > How many hi-rail folks have converted???? > And power pac home built or commercial, i.e., are large HO units used? > any input (pun?) useful.... > L. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 903	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs DC

LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > AH so! > EZ to convert to DC control. > But Pauls fine site had no FAQ or info on advantages (reverse is one?) and > tho wiring diagram of tender conversion no source or specs on the rectifier . > How many hi-rail folks have converted???? > And power pac home built or commercial, i.e., are large HO units used? > any input (pun?) useful.... For the rectifier in the motor I use one from Radio Shack that's rated at 50PIV. Do not use a larger one that is rated at 100PIV or you may encounter voltage drops to the engine. We rewired a friend's diesel recem=ntly and it ran like a dog woth the 100OIV rectifier in it. Switched to a 50 and it ran nimbly. For the power supply hang a rectifier on the output of a Flyer transformer. Add a DPDT switch for reberding DC output polarity. For neatness mount both of these in a Radio Shack small plastic project box which only costs a dollar or 2. The HO power packs are probably OK for DC can motors but definitely anemic in wattage for a flyer engine. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 904	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge

S Friends --- It has taken longer than I hoped, but the document is finally available on the Web. "Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge" was developed as a handout for two NMRA DCC clinics held at the 1998 National S Gauge (NASG) Association's national convention in Worcester, MA in July 1998. It was revised further in October 1998 for a clinic given at the Central Jersey S-Fest. Additional information is awaiting incorporation and a Second Edition will likely be released by the end of March 1999. On behalf of all of the clinicians & authors (Bill Clark, Helen Lenart, Tom Robichaud, and myself) we'd like to say thanks for the various suggestions and comments regarding this document's content that were offered by many of you. As always we have done our best to edit out errors, etc. But invariably some will slide through, so if you find one, please send me an e'mail and we'll address it in the next edition. The document is located at: http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cedarlane/nmradcc-info.html Regards Michael Greene ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Greene 16 Falmouth Dr. NMRA Life Member #5433 North Grafton, MA 01536 Past Chair, NMRA DCC Working Group Home Phone: +1 508.839.9551 Member, NTRAK, NASG, Home Fax: +1 508.839.1510 Bristol S-Gaugers, Home e'mail: mgreene@... The 470 Railroad Club ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 905	From: ClaimsBoss@aol.com	Date: 1/1/1999
Subject: AC vs DC

You may find the MRC 2400 somewhat low on power. I have been DC going back to early post war AF. I have found the best power today is the MRC Control Master 20. Has a lot more power that is especially needed for the older AF. Its also recommended for heavy G-Guage. Hope this helps.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 906	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: DC Conversion

>>For the rectifier in the motor I use one from Radio Shack that's rated at 50PIV. Do not use a larger one that is rated at 100PIV or you may encounter voltage drops to the engine. We rewired a friend's diesel recem=ntly and it ran like a dog woth the 100OIV rectifier in it. Switched to a 50 and it ran nimbly.<< What is this "PIV" stuff about? I always just look at the amp rating of the diode. At least 4 on the engine, and 6 on the power supply. Ted ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 907	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs DC

A good power supply is the Chicago Model International, model #156. It has a walk around system, 100 VA power, fan cooled, memory...train runs unplugged, variable momentum, spring 'Air' braking system and the best of all is there 'Dial-A-Gauge System' which allows you to adjust the power output from 'N' to 'G' gauge. This past November I had my model in operation on the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers modular layout and it ran AF steam locos just fine. "S", Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 908	From: Skip Mersereau	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: Re: DC Conversion

Just a suggestion that I know doesn't answer all your interests, but Dallee makes a wonderful DC conversion for American Flyer engines. This replaces the existing motor with a Pittman DC motor. The conversion is really quite simple and uses simple tools. Not sure about the cost, but I remember at least $35. Possibly double that, as its been so long I can't really recall. But if you want real smooth operation, slow speed starts, this is one route that will really deliver. The Flyer mechanism is fine, the motor is just a little out of date by modern standards, and for those of us used to DC smooth operation, the rectifier conversion doesn't really do it. Stereotype Flyer operation is high speed, but if you use conversion through Dallee's Pittman, you can get all the wonders of slow scale operations with your favorite engines. As I recall, the fellow at Dallee is a Flyer operator himself. If you haven't checked it out, give it a try. I can understand collectors not wanting to go this route, but if the joy of operation is more important, if you are buying American Models engines as well, then the conversion makes a lot of sense as you will save money on new engines using DC and may want to consider hooking up DCC, sound chips and all the other wonders. Don't want to upset the apple cart, but thought you might want to know. Apologize if this option has already been rejected. Best for the New Year. Skip mhrreast@... wrote: > From: mhrreast@... > > >>For the rectifier in the motor I use one from Radio Shack that's rated > at 50PIV. Do not use a larger one that is rated at 100PIV or you may > encounter voltage drops to the engine. We rewired a friend's diesel > recem=ntly and it ran like a dog woth the 100OIV rectifier in it. > Switched to a 50 and it ran nimbly.<< > > What is this "PIV" stuff about? > > I always just look at the amp rating of the diode. > At least 4 on the engine, and 6 on the power supply. > > Ted > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 909	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: DC Conversion

I have used a DC conversion from American Hi-rail that works as you describe the Dallee. But I have not gotten any response from this source lately. Can you tell me how to contact Dallee? Thanks. Here is the info on my sourse: Tom Hodgson American Hi-Rail 37695 Jeanette Court Springrove, IL 60081 Wk: (847) 587-1116 Thanks, -Daniel >From: Skip Mersereau <jwmersereau@...> > >Just a suggestion that I know doesn't answer all your interests, but >Dallee makes a wonderful DC >conversion for American Flyer engines. This replaces the existing motor >with a Pittman DC motor. The >conversion is really quite simple and uses simple tools. >Not sure about the cost, but I remember at least $35. Possibly double >that, as its been so long I can't >really recall. But if you want real smooth operation, slow speed starts, >this is one route that will >really deliver. The Flyer mechanism is fine, the motor is just a little >out of date by modern standards, >and for those of us used to DC smooth operation, the rectifier conversion >doesn't really do it. Stereotype >Flyer operation is high speed, but if you use conversion through Dallee's >Pittman, you can get all the >wonders of slow scale operations with your favorite engines. As I recall, >the fellow at Dallee is a Flyer >operator himself. If you haven't checked it out, give it a try. I can >understand collectors not wanting to >go this route, but if the joy of operation is more important, if you are >buying American Models engines as >well, then the conversion makes a lot of sense as you will save money on >new engines using DC and may want >to consider hooking up DCC, sound chips and all the other wonders. > >Don't want to upset the apple cart, but thought you might want to know. >Apologize if this option has >already been rejected. Best for the New Year. > > Skip

Group: S-Trains	Message: 910	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: DC Conversion--stubborn AC Operator!

I have had some DC converted engines (bought a lot of 5 of them a year ago) and I'll admit, they ran fine, and didn't stop when going over a dirty switch. I'll begrudginly admit that, from an operator's point, they would make switching operations much easier. Only down side I could figure, is that my passenger engine, with SIT couldn't sit at the station, smoking in neutral (which also keeps the cars illuminated--but then I know you can do that with consant lighting stuff--wonder if that could also keep the smoke unit running?). BUT, I'm stubborn, I'm still running AC and reverse units. Maybe when I get to build my dream layout I'll change my tune? BTW, I've used the rectifier's nature of voltage drop to improve the Baldwin's running characaristics, it allows the reverse unit to cycle before the motor takes off! And it's only a one-wire unsolder trick, easy to remove if you can't stand *any* modifications to your AF stuff. Meantime, I'll read these interesting posts and ponder my stubborness! Happy New Year! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 911	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge

I have been working with S-guage DCC for about a year and it has added greatly to my enjoyment of the hobby. My source is Tried and True Trains. The people there are amazingly helpful and knowledgeable. I high reccomend them. Debbie Ames Tried And True Trains P. O. Box 578 Chelmlsford, MA 01824 Wk: (978) 256-3062 http://www.tttrains.com/ Hope this helps: - Daniel

Group: S-Trains	Message: 912	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: DC Conversion

mhrreast@... wrote: > > What is this "PIV" stuff about? > > I always just look at the amp rating of the diode. > At least 4 on the engine, and 6 on the power supply. > > Ted > > __________________________________________________________________ When you buy a full wave bridge rectifier (not simply a diode) it comes with both an amperage and voltage rating on the package. I think PIV stands for Peak Inverse Voltage but don't hold my feet to the fire. Anyway, when I checked a couple of rectifier packages just now they no longer rate PIV but now say rated for x amps and y volts. Too high a voltage rating causes the problem I described. Mike Holland's AF GP7 ran very slowly with a 4 amp 100 volt rectifier installed. Changing to a 4 amp 50 volt made a dramatic improvement. Before this I was using rectifiers without regard fr voltage rating. Maybe someone in the group who's better at electronics than me would like to explain this? -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 913	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Vehicles

Keith from the West Coast said stores farther east might be a better place to get mini-Tonkas! I went to TARGET, but no mini-Tonkas in sight! (BTW, did you know that the original Tonka Toy factory was in Mound Minn., on the shores of Lake Minnetonka? Where did Tonka get its name!!) However, there are some new Mint Editions! '57 Buick hardtop (with RED "white" walls - strange!) '66 Goat (Pontiac GTO) Does anybody know if this is similar to a '65 Pontiac? (my layout is '65) '65 Ford PU in yellow-orange. It is July that I last saw this pickup available. This is a strange color, but a good color for a MOW, utility, or highway dept truck. Also, Target has Nascar cars on sale for $.99 Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division 2001 - First year of the next millenium ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 914	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Vehicles

Hi Ted, I went back to Target too and I think I'm talking about the wrong thing. On closer inspection, these Tonkas are key rings! But I did find something worth mentioning. Johnny Lightning has just released it's "Hollywood On Wheels" series and there are some really good four-door sedans in the line. I picked up Andy Griffith's '63 Ford Fairlane cruiser and the '65 gold unmarked Ford Fairlane used by Joe Friday on Dragnet. Both cars are dead-on 1/64th . Target also had the Blues Brothers' late '70s Dodge Monaco and Starsky & Hutch's '74(?) Ford Torino. Other shows listed on the back of the blister card, but not in stock at my Target, include "Back to the Future," "The Monkees," "The Partridge Family," and "Blues Brothers 2000." The package advertising doesn't say which cars JL is going to make from the shows but if it offers the PF bus in real 1/64th I'll have to buy at least a dozen and repaint them yellow. It might also be fun to park a BTTF Delorean on a period layout. For some reason Paul Scoles layout seems a likely candidate. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle mhrreast@... wrote: > > From: mhrreast@... > > Keith from the West Coast said stores > farther east might be a better place to get > mini-Tonkas! > I went to TARGET, but no mini-Tonkas in sight! > (BTW, did you know that the original Tonka Toy > factory was in Mound Minn., on the shores of > Lake Minnetonka? Where did Tonka get its name!!) > > However, there are some new Mint Editions! > '57 Buick hardtop (with RED "white" walls - strange!) > '66 Goat (Pontiac GTO) Does anybody know if this > is similar to a '65 Pontiac? (my layout is '65) > '65 Ford PU in yellow-orange. It is July that > I last saw this pickup available. This is a strange > color, but a good color for a MOW, utility, or > highway dept truck. > > Also, Target has Nascar cars on sale for $.99 > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > 2001 - First year of the next millenium > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 915	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: MPSM - Des Plaines Hobbies FMC Boxcar

Hi all Does anybody know when the Des Plaines Hobbies 50ft FMC double door boxcar will be available ? It is eagerly awaited on this side of the pond - I've collected a order for 12 already, without knowing the roadnames! -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 916	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: MPSM - Alcos in 1999.

Hi all. Modern Prototype Scale Modellers. Alcos in 1999 Just a quick note - I've just received the December 98 issue of Railpace - a good magazine with any issue, but this month is extra special. A lot of coverage about Alcos still in active use. There is a superb list of no less than 62 Alcos in NY state. If you ever doubted that Alcos were a better product than GE this magazine will put you right! -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 917	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: 751 Parts Needed

I am in need of a set of the simulated girder uprights that holds the superstructure up from the base on the 751 log loader. I can also use a base as well. Reproductions are great, as well as items in need of paint. I would take a junker with a rotted or destroyed top as long as the uprights were undamaged, and the price was reasonable. Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 918	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Flyer 302 Steam Engine

I have a couple of Flyer 302, 4-4-2 Atlantic Steam Engines and the front wheels keep jumping the track on the curves. I have tried several other engines and do not have this problem. Does anyone have a simple solution to remedy this? The engines are great runners except for the front wheels under the cowcatcher.. Thanks, Ben

Group: S-Trains	Message: 919	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer 302 Steam Engine

Ben, inspect your front trucks for the following. Make sure they float freely, and are not hitting something like a wire hanging down close to the upper side of the bracket with the rivet. Make sure the wheels float freely on the axels, if not, squirt some WD-40 in there, and get them loose. Lastly, look closely for imperfections on the wheel flanges. Distorted wheels should be replaced, ones you find with dings or imperfections on, you can use a small file to file the area flat again. Good luck, let us know if you find the problem and what it was.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 920	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Auto unloading car

I have an American Flyer car that unloads an auto or a truck, but I have no car or truck. Can anyone suggest what I can use as a replacement or how I can get a replacement?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 921	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Auto unloading car

Best way to find loads is to hunt at flea markets, antique sales, and train shows. The earlier 715 car had a variety of loads and some are a little pricey today. You can use any open axle car of the same size as the original loads in lieu.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 922	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Decals for circus car

Where can I find decals for the circus coach? Also would like to find empty boxes I can use for my cars..don't have to be flyer boxes, they can just be generic ones..Thanks, Ben

Group: S-Trains	Message: 923	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Auto unloading car

> Scott: > Over the years Gilbert provided four vehicles with the 715 and 915 > unloading cars: a diecast Tootsietoy armored car; a die cast Manoil > coupe; a (diecast?) Tootsietoy midget race car; and a plastic Renwal > gasoline tank truck. The Greenberg guides tell which vehicle was > offered in what years with which car. These vehicles can be found at > toy and train shows, with the Manoil, Renwal tanker, and probably > Tootsietoy racer more common, and the Tootsietoy armored car least > common. Prices can range from $5 up to $30 - $40 depending on > condition. > Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 924	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Vehicles

I was by Caldor (a Northeastern chain similar to Target) and found the Racing Champions Police USA series. Three nice cars in that series: 1960 Plymouth (Suffolk, NY - 1:64), 1958 Chevy Impala (Grinnell, IA - 1:64), and 1964 Chevy Impala (Vermilion County, IL - 1:63). Had not seen this series before - has this series been around long? Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 925	From: Raymond Abbott	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Pulse Width Modulation DC Motor Control

http://www.aaroncake.net/circuits/motorcon.htm Reply to ac vs dc The best way to control those heat generating open frame motors is with pwm. This is not the case with can motors as they do not produce the kind of heat that would cause resistance and motor slowdown after a long run! someone may want to try this curcuit Ray Abbott RASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 926	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Walther's Sale

I just received a sale catalog from the "Terminal Hobby Shop - Division of Walther". Some of the large HO items in here look like they might be usable in S. Does anybody have experience with any of them? (BTW, the catalog says to order direct from your local hobby shop.) 433-1209 Spotlight 755-64 Utah Pacific Marker light kit 189-6499 Busch Pine tree assortment - 60-110mm - 100 for $28 189-6489 Busch mixed forest - 24 for $21 338-304 Heki assorted trees - 3-5" 24 for $18 338-303 Heki assorted trees 2.5-4" 30 for $18 These are only a few of the tree assortments listed. The pine and fir tree sets are cheaper than the deciduous trees. 933-3039 Backshop - Brick and glass block industrial building has doors large enough for railcars. In S, these doors would be about right for a truck. 12"x9"x9" two story. Looks a lot like some small town power plants that I have seen. Also it looks a bit like the creamery in my home town. 541-15 Pikestuff modern steel building. Doors are large enough for HO boxcar, therefore about right for an S truck. 541-8 Pikestuff engine house, similar to but smaller than 541-15 933-3119 EMD prime mover. Large diesel engine. Maybe could look like a Caterpillar size diesel engine? Make a good flat car load, or small power generator? There are also other structures that may be usable in this catalog. Who can tell us first hand what structures are available for conversion to S? I will make a list of all that are reported, and compile it as an FAQ category for Paul's website. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division 2001 - First year of the next millenium There are many oil tanks that could be used by replacing the HO stairways with S stairways. ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 927	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/2/1999
Subject: Re: Vehicles

Hi Michael, THe Police USA series started about March of '98. To see the complete list of cars made so far, go to http://www.racingchamps.com/prod_lineup/archives/98/RCpreview/police/police-325.html. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Michael Greene wrote: > > From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> > > I was by Caldor (a Northeastern chain similar to Target) and found the > Racing Champions Police USA series. Three nice cars in that series: 1960 > Plymouth (Suffolk, NY - 1:64), 1958 Chevy Impala (Grinnell, IA - 1:64), and > 1964 Chevy Impala (Vermilion County, IL - 1:63). Had not seen this series > before - has this series been around long? > > Michael > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 928	From: Richard McClary	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: Vehicle loads

In response to the request for replacement vehicles for the AF auto unloading car, I found that the Hartoy trucks work nicely. (They are a bit heavy, though.)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 929	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: pass car lighting

Posts a week or so ago wondered about flickering of lights in AF pass cars. Just back from a train show (Yoost before the storm) and there were some kits for lighting... Seems like there are lighting kits that limit voltage, i.e. when track voltage hits say 6v thats max. and it wont go any higher in the wire feed to the bulbs which are also now 6v not 12v. Meaning relatively steady illumination. COurse it does not solve the flickering but also seems like it wouldnt take much to add pickup from the other truck???? FYI I converted my HO Roundhouse atlantic to pickup on all tender wheels and return thru loco only. Yaz this is from the guy that really dont want to do a lotta work just enjoy the trains! L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 930	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: Re: pass car lighting

With respect to constant-voltage lighting, if you run your system from DC, you can easily add three-terminal voltage regulator chips to your car's lighting system. Also, reasonably large electrolytic filter capacitors can be added both ahead of and after the regulator chips. These caps will hold a charge during the time the voltage from the tracks is interrupted, and that will minimize or stop the flickering. If you want to run your Flyer trains from the original AC source (I use both AC and DC, depending on which tracks are used in my system), you can add a bridge rectifier ahead of the voltage regulator to convert the AC to DC before filtering and regulating the voltage. BTW: On my DC system, I use a DPDT switch to reverse the polarity of the DC supply to the tracks. In my American Flyer handcar, I've mounted a bridge rectifier to "steer" the field current. Now I can reverse my handcar! Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-. -----Original Message----- From: LARSPAINTR@... [mailto:LARSPAINTR@...] Sent: Sunday, January 03, 1999 9:56 AM To: S-Trains@onelist.com Subject: [S-Trains] pass car lighting From: LARSPAINTR@... Posts a week or so ago wondered about flickering of lights in AF pass cars. Just back from a train show (Yoost before the storm) and there were some kits for lighting... Seems like there are lighting kits that limit voltage, i.e. when track voltage hits say 6v thats max. and it wont go any higher in the wire feed to the bulbs which are also now 6v not 12v. Meaning relatively steady illumination. COurse it does not solve the flickering but also seems like it wouldnt take much to add pickup from the other truck???? FYI I converted my HO Roundhouse atlantic to pickup on all tender wheels and return thru loco only. Yaz this is from the guy that really dont want to do a lotta work just enjoy the trains! L. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 931	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: Pikestuff buildings

Ted Larson was inquiring about the Pikestuff buildings. I have built several of them and the HO freight car door does accomodate S trucks. However the Pikestuff products can be easily kitbashed, S doors and windows added and new doors added. I did one to permit direct loading to a boxcar. So far I have redone the modern 2-story office building with a new S scale door, left original windows,and the modern steel-sided storage building (can't find correct name). I have a couple others to build as well. One could always add a foundation to give the buildings more hight. There's also a company called Great Western Models that makes some interesting modern style concrete buildings that can also be adapted. cheers Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 932	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 91

Like Jacques, I also wonder why my survey didn't show up. I filled it out and clicked the send button over a month ago. Steve Blackburn Boise, Idaho ...RMHR

Group: S-Trains	Message: 933	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: car transporter

Happy New Year all, I restored a Champion set that included the NCC flat, but there is no truck, trailer, or new car load. Does anyone know where to find a reproduction? Also since I'm at it. Anyone have a junk building for the 751 log loader? I saw a L starter set at the hooby shop for half price ($50) today. Also there were 2 American Models Amtrack Superliner Sets at half price (about $175). Too modern for me. P.S. Thanks for putting my info on the survey, Paul. :)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 934	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: Weekend report

Well, I thought that I would have the railroad running by the end of this weekend but the truth is, I took out the lower mainline again. I just didn't like the way the alignment made the Minnesota Heartland run and I knew there had to be a better way. The survey crew made the new alignment and the Management asked Sylas Kayle to stop over and provide his insights into the change. After a careful explaination of the plan, Sylas took out his trusty drawing pencil and added the finishing touches that have me excited to get to work. I believe that the final result shows that while you cannot design by committee, the input of trusted club members makes for a terriffic railroad. Ben, Walt, Tom, Bob and Dave have all made suggestions that have created a synergy that really works. We are settling into the winter doldrums, long nights, perfect for working in a warm basement. First I guess there is a paper to finish then it is back to the trains.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 935	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/3/1999
Subject: SW1 in the Dispatch

Okay, I guess I'm a little slow on the uptake but what's with Jeff's "No, not an SW9 from S-Helper, an SW1" caption under the picture of the Milwaukee Road SW1 and wide-cupola caboose on page 8 of the December Dispatch? Was an SW1 announced by Don and I missed it? Recovering minds want to know! -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 936	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: 302 problematic pilots, Franklin follies

I recently bought two 302AC's, one each for my son and daughter for Christmas. They too turned out to be great runners after the usual disassembly, cleaning, lube, tuning (and one rebuilt smoke unit), except their pilots hopped off the track particularly around turns that included a switch. What I found works best is to replace the short unsprung pilot rivet with the longer one used on later model Atlantics and install it with a conical pilot spring - - presto, highly reliable operation all the way around. That may take away from the engine's authenticity, but they run much better. Might be the reason AF went this route in their latter engines. The "hot" tow bar made sparks and generated less consistent smoke from my 21088 than I wanted, so I ran a wire back from the point of attachment (front of smoke unit) to the chassis back to the proper (I think it was the front) tender contact. I like the supple, small gauge, black single strand wire you can get from AF parts dealers.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 937	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: A 1:64 Market Waiting to Be Exploited?

Chris Zizzo's (excellent IMHO) analysis of the 1:64 marketplace included: <snip> "You want to make American Flyer work? Don't take a license deal, only a straight buy-out. Buy all the tooling and all the rights to the name. Get all the machines that go with the tooling. You build starter sets. Next Christmas, you bring back the American 4-4-0 steamer as a Santa Claus train and go after the niche that New Bright is carving for itself in "G" gauge. Then put out a variety of starter sets with the same engine. Put them into Toys-R-Us and into the Christmas tree seasonal stores like Harrow's and Fortunoff's. Make special sets with those store's names on them to take advantage of cooperative advertising. Reach into your pocket and advertise strongly. Make a set for Sears. Make a Dept. 56 set intended to work with the ceramic villages. Secure a Thomas the Tank licensing deal to bankroll tooling new trains and offer a play table with the whole damn Isle of Sodor. Make the tools convertible to work for a new line of non-Thomas steam engines. Don't even bother going after the 3-rail market. Instead,compete directly with the budget "G" gaugers (Bachman, New Bright, Toy State)and the ready-to-run HO toy store sets. Make complete sets, with track, transformers and accessories. At the same time, support the hi-rail hobbyist with a product that competes directly in the semi-scale marketplace. That means, when you build an engine, it has to have several roadnames available at once. Those new Odyssey motors should be available for wholesale soon. Don't burn your bridges with Lionel, do business with them. Get TMCC to work in 2 rail. Print a full color, multi-page CATALOG. Innovate a smoke system that is copious but dissipates quickly. Make the name "American Flyer" a player in the toy train field again, instead of an overly exploited memory and a fallen flag itself. Now, anybody got any capital out there? Enjoy, Chris Zizzo" :::::::::::::::: I would add the following: Ceramic villages are becoming increasingly popular Christmas items and AF scale trains are probably the perfect size to go with them. I think what would really help make a new S guage starter set sell in the ceramic village market would be a "partially snow covered" sectional track system (like the HO E-Z track aystem but with patches of snow cover on some of the ballast). Target could perhaps sell it in conjunction with their "It's a Wonderful Life" villages which appear to be the same scale as AF. Ideallly the track would be compatible with vintage AF equipment and the new starter set. For the extremely budget conscious, perhaps Ertl could produce another battery operated train set that would be compatible. Monty --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 938	From: RWJW3@aol.com	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Re: Hand Car Bridge

In a message dated 1/4/99 5:07:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, S- Trains@onelist.com writes: Alex Would you be so kind as to let us know the size or part number of the bridge and where you found the space to put it? Thanks Bob << BTW: On my DC system, I use a DPDT switch to reverse the polarity of the DC supply to the tracks. In my American Flyer handcar, I've mounted a bridge rectifier to "steer" the field current. Now I can reverse my handcar! >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 939	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Re: Hand Car Bridge

Hi Bob (and the S gauge group): Thank you for your query. I used very small silicon power rectifier diodes to construct the bridge, rather than use a fixed form-factor pre-wired bridge rectifier unit which would be much larger. The diodes are 600-V at 1-A garden variety silicon diodes available from Radio Snack and catalog sources such as Digi-Key or Mouser. I placed the diodes on the workbench and physically layed them out side by side with very short leads. Silicon diodes are VERY heat resistant, so there's no need to worry about destroying them during soldering, although it pays to work quickly in any case. Once the little "network" of diodes was soldered together, I could flex it a bit to make it fit above the motor assembly. I used folds of glass tape as insulation. In the original circuit, the armature and field are in series, so if you reverse the polarity of the DC to the rails, both the magnetic field in the armature and that of the field coil reverses---and the direction of travel stays the same! The motor doesn't reverse. Yuk. With the rectifer, the diodes steer the field current while the armature current direction stays the same---and---voila!-----you can reverse the direction. Hook up one car pickup to the field. The other rail pickup goes to the "AC" input to the bridge (one cathode and one anode). The other "AC" input of the bridge gets wired to the other side of the field coil. The "+" side of the bridge (two cathodes) goes to one side of the armature. The "-" side of the bridge (two anodes) goes to the other side of the armature. That's all there is to it. I was delighted and amazed to see my little handcar come alive and run in reverse or forward---after all these years---with modern solid-state electronics aboard! If you'd like me to fax you a schematic, say the word. or, i can send an OrCAD drawing if you have OrCAD. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 940	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] New products of interest that might work for S

Hi Chris, The printer is ALPS (http://www.alpsusa.com/main.htm). With it's newer firmware and higher resolution, I'd recommend the MD-5000. Part of my annual bonus is earmarked for one of those puppies. In case you're wondering, ALPS Electric is not a new kid on the block. ALPS is an old company in the electronics biz and one of the first manufacturer's of parts for the Apple II. ALPS developed the MD series of printers to solve an in-house printing problem and decided to recoup it's development cost by offering the printer to the public. I don't think they've regretted that move one bit. BTW, the cost for expendables (ink) on the ALPS printers are the lowest in the ink jet, wax, and dye sublimation printer field which makes them less painful to try new ideas on. The black cartridge for my HP is now up to $26 and I think I get less output from the newer ones. Talk about a conspiracy! The new printers are under $300 but you'll spend almost that much a year keeping them in ink! -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Chris Palomarez wrote: > > From: Chris Palomarez <ChrisPy_Joe@...> > <SNIP> > Something that will really benefit the custom painter is a decal printer > for PC's and MAC's now we can get those darn decals that are so > troublesom to find in our scale = ). From the white paper it said that > it prints white as well as metalics (i.e. gold, silver, etc.) Can't > recall the manufacturer off hand but it's listed in the 65th anniversary > issue of MR. > > Chris Palomarez > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Proto 64 web site is at: http://www.wolfenet.com/~kthompso/Proto64

Group: S-Trains	Message: 941	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: American Flyer Lines, a Fallen Flag???

There has been some discussion lately about the possibility of somehow bringing back American Flyer Lines to it's former glory. I am a hi-railer and with all of the products, with there attention to scale and detail, produced by AM, S-Helper,PRS,etc., I can not see paying the high price for Lionel Flyer and the original American Flyer. There are starter sets available from AM and I hope that S-Helper, with the introduction of there new track system and caboose will also introduce starter sets. I was, like many of us introduced to model railroading through American Flyer trains(1953) and believe that the AF line is superior to the Big L. The sight, sound and smell(that wonderful smoke) of a AF stem loco still brings a big smile to my face and the memory of the wonder and joy of my first AF set. But the future is now and we should support the new manufactures in there efforts to bring us product that I like to think would meet with the approvial of the man himself, AC Gilbert. Just a few thoughts, Tom Davis, Charlotte,N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 942	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Laona & Northern 2-6-2s

Greetings from across the pond. Can anybody assist with sources of information about the Laona & Northern locomotives. The L&N was a standard gauge Wisconsin Northwoods logging line. L&N '4 spot' an 2-6-2 Vulcan #2535 of 1916, and is still in use on the L&N - Camp 5 logging museum line. A photograph of L&N #3 appears on page 122, of Wisconsin Rails (Vol 1) by Bob Baker. #3 appears to have a larger diam boiler but otherwise is all but identical. These engines look to be ideal candidates for converting the Bachman On30 C&S 2-6-0 to S standard gauge. Can anybody give me wheel diam, Boiler diam and any other dimensional info about these engines or suggest other sources of info. I will be writing to Camp 5. -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 943	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Re: NCC repro load

In a message dated 1/4/99 5:07:27 AM, you wrote: <<I restored a Champion set that included the NCC flat, but there is no truck, trailer, or new car load. Does anyone know where to find a reproduction? >> There IS no reproduction of that load! We DO carry the individual autos....but NOT the auto carrier itself. Several years ago, HSS marketed a "repro load" for this flatcar, but it was a TERRIBLE reproduction. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 944	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: J-R Outlets, Statesville, NC

I called. They said they do not sell Lledo or the Vangaurd line by Lledo. They said they only sell Burago, Ertl, American Muscle, and one other line by HS (?). Their phone # is 704-872-5300, ask for the metal toy cars and trucks department.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 945	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: MODEL RAILROADER SURVEY

John Foley wrote: From: "JOHN EICHMANN" <JEICHMANN@...> Subject: MR Survey -Reply Fellow Rocky Mountain Hi-Railer Alan Udy sent this through last week, and it's worth repeating. Let's all respond. (BTW, Happy New S Year!) John Alan C Udy <nsupbnsf@...> 12/30/98 08:09am >>> I thought I'd pass this along. January's Model Railroader has a short piece asking those interested in answering a series of surveys by e-mail send their e-mail address and name in the body of an e-mail (no subject was requested) to survey@... I haven't heard anything back yet. Here's our chance to make our S-views known (and don't think other minority interests won't be stuffing the ballot box too).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 946	From: Gene and Mary Rutter	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: AF Santa Fe parts

>Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1999 23:56:39 -0500 >To: s-trains@onelist.com >From: Gene and Mary Rutter <rutter@...> >Subject: AF Santa Fe parts > >Hi I'm looking for a source for 1950's Santa Fe Diesel engine parts. > >Things for the motors, brushes, brush holders, fibers etc. > >Any help is appreciated. > >Gene <rutter@...>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 947	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Re: J-R Outlets, Statesville, NC

Hi David, I just called and spoke with someone in the toy department. They do still have some -- tho' I didn't ask whether 1:43 or 1:64 or both. But she said "those are the $3.50 items?" and they are -- so they do still seem to have some. (Being in Massachusetts, I can't go check easily :-) Perhaps the confusion is which dept they are in. The Vanguard items are in the toy dept. I think the area you mention below is another dept with more "upscale" collectible type (their definition) type cars. I seem to remember two areas. Anyway the real toy dept is in the back corner of the store, along what I'd guess is an 'outside' wall'. This area has all sorts of kids toys. The Vanguard cars are on the same wall as an employee exit/door which is at the end of the wall. The Vanguard cars are 10-15 feet back from that employee exit area. Hope this helps. Michael At 05:03 PM 1/4/99 -0500, David_Horn@... wrote: >From: David_Horn@... > >I called. They said they do not sell Lledo or the Vangaurd line by Lledo. >They said they only sell Burago, Ertl, American Muscle, and one other line >by HS (?). Their phone # is 704-872-5300, ask for the metal toy cars and >trucks department. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 948	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Re: SW1 in the Dispatch

Dear "S" Friends, Yes, we did display a SW-1 at the S Fest and it is pictured in the Dispatch. One of our friends, Jeff Freeman, modified one of our SW-9s (he even took off the lovers) and made a SW-1. We are looking at the possibility of producing this model in the future. Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 949	From: NYC17819@aol.com	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Lyin'L

Lyin'L Special Announcement The big news in railroading last year, this year, and probably next year is the breakup of Conrail. To Commemorate this event, Lyin'L presents the following additions to it's line of authentic model trains. As an added bonus, you get a free Lyin'L patch with every purchase of $50.00 or more. These collectible patches are the perfect way to cover up those embarrassing holes in your jackets. SOUTH KEARNY INTERMODAL SET $189.95 Our best seller from the River Line Collection is back, this time with even more trains! You'll tear your hair out in frustration. CLEVELAND JUNCTION SET-$199.99 Recreate the postmerger action at "ground zero"! Try to keep the CSX and NS trains moving around a figure eight track layout. Set includes crossing track with tower and two stop signals. CLEVELAND JUNCTION ADD-ON SET $79.95 Set features a by-pass track and two model houses. Run your trains over the bypass to avoid congestion, but do it too often and angry homeowners pop out of the houses. Set includes an assortment of local politicians. NS AND CSX COAL HOPPER SET $29.95 Let's face it, without the coal revenue, CSX and NS would be a pair of rinky-dink regionals. This limited boxed set of two hopper cars commemorates the secret of their success. Cars include genuine loads of "Chessie" brand kitty litter, and "Thorobred" brand horse manure. CONRAIL COMMEMORATIVE BOXCAR $19.95 An authentic replica of a Pennsylvania X-58 boxcar, painted Penn Central green with Conrail logo and "NYC" initials. CONRAIL STOCKHOLDER ACTION FIGURE $8.95 Wind it up and watch it laugh all the way to the bank. SURFACE TRANSPORTATION BOARD PLAYSET $19.95 Includes chairperson, vice-chairman, an empty chair, and an official S.T.B. rubber stamp. ACTION C.E.O. PLAYSET $39.95 Re-live the famous battle for control of Conrail. Set features three C.E.O. action figures, each authentic in every detail, right down to the stuffed shirt and big head. Also includes two dozen assorted vice-presidents, a big bag o' lawyers, twelve billion in play money, and a 17,000 page instruction manual. "SORRY" BOARD GAME $14.95 In this updated version of the classic board game, players move all over the country, bumping each other as they try to avoid landing on the dreaded "NS" square. The last player to still have a job in his home terminal wins. Lyin'L- Model trains that just sit there.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 950	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Pacific Rail Shops

Does Pacific Rail Shops have either an e'mail address or phone #? Can't seem to find one anywhere... Thanks in advance Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 951	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/4/1999
Subject: Alps Printer

We are going to invest in an Alps printer after our winter product show. We know it will be useful for producing color proof and catalog samples. The fact that it will also print decals was not a consideration for myself or our Art Department Manager (also a model railroader). Now if you believe that.... This unit has been all the rage on the Freight Car mail system and I know of several decal makers who now are using them. When we looked at the printers, we could not see any reason for getting the more expensive printers to accomplish the decals. I would be interested in another opinion. Here is an idea for a brass locomotive, how about making the superstructure and using an existing drive. The SHS drive is superior to any drive I have seen in a brass locomotive and the American Models isn't all that bad either. I understand that there is a "brass collector" group out there and that they make up some portion of the market. Is this why we get opening doors (who wants people sticking their fingers into your carefully painted models) and noisey drive trains? Also, how many people have tried to take a brass engine apart to paint it, there is an interesting challenge. Now try to put it together and not scratch the paint. OK, I hear you.... picky, picky, picky. I will go back a lay by my dish for now. 8-) Ken

Group: S-Trains	Message: 952	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: J-R Outlets, Statesville, NC

Thanks. The first person who answered the phone didn't even think they sold toy cars or trucks. Upon practically reading your previous note verbatim, she directed my call to the "metal cars and trucks department". That person was pleasant, but told me (even checked the shelves) they sell no Lledo. I'll have to try again, thanks for your follow up and clarification. While we're on the subject of small die cast vehicle, does anyone know of a 1:64 (or close) fire truck or dump truck from the '30's through early 60's? Target didn't have any of the Tonka '49 dump trucks. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 953	From: Allen Evans	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: Lyin'L

Ha HA !! A good one!! ====================================

Group: S-Trains	Message: 954	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: 302 and oil tender?

Possible to rebuild a 302's tender to an oil unit and actually use an oil feed line outside/under the cab to the loco's firebox? This would conceal the wire that replaced the hot tow bar link. Said line could be covered with a woven flex insulator or heat shrink tubing? This system worked fine on my ole Roundhouse HO atlantic. Dont know how non original or non proto folks are.... Some of you prototype fans could mebbee provide the info for the heater line on the loco... L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 955	From: Mark Preman	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale - January List

Wow! What a holiday season! Buying and selling. The new list is up. Anybody need a Northern? Mark B. Preman www.americanflyertrains.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 956	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: Hand Car Bridge

Alex, I'm interested in a copy of the schematic, too. I might also suggest sending a copy to Paul Yorke for inclusion in his s-trains web site. > Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:08:01 -0500 > From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alex.ai2q@...> > Subject: Re: Hand Car Bridge > > Hi Bob (and the S gauge group): > > Thank you for your query. I used very small silicon power rectifier diodes > to construct the bridge, rather than use a fixed form-factor pre-wired > bridge rectifier unit which would be much larger. The diodes are 600-V at > 1-A garden variety silicon diodes available from Radio Snack and catalog > sources such as Digi-Key or Mouser. > > I placed the diodes on the workbench and physically layed them out side by > side with very short leads. Silicon diodes are VERY heat resistant, so > there's no need to worry about destroying them during soldering, although it > pays to work quickly in any case. Once the little "network" of diodes was > soldered together, I could flex it a bit to make it fit above the motor > assembly. I used folds of glass tape as insulation. > > In the original circuit, the armature and field are in series, so if you > reverse the polarity of the DC to the rails, both the magnetic field in the > armature and that of the field coil reverses---and the direction of travel > stays the same! The motor doesn't reverse. Yuk. > > With the rectifer, the diodes steer the field current while the armature > current direction stays the same---and---voila!-----you can reverse the > direction. > > Hook up one car pickup to the field. The other rail pickup goes to the "AC" > input to the bridge (one cathode and one anode). The other "AC" input of the > bridge gets wired to the other side of the field coil. The "+" side of the > bridge (two cathodes) goes to one side of the armature. The "-" side of the > bridge (two anodes) goes to the other side of the armature. That's all there > is to it. > > I was delighted and amazed to see my little handcar come alive and run in > reverse or forward---after all these years---with modern solid-state > electronics aboard! > > If you'd like me to fax you a schematic, say the word. or, i can send an > OrCAD drawing if you have OrCAD. > > Regards, > > Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-. -- Jerry Riechert riecherg@... | AG Communication Systems, Inc. Phone: 602-582-7332 | A subsidiary of Lucent Technologies FAX: 602-581-4884 | PO Box 52179, Phoenix, AZ 85072-2179 Speaking only for myself | http://www.agcs.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 957	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Layout Pix

Hi Folks, I ran into our esteemed coordinator and brother Dennis Beck at a travelling train show this weekend. The show was good and it was good to see other members. Paul nudged me, again, to publish some pictures of my layout progress. He just can't stop facilitating. OK, here goes. Right now, the new S-Scale ZOT is just underway. The photos show the benchwork and the first set of tracks. For those interested in following a case study, check out the link at: http://home.att.net/~wpporter/ Great Zot itS, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 958	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: revive Flyer

I focus on and favor AC Gilbert Flyer products, but have also been reasonably satisfied with my recent purchases of an AM GG1 and S-Helper NYC cattle car. While the AM and SH products are much better in terms of scale detail/accuracy, slow speeds, smoothness, sound, and roll-resistance, they lack the raw speed, stability, and general play-qualities of the "good 'ol Flyer stuff". For example, my 470 SF-PA tops out at about 182 scale mph (4.75 seconds around a .24 mile oval) and stays on all fours in the process - - it's flying, but well beyond what real PA's pulled during their time. The SH box can't tolerate the ride, but its AF predecessors can. The GG1, on the other hand, tops out at about 100 scale mph (as did an actual GG1), crawls more smoothly, and with the SH box the pair just seem to glide over the rails. They're both fun, but they are different. I agree with supporting the new manufacturers and their products, but I'd be lying not to admit I also long for someone to "build 'em like they used to" again.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 959	From: Alex Randall	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: revive Flyer

I see an American Models SW-9 Switcher in my local train show, in scale. How will it fare on my AF track? I have images of it flying off the track. Does these scale engines operate well on old track? Alex

Group: S-Trains	Message: 960	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: PIV

- Greeting'S - Happy New Year. At the risk of having you ask the time and my telling you how to build a clock, here is what PIV is about. Correct, PIV stands for peak inverse voltage. The diode has about 0.7 V drop across it when it conducts current (from anode to cathode, in the direction of the arrow). In the reverse direction, it is supposed to not conduct current. Obviously there is some high voltage in the positive to the cathode, negative to the anode direction that will cause a spark to jump between the leads. In the microscopic guts of the diode, less voltage is required to make current go in the wrong direction. In the popular bridge rectifier found at Radio shack, that is about 50 V. In the numbers department, the semiconductor separation between the pos. and neg. sides at this voltage is on the order of 2 microns, this works out to an electric field across the semiconductor of 25 V/micron or 25 million volts/meter. If that last number got your attention, then hang on for a look at what happens with A F track voltages. Assume 15 V of AC on the track. That is the rms value just as 120 V is the rms value for the receptacle where the transformer is plugged in. [Sorry, Kelvin, I know I am dealing with what is found in the colonies.] A glimpse of this sinusoidally-varying (remember, it is alternating) voltage on maybe an oscilloscope shows the the positive peak of the 15 V goes up to about 21 V. Also, the negative peak goes down to -21 V. The voltage swing is 42 V peak-to- peak. Any rectifier used across the track, perhaps to provide DC power for operating trains should have the capability to withstand 42 V in the momentarily wrong direction. A half cycle later it will be doing its proper, current current thing. In normal operation, A F locomotives rarely have more than about 4 V across the field coil. Therefore the bridge rectifier used within the locomotive for obtaining polarity reversing enjoys an easy life as it will suffer inverse voltages on its diodes of only a few volts. Hope this helps. Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 961	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: revive Flyer

In a message dated 1/5/99 1:12:51 PM, David_Horn@... wrote: <<I focus on and favor AC Gilbert Flyer products, but have also been reasonably satisfied with my recent purchases of an AM GG1 and S-Helper NYC cattle car. While the AM and SH products are much better in terms of scale detail/accuracy, slow speeds, smoothness, sound, and roll-resistance, they lack the raw speed, stability, and general play-qualities of the "good 'ol Flyer stuff". >> My experience agrees with David's observations. The new stuff looks and operates very well, but you can't hand it to a seven year old (even a careful one) to play with (I received my first Gilbert AF set at the age of three and I still have it!). There is still a place for the traditional rugged AF done well with the inclusion of some equipment based on up to date prototypes. The hoards would run us all over if some of the accessories were repro'd in a manner faithful to the originals. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 962	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: Ceramic villages

In a message dated 1/5/99 5:14:53 AM, you wrote: <<Ceramic villages are becoming increasingly popular Christmas items and AF scale trains are probably the perfect size to go with them. I think what would really help make a new S guage starter set sell in the ceramic village market would be a "partially snow covered" sectional track system (like the HO E-Z track aystem but with patches of snow cover on some of the ballast). >> Not only do S-gaugers think S works best with these...........we have a nice store near us in which the Dept 56 series is one of their prime lines of product sold. Two years ago, they contacted me and wanted me to put together a simple AF set that they could operate on a push-button IN THEIR FRONT STORE WINDOW amongst the Dept 56 window display. I did so, and to this day it is still there in operation facing a busy street! Great exposure for S ! BTW---what we ended up using (don't throw rocks yet!) was a Casey Jones engine...... only because they wanted an engine that would require as little maintenance as possible, and operate about as fail-safe as possible! And it hasn't caused a problem in over 2 years! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 963	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: New S Reefers

GOOD NEWS ! NOW AVAILABLE !!! We just received the second run of the Post Road Ale wood-sided reefer. This is our first two-tone car (NYC sides; silver ends and roof). The graphics are terrific. Rather than try to describe it, you can view it in color on our website. IN ADDITION, we also received the frist run of the long-overdue West India Fruit & Steamship Co. reefer. This is a mustard-yellow car with black and white graphics. This line operated a RR ferry service between Miami and Havana in the pre-Castro days. Don't have this car on the website yet, but it wil be there soon. Both cars now available in either scale or highrail (SHS trucks); $36.95 each (+$4 shipping per order). NEXT UP: PFEX UP/SP wood-sided reefers. Artwork is all done for this car, and we should have it available in February! March: the URTC / Fruit Dispatch "banana reefer". MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 964	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: SW1 in the Dispatch

Hi Don, Okay, sign me up for one of those SW1s. That will be the perfect power for my Hayley Mills grain elevator. BTW do you know that Alco S-3s, S-4s, S-5s, S-6s, and T-6s all use the same AAR type A trucks and roughly the same truck centers as the EMD SWs? Just wondering if you knew that. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Robin Thompson wrote: > > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > > Dear "S" Friends, > Yes, we did display a SW-1 at the S Fest and it is pictured in the > Dispatch. One of our friends, Jeff Freeman, modified one of our SW-9s > (he even took off the lovers) and made a SW-1. We are looking at the > possibility of producing this model in the future. > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 965	From: Scott Holm	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Amtrak Superliners for half price?

Does anybody know what hobby shop has the American Models Amtrak Superliner sets for $175? -----Original Message----- From: Jacques Ollivier <jolliv@...> To: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Sunday, January 03, 1999 8:25 PM Subject: [S-Trains] car transporter >From: Jacques Ollivier <jolliv@...> >I saw a L starter set at the hooby shop for half price ($50) today. >Also there were 2 American Models Amtrack Superliner Sets at half >price (about $175). Too modern for me.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 966	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: I am sooooo sorry

It may be that Dave Jasper and I are the only people in the free world who have not received their copies of the Dispatch. Sure it has been very cold in Minnesota and things are not moving fast but Walt has his so I am forced to admit that one of the reasons the Dispatch was late was a delay caused by Dave and I as we got material ready for the issue. There I have admitted that it is our fault, can we have our issue soon? Red Faced and Subdued Ken Zieska

Group: S-Trains	Message: 967	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: I am sooooo sorry

Well Z isn't THAT far after T (as in Thompson) and if memory serves me well J comes well before T. So it's probably not an alphabet problem. If it's taken this long there's probably postage due for the extra time in storage. Isn't that how it works -- two cents postage and 30 cents storage? -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Ken Zieska wrote: > It may be that Dave Jasper and I are the only people in the free world > who have not received their copies of the Dispatch. Sure it has been > very cold in Minnesota and things are not moving fast but Walt has his > so I am forced to admit that one of the reasons the Dispatch was late > was a delay caused by Dave and I as we got material ready for the > issue. There I have admitted that it is our fault, can we have our > issue soon? > Red Faced and Subdued > Ken Zieska

Group: S-Trains	Message: 968	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Updates all around

I just updated my personal web page, the one at http://www.gate.net/~yorke I hope to add more stuff to it, just got to stop sleeping and working. My first Owl update is out there. The bookstores have been updated to point to the 1999 pocket guide. http://www.gate.net/~yorke/booklist2.htm (Amazon) http://members.wbs.net/homepages/p/a/u/paulyorke/store2a.htm (Barnes&Noble) The Database is up to 68 S Folks. If I can help you get your data out there don't hesitate to ask. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/survey/results.htm -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 969	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Re: revive Flyer

Alex Randall wrote: > > From: "Alex Randall" <alex5th@...> > > I see an American Models SW-9 Switcher in my local train show, in scale. > How will it fare on my AF track? > I have images of it flying off the track. > Does these scale engines operate well on old track? > Alex > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm I run three American Models diesels (2GP9s and an F7) with scale wheels on my Flyer track. If the track is well mounted and aligned you should have no problem. If you have problems AM makes replacement wheelsets for hirail, The SW9, however, is an S Helper Service engine which comes with both hirail and scale wheels that you can easily change over. The American Models engine is a Baldwin. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 970	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: PIV and Fire Truck

Thank you George for the PIV explanation. Do you know of anything to explain Charlie Smith's observation that an engine ran poorly with one rectifier, but ran well with another? FIRE TRUCK DaysGoneBy (LLedo) makes a gorgeous 1938(?) Ford Fire Truck I have seen it in red, yellow, and white. $8-9 Seems like it would be a good item for Dave Peck or BTS to stock! Rugged S trains? There ain't no way around it, AF is a toy, not a model, BUT if you take the detail parts off the new engines and put them away in a drawer for a few years, I think are quite close in ruggedness to the old ones. Similarly, if you ADD detail to AF, it makes a good model, because the starting point is ACCURATE (unlike some OTHER toy trains we know)! I still would like to see somebody make scale replacement wheels for AF steamers. Scale engines on AF track; I have tried this, but had trouble getting them through the AF switches. Is this not a problem for other people? Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division 2001 - First year of the next millenium ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 971	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: PIV and Fire Truck

About 10 years ago I had a 4'x8' layout built with AF track, it was a loop with a passing siding and one siding to a factory. I operated a American Models FP-7 and GP9/18 with scale wheels over the layout, being careful when operating thru the curve leg of the turnout to travel at prototype slow speeds. "S", Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 972	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: An Orient Express Model Train?

This question is directed well beyond S, but here goes -- a fellow colleague has gotten bit by the train bug and was wondering if a scale (any) replica was ever made of the Orient Express. I am pretty sure that nothing was ever done in S. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks V. Neimanis e-mail - v.neimanis@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 973	From: JoeAWood@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Club Logo cars

I have taken on a project for my club, The Altoona Area Train Collectors club in Altoona Pa. We are interested in trading cars with club logos to run on our S guage module we currently are in the process of acquiring some cars to put our logo on and are interested in trading them for cars with other club logos on if anyone knows of a scource for blank box ,hopper or gondola cars please let me know our module spends a good deal of time set up around central Pa and it seems like fun to run other clubs logos around the tracks we have been set up in the Railroaders Museum in Altoona Pa for the past month and we do go to some of the shows in Pittsburg Pa Anyone who is interested or has info on cars please let me know THANKS JOEAWOOD@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 974	From: Stephen D. Smedberg	Date: 1/5/1999
Subject: Reproduction

I need some help finding reproduction parts for a AF 648 Track cleaning car (tank and scrubs). Any help is greatly appreciated Stephen Smedberg

Group: S-Trains	Message: 975	From: Stephen D. Smedberg	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Reproduction

I need some help finding reproduction parts for a AF 648 Track cleaning car (tank and scrubs). Any help is greatly appreciated Stephen Smedberg

Group: S-Trains	Message: 976	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: 751 Log Loader Parts.....

I have found a set of useable uprights, but I am still in need of a good base for this item, so I can at least run this thing. It will be a kitbashing job overall, but I'll have an industry. Let me know if you have a good base for sale. Thanks.....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 977	From: John Foley	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Disdpatch

___ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 05 Jan 1999 18:04:24 -0600 From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...> Subject: I am sooooo sorry It may be that Dave Jasper and I are the only people in the free world who have not received their copies of the Dispatch. Sure it has been very cold in Minnesota and things are not moving fast but Walt has his so I am forced to admit that one of the reasons the Dispatch was late was a delay caused by Dave and I as we got material ready for the issue. There I have admitted that it is our fault, can we have our issue soon? Red Faced and Subdued Ken Zieska Hi Ken I spoke to Bill Moore our NASG treasurer. He said that you and Dave should have gotten your Dec. Dispatches and will straighten it out. Bill asked me to apolorgize to both Dave and yourself. Please no fault on your part. Looking forward to convention!! Your Friends Bill Moore John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 978	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: PIV and Fire Truck

mhrreast@... wrote: > > From: mhrreast@... > > Thank you George for the PIV explanation. > Do you know of anything to explain Charlie Smith's > observation that an engine ran poorly with one > rectifier, but ran well with another? > Note that the poor performance was with a 4 amp 100 volt bridge. Good performance was with the 4 amp 50 volt bridge. > Scale engines on AF track; I have tried this, but had > trouble getting them through the AF switches. Is this > not a problem for other people? > > Ted, you know I run my GP9s and F7 through AF and Gargrave switches. Like I say, mounting and alignment of the AF track is everything. They won't run through AF track just laid on a surface and not secured. BTW, the secret to the F7 tracking reliability was to file enough the rear setps thinner to miss the brake cylinder on the rear truck. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 979	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: revive Flyer

Dear Alex, We do not recommend operating our SW-9 using the "code 110" or scale wheels on AF switches or the 90 deg. crossing. But, our AF compatible wheels seem to have no problem on any AF track. Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. 1-800-465-0303 Chuck Smith wrote: > > From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> > > Alex Randall wrote: > > > > From: "Alex Randall" <alex5th@...> > > > > I see an American Models SW-9 Switcher in my local train show, in scale. > > How will it fare on my AF track? > > I have images of it flying off the track. > > Does these scale engines operate well on old track? > > Alex > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > I run three American Models diesels (2GP9s and an F7) with scale wheels > on my Flyer track. If the track is well mounted and aligned you should > have no problem. If you have problems AM makes replacement wheelsets > for hirail, > The SW9, however, is an S Helper Service engine which comes with both > hirail and scale wheels that you can easily change over. The American > Models engine is a Baldwin. > > -- > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the > S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 980	From: Robert Sharkey	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: AF 741 Handcar and Shed

I recently acquired a AF 741 Handcar and Tool Shed combo. The two pieces that make up this accessory are pretty neat but I am somewhat puzzled about how it is supposed to be used on a layout. The handcar is a one directional, non-reversing unit which fits nicely inside the shed. The shed is a red and white metal building which only has an opening at the front end, the back side being solid. It would appear that the shed was designed to sit at the end of a spur; it cannot straddle a section of track. When it's all set up and power is applied to the track, the car rolls out of the shed and moves along the track. But then I'm stuck: my question being, How is the handcar supposed to get back into the shed? If you manually turn the handcar around, it will go back to the shed but then it can't come out again. And you can't put the car on it's own loop as the shed is not open in the back and can't straddle a section of track. No instructions came with this unit. Does anyone know what AF had in mind when they created this particular accessory? I've seen some very recent letters in this group about using solid state diodes to enable the handcar go in reverse. If you did that, you could probably run it on an isolated track with a separate DC transformer but I don't see how you could ever let the handcar enter a "mainline". Any ideas/insight/information out there?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 981	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: AF 741 Handcar and Shed

>From: Robert Sharkey <rjsharke@...> > >I recently acquired a AF 741 Handcar and Tool Shed combo. >I've seen some very recent letters in this group about using solid state >diodes to enable the handcar go in reverse. If you did that, you could >probably run it on an isolated track with a separate DC transformer but >I don't see how you could ever let the handcar enter a "mainline". Any >ideas/insight/information out there? > I assume you're aware that you can run your entire layout on DC. None of the AF motors care and reversing works the same as on AC. -Daniel

Group: S-Trains	Message: 982	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: AF 741 Handcar and Shed

In a message dated 1/6/99 10:47:35 PM !!!First Boot!!!, rjsharke@... writes: << Does anyone know what AF had in mind when they created this particular accessory? >> I have seen photos from Gilbert in the hundreds of books and other materials I have read over the years, where there is a small section of track approximately 2 straight sections long placed next to the main line somewhere appropriately in a rail yard location. The shed was placed on the end of the track, fake ties and other appropriate yard junk was placed around the area, and the handcar placed on the dead track section. There was no switch connecting this little piece of track to the main line. As with many prototype operations, it was expected that your immaginary "Gandy Dancers" would move the car to the main line by hand using sheer muscle, and off they would go. Real handcars were not considered that heavy for two or three brawny guys to hoist it up on the rails. Later diesel powered units of course put an end to that hernia waiting to happen. This is how Gilbert planned for this to be used. A Tool Shed nearby would be a perfect accent piece to the scene.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 983	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Pac Rail

From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> Subject: Pacific Rail Shops Does Pacific Rail Shops have either an e'mail address or phone #? Can't seem to find one anywhere... Thanks in advance Michael ============== PO BOX 867 Coos Bay, Ore. 97420-0201 541/267-6664 ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 984	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 96

Additional notes on PIV (Peak Invers Voltage). When a diode is used in any circuit it must withstand in the reverse direction all the voltage available from the source. We know that a transformer outputs 4 to 30 volts peak, so why worry about a diode that has a rating of 50 volts. Used on a model train, a 50 volt PIV rated diode will break down. Why. Because of the brushes and wheels. Any motor is inductive, and when the current is broken the voltage will build up until the current can be maintained. This voltage reaches astronomical numbers then an arc is performed and the current continues to flow. Look at your AF loco in the dark and watch the sparks. PIV. You can measure this kickback voltage across any inductor and it will go as high as the insulation will allow. A diode is a bad insulator so will break down. Do not use cheap low rated diodes. 1N4004 is rated at 400V PIV, a 1N4007 is rated at 700 Volts PIV. both are rated at 1 amp in the forward direction (not enough to run most motors). Be careful. If you need 200ma, use a diode of 1 Amp rating, and in a model RR environment use as high a rated PIV as you can get. PS: Putting snubbing networks across inductors reduces the levels of the kickback voltages, more about that later. Robert E. Yablonski VP Engineering Alligator Technologies yabo@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 985	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: running on DC (was: AF 741 Handcar and Shed)

On 1/6/1999 7:21 PM, Daniel Neumayer, Daniel@..., said: >I assume you're aware that you can run your entire layout on DC. None of >the AF motors care and reversing works the same as on AC. Hi. I'm a newbie to the list and returning to the world of AF trains after a 30 year absence. I'm just resurrecting my 40 yr old boyhood AF and need to replace the transformer. Should I just buy a DC instead of hunting down an old 1 1/2B or buying a new AC? Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 986	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: running on DC (was: AF 741 Handcar and Shed)

>On 1/6/1999 7:21 PM, Daniel Neumayer, Daniel@..., said: > >>I assume you're aware that you can run your entire layout on DC. None of >>the AF motors care and reversing works the same as on AC. > >Hi. I'm a newbie to the list and returning to the world of AF trains >after a 30 year absence. I'm just resurrecting my 40 yr old boyhood AF >and need to replace the transformer. Should I just buy a DC instead of >hunting down an old 1 1/2B or buying a new AC? > >Michael I now run my trains under DCC control, but before that I was running them on DC. It has the advantage of running all the trains, AC or DC, and for DC motors or those converted to DC you have easy direction control with no danger of the train reversing on dirty track. The problem for me was finding a powerful enough DC power supply. My understanding is that the old AF motors draw up to 2.5 amps each. Since I run 4 trains at a time I needed a 10 amp pack. Hope this helps, -Daniel

Group: S-Trains	Message: 987	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: Re: I am sooooo sorry

In message <3692A888.F9DB895E@...>, Ken Zieska <mhrr@...> writes >From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...> > >It may be that Dave Jasper and I are the only people in the free world >who have not received their copies of the Dispatch. Sure it has been >very cold in Minnesota and things are not moving fast but Walt has his >so I am forced to admit that one of the reasons the Dispatch was late >was a delay caused by Dave and I as we got material ready for the >issue. There I have admitted that it is our fault, can we have our >issue soon? >Red Faced and Subdued >Ken Zieska Ken Please don't be so down hearted, - I didn't submit anything for the Dispatch and I'm still waiting.....but then I do live on the wrong side of the pond, and the USPS rowing boat is V slow so maybe I'll get the December issue in March! -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 988	From: alice beachy	Date: 1/6/1999
Subject: [Fwd: 1/64 Period Fire Trucks]

I tried sending this yesterday but too many typos in the addresses.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 989	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF 741 Handcar and Shed

In a message dated 1/6/99 5:47:37 PM, rjsharke@... wrote: <<I recently acquired a AF 741 Handcar and Tool Shed combo. The two pieces that make up this accessory are pretty neat but I am somewhat puzzled about how it is supposed to be used on a layout.>> Robert, A good question. I was given a 741 and hand car shed and 740 hand car combination for the Christmas of 1954, and I still have it. My belief is that this combination was intended to be used in a 'hands on' mode. If we take the prototypical (Proto-64 ? :)) mode for a view, then one should place a section of straight track perpendicular to your main line and locate the shed at the end of this short straight section. In real life, hand car sheds were placed this way. The hand cars were rolled out of the shed and then carried by two men who placed the car on the right of way. When they returned from their inspection trip (or joy ride), the car was then lifted by hand back on to the short straight section and rolled back into the shed for storage. This arrangement is what I currently have on my layout. As a youngster, I often placed the shed at the end of a siding, but beware that much of the Gilbert rolling stock is a wee bit too tall for the front opening -- something else I discovered back in 1954. If you prefer a more automatic style of operation, modifying your 740 via solid state electronics, as recently discussed on this board, is one solution. Acquiring a 742 hand car is another. Have fun! RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 990	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: running on DC (was: AF 741 Handcar and Shed)

Michael Westphal wrote: > > From: Michael Westphal <westphal@...> > > On 1/6/1999 7:21 PM, Daniel Neumayer, Daniel@..., said: > > >I assume you're aware that you can run your entire layout on DC. None of > >the AF motors care and reversing works the same as on AC. > > Hi. I'm a newbie to the list and returning to the world of AF trains > after a 30 year absence. I'm just resurrecting my 40 yr old boyhood AF > and need to replace the transformer. Should I just buy a DC instead of > hunting down an old 1 1/2B or buying a new AC? > > Michael > You can run everything on DC but need several amps of power. Sequence reversing for AF motors will work on DC, though the units will be a little "stickier" if not really loose and clean, This is because DC seems to put some residual magnetism on reversing units that doesn't appear on AC. Reversing a handcar requires addition of a bridge rectifier to make it behave as a permanent magnet DC motor. All permag DC motors (such as DC can motors as opposed to series wound AC/DC motors like AF) require DC power to run and polarity reversing to reverse. Polarity reverse requires a DPDT switch on the DC output to the tracks. Polarity reverse will not reverse a Flyer motor running on DC unless it has had the rectifier inserted in the motor circuit between the field and armature. For a diagram of how to insert the rectifier see Paul Yorke's page http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/repair/rectifier.htm -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 991	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF 741 Handcar and Shed

Well, at last someone pointed out the prototypical motorcar shed setup. The 'rails' from the track to the shed are often wood, too. Shed's about 20 feet off the tracks. The tracks have a wood platform, similar to a grade crossing platform in them, so the motorcar can be rotated easily. (You ever turn one without the platform?? It's no fun, but it can be done, the cars even have a special casting on the frame to help you get the wheels up over the rail in this event.) I've seen two-car sheds, and in the Dunsmuir yards was a larger garage, where the cars were repaired, same trackside set-up too (but on one of the side tracks in the fueling area) I think this building *may* still be standing, it was the only thing left about 5 years ago. Gilbert's idea for this accessory was some left-over O Gauge tool sheds (the talking tool shed?) and a way to make the handcar NEW!! Different! for the year. Just like the Branford dinner, existing car body, and accessory base, add paint, light bulb, & voila! a NEW item! (and no new tooling expenses--well, except for the TV antenna and rubber stamps). They were making toys, remember?? (Gee, someone tell big L, I think they forgot....) S'incerely, David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 992	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: DCC

>I am going to convert to DCC in the near future for my AF layout. > >Which system are you using? Which decoders used and how are they wired? I am using Lenz decoders. Number 230, at 2.5 amps will handle the old AF motors. Model 130, 1 amp will handle the modern can motors used by Lionel and others. All these allow you to programm starting and braking momentum as well as maximum speed. As for wiring, two wires go to the track pickup and two to the motor (yes, you need the rectifer bridge discussed here recently for the old AC motors for directional control.) There wires for front and rear lights as well as accessories. I use these to turn the smoke on and off. The directions that come with the docoders are clear. > >I am still not sure as to where the transformer(power pack) fits in the >scheme. I would be using the same 4 or 5 trains you mention, what are you >using for power? You can use any power supply, AC or DC, as long as it supplies enough amps. I was using my old AF transformer, but switched to a new power supply from an electronics store to get away from the loud buzz of the old unit. The power supply does not need to be regulated, that is the voltage can vary and the DCC units take care of it. All of my DCC stuff is from Lenz except the power station (which is NOT a power supply,) My power station is from North Coast as Lenz (as of a year ago) did not make a 10 amp model. > >Appreciate any help you can offer. I found all this a little daunting initally, but having four trains running on my 389 feet of main track is a sight to behold, well worth the effort. I suggest you start with http://www.tttrains.com/ They have links to all the manufacturers. As I said here recently, they have been amazing helpful. BTW, one reason I went with Lenz is there 10 year guarentee. I once shorted out a decoder by mistake, watched a componet glow red and then become a short-lived smoke unit. I was replaced immediately. > >John Griffin >RxMan46321@... You are welcome. Please keep in touch with your DCC adventures. I am in Oakland, CA. It would be too much to hope that you were nearby.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 993	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: Handcar and shed

In a message dated 1/7/99 5:20:00 AM, you wrote: <<But then I'm stuck: my question being, How is the handcar supposed to get back into the shed? >> "The hand of God.........! " otherwise known as "manual labor".

Group: S-Trains	Message: 994	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Stall current

In message <01be3a2a$977f6aa0$1d62ccc0@patndave>, PatnDave <patndave@...> writes >From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...> > >Hello Ken, >Sorry, I have not yet had the pleasure of sound or DCC decoder >installations, but in general I'd think as long as the powered unit you're >installing the sound card into does not draw a full (peak) 1- 1/2 amps, you >should be OK. Probably the best way to test the motor for peak amperage draw >would be to place the locomotive on a section of test track which is >connected to the power supply and amp gauge. Grab the coupler and increase >throttle until you get wheel slip. Reading the amp gauge at this point is >your max amp draw. I'd guess that the AM FP-7 would be some what less than >1-1/2 > amps. Probably something more like .75 - 1 full A under this condition. The recommended way to test the stall current is to take the lid off the engine and to stall the engine by holding the flywheel. -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 995	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Soundtrax, SW9s & FP7s

In message <36944B53.93231738@...>, Ken Zieska <mhrr@...> writes >From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...> > Now on to my question. I have two Soundtraxx decoders rated at >1-1/2 amps. I know they work in the SHS SW-9 but are these units enough >for an American Models FP-7? I appreciate this is a more difficult >question because AM changes their motors around allot. If anyone has >experience with these, I would appreciate it. >Ken Z. Hi Ken I'm purchasing my first soundrax unit at present, to go into a SW9 - any hints....? With respect to the AM FP7, all you need to do is establish the stall current of the motor. You may have to wait for the higher rated Soundrax chips if the FP7 draws more than 1.5 amps but I'll be suprised. -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 996	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: DCC

> >Thanks for the quick response. I feel a little more confidant about DCC. I was >leaning toward Digitraxx for the command station but realized decoders could >be anybody's. This is true. I have learned that other components (turnout controls, feedback encoders, occupancy detectors) must be the same brand as the command station. This was a surprise to me. Again, Tried and True Train handles all the brands and knows all there is to know. > >If you use AC do you still use the rectifier? I have been using a MRC Tech III >for power right now and intend to install the DC rectifiers soon anyway. > The rectifier is necessary for direction control the way you expect with DC. Without it, the direction is the same as with AC power (forward-stop-backward-stop) > BTW: I keep copying S-trains on these because I am not an expert and others may want to comment. Take a sleigh ride for me! - daniel

Group: S-Trains	Message: 997	From: paul1049	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: transformers

I have an old 2B (?) American Flyer tranformer. I am not real knowledgable about electricity, but I believe the transformer is rated at 15-18 volts. I checked for voltage at the transfomer, and also on the tracks. I got a reading of about 12 volts, and it went to 10 volts when I opened the throttle. I have noticed recently that the trains are going slower and slower. I have added a couple of accessories and lights. Do I need a new transformer? Are there any recommendations as to what size, brand, etc.? The people at the hobby shop say I have a big enough rated transformer, but it gettts real warm (hot) after about 1/2 hour of running. Thanks for your help, Paul

Group: S-Trains	Message: 998	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/7/1999
Subject: Re: transformers

Paul, It sounds as though you have either a high-resistance connection, or a partial short, OR a transformer coil that is developing internal short. I don't understand your track voltage readings. With throttle off, you should get no reading, although with a digital meter, you may get a micro-voltage reading. As you open the throttle you should get around 4 volts initially, then slowly rising to 15 volts, maybe a bit more at full throttle. If you have a loco on the track, the readings will drop some, but shouldn't much. It depends on what accessories you have added. Another Transformer, like a 1-1/2 shouldn't cost much at a train show, around $5 -$10 and you can run your lights and accessories with it, advantage is you can use throttle to set lights where you want them then! Let us know what you find/do! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 999	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: transformers and DCC

A separate transformer for accessories is a good idea. I just bought a second 1 1/2 B for $10 to power some accessories separate from my lights. David D's point about using the throttle as a dimmer is spot on. One thing, be sure you buy a transformer with a number that ends in "B". That signifies it comes with a breaker in the event of a short. Earlier models did not always come so equipped. OK, dumb question of the millenium. What does DCC stand for, and what features/advantages/benefits could an AC operator of Gilbert era trains like me experience if I switched over? I get CTT, SG, AFCC Collector, etc., but somewhere along the line I must have missed the "DCC for Dummies" artice. If someone could jot down a primer for me I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1000	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC

David_Horn@... wrote: ... > > OK, dumb question of the millenium. What does DCC stand for, and what > features/advantages/benefits could an AC operator of Gilbert era trains > like me experience if I switched over? I get CTT, SG, AFCC Collector, > etc., but somewhere along the line I must have missed the "DCC for Dummies" > artice. If someone could jot down a primer for me I'd appreciate it. > Thanks. Hi David and gang, This is not a dumb question. DCC stands for Digital Command Control. It is a standard prepared by the NMRA. You can find out more of the technical details at: http://users.vnet.net/paulrver/st_welco.html The essense of the system is that every locomotive (or even accessory, if you wish) has a 'decoder'. You use a handheld 'control' to send signals to the loco. The signals can be: Increase speed, Decrease speed, turn lights on, sound horn and stuff like that. Individual features vary wildly. As many locos as you want can be on the same piece of track. Each is controlled seperately - just like the real world. For American Flyer and other S types, only two wires are absolultely required. Exceptions to that rule are basically two: reverse loops (or turntables) and better power distribution. The advertisers say: "Run your trains, not your control panel." There are provisions for multiple unit operation, sound modules, momentum effects, customized speed profiles, computer controls, signalling and more. Power is always present on the rails, so, lighted cars are always lit - standing still or not. Digitrax offers a radio control that need not be attached to the layout (for normal operation). Lenz, Wangco and Digitrax all have complete systems. There are others who provide excellent components. A single handheld control easily handles two locomotives at the same time. If you are good with the control, you can run more - but it is a dance situation. Digitrax has info at: http://www.digitrax.com/ Lenz and Wangco must have links as well, I just don't know them. Model Rectifier Corp has a simple system available which provides a control and booster all in one as well as locomotives. To date, I know of factory mounted decoders (they are sometimes called receivers) in HO and N locos only. But, the SHS SW-9 is ready to go with a socket and space for a decoder right from the factory. So, to run Flyer locos it is necessary to convert them to DC operation and to isolate the motor from any connection with the rails. The only way for rail power to contact the motor must be through the decoder Locos with smoke and piston powered chuff will need the larger capacity decoders. Locos with (retro-fitted) can motors and without smoke and chuff can use smaller capacity decoders. With any luck, you will also get responses from other members. Once you try it, you may not want to go back to big old black boxes again. Great Zot itS, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1001	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC

At 09:08 AM 1/8/99 -0500, David_Horn@... wrote: >From: David_Horn@... > <snip> >OK, dumb question of the millenium. What does DCC stand for, and what >features/advantages/benefits could an AC operator of Gilbert era trains >like me experience if I switched over? I get CTT, SG, AFCC Collector, >etc., but somewhere along the line I must have missed the "DCC for Dummies" >artice. If someone could jot down a primer for me I'd appreciate it. >Thanks. > Nope -- not a dumb question DCC is Digital Command Control. While there are a several systems on the market that would properly be classified as digital command control (lower case), generally when DCC the acronym is used it refers the standards and recommended practices promulgated by the NMRA, and the family of compatible/interoperable products from multiple manufacturers that implement these NMRA standards and recommended practices. Try this as a starting point for more info: http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cedarlane/nmradcc-info.html It's the clinic handout we've used for several DCC clinics at S gauge gatherings. Regards Michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Greene North Grafton, MA 01536 NMRA Life Member #5433 Home e'mail: mgreene@... Past Chair, NMRA DCC Working Group Member, NTRAK, NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, The 470 Railroad Club For "Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge": http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cedarlane/nmradcc-info.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1002	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC

>From: David_Horn@... > >OK, dumb question of the millenium. What does DCC stand for, and what >features/advantages/benefits could an AC operator of Gilbert era trains >like me experience if I switched over? I get CTT, SG, AFCC Collector, >etc., but somewhere along the line I must have missed the "DCC for Dummies" >artice. If someone could jot down a primer for me I'd appreciate it. >Thanks. > Digital Command Control You install a microprocessor in each engine. This allows you to run any number of trains on one track, controlled by a handheld unit or a computer. From the handheld you control speed and direction. The chip contains a small capacitor, so it is less likely to stop when a bad spot of track in encountered. From the handheld you also turn the headlight on and off (If the engine has a rear light then the switching from head to tail light is automatic.) From the handheld you also control you can turn on other features such as smoke, sound, additional lights, whatever you want. Each engine can be programed with top speed, which you can set to realistic proto speed, or perhaps, just set so the train does not fly off the curves. You also program starting and stopping momentum. When I start my 322 Northern, it will have been sitting on the siding doing nothing. I first turn on the smoke, then the headlight. Then I set it for full speed ahead. Since it is pulling 18 hoppers filled with coal, I have the momentum set very high. Thus it starts off very slowly, taking the better part of a minute to reach full speed, which is not very fast for this slow freight. My MP passenger ABA really flies at scale speeds of over 100 mph. Then again, my SW-9 from SHS comes up to speed really fast pulling only a couple of cars, but its top speed is low. Back to my Northern with its coal load. As it is moving at top speed, I tell it to stop and reverse and then I just watch as it VERY slowly comes to a stop, the headlight goes out, and then it slowly picks up speed in reverse. Slow speed operation is easy. If I set my AM Royal Blue to the slowest possible speed, it takes 9 seconds for the drive wheel to complete on revolution. Another feature is doubleheaders. You can tell the system to treat two engines as a doubleheader, then they move in tandem. When you tell an engine to go forward, it goes forward, regardless of the direction it is pointed on the track. An exception would be two A units, back to back as part of a double header. DCC can be used to control turnouts and other accessories, such as turnouts. Block occupancy detectors are available, although it takes special extra stuff, or a computer, to use the info to control the trains. I have not yet tried these. That about sums up my DCC adventures so far. I need DCC because I have only one loop of 389 feet of track, and watching one train take five minutes to make the trip is not very exciting. Watching four trains is a lot more fun. I love watching two long trains pass each other going opposite directions on the straightaway is a dream come true. It is expensive. The cheapest decoder is $30. I pay $80 for one that can handle the amperage of the old AF motors. Starter sets are available. There is a FAQ and tons of other info at http://www.tttrains.com/ All the manufactures are represented there. Hope this helps. -Daniel

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1003	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Lenz Site for DCC

The link to Lenz is: http://www.lenz.com/ Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1004	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Non-Flyer Track and action cars

Anybody got any sketches or photographs of how... they attach track trips and the contacts for my action cars when using track other than Flyer? I would like to add them to my site. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1005	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC

From: Bill Porter <wpporter@...> > <big snip> >So, to run Flyer locos it is necessary to convert them to DC operation >and to isolate the motor from any connection with the rails. The only >way for rail power to contact the motor must be through the decoder >Locos with smoke and piston powered chuff will need the larger capacity >decoders. Locos with (retro-fitted) can motors and without smoke and >chuff can use smaller capacity decoders. > >Great Zot itS, >Bill Porter > Bill gave a good description, but you do not always need to convert the loco to DC first. Digitrax's DH140, DG380L, and DG580L can be set up to run AC motors directly. Also check out the list member Michael Greene's booklet. It's a good introduction and you can find it at: http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cedarlane/nmradcc-info.html If you want to use a DC only decoder like one of the Soundtraxx ones, you will have to convert the motor to DC. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1006	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC

----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Neumayer <Daniel@...> To: <David_Horn@...> Cc: <S-trains@onelist.com> Sent: Friday, January 08, 1999 10:39 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: transformers and DCC >From: Daniel Neumayer <Daniel@...> > <big snip> > >It is expensive. The cheapest decoder is $30. I pay $80 for one that can >handle the amperage of the old AF motors. Starter sets are available. > >There is a FAQ and tons of other info at http://www.tttrains.com/ All the >manufactures are represented there. > >Hope this helps. > >-Daniel > Luckily prices are dropping. Some of the lower cost 1 amp decoders have a MSRP of around $20, with street prices below that. Low enough in my opinion that they can be used for other purposes. However, the higher ampere rated decoders still cost more, but they usually also have more features. Looking back, 10 years ago I was buying Dynatrol receivers for $50 each, and all they did was speed and direction at a factory set channel (one of 18 available!), and I thought that was great. We've come a long way since then. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1007	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/8/1999
Subject: AF DC

Don't forget that ANY AF transformer can supply DC by putting a bridge diode on its output. Then use a DPDT switch between the diode and the track to reverse the voltage polarity. This is marginal for can motors because the lowest voltage is still 7 volts, but that is not a problem if you are running all AF motors. See the June '96 Dispatch for an article on this. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division 2001 - First year of the next millenium ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1008	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Trains

Hi Guy"S"; I was told DC would not hurt AC motors. So My loco was run during a performance contest using 18 V DC. The AC motor burned out. Maybe just a fluke. But never again. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1009	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: Trains

In a message dated 1/9/99 6:10:40 AM !!!First Boot!!!, cofa@... writes: << From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> Hi Guy"S"; I was told DC would not hurt AC motors. So My loco was run during a performance contest using 18 V DC. The AC motor burned out. Maybe just a fluke. But never again. Roger >> Maybe its because according to the AF service manual the motor is rated at 12 - 15 volts not 18 ?????

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1010	From: Richard McClary	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Subscription question...

Sorry about the off-topic. (Questions like this usually really annoy me, being a systems admin myself!) I am currently subscribed to the digest version. This is NOT acceptible to me. The web site tells how to switch TO digest. How does one change things so that they receive individual messages (instead of the digest once/day)?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1011	From: Raymond Abbott	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Dcc Loco Modules

I Would like to know if there are plans for Dcc Locomotive modules available. At $30 for the one amp is not bad but , $80 is to much for the higher rating! I rather build them myself. Ray Abbott RASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1012	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: roller bearing

On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 19:54:59 EST mhrreast@... writes: > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 09:19:32 -0500 > From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...> >Subject: Scale Roller Bearing Trucks > >I too have the desire to some day see true roller bearing trucks with >actual rotating bearing caps. I've been contemplating a method to >accomplish this for a long time but have never actually experimented If I understand the idea correctly, there is a plastic V riding on the axle. This does a good job of minimizing surface contact, but it misses another point. With pointed axles, not only is surface contact area minimized, but also relative motion between the surfaces, since the point of the axle has almost zero speed. When the point of contact is on the perimeter of the axle, there is relative motion, and friction, regardless of how small the contact AREA is. I hope this analysis is wrong, because I like the concept, but....... Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division 2001 - First year of the next millenium ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1013	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: Dcc Loco Modules

One way to get a higher current rating is use a decoder booster between the decoder motor output and the motor. Tony's Train Exchange sells two versions. The 4 amp version is $27 assembled or $11 in kit form. For more info check his web page at: http://www.ttx-dcc.com/list.htm There is some information on homemade DCC systems and at least one mobile decoder on the web, but weather the trouble is worth it is another decision. There are some decoders available now with street prices below $20. (The cheap ones used to be $30.) If you use one of these and one of the above booster kits, you have a 4 amp decoder for $30. Space shouldn't be a problem in an S gauge loco that needs that amp rating. Dave Heine ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Abbott <rmanew@...> To: S-List reply <s-trains@onelist.com> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 1999 4:08 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Dcc Loco Modules >From: Raymond Abbott <rmanew@...> > > I Would like to know if there are plans for Dcc Locomotive modules >available. > At $30 for the one amp is not bad but , $80 is to much for the higher >rating! > I rather build them myself. Ray Abbott RASG > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1014	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: Dcc Loco Modules

At 04:08 PM 1/9/99 -0500, Raymond Abbott wrote: >From: Raymond Abbott <rmanew@...> > > I Would like to know if there are plans for Dcc Locomotive modules >available. > At $30 for the one amp is not bad but , $80 is to much for the higher >rating! > I rather build them myself. Ray Abbott RASG > Ray I would definitely consider the "decoder booster" sold by Tony's Train Exchange (http://www.ttx-dcc.com). If you willing to build up the kit, it's a very inexpensive add-on to the lower priced 1 amp boosters, and most importantly it means you don't need to write all the software for the decoder which is a real pain unless your hobby is writing software. I suspect it can be a real pain to code, and then fix all the interoperability issues. Also Larry Puckett published the schematics for the "decoder booster" in a previous DCC article (one of his series) in Model Railroading, so you could locate that and find the components yourself. Michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Greene North Grafton, MA 01536 NMRA Life Member #5433 Home e'mail: mgreene@... Past Chair, NMRA DCC Working Group Member, NTRAK, NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, The 470 Railroad Club For "Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge": http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cedarlane/nmradcc-info.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1015	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC

>From: "Dave Heine" <dheine@...> > >Luckily prices are dropping. Some of the lower cost 1 amp decoders have a >MSRP of around $20, with street prices below that. Low enough in my opinion >that they can be used for other purposes. However, the higher ampere rated >decoders still cost more, but they usually also have more features. > Thanks for the info and the perspective. "used for other purposes".... what do you have in mind? I could see controling the lighting in passenger cars. what else? Thanks, -Daniel

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1016	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC

How about controlling lights and sounds in one of the new S Helper Service cabooses? :-) A flicker in the stove, a little talking between the crew, ... At 06:55 PM 1/9/99 -0800, you wrote: >From: Daniel Neumayer <Daniel@...> > >>From: "Dave Heine" <dheine@...> >> >>Luckily prices are dropping. Some of the lower cost 1 amp decoders have a >>MSRP of around $20, with street prices below that. Low enough in my opinion >>that they can be used for other purposes. However, the higher ampere rated >>decoders still cost more, but they usually also have more features. >> > >Thanks for the info and the perspective. "used for other purposes".... what >do you have in mind? I could see controling the lighting in passenger cars. >what else? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Greene North Grafton, MA 01536 NMRA Life Member #5433 Home e'mail: mgreene@... Past Chair, NMRA DCC Working Group Member, NTRAK, NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, The 470 Railroad Club For "Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge": http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cedarlane/nmradcc-info.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1017	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC

I few things I thought of besides lights in passenger cars: Control Clickety-Clack sound unit in caboose or other car. Lights in a caboose. Smoke unit for caboose (or passenger car) stove. Operable MOW cars. Control stock car sound units. Operating couplers. Waving engineer (or waving Santa on the Christmas caboose). I'm sure there's more. Anyone have any novel ideas? You can do a lot more with DCC than train speed and direction, and turn the headlights on and off. Roco already produces a DCC controlled crane in HO. Dave Heine ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Neumayer <Daniel@...> To: Dave Heine <dheine@...> Cc: <S-trains@onelist.com> Sent: Saturday, January 09, 1999 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Re: transformers and DCC >>From: "Dave Heine" <dheine@...> >> >>Luckily prices are dropping. Some of the lower cost 1 amp decoders have a >>MSRP of around $20, with street prices below that. Low enough in my opinion >>that they can be used for other purposes. However, the higher ampere rated >>decoders still cost more, but they usually also have more features. >> > >Thanks for the info and the perspective. "used for other purposes".... what >do you have in mind? I could see controling the lighting in passenger cars. >what else? > >Thanks, >-Daniel > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1018	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC

From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> > >How about controlling lights and sounds in one of the new S Helper Service >cabooses? :-) >A flicker in the stove, a little talking between the crew, ... > Bacon scented smoke from the smokestack.. Sorry, I couldn't resist. <g> Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1019	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/9/1999
Subject: Bill Geracci

I was just looking through some old Mainline Modelers and I had my memory jogged about a prominent S scale modeler in the 1980s -- Bill Geracci. Bill built some fantastic models mostly from scratch. I was especially impressed with his FM Erie Built that rode on an AF PA underframe. Whatever happened to Bill Geracci? -- Keith Thompson in Seattle.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1020	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: DCC actions

Based on what I see observe at train shows, using DCC to activate a whistle should be at the top of the list! EVERYBODY loves to hear the whistling AC engnies. That is something that S scale can provide that they don't hear from little scales. Ringing bell would be a close second for a switch engine. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division 2001 - First year of the next millenium ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1021	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Survey Data Input Options

In a never ending quest for Total Customer Satisfaction.. (hope you got your boots on) I have added three new methods for submitting survey data. Excel spread sheet, Text file and htm file. See the results page for additional information. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/survey/results.htm Thanks for helping me with this data. The results page is a great way to find folks that share your particular 'S' interests. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1022	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: White auto store set 20212

Greetings, I have just read the article on the White's Auto sets from the early 1960s in Classic Toy Trains and If I read it correctly my twin Santa Fe F-9s were a 1961 only item. Were these diesels available for seperate sale or only available with this 20212 set? Also, does anyone have a better exploded view/parts list of an F-9 than what is in the K-line service manual so when I clear up my Christmas debt:) I can Finally purchase some restoration parts for these Santa Fe twins. Jeff Tangeman ps. I could almost assemble one of these 20212 sets from all of my pikemaster spares except for the missing super rare WSX White boxcar, darn:)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1023	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: PIV

Rhett T. George wrote: > > From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...> > > In normal operation, A F locomotives rarely have more than about 4 V > across the field coil. Therefore the bridge rectifier used within the > locomotive for obtaining polarity reversing enjoys an easy life as it > will suffer inverse voltages on its diodes of only a few volts. > > Hope this helps. > > Rhett George > Does this mean I should prefer the field over the armature as the preferred location for the rectifier output when converting an AF motor to DC polarity reversing? -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1024	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 100

In a message dated 99-01-10 05:12:21 EST, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << Message: 1 Date: Sat, 9 Jan 1999 09:07:29 EST From: Trains16@... Subject: Re: Trains In a message dated 1/9/99 6:10:40 AM !!!First Boot!!!, cofa@... writes: << From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> Hi Guy"S"; I was told DC would not hurt AC motors. So My loco was run during a performance contest using 18 V DC. The AC motor burned out. Maybe just a fluke. But never again. Roger >> Maybe its because according to the AF service manual the motor is rated at 12 - 15 volts not 18 ????? >> The larger AF transformers are rated at 18 volts, so this should not be the problem. A universal motor such as was used in the AF locos works exactly the same whether on AC or DC. The enamel on the windings in these motors is 40 or 50 years old and it is not unusual for it to break down, particularly in the armatures. The diesels are especially prone to this, since the windings are so short and tend to run hotter. By a "performance contest" I assume the loco was pulling a heavy load. This would also contribute to the problem, as it would run even hotter. I would not blame the use of DC or the 18 volts for the failure. I have over 20 Flyer locos and have been running DC for 35 years. Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1025	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: White auto store set 20212

Jeff, Try pages 164 and 165 in Greenberg's American Flyer Factory manual for a drawing and parts listing. Motor parts should not be a problem. The pair also appears in the 20201 set which is also uncatalogued. Although the 21206/21206-1 SF F-9's were made for only one to two years (61-62), many were evidently made and sold for they do show up on tables fairly often for sale. Greenberg price for a pair in E condition is $240. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1026	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Transformer Buzz

Hi John and other S Gaugers Transformer buzz is usually caused by loose plates in the armature or core of the transformer. The AC magnetism induced in the core of the transformer causes the loose plate(s) to vibrate, thereby creating the buzz. These plates are the things the wires are wrapped around inside the transformer--the 120 volt on the primary side, and the 7-15 volt on the other side. Beofre opening the transformer, make sure it is unplugged from the wall outlet! Try tightening the bolts holding the plates together, and see if this reduces or eliminates the buzz. For transformers that use rivets to hold the plates together, try tapping the hollow end of the rivet with a center punch and a hammer to tighten the rivet. Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1027	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: Transformer Buzz

Good points! On the plastic cased small transformers, sometimes just tightening the case screws will do the job, as they clamp down on the plates. On the larger transformers, you can also add small wooden wedges between the coil and the core, often the factory did that! You do have to be careful though, you don't want to disturb the coil insulation. S'incerely, David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1028	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: transformers and DCC

Dear Michael, Our cabooses already have constant lighting, but you could add the gurgling sound to the water cooler. Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. P.S. Looking forward to seeing you in W. Springfield.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1029	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: DC & Smoke Units

Hi S-gaugers, I have finally put down enough track to start running a couple of my childhood American Flyer trains. I have been reading with interest the discussion of dcc. I am considering converting my locomotives to dc. I have one concern. Will my American Flyer steam engines with smoke units still make smoke after conversion to dc. Thanks for any help, Wayne

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1030	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: DC & Smoke Units

Wayne, Judging by the comments here, your engines may smoke! Oh, you mean from the smokestack, where they're supposed to???<BG> Actually, yes there should be no problem, the smoke unit is mearly a resistor creating heat, and it will do that on DC or AC. Now the interesting thing is, what can the DCC people do? Do they add a resistor to the smoke unit, so the constant high voltage doesn't prematurely wipe out the coil or the wick?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1031	From: John Foley	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail

Hi Folks Please go to http://www.3rdrail.com/ Scroll to bottom of opening page and click on the big S button. They don't mention what loco their going to do but it looks like the are doing something. Our e-mails I bet helped them to decide. Thanks folks. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1032	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/10/1999
Subject: Re: 3rd Rail

>From: John Foley <foley164@...> > >Hi Folks > Please go to http://www.3rdrail.com/ Scroll to bottom of >opening >page and click on the big S button. They don't mention what loco their going >to do but it looks like the are doing something. Our e-mails I bet helped >them to decide. Thanks folks. > > John Foley Thanks, John. Excuse my ignorance, but what is a 8001(FP)? If its a steamer, I want one.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1033	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Third Rail

Oh man, if it's a Crusader, there'll go my train budget!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1034	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Smoke Fluid

I was in my local hobby shop yesterday looking for smoke fluid. They had Bachmann and Model Power and one labelled "Live Steam." Does anyone know which one most closely matches AF smoke fluid? TIA Monty --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1035	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Reversing a forward trend

I spent sometime this weekend reviving my 293 to its earlier levels of performance. It used to be one of my best runners. But in the process have encountered a strange pattern and was wondering if anyone has any ideas on what's causing it. After a good cleaning, new brushes, and armature-spacer/spring-pressure tuning ( .020" and .005" spacers, and copper springs, silver springs, doubled-up copper, doubled-up silver, one of each etc. in different combinations), until top speed was achieved, I found forward speed pretty good, but it degraded slowly with use. However, if I immediately ran the engine in reverse for few laps, its forward speed would be better than ever - - for awhile. More specifically it started off with top speed of 112.9 scale mph. After the cleaning/tuning, 129.5 mph. Then with use in fwd, back down to 108.8 mph. But after a few laps in reverse, only 136 mph - - flying! I had a similar thing happen to a 303. Eventually I just bought a replacement used armature and now it runs fine. I can't quite figure out why the running in reverse makes fwd speed come back. Something strikes me that maybe there's something wrong, worn, or super-natural about the interface between the commutator plates and brushes. Any ideas? Any exorcists?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1036	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: DC & Smoke Units

Hi Wayne: The comments made at the DCC Forum at the NASG Worcester convention was that the full applied voltage in DCC systems made the smoke units work really well---with no failures. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1037	From: Dennis Back	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: DC & Smoke Units

On ac or dc smoke.....remember that Gilbert made both ac & dc engines using the same smoke system. :-) Dennis Back Miami, Fl.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1038	From: RobertE613@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Royal Blue Problem

Happy New Year all. My ostensibly complete Royal Blue restoration has developed a snag. After several days of trouble free operation, the linkage has started binding up. Can't seem to figure it out. Any thoughts? Thanks, Robert E.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1039	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue Problem

RobertE613@... wrote: > > From: RobertE613@... > > Happy New Year all. > > My ostensibly complete Royal Blue restoration has developed a snag. After > several days of trouble free operation, the linkage has started binding up. > Can't seem to figure it out. Any thoughts? > > Thanks, > > Robert E. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm One thought. Check for driver quartering having moved to create a bind. It only takes one driver. Try to rotate the drivers with the armature out to see if there's a bind without the armature. Or, easier(?) remove side linkage. If bind goes away with linkage removed it's almost certainly a driver quarter problem. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1040	From: John Foley	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: 3rd Rail

Message: 13 Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:46:11 -0800 From: Daniel Neumayer <Daniel@...> Subject: Re: 3rd Rail >From: John Foley <foley164@...> > >Hi Folks > Please go to http://www.3rdrail.com/ Scroll to bottom of >opening >page and click on the big S button. They don't mention what loco their going >to do but it looks like the are doing something. Our e-mails I bet helped >them to decide. Thanks folks. > > John Foley Thanks, John. Excuse my ignorance, but what is a 8001(FP)? If its a steamer, I want one. Hi Daniel I think that the S001 is a stock #, FP means Factory Painted. It will be a steamer. My guess it will be a small USRA loco John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1041	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: DECALS

A club member is restoring some AF rolling stock and now wants to detail them with DL&W and/or Lackawanna lettering in white. Problem is finding decals or dry transfers for S gauge equipment in this color and line . White alphabet lettering is available but detailing by individual letters takes more time, patience and/or skill than he has at this time. Can I refer him to a good source for decals or dry transfers that may provide what he is looking for. He's tried Microscal w/o luck. Helping club members I remain, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1042	From: John Foley	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: 3rd Rail

>Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 13:11:02 -0800 >To: S-trains >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: Re: 3rd Rail > > >Message: 13 > Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1999 23:46:11 -0800 > From: Daniel Neumayer <Daniel@...> >Subject: Re: 3rd Rail > >>From: John Foley <foley164@...> >> >>Hi Folks >> Please go to http://www.3rdrail.com/ Scroll to bottom of >>opening >>page and click on the big S button. They don't mention what loco their going >>to do but it looks like the are doing something. Our e-mails I bet helped >>them to decide. Thanks folks. >> >> John Foley > > >Thanks, John. Excuse my ignorance, but what is a 8001(FP)? If its a >steamer, I want one. > > Hi Daniel > I think that the S001 is a stock #, FP means Factory Painted. >It will be a steamer. My guess it will be a small USRA loco > > John Foley > > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1043	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: DC conversion

Took the step and added the rectifier to a 283. Wow, it was great. She mooved steadily and ran thru my A-M turnouts WITHOUT balking a bit. Problem, I decidied to use the Momentum feature on the MRC Tech III power pack. The engine started to movethen bam the MRC shorted out. After reset, the MRC showed powere but the engine just sat there looking lonely. Had to leave so didn't have time to see what went wrong. Dose anybody have ideas, I'm hoping it's just the rectifier burnt out. John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1044	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: DECALS

A good source of S scale dry transfers is Clover House, PO Box 62, Sebastopol, California, 95473-0062. They have a great catalog with items other then transfers. They have DL&W transfers for 40' box cars, wood siding, 1940's-1950's and steel 1941-1950's. "S", Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1045	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: S Brass for Sale

Howdy friends Just picked up a few items in mint condition! Some are rare! Take a look - http://www.btsrr.com/btsodd01.htm Thanks, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1046	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Three-Bay Sample Arrives - Orbisonia Progressing

Howdy E.B.T. Friends Here is an update on the E.B.T. stuff going on around here. Three-Bay in Sn3 * Well, it arrived the last day of 1998.... just a full year overdue! But the sample for the three-bay hopper is here and has checked out good. There are still some detail parts to be received and validated, but what we have here is a nice-looking car. Waiting now to see the extended-side version before approving all for production! * Here is a quick shot - http://www.btsrr.com/bts9102.htm Orbisonia Station in S and O * Naturally, we are running a bit behind on this. (Guess I can blame every delay on my daughter's Dec 19th wedding for a while! It was a traumatic experience!!! ;-) ) We did not get the ad in place in the last issue of one of the important magazines, so we held open the reservation period a bit longer. * Then, even after a verbal promise in October, the management of the EBT did NOT provide the drawings of the interior partitions. We did receive a very caustic letter in return from them after a month of waiting patiently. Thanks, mucho! So we are doing a 'best guess' design method. On the good news side..... * Brass etchings are on the way from Korea for the little snow-things on the roof. (No one has given us the real name for these things - we have heard everything from snow-shoes to what-ya-ma-call-its!) But we are getting enough to do the other buildings in Rockhill Furnace that used them! * Lamps are on the way from Tiawan. * We have finished all the design work on the posts for the front and back porch roofs. These were a bit of a nightmare as an unusual size lumber was used on the prototype, but now the model captures the look of the prototype and is easy to assemble. * Windows, doors, etc. are finished. Just have to complete the roofs of the bays and a bit of trim. * Shingles are all cut for both scales, and casting of the white metal details is just about finished. Not much longer now! About all for now! Hope the new year is a good one for you! Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1047	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: DECALS

Glenn Ritter wrote: > > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> (clip) > Problem is finding decals or dry transfers for S gauge equipment in this color > and line . A common lament. This is shedding no light but: Recent posts on rec.models.railroad have discussed an "Alps" printer that is especially effective for printing decals from computer graphics files. It would seem natural that decal producers would be able to convert their existing lettering masters to digitized form and custom print decals to any scale requested. I haven't heard of this kind of thing being available yet but when it becomes available then S modelers will find their lives greatly improved. Art Armstrong

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1048	From: busy-boy	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: dcc developments

What if . . . in addition to all the advantages of dcc you already know about, you could have signal induced speed control (speed limits enforced in blocks) and emergency braking and stopping (impossible to run a red light) as well as a system for tracking a train's location and operating parameters right on your control stand or computer screen? In other words, prototypical operation via dcc. I just visited http://www.zimo.at/ for an eye-opener. Check out their proposal to NMRA, too. Ahhh, it's almost here, the lazy man's way to run a railroad. Now if I can only just live long enough! Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1049	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: DC Smoke

Yes, there is a problem with smoke units on DC engines; there is not as much! DC electricity does not make as much smoke as AC... NOT! :<) At your maximum transformer setting, voltage at the motor (and at the smoke unit) will be reduced by the amount of voltage loss incurred at each bridge rectifier; one at the power supply (assuming you are using an AF transformer), and one at the engine. You can help yourself a little by having extra wires to the smoke unit that bypass the engine bridge diode. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division 2001 - First year of the next millenium ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1050	From: Dennis Back	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Wanted: repro AF track gang

Does anyone have or know of a repro AF track gang for sale? I got back into the hobby last year and missed out on them. There HAS to be one out there somewhere! Any ideas/leads would be appreciated. Dennis Back Miami, Fl.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1051	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert F9s

In a message dated 1/11/99 5:22:32 AM, you wrote: <<Also, does anyone have a better exploded view/parts list of an F-9 than what is in the K-line service manual so when I clear up my Christmas debt:) I can Finally purchase some restoration parts for these Santa Fe twins.>> Good luck finding much of anything in F9 parts!!!!! Very tough! We DID make the F9 gear in brass (not original plastic), but there isn't much else available for them! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1052	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: dcc developments

They also make some neat back-EMF decoders with adjustable output pulse rate. Unfortunately, Zimo isn't too well known in the USA. As far as signal influenced speed control being prototype operation, that depends on the railroad and era. Most of my favorite railroads didn't even have signals other than for train orders. Dave Heine DCC user ----- Original Message ----- From: busy-boy <busy-boy@...> To: <s-trains@onelist.com> Sent: Monday, January 11, 1999 7:15 PM Subject: [S-Trains] dcc developments >From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > >What if . . . >in addition to all the advantages of dcc you already know about, you could >have signal induced speed control (speed limits enforced in blocks) and >emergency braking and stopping (impossible to run a red light) as well as a >system for tracking a train's location and operating parameters right on >your control stand or computer screen? In other words, prototypical >operation via dcc. > >I just visited http://www.zimo.at/ for an eye-opener. Check out their >proposal to NMRA, too. > >Ahhh, it's almost here, the lazy man's way to run a railroad. Now if I can >only just live long enough! > >Enjoy, >Chris Zizzo > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1053	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: address books

Hello all, and the top of the New Year to everyone Does any kind soul have any of the following lists already set up for Netscape PROTO 64 SIG list Modern SIG list please anyone,Ferris Bueler,anyone................:-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1054	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/11/1999
Subject: Re: DC Smoke

mhrreast@... wrote: > > From: mhrreast@... > > Yes, there is a problem with smoke units on DC engines; > there is not as much! > DC electricity does not make as much smoke as AC... > NOT! :<) > At your maximum transformer setting, voltage at the motor > (and at the smoke unit) will be reduced by the amount of > voltage loss incurred at each bridge rectifier; one at the > power supply (assuming you are using an AF transformer), > and one at the engine. You can help yourself a little by > having extra wires to the smoke unit that bypass the > engine bridge diode. > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > 2001 - First year of the next millenium > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm Ted, this is one place where a large (say 2000mfd) capacitor on the transformer output willl restore some of the apparent voltage by filling in the DC spikes. Also, it relates to the problem we discussed vis-a-vis voltage drops thru some rectifiers. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1055	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: reefer model

Suppose there were an eight-hatch ised reefer avilable in S at about $40 per copy. Choice of Canadian National or Grand Trunk Western in red on gray, or undecorated. Three numbers.How many do you think you might buy? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1056	From: John Foley	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: New S Scale Model From 3rd Rail

>Delivered-To: foley164@... >X-Sender: sdmann@... >X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) >Date: Tue, 12 Jan 1999 08:15:37 -0800 >To: John Foley <foley164@...> >From: Scott Mann <sdmann@...> >Subject: New S Scale Model From 3rd Rail Hi Folks Good news 3rd rail is getting into S gauge. Check it out below. You can get more info at http://www.3rdrail.com/ John Foley > >Dear John, > >>From the email responses we have decided to go with this: > >USRA Mikado 2-8-2 Heavy and Light Versions > >Available in HiRail AC or DC and Scale. > >Blind drivers in Hi Rail for sharp radius operation. We will try to get it >down to 27" radius, but no promises yet. > >Models will be painted, not lettered. > >All brass construction, as expected. > >Priced under $1000, maybe lower depending on order level. Available before >the end of this year. > >Spread the word and have people email me their orders, need name, address, >phone and Heavy or Light, HR AC or DC or Scale. > >Best Regards, > >Scott Mann > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1057	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Re: New S Scale Model From 3rd Rail

27" radius for HiRail. I have some 24" radius curves. I wonder how many HiRailers have layouts with nothing below 27". -Daniel >From: John Foley <foley164@...> > > Hi Folks > Good news 3rd rail is getting into S gauge. Check it out below. > You can get more info at http://www.3rdrail.com/ > John Foley > > >> >>Dear John, >> >>>From the email responses we have decided to go with this: >> >>USRA Mikado 2-8-2 Heavy and Light Versions >> >>Available in HiRail AC or DC and Scale. >> >>Blind drivers in Hi Rail for sharp radius operation. We will try to get it >>down to 27" radius, but no promises yet. >> >>Models will be painted, not lettered. >> >>All brass construction, as expected. >> >>Priced under $1000, maybe lower depending on order level. Available before >>the end of this year. >> >>Spread the word and have people email me their orders, need name, address, >>phone and Heavy or Light, HR AC or DC or Scale. >> >>Best Regards, >> >>Scott Mann >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1058	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: smoke fluid

I prefer Lehigh Valley Train Service's Live Steam in the brown glass bottle with the dropper and white and orange label marked "S-gauge". I tried Super Smoke and found it to be too thick/over-formulated. Live Steam works well (assuming your wick and coil are OK).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1059	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Flyer Curves vs...

Greetings, I recall a recent message about the diameter of a curve so I measured my little Pikemaster layout. 31 inches from outside rail to outside rail in a curve Lionel 027 is actually smaller than 27 inches. Flyer standard around 39 inches amazing what a guy can do over his lunch hour:) I have no idea about gargraves Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1060	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Does anyone have a way to prevent the diecast trailing truck on K-5's and 293's from derailing when the loco is going in reverse? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1061	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

With respect to the derailing rear truck in reverse, I had this problem big time on my AF 336 Northern, when reversing through a switch from the turnout side. I solved it by extending the tang that holds the coupler to the engine. The new tang is fabricated from a scrap of metal. It's about 0.5 inches long. I also added some weight to the truck using lead. I also back up slowly, and I pulse the turnout as the engine is going through to ensure the frog doesn't get pushed away by the bulk of the truck. I'd like to heat what others have to say about this, as it's anannoying problem. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1062	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Re: reefer model

In message <Pine.A41.3.95.990112065229.24168A-100000@... n.ab.ca>, sigma@... writes >From: sigma@... > >Suppose there were an eight-hatch ised reefer avilable in S at about $40 >per copy. Choice of Canadian National or Grand Trunk Western in red on >gray, or undecorated. Three numbers.How many do you think you might >buy? Joe Pereira > email: sigma@... three or four, as my steam era modelling is now SOO Line, they really should be CP, did CP have similar reefers? -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1063	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail USRA 2-8-2s

I've always said I would support a small USRA engine project in brass. Now 3rd Rail have announced a their proposals for a USRA light 2-8-2 and an heavy 2-8-2. Its good news and a project that needs our support. However I do wish I had done my research a bit better!! The USRA light 2-8-2 was not owned by the SOO line or C&NW, the two principal RRs I model in the steam era. The Omaha Road did own some heavy USRA 2-8-2s but the engine is perhaps a bit too hunky for the sort of RR I have in mind to model. Needless to say the C&NW operated with USRA 0-6-0s & 0-8-0s! Thus I'm seeking excuses to have a light 2-8-2 in Northern Wisconsin in 1954 (my steam modeliing period). The Duluth, South Shore and Atlantic had 2-8-2s but I can't find any information about them. My shortline the Wisconsin & Michigan Northern is only going to have a 2-8-0s for power (Southwind D&RGW 2-8-0s....which I hope will still be made). Therefore if you know of any SOO/C&NW engine that would convert easily and painlessly from the USRA light 2-8-2 - or can think up an excuse for me to run same please let me know!! -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1064	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: No Subject

<<< They had Bachmann and Model Power and one labelled "Live Steam." Does anyone know which one most closely matches AF smoke fluid? >>> Live Steam has 8 "flavors"....one of which is "S". Personally, I prefer LS to Supersmoke, for multiple reasons, BUT the manufacturer is not delivering it to dealers, and it has become very difficult to obtain. As a result, we are forced to return to selling Supersmoke. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1065	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Heavy and light mikes

You know 3rd Rail is to be commended for there interest in S.....but will soon come to hair pulling trying to please everyone......years ago Westside tried to do a USRA light mike under $300 and pushed hard to get 200 orders. Claude Wade had a light and heavy mike kits or custom built. Omnicron offered the heavy and light pacifics and mikes, ya had to be quick...River Rasin brought in the heavy NYC mike. American Models has hinted that there boiler was also designed to take a 2-8-2 frame........each time the effort went out for a mike project....the folks that pushed got it done....thus over the last 30 years a great number of customers have been appeased....Now this time the price is about $1000 and the simple request is for AC, DC, scale and hirail......Forget your Pikemaster track on this one folks, even your AF track, and you wonder why the trailing truck derails. Even with blind driver in the 2 and 3 spot you are going to see 3 or 4 inches of rail beside the loco in a curve sorta like what ya see with an AF passenger car in a curve. In scale 36 or 48 inch radius may be tight, work hard on a #6 switch lay in 8's or 10's the prototype was dealing with 18 to 26s.......You watch you get what you ask for and 3rd Rail makes it and it gets torn apart in a review they won't bother to offer a second locomotive. For the Flyer folks lay this loco over in a curve and see who get all the blame.....zip down an AF trestle with a curve at the bottom, better get a net or feather pillows. Maybe if you can get them to switch to neoprene you can hold out for a 4-8-8-4 or a Virginian 2-10-10-10-2 for AF track. Gale Hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1066	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: radius of curves

It was written: (regarding a proposed 2-8-2 loco) >> Blind drivers in Hi Rail for sharp radius operation. We will try to get it >> down to 27" radius, but no promises yet. > > 27" radius for HiRail. I have some 24" radius curves. I wonder how many > HiRailers have layouts with nothing below 27". > Here is the stone in the stew: Hi-rail and scale will always be separated (and perhaps defined) primarily by their minimum radius. We know that in HO a 24 inch radius is considered about the minimum for anyone who wants to run eight-drivered steam locos. For S gaugers to run 24 inch is comparable to HO running 18 inch. This is a conventional minimum in HO but will not accept big steam engines and sometimes even three-axle diesels have trouble. To make a 2-8-2 loco that will run radii below 24" in HO (or 36" in S) requires severe alteration to wheels and clearances around the mechanism and pilot and trailing trucks - this affects the appearance. This makes it diffucult for hi-railers and scale people to combine their buying power to encourage manufacturers to build S locos - they can't satisfy both hi-rail and scale just by changing wheels and couplers. So what's the solution? "I don't know - it's a mystery." Art Armstrong aarmstrong@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1067	From: Russell McClellan	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: AF Circus

I have a #353 Circus Engine which was "modified" by the original owner. He added blue highlighting to both the boiler and tender. It is one of the best preserved circus engines I have ever seen, aside from the blue. Does anyone have an idea how I can attempt to remove the blue paint and leave the original red paint, or, is all hope lost? You can see some pictures of the problem at http://home.earthlink.net/~russellmcc . A more solveable problem may be the aquisition of an ORIGINAL blue cage side for one of my circus cages. Does anyone have a broken circus cage with one intact blue side? I'll be happy to purchase it from you. I'm afraid my little red zebra may escape if I can't find a cage side soon! Thanks in advance for any advice! Russell russellmcc@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1068	From: Robert Sharkey	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Refinishing Grungy AF Equipment

I've picked up a few old, beat-up pieces and accessories over the last few years and I'm always undecided if I should refurbish them or leave them as original. A fix-up / repaint destroys the original value but it can make a rusty piece look like new, if done properly. So...is such a drastic step ever justified or is it better to leave the piece "original", warts and all? All comments welcome.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1069	From: JSBMLB@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Good message

Gale, Your message was excellent and much more delecate than I feel! Most people on this message board are full of shit! They complain about everything! Want it all! and buy nothing! I will be buying a Micado! If you want S gauge then stop running your mouth and support the manufacturers! If you can't afford it thats certainly understandable because IT AIN'T CHEAP! But stop complaining! Buy some HO!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1070	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: Re: AF Circus

In a message dated 1/13/99 12:01:56 AM !!!First Boot!!!, russellmcc@... writes: << http://home.earthlink.net/~russellmcc >> Your in a pickle Russell. even if you can get the blue paint off, there was lettering along the side of the loco that is most surely to get destroyed if the blue is removed. Best bet is to try to determine if they used hobby paints like Testors and use their thinner very gently and try to rub the blue off. Polly-S makes a paint remover that works in thin layers without harming plastics, this might work if all else fails. Worse/best case is the original paint is intact with repro lettering on the sides of the loco. Good luck...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1071	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: AF Circus

If you lucked out and the person used a latex type paint, you may be able to remove it using IPA (isopropyl alcohol as in rubbing alcohol). However I tried removing some excess sticker adhesive using IPA, and it started to take the paint of an AF boxcar. Whatever you try, start in the least noticeable spot on the engine/tender and do a small area until you can see what the results will be. Good luck. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1072	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/12/1999
Subject: restoration or not

rjsharke@... 12Jan99 Robert, It seems that restoration hits a nerve in the AF or Lionel community, with one large exception that of the old Standard Gauge equipment, and when done is a masterful manner and the proper transfers are used can approach somewhat of a reasonable good to excellent. In S and O it seems to plunge prices to below the poor price if a coat of paint is added or what could you get for a Missouri Pacific AF boxcar with a new gray enamel roof and maybe a new red MP buzzsaw decal on one side to replace a damaged one...it doesn't say restore it says REPAINT...Would you want a silver Silver Streak or a fair Chrome one? This still seems to be up to the individual and how they want to display it or use it. As an operator it might not make much difference if it is touched up and looks nice, but a collector wants to constantly upgrade the collection and trade up when he can and end up if possible with mint or new AF equipment. The flip side of this that makes little sense in the above light, is the area of Farm Toys. You can restore a tractor to new condition and approach 90 -95% of the new price.....no questions ask other than everyone understand it has been repaired and repainted. It won't draw the new in box price but it will sure get around toward the new price. If you go to trucks, it is like trains don't touch if you want the most money for your item. A sandpile Winross will draw much more than a fresh coat of paint added by an individual. Go figure...... Gale Hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1073	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: SHS SW-9 and Flat on sale

Hi all, I just got a sale catalog from Terminal Hobby Shop, aka Walthers. To my surprise they actually had two S scale items listed, the SHS SW-9 for $159.98 and their Standard Flat Car for $29.98. There was also a 15% off coupon for Ertl stuff. It looks like some hobby stores are participating in the sale, or order direct: 1-800-487-2467. kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1074	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Roof Walks

SOS....SOS....does anyone out there know in what year roof walks were banned by the Federal Railroad Administration? Thanks, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N .C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1075	From: michael prell	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Ordering Parts Confusion

I'm not sure if you're going to receive this posting, but I figure that it's worth a try. Anyway, as to my confusion. I'm attempting to "restore" an American Flyer 307 that i bought about ten years ago and used parts from to "restore" another engine that I had from my younger days. The initial operation was a success, but now comes the problem. I have the K-line Big Heavy Black Book for AF. Nice book. Shows a lot of great stuff. I have, however, discovered that the parts numbers, (i.e. XA10364-don't look for this #. I'm just using it as an example) don't always match the parts numbers that parts dealers use, although they may use the XA, or PA prefix codes. Is there a cross reference listing that clears up this sort of confusion, or am I doing something wrong? Please help. I'd really like to get that old 1957 Chevy Flyer going again. (1957 is stamped on the inside of the boiler. Thanks, folks. P.S. Mr. York. You're doing the hobby a great service. Thanks!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1076	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: radius of curves

In message <369BDB3C.3D06@...>, Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> writes >From: Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> > >It was written: (regarding a proposed 2-8-2 loco) > >>> Blind drivers in Hi Rail for sharp radius operation. We will try to get it >>> down to 27" radius, but no promises yet. >> >> 27" radius for HiRail. I have some 24" radius curves. I wonder how many >> HiRailers have layouts with nothing below 27". >> > >Here is the stone in the stew: Hi-rail and scale will always be >separated (and perhaps defined) primarily by their minimum radius. > >We know that in HO a 24 inch radius is considered about the minimum for >anyone who wants to run eight-drivered steam locos. > >For S gaugers to run 24 inch is comparable to HO running 18 inch. This >is a conventional minimum in HO but will not accept big steam engines >and sometimes even three-axle diesels have trouble. > >To make a 2-8-2 loco that will run radii below 24" in HO (or 36" in S) >requires severe alteration to wheels and clearances around the mechanism >and pilot and trailing trucks - this affects the appearance. > >This makes it diffucult for hi-railers and scale people to combine their >buying power to encourage manufacturers to build S locos - they can't >satisfy both hi-rail and scale just by changing wheels and couplers. > >So what's the solution? >"I don't know - it's a mystery." > Well argued Art, but the solution is simple - the AF crowd have to get real - that means you Daniel!! I'd be pleased if the mike went round a 36 inch radius anything less would be a bonus. -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1077	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: 3rd Rail USRA 2-8-2s

In message <369BBE6C.B195008D@...>, Keith Thompson <kthompso@...> writes >Hi Kelvin, > >Have you ever thought of modeling Madison? The IC had a branch that ran >to the UW campus from Freeport Ill. It also had the only rail tunnel in >Wisconsin and the IC often used it's heavy 2-8-2s on the line in steam >days. The yard by the campus also included interchanges with the >Milwaukee Road and the C&NW. Unfortunately, no SOO. But, that's not to >stop you from using a little modelers license. I've photographed the ex IC Belleville and Monroe stations in 95 and quite a lot around Madison. Jim Boyd's IC Monday Morning Rails is a favorite book and mention a few turns up the branch. However I really sold on modelling in the Northwoods - trees are such a simple scenic break. Plus I like the freight car traffic that the paper and lumber industries generated. > >The other place you might want to think about is around the >Duluth/Superior area with the Great Northern and its heavy 2-8-2s and >the occasional leased CB&Q 2-8-2s. I don't know the specifics of the GN >locomotives but I know the CB&Q 2-8-2s were used by the GN on its ore >docks. Another thought is modeling a DM&IR 0-8-2 switcher for an ore >dock. I will be going through part of this area in my pre NASG convention railfan tour in July - However I will mainly be in the Rhinelander - Iron Mountain area which is more to the east on the border between Wisconsin & Michigan.One of the things I will be investigating is the ammount of iron ore traffic this area generated, certainly the real Wisconsin & Michigan saw very little ore traffic in its later life - most of its lifeblood traffic was ferry traffic from the AA at Manitowoc >Again these are just ideas to help you part with your money. -- >Keith Thompson Your kindness with these ideas obviously know no limits :-) Best Regards -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1078	From: John Foley	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Brass Modern Diesels

Hi Folks What Modern Diesels do we need in S? Please let me have your ideas. Example GE-9 cab detail, painted, Sound, and lighted. What would you spend? What options would you like. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1079	From: Tomlinson, John D	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: radius of curves

While I agree that the Flyer folk should 'get real', I think we are missing something. The manufacturers supporting 'O' e.g. MTH, etc. are able to create locomotives that operate on curves that approach Flyer (O-42) and smaller. Obviously if they can 'bend' a locomotive in that scale the same can certainly be done for S. And yes, it would involve some compromises on the drivers and their spacing. However, which would you rather have: a. A nice, new 'near scale' 2-8-2 on your layout in a couple of years (at a mostly reasonable price)? or b. To still be having this conversation two years from now? John D. Tomlinson > Configuration Mgmt Deployment - CA-Endevor Support > 6-6M67 M/S: 6F-62 Bldg: 7-311.3 > Ph: (425) 477-4589 Pgr: (206) 986-5329 Hotline: (206) 655-HELP > Boeing Web page: http://www-ads.ca.boeing.com/cmd > > > ---------- > From: kelvin white[SMTP:kelvin@...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 12:10 PM > To: Arthur Armstrong > Cc: S-trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: radius of curves > > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> > > In message <369BDB3C.3D06@...>, Arthur Armstrong > <aarmstro@...> writes > >From: Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> > > > >It was written: (regarding a proposed 2-8-2 loco) > > > >>> Blind drivers in Hi Rail for sharp radius operation. We will try to get it > >>> down to 27" radius, but no promises yet. > >> > >> 27" radius for HiRail. I have some 24" radius curves. I wonder how many > >> HiRailers have layouts with nothing below 27". > >> > > > >Here is the stone in the stew: Hi-rail and scale will always be > >separated (and perhaps defined) primarily by their minimum radius. > > > >We know that in HO a 24 inch radius is considered about the minimum for > >anyone who wants to run eight-drivered steam locos. > > > >For S gaugers to run 24 inch is comparable to HO running 18 inch. This > >is a conventional minimum in HO but will not accept big steam engines > >and sometimes even three-axle diesels have trouble. > > > >To make a 2-8-2 loco that will run radii below 24" in HO (or 36" in S) > >requires severe alteration to wheels and clearances around the mechanism > >and pilot and trailing trucks - this affects the appearance. > > > >This makes it diffucult for hi-railers and scale people to combine their > >buying power to encourage manufacturers to build S locos - they can't > >satisfy both hi-rail and scale just by changing wheels and couplers. > > > >So what's the solution? > >"I don't know - it's a mystery." > > > Well argued Art, but the solution is simple - the AF crowd have to get > real - that means you Daniel!! I'd be pleased if the mike went round a > 36 inch radius anything less would be a bonus. > -- > kelvin white > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1080	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: what we need in Diesels

Morning all (it is here) John raises the question of what would be nice diesel wise for the modern era. The context was "brass". Two points here...firstly it is highly unlikely that I will ever purchase a brass "s'" loco, unless they're falling off the back of a truck (and who wants damaged locos!!) as the price is just so far out of my league as to be humurous...our Aussie dollar buys approx 64c(US) presently. That means items like a $799 SD9 or a sub $1000 dollar newie equate to roughly $1250 and $1550 repectively(in my money) and that aint going to happen. Someone could bring out my fave...a SD40T-2 and I would but look upon it whistfully ...but I doubt it would grace my rails (short of a divorce). Brass is nice,and will certainly fill the holes for some lucky people's roster, but I feel for the majority (and please correct me here if I'm alone) the answer must lay else where. I'm thinking as far as RTR goes ...plastic...as soon as budget allows I'll pick up a SW9 ( yeah and that sale at walthers is real tempting, very tempting...tooo tempting) ...what I'm trying to say is I for one where ability allows will support AM and SHS etc in any endeavour to bring more choice to the market (providing it is something I can use, I'm not buying for the sake of buying, not until I win lotto). point two, following on from previous....wih list....hmm lets see modern diesel, GE...dash 9...multi appeal...lots of them everywhere...even the kids would recognise it, and the spouse..under a Christmas tree....HELLO...HELLO..surely there must be a market for everyone...FLYER fans, HI-Rail, Scale even dare I say the word...TOY.....for...... A GE Genesis ...and if Don, Ron or any one is working on this and keeping quite (hey I can keep a secret) just let me know where to send the deposit check!!!!..over to you ...all from down here to up there :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1081	From: Tomlinson, John D	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: what we need in Diesels

mornin' Richard, This is a different John. However, I share your feelings exactly -- even if my dollar is 1::1 compared to yours! I would also add another dimension to brass -- it's too limited. For example try to buy a 'brass' (almost anything) locomotive from two to three years back. They simply aren't available! Now plastic that's another story. You want an AM FP-9 in a roadname and chances are if AM doesn't have them in stock somebody does --OR -- AM will be making some more at some point in time. Same is true with SHS. Not so with brass. As far as detail are concerned has anybody been reading Model Railroader lately? Our HO 'friends' do all sorts of things to 'detail up' their plastic diesels and although we may not have as many detail parts as they do (do we ever??!!), we certainly have some detail parts available. John D. Tomlinson > Configuration Mgmt Deployment - CA-Endevor Support > 6-6M67 M/S: 6F-62 Bldg: 7-311.3 > Ph: (425) 477-4589 Pgr: (206) 986-5329 Hotline: (206) 655-HELP > Boeing Web page: http://www-ads.ca.boeing.com/cmd > > > ---------- > From: Richard Snook[SMTP:richard.snook@...] > Reply To: richard.snook@... > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 3:14 PM > To: S-Trains > Cc: proto64 > Subject: [S-Trains] what we need in Diesels > > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > > Morning all (it is here) > > John raises the question of what would be nice diesel wise for the modern era. > The context was "brass". > > Two points here...firstly it is highly unlikely that I will ever purchase a > brass "s'" loco, unless they're falling off the back of a truck (and who wants > damaged locos!!) as the price is just so far out of my league as to be > humurous...our Aussie dollar buys approx 64c(US) presently. That means items > like a $799 SD9 or a sub $1000 dollar newie equate to roughly $1250 and $1550 > repectively(in my money) and that aint going to happen. Someone could bring out > my fave...a SD40T-2 and I would but look upon it whistfully ...but I doubt it > would grace my rails (short of a divorce). Brass is nice,and will certainly fill > the holes for some lucky people's roster, but I feel for the majority (and > please correct me here if I'm alone) the answer must lay else where. I'm > thinking as far as RTR goes ...plastic...as soon as budget allows I'll pick up a > SW9 ( yeah and that sale at walthers is real tempting, very tempting...tooo > tempting) ...what I'm trying to say is I for one where ability allows will > support AM and SHS etc in any endeavour to bring more choice to the market > (providing it is something I can use, I'm not buying for the sake of buying, not > until I win lotto). > > point two, following on from previous....wih list....hmm lets see modern > diesel, GE...dash 9...multi appeal...lots of them everywhere...even the kids > would recognise it, and the spouse..under a Christmas > tree....HELLO...HELLO..surely there must be a market for everyone...FLYER fans, > HI-Rail, Scale even dare I say the word...TOY.....for...... A GE Genesis ...and > if Don, Ron or any one is working on this and keeping quite (hey I can keep a > secret) just let me know where to send the deposit check!!!!..over to you ...all > > from down here to up there :-)) Richard > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1082	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: radius of curves

In a message dated 1/13/99 3:43:27 PM, kelvin@... wrote: <<Well argued Art, but the solution is simple - the AF crowd have to get real - that means you Daniel!! I'd be pleased if the mike went round a 36 inch radius anything less would be a bonus. -- kelvin white>> Gentlemen, gentlemen! To make a Mikado economcally viable AND have a big impact on the S gauge hobby, a version should be made available that can negotiate 19 inch radius Gilbert AF curves and switches. A majority of S gauge layouts are based on tinplate hi-rail Gilbert production. This is also where most of the money is. SHS and AM have caught on to this central fact in spite of their 'scale' roots. A Mikado is not that long an engine, and one built with blind drivers should easily accomplish this feat running in both forward and reverse (e.g., '336'). Thanks for listening, and have fun! RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1083	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: radius of curves

>> >Well argued Art, but the solution is simple - the AF crowd have to get >real - that means you Daniel!! I'd be pleased if the mike went round a >36 inch radius anything less would be a bonus. >-- >kelvin white > This is a solution? Not for someone like me who lives in an apartment! -Daniel

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1084	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: re SW9...smitten

Okay The walthers pages are still displaying the $199.95 pricing...I,ve emailed for clarification (yet to get reply)...anyone know of an outlet selling these beasts ??(they have to take visa) Idon't think the Siskiyou line used SW-9s (happy to be corrected here) but they will soon!! Thanks :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1085	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Modern Bus

Here's one for Modern Modellers I was at BIG W (mid price variety chain,part of Woolworths here) the other day and picked upa (wife wouldn't let me grab two) BUS it is fairly modern in its appearance, brandname is WELLEY, made in China (where else), it is a Mercedes Benz 0 303 Coach. It measures approx 7.25" long 1.55"wide by 2.2" high...no scale is indicated, however the dimensions are very close to published data for the New 102D3 Coach by MCI (real stuff)...Amazing what you can find on the web...still has any one got dimensions for standard wheelbase Schoolbus (partridge Family variety) Its diecast, detail pretty good, it (and this is best part) can be disassembled to facilitate painting. The window insert is either blueish or grayish depending on scheme purchase. I had choice of two. I took the Express Tours as it is basically White with graphics representing a San Francisco Tour operation (damn shame!!) Witha bit of Road Grime and recoloured Windows my passengers have transport from the Station (spose I better finish building it) best of all the PRICE $4.99 (Aus) about $3.25 your money :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1086	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: Blind Drivers/wide tires

After some of the discussion about tight Gilbert curves, thought I might add that both blind drivers, and wide tired drivers were used in prototypical practice, because of tight curves. True, mostly this was lumber railroad practice, but I've heard about it on regular freight roads too. I would have to agree about market arena, there are too many of us 'tight' wads out here, loco needs to be able to negotiate our curves. It's also true that brass is way out of my league!! Although I do have one brass HO loco--but it 'fell off the truck' into my hands & its an SP GS4, my favorite steam passenger loco in real life. Falling off the truck??? Well, it was a Church rummage sale, I didn't even attend, but this thing didn't sell the whole day & they were going to throw it out when one of them thought I might like it, so brought it by my house and sold it to me for $5. Didn't realize it was brass until I started cleaning it! (I wouldn't have even bought it if it hadn't been the GS!) So now it sits collecting dust on top of the piano--the only HO track I've had lately is for the 3-1/2' streetcar line! But all this interest in producing neat stuff for S just proves my claim..... S'incerely, David Dewey Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1087	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: SALE

>>Hi all, I just got a sale catalog from Terminal Hobby Shop, aka Walthers. To my surprise they actually had two S scale items listed, the SHS SW-9 for $159.98 and their Standard Flat Car for $29.98. There was also a 15% off coupon for Ertl stuff. It looks like some hobby stores are participating in the sale, or order direct: 1-800-487-2467. kbt<< ============================= YES, page 2 says "Place your order with a dealer first." "If there is not a dealer participating in your area, order direct." Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division 2001 - First year of the next millenium ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1088	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Modern Diesels

John Foley wrote: > > From: John Foley <foley164@...> > > Hi Folks > What Modern Diesels do we need in S? Please let me have your ideas. > Example GE-9 cab detail, painted, Sound, and lighted. What would you spend? > What options would you like. > > John Foley > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm I'd like to see U-boats, SD40's, SD60's and later. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1089	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: 2-8-2

A 2-8-2 to negotiate Flyer radius us no big deal. Witness the AF Northern and the Nickel Plate switcher. The 2-8-2 is the same size as a 4-6-2 which AF made zillions of (and AM has made a few too). Drivers could be juggled to smaller tread dia. in the hirail version to accomodate the larger hirail flanges. Blind drivers do not hang over the rails excesasively. Witness again the AF Northern which has larger drivers and a longer driver wheelbase than a typical 2-8-2. By the way, I would welcome a 2-8-0 as much as a 2-8-2 to create the small steam freight engine that AC never made. I won't buy a $999 brass engine now that I've retired so it must be plastic or diecast. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1090	From: Allen Evans	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: Diesels and Dust

Richard, you are absolutely right. Proto Quality need not be hand made by elves at the North Pole using chisels, saws and hammers. The modern technology is just now becoming available to produce medium cost high-definition products using space age resins and molding techniques. This technology is presently being used by a certain HO manufacturer, Athearn, who just announced the production of their Genesis Series SD-70. Their advertisement is found in the JAN 99 issue of Model Railroading Magazine, page 11. In the ad, the SD-70 model is sitting next to the real SD-70 using super-imposed photography. Most Impressive. The caption reads: "Any Closer To Real and You'll Get Diesel On The Rug". hehe Until this technology comes to S, I will remain budget driven and faithful to the preeminent manufacturers who are offering V+ products for those who delight in the sheer joy that model railroading brings. I say again, we are at the threshold of a revolution in manufacturing which will level the entire industry. When that time comes, only two kinds of businesses will remain. Allen Evans Covington, LA =============================================== Richard Snook wrote: > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > > Morning all (it is here) > > John raises the question of what would be nice diesel wise for the modern era. > The context was "brass". > > Two points here...firstly it is highly unlikely that I will ever purchase a > brass "s'" loco, unless they're falling off the back of a truck (and who wants > damaged locos!!) as the price is just so far out of my league as to be > humurous...our Aussie dollar buys approx 64c(US) presently. That means items > like a $799 SD9 or a sub $1000 dollar newie equate to roughly $1250 and $1550 > repectively(in my money) and that aint going to happen. Someone could bring out > my fave...a SD40T-2 and I would but look upon it whistfully ...but I doubt it > would grace my rails (short of a divorce). Brass is nice,and will certainly fill > the holes for some lucky people's roster, but I feel for the majority (and > please correct me here if I'm alone) the answer must lay else where. I'm > thinking as far as RTR goes ...plastic...as soon as budget allows I'll pick up a > SW9 ( yeah and that sale at walthers is real tempting, very tempting...tooo > tempting) ...what I'm trying to say is I for one where ability allows will > support AM and SHS etc in any endeavour to bring more choice to the market > (providing it is something I can use, I'm not buying for the sake of buying, not > until I win lotto). > > point two, following on from previous....wih list....hmm lets see modern > diesel, GE...dash 9...multi appeal...lots of them everywhere...even the kids > would recognise it, and the spouse..under a Christmas > tree....HELLO...HELLO..surely there must be a market for everyone...FLYER fans, > HI-Rail, Scale even dare I say the word...TOY.....for...... A GE Genesis ...and > if Don, Ron or any one is working on this and keeping quite (hey I can keep a > secret) just let me know where to send the deposit check!!!!..over to you ...all > > from down here to up there :-)) Richard > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Proto 64 web site is at: http://www.wolfenet.com/~kthompso/Proto64

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1091	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: AF part #s

Don't sweat the part #s.........just tell us, or whatever dealer you're using, what you need for what engine (or other AF item)..........with VERY few exceptions, we'll know the part! Doug We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 50-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 20+ page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. Each catalog is $2, or a set of all three catalogs is $5, postpaid. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1092	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: [Fwd: [S-Trains] 2-8-2]

Chuck: The justification that an AF 336 could negotiate Flyer track is open to discussion. I have always understood that this engine had a problem in the curves and, as such, AF suggested placing a piece of half-straight between each curved section in an attempt to "ease" the transition. What experiences have you AF Northern owners/operators had with this engine? Truly, Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1093	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Refinishing Grungy AF Equipment]

Message-ID: <369D5228.794E@...> Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:10:49 -0600 From: Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rjsharke@... Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Refinishing Grungy AF Equipment References: <369BE94C.707C@...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Robert: The answer would have to be "it depends." Since you purchased these items in their current condition, I assume that you did so because you wanted them on your layout. If you don't plan to re-sell them, strip them of existing paint and re-paint them. They'll look "like new" on your layout. Dry transfer and decal lettering is available from several sources for engines, rolling stock, and accessories. The important thing is, are all the pieces, parts with them and do the accessories work? Again, replacement parts can be located rather easily. Clean 'em up, re-paint and re-letter as needed, and enjoy. You can take a certain amount of pride in rescuing a "basket case".

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1094	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Sounds like old times

Ah, this discussion of steam locomotives and diesil locomotives, who will buy what and for how much..... It reminds me of many a late evening sitting in a hotel room at the NASG convention or S Fest debating what S needs. Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I have my deposit in for an F-3 because I think a ready to run diesil with state of the art electronic control and sound at the quality of the SW-9 is pretty fantastic. I have added many a detail part to an Enhorning/Wabash/Omnicon F unit and know that they can look pretty good but I am betting that the SHS units will run better and pull more (and look as good or better). I have built a Beveridge brass GP-35, added detail but it needed the American Models power to make it run well and the American Models unit had better detail relief. I realize that we all know this but S is better off that it has been in about 40 years. Lets dream for better but leave "bitter debate" for the floor of the Senate. Vote for your idea with deposits or purchases from the manufacturer of your choice remembering that we are all in this for fun. No, Mr. President, we don't need your help in defining fun. Oh, I forgot..... What we really need is an SD-45, complete with sound and lights capable of going around flyer curves, Yep, that's the ticket! 8-) Ken Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1095	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Bus Photo

With respect ot the mention earlier of a modern bus, I have scanned it , in a manner and have a JPEG for any one who wants a peek. eMail me direct and I'LL send it to you. :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1096	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] 2-8-2]

>Chuck: >The justification that an AF 336 could negotiate Flyer track is open to >discussion. I have always understood that this engine had a problem in >the curves and, as such, AF suggested placing a piece of half-straight >between each curved section in an attempt to "ease" the transition. >What experiences have you AF Northern owners/operators had with this >engine? > >Truly, >Bruce > I have a 336 that has never seen AF track, but it does fine on American Models flex track at 24" radius and AM turnouts. -Daniel

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1097	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] 2-8-2]

The 336 will run fine on AF track, provided the track is laid accurately and the wheels are properly gauged. You can't run it at ' L speed', though! Also, if you've never run one, you'll probably have to move trackside stuff farther away, it *does* have a lot of overhang! It is also hard on track laid on AF type trestles, the track needs more support than just at each joint. Remember, even though it's heavier, it's still running on 4 wheels, just like all the other AF steamers--the blind drivers are usually smaller in dia. than the flanged ones! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1098	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Memory Lane

1) I enjoyed Ken Z's letter. I remember a late night convention discussion where one of the participants said "We don't need plastic cabooses. We can get anything we want in brass." Different people have different needs! My approach is to buy anything that comes fairly close to what I want/need. If something better comes along later, I can usually sell the other one. 2) Busses. Don't forget to look for the 70's-'90's appearing Internationl school bus. I see it quite regularly at train shows, airport gift shops, and toy stores. 3) Somebody asked about converting HO decals to S using the ALPS printer. See following message from a few weeks ago. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division 2001 - First year of the next millenium --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 10:41:45 -0700 From: "Tuson, Earl" <earl.tuson@...> Subject: FW: New S decal source This was posted to the FCL. Thought people would be interested. > Date: Mon, 28 Dec 1998 16:46:29 -0600 > From: Tom Stolte <mlw636@...> > Subject: [FC] Custom Decals > > Hello All, > > Today I updated my web page. Please check it out. If anyone is looking > for custom sets of my decals in other scales, I can make them now. > > Looking for some of my sets to be made in other scales, like N, S, O > scale. Now it can be done with the ALPS printer. All you have to do is > select a HO set from my line of decals. No min. order. Please give me 1 > month for turn around time. > > Prices: N Scale: $3.00 each, S Scale : $6.00 each, O Scale: $9.00 each. > Plus $1.75 for P&H > > Tom Stolte > Oddballs Decals > 26550 227th Street > McLouth, Kansas 66054 > > World's smallest producer of Model RR Decals > > mailto:mlw636@... > Visit my web sites at: > Oddballs Decals > http://members.xoom.com/mopac2/oddballs.htm > --------- End forwarded message ---------- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1099	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Vehicle Size

What size is a bus? For most vehicles, width is the easiest dimension to check to find out if it is S. 8 foot wide for most trucks, busses. 5-1/2 to 6-1/4 for most autos and pickups. Pickup trucks with commercial bodies such as utility trucks and light stake trucks will be somewhere in between. Keep your tape rule in your car and measure a few vehicles when you see them parked, or go to a dealer and check out a few! Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division 2001 - First year of the next millenium ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1100	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] 2-8-2]

Bruce Pilcher wrote: > > Chuck: > The justification that an AF 336 could negotiate Flyer track is open to > discussion. I have always understood that this engine had a problem in > the curves and, as such, AF suggested placing a piece of half-straight > between each curved section in an attempt to "ease" the transition. > What experiences have you AF Northern owners/operators had with this > engine? > > Truly, > Bruce -- My Northern negotiates regular S track. If I back it up I have to watch the cab overhand swingout in reverse. However, note my point that a 2-8-2 boiler is the SAME SIZE as a 4-6-2. The problem of excessive cab overhang is just not there with a smaller engine. I kitbashed a 4-8-2 out of AF parts and it does not have the Northern's problem of excessive cab overhang ij reverse. "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1101	From: JSBMLB@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] 2-8-2]

Bruce and Daniel, I have operated my 336,334,and 332 on flyer track gargraves and s-helper which looks the best. It works on all but larger radius certainly looks better.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1102	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] 2-8-2]

In a message dated 1/13/99 9:48:47 PM, mitkof@... wrote: Bruce asks, <<The justification that an AF 336 could negotiate Flyer track is open to discussion. I have always understood that this engine had a problem in the curves and, as such, AF suggested placing a piece of half-straight between each curved section in an attempt to "ease" the transition. What experiences have you AF Northern owners/operators had with this engine?>> I was running a 332AC pulling four red heavy weights and a 732 on Gilbert track just this morning. Superb - there is still nothing else quite like this experience in S gauge. There is no big problem as long as a bit of care is taken in the track work and the curves are laid reasonably flat. The clearances require watching, but one just uses a Northern to check for overhang interference ahead of time. I have experienced no difficulty in backing Northerns attached to rolling stock through Gilbert switches into sidings, either. I have five S gauge Northerns and one O gauge prewar Northern and all of them operate just fine on 19" radius track on their respective layouts. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1103	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Modern Diesels

In message <3.0.5.32.19990113160739.007a1e40@...>, John Foley <foley164@...> writes >From: John Foley <foley164@...> > >Hi Folks > What Modern Diesels do we need in S? Please let me have your ideas. >Example GE-9 cab detail, painted, Sound, and lighted. What would you spend? >What options would you like. GP40-2 -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1104	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Memory Lane & bus fun.

In message <19990114.061004.16311.1.mhrreast@...>, mhrreast@... writes >From: mhrreast@... >2) Busses. Don't forget to look for the 70's-'90's appearing >Internationl school bus. I see it quite regularly at train shows, >airport gift shops, and toy stores. Ted If this is the same bus school bus as you recently supplied to me, let me offer a warning. The bus is a reasonable model, and includes moulded seats, what I didn't expect is the 'pull back, release and let em roll' action. At the recent Kidlington exhibition (public) I had to temporary remove said bus from the layout !!! One of my operators who will remain nameless (John Miles)!! insisted on real life drama of the school bus dodging the switching operations on the grade-crossing! As I like to present a no-fun, pole faced, devout, purist scaler attitude <G> I had little option but remove said bus, but only after 11 near misses, 2 close shaves and 4 fatal accidents! Best regards 8-) kelvin white PS if I was into the nostage kick, as so many of my AF friends are, it would have to be Triang TT, on a 5ft x 3ft board.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1105	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: International School Bus

Ted and all Who makes it, who sells it(which particular toy store/chain)??????? thanks :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1106	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Memory Lane & bus fun.

Hmm!!! So who said there's no new *action* accessories for S??? Let's see, we repackage this bus with a new rerailer/grade crossing........ <RBG> David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1107	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: bus action accessort

Just take the cow off a "Cow on the Track" and attach the bus instead.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1108	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: The Welley Tour Coach and Bus Memory lane

Ok OK I had better come clean, for any one who ends up finding, buying or whatever one of these coaches...BE WARNED.....it has a you-beaut pull back let fly action, ideal for exhibition layouts like Kelvins, ought to up the fatality rate, otherwise its a prety fair model (no obvious strings is a bonus!!!) :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1109	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Mikado, why not BUILD one?

Hmmmm thought AF made an 080 some years ago. If that worked on AF trak seems like no problemo????? Exposed trak? Small radii? Large Radii? In spite of, I recall, S beginnings -thats pre WWII folks- were originally HEAVY scratchbuilt, S as we know it (primarily AF) is a convenience scale- one that allows decent detail, easier repair of equipment, etc etc when we compare with HO and and and that wonderful idea of two two two (not 3 but TWO) rails.... Two sets of blind drivers? Hmmmmm. Also thot theres a nice HEAVYWEIGHT AF thats sought after with 8 drive wheels??? THink its very do-able. But will it sell when U can buy a 40 yr old Atlantic for $50 or thereabouts????? Hey- I hear LITTLE about one bashing an old flyer into something different. Anyone??? Just rambling...... and take photos so we can get some space in MRR. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1110	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Modern Bus

In message <369D4947.ED5056CE@...>, Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> writes >From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > >Here's one for Modern Modellers > >I was at BIG W (mid price variety chain,part of Woolworths here) the other day >and picked upa (wife wouldn't let me grab two) BUS it is fairly modern in its >appearance, brandname is WELLEY, made in China (where else), it is a Mercedes >Benz 0 303 Coach. It measures approx 7.25" long 1.55"wide by 2.2" high...no >scale is indicated, however the dimensions are very close to published data for >the New 102D3 Coach by MCI (real stuff)...Amazing what you can find on the >web...still has any one got dimensions for standard wheelbase Schoolbus >(partridge Family variety) Its diecast, detail pretty good, it (and this is best >part) can be disassembled to facilitate painting. The window insert is either >blueish or grayish depending on scheme purchase. I had choice of two. I took the >Express Tours as it is basically White with graphics representing a San >Francisco Tour operation (damn shame!!) Witha bit of Road Grime and recoloured >Windows my passengers have transport from the Station (spose I better finish >building it) best of all the PRICE $4.99 (Aus) about $3.25 your money > >:-)) Richard A similar if not identical item is available sometimes in the UK - I didn't buy to my eyes it looked too European. -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1111	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: SW9 @ Walthers

Hi Folks I've just telephoned Walthers (Terminal Hobby Shop) the only SHS SW9s they claim to have in stock are Chessie #1 & #2. However Richard don't dispair I've recently repainted a SW9 into SP bloody nose - it ain't hard! If anybody finds a model shop selling the SW9 in NYC livery (@$160) please let me know asap. thanx -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1112	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re Modern Bus

Guys I draw your attention to the following page www.dinamci.com/txt102d3.htm I also was a little sceptical as most Toys of this nature tend to be a tad too European , but a little research on the web reveals that styling cues are becoming very similar on either side of the atlantic. cheers :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1113	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Modern Diesels

Make that a GP40-2 with replaceable features to back date it to a late GP40. kelvin white wrote: > > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> > > In message <3.0.5.32.19990113160739.007a1e40@...>, John > Foley <foley164@...> writes > >From: John Foley <foley164@...> > > > >Hi Folks > > What Modern Diesels do we need in S? Please let me have your ideas. > >Example GE-9 cab detail, painted, Sound, and lighted. What would you spend? > >What options would you like. > > GP40-2 > -- > kelvin white > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1114	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Mikado, why not BUILD one?

LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Hmmmm thought AF made an 080 some years ago. If that worked on AF trak seems > like no problemo????? > Exposed trak? Small radii? Large Radii? > In spite of, I recall, S beginnings -thats pre WWII folks- were originally > HEAVY scratchbuilt, S as we know it (primarily AF) is a convenience scale- > one that allows decent detail, easier repair of equipment, etc etc when we > compare with HO and and and that wonderful idea of two two two (not 3 but TWO) > rails.... > Two sets of blind drivers? Hmmmmm. > Also thot theres a nice HEAVYWEIGHT AF thats sought after with 8 drive > wheels??? > THink its very do-able. But will it sell when U can buy a 40 yr old Atlantic > for $50 or thereabouts????? > Hey- I hear LITTLE about one bashing an old flyer into something different. > Anyone??? > Just rambling...... > and take photos so we can get some space in MRR. > L. I will get a photo of my "kitbashed" 4-8-2 on the net ASAP My 21145(?) 0-8-0 runs fine with no noticeable exposed rail or blind driver overhang. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1115	From: Mark Preman	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Fwd: FOR SALE

Another opportunity for the group! Please contact him directly. Mark B. Preman ---EBT282@... wrote: > > Hello Mark, > > I buy and sell trains on EBAY and I have 25 positive remarks. If you are > interested or know of someone, I have a seven car set of S Helper heavy weight > passenger cars, lettered for the ERIE RR that I would like $300 plus $10 for > shipping. They are as new as possible and originally cost me $400. I made a > minor modification to the frame so that the trucks swing freely to accept > sharp radius curves and the couplers are mounted to the frame for extra > ability to negotiate tight curves. I am also a friend of John Foley NASG vice > president. > > Thanks, > Jack Bartman > Walden NY > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1116	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Hurray!

Well Plymouth Minnesota is somewhere between New Zealand and England as my Dispatch arrived today, Fater Richard's and before Kelvins. Gotta run, it is PPSSW night tonight and we are decending on Ben's house with tools in hand! 8-) Ken

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1117	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Roof Walks

The ban was in the late '60's. I will look for more specific information. Ted Larson ______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 11:23:42 EST From: TPDavis7@... Subject: Roof Walks SOS....SOS....does anyone out there know in what year roof walks were banned by the Federal Railroad Administration? Thanks, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N .C. _________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1118	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers

Hi all, I'm probably full of sh** (like, apparently, most of the rest of you) but I'm going to add my $.02 to the discussion evolving from "brass modern diesels" anyway. First off, I'm a Christmastime-only S-guager so I'm probably REALLY full of sh**. Here are my half baked theories: 1. People are buying ceramic Christmas villages by the boatload. (Let X= your estimate of number of households having christmas villages next year) 2. S scale trains are the most appropriate and practical scale trains for ceramic villages. 3. Ceramic villages are not appropriate for the diesel era (there are no ceramic strip malls to my knowledge). 4. A significant percentage of the people who buy ceramic villages would be happy to buy a fault tolerant (i.e., with sectional track that doen't cause derailments if on less than optimal surfaces), reasonably kidproof (its easier to justfy the purchase if the kids can play with it) steam passenger train to run around the perimeter of their ceramic village. (Let Y=your estimate of above percentage) 5. Population X/Y typically doesn't know a feedwater heater from a firebox but they know that a steam engines smokes, chugs and whistles. 6. Population X/Y typically knows how to plug in a lanp and operate a dimmer switch but that's about it. 7. Population X/Y is about as sophisticated about trains as we were when we were 7-8 years old. 8. A portion (Z) of population X/Y will catch the train bug the way we did when we were 7-8 years old and become interested in model railroading. 10. Population X/Y/Z will want to build more elaborate layouts but they'll want to utilize the stuff they already have. 11. Population X/Y/Z will discover that there is a ton of vintage American Flyer stuff that will work just great with their layouts. 12. The manufacturers of the "goes great with ceramic villages" trains will have enough money and a big enough market to produce a die cast N&W class K-2 locomotive with add-on detail parts or [fill in your personal wish list]. I think population X/Y/Z could be significant enough to make S scale vibrant once again. But it's going to take time. I can appreciate that model railroaders don't want to wait to get new products produced that fit their layouts. I'm just saying that newbies are needed to build up the market for S-stuff and the ceramic village fad/craze/whatever should be siezed upon to help pay the freight for specialized products and bring more people into the hobby. Opps... that was $.03 worth. I exceeded my pixel limit. Sorry. Monty -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1119	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: re New S scale recruits

To all and sunder Monty, you're not full of it, unless it is some interesting insights. I personally wouldn't know a ceramic village if I broke one, said craze, interest, decoration..has not to my knowledge hit these shores (hmm might look good around this years tree though!!!) But you make an interesting summation...taking your X/Y/Z analogy ....would anyone know ( have contacts in craft/xxxx industry) what sort of market exists for this stuff...I mean its likely to be in the 100's of 1000's ( thats mighty big numbers guys). Its a very good idea in a way, if some manufacturer...could even be dare I say it A TOY (there, there is that word!!!!)Manufacturer not already involved in trains but simply opportunistic ( bless their hearts ) maybe ERTL or similar might be convinced to make a little Christmas time Set....you know Santa Express stuff, but with the right people whispering in hteir ears, maybe the rolling stock could be made a little more accurate than they had planned initially....OR....OR............. An existing scale/hi rail manufacurer could utilise existing die work (at least as far as rolling stock,leave off any attachable (read breakable) details put it behind a new RTR 2-6-0 (the numbers of potential new customersmight warrant the expense of new tooling, no longer tooling for 5000 or ??? but tooling for 100000) make the loco USRA/Generic like as poss.(just a suggestion).....and the christmas,ceramic world might beat a path to your door. Of course you would need to price these sets fairly economically...but with those numbers your talking turnover. As Monty suggests, not only are the one-off sales potentially huge, and then there is the partial repeat business the next year with something similar but different....but the flow on is well, mouth watering. Also think about it....all those Christmas Trees with new train sets running around them...where kids gaze and wish...trains in "S" scale...could be the biggest coup this hobby has seen for some while. What else can I say....RON....DON.....your thoughts!!! This might sound silly, but said Train Set could incorporate a normally powered (read power fom track) loco but running on plastic track powered by Boxcar containg batteries and rudimentary speed control. Food for thought cheers :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1120	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Radius, Mikes, and Northerns

GreetingS all, I always wondered why figure 8's would never fit exactly right using standard AF track. (I know, you need 4 half straights too.) Turns out, the center line of track radius of AF track is not 19" or 20" but 19 1/16". This leads to the realization that the distance from the center of the crossing to the start of the curve should also be 19 1/16", not 20" as in almost all the AF layouts. For some reason, people started using the outside radius of track and that probably lead to the confusion. Center line is really the easiest radius to use and the only thing to use when designing a layout. 36" radius equals 3 feet and that equals 3 x 64 or 192 feet full size. This is just over a 30 degree curve. Most of the New York Central's Mike's were designed for an 18 and a half degree curve. That's a 58" radius in S scale! A 27" radius is less than half the prototype radius! So how does a 336 go around AF 19 1/16" radius curves (I've even seen Curt Johnson operate his around Pikemaster curves) ? Basically blind drivers and an unsprung frame. The blind center drivers allow the wheel to slide across the rail head until the wheel completely misses the rail. (Hold a piece of curve track to an upside down Northern and you can see space between the inside of the rail and the outside of the middle two driver edges.) The unsprung frame prevents the middle two drivers from dropping into the void while the loco is on a curve. A third factor is that the center drivers measure only 1.140" in diameter while the outside drivers on a 334DC without Pull-mor tires measure 1.161 at the tread-flange corner. This allows the center drivers to ride slightly (0.020") above the rail and for the engines to negotiate slight vertical irregularities without undue problems. Is it prototypical? Sort of. Many roads had engines with blind drivers. One of the engines still in use is 3' gauge East Broad Top 2-8-2 #16 with both center drivers blind. EBT's standard gauge 0-6-0 #3 even had blind center drivers. EBT didn't have self-guarded frogs and could therefore have wider treads on their blind drivers to keep the wheels from dropping off the rails. The Pennsylvania also had many large engines with blind drivers, including the main driver of at least some of their 2-10-0's. At one time, the PRR had problems with these blind drivers coming off the rail when switching sidings with sharp curves, so they installed "carrier rails" to carry these wheels. They would always be on the inside of the outer running rail, and in extreme cases could be on the outside of the inner running rail as well. The Erie and a number of other roads had a different problem. During WWII a number of wide gauge 2-10-0's were built for our Russian allies, but were never sent overseas before the war ended. The government sold them to the U.S. roads at low cost and the railroads solved the gauge problem by installing an extra wide tire over the driver centers with flanges where they belonged for 4'-8 1/2" gauge track. They worked fine except on self guarded frogs where the wide tires rode over the guards. Slow speed was the rule! Is it possible to make and market a brass 2-8-2 to run on 19 1/16" curves? Only time will tell. Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1121	From: PatnDave	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Modern Diesels

John Market timing might be bad ,but then again, maybe good but I'd still opt as my first choice for an SW-1500. Then a GP15-1, GP40, "GE"- C30-7, B36-7, C36-7, DASH-8 40CW. Appropriate models should have "Ditch Lights" easily made functional, cab interiors, flush fitting window glass. Headlights, marker lights, number boards all pre-drilled for lighting. A way out wish would be for the modern version of the old Cow and Calf swithchers, an SD-38 with MT-6 slug. Used primarily in yard hump operations but also frequents the road during transfers. Dave -----Original Message----- From: John Foley <foley164@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Wednesday, January 13, 1999 4:12 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Brass Modern Diesels >From: John Foley <foley164@...> > >Hi Folks > What Modern Diesels do we need in S? Please let me have your ideas. >Example GE-9 cab detail, painted, Sound, and lighted. What would you spend? >What options would you like. > > John Foley > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1122	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers

A great idea to try to push S as the perfect trains size to go with these. Big problem is.... the manufacturers, such as Dept 56, are already pushing HO trains made by Bachmann, and painted in appropriate colors to go with their products. Better move fast if your going to stop that and turn the tide. I ran a 21168 with two of the old time franklin coaches this year and they did indeed look very good.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1123	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: radius of curves

Did anyone ever build a NASG Berk with blind center drivers, etc., to operate on Flyer track and was it a success? P.S.: you scale guys must love that ceramic village stuff.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1124	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers

Verry interestink!! OK, to take this a little further, as I believe it to be a valid path of thought. The "Its a Wonderful Life" villages need a steam powered, heavyweight passenger train. This train needs to be RUGGED (as nice as the AM cars look, they're not rugged enough!) Not only do we have small humans to watch out for, there's also the feline and canine element too! So there's an excuse for mass production of a inexpensive passenger car that fills the 20s to 60s era (much of the heavyweight fleet survived that long in some areas). The engine could share the same chassis as the 1900s engine (See next comment). The Dickens village stuff, authentically, should have English style engines, but that isn't what's being pushed--early American stuff is, so OK. Something solid, like the Frontiersman cars, but smaller, these were always way too big! Loco could be a ten wheeler, late early period, so it can be a little bigger to fit the mechanism inside--but still be somewhat to scale. Ten wheeler chassis can make a fine 30s era 4-6-2 or whatever, saving production costs, for the "...Life" sets. You could make this battery powered with plastic track, but I think the market share this stuff is aimed at, will ask for, and pay for, a 'normal' electric train, if it is made with quality and ruggedness. Reverse unit may not be necessary in these, although the ability to add one would be a plus. Sound systems, yes!! The numbers may be very good for this, so the question is why hasn't anyone done it yet??? Well, the tooling and production costs for the little houses are far less imposing than that for a train set, then there's the UL listings, insurance, etc.etc. etc. The return probably isn't in the 30% range, but more like 10%, and the venture capitalists can find more lucrative places. What we need now is a well-placed marketer to take this on and sell it! Now is the time to push this, maybe even too late for next Christmas. S'incerely, David D. (Who is definitely full of sh**--ask my wife, she complains about my farting all the time! <BG>)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1125	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers

All we have to do to convince Dept 56 about their mistake is show them how well S gauge runs on uneven surfaces compared to HO!! HO is too small for the villages anyway!!! Then sell them on quality, that should push Bachmann out the door fast!!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1126	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Tonka Trucks

A few weeks ago I wrote to the list about the Maistro mini Tonka trucks. I returned to Toys R Us to see if I could buy up the rest of them. As usual, there were none left. After reading that someone was looking for a repo load for their auto unloading car, I decided to try the Tonka trucks out. I'm kicking myself now! Both trucks work perfectly and roll right off the ramp. The dump truck looks especially good. Don't pass these up if they come to a toy store near you. Jacques

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1127	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Lionel Catalog

Does anyone know when the new Lionel Catalog will be coming out? Seems like last year it came out in January. If thats the case, we might see some new AF for 1999 in the new catalog in a couple of weeks, what do you think? Wayne

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1128	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/14/1999
Subject: Re: S-guage

>Dear Dan, > >We just aren't sure yet what requirment to impose on the Hi Rail Version. >What is the general radius for HiRail S scale product? > >Scott > I am a member of the Golden Gate American Flyer Club. Some of the guys in the clubs are collectors and NOT operators. Most of the operators use the old AF track with (I think) 21" radius. All of the guys are collectors and want to have one of everything. But only from certain manufacturers. Lionel, current makers of AF are the most important to them. But they also want one of everything from American Models and S Helper Service. I know that the AM Pacific has been a big hit because it was originally offered in two road names and now is offered in four, plus black unlettered. That last must indicate interest of the scalers, because the guys in my club are only interested in ready to run. Southwind has a brass USRA 2-8-0 Consolidated that they offered in HiRail and must have gotten good orders because they delivered the HiRail version. It is my most beautiful engine. They talked of offering other steamers in HiRail but it seems any future plans for any new engines (including scale) are on hold. The Southwind is not in the club. I believe the reason is that it is not "collectible" because Southwind offers mostly scale only, so why should AF guys collect the once-in-a while HiRail piece. AM and SHS would appear to be thriving. They each continue to offer a more and more pieces and they even stock them for extended periods. I can not tell you if the AM Pacifics and the SHS diesels, such as the new SW-9 are acceptable to scalers. All I can say is that with their beautiful detail such as crew in the engines and full interior in the new SHS cabooses, they are the best thing to happen to S HiRail ever! Note that these are easily convertible to scale couplers and wheels. Do you subscribe the S-trains@onelist.com? If not start now. There is a lively discussion on this topic. It has been pointed out that the old Gilbert Northern handles tight curves well, so large loco can run on the old AF track. As an aside, there is a lot of interest in DCC, which I have installed. The SHS SW-9 runs AC, DC and DCC (plug a decoder into the socket) without modification. Directional lighting works in all modes. Having it DCC ready made it an easy choice for me. My club is meeting Friday eve. If you can send me additional info I will see how much interest there is for the club members. Personal Preferences: Since I am not a hard core RR buff, I am afraid that your 2-8-2 will look a lot like my Southwind model (although your photo looks quite a bit different) I will still buy one, but if I am going to continue purchasing, you will need to offer items that are clearly distinct from one another. I believe that HiRailers want only painted and lettered. For myself, I lack the skills, so I would have to pay someone to complete anything not painted and lettered. Price is not a show stopper for me. I would love to pay $1500 - 2000 for the really big steamers, if only they could run on my track. (I realize that will never happen.) If your loco can handle 27" curves but not 24" I might see if there was a way I could replace my 24", I really want good quality steam locos! I hope this is helpful.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1129	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: American Flyer

New S-guage products are quite numerous now. I like Lionel's products, I think we are way to critical of them. Yes they have dropped the ball, but I am hopeing they will surprise us with some real good stuff in January because there new catalog should be out then. They have given us some beautiful products the last ten years, the MP, the NP, the NH ep5, the UP, many nice cars, and some wonderful Geeps. They really increased the collector base of products. Yes they are not made to the Gilbert Standard, but what is now days? I wish I could buy a car made as good as my Dad's 63 Cadillac. Even my collector car a 65 Corvair has outlasted most of the cars on the road today, it's still here and looking good. I'd like to buy a stereo as good as the one's I remember. Today products are designed to only last a few years, and that covers the whole gamut of merchandizing. The products from Lionel are still REALLY AMERICAN FLYER, made from the original molds. I love the PA sets especially, they look just like the old ones, and I think the Missouri Pacific is even better than the original one. It will be interesting to see what is in the January catalog. I have a feeling Lionel took alot of heat from dropping the SD 40 like they did, and I think they will want to make up for that huge mistake. Wayne

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1130	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 1/13/1999
Subject: Re: re SW9...smitten

I got an SW-9 from Blue Caboose Hobbies in Columbus, Ohio last spring, $170. Also, I believe Billy Wade is moving some at that price at this time also. Richard Snook wrote: > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > > Okay > > The walthers pages are still displaying the $199.95 pricing...I,ve emailed for > clarification (yet to get reply)...anyone know of an outlet selling these beasts > ??(they have to take visa) Idon't think the Siskiyou line used SW-9s (happy to > be corrected here) but they will soon!! > Thanks > :-)) Richard > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1131	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: DICKENSVILLE TRAIN

You may remember and many have commented that Bachmann made an On30 thats "O" narrow gauge 30" train this year. How much 30" narrow gauge is there in the world? Ho track is Sn42, any 42" Narrow gauge in the world? Sold retail for $249.95 but local hobby shops sold it for under $200. It ran on HO track but the cars look oldtme "S" scale. The engine was a 10 wheeler. Any contacts with Bachmann??? This would look great on S-Helper's new track system. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1132	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: reefer model

Repeating my question of Jan. 12, if there were an eight-hatch iced reefer avilable in S, lettered for Canadian National or Grand Trunk Western in red on gray, or undecorated, how many do you think you might buy? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1133	From: Tomlinson, John D	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: DICKENSVILLE TRAIN

> From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > > You may remember and many have commented that Bachmann made an On30 > thats "O" narrow gauge 30" train this year. How much 30" narrow gauge is > there in the world? Ho track is Sn42, any 42" Narrow gauge in the world? > Sold retail for $249.95 but local hobby shops sold it for under $200. It > ran on HO track but the cars look oldtme "S" scale. The engine was a 10 > wheeler. Any contacts with Bachmann??? This would look great on S-Helper's new track system While I agree that the Bachmann On30 would look much better on S-Helper's new track or any of the other emerging 'new' S gauge tracks, we must remember a rather basic marketing strategy being employed by Bachmann -- they already make and sell the same HO track that their On30 train operates on. By combining the two product lines, they have created a similar synergy to the 'G - gauge' track/trains that LGB did in the early 70s -- multiple scales running on the same track product line. John D. Tomlinson > Configuration Mgmt Deployment - CA-Endevor Support > 6-6M67 M/S: 6F-62 Bldg: 7-311.3 > Ph: (425) 477-4589 Pgr: (206) 986-5329 Hotline: (206) 655-HELP > Boeing Web page: http://www-ads.ca.boeing.com/cmd >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1134	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Gargraves trak, repair manual source

OK so I bot an Atlantic with allied odds N ends, yep bit the bullet so to speak since the unit doesnt run- OUCH! Is it Greenberg that has a decent fixit manual? And are their a couplea prime sources for parts that I should have, other than my local hobby shop as middle man that'll take 5 weeks for a part to arrive- IF it does? Finally, any comments on Gargraves track, be it tin or stainless, non flex or whatever? Initial concern maybe railjoining? thanx for any info. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1135	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: Gargraves trak, repair manual source

LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > Finally, any comments on Gargraves track, be it tin or stainless, non flex or > whatever? Initial concern maybe railjoining? The Gargraves is easy to join to AF. Pins match well enough. After bending Gargraves you usually need to cut odd the inner rail to match the outer rail length. Like all cutting of sheet metal, you need a really fine tootth saw blade or Dremel blade. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1136	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: min radius for brass

In message <v04003a00b2c3f4976dcf@[206.170.3.204]>, Daniel Neumayer <Daniel@...> writes RE proposed 3rf Rail 2-8-2 >If your loco can handle 27" curves but not 24" I might see if there was a >way I could replace my 24", I really want good quality steam locos! > >I hope this is helpful. Dan, 27in radius rather than 24 appears to be the accepted minimum radius to be aimed for, certainly Jettie used this for the 2-8-0s. On my scale layout under costruction in the garage my absolute minimum is 30in on the branch/inustrial spur and 33in on the main line. Best regards -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1137	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers

FYI, I discovered a newsgroup called rec.collecting.villages and posted a question re the market size for ceramic Christmas villages. If I learn anything useful, I'll let you know. I also discovered this thread which you may find interesting: http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?search=thread&recnum=%3c77m84p$4p4$1@...%3e%231/1&svcclass=dnserver Monty --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1138	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers

Dave: Dept. 56 buildings do look better with S then with HO. However, what S engines and rolling stock will we suggest to the distributor at what price? Currently available S motive power is considerably more expensive then corresponding HO (Bachman). A battery powered engine on plastic track? Didn't Ertl try this a few years ago? After the initial fan-fare about this release, I haven't heard a thing since. The one set I saw left a lot to be desired... even for the Christmas tree group. So there we are again. Which current manufacturer is going to offer one of their engines at $49.95? American Models, S-Helper...? Probably unfair to them to even suggest it. We again have a potential market that current product prices prohibits us from entering. We have a "set" available from Am. Models, but what young parent is going to be able or willing to purchase one, along with several Dept. 56 buildings, to put under the tree for 2 weeks? (getting stepped on and otherwise abused. My WIFE stepped on my bell danger signal! Merry Christmas!!). I'm not throwing water on the idea, but what is a realistic alternative? Best wishes Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1139	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: DICKENSVILLE TRAIN

There was not much in the way of 30" and 42" in the USA, but in other countries, they could be even be called common. I believe the "standard" gauge in New Zealand is 42". I generally think of 42" as British Colonial gauge, as it seems to occur in former British colonies. Closer to home, the Newfoundland Railway in Canada was 42". It lasted long enough to be completely dieselized. It also had narrow gauge Pacifics (4-6-2's), which no US railroad did. There was a lot of plantation railroads with 30" gauge. Actually TT gauge which is also used for HOm is perfect for Sn30. Back to the Bachmann set. The engine would be a good start for a conversion to S standard. Grandt Line makes a frame detail set for an On3 conversion that could also be used in S. The cars should be good also, although you might want to splice two together to make a longer car. I just wish Bachmann would have made the set Sn42, and designed it for easy conversion to Sn3. Oh well, they you standard gaugers couldn't have used it. Dave Heine Narrow minded and proud of it >From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > >You may remember and many have commented that Bachmann made an On30 >thats "O" narrow gauge 30" train this year. How much 30" narrow gauge is >there in the world? Ho track is Sn42, any 42" Narrow gauge in the world? >Sold retail for $249.95 but local hobby shops sold it for under $200. It >ran on HO track but the cars look oldtme "S" scale. The engine was a 10 >wheeler. Any contacts with Bachmann??? This would look great on >S-Helper's new track system. > >Staying on NASG track, Glenn >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1140	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: Attn: Jeff Malacot(?)

To: Jeff Malacot (?)------ I received your telephone message, but could not understand your phone number, so I couldn't return your call. Please call again (evenings), or email me at portlines@... To: all other SMail readers......please excuse me for using SMail for this purpose....No alternative. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1141	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: min radius for brass

I'm finding this minimum radius discussion somewhat interesting. In my opinion (not necessarily yours) another factor to consider is what looks good. In general the larger you can make a curve radius the better off you are. Another factor on steam locomotive construction that wasn't brought up yet, is the amount of side play on the drivers. This varies with different models, but most have some. Also, it is best to have a loco that is able to go around a radius that is slightly smaller than its rated minimum radius. That way there aren't problems with less than perfect trackwork. BTW, I use 30" minimum radius on my Sn3 layout. This is about the minimum radius that can run anything and have it look decent. If I had to use a smaller radius, I would only use smaller locos. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1142	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: min. radius for brass

In all the discussion of min. radius, the assumption has been that the problem is with big engines. But Jettie of Southwind produced a 2-8-0 that handles AF curves and said he could produce a 2-8-2 if he had the orders/finances. But he told me he could not make an Atlantic for AF curves. The problem is that with a short "wheel base" for the drivers, the engine would wobble down the straight away if he allowed for AF curves. I don't know if he is right, but it appears the question is complicated. -Daniel

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1143	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: Re: min. radius for brass

Daniel Neumayer wrote: > > From: Daniel Neumayer <Daniel@...> > > In all the discussion of min. radius, the assumption has been that the > problem is with big engines. But Jettie of Southwind produced a 2-8-0 that > handles AF curves and said he could produce a 2-8-2 if he had the > orders/finances. But he told me he could not make an Atlantic for AF > curves. The problem is that with a short "wheel base" for the drivers, the > engine would wobble down the straight away if he allowed for AF curves. > > I don't know if he is right, but it appears the question is complicated. So how much do your Atlantics wobble on straightaways? -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1144	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/15/1999
Subject: More toys

Well my shipment of SOO and GN bulkheads as well as my cabooses arrived. They are great, particularly the lumber loads. I really need to go down and work on the track work but the temptation is really there to weather up the cars, put couplers on them and get them in revenue service. Decisions, decisions.... Then again it was not many years ago in S that you could go all year and not get the opportunity to put new cars on the rails. Happy problems.... Ken Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1145	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: early intermodal

I've heard some questions about how to use those non-railroad trailers from SHS. The following article from the freight mail list says that they were more common than RR owned trailers on some roads back in the 50's. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division 2001 - First year of the next millenium --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: blindog@ (D. Scott Chatfield) To: freightcars@... Subject: Re: early intermodal Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 02:23:49 -0400 Message-ID: <v01510131b09d68d96fde@[168.121.35.53]> At 5:05 PM 11/22/97, Jim Six wrote: >With the wealth of contemporary intermodel products available today for the >HO modeler it is a shame that there is so little (in comparison) available >for the 1950s and early 1960s. Since this earlier time is supposed to be >the most popular modeling era where are the needed tractor/trailers and >rail cars?? Does anyone know if we will see any new intermodal products >available in HO for the 1950s and early 1960s? The problem has several dimensions: Most roads didn't get serious about piggyback until the late '50s, which really is later than most transition-era modelers model. TOFC rarely ran behind steam, and then only on a few routes. So how much of a market is there really? Second, early piggyback was rarely interchanged, so the equipment tended to be unique to each road. Hard to find any one prototype that fits multiple roads. Remember, Trailer Train was not formed until 1956, and only a few roads were members at first. The few hundred 75-foot F39 and 50-foot F30 pig flats were all TT had until starting to buy 85-foot flats circa 1960. Third, Plan One was a big part of piggybacking back then, and that means trucking company trailers. Most modelers don't understand this (or don't want to), because as any manufacturer will tell you, non-railroad equipment just doesn't sell that well. Fourth, longer cars don't sell as well as shorter cars. Yes, you can run shorter cars on some lines, but then you are mostly using all sorts of converted flats. And very few short flats received hitches. So if you want them to look as good as the rest of your freight cars, you have to model the tie-down chains and winches. Great fun. Actually, things are not so bleak, assuming you model the early to mid '60s. We have the Walthers F39 flat. Sunshine has a beautiful F30 kit. The Athearn 85-foot flat is a Pullman F85e, and the side sill (or is that "sidesill"?) can be modified to make an F85b. Together they give you one-quarter of TT's 85-foot fleet. The Walthers F89f can be cut down to make a Bethlehem F85c, and some work it can be made into an ACF flat. And Trailer Train wasn't the only owner of these flats. However, they were the overwhelming owner of of them, and the RR-owned flats were not normally interchanged (until the days of Incentive Per Diem, that is). Trailers are another matter. I'm not aware of any accurate models in plastic for the early '60s, except maybe the Athearn reefer van, a Fruehauf design built for PFE. The A-Line Fruehauf corrogated Z-Van is a late '60s van. You would still see lots of 35-foot vans. In short, modeling piggybacking in the late '50s or early '60s is not as easy as the later periods. Piggybacking was not offered on as many routes, nor on many inter-line routings, the equipment was not as standardized, the equipment (both flats and vans) was not interchanged much. For Jim's Carolina Western, these factors bear heavily, because his is a bridge route in a secondary corridor. D. Scott Chatfield --------- End forwarded message ---------- ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1146	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Price

The question of "how much $$$ is too much" was asked, regarding Christmas tree layouts. One benchmark would be "how much did AF cost in the '50's?" and what would that price be in todays dollars? I suspect that any price equal or below that inflation adjusted price should be a marketable price. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division 2001 - First year of the next millenium ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1147	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Reefers

If anyone has been waiting to get a Hoods Milk wood-sided reefer, we have them back in stock. This car has been an AMAZING seller; this was about our 8th run of this one roadname!!!!! If you're unfamiliar with it, check it out on our website. Also received another run of the multi-colored Post Road Ale, and the first run of the newest car, West India Fruit & Steamship Co. Look for the first of the PFEX cars next month! Right now, we have all roadnames in stock except Central Vt Milk, and Strohs Beer (both of which will be re-run soon). Getting very low are Swift, and WP Ice Svc; I doubt we will re-run either one of those cars again. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1148	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: New pages

Here are some new pages with some new stuff to spice up your life. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/projects/articulation.htm (4-6-6-0)(quickie page) http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/paper/paper.htm (free buildings) http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/feature/actuator.htm (Thanks Chuck) http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/handcar_diode_hrm.htm (Thanks Alex) I am always looking for new ideas for web pages. If you are inspired by something you see is S-Trains list to write up a web page, please do. If you see questions repeating in s-trains and think we need a webpage to address the issue, please send me your ideas. I don't have all the answers, but I can post your answers on my web pages. Thanks for all the help. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1149	From: James R. Schiele	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: (no subject)

You Might BE A Redneck If: You think paprika is a Third World Country. Have a good day. Hope car is running fine. Love, Dad

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1150	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Re: New Shipment

Dear "S" Friends, The container with the rest of the cabooses, 2nd run Bulkhead flat cars(with the new pulpwood and wrapped lumber loads), 4th run standard flat cars and the balance of the first run of S Trax System last thursday (Jan 7th). We have been trying to catch up with the shipments ever since. I expect to get the last of the orders out on Monday. To compound the confusion, the 1999 catalogs arrived two days earlier (we had expected these before Thanksgiving) so we have been sending out a backorder or over 3500+ catalogs at the same time. And as to make things even more interesting, the F3 deadline was extended to January 15th due to the fact that the offices were closed between Christmas and New Years Day so that Robin and I could visit with our son in Alabama (the highlight of the trip for me was being with my eldest son and visiting with Tom Robinson on Montgomery and seeing his neat link coupler era AF layout). If anyone on the list missed the F3 deadline, let me know in the next day or so. If anyone had not received our 1999 32 page color catalog, these are now available. Due to the cost of production and shipping, we have been asking for $2.00 to help with these cost. These can be ordered on line via our secured web page site at: http://www.showcaseline.com or, give Robin a call at 1-800-465-0303 Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1151	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Re: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers

Dear Monty, You are not full of SH-- or hot air, but that was some interesting market research. The funny thing about this thread is it would be a huge risk to tool a set similar to the Bachman On30 stuff and expect current "S" gaugers to buy it. Yes, it is beautiful and cute and yes the price is right, but it has no sound, smoke or choo choo. It was our experience with the last brass "AF 19" radius curved track compatible steam engine" from Southwind, that if it did not have smoke and choo choo, only a very few "AF enthusiasts" were interested. The cost for this painted and lettered 2-8-0 was $799 and we sold only 30 unit while at the same time, we sold over 300 American Models steamers (and most of them were sets). The difference was not the price, but the lack of what we all remembered as children of our AF steam engines. Don T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1152	From: michael prell	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer

Time will tell, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it if I were you. My own "for what it's worth" theory about the Big-L concerning Flyer is that L's got Flyer right where it wants it, and that's not good for us. ---Wayne Broadhead <wayne@...> wrote: > > From: Wayne Broadhead <wayne@...> > > > > New S-guage products are quite numerous now. I like Lionel's products, > I think we are way to critical of them. Yes they have dropped the ball, > but I am hopeing they will surprise us with some > real good stuff in January because there new catalog should be out then. > > They have given us some beautiful products the last ten years, the MP, > the > NP, the NH ep5, the UP, many nice cars, and some wonderful Geeps. They > really increased the collector base of products. Yes they are not made > to > the Gilbert Standard, but what is now days? I wish I could buy a car > made as good as my Dad's 63 Cadillac. Even my collector car a 65 > Corvair has outlasted most of the cars on the road today, it's still > here and looking good. I'd like to buy a stereo as good as the one's I > remember. Today products are designed to only last a few years, and > that covers the whole gamut of merchandizing. > > The products from Lionel are still REALLY AMERICAN FLYER, made from the > > original molds. I love the PA sets especially, they look just like the > old ones, and I think the Missouri Pacific is even better than the > original one. > > It will be interesting to see what is in the January catalog. I have a > feeling Lionel took alot of heat from dropping the SD 40 like they did, > and I think they will want to make up for that huge mistake. > > Wayne > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1153	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Gargraves

I use S.S. Gargraves on my 400 sq. foot AF layout. My top surface is Homasote fiber board. I use AF switches that are sunk into the Homasote by about 1/3 of a inch. (a router works well for this purpose.) Gargraves SS is great maintenance free track but will not match up perfectly with AF switches. For action cars I use AF track trip accessories but modify them by raising the contact rail up with 3 or more washers. First you need to drill the rivets out and replace with a nut and bolt. Only use SS Gargraves, the extra 25% in price is well worth the maintenance free benefit. In 5 years I have never needed to clean my track. Cut the track with a Dremel and a Fiberglass reinforced blade, a hand saw is useless with SS. form your curves with a jig ( I made three different radius curves ) and be prepared to WORK them. Secure them to the platform with #6 screws (about 1" or 3/4 ") but first drill a hole in the bass wood tie, they will split if you don't. power them up by putting 16 gauge wire inside the rail (spread the ties apart, the rail will open, put the wire inside, and push the ties back to their original position) and power them every 12 feet for best operation. You can easily solder wire to the SS if you buy solder that is made for this purpose. Any questions ? I'm at mrmccarron@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1154	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Re: New pages

Paul, That is indeed a clever idea. I wish I could cut and paste with hand tools as well as you have done using the computer. In fact, I have acquired a couple of even smaller Flyers (4-4-2) with the idea to make a small articulated ore hauler. The design would be a bit ad hoc, but, it would be along the lines of the Chessie H2, H3, H4 and H6 2-6-6-2 locos. Did you make that thing in your pictures run? Great ZOT itS, Bill Porter Paul Yorke wrote: > > From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> > > Here are some new pages with some new stuff to spice up your life. > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/projects/articulation.htm > (4-6-6-0)(quickie page)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1155	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Re: min. radius for brass

In a message dated 1/15/99 10:01:51 PM, Daniel@... wrote: Dan reports: <<But he told me he could not make an Atlantic for AF curves. The problem is that with a short "wheel base" for the drivers, the engine would wobble down the straight away if he allowed for AF curves.>> The explaination I received about the Atlantic was that there would be interference with the four wheel pilot truck. I am dubious on either count. The AM Pacific (a longer wheel base engine, to be sure) runs very smoothly in hi-rail form and, of course, has a four wheel pilot. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1156	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel catalog /Flyer

Wayne, Don't hold your breath for Lionel to have anything in S this year. Maybe a boxcar or two...S-Helper, American Models and Crown Models are all making much better looking products than the Big L anyway. .....Steve Blackburn ...RMHR... Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1157	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Johnny Lightning Cars

Today I looked at some cars from the Johnny Lightning TV show cars series. The Dragnet mid-60's Fairlane and a '61 Ford were of interest, but alas and alack, they are undersize. The full-size Ford is about the size that the Fairlane should be, and the Fairlane is about the size that a Falcon should be. So they are plenty good as generic '60's cars, but aren't as accurate as many of the Mint Editions cars. The detail on the Fairlane is excellent. On the Ford, so so. Hard to even be sure what year it is. Many of the JL cars are undersize, while others appear to be spot on 1:64th. At the JL web site, I found a place for comments. JL was kind enough to reply. Both notes are below. I encourage you to give JL applause for their good stuff, and encouragement for improving. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't live there. --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Lisa Greco <lgreco@...> To: "'mhrreast@...'" <mhrreast@...> Subject: RE: Comments Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:45:43 -0500 Message-ID: <F1676152F4F0D111B95800104B9B1C0E10C827@localhost> Thanks for the suggestions and kind words. I'll pass them on for you. Best Regards, Lisa Lisa Greco, Manager Customer Service & Web Services Playing Mantis 3600 McGill Street Suite 300 South Bend, IN 46619-3688 1.800.MANTIS.8 -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, January 02, 1999 11:38 PM To: lgreco@... Subject: Comments Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted on Saturday, January 2, 1999 at 23:38:00 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Your web site is GREAT for ease of use, and I buy much of what you produce, but NOT ALL. I buy the items that are stock (as they came from the showroom) and that are 1:64th scale (1:66 to 1:62). I like cars in my collection to have the same size relative to each other that the real ones had. Small cars should be smaller than large cars, etc. Your pickup truck collection all looked quite close to proper scale. Your '63 Chev looks undersize. I look forward to seeing all of your offerings to be exactly 1:64, so they are all the right size relative to each other. That will make them much more attractive to buy. There is strong interest in your '50's Partridge Family bus. If that is really 1:64, you'll sell vast quantities of them to the 1:64 model railroad community. Thanks, Ted Larson ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1158	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: early intermodal

Here's some info to go along with those non-RR piggyback trailers from SHS. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division 2001 - First year of the next millenium --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: D. Scott Chatfield To: freightcars@... Subject: Re: early intermodal Date: Sun, 23 Nov 1997 02:23:49 -0400 Message-ID: <v01510131b09d68d96fde@[168.121.35.53]> At 5:05 PM 11/22/97, Jim Six wrote: >With the wealth of contemporary intermodel products available today for the >HO modeler it is a shame that there is so little (in comparison) available >for the 1950s and early 1960s. Since this earlier time is supposed to be >the most popular modeling era where are the needed tractor/trailers and >rail cars?? Does anyone know if we will see any new intermodal products >available in HO for the 1950s and early 1960s? The problem has several dimensions: Most roads didn't get serious about piggyback until the late '50s, which really is later than most transition-era modelers model. TOFC rarely ran behind steam, and then only on a few routes. So how much of a market is there really? Second, early piggyback was rarely interchanged, so the equipment tended to be unique to each road. Hard to find any one prototype that fits multiple roads. Remember, Trailer Train was not formed until 1956, and only a few roads were members at first. The few hundred 75-foot F39 and 50-foot F30 pig flats were all TT had until starting to buy 85-foot flats circa 1960. Third, Plan One was a big part of piggybacking back then, and that means trucking company trailers. Most modelers don't understand this (or don't want to), because as any manufacturer will tell you, non-railroad equipment just doesn't sell that well. Fourth, longer cars don't sell as well as shorter cars. Yes, you can run shorter cars on some lines, but then you are mostly using all sorts of converted flats. And very few short flats received hitches. So if you want them to look as good as the rest of your freight cars, you have to model the tie-down chains and winches. Great fun. Actually, things are not so bleak, assuming you model the early to mid '60s. We have the Walthers F39 flat. Sunshine has a beautiful F30 kit. The Athearn 85-foot flat is a Pullman F85e, and the side sill (or is that "sidesill"?) can be modified to make an F85b. Together they give you one-quarter of TT's 85-foot fleet. The Walthers F89f can be cut down to make a Bethlehem F85c, and some work it can be made into an ACF flat. And Trailer Train wasn't the only owner of these flats. However, they were the overwhelming owner of of them, and the RR-owned flats were not normally interchanged (until the days of Incentive Per Diem, that is). Trailers are another matter. I'm not aware of any accurate models in plastic for the early '60s, except maybe the Athearn reefer van, a Fruehauf design built for PFE. The A-Line Fruehauf corrogated Z-Van is a late '60s van. You would still see lots of 35-foot vans. In short, modeling piggybacking in the late '50s or early '60s is not as easy as the later periods. Piggybacking was not offered on as many routes, nor on many inter-line routings, the equipment was not as standardized, the equipment (both flats and vans) was not interchanged much. For Jim's Carolina Western, these factors bear heavily, because his is a bridge route in a secondary corridor. D. Scott Chatfield ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1159	From: seg@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Hobby Surplus Sales

Has anyone been able to get a copy of the AF parts price list from Hobby Surplus Sales as offered on their web page? I can't seem to get a response from them, and it seems to be a ruse to get you to fill out their questionnaire. Steve Gruninger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1160	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: The target should be Target

If Department 56 wants to join with Bachmann that's fine but that's not the entire ceramic village narket. If I were a S-scale manufacturer, I'd focus on Target stores. They sell two seperate lines of ceramic villages with new items issued (and items retired) every year. Thy'd probably be interested in competing with Deptartment 56. Their web page includes a phone number for businesses that want to become Target partners (hint, hint). If I were a S-scale manufacturer, I'd 1) Produce modern (with ballast) sectional track (like S-Helper's) with snow patches on it. 2) Produce a "goes great with ceramic villages" train set consisting of: die cast, virtually kidproof, streamlined steam loco (the N&W K-2 for example) lacking any details that can be easily broken off 3) Produce three heavyweight lighted passenger cars 1) It looks more appropriate than On30 2) There's a ton of compatible, vintage AF equiptment still in operating condition. 3) The S-Helper track system includes snow patches --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1161	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: The target should be Target (continued)

(Sorry, I inadvertently hit the send button before finishing this) If Department 56 wants to join with Bachmann that's fine but that's not the entire ceramic village narket. If I were a S-scale manufacturer, I'd focus on Target stores. They sell two seperate lines of ceramic villages with new items issued (and items retired) every year. They obviously are competing with Department 56. Their web page ( http://www.target.com/guest/contact/index.html ) includes a phone number for businesses that want to become Target partners (hint, hint). They also have a page for customers to make suggestions (hint, hint). I already posted a message suggesting an S-scale train set but it wouldn't hurt for others to chime in. If I were a S-scale manufacturer, I'd 1) Produce modern (with ballast) sectional track (like S-Helper's) with snow patches on it. 2) Produce a "goes great with ceramic villages" train set consisting of: a) a die cast, virtually kidproof, streamlined steam loco (the N&W K-2 for example) lacking any details that can be easily broken off, an inexpensive (Bachnmann-like) smoke unit, and a 9v-battery-in-the-tender chugger along the lines of what Mantua was doing years ago. It need not have a reversing unit. b) 2 or 3 heavyweight lighted passenger cars c) a bare bones transformer To market it, I'd say: 1) It looks more appropriate than On30 2) It's less breakable than the Bachmann alternative 3) It uses wider track which adds stability and reduces derailments 4) There's a ton of compatible, vintage AF equipment still in operating condition that can be picked up at train shows. 5) You can actually use it to start building a model railroad empire. If it sold well, I'd then sell detail parts to make the train more accurate. Finally, perhaps some of you who can explain all the flaws with On30 could post someting the the rec.collecting.villages newsgroup before those folks become convinced On30 is the way to go. Monty --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1162	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: Just One More Thing...

I sound like Inspector Colombo... After checking out the On30 offerings at http://www.bachmanntrains.com/bachmann/mainpage/start2.html it's clear these trains would look weird on a "It's a Wonderful Life" ceramic village. Monty --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1163	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: demaggnetizing reverse units

Did anyone ever have any luck demagnetizing sticky reverse units with a tape recorder head demagnetizer? I don't understand why this magneticization happens. I thought that with A.C., the direction of the magnetic field changes as the direction of the current changes, and thus things like reverse units and armature poles should not become magnetized. Is this correct? I have found that with most of my reverse units that stick at high voltage, a hit of low voltage seems to release them. Could the lower voltage be demagnetizing the plate? I'd just like to say that I see no need to convert to DC. With the rails kept clean with a track eraser and the pickup wheels kept clean, most of my reverse units work well enough to permit all kinds of switching and yard operations as well as around and around running. The few reverse units that don't perform can sure drive you nuts though. Hence this posting. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1164	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/16/1999
Subject: 0n30 rolling stock

The On30 offerings are excellent in detail........you can't get a S set right now in the price range $250 .....many are showing up in the 165 and lower range. They have announced individual pieces to follow and 3 freight cars are listed for I think summer release, priced very reasonable. This provides alot of workabe material....while the passenger cars are tall, they still look very nice behind a S gauge locomotive....if they were spliced longer would be better yet.....and the combine could become an excellent drovers style caboose with a cupola added...The thing to do here might be approach them saying you guys are almost S how about it....ya got two markets here. We let Ertl slip from S into HO and they are making $25 cars and $40 to $80 buildings. All the Toy Farmers were building 1/64 farms and using HO trains........we should really have got behind Ertl better and pushed for a better product than that trash set they made....they certainly copied the AF box car right down to the door latch and copied the AM GP-35 to the point you can mount their handrails on the Ertl unit....well we did get some figures and a switchman with a radio is that a step forward or what....oh yes the exploding caboose, except for the open doors was pretty much a Reading caboose.....sure was a shame to spend all that money on tooling and make nice looking junk....we could well have had a company that would mass market low cost sets and we would have the starter sets we are hollering for.....well all is not totally lost perhaps ya can find the locomotive at a yard sale for a dollar or so same goes for the flat car........ Gale Hall "Jump frog jump!" Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1165	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Re: Good message

Perhaps the person that wrote the following should be removed from the one-list. Roger JSBMLB@... wrote: > > From: JSBMLB@... > > Gale, > Your message was excellent and much more delecate than I feel! Most people > on this message board are full of shit! They complain about everything! Want > it all! and buy nothing! I will be buying a Micado! If you want S gauge then > stop running your mouth and support the manufacturers! If you can't afford it > thats certainly understandable because IT AIN'T CHEAP! But stop complaining! > Buy some HO! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1166	From: michael prell	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Re: Good message

Last time I checked, I was NOT full of the S ubsatnce that the writer described. Fat, good food, and all the rest. I'd suggest that if the author can't keep it clean, that he, or she be dropped. Go flame somewhere else. NOT HERE!!!! ---Roger Hinds <cofa@...> wrote: > > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > > Perhaps the person that wrote the following should be removed from the > one-list. > > Roger > > > JSBMLB@... wrote: > > > > From: JSBMLB@... > > > > Gale, > > Your message was excellent and much more delecate than I feel! Most people > > on this message board are full of shit! They complain about everything! Want > > it all! and buy nothing! I will be buying a Micado! If you want S gauge then > > stop running your mouth and support the manufacturers! If you can't afford it > > thats certainly understandable because IT AIN'T CHEAP! But stop complaining! > > Buy some HO! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1167	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Obnoxious message

Yes that message was obnoxious. The point, however, is not rudeness but that the past 35 years have shown that if s gaugers are going to get anything done, cooperation between folks with divergent points of view is essential. This list is an important way to further the growth of our scale, and that is what is being threatened by this rude behavior. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1168	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Re: ME

On Sat, 16 Jan 1999 20:49:45 -0800 Keith Thompson <kthompso@...> writes: >Hi Ken and Ted, >big. I'm really interested in the new GTO but I haven't seen one. Have >you guys seen the GTOs and how close to scale are they? > Stuff purchased and/or still available at Target this month 6' wide is typical full size car width. Vehicle labeled scale Width 1970 Buick GSX 1:62 5-1/2' 1960 Chev Impala 1:64 5-3/4' 1966 Pontiac GTO 5-3/4' 1957 Buick 2dr HT 5-3/4 1965 Ford PU 6' I call all of these quite acceptable. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't live there. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1169	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: cermaic villages

Hi Guy"S" ; I use ceramic villages on my layout. How do I decide which ones to use ? I go by the height of the door. If it is 1 1/4' In height then it is close enough to scale for me. Also go by quality. I look for very detailed items. My visitors realy like them. Also I got some very rustic buildings made in china. I will make a wooded swamp area to put them in. Some are ceramic. Others are made of mushrooms. "ACKkkk !!! MUSHROOMS"? Well - - - - Yahhh. Apparently the skin of the mushroom is flattened out like paper, dried and then used in crafts. I didn't find about this untill a big city museum person enlightened me on this proccess. Anyway they are very good looking buildings for "S" Boy! the things we wind up with. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1170	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Brass

Hi Again; About Brass prices. THERE IS NO NEED FOR THESE EXTREMELY HIGH PRICES. NONE WHATSOEVER! Brass in itself is a very cheap commodity. The price for making molds for brass is the same as molds for plastic. Anyone that tells you different is pulling your leg. (with razor edged barbed wire). I have worked in a machine shop that makes molds for commerical Mfgs. Same proccess same price. The only difference to the importer is shipping price. Which is due to the difference in price by weight. Which is only a few dollars per item. I just cannot believe people are naive enough to continue forking out their hard earned dollars for brass. An anology: A person working for a company ( F***K**N Mint) selling Metal cars in 1/24th scale englightened me. This company pays about $10.00 for each car. They are selling them for $ 120.00 They are made in China. So the brass locos in "S" probably cost the importer About $50.00 Anyway I know for there is a markup of 700 to 1000 percent. Importer prove me wrong. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1171	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Re: Brass

Hi Roger, You said: > Brass in itself is a very cheap commodity. The price for making molds > for brass is the same as molds for plastic. The majority of a brass model is not cast but fabricated. The reason a railroad model is made in brass is because there is not enough demand for the particular model to offset the tooling cost of the molds required to manufacture the model in plastic. Therefore, the die-cast car industry is a different animal and you can't apply your friends analogy to the model railroad brass business. With all that said, that was the original reason models were built in brass. However, today people view brass with the same regard they'd give fine jewelry. The manufacturers have realized this and now maximize the profits on their end to reflect the perceived increased value. The importer, who does a lot of the legwork getting the prototype data and footing the cost of the whole project, hardly offsets his or her costs and we bitch at them for the higher prices. Such is the nature of a free-market economy -- even if the builder is in a communist country. So, the next time you wonder why brass is so expensive, just remember it's a fish egg for some people and caviar for collectors. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Roger Hinds wrote: > > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > > Hi Again; > About Brass prices. > > THERE IS NO NEED FOR THESE EXTREMELY HIGH PRICES. NONE WHATSOEVER! > > Brass in itself is a very cheap commodity. The price for making molds > for brass is the same as molds for plastic. Anyone that tells you > different is pulling your leg. (with razor edged barbed wire). > I have worked in a machine shop that makes molds for commerical Mfgs. > Same proccess same price. > The only difference to the importer is shipping price. Which is due to > the difference in price by weight. Which is only a few dollars per item. > I just cannot believe people are naive enough to continue forking out > their hard earned dollars for brass. > > An anology: > A person working for a company ( F***K**N Mint) selling Metal cars in > 1/24th scale englightened me. This company pays about $10.00 for each > car. They are selling them for $ 120.00 They are made in China. > > So the brass locos in "S" probably cost the importer About $50.00 > > Anyway I know for there is a markup of 700 to 1000 percent. > Importer prove me wrong. > > Roger > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1172	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Digest Number 108

Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com >< Roger wrote that the Chinese skin mushrooms......... Anyone know what that would involve besides a tremendous amount of patience? Gilbert AF E units sticking: I don't believe it is magnetism so much as it is that the pawl that pushes the drum around has become a bit straight. This is from being "hammered" by hitting the top of the opening in the side frame of the E unit. This causes it to stick in the top most position. Use one finger to depress the back of the plate near the locking finger, to raise the pawl. Use small pliers (smooth jaws, no teeth to not rough up the brass pawl) to grasp the finger of the pawl and bend the finger up ever so slightly. chalres day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1173	From: John Foley	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: ZEPHYR

Hi Folks WOW!!!! BURLINGTON PIONEER ZEPHYR in S HIRAIL AC/DC & SCALE!!! ONLY $799.00 YOU GUESSED IT 3rdRAIL http://www.3rdrail.com/ John Foley Eastern VP NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1174	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Brass

In response keith's comment. "There is not much a demand for brass". Could this be because of the high price ? Duh Brass could be made in molds and detailed as cheap as plastic. If you want a highly valued loco make it out of gold or silver to justify the high price. If brass was priced close to (even $ 50 more) of the same loco in plastic I would by the brass one every time. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1175	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Exercise the nine dots!!!

WARNING THE FOLLOWING is obviously the product of toooooo much thinking but anyways..... Lets push the boundaries of the NineDots. Lets Disregard the idea that we are making trains... Lets make WIDGETS...yeah good ol' Widgets..... Following the Train (sorry) of thought re Target et al (and remember the rest of the Dayton Hudson clan) Now this is hypothesised , because quite frankly I don't know and surpising no info on their site.. Possibly more than 500 Target stores Nationwide 55 Target Greatland's assume you could push only 50 units (wiget sets) through each Targer pa and maybe 200 through a T/GL pa....thats 35000 widget sets.. Now suppose each set sold for $150 thats $5,250,000, suppose wholesale revenues to be 50% of that ....$2,625,000 Now to this humble widget dreamer these are respectable figures. Now keep in mind that these figures reflect only ONE years returns and the investment in setup is now made (how its financed for point of arguement, is irrelevant) then the following year is a gimme, now the numbers won't be the same unless you start recosmeticcing the product ( not such large expense)....etc etc Now what does all this mean.. Simply this too often we approach a problem, too singular in thought, with blinkers on,and with a negative default attitude...i.e. it is too hard, cant be done...etc etc.. Again forget that the product is a train set, IT IS just a product, with a certain potential audience...Forget about Scalers, forget about Flyers, even dare I propose forget about model railroaders....This product is a widget on rails, going around a Christmas tree threading its way amongst ceramics, belonging to people who probably have given a passing thought even to taking up the worlds best hobby, they just want to embellish their pretend town with a transport system. Now all this has only considered Target and freinds, might I suggest that figures approaching 3-4 times this are reasonable without raising tooo much of a sweat.. Now to me (and people I know who talk money) spending a million to get two million is not bad business. No one is going to convince me it would cost a million dollars to tool, make and freight these widgets. If some -one can be convinced to take a review of the market, the same way Mantua did with their collectables series, or market the way that F***K**N M**T and others do, then the world is a very different Oyster. An analogy of sorts ....a book is possibly a special release of a a preffered Author a special commodity to say a Bookstore, same book is just another title to a variety store, is just something in a box to a clearance house, is just a time on a printing press to a printer....At the end of it a book is still just a book by any cover. people will buy books for many reasons.The people who buy books do so for varying reasons. The people who might buy a Widget Set for the tree are probably not doing so for the reason we do...at the end of the day it comes down to a business decision based upon, money down for money back I believe that there is the possibility for an existing manufacturer to completely amortise his/her operation by thinking outside of the nine dots, the economies of scale that something like this offers are not available to those who make "S" Trains for "S" people. But think...a wiget that was de-detailed for the mass market ( I mean does Jane and John Doe need grabs etc) could be regurgitated into the beautiful swan of an "S" scale item. The Model Train fraternity (sorry and sisters too ) win, manufacturers win and the little fellows who live in ceramic houses win....ah George isn't it a wonderful life.. More power to the Widget Makers of the World...... :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1176	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: 336, Atlantic, switches

My 336 handles an AF track oval without half section straights just fine. In fact the oval include two switches at each end to exit and reenter the oval, plus two switches in tandem just before the one perimeter switch for access to two sidings. I mount my track with screws in every other alternating side tie (drill out with 1/8" drill). That way you can adjust to level and even pitch or bank it slightly for larger loops (those with straights between the curves). Atlantic wobble - - shouldn't be a problem. I have four - - a 303, 302 multi-cast, and two 302AC's. The only one with a trace of wobble down straights is the 303. I suspect that's because in 41 years of owning and running it, I've had to remove, and reinstall all the drivers at some point, and that was without the benefit of a quartering tool. AF Switches - - they can be a bit cantankerous, with the occasional mystery de-railment, or trailing truck upset in reverse. One thing I've found that helps is to level the frog. I use small pieces (~1/4"x3/4" strips) of sheet styrene under either the narrow or wide end of the frog whichever seems the most out of level or problematic. I experiment with strips of .010", .015", and .020" thick styrene until I find the one that works best. Slipping them in at first, then super-gluing them in once sure. I found a pack of these sheets years ago at a hobby store - - Evergreen Scale Models Sheet Styrene assortment. It's white, but I use a large black permanent marker to color them. They blend into the switch base quite well, and that way there's no paint to create unwanted resistance for the frog's movement.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1177	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: L AF

You might want to check their web site for the latest, assuming they update that before or as quickly as they issue their printed materials. Personally, I'm not holding my breath. They've got a mutiple-front war going on in O, and while perhaps not doing enough to meet our wishes, won't let AF go without the right (and handsome) price.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1178	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: 293 decay

Thanks to everyone who replied to my Cranky 293 note. I tried all your tips. They all have merit, and I'll use them in the future, but - - 1) grease build up in axle holes - - I cleaned them. 2) loose driver, or off-center axle drive gear causing more stress with the screw gear in one direction vs the other - - in fact I found a loose rear driver and replaced it. The drive gear was centered. 3) old solder can be a problem - - I re-soldered many connections, including the winding wires on the commutators. 4) double springs not recommended for small steamer motors, more luck with that in the bigger ones - - switched back to single silvers. No improvement. Then.... 5) try the armature out of another steamer - - ta dah! After all that cleaning, centering, polishing, tuning, and testing, it seems this 293's armature is simply on some sort of slippery performance degradation slope. I popped in the armature of a 343 I have as work in process, and that 293 took off, in fact it set a test track (scale .24 mile oval) lap record of under 6 seconds (most of my steamers run <7, more precisely around 6.6, with my diesels under 5 seconds). And I all did with the 343's armature was wipe it clean and clear out the gaps between the comm's. This exact same thing happened to my 303 about a year ago. No matter what I did, lap times would not get back to what they used to be (<7 seconds) and continued to be slow (8 or more seconds). At the time, I popped in the 293's armature and the 303 took off. The final cure for the 303 was a "new" used armature I purchased at York. The 303 still runs great - - now blowing the doors off the "incurable" 293. Looks like it's time to buy another armature, but if any of you have alternative answer please let me know. I'm half tempted to just rewind the 293's armature to see what happens. By the way, I also tried the original armature out of the 303 in the 293. It ran with exactly the same poor lap speeds the now fallen 293's armature produces. Also, the 343's armature has comm-to-comm resistance of 1.3 ohms, while both the 303 and 293 armatures are 1.4. I don't know if that makes any difference. Barker writes that 1-2 ohms is OK.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1179	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Re: Brass

Hi Roger, Please don't quote me out of context. I said: >The reason a >railroad model is made in brass is because there is not enough demand >for the particular model to offset the tooling cost of the molds >required to manufacture the model in plastic. The key word is "particular." To expand further, there's more demand for a GP9 than an SDL39 so the latter is destined to be only produced in brass. Since only two railroads have ever rostered the SDL39, only modelers of those two roads would be interested in the model. Certainly not enough modelers to justify a run of the 5,000 to 10,000 models required for injection molding or die casting. Now lets look at the SDL39 in HO that's been produced by Overland Models in several runs over the past few years. The first run of SDL39s were considered expensive at $250 when other HO brass diesels were available in the $180 range. Milwaukee Road modelers didn't care because it beat the heck out of scratch building. Even with the "buzz" about the model, the run of about 200 copies took about two years to sell out. That was about 1985 and I'm sure Tom Marsh was questioning his sanity as the models hugged his shelves. However, he was in control of the price and could lower the price and still make money if he HAD to move the models. Fast forward to the most recent run of HO SDL39s that cost about $600. The run of under 100 models sold out before they ever arrived here because the demand was now spread over two railroad's, the Milwaukee and the Wisconsin Central. However, Tom was now worried because the manufacturer was in control of the price until the model hit our shores and if it didn't sell, he was stuck with the models with very little margin to compensate for poor sales. Now, how does this affect the price we pay? Tom asks Ajin for fewer models because he's afraid the price of the model will scare away potential buyers but he has to ask for enough of the hand-built models to keep the price down. Catch 22. Now as for your other comment: > > Brass could be made in molds and detailed as cheap as plastic. > Sure it could, but what would be the point? You'd have to sell at least 5,000 models to offset the cost of tooling. Therefore you'd have to make a popular model like an F7 or GP7. If you made an SDL39, or any other locomotive that sold to less than ten roads, it would be business suicide. Now, why plastic instead of brass for molding? If you've got the numbers, plastic is the better choice because it molds faster and, more importantly, releases faster. Therefore, your time with an injector is shorter, cutting the cost of production. Not to mention that brass is hard on the tooling, albeit a steel mold or a rubber die pad. Roger, I'm not making this stuff up. I too used to wonder why things were done the way they were. However, working in the model railroad industry taught me an important lesson -- no matter what the scale, there are never enough customers to offset the cost of a poorly chosen prototype. This is especially true when modelers are as picky and as fickled as they are. Sorry for the slap of reality. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle. Roger Hinds wrote: > > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > > In response keith's comment. > > "There is not much a demand for brass". > > Could this be because of the high price ? Duh > > Brass could be made in molds and detailed as cheap as plastic. > > If you want a highly valued loco make it out of gold or silver to > justify the high price. > > If brass was priced close to (even $ 50 more) of the same loco in > plastic I would by the brass one every time. > > Roger > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1180	From: TerryMacE@aol.com	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: AF Semaphores

Greetings: Does anyone have any practical tips on how to get a sticky semaphore working smoothly. I know the track trips are working.....but the arm will not always raise when the first track trip is passed. This is an intermittant problem. When it occurs, I can hear the mechanism struggling to raide the arm (so I know the trip is functioning properly). I would appreciate anyone's advice on this one. On a related note, does anyone have any tips for insuring the proper placement and adjustment of the track trips. To date I have unfastened the pieces before and after the trip and that works most of the time. Thanks for your advice! Terry MacEwen

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1181	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Re: 336, Atlantic, switches

In a message dated 1/18/99 3:13:27 AM !!!First Boot!!!, David_Horn@... writes: << Atlantic wobble - - shouldn't be a problem. I have four - - a 303, 302 multi-cast, and two 302AC's. The only one with a trace of wobble down straights is the 303. I suspect that's because in 41 years of owning and running it, I've had to remove, and reinstall all the drivers at some point, and that was without the benefit of a quartering tool. >> I find that with Atlantics (or any AF steam loco for that matter..), wheel wobble is caused by one of three things. The most common is that where the wheels are not on the axels squarely. This is common after the drivers are removed and replaced for some reason. Wheels that are slightly unsquare with the axels can be repaired by gently prying with a screwdriver between the chassis and wheel, being careful not to shift the tire on the hub. Excessive cases of the wheels not being square require the wheel to be removed and pressed on correctly. Mis-Quartering will not cause wobble, but a binding condition. Second would be a tire coming loose, and shifting on the wheel hub. Loose tires should be re-secured using a little epoxy. Both of the above conditions can be easily checked by removing the side rods and spinning the front set of drivers. If there is any misalignment it will be obvious. The third cause I have found, and this applies to any loco with the feature, is the Pul-Mor tires getting out of round due to uneven deterioration. This is harder to detect, and I had a 316 that drove me nuts with wobble until I figured it out. Its more pronounced on Atlantics with Pul-Mor on the front drivers. The best hint is that the loco will wobble on straights, as well as curves. The previous two conditions will occur for the most part, only on curves. Replacement of the Pul-Mor tire is a simple fix.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1182	From: Allen Evans	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail Makes A Totally Kool Move

Wow! 3rD Rail - Making a Move with The Zephyr! http://www.3rdrail.com/s_scale.htm Totally Kool!! ====================================== John Foley wrote: > From: John Foley <foley164@...> > > >Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:23:53 -0800 > >To: S-trains > >From: John Foley <foley164@...> > >Subject: ZEPHYR > > > >Hi Folks > > > > WOW!!!! BURLINGTON PIONEER ZEPHYR in S > > HIRAIL AC/DC & SCALE!!! > > ONLY $799.00 > > YOU GUESSED IT 3rdRAIL > > http://www.3rdrail.com/ > > > > John Foley > > Eastern VP NASG > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Proto 64 web site is at: http://www.wolfenet.com/~kthompso/Proto64

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1183	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Flames of passion?

Well I guess we could take exception of the emotional language used on a recent posting but in all honesty most of have uttered similar words when we are angered. As I alluded to in one of my earlier posts, I have listened to and debated the great issues of what S needs and then listened to the many excuses why what is offered isn't acceptable. I would like to encourage us to get past this little event as we have gotten past many others at the club and national level so we can concentrate on what will bring a common good. This is after all a wonderful diversion for many of us and we should keep it fun. We will never agree on everything and this diversity is a wonderful opportunity. Imagine how boring it would be if you all built granger railroads of the late 60's, why would you visit another layout? The debate is healthy, the outcome not world shaping and if we should be angry with anyone, how about L. They must be laughing all the way to the bank when they sell items they haven't invested squat into for outrageous prices. Then again....that's only my humble opinion Ken Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1184	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Ditto and Ken Z.

Ya know for about the past 46 years we have argueed : AC vs DC, brass vs plastic, brass vs nickel silver and what S needs is a low priced set. And many fine modelers have passed in and out of this hobby.....while many have passed on....many are still alive and I can't figure why they would leave such a fine fellowship. While three of the above topics may remain a Mystery of the Ages the last one has an answer : we need cheap sets so we can squirrel them away before someone else can, and second high priced sets would cost too much to squirrel away. And yes Lionel is most likely have a good laugh.....you don't dare run the equiptment with out it going down in value 50 to 75% Ya gotta keep it in the box.....MINT. Ya know I suprised we ever found out that Erie PA lashup couldn't move itself....Someone tried to run something......Look what Lionel did with the 6464 cars make another one and you knew they would zap them up ...had to to keep the collection up hey next time let's raise the price on the guys.....or was it let's make another Katy box that ole $5.95 one has been lonely too long...how does $40 sound???????Reckon the collectors would buy a four pack of hoppers $160 has a real nice sound.....If we light it they will buy it!!!!! We buy high priced equipment and question the merits of a $43 toaster oven vs a $39 toaster oven..... Ya know a few years ago it was possible to sit down and order all the new items in S gauge for the year and spend less than $100 ....Now ya have to decide is it going to be a switcher or mmmmm say 5 cars???? Whose cars should I buy I want reefers or maybe stockcars well except for the quad hoppers I really want. For the longest time brass was stuck in time when an item came for sale for say $200 you could buy it then or wait a year or so and more than likely you could still get it for $200 and when someone parted with his 5 years later the price was still $200. It made more sense to sell off the brass and buy AF that was going through the roof in value. Hey that is another funny an S Dealer has old AF on the shelf from last year the price goes up......A Lionel dealer has AF on the shelf from last year and he discounts the price to move it out.....go figure....This makes as much sense as fishing : Ya go buy a $25,000 boat and trailer so you can see how close to the shore you can cast........ Did I skip brass vs plastic? Maybe next time... Hey you know I need 3 Mini Lindy Chevy Vegas to make a full auto rack any body got any squirreled away?????? I realize the question is very personal, but I could really use three. Gale Hall "S T E L L A"........................................Streetcar Named Desire

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1185	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Villages

Just read Roger's post, Does this mean there's a fungus among us???<G> Just spent a weekend 'Doin' Flyer'--went to a gathering of AF nuts at a fellow, rather major, collector/operator's house. Feasted my eyes on a MINT track gang (not repo!) and lots of other goodies, as well as watched some trains running around a LOT of ceramic houses! Then went to Dunsmuir to see my friend Mike's layout, and he uses ceramic houses too. I have the Daylight steamer I built for him back in the shop, it doesn't want to pull the L AF daylight cars up his main grade (he is using smaller transformers than what would be good, so stuff has to be 'in shape' to run right--I suspect I have something not just right, as it won't pull, but the armature isn't getting warm either, hmmmm) He has his oil drum loader (BTW, it's in the new catalog as a L accessory this year) running *much* slower than I run it, and seems to work fine and look more real. Has anyone found out what happens to the fragile packages after the mail car dumps the bag?? On this layout they also drop two stories! (and then another train runs over them!) I took some photos, we'll see if they turn out & if I can get them scanned in. Back to the marketing discussion; the numbers look good to me, wonder how much development time one would need, and can SHS provide that much track product? How about Venture Capitalization?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1186	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/17/1999
Subject: Ya know you are an S gauger if.......

Ya know You are an S gauger if: You still have deposits with Enhorning for GP-40's........... ya got $16 burning a hole in your pocket and ya renew to the Herald just in case................... Ya can remember when 1st place was one Enhorning diesel and 2nd place was two Enhorning diesels. Ya can remember when AF said our F units will be very realistic looking............ Ya can remember when they said Pikemaster will be similar to Atlas HO track in appearance.............. Ya don't ask what year after they say ready in June............... Ya feel S has nothing to do with sixteenths or sixty-fourths but came from a frequency of words like Slow, Seldom, Someday. Sometime. and Send 10 cents for postage to permit shipping .......... Ya can remember two day service from Branchline. Ya would have voted for Len Atkins for President............ Ya bought Ambroid snowplows from E&H for 99 cents........... Ya thought St Albans, Vermont was S gauge Capitol of the World. Ya could make a dowel resemble a Mack bulldog.......... Ya actually found something in the Nixon cataolog that wasn't marked "Discontinued"............ Ya remember terms like: Carve away everything that doesn't look like a box car............ Ya got a door prize and it was a remains of a once used decal set...... Ya still have a Liberty Models Utlimate Kit squirreled away Frankel stiil owes ya money from deposits in 1965............. Ya still think he might really make the U25B..........naw you're crazy!!!!! Ya got more trains under the layout than on it....... Ya got more in the closet than the hobby shop will ever have....... Ya spend time facing the shelves at Wal Mart looking for one more 1/64 car......... Ya thought it should be G gauge because of all the gondola kits on the market........ Ya thought Blum's Hobby House was the only building in Cleveland.... Ya thought 3/16th stove bolts and 3/16 copper tube might be usefull to have on hand......... Ya met a fellar cross town by seeing his work in the Herald...........

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1187	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: Ya know you are an S gauger if.......

They stopped publishing the Herald???? Gee, I *gotta* get out more often...... S' David D. (Who still has a "Swing & Sway the S Gauge way! This Pike Does" sign -- somewhere)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1188	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: 3rd Rail Makes A Totally Kool Move

Maybe I mised something, but I thought the on going discussion was about a steam loco, 2-8-0, etc.!!! "S", Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1189	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: BRASS

> From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > Subject: Brass > > Hi Again; > About Brass prices. > > THERE IS NO NEED FOR THESE EXTREMELY HIGH PRICES. NONE WHATSOEVER! > (SNIP) > > So the brass locos in "S" probably cost the importer About $50.00 > > Anyway I know for there is a markup of 700 to 1000 percent. > Importer prove me wrong. > > Roger > > ____ Well, based upon the above comments, I doubt that anyone could convince you of being wrong with just words of experience. So the best bet is to help you start importing brass so you can be making all that money and we can get some cheap models! ;-) Contact Mr. Baek, Han-Joong at Samhongsa Co., Seoul, Korea, Fax: 011-82-2-867-8666. He is in charge of the overseas business division, a very pleasant gentleman, and would love to hear from ya. GOOD LUCK! Bill (Co-Founder of SouthWind Models, and currently an importer of brass under the labels Greenbrier Railroad Models and B.T.S.) P.S. On to reality...... Actually, this misconception about the collector car market is easy to understand. My father, who purchased his first HO brass model in 1960, asked the same questions as he also collects the Franklin Mint cars and others. These are really nice models, working doors, steering, etc, nice paint, and selling for just over $100. Why can't they do trains the same way? They could IF the market could support runs of 10,000 or greater of a single model type decorated the same exact way. That number of modelers just isn't there. These cars are mass-produced with many parts molded in metal and plastic. Machines do much of the difficult work. The clean-up and final assembly requires people, but the skill level of these folks is below that of the brass workers. And these models do not need the engineering and components required to make it operate - they just sit on a shelf. The biggest thing to remember with brass models is that they are basically scratchbuilt one by one. Granted, the builder will construct some jigs and tools to help the process, but each wire is bent by a person, each part is soldered in place by a person, each lost-wax requires several people handling it in the process, each sheet of brass is bent, soldered, etc. by a skilled worker. The bulk of the cost of any brass model is the labor needed to create it. Study the amount of labor needed to just create lost-wax parts; many of them could never be done as a molded piece, they are much too complicated. While it can be argued that the labor cost over there is not that great, I ask that you put things in perspective and ask a talented model builder here in the U.S. to scratch build a model for you. If the response is based upon real economics, and not a love for the model or friendship with the modeler, I believe you will find that asking somone to give up six-to-eight weeks of time to build a loco model will cost you well over $1,000. Remember, he must scratchbuild it all, no cheating! Now ask him to scratch build 200 models. He will quickly realize that he needs to hire additional workers, who must also be nearly as skilled as himself, and watch what happens to the price of your model. By the way, the last quote I received from Korea for a very simple HO freight car project, a skeleton log car, put the unit cost in Korea at $55.00 each.... but that was if I purchased 1,500 units. Price went up for lesser quantities. Figure the cost of research on my part, shipping, customs, broker fees, ADVERTISING (a big expense), promotion, shipping to the dealer/customer, credit card discounts, inventory tax, insurance, and yes, I must make a profit to stay alive. The S version we imported last year cost more per unit in Korea and retailed for $129.95. You do the math. All for now, take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1190	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: reefers

Now let's look at the other side of the coin. How many eight-hatch reefers might you buy, lettered for Canadian Pacific? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1191	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Atlantic, and 293

Thanks for the wobble tips. My 303 demonstrates more of an occasional hobble or hop at full throttle on a straight, which I suspect is from very slightly off-quartering, or perhaps it is simply trying to cope with its own short wheel base at high speed. I'll take a second look for uneven pulmor wear now too. The 302's run just a fast, but more smoothly, especially the multi-cast. The original 303 armature works equally poorly in the 303 or 293. I'll try the 343's brush plate in the 293 with the now otherwise "defunct" armature and let you know what happens. Thanks for the tip. That Zephyr - - wow. Here I had my sights set on a 9900 after the basement gets refinished and my "dream" layout (mostly S, a little HO for that 433 I'd like to buy, and a loop of O) is up. But now....it' just a matter of how much of my budget do I spend on one train. Like that's anything new.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1192	From: Bill Clark	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: ZEPHYR

How similar is the Flying Yankee? Are these essentialy the same with different name plates? A Flying Yankee in S at $795 I would buy! At 05:23 PM 1/17/99 -0800, you wrote: >From: John Foley <foley164@...> > >Hi Folks > > WOW!!!! BURLINGTON PIONEER ZEPHYR in S > HIRAIL AC/DC & SCALE!!! > ONLY $799.00 > YOU GUESSED IT 3rdRAIL > http://www.3rdrail.com/ > > John Foley > Eastern VP NASG > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1193	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: S scale Zephyr

FYI, the Zephyr. The candidate with the campaign slogan of "a Zephyr on every layout" would get my vote. ---------------------- Forwarded by David Horn/VA/Best on 01/18/99 04:39 PM --------------------------- Scott Mann <sdmann@...> on 01/18/99 01:33:31 PM To: David Horn/VA/Best cc: Subject: Re: S scale Zephyr Yes, the Zephyr will negotiate 20" radius curves. The front and rear cars are powered as in the real one. This is a scale model built for HiRail and scale track. Scott At 11:41 AM 1/18/99 -0500, you wrote: >Will it negotiate AF curves (~20" radius)? Why are the tail and front >units powered? Thank you. > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1194	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: ZEPHYR

Hi Bill, The Flying Yankee is virtually identical to the three-car Pioneer Zephyr train set. I think the only difference are some very minor details like a bathroom window's size and even that may be the same depending on who you talk to. The Burlington Route Historical Society published a Burlington Bulletin, number 13, about the Shovel nose Zephyrs a few years back and it also talks briefly about the Flying Yankee. You can purchase a copy of Burlington Bulletin no. 13 at: http://www.burlingtonroute.com/biof.htm -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Bill Clark wrote: > > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > > How similar is the Flying Yankee? Are these essentialy the same with > different name plates? A Flying Yankee in S at $795 I would buy! > > At 05:23 PM 1/17/99 -0800, you wrote: > >From: John Foley <foley164@...> > > > >Hi Folks > > > > WOW!!!! BURLINGTON PIONEER ZEPHYR in S > > HIRAIL AC/DC & SCALE!!! > > ONLY $799.00 > > YOU GUESSED IT 3rdRAIL > > http://www.3rdrail.com/ > > > > John Foley > > Eastern VP NASG > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1195	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: BACHMANN "S"?

I sent a letter to Bachmann Industries asking them to consider S Scale starter sets. Their reply follows: Bachmannpr@... wrote: Dear Glenn, Although we certainly appreciate your vote of confidence, I'm sorry to report that we have no plans to produce S gauge products in the near future. At the moment, our hands are full in N, HO, O, On30 and Large Scale. Our recent expansion into On30 was undertaken specifically to appeal to collectors of holiday porcelain village collections, as well as true model railroaders. Although I would never say "never," I can't offer you any real hope for Bachmann S gauge products at this time. Again, thank you for your interest. It's nice to know that knowlegeable people like yourself are paying attention to our efforts! Yours in Railroading, Douglas C. Blaine Advertising and Public Relations Manager Bachmann Industries, Inc.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1196	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: More brass

So some of you think there is more effort in making brass locos. The Plastic importer doesn't have to advertise?, pay employees?, travel to meet the manufactures. etc.etc? I know about the lost wax process and everything else. Ok you have to heat the brass to melting temp. But plastic needs high pressure machines for the mold process. So that difference balances out. Explain how some HO mfgs can get high detail and not charge extreme prices. How about all the toys with high tech (electronic & mechanical) parts and the prices are not extreme. OK They sell in high volume. How did they get there? They met with the big dept store buyers and got them to by one way or another. (probably another). When was the last time a "S" guage marketer try it". Probably not since AC Gilbert did it. No you can't simply get them to by by asking. You have to put together a real slick, state of the art demo package. Even then you may have to resort to other means. When is the last time you saw a real good "S" layout in any kind of store for sale. Rogewr

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1197	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: INITIAL BACH-man RESPONSE

Dear BACH-Man, I appreciate you attention to detail on all the gauges you now produce. ..........Will you please offer S Scale sets especially in the starter range of less than $200........Glenn Dear Glenn, Thanks for your email. I will pass it along. The only S scale I have is an old Rex Mogul, but the new stuff I see in the magazines looks really nice. Clear tracks! the Bach-man

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1198	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Misc- Xmas is OVER ! - or- Remember the S orphans...

Ah someone has struck a chord. (musical notes follow) and the chord is 'Boo hoo, I saw an S guager standing alone...' sorry folks couldnt resist. But has a season of discontent fallen upon this fine helpful group??? I wish,they might, costs too much brass is crass, brass is all there is, and Geepers why dont they (cause we are such nice folks).... Evidently our holiday good will is gone.............!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ??????? While a newby waiting to be rebaptized by the great Flyer and then promise to trash those ole Roundhouse HO locos and scratchbuilt carz, I REMEMBER S GUAGE. Yaz I remember S guage from the 40's & 50's- Either AF with its reliability and availability or S Scale which was literally all scratch built. I remember knowing nothing about track layaing and electricity and buying via mail a scale S switch for my 4 x 8 AF layout and it came in a box with the ties loose I believe, and damn little rails that werent hollow and U had to assemble the frog et al and I had never heard of a track guage or a switch machine. It finally worked after HOURS of fiddling. And the real die hards had S outside third rail. try that for kicks, I think that it may have originated in England. S was ALWAYS an orphan, was ALWAYS scratchbuilt for the serious MRR, AF was its (temporary) savior, AF is gooooooone. bottom line to all this verbage, this post and past grumblings- We KNEW what we were getting into, a scale with minimal support, with some advantages, and one of em was NOT choice and selection off the shelf. Gotta count our blessings folks? Decent size, choice of high or scale rail, TWO two TWO rails not 3, Gargraves still in business, couplea suppliers making nice steam locos on occasion... and even cars yet already with genuine real style couplers! Yee hah! Life's a choice. Grumbling dont assist in that/those choices. Believe the grumbling site is alt. grumble.advanced.grrrrrr ? just a civil servant- sometimes. L. Potential S orphan (havent gotten my unrunning eBay purchase yet...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1199	From: Andy Hornback	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Wanted: AF RoadBed

'lo... I'm kinda new around here, but I'm on a mission... my dad has commissioned me to find some roadbed for his new AF layout. I've been searching the net for the better part of the afternoon, and I can't really find anything like what he's looking for. He needs the old style roadbed (the big rubber stuff) that works with the old style AF track. Most of what I've seen on the net is cork, etc. Anyway, if anyone can help us find some roadbed, it'd be much appreciated. It doesn't matter what color it is, as he's going to be painting it all, etc. Thanks, --- Andy "The night sky has always been a mystery to us. Hell, heaven is supposed to be out there somewhere, along with aliens, comets, black holes, pulsars, quasars, blue novas, and, with any luck, Captain Kirk and the _Enterprise_ protecting us from the Klingons." -- Jimmy Buffett, _A Pirate Looks at Fifty_

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1200	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Zepher order

I want one! I also want the extra car. I tried to order on your site yesterday, but the order button on the S page generates an error. I want to support this project? What do I need to do? Also, I will distribute any info you can supply to my local AF club. Thanks, Daniel PS: Remember, I will buy the 2-8-2 if it handles 24" curves, or maybe even if only 27" curves.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1201	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: - Remember the S orphans...

Hmmm, I think my computer played that a little flat.....<G> Well, some of this is grumbling, but much of it is interesting speculation on what *might* be possible if, what we believe to be the ideal gauge/scale, caught the 'big time' stores. Actually, what's out there now is, I suspect, close to the way it was in the late '50s, right after the 'big time'. There is soo much neat stuff, and in many ways we are close to becoming a viable RTR scale--in fact, we are RTR, just have to get the units made numbers up so the cost per unit can come down a bit more to meet the 'casual buyer' market. The concept thought, has to be thoroughly worked out. One thing that killed Gilbert was hastily made products that had quality problems (mostly this happened under Warther's watch). Not to pick on anyone, and this is based on my personal experience only, but AM makes such beautiful looking heavyweights, and then puts cheap plastic frames and trucks under then with couplers that have lift levers that tend to get caught in the switch frogs and broken off. Rugged couplers are out there, the old AF design w/ minor tweaking will do fine (unless you want scale!). Die cast trucks w/correct side play aren't that hard to create either! The trick to that Ceramic village market (and even Bachmann doesn't understand this!) is rugged, foolproof equipment that also is realistic (to scale), stuff w/ a bit of 'heft' to it. The heft helps running & staying on track, AND is equated w/quality in the casual buyer's mind. Extra added on detail that is easily broken off is not needed, and is a negative factor in this market. Those who want it, and can take care of it, can easily add it (especially if you sell it too!) Easily replaced light bulbs are important too!!! Now the above is not whining on my part, but criteria for a great product, IMHO, and provided as positive information--and maybe wishful thinking too. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1202	From: Alex Randall	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Wanted: AF RoadBed

Hey, I am looking for the same stuff. 15 straight and 22 curved sections of rubber roadbed for the AF track. I bought a lot at shows for $1.50 per piece and it is in catalogs news for $2.50. So if anyone has rubber roadbed, there is clearly a market. Alex@... >From: "Andy Hornback" <hornback@...> > > 'lo... I'm kinda new around here, but I'm on a mission... my dad has >commissioned me to find some roadbed for his new AF layout. I've been >searching the net for the better part of the afternoon, and I can't really >find anything like what he's looking for. He needs the old style roadbed >(the big rubber stuff) that works with the old style AF track.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1203	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: Wanted: AF RoadBed

Andy: You might try Rick Johnson in Calif. He carries reproduction rubber road bed like your Dad remembers. It is all black (No grey available). Address: Rick Johnson 19333 Sturgess Drive Torrance, CA 90503 Phone: 310-371-3887 I gotta ask...why is he going to paint it? Good luck with your quest. Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1204	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: AF Switches

In reply to the S Gauger who inserts plastic shims under switch frogs........A friend showed me recently a cause (though maybe not the only one) of a wobbly switch frog. Look at the copper spring washer on the pivot pin that holds the frog. You need to re-tension that washer. Tap out the frog pivot pin from the bottom (it's held in place by friction), take off the washer, and bend the four "fins" that are springs, back down to an angle Over years of use, that washer has probably been bent flat. It needs to operate like a spring to keep everything tight. Put everything back together, and chances are, you will find that the frog is much more snug. I tried this. No more derailments through the switches I worked on, no more bumping sounds...just smooth operation. AC Gilbert's engineers were geniuses with these turnouts. They hardly EVER wear out! The only delicate parts are the rails, and you can replace old rails with new. Don't complain.....TRAIN Steve Pendleton bestofbreed@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1205	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Orphans,Ceramics and Mice

Fellow Essers I also agree its not so much grumbling but more wishing for that elusive 5c cigar. The secret as David alludes to is really the KISS maxim, you know Keep it Simple Stupid. This does not necessarily mean INNACURATE just simple. The purchasers of trainsets for Villages aren't Model Railroaders (probably) to them it is like buying a toaster oven (probably Microwave these days), just want to plug it in and turn it on, see it run...aint it puuuurty. If Bachmann can get an 2-6-0 in On3 around those curves a 2-8-0 in "S" must be a shoe-in. The arguements for the engineering of said item have already been talked about, cut a little slack to the drive train and the TOY TRAIN will run. Why did I say "toy train" because that is what it is to Joe Public...we see it as a C-9 (that'd be nice eh Art) or this or that , but it is just a train to Mr & Mrs Average.Leave the details off they don't care, the door is then open to detail it to your hearts desire, opportunity for another entry in the after sales market!! Gee the public would probably rather see antlers on the smoke box than care wheter its worthington, superheated or a compound. What has to happen is someone preferably already in the industry (and "S" cos they're such lovely folks) needs to make a QUANTUM shift in perspective and get into Widgets (see previous) its just another commodity. At the risk of sounding like a broken record record. A manufacturer has to stop thinking train and think UNITS, get the maths right and the rest will follow. (I'm sorry I forgot whose posting it was) Someone mentioned M A R K E T I N G..., HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. You have to box clever, strike a chord with the buying public. Listen to them...hell do a survey...someone stand in Macy's or TARGET or Walmart even and ask people what they would buy and for how much. From a productiond standpoint...if ERTL doesn't want the market, buy their tooling cheap( or lease it) and present a GP35 complete with Reindeer in the gondola and a Santa on the caboose...give the public a bit of Hollywood smaltz, have a boxcar playing Jingle bells, Silent Night or I'll be home for Christmas with Bing hanging out the Cab window. Personally I couldn't care if the Pass cars are shorty versions...if they're cheap I'll buy a few and kitbash them, whose got the old REX dies, might be a suitable Steamer Body amongst them for the purpose.(given the once or twice over) If a manufacturer can get a little lateral here, there is a door to a rather large market here . Bachmann knows it, but they aren't the only dudes in town...they're just bloody clever...Think about it...who would have bought Bachmann five years ago, and boy did they re-invent themselves. Even Athearn has changed its stripes. I would love to see an established manufacturer in "S" take this and run with it, market it under a different name if you don't wish to pollute "the scale or HiRail image"...but hey a toy manufacturer would be well placed to do it also, already has the network and such established, just another item to sell for them. Kinda makes me wish I had half a mill to play with and I suppose that is really the hard bit, but where there is a will, there is a way. Do the sums right and get the spiel happening and it can happen. As mentioned by another, the whole kit and caboodle needs to be SOLD to the chains. I can't help thinking that if say 50000 sets were bought and only 1% took up the hobby (mind boggles if 5% got interested)...what if 100000 sets were sold....... all those newbies, and "S" scalers to boot.... fresh, enthusiastic . All those kids asking if they cant set the trainset up,please dad,please. What if these were made by established "S" manufacturer and included an offer in the box to drastically discounted items of a selected nature, or a magazine offered maybe a cheaper six month once off "try it" type subscription....( or both) sure a lot of what ifs....but nothing ventured nothing gained. Oh yeah Mice. A mouse is little but scares an elephant.....you don't have to be big to be effective...just clever :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1206	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: You know You are an S gauger if:

Dave Engle sent these in to me today, we go way back to the set up letters for the Herald, NASG start up and circuit letters.....his blood is Rock Island red.......... You know you are an S gauger if: You kick yourself for getting only one instead of getting all three from Danylak...... You still visit some with the only other charter Herald subscriber from your home state................Mike Porter You remember Christmas Morning when the couplers on that train had gold colored weights on the sides of the couplers.......... Mecca was a basement at 4148 Federer Place. St Louis, Mo and Heaven was at 900 N. Washington St, Valparaiso, Indiana and getting there by train was half the fun. Bring home an 8X casting of a proposed roller bearing cap was the frosting on the cake, after getting to run the first S scale RS-1....... You are alone in a crowd at an NMRA Convention..... Ya have an exhilerating experience seeing three different S scale CGW 2-10-4's Ya were given a box of pairs of prepainted metal side to take home with you.......Thanks Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1207	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: You know....

If you still have your "Lifetime" Membership Card to the NASG If you opened up a box of color coded sticks intending to end up with a steel freight car. Ken

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1208	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 109

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/bachmann/mainpage/start2.html --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. On 18 Jan 1999 11:11:52 -000 S-Trains wrote: > >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > >There are 18 messages in this issue. > >Topics in today's digest: > > 1. Brass > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > 2. Re: Brass > From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...> > 3. Digest Number 108 > From: "Charles L. Day" <DayOne@...> > 4. ZEPHYR > From: John Foley <foley164@...> > 5. Brass > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > 6. Exercise the nine dots!!! > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > 7. 336, Atlantic, switches > From: David_Horn@... > 8. L AF > From: David_Horn@... > 9. 293 decay > From: David_Horn@... > 10. Re: Brass > From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...> > 11. AF Semaphores > From: TerryMacE@... > 12. Re: 336, Atlantic, switches > From: Trains16@... > 13. 3rd Rail Makes A Totally Kool Move > From: Allen Evans <alevans@...> > 14. Flames of passion? > From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...> > 15. Ditto and Ken Z. > From: "Gale Hall" <gale_hall@...> > 16. Villages > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > 17. Ya know you are an S gauger if....... > From: "Gale Hall" <gale_hall@...> > 18. Re: Ya know you are an S gauger if....... > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 14:36:24 -0800 > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> >Subject: Brass > >Hi Again; > About Brass prices. > >THERE IS NO NEED FOR THESE EXTREMELY HIGH PRICES. NONE WHATSOEVER! > >Brass in itself is a very cheap commodity. The price for making molds >for brass is the same as molds for plastic. Anyone that tells you >different is pulling your leg. (with razor edged barbed wire). > I have worked in a machine shop that makes molds for commerical Mfgs. >Same proccess same price. > The only difference to the importer is shipping price. Which is due to >the difference in price by weight. Which is only a few dollars per item. > I just cannot believe people are naive enough to continue forking out >their hard earned dollars for brass. > > An anology: > A person working for a company ( F***K**N Mint) selling Metal cars in >1/24th scale englightened me. This company pays about $10.00 for each >car. They are selling them for $ 120.00 They are made in China. > > > So the brass locos in "S" probably cost the importer About $50.00 > >Anyway I know for there is a markup of 700 to 1000 percent. >Importer prove me wrong. > >Roger > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 11:03:29 -0800 > From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...> >Subject: Re: Brass > >Hi Roger, > >You said: > >> Brass in itself is a very cheap commodity. The price for making molds >> for brass is the same as molds for plastic. > >The majority of a brass model is not cast but fabricated. The reason a >railroad model is made in brass is because there is not enough demand >for the particular model to offset the tooling cost of the molds >required to manufacture the model in plastic. Therefore, the die-cast >car industry is a different animal and you can't apply your friends >analogy to the model railroad brass business. > >With all that said, that was the original reason models were built in >brass. However, today people view brass with the same regard they'd give >fine jewelry. The manufacturers have realized this and now maximize the >profits on their end to reflect the perceived increased value. The >importer, who does a lot of the legwork getting the prototype data and >footing the cost of the whole project, hardly offsets his or her costs >and we bitch at them for the higher prices. Such is the nature of a >free-market economy -- even if the builder is in a communist country. > >So, the next time you wonder why brass is so expensive, just remember >it's a fish egg for some people and caviar for collectors. -- Keith >Thompson in Seattle > >Roger Hinds wrote: >> >> From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> >> >> Hi Again; >> About Brass prices. >> >> THERE IS NO NEED FOR THESE EXTREMELY HIGH PRICES. NONE WHATSOEVER! >> >> Brass in itself is a very cheap commodity. The price for making molds >> for brass is the same as molds for plastic. Anyone that tells you >> different is pulling your leg. (with razor edged barbed wire). >> I have worked in a machine shop that makes molds for commerical Mfgs. >> Same proccess same price. >> The only difference to the importer is shipping price. Which is due to >> the difference in price by weight. Which is only a few dollars per item. >> I just cannot believe people are naive enough to continue forking out >> their hard earned dollars for brass. >> >> An anology: >> A person working for a company ( F***K**N Mint) selling Metal cars in >> 1/24th scale englightened me. This company pays about $10.00 for each >> car. They are selling them for $ 120.00 They are made in China. >> >> So the brass locos in "S" probably cost the importer About $50.00 >> >> Anyway I know for there is a markup of 700 to 1000 percent. >> Importer prove me wrong. >> >> Roger >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:06:45 -0500 > From: "Charles L. Day" <DayOne@...> >Subject: Digest Number 108 > >Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com >>< > >Roger wrote that the Chinese skin mushrooms......... Anyone know what that >would involve besides a tremendous amount of patience? > >Gilbert AF E units sticking: > >I don't believe it is magnetism so much as it is that the pawl that pushes >the drum around has become a bit straight. This is from being "hammered" by >hitting the top of the opening in the side frame of the E unit. This causes >it to stick in the top most position. > >Use one finger to depress the back of the plate near the locking finger, to >raise the pawl. Use small pliers (smooth jaws, no teeth to not rough up the >brass pawl) to grasp the finger of the pawl and bend the finger up ever so >slightly. > >chalres day > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:23:53 -0800 > From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: ZEPHYR > >Hi Folks > > WOW!!!! BURLINGTON PIONEER ZEPHYR in S > HIRAIL AC/DC & SCALE!!! > ONLY $799.00 > YOU GUESSED IT 3rdRAIL > http://www.3rdrail.com/ > > John Foley > Eastern VP NASG > > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:36:43 -0800 > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> >Subject: Brass > >In response keith's comment. > >"There is not much a demand for brass". > >Could this be because of the high price ? Duh > >Brass could be made in molds and detailed as cheap as plastic. > > If you want a highly valued loco make it out of gold or silver to >justify the high price. > >If brass was priced close to (even $ 50 more) of the same loco in >plastic I would by the brass one every time. > >Roger > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:30:47 +1000 > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> >Subject: Exercise the nine dots!!! > >WARNING THE FOLLOWING is obviously the product of toooooo much thinking but >anyways..... > >Lets push the boundaries of the NineDots. > >Lets Disregard the idea that we are making trains... > >Lets make WIDGETS...yeah good ol' Widgets..... > >Following the Train (sorry) of thought re Target et al (and remember the rest of >the Dayton Hudson clan) > >Now this is hypothesised , because quite frankly I don't know and surpising no >info on their site.. > >Possibly more than 500 Target stores Nationwide > >55 Target Greatland's > >assume you could push only 50 units (wiget sets) through each Targer pa and >maybe 200 through a T/GL pa....thats 35000 widget sets.. Now suppose each set >sold for $150 thats $5,250,000, suppose wholesale revenues to be 50% of that >....$2,625,000 > >Now to this humble widget dreamer these are respectable figures. Now keep in >mind that these figures reflect only ONE years returns and the investment in >setup is now made (how its financed for point of arguement, is irrelevant) then >the following year is a gimme, now the numbers won't be the same unless you >start recosmeticcing the product ( not such large expense)....etc etc > >Now what does all this mean.. Simply this too often we approach a problem, too >singular in thought, with blinkers on,and with a negative default >attitude...i.e. it is too hard, cant be done...etc etc.. > >Again forget that the product is a train set, IT IS just a product, with a >certain potential audience...Forget about Scalers, forget about Flyers, even >dare I propose forget about model railroaders....This product is a widget on >rails, going around a Christmas tree threading its way amongst ceramics, >belonging to people who probably have given a passing thought even to taking up >the worlds best hobby, they just want to embellish their pretend town with a >transport system. > >Now all this has only considered Target and freinds, might I suggest that >figures approaching 3-4 times this are reasonable without raising tooo much of >a sweat.. > >Now to me (and people I know who talk money) spending a million to get two >million is not bad business. No one is going to convince me it would cost a >million dollars to tool, make and freight these widgets. > >If some -one can be convinced to take a review of the market, the same way >Mantua did with their collectables series, or market the way that F***K**N M**T >and others do, then the world is a very different Oyster. > >An analogy of sorts ....a book is possibly a special release of a a preffered >Author a special commodity to say a Bookstore, same book is just another title >to a variety store, is just something in a box to a clearance house, is just a >time on a printing press to a printer....At the end of it a book is still just a >book by any cover. people will buy books for many reasons.The people who buy >books do so for varying reasons. The people who might buy a Widget Set for the >tree are probably not doing so for the reason we do...at the end of the day it >comes down to a business decision based upon, money down for money back > >I believe that there is the possibility for an existing manufacturer to >completely amortise his/her operation by thinking outside of the nine dots, the >economies of scale that something like this offers are not available to those >who make "S" Trains for "S" people. But think...a wiget that was de-detailed for >the mass market ( I mean does Jane and John Doe need grabs etc) could be >regurgitated into the beautiful swan of an "S" scale item. The Model Train >fraternity (sorry and sisters too ) win, manufacturers win and the little >fellows who live in ceramic houses win....ah George isn't it a wonderful life.. > >More power to the Widget Makers of the World...... > > >:-)) Richard > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 21:56:00 -0500 > From: David_Horn@... >Subject: 336, Atlantic, switches > >My 336 handles an AF track oval without half section straights just fine. >In fact the oval include two switches at each end to exit and reenter the >oval, plus two switches in tandem just before the one perimeter switch for >access to two sidings. I mount my track with screws in every other >alternating side tie (drill out with 1/8" drill). That way you can adjust >to level and even pitch or bank it slightly for larger loops (those with >straights between the curves). > >Atlantic wobble - - shouldn't be a problem. I have four - - a 303, 302 >multi-cast, and two 302AC's. The only one with a trace of wobble down >straights is the 303. I suspect that's because in 41 years of owning and >running it, I've had to remove, and reinstall all the drivers at some >point, and that was without the benefit of a quartering tool. > >AF Switches - - they can be a bit cantankerous, with the occasional mystery >de-railment, or trailing truck upset in reverse. One thing I've found that >helps is to level the frog. I use small pieces (~1/4"x3/4" strips) of >sheet styrene under either the narrow or wide end of the frog whichever >seems the most out of level or problematic. I experiment with strips of >.010", .015", and .020" thick styrene until I find the one that works best. >Slipping them in at first, then super-gluing them in once sure. I found a >pack of these sheets years ago at a hobby store - - Evergreen Scale Models >Sheet Styrene assortment. It's white, but I use a large black permanent >marker to color them. They blend into the switch base quite well, and that >way there's no paint to create unwanted resistance for the frog's movement. > > > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:09:57 -0500 > From: David_Horn@... >Subject: L AF > >You might want to check their web site for the latest, assuming they update >that before or as quickly as they issue their printed materials. >Personally, I'm not holding my breath. They've got a mutiple-front war >going on in O, and while perhaps not doing enough to meet our wishes, won't >let AF go without the right (and handsome) price. > > > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 9 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:31:00 -0500 > From: David_Horn@... >Subject: 293 decay > >Thanks to everyone who replied to my Cranky 293 note. I tried all your >tips. They all have merit, and I'll use them in the future, but - - >1) grease build up in axle holes - - I cleaned them. >2) loose driver, or off-center axle drive gear causing more stress with the >screw gear in one direction vs the other - - in fact I found a loose rear >driver and replaced it. The drive gear was centered. >3) old solder can be a problem - - I re-soldered many connections, >including the winding wires on the commutators. >4) double springs not recommended for small steamer motors, more luck with >that in the bigger ones - - switched back to single silvers. >No improvement. Then.... >5) try the armature out of another steamer - - ta dah! > >After all that cleaning, centering, polishing, tuning, and testing, it >seems this 293's armature is simply on some sort of slippery performance >degradation slope. I popped in the armature of a 343 I have as work in >process, and that 293 took off, in fact it set a test track (scale .24 mile >oval) lap record of under 6 seconds (most of my steamers run <7, more >precisely around 6.6, with my diesels under 5 seconds). And I all did with >the 343's armature was wipe it clean and clear out the gaps between the >comm's. > >This exact same thing happened to my 303 about a year ago. No matter what >I did, lap times would not get back to what they used to be (<7 seconds) >and continued to be slow (8 or more seconds). At the time, I popped in the >293's armature and the 303 took off. The final cure for the 303 was a >"new" used armature I purchased at York. The 303 still runs great - - now >blowing the doors off the "incurable" 293. Looks like it's time to buy >another armature, but if any of you have alternative answer please let me >know. I'm half tempted to just rewind the 293's armature to see what >happens. > >By the way, I also tried the original armature out of the 303 in the 293. >It ran with exactly the same poor lap speeds the now fallen 293's armature >produces. Also, the 343's armature has comm-to-comm resistance of 1.3 >ohms, while both the 303 and 293 armatures are 1.4. I don't know if that >makes any difference. Barker writes that 1-2 ohms is OK. > > > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 10 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:19:24 -0800 > From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...> >Subject: Re: Brass > >Hi Roger, > >Please don't quote me out of context. I said: > >>The reason a >>railroad model is made in brass is because there is not enough demand >>for the particular model to offset the tooling cost of the molds >>required to manufacture the model in plastic. > >The key word is "particular." To expand further, there's more demand for >a GP9 than an SDL39 so the latter is destined to be only produced in >brass. Since only two railroads have ever rostered the SDL39, only >modelers of those two roads would be interested in the model. Certainly >not enough modelers to justify a run of the 5,000 to 10,000 models >required for injection molding or die casting. > >Now lets look at the SDL39 in HO that's been produced by Overland Models >in several runs over the past few years. The first run of SDL39s were >considered expensive at $250 when other HO brass diesels were available >in the $180 range. Milwaukee Road modelers didn't care because it beat >the heck out of scratch building. Even with the "buzz" about the model, >the run of about 200 copies took about two years to sell out. That was >about 1985 and I'm sure Tom Marsh was questioning his sanity as the >models hugged his shelves. However, he was in control of the price and >could lower the price and still make money if he HAD to move the models. > >Fast forward to the most recent run of HO SDL39s that cost about $600. >The run of under 100 models sold out before they ever arrived here >because the demand was now spread over two railroad's, the Milwaukee and >the Wisconsin Central. However, Tom was now worried because the >manufacturer was in control of the price until the model hit our shores >and if it didn't sell, he was stuck with the models with very little >margin to compensate for poor sales. Now, how does this affect the price >we pay? > >Tom asks Ajin for fewer models because he's afraid the price of the >model will scare away potential buyers but he has to ask for enough of >the hand-built models to keep the price down. Catch 22. > >Now as for your other comment: >> >> Brass could be made in molds and detailed as cheap as plastic. >> >Sure it could, but what would be the point? You'd have to sell at least >5,000 models to offset the cost of tooling. Therefore you'd have to make >a popular model like an F7 or GP7. If you made an SDL39, or any other >locomotive that sold to less than ten roads, it would be business >suicide. > >Now, why plastic instead of brass for molding? If you've got the >numbers, plastic is the better choice because it molds faster and, more >importantly, releases faster. Therefore, your time with an injector is >shorter, cutting the cost of production. Not to mention that brass is >hard on the tooling, albeit a steel mold or a rubber die pad. > >Roger, I'm not making this stuff up. I too used to wonder why things >were done the way they were. However, working in the model railroad >industry taught me an important lesson -- no matter what the scale, >there are never enough customers to offset the cost of a poorly chosen >prototype. This is especially true when modelers are as picky and as >fickled as they are. Sorry for the slap of reality. -- Keith Thompson in >Seattle. > > >Roger Hinds wrote: >> >> From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> >> >> In response keith's comment. >> >> "There is not much a demand for brass". >> >> Could this be because of the high price ? Duh >> >> Brass could be made in molds and detailed as cheap as plastic. >> >> If you want a highly valued loco make it out of gold or silver to >> justify the high price. >> >> If brass was priced close to (even $ 50 more) of the same loco in >> plastic I would by the brass one every time. >> >> Roger >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 11 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:11:26 EST > From: TerryMacE@... >Subject: AF Semaphores > >Greetings: > >Does anyone have any practical tips on how to get a sticky semaphore working >smoothly. I know the track trips are working.....but the arm will not always >raise when the first track trip is passed. This is an intermittant problem. >When it occurs, I can hear the mechanism struggling to raide the arm (so I >know the trip is functioning properly). I would appreciate anyone's advice on >this one. > >On a related note, does anyone have any tips for insuring the proper placement >and adjustment of the track trips. To date I have unfastened the pieces before >and after the trip and that works most of the time. > >Thanks for your advice! > >Terry MacEwen > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 12 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:22:14 EST > From: Trains16@... >Subject: Re: 336, Atlantic, switches > >In a message dated 1/18/99 3:13:27 AM !!!First Boot!!!, >David_Horn@... writes: > ><< Atlantic wobble - - shouldn't be a problem. I have four - - a 303, 302 > multi-cast, and two 302AC's. The only one with a trace of wobble down > straights is the 303. I suspect that's because in 41 years of owning and > running it, I've had to remove, and reinstall all the drivers at some > point, and that was without the benefit of a quartering tool. >> > >I find that with Atlantics (or any AF steam loco for that matter..), wheel >wobble is caused by one of three things. The most common is that where the >wheels are not on the axels squarely. This is common after the drivers are >removed and replaced for some reason. Wheels that are slightly unsquare with >the axels can be repaired by gently prying with a screwdriver between the >chassis and wheel, being careful not to shift the tire on the hub. Excessive >cases of the wheels not being square require the wheel to be removed and >pressed on correctly. Mis-Quartering will not cause wobble, but a binding >condition. Second would be a tire coming loose, and shifting on the wheel hub. >Loose tires should be re-secured using a little epoxy. Both of the above >conditions can be easily checked by removing the side rods and spinning the >front set of drivers. If there is any misalignment it will be obvious. The >third cause I have found, and this applies to any loco with the feature, is >the Pul-Mor tires getting out of round due to uneven deterioration. This is >harder to detect, and I had a 316 that drove me nuts with wobble until I >figured it out. Its more pronounced on Atlantics with Pul-Mor on the front >drivers. The best hint is that the loco will wobble on straights, as well as >curves. The previous two conditions will occur for the most part, only on >curves. Replacement of the Pul-Mor tire is a simple fix. > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 13 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:57:45 -0600 > From: Allen Evans <alevans@...> >Subject: 3rd Rail Makes A Totally Kool Move > >Wow! 3rD Rail - Making a Move with The Zephyr! > >http://www.3rdrail.com/s_scale.htm > >Totally Kool!! > > > >====================================== >John Foley wrote: > >> From: John Foley <foley164@...> >> >> >Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 17:23:53 -0800 >> >To: S-trains >> >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >> >Subject: ZEPHYR >> > >> >Hi Folks >> > >> > WOW!!!! BURLINGTON PIONEER ZEPHYR in S >> > HIRAIL AC/DC & SCALE!!! >> > ONLY $799.00 >> > YOU GUESSED IT 3rdRAIL >> > http://www.3rdrail.com/ >> > >> > John Foley >> > Eastern VP NASG >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> The Proto 64 web site is at: http://www.wolfenet.com/~kthompso/Proto64 > > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 14 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:39:29 -0600 > From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...> >Subject: Flames of passion? > >Well I guess we could take exception of the emotional language used on a >recent posting but in all honesty most of have uttered similar words >when we are angered. As I alluded to in one of my earlier posts, I have >listened to and debated the great issues of what S needs and then >listened to the many excuses why what is offered isn't acceptable. I >would like to encourage us to get past this little event as we have >gotten past many others at the club and national level so we can >concentrate on what will bring a common good. This is after all a >wonderful diversion for many of us and we should keep it fun. We will >never agree on everything and this diversity is a wonderful >opportunity. Imagine how boring it would be if you all built granger >railroads of the late 60's, why would you visit another layout? The >debate is healthy, the outcome not world shaping and if we should be >angry with anyone, how about L. They must be laughing all the way to >the bank when they sell items they haven't invested squat into for >outrageous prices. Then again....that's only my humble opinion >Ken Z. > > > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 15 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 22:43:47 PST > From: "Gale Hall" <gale_hall@...> >Subject: Ditto and Ken Z. > > > > >Ya know for about the past 46 years we have argueed : AC vs DC, brass >vs plastic, brass vs nickel silver and what S needs is a low priced set. >And many fine modelers have passed in and out of this hobby.....while >many have passed on....many are still alive and I can't figure why they >would leave such a fine fellowship. While three of the above topics may >remain a Mystery of the Ages the last one has an answer : we need cheap >sets so we can squirrel them away before someone else can, and second >high priced sets would cost too much to squirrel away. > >And yes Lionel is most likely have a good laugh.....you don't dare run >the equiptment with out it going down in value 50 to 75% Ya gotta keep >it in the box.....MINT. Ya know I suprised we ever found out that Erie >PA lashup couldn't move itself....Someone tried to run >something......Look what Lionel did with the 6464 cars make another one >and you knew they would zap them up ...had to to keep the collection up >hey next time let's raise the price on the guys.....or was it let's make >another Katy box that ole $5.95 one has been lonely too long...how does >$40 sound???????Reckon the collectors would buy a four pack of hoppers >$160 has a real nice sound.....If we light it they will buy it!!!!! > >We buy high priced equipment and question the merits of a $43 toaster >oven vs a $39 toaster oven..... > >Ya know a few years ago it was possible to sit down and order all the >new items in S gauge for the year and spend less than $100 ....Now ya >have to decide is it going to be a switcher or mmmmm say 5 cars???? >Whose cars should I buy I want reefers or maybe stockcars well except >for the quad hoppers I really want. > >For the longest time brass was stuck in time when an item came for sale >for say $200 you could buy it then or wait a year or so and more than >likely you could still get it for $200 and when someone parted with his >5 years later the price was still $200. It made more sense to sell off >the brass and buy AF that was going through the roof in value. > >Hey that is another funny an S Dealer has old AF on the shelf from last >year the price goes up......A Lionel dealer has AF on the shelf from >last year and he discounts the price to move it out.....go >figure....This makes as much sense as fishing : Ya go buy a $25,000 >boat and trailer so you can see how close to the shore you can >cast........ > >Did I skip brass vs plastic? Maybe next time... > >Hey you know I need 3 Mini Lindy Chevy Vegas to make a full auto rack >any body got any squirreled away?????? I realize the question is very >personal, but I could really use three. > >Gale Hall > > >"S T E L L A"........................................Streetcar Named >Desire > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 16 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:06:40 -0800 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> >Subject: Villages > >Just read Roger's post, Does this mean there's a fungus among us???<G> >Just spent a weekend 'Doin' Flyer'--went to a gathering of AF nuts at a >fellow, rather major, collector/operator's house. Feasted my eyes on a MINT >track gang (not repo!) and lots of other goodies, as well as watched some >trains running around a LOT of ceramic houses! Then went to Dunsmuir to see >my friend Mike's layout, and he uses ceramic houses too. I have the >Daylight steamer I built for him back in the shop, it doesn't want to pull >the L AF daylight cars up his main grade (he is using smaller transformers >than what would be good, so stuff has to be 'in shape' to run right--I >suspect I have something not just right, as it won't pull, but the armature >isn't getting warm either, hmmmm) He has his oil drum loader (BTW, it's in >the new catalog as a L accessory this year) running *much* slower than I run >it, and seems to work fine and look more real. Has anyone found out what >happens to the fragile packages after the mail car dumps the bag?? On this >layout they also drop two stories! (and then another train runs over them!) >I took some photos, we'll see if they turn out & if I can get them scanned >in. > Back to the marketing discussion; the numbers look good to me, wonder >how much development time one would need, and can SHS provide that much >track product? How about Venture Capitalization?? >S' >David D. > > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 17 > Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 23:46:10 PST > From: "Gale Hall" <gale_hall@...> >Subject: Ya know you are an S gauger if....... > > >Ya know You are an S gauger if: > >You still have deposits with Enhorning for GP-40's........... > >ya got $16 burning a hole in your pocket and ya renew to the Herald just >in case................... > >Ya can remember when 1st place was one Enhorning diesel and 2nd place >was two Enhorning diesels. > >Ya can remember when AF said our F units will be very realistic >looking............ > >Ya can remember when they said Pikemaster will be similar to Atlas HO >track in appearance.............. > >Ya don't ask what year after they say ready in June............... > >Ya feel S has nothing to do with sixteenths or sixty-fourths but came >from a frequency of words like Slow, Seldom, Someday. Sometime. and Send >10 cents for postage to permit shipping .......... > >Ya can remember two day service from Branchline. > >Ya would have voted for Len Atkins for President............ > >Ya bought Ambroid snowplows from E&H for 99 cents........... > >Ya thought St Albans, Vermont was S gauge Capitol of the World. > >Ya could make a dowel resemble a Mack bulldog.......... > >Ya actually found something in the Nixon cataolog that wasn't marked >"Discontinued"............ > >Ya remember terms like: Carve away everything that doesn't look like a >box car............ > >Ya got a door prize and it was a remains of a once used decal set...... > >Ya still have a Liberty Models Utlimate Kit squirreled away > >Frankel stiil owes ya money from deposits in 1965............. > >Ya still think he might really make the U25B..........naw you're >crazy!!!!! > >Ya got more trains under the layout than on it....... > >Ya got more in the closet than the hobby shop will ever have....... > >Ya spend time facing the shelves at Wal Mart looking for one more 1/64 >car......... > >Ya thought it should be G gauge because of all the gondola kits on the >market........ > >Ya thought Blum's Hobby House was the only building in Cleveland.... > >Ya thought 3/16th stove bolts and 3/16 copper tube might be usefull to >have on hand......... > >Ya met a fellar cross town by seeing his work in the Herald........... > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 18 > Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 00:43:39 -0800 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> >Subject: Re: Ya know you are an S gauger if....... > >They stopped publishing the Herald???? >Gee, I *gotta* get out more often...... >S' >David D. >(Who still has a "Swing & Sway the S Gauge way! This Pike Does" sign -- >somewhere) > > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ >_______________________________________________________________________________ > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1209	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Sorry!

I'm sorry for my most recent message. I was trying to delete the subject line and somehow (and I still haven't figured out how) it sent my message which echoed the prior digest. Monty -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1210	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Bachmann/Department 56 Alliance A Myth?

Department 56 is apparently a big player in the field of ceramic collectible Christmas villages so I visited their web site ( http://www.department56.com ) to fnd out more about the Bachmann On30 trains. Curiously, I could find no mention of Bachmann's trains. So I visited Bachmann's web site ( http://www.bachmanntrains.com/bachmann/mainpage/start2.html ) and although they mention ceramic villages, they didn't mention Department 56. I guess I was misled by the conversations in rec.collecting.villages that would lead one to believe the two companies were allied. So... If a S-scale "goes great with ceramic villages" train set were produced, it might well find shelf space in stores selling Department 56 products. Monty --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1211	From: Gf3897@aol.com	Date: 1/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 109

Concerning a listing advertising a piece of equipment for "only" $799.00..........my belief was that when the word "only" preceded a price, it was somewhat of a bargain....thinking that I was mistaken all these years, I proceeded to my dictionary for the correct meaning; sure enough, the word "merely' was used to define it.....I'm sorry, but for me $799.00 is not congruent with "merely" when listing the price of a model railroad loco.....maybe its time for me to find a less expensive hobby....does anyone else agree, or have I become, how do you say......cheap!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1212	From: PatnDave	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 109

ALL RIGHT ALREADY!!! ENOUGH!... I'm getting tired of reading about this! Are people like you trying to bring an end to brass so NO ONE can have any if you can't? SHEEZ! -----Original Message----- From: Gf3897@... <Gf3897@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Tuesday, January 19, 1999 2:34 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Digest Number 109 >From: Gf3897@... > >Concerning a listing advertising a piece of equipment for "only" >$799.00..........my belief was that when the word "only" preceded a price, it >was somewhat of a bargain....thinking that I was mistaken all these years, I >proceeded to my dictionary for the correct meaning; sure enough, the word >"merely' was used to define it.....I'm sorry, but for me $799.00 is not >congruent with "merely" when listing the price of a model railroad >loco.....maybe its time for me to find a less expensive hobby....does anyone >else agree, or have I become, how do you say......cheap!! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1213	From: Bill Clark	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: What price for a brass Zepher (Flying Yankee??)

At 02:34 AM 1/19/99 EST, you wrote: >From: Gf3897@... > >Concerning a listing advertising a piece of equipment for "only" >$799.00..........my belief was that when the word "only" preceded a price, it >was somewhat of a bargain.... For sure this is all relative. And relative to what I've seen in other scales, and given the small market for S brass, $795 is certainly reasonable. More than reasonable! Scott seeems to be giving us a real shot at some great stuff, and I for one love it! Thanks, Scott! (How about a mogul?) Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1214	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Wanted: AF roadbed

He needs the old style roadbed (the big rubber stuff) that works with the old style AF track. If you're relatively close to Cincinnati, check out the March GATTS. At Greenburg in December, several guys were selling roadbed. I was surprised because usually there is none available. Also, somebody had some up on EBAY last week. Watch your per section price though, because EBay can get out of control if you're not careful. Good luck Mac Forty is the old age of youth, fifty the youth of old age.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1215	From: PatnDave	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: ZEPHYR

No complaining here, just surprised and confused. Where did this Zephyr thing come from? All the talk of 3rd Rail's 2-8-2 offer then the request for suggestions of a modern diesel from 3rd Rail and.......presto - a Zephyr????? What'd I miss? Nice but, no thank you. Dave -----Original Message----- From: John Foley <foley164@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Sunday, January 17, 1999 5:44 PM Subject: [S-Trains] ZEPHYR >From: John Foley <foley164@...> > >Hi Folks > > WOW!!!! BURLINGTON PIONEER ZEPHYR in S > HIRAIL AC/DC & SCALE!!! > ONLY $799.00 > YOU GUESSED IT 3rdRAIL > http://www.3rdrail.com/ > > John Foley > Eastern VP NASG > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1216	From: Theodore Fabian	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: An Opinion You can Use, or Discard..

as one with a recent, and somewhat casual interest in model railroads, and S-Trains, a few months ago when I found an old train, and was looking for advice on new trains, I found this mailing list.. at the beginning it was informative and interesting.. and the volume of mail on the list was small.. since that time, the volume of mail has grown considerably (in my opinion), but the lack of interesting content in the messages hasn't.. since I feel somewhat like an outsider here, with a basic interest, but not one that gets (or lets) itself carried away, I feel compelled ask if it's really necessary to send messages that 1) argue minute details of track specifications 2) detail store names and prices of MatchBox / HotWheels cars (or the like) 3) repeatedly ask for survey information 4) advertise for business (for yourself or others) and more to the list?? I'm not trying to be a "net policeman", or to take over the list control, ownership, editorial content, or anything like that.. but given prior experiences with other non-train related lists, I believe that the quickest way to kill a list, and to make it less than useful is to inundate it with non-essential information.. may I suggest 1) for the routine stuff, create an FAQ page on the web somewhere, and send a mail message to the list once a month, or put the address in the footer.. something simple without much explanation.. eg. S-TRAIN FAQ at http://s-trainlist.com/faq nothing more.. simple, no clutter.. 2) for the detailed discussions that only interest a few, take the messages out of the list and send separate, private messages.. 3) for stuff that's regionalized, eg. where to get detailed models in Iowa, spell that out in the subject line, so someone can filter on it and discard it automatically.. maybe include the words "REGIONAL INTEREST" in the subject.. otherwise the "signal to noise" ratio of the mailing list will get too high, and the folks with a casual interest (like me) will drop off the list.. and that's unproductive if you folks really are trying to raise interest in S-Trains.. I welcome comments or opinions, but please, in the interest of the "S-Train" list, only post those that are really relevant.. otherwise send them to me directly and spare the bandwidth of others.. Ted --------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, Ted Fabian NASA Lewis Research Center Cleveland, Ohio 44135 tfabian@... theodore.fabian@... http://glenn.lerc.nasa.gov/ted.htm get my pgp public key at http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6EEB86CD Disclaimer: My opinions are My Own, Not NASA's.... ---------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1217	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: an opinion I can discard

Ted: they don't make a lot of vehicles in 1:64. We've had to chase 'em down for years. No true s gauger can pass by a toystore without looking for s sized cars and trucks. It's just about a reflex by now. Therefore, news of good vehicles is welcome. I for one plan to hit toysrus today with a couple of these postings in my pocket. Dig? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1218	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 109

The reality is that $799 will appeal to some and not to others; similarly it will fit the pocketbook of some and not of others. Two years ago when I modeled only in N scale, I put such offers in the unreasonable category. Having said that I purchased 3 brass steam locos in N because they fit my road, and while more than plastic in terms of cost, I was pleased they were available and there was no option in N plastic. Having moved over to S a while back, two things have happened: - my price bars have been moved up -- let's face it S is generally more expensive than N for a number of reasons such as more detail, more materials, lower volumes, etc. - my realization that S has even fewer plastic rolling stock/loco options than N. And as a result, for locos, if I want some of them I'll have to acquire them in brass. As for the Zephyr -- I'm really grateful for 3rd Rail offering it. Particularly since I'm interested in the Maine Central and BAR, and thus I'll have a model very close to the Flying Yankee, which is just amazing to me. As for the price, based on what Flying Yankee's in brass have been priced in other scales, I believe $799 is very fair. Thanks Scott & 3rd Rail! Michael At 02:34 AM 1/19/99 -0500, Gf3897@... wrote: >From: Gf3897@... > >Concerning a listing advertising a piece of equipment for "only" >$799.00..........my belief was that when the word "only" preceded a price, it >was somewhat of a bargain....thinking that I was mistaken all these years, I >proceeded to my dictionary for the correct meaning; sure enough, the word >"merely' was used to define it.....I'm sorry, but for me $799.00 is not >congruent with "merely" when listing the price of a model railroad >loco.....maybe its time for me to find a less expensive hobby....does anyone >else agree, or have I become, how do you say......cheap!! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - >http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1219	From: Allen Evans	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Why Things Are The Way They Are

Theodore, sounds like you want to see regulation and order in this newsgroup, and I can see your point. Allot of the info passing around seems going every which way and often centering on minutia. But based on the fact that this group is small, and most of us are enthusiasts with much volition attached to our convictions, it is apparent that parsing the e-mail traffic is not going to produce any quantum factors of improvement. Allow me to explain: There are many facets of model railroading, and S scale is continually faced with only rare opportunities for materials and talent that no matter how trivial they may seem, they are important. Why? Because this information helps to produce and expand the S Scale knowledge base, and the influence S scale has on us and others. When opportunities arise, there is with little doubt, a wave of interest and enthusiasm beyond the likes of what may be seen in almost any other gauge. S Scalers apparently are willing to take any and all they can get to promote their interests for anyone willing to listen. So I ask that you bear with what appears to be apparent chaos, but in reality is far, far from that. The NASG is a brotherhood/sisterhood and this newsgroup is their "party". And things have never been better since this newsgroup and its sister, PROTO64 started. What you see here is an on-line celebration of S-Scale, nothing less. Respectfully, Allen Evans, Covington, Louisiana ================================================ Theodore Fabian wrote: > From: Theodore Fabian <Theodore.Fabian@...> > as one with a recent, and somewhat casual interest in model railroads, and > S-Trains, a few months ago when I found an old train, and was looking for > advice on new trains, I found this mailing list.. at the beginning it was > informative and interesting.. and the volume of mail on the list was small.. > > since that time, the volume of mail has grown considerably (in my opinion), > but the lack of interesting content in the messages hasn't.. > > since I feel somewhat like an outsider here, with a basic interest, but not > one that gets (or lets) itself carried away, I feel compelled ask if it's > really necessary to send messages that > > 1) argue minute details of track specifications > > 2) detail store names and prices of MatchBox / HotWheels cars (or the like) > > 3) repeatedly ask for survey information > > 4) advertise for business (for yourself or others) > > and more to the list?? > > I'm not trying to be a "net policeman", or to take over the list control, > ownership, editorial content, or anything like that.. but given prior > experiences with other non-train related lists, I believe that the quickest > way to kill a list, and to make it less than useful is to inundate it with > non-essential information.. > > may I suggest > > 1) for the routine stuff, create an FAQ page on the web somewhere, and > send a mail message to the list once a month, or put the address in the > footer.. something simple without much explanation.. eg. > > S-TRAIN FAQ at http://s-trainlist.com/faq > > nothing more.. simple, no clutter.. > > 2) for the detailed discussions that only interest a few, take the > messages out of the list and send separate, private messages.. > > 3) for stuff that's regionalized, eg. where to get detailed models in > Iowa, spell that out in the subject line, so someone can filter on it and > discard it automatically.. maybe include the words "REGIONAL INTEREST" in > the subject.. > > otherwise the "signal to noise" ratio of the mailing list will get too > high, and the folks with a casual interest (like me) will drop off the > list.. and that's unproductive if you folks really are trying to raise > interest in > S-Trains.. > > I welcome comments or opinions, but please, in the interest of the > "S-Train" list, only post those that are really relevant.. otherwise send > them to me directly and spare the bandwidth of others.. > > Ted > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks, > Ted Fabian NASA Lewis Research Center > Cleveland, Ohio 44135 > > tfabian@... > theodore.fabian@... > http://glenn.lerc.nasa.gov/ted.htm > > get my pgp public key at > > http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6EEB86CD > > Disclaimer: My opinions are My Own, Not NASA's.... > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1220	From: busy-boy	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Gauge X

Dear Fellow Essenes: Not since the Dead Sea Scrolls have I heard so much kvetching. For those of you who feel that $750 is too much to pay for a 3 car set of Zephyrs with 2 power units, hand built in brass; will you be buying at least one pair of "chicken-wire" F-3's from SHS? This A-B unit is $500 in plastic. Add one plastic passenger car to that and you're now at about $565 and it still has only one powered unit. Hello? Frankly, I think 5 bills is a little high, but I guess Don can justify his own costs to us. Dept. 56 is not the only manufacturer of ceramic and porcelain villages. They are simply the ones with the highest quality control and prices. Go to http://www.department56.com and look at their new stuff for 1999. There is a Lionel train store complete with signs and window displays in the "Snow Village" collection. These are the larger houses which scale out at around 1/48, give or take. In the accessories for Snow Village, check out "Couldn't Wait Until Christmas", a tableau of a little boy getting a Lionel train set as Dad holds the orange and blue set box under his arm. Cool. These figures scale out closer to 1/32 or 1/24. Just look at them next to your collectible cars of that scale. Christmas in the City, and most of the rest of the villages by D-56, are cast porcelain and are scaled smaller than Snow Village. Measurements of doorways and story height scale these at about 1/64th. New England Village and North Pole come in a little smaller. However, old NE homes ARE smaller with lower ceilings than modern day structures and the North Pole houses were built for elves! Because of the flexible scale of the various ceramic village items, all types of trains are used with them. Dept. 56 themselves have marketed a Bachmann made HO set (with 2 or 3 variations), a trolley whose body is larger than "S" scale by a bit, but which runs on HO track, and each year, a single freight car made by Lionel in 027, with a steam engine to follow next year. There are also numerous cast ceramic train models made by D-56 to accompany their various train stations. Interestingly, D-56's origins are with a company called Bachman. I don't know if there is a connection to the Bachmann trains we know today. We are the minority gauge, although, in the hierarchies of minority-ism, I would place us at least one rung above 0n3 (a bizarre choice by the Bachmann folks). As the minority, we will NEVER get the respect we deserve. We will ALWAYS hear a "but" coming after a compliment. We MUST be our own judges and keep our own counsel. As the minority, we must DEMAND proportional representation in all organizations and publications which deal with the hobby as a whole, while continuing to publish and organize within the boundaries of our special interest. It is foolish to propose grandiose business endeavors without the knowledge or capital to back them up. When I see speculative numbers of 100,000 S-gauge sets sold to citizens for ceramic village use, I am incredulous. It all starts to sound like a Mickey Rooney/Judy Garland movie. "Hey, nobody's using the old barn, and Mom's got those old draperies we could use, why . . . we could put the show on right here!" I have been working on the idea of putting out a village train for at least seven years. One of D-56's largest department store retailers, who sets up trains with the houses on elaborate layouts every Christmas, was not interested in an AM/SHS heavyweight set pulled by a reconditioned AF Atlantic in a lovely boxed set with their name on it, even when I was offering it at about $25 over cost. This project was fraught with production problems including the fragility of the passenger cars and their propensity to lose their wheelsets during shipping. Regular customers will return the whole set for that! Atlantics, picked up at York and other shows for about $50, needed brushes and springs, new wiring, new smoke units and electronic reverse units plus a repaint decalling and lettering. K-Line track had to be bought, and I needed repro track clips and locks. Boxes with artwork and a UV coating were a FORTUNE, even without die-cutting, and I would need a minimum order of 5000 units. I was hoping to start with just 100 units! The retailer informed me that they sell fewer than 30 trainsets of the Lionels each year, in spite of their huge display. Now guess what the big seller was this year. New Bright Industries Holiday Express in G-scale was a sell-out. The set comes in a gorgeous box with gold leaf lettering, is highly detailed, filled with electronics (sounds and light displays) and mechanical animations. It retailed for $249 but sold for $199. In the words of rap star M.C. Hammer: "Can't Touch This!" Interestingly, New Bright makes a smaller set specifically designed to go with ceramic villages. Called "The Village Express" it has an overall size falling between HO and S with a track gauge just a fraction wider than S. Maybe New Bright might be amenable to making an S gauge toy train. They have the technology and the infrastructure is in place. Who wants to go see them and do the requisite sales job with facts and figures and proposed sales numbers? It's a business, so you've got to do your homework, including knowing their sales figures and costs, their market and the toy market as well as your proposed new market, coupled with a sales strategy to reach same. Volunteers? As a minority member, I guess I am just too accustomed to fish heads and cold rice. I never did sit at Massa's table, but thanks to Don and Ron and Russ and some others, I am at a moveable feast with my own kind. I don't ever expect to crush the last piece of three-rail track in my hand as the S-scale golden spike is driven, uniting the world forever under our banner. I am happy to co-exist while always pushing for a little more. That is probably why I am not so militant as some of our brothers. I don't get all feisty when a diesel comes on the market without representing my favorite roadname. And I sure don't get all upset and refuse to buy it when it cones out in the right roadname but not with the exact markings for that particular engine. Every minority has people who demand their right to a T and others like me who are grateful to get along. So this last word is for the folks at 3rd. Rail. Thank you. We won't let you down. We know that if we buy these offerings you'll make others. We know you will be smart enough in the future to ask what we want and wise enough to glean real information from the resultant grumblings. Knowing that your market here bridges the gap between accomplished scalers who will pay dear prices but are very picky about types and roadnames and such, and hi-railers who like to have one of every kind of thing, but can't blow the whole budget on one item, you will try to keep the offerings high in quality but within economic reach. And did I say thank you? I did, but it bears repeating. Yes, we know we are a market force, but it takes forward thinking companies to gamble considerable resources on what, to them, is an unknown. I had a dream, that one day I would run trains of every color and description on a layout that ran from the deep blue sea to the purple mountains majesty. Whenever a new manufacturer comes on board, I get closer . . . we all get closer, to living that dream. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1221	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Interesting things for sale

Howdy Friends Just posted more S and Sn3 stuff to the web site. http://www.btsrr.com/btsodd01.htm Some interesting and rare pieces have appeared! Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1222	From: John Foley	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Correction

Hi Folks The Zephry is not $799 it is $759, Hirail AC/DC Scale. Sorry about the confusion my mistake. About the Zephyr, I was taken by surprised by their decision to do the Zephyr. I found out about it by checking their website. I also think it is a good choice. About the steamer I recommended a small steamer [0-8-0 2-8-0] we put it out on the s-list to see what S gaugers wanted. Based on the info they got back THEY decided to do the 2-8-2. I did tell them that American Models will more then likely do it based on their 4-6-2. and I hope they do. And I DO NOT own any stock in 3rd Rail. The engine that I would like to see them build is the NYC/CUT P1a electric. That is the one I was bugging them for, maybe someday. I promote all of S gauge [AF, Hirail, Scale and Sn3] when I do the many trains show that I set up the NASG table. I have sold more of the NASG AF cars at these shows, except of course Doug Peck the NASG AF car committee chairmen. So I plan on working and promoting all manufactureres of S gauge items new and old. This is the way S gauge will grow. So folks I say that if something new comes out, Buy it if you want it don't if you don't. Everybody's Friend I hope John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1223	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Opinions are good!

Hi Ted, Have patience, I've been here since before Paul took the reins, list volume goes up and down, especially up after Christmas, nearly dead in summer! Some of us are very passionate about our trains (Who, me????) and yes, some semi-private discussion occurs, and some "gee, doesn't *everyone* know that:" questions occur--which reinforces the fact that not everyone *knows* that! A FAQ is a good idea, don't know how much work it would make for Paul, though. I read the posts about brass, find it interesting, though unless I win the lottery, I doubt I'll ever buy one ($700 buys a lot of 'junker' flyer for me to restore!) and I believe the very existence of it shows the scale is healthy and growing (if the brass sells, someone else will think about gambling their production money on S!). And for the esoteric posts, I'm still waiting to hear more about the armature swap--is it worn worm gear, bearings, or insulation break-down that doesn't show on an ohm meter reading, or ???--inquiring S minds want to know! You mention you're new here, hang a while and see what happens, and you won't find a more helpful bunch, with a very strong tendency to NOT flame anyone, no matter how outlandish their posts may be (I am probably one of the 'out there' guys too--I do a lot of dreaming--if that lottery ticket ever came in, I'd be talking to China or wherever about holiday trains the next day, I was poor before, I can be poor afterwards too!). If you need help on anything with your trains, just ask this crowd, you will be showered with assistance. BTW, now is the time to mention the advice I was given on how to make a small fortune in the toy train business: Start with a LARGE fortune. S'incerely, David Dewey (AF S gauger since the late '50s)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1224	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Correction

Very interesting that you should mention the NYC/CUT P-motors. I really like that loco. Rode behind it many times. I always thought this would be a good model for LTI to produce, since they could power it with the same mechanism as their other locos. Am now in the beginning stages of kitbashing ? a Flyer sort of version. I plan to use Flyer PA motors and the starting point for the body will be either 2 Flyer or 2 Lionel crane cab bodies (have both on hand). The starting point for the end platforms may be Flyer late caboose floors. Will paint it in a late scheme and use the Microscale HO cigar band decals. The sticking point right now is what to use for power truck sideframes. Am hoping to fing some 0 gauge truck frames or something, but may have to scratchbuild them. Of course, it won't approach a scale model; the power trucks and end platforms will swivel and it won't be super accurately detailed, but it hopefully will capture some of the look and feel of the original. Should get my passenger trains to Harmon, anyway. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1225	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 109

I see your point. But when I look at my $799.00 2-8-0 from Southwind, with its beautiful detail, from and rear lights, cab interior with crew, smooth motor, and then compare it with what Lionel has offered over the years and the price they ask, well, "only" seems justified. Speaking only for myself, I am thankful that steamers that can handle the AF track are available at any price. AND I wish they cost less. -Daniel >From: Gf3897@... > >Concerning a listing advertising a piece of equipment for "only" >$799.00..........my belief was that when the word "only" preceded a price, it >was somewhat of a bargain....thinking that I was mistaken all these years, I >proceeded to my dictionary for the correct meaning; sure enough, the word >"merely' was used to define it.....I'm sorry, but for me $799.00 is not >congruent with "merely" when listing the price of a model railroad >loco.....maybe its time for me to find a less expensive hobby....does anyone >else agree, or have I become, how do you say......cheap!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1226	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: ZEPHYR

The Zepher does not replace the 2-8-0. Both items are listed as coming late this year on their web site. >From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...> > >No complaining here, just surprised and confused. Where did this Zephyr >thing come from? All the talk of 3rd Rail's 2-8-2 offer then the request for >suggestions of a modern diesel from 3rd Rail and.......presto - a >Zephyr????? What'd I miss? >Nice but, no thank you. > Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1227	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Correction

Tom Gee, this sounds interesting, hope you'll post some photos of the project! Now if LTI wanted a NEW loco cheap, they could do some E unit shells on the Alco chassis w/ new sideframes....... (Wouldn't hurt if they'd redo the power pickup assembly too--wipers on the wheels and insulated axles would cut way down on bearing 'wear') S' David D

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1228	From: John E. Dalton	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Inappropriate message

Paul, I certainly agree with Roger's suggestion. That is an example of totally inappropriate behavior on the list. It does not serve anyone's best interests. John Message: 21 Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 13:19:28 -0800 From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> Subject: Re: Good message Perhaps the person that wrote the following should be removed from the one-list. Roger JSBMLB@... wrote: > > From: JSBMLB@... > > Gale, > Your message was excellent and much more delecate than I feel! Most people > on this message board are full of shit! They complain about everything! Want > it all! and buy nothing! I will be buying a Micado! If you want S gauge then > stop running your mouth and support the manufacturers! If you can't afford it > thats certainly understandable because IT AIN'T CHEAP! But stop complaining! > Buy some HO! >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1229	From: Boul, Lawrence	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 110

Roger wrote: > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 19:40:38 -0800 > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > Subject: More brass > > So some of you think there is more effort in making brass locos. > > The Plastic importer doesn't have to advertise?, pay employees?, travel > to meet the manufactures. etc.etc? > > I know about the lost wax process and everything else. Ok you have to > heat the brass to melting temp. But plastic needs high pressure machines > for the mold process. So that difference balances out. > > Explain how some HO mfgs can get high detail and not charge extreme > prices. How about all the toys with high tech (electronic & mechanical) > parts and the prices are not extreme. > > OK They sell in high volume. How did they get there? They met with the > big dept store buyers and got them to by one way or another. (probably > another). > When was the last time a "S" guage marketer try it". Probably not > since AC Gilbert did it. > No you can't simply get them to by by asking. > You have to put together a real slick, state of the art demo package. > Even then you may have to resort to other means. > > When is the last time you saw a real good "S" layout in any kind of > store for sale. > > Rogewr > I seriously doubt you do have a grasp of the relative difference betwen lost wax casting and injection moulding and the difference between soldering together hundreds of brass parts and glueing/welding a few plastic bits. As one who manufactures brass kits I have to say I agree with Bill Wade in principle. You are right that Cheap high volumes of S could be produced in plastic. But only if a manufacturer can be bothered. I put it to you that from a Bachmann point of view converting half the HO modellers to S would be counter productive. From my own viewpoint NOT having plenty of cheap plastic models in S is a major attraction to the scale. Lawrence

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1230	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: An Opinion You can Use, or Discard..

Theodore Fabian wrote: > > From: Theodore Fabian <Theodore.Fabian@...> > > as one with a recent, and somewhat casual interest in model railroads, and > S-Trains, a few months ago when I found an old train, and was looking for > advice on new trains, I found this mailing list.. at the beginning it was > informative and interesting.. and the volume of mail on the list was small.. > > since that time, the volume of mail has grown considerably (in my opinion), > but the lack of interesting content in the messages hasn't.. > > since I feel somewhat like an outsider here, with a basic interest, but not > one that gets (or lets) itself carried away, I feel compelled ask if it's > really necessary to send messages that > > 1) argue minute details of track specifications > > 2) detail store names and prices of MatchBox / HotWheels cars (or the like) > > 3) repeatedly ask for survey information > > 4) advertise for business (for yourself or others) > > and more to the list?? > > I'm not trying to be a "net policeman", or to take over the list control, > ownership, editorial content, or anything like that.. but given prior > experiences with other non-train related lists, I believe that the quickest > way to kill a list, and to make it less than useful is to inundate it with > non-essential information.. > > may I suggest > > 1) for the routine stuff, create an FAQ page on the web somewhere, and > send a mail message to the list once a month, or put the address in the > footer.. something simple without much explanation.. eg. > > S-TRAIN FAQ at http://s-trainlist.com/faq > > nothing more.. simple, no clutter.. > > 2) for the detailed discussions that only interest a few, take the > messages out of the list and send separate, private messages.. > > 3) for stuff that's regionalized, eg. where to get detailed models in > Iowa, spell that out in the subject line, so someone can filter on it and > discard it automatically.. maybe include the words "REGIONAL INTEREST" in > the subject.. > > otherwise the "signal to noise" ratio of the mailing list will get too > high, and the folks with a casual interest (like me) will drop off the > list.. and that's unproductive if you folks really are trying to raise > interest in > S-Trains.. > > I welcome comments or opinions, but please, in the interest of the > "S-Train" list, only post those that are really relevant.. otherwise send > them to me directly and spare the bandwidth of others.. > > Ted > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks, > Ted Fabian NASA Lewis Research Center > Cleveland, Ohio 44135 > > tfabian@... > theodore.fabian@... > http://glenn.lerc.nasa.gov/ted.htm > > get my pgp public key at > > http://pgpkeys.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6EEB86CD > > Disclaimer: My opinions are My Own, Not NASA's.... > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm I agree 100%..getting 44 messages in a 24 hour period is really reaching the absurd level. Lets try and get this list to be used only for things that would interest everyone on the list and not the banter back and forth we seem to be getting. I enjoy "S" gauge but I am seriously thinking of deleting my name from this list. When I joined I hoped to get useful information but now..the useful is far and few between. Thanks and comments welcome..Ben

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1231	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 110

To anyone that I may have upset in my asking whether I was being unrealistic toward what I perceived to be a "high" price.....i sincerely aplogize to all...i have never received such an amount of degrading/derogatory mail for merely expresssing an opinion/opening a matter fro discussion....... It is with regret that I must ask to be removed from this list...I thank all that have responded to my questions for help in the past; I have learned a great deal from reading the questions/responses of others and will surely miss the trading of ideas that I have seen rise from time to time; however, I cannot justify the reponses I received for a mere opinion,,, thank you

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1232	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 110

GF: Hey, you didn't offend me. We all have opinions. I'm sorry if fellow page-users mailed you with unkind comments. Maybe we are getting out of hand here. Come on guys, it's suppossed to be information and idea exchange. What happened to "Model Railroading is Fun"? Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1233	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Some Guidelines

There are now 350 members on this list. Please try to limit your messages to a maximum of one per day. When responding to S-Trains, please do not use the 'Reply' button because it often includes the entire original e-mail text. Instead create a 'new' message and address it to s-trains@onelist.com. Write directly to the person when you want to have an in-depth discussion. If you don't like the language or attitude of a list member, send them a note (or me). It may just be a 'slip' or a misunderstanding. Maybe the 'S-Trains Message Board' is a better place for some of these 'detailed' and 'interactive' discussions. http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb19857 'Buying and Selling' on the list is acceptable as long as the notes are kept short and infrequent. I would prefer a link to a web page rather than a price list in the e-mail. Thanks -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1234	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Dorothy on Guage X etc

May I indulge a little more ???? Ceramic Village Train Sets, has I fell become an interesting string of thoughts. The potential ramifications are boggling "busy boy" raises some intersting points. "S" representation !!!! Might I suggest we aim for grossly DIS-proportional representation.. If we settle for "our share"....then the gurgler may be in sight!!! "S" modellers must be some of the most enterprising model railroaders around (by necessity)...why keep it a secret Chris , may I respectively suggest that the answer to your dillemma regarding convincing the store to take up you idea was that it dealt in "non new" merchandise?? An answer lies else-where in your posting...i.e. that the Bright Boy product was a sellout. The job of some enterprising oufit is to figure out exactly why!!Yes maybe they (new bright) are a prospect, or some-one similar. I have a preference for some outfit with "S" in their blood to be at the healm here, but if not them then.......I would like to think that the result of such an enterprise would be the securing of financial staus for this company (long live S ) and the ability to sink some of this new found cash reserve into further products and the reduction of prices (see I'm not really silly)...at the same time to grow the business and radically embellish the numbers in "S" scale.More the merrier and cheaper locos and rolling stock. In the mean time my hat is off to all those involved in manufacturing in this Scale (must be quite a few sleepless nights had by some. This industry must surely be proof that the dollar profit motive is not the only reason for business, some people must actually do things for the enjoyment ....sort of like having FUN.....(must like ulcers, headaches and stress though) Grandiose, Incredulous....No I seriously don't think so ( mind you to me the glass is always half full!!)...100000 was an extrapolation (possible maybe more than plausible) 35-50 Thousand is I feel extremely realistic. I only wish we had access to Bachmann, New Bright...DEPT 56 sales figures. Who amongst us is privelidged??? Keep in mind many things are accomplished simply becuase we don't know that it can't be done. There is a mob here in Melbourne who believe it or not are selling sand to Saudi Arabia ( I Kid you not) Correct me where I'm wrong here )those of you better placed and informed) but a million bucks is NOT a large amount of money in the Department/Chain/ Store world of retailing...sure a lot to you and me ,especially if you don't have it...and it was a hefty figure even ten years ago, but not today...its only about 25-30 times the average salary Last I looked the population of North America was around 300 Million. May I re-iterate the potential audience is not Model Railway Land but Consumersville. It is not a S-Gauge Train Set so much as a Ceramice Village accessory...just happens to ride around on rails and is proportioned at 1:64 (lucky for us eh??) I bet if you looked into it, there are more Mickey Rooney/Judy Garland videos sold than S Guage train Sets (of any description) I could find no mention of the "Village Express" by New Bright at the CHARLES RO web site, would be interested in more details. I'm quite happy to contact them with a precis of our discussions and a more polished proposal for their consideration. Would like some input here..interested parties may email me direct. I've got a bat and a ball...who wants to play??? I'm having fun.....:-)) Richard ps can any point me to stats for Number of Target/walmart/and any other similar outfits..thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1235	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Guidelines

I appreciate the guidelines and the discussion the led to them. My 2 cents worth: I have been enjoying the chatter. I have no interest in ceramic villages, but, so what? I can delete without reading if I don't want to be bothered. At the same time, reading some of this has expanded my horizons. I've only been here a month, I've learned a lot, and enjoyed it immensely. -Daniel

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1236	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: (no subject)

lets not all get bent out of shape over the S word, in fact, many of us AF people have our heads up in the clouds from time to time, best to ignore some one who has his head up his .......

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1237	From: John Foley	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: P1a

Message: 13 Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:46:12 -0500 (EST) From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) Subject: Re: Correction Very interesting that you should mention the NYC/CUT P-motors. I really like that loco. Rode behind it many times. I always thought this would be a good model for LTI to produce, since they could power it with the same mechanism as their other locos. Am now in the beginning stages of kitbashing ? a Flyer sort of version. I plan to use Flyer PA motors and the starting point for the body will be either 2 Flyer or 2 Lionel crane cab bodies (have both on hand). The starting point for the end platforms may be Flyer late caboose floors. Will paint it in a late scheme and use the Microscale HO cigar band decals. The sticking point right now is what to use for power truck sideframes. Am hoping to fing some 0 gauge truck frames or something, but may have to scratchbuild them. Of course, it won't approach a scale model; the power trucks and end platforms will swivel and it won't be super accurately detailed, but it hopefully will capture some of the look and feel of the original. Should get my passenger trains to Harmon, anyway. Tom Jarcho Tom Sounds very interesting. I am thinking of doing one. As for the frame. power and trucks I plan on using the bottom half of a AM GG-1. If you have photo's of both compare them. To me they look very much alike. Let us know what you think. Your ideas for the body are great, thanks for sharing them. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1238	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 108 Subject: demagnetizing reverse units

The question was: "Did anyone ever have any luck demagnetizing sticky reverse units with a tape recorder head demagnetizer? I don't understand why this magneticization happens." (I don't either) "I thought that with A.C., the direction of the magnetic field changes as the direction of the current changes, and thus things like reverse units and armature poles should not become magnetized. Is this correct?" (In theory, but then why a demagnitizer for the tape heads, an ac signal) "I have found that with most of my reverse units that stick at high voltage, a hit of low voltage seems to release them. Could the lower voltage be demagnetizing the plate?" (No to this idea, a higher voltage produces a higher magnetic field) The answer is NO. I just tried it this weekend without success. Other methods worked in tandem. It seems the brass pall wears and with the additional freedom of motion occasionally sticks. Grabbing the frame with a pair of pump pliers right in front of the coil and gently squeezing will eliminate the sticking. However, it also induces a horrible ac hum. This is eliminated by converting the coil input to dc, by a Radio Shack 50-V, 1-ampere bridge rectifier, with a small capacitor in parallel with the coil. Crude, but it works. Now to get a replacement reversing switch for my transformer, which burned out while testing the thing before the above repair. Alan Udy, RMHR, Idaho Falls ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1239	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Diesel costing

Afternoon all Re Diesels What are the tooling costs for for a small to medium size detailing such as SW9..GP9 or GP35...I'm talking body only...anyone know??? :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1240	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Ideas

Well I am in for a Zephyr though I can't really explain why. I think it will be a terrific addition to my stuff. Besides we need to get this project completed so Third Rail can get on to the SD-45 or the U33C. 8-) (had to make this point, the SD45 conspiracy guy is out of town.) Can't speak much for the magic car technique mentioned but I know that River Raisin has done a great job bringing in unique cars in brass. Jettie is offering some little flat car with lots of trucks that must be neat although it looks like a toy to me. Come on over to run the trains and watch a consist pass that contains the well center flat, Airslides, or Rib Sides and see how the unique car adds to the feel. If we are pushing for something like this stay with the truly unique offerings like the center beam... In my opinion of course. One other detail, the car must run well. Ken Zieska,

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1241	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 111

Ok.....I've read the messages desiring to "clean up the unecessary clutter"....please allow me to quickly say that I received numerous positive messages from list members which reminded me of why I joined in the first place.......FREE information...and the opportunity to FREELY express ourselves........I have decided to remain a faithful member, tho admittedly, a cheap one

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1242	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: roadbed

Try eBay too, there's usually several bunches for sale.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1243	From: John Foley	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Staying

Message: 5 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:44:06 EST From: Gf3897@... Subject: Re: Digest Number 111 Good for you, I'm glad your staying John Foley Ok.....I've read the messages desiring to "clean up the unecessary clutter"....please allow me to quickly say that I received numerous positive messages from list members which reminded me of why I joined in the first place.......FREE information...and the opportunity to FREELY express ourselves........I have decided to remain a faithful member, tho admittedly, a cheap one

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1244	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Cranky 293

I tried another engine's brush plate/housing in the 293. Unfortunately it didn't change the 293's performance, but I'll keep that tip in mind. Thanks. I eventually did get some appreciable improvement by trying a pair of the shorter, broader shouldered brushes from Leventons, instead of the longer, sharper shouldered ones I buy from Triple-S. Now I'll keep both types of brushes and springs (Leventon silver, Triple-S copper) around. This result from different style (perhaps material too) brushes and the fact that the armature from the 343 worked great still leads me to suspect something to do with the armature, specifically the brush-commutator interface, but I can't say exactly what. This sort of reminds me of the "spark-profile" conversations we used to have when I auto-crossed sports cars, ergo the SplitFire spark plug and now the latest from Bosch with four contact points. PS On this forum, in my opinion, let it roll, if you're not interested scroll.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1245	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers

Hi all, Since I stirred up this ceramic village discussion with my half baked X/Y/Z market theory, I'm willing to help gather more info on the potential market size and potential retail outlets as I find the time. So far, I have been unable to find a web site for New Bright although Charles Ro does have a New Bright page showing the "Holiday Express" set at ( http://www.charlesro.com/newbrite.html ). I haven't had much luck finding info on units sold by Department 56 (I'm looking for a stockholders report). I haven't heard anything back from Target either but I'll still keep trying. Another potential retailer (at least in the US) is JoAnn Fabrics ( http://www.joann.com ) with 1000 stores nationwide. They sell a lot of ceramic village stuff. I haven't had time to look at their site in any detail but I noticed they do have a page for visitors to make suggestions. If anyone has any ideas on other sources to contact, please let me know. If you are a manufacturer and would like me to provide your email address in my inquiries with these folks, let me know. Monty --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1246	From: Bill Porter	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Zephyrs, Mass Production and Opinions

Hi Folks, I reserved a Zpehyr because I love the train. It will be a major fraction of my purchases for the year. But, I'd reather have one of something I like a lot that a room full of stuff that is....nice. Mass production has a downside hinted at by others. If all of us can get the same models, ehtn all of our layouts and collections will look alike. Ther will be no reason to visit someone else to ju8st see the same things in a different order. Paul is doing an excellent job of providing a forum and simple rules for us all to operate under. Some of the notes are not interesting to me - now or ever - OK. Some are not for me now, but, they might easily become valuable in the future - even better. Some are items I wanted to know about - excellent. And some raise issues I didn't know existed - terrific, ignorance is not blissful. The very limited sales mentions are welcome - no one is overdoing it. I live in Florida - you know, the place where "If you complain enough, God lets you live longer!" The grumbles in this list are peanuts compared to those expressed by my fellow members of the SSR/NMRA. Think of them as old steamers blowing off a little steam and then just keep rolling. I would like to see all notices end with the name of the author - the e-mail address is often not complete or some form of nickname. If you are proud of your opinion, then tell us who you are. Great Zot itS, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1247	From: MARIA W BRYAN	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: AF Partsmaker

Dear Fellow Subscribers: Does anyone know how I might be able to contact Ken Krahn? He was making replacement AF parts a few years ago. I believe he lives somewhere in the Chicago/Milwaukee area. I can contacted at mcwb@.... Thanks, Bobby T. Bryan, Jr..

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1248	From: busy-boy	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Too Much Mail

I am on the TCA mail list. It arrives every day, digest style, that is, all the days posts strung together in one e-mail message. When I subscribed here I found the endless stream of e-mail a daunting prospect. In fact, I feel (don't all get nuts now) that it is what is wrong with this newsgroup. (I'm ducking.) I tried the "digest" version, which was the same as the TCA list and it was better, but the best method for me, which means no streams of heavy mail, is to select "NO Mail". Now I go to the one-list site everyday and view the postings outside my mailbox. If I miss a day, it is all archived for me. So pile it on, post away! I can scan through without tying up my mail service. If you like the convenience of getting the mail digest, you can always delete it once you've read it, secure in knowing that it is archived for future reference. I think that if we start resorting to private discussions because we fear the topic is too simple or not of general enough interest, we defeat the whole premise of internet newsgroup communication. Sure, I don't care right now about some topic but, if you are talking about S-trains, then it affects my interest, so I listen without comment. What kills other newsgroups is off-topic ramblings. This is not the place to discuss Monica Lewinsky. As long as we are in the train related fields, we are golden. It's all good! Probably the biggest help to the list was suggested by Paul and I repeat it here. DON'T REPLY to the list. Open a New Message and use this address: s-trains@onelist.com Put it into your e-mail address book for future use and get in the habit of going to it first. Then, if you need a piece of a previous post for reference, cut-and-paste it into your post. That will shorten the list and make it far less confusing. To Gf3897@... : If you leave this list because you couldn't take the criticism, know this. You are following the advice of no less an icon than Theodore Roosevelt, who said: "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!" I must wonder, however, why you proffered you opinion in the first place. When I read it, I heard you screaming. You displayed outrage and your tone was shrill. You cannot take such a position before a council of opinion makers such as this and not expect to be taken to task for it. I have seen the replies you received, and while some were not kind, most were insightful, and I do believe that a consensus was reached as a result of your inflammatory prodding. It appears that we agree that there are real production reasons why brass is more expensive than plastic, but the prices of each are heading toward a meeting ground, even though they still are somewhat far apart. Even so, there are those who can afford brass, and as long as manufacturers are willing to make it, it is good for all of us because it promotes commercial interest in "S" scales. That's what I got out of the discussion, and you started it. So, why are you leaving again? Oh, yeah, everybody isn't "nice". You want an omelet, you gotta break eggs. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1249	From: Chasbo86@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: train show

Hi Guys: I understand that there is to be a train show this coming Sun (Jan24) in Hamburg, Pa.However, I don't know where in Hamburg. Can anybody help me with a more detailed address for this show ?? I'll go if I can find out where it will be held. Thanks Charlie Bowen

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1250	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Re: train show

Charlie, the show is accessable from two main routes. Rt 61 and US 22. If your coming in on Rt 61 from the north, go over US 22 and about 1/4 mile farther you will go over RR tracks, there will be a cut off there for Fourth Street, it will be on your left. If coming from the south, look for the cutoff just before you go over the RR tracks it will be on your right. The cut off is for fourth street, so just go up fourth street to Pine, and make a right. Go up the grade, and the meet will be on your right. If your coming in on US 22, take the Hamburg exit. From Philly (East), go down the ramp and make a left to go into town. From Harrisburg (West), go down the ramp and make a right to go into town. Either way it will dump you onto fourth street. Come thru town on fourth street past Franklin, Island, and State to Pine. Make a left onto Pine, and go up the grade. The show will be on your right. Its a great show, good luck....Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1251	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Where's the PS-1?

Hi All, Everybody on these lists are talking about how we need this and that but am I the only person to notice there's not a 40-foot PS-1 boxcar in S scale? The tooling for a SHS-quality car could easily be amortized over hundreds of road names like it has been in HO. If engineered correctly, the ends and doors could also be used on 50-foot versions of the car as well. In HO scale, thousands of PS-1s have been made by AHM, Accurail, Front Range, Intermountain, Kadee, McKean, and some other folks I'm probably forgetting. The point is that there are scads of these cars floating around in HO and folks keep selling new ones. In HO scale, there are even modelers complaining because the manufacturers haven't come out with a PS-1 painted a certain style for a certain road! Am I crazy here or wouldn't it make sense for someone to produce a 40' PS-1, with 6- and 8-foot doors in S? I'd vote for for an S scale PS-1 with my dollars. Come out with it in dimensional data and I'll stuff the ballot box! -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1252	From: MARIA W BRYAN	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: AF Alco Shells

Dear Fellow Subscribers, Does anyone have an AF Alco shell in either the New Haven or Northern Pacific paint schemes that they would be willing to sell? The condition of the paint on them is not really that important to me. If they have a broken skirt or other broken part that would be OK. If you have either of these for sale please contact me at mcwb@.... Thank you, Bobby T. Bryan,Jr..

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1253	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Car Fans

Anybody got any idea why the ME '57 Buick has red sidewalls on the tires? Did they really come that way? Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't live there. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1254	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: More of the same

I have updated my links page http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/links/links.htm If you have sent me links and they are missing please re-send. Check out Rick Rooney's 10x20 layout.http://www.zoomnet.net/~pcfarms/train%20page.html Also updated parts page. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/parts/parts.htm Always looking for FAQ material.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1255	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Gondolas in S gauge?

I was asked a question today re: availability of gondolas in S gauge. Since I have zero of these among my S gauge, I need some help. Who currently makes them in S? (The interest is in gondolas you could buy new on the market as compared with older AF on the used market.) What the scale length? Kit or ready to run would be ok... Thanks in advance Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1256	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Re: Gondolas in S gauge?

Michael Greene wrote: > > From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> > > I was asked a question today re: availability of gondolas in S gauge. Since > I have zero of these among my S gauge, I need some help. > > Who currently makes them in S? (The interest is in gondolas you could buy > new on the market as compared with older AF on the used market.) > > What the scale length? > > Kit or ready to run would be ok... > > Thanks in advance > Michael > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm American Models (long plastic) and Rex (short diecast). -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1257	From: Dale Smith	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: Sorting Mail - A suggestion

I agree that we should start new messages that clearly identify the subject of the post. In this way those who are interested can quickly read what they are interested in and those who aren't interested, can filter the mail to the trash can. I don't think the digest subscribers are aware that us non digest subscribers get a subject line that reads "Re: Digest Number 109" whenever you use the reply button. Even if you use the reply button, you can change the subject line and it would be appreciated if you would do so. I would also like to suggest that we use key words, such as "autos", "AF", "proto 64", etc in our messages, so that sorting can be done easily by our mail program. When I got back from a holiday trip I had 200+ messages in one e-mail system at work, 100+ in another, as well as 200+ in s-trains. I just recently got through all of them. Also, a note to Chris Zizzo, (busy boy). I think you have Gf3897@... confused with Roger Hinds who expressed his opinions re brass prices. Gf only noted that the price of the 3rd Rail Zephyr was a bit inconsistent with the use of the word "only". I don't recall any screaming in his message. This confusion may be understandable with the high volume of messages. I agree with Gf wholeheartedly. I consider the price high, but that is not to say it is not worth it, only that I won't buy it. We all have to set our priorities on what we will purchase and balance that against our other responsibilities. I think this is what Gf is doing and I wouldn't criticize him for it. I am doing the same thing. Dale Smith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1258	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: sorting mail

The suggestion of being a little more specific re subject only goes to prove often the best ideas are the simplest. I for one will try to be more regimented in Subject description, where appropriate. :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1259	From: softmoods@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/20/1999
Subject: D&RGW BOX CAR

HI ALL, A MOMENT OF YOUR TIME WITH A PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT, IF I MAY NOW AVAILABLE WESTERN CAR SHOPS .. 1st OFFERING DENVER & RIO GRANDE WESTERN (D&RGW) 68000 SERIES .. 1937 40' AAR 10'6" BOX CARS RIO GRANDE FREIGHT CAR RED, WHITE LETTERING AND FLYING RIO GRANDE LIMITED RUN OF 80 CARS .. 4 ROAD NUMBERS PACIFIC RAIL SHOPS CARS USED 'S' HELPER TRUCKS USED INDICATE SCALE OR HI-RAIL TRUCKS $ 39.95 ea + SHIP/HANDLING WYOMING FOLKS INCLUDE 5% SALES TAX SHIPPING/HANDLING 1 or 2 CARS .. $ 5.50 3 or 4 CARS .. $ 6.50 MAKE CHECKS/MONEY ORDERS PAYABLE TO: WESTERN CAR SHOPS SORRY, NO CREDIT CARDS OR C.O.D.'s NOT ACCEPTED. ALLOW 3 - 4 WEEKS FOR DELIVERY WESTERN CARS SHOPS 2837 OLIVE DR CHEYENNE, WY 82001-5736 PHONE #: (800) 305-8535 E-MAIL: softmoods@... CONTACT FOR REMOVAL FROM LIST. THANKS FOR THE MINUTE OF YOUR TIME. ROBERT L. SHERWOOD WESTERN CAR SHOPS, CHEYENNE, WYOMING

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1260	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: sorting mail

I'm thoroughly enjoying ALL the S gauge postings. Paul, please don't limit anything or create yet another list. I find it very easy to rapidly scan and hit the Delete button, or save a posting as a file if need be, but I wouldn't want any "editing" done for me ahead of time. The diversity of topics is what's really neat here. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1261	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: sorting mail

In a message dated 1/21/99 9:30:50 AM, alex.ai2q@... wrote: <<I'm thoroughly enjoying ALL the S gauge postings. Paul, please don't limit anything or create yet another list.>> Paul, I agree with Alex. I like things just as they are. I am enjoying this board greatly. Thanks, RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1262	From: John Foley	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Hamburg

Message: 8 Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:44:11 EST From: Chasbo86@... Subject: train show Hi Guys: I understand that there is to be a train show this coming Sun (Jan24) in Hamburg, Pa.However, I don't know where in Hamburg. Can anybody help me with a more detailed address for this show ?? I'll go if I can find out where it will be held. Thanks Charlie Bowen Hi Charlie Hamburg Pa. is at exit 10 on interstate 78, just east of route 61 [exit 9] When you get off 78 go south into downtown to pine make left. You will see signs. Good show. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1263	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: Digest #113 Cranky 293

I'd bet a dollar that the face of your commutator is worn in an uneven manner. This makes the brushes flex and spring rapidly so they don't make GOOD contact all the time. I have fixed a few of these by resurfacing the face. I have a jig I built a few years ago for this purpose. It is not difficult to do but you must keep everything square and finish up the job with a fine polish. If you leave the surface with any roughness on it it will eat brushes like candy. Have never had one not run much, much better after this treatment...regards...Steve Blackburn RMHR...Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1264	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: power pack

g'day While my long-term goal is DCC, my more immediate prospect is for a small (hopefully growing) layout probably running one or two trains at a time in a 16x11 room. my question is whether a conventional HO power pack will be enuf to make the trains go -- mostly AM and SHS? cheers Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1265	From: busy-boy	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Correction

Dale Smith wrote: Also, a note to Chris Zizzo, (busy boy). I think you have Gf3897@... confused with Roger Hinds who expressed his opinions re brass prices. Gf only noted that the price of the 3rd Rail Zephyr was a bit inconsistent with the use of the word "only". I don't recall any screaming in his message. This confusion may be understandable with the high volume of messages. I agree with Gf wholeheartedly. I consider the price high, but that is not to say it is not worth it, only that I won't buy it. Dear Dale: You are correct, sir! I went back and found the original messages. Indeed, it was Roger who wrote all in caps and blustered brashly about brass. Gf3897 (strange name if you ask me, and you didn't) also railed against high prices, but in a more civilized tone. I did confuse the two. My apologies. Glad you decided to stay on Mr. 3897 ( mind if I call you Gf?) Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1266	From: joes-train-repair@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: (no subject)

We carry the spring washer (PA10927; 25 cents) as well as the switch pilot stud (PA10925; 75 cents) mentioned by Steve Pendleton as the way to repair loose AF switch frogs (instead of using shims). Both of these are original AF parts. We also now carry reproduction AF rubber roadbed, with 10" sections (curved or straight) for $2.25 and wide radius curved for $2.50--plus shipping. Joe Joe's Train Repair Fax Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 80,000 parts in stock covering over 1,100 part lines American Models ################### S-Helper Service joes-train-repair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1267	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: Gondolas in S gauge?

In message <4.1.19990120210604.00bbdc30@...>, Michael Greene <mgreene@...> writes >From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> > >I was asked a question today re: availability of gondolas in S gauge. Since >I have zero of these among my S gauge, I need some help. > >Who currently makes them in S? (The interest is in gondolas you could buy >new on the market as compared with older AF on the used market.) > >What the scale length? > >Kit or ready to run would be ok... These are the Gons I'm aware of: AM 52ft Mill Gon (fishbelly sill) AF 42ft? Gon striaght cill - don't knock it a good model if you upgrade the brakes & running gear/trucks Lehigh Valley Models 65ft drop end mill Gon Central Hobbies cast resin 40fy wood/steel composite Gon Not a lot of choice really... -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1268	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: redwalls

Ted: I'm not certain of the year, but sometime in the late 50's/early 60's red sidewalls were used. As I recall, it was about the time the narrow whitewalls came on the market. The "Redwalls" were narrow, as well. I haven't seen the car in question, so I don't know if they are narrow or wide. Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1269	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: power pack

Alex Binkley wrote: > > From: "Alex Binkley" <alex.binkley@...> > > g'day > While my long-term goal is DCC, my more immediate prospect is for a small > (hopefully growing) layout probably running one or two trains at a time in a > 16x11 room. my question is whether a conventional HO power pack will be enuf > to make the trains go -- mostly AM and SHS? > cheers I have had good luck with AM diesels and a small HO power pack when we were short of power once at a module set-up for a show. I think the can motors draw very little more current than HO. Beware tho that a long train might get you in trouble. My little HO supply got warm to the touch. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1270	From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: Redwalls

Bruce, Regarding your question about redwall tires. Narrow band whitewall tires started appearing on most all factory released cars in 1961, and redwalls or redlines as they were called were introduced with the G.T.O. as an option choice in 1964. These tires were also originally referred to as " Tiger Paws " enhancing Pontiac's Tiger theme and later referred to as redlines when other tire manufacturers started making them for other MUSCLE CARS of the period. Hope this helps, Obie Bell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1271	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: Redwalls

That's the ticket! I found the photo of the 64 GTO at the following link about the same time your e-mail came in. I guess ME is saving on tires and used the same ones from the GTO on the Buick without turning the red stripe to the inside of the car. BTW, whatever happened to Uny, Roy, and Al, the Uniroyal stunt team? -- Keith Thompson in Seattle http://www.users.mis.net/~fugates/Document2.html obie bell wrote: > > From: bellokdaka@... (obie bell) > > Bruce, > Regarding your question about redwall tires. Narrow band whitewall > tires started appearing on most all factory released cars in 1961, and > redwalls or redlines as they were called were introduced with the G.T.O. > as an option choice in 1964. These tires were also originally referred > to as " Tiger Paws " enhancing Pontiac's Tiger theme and later referred > to as redlines when other tire manufacturers started making them for > other MUSCLE CARS of the period. > Hope this helps, > Obie Bell > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1272	From: John Foley	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: S Sale

Hi Folks I was asked to let everybody know that there is going to be an S scale sale this Sunday the 24th. Bob Lovatt is moving and has some hard to get S Scale items for sale. Bob Lives in Havertown Pa. in the Philly area. If interested call 610-449-5077 John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1273	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Vehicles

The International School Bus that I have mentioned is partially pictured on p.28 of the October 1998 Dispatch; upper left. I have several extra Mint Editions vehicles that I'm planning to return to the store. After seeing so many comments about people not being able to find them, I'm happy to make them available to list members first. Tell me if you want a list. I also have some spare '30's Matchbox and Day's Gone By vehicles. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't live there. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1274	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Ooops, an apology! (list history)

Hi all, It has been (politely I might add) pointed out that I've forgotten the list history. Paul started this list, did a yoeman job of manually compiling everyone's messages and reposting them to everyone, then L Gibson offered his site for it, then later Paul stepped back in and kept it going. So Paul's been here from the start. I'm just lucky enough to be one of the early joiners. I mearly meant to say that I've been here a looong time & list volume goes up and down, those of you who feel swamped by the present volume, fear not, it will diminish, those who want more when it does, fear not, it'll pick up again! Meanwhile, break out the track, let's play trains!! S'incerely, David D. PS, Paul's still doing a great job w/his web site & this list; many, many thanks!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1275	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Freight cars

Two other choices for gondolas, American Flyer with Ace underbody and WA Drake for a brass composite gondola. The former converts with only a small amount of work and the later is a gem albeit not inexpensive. The Rex gondola was very plentyful at one time. I had a stack of about 5 at one time and left them out for ashtrays.... I know bad form. About a PS-1. I think it is a great idea, the Pacific Rail Shops car is fantastic but the assembly puts some folks off. SHS has beautiful box cars but not ones that would be used heavy in my modeling era. The American Models car has limited application (Height) and the detail doesn't reflect current standards of detail. In fact, the detail has gone backward since its introduction. A question a manufacturer might ask is, what percentage of the marketplace would differentiate between the different models of boxcar? If the mass would not, would the market support a new tool. What would be the detail expectation? In the case of the American Models car, they quit producing the brake rod-chain assembly and always had sparce underbody detail yet it seems to sell well with prototypical and not so prototypical paint schemes. I was once told at an S Fest that the reason a person didn't like the PRS boxcar was that it made their string of Flyer cars look small (short). yep, that's right, not because either car is wrong, they are just different prototypes. I am not being critical of this idea or other persons who do not share my appreciation for 40' boxcars. I personally really like 40' boxcars and I appreciate the difference between boxcar styles and types. Ken Zieska

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1276	From: John Foley	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: 3RD Rail

Hi folks Just an email i got from 3rd rail I thought i'd share with you. They are besides doing the Zephyr are also doing the B&M Flying Yankee. Dear John, Scott > >>Talked to the folks at SoundTraxx. They are developing a sound system that >>plugs into the Bachmann 2-8-0 tender. Plug and Play. I think we will >>provide the NMRA DCC interface for such an addition for all our Scale models >>and DC HiRail. AC will plug into the same plug with a small reversing unit. >> >>Scott

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1277	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: Freight cars

As plentiful as the AF gon is, how come we have not seen any more bashings than we have--like lengthened or shortened cars, etc. If I remember right, the prototype is a 1931 car cyc edition that was built by Pressed steel and was nearly exclusive to that one batch that went to Texas and Pacific. Here is another wild one: Anyone remember B&O National Road? it was a hwy combine they later sold to EMD, then Rock Island bought it, and RI sold it to a resturantuer in Rock River, Ohio. It had the door, 3 single windows, and 5 pair of windows, etc. I figured out that if you cut out the 13 feet that had the 3 single windowsand and put the rest together, you had the AF 653/953 combine prototype. Also, if you take two combine bodies, cut them just ahead of the paired windows, then butt the two coach sections together, you ged a sufficiently accurate B&O 5900-series coach, 3 of which showed up on Rock Island after going through a betterment program--yes, I have such a shell, but changing all the windows to thermopanes and adding a/c ducts for a whole new roofline is not exactly a current project. I admit I'd like to see similar stories about the pullman and obs. carbodies, and how they came into being. dje Ken Zieska wrote: > Two other choices for gondolas, American Flyer with Ace underbody > and WA Drake for a brass composite gondola. The former converts with > only a small amount of work and the later is a gem albeit not > inexpensive. The Rex gondola was very plentyful at one time. I had a > stack of about 5 at one time and left them out for ashtrays.... I > know bad form. > > About a PS-1. I think it is a great idea, the Pacific Rail Shops car > is fantastic but the assembly puts some folks off. SHS has beautiful > box cars but not ones that would be used heavy in my modeling era. The > American Models car has limited application (Height) and the detail > doesn't reflect current standards of detail. In fact, the detail has > gone backward since its introduction. A question a manufacturer might > ask is, what percentage of the marketplace would differentiate between > the different models of boxcar? If the mass would not, would the > market support a new tool. What would be the detail expectation? In > the case of the American Models car, they quit producing the brake > rod-chain assembly and always had sparce underbody detail yet it seems > to sell well with prototypical and not so prototypical paint > schemes. I was once told at an S Fest that the reason a person > didn't like the PRS boxcar was that it made their string of Flyer cars > look small (short). yep, that's right, not because either car is > wrong, they are just different prototypes. I am not being critical > of this idea or other persons who do not share my appreciation for 40' > boxcars. I personally really like 40' boxcars and I appreciate the > difference between boxcar styles and types. > Ken Zieska

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1278	From: Jarcho	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: freight cars

Lionel makes a fishbelly gondola that can be cut down to S with a razor saw. B&O prototype I do believe. Makes a nice car. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1279	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Advertising and "S"

Ah yes that strangest of all beasts advertising...and those darn train sets As anyone in wholesale/retail or any form of selling will vouch, the slipperiest of all phantoms is "advertising" it will always raise questions of value for money , return for investment....demographics and all that jazz. I hark back to my days of retailing. Now if any of you are not convinced by now that I am some strange despot of a maverick to likes to tilt at windmills then this ought to do it. Late in 1984 I came into the ownership of a record/hifi outlet...I did so because a) it was cheap....b)close to home...c) had just arrived back in Melbourne from a years working in a dusty hell hole of a country town, cashed up and young enough to still like having a go at the "impossible" I threw all the records and cassettes out (well sold them actually) and installed all the stock of CDs and associated hardware and parephenalia I could find..keep in mind this was 1984, most people had never heard of a Compact Disc. I had instituted what I still consider and no-one has ever disputed is the first CD specialist store in the southern hemisphere. SO WHAT!! What has all this to do with "S" trains and advertising....well..you name it i t and I tried it as far as advertising went. A very strange thing happened though through all this...I found that you could probably sell a box of bird droppings...if it was packaged well, price-pointed correctly and was situated in the stores "magic spot" (any one in retailing will explain this phenomon). What I found was, and have had similar findings ratified by experts.(just in the next office to me is a sister company that specialises in markering and especially micro-marketing) is the ol real estate cliche the three P's ...you know position , position , and postion....I have heard int translated in retailing as packaging, price and postion. The point of all this rambling is...you don't necessarily have to spend a lot of money on advertising...IF and its a reasonably big size IF...you can put it right in front of a person who has already committed themselves to looking/buying a type/style of product....then the product will sell itself. We are used to having to read about products in magazines etc in this hobby...because we are generally not in immediate proximity to these products when we are interested in them. It is the norm... Keep in mind these CATS (ceramic accessory Train Sets) are not for "us" per se...they are aimed at a different style of consumer...we Modellers tend to buy a great many items from a distance....in my case over 10000 miles away!!!... the person/s aimed at for "cats" are more used to the impulse/instant avaialble type of purchase...you know the most wonderful of "marraiges of convenience" a seller can have ...a consumer with intent( and reasonably higher disposable income) and proximity to a desirable product...aaah heaven!!! As far as advertising costs go, you might get away with co-opping the costs of local junk mailing etc...this shouldn't extend into telephone numbers (that is high cost) Keep in mind that this kind of product is akin to the "chinese 'G' set" at the market at christmas, no national campaigns, no major advertising...its cheap, its cheerful in the store at the right price.. A seller will often ask for no more than this. We in our own minds tend to get caught up in the personalising of purchasing consumer items. We need to stand back and consider that there are many tastes out there (they're next to the TRUTH)(sorry) and the aim is to strike as common a chord as possible within the confines of the target audience. Now selling the idea to financiers and wholesaslers/distributors and retailers...now that may be a different kettle of fish. However the rules a very similar, except these people like the sound of cash registers, we just need to show them that a product such as this is going to help them make money..now excuse me as I need to work on my blood extracting stone crusher...gotta be a market for those!! :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1280	From: AFSTrains@aol.com	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 113

In a message dated 1/21/99 6:04:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, S- Trains@onelist.com writes: << Hi Guys: I understand that there is to be a train show this coming Sun (Jan24) in Hamburg, Pa.However, I don't know where in Hamburg. Can anybody help me with a more detailed address for this show ?? I'll go if I can find out where it will be held. Thanks Charlie Bowen >> Charlie, the show in Hamburg is Sunday 1/24 at the Hamburg Fire Company Field House, Pine Street, Hamburg. 4 blocks off US 22/78. From Allentown it is the first Hamburg exit. Take Fourth Street (exit drops you right onto it) to 4th right (second light) Pine Street. Show is up the hill near the cemetary on the right.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1281	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/21/1999
Subject: Photos in Nth Cal/Oregon

An offer to any who can help Should anyone be travelling in the Dunsmuir to Grants Pass part of the world and are going to be taking photos of lineside industries and locales...such as shops and factories...as well as scenes in general along this line I would be happy to reimburse the cost a a couple of rolls of film( and postage) for copies of any photos. This would be very much appreciated. Anyone able to help...please email directly to save traffic...thankyou :-)) Richard ps in the Jan issue of Pacific Rail news, the pages on CORP show a GP9 ..is this ex SP???

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1282	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Boss31 - - comm wear

I think you're right. Would you be interested in resurfacing a couple to see if that turns them around? (no pun intended) Let me know. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1283	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Re: Redlines

Hi, I have a 1:1 scale 1968 Triumph TR250. It originaly came with redline tyres. Though it was not easy (or cheap) I was able to find a set for my restoration. (summer hobby) kbt ,--/--&/\-----O ====== / o/ &/ / _ /| /--/-\--\/----O'/ ====== \--()-`---()--''

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1284	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: What's Happening at B.T.S.!

Howdy Friends Just a quick update about the things happening here..... Brass - Received some really neat stuff in S and HO. Posted on the B.T.S. site at http://www.btsrr.com/btsodd01.htm Buy two or more items from that page and deduct 10%!!! Master Creations -- HO Stuff Hyde Pulp Mill - This kit is nearing completion. Still finalizing all the trim parts and hope to start cutting in a few weeks. Donovan's Transfer Co. - Most have been shipped. Still assembling circuit boards for the sound systems, and getting them out as quickly as possible. Some still left! Take a look at the sound info at: http://www.master-creations.com/btsdtscr.htm Spring Creek Mercantile - Two standard and one Silver Edition on the shelf! Hurry! S/Sn3 Modeling Guide We have skipped the December/January issue, and realigned the cover dates to fit into one year. The next issue will be Mar/Apr. All subscriptions have been bumped up an issue. This will get us back on the right schedule! Orbisonia Station in S & O The final details are being finished up now. The assembly of the canopy posts is really slick! Brass etchings are due any day from Korea, and lamps are due in from Taiwan. O scale will ship first, then the S scale. Coon Gap Sawmill in S & O This is a lot of work! Still waiting for the machinery data to arrive from the Timber Times folks, but while waiting, we are still changing and cutting the test wood parts. We have had to redesign some major components to clean up some quirks that existed with the HO model. Delivery is still a couple of months away, but the results will be great! The components for the additional sound systems are inhouse and assembly will start soon. O & On3 Brass Log Cars The quantities are getting low, so time to clear them out. Call for special quantity pricing, and if you have a sawmill reserved, we will take really good care of you!! Call for details!! Hartoy Trucks in S Scale. The modern tractor-trailers, Precision Engineered Models (PEMs), are getting low and it is time to clear them out. Watch the web page for special clearance pricing that will be posted shortly. http://www.btsrr.com/btshar01.htm Thanks for your time, and your support! Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1285	From: KROLL	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: maps

Paul: One writer wanted to know how to get to Hamburg PA. Since most of us travel to shows and need to know where we're going, if anyone doesn't know about them then the following sites will give you detailed maps. www.MapsOnUs.com or www/mapquest.com You can enter a street address, or even just a street or town, or zip code and get maps of anywhere. Dick Kroll * TOOTY TOOT-TOOT * * ____ --------------| | | | _____ |_________________|__|__ | | | | | |___| || | _________________________| | | OO OO \ |___________| O O O O _ \ (_) OO OO (_) __\

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1286	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Target's Response

As I mentioned in an earlier message, I posted a message on Target's web site vis-a-vis an AF compatible train for sale with their Christmas villages. Here's what I received today. Monty --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. --------- Forwarded Message --------- DATE: 22 Jan 1999 08:46:10 -060 From: Guest-Relations-HQ@... To: lmontgo@... Thank you for contacting Target with your suggestion. It certainly sounds interesting and I have logged it for our buying office. If you are aware of manufacturers that are interested in this, I would suggest having them contact our new vendor line @ 1-612-304-8637. Thanks! Troy --------- End Forwarded Message --------- -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1287	From: buzz davis	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: AFhe

A few questions: Does anyone make cork road bed for S gauge. I have a 977 operating caboose. The little guy does move but the thing buzzes all the time. Is this normal ?? Also, instead of having screws to hold the body to the frame it looks like it has been riveted with small copper rivets. I can see a peen mark on the rivet. How, if one wanted to, do you take the car apart for service. Thanks in advance Buzz Davis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1288	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Re: AFhe

Hi Buzz: I too have a 977, and it's buzzing more than ever lately. I tried rigging a rectifier to run it on dc by fishing through the lamp access hole on the bottom, but I wasn't successful in the installation. The unit's clearly in need of a small rectifier (even a single diode half-wave rectifier) and filter capacitor so the coil can run on dc to stop the buzzing (by the way, it works soo-o-o-o quietly on my dc tracks). I guess the rivets have to be removed to do it properly. Any thoughts on how best to accomplish this would be appreciated. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1289	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Re: AFhe

Cork roadbed..........Scenery Unlimited sells S cork roadbed. I use H0 cork roadbed, but I run a 3/16" square balsa wood strip down the center line and place the halves of the cork roadbed along side the balsa wood strip. It works just fine and can be bought at most model shops. Also you can use half of a section of 0 gauge and half of a section of H0 gauge cork roadbed. You would have to refigure the center line and availability of the 0 gauge cork may be a problem. 'S', Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1290	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Re: AF action caboose

Those "rivets" in the four corners of the floor are push pins. To remove the body from the car floor, work a thin piece of metal, such as the back of an x-acto knife blade, into the crack between body and floor at each end and gently pry the body up, which will yank out the pins. You may have to just slightly bend the arm to get the car body off. Wiring a small diode bridge into the circuit between the pickups and solenoid will quiet the chatter. The spring can also be refreshed if necessary. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1291	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Re: AFhe

buzz davis wrote: > > From: buzz davis <buzbiker@...> > > A few questions: > Does anyone make cork road bed for S gauge. Buy O and HO cork roadbed. Use one of each side by side and you have S gauge roadbed. They're both the same thickness, about 3/16". > I have a 977 operating caboose. The little guy does move but the thing > buzzes all the time. Is this normal ?? Also, instead of having screws > to hold the body to the frame it looks like it has been riveted with > small copper rivets. I can see a peen mark on the rivet. How, if one > wanted to, do you take the car apart for service. Buzzing is normal. It's the continuous dutry solenoid on AC. If you put a diode in series with the coil the resultant DCV in the caboose will prevent buzzing. To remove rivets drill or grind the heads off. You're dealing with somewthing jerry rigged so be careful. After removing the rivets you should use AF body pins or tiny screws to replace them. Good luck! -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1292	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Re: AFhe

In a message dated 1/22/99 3:54:58 PM, alex.ai2q@... wrote: <<I guess the rivets have to be removed to do it properly. Any thoughts on how best to accomplish this would be appreciated. >> Another way at removing the rivets (pins) is to carefully heat the head of the pin with a soldering iron and then pull the pin out. You may want to practice this first on a junker you do not care about. The pins usually stick when inserted back into the car body. With a bit of care, I have found this method to be the least harmful. Although a small rectifier does fix the buzz (as correctly suggested), placing a small piece of foam inside the solenoid and a small piece of tape under the slide arm where it touches the caboose floor often works, if you desire to keep the piece "stock". RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1293	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: looking for a few good FAQs

Please visit http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm and send me your ideas on these questions or any others that you can think of. Even if you don't have a good answer. I will not mention the Survey. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/info/survey.htm And I am still having FUN. Hope you are too. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1294	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Scenery

I have read about chopping carpet foam in a blender and dying it various shades of green to make scenery material. Works Great, except I am having trouble making very fine grass grade material. I think it is chopped fine enough, but I'm having trouble getting it separated. Anybody got any knowledge on this? Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't live there. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1295	From: Bill Rodgers	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: DYNAMIC BRAKE CONVERSION FOR AK GP7 SHELL

HELLO I'M LOOKING FOR TWO SETS OF BRASS DYNAMIC BRAKE CONVERSION KIT ( THREE PIECE SET) FOR A GP7 AF SHELL . THESE WERE MARKETED SOME YEARS AGO BY JON BEVERIDGE. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. BILL RODGERS rpc@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1296	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: Members

Hey guys, 22 Jan 99 With Paul saying there about 350 members to this list....it would be nice to hear from some of the 300 and get their thoughts on things. Knowledge is valueless unless it is shared. 3rd Rail should do very well with the Zephyr.....nothing else it would make a great mantle showpiece; and they have touched on a very corner stone of railroading with that offering.......maybe a bi-polar one of these days too. Gale Hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1297	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 1/22/1999
Subject: List modification

I guess I had to put my two cents worth in here about the need (?) to modify the list or types of posts. I joined this list to get info on repairing and operating AF trains and other layout related topics. I have gleaned lots of good information from the list postings. I know I'll probably get flamed because of some of my next statements, but these are MY opinions, and I really don't care if you agree or not. Personally, I don't care much about the lengthy discussions of scale details and prototypical stuff. My trains are used as toys like they were intended. Also, I can't see why some of you guys have a constant need to worry about what "L" is or isn't doing. I could care less if "L" ever makes another Flyer item as they make everything geared toward the collector, not the operator or the little kid who wants a toy train. But, so what? That's not where my interest lies, so I just skim over most of these discussions. What I am getting at here, is that everyone has their own interests and likes/dislikes. And bunk with the "using up bandwidth" theory, it's not that big of a deal. We just don't need more people telling everyone else what they can or can't do just because they don't like it themselves. We got plenty of "do gooders" and crooked politicians doing that right now and look where it's getting this country. If you don't like something and it's not hurting anyone else, SHUT UP and just ignore it! My vote is to keep things the way they are, Paul. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1298	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: List modification

Paul, I am a hi-railer and operate a few pieces of AF converted rolling stock, but I agree with Rodger, keep the list the way it is. Thanks for all your efforts, it is a great site. 'S', Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1299	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: cork roadbed

Scenery Unlimited markets cork roadbed for S, and we stock it. Off the top of my head, I believe it is $36.95 or $38.95 per case. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1300	From: Richard McClary	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: List modification

I am one of those interested primarily in Flyer and compatible and dream of someday building a layout. However, I have learned much from scalers. Furthermore, the population of S-gaugers is to tiny to afford the luxury of in-fighting, flaming, etc. I offer one suggestion, however. I belong to two WinNT admin mailing lists. One is set up so that it is very difficult to reply directly to the poster. Instead, all replies go to the list. This gets so busy that I have a series of filters to dump mail from that list elsewhere to accumulate. The other list actually has a moderator (that tries to stay out of things, but he is responsible for the listserv). There is basically a single guidline. People that ask a question are expected to post a summary (so labled) once the problem is solved. People are urged to reply directly to the poster rather than to the list. The summary generally has quotes (generally acknowledged) from the various replies. This, I feel, has the best of both worlds; it keeps "bandwidth usage" to a minimum, and the summary passes "the knowledge" to the rest of the group. Just a suggestion... -- Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1301	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: AF car body 'pins'

Buzz, Many AF car floors are held to the body with brass or brass plated 'push pins' that look like rivets. Sometimes they have a mark on them from the factory assembly tooling. These are/were a press fit into a molded hole in the body, and as such put a strain on the plastic (Well, yeah, that's what keeps them in!). I've found the easiest, and least damaging method of removal (OK, WARNING! if you 'slip during this procedure, it can be *very * damaging!) is to figure out how to provide some separation tension between the body and the floor. Sometimes this can be as simple as pulling on a wheel truck while also holding the body, all in the same hand! One hand is important, because with the other hand, you *carefully* place a soldering tip on the head of the rivet, and heat. As soon as it is warm enough, the floor will lift the pin out a ways. Go to the other corners and repeat. The action caboose has the added problem of the figure and mechanism, which can be a reeal pain to get apart! I don't have a good suggestion here, except to hold your tongue right, usually curled up on one side of a lip!<G> When it's time to re-assemble, I try the pin in the hole first, hoping to get the grooves lined up with the grooves the pin set in the plastic before. Takes a little 'feel'. Then I use the heat again and gently push down with the tip. Not too much heat, or you'll make your own, new, in-the-wrong-place, hole! The only reason for heating while replacing is to reduce the pressure on the plastic body, it's old and getting brittle!. If you do have split mounting areas, I've found that a drop of super-glue can help fill them and keep things together. After super-gluing, I use the same heat method to put the pin in. I use the heat method for screws too, if the hole didn't have one before, or I've super glued it. This is a little trickier, as you have the screwdriver on the screw, and the heating tip too. I apply tension to the screwdriver, as soon as it begins to turn easily, remove heat and gently screw in. If you encounter resistance again before you get the screw home, you may have to re-apply heat, but be careful to not strip out the plastic!! I do this proceedure quite often with tender shells, they seem to have lots of cracked or broken mounts. The most important thing I've learned is to be gentle with the AF fastners. If it isn't going together easily, something has changed, and the plastic is getting to brittle to be forgiving anymore. Wrong screw, cross-threaded, misaligned, glue in the hole, all can lead to a bad " Ooops, dang!" Stop and look it over again before going on (which for me means to find the magnifiers and look!). Whew!! long post! Hope it's helpful. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1302	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Dynamic Brake parts

Bill, I know I have at least one set of the Beveridge parts and perhaps more. I also have the dynamic brake parts from the American models engines that I am not using. I don't have an AF shell so I can't tell for sure that they will work. Would be happy to share them, what kind of a project are you working on? Ken Zieska

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1303	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest #115 977 caboose "pins"

It can be risky to pry between the frame and the body to loosen these mounting pins. There is the risk of cracking the plastic or causing chipping. I use a small screwdriver that has been honed very thin and work it under the pins all around. Then use a little twisting motion on the screwdriver and the pin will work its way up enough to be able to grab it with a pair of needle nose pliers. Here it is important to pull straight up on them because they are splined and you don't want to destroy the spline in the plastic of the car. In other words, don't twist them as you pull them out. They will usually go back in easily and still hold very tightly. Steve Blackburn...Boise, Idaho RMHR

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1304	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: S-Gauge for sale

Rance Velapoldi (velapold@...) has the following items for sale... Please contact him if you are interested. Rance has the following two �L� sets and several cars for sale before he leaves the country later this year: Rance wrote: >1) "L" Northern Pacific 6-49602 set (ABA) + 5 cars, Plus extra PB-1 >6-48117 with railsounds; Plus 6-48925 Passenger Coach, Plus 6-48934 >Dining car. This set was purchased from a dealer who had it on a display >track - I never had it out of box and am asking $750 (plus shipping) >with extra car. >2) "L" Historic B&O 4-8153 and 4-8154 ABA + 6 car freight (9000 flat >with two semi-trailers; 9102 tank car; 9201 hopper; 9301 gondola with >containers; 9702 sentinel box car; and 9401 caboose). This set was >purchased 2 years ago at York; I have never had it out of the boxes. I >am asking $500 (plus shipping) for this set. >3) �L� �6-48707 Nickel Plate Road Refrig. Car -$25 >4) 2-American Models 5010 ACF 50� Raillink Box @ $30 each >5) American Models 5009 ACF 50� D&RGW Box - $30 >6) American Models 5004 ACF 50� CNW Box - $30 > >The sets/cars will be sold on a first come, first serve basis (asking >price). I will also entertain reasonable offers for the sets and cars >and will answer all e-mails (if my e-mail provider holds out!) > >Rance Velapoldi >velapold@... Please contact Rance if you are interested. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1305	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: Commutator resurfacing

In reply to those of you that have asked if I would resurface your worn armatures for you the answer is yes. The charge is $5 and you pay shipping both ways. Steve Blackburn 10504 Fairview Av. Boise, Idaho 83704 TCA...NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1306	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: AFhe

Buzz: Those rivets on the underframe are the same ones used on the AF box cars. One way to remove them is to heat them (the brass rivets) with a small soldering iron and pull them out with needle-nose pliers. Watch the soldering iron around any plastic (ie: the car body)! Several years ago Tom Barker did a piece in the S-Gaugian about the buzzing sound. I can't put my hands on the issue right now, but there is apparently a diode or something that you can get from Radio Shack that is suppossed to stop the buzzing. If you'll give me a week or two, I'll try to get up in the attic and see if I can find the article. Best of luck Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1307	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest #115 977 caboose "pins"

Boss31@... wrote: > > From: Boss31@... > > It can be risky to pry between the frame and the body to loosen these mounting > pins. There is the risk of cracking the plastic or causing chipping. I use a > small screwdriver that has been honed very thin and work it under the pins all > around. Then use a little twisting motion on the screwdriver and the pin will > work its way up enough to be able to grab it with a pair of needle nose > pliers. Here it is important to pull straight up on them because they are > splined and you don't want to destroy the spline in the plastic of the car. In > other words, don't twist them as you pull them out. They will usually go back > in easily and still hold very tightly. > > Steve Blackburn...Boise, Idaho RMHR http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm I have had good kuck in many cases by pulling the rivets directly out with t pair of nreedle nosed pliers. My second attempt is to pry the rivet out by slipping something thin under the head if it will go and then prying.If this doesn't work, then I start the prying frame from plastic as the last resort. This approach saves some risk of dinging the plastic with whatever tool you use for prting. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1308	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: Dynamic Brakes

I needed one of these a while back but could not find one. The American Models GP9 comes with a three piece dynamic brake housing as a part to be optionally installed. These should be available from the parts boxes of fellow modellers who did not wish to install them. That's how I got mine! Bill Frazier In a message dated 99-01-23 06:04:53 EST, you write: << Message: 14 Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:06:38 -0500 From: "Bill Rodgers" <rpc@...> Subject: DYNAMIC BRAKE CONVERSION FOR AK GP7 SHELL HELLO I'M LOOKING FOR TWO SETS OF BRASS DYNAMIC BRAKE CONVERSION KIT ( THREE PIECE SET) FOR A GP7 AF SHELL . THESE WERE MARKETED SOME YEARS AGO BY JON BEVERIDGE. ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED. BILL RODGERS rpc@... >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1309	From: buzz davis	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: questions

As a new subscriber to the list I must say that I was overwhelmed with the response to my recent questions. Many thanks to all those who gave me some very sound advice. I also ride a BMW motorcycle. The list there is much like yours and people share information gladly. It is nice to be involved in avocations where people are so committed and willing to help. Buzz Davis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1310	From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Flying Yankee

Don't know how many of you subscribe to TRAINS magazine but as an added release they have an issue entitled TRAINS CLASSIC that includes an article on the Flying Yankee. I just got mine a couple of days ago and haven't had the chance to read it yet but since there seemed to be some interest about this train on the List lately I thought some of you might be interested. " Oh Boy, TRAINS " ...Herky (1950) Obie Bell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1311	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Taking the jitter out of the 977 flagman

Hi folks: Here's how you can take the jitter and noise, clicking and hum out of your AF 977 caboose flagman. Start by carefully removing Mr. Rubber with a small pair of pliers. Gentle lifting will separate the lil guy from the swing arm. Set 'im aside. The "rivets" on the 977 caboose were indeed splined pins, as described last week by Jarcho and RB on the thread here. I was delighted to get that information, and immediately set about opening up my caboose--a task I've wanted to do for some time. Many, many thanks! I used a well tinned chisel-point soldering iron of about 75 W capacity. If you keep the tip scrupulously clean by frequently wiping it on a wet sponge, it won't mark the splined pins with any solder. I simply heated the pins for about ten seconds each, and pulled each one straight out with a pair of needle nose pliers. Easy! Next I placed the caboose on the bench with the solenoid assembly to my right. I then snipped the wire that leads from the uninsulated truck; I cut it about 1/4-inch back from where it's staked to the solenoid coil. That way, there's no strain on the coil termination itself. By the way, Gilbert expertly left a tiny "service loop" at the truck. That's a nice touch which gives the stranded wire an extra measure of flexibility as the truck swivels. Don't pull the wire too tight and crimp that little loop. I left the original lamp wiring in place and clipped the wire leading from the insulated truck (opposite end of caboose) where it terminated on the solenoid. This left the solenoid isolated; the original wiring has one end of the solenoid connected to the uninsulated truck. Next I installed a "block"-style full wave bridge rectifier next to the lamp, using a small piece of double-sided tape to hold it in place. The rectifier I had in my junkbox was rated at a hefty 15 Amps. It was originally intended for use in a power supply for a 100 W stereo amplifier! It measures about 1.25 inches square and perhaps 3/4 of an inch high--including the terminals. Overkill, but who cares? You could substitute four discrete 1 Amp diodes (such as 1N4001 or 1N4002 types) for the preassembled bridge (I described this in my notes for the reversing handcar). But, if you purchase an insulated bridge, as mine was, so much the better. By the way, some bridge rectifier assemblies have a metal base. If you get one of those, take care to insulate it from the circuitry inside the caboose. Now, solder the lead from the insulated truck to the "ac" input terminal (either terminal will do) on the bridge. These terminals are sometimes marked with a little squiggly sine wave symbol; sometimes they're marked "ac." Solder the stranded wire from the uninsulated truck to the other "ac" input on the rectifier block. Then wire the (+) and (-) outputs from the bridge to the solenoid. Polarity doesn't matter. That's all there is to it. Reassemble the caboose. It's not hard to do. I found that the splined pins simply press-fit back into place without the need for any adhesive or heat. Put the flagman back on and press him into place. Place the caboose on the track and apply the throttle. You'll find that the flagman is now stable and quiet! However, there is a caveat. You MUST now run your caboose on ac. It will not work on dc trackage. By the way, I initially tried using a simple single diode half wave rectifier and a 100 microfarad electrolytic filter capacitor, but the solenoid didn't like half wave DC. It chattered. The bridge is the way to go. I have a JPEG file of the wiring, and will send it along to Paul for inclusion on his page. Or, I can FAX it to any list member that sends me a FAX number. Have fun! Regards from Kennebunk, Maine: Alex .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1312	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: Re: Taking the jitter out of the 977 flagman

Alex's solution work fine, on the rubber man cabooses, but if you have a metal man caboose, the 'tongue held in the right place'' technique will be necessary! S' David D. PS I had the same problem with a single diode, my caboose now has a cheap Radio Shack rectifier chip. One advantage, it seems to slow down the action a little bit, making it more realistic.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1313	From: RBaratta@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/23/1999
Subject: SanteFe Alco

Hi Friends, This is my first posting. My mom bought me some sets when she worked at Gilbert. I am looking for the following: SanteFe Alco numbers 485 and 486 to match to my 484 powered unit. The set is a 'ABA', yellow and blue colors. I have the older track which the 484 loves, and I have some Pikemaster track which the 484 does not like, but I do, and I'm the boss :-) Where can I buy some Pikemaster track? Thanks S gaugers, later. Bob Baratta RBaratta@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1314	From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Cork Road Bed

In a previous message it was asked if cork bed is available in S. As was pointed out Scenery Unlimited offers some, though available only at top dollar. It was also suggested that O cork bed might not be readily available. It is well stocked at several local hobby stores and is also available through Charles Ro at a considerable discount. The most economical might be to buy from Ro and pair with HO if you don't mind that the seam is not your centerline. If you want to simulate higher road bed, the Scenery Unlimited road bed fits very neatly on top of the O cork bed. I'm doing this double high road bed on my layout as a way to eliminate the homasote. Don't know it it will be a good solution as I'm just getting started. Ben Trousdale

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1315	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Agent Orange

Hi Guy"S"; I thought I would run something by the gang while I have the thought. About orange locos and rolling stock. Whenever I see trains (and other toys for that matter) made out of orange plastic, I cringe. They look awfull. Not the color orange itself. Orange plastic is always a bit transparent. And there is no mistaking the item is made of plastic. I do not buy trains that have a plastic look about them. I don't mind if it is plastic. I just do not like the obvious look of plastic. So how to overcome this? I suppose I could paint a white primer on the shell and then paint on a flat orange. That would do it for sure. However wouldn't it be nice if the manufacturer did this, which would increase his sales? Comments ??? Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1316	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: scenery & paint

I'm Baaack; About making grass: I use wood. Take thinned green latex paint. soak the end of a pine board in it. Let it dry thourghly. use a disc sander to sand the green wood. Instant grass (green sawdust). For coarse grass use a fine saw blade on the end. The coarser the blade the coarser the grass. Want tall grass in some areas. Use green thread. Carpet is to heavy a material. cut to various lengths. All less than 3/8". glue into place. Use a glue that will not show after it has dried. Ok - - - it is an awfull lot of work for a large area. An anology: Hair is put on museum wax dummies one at a time. It is simply a matter of, Do you want the realistic look. Meanwhile, back to the latex paint. A grass green will look OK in the sunlight. Bring it into your train room and see if it is to dark indoors. If so add white to the paint go easy so you don't overdo the white. Another point I just thought of: Use flat paint for all of your trainroom colors. In order for me to get a gallon of flat green paint I had to do the following. I bought a gallon of Flat white ceiling paint. I added a pint of Flat dark green paint. (more or less as needed). Uses : for the trees. Also I mix it into plaster for the hard shell scenery. If the plaster cracks, you will not see a white crack. Later Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1317	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: 3rd rail ?

Hi: Is this "3rd rail" supposed to be another name of L*****? Or is this a new company I haven't heard of? If so what do they make etc: Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1318	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Re: 3rd rail ?

At 02:27 PM 1/24/99 -0800, Roger Hinds wrote: >From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > >Hi: > Is this "3rd rail" supposed to be another name of L*****? > >Or is this a new company I haven't heard of? If so what do they make >etc: > >Roger I've never heard of a corporate link between 3rd Rail & L*. I believe they are very different companies. 3rd Rail is a division of Sunset Models and has been making brass for O community for a while I believe (at least I see a fair number of their engines at the O scale conventions I attend). Sunset is of course well known manufacturer of HO brass. Check their Web Site for more details. Michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Greene North Grafton, MA 01536 NMRA Life Member #5433 Home e'mail: mgreene@... Past Chair, NMRA DCC Working Group Member, NTRAK, NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, The 470 Railroad Club For "Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge": http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cedarlane/nmradcc-info.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1319	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Re: Agent Orange

In message <36AB96BE.48DD@...>, Roger Hinds <cofa@...> writes >From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > >Hi Guy"S"; > > I thought I would run something by the gang while I have the thought. >About orange locos and rolling stock. > Whenever I see trains (and other toys for that matter) made out of >orange plastic, I cringe. They look awfull. Not the color orange >itself. > Orange plastic is always a bit transparent. And there is no mistaking >the item is made of plastic. I do not buy trains that have a plastic >look about them. I don't mind if it is plastic. I just do not like the >obvious look of plastic. > > So how to overcome this? I suppose I could paint a white primer on the >shell and then paint on a flat orange. That would do it for sure. > The American Models Maine Central 50ft ribbed boxcar suffers from this - the easiest cure is to paint te inside matt black, and matt down the outside with dullcote or similar - it cures most f the transparency. -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1320	From: seg@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Floor pins

I agree with David's methods for floor pin removal and extraction. I'd only add that be sure to use a low-wattage (40 W max) pencil-type soldering iron (Radio Shack) made for printed circuit work. It would have a small spade tip that is NOT wider than a floor pin head or door guide rivet. DO NOT use a large gun-type iron. You won't have the needed control and the wattage is too high. You will melt your piece (experience!). For removing pins, I use a wide (0.75 in.) carpenter's chisel ground to a small angle bevel (less than 10 degrees). With the piece upside down and the chisel bevel up (flat side towards shell) work the chisel between the floor and frame. The wide chisel more evenly distributes force, so that the plastic shell is not damaged. I usually use this method for removing pins rather than using a solder iron, because I can't keep the iron still enough during the process (ie. melt marks!). By all means use the soldering iron method for pin and door guide rivet installation. Steve Gruninger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1321	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Weekend Report

At the conclusion of the last PPSSW meeting, I was told that "this negative progress has to stop!" We had spent the evening trying to figure out how the last little problem spots on the layout were going to be finished. Seems that no matter how we went about it, the scenery would look contrived. After the last club member left, I shut off the lights and went to bed. As my head hit the pillow, I was struck with a blinding flash of the obvious. So down the basement I went and shivering on the cold floor deceided to make one last modification to the trackplan and solve two problems at one time. As a result, the line between Marilyn and Twin Cities has been realigned AGAIN. It will remain hidden and I have added two storeage tracks. I no longer have a scenery issue and I have room to put more cars on the layout. After many years in S, I have accumulated enough cars that I could be getting close to gridlock with cars and locomotives. Couple that with all the great new things that are coming available and a problem that a S Gauger of the 70's felt would never happen is possible, to many choices! There has been one casualty from this rebuild. The trusty Craftsman jig saw gave up the ghost, to many cuts through the 3/4 inch plywood and whatever else I had. Lucky for me, Marilyn is a better home handy person than I and she immediately saw the need to replace the tool. Make sure you get your registration in for the NASG Convention this summer and plan on spending Sunday Afternoon over at the Minnesota Heartland Railway for a few hours of prototype and model railfan action, a picnic and some relaxed S discussion. We are right on the SOO Line mainline so you can see the latest in CP motive power, SOO SD40-2's, visit the MHRy and enjoy sharing memories of the convention, train show and clinics. Ken Z. http://trainweb.com/nasg1999/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1322	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Re: Agent Orange

who says the primer has to be white--how about , black or brown, then come back with a slightly lighter finish first-coat to compensate, then zero in on your final shade. dje Roger Hinds wrote: > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > > Hi Guy"S"; > > I thought I would run something by the gang while I have the thought. > About orange locos and rolling stock. > Whenever I see trains (and other toys for that matter) made out of > orange plastic, I cringe. They look awfull. Not the color orange > itself. > Orange plastic is always a bit transparent. And there is no mistaking > the item is made of plastic. I do not buy trains that have a plastic > look about them. I don't mind if it is plastic. I just do not like the > obvious look of plastic. > > So how to overcome this? I suppose I could paint a white primer on the > shell and then paint on a flat orange. That would do it for sure. > > However wouldn't it be nice if the manufacturer did this, which would > increase his sales? > > Comments ??? > > Roger > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1323	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: k335 headlight

Hi, I have a problem with the headlight of my k335 4-8-4 Northern. The head light will only light when the engine is running in reverse. I checked the wire diagram on Paul's web page and Greenberg's AF operating instructions by Jeff Faust. This engine has a 5th wire, which by passes the jack plate, and is soldered to the front tender truck. Both above diagrams show it connected to the rear truck. I suppose as a kid I may have interchanged some wires. Any help?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1324	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Re: k335 headlight

Wayne, Resolder the 5th wire to the top central reverse unit finger, the one that is also connected to the rear truck. That should solve your problem. (I hope!) BTW, this finger is also wired to one side of the coil. The other wire from the smoke unit/headlight should go to the left motor brush, which should go to the front truck through the wire harness/plug. You will then have headlight in forward and reverse. (RATS, prototypically it should go out or dim in reverse. Without thinking it through, there's probably a way to do that too--but you'd have to wire the headlight seperate from the smoke unit if you wanted smoke in reverse. Hmm, I'm rambling--it's late. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1325	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/24/1999
Subject: Re: Agent Orange

Roger, If you look at the AF car selection, Gilbert saved money on the 'starter' sets by molding the cars in their main color. On the better sets/cars, he painted the plastic. There was a definite differentiation between the two, well, at least until Wrather took over. I actually like the orange IC reefers, myself! I buy them when they are cheap as I plan on a train of them sometime, sorta like I remember the PFE trains as a kid. Yes, I know that last years' club car was just what I wanted, but I can't afford a fleet of them! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1326	From: RB	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: AF engine "wobble"

I have 2 AF engines, one is a 307, the other a 302. They run fine but I'm noticing that when they execute a turn, the engine appears to wobble sideways slightly. It looks fine on the straight stretch, but takes the radius curves with this ugly wobble. Looks like it may wobble about 1/4 inch or so. I use the old standard AF track and my radius' are standard 6 piece curves. Any advise as to what I should look for would be appreciated. skeeze@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1327	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: PIns, handrails, GG-1 volume

I've found that a set of Craftsman precision screwdrivers (black handles with red pivot caps on the end) are indispensable. I think the tip widths range from .1" to .20". Anyway they come separately or as a set. The tips are tough and I use them to carefully pry out body pins. Their precision nut drivers are nice too (black handles with green pivot caps on the end), especially the 3/16" and 1/4" for removing side rod and drive rod screws. What's the fastest, most effective way to shine up wire handle rails? I use Simichrome polish, cotton cloth, and elbow grease, but what a pain. Tender rails are tiny, and boiler rails can kink if you're not real careful. Thanks. PS I use the .1" wide screwdriver to adjust the volume control on my AM GG-1. With a tiny hole drilled through the body directly in line with the internal control, this fits in and does the job great. The hole's not very noticeable, and I like the easy access to controlling the volume. Otherwise it's too loud at night for the kids sleeping. But this way I can turn it up when playing trains with them during the day.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1328	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: powered dummy

Has anyone added power to a 473, or run two 470's as a double header? I'm thinking of adding power to my 473, and sound to the 471 with the guts of a double-motor diesel and Railsounds B unit respectively. But before I do, thought I'd ask if anyone has had experience with this. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1329	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: flyer puzzlers

Greetings, Some odd thoughts while I was working on my Flyer layout: Has anyone bothered retrofitting pikemaster trucks with L-Flyer or original knuckle trucks for dependabilities sake? How many different Flyer cars were produced sporting Santa Fe logos? What is the best way to fasten Pikemaster track to a roadbed & board and has anyone ever ballested this track with some sort of stone shavings and how did you do it. that's all for now, work calls Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1330	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: STARTER SETS?

In response to all the discussion we have had off the S Trains Digest, I will not pursue starter sets any further. Much research has already been done with discount stores and the result is no one can produce an electric set for under $100 to compete with Bachmann HO or On30. To advertise nationally is more than the cost of a prototype model and set up costs. I have spent hours on this and would rather put my time into enjoying my local clubs, the NASG and caring for my family as well as my Architectural work. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1331	From: Dennis Back	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: AF 5th wire smoke/light

Correct me if I'm wrong....I noticed with my older 4 wire engines, the headlight works only in forward and reverse directions. If connected correctly, doesn't the 5th wire give the headlight (and smoke) power in ALL positions of the e-unit including neutral? Dennis Back Miami, Fl.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1332	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Re: AF 5th wire smoke/light

Answers: 1)Yep! 2) Yep! (If I said something different before, I was Wrong-o!) Gotta go work--RATS!! rather play w/trains or the computer S' DAvid D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1333	From: michael prell	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Re: STARTER SETS?

Sadly enough, you're no doubt right. On a massive scale, no one could offer such a deal. There was a time, however, about ten years back when the New York Central S-gauge Association did, in deed, offer a "Starter Set" in limited supply. It consisted of an engine & tender, transformer & track clip, 3 freight cars, a red caboose (had to have that!), Oval track (12 curve & 4 straight) an uncoupling ramp& accessories, instruction manual & information pack, all fitting nicely into an under bed storage box. I bought the smoke version 307 set for I think about $85.00. I may be wrong about the price, but it wasn't over $100. As I said, this was a limited offer. From this small "start", a fire was built which has allowed me to enjoy this hobby. Their motto was, "Let's Keep Flyer Rolling!". I don't know how many folks bought these sets. It's just too bad that the Big Boys couldn't follow suit. Another place, another time. I'm very thankful to that organization for having given me a chance. I'm even more greatful to my Wife for being understanding! Anyway..... ---Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> wrote: > > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > > In response to all the discussion we have had off the S Trains Digest, > I will not pursue starter sets any further. Much research has already > been done with discount stores and the result is no one can produce an > electric set for under $100 to compete with Bachmann HO or On30. > > To advertise nationally is more than the cost of a prototype model and > set up costs. > > I have spent hours on this and would rather put my time into enjoying my > local clubs, the NASG and caring for my family as well as my > Architectural work. > > Staying on NASG track, Glenn > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > List owner - Paul Yorke (yorke@...) / List Info - http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1334	From: Rodney.Booth@xxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: clubs

Does anyone know of any s gauge clubs or organizations in Knoxville TN. I am new to your s-train list.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1335	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Re: STARTER SETS?

Dear Mike, Yes, the CNYSG was an innovative club when they offered these sets in the early 90's. Many members of the club spent time collecting and repairing common flyer items to assemble an entry level set. One of the goals was to keep the price under $100.00. But, as time went on, the availability of low cost motive power in the Syracuse area diminished and the project stopped. I know Kent Singer was a moving force in this project. I also know that the question of product liability was also hotly debated during these sets production. michael prell wrote: > > From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > > Sadly enough, you're no doubt right. On a massive scale, no one could > offer such a deal. There was a time, however, about ten years back > when the New York Central S-gauge Association did, in deed, offer a > "Starter Set" in limited supply. It consisted of an engine & tender, > transformer & track clip, 3 freight cars, a red caboose (had to have > that!), Oval track (12 curve & 4 straight) an uncoupling ramp& > accessories, instruction manual & information pack, all fitting nicely > into an under bed storage box. I bought the smoke version 307 set for > I think about $85.00. I may be wrong about the price, but it wasn't > over $100. As I said, this was a limited offer. From this small > "start", a fire was built which has allowed me to enjoy this hobby. > Their motto was, "Let's Keep Flyer Rolling!". I don't know how many > folks bought these sets. It's just too bad that the Big Boys couldn't > follow suit. Another place, another time. I'm very thankful to that > organization for having given me a chance. I'm even more greatful to > my Wife for being understanding! Anyway..... > > ---Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> wrote: > > > > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > > > > In response to all the discussion we have had off the S Trains Digest, > > I will not pursue starter sets any further. Much research has already > > been done with discount stores and the result is no one can produce an > > electric set for under $100 to compete with Bachmann HO or On30. > > > > To advertise nationally is more than the cost of a prototype model and > > set up costs. > > > > I have spent hours on this and would rather put my time into > enjoying my > > local clubs, the NASG and caring for my family as well as my > > Architectural work. > > > > Staying on NASG track, Glenn Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1336	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Re: cork roadbed

In a message dated 1/25/99 5:57:20 AM, you wrote: <<In a previous message it was asked if cork bed is available in S. As was pointed out Scenery Unlimited offers some, though available only at top dollar. It was also suggested that O cork bed might not be readily available. It is well stocked at several local hobby stores and is also available through Charles Ro at a considerable discount. The most economical might be to buy from Ro and pair with HO if you don't mind that the seam is not your centerline. >> A case of S roadbed actually retails for LESS than a case of O roadbed......at least the most common brand with which I'm familiar ! We carry both. S = $36.95 per case of 75' . Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1337	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Re: PFEX fleet

In a message dated 1/25/99 5:57:20 AM, you wrote: << I actually like the orange IC reefers, myself! I buy them when they are cheap as I plan on a train of them sometime, sorta like I remember the PFE trains as a kid. Yes, I know that last years' club car was just what I wanted, but I can't afford a fleet of them!>> Aren't you glad you waited!!!!!! By the end of next week, we should start receiving the first of the PFEX UP/SP woodsided reefers..........not only are they less expensive than the '97 NASG car.......they're more realistic, and come in 3 different numbers !!!!!! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1338	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: S Gaugian being indexed online!

Just a quick note to let everyone know that an effort is currently underway to index back issues of S Gaugian magazine in the on-line Model Train Magazine Index. A few issues (1982 and a couple from 1998) have already been included. More are on the way. Jeff Scherb, the owner of the database, is working to include all the issues as quickly as I can provide the necessary data. If you're not familiar with MTM, check it out at: http://www.accurail.com/tm.exe It's hosted by the folks at Accurail. MTM already indexes over 20 magazines, and over 31,500 articles. Hopefully this will make it easier for those interested in S to search for articles of interest, and be able to include one of the key magazines in the S world in the search. Michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Greene North Grafton, MA 01536 NMRA Life Member #5433 Home e'mail: mgreene@... Past Chair, NMRA DCC Working Group Member, NTRAK, NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, The 470 Railroad Club For "Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge": http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cedarlane/nmradcc-info.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1339	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Out of the Net

This is the MHRy Western Division signing off of the net until this weekend. Traveling down to Dallas to try to convince thousands of people to business with Wendell's. Feel free to take up touchy subjects while I am gone then I cannot aggravate folks with my reply. If the SD-45's are announced before I get back, don't let them sell out before I get some. Ken Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1340	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Looking for a "Police USA" car...

Hi all, I just found out that the Police USA series by RC has a '32 Ford CHP car. Since the officer who drives the '30 Ford CHP car is a friend of mine, I'd sure like to get at least one of these! Would be fun to send him one too! Would be fun to have two of them for myself to set up a classic 'behind-the-billboard' speed trap! I'm not likely to find one here in the die cast car hinterlands, so if you see some, think of me, OK?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1341	From: John Foley	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Tennessee S Club

Message: 9 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 14:19:57 -0500 From: <Rodney.Booth@...> Subject: clubs Does anyone know of any s gauge clubs or organizations in Knoxville TN. I am new to your s-train list. Rodney In the 1998-99 Nasg directory there is a listing for a club in TN. It is the Tennessee S Gaugers Jim Sleeth 1107 Sunset Drive Gallatin, TN 37066 Phone 615 325-0702. Also check out the NASG website at http://www.trainweb.com/nasg/ John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1342	From: John E. Dalton	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: S-Trains FAQ

Paul, I just saw the above. You've done a great job with this! (What a fine service for the "S" community & those who might become interested in "S".) Thanks again. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1343	From: John E. Dalton	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Re: S Gaugian being indexed online!

Michael, What a helpful idea! Have you thought about adding the following? "Running Extra" "Plans, Drawings" and maybe, "Departments" Anyway, keep up the good work. "S"incerely John (P.S., I've asked Don H. if he would add a current cover scan and/or a table of contents to his web site. But, so far he's not interested.)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1344	From: Bill and Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: [S] More rare stuff for sale!

Howdy Friends Additional rare items have been posted to the Odds & Ends page! http://www.btsrr.com/btsodd01.htm Purchase two or more items off that page and get a 10% discount! Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1345	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Roundhouse diagram corrections

Friends: This is for those of you who read my Roundhouse column in S Gaugian magazine. Tom Agee has pointed out an error in several of the diagrams of Flyer switches in the Jan-Feb '99 Roundhouse. In figures 4,5,6,&7, pp. 39 & 40, the wires from rails 1 and 4 to the lower contacts should be reversed. Rail 1 should be shown connected to the lower left contact, and rail 4 to the lower right contact. These connections are shown correctly in figure 1. Thanks, Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1346	From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Retail List Price

Doug Peck wrote: A case of S roadbed actually retails for LESS than a case of O roadbed......at least the most common brand with which I'm familiar ! We carry both. S = $36.95 per case of 75' *** While I am not fully conversant with retail prices for the different sizes of cork road bed I will agree with Doug that S cork bed probably lists for less than O cork bed. However.... Charles Ro sells O cork bed for $23.95 per case of 75 feet. That's over 33% less than the retail list price that both Port Lines and Scenery Unlimited charge for same length of S cork bed. If I knew of a source of discount S cork road bed I'd buy it there. I actually thought of buying only O cork bed and triming it down, but decided the time trade off wasn't worth it and I wanted to support the Scenery Unlimited product. I'm of the school of why pay full bust out retail when it is available for less. This hobby is pricey enough as it is. I do make exceptions to this rule, such as mentioned above and start-up projects where cash in needed up front to get a good project off the ground. Ben Trousdale

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1347	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: 1/64 cars at Wal-Mart

I visited my neighborhood Wal-Mart (N. of Atlanta) yesterday, and was shocked to find that our 40's -60's Road Champions models have been removed from the department!!!! There was some other, cheap line (don't even recall the name) in 1/64 but the model years were all contemporary. What's up? Has anyone else experienced this change in Wal-Mart? Steve Pendleton bestofbreed@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1348	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: S Gaugian Index?

Wow! This sounds great. I've got every issue going back into the late '70s. Where will we find the on-line Model Train Magazine Index? Thanks very much for your efforts, Mike and Jeff!!! Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1349	From: Joseph F Haenn	Date: 1/25/1999
Subject: Change of e-mail address

Please note that my e-mail address has been changed to: joestrainrepair@... Please change your address book accordingly. Thank you, Joe Joes Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer American Models ################### S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1350	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Re: Starter sets

In a message dated 1/26/99 6:13:27 AM, you wrote: <<There was a time, however, about ten years back when the New York Central S-gauge Association did, in deed, offer a "Starter Set" in limited supply. It consisted of an engine & tender, transformer & track clip, 3 freight cars, a red caboose (had to have that!), Oval track (12 curve & 4 straight) an uncoupling ramp& accessories, instruction manual & information pack, all fitting nicely into an under bed storage box. I bought the smoke version 307 set for I think about $85.00. I may be wrong about the price, but it wasn't over $100. As I said, this was a limited offer.>> Big difference here, however..........these starter sets were "recycled", reconditioned, used Am Flyer trains...........NOT new equipment. There is a VERY significant difference in cost factor involved. Also, these sets were prepared and marketed as a "labor of love" by the NY club........not as a business venture for profit! The S Starter Set project actually began with the Bristol S-Gaugers, and was then picked up by a few other clubs around the country. The NY club was one of the most productive and successful groups with this project. We still offer these sets today, although the price has climbed a little bit. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1351	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Re: PM

In a message dated 1/26/99 6:13:27 AM, you wrote: <<Has anyone bothered retrofitting pikemaster trucks with L-Flyer or original knuckle trucks for dependabilities sake? What is the best way to fasten Pikemaster track to a roadbed & board and has anyone ever ballested this track with some sort of stone shavings and how did you do it. >> (1) We frequently replace PM trucks with regular KC trucks for customers. (2) Ties can be tacked, and glued with either white glue or "Liquid Nails"...With the latter it will hold forever! (3) We carry a medium-gray ballast which works fine with S track, PM or otherwise. Spread it and either leave it as is, or spray it with diluted white-glue. We carry the ballast in either small bags, or in bulk. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1352	From: Ross M Roberts	Date: 1/26/1999
Subject: Police USA Vehicles

For the 1932 Ford try: http://www.racingchamps.com/prod_lineup/archives/98/RCpreview/RCpreview_set.html Ross Roberts

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1353	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Roadbed

I'm curious, what are the advantages of cork versus Homasote for roadbed? The Rochester NY WalMart has one of the largest stocks of ME of any store in town. Ballast can be purchased from your pet store. Canary grit. Ballast can be purchased in bulk from your farm store; bird grit. It comes in several sizes. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't live there. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1354	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Armatures

Thanks Don. I think you've hit the nail on the head. I suspect wear on the commutator plates, particularly with regard to a "trenching" of the plates where the brushes exert their pressure, and something out of the ordinary at the gap between sections. After some running, I've noticed black dots that resemble the "footprint" of a brush. That leads me to think there's hesitation of some kind right there - - probably from the plates no longer perfectly level with another causing the brushes to knock into a ledge (perhaps more in one direction than the other). A year ago, when I experienced similarly decay in the forward direction performance from my 303, I suspected these same problems (i.e. the trench and ledge). I removed the armature. Secured a variable speed electric drill to my vise. Inserted the armature in the chuck with a protective wrap. Then with the speed of the drill fairly high and locked, I "faced" the commutators with a wet stone dampened with some cutting oil. I also pressed a piece of wood with a 5/16th hole drilled in it and 320, 400, 600, then 1200 grit wet/dry sandpaper taped to it against the spinning armature (the hole accommodates the end of the armature). Then I polished the commutators. I got some better performance, but only temporarily. It wasn't long until performance diminished again. Perhaps I didn't remove enough material. I wish I has a lathe the could be set to remove precise amounts and achieve a really flat facing. On the other hand, I'll bet if you remove too much, and make the plates too thin, they'll warp or change shape with use. I have a Dremel and will try your counter-rotating technique. Thanks. ---------------------- Forwarded by David Horn/VA/Best on 01/26/99 11:19 AM --------------------------- "Donald P. Abrams" <donabrams@...> on 01/26/99 11:18:04 AM To: David Horn/VA/Best cc: Subject: Armatures Dave, Been away from the S-trains list for a while due to a computer upgrade. I'll bet the face of your "slow in forward" armature commutator needs to be "turned". The face of some commutators becomes grooved. In the worst cases the groove deepens at the end of the surface of each segment so that one side of the slot is noticeably lower than the other side. The brush then is actually banging into the edge of the opposite side of the slot. Lots of friction! I think that it happens in the forward direction because this represents 99.999% of the hours of operation. Also, in the cases where I'm sure that I've been the first to repair a loco, I'll always find brushes that are extremely worn -- like as much as 80%. I've solved this problem many times over the years without the use of a hobby lathe. I chuck the armature in a 1/2" drill, after protecting the worm shaft with masking tape. I check to make sure it is spinning true and rechuck if necessary until it does. Then the drill gets put in a vise to hold it and it is set to turn CW (as I face the commutator). Next the Dremmel gets a medium thickness cutoff disk. I fire up the Dremmel and vveeeeerrryyyy carefully "true" the commutator face. (I work with the left-hand side of the disk so it is counter rotating the direction that the armature is turning). When you start, that's when you really can see the damage. The depression in the groove adjacent to the commutator slot is quite noticeable at this point. I just go along carefully until the grooves are gone! The face of the cutoff disks is wide enough so that I can pretty much keep it flat against the face of the commutator. At this point I polish. I use an old ignition point file and wrap a piece of 600 grit or higher emery cloth around it. I hold this against the commutator as the drill turns it. I go slowly through this whole process (so as to avoid heating up the windings), but it takes only about 10-15 minutes. Try it. You'll like it! Forward this to the list if you like. Don Return-Path: <> Received: from h2.mail.home.com ([24.2.2.28]) by ha1.rdc1.mi.home.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA8033 for <donabrams@...>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:49:57 -0800 Received: from mx1-e.mail.home.com (mx1-e.mail.home.com [24.2.2.29]) by h2.mail.home.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id SAA25546 for <donabrams@...>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:49:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.bestsoftware.com (mail.abra.com [163.125.31.35]) by mx1-e.mail.home.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA16909 for <donabrams@...>; Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:49:55 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199901210249.SAA16909@...> From: POSTMASTER@... To: donabrams@... Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 21:42:10 -0500 Subject: Undeliverable message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1355	From: William Porter	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Homasote v Cork

Well, this one ought to get a few opinions. I have used both and I like both. My preference is for cork. Homasote is excellent for hand laying track and for experimentation. Just cover the whole tabletop with the stuff and start sticking spikes or brads through the ties. If something needs to be moved a bit, the job is easy. I have encountered three problems with it, though. First, it makes a lot of nasty dust when it is sawn. It can be cut with a utility knife, but, that adds a lot of strain to my wrist and the result is pain. Since it is made from old newspapers, the dust is fine and travels all over. It sticks to clothes and shoes. If you make dust in one part of the house, all parts will experience.....homasote. Second, it responds to changes in humidity. When the humidity changes with the seasons, the material will grow and shrink. That can cause minor or major problems. Seams can open and track can buckle. Here in Florida, we have high or medium humidity. My layout is in the air condioning, so the variations are not great. But, a layout where there is (shudder) winter or in a basement or garage will have to deal with the problem. The solution is to paint both sides with cheap latex paint - an extra step. The third problem is that the thicknesses of the sheets varies. It may vary from one end of a sheet to the other. That makes it harder to match up joints. The solution is to select good matches and to machine the joints - more dust. Cork is also excellent. Since I do most of my work using open grid subroadbed made from plywood, there is not much experimentation when the track laying time comes. After I have the track plan, I install the plywood and then attach the cork to the top of that. I use nails and others glue it down. Both ways are good. The material is easy to cut with utility knife or razor saw. Track nails go right through it to hold the ties to the plywood - must be careful not to drive the nails too deep and bend the ties. Since I hand lay a few items, I have found that some wooden ties are the same thickness as the cork plus flex track ties - so, the rails match up nicely without fuss. The pieces are much easier to handle than the 4 foot by 8 foot homasote sheets. They are also easier to store when construction takes a few months. A few years ago, I would visit my inlaws and take a chunk of homasote with me. While there, I would build a temporary layout and run trains. That worked better for the N of my youth than it would for our S of today. Homasote is also commonly used in modular setups. Before I built the last incaration of the ZOT, I calculated the cost difference between the two. The surprize was that there was no difference. Much of the homasote goes to waste (or to the scrap bin where it can be very handy for building foundations and other stuff) and almost none of the cork is wasted. Good Luck, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1356	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: WAL-MART CARS

The Harleysville, PA and Hilltown, PA stores have not carried the Racing Champion Mint Edition for several months. They still carry the NASCAR series but who has time to strip and repaint cars. Johnney Lightning, Matchbox and Hot wheels are their featured cars for less money which are not as prototypical nor to scale. Matchbox does have a 5 car box called CRAZY CLASSIC II, mostly junk, but I paid $4.99 because it had the Oscar Meyer Weiner Mobile (maybe thats a Philadelphia phenominum). The other four will be birthday presents for children. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1357	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Digest Number 119

Message text written by Ben Trousdale, Ben, I am not a retailer of anything. I don't understand your logic. >A case of S roadbed actually retails for LESS than a case of O roadbed......at >least the most common brand with which I'm familiar ! We carry both. S = >$36.95 per case of 75' OK, you have an established price in your mind. >*** >While I am not fully conversant with retail prices for the different sizes of >cork road bed I will agree with Doug that S cork bed probably lists for less >than O cork bed. >However.... > >Charles Ro sells O cork bed for $23.95 per case of 75 feet. That's over 33% >less than the retail list price that both Port Lines and Scenery Unlimited >charge for same length of S cork bed. Now another price comes along. Even though it is not the same item, maybe not even the same manufacturer, and is an item that is mfgd. and sold in much higher volume you have a new, lower price in your mind. >If I knew of a source of discount S cork road bed I'd buy it there. I >actually thought of buying only O cork bed and triming it down, but decided >the time trade off wasn't worth it and I wanted to support the Scenery< So now you know you are comparing apples to oranges, but you don't want to use your time to make apple juice from orange juice? But because the orange man's price is lower, the apple man has to make his price the same or lower than the orange man? I agree with your philosophy of spending your money how you want, I don't understand your noncomparable product logic used to arrive at a price? charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1358	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: gondolas

Some days (weeks) back, someone inquired about gondolas in S scale. Replies noted the AM, Rex, AF, LVM etc gons. While I'm not finished, I did get a MTH O scale gon which comes out to just under 60 feet in S and cut the middle out of to bring it to a proper width. I glued it back together and put in a new floor. It still needs a lot of finishing work (if I can figure out what Dremel sanding tool to use), new ladders or grabs, brake wheel, stirrup steps etc. The AF gon seems to be highsided like many modern gons. Has anyone tried cutting one in half and adding a section from another one to get a 52'6" car or even longer. I note CN has 54 and 56 foot gons. Also scratchbuilding should be quite doable although I would like advice on how to do the ends of gons which look quite unique. cheers Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1359	From: Allen Evans	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Good-Bye Ted!

Although Ted Fabian has left us, his image to the world lives on at: http://glenn.lerc.nasa.gov/ted.htm After having visited his web page, I can tell you all that I now understand just who this person really is, and take note of his true uniqueness. I wish him good will and adieu. Allen Evans Covington, Louisiana

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1360	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: cork vs homasote

mhrreast@... wrote: > > I'm curious, what are the advantages of cork > versus Homasote for roadbed? > I started using homasote on my 10X10 S-scale layout because of its reputation (the homasote, not the layout). I am disappointed in it - it's not the panacea I expected. The first problem is getting true homasote. There are a lot of building materials that are similar (paper composition, etc.) and the lumber yards around my location are not too reassuring that this is the same homasote that the magazines write about. The next problem is that there is variation due to humidity etc. My area does not have wide swings in temperature or humidity but I have experienced some warping - even though I painted all surfaces before I secured it to the plywood (with glue and screws) It is a nuisance to cut to shape. I use a knife blade in the saber-saw which makes a nice edge with little dust but is still more work. If I were starting the layout again I would stick to cork over plywood - at least 1/2 inch ply. I am handlaying track and the homasote surface is nice for gluing ties to but I imagine the cork would work as well - never tried hand laying on cork. Art Armstrong aarmstro@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1361	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Re: gondolas

Alex Binkley wrote: > > From: "Alex Binkley" <alex.binkley@...> > > I did get a MTH > O scale gon which comes out to just under 60 feet in S and cut the middle > out of to bring it to a proper width. I glued it back together and put in a > new floor. It still needs a lot of finishing work (if I can figure out what > Hi Alex - this would make a great article for S/Sn3 or the Digest - I know it is difficult to prepare an article and get the photos etc. but this is an intriquing approach. Hope you can do it. Art

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1362	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Road Bed Question

I have followed the recent discussions of road bed, but my question is what provides the best sound insulation. I live in a condo, and my trains run over cabinets attached to the walls. The rumble of my trains can be heard in the next unit. How can I best preserve the peace? Thanks for any thoughts, Daniel.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1363	From: Loyd, Warren	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Re: Road Bed Question

If your setup is attached to plywood, boards, etc. that sit on top of the cabinet, you may try putting pieces of foam insulating boards between the cabinet and youre layout board. I'm thinking of the type found in building supply stores that is used as an insulation/sound barrier on the outside walls of new houses. I can not tell if it will work in your case, but it is worth trying. > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Neumayer [SMTP:Daniel@...] > Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 4:54 PM > To: S-trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Road Bed Question > > From: Daniel Neumayer <Daniel@...> > > I have followed the recent discussions of road bed, but my question is > what > provides the best sound insulation. I live in a condo, and my trains run > over cabinets attached to the walls. The rumble of my trains can be heard > in the next unit. How can I best preserve the peace? > > Thanks for any thoughts, > Daniel. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1364	From: William Porter	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Quite Road Bed

Hi Daniel, I've had good luck with both cork and homasote for sound deadening properties. For maximum quiet, don't add ballast - just live with the appearance of track on whatever roadbed you choose. The glue that bonds the ballast material has been a better conductor of sound than no bonding. Good Luck, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1365	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Cork v Else

Hi all This is always a goodie eh?? Years ago I built using a material called Chipboard (here in Oz avaialble almost everywhere), material is similar to flooring sheet except not quite so dense and thinner, basically its roll formed sheeting made of glue and smaller chips, not like MDF which is Fibre board. Chipboard like plywood is fairly inert, doesnt expand or contract, though it will swell if subjected to extreme moisture.This was used on topn of classic "L" girder bench work. Anyways that aside, on top of this I laid a substance called Canite. From having been to your shores , this is kind of similar to Homasote. I found that handlaying through balsa ties into Canite/Homasote was easy and worked well, however...over time say couple years spikes worked a little loose. On mainline areas I also used 1/4'" cork over Canite on top of the chipboard. Never had a days trouble with this combo. Was reasonably quiet too, though I found the worse culprit for sound was the vacant insides of scenery, it echos....I found scrunched up newspaper killed off a lot of this sound. Current layout is section/module based using cheap Hollow Core doors (two panels with cardboard corrugating acting as reinforcement) trimmed to suit. On top of this is canite in track areas with 1/8" gasket cork laid on top. The cork holds spikes very well, the canite helps deaden the sound and is easily carves for terain, ...scenery I am to experiment for first time with Styrofoam. This method is very straight forward, though if your tempted to cut the homasote/canite with a power saw( do it at someone else's house!!)(with a mask) ..the cork I got as scraps from a business that supplies cork to the Auto Trade(Engine gaskets etc), means a bit of piecing together, but its reallllllll cheap...I also tend to look for damaged sheets of canite and everything else actually..(hell three doors for twenty bucks). The only other thing is some areas are being built at the desktop with all of the above mounted on 3mm MDF. Sounds very convoluted but it works for me. cheers :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1366	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Re: Homasote v Cork

You can eliminate much of the fuss of cutting Homasote by using the premade Homabed. This just started shipping again and the new owner is supposed to be making an S gauge version. I've used a mix of the sheets and HO Homabed on my Sn3 layout. No real problems in my PA basement location, but a run an dehumidifier in the basement in the summer, and the living quarters above the layout has AC. BTW, I only cut it in the layout room with a knife. If I use power tools, I cut outside in the yard. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1367	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Paint - zephyr

Hi Guy"S" ; I hope they make the Zephyr in "S" scale. I am making a model of the Mountain Division In Crawford Notch up in NH. This train was run there. So it would be a big plus for me. I think it would sell out quickly. Anyone have an E-mail address or web site for 3rd rail ? Now about paint: Someone asked, "why use white primer". Ever try to paint a light color on a dark surface ? The darker color wiil show through the lighter covering of paint. There may be exceptions. Light colored paints are best painted on a light colored primer. Darker primer is for darker final coates of paint. Roger Swing and sway the "S" guage way.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1368	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Re: WAL-MART CARS

>From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> <snip> > >Matchbox does have a 5 car box called CRAZY CLASSIC II, mostly junk, but >I paid $4.99 because it had the Oscar Meyer Weiner Mobile (maybe thats a >Philadelphia phenominum). The other four will be birthday presents for >children. > >Staying on NASG track, Glenn > I remember seeing a real Wienermobile at the Ford Museum in Dearborn, MI the last time I was there. I don't think its a Philly thing. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1369	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Re: roadbed pricing

In a message dated 1/27/99 6:10:17 AM, you wrote: <<Charles Ro sells O cork bed for $23.95 per case of 75 feet. That's over 33% less than the retail list price that both Port Lines and Scenery Unlimited charge for same length of S cork bed. >> I wasn't aware of this, but you are probably correct. It's unfortunate that Charlie Ro has absolutely no use or respect for AF, or S in general. Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1370	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 1/27/1999
Subject: Re: Quiet Road Bed

William Porter wrote: > > Hi Daniel, > > I've had good luck with both cork and homasote for sound deadening > properties. For maximum quiet, don't add ballast - just live with the > appearance of track on whatever roadbed you choose. The glue that > bonds the ballast material has been a better conductor of sound than > no bonding. > > Good Luck, > Bill Porter Amen. After ballasting 2 RASG modules very well with lots of ballast cement I couldn't believe how noisy the trains were on them compared to modules not yet ballasted. The roadbed was cork but it didn't seem to help much after lots of ballast was glued down. The track became a sounding board on it's own independent of the roadbed. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1371	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: What's up with Target and Racing Champions?

Hi All, It's getting really weird out here in the Pacific Northwest and I'm not talking about 16" foot prints. My local Target is closing out ALL of it's Racing Champion cars -- Mint Editions, Police USA, AND Nascar! We haven't seen any of the 1999-release Mint Editions out here and now it looks like our only reliable supplier of the little jewels is calling it quits. What's an S scaler/collector to do? Is anyone else noticing this trend? -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1372	From: Alex Randall	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Ceramic Villages

I wondered why there was all the enthusiasm over ceramic villages.. until today, I stopped into a garden shop that had the whole Department 56 line in stock and on display... What an excellent size! Do they have any idea how "S" this product is... Why aren't they displaying it with trains? My local Starbucks had one which I almost bought for Xmas, but had already decided to get a base of track and core equipment down. We are still operating on the dining room floor (we did get that stupid table out of there and all the other stupid stuff too.) so rubber roadbed is our speed. Does anyone have rubber roadbed to sell - used, or old, not the repro. Alex5th@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1373	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Racing Champs

IF your Target has any stock, check to see if they are on sale. My Target has a clearance sale on. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't live there. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1374	From: Bill Clark	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: cork vs homasote

I'm struggling with the cork vs homasote issue also. My club used homasote on our modular layout with all hand laid track. We're in New England and the layout lives in a trailer, but there has been no problem with the homasote. Our best hand-laid track man (Skip Readio) has used homasote for his layout, in his basement, and loves it. I'm currently working on a friend's layout which is cork on plywood. He has all AM flex track, except that he is hand-laying switches. Skip came over to show us how to do it, and built one right on the cork. I asked him if we should replace the cork with homasote where we are building switches, and he said no, the cork would work fine. My issue is that the spike holds well in homasote, and not at all in cork. So with the cork, its only being held by the tie. It seems to be working ok, but I'm concerned about long term. Maybe ballasting will help. I plan to hand lay most of my new layout, which will be in my cellar. My current plan is to use Homabed, to avoid most of the dust issues and support Scott. Sure hope it doesn't warp! Any other recommendations appreciated! Bill At 01:58 PM 1/27/99 -0800, you wrote: >From: Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> > >mhrreast@... wrote: >> >> I'm curious, what are the advantages of cork >> versus Homasote for roadbed? >> >I started using homasote on my 10X10 S-scale layout because of its >reputation (the homasote, not the layout). > >I am disappointed in it - it's not the panacea I expected. The first

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1375	From: John Foley	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: 3Rd Rail

Message: 15 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:42:50 -0800 From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> Subject: Paint - zephyr Hi Guy"S" ; I hope they make the Zephyr in "S" scale. I am making a model of the Mountain Division In Crawford Notch up in NH. This train was run there. So it would be a big plus for me. I think it would sell out quickly. Anyone have an E-mail address or web site for 3rd rail ? Hi Roger The web site address for 3rd Rail is http://www.3rdrail.com/ Scroll to bottom of openning page and click S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1376	From: Allen Evans	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Request for Roadbed Substitutes

Rubber Road Bed - I'm in the same predicament. I am using the floor of the living room for now. But I wonder if going over to an exercise equipment store and buying a sheet of gymanastic padding would work well for a roadbed. Seems like it might be stiff enough, yet light. Any comments or ideas from the floor on this? Allen Evans Covington, LA ===========================================

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1377	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Paint - zephyr

Hi Roger: Modelling Crawford Notch sounds fantastic! I've hiked the area--and some of the tracks, and that would be a terrific S-gauge effort. Good luck on the project. I'd like to see a progress report when and if you're ready. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-. ---

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1378	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Roadbed and Racing Champion Cars

With respect to roadbed: Why have the comments been either or? I know I have been accused of "overbuilding" on my layout but I have enjoyed the benefits. My subroadbed is 3/4 inch plywood. I use cork over homosote for the roadbed. This choice came very easy after testing homosote alone, cork alone and then the combination of the two. The difference in sound properties is dramatic. With the combination of the two, the "steady drone" noise is greatly reduced but I still get a very pleasant "clackity-clack" when rolling stock passes over rail joints. Basically, I have put homosote everywhere plywood subroadbed is to be found and then gone the one piece of "O" cork and one piece of "HO" cork route and found it works very well. In the yards I've used sheet cork. Homosote has been attached with the "screw and glue" technique. I use an "earth toned" acrylic caulk to attach the cork to the homosote. I have also experienced some of the difficulties communicated (no thickness control on homosote and some effects of dramatic humidity changes - which we get in spades in Minnesota - but time seems to cure all!) As to the Racing Champion cars: Target stores in the Twin Cities have also begun the process of clearing out Racing Champion. The Wal-Mart stores still have some stock but it sounds like they might start clearing out as well. Has anyone sent an email to Racing Champions and asked what is going on? I asked Target about their plans but the stock clerk I talked to either didn't know or wasn't talking. The SD-45 Conspiracy Guy (Inquiries continue - don't hold your breath but maybe, just maybe ......) Message: 1 Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:44:06 EST From: mhrreast@... Subject: Roadbed I'm curious, what are the advantages of cork versus Homasote for roadbed? The Rochester NY WalMart has one of the largest stocks of ME of any store in town. Ballast can be purchased from your pet store. Canary grit. Ballast can be purchased in bulk from your farm store; bird grit. It comes in several sizes. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't live there.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1379	From: michael prell	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Request for Roadbed Substitutes

This may be completely off the wall,(or ceiling, as the case may be) but, has anyone tried inexpensive ceiling tile (if there is such a thing. Inverted and cut to the right shape, wouldn't the interlocking configuration of the tile eliminate joint problems. I don't know. I'm just tossing this out for thought. Don't shoot me! ---Allen Evans <alevans@...> wrote: > > From: Allen Evans <alevans@...> > > Rubber Road Bed - > > I'm in the same predicament. I am using the floor of the living room for now. > > But I wonder if going over to an exercise equipment store and buying a sheet of > gymanastic padding would work well for a roadbed. Seems like it might be stiff > enough, yet light. > > Any comments or ideas from the floor on this? > > > Allen Evans > Covington, LA > > =========================================== > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1380	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Quite Road Bed

>From: "William Porter" <wpporter@...> >Subject: Quite Road Bed> > >Hi Daniel, > >I've had good luck with both cork and homasote for sound deadening properties. >For maximum quiet, don't add ballast - just live with the appearance of track >on whatever roadbed you choose. The glue that bonds the ballast material >has been a better conductor of sound than no bonding. > >Good Luck, >Bill Porter You may want to try using a matte (latex) glue for gluing both the ties (for handlaid) and ballast. You should be able to find it at art supply places. kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1381	From: L Montgomery	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Ceramic Villages

What did you think of the Dept 56 prices? Do you think Dept 56 collectors would be unwilling to spend more than a $100 for an S-scale (AF compatible) passenger train set with sectional (SHS?) track? By the way, I saw some really nice looking three globe street lights (not sure of manufacturer) for ceramic villages that I plan to get for next year's Christmas layout. They look identical to the ones in Bedford Falls. They come in sets of three and run on two AA cells (but I plan to use a seperate transformer). Monty --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:38:44 Alex Randall wrote: >From: "Alex Randall" <alex5th@...> > >I wondered why there was all the enthusiasm over ceramic villages.. until >today, I stopped into a garden shop that had the whole Department 56 line in >stock and on display... What an excellent size! Do they have any idea how >"S" this product is... Why aren't they displaying it with trains? >My local Starbucks had one which I almost bought for Xmas, but had already >decided to get a base of track and core equipment down. > >We are still operating on the dining room floor (we did get that stupid >table out of there and all the other stupid stuff too.) so rubber roadbed is >our >speed. > >Does anyone have rubber roadbed to sell - used, or old, not the repro. > >Alex5th@... > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1382	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Racing Champion Cars

"JOPKE, WALTER" wrote: >Has anyone sent an email to Racing Champions and asked what is going on? Hi Walt, I sent an e-mail to Racing Champions and here's the reply I just got: Kristin_Olichwier@... wrote: > > Kristin Olichwier > 01/28/99 08:16 AM > > Target has not discontinued the Racing Champions line of products. It > sounds like they have not stocked the 1999 products on their shelves yet. > You can also find out products in stores like Meijer, Wal-Mart, K-Mart and > Toys 'R Us. Thank you and have a good day.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1383	From: D Simon	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: WTB: 314AW Whistle Controller

Hi all I am looking to but an original controler for the whistle in the 314AW. I have seen 1 at the last show just as it was being purchased. Just my luck. I just got a super loking and running 314 and all I need now is the controler. If you have one for sale or know where I might find one please e-mail me off list thanks alot Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1384	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Road Bed Question

Dear Daniel, I have tried cork, homabed and vinyl. I like vinyl the best, but it takes a bit to get used to. I hand laid code 83 on some using basswood ties. As you drive the spikes with a pair of needle nose pliers, the vinyl tends to give and little and the ties push into it a little. Daniel Neumayer wrote: > > From: Daniel Neumayer <Daniel@...> > > I have followed the recent discussions of road bed, but my question is what > provides the best sound insulation. I live in a condo, and my trains run > over cabinets attached to the walls. The rumble of my trains can be heard > in the next unit. How can I best preserve the peace? > > Thanks for any thoughts, > Daniel. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1385	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Quite Road Bed

For ballast glue; try MATTE MEDIUM thinned 1/1 with water, It never totally dries, but remains pliable enough to stay quiet. See your art supply store for a jar about 3 in, cubed. William Porter wrote: > Hi Daniel, I've had good luck with both cork and homasote for sound > deadening properties. For maximum quiet, don't add ballast - just live > with the appearance of track on whatever roadbed you choose. The glue > that bonds the ballast material has been a better conductor of sound > than no bonding. Good Luck,Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1386	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: roadbed/noise

Real homosote is not hard to come by here in Michigan but the real stuff is fire resistive and can be close to $75 a 4 x 8 sheet and no advantage for RR use. Pseudo homosote (light grey color as is the other) is about $32 last pricing. But as others said the )(@*#$*)@#*$*( dust is a PAIN. My last layout, tho HO, used more or less modules with 1" rigid styrofoam insulation as the base. Over that was built scenery, etc., also of foam. Flex track was secured using waterbase floor tile adhesive, which dries somewhat resilient vs. hard like some glues do. Time will eventually harden the adhesive too. Ballast was simply dusted on and tapped in place to embed, vacuumed off a day later and recycled. Note there is a solvent based adhesive which smells and may be black and may attack plastic foam. I know its costly but no mention has been made of the rubber roadbed or gargraves- do not the wood ties on gargraves provide 'some' sound deadening? And as others have stated, fastening most any track into a hard substrate (plywood, chipboard, etc) will telegraph your sound into the base material and it acts more or less like a giant speaker to amplify the noise. Solution? In physics? How does one deaden sound? Two basic ways- mass or reduce diaphramatic(SP) action as occurs in a speaker. In other words U gotta add mass to the baseboard (means WEIGHT, not just bond some styrofoam to it) or minimise said action (which your resilient roadbed does UNTIL its secured in place by nails or an adhesive that dries hard). In my case using the full styrofoam board base there was some increase in noise level- the floor tile adhesive helped dampen that. As I ramble, I think one might want to try using the cork or homosote type roadbed but adhered to the substrate with the tile adhesive. Best of both worlds- a resilient adhesive and a resilient roadbed!!!!! And NO I would not use any nails, screws, or whatever. At turnouts, is it possible to use the 3 adjacent runs of track to hold them in place and NOT to use any adhesive? Dont think they are going anywhere- the switches that is. Rotsa Ruck! L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1387	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Roadbed:Cork vs. Homosote

Hey 'S'ers, There has been some good advice posted on this subject lately. Our club's experience confirms much of it. We used cork roadbed on our display layout (subroadbed is thermal insulation polyfoam board), adhered with carpenter's (yellow) glue. Model railroaders considerably more experienced than myself have told me that cork will dry out and crack with time. To help prevent this, we sealed it with a dilute (1:1) coat of latex paint (gray). We use ballasted AM flextrack (code 148). As has been mentioned in previous posts, the agent used to adhere the ballast and track to the roadbed is critical. I had assumed when starting that thermal insulation board would also be a good sound insulator. WRONG! We started out using matte medium as a bonding agent, but diluted it too much, resulting in some curved track coming loose. So, we switched to diluted white glue(1:1) which, when it dries, is like a rock. Good for a layout which gets moved around a lot. However, that coupled with the thermal (polyfoam) board turned into a great sound amplifier. My hypothesis is that matte medium, when dry, retains some elasticity which acts as a sound dampening agent, whereas white glue locks it down tight. So...our policy regarding ballast bonding agents is now: use white glue on sidings, yards and within 4-5 inches of track separation points (for extra strength); everywhere else (like mainlines), use full strength matte medium. You may be asking if it's worth all this trouble just to get ballasted track. And the answer is...YES. It looks great. That's the single most asked question we get:"how did you get your track to look like that?" I've also used homosote roadbed on my home layout (not portable). I utilized the precut homabed product to avoid having to saw the stuff. I sealed it with full strength latex paint (as the manufacturer recommends) to avoid problems with changes in humidity (yeah, we got plenty of that from winter to our 5 months of summer). I've been satisified with both types of roadbed material. I have never worked with vinyl roadbed, but have heard good things about it. Hope this helps. 'S'incerely, Jay Mellon Crescent City S Gaugers New Orleans, LA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1388	From: Richard Snook	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Dry cork!!

Fellow "S"cribers Ah dry cork...solution...lower the neck of bottle.... Seriously though, I have tried a number of different cork types( try and find a Cork (flooring) wholesaler) and in the end was put onto the cork type as used for engine, pump etc gaskets. Propeties for this grade seem very good for spike retention etc. also because its thinner it doesn't use up as much ballast if laid directly on Homasote or like.(again look for scraps, quite cheap, some was gratis) Recent trials with Matte medium as ballast bonder prove encouraging. Will now try to find wholesale source for larger quantity. I agree with Walte, the combination of cork over homasote works well. I use stud adhesive ( used by drywall installers) as opposed to white woodworking glue as it seems to be quieter (might just be my imagination). I have always found the sections with RTL track noisier than handlaid on wooden ties (either bass or balsa). :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1389	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Vehicles

I went to several downtown stores and bought 8 racing champions vehicles. Tried to choose carefully, but the fancy packages were hard to see thru. The scales printed on, when given, were the product of a wild imagination. Once home, I found that 4 were too small for S. Several were actually the same body type, artfully concealed. One had a convertible top that did not fit. Oh well, perhaps surrounding my trains with vehicles that are too small will have a pleasing effect. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1390	From: alice beachy	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Circus Sound Board

Hi everyone- I have decided I will never buy a "gold-plated" Gilbert circus train to play with so I will build my own. I will use flats and passenger cars like Gilbert did, but that is where the similarity will end. One of the things I would like to do is put some sound in one of the cars. I would like to have a caliope playing typical circus music as the train rolls around the layout. So far the only circus soundboard I have found was at QSI and that is too big for 3/16th scale trains. Anyone have any suggestions of where else to look? thanks, Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1391	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Circus Sound Board

Dear Wayne, Have you asked Mike of Real Rail Effects? He has a sound board that fits into our stock cars and as a bonus, he is an "S" gauger. Wayne Beachy wrote: > > Hi everyone- > > I have decided I will never buy a "gold-plated" Gilbert circus train to > play with so I will build my own. I will use flats and passenger cars > like Gilbert did, but that is where the similarity will end. One of the > things I would like to do is put some sound in one of the cars. I would > like to have a caliope playing typical circus music as the train rolls > around the layout. > > So far the only circus soundboard I have found was at QSI and that is > too big for 3/16th scale trains. Anyone have any suggestions of where > else to look? > > thanks, > Wayne Beachy > Atlantic Coast S Gaugers -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1392	From: Dave Heine	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Dry cork!!

>From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > <snip> >Recent trials with Matte medium as ballast bonder prove encouraging. Will now try to find wholesale source for larger >quantity. > You can try an art supply store like Dick Blick. http://www.dickblick.com You can get larger size containers of it there. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1393	From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Re: Apples to Oranges??

Charles, Adapting products made for one scale to use in another is a time honored practice. Before there was any such product as S cork road bed some modelers combined HO and O to make S. Some in our club are still doing this in spite of the availability of the product in S. There is more than one way to skin a cat and cost versus labor considerations may come into play. I merely offered the price differentials for informations sake. Therefore I do not believe my comparison is so far fetched as you make it to be. Why do you believe it to be so? In regards to advantages of cork versus homasote I don't have much to add to comments already made. I hope that cork is more stable in variable humidities as my old basement is not a very constant environment and I don't have plans to make it more stable. The homasote is really messy to cut with a saw and very time consuming and strenuous to cut with a knife. Ben Trousdale

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1394	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Chris' frozen wheel caboose question

Chris, Ah, c'mon, this isn't up to Dr. Brass' standards, I'm not even going to the site.<BG> The engineer forgot to back up first and take in the 'slack'. With the train stretched, even without the bad order axle on the caboose, the engine cannot start the train, to much stationary friction. Gotta start the train one car at a time! BTW, slack action is one reason that cabooses are no more, it can be deadly at the end of a train! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1395	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Code 3 Fire Engines

If you are thinking about adding a fire house to your layout... Target has reduced the price on the Code 3 line of 'super detailed' 1/64th fire engines. see http://www.hawkesbury.uws.edu.au/~armstrok/code3pu2.htm for examples. They used to be $20-$30 range, now they are the $12-$20 range There was reductions on the racing semis (from $10 down to 5.50) The HotRod stuff was also reduced. They are very nicely done. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1396	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Roadbed/Ballast

I would like to add my two cents to the roadbed/ballast discussion. I am presently using AM code 148 track on cork roadbed nailed to 3/8" plywood, the cork is painted dark gray, no ballast . I operate AM and SHS locos and the noise level is low, I can enjoy the wheels clicking over rail joints and thru turnouts. My local model train shop, Trains Ltd., has received some of the new SHS track and it is beautiful. I have ordered some of the 29"R curved track and when it arrives I am going to relay my out side loop using SHS track. If the SHS track performs as great as it looks, I'll will be converting over my entire layout(not a difficult task as my layout is only 8'x8'). So I look hopefully to the a future of a trouble free and highly realalistic track system. Just think, put it down, take it up and change it just like A.C.'s old but still reliable track system. Maybe I'll follow up with my own product review!!! 'S', Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1397	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Digest Number 121

"D Simon" says, >I am looking to but an original controler for the whistle in the >314AW. I have seen 1 at the last show just as it was being purchased. >Just my luck. I just got a super loking and running 314 and all I need >now is the controler. If you have one for sale or know where I might >find one please e-mail me off list My 314's had the whistle unit removed before I got them and I do not have a controller, but temporarily, would a lionel transformer with the "extra shot of juice" whistle controller not run the 314 whistle? charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1398	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Digest Number 121

BenTrous@... says, Subject: Re: Apples to Oranges?? >Charles, >... sake. Therefore I do not believe my comparison is so far fetched as you make >it to be. Why do you believe it to be so? > Ben, I guess I look at it as a finished product for a specific purpose; an item I use as is, without having to rebuild it or rework it to fit my use. Even though the stuff is the same material and basic shape, if it is not an exact fit to my use and I have to modify it to fit, to me it is an apple/orange. I understand what you are saying, and I too spend my money based on the net price of an item but I don't agree that one should assume all pricing is or should be the same because the material and configuration appear to be the same. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1399	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: CERAMIC VILLAGES AND TRAINS

The problem is a dealer won't show a train unless he has enough trains in stock to sell when asked. About 4 years ago an 0n30 trolley was produced to run on HO track and was shown with Dickensville Villages. I haven't seen it since. It was out of my price range. The Bachmann 0n30 set this year was listed at $249.95 in a regular retail outlet. I don't think a ceramic village collector will spend that much for a Christmas toy. That's why I startered the S gauge starter set investigation. Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1400	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 1/28/1999
Subject: Another Roadbed Material

I have had excellent results with Vinylbed. They have two thicknesses specifically cut for us in S. As the name implies, the material is vinyl, and it does absorb sound, it flexes down to a 19 inch radius. It is one piece, i e, no centerline. Block sheets are available too for turnouts and crossings. It cuts easily with a sharp utility knife. I nailed (bradded?) mine to half inch plywood. American Models track glues on fine with Champs (the decal folks) Resibond glue. Just weigh it down or clamp for the required two hours. Vinylbed is available from: Hobby Innovations Rt 3 Box 226 Mountain City, TN 37683 Alan Udy Idaho Falls ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1401	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Trainstuff

In the January Mainline Modeler, pg. 4, there is an ad for Trainstuff LLC of Milford CT which offers cast resin shells and structures in HO and S. Anyone know what kind of stuff they have. cheers Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1402	From: michael prell	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Just For The Fun Of It!

The following may not fit into any general category regarding S-gauge collectors/operators, but as a long-time fan of toy trains in general, I believe it to be symbolic of what this Hobby is. If not, Then maybe it should be. About two years ago, while attending the yearly Train Fair held at the New York State Fair Grounds in Syracuse, I came across a gentleman who had quite an exhibit of 0-gauge cars that he had salvaged and restored to very nice individual works of art. I remember him to be an older member of the community who just liked, "fixing up old cars". I never learned of his name, but I do remember his work. One could tell from the gleam in his eyes that he was not in it for profit, but for fun. The man and his display wasn't at this year's Fair. I don't know why, although I suspect the worse. Folks like this are why I continue to enjoy this Hobby. It seem to matter to him if he had "rare" stuff or not. He just plain liked trains, and that was good enough for him. Sometimes it sure seems that we get so wrapped up in specific aspects, that we fail to see the forest from the trees. I thank this man for pointing this out to me. It was quite a nice gift.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1403	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Fire Engines

In message <36B1A4E1.6DEA34B7@...>, Paul Yorke <yorke@...> writes >From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> > >If you are thinking about adding a fire house to your layout... >Target has reduced the price on the Code 3 line of 'super detailed' >1/64th fire engines. >see http://www.hawkesbury.uws.edu.au/~armstrok/code3pu2.htm for >examples. >They used to be $20-$30 range, now they are the $12-$20 range The Code 3 WWW site is excellant - certainly worth visiting and book marking. However all of the fire engines are modern. Is there a range of older fire engines? I'm looking for someting suitable for a early 1950s Wisconsin Northwoods layout, so a fire engine of 1940s era would seem applicable? Any WWW sites I can visit? Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1404	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Americn Model Builders Kits in S scale!!!

Hi All, I was just looking through the Walthers online listing and found the following American Model Builders S SCALE kits on adv. res. status: Manu Item, Description, Scale, Price, In Stock, Expected 152-75 Dill's Market S TBA N Indefinite 152-77 Sonny's Shack S TBA N Indefinite 152-78 Interlocking tower S TBA N Indefinite 152-79 Long Bell Lmbr Co skd shk S TBA N Indefinite 152-80 Springfield Depot S TBA N Indefinite 152-81 One story section house S TBA N Indefinite 152-82 Miner's Cabin S TBA N Indefinite 152-83 PE Style pass shelter 2/ S TBA N Indefinite 152-86 Two story house S TBA N Indefinite 152-87 Country Barn S TBA N Indefinite Let's see, I need one interlocking tower, three Springfield Depots, five two-story.... -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1405	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Re: Trainstuff

Alex Binkley wrote: > > In the January Mainline Modeler, pg. 4, there is an ad for Trainstuff LLC of > Milford CT which offers cast resin shells and structures in HO and S. Anyone > know what kind of stuff they have. > Hi Alex - I visited their website and saw your comments. My guess is that it is a new company (perhaps only one man) who is starting to produce and is looking for a market. His structures sound interesting - too bad there were no pictures but they are coming. I also left a couple of notes pushing S. - need to grab all opportunities. Art

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1406	From: John	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 121

Hello, I also have a 314 and ran into the same problem to blow the whistle. be advised that a little while ago, there was an article in a magazine on how to make a whistle controller from radio shack parts. I will look for the article and see if I could find it for you. John -----Original Message----- From: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Friday, January 29, 1999 7:47 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 121 > >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > >There are 25 messages in this issue. > >Topics in today's digest: > > 1. Ceramic Villages > From: "Alex Randall" <alex5th@...> > 2. Racing Champs > From: mhrreast@... > 3. Re: cork vs homasote > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > 4. 3Rd Rail > From: John Foley <foley164@...> > 5. Request for Roadbed Substitutes > From: Allen Evans <alevans@...> > 6. Re: Paint - zephyr > From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alex.ai2q@...> > 7. Roadbed and Racing Champion Cars > From: "JOPKE, WALTER" <jopke@...> > 8. Re: Request for Roadbed Substitutes > From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > 9. Re: Quite Road Bed > From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun) > 10. Re: Ceramic Villages > From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...> > 11. Re: Racing Champion Cars > From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...> > 12. WTB: 314AW Whistle Controller > From: "D Simon" <aftrain@...> > 13. Re: Road Bed Question > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > 14. Re: Quite Road Bed > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > 15. roadbed/noise > From: LARSPAINTR@... > 16. Roadbed:Cork vs. Homosote > From: "Mellon, Jay E." <jmellon@...> > 17. Dry cork!! > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > 18. Vehicles > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > 19. Circus Sound Board > From: alice beachy <abeachy@...> > 20. Re: Circus Sound Board > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > 21. Re: Dry cork!! > From: "Dave Heine" <dheine@...> > 22. Re: Apples to Oranges?? > From: BenTrous@... > 23. Chris' frozen wheel caboose question > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > 24. Code 3 Fire Engines > From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> > 25. Roadbed/Ballast > From: TPDavis7@... > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:38:44 -0600 > From: "Alex Randall" <alex5th@...> >Subject: Ceramic Villages > >I wondered why there was all the enthusiasm over ceramic villages.. until >today, I stopped into a garden shop that had the whole Department 56 line in >stock and on display... What an excellent size! Do they have any idea how >"S" this product is... Why aren't they displaying it with trains? >My local Starbucks had one which I almost bought for Xmas, but had already >decided to get a base of track and core equipment down. > >We are still operating on the dining room floor (we did get that stupid >table out of there and all the other stupid stuff too.) so rubber roadbed is >our >speed. > >Does anyone have rubber roadbed to sell - used, or old, not the repro. > >Alex5th@... > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:00:39 EST > From: mhrreast@... >Subject: Racing Champs > >IF your Target has any stock, check to see >if they are on sale. My Target has a clearance >sale on. > >Ted Larson >Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division >Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't live >there. > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:09:12 -0500 > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> >Subject: Re: cork vs homasote > >I'm struggling with the cork vs homasote issue also. > >My club used homasote on our modular layout with all hand laid track. We're >in New England and the layout lives in a trailer, but there has been no >problem with the homasote. Our best hand-laid track man (Skip Readio) has >used homasote for his layout, in his basement, and loves it. > >I'm currently working on a friend's layout which is cork on plywood. He has >all AM flex track, except that he is hand-laying switches. Skip came over to >show us how to do it, and built one right on the cork. I asked him if we >should replace the cork with homasote where we are building switches, and he >said no, the cork would work fine. > >My issue is that the spike holds well in homasote, and not at all in cork. >So with the cork, its only being held by the tie. It seems to be working ok, >but I'm concerned about long term. Maybe ballasting will help. > >I plan to hand lay most of my new layout, which will be in my cellar. My >current plan is to use Homabed, to avoid most of the dust issues and support >Scott. > >Sure hope it doesn't warp! > >Any other recommendations appreciated! > >Bill > >At 01:58 PM 1/27/99 -0800, you wrote: >>From: Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> >> >>mhrreast@... wrote: >>> >>> I'm curious, what are the advantages of cork >>> versus Homasote for roadbed? >>> >>I started using homasote on my 10X10 S-scale layout because of its >>reputation (the homasote, not the layout). >> >>I am disappointed in it - it's not the panacea I expected. The first > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:20:05 -0800 > From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: 3Rd Rail > > >Message: 15 > Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 19:42:50 -0800 > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> >Subject: Paint - zephyr > >Hi Guy"S" ; > > I hope they make the Zephyr in "S" scale. I am making a model of the >Mountain Division In Crawford Notch up in NH. This train was run there. >So it would be a big plus for me. I think it would sell out quickly. > > Anyone have an E-mail address or web site for 3rd rail ? > > Hi Roger > The web site address for 3rd Rail is http://www.3rdrail.com/ >Scroll to bottom of openning page and click S. > > > > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:31:20 -0600 > From: Allen Evans <alevans@...> >Subject: Request for Roadbed Substitutes > >Rubber Road Bed - > >I'm in the same predicament. I am using the floor of the living room for now. > >But I wonder if going over to an exercise equipment store and buying a sheet of >gymanastic padding would work well for a roadbed. Seems like it might be stiff >enough, yet light. > >Any comments or ideas from the floor on this? > > >Allen Evans >Covington, LA > >=========================================== > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:36:51 -0500 > From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alex.ai2q@...> >Subject: Re: Paint - zephyr > >Hi Roger: > >Modelling Crawford Notch sounds fantastic! I've hiked the area--and some of >the tracks, and that would be a terrific S-gauge effort. Good luck on the >project. I'd like to see a progress report when and if you're ready. > >Regards, > >Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-. > >--- > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:57:26 -0600 > From: "JOPKE, WALTER" <jopke@...> >Subject: Roadbed and Racing Champion Cars > >With respect to roadbed: > >Why have the comments been either or? I know I have been accused of >"overbuilding" on my layout but I have enjoyed the benefits. My subroadbed >is 3/4 inch plywood. I use cork over homosote for the roadbed. This choice >came very easy after testing homosote alone, cork alone and then the >combination of the two. The difference in sound properties is dramatic. >With the combination of the two, the "steady drone" noise is greatly reduced >but I still get a very pleasant "clackity-clack" when rolling stock passes >over rail joints. Basically, I have put homosote everywhere plywood >subroadbed is to be found and then gone the one piece of "O" cork and one >piece of "HO" cork route and found it works very well. In the yards I've >used sheet cork. Homosote has been attached with the "screw and glue" >technique. I use an "earth toned" acrylic caulk to attach the cork to the >homosote. I have also experienced some of the difficulties communicated (no >thickness control on homosote and some effects of dramatic humidity changes >- which we get in spades in Minnesota - but time seems to cure all!) > >As to the Racing Champion cars: > >Target stores in the Twin Cities have also begun the process of clearing out >Racing Champion. The Wal-Mart stores still have some stock but it sounds >like they might start clearing out as well. Has anyone sent an email to >Racing Champions and asked what is going on? I asked Target about their >plans but the stock clerk I talked to either didn't know or wasn't talking. > >The SD-45 Conspiracy Guy (Inquiries continue - don't hold your breath but >maybe, just maybe ......) > >Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 06:44:06 EST > From: mhrreast@... >Subject: Roadbed > > >I'm curious, what are the advantages of cork >versus Homasote for roadbed? > >The Rochester NY WalMart has one of the >largest stocks of ME of any store in town. > >Ballast can be purchased from your pet store. >Canary grit. >Ballast can be purchased in bulk from your >farm store; bird grit. It comes in several >sizes. > >Ted Larson >Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division >Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't live >there. > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 07:00:11 -0800 (PST) > From: michael prell <mlprell@...> >Subject: Re: Request for Roadbed Substitutes > > >This may be completely off the wall,(or ceiling, as the case may be) >but, has anyone tried inexpensive ceiling tile (if there is such a >thing. Inverted and cut to the right shape, wouldn't the interlocking >configuration of the tile eliminate joint problems. I don't know. I'm >just tossing this out for thought. Don't shoot me! > > > >---Allen Evans <alevans@...> wrote: >> >> From: Allen Evans <alevans@...> >> >> Rubber Road Bed - >> >> I'm in the same predicament. I am using the floor of the living >room for now. >> >> But I wonder if going over to an exercise equipment store and buying >a sheet of >> gymanastic padding would work well for a roadbed. Seems like it >might be stiff >> enough, yet light. >> >> Any comments or ideas from the floor on this? >> >> >> Allen Evans >> Covington, LA >> >> =========================================== >> >> >> >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >> List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >> > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:10:57 -0500 > From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun) >Subject: Re: Quite Road Bed > > > >>From: "William Porter" <wpporter@...> >>Subject: Quite Road Bed> >> >>Hi Daniel, >> >>I've had good luck with both cork and homasote for sound deadening properties. >>For maximum quiet, don't add ballast - just live with the appearance of track >>on whatever roadbed you choose. The glue that bonds the ballast material >>has been a better conductor of sound than no bonding. >> >>Good Luck, >>Bill Porter > > >You may want to try using a matte (latex) glue for gluing both >the ties (for handlaid) and ballast. You should be able to find >it at art supply places. > >kbt > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 15:29:50 -0000 > From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...> >Subject: Re: Ceramic Villages > >What did you think of the Dept 56 prices? Do you think Dept 56 collectors would be unwilling to spend more than a $100 for an S-scale (AF compatible) passenger train set with sectional (SHS?) track? By the way, I saw some really nice looking three globe street lights (not sure of manufacturer) for ceramic villages that I plan to get for next year's Christmas layout. They look identical to the ones in Bedford Falls. They come in sets of three and run on two AA cells (but I plan to use a seperate transformer). > >Monty >--- >Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ >Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. > > >On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:38:44 Alex Randall wrote: >>From: "Alex Randall" <alex5th@...> >> >>I wondered why there was all the enthusiasm over ceramic villages.. until >>today, I stopped into a garden shop that had the whole Department 56 line in >>stock and on display... What an excellent size! Do they have any idea how >>"S" this product is... Why aren't they displaying it with trains? >>My local Starbucks had one which I almost bought for Xmas, but had already >>decided to get a base of track and core equipment down. >> >>We are still operating on the dining room floor (we did get that stupid >>table out of there and all the other stupid stuff too.) so rubber roadbed is >>our >>speed. >> >>Does anyone have rubber roadbed to sell - used, or old, not the repro. >> >>Alex5th@... >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >>List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >> > > >-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- >http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:09:20 -0800 > From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...> >Subject: Re: Racing Champion Cars > >"JOPKE, WALTER" wrote: >>Has anyone sent an email to Racing Champions and asked what is going on? > >Hi Walt, > >I sent an e-mail to Racing Champions and here's the reply I just got: > >Kristin_Olichwier@... wrote: >> >> Kristin Olichwier >> 01/28/99 08:16 AM >> >> Target has not discontinued the Racing Champions line of products. It >> sounds like they have not stocked the 1999 products on their shelves yet. >> You can also find out products in stores like Meijer, Wal-Mart, K-Mart and >> Toys 'R Us. Thank you and have a good day. > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:45:23 PST > From: "D Simon" <aftrain@...> >Subject: WTB: 314AW Whistle Controller > >Hi all >I am looking to but an original controler for the whistle in the >314AW. I have seen 1 at the last show just as it was being purchased. >Just my luck. I just got a super loking and running 314 and all I need >now is the controler. If you have one for sale or know where I might >find one please e-mail me off list > >thanks alot > >Dave > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 16:41:15 -0500 > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> >Subject: Re: Road Bed Question > >Dear Daniel, > I have tried cork, homabed and vinyl. I like vinyl the best, but it >takes a bit to get used to. I hand laid code 83 on some using basswood >ties. As you drive the spikes with a pair of needle nose pliers, the >vinyl tends to give and little and the ties push into it a little. > >Daniel Neumayer wrote: >> >> From: Daniel Neumayer <Daniel@...> >> >> I have followed the recent discussions of road bed, but my question is what >> provides the best sound insulation. I live in a condo, and my trains run >> over cabinets attached to the walls. The rumble of my trains can be heard >> in the next unit. How can I best preserve the peace? >> >> Thanks for any thoughts, >> Daniel. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >> List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >-- >Don Thompson >S Helper Service Inc. >http://www.showcaseline.com >1.800.465.0303 > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 14 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 17:00:29 -0600 > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> >Subject: Re: Quite Road Bed > >For ballast glue; try MATTE MEDIUM thinned 1/1 with water, It never >totally dries, but remains pliable enough to stay quiet. See your art >supply store for a jar about 3 in, cubed. > >William Porter wrote: > >> Hi Daniel, I've had good luck with both cork and homasote for sound >> deadening properties. For maximum quiet, don't add ballast - just live >> with the appearance of track on whatever roadbed you choose. The glue >> that bonds the ballast material has been a better conductor of sound >> than no bonding. Good Luck,Bill Porter > > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 15 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:33:53 EST > From: LARSPAINTR@... >Subject: roadbed/noise > >Real homosote is not hard to come by here in Michigan but the real stuff is >fire resistive and can be close to $75 a 4 x 8 sheet and no advantage for RR >use. Pseudo homosote (light grey color as is the other) is about $32 last >pricing. >But as others said the )(@*#$*)@#*$*( dust is a PAIN. >My last layout, tho HO, used more or less modules with 1" rigid styrofoam >insulation as the base. Over that was built scenery, etc., also of foam. >Flex track was secured using waterbase floor tile adhesive, which dries >somewhat resilient vs. hard like some glues do. Time will eventually harden >the adhesive too. >Ballast was simply dusted on and tapped in place to embed, vacuumed off a day >later and recycled. Note there is a solvent based adhesive which smells and >may be black and may attack plastic foam. > >I know its costly but no mention has been made of the rubber roadbed or >gargraves- do not the wood ties on gargraves provide 'some' sound deadening? >And as others have stated, fastening most any track into a hard substrate >(plywood, chipboard, etc) will telegraph your sound into the base material and >it acts more or less like a giant speaker to amplify the noise. > >Solution? In physics? How does one deaden sound? Two basic ways- mass or >reduce diaphramatic(SP) action as occurs in a speaker. In other words U gotta >add mass to the baseboard (means WEIGHT, not just bond some styrofoam to it) >or >minimise said action (which your resilient roadbed does UNTIL its secured in >place by nails or an adhesive that dries hard). > >In my case using the full styrofoam board base there was some increase in >noise level- the floor tile adhesive helped dampen that. As I ramble, I think >one might want to try using the cork or homosote type roadbed but adhered to >the substrate with the tile adhesive. Best of both worlds- a resilient >adhesive and a resilient roadbed!!!!! >And NO I would not use any nails, screws, or whatever. At turnouts, is it >possible to use the 3 adjacent runs of track to hold them in place and NOT to >use any adhesive? >Dont think they are going anywhere- the switches that is. > >Rotsa Ruck! > >L. > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 16 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 18:50:08 -0600 > From: "Mellon, Jay E." <jmellon@...> >Subject: Roadbed:Cork vs. Homosote > >Hey 'S'ers, > >There has been some good advice posted on this subject lately. Our club's >experience confirms much of it. We used cork roadbed on our display layout >(subroadbed is thermal insulation polyfoam board), adhered with carpenter's >(yellow) glue. Model railroaders considerably more experienced than myself >have told me that cork will dry out and crack with time. To help prevent >this, we sealed it with a dilute (1:1) coat of latex paint (gray). We use >ballasted AM flextrack (code 148). As has been mentioned in previous posts, >the agent used to adhere the ballast and track to the roadbed is critical. >I had assumed when starting that thermal insulation board would also be a >good sound insulator. WRONG! We started out using matte medium as a >bonding agent, but diluted it too much, resulting in some curved track >coming loose. So, we switched to diluted white glue(1:1) which, when it >dries, is like a rock. Good for a layout which gets moved around a lot. >However, that coupled with the thermal (polyfoam) board turned into a great >sound amplifier. My hypothesis is that matte medium, when dry, retains some >elasticity which acts as a sound dampening agent, whereas white glue locks >it down tight. So...our policy regarding ballast bonding agents is now: use >white glue on sidings, yards and within 4-5 inches of track separation >points (for extra strength); everywhere else (like mainlines), use full >strength matte medium. You may be asking if it's worth all this trouble >just to get ballasted track. And the answer is...YES. It looks great. >That's the single most asked question we get:"how did you get your track to >look like that?" > >I've also used homosote roadbed on my home layout (not portable). I >utilized the precut homabed product to avoid having to saw the stuff. I >sealed it with full strength latex paint (as the manufacturer recommends) to >avoid problems with changes in humidity (yeah, we got plenty of that from >winter to our 5 months of summer). I've been satisified with both types of >roadbed material. I have never worked with vinyl roadbed, but have heard >good things about it. Hope this helps. > >'S'incerely, >Jay Mellon >Crescent City S Gaugers >New Orleans, LA > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 17 > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:00:28 +1000 > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> >Subject: Dry cork!! > >Fellow "S"cribers > >Ah dry cork...solution...lower the neck of bottle.... > >Seriously though, I have tried a number of different cork types( try and find a Cork (flooring) wholesaler) and in the >end was put onto the cork type as used for engine, pump etc gaskets. Propeties for this grade seem very good for spike >retention etc. also because its thinner it doesn't use up as much ballast if laid directly on Homasote or like.(again >look for scraps, quite cheap, some was gratis) > >Recent trials with Matte medium as ballast bonder prove encouraging. Will now try to find wholesale source for larger >quantity. > >I agree with Walte, the combination of cork over homasote works well. I use stud adhesive ( used by drywall installers) >as opposed to white woodworking glue as it seems to be quieter (might just be my imagination). > >I have always found the sections with RTL track noisier than handlaid on wooden ties (either bass or balsa). > >:-)) Richard > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 18 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:18:19 -0500 (EST) > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) >Subject: Vehicles > > I went to several downtown stores and bought 8 racing champions vehicles. >Tried to choose carefully, but the fancy packages were hard to see thru. >The scales printed on, when given, were the product of a wild imagination. >Once home, I found that 4 were too small for S. Several were actually >the same body type, artfully concealed. One had a convertible top that did >not fit. Oh well, perhaps surrounding my trains with vehicles that are >too small will have a pleasing effect. Tom Jarcho > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 19 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:25:42 +0000 > From: alice beachy <abeachy@...> >Subject: Circus Sound Board > >Hi everyone- > >I have decided I will never buy a "gold-plated" Gilbert circus train to >play with so I will build my own. I will use flats and passenger cars >like Gilbert did, but that is where the similarity will end. One of the >things I would like to do is put some sound in one of the cars. I would >like to have a caliope playing typical circus music as the train rolls >around the layout. > >So far the only circus soundboard I have found was at QSI and that is >too big for 3/16th scale trains. Anyone have any suggestions of where >else to look? > >thanks, >Wayne Beachy >Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 20 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:17:41 -0500 > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> >Subject: Re: Circus Sound Board > >Dear Wayne, > Have you asked Mike of Real Rail Effects? He has a sound board that >fits into our stock cars and as a bonus, he is an "S" gauger. > > >Wayne Beachy wrote: > >> >> Hi everyone- >> >> I have decided I will never buy a "gold-plated" Gilbert circus train to >> play with so I will build my own. I will use flats and passenger cars >> like Gilbert did, but that is where the similarity will end. One of the >> things I would like to do is put some sound in one of the cars. I would >> like to have a caliope playing typical circus music as the train rolls >> around the layout. >> >> So far the only circus soundboard I have found was at QSI and that is >> too big for 3/16th scale trains. Anyone have any suggestions of where >> else to look? >> >> thanks, >> Wayne Beachy >> Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > > >-- >Don Thompson >S Helper Service Inc. >http://www.showcaseline.com >1.800.465.0303 > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 21 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:26:48 -0500 > From: "Dave Heine" <dheine@...> >Subject: Re: Dry cork!! > > > >>From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> >> ><snip> > >>Recent trials with Matte medium as ballast bonder prove encouraging. Will >now try to find wholesale source for larger >>quantity. >> >You can try an art supply store like Dick Blick. > >http://www.dickblick.com > >You can get larger size containers of it there. > >Dave Heine > > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 22 > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:44:31 EST > From: BenTrous@... >Subject: Re: Apples to Oranges?? > >Charles, >Adapting products made for one scale to use in another is a time honored >practice. Before there was any such product as S cork road bed some modelers >combined HO and O to make S. Some in our club are still doing this in spite >of the availability of the product in S. > >There is more than one way to skin a cat and cost versus labor considerations >may come into play. I merely offered the price differentials for informations >sake. Therefore I do not believe my comparison is so far fetched as you make >it to be. Why do you believe it to be so? > >In regards to advantages of cork versus homasote I don't have much to add to >comments already made. I hope that cork is more stable in variable humidities >as my old basement is not a very constant environment and I don't have plans >to make it more stable. The homasote is really messy to cut with a saw and >very time consuming and strenuous to cut with a knife. > >Ben Trousdale > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 23 > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:58:12 -0800 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> >Subject: Chris' frozen wheel caboose question > >Chris, > Ah, c'mon, this isn't up to Dr. Brass' standards, I'm not even going to >the site.<BG> The engineer forgot to back up first and take in the 'slack'. >With the train stretched, even without the bad order axle on the caboose, >the engine cannot start the train, to much stationary friction. Gotta start >the train one car at a time! >BTW, slack action is one reason that cabooses are no more, it can be deadly >at the end of a train! >S' >David D. > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 24 > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:09:05 -0500 > From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> >Subject: Code 3 Fire Engines > >If you are thinking about adding a fire house to your layout... >Target has reduced the price on the Code 3 line of 'super detailed' >1/64th fire engines. >see http://www.hawkesbury.uws.edu.au/~armstrok/code3pu2.htm for >examples. >They used to be $20-$30 range, now they are the $12-$20 range >There was reductions on the racing semis (from $10 down to 5.50) >The HotRod stuff was also reduced. >They are very nicely done. > >-- >Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. >American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers >http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...) > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 25 > Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 07:48:46 EST > From: TPDavis7@... >Subject: Roadbed/Ballast > >I would like to add my two cents to the roadbed/ballast discussion. I am >presently using AM code 148 track on cork roadbed nailed to 3/8" plywood, the >cork is painted dark gray, no ballast . I operate AM and SHS locos and the >noise level is low, I can enjoy the wheels clicking over rail joints and thru >turnouts. My local model train shop, Trains Ltd., has received some of the >new SHS track and it is beautiful. I have ordered some of the 29"R curved >track and when it arrives I am going to relay my out side loop using SHS >track. If the SHS track performs as great as it looks, I'll will be >converting over my entire layout(not a difficult task as my layout is only >8'x8'). So I look hopefully to the a future of a trouble free and highly >realalistic track system. Just think, put it down, take it up and change it >just like A.C.'s old but still reliable track system. Maybe I'll follow up >with my own product review!!! 'S', Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C. > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1407	From: alice beachy	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: 40's era fire equipment

Hi Kelvin and all I have a 30's Mack B pumper, a 30's era Mack B tanker, and a late 20's era Ford pumper. All were imported by Matchbox and are super great detailing. Here's the catch. They are all VERY expensive and lately are only available as part of a complete set of fire trucks from around the world, in various scales. You know the get one every month for 39.95 (I don't remember the real price now) type deals. I had the buy the complete sets and sell off the ones I did not want, which took a while. This was an expensive way to get 3 correct fire trucks but being a firefighter it was worth it to me. Matchbox does put out a Christmas version of the Ford pumper with Santa sitting in the back as a single for 79.95 (I think). That looks great in the Christmas parade of a Christmas layout. I'm sure Matchbox has a web page but I don't know the address. None of their printed information gives scales, one has to call and ask. Good Luck. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1408	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: magnifier for close work = what?

OK so I am going BLIND trying to deal with those wipers in the tender reverse mech and looking closely at the motor assembly in that doggy Atlanatic I bot on EBay. Yeah I knew it was not tested nor running.... I have looked at- A drafting type lamp with a 2 or 3x magnifer with a circline fluorescent around it $60. A 'goggle' type unit that U can get a variety of powers ($17 each) of lenses for and it fits around the head with a band and has a light shield (SPACEMAN outfit) $32 A 2 x 4 inch plastic magnifier, have not found one with a stand yet...$10 +/- any recommendations? I am leaning towards the first one in spite of price. On the other hand maybe I should simply buy a 'decent' unit to start with! L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1409	From: michael prell	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: 314AW control information.

To the fella with the 314AW, in need of a control unit, the following: Check out Greenberg's American Flyer S-Gauge Operator's Operating and Repair Manual 1945-1965, by Thomas B. Barker. On page 49, you'll find information about such a unit, directions telling about how to build one and instruction about maintenance for the 314. Might be worth a look see. Good luck. ---John <jps2102@...> wrote: > > From: "John" <jps2102@...> > > Hello, I also have a 314 and ran into the same problem to blow the whistle. > be advised that a little while ago, there was an article in a magazine on > how to make a whistle controller from radio shack parts. I will look for > the article and see if I could find it for you. > > John > -----Original Message----- > From: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> > To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> > Date: Friday, January 29, 1999 7:47 AM > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 121 > > > > > >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > > >There are 25 messages in this issue. > > > >Topics in today's digest: > > > > 1. Ceramic Villages > > From: "Alex Randall" <alex5th@...> > > 2. Racing Champs > > From: mhrreast@... > > 3. Re: cork vs homasote > > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > > 4. 3Rd Rail > > From: John Foley <foley164@...> > > 5. Request for Roadbed Substitutes > > From: Allen Evans <alevans@...> > > 6. Re: Paint - zephyr > > From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alex.ai2q@...> > > 7. Roadbed and Racing Champion Cars > > From: "JOPKE, WALTER" <jopke@...> > > 8. Re: Request for Roadbed Substitutes > > From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > > 9. Re: Quite Road Bed > > From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun) > > 10. Re: Ceramic Villages > > From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...> > > 11. Re: Racing Champion Cars > > From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...> > > 12. WTB: 314AW Whistle Controller > > From: "D Simon" <aftrain@...> > > 13. Re: Road Bed Question > > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > > 14. Re: Quite Road Bed > > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > > 15. roadbed/noise > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > 16. Roadbed:Cork vs. Homosote > > From: "Mellon, Jay E." <jmellon@...> > > 17. Dry cork!! > > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > > 18. Vehicles > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > 19. Circus Sound Board > > From: alice beachy <abeachy@...> > > 20. Re: Circus Sound Board > > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > > 21. Re: Dry cork!! > > From: "Dave Heine" <dheine@...> > > 22. Re: Apples to Oranges?? > > From: BenTrous@... > > 23. Chris' frozen wheel caboose question > > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > 24. Code 3 Fire Engines > > From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> > > 25. Roadbed/Ballast > > From: TPDavis7@... > > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > >___________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > > > >Message: 1 > > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 03:38:44 -0600 > > From: "Alex Randall" <alex5th@...> > >Subject: Ceramic Villages > > > >I wondered why there was all the enthusiasm over ceramic villages.. until > >today, I stopped into a garden shop that had the whole Department 56 line > in > >stock and on display... What an excellent size! Do they have any idea how > >"S" this product is... Why aren't they displaying it with trains? > >My local Starbucks had one which I almost bought for Xmas, but had already > >decided to get a base of track and core equipment down. > > > >We are still operating on the dining room floor (we did get that stupid > >table out of there and all the other stupid stuff too.) so rubber roadbed > is > >our > >speed. > > > >Does anyone have rubber roadbed to sell - used, or old, not the repro. > > > >Alex5th@... > > > > > > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > >___________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > > > >Message: 2 > > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 06:00:39 EST > > From: mhrreast@... > >Subject: Racing Champs > > > >IF your Target has any stock, check to see > >if they are on sale. My Target has a clearance > >sale on. > > > >Ted Larson > >Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > >Just think how much deeper the ocean would be if sponges didn't live > >there. > > > >___________________________________________________________________ > >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > >___________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > > > >Message: 3 > > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:09:12 -0500 > > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > >Subject: Re: cork vs homasote > > > >I'm struggling with the cork vs homasote issue also. > > > >My club used homasote on our modular layout with all hand laid track. We're > >in New England and the layout lives in a trailer, but there has been no > >problem with the homasote. Our best hand-laid track man (Skip Readio) has > >used homasote for his layout, in his basement, and loves it. > > > >I'm currently working on a friend's layout which is cork on plywood. He has > >all AM flex track, except that he is hand-laying switches. Skip came over > to > >show us how to do it, and built one right on the cork. I asked him if we > >should replace the cork with homasote where we are building switches, and > he > >said no, the cork would work fine. > > > >My issue is that the spike holds well in homasote, and not at all in cork. > >So with the cork, its only being held by the tie. It seems to be working > ok, > >but I'm concerned about long term. Maybe ballasting will help. > > > >I plan to hand lay most of my new layout, which will be in my cellar. My > >current plan is to use Homabed, to avoid most of the dust issues and > support > >Scott. > > > >Sure hope it doesn't warp! > > > >Any other recommendations appreciated! > > > >Bill > > > >At 01:58 PM 1/27/99 -0800, you wrote: > >>From: Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> > >> > >>mhrreast@... wrote: > >>> > >>> I'm curious, what are the advantages of cork > >>> versus Homasote for roadbed? > >>> > >>I started using homasote on my 10X10 S-scale layout because of its > >>reputation (the homasote, not the layout). > >> > >>I am disappointed in it - it's not the panacea I expected. The first > > > > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > >___________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > > > >Message: 4 > > Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 09:20:05 -0800 > === message truncated ===

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1410	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: Continental Flyer

Well ! - - - Lookeee what I found in an antique shop. But first; - - A couple of decades ago someone was going to form a company called, "Continental Flyer". This was to be an answer to Gilberts end. Ahhhh; another company in "S" guage. But, - - - it wasn't to be. SO, I spot a box with trains in a antique shop. Hey! - - Gosh almighty. It says "Continential Flyer (in blue) Train set" (in yellow) on the box. Smoke,light & sound. Well! I am not going that to slip by. So I bought it :o) . Now I am going to tease you. I am not going to give a description or tell you where it came from. Clue: There is a logo of a maple leaf with a Y in the center. Lets see, who knows who made this Continental Flyer. OK you train whiz guy"S". Your response is? Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1411	From: busy-boy	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: Dear John Letter

Dear John: Thanks a whole bunch! How nice it was of you to send a complete digest of the entire previous days posts to everyone on this list. What joy it was for all to watch as this monumental document unfolded in each of our mailboxes. What a sport you are when it comes to spending someone else's bandwidth. John, old chum, would you mind NOT using REPLY when you wish to answer a post in the future? Just start a new e-mail message using S-Trains@onelist.com as the address. Most e-mail programs have a built in address book that will recognize and print out the complete address as soon as you hit the "S", once you've sent your first post, so there will be no more tiresome keystokes than you would experience by clicking on "Reply". On behalf of everyone here (who has already seen yesterday's posts), I thank you. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1412	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: Mistakes, Errors and Feet in Mouth

If anybody is going to belittle and publicly humiliate folks it should be me. Just kidding, we all make mistakes. And when people do and its something that is worth mentioning, I feel that it is my job ('job', does that imply 'pay') to send them a note and explain to them what they did. Thanks for all the help in these matters, but I think I can handle it. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1413	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: PLEASE DELETE

John hasn't learned to delete yet.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1414	From: RKuep44202@aol.com	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: Cork Roadbed

I have just completed the benchwork and first two levels of a 12' x 16' Flyer layout, and have started putting down cork roadbed I got from Scenery Unlimited. Although I used cork in N and HO before, I have been very disappointed with the difficulty of separating the two halves. I have tried paper shears, shop scissors, and various x-acto blades, all with the same result. The half that faces up comes out with a beautiful bevel, while the other half is very ragged. I have made a jig using a piece of wood cut at a 45 degree angle and can make an acceptable bevel with an x--acto knofe, but it's nothing like the other half. I'm trying to use the worst in tunnels or less visible locations. Anybody have any suggestions for a better result? Thanks for any help, because I've got a LOT of cork! Dick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1415	From: Dennis Back	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: Re: Cork Roadbed edge bevel

As for putting a bevel in cork roadbed, I used a bench grinder (stone grinding wheel) and held the cork at an angle. It puts a smooth edge on the cork. I taped a vacuum cleaner hose to the edge of the bench, as it got to be a mess. I didn't have to worry about edge accuracy too much as I put ballast over the cork. Dennis Back Miami, Fl.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1416	From: Michael Greene	Date: 1/29/1999
Subject: Re: magnifier for close work = what?

At 12:32 PM 1/30/99 -0500, LARSPAINTR@... wrote: >From: LARSPAINTR@... > >OK so I am going BLIND trying to deal with those wipers in the tender reverse >mech and looking closely at the motor assembly in that doggy Atlanatic I bot >on EBay. >Yeah I knew it was not tested nor running.... >I have looked at- >A drafting type lamp with a 2 or 3x magnifer with a circline fluorescent >around it $60. >A 'goggle' type unit that U can get a variety of powers ($17 each) of lenses >for and it > fits around the head with a band and has a light shield (SPACEMAN outfit) >$32 >A 2 x 4 inch plastic magnifier, have not found one with a stand yet...$10 +/- > >any recommendations? I am leaning towards the first one in spite of price. >On the other hand maybe I should simply buy a 'decent' unit to start with! Hi I've used your option 1 for a long while. I found it a fair bit cheaper at a mail order place that sends me regular catalogs. Unfortunately I remember the name, and I don't see a catalog around the house (usually look at them and discard.). Seems like it was 29.95 or 39.95. It has served me very well. Sorry to be unhelpful. I'll try to remember the name of mailorder place and post it when I do... I've avoided the visor/goggle models as I think they're uncomfortable. My most recent acquisition was from Walther's in a sale flyer my local dealer had. They're called Flip-Up Binocular from Donegan Optical. Don't remember the price -- under $30 as I recall. Basically a small 1" x 3" "two eye" magnifier. Comes in a variety of magnifications/focal lengths from (1 3/4 times to 2 3/4 times, 14" to 6" inch focal lengths). I really like them. They clip right on my eyeglasses, and flip up when not used. For those fortunate enough to not need glasses, they include a lightweight pair of plastic brow frames to which they clip. Very light, very portable, and always in front of your eyes... Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1417	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: PRS Reefers

Kit Builders: Have any of you purchased and assembled one of the new Pacific Rail Shops reefers? I've been building their kits for years and have always found them to be of very good quality, although sometimes challenging. i.e.: the directions are very vague. Anyhow, I finally bought a pair of the CB&Q reefers from the MESA club recently. This is a beautiful kit with very attractive graphics. However, I have found the parts to be extremley brittle and "unforgiving". The grab irons, brake shaft, etc. will snap at the slightest application of pressure. This is a problem when, after installing the side grabs and drop grabs, you continue to assemble and later notice parts already glued on are missing (snapped off, not fell out). I haven't experienced this with any of their previous box cars or ACF hoppers and wondered if we had a "bad" patch of plastic, or what. The roof walk supports require bending, as they are flat on the sprue. Be VERY careful doing this procedure! The slighest bend and they'll snap. Spent the afternoon piecing them back together, which is really too bad, as it detracts from an otherwise attractive car. Just wondered about the experiences of others with this kit. I have 1 more CB&Q reefer kit to go, then a few NYC/MDT cars I recently ordered. We'll see.... Best wishes, Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1418	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/30/1999
Subject: Re: magnifier for close work = what?

Well, I've always been somewhat 'blind', especially since I only use one eye at a time (No depth perception, don't ask me to catch a ball, or anything much else either!) But I *used* to be able to do this work with just my regular glasses. I've tried a few 'aids' and the one I've used for some time now is a visor that flips up when I don't want it (and often times flips down when I don't want it too!). Mine are made by General Hardware Co. and were purchased at a local tool store, for under $30. I also have a loupe that swivels down for the left eye for *real* close-up work. I know the lens is available in different strengths, in fact, I may be looking for a stronger one soon, although new glass may render the change unnecessary (hope, hope). Even with the magnifiers, I sometimes find reverse unit repair to be a 'black art'. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1419	From: jim	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Low cost rolling stock

It looks like we may soon have some low cost (about $15) rolling stock made available by Bachmann for their On30 sets. On30 works out to about the right size in standard "S". All you would have to do is change the trucks and wheels and you could have a pretty interesting item in "S". Check out the link below. http://www.bachmanntrains.com/bachmann/mainpage/start2.html Jim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1420	From: jim	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: List of low cost rolling stock suitable for S gauge

It looks like we may soon have some low cost (about $15) rolling stock made available by Bachmann for their On30 sets. On30 works out to about the right size in standard "S". All you would have to do is change the trucks and wheels and you could have a pretty interesting item in "S". This the list I found at their site. O Scale Spectrum(R) On30 PASSENGER CARS 26311 Coach- Great Northern $35.00 26312 Coach- Baltimore & Ohio 35.00 26314 Coach- Pennsylvania 35.00 26323 Coach- Colorado & Southern 35.00 26325 Coach- Wonderland 35.00 O Scale Spectrum(R) On30 CLOSED STREET CAR 25127 Christmas $50.00 25128 United Traction 50.00 O Scale Spectrum(R) On30 FREIGHT CARS 27014 Box Car- Pennsylvania $15.00 27214 Gondola- Pennsylvania 15.00 27314 Flat Car- Pennsylvania 15.00 27714 Caboose- Pennsylvania 15.00 27023 Box Car- C&S 15.00 27223 Gondola- C&S 15.00 27323 Flat Car- C&S 15.00 27723 Caboose- C&S 15.00

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1421	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: magnifier for close work = what?

Dear LARSPAINTR: There are no "decent" units! Everything is ancient and requires some TLC! Good luck finding a suitable magnifier. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1422	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Smoke units help

Hi, A big thank you to all who sent me information on getting the headlight of my 4-8-4 Northern. I'm happy to report that it is now running down the track with the headlight on in the forward direction as well as in reverse. Also got some good ideas I may use whin I convert to DC operation. Maybe someone can help out with the smoke unit. It puffs smoke great for about a minute or so and then stops. If I let the engine set for a while it will again smoke for a few minutes and stop again. It just won't continue to smoke. A repair manual I have suggest a non-flammable solvent may "loosen a wadded wick." Could that be the problem? Any help out there? What kind of solvent? Thanks again, Wayne

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1423	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Sound traxx

Hi Guy"S" ; I ordered the "Flying Yankee". It says (the add) the train is compatiable with DCC sound traxx. I am wondering if plain ole DC is OK? Can someone provide details (electronic ratings, price) of the Dcc sound traxx. Is there a brochure available for this power supply ? Pardon my ignorance I have been stuck in a plain ole AC and DC rut for many years. Untill now I had no need for a sound, power pack. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1424	From: Gale Hall	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: vehicles

In talking with my daughter, manager Toys WalMart store 1, she said that Racing Champions, Johnny Lightning, Hot Wheels and such come into the store on a non-replentishable basis......in other words the stores can't reorder the items when low, they have to wait for the shipment the buyers have arranged for that store to have. So perhaps she feels stores are just selling down stock prior to arrival of 1999 orders.... Gale Hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1425	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: vehicles

Gale, Well, this confirms my suspicions, as I almost NEVER see anything appropriate here. I figured the buyer for this area isn't interested in older vehicles, so doesn't order them. In two years of looking, I've only once found something useful, think it was a 40s pickup. However, I was in Chico the other day and found a white '36 ford convertible sedan in 1/59 scale, neat! I once restored one, so had to get it. At the Chico Hobbytown store, I found some simple car kits, around $5, some suitable for my layout, including a '15 T sedan--now if I can bash it into a touring, I can have MY car on the layout! I also picked up a Pierce Arrow, for the Railroad Baron to drive. Even though I'm in the early 50s period, we all know how miserly Rail Barons get as they age, so one would likely still be driving an older, true Classic automobile (Besides, everyong *knows* that real luxury cars died in the thirties). S' David D

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1426	From: William Porter	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Sound traxx

Hi Roger, The DCC they refer to is the NMRA Digital Command Control standard - far more than a power supply. There have been quite a few postings over the last month about DCC. Let me or others on the list know if you want a refresher in brief. Sound Traxx is a brand of decoder for DCC. They provide excellent sounds as well as locomotive and lighting effects parts. The folks at 3rd Rail mean that if you are a DCC guy and want sound, use the Sound Traxx chip for good results. Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> To: American Flyer forum <S-trains@onelist.com> Date: Sunday, January 31, 1999 11:47 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Sound traxx >From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > >Hi Guy"S" ; > I ordered the "Flying Yankee". >It says (the add) the train is compatiable with DCC sound traxx. > >I am wondering if plain ole DC is OK? > >Can someone provide details (electronic ratings, price) of the Dcc sound >traxx. Is there a brochure available for this power supply ? > >Pardon my ignorance I have been stuck in a plain ole AC and DC rut for >many years. Untill now I had no need for a sound, power pack. > >Roger > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1427	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Atlantic info-choo choo screw link info?

Looks like my Atlantic uses a shouldered screw and maybe a washer (metal or fiber?) between the 7/8" dia drive gear and the link? Hmmm maybe not, the hole in choo choo link is just barely larger than the OD of tapped hole. And same dia as the screw in back of drive gear casting to tender link. And it must have flat head to clear the casting on frame. However someone called it a 'pin' unless later versions did use a pin... L. Sure I will buy 'the book' most likely when this thing is running!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1428	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Cork roadbed, Homisote etc.

I Really can't see what all the fuss is about suppression of noise. I recently visited a place in northern Idaho called "The Funnel." This was part of the bus tour we took at S-West lll. I stood about 5 yds. and then 25 yds. away from a 110 car container train. Would you believe that it was actually noisy at both locations? Some people even told me it was noisy at 100 yds. away. Unless you live in an apartment house with your layout against a neighbors wall I would think that train "noise" would be most desirable. In all my years of S-Gauge I have only run American Flyer until recently. Much to my surprise other manufacturers use metal wheels on their rolling stock. I discovered to my delight that those little metal wheels go "Clickety Clack" on my Flyer track and switches and especially crossings. Wow, my rubber roadbed is history. I am going to enjoy all the train "noise" I can. I'll use cork under my new AM track but just to elevate it a little for the ballast......Just another thought...Steve Blackburn RMHR

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1429	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: New Pages

For anyone new to S-Trains (or the curious) I just created a page I call 'What the heck is S-Trains? and who is Paul Yorke? http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/whatis.htm and an S-Trains site map (to aide S-Trains navigation) http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/sitemap/sitemap.htm Enjoy -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1430	From: kelvin white	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Low cost rolling stock

In message <36B4204F.45BC41CE@...>, jim <webmaster@...> writes >It looks like we may soon have some low cost (about $15) rolling stock >made available by Bachmann for their On30 sets. On30 works out to about >the right size in standard "S". All you would have to do is change the >trucks and wheels and you could have a pretty interesting item in "S". Longs CA were advertising in Feb 99 MR as having the locomotive available seperately @ $89.98 and the passenger cars @ $22.97 + shipping - Passenger car train boxed set has just made it into the UK hobby shops as well. -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1431	From: David Dewey	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Atlantic info-choo choo screw link info?

Lars, Hmm, I'm confused, but I'll post what I know about the smoke unit drive gear. It is fastened to the chassis with a pressed in serrated pin that has a shoulder that fits the gear. The gear has a recess that the pin's head fits inside. The piston pin crank is screwed onto the gear with a side rod hex shouldered screw. The crank is pinned to the piston with a smooth, round ended pin that is a sliding fit. You have to be careful pulling or inserting the gear pin, or you will snap the cast-in mount. I use a small piece of tubing to support the mount while driving in the pin. Hmm, maybe a factory LC coupler removal tube would work?? I take off the crank and support the gear when pulling (actually pushing) the pin. Is this clear as mud?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1432	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: 1938 Fire Truck

Hi Kelvin, 1938 Ford Fire Engine These come from England, so they are not the easiest to find here in the US, but they are very nice. http://www.daysgone.com/dg79.html 1938 Ford Fire Engine Photos of other Days Gone By items are at the following web sites. Be careful; try and buy these vehicles in person. Some are less than 1:64th scale, others are larger. The 1938 Ford is VERY close to S scale. The autos are typically oversize. The mid-60's GMC is a bit undersize. Medium size trucks are typically close to correct. http://www.daysgone.com/dgp1.html http://www.pricars.com/ ========================== Lots of REALLY Excellent comments on roadbed and adhesive. Thanks. ========================== To eliminate attaching "The WHOLE Message" when you REPLY, if you are using Netscape 3, Click on OPTIONS, MAIL AND NEWS PREFERENCES, COMPOSITION There is a box that says, "Automatically quote original message when replying." Make sure that this box is NOT X'ed! Then you should be able to REPLY and send ONLY what you type. If you want to quote a bit of the message to help make your point, you can still do this by using "cut and paste." ======================================= MAGNIFIERS - Many craft and sewing stores sell a low cost magnifier that clamps to a workbench. ========================================= PRS Reefers have fragile parts - OH OH - Sounds like someone might have had the heat up to high on the molding press, or maybe someone did not throw away enough shots after the press had been restarted after standing idle, or maybe too much regrind in the plastic, or maybe some contaminated material.................... Write to where you bought the kit, tell them what you told us, and ask for replacement parts. ========================================= http://www.railfan.com/linksto.html Interesting Site !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and another!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.neuro.ccf.org/~bejm/Rail/Signal/index.html Railway Signalling and Operations FAQ Introduction This FAQ is still in its infancy and incomplete. Several people have contributed to it in greater or lesser degrees; ============================================ Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division SUPER SUNDAY - FEB. 14 WWW.NASCAR.COM ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1433	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 123

I seem to recall reading in Classic Toy Trains about a year ago that Gilbert used the Continental Flyer name for American Flyer product sold in Canada. Vic Bereskin >Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 15:38:34 -0800 > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> >Subject: Continental Flyer > >Well ! - - - Lookeee what I found in an antique shop. > >But first; - - A couple of decades ago someone was going to form a >company called, "Continental Flyer". This was to be an answer to >Gilberts end. > >Ahhhh; another company in "S" guage. But, - - - it wasn't to be. > >SO, I spot a box with trains in a antique shop. >Hey! - - Gosh almighty. > It says "Continential Flyer (in blue) Train set" (in yellow) on the >box. >Smoke,light & sound. > Well! I am not going that to slip by. So I bought it :o) . > >Now I am going to tease you. I am not going to give a description or >tell you where it came from. > > Clue: There is a logo of a maple leaf with a Y in the center. > >Lets see, who knows who made this Continental Flyer. > > OK you train whiz guy"S". Your response is? > >Roger >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1434	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: CONTINENTAL FLYER

I remember the 50's. Many items in Canada were modified for some reason. Fords had different grilles and taillights than those sold in America. A.C. Gilbert must have developed sets for Canada under that label. Hey Alex this ones for you. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1435	From: A50flyer@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: 314 control

314 control A flyer friend in yuma ,az makes an aftermarket control that works great. he was a military electron spec. it's a2-3 box @ about $27. E mail me for address. marty wik a50flyer @aol. com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1436	From: A50flyer@xxx.xxx	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: road bed

layout builders, i mentioned a product i used for my road bed several months ago and received only a few responses. The product is ground cork adhesive tape. You don't need nails and it allows the track to expand and contract. It also provides ajustment for super elevation. It's like the "instant roadbed" product, but industrial grade and more adhesive. I have used it in 120 degrees to freezing with success for over 3 years. It also sound proofs the track, so you can hear the rail sounds. I sell it for $17.95 for 30 feet. Send self-addressed stamped envelope for a free sample to: Marty Wik 31029 N. Rancho Caliente Dr. Cave Creek, AZ 85331 a50 flyer@aol,com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1437	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Hobby Surplus carries two reasonably priced magnifiers. One clamps to a work table or bench and magnifies to 175%. It has a "4" diameter optically ground quality lens", is illuminated (with a 60W light bulb, has a 30" long blanaced arm, and is "on sale" for $24.99 (they claim it was $50, but they have been selling it at this sale price for over 3 years). It is order #612464. The second is a third hand with a 2" magnifier lens (unlighted) added to a stand with 2 alligator clips. It is a $16 "value" and is "Only $9.99." Order #CHD 3102. Both items are located on page 126 of their 98-99 Buyers Guide. Call 1/800/233-0872, fax to 1/860/225-5316 or write to Hobby Surplus Sales, 287 Main Street, P.O. Box 2170, New Britain, CT 06050-2170. Joe == Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ############## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1438	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Cork roadbed, Homisote etc.

It is not just a case of noise suppression, but a case of having a sense of realistic noise. On the positive side; When Doc Johnson in St. Louis was alive and active, he insisted on steel wheels because he thought they sounded more realistic than aluminum ones. He even notched some of his rails every 33 scale feet to get sufficiently frequent joint clicks. Some years ago, an NASG contest had a Shay steam engine running on track that was built so quiet you could hear the gears, rods, etc., on it. I am sure there are other examples without introducing the whole different world of electronic simulation and reproduction. Those of us who think of noise suppression are thinking only of unrealistic drumming, vibrations, and racket caused by stiff roadbed materials, use of nails or screws at roadbed level instead of glue, or use of a glue that dries to a hard shell. I agree, this is subjective to a great extent and had not been dealt with much in the model rail press. I think Model Railroader did some articles years ago. I certainly don't want to get anyone in an uproar about it, but any way I can improve me little work in this hobby, I'm game for. dje Boss31@... wrote: > From: Boss31@... > > I Really can't see what all the fuss is about suppression of noise. I recently > visited a place in northern Idaho called "The Funnel." This was part of the > bus tour we took at S-West lll. I stood about 5 yds. and then 25 yds. away > from a 110 car container train. Would you believe that it was actually noisy > at both locations? Some people even told me it was noisy at 100 yds. away. > Unless you live in an apartment house with your layout against a neighbors > wall I would think that train "noise" would be most desirable. In all my years > of S-Gauge I have only run American Flyer until recently. Much to my surprise > other manufacturers use metal wheels on their rolling stock. I discovered to > my delight that those little metal wheels go "Clickety Clack" on my Flyer > track and switches and especially crossings. Wow, my rubber roadbed is > history. I am going to enjoy all the train "noise" I can. I'll use cork under > my new AM track but just to elevate it a little for the ballast......Just > another thought...Steve Blackburn RMHR > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1439	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 1/31/1999
Subject: Re: Mistakes, Errors and Feet in Mouth

Paul--you should be saluted as the guiding expert. I tell people that my computer knowledge compares to the gal who bought herself a living bra and didn't know what to feed it. Paul Yorke wrote: > From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> > > If anybody is going to belittle and publicly humiliate folks it should > be me. > Just kidding, we all make mistakes. And when people do and its something > that is worth mentioning, I feel that it is my job ('job', does that > imply 'pay') to send them a note and explain to them what they did. > Thanks for all the help in these matters, but I think I can handle it. > > -- > Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. > American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1440	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Continental flyer

While I was a wee lad during the 1950s, I did have an American Flyer train. Never heard of a Continental Flyer. Perhaps V Neimans who is on this list can tell you more. Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1441	From: TerryMacE@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: AF Knuckle Coupler Problems

Greetings, Are there any practical tips that anyone has for insuring that Knuckle couples don't open when the train is run across an AF Switch. The couplers that are causing the problems seem to be adjusted as high as the trucks will allow. I'd sure appreciate anyone's thoughts or suggestions. Terry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1442	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Continental flyer

Alex Binkley wrote: > > From: "Alex Binkley" <alex.binkley@...> > > While I was a wee lad during the 1950s, I did have an American Flyer train. > Never heard of a Continental Flyer. Perhaps V Neimans who is on this list > can tell you more. Continental Flyer was a company that was going to reintroduce AF trains under the Continrntal Flyer logo quite a few years ago. I can't remember how long ago but I might have read about it in the S Gauge Herald magazine. They somehow had access to some Flyer tooling (I thought Lionel owned it all). Think they had to use CF as a name because Lionel owned the AF name. Don't recall ever reading that it fizzled, we just quit hearing about it. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1443	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: AF Knuckle Coupler Problems

TerryMacE@... wrote: > > From: TerryMacE@... > > Greetings, > > Are there any practical tips that anyone has for insuring that Knuckle couples > don't open when the train is run across an AF Switch. The couplers that are > causing the problems seem to be adjusted as high as the trucks will allow. > > I'd sure appreciate anyone's thoughts or suggestions. > > Terry If they hit at all they aren't adjusted high enough yet. You may have to bend the truck mounting arms up a tad. If you're sure they aren't hitting you may have some "hair trigger" knuckles that may be jiggling loose from bouncing over the frog junction or other rough spot in the track. I had this happen with a Lionel AF car. Short of running slower or replacing the coupler there is no fix I know of for one of these. Suggestions anyone? Try going slower over the switches. If this cures it then try to isolate the couplers that open at higfher speed. Keep us posted. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1444	From: William H Trefts	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Magnifier

Greetings, I am new to the list, and appreciate Paul for adding me to it. Here is my 2 cents worth on the magnifier. Someone described the magnify glass with 2 clamps available from Hobby Surplus. Check Wal-Mart and other discount stores. (We have "Grandpa Pidgeons" here in St. Louis.) They will have a "truckload of values" display of cheap tools. I have seen, and bought the same item for $6.99. The lighted magnifier may be available through Harbor Freight. I have a flyer in front of me, but I don't see anything in this issue other than a set of eye held loupes. They have a web site: http://www.harborfreight.com A word of warning. Like J.C. Whitney, once you order from them, be prepared for an onslaught of catalogs! I'm enjoying reading all the posts that are coming through, have been printing them out, and hope to be able to refer back to them in the future. Thank"S", everyone! ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1445	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Continental Flyer

I have a Continental Flyer set from Japan that I bought over E-bay a month or so ago. It is battery powered and approximately S-gauge. This set was briefly mentioned about 15 years ago in S-Gaugian. -Roy Plotnick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1446	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Digest Number 123

LARSPAINTR@... says, >Subject: magnifier for close work = what? > >OK so I am going BLIND Me too! .......stuff deleted......... >A 'goggle' type unit that U can get a variety of powers ($17 each) of lenses >for and it fits around the head with a band and has a light shield >(SPACEMAN outfit) $32 >any recommendations? I use this one in 10X power. It goes where I go with my eyes rather than the work having to come to it; because there are lots of other small things I have to look at besides trains. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1447	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Continental flyer

OK, I remember a Continental Flyer plastic train set, made overseas, battery operated, I think. Seems to me I saw it some years ago, though. Is this what the question is about. Maybe it was a New Bright product?? Was a little larger than HO, but I think smaller than S too. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1448	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: AF Knuckle Coupler Problems

Terry, Knuckle couplers can be frustrating at times! Sometimes the weight can become loose from the 'J' hook and slip down a bit, just enough to hang down and get bumped by switche, rerailers, early uncouplers, etc. etc. Check for this. if it's your problem, I usually use needle nose pliers to squeeze them back up on the hook, then I have a narrow punch, like a nail set but without the recess in it, and another punch that is shaped like the indent the the factory put on these (a small chisel point, sort looks like this - on the end, and that's about full size! Trick is to clamp the narrow punch in the vise, set the truck & coupler on it, so it's in the small circular recess of the weight, then lightly tap the other side in it's reces with the chisel point one so it's tight again. I'm wondering if all this manuvering could be eliminated by a drop of super glue?? I'd be afraid it would wick up the J hook and glue it to the coupler body. The other thing to watch for is the truck sideframes may be bent--well actualy the sheet metal frame is what gets bent. by grabbing the side frame bottom and the top where the sheet metal is crimped on it (needle nose pliers again), you can twist the sideframe so the coupler rides higher. Be careful to twist both sideframes equally so that both axles stay parallel to each other, otherwise you've introduced a whole new problem to figure out!! Also be sure you have the sideframe & sheet metal securely clamped in the plier jaws, so you don't loosen the sideframe from the sheet metal! Non-parallel axles on tender trucks can cause intermittent power losses, especially over switches. Boy I hope this is all clearer than mud! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1449	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: thanx all for info, gonna hurry up and slow down...

Appreciate the replies on some of my basic questions. Last nite after using a small loupe and a flashlight I find the tender relay is missing one finger on lower side and one on upper side almost worn thru. Along with dealing with soldering one frazzled lead to loco, enuf already (for now)- remembering my 'I dont wanna be a watchmaker' concept earlier!!!! Will be browsing the web to determine detailed info on switching to DC (evidently eliminates the tender relay ) and using a DC PPack. Could not test loco since nowhere did I find in AF repair sites how to test loco directly (simply one lead to each brush?). My beginners set will rest a while, me too tho continue to read posts and ask wierd questions! What has been esp decent has been the lack of Growwwwwwwwwling about newby type requests. I will try to use that as a model (pun?) since we all can get tired of the same o same o. Regards- L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1450	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Continental Flyer

I deduce from the various postings on the subject over the past few days that the "Continental Flyer" set discovered by Roger Hinds is probably a mate to the battery-powered set bought recently by Roy Plotni and made not by any Continental Flyer company but in Japan. Certainly not by Gilbert, who produced only two cars (a CP flat and a CN reefer) aimed at the Canadian market. There seems to be some confusion which I think is caused by the name "Continental." This may go back to the mid-1920s when Flyer under Coleman produced not only the Dominion Flyer cars but also a "Hummer"set purporting to represent what was then a new train on Canadian National, the Continental. Whatever the explanation, it's remarkable that these two sets have surfaced in bang-bang succesion. Let's hear if there are any more. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1451	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: thanx all for info, gonna hurry up and slow down...

Hi Larspainter: With respect to using Dc to power your locos, keep in mind that reversing the track polarity (with a DPDT switch) will indeed reverse the direction of a universal motor as used in most American Flyer locos, BUT it will reverse the direction of ALL the engines on the trackage that's being reversed! That really doesn't lend itself to multi-engine prototypical--or even fun--operations. If you find the old fashioned original electro-mechanical reversing units to be balky, why not install a solid-state reversal unit with built-in relays? I use the QSI boards supplied to me by Doug Peck at Port Lines Hobbies. If you prefer DC, you can choose a DC version of the QSI board; I use the ac versions. I'm not sure Port Lines has the DC versions. Doug supplies these boards in lickety-split fashion. By the way, an advantage is that the QSI boards have a long time-constant response. That means they won't trigger and cause a "neutral" or "reverse" when they encounter slight power intermittents, such as when going over an A.F. turnout frog. They're really nice, very small, and only cost about $35 to $45 a pop. As to your other question: when I test my locos on the bench I happen to use DC, as I have a regulated and variable DC power supply there. I apply power to the tender pick-ups with clip leads. The reason for doing this is that it ensures a test of ALL the electrical components--perhaps with the exception of the actual pick-ups or axle brushes themselves (but that's an easy separate test). You can use a spare transformer for testing (it supplies ac). The mechanical reversal units like to be operated with the tender upright--otherwise gravity prevents proper operation. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1452	From: buzz davis	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: reverse loop

A few questions: I read in a recent post that Bachman is offering some cars which might be usable for S gauge if one were to purchase trucks and wheels. Who is the manufacturer of the trucks and wheels and where can they be acquired. Is there a schematic of how to build a reverse loop kit anywhere or does someone know how to put one of these together from easily available parts ?? Thanks in advance. Buzz Davis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1453	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: NASG Dispatch

Hi Dody Just a quick note to say that the December issue of NASG dispatch arrived today - normal mailing dispite assurance of air-mail posting - I'll see you in July and bring some air mail stickers with me!!! -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1454	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Continental Flyer

Hi Again; Roy Plotnick was the first person to identify the Continental Flyer. It was made in Japan. There is a Maple leaf with a Y in the center of the leaf. Item # 167 is printed on the box. It runs on 2 "D" cell batteries. (Not the box --- the train) It measures about 1 1/64 " between the rails. Which are plastic. The loco shell (Steam) and tender is plastic. The loco chassis & connecting rods are made of tin. The loco # is c.156 A red tin cabbose - no coupola - no number. A orange tank car with the "Shell" logo. Tin , no number. Al cars have knuckle couplers. There is no manufactures name on the box. Gee ---- Does this make me a big time model railroader now ? :o) Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1455	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Sound traxx

Dear Roger, For Soundtraxx try: http://www.soundtraxx.com for soundtraxx stuff. Give Nancy or Steve an e-mail message and they are really nice and knowledgeable. They now have a steam sound and EMD first generation diesel. Roger Hinds wrote: > > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > > Hi Guy"S" ; > I ordered the "Flying Yankee". > It says (the add) the train is compatiable with DCC sound traxx. > > I am wondering if plain ole DC is OK? > > Can someone provide details (electronic ratings, price) of the Dcc sound > traxx. Is there a brochure available for this power supply ? > > Pardon my ignorance I have been stuck in a plain ole AC and DC rut for > many years. Untill now I had no need for a sound, power pack. > > Roger -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1456	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: thanx all for info, gonna hurry up and slow down...

LARSPAINTR@... wrote: Could not test > loco since nowhere did I find in AF repair sites how to test loco directly > (simply one lead to each brush?). Simply attach one power lead to 1 brush, one power lead to one end of field coil. Other field wire runs to other brush. This puts armature in series with the brushes, which is why we refer to Flyer motors as series wound. If your motor runs hooked up like this then the motor is OK. Note that it should run pretty fast with no load, and should start freely from any position of the 3 pole armature with respect to the brushes. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1457	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: thanx all for info, gonna hurry up and slow down...

Alex Mendelsohn wrote: > With respect to using Dc to power your locos, keep in mind that reversing > the track polarity (with a DPDT switch) will indeed reverse the direction of > a universal motor as used in most American Flyer locos This is not correct. The series wound motor needs a rectifier installed between the armature and field per the wiring diagram on Paul Yorke's website at: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1458	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: PRS Reefers

Dear Bruce, John has extra parts painted in case of breakage. Just give John a call at 541-267-6664 and let him know which sprue you need. To prevent breakage when cutting parts off the the sprue, I have found that cutting the corners (or tee joints) off of the sprue first, this releaves the stress on the parts as I cut them off. This works esp. well with the ladders. Bruce Pilcher wrote: > > From: Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> > > Kit Builders: > Have any of you purchased and assembled one of the new Pacific Rail > Shops reefers? I've been building their kits for years and have always > found them to be of very good quality, although sometimes challenging. > i.e.: the directions are very vague. Anyhow, I finally bought a pair of > the CB&Q reefers from the MESA club recently. This is a beautiful kit > with very attractive graphics. However, I have found the parts to be > extremley brittle and "unforgiving". The grab irons, brake shaft, etc. > will snap at the slightest application of pressure. This is a problem > when, after installing the side grabs and drop grabs, you continue to > assemble and later notice parts already glued on are missing (snapped > off, not fell out). > I haven't experienced this with any of their previous box cars or ACF > hoppers and wondered if we had a "bad" patch of plastic, or what. The > roof walk supports require bending, as they are flat on the sprue. Be > VERY careful doing this procedure! The slighest bend and they'll snap. > Spent the afternoon piecing them back together, which is really too bad, > as it detracts from an otherwise attractive car. Just wondered about > the experiences of others with this kit. I have 1 more CB&Q reefer kit > to go, then a few NYC/MDT cars I recently ordered. We'll see.... > > Best wishes, > > Bruce -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1459	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Continental Flyer

My first S gauge train set, which I got at about age 7, was also made in Japan. It was made of litho'd tinplate and featured a cab diesel A unit in the B & O paint scheme and several cars, came with tinplate track, hook couplers, working headlight, and was powered by 2 C batteries. I actually managed to get a second set, reversed the batteries in it (thank you 4th grade science teacher) so the loco ran backwards, and contrived a nose coupler out of a paper clip. Thus I had an AA hookup. My mother obtained a bunch of Flyer track and I was off to the races. I still remember turning off the room lights to watch the train snake around the reasonably large loop of track. This success convinced my parents that I was ready for real electric trains, and the Flyer years began. This train was written about in Keith Willis' Collector Consist in Railroad Model Craftsman magazine a year or two ago. Keith said that this set was mostly sold in Canada. I saw one at a train show once. It was a nice toy. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1460	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Americn Model Builders Kits in S scale!!!

Dear Keith, I saw the American Model Builders guy at the West Springfield, MA show yesterday. He told me about the new "S" kits they are working on. Funny, they could come all the way from St. Louis, MO to a New England Show, but Banta Models of Vermont who now owns B&S was not able to attend. Don Thompson Keith Thompson wrote: > > From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...> > > Hi All, > > I was just looking through the Walthers online listing and found the > following American Model Builders S SCALE kits on adv. res. status: > > Manu Item, Description, Scale, Price, In Stock, Expected > 152-75 Dill's Market S TBA N Indefinite > 152-77 Sonny's Shack S TBA N Indefinite > 152-78 Interlocking tower S TBA N Indefinite > 152-79 Long Bell Lmbr Co skd shk S TBA N Indefinite > 152-80 Springfield Depot S TBA N Indefinite > 152-81 One story section house S TBA N Indefinite > 152-82 Miner's Cabin S TBA N Indefinite > 152-83 PE Style pass shelter 2/ S TBA N Indefinite > 152-86 Two story house S TBA N Indefinite > 152-87 Country Barn S TBA N Indefinite > > Let's see, I need one interlocking tower, three Springfield Depots, five > two-story.... -- Keith Thompson in Seattle -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1461	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Fire Engines

Dear Kelvin, I talked to the code 3 guys at the National Model and HObby Show in Chicago last fall. They told me they are planning older fire engines in the future. I asked about next year (1999) and they said maybe in 2000. kelvin white wrote: > > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> > > In message <36B1A4E1.6DEA34B7@...>, Paul Yorke <yorke@...> > writes > >From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> > > > >If you are thinking about adding a fire house to your layout... > >Target has reduced the price on the Code 3 line of 'super detailed' > >1/64th fire engines. > >see http://www.hawkesbury.uws.edu.au/~armstrok/code3pu2.htm for > >examples. > >They used to be $20-$30 range, now they are the $12-$20 range > > The Code 3 WWW site is excellant - certainly worth visiting and book > marking. However all of the fire engines are modern. > > Is there a range of older fire engines? I'm looking for someting > suitable for a early 1950s Wisconsin Northwoods layout, so a fire engine > of 1940s era would seem applicable? > > Any WWW sites I can visit? > Kelvin White > Oxford England -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1462	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: reverse units

I have to say that I don't like solid state (electronic) reverse units. Now, I am not an electronics expert, but I have messed around with a lot of trains. It takes about 19v. AC to run old Flyer on a large layout. When a short circuit occurs, such as a derailment, or for other reasons, brief power surges of at least 40v. and possibly as much as 70v. can happen. Most if not all of the boards out there today can't handle this, in my view. They get toasted. Some can't even handle more than 12 or 15 v. I damaged two different kinds (I name no names) using only a 100 watt Flyer transformer and running them around a small loop. A standard reverse unit coil will absorb the surges without damage because they are so brief, and is designed for the 15-19v.range, with margin for error. I have other objections as well. I can't service solid state circuits yet, although I expect to learn how in the near future. I can repair conventional units. Also, I doubt the electronic units will be as durable as the older type. I have worked on a lot of prewar Lionel pieces in which the 60+ year old reverse units worked perfectly. Will the electronic units have this kind of durability? I doubt it. There are also other problems which I won't go into here, that can be highly frustrating. Now, this is my personal preference. I'm sure that these boards are being improved. Lots of people seem to like them. But a lot of people don't, too. Perhaps if one is only running new equipment with lower voltage can motors round and round and not doing a lot of switching and terminal operations they are fine. But if you combine them with higher voltage older equipment powered by old transformers you are asking for trouble. Every modern engine that has been sent to me for servicing (about half a dozen by now) has had a burnt out reverse unit. I have talked to several other experienced train people who feel the same way I do. One thing that is really needed here is an add-on surge suppressor/voltage limiter to go between the transformer and the track. This would or should make it possible to run the newer units with an older transformer without damage by preventing surges and limiting top voltage . A selector switch could choose a high or low top voltage for older or newer equipment. It's hard to believe that no one (to my knowledge) has marketed one yet. I'm sorry if this makes anybody angry, and this message may contain errors, but this has been my experience and this is how I feel about these units. I hate 'em ! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1463	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: reverse units

I'm with Tom on this too, I've had similar experiences with electronic units. I just finished replacing one, and have even repaired one once, but getting the componants turned out to be more bother than it was worh. And my contact for these parts has left. All it seems to take is one derailment at the wrong place/time to instantly fry the units. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1464	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: PRS Reefers & despruing

Hi All, I just completed my first Pacific Rail Shops reefer kit using PBL's #802 Despruing Nippers and I must endorse them highly for these kits. They're the best darn nippers I've ever used and really get into the tight spaces. I only broke one part during despruing, the retainer line for the B end of the reefer. The finer tipped 804 nippers probably could've removed it without breaking it. Luckily I was able to glue it back together. I'm going to buy a set of 804s before I start the next car. Anyway, you haven't lived until you use a set of theses nippers to build the PRS kits. To find out more about the PBL nippers, go to: http://www.zapcom.net/~pbl/tools.htm -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1465	From: James Tanley	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: LTI Sothern Pacific

I recently donated an LTI/AF Southern Pacific Daylight set to a charity auction. The fellow who won it wanted to run it, but it apparently didn't run...I've been told that those engines had problems...Is this true, and if so, is there a standard fix? Thanks, JT

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1466	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: 314AW control

We sell a repro control for the 314AW whistle. Doesn't LOOK like the original, but it works!. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1467	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Fox Pro to Access

???? Anyone can do that with several commercial packages...... or with Visual Basic. FoxPro files can be converted to any microsoft database application with import, and is also convertable with Lotus to their WKS files.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1468	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Testing AF Locos

I have two favorite ways of testing AF steam locos. The first comes from Tom Barker (the first repair column author in S Gaugian, long before Tom Jarcho--who also has written about quite a few neat testing and repair techniques). It works with all of the standard-wired steam locos with the 4 prong jack panel. The female plus on the jack panels alternate to Armature-Field-Armature-Field across the four prongs (i.e., the two higher prongs go to the Field leads (or Armature) and the two slightly lower prongs go to the Armature Brushes (or Field). Roughly, this looks as follows: ------------------------------------+ O O | O A O A | F F | __________________| ,where O = a male prong on the jack panel plug, A = an armature prong above it, and F = a field prong above it. The field leads to the back of the jack panel (from the motor) generally have bigger insulation than the armature/brushes leads making them easy to identify without disassembly of the locomotive. If your steam loco is wired this way, simply place a jumper wire between the two inner prongs (i.e., connect one armature/brush lead to one field lead) and then place the power from the transformer to the outer two prongs. This will test whether the loco is in running condition at the moment, and will isolate the problem to the reverse unit or wiring in the tender. I am not sure where I learned about the second method (which I use most often and which can be used on almost any steam loco wired as above with a removable 4-prong male plug). What you do is get a DPDT (double pole, double throw) miniature switch from Radio Shack (or electronics store) with a center off position. From the back, the 6 connectors are wired as follows: 1 2 3 4 5 6 Use 4-color wire (available from all AF parts dealers) and place a 4-prong male plug at one end, wired as follows: ------------------------------------+ O O | O G O R | W B | __________________| where W = white wire; G =green wire; B = black wire; and R = red wire. Then, one lead from the transformer goes directly to the other end of the white wire. The other lead from the transformer goes to pole 3 of the switch. The other end of the black wire goes to pole 4. The other end of the red wire goes to pole 6, and the other end of the green wire goes to pole 5. Finally, place jumper wires between poles ! and 6 and between poles 2 and 5. Schematically, this would look like: 1 (J) 2 (J) 3 (T) 4 (B) 5 (G) 6 (R) T (W) When the plug is plugged into a jack panel, the loco runs in one direction when the switch is thrown one way and in the other direction when the switch is thrown the other way. In this way, you simply unplug the tender from the loco, insert your test plug, and test the loco. If it runs this way, but not with the tender connected, you either have a problem in the reverse unit or in the wiring from the tender. Otherwise, you have an armature, field, spring, or brush problem and may not have to bend the delicate tabs found on the older tinplate tenders. Hope this is understandable--and helpful. Joe (The Toy Train Doctor with an Ambulance) == Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ############## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1469	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 2/1/1999
Subject: Re: Roadbed

I just caught up on archive issues of S-Train while I was transistioning between ISPs. Great info on cork,homasote, vinyl ,etc. I had one additional thought, I have seen in the hobby shops HO roadbed now made of black foam rubber. This is compared to cork as greatly reducing sound. I wonder if this will be offered in O gauge? Our clubs have been using half-O and half HO to make a nice cork roadbed for S. Thanks for all the good comments for our future choices. Curt Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1470	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: reverse units

I only have one engine with an electronic unit and (knock on wood) so far so good, but I'd advise learning how to clean and repair the electro-mechanical type. Once you do a couple they're not so bad, and they work very responsively and reliably once properly prepared. Isoproponol on a swab up from the bottom of the unit seems to do a nice job cleaning the drum, and on many that's all they need. Some repro fingers are a little longer than they should be, but you can bend them to work. One thing I've found works pretty well, but isn't necessary, is to fill the tips of the fingers with a small bead of solder (before installation). Adds mass. Have fun, make'm run.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1471	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 125

Tom Jarcho wrote: > >My first S gauge train set, which I got at about age 7, was also made in >Japan. It was made of litho'd tinplate and featured a cab diesel A unit in >the B & O paint scheme and several cars, came with tinplate track, hook >couplers, working headlight, and was powered by 2 C batteries. I actually >managed to get a second set, reversed the batteries in it (thank you 4th >grade science teacher) so the loco ran backwards, and contrived a nose >coupler out of a paper clip. Thus I had an AA hookup. My mother obtained >a bunch of Flyer track and I was off to the races. I still remember >turning off the room lights to watch the train snake around the reasonably >large loop of track. This success convinced my parents that I was ready >for real electric trains, and the Flyer years began. This train was >written about in Keith Willis' Collector Consist in Railroad Model >Craftsman magazine a year or two ago. Keith said that this set was mostly >sold in Canada. I saw one at a train show once. It was a nice toy. I think I have this set also, though it runs on D, not C cells. Again, this was an E-bay purchase. I have seen it appear there a number of times, it goes for about $50-60. It is S-gauge and runs well on AF track. There seem to have been several different versions sold, with different cars and slightly different track. The freight version has no manufacturer's name. It may have been Sakai. There was a passenger version(which I don't have) with SP colors, apparently manufactured by Dakin. I am attaching photos (downloaded from e-bay) of the sets. Tom, can you send the exact reference for the article in RMC?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1472	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Metal train sets

Roy's photos are very interesting. I have one of the boxcars, always wondered where it came from. Gee, another passenger train---and Daylight to boot. hmmm.... Wonder how good these cars would look with flyer trucks under them, the boxcar I have is pretty good. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1473	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Reversing and spiking

Mea culpa. Chuck Smith is absolutely correct. You cannot reverse an AF engine without the bridge rectifier modification. When I posted my note, I was thinking of my Putt Trains can motors, and wasn't thinking of my AF engines. They--of course--require a bridge to reverse them on DC, as I explained in detail in my recent note on reversing a 741 handcar on DC trackage. My apology for causing headscratching or wasted time. With respect to Tom Jarcho's comments on solid-state reversing units and reliability, I guess there's nothing that can beat experience! My reversing unit on my Atlantic gets a good workout, and--knock on wooden ties--it's performing flawlessly. However, if others have had bad experiences, I find that interesting too. My question is: what manufacturer's reversal board failed? If anyone has a burned out solid-state reversal unit they'd like to send to me so I can look it over to see what the failure was, I'd be happy to try and do so. The surges Tom refers to are more properly voltage spikes. If I were designing a board to work in a spike-laden environment such as a train track, I'd be sure to include spike suppression diodes or networks. If you look at a spike on a 15 V AC line on an oscilloscope, I'd bet you would see it go very high--perhaps 100 volts or more, for an instant. That can easily destroy a microcircuit or transistor. I've looked closely at the QSI boards, and I really can't identify all the parts I see, nor do I have a schematic diagram--which would immediately let me evaluate what the board's designers have done to ensure reliability in the presence of spiking track voltage. Unfortunately, there's no schematic supplied with the QSI boards; perhaps QSI feels it's not the kind of thing most semi-technical railroad modelers would want or need--or perhaps the company doesn't want folks "reverse engineering" (no pun intended) its boards! Servicing such a board would be relatively straightforward IF--and only if-- you have the schematic diagram. Otherwise you're limited to testing transistor junctions and diode junctions with an ohmmeter, or perhaps checking the board's relay contacts, or looking for bad electrolytic capacitors. Without the shematic, you'd be hard pressed to try and figure out how the board's designer used a flip-flop or Schmitt trigger chip. However, from a reliability point of view, solid-state circuits are typically VERY reliable. After all, there are no moving parts to wear out. Everything's monolithic. I suppose in twenty years there might be a relay contact problem, but it's unlikely. The contact plating materials in the cheapest relays are probably superior to the contacts in the original AF reversal units. The suggestion of add-on surge suppression is interesting. For DC circuits, Zener diodes can perform the task. For AC circuits, back-to-back Zener diodes should do the trick. A Zener diode has a voltage rating below which it doesn't conduct. Above the threshold or breakdown voltage rating, it conducts--shunting a spike away from a sensitive circuit. There are also cheap devices called metal oxide varistor voltage suppressors that can be placed across an AC circuit. A MOV has a given threshold voltage, below which it will not conduct. It just sits there and does nothing, looking like a small ceramic disc capacitor. However, if a brief voltage spike comes along--and most last only a few thousandths of a second--the MOV conducts when the spike is present. It acts as a virtual short, conducting heavily and shunting the energy in the spike away from the circuit it's protecting. MOVs come in a variety of working voltage ratings; you also select the thresholds. However, most are for higher voltage systems than the 20 V maximum we might see on a track. The Mouser catalog shows some with 50 V operating ratings, but they're for clamping 100 V-plus spikes. They're useful for keeping spikes out of DCC units, or computer AC lines (117 vac) for example. I don't think a MOV would provide much protection on a track, but perhaps someone else has some experience with that. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Thanks for correcting me. Regards from snowy Maine, Alex in Kennebunk .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1474	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI Sothern Pacific

In a message dated 2/1/99 10:40:07 PM, tanley.1@... wrote: From Jim Tanley, <<I recently donated an LTI/AF Southern Pacific Daylight set to a charity auction. The fellow who won it wanted to run it, but it apparently didn't run...I've been told that those engines had problems...Is this true, and if so, is there a standard fix?>> I guess these are the surprises in store for one when a piece is left in 'mint' condition for ninteen years and then opened for operation. The LTI SP's have the modified form of the old Gilbert motors, which are the same as those also used in the PA's for the B&O freight set from the same period. The SP and B&O PA's were also equipped with the first solid state reversing units and DC converters. Although most might run the engine on AC, the motor itself is running on DC. The first thing I would try is sliding the E-unit switch back and forth a few times and then seeing if the engine operates. This switch has been sitting unused for 20 years. My B&O set runs beautifully, in fact better than the later sets equipped with can motors. But I do remember having the electonic e-unit failing early in the game after I bought the set (in 1993) and having the unit repaired under warrantee at a local Lionel service station. The solid state assembly (Electronic E-unit) has a part number: 40-0105-001. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1475	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Re: Reversing and spiking

Alex Mendelsohn wrote: > With respect to Tom Jarcho's comments on solid-state reversing units and > reliability, I guess there's nothing that can beat experience! My reversing > unit on my Atlantic gets a good workout, and--knock on wooden ties--it's > performing flawlessly. However, if others have had bad experiences, I find > that interesting too. I have a question on electronic reversing units. I have several running some AM locos with can motors and now an SW9 from SHS. I also have them in 3 Lionel AF locos, a NP PA & Chessie GP20 with can motors and a BO PA with the older series wound motor. They all seem very reliable after several tear's use. Are the problems people are describing occurring with a specific brand? Are the problems coming from using them with Series wound AF motors? I have always thought it would be nice to switch over some old Flyers to electronic 'cause I'm getting lazy in my old age but now I'm wondering. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1476	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI Sothern Pacific

My friend Mike has the Daylight set, and a few years ago his e-unit fried. A proffessional repairman fixed his loco, but it took some time, as he was told the early reverse unit is no longer available. I believe it reverses by selecting different field windings, instead of converting to DC--but I could be all wet! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1477	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: More on magnifiers

Regarding my recent e'mail to the list on magnifier experience, the one I have on my bench came from Damark, and in the catalog I just received they still have it listed. Basic info - clamps to desk - 42" extension arm - 3 diopter lens - 22W circular fluorescent tube - convenience outlet in base - 3 conductor cord - black(#B-40260-569929) or white(#B-40260-569943) $39.99 each - free S/H Damark's # is 800-328-3100 Michael PS No financial interest except as a satisfied customer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1478	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Re: PFEX reefers

We announced a couple of weeks ago the arrival of the West India Fruit & Steamship wood-sided reefers. We have just begun to receive the first run of PFEX UP/SP reefers as well............available in 3 different numbers, as with all of our previous cars...........and in scale or highrail versions. $36.95 each, or a set of three for $105. Add $4 shipping. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1479	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Soundtrax help

I wired up a soundtrax diesil board into an American Models FP-7. When I applied power, I heard a sound for about 1 second, then nothing. The engine ran fine in both direction. Not wanting to cause big damage I took it off the layout. Could this be F8, the mute feature? I also recommend the PBL Nippers, they are the best tool you can find for doing kits. A word of congratulations to SHS. The caboose railing colors on the NP caboose are correct. We haranged about it and they made it happen. Not so in the more popular scales. Ken Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1480	From: M. McConnell	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: Knuckle Coupler problems

>Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 08:52:12 EST > From: TerryMacE@... >Subject: AF Knuckle Coupler Problems > >Greetings, > >Are there any practical tips that anyone has for insuring that Knuckle couples >don't open when the train is run across an AF Switch. The couplers that are >causing the problems seem to be adjusted as high as the trucks will allow. > >I'd sure appreciate anyone's thoughts or suggestions. > >Terry Super Glue does a pretty good job of keeping them from opening anymore :)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1481	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: early LTI diesels

Yes that is correct Dave. Early LTI diesels have a double wound field just like the motors in the AF coal loaders and lots of other toy trains through the years. Lionel made quite a few cheap steam locos toward the end of production with solid state reverse units and double wound fields too. Perhaps a board from one of these could be used. Another repair option is to 1) either use only one field winding or wire the two field windings in series (I believe Bill Jackson once mentioned doing this when using these fields as replacements in Flyer locos but am not sure if it would work, especially here) and then 2) use a conversion reverse unit such as you would put in a Flyer loco. There are other options too but this message is long enough ! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1482	From: Richard Snook	Date: 2/2/1999
Subject: DCC direction/load

Hello all I have no real experience yet with DCC, so I might look a bit of a goose here. With respect to direction and load of a locomotive re sound. Would it be possible/practical/needed? to rig a locomotive with a mercury switch? purpose? if it was possible to work out whether a loco(or train) was going uphill or downhill with repect to direction travelled then it might be possible (?????) to command the loco to replicate desired sound effect of load..i.e if Diesel is travelling downhill it is likely to be under dynamics, if steam then its coasting to some degree, ( not working the ol steam chests) if uphill then an engine is working harder and should sound like it...is this pie in the sky, has someone already thought to try it...I better go now :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1483	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: More pages?

Two new pages for your viewing enjoyment Thanks to Bill Porter for 'DCC' http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/dcc.htm and thanks to Ross Roberts for 'Vehicles' http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/vehicles/vehicles.htm Always looking for good content. Thanks again Ross & Bill If I had a mag that went to 5000 people 9 times a year, that would equal 45,000 exposures per year. If I had a daily mailing list that went to 350 people every day, that is 127,750 exposure per year. I guess that makes us the #1 'S' publication in the world? -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1484	From: Bill Clark	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: Soundtrax help

At 10:27 PM 02/02/1999 -0600, you wrote: >From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...> > >I wired up a soundtrax diesil board into an American Models FP-7. When >I applied power, I heard a sound for about 1 second, then nothing. The >engine ran fine in both direction. Not wanting to cause big damage I >took it off the layout. Could this be F8, the mute feature? > It could indeed! F8 being on mutes the sound. Turn off F8 to turn sound on. What speaker setup did you use? I have an FP-7 waiting for a Soundtraxx myself. >A word of congratulations to SHS. The caboose railing colors on the NP >caboose are correct. We haranged about it and they made it happen. Not >so in the more popular scales. >Ken Z. > I think that S-Helper is just fantastic! Everything they do is done well, and is getting even better. I can't wait for the F-3s. I think they should do a Bangor and Aroostook F3 however! S gauge is a labor of love with them, and it shows in everything they do. Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1485	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: DCC direction/load for sound

Hi Richard, Bob Christopherson installed one of the SoundTraxx decoders in an SHS SW9 and we were both pleasantly surprised as the unit headed up the hill and "dug in" verbally. SoundTraxx denies that they have any load compensation but their decoders use back EMF to sense how hard the locomotive is working compared to the voltage the decoder is giving out and adjusts the sound accordingly. Therefore, all you have to do is install a SoundTraxx decoder to get the effect you're seeking. :-) Also, the SoundTraxx decoder has dynamic braking sound you can turn off and on at will. It's rather wicked listening to a non-dynamic equipped SW9 coming down a hill in full dynamics. I talked Bob into turning THAT feature off since it was a little too much for my fantasy. Now if SoundTraxx could figure how to put the smell of Cobra brake shoe dust in the air... -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Richard Snook wrote: > Would it be possible/practical/needed? to rig a locomotive with a > mercury switch? purpose? if it was possible to work out whether a > loco(or train) was going uphill or downhill with repect to direction > travelled then it might be possible (?????) to command the loco to > replicate desired sound effect of load..i.e if Diesel is travelling > downhill it is likely to be under dynamics, if steam then its coasting > to some degree, ( not working the ol steam chests) if uphill then an > engine is working harder and should sound like it...is this pie in the > sky, has someone already thought to try it...I better go now :-)) > Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1486	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: refacing comm's

I tried the electric drill and Dremel combo technique and got incredible, wheels-spinning-off-the-axles speed, but in reverse. Forward remained blah. So I tried reversing the drill (to counter-clockwise) and using a file against the commutators. No appreciable difference (reverse remained amazingly fast, just to drive me nuts). I still think there's a ledge or high spot getting in the way when in forward (the motor spinning counter-clockwise) that doesn't affect reverse because there are heavier than elsewhere deposits of graphite on the leading section of each commutator. My next step will be to try the power drill with the armature turning counter-clockwise, and my portable drill with the cut-off tool so I can have them spinning opposite each other (can't reverse the Dremel) and see what happens. If I can get 3/4th's the speed it now has in reverse, it'll be soooo much fun to run. For now, however, it remains a big tease.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1487	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: DCC direction/load for sound

I would like to add sound to my SW-9s. What decoder did you use? Is it in addition to the decoder that controls the loco's movement, or does one decoder controll sound and movement? How did you find room for the speaker - I had enough trouble squeezing in the tiny Lenz decoder I used. As you can tell, I have some experience with DCC, but none with sound. Thanks, Daniel >From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...> > >Hi Richard, > >Bob Christopherson installed one of the SoundTraxx decoders in an SHS >SW9 and we were both pleasantly surprised as the unit headed up the hill >and "dug in" verbally. SoundTraxx denies that they have any load >compensation but their decoders use back EMF to sense how hard the >locomotive is working compared to the voltage the decoder is giving out >and adjusts the sound accordingly. Therefore, all you have to do is >install a SoundTraxx decoder to get the effect you're seeking. :-) > >Also, the SoundTraxx decoder has dynamic braking sound you can turn off >and on at will. It's rather wicked listening to a non-dynamic equipped >SW9 coming down a hill in full dynamics. I talked Bob into turning THAT >feature off since it was a little too much for my fantasy. Now if >SoundTraxx could figure how to put the smell of Cobra brake shoe dust in >the air... -- Keith Thompson in Seattle >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1488	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: DCC direction/load for sound

Hi Daniel, The decoder is a Soundtraxx DSD-150 (http://www.soundtraxx.com/dcc/diesel.html) and it does control sound, throttle, and FX lights. For the speaker, Bob used the full-range Panasonic P9612-ND sold by Digi-Key (http://info.digikey.com/EC/V3/348.pdf). Bob made a plastic box enclosure for the back of the speaker and mounted it crosswise in the cab. He then left out some of the cab windows to let the sound out. I'm photographing my installation for publication in one of the S scale printed magazines. The only thing I'm doing different is changing the speaker location. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Daniel Neumayer wrote: > > I would like to add sound to my SW-9s. What decoder did you use? Is it in > addition to the decoder that controls the loco's movement, or does one > decoder controll sound and movement? How did you find room for the speaker > - I had enough trouble squeezing in the tiny Lenz decoder I used.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1489	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: continental flyer

okay, so you made me sort out part of my basement. some S history information involving Lionel and Continental: I will not repeat the stories. that should be done by S Gaugian in a new compilation of these news releases and stories. It is their material. ----------------------- may/june, 1976, "S Gaugian" cover: "Will these men be the first to bring S back?" in "S Briefs", Wayne Gross, Donald H. Shea & Harry Gordon are making plans for a new line of old American Flyer trains. "We're going to call them Continental Flyers," says Gross, a former engineer and designer for Gilbert, 1950-65. Their first set in S gauge is to be the Franklin in Bicnetennial colors and also the barell loader followed by an all plastic Atlantic. Shea was in the oil business and was manager of the Gilbert Canadian plant at one time. The men wanted to produce the trains in the old Gilbert building and had an option on three floors of the building. It was hoped the first run of trains would be out by September of 1976, but no promises were made. ---------------------- In early 1977 there was a ground breaking for the new Continential Flyer building on property owned by Mr. Shea. Don Heimburger was there as was Charlotte Gilbert Chase, daughter of ACG. --------------------- july/august, 1977 "S gaugian" cover: "Meeting Continental Flyer's marketing man" picture on cover of Spike Fitzpatrick, marketing manager, CF. in "S Briefs, Don Heimburger, editor and publisher of S Gaugian says, "by mid 1977 two major corporations will herald the rebirth of S Gauge, Continental Flyer and Lionel". "Continental Flyer broke ground this spring for a $300,000.00 plant in North Haven, Connecticut and Lionel, Fundemensions division of General Mills Fun Group, Inc." are the two companies. Lionel had purchased the Gilbert dies in 1967 and planned to use those. Continental was going to build similar S gauge trains to those that had been produced by Gilbert. At the bottom of the S-Briefs is a photo submitted by Peter Jugle of a box for the battery powered Continental Flyer Train set, It smokes! Piston noise! (contents are listed), uses 2 D cell Batteries, item 167, made in japan. "Spike the Train Man" story on page 13: ----------------------- after this issue up through 1980, I find no mention of Continental Flyer in "S Gaugian". --------------------- march/april, 1979 "S Gaugian" cover, "Welcome back, American Flyer!" the Lionel American Flyer Gulf tank car picture on the cover. "S Briefs", "...enter Fundimensions new line of American Flyer S gauge trains, enter Ertl's growing 1979 line of 1:64 scale trucks and tractors, enter Lif-Like's serious interest in appealing to S gaugers, enter Bachmann with their O-S line of snap-together plastic buildings." Lionel's releases were the 4-9200 Chessie hopper, 4-9100 Gulf tank and 4-9700 Sante Fe box. pages 12-15 have story by Donald Heimburger which includes pictures of plant making "O" stuff and an interview with Peter Sappenfield, marketing manager for the AF train line. --------------- charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1490	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Continental Flyer discussion

There were also some tinplate S-scale sets made by another Japanese firm, Modern Toy Company. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1491	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: OT - Holiday budget

Apologies for a totally Of Topic question. I'm working out my budget for my July trip to visit you and the NASG convention. The three week holiday will include two weeks railfanning around Northern Wisconsin. To give me a better idea of cost can somebody advise the mpg of a small hire car like a metro, and the cost of gas per gallon. Plus given that I'm a skinny sort of a chap (and vegetarian)! is $40.00 a day (average) too much or not enough for basic food costs (I'll be staying in motels). TIA -- Kelvin White Oxford England.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1492	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: DCC direction/load

Dear Richard, With the Soundtraxx DCC Diesel sound unit you can control the sound of the dynamic brakes with F4 on your throttle (at least on Digitrax you can). Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Richard Snook wrote: > > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > > Hello all > > I have no real experience yet with DCC, so I might look a bit of a goose > here. With respect to direction and load of a locomotive re sound. > > Would it be possible/practical/needed? to rig a locomotive with a > mercury switch? purpose? if it was possible to work out whether a > loco(or train) was going uphill or downhill with repect to direction > travelled then it might be possible (?????) to command the loco to > replicate desired sound effect of load..i.e if Diesel is travelling > downhill it is likely to be under dynamics, if steam then its coasting > to some degree, ( not working the ol steam chests) if uphill then an > engine is working harder and should sound like it...is this pie in the > sky, has someone already thought to try it...I better go now :-)) > Richard -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1493	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: DCC direction/load for sound

Dear Keith, That sounds like an awful lot of work to install that Soundtraxx decoder in your SW-9. I have seen two installed in our SW-9s and both used the 1 1/2" coaxial oval speaker with a 3/4" speaker inset. I installed the speaker in below the top radiator grill that I drilled out with a 0.030" drill. I used a round pill bottle to form the baffle. I also installed the Digitrax nine in line/NMRA 8 pin connector to the Soundtrax throttle, this just plugs in. I used the soundtraxx 2 pin micro-connector for the speaker. The items are abit costly (the entire job doubled the cost of the SW-9), but by pluging it in, I can remove it a use the sound unit on another engine. I removed the AC board and used velcro on the sound unit to hold it to the top of the motor. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Keith Thompson wrote: > > From: Keith Thompson <kthompso@...> > > Hi Daniel, > > The decoder is a Soundtraxx DSD-150 > (http://www.soundtraxx.com/dcc/diesel.html) and it does control sound, > throttle, and FX lights. For the speaker, Bob used the full-range > Panasonic P9612-ND sold by Digi-Key > (http://info.digikey.com/EC/V3/348.pdf). Bob made a plastic box > enclosure for the back of the speaker and mounted it crosswise in the > cab. He then left out some of the cab windows to let the sound out. I'm > photographing my installation for publication in one of the S scale > printed magazines. The only thing I'm doing different is changing the > speaker location. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle > > Daniel Neumayer wrote: > > > > I would like to add sound to my SW-9s. What decoder did you use? Is it in > > addition to the decoder that controls the loco's movement, or does one > > decoder controll sound and movement? How did you find room for the speaker > > - I had enough trouble squeezing in the tiny Lenz decoder I used.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1494	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: what's it worth?

I'm trying to determine a fair price for a 914 in E condition with out the load (logs) or the trip. What do you think top dollar would be?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1495	From: Scott Holm	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: Smoke units help

>Maybe someone can help out with the smoke unit. It puffs smoke great for >about a minute or so and then stops. If I let the engine set for a while it >will again smoke for a few minutes and stop again. It just won't continue >to smoke. Anybody know what causes this? I have the same problem with two engines.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1496	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: Re: Smoke units help

This is usually caused by a burnt wick, although sometimes it can merely be 'plugged' with hardened fluid. Old time repair for that is spray some WD-40 down the stack while holding nose of engine up, so the stuff will flow down to the wick area. Let it sit a bit, then pour the power on. Sometimes needs to be repeated. Burnt wick is only fixed by replacement, if you're really patient and CHEAP! one can sometimes loosen the nichrome coil and move the wick so some fresh wick is under the coil. New units are around $3, so don't know if this trick is worth doing! (note that I didn't describe the disassembly and repair proceedure, think that's been done on one of the FAQ files.) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1497	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 2/3/1999
Subject: DCC direction/load

in DCC, I believe some decoders use a back-EMF for sensing the load required to keep motor running at selected speed. I would think this could be associated with sounds to make a realistic loading of engine uphill or coasting downhill. Just a guess based on one clinic at NASG convention last summer. May friendship and Knowledge Be Yours Curt Johnson -NVAFC- Pennsylvania

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1498	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Re: Smoke units help

Smoke units that start out heavy then peter out by one or two rounds around the loop have to have the wicks replaced. The original AF smoke fluid had a turpentine like base in the formula. Over the years this tends to get hard, and this stops the wicking action of the angelhair.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1499	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: smoke units

There are at least four varietieties of smoke units. The ones made about 1957 with one chamber have a coil which is rigidly mounted (?) to the board by stiff wire. The wick is wrapped around the coil and it is a simple matter to rewrap an unburned part of the wick around the coil. In all other types the coil is wrapped around the wick and it is usually easier to replace the coil and wick. The best replacement kits I have seen are made by Ray Mohrlang, Pueblo CO, 719 544-8936. My article in the May 1994 Classic Toy Trains has photos of the replacement process. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1500	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: wicks

Sounds like your wick in the lower chamber has solidified with old smoke fluid. That way, once the fluid up top is burned off, you don't get much more smok'n. You can try removing the coil and wick, unravel it (if it will let you), soak it in a baby food jar of track cleaner or other such non-flammable degreaser, rinse it, dry it, then re-install it. That's worked for me, but on other ocassions (and for the ulitmate best results) you just gotta replace the wick and coil.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1501	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: the towel

I tried reverse refacing another armature's commutators (electric drill c-cw, and cut-off wheel counter rotating). Really did see the "trench" and "ledge" disappear as the refacing operation progressed until all was even again. Polished with 320/400/600/1000/1500/2000 grit 'til it looked like the reflector in a telescope. Ran great in both directions for about 5 minutes, then speed in fwd fell off. huh. Brush tubes were cleaned, tried different washers, etc. As usual no difference, and a burst in reverse alway makes fwd run faster - - briefly. Still feel it has to do with brush-to-commutator contact, but don't know what exactly is the issue. On the other hand, perhaps it is electrical (windings, magnetization). Just don't want to face this with each steamer over time.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1502	From: michael prell	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Re: the towel

Just a thought from someone who doesn't know much, but could it be that the material in the brushes is softer than the stuff in the original, or that with time, the bonding agent holding the stuff together gets weak? Possibly? ---David_Horn@... wrote: > > From: David_Horn@... > > > > I tried reverse refacing another armature's commutators (electric drill > c-cw, and cut-off wheel counter rotating). Really did see the "trench" and > "ledge" disappear as the refacing operation progressed until all was even > again. Polished with 320/400/600/1000/1500/2000 grit 'til it looked like > the reflector in a telescope. Ran great in both directions for about 5 > minutes, then speed in fwd fell off. huh. Brush tubes were cleaned, tried > different washers, etc. As usual no difference, and a burst in reverse > alway makes fwd run faster - - briefly. Still feel it has to do with > brush-to-commutator contact, but don't know what exactly is the issue. On > the other hand, perhaps it is electrical (windings, magnetization). Just > don't want to face this with each steamer over time. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1503	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Re: the towel

In a message dated 2/4/99 8:34:46 AM, David_Horn@... wrote: Dave's question: << Polished with 320/400/600/1000/1500/2000 grit 'til it looked like the reflector in a telescope. Ran great in both directions for about 5 minutes, then speed in fwd fell off. huh.>> Given all that you have tried, another possiblity is that the armature requires rewinding. The copper wire for the windings back in the 50's and earlier were insultated with a coating of lacquer. This becomes porous with time and can lead to winding shorts which will decrease power. It may be that as your motor warms up with use during the first 5 minutes some of the windings come closer contact such that this shorting can occur (i.e., the shorting is intermittant with temperature). Rewinding with copper wire coated with FORMEX (the standard wire coating used in place of lacquer these days) will fix this problem for good in that FORMEX is much tougher than lacquer. Hoping that this might help. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1504	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Re: the towel

David H, Are you sure the commutator isn't rubbing against the brush tubes in forward? Or that it has at some point in the past and put a small 'lip' on the inside of the brush tube (which could make the brushes 'hang' in the tube momentarily)? Just two more thoughts on this. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1505	From: Kimball, Bob (PB)	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: American Models Wheelsets

I have scale American Models wheels that I would like to trade for high rail wheels. I have 40 36" passenger insulated wheels, 2 33" insulated passenger wheels and 8 33" freight wheels. Anybody interested? Bob Kimball

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1506	From: Dave Heine	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Re: DCC direction/load

From: Curtis Johnson <seedybear@...> in DCC, I believe some decoders use a back-EMF for sensing the load required to keep motor running at selected speed. I would think this could be associated with sounds to make a realistic loading of engine uphill or coasting downhill. Just a guess based on one clinic at NASG convention last summer. May friendship and Knowledge Be Yours Curt Johnson -NVAFC- Pennsylvania __________________________________________________ I remember seeing something that the Soundtraxx sound decoder does look at the motor back-EMF. Lenz and Zimo make decoders that use back-EMF for speed control. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1507	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Browser Based Track planning

If you have Netscape Browser v4.0 or better, and (its free) would like to see something different....web based track planning. It is not perfect, but just something I am working on. (I think it's cool) http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/track/dropndrag.htm and http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/track/dropndrag.htm I am only accepting positive comments at this time. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1508	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: oops

Netscape v4.0 or better test page http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/panels/dropndrag.htm -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1509	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Re: the towel

In a message dated 2/4/99 3:52:04 PM !!!First Boot!!!, RBubeck327@... writes: << Given all that you have tried, another possiblity is that the armature requires rewinding. The copper wire for the windings back in the 50's and earlier were insultated with a coating of lacquer. This becomes porous with time and can lead to winding shorts which will decrease power. It may be that as your motor warms up with use during the first 5 minutes some of the windings come closer contact such that this shorting can occur (i.e., the shorting is intermittant with temperature). Rewinding with copper wire coated with FORMEX (the standard wire coating used in place of lacquer these days) will fix this problem for good in that FORMEX is much tougher than lacquer. >> If this were true would the loco not run good in either direction??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1510	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: is there a Doctor in the house

Thanks to all for your tips and ideas on the strange "faster in reverse than forward", no matter what, problem. On the points raised most recently, here's the findings. 1) brush tubes - - not making contact, no lip, all smooth, secure, and clean. 2) reverse unit - - clean drum, good finger contact (no arcing), although a couple are worn not badly, wouldn't an issue with a finger present itself as a problem in forward and reverse, the all provide contact in each position. 3) brush material - - I wondered about this earlier, when I noticed what appear to be original brushes out of my 312 SIT look much more copper in color than recently purchased new ones, but then why does this one with new brushed run so well in reverse? 4) try a different brush plate - - did, no difference. 5) try a different armature - - did, and it went like a bat out of you know where in both directions (probably what's most confounding about this) I did manage to eek out a little more speed in forward by placing .005" washers on the lower two mounting points of the brush plate, but reverse is still clearly better. A short run in reverse also still helps forward speed - - for a brief period. PS Should a reverse unit get warm? I noticed this one does.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1511	From: Roger Petrella	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 129

> In a message dated 2/4/99 3:52:04 PM !!!First Boot!!!, RBubeck327@... > writes: > > << Given all that you have tried, another possiblity is that the armature > requires rewinding. The copper wire for the windings back in the 50's and > earlier were insultated with a coating of lacquer. This becomes porous with > time and can lead to winding shorts which will decrease power. It may be > that > as your motor warms up with use during the first 5 minutes some of the > windings come closer contact such that this shorting can occur (i.e., the > shorting is intermittant with temperature). Rewinding with copper wire > coated > with FORMEX (the standard wire coating used in place of lacquer these days) > will fix this problem for good in that FORMEX is much tougher than lacquer. > >> Okay, now I have a really good question concerning this issue. How exactly does one go about rewinding the armature correctly? What size wire and how do you know it is coated with Formex? I have a couple that are burnt and need to be redone. Also have one coil from an operating car that is bad. Can someone write up procedureds for this process? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1512	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Re: is there a Doctor in the house

In a message dated 2/5/99 8:33:09 AM, David_Horn@... wrote: Dave said, <<5) try a different armature - - did, and it went like a bat out of you know where in both directions (probably what's most confounding about this) >> This suggests, again, to rewinding the armature that you normally have in your engine. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1513	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Re: the towel

In a message dated 2/4/99 8:58:57 PM, Trains16@... wrote: <<<< Given all that you have tried, another possiblity is that the armature requires rewinding. The copper wire for the windings back in the 50's and earlier were insultated with a coating of lacquer. This becomes porous with time and can lead to winding shorts which will decrease power. It may be that as your motor warms up with use during the first 5 minutes some of the windings come closer contact such that this shorting can occur (i.e., the shorting is intermittant with temperature). Rewinding with copper wire coated with FORMEX (the standard wire coating used in place of lacquer these days) will fix this problem for good in that FORMEX is much tougher than lacquer. >> If this were true would the loco not run good in either direction?? >> Good question, and good point. This is part of the problem of diagnosis by long distance. The thinking here (by Your Humble Servant) is that most Flyer engines due by their design back up more easily than go forward because of the favorable pressure on the (unshunted) brushes and on the bearings. If the engine begins to slow down in about 5 minutes of running, the difficulty would show up first going forward rather than reverse. One way of testing my theory would be to load down the engine with a string of rolling stock of significant length and see whether or not the engine is being forced to labor more during reverse at that time as well. By the way, this does not exempt the field from the problem, but the armature is usually the principal source of winding failure. Further thoughts? RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1514	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 129

In a message dated 2/5/99 10:40:00 AM, rogerpjr@... wrote: <<Okay, now I have a really good question concerning this issue. How exactly does one go about rewinding the armature correctly? What size wire and how do you know it is coated with Formex? I have a couple that are burnt and need to be redone. Also have one coil from an operating car that is bad. Can someone write up procedureds for this process?>> The procedure is laid out in Thomas Barker's "American Flyer S Gauge Repair and Operating Manual" published by Greenberg. All clear coated Cu wire is coated with FORMEX so obtaining the right thing from Radio Shack should not be a problem. Just be sure to not to pick up and buy bare Cu wire. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1515	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Re: Armature headaches, was: Re: Digest Number 129

OK, I'll put in my 2� (that should be a 'cents' sign, it is on my screen). It's a good idea to test run the loco in reverse a while to see if the slowdown shows up after time, although I'd think if it's already going slow, that it's already warmed up to short condition. The worm gear gets worn in forward running, as does the axle gear, maybe they're worn badly? The reverse unit is getting warm? Maybe the coil in it is somehow wired in series with the field in forward position?? (but you say with a substitute armature, it goes like a bat out of h....? hmm) Armature wire insulation. OK, there are many variations on this stuff. I discovered this by accident when a friend gave me some he had left over from a project he did for an aerospace company. I was used to insulation that just melted off the wire with a lit match. This stuff required hard scraping to get it off, soldering iron wouldn't easily go through it either! It's been at least a year since I played with this stuff, think what I had was good for field winding. Anyway, I did some more research, and bought a large reel of wire that has what is known as 'unsolderable' insulation. It is good to 180 deg. C. You have to scrape it off to solder it. I got this to do diesel armatures, as I have quite a few that 'smell funny'--a sure sign of a problem, now or impending! All my wire is in storage, but I'll try to dig it out this weekend and let you know what I have. Maybe I can figure out some 'rewinder's sets' of xx feet of wire--I suspect I have more than I will ever use, especially the aerospace stuff, the coil weighs about 15 pounds! (Could be the reel, its cast metal of some sort). The reel I bought is smaller, but I still had to buy $50 worth to meet the minimum order! Since I got it, I haven't used it yet, too much 'reel world' stuff happening (Yes, the pun was intended, sorry!). (Come to think of it, that's a pun more fitting Chris Z's world, but I digress). Rewinding. Not hard, but does take patience, and time, and a magnifier, or really good eyes!. Hardest thing I've found is to keep from kinking the loose wire while winding! I measure the length of the old wire, and rewind a similar length back on. Some count the windings, I suspect either method will achieve a good armature. AF armatures have three windings, all there are connected together at one end. You have to wind the coils in the same direction, and the 'loose' end goes to a commutator segment to one side of the winding. (i.e.: the segment is offset from the coil). I suspect the commutators were originally wound on the core, and then the commutator pressed on the shaft, but one can work around them in place. I consider myself an amateur in this, and I know there's lots more to know about the subject, but I've had good success with the ones I've done. OH, one more item, I measure the ohm readings after winding, 1.3 ohms between segments seems to be standard. I have had to rewind one coil once, must have nicked the wire. And after winding, measuring and testing in the loco, I use some clear epoxy to coat the the outside, to keep the windings from shifting or 'birdnesting' (That's when the winding comes apart and makes a bird's nest in the motor--I've had it happen to an L can motor once!). Well, so much for a short post ---oops that pun was unintended, honest! I think I'm still going to vote for a worn worm gear on the armature. (anyone know how we can tell this visually?) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1516	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/4/1999
Subject: Holiday costs - thanks

My thanks to all of you that replied about food, gas, motel costs.....looks like I'll have some more money to spend. FYI petrol over here is about $4.00 a gallon! -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1517	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: armature

This misterioso armature needs rewinding. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1518	From: William Porter	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Rewinding

Hi Ya'll, More long distance diagnosis. If the hypothetical short occurs more often when the motor is turning in one direction than in the other, the cause may be the difference in the centripetal force combined with the resistive forces of the drive train. If there is some sort of 'pinhole' in the insulation that is affected by the heat, the mechanical motion may also contribute to the intermittant nature of the beast. If so, all roads still lead to rewind city. Back in the bad old days, I used to rewind slot car motors. Since the goal was speed, we tried to suck up as much electricity as possible. That produced plenty of heat during races. To keep things together under this stress and to provide better heat transfer, we soaked the windings in epoxy. Heat the armature a bit and apply warm epoxy. A side benefit was that the windings did not move against each other and cause abrasions. We probbly don't need to do that with our stodgy old train motors, but it illustrates the point that intermittant connections can result from a variety of causes. Great ZOT itS, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1519	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: Winross Internet Specials

Hi All, Winross has some special pricing on a few of its trucks to show off its internet ordering capabilities. To see the specials, go to: http://www.winross.com/wbm.html -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1520	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 2/5/1999
Subject: (no subject)

The subject is, I think, the lack of reverse in the engine. "I tried the electric drill and Dremel combo technique and got incredible, wheels-spinning-off-the-axles speed, but in reverse. Forward remained blah. So I tried reversing the drill (to counter-clockwise) and using a file against the commutators. No appreciable difference (reverse remained amazingly fast, just to drive me nuts). I still think there's a ledge or high spot getting in the way when in forward (the motor spinning counter-clockwise) that doesn't affect reverse because there are heavier than elsewhere deposits of graphite on the leading section of each commutator. My next step will be to try the power drill with the armature turning counter-clockwise, and my portable drill with the cut-off tool so I can have them spinning opposite each other (can't reverse the Dremel) and see what happens. If I can get 3/4th's the speed it now has in reverse, it'll be soooo much fun to run. For now, however, it remains a big tease." Is it possible that the thrust washers are all on one end, or missing entirely? ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1521	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 2/6/1999
Subject: more towel

Dave and other armature fixers, Does your armature have the oil-slinger type piece on the commutator end? If not I make my own out of thrust washers. They are too large in diameter, so I super glue (Zap-a-Gap) two 0.020" washers together. I then put them onto the Dremel screw type arbor that normally holds cutoff disks -- center them by eye as the hole is larger than the screw threads. Fire up the Dremel and use a file to reduce the diameter, even taper it slightly if you like. Use the Zap-a-Gap again to attach the thrust washers to the commutator end of the armature shaft! I keep 0.005", 0.010", and 0.020" thrust washers in my parts box and try to limit armature end-to-end travel to somewhere between 0.010-0.020". This keeps the brush tubes from actually touching the commutator. I seems that the way the worm and gear are cut that, when operating forward, the armature wants to drive into the brush plate. Any friction or binding in the drivers, linkages, choo-choo, etc. just accentuates this and the armature wants to 'bounce'. Anyhow, you can't win 'em all. Take care, Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1522	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/6/1999
Subject: Re: rewinds

In a message dated 2/6/99 4:51:57 AM, you wrote: <<How exactly does one go about rewinding the armature correctly? What size wire and how do you know it is coated with Formex? I have a couple that are burnt and need to be redone. Also have one coil from an operating car that is bad. Can someone write up procedureds for this process?>> Tom Barker's AF Repair Manual includes instructions for rewinding fields and armatures, and what wire size to use. For those who don't want to tackle it, we do quality rewinds using top-quality wire. $35 per armature, and $20 per field. Doug We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 50-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 20+ page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. Each catalog is $2, or a set of all three catalogs is $5, postpaid. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax) Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1523	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/6/1999
Subject: Digging into the Archives??

Have been going through files of vendors past and present to straighten up the system, and am finding some that I am going to toss the names out to see if they are around anymore, or of they should just go into the inactive file. There are a few mfrs. that are long gone, others, I am not sure of. For example: What is current status of: Omnicon Models Ye Old Huff-n-Puff for starters. More as I get a chance to sort out the mess.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1524	From: Gerbasi	Date: 2/6/1999
Subject: Fw: vehicles

-----Original Message----- From: Gerbasi <kgerbasi@...> To: mhrreast@... <mhrreast@...> Date: Saturday, February 06, 1999 5:49 PM Subject: Re: vehicles >When you hit the discount stores, there are a few bargains out there in the >die-cast market. > >Johnny Lightning "Frightening Lightnings", and "Hot Rod" series are being >closed out at many "Toys R Us" and "Wal-Marts"and are available for $1.00 to >$1.50. In these series are a 1959 T-Bird, a 1958 Plymouth, a 1950ish Rambler >wagon and a 1950ish Buick Roadmaster. Some repainting will be needed and >added chrome trim, but they are usable. > >The Matchbox '57 T-Bird convertible is usable, especially in its' "Premiere >Edition" paint job, and for "background models" the Hot Wheels 1959 Chev >(after you strip off the garish design on the side, and paint in the chrome >trim) is usable if you hide the huge front wheel well, and the "Street >Beast" which looks like a cross between a Tucker and a '58 Buick is okay in >the background. > >A new series of Racing Champions "Street Wheels" is out there at Target, >with individual cars (in my store they're not with the die cast, but in a >separate "Fun For Under Five Dollars" section) for $.49. Some of the cars >are usable if you cut off the hood scoops and or repaint or change wheels. > >Tom Gerbasi >-

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1525	From: Gerbasi	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Figures

When visiting your local discount store, don't overlook the closeout sectons. There are lots of usable figures for your layout in near S proportions. I came across some "mini-Action Figure" sets with usable people including "Batman and Robin" which are fun to hide in your city scenes. There are some "lockets" for "girls" that have one or two figures in "plasticville S" size (these aren't bargins when at their usual $5.00 price, but on close out, $.50 per figure is a great price for a fully painted figure). Don't overlook the Hot Wheels Action Pack with a John Glenn figure in a suit that doesn't look like John Glenn but does look like a short stocky bald old guy, Two Astronauts in spacesuits and a Mercury Capsule about the right size for a flatcar load (and a really undersized Space Shuttle) that are usable. There are lots of Ertl farm equiptment items on super discount, that make great flatcar loads. Be sure to take along someone who knows farming, so some nit picker who visits your layout won't be able to point out that the item is "too modern" for your layout. Happy Hunting Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1526	From: Donald P. Abrams	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: AF Diesel Trucks

Hi all, What's the consensus on tightening up loose diesel truck side frames? You know -- the ones that are still attached, but so wobbly they touch the rail and spark? I've never come up with a sure fire fix for this and I'd sure appreciate your input. Thanks, Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1527	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF Diesel Trucks

Donald P. Abrams wrote: > > What's the consensus on tightening up loose diesel truck side frames? > You know -- the ones that are still attached, but so wobbly they touch > the rail and spark? I would opt to epoxy the cast part to the sheet metal part, being careful to let it set with the frame held up while the epoxy cures. You might try tightening the rivets but risk destroying the old metal. Then you'd be asking where to get replacement side frames. Seriously, I find epoxy to be invaluable in keeping my 60 year old trains running and looking good. I like a loctite brand called something like metal repair because it is dark gray and is not as noticeable if you see a bit of it. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1528	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF Diesel Trucks

Don, Well, I have managed to retighten them with a chisel point punch (the same one I use to tighten KC weights) but I'm getting leery of that method. I have given some consideration to epoxy, like JB Weld. I'm thinking, use a rubber band to hold the sides tight to the frame, then build up some epoxy on the swedged stud. If you ever want to remove the side frame, it should still be possible, but difficult. If anyone tries this, let the rest of us know how it works! BTW, It is my suspicion that wear on the axle bearings, or bad alignment fixtures for rebushing result in trucks that ride just a little bit lower, and give problems on track that isn't level. I think this because I have one PA-PA set that is like new mechanically, and it negotiates my tree layout just fine; but the one I have that is worn likes to momentarily short circuit on my crossover switches (which aren't level with each other, grade change in the middle of them--this, BTW, is a hint to layout planners--keep crossovers, etc. in the same plane! My layout is 'scrunched' into too small a space to allow that luxury). Its only a momentary one, if I 'gun it' and have speed going through, it usually makes it. Too slow, and BZZZPT! we're in neutral! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1529	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Some observations

Just got back from a train show in Roseville. Very small public attendance! I bought some more track (WHAT!!! isn't a real 1/4 mile of it enough???) and a used AM boxcar (WP, couldn't resist). I also picked up a Northern reverse unit (the one held down with three screws) if someone needs one, I just need a regular tender one. Now that I have an AM coupler to look at in my leisure (Time, not Suit) I think I can see the first big problem. The lift lever is too small, it's only half the width of the AF one. This allows it to drop down in the switch frog and get hung & break. I know, it's not supposed to be that low, but the wheel face is so narrow on these trucks that I think the wheel drops in between the rail a bit and voila, low lever--snag, snap! I think I will put an AF floor on this car so I can run it without new problems to figure out! Also too many tiny details on this car that have already been broken off! (That should get some of you going--TOO MANY???--there's never enough!! <BG>) There's one guy who has a wonderful modular S layout at most of these northern California shows. He keeps improving it, I watched it for a few hours, drooling. In the afternoon he started running the L Santa Fe set (he added a B unit to the loco lash-up). First time I've seen them up close. Ran beautifully, nice crisp paint job too. He told me he has had very few problems with it. He also had a Ballstone (SP?) Camelback loco, looked really neat. He had a few other 'kitbashed' locos--one was an Atlantic with a Marx tender shell, looked really nice. These shells are often found in junk boxes too!! I bought a number of last years CTT issues as I haven't subscribed in a while. I noticed an amazing lack of S articles, which confirms my decision to cancel. I haven't read through them yet, but it seems to be " L Lovers'" mag. I did pick up the new L catalogs, and saw the photo for the Oil Drum loader, sold as an L accessory, but the photo used AF track & cars! It also mentioned illumination, but I didn't see a light pole, are they putting a light in the building? The consensus of the Flyer guys there was that we would probably not see any new AF from L anymore, except maybe the convention cars. The TTOS car this year should be very nice (According to the guy who approved the design), and if he gets to do what he wants for next year, it'll be dynamite--better save up!(That's all I can say, sorry!) S'incerely, David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1530	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Re: Figures

Tom, You forgot the "Alien Invasion" figures and vehicles!! I spotted these a few years ago and since have debated about their possible inclusion in some 'area 51' on a layout! How do I use the space shuttle in a '50s vintage layout, Sci Fi convention in town??? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1531	From: Chasbo86@aol.com	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: oil drum loader

david d:

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1532	From: Chasbo86@aol.com	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: oil drum loader

David D: I have one of the original oil drum loaders which works fine with my Amer Flyer layout and there never was any illumination in the building.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1533	From: Dennis Back	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Re: Lighted Oil Drum Loader

The new "L" oil drum loaders have a pole light which is about 6" high located on corner of the loading platform...out of the way so that the cart won't hit it. The original "L" loaders (circa 1985)....like the Gilbert ones that they copied from...had no light. RegardS, Dennis Back Miami, Fl.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1534	From: Jarcho	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: vehicles

Gentlemen: Campbell's soup has a special vehicle offer in connection with their 100th anniversary. Some cans of condensed soup have a special offer involving money and labels. They have 4 vehicles: a delivery van, Volkswagen bus, and two old timey trucks, made by Lledo, "approx. 1/64 scale". I found my offer on a can of creamy chicken noodle. Hope the trucks are better than the soup. Suggest you buy another flavor if possible. This should be a must for PRR fans, as PRR and Campbell's had an interlocking directorate. Tom J

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1535	From: Jarcho	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: diesel sideframes

On the sideframes with pickup shoes, I solder loose frames. First I use a wire brush to remove grease and paint from casting and blackening from frame. Solder needs bare metal to stick to. On frames without shoes I use Zap-a -gap. Works great I avoid epoxy whenever possible. As it hardens it loses adhesion and doesn't last more than a few years. Doesn't stand up to vibration well either. When it has to be used I cover it with paint to delay the inevitable decay. GP-7 sideframes are so fragile that trying to peen down (hammer) the protrusions (?) that go through the holes in the frame is very risky. Tom J

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1536	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: More webpages

I added and updated some of my webpages see the 'New' stuff at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/links/features.htm All Aboard page, Signal Bridge update, paper building picture, Puzz3d building, Unofficial Crown Page and more. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1537	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF Diesel Trucks

David Dewey wrote: > > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Don, > Well, I have managed to retighten them with a chisel point punch (the > same one I use to tighten KC weights) but I'm getting leery of that method. > I have given some consideration to epoxy, like JB Weld. I'm thinking, use a > rubber band to hold the sides tight to the frame, then build up some epoxy > on the swedged stud. If you ever want to remove the side frame, it should > still be possible, but difficult. If anyone tries this, let the rest of us > know how it works I have an old 310 where the plate that holds the tender drawbar came loose today. In this old style mounting it was originally riveted to the rear of the cab by peening over the die cast metal. I thought of drilling out the bosses but the wall thickness would be marginal. Instead I used epoxy to repair it. I put epoxy on the bosses, replaced the plate, put more epoxy over the "rivet" ends on the plate. I made sure I spread a little onto the inside cab walls at the plate to wall junction for extra strength. It's holding OK after a test run of quite a few minutes to entertain my grandson. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1538	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Sibyl

I suspect it's an intermittent short in the winding. Time for a rewind because I replaced the lower rev unit fingers, resoldered the truck connections, squared off the brushes gently with 400 grit, centered the drive gear, cleaned and lightly greased the worm gear, removed the .005" washers from the brush housing (was afraid it would stress crack it) and got perfect performance for two days - - forward was <7 seconds per lap with reverse <8. Bulls eye! That lasted for Sat and Sun with 5-15 minute runs each day. Then I put the shells back on (boiler and tender), and it continued to run great. So I wrote down what I did in my tech log. Ran it for 10 more minutes, and whamm! Forward speed suddenly fell way off, and reverse started going like crazy again. It regressed right back to it's original state of misbehavior literally before my eyes without having changed a thing! Thanks to all for your tips. I tried every one, and it seemed they made a difference, but now I suspect that somehow they've been coincidental to something temperamental in the windings. Live and learn.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1539	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Re: Figures

RE: Alien Invasion action figures and vehicles. Check out the Miami Valley S- Gaugers S-Spree car. It is a AM flat with a crate labeled, from area 51 to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base Hanger 18. Ceck out the S-Gaugian Mag. for more info. or e-mail me at cbtrainnut@ aol.com . It's a great looking car. Chris Burger, Miami Valley S-Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1540	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Armature Winding Shorts

Dave Horn had been asking about the commutator in a steamer: << Polished with 320/400/600/1000/1500/2000 grit 'til it looked like the reflector in a telescope. Ran great in both directions for about 5 minutes, then speed in fwd fell off. huh.>> RBubeck327 responded: <<Given all that you have tried, another possiblity is that the armature requires rewinding. The copper wire for the windings back in the 50's and earlier were insultated with a coating of lacquer. This becomes porous with time and can lead to winding shorts which will decrease power. It may be that as your motor warms up with use during the first 5 minutes some of the windings come closer contact such that this shorting can occur (i.e., the shorting is intermittant with temperature). >> That response sat in my mind for a day or so, then it slowly began to dawn on me that RB may have hit on the problem with my 466 Comet PA. This little baby, like most Alcos, runs like a politician away from the Independent Counsel--for almost exactly five minutes. Then the powered truck begins to heat up (almost can't touch it), and its performance decreases rapidly to where it begins to jerk spasmodically down the track. I get the same lousy performance in both forward and reverse. Like Dave, I've cleaned, polished, checked the brushes, centered the field, all that stuff--but still the same drop-off after a few minutes of running. I've considered that the truck may need re-bushing, but RB's suggestion gives me another possibility. Thanks. John Eichmann Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1541	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Re: Armature Winding Shorts

There has been a lengthy discourse lately on problems with armature winding shorts, bad diesel truck sideframes and wornout axel bearings. It makes me wonder why with the new products from AM and SHS why bother with it all. I have only one AF loco left on my roster, a 290, and I am going to remotor it when I can find a can motor conversion kit from American Hi-rail or Dallee Electronics. One of my current projects is building a Comet passenger train with a AM PA as the loco and passenger cars made up from AF and LF bodies with new floors and AM hi-rail passenger trucks. The AM PA is a excellent runner with two can motors and three flywheels, it operates as smooth as silk! 'S', Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1542	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Re: Armature Winding Shorts

In a message dated 2/8/99 1:08:11 PM, TPDavis7@... wrote: Tom asks, <<There has been a lengthy discourse lately on problems with armature winding shorts, bad diesel truck sideframes and wornout axel bearings. It makes me wonder why with the new products from AM and SHS why bother with it all.>> Well, the old Flyer has it charms, too. For some of us, part of the thrill is operating the old ones, even to the point of having to bring back them back to life. Finding and buying something brand new isn't much of a challenge. In the case of steam engines, there has been only one new offering in the last 40 years (from AM) suitable for tinplate operation in S gauge and it costs $450. A 326 (for example) in E condition with smoke, choo-choo, and air chime whistle for around $250 is a positive bargain. As a practical matter, there is less of a case for the diesels, but the feel, sound, and smell of the old PA/PB's and GP-7's bring back good memories, too. I buy and operate some of the new stuff - it's very good. It is quiet and smooth, but the price for this is that they are rather dull to experience (Something like HO's!). Whereas, tinplate trains have alot more energy, color, and life to them. There is something about a smoke-in-tender AF steamer that captures part of the 'real thing' like no other. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1543	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Re: Armature Winding Shorts

Tom wrote: ". It makes me wonder why with the new products from AM and SHS why bother with it all. " Well, many reasons!: 1) We're masochistic 2) We like the challenge 3) We're CHEAP! (fixing takes less capital than buying new) 4) We're in therapy (see #1) 5) It's part of the nostalgia 6) Once it's done right, they do run well for long periods. 7) It's fun! (See, #1, 2, 5) 8) Parts are fairly readily available, unlike many new components (Try finding a replacement can motor for the original SP GP loco that L made). 9) We get to meet neat people and have lots of fun 'discussing' the 'right' way to fix them (See #1,2,4,5, 7) 10) A C Gilbert forever!!! S' David D. (grinning from ear to ear)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1544	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Re: Armature Winding Shorts

David D, Thanks for your reply. Until about four years ago most of my locos and rolling stock was made up of rebuilt AF junkers. But at that time I decided to go into S scale, you know, code 100 and 125 rail, handlaid on stained wooden ties, scale wheel sets and KD couplers. But all of that exactness took some of the fun out of it for me. Again about six months ago I decide that hi-rail would be the way to go. The only AF piece I operate is a rebuilt, repainted, decaled for the B&O, equipped with SHS hi-rail trucks and AF compatible couplers, caboose. On the AM powered Comet passenger train I am building the observation car carries the name "A C Gilbert" on it's sides. Right now I operate over AM code 148 track, but as soon as the 29"R curved track is available from SHS I will be changing over to there new track system, an outstanding product. Although I like the new products better, my begining was with AF which I still enjoy seeing operate. I like to think that if AC was still at the helm, AF would be producing products at the same or higher level then AM or SHS. 'S' Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1545	From: Dave Heine	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: LVSG Update

I've updated the Lehigh Valley S Gaugers Webpages. The major change was the addition of some pictures of Frank Titman's Spiral Hill railroad. Follow the links to members, then to Frank. There is a summary page of picture descriptions, so you don't need to wait for any pictures you don't want to see. http://members.xoom.com/lvsg Dave Heine Lehigh & Western Railroad (Sn3) Hemm-Locke Lumber Co. (Sn3) Jamestown and Jennville Railroad (Sn2)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1546	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Trades

I'm hunting a couple items: Have two non-dynamic brake sections for AM GP-35 would like to trade for two dynamic brake sections for the GP-35 Have 5 or 6 Miller Hirail DC power trucks all axles powered want to trade for Miller Scale DC trucks even dummy trucks with scale wheels. Looking for 6 Miller switcher brass side handrail posts Still looking for 3 Lindberg Mini Lindy Vegas Have one Sylvania Illinois Central ACF motorrailer nose casting Thanks Gale Hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1547	From: RKuep44202@aol.com	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: GARGRAVES TRACK

I have just finished laying cork roadbed on the first level of my new layout, and started to solder sections of Gragraves flextrack together, when I found that the pins have "ears" on them. These ears prevent the sections from butting together by about 1/16th inch, and make it hard (for a poor solderer like me) to solder them together. Is there a reason for the ears, or is there a trick to soldering the sections together? Thanks for any suggestions. Dick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1548	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/8/1999
Subject: Re: GARGRAVES TRACK

Just an idea on my part, but I wouldn't solder the sections together, just in case you want to take apart, and to allow some expansion/contraction from temperature differences. Instead I would solder a little jumper wire, similar to the bonding that the interurban railroads used across rail joints. Should require less 'talent' too! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1549	From: Rodney.Booth@knox.pcec.philips.com	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: 322

I have a AF 322 with smoke in the tender , and the bellow's has holes. Where might I find a replacement bellow's for this tender? Rodney

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1550	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: Ertl

>> There are lots of Ertl farm equiptment items on super discount, that make great flatcar loads. Be sure to take along someone who knows farming, so some nit picker who visits your layout won't be able to point out that the item is "too modern" for your layout. Happy Hunting Tom Gerbasi _______________________________________________________________________________<< Hi Tom, At what kind of store are you finding ERTL on discount? Some farm equipment is easily backdated. Some farm equipment does not need to be backdated. Much ERTL is okay back through the '60's; the hay rack can be used WAY back. The folding disk is okay if it is cut down to be not so wide. When cut narrower, it can be used back to the 50's. The chisel plow is modern. The round baler is modern. These items are okay back to the 60's; gravity box, square baler, ammonia tank, silage chopper, sileage box, planter not bad, grain drill not bad, Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division SUPER SUNDAY - FEB. 14 WWW.NASCAR.COM ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1551	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Message: 10 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:52:04 -0500 (EST) From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) Subject: vehicles <snip>This should be a must for PRR fans, as PRR and Campbell's had an interlocking directorate. Tom J There was a wonderful web page describing the PRR's tomato cars that ran from Lancaster County, PA to downtown Camden where the tomatoes became soup. I assume they used the Delair bridge then south to Camden. Anyway, I have to apologize because I could find the URL this morning. But what a good modeling opportunity, farms of Paradise to the grit of Camden.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1552	From: MARIA W BRYAN	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: Re: 322

Dear Rodney, You may want to repair the tear(s) in the bellows material of your tender with a product called GOO. It adheres well to that material and it stays pliable, which is important due to the constant flexing motion that takes place there. It is available at well-stocked hobby stores. Bobby Bryan Farmington, CT

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1553	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: sideframes, diesels, old stuff

I use a narrow-jawed vise grips with a popsicle stick on the outside of the sideframe to protect it, and the bare metal jaw to crush the rivet. What tightness isn't achieved I make up with Zap-a-Gap. You might go through a few sticks by the time you're done PA. Bearing wear in ACG diesels is a killer - - they set too low, get hot, run funny, and will drive you nuts. The best thing I ever did was replace the original chassis in my 470 and 371 with later model Lionel chassis (with bushings). Cooler, smoother, less tweaky to loose sideframes, and faaassst. I'd try that before rewinding. On the old stuff, I ditto the well-worded response about their heft, color, speed, sounds, and smell. The new stuff (and I run some AM/SHS) is cool, but prefer getting the oldies to live again. A friend of mine once described the restorative side of toy trains as an evocative hobby - - evoking sights, smells, sounds and memories left dormant, but still resident, in our minds from years ago...plus it's fun.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1554	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: Re: GARGRAVES TRACK

RKuep44202@... wrote: > > From: RKuep44202@... > > I have just finished laying cork roadbed on the first level of my new layout, > and started to solder sections of Gragraves flextrack together, when I found > that the pins have "ears" on them. These ears prevent the sections from > butting together by about 1/16th inch, and make it hard (for a poor solderer > like me) to solder them together. Is there a reason for the ears, or is there > a trick to soldering the sections together? Thanks for any suggestions. > > Dick I believe the ears are there to avoid inserting too much of the pin in one side of the joint - in other words, to keep the pin centered. If you want to solder them together there is no harm in filing off the ears, provided you make sure the pin is inserted into both rails and not pushed all the way into one or the other upon insertion. BTW, I never solder my Gargraves because I like to be able to relocate/reuse it. I prefer to soldwer jumper leads from the rails to a bus under the table. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1555	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: Re: 322

Rodney.Booth@... wrote: > > From: <Rodney.Booth@...> > > I have a AF 322 with smoke in the tender , and the bellow's has holes. > Where might I find a replacement bellow's for this tender? > Rodney I once bought some from Ron Leventon. Doug Peck might also stock it. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1556	From: Mark Preman	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

The February list is up. Anybody like Minicraft? Have a few nice pieces in the original boxes. Think your sweety will get you a train for Valentines Day? "E" you later! Mark B. Preman http://www.americanflyertrains.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1557	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: Why Bother?

I hope you'll forgive me if I belabor the question that Tom Davis asked, but I feel compelled to respond. You make a valid argument, Tom. The new stuff from SHS and AM is wonderful, and I'll continue to purchase it because it pleases me. However, David Dewey hits all the salient reasons for restoring AF, and I especially like #3: "We're CHEAP!" Though many of us started and have continued restoration because of financial necessity, for me the need goes much deeper and, as Lear said, "O, reason not the need!" I won't go into detail in this forum, but I refer you to my guest opinion (The Last Stop) in the January/February 1997 S Gaugian, entitled, "In Defense of Mutts." That explains the reason "why I bother." (If you don't have a copy, e-mail me directly and I'll attach it in response.) YourS, John "Mutt Man" Eichmann RMHR Boise jeichmann@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1558	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/9/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Wait a minute, here. The tomatoes became soup IN TRANSIT?? I've spent over 25 years around transit-truck-mixed concrete, but this is a new one. Mac at Fuse ADSL wrote: > > > Message: 10 > > Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1999 16:52:04 -0500 (EST) > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > Subject: vehicles > > <snip>This should be a must for PRR fans, as PRR and Campbell's had > > an interlocking directorate. Tom J > > There was a wonderful web page describing the PRR's tomato cars that > ran from Lancaster County, PA to downtown Camden where the tomatoes > became soup. I assume they used the Delair bridge then south to > Camden. Anyway, I have to apologize because I could find the URL this > morning. But what a good modeling opportunity, farms of Paradise to > the grit of Camden.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1559	From: William H Trefts	Date: 2/10/1999
Subject: Replacement material for SIT bellows

For Rodney, I have a modern nylon based material that I use in player piano restoration. I have supplied some to a local Flyer repairman who uses it and likes it. If you would like to try it, contact me at: wmhtreftsv@... Bill ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1560	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 2/10/1999
Subject: Re: Digging into the Archives??

Dave and Fellow 'S'ers, May I be the first to congratulate you for having the initiative to wade into those old modeling files! I need to do some of that myself. Here is what little information I have on the vendors you mention (good news first): 1. Ye Old-n-Puff - To the best of my knowledge, this vendor is alive and well. I purchased some S detail parts directly from them a couple of years ago; I bought one of their kits at the NASG convention last summer. In addition, I continue to see their ads in the major model rr press. 2. Omnicon - I think this one is gone. I haven't seen any ads for them in several years, nor has any information regarding new products been forthcoming in quite a while. Perhaps Don Thompson (SHS) or Bill Wade (BTS) or others may have more information along these lines, since they are plugged directly into the S manufacturer network. That's what I got, for what it's worth. 'S'incerely, Jay Mellon Crescent City S Gaugers New Orleans, LA > ---------- > From: Dave and Kathy Engle[SMTP:ironhors@...] > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 1999 8:49AM > To: S-TRAINS > Subject: [S-Trains] Digging into the Archives?? > > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > > Have been going through files of vendors past and present to straighten > up the system, and am finding some that I am going to toss the names out > to see if they are around anymore, or of they should just go into the > inactive file. There are a few mfrs. that are long gone, others, I am > not sure of. For example: What is current status of: Omnicon Models > Ye Old Huff-n-Puff > for starters. > > More as I get a chance to sort out the mess. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1561	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/10/1999
Subject: Re: Replacement bellows for SIT units

I just bought one from Doug Peck at Port Lines Hobbies for a 312 that I'm restoring.. He has the ones made of real rubber that are excellent replacements. P.S........Hi to the "Mutt Man" if he really exists Steve Blackburn TCA, NASG Boise, Idaho... RMHR

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1562	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/11/1999
Subject: CHEAP! plastic auto kits

Hi All, Some days back I mentioned finding some $4 plastic model kits at the hobby shop in Chico. Someone asked me for more details, but I've lost track of whom & figured the rest of the gang might want to know anyway! The two I have come in a plastic bag with a paper header. The maker is Glencoe Models Inc., Box 846 Northboro, MA 01532. I have a 1915 Ford Sedan (model T) and a 1910 Pierce Arrow touring car, both in 1/59 scale. The T is molded in Black, has 14 "precision molded parts", the Pierce is in deep blue, with 20 parts. Their web site is at : http://www.glencoemodels.com/ though I didn't see anything about these car kits there. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1563	From: softmoods@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/11/1999
Subject: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES

SCALE MODELERS, IN DESIGNING MY 'S' SCALE LAYOUT, I'M HAVING TROUBLE SETTLING UPON A MINMUM RADIUS CURVES. LOCOMOTIVES TO BE USED: GP 35, SD 40-2, SD 60, DDA40x (SCRATCH BUILDING) ROUGH TIME FRAME: 1970 - PRESENT I'M LOOKING FOR SUGGESTIONS AND THOUGHTS. ROBERT

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1564	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/11/1999
Subject: Re: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES

NMRA recommended minimum radius for scale operations is 36" . For what it may be worth, I want to design a small layout (10x21 ft.) that has a minimum of 48" on mainlines and 36" radius elsewhere because I want full-length passenger trains, no foreshortened cars. I can get two loops around, but I'd like to get a 3rd loop in there, especially since there are future exits in one corner at the high and low elevations of track. I want to run short and medium-length passenger trains, full-length cars. If you were running reight only, you could hide tighter curves and get away with more runs--am no expert, just a few ideas. softmoods@... wrote: > From: softmoods@... > > SCALE MODELERS, > > IN DESIGNING MY 'S' SCALE LAYOUT, I'M HAVING TROUBLE SETTLING UPON A MINMUM > RADIUS CURVES. > > LOCOMOTIVES TO BE USED: GP 35, SD 40-2, SD 60, DDA40x (SCRATCH BUILDING) > > ROUGH TIME FRAME: 1970 - PRESENT > > I'M LOOKING FOR SUGGESTIONS AND THOUGHTS. > > ROBERT > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1565	From: D Simon	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: A. F. Inventory program

I am trying to find an inventory program for my AF train collection. It would be great if I could also put pics in it Thanks Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1566	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory program

In a message dated 2/12/99 9:44:34 AM, aftrain@... wrote: <<I am trying to find an inventory program for my AF train collection. It would be great if I could also put pics in it Thanks Dave>> TrainTracker with the American Flyer data base comes close to what you may be looking for. This is a PC-based program. However, there is not any way that I know of that would allow you to attach pictures to the product that you generate. The other limitation is that TrainTracker does not list sets in its AF data base (and I have found errors in it), but it's not bad as these things go. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1567	From: Heine, David L.	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory Program

Dave, Albion Software makes an inventory program called Railbase Professional that has provisions for pictures, and a whole lot of other stuff. You can check out the following URL for more information: http://www.penn.com/albion BTW, I do not use this program, but I recently purchased their Ship It! Car Cards program. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1568	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES

> IN DESIGNING MY 'S' SCALE LAYOUT, I'M HAVING TROUBLE SETTLING UPON A MINMUM > RADIUS CURVES. Hi, Since I have not yet built my layout you can regard my comments as just theory... Before SEEING THE LIGHT and converting to S i had a HO setup and when i started to redo the design to S i spent a lot of time researching this exact question. I finally put down short lenghts of test rail to experiment. I wanted to run my 72' passenger cars behind my 80' GG-1, geeze... I also REALLY wanted to keep the basic layout of my HO design (in the same space of course). The bottom line is that I ended up going with 40" min. Why: 1) it seemed to work on my test track - note that i say "work" not "look good". This was enough for me since almost all of my curves of this radius would be hidden. 2) it got me what i wanted in my design. Though things will be VERY tight. We will see. Since I have redone my design at 40" i have gotten an Ommincon(?) PRR M1a (4-8-2). It seems to have a little trouble on my test curve (shorting out). I think i can overcome this though. My 2c, kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1569	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES

In message <19990211220801.D3718F522D@...>, softmoods@... writes >From: softmoods@... > >SCALE MODELERS, > >IN DESIGNING MY 'S' SCALE LAYOUT, I'M HAVING TROUBLE SETTLING UPON A MINMUM >RADIUS CURVES. > >LOCOMOTIVES TO BE USED: GP 35, SD 40-2, SD 60, DDA40x (SCRATCH BUILDING) > >ROUGH TIME FRAME: 1970 - PRESENT > >I'M LOOKING FOR SUGGESTIONS AND THOUGHTS. > My SD9 will go round a 30 inch radius but the following 50ft boxcars don't like it - If you can try for a minimum of 36-39 inches, -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1570	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: Minimum Radius

> softmoods@... wrote: > > > From: softmoods@... > > > > SCALE MODELERS, > > > > IN DESIGNING MY 'S' SCALE LAYOUT, I'M HAVING TROUBLE SETTLING UPON A > MINIMUM RADIUS CURVES. > > > > LOCOMOTIVES TO BE USED: GP 35, SD 40-2, SD 60, DDA40x (SCRATCH BUILDING) > > > > ROUGH TIME FRAME: 1970 - PRESENT > > > > I'M LOOKING FOR SUGGESTIONS AND THOUGHTS. > > > > ROBERT > > > I have been with using Gargraves track and bending them along pre-set templates. For the more realistic looks, I have built several templates but using the minimum radius of standard AF track curves. The precise measure of radius escapes me. I found that as one uses half curves and tighter radii, there is a tendency to derail and not be as realistic in appearance.. It is also helpful to slightly bank the curves as smooth operations. I hope this is of some help. If you want the precise radii, please e-mail me directly and I will check and reply. V. Neimanis (v.neimanis@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1571	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: Indian Stuff]

Oh Lookie what someone sent me. This just for you guy"S". Enjoy; Roger Injuns in luv. > "Woooooo! Woooooo! Woooooo!" > > There were two Indians and Joe walking along together in the desert, when, all > of a sudden, one of the Indians took off and ran up this hill to the mouth of > a cave. > > He stopped and hollered into the cave..."Woooooo! Woooooo! Woooooo!" > and then listened very closely until he heard the answer..."Woooooo! Woooooo! > Woooooo!" He then tore off his clothes and ran in to the cave. > > Joe was puzzled and asked the other Indian what that was all about, was that > Indian goofy or something. > > "No", said the other Indian. "It is mating time for us Indians and when you > see a cave and holler, "Woooooo! Woooooo! Woooooo!", and get an answer back, > that means that she is in there waiting for you. > > Well, just about that time, the other Indian saw another cave. He took off and > ran up to the cave, then stopped and hollered, "Woooooo! Woooooo! Woooooo!" > When he heard the return, "Woooooo! Woooooo! Woooooo!", > off came the clothes and into the cave he goes. > > Joe started running around the desert looking for a cave to find these women > that the Indians had talked about. All of a sudden, he looked up and saw this > great big cave. > > As he looked in amazement, he was thinking, "Man! Look at the size of that > cave! It's bigger then the ones that those Indians found. There must really be > something really great in this cave!" > > Well... he took-off up the hill at a super fast speed with his hopes of > esctasy and grandure. He got in front of the cave and hollered, "Woooooo! > Woooooo! Woooooo!" > > He was just tickled all over when he heard the answering call of, "WOOOOOOOOO! > WOOOOOOOOO!! WOOOOOOOOO!!! Off came his clothes and, with a big smile on his > face, he raced into the cave. > > The next day, in the newspaper, the head lines read, > NEKKID GUY RUN OVER BY FREIGHT TRAIN!!! > From: Jimmie M.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1572	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: UPDATE: S Gaugian in Model Train Magazine index

Thanks to Jeff Scherb's help, S Gaugian magazine starting with the Jan/Feb 1980 issue is now in the on-line Model Train Magazine Index located at: http://www.accurail.com/tm.exe A few notes: - Some issues in the 1990s are not currently indexed. This is due to the fact that they were missing a from the collection I had purchased. However an order from the publisher has just recently arrived, and the missing issues should be indexed fairly soon. - I'm currently in the process of manually indexing Product Reviews, The Roundhouse (with some significant help from a submission by Tom Jarcho), track plans, drawings, and the AF Collector Column from the issues starting with Jan/Feb 1980. This will take a little while, but will eventually make it to the index. - Issues prior to 1980 unfortunately do not have Tables of Contents, and will have to be indexed entirely manually. It will take a while to get to these. I do not have issues prior to 1972. If some has these and would be willing to contribute some effort to the indexing project, please contact me off-line. Regards Michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Greene North Grafton, MA 01536 NMRA Life Member #5433 Home e'mail: mgreene@... Past Chair, NMRA DCC Working Group Member, NTRAK, NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, TCA, The 470 Railroad Club For "Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge": http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cedarlane/nmradcc-info.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1573	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: WTB: Jul/Aug 1995 Issue of S Gaugian

I'm looking for a copy of the Jul/Aug 1995 issue S Gaugian magazine. If anyone knows where I might purchase a copy, I'd appreciate an e'mail. Thanks in advance Michael Greene ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Greene North Grafton, MA 01536 NMRA Life Member #5433 Home e'mail: mgreene@... Past Chair, NMRA DCC Working Group Member, NTRAK, NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, TCA, The 470 Railroad Club For "Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge": http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cedarlane/nmradcc-info.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1574	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: QUERY: Omnicon BL-2

While I was reading the March/April 1993 issue of S Gaugian, I came across an article on the November 92 S Fest. It included some pictures of up-coming products, one of which was a BL-2 from Omnicon. Was this ever produced? I model the Bangor & Aroostook Railroad and the BAR had some of these early diesels. They've always been a favorite, and I'd love to have one on my S gauge road... Thanks in advance Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1575	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: PPSSW, May the force with with us

Well Thursday evening the PPSSW visited Ben Trousdale's Benn Central Railroad. Ben had originally built his railroad at about 30some inches from the floor and wanted it raised, not an insignificant task. Obie Wan Japser (AKA Sylas Kayle) mobilized the spirit of the Workshop and focused it upon the task. When we left, the layout was now at 40+ inches with a plan to elevate it more if necessary. When we left for the evening, the trains were back running and the benchwork was much more comfortable for leaning. Never under-estimate the power of the force! Ken Zieska

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1576	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: QUERY: Omnicon BL-2

As far as I know, Omnicon never did the BL-2. Out this way, Rock Island and Missouri Pacific had them, guess there were about 60 built altogether. Michael Greene wrote: > From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> > > While I was reading the March/April 1993 issue of S Gaugian, I came across > an article on the November 92 S Fest. It included some pictures of > up-coming products, one of which was a BL-2 from Omnicon. Was this ever > produced? I model the Bangor & Aroostook Railroad and the BAR had some of > these early diesels. They've always been a favorite, and I'd love to have > one on my S gauge road... > > Thanks in advance > Michael > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1577	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: Indian Stuff]

Speaking of Indians. In the old days before the American Indian had the benefit of modern medicine, when an Indian woman was going to birth a child, she would simply lay down on an animal hide and, as they say, let nature take its course. One day in the village, one squaw went into labor, laid down on a deer hide, and had one son. Several hours later, another squaw went into labor, laid down on a buffalo hide, and had one son. The next morning, a third squaw went into labor, laid down on a hippopotamus hide, and had two sons. Moral of the Story: The sons of the squaw on the hippopotamus hide equals the sons of the squaws on the other two hides. Roger Hinds wrote: > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > > Oh Lookie what someone sent me. This just for you guy"S". > > Enjoy; > > Roger > > Injuns in luv. > > > "Woooooo! Woooooo! Woooooo!" > > > > There were two Indians and Joe walking along together in the desert, when, all > > of a sudden, one of the Indians took off and ran up this hill to the mouth of > > a cave. > > > > He stopped and hollered into the cave..."Woooooo! Woooooo! Woooooo!" > > and then listened very closely until he heard the answer..."Woooooo! Woooooo! > > Woooooo!" He then tore off his clothes and ran in to the cave. > > > > Joe was puzzled and asked the other Indian what that was all about, was that > > Indian goofy or something. > > > > "No", said the other Indian. "It is mating time for us Indians and when you > > see a cave and holler, "Woooooo! Woooooo! Woooooo!", and get an answer back, > > that means that she is in there waiting for you. > > > > Well, just about that time, the other Indian saw another cave. He took off and > > ran up to the cave, then stopped and hollered, "Woooooo! Woooooo! Woooooo!" > > When he heard the return, "Woooooo! Woooooo! Woooooo!", > > off came the clothes and into the cave he goes. > > > > Joe started running around the desert looking for a cave to find these women > > that the Indians had talked about. All of a sudden, he looked up and saw this > > great big cave. > > > > As he looked in amazement, he was thinking, "Man! Look at the size of that > > cave! It's bigger then the ones that those Indians found. There must really be > > something really great in this cave!" > > > > Well... he took-off up the hill at a super fast speed with his hopes of > > esctasy and grandure. He got in front of the cave and hollered, "Woooooo! > > Woooooo! Woooooo!" > > > > He was just tickled all over when he heard the answering call of, "WOOOOOOOOO! > > WOOOOOOOOO!! WOOOOOOOOO!!! Off came his clothes and, with a big smile on his > > face, he raced into the cave. > > > > The next day, in the newspaper, the head lines read, > > NEKKID GUY RUN OVER BY FREIGHT TRAIN!!! > > From: Jimmie M. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1578	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/12/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 135

In a message dated 2/12/99 12:52:59 PM Mountain Standard Time, S- Trains@onelist.com writes: << From: "D Simon" <aftrain@...> Subject: A. F. Inventory program I am trying to find an inventory program for my AF train collection. It would be great if I could also put pics in it Thanks Dave >> Contact Dave Allen at Dave0616@... He has a nice computer inventory program for your Flyer trains....Regards...steve Blackburn RMHR..Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1579	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: QUERY: Omnicon BL-2

In message <4.1.19990212221120.00b3a370@...>, Michael Greene <mgreene@...> writes >From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> > >While I was reading the March/April 1993 issue of S Gaugian, I came across >an article on the November 92 S Fest. It included some pictures of >up-coming products, one of which was a BL-2 from Omnicon. Was this ever >produced? I model the Bangor & Aroostook Railroad and the BAR had some of >these early diesels. They've always been a favorite, and I'd love to have >one on my S gauge road... > >Thanks in advance >Michael I asked Omnicon the status of this locomotive at the NASG convention in Altoona in 95. The answer was maybe ....sometime. but all very uncommitted. Apart from the Shark I'm not aware of any recent Omnicom releases. If you want to see real BAR BL2s go to Janesville WI, where the late Glen Mohart's collection reside - Quite what will happen to these locomotive now is anybody's guess. Incidently the last remaining Shark(s) are mothballed on the Escanaba & Lake Superior - the railroad I model. -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1580	From: Bill Horzempa	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 135

The new version (3.01) does allow you to include pictures in your inventory. You'll need a digital camera to take the picture and then you can import it into your collection. S-Trains@onelist.com wrote: > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > There are 5 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. 'S' SCALE RADIUSES > From: softmoods@... > 2. Re: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > 3. A. F. Inventory program > From: "D Simon" <aftrain@...> > 4. Re: A. F. Inventory program > From: RBubeck327@... > 5. Re: A. F. Inventory Program > From: "Heine, David L." <DHeine@...> > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:08:01 -0700 (MST) > From: softmoods@... > Subject: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES > > SCALE MODELERS, > > IN DESIGNING MY 'S' SCALE LAYOUT, I'M HAVING TROUBLE SETTLING UPON A MINMUM > RADIUS CURVES. > > LOCOMOTIVES TO BE USED: GP 35, SD 40-2, SD 60, DDA40x (SCRATCH BUILDING) > > ROUGH TIME FRAME: 1970 - PRESENT > > I'M LOOKING FOR SUGGESTIONS AND THOUGHTS. > > ROBERT > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:44:24 -0600 > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > Subject: Re: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES > > NMRA recommended minimum radius for scale operations is 36" . For what it may > be worth, I want to design a small layout (10x21 ft.) that has a minimum of > 48" on mainlines and 36" radius elsewhere because I want full-length passenger > trains, no foreshortened cars. I can get two loops around, but I'd like to get > a 3rd loop in there, especially since there are future exits in one corner at > the high and low elevations of track. I want to run short and medium-length > passenger trains, full-length cars. If you were running reight only, you could > hide tighter curves and get away with more runs--am no expert, just a few > ideas. > > softmoods@... wrote: > > > From: softmoods@... > > > > SCALE MODELERS, > > > > IN DESIGNING MY 'S' SCALE LAYOUT, I'M HAVING TROUBLE SETTLING UPON A MINMUM > > RADIUS CURVES. > > > > LOCOMOTIVES TO BE USED: GP 35, SD 40-2, SD 60, DDA40x (SCRATCH BUILDING) > > > > ROUGH TIME FRAME: 1970 - PRESENT > > > > I'M LOOKING FOR SUGGESTIONS AND THOUGHTS. > > > > ROBERT > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 06:44:22 PST > From: "D Simon" <aftrain@...> > Subject: A. F. Inventory program > > I am trying to find an inventory program for my AF train collection. > It would be great if I could also put pics in it > Thanks > Dave > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:41:32 EST > From: RBubeck327@... > Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory program > > In a message dated 2/12/99 9:44:34 AM, aftrain@... wrote: > > <<I am trying to find an inventory program for my AF train collection. > It would be great if I could also put pics in it > Thanks > Dave>> > > TrainTracker with the American Flyer data base comes close to what you may be > looking for. This is a PC-based program. However, there is not any way that > I know of that would allow you to attach pictures to the product that you > generate. The other limitation is that TrainTracker does not list sets in its > AF data base (and I have found errors in it), but it's not bad as these things > go. > > Hope this helps. > > RB > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:57:22 -0500 > From: "Heine, David L." <DHeine@...> > Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory Program > > Dave, > > Albion Software makes an inventory program called Railbase Professional that > has provisions for pictures, and a whole lot of other stuff. You can check > out the following URL for more information: > > http://www.penn.com/albion > > BTW, I do not use this program, but I recently purchased their Ship It! Car > Cards program. > > Dave Heine > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1581	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Radius

Looks like it is FAQ time again! Bill Krause, Tom Hawley, Don DeWitt, and other NASG members researched the radius question when developing module standards for S scale in the early '80's. Bill reported on this research in the club newsletter, and in the NASG Dispatch. Their objective was to find curves that would look good, permit use of large steam engines and passenger cars, and be small enough to transport. The following information is from Bill's report. "NMRA will tell you that curves should be no less than 54 inches." Doug Miller used an engineering graphic computer to develop a design using inside curve of 46 inches, and outside curve of 47-9/16 inches. Additional work by Bill using NMRA and John Armstrong date showed that using a track separation of 3-3/8 inch center-to-center would "allow a Big Boy locomotive to pass, on the inside curve, and 85 foot passenger car travelling on the outside curve." These standards, now known as the S-MOD standards, are equally applicable for all forms of standard gauge S scale (AF, hi-rail, and model) railroads. My club uses code 148 rail and we run all variations of S scale, standard gauge. Some clubs also have incorporated narrow gauge on their modules. The standards are available through the NASG; $8, plus $5 for a corner module addendum. There is a discounted price for NASG members (everybody in S scale is an NASG member, right???); $5, plus $3 for the addendum. Ordering information is in most issues of the NASG Dispatch. I currently fill the orders, so you may contact me directly. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division SUPER SUNDAY - FEB. 14 WWW.NASCAR.COM ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1582	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: Radius

Mr. Larson: I am the one who tossed out the 36-inch minimum radius as a K.I.S.S. solution when this was first asked. My source is my memory of the NMRA RP-25 recommended practices that were issued long before NMRA and NASG realized they needed to work together instead of separately.. Actually, NMRA had a layout class letter system from A to J or something like that-- as you increased the lengths of locos and cars you wanted to use on your layout, the class letter went up, and each letter's corresponding minimum radii and track center spacings, especially on curves, increased accordingly. I am NOT disagreeing with S-MOD recommendations, the crunch for me at the moment is trying to fit a 3-times-around mainline in a midwestern(that is, no mountain terrain) setting into a 10x21-foot space. My old layout that came down 2+ years ago at previous home was around the wall, had a 60" minimum corner (with 1-inch wide by 12" long easements) in one corner, two corners were 54", the rest 48". The yard along two sides of the wall was 48" rad. on the outside track, and 33" on the sinside, 3-inch increments. Yes, the passenger trains I want but have not built yet would have done well. No, I am not modeling Santa Fe's Raton Pass, with its 4% grades and curves so tight that 4 or 5 passenger cars make a full 90-degree turn, but no one has the space for what Santa Fe is doing between Clovis and Albuquerque. (See current TRAINS Mag). That is new double-track on 25-foot centers. Wheee. mhrreast@... wrote: > From: mhrreast@... > > Looks like it is FAQ time again! > > Bill Krause, Tom Hawley, Don DeWitt, and other NASG > members researched the radius question when developing > module standards for S scale in the early '80's. Bill reported on this > research in the club newsletter, and in the NASG Dispatch. > > Their objective was to find curves that would look good, > permit use of large steam engines and passenger cars, > and be small enough to transport. > > The following information is from Bill's report. > "NMRA will tell you that curves should be no less than 54 inches." > Doug Miller used an engineering graphic computer to > develop a design using inside curve of 46 inches, > and outside curve of 47-9/16 inches. Additional work by > Bill using NMRA and John Armstrong date showed that using > a track separation of 3-3/8 inch center-to-center would "allow a > Big Boy locomotive to pass, on the inside curve, and 85 foot > passenger car travelling on the outside curve." > > These standards, now known as the S-MOD standards, > are equally applicable for all forms of standard gauge S scale > (AF, hi-rail, and model) railroads. My club uses code > 148 rail and we run all variations of S scale, standard > gauge. Some clubs also have incorporated narrow gauge > on their modules. The standards are available through > the NASG; $8, plus $5 for a corner module addendum. There > is a discounted price for NASG members (everybody in S scale > is an NASG member, right???); $5, plus $3 for the addendum. > Ordering information is in most issues of the NASG > Dispatch. I currently fill the orders, so you may contact > me directly. > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > SUPER SUNDAY - FEB. 14 > WWW.NASCAR.COM > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1583	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Handrails

What opinions do you have regarding appearance and durabilty, especially in and out of the box for going to train shows, of handrails for AM GP's; use the plastic kit handrails, or replace with wire? Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division SUPER SUNDAY - FEB. 14 WWW.NASCAR.COM ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1584	From: Craig Stair	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: Handrails

Not much. At the Dallas train show in Jan., I pulled my EL GP35 out of the box and found out the front rails were all broken. Was was planning on looking into the rails that Des Plaines has(they bought from Plano), but I have not done that yet. The rails on my RS-3 are not looking very good either. Craig Stair > -----Original Message----- > From: mhrreast@... [mailto:mhrreast@...] > Sent: Saturday, February 13, 1999 8:37 AM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Handrails > > > From: mhrreast@... > > > What opinions do you have regarding appearance and > durabilty, especially in and out of the box for going to > train shows, > of handrails for AM GP's; > use the plastic kit handrails, > or replace with wire? > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > SUPER SUNDAY - FEB. 14 > WWW.NASCAR.COM > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1585	From: Craig Stair	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory program

I bought TrainTracker from Greenburg when it first came out. At that time, it was poorly supported. It had a fancy anti-copying mechanism in it which caused problems and I was unable to use the program after about 6 months because of this mechanism. Requests from REEF went unanswered. It was the most expensive program that I have ever bought that I had to throw away. I just checked the web site for TrainTracker and you cannot download a demo version. I would guess that since the program is still around, it has fixed these issues, but without a demo version, I will not risk it again. I see they have a Win version now. Craig Stair > -----Original Message----- > From: RBubeck327@... [mailto:RBubeck327@...] > Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 9:42 AM > To: aftrain@...; S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: A. F. Inventory program > > > From: RBubeck327@... > > > In a message dated 2/12/99 9:44:34 AM, aftrain@... wrote: > > <<I am trying to find an inventory program for my AF train collection. > It would be great if I could also put pics in it > Thanks > Dave>> > > TrainTracker with the American Flyer data base comes close to > what you may be > looking for. This is a PC-based program. However, there is not > any way that > I know of that would allow you to attach pictures to the product that you > generate. The other limitation is that TrainTracker does not > list sets in its > AF data base (and I have found errors in it), but it's not bad as > these things > go. > > Hope this helps. > > RB > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1586	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory program

In a message dated 2/13/99 10:02:44 AM, cstair@... wrote: <<I would guess that since the program is still around, it has fixed these issues, but without a demo version, I will not risk it again. I see they have a Win version now.>> I have a copy of the current WINTEL version and it works OK. I do wish there was a MAC version. I have been using it extensively recently with no significant problems. It has a few errors (easily corrrectable) in the database and it does not list sets, but it does work well. Whether or not it is the best alternative is another issue. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1587	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Re: Handrails

In message <19990213.093357.21391.0.mhrreast@...>, mhrreast@... writes >From: mhrreast@... > > >What opinions do you have regarding appearance and >durabilty, especially in and out of the box for going to >train shows, >of handrails for AM GP's; >use the plastic kit handrails, >or replace with wire? Hi Ted and others I'm custom painting for customers a couple of AM GP9/18s at present - I'm finding te handrails are always springing loose - ACC seems to be holding them at present but how much rough treatment they'll take in the future is debateable. I certainly will be using the S Scale /America - DPH handrails for my own models. -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1588	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/13/1999
Subject: Progress of Sorts

Greetings to members of the modern prototype S list. Well the letters to the offlisters are going in the mail this weekend. Probably it will take until March before we get any replies. Anybody got anything for the next newsletter? Maybe each of us should post an item about what kind of modern modeling we are doing so others can see where we are all at. I asked Gale Hall and Skip Mersereau to contact Tom Hodgson about modern locos and freight cars. Dab Bailey is working on a working roller bearing truck. cheers Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1589	From: alice beachy	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Handrails and BL-2s

Hi Everyone, I agree with all the comments on AM handrails. First it took several trys to find a product that would hold them on sufficiently. Tom Seccia of Triple S supplies recommended a plastic rubber compound (such as Duro in black). That seems to hold the best for me. However, I won't take my Geeps to any shows that are not local in Richmond, VA. That's a shame because I love to run traditional N&W 3 GP9 lashups with a long coal drag of AM 2 bay hoppers or mixed freight including my custom decaled N&W and Virginian SHS covered hoppers. That's something one can not see from the 3 railers at shows. For those of us on the east coast. The nearest BL2 I know of is at the Cass Scenic RR in West Virginia. It is an ex Western Maryland and it is still running.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1590	From: Bill Horzempa	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Train Tracker

I have been using TrainTracker since its early DOS days and it has come a long way. My observations and what I like about the program: - The current version 3.02 is easy to install and easy to use. - It has a nice feature that allows you to export your holdings file to a spreadsheet program such as LOTUS or EXCEL. You can then load your holdings file onto a Palm Pilot or other Windows handheld CE device. (With a little effort you can also download the "Master" file to the same device.) This is nice as you can carry a record of your collection and the Greenberg determined value of all AF trains in your pocket as you walk around train shows. - I too have discovered bugs when they first released a new version. To their credit they have been very quick to correct the problems and re-ship an updated program disk or cd. (They even called me over one weekend to help with a specific problem.) For a small operation I'd rate their support quite good. - Updating or over riding the database is easy and they are adding more S Gauge manufactures. Overall I'm very happy with the product.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1591	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: MPSM News and SD50s?

In message <000301be57a1$e79e1240$12b2acce@k6-2-3d---333>, Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> writes >From: "Alex Binkley" <alex.binkley@...> > >Greetings to members of the modern prototype S list. > Well the letters to the offlisters are going in the mail this weekend. >Probably it will take until March before we get any replies. > Anybody got anything for the next newsletter? Hi Alex Have you seen the very good article in February 99 issue of Trains on the Canadian RaiLink operations - It makes my Ontario North Shore RR (ONS) described in a CSSQ newsletter almost believable ! I have set up an associated company NSLX (North Shore Leasing) to supply the power for the ONS - at present I have one locomotive an ex Conrail SW9 in NSLX lettering - but quite soon the RS3 on lease to the Michigan North Shore (MINS) will also be relettered - the RS 18 awaits. The advantage of setting up a leasing company is that you can transfer the locomotives to other RRs - ie my Wisconsin based Whiteoak Finistere & Southern (WF&S). To change the subject totally - Has anybody heard anything of the AM SD50/60 project of late? Are the brass SD50/60s still available, at how much? What min radius will they take.... I'm still wondering if the WF&S can justify one - but the C&NW used SD50/60s extensively in Wisconsin, and on the New England Central 6 axle power is now being used. The WF&S like NECR is a Railtex line. Happy dreaming..... -- Kelvin White Oxford England.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1592	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: SW9 problem

My undec SW9 is finally painted and I'm trying to get it back together. It was coming along fine until I got to the pilots. The front pilot fits fine but the pilot at the cab end won't sit all the way down. I've tried filing the metal a bit but with very little improvement. I'm switching to the MU pilot from the original one but I have tried one of the originals and it doesn't fit either. I didn't notice this when I was taking it apart. Anyone else run into this problem? thanks. Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1593	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Re: MPSM News and SD50s?

Hi Kelvin: I asked Ron Bashista about the SD60 and he said it should be here this year. I think it would be plausible for your railway to be able to obtain some SD60s leasers. I know my railway, the Canada Southern, will be. This is a great time to be modeling because both Canada and the U.S. have shortlines of all sizes and there will be even more in the future. Anything becomes plausible if you look hard enough. I think this unit will be a great superdetailing project. I have seen brass SD60s for sale on Bill Wade's list. I think the price was $800.U.S. Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1594	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Re: SW9 problem

In message <000501be5844$4a836ca0$23b2acce@k6-2-3d---333>, Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> writes >From: "Alex Binkley" <alex.binkley@...> > > My undec SW9 is finally painted and I'm trying to get it back together. It >was coming along fine until I got to the pilots. The front pilot fits fine >but the pilot at the cab end won't sit all the way down. I've tried filing >the metal a bit but with very little improvement. I'm switching to the MU >pilot from the original one but I have tried one of the originals and it >doesn't fit either. I didn't notice this when I was taking it apart. > Anyone else run into this problem? thanks. Yep - but is easily cured take a round file and open the diam of the holes on the pilot into which the spigots on the chassis fit over - its a two minute job if that. Five SW9s have passed through my hands - its not unique to you - but its no big deal once you know what to do. -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1595	From: Jim Hamlin	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 137

How do I post a question to this list? Thanks -- Jim Hamlin -----Original Message----- From: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 3:07 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 137 > >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > >There are 10 messages in this issue. > >Topics in today's digest: > > 1. Re: QUERY: Omnicon BL-2 > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> > 2. Re: Digest Number 135 > From: Bill Horzempa <Horzempa@...> > 3. Radius > From: mhrreast@... > 4. Re: Radius > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > 5. Handrails > From: mhrreast@... > 6. Re: Handrails > From: "Craig Stair" <cstair@...> > 7. Re: A. F. Inventory program > From: "Craig Stair" <cstair@...> > 8. Re: A. F. Inventory program > From: RBubeck327@... > 9. Re: Handrails > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> > 10. Progress of Sorts > From: "Alex Binkley" <alex.binkley@...> > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 10:08:56 +0000 > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> >Subject: Re: QUERY: Omnicon BL-2 > >In message <4.1.19990212221120.00b3a370@...>, Michael >Greene <mgreene@...> writes >>From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> >> >>While I was reading the March/April 1993 issue of S Gaugian, I came across >>an article on the November 92 S Fest. It included some pictures of >>up-coming products, one of which was a BL-2 from Omnicon. Was this ever >>produced? I model the Bangor & Aroostook Railroad and the BAR had some of >>these early diesels. They've always been a favorite, and I'd love to have >>one on my S gauge road... >> >>Thanks in advance >>Michael > >I asked Omnicon the status of this locomotive at the NASG convention in >Altoona in 95. The answer was maybe ....sometime. but all very >uncommitted. Apart from the Shark I'm not aware of any recent Omnicom >releases. If you want to see real BAR BL2s go to Janesville WI, where >the late Glen Mohart's collection reside - Quite what will happen to >these locomotive now is anybody's guess. > >Incidently the last remaining Shark(s) are mothballed on the Escanaba & >Lake Superior - the railroad I model. >-- >kelvin white > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:20:21 -0500 > From: Bill Horzempa <Horzempa@...> >Subject: Re: Digest Number 135 > >The new version (3.01) does allow you to include pictures in your inventory. >You'll need a digital camera to take the picture and then you can import it into >your collection. > >S-Trains@onelist.com wrote: > >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >> List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >> >> There are 5 messages in this issue. >> >> Topics in today's digest: >> >> 1. 'S' SCALE RADIUSES >> From: softmoods@... >> 2. Re: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES >> From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> >> 3. A. F. Inventory program >> From: "D Simon" <aftrain@...> >> 4. Re: A. F. Inventory program >> From: RBubeck327@... >> 5. Re: A. F. Inventory Program >> From: "Heine, David L." <DHeine@...> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ >> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:08:01 -0700 (MST) >> From: softmoods@... >> Subject: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES >> >> SCALE MODELERS, >> >> IN DESIGNING MY 'S' SCALE LAYOUT, I'M HAVING TROUBLE SETTLING UPON A MINMUM >> RADIUS CURVES. >> >> LOCOMOTIVES TO BE USED: GP 35, SD 40-2, SD 60, DDA40x (SCRATCH BUILDING) >> >> ROUGH TIME FRAME: 1970 - PRESENT >> >> I'M LOOKING FOR SUGGESTIONS AND THOUGHTS. >> >> ROBERT >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ >> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:44:24 -0600 >> From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> >> Subject: Re: 'S' SCALE RADIUSES >> >> NMRA recommended minimum radius for scale operations is 36" . For what it may >> be worth, I want to design a small layout (10x21 ft.) that has a minimum of >> 48" on mainlines and 36" radius elsewhere because I want full-length passenger >> trains, no foreshortened cars. I can get two loops around, but I'd like to get >> a 3rd loop in there, especially since there are future exits in one corner at >> the high and low elevations of track. I want to run short and medium-length >> passenger trains, full-length cars. If you were running reight only, you could >> hide tighter curves and get away with more runs--am no expert, just a few >> ideas. >> >> softmoods@... wrote: >> >> > From: softmoods@... >> > >> > SCALE MODELERS, >> > >> > IN DESIGNING MY 'S' SCALE LAYOUT, I'M HAVING TROUBLE SETTLING UPON A MINMUM >> > RADIUS CURVES. >> > >> > LOCOMOTIVES TO BE USED: GP 35, SD 40-2, SD 60, DDA40x (SCRATCH BUILDING) >> > >> > ROUGH TIME FRAME: 1970 - PRESENT >> > >> > I'M LOOKING FOR SUGGESTIONS AND THOUGHTS. >> > >> > ROBERT >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >> > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >> > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >> > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ >> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 06:44:22 PST >> From: "D Simon" <aftrain@...> >> Subject: A. F. Inventory program >> >> I am trying to find an inventory program for my AF train collection. >> It would be great if I could also put pics in it >> Thanks >> Dave >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ >> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 10:41:32 EST >> From: RBubeck327@... >> Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory program >> >> In a message dated 2/12/99 9:44:34 AM, aftrain@... wrote: >> >> <<I am trying to find an inventory program for my AF train collection. >> It would be great if I could also put pics in it >> Thanks >> Dave>> >> >> TrainTracker with the American Flyer data base comes close to what you may be >> looking for. This is a PC-based program. However, there is not any way that >> I know of that would allow you to attach pictures to the product that you >> generate. The other limitation is that TrainTracker does not list sets in its >> AF data base (and I have found errors in it), but it's not bad as these things >> go. >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> RB >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ >> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 11:57:22 -0500 >> From: "Heine, David L." <DHeine@...> >> Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory Program >> >> Dave, >> >> Albion Software makes an inventory program called Railbase Professional that >> has provisions for pictures, and a whole lot of other stuff. You can check >> out the following URL for more information: >> >> http://www.penn.com/albion >> >> BTW, I do not use this program, but I recently purchased their Ship It! Car >> Cards program. >> >> Dave Heine >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ >> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 07:38:29 EST > From: mhrreast@... >Subject: Radius > >Looks like it is FAQ time again! > >Bill Krause, Tom Hawley, Don DeWitt, and other NASG >members researched the radius question when developing >module standards for S scale in the early '80's. Bill reported on this >research in the club newsletter, and in the NASG Dispatch. > >Their objective was to find curves that would look good, >permit use of large steam engines and passenger cars, >and be small enough to transport. > >The following information is from Bill's report. >"NMRA will tell you that curves should be no less than 54 inches." >Doug Miller used an engineering graphic computer to >develop a design using inside curve of 46 inches, >and outside curve of 47-9/16 inches. Additional work by >Bill using NMRA and John Armstrong date showed that using >a track separation of 3-3/8 inch center-to-center would "allow a >Big Boy locomotive to pass, on the inside curve, and 85 foot >passenger car travelling on the outside curve." > >These standards, now known as the S-MOD standards, >are equally applicable for all forms of standard gauge S scale >(AF, hi-rail, and model) railroads. My club uses code >148 rail and we run all variations of S scale, standard >gauge. Some clubs also have incorporated narrow gauge >on their modules. The standards are available through >the NASG; $8, plus $5 for a corner module addendum. There >is a discounted price for NASG members (everybody in S scale >is an NASG member, right???); $5, plus $3 for the addendum. >Ordering information is in most issues of the NASG >Dispatch. I currently fill the orders, so you may contact >me directly. > >Ted Larson >Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > SUPER SUNDAY - FEB. 14 > WWW.NASCAR.COM > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:09:05 -0600 > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> >Subject: Re: Radius > >Mr. Larson: I am the one who tossed out the 36-inch minimum radius as a >K.I.S.S. solution when this was first asked. My source is my memory of the >NMRA RP-25 recommended practices that were issued long before NMRA and NASG >realized they needed to work together instead of separately.. Actually, >NMRA had a layout class letter system from A to J or something like that-- >as you increased the lengths of locos and cars you wanted to use on your >layout, the class letter went up, and each letter's corresponding minimum >radii and track center spacings, especially on curves, increased >accordingly. I am NOT disagreeing with S-MOD recommendations, the crunch >for me at the moment is trying to fit a 3-times-around mainline in a >midwestern(that is, no mountain terrain) setting into a 10x21-foot space. >My old layout that came down 2+ years ago at previous home was around the >wall, had a 60" minimum corner (with 1-inch wide by 12" long easements) in >one corner, two corners were 54", the rest 48". The yard along two sides of >the wall was 48" rad. on the outside track, and 33" on the sinside, 3-inch >increments. Yes, the passenger trains I want but have not built yet would >have done well. No, I am not modeling Santa Fe's Raton Pass, with its 4% >grades and curves so tight that 4 or 5 passenger cars make a full 90-degree >turn, but no one has the space for what Santa Fe is doing between Clovis and >Albuquerque. (See current TRAINS Mag). That is new double-track on 25-foot >centers. Wheee. > >mhrreast@... wrote: > >> From: mhrreast@... >> >> Looks like it is FAQ time again! >> >> Bill Krause, Tom Hawley, Don DeWitt, and other NASG >> members researched the radius question when developing >> module standards for S scale in the early '80's. Bill reported on this >> research in the club newsletter, and in the NASG Dispatch. >> >> Their objective was to find curves that would look good, >> permit use of large steam engines and passenger cars, >> and be small enough to transport. >> >> The following information is from Bill's report. >> "NMRA will tell you that curves should be no less than 54 inches." >> Doug Miller used an engineering graphic computer to >> develop a design using inside curve of 46 inches, >> and outside curve of 47-9/16 inches. Additional work by >> Bill using NMRA and John Armstrong date showed that using >> a track separation of 3-3/8 inch center-to-center would "allow a >> Big Boy locomotive to pass, on the inside curve, and 85 foot >> passenger car travelling on the outside curve." >> >> These standards, now known as the S-MOD standards, >> are equally applicable for all forms of standard gauge S scale >> (AF, hi-rail, and model) railroads. My club uses code >> 148 rail and we run all variations of S scale, standard >> gauge. Some clubs also have incorporated narrow gauge >> on their modules. The standards are available through >> the NASG; $8, plus $5 for a corner module addendum. There >> is a discounted price for NASG members (everybody in S scale >> is an NASG member, right???); $5, plus $3 for the addendum. >> Ordering information is in most issues of the NASG >> Dispatch. I currently fill the orders, so you may contact >> me directly. >> >> Ted Larson >> Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division >> SUPER SUNDAY - FEB. 14 >> WWW.NASCAR.COM >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >> List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:37:12 EST > From: mhrreast@... >Subject: Handrails > > >What opinions do you have regarding appearance and >durabilty, especially in and out of the box for going to >train shows, >of handrails for AM GP's; >use the plastic kit handrails, >or replace with wire? > >Ted Larson >Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > SUPER SUNDAY - FEB. 14 > WWW.NASCAR.COM > >___________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 08:51:28 -0600 > From: "Craig Stair" <cstair@...> >Subject: Re: Handrails > >Not much. At the Dallas train show in Jan., I pulled my EL GP35 out of the >box and found out the front rails were all broken. Was was planning on >looking into the rails that Des Plaines has(they bought from Plano), but I >have not done that yet. The rails on my RS-3 are not looking very good >either. > >Craig Stair > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mhrreast@... [mailto:mhrreast@...] >> Sent: Saturday, February 13, 1999 8:37 AM >> To: S-Trains@onelist.com >> Subject: [S-Trains] Handrails >> >> >> From: mhrreast@... >> >> >> What opinions do you have regarding appearance and >> durabilty, especially in and out of the box for going to >> train shows, >> of handrails for AM GP's; >> use the plastic kit handrails, >> or replace with wire? >> >> Ted Larson >> Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division >> SUPER SUNDAY - FEB. 14 >> WWW.NASCAR.COM >> >> ___________________________________________________________________ >> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. >> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html >> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >> List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >> > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 09:02:03 -0600 > From: "Craig Stair" <cstair@...> >Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory program > >I bought TrainTracker from Greenburg when it first came out. At that time, >it was poorly supported. It had a fancy anti-copying mechanism in it which >caused problems and I was unable to use the program after about 6 months >because of this mechanism. Requests from REEF went unanswered. It was the >most expensive program that I have ever bought that I had to throw away. > >I just checked the web site for TrainTracker and you cannot download a demo >version. I would guess that since the program is still around, it has fixed >these issues, but without a demo version, I will not risk it again. I see >they have a Win version now. > >Craig Stair > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: RBubeck327@... [mailto:RBubeck327@...] >> Sent: Friday, February 12, 1999 9:42 AM >> To: aftrain@...; S-Trains@onelist.com >> Subject: [S-Trains] Re: A. F. Inventory program >> >> >> From: RBubeck327@... >> >> >> In a message dated 2/12/99 9:44:34 AM, aftrain@... wrote: >> >> <<I am trying to find an inventory program for my AF train collection. >> It would be great if I could also put pics in it >> Thanks >> Dave>> >> >> TrainTracker with the American Flyer data base comes close to >> what you may be >> looking for. This is a PC-based program. However, there is not >> any way that >> I know of that would allow you to attach pictures to the product that you >> generate. The other limitation is that TrainTracker does not >> list sets in its >> AF data base (and I have found errors in it), but it's not bad as >> these things >> go. >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> RB >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >> List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >> > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 11:10:55 EST > From: RBubeck327@... >Subject: Re: A. F. Inventory program > > >In a message dated 2/13/99 10:02:44 AM, cstair@... wrote: > ><<I would guess that since the program is still around, it has fixed > >these issues, but without a demo version, I will not risk it again. I see > >they have a Win version now.>> > >I have a copy of the current WINTEL version and it works OK. I do wish there >was a MAC version. I have been using it extensively recently with no >significant problems. It has a few errors (easily corrrectable) in the >database and it does not list sets, but it does work well. Whether or not it >is the best alternative is another issue. > >RB > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 19:45:45 +0000 > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> >Subject: Re: Handrails > >In message <19990213.093357.21391.0.mhrreast@...>, >mhrreast@... writes >>From: mhrreast@... >> >> >>What opinions do you have regarding appearance and >>durabilty, especially in and out of the box for going to >>train shows, >>of handrails for AM GP's; >>use the plastic kit handrails, >>or replace with wire? > >Hi Ted and others > >I'm custom painting for customers a couple of AM GP9/18s at present - >I'm finding te handrails are always springing loose - ACC seems to be >holding them at present but how much rough treatment they'll take in the >future is debateable. I certainly will be using the S Scale /America - >DPH handrails for my own models. > > >-- >Kelvin White >Oxford England > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 15:51:35 -0500 > From: "Alex Binkley" <alex.binkley@...> >Subject: Progress of Sorts > >Greetings to members of the modern prototype S list. > Well the letters to the offlisters are going in the mail this weekend. >Probably it will take until March before we get any replies. > Anybody got anything for the next newsletter? > Maybe each of us should post an item about what kind of modern modeling we >are doing so others can see where we are all at. > I asked Gale Hall and Skip Mersereau to contact Tom Hodgson about modern >locos and freight cars. Dab Bailey is working on a working roller bearing >truck. > cheers > >Alex Binkley >Hammond, Ontario >alex.binkley@... > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1596	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: coal loader

I was excited to find a fixer coal loader at the last TCA swap meet. I remembered that I had an article in an old CTT magazine about them. I had a good laugh at the $85-115 price range listed, but was not as happy when I read the warning not to buy one with parts missing. Of course mine has no clamshell, is missing the truck at the top, and came with no roofs. I checked all my parts catalogs and only found roofs availabe. Maybe Doug Peck can answer this one. Why is nobody making repro parts for this accessory? The article said there were lots of coal loaders around. Mine can't be the only one needing repair. Does any one on the list have any parts? Mine came with an extra frame, boom, and gear set. If I can't find parts, I may part out mine. Too bad, I never thought I would be able to afford a coal loader on my layout. P.S. Check out the Matchbox Hollywood Series Lavern and Shirley car. It's a 1/58 scale white, early 50s, Fordish, sedan panel complete with mud around the wheel wells and a fingerprinted "wash me" on the back. Very cool!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1597	From: Richard Snook	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: AM SD60's

All right....I'm sitting down....how much???????? :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1598	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Digitized Trains

I had the use of a digital camera, an MVC-FD81. This camera uses floppy disks to store images. I did not have to load any additional software. I created a video clip. (see http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/library/library.htm) I re-did the All Aboard Panel moving page with actual pictures. (See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/panels/dropndrag.htm) warning this page requires Netscape 4.x (but it's worth it)(its free) Maybe I will fire up the barrel loader on Monday. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1599	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Re: MPSM News and SD50s?

OK, here is another case where a particular model comes out in brass, then later it comes out in a plastic version. Is this a good practice, or a not-so-good one. Is it just coincidence, or what. I've wondered about this, but am not sure what to think. Admittedly, I'd like to see a U25B, and there were rumors/plans of one several years ago, but that is only one of many other possibilities. Alex Binkley wrote: > From: "Alex Binkley" <alex.binkley@...> > > Hi Kelvin: > I asked Ron Bashista about the SD60 and he said it should be here this > year. I think it would be plausible for your railway to be able to obtain > some SD60s leasers. I know my railway, the Canada Southern, will be. > This is a great time to be modeling because both Canada and the U.S. have > shortlines of all sizes and there will be even more in the future. Anything > becomes plausible if you look hard enough. I think this unit will be a great > superdetailing project. > I have seen brass SD60s for sale on Bill Wade's list. I think the price was > $800.U.S. > Alex Binkley > Hammond, Ontario > alex.binkley@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1600	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Re: Handrails and BL-2s

For what it is worth. I dug out my original edition Diesel Spotters' Guide, it lists BL-2s as follows: C&EI 202 was the original BL-1. BAR 50-56, ex 500-506 B&M 1550-1553 C&O 80-82, 83, 1840-1842, 1843-1847 C&EI 200,201 FEC 601-606 MON 30-38 MoPac 4104-4111 RI 425-429 WM 81,82 Are any of them preserved anywhere? alice beachy wrote: > From: alice beachy <abeachy@...> > > Hi Everyone, > > I agree with all the comments on AM handrails. First it took several > trys to find a product that would hold them on sufficiently. Tom Seccia > of Triple S supplies recommended a plastic rubber compound (such as Duro > in black). That seems to hold the best for me. However, I won't take > my Geeps to any shows that are not local in Richmond, VA. That's a > shame because I love to run traditional N&W 3 GP9 lashups with a long > coal drag of AM 2 bay hoppers or mixed freight including my custom > decaled N&W and Virginian SHS covered hoppers. That's something one can > not see from the 3 railers at shows. > > For those of us on the east coast. The nearest BL2 I know of is at the > Cass Scenic RR in West Virginia. It is an ex Western Maryland and it is > still running. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1601	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Radiuses - Oops!

>Doug Miller used an engineering graphic computer to >develop a design using inside curve of 46 inches, >and outside curve of 47-9/16 inches. Oops, in my previous comment about corner radii, I changed subjects to the NASG S-Mod standards without a good transition. As written, my note implies that the above radiiiii are SMOD standards. They are not!!! They are standard radii used by many clubs for their corner modules, but other clubs use smaller radii. Smaller radii use less space, but also don't look quite as good with long radius passenger and freight cars. The many comments made by other people about usable radii are all worthy. I am not disagreeing with any of them. What I really wanted to communicate was that many NASG members have found that you do not need to go wider than 46 inch radius to get good performance. Wider than 46 inches will LOOK better of course. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1602	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: U25-B

Speaking of the GE U25-B, I have heard that there was an S sized plastic toy train that can be kitbashed into a quite respectable U25-B body. Don't remember if two have to be combined, if it has to be combined with a Flyer GP-7 body, or if it just has to be modified. It predated the ERTL loco by some years. I never saw one myself. Does anyone have more information on this? Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1603	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: BL-1 and curves or curves and BL-1s

greetings, I finally broke down and bought myself an American Models Santa Fe GP 9/18 to go with my string of Flyer Santa Fe 24225 hoppers. Am I going to have problems with this engine and my wall to wall:) Pikemaster track? Is it time to move on to Flyer Tinplate, S-helper's new track or even Gargraves to run the engine right way (nose) first? Thanks, Jeff Tangeman ps. What's a Bl-1, I know the GPs and a have a Lionel U25B but BL-1???

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1604	From: Richard Snook	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: BL-1 short answer

BL-1 builder GM-EMD BL...Branch Line 1st incarnation The BL's are a strange cross breed of sorts, can't remember exactly how many BL-1's were built (single figure) ,the only differrence being the type of control used. BL-2's are externally identical but use an electro pnuematic control. They like a wagon body "F" unit have a body where the body members are integral to the framework of the locomotive, unlike current day "hood" body road switchers, but like the Genesis from GE. The body work was quite unique in having essentially what amounted to girders along the sides , shaped to peak just below the window level at the cabs , these stretched out the length of the car body in both long and short directions fairing themselves into the carbody itself. These were GM first true attempt to come to terms with a Road Switcher as opposed to a swithcher with a short nose (like a NW-5). Whilst the principal proved themselves, they were not a maintenance favorite on the roads that purchased them, and of course ALCO showed the "true" way with the RS-1. An interesting LOCO, more details in various books. Hope that gives some sort of idea :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1605	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: BL-1

The BL's was the Edsel of the diesel loco . Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1606	From: Richard Snook	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: re U25B

one & all I have seen the 'alledged" boat, it crops up every now and again at the bigger variety stores here ,so I suppose you guys (Stateside) will see it occasionally also.. Funny I never really looked at it seriously (you wouldn't), I'm not sure if it would even make a Baby Boat, might have a chance as a "newborn " though!!! It comes as part of a set. The only thing usuable (if it is close to the right ratio) would be maybe the cab and certain radiator bits and bobs. Still has piqued my curiosity now, will blow up some drawings to scale and take them with me next time I'm allowed to go shopping. Won't hold my breath, but you never know do ya...would make for one hell of a kit bash ...you start with an egg and end up with a chicken!! :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1607	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/14/1999
Subject: Re: QUERY: Omnicon BL-2

Omnicon probably scrapped the idea since it looked too much like the American Flyer Borden tank load on a flat car. -- Keith Thompson in seattle ;-) > Michael Greene wrote: > >It included some pictures of >up-coming products, one of which was a BL-2 from Omnicon. Was this ever >produced?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1608	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: Handrails and BL-2s

There are several preserved BL2s and I know of at least two still in revenue service on the Wisconsin Southern when needed and they're stored in Janesville, Wis. To see a list of all of the surviving BL2s, look at http://www.logantele.com/~jcampbel/BL2-list.htm. Now, isn't it funny that nobody preserved just one SDP40F or P30CH, the first new passenger diesels of Amtrak? Why not a U33B? There were a lot for the picking when the Rock shut down. We can only guess why more Edsels are preserved than Fairlanes of the same era? -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Dave and Kathy Engle wrote: > > > Are any of them preserved anywhere? >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1609	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Digest Number 138

Jim Hamlin says, >Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:20:30 -0600 > From: "Jim Hamlin" <jlhamlin@...> >Subject: Re: Digest Number 137 > >How do I post a question to this list? Thanks -- Jim Hamlin >-----Original Message----- >From: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> >To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> >Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 3:07 AM >Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 137 JIm, your posting worked! Now when your reply or forward or whatever you are doing, use your page down key (hopefully you realize those keys function) to scoll below your visible screen and delete the 10 or more messages you will resend if you don't delete them. It is not necessary to requote the entire list of messages. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1610	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Accessory footprints

I'm looking for some accessories and would like to plan where best to put them on my layout. Do any of you have the measurements (width, length, height) of the following - - 779 barrel loader, 751 log loader, 772 bubbling tower, 787 log loader, 755 talking station? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1611	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: coal loader parts

<<I was excited to find a fixer coal loader at the last TCA swap meet. I remembered that I had an article in an old CTT magazine about them. I had a good laugh at the $85-115 price range listed, but was not as happy when I read the warning not to buy one with parts missing. Of course mine has no clamshell, is missing the truck at the top, and came with no roofs. I checked all my parts catalogs and only found roofs availabe. Maybe Doug Peck can answer this one. Why is nobody making repro parts for this accessory? The article said there were lots of coal loaders around. Mine can't be the only one needing repair. >> Your BIG problem is the clamshell. Most other parts are available. But I wouldn't advise spending a lot of money accumulating those parts until you locate a clamshell first! I could sell MANY clamshells if I had them! From the rumor-mill: Don't get rid of it yet, though. It would not surprise me if we see a repro coal-loader, complete, available before too long!!! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1612	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: New gondola loads, and other parts

New items available for all those empty gondolas on your layout ! We have just received repro D&H/LCL silver canisters with printed lettering, just like originals. $10 per set of 5. ALSO, have the same D&H/LCL black lettering stamped on red canisters, and on black canisters (white stamping). ALSO have the C&O white logo on black canisters. ALSO have US ARMY / ROCKET FUEL black lettering on white canisters. ALL these lettered sets are $10 per set of 5. ALSO have plain unlettered canisters available in red, yellow, silver, black, green, blue, and white. These are $7.50 per set of 5. For the 24574 US AIR FORCE flatcar, we now have the complete repro load with stamped lettering: 2 red bulkheads, and 2 silver ROCKET FUEL canisters. Again, this is all printed lettering, not dry-transfers! $25 per 4-pc load. Finally, for those of you with a damaged 971 Moe & Joe unloading flatcar, we have an excellent replacement body available.......body only; no trucks, load, etc. $21.95 More and more quality items coming in regularly........will keep you posted. Visit our website also. As we expand it, we'll keep you up-to-date, as well as try to post images where appropriate. Doug We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 50-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 20+ page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1613	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: Accessory footprints

David, This would be good info for a FAQ, unfortunately most of my stuff is buried in storage, anyone else have some they can measure?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1614	From: Dennis Back	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: Accessory footprints

--David_Horn@... wrote: > > Do any of you have the measurements (width, length, > height) of the following - - 779 barrel loader, 751 > log loader, 772 > bubbling tower, 787 log loader, 755 talking station? Bubbling tower- 6 across x 5 deep x 13 h 755 Talk.Stat.- 12 across x 8 deep x 5.5 h 751 Log loader- 8 5/8 across x 11 3/4 deep x 11.5 h On the log loader...you might want to plan to have one track in FRONT of the loader and a spur track in BACK. This way, you load the logs in the front and if you have the No. 717 automatic log dump car....you can unload in the back, which replaces the logs. It's about the only accessory that replenishes itself (most other accessories you have to reload yourself). To plan your track spacing...plan for the track and spur (siding) to be about 13.5 apart (from edge to edge) and the loader in the middle. As for the Oil Drum loader...I have the Lionel 2300 (repro AF made in 1983-87) which I believe is about the same as the AF799. Its measurements are 9 across x 8.5 deep x 5 h. Hope this all helps. Dennis Back Miami, Fl.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1615	From: buzz davis	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: AF passenger cars

I have an AF PRR K5 loco #312. Which of the AF passenger cars are appropriate to this engine ??? Thanks in advance !! Buzz

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1616	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: SD50s and U25Bs

In message <36C78451.E9C4E4CA@...>, Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> writes >From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > >OK, here is another case where a particular model comes out in brass, then later >it comes out in a plastic version. Is this a good practice, or a not-so-good >one. Is it just coincidence, or what. I've wondered about this, but am not >sure what to think. Admittedly, I'd like to see a U25B, and there were >rumors/plans of one several years ago, but that is only one of many other >possibilities. Rightly or wrongly the announcement of the AM SD50/60 directly after the announcement of the Overland SD50/60 was seen as a 'spoiler' by AM. Suffice to say it didn't work and we are now presumably waiting for the brass SDs to dry up before the release of the AM plastic SD With respect to the U25B this was going to be an etched brass kit by Gilmor an British importer of American O scale - they had done the U25B in O before. I'll copy this note to Jason to see if we can tease some interest out of him. If you want a U25B kit in S I suggest you bombard Jason Dickie with Emails - Sorry Jason <G> Jdickie'telecom.com -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1617	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: Gondola loads

Good question came in from Bob Bubeck---- <<< <<Is there some obvious way to tell these repros from the originals without having the original in hand (e.g., a marking on the inside of the canisters?)? Some knowledge of plastics in the 50's vs. the present is helpful. The new and old Borden's loads, for example, are pretty easy to tell apart, but as more and more repro parts and loads become available, we will be experiencing the challenge that post war Lionel collectors have. Please do not misunderstand - having more repro parts around to make old Gilbert whole again is great (!!!), but it would be good to be able to quickly tell new from clean original. >> Yes. These repros are marked inside BG, unlike originals (and, as I recall, no PA number appears). I am pretty picky about appropriate markings on MAJOR repro parts. That's why I purposely had the Jet Engine loads marked with an R in the mold, unlike the Bordens loads that were made by someone else. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1618	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: AF passenger cars

In a message dated 2/15/99 1:39:11 PM, buzbiker@... wrote: <<I have an AF PRR K5 loco #312. Which of the AF passenger cars are appropriate to this engine ???>> Well, I guess it matters as to one's definition of "appropriate". For catalogued link era sets in which the 312 appeared, two New Haven style 650's and a 651 baggage car, all in red, where usually included. However, I am using a 315 K-5 right now to pull a string of red 652, 653, 654 heavyweights and a 718 mail pick up car. Looks appropriate to me! The K5345 set from 1953 and 54 consisted of a 316 K-5, and a 918, 952, 953, and 954, all in Tuscan. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1619	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: SD50s and U25Bs

I think in fairness to AM, they are proposing to a do widecab SD60 while the brass model was a straightcab. I think the widecab units are far more common and for I am more interested in them. cheers. cheers Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@... -----Original Message----- From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> To: ironhors@... <ironhors@...>; Jason Dickie <jdickie@...>; Jason Dickie <jdickie@...> Cc: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>; John Tomlinson <john-and-francesTomlinson@...>; Robin Thompson <robin@...>; Skip Mersereau <jwmersereau@...>; Robert Sherwood <softmoods@...>; Michael Holland <mjhtrains@...>; Art Armstrong <aarmstro@...>; Don Richards <donrich@...>; John Tomlinson <john.tomlins@...>; Chuck Smith <cesmith@...>; Walter Jopke <jopke@...>; CD Models <cdmodels@...>; Denis Fortier <capaigle@...>; Paul Yorke <yorke@...>; Chris Palormarez <ChrisPy_Joe@...>; Dave Bailey <patndave@...>; Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>; Allan Evans <alevans@...>; Tom Davis <TPDavis7@...>; Gale Hall <gale_hall@...>; Bill McClung <Theinyo22@...>; Jeff Madden <nasgdispatch@...>; Guy Davis <gdavis@...>; Peter Ervin <pjervin@...>; S-trains@onelist.com <S-trains@onelist.com> Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 2:16 PM Subject: [S-Trains] SD50s and U25Bs >In message <36C78451.E9C4E4CA@...>, Dave and Kathy Engle ><ironhors@...> writes >>From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> >> >>OK, here is another case where a particular model comes out in brass, then later >>it comes out in a plastic version. Is this a good practice, or a not-so-good >>one. Is it just coincidence, or what. I've wondered about this, but am not >>sure what to think. Admittedly, I'd like to see a U25B, and there were >>rumors/plans of one several years ago, but that is only one of many other >>possibilities. > >Rightly or wrongly the announcement of the AM SD50/60 directly after the >announcement of the Overland SD50/60 was seen as a 'spoiler' by AM. >Suffice to say it didn't work and we are now presumably waiting for the >brass SDs to dry up before the release of the AM plastic SD > >With respect to the U25B this was going to be an etched brass kit by >Gilmor an British importer of American O scale - they had done the U25B >in O before. I'll copy this note to Jason to see if we can tease some >interest out of him. > >If you want a U25B kit in S I suggest you bombard Jason Dickie with >Emails - Sorry Jason <G> > >Jdickie'telecom.com >-- >kelvin white >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1620	From: Bill Rodgers	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: 0-6-0 BOILER SHELL

HELLO, I'M LOOKING FOR A GOOD AF 21004/5 0-6-0 SWITCHER BOILER SHELL. I HAVE JUST PURCHASED AN 0-6-0 SWITCHER RUNS WELL VG TENDER, BUT THE BOILER SHELL HAS BEEN NIBBLED BY A LMOUSE. THANKS, BILL RODGERS rpc@... NASG TCA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1621	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: SD50s and U25Bs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1622	From: John Foley	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: U25-B

Message: 14 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:51:44 -0500 (EST) From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) Subject: U25-B Speaking of the GE U25-B, I have heard that there was an S sized plastic toy train that can be kitbashed into a quite respectable U25-B body. Don't remember if two have to be combined, if it has to be combined with a Flyer GP-7 body, or if it just has to be modified. It predated the ERTL loco by some years. I never saw one myself. Does anyone have more information on this? Tom Hi Tom Stan Stokrocki did a couple of these, they came out great. I'm sure he can answer your questions. SSTOKROCKI@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1623	From: John Foley	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: BL-2

Jeff Tangeman ps. What's a Bl-1, I know the GPs and a have a Lionel U25B but BL-1??? Hi Jeff Click on this to see how ugly a BL-2 really is HA! HA! I hope this works. http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/wm/wm82.jpg John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1624	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/15/1999
Subject: Re: DCC Decoders for over 1 amp application

At 04:08 PM 1/9/99 -0500, Raymond Abbott <rmanew@...> wrote: >From: > > I Would like to know if there are plans for Dcc Locomotive modules >available. > At $30 for the one amp is not bad but , $80 is to much for the higher >rating! > I rather build them myself. Ray Abbott RASG After Ray wrote this note a while back, it got me thinking & I went to look into the various options. At the time of the message a couple of us recommended the use of a "power booster". But I suspected there were other options as well. I thought I might mention a few other options based on recent experiences that might be of value to others: 1) North Coast DA102 -- this decoder is rated at 1.3A, 2.0A peak. It's one of a family of so-called "plug & play" decoders designed for Atlas & Kato HO engines. Decoder has two functions (for either directional lights or F0/F1), with an option for 3 more (F2,F3,F4) by installing 3 transistors. I installed one in a American Models RS-3 and ran it a fair bit at the Springfield, MA show -- very, very easy installation in American Models locos, and value priced at $25 at my local dealer. 2) MRC AD320 -- this decoder is rated at 2.5A. Actually designed by MRC for large scale ("G") applications, the decoder has lights plus 2 extra functions. Installed and running in a Lionel American Flyer GP-9 -- fits very nicely. And the price can't be beat -- $30. Another is awaiting installation in a Flyer Atlantic. 3) Digitrax DH150A -- this decoder is rated at 1.5A, 2.0A peak. Another of the so-called "plug & play" decoders designed for Atlas and Kato HO engines. This one has five functions (forward & reverse lights, and 3 others), and four of the functions can be special lighting effects. This one is going in my American Models Amtrak F40PH with working strobe lights -- loco is currently running fine with a N scale decoder Digitrax DN93FX (1amp, 2amp peak), but I need 1 more FX function to get the strobes alternating. Priced at $35 at my local dealer. 4) Digitrax DG380 -- this decoder is rated at 3A, 6A peak. This decoder has 8 functions, including 3 rated at 1A each (the rest at 200mA). I haven't had the right opportunity to install one of these yet -- but they are priced at $46 at the local dealer. One note for S modelers -- when installing a DCC decoder, change the lights as well (not necessary for S-Helper Service SW-9/1200). I'd recommend the Miniatronics 18-016-10 -- a 16V 30mA 2.4mm diameter bulb. These are about 85 cents each, and draw substantially less current that typical bulbs in use in American Flyer or American Models items. Keep in mind that the current draw of the lights figure into the total current draw supported by the decoder. So reducing the light draw leaves more for the motor. Or in the case of my F40PH leaves room for the 6 lights I installed. It turns out that in S we're in pretty good shape without have to go up to the real pricey decoders if we exercise a little care. Look for more details on all these installations in the next version of "Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge". Hope this helpful... Michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Greene North Grafton, MA 01536 NMRA Life Member #5433 Home e'mail: mgreene@... Past Chair, NMRA DCC Working Group Member, NTRAK, NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, TCA, The 470 Railroad Club For "Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge": http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cedarlane/nmradcc-info.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1625	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Message: 7 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:39:34 -0500 From: buzz davis <buzbiker@...> Subject: AF passenger cars I have an AF PRR K5 loco #312. Which of the AF passenger cars are appropriate to this engine ??? Thanks in advance !! Buzz I'm not sure what you mean by "appropriate" but nothing beats the heavyweights. My 312 pulls four - a 653, two 652's and a 654. They are wonderful, look great when lit and I've had them since I was a wee lad. There's my prejudice for the day!!! The only way of catching a train I have ever discovered is to miss the train before. G.K. Chesterton Mac

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1626	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: footprints

Thanks, Dennis. Your information was just what I was looking for.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1627	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Diesel Roar

What does this sound like? When I asked about Air Chime "Whistle" someone said it's like the "uuurrnk" sound of a modern ambulance - - and they were right. Was wondering about Diesel Roar.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1628	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Digest Number 139

buzz davis <buzbiker@...> says, >I have an AF PRR K5 loco #312. Which of the AF passenger cars are >appropriate to this engine ??? >Thanks in advance !! My original 312 set which I purchased new, came with green New Haven passenger cars. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1629	From: Allen, Douglass H NWO	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 139, 0-6-0 BOILER SHELL

GOOD LUCK FINDING AN 0-6-0 BOILER SHELL. WHEN YOU GIVE UP (I MEAN IF) DROP ME A NOTE; I'VE HAD SOME SUCCESS REPAIRING THEM. DOUG ALLEN. douglass.h.allen @... SINCE THE E-MAIL IS ONLY GOOD FOR TWO MORE WEEKS, 608-271-4872. -----Original Message----- From: S-Trains@onelist.com [mailto:S-Trains@onelist.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 1999 4:11 AM To: S-Trains@onelist.com Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 139 To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm There are 16 messages in this issue. Topics in today's digest: 1. Digest Number 138 From: "Charles L. Day" <DayOne@...> 2. Accessory footprints From: David_Horn@... 3. Re: coal loader parts From: PortLines@... 4. Re: New gondola loads, and other parts From: PortLines@... 5. Re: Accessory footprints From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> 6. Re: Accessory footprints From: Dennis Back <backden@...> 7. AF passenger cars From: buzz davis <buzbiker@...> 8. SD50s and U25Bs From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> 9. Re: Gondola loads From: PortLines@... 10. Re: AF passenger cars From: RBubeck327@... 11. Re: SD50s and U25Bs From: "Alex Binkley" <alex.binkley@...> 12. 0-6-0 BOILER SHELL From: "Bill Rodgers" <rpc@...> 13. Re: SD50s and U25Bs From: TPDavis7@... 14. U25-B From: John Foley <foley164@...> 15. BL-2 From: John Foley <foley164@...> 16. Re: DCC Decoders for over 1 amp application From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 1 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 05:46:13 -0500 From: "Charles L. Day" <DayOne@...> Subject: Digest Number 138 Jim Hamlin says, >Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:20:30 -0600 > From: "Jim Hamlin" <jlhamlin@...> >Subject: Re: Digest Number 137 > >How do I post a question to this list? Thanks -- Jim Hamlin >-----Original Message----- >From: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> >To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> >Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 3:07 AM >Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 137 JIm, your posting worked! Now when your reply or forward or whatever you are doing, use your page down key (hopefully you realize those keys function) to scoll below your visible screen and delete the 10 or more messages you will resend if you don't delete them. It is not necessary to requote the entire list of messages. charles day ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:31:18 -0500 From: David_Horn@... Subject: Accessory footprints I'm looking for some accessories and would like to plan where best to put them on my layout. Do any of you have the measurements (width, length, height) of the following - - 779 barrel loader, 751 log loader, 772 bubbling tower, 787 log loader, 755 talking station? Thanks. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:57:01 EST From: PortLines@... Subject: Re: coal loader parts <<I was excited to find a fixer coal loader at the last TCA swap meet. I remembered that I had an article in an old CTT magazine about them. I had a good laugh at the $85-115 price range listed, but was not as happy when I read the warning not to buy one with parts missing. Of course mine has no clamshell, is missing the truck at the top, and came with no roofs. I checked all my parts catalogs and only found roofs availabe. Maybe Doug Peck can answer this one. Why is nobody making repro parts for this accessory? The article said there were lots of coal loaders around. Mine can't be the only one needing repair. >> Your BIG problem is the clamshell. Most other parts are available. But I wouldn't advise spending a lot of money accumulating those parts until you locate a clamshell first! I could sell MANY clamshells if I had them! From the rumor-mill: Don't get rid of it yet, though. It would not surprise me if we see a repro coal-loader, complete, available before too long!!! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 09:57:05 EST From: PortLines@... Subject: Re: New gondola loads, and other parts New items available for all those empty gondolas on your layout ! We have just received repro D&H/LCL silver canisters with printed lettering, just like originals. $10 per set of 5. ALSO, have the same D&H/LCL black lettering stamped on red canisters, and on black canisters (white stamping). ALSO have the C&O white logo on black canisters. ALSO have US ARMY / ROCKET FUEL black lettering on white canisters. ALL these lettered sets are $10 per set of 5. ALSO have plain unlettered canisters available in red, yellow, silver, black, green, blue, and white. These are $7.50 per set of 5. For the 24574 US AIR FORCE flatcar, we now have the complete repro load with stamped lettering: 2 red bulkheads, and 2 silver ROCKET FUEL canisters. Again, this is all printed lettering, not dry-transfers! $25 per 4-pc load. Finally, for those of you with a damaged 971 Moe & Joe unloading flatcar, we have an excellent replacement body available.......body only; no trucks, load, etc. $21.95 More and more quality items coming in regularly........will keep you posted. Visit our website also. As we expand it, we'll keep you up-to-date, as well as try to post images where appropriate. Doug We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 50-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 20+ page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:28:49 -0800 From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Re: Accessory footprints David, This would be good info for a FAQ, unfortunately most of my stuff is buried in storage, anyone else have some they can measure?? S' David D. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 08:43:15 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Back <backden@...> Subject: Re: Accessory footprints --David_Horn@... wrote: > > Do any of you have the measurements (width, length, > height) of the following - - 779 barrel loader, 751 > log loader, 772 > bubbling tower, 787 log loader, 755 talking station? Bubbling tower- 6 across x 5 deep x 13 h 755 Talk.Stat.- 12 across x 8 deep x 5.5 h 751 Log loader- 8 5/8 across x 11 3/4 deep x 11.5 h On the log loader...you might want to plan to have one track in FRONT of the loader and a spur track in BACK. This way, you load the logs in the front and if you have the No. 717 automatic log dump car....you can unload in the back, which replaces the logs. It's about the only accessory that replenishes itself (most other accessories you have to reload yourself). To plan your track spacing...plan for the track and spur (siding) to be about 13.5 apart (from edge to edge) and the loader in the middle. As for the Oil Drum loader...I have the Lionel 2300 (repro AF made in 1983-87) which I believe is about the same as the AF799. Its measurements are 9 across x 8.5 deep x 5 h. Hope this all helps. Dennis Back Miami, Fl. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 13:39:34 -0500 From: buzz davis <buzbiker@...> Subject: AF passenger cars I have an AF PRR K5 loco #312. Which of the AF passenger cars are appropriate to this engine ??? Thanks in advance !! Buzz ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:14:42 +0000 From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> Subject: SD50s and U25Bs In message <36C78451.E9C4E4CA@...>, Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> writes >From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > >OK, here is another case where a particular model comes out in brass, then later >it comes out in a plastic version. Is this a good practice, or a not-so-good >one. Is it just coincidence, or what. I've wondered about this, but am not >sure what to think. Admittedly, I'd like to see a U25B, and there were >rumors/plans of one several years ago, but that is only one of many other >possibilities. Rightly or wrongly the announcement of the AM SD50/60 directly after the announcement of the Overland SD50/60 was seen as a 'spoiler' by AM. Suffice to say it didn't work and we are now presumably waiting for the brass SDs to dry up before the release of the AM plastic SD With respect to the U25B this was going to be an etched brass kit by Gilmor an British importer of American O scale - they had done the U25B in O before. I'll copy this note to Jason to see if we can tease some interest out of him. If you want a U25B kit in S I suggest you bombard Jason Dickie with Emails - Sorry Jason <G> Jdickie'telecom.com -- kelvin white ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:57:48 EST From: PortLines@... Subject: Re: Gondola loads Good question came in from Bob Bubeck---- <<< <<Is there some obvious way to tell these repros from the originals without having the original in hand (e.g., a marking on the inside of the canisters?)? Some knowledge of plastics in the 50's vs. the present is helpful. The new and old Borden's loads, for example, are pretty easy to tell apart, but as more and more repro parts and loads become available, we will be experiencing the challenge that post war Lionel collectors have. Please do not misunderstand - having more repro parts around to make old Gilbert whole again is great (!!!), but it would be good to be able to quickly tell new from clean original. >> Yes. These repros are marked inside BG, unlike originals (and, as I recall, no PA number appears). I am pretty picky about appropriate markings on MAJOR repro parts. That's why I purposely had the Jet Engine loads marked with an R in the mold, unlike the Bordens loads that were made by someone else. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 15:21:35 EST From: RBubeck327@... Subject: Re: AF passenger cars In a message dated 2/15/99 1:39:11 PM, buzbiker@... wrote: <<I have an AF PRR K5 loco #312. Which of the AF passenger cars are appropriate to this engine ???>> Well, I guess it matters as to one's definition of "appropriate". For catalogued link era sets in which the 312 appeared, two New Haven style 650's and a 651 baggage car, all in red, where usually included. However, I am using a 315 K-5 right now to pull a string of red 652, 653, 654 heavyweights and a 718 mail pick up car. Looks appropriate to me! The K5345 set from 1953 and 54 consisted of a 316 K-5, and a 918, 952, 953, and 954, all in Tuscan. RB ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 14:42:48 -0500 From: "Alex Binkley" <alex.binkley@...> Subject: Re: SD50s and U25Bs I think in fairness to AM, they are proposing to a do widecab SD60 while the brass model was a straightcab. I think the widecab units are far more common and for I am more interested in them. cheers. cheers Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@... -----Original Message----- From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> To: ironhors@... <ironhors@...>; Jason Dickie <jdickie@...>; Jason Dickie <jdickie@...> Cc: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...>; John Tomlinson <john-and-francesTomlinson@...>; Robin Thompson <robin@...>; Skip Mersereau <jwmersereau@...>; Robert Sherwood <softmoods@...>; Michael Holland <mjhtrains@...>; Art Armstrong <aarmstro@...>; Don Richards <donrich@...>; John Tomlinson <john.tomlins@...>; Chuck Smith <cesmith@...>; Walter Jopke <jopke@...>; CD Models <cdmodels@...>; Denis Fortier <capaigle@...>; Paul Yorke <yorke@...>; Chris Palormarez <ChrisPy_Joe@...>; Dave Bailey <patndave@...>; Richard Snook <richard.snook@...>; Allan Evans <alevans@...>; Tom Davis <TPDavis7@...>; Gale Hall <gale_hall@...>; Bill McClung <Theinyo22@...>; Jeff Madden <nasgdispatch@...>; Guy Davis <gdavis@...>; Peter Ervin <pjervin@...>; S-trains@onelist.com <S-trains@onelist.com> Date: Monday, February 15, 1999 2:16 PM Subject: [S-Trains] SD50s and U25Bs >In message <36C78451.E9C4E4CA@...>, Dave and Kathy Engle ><ironhors@...> writes >>From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> >> >>OK, here is another case where a particular model comes out in brass, then later >>it comes out in a plastic version. Is this a good practice, or a not-so-good >>one. Is it just coincidence, or what. I've wondered about this, but am not >>sure what to think. Admittedly, I'd like to see a U25B, and there were >>rumors/plans of one several years ago, but that is only one of many other >>possibilities. > >Rightly or wrongly the announcement of the AM SD50/60 directly after the >announcement of the Overland SD50/60 was seen as a 'spoiler' by AM. >Suffice to say it didn't work and we are now presumably waiting for the >brass SDs to dry up before the release of the AM plastic SD > >With respect to the U25B this was going to be an etched brass kit by >Gilmor an British importer of American O scale - they had done the U25B >in O before. I'll copy this note to Jason to see if we can tease some >interest out of him. > >If you want a U25B kit in S I suggest you bombard Jason Dickie with >Emails - Sorry Jason <G> > >Jdickie'telecom.com >-- >kelvin white > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 17:26:09 -0500 From: "Bill Rodgers" <rpc@...> Subject: 0-6-0 BOILER SHELL HELLO, I'M LOOKING FOR A GOOD AF 21004/5 0-6-0 SWITCHER BOILER SHELL. I HAVE JUST PURCHASED AN 0-6-0 SWITCHER RUNS WELL VG TENDER, BUT THE BOILER SHELL HAS BEEN NIBBLED BY A LMOUSE. THANKS, BILL RODGERS rpc@... NASG TCA ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:46:46 EST From: TPDavis7@... Subject: Re: SD50s and U25Bs ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:25:10 -0800 From: John Foley <foley164@...> Subject: U25-B Message: 14 Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:51:44 -0500 (EST) From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) Subject: U25-B Speaking of the GE U25-B, I have heard that there was an S sized plastic toy train that can be kitbashed into a quite respectable U25-B body. Don't remember if two have to be combined, if it has to be combined with a Flyer GP-7 body, or if it just has to be modified. It predated the ERTL loco by some years. I never saw one myself. Does anyone have more information on this? Tom Hi Tom Stan Stokrocki did a couple of these, they came out great. I'm sure he can answer your questions. SSTOKROCKI@... ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 20:44:54 -0800 From: John Foley <foley164@...> Subject: BL-2 Jeff Tangeman ps. What's a Bl-1, I know the GPs and a have a Lionel U25B but BL-1??? Hi Jeff Click on this to see how ugly a BL-2 really is HA! HA! I hope this works. http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/wm/wm82.jpg John ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 21:14:40 -0500 From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> Subject: Re: DCC Decoders for over 1 amp application At 04:08 PM 1/9/99 -0500, Raymond Abbott <rmanew@...> wrote: >From: > > I Would like to know if there are plans for Dcc Locomotive modules >available. > At $30 for the one amp is not bad but , $80 is to much for the higher >rating! > I rather build them myself. Ray Abbott RASG After Ray wrote this note a while back, it got me thinking & I went to look into the various options. At the time of the message a couple of us recommended the use of a "power booster". But I suspected there were other options as well. I thought I might mention a few other options based on recent experiences that might be of value to others: 1) North Coast DA102 -- this decoder is rated at 1.3A, 2.0A peak. It's one of a family of so-called "plug & play" decoders designed for Atlas & Kato HO engines. Decoder has two functions (for either directional lights or F0/F1), with an option for 3 more (F2,F3,F4) by installing 3 transistors. I installed one in a American Models RS-3 and ran it a fair bit at the Springfield, MA show -- very, very easy installation in American Models locos, and value priced at $25 at my local dealer. 2) MRC AD320 -- this decoder is rated at 2.5A. Actually designed by MRC for large scale ("G") applications, the decoder has lights plus 2 extra functions. Installed and running in a Lionel American Flyer GP-9 -- fits very nicely. And the price can't be beat -- $30. Another is awaiting installation in a Flyer Atlantic. 3) Digitrax DH150A -- this decoder is rated at 1.5A, 2.0A peak. Another of the so-called "plug & play" decoders designed for Atlas and Kato HO engines. This one has five functions (forward & reverse lights, and 3 others), and four of the functions can be special lighting effects. This one is going in my American Models Amtrak F40PH with working strobe lights -- loco is currently running fine with a N scale decoder Digitrax DN93FX (1amp, 2amp peak), but I need 1 more FX function to get the strobes alternating. Priced at $35 at my local dealer. 4) Digitrax DG380 -- this decoder is rated at 3A, 6A peak. This decoder has 8 functions, including 3 rated at 1A each (the rest at 200mA). I haven't had the right opportunity to install one of these yet -- but they are priced at $46 at the local dealer. One note for S modelers -- when installing a DCC decoder, change the lights as well (not necessary for S-Helper Service SW-9/1200). I'd recommend the Miniatronics 18-016-10 -- a 16V 30mA 2.4mm diameter bulb. These are about 85 cents each, and draw substantially less current that typical bulbs in use in American Flyer or American Models items. Keep in mind that the current draw of the lights figure into the total current draw supported by the decoder. So reducing the light draw leaves more for the motor. Or in the case of my F40PH leaves room for the 6 lights I installed. It turns out that in S we're in pretty good shape without have to go up to the real pricey decoders if we exercise a little care. Look for more details on all these installations in the next version of "Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge". Hope this helpful... Michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Greene North Grafton, MA 01536 NMRA Life Member #5433 Home e'mail: mgreene@... Past Chair, NMRA DCC Working Group Member, NTRAK, NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, TCA, The 470 Railroad Club For "Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge": http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cedarlane/nmradcc-info.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1630	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: Diesel Roar

In a message dated 2/16/99 8:50:49 AM, David_Horn@... wrote: <<What does this sound like? When I asked about Air Chime "Whistle" someone said it's like the "uuurrnk" sound of a modern ambulance - - and they were right. Was wondering about Diesel Roar.>> Dave, The diesel roar has a low pitched quick whaa-whaa-whaa-whaa.........sound. Given the technology available in the 50's it is not too bad a facsimile, particularly at idle in neutral with power up. I believe that the roar in the PA's and PB's sounds better and deeper than in the GP-7. I suspect this is due to the body of the Alcos being larger and being vented around the sheet metal chassis. It is fun to have operating in some of one's diesels, although you will eventually turn it off. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1631	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: Passenger Cars

Buz, according to my database, the 312 came as follows. 1946 & 1947 Outfit #4609 312 Steam Loco - 651 Red Baggage - 2x 650 Red Coach 1951 & 1952 Outfit #5114 312 Steam loco - 718 Red Mail Car - 2x 650 Red Coach 1948 & 1949 312AC Steam loco - 651 Red Baggage - 2x 650 Red Coach In short the 312 and 312AC always came from the factory with the red new haven style coaches. Any exceptions to this are sets put together by the selling stores, or by individual pieces being bought by the consumer to make a different set.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1632	From: I/R@xxxxxxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Daniel 832-7428 at 7:24

>Chuck: >The justification that an AF 336 could negotiate Flyer track is open to >discussion. I have always understood that this engine had a problem in >the curves and, as such, AF suggested placing a piece of half-straight >between each curved section in an attempt to "ease" the transition. >What experiences have you AF Northern owners/operators had with this >engine? > >Truly, >Bruce > I have a 336 that has never seen AF track, but it does fine on American Models flex track at 24" radius and AM turnouts. -Daniel

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1633	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: Daniel 832-7428 at 7:24

When I was a kid, and my 336 was new, I used to run it at breakneck speed over standard AF track with no straight sections installed as "buffers." Now that I've got it running again after all these years, it seems less stable to me. Maybe my benchwork isn't as good as what my dad built for me back then. Also, I had NO turnouts in the layout of my youth. In any case, these days the ol' 336 sometimes balks when backing through turnouts; the rear truck sometimes de-rails. But it goes okay over the curves. I keep the speed down too. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1634	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: 336 type engines & AF curves

Both my 336 and K335 will run on flyer track. I did have to regauge the 336, but it had a rough childhood (the kid that owned this set even burnt a hole in the caboose window w/ a cigarette). They do overhang considerably, and will spread switches if they're out of gauge. I ran one on a public demo layout without incident for a day. (Well, no more incidents than any other of the trains!). They do look much better on wider radius track though! Until I fixed the gauging problem on my 336, I didn't think it did well at all (this was back in my High School days), I had given up on it until I picked up the K335 (You're gonna hate this, I bought it in Orange County [California] in a small hobby shop that had a little flyer, paid $35 for it!--but it was around 1969) and it ran great. They can be hard on track, especially if you have trestle sets that only support the track at the joints. These locos are HEAVY and still mostly put all their weight on the outside four drive wheels. I would not recommend long term storage on their wheels if you have pul mor tires, I think you'd end up with flat spots! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1635	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: 336 type engines & AF curves

I enjoyed reading about your 336 David. Can you tell me how to "gauge" the wheels? I just did what's probably the equivalent with a switcher, and now it runs really nicely. But, I'm not sure I did it "properly." Prior to adjusting the gauge of the drivers, it would cause the frog on one of my AF turnouts to move--causing a derailment. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-. -

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1636	From: John Foley	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Closed frog Switches [turnouts]

Hi Folks The other day Ted Larson send me an email talking about closed frog switches. This reminded me that at the TCA meet at York Pa. I spoke about this with Steve of Ross Custom Switches of Ct. I told Steve that there is a demand for code 125 & 148 Closed frog switches. Steve was interested. I gave steve a couple of our NASG track gauges. Steve also said they where working on a design of their own. Today I spoke with Steve again. He said that sometime this summer they are seriously thinking about coming out with a line of S closed frog switches. They are working on a website now, when it is up and running let them know what you think. When I get the address for the website I will post it. If one of you folk's get it first please post it. Steve is very busy now so please wait for website before you contact them. John Foley Eastern VP NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1637	From: Bill Rodgers	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: 0-6-0 BOILER/TOM JARCO

YES IT SURE LOOKS LIKE A LMOUSE NIBBLED ON MY BOILER SHELL, I THOUGHT IF I CAN'T FIND A NEW SHELL, I'LL REPAIR THE ONE I HAVE, ALTHOUGH THE NIBBLED PART ON BOILER IS ON THE FRONT EDGE ONLY ONE SIDE I MAY JUST LEAVE IT ALONE FOR THE CHARACTER. I MODEL SCALE MAINLY BUT I'VE NEVER HAD AN AF 0-6-0 (I WANTED A REX 0-6-0 WHEN THEY FIRST CAME OUT, ABOUT $85.00 BUT COULD'NT AFFORD IT,FINALLY PAID $220.00 FOR A KIT FROM SCENERY UNLIMITED ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO) TO ADD TO MY FLYER COLLECTION. I BOUGHT MY 0-6-0 AT A TRAIN SHOW LAST WEEKEND, 3 BOXES OF FLYER THE SWITCHER WAS IN THE MIX. ALSO OF NOTE THERE WAS A 630 CABOOSE ALSO NIBBLED ON ALONG THE TOP EDGE LIKE A NOTCH NIBBLED INTO THE PLASTIC. REGARDS, BILL RODGERS rpc@... NASG TCA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1638	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: MPSM News and SD50s?

Dear Dave, SW-9's first came out in brass as a brass kit (Locomotive Workshop) in the 70's, a imported brass model (Oriental) in the 80's and our plastio RTR gem in the 90's. I do not think that any of the previous models influenced our sales, then again it was at least 10 years between our model and the Oriental. Dave and Kathy Engle wrote: > > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > > OK, here is another case where a particular model comes out in brass, then later > it comes out in a plastic version. Is this a good practice, or a not-so-good > one. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1639	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: 336 type engines & AF curves

Dear David, When you regaged your 336, what back to back or other standard did you gage it too? David Dewey wrote: > > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Both my 336 and K335 will run on flyer track. I did have to regauge the 336,...... > S' > David D. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1640	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: SW9s in S

Hey Don, You forgot the Railmaster white metal kit of the 90s. That's almost a switcher a decade! -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Don Thompson wrote: > Dear Dave, > SW-9's first came out in brass as a brass kit (Locomotive Workshop) in > the 70's, a imported brass model (Oriental) in the 80's and our plastio > RTR gem in the 90's. I do not think that any of the previous models > influenced our sales, then again it was at least 10 years between our > model and the Oriental. > >In response to what Dave and Kathy Engle wrote: > > > > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > > > > OK, here is another case where a particular model comes out in brass, then later > > it comes out in a plastic version. Is this a good practice, or a not-so-good > > one. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1641	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: Re: 336 type engines & AF curves

Well, I'm getting requests on how I regauged my 336 and to what dimensions. It's so long ago, I'm not certain if it was loose driver tires, or if I actually moved the whole wheel set. Anyway, the dimensions I used were whatever the K335 was, as it ran well! Unfortunately, both locomotives are in a box at the back and bottom of the closet full of AF stuff! Anyone have a good running one they can measure and share the dimensions with us? Actually, a compilation of measurements will probably better establish the dimension, since none of seems to have the Factory specs on this! I suspect there are more mis-gauged locos out there than is known! Thanks in advance, and thanks all for having patience with me! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1642	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 2/16/1999
Subject: DigNumber 139 BL-2

John: good picture - seems to work FINE! thanks for sharing photo. > how ugly a BL-2 really is HA! HA! I hope this works. > http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/wm/wm82.jpg > John ----------------------- Curt Johnson ___-_____________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1643	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: Re: DigNumber 139 BL-2

All of the things that were wrong with the BL-2 were corrected when the GP-7 was introduced. The Geep was/is one of the best designs ever. 'S', Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1644	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: gauging

Barker recommends about 18.75mm from back to back. I have a 336 that negotiates an AF oval with no straights between the turns just fine, and switches too. I'm at work so can't measure the gauging on it, but generally I've found between 18mm and 19mm work best. PS This 336 is a moose, and fast. Can't run it full speed even around larger oval at full speed without at least 12-15 cars behind it. ACG really built these nicely.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1645	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: Re: DigNumber 139 BL-2

Yes, It's ugly, but it is DIFFERENT. To those of us who don't know a dynamic brake from a dynamo, all the GP's look similiar. I'd love to have something this unique. Daniel >From: Curtis Johnson <seedybear@...> > >John: > good picture - seems to work FINE! > thanks for sharing photo. > >> how ugly a BL-2 really is HA! HA! I hope this works. > >> http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/wm/wm82.jpg > >> John > >----------------------- Curt Johnson ___-_____________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1646	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: Re: DigNumber 139 BL-2

Whoa! I wouldn't call the BL1/2 wrong. It was merely a proof of concept. A lot of its ugliness comes from sharing the truss-body frame with the F3/F7. Once the concept was proven (to the satisfaction of GM officials), production space was given to the GP7 to manufacturer a new type of frame for a new locomotive. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle TPDavis7@... wrote: > > From: TPDavis7@... > > All of the things that were wrong with the BL-2 were corrected when the GP-7 > was introduced. The Geep was/is one of the best designs ever. 'S', Tom > Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1647	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: Re: gauging--Thanks! (I think?)

What's this "18.75mm" stuff?? This hear's 3/16" Railroadin' !<BG> Thanks fer the dimensions, now somewhere in High School, I know'd they don give us a formular fer makin' sence, er inchers, out them figgurs. (Well, what do you expect, I don't have a metric caliper!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1648	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: Re: gauging--Thanks! (I think?)

OK, here's the scoop on metric. Divide the mm measurement by 25.4 to get inches. Multiply by 16 to get the 1/16ths of an inch. It is not too hard with a calculator and they are built in to most computers. I keep one on my work bench and in my travelling tool kit. Another handy tool is a ruler with inches on one side and mm or cm on the other. I have not seen one with scale markings as well - at least in coordinated placement. Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: David Dewey <djdewey@...> To: David_Horn@... <David_Horn@...>; S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Wednesday, February 17, 1999 11:38 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: gauging--Thanks! (I think?) >From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > >What's this "18.75mm" stuff?? This hear's 3/16" Railroadin' !<BG> >Thanks fer the dimensions, now somewhere in High School, I know'd they don >give us a formular fer makin' sence, er inchers, out them figgurs. >(Well, what do you expect, I don't have a metric caliper!) >S' >David D. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1649	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Someone wrote: ###################################################### Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:07:24 EST From: Trains16@... Subject: Re: Passenger Cars Buz, according to my database, the 312 came as follows. 1946 & 1947 Outfit #4609 312 Steam Loco - 651 Red Baggage - 2x 650 Red Coach 1951 & 1952 Outfit #5114 312 Steam loco - 718 Red Mail Car - 2x 650 Red Coach 1948 & 1949 312AC Steam loco - 651 Red Baggage - 2x 650 Red Coach In short the 312 and 312AC always came from the factory with the red new haven style coaches. Any exceptions to this are sets put together by the selling stores, or by individual pieces being bought by the consumer to make a different set. ###################################################### My very first AF was a 312 SIT. It came with a green baggage car and 2 green NH coaches. As my parents purchased this train from oour neighbors two boys (they were moving to HO), I cannot vouch that it was purchased as a set and do not have the set box. However, I do have the loco wrapper and the car boxes to this very day. BTW, when this train set was purchased it also included a green operating baggage car, the 771 Baggage Loader, a 561 Whistling Billboard, some track, and a pair of 720 (the ones with the slide switch) switches. These latter items may have been after-set purchases. However, I really do believe that the loco and cars were not purchased separately. Bob Tufts is currently doing rather exhaustive work on AF sets, both catalogued and uncatalogued, and I will ask him about thie 312 set with green cars. I also will check the All Aboard listing of catalogued and uncatalogued sets this evening. Joe == Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ############## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1650	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/17/1999
Subject: Re: SW-1

Dear Dave, Funny you should mention a SW-1. We now have S scale model drawings for the phase Ib SW-1. With the SW-9s about sold out, instead of re-running these, we thought that a SW-1 might be a better choice. Of course most of the drive parts are the same, but we would still need to tool a new body and chassis, change the slide for the front of the cab so that it has the arch windows, make a new tool for the front windows (glass). A few other parts would need to be modified. Once our engineer quotes us a price for the additonal tooling and the modifications costs (as well as the unit cost) we can announce this project. Dave Engle wrote: Excellent: Hopefully these prior conflicts are superceded by our common sense. I wonder if anyone remembers the Scale-Craft SW-1, as a possible precedent for something newer. Don Thompson wrote: > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> > > Dear Dave, > SW-9's first came out in brass as a brass kit (Locomotive Workshop) in > the 70's, a imported brass model (Oriental) in the 80's and our plastio > RTR gem in the 90's. I do not think that any of the previous models > influenced our sales, then again it was at least 10 years between our > model and the Oriental. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1651	From: Donald E. Munsey, Jr.	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: BL-2 daydreaming

Folks (I've got my Class B-C fire extinguiher ready to put out the flames), Those of you who are free-lance, narrow-minded types, not too hung up on exact dimensions (metric or otherwise) and are looking for something different in the what-if category, here goes!! I seem to recall a BL2 produced in HO several years ago, (maybe still in production??). What about a kit bash into Sn# a la the WP&Y RRs modern diesels? OK - now - READY - FIRE - AIM !!! -- Big Swede (aka Don Munsey, Jr.) UpperRightCorner of Louisiana StoryTeller, CopperSmith, S/Sn3 ModelRailroader & Bonsai grasshopper. A Recovering Forester now teaching High School Geometry!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1652	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: SW-1

>> With the SW-9s about sold out, instead of re-running these, we thought that a SW-1 might be a better choice. Of course most of the drive parts are the same, but we would still need to tool a new body and chassis, change the slide for the front of the cab so that it has the arch windows, make a new tool for the front windows<< "Change" the slide??? as in modify it so you can't make SW-9's any more? I hope not. Speaking only for myself, you have NOT filled the market for SW-9's (you haven't run GN yet). Waiting a year before a re-run, and doing something different before then (SW-1) is a wonderful idea. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/pictureTaking/index.shtml ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1653	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: BL-2 daydreaming

Interesting idea -- and Life-Like Proto2000 HO BL-2 can still be had for around $19.95 I think... But I'd still like to have a full-size (S) couple as well... Michael At 04:25 AM 2/18/99 -0600, you wrote: >From: "Donald E. Munsey, Jr." <dmunsey@...> > >Folks (I've got my Class B-C fire extinguiher ready to put out the >flames), > >Those of you who are free-lance, narrow-minded types, not too hung up on >exact dimensions (metric or otherwise) and are looking for something >different in the what-if category, here goes!! > I seem to recall a BL2 produced in HO several years ago, (maybe >still in production??). What about a kit bash into Sn# a la the WP&Y >RRs modern diesels? > >OK - now - READY - FIRE - AIM !!! >-- >Big Swede (aka Don Munsey, Jr.) UpperRightCorner of Louisiana >StoryTeller, CopperSmith, S/Sn3 ModelRailroader & Bonsai grasshopper. >A Recovering Forester now teaching High School Geometry!! >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1654	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Digest Number 141

Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> says, >Someone wrote: >###################################################### > Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 10:07:24 EST > From: Trains16@... >Subject: Re: Passenger Cars > >Buz, according to my database, the 312 came as follows. > >1946 & 1947 Outfit #4609 >312 Steam Loco - 651 Red Baggage - 2x 650 Red Coach > >1951 & 1952 Outfit #5114 >312 Steam loco - 718 Red Mail Car - 2x 650 Red Coach > >1948 & 1949 >312AC Steam loco - 651 Red Baggage - 2x 650 Red Coach > >In short the 312 and 312AC always came from the factory with the red >new haven >style coaches. Any exceptions to this are sets put together by the >selling >stores, or by individual pieces being bought by the consumer to make a >different set. >###################################################### > >My very first AF was a 312 SIT. It came with a green baggage car and >2 green NH coaches. As my parents purchased this train from oour >neighbors two boys (they were moving to HO), I cannot vouch that it >was purchased as a set and do not have the set box. However, I do >have the loco wrapper and the car boxes to this very day. BTW, when >this train set was purchased it also included a green operating >baggage car, the 771 Baggage Loader, a 561 Whistling Billboard, some >track, and a pair of 720 (the ones with the slide switch) switches. >These latter items may have been after-set purchases. However, I >really do believe that the loco and cars were not purchased separately. >Bob Tufts is currently doing rather exhaustive work on AF sets, both >catalogued and uncatalogued, and I will ask him about thie 312 set >with green cars. I also will check the All Aboard listing of >catalogued and uncatalogued sets this evening. >== >Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 The only set reference I have (circa 1973) also says the 312 was packed with R coach & baggage, including the mail pickup car in the 50's. However, I purchased my first AF set, 312 with G new havens, sealed in the carton, and carried it home, seven blocks, in a very rare snowstorm only to find there was not a transformer to run the train! I had to deliver papers for three more months to save $9.95 plus 2% sales tax to buy the transformer before I could run the beauty around the oval. The grouchy woman (who hated kids especially paper carriers from the newspaper next door) at the Western Auto store did not care that the transformer was not included. In the summer, she would set her "pop" (soda) machine outside to keep us from having to come inside her store! Even when you wanted to buy something from her, she was miserable if you were a kid! She believed kids should not be seen or heard! No doubt the G was to be packed with the 300, 301 and the R with the 312. However, finished goods production did not always mesh properly in the packing department and if there were G's sitting around without shipping orders and R's were not ready, I am sure the G's got placed in the 312 sets in order to get them out the door rather than waiting several days or weeks for the R's to be ready. My reason for this logic and source; the man who ran the Lionel warehouse from 1960 to close: Sets were the primary sale, not open stock. Overages were not great, but when a set was packed there might be a few cars (usually fewer than two dozen of the cars scheduled in that set) left over. When packing the next set, if the car was comparable in price, they would use previous overages to complete sets. In any given run of a set, which would be thousands of sets, there could be a dozen or so sets ship with cars not catalogued for that set. Not a rarity, just filling orders to get them out the door. Dealers and consumers did not "fuss" then the way consumers seem to today. What was in the set was the way it sold and no one worried if the car was $3.95 rather than $4.25, had a loose hand rail or whether the set was "as catalogued" by number or color. In case you have not begun worrying yet, also, remember the year 1000 was the beginning of the dark ages, beware of the year 2000! (-: charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1655	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: BL-2

My recollection is that BL-2's were missing a couple of things required for Multiple Unit service. I vaguely remember a notice in MR when the N and HO models were released a few years back. There were no electrical connections as I recall. There was also something not quite right about the frame that made it incapable or unsafe when transferring drawing power from a loco hooked to the front. Does anyone remember the details? For my two cents, I liked the BL-2. With a small layout, I have little need for MU locos and my personal preferences inhibit diesels anyway. Since I paint most of my engines in my own scheme, it doesn't matter if the manufacturer omits one or two. Great ZOT itS, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1656	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: bulkhead-flat loads

Can anyone confirm that the SHS bulkhead-flat loads will fit Flyer cars? Also, does anyone have an e-mail address for Schreiner Scale Models? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1657	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 141

In a message dated 2/18/99 10:12:30 AM, DayOne@... wrote: <<No doubt the G was to be packed with the 300, 301 and the R with the 312. However, finished goods production did not always mesh properly in the packing department and if there were G's sitting around without shipping orders and R's were not ready, I am sure the G's got placed in the 312 sets in order to get them out the door rather than waiting several days or weeks for the R's to be ready. >> There are plenty of documented cases in which red New Havens were swapped for green and vice-versa. See Greenberg AF, Vol. 3. The alternate case is the red rather than green cars being packed in with sets with the New Haven style 290 and 295 Pacifics. They were making toys, not collectibles. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1658	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: Diesel Roar

David H, The Roar units seem to vary. The first one I heard in my house was in a nearly new NH PA AA set. It actually sounded like an Alco, the off-beat RumbA rumbA that they're famous for having. Note that it didn't sound anything like a GM diesel! The next one I heard sounded more like static on the radio! Don't know why or what, but there are variations! I think the diesels need *something* to make them more interesting while running, after all, most of the steamers have Choo-choo! A sound unit with volume adjustment would be loverly! Especially one that doesn't cost two arms and a leg, or a State of Maine car. I know with DCC you can get all this stuff, but I want something I can put in my dummy units without altering anything else (including my pocketbook!<G>). The sounds need to be specific to the real loco's manufacturer too--at least that would make it far more interesting! Hmm, a bell at slow speeds would be nice too........ S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1659	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: The right track for an AM Gp9/18

Greetings, I recieved my new American Models Santa Fe GP 9/18 diesel yesterday and its great! its quiet, it runs well and can pull a load but... It knocks off the first car's truck off the rails on both AF tinplate and pikemaster, drags the car around and eventually it will derail the whole mess. so... What is the best track to use since the AF rail's curves are too tight. I can keep the PM with the pm era engines and rolling stock but do I go S-helper? Gargraves? or something else to run my new toy. Due to space and other limitations I am limited to about 8 X 4 or thereabouts for now. Jeff Tangeman ps. where do you get handrails for this engine? pps. any recommendations on transformers?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1660	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: Diesel Roar

In a message dated 2/18/99 2:25:52 PM, djdewey@... wrote: <<The Roar units seem to vary. The first one I heard in my house was in a nearly new NH PA AA set. It actually sounded like an Alco, the off-beat RumbA rumbA that they're famous for having.>> Funny thing. One of my diesels equipped with Diesel Roar is a really nice New Haven AA pair, and it has the best sounding 'roar' of the lot - even over my other Alcos so equipped. Must have been a good production run! RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1661	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: SW-1

In message <36CB6B19.6AC6@...>, Robin Thompson <robin@...> writes >From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > >Dear Dave, > Funny you should mention a SW-1. We now have S scale model drawings >for the phase Ib SW-1. With the SW-9s about sold out, instead of >re-running these, we thought that a SW-1 might be a better choice. Suddenly John Prior's description of you jumping for glee at the sight of New Hope & Ivyland RRs SW1 PRR#9423, and photographing it from every angle makes sence......<G> SW1 yes please: in Milw Rd, CNW and SOO (Black and yellow switcher livery). Milw Rd used the SW1 elephant style (4-5 at a time) on light rail branches.... However please keep producing the SW9 - it is with out doubt the best S scale locomotive produced in the last decade - variations: how about a CN version with Flexicoil trucks and a kit of parts for those other CN features like the stacks, number boards. Best regards -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1662	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: The right track for an AM Gp9/18

Jeff, Does your new AM Geep have the American Flyer compatible operating coupler with the moulded in centering spring? My AM Geep which I bought before AM developed there operating coupler, came equipped with a dummy American Flyer size coupler without a centering spring. It just pivotted on the shoulder screw. I ran the Geep and a similarly equipped FP7 on AF track and turnouts without any problems. The non -operating coupler is available from AM. Let us know how you make out. 'S', Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1663	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: SW-1

Hi Ted, I think Don meant to replace the current cab-front slide with a different one. Also.... Don, remember that the last phase of SW1s ('54 on ?) had the same cabs as the SW9/1200 so it might be nice to have this phase available too. Now, does the Phase 1b you're planning have the single sloped hood in front of the cab or the compound-sloped hood? I can't find a definitive source right off hand but I'm sure it's in one of my X2200 Souths from way-back-when. If it's the compound-slope hood, you're well on your way to an NW2. Another thing to consider is that Alco S1s, S3s, S5s, S6s, and TR6s used the same trucks with the same truck centers so you might want to consider doing an Alco switcher in the not-too-distant future. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle. mhrreast@... wrote: ...but we would still need to > tool a new body and chassis, change the slide for the front of the cab > so that it has the arch windows, make a new tool for the front windows<< > > "Change" the slide??? as in modify it so you can't make SW-9's any more? > I hope not. Speaking only for myself, you have NOT filled the market for > SW-9's (you haven't run GN yet). Waiting a year before a re-run, and > doing > something different before then (SW-1) is a wonderful idea. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1664	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Good news of the gp front

Greetings again, I modified, removed actually, the spring tab on the rear coupler and my new GP 9 engine works fine on the old flyer tinplate, not so on PM but now I can stock up on the tinplate and search out switches for my all Santa Fe layout. Too bad I don't have the space for a double track mainline like I've seen in New Mexico. Jeff Tangeman ps. anyone have any extra flyer tinplate?:)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1665	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Vehicles

There are siting reports of the popular '66 GTO and '57 Buick in new colors at Target, Walmart etc. If you missed these in the first colors, it is second chance time. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/pictureTaking/index.shtml ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1666	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: SW-1

Thank you for all the input on the SW-1s. To calm some fears, please be advised: We will be making an additonal slide for the cab front. The phase 1b SW-1 has the compound transition from the hood to the cab. And, yes we know that the NW-2 uses the same cab. We decided against the 1954 version (like the New Hope and Ivyland, ex-PRR SW-1) because it was too similar to the SW-9 with the same stack, cab, hood to cab transition, front corner handrails, etc. And do not dispair, the GN is on the short list of SW-1's. Just look at the cabooses we have with no SW-9 and SW-9's that have sold out to get an idea of roadnames. We are only planning one black scheme and it will mostlikely be the B&M. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1667	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Derailments

Hi guy"S" ; For those of you running mixed trains. No, not freight and passenger. I am refering to mixing AF with AM trains, or others. The even though the couplers mesh on a straight section then probably will not on a curve. The couplers on both items must be mounted in the same manner. You cannot mate a truck mounted coupler, to a car with a body mounted coupler. It just will not work. Also if the couplers are mounted the same, do the knuckles slide smoothly within each other in a curve? And if everything is matched correctly, consider; Are the wheels in guage? (left to right) Is the track in guage? Is the lead car (Behind the loco) a light weight? (flat car) A heavy train behind a flat car will derail the flat car. Adding a heavy cargo item will help. Are the wheel flanges hitting the body. Some hoppers are like this. Sometimes you have to retire a car that will not work with any of the others. Take a car that derails, close the coupler. bring it up to the other car (coupler closed) in a curve. The couplers should be nose to nose exactly. If they don't, they will not work together. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1668	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Derailments

Before you do anything visit the American Models "Suffering Mystery Derailments?" at http://www.americanmodels.com/trouble.html -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1669	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Re: The right track for an AM Gp9/18

Jeffrey Tangeman wrote: > > From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...> > > Greetings, > > I recieved my new American Models Santa Fe GP 9/18 diesel yesterday and its > great! its quiet, it runs well and can pull a load but... > > It knocks off the first car's truck off the rails on both AF tinplate and > pikemaster, drags the car around and eventually it will derail the whole mess. > > so... Unhook thr coupler centering spring. > What is the best track to use since the AF rail's curves are too tight. I > can keep the PM with the pm era engines and rolling stock but do I go > S-helper? Gargraves? or something else to run my new toy. > Due to space and other limitations I am limited to about 8 X 4 or > thereabouts for now. With the centering spring unhooked I have no problem on AF track. > > Jeff Tangeman > > ps. where do you get handrails for this engine? From AM unless you want brass. > pps. any recommendations on transformers I use anything available. They don't draw enough wattage to require much of a transformer. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1670	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/18/1999
Subject: Bunch of stuff

For Jeff, Des Plaines has brass ones, if you want the plastic ones look under the foam holder, they are usually under it. Others Bulkhead loads are about 2 feet longer than the AF cars Monon felt the BL-2 frames were perhaps weak so they rebuilt #30 with a heavier frame.....and kept the MU to two units. However other roads didn't see a problem as I've seen photos of the RI units MU'ed with an FP-7 and the BL-2's running in the #2 and #3 position. MU capabality some had it some did not, just depended upon the roads. The major drawback to the BL-2 was in maintenance and it was also extremely expensive to build...compared to the F series and the coming GP series so 59 were built. Gale

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1671	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 2/19/1999
Subject: 312 Green Passenger Cars

In a message dated 2/15/99 a question was asked which of the AF passenger cars are appropriate to the AF PRR K5 loco #312. I found a link coupler 312 a few years ago that included two New Haven style 650 coaches and a 651 baggage car. All cars were green. No reason to believe they didn't leave the factory together. Alan Udy, RMHR Idaho Falls, Idaho ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1672	From: Kimball, Bob (PB)	Date: 2/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 142

I hope this means the NP is on the short list of SW-9's to be produced. When will it be available? Bob Kimball > ---------- > From: S-Trains@onelist.com[SMTP:S-Trains@onelist.com] > Reply To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Sent: Friday, February 19, 1999 12:55 AM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 142 > > > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 06:29:32 EST > From: mhrreast@... > Subject: SW-1 > > >> With the SW-9s about sold out, instead of > re-running these, we thought that a SW-1 might be a better choice. Of > course most of the drive parts are the same, but we would still need to > tool a new body and chassis, change the slide for the front of the cab > so that it has the arch windows, make a new tool for the front windows<< > > "Change" the slide??? as in modify it so you can't make SW-9's any more? > I hope not. Speaking only for myself, you have NOT filled the market for > SW-9's (you haven't run GN yet). Waiting a year before a re-run, and > doing > something different before then (SW-1) is a wonderful idea. > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > Message: 16 > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:53:21 -0500 > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > Subject: Re: SW-1 > > Thank you for all the input on the SW-1s. To calm some fears, please > be advised: > We will be making an additonal slide for the cab front. > The phase 1b SW-1 has the compound transition from the hood to the > cab. > And, yes we know that the NW-2 uses the same cab. > We decided against the 1954 version (like the New Hope and Ivyland, > ex-PRR SW-1) because it was too similar to the SW-9 with the same stack, > cab, hood to cab transition, front corner handrails, etc. > And do not dispair, the GN is on the short list of SW-1's. Just > look > at the cabooses we have with no SW-9 and SW-9's that have sold out to > get an idea of roadnames. We are only planning one black scheme and it > will mostlikely be the B&M. > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1673	From: Michael Greene	Date: 2/19/1999
Subject: UPDATE: S Gaugian index project

Here's this week's status report -- All issues from Jan/Feb 1980 forward to current now have their basic index on-line at the Model Train Magazine Index. In addition, these three columns: Product Reviews American Flyer Collector's Column The Roundhouse have also been added to the index for all issues in 1992 and Jan/Feb 1999. These columns in the other years for 1980 forward will also be included, but the indexing is being done manually, so it will take a little time. You might try a couple of searches to see the progress... For Hartoy trucks: http://www.accurail.com/tm.exe?opt=G&cmdtext=Hartoy&output=3&sort=D For S-Helper Service items: http://www.accurail.com/tm.exe?opt=G&cmdtext=S-helper&output=3&sort=D For AF Hudson: http://www.accurail.com/tm.exe?opt=G&cmdtext=AF+Hudson&output_t=3&sort=d Enjoy Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1674	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/19/1999
Subject: Video Clips

If you have not visited the S-Trains message board I suggest you pay it a visit. http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi/mb19857 There are now two video clips on http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/library/library.htm -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1675	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Non trains phone bill increase - internet access

I received this from another newsgroup. And heard on this AM radio that an increase is in the works. FYI--- Forget Y2K and impeachment hearings, a far greater evil is on the horiz= on: Congress will be voting (in less than two weeks) to decide whether or not telephone companiescan levy a charge on your phone bill equal to a long distance call EACH time you access the Internet. The address is http://www.house.gov/writerep Visit the address above and fill out the necessary form! Tell your Congressman to vote against Internet Access Fees! If each one of us forwards this message on to others in a hurry,we may be able to prevent this injustice! We all need to respond to this if we don't want to lose another piece of our Right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Ma Bell's siblings aren't satisfied with all those long distance fax, phone, and cellular calls, and wants even more of our money. Surely a lot of people will stop using the Internet if Congress passes this bill ,and the end of democracy (actually representative republicanism) will no doubt soon follow. Please double click on the address above to tell your Congressman NOW!! Before we are all paying long distance tolls, to dial a local phone number to access the Internet!! Lars

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1676	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Re: Non trains phone bill increase - internet access

Hi Ya'll. I too received this notice from two or three sources. Later, I received a debunker from another source. This is one of the internet hoaxes that travels around and around and around. It ranks up high along with the 'Great Kidney removal' scheme and the 'Free Disney trip sponsored by Walt Disney's son' scam. Try not to believe everything you read in the papers nor on these tubes. Great ZOT itS, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: LARSPAINTR@... <LARSPAINTR@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 8:03 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Non trains phone bill increase - internet access >From: LARSPAINTR@... > >I received this from another newsgroup. And heard on this AM radio that an >increase is in the works. > >FYI--- > >Forget Y2K and impeachment hearings, a far greater evil is on the horiz= >on: > >Congress will be voting (in less than two weeks) to decide whether or not >telephone companiescan levy a charge on your phone bill equal to a long >distance call EACH time you access the Internet. > >The address is http://www.house.gov/writerep >Visit the address above and fill out the necessary form! > Tell your Congressman to vote against Internet Access Fees! >If each one of us forwards this message on to others in a hurry,we may >be able to prevent this injustice! > We all need to respond to this if we don't want to lose >another piece of our Right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. > >Ma Bell's siblings aren't satisfied with all those long distance fax, >phone, and cellular calls, and wants even more of our money. Surely a >lot of people will stop using the Internet if Congress passes this bill >,and the end of democracy >(actually representative republicanism) will no doubt soon follow. > >Please double click on the address above to tell your Congressman NOW!! >Before we are all paying long distance tolls, to dial a local phone number >to access the Internet!! >Lars

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1677	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Misc.]

Roger Hinds wrote: > > Hi; > > Just a brief comment regarding Phone companies and internet access > charges. > I wrote to my congressman about this. His reply: (in brief) The phone > companies did try it. Congress quickly threw the proposal out. > The reason; Phone companies cannot charge for any kind of local calls. > Not even for the amount time you use the internet. A local call is free > no matter how you use it. > > Any way, to trains. I will open my museum early this year because of > the mild weather. (Now watch us go into a deep freeze.) My hours will be > at random for now. My regular hours pick up in June. > > For those of you that do not know, the major theme of my museum is based > on trains. The majority of my train collection is AF Gilbert. The main > display is an AF layout. 16' X 33' . > > Yes wehave a lot of other RR items. Also many Non RR items as well. > Ask for more details on the other items. > > See the museum web site at, WWW.mrsr.com/cofa > > So. --- About my Mountain division project. I went down to the > Frankenstien trestle to take pictures of the cliff for reference. I will > make a model of the cliff for the back ground of the trestle. > > Climbers were scaling the ice build up on the cliff that day. I wonder > if I should include that in my display? > > Anyway the cliff and trestle will make an impressive display. > > Well I suppose I should get back to work. > > Later > > Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1678	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Track products.

Hello Guy"S" ; I figure I better lt every one know of my price changes. This is due to an added expense on my end. This message is for new members and those that lost the previous info. and wish an update on ordering info. Rust remover, track cleaner, polish. Commonly known to some as Colonel Brassy. New price $ 23.25 Free instructions for use. Track oil. Eliminates cleaning forever (almost). $ 5.55 Free instructions. Both items; $ 27.50 Order from: Roger Hinds 6 Trudeau Rd. Bethlehem NH 03574 I did an in depth description of use of these products a few months ago. Look for a a past digest for more info. Under the subject of Rust remover. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1679	From: Jim Hamlin	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Beginner Questions

I am going back in time by purchasing an AF New Haven passenger set with a #290 loco and tender, circa 1947a, from a friend. (My dad built my first set around 1955.) Several novice questions: - I will want to add a freight set and plan to buy period cars. I would like to buy a diesel to pull these. What would you all suggest? I see plenty of classic 50's on ebay; any feelings about repros made by American Models? - I'd like to find a book that shows photos of all AF diesels so that I can reference the model numbers you all use (Greek to me). Ideas? - Can I purchase roadbed for S-gauge track at a hobby shop, even if they don't carry AF equipment? (May be wrong term -- the stuff under the track!) - I also need a book on properly wiring a layout. That's all for now -- thanks! Jim Hamlin jlhamlin@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1680	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Re: Beginner Questions--some answers

Jim, Your plans and questions seem to be typical of many recently. There must be a resurgence of nostalgia around the country! The AF diesels are all correct for your period, I believe (Dangerous statement to make, someone will find a flaw in the lineup!). The GP series are the most reliable ones, from an operator's standpoint. The AM locos have a reputation of running well, although there seems to be an on-going coupler problem. The Greenberg's series of AF books have a lot of photos, and interesting facts on AF. You can also pick up less than mint catalogs to help you see the various cars. Since you want to 'operate', as opposed to 'collect the rarest of the rare' (no 'slam' to either desire, they're just different criteria), you can pick up a nice variety of freight cars inexpensively. I am familiar with the internet auction systems (eBay being the most common), and it is rare to get a 'bargain basement' buy there. You would do well to check out some train shows where you can look at and discuss what you are purchasing. While most AF steamers run well with little care, the same is not true of the diesels! There are some engineering compromises on these that cause premature wear of axle bearings, which leads to gear wear and motor problems. Properly taken care of, they will do yeomen duty, but be prepared to have to work, or have work done on, any 'new' purchase! This opens up a whole 'can of worms' as to why they have the problems, but most everyone agrees that they do have them! I'm not clear as to what you're looking for for roadbed. If you want the 'slips over the ties' AF type rubber roadbed, you may have to scrounge around, or you can purchase the nicely done reproduction pieces. I did recently miss a good buy on eBay for a lot of this with track, went for around $ 1.50 a piece, a bargain even if the track was junk. (Well, sometimes there are bargains there!) If you want some material to put under the ties like the other gauges use, you can find stuff at the hardware store. There are ongoing discussions as to what is best for this, cork, homosite, or other stuff. I don't have a clue! Good trackwork is the basis for fun operating trains, so pay careful attention to what you buy for track. Layout planning is also another 'lost art' There are some books available, but some people just seem to have 'the touch' when it comes to getting the most variety of operations out of the least space (if you didn't notice it, this was a good excuse to go look at others' layouts!). S people are most helpful, if you don't live near any of them, ask on this forum (as you have already!), otherwise, develop some S friendships--it's really easy! BTW, welcome back to 'the fold', we'll show you the secret handshake later!<G> S'incerely, David Dewey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1681	From: Dave Heine	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Re: BL-2 daydreaming

>From: "Donald E. Munsey, Jr." <dmunsey@...> > >Folks (I've got my Class B-C fire extinguiher ready to put out the >flames), > >Those of you who are free-lance, narrow-minded types, not too hung up on >exact dimensions (metric or otherwise) and are looking for something >different in the what-if category, here goes!! > I seem to recall a BL2 produced in HO several years ago, (maybe >still in production??). What about a kit bash into Sn# a la the WP&Y >RRs modern diesels? > >OK - now - READY - FIRE - AIM !!! >-- >Big Swede (aka Don Munsey, Jr.) No flames from me for either using an HO or S BL2 for a SnX locomotive from me. After all I built an Sn3 diesel using an AM GP35 shell and a regauged HO C-C mechanism. Now if someone would make an S scale SD45 or a C40-9W we could use it to build a model of one of the behemoths on the meter gauge Victoria a Minas railroad in Brazil. Just remember, HO exists so that S (and On30) narrow gaugers can use it as a source for mechanisms and cheap rolling stock <g>. Dave Heine Narrow minded and proud of it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1682	From: AC4400W@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: 1999 TCA Car

Hello Everyone: My name is Wayne Hills. I am the owner of a little business named Marker Light Productions. I produce (or am trying to, anyway) brass passenger car sides in S scale. On occasion I also produce S scale decals. In addition to this, I am also the "silent partner" (employee would be a better term but I won't get into that) in R.S.S.V.P. Models which is owned by Mr. Jerry Rivet. My involvement in R.S.S.V.P. Models for the past four years has been that I produce all the artwork for almost all of the custom freight cars that Jerry has produced, not to mention the ad copy, the order forms, the product announcements and whatever else needs to be done that involves the artwork. I am writing this because I would like you all to know what transpired with the T.C.A. regarding the 1999 convention car, and just what kind of people operate the T.C.A. at National Headquarters. Jerry Rivet was contacted over a year ago by the Bay Area Chapter of the TCA, to produce a custom car for the 1999 convention. The original car that they wanted was to be an S Helper Service PS-2 covered hopper with a fictitious paint scheme for Giradelli Chocolate, a well known west coast chocolate manufacturer. I spent many hours designing this car for them and supplied Jerry with a variety of paint schemes for both the TCA and Giradelli Chocolate to choose from. While the people at Giradelli were impressed with the artwork, they did not give their approval to the project, which meant the TCA chapter had to find another car. Since one of the principal officers of the Bay Area chapter worked for the Chevron Corporation, and Chevron has a special safety training tank car, he was able to secure artwork of the car and paint samples for us to design a Chevron tank car. Since Jerry had been working closely with Russ Downs of Downs Model Railroad Company, it was agreed that Downs would be the car manufacturer. Once again, I spent many hours producing the artwork for a Chevron tank car, which included sending the artwork to Chevron for their approval, and the Chevron people were impressed with the artwork and gave the project their blessing, with the stipulation that this car would be the only car produced on a one-time basis. A preliminary copy of the final version of the artwork was sent to California for approval by the Chevron people and submission by the Bay Area chapter to TCA National Headquarters for their approval. Here's where the fun begins. The first time Jerry, Russ or I knew anything was amiss was when Russ received his copy of the TCA magazine in the mail. Imagine our shock and surprise when my artwork appeared on the cover and in the center-spread of the magazine with the statement that this would be an American Models car!! Jerry and Russ are bigger gentlemen than I am, because I was all in favor of hiring legal counsel and suing the TCA for every penny we could get, while Jerry and Russ didn't want to do that "because it would be bad for the hobby". Jerry had several conversations with the folks (who shall remain nameless to hide their guilt) at TCA national headquarters, and they admitted that they sent the artwork to American Models without our permission and gave the project to them without consulting us. How's that for ethics? The TCA also agreed to compensate Jerry and myself for our out-of-pocket expenses related to this project, and to print an apology and retraction in the next available issue of the magazine. Since I am not a TCA member, I had to wait until I could get a friend to show me his copy of the magazine to see what the TCA would publish about this. I was finally able to see what they published about all of this just this week. What they published was a nice little "white wash" of the whole affair, stating "The S gauve Chevron Tank Car as illustrated in the September, 1998 National Headquarters News was published by mistake." They didn't even give me credit for the artwork! There was no admission of unethical conduct, of stealing someone else's artwork, or any wrong doing of any kind!! Not only this, but Jerry and I have yet to be paid for our expenses, and believe me folks, the amount the TCA agreed to pay us is just exactly that, for our expenses, and not a penny more. I would like to point out that none of this is American Models' fault. They didn't (and probably still do not) know anything about this. All they knew was that the TCA National Headquarters contacted them and handed them a nice fat profitable deal for a lot of tank cars. Since the TCA obviously does not seem to want to take responsibility for, or admit to their wrong doing, I felt compelled to let you all know just what kind of people run the TCA. So now, as a certain famous news person says, you know "the rest of the story". Wayne Hills

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1683	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: S scale(gauge) trains

The reference book you want for American Flyer diesels, steam engines, and all their freight and passenger cars is Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer S Gauge: Motive Power and Rolling Stock, Vol 1, by Joe Deger. This book is published by Kalmbach Publishing, and can be obtained through Paul Yorke's website http://www.gate.net/~yorke/booklist2.htm, through any hobby shop who carries Kalmbach products, or general ookstores. A companion to the above book is American Flyer 1999 (Greenberg's Pocket Price Guide), which is updated annually, and gives price guidelines for AF, and now American Models and S-Helper Service equipment. How accurate their prices are is subject to discussion, but it gives you a reference and starting point to compare to what you see elsewhere. I agree with David Dewey that bidding on E-bay tends to go higher that you should find by visiting local train meets. There are several all-S gauge shows held annually in Ohio and Illinois/Wisconsin/Missouri, open to the general public, and the Train Collectors Association York, Pennsylvania meet in April and October (members only) where there are a lot of American Flyer and other S-gauge manufacturers' products offered. There are major shows in other parts of the country, and you should check with train collector friends or hobby shops to see what is available in your part of the country. Good luck and happy training. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1684	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: price guides

Objection: I would like to state that myself and most of my friends consider price guides totally worthless. A toy train is worth exactly what you can get for it -- no more, no less. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1685	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/20/1999
Subject: Re: price guides

Well, this should provide a lively discussion! I use price guides as a 'blue book' for trains. Remember that the automotive blue book is only a tool, oftime used against the car owner!! Dealers will only pay less than 'low book' and only sell for at or higher than 'high book'. Toytrains are the same, if not worse!! But when you are purchasing a train from 'Joe Yardsale' and he's been told that 'they're worth a fortune!' you can at least show them the book so they can see that the 'worth a fortune' pieces are seldom found, and are not in their 'goldmine'. I also explain that dealers pay much sell than what is show, as they have to store, clean, haul, etc. etc. the stuff before it ever sells. I'm actually suprised at how little others around here apparently offer, as I've purchased stuff I really didn't want when I made what I consider, a very low offer, to later find out I was their highest offer! Oh well, I was happy, they were happy, guess that's all that matters! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1686	From: esquivel	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: move to north carolina

hello, I just moved to Hendersonville, North Caroloina. Does anyone live close by? I want someone to play trains with. Please let me know. thanks alot, dave esquivel@... ---------- > From: Jarcho <jarcho@...> > To: S-trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] price guides > Date: Sunday, February 21, 1999 12:53 AM > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > Objection: I would like to state that myself and most of my friends > consider price guides totally worthless. A toy train is worth exactly what > you can get for it -- no more, no less. Tom Jarcho > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ta Da! See our new web site. http://www.onelist.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1687	From: michael prell	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides

I tend to lean toward idealism when it comes to my AF stuff. That's why what I'm about to say probably will be way out in left field, but here goes anyway. It has been a contention of mine for quite some time that the comparison of prices between the product being produced today vs "the value" placed on older AF (1946-64) is a bit one sided. For example, if Lionel were to produce an AF Hudson 314AW, the price might go for as high as $2k, and no one would think much about it. However, if one wanted an "original" of the same variety, a price in the neighborhood of what? $350-$400 would be asked? Realizing that it"costs" more to produce stuff these days is part of the difference. This, I think most of us understand and accept. My gripe is that the "original" has survived all of these years!!! It would be nice if this survival factor were taken into consideration! I doubt very much that a 1999 version would last as long, or run as well by the time it reaches the age of 50, IF IT REACHES THAT AGE! As I said at the start, I do tend to lean toward idealistic thought. It just seems to me that there needs to be a better balance in this pricing system. ---Jarcho <jarcho@...> wrote: > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > Objection: I would like to state that myself and most of my friends > consider price guides totally worthless. A toy train is worth exactly what > you can get for it -- no more, no less. Tom Jarcho > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ta Da! See our new web site. http://www.onelist.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1688	From: michael prell	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides

I tend to lean toward idealism when it comes to my AF stuff. That's why what I'm about to say probably will be way out in left field, but here goes anyway. It has been a contention of mine for quite some time that the comparison of prices between the product being produced today vs "the value" placed on older AF (1946-64) is a bit one sided. For example, if Lionel were to produce an AF Hudson 314AW, the price might go for as high as $2k, and no one would think much about it. However, if one wanted an "original" of the same variety, a price in the neighborhood of what? $350-$400 would be asked? Realizing that it"costs" more to produce stuff these days is part of the difference. This, I think most of us understand and accept. My gripe is that the "original" has survived all of these years!!! It would be nice if this survival factor were taken into consideration! I doubt very much that a 1999 version would last as long, or run as well by the time it reaches the age of 50, IF IT REACHES THAT AGE! As I said at the start, I do tend to lean toward idealistic thought. It just seems to me that there needs to be a better balance in this pricing system. ---Jarcho <jarcho@...> wrote: > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > Objection: I would like to state that myself and most of my friends > consider price guides totally worthless. A toy train is worth exactly what > you can get for it -- no more, no less. Tom Jarcho > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ta Da! See our new web site. http://www.onelist.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1689	From: alice beachy	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: 1999 TCA Car

Hi Everyone, I read Wayne Hill's letter with dismay and disgust. I also do graphic artwork for the benefit of S Gauge and I know how I would feel if someone or some club did that to me. I bought the car this year, not because I cared anything about Chevron and I certainly do not need another tank car, but because I wanted to support TCA and their providing a non-Lionel car. Monday, I will call TCA on the phone and try to get them to cancel my order. If they will not, I plan to take the car to the next York meet after I receive it, smash it and make sure there are lots of local press and representatives of national Model RR press to witness. Anyone care to join me? I also think a lot of letters to the editor of the quarterly (who is also into S Gauge) would embarass them enough to appologize to Wayne, Jerry and Russ and pay them what they deserve, and hopfully prevent them from doing it again. Yes, I am a radical child of the turbulent 60's. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1690	From: Dennis Back	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: 1999 TCA Car/SHOCKED!

I am shocked to have read the email from Wayne Hills about the unauthorized use of his artwork. Having been in the hobby for only a year, I was considering joining the TCA, as the organization to me was SUPPOSED to represent "truth and honesty". I have emailed the TCA and asked them for their side of the story. I will share any info that I receive. Dennis Miami, Fl.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1691	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides

Mr. Prell: Congratulations! Do you realize that you just put a price tag of $400.00 on a 314AW? This is an engine, in excellent condition with controller, that is worth about $175.00. For $400.00 I would expect AC Gilbert's ashes with it! If you are both capable and willing to spend 2k on a Lionel reproduction, more power to you. Realize that such an engine would be plastic, equipped with a questionable mechanism, and probably lettered for the Florida East Coast. Witness what they (Lionel) did to the Santa Fe box car last year. About 15 years ago Lionel advertised a Hudson engine lettered for the Wabash and Santa Fe for about $350.00, as I recall. It was never produced. At that time, one could obtain a 322, etc... AF Hudson for around $100-$125.00. Please keep in mind the impact such random statements about value have on the novice S gauger. If you have a 314AW that you feel is worth $400.00, you'd better try to sell it at the next show in your area. Best wishes, Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1692	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: History lesson

To respond to Mike Prells letter History has already shown just the opposite in your Hudson story, when Lionel wanted to produce the Santa Fe and Wabash Hudsons, the price tag new was $435 and the reason for it falling flat was the fact at the time you could still get a Hudson in really nice condition for half that price......now you might be right perhaps you couldn't the 314 AW, would that be a Hudific or a Pacson. Ya know for years folks went from Hi Rail to scale, the strange thing here is that the prices of Flyer equipment zoomed upward but you could by a brass engine and the price generally stays the same 5 or 10 years down the road if not less, especially if a dealer has it in stock. Maybe we need to sell the brass quick and buy vintage Flyer.... It is also strange too that Flyer sets the zoom factor in S gauge, American Models or S Helper will be considered at $39,95 from now on, regardless of the quantity made......same happens in trucks, Winross sets the zoom factor, after it is unavailable from Winross the price jumps to $75 or $100 and goes up from there. Ertl trucks go up but only a percentage of Winross. So now you have Winross trucks hitting the $1200 to 1500 range in a matter of 10 to 15 years. Tractors, hmmm Ertl sets the zoom factor several 1978 and 1979 tractors are going for $100 a pop in 1/64.....Scale Models makes 1/64th tractors and maybe the $3 tractor then is $10 now go figure. This all actually as simple as fishing, you stand on the bank and see how far you can cast out, or else you buy a $20000 bass boat and see how close you can cast to the shore. Go figure... Gale Hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1693	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides

Someone Wrote...... <<Mr. Prell: Congratulations! Do you realize that you just put a price tag of $400.00 on a 314AW? This is an engine, in excellent condition with controller, that is worth about $175.00. >>> I'll take all the EX 314AW's complete with controllers you can find at $175 each...... That price has not been realized in a LONG time for that loco. More typical is about $300 to $350.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1694	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides

Hey, and just what is wrong with FEC? As a sideline grumble, I find it irritating that the manufacturers always make PRR, ATSF, NYC, UP and other well publicized roads and ignore much of the color available in the roads that were less noisy. I suppose that further illustrates the market tyranny imposed by costs of production and set up charges. It is not less irritating just because I understand the situation. (I have the same sort of problem when I go to buy shoes.) It is not always a good idea to vote on the specific nature of models to be produced based solely on the number of prototypes that were produced or the number of years they were working. When SHS produces rolling stock with both scale and hirail wheels, they avoid the bigotry of one over the other. What a great solution. I think of some of those questions as 'religious' in nature: none of us will be swayed to the 'other' opinion by any argument. We like what we like as a matter of faith. No one wins the arguments and there is no way for a manufacturer to win by favoring just one side of any of the issues. When I hear the requests for particular decoration schemes or unique accessory equipment I think it would be better if more equipment was produced with in the box options or in partially kit form. We could add the parts we want if we want them. We can apply decals for different decorations when they fit our wishes and needs. That way, we might each pay a little more, but, the stocking costs would be less and more of us could buy just the models we want. That might not be the correct solution for all locomotives and cars, but, it might broaden the interest, appeal and potential market for many of them. Any strategy that allows the hobby dealers to carry stock that can be sold to a wider market is a strategy that will benefit all of us in the S (gauge, scale and sinker) fraternity. Great ZOT itS, Bill Porter >From: Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> > >...Realize that such an >engine would be plastic, equipped with a questionable mechanism, and >probably lettered for the Florida East Coast. ....., > >Bruce >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1695	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: 1999 TCA Car

I can sympathize with Wayne. Some years ago I did some art work for a city-wide celebration, gratis. I was happy to contribute. A few years later I found my artwork on a beer company Tee shirt, and the local paper was using another part as a border on some commercial advertisements. Guess my work was better than I thought, but it would have been nice to have been asked first. Wayne's in a tougher situation though, this is his income source! TCA not only owes an apology, but one would think they would use Wayne's services under contract for a few years too, with appropriate compensation! On another note, I was talking to one of the 'big wheels' about the TTOS cars, and was amazed to find that the paint scheme they are considering for next year is what the real car is currently painted, but it was given that paint scheme about 10 years ago. This gentleman would hardly believe me when I told him it wasn't the original scheme, or even appropriate for our 'lost in the '50s era' layouts. I'm beginning to understand how some of these outlandishly modeled car schemes come about! It will make a swell looking car though..... S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1696	From: Chasbo86@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: Beginner Questions

Hi: I too am a relative beginner and with all the train stuff that I found in our attic about a year ago was a book that has been a great help. It gives wiring diagrams, track layout, index by American Flyer number of all engines, cars, switches, action platforms such as oil drum loader, etc., parts, & repair instructions. It's called "Complete Service Manual for American Flyer Trains" by K-Line and reprinted 1983 by MDK Inc, PO Box 2831, Chapel hill, NC, 27514. I'm sure this book will give you everything that you are looking for and more. I might also suggest the New Haven Electric engine. American Flyer number 21573. I have one and it runs great. With it's three cars I can't run it at full speed around the curves because it will derail. I have had it pulling twelve freight cars, three of which are the old metal ones, with no problem . Good luck. Nice chatting with you. Charlie B

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1697	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: price guides, prices, TCA

Well, I'm glad to see that there's some agreement with my feeling about price guides. To me, they are part of a hysterical effort to keep train prices up. They lead people to make mistakes. Just met a new collector who bought a bunch of junk diesels off e-bay only because their prices were lower than those quoted in a price guide. Now his hobby dollars have been spent on non running evil looking junk. The locos don't run, the paint and decals are flying off them, and the motor chassises are worn out. This is a big disappointment for a beginner in the hobby to recover from. Another mistake that price guides cause is to mislead people as to the recovery value of their "collections". I am convinced that a lot of fellas put some of their retirement money into their trains because they are led by price guide prices to believe that they will be able to recover this money when needed, or even that it will grow while it is "invested" in trains. It is very hard to realize more than a fraction of "book value" when selling a collection. I wrote an article that went into this subject in depth. Of course, no magazine would publish it. AF prices in general are nuts. Someone said the 314AW is worth $400. Why? To put on a wall with every other K-5, like stuffed mounted heads of the big game hunters' Big Five? To complete a "set" as though they were postage stamps? Have you ever had one? The small pre-pulmor motor and lack of pul-mor tires means it can pull about 5 cars max. The link coupler means those cars will probably uncouple all over the place. If you have the original cars, some of them will probably be warped. And that whistle? When you pull the switch, the train will either slow down or speed up, then there will be a buzz, then a grinding noise, then a howl will gradually emerge from the tender, and after a moment's puzzlement, onlookers will go "Wow, that's a whistle!" their voices full of pride at having figured out the phenomenon. And that's only if the darn thing works. Lots of times it won't, and you'll have to stop what you're doing, whip the loco off the track, remove 4 screws from the tender, take off the body, and adjust the contact spring. BUT to get it to "work", you have to tune up not one motor but two. You will have to disassemble the tender, which is packed full of wires, some of which are quite thin and brittle, and replace the whistle impeller, which will have disintegrated. (If the whistle works, there's a repro impeller in there, and the loco is no longer "all original") JUST PRAY that you don't have to replace reverse unit fingers. I used to do surgery on small animals, and it was a lot easier. I have had to charge several customers $150 for a complete job on a 314AW. And all this fun can be yours for only 3 to 4 hundred dollars? Get real. So what is the mechanism by which prices get inflated to this level? I haven't got it all figured out yet, but it is obvious that price guides play a part. The idea that there is anything remotely resembling a fixed price or value for a toy train item is totally fallacious. As I said, a toy train is worth exactly what you can get for it, no more and no less. "And that's the way it is..." To my way of thinking, the TCA also has contributed to the feeding frenzy of toy train price inflation. A lot of you guys are interested in history. Remember in high school history class we learned about one of the great conflicts in American history, between "old money" and "new money"? Well, the TCA represents the interest of the "old money" , the guys who went out and bought up all the trains in the 60's and 70's when they were dirt cheap and plentiful. Now a lot of these guys are good people and my friends and I don't mean to get personally insulting to anyone, but they set up the rules in their favor. When when they bought their trains, they could pick and choose. As far as I know, they took the position that any item with a single drop of non original paint on it or repro part in it was worthless. not part of the "game". Their trains are the only "true" trains. This means that all the damaged items that people like myself and many of you have repaired and restored and brought back to life are somehow supposed to be of lesser quality, forgeries or worthless. Well, I don't buy that either. A train is a train. Any reworked train is supposed to have an "R" on the bottom. Well, I say it ought to be an "M" if anything, for "properly maintained". As all these trains age, they are going to need some serious and expensive conservation techniques, and the line between unworked and reworked trains will fade. But if reworked trains are declared "value"less, will these techniques ever be developed? Here's an example of how TCA thinking shoots itself in the foot. It is impossible to purchase repro decals that are exactly the same as the originals. This is so that the"old money" can distinguish between originals and repros. Therefore, if a decal has a small area of damage on it, it is impossible to cut a small piece off a repro decal and patch the area. The choice is to replace the entire decal or leave the damage, which will spread over time. Look at that beautiful all original diesel tearing down the track with its nose decal flapping in the breeze. The TCA has done a tremendous amount of good in a lot of ways. However, as I said it tends to be slanted towards the interests of their constituency rather than the interests of the hobby as a whole. To those who have all the trains, high prices are a blessing. To those who are trying to acquire them, high prices are a curse. Their disciplinary actions, I have heard, tend to be somewhat arbitrary, capricious, and uneven. A voluntary organization that is geographically spread out like that can not be expected to always behave in an efficient manner. I am not totally comfortable with being a part of a hobby organization that disciplines and punishes people. So I haven't joined yet. But I may, If they would still have me after this. Tom Jarcho .

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1698	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Good preaching

Way to go Tom!!!!!!!! Gale

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1699	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides, prices, TCA

Tom: Points very well taken! A great editorial. Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1700	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides, prices, TCA

In a message dated 2/21/99 5:41:54 PM, jarcho@... wrote: Well, well. Let's, please, consider an alternate angle: <<They lead people to make mistakes. Just met a new collector who bought a bunch of junk diesels off e-bay only because their prices were lower than those quoted in a price guide. Now his hobby dollars have been spent on non running evil looking junk. The locos don't run, the paint and decals are flying off them, and the motor chassises are worn out. This is a big disappointment for a beginner in the hobby to recover from. >> ***A sad story to be sure, but the introductory text in most any guide of which I know states to the effect that: (1) they are just a guide, and (2) if you are new at collecting trains, they pointedly recommend not making a serious purchase without first consulting someone knowledgeable. The story possibly speaks more to the problems of buying blind on e-bay than of the guides. A case could be argued that the guides help to keep gouging and dishonesty in bounds to some degree. *** <<Another mistake that price guides cause is to mislead people as to the recovery value of their "collections". I am convinced that a lot of fellas put some of their retirement money into their trains because they are led by price guide prices to believe that they will be able to recover this money when needed, or even that it will grow while it is "invested" in trains. It is very hard to realize more than a fraction of "book value" when selling a collection. I wrote an article that went into this subject in depth. Of course, no magazine would publish it. >> ***Collectibles are often speculative 'investments'. The old dictum holds: Buy a train because you like it, not because of some perceived investment value. Tom McComas, for one, has said this more than once on the Tom Snyder TV shows dedicated to toy trains.*** <<AF prices in general are nuts. Someone said the 314AW is worth $400. Why? To put on a wall with every other K-5, like stuffed mounted heads of the big game hunters' Big Five? To complete a "set" as though they were postage stamps? >> ***Well, different collectors collect for different reasons. By the way, with only one new die cast S gauge steam engine for tin plate and hi-rail operation in the last 40+ years (the Pacific from AM for $450.00), a 325 in E condition at, say, about $250.00 with smoke, choo-choo, and air chime whistle is a relative bargain. AF prices are not "nuts" but rather reflect supply and demand in the marketplace. Consider the last time that a production run of Seaboard coal loaders took place and go figure. *** <<Have you ever had one? The small pre-pulmor motor and lack of pul-mor tires means it can pull about 5 cars max. The link coupler means those cars will probably uncouple all over the place. >> ***Gee, I have no problem pulling over 20 cars with my 314AW, 315, or name it. In fact, any Gilbert K-5 in good repair will 'Pulmor' than the AM Pacific (Yes, I also do have an AM Pacific and like it very much.). *** <<As I said, a toy train is worth exactly what you can get for it, no more and no less. >> ***Agreed!! This is determined in the market place where supply and demand rule, not guides. If anything, Greenberg's AF guide has been notorously behind the curve for a number of years in the areas of accessories and clean die cast steam engines (to name two).*** Thanks. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1701	From: John Foley	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: NASG Name badges

>Delivered-To: foley164@... >X-Sender: foley164@... >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) >Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1999 19:46:15 -0800 >To: foley164@... >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: NASG Name badges > >Hi Folks > > I just received my new NASG name badge, It's well done and attractive. >If you would like to see what they look like and to order click on address; > > http://trainweb.com/nasg/clearinghouse.html > > John Foley > Nasg Eastern VP > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1702	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Price guides

RB: here are my reactions to your objections: 1. Price guides do have an introduction that says the info in them should not be relied upon. Why then publish them or purchase them? 2. While a "collectible"(whatever that is) may be a "speculative investment" (whatever that is), a toy train should be purchased because the purchaser likes and desires it. My point is that it should not be considered as an investment of any kind, but rather as an entertainment, like going to a movie. 3. While Flyer prices to a certain degree do reflect supply and demand, there are other forces at work and I was trying to identify a few. 4. While some individual link coupler steamers do perform very well, most would have a lot of difficulty pulling 20 cars. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1703	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Internet Access

>Tell your Congressman to vote against Internet Access Fees! Well now supposing you owned a restaurant, and you had calculated the cost of buying food, and paying your utilities, and paying your help, and paying for your capital equipment (building, kitchen, service-ware, etc.), and you knew how many people you could serve per day, so you knew how much to charge for meals, and give the customer a reasonable price, and still make a profit for yourself. Then something happens. The people start staying longer. They start doing their homework at your tables, and having meetings, and showing slides. Now, they are still paying just as much as they always have for their food, but prpblem is, you can't serve as many people with the amount of capital equipment that you have. In order to keep serving all your customers, you will have to spend $$ for a bigger restaurant. WHO is going to pay MORE for their food? Everybody, including the ones that are NOT using any extra services, OR just the people who ARE using extra services? That's how it is with the telephone company. As internet users stay logged on longer, the phone company needs MORE switchgear to serve the same number of customers! Who's gonna pay? Should all the non-internet users pay for my fun? Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/pictureTaking/index.shtml ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1704	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides, prices, TCA

This is OBVIOUSLY the wrong hobby for you......

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1705	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: Re: price guides, prices, TCA

Tom, and 'the gang', First, I feel a little like you're getting to hear Cicel & Ebert (No disrespect meant to them) reviewing "Toytrains, the Hobby" here, none the less, forward into the fray I go! (We *are* still having fun, aren't we Tom?) I think that there are actually at least two hobbies here; the 'Big-Time Collector' and the "Toytrain Operator", who really only have in common that they both use products made by the same companies. Now I'm not going to say either is wrong, as each is enjoying, in their own way, their hobby. I believe the collector is after the best cosmetic condition items he/she can find. Maybe the most variations of items too. Why else would a black flatcar vary in perceived value from $10 to $100 depending on which numbers are on it? The 314AW (which innocently started this debate) was a cantankerous oddity made only a short time, and few survived with their guts intact. These two things add up to rarity, just what the collector is searching for, and the operator could care less about! The collector market will drive up prices for excellent and better condition pieces, and pieces that are cosmetically good for recreations. In some ways this will also drive up the VG and less pieces, but not much, as there are more useful runners out there--313, 312, etc. etc. The operator is more interested in good running condition, ability to fit into his/her train 'scheme' and often times 'what I had/saw way back when'. We're more likely to look at a locomotive's running gear than what shape the decals/paint is in, we can always repaint, or re-decal! (Guess you can tell which way I go, most of the time!) I would pay more for a beat-up diesel with good axle bushings than one with a mint shell and bad chassis. But then that's relative too, I wondered why those eBay locos went so high, I was hoping to pick up some parts--the photos and descriptions were accurate! I think 'bidding fever hits sometimes! Being an amateur historian of technology, I appreciate the collector's view--it does give the rest of us a chance to see what these products looked like new, and helps preserve the ACG legacy. I even have a couple of 'in the box' sets--granted, I didn't get them originally to just save them, but did play carefully with them, but I don't now--I have similar pieces in less good condition that I can run without worrying about a derailment, etc. I consider these my 'accidental collection.' They're sets I acquired in the early 70s. The rest of my stuff, including my brothers' original 307 set is run whenever I can! And I have boxes of broken stuff to restore and run too. (Gee, do I have to mark them restored?)--Too many boxes, probably!! I've been told that the Excellent and better prices are going up, while the others are going down. Well, this works for me, the operators can buy more stuff, and the collectors can dabble in 'investments' if they so desire! While I realize that my trains do have some monetary value, I don't consider them part of my 'estate' They are my entertainment, if the bottom fell out of the hobby market tomorrow, I wouldn't be troubled (I'd probably be looking for an NP pass set--they look so cool!) That last comment also shows what drives me, I try to buy what I like, same as you probably. No matter which part of the hobby you're in, if that's how you purchase stuff, no matter what the market does, you will have stuff you appreciate. That can't be all bad, can it? Back to the price guides. That's what they are, guides only, and one does need to be somewhat familiar with the hobby to know when to believe them too! Like many tools, they are often misused (OK, when was the last time you used a screwdriver to pry something open!). I don't know about the 'old money, new money' situation, but the hobby does seem to be at a turning point right now. Whether this is a function of the economy or the aging of the participants I don't yet know. But I suspect you'd better hang on, the roller coaster is just starting! S' incerely, David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1706	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 2/21/1999
Subject: three new members

Hi guys: the mail out campaign is bearing fruit already -- we got three names from Dave Bailey's list for the modern prototype S group. They are Steve Connolly conmeyer@... , Ed Loizeau loizeau@... and Greg Elems gelems@... might want add them to your lists. cheers Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1707	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: variety

In response to Bill letter; You make some interesting points; however, if you look at the S modelers, the largest concentration model in the area of PRR, NYC, UP, and ATSF. In producing a product I would do my best to target something common to as many of those roads as possible. After all I hope the item sells......or maybe I'll just run them all on my layout. Well as for common prototypes Flyer sort of went the opposite now and then.....let's see 1 K-5 and the Reading had what 3 or 4 Atlantics that the model was based on and the New Haven electrics hmmm the GG-1 could well have been a better choice where numbers go. SHS is doing exactly what you say in wheelsets in order for hobby shops to sell to Hi Railers or Scale folks and the SW-9 went beyond that and offered the single unit or MU option handrail and pilot option. Beyond that options are expensive, maybe we could get the SW-9 with a choice of 6 shells included or maybe a decal set for all other roads having SW-9's on the roster, and maybe a Sn-3 set of power trucks in case someones wants a narrow gauge unit and maybe you model NASA do you want two units in the box MUed side by side for parallel running? Anyone modelling the Panama Railroad going to buy this opps we need the trucks adjustable out to 5 feet wide. And you are right there is nothing wrong with the FEC.......if ya model the strike years....we need a college student for an engineer and perhaps an exploding flat car to push ahead of the engine to check track. With all possible options available, nothing happens until someone buys one.....same as with any product. Gale Hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1708	From: michael prell	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: price guides

Bruce! You have missed the point COMPLETELY!!! Something that has SURVIVED FIFTY YEARS OF TOY LIFE as have so many of these wonderful items DESERVE BETTER! I do not pretend to be an EXPERT! Read what I said again! If you want to play the numbers game, then go right ahead! ---Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> wrote: > > From: Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> > > Mr. Prell: > Congratulations! Do you realize that you just put a price tag of > $400.00 on a 314AW? This is an engine, in excellent condition with > controller, that is worth about $175.00. For $400.00 I would expect AC > Gilbert's ashes with it! If you are both capable and willing to spend > 2k on a Lionel reproduction, more power to you. Realize that such an > engine would be plastic, equipped with a questionable mechanism, and > probably lettered for the Florida East Coast. Witness what they > (Lionel) did to the Santa Fe box car last year. About 15 years ago > Lionel advertised a Hudson engine lettered for the Wabash and Santa Fe > for about $350.00, as I recall. It was never produced. At that time, > one could obtain a 322, etc... AF Hudson for around $100-$125.00. > Please keep in mind the impact such random statements about value have > on the novice S gauger. If you have a 314AW that you feel is worth > $400.00, you'd better try to sell it at the next show in your area. > Best wishes, > > Bruce > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ta Da! See our new web site. http://www.onelist.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1709	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Digest Number 145

David Dewey says, > I believe the collector is after the best cosmetic condition items >he/she can find. Maybe the most variations of items too. Why else would a >black flatcar vary in perceived value from $10 to $100 depending on which >numbers are on it? The 314AW (which innocently started this debate) was a >cantankerous oddity made only a short time, and few survived with their guts >intact. Is it not true the short production of the 314AW was due primarily to Lionel suing Gilbert over the induction actuator and winning the suit. Also included as part of the settlement was that any authorized AF repair shop/dealer had to remove or otherwise disable the whistle mechanism from any 314AW they took in for repair, even if it was not the whistle that was being repaired? I have seen many more 314AW 's missing the whistle unit than with the unit. >These two things add up to rarity, just what the collector is >searching for, and the operator could care less about! The collector market >will drive up prices for excellent and better condition pieces, and pieces >that are cosmetically good for recreations. In some ways this will also Methinks there is not as much truly excellent stuff as is represented and sold as excellent or better. My experience is that toy dealers will pay much more for toy trains in any condition than will a train collector or an operator and they have done more to drive toy train prices up than train collectors. As a collector, I cringe when I read on this list of an operator "destoying" an excellent or better item by repainting, "re-roading", etc. Methinks it would be nice if the operators would post a detailed condition description of an item they are going to alter, even if replacing link couplers with knuckles. Therebefore, offering the item for trade of a same item in lessor finish condition. The catch of course is how does one see this item to verify the condition before trade, etc. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1710	From: L Montgomery	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: AF with Ceramic Village Buildings

Hi folks, As you may recall, I used "It's a Wonderful Life"-based ceramic buildings from Target with AF trains for my Christmas layout and the scale (and era) seemed perfect. I also used a few old Plasticville buildings with "snow" on the roofs. I have some photos that I scanned in that I can email to anyone who is interested in seeing how this worked out. I'm a Christmastime-only S guager with two young children and I'm running old AF equipment that has been in my family since my childhood. I didn't have time or resources to build a "real" model railroad for Christmas so using using "out of the box" structures was the only practical way to go. My S trains are packed away until next year but I want to thank all of you who helped me get this holiday project done. The trains ran great until my cast metal steamer had a "tire" come loose. Dieselization (a new Lionel GP-20) came early to Bedford Falls after that. The steamer has since been repaired so we're good to go next year. Monty --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1711	From: Allen, Douglass H NWO	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 143, for Paul Yorke

I was surprised and intrigued to find someone else who is both an S-Gauger and a stereographer. I thought I was the only one on the planet who engaged in both of these left field hobbies. I was the trade show chairman for the NSA convention when it was in Milwaukee. I have both NSA and NASG pins on my American Flyer cap. It's nice to find a soul mate.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1712	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 145: 314AW/modifying stuff

Well, thought I'd better re-assure Charles about my personal 'stand' on operating First, about the 314AW, Yes I've heard that the repair stations were requested to remove the whistles, and that big L had problems with it's manufacture, but I've also heard that all of this is 'bunk', so I remain neutral on it. I do know the mechanism seems to be very finicky, and I suspect was a servicing nightmare. My 314 came to me without the whistle, but with the relay. (Thanks to this group, it now has the whistle!--although not yet in place) Modifying stuff. Well, this discussion goes back into my income source! I do car restoration--not modification, although I've been known to add an oil line internally on an engine to make it more reliable. While I can appreciate some 'hot rodders' work, I still cringe to see antique car modified. So how does this carry over to my AF stuff? Well, for example, the Daylight engine. This one was made of parts from at least three guy's junk boxes. And I'm collecting junk to create a few more. My WP GPs I'm building are stripped shells and chassis from different boxes. The CZ dome observation will be made from a car with a big melt spot in it's roof. The list goes on! I love to find 'messed up' cars at train show, as they are perfect candidates for what I want to do. On the other hand, the 360-360 Alcos I picked up a few years ago for a Daylight set I wanted to make haven't been done yet. Why? Well the plated shells had a highly polished surface on them (partly because the tooling was new) and these shells are still clean, just no chrome left on them--and the chassis are the early 'red wheel' ones, so maybe these deserve restoring and re-chroming? I don't know, so I've set them aside for now. I would probably trade them to someone who wants to restore them for some 'common' Alcos that need everything done to them, as I still would like to have a Daylight Alco set. I guess I'm in the odd position of appreciating both sides of the hobby, but leaning towards the operating side. And I guess I proceed with my 'projects' by following the motto, "First, do no harm" or at least trying to follow it! OH, and if I seem to be rambling the last few days, I'm stuck home with the flu, and I'm just realizing my thought processes are less reliable than usual (and they weren't none to good before!<G>). S' David D. Life is just a test, if it weren't a test, we'd have been given more clearly defined instructions!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1713	From: Allen, Douglass H NWO	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 145, the 314 AW

20 cars behind a 314, 315 et. al.??? I'll believe that when I see it. I had what I thought was a formula for an unstoppable loco. I bought a scruffy 350, gutted it, striped it, discarded the E-unit and converted it to D.C. operation. In the space left over I added almost three pounds of lead weight. (I painted it as a circus engine.) I figured now I've got something that will pull anything. The first time on the track I had 20 cars on it. Gave it the power and all it did was sit and spin it's wheels. It didn't move until I got down to 15 cars and then it was spinning the wheels twice as fast as it was moving the train. Lesson Learned: all the weight one can cram in doesn't match pullmor tires. (next modification: put on pullmor tires.)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1714	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 145: 314AW/modifying stuff

Message text written by "David Dewey" > >Well, thought I'd better re-assure Charles about my personal 'stand' on >operating > First, about the 314AW, Yes I've heard that the repair stations were >requested to remove the whistles, and that big L had problems with it's >manufacture, but I've also heard that all of this is 'bunk', so I remain >neutral on it. Thanks David, hope your flu is leaving. I have no problem with rescheming good or very good stuff except if it is a rare item. I think the stuff I have seen on your page is cool. Like even at it's worst, an orange shell tank car should not be repainted or reschemed. Mainly though, if an item is in excellent or better, there likely is a collector who has a very good and would trade it. One of these days repaints as collectables if done properly will probably be okay in trains. Like in cars, how many would there be if they were not rebuilt. But even in cars the originals not rebuilt are most valuable. Seems to me there has been a story and reprints in TCA Quarterly concerning the lawsuit against Gilbert over the 314AW whistle. One of these days I'll try to find it. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1715	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 145, the 314 AW

In a message dated 2/22/99 12:17:19 PM, Douglass.H.Allen@... wrote: <<20 cars behind a 314, 315 et. al.??? I'll believe that when I see it>> Well, here are some suggestions. I sometimes have fun successfully putting into operation all-link freight trains in the 15 to 20 car range using any of the Hudsons, Pacifics, or Northerns. A few simple rules that help: (1) stick with 1948 or later style couplers, (2) have good track work, (3) adjust the links to the correct height above the rail top (1/32"), and (4) don't place die cast cars like the 644's, 636's, etc. towards the end of the train, but rather put them up front. Stick mostly with the plastic-bodied link coupler freight cars which are fairly light. Voila, you have it! Anyway, it's a fun way to pass an evening. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1716	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: (MPSM) ? SW-1s who had them?

Greetings from across the pond. Now that Don has teased us with the prospect of a early SW1 (two stage taper to hood & arched cab front windows), the question has to be asked which railroads had SW1s; early and later phases. According to 'Pinkepath' 661 SW1s were made. I'll compose a listing if you can send me details of which RRs had SW1s. Please state RR, #(s) and whether early or later phases. -- Kelvin White

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1717	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Roadnames selected; Reefers

<<<As a sideline grumble, I find it irritating that the manufacturers always make PRR, ATSF, NYC, UP and other well publicized roads and ignore much of the color available in the roads that were less noisy. I suppose that further illustrates the market tyranny imposed by costs of production and set up charges. >>> Interesting comment-------- Perhaps you don't include the Crown/Port Lines wood-sided reefers in your image of S "manufacturers" yet (granted, we certainly are not even close to the same level as SHS or AM !!!!), BUT with 10 different roadnames out there now, we did NONE of the names you mentioned until THIS month when we just released the PFEX reefer with the SP and UP heralds on them. Furthermore, we will GLADLY consider ANY wood-sided reefer paint and graphics scheme you care to suggest......you just need to supply us with a picture or some sort of image, or even an HO version of the car will be fine! We've already produced two roadnames based on a customer suggestion, and we have 2 or 3 more in the planning stages, based on the same. The one BIG hangup arises if you are looking for a private brandname car (e.g, the Hoods Milk car)...........permission needs to be obtained for cars like that..........Not that we can't get it, but it does cause delays. Furthermore, it may even prohibit the car if the rights either (a) cannot be obtained, or (b) are only granted based on a significant royalty that we cannot justify. Two good examples of (a) are Coors and Anheuser-Busch. Although we have the rights to the use of MANY different beer companies, those two will NOT grant us permission. On the beer car issue....what are individuals' reactions to beer reefers. I have found it both interesting and surprising that there are a number of customers who will buy every one of our cars EXCEPT beer cars. Is this a concern to many of you???? (BTW....URTX/Schlitz Beer is due this spring..........You heard it here first!!) Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1718	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: More on roadnames!!!

<< On another note, I was talking to one of the 'big wheels' about the TTOS cars, and was amazed to find that the paint scheme they are considering for next year is what the real car is currently painted, but it was given that paint scheme about 10 years ago. This gentleman would hardly believe me when I told him it wasn't the original scheme, or even appropriate for our 'lost in the '50s era' layouts. >> AHHHHH--- Here's another relevant issue !!! A good example----We produced the Stroh's Beer reefer..........BUT Strohs would ONLY grant permission to use the CURRENT logo on the car.....not the older logo which was appropriate to the era of the wood-sided reefer !!!! So what would YOU do ?????? We chose to run the car anyway, even though the logo was not prototypical to the car! Of course, now Strohs Beer is "history".........if you bought one, maybe it's now real collectible !!!!!! Call Greenberg !!!!!! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1719	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Roadnames selected; Reefers

Doug, Interesting how things go, I understand in the 40s and 50s many companies helped model companies with their logos, figuring their use was great 'free' publicity. Funny how you ran into the 'historic logo' problem. I understand that the die cast vehicle people have this problem too. It would seem that some corporate big wigs have their heads up their........ Um, this is a family group, you fill in the words! BTW, have noticed the reefers at meets, really look great! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1720	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides

A point to remember about price guides: the price set points are determined primarily by what items get at auction. As anyone should be aware, auctions exist primarily to create a feeding frenzy so that buyers will pay more than they would if they could sit and think about it. Thus the prices in price guides will tend to be on the high side. I feel however that they have a useful function. I have on occassion been asked to look at and possibly purchase a set that had been sitting in someone's attic for years and are being sold prior to a move or after a death. These people wouod have no idea of market value for their trains and no desire to set up at a train show or swap meet. I want to give people fair value and the price guide allows me to set a price point and justify it. Usually the price I quote is far more than the owner expected, although quite reasonable to me. I am not a dealer and don't move enough trains to have a working knowledge of the value of everything. The price guide gives me the reference point I need to be fair. Vic Bereskin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1721	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Fw: [S-Trains] Re: Roadnames selected; Reefers

>From: PortLines@... > ><<<As a sideline grumble, I find it irritating that the manufacturers always > >make PRR, ATSF, NYC, UP and other well publicized roads and ignore much of > >the color available in the roads that were less noisy. .....blah blah etc. >Interesting comment-------- Perhaps you don't include the Crown/Port Lines >wood-sided reefers in your image of S "manufacturers" yet (granted, we >certainly are not even close to the same level as SHS or AM !!!!), BUT with 10 >different roadnames out there now, we did NONE of the names you mentioned >until THIS month when we just released the PFEX reefer with the SP and UP >heralds on them. Furthermore, we will GLADLY consider ANY wood-sided reefer >paint and graphics scheme you care to suggest......you just need to supply us >with a picture or some sort of image, or even an HO version of the car will be >fine! We've already produced two roadnames based on a customer suggestion, >and we have 2 or 3 more in the planning stages, based on the same. The one >BIG hangup arises if you are looking for a private brandname car (e.g, the >Hoods Milk car)...........permission needs to be obtained for cars like >that..........Not that we can't get it, but it does cause delays. >Furthermore, it may even prohibit the car if the rights either (a) cannot be >obtained, or (b) are only granted based on a significant royalty that we >cannot justify. Two good examples of (a) are Coors and Anheuser-Busch. >Although we have the rights to the use of MANY different beer companies, those >two will NOT grant us permission. > On the beer car issue....what are individuals' reactions to beer reefers. I >have found it both interesting and surprising that there are a number of >customers who will buy every one of our cars EXCEPT beer cars. Is this a >concern to many of you???? (BTW....URTX/Schlitz Beer is due this >spring..........You heard it here first!!) >Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only >Port Lines Hobby Supply No, of course I didn't consider Port Lines....I was grumbling and it is not necessary to be even-handed nor complete when one is grumbling. My point was to raise the issue of diversity in models and stir a few of the brethren up enough to get away from their computers and do some modeling. The plan may not have worked. There has been some flaming and more cussing and discussing of Lionel. I have to say that Lionel is not very interesting to me. If they offer something I like, OK; if not, OK. I can't say I have any spiritual attachment to the older Flyer stuff, either. To me, it is all toy trains. I like them all, to an extent, but I don't worship any of them. I'm new to S after about 40 years away and I find the offerings of Crown/Port Lines, SHS and AM to be excellent. In fact, I have several of the Crown cars including the Stroh's. I grew up in Michigan and my private line, model railroad is based up there in the cold country. So, Stroh's has an emotional, double attachment for me. I have acquired some old and mostly beat up Flyer things. They will be (gasp) repainted, refurbished and reworked to look and act as well as the modern equipment in the lesser scales does. That is the fun of it for me. It is also always fun to visit someone else's collection or layout and see it through their eyes. If someone else's idea of fun in the hobby is to build an altar to original paint or cardboard boxes in E- condition, that is OK with me, too. This list is rich with a surprising amount of diversity of outlooks on a common model train size. That is what makes it so interesting. Look Out itS Old Bill Porter Again

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1722	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides

In a message dated 2/23/99 Someone writes: << A point to remember about price guides: the price set points are determined primarily by what items get at auction. As anyone should be aware, auctions exist primarily to create a feeding frenzy so that buyers will pay more than they would if they could sit and think about it. Thus the prices in price guides will tend to be on the high side. >> ????????????????????????????????? Where did this theory come from??? Nothing could be farther from the truth. If anything, the price guides are on the low side especially where it comes to Accessories and Rare items.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1723	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 2/22/1999
Subject: Re: price guides

Mike: Don't blow a gasket here. I didn't miss the point. Yes, Gilbert trains are wonderful toys that appeal to some of us. But because of that appeal, does that mean we should purchase them at any price? I feel that $400 is way out of line for the engine you mentioned. If that is the going price, I'll pass it up regardless of how much I may desire one. It is arbitrary statements like yours that escalate the prices of these old toys out of the reach of those that truly appreciate them and leave them horded by investors that feel they have a treasure. Because it has survived 50 years, does that make it valuable on its own merits? If it still runs and functions properly, I'll bet it wasn't played with much in its "youth". Further, by placing an astronomical price on an item, does that imply "deserves better"? These are inanimate toys, not our grandparents. My 1947 300 Atlantic with 628 log car, 633 B&O box car, and 630 caboose are priceless to me as they were a Christmas gift from my parents and my 1st AF trains. But how much are they really worth? Maybe $125-$150. As for your statement that a Lionel K-5 could bring 2K.... If that's playing the numbers game, as you state, so be it. Enjoy your trains Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1724	From: BenTrous@aol.com	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Turnout Throwbars

I am exorably creeping towards turnout assembly after months of part fabrication, bench work extension table raising and other diversions. I have a couple of questions: What are some recommended ways of fastening the points to the throw bar? My preferred method would be to use the circuit board material (copper foil adhered to some sort of insulated base already cut into strips) soldered to the points and insulating gap cut into the foil surface. However, I don't know where to find these tie strips. That is my second question. Are these strips still available in S and if so where? My second preferred method would be to use a metal (probably brass) tie bar which would then be fastened by some sort of pivot to the throw bar located in the plane of the ties. Ben Trousdale

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1725	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: Turnout Throwbars

Ben, Contact CLOVER HOUSE, BOX 62M, SEBASTOPOL, CA, 95473-0062, they have exactly what you need There ad is placed monthly in Model Railroader magazine. 'S', Tom davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1726	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: One step forward...

Greetings, When I was out in Denver I stopped at Caboose Hobbies in my vain quest for S gauge anything. I found an American Models Santa Fe bay window caboose kit to go with my Santa Fe freight train, that is the good news. When I returned home in Nebraska, I discovered that the kit had scale wheels, very small couplers and.... The kit was missing the floor/frame piece so I cannot assemble it. Sooo... Since I want this type of caboose (returning it is out because AM is sold out of the SF caboose) I probably will call AM in the next few days to get a new floor, Hi-rail trucks and operating couplers. Ah, the joy of finding the car that you were looking for:) Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1727	From: DBaker221@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: 751 Log Loader footprint

The footprint of the AF 751 Log Loader is 9" wide by 8.5" deep. My wife gave me one of these for Christmas in '92 -- in a factory sealed box. Now, if she could only find a coal loader.... Dave Baker

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1728	From: michael prell	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides

Trains16, Sorry about the negative tirade in response to your comments about price guides. I got caught between mood-swings. Diabetes does that sometimes! Your points are well taken. Personally, my 314 is priceless. I know its history and I know where it could have wound up. I tend at times not to live in the real world, which sometimes gets me into trouble with those who really do know what they're talking about! One thing that I hope that we as a collective group of S-gauge people can agree on is that we are the keepers of the past. We insure that these wonderful "toys" continue to exist. The saying that goes, "They just don't make 'em like that any more" is the touchstone of what we are really all about, that being to keep 'em around for future generations. There I go again! Getting carried away. Sorry. ---Trains16@... wrote: > > From: Trains16@... > > In a message dated 2/23/99 Someone writes: > > << A point to remember about price guides: the price set points are determined > primarily by what items get at auction. As anyone should be aware, auctions > exist primarily to create a feeding frenzy so that buyers will pay more than > they would if they could sit and think about it. Thus the prices in price > guides will tend to be on the high side. >> > > ????????????????????????????????? Where did this theory come from??? > Nothing could be farther from the truth. If anything, the price guides are on > the low side especially where it comes to Accessories and Rare items. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ta Da! See our new web site. http://www.onelist.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1729	From: Chasbo86@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides

Your message this morning reminded me of the old days with trains. About thirty-five or forty years ago we lived in York pa. And the Rotary(I think) had train races every christmas time in the high school gym on the floor. They would set up two identical ovals for American Flyer and two for Lionel. they were about twenty feet long. We would have about a hundred kids bring their trains( required to have an engine and three cars) and race. My two boys never won but they wouldn't miss it. I still have their trains running in my basement.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1730	From: michael prell	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides

Friend, you have made my day! When I think back to the good old days, I,m drawn to one particular Christmas. I was about seven or eight at the time; a typical self- cenetered brat of a kid. The time was about 11pm and my Mom and I were on our way to Holy Family Church in Fairmount (Near Syracuse) for Midnight Mass. My Dad was busy setting things up on a 4X8 foot train board. When we returned home, Dad was sound asleep under the propped up board and poor little me was devistated. I knew for sure that Christmas was about to be ruined! Imagine my complete surprise and delight when, six hours later, I came down stairs to find the Christmas tree aglow and the board up and running with a brand new American Flyer Talking Station featured as the main event! I didn't appreciate it until years later that my Dad had pulled off a minor mirical. He had put in a 12 hout shift at Superior Beverage, a local soda company, come home, attended our yearly Christmas family get together at my Grandmother's home, and still had the strength left to complete this project. About two years ago, while viewing several old 8MM black & white films that belonged to my Mom, I happened across about fifty feet of footage that showed a Christmas tree followed by a shot of a kid playing with his trains on the board described above. The talking Station still works! It's memories such as this that we're in charge of! They are priceless, as are the trains that go with them! ---Chasbo86@... wrote: > > From: Chasbo86@... > > Your message this morning reminded me of the old days with trains. About > thirty-five or forty years ago we lived in York pa. And the Rotary(I think) > had train races every christmas time in the high school gym on the floor. They > would set up two identical ovals for American Flyer and two for Lionel. they > were about twenty feet long. We would have about a hundred kids bring their > trains( required to have an engine and three cars) and race. > My two boys never won but they wouldn't miss it. I still have their trains > running in my basement. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > If you like the colors orange and blue, you will like our new web site! > http://www.onelist.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1731	From: michael prell	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides

Friend, you have made my day! When I think back to the good old days, I,m drawn to one particular Christmas. I was about seven or eight at the time; a typical self- cenetered brat of a kid. The time was about 11pm and my Mom and I were on our way to Holy Family Church in Fairmount (Near Syracuse) for Midnight Mass. My Dad was busy setting things up on a 4X8 foot train board. When we returned home, Dad was sound asleep under the propped up board and poor little me was devistated. I knew for sure that Christmas was about to be ruined! Imagine my complete surprise and delight when, six hours later, I came down stairs to find the Christmas tree aglow and the board up and running with a brand new American Flyer Talking Station featured as the main event! I didn't appreciate it until years later that my Dad had pulled off a minor mirical. He had put in a 12 hout shift at Superior Beverage, a local soda company, come home, attended our yearly Christmas family get together at my Grandmother's home, and still had the strength left to complete this project. About two years ago, while viewing several old 8MM black & white films that belonged to my Mom, I happened across about fifty feet of footage that showed a Christmas tree followed by a shot of a kid playing with his trains on the board described above. The talking Station still works! It's memories such as this that we're in charge of! They are priceless, as are the trains that go with them! ---Chasbo86@... wrote: > > From: Chasbo86@... > > Your message this morning reminded me of the old days with trains. About > thirty-five or forty years ago we lived in York pa. And the Rotary(I think) > had train races every christmas time in the high school gym on the floor. They > would set up two identical ovals for American Flyer and two for Lionel. they > were about twenty feet long. We would have about a hundred kids bring their > trains( required to have an engine and three cars) and race. > My two boys never won but they wouldn't miss it. I still have their trains > running in my basement. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > If you like the colors orange and blue, you will like our new web site! > http://www.onelist.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1732	From: AC4400W@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: 1999 TCA car

Hello Again; This is Wayne Hills again. I want to thank you all for your support. I would also like to state that my intention here is to try and get the TCA to at least admit their wrong doing. I found it very ironic that the issue of their magazine which had my artwork on the cover also contained a lengthy editorial about preserving the integrity of the TCA! While I am not a member, I have admired some of the yearly offerings of S gauge cars from the TCA. Even though I am a "scale" guy, I still have all of the AG from my childhood, and have actually acquired more AF since the trains were packed away than we had when we had a layout. I don't want this to get to the point that the TCA decides not to produce any more S cars; the S manufacturers need those big orders! I just want them to 'fess up to their misdeeds and let their members know what happened. The members at least deserve that much. So if you ordered the car (or were thinking of doing so) to complete your TCA car collection, it's OK with me if you buy one. If you want to protest what happened, then how about ordering the car "under protest" and tell them you're not happy with the double standard of conduct they've set up? Thanks again. If I hear anything from the TCA about all this, I'll let you all know how it turns out. Sincerely, Wayne Hills

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1733	From: kelvin white	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: USRA double sheath boxcar?

Page 23 of Jan/Feb 99 S gaugian has a photograph of a MKT 40ft double sheath boxcar made by Jerry Brewer of Houston Texas. The dreadnought ends are the same as the SHS USRA boxcars - Is this model a conversion of a SHS model or a total scratch build. Is the model correct to prototype? If its a conversion - it looks relatively easy....A possible future model from SHS? -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1734	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: The Real Reason For Pricers

I love reading all the divergent points of view recently. It just proves what a passionate group we S-gaugers are. But it appears to me that everyone has missed the whole point in using price guides such as Greenberg's. Whether one thinks the prices are valid or not, the reason for referencing them is to convince your spouse that you're making a wise investment, even though you have absolutely no intention of ever selling the pieces. It's merely a method of justification to spend the money. ;-) YourS, John Eichmann RMHR Boise, Idaho (Thanks, David)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1735	From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: The Real Reason for Pricers

You are absolutely correct John, but let me inform you that some of us read these messages in the company of our wives! OH BOY TRAINS!! ...Herky (1950) Obie Bell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1736	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: NASG Badges

Do we get a flat car also? Nice photo of tracks and such. -------------- Curt Johnson ------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1737	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: MPSM

Apologies if there are multiple posts. Since my provider sends some e-mail via a mirror site, I've had trouble getting Onelist to recognize me as subscribed. To Alex: I'm interested in joining the MPSM. Thanks for the condensed newsletter. To all, just a few ideas based on the newsletter content: A while back , I sent Tom Hodgson a C40-8W shell., with the suggestion that he produce these in S. My idea was that these could be powered by the American Models SD-60 chassis. (I know this is not totally correct, but it's a solution which would satisfy most modelers. The rest of us could do a little adjusting.) When no SD-60 appeared, he dropped this idea. Perhaps it's time to encourage him to work on this. As for another option, 3rd Rail already does GEs in O gauge, so an S scale version would be the next logical step for them, if they sense a demand. In plastic, it seems that the time might be right for someone to go ahead with an SD-40-2 project; a lot of the publicity groundwork has already been laid. And, while it's almost certainly a vain hope, a successful SD-40-2 could possibly convince the powers-that-be at Lionel to stop listening to whomever has been giving them (bad) advice. Anyway, please let me know what's happening. Thanks. Stan Stokrocki sscale@... Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1738	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: MPSM

The post from sscale@... was sent by Stan Stokrocki. Somehow, my signature got dropped. I'll get this system down eventually. Stan Stokrocki sscale@... Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1739	From: Richard Snook	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Hodgson method??

Hi de Hi Some mentions have been made to a "method" employed by Tom Hodgson in creating models. Could someone bring me up to speed with this!!! :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1740	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Tom Hodgson

Hodgson uses mold material which shrinks a known amount under controlled conditions. Since the shrinkage is directed away from the cavity, this actually has the effect of "growing" the mold larger. By using the right combination of materials in multiple steps, he can enlarge an HO shell to S scale. Of course, the shrinkage is not 100% even, which leads to some distortion in shells made this way. Stan Stan Stokrocki

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1741	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 2/23/1999
Subject: Re: Price Guides

Trains16@... wrote: > From: Trains16@... > > If anything, the price guides are on > the low side especially where it comes to Accessories and Rare items. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I agree that price guides tend to be on the low side, but I would also include most items, especially the "highly desirable", but not quite "rare" items. The items usually go for prices within the stated ranges, but it is the condition that gets fudged on. I have rarely seen true good condition pieces go for good condition prices, usually always higher. As an example, recently saw a 342 DC at a train show with some partial glossy black repaint, including covering the tender and cab lettering. I only knew it was a 342DC from its two tender wires, its boiler smoke unit and its couplers. The dealer was asking $150, which is the cheapest I have ever seen an 0-8-0 going for. The book said $90 for good condition. It had a missing handrail and while it worked and had no broken details or rust, I wouldn't give it higher than a good condition, considering the mutilation of the paint job. I offered $125 and eventually got it for $140. I still think I got a fair deal even though it turned out to have a broken drive tire when I got it home and looked more closely. All the other 0-8-0's I have seen have been going for $240-290, and they were in Very good condition at best. Mark Preman has an 0-8-0 in excellent condition for $375 where the top book value for 98 was $290. I know 99 is a little higher, but I can't locate my new book right now. The problem is that highly desirable items like the 0-8-0's are finding their way into the collections of people like me who probably keep them until they are sold by the executors of our estates, which means the supply is way down, so the price goes up. Even the common items are usually going for higher than book value though. When is the last time you saw an Atlantic in Good condition go for $15? If I am paying too much, somebody please tell me! :-) -- Dale Smith Pacifica, California

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1742	From: Rodney.Booth@xxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: AF 310

I bought a 310 engine with the draw bar of the tender not hooked to the engine. Evidently there is a piece missing from the engine, because I see no way to hook it up. Has anyone know how this particular tender hooks to the engine? Rodney

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1743	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Prices & Collecting -The dark side

I have never been in disagreement with a seller over the price of a Train or Accessory- but I often disagree on the interpretation of the condition of an item. A seller may think a 314 is worth $400.00 and be correct that $400.00 is a reasonable asking price for a 314- if the condition warrants it. An item that has a TCA E or E+ rating by the seller is OFTEN overstated. I have purchased through the mail items that were rated E+ and had deep scratches, missing steps, missing paint etc. It was not misinterpretation, it was attempted fraud. Also, when I was new at this game, at TCA York meets, I was lied to, cheated, and "played for a fool" by fellow members until I learned what to look for in replacement parts, repaint, etc. The term "it's all original" is used loosely at times. There are plenty of cheats mixed in with the goodguys- at all type of meets. At TCA functions, you swim with the sharks- many members buy tables for all the right reasons, and some buy them to unload their junk at top dollar to the foolish. Collecting can be a sticky endeavor. The dark side of our hobby involves individuals that are compulsive - obsessive. The need to collect for the sake of collecting.........only mint in the box can give fleeting satisfaction until their on to the next object......collect and put it away and look at it again only when they are thinking about selling it..... the joy in having what others can not afford- possibly prototypes that no one else has..........to buy trains and never put them on the track..... To try to fill emptiness in themselves my surrounding themselves with objects that give them fleeting happiness. Joy can be found in creating worlds with these TOYS, building and modeling so when little boys and girls see your creations and layouts they light up with expressions of amazement. The simple fun of building and creating and making that little world come alive with colorful trains. To share that FUN. To remember how to PLAY. Beanie Babies are a prime example how we teach our children how to collect. On national TV I saw a middle aged woman sell a child a four year old toy that originally costs $5.00 . The child was at a Beanie convention and the woman charged the 8yr. old $90.00 because it was "rare". The anchor woman on the morning news program was simply reporting how "hot" the collectible was. The values of the parent that took the child to the show were not the issue, the values of the seller that recieved $90.00 from the child were not the issue, the issue was the value of the object. And the TOY?, I think it's safe to assume that a parent that buys a child a $90.00 Beanie would not encourage the child to play with it. Its too collectible.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1744	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Re: NASG Badges

Hi Folks, Curtis Johnson <seedybear@...> wrote: >Do we get a flat car also? >Nice photo of tracks and such. I took the photo when I saw NASG Clearinghouse Committee Chairman Bill Mark with his new NASG badge. I was impressed at how good the badge looked in person. The line drawings in the Dispatch didn't do the badge much justice. I decided the badge might photograph better on an S gauge flatcar than on Bill's chest. No offense, Bill. So, no Curtis. You don't get the flatcar! LOL! Thanks for the compliment on the photo. The layout belongs to Bill Fuhrman of the Connecticut S Gaugers <http://trainweb.org/csg/fuhrman.html>. Craig S. O'Connell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1745	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Re: AF 310

Rodney.Booth@... wrote: > > From: <Rodney.Booth@...> > > I bought a 310 engine with the draw bar of the tender not hooked to the > engine. Evidently there is a piece missing from the engine, because I see > no way to hook it up. Has anyone know how this particular tender hooks to > the engine? > Rodney Yes. The older 310s had a sheet metal bracket acroess the back of the cab. The die casting was peened over the holes in the bracket to hold it in place. This is not easy to repair if you don't have the bracket. If you have the bracket it can be repaired with epoxy, which is preferable to trying to repeen 50 year old brittle die cast zinc. If this is not a really valuable collector piece I recommend getting a newer style tender drawbar which has the front end connected to the trailing truck pivot screw for a repair part. You may have to cut the tall vertical tab off the trailing truck (or get a newer style trailing truck without the tab) to clear the new drawbar. You will also have to "unrivet" the existing drawbar and rerivet the new drawbar to the tender truck. When screwing the new drawbar to the engine you may have to replace the screw also because tightening the screw may bind the truck from swiveling. You might have gotten a mix of components, newer style drawbar tender with old style engine, or vice versa. If you can find someone with a Tom Barker repair manual there are good exploded parts drawings in there of ewhat you will need. I think these parts should be readily available from most parts dealers. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1746	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Digest Number 147

Wayne Hills says, >I want to thank you all for your support. I would also >like to state that my intention here is to try and get the TCA to at least >admit their wrong doing. I found it very ironic that the issue of their magazine which >had my artwork on the cover also contained a lengthy editorial about preserving the >integrity of the TCA! While I am not a member, I have admired some of the >yearly offerings Wayne, This all is just my opinion. I am not a lawyer and am not telling you what you should do. If TCA admits to wrongdoing are they not then leaving themselves open to suit? Thus, they are not going to admit anything to anyone unless you push them, hard. Don't forget, hobby or not, the TCA is a business and your design work is a business, with legal controls. Forget ethics (just ask you know who). Should there not be a basic letter of notification of design infringement sent them? Because I am doing some self appointed work involving the printing of old photos and possibly the reproduction of an item done by Disney Studios (I had to write and ask them if it was their work), because I have a nephew who is a Professional Commercial Photographer I have lately been asking advice on copyrights, etc. 1. Why did the TCA or whoever search out Chevron to ask permission of your design? 2. "Cause it is a big company and they have trademarks and copyrights" 3. Did you or your partner for you sign a contract granting TCA the exclusive ownership of your design work? 4. Did Chevron grant the TCA the right to use their logo? 5. Did Chevron believe TCA owned the design submitted for use? 6. Did, because of contracts or agreements, TCA own the design? 7. There are some basic contracts and agreements available which you should begin using when you do design work for anyone. 8. When you make a design, it is yours and you do not necessarily have to have it copyrighted. It is copyrighted by the fact you have done it, but you gotta prove it and the time you did it. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1747	From: John Foley	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Badges

_____________________ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 20:39:04 -0500 From: Curtis Johnson <seedybear@...> Subject: NASG Badges Do we get a flat car also? Nice photo of tracks and such. -------------- Curt Johnson ------------------ Hi Curt HA!! HA!! Your Pal John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1748	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Artwork Copyright

Wayne Hills is understandably upset about the TCA pirating his artwork for the cover of their publication. While he is probably aware of the U.S. Copyright Act (Title 17, U.S. Code), I thought it might not be a bad idea to post portions of the law for you other designers out there. Any artwork (including logos) is a protected work, as a "pictorial, graphic" work, and "it is illegal for anyone to violate any of the rights provided by the Act to the owner of the copyright." While Wayne may not have officially registered his artwork with the Library of Congress and may not have attached the "circle C" in its design, the Copyright Office clearly states: "The way in which copyright protection is secured under the present law is frequently misunderstood. No publication or registration or other action in the Copyright Office is required to secure copyright. . . .Copyright is secured AUTOMATICALLY when the work is created, and a work is 'created' when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time." In other words, Wayne owned all rights to this artwork when he committed the design to paper. Registration with the Copyright Office helps in the event of litigation, but it is not required. Indeed, the law reads that every time you pen a letter to your Aunt Mary, that is a copyrighted work, whether you choose to register it or not. It is also not necessary to mark the work with the "circle C" or the words "copyright." It's clear that TCA (which is a fine organization) is not only guilty of an ethical violation, but it broke the law. I agree that an apology to Wayne is in order. For more information about the U.S. Copyright Act, visit the Copyright Office Homepage at http://lcweb.loc.gov/copyright/ John Eichmann President, Idaho Chapter International Publishing Management Association RMHR Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1749	From: ChooChoo64@aol.com	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Web Sites ?

Hi All, New here. Looking for all who have web sites : Send Web Address to me. ChooChoo64 @... Thanks, ###############WOOOOOO! WOOOOOOO!! ################### choochoo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1750	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: log loader

Thanks for the footprint dimensions, but better yet for the precedent of your wife's great shopping. Now I can share that (somehow in a subtle way) with mine!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1751	From: Jarcho	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: AF 310

Rodney: The simplest and strongest way to repair your 310 is: 1 obtain a replacement cab strap from a parts dealer. This is a strip of metal that goes under the bottom ot the cab and has a screw hole in the center where a screw connects the drawbar to the loco. 2. The new part will have small holes at each end. There should be two dimples in the cab bottom that went thru these holes in the old strap. Drill small diameter holes into the cab bottom at these locations and use two small screws to hold the new strap in place. Use a # PA4939 shouldered screw to attach the drawbar to the cab. If you don't trust your ability to do this job, get a friend to help. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1752	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: misc.

Hi Guy"S"; Those interested in the "Flying Yankee" pick up the premiere issue of "Trains Classic". The article starts on page 58. I just got home with this mag. Haven't had a chance to read it yet. Next subject; Diecast cars and trucks. Die cast, racing car haulers. Tractor trailers 45 box maybe. I haven't broken the seals to open and check demensions. It says 1/64 scale on the box. I believe it said racing minitures on the box. Anyway, are modern trucks with promotional decals. I did not have something with me to write down the details. Sorry about that. I am thinking of buying the lot for resale for "S" guagers. My selling price to you would be $18.00. This includes shipping. Some of you may want to by one of each for your 1/64" race track on your layout. If there is enough interest I will get them. Also I can get diecast cars in 1/64 scale various cars at various prices. These can be modern or oldies. Also other cars that appear 1/64 scale but not mentioned on the box. I personaly do not mind these. Your visitor is not going to get out a scale rule to check. Please reply if any of you are interested in purchasing. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1753	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Prices of trains

Hi Again; In regards to fraudlent practices. I also have run into this problem. A hobby shop owner (tca member) Tried to sell me AF Switch throws. He said they were like new, and was asking premium dollar. I needed these because I have a few switches without the electric throws. So he searched for them and came up with them after a long wait. Well, the insulation on wires were burnt to a crisp. He considered the wires are not part of the switch. They go into a sealed unit and are soldered. Which very much makes them part of the switch. Considering there might be a problem inside the switch. I said no thanks. This is a minor situation of course. I to have found many over priced items based on condition. In the infancy of TCA, The officers would throw out members that sell items that are not rated properly. Or so I was told. How come they keep these guys in their roster? Perhaps not enough people complain about these dealers. If at all. If they get complaints, does the TCA follow up on it. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1754	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: factory sealed Log Loader

I already deleted your note, and now don't remember if you mentioned this or not. Did you open the box and use the loader? If so, that must have been a memorable moment.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1755	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: SW-1

GN SW-1's #'s 75,76 1939 77-79 1941 80-83 1950 Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/pictureTaking/index.shtml ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1756	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Re: 310 loco

In a message dated 2/24/99 8:14:02 PM, you wrote: <<I bought a 310 engine with the draw bar of the tender not hooked to the engine. Evidently there is a piece missing from the engine, because I see no way to hook it up. Has anyone know how this particular tender hooks to the engine? Rodney >> We carry the replacement drawbar strap that you are missing on your loco. Doug We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 50-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 20+ page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1757	From: DBaker221@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: More On The Factory Sealed 751 Log Loader

They say that Christmas is for kids -- and in 1992 I briefly rejoined their ranks. The log loader was a Christmas present from my wife and daughter that year. It was wrapped up in typical holiday fashion -- red and green paper with a big ribbon. I had no idea what it was. I had only gotten back into trains that Fall, when my daughter had asked my mother if Dad had electric trains when he was a kid. If so, does he still have them? Mom's response: "He's got everything he ever owned. Of course he has them!" (I'm something of a pack rat...) So, as I removed the cheerfully decorated wrapping paper, revealing, in crisp black letters, "AC Gilbert, New Haven, Conn" emblazoned on the side of the heavy cardboard carton, it dawned on me that this was meant to have happened over four decades before -- on Christmas, 1948. With video camera rolling, I used a sharp Exacto knife to carefully open the box, being careful not to damage it. The 751 was packed with lots of very brittle brown paper. The instruction sheet was perfect with a somewhat glossy finish. A small strip of newsprint paper with a some supplemental instructions in mimeographed purple ink -- you know, like we had in elementary school assignments in the 50's -- was also present. The log loader itself was incredible -- colors brilliant, no scratches. The induction style motor in the yellow house was factory fresh -- no dust. The heavy bakelite roof was like a big piece of red candy. During the next year I built my first layout since the one I had back in Baltimore in the 1950's. I took the 751 back to the train store for a pre- operational checkup -- there was no way I was going to operate somehing that had never had power applied to it in forty plus years of existence. (While I was there I found a nice 717 log car.) Then we took it back home and set it up on the layout to try it out. The sound of the mechanism that lifts the logs is not subtle! Probably a little like the electric chair at Sing Sing... But the induction motor that runs the log up and over the log car was a soft and pleasing hum. Each log dropped onto the waiting 717 with a satisfying "ker-clink". (I videoed this operation from every angle, and used my favorite locomotive to pull the train away -- a very clean 350 Royal Blue Pacific that I received at age 2, on Christmas morning, 1948 -- a present from my grandfather.) So that's the story of the log loader. I have it in my office so it can be seen, and to provide me with endless opportunity to spread the gospel of model railroading -- S style! Dave Baker DBaker221@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1758	From: Allen Evans	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: A Little of that 751 Now Lives In All of Us

Dave - - Your account was of such expression that it gave me goosebumps to read and follow along. Thanks for sharing that experience.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1759	From: A50flyer@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: 1999 TCA car

wayne , I know gordon wilson tca pres. elect. I"ll give him a call --- I urged him over a year ago to give the S guys a quality car , no more lazy L products. he has done this for us. please support this car. join TCA . tell jerry hi. marty wik

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1760	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: The Factory Sealed 751 & Another story

You OPENED it?????? AAAAAUGH!!!!! Don't you know you were supposed to have X-ray prints made from all sides, top and bottom, so you could take them to train shows and show off your prize???? Well, *someone* had to say it!!<G> What a neat story! Thanks for sharing it. I had a similar, but not quite identical experience Christmas 1977. We were able to have Christmas at my Parent's house, with my AF running under the tree, and all my Brothers and Sister and their families. My brother handed me one large and heavy package. Now we were all pretty much living a la Goodwill then (Going to school, getting started, etc. remember?) and I wondered what I was getting this year--last year was some handcrafts stuff. Hmm, I was told to "be careful taking the paper off!" OK. Hmm so far just a brown cardboard box. Wait a minute, it says "American Flyer" on it!!!! Oh my gosh!!!! Red and White boxes inside!!! They have train cars in them!!!! Wow!! There's a locomotive---wow a 326!!!!! It still has a 'do not turn wheels' tag on it!!!! Wow!! a Moe & Joe!! The complete '57 set, except for the caboose (box was there, but not the car). My brother had found this gem in the Marin County flea market for me. Yes, it had been opened, but never run! And knowing their situation, I'm sure less than a $20 bill crossed palms (not that that matters a hoot). It actually took a few days for the uniqueness of this to settle in. As a toddler, I had watched them open their AF (now mine) but I'd never had that Christmas morning experience until then. (I had never told my parents that the HO set they gave me when I was about ten was a let down--it wasn't AF! it never ran right on our crooked floors!--besides, I'd found it hiding under a chest of drawers a month before, still in the store bag [another early learned lesson--don't go looking for you Christmas presents early, it spoils the day!]) Hmm, think I'm hitting on why some us can't give up our trains! So, What's your neat memory?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1761	From: Allen, Douglass H NWO	Date: 2/25/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 148, prices & collecting, the dark s ide.

RE: McCarron. I have heard the collecting psychology, not just of trains, compared to magpies who collect pieces of broken mirrors and other bright shiny objects. Come to think of it there may be more than a grain of truth to that if one fesses up. Everyone has different motivation for collecting. I've heard some say they want "one of everything". For me that is antithetical. I once counted in Greenberg's some 100 freight cars by Gilbert which I don't have and don't want; but of the things I really like, one is nowhere near enough. I have 26 of the 24225, and I'm not satisfied yet. The most bewildering thing to me is why two otherwise identical cars differ in price by a factor of ten only because they have different numbers on them. These are trains not stamps! Oh well, you name it and someone collects it. Did you know there is an international organization of swizzle stick collectors? It's true; I couldn't make that up! Pardon my rambling pomposity.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1762	From: Scott Holm	Date: 2/25/1999
Subject: Paint colors

Does anyone know a brand name and color within that brand that matches the red of the 650 passenger cars or the 718 mail car?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1763	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/25/1999
Subject: S Scale in the Chicago area.

I hope this does not sound too strange, guys. Last September when I was in Elmhurst for the RITS meet, local modelers told me there were no S Scale layouts in the Chicago area that one could visit. This doesn't sound right, can someone update me. I know there is a high level of AF and other hi-rail activity, but no place I could take my stuff to run, from what I was told. Don't laugh too laud at me, I could sure use the info, hope to return soon.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1764	From: michael prell	Date: 2/25/1999
Subject: Story of a Born Again S'er!

We all have out tales of how we either got introduced, or reintroduced to the Wonderful World of American Flyer. I hope that this short (???) narrative might be of interest. About 16 years ago we moved from a small college town in Upstate New York called Potsdam, to our present home north of Watertown, N.Y. Now, when one moves, one usually thinks that he has remembered to pack everything into the moving van and that nothing should ever be left behind! Right? My advice to anyone about to do so is to tripple check each and every room and crawl space that you can think of and then check again. Yup! About a month after we settled in, I got to thinking about my old AF trains and asked my wife if she'd seen the old gray trunk which housed them. Her report was negative, so the next thing I did was to call the "nice lady" who had purchased our home. "Oh ya! The gray trunk with the trains! Yes. It's here!" "Great! We'll be up in the morning to pick it up!" (A brief moment of silence, which should have tipped me off) "Ya! O.k. It'll be here!" It was there alright! Actually it was in two boxes and the trunk and it sat outside in the rain. My engines, cars, talking station...You name it. All of my stuff was trashed! That "nice lady" had two "nice" kids who decided to play! That "nice lady" is lucky to be alive! Four years later, I met a local gentleman, whose name I won't mention to protect his privacy, learned of what had happened to my treasure. His first question was to ask if I still had the stuff. as luck would have it, my answer was yes. It was then I learned that just about any part (original or reproduction) could be had of I was interested. It wasn't long after that I placed my first parts order to Leviton's. My 302 was the first to be "restored" followed by my Royal Blue, which finally got back its linkage. (Something it lost when my sainted Mother gave it away on me. But that's another story) Anyway, that's how this Born Again S'er got re-started. I don't pretend to be a huge collector, or operator, but I'm having a ball with the stuff I've managed to obtain. Reading what you folks have to say has been most enjoyable. Thanks for your memories.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1765	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 2/25/1999
Subject: Thursday night report

The PPSSW meeting tonight completed the elevation of the Benn Central. Armed with three cordless drill/screwdrivers and determination, the BC was raised to about 45 inches off the floor. To make sure the job was a success, we all leaned on it and told stories that started with "now this is no lie"... We found the the layout supported the club BS sessions quite well. Trains later. Bill, send me your address, I have the parts ready to ship but I lost your address. Ken Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1766	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Dave Brannock

Would you please send another note with your new email address. Thanks. I think you wrote in to S-Trains once already but I lost that message. I hope your move went well. I was wondering if you could provide me the names and phone numbers of some of the train buffs you got to know in the Tampa area. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1767	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: 751 footprint

Do the dimensions 8 5/8" across by 11 3/4" deep include the overhang or just the actual foot print of the base on someone's train platform. If the 11 3/4" includes the overhang, what is the depth of just the base. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1768	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Chicaog Area Scale Layouts

> > I hope this does not sound too strange, guys. Last September when I was > in Elmhurst for the RITS meet, local modelers told me there were no S > Scale layouts in the Chicago area that one could visit. This doesn't > sound right, can someone update me. I know there is a high level of AF > and other hi-rail activity, but no place I could take my stuff to run, > from what I was told. Don't laugh too laud at me, I could sure use the > info, hope to return soon. Sad but essentially true. There is an active S-Gauge group (Chicagoland Association of S-Gaugers) and two module groups (CHASM - standard gauge) and CLANG (narrow gauge). Nevertheless, we have had a hard time organizing layout tours for the last two S-fests. My hi-rail layout was on last year's tour, but that was it. A couple of scale layouts ended up being unavailable. On possibility - Don Heimburger (S-Gaugian) maintains a small scale layout at his Scenery Unlimited site in Forest Park, IL. Call and make an appointment. At the very least, you'll get to look over his scale supplies. I believe he has an April open house planned.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1769	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Re: A.F. 293 tender

Hey, all you fixer uppers and pack rats. I just got my hands on a beautiful 293 that has no tender. It's the only one I have seen with the 4 prong plug in connection. This loco is in such great shape that the commutator face shows almost no sign of ever being used. It's my guess that the tender got sent somewhere for e-unit repair at some long ago time and never found it's way home. In any case I need a complete tender for it. A hard wired one is fine, I will rewire it to the male plug. Cosmetic condition isn't important as long as it is intact. (frame, shell, e-unit and trucks). Wheels, coal pusher, markers etc. not important. Thanks in advance to anyone that can help. Please e-mail me if you know of one...Thanks Steve Blackburn TCA, NASG Boise, Idaho RMHR

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1770	From: John Foley	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Unigue switcher

Hi Folks I found a really unigue switcher on the web today. It's a Great Northern loco. I know what the GN say's it is. DO YOU? Click on it and let us know. hhtp;//gelwood.el.wny.org/other/gn/gn187.jpg John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1771	From: John Foley	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Unigue switcher

>Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 12:19:05 -0800 >To: S-trains >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: Unigue switcher OOPS > >Hi Folks OPPS try this instead sorry. > > I found a really unigue switcher on the web today. >It's a Great Northern loco. I know what the GN say's it >is. DO YOU? Click on it and let us know. > > http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/gn/gn187.jpg > > John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1772	From: John Eichmann (JOHN EICHMANN)	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Painting Hudson

Forwarded from AL BABBITT: >>> OK, guys and gals, I just stripped my 321 Hudson down to bare metal (I'll pause so you can pick up your chins from the floor), and I'm looking for tips and suggestions on painting it. I need your input on colors (gloss or flat black, dark gray, etc.), type of paint (spray can, Floquil, airbushed, AccuFlex, etc.) and best techniques. Any significance to some steamers carrying the gray or silver boiler front? Thanks in advance! RegardS, Al Babbitt RMHR Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1773	From: Gerbasi	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Military Loads for Flatcars

If you are looking for some nice looking flatcar loads to pair with the AM flatcar with Patton Tank, look in your discount store for "Battle Squads" items from Galoob Toys. In particular "Combat Packs" look promising. Pack#1 has a nice looking Jeep and a "Howitzer", while Pack #4 has a scout car and a Hawk Missile Array. Depending on the store, the items run from $3.50-$6.00. There is also some 1/72 scale items at the hobby stores, but they can't compete in price with the "Battle Squad" items. Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1774	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Re: Painting Hudson

John, Was that "Al Babbit" or "Ali Baba"???? Stripping your trains!!! OK, don't tell anyone, but the locomotive I added handrails to (see it on Paul's site) was painted with a Spray Can (!@!!!!) of Krylon Semi-Gloss Black. They also make a Semi-Flat Black! There is a slight difference of flatness between the two. Interestingly, I seldom find need for primer on these, although the Royal Blues seem to need it, but then I paint them with different paint to do the Daylights, so that may make a big difference. If I add transfers for lettering, I do dullcoat the locomotive, to protect the transfers. I guess I should add that the handrailed loco did require some filler to fix the previous owner's work. And I've used filler and primer on a K-5 that was heavily corroded on one side. (Hey, I like challenges!). Silver smokeboxes vary according to railroad practice. Usually the smokebox barrel was coated with graphite in Linseed Oil as a high temperature finish, the smokebox front would sometimes be done in silver. And some railroads painted the whole thing silver, mostly in later years. Many park engines get the silver treatment, but don't trust that as authentic. The one I used to care for now has White handrails, contrary to period practice, but correct for current FRA rules!) ACG didn't color smokeboxes, probably as a cost savings measure. But in prototype practice, the smokebox finish is slightly different from the boiler jacket, unless it's a jacketed box. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1775	From: Bill Porter	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Re: Painting Hudson

John, The standard practice on the ZOT is to paint the smoke and fire boxes a slightly lighter shade of gray than the normal engine black. I mix paints and use an air brush. I also avoid Floquil or any of the other products that are toxic. That means it is necessary for me to use some sort of primer. For metal shells, I do use spay cans of automotive primer - but, very sparingly. Then I use regular hobby paints - the water based types - for the color layers. The simulated graphite I use is made by mixing a few drops of silver into the black. Tamiya has a very nice color named 'Gunmetal' that looks about the same. After colors and decals, I spray a few coats of clear sealers - gloss first to hide the edges of the decals and then flat. Good Luck, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1776	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Re: Unigue switcher

> > From: John Foley <foley164@...> > > I found a really unigue switcher on the web today. > >It's a Great Northern loco. I know what the GN say's it > >is. DO YOU? Click on it and let us know. An NW-5 Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1777	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Scena-Rama

I updated my panels page. Thanks David, for the rare Scena-Rama pictures. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/panels/panels.htm -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1778	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Factory Sealed 751 & another story from Tom R.!

Hi all, Tom asked me to post this for him, he couldn't get it to 'go'. Aren't we all glad our trains run more easily than these !@#@ computers! BTW, I get to be the first one to tell Tom, "Neat story!" Where's yours? S' David D. I have read the two stories of recent Christmas gifts with pleasure and recall my own experience at about age eight or nine. Much like other people my age toy trains were all the rage. I wrote my letter to Santa requesting an AF train set I wasn't picky, any AF set from the 1958 catalog would do. Well the day came and there was a nice large box under the tree from Santa for me. To my surprise it was not just any AF set but the 20460 Yard King set! As you all know this is quite a large set and it is also one of the near miss sets with a figure eight layout. I still remember the first time we set it up and how close the 21145 0-8-0 switch engine came to hitting the caboose. Well my parents got divorced when I was about 15 and the train disappeared about that time never to be seen again. Three years ago I thought it would be fun to reconstruct the set of my childhood memories. But I couldn't remember many of the details. So began the treasure hunt for the set # and how many cars and their #'s. By getting on the web and talking to many of you I found that a set book existed for post war AF sets. I found the book and to my amazement there on page 130 was a picture of the set as I remembered it Christmas morning of 1958. Armed with this information I began to collect the cars and track and start asking around about the steam engine. I was shocked to fine out that the engine even in just VG condition was going to be around $500 +. Well I didn't give up, I kept calling and writing. I finally talked to John Heck and he told me he had a 21145 but it would need a lot of TLC and many replacement parts but I could get it for $225. Well I am not a complete nerd and thought that I could restore the engine at least to a good operational condition. I told John to send it to me and I'd give it a try. Well around Christmas of 1997 I finally had all the pieces and the engine was restored. My youngest sister and her husband and two children were at our place for Christmas. After the gift exchange I asked her if she remember the toy train I had as a kid and she said " the one that almost hit the caboose at the crossing " and I said " of course." Well just like two kids we carefully laid out the track and the cars and transformer, hooking every thing up. Then, "O" so carefully, I pushed the throttle on the 18B I had found in the search for all the other cars, forward. About this time I kept thinking that there was no way this was going to work, the engine was sure to hit the caboose. Well the first pass was coming to the crossing and my hand was firmly on the throttle just in case when to my amazement the engine just misses the caboose. My sister and both her kids were shouting, "did you see that!" - " do it again ". So the rest of that day off and on we all played with that train and where constantly amazed that even at full throttle the engine just missed the Caboose. I know that at today's prices (even at the price guide level) that this set was not cheap to put together; but the pleasure and fun of seeing it run just like it did when I was young and being able to share this, not only with my family, but many of my friends, is and was priceless. So I will add my voice to those who say that price guides are just that, guides, and can only be used that way. The true price is what you are willing to pay no matter what the price guide says. May all of you find those childhood AF treasures you seek under your Christmas trees. Tom Rolfsmeyer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1779	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Die cast cars]

Roger Hinds wrote: > > Hi Guy"S" ; > An up date on the trucks I mentioned yesterday. > The Box trailer measures about 10". I couldn't get an exact measurement > because it is in a blister pack. The over length of trailer with > tractor > is Approx. 13 1/2" . It is an areodynamic tractor. > The various racing sponsor names on the trucks are; Kodak, Paychex, > Tide, Kellog, Valvoline. The trucks are calleed Racing team > transporters. > Race cars. same sponsors $ 6.00 > The trucks $18.00 > Both Items (a matched set) $22.00 > > Keep in mind this include shipping and handling. > > There are only a dozen or trucks on the shelf. I do not expect they > will be there much longer. > > S0! ---- While I was checking them out I spotted something interesting. > A 1958 Edsel in 1/64 scale. I rubbed my eyes. Yep it was still there. > So I scoffed it off the shelf and looked for more. None. Sorry. > > I also picked up a 1932 ford hot rod. Which by the way is what kids > did have in the fifties. Both items match the time period of my layout. > > Anyway back to what is on the shelf. I saw various cars that would be > correct for that period in time. Usualy not more than a few of each > item. > The modern stuff is plentyfull. And the strange Items as well. And of > course a ton of race cars. > There are to many items for me to list. It would be easier if I new > what you are looking for. Then I could answer you. I found the cars > realy help a lot in making my layout look correct. > > Well, later. > > Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1780	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: NW-5

John, The diesel you mention is a NW-5 common to about two roads when new the Great Northern and C&IM. Without question an interesting looking locomotive. Gale Hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1781	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/26/1999
Subject: Re NW-5

The NW-5, consisted of 13 units.......10 of which went to the GN, one went to Union Belt of Detroit as there #1, the other two undetermined at this time... The Chicago and Illinois Mildand units (2) were built in 1960 and were listed as RS-1325's they had a single taper from the hood to the cab. My mistake they were not NW-5's however they maintain the same look. The NW-5 have a stepped taper to the cab with the top surface of one section being curved...then reaching the cab. This unit along with the BL-2's paved the way for the GP units. The RS-1325's paved the way for the SW-1500 and the MP-15's. This unit rode of Flexicoil trucks. My mistake to group them together...... Gale Hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1782	From: Bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Re: NW-5

This is indeed a rare locomotive. The Massachusetts Central Railroad has an NW-5, #2100, and anyone who was fortunate enough to tour the railroad at last summer's NASG convention in Worcester got to see one in person! Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1783	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Vehicles

Message: 14 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 21:25:48 -0800 From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> Subject: [Fwd: Die cast cars] Roger Hinds wrote: > > Hi Guy"S" ; > S0! ---- While I was checking them out I spotted something interesting. > A 1958 Edsel in 1/64 scale. I rubbed my eyes. Yep it was still there. > So I scoffed it off the shelf and looked for more. None. Sorry. > There are to many items for me to list. It would be easier if I new > what you are looking for. Then I could answer you. I found the cars > realy help a lot in making my layout look correct. > > Well, later. > > Roger Sounds like Roger has discovered the Mint Editions cars by Racing Champions that several of us have reported on occasionally. They have also been reported and pictured in the NASG Dispatch (You ARE all NASG members, right??). The most recent Dispatch has a list of vehicles by Racing Champions. Caution, not all of these are 1:64, and the scale printed on the box is not always correct. Buy it if it "looks right". Look at the race cars too, even if you don't like them. Some cars seem to only be available as race cars, such as '65 Ford, '63 (?) Pontiac, '63 Ford, '64 Ford. Others are more readily available painted as race cars; '35 Ford PU, '55 Chev convertible. YES, these well detailed proper S scale cars and pickups DO make the layout and the trains look much more realistic. To see what is available from the manufacturers go to their web sites. Matchbox, Hot Wheels, Corgi, Majorette, Lledo, Racing Champs, Code 3, Johnny Lightning, Racing Champions, Ertl, all have S scale vehicles. I think that some of the S scale web sites have links to some of these sites. Racing Champions http://www.racingchamps.com These vehicles are available at Kmart, Walmart, ToysRus, Kaybee, Target, Meijer, etc. They are NOT always all together in one place. Sometimes they are with clearance stuff also. I found a metal ERTL KMart semi, $20 list, for $2 on the Kmart clearance shelf this week. The tractor is too modern for me but at $2, I use the trailer and transfer the wheels and tires from the tractor to one of my old Ertl tractors that has HotRod wheels. Go figger. Why would ERTL put mag wheels on a highway truck! Keep going back too. They do restock, and the stock changes, and once in a while the shelves are full. Also check the railroad swap meets. Some dealers bring old and new vehicles there. If you see something that has not been reported on here, TELL THE REST OF US! It might be something new, and we want to get to the store to get one before the collectors clean them out. It is difficult to get a Mint Editions '66 GTO, or any Chev convertible, because the collectors clean them out so fast. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division TEN COMMANDMENTS: The most important Top Ten list! ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1784	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Re: Re NW-5

Diesel Spotters guide I says: NW-3, GN 5400-5406, to GN 175-181. NW-5 GN 186-195, Union Belt of Detroit 1, 2, lettered Fort Street Union Depot. 2 to Mississippi Export RR, 1 to Olin-Mathiesen, Saltsville, VA. It also lists Southern 2100. Gale Hall wrote: > From: "Gale Hall" <gale_hall@...> > > The NW-5, consisted of 13 units.......10 of which went to the GN, one > went to Union Belt of Detroit as there #1, the other two undetermined > at this time... > > The Chicago and Illinois Mildand units (2) were built in 1960 and were > listed as RS-1325's they had a single taper from the hood to the cab. > My mistake they were not NW-5's however they maintain the same look. > > The NW-5 have a stepped taper to the cab with the top surface of one > section being curved...then reaching the cab. This unit along with the > BL-2's paved the way for the GP units. > > The RS-1325's paved the way for the SW-1500 and the MP-15's. > This unit rode of Flexicoil trucks. > > My mistake to group them together...... > > Gale Hall > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Have you visited our new web site? > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1785	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Re: Painting Hudson

If anyone would like a small heart attack, ha ha, go back to Frank Titman's "One Evening Projects" of the old S Gauge Herald, 1963 era, and see what I did to a pair of AF aluminum observations. You trim the frames at the rear truck, z-bend one, discard the boat tails, and what do you have, a 2-unit, 3-truck articulated coach. It still runs. John Eichmann (JOHN EICHMANN) wrote: > From: "John Eichmann (JOHN EICHMANN)" <JEICHMANN@...> > > Forwarded from AL BABBITT: > >>> > OK, guys and gals, > I just stripped my 321 Hudson down to bare metal (I'll pause so you can pick up your chins from the floor), and I'm looking for tips and suggestions on painting it. I need your input on colors (gloss or flat black, dark gray, etc.), type of paint (spray can, Floquil, airbushed, AccuFlex, etc.) and best techniques. Any significance to some steamers carrying the gray or silver boiler front? > Thanks in advance! > > RegardS, > Al Babbitt > RMHR > Boise, Idaho > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms? > http://www.onelist.com > Sign up for a new email list today > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1786	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: when is gilbertville meet?

Can anyone tell me when the next train meet is in Gilbertville PA ?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1787	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Re: when is gilbertville meet?

Sunday March 21, 1999 at 9AM If your in the area also catch a great show in Wilmington, DE on Sunday March 7, 1999 at the Nur Temple on Rt 13 just north of where Rt 13 meets Rt 40, which is about 2 miles south of the New Castle County Airport. Show opens at 8AM!!! It is open to the public as is Gilbertsville. Enjoy..... Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1788	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Re: Articulated coach; was repainting Hudson

Hmm, I may even remember that article, now that you mention it. Hmm, there was one of these observations without the tail casting on eBay recently too. Hmmm.......Paint it in Daylight colors & voila!! Gee, If I were making steamline cars, what a neat idea (hint, hint!!!). I've always thought repro'ing the aluminum cars would be a relatively low capital outlay project (note the term 'relatively'), but I'd want them with ribbed roofs too! (more Hint, Hint!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1789	From: Gerbasi	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: 1998 NASG car

I have been trying to find out some information about the prototype for the 1998 NASG AF car. It was a Magnolia Petroleum Co. tank car. Try as I may, I can find no information about Magnolia Petroleum either in the Library or on the Internet. All I am interested in is the basics, ( i.e. when the corporation exist, which geographic area did it serve,and approximately when would a tank car like the AF car be on the rails?) . I'd appreciate any information. I have exhausted all of my usual resources with NO results. Thanks, Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1790	From: David Dewey	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Flyer Chat Sunday Nite!

Hi all, Don't forget that the weekly Flyerchat, or should I say 'S-trains chat' is on this Sunday nite, 5-6 PM PST. Lots of fun and thrills! Check out Paul's site for instructions on how to get there. Join the nationwide conversation (Was even international one night!). S' David D. Be there or be square!<G>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1791	From: Joseph Langellotti	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: layout design software

Hi Everyone... I am building my initial S layout and I've come across a software program called Design your Own Railroad by Abracadata. I would appreciate it if anybody who has used the program can provide any comments about its effectiveness for Sscale. Thanx in advance for any information (S)incerely Joe Langellotti

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1792	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Ye Olde Huff and Puff

Somebody asked about Ye Olde Huff and Puff. Here's some info about their boxcars. The info is from their website. http://www.acsworld.net/~comm/huffnpuff/webdoc8.htm They also have figures, and scratchbuilding supplies. BOX CARS #511 Undecorated 36' $17.00 #526 PRR Empire Line 40' $19.00 #512 Undecorated $17 #527 Ore. Short Line 40' $19.00 #513 So. Pacific 36' $19.00 #528 C B & Q 40' $19.00 #514 B & O Globe Line 36' $19.00 REEFERS #550 Undecorated 36' $17.00 #553 Schlitz 36' $19.00 #551 Undecorated 40' $17.0 #576 Canada Dry 40' $19.00 #552 Pabst 36' $19.00 EXPRESS REEFERS 50' #601 Undecorated $20.00 #605 Hoods $25.00 #602 Missouri Pacific $23.00 #606 No. Pac. $25.00 #603 Illinois Central $23.00 #607 Pennsylvania $23.00 #604 R E A $23.00 Last Updated November 2, 1997 NOW, has anybody built one of these and can report on it? Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division TEN COMMANDMENTS: The most important Top Ten list! ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1793	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 2/27/1999
Subject: Painting Hudson

Try using a can of "Stove Black." It matches Gilbert pretty close. You should be able to find it in a hardware or auto parts store. Gregg Mummert gmummert@... S Gauge - the only way to Fly(er)!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1794	From: John Foley	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: NW-5

Hi Yep, it's an NW-5. Looks like I'll have to fine a tougher one to stump you guys. here's a little fun for HiRailers. http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/ihr952.jpg I bet you folks know what this is. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1795	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: Re: Ye Olde Huff and Puff

Ted: In referrence to your question about the "Ye Old Huff & Puff" kits: As I stated earlier, these are similar to the old Kinsman kits in that they are comprised of Northeastern wood floors, sides, end blocks, roof, and roof walk. They are not as complicated as the Kinsman kits were. The hardware is made up of parts that appear to be from the old Stewart line i.e.: cast ice hatches, brake housing, air cylinders, etc. and stamped ladders, steps, and roof walk braces. They come without trucks/couplers. The finished sides are good quality, but not great. They are similar to the old Gene Walp sides. As of a year ago, Scenery Unlimited carried these at the prices noted on the Huff & Puff web site. I purchased a few undecorated items as I had several Clover House dry transfer sets for wood reefers & box cars. Northeastern has discontinued their production of S scale wood shapes, and they can be difficult to find. As for trucks, I have used Ace arch bar trucks on the 36' & 40' cars, and the express reefer trucks available from Scenery Unlimited on the express reefers. This kit won't win you "Best in Class" at an NASG Convention, but they are good items to round out your roster. (If you're a kit builder) Try one or two and see what you think. Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1796	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: Re: Shows

While I think of it, for you New England area folks........ the Bristol S- Gaugers annual "Tracks & Trains" Show (our 7th) is Sunday, March 28th, in Topsfield, Mass ( about 20 minutes north of Boston, Exit 51 off I-95), 10 AM - 4 PM. This is a 200-table, 6-layout show geared to ALL gauges, but because we are a well-known S-gauge club running it, it is one of the best turnouts of S dealers and S equipment at any show in New England. Email me if you need any additional info, or directions. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1797	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: mystery Locomotive

John: Looks like an Alco RS-36 Gale

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1798	From: Ross M Roberts	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: Vehicles

For links to many of the websites dealing with vehicles go to Paul Yorke's: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/vehicles/vehicles.htm Ross Roberts

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1799	From: Gale Hall	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: SW-1

> > >Don and Robin, > >At the local train meet yesterday and today in Joplin, Missouri, I had >the opportunity to see some excellent modeling in S....The end result >was two of the most beautiful CB&Q SW-1's and a fantastic CB&Q calf unit >all built from the SW-9's. It is my understanding you have seen and >photographed this fellows work. I was impressed to say the least.. I >hope you continue to proceed with the SW-1 project as you will have >another winner for sure. > >Another neat item he had started was a SD-7, the top shell was basically >AM GP-7/9 shells and a fantastic job on the fan section on the long >hood....the price tag here was rather high as he was building on a River >Raisin SD power frame and there was a quick $375 for starters and it >quickly got the price to $575. But it showed the possibilities are >limitless for the GP series. > > >Gale > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1800	From: Richard Snook	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: possible modern member

Guys (and any girls!!) I just recieved some back orders of SMG and was very impressed with amongst many the efforts of Bruce Bogart. If he was interested in our modern group does anyone know if he is on the net. Is he already on this list ..Paul???? cheers :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1801	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 2/28/1999
Subject: More Flyer Links

For those of you who wonder is ceramic buildings look good with Flyer... http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/layout/monty/monty.htm One of the most interesting Flyer layouts I have ever seen... http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/Back/back1.htm The un-Official All Aboard Scenic Panel page.. http://members.tripod.com/~Chevy1953/ab/home.html -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1802	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: members

Richard, Bruce Bogart was a member of the MPSM back in 94 and 95, the last address I show is: Bruce Bogart 279 W. Waterloo St Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110 Maybe Alex can check and see if he was covered in the mailout. Gale Hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1803	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Tomalco Track

I received a few pieces of the new Tomalco track. They curve very nicely, solving an old issue that this brand of track had. The ties are an interesting brown, light enough so I believe that they can be weathered to suit. Dimensionally, here is how the track compared with the SOO Line main here in Plymouth, Minnesota. SOO Tomalco Gauge, Inside .881 .890 Outside .967 .968 Rail Height .101 .100 Rail Web .078 .081 Rail Head .0468 .045 Ties 1.591 X .140 X .109 1.585 X .135 X .105 The weathered rail matches up nicely with the color of the rail here in Minnesota on a nice sunny February afternoon, I have yet to try to solder to it. Ken Zieska

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1804	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Dennis Back's layout

Talk about pack'n a lot of punch in a relatively small space! That layout's dripping with Flyer. I found it interesting Dennis uses indoor/outdoor carpet as his base, and that it appears he uses a 751 log loader in a curve. On my modest 7'X5' I've used i/o carpet (but of the more felt-like than grassy texture) and plan to use a 751 in one curved section of an oval. The i/o carpet has held up well, is green with black/brown speckles, helps deaden sound, and works wells as a base for screwing down the track and then leveling it. Wouldn't you just love to see Dennis' accessories, I mean layout, in action. With a little luck and a few more years of shopping, my layout can only hope to be as Flyer-ful.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1805	From: Allen, Douglass H NWO	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 154

From time to time there are refences, in this list, to eBay. Is this some website with which we are all presumed to be familiar.???? If so I'm not.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1806	From: John Foley	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: S Scale Loco & Supply

Hi Folks I run the NASG table at the Allentown Pa. Train Show. A fellow came by the table and gave some news. He purchased the S Scale Loco & Supply Co. The first items to be released will be DETAIL parts for steamers. Of course most of you folks will remember the the many great details parts from SSL&S. What I was told to tell you that SSL&S will hopefully make it's first appearance at the NASG convention at St Paul in July. If he is to late to get a table I will make room at the NASG table for him. And I will stay in touch with him. He is working very hard to get things in order so he asked me for any ideas or wants from you folks that I can pass on to him. So SSL&S will be on the market again. I did tell him to bring marrker lights for a certain non-brass steamer I have to convention. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1807	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Re: John Foley...Fun for HiRailers

I wouldn't swear to it John, but my guess is it's a gray Diesel Locomotive..{8>) Steve Blackburn RMHR

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1808	From: John Foley	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: P.S.

Hi I forgot that SSL&S is also planning on bring some of the old SSL&S scale people. One other thing at the Allentown show I signed up & new NASG members and sold some NASG cars and stuff. John Foley Eastern VP NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1809	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: eBay

Hi Allen, Ebay is an online auction. You can buy or sell all kinds of stuff including American Flyer. Go take a peek at: http://www.ebay.com/ You need not be registered to look around. You do need to be registered to buy or to sell. It is fun, a touch addictive and a good way to find items you need or to dispose of items you don't. The Flyer listing can be found by looking in the category for collectibles:trains or by searching for "American Flyer" in titles and descriptions. Once you find one item, there is a link that will show you the entire category. Have fun and don't spend too much. Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Allen, Douglass H NWO <Douglass.H.Allen@...> To: 'S-Trains@onelist.com' <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 11:02 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Digest Number 154 >From: "Allen, Douglass H NWO" <Douglass.H.Allen@...> > >From time to time there are refences, in this list, to eBay. Is this some >website with which we are all presumed to be familiar.???? If so I'm not. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms? >http://www.onelist.com >Sign up for a new email list today >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1810	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Re: eBay

This link will get you right to Ebay's American Flyer listings: http://listings.ebay.com/aw/listings/list/category480/index.html I was looking for a vehicle to fit a 715 auto-unloading car. I found a #3 blue Tootsietoy midget race car on Ebay by searching for tootsietoy. It was not in the American Flyer section and there was no mention of the fact that it fit on an AF 715. My winning bid was for 13.51 and it works perfectly on the 715. The other day I noticed that an identical car, except the paint was in worse shape, was listed in the American Flyer section and identified as the 715 auto. It went for 34.50. Twenty dollars more because the seller recognized the significance. ---Bill Porter <wpporter@...> wrote: > > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > > Hi Allen, > > Ebay is an online auction. You can buy or sell all kinds of stuff including > American Flyer. Go take a peek at: http://www.ebay.com/ You need not be > registered to look around. You do need to be registered to buy or to sell. > It is fun, a touch addictive and a good way to find items you need or to > dispose of items you don't. The Flyer listing can be found by looking in the > category for collectibles:trains or by searching for "American Flyer" in > titles and descriptions. Once you find one item, there is a link that will > show you the entire category. > > Have fun and don't spend too much. > > Bill Porter > -----Original Message----- > From: Allen, Douglass H NWO <Douglass.H.Allen@...> > To: 'S-Trains@onelist.com' <S-Trains@onelist.com> > Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 11:02 AM > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Digest Number 154 > > > >From: "Allen, Douglass H NWO" <Douglass.H.Allen@...> > > > >From time to time there are refences, in this list, to eBay. Is this some > >website with which we are all presumed to be familiar.???? If so I'm not. > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1811	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: S Scale Loco & Supply - rebirth?

In message <3.0.5.32.19990301110243.0079bb40@...>, John Foley <foley164@...> writes >From: John Foley <foley164@...> > >Hi Folks > > I run the NASG table at the Allentown Pa. Train Show. A fellow >came by the table and gave some news. He purchased the S Scale Loco & Supply >Co. The first items to be released will be DETAIL parts for steamers. >Of course most of you folks will remember the the many great details parts >from SSL&S. What I was told to tell you that SSL&S will hopefully make it's >first appearance at the NASG convention at St Paul in July. If he is to late >to get a table I will make room at the NASG table for him. And I will stay >in touch with him. He is working very hard to get things in order so he asked >me for any ideas or wants from you folks that I can pass on to him. So SSL&S >will be on the market again. I did tell him to bring marrker lights for a >certain non-brass steamer I have to convention. > > John Foley > Hi John Who is the mystery buyer? Jack Chappel (Steam Depot) used to own all of the parts - have they been sold on by Jack? - are these new castings or old stock being sold on? When will he have a price list out, and do you know of any plans for upgraded SSL&S locomotive kits - I have several tabacco tins of SSL&S castings but alas not enough to furnish a locomotive completely. As 3rd Rail choose not to do a USRA 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 switcher these two locomotives would be my first choice for a reactivated SSLS range of kits. -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1812	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Ye Olde Huff and Puff & SU boxcars

In message <19990227.175825.11399.2.mhrreast@...>, mhrreast@... writes >From: mhrreast@... > >Somebody asked about Ye Olde Huff and Puff. >Here's some info about their boxcars. >The info is from their website. >http://www.acsworld.net/~comm/huffnpuff/webdoc8.htm >BOX CARS > > #511 Undecorated 36' $17.00 > #526 PRR Empire Line 40' $19.00 > #512 Undecorated $17 > #527 Ore. Short Line 40' $19.00 > #513 So. Pacific 36' $19.00 > #528 C B & Q 40' $19.00 > #514 B & O Globe Line 36' $19.00 <snip> Can somebody expand on the above list - are they all double sheath boxcars with wooden ends? or are some outside braced? - do any have 'metal' ends if so what pattern? Whilst writng has anybody made up a Scenery Unlimited resin kit for the USRA Double Sheath boxcar - what is the quality of the castings? are they of the same length? are they flat? Thanks -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1813	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Re: Tomalco Track

In message <36DAA082.929BF68A@...>, Ken Zieska <mhrr@...> writes >From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...> > >I received a few pieces of the new Tomalco track. The weathered rail matches up nicely with the color of the rail here in >Minnesota on a nice sunny February afternoon, I have yet to try to >solder to it. > I don't know if the new track uses a different type of weathering - but the existing weathered rail if touched with a hot solding iron produces some very nasty toxic fumes. Extensive cleaning of the rail is needed to stay alive !! -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1814	From: John Foley	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: P.S. Again

Hi Yes SSL&S drivers too. If i didn,t have a bad memory i wouldn't have any. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1815	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: Modern Proto S list

Hi gents: Yes Bruce bogart was on the original mail out. I have received a couple of letters from that in addition to six electronic signons. Today I received a lengthy letter from Randy Wilson full of good ideas. I will either get it scanned or type in the relevant portions and forward to everyone on the modern list. cheers Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1816	From: michael prell	Date: 2/24/1999
Subject: Re: The Real Reason For Pricers

By Jove, John! I thingk you've GOT IT!!! ---JOHN EICHMANN <JEICHMANN@...> wrote: > > From: "JOHN EICHMANN" <JEICHMANN@...> > > I love reading all the divergent points of view recently. It just proves what a passionate group we S-gaugers are. But it appears to me that everyone has missed the whole point in using price guides such as Greenberg's. Whether one thinks the prices are valid or not, the reason for referencing them is to convince your spouse that you're making a wise investment, even though you have absolutely no intention of ever selling the pieces. It's merely a method of justification to spend the money. ;-) > > YourS, > John Eichmann > RMHR > Boise, Idaho > (Thanks, David) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > New hobbies? New interests? Sign up for a new ONElist community. > http://www.onelist.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1817	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Re: Ye Old Huff and Puff

The box car and reefer kits from Huff and Puff are all turn of the century double sheathed cars with wooden ends. They are slightly smaller than "modern" cars of the 1920's or later. Reefers: 550 Undec 36' 551 Undec 40' 552 Pabst 36' 553 Schlitz 36' 576 Canada Dry 40' They also have 50" express reefers, again all wood double sheathed, and a line of On3 kits including a stock car that can be converted to S. I have built a number of their kits (including the stock car) and recommend them highly. Bill Frazier In a message dated 99-03-02 03:54:53 EST, you write: << >Somebody asked about Ye Olde Huff and Puff. >Here's some info about their boxcars. >The info is from their website. >http://www.acsworld.net/~comm/huffnpuff/webdoc8.htm >BOX CARS > > #511 Undecorated 36' $17.00 > #526 PRR Empire Line 40' $19.00 > #512 Undecorated $17 > #527 Ore. Short Line 40' $19.00 > #513 So. Pacific 36' $19.00 > #528 C B & Q 40' $19.00 > #514 B & O Globe Line 36' $19.00 <snip> Can somebody expand on the above list - are they all double sheath boxcars with wooden ends? or are some outside braced? - do any have 'metal' ends if so what pattern? Whilst writng has anybody made up a Scenery Unlimited resin kit for the USRA Double Sheath boxcar - what is the quality of the castings? are they of the same length? are they flat? Thanks -- Kelvin White Oxford England >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1818	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 3/1/1999
Subject: train software

about: joelang@... (Joseph Langellotti) Subject: layout design software I used this package and for Flyer track it seems to run a bit off in trying to follow sectional pieces. The curve/radius data seems a little off and while good for general functional diagrams; I don't think it is too accurate. At least 5years ago, unless they have changed the software. Also I tried making colossal sized layout to their limit of layout. but then could not lay track properly. Again a ratio of big to small problem? Unfortunately I have not tried any other packages. I do like the animated train running feature. Hope this helps. Curt Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1819	From: esquivel	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: circus train

hello, I have a circus engine that seems to be sparking a lot. Big blue sparks come out the bottom and even mark up the track. I am not very mechanical, does anyone have an idea as to what i can do. Or is there a place I can send it to for repairs. thanks alot, dave ---------- > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > To: s-trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: eBay > Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 2:21 PM > > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > This link will get you right to Ebay's American Flyer listings: > http://listings.ebay.com/aw/listings/list/category480/index.html > > I was looking for a vehicle to fit a 715 auto-unloading car. I found a > #3 blue Tootsietoy midget race car on Ebay by searching for > tootsietoy. It was not in the American Flyer section and there was no > mention of the fact that it fit on an AF 715. My winning bid was for > 13.51 and it works perfectly on the 715. The other day I noticed that > an identical car, except the paint was in worse shape, was listed in > the American Flyer section and identified as the 715 auto. It went for > 34.50. Twenty dollars more because the seller recognized the > significance. > > > ---Bill Porter <wpporter@...> wrote: > > > > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > > > > Hi Allen, > > > > Ebay is an online auction. You can buy or sell all kinds of stuff > including > > American Flyer. Go take a peek at: http://www.ebay.com/ You need > not be > > registered to look around. You do need to be registered to buy or to > sell. > > It is fun, a touch addictive and a good way to find items you need > or to > > dispose of items you don't. The Flyer listing can be found by > looking in the > > category for collectibles:trains or by searching for "American > Flyer" in > > titles and descriptions. Once you find one item, there is a link > that will > > show you the entire category. > > > > Have fun and don't spend too much. > > > > Bill Porter > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Allen, Douglass H NWO <Douglass.H.Allen@...> > > To: 'S-Trains@onelist.com' <S-Trains@onelist.com> > > Date: Monday, March 01, 1999 11:02 AM > > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Digest Number 154 > > > > > > >From: "Allen, Douglass H NWO" <Douglass.H.Allen@...> > > > > > >From time to time there are refences, in this list, to eBay. Is > this some > > >website with which we are all presumed to be familiar.???? If so > I'm not. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > We are proud as punch of our new web site! > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1820	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: off the diesel list

Just a couple weeks ago the modeling community lost one of the truly good people with the passing of Terry Mettcalf. It is with great sadness that I pass along news that we have lost another great person and fine modeler. Michael Elkin has lost his battle with a brain tumor, at the age of 53, that he has been fighting for over a year. Those who knew Mike or saw one of his models know just how good he was. I have known and been friends with him since the early 80's. During that time he was truly a "rubber gauger" bouncing from HOn3, to HO, to On3 to HO, to Sn3, back to HO and recently to S Standard Gauge. In each one he excelled with many fine examples of his work having been published in the hobby press. He will be missed. Michael is survived by his wife and two sons. Anyone wanting to send a card to the family >The Elkin Family >8 San Carlos >Rancho Santa Margarita CA. 92679 > >Dave Hussey >Trabuco Canyon CA > > Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1821	From: John Foley	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: SSL&S

Message: 10 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 18:55:55 +0000 From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> Subject: S Scale Loco & Supply - rebirth? > >Who is the mystery buyer? A Fellow S gauger > >Jack Chappel (Steam Depot) used to own all of the parts - have they been >sold on by Jack? - are these new castings or old stock being sold on? > 1. No not Jack. Don't hear much about Steam Depot. 2. Old stock first. I am told its all in fine shape. >When will he have a price list out, and do you know of any plans for >upgraded SSL&S locomotive kits - I have several tabacco tins of SSL&S >castings but alas not enough to furnish a locomotive completely. I would guess price should be out soon. He will put out parts first and look into kits. I think your two are what I would like to see first. We do need a 0-8-0 and a 0-6-0. > >As 3rd Rail choose not to do a USRA 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 switcher these two >locomotives would be my first choice for a reactivated SSLS range of >kits. >-- Kelvin when I get his e-mail address I plan on forwarding all e-mails about SSL&S to him. I will ask if i can tell the folks who he is. Your Friend John Foley > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1822	From: John Foley	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Gray Diesel

Message: 6 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1999 11:37:38 EST From: Boss31@... Subject: Re: John Foley...Fun for HiRailers I wouldn't swear to it John, but my guess is it's a gray Diesel Locomotive..{8>) Steve Blackburn RMHR Hi Steve Your 100% right, But it's non-genetic title is an Alco DL-702M or as one fellow said it is also an RS-36. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1823	From: John Foley	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Re. P.S.

Message: 7 Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 12:51:34 -0800 From: John Foley <foley164@...> Subject: P.S. Hi I forgot that SSL&S is also planning on bring some of the old SSL&S scale people. One other thing at the Allentown show I signed up & new NASG members and sold some NASG cars and stuff. John Foley Eastern VP NASG That & was supposed to be a 7 for 7 new members. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1824	From: John Foley	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: One of a kind loco

Folks Here's a one of a kind EMD electric freight loco. Who thinks they know what it is? http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/emd1976.jpg John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1825	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Re: circus train

Dave, I suspect you have at least one loose driver, at least loose enough that the rim has moved inward and is touching the frame, usually this sort of thing will at least throw the reverse unit into cycle. Turn over your engine and look to see if any of the driver rims can touch the main frame. If so, there's the culprit! S' David D. (too many 'David/Dave on the list!<G>)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1826	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Re: off the diesel list

Dear Alex, I am sorry to hear about Michael Elkin and Terry Metcalf. Michael was a customer and someone who we would see at the conventions. I had the pleasure of sitting at his table at a NASG convention a few years ago. I never has the opportunity to meet Terry Metcalf, but he was a great help to myself and S Helper Service with his collection of UP erection drawings. He helped with the stock car, GSC flat cars and 35 foot trailer providing us with drawings and pictures. Both will be missed by us and other S gaugers. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1827	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Blue and Orange

Someone may want to let onelist know that a number of people on this list do not like the colors blue and orange. Wayne Beachy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1828	From: John Foley	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: SSL&S

Hi Folks Well the name of the fellow who now owns Scale Loco & Supply is Fred Rouse. Fred is working very hard to organize the stock, set prices and do all that must be done to get up and running. Fred will be too busy to take phone calls or answer letters just yet. But he would be very happy if you would Fax or e-mail any ideas, opinions, wants and any thing else that you think can help. I already forwarded all of the appropriate e-mails to him. Yes Fred is planning on the NASG 99 convention, and that is going to be the first place SSL&S will do business. There will be detail parts at convention, drivers and loco kits are planned for the future. So please do send e-mails and fax's to fred at. testingspecialties@... Fax 610 346-9178 John Foley Eastern VP NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1829	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: NASG Web Page

Anybody having trouble with the list of members e-mail addresses on the NASG home page. I click on the name but nothing ever shows up. Links seem to work fine elsewhere? What am I doing wrong/is there a problem with the site? Thanks for any information, Wayne

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1830	From: Craig Stair	Date: 3/2/1999
Subject: Re: NASG Web Page

I have not had your problem, but some of the addresses are not good. I have had a number of them bounce. Craig Stair > From: Wayne Zebron <zebbie@...> > > Anybody having trouble with the list of members e-mail addresses on the > NASG home page. I click on the name but nothing ever shows up. Links seem > to work fine elsewhere? What am I doing wrong/is there a problem with the > site? > > Thanks for any information, > Wayne > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > We have a new web site! > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1831	From: softmoods@vcn.com	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: DISPATCH ERROR

HI ALL, THERE IS AN INFORMATION ERROR IN THE FEB 99 ISSUE OF THE NASG DISPATCH. SECTION: NEW PRODUCTS REPORT PAGE: 7 COLMUM: CENTER COLMUM LOCATION: MIDDLE OF PAGE MANUFACTURE: WESTERN CAR SHOPS CORRECT E-MAIL ADDRESS: softmoods@ v c n .com (spaces for clarity only) PRODUCT: D&RGW 40' 10'6" BOX CARS . FLYING WHITE RIO GRANDE HEARLD AVAILABLE NOW CONTACT FOR FLYERS AND NEWSLETTER. THANKS, ROBERT SHERWOOD, WESTERN CAR SHOPS

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1832	From: Allen, Douglass H NWO	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 156

http://st3.yahoo.net/dieharddiecast/ This is a web site I found while surfing. It is mostly stockcar racing models; but it has links to 120 other die cast models web sites. Gosh did you even imagine there were 120 websites just for die cast?? I sure didn't. This one calls 1:64 HO; but we know better. This will be my last message for a while. I'm losing my on-line access. Will try to reconnect whenever I can; This is fun.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1833	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: SF Reefer

The March Mainline Modeler starts a quite thorough article on building a Santa Fe Reefer. The instructions are written for O scale, but look easily adaptable to S. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division www.heritage.stsci.edu ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1834	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: Magnolia Tanker

--------- Begin forwarded message ---------- > Dear Richard, > A subscriber to the S-Trains list asks about tank cars > lettered Magnolia. Do you know about this company? > Could you provide a few comments about who, when, > where? Ted, Magnolia Petroleum was a sizeable oil company with headquarters in Dallas and a fleet of about 700 tank cars. Magnolia's activities were centered in Texas and the Gulf Coast states, where they had refineries and retail service stations. However, their tank cars wandered further afield; I have photos of them in California in the late 1940s. Prior to WW II, they had a billboard lettering scheme with giant "Magnolia" stenciling in black on white tanks. The black on white color scheme was continued after the war, but the billboard stenciling was dropped and only reporting marks, numbers, and data were applied. In the 1960s, Magnolia and its tank car fleet were acquired by the Mobil Oil Corporation. Richard Hendrickson. --------- End forwarded message ---------- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1835	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: Re: John Foleys guessing games

Come on John, you're making it too easy. Anyone can see that This one is a "White diesel Electric"

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1836	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: Re: John Foleys guessing game

On the other hand John, mebbe it's one o' them new fangled contraptions with the whichamajig on the top that picks up lectricity from the overhead wires. Think I heard em called traction locos or sumthin' like that there. I'm sure it's white though...Steve

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1837	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/3/1999
Subject: Re: One of a kind loco

Ok, few takers on this one! Is it one built for the isolated track mine railroad just east of the grand canyon? With that truck design, it can't like really curvy track! (Bet this one wouldn't handle AF curves!) S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1838	From: John Foley	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: David and Steve

Message: 5 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:24:34 EST From: Boss31@... Subject: Re: John Foleys guessing games Come on John, you're making it too easy. Anyone can see that This one is a "White diesel Electric" Almost, but it's just a big white Electric. No diesel. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 23:43:54 EST From: Boss31@... Subject: Re: John Foleys guessing game On the other hand John, mebbe it's one o' them new fangled contraptions with the whichamajig on the top that picks up lectricity from the overhead wires. Think I heard em called traction locos or sumthin' like that there. I'm sure it's white though...Steve Closer ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 21:22:04 -0800 From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Re: One of a kind loco Ok, few takers on this one! Is it one built for the isolated track mine railroad just east of the grand canyon? With that truck design, it can't like really curvy track! (Bet this one wouldn't handle AF curves!) S David D. Hi david and Steve GM called it a GM-10. They with a Swedish outfit built together. You might be right about the cured track, maybe that's why they only built one. I bet it wouldn't handle AF straight track either. HA! HA! John > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1839	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: can send you information

Hi: I have forwarded a letter to the members of the modern prototype group and others with an interest in prototype S scale modeling. If you're interested in accurate scale cars, let me know and I will forward the same to you. I didn't send the full text to s-trains because it is long and likely won't interest the Flyer fans and hirailers. cheers Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1840	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: Re: Shutdown!

Just to let as many of our customers know as possible---- We will be closed the week of March 8th, as we take 160 of our 8th graders on the annual trip to Washington DC. If you have any urgent, last-minute orders, get them to us by Saturday night (March 6th). We'll try to get them out to you on Monday, before we leave. Re-opening Monday evening, March 15th. Thanks........... Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1841	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: I need some help

I have a few messages over at the message board (http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi/mb19857) that I need your help in answering. WW Hutton (whutton@...) has some questions about testing "two DC engines , 332, and 342DC. Would like to test them out. Does anyone in the K.C. area run DC and have a track available for testing. " and JSLASC1@... wrote... "I am trying to get a value of my Blue Royal American flyer Set. Have all the original Boxes,Original transformer,and the original shipping box,the date on the Engine box is 11-3-1942. Digital pictures of the set available.The set is in pristeen condition. " and Michael Doniger (mdoniger@...) wrote... "What's the difference between AF720 and 720a swiitches? Thanks for your help." Any message board help on these would be appreciated. If you have an original picture showing a AF720 next to a 720a, that would help too. We could add that to the FAQ page. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1842	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: Re: I need some help

Paul, the difference in the switches is the 720 switches had a different base, motor and lamp cover. There was a V notch in the base between the straight rails and the curved rails just in front of the 2 train button, there was a long motor housing in back of the binding posts, and the lamp cover was round from side to side, and that swuare area was more shallow as the motor was not under the lamp assembly. The 720A switches had the base filled in between the straight rails, and the curved rails in front of the 2 train button, The motor housing was removed from behind the binding posts as the motor was mounted under the lamp assembly. The lamp housing is taller and more square with the cover having a rounded top but with straight sides. The attached photo shows the 720 on right, and 720A on left.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1843	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: Re: I need some help

I am assuming that the Royal Blue set is S-Gauge. A date on the box or instruction booklet is never an accurate way to date a set. IF, and that is IF, the set is S Gauge with a 350 Royal Blue the data is as follows. Set 48T cataloged in 1948 350 Steam Loco w/Tender 633 B&O Box 631 T&P Gondola 630 Caboose If EX with all OB's T&P being green and the B&O being a box car Estimated $200 to $225. More from the right buyer. Set 50T (Uncataloged) 350 Steam Loco w/Tender 642 Box or Reefer 631 T&P Gondola 638 Caboose If EX with all OB's T&P being green Estimated $180 to $210 More from the right buyer.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1844	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: Re: I need some help/ONE MORE THING

One more important thing about the differences in the 720 and 720A switches is that only the 720 has a MANUAL SLIDE SWITCH located between the lamphouse and the straight track. You could use the slide to MANUALLY throw the switch or you could use the remote levers. When Gilbert went to the 720A, they dropped the slide switch feature. Dennis Miami, Fl.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1845	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: Re: Shutdown!

You will be saying 'Hi' to Bill for us won't you??? s' David D. PS, I also assume you will petition your congressman for a " National S Gauge Day" ??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1846	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: Re: I need some help/ONE MORE THING

YOu needed that slide switch for the early 720s, as they had a switch inside that turned off the switch coil when it threw, and often it didn't throw all the way! Then you were stuck, as the coil wasn't connected to anything until you threw the manual lever! If you run into control boxes that don't have self-centering levers, this is the switch they were used on! Don't try to use them on new switches, as they will fry your coils! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1847	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 3/4/1999
Subject: NASG website

On 3/2/99 I sent the following message. "Anybody having trouble with the list of members e-mail addresses on the NASG home page. I click on the name but nothing ever shows up. Links seem to work fine elsewhere? What am I doing wrong/is there a problem with the site? Thanks for any information, Wayne" The problem was with my software or my lack of how to use the software. Works fine now that I know what I'm doing. Thanks to Graig O'Connell for his support. Wayne PS That is what I like about this group--there is lots of good advise out there and people willing to share it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1848	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Paul Yorke

Paul, On a globe we are pretty close to Kansas City, four hours south......we can test his DC locomotives. I feel sure he can get help much closer than this....or even get some track and a DC power pack and do it himself. Needs to be a 3 or 4 amp pack howerver.... Gale

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1849	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: SnowBound

Mar. 4: 26 inches of snow in Rochester NY. There is a steady stream of conversation on the Conrail radio; switches not working, maintainers can't drive to them (so the dispatcher sets up a ride on a train), outlaw trains to park, outlaw crews to rescue from their parked trains. No snow in February, law of averages sends it all at once! Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division www.heritage.stsci.edu ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1850	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: the 833

....you may be wondering what was the 833. Well not definately American Flyer, although good olde A.C. Gilbert loved her so much he built the 332, 336, after her. She is one of the two remaining Real Steam Engines that the Union Pacific Railroad ran for many years. The 844 her sister, resides in a roundhouse in Cheyene Wyoming, and we have the 833 here in Utah. She was just moved from Salt Lake City, to Ogden Utah two weeks ago where she will be cosmetically restored (a full restoration would cost over 3 million dollars and the funds are not available). It was an incredible sight to see her moving down INTERSTATE 15 at twelve miles an hour, on a 240 foot long rig, with 178 wheels under her. I shot 3 rolls of film of the event. So we have had alot of excitement here lately. Two members of our local Golden Spike American Flyer Club were there for the full day experience, Al and Jean Rawdon and Wayne Broadhead. If you are interested I could post a few of the pictures for you to see. Today we are having our largest Train Show of the year, the Annual Hostlers Train Show in Ogden Utah, a 3 day event (that train station also happens to be where the Train Museum is and where the 833 was moved too). SO IT WILL BE FUN TO RUN AMERICAN FLYER INSIDE, AND THEN GO OUTSIDE TO SEE THE 833, a real live "American Flyer" Northern. Wayne Broadhead Golden Spike American Flyer Club Salt Lake City Utah

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1851	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: I need some help

while I would like to hear from Mr. Hutton because of his KC proximity, I would probably have to refer him to Paul Stevens or Dick Wholf for test track service, especially with AC, thought I could probably cobble something up if needed. Suggest have him call me at 816-734-8949 for further info, after Sunday night. DJE Paul Yorke wrote: > From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> > > I have a few messages over at the message board > (http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi/mb19857) > that I need your help in answering. > > WW Hutton (whutton@...) has some questions about testing "two DC > engines , 332, and 342DC. Would like to test them out. Does anyone in > the K.C. area run DC and have a track available for testing. " > > and > > JSLASC1@... wrote... > "I am trying to get a value of my Blue Royal American flyer Set. Have > all the original Boxes,Original transformer,and the original shipping > box,the date on the Engine box is 11-3-1942. Digital pictures of the set > available.The set is in pristeen condition. " > > and > > Michael Doniger (mdoniger@...) wrote... > "What's the difference between AF720 and 720a swiitches? Thanks for your > help." > > Any message board help on these would be appreciated. If you have an > original picture showing a AF720 next to a 720a, that would help too. We > could add that to the FAQ page. > > -- > Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. > American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? > http://www.onelist.com > Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1852	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: the 833

I was wondering how that project was coming along. I had seen a site that used to post the latest news on this loco and the efforts to restore her. The last postings showed her with the cylinder heads removed to inspect for condition. They they stopped. Its a shame they cannot raise the funds to get her running again. Keep us all posted.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1853	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: the 833

By the by, the first version of the Northern modeled by A. C. Gilbert in 1939 (3/16 in. scale on O gauge track) was numbered 806 which did correspond (on purpose) to one of the 800 series UP Northerns. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1854	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: For Sale or Trade

I have For Sale or Trade for American Flyer. Dremel Deluxe Moto Lathe Kit Model # 701 included, 1 set of 4 wood- turning chisels #1000, 1 honing stone #1010, 1 face plate # 260042, 1 wood srew drive center #260057, and 12 hardwood dowels these 5 items are still in the display box and shrink wrapped. Also included are 1 wrench # 260079, 1 drive center # 260016, 3 rubber feet #990859 and the original instruction manual/ parts list. This lathe has never been used. Other than the condition of the box which has wear, labels and missing 2 end flaps. $175 + shipping Specs Handels = 6 1/2 " L & 1 1/2", Wood ,Plastic & Soft Metals Speed = 3450 RPM's The Lathe has been discontinued for severals years and are hard to find in good shape and complete. I longer have a need forit. JarMac early 4" mini table sander ( non adj table) $75 + shipping Specs 1/16 HP motor 7000 RPM's Jarmac sells a newer version with a tilting table for $139.50 as of early 1998 Thanks AL ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1855	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: One of a kind loco

Hi John, I couldn't get the link to work but guessing by the file name it's a 6,000-hp EMD GM6C electric locomotive built in 1976 as a test bed for modern electric locomotive components. An article and scale drawings by Julian Cavalier of EMD no. 1976 ran in the July 1976, Railroad Model Craftsman, on page 48. About the same time, EMD also built a three-trucked 10,000-hp electric locomotive numbered GM10. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle John Foley wrote: > > Folks > Here's a one of a kind EMD electric freight loco. > Who thinks they know what it is? > > http://gelwood.el.wny.org/other/emd1976.jpg > > John >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1856	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: the 833

I thought the 838 was also around, which would make 3 'survivors' although I understand 833 was used for spares for the 844 for some years. Also, didn't an Asbestos remover contractor cut into 833s steam dome by accident? (well, that can probably be repaired, but more $$$$$s!) S David D. (working on SP 1215, which we also trucked to our museum, a bit longer journey though, some 300+ miles, fortunately a bit smaller than 833, but still took a 9 axle rig)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1857	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Re: American Flyer]

The attached speeks for itself. I hope the list receives it. By the way, the reply to my inquiry was a little over a week in coming. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1858	From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Fwd: Re: Website - Comments and Suggestions

Wayne's recent posting caused me to dig up this answer to my inquiry if there was any intention to complete the 97 S.F. Super Chief with the release of a "Railsounds" equipped B unit and additional passenger cars as they have done with prior sets, Doesn't look to promising for us Flyer folk, but as far as I'm concerned I don't care what they release in the future, if they don't complete this set I might dabble with individual freight cars, but I don't want to put myself in a position where I feel set up and left hung out to dry. It appeared that if any of the PA passenger sets of recent release were going to be added to it would definitely include the Super Chief since in it's ihitial offering the passenger cars didn't include a combine. I think back to reading all those magazine interviews with Lionel executives who all in the end said Flyer would survive with customer support. I believe that we have supported them pretty well, especially when certain new release items had to be bought at collecter prices because they had sold too quickly. There is a missing ingredient here and that is Loyalty to the customer, this is what stmulates us to come back for more. After aii these are all the same trains just different paint jobs. OH BOY TRAINS...Herky 1950 Obie Bell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1859	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: American Flyer]

The fact that event their main web site hasn't been updated for many months too suggests something. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1860	From: steve roche	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Northern tender

Does any one know of any source for repro Northern tender shells? I acquired a 332 with no tender for a reasonable price but cannot find the elusive tender.Have found a repro chassis. Would appreciate any help. Steve Roche

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1861	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: repro 484 tender shells

Steve: for repro cast tender shells, try David Fletcher, Colonial Casting, 68 Liberty St., Haverhill, MA 01830; 508 374-8783 after 7 PM. Haven't been in touch with him in several years, but he used to make the shell you want. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1862	From: JFR040436@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Switch Control Box

Thank yoyuou! I have one of those that stays on in the direction you move it. I've wondered about it. I will look for some 720s to use it with. I got it with some used 720a 's and I know better than to use it for them. .

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1863	From: aaaron21@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: A F 484 Caboose

Does anyone have any information on an American Flyer Caboose #484? It seems to have link couplers and an offset top. Is it postwar? What would it be worth? Thank you for the help.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1864	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: Switch Control Box

You're more than welcome. It took me sometime to find the switches this controller works with. Not all the '720' type bodied switches use it, though! Only the ones that have the internal switch. Hmm, how to tell the difference from the outside?? Unfortunately, my examples are buried in storage. No externally visible differences! Ahh, but here's one that should work. Take two wires from a transformer, connect one to the black post, touch the other to the red or green post. Switch should throw to that direction. Further touching of the same post should provide no sparking or any reaction. If the switch only throws part way before the coil no longer reacts, you KNOW you have the right switch! This was the big design flaw--while it is very difficult to burn out the coil, it is often difficult to get the switch to throw 'home'! I don't know how long they made this model before changing to the momentary contact control switch. Now that should make life a little more confusing! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1865	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/5/1999
Subject: Re: 720 vs 720A switches

AND a MAJOR difference between the two is the shutter assembly that controls which color of light shines through the lenses. The 720 switches have 4 lenses so that you can see which color is showing from any angle. This is done by a Multi faceted two colored plastic sleeve that slides over the bulb and is turned by the action of the coil. All four sides show green for example. The negative side to this switch is that the plastic "shutters" have a nasty habit of melting from the heat of the bulb and the color has a tendancy to fade. They seem to draw more current to operate than the 720A's also. The 720A's have a shutter assembly on each side of the bulb with a green and red tab on each one. This shutter slides back and forth in front and behind the bulb. This only allows two lenses or "windows" for the light to come through. Thus they can not be seen clearly from all angles..All in all the 720A's were an improvement. I use them both but the shutters and current demant of the 720's is a pain... Steve Blackburn...RMHR

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1866	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: S the 'S'ecret Scale?

As in the past, I would like to continue to tell folks about S related products. I have links to as many of the sites we can find. If you know about a supplier that is unable to have a web page but does not mind us displaying their name and product information, please let me know. The best way to do that is have them send me a note and a flyer. There is 'no charge' to have their name or product featured on my pages. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1867	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: S the 'S'ecret Scale?

---Paul Yorke wrote: >.... If you know about a supplier that is unable to > have a web page but does not mind > us displaying their name and product information, > please let me know.... ======= I think the "secret" of Scale (at least on the internet) is PAUL YORKE. The above is just ANOTHER example of his CONTINUOUS effects to help us and our hobby. I move to call him 'S'aint Paul! <bg> Dennis Miami

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1868	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: 720 / 720A one more thing

I just discovered the the 720 is about 1/8 longer in track length. Big deal you say! It is if your track is nailed or screwed down and ballasted. I was adding a turnout to an existing one (butt to butt). I had a 720A on the line (the smaller one) and wanted to put two 720 switches in its place. Well...I had to cut off at least a 1/4 inch off of a neighboring straight section to make them fit so that the track wouldn't buckle. I just discovered it this morning. Back to work...my layout's a mess! Dennis Miami

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1869	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: northern tender

In a message dated 3/6/99 4:02:01 AM, you wrote: <<Does any one know of any source for repro Northern tender shells? I acquired a 332 with no tender for a reasonable price but cannot find the elusive tender.Have found a repro chassis. Would appreciate any help. >> American Hirail makes (or used to, at least) a resin tender shell. But you'll probably wait 1-2 years to receive it !!!! That's why we don't usually list it in our catalog any more. BTW---- Dave Fletcher does NOT make that shell......He carried the AH resin shell in his catalog also. But they're so hard to come by, he doesn't carry it any more either. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1870	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: A F 484 Caboose

In a message dated 3/5/99 10:16:44 PM, aaaron21@... writes: << From: aaaron21@... Does anyone have any information on an American Flyer Caboose #484? It seems to have link couplers and an offset top. Is it postwar? What would it be worth? Thank you for the help. >> The 484 is a Gilbert prewar sheet metal 3/16" scale O gauge caboose. These were convertible to S gauge by the act of swapping trucks. As for value - not very much. An example in E condition might be worth roughly $20. Of the prewar Gilbert cabooses, it is the die cast 516's (UP and NYC) that are worth some serious coin (~$120). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1871	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: 1946 Dodge Panel Truck in 1:64

Received a new Schwan's (frozen foods) catalog yesterday. They are offering, as part of their birthday celebration, by mail order, for $4.99 + 2 ice cream proof of purchases (per truck ordered), a Lledo 1946 Schwan's Dodge panel truck. It states the trucks will begin shipping on May 1. Schwan's Intermountain Office, if you can't locate one nearby, is 208 884-2020. Enjoy the ice cream. Now for a ice cream plant next to the tracks. Alan Udy RMHS Idaho Falls, ID ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1872	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Schwan's Dodge truck

Hi Allen... Thanx for the infor re; Schwan's truck. I presume the truck is S scale or close. Regret to advise that I'm not familiar with Schwan's. Would a Sxhwan's truck be appropriate to a layout of the Pennsylvania RR? (S)incerely Joe Langellotti

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1873	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 159

anyone that is bored.......read the "dialogue" between a buyer and seller on E-Bay, in the American Flyer section.........scan the auctions and you'll see what im referring to

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1874	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: various and sundray

The thing that bothers me the most here is we wind up with another set of standards, now this is fine for the new guys coming in....but there are alot of layouts that are built and all ready gauged to the current or the pre 1991 standard guage...now ya start messing with this and suddenly alot of the stuff won't run....It is allready pretty much a guessing game if you want to run something on someone elses pike, will it run or not??????? I can appreciate the new rolling stock, its detail and such.....if this is carried to the nth degree the price is going up ward folks...we are all ready adjusted to a $40.00 freight car so where is the next stopping point...I can live without prototype contoured axles and maybe spinner hubs.....we waited 20 years to get a roller bearing truck in S. If everything is to become a Foreground model we won't be able to afford this hobby. 30 years ago superdetailed meant a freight car had the three air brake castings hung under the car, perhaps at or near the proper loaction. Now we are ready to have hollow train lines and working brakes, hey let's have a working brakeman......mmmmm now we got to have S gauge food. The MPSM Sig was formed outside NASG but wait a sec folks, it was under the NMRA banner......da that isn't exactly a split. More like an outreach. And now form another group.....mmmmm numbers are a bit deceiving here....kinda like the statistactian that drowned in a lake that had an average depth of 3 feet. When manufactures look at us for numbers what do they get then a number that overlaps three groups or more and there is a lot of duplication in the groups you could be in the NMRA, NASG, Proto 64, Slim Gauge Guild and Friends of the East Broad Top and that is one person....How about NASG TTOS TCA? Suddenly 5 potiential buyers are one person....You got to think back to what it says under the NASG couplers it says UNITED not untied. Winross doesn't care who buys a truck , Racing Champs doesn't care who buys a car, and Grandt Line doesn't care who buys a five panel door.....except the do make a S five panel door and they make a Sn3 five panel door.....so does that mean Sn3 people are narrower, go figure. You used to be able to say if it wasn't for AF you would have any scale modelers cause that was the basis for 80% of to be scale items. It is much different today with a much larger product spread, you used to be able to sit down and order every new item in S scale for that year for about $100.....now we have choices of whose boxcar are we going to buy...pick one...... Us scale folks have seen the tide turn from S Helper having a scale item to a car with hirail trucks and scale wheel sets....that is good for both sides, so this scale / AF rift really is counter productive and needs to stop....it always seems the NASG is mmm scale or AF, well they have elections and perhaps it can balance out. Oh! and email and the internet a wasteland, mmmm in our case where else can you write a letter like this, punch one button and send it to 335 people for a monthly fee, about 1/5 the cost of that amount of postage.....think what might happen if you were selling a product. Go figure............ Gale Hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1875	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: S-Trains Mo Stuff

Two new video clips, 1.9 & 2.7 meg each, better have a fast modem, or be patient. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/library/library.htm You can get the latest viewer at .. .. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/mediaplayer/download/Win32Otherx86.asp Always looking for project pictures, Scale & Hi-rail. Need help setting up a web page. Did you know they are free at many locations? See ya at Sunday night Chat. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1876	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Schwan's and Lledo

Here is some information about Schwan's See their website for more information. http://www.schwans.com/history.htm "A humble family dairy near downtown Marshall, Minnesota, launched the diversified business known today as Schwan�s Sales Enterprises, Inc. Founder Marvin Schwan (1929-1993) saw an opportunity in 1952. He and his parents were partners in a small dairy that was struggling due to government price freezes and a competitive market. Marvin discovered that ice cream was selling at a higher price north of Marshall and seized the opportunity. After loading an old Dodge panel truck with 14 gallons of ice cream, Marvin ventured toward Montevideo one March morning. By sundown he had sold the entire supply. The Schwan�s home delivery system followed." Schwan's has gone to nationwide distribution, but I do not know when that happened. It did not happen with the 1946 Dodge. But if it is a proper S scale truck, buy it and repaint it. The price quoted certainly is reasonable. I checked the Lledo site. They do not show the 1946 Dodge, and most of their models do not have a scale listed, so it is hard to know if this is correct size. I wrote to Lledo and asked them. I suggest that others who want Lledo to tell us the scale of their vehicles do the same. http://www.daysgone.com While you are at the Lledo site, check these out. Is there anybody who has a stocking dealer for Lledo that can tell us if these are S scale? I see an 1939 Dodge Airflow Texaco gasoline tanker. DG78001 If it is the same as the 1939 Ford Fire Truck, it is very close to 1:64. I have the 1939 Ford Fire truck, and it fits in very well with my other 1:64 vehicles. http://www.daysgone.com/dg78.html DG102 The horse drawn brewer's wagon looks fantastic. http://www.daysgone.com/dg102.html Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division www.heritage.stsci.edu ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1877	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: S sources ?

Steve Connolly asked is there a coordinated catalog (list) of "S" stuff. There's the S catalog put out by Scenery Unlimited. Also Walthers has a big trains catalog which includes S but is kinda limited. There's also the S Scale web page www.connix.com/~crocon/sscale.html anybody else got any recommendations Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1878	From: Baule Family	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: remove

-----Original Message----- From: S-Trains@onelist.com [SMTP:S-Trains@onelist.com] Sent: Sunday, March 07, 1999 2:49 AM To: S-Trains@onelist.com Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 160 Start a new hobby. Meet a new friend. http://www.onelist.com Onelist: The leading provider of free email list services ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm There are 9 messages in this issue. Topics in today's digest: 1. S the 'S'ecret Scale? From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> 2. Re: S the 'S'ecret Scale? From: Dennis Back <backden@...> 3. 720 / 720A one more thing From: Dennis Back <backden@...> 4. Re: northern tender From: PortLines@... 5. Re: A F 484 Caboose From: RBubeck327@... 6. 1946 Dodge Panel Truck in 1:64 From: Alan C Udy <nsupbnsf@...> 7. Schwan's Dodge truck From: joelang@... (Joseph Langellotti) 8. Re: Digest Number 159 From: Gf3897@... 9. various and sundray From: "Gale Hall" <gale_hall@...>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1879	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: S the 'S'ecret Scale?

As in the past, I would like to continue to tell folks about S related products. I have links to as many of the sites we can find. If you know about a supplier that is unable to have a web page but does not mind us displaying their name and product information, please let me know. The best way to do that is have them send me a note and a flyer. There is 'no charge' to have their name or product featured on my pages. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1880	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: S the 'S'ecret Scale?

---Paul Yorke wrote: >.... If you know about a supplier that is unable to > have a web page but does not mind > us displaying their name and product information, > please let me know.... ======= I think the "secret" of Scale (at least on the internet) is PAUL YORKE. The above is just ANOTHER example of his CONTINUOUS effects to help us and our hobby. I move to call him 'S'aint Paul! <bg> Dennis Miami

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1881	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: 720 / 720A one more thing

I just discovered the the 720 is about 1/8 longer in track length. Big deal you say! It is if your track is nailed or screwed down and ballasted. I was adding a turnout to an existing one (butt to butt). I had a 720A on the line (the smaller one) and wanted to put two 720 switches in its place. Well...I had to cut off at least a 1/4 inch off of a neighboring straight section to make them fit so that the track wouldn't buckle. I just discovered it this morning. Back to work...my layout's a mess! Dennis Miami

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1882	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: northern tender

In a message dated 3/6/99 4:02:01 AM, you wrote: <<Does any one know of any source for repro Northern tender shells? I acquired a 332 with no tender for a reasonable price but cannot find the elusive tender.Have found a repro chassis. Would appreciate any help. >> American Hirail makes (or used to, at least) a resin tender shell. But you'll probably wait 1-2 years to receive it !!!! That's why we don't usually list it in our catalog any more. BTW---- Dave Fletcher does NOT make that shell......He carried the AH resin shell in his catalog also. But they're so hard to come by, he doesn't carry it any more either. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Port Lines @ aol.com http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1883	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: A F 484 Caboose

In a message dated 3/5/99 10:16:44 PM, aaaron21@... writes: << From: aaaron21@... Does anyone have any information on an American Flyer Caboose #484? It seems to have link couplers and an offset top. Is it postwar? What would it be worth? Thank you for the help. >> The 484 is a Gilbert prewar sheet metal 3/16" scale O gauge caboose. These were convertible to S gauge by the act of swapping trucks. As for value - not very much. An example in E condition might be worth roughly $20. Of the prewar Gilbert cabooses, it is the die cast 516's (UP and NYC) that are worth some serious coin (~$120). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1884	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: 1946 Dodge Panel Truck in 1:64

Received a new Schwan's (frozen foods) catalog yesterday. They are offering, as part of their birthday celebration, by mail order, for $4.99 + 2 ice cream proof of purchases (per truck ordered), a Lledo 1946 Schwan's Dodge panel truck. It states the trucks will begin shipping on May 1. Schwan's Intermountain Office, if you can't locate one nearby, is 208 884-2020. Enjoy the ice cream. Now for a ice cream plant next to the tracks. Alan Udy RMHS Idaho Falls, ID ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1885	From: Joseph Langellotti	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Schwan's Dodge truck

Hi Allen... Thanx for the infor re; Schwan's truck. I presume the truck is S scale or close. Regret to advise that I'm not familiar with Schwan's. Would a Sxhwan's truck be appropriate to a layout of the Pennsylvania RR? (S)incerely Joe Langellotti

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1886	From: Gf3897@aol.com	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 159

anyone that is bored.......read the "dialogue" between a buyer and seller on E-Bay, in the American Flyer section.........scan the auctions and you'll see what im referring to

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1887	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/6/1999
Subject: various and sundray

The thing that bothers me the most here is we wind up with another set of standards, now this is fine for the new guys coming in....but there are alot of layouts that are built and all ready gauged to the current or the pre 1991 standard guage...now ya start messing with this and suddenly alot of the stuff won't run....It is allready pretty much a guessing game if you want to run something on someone elses pike, will it run or not??????? I can appreciate the new rolling stock, its detail and such.....if this is carried to the nth degree the price is going up ward folks...we are all ready adjusted to a $40.00 freight car so where is the next stopping point...I can live without prototype contoured axles and maybe spinner hubs.....we waited 20 years to get a roller bearing truck in S. If everything is to become a Foreground model we won't be able to afford this hobby. 30 years ago superdetailed meant a freight car had the three air brake castings hung under the car, perhaps at or near the proper loaction. Now we are ready to have hollow train lines and working brakes, hey let's have a working brakeman......mmmmm now we got to have S gauge food. The MPSM Sig was formed outside NASG but wait a sec folks, it was under the NMRA banner......da that isn't exactly a split. More like an outreach. And now form another group.....mmmmm numbers are a bit deceiving here....kinda like the statistactian that drowned in a lake that had an average depth of 3 feet. When manufactures look at us for numbers what do they get then a number that overlaps three groups or more and there is a lot of duplication in the groups you could be in the NMRA, NASG, Proto 64, Slim Gauge Guild and Friends of the East Broad Top and that is one person....How about NASG TTOS TCA? Suddenly 5 potiential buyers are one person....You got to think back to what it says under the NASG couplers it says UNITED not untied. Winross doesn't care who buys a truck , Racing Champs doesn't care who buys a car, and Grandt Line doesn't care who buys a five panel door.....except the do make a S five panel door and they make a Sn3 five panel door.....so does that mean Sn3 people are narrower, go figure. You used to be able to say if it wasn't for AF you would have any scale modelers cause that was the basis for 80% of to be scale items. It is much different today with a much larger product spread, you used to be able to sit down and order every new item in S scale for that year for about $100.....now we have choices of whose boxcar are we going to buy...pick one...... Us scale folks have seen the tide turn from S Helper having a scale item to a car with hirail trucks and scale wheel sets....that is good for both sides, so this scale / AF rift really is counter productive and needs to stop....it always seems the NASG is mmm scale or AF, well they have elections and perhaps it can balance out. Oh! and email and the internet a wasteland, mmmm in our case where else can you write a letter like this, punch one button and send it to 335 people for a monthly fee, about 1/5 the cost of that amount of postage.....think what might happen if you were selling a product. Go figure............ Gale Hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1889	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Re: Magnifier for closework

Go to your local Walgreens and lo, there on a revolving rack, are dozens of readymade spectacles in varying powers!!!!! Price range $12 to 18, seems like a #250 to #300 works fine depending on the individual. U can get some of em as 'Half-ies' so U can peer over the top for normal vision... L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1890	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Ok.... Plasticville help.....

Ok fellow model railroaders. I am in need of two stubborn parts for Plasticville O/S kits. Please root thru your parts boxes, or check your storage shelves for incomplete kits. I need a dark gray step unit to the Railroad Work Car. I will be willing to buy an incomplete kit if very reasonable, to get this part. It must be the dark gray, not medium. I also need a shovel for the House Under Construction. Again, if you have a kit missing some parts, I would be willing to buy it if reasonable to get this part. Thanks for looking everyone, please let me know if you have either of those parts to offer, and how much you would like.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1891	From: John Foley	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: (no subject)

> >Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 6 Mar 1999 05:39:09 -0800 (PST) > From: Dennis Back <backden@...> >Subject: Re: S the 'S'ecret Scale? > >---Paul Yorke wrote: >>.... If you know about a supplier that is unable to >> have a web page but does not mind >> us displaying their name and product information, >> please let me know.... >======= > >I think the "secret" of Scale (at least on the internet) is PAUL >YORKE. The above is just ANOTHER example of his CONTINUOUS effects to >help us and our hobby. > >I move to call him 'S'aint Paul! <bg> > >Dennis >Miami > Hi Dennis I couldn't agree with you more about Paul. Thanks Paul, I always look forward to my daily S-trains E-mail. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1892	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: AF 977 Caboose - How to open

Hi all, I have an AF 977 caboose, circa 1956, that I need to open to repair the "operating" brakeman/conductor. He makes a lot of buzzing, but moves in and out as if there is a break in a wire internally. The caboose also shorts out the track occasionally causing the engine to stop, reverse, stop, go forward, stop. Not a pretty sight. Can anyone tell me how to open up the caboose. There are four flat steel heads in the corners of the bottom. Do I have to drill these out, or is there some trick? I was told at the recent GATS show here in Baton Rouge, that I could install a diode bridge to fix the buzzing, but I forgot to ask how to open the thing up... And I didn't get the gentleman's name although he said he is on this list... Thanks, Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1893	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF 977 Caboose - How to open

Michael Westphal wrote: > From: Michael Westphal <westphal@...> > > Hi all, > > I have an AF 977 caboose, circa 1956, that I need to open to repair the > "operating" brakeman/conductor. He makes a lot of buzzing, but moves in > and out as if there is a break in a wire internally. The caboose also > shorts out the track occasionally causing the engine to stop, reverse, > stop, go forward, stop. Not a pretty sight. > > Can anyone tell me how to open up the caboose. There are four flat steel > heads in the corners of the bottom. Do I have to drill these out, or is > there some trick? > > Thanks, > Michael The four thingsin the corners are the heads of pins that are pressed into the body. Extract them carefully to not break the bosses they fit into. I usually have good luck using a pair of needle node pliers. If they are too stubborn for that try prying them up a tad with a knife or thin screwdriver blade to start them, then use the pliers.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1894	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Name

How about The Modern(but not too modern) Proto(but we're pretty easy going) :64 ( well, anything close if its a car) Prototype( aparently there is always one for any occasion) Modellers ( or lookers, or thinkers, and especially procrastinators) Group ( or any loose collection on similar/non similar viewpoint) and associated misfits. Sorry , just went for a walk in left field, didn't see the fly ball coming :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1895	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Re: various and sundray

I don't think there are the numbers to split off. That should not be necessary until all avenues within the system are exhausted. Kinda like politics. Gale Hall wrote: > From: "Gale Hall" <gale_hall@...> > > The thing that bothers me the most here is we wind up with another set > of standards, now this is fine for the new guys coming in....but there > are alot of layouts that are built and all ready gauged to the current > or the pre 1991 standard guage...now ya start messing with this and > suddenly alot of the stuff won't run....It is allready pretty much a > guessing game if you want to run something on someone elses pike, will > it run or not??????? I can appreciate the new rolling stock, its detail > and such.....if this is carried to the nth degree the price is going up > ward folks...we are all ready adjusted to a $40.00 freight car so where > is the next stopping point...I can live without prototype contoured > axles and maybe spinner hubs.....we waited 20 years to get a roller > bearing truck in S. If everything is to become a Foreground model we > won't be able to afford this hobby. 30 years ago superdetailed meant > a freight car had the three air brake castings hung under the car, > perhaps at or near the proper loaction. Now we are ready to have hollow > train lines and working brakes, hey let's have a working > brakeman......mmmmm now we got to have S gauge food. > > The MPSM Sig was formed outside NASG but wait a sec folks, it was under > the NMRA banner......da that isn't exactly a split. More like an > outreach. > > And now form another group.....mmmmm numbers are a bit deceiving > here....kinda like the statistactian that drowned in a lake that had an > average depth of 3 feet. When manufactures look at us for numbers what > do they get then a number that overlaps three groups or more and there > is a lot of duplication in the groups you could be in the NMRA, NASG, > Proto 64, Slim Gauge Guild and Friends of the East Broad Top and that is > one person....How about NASG TTOS TCA? Suddenly 5 potiential buyers > are one person....You got to think back to what it says under the NASG > couplers it says UNITED not untied. > Winross doesn't care who buys a truck , Racing Champs doesn't care who > buys a car, and Grandt Line doesn't care who buys a five panel > door.....except the do make a S five panel door and they make a Sn3 > five panel door.....so does that mean Sn3 people are narrower, go > figure. > > You used to be able to say if it wasn't for AF you would have any scale > modelers cause that was the basis for 80% of to be scale items. > It is much different today with a much larger product spread, you used > to be able to sit down and order every new item in S scale for that year > for about $100.....now we have choices of whose boxcar are we going to > buy...pick one...... > > Us scale folks have seen the tide turn from S Helper having a scale > item to a car with hirail trucks and scale wheel sets....that is good > for both sides, so this scale / AF rift really is counter productive and > needs to stop....it always seems the NASG is mmm scale or AF, well they > have elections and perhaps it can balance out. > > Oh! and email and the internet a wasteland, mmmm in our case where else > can you write a letter like this, punch one button and send it to 335 > people for a monthly fee, about 1/5 the cost of that amount of > postage.....think what might happen if you were selling a product. > Go figure............ > > Gale Hall > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? > http://www.onelist.com > Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1896	From: Theinyo22@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Proto 64

How about keeping it simple with just Proto 64. Put Proto 64 into your subject and anyone interested in scale S they can pick it out immediately and delete the rest. Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1897	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Re: Name

By jove, I think he's got it! (or something close) <BG> Sorry, I couldn't resist, ROFL. "The Modern(but not too modern) Proto(but we're pretty easy going) :64 ( well, anything close if its a car) Prototype( aparently there is always one for any occasion) Modellers ( or lookers, or thinkers, and especially procrastinators) Group ( or any loose collection on similar/non similar viewpoint) and associated misfits."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1898	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF 977 Caboose - How to open

Mike, Well, I can tell you how to get the pins out, but I have to admit, I had to bend my brakeman a bit to get him out, and I'm sure that isn't necessary. (Someone out there know what is?) The Pins are pressed in. If you get a small solder iron, and carefully heat the pin while applying pressure to lift the metal floor out, it will move. I usually do this by holding the caboose body in one hand, using one finger to push on the coupler to provide the pressure. The first corner moves only a little bit, then the next corner more. When putting back together, I set the pins in the hole, feeling for the ridges in the plastic, then use the warm iron to push them home. Less stress on the old plastic that way. As I said, getting the bottom off with the man attached is tricky. It's been a few years since I did this, but I finally had to un bend the man just a bit, not much to get him to clear the slot. I used a radio shack rectifier, stopped the buzzing, and slowed down the action a bit, looks more realistic. I would suspect a capacitor in the output as a bridge would also smooth out the momentary interruptions caused by dirt, switches, etc. Has anyone tried this? Check your caboose truck pivots for cracked insulators, since you've had short problems, that or a bare wire somewhere. Let us know how the surgery goes! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1899	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/7/1999
Subject: Re: Proto 64

From: Theinyo22@... How about keeping it simple with just Proto 64. Put Proto 64 into your subject and anyone interested in scale S they can pick it out immediately and delete the rest. Bill Seriously, that sounds good to me, as long as we pledge not to 'flame' anyone that forgets to put the 'Proto64' in once in a while! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1900	From: David L. Cooke	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: SCHWANS

Accoeding to the Schwans Catalogue it states 1/64th scale David Cooke

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1901	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: Proto 64

Hi Ya'll, Let me add my voice to the cacophony. Please keep the S-Trains list inclusive. We never know when something of interest to one may be of interest to many. The subject line is a great idea - it lets us know the "Subject" of the note - imagine that. Lets avoid fragmentation, splinteritis, cliqueishness and other divisive organizational features. Also, I agree with the non-flaming of contributors. Model railroaders of all stripes tend to be a bit grumpy. I can live with that and use it to filter what I read. But, we should try to avoid grumpitude when we can - especially on this list. ZOT status: After a few weeks of interruptions for earning a living and taking care of my family, I have returned to the serious business of model railroad construction. I expect to have my subroadbed completed this month for the mainline and to have track on top of it. When I do, I'll post pix and let you know. Great Zot itS, Bill Porter > >How about keeping it simple with just Proto 64. Put Proto 64 into your >subject and anyone interested in scale S they can pick it out immediately >and >delete the rest. >Bill > >Seriously, that sounds good to me, as long as we pledge not to 'flame' >anyone that forgets to put the 'Proto64' in once in a while! >S' >David D. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1902	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: AF 977 Caboose - How to open

One of the items on the FAQ is about stopping the buzz in an action caboose: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm ---Michael Westphal <westphal@...> wrote: > > From: Michael Westphal <westphal@...> > > Hi all, > > I have an AF 977 caboose, circa 1956, that I need to open to repair the > "operating" brakeman/conductor. He makes a lot of buzzing, but moves in > and out as if there is a break in a wire internally. The caboose also > shorts out the track occasionally causing the engine to stop, reverse, > stop, go forward, stop. Not a pretty sight. > > Can anyone tell me how to open up the caboose. There are four flat steel > heads in the corners of the bottom. Do I have to drill these out, or is > there some trick? > > I was told at the recent GATS show here in Baton Rouge, that I could > install a diode bridge to fix the buzzing, but I forgot to ask how to > open the thing up... And I didn't get the gentleman's name although he > said he is on this list... > > Thanks, > Michael > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1903	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: 977 caboose

When you put a diode bridge in a 977 caboose, remember how you did it ! The bridge may not last more than a few years. Some of mine haven't. In fact, I'm not very happy with Radio Shack diode bridges at all. They don't stand up to the strains of Flyer railroading very well in my experience. In fact, one exploded on my workbench and nearly took out an eyeball. Sounded like a gun going off. I note that the one recommended by Tom Barker for the caboose in his book has been discontinued. I think the problem is that they cannot be expected to withstand the brief surges of 40 to 70 volts that sometimes occur during derailments and other freak situations. They probably need to be protected with an MOV or something similar. Does anyone out there know how to do this? I think that a diode bridge used to supply DC track power should be similarly protected. In fact, I would like to know a lot more about MOVs. I fooled around with a few. One was very effective as a circuit breaker, except that it didn't of course give any indication when there was a short. What I don't know is where to get them and more importantly, how to calculate which one to use where. They are (or should be) so cheap that I could imagine using them all over a Flyer layout -- in every track power circuit and to protect every accessory with a solenoid. Perhaps they could prevent the typical damage to solid state reverse units as well as burned out switch coils, etc. But would stopping power surges to the track and accessories merely cause a surge somewhere else, like from one linked transformer to another? Another one of my murky electronic fantasies: it would be nice to have a thermal diode, thermisistor, or some other little goodie that could be taped to a coil andwould cut off power if it got too hot, and restore it when it cooled off. Most home appliances such as coffee makers and blenders have a fuse type device that burns out if the unit gets hot. It must be replaced for the unit to work again. This would not be practical for trains. What is needed is something that can cut off power repeatedly without needing replacement. I plan to teach myself a lot more about electronics in the coming years. If anyone on this list has the knowledge to answer the questions above, please step up, step out, and let it rip! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1904	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: 977 caboose

Hi Tom: (1) The failures in bridge rectifiers are indeed often caused by spikes that can exceed hundreds of volts (on 18 vac trackage) for brief--typically microsecond--periods. (A microsecond is a millionth of a second). Tom's observation about Radio Shack parts hits the nail on the head. Many of its parts are pure spinoff rejects. I'm sometimes compelled to buy two or three chips or packages of parts when I buy there in order to get one good device. It's better to buy mail order from Mouser or one of the other parts distributors. Mouser will entertain small orders ("onsey-twosey" parts). The rating that will help avoid the proplem isn't often given on epoxied bridge stacks because they're intended to go into low voltage but high current linear applications where spiking is almost non-existant (such as stereo amplifier power supplies). The rating is called "peak inverse voltage" or PIV and is a measure of the reverse voltage that can be safely applied to a P-N junction of a diode. The higher, the better. Pick 600 PIV rated diodes if you're assembling your own bridges, and you should have no trouble even in "noisy spike laden" Flyer systems. In any case, in my buzzy caboose file on Paul Yorke's Web site, I mention that I used VERY heavy (current) bridges. They seem to hold up better. (2) Here's a cut-and-paste from an earlier e-mail which pertains to MOVs: >>>>>>>>>>>> The surges Tom refers to are more properly voltage spikes. If I were designing a board to work in a spike-laden environment such as a train track, I'd be sure to include spike suppression diodes or networks. If you look at a spike on a 15 V AC line on an oscilloscope, I'd bet you would see it go very high--perhaps 100 volts or more, for an instant. That can easily destroy a microcircuit or transistor. ......from a reliability point of view, solid-state circuits are typically VERY reliable. After all, there are no moving parts to wear out. Everything's monolithic. I suppose in twenty years there might be a relay contact problem, but it's unlikely. The contact plating materials in the cheapest relays are probably superior to the contacts in the original AF reversal units. The suggestion of add-on surge suppression is interesting. For DC circuits, Zener diodes can perform the task. For AC circuits, back-to-back Zener diodes should do the trick. A Zener diode has a voltage rating below which it doesn't conduct. Above the threshold or breakdown voltage rating, it conducts--shunting a spike away from a sensitive circuit. There are also cheap devices called metal oxide varistor voltage suppressors that can be placed across an AC circuit. A MOV has a given threshold voltage, below which it will not conduct. It just sits there and does nothing, looking like a small ceramic disc capacitor. However, if a brief voltage spike comes along--and most last only a few thousandths of a second--the MOV conducts when the spike is present. It acts as a virtual short, conducting heavily and shunting the energy in the spike away from the circuit it's protecting. MOVs come in a variety of working voltage ratings; you also select the thresholds. However, most are for higher voltage systems than the 20 V maximum we might see on a track. The Mouser catalog shows some with 50 V operating ratings, but they're for clamping 100 V-plus spikes. They're useful for keeping spikes out of DCC units, or computer AC lines (117 vac) for example. I don't think a MOV would provide much protection on a track, but perhaps someone else has some experience with that. (3) Tom, I taught electronics in the military and at Briarcliffe College. I can say that the best way to learn electronics is to start at the beginning--with DC theory and then progress to AC theory and then to circuits, etc. Some Amateur Radio books are good starting places. That's where I got my start in electronics in 1957. I also used a textbook entitled "Introductory DC/AC Electronics," by Nigel P. Cook, Prentice-Hall, ISBN 0-13-500026-2. I found it very good, well illustrated, anecdotal, and easy to follow. (4) Keep up the fantastic articles in "S-Gaugian" magazine! They are really terrific. Many thanks. Regards from snowy Maine, Alex in Kennebunk .-.-. -----Original Message----- From: Jarcho [mailto:jarcho@...] Sent: Monday, March 08, 1999 10:25 AM To: S-trains@onelist.com Subject: [S-Trains] 977 caboose From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) When you put a diode bridge in a 977 caboose, remember how you did it ! The bridge may not last more than a few years. Some of mine haven't. In fact, I'm not very happy with Radio Shack diode bridges at all. They don't stand up to the strains of Flyer railroading very well in my experience. In fact, one exploded on my workbench and nearly took out an eyeball. Sounded like a gun going off. I note that the one recommended by Tom Barker for the caboose in his book has been discontinued. I think the problem is that they cannot be expected to withstand the brief surges of 40 to 70 volts that sometimes occur during derailments and other freak situations. They probably need to be protected with an MOV or something similar. Does anyone out there know how to do this? I think that a diode bridge used to supply DC track power should be similarly protected. In fact, I would like to know a lot more about MOVs. I fooled around with a few. One was very effective as a circuit breaker, except that it didn't of course give any indication when there was a short. What I don't know is where to get them and more importantly, how to calculate which one to use where. They are (or should be) so cheap that I could imagine using them all over a Flyer layout -- in every track power circuit and to protect every accessory with a solenoid. Perhaps they could prevent the typical damage to solid state reverse units as well as burned out switch coils, etc. But would stopping power surges to the track and accessories merely cause a surge somewhere else, like from one linked transformer to another? Another one of my murky electronic fantasies: it would be nice to have a thermal diode, thermisistor, or some other little goodie that could be taped to a coil andwould cut off power if it got too hot, and restore it when it cooled off. Most home appliances such as coffee makers and blenders have a fuse type device that burns out if the unit gets hot. It must be replaced for the unit to work again. This would not be practical for trains. What is needed is something that can cut off power repeatedly without needing replacement. I plan to teach myself a lot more about electronics in the coming years. If anyone on this list has the knowledge to answer the questions above, please step up, step out, and let it rip! Tom Jarcho ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come check out our brand new web site! http://www.onelist.com Onelist: Making the Internet intimate ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1905	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: MORE 1/64 CARS

Joe wrote: I found a series of Matchbox Brand cars that are very usable for S scale layouts. This series is their 1998 series # 5. There are 10 different cars in this series. They are '57 Chevy Bel Air coupe,'70 El Camino,'69 Camaro SS convertible,'33 Ford street rod,'56 Ford pick-up,'57 Chevy convertible,'70 Boss 302 Mustang,'70 Pontiac GTO coupe,'71 Camaro,and '68 Mustang coupe. All have custom wheels and some are closer to scale than others. The '69 and '71 Camaros are close to S scale. I found them at the grocery store for less than a dollar each. They are di-cast with plastic trim and underbodies. The body trim is not hi-lighted so I added red taillights,silver bumpers,and headlights. These compliment the Racing Champions Mint series well and are a very reasonable way to add to an S scale layout. Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1906	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 161

Hello to all.....perhaps this isn't the correct forum, however I am looking to purchase an American Flyer 350 Royal Blue engine and tender, in excellent condition, preferably the version with the larger lettering. If anyone has one they would be willing to part with, please e-mail me with details.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1907	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Schwan's and Lledo

- Greetings - Thanks to Ted Larson for catching us up on vehicle supply. Anyone wanting to see the prototype for his Texaco tanker may find it in the Henry Ford Museum in Detroit. This will help you know which tires are correct as the truck appears today <grin>. Cheer`S' Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1908	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: AF 977 Caboose - How to open

Re: Buzzy 977 (or 979, 25052, etc.) Permit me to suggest an alternate means to fix the 'brakeman buzz' that involves no additional electronics and preserves collectability. I have found that: (1) placing a small bit of (very) flexible foam inside the solenoid core, and then (2) placing a small piece of electrical tape or clear vinyl tape on the underside of the action arm on the spot where the action arm rubs on the rear platform usually damp out the buzz and permits good operation. The tape is not visible and is very easily removed if per chance it offends any future owner. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1909	From: Mark Preman	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Train Show In Marietta, GA

Hey gang, Any S-Troops going to the NMRA show in Marietta, GA this coming weekend? I will have three tables of vintage "Flyer" if you are in the neighborhood. Stop by and say "The Future is in S". Hey Mr. Dewey, can I borrow your hypnotisn' watch? Mark B. Preman http://www.americanflyertrains.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1910	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: Train Show In Marietta, GA

Mark , Yes, You may 'rent' my watch. Payment to be in AF stuff!!<BG> Love to be there myself, but the travel distance is a bit much. S'incerely, David Dewey Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1911	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: track gauge

Track gauge for "S" and for PROTO:64 are .883" ( 22.43mm) :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1912	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: S sources ?

Ed--I agree, this plus the snap-ring binders that you can update as you go is the only way to go--there are too many changes for anything more hard-bound to be effective for any length of time. Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote: > I've been in S scale since 1969 and have never seen a catalog of "all" > scale products in one binding. No such thing really ever existed > although a few folks have made attempts over the years. Steam Depot is > one of these attempts in addition to Alex's list below. The best way to > learn about S's offerings is to write to 40 different companies and ask > to be placed on their mailing list and also send them a buck or two for > their catalog -- if they have one. It ain't easy or convenient, but it > is the best way. > > "S"incerely, > > Ed Loizeaux > > Alex Binkley wrote: > > > > Steve Connolly asked is there a coordinated catalog (list) of "S" stuff. > > There's the S catalog put out by Scenery Unlimited. Also Walthers has a big > > trains catalog which includes S but is kinda limited. There's also the S > > Scale web page www.connix.com/~crocon/sscale.html > > anybody else got any recommendations > > > > Alex Binkley > > Hammond, Ontario > > alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1913	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Flyer in Canada

Earlier this year someone mentioned that American Flyer once had a branch plant in Canada, but couldn't remember where. I have just seen an All Aboard set merketed during the middle 1960s by A.C. Gilbert of Canada Ltd., head office Burlington, Ontario. Does this jog anyone's memoery? More if as and when I receive it. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1914	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's and Lledo

Ted Larson <www.heritage.stsci.edu> wrote: >Is there anybody who has a stocking dealer for Lledo >that can tell us if these are S scale? Hi Ted and all: Check out either of the following from my S Scale Model Railroading website <http://trainweb.com/crocon/ssuppliers.html> on "S" Suppliers: IFITZGOTWHEELS = http://www.ifitzgotwheels.com/ifitzgotwheels/ On-Site Die-cast & Collectible's = http://www.hurricane.net/~onsite/home.htm I've purchased Lledo trucks from IFITZGOTWHEELS and they were 1/64th scale. Only problem here in the U.S. is that the steering wheel was on the right side. Hope this helps, Craig S. O'Connell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1915	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Re: Opening AF 977 Caboose

My thanks to all who answered so correctly and QUICKLY! This seems to be something that many people have had to contend with. Of course next time, I need to check Paul Yorke's web site before posting. <http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm> <http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/projects/flagman.htm> I appreciate the many thoughtful responses. This is certainly a good list. Think I'm gonna 'S'tick around. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1916	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Bill Banta

When I listed S scale suppliers, I overlooked, because I didn't know about it, Bill Banta's website. He says check out www.divisionpoint.com or order a catalogue. Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1917	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: Schwans Customer Service

--------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Schwans Customer Service It is a 1/64 scale model. It is 3 3/4 inches long > I have heard about your special offer > toy Dodge delivery truck. > I hope to see information about > obataining it on your web site. > Do you know what the scale size is > (1:64, 1:48, etc.)? > Thank you. > Ted Larson --------- End forwarded message ---------- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1918	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: AF S Link Coupler Trucks

Okay Scalers and other S Gaugers Out There: Do you have any old American Flyer link coupler trucks lying around out there? I will pay cash for them, with or without couplers and/or wheelsets. Especially needed are six wheel trucks. Even rusty trucks are worth something. So, if you have some AF sheet metal link coupler trucks lying around from conversions to knuckle coupler or scale trucks, e-mail me with quantities and asking price. I will pay postage. Joe == Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1919	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/8/1999
Subject: (Not Trains) grade school class project

Hi all, I hope you don't mind, but I just got this from a family friend, via an educational institution, so I believe it to be legit, and thought it would be fun for our group to help them out, especially our overseas members! So here's the message I received: We are a fourth grade class at Sieden Prairie School in Matteson, Illinois. Our class has 16 boys and 7 girls. Our school has 360 students. We decided to map an email project for our school because we were curious to see how far email can travel by Internet in the United States. Our project will last just two months, beginning January 22, 1999 and ending March 22, 1999. We would like your help. We ask that: 1. If you receive our email letter, could you email our class back telling us your location. 2. Also, please send our class letter on to 2 more people. Our email address is fourthgrade4b@... I wouldn't worry about doing #2, as by sending to this group I've probably handled that for everyone! Thanks for the indulgence. Now back to trains! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1920	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: 350 Royal

Check eBay, there are several (serif with handrails, and block without) for sale right now. Some how it seems either feast or famine when your looking for something specific. Enjoy!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1921	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 162

"David Dewey" <djdewey@...> says, >Subject: (Not Trains) grade school class project >Hi all, > I hope you don't mind, but I just got this from a family friend, via an educational institution, so I believe it to be legit, and thought it would be fun for our group to help them out, especially our overseas members! So here's the message I received: We are a fourth grade class at Sieden Prairie School in Matteson, Illinois. Our class has 16 boys and 7 girls. Our school has 360 students. We decided to map an email project for our school because we were curious to see how far email can travel by Internet in the United States. Our project will last just two months, beginning January 22, 1999 and ending March 22, 1999. We would like your help. We ask that: 1. If you receive our email letter, could you email our class back telling us your location. 2. Also, please send our class letter on to 2 more people. Our email address is fourthgrade4b@... >I wouldn't worry about doing #2, as by sending to this group I've probably >handled that for everyone! >Thanks for the indulgence. >Now back to trains! >S' >David D. David, interesting. I received this same message from one of my nephews in Ohio on 3/8/99. I sent a reply and it bounced because their yahoo bax was full! charles day MI

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1922	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 162

Joe Pereira says, >Earlier this year someone mentioned that American Flyer once had a branch >plant in Canada, but couldn't remember where. >I have just seen an All Aboard set merketed during the middle 1960s by >A.C. Gilbert of Canada Ltd., head office Burlington, Ontario. >Does this jog anyone's memoery? >More if as and when I receive it. Thanks Joe, I never knew the name of the town, only that there was reference to a "factory" in Canada. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1923	From: John E. Dalton	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: UPDATE: S Gaugian index project

Michael, Just saw your 3 links from 2/19. What a great job your doing for u"S". Way to go! JED

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1924	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Maine Show?

Does anyone know about the show on Saturday in Augusta, Maine?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1925	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Proto-Finescale!!

This particular reference has its history back in the Eighties when the NMRA Standards Committee was looking at the growing interest in 1/4"AAR Finescale, Early days PROTO:48 and other PROTO: like efforts in other scales. It was deemed (probably quite rightly so) that this was territory fit for inclusion into NMRA standards and recommended practices. Part of the evaluation process was to take into account current resources, manufacturing ...real or intended. As a result some scales had their PROTO:XX RP's etc ratified. "S" and "HO" were viewed as having not quite what it took to take it over the line into ratification of their PROTO: specs. These were then decribed as "Finescale". This is where the reference to Proto-Finescale comes from, this heading takes on both types of specs. It does not mean that Proto is Finescale as such, since for the purposes of the exercise they are "different" however it goes without saying (but I"LL say it) that PROTO specs are an area of finescale modelling. :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1926	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Proto:64 (for those vetting!!)

May I be so bold as to suggest that this discussion is essentially around what might be termed the laws ( as in government) as it applies to what we are to call PROTO:64 and its cousins (various specific interests) Just as in Law ( sorry no pun meant) there is the letter of the law, and there is the spirit of the law. Apply this to the concept of PROTO:64 and we have the letter, that which can be defined by standards and/or RP's specs etct etc. As it happens this can only really be applied to track and wheels. Then there is the Spirit, now this embodies the attititude, the aspirations, desires of what this kind of modelling is about, this IS open to interpretation, whereas the previous "letter" is esentially a fixed entity. This ananlogy can be applied to most any specific interest, and in some cases there would be no real applicable "letter" on ly the "spirit" But this is only one mans opinion. :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1927	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Schwan's Truck

Hi all, I just email Schwans the other day, and here is the reply I recieved. Looks like some of us are going to have to eat a lot of Ice Cream! S David D. Schwan's is offering a replica of a 1946 dodge panel truck that was the first Schwan's delivery truck. It is offered in the Spring catalog. It can be purchased with 2 proofs of purchase from Schwan's ice cream containers and $4.00 for each truck ordered. It is a 1/64 scale model and is 3 3/4 inches long. We are sending you a catalog, the offer is in the catalog. Thank You

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1928	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: eBay Strikes again!

Well, I just viewed today's auctions on eBay, and someone has two Racing Champion cars up for bid, and they're are both now over $15!!! Now when you add average shipping, someone's gonna pay around $20 for each of these puppies. I'd better buy everyone I can find and put them on eBay!!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1929	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: chrome Rockets

...how hard is it to find a pair of Chrome Rockets with really good chrome? what would be the cost? Wayne Golden Spike American Flyer Club

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1930	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!

My daughter wanted a Furby, and since they aren't normally available in stores, she wanted me to buy one on Ebay. There are Furby's being auctioned off like crazy, with most going for double the normal retail price of $30. These profiteers are gouging people like us who just want one for our kids. I told her, "No, they aren't going to profit from me." A couple of days later my daughter entered a raffle at school and wins a Furby! Life is good. ---David Dewey <djdewey@...> wrote: > > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Well, I just viewed today's auctions on eBay, and someone has two Racing > Champion cars up for bid, and they're are both now over $15!!! Now when you > add average shipping, someone's gonna pay around $20 for each of these > puppies. I'd better buy everyone I can find and put them on eBay!!! > S' > David D. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms? > http://www.onelist.com > Sign up for a new email list today > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1931	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: chrome Rockets

In a message dated 3/10/99 9:24:20 AM, wayne@... writes: << ...how hard is it to find a pair of Chrome Rockets with really good chrome? what would be the cost? Wayne Golden Spike American Flyer Club >> If the definition of 'really good' is TCA E or better, then finding a 474/475 pair that is not part of a set is fairly difficult these days. I looked for several years in an effort to replace a pair in a set that I had enjoyed to death as a youngster. I finally came across two nice pair within 30 feet of each other at York last spring. I picked what I thought was the better pair of the two, negotiated, and paid $385.00. Part of the problem is that chrome Rockets were variable in their quality of appearance as they left New Haven in 1953 due to production headaches. It is no coincidence that Gilbert went back to satin silver in 1954. They are findable, but patience will be a virtue. Collecting chrome is a bit of pain, but really nice examples (e.g., 405, 466, 474/475, 477/478, etc.) are very striking and are worth the effort. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1932	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Lledo scale

Ted Larson wrote: >I checked the Lledo site, and most >of their models do not have a scale listed, so it is hard to know if this >is correct size. I wrote to Lledo and asked them. I suggest that >others who want Lledo to tell us the scale of their vehicles do >the same. Ted, I went there and wrote a very nice letter requesting scale info on the products, then I went through the site. I should have done this in reverse. Lledo has two separate collectors clubs, one for 1:43 and one for 1:64. Go to: http://www.lledo.com/club.html and see for yourself. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1933	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: chrome Rockets

Wayne, 1) Really hard, the plating process AC used doesn't age well, even less well when natural hand oils come in contact with it. 2) Whatever the market will bear! Mint chromed pieces are a real premium, and you're up against 'the big boys' when they show up. (Having said that, you'll trip over a mint pair at a yard sale or junk store and show that I'm all wrong!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1934	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Gilbert in Canada

In 1965 A.C. Gilbert of Canada Ltd. occupied premises at 2422 Fairview St., Burlington Ontario. (Now owned and occupied by a food-service company which appears to have no phone!). The president was J.C. Downey. Any of you Flyer buffs ever hear of Downey? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1935	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Digest Number 163 -Reply

sale right now. Some how it seems either feast or famine when your looking for something specific. Enjoy!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1936	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 162

"David Dewey" <djdewey@...> says, >Subject: (Not Trains) grade school class project >Hi all, > I hope you don't mind, but I just got this from a family friend, via an educational institution, so I believe it to be legit, and thought it would be fun for our group to help them out, especially our overseas members! So here's the message I received: We are a fourth grade class at Sieden Prairie School in Matteson, Illinois. Our class has 16 boys and 7 girls. Our school has 360 students. We decided to map an email project for our school because we were curious to see how far email can travel by Internet in the United States. Our project will last just two months, beginning January 22, 1999 and ending March 22, 1999. We would like your help. We ask that: 1. If you receive our email letter, could you email our class back telling us your location. 2. Also, please send our class letter on to 2 more people. Our email address is fourthgrade4b@... >I wouldn't worry about doing #2, as by sending to this group I've probably >handled that for everyone! >Thanks for the indulgence. >Now back to trains! >S' >David D. David, interesting. I received this same message from one of my nephews in Ohio on 3/8/99. I sent a reply and it bounced because their yahoo bax was full! charles day MI

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1937	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 162

Joe Pereira says, >Earlier this year someone mentioned that American Flyer once had a branch >plant in Canada, but couldn't remember where. >I have just seen an All Aboard set merketed during the middle 1960s by >A.C. Gilbert of Canada Ltd., head office Burlington, Ontario. >Does this jog anyone's memoery? >More if as and when I receive it. Thanks Joe, I never knew the name of the town, only that there was reference to a "factory" in Canada. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1938	From: John E. Dalton	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: UPDATE: S Gaugian index project

Michael, Just saw your 3 links from 2/19. What a great job your doing for u"S". Way to go! JED

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1939	From: AFSTrains@aol.com	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Maine Show?

Does anyone know about the show on Saturday in Augusta, Maine?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1940	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Proto-Finescale!!

This particular reference has its history back in the Eighties when the NMRA Standards Committee was looking at the growing interest in 1/4"AAR Finescale, Early days PROTO:48 and other PROTO: like efforts in other scales. It was deemed (probably quite rightly so) that this was territory fit for inclusion into NMRA standards and recommended practices. Part of the evaluation process was to take into account current resources, manufacturing ...real or intended. As a result some scales had their PROTO:XX RP's etc ratified. "S" and "HO" were viewed as having not quite what it took to take it over the line into ratification of their PROTO: specs. These were then decribed as "Finescale". This is where the reference to Proto-Finescale comes from, this heading takes on both types of specs. It does not mean that Proto is Finescale as such, since for the purposes of the exercise they are "different" however it goes without saying (but I"LL say it) that PROTO specs are an area of finescale modelling. :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1941	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Proto:64 (for those vetting!!)

May I be so bold as to suggest that this discussion is essentially around what might be termed the laws ( as in government) as it applies to what we are to call PROTO:64 and its cousins (various specific interests) Just as in Law ( sorry no pun meant) there is the letter of the law, and there is the spirit of the law. Apply this to the concept of PROTO:64 and we have the letter, that which can be defined by standards and/or RP's specs etct etc. As it happens this can only really be applied to track and wheels. Then there is the Spirit, now this embodies the attititude, the aspirations, desires of what this kind of modelling is about, this IS open to interpretation, whereas the previous "letter" is esentially a fixed entity. This ananlogy can be applied to most any specific interest, and in some cases there would be no real applicable "letter" on ly the "spirit" But this is only one mans opinion. :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1942	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: Schwan's Truck

Hi all, I just email Schwans the other day, and here is the reply I recieved. Looks like some of us are going to have to eat a lot of Ice Cream! S David D. Schwan's is offering a replica of a 1946 dodge panel truck that was the first Schwan's delivery truck. It is offered in the Spring catalog. It can be purchased with 2 proofs of purchase from Schwan's ice cream containers and $4.00 for each truck ordered. It is a 1/64 scale model and is 3 3/4 inches long. We are sending you a catalog, the offer is in the catalog. Thank You

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1943	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/9/1999
Subject: eBay Strikes again!

Well, I just viewed today's auctions on eBay, and someone has two Racing Champion cars up for bid, and they're are both now over $15!!! Now when you add average shipping, someone's gonna pay around $20 for each of these puppies. I'd better buy everyone I can find and put them on eBay!!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1945	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!

In a message dated 3/10/99 2:51:46 PM !!!First Boot!!!, imsscott@... writes: << From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> My daughter wanted a Furby, and since they aren't normally available in stores, she wanted me to buy one on Ebay. There are Furby's being auctioned off like crazy, with most going for double the normal retail price of $30. These profiteers are gouging people like us who just want one for our kids. I told her, "No, they aren't going to profit from me." A couple of days later my daughter entered a raffle at school and wins a Furby! Life is good. >> Why do people INSIST on blaming E-Bay for the actions of the bidders, and sellers?????? No one is sitting there forcing the buyers to bid the amounts they do. Even the sellers are not to blame as they are not running the bids up.... its the buyers. E-Bay is NOT controlling anything, they are simply the messenger. So there are no Gougers or profiteers here, just bidders who pay what they are willing to shell out for an item. Let get and keep the facts straight.....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1946	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!

I did not mean to imply blame for anything on eBay, just that stuff there often sells for what seems to me to be astronomical prices. I sell there too, mostly because of that. That way I have more $$$ to spend (elsewhere!) on my trains! It's the old PT Barnum philosophy at work, "for every rube, there's two to take 'em." S' David D PS, I have gotten a good buy or two on eBay too, but not since they've started advertising nationally on Radio, etc.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1947	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Does anyone have any information on the museum in New Haven Ct. that has exhibits on A.C. Gilbert? I understand it is called the Whitney museum, but there are two museums in New Haven that have Whitney in their names. I would like name, address, hours, phone number, info on the Gilbert stuff, and website address if anyone has these. Thanks. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1948	From: Bill Banta	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!

Hear! Hear! It is a market driven economy. If the buyers are nuts enough to bid that high, then so be it. It is or should be common knowledge that auctions can and do produce more return than a classified ad. Just listen in on the next NMRA auction or similar train show aution. E-bay is not a retail store. b. banta

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1949	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!

In a message dated 3/10/99 9:51:02 PM !!!First Boot!!!, imsscott@... writes: << And what's with the INSIST on blaming Ebay? >> I say that because every time someone posts about this company they always blame the company. Example??..... Ok. The title of this original post. "E-Bay strikes again!"...... Not idiot bidders, not hoarding sellers, not foolhardy bidders, but E-Bay.... my point proved. E-Bay had nothing to do with it. They simply provide the open forum. As far as the hoarding, its no different than scalping tickets for a concert or a ball game. We don't blame the band, or the team, or the stadium/arena in that case, why put down E-Bay? I do agree, however, that its the buyers who justify what the seller does. Be it buying their wares, hoarded, overpriced, or what ever. Its been a problem with trains at shows since I started collecting back in the 70's. Items priced way over market value, items in G condition, or any condition for that matter, priced at EX or better. Seems that when folks look up a price its - find the item by number and then look for the highest dollar amout to the right. This would stop if people stopped buying these misgraded, and/or over prived items. In certain parts of the country this does happen, and it was interesting to see, however welcome.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1950	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/10/1999
Subject: Re: eBay (forum) Strikes again!

Since I was the original poster, I can say with certainty that the heading "eBay Strikes Again" was not meant to be a slur on eBay itself, so I have modified the title to make this somewhat more clearer. I was discussing the eBay sites' auction fever that seems to provide higher prices than I'm sure most of us who have 'been around the block' are willing to pay for items. That was the sum of it, and I tried to make light of it by declaring my thought of buying all the Racing Champion cars I can find, to sell them there and end up with 'big bucks'. Do I have time to do that, no way! But I do know what I'm going to do with some surplus stuff I have around here, and maybe I can afford some more trains by doing it! (So I can't be too unhappy with eBay, since I'm using it). I do notice that Charles Siegel is now using eBay too for some of his items. Interesting trend. S' David Dewey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1951	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 164

If Im not mistaken....i believe theres a set of Chrome A and B units on E-Bay this very moment!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1952	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: Whitney Museum

In a message dated 3/11/99 3:39:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, S- Trains@onelist.com writes: << Does anyone have any information on the museum in New Haven Ct. >> It's called the Eli Whitney Museum and it is located in Hamden, CT (on the border of New Haven and Hamden) 915 Whitney Avenue. Their phone number is 203-777-1833. They do have e-mail and probably a web page, however, I don't know the address. Good luck, RV

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1953	From: MARIA W BRYAN	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Dear Tom: Its officially called the Eli Whitney Museum. The address is 915 Whitney Avenue, New Haven, Connecticut. The telephone number is (203) 777-1833. Its director is Mr. Bill Brown. He is a real authority on the A.C. Gilbert Company, and particularly its manufacturing of electric trains. Bobby T. Bryan, Jr. Farmington, CT

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1954	From: Bill Banta	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay (forum) Strikes again!

David Dewey, You are forgiven.... :-) bill b......

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1955	From: J. Row	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!

AMEN! If one can't afford to take several days off work to go to York or some other "Neat Place" where there are lots of trains, why not use eBay and get what is needed to enhance a collection or layout? Sure, sometimes (but not always)the price is a bit high, but, price is in the eye of the beholder! If you've got access to better deals somewhere else, take'em! And if you've a mind to, tell the rest of us where that is! Don't like eBay? Don't go there! If you are looking for something (a car, accessory, parts, paper?) it's a great place to go window shopping and not at all unusual to fill a need at a fair price. Not unusual to pay too much too (but that's a personal evaluation). row@... Trains16@... wrote: > > From: Trains16@... > > In a message dated 3/10/99 2:51:46 PM !!!First Boot!!!, imsscott@... > writes: > > << From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > My daughter wanted a Furby, and since they aren't normally available > in stores, she wanted me to buy one on Ebay. There are Furby's being > auctioned off like crazy, with most going for double the normal retail > price of $30. These profiteers are gouging people like us who just > want one for our kids. I told her, "No, they aren't going to profit > from me." A couple of days later my daughter entered a raffle at > school and wins a Furby! Life is good. >> > > Why do people INSIST on blaming E-Bay for the actions of the bidders, and > sellers?????? No one is sitting there forcing the buyers to bid the amounts > they do. Even the sellers are not to blame as they are not running the bids > up.... its the buyers. E-Bay is NOT controlling anything, they are simply the > messenger. So there are no Gougers or profiteers here, just bidders who pay > what they are willing to shell out for an item. Let get and keep the facts > straight..... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the Member Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1956	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Sorry

I apologize for the weird excerpt I posted in Digest No. 164. Our LAN has been acting squirrely the last couple of days, and when I thought I hit the "Close" button, it turned out to be the "Send" button. I retracted the message within 60 seconds, but it was too late. Such is the speed of cyberspace. While I have you here, I thought it was interesting that Digest No. 164 happened to occur within five days of National S Gauging Day, March 16, 1999 (3/16). I urge all of you to publicize it (it has a blurb in my newsletter, the S Say), and to celebrate next Tuesday by giving your 3/16" trains a spin around the track. Also--just received the Crown Models Pacific Fruit Express reefers from Port Lines Hobby, and they're indeed beautiful! Better get yours soon! They bring back fond memories of my boyhood here in the West. Thanks, Doug. YourS, John Eichmann Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1957	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Oops! (and advice request)

Picked up a 1950 vintage freight set last week at an antiques mall - this was the low end set with 300AC engine, 638,639,640. There was also a 631 and all orignal boxes, including the little block of wood. The engine runs but the tender needs to be repainted and the coupler replaced. The cars were in very good condition. Not bad, I figured, for $32. Anyway, as I always do, I rinsed the cars off under running water to remove the dirt. To my shock, the ink(?) started to run right off the 639 (the bright yellow one with printed 639 shield)! Instead of the well preserved lettering and logo, I now have about 45% degradation. Never happened before. Two questions: 1. I have some extra link couplers. Any advice on the best procedure for the replacement? 2. Anyway I can fix my goof on the lettering? I've thought about making a stencil or a decal. Is it even worth the effort? -Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1958	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!

---Trains16@... wrote: >So there are no Gougers or profiteers here, just bidders who pay what they are willing to shell out for an item. Let get and keep the facts straight..... Anybody who goes and buys out all the currently hot children's toy so they can turn right around and auction them off at a 100% profit is a profiteer. I've got the facts straight. This isn't much different than ticket scalping, which is illegal in many places. In fact, the practice of buying items in short supply and selling them at online auctions may get completely out of hand and then the government will have to step in and regulate it. If we have another gas crisis will many of us have to buy gasoline at an internet auction? >No one is sitting there forcing the buyers to bid the amounts they do. How about their kids? Ever been pestered unmercifully into doing something? What does this have to do with trains? Nothing! Ebay is a great place to find Flyer stuff. Just try not to get carried away and bid smart. Find out as much as you can, ask the seller questions, look at previous auctions, ...etc.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1959	From: FANN, ROBERT	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Auctions and other sales

Trains16@... said, among other things: "...Items priced way over market value, items in G condition, or any condition for that matter, priced at EX or better...." Reminds me of several train show/sales I attended in the Cleveland, Ohio, area during the mid to late '80s. Every time a "legitimate" show would be scheduled, a certain individual acting under cover of some "railroad retirement" organization would book his show into the same neighborhood a week or two earlier, drawing off business in advance of the other show. The sellers at these "claim jumper" shows ran some of the most blatant scams I've ever seen in broad daylight. Of course they couldn't fool the experienced collectors, but the public were shelling out hundreds for shoddy repaints marked "Mint." I specifically remember one common L-brand O-27 Hudson with *gloss* black sprayed over obvious dents and dings, and a blatant decal on the cab, marked Mint with a price of "only" $299! (I stood near the dealer's table, warning would-be customers, until the guy threatened pyisical violence.) And this was where the customers could see what they were getting -- I can only imagine what's being done through on-line auctions. But I still have some (naive?) faith in the basic decency of mankind, so I hope that most of what is offered is actually as represented. At least, when I offer my McClintock books as "mint, never opened," they are just that. (Of course, if you do open one, it'll probably fall apart....) Bob Fann

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1960	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: (no subject)

So you TCA types never sell any shoddy repaints, eh? What do you do with them, bury them in the garden?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1961	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: Oops! (and advice request)

Hi Roy, Neat find. Yep, the white ink on early (well, probably all of it, actually) is printers' ink, I believe rubber stamped on, and it sometimes is real fragile! I understand that some new stamps are available, at least for the tender lettering. And what a neat segue into the next answer! Before you go through the trouble of repainting the tender, ask around and check train shows, I've found nearly mint shells very cheap, less work than repainting! I may even have an extra here, but my steam loco project boxes are buried deep right now.--you'll probably find one there long before I get to my boxes here! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1962	From: Heine, David L.	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Outside Frame Locomotives

Ted Larson asked what was meant by an "outside frame". I sent him the following and decided to also post it to this list. Ted, The term "outside frame" when referred to a steam locomotive means that the driving wheels are inside the locomotive's frame. (The locomotive's frame is "outside" the driving wheels.) "Outside" frames were used on some early standard gauge locomotives, but are mostly commonly thought of as a narrow gauge concept. It allows for a wider firebox between the side frames, and were also thought to make the locomotive more stable. On most narrow gauge outside frame locomotives, the counterweights were located on the cranks, which are outside the frame. Sometimes there were also counterweights on the drivers, especially the main drivers. Many of the larger narrow gauge locomotives of more modern vintage (1900's) were outside frame, but not all. For example, the larger D&RGW 3' gauge 2-8-0's (C-21, C-25), and all their 2-8-2's (K-27, K-28, K-36, K-37) were all outside frame. The East Broad Top's 2-8-2's were not. The White Pass & Yukon had some similarly sized 2-8-2's that were not, but they all received some of the D&RGW's K-28's in W.W.II and wore them out. As the gauge gets narrower, smaller locomotives had outside frames. For example the Maine 2' gauge railroads had some outside framed 0-4-4T Forneys. All the "large" 2' gauge locomotives I know of were outside frame. In the US the largest was a SR&RL 2-6-2, but railroads in other countries had larger locomotives, again with outside frames. Hope this answers your question. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1963	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

In a message dated 3/11/99 11:41:38 AM, jarcho@... writes: << So you TCA types never sell any shoddy repaints, eh? What do you do with them, bury them in the garden? >> Well, most of us in the TCA do properly mark the item as 'restored', price it accordingly, and explain to the potential customer what he/she is buying. In the case of Flyer, the TCA community is limited in size. A bad reputation would spread quickly and be hard to remedy whether one was tossed out of the TCA or not. Over the years I have found the TCA American Flyer community to be a pretty good bunch overall (with one serious exception in NY!). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1964	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: Oops! (and advice request)

On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, David Dewey wrote: > Hi Roy, > Neat find. Yep, the white ink on early (well, probably all of it, > actually) is printers' ink, I believe rubber stamped on, and it sometimes is > real fragile! I suspected as much, though in this case it is black ink. > I understand that some new stamps are available, at least for > the tender lettering. Anyone know about this? (Doug P.?) How difficult/expensive would it be to have a stamp made? As fro painting the tender - yes, I've seem at shows. On the other hand, I do have paint (Krylon semi flat) that does a nice job. I'll also need the lettering and logo, of course. I'll have think about it. Thanks -Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1965	From: Dave Silva	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: lionel coaling station

Yes--I know we are all S gaugers, but I have a problem and need help. My son, who is 31 and lives apart from me asked if I would get his Lionel coaling station from the attic and see if it worked. It looks to be in good shape, but there is only one wire coming out of the controller. Is this correct or should there be two wires? Help!! Honest guys, I am an American Flyer guy. I don't know where my son went wrong. Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1966	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!

In a message dated 3/11/99 6:30:04 PM !!!First Boot!!!, imsscott@... writes: << Anybody who goes and buys out all the currently hot children's toy so they can turn right around and auction them off at a 100% profit is a profiteer.>> Thats the free market enterprise... get over it. Sounds like someone lost out and is holding a grudge. It happens. Its no different that folks running thru a meet before it opens, and snapping up all the deals and taking the items back to their table and upping the price. Sure its aggrivating, but there isn't much we can do short of refusing to buy from that dealer until they play fair ball. Just try enforcing that.... I have refuse to sell items at a reduced price to those type of dealers. They pay full price or they can get lost. I want the average Joe to buy from me to enjoy. Its just my little part. As has been said here before, if you don't like the price, don't shell out the bucks. If you don't like the store... don't shop there. <<I've got the facts straight. >> I think not.... your still crying foul over something that is not wrong. Its just the way it is in the free enterprise system, thats da fact Jack. In addition, you cannot blame E-Bay for what the sellers do. >>This isn't much different than ticket scalping, which is illegal in many places. In fact, the practice of buying items in short supply and selling them at online auctions may get completely out of hand and then the government will have to step in and regulate it. If we have another gas crisis will many of us have to buy gasoline at an internet auction? >> This is what I just said in a previous post..... still, we cannot blame E- Bay. In case there was diffculty reading the previous post. It said, we do not blame the Band, or the Team, or the Stadium/Arena when scalpers do their thing. So why are we blaming EBay, its not their fault the sellers do what they do. We need to blame the scalpers in that case because those sales are regulated. E-Bay sales are not regulated nor is any of the auction industry. The last I recall, selling items at a profit, or over some set retail listed price is not illegal.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1967	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Something new

Hi All, thought I'd try this to see if it works on our group. I'm going to send a photo with this message in .jpg format, maybe we can share photos of our stuff with each other this way? If it doesn't work, my apologies in advance. (Hmm, I seem to be starting controversial stuff a bit lately, never thought my 'eBay' comment would go so far!) This is a photo of a Christmas tree layout at my parents' house back in '76 (I think). Three trains at once, my 'daylight' heavywieghts (some cars I found that were modified and painted when I bought them--and when I stripped them I discovered they had been a 5 digit green set!), middle loop is a freight, and inner loop the Silver Bullet is pulling some streamline cars. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1968	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Strikes again!

What ever.... you will never get the point. No sense in belaboring the point and tying up the board when you will not ever understand or listen. STRING ENDED!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1969	From: John Foley	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: NASG UP Boxcar

To The Folks who ordered a car Just a quick note to let you know that I haven't got delivery of the Pacific Rails shop NASG UP Boxcar. I hope to soon. All Address labels, Box's and Post office forms are filled out and ready. Sorry for delay. If you would like to confirm your order please e-mail me. John Foley Eastern VP NASG foley164@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1970	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: OFF TOPIC/could apply to us/FUNNY

Again, if you are annoyed by off-topic stuff, just delete now. I got this from another list I subscribe to (old phonograph records), but it certainly could apply to ANY list. I wanted to share, as it had me laughing. Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1,343 : 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed; 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently; 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs; 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs; 53 to flame the spell checkers; 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames; 6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb"; another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive; 156 to write to the list administrator about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list; 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take this email exchange to litebulb-l; 203 to demand that cross posting to grammar-l, spelling-l and illuminati-l about changing light bulbs be stopped; 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this mail list; 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty; 27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs; 14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and to post the corrected URL's; 3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list; 33 to link all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers and then add "Me too"; 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy; 19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three"; 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ; 44 to ask what is "FAQ"; 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago on Usenet?" 143 to ask "what's Usenet?"

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1971	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: KayBee

Kay Bee has Matchbox on sale for $.49 In addition to the many modern vehicles that Matchbox typically has, the store that I went to also had many of the EXCELLENTLY detailed and proper size '56 Ford PU. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Jesse for President! ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1972	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: OFF TOPIC/could apply to us/FUNNY

Me too! <BG> ROFL, David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1973	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Need to know

Hi S, I was here before to see if someone could help but no luck, let me try again. I have a 4-8-4 # 332 and I need to know if it have silver lettering or white lettering, I just can't tell. My mother (83) tells me that my farther (who is no longer here) got this train in 1947 before I was born (she remembers well) I am now 51and when I leave this place there is no one to pass it to, so I'm selling soon. There is some other cars in a box like passenger cars and some freight cars. It also have a Rectiformer or a Rectifier in the box so this may be a DC. Which type of cars goes with this 4-8-4 ?? And how can I tell about the lettering ?? If you need more info please write. Thanks, gpmlg PS. Some of you guys are really going around and around about that e-aby, well I check it out and you may see this train on there one day.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1974	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: off topic

might it not not be 1344 as the moderator will kick in to tell you all to get a life!! :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1975	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: Re: Need to know

GPMLG@... wrote: > > From: GPMLG@... > > Hi S, > I was here before to see if someone could help but no luck, let me try again. > I have a 4-8-4 # 332 and I need to know if it have silver lettering or > white lettering, I just can't tell. > My mother (83) tells me that my farther (who is no longer here) got this train > in 1947 before I was born (she remembers well) I am now 51and when I leave > this place there is no one to pass it to, so I'm selling soon. > There is some other cars in a box like passenger cars and some freight cars. > It also have a Rectiformer or a Rectifier in the box so this may be a DC. > Which type of cars goes with this 4-8-4 ?? And how can I tell about the > lettering ?? The early Flyers from 1946 and maybe 1947 had silver engine & tender lettering, and for the prototype rsilrosd, not Americsn Flyer Lines. I can't hellp you with the cars but I seem to remember there was a set with both passenger and freight cars. Someone with a '46 catalog can verify this. -- "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1976	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: S gondola and boxcar

The March Mainline Modeler has S scale drawings of a BC Rail boxcar and Evans gondola. Would be good scratchbuilding projects although the boxcar roof might be a huge problem. cheers Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1977	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/11/1999
Subject: eeeeEEEE-BAYYyyyyy

Consider that some people have more $$$ than time. Consider also that chasing around trying to find something IN STOCK costs gasoline and other car expenses. For many folk, spending an extra few bucks on e-Bay is much CHEAPER for them than getting to the store themselves! Those of you who have made multiple trips to the store hoping to find that certain ME car in stock know the truth of it! And if you happen to be the seller, everybody is happy, everybody wins! Anybody wanna buy some Mint Edition cars? I still have a spare '64 Chev! Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Jesse for President! ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1978	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Trains on the web

Jerry Poniatowski sent me some pictures that you MUST all see. He scratch built a shell for a Budd car and adapted an AM RS-3 chassis. It looks gorgeous. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/budd/budd.htm He tells me he has lots of other interesting projects. Please tell him thanks for sharing. I added a few other things, but I will let you stumble accross them on your own. I think I have all the Crown boxcars, my favorite is the Pacific Fruit Express, based only on the color and graphics. Well Done! I will try and get some pictures done this weekend. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1979	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Gilbert in Canada

As reported earlier, in 1965 A.C. Gilbert of Canada Ltd. occupied premises at 2422 Fairview St., Burlington ON. Unfortunately the 1965 building no longer exists. The lot is now occupied by a Swiss Chalet restaurant built in 1978, with a five-year-old bank on one side and a 30-year-old gas station on the other. There is reason to hope that the history of the property can be reconstructed, so we will know how long Gilbert was there. As to what he did there, evidence has now come to light suggesting that transformers were made there. This, too, is being pursued. In other research developments, Gilbert may have had an earlier Canadian operation in another city, and he may at some point have bought a Canadian toy company. True to my motto, which is "Onward to Yesterday," I will keep digging, and you will hear the results. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1980	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Re: curious george

I went on that S-Train@onelist.com ( Do you know about them ?) and got a lot of help. Now I'm getting excited about all of this. I called my mother and she said that they maybe more trains around there. She lives in a big house in Chas, SC, so I'll plan a trip in the spring to see. And when I do I will let you know what I find. Yes, lets keep on touch.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1981	From: RBaratta@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: 485

Hi Folks: I am trying to locate a "B" unit to match to my Alco Santa Fe blue & yellow 484 "A" and 486 "B" units. The unit number is 485. I'm not a collector just trying to put my set back together. Thank you friends for any help. Later...... Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1982	From: Dave Silva	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Lionel coaling station

Thanks for answering my questions. I tried it last night and it actually worked. Thanks especially to David Dewey--Dave Silva

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1983	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Re: 485

Bob, Your 484/486 pair may be "complete". Some three digit Santa Fe freight scheme Alcos were combined as uncatalogued AA pairs for separate sale. Your desire to obtain a 485 and make a ABA combo is very understandable, however. Good luck! RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1984	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Needed to know

Dear S -Train Guys, Just want to thanks you all for helping me find out about my 332. Also in the box was some picturs from 1953 (a layout) and if anyone want to see them let me know . I made a call to my mother in Charleston, SC and she believe that there are more trains there, so I'll be making a trip soon to find out. I'm in NJ which is a 12 hour drive and it maybe worth the trip. Will let you all know. Again thanks curious George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1985	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/12/1999
Subject: Flyer bulkhead flat

Can someone please give me the measurement between bulkheads on Flyer car # 48505 (I.C.G. flat)? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1986	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/13/1999
Subject: Flyer transformers

Does anyone have a Flyer transformer which carries the initials UL (Underwriters' Laboratories) PLUS the initials CSA (Canadian Standards Association)? I will be grateful for particulars. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1987	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 3/13/1999
Subject: A Question of scale

All, I'm still a bit of a novice to model trains and the implementation of scale in train accessories still bugs me. A local train shop is going out of biz and they had really good prices on some 1/64 scale 18-wheeler trucks (well seemed good to me). So I bought one to go with the AF train I'm returning to service. When I got home, I discovered that the new truck was the exact same size as the truck that came with the kids Lionel starter train. Now, I've always thought that the Lionel truck was a bit small, but this seems to confirm it. Or does it? Does Lionel mix the scales of items in it's train sets? Am I confused? Did I buy a mismarked truck? For grins, the tractor, bumper to mud flaps, is 5 3/16" and the trailer is 8 5/16". It still seems a bit small next to the AF engine, but really small next to the Lionel engine. Is this the right size for 'S'? Thanks, Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1988	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 3/13/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer transformers

I have an AF 22004 40-watt transformer that is marked both UL and CSA. This is a 1960's item. The UL and CSA marks are stamped into the metal base of the transformer. You have to turn it over and look on the bottom to find them. Just out of curiosity......why is this important? Does the electrical code in Canada require you to have the CSA mark? At 07:04 AM 3/13/99 -0700, sigma@... wrote: >From: sigma@... > >Does anyone have a Flyer transformer which carries the initials UL >(Underwriters' Laboratories) PLUS the initials CSA (Canadian Standards >Association)? >I will be grateful for particulars. >Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >If you like orange and blue, then you will love our new web site! >http://www.onelist.com >Onelist: Fostering connections and information exchange >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1989	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/13/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Are you sure that CSA on a transformer doesn't mean that it was manufactured in the South? TJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1990	From: Brian Johns	Date: 3/13/1999
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1991	From: mlambert@venus.net	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: numeric codes for all flyer???

> Hi I have an unopened carton of 12 A,F. reverse switches with the > numbers1 9257 on the case or carton. There are also three letters on the > box, and they are DFB. The box measures 3 5/8 D x 4 3/4 H x 5 1/2 W. I > have had this item for about 2 years and haven't opened it. My questions > are what are they? When were they made. And what all did A.C Gilbert > make reverse switches for. The measurements of the box indicates that 12 > reverse switches for trains could fit. the numbers could shed some light > on the subject if a person new Gilberts numeric code. If anyone knows > anything about such matters please let me know. > TRAINS ON THE BRAIN > M.A.Lambert >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1992	From: Hilary Smith	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Using HO Power Chassis in S Scale

Fellow Listers: I am curious about the feasibility of using HO power chassis as a basis for S scale models. For example, the Milwaukee's EF-1 boxcabs had 10' or 10' 6" between traction motor centerlines, and 21' 3" between truck centerlines. An SD-7 has 13' 7" between the outer axles of the "C" truck and 35' between truck centers. Converting that to S gives 9.99' between axles, and 25' 9" between trucks -- perhaps a good starting point. With the HO P2K SD9, for example, the axles extend into the side frames, so there MIGHT be enough room left to slip on some Alan Gibson wheels. I would very much appreciate any personal experience, second-hand experience, references to articles, thoughts off the top of your head, or snide remarks. Hilary Smith Northern Virginia

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1993	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: numeric codes for all flyer???

Hmm, I don't know what the switches are for, but the DFB would indicate a box date of April, 1962--if the box coding for set boxes applies. ( Ref: AF G Gauge, Vol III) The part number, though, sounds pre-war??????? S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1994	From: michael prell	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Ya,Man! far out Pre-war! ---Jarcho <jarcho@...> wrote: > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > Are you sure that CSA on a transformer doesn't mean that it was > manufactured in the South? TJ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? > http://www.onelist.com > Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1995	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Transformers

Tom, CSA, ya dad burn right, many had gray cords fur a reason!!!!!! Gale Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1996	From: Allen Evans	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Double Decker Bus and Bedford Truck

High Detail 1/64 Double-Decker Bus AND 1950 Bedford Truck !! Available in the Collectibles Section at the World Famous MoonPie Company in Chattanooga!! http://www.moonpie.com/collectables_body.htm Allen Evans Covington, Lousiana

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1997	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Right! In the South: South Boston (Southy?) B.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1998	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: Rubber stamps

<<<> I understand that some new stamps are available, at least for > the tender lettering. Anyone know about this? (Doug P.?) How difficult/expensive would it be to have a stamp made? As fro painting the tender - yes, I've seem at shows. On the other hand, I do have paint (Krylon semi flat) that does a nice job. I'll also need the lettering and logo, of course. I'll have think about it. Thanks >>> We have almost 100 different rubber stamps available for AF restoration. MOST of them are engine/tender stamps (i.e, engine cab-numbers, tender logos, and tender lettering), but there are a few additional ones as well. Since these are generally only of interest to a serious restorer who will use them multiple times, we only produced a small run of each stamp, and we have an option for a 2nd run down-the-line. But that will be the end of them. Why are these "top-quality"?????? Because they are made by actually photographing the original lettering on the tender (or whatever), enlarging it on computer, "cleaning it up", shrinking it back to original size, and producing the rubber-stamp from the computer image. These were not "Go to the store and try to match this" rubber stamps!!!!! That's also why they are somewhat more expensive than you might expect.......although I really don't think that $7 to $15 each is unreasonable; the various tender logo stamps, for example, are $10 each. You can perhaps imagine the investment we had to make in order to produce and stock nearly 100 of these different stamps all at once! They have been selling quite well, and there have been no complaints with the stamps...only a little difficulty finding satisfactory ink.........but I'm working on that too. As for your 639.......I suspect it will be easier for you to locate a top- condition original replacement than to go through all the effort of restoring that one. Chalk it up to a hard lesson learned. BTW (a) No, we don't have the stamps to do that car, and (b) among all the Gilbert equipment I've ever washed and cleaned, I've never had that experience-----at least not with just plain water! But be careful with sprays such as Windex, Formula 409, etc..........those can sometimes make your heart palpitate! And for anyone out there who doesn't already know it , NEVER use Windex or any other product containing ammonia on CHROME.......it's a great STRIPPER of chrome! Hope all this is of help to some of you. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 1999	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Using HO Power Chassis in S Scale

In message <00fa01be6e16$22a30f00$0200000a@home1>, Hilary Smith <hsmith@...> writes >Fellow Listers: > >I am curious about the feasibility of using HO power chassis as a basis for S >scale models. For example, the Milwaukee's EF-1 boxcabs had 10' or 10' 6" >between traction motor centerlines, and 21' 3" between truck centerlines. An >SD-7 has 13' 7" between the outer axles of the "C" truck and 35' between truck >centers. Converting that to S gives 9.99' between axles, and 25' 9" between >trucks -- perhaps a good starting point. With the HO P2K SD9, for example, the >axles extend into the side frames, so there MIGHT be enough room left to slip on >some Alan Gibson wheels. > >I would very much appreciate any personal experience, second-hand experience, >references to articles, thoughts off the top of your head, or snide remarks. > >Hilary Smith >Northern Virginia Hi Hillary The Pennsylvannia Heritage Models 'flexichasis kits' are regauged Athern 4wh trucks and will be used under their Budds, but are also suitable for gas electrics, and interurban cars - best to check wheel diam I think Tom used the HO wheels on longer stub axles...PHM have a WW site I think it can be found via Paul Yorke's Site. Best regards -- Kelvin White Oxford England kelvin@....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2000	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: more power, "Ho, ho, ho."

Hi trainmen, I power my trains with two 30B transformers. I have several accessories (cattle yard, milk car, vehicle transport, etc.) that need to be powered from the track. The problem is the vehicle transport nearly throws the jeep off the table. I decided to use the accessory plug on the 30B to power my electromagnetic crane, and it lifted the tray off its mount. I use a seperate 4B transformer to power switches and bubbling towers (my favorite). Is there a way to reduce the 18 volts from the 30B to 16 volts for the accessories post without affecting the trains. I know little about electronics but have been learning as I go. Thanks, Jacques

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2001	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: more power, "Ho, ho, ho."

Jacques: If your accessories will run on half-wave dc, simply put as many 3 A, 600 PIV silicon diodes as you want in series with the feed to the "over-powered" system. Each diode will drop about 0.6 volts. Try experimenting with a few until you get the right voltage. If you want to run 'em on ac, try a separate transformer. Or, get a Variac, which is a variable "autotransformer" that permits adjusting the primary voltage of a fixed accessory transformer. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-. -------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2002	From: Jarcho	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: jacques o's accessory question

Jacques: my next Roundhouse in S Gaugian will deal with this problem, at least concerning action cars. There are 2 types of accessories involved: those that are involved with track circuits such as the stockyard, and those that are not , such as the magnetic crane. For the crane and other accessories, use a separate transformer or transformers. You can even wire the accessory to the variable voltage post and base post and use the speed control to select the precise voltage at which the accessory operates best. For accessories that are connected to the track circuit such as the stock yard, you can also use a separate transformer. IT MUST BE IN PHASE WITH THE TRACK TRANSFORMER or you can damage both transformers and cause a fire hazard. Once you have the two transformers in phase, connect the base posts together. Then you can connect the accessory to the second transformer as per instructions. Any questions, please e-mail me. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2003	From: Dave Heine	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Re: Using HO Power Chassis in S Scale

I've converted several HO mechanisms to Sn3, which is narrower instead of wider like you want to do. I have not converted a P2K, but have done several Kato/Atlas/Stewart types. Since most HO diesel mechanisms use stub axles, I would think that in the worst case you would have to make longer stub axles with the S scale wheels. You would probably also have to spread the sideframes, but that shouldn't be a major problem. As someone else mentioned, you can purchase regauged Athearn mechanisms. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2004	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Rubber Stamps

I just happen to know of a company that makes rubber stamps and can tell you that the advent of the scanner and laser make it very easy to match any rubber stamp that was used to mark trains. Inks are easy to duplicate of course. Ken Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2005	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 3/14/1999
Subject: Sn42

Just starting out in the S world. I will try and model the Railway in Newfoundland, Canada. This railway was a narrow gauge railway. Any idea on where or what size of trucks to use. Obviously the trucks that come with the kits can not be used. I just picked up American Models kit #208 which is the exact model of one of the box cars used. Not many models that match the railway. Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy Canada -----Original Message----- From: s-trains-owner@onelist.com <s-trains-owner@onelist.com> To: baracing@... <baracing@...> Date: Monday, March 15, 1999 1:15 AM Subject: [s-trains] Welcome to s-trains@onelist.com >Hello, > >Welcome to the S-Trains list. Please take a moment to review this message. >This list is intended for folks who share an interest in S-Scale (1/64th) and >S-Gauge model railroading. > >To unsubscribe from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at >www.onelist.com, and select the User Center link from the menu bar >on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription >between digest and normal mode. If you are a non-web e-mail >user, (ie Juno) just send me a note and I will take care of you. > >Some Guidelines: >Always visit the FAQ page (http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm) >to see if your question may have been already answered. > >There are now over 350 members on this list. Please try to limit your >messages to a maximum of one per day. > >When responding to S-Trains, please do not use the 'Reply' button >because it often includes the entire original e-mail text. Instead >create a 'new' message and address it to s-trains@onelist.com. > >Write directly to the person when you want to have an in-depth >discussion. > >If you don't like the language or attitude of a list member, send them a >note (or me). It may just be a 'slip' or a misunderstanding. > >Maybe the 'S-Trains Message Board' is a better place for some of these >'detailed' and 'interactive' discussions. >http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb19857 > >'Buying and Selling' on the list is acceptable as long as the notes are >kept short and infrequent. I would prefer a link to a web page rather >than a price list in the e-mail. > >Thanks, >Paul Yorke (yorke@...) >http://www.gate.net/~yorke >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2006	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: Sn42

Andrew, You are in luck, check out RAILMASTER EXPORTS, NEW ZELAND. They make a Canadian Nat'l. Newfoundland GM-G8. It is available with out a power chassis and you can use an Athearn SD9 chassis or with a sagami pow'd custom chassis. Correct me if I am worng, but doesn't the Newfoundland railroad operate on a 3.5'(42") track gauge. If I am correct, you could use H0, 16.5mm gauge track and power chassis' to model the line. Check with Scenery Unlimited and/or some of the other S suppliers for availability. I do not have Railmaster address, if you could come up with it you can order direct. The railways in NZ operate on a 3.5'(42") track gauge, check it out and let us know what is happening. Welcome aboard, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2007	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Flyer transformers

Thanks to all who have contributed information regarding Flyer/Gilbert in Canada. It has now been established that Flyer transformers bearing the Canadian Standards Association seal were produced throughout the period 1947-66 -- almost the entire span of Gilbert Flyer years. Two, a # 1 1/2 and a #2, have been reported carrying the CSA seal ONLY (no UL). These must have been made in Canada but where is not yet known. Further contributions earnestly solicited. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2008	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: bulkhead flats

No luck first time around, so I'll try again. Can anyone give me the measurement between bulkheads for the Flyer ICG flat? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2009	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: Wood reefers

Question to you S-scalers (not highrailers). Sales of our Crown line of woodsided reefers have been disappointing in their sacle versions. Highrail versions have been VERY successful. Can any of you scalers give me an idea what it is you DON'T like about them, and why scale cars have not been well- received. At this point we have cut our scale production and packaging back to only 5% of total production for each roadname.......and even THAT leaves quite a few scale cars here "in stock". What about them? I won't be offended with your comments........I'm more interested in improving them to meet your desires........if possible and practical. ??????????????????? Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2010	From: michael prell	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers

What the heck else was day gonna do wit all dat cotton? ---Gale Hall <gale_hall@...> wrote: > > From: "Gale Hall" <gale_hall@...> > > > Tom, > > CSA, ya dad burn right, many had gray cords fur a reason!!!!!! > > > Gale > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? > http://www.onelist.com > Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2011	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: 751 and 751A

Is there much operational difference between the two? The 751has the log-lift solenoid above the base, the 751A below it. How crucial is it to have the original pulley-hook, and turn-buckle, or will similarly sized substitutes do? Are these two pieces available for purchase? How bout a roof? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2012	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: AF transformers

Any preferences, or operational/reliability/serviceability/safety differences, between the compact early B-series (4B, 8B, 12B), the dead-man handled series (15B, 16B, 19B, 30B, etc.), or the later series (22080, 22090, etc.) of AF transformers? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2013	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: 751 and 751A

David (the other david!<G>) The pulley and hook is the same one used on the crane car, repros are made. Almost any small pulley would work too! I don't think there is much difference operational-wise, I think the change was because of manufacturing savings. (but then I don't have both versions operating, maybe someone else has more input on this) Roofs used to be available, don't know if they still are (Doug?) It's a fun accessory! Bases can be a bit fragile. S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2014	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Reverse switches

For M.A. Lambert: Collectors, dyed in the wool, hardcore collectors, want unopened boxes of TRAINS. Unopened boxes of switches have no additional values over opened boxes of switches. To put it more directly, OPEN THE #*&%ING BOX ALREADY. Then, you'll know what is inside! Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2015	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: af transformers

Dead man handle transformers have a graphite roller which is more gentle on the secondary windings than 'scrapers', as long as the roller isn't allowed to wear out. Have run into 2 big 5 digit transformers whose secondary windings had been cut by the scraper. Tom J

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2016	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Scale

Michael Westphal wrote: >A local train shop had some 1/64 scale 18-wheeler trucks so I bought one to go with the AF >train I'm returning to service. >When I got home, I discovered that the new truck was the exact same size >as the truck that came with the kids Lionel starter train. Now, I've >always thought that the Lionel truck was a bit small, but this seems to >confirm it. Or does it? Does Lionel mix the scales of items in it's train >sets? Am I confused? Did I buy a mismarked truck? The tractor, bumper to mud flaps, is 5 >3/16" and the trailer is 8 5/16". It still seems a bit small next to the AF engine, but really >small next to the Lionel engine. Is this the right size for 'S'? Dear Michael: Lionel does (and Gilbert did) mix and match scales of vehicles. Big L released its Trailer Train intermodal car with Flyer "S" trucks (wheelsets) on the 027 chassis. The tractor trailers mounted on the cars are fully interchangeable with the 027 versions (they're the same ones.) I guess if you are running an intermodal yard, it would facilitate container load exchanges between Lionelville and Flyerville! Of course, coupling these cars to traditional Flyer "piggyback" cars will point out immediately that there is a discrepancy of scale, since these have 2 trailers on a single flatcar that is 2/3 the length of the intermodal car. If your train also includes the remote control auto loader, just take a look at how long that Manoil coupe is; close to 40 feet, I'd guess. Now that's a luxury car! If you purchased AHL or Racing Champions or some similar die-cast truck, and it is marked as 1/64th scale, use it for a reference. It is probably pretty close. Working from your measurements, the tractor scales to about 28 feet and the trailer is close to 44 feet. Not bad, unless it's supposed to represent a different, specific truck. Just multiply the actual size by 64 to get the prototype size in inches. Then divide by 12 to see it in feet. Remember, modern tractor-trailers are huge. Sleeper cab tractors can easily hit 30 feet. Fifty foot trailers are commonplace. 1940 and 50's trucks are smaller, but the telling features will always be tire size, doors and windows/windshields. In the end, if it looks right, it is right. After all, it's not THE world . . . it's YOUR world! Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2017	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Digest Number 169

mlambert@... says, >Subject: numeric codes for all flyer??? > Hi I have an unopened carton of 12 A,F. reverse switches with the > numbers1 9257 on the case or carton. There are also three letters on the > box, and they are DFB. The box measures 3 5/8 D x 4 3/4 H x 5 1/2 W. I > have had this item for about 2 years and haven't opened it. My questions > are what are they? When were they made. And what all did A.C Gilbert > make reverse switches for. The measurements of the box indicates that 12 > reverse switches for trains could fit. the numbers could shed some light > on the subject if a person new Gilberts numeric code. If anyone knows > anything about such matters please let me know. What's a reverse switch? Could it be that Gilbert did not assemble E units, but purchased them complete from an outside source and received them 12 in a small carton such as you have? Do you know a friendly xray technician who would take a look through the carton? charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2018	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Mark's mystery box of Reversing Swtchs

Hi all, Well, it's a mystery no more! After some searching, this is a box of Auto-Rama Superhighway car reversing switches. For those of you who can see attachments, I've posted one here (it's small, shouldn't mess up anyone's system) .jpg file. I'll also send it to Paul, so he can post it on the site, if anyone wants to see it. And, Chris Z, I do beg to differ on this one! I suspect the value in this box is as it is, for someone who wants to do a 'store display' of flyer stuff in the '60s. Yep, that's a really small niche--about as small a niche as Auto-rama collectors/operators! BTW, I seem to remember a railroad-highway crossing piece when I was a kid, but haven't seen any listed--if my memory is right, it was a pikemaster piece. Now that would have made an interesting All Aboard set, slot cars and trains in one! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2019	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: more power, "Ho, ho, ho."

- Greeting`S' - Jacques asked a fine question regarding accessory power. I always use separate transformers for accessories, usually separating the lighting circuit (at 9 or 10 V) from the operating accessories which can then be run at 15 V. C and H Sales Co. (http://www.candhsales.com/), 800/325-9465, usually has a goodly array of transformers in the catalog. One such in the catalog of last fall was 14 v @ 4 A. Other electrical and electronics houses have similar offerings. An AF transformer which cannot stand much more slider wear on the top of the secondary is a good candidate for fixed voltage service. I have removed the slider and may a hard connection to the end of the winding to get the full voltage, sometimes 15 V, sometimes 16 V. For modular layouts, separate transformers for accessories is almost a must. especially if there is a track connection for the accessory. Several such will almost guarantee a short across a single transformer since most terminals come from taps on its single secondary. Cranes and street lights are okay from the main transformer, but crossing gates, automatic stations, etc,. that connect to the track will pobably be less of a hassle if powered from one transformer for each such device. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2020	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Jeeps

I need help, can anyone give the correct measurements or type, for the Tootsietoy Jeeps on the 25572 US NAVY Jeep transport. Thanks AL ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2021	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: Sn42

In message <001c01be6eb0$21e1d3e0$336ca8d8@baracing>, Andrew Baird <baracing@...> writes >From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > >Just starting out in the S world. I will try and model the Railway in >Newfoundland, Canada. This railway was a narrow gauge railway. Any idea on >where or what size of trucks to use. Obviously the trucks that come with the >kits can not be used. >I just picked up American Models kit #208 which is the exact model of one of >the box cars used. Not many models that match the railway. >Any help or info would be greatly appreciated. >Thank You >Andrew Baird >Nfld Rlwy >Canada I suggest you subscribe to the S Canada Newsletter: Canadian S Scale Quarterly. There are a couple of people in the group that model the Newfie, see the advert in CRM. Of course you need a Railmaster G8, and I believe the PRS 40ft boxcar that was done in the Green Leaf and White Leaf liveries is correct with Sn3.5 trucks underneath. Contact the NZ crowd about suitable trucks - don't use HO trucks they look silly and are far too small. I suspect there are a number of HO steamers that can be used as a basis for Newfie steamers - have fun and report on your progress. Also cotact Morgan at CRM several articles in back issues about the Colonial Gauge. -- Kelvin White Oxford, The Old Country.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2022	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: 3'6"

Andrew and others You know in a strange way I envy you, that is modelling 3'6", as you have the world of HO to use as source for track and mechanisms. Sn42 is so close to HO as , even for a purist not to worry about it (actual difference is approx .1mm, and that would be within tolerance of that particular gage!) good luck!! I know that better informed Canadian Prototype modellers will verify or correct, a lot of equipment on the Canadian narrow guage lines (Rollingstock wise) was hand me downs on slim bogies!! cheers :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2023	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: New Pages

New pages Gilbert Transformers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/transformer/transformer.htm and just for fun The Pike Planner, start planning today... http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/track/pikeplan1.htm Enjoy -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2024	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 169

Message text written by INTERNET:Cbtrainnut@... >From: Cbtrainnut@... >open the box and look < It ain't my box. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2025	From: Lawrence Weeks	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Transformer handle

Hello, I have an oval shaped transformer (I do not have access to it at the moment) with a missing handle. The handle was long and narrow, red, and pressed onto a keyed post. The transformer has a "speed" gauge on it to which one end of the handle pointed. If this matches more than one transformer, I will get the model # from it the next time I can. My question is, does anybody have a recommendation as to where to find a replacement? Larry -- Lawrence Weeks "Audaces fortuna juvat." dev@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2026	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Re: Wood reefers

> Question to you S-scalers (not highrailers). Sales of our Crown line of > woodsided reefers have been disappointing in their sacle versions. Highrail > versions have been VERY successful. Can any of you scalers give me an idea > what it is you DON'T like about them, and why scale cars have not been well- > received. I'm probably the wrong person to try and answer this completely, since I'm a modern modeler and, from my frame of reference, these cars are ancient (if you had 57-foot mechanical reefers, then we could really talk!). :) However, I've overheard some discussion about what these cars are, and no one seems to know. What was the prototype & how common were they? Who had them & when? Exactly what paint schemes did these cars actually have? Today's hobby has gotten sophisticated enough that these are important questions for the scale market (twenty years ago, this might not have made much of a difference). If you take a look at Don Thompson's publicity, his ads & catalogs take great pains to answer these questions. Don also runs ads detailing why each of his products is perfect for American Flyer layouts. That's great. When he was promoting the AM GP-35, Don's ads went into detail about why this might have been the next engine that Gilbert would have made if they had stayed in business. He addresses the concerns of all segments of the S gauge spectrum. I don't think most modelers have any problem with a manufacturer doing whatever is necessary to help sell product and generate the capital to produce more. If people like it, make it! However, different buyers have different interests, and I think that a lack of knowledge about the reefer could be hurting sales among scale modelers. There is something that I've been trying to make clear to S scale manufacturers for years. S-Helper markets their products while most of the competition just advertises. There is a distinction. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2027	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: The Schwan's truck deal.

Hi All, Well, my Schwan's catalog arrived today. Here's the deal FIRST!! It is NOT a '46 Dodge panel, even though that's what it's described as. The photo shows a Lledo '39 Chevrolet Panel!!! And I know that that is an existing model in the Lledo line OK, the trucks are $4.99 each PLUS two Proofes of purchase from Schwan's Ice cream containers. Shipping included! Payment by Check or Money order. Shipping expected after May 1, 1999. Anyone got Ice Cream??? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2028	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: Railmaster Exports

Anyone have a G-8 for sale? By Railmaster Exports, NZ. Required for building Sn42 Newfoundland Railway. Thank You Andrew Baird

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2029	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/15/1999
Subject: scale reefers

> > > >Doug, > >The answer to your question about the scale car sales, is a complex >issue, nothing at all wrong with the car, they are great.....alot of the >scale modelers are modeling modern equipment. Even with my era from >1960 to 1980 it barely nicks the wood reefer era. Alot of the scale >modelers that have modeled steam for years are sadly dying off. > >Steam still abounds in Flyer, and alot of those folks buy it cause it is >cute, colorful or it may come as a gift. > >I have seen your PFE car, it is fantastic, extremely well done. > >For some unknown reason scale has longed for the 40 steel reefer and >look for a second at that area of sales. Pacific Rail Shops sold out of >the NP reefer, the MESA group sold out of 200 CB&Q reefers and was >supposed to have additional cars in late Feb to fill the remaining >November orders, their PFE were out ahead of yours, that had to hurt, >sold out and another run to follow, the Rock Island reefers are all but >gone and also the Swift cars. > > >American Models has the 40' insulated box aimed at the reefer market >and then a convention car is a PRS SOO LINE potato reefer.....And Ron >says if it isn't marked scale, they ship hirail cause 80% of their sales >are hirail now. > >The real problem lies in the fact that there is to much to fast to >absorb in scale right now. An acid test right now for scale would be a >yellow CB&Q wood reefer...it would cover over into the diesel era and >the steel era and it would follow on the heels of the limited run PRS >cars, but I think it would sell. > >Another thing too, maybe just maybe scalers are buying hirail versions >and quietly changing trucks cause the stocking store doesn't have a >scale version, so right there the hirailers get another one and the >scalers don't. > >There are also alot of modelers today that were born after the fall of >the Cuban Government....and rail travel to Cuba would seem a joke to >them. > >I guess pick one from column A and one from column B....but then I'd ask >for a 57' mechanical.......the midwest beef packers are pretty much >untouched or the older beer companies, make limited runs, when they are >gone they are gone. Start a series of 6 or 7 or 9 and offer a coupon in >each and 9 coupons cash in for a 10th special car that isn't for sale. > >Bob Blois said years ago it was very difficult to get a kit out because >in the planning stages everyone wanted two or three and by the time it >was ready three of four had quit the hobby or were in HO and the big car >fleet sales now consisted of two cars instead of 20. > >Have a car that is scale ready, we'll get wheels under it...that would >let you go almost 100% hirail.....Flyer never made a scale car in his >history and we still have us scalers........ > >Hang in there Doug, best wishes, and best of luck in our crazy gauge, I >just love this hobby. > >Gale Hall >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2030	From: PatnDave	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: scale reefers

Gale Hall speaks the truth here... >scale modelers are modeling modern equipment and here, Another thing too, maybe just maybe scalers are buying hirail versions >and quietly changing trucks cause the stocking store doesn't have a >scale version, so right there the hirailers get another one and the >scalers don't. (FOR SURE) and here but then I'd ask for a 57' mechanical.......

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2031	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Re: scale reefers

Not All Scale Modelers are Strictly Modern!! If you were in KC, you'd relish a visit to Jim Graham's layout near Blue Springs/Lee's Summit area. Also, look at the USRA cars, before and after rebuild versions, that S-Helper is offering, especially the outlaw trucks they are using (When was the last time you saw Andrews trucks in revenue service?) In my case, I'm stoppinmg some coverage at pre-bankrupt blue, 1975, and reaching back to 1950s for other prototype projects. DJE PatnDave wrote: > From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...> > > Gale Hall speaks the truth here... > >scale modelers are modeling modern equipment > > and here, > Another thing too, maybe just maybe scalers are buying hirail versions > >and quietly changing trucks cause the stocking store doesn't have a > >scale version, so right there the hirailers get another one and the > >scalers don't. (FOR SURE) > > and here > but then I'd ask for a 57' mechanical....... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ta Da! Come see our new web site! > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: A free email community service > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2032	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: our day

Good Morning, To all a most Happy 3/16th!!!!!!!!! Gale Hall Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2033	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: reefer sales

I don't know what the financial impact is but SHS sells their kits RTR hirail with scale wheels and KD coupler ready. That's probably the easiest route. Like the earlier responders, I'm into modern equipment. I might buy one undec reefer to make over into a MOW car but that isn't going to help Doug much. Now as Stan said, if we were talking 57 foot mechanical reefers, that would be different. What I don't know is how well modern reefers would see in hirail. It will be interesting to see how AM does with its SD60 among the hirailers. But Doug has raised a good point. I have to edit one of the upcoming editions of the S Canada quarterly and maybe that would be a good topic for an editorial. Alex Binkley Hammond, Ontario alex.binkley@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2034	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Re: Wood reefers

Doug, My 2c on the subject... I've not examined your car up close and personal so that is one reason for not getting one yet. (I'm trying to make the show on the 28th and perhaps i can see one then.) Also, I am not very interested in the roadnames that you have picked, except for perhaps the A&P. What I would be more likely to buy is an undec version. I tend to roll my own cars. When i was in HO i bought almost all undecorated kits. I would add details and then do my own painting/lettering. With the limited selection of S scale decals i'm finding that a bit harder to do. On the other hand the quality and detail of S scale products is far better then in HO so there is less need to do-it-yourself. Finally, no, not all scale modelers are modern modelers. I'm modeling around 1949 so i would expect to see a wood reefer around, perhaps in pretty rough shape! I agree with the comment that it would be good to have information on the prototype(s) used as the basis for the model. That would let me determine how much I would have to fudge for it to fit on my layout :) kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2035	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Re: reefer sales

In a message dated 3/16/99 8:19:13 AM, you wrote: << I don't know what the financial impact is but SHS sells their kits RTR hirail with scale wheels and KD coupler ready. That's probably the easiest route.>> I realize that, but I'm not sure what the point is . The Crown reefers are RTR, with scale wheels already present in mounted trucks, and are also "KD- coupler ready". We did thatm rather than supply BOTH wheelsets simply to keep retail cost down. Supplying both may be easier from a labor/assembly view, but seemed wasteful and certainly costs more. BTW, I want to thank everyone who has responded on this topic. I really DO appreciate all your comments, even the negative ones!!!!! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2036	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Re: 751

<<How crucial is it to have the original pulley-hook, and turn-buckle, or will similarly sized substitutes do? Are these two pieces available for purchase? How bout a roof?>> Hook is same as on 644/944 crane. Good repros available. Nice quality roof is also available. I don't recall any significant operational difference except MAYBE slightly less noise from the lower mounting. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2037	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 170

<<I have an oval shaped transformer (I do not have access to it at the moment) with a missing handle. The handle was long and narrow, red, and pressed onto a keyed post. The transformer has a "speed" gauge on it to which one end of the handle pointed. If this matches more than one transformer, I will get the model # from it the next time I can. My question is, does anybody have a recommendation as to where to find a replacement?>> This particular handle is not repro'd, so all you can do is keep your eyes open for an original in somebody's junkbox.....they're not that unusual to find. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2038	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: The Schwan's truck deal, part 2

Hi all, Well, I received a note from Schwans today. It seems they want to sell their "image" who cares about the details! I print their response in entirety: "Thank You for your comments. The original delivery truck that Marvin Schwan started his business with was a 1946 Dodge Panel Truck which has been restored and is on display at the Corporate Office headquarters in Marshall, MN. We have been advised by the manufacturer of the toy replica that the toy that we were sent was the closest to the original that could be produced. " Hmm, so now we tell people that a '39 Chevy is a '46 Dodge, who's to know the diff?? I know I'm not a rivet counter, but this is just too much! I'm gonna get one or two anyway, it's a good looker! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2039	From: AC4400W@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Re: Scale reefers

Hi All; Regarding scale modelers, we DO NOT ALL model the moder era! I model the time frame 1950-1960. More specifically than that, I model the D&RGW in both S standard gauge and S narrow gauge, inlcuding handlaid dual guage switches with three frogs in each switch no less. Eventually I will extend my timeline forward as I want to model the period of time that I enjoyed in Colorado the most, and that was the 1970's and early 80's, but for now I'll settle for the 1950's. Besides myself there are a few others out there that I know of that do not model the modern era in Scale. The Buckingham S Scalers/Mountain Empire S Scale Association is building a huge 14 x 67 foot scale layout that depicts Colorado's Joint Line in the 50's and 60's. As for the Crown reefers, they are nice models, don't get me wrong, but when you compare them to an SHS or PRS offering, you can see the difference, and I think that is probably the biggest reason the scale ones aren't selling. One last thing: the TCA has apologized for doing what they did regarding the 1999 car, and Jerry and I should be receiving a check for our expenses shortly. The fellow I talked to was the past president of the TCA and he was very gracious. Thought you'd all like to know. All for now, keep the S trains rolling! Wayne Hills

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2040	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 3/16/1999
Subject: Voltage Dropping Diodes

The question was asked: "Is there a way to reduce the 18 volts from the 30B to 16 volts for the accessories post without affecting the trains. I know little about electronics but have been learning as I go." Yes, wire the accessory in series with the ac terminals of a 50V 10A (or larger) rectifier. Wire the dc terminals together, they are not otherwise used. This drops approximately 1.4 volts. Or use individual diodes, six of them, for a 2.1 volt drop. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2041	From: Gerbasi	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: sales of refers

Doug, The reason you probably sell more to Hi railers than scalers is simply that Hi Railers I know generally own more rolling stock than scalers. For example, I own 328 items of rolling stock, of which 90 are scale kits converted to hi rail, 15 are scratch built (I built refers almost exactly like your refers 15 years ago with Perma Built roofs, ladders and ends and Gene Walp sides with Grandt Line details) and 38 are rtr scale/Hi Rail items such as you or S Helper make. I have more stuff of my pike that would be considered scale if I just changed the wheel sets and added kadees than most scalers have on their pikes. Most scale pikes I know of have 3 or 4 engines and maybe 20 to 50 items of rolling stock, tops. At any rate, my point is that most scale pikes as they are currently built will not support a lot of rolling stock, and their owners carefully pick their stock as to how will it fit in. I am not as picky but I won't run anything that wasn't on the rails between 1935-1960, and I operate my pike so most of the shipping is "off line" and originates in a "fiddle yard" so I need a large number of cars (or at least that is how I explain to my wife why I NEED that new refer). I will buy at least 6 and up to 15 new items of rolling stock each year, almost all of them "transition era" scale/Hi Rail items. Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2042	From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: Gilbert in Canada

Here is an updated summary of Gilbert's Canadian connections. 1946 -- Transformers 5A and 6A catalogued. Made for 25-cycle current, which was produced only by Ontario Hydro. 1947-55 -- Transformers 1 1/2 and 2 catalogued. Some were stamped CSA only, suggesting they were made in Canada. 1958-59 -- CN reefer and CP flat catalogued. 1964-66 -- A.C. Gilbert of Canada :Ltd. occupied space in premises of Munroe Games Ltd., Burlington, Ont. Some All Aboard sets distributed from there. Question arising: Was Gilbert operating in Canada when he produced the cars with Canadian road names? Undoumented report to be checked: Gilbert bought a Canadian toy company. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2043	From: L Montgomery	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: (No Subject)

Hi Folks, I'd like to get some more steam-era "S"tuff if its inexpensive and not too delicate -- something a reasonably responsible 7 year old can be trusted with. The Schwan's truck sounds good but does anyone know of a store in the Baltimore/Washington area that sells this brand of ice cream? P.S. Paul Yorke posted some pictures I took of my ceramic village/American Flyer layout just to show the comparative scale of the trains vis-a-vis the ceramic buildings. They're at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/layout/monty/monty.htm This is not a "model railroad" but what traditionally was called a "Christmas garden" in these parts. They were built primarily for the enjoyment of children (at least that was what the grown-ups claimed). (Thanks Paul) Monty --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2044	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: Doug's Reefers

I thought, for perspective, you might like to know why I, a hi-railer, HAVE bought almost all the Crown reefers. They're colorful, they look cool, and I don't have a problem with timelines, since I don't model, I play. I'm not running a museum that represents a scale model of some time and place in the history of the United States of America. I'm the lord and master of a layout representing the United States of Chris Zizzo. That's why Amtrak Superliners platform adjacent to Santa Fe Super Chiefs and New Haven electric commuter trains. Basically, I think that, in the reefers, you have made a product that appeals to the American Flyer, Hi-Rail set, and you should consider your sales to scalers as additional gravy. Thanks for listening! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2045	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: St. Gilbert's Day

He drove all the third rails out of New Haven, (even the NYNH&H RR went to catenary!) and now it's time for the wearin' o' the Yellow and Blue (or Red and White) as we celebrate St. Gilbert's Day. A few years ago, my doctor noticed I had slightly elevated liver enzymes. He traced it to a benign condition known as "Gilbert's Syndrome." (Serious, no lie. Look it up, though it uses a French pronunciation "Jill-bears"). I guess all those smoke fluid gel capsules I bit open had their effect. Well, it's better than what beer will do to your liver! So, Happy belated Saint Gilbert's Day, 3/16/99. Now for the first present to myself in the celebration of the 64 days of St. Gilbert . . . BULLETIN This just in, fighting broke out today in the vicinity of the Whitney museum, as insurrection forces of the "Full Hand" (also known as the "Five Digits") clashed with LTI peacekeepers. Amid chants of "We Want Don, We Want Don", the rebels vowed that the "unholy alliance" would soon come to an end. Members of the older "Three Digit" group were on hand, and though not as vocal, were seen to display their traditional "Third Digit" salute. All this on the heels of an otherwise festive and uneventful St. Gilbert's Day parade in downtown, New Haven. Reporting to you live, this is Chris Zizzo, S-Trains Remote Control Action News.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2046	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: S scale

Anyone have in S scale for Sn42 layout for sale: 1. West Short Line 40 Ton Covered Hopper- undec prefered;and 2. East Broad Top 30 Ton Steel Flat car-undec. 3. American Models 40 Ton Pluug Door Heated Box Car-CN. With or without trucks. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy Canada

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2047	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: Reefers

Hi Guys, I have not seen anybody give my answer to the wood reefer question, so here 'tis. One of the major reasons I got into this hobby and this scale was to do kit building and scratch building. I have a BUNCH of wood reefer kits in my stockpile, and I can scratch build more using dry transfers from Clover House. Soooooooooo, even though I love wood reefers, I have not bought any RTR. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Who was the only Irishman in the Bible? ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2048	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: Vehicle Size

>>Just multiply the actual size by 64 to get the prototype size in inches. Then divide by 12 to see it in feet. Remember, modern tractor-trailers are huge. Sleeper cab tractors can easily hit 30 feet. Fifty foot trailers are commonplace. 1940 and 50's trucks are smaller, but the telling features will always be tire size, doors and windows/windshields. In the end, if it looks right, it is right.<< For trucks, I check the width; If it scales out to 8 feet wide, if is "right". For cars and pickups, if it scales out close to 6 feet wide, it is "right". Of course, compacts will be about 6 inches narrower. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division What is the only Irish constellation? ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2049	From: Dave Heine	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: Re: S scale

For the EBT flat car have you tried Bill Wade? He made kits for the steel flats. Actually, I think they were rated at 35 tons. Did the Newfoundland have some that were similar? I don't know about the rest. Dave Heine -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Baird <baracing@...> To: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 5:44 PM Subject: [S-Trains] S scale >From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > >Anyone have in S scale for Sn42 layout for sale: >1. West Short Line 40 Ton Covered Hopper- undec prefered;and >2. East Broad Top 30 Ton Steel Flat car-undec. >3. American Models 40 Ton Pluug Door Heated Box Car-CN. >With or without trucks. >Thank You >Andrew Baird >Nfld Rlwy >Canada > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms? >http://www.onelist.com >Sign up for a new email list today >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2050	From: esquivel	Date: 3/17/1999
Subject: saluda grade

hello out there. Any one been to saluda to see the steepest train grade in north america? WOW! I can not believe what I saw today. It was like being in the twilight zone. the grade is 3.7%- 5.9% with curves that would make us all cringe. the speed limet is 8 miles an hour, but the engineers would go no faster than 4 miles an hour. I got some great pictures that i will scan next week. They have to stop the train at the crest and lock the brakes for the first 25 cars, and check the brakes on the rest of the train. Then it slowly pulls out, I followed the train down the mountain and it made a very eary sound, it's brakes screaming for help!!! By the time we reached the bottom the brakes were smoking like hell. And the smell was unlike anything I have ever smelled before. It came to another stop and they had to reset all the brakes again. And before I knew it the train was on it's way. When they go up the hill.... well that is another story. we will tackle that another day. Wow!!! I wish you were all there with me. ---------- > From: Dave Heine <dheine@...> > To: Andrew Baird <baracing@...>; s-trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: S scale > Date: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 9:59 PM > > From: "Dave Heine" <dheine@...> > > For the EBT flat car have you tried Bill Wade? He made kits for the steel > flats. Actually, I think they were rated at 35 tons. Did the Newfoundland > have some that were similar? > > I don't know about the rest. > > Dave Heine > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Baird <baracing@...> > To: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> > Date: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 5:44 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] S scale > > > >From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > > > >Anyone have in S scale for Sn42 layout for sale: > >1. West Short Line 40 Ton Covered Hopper- undec prefered;and > >2. East Broad Top 30 Ton Steel Flat car-undec. > >3. American Models 40 Ton Pluug Door Heated Box Car-CN. > >With or without trucks. > >Thank You > >Andrew Baird > >Nfld Rlwy > >Canada > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms? > >http://www.onelist.com > >Sign up for a new email list today > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Have you visited our new web site? > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2051	From: AFSTrains@aol.com	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] Digest Number 172

In a message dated 3/18/99 3:38:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, S- Trains@onelist.com writes: << Undoumented report to be checked: Gilbert bought a Canadian toy company. >> Joe, You may want to get in touch with Bob Tufts (Chantilly, VA). He has been researching Gilbert and has access to a number of original documents. He is very thorough and if he knows the answer will give you very accurate information. He is a TCA member and you can find him in the directory. Very interesting information. Keep up the good work. Robin V.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2052	From: Mike Vandvier	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Saluda Grade

The article regarding the Saluda Grade was very interesting. I have been on the highway many times but never seen the train. How can I find out when it runs? Related story. I am a United Methodist minister and have a older friend who is a United Methodist minister and he has a brother who is a United Methodist minister. They grew up in Spartanburg, South Carolina, not too far from the Saluda Grade. As very young men, on Sunday afternoon when there just was not much to do, they would borrow their father's old car and go up to the Saluda grade....the highway. They would drive all the way to the top. One of them would get out. The other would take the car back to the bottom and then proceed back to the top as SLOW as he could drive. The grade was so steep and winding that no car dared to pass another for fear of what might be coming down the mountain. When he arrived at the top, the one who had been left there would count the number of cars he driver had been able to "back up" behind him as he drove slowly to the top. They would then exchange places. Can you imagine the frustration those two caused on a Sunday afternoon on the Saluda grade. Now you know why some of us have to go into the ministry.....our sins are so many and great!!!! Have a good day!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2053	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Saluda Pass

Esquival wrote: <Message: 10 Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 23:20:03 -0500 < From: "esquivel" <esquivel@...>Subject: <saluda grade <steepest train gradein <north america? WOW! I can not believe what I saw <today. It was likebeing <in the twilight zone. the grade is 3.7%- 5.9% with <curves that wouldmake <us all cringe. the speed limet is 8 miles an hour, <but the engineerswould <go no faster than 4 miles an hour. I got some great <pictures that iwill <scan next week. They have to stop the train at the <crest and lock the <brakes for the first 25 cars, and check the brakes on <the rest of the <train. Then it slowly pulls out, I followed the train <down the mountainand <it made a very eary sound, it's brakes screaming for <help!!! By thetime we <reached the bottom the brakes were smoking like hell. <And the smell was <unlike anything I have ever smelled before. It came <to another stop and <they had to reset all the brakes again. And before I <knew it the trainwas <on it's way. When they go up the hill.... well that <is another story.we <will tackle that another day. Wow!!! I wish you were <all there withme. I had the good fortune about five years ago of taking an excursion train from Charlotte, NC to Ashville, NC and back. The train was the last excursion pulled by the N&W 611 J locomotive, and consisted of historical society cars from all over (e.g., the diner car was from the Florida Railroad Historical Society). The train took the northern route through Salisbury to Asheville, stopping in Asheville and allowing passengers time to peruse Biltmore Village. I got to eat in the restored train station restaurant there. However, the highlight of the trip was the return trip taking the southern route through Saluda Pass. This is the steepest grade east of the Rockies, and is really a sight to behold. Using a helper loco, they took us up to the top of the grade, and then let us all out to do a run-by. Then, they backed the J down the hill, uncoupled all but about 4 cars, and let the J make a run by. What an experience. The sights, the sounds, the steam, the power!! By the time we were again underway it was almost dark, and we did not get back into Charlotte until well after midnight, and it was 3 a.m. before my wife and I got home. However, it was a day to remember. Joe Haenn === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2054	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: s steamer for 7 year old

My kids (3 and 5) and I play with any and all my stuff (AF, AM, whatever) together. I've found that a lot depends on what level of respect you instill in them toward the trains and layout from the beginning. We still have fun (including the occassional missed switch, or uncoupled car train-got-loose crash), but they don't treat anything maliciously even when playing in the basement without an adult around. For play by themselves, I'd recommend any of the diecast, simple side-rod/linkage steamers such as 302AC, and 293. The die cast models generally hold up to incidents (no plastic front steps to break off) and maintenance (metal instead of plastic chassis mount holes) better than their plastic shell cousins. Besides, they have some of that heft that makes them feel more like toy trains should. This past Christmas I bought (well actually Santa brought) our kids each a 302AC with some box, gondola, reefer, and caboose cars for less than $175. With some disassembly, cleaning, tuning, and lubrication it all makes for two really fun running trains. The trains that when they ask to run them by themselves, they'll get to.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2055	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Scale Drivers for Steamers

Hi Ya'll, My friend-in-S Milo Rodriguez remembers a company called Nimco that produced replacement drivers for flyer steamers with scale flanges. Does anyone know if they are still around or if there is any other alternative? Great Zot itS, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2056	From: Dave Heine	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: saluda grade

Sounds like you were really exposed to big time mountain railroading. While Saluda may hold the current title of the steepest mainline railroad grade, there have been/are steeper grades. Logging railroads were known for their steep (and substandard) track. That's why they used geared steam locomotives. One example you can still ride on is at the Cass Scenic Railroad in West Virginia. There is a section of track which approaches 11%. Of course that is an ex-logging railroad and not a mainline railroad. The grades are the reason they operate with one brakeman per car of passengers. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2057	From: D Simon	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Help Need tender

I am hoping someone can help me. I just got an old Hiawatha engine (o scale I think)and it is missing its tender. If anyone has or knows where I might find one please let me know. Thanks alot Dave Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2058	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: steep grade

The steepest grade is at the cog RR in NH. As I recall it is a 30 percent grade. See WWW.thecog.com Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2059	From: Boss31@aol.com	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 172 Ted Larson Quiz

Ted, the only Irish constellation that I know of is O'Rion of course. Steve Blackburn RMHR Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2060	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's

In a message dated 3/18/99 3:38:45 AM, you wrote: <<The Schwan's truck sounds good but does anyone know of a store in the Baltimore/Washington area that sells this brand of ice cream? >> Can't cite a store.....but I was in DC last week with 165 of our 8th graders, and I SAW a Schwan's truck going down the highway!!! Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2061	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Schwan's truck, Part 3!!!

Thanks so much for your e-mail! Hi all, Since I've been posting you and sharing my communications with Schwan over their model truck, thought I should share the latest with you. Very interesting! I seems that Lledo is doing a new truck! BTW, for those wanting to know what store to find this product, it is only sold 'to your door'. I believe their trucks are all over the country, but probably more common in rural areas. The local driver (I caught him at 7-11 getting a snack) told me you get a free 1/2 gallon of ice cream with your first order, so that helps!! Following is the text of the mail I got today; "You are the second person that has contacted us in regards to the toy truck pictured in our MealTime Catalog! You are correct the toy truck in the picture is a Chevy. We are actually manufacturing a 1946 Dodge Panel Van. However, we did not have the Dodge ready for the pictures ... so to meet our deadlines for the MealTime Catalog, we had to picture a Chevy. I guarantee you that if you order the toy truck it will look like a 1946 Dodge Panel Van (Dodge has given us their "seal of approval"!). Have a great day! Lou Perli Schwan's Home Service Marketing" So there's the final word--I hope! BTW, I missed national S gauge day by 2 days, my B-day is the 18th. Hmm maybe that's why some of my stuff is out of scale??? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2062	From: The Velapoldi's	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: European Voltage, Lists

A question and some information: 1) I will be moving to Norway in the near future and wonder about theuse of AF transformers in Norway. I know that I can get a transformer from 220 to 110 V, but it seems odd to have transformer - transformer to get to 7-18 V AC that one needs. However, I understand that the ground is at 0 volts, the + is at +110 V, and the negative is at -110 V. Thus, if I can figure out which are the ground and + voltage supply, I would have a difference of 110 volts. Is this true (for AC operation). Anyone in Europe thought of or tried this possible solution? 2) I am thinning a few things in my accumulation - some LTI AF sets and some early 60's scale kits, built and unbuilt such as Kinsman, Northeastern, NIMCO, Permabilt, Regal and a Rex 2-4-4t. Anyone interested in these short lists, please drop me an e-mail and I will e-mail back the lists with asking prices. Tx. Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2063	From: Jarcho	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Cambell's trucks

I received two vehicles from Campbell's (soup) today, a Volkswagen bus and a delivery van by Lledo, both very nice size-wise. Will probably repaint or remove lettering from the Volks. Happy 'S'pring, Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2064	From: Craig Stair	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's

Here in the Dallas area, Schwan only sells door to door via their trucks. So, you need to write down the number on the truck and call them. Craig Stair > -----Original Message----- > From: PortLines@... [mailto:PortLines@...] > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 1999 4:23 PM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Schwan's > > > From: PortLines@... > > > In a message dated 3/18/99 3:38:45 AM, you wrote: > > <<The Schwan's truck sounds good but does anyone know of a store in the > Baltimore/Washington area that sells this brand of ice cream? > > >> > > Can't cite a store.....but I was in DC last week with 165 of our > 8th graders, > and I SAW a Schwan's truck going down the highway!!! > Doug > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Have you visited our new web site? > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2065	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: OT - sorta - Orgin of Standard Gauge?

All, This is one of those email items that gets sent around everytime someone new gets an email address. I've seen it many times before, and received it again today. In the past, it meant little to me and I just snickered and deleted it. But being a member of this list it has struck a chord. Is there any truth to this? Any at all? Michael -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads were built by English expatriates. Why did the English people build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used. Why did "they" use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they used for building wagons, which used the same wheel spacing. Okay! Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing the wagons would break on some of the old, long-distance roads, because that's the spacing of the old wheel ruts. So who built these old rutted roads? The first long-distance roads in Europe were built by Imperial Rome for the benefit of their legions. The roads have been used ever since. And the ruts? The initial ruts, which everyone had to match for fear of destroying their wagons, were made by Roman war chariots. Since all the chariots were made for or by Imperial Rome they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Thus, we have the answer to the original questions. The United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original specification for an Imperial Roman army war chariot. Specs and Bureaucracies live forever. So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's ass came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because the Imperial Roman chariots were made to be just wide enough to accommodate the back-ends of two war horses. -----------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2066	From: Jarcho	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: origins standard gauge

The Roman wheel gauge is widely believed to be the origin of standard gauge. May well be true. You have to remember that until the coming of the railroad, armies from Roman times through Andrew Jackson travelled in the same ways, on foot or carried by beasts of burden. That's only about 150 years ago. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2067	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Fwd: SCHWANS

In a message dated 3/18/99 7:47:16 PM, rpc@... wrote: <<HI DOUG, SCHWANS IS A DOOR TO DOOR BUSINESS THEY SELL FROZEN STUFF LIKE STEAKS ,SEAFOOD,PIZZA ,ICE CREAM ETC.IN LARGE FREEZER TYPE QUANITIES. WE HAVE THEM IN OUR AREA (HAGERSTOWN,MD. ABOUT AN HOUR WEST OF BALTIMORE). REGARDS, BILL RODGERS rpc@nfis YOU CAN PASS THIS INFO TO THE POSTING >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2068	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: OT - sorta - Orgin of Standard Gauge?

There is one missing item: Because Chicago & North Western Railroad was built by British interests, many of its double-track main lines, especially the one from Chicago to Fremont (near Omaha) were built, signalled, and operated "left-handed", and UP is still having to do this and I have not heard of any plans for converting that route to right-hand signalling and running. Michael Westphal wrote: > From: Michael Westphal <westphal@...> > > All, > > This is one of those email items that gets sent around everytime someone > new gets an email address. I've seen it many times before, and received > it again today. In the past, it meant little to me and I just snickered > and deleted it. But being a member of this list it has struck a chord. > > Is there any truth to this? Any at all? > > Michael > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > > > The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, > 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. > > Why was that gauge used? > > Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads > were built by English expatriates. > > Why did the English people build them like that? > > Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the > pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used. > > Why did "they" use that gauge then? > > Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools > that they used for building wagons, which used the same wheel spacing. > > Okay! Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing? > > Well, if they tried to use any other spacing the wagons would break on > some of the old, long-distance roads, because that's the spacing of the > old wheel ruts. > > So who built these old rutted roads? > > The first long-distance roads in Europe were built by Imperial Rome for > the benefit of their legions. The roads have been used ever since. > > And the ruts? > > The initial ruts, which everyone had to match for fear of destroying > their wagons, were made by Roman war chariots. Since all the chariots > were made for or by Imperial Rome they were all alike in the matter of > wheel spacing. > > Thus, we have the answer to the original questions. The United States > standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original > specification for an Imperial Roman army war chariot. Specs and > Bureaucracies live forever. > > So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's > ass came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because the Imperial > Roman chariots were made to be just wide enough to accommodate the > back-ends of two war horses. > > ----------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > If you like orange and blue, then you will love our new web site! > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: Fostering connections and information exchange > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2069	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: European Voltage, Lists

Do you also have to deal with 50 cycle (probably called 50hertz) current instead of 60? how much of a problem is that. The Velapoldi's wrote: > From: "The Velapoldi's" <velapold@...> > > A question and some information: > 1) I will be moving to Norway in the near future and wonder about theuse > of AF transformers in Norway. I know that I can get a transformer from > 220 to 110 V, but it seems odd to have transformer - transformer to get > to 7-18 V AC that one needs. However, I understand that the ground is > at 0 volts, the + is at +110 V, and the negative is at -110 V. Thus, if > I can figure out which are the ground and + voltage supply, I would have > a difference of 110 volts. Is this true (for AC operation). Anyone in > Europe thought of or tried this possible solution? > > 2) I am thinning a few things in my accumulation - some LTI AF sets and > some early 60's scale kits, built and unbuilt such as Kinsman, > Northeastern, NIMCO, Permabilt, Regal and a Rex 2-4-4t. > > Anyone interested in these short lists, please drop me an e-mail and I > will e-mail > back the lists with asking prices. Tx. > Rance > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ideas on how we can improve ONElist? > http://www.onelist.com > Check out the Suggestion Box feature on our new web site > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2070	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/18/1999
Subject: Re: Scale Drivers for Steamers

Bill; Nixon Model Co., or Nimco, did produce drivers, and other parts out of zamak in the l940s and 1950s. I think I have a few deep in a box of parts/junk somewhere, I think I have an incomplete assembly/mechanism for an Atlantic, if I ever dig deep enough again. I do have a 1954 Nomco catalog, if I remember right, in the file, could look at it later if you wish. Bill Porter wrote: > Hi Ya'll, My friend-in-S Milo Rodriguez remembers a company called > Nimco that produced replacement drivers for flyer steamers with scale > flanges. Does anyone know if they are still around or if there is any > other alternative? Great Zot itS,Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2071	From: Lance McKnight	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Roman Carts and European Voltage

I have seen this reference also. Just the other day the Discovery Channel had a series called "Rome, Power and Glory". They confirmed the origin of both the European and the American standard gauge as from Roman cart wheels. In fact there are Roman roads still in use that have ruts worn in them from Roman carts. To address the question about the voltage in Norway, I don't think the ground is designed as a neutral so while it would work, it would be safer to use a tranformer to plug your AF transformer into. When I was stationed in Germany I used a transformer for my American TV, no local stations because they use different frequencies but the VCR worked. Kevin White might know more since he lives on the other side of the pond. Lance >Message: 15 > Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 19:01:40 -0600 > From: Michael Westphal <westphal@...> >Subject: OT - sorta - Orgin of Standard Gauge? > >All, > >This is one of those email items that gets sent around everytime someone >new gets an email address. I've seen it many times before, and received >it again today. In the past, it meant little to me and I just snickered >and deleted it. But being a member of this list it has struck a chord. > >Is there any truth to this? Any at all? > >Michael > >-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > > >The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, >8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number. > >Why was that gauge used? > >Because that's the way they built them in England, and the US railroads >were built by English expatriates. > >Why did the English people build them like that? > >Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the >pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used. > >Why did "they" use that gauge then? > >Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools >that they used for building wagons, which used the same wheel spacing. > >Okay! Why did the wagons use that odd wheel spacing? > >Well, if they tried to use any other spacing the wagons would break on >some of the old, long-distance roads, because that's the spacing of the >old wheel ruts. > >So who built these old rutted roads? > >The first long-distance roads in Europe were built by Imperial Rome for >the benefit of their legions. The roads have been used ever since. > >And the ruts? > >The initial ruts, which everyone had to match for fear of destroying >their wagons, were made by Roman war chariots. Since all the chariots >were made for or by Imperial Rome they were all alike in the matter of >wheel spacing. > >Thus, we have the answer to the original questions. The United States >standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches derives from the original >specification for an Imperial Roman army war chariot. Specs and >Bureaucracies live forever. > >So, the next time you are handed a specification and wonder what horse's >ass came up with it, you may be exactly right. Because the Imperial >Roman chariots were made to be just wide enough to accommodate the >back-ends of two war horses. > >----------------- >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2072	From: JHAUGH12	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Z4000

Gentlepersons: I have a chance to buy a MTH Z4000 transformer for my AF/S layout. I have currently two AF15s but I intend to run four to five major main loops on my layout plus three secondary and two switch yards. I would like to hear if anyone has experience using the Z for S to tell me what should I look out for (e.g. too much power, etc.)and if it is worthwhile if I get a very good deal. Another item to throw some fuel on the fire. My local hobby shop got the letter from Lionel on their AF offerring this year (e.g. later, later). Anyone heard anything new on potential releases. (e.g. I sure would like a B for my two SF PAs. Regads Joe Haughney

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2073	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: saluda grade

- Greeting`S' - Pleased to hear that many know of the Saluda grade which runs downhill from Saluda, NC, to Melrose where the runaway track is located. Travelling down US 176 from Saluda you will not even get out of town before turning right on Pearson's Falls Road, a gravel road for most of its length. At one point the road passes thru a one-lane tunnel under the railroad and over a stream (in the same tunnel. At the bottom the road bears left, under a railroad trestle, and meets 176 at the highway sign for Melrose. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2074	From: William H Trefts	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: A # for Schwan's

Greetings, All. Our Eastern Missouri Division Office number fro Schwan's Sales is (800) 526-4538. I doubt if they will deliver to DC, but they can probably refer you to your local distributor. Enjoy their products! We do!!! Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2075	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Schwan's

Folks: What we are saying is that somewhere out there exists a 1938 Chevy delivery truck by Lledo painted for Schwan's. As this model won't be put into production, only ONE is known to exist! Wonder what the value of that would be, or is it an artist's rendition like Lionel's SD-40? Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2076	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's

I've seen Schwan's trucks delivering ice cream door-to-door from time-to-time here in the North Country too. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-. -------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2077	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Re: Z4000

I just received a GP-9 S-gauge switcher (Lionel AF48020) from Charle's Ro Supply in Masachusetts. Price brand new was $139.95. That seemed like a pretty good deal to me, and indicates dealers are free to sell 'em at whatever point they wish. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-. -------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2078	From: Allen Evans	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: SCHWANS

I remember having Schwans deliver frozen food in monthly supplies to our home in Ohio back in the days of the recession in the late '70s. Without their price breaks I would have really been hurting. Also, the food was very good and frequently they just gave us extra stuff. We ate everything that they brought, and loved it. I really missed them when I moved down here in 1980. Allen Evans Covington, LA =============================================

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2079	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Last Schwans related note

If you want to contact or read more about Schwans see http://www.schwans.com/home.htm or subscribe to the Schwans@onelist.com Thank You -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2080	From: Bill & Diane Wade, B.T.S.	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Status of Things at B.T.S.

Howdy Friends it has been a while since the last report. We have been a bit busy down here! ----------- Magazine The latest issue of the S/Sn3 Modeling Guide goes in the mail on 3/20. Take a look at the cover and contents at http://www.modelingguide.com/newissu.htm ----------- E.B.T. Projects..... Orbisonia Station in S and O I must apologize for not meeting the proposed delivery date on the Orbisonia Station. We have been working seven days per week for many months now trying to meet the obligations we have made, and those made by the previous owners of Master Creations prior to our purchase last year. And we have made a bunch of progress, but you still do not have your station. We lost a month waiting for data from the railroad, only to receive a nasty-gram with a flat refusal to help - this even after a face-to-face promise to help in October. And we ran into some challenges with the last HO kit which slowed us down. By then, our laser schedule was jammed up with another project so we had another delay. We are trying to improve the production scenario to speed things up. There is a good side to the delays. An idea hit me one night about a better way to do the bays and porch posts. So the original drawings were discarded and a new, nifty construction technique was incorporated. Much nicer detail, and easier to assemble. We have the shingles cut, some of the detail parts ready, and finally, after another frustrating delay with the folks in Korea, the neatest photo etched brass snowshoes for the roof! I would rather have you frustrated with us for slow delivery of a great product than for poor quality of a product you got quickly. Since March is almost over, it will be next month before we start shipping. Three-Bay Hopper in Sn3 We received the sample the last day of December, and approved the patterns the next week. To date, we have not heard back from the subcontractor about the delivery schedule, nor have they responded to our requests for a proposed schedule for the other urethane projects they promised in 1998. We will get these hoppers, but I cannot say exactly when. #11 & #12 in Sn3 and On3 Frankly, the income from the 1998 urethane projects was going to help fund this project. We will still do these locomotives, but must wait until at least the three-bay hoppers are here before we put any emphasis on the locos. It is very frustrating!!!! Saltillo Station in S and O This station will follow the Orbisonia Station. We gathered enough data on the last two trips to PA, and with some additional stuff from Lee Rainey, we have sufficient data to do a good job on this kit. It will be available in HO also, so tell your friends in the small scale. Other E.B.T. Stuff We are still committed to doing all we can to build this railroad in Sn3, and to help the On3 modelers finish their line. There are many projects waiting their turn, and we will get to them. After the frustrations we faced above, we will not be promoting anything until it is ready to ship. Help Needed Still looking for photos and information on the Timber Transfer and the Mt. Union Transfer Shed. ----------- Sawmill in S and O The work on the mill has been a chore; actually, it has been a pain in the $%#@&! For as we discovered after purchasing Master Creations, there were a lots of folks who were having problems building the HO version. We quickly found one of the reasons why - the instructions were weak and many of the laser-cut parts were not numbered or identifiable. On top of that, some parts just did not fit well. So rather than the expected, simple, straight-forward conversion, we are having to first find the parts, then verify that they actually fit before converting them to S and O. Our instructions will be much nicer! The parts will fit! And a detailed parts list will be included in the box! In addition to the design problems above, there were several things about the mill that just were not right as far as we were concerned. For example, an office was directly under the saw carriage. Imagine being the boss and trying to work with the noise, the sawdust, and the danger caused by those cables running by your desk! So we moved the office. And the loading dock area is too small, so it is being reworked now. So there are the reasons for not being finished, but where are we in the process? To date, we have finished converting the framework for the main building, designed and built the new boiler house, finished the slip jack, and the trestle on the side to both S and O scales. The rafters on the main building are done, and so is the saw filer�s workroom. The loading dock will be completed shortly. After that, we have all the little details like stairs, ladders, doors, etc., the wooden parts of the machinery, and the roofs. It really will not be as long as it has been!!!! We have a spot set aside for the mill in our booth at the NMRA National Train Show in July, so it had better be there! ----------- That about covers it. Thanks for your support! Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2081	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Schwan's, CNW, CR log loads

To contact your local Schwan's frozen foods man, use your browser to find the Schwan't website, and check on how to contact your local agent. CNW Left Handed I read a history of the CNW. That history had a different reason for CNW running lefthanded. Here's what I remember. The track was built single track. A station was built. Later, the line was double tracked. For some passenger train reason, they wanted trains going in direction "X" to be able to stop at that station and board passengers without crossing the other mainline. To accomplish this, the trains had to run lefthanded. Log Loads on ConRail Saw about 8 loads of LOGS on a Conrail freight westbound through Rochester NY this morning! Strange!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Nick O'Demus ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2082	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 173

It is certainly true that in the US, 220 volt is two out of phase 110 volt lines with ground in the middle. I don't know if that would be the case in Norway or not, but even so I would be leery of using the ground to carry the full current of your load. The ground is a safety feature and, at least in older US installations, may not be sized to carry the same amperage as the main wires. 50 Hz rather than 60 Hz is unlikey to cause a problem. Most transformers are actually optimized for 55 Hz and work equally well on 50 or 60. The worst case effect of using a 60 HZ transformer at 50 HZ is a loss of some efficiency, whig means it would get hotter. >Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1999 18:10:26 -0500 > From: "The Velapoldi's" <velapold@...> >Subject: European Voltage, Lists > >A question and some information: >1) I will be moving to Norway in the near future and wonder about theuse >of AF transformers in Norway. I know that I can get a transformer from >220 to 110 V, but it seems odd to have transformer - transformer to get >to 7-18 V AC that one needs. However, I understand that the ground is >at 0 volts, the + is at +110 V, and the negative is at -110 V. Thus, if >I can figure out which are the ground and + voltage supply, I would have >a difference of 110 volts. Is this true (for AC operation). Anyone in >Europe thought of or tried this possible solution? > >2) I am thinning a few things in my accumulation - some LTI AF sets and >some early 60's scale kits, built and unbuilt such as Kinsman, >Northeastern, NIMCO, Permabilt, Regal and a Rex 2-4-4t. > >Anyone interested in these short lists, please drop me an e-mail and I >will e-mail >back the lists with asking prices. Tx. >Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2083	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: AC&Y

This is a bit late, but.......... The August 1998 Mainline Modeler reports that the Akron, Canton, and Youngstown RR Historical Society has S scale decals for the AC&Y 70 ton ACF covered hopper. This is especially interesting because this hopper is a bit "colorful". The body is light grey, with black roof, underframe, hoppers, and doors. $6 from AC&Y Historical Society Bookstore PO Box 196, Sharon Center, Ohio 44742-0196 The Irishman in the Bible was..... Nick O'Demus and the Irish Constellation has already been answered in these pages by another reader; O'Rion. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Every niche has its place! ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2084	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's

Yes, it exists, at by looking at the catalog. Hmmm!!!! Maybe I'll write to Schwans making a big deal out of not getting what was pictured and end up with it!!!!<BG> S David What was eBay's phone number????? (Hey, the above is a JOKE!!, don't respond to it!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2085	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/19/1999
Subject: L Letter

Hmm, I have read some references to a Letter from big L regarding AF. I've even heard that they've 'temporarily withdrawn' the line, to be re-released later with many changes. Does anyone have confirmation of any of this, or a copy of the letter they could post? Out here in No AF land. David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2086	From: Craig Stair	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Re: AC&Y

Ted, I am a member of the AC&Y and have the decals. Interesting RR name since it never went to Canton or Youngstown or even the direction of those two cities from Akron. Craig Stair Dallas TX > -----Original Message----- > From: mhrreast@... [mailto:mhrreast@...] > Sent: Friday, Mtclarson@... 19, 1999 10:42 PM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Cc: tclarson@... > Subject: [S-Trains] AC&Y > > > From: mhrreast@... > > This is a bit late, but.......... > The August 1998 Mainline Modeler reports that the > Akron, Canton, and Youngstown RR Historical Society > has S scale decals for the AC&Y 70 ton > ACF covered hopper. This is especially interesting > because this hopper is a bit "colorful". The body > is light grey, with black roof, underframe, hoppers, > and doors. > $6 from AC&Y Historical Society Bookstore > PO Box 196, Sharon Center, Ohio > 44742-0196 > > The Irishman in the Bible was..... > Nick O'Demus > > and the Irish Constellation has already been answered > in these pages by another reader; O'Rion. > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > Every niche has its place! > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Have you visited our new web site? > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2087	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Re: Ro and AF engines

In a message dated 3/20/99 3:50:42 AM, you wrote: << I just received a GP-9 S-gauge switcher (Lionel AF48020) from Charle's Ro Supply in Masachusetts. Price brand new was $139.95. That seemed like a pretty good deal to me, and indicates dealers are free to sell 'em at whatever point they wish. >> This is restating previously-posted info, but the story is that RO bought out ALL remaining SP and MRd geeps from the factory last fall, and is selling them off at rock-bottom prices......FAR lower than any dealer or hobby shop can buy them WHOLESALE !!! That's why you're seeing them at that price from Ro....... Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2088	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: So what's wrong with the 'South'

I've just started a small & simple Sn3 exhibition layout called the Blackwater Southern. The BSRR is a 3ft gauge common carrier situated on the edge of the South Carolina swamps. Most traffic is logs, pulpwood and barrels of Turpentine. The layout is set in the immediate post war period:1945-50. The layout features a standard gauge interchange spur, for which there is a need for some local std gauge freight cars. When I started looking I was very surprised by the relative lack of suitable freight cars. The railroads I focused on were the Southern, ACL and Seaboard, they were the major players in South Carolina. The list of freight cars that I came up with were: LVM ACL Phosphate Car. PRS ACL 50ft SD boxcar SHS ACL Stockcar PRS Southern 40ft boxcar AM Southern 46ft Flat Car SHS Southern 52ft Bulkhead Flatcar AM Southern 2 bay ribbed hopper AM Southern 4 bay ribbed hopper AM Southern 52ft Mill Gondola - currently not available AM Seaboard 40ft Boxcar - currently not available PRS Seaboard 40ft Boxcar AS Seaboard 40ft Ventilated Boxcar - currently not available The Southern is reasonably well covered but not so the ACL or SAL, and the FEC not a hope. A question: Is this paucity of freight cars for 'the South' reflected in other scales HO - O scale? and why is 'the South' a poor relation to other topigraphical areas? -- Kelvin White Oxford England.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2089	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: So what's wrong with the 'South'

I've just started a small & simple Sn3 exhibition layout called the Blackwater Southern. The BSRR is a 3ft gauge common carrier situated on the edge of the South Carolina swamps. Most traffic is logs, pulpwood and barrels of Turpentine. The layout is set in the immediate post war period:1945-50. The layout features a standard gauge interchange spur, for which there is a need for some local std gauge freight cars. When I started looking I was very surprised by the relative lack of suitable freight cars. The railroads I focused on were the Southern, ACL and Seaboard, they were the major players in South Carolina. The list of freight cars that I came up with were: LVM ACL Phosphate Car. PRS ACL 50ft SD boxcar SHS ACL Stockcar PRS Southern 40ft boxcar AM Southern 46ft Flat Car SHS Southern 52ft Bulkhead Flatcar AM Southern 2 bay ribbed hopper AM Southern 4 bay ribbed hopper AM Southern 52ft Mill Gondola - currently not available AM Seaboard 40ft Boxcar - currently not available PRS Seaboard 40ft Boxcar AS Seaboard 40ft Ventilated Boxcar - currently not available The Southern is reasonably well covered but not so the ACL or SAL, and the FEC not a hope. A question: Is this paucity of freight cars for 'the South' reflected in other scales HO - O scale? and why is 'the South' a poor relation to other topigraphical areas? -- Kelvin White Oxford England.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2090	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Alco Slugs

Greetings from across the pond. I have a Sunset/Miller S2/S4 body and chassis with curvemaster trucks that I want to convert into a cabless slug unit. Can anybody suggest any WWW sites with good close up photos of same. TIA -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2091	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Euro Voltages

Rance Velapoldi <velapold@...> wrote: I wonder about the use of AF transformers in Norway. I know that I can get a transformer from 220 to 110 V, but it seems odd to have transformer - transformer to get to 7-18 V AC that one needs. However, I understand that the ground is at 0 volts, the + is at +110 V, and the negative is at -110 V. Thus, if I can figure out which are the ground and + voltage supply, I would have a difference of 110 volts. Is this true (for AC operation). You are correct in your assumption, Rance, that each leg of the 220 VAC line will yield 110 VAC to ground. Fact is, it works that way right here in America. If you test a 220 VAC outlet, each side will show 110 VAC to ground. In single phase power distribution, the voltage from peak to peak on the sine wave of AC is 220 Volts. Peak to base line is 110 VAC with each positive peak 180 degrees out of phase with its consecutive negative peak. HOWEVER . . . The base line is a representation of NEUTRAL, not ground, and while neutral and ground are usually bonded together at the main box entry point in any dwelling, they run through the building as separate wires. The neutral will carry current as a result of phase load discrepancies. The ground carries NO current and exists as a safety in the event a rapid path to ground is required to run down current and break a circuit. In this country, it is sometimes possible to find a four wire 220 VAC circuit where both neutral and ground are present (such as a stove or clothes dryer line) because there are 110 volt accessories such as lights, fan blowers, timers and the like combined with the 220 volt appliance. In Europe, don't expect to find a neutral. Everything is running on 220 VAC, so no 110 volt line is needed, thus no neutral. If you use the ground, you are creating safety issues and could find yourself operating with some bizarre and wild voltages from time to time. Do not expect the 110 VAC to ground to be reliable. In addition, you may find a 50 Hz operating frequency. Although most modern transformers are 50/60 Hz. compliant, old Gilbert units are most likely NOT. There is also the question of whether the locomotive motors will perform properly at 50 Hz. New Flyer, AM or SHS engines might be OK, but old Flyer may overheat and eventually burn up at the wrong frequency. My recommendation, get a new transformer rated for the circuits into which it will be plugged and monitor your old Flyer engines carefully. For most solenoids and lightbulbs, it won't matter, but motorized accessories need to be watched as well. And, yes, I would like a list of your goodies for sale, thank you. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2092	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Re: So what's wrong with the 'South'

Dear Kelvin, In general, Southern railroads do not sell as well as others. I am not sure why this is true, but when we marketed American Models stuff and our experience with ours we noticed this. But, color seems to always sell. We only have a few ACL SW-9s left. When I reluctanly proposed that scheme, I really thought I was sticking our neck out. But, I was pleasantly surprised. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2093	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Re: So what's wrong with the 'South'

Dear Kelvin, More Southern info can be found at: http://www.geocities.com/~sou-ry/ -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2094	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: WAHL hair clipper oil - attention ROGER HINDS

I recently bought bottle of track oil(WAHL's clipper oil) from a gentleman named Roger Hinds. Included with my oil was a request for feedback. I have not any problems on my small home hi-rail layout, 8'x8', which uses AM code148 track. However I wanted to use this product on my club's modular layout, which uses AF and K-line traditional type of track. At our last get together I forgot to bring along the track oil, so until I recently bought a 1959 Tri- ang(British) H0 gauge train set I was unable to test the track oil. Tri-ang track has a plastic roadbed and solid, plated, steel rails and to get the loco to operate smoothly I was constantly cleaning the rails with a cloth. The loco would operate for awhile, but would eventually I would have to wipe the rails clean. Then I remembered the WAHL's, let me tell you this product is everything Roger said it would be. I followed Rogers instruction and put a drop of oil on each rail and the operation changed dramaticlly . I haven't cleaned the rails the last two days and I have been operating the loco every time I go into the train room. I have another British loco, a Dapol, 00 scale, 16.5mm gauge which never seemed to operate properly on my small British style switching layout, nickel-silver rail, but it operated very nicely on the Tri-ang steel track with the oil on the rails. I would reccommend this product to all. I hope Roger see this e-mail, I could not find his address to contact him personally. Thanks Roger, it was worth every cent. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2095	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: Wahl Oil

I have to agree with everything that was said about the Wahl oil, I have been using it for about 20 years and it is the difference in operating and cleaning all the time....I use it on my track, on both AC and DC motors and brushes, valve gear, gears...whatever and the flyer guys will see a big change in pulling if you will oil those truck journals on that rolling stock every now and then. .......The Wahl oil works really well for me, you try it and decide where you want to use it. Gale Hall Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2096	From: Brian Johns	Date: 3/20/1999
Subject: 26671 Track Trip Wiring?

Greetings all! I recently picked up a #26671 track trip at a train show and when I got home I found out all my AF instruction books are too old for an item with 5 digits. Can someone tell me how this thing should be wired? It has two wires coming from it (black and yellow) and a thumb screw on the base. Thanks! -=[ Brian ]=-

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2097	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: 23671 trip

If this is the canister-shaped one, you create an insulated zone of 3 sections in the base post rail with 2 fiber pins. One wire goes to base post, one to the insulated zone (I'm not sure which is which). Thumbscrew is connected to base post when loco in insulated zone. All accessories (switches, semaphore, etc.),must be wired backwards because trip provides connection to base post not fixed voltage post. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2098	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: New (to me) Ertl truck

Hi Everyone I picked up what I think is a new Ertl 1/64 utility truck at the hobby shop yesterday. They had 4 different types, all Ford F-350 with dual rear wheels. Two were utility beds, one farm service and one maintenance. One flat bed and one stake bed were also available. These trucks have the self-adhesive vinal signs which are easily removed and the glue cleaned up with a dry rag. I have made some decals with my railroad's logo in different sizes. I used one of these to re-letter the cab doors and now I have a RR service truck. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2099	From: John Foley	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Message: 5 Date: Sat, 20 Mar 1999 21:20:16 +0000 From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> Subject: Alco Slugs Greetings from across the pond. I have a Sunset/Miller S2/S4 body and chassis with curvemaster trucks that I want to convert into a cabless slug unit. Can anybody suggest any WWW sites with good close up photos of same. TIA -- Kelvin White Oxford England Hi Kelvin I like the following website. http://www.dnaco.net/~gelwood/ Lots of Alco switchers, maybe you can find something you can use John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2100	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Hi Everyone... I just bought a die cast 18 wheeler (AHL The Great American Brewery Collection) at a close out price from my local hobby shop. I can't complain about the model's quality and the price was super. However, the beer company logo on the trailer is Hamm's Beer (" From the Land of Sky Blue Waters"). I am now wondering if this truck would have any business being on my proposed layout which will be part of the Pennsylvania RR. The era (50's ) is OK as I was told that the tracter is a 53 ford. Anybody out there ever hear of Hamm's Beer? Thanx for any assistance. {S}incerely Joe Langellotti

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2101	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Hamms....

OK all, Let's sing along!! From the land of skkkyy Bluuee Wa-a-aters, Comes the big refreshing taste of Hamms! Hamms, the beer refreshingest, Hamms, the beer refreshingest... Haaaamms!!!! OK I saw too much TV as a kid!! They also had a Hamms Bear who was always doing something sorta like Yogi Bear. These memories are from about 1959, and I was raised in Northern Calfornia. The era might be right, but the local??? Hmm I dunno! Maybe it was just out here, like Coors? S' David D. (Who doesn't even like beer!!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2102	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Hamm's

Joseph/David: The Land of Sky Blue Waters is, I believe, Minnesota. Hamm's is, and has been, distributed throughout the mid west for years. I wasn't aware of its Calif. connection, but anyhow, yes a PRR layout would be fine for Hamm's, as long as you operate west of PA. If not, locate an Iron City truck. The Hamm's Beer Bear would look good on a Crown Reefer! Later Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2103	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Hamm's Brewery open up a brewery in the city of Baltimore, Maryland in the late 50's early 60's I believe. They bought out the local Gunther's brewery which was one of group of independent breweries in the city at that time. Hamm's never quite caught on with Baltimore brewski drinkers and left town after a few years. There are no large breweries in the "Big B" anymore. The most famous famous was the National Brewery which brewed "National Bohemian" affectionaly know as "Nat'y Boh". It is still available but is not locally brewed. As a young man of Irish decent, I and my brothers did our upmost to keep the local brewers in business but we were no match for the national brands and there millions of dollars of advertisements. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2104	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Hamms Beer

Hi Everyone... Thanx for all the responses...Anyone want to buy a Hamms Beer truck cheap? Thanx again Joe Langellotti

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2105	From: Gale Hall	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Hamm's

Joe Park the truck at the tavern not next to the roundhouse and you'll be ok...... Gale Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2106	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: beer

Gale: you are so right ! There was a legendary train wreck on the New York Central's West Side Freight Line during my childhood in which a car full of cases of beer was derailed. Reportedly(?) the entire car was emptied by a human chain, passing the cases hand to hand up and out of Riverside park. Wonder how they knew which car had the beer in it. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2107	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Weekend Wrap

Well, spring is coming to Minnesota and that means running to Soccer, cleaning the yard and still finding time to work on the railroad. If you have not stopped over to the NASG 1999 Convention web site, take a look. For all of our Canadian and Modern modelers, the photo of the new CP engine is taken right in back of the house so you know you need to come to the convention because you will have the opportunity to do modern and Canadian rail fanning while enjoying great S fun. Actually time and finances are forcing me to scale back where I had hoped the layout would be when everyone visits. We did get the bench work in for the final town and that is on the end of a long branch that may be done in code 83 if there is enough interest in the club to hand lay track. I actually enjoy hand laying track and building turnouts but the temptation of time shortages makes flex track seem pretty nice. Well time is getting short and there is much to do. Don't forget to visit the NASG 1999 web site and look for more PPSSW layouts in upcoming magazines. The Minnesota Heartland will be in Railmodel Journal in about a month. Ken

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2108	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Re: Hamm's

From: "Gale Hall" <gale_hall@...> Joe Park the truck at the tavern not next to the roundhouse and you'll be ok...... Gale BUT!!! If you park it at the tavern next to the roundhouse, you'll be prototypical!!! <BG> S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2109	From: h2oman@xxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/21/1999
Subject: Hi rail to scale tender conversion

Anyone know if a set of scale tender trucks exist or what my second best option might be? Are Ace wheel sets my only choice? Repainting an AF #283 and adding details. Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2110	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Hi rail to scale tender conversion

Check out American Models tender trucks, they come in four and six axel. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2111	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Tender trucks

In a message dated 99-03-22 04:04:31 EST, you write: << Message: 13 Date: 22 Mar 1999 06:20:55 -0000 From: h2oman@... Subject: Hi rail to scale tender conversion Anyone know if a set of scale tender trucks exist or what my second best option might be? Are Ace wheel sets my only choice? Repainting an AF #283 and adding details. Thanks >> Steam Depot sells an Andrews leaf spring tender truck from Altoona Shops for $3.80 less wheels. Ace wheels (scale or hirail) fit. I would suggest using a bronze electrical pickup spring from an American Models loco or passenger truck. Works good for me. The new S Helper caboose truck is another possibility, though I haven't tried it yet. Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2112	From: Bill Clark	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Tender trucks

I've used the SHS caboose trucks in an AF 0-8-0 tender with sagami dc motor. The trucks work great, and are all wheel pickup. They cost $10 a pair. Only problem is that they are roller bearings. Doesn't bother me, but I expect many people would not find that acceptable. I've also used the SHS caboose trucks for power pickup on a reefer which was converted to diesel sound. AM will sell the trucks for the Pacific, I believe for $20 but check with Ron to be sure. Bill >From: Bilfrazier@... > >In a message dated 99-03-22 04:04:31 EST, you write: > > Subject: Hi rail to scale tender conversion > > Anyone know if a set of scale tender trucks exist or what my second best >option might be? > The new S Helper caboose truck is another possibility, though I haven't >tried it yet. > >Bill Frazier > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Start a new hobby. Meet a new friend. >http://www.onelist.com >Onelist: The leading provider of free email list services >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2113	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: S in L.A.

Hi, My butt is being dragged to L.A. for a few days in the first week in april. Anyone know of some good S related shops or clubs in that area. It might help make the trip more tolerable. Thanks, kbt p.s. I'll be in paris for a week at the end of the month but i think i can find some interesting stuff to do there! ;)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2114	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: S in L.A.

Keith, Hmm, I dunno, there's probably more S stuff in LA than in Paris!! S David D. On the other hand, Paris doesn't have as many drive-bys as LA.....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2115	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Hi rail to scale tender conversion

I think that River Raisin has code 110 leaf spring Andrews trucks that would be appropriate for the tender. These are the same tender trucks that were on the NYC H10b Mikado tender they have in stock. You can call Jim Kindraka(not on line for trains) at 734-451-0784, if you like, tell him Don Thompson gave you his number. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2116	From: Jim Hamlin	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Hamm's Beer

I grew up in the Chicago area and for me the Hamm's bear will always be associated with the Chicago Cubs -- Hamm's was a major advertiser (it was a St. Paul brewer). As I recall, when I was in college in northern Arizona and Olympia was my favorite beer, Oly bought Hamm's and that is how Oly crossed the Mississippi (used the Hamm's brewery to make Oly for the inlanders). The Oly motto, "It's the Water" certainly rang true -- big difference between the water in Washington State and St. Paul! Jim Hamlin jlhamlin@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2117	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Some random musings on E-Bay and train shows

I've been watching the American Flyer section of E-Bay for several weeks now and continue to be surprised by three things. 1. How much stuff there is. At any given time there is more American Flyer merchandise available than I have ever seen at a show (Now I've never been to York or the NASG convention so I can't comment on them.) Admittedly there is a lot of duplication, much of what is offered fits in what I would call the "Junk Box" catagory, And sometimes the same item is reoffered immediately if it's reserve was not met. 2. The hucksterism. Some offerings sound like they wre written by a situation comedy used car saleman. 3. The selling prices. These are amazing. Nothing that I have followed to final sale has gone at a price I would consider reasnable. I've seen junk that is close to give or throw away status go for over $30. Everything goes for prices above what a similar item would be priced at a show, and that is before the shipping and handling is added in. Is this a sign of a large and unsophisticated buying population with money to burn, or have show prices been depressed due to the limited audience that any one show can reach? This bring me to the subject of train shows. I went to the Spring GATS show in Cincinnati last Saturday. This is usually a decent show, not as big as the Indianapolis shows (which benifit from a cheaper venue in which to hold them), but reasoable. (Note: the Fall GATS show in Cincinnati is held 2 weeks after the Cincinnat NMRA show and as a result neither is what it could be.) This time the show was a disappointment. There was a considerable amount of unsold table space and the only dealer with a fair offering of flyer had asking prices that were approaching what I've been seeing on E-Bay. The conclusion to this, which I open to discussion, is a question: Is E-Bay going to be the death of commercial train shows? What about smaller swap meets? With the prices people are getting on E-Bay, with little selling expense, why bother to rent space at show, pack up your stock, sit in a drafty hall for two days and risk just having to pack it all up again to take home? Is this the future? Personally, I hope the shows survive. I, for one want to be able to examine any item before I buy it, but in particular any item where condtion is a major factor in price. (would you buy a used car via E-Bay?)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2118	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 176

I am looking for a May/June 1977 issue of S-Gaugian magazine to fill in a hole I have for that year. Does anyone have one of these they would part with? I also have these extras I would be willing to sell or trade: 1976 - Complete except for Jan/Feb issue 1977 - Sep/Oct issue Also, does anyone know when S-Gaugian first came out? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2119	From: Jim & Vicky Patterson	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 176

Does any one know of a american flyer track pin crimping tool (Hand) to lock pins into track sections and switches. And if so! where. "Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote: > From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...> > > I am looking for a May/June 1977 issue of S-Gaugian magazine to fill in a hole I have for > that year. Does anyone have one of these they would part with? > > I also have these extras I would be willing to sell or trade: > > 1976 - Complete except for Jan/Feb issue > 1977 - Sep/Oct issue > > Also, does anyone know when S-Gaugian first came out? > > Roger Petrella > Franktown, CO > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > We are proud as punch of our new web site! > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2120	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: 0-8-0 swithcher

HI, I picked up a 0-8-0 American flyer Steam switcher as a swap meet. I got it for a really good price because it has the wrong tender attached. When the engine is backed through curves and switches the tender tips losing contact with the track and then it either stops entirely or goes into neutral. I believe that if I got the correct draw bar between engine and tender I could fix the problem. However, the engine has no number printed on the cab. Inside top of cab has the date DEC1952 printed in white letters and raised letters and numbers PA 9466. Any idea what kind of engine I have and where I might find the part. Thanks for any help.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2121	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: vic bereskin's musings

i have to agree with vic-the shows are dying and e-bay is a very strange place.i don't think that the prices and attitudes are unreal,they're SURREAL- franz kafka on train collecting.greed seems to be the motivator,thanks in part to the tv shows like hgtv's collectable treasures and antiques road show. people who don't know the difference between a 300 AC and a 336 with the big motor are buying everything and paying too much,because they think that someone will pay even more for it tomorrow,as it's value has increased by the mere fact that they have owned it.the two big shows in my area-cheshire and the netca show in mass-really stunk out loud this year.with the notable exception of al redford,everybody there with flyer should have been wearing a mask and carrying a gun.the tinplate was a giggle and a half,too-at cheshire there was a dealer with a lionel "coffin" tender and 1600 series litho caboose,boxcar and gondola.someone had stripped the lithography and flashed nickel onto the bodies-he had $145.00 on EACH item!! doug peck,you should have been there-this show has gotten weird!! another table had some real beaters in std gauge. imagine 250 for a lionel 10 series flat with no load or couplers? such a deal!! what can we do?i really can't say,but staying away from shows is like biting off your own nose to spite your face-there are the parts people, and there are some guys who aren't feeding a cocaine habit(what else explains these prices?),plus running into friends with whom to p### and moan about the state of affairs. the best deals and finds i have done in the last couple of years have been by word of mouth,friend to friend, and with an antiques dealer i know who doesn't want to deal with trains. he turned me on to a "one of the first fifty" franklin set which i in turn traded for some accessories and parts from a friend-all 3 of us were happy with the deal. i think that the greedy ones are the big losers-they never will get it-that these are TOYS ,that they are meant for FUN,and we PLAY with them.so that's off my chest,it feels better,etc.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2122	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/22/1999
Subject: Re: Some random musings on E-Bay and train shows

Vic, Ah ha!! you've found why I've decided to dump my L stuff on eBay! Yep, very seldom does one find 'a deal' there, although it does happen. I picked up some catalogs, but that was before eBay started advertising in the 'regular market' (radio, newspapers, magazines, etc.). Since the advertising started, it's been crazy! As to buying used cars on eBay, there have been some Restored Model T Fords sold there! The Train show scene has been repeated out here too, at least with GATS. This may be reprecussions from their dishin' local club shows (They muscle their way into a venue just before the local show, or even push the local show out!). Maybe other vendors are staying away because of this! Also the table prices are getting astronomical! Over $100 a table! I'm an amatur, so doesn't effect me, yet! (if I do three shows in a year, I've been hustling). But there are strange things going on out there in real world land. That booming economy the government keeps talking about hasn't hit here, we have empty stores everywhere, some fairly large ones too! Many of my friends are refinancing their homes to keep ahead of bills, or are at least complaining about the times. Hmm. (maybe I need new friends??). Anyway, that's the report from Central California. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2123	From: jim	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: Re: Some random musings on E-Bay and train shows

I have to agree with the comments of others on Ebay and the train meets. In the local division of the TTOS, one of the people (ragtyme) will outbid me at the club auction turns around and then sells on Ebay. It's great for the seller at the club but I can not afford to compete with this person. When I was at a recent GATS a guy I was talking to was buying up any cheap cars he could find so he could put them up on Ebay. I agree that the prices at the shows have been higher and there have been less dealers. I have not been the high bidder on any flyer on Ebay since last summer. The prices have been going crazy and it seems to correspond with the increased exposure Ebay has had in the news and their increased advertising. I am happy for the sellers, but I can't compete with these bidders who have money to burn. I guess if I were one of the lucky people who are part of this boom economy I might feel differently. I agree with Dave D., the economy has not caught up to any one I know. I have owned a video store for over 13 years and I just don't see it. Half of the buildings in the strip mall I am in are vacant. Jim in Orange County CA.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2124	From: Rodney.Booth@xxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: eBay

AF items are way over priced and when you do win a bid and get the item , it is junk. I will never bid on anything from ebay again. Think I have learned my lesson. Rodney

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2125	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: eBay and the Local train Shows

Hi Ya'll, Here is a little more fuel for the fire. I have bought a bit on eBay and it has all been OK. I check my Greenburg guides before I bid and give myself a limit. The things I have bought have all been in the lower grades of quality - broken this or 'gee, I really don't know if it runs' on that. It is OK with me since I retruck, repaint and repower most of it. Maybe that means it is junk to some. But, it is good raw material to me. On the other hand, the prices at local shows (here in South Florida) are always way over the prices on eBay. They appear to be unrelated to the Greenberg guides. The condition of the items as described by most of the sellers are overstated. Except for those supplied by Brother Preman, I can be pretty sure that any engines I buy will not run. Some local hobby shops have some old Flyer. Their prices are even higher (although, their engines, like Mark's are in running condition). It may be that the evil speculators are looking to finance their retirement after selling a dozen items or so. But, an alternative explanation is that Gilbert stopped making these things a long time ago and there are a lot more people to buy them now. Over the years, toys break and some cannot be repaired. Some are lost. Since the supply is limited and will never grow while the demand keeps increasing, there might just be an economic basis for the inflation we are all seeing. Later, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2126	From: Jarcho	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: e-bay

Yes it's a known fact that people are both paying high prices and buying/selling a lot of junk on e-bay.Very interesting. Well, I think people are buying more junk than before because they have less money to spend. Because of the economy. the real spending power of many if not most people's money is reduced. The Flyer population is aging. Some of us face college tuition bills; others, the care of an aging relative. Some of us are retiring. Others are victims of downsizing or job exportation. These things end up being the difference between buying an E- diesel and a VG freight car. I also think that people are buying over e-bay because it's an exciting new way to buy and sell trains. Will this newness wear off soon? Probably. But for now, the excitement must be pushing prices up. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2127	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: more venting of steam

i was dumping on the cheshire CT show so much i neglected a load for the NETCA show.this is something that bugs me (and perhaps some of thee) about shows in general,but is PROHIBITED from TCA shows-BEANIE BABIES,fer gawd's sake!! there was a dealer with the dread BB's, and ERTL banks and trucks at the NETCA meet! now the ERTL stuff may squeak by as scenery/alternate loads,but the beanies???? these non-train related items have their appeal,fans and place, but it surely is not at a train meet.and returning to my previous load about greed,anyone visiting west haven CT is encouraged to visit the B-ball shop on campbell ave.-the trains there are an eye-opener and jaw dropper!!! if you know anybody who wants a poor condition 21085 for $250,it's waiting for him there.SHEESH!!-the toyguy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2128	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: S-Gaugians

I have the followng back issues of S-gaugian available for sale or swap: May 76, Jan 77, March 77, July 84. Lets say $2.00 each or $7.00 for all plus postage. Previous sale fell through. -Roy Roy E. Plotnick Professor Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences University of Illinois at Chicago 845 W. Taylor St. Chicago, IL 60607 plotnick@... phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279 web page: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/plotnick.htm "The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May Alcott

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2129	From: RBaratta@aol.com	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: Track

Hi Folks: I have a lot of Pikemaster track with a baby food jar full of track pins, if anyone is interested let me know and I will count the track and get back to you. Thanks. Bob: RBaratta@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2130	From: Jim & Vicky Patterson	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: Re: eBay

Mr. R. as a general rule if can not see it, touch it, or ask about it steer clear there trying to hide something. Pictures hide an awful lot. Wait for train shows or meets. don't get bit. Rodney.Booth@... wrote: > From: <Rodney.Booth@...> > > AF items are way over priced and when you do win a bid and get the item , > it is junk. I will never bid on anything from ebay again. Think I have > learned my lesson. > Rodney > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > We are proud as punch of our new web site! > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2131	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/23/1999
Subject: Re: eBay

While the previous posting has a lot of truth to it, "as a general rule if can not see it, touch it, or ask about it steer clear there trying to hide something. Pictures hide an awful lot. Wait for train shows or meets. don't get bit.", I feel I am obligated to say that I have dealt with some wonderful people on eBay. Some of these people have had no idea of what they were selling, some did. But all but one of the people I purchased from were honest about what they had, as best as their knowledge allowed. I bought some Model T Hubcaps from a nice person 'back east' and found one had a crack in it--hard to see, but still there. She was more than willing to allow me to return the set, or refund for the one, or (as we did work out) see if she could find another to replace it. I've had others who offered me more similar stuff VERY reasonably just so they could 'be done with it' without going through another auction. Maybe I've been lucky? BTW, the one person wasn't dishonest, just wasn't willing to post feedback for me, even though I did for him. Everyone else was more than willing to post, one guy even posted positive stuff for me just because I'd written him an important correction for his item description--that was a nice surprise! Back to playing with trains! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2132	From: J. Row	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: A WARNING! Then a speech that needs to be read and spread!

Hello! Nothing need be added to the following except an apology for the deleted portions (shown by #######) which requires an explanation and warning! I recently downloaded, from the net, an update of Netscape. Along with it came a program called "Net Nanny"! Don't ever, ever, ever get caught with this on your computer. It's worse than a virus! And the company (a Canadian Company) thumbs their nose at you when asked for help removing the dastardly thing from your computer. They allow you download a trial for free. Then they charge you for getting it back off so you can communicate. And their fix takes a computer guru to understand. Also the fix is fraught with more warnings about "you better get it right or you'll be messing something else up." There are many words that Net Nanny decides are bad; bad either in total or in part and crosses off many of the letters or words with "######". These words or parts of words are not evil! They are not naughty, they aren't suggestive, they are just words that you and I use to talk to each other! The name given to a song or a book is call a ###le. See what I mean? A group of people organized for the purpose of working together is called an ###ociation! There it goes again! And Net Nanny wants many bucks to talk to me about how to remove it. We are about to have to reprogram and reload all of my data in my whole computer to solve the situation! I'm going to have to pay a good friend, Sandyn, an expert in the field of of computers, to get me so I can "talk on paper" or "on the net" again. Shoot, I can't even write a well written and carefully worded memo to my business ###ociates! (There it went again!). It's interfering with my discussions with both friends and co-workers! Their (Net Nanny's) sales department just plays dumb (or maybe they are)! The program comes with an "uninstall" program but it didn't work! So LOOK OUT! Avoid the dumb thing like it was a bad disease! Again the culprit is called "NET NANNY"! Avoid it and tell your friends! Pass this on to all you know or can contact and let them know! Lets get thousands of people boycotting the company then maybe they'll come to their senses! Thanks for your help! Jim Row Now - - appreciate the following: Speech by Charlton Heston at Harvard Editor's Note: Charlton Heston addressed the topic 'Winning the Cultural War' at the Harvard Law School Forum, February 16, 1999. Here is the text of that speech: I remember my son when he was 5, explaining to his kindergarten class what his father did for a living. "My Daddy," he said, "pretends to be people." There have been quite a few of them. Prophets from the Old and New Testaments, a couple of Christian saints, generals of various nationalities and different centuries, several kings, three American presidents, a French cardinal and two geniuses, including Michelangelo. If you want the ceiling re-painted I'll do my best. There always seem to be a lot of different fellows up here. I'm never sure which one of them gets to talk. Right now, I guess I'm the guy. As I pondered our visit tonight it struck me: if my Creator gave me the gift to connect you with the hearts and minds of those great men, then I want to use that same gift now to re-connect you with your own sense of liberty ... your own freedom of thought ... your own compass for what is right. Dedicating the memorial at Gettysburg, Abraham Lincoln said of America, "We are now engaged in a great Civil War, testing whether this nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure." Those words are true again. I believe that we are again engaged in a great civil war, a cultural war that's about to hijack your birthright to think and say what resides in your heart. I fear you no longer trust the pulsing lifeblood of liberty inside you ... the stuff that made this country rise from wilderness into the miracle that it is. Let me back up. About a year ago I became president of the National Rifle ###ociation, which protects the right to keep and bear arms. I ran for office, I was elected, and now I serve ... I serve as a moving target for the media who've called me everything from "ridiculous" and "duped" to a "brain-injured, senile, crazy old man." I know ... I'm pretty old ... but I sure thank the Lord ain't senile. As I have stood in the crosshairs of those who target Second Amendment freedoms, I've realized that firearms are not the only issue. No, it's much, much bigger than that. I've come to understand that a cultural war is raging across our land, in which, with Orwellian fervor, certain acceptable thoughts and speech are mandated. For example, I marched for civil rights with Dr. King in 1963 -- long before Hollywood found it fashionable. But when I told an audience last year that white pride is just as valid as black pride or red pride or anyone else's pride, they called me a racist. I've worked with brilliantly talented homosexuals all my life. But when I told an audience that gay rights should extend no further than your rights or my rights, I was called a homophobe. I served in World War II against the Axis powers. But during a speech, when I drew an analogy between singling out innocent Jews and singling out innocent gun owners, I was called an anti-Semite. Everyone I know knows I would never raise a closed fist against my country. But when I asked an audience to oppose this cultural persecution, I was compared to Timothy McVeigh. From Time magazine to friends and colleagues, they're essentially saying, "Chuck, how dare you speak your mind. You are using language not authorized for public consumption!" But I am not afraid. If Americans believed in political correctness, we'd still be King George's boys-subjects bound to the British crown. In his book, "The End of Sanity," Martin Gross writes that "blatantly irrational behavior is rapidly being established as the norm in almost every area of human endeavor. There seem to be new customs, new rules, new anti-intellectual theories regularly foisted on us from every direction. Underneath, the nation is roiling. Americans know something, without a name is undermining the nation, turning the mind mushy when it comes to separating truth from falsehood and right from wrong. And they don't like it." Let me read a few examples. At Antioch college in Ohio, young men seeking intimacy with a coed must get verbal permission at each step of the ############################################################clearly spelled out in a printed college directive. In New Jersey, despite the death of several patients nationwide who had been infected by dentists who had concealed their AIDS --- the state commissioner announced that health providers who are HIV-positive need not. .. need not ... tell their patients that they are infected. At William and Mary, students tried to change the name of the school team "The Tribe" because it was supposedly insulting to local Indians, only to learn that authentic Virginia chiefs truly like the name. In San Francisco, city fathers passed an ordinance protecting the rights of transvestites to cross-dress on the job, and for transsexuals to have ############################################################ry. In New York City, kids who don't speak a word of Spanish have been placed in bilingual classes to learn their three R's in Spanish solely because their last names sound Hispanic. At the University of Pennsylvania, in a state where thousands died at Gettysburg opposing slavery, the president of that college officially set up segregated dormitory space for black students. Yeah, I know ... that's out of bounds now. Dr. King said "Negroes." Jimmy Baldwin and most of us on the March said "black." But it's a no-no now. For me, hyphenated identities are awkward ... particularly "Native-American." I'm a Native American, for God's sake. I also happen to be a blood-initiated brother of the Miniconjou Sioux. On my wife's side, my grandson is a 13th-generation Native American ... with a capital letter on "American." Finally, just last month ... David Howard, head of the Washington, D.C. Office of Public Advocate, used the word "niggardly" while talking to colleagues about budgetary matters. Of course, 'niggardly' means stingy or scanty. But within days Howard was forced to publicly apologize and resign. As columnist Tony Snow wrote: "David Howard got fired because some people in public employ were morons who (a) didn't know the meaning of 'niggardly,' (b) didn't know how to use a dictionary to discover the meaning, and (c) actually demanded that he apologize for their ignorance." What does all of this mean? It means that telling us what to think has evolved into telling us what to say, so telling us what to do can't be far behind. Before you claim to be a champion of free thought, tell me: Why did political correctness originate on America's campuses? And why do you continue to tolerate it? Why do you, who're supposed to debate ideas, surrender to their suppression? Let's be honest. Who here thinks your professors can say what they really believe? It scares me to death, and should scare you too, that the superstition of political correctness rules the halls of reason. You are the best and the brightest. You, here in the fertile cradle of American academia, here in the castle of learning on the Charles River, you are the cream. But I submit that you, and your counterparts across the land, are the most socially conformed and politically silenced generation since Concord Bridge. And as long as you validate that ... and abide it ... you are-by your grandfathers' standards-cowards. Here's another example. Right now at more than one major university, Second Amendment scholars and researchers are being told to shut up about their findings or they'll lose their jobs. Why? Because their research findings would undermine big-city mayor's pending lawsuits that seek to extort hundreds of millions of dollars from firearm manufacturers. I don't care what you think about guns. But if you are not shocked at that, I am shocked at you. Who will guard the raw material of unfettered ideas, if not you? Who will defend the core value of academia, if you supposed soldiers of free thought and expression lay down your arms and plead, "Don't shoot me."? If you talk about race, it does not make you a racist. If you see distinctions between the genders, it does not make you a sexist. If you think critically about a denomination, it does not make you anti-religion. If you accept but don't celebrate homosexuality, it does not make you a homophobe. Don't let America's universities continue to serve as incubators for this rampant epidemic of new McCarthyism. But what can you do? How can anyone prevail against such pervasive social subjugation? The answer's been here all along. I learned it 36 years ago, on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C., standing with Dr. Martin Luther King and two hundred thousand people. You simply ... disobey. Peaceably, yes. Respectfully, of course. Nonviolently, absolutely. But when told how to think or what to say or how to behave, we don't. We disobey social protocol that stifles and stigmatizes personal freedom. I learned the awesome power of disobedience from Dr. King ... who learned it from Gandhi, and Thoreau and Jesus and every other great man who led those in the right against those with the might. Disobedience is in our DNA. We feel innate kinship with that Disobedient spirit that tossed tea into Boston Harbor, that sent Thoreau to jail, that refused to sit in the back of the bus, that protested a war in Vietnam. In that same spirit, I am asking you to disavow cultural correctness with massive disobedience of rogue authority, social directives and onerous law that weaken personal freedom. But be careful ... it hurts. Disobedience demands that you put yourself at risk. Dr. King stood on lots of balconies. You must be willing to be humiliated ... to endure the modern-day equivalent of the police dogs at Montgomery and the water Cannons at Selma. You must be willing to experience discomfort. I'm not complaining, but my own decades of social activism have taken their toll on me. Let me tell you a story. A few years back I heard about a rapper named Ice-T who was selling a CD called "Cop Killer" celebrating ambushing and murdering police officers. It was being marketed by none other than Time/Warner, the biggest entertainment conglomerate in the world. Police across the country were outraged. Rightfully so-at least one had been murdered. But Time/Warner was stonewalling because the CD was a cash cow for them, and the media were tiptoeing around it because the rapper was black. I heard Time/Warner had stockholders meeting scheduled in Beverly Hills. I owned some shares at the time, so I decided to attend. What I did there was against the advice of my family and colleagues. I asked for the floor. To a hushed room of a thousand average American stockholders, I simply read the full lyrics of "Cop Killer" -- every vicious, vulgar, instructional word. "I GOT MY 12 GAUGE SAWED OFF I GOT MY HEADLIGHTS TURNED OFF I'M ABOUT TO BUST SOME SHOTS OFF I'M ABOUT TO DUST SOME COPS OFF..." It got worse, a lot worse. I won't read the rest of it to you. But trust me, the room was a sea of shocked, frozen, blanched faces. The Time/Warner executives squirmed in their chairs and stared at their shoes. They hated me for that. Then I delivered another volley of sick lyric brimming with racist filth, where Ice-T fantasizes about sodomizing two 12-year old nieces of Al and Tipper Gore. "SHE PUSHED HER BUTT AGAINST MY ...." Well, I won't do to you here what I did to them. Let's just say I left the room in echoing silence. When I read the lyrics to the waiting press corps, one of them said, "We can't print that." "I know," I replied, "but Time/Warner is selling it." Two months later, Time/Warner terminated Ice-T's contract. I'll never be offered another film by Warners, or get a good review from Time magazine. But disobedience means you must be willing to act, not just talk. When a mugger sues his elderly victim for defending herself ... jam the switchboard of the district attorney's office. When your university is pressured to lower standards until 80 percent of the students graduate with honors ... choke the halls of the board of regents. When an 8-year-old boy pecks a girl's cheek on the playground and gets hauled into court ############################################################ doorways. When someone you elected is seduced by political power and betrays you ... petition them, oust them, banish them. When Time magazine's cover portrays millennium nuts as deranged, crazy Christians holding a cross as it did last month ... boycott their magazine and the products it advertises. So that this nation may long endure, I urge you to follow in the hallowed footsteps of the great disobedience's of history that freed exiles, founded religions, defeated tyrants, and yes, in the hands of an aroused rabble in arms and a few great men, by God's grace, built this country. If Dr. King were here, I think he would agree. Thank you.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2133	From: The Velapoldi's	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Help

Would William Coomes please send me his e-mail address again? I have tried sending him return messages at bcoomes@... (actually, just a "return" to his request) and I keep getting error message for undeliverable mail because "550 <bcoomes@...>... User unknown". Sorry William, could not send the lists you requested. (Still a few items left.)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2134	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 178

May I suggest that the members of this list merely refrain from bidding on e- Bay items being offered by sellers operating in the manner described by Jim from Orange County? I know its not a complete solution, as there will surely be those that couldn't possibly refrain from bidding on a mint, in an unsealed box ( fill in the blank)......but I can tell you that I somehow gained an air of satisfaction by merely passing on several of these sellers' items. I suggest that we identify those dealers who are continually offering items as new or mint, etc, when the actual condition is well below, as well as those dealers obtaining items at auction and turning them around at greatly inflated reserve prices on e-Bay. These sellers will surely argue that their conduct is completely within the sphere of free enterprise. In response, I argue that we buyers are entitled to equally serve our own best interests, we may offer our opinions as to the honesty and integrity of sellers, the condition of their wares, and the manner in which they obtain them. I do not condone defaming anyone, I merely suggest an open forum for occassionally identifying persons whose operations are not in the best interests of the members of this list. I'm aware of e-Bay's feedback mechanism, however what can really be said in the 40 letters or so that you are alotted? Hmmmmmmm I can see the flames coming............

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2135	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 178

One of our list members writes in reference to ebay train sellers: > ...I merely suggest an open forum for > occassionally identifying > persons whose operations are not in the best > interests of the members of this > list..... The above statement seems odd to me, since the person writing the above statement doesn't even identify HIMSELF! I also feel that when you "identify" people, you might leave yourself open to lawsuits. This idea has been discussed on another (non-train related) collector list that I subscribe to. I think that discussing "items" in question is fine, but when you start discussing "people"....you leave yourself open for problems. S'incerely, Dennis Miami, Fl. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2136	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Re: e-bay etc.

Gf3897@... wrote: > I'm aware of e-Bay's feedback mechanism, however what can really be > said in the 40 letters or so that you are alotted? Hmmmmmmm I can see the > flames coming............ It's hard to flame someone with a name like Gf3897 - it just rings of integrity and authority. (insert emoticon here designating friendly dig to fellow rail) Art Armstrong

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2137	From: harrygbutler@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Re: Rochester (NY) Area S Gaugers March Newsletter

The March issue of the RASG newsletter is available on line at http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/marchweb.htm. The December issue can be found at: http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/decweb.htm. Harry Butler hgbutler@... ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2138	From: A50flyer@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: eBAY PURCHASE: [S-Trains] Number 178

HI S pals, ebay is a great idea, with generally poor results for the purchaser . I have recieved junk or good from most mail order purchases of used flyer like the warped body on the nos gondola from Hobby Surplus.still pending resolve. a50flyer / marty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2139	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: More on eBay and seller's reputations

Dennis has a good point, besides, this group has been exceptionally resistant to 'flaming' and I hope it stays that way. I suppose if you were bidding on something on eBay, you could ask the group to post you privately and tell you of any experience they've had with the seller, positive or negative. The feedback system does allow one to look for a pattern and see general complaints. I think you can even directly post the one leaving feedback to ask for more info. S' David D

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2140	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Manufacturers

This is a quote from page 32 of the May 1999 "Classic Toy Trains": "In the February and March issues of CTT we listed a variety of new accessories that were slated for Lionel's first 1999 catalogs. The no. 97 coal loader, the United Nations set, and the New Haven and Seaboard set have been delayed, while the other accessories have been cancelled" I would assume that "other accessories" includes the Flyer drum loader that they were going to sell in a Lionel box. It would appear that Lionel is unwilling to produce any item for which they are unable to get a large and fast per-order. On the same page is a larger box announcing MTH's new 90 page catalog. What if anything does this say for S? I don't know. Any speculation?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2141	From: Train Collectors Association	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Fwd: American flyer

We received this and will follow up with our membership. However I thought that the S-Trains group should be made aware of his problem. Ron Morris Toy Train Reference Library Train Collectors Association Strasburg PA USA >Delivered-To: toytrain@... >From: RPK91642@... >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 19:56:28 EST >To: toytrain@... >Subject: American flyer >X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 for Windows 95 sub 64 > >I live near Watkins Glen, NY and recently had an engine stolen from my home. >Is it possible to ask your members (in any way) if they may have purchased an >engine in Watkins Glen NY this spring or summer. I can readily identify the >engine and wish only to buy it back as it was a gift from my grandfather many >years ago (I am 56). Any suggestions you may offer in this matter will be >appreciated. Thank you, Bob Kennedy E-mail is either rpk91642@... or >bob_kennedy@... >Thanks >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2142	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: detailing AM units

Wonder who on the list has done a lot of detailing of AM diesels. Trying to find someone who I can exchange ideas with. cheers -- Alex Binkley, Hammond, Ontario, Canada

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2143	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: What's up with "big L"??

Interesting post on all the cancellations. I went to the web site to see if any info may be there. Hmm, they're still hawking '98 catalogs, including the AF one with the never produced stuff on the cover. last update according to the page was Jan. 21. Hmm. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2144	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: The Yorke

Hi Ya'll, This here is a report on my visit to the layout of our esteemed moderator. He ran several old Flyer steamers pulling mixed consists of newer and older rolling stock. Not only did we sniff smoke together, but, he allowed me to run one of my locomotives and a couple of cars over his flawless track. It was a hoot; he is a most gracious host. While there, he also used an SHS SW-9 to pull about 3 months production of Crown Models Refrigerator cars. I have heard it said that they don't make them like they used to and after seeing that, I must agree. The loco pulled smoothly and the cars were beautiful. When I held my head near the track, all I could hear was the click and clack of the wheels on the last half of the train. The engine was too far away to be heard. Thanks, Paul, it was a real good time. Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2145	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Re: What's up with "big L"??

>Interesting post on all the cancellations. I went to the web site to see if >any info may be there. Hmm, they're still hawking '98 catalogs, including >the AF one with the never produced stuff on the cover. last update according >to the page was Jan. 21. Hmm. The site has not really been updated since before that. I believe that the Jan 21 update was to close the online store. If you write to the webmaster, s/he will reply, so they are alive... Last time I checked with him/er (a few weeks back), s/he said that the Store should reopen in April. (There is, in fact, A new note on the home page asking for folks who own an old Lionel bridge of some sort to call for an interview) On a similar note, I tried to sign my daughter up for the Kids Club since she received a Lionel starter set for Christmas. In January, Lionel returned my subscription form saying that they had shutdown the kids club. Probably having troubles from all the people abandoning O27 for 'S'... ;-) Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2146	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: Warning-"Scaler comment"

Modellers all This is purely an observation, and nothing else...not meant to incite wars or such.. Might I be so bold as to offer the obvious. By obvious I mean clear to someone on the sidelines and not entrenched in the inner machinations of this your (Flyer etc) worthy pursuit. LIONEL is steering the "S" brigade up the proverbial garden path. It would seem that this section of their catalog is a thorn in their side and they simply do not wish to plow money into it. They strike me as a company with no real focus on the market-place. It is my understanding that they have been pushing product out into the market place to maximise current tooling. One would be forgiven for thinking that it is not their real intention at all to produce new product in the 1:64 market but possibly wait for an opportune monent to jetison it to someone else with a greater understanding of the Flyer community (and also with enough money to satisfy Lionel) It might be that they indeed do have image of where they wish to go in this segment of the market. However I fell this is not one conducive to the general feelings and sensibilitites of this following. In some ways I hope this is nothing but a rambling diatribe, but if you stand back a moment and have a cold look at the recent (10 years) history of this outfit, it is not an overly positive nor encouraging picture. This is indeed a shame for the "S" community in general, even those of us who are predominantly (from the dark side<grin>) scalers. regards :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2147	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 3/24/1999
Subject: S/Sn3 Modeling Guide

Congratulations to Bill Wade for a great issue and to list members Jeff English and Kelvin White for their contributions to the magazine. Jeff shows a couple of first-class models and provides some valuable information about the prototype boxcar and useful info on modeling brake systems and weathering. Kelvin's GTW caboose is outstanding! It's the kind of model where you have to check other parts of the photo to determine if it is a model or a photo of the prototype. Beautiful ageing and weathering here, too. At the risk of making a fool of myself again (will it ever end?) I must ask about Scenery Unlimited. Kelvin says he got his resin caboose kit from them and I cannot find any ads for them in many past issues of S/Sn3, Gazette, and recent Mainline Modelers. Art Armstrong

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2148	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Hamm's and Trains

I grew up watching Minnesota television. My favorite Hamm's ad was where an old-tyme train ran the length of the bar, and the flat cars were loaded with beverages by the bar-keep, to be transported by engineer Hamm's Bear to the awaiting patron. Thanks to all who reported where Hamm's could be purchased. I had no idea how far from Minnesota it was sold. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/marchweb.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2149	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Hobby Surplus

Marty wrote: I have recieved junk or good from most mail order purchases of used flyer like the warped body on the nos gondola from Hobby Surplus.still pending resolve. Marty: They're all warped. At the last York I examined gondolas and flats that Hobby Surplus had decorated (nicely, I might add, particularly a New Haven gon). Problem is, these are all Gilbert rejects. HS bought all the stuff Gilbert had on hand when it closed down. Over the years they have sold tons of it. Now they're down to the last of it. This includes mold rejects, bad batch stuff that Gilbert would have re-melted or tossed out. I knelt at the Hobby Surplus booth for the better part of an hour, going through boxes of these things. I was determined to find a straight (unwarped) New Haven gon. I gave it up eventually. Even though the price was right, the car never was. The HS boss was there. Nice guy, talked a lot, but basically, although he acknowledged the warpage, his attitude was, "what can you do?" and, "it'e genuine Gilbert, not a knockoff." I have one rule for buying trains. The common sense rule. I don't care who built it. It has to operate flawlessly and look great, or I don't want it. Everything I have heard (mostly from you guys) makes me realize that E-Bay provides great opportunities for abusers and thieves and people just trying to get rid of junk. It's fault lies in the purchasers inability to examine the merchandise. Even E-Bays staunchest defenders must realize this weakness. In any auction, there is an inspection period of a few hours. In any private purchase, there is the buyers right to reject substandard goods. The buyer always sets the standard. I go into antique shops and find an old rusty Lionel Scout set with pieces missing and edges broken and a blatant $325 price tag including the words "Rare" and "Mint" with "!!!" after each. Right in front of my face, where I can see the junk! Imagine what these guys could do on E-Bay! I reserve my right to laugh out loud and walk on. On the other hand, I do know where I can dump all the three rail junk I have accumulated over the years. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2150	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: Hobby Surplus

HI all, Interesting observations by Chris. I do know they (HSS) are getting to the bottom of their pile of stuff. It wasn't all rejects a while ago, as I have two NOS Bethlehem Steel Gons that just need trucks to run on my layout (the late, gray plastic ones, not the painted ones). And I bought 3 of their Shell yellow tank car kits. While the handrails were a bit corroded, the cars went together well, except that I had to drill a hole in the frame for the ladders, so they were probably rejects, or Gilbert may have been waiting to have them drilled (obvious sign of a mold problem). So I now have three "RARE:" KC Shell tank cars (hey, I didn't want pikemaster couplers on them!) that provide color on my layout. I even figured out how to pinch the handrail stanchions just like the factory did! (heat the shell w/ a hair dryer and squeeze with smooth jaw pliers--rats! I just gave away the secret! So much for *that* money-making venture<G>). Now I wish I'd bought a bunch of bay window caboose parts 10 years ago when they were really cheap. I was always going to get a round tuit. S' David D. PS Chris is right, rejects are rejects, no matter who made them.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2151	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: AC locos

When a loco is marked AC, is the motor the standard motor or is it ONLY to be used on AC? I've never been sure of this and have stayed away from these machines. Does anyone have a tender shell for a Silver Bullet? Just got a re-doer on eBay and need the shell. John Griffin RxMan46321@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2152	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: detailing AM units

In message <36F9D23B.F79@...>, Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> writes >From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> > >Wonder who on the list has done a lot of detailing of AM diesels. Trying >to find someone who I can exchange ideas with. > cheers Which AM diesels....? -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2153	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: S/Sn3 Modeling Guide

In message <36F9D693.1EAA@...>, Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> writes Art Thank you for the kind comments about the caboose - as my issue hasn't arrived yet I can't comment on what the photo looks like when blown up. I look forward to reading Jeff's article. >At the risk of making a fool of myself again (will it ever end?) Why break a great tradition.... >I must >ask about Scenery Unlimited. Kelvin says he got his resin caboose kit >from them and I cannot find any ads for them in many past issues of >S/Sn3, Gazette, and recent Mainline Modelers. Tell me I'm wrong - you model in S and don't own a Scenery Unlimited catalogue - it is the bible - SU are the retailing side of the S gaugian, with the exception of PBL Sn3 items nearly everything that is S in the catalogue cost is about $8.25 in the US. I imported 10 copies and sold them all. -- Kelvin White WHITEOAK MODELS Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2154	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] eBay and the Local train Shows]

Hello, I am new here, but have rediscovered the American Flyer Trains I owned as a kid thanks to EBAY. For years I have thought about trying to get trains long gone, back. I even spent money a few years ago to go to a train show here in Orlando, Fl where I live, only to find "just a little" AF stuff, overpriced and in poor condition. Hobby shops and train stores mostly give you blank looks when you mention S gauge. Back before Christmas I discovered EBAY. To me, it was like finding treasure. I am now building a 10 x 22 foot double track layout. I am the proud owner of a mint AF 346, a 470-471-473 and a lot more. I went to one Greenberg show in January. The stuff I saw there that was AF was for the most part overpriced. One dealer had these old trains just piled one on top of another in big boxes for people to paw through. Everything was treated like you were buying junk at an outdoor flea market. The prices, were beyond those of Excellent grade in the price guide. I didn't buy anything from him. I bought a 290 from one gentlemen that looked pretty nice; he said it ran. I took it to the test track, and it didn't get close to running. I returned it for refund. I bought a couple of cars from another dealer I believe to be very honest. The price was close to the price guides. After I got home and put one of the cars on a track, I found that it (a 945) had a serious warp in its body that I had missed; strange, because its body is diecast and not plastic! The next time I go to a show, I will spend a lot more time looking before I buy. I have had a couple of bad experiences on EBAY. I have built my own "black list" of sellers not to deal with again, but the list of sellers I repeatedly buy from because they are honest and offer nice pieces, is a lot larger. The feedback system has a problem though. If you honestly comment about a transaction that was unfavorable, the other person will often post back feedback against you, "tit for tat", even though he has to lie about it. People are very afraid to make a negitave or even NEUTRAL comment, for fear of having back feedback added to their own record, even though they are innocent. This is the weakness of the system. On the other hand, most people on EBAY, especially in the AF section, are good people and try to be honest. Prices are market driven, and so sometimes go pretty high. I have paid too much a time or two for something I really wanted. How long would I have to go to trains shows here in Florida to find a MINT 346? The two I have been to, had NO 0-8-0s in any condition! I read a lot here from long time AF collectors who thing that the prices have been driven to high. I am new, but don't understand this reasoning. I have priced the new AF by Lionel pieces, and their prices are like $50.00 for a boxcar for instance. Quite often I can buy the original AF item that was the model for the reproduction on EBAY for less than that. I think reality is that you may have been able to buy a boxcar for $1.49 in 1951, but if made today they would sell for what Lionel has asked. I would love to buy the original boxcar for the $1.49 ! But then, people worked for $40.00 a week back then. Thanks for reading this. I really enjoy reading this mailing list. Chuck Harrington > Subject: [S-Trains] eBay and the Local train Shows > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:36:29 -0500 > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > To: "S-Trains List" <S-Trains@onelist.com>Hi Ya'll, Here is a little > more fuel for the fire. I have bought a bit on eBay and it has all > been OK. I check my Greenburg guides before I bid and give myself a > limit. The things I have bought have all been in the lower grades of > quality - broken this or 'gee, I really don't know if it runs' on > that. It is OK with me since I retruck, repaint and repower most of > it. Maybe that means it is junk to some. But, it is good raw material > to me. On the other hand, the prices at local shows (here in South > Florida) are always way over the prices on eBay. They appear to be > unrelated to the Greenberg guides. The condition of the items as > described by most of the sellers are overstated. Except for those > supplied by Brother Preman, I can be pretty sure that any engines I > buy will not run. Some local hobby shops have some old Flyer. Their > prices are even higher (although, their engines, like Mark's are in > running condition). It may be that the evil speculators are looking to > finance their retirement after selling a dozen items or so. But, an > alternative explanation is that Gilbert stopped making these things a > long time ago and there are a lot more people to buy them now. Over > the years, toys break and some cannot be repaired. Some are lost. > Since the supply is limited and will never grow while the demand keeps > increasing, there might just be an economic basis for the inflation we > are all seeing. Later,Bill Porter ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2155	From: Scott Holm	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: (no subject)

> I also feel that when you "identify" people, you might leave yourself open to lawsuits. This idea has been discussed on another (non-train related) collector list that I subscribe to. > I think that discussing "items" in question is fine, but when you start discussing "people"....you leave yourself open for problems. I don't see why you couldn't post a story about a bad experience or dissatisfaction about an item purchased at Ebay auction, including the item number so those interested could go to Ebay and look at it and even see who the seller was. It's also not libel if the statements made are true and can be proven so. For example, "I purchased EBay item 999999, a 111 car that was described as excellent and when I got it, it had a broken this or that which was not mentioned in the description." If any list members felt this was serious enough they could do the legwork to find out who the seller was. Other members could just ignore it. I think it would be pretty difficult to make a court case out of that. By the way, it's a good idea to save the picture from the Ebay item description before the auction ends because since they aren't stored at Ebay, they may be gone or a different picture after the auction ends. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2156	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: AC locos

A loco marked "AC" is the usual universal wound motor and will run on DC. It was marked that way for a while to distinguish from permanent magnet DC motors which would only run on DC. RxMan46321@... wrote: > > From: RxMan46321@... > > When a loco is marked AC, is the motor the standard motor or is it ONLY to be > used on AC? I've never been sure of this and have stayed away from these > machines. > > Does anyone have a tender shell for a Silver Bullet? Just got a re-doer on > eBay and need the shell. > > John Griffin > RxMan46321@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life? > http://www.onelist.com > Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2157	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [S-Trains] eBay and the Local train Shows]

It all boils down to you having your right of choice, as long as it couples to the responsibility of keeping yourself well-enough informed so when you make that choice, you are as fully-informed as possible to do it correctly for you. Carry On Bravely. Chuck Harrington wrote: > From: Chuck Harrington <paketpet@...> > > Hello, > > I am new here, but have rediscovered the American Flyer Trains I owned > as a kid thanks to EBAY. > > For years I have thought about trying to get trains long gone, back. I > even spent money a few years ago to go to a train show here in Orlando, > Fl where I live, only to find "just a little" AF stuff, overpriced and > in poor condition. Hobby shops and train stores mostly give you blank > looks when you mention S gauge. Back before Christmas I discovered EBAY. > To me, it was like finding treasure. I am now building a 10 x 22 foot > double track layout. I am the proud owner of a mint AF 346, a > 470-471-473 and a lot more. > > I went to one Greenberg show in January. The stuff I saw there that was > AF was for the most part overpriced. One dealer had these old trains > just piled one on top of another in big boxes for people to paw through. > Everything was treated like you were buying junk at an outdoor flea > market. The prices, were beyond those of Excellent grade in the price > guide. I didn't buy anything from him. I bought a 290 from one gentlemen > that looked pretty nice; he said it ran. I took it to the test track, > and it didn't get close to running. I returned it for refund. I bought a > couple of cars from another dealer I believe to be very honest. The > price was close to the price guides. After I got home and put one of the > cars on a track, I found that it (a 945) had a serious warp in its body > that I had missed; strange, because its body is diecast and not plastic! > The next time I go to a show, I will spend a lot more time looking > before I buy. > > I have had a couple of bad experiences on EBAY. I have built my own > "black list" of sellers not to deal with again, but the list of sellers > I repeatedly buy from because they are honest and offer nice pieces, is > a lot larger. The feedback system has a problem though. If you honestly > comment about a transaction that was unfavorable, the other person will > often post back feedback against you, "tit for tat", even though he has > to lie about it. People are very afraid to make a negitave or even > NEUTRAL comment, for fear of having back feedback added to their own > record, even though they are innocent. This is the weakness of the > system. > > On the other hand, most people on EBAY, especially in the AF section, > are good people and try to be honest. Prices are market driven, and so > sometimes go pretty high. I have paid too much a time or two for > something I really wanted. How long would I have to go to trains shows > here in Florida to find a MINT 346? The two I have been to, had NO > 0-8-0s in any condition! > > I read a lot here from long time AF collectors who thing that the prices > have been driven to high. I am new, but don't understand this reasoning. > I have priced the new AF by Lionel pieces, and their prices are like > $50.00 for a boxcar for instance. Quite often I can buy the original AF > item that was the model for the reproduction on EBAY for less than that. > I think reality is that you may have been able to buy a boxcar for $1.49 > in 1951, but if made today they would sell for what Lionel has asked. I > would love to buy the original boxcar for the $1.49 ! But then, people > worked for $40.00 a week back then. > > Thanks for reading this. I really enjoy reading this mailing list. > > Chuck Harrington > > > Subject: [S-Trains] eBay and the Local train Shows > > Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 09:36:29 -0500 > > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > > To: "S-Trains List" <S-Trains@onelist.com>Hi Ya'll, Here is a little > > more fuel for the fire. I have bought a bit on eBay and it has all > > been OK. I check my Greenburg guides before I bid and give myself a > > limit. The things I have bought have all been in the lower grades of > > quality - broken this or 'gee, I really don't know if it runs' on > > that. It is OK with me since I retruck, repaint and repower most of > > it. Maybe that means it is junk to some. But, it is good raw material > > to me. On the other hand, the prices at local shows (here in South > > Florida) are always way over the prices on eBay. They appear to be > > unrelated to the Greenberg guides. The condition of the items as > > described by most of the sellers are overstated. Except for those > > supplied by Brother Preman, I can be pretty sure that any engines I > > buy will not run. Some local hobby shops have some old Flyer. Their > > prices are even higher (although, their engines, like Mark's are in > > running condition). It may be that the evil speculators are looking to > > finance their retirement after selling a dozen items or so. But, an > > alternative explanation is that Gilbert stopped making these things a > > long time ago and there are a lot more people to buy them now. Over > > the years, toys break and some cannot be repaired. Some are lost. > > Since the supply is limited and will never grow while the demand keeps > > increasing, there might just be an economic basis for the inflation we > > are all seeing. Later,Bill Porter > > ________________________________________________________ > NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? > Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at > http://www.netzero.net/download.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > We are proud as punch of our new web site! > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2158	From: whutton	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Minneapolis area train sites

Folks, I will be in Minneapolis for the first time, visiting the Great Mall over Easter weekend. Are there any train shops, shows, or other things of interest to a 44 year old Am. Flyer nut. I already have determined that the Minnesota Transportation Museum exhibits are closed until May! Thanks Bill Hutton

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2159	From: PatnDave	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: S/Sn3 Modeling Guide

Many of us are receiving the March/April issue of S/Sn3 Modeling Guide and some have already made their favorable comments. I'd like to add mine. I enjoyed Bill's editorial on "Whether to Weather". Weathering models my not be everyone's cup of tea but I happen to like it. Which is why I particularly enjoyed Kelvin's cover photo and article. His aging and weathering technique prompted me to recall another of his SMG cover photos of Feb/Mar 97. Those logically placed heavy rust spots really contribute to the realism. Jeff English's article on his AAR box cars is filled with useful and interesting information. I like the fact that he mentions the use of code 88 wheels. Another small feature in this issue "Model Railfan Photos" of John Tilts SRATCHBUILT GE U-50! Wow, very impressive! But that to my mind is certainly NOT the place to show that high caliber of modeling. MR Tilts needs to be persuaded to do a color photo spread with at least some degree of modeling techniques used to create such a masterpiece! Good issue Bill! Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2160	From: Cheri221@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Train Shows, etc.

Does anyone know of any train shows, or S clubs in the Seattle area? We are slowly building our AF collection, thanks to eBay. (We haven't had any bad experiences with eBay and AF stuff. All items resemble what they were advertised at.) Thanks...Cheri

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2161	From: Reis'	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: SeattleTrain Shows, etc.

There are a number of train shows in the Seattle area although mainly in the Fall. The main ones are mid Sept. in Lynnwood, Kent (Boeing show) in Oct/ Nov. Puyallup (GATS) in Nov. Also TCA meets every 4th Sunday in Lake City and 3 times a year in Chehalis. The best place to get the latest dates on shows would be Eastside Trains in Kirkland 425-828-4098, The Electric train shop in West Seattle (New # ,call info) and Ron Leventons in Chehalis (see ads in train mags). The Greater Seattle S Gaugers is a loose-knit group of about 25 S-gaugers that meet in various places around the Seattle area monthly except for the summer months. We are a bit selective but only to allow to the number of people we can fit and supervise in the houses where we meet. Send me a note and I will put you in touch with someone from the group. Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa. -----Original Message----- From: Cheri221@... <Cheri221@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Thursday, March 25, 1999 6:50 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Train Shows, etc. >From: Cheri221@... > >Does anyone know of any train shows, or S clubs in the Seattle area? We are >slowly building our AF collection, thanks to eBay. (We haven't had any bad >experiences with eBay and AF stuff. All items resemble what they were >advertised at.) > >Thanks...Cheri > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Ideas on how we can improve ONElist? >http://www.onelist.com >Check out the Suggestion Box feature on our new web site >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2162	From: Raymond Abbott	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: Net Nanny

Another place to post this warning about this program would be on netscapes news server. You may even find that other people have sent them posts on this subject. R.M Abbott. RASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2163	From: Richard Snook	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Burlington Roundhouse

Hi de hi Was just looking back through the OCT SMG and on page 47 is an ad for a crowd called Burlington Roundhouse Corporation. They seem to have some interesting parts on display. Can anyone expand on this?? Are they still in business?? What parts did/do they make?? Are the GP?SD hood ends theirs or some other company's offerings?? thanks :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2164	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: MPLS Trip

Regarding a trip to Minneapolis, the info that has been posted on S-Trains about the NASG convention tells you that there are good S layouts to see there. In addition, the O layout at BANDANNA square is fantastic. This is also worth seeing because its venue is a former NP coach shop, and seeing the old railroad buildings is most interesting. ALSO, there are many roundhouses and other good prototype railroad scenes to be seen in town. I try and catch a bit of this each time I am there. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/marchweb.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2165	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Big diesels

I'm curious about the DDA40X and DD35A models listed on pg 5 of the March/April SMG. I wonder how many S gaugers have layouts big enough to justify these locos which in real life were in the U.S. southwest? Or do these units go mainly to collectors? Any thoughts on this. This isn't a complaint about the choice of the units. It would be fun to have the space and bucks for one of these although a GP40 or SD40-2 would have more appeal for me. I notice that much of the steam power offered are models of the big articulateds which also would take a large layout. Can't say that I would mind being able to afford an Alleghany or an NS 4-6-6-4. While I'm modeling modern era, I did notice the Division Point Ten Wheeler on page 16. Would be a candidate for my tourist train. -- Alex Binkley, Hammond, Ontario, Canada

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2166	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 3/25/1999
Subject: Re: AM detailing

Hi Joe and Kelvin: Thanks for your replies. What I have are two AM GP9s, 2 GP35s, a PA1, an FA1, 2 FP7s and an RS3. I want to start with the GP9s using the DPH low nose and handrail kits. I was mainly looking for ideas of other parts to add such as DPH's grilles and louvers as well as MU stands, lift rings, windshield wipers, new horns, radio antennas etc mostly from BTS. I was just wondering what others have added. Joe, you said you were detailing the Pacific. You should do an article for the SMG. I would sure like some ideas along those lines as well. Great Van by the Kelvin. cheers -- Alex Binkley, Hammond, Ontario, Canada

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2167	From: Bill Banta	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Re: Big diesels

Alex and all... Here is one reason for the importers doing mostly large steam or diesel. The cost for producing a big boy is very close to the cost of doing a 4-4-0. So,....when the model comes in and you know what that big boy cost you and you see that the 4-4-0 is nearly the same price, you may not be compelled to purchase that model. I have to agree on your obsevation of the DD40X, far too large for most people. A GP or an SD or an ALCo or......would fit the bill fine. b. banta

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2168	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Re: Big diesels

Alex Well, I have a photo I took a few years back of a Centennial heading up the Feather River Canyon with a long freight in tow, so they weren't limited to 'wide open spaces'. But!! Only UP used them, and not that many made, so one does wonder how many modelers would be interested in one. OTOH, the AF RB & SB was patterned on a 'one only' loco--but that's toy train stuff! (No slam either way here, we're talking market potential only) The Centennial is a BIG loco, there's one in Portola, so I know them 'up close & personal'. At least it doesn't look dwarfed by the modern container cars, as most locos do. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2169	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Choices

You can go right, or get ripped off, any number of ways - - your local dealer, TCA shows, non-TCA shows, web-based dealers, or eBay. I'm just glad there are so many ways to shop and learn in the process (hopefully the hard way as little as possible, but in the end that's still up to me). I'd rather have more, than fewer, opportunities to buy, sell, and learn about trains as my interest and involvement in this hobby grows. Through both good and bad experiences so far, I've come to appreciate some of the advice on this list, and other precepts that are based pretty much in good 'ol common sense. - It's worth what you've decided to pay for it. - Know your limitations, or chalk it up to learning what they are. - Do unto others as.... - Don't like it, don't buy it. - The principles of supply and demand will prevail.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2170	From: Thompson, Keith	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Winross Truck Specials

Hi All, I just visited the Winross web site and the firm has several trucks at special pricing. To take a look, point your browsers to: http://www.winross.com/specials.htm -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Keith Thompson OSC Information Specialist AT&T, 10230 NE Points Dr. Kirkland, WA 98033 425-580-4567

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2171	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 179

I just recently purchased a #752 Seaboard Coaler that needs to be restored. I am not sure what all is missing since I do not have a close up drawing. However, I know that it needs to be rewired. Anyone know of a drawing showing the wiring, etc.? It also is missing the two roofs & one of the wire hooks that holds the clam shell. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2172	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Seaboard coaler

Mike: my Roundhouse column in the Sept/Oct '94 S Gaugian has a lot info on getting the Seaboard Coaler to work. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2173	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: Re: Big diesels

Of coarse you could always buy a DD40AX and run it as an excursion engine like the UP does with its 6936. Look at http://www.uprr.com/uprr/ffh/history/loco/locohs03.shtml for more details. You could say that your railroad is merging into "Unlimited Parking" and run an employee relations/fan trip. However, I imagine the price of the DD40AX model will keep all but the most liquid of us from indulging. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2174	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 3/26/1999
Subject: E-Bay: Swap Meet Implications

Visited a local hobby shop today (Traditional Hobbies in Downers Grove, IL) that has always been a parking lot vendor at The Great Midwest Train Show. According to the owner, he is giving up the shows and will only sell at his store or on EBay from now on. Makes sense to me; he gets more money that way. Shame for us if its a trend, though. -Roy Plotnick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2175	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Big Engines

Alex Binkley wrote: I'm curious about the DDA40X and DD35A models listed on pg 5 of the March/April SMG. I wonder how many S gaugers have layouts big enough to justify these locos. Actually, Alex, if you measure the length of just about any model railroad mainline, you will discover that there is no need for much more than a trolley car. Long interstate trains with sleepers and lounge cars are not very useful when the farthest destination is only five minutes away. Freight, on most pikes, would be overhandled by a switcher and two boxcars. Lots of modelers, realizing this limitation, choose to exploit it by running a little narrow gauge road between two sleepy towns. I happen to like 100 car unit trains with 5 engine lash-ups. I like 12-16 car long distance passenger trains. I love big motive power. Guys like me layer their layouts. While an FA pulls a three car commuter from station to station, a big, transcontinental train, belonging to a bigger road, stops for a moment on its way through town. You don't have to justify big power for your little railroad, you just grant it trackage rights and watch it go through! Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2176	From: Bill & Diane Wade, B.T.S.	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: Big Diesels

> Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:27:09 -0800 > From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> > Subject: Big diesels > > I'm curious about the DDA40X and DD35A models listed on pg 5 of the > March/April SMG. I wonder how many S gaugers have layouts big enough to > justify these locos which in real life were in the U.S. southwest? Or > do these units go mainly to collectors? Any thoughts on this. > This isn't a complaint about the choice of the units. It would be fun to > have the space and bucks for one of these although a GP40 or SD40-2 would > have more appeal for me. > I notice that much of the steam power offered are models of the big > articulateds which also would take a large layout. Can't say that I would > mind being able to afford an Alleghany or an NS 4-6-6-4. > While I'm modeling modern era, I did notice the Division Point Ten > Wheeler on page 16. Would be a candidate for my tourist train. > -- > Alex Binkley, > Hammond, Ontario, Canada These big hogs will run on the same layouts that currently support Sunset UP 4-8-8-4 and 4-6-6-4 with centipede tenders, and the Overland 4-8-4s. Some will go to collectors, but most S brass hits the rails. There is a strong group of UP modelers in all scales. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2177	From: Bill & Diane Wade, B.T.S.	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: AM Diesels

> > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 21:41:59 -0800 > From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> > Subject: Re: AM detailing > > Hi Joe and Kelvin: > Thanks for your replies. What I have are two AM GP9s, 2 GP35s, a PA1, an > FA1, 2 FP7s and an RS3. I want to start with the GP9s using the DPH low > nose and handrail kits. I was mainly looking for ideas of other parts to > add such as DPH's grilles and louvers as well as MU stands, lift rings, > windshield wipers, new horns, radio antennas etc mostly from BTS. I was > just wondering what others have added. > Joe, you said you were detailing the Pacific. You should do an > article for the SMG. I would sure like some ideas along those lines > as well. > Great Van by the Kelvin. > cheers > -- > Alex Binkley, > Hammond, Ontario, Canada > The S/Sn3 Modeling Guide will publish a detailing article for a D&RGW PA in the near future. We already did the FA-1. How about documenting the GP-9 project for an article? Thanks, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2178	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Checking in and checking out

Business trip until Thursday so I am out of the net but I thought that I would add a note on the big diesel thread. At the last NASG Convention, the Greenbriar folks suggested that the GP-30 was getting noticed by the collector community and I felt that this was very important to them. It causes me to wonder what percentage of the units go to collectors and what percentage to operators. This might suggest why drive and pick up are two areas that are historically under engineered in many brass cars and locomotives. I would bet that the large UP collector community is a bigger part of the target market than the S modeler or operator community for these units, that's great. To me it is no different than the latest offering from Lionel, it is just another phase of the hobby. On the other hand, the Minnesota Heartland could easily accommodate the units and I would be pleased to let anyone run them on the layout, leave it here so I can break it in for you. I know generous, unselfish...... but that is what a model railroading friend should be 8-). Ken Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2179	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: Scenery Unlimited AT&SF caboose kit

Dear Art, We purchased one of these kits (AT&SF caboose) several years ago for a customer and I lost his name. Oops! If you want one, let me know. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Arthur Armstrong wrote: > > From: Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> > > Congratulations to Bill Wade for a great issue and to list members Jeff > English and Kelvin White for their contributions to the magazine. > > Jeff shows a couple of first-class models and provides some valuable > information about the prototype boxcar and useful info on modeling brake > systems and weathering. > > Kelvin's GTW caboose is outstanding! It's the kind of model where you > have to check other parts of the photo to determine if it is a model or > a photo of the prototype. Beautiful ageing and weathering here, too. > > At the risk of making a fool of myself again (will it ever end?) I must > ask about Scenery Unlimited. Kelvin says he got his resin caboose kit > from them and I cannot find any ads for them in many past issues of > S/Sn3, Gazette, and recent Mainline Modelers. > > Art Armstrong

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2180	From: The Velapoldi's	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Sn3

I have been thinking about getting into Sn3 (on the basis of PBL's very nice mikado's, etc.) Two questions: 1) Any good references or websites to establish relative sizes, etc. vs S standard. 2) Would the old Kinsman baggage, combine, and coach kits work well in Sn3 by just putting appropriate trucks under them (or are they too large?)? tx in advance for info.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2181	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: 2-6-6-6 ALLEGHANY

Alex made reference to the Alleghany 2-6-6-6 as needing a larger layout. One of our club members bought the River Raisen model. It ran well on our module's 38" radius curves but then the gears disintegrated and he sent it back. They refunded his money and said that out of a run of 100 they only had 2 left and no parts for repairs. Staying on NASG track, Glenn ( NASG nominee for secretary )

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2182	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: MODULE LAYOUT SKIRTING?

The NPSG club is about to display our module at a local show. We have heard stories about many showplaces requiring flame proof fabric for the skirts or fabric below the deck. I have just contacted a local fabric distributor and they are quoting $16.00 per yard. Since our module would take about 72 feet or 24 yards we are looking at a cost of $384.00. This is about the cost of the 4 corner modules. I have also learned that flame proof sprays are very temporary and not acceptable at convention centers or by some fire marshalls. Any input or do we leave off the skirt where flame proofing is required? Our module is now updated at: http://members.xoom.com/northpenn_s/main.html Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2183	From: Dave Heine	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: Sn3

I'll try to answer some of your questions. > From: "The Velapoldi's" <velapold@...> > > I have been thinking about getting into Sn3 (on the basis of PBL's very > nice mikado's, etc.) Two questions: > 1) Any good references or websites to establish relative sizes, etc. vs > S standard. If you can get a copy of Hilton's "American Narrow Gauge Railroads", it has some descriptions and history of narrow gauge locomotives and equipment versus standard gauge. In general more modern narrow gauge freight cars were about 30' long. This is in the era when the typical standard gauge car was about 40'. Earlier narrow gauge cars were smaller with 24' being a common size. Most of the current plastic kits are for cars about 30' long. Of course there were exceptions, such as the D&RGW long reefers. > 2) Would the old Kinsman baggage, combine, and coach kits work well in > Sn3 by just putting appropriate trucks under them (or are they too > large?)? They are too large for a true narrow gauge car. Narrow gauge passenger cars are generally shorter, lower, and narrower. A typical length for a narrow gauge passenger car is about 44'. There were railroads that did put narrow gauge trucks on standard gauge cars, but there is not any real evidence that this was done with passenger cars. Passenger cars is one of the weaker areas in Sn3. The only kits that may be still available are the former Tomalco wooden craftsman type kit. Other than that you're in the used brass market, or maybe you can find one of the Starr/Tomalco urethane kits laying around someplace. However, this may change. PBL talked about plastic passenger car kits in their newsletter. > tx in advance for info. Let me know if you have any other questions on S narrow gauge. Personally, I think S is the best scale for narrow gauge. Dave Heine Lehigh & Western RR (Sn3) Hemm-Locke Lumber Co. (Sn3) Jamestown & Jennville RR (Sn2)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2184	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: E-Bay: Swap Meet Implications

We had a swap meet here in Sunny South Florida, today. At the meet, there was a guy with a large table full of Lionel and a little Flyer. One item he had was a Flyer 312, Pennsylvania with smoke-in-tender. He was asking $125 for it. The bad news is that it was missing all valve gear and connecting rods on the left side, the wires and tube from the tender were completely broken, the paint was terrible and the roof of the cab was badly bent as from a long fall to a concrete surface. I guess all of the unscrupulous sellers are not on eBay. Great Zot itS, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Roy Plotnick <plotnick@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Friday, March 26, 1999 11:21 PM Subject: [S-Trains] E-Bay: Swap Meet Implications >From: Roy Plotnick <plotnick@...> > >Visited a local hobby shop today (Traditional Hobbies in Downers Grove, IL) >that >has always been a parking lot vendor at The Great Midwest Train Show. >According to the >owner, he is giving up the shows and will only sell at his store or on EBay >from now on. >Makes sense to me; he gets more money that way. Shame for us if its a >trend, though. >-Roy Plotnick > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? >http://www.onelist.com >Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2185	From: BENPERRYJR@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: WALP SIDES; FIRST NAT'L STORE BELLOWS FALLS COOP CREAMERY

Am looking for a pair (will settle for one) of Walp sides for the First National/Brookside/Bellows Falls Coop dairy. If any one has any they would like to dispose of or unbuilt or completed kit, please advise Ben Perry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2186	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: MODULE LAYOUT SKIRTING?

Glenn, We run into this every Christmas when we put the tree up in the Church. Being a commercial building, it has to be 'fireproofed'. There is a solution that is sprayed on the tree to 'fireproof' it. I would think this could be sprayed on your draping material too, and have the same effect. Check with the local fire department, they should know what's apropriate! Let us know what you find out. It's an interesting requriement, as I know the table coverings/drapings used at the GATS show are just cheap plastic cloths--I know, 'cause I have a bunch of them for when I go to other shows--the museum just picks up all the leftovers we find after the show! And others do too, 'cause we find them using them too! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2187	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Flame retardant fabric.

Fire safety in model railroading is a very neglected topic that should be written about a lot more. I plan to investigate flame retardant sprays in the near future. My understanding is that sprays are available from theatrical supply houses/companies that can make fabric and paper flame retardant. If they are good enough for a theater, where fire marshalls are always at their fiercest, they ought to be good enough for a convention center. I assume that these sprays are 'industrial strength', more effective than what you might buy at a housewears store. So Glenn, I would look to a theatrical supplies dealer for a flame retardant. Perhaps it is something that should be used on home layouts too. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2188	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Has anyone ever figured out the Pullman plan numbers for the heavyweight cars produced several years ago by S-Helper Service? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2189	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: E-Bay: Swap Meet Implications

In a message dated 3/27/99 10:27:29 PM !!!First Boot!!!, wpporter@... writes: << From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> We had a swap meet here in Sunny South Florida, today. At the meet, there was a guy with a large table full of Lionel and a little Flyer. One item he had was a Flyer 312, Pennsylvania with smoke-in-tender. He was asking $125 for it. The bad news is that it was missing all valve gear and connecting rods on the left side, the wires and tube from the tender were completely broken, the paint was terrible and the roof of the cab was badly bent as from a long fall to a concrete surface. I guess all of the unscrupulous sellers are not on eBay. Great Zot itS, Bill Porter >> Bill, thats exactly whats wrong with this hobby. People who don't know how to grade, or don't care, and pricing garbage at EX values. Could be greed or stupidity as well, its anyones guess. Its got to stop too. I never buy overpriced garbage, and we need to all start to say NO. Unfortunatley, somewhere along the line some sap will happen along who will take the bait, and justify what these crooks are doing. Personally I don't care how scarce an item is, or how remote my geographical area may be, I could never justify paying rediculous prices for anything. I too am tired of going into hobby shops in my area (Philly), and seeing items like 994 stock cars priced at $190 with broken catwalks, and 307's priced at $75. They can keep their junk at those prices. I also get tired of recieving these newsletters from big time dealers hawking big collections, then seeing busted VG Gabe listed at $1,175. Rare maybe, but junk condition is junk condition, and that price is NOT justified, period. I can go on with the on-line dealers as well who buy huge collections wow!! But its all G+ and VG stuff for the operator/kitbasher priced like it was plated in gold. To those dealers I say forget it. Your not providing a service, but rather a disservice, and the sales tatics are unappreicated. Get glasses, get reasonable, or get out of the business. As for us folks trying to buy nice stuff without a second and third mortgage, I say we need to say NO if the grade or price is wrong. My 2 cents.... soap box is relinquished.....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2190	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Topeka, Kansas meet.

I have a flyer for the 16th Annual Topeka Model Railroad Show and Swap Meet, scheduled for April 17-18 at Whiting Field House, Washburn Univ., Topeka. Advance admission $3, swap tables available, of course. One of the dealers that is a major organizer of this meet is Duane McDaniel, he carries quite a bit of S, buth scale and hi-rail. info from Terry Posten, 5025 NW 52nd, Topeka 66618; e-mail 103045-2047@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2191	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Re: Seaboard coaler

Mike, I was about to send you a scan of a diagram from my K-Line Service Manual, but when I looked closer, the exploded diagram in that book that is labeled for the Seabord Coal Loader, is really for the 785 Coal Loader. No wiring diagram, but it does have a correct restringing diagram. If you are interested, let me know. Dale Smith Jarcho wrote: > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > Mike: my Roundhouse column in the Sept/Oct '94 S Gaugian has a lot info on > getting the Seaboard Coaler to work. Tom Jarcho > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Start a new hobby. Meet a new friend. > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: The leading provider of free email list services > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Dale Smith Pacifica, California

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2192	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 3/27/1999
Subject: Fire "Proofing"

Hello Everyone, I read Glenn Ritter's question with a little amusement. I read David Dewey's reply with much more amusement. I have been in the fire protection business for almost 25 years and in fire safety and fire inspections for 20 of those 25 years. For my first few years in fire inspections I also was one of those zealous inspectors who wanted everything fire "proofed". But with time came wisdom that NOTHING can be fire proofed. Any sprays one buys, no matter how they are advertised, will not fire proof a material and you are right Glann, they do very little fire retardency for a very short time, ie. they would only last for one show. Tom Jarcho was moving more in the correct direction when he suggested contacting a theatrical company. They have some better (not perfect) products which you put in the washing machine and run your material through a cycle or soak in a large tub for several hours to several days, or it can be added to a dry clean cycle. But again, these only fire retard. NOTHING FIRE PROOFS. As a fire inspector, we take a more common sense approach that the skirting in display layouts are a very small fire load compared to all the plastic and other junk that is on the tables for sale and that is not fire retardent treated. Other more useful, common sense approaches we can take are to not allow smoking in the hall, anywhere, and sprinkling the entire building to minimize the death and destruction of a fire. There is no way we can prevent all fire. Finally, I know that many fire departments advocate spraying your Christmas tree with some fire "proofing", either home made or commercial. These are absolutely worthless. The best safety with a Christmas tree is to erect it fresh, keep it fresh, take it down as soon as it is no longer fresh, and make sure the lights etc on it are safe. My county allows no cut trees in commercial buildings, period. Yep, what I just said may contradict what your local fire marshal has told you. Remember, he has jurisdiction where you are and I have jurisdiction here. When you are here, you follow our fire code but when you are there you follow his/her fire code. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2193	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Keeping the crooks at Bay

Bill Porter wrote: We had a swap meet and there was a guy who had a Flyer 312. He was asking $125 for it. It was missing all valve gear and connecting rods on the left side, the wires and tube from the tender were completely broken, the paint was terrible and the roof of the cab was badly bent as from a long fall to a concrete surface. I guess all of the unscrupulous sellers are not on eBay. AND, you shook your head and walked away . . . as opposed to a blind auction, where the guy rates the engine as mint, photographs the good side and you don't know the truth until the UPS man leaves. This guy at the swap meet was not necessarily a crook. He might not be into trains at all or even be aware of condition. I had a housewife try to sell me the same engine, a 312, through an ad in the Pennysaver. On the phone it was "like brand new" and "ready-to-run". When I got there, it was missing side rods, flanges were chipped, the paint was terrible and it was actually rusted underneath like it had been laying in water. Here's the best part, she wanted $500.00! She wasn't a crook. She had no idea what it was worth and she just didn't want to be taken by a crook. And when she looked at that loco, she just didn't see what was wrong with it. Really. We are inside the hobby, we are privy to a world of information on trains. Explaining it to outsiders and getting them to part with their toys at reasonable prices is often a frustrating and fruitless task. Letting these people sell us their junk at their inflated prices is something we won't do anywhere, unless it's on E-Bay. Then all rules are off, all common sense gone by the wayside. It is difficult enough to buy through mail order from fellow collectors in your own organization where you actually have some disciplinary recourse. I've done that and gotten pieces that were all right, but I might have rejected them in a face-to-face deal for minor points. Re-shipping and all the telephone calls is just not worth it. Buying in the blind from total s trangers who only offer their say-so in exchange for your hard cash is plain foolishness. Maybe some of you have had some good luck here, but you are setting yourself up for future abuse that will disappoint you greatly. It's like speeding. You get away with it 99 times on the highway. Then, that one ticket whacks you for $200 and 3 points on your license, and the next ticket might be waiting for you the very next time you speed. You pays your money, you takes your chances. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2194	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: BIg Engines

Another opportunity for running big engines is on S-MOD layouts. Many of the RASG members do not have layouts, but instead have modules which we set up 4-6 times a year. Frequently we have 20 feet of straight. A long passenger or freight does not look out of place when run this way. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/marchweb.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2195	From: Bill Banta	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: Keeping the crooks at Bay

busy-boy wrote: > > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > I guess all of the unscrupulous > sellers are not on eBay. > Hey, let's not get down about these "unscrupulous sellers". These are the guys that paid far too much for the junk at the last show and are looking for another sucker like themselves to pawn it off on. Use your common sense before purchasing the model and move on to the next table. Don't get worked up over another persons folly. No one is forcing you to open your wallet......besides, you really didn't need that model anyhow.... b. banta

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2196	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: Keeping the crooks at Bay

Chris has some really good points, I have had some interesting experiences purchasing--and NOT purchasing AF. A few years ago I found a many days-old ad in the local freebie paper, "American Flyer Trains for sale" (actually Linda found it while I was out of town working and showed it to me when I got home--are you that lucky with your partner??). Well, I figured, "long gone" but called anyway. Drove a few miles out of town and found a wooden chest with about 4 sets, some '46 and one '60s, some accessories and lots of track--but it had been stored on a dirt floor for the last 30 years! The owner had a phone call from an out-of-town guy who had offered him, site unseen about full EX greenbergs for what was there. Oh well, I looked it over and offered him (in retrospect) about twice what it was worth (and probably 4x what any respectable dealer would have offered), a LOT less than what the phone guy offered! he did have the remains of a log loader with a good base, and since I had a good log loader with a bad base, I was able to talk him into letting that item go for $20 (hey, out here, bases are hard to come by). Went home, and about 2 hours later, got a call from the guy, "That other guy hasn't shown up, and were about to leave for the races (this guy had a dragster--one of those fancy rails), I'll take your offer!" I'll never know if the other guy showed up and walked away or what. Another time I answered another AF ad, this time everything was nicely stored, but common stuff, 302 freight set--but she did have a NIB Semaphore! Well what she wanted was too much (at the time), I showed her the 'Book" (this is all the book is really useful for--to show non-train people, and to keep yourself from over-spending from 'blurred drool-vision'), explained how it is like a 'blue book' for trains, and what one can honestly expect to get from resellers or personal collectors. Well, no luck, I suspect she still has the trains. OTOH, I have had people show me sets they want to sell, and (like right now) I have been 'cash poor' and frankly told them, "The trains are probably worth much more, but all I can spend right now is XXX". And they say, "That's fine!" Later I find through the grapevine that my low offer was more than any he'd gotten from the dealers around here (There is a SMALL group of train buyers in the northern Sacramento Valley, about 6 'serious' ones (I'm not in that loop!)--you soon learn who has 'scored' recently--and since I do repairs, I eventually see the trains quite often). The last 'deal' I got, from a, locally based, major L word mail-order dealer that I thought was such a great deal (and still think it wasn't bad, at least I have a 21004 now!) I found out was turned down by all the other AF guys around! I guess beauty is in the eyes of the beholder! Bottom line, I suppose, is "Are you having fun?" Oh, and maybe, "Is there still food to eat?" <BG> S-trains chat tonite!! If I don't see you there, the B-day party went too long, but I'll try to get back for a few lines.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2197	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Christmas trees

Nothing beats a real x-mas tree as part of a holiday layout. It will provide a delightful scent and clean the air of a good deal of cigarette smoke, repro Flyer smoke, etc, if iit is in good shape. But if neglected, a natural x-mas tree can become a first class fire bomb. Care must be taken when using a natural tree with electric trains. As Wayne said, the first thing is to get a fresh tree in good shape. A tree that is not fresh will have dry needles that fall off easily when a branch is rolled between your fingers. Some trees are sold in their natural shape, and some are hacked into an acceptable shape by chopping the branches. Avoid this latter type if possible -- it doesn't tend to last as long. A tree should have no slashes in the bark because these prevent the tree from 'drinking'. The bottom of the trunk should have an inch or two cut off before mounting to help the tree drink, just as you would trim the bottoms of cut flower stems. Use a solid tree stand, and keep the pan of water in which the tree sits almost full all the time. I like to soak the tree with a misting water spray about 4 times a day even if a small amount gets on my trains. Finally, I have found that placing the tree where it will get direct sunlight helps keep it alive, since the tree is still performing photosynthesis. Can Wayne or any other fire fighter on the list add anything to this? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2198	From: esquivel	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: e-bay etc.

hello, can we please talk about something other than e-bay. LET THE BUYER BEWARE!!!!! ask alot of specific questions and if you do not get the answers you are looking for, DO NOT BID. thanks, dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> To: <S-Trains@onelist.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 1999 5:48 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: e-bay etc. > From: Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> > > Gf3897@... wrote: > > > I'm aware of e-Bay's feedback mechanism, however what can really be > > said in the 40 letters or so that you are alotted? Hmmmmmmm I can see the > > flames coming............ > > It's hard to flame someone with a name like Gf3897 - it just rings of > integrity and authority. (insert emoticon here designating friendly dig > to fellow rail) > > Art Armstrong > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? > http://www.onelist.com > Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2199	From: Bill Banta	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: more on junk....

Here is an interesting twist, the "sap" you speak of is most likely the dealer trying to get his money back. He most likely paid far too much for the junk he is trying to dump. I will bet that most of these dealers will pay anything for a collection and find that the few good pieces will barely cover the cost. I am not a collector and surely do not understand collecting, nor want to, but for some reason the collector thinks he is going to make a load of cash when it is time for him to retire and sell off the collection. Put your money into some other form of investment that will payoff at a better rate. Collecting only pays off if you can find a "sap" to pay for it. (apparently there are still far more "saps" than those with sense) Most of the time a collection sells off for 50 cents on the dollar and then you are doing well(your widow will never get what money you put into it cause some dealer buddy already knows what you have and how much he will get for your collection). If you try to sell it yourself don't forget to deduct for show and advertising expenses...we all do that right? Too many of these sellers never get what they planned on getting for the good and the bad junk and in the end are lucky to break even. Collect the good pieces simply for the joy of having the train, display it so you can enjoy it, not in a box on the shelf hoping that someday you may make a buck. Nay, put your money in mutual funds or somesuch..... this should rile a few........:) b. banta

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2200	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: Keeping the crooks at Bay

> >This guy at the swap meet was not necessarily a crook. He might not be into >trains at all or even be aware of condition.... Hi Chris, Thanks for reading and commenting on my note. I did not include the fact that this guy is a regular dealer. He is at all of the shows and has a partner who is often there as well. I won't say he is a crook, he is just someone from whom no one should ever buy anything. Other participants at the show were also very concerned about his pricing. Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2201	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Hamm's Beer (and Truck) finale

Hi Everone.. Thanx for all the responses, some serious, some on the humorous side about the now-famous Hamm's Beer Truck. I was flattered that there were offers to buy the model but I've decided to keep it and use it on the layout. If, perchance, some "purist" sees it and comments that it is inappropriate, my response will be that some rich eccentric in Altoona, PA is nuts about Hamm's Beer and we now have a "Smokey and the Bandit" scenario on the layout as some trucker-type is bringing in a whole truckload of the stuff for the rich, eccentric. I guess I'll have to find a vintage Minnesota State Police Car tochase my Hamm's "Bandit" to complete the picture. PS ... Someone was right... It's a 14 wheeler and not an 18 wheeler. I guess I have to get my glasses checked once again. (S)incerely Joe Langellotti

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2202	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: Fireproofing skirts

In a message dated 3/28/99 3:50:22 AM, you wrote: <<I have just contacted a local fabric distributor and they are quoting $16.00 per yard. Since our module would take about 72 feet or 24 yards we are looking at a cost of $384.00. This is about the cost of the 4 corner modules. I have also learned that flame proof sprays are very temporary and not acceptable at convention centers or by some fire marshalls.>> Bristol Club experience--- (1) We were able to purchase fireproof fabric at a discount house VERY reasonable....though it's been so long I couldn't tell you what it was. (2) OR, buy regular fabric, and find a place that will fireproof it with some sort of a "wash" process. (3) In either case, take it to your local fire dept, and they may test it and give you a Certificate for it..........then it doesn't have to be tested at every location you set up! (4) My tablecovers that I use at shows are not flammable cloth........they are a fiberglass (?) material, although they LOOK like cloth. Fire-marshall doesn't even test it....just looks at it and walks on by. (5) Alternative for "problem" shows-----buy 8' plastic tablecloths and use them as skirts......they don't burn....they melt! And that's OK. They pass. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2203	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: WALP SIDES; FIRST NAT'L STORE BELLOWS FALLS COOP CREAMERY

Dear Perry, Try contacting Jeff Wilson of Hoquatt Hobbies. He was Gene distributor before he died. Jeff Wilson <jfwilson@...> BENPERRYJR@... wrote: > > From: BENPERRYJR@... > > Am looking for a pair (will settle for one) of Walp sides for the First > National/Brookside/Bellows Falls Coop dairy. If any one has any they would > like to dispose of or unbuilt or completed kit, please advise > Ben > Perry > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2204	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 3/28/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Dear Joe, Boy, you peaked my interest. I bet I havent looked at these drawings since 1991 when we reviewed the test shots. Anyway, the 12-1 was plan 3410 and the 10-1-2 was 2585D. At least that is what they were supposed to be> I hope this helps! sigma@... wrote: > > From: sigma@... > > Has anyone ever figured out the Pullman plan numbers for the heavyweight > cars produced several years ago by S-Helper Service? > Joe Pereira -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2205	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: ????????????

Bill Banta -- Please re-read the posts to see who said what. You read the first line, which was a re-post, got your undies all in a knot and never read my post which was the reply. I think that I pointed out that these sellers are not necessarily unscrupulous. Read the WHOLE post. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2206	From: michael prell	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Trading Cards

Has anyone ever attempted to create trading cards for train collectors? The idea came to me the other day when I came across my son's baseball card collection. Just wondering. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2207	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: one L of a crane

I just bought a 182. What a great crane. Unfortunately my repair books only provide operating instructions. Do any of you know of an exploded parts diagrams for this crane? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2208	From: michael prell	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: Trading Cards

Cool! Mostly, if not all big L stuff, huh. I'd bet that there'd be interest in seeing all categories and classes, not just big L's. (Pre & Post War, Accessories, Catalog Covers) What a great way to "own" stuff we could never afford. Maybe some day! Fun to think about it anyway. Thanks for your reply. have a good day! --- Cbtrainnut@... wrote: > the big L has put out 2 sets of trading cards that I > am aware of > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2209	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: Trading Cards

>From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > > >Has anyone ever attempted to create trading cards for train collectors? >The idea came to me the other day when I came across my son's baseball >card collection. Just wondering Michael, Yep! We sell them at the gift shop in Portola. Oh well, so much for that 'get rich quick' scheme!<G> S' David D. Now cards for Toy Trains, I haven't seen YET!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2210	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: undoing a KC conversion

I have a pair of aluminum 661's in great condition. Unfortunately they've been converted to KC. How do you recommend I convert them back to LC? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2211	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: NON FLAMMABLE?

On the advise of Wayne, I went to Wal-Mart and found a HOMETRENDS Vinyl Flannel Back Tablecloth, 52" x 52" Square in plain green for $2.50. I cut off a piece and held a butane lighter to it until it melted. No flame, little smoke, it just melted. Thus this should pass a local fire code inspection and meet our needs. Staying on NASG track, Glenn (nominee for NASG secretary)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2212	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: NON FLAMMABLE?

Glenn, Great! thanks for sharing that. Now when do we get to vote for NASG officers, I still haven't gotten my membership card (Watch, now it will come in today's snail-mail). S David D. PS, glad I could provide some un-intended humor. I've never tested the treated trees, just know we have to do it here. Saw the dead tree today, in the trimmings pile, looks like it's ready to be a flame thrower!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2213	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: undoing a KC conversion

In a message dated 3/29/99 1:49:47 PM, David_Horn@... writes: << I have a pair of aluminum 661's in great condition. Unfortunately they've been converted to KC. How do you recommend I convert them back to LC? Thanks. >> David, The a superior way to go about converting back to link is obtain a BRT-5-2 link coupler repair set and a Super riveter from Carl's Toy Trains, P. O. Box 443, Medford, MA 02155, (1-800-748-3846). This costs $25 + $59.00 total for the two tools. Expensive, but worth it. It will enable you to set over the flange on the link pin with a factory-like appearance. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2214	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: re Trading Cards

>'What a great way to "own" stuff we could never afford.' That is exactly why I bought the Greenberg Flyer Books Vol 1,2 & 3 I think only Vol 1 is in print right now, but thats the best one anyways. It has big pictures of just about everything Gilbert ever made in the Loco and rolling stock department. to see an example ...http://www.gate.net/~yorke/vol1.htm -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2215	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: Fireproofing

In a message dated 3/29/99 4:06:25 AM, you wrote: <<As a fire inspector, we take a more common sense approach that the skirting in display layouts are a very small fire load compared to all the plastic and other junk that is on the tables for sale and that is not fire retardent treated. Other more useful, common sense approaches we can take are to not allow smoking in the hall, anywhere, and sprinkling the entire building to minimize the death and destruction of a fire. There is no way we can prevent all fire. >> Wayne raises an interesting point.........We do a huge annual show in West Springfield, Mass each year.........biggest show in New England; acres of tables; and 20,000+ paid attendees. At any rate, the local fire marshall there checks ALL table covers, puts a match to them if necessary (I know....he did it to us!), and makes you remove them if he doesn't "pass" them (I know....he did it to us....once!) As a result, we now have tablecovers as I described in a previous posting. Meanwhile, twice per year, we do a Greenberg Show near Boston which is held at the Shriner's Hall.......the Shriner's of course are well known for the Burn Centers for free medical treatment for kids.............NOBODY ever checks tablecovers, or anything else, there!!! Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2216	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: Fireproofing

In a message dated 3/29/99 4:06:25 AM, you wrote: <<We were able to purchase fireproof fabric at a discount house VERY reasonable....though it's been so long I couldn't tell you what it was. (2) OR, buy regular fabric, and find a place that will fireproof it with some sort of a "wash" process.>> I'll correct my own post before Wayne does!!! Yes, I realize "fireproofing" is not correct. What the fire marshall tests when he puts the match to a tablecover, as I previously described, is that it singes, rather than flames. That's OK! Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2217	From: Boul, Lawrence	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Semaphore Signals

Hi All A brief product announcement that may be of interest to some. NZFinescale has just released an S kit for McKenzie and Holland pattern 'somersault' semaphores. These are etched and cast brass with a styrene post. Extremely fine detail. Designed for 'S'. These signals were very common in New Zealand, parts of Australia (I believe) and also on some UK railways. I suspect they were widespread in former British colonies, but I'm unsure if they were used in the States. Please email if you are interested, and I will forward more details rather than take up bandwidth here. I'd also like to hear of any other areas where McK&H signals were used. Cheers Lawrence Boul - NZFinescale (boul@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2218	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: 30's Ford PU

The Racing Champions early '30's Ford pickup is a nice model, and close to 1:64th scale, but until now, I have only found it painted in Nascar racing colors, and whitewall tires. I just found it at Target in paint that is a little easier to convert back to stock, and with wheels/tires that look a bit closer to stock. It is the "Beach Boys Surfin' Safari" version. Yes, Target apparently has not dropped Racing Champions, and this one was on another of Target's unadvertised sales. This time $3. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/marchweb.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2219	From: michael prell	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: RIDING THE RAILS

IT IS A PLEASURE TO WATCH TONIGHT'S AMERICAN EXPERIENCE ON PUBLIC BROADCASTING. THOSE OF US WHO COLLECT THE "TOYS" THAT WE LOVE, HAVE A CHANCE TO SEE LIFE AS IT WAS WHEN STEAM DID IN DEED RULE. JUST A PLUG TO SUPPORT PBS. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2220	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: link couplers

While RB's suggestion is a superior way to go about replacing LC, it isn't necessary to go to that expense. You can get quite nice results with a link coupler setting tool, which Leventon and Doug Peck sell for about $7, as I recall. (Are you there, Doug?) You also need a hammer and a surface to serve as an anvil, such as a vise. The tool goes over the link pin and when hammered peens down the appropriate part of the pin. Remove the coupler weight first. I always new repro link pins -- they seem to work better. The brakeman riveting tool is more appropriate for Lionel, in which there are a lot of small rivets in hard to reach places. The interesting part of replacing couplers on aluminum 660 cars is that these cars were equipped with small wire springs which held the couplers down. I described how to add these springs to an existing coupler in the Jan'Feb '93 Roundhouse. This method works OK, but it might be better to make the springs (out of 0.010" s.s. guitar string) and add them when installing couplers. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2221	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Kelvin's Caboose & Conrail (Att: MPSM)

I too was very impressed by the Grand Trunk caboose model. It's beautiful work. On the other hand, if any of us modern guys would like to win the World's Ugliest Kitbash award, take a look at what PC & Conrail did to these cabooses on the Conrail Cabins & Cabooses Page: www.geocities.com/~wolfgangs/index.htm Select class N-5K. I'm half-tempted to do this, but it's one of those situations where you'd better have a photo handy, to shove in front of the people who are laughing in your face. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2222	From: Brian Johns	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Brittle plastic and expensive signals

Hello all! My beloved 283 fell apart on me the other day while it was chugging down the track! The two screws just in front of the drive wheels have nothing left to screw into. The plastic holes have cracked and crumbled, leaving nothing left for the screws to screw into. I'd imagine the only "real" repair would be a new or replacement plastic shell, but I doubt I'll ever find one - especially one with "283" already on it. Any ideas? At a recent train show I found a number of plastic Atlantic shells that looked to be in good cosmetic condition -- until I saw they all had broken or missing screw mounting posts as well. This seems to be a common problem. Is there a common solution, other than hot glue?? (Which seems to be working quite well for the time being!) Also, I'd like to see an instruction sheet for a 26671 Track Trip. Anyone got a scanner? Finally, I just *can't* part with $95 or more for a genuine probably-scratched-and-bent AF semaphore or highway flasher on eBay. Are there any NEW items like this...say from MTH or Lionel that wouldn't look *too* out of place on an AF layout?? I've just recently discovered the fun of track trips and running two trains on a single track and I wanna PLAY, not INVEST! <g> Many thanks! -=[ Brian ]=-

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2223	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: undoing a KC conversion

David, First take the split rivets out that are holding the conversion couplers and remove the couplers. Then get some link couplers and pins and a pin setting tool from one of the AF repro parts dealers. You put the link on the pin, the pin through the hole in the truck/coupler bracket. Place the setting tool on the pin, and a few taps of a hammer sets the pin with link in place on the truck. Just like A.C. did it. Regards, Roger Delthony David_Horn@... wrote: > From: David_Horn@... > > I have a pair of aluminum 661's in great condition. Unfortunately they've > been converted to KC. How do you recommend I convert them back to LC? > Thanks. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ideas on how we can improve ONElist? > http://www.onelist.com > Check out the Suggestion Box feature on our new web site > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2224	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: Re: Brittle plastic and expensive signals

Brian, Well, I have repaired a number of shells with "J B Weld", an epoxy material. You have to clean the plastic well to get it to adhere. I make a 'mold' out of masking tape, about the shape I want the repair to be, and ladle in the 'weld' with a toothpick Afterwards, I trim with a Dremel tool, drill and use the heated screw method to put new screws in. I am very careful with them too! I have some that have been together for a decade now. You do have to wait for the stuff to cure well, a few days at least! If it starts to give, I've doctored it with CA glue. The road crossings I find a puzzlement, not that many parts there, fairly simple ones too, someone ought to be repro'ing them! I'd like to find some semaphores reasonably too, although the layout is years away! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2225	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Digest Number 184

"Brian Johns" <bljohns@...> says, >Subject: Brittle plastic and expensive signals > >Hello all! > >My beloved 283 fell apart on me the other day while it was chugging down the >track! The two screws just in front of the drive wheels have nothing left to >screw into. The plastic holes have cracked and crumbled, leaving nothing >left for the screws to screw into. Brian, if you have a hot glue gun, build up the area, dremel a new hole, warm the scew to screw ii in, lightly. Do not overtighten the screws. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2226	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Body mounting screw post repair

The body posts in plastic steamer boilers can be repaired even if missing in the following manner: Find an appropriate brass tube that has an inside diameter equal to the outside diameter of the post. Cut to length. Slit the side to provide an opening for the post to body connection. Insert a wooden dowel to fill in the missing part of the post. Set with Zap-a-Gap. Drill a new hole for the screw. Paint black to match the loco. Lubricate ("soap") the screw before inserting. This is a quick operation with a Dremel tool cut-off wheel. Wear safety goggles and a filter mask! This will also work for car bodies such as the Roadside "Branford" Diner that I just repaired using 1/4" sleeve. It is stronger than the original brittle plastic. By the way - The Gilbert manual lists the wrong screw for the body mounting. It is a tapping screw, not a machine screw as was used in the metal boilers. I wrote several pages on repairs such as this if anyone is interested. I also made notes where later repair guides have missed wiring variations. (For example, Gilbert did not just add a fifth wire in the steamers, they shuffled the pins. There is a third, in-between version of Sam the Semaphore man having a single button but including the internal "lockout eliminator" resistor.) On another subject, while some plastics may not "burn" i.e. flame, they give off poisonous gases when smoldering. The fire hazard is really a smoke hazard and why they are not allowed in large public buildings.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2227	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Brian's Questions

I don't like repairing broken screw holes in plastic loco bodies with epoxy because it just doesn't stand up to the stresses of operating and packing and unpacking. The best solution I have come up with so far is to cut away the screw hole post to more than the length of the screw and replace it with a piece of 1/4" square cross section evergreen styrene with a hole previously drilled in it with a pin vise. This is glued in place with liquid plastic cement. Nick Colleran's solution also sounds good. You can easily illuminate a Plasticville signal bridge which is much cheaper than an ebay Flyer semaphore, although also oversize. Mine is in storage right now so I can't give you exact measurements. The idea is to drill out the light holes and insert short pieces of brass tubing (I think the correct diameter is 3/16"). Cap these on one end by hammering the tubing into a piece of sheet stryene. Since you need a small notch to let the wires out the back, cut such a slit in the plastic with a razor saw first. Then insert them into the signal faces. I used Radio Shack12v. bulbs which come in a pack of 3 -- one each red yellow and green. CAn't find my R.S. catalog right now -- darn it's hard to cook and write at the same time. Now, each signal face has 4 lenses. I used 2 red bulbs for the stop indicator and green over yellow for the go. By wiring each of these pairs in series they were able to handle 19v. easily. There are many ways to wire this sucker, depending on if you want it to stop trains. The simplest works with one#697 track trip for each of the two signals on the bridge. Have a stopping segment of three track sections or so with the base post rail insulated, as with the semaphore. Have the track trip set up so that it feeds base post to the stop lights unless a train is on it, in which case it should feed power to the stop section and the green & yellow bulbs. If this doesn't work, or with a 671 track trip, use the trip to feed a D.C. current to a relay. Relay Contacts: c to base post, nc to red lights, no to green/yellow lights and stop section insulated rail. One lead from each pair of bulbs is connected to the fixed voltage post. If this description isn't clear I will answer any questions on it. Now, last year I was messing around with a block control system made by a New Jersey train store for Lionel. They still have one but have changed the design, unfortunately. It is based on the block systems in the paperback book "Model Railroading" that Lionel and Bantam put out in the '50's. I was able to adapt it to 2 rail track after much thought. The amazing thing about this system is that it divides a loop into THREE sections, and no train can enter an occupied block. I never once had a rear end collision with it. Collisions are common with Flyer semaphores and the signal bridge too. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2228	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: RIDING THE RAILS

I agree. The American Experience program was one of the best railroad oriented programs I've seen. In fact, as i watched, I started thinking about modelling a hobo jungle in a corner of my layout. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-. -------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2229	From: Dave Silva	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: AF transformer--40 watt

HELP I have a 40 watt transformer with the middle electrical stud broken off. There are no screws to get into the thing. How do I get inside? And can I just solder the stud back on?--Dave Silva

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2230	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: FW: List Server Error

Hi Paul: I was just wondering why this message below got bounced back as an error. Can you help? Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-. ------- -----Original Message----- From: toytrains-errors@... [mailto:toytrains-errors@...] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 1999 10:40 AM To: Alex Mendelsohn Subject: List Server Error I'm sorry, this list requires that you be a subscribed user to execute this command or post to the list. :From owner-toytrains Tue Mar 30 07:39:58 1999 :Received: from mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.41]) by lists1.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.ls) with ESMTP id HAA19116 for <toytrains@...>; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 07:38:01 -0800 (PST) :Received: from 850176761 ([12.79.179.115]) by mtiwmhc06.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07 118 124) with SMTP id <19990330153729.CAQZ20882@850176761>; Tue, 30 Mar 1999 15:37:29 +0000 :Reply-To: <alex.ai2q@...> :From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alex.ai2q@...> :To: "michael prell" <mlprell@...>, "toy trains" <toytrains@...>, "Paul York" <S-Trains@onelist.com> :Subject: RE: [S-Trains] RIDING THE RAILS :Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 10:29:27 -0500 :Message-ID: <000201be7ac2$1902a380$73b34f0c@850176761> :MIME-Version: 1.0 :Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" :Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit :X-Priority: 3 (Normal) :X-MSMail-Priority: Normal :X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 :Importance: Normal :X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 :In-Reply-To: <19990330021756.5881.rocketmail@...> : :I agree. The American Experience program was one of the best railroad :oriented programs I've seen. In fact, as i watched, I started thinking about :modelling a hobo jungle in a corner of my layout. : :Regards, : :Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-. : :------- :

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2231	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: JB Weld

There are a 3 or 4 kinds of JB Weld. Which one works best with plastic? I also have to repair mounting holes. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2232	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Brittle plastic

One method I have had success with is to use the plastic wall anchors used to fasten to plaster and sheetrock. I have used it on several engines (354, 303, etc) where the mounting holes were completely blown out. Find the right size for the screw, cut to needed length, and epoxy in place. Gregg Mummert gmummert@... S Gauge - the only way to Fly(er)! Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2233	From: Neil Trump	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: 583 magnetic coil

Hi All, I'm in the process of restoring a 583 magnetic crane that someone decided to strip down to basic parts. Problem is that they got over zealous and unwound the magnetic coil as well. What I need to know is what gauge wire do I need to replace it with, how many turns it had or if data for number of turns is not available, what is the resistance of a good one? The alternative is to find a complete good on, if any one has a junker part lying around that they wish to sell of course. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2234	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: LC replacment.2

In a message dated 3/30/99 4:09:44 AM, you wrote: <<While RB's suggestion is a superior way to go about replacing LC, it isn't necessary to go to that expense. You can get quite nice results with a link coupler setting tool, which Leventon and Doug Peck sell for about $7, as I recall. (Are you there, Doug?) You also need a hammer and a surface to serve as an anvil, such as a vise. >> Yep...I'm still here........thanks for the "plug"! We have the $7.50 tool also, but it is short and more awkward to use. That's why I prefer to recommend the $9.95 tool......it is about twice as long, and heftier. We ALSO carry the Brakeman's Riveter tools for S.........and I have to disagree that it is more suited for O.......... I personally use the BSR CONSTANTLY! I think it is exceptionally good, IF you do enough riveting and LC replacement to justify its cost. I own a Hobby Horse press for riveting and LC replacement, and I RARELY use it..... I use the BSR instead!!!! If you do a lot of these repairs, the BSR is very much worth the $58 + $25 cost. (BTW, with a third tip, it will also do the hollow brass truck eyelets! ) Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2235	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: repairs, and Xng Signal

In a message dated 3/30/99 4:09:44 AM, you wrote: <<broken or missing screw mounting posts as well. This seems to be a common problem. Is there a common solution, other than hot glue?? (Which seems to be working quite well for the time being!) Also, I'd like to see an instruction sheet for a 26671 Track Trip. Anyone got a scanner? Finally, I just *can't* part with $95 or more for a genuine probably-scratched-and-bent AF semaphore or highway flasher on eBay. Are there any NEW items like this...say from MTH or Lionel that wouldn't look *too* out of place on an AF layout?? >> (1) With a Dremel cutoff wheel, you can cut out about 3/8" of the old, broken mounting-post. Then Cut a 3/8" piece off a length of Plastruct #608 tubing . Sand one side of it flat so it will fit against the inside of the shell, and epoxy it in place. Let it set overnight, paint them black, and you have new screwposts! (2) How about a decent (not tiptop) AF semaphore for $60????? We just took one in last night! (no trips, though). (3) MTH has just released an "Operating RR Crossing Signal", #30-11006. ($50 list; $44.95, our price.) It features an over-the-track platform and lights, as well as a highway RR Xng signal on the post......it is quite nice, and is about 1:60 scale !!!! We have sold several of these already for S use, with no complaints to date. (MTH also just released a block-signal which is also about 1:60. Not quite as popular, but we've sold some of those to S gaugers too.) MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2236	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: single sheath boxcar

Hi Kelvin - I my last note about your caboose in S/Sn3 guide - I forgot to ask about the boxcar that shows in the picture page 26. It is not like the Showcase Line single-sheath that I have. It looks like a kit - or perhaps a scratch built. Could you give us all a little more info? I know the Drake Co. has one of these coming in resin but I don't know when. Art

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2237	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: LC replacement

<<Subject: undoing a KC conversion I have a pair of aluminum 661's in great condition. Unfortunately they've been converted to KC. How do you recommend I convert them back to LC? Thanks.>> One pair of replacement LC and pins = $4.60 (black wts), or $5.10 (brass wts). BUT you need a tool to install them. We sell the tool for $9.95, or we "rent" it for $12, with $10 refunded to your c/c upon return. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2238	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: LC replacment.2

The Brakeman's riveter is a wondful tool, but I'm afraid my CHEAP! side comes into play, and I make my own setting tools on my lathe. Now if I didn't already have the lathe.......... A good job can be done with the $10 tool, and if you don't do some of these every week or so, you might want to go that way too. The 'Riveter" does even have a tip for coupler knuckle pins too. Another option, if you belong to a club, is to pool your resources and get a 'club tool'! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2239	From: Dennis Back	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: LC rep.2/CLUB TOOL

--- David Dewey <djdewey@...> wrote: >pool your resources and get a 'club > tool'! The "club tool" is also useful when you need to convince your spouse that you REALLY NEED that really expensive S-train. As a little history...the cavemen originated the club tool. <bg> Dennis, Miami, Fl. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2240	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Trading cards

I sent the thread about train collector trading cards to a friend of mine who publishes trading cards. Who knows,maybe something will come of it. Vic Bereskin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2241	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: For Sale

FOR SALE: 1 Mikes Train House O scale Fairbanks Morse H10-44 (2-rail) C&NW new only run on test track a couple of times. $300.00 1 Westbrook Michigan Central X29 (NYC) boxcar 40' $20.00 Unbuil kit. no trucks or couplers 1 Atlas 40' box car decorated for Grand Trunk Maple leaf scheme has stock 3 rail Atlas trucks $20.00 1 coal load for Lionel 4 bay hopper car new $5.00 3 Hawk Plastic Models - SF cable car kits 1/4inch scale $ 15.00 each 1 AMT 48 Ford Coupe. 1/43 scale plastic kit $ 5.00 If interested contact me off list. Phil Randall ttscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2242	From: Allen Evans	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: For Sale

Mr Randall -- Sir, Please Refrain! If your e-mail is not about S Scale, and not about products that are available from a known registered reseller, well, I would think that your announcement may not belong here. But by all means, if you would like to join our happy group as an S-Scale enthusiast, Please Remain, as we are an otherwise happy lot, and care much about the propigation of our passion. Regrads, Allen Evans Covington, Lousisiana

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2243	From: Jarcho	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: for sale

Amen ! And that goes double for stump speeches by worn out right wing corporation spokespersons as well. TJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2244	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 3/29/1999
Subject: one question and one trick

Hi all you pros, Question I unfortunately began my layout with a crossing that two lines share. Now it's too late to change it. It's really frustrating to keep an eye on it when I have four trains running at once. Is there a way to automatically have one train stop while the other uses the crossing? I have a semaphore, but I'm not sure how to wire it up to do this job. Please make the advice simple. I'm just a beginner (7 years) and not too electronically inclined. Trick As garage sales start up again, keep your eyes open for plastic Christmas trees. I bought a 6 footer for $2 last summer. I cut each plastic twig to tree height and trimmed them to the right shape. I netted over a hundred good looking evergreens for two bucks. Now if I can just find that 21004 switcher at one : ) Jacques

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2245	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Track crossing

Jacques, I just received a catalog and a wiring book from Dallee Electronics (www.dallee.com) who offer a variety of electronic controls and sound systems for trains. In the wiring book they show a control circuit for a diamond crossing which appears to prevent trains approaching the intersection from both tracks from colliding. Check with them at their website to get a catalog and wiring book. Regards, Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2246	From: Neil Trump	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: 583 magnetic coil

Thanks John, My problem is that I live in England, so it's not that easy to post things backwards a forwards. I have also re-wound a number of field/armature coils in the past, so I'm happy to do this crane coil, just need the data. Thanks Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2247	From: David Dewey	Date: 3/30/1999
Subject: Re: one question and one trick

Jacques, You say you have a "No Miss, but Hit" set?? Must have been watching The Adamms Family too much!<G> Neat trick on the trees, Thanks for posting it! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2248	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Seaboard Coaler

Just realized that my newly acquired #752 Seaboard Coaler is missing the trough which drops the coal into the near by car. Most pictures do not show this piece, and since I have not seen one in person I do not know how to fabricate the missing piece. Does anyone have a junker with one they would sell, or draw out the demensions, etc.? Thanks! Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2249	From: Bill Porter	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Track crossing

Just a short amplification. I have seen this device work and it is pretty good. Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Roger Delthony <delthony@...> To: Ollivier Jacques <jolliv@...> Cc: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Wednesday, March 31, 1999 1:07 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Track crossing >From: Roger Delthony <delthony@...> > >Jacques, > >I just received a catalog and a wiring book from Dallee Electronics >(www.dallee.com) who offer a variety of electronic controls and sound >systems for trains. In the wiring book they show a control circuit for >a diamond crossing which appears to prevent trains approaching the >intersection from both tracks from colliding. Check with them at their >website to get a catalog and wiring book. > >Regards, Roger Delthony >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2250	From: Dave Silva	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Model 1 1/2 45 watt transformer

The center electrical post is broken off. Can I just solder it back on or do I have to get inside?--Dave Silva

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2251	From: busy-boy	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Trading Cards

Dear fellow Trainiacs: The recent post about trading cards got me looking through the mixed stack of cards saved from my childhood. No, my mother DID NOT throw them out! In there with the Davy Crockett cards, the Three Stooges cards, the sets of "Outer Space" and "Sports Car" cards and the "Friend or Foe" airplane cards, I found three of the T.C.G. train cards. #16 is of a completely enclosed cab Canadian Pacific 4-4-4 in yellow and black partial streamlining. I've climbed all over a sister engine at the Canadian Rail Museum outside Montreal. This wheel type is a typical Canadian design, but for the life of me, I can't remember what it is called. Help me out here. #40 is of an 1897 4-4-0 experimental engine with the drivers running on smaller wheels which ran on yet another, smaller wheel set. The purpose, presumably, was to gain more speed by gearing up. It was called "Holman's Absurdity" in the colorful mocking manner of the Gay Nineties. (Funny when you think about it, but this decade will probably be remembered as the "Gay Nineties" too!) I have never seen any reference to this engine in any rail books over these many years, but referring to the card now, I see that the engine was built by Baldwin and run in New Jersey. Anybody know anything or have any look-up references? #64 is of a single dome tank car lettered for the Old Hickory (Tennessee) Chemical Company (S.H.P.X.). It is a 10,000 gallon full frame tanker of the type modeled by A.C. Gilbert. Both it and the Canadian steamer on #16 are referred to as "modern" equipment. No dates are on the cards, even by the copyright circle. The cards were quite attractive, with a full color, glossy photo/illustration on the front, and on the back, a detailed description of the front picture and an unrelated picture quiz with answer; i.e.: "Q.- What was the first railroad in the U.S.A.? A.- A horse and incline plane railroad with wooden track built in Boston, Mass. in 1795." And I thought it was the B&O! The part I liked about them as a kid, was the strip of track along the bottom of the back side. Each card had two cars or a locomotive on the track, and you could put the cards together to make up trains. I wish I had more of these, but since I don't, I think I'll sell 'em on E-bay for a hundred bucks apiece. What do you think? Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2252	From: Rodney.Booth@xxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: trading cards

Chris you might get up to two hundred bucks on eBay!!!!!!!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2253	From: John Foley	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Central Hobby Supply

>Delivered-To: FOLEY164@... >Reply-To: "Terry Harrison" <terryharr@...> >From: "Terry Harrison" <terryharr@...> >To: "Craig S. O'Connell" <crocon@...> >Cc: "Wayne Hills" <AC4400W@...>, > "Richard & Frances Wholf" <rwholfkc@...>, > "Michael A. Scivoletti" <cbat1244@...>, > "John Foley" <FOLEY164@...>, "Don Thompson" <thompsda@...>, > "David Held" <davido@...>, > "Dennis Conway" <Dennis7450@...> >Subject: RE: Central Hobby Supply >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:42:43 -0500 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 > > Men, &O M-53 wagon top boxcar in HO only. &O M-53 in S. Tell >everyone you know in S about this. Let us drop them letters, faxes or >phone calls giving them our support for S cars. I would especially love to >see that Beano car in S at WELL below brass prices. I don't know these >people from Adam but I am willing to let them know we support their >efforts. Here is their address and phone: > Central Hobby Supply > Syracuse, NY 13206 > >315 437-3281 This is one way to get some more quality S scale cars in >our market. Who knows what else we may be able to get these people to >make. Terry Harrison

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2254	From: BENPERRYJR@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Trading Cards

Chris; The 4-4-4 loco was known as the JUBILEE Class and was used by the CPR in light short haul psgr service. There was 2 types, streamline & semi streamlined. If my memory is correct the one on the card is the streamlined version. Ben Perry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2255	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Pullman plans

Thanks to those who have given me Pullman plan numbers for the SHS 12-1 and 10-1-2, but I'm still hoping for the rest, plus the American Models heavyweights. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2256	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: ebay

Very interesting article in the financial section of the newspaper yesterday (I always read that part of the paper because that's where the REAL crimes are!) Yesterday, Amazon.com, the internet bookseller, opened an auction service to compete with ebay. They offer several things that they think are improvements; the article listed three: an anti-fraud guarantee:for any purchase less than$250, the company will reimburse the buyer does not deliver the goods AS ADVERTIZED (boy do they have a surprise coming when they mess with toy trains!). Also, they will offer links between the books and auctioned goods; the search engine when looking for books on a certin topic will also offer auction goods on that topic. Finally they will offer one click buying. The article also mentions several other interesting things about ebay. Ebay itself has a market value of nearly $20 billion. Its stock price fell over $6 a share following the Amazon.com announcement. Ebay claims that only 3 out of 10,000 transactions on its site are fraudulent. Ebay is in the process of a $1 billion stock offering. My speculation: Amazon.com MAY have timed it's announcement to affect ebay's stock offering because down the line they are looking at a takeover. This is just a guess. Thought some of you guys would like to know this stuff. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2257	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: trading cards

Lionel produced trading cards of its locomotives in the late '50's. Six of them are pictured on p. 230 of the 1981 edition of All Aboard, by Ron Hollander. TJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2258	From: kelvin white	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: single sheath boxcar

In message <37016300.390C@...>, Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> writes >From: Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> > >Hi Kelvin - > >I my last note about your caboose in S/Sn3 guide - I forgot to ask about >the boxcar that shows in the picture page 26. It is not like the >Showcase Line single-sheath that I have. It looks like a kit - or >perhaps a scratch built. Its an old kinsman kit fo a & bay 'Fowler' style single sheath boxcar - It came to me made up - I just 'slapped' some paint and the appropiate CDS decals on it. If you are into the steam early diesel era of modelling buy any Kinsman kit you come across, whilst not up to the SHS standards they do help pad out a train with a bit of variety. Best regards PS are tou going to the NASG convention? -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2259	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: ebay

Jarcho wrote: > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > Very interesting article in the financial section of the newspaper > yesterday (I always read that part of the paper because that's where the > REAL crimes are!) Yesterday, Amazon.com, the internet bookseller, opened > an auction service to compete with ebay. They offer several things that > they think are improvements; the article listed three: an anti-fraud > guarantee:for any purchase less than$250, the company will reimburse the > buyer does not deliver the goods AS ADVERTIZED (boy do they have a surprise > coming when they mess with toy trains!). Also, they will offer links > between the books and auctioned goods; the search engine when looking for > books on a certin topic will also offer auction goods on that topic. > Finally they will offer one click buying. > > The article also mentions several other interesting things about ebay. > Ebay itself has a market value of nearly $20 billion. Its stock price fell > over $6 a share following the Amazon.com announcement. Ebay claims that > only 3 out of 10,000 transactions on its site are fraudulent. Ebay is in > the process of a $1 billion stock offering. > > My speculation: Amazon.com MAY have timed it's announcement to affect > ebay's stock offering because down the line they are looking at a takeover. > This is just a guess. > > Thought some of you guys would like to know this stuff. Tom Jarcho > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > If you like orange and blue, then you will love our new web site! > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: Fostering connections and information exchange > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm I have to agree with Tom, "boy do they have a surprise coming"..I have been burnt twice so far and from people with great feedback..guess there are just some people out there that can't be honest, even with low cost..and there hard to find on EBAY, items. I never had problems acquiring things when I go to shows so maybe it's about time I delete EBAY from my bookmarks. Even after filing fraud charges there is no recovering..anyone have any other suggestions? Both sellers are no longer on EBAY and their e-mail addresses are coming back un deliverable..Thanks for letting me blow off a little steam... By the way, for you fellow Pennsylvanian's, I just got my new license plate commerating the Steam Engine.."Preserving Our Heritage" and love it..great plate I will be proud to have on my car.. Keep the "Flyer" running...Ben

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2260	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Hobos

<<In fact, as i watched, I started thinking about modelling a hobo jungle in a corner of my layout.>> Well now.........we have a selectin of S-scale hobos for just that purpose!!!! Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2261	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Brakemans Riveter

<<The 'Riveter" does even have a tip for coupler knuckle pins too. >> Correct.....EXCEPT this tip goes on the "junior" Riveter....not on the Super- Riveter. There are two different tools. The jr version packs less punch, and sets the KC pin, as well as all those little sheet-metal rivets that Gilbert used on accessories, etc. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2262	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Some news

I made up a couple of new pages. 1) http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/scrapbook/scrapbook1.htm Pictures I got from E-bay. If you see any interesting pictures out there please send them to me. 2) http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/wire.htm My version of block control. News Flash: I am quiting my job with Pratt & Whitney after 23 years, they are moving our operations to East Hartford Ct. (Too Cold for me). I got a new job working for South Florida Water Management District, the flood control guys. They have lots of computers. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2263	From: Scott Brown	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 185

Hi. my name is Scott. I recently joined your list. This has been a very helpfull list. I look forward to reading the posts every day. My friend recently converted me to AF/S gauge from N scale and I am having a ball. I have a SF PA A-B-A (470-71-73) that I repainted UP as well as a set of passenger cars to match. I have a 302, a 293, a Franklin engine and 2 coaches, several freight cars and a AM GP-9. Believe it or not, my wife has actually encouraged my addiction. She helped me build the N scale layout we have inside a coffee table I built. My 3 kids love trains too. At 42 years of age I feel like a kid again. I'm glad there are veteran S gaugers here that I can learn from. Someone on this list suggested using TV tuner cleaner to clean the engines. I also read that in the Greenberg AF repair guide. The stuff I bought had mineral oil in it and left an oily mess. Is there a better cleaner to clean the diesel engines with ? Thanks Scott Brown sbrown@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2264	From: John Foley	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Central Hobby Supply

>Delivered-To: FOLEY164@... >Reply-To: "Terry Harrison" <terryharr@...> >From: "Terry Harrison" <terryharr@...> >To: "Craig S. O'Connell" <crocon@...> >Cc: "Wayne Hills" <AC4400W@...>, > "Richard & Frances Wholf" <rwholfkc@...>, > "Michael A. Scivoletti" <cbat1244@...>, > "John Foley" <FOLEY164@...>, "Don Thompson" <thompsda@...>, > "David Held" <davido@...>, > "Dennis Conway" <Dennis7450@...> >Subject: RE: Central Hobby Supply >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:42:43 -0500 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 > > Men, &O M-53 wagon top boxcar in HO only. &O M-53 in S. Tell >everyone you know in S about this. Let us drop them letters, faxes or >phone calls giving them our support for S cars. I would especially love to >see that Beano car in S at WELL below brass prices. I don't know these >people from Adam but I am willing to let them know we support their >efforts. Here is their address and phone: > Central Hobby Supply > Syracuse, NY 13206 > >315 437-3281 This is one way to get some more quality S scale cars in >our market. Who knows what else we may be able to get these people to >make. Terry Harrison

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2265	From: Brian Johns	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Brittle Plastic answers!!

Thanks everyone for ALL the GREAT techniques for repairing my 283! -=[ Brian ]=-

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2266	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 185

I'll measure one this weekend and post the DC resistance and wire gauge if I can figure it out. However, I have found the part through sources for Erector set parts. I think the Electromatic crane magnet was included with the 8 1/2 and larger sets. Try Pandy's Collectibles (on the net). Good luck! --- Nick Colleran >Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 19:50:44 -0800 > From: "Neil Trump" <neil_trump@...> >Subject: 583 magnetic coil > >Hi All, > >I'm in the process of restoring a 583 magnetic crane that someone decided to >strip down to basic parts. Problem is that they got over zealous and unwound >the magnetic coil as well. What I need to know is what gauge wire do I need >to replace it with, how many turns it had or if data for number of turns is >not available, what is the resistance of a good one? The alternative is to >find a complete good on, if any one has a junker part lying around that they >wish to sell of course. > >Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2267	From: Brian Johns	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Plasticville

Does anyone out there know of a dealer or someone who sells commonly-missing Plasticville pieces? I'm in need of a few of the usually-missing parts -- the cross for the top of a church, whatever goes on top of the cupola on the red school house, a few chimneys here and there...you know, the kind of stuff that's always missing from the "under-the-table" bargain boxes of miscellaneous junk at train shows! (The twelve buildings I have collected cost me less than $1 each this way!) TIP: SoftScrub with bleach and an old toothbrush can make a dirty, dusty Plasticville piece shine like new! Just go easy around the painted letters! The bleach really seems to brighten the white plastics. WINDOW TIP: I was missing the two printed window displays for my little P'ville supermarket, and came up with a "two-cent" method of getting new ones! I went to eBay and searched for "supermarket" and then picked the best picture of the several I found. I copied each window, sized and enlarged it in Photoshop and then printed it on my color inkjet printer to a sheet of index-weight paper. Sure, they don't stand up to really close inspection, but from a normal viewing distance the windows look SUPER! Sure looks a lot better now than when it looked like a drive-thru...<grin> -=[ Brian ]=-

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2268	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: contact cleaners

Contact cleaners were reformulated a few years ago because the chloroflurocarbons that worked so well in them were blamed for depleting the ozone layer. This was done by law and through international treaties. The contact cleaners on the market now are flammable, much greasier, and much less effective. They do contain mineral oil. The new cleaners cannot be shot into a working motor for example. They can be used on reverse units sparingly if the excess is blown off by compressed air afterwards. They are not good for much else as far as toy trains go. They certainly should not be used to clean the outside of rolling stock. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2269	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Motor Cleaners

Scott Brown wrote: > Someone on this list suggested using TV tuner cleaner to clean the > engines. > I also read that in the Greenberg AF repair guide. The stuff I > bought had mineral oil in it and left an oily mess. Is there a > better cleaner to clean the diesel engines with ? Thanks We had a bit of a discussion on this group a few months ago concerning these cleaners and their health risks, but I noted at that time that I had found an electric motor cleaner at my local Ace hardware in a 1 lb. 3 oz. can called "Lectra-Motive". It is manufactured by CRC industries and cost about $5. It contains tetrachloroethelyne and no oils whatsoever. Several on the group who seemed to be knowledgeable about industrial safety indicated it was not as hazardous as carbon tetrachloride, which has been banned. It works great at cleaning motors and is non-flammable. It is aimed at the the auto parts market, so you might also find it at an auto parts store. -- Dale Smith Pacifica, California

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2270	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Quartering and aligning wheels

Does anyone have a picture of the R1/R2/R3 tools that AC produced for aligning and quartering drivers on Steamers? I have an 0-8-0 that I am replacing drivers on, and am having trouble getting everything right. I read the instructions for the tool in the K-Line book, and its still not clear to me how it works. Are they just plates with Axle holes and connecting rod locating pins for each wheel? What are "wheel cups"? I know I should be able to do all the alignment by eye, but if the alignment tool was really simple maybe I could make one up and save a lot of grief. Thanks! Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2271	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Lectra Motive

Are there any warnings with regard to its use with plastics? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2272	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: KC back to LC

Thanks for all the helpful advice and tips on techniques.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2273	From: John Foley	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Central Hobby Supply

Hi Folks Yesterday I tried to forward an e-mail from Terry Harrison. Wow!! it came out a mess. So today I am copying and pasting the message. Thanks for yor patience John Men, I just got off the phone with above. They produced a resin kit for a NYC gon. and covered hopper in 1992-3 in HO and S. They are now doing a B&O M-53 wagon top boxcar in HO only. Point is, they are going to consider rerunning the NYC cars again late this year and MAYBE doing the B&O M-53 in S. Tell everyone you know in S about this. Let us drop them letters, faxes or phone calls giving them our support for S cars. I would especially love to see that Beano car in S at WELL below brass prices. I don't know these people from Adam but I am willing to let them know we support their efforts. Here is their address and phone: Central Hobby Supply 102 Walter Drive Syracuse, NY 13206 phone 315 437-6630 fax 315 437-3281 This is one way to get some more quality S scale cars in our market. Who knows what else we may be able to get these people to make. Terry Harrison

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2274	From: michael prell	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Quartering and aligning wheels

Bill, Greenburg's American Flyer S-gauge Operating & Repair Manual, page 43 may have what you need.There shown is"Instruction for use of wheel Alignment R-2 tool kit. At the bottom of the page are two full size drawings of what you need. A few years ago I took clear plastic and did an overlay transfer which duplicated both. Worked like a charm! (Nobody says that any more) I hope this helps. Good luck! Best of my knowledge, this book' still available. Lost of great suggestions for keeping your stuff alive and well. --- Bill Clark <clark@...> wrote: > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > > Does anyone have a picture of the R1/R2/R3 tools that > AC produced for > aligning and quartering drivers on Steamers? I have > an 0-8-0 that I am > replacing drivers on, and am having trouble getting > everything right. I read > the instructions for the tool in the K-Line book, and > its still not clear to > me how it works. > > Are they just plates with Axle holes and connecting > rod locating pins for > each wheel? What are "wheel cups"? > > I know I should be able to do all the alignment by > eye, but if the alignment > tool was really simple maybe I could make one up and > save a lot of grief. > > Thanks! > Bill > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail > communities at Onelist? > http://www.onelist.com > Come visit our new web site and explore a new > interest > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2275	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: s-onelist sign up

hi guy"s", I need a little help here. I want to send the onelist out to somefriends in the Miami Valley s-gauge group but wasn't sure of the sign up site can someone help me here? Also ,check out our website and find out info on the ohio s-spree coming up and some pics of our s-gauge car. Thanks Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2276	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Motor Cleaners

CRC products are common in auto parts stores around here, especially the Electro-Kleen, which I have used in automotive situations, they also make a Brake Kleen maybe it's more aggressive. My locally operated Radio Shack carries a non-lubircating cleaner, I've run out, so I don't know what brand it is. TECH America shows a number of different kinds of cleaners in their catalog with properties of cleaning & coating for different kinds of contact metals (like gold!!), and no special additives at all, 800-877-0072. Not cheap, but pro quality! I haven't ordered any of these yet, but I find the variety very interesting. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2277	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Quartering and aligning wheels

Hi, Well, I haven't seen any documentation on the following, just observations I have made and my own conclusions. If you look at AF wheel centers, the 'spoke' area opposite the hole or pin for the side rod is slightly larger and deeper than the others. I suspect that the factory tool utilized this to align the drivers on quarters. It has been documented that the quartering wasn't 90 degrees, although I can't imagine why! Wheel cups are 'cup shaped' tools that the the wheel fits into, providing solid support and squaring for pressing onto the axles. The L people use these often, commercial ones are available--but I doubt for AF. I've made a few for when I'm gluing wheels together or changing tires. (Proper steam term for the outside flanged or unflanged rim of a wheel.) If you notice on AF drivers, there is a raised area on the inner side at the axle hole. This is to keep the rest of the wheel, especially the tire, from contacting the chassis The white insulating ring is 'taller' than anything else on the outside of the wheel, which prevents the side rods from contacting the tires too. This is all to keep the metal tires from conducting any electricity to the chassis. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2278	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: s-onelist sign up

The instructions for joining the s-list are at: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm on Paul Yorke's website. Cbtrainnut@... wrote: > > From: Cbtrainnut@... > > hi guy"s", I need a little help here. I want to send the onelist out to > somefriends in the Miami Valley s-gauge group but wasn't sure of the sign up > site can someone help me here? Also ,check out our website and find out info > on the ohio s-spree coming up and some pics of our s-gauge car. Thanks Chris > Burger > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > We are proud as punch of our new web site! > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2279	From: William H Trefts	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: CRC electric motor cleaner

WARNING! WILL ROBINSON! WARNING! I had been warned about using the CRC electric motor cleaner in proximity of some of the plastics used in AF equipment. But I wasn't careful enough. While cleaning a reverse unit, some of the excess flowed onto the knuckle coupler and "softened" it. I will be buying a replacement very soon. Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2280	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: CRC electric motor cleaner

In a message dated 4/1/99 3:08:04 PM, wmhtreftsv@... writes: << While cleaning a reverse unit, some of the excess flowed onto the knuckle coupler and "softened" it. >> Which will also indicate that that CRC may also soften the rotating drum of the reverse unit. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2281	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Pullman plans

Hi, Until (very) recently I did not know that these types of cars were ever made. Does anyone know of some still available? kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2282	From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca	Date: 3/31/1999
Subject: Pullman plans

Thanks to those who have given me Pullman plan numbers for the SHS 12-1 and 10-1-2, but I'm still hoping for the rest, plus the American Models heavyweights. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2284	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Joining the list

There are several ways to join OneList.com list. I think the easiest is to send a note to s-trains-subscribe@onelist.com or visit www.onelist.com For info visit http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2285	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Cleaning

<<Someone on this list suggested using TV tuner cleaner to clean the engines. I also read that in the Greenberg AF repair guide. The stuff I bought had mineral oil in it and left an oily mess. Is there a better cleaner to clean the diesel engines with ?>> Tuner Cleaner is fine for the motors, if that's what you mean. Personally, I use "LPS-1", available at hardware stores, and cheaper than tuner cleaner. It doesn't harm the AF plastic, paint, or lettering if accidentally applied. Be sure it is the "1" version......there are other LPS products. For cleaning shells, etc, just use mild dishwash detergent and a soft brush and/or sponge......then dry thoroughly. Then spray with Endust, available in your supermarket..........the shell will look like new again! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2286	From: James Wysopal	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert prewar catalogs

I am an S gauge collector but have developed an interest in the 3/16" O gauge Gilbert offered before WWII. Does anyone know the catalog numbers for 1938, 1939, 1940 and 1941? I have a D1390 (1941?) and a D1333 (1939 or 40?). It is fascinating to see the original all-metal accessories Gilbert produced and carried over into S Gauge. Wish the prices were the same today!!! Thanks for your help. JIm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2287	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Trading Cards

Hi Folks, Here is a list of my collection of TCG train trading cards for anyone who is interested in cataloging these items. Does anyone know how many cards were in the set? When they were made (look like early to mid-fifties)? How much they are worth? #1 Locomotive "999", N.Y.Central RR #2 Covered Hopper, Shippers Car Line #3 GG1 Electric, Pennsylvania RR #6 Camelback Loco., Central RR of NJ #26 Diesel Switcher, Nat. Rwys. of Mexico #28 Electric Loco., Coal Mining Type #30 "William Mason", Baltimore & Ohio R.R. #41 First Diesel Loco., Central R.R. of NJ #47 Forney Loco., N.Y. Elevated R.R. #49 Fireless Cooker, Switching Locomotive #55 The "York", Baltimore & Ohio R.R. #56 The "General", Civil War Locomotive #57 Steam Loco., Great Northern R.R. #58 The "Lafayette", Baltimore & Ohio R.R. #60 English "Rocket", Steam Locomotive #61 Street Car, Horse Drawn #62 McKeen Car, Union Pacific R.R. #63 "Eddy Clock", Boston & Albany R.R. #64 1 Dome Tank CAr, Old HIckory Chem. Co. #67 Live Poultry Car, Live Poultry Trans. Co. #70 Electric Loco., NY, NH & Hart. R.R. #73 Wrecking Crane, Lehigh Valley R.R. Craig O'Connell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2288	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Cleaning

I would like to comment on Doug Peck's last posting. I respect Doug tremendously but disagree with one thing he said, and another part of what he said opens up a question of choices. Yes the best way to clean shells etc. is to use mild dishwasing detergent (not the kind used in a dishwasher but the kind you use when washing dishes by hand). I like to use either cotton balls (real cotton, not synthetics which can scratch the finish). For irregular surfaces I use a small brush sold in gourmet food stores for cleaning mushrooms -- it's very soft. Temperature should be the same for wash water and rinse water -- not too hot. Go very carefully around decals and never rub lettering -- just pat it. Before washing, remove as much dust etc. as possible with a soft dry large clean paintbrush. There's a lot more to cleaning trains that this, but it will improve the appearance of many items. WARNING -- a few Flyer finishes can be damaged by water -- the ones I have found so far are the red or maroon on painted heavyweight passenger cars and the blue on the state of maine boxcars., and a few cases where ink not paint was used in the lettering. Obviously, these should not be washed. Now to the choices. !. It is almost impossible to clean a shell in this manner without removing some paint, especially from the raised areas. I believe that these areas should be touched up with carefully matched paint. This does not bother me at all, but it does bother some folks. If you can't stand touchups and abhor repro decals, you probably shouldn't clean your trains. Just dust them with a soft brush. 2. I don't believe in applying finishes like Endust or Pledge to Flyer trains. All of them will discolor over time, possibly in only a few years. Even if it takes 20 years, they will eventually turn yellow or brown. Since I am restoring trains for the future generations, I don't use them. I have had many epic battles to remove old brown pledge and similar finishes from trains. I don't want to cause future problems for myself or other owners of my trains. Other people may have a different viewpoint. Even though all Flyer finishes except the NP passenger train and a few tinplate items were semi-flat to look more realistic, one of Flyer's big selling points, some collectors put shiny finishes on all their stuff. Some of these cannot be removed without taking off the paint too. So I recommend great caution in applying waxes polishes oil WD-40 or anything else that leaves a film or coating, to Flyer trains. Tom Jarcho P.S. I'd like to apologize to you S scale guys for taking up so much space on a subject of no interest to you. I think that S scale has the best modellers of any scale in it and I am constantly amazed by the beauty of your work, despite the limited availability of S items. S is truly the modeller's scale. TJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2289	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: John Foley's Central Hobby Supply note

I have some experience with these people and their kits. I have assembled their PRR flatcar and their Erie 5-bay covered hopper car. I also have their two-bay NYC covered hopper kit but have not yet built it. Their kit-maker, I believe, is Funero & Camerlengo. Quality is variable. The PRR flatcar went together very easily, but the center sill is about 4 scale inches off the car's centerline. On the other hand, the Erie hopper was difficult but well-designed, and built into a fine model. The NYC hopper appears to be similar in quality to the Erie car. However, Kent Singer built one, and he found -- after assembling the body -- that it wasn't square. He recommended checking for squareness and filing the parts to suit before assembling. I took his advice when I built the Erie car. Central Hobby Supply also offered a PRR roundroof boxcar in S, which I ordered several years ago. Every year or so I ask them how it's going, and they write back and tell me "some day." I think with more orders they would be more timely.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2290	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Jarcho wrote: (big clip) > P.S. I'd like to apologize to you S scale guys for taking up so much space > on a subject of no interest to you. I think that S scale has the best > modellers of any scale in it and I am constantly amazed by the beauty of > your work, despite the limited availability of S items. S is truly the > modeller's scale. TJ > Hello - I consider myself an "S-scale guy" and there is no need to apologize. I recognize the tradition, history, and value of American Flyer collectors and runners and I certainly think that I personally benefit from the customer base you offer manufacturers. I admit I have little interest in Flyer or hi-rail modeling but nobody is forcing me to read it. I would resist any effort to separate scale from hi-rail. I think it would hurt us scale people more than we would gain. I am frequently amazed at the repair and rebuilding talents displayed by Flyer collectors - there are a lot of scale pepple (like me) who are not museum quality builders by a long shot but do the best we can in representing trains in 3/16 scale. We're all in this minority scale together - "can't we all just get along?" Art Armstrong

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2291	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: York and PortLines

York is only two weeks away. If you will be there, stop by and visit with Wayne Beachy and I at the Joe's Train Repair booth at the north end of the Black Hall (between the Purple Hall (where S-Helperr Service is located) and the Restaurant. Wayne is the founder of the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers and will be helping out to provide more assistance to customers. Stop by and introduce yourself. This year we will be featuring Crown Reefers and Twin Whistle structures from PortLine Hobbies. Doug Peck is unable to make it due to commitments, but we have arranged to display his entire line of cars and structures that are still available. Joe == Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2292	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert prewar catalogs

Jim, The 1938 catalog is Form D1259. My 1939 catalog doesn't have its cover, nor does the 1941 catalog, but the '41 catalog has the red, white, and blue cover. The 1940 catalog has a photograph of a yard full of steam engines and steam on the front, but I don't find any number. "Greenberg's Guide To American Flyer Wide Gauge" describes all the catalogs, but doesn't give numbers. Roger Delthony From: "James Wysopal" <jwysopal@...> I am an S gauge collector but have developed an interest in the 3/16" O gauge Gilbert offered before WWII. Does anyone know the catalog numbers for 1938, 1939, 1940 and 1941? I have a D1390 (1941?) and a D1333 (1939 or 40?). It is fascinating to see the original all-metal accessories Gilbert produced and carried over into S Gauge. Wish the prices were the same today!!! Thanks for your help. JIm ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ta Da! Come see our new web site! http://www.onelist.com Onelist: A free email community service ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2293	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Lectra Motive

From: David_Horn@... Are there any warnings with regard to its use with plastics? Thanks. I don't trust much more than soap and water on plastics, though I recall that someone on the list had a problem even with that. I use it only on disassembled engines that have the body removed. As to the warnings, the can says that it is not to be used on polycarbonate plastics like Lexan. It also says "MAY ALSO BE HARMFUL TO OTHER PLASTICS". Also says you should protect rubber, plastic parts, and painted surfaces from overspray. In addition it says you shouldn't spray directly on painted surfaces. Finally, it says don't use on energized equipment, but bear in mind it is intended for automotive electrical parts. It is said to be "non conductive and non flamable" Now, all of the above should keep their lawyers happy and I should know, because I'm a lawyer too, but as to practicality, it hasn't hurt the plastic in whitewalls and has gotten them cleaner than anything else I have ever used. Also no problems with the bakelite brush holders. I wouldn't spray it on my 283, however. I have to confess, I have sprayed it on a running motor and I have lived to tell about it. Best thing about it is it leaves no residue and is totally mineral oil free. Good luck Dale Smith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2294	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: CRC electric motor cleaner

William H Trefts wrote: > I had been warned about using the CRC electric motor cleaner in proximity > of some of the plastics used in AF equipment. But I wasn't careful > enough. While cleaning a reverse unit, some of the excess flowed onto > the knuckle coupler and "softened" it. I will be buying a replacement > very soon. > > Bill Trefts After reading David Dewey's post, I think there may be a lot of different, but very similar sounding CRC products. What I am using is called "Electric Parts Cleaner", not "Electric Motor Cleaner" . It is intended for use on Alternators, starters, distributors, commutators and solenoids, some of which have some plastic parts. -- Dale Smith Pacifica, California

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2295	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/1/1999
Subject: Re: Lectra Motive (humor warning!)

I take it this is different stuff than Lectra-Shave??? OWW! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2296	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: cleaners

David Dewey wrote: CRC products are common in auto parts stores around here, especially the Electro-Kleen, which I have used in automotive situations, they also make a Brake Kleen maybe it's more aggressive. Aggressive? What an understatement! Keep Brake-Kleen away from toy trains. Keep it away from ALL plastics!!! May I suggest a visit to www.caig.com ? These nice folks make all sorts of electronics cleaners and lubricants including Cramolin Paste (Now called CaiLube) which is the BEST electrical contact enhancer ever made. Wipe your cleaned track with this stuff and say goodbye to sparks and dead spots. Check out their cleaners. The site spells out the specs on all their products. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2297	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert prewar catalogs

Jim, 1938 = D1259 1939 = do not have 1940 = D1333 1941 = D1390 Hope this helps. I agree with you that the prewar 3/16" scale Gilbert O gauge is facinating. The die cast rolling stock and heavyweights are really nifty! Much of the post war S gauge line is composed of direct decendents from the prewar trains. All six steam locomotives (The 4-4-2 Atlantic, 4-6-2 K-5, 4-6-4 Hudson, 4-8-4 Northern, 0-8-0, and 4-6-2 Royal Blue) are carry overs. In some ways the prewar pieces are more faithful to the prototypes than the post war (except for the track and gauge, of course!). RB RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2298	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Re: cleaners

Hi All, Chris' post about Craig.com made me realize, I may have confused them with Tech America -- I can't find my Catalog, but I do remember going to the Craig site and being amazed at the variety of products they carry for electrical contact cleaning and servicing/ The important message here is that there are products not normally available to the General Public that may fit our needs much better than that found over the counter at a local Radio Shack or the like. We just need to know where to go to find them! S' David D. PS Thanks for the clarification on Brake Kleen. While I use the CRC products regularly on Car projects, I've never used them on the trains, except once on a bare chassis that had spent it's last few years in a rat's nest. I just consider them too aggressive to be trusted near the materials used in trains.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2299	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: All Aboard Snow Panels

I am looking for pictures of All Aboard Scenic Snow Panels to add to my webpage. Also interested in purchasing a Snow Panel Set. Can anyone help me? My All Aboard Page is at : http://members.tripod.com/~Chevy1953/ab/home.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2300	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Parts Cleaners

I'm new on this list but would like to contribute regarding a parts cleaner I use for AF. Its called Chemtronics Electro-Wash and is made for cleaning and degreasing electronic equipment. It is plastic compatable and I have used it for several years on my trains. We use it on the real locomotives where I work. We also use the CRC products but most are not good on plastic. A good industrial supply or electronic store should have Electro-Wash.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2301	From: J. Row	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Re: Parts Cleaners

An additional suggestion on this one. check out www.chemtronics.com for more information on applications and "Where to get it". Jim Row bradandtj@... wrote: > > From: bradandtj@... > > I'm new on this list but would like to > contribute regarding a parts cleaner I > use for AF. Its called Chemtronics Electro-Wash and is made for > cleaning > and degreasing electronic equipment. It > is plastic compatable and I have used it for several years on my trains. > We use it > on the real locomotives where I work. We > also use the CRC products but most are > not good on plastic. A good industrial supply or electronic store > should have > Electro-Wash. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Start a new hobby. Meet a new friend. > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: The leading provider of free email list services > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2302	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: More Scrap Book

If you bookmarked the scrap book page the other day, be aware that it has moved. I searched over 500 flyer related E-bay sales to find the most interesting images. I put them out there on S-Trains for your enjoyment. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/scrapbook/1/scrapbook1.htm (original set) http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/scrapbook/2/scrapbook1.htm http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/scrapbook/3/scrapbook1.htm http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/scrapbook/4/scrapbook1.htm -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2303	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Cleaners

Could someone who knows this stuff summarize and collate the results of the discussion on cleaners in one message? I've kind of gotten confused. TJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2304	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Jubilation

Thanks to everyone who reminded me that a CP 4-4-4 is a Jubilee. It IS a bizarre name for a locomotive and I forget it every time the subject comes up. How about that Holman's Absurdity, however? Nobody chimed in with any information on this modified Baldwin American class. Who's holding back? Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2305	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 4/3/1999
Subject: Digest Number 188

Subject: cleaners My cleaners tend to be the less exppensive type but also are not harsh. To clean grease, oil, etc. on motors, chassis, I buy giant can of lighter fluid (yes it is flammable but not nearly as volitile as those being talked about here. Use with "old fashioned" solder paste brush like used to apply soldering flux (or, if you are old enough, to apply white paste when you were in grade school). A large bar of ivory soap in a spare shallow dish and a very expensive, two inch, fine, soft natural bristle paint brush (today usually made in china like the trains) and a soft tooth brush for crevices to wash bodies. Do not scrub hard, you are not cleaning a concrete floor. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2306	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 4/3/1999
Subject: Contact cleaner

When I was making automated editors for the film and TV industry, we used a cleaner called Cramolin R5 from Caig Laboratories to clean relay contacts without the need to take the unit apart. When I tried to reorder myself, it had been discontinued. The new version that gets by the EPA is called DeoxIT D5. A 5 oz. spray can is under $10.00. It is the only contact cleaner you'll need. I used this for years to clean comutators and reverse units. It would cut a couple of hours off of getting the engines to run and not put them through the stress of disassembly. It is particularly good for the "like new" engines that won't run. (Of course, the first thing to do is scrape out the Gilbert grease and replace it with something that works like lubriplate. Other wise cleaning the contacts will only make it easier to burn up the motor since it will get current but won't be able to turn.) I have had the Radio Shack tuner cleaners flame up on me. --- Nick Colleran >Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:08:44 -0500 > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> >Subject: cleaners > >David Dewey wrote: >CRC products are common in auto parts stores around here, especially the >Electro-Kleen, which I have used in automotive situations, they also make a >Brake Kleen maybe it's more aggressive. > > >Aggressive? What an understatement! Keep Brake-Kleen away from toy trains. >Keep it away from ALL plastics!!! > >May I suggest a visit to www.caig.com ? These nice folks make all sorts of >electronics cleaners and lubricants including Cramolin Paste (Now called >CaiLube) which is the BEST electrical contact enhancer ever made. Wipe your >cleaned track with this stuff and say goodbye to sparks and dead spots. >Check out their cleaners. The site spells out the specs on all their >products. > >Enjoy, >Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2307	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/3/1999
Subject: Re: Pullman plans

Dear Keith, I guess one of the most disappointing aspects of the Heavyweight Passenger Car project that AM made for us in the early 90's, was the fact that a second run of the three 82' cars was not produced. In addition to the two Pullman sleepers, we had Ron make a cafe car. It was a CNJ prototyped of a re-built wooden car that was used on "The Blue Comet" (as was the 72' combine, coach and observation). The sleepers had many in HO drooling, as we had two to thier one (AHM 12-1) and ours had the roof ducting for air conditioning, which the HO car did not. I had talked to Alan Evans (ex-NASG president)and John Foley (current eastern region VP) about the NASG helping AM re-run these cars in the future, but I am not sure the status of my proposal. Ron might understandalbe be unwilling to re-run these on his own as they will not operate on the AF 18.55"radius track or go through the curved part of the AF switch. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2308	From: Gale Hall	Date: 4/3/1999
Subject: Greg's question about Greenbrier Ad

After reading this ad several times I almost want to ask: "what did he say?" It seems to provide a great deal of information that I am sure I really don't need to know. The one statement is made that the cut off date for most S scalers is 1955.....I can't see exactly how this was arrived at by offering a model that was made in 1962.......maybe S Scalers don't want anything newer than 1961, go figure that one out. It goes on to say that a group of modelers do model a transition era beyond this date. And it says the GP-30 was priced lower than normal to encourage sales and to test the market, and that the next offering will reflect the true market value of the locomotive.......well the $759 price seemed to be ample in scope as the prior B-B diesels had been in the $400 range. BUT, now that sales are in the final days, we are going to custom paint and donate these models to various museums around the country to promote S scale by offering a museum quality GP-30 to represent the S size when comparing to other scales. Very noble, but on the other hand, why not sell them for X amount and sell them all, if the end result was to have the project pay for itself and turn a profit. Options are limitless, guess you could sell the first one for $75,000 and give all the others away for that matter....... And like a Saturday afternoon movie serial, the next offering will reflect the current market value of the model......ta da.....that says get ready!!!!! Which brings up the question: If these are made in Korea with cheap labor......Why then can we not buy a GP-30 at Mc Donalds, they have cheap labor? This is not cheap labor it is highly skilled labor with state of the art photoengraving, lost wax casting and sheet brass forming. If the turmoil in Korea is such to live is to risk life and limb .....WHY don't we adopt these families and bring them to this country? Well this is my thoughts on an old timetable......... Gale Hall Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2309	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 4/2/1999
Subject: Wheel Sets

Hello All, I would like to know what wheel sets I can get in S scale to fit Showcase Line trucks. I got two pair with American Flyer compatible wheel sets and I want to replace them with 33 inch scale wheel sets. Thanks Phil Randall ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2310	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: Re: The showcase Line wheel sets

Dear Phil, I am a bit confused. All Showcase Line freight car models come with replacemant four RP-25 code 110 33" wheelsets. What other type of "scale" wheelsets are you looking for? Des Plaines did have code 88 33" freight car wheels that I think will fit our trucks. Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2311	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: Re: Wheel Sets

Phil: If you look in the styrofoam packaging, there is a circular indentation. Within that indentation are 4 scale wheelsets in a plastic bag. If they are mising, I imagine that Don Thompson can make them available to you. Best of luck, Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2312	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: PRR H-34

I just recently found a Mainline Modeler that had slipped between the cracks without being read; July 1998. One of the more interesting articles is about modeling the PRR H34 PS2 covered hopper. Today I was done at the NYC mainline, and on the siding is a string of ballast cars. Closer inspection showed most of them to be H34 A, C and D in Conrail Gray. Many of them have their PRR number stenciled on them. I took the opportunity to see how accurate the MM article is, to look at the differences between the sub-classes, and shoot some detail shots of the PS2. It was interesting to note that some of them were on PRR trucks, but more of them were on NYC trucks, all of them journal bearing trucks converted to roller bearing. There was also one LV PS2 in the string. There were a few detail differences between it and the PRR cars. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/marchweb.htm ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2313	From: M. McConnell	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: Summary of Cleaners and Tips

TJ asked if someone would collate the messages on various cleaners. Following is what was posted, but I've re-ordered the messages to group related comments and responses together. Message: 8 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 19:42:08 -0500 (EST) From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) Subject: Cleaners Could someone who knows this stuff summarize and collate the results of the discussion on cleaners in one message? I've kind of gotten confused. TJ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 21:59:37 -0400 From: Scott Brown <sbrown@...> Subject: Re: Digest Number 185 Someone on this list suggested using TV tuner cleaner to clean the engines. I also read that in the Greenberg AF repair guide. The stuff I bought had mineral oil in it and left an oily mess. Is there a better cleaner to clean the diesel engines with ? Thanks Scott Brown sbrown@... Message: 14 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 16:17:19 EST From: PortLines@... Subject: Re: Cleaning Tuner Cleaner is fine for the motors, if that's what you mean. Personally, I use "LPS-1", available at hardware stores, and cheaper than tuner cleaner. It doesn't harm the AF plastic, paint, or lettering if accidentally applied. Be sure it is the "1" version...there are other LPS products. For cleaning shells, etc, just use mild dishwash detergent and a soft brush and/or sponge...then dry thoroughly. Then spray with Endust, available in your supermarket...the shell will look like new again! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobby Supply http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Message: 21 Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:21:13 -0500 (EST) From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) Subject: contact cleaners Contact cleaners were reformulated a few years ago because the chloroflurocarbons that worked so well in them were blamed for depleting the ozone layer. This was done by law and through international treaties. The contact cleaners on the market now are flammable, much greasier, and much less effective. They do contain mineral oil. The new cleaners cannot be shot into a working motor for example. They can be used on reverse units sparingly if the excess is blown off by compressed air afterwards. They are not good for much else as far as toy trains go. They certainly should not be used to clean the outside of rolling stock. Tom Jarcho Message: 22 Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 01:13:48 -0800 From: "Dale F. Smith" <dfsmith@...> Subject: Re: Motor Cleaners We had a bit of a discussion on this group a few months ago concerning these cleaners and their health risks, but I noted at that time that I had found an electric motor cleaner at my local Ace hardware in a 1 lb. 3 oz. can called "Lectra-Motive". It is manufactured by CRC industries and cost about $5. It contains tetrachloroethelyne and no oils whatsoever. Several on the group who seemed to be knowledgeable about industrial safety indicated it was not as hazardous as carbon tetrachloride, which has been banned. It works great at cleaning motors and is non-flammable. It is aimed at the the auto parts market, so you might also find it at an auto parts store. Dale Smith Pacifica, California Message: 22 Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 21:59:47 -0800 From: "Dale F. Smith" <dfsmith@...> Subject: Re: Lectra Motive I don't trust much more than soap and water on plastics, though I recall that someone on the list had a problem even with that. I use it only on disassembled engines that have the body removed. As to the warnings, the can says that it is not to be used on polycarbonate plastics like Lexan. It also says "MAY ALSO BE HARMFUL TO OTHER PLASTICS". Also says you should protect rubber, plastic parts, and painted surfaces from overspray. In addition it says you shouldn't spray directly on painted surfaces. Finally, it says don't use on energized equipment, but bear in mind it is intended for automotive electrical parts. It is said to be "non conductive and non flamable" It hasn't hurt the plastic in whitewalls and has gotten them cleaner than anything else I have ever used. Also no problems with the bakelite brush holders. I wouldn't spray it on my 283, however. I have to confess, I have sprayed it on a running motor and I have lived to tell about it. Best thing about it is it leaves no residue and is totally mineral oil free. Good luck Dale Smith Message: 7 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:14:35 -0800 From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Re: Motor Cleaners CRC products are common in auto parts stores around here, especially the Electro-Kleen, which I have used in automotive situations, they also make a Brake Kleen maybe it's more aggressive. My locally operated Radio Shack carries a non-lubircating cleaner, I've run out, so I don't know what brand it is. TECH America shows a number of different kinds of cleaners in their catalog with properties of cleaning & coating for different kinds of contact metals (like gold!!), and no special additives at all, 800-877-0072. Not cheap, but pro quality! I haven't ordered any of these yet, but I find the variety very interesting. S' David D. Message: 1 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:08:44 -0500 From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> Subject: cleaners Aggressive? What an understatement! Keep Brake-Kleen away from toy trains. Keep it away from ALL plastics!!! May I suggest a visit to www.caig.com ? These nice folks make all sorts of electronics cleaners and lubricants including Cramolin Paste (Now called CaiLube) which is the BEST electrical contact enhancer ever made. Wipe your cleaned track with this stuff and say goodbye to sparks and dead spots. Check out their cleaners. The site spells out the specs on all their products. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo Message: 3 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 09:21:28 -0800 From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Re: cleaners Hi All, Chris' post about Craig.com made me realize, I may have confused them with Tech America -- I can't find my Catalog, but I do remember going to the Craig site and being amazed at the variety of products they carry for electrical contact cleaning and servicing. The important message here is that there are products not normally available to the General Public that may fit our needs much better than that found over the counter at a local Radio Shack or the like. We just need to know where to go to find them! S' David D. PS Thanks for the clarification on Brake Kleen. While I use the CRC products regularly on Car projects, I've never used them on the trains, except once on a bare chassis that had spent it's last few years in a rat's nest. I just consider them too aggressive to be trusted near the materials used in trains. Message: 10 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 14:04:48 -0600 From: William H Trefts <wmhtreftsv@...> Subject: CRC electric motor cleaner WARNING! WILL ROBINSON! WARNING! I had been warned about using the CRC electric motor cleaner in proximity of some of the plastics used in AF equipment. But I wasn't careful enough. While cleaning a reverse unit, some of the excess flowed onto the knuckle coupler and "softened" it. I will be buying a replacement very soon. Bill Trefts Message: 11 Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 15:26:22 EST From: RBubeck327@... Subject: Re: CRC electric motor cleaner Which will also indicate that that CRC may also soften the rotating drum of the reverse unit. RB Message: 23 Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 22:13:33 -0800 From: "Dale F. Smith" <dfsmith@...> Subject: Re: CRC electric motor cleaner After reading David Dewey's post, I think there may be different, but very similar sounding CRC products. What I am using is called "Electric Parts Cleaner", not "Electric Motor Cleaner" . It is intended for use on Alternators, starters, distributors, commutators and solenoids, some of which have some plastic parts. Dale Smith Pacifica, California Message: 5 Date: Fri, 2 Apr 1999 11:37:50 -0700 (MST) From: bradandtj@... Subject: Parts Cleaners I would like to contribute regarding a parts cleaner I use for AF. Its called Chemtronics Electro-Wash and is made for cleaning and degreasing electronic equipment. It is plastic compatable and I have used it for several years on my trains. We use it on the real locomotives where I work. We also use the CRC products but most are not good on plastic. A good industrial supply or electronic store should have Electro-Wash. Message: 6 Date: Fri, 02 Apr 1999 12:21:12 -0700 From: "J. Row" <row@...> Subject: Re: Parts Cleaners An additional suggestion on this one. check out www.chemtronics.com for more information on applications and "Where to get it". Jim Row ===================================================== To Summarize - here are the products suggested. Use "LPS-1", available at hardware stores, and cheaper than tuner cleaner. It doesn't harm the AF plastic, paint, or lettering if accidentally applied. Be sure it is the "1" version. "Lectra-Motive" manufactured by CRC industries found at Ace hardware TECH America 800-877-0072 shows a number of different kinds of cleaners in their catalog. http://www.caig.com makes all sorts of electronics cleaners and lubricants including Cramolin Paste (Now called CaiLube). http://www.chemtronics.com Chemtronics Electro-Wash and is made for cleaning and degreasing electronic equipment.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2314	From: jim	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: kitbashing diecast steam engine shells

Hi, I was thinking about kitbashing two Pennsy K5 diecast steam engine shells. I was thinking that if I cut each one in two pieces of different lengths I could re-attach them together to end up with a Pennsy Atlantic and a Mountain type. My problem is how do you attach two diecast halves together. Do you use adhesive or do you weld or solder the parts together? Has anyone done something like this before? Is it even possible? Thanks for any help. Jim.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2315	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Greenbrier add]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2316	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/4/1999
Subject: Re: kitbashing diecast steam engine shells

It is very feasible to join die cast boilers together with epoxy. A trick that helps is to reinforce the joint from inside the shell with steel wire "splints" buried inside the epoxy. The splints can even be thin nails less heads. They need to run at a 90 Deg. angle across the joint (from front to back of the loco.). jim wrote: > From: jim <webmaster@...> > > Hi, > I was thinking about kitbashing two Pennsy K5 diecast steam engine > shells. I was thinking that if I cut each one in two pieces of different > lengths I could re-attach them together to end up with a Pennsy Atlantic > and a Mountain type. My problem is how do you attach two diecast halves > together. Do you use adhesive or do you weld or solder the parts > together? Has anyone done something like this before? Is it even > possible? > Thanks for any help. Jim. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > We are proud as punch of our new web site! > http://www.onelist.com > Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2317	From: jim	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Searching For...]

Maybe someone in the group can help them.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2318	From: jim	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Need people to exhibit layout....

Here is an e-mail I received, maybe someone in the group would like to help them. ............ Hi, My name is Andr� Poisson, and I'm a member of a team who organize exhibition twice a year in Laval (North of Montr�al) in Qu�bec. For the next exhibition in November 13 & 14, we are looking for people who would like to exhibe their own layout. We surely able to do something for you if you want to come at our show. So if you are interest, please contcat me of the chief-member of the organization at : Andr� Poisson : mailto:hobby.passion@... Didier Piette : mailto:didier.piette@... We are waiting for you. Thank's Andr� Poisson http://www3.sympatico.ca/hobby.passion/etm.html -- ************************************************** Hobby & Passion - Le site du Mod�liste Webmaster : Andr� P. le "Phantom" e-mail : mailto:hobby.passion@... WebSite : http://www3.sympatico.ca/hobby.passion/ **************************************************

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2319	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 184

About a year ago I asked this group a question and got a quick answer. Unfortunately, I lost the answer in a recent move, so here is the question again: There is a collection of model trains somewhere in Ohio that were hand built out of black and white ivory, back in the 50s and 60s. The builder is dead now, but his collection is in a museum. Can someone tell me where the collection is? I'm a CPA and I plan on going there on April 16th, if I can survive that long. "Old accountant never die, they just balance out." Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2320	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: What about Isopropyl alcohol

I have a couple of 2 oz bottles of RShack head cleaner marked safe for plastics that I've been using to clean commutators. It is XX-YY-ZZ isopropynol (isopropyl alcohol). I don't have the formula numbers with me, but was wondering if Isopropyl Alcohol from the drug store would work. I don't think RShack sells this any more. They now have their Professional Tape Head cleaner, and it is not safe for plastics. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2321	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: 12B red light

I just bought a 12B to power some accessories. The circuit breaker and reset button work whenever a short occurs, but the red light doesn't come on, instead the green light stays on. Any ideas on why and what to do about it? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2322	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 189

> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 20:43:56 PST > From: "Gale Hall" <gale_hall@...> > Subject: Greg's question about Greenbrier Ad > > After reading this ad several times I almost want to ask: "what did he > say?" It seems to provide a great deal of information that I am sure I > really don't need to know. > > The one statement is made that the cut off date for most S scalers is > 1955.....I can't see exactly how this was arrived at by offering a model > that was made in 1962.......maybe S Scalers don't want anything newer > than 1961, go figure that one out. It goes on to say that a group of > modelers do model a transition era beyond this date. > This was derived from the comments received from potential customers. The greatest number of reasons we have heard for NOT buying a GP-30 is that it is "too modern." We then asked what era they modeled and the vast majority was 1955 and before. Perhaps this marketing survey does not follow the guidelines of establishing a good cross section, but it is the info we have at hand. We also received one comment that it was "too old" for a fellow's layout. ;-) > And it says the GP-30 was priced lower than normal to encourage sales > and to test the market, and that the next offering will reflect the true > market value of the locomotive.......well the $759 price seemed to be > ample in scope as the prior B-B diesels had been in the $400 range. > Let's be realistic here. The prior B-B diesels in that price range were imported years before - everything was cheaper. The diesels that came in prior to the GP-30 were the RR SD-7/9 TWO years before at $729.00, and the OMI SD-50/60 the year before at $920. In addition, NINE versions of the GP-30 were offered which required additional tooling, parts, etc. > BUT, now that sales are in the final days, we are going to custom paint > and donate these models to various museums around the country to promote > S scale by offering a museum quality GP-30 to represent the S size when > comparing to other scales. Very noble, but on the other hand, why not > sell them for X amount and sell them all, if the end result was to have > the project pay for itself and turn a profit. Options are limitless, > guess you could sell the first one for $75,000 and give all the others > away for that matter....... > Inventory sitting around costs money. Some other imports, not in S, have been known to destroy the last few models and take a tax write off to get them out of the way. Geoff would rather donate them to non-profit organizations to help promote S Scale. GRM will never have a 'clearance sale.' But we will be willing to sell you the first of the next run for around $125,000; what model would you like? ;-) > And like a Saturday afternoon movie serial, the next offering will > reflect the current market value of the model......ta da.....that says > get ready!!!!! Geoff and I feel that honesty is the best way. We want folks to realize what was done and how. Based upon pure economics of the industry and other factors of the time, the basic GP-30 should have been $825 or more. > Which brings up the question: If these are made in Korea with cheap > labor......Why then can we not buy a GP-30 at Mc Donalds, they have > cheap labor? > > This is not cheap labor it is highly skilled labor with state of the art > photoengraving, lost wax casting and sheet brass forming. > > If the turmoil in Korea is such to live is to risk life and limb > .....WHY don't we adopt these families and bring them to this country? > > Well this is my thoughts on an old timetable......... > > Gale Hall Huh? Life and limb? Not sure what this has to do with the GP-30 discussion, but 'cheap labor' is a relative term. While the Korean works receive less than comparable workers in the US, their cost of living has greatly increased in the last ten years. Electronic companies are grabbing the folks who know how to solder, and higher wages must be paid by model builders to keep the good talent. I would love to make a model in the US, but the kids at McDonald have never seen a soldering iron, and even with that limitation, they would probably still want $30/hour! ;-) Take care, Bill Wade Manager of Greenbrier Railroad Models -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2323	From: Dennis Back	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Re: 12B red light

David: I could be wrong, but I think the green light always stays on, so I believe your red bulb is blown out and needs replacing. Dennis Miami, Fl. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2324	From: Mark Preman	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains for Sale

The April list is up. Good Ol'A.C. Gilbert toys available at http://www.amaricanflyertrains.com You guys have been buying faster than I can find stuff. The list reflects that. "S" gauge is alive and well! I am in negotiations on several good size collections plus a pilgrimage to York so the May list could be back up to size again. I have read with a personal interest the recent "vendor venom" and can only offer this: There are still vendors out there who enjoy the hobby as well as the $$$, who pay a fair price to sellers, who offer that piece at a reasonable mark-up to buyers, and who offer money back for a satisfied customer. That word should get equal time. My best to all, Mark B. Preman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2325	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Re: #189

Nick Colleran. Finally, someone else with Cramolin experience. Caig Labs products are amazing. I've been touting them for years, but nobody knows them. Nice job done by M. McConnell on organizing the posts on this subject. __________________________ A few years ago, AM built a set of lightweight streamliners in B&O colors. I still have the ad from S-Gaugian. I've never seen these cars at York, I don't know anybody who has them, but I would like to buy a set. Anybody? I am also looking for Flyer prewar 0-gauged heavyweights in paintable condition (trucks and couplers to be swapped out) if anybody has seen any. __________________________ Phil Randall, if you don't have the scale wheels, I do. I'll trade them for your hi-rail wheels. Contact me off-list at busy-boy@... . __________________________ Jim who wanted to kitbash 2 K-5's: I have seen a "Big-Boy" made from two Northerns. Cute idea, but really, it looked like s---! More than wire or nails epoxied across the break, you will need a piece of structure inside the boiler to act as a rigid frame, possibly 2 or 3 pieces of a 4 to 5 inch long metal tubing or square stock. One of your biggest hoo-hahs on this will be boiler diameter. The boilers taper somewhat and you will need to use filler material. I wonder if the better way to do this would be to wrap the joined boilers with sheet brass, cutting out the stack and domes, then painting and detailing the wrap. At least there won't be a bondo filled seam. Then there is running gear and linkage. Are you planning to use Flyer running chassis? This is the kind of project I have contemplated but never had the gumption to undertake. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2326	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Re: 12B red light

I have a 12B. The green light should stay on. The obvious- have you checked the red light bulb? If so, then remove the cover and see if the socket wiring is intact. Keep us posted. David_Horn@... wrote: > > From: David_Horn@... > > I just bought a 12B to power some accessories. The circuit breaker and > reset button work whenever a short occurs, but the red light doesn't come > on, instead the green light stays on. Any ideas on why and what to do > about it? Thanks. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms? > http://www.onelist.com > Sign up for a new email list today > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2327	From: michael prell	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Great Train Program on Public Television

There's a really fine historical account of the narrow gauge railroad that serviced Pike's Peak that Public Television has for air. It's called, Pike's Peak Route and contains an hour's worth of vintage photos and film. Be sure to look for it on your local PBS station, and if you don't see it mentioned, give yopur local folks a call. Tell 'em that you'll take out a membership if they air it. What the hay! It couldn't hurt. They could sure use your support! _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2328	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: Usernet searches

If you are not familiar with the deja news (Usernet) database you may want to learn about this vast and powerful part of the internet. Usernet was here before the WWW as born. Rec.Models.Railroad is only one list of thousands that are out there. I have found that deja news is the easiest and fastest way to find what you are looking for. Whether it is about trains, medical problems or other information needs. I have added two more sample searches. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/search/search.htm If you come up with one of your own that you would like to share please send it to me. I am not satisfied with the 'scale' oriented ones yet. The 'flyer' one works great. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2329	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/5/1999
Subject: power units for PA

Can anyone help me re: finding either damaged shells with working powered trucks and E units, or just the same without a shell for a PA or PB. Thanks, Mike S. Tujunga, Ca.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2330	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Museum

Message: 2 Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 07:42:05 -0400 From: Peter Irvine <pjervin@...> Subject: Re: Digest Number 184 About a year ago I asked this group a question and got a quick answer. Unfortunately, I lost the answer in a recent move, so here is the question again: There is a collection of model trains somewhere in Ohio that were hand built out of black and white ivory, back in the 50s and 60s. The builder is dead now, but his collection is in a museum. Can someone tell me where the collection is? I'm a CPA and I plan on going there on April 16th, if I can survive that long. "Old accountant never die, they just balance out." Peter Ervin Peter - I think this is the one but you should call and check, "toy and hobby museum" is located in Orrville, OH, just west of Canton. Phone number is 330-683-8697. Forty is the old age of youth, fifty the youth of old age.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2331	From: CliffGarz@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Circus Cut-outs

Hello all, about a month or two ago there was an Item on Ebay that I took a chance on for only $30.00 what the heck right. The description only said cardboard circus cutouts with no reference to AF. Once I got the item The envelope said American Flyer Circus. Is there an easy way of telling if it is an original or a repro circus pack? It matches the description given in Greenbergs Guide, and I could not find any R or Repro on it, there is not date anywhare but it look to be about that old, and uncut. But as with any piece that is not very common, you kinda want to be sure of the authenticity of it. thanks in advance Cliff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2332	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Red light, green light

Thanks everyone for your notes and helpful tips. I opened the 12B last night, tested both bulbs, inspected wiring connections, lightly sandpapered the track voltage contacts, tested the continuity of the left bulb holder (bulb in, tested continuity between the two points of wiring connection, OK), and generally inspected the unit. Even still, the green light stays lit (as apparently with a 12B it should), the breaker worked whenever a short was induced, but the red light never lit. I'm afraid it might be corrosion or dirt somewhere on a pair of contacts contained (an inaccessible) in the breaker housing as was suggested by Trains16. Given the fact that this transformer will be under the layout to power accessories, and otherwise seems to work fine, I'm not going to pursue the red light function any further. Thanks again, for all your help.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2333	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Re: Circus Cut-outs

Cliff, I bought a repro Flyer Circus by Greenberg, and each of the cardboard sheets has printed in about 10 pt type at one end "1981 Reproduction by Greenberg Publishing Co." The set came in a clear plastic envelope. Roger Delthony CliffGarz@... wrote: > From: CliffGarz@... > > Hello all, about a month or two ago there was an Item on Ebay that I took a > chance on for only $30.00 what the heck right. The description only said > cardboard circus cutouts with no reference to AF. Once I got the item The > envelope said American Flyer Circus. Is there an easy way of telling if it > is an original or a repro circus pack? It matches the description given in > Greenbergs Guide, and I could not find any R or Repro on it, there is not > date anywhare but it look to be about that old, and uncut. But as with any > piece that is not very common, you kinda want to be sure of the authenticity > of it. thanks in advance Cliff > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist? > http://www.onelist.com > Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2334	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light

But David, a red light district is usually found around railroads! The 12Bs I've worked on all had acessable points on the breaker, but it probably isn't important enough to spend modelling or railroading time trying to chase it down! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2335	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light

I just remembered something vis-a-vis transformer bulbs. When I replaced one of the lights on my 12B I had to find a different voltage bulb. A "standard" 12-18 volt range bulb was so dim it barely made the filament glow. I don't remember what voltage I used but I think it was lower. David Dewey wrote: > > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > But David, a red light district is usually found around railroads! > The 12Bs I've worked on all had acessable points on the breaker, but it > probably isn't important enough to spend modelling or railroading time > trying to chase it down! > S' > David D. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that ONElist hosts some of the largest lists on the Internet? > http://www.ONElist.com > Our scaleable system is the most reliable free e-mail service on the Internet! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2336	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: 12B

I would not put a transformer with a questionable circuit breaker under a layout, on the grounds that it might be a possible fire hazard. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2337	From: John Foley	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: New Building Kits

Hi Folks I was speaking to Lee Johnson [NASG Western VP] and he told me about American Model Builders website and their new S building kits. Prices are TBA but they have some good photos you can check out. Lee also said that American Models Builders are interested in comments about ideas for kits. So click on this. http://www.laserkit.com/ John Foley Eastern VP NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2338	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Re: What about Isopropyl alcohol

David and the S Gang, Isopropanol is indeed a reasonably good solvent which we (our club) use in a number of applications (mainly as a "wetting" agent for ballast bonding). It is safe to use on most plastics (it's even safe to use on expanded polyfoam board); however, you should check it on your specific application in a "safe" location (read hidden) before proceeding. It's also dirt cheap at the drug store (rubbing alcohol, $0.50 per pint). It may not be too good at loosening up old caked on grease (like the spur gear in AF steamers). However, as with all chemicals, there's good news and bad news. The good is above. The bad: it's flammable and toxic if ingested in sufficient quantities (it is used to denature ethanol). You should minimize your exposure to your skin and lungs. More good news: it mixes with water, so it's easy to clean up. Hope this helps. Jay Mellon Crescent City S Gaugers New Orleans, LA > ---------- > From: > David_Horn@...[SMTP:David_Horn@...] > Sent: Monday, April 05, 1999 7:47 AM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] What about Isopropyl alcohol > > From: David_Horn@... > > > > I have a couple of 2 oz bottles of RShack head cleaner marked safe for > plastics that I've been using to clean commutators. It is XX-YY-ZZ > isopropynol (isopropyl alcohol). I don't have the formula numbers with > me, > but was wondering if Isopropyl Alcohol from the drug store would work. I > don't think RShack sells this any more. They now have their Professional > Tape Head cleaner, and it is not safe for plastics. Thanks. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the Member Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2339	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: S Scale Passenger Cars

Looking to get pointed in the right direction on S scale passenger cars in any era. Thank You Andrew Baird Sn42 Nfld Rlwy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2340	From: Dave Heine	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Re: 12B

If you are worried about the built-in circuit breaker, why not put a separate fuse or circuit breaker in series with it? I use an AF 22090 dual 175 watt transformer (two 175 watt transformers in one case) to power some DCC boosters on my Sn3/Sn2 layout. I didn't want to trust the circuit breakers on the secondaries and there is no primary protection on it, so I added some fuses. I supply the transformer from a receptacle that is fused, and added separate secondary fuses. The only thing I don't like about it is the loud hum. Dave Heine Sn3/Sn2 modeler Former AF operator

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2341	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Isopropyl alcohol

Hi Guys&gals; In my quest to build a better lava lamp,I found you can get 90 percent isopropyl from a medical supply house.I'ts is a better solvent than the 70 percent stuff.I'd tell you how to make a super lava lamp but it's too far off topic.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2342	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/6/1999
Subject: Iso . . .propanol

Isopropyl Accohol is your most basic cleaner. I use it for virtually everything, cleaning trains and accessories externally, washing gear assemblies prior to lubrication, and cleaning electrical contact areas such as armatures. You can soak parts in it, clean track with it, everything. Get the 70% stuff at your local pharmacy for 59 cents. Buy some Q-Tips and have fun! Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2343	From: CliffGarz@aol.com	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: AF circus cutouts

thanks to all of you for the info. We have been able to determine they are the real thing. For all the bad things that come out of Ebay sometimes you do find something good. thanks once again Cliff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2344	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Circus Cut-outs

Cliff ( the Lucky), Well, I'm jealous!!! Hmm, maybe you could pick me up a lottery ticket--or give me the winning numbers??<G> S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2345	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light

I think Charles is right about the red bulb, but I can't find any documentation handy right now, I believe it takes a 6-8 volt bulb--although we are working on memory here, and I may be confusing this with an L (horrors!) transformer lamp! I had some detailed notes on these and I can't find them right now. AAAUGH!! anyone want to help me with my taxes??? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2346	From: Heine, David L.	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: S Scale Passenger Trains

Andrew, Passenger cars are currently one of the week areas in S narrow gauge. The former Tomalco wood craftsmen style kits may still be available from Trout Creek. (I believe that's who took them over.) In the past there were several brass cars of D&RGW and RGS prototypes imported by PFM and PSC. You can occasionally find these at times for typical brass prices. Starr made some resin car kits that were also available for awhile under the Tomalco name. The Starr version just included the resin pieces (body, roof, underframe), while the Tomalco version added the detail parts. I believe that at one time V&T also offered some passenger car kits. With luck, you might be able to find some of these at a swap meet. PBL has said that they were working on some plastic injection molded passenger car kits, but who knows when they will be available. However, they have recently started shipping the passenger car trucks in the version without the brake hangers. (The brake hangers are expected shortly.) Also, Bill Wade (BTS) has plans for doing some EBT passenger cars, but I think he wants to do more of the freight cars first. (I'm still waiting for the 3-bay hoppers myself). I've also seen pictures of cars built using a MDC HO roof and underframe with new S scale sides. However, this option would probably be too narrow for Sn42. Hope this helps. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2347	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light

According to the bulb page at the R.F. Giardina parts list page http://members.aol.com/rfgtrains/index.html the 12B is supposed to use a 14 volt bayonet bulb. --- David Dewey <djdewey@...> wrote: > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > I think Charles is right about the red bulb, but I > can't find any > documentation handy right now, I believe it takes a > 6-8 volt bulb--although > we are working on memory here, and I may be > confusing this with an L > (horrors!) transformer lamp! I had some detailed > notes on these and I can't > find them right now. AAAUGH!! anyone want to help me > with my taxes??? > S' > David D. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2348	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light

It was not a Lionel. All this chatter got me to go down to the basement and check again. It was a bayonet base bulb. The red definitely does not turn off the green (I shorted it to be sure). Unfortunately, it is so difficult to get the bulb out I didn't try so didn't check the number (if it has one). Wierd that a ompanion gray sheet metal 100W transformer has a screw base bulb that I know is in the 12-18 volt range. David Dewey wrote: > > I think Charles is right about the red bulb, but I can't find any > documentation handy right now, I believe it takes a 6-8 volt bulb--although > we are working on memory here, and I may be confusing this with an L > (horrors!) transformer lamp! I had some detailed notes on these and I can't > find them right now. AAAUGH!! anyone want to help me with my taxes??? > S' > David D. -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2349	From: John Foley	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Train Shows

Hi Folks I will be at the Great American Train at the Expo Center in Edison NJ, (97 Sunfield Ave.) I'll be there this weekend 10th & 11th from 11 tp 5 both days. So if your near come to the NASG booth #202H and say hello. Also April 13th - 15th I'll be at York PA. at the Valencia Ballroom Train Show 142 N George St. 8AM-6pm Tuesday & Wenesday, 8am to 3pm Thursday. So if your coming a little early to the TCA meet come by and let's talk S. No charge to come in Valencia show. John Foley Eastern VP NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2350	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light

According to the service manual, both green and red sockets take PA12A125 18V small globe clear lamps.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2351	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Cleaners

Hi Guy"S" ; Since you are discussing cleaners, don't forget the ones I sell. Colonel Brassy, for polishing metals and removing rust. Works great. One bottle goes a long way. "General Cleaner" (yes, that is the name of it) Great for removing grime, stains, animal messes in the rug of your train room, and many other uses. This comes in concentrate form. Makes up to 8 gallons. My Wahl clipper oil, for keeping track clean and eliminating electrical arching between your wheels and track. I haven't tried to use it as a cleaner. It probably would remove grime from your track. But I would not want that much oil on the track. For more info , write back. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2352	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: numbers

I beg your indulgence Whilst skimming through one of the wonderful "quality" mags that our co publishes I came upon one of the silly articles. This happened to be about some outfit called the World Canine Freestyle Organisation....I'm not kidding this club promotes costumed owners and matching collared pooches dancing to such tunes as 'the yellow rose of texas" "get happy". This WCFO operates out of New York. What has this got to do with 1) Trains and 2) Modelling in "S"....well nothing other than heir (WCFO) mailing list of members exceeds 8000...yes 8000. It just makes you sit up and think??? 8000 doggie dancers and how many "S" scalers?? What do we need to do better to attract new members?? just food for thought (and not a Purina variety) cheers :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2353	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Red light, green light

>According to the service manual, both green and red sockets take PA12A125 18V >small globe clear lamps. Well, that *should* translate to a 1445 bulb, still available at some auto parts stores. Hmm, so much for my 6-8 volt thinking. I looked through my Greenberg's hardaback AF manual and couldn't find anything, which manual do you have? (did I miss it, or is there a better manual out there???? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2354	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: Re: Iso . . .propanol

Several months ago I tried to remove the adhesive that builds up around the sticker on the Seaboard walking brakeman boxcar. I can't remember whether I used isopropyl alcohol or mineral spirits. But the solvent took off the brown paint on the car. Whenever you start working on a painted car with a solvent, test it first in the least conspicuous place on the car. Regards, Roger Delthony busy-boy wrote: > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > > Isopropyl Accohol is your most basic cleaner. I use it for virtually > everything, cleaning trains and accessories externally, washing gear > assemblies prior to lubrication, and cleaning electrical contact areas such > as armatures. You can soak parts in it, clean track with it, everything. > Get the 70% stuff at your local pharmacy for 59 cents. Buy some Q-Tips and > have fun! > > Enjoy, > Chris Zizzo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jansport Daytripper the perfect pack for short spring and summer > excursions*Key clip keeps keys handy*Front organizer pocket*Weighs1lb* > Capacity 2200 cu in! Members Pay $34.00*Free Shipping in US > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe1 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2355	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/7/1999
Subject: S Helper SW-9 handrails, etc.

Does anyone know if there is an easy and safe way to remove the handrails and grabirons from an S Helper SW-9? I am planning to custom paint mine and the detail parts need to be painted seperately, and then reinstalled. I removed the body to install the dc shorting plug and already managed to break one of the two handrails that had to be unattached from the frame to get the body off. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2356	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Alcohol

About alcohol products. Seems to me sometimes it can dull shiny finish. If the finish is already slightly dull you will not notice the difference. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2357	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: a newcomer's thoughts

Well, I just joined the group last week and I must say I'm enjoying the list immensely. I'm particularly impressed with the thoughtful responses of most of the people posting. And I'm pleased to find list "white noise" (you know, "attaboys," "how ya doing, Willy?" and other personal or off-topic messages) to be virtually non-existent. Having said that, I hope I'm not about to turn up the static. I've been a Flyer aficionado for some times. My interest stems from my first train set, a motley collection of Flyer hand-me-downs that included a 1947 or '48 300 Atlantic, some freight cars and one manual switch. How I got so much enjoyment out of that equipment I'll never know. But I did. Like many baby boomers, I now find myself with the time and money to revisit my Ameircan Flyer memories. Last fall I bought a 300 and a NP boxcar, copies of the pieces I used to play with. Now I've discovered eBay, CLASSIC TOY TRAINS magazine and some local hobby shops. What started out as a sniffle of casual interest in finding my "Rosebud" (to borrow from the Orson Welles film) is now a rapidly spreading disease. Here are some thoughts on my recent re-introduction to S-gauge toy trains. 1) Does the Greenburg Pocket Price Guide mean *anything* in the real world? A local San Francisco hobby shop that faovrs The Dark Side (that would be Lionel) has an eye-opening array of Flyer rolling stock.. all priced WAY beyond the Price Guide. On eBay, Flyer stuff often goes 10 or 20 percent higher than the Price Guide. On the other hand, some stuff goes remarkably low (I just bought a C&NW Baldwin for $115, a price that stunned my Flyer buddy in Wisconsin). The same friend (who manages a hobby store in Milwaukee, Wisconsin) tells me Flyer has become a "hot" collectable in the past few years. I tell him, "Of course, that's because I just started buying Flyer, so the prices HAD to shoot up!" But is he right? Has Flyer won new fans, new followers? Or are true Flyer die-hards suffering at the hands of collectors who smell the next big thing? I produce the TRAINS ON LOCATION railroad videos for Kalmbach Publishing. When I asked a friend at KPC when I can expect to see the second volume of Greenberg's AF book (the big one, not the Pocket Guide) he told me, "Don't hold your breath. The AF book sells only a trickle compared to its Lionel counterpart." My God, more than 30 years alter I'm STILL fighting an uphill battle with the three-rail Goliath. And I'd since discovered that LTI now re-issues some Flyer rolling stock! As Homer Simpson would say, "Why do you mock me, O Lord?" Paul Schneider San Francisco, CA _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2358	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: SW 9 handrails

Good luck Bill. I had an undec version and they came out with a tug. Only one broke although I since lost one of the handrails up to the cab so I'm planning on ordering some replacements from SHS. cheers Alex Binkley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2359	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Red Light, Green Light . . . EZ as 1-2-3

Put a voltmeter on the terminals for the red bulb's socket. Short the transformer so the breaker pops. Read the voltage. If it reads 6-8 volts, you've got the wrong bulb in there, change it. If it reads around 15 volts, your bulb is blown, change it. If it reads 0 volts, there is a break in the wire or in one of the connections leading to the bulb. Tracing that out can't take more than five minutes. Operating the transformer with its principal safety feature disabled is irresponsible. Get in there and fix it. This thread is starting to sound like that humor piece on "how many mail list members does it take to change a light bulb?". Enjoy, Chris Zizzo P.S.- Who is going to York? Wanna get together for coffee and a funnel cake?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2360	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Cleaning

Regarding cleaning the darkened adhesive from the Walking Brakeman car. I used WD-40 on a Q-tip with excellent results.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2361	From: Dennis Back	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Great new 'S' book

I just received my copy of the new AF book "Famous American Flyer Trains" by Paul Nelson. It is SUPER. Where the Greenberg books give you straight forward info (how does it look/what's it worth), this book goes into the how's & why's of the AF products (lots of background info) which I find fascinating. Being an accessory "nut", I really appreciate the 40 pages on accessories. Anybody have the book? Any comments about it? BTW....I'm am NOT connected with the book or the publisher in any way. Just wanted to share my enthusiasm. Dennis Miami, Fl. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2362	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Dakota Southern downsizing.

In the MPSM Newsletter #4 April 1994 there was a short article with photographs of the Dakota Southern SD9s. The following from the MNrail list may be of interest to some: At a meeting with shippers last week Dakota Southern Railway operators of the former Milwaukee trackge from Mitchell, South Dakota west to Kadoka, SD announced that they will be scaling back operations to a switching only operation at Mitchell. Service will be ending on 180 (+ or -) mile line shortly. Actually service was never restored on the approx. 50 mile segment between Murdo and Kadoka after washouts and slides severed the line near Stamford, SD in 1997. Railroad owners brothers Alex and Dick Huff sited lack of workable grain rates on BNSF (DSRC's only connection at Mitchell) and the effect of new 100 car unit train loading "mega-elevators" as major factors in the decision to reduce operations. It is expected that train operations West of the Missouri River (Chamberlain, SD) will be over shortly, as soon as grain empties at Reliance and Kennebec can be gathered up and brought back to Chamberlain. Clean up trains will likely be operated between Chamberlain and Mitchell on a sporadic basis well into summer. DSRC serves a large box plant (Universal Packaging) on the West side of Mitchell (75 to 100 cars monthly) and switcing operations to this plant will continue. DSRC began operations between Mitchell and Chamberlain (taking over from BN) in 1987, and service was extended to Kadoka in 1988 (more than eight years after the last Milw train ran). KW note: DSRC have 2 GE 70 tonners, an Alco S3, and C420, 2 GP9s and 2 SD9s + a stuffed DDA40x - If they are to become a terminal switching road I expect some of the larger road power will be disposed of. -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2363	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Re: Great new 'S' book

I've heard rumors about this book as well. Its likened to All Aboard book for L. It must be special ordered thru Borders or Amazon, and is $41.95. Another fantastic book is A.C. Gilberts Heritage. Its available thru the TCA Museum. Awesome coverage of whats rare with photos of some items many have never seen. Facinating history, and a great year by year reference of what was made.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2364	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Easy bulb removal

_______________________________________________________________________________ ...................................................................... Unfortunately, it is >so difficult to get the bulb out I didn't try so didn't check the number >(if it has one). With regard to transformer bulbs as well as those in the highway flasher and floodlight towers: These are easily inserted and removed with a short length of tubing forced over the bulb. It grips a full 360 degrees. I have three different sizes (inside diameters) for the various bulbs (Small globe, large and bayonet style.) It also helps to use some electrical contact cleaner before reinserting a new bulb. It is often a good idea to lubricate the side of the base as well. If you fight the friction of corrosion, the bulb may break. BTW Everyone is correct, the green bulb stays lit when the red comes on to indicate a short. You should be able to test the bulb by switching red and green if one of them works. While on the subject of transformers, never trust the "Has new cord" until you open the unit and see that it has been replaced by soldering to the original connectors. I purchased a 19B from a reputable dealer but upon opening found a splice to a short piece of old power cord with cracked insulation. This is particularly dangerous with metal case transformers. I'm still trying to find where I wrote about all of this stuff so Paul can post it. --- Nick Colleran

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2365	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Re: Easy bulb removal

Nick has a very good point regarding replaced cords! I have found that too, although the repairs I was looking at were older 'who knows who dunnit' repairs. Also make certain the replaced cord is the correct gauge. Neat trick, the tubing! Thanks! I have been known to put a touch of anti-sieze on bulb threads. The main problem with this stuff is it finds it's way onto anything!! Even if you don't think you have any on your hands! My big comlaint is with the quality of bulbs today. I put a new bulb in on a hard to reach switch, and the next day it's dead! Of course this doesn't happen to the stuff that's easy to get to, those bulbs go on forever! This seems to be true of house bulbs now too! S' David D. PS, Hope you find those notes Nick, will make a good FAQ answer.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2366	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: bulbs

Speaking of bulbs, it is very irritating that a lot of the modern bulbs sold as 1449 replacements are too tall and won't fit in an AF boiler front. Does anyone know who has bulbs the right height cheap? Tom J

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2367	From: Joe Visintine	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: S scale decals in GM&O

Modelers I am thinking about having decals made for GM&O rolling stock including work Equipment and caboose. The decals will be available in white or black. These are the same decals sold by Trent Johnson, of the GM&O Historical Society, in HO and N scale. And sold in O scale by Gerald Doran. No cost factors have been explored as of yet, This is just a feeler to the group to see how much interest exist for these decals in S scale If interested please respond via S-Trains, GM&O list or to Joe Visintine Salinas Ca. h2oman@... Joe Visintine Salinas Ca. (831)633-3066 h2oman@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2368	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/8/1999
Subject: Re: Red Light, Green Light . . . EZ as 1-2-3

busy-boy wrote: > If it reads 6-8 volts, you've got the wrong bulb in there, change it. > If it reads around 15 volts, your bulb is blown, change it. > If it reads 0 volts, there is a break in the wire or in one of the > connections leading to the bulb. > Just one final question. What does it read when it is operating properly? -- Dale Smith Pacifica, California

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2369	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: How many bulb-changers does it take . . .

Dale Smith wrote re: >> If it reads 6-8 volts, you've got the wrong bulb in there, change it. >> If it reads around 15 volts, your bulb is blown, change it. >> If it reads 0 volts, there is a break in the wire or in one of the >> connections leading to the bulb. >Just one final question. What does it read when it is operating properly? Dale: If it is a 6 to 8 volt circuit, reading across a correctly operaing bulb will show a voltage of 6 to 8 volts minus a small voltage drop for the resistance of the filament creating a load on the circuit. You are measuring in parallel with the bulb. If it is a 15-18 volt circuit it will read 15 to 18 volts minus the nearly insignificant drop. If it reads the same as when the bulb is bad, then how do you know when to change the bulb? When it's not lit any more. Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1,343 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed; 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently; 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs; 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing lightbulbs; 53 to flame the spell checkers; 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames; 6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb"; another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive; 156 to write to the list administrator about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list; 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take this email exchange to litebulb-l; 203 to demand that cross posting to grammar-l, spelling-l and illuminati-l about changing light bulbs be stopped; 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this mail list; 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty; 27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs; 14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and to post the corrected URL's; 3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list; 33 to link all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers and then add "Me too"; 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy; 19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three"; 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ; 44 to ask what is "FAQ"; 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago on Usenet?" 143 to ask "what's Usenet?" Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2370	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Famous American Flyer Trains

I am sorry to say that I don't have the book at either of my bookstores. Borders has it: http://search.borders.com/fcgi-bin/db2www/search/search.d2w/Details?&mediaType=Book&prodID=25463642 (maybe it's time for a third bookstore?) Also you can buy it from Scenery Unlimited http://trainweb.com/sgaugian/ Telephone (708)366-1973

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2371	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Adhesive Cleaners

Check out the variety of citrus based cleaners. They work outstandingly well on adhesives. Perhaps they'll work on other train related cleaning projects as well. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/marchweb.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2372	From: Gale Hall	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: whoa!!!!

I think there may be a fault in some of this circuit testing.....if you have a wire from A to B and it has a bulb in it and the bulb is good and you are in parallel testing for voltage from A to B the meter won't register. ....it is the same wire.......If the bulb is burned out or gone the meter will register the voltage possible in the A to B circuit. You can test from A to ground or B to ground and the bulb out and find the hot side.....you can have the bulb in and test A to ground or B to ground and the voltage will register. Like checking fuses with a meter the voltage won't register unless the fuse is blown. Won't carry some of the practices listed too far, some one will get hurt if you test in the primary side the same way....just cause it won't register doesn't mean it isn't there. And check for stray circuits too you could have wires touching cases or baseplates whatever... Gale Hall _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2373	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Re: whoa!!!!

--- Gale Hall <gale_hall@...> wrote: > > I think there may be a fault in some of this circuit > testing.....if you have a wire from A to B and it > has a bulb in it and the bulb is good and you are in > parallel testing for voltage from A to B the meter > won't register. ....it is the same wire.... I beg to differ with you on this. The light bulb is a load and has resistance, not like a fuse. There should definitely be a voltage drop, measurable by a meter, no matter whether the bulb is good or bad. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2374	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: command control and american flyer?

i'm a multi-gauge operator,but heart and numbers are solidly A.C. Gilbert. i have a few L-word command control locos,and the cc handset and module;i really enjoy the one-touch walkaround style of the system.it can be used with any traditional trains, and i'm told that e-units cycle great at the higher voltage settings of cc. has anyone tried it with flyer? and,most importantly,do the horns and whistles work? we don't have a layout currently because we're out of room,but i want to consider a cc installation for my future set up. any help here? - john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2375	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: S Spree in Dayton

I am hoping to be able to attend the S Spree in Dayton, Ohio at the end of the month. I am considering taking the AMTRAK from St. Paul to Chicago on the Thursday before (the schedule has the Empire Builder arriving in Chicago at 4:00PM). I would then need to grab the return train leaving Chicago at 2:15PM on the Sunday after. I was wondering if there were any Chicago area (or Milwaukee area, for that matter - I could get off and on the train there as well) S gaugers with whom I might grab a ride to Dayton on Friday morning and the return trip on Saturday or Sunday. I would certainly pick up a fair share of expenses for the priviledge. There is a chance that another Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop member might want to join us on the trip. If this might work for someone, please let me know by email at sguagemn@.... Thanks, Walt Jopke

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2376	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: S Spree Revisited

Sorry about that, folks. I don't know how to spell "gauge". My email address is sgaugemn@.... Walt Jopke

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2377	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Re: Famous American Flyer Trains

I will setup a Borders bookstore this weekend. I want to buy a copy too.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2378	From: FANN, ROBERT	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Repeat Call for Modules

> Group, > > The Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop, host club for the 1999 NASG > National Convention in St. Paul, Minnesota, > (http://www.trainweb.com/nasg1999/), needs to know NOW who wants to bring > modular, or other portable, layouts to be exhibited at the convention this > July. We will make room for a limited number on a first-come/first-served > basis. In order to determine how many we can accommodate, I will need to > know : > How much floor space does your layout occupy? Can it be set up in linear fashion, point-to-point (possibly against a wall), or does it need to close the loop to be functional? (We would like to have at least one closed-loop layout that manufacturers could use for showing off new products.) Is it free-standing or does it need supporting tables? Is it scale, hirail or Flyer? (In the interest of balance...). Is it "finished" with scenery and structures? Etc. > Please contact me DIRECTLY at (work) fannr@... or (home) > fann@.... Or both. > > Thanks, > > Bob Fann > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2379	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Paul Nelson's book

I got the new Flyer book when I renewed my subscription to S Gaugian. It is refreshing to have something written from a perspective other than an "investors guide". New photos and something other than a numerical listing are good points as well. I was afraid it would be another rehash and was pleasantly surprised when it wasn't. It's worth the price. --- Nick Colleran _______________________________________________________________________________ > >Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:38:48 -0700 (PDT) > From: Dennis Back <backden@...> >Subject: Great new 'S' book > >I just received my copy of the new AF book "Famous >American Flyer Trains" by Paul Nelson. It is SUPER. >Where the Greenberg books give you straight forward >info (how does it look/what's it worth), this book >goes into the how's & why's of the AF products (lots >of background info) which I find fascinating. Being an >accessory "nut", I really appreciate the 40 pages on >accessories. > >Anybody have the book? Any comments about it? > >BTW....I'm am NOT connected with the book or the >publisher in any way. Just wanted to share my >enthusiasm. > >Dennis >Miami, Fl.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2380	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Bachman Conversions

Hello All, Has anyone thought about converting the new Bachmann On30 trainsets to S? The Passenger cars look like they might be the right size. Perhaps the 2-6-0 could be converted as well. Has anyone done this? Phil Randall ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2381	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: converting the new Bachmann On30 trainsets to S

Phil Randall asked about converting the On30 trainset to S. Billy Wade ran an article full of ideas on doing this on page 23 of the Oct/Nov 1998 issue of S/Sn3 Modeling Guide.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2382	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/10/1999
Subject: Re: Whoa!

Gale Hall, whose e-mail needs to be reconfigured to support word-wrap, wrote: >I think there may be a fault in some of this circuit testing.....if you have a wire from A to B and >it has a bulb in it and the bulb is good and you are in parallel testing for voltage from A to B >the meter won't register. ....it is the same wire.......If the bulb is burned out or gone the meter >will register the voltage possible in the A to B circuit. >Etc., etc. Gale: Rather than propose all this theory, why don't you get out your Fluke voltmeter and give it a try? I think that you are going to be surprised about some of your assumptions. Voltage in a parallel circuit is more or less constant at every point of load. If what you said was correct, about there being no measurable voltage across the terminals of a working bulb, then other bulbs wired in parallel with it would not light . . . yet, they do. Loads in a parallel circuit, drawing the current they need, divide up the available current in proportion to their resistance or reactance (impedance). Voltage of the circuit remains (theoretically, at least) constant. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2383	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/9/1999
Subject: Re: S scale decals in GM&O

In message <199904090211.TAA17159@...>, Joe Visintine <h2oman@...> writes >From: "Joe Visintine" <h2oman@...> > >Modelers >I am thinking about having decals made for GM&O rolling stock >including work Equipment and caboose. >The decals will be available in white or black. >These are the same decals sold by Trent Johnson, of the GM&O >Historical Society, in HO and N scale. And sold in O scale by Gerald >Doran. >No cost factors have been explored as of yet, This is just a feeler to >the group to see how much interest exist for these decals in S scale >If interested please respond via S-Trains, GM&O list or to > >Joe Visintine >Salinas Ca. >h2oman@... > Hi Joe I'd be interested in one set - especially if the earlier cars were covered. -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2384	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/10/1999
Subject: NFld Rly S Scale Passenger Cars

In message <006801be808b$5edffe60$906ca8d8@baracing>, Andrew Baird <baracing@...> writes >From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > >Looking to get pointed in the right direction on S scale passenger cars in >any era. >Thank You >Andrew Baird >Sn42 >Nfld Rlwy The best reference I know for Nfld Rly is Chapter 9 in Pat Dorin's book 'The Canadian National Railways' Story' quite a good detailed description of the passenger cars - I suspect the American Models Heavyweight and lightweight passenger cars could be cut down / kit bashed quite easily into some 'Newfie' . There is also a good appendix (circa 1972) listing all of the Newfie freight stock in the same book. The AM GP9 arrived today - thanks Customs had opened the package and done their usual bad repackaging - but at least they didn't damage anything - �27.00 ish duty, VAT etc on the geep - not too bad. Let me know when the G8/12 arrives. Best regards -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2385	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/10/1999
Subject: Back on

Hi Modernists: About two weeks ago my computer flamed out (the partitions disappeared) along with all my e-mails, background files etc. Not a happy time. So I have been reconstructing the beast in the meantime. I'm sending this as a test to see if I got the names typed in right. If there's no bugs, I will send you a note about some S trains that Ron Miller has for sale. Ron is the r e name I sent along before because I couldn't find his full name on the e-mail message. anyway be talking at ya'

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2386	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 4/10/1999
Subject: Re: Back on

Since Alex provided me with the complete modern modelers list I should take this opportunity to ask you to remove my name from the modern modelers group. I got on the list hoping to keep up with any and all S scale developments but there is enought going on now - what with P64 and the scale side of S-trains - that I think in the interest of bandwidth and time I should be dropped. See you on the other lists! Thanks, Art Armstrong aarmstro@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2387	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/10/1999
Subject: Re: Bachman Conversions

In message <19990409.141305.8718.3.TTscale@...>, Phil A Randall <ttscale@...> writes >From: Phil A Randall <ttscale@...> > >Hello All, > >Has anyone thought about converting the new Bachmann On30 trainsets to S? > The Passenger cars look like they might be the right size. Perhaps the >2-6-0 could be converted as well. Has anyone done this? > >Phil Randall > There has been discussion on the list about this in the past - Dave Heine is your man for this. I have a 2-6-0 which I've pulled apart with the intention of converting to a S scale standard gauge 0-6-0. Stopped work on it at present too busy with a S3 project. The big bugbear about the loco is that the boiler scales out at 6ft diam a bit big. Below is an article I wrote for a ASSC Newsletter - hope it helps. Bachman On2� mogul suitable for S scale? The new Bachman On2� C&S mogul has created a lot of interest on the S- trains Email discussion group, the following notes are from that list - has anybody considered doing a S standard gauge conversion of the model? In case you hadn�t realised an On3 model is about the same size as an S standard gauge model, thus why not widen the gauge a little bit more, rebuilt the cab, replace some of the fittings with S scale fittings and have yourself a cheap S scale standard gauge steam locomotive. A very good review of the model will be found in the January 1999 Model Railroader pages 16 & 32. The set consists of three passenger cars and a C&S 2-6-0, a circle of track + 110V transformer. Caboose Hobbies are advertising the set @ $159.97 plus shipping. Grandt Line have reportedly made a conversion kit of false side frames and longer axles to convert to convert the locomotive from 16.5 mm to true On3 gauge. As yet the Bachman On2� set is not available in UK models shops, but it will be soon. The locomotive and passenger cars will be available in Colorado & Southern, Pennsylvania RR and �Wonderland Express� paint schemes. There are rumours of a 2-8-0 being the next model in this range. The vital statistics of the model 2-6-0 locomotive in S scale dimensions are: Pilot wheel diameter - 35" Driver diameter - 53" Driver Spacing 1&2 - 77", 2&3 - 74" Total Driver Wheelbase - 12'-7" Tender wheel diameter - 35" Truck wheelbase - 5'-10" Distance between truck centres - 11'-9" Boiler Diam - 5� 11" By way of comparison, I enclose reduced scale drawings of C&S #22 at On2� against S scale drawings of a NYC 2-6-0 #798, Green Bay & Western 2-6-0 #56, Sylvania Central 4-6-0 # 103, and Texas Pacific 2-6-0 #252. The only dimension that gives me a any real concern is the boiler diam, a little fat in relationship to the driving wheel diameter - but not too much. Billy Wade in his review (S / Sn3 Modelling Guide Oct/Nov 98) of the engine notes that the clearance between slide valves to the cylinder is 1.18" which may prove to be tight for S standard gauge. However as the whole body is plastic, alteration work should not prove too difficult. The On2� tender scale out at 9�9" wide by 26� long - it could be cut down, to 21ft or so but it is not essential. The S scale dimensions of the passenger cars are: Car width - 10' Truck wheelbase - 6' Wheel diameter - 30" End doors - 8' high, 29" wide Body - 40', over buffers 47'4" The cars are the right width for an S scale standard gauge car but are a little high. From the quick checking I did, a lot of standard gauge cars had sides about 8' high, and are about 10' wide. So the cars might be able to be cut down in height (or new sides made) for standard gauge. The length would make the car a shortie in standard gauge. Splicing two cars together would be an option, it would allow the end platforms to be of a proper length. However as the MR review notes, compromises have been made with the passenger cars, the windows have compressed in width, a lengthened car will have too many windows. Turning the passenger cars into roadside diners, MoW shacks etc would probably satisfy the need to not throw them away!! KW. -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2388	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 4/10/1999
Subject: Central Hobby Supply

I wrote to Central Hobby Supply in Syracuse expressing my interest in a B&O or Pennsy round roof boxcar. I received a letter today from Richard D. Dorsino, V.P. thanking me for my interest. He states the following. Thank you for your interest in our WEST SHORE LINE of resin kits. We have produced several resin kits in "S" scale and are considering re-running them, and possibly producing some new ones. At this time the plans are well in the future and will depend on a series of events. Therefore, we will put you on our mailing list so that you will be informed when and if our "S" scale production resumes. Some of the cars contemplated are: NYC cvd hopper PRR gra gon PRR standard flat NYC lot 549G gon ERIE Dunmore cvd hopper EL Dunmore cvd hopper CR Dunmore cvd hopper PRR x31a single and double door boxcar RDG ob boxcar LV boxcar No mention of PRR or B&O wagontops! Tell 'em what you are interested in buying guys. Central Hobby Supply 102 Walter Drive Syracuse, NY 13206 FAX 315-437-3281 phone 315-437-6630 BTW there was an article in Mainline Modeler last year about scratchbuilding a B&O wagontop. It was missing a few dimensions. Does anybody know where there is a prototype to snag a few dimensions from? Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/marchweb.htm ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2389	From: Hilary Smith	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Stripping Paint from Lionel CR 9035

Gentlepersons: A friend of mine gave me a Lionel double-door boxcar body lettered for CONRAIL as CR 9035. Dimensionally, it eyeballs as being identical to a PRS 1937 AAR 40 footer. Not knowing much about the "L" company products, I was wondering if someone out there in "S"yber space would care to pass along any first-hand experience or conventional wisdom about stripping off the paint from this rugged little guy. Thanks for whatever you care to pass along, Hilary Smith Northern Virginia

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2390	From: PatnDave	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Sunrise Enterprises

Does anybody have a current address for Sunrise Enterprises? I first learned of them over two years ago in the FEB./MARCH 1997 issue of S/Sn3 Modeling Guide where a small photo and description of their S scale parts first appeared. (I haven't seen an ad since) At that time I wrote them in support of S scale (mentioning our SMG mag) and requested further information on availability of any other S parts and suggestions for more new parts and as always, I included a SASE. I never did receive an answer so I just dusted them off as, hey, sometimes that's just the way it is. Then, quite sometime later, I saw their (SE) advertisement in a MR mag for the same, and of course more, parts for HO scale but this address was different except that it still had the same zip code as the address I used. Since then, I would wonder now and again, did I happen to catch them in a move and they never got my letter? Had they added to the S scale parts list ( but don't advertise?) or did they dump uS? Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2391	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Akron/Dover Ohio Action April 16 to 18

I'm going to be in Dover, Ohio April 16th, 17th and 18th visiting the Warther Museum. Does anyone know of any activities in the area then? Akron is about a half hour north. Pete Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2392	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: Sunrise Enterprises

In message <01be841b$40f16d60$0100007f@localhost>, PatnDave <patndave@...> writes >From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...> > >Does anybody have a current address for Sunrise Enterprises? I first learned >of them over two years ago in the FEB./MARCH 1997 issue of S/Sn3 Modeling >Guide where a small photo and description of their S scale parts first >appeared. (I haven't seen an ad since) or did they dump uS? >Dave Hi Dave I hope they havn't dumped S, their products were good, very crisply cast WM with no or little flash. I ordered parts from: Railroad Hobbies 119 Vernon St Roseville CA 95678 USA They have/had a WWW site listing their products but I don't have the URL anymore. -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2393	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Sunrise Enterprises

Looky here !!!! http://www.psln.com/sunrise/ :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2394	From: Rick Carlsen	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Logging trucks??

I am looking for "disconnnected logging trucks" in S-gauge for use with American Flyer trains and track. These are the trucks (with bunks to hold logs) that have a couper on both ends so they make up a compact string when empty. (The only connection when loaded is through the log load.) A picture of these trucks appears on page 210 of The Complete Book of MODEL RAILROADING by David Sutton, with the statement that some were made by Kadee in the past. I assume the Kadee trucks were made only for HO, but I would buy some if they are available. If I cannot find them, I'll make my own. Does anyone have a picture or a plan?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2395	From: Dave Heine	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: Logging trucks??

The Kadee disconnects are HO. They could be easily modified for Sn3 if desired, but S would require new bolsters, etc. Rio Grande Models makes an Sn3 version of a Hercules disconnect truck. I built some years ago. Again they would require a new bolster, wheelsets, coupler arrangement, etc. for hi-rail S. You could probably make one it you could find an archbar truck that could take hi-rail wheels. You would need to make the coupler mounts and the bunks. Maybe there is an On3 version that could be usable. On3 is a little narrower than S. Sometimes they did put a pole between the trucks which was called a rooster. I've seen some pictures both ways. I know I have seen plans published in the logging oriented magazines over the years, but where? Underground Railway Press will have some plans you can purchase. Sorry, I can't help more. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2396	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: Sunrise Enterprises

> Subject: [S-Trains] Sunrise Enterprises > From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...> > > Does anybody have a current address for Sunrise Enterprises? Try http://www.psln.com/sunrise/sres.html My hobby shop has previously ordered their parts though Walthers. Stan Stokrocki http://www.pslm.com/sunrise/sres.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2397	From: PatnDave	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: S scale items For Sale

As authorized by our Webmaster S scale Brass/Items For Sale: 1. OMI 4005/S NASG ACF Insulated High Pressure Tank Car u/p, nib_____________________________$275 2. RRM NYC Bay Window Caboose by OMI 4018 f/p Jade Green, n/l, nib_________________________$265 3. SWM C6 PRR N-8 Caboose c/p PC Green, lettered & Weathered by Bill Lane, Nice!___________________$275 4. SWM C1 B&O I-12 Wagon Top Caboose u/p, nib_____________________________________$250 5. SS Models EMD GP-7 Freight Version u/p, tro _____________________________________$200 ---OTHER GOOD STUFF: 6. 1, AM (S-DesignS) 40' WP boxcar w/orange feather_Kit____$35 7. 1, LVM-21 Reading Water Tower Kit___________________$20 8. 1, LVM-22 300 Ton Concrete Coaling Station Kit__________$20 9. 1, Lindberg boxed set of 4 military tanks and 2, individual Lindberg Patton tank kits all for______________$25 Off-line e-mail for more details and shipping Dave, patndave@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2398	From: John Foley	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: N.J. International

Hi Folks Just home from doing the Great American Train show at Edition NJ. While at the show the folks from NJ Internation came by the NASG table. They are interested in doing some of their signels and crossings in S Scale. I looked at the H.O. and O scale signels on display. They are very well done. So they would like us S gaugers to look over their Signels on their and email them with our thoughts. Check it out at Http://www.NJinternational.com John Foley NASG Eastern VP

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2399	From: david s garber	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: unsubscribe

going to york

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2400	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: New Building Kits

It's about time, I wonder if they bought a 3rd laser cutter. When they did their clinic at NMRA last July in KC, they brought down the house with their work, but they said the two machines they had were going 24H7D and they barely had room for anything other than HO and N. Hmmm. It is time we get in there and grab root and growl. John Foley wrote: > From: John Foley <foley164@...> > > Hi Folks > I was speaking to Lee Johnson [NASG Western VP] and he told me > about American Model Builders website and their new S building kits. > Prices are TBA but they have some good photos you can check out. Lee also > said that American Models Builders are interested in comments about ideas > for kits. So click on this. > > http://www.laserkit.com/ > > John Foley > Eastern VP NASG > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Are you hogging all the fun? > http://www.ONElist.com > Friends tell friends about ONElist! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2401	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: Thinning Brass collection

The following came from Ron Miller and should interest some on the list. cheers Alex Binkley wrote: > Remsjmus@... wrote: > > > > Hi Alex I have a few brass pieces I would like to sell. If you could pass > > it along to all the members I would greatly appreciate it. Below find a list > > of what is for sale: > > > > OVERLAND MODELS > > NE STEEL CABOOSE LV > > SINGLE END WINDOWS om1-1604 S SCALE > > $225 or best offer > > > > FRISCO WIDE VISION CABOOSE > > omi-4007 S SCALE > > $225 or best offer > > > > GP38-2 LOW HOOD > > ANTI CLIMBER SMALL DYNAMIC BRAKES > > omi1784 S SCALE > > $550 or best offer > > > > SOUTH WIND MODELS > > SCALE TEST CAR > > swm-m1-black > > $125 or best offer > > > > RIVER RAISIN > > 65' WELL HOLE FLAT CAR > > gray primer finish > > roller bearing trucks > > $225 or best offer > > > > All items new and boxed, Deisel was test run. Thank you for your time > > -- > Alex Binkley, > Hammond, Ontario, Canada

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2402	From: h2oman@redshift.com	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: I need the shaft !

Now that I have your attention.... I am installing a can motor in an American Flyer 283 and am looking for a bad motor armature that I can cut the shaft off of. I just can't bring myself to cut a good one, besides I may need it if I flub this installation. So if any one has one in their junk box please contact me Thanks Joe Visintine h2oman@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2403	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Spring Spree

Hi: I'm wondering if anyone on the modern is going to the Spring Spree and would report back on any modern locos, cars, buildings or other objects present, proposed, talked about, hinted at etc. This would be especially good for those of us who are geographically challenged. cheers Alex Binkley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2404	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Ron Richards please

Sorry to use the bandwidth but don't have a working e-mail address for Ron Richards so Don if you are out there, would love to hear from you. cheers Alex Binkley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2405	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: Sunrise Enterprises

Try P.O. Box 172, Doyle, CA 96109 (530) 827-2178 - Fax (530) 827-2658 which I just got from their website. The website is http://www.psln.com/sunrise/sres.html PatnDave wrote: > > From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...> > > Does anybody have a current address for Sunrise Enterprises? I first learned > of them over two years ago in the FEB./MARCH 1997 issue of S/Sn3 Modeling > Guide where a small photo and description of their S scale parts first > appeared. (I haven't seen an ad since) At that time I wrote them in support > of S scale (mentioning our SMG mag) and requested further information on > availability of any other S parts and suggestions for more new parts and as > always, I included a SASE. I never did receive an answer so I just dusted > them off as, hey, sometimes that's just the way it is. Then, quite sometime > later, I saw their (SE) advertisement in a MR mag for the same, and of > course more, parts for HO scale but this address was different except that > it still had the same zip code as the address I used. Since then, I would > wonder now and again, did I happen to catch them in a move and they never > got my letter? Had they added to the S scale parts list ( but don't > advertise?) > or did they dump uS? > Dave > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the Member Center link from the menu bar on the left. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2406	From: PatnDave	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Sunrise

A big SUNNY thank you to you guys in the know about Sunrise Enterprises! They sure have a nice web page don't they? Thanks again guys! Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2407	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: 1449 bulbs

In a message dated 4/9/99 4:34:04 AM, you wrote: <<Speaking of bulbs, it is very irritating that a lot of the modern bulbs sold as 1449 replacements are too tall and won't fit in an AF boiler front. Does anyone know who has bulbs the right height cheap? >> Foreign bulbs have an extra thread.....that's why they're too tall! We carry ONLY USA-made 1449 bulbs.....they fit fine. I won't carry foreign 1449s, as long as the USA ones are available. Unfortunately, they are no longer manufactured in US, to my knowledge, so when existing stock runs out, we're all in trouble! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2408	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: New ACG books

In a message dated 4/9/99 4:34:04 AM, you wrote: <<I've heard rumors about this book as well. Its likened to All Aboard book for L. It must be special ordered thru Borders or Amazon, and is $41.95. Another fantastic book is A.C. Gilberts Heritage. Its available thru the TCA Museum. >> For the benefit of all our regular customers....we carry both books as well. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 66-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 48 page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2409	From: Bill Banta	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: I need the shaft !

Why don't you just buy a same size diameter steel rod? Most hobby stores stock such items as do hardware stores...... b. banta

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2410	From: Bill Banta	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: New Building Kits

Bill Banta wrote: > > Your note has the tone that no one is manufacturing S scale structure > kits. Hmmm. 50% of our line of kits and parts are all S scale. And we've > been in business for almost 10 years. Most of our laser kits have been > on the market for 5 of those years. Did we fall through the cracks? > > www.divisionpoint.com > > banta modelworks > The Building & Structure Co, > Tomalco Track > > Laser kits, white metal parts, Scale flex track and switches..... > > thanks, > > b. banta

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2411	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Sunrise Enterprises

Hey all, FYI, Sunrise Enterprises parts and a few photos of some parts are listed on the Proto:64 Detail page at http://www.trainweb.org/proto64/parts/index.htm and there's a link to their web site as well. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Richard Snook wrote: > > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > > Looky here !!!! http://www.psln.com/sunrise/ :-)) Richard > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2412	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/11/1999
Subject: Re: NFld Rly S Scale Passenger Cars

There was also a pretty nice article on the NRR in the July/August 1990 issue of Canadian Railway Modeler. The same magazine had an article on modeling an NF110 in the August/September 1992 issue with a correction in the Nov-Dec. 1992 issue -- Keith Thompson in Seattle kelvin white wrote: > > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> > > In message <006801be808b$5edffe60$906ca8d8@baracing>, Andrew Baird > <baracing@...> writes > >From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > > > >Looking to get pointed in the right direction on S scale passenger cars in > >any era. > >Thank You > >Andrew Baird > >Sn42 > >Nfld Rlwy > > The best reference I know for Nfld Rly is Chapter 9 in Pat Dorin's book > 'The Canadian National Railways' Story' quite a good detailed > description of the passenger cars - I suspect the American Models > Heavyweight and lightweight passenger cars could be cut down / kit > bashed quite easily into some 'Newfie' . There is also a good appendix > (circa 1972) listing all of the Newfie freight stock in the same book. > SNIP > Kelvin White > Oxford England > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2413	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: for sale

> Bill McClung has a 100 ton R&W double track Overland sanding tower @ > $130.00. > He's at Theinyo22@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2414	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Re: Spring Spree

Alex, I will be attending the Spring Spree and will attempt to make a report. I believe they are going to have a model contest and I am going to enter two scratch built modern cars. Are any other modern list members going to attend? If so stop by my table and say hello. Take care, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2415	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: AMB kits

The kits look great on the web page especially the Springfield depot, Dill's market and the barn but they have no prices. are they actually in production? cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2416	From: softmoods@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: SUNRISE ENTERPRISES

HI ALL, WILL HAVE LIMITED NUMBER OF PARTS AT THE SPRING SPREE IN TOW (2) WEEKS. SEE THEM AT WESTERN CAR SHOPS AND TRACKSIDE HOBBIES. SOME PARTS INSTALLED ON AMERICAN MODELS GP-35. LOOKS NICE. ROBERT SHERWOOD, WESTERN CAR SHOPS/TRACKSIDE HOBBIES

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2417	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: The red light is lit.

Calm down, I mean on my 12B transformer. I removed and disassembled the circuit breaker. In the process I discovered the second set of points - - the set that closes when there's a short and illuminates the left side (red) bulb. Whereas the first set of points is very visible with only the top-case removed and quite typical in design (two small metal discs opposite each other, much like automotive ignition points for those who remember them), the second set is more hidden towards the center of the transformer and rather unusual in design. It is merely a tab of the upper plate bent down toward the plate below it. When the CB is activated, the tip of that tab makes contact with the plate beneath it (while at the same time the first set of points delivering power the terminals are separated). To clean them doesn't require removal of the CB, but knowing what to look for and where always helps. Power on, create a short, and viola, red light! And it stays lit as long as there's current across the short (i.e. if the short involves a variable voltage terminal, then if you turn the throttle down to zero the light goes out, increase the throttle/voltage and it comes back). The CB throws crisply, and resets with a nice clean "ping". Thanks to everyone again for your help.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2418	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: New AF Parts List Available

An all new listing of over 1,200 original and reproduction parts for American Flyer trains is now available. We have more than 85,000 parts in stock, with over 180 part lines now available at special quantity discount pricing. For FREE copies of both our regular and quantity parts listings, please send a double-stamped, self-addressed, busines-sized envelope to: Joe's Train Repair 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Thank you for the bandwidth. Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2419	From: John Foley	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: NJ's Address's

Hi Folks I took for granted that that NJ would have their address's and phone numbers on their website. Sorry about that. So their address's are, Email Signals@NJinternational>com Street Address NJ International, Inc. P.O. Box 99 East Norwich, NY 11732 Phone 516 433-8720 516 433-4777 John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2420	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: NJ International

The NJ International Signal Bridges look nice, but unfortunately they had no pictures of their signals. John, can you bring any literature about them with you to the Valencia Ballroom at York? Also, you suggested that we e-mail them, but they do not give an e-mail address. Do you have one? Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2421	From: RBaratta@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Flyer HO

For Sale: 1-Santa Fe red looks like F3 or F7 diesel power unit, one truck missing 2-NYC Hoppers, green w/grey detachable roof 1-C&O Caboose yellow extended view 1-Operating Tie Car 1-Die Cast black flat car. says National Car Co. 1-Santa Fe Hopper red w/grey detachable roof All VG+ condition, yellow caboose has one coupler missing. Make me an offer I can't refuse. Email me at RBaratta@..., I check it daily. Later folks........ Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2422	From: Michael Greene	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Fwd: Re: S Scale Kits

In response to John's note I went to the web site, and inquired about availability. Here's the response I received. Michael >From: LASERkit@... >Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 10:13:51 EDT >Subject: Re: S Scale Kits >To: mgreene@... >X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 4 >Reply-To: LASERkit@... > >Hi! > Thanks for your interest in our S Scale products! The following kits >are now available: > #75 Dill's Market $27.95 > #77 Sonny's Shack $32.95 > #79 Long Bell Skid Shacks $26.95/ 2 > #82 Miner's Cabin $19.95 > #83 Passenger Shelter $14.95/ 2 > >More kits will be released throughout 1999. Send a LSSA envelope for a copy >of our S Catalog to: LASERkit 1420 Hanley Ind. Ct. St. Louis, MO 63144.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2423	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Re: Spring Spree

Alex, This Spree will be my 3rd and every year Pete Hildenbrand and I have a dealers table for the following reasons: 1. It gives us an opertunity to sell unwanted items, 2. And most important, it gives us a place to sit down, relax and provides a place to eat our lunch. 3. We also seem to get to meet more new S friends when they stop by to talk and try to swindel us out of our trains. We allways have a great time and last year we were set up next to John Foley's NASG table. Big John is allways good for a lot of laughs. Take care, Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2424	From: John Foley	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Re: Web Site

>Delivered-To: foley164@... >From: "NJ International" <signals@...> >To: "John Foley" <foley164@...> >Subject: Re: Web Site >Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:25:39 -0400 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 > >John: >Thanks for your quick action, we have already recievd several e-mails. >As for the site; the address/phone etc is with the ordering instructions, >but it seems somehow the buttons have become screwed up. >the center button all the way at the bottom is the ordering etc button, some >how its now labled buliding kits, and that button does not come up, but does >take you to the correct area. >I got to get this corrected. >Jack >-----Original Message----- >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >To: Signals@... <Signals@...> >Date: Monday, April 12, 1999 10:21 AM >Subject: Web Site > > >>Hi Folks >> I'm John Foley the S gauger who was manning the NASG table >>at the GATS show in Edition NJ. I posted your website last night. I >>already have had some good reponses. One thing your website is great >>but you as far as I can see have any address's or evan phone numbers. >>I will post them from your order bank. >> >> John Foley >> NASG >> >> > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2425	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Re: Armatures for can motor conversions

<<Now that I have your attention.... I am installing a can motor in an American Flyer 283 and am looking for a bad motor armature that I can cut the shaft off of. I just can't bring myself to cut a good one, besides I may need it if I flub this installation.>> We have a large stock of the later side-mount brush armatures available....... more than we'll ever need. Some members of our local club have used these for that exact purpose. $10 each, plus $4 shipping per order. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 66-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 48 page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2426	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Re: NJ International

Hi Joe, Go back to the NJ International site again and click on the signals button, next click on one of the scale buttons like HO and THAT page has pictures of the signals. -- Keith THompson in Seattle Joseph Haenn wrote: > > From: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> > > The NJ International Signal Bridges look nice, but > unfortunately they had no pictures of their signals. > John, can you bring any literature about them with you > to the Valencia Ballroom at York? Also, you suggested > that we e-mail them, but they do not give an e-mail > address. Do you have one? > > Joe > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2427	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Sunset detailing parts

Hi guys. I asked Sunrise about ordering their detail parts in S scale. We should take to heart the comments from Sunrise -- we talk about what we don't have in S but we don't use what's available. cheers Dan Crews wrote: > Alex, > > Just add $3.20 to the order for shipping. This is the current list and > pricing, it is sad these parts are just sitting. I would like to see S > Scale move along and I would like to expand with more parts but we need a > response from the S Scale community.. Will see. > > You can pay by Visa/MaserCard, Check or Money Order. > > "S Scale Listing" NEW > S-100 Plow, Large w/Grab Irons UP,SP Style 1ea $6.00 > S-101 Plow, All Roads w/Grab Irons $6.00 1 > S-102 Cab Sunshades 4ea $4.50 > S-103 Dual Sealed Beam w/Lens Sheilds 3ea $3.00 > S-104 Nose Light Bracket w/Blank cover plates 2ea $3.00 > S-105 Nose Light Bracket w/Dual Sealed Beam 2ea $3.50 > S-106 SP Rear Light Cluster Bracket w/Dual Sealed Beam 2ea $4.00 > S-107 Cab/Nose Dual Oscillator SP,WP,KCS Etc. $4.00 > S-108 Bell Frame Mount 2ea $3.50 > S-109 Bell Body/Cab Mount 2ea $3.50 > S-110 Ditch Light, Pilot mount housing only 4ea $2.50 > > Thanks, > > Dan Crews > Sunrise > > Alex Binkley wrote: > > > Hi: > > I want to order some of your S scale parts. I need to know what the > > mailing charge would be for shipping to Canada (I live near Ottawa, > > Ontario). I want to send you a money order in U.S. funds to pay for the > > order. > > thanks > > Alex Binkley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2428	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Re: SunRISE detailing parts

Hi Alex and All, Don't forget that your local hobby dealer can get Sunrise Enterprise parts from Walthers. Also, by ordering S scale equipment and parts through Walthers, potential S scale manufacturers get numbers about S scale when Walthers shares its market information from them. A lot of manufacturers take Walthers sales figures as gospel. Also, by letting Walthers be the clearing house, small manufacturers like Dan Crews can use Walthers' warehouse to amortize some of their production cost by having an immediate outlet and a subsequent cash flow. Just something to think about. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle. Alex Binkley wrote: > > From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> > > Hi guys. > I asked Sunrise about ordering their detail parts in S scale. We should take > to heart the comments from Sunrise -- we talk about what we don't have in S > but we don't use what's available. > cheers >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2429	From: Alan & Sherry Bennett	Date: 4/12/1999
Subject: Gilbert's Famous AF Trains

I also bought Paul Nelson's delightful new book on American Flyer trains when I renewed my subscription to S Gaugian. I read it from cover to cover, and I found it very enjoyable. It reminded me of the many pleasurable hours I have spent looking at my old AF catalogs and other written material. It is about the trains and accessories as toys for enjoyment and not as a collection of variations to be scrutinized, bought and sold. A thoroughly enjoyable and fresh book on my favorite subject. Alan Bennett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2430	From: Scott Brown	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 197

Good morning !! I just happened across a web page some of you may be interested in. It is for RR fonts. It is quite extensive and may be usefull for those of you who model, kitbash, etc. You can use his fonts to print your own decals for your S cars. Anyway, have a look. http://robotics.eecs.berkeley.edu/~zephyr/TrainTracks.html Scott Brown sbrown@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2431	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: numbers?

I had to chuckle on the WCFO, maybe we as S people need to wear big S on our underwear and shirts; wait, or was that Supermen? Anyway, a little gimmick can go a long way...... perhaps a stylish S on our head and dress inappropriate colors. May Friendship and Knowledge Be Yours, Curt Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2432	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: Re: numbers?

Curt, Was that "inappropriate colors" or "in appropriate colors"? Since I like loud Hawaiian shirts, I'm probably in 'inappropriate' colors! S' David D. The mild-manner model railroader ducks into a handy trackside AF toolshed and emerges--FlyerGuy!! Faster than a speeding ejected mailbag, able to leap #13 trestle bents at a single bound!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2433	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: Attention Pikemaster Fans

>>>FORWARD FROM AL BABBITT>>> I have the following Pikemaster track for sale: 2 ea. straight section (1 fiber ties, 1 plastic ties) with uncoupler & terminal: $3 each 6 ea. straight sections (plastic ties), no pins, some light rust: $0.50 each 19 ea. curved sections (plastic ties) very few pins, some light rust: $0.50 each Both terminal/uncoupler sections are very clean and have pins. Straight and curved sections have varying amounts of light surface rust but rail tops have been cleaned. Only 3 sections of 25 have pins. Buy individually or ALL FOR $16 plus freight. I don't have Internet access, so please respond to: jeichmann@... Thanks for the time, Al Babbitt RMHR-NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2434	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: custom decals/transfers

Hello - This subject has been kicked around before. I'm hoping that it has settled enough that someone can answer my question. Is there a commercial source of custom decals or custom dry transfers? I am building some 1930s wood boxcars and wood reefers and can't find appropriate decals or dry-transfers in the usual places. Thanks Art Armstrong aarmstro@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2435	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: custom decals

Art Armstrong, For dry transfers of 1930's lettering, have you tried Clover House? Many of his dry transfers, including for S, cover from just prior to the turn of the century to the 1960's, and some newer. His catalog is worth the $4.50, and it can be obtained from Clover House P.O. Box 62 Sebastopol, CA 95473-0062 As for custom decals, look in any of the model railroad magazines such as MR, RMC, etc. for ads. Some listed are Rail Graphics in South elgin, IL www.mcs.net/-railgraf Donald B. Manlick in Manitowoc, WI After Hours Graphics in Sharonville, OH E-Mail RRDecals@... If you have already tried these, I don't know what else to tell you. Lee Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2436	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: Re: SunRISE detailing parts

> From: Keith Thompson > Don't forget that your local hobby dealer can get... parts from > Walthers. Also, by ordering S scale equipment and parts > through Walthers, potential S scale manufacturers get numbers about S > scale when Walthers shares its market information from them. > The same might apply to Detail Associates parts. My hobby shop has ordered them through Walthers. About the Sunrise parts not selling: I don't believe that many people know about them, while most have certainly not seen them (except for one plow, I haven't either). The same applies to the Detail Associates parts. Is there any reason why the S scale dealers don't seem to carry these lines? Dealer exposure carries more weight than the dealer's direct sales volume would indicate. If someone comes back from a show and tells people that "I finally got a close look at these; they're really good!", sales volume from all sources will tend to rise. In a market as small as S scale, it is amazing that we have many lack-of-exposure issues. It's not like a manufacturer needs to mount a marketing campaign that has to reach millions of people. Does anyone have comments or ideas about why this is so? Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2437	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/13/1999
Subject: Sunrise and Detail Associates exposure...

Stan Stockrocki wonders what can be done to get these vendors' parts moving. I know what would do it -- Get them exposure in the Dispatch and in S/Sn3 Modeler's Guide. Stan -- Maybe you can do a review, take a photo or two (or sent parts to Bob Werre for photos), and send the material to Jeff at the Dispatch. And maybe tell Billy Wade of these things -- Maybe he is not aware. Both you and Billy happen to be interested in modern diesels, and you are both expert at detailing them. Who better to "formally" introduce these new products to S modelers than Billy and Stan? How about it, you guys?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2438	From: jim	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: custom decals

Art Armstrong asked..... "This subject has been kicked around before. I'm hoping that it has settled enough that someone can answer my question. Is there a commercial source of custom decals or custom dry transfers? I am building some 1930s wood boxcars and wood reefers and can't find appropriate decals or dry-transfers in the usual places." As for custom decals.... If you are in a hurry there are quite a few people on the "alpsdecal" mail list (alpsdecal@onelist.com) who can make custom decals for you. Otherwise, I have the necessary equipment and supplies but I just have not had the time to do it yet. (I own my own business and I am a full time graduate student at CSUF). If someone would supply me with the necessary graphics I could probably make the time to run off a sheet of custom decals for someone. If it were a graphic that I could make use of my self I would only charge for the materials. I have a research paper and an exam coming up next Tuesday so it would be a week to ten days before I could get to it. Jim.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2439	From: PatnDave	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Sunrise/Detail Associates

Why S dealers don't carry these S detailing parts? I know Des Plaines Hobbies does but even they, I'd bet don't carry a full line of each simply because of business practices. They'll only stock what moves on a more regular basis (like plows). If dealers were to start getting orders from various people for the same non-stock kind of items they no doubt would start an inventory of these parts as well. Why some other S dealers don't carry these parts may be they, like the modeler, aren't aware of or that their customer base is largely AF / Hi Rail people that don't use these parts. Advertising? I'd speculate to say that in the case of DA, if it were not for the fine work and persuasion of Randy Wilson (the motivator/do-er), DA would not be offering S parts at all and this is why DA does not advertise their few S parts. I'd even go so far as to say Randy again being the one notifying the magazines as to the availability of DA carrying S parts. Is this dedication or what?! Sunrise Enterprises? I've seen one small ad w/photo of their parts over two years ago in the F/M '97 issue of SMG, probably their first introduction, and haven't seen an ad since. This could be a very good reason why not many folks including dealers don't know of them or their terrific parts line. Like Stan says, these manufacturers do not need to mount an extensive (expensive) advertising campaign, all they need to do is notify Three S magazines of their offerings and then keep them up-dated as time goes on. This would probably even be free if it would only be a written paragraph! Somebody is missing the boat here, whether it be on the manufacturer end or the magazine marketing end to keep us informed. Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2440	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Sunrise parts

About 3 years ago when Sunrise Enterprises frought out their first four item, Trackside Trains hobby shop in Burlingame, CA brought them to my attention. I in turn bought all four items and sent them to Billy Wade who in turn reviewed them in his magazine. They placed the one ad with Billy, and some of the S scalers out here in the West bought some of the parts. There never was any additional promotional work done for these parts that I am aware of. Now the question is did Dan Crews of Sunrise need to do more promotional work, or did he satisfy the market with the few parts that were sold? Trackside Trains still carries the line, but I don't think they have sold much other than the first offering. They are there for everyone to see. Since advertising every issue of the S magazines can be cost prohibitive for such a small line of parts, I would think the manufacturer could send something to the magazines to review on an annual basis to keep their product in front of the modeler. Just some more thoughts to ponder. Lee Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2441	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: decals/transfers

What about CDS in Canada? I used a lot of their transfers at one time, and they were excellent. Haven't ordered from them in years though. Are they still happening? Tom Jarcho P.S. This is a about a different era but I'd like to remind S-listers that the Microscale S decals for the PA diesels are great and allow us to do interesting things with old Flyer shells. We should support them too.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2442	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Re: decals/transfers

CDS is alive and well and I have been making good use of them on freight cars. I have my own custom transfers for my locos and freight cars. cheers Jarcho wrote: > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > What about CDS in Canada? I used a lot of their transfers at one time, and > they were excellent. Haven't ordered from them in years though. Are they > still happening? Tom Jarcho > > P.S. This is a about a different era but I'd like to remind S-listers that > the Microscale S decals for the PA diesels are great and allow us to do > interesting things with old Flyer shells. We should support them too. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Have you visited the new ONElist home page lately? > http://www.ONElist.com > ONElist: The Leading e-mail list and community service on the Internet! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2443	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Re: SunRISE detailing parts

Hi Keith: I guess is whether we order detail parts etc through Walthers or through those dealers that actually carry them I tried ordering some DA parts through Walthers last year. Some came and the rest they didn't seem to care about. Perhaps it would be better to order through DesPlaines, Bill Wade, Doug Peck and the other dealers such as Steam Depot or up here in Canada Oliver Clubine who have catered to we S scalers over the years. I don't think Walthers gives a D about us but the other gents certainly do. We also have to encourage more people to buy and use these parts. cheers Alex Binkley Keith Thompson wrote: > Hi Alex and All, > > Don't forget that your local hobby dealer can get Sunrise Enterprise > parts from Walthers. Also, by ordering S scale equipment and parts > through Walthers, potential S scale manufacturers get numbers about S > scale when Walthers shares its market information from them. > > A lot of manufacturers take Walthers sales figures as gospel. Also, by > letting Walthers be the clearing house, small manufacturers like Dan > Crews can use Walthers' warehouse to amortize some of their production > cost by having an immediate outlet and a subsequent cash flow. Just > something to think about. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2444	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Proto 64

You all probably all know this but I finally caught on to the Proto 64 list (as a companion to our list). It has 34 members about the same as us but not all the same people. Anyway if you don't belong to it, you might wish to go to www.onelist.com and subscrive to proto64. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2445	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: detail parts,again

all this info about detail parts has got me thinking about a beater 290 in my "roundtooit"box.what do i need, and who makes it, to meke this engine a better representation of a real NH pacific? like,headlight, bell, worthington heater, correct domes-and who has a good reference drawing of the prototype loco?? here's a teaser-i know a fellow with the plan views of the NH I-5 streamlined hudson. now if only someone could make a conversion kit of this body for flyer hudson and pacific running gear..........(just think of the fun in finding the royal blue tender for it!!) hope to hear from someone!-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2446	From: A50flyer@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer Track for sale/trade

25 lb's of 50's track &acc ,weathered (rusty) on top,like new on underside,cross over &switch+more. offer or trade for A.F. marty a50flyer@... 6024888625 ---the S man is everywhere.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2447	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Jacques' crossing question (3/29)

Jacques: meant to answer your question a few days ago but forgot. If one of the two loops involved in the crossing is much shorter than the other and the trains run in the same direction always there is a very simple solution. You can use a 761 Flyer semaphore or 758-A (two button) Sam the Semaphore Man to protect the crossing. Put the trip that is connected to the red wire and throws the sem. or sam to stop position on the smaller loop's approach to the crossing. Have the stopping segment of track (the insulated pin segment) right before the train gets to the crossing on the smaller loop. Have the trip connected to the green wire that throws the signal or sam to green (go) on the larger loop one train length beyond the crossing. Since its loop is smaller, the train on the smaller loop will always get to the crossing first and stop. Once the train on the longer loop has passed the crossing, the train on the shorter loop will start up again. This is visually very effective. People like it. I have done it twice. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2448	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: New Bookstore

I have just completed building a new Borders.com bookstore. http://www.homestead.com/s_bookstore/ Please let me know if you encounter and problems. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2449	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: ELECTION DAY

Hi S Gaugers, I just received my ballot for the NASG elections as have many of you. I hope you will take the time to review the candidates and vote. My choice for Executive Vice President is John Foley only because I have worked with John in the building up of our local clubs and I have seen his enthusiasum for the NASG and hobby in general. Please accept this little bit of history in S (American Flyer) Gauge added to my resume for secretary: My Aunt Eleanor was born into a creative family of florists with a strong work ethic. She left home to study at Pierce School of Business in Philadelphia. She met William Bud Sattler in the late '30s. Bud was in the candy making business when they married. Sometime in the '40s Bud developed an interest in toy trains and became a distributor,out of the home's basement, for A.C. Gilbert's American Flyer Trains. I remember as a boy going over after Christmas at Grandmas to see this big layout in their basement with train boxes and parts all over. With my Christmas money I purchased my first American Flyer set from them in December, 1952. By 1954 the business had grown to the point where they opened a storefront at 14 Haddon Avenue in Westmont, NJ. The business grew with the sale of American Flyer Trains,Plasticville buildings and personal service. With the decline of Gilbert American Flyer in the late 50s Bud switched over to HO brass until he passed away in 1982. Eleanor kept the business. Eleanor kept going to train shows and sold from tables at train shows and flea markets. She always looked for original American Flyer pieces for my Christmas presents. In 1993 she celebrated her 80th birthday with no sign of slowing down in the train business. A short time later we heard she had a heart condition and the doctors told her to stop selling trains. She stopped for 2 or 3 months but then went back on a 2 day a week basis. Aunt Eleanor had a stroke over a year ago and her train business days are over but while she lives she will have fond memories of model trains. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2450	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Re: Keith's comment on parts

Sorry. I posted a reply to Keith's message, but it didn't reach the group (my error). He wrote that he ordered some Detail Associates parts from Walthers. He received a few, but they didn't seem to care about the rest. My response was that this problem is not exactly restricted to S scale. You can check the in-stock status of any part number on the Walthers website. I usually do this before asking the hobby shop to order anything which might be considered a "slow-moving" item. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2451	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Re: Previous post

Yet another error. My comments reference Alex's reply to Keith's message. I'm just having one of those days... Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2452	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Walther and parts

My experiences!! When you live this far away from any decent source of "S" parts or RTR, then you really rely on MailOrder. Some shops I have dealings with here ( and they are good shops to deal with) have attempted to get some parts ("S" parts) from Walthers. Now this used to be an interesting exercise even in my HO days...was like a lottery!! Now these boys at "W" have really got their act together in the world of HO theme developments (complete industry offerings) but the thing I always think of them as is..GREAT makers of catalogs!!! .....just don't try to get anything in it!! :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2453	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: It's not just Walthers...

Waiting for S products that are nominally available is nothing new for this long-time S scaler. Waiting goes with the territory. I continue to place orders because I know that I can rely on the vendors, even if I have to wait a very long time. Examples of things I have ordered and am still waiting for: A PRR wagon-top boxcar kit from Central Hobby Supply (4 years and still waiting) Orbisonia Station from Billy Wade (since January 1999) NYC Dreyfuss Hudson shell from Tom Hodgson (since February 1999) Six white NYC MDT reefer kits from Pacific Rail Shops (since October 1998) I am not complaining. I know that I will eventually receive these items. My point is that perhaps distributors and retailers choose not to attempt to stock goods that cannot be reliably obtained. Perhaps they extrapolate their experiences to all S suppliers. Therefore, three points need to be kept in mind: 1. Fairly continual exposure is required in the S press. As others of us have said, such exposure is free if submitted as product news, or in the context of how-to articles. 2. Order directly from the manufacturer or a reliable S dealer (like Doug Peck or Ron Sebastian). 3. Find a way to stay abreast of what's available. I use a combination of SMG, RMC, Model Railroader, and the Internet. And now this s-trains group also.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2454	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Walthers

I once tried for 2 years to get some decals from Walthers. Never got them. Eventually gave up. Won't bother to try them again. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2455	From: Gale Hall	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Waiting for arrival

Maybe we should check on the status of the Enhorning GP-40's I know I paid for two in 1968.......... Guess they will come right after cows can fly. Gale _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2456	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/14/1999
Subject: Re: SunRISE detailing parts

Hi Alex, That's exactly the problem. If I where getting into business to manufacture parts in any other scale besides HO, I'd talk to Model Railroader magazine and Walthers to get an idea of the numbers because I'm going to be spending REAL money that needs a return on its investment. If Model Railroader's and Walthers' numbers are skewed because we're all off in our own corner of the hobby, this scale will never grow. That's just the way it is. These two firms have their collective fingers on the pulse of model railroading and can tell you who buys what, when, and where. I've seen the databases and I've analyzed the demographics. You don't grow a garden buy watering one seed and hope the rest of the seeds will come to where the water is. More importantly, you don't grow a hobby by preaching to the choir. Since I've been back in S scale, I've talked to a couple of former S "scalers" that have gone back to HO. Their reason is that S scalers are too "media isolated" to let the scale grow. Now they're entitled to their own opinion but I can't help but start to agree with them. Sunrise parts for S were announced in S over a year ago (please don't ask me which magazines) and that's when I started checking Sunrise's and Walthers' web pages for availability. As soon as I had the part numbers, I ordered the parts and lo and behold my dealer had them from Walthers in a couple of weeks! Now then, I see this thread of the last few days about American Model Builders kits. Again, these have been listed on the Walthers stock list for the last three months and I sent a notice to THIS list on Jan 30th (http://www.onelist.com/viewarchive.cgi?listname=S%2DTrains&archive=122.gz) as soon as I saw the listing on the Walthers web site. Don't get me wrong, I'm not crying sour grapes but it's sort of frustrating to post something and apparently not have it read. Could it be that we are posting too much to this list and overloading everyone? Of coarse I'm just as guilty then with this posting so I'll shut up about that now. My point is that we need to let the folks at Walthers and MR know we're out here, that we're a viable market, and that this scale really deserves another look. And the operative word is LOOK. My HO modeling friends look at my S scale stuff and comment on how much detail the scale NEEDS because you can actually see it! -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Alex Binkley wrote: > > Hi Keith: > I guess is whether we order detail parts etc through Walthers or through those > dealers that actually carry them I tried ordering some DA parts through Walthers > last year. Some came and the rest they didn't seem to care about. Perhaps it would > be better to order through DesPlaines, Bill Wade, Doug Peck and the other dealers > such as Steam Depot or up here in Canada Oliver Clubine who have catered to we S > scalers over the years. I don't think Walthers gives a D about us but the other > gents certainly do. We also have to encourage more people to buy and use these > parts. > cheers > Alex Binkley >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2457	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: mixing it up

First, thanks to all the people who responded off-list to my newcomers questions. You've turned me on to some great resources. This may be a stupid question, but I'm curious: How many operators on this list cheerfully mix their Flyer equipment (and track, for that matter) with scale S-gauge equipment from S-Helper and American Models? Or is this considered one of the seven sins? Paul Schneider _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2458	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Re: mixing it up

At 04:07 AM 4/15/99 -0700, you wrote: >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> >This may be a stupid question, but I'm curious: How >many operators on this list cheerfully mix their Flyer >equipment (and track, for that matter) with scale >S-gauge equipment from S-Helper and American Models? I mix, although less as time goes by. I use very few AF cars anymore, and the ones I use are slowly being converted to SHS Hirail trucks and KD couplers. I have one AF/Lionel PA with DCC in it, but it runs poorly and noisily. The SHS and AM diesels are so much better I use them all the time. I do have an old Northern, converted to a can motor, DCC and sound, that I love. And I've been converting AF pacifics and 0-8-0 to DC/Can/DCC as well. Can't wait for the SHS F3! Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2459	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: MR/Walthers

Hey S Guys: I would like to say that I do not look to Kalmbach and those other Milwaukee people for leadership and don't think you should either. To say they have their "finger on the pulse" of model railroading is an understatement. Rather, they have their hands in a firm come-along grip on its testes. Remember, these are the people who convinced the planet to trade in our S and O trains for HO. I will never forgive them for this. HO is easier to manufacture, distribute, and sell so the manufacturers love it. However, it is about as exciting as watching paint dry or maybe on a good day, watching an ant farm. And they really LOVE N. Imagine what it must be like to be about 35 years old and build a nice N gauge railroad. Then all of a sudden you turn 40 and can't see it anymore! Besides their small town anal retentive conceptual framework which I won't get into here, I also decry their excessive emphasis on diorama building. Model railroading is model railroading, and diorama building is diorama building. They are not necessarily the same thing. As a kid, every saturday I was forced to go to the Museum of Natural History here in NYC and look at all those dioramas. Well, they are still there and they still look the same. The same damn snowshoe rabbitt, the same wolf, etc. Wonder who is more bored, they or I? I consider the Milwaukee Diorama Building School of Model Railroading to be about as exciting. On the other hand, cound you imagine what model railroading would be like now if not for the cheese heads? Everyone would have spent the years since WW II improving and converting not only the S and/or O rolling stock but also the action accessories to a high level of sophistication. A typical model railroad would have larger trains, more sound and noise, more action, more life, more detail, and just in general be more interesting and appealing. A true measure of Kalmbach's contempt for us is their increasingly sorry publication, Classic Toy Trains. The last issue I saw contained an article on old transformers that was worse than worthless. In addition to neglecting how to change power cords (on a ZW it is very tricky), they didn't mention testing continuity between the power cord and the frame or secondary. This is the most simple and basic safety test for ANY electrical appliance, even a lamp! Their glossover of the Seaboard coaler in the same issue didn't begin to cover the many maintenance techniques or the constant vigilance that are necessary to get any satisfaction out of the accessory. And they don't pay much for material either. I calculated that my net from the three articles I wrote for them came to between 65 and 75 cents per hour. So I stopped. And as for the big Wisconsin dealers, i recently ordered some pipettes and tenax from Terminal. When she asked what gauge I was in, I said S of course. She burst out laughing ! "Oh, one of Those !", she said. S has always been a builder's and improviser's gauge. Even Flyer guys have to scramble to come up with a railroad. Starting with the S Gauge Herald, it has taken almost 40 years to undo the damage that the Wisconsin wonders laid on us. Throughout all this time we have repeatedly learned that to get anything done, we have to depend on each other. Walthers, Model Railroader, and the others have never helped us and by now we ought to have learned that they never will. And as far as detail parts go, maybe it's time to start up another group like the Berkshire project, in which craftsmen all over the country pool their efforts and skills to produce what is needed to advance the gauge. Despite the best efforts of the evangelists of HO there has never been a more exciting time to be an S gauger. We have some courageous folks on the business side who have ascended the learning curve, not without error, and are now only a contract with a major toystore chain away from getting over the top and breaking the grip I mentioned at the beginning of this. We have S scalers and Flyer enthusiasts who have not only joined to form a larger customer pool but are also cross-fertilizing and influencing each other's work in new and wonderful ways. Some of the stuff I have seen on the South Jersey S Gaugers website and other places is amazing! And now, best of all we have the internet and S-list. Used properly with the right spirit of cooperation, we can link together a host of larger manufacturers, small basement manufacturers, craftsmen, and customers, to produce and sell everything we need. We can bypass Walthers, Kalmbach, LTI, and anyone else who gets in our way. We can take S to another level. Will Walthers and Model Railroader help us? To use an old NY City expression, Fuggedaboutit! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2460	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Re: Cleaners

Where can we get your cleaners and clipper oil, Roger? Also folks, how about sharing answers to questions posted on the list, rather than replying back off-list to only the question asker? I suspect this is happening when I don't see answers to some of the good questions. Also, a tip for when referring to web sites is to include the http:// with the url so that the link will be highlighted in our mail programs and allow us to go directly to the site by clicking on it without having to start the browser and type or paste the address in. --- Roger Hinds <cofa@...> wrote: > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > > Hi Guy"S" ; > > Since you are discussing cleaners, don't forget > the ones I sell. > > Colonel Brassy, for polishing metals and removing > rust. Works great. > One bottle goes a long way. > > "General Cleaner" (yes, that is the name of it) > Great for removing > grime, > stains, animal messes in the rug of your train room, > and many other > uses. > This comes in concentrate form. Makes up to 8 > gallons. > > My Wahl clipper oil, for keeping track clean and > eliminating electrical > arching between your wheels and track. > I haven't tried to use it as a cleaner. It probably > would remove grime > from your track. But I would not want that much oil > on the track. > > For more info , write back. > > Roger _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2461	From: Bill Banta	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Re: MR/Walthers

Right on! An interesting note, MR neglected to mention that Walthers was sold to "foreign interests". apparently it's a secret... b. banta

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2462	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: the mind flies

consider it a Gilbertanian slip; whether to be inappropriately dressed and suffer the derailment and dumping of others OR by dressing appropriately 'couple' into the fashionable trend of today's S group. THAT is the question! By The Way, I think it would have to be a HomeDepot for that is where tools are traded regularly in today's market. MF&KBY Curti --'S' Johnson David Dewey wrote: > .....................The mild-manner model railroader ducks into a handy > trackside AF toolshed > and emerges--FlyerGuy!! Faster than a speeding ejected mailbag, able to leap > #13 trestle bents at a single bound!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2463	From: J. Row	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Walthers Info Add On

Hello "S" Friends! As a result of the comments (regarding availability of product, specific large dealers and distributors, mags, etc.) from many of you I replied to one of them personally. Since that time I see a suggestion that we share with all. So here goes for what we hope might be of a tiny bit of interest. I've slightly modified the original personal text to make more sense for the group (I hope). Since writing this yesterday I learned that Walthers is apparently no longer Walthers except (in name). Not surprising, is it? The following is written from a manufacturer's perspective as well as from the perspective of a Model Railroader who has been one for well over 50 years! Hi! You're right about Walthers. Having been personally closely allied with a manufacturer (my brother) in making some model RR parts just a few years ago (in our jointly owned and run shop), the story from Walthers was: #1) You boys and your products are not big enough to fool with. 2) Your product line is too limited. 3) You get sales rolling and add some more products and we (Walthers) can talk again in a year or two or three about us handling your products. We deal with those with 'proven success'. You prove first and we'll ride in on your coat tails while attempting to cut out the local dealers." We are here for us, your are there for you and the customer and his needs are secondary to the whole story! We advertised some (before the days of the internet) and were quite successful. Managed to garner several cheap rip-offs by rip-off artists of the product who sort of ruined the market - - so we quit. When I say ruined I mean the following: 1) the rip offs, for the most part, did not work well. They looked right but did not work right. It was the general overall appearance they stole but not the important details. 2) They diluted the market with a poor product that was already available elsewhere. The other product cost more and was of much higher quality (and worked). 3) Those who purchased the cheapies and were dis-satisfied never tried the others but bad mouthed the entire concept of these products. It is interesting to note that we did sell product with quantities measured in the tens of thousands (at $1.50 to $2 ea.) but the fun was gone and the feeling of accomplishment and of helping the hobbyist was distorted to one of not being anything but a "price chopper", to keep the business. Unfortunately, there was no room to chop the price while keeping a reasonable incentive (profit) to continue. We did price chop in a successful effort ruin the "ripper offers" but then the fun was over! After having been out of the business for about 6 years, we still get people begging to purchase our products but we have none and no desire to go back into the business. This story dealt with a size of trains that runs approximately 2X the size of 1:64. Some would call it #1 gage and others LGB. Now you know the Rest of the Story! My primary interest was at that time and still is the "S" size (gauge, scale, etc.)! Though I must admit that I squandered some time on the large scale outdoor railroading aspect. I still maintain a (not quite so close) working relationship with another brother who imports museum quality gauge #1 equipment and sells it to those with enough $$$ to be able to purchase. The story of working with dealers in #1 gauge isn't much different than in our favorite size. This situation leads to the right people often not knowing about products available. Have you ever seen the cost of a full page ad in a mag or even of one that is only 1/8th page? It's outlandish when one considers the additional cost that needs to be added to the cost of the product to the consumer! Oh Yes - - back to our own manufacturining history, one ripper offer even patented his rip-off but it wasn't worth the effort to sue him due to the very limited potential for future sales and profits. It gives us great pleasure to know that he spent more on obtaining his patent than he made in gross sales receipts! This may help to shed some light on the problems faced by manufacturers who do these things for fun + a minuscule profit only to find out that the really fun thing to do is to make poor copies of someone else's efforts then get to Walthers with a whole pocket full of rip-offs and get listed in their Bible. If one is dedicated and has money to spend on "having fun manufacturing" AND "promoting product" then we see results. I, for fun, like to build, run, collect, etc. Leave the other stuff to those who have slightly different ideas about fun and keep encouraging them to have their fun manufacturing and developing and marketing and filling orders, and collecting, and deciding what might sell well next, etc. Thanks for listening!!! I didn't send this to the whole group initially since the intent was to explain why or why isn't Walthers (and similar) operations good for our phase of the Model RR hobby. I might add that Kalmbach did help with our promotion with more than one product evaluation article over a period of a couple of years. It is necessary to work with (be co-operative, communicate, furnish pictures and a bit of free product for evaluation, etc.) these people to get "free" recognition throught their readership. The info they give out helps grow their readership base which in turn ups the price of advertising! Oh well. It's a challenge to find out how to win! Just a side note - - In the mid to late 40s I revered the Walthers name and drooled over their little yellow catalogs with the Elder Mr. Walthers (white hair and moustache smiling at me from inside the front page and in later catalogs his son (Bruce?) smiling along side. I built several of their kits in the 40s and 50s and was glad they were there, helping to promote HO. Too bad they didn't see the future of S in the same light! Who is Walthers now. 50 years later? You're right - - They are "big business" there helping themselves and letting us help ourselves! Jim Row

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2464	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: American Scientist article

The latest issue of American Scientist (not Scientific American) has an article by Henry Petroski, professor of engineering at Duke, on the role Erector sets and toy trains played in training leading engineers. "These were the toys that built engineers." He also mentions that he had S-guage trains! Ref: Petroski, Henry. Work and play. American Scientist, May-June 1999. Roy E. Plotnick Professor Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences University of Illinois at Chicago 845 W. Taylor St. Chicago, IL 60607 plotnick@... phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279 web page: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/plotnick.htm "The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May Alcott

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2465	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Re: MR/Walthers

Tom Jarcho said on the S-list: big clip And now, best of all we have the internet and S-list. Used properly with the right spirit of cooperation, we can link together a host of larger manufacturers, small basement manufacturers, craftsmen, and customers, to produce and sell everything we need. We can bypass Walthers, Kalmbach, LTI, and anyone else who gets in our way. We can take S to another level. Will Walthers and Model Railroader help us? To use an old NY City expression, Fuggedaboutit! and I respond: I think Tom said it precisely. I am a newbie in S-scale - two years - and I have found that the biggest problem is finding out what is available. The more I search, the more I find. The internet has contributed a lot to my learning and the friendship and help of other more experienced (I can't say older) S-ers - scale and hirail - has been very useful. I hope the feelings Tom expressed are shared by a lot of other modelers. Art Armstrong aarmstro@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2466	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: a new member

We have a new member Phil Randall of Princeton, In. his email address is TTscale@.... he has a freelance line. he also models Sn30. cheers Alex Binkley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2467	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Personal checks

I am looking for information where I can get personal checks with train pictures on them..any suggestions? Thanks in advance..Ben

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2468	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Walthers' owner

Guys and Girls I'll bite !!!! who owns Walthers now??? my curiosity is piqued. :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2469	From: Tomlinson, John D	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: Re: Personal checks

There usually a number of advertisements for these kind of check in each month's Model Railroader or Classic Toy Trains. John D. Tomlinson > Configuration Mgmt Deployment - CA-Endevor Support > 6-6M67 M/S: 6F-62 Bldg: 7-311.3 > Ph: (425) 477-4589 Pgr: (206) 986-5329 Hotline: (206) 655-HELP > Boeing Web page: http://www-ads.ca.boeing.com/cmd > > > ---------- > From: Ben Kronenwetter[SMTP:bg@...] > Reply To: bg@... > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 1999 4:17 PM > To: s-trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Personal checks > > From: Ben Kronenwetter <bg@...> > > I am looking for information where I can get personal checks with train > pictures on them..any suggestions? > Thanks in advance..Ben > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that we add over 1,000 new e-mail communities every day? > http://www.ONElist.com > Explore a new hobby, discover a new friend, laugh at a new joke! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2470	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/15/1999
Subject: SW1000/SW1500

Hi all By neccessity I start this with a disclaimer: This is not a solicitation of funds,monies or any remunerations. This is not an offer to sell. Now having said that. Please note that the product described here-with is not at full development and may never be, however I am very encouraged by certain collaborating parties by their advice and encouragement. I am inviting expressions of INTEREST .Also any constructive and informative suggestions are also welcome. These expressions will not be viewed as (nor could be) as firm orders to buy a product. However those who reply will be given first opportunity to order should the product evolve through final development into a "for sale" entity. Why so convoluted: Firstly, this is totally above board and will always remain so. I ONLY do business that way. Secondly I am not the giver of false hopes. Too may wannabes have already decimated the trust and wishes of our modelling fraternities. I am not asking anyone to put money where mouth is only to help me evaluate a business decision. Product description; SW1000/SW1500 This is to be made available as a kit comprising , resin castings (polyurethane and tooling varieties), photo-etched parts, vacuum formed parts, formed metal parts, Can Motor with flywheels, some pre assembled subassemblies. This kit will also make use wher practical and commercially viable pre-existing components from other suppliers and manufacturers. It is anticipated that options will include the choice of code 110 or P:64 wheelsets.Another option may be SP/ non SP ( or the parts for both maybe included, undecided there!!) At this stage no planning is given to AC versions (sorry gents, but I have no expertise in this area and numbers at this stage don't warrant this development, HOWEVER I can be persuaded!!) This kit is to be provided as Undecorated only. It is to be produced in specific runs, not limited numbers as such but they are to be made in batches. It is to be made available as mail order (web order also) only. If distribution is involved then price increases. (open to education to other opinions here, I don't believe that the smallish numbers will intereret distribution anyway) Now for some input from you guys and girls. 1) what price range do you consider appropriate ??( in $US please) This has a GREAT bearing on viability. 2) any special considerations in terms of detail ?? 3) likes/dislikes ?? 4) would you be inclined to buy one/more ?? 5) anything else you think is relevant!! Please note that the product WOULD exist prior to monies being accepted.When orders are confirmed the product will be ready to ship. This is not lets see how much I can get up front and then go ahead. Should this announcement be of interest to non internet accessible folk, please pass it on. regards :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2471	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Detail Parts

Keep the info coming guys. I've read about several detail items here that I was unaware of. Thanks. Tell us what is available, give us your own comments on how good it is and what it can be used on. Take photos and send your comments to one of the magazines so that they can publish it to those who are not on the list (and to those of us who miss it on the list, for whatever reason). Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/marchweb.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2472	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: That damnable Milwaukee Axis

Referring to Kalmbach and Walthers Terminal Hobby, Tom Jarcho wrote: I would like to say that I do not look to Kalmbach and those other Milwaukee people for leadership and don't think you should either. To say they have their "finger on the pulse" of model railroading is an understatement. Rather, they have their hands in a firm come-along grip on its testes. To which Paul Schneider replied: First, I admire your passion Tom. It's great to see someone fired up and waving the S-gauge banner with your fervor. Still, I'm not sure you're tilting at windmills. To be sure, Kalmbach's CLASSIC TOY TRAINS favors gauge. But doesn't that make sense? I'm an S-gauge/Flyer enthusiast, but like it or not, O-gauge dominates the toy train market (hasn't it always?). I used to work at Kalmbach as an Associate Editor for TRAINS Magazine. As the token Flyer guy in the building, I used to kid CTT founding editor Dick Christianson (a Lionel guy) about the large amount of editorial space devoted to Lionel compared to American Flyer. Dick's response: CTT reflects the interests of its readers, the majority of which are Lionel/O-gaugers. Hasn't it been that way since the post-War era? Tom went on to write: On the other hand, cound you imagine what model railroading would be like now if not for the cheese heads? Everyone would have spent the years since WW II improving and converting not only the S and/or O rolling stock but also the action accessories to a high level of sophistication. A typical model railroad would have larger trains, more sound and noise, more action, more life, more detail, and just in general be more interesting and appealing. To which Schneider replies: Tom, you seem to suggest that Kalmbach, Walthers and the men's room attendant in the Pfister Hotel on Wisconsin Avenue were allied in a nefarious plot to wipe out S and O gauge. Let's face it, model railroading isn't urban transportation and the "Milwaukee Axis" you point to isn't GM, Standard Oil and Goodyear (the consortium that worked together to eliminate America's trolley cars). Your conspiracy theory sidesteps the fact that model railroaders embraced HO in the 1960s because they could cram more model railroad in the same amount of space as S or O. Hell, I have N-gauge friends who advocate N for the same reason: You can put more N-gauge in a basement room than HO. Still on a roll, Tom wrote: A true measure of Kalmbach's contempt for us is their increasingly sorry publication, Classic Toy Trains. And they don't pay much for material either. I calculated that my net from the three articles I wrote for them came to between 65 and 75 cents per hour. So I stopped. To which Schneider, a freelance writer himself, replied: Tom, I don't see how you can blame CTT because your hourly rate for writing a story for the magazine wasn't higher. Maybe you should type faster! :-) More to the point, how much do ANY of the niche model railroad magazines pay? My guess: Their rate-per-word or column inch is lower than CTT. Tom went on to write: And as for the big Wisconsin dealers, i recently ordered some pipettes and tenax from Terminal. When she asked what gauge I was in, I said S of course. She burst out laughing ! "Oh, one of Those !", she said. To which Schneider replied: Egad man, perhaps you simply misunderstood her! Maybe she was just breaking the ice, being friendly. More to the point, at least she reacted to you AT ALL. Two weeks ago I walked into Chan's Trains & Kits in San Francisco to see if they had any Flyer. I asked the saleperson where the Flyer was and he pointed to a glass case, then walked away. I walked over to the case and looked in. Lots of cool stuff, to be sure (including a New Haven PA passenger set I was interested in). But no saleperson. "Hello, can I get some help?" I said aloud. The salesperson wandered back looking bored. I made small talk to fill the silence. At the other end of the store an Asian man--presumably Mr Chan--stared at me. I looked at a few pieces and asked about the price of each one. When the salesperson showed me a case of discounted LTI/AF cars, he towered over me, not saying a word, as I picked through the boxes. When I left, I got the feeling that Mr Chan and his salesperson didn't care if I came back or not. I left with a bad feeling (and more to the point, no charges on my MasterCard Platinum card). I've found this to be true in other hobby stores outside of San Francisco. Model railroaders don't often make good salespeople. They may know their shit, but they often lack even basic people skills. You know, the ones such as, "Hi, how are you?" or "Is there anything special you're looking for?" So take it from me: Be glad when ANYONE in retail recognizes you as a human being in this hobby. Tom finished up with: We have some courageous folks on the business side who have ascended the learning curve, not without error, and are now only a contract with a major toystore chain away from getting over the top...We have S scalers and Flyer enthusiasts who have not only joined to form a larger customer pool but are also cross-fertilizing and influencing each other's work in new and wonderful ways... And now, best of all we have the internet and S-list. Used properly with the right spirit of cooperation, we can link together a host of larger manufacturers, small basement manufacturers, craftsmen, and customers, to produce and sell everything we need. To which Schneider replied: Tom, your heart is in the right place. The picture you paint of an S-gauge network is downright inspiring (I mean it!). But I'd encourage you (and anyone else who shares Tom's dream) to resist the urge to polarize Kalmbach or Walthers. Why not bring them into the circle as part of the team? It certainly can't hurt. And its considerably more productive than painting them as the enemy. Like it or not, Walthers and Kalmbach are King Kong and Godzilla. Wouldn't you rather have both monsters on our side? :-) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2473	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Milwaukee axis to grind

Point by point reply to Paul Schneider: 1. I did not object to Classic Toy trains' concentration on O gauge. I dislike the shallow nature of its material, which reflects a deep disdain for Lionel AND Flyer hobbyists; the poor and misleading qualities of its technical advice; the misperception that toy train operating is a bastard child of true scale model railroading; the advertizer-driven nature of their editorial stance. We are not Neanderthals; they treat us as such. Yet this rag is acclaimed as a leading voice in the hobby. That is not good for us, Paul. 2.In fact, Kalmbach and Walthers DID stage a takeover of the toy train industry and basically forced Gilbert and Lionel out. Therefore, to turn to them for help in growing S gauge strikes me as particularly foolish. Those who don't know history are condemned to repeat it, dig? Model Railroader CLAIMED and taught that you can fit more railroad in the same space. This is what is known as a lie. Flyer's radius of 18.55' is basically the same as most HO starter sets'. And the larger your trains are, the more detail you can model, if so inclined. 3. My point about CTT's pay scale is that they do not attract the best talent which is an increasingly obvious problem. In fact the mag is starting to read like it was written by the secretaries and receptionists. 4. I did not misunderstand the lady at Terminal at all. I won't bore with the complete text of our conversation. She was very pleasant, but plainly to her I was a freak. The help in train stores tend to be unpleasant because people waste an INCREDIBLE amount of their time without buying anything, which is a negative conditioning process over time. This is especially true in a tourist mecca like SF or NYC where visitors tend to get sticker shock from big city prices. If you had made it clear at the outset that you wished to make a purchase, things would have gone more to your liking. 5. Paul, my posting was similar to grabbing someone so they don't walk out in front of a moving truck. Strictly humanitarian. Walthers/Kalmbach is the truck here. They damaged our hobby for 40 years, they continue to disrespect us, but thanks to the internet, WE DON'T NEED THEM ANY MORE. I would rather NOT have King Kong & Godzilla, as you refer to them, inside the tent pissing out thank you very much. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2474	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: RE Tom Jarcho

In Reference to Tom Jarcho's email: #200 Message: 3 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 10:56:22 -0400 (EDT) From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) Subject: MR/Walthers All I can say is AMEN ' S ' Brother Tom AL ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2475	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Mixing it up

Message: 2 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:40:48 -0400 From: Bill Clark <clark@...> Subject: Re: mixing it up <snip> >I do have an old Northern, converted to a can motor, DCC and >sound, that I love. And I've been converting AF pacifics >and 0-8-0 to DC/Can/DCC as well. Bill- I would love to see how you're doing the conversion. I've looked at Paul's schematic of converting to DC but it sounds like you're way beyond that (and probably my skill as well), but any education you can provide will be appreciated. Thanks, Mac The only way of catching a train I have ever discovered is to miss the train before. G.K. Chesterton

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2476	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Can't we all get along?

Guys! As someone who has owned AF since childhood and a recent buyer of O, lets cool it a bit. If you don't care for Walthers don't bother with them, same with Classic toy trains. I like CTT, if I wanted great writing I would pick up a copy of Harpers or the Atlantic Monthly:) Now a few thoughts on the train scene... I found American Models because I went looking for them. Same with S-Helper. A suggestion to them if they are reading: If you are interested in selling starter sets start with a GP-7/9 or a switcher, a boxcar or two, a gondola, a tank car and a caboose all in one road name ie NYC, SF or UP. And SELL THE HELL OUT OF THEM!!!!! Personal preference is toward freight trains with a variety of cars and not passenger trains, I have never seen a passenger train outside of an Amtrak at 2:00AM. If you want S to grow you have to work at it. Work with a national Hobby Shop chain or wholesaler. Right now we are preaching to the converted. I got into O because there is a lot more stuff with Santa Fe and the O manufacturers sell product sporting Rock Island colors. I can't recall all too many engines or rolling stock in S or O sporting Rock Island, it may be a midwest thing. My high school was by the RI mainline through Lincoln, NE and I use to watch many a RI freight during dull class lectures. Trains are suppose to be fun, you know, sit down with the kids and bond, tell exaggerated stories before yelling "got ya":) I am sensitive to poor public service. If a clerk gives me crummy service when I am shopping I WILL remember and when I am ready to buy I will avoid that person or that business. I also don't expect service at Kmart, Target or Best Buy, that's not their mission. If a clerk takes the time to answer all of my questions even if I am not buying, I will go back to that person. It is all a matter of treating others how I want to be treated. I you are too busy or too whatever to give a consistant level of service, get out of public service. Your problems end when once you punch that clock. Well I am rambling as I do all to well, but nothing happens in life unless you try. Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2477	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: MIX IT UP

To answer Paul. I only operate Gilbert on Gargraves track because my wife and I agreed ten years ago that I would only buy Gilbert and my aunt gave me a lot more. I operate on Gargraves track with hi-rail scenery. I, for one, have no problem seeing old and new trains together. Our club modular layout is set up to run old Flyer, new products and scale so we can meet all members needs and display all "S" available. Staying on NASG track, Glenn (remember, only vote once but vote) http://members.xoom.com/northpenn_s/main.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2478	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Fwd: detail parts,again

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2479	From: John Foley	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Manufacturers

Hi Folks I was at the TCA's York Pa. train meet today. I visited with 3rd. Rail, http://www.3rdrail.com NJ International http://www.NJinternational.com Ross Custom Switches P.O. Box 110 North Stonington, CT. 06359 Mort said it's a go for the Zephyr and Flying Yankee not many reservations on the light and heavy Mikado but we will see. NJ International said they will start their S line with their Highway crossing. Steve at Ross Custom Switches says they are working on a Closed frog switch. maybe for this summer. Please feel free to send any comments or ideas to these manufacturers John Foley Eastern VP NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2480	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Re: SW1000/SW1500

In message <371686B1.FEB1A751@...>, Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> writes >SW1000/SW1500 > >This is to be made available as a kit comprising , resin castings >(polyurethane and tooling varieties), photo-etched parts, vacuum formed >parts, formed metal parts, Can Motor with flywheels, some pre assembled >subassemblies. This kit will also make use wher practical and >commercially viable pre-existing components from other suppliers and >manufacturers. >1) what price range do you consider appropriate ??( in $US please) This >has a GREAT bearing on viability. No more than the SHS SW9 > >2) any special considerations in terms of detail ?? Etched Brass cab >3) likes/dislikes ?? Full detail - if its a kit you can decide to leave it off >4) would you be inclined to buy one/more ?? two >5) anything else you think is relevant!! Timescale? >Please note that the product WOULD exist prior to monies being >accepted.When orders are confirmed the product will be ready to ship. >This is not lets see how much I can get up front and then go ahead. Richard Are you behind this? or are you fronting for somebody else? If so who? What experiance have you/who ever in piutting together a multi-medium kit like this? Regards -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2481	From: L Montgomery	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Another Market for S Scale Detail Parts

Hi folks, I'm a Christmastime only AF operator so I'm no authority but the discussion of marketplace forces has prompted me to repost my earlier message below. I think the manufactures of S Scale detail parts should consider that for some items there is likely a secondary market among the ceramic village collectors. Things like an S Scale baggage cart, figures, vehicles, (an REA truck comes to mind), signs, etc. All you need to do is add some "snow" on top and voila. I even think a stationary train on SHS track (with snowy patches) might sell. I'm sure many "villagers" (village people?) do not have room for a track oval or any interest in operating trains. Some don't even try to hide the wires to the building lights. All they are after is a winter diorama. If you look at most post-Dickens ceramic villages they all seem to include a train staion. Wouldn't it look nice to have some track in front of it with a lighted steam locomotive, perhaps smoke coming from the stack, and a few lighted passenger cars (with snow on their roofs) sitting at the station? You could use the same lighting system that's used for Dept56 street lights so you wouldn't even need to buy a transformer. Then maybe a few of these folks might evolve into model railroaders (see below). And they could still use the stuff they had. Monty P.S. Here's the posting I mentioned above. Message: 14 Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 02:05:39 -0000 From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@... Subject: Recruiting New S-scale Consumers Hi all, <snip> Here are my half baked theories: 1. People are buying ceramic Christmas villages by the boatload. (Let X= your estimate of number of households having christmas villages next year) 2. S scale trains are the most appropriate and practical scale trains for ceramic villages. 3. Ceramic villages are not appropriate for the diesel era (there are no ceramic strip malls to my knowledge). 4. A significant percentage of the people who buy ceramic villages would be happy to buy a fault tolerant (i.e., with sectional track that doen't cause derailments if on less than optimal surfaces), reasonably kidproof (its easier to justfy the purchase if the kids can play with it) steam passenger train to run around the perimeter of their ceramic village. (Let Y=your estimate of above percentage) 5. Population X/Y typically doesn't know a feedwater heater from a firebox but they know that a steam engines smokes, chugs and whistles. 6. Population X/Y typically knows how to plug in a lanp and operate a dimmer switch but that's about it. 7. Population X/Y is about as sophisticated about trains as we were when we were 7-8 years old. 8. A portion (Z) of population X/Y will catch the train bug the way we did when we were 7-8 years old and become interested in model railroading. 10. Population X/Y/Z will want to build more elaborate layouts but they'll want to utilize the stuff they already have. 11. Population X/Y/Z will discover that there is a ton of vintage American Flyer stuff that will work just great with their layouts. 12. The manufacturers of the "goes great with ceramic villages" trains will have enough money and a big enough market to produce a die cast N&W class K-2 locomotive with add-on detail parts or [fill in your personal wish list]. I think population X/Y/Z could be significant enough to make S scale vibrant once again. But it's going to take time. I can appreciate that model railroaders don't want to wait to get new products produced that fit their layouts. I'm just saying that newbies are needed to build up the market for S-stuff and the ceramic village fad/craze/whatever should be siezed upon to help pay the freight for specialized products and bring more people into the hobby. Opps... that was $.03 worth. I exceeded my pixel limit. Sorry. Monty -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2482	From: PatnDave	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Fw: S scale detailing parts

Super detailers of S scale modern diesel locomotives, Below is a response I did not expect to receive from Dan Crews of SUNRISE ENTERPRISES in regards to an e-mail I sent just this morning. I thought you should read it for yourself. -----Original Message----- From: Dan Crews <sunrise@...> To: PatnDave <patndave@...> Date: Friday, April 16, 1999 12:47 PM Subject: Re: S scale detailing parts >Dave, > >I think S Scale could be a major product line for us but we need modelers to get >on the band wagon so to speak. The parts you suggested was on my list of do >things for S Scale, I would imagine if this fails to help boost the line in >sales S Scale may loose one of there only chances of have a major part line >available. > >I have no problem with 200 parts in our S Scale line as long as we have sales to >back up our efforts. So I leave it up to all to help this cause. Our Scale >bell is the finest in the S market and it might as well be an apple on a dead >tree. > >We will give this more time before making a final decision either way. S Scale >parts can only be purchased direct or through Walthers. The only other stores >with these products is Trackside Trains and Des Plaines which we have not heard >from in months. > >http://www.psln.com/sunrise > >Many thanks, > >Dan >Sunrise > >PatnDave wrote: > >> Hello, >> Just a note to say thank you for the S parts that you've done up to now. I >> have most of the line and love 'em. I think they're absolutely exquisite! >> It's a shame there isn't more of a call for them. Because of this and since >> I need more for use and stock anyway, I'm going to be placing my order with >> you directly as the complete line is difficult to find in local or mail >> order shops. >> I'm glad to see you had added ditch lights to your S line of parts. Though I >> can understand your incentive to continue to ad to the S line is probably >> not too good, I certainly hope you can and will continue if only at a slower >> interaction rate as opposed to completely dropping the line. >> in the event you might still be considering additional parts for the future, >> I'd still like see you do the modern style MU electrical receptacles with >> lids open and closed and the jumpers for these. another item would be spare >> coupler knuckles and holders as also found on locomotive pilots. >> Thanks for listening and for what you've done so far. >> Dave Bailey > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2483	From: Bill Banta	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Re: Milwaukee axis to grind

Yo dudes, more wood! I love it!.... b. banta

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2484	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Re: mixing it up

> >I've never heard of a can motor conversion (don't even know what a can >motor is!). In fact, I thought the AF steamers are considered "good >runners." I presume the can motors improve operations, huh? > A can motor looks like a tiny tin can with a shaft either running through it or coming out one end. They are DC powered. Lionel AF diesels have these. Gilbert motors were mostly universal (AC or DC) except for a few DC only, clearly marked in the engine number. Yes, the old Gilbert motors are reliable. Can motors require no maintenance (you cannot open them), the run cooler, require less power, and can run at much slower speeds. The lower power requirement makes them easier to run under DCC. Gilbert universal motors require rectifiers before conversion to DCC. > >A friend of mine warned me that AF diesels are pretty crappy runners. >He also said the Lionel/AF stuff wasn't much better. Is that true? I >don't have any Lionel/AF diesels yet, but I'd like to get my hands on >an EP5 (in Milwaukee Road paint, the old home road you know!) > Your friend is right. And I have not found a practical way to convert them to can motors. But by all means go for the trains you want. Just be prepaired to service them. >But the engines I love are my SouthWind 2-8-0, American >> Models Pacific, SHS SW9s. The currently available items from >independant >> manufacturers run much better than Lionel. And the new stuff is so >much >> more realistic. > >I saw an ad for the American Models Pacific (Milwaukee Road, >coincidentally). Very nice. I need to get an AM and SHS catalog to see >what's available. I also see AM and SHS on eBay occasionally (but not >a lot). > >What's the deal with track? It sounds like you eschew AF track and >switches for SHS track. What about couplers? Do you stick with AF or >do you switch your equipment to Kadees? > I abandoned AF track because it is not flexible (literally.) With flex track I can shape it any way I want. I have limited my curves to 27" radii for more reliable operation. Modern track is MUCH more realistic. I use knuckle couplers. Most new stuff is available with couplers compatable with Gilbert. >Sorry to ask so many questions, but I'm just now realizing how little >I know about the hobby I just stepped into! :-) > Keep asking. That's why we are all here.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2485	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 4/16/1999
Subject: Publicity

Golly Gee, I'm a bit hesitant to jump in here since since magazine editors Jeff Madden and Bill Wade have not spoken their piece, but some of the major purposes of the S magazines are to run press releases, advertisements, product reviews, and how-to articles about S scale products. If there are manufacturers who are not taking advantage of that, the whole S community is short changed. Manufacturer's send in your press releases. Include photos. Include descriptions of how to use the items. For detail parts, include descriptions of what equipment and what years they are correct for. Users, send in your review and your how-to's. Then we can buy those products and the manufacturers will make enough money to advertise in those S publications. Every body can win, but I think the manufacturers have to start the ball rolling. Regarding mixing AF with non-AF equipment, the members of the Rochester Area S Gaugers do that all the time. But we also enjoy running trains that are 100% AF. Somebody wrote about converting AF to can motors. I'd love to see a How-to article on that in one of the magazines. Regarding how-to, there has been a lot of enthusiasm regarding converting On3 to S. I'd love to see a kit for doing that. I'd love to see a kit for converting AF to lo-rail; replacement wheels is the major needed item. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/marchweb.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2486	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 4/17/1999
Subject: Re: Publicity

Ted Larson wrote: > ... some of the major > purposes of the S magazines are to run press > releases, advertisements, product reviews, and > how-to articles about S scale products. If there > are manufacturers who are not taking advantage > of that, the whole S community is short changed. Don't overlook the free resources availble on the internet. Paul Yorke's site and Craig O'Connell's S Scale Homepage offer product information and manufacturers links. If I find anyone asking questions about what's available in S, I send people to these sites. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2487	From: Chasbo86@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/17/1999
Subject: info

My sister-in-law was going thru some of my deceased brothers stuff and found a Lionel 18006 Reading locomotive plus a # 254 engine and two # 607 passenger cars and one # 608 passenger car. She said she thinks he paid a lot for the 18006. Can anyone give me any information as to the value of these and is anyone interested in buying them ? I would buy them but all I have is American Flyer. Charlie Bowen

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2488	From: John Foley	Date: 4/17/1999
Subject: S Brass

>Date: Sat, 17 Apr 1999 20:11:21 -0700 >To: Proto64 >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: S Brass > >Hi Folks > I was at a GATS show in FT Washington Pa. today promoting S and the >NASG. A fellow I never met before told me he had some S brass for sale. >Some of the items he mentioned was a omnicon 2-8-0, Some NYC pass. cars >and a SW-7 or a SW-12 he wasn't sure which. He taked about some painted >and upainted frieght cars. His name and address is > Richard Brown > 29 W. Baltimore Pike > Clifton Heights, Pa. > Phone 610 622-2184 > > John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2489	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 4/17/1999
Subject: Weekend Report

This week the Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop meeting was hosted by the Minnesota Heartland. In addition to all of the convention business, we did some work on the layout, Walt had one of the Soundtrax units making noise and Milt made some sparks while he finished doing electrical wiring. One of the highlights was when Barry Karlberg stopped in. Barry is our banquet speaker for the convention and his visit convinced us again that we made a great choice. Barry's love for trains started with his American Flyer and he is still going strong. Now he is a train master for the Minnesota Commercial Railroad but his career includes the IC, the C&NW, the SOO and the WC. He has more great stories than we could ever include in one evening. Barry also knew the "Don" of S, Mr. Heimberger, when Don was just a teen. We asked if he could supply any stories about Don but he will not commit. Layout work is progressing slowly, I need to do some "infrastructure" work so the mainline is still not completely in. I will admit, that I am going slow on the mainline anyway because if it were open, I would spend more time running trains than working. I am glad to hear that there are more conspiracies in the Milwaukee area than the one all the Viking fans tell about the Packers. Ken

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2490	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/17/1999
Subject: Racing Champions buys ERTL -- No April Fooling!

This came out of nowhere! Maybe we'll see better ERTL distribution now? -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Racing Champions Completes Acquisition Of The Ertl Company, Inc. GLEN ELLYN, IL, April 14, 1999 -- Racing Champions Corporation (NASDAQ: RACN) today announced that it has completed the acquisition of The Ertl Company, Inc., one of the oldest and most respected names in collectibles. The transaction will be accounted for as a purchase. With $175 million in annual revenues, Ertl� is the market leader in both agricultural and custom imprint die-cast collectibles. Racing Champions funded the all-cash purchase price of approximately $105 million with the proceeds of a drawdown under its $175 million Senior Credit Facility, provided by a bank syndicate led by First Union Capital Markets Corp. Bob Dods, Chairman and CEO, said, "The acquisition of Ertl represents a very exciting opportunity to expand Racing Champions' participation in the rapidly expanding market for collectibles. Many of the management and operating capabilities which have contributed to our success in NASCAR die-cast collectibles also have direct application to Ertl's product lines. We look forward to not only realizing significant synergies from combining our two companies, but to leveraging our already well-known brand identities across wider distribution channels to further heighten our profile within the collectibles market." Founded in 1989, Racing Champions (http://www.racingchampions.com) is a leading producer and marketer of collectibles available at more than 20,000 retail outlets throughout North America. The company is best known for its extensive lines of officially licensed NASCAR die-cast racing replicas, Press Pass trading cards and NASCAR souvenirs and apparel. Additional high profile, licensed die-cast series include WCW, Sony Signatures, Outdoor Life and Field & Stream.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2491	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/17/1999
Subject: Royal Blue

now if only someone could make a conversion kit of this body for flyer hudson and pacific running gear..........(just think of the fun in finding the royal blue tender for it!!) hope to hear from someone!-john marganski John: I just got back from York where, at the close of the show, I picked up a big box of pre-war 3/16 O Flyer. Included was a Royal blue eng & tender, repainted in a light blue. I am finally going to build my detailed Blue. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2492	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: I just can't see it

Tom Jarcho said: >Imagine what it >must be like to be about 35 years old and build a nice N gauge railroad. >Then all of a sudden you turn 40 and can't see it anymore! Hell, Tom, I'm 52 and I can't see HO anymore! Why do you think there is so much interest in G gauge? Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2493	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: I just can't see it

Tom Jarcho said: >Imagine what it >must be like to be about 35 years old and build a nice N gauge railroad. >Then all of a sudden you turn 40 and can't see it anymore! Hell, Tom, I'm 52 and I can't see HO anymore! Why do you think there is so much interest in G gauge? Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2494	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: A REAL Mix-Up

Glenn Ritter wrote: >I only operate Gilbert on Gargraves track because my >wife and I agreed ten years ago that I would only buy Gilbert and >my aunt gave me a lot more. You have an agreement with your wife which limits your rolling stock to Gilbert manufacture? Ten years ago there was not too much else in hi-rail anyway. Could you possibly call for a meeting with the missus and re-negotiate terms in light of the recent spate of production coming out of SHS and AM? Sounds like you model the ALASKA RailRoad. My wife wants me to consult with her before I spend money on trains, so before I'll buy, I'LL ASK HER. Say Hi to your aunt for me. If she needs help with spring cleaning, I'm free weekends! BIG :-) Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2495	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue

John Marganski wrote: >hey,chris,that's great-are you going to do it as the cincinattian? i found an >0 RB last year, vg+ so i won't do anything with it-except run,run,run-by the >way if the tender number(on the bottom)is 555c, you have a 1942(rare) >choo-choo tender. if you want to convert it to S, you're in for a lot of >work. the shell doesn't have the lugs for a pilot truck! i started one a >coupla yrs ago and that's my hang-up-stuck! i put a 5 digit pacific chassis >in it,bored the stack open, added a 293 rear truck and overland trucks(from a >beat franklin set) to the tender.repainted,relettered,want it to pull the AM >B+O heavy weights-which i added sillouettes and lights to-and i haven't run >it cuz it looks kinda silly with no front truck. if you figure this one >out,please let me know-john marganski >whoops-almost forgot-if you've got the tin coaches for the blue,and don't >want them-PLEASE LET ME KNOW!!! thanks-j.marganski Thanks for the tip, John. I'll check this shell out. I also have another post-war Blue shell, I just preferred to have the one with separate handrails. I am going for the fully detailed version of the original Otto Kuhler Royal Blue. I would like to see a color swatch of the original paint somewhere. I noticed in the "B&O Power" book that there is a contrasting stripe high on the rear side of the tender. What color was that? The engine came in a box of odd junk. Included were 2 Atlantics and 2 Pennsy K-4/K-5 Pacifics. Also included were 2 tin coaches, 2 baggage cars, and the mail pick-up car. All were disassembled and raw metal (all the paint stripped). By the chassis for the mail car, the only piece not cleaned, I could thell that these cars had been green. Maybe not all of them? BTW, the tender does have a motorized sound unit installed, so I guess it is your rarie! CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2496	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue

Here's a leetle question for you maniac converters of O gauge Royal Blues to S: How do you cut the tiny square hole in the cylinder insert which is necessary to move the main rod link inwards? Or do you just leave it hanging out there at O gauge width? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2497	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue Colors

I saw a question about a color swatch for the original, prototype Royal Blue. I hope the answer gets posted since I am also interested. And wait, there's more...... Does anyone on the list have access to prototype information about the coaches, diners and whatnot that made up the original train. I have a book with a list of the 8 cars in the train and a couple of B&W 3/4 shots of the locomotive. Sadly, the cars are off in the distance and it is not possible to make out the lettering and where the blue and gray were painted. I tried to log onto the B&O historical society, but I was rejected. So, is there information to be found? Book, magazine article, fond remembrance, solid guesswork? Later, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2498	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: New S Scale

New S scale; standard gauge and narrow gauge products are coming! >From Feb. '99 Mainline Modeler; Trout Creek Engineering has recently purchased Classic Miniatures and Taurus Products. It is their intention to fully continue these lines, and to expand them in the future. The Classic Miniature line consists of 25 HO scale buildings, six S scale buildings, and six O scale buildings. The Taurus line consists of five HO freight cars, one S freight car, one O freight car, six HO buildings one S building, two O buildings, seventeen HO car and building parts. The HO lines are far more extensive than the S and O lines, and will be used as the basis for expanding the S and O scale lines. A few months back they purchased Valley Car Works, an On3 line or freight cars, which they'll start expanding into HO and S. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/marchweb.htm ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2499	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue

I converted an Atlantic from O to S. I left the wider O steam chest on and no one has ever noticed (or they're too kind to mention it). I merely formed the driving rods a little with finger pressure to aim inward a little and she runs fine. In fact, I later upgraded it by adding smoke and choo choo to the s classis and a rectifier reverse unit for DC. The S chassis was originally a cheap 5 digit with manual reverse. Jarcho wrote: > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > Here's a leetle question for you maniac converters of O gauge Royal Blues > to S: How do you cut the tiny square hole in the cylinder insert which is > necessary to move the main rod link inwards? Or do you just leave it > hanging out there at O gauge width? Tom Jarcho > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shop.theglobe.com * One-Stop Shopping * Free Shipping in U.S.! > Live Personal Shopper * Satisfaction Guaranteed * No Hassle Returns! > Accessories, Apparel, Jewelry, Kids, Sporting Goods, Apparel, More!! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2500	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue Colors

Bill, B&O Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment by Craig T. Bossler, Morning Sun Books, 1996 has good color side and angled shots of B&O passenger equipment built from the 1920's on. The Train Collectors Quarterly (TCA), January 1997 has a B&W photograph of the 1937 Royal Blue sitting on a stone viaduct. While the passenger cars are small in this photo, it is clear enough to see that the "BALTIMORE AND OHIO" is under the windows. In Bossler, all the cars are lettered with "BALTIMORE AND OHIO" above the windows. However, all the photos in Bossler that are dated, are dated after the war. Since the photo in the TCA quarterly shows the 1937 engine, I presume that we are seeing the 1930s paint scheme on the cars. The color banding and striping in the TCA photograph appears similar to that of car 1304 in Bossler. Carl R. Byron wrote the TCA article. He might be a further source of information. I also have hopes of doing the 1937 Royal Blue train, so please post any further information that you come across. Thanks, Roger Delthony Bill Porter wrote: > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > > I saw a question about a color swatch for the original, prototype Royal > Blue. I hope the answer gets posted since I am also interested. And wait, > there's more...... > > Does anyone on the list have access to prototype information about the > coaches, diners and whatnot that made up the original train. I have a book > with a list of the 8 cars in the train and a couple of B&W 3/4 shots of the > locomotive. Sadly, the cars are off in the distance and it is not possible > to make out the lettering and where the blue and gray were painted. I tried > to log onto the B&O historical society, but I was rejected. So, is there > information to be found? Book, magazine article, fond remembrance, solid > guesswork? > > Later, > Bill Porter > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Jansport Daytripper the perfect pack for short spring and summer > excursions*Key clip keeps keys handy*Front organizer pocket*Weighs1lb* > Capacity 2200 cu in! Members Pay $34.00*Free Shipping in US > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe1 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2501	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue Colors

Thanks Roger, I'll put your note in my Royal Blue file and I promise to keep you informed. The book I have with the photos in it is: "The Streamline Era" by Robert C. Reed - published by Golden West Books (c) 1975. Page 115 has a photo of the RB on a stone viaduct - from the right side of the loco - could it be the same one you have? On the same page is a nice head on shot of the engine. The facing page (114) has the train at speed from the left side. It too is a 3/4 shot from in front of the loco. The following page (116) has 3 interior shots and a photo of the tail end of the modified observation car. Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Roger Delthony <delthony@...> . . . I also have hopes of doing the 1937 Royal Blue train, so please post any further information that you come across. Thanks, Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2502	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Re: Web Address

>> Do you have the web address for Craig O'Connell's home page? Craig's S Scale Model Railrooading Homepage is at: http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2503	From: Don Abrams	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Mixing

Paul, Mixing isn't a sin, it's a benefit. You can run pretty much anything you want as a Hi-railer. Run the things you wish Gilbert had made back in the '50's; like doubled boxcars, 50 ft. gons, bay window cabooses, F7s, FAs, SW-9s, etc. Love my American Models GG1. Couple everything together with the Gilbert compatible couplers -- have a ball. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2504	From: Gale Hall	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: B&O 5304

There is an excellent article in the Sep/Oct 1981 S Gaugian on the Royal Blue Pacific P-7. There is a blue tone photo of the loco in 1937 and the paint on the upper part of the tender matches the roofs of the passenger cars trailing it......this color could be silver or aluminum. A 1951 photo shows a different paint scheme with a lot of pin striping and a slanted leading edge on the tender striping as opposed to the 1937 semicircular leading edge stripe. There were four engines in the bullet design 5301, 02, 03 and 04 goes on to say the non streamlined pacifics, were painted blue with gold side rods and driver rims in the 40's And the 5304 was destreamlined in 1940 and the design did not win general public favor.....and the AF version is the 1937 design. Nothing about the exact color of blue is mentioned or a brand name listed. Gale Hall _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2505	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Out of the Closet

With all this talk of the visual problems of the aged with respect to model trains, I figured it was time for me to come out of the closet. I am 53 and not only can I see N scale just fine, but I also model in that gauge (horrors) in addition to my primary interest in American Flyer. My reasons are several, but they all revolve around my lack of space. I love Flyer and consider myself both a collector and operator. I want to operate them just like AC built them. I try not to turn basket cases into something else, but rather restore them to what they once were. To me, can motors and DCC in a Flyer locomotive is heresy, but if that is what you like it's fine with me. I can enjoy Flyer in a semiscale environment with 19 inch radius curves, which are grossly unrealistic. I would like to use a more reasonable 27 or 30 inch radius, but I just don't have the room. Here is where N scale comes in. I can do my scale modeling in N and get that wide radius at 10 or 11 inch radius and that I have room for. My N scale layout is along the wall of a storage room and measures 30x60 inches, with a 15 inch x9 foot shelf extension and depicts a mountainous short line. My Flyer layout is in progress in the garage and is being designed to share space with the car, with a U shape around the back of one side of the two car garage, with one removable bridge across the top of the U and another to a 4x8 foot fold off the wall unit which currently holds an oval and bypass. This bi-scale approach works for me, but I spend much more time with Flyer. At the shows, all the N scale guys can seem to do is show how you can pull a 100 car train of hoppers (finished off with a flashing EOTD), from one N-track module to another. This is not my idea of excitement. I model a small, but distinctive railroad in a small scale. Most N scalers think because the scale is small, you should model something big. As for Flyer, it was my first love and I can enjoy it as representative of the amazing technology of another era. It doesn't have to be total scale. I can get that elsewhere. So now my secret is out. I feel better already.:-) > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > > Tom Jarcho said: > >Imagine what it > >must be like to be about 35 years old and build a nice N gauge railroad. > >Then all of a sudden you turn 40 and can't see it anymore! > busy-boy wrote: > Hell, Tom, I'm 52 and I can't see HO anymore! > Why do you think there is so much interest in G gauge? > > Chris Zizzo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > You can now easily share photos and documents with your fellow list members > http://www.ONElist.com > Check out our homepage for details on how to use our new shared files feature! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Dale Smith Pacifica, California

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2506	From: Donald E. Munsey, Jr.	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Building Easyville

Friend"S", There are a few S-folk here in the UpperRightCorner of Louisiana and I'm trying to put together a operating layout for our local train show in September 1999. I've decided that a simple 4x8 Flyer layout like The Easyville Shortline would be a good place to start. BUT... I need help locating a copy of the entire layout construction series by Dick Cataldi "Building the Easyville Shortline Railroad". I have the middle part (I think) that appeared in The HEARLD (Vol XXI #1, June 1988, pg 26). Does anyone out there in S-land have the other parts (or any other Easyville articles) they can copy and send to me (at my expense). I also have a pair of operable remote control turnouts (NO controller) I'd like to swap for one righthand and two lefthand manual turnouts to complete the track needed for the layout. Anyone interested? Please respond off-list. THANK'S'. -- Big Swede (aka Don Munsey, Jr.) UpperRightCorner of Louisiana StoryTeller, CopperSmith, S/Sn3 ModelRailroader & Bonsai grasshopper. A Recovering Forester now teaching High School Geometry!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2507	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: B&O 5304

In a message dated 4/18/99 9:52:48 PM, gale_hall@... writes: << There is an excellent article in the Sep/Oct 1981 S Gaugian on the Royal Blue Pacific P-7. There is a blue tone photo of the loco in 1937 and the paint on the upper part of the tender matches the roofs of the passenger cars trailing it......this color could be silver or aluminum. A 1951 photo shows a different paint scheme with a lot of pin striping and a slanted leading edge on the tender striping as opposed to the 1937 semicircular leading edge stripe. >> A good article, but please be careful. They mix up pictures of the "Royal Blue" with the "Cincinnatian" (This is a common boo-boo.). The "Cincinnatian" is the one on the cover in color. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2508	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Blue, Blue, Blue

Tom Jarcho wrote: Here's a leetle question for you maniac converters of O gauge Royal Blues to S: How do you cut the tiny square hole in the cylinder insert which is necessary to move the main rod link inwards? Or do you just leave it hanging out there at O gauge width? Tom: With a teeny leetle square drill bit! Apparently, there is more to converting the blue shell to S than meets the eye. The pilot truck mounting is another issue. Probably, I will use the spare S shell I have for superdetailing, unless I decide to do some steam chest (and other) fabricating. Re: Bill Porter's, Roger Delthony's, & John Marganski's comments and resources on B&O colors, I pose this question. Did the B&O vary its blue and grey hues over the years? Is it possible to find a 1937 color reference for the road? I am making the assumption that this engine was painted in B&O's standard blue and not some special color dreamed up for just this train. I am also assuming that areas showing a contrasting stripe on the tender are the standard gray. If this assumption stands, then a B&W photograph of the 1937 loco, tender and one car, should yield enough info to build and paint the train. I would like to see that obs. car, though. John M.: the tender IS stamped 555C on the bottom. I'm thinking about using the cars. I'll let you know soon. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2509	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Royal Blue

If I were converting an O ga Royal Blye to S, I would mount the pilot truck on a frame extension made from a steel strip or 2 and mounted under the headlight in a 46-47 chassis or the smoke unit in a later chassis. Also, I considered this conversion once, and my impression was that the O ga. shell weighs more than the S ga. one, so there may be some other surprise lurking in the weeds in the form of extra material that has to be cut away. Tom J

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2510	From: michael prell	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Spiral Layout

I've seen write-ups describing spirals used in ho layouts and always thought it a neat idea for S-gauge. Has anyone been successful at doing this for multiple layering for a layout. If so, how'd you do it? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2511	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: A York report

This York seemed strange. Although the crowds �felt� high in numbers, the number of empty tables at both the pre-meet activities and York itself were greater than usual. I believe that opening up York on the second day to the public would help allot and would also yield a greater number of new recruits for the TCA. Nice post war Flyer was the thinnest I have ever seen at a York. What was there was often quite high in $. Many basic items did not show up. Accessories and good steam were really thin. On the other hand, some unusual items did appear, often in multiples. For example, the factory prototype of the Oil Drum Loader appeared. Five Whites boxcars by my count were offered for sale, probably prompted by the recent CTT article. A boxed 21195 New Haven Pacific, a '47 Northern, and three #484 sets (nice trains but no boxes) from 1952 were offered for sale. These observations tend to reinforce my view that the quantum theory applies to train collecting, i.e., pieces appear in bunches. I am told by collectors of post war Lionel that this is becoming the case for their area as well. I believe that part of the cause of this situation is that the economy is good and folks are holding on to their desirable stuff. SHS had a great display in Purple Hall of their newest pieces and the new F-3 A-B done in Burlington colors. Being a masochist, I did visit the Lionel tent. What I heard and felt about strong continuance and growth of American Flyer was NOT reassuring. The folks at Chesterfield do not have a clue about the S gauge area. Period! I felt that MTH had the superior presence given that Mike Wolf and Lenny Dean were there to talk with folks, repair facilities were available, etc. Aside from the gripes, I had a great time as usual York is always THE EXPERIENCE. Since folks do ask, I did come home with two items of note: a boxed 594 Track Gang and a 21129 Hudson. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2512	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: [Fwd: JPEG image 640x480 pixels]

Chuck Smith found the attached picture of the 1937 Royal Blue. This is the one to which I referred. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2513	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: A York report

RB Your note was espcially interesting as a NIB track gang just sold yesterday on eBay for $4,901.02!!! I would assume that at York that price could be discounted some?? Interesting how many factory prototypes seem to have survived. I guess even when the factory was sold off, someone considered their future importance. Sorry to hear about Big L's ignorance, although it's no surprise. I suspect almost any of our list members could run the AF division and make them money! And make a lot of AF operators happy too. I wonder if eBay is hitting York, or maybe the real economy (as opposed to what the Gov't. tells us the economy is doing) my family's resort business has been off 20% this last quarter. What does that say about 'recreation money' ?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2514	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Spiral Layout

Paul Raham in Ontario has a spiral connecting two layers of his scale layout. I saw it several years ago, and don't remember much more than that. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2515	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Royal Blue pic

Neat! Amazing how accurate the AF one really is. I've seen another photo years ago, but this one really shows it. I used to think the AF one was just a 'looks like' type body, but it's fairly accurate in many details. Still, wasn't this a "one only" real loco? Funny how they decided which locos to base their line on, some of the other steamers were oddities too. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2516	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: the economy & York

To back up David Dewey bout the economy: according to the gov't it's great. Well, figures lie and liars figure. A small group is doing better and a large group is doing worse. Many danger signs have manifested themselves. York/ebay strangeness is only one. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2517	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: York report - typo

The '#484 set' SHOULD read #434. Sorry. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2518	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: A York report

In a message dated 4/19/99 12:14:05 PM, djdewey@... writes: << Your note was espcially interesting as a NIB track gang just sold yesterday on eBay for $4,901.02!!! I would assume that at York that price could be discounted some??>> Discounted a lot!!! <<Sorry to hear about Big L's ignorance, although it's no surprise. I suspect almost any of our list members could run the AF division and make them money! And make a lot of AF operators happy too.>> Oh, yes!!! <<I wonder if eBay is hitting York, or maybe the real economy (as opposed to what the Gov't. tells us the economy is doing) my family's resort business has been off 20% this last quarter. What does that say about 'recreation money' ? S' David D. >> Good points. I agree. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2519	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: AF with others, sure.

I run whatever's fun. Mostly '46-'66 AC Gilbert S-Gauge AF, with some LTI/AM motive power and/or rolling stock, AF/Marx/Lionel accessories (e.g. L-182 crane), and whatever. Some day when the basement is finished and I have my official train room, I hope to have a layout with mostly S-gauge, but with running room for O, and HO (Flyer made some neat pieces in these too), and N (my 5-year old son has take to these). Trains, what a blast.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2520	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: ACG AF Diesels

I've got two that run great (470, 371). They didn't at first, but after replacing their old worn chassis with later released LTI chassis (with bushings), and some TLC (tuning, lubrication, and care), they fly. While they can't crawl as slowly as my AM GG1, they're strong as oxen and can go about 185 scale mph (fun for an TTO like me). In fact, I just bought a few more chassis as spares to have on hand in case I buy more AF diesels that need a second lease on life. PS You can add bushings to old chassis. This has been discussed at length on this list. That allows you to use original wheels, etc. The later model chassis come with axles, gears, and wheels of different vintage, so if you're worried about originality you might want to consider the bushing route. I find it simpler to use a new chassis. They cost $18-25 a piece.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2521	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Royal Blue Note or Two

Hi Ya'll, Thank you Roger for the nice photograph. It is the same one as printed in the Robt. C. Reed book I mentioned. Only, yours is a bit larger than the one in the book. I ordered the Bossler book and a reprint of the S Gaugian article from Don of the Heims. Chris, the colors are not critical to me. I know that things fade over time and the correct color must really have a date, time, ambient lighting conditions, viewing angle, color sensitivity of the sensor (film or retina) and degree of dirtiness associated with it. My interest was in getting something close and then having a go at it. The lighting conditions in my train room are almost certainly different that those along the Potomac. Placement of stripes and lettering are a bit more reproducible and I appreciate your help on all of it. The Reed book has a photo of the back and the inside of the observation car. I'll have a go at capturing and posting them when I return from a trip this week. Why did Gilbert make a Royal Blue when there was only one (remodeled 1927 President Class Pacific) instance of the prototype? It is tough to assess without time travel and telepathy. My guess would be that there were already models being made in another scale of the 20th Century with Dreyfuss treatment. Without wanting to copy but still seeking a streamliner they picked one with nice color The streamlined K4s for the Broadway Limited on the PRR doesn't have the same zip. Later, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2522	From: Jarcho	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

As far as I can tell, there were three factors that governed Flyer's (and Lionel's) choice of prototypes to model. 1. They offered trains that had received a lot of print publicity, such as the early streamliners, the Canadian Pacific transcon. service (Silver Flash), the K-5. the Pennsy turbine, the Hudson,etc. I would be very surprised if the original Royal Blue service was not introduced with a barrage of publicity, since the B & O was competing against stronger railroads by offering more attractive service. The first warbonnet Santa Fe PA's were used in a blitz including a reception and public viewing in New York's Grand Central Station, even though they had to be towed in since only electric locos were permitted in the Park Ave. viaduct. There was in fact only one PA ever painted in the blue and yellow scheme, and it pulled a nationwide display train for I believe GE, again to much publicity. Northern Pacific used to run ads in Life magazine. 2. They tried to have some regional balance since they were trying to sell toy trains all over the country. I think this explains the MoPac diesels and the Seaboard switcher. 3. They tended to model prototypes that were near the factory. Flyer did the New Haven PA's, orange stripe passenger cars, the EP-5, New Haven boxcar, Guilford and Mystic stations, Branford diner. A crane very much like the 644-944 was stationed at New Haven station, within a mile of the Gilbert factory. The Union Station bears an amazing resemblance to the New Haven Ct station. Lionel did many prototypes from near their New Jersey factory, incl. Lackawanna and Jersey Central diesels, the Madison cars, and electric mu passenger cars. In later years, Gilbert also had a fondness for building cars from the car builder's cyclopedia, such as the 719-919 coal dump car. Of course manufacturing and cost limitations played a major role as well. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2523	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

<<They offered trains that had received a lot of print publicity, such as the early streamliners, the Canadian Pacific transcon. service (Silver Flash), the K-5. the Pennsy turbine, the Hudson,etc.>> The AF 'Silver Flash' probably falls under the 'local influence' items. The scheme on the 53-56 Flashes is a very close copy of a B + M scheme in the 50's (See the ad on pg. 93 of Trains Classic, 1999.). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2524	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: A York report

In a message dated 4/19/99 2:03:27 PM, djdewey@... writes: << Your note was espcially interesting as a NIB track gang just sold yesterday on eBay for $4,901.02!!! I would assume that at York that price could be discounted some??>> Discounted a lot!!! Yikes! <<Interesting how many factory prototypes seem to have survived. I guess even when the factory was sold off, someone considered their future importance.>> Yup. There was a special auction for many of the prototypes, and Maury Romer possessed several for a time before selling them. <<Sorry to hear about Big L's ignorance, although it's no surprise. I suspect almost any of our list members could run the AF division and make them money! And make a lot of AF operators happy too.>> Ah, yes!! <<I wonder if eBay is hitting York, or maybe the real economy (as opposed to what the Gov't. tells us the economy is doing) my family's resort business has been off 20% this last quarter. What does that say about 'recreation money' ?? S' David D. >> Good points. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2525	From: david s garber	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: re-subscribe

back from york.please re subscribe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2526	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

Dear Tom, If you look at the new plastic cars that AC Gilbert made in 1946, many were in the 1937 Car Builders Cyclopedia. pg 118 X-29 PRR boxcar photo pg 119 X-29 PRR boxcar drawing pg 207 CNW flatcar photo pg 208 CNW flatcar drawing pg 220 T&P gondola drawing pg 247 T&P gondola photo pg 263 ARA 2 bay hopper drawing pg 293 LNE 2 bay ARA hopper photo pg 367 RDG caboose photos pg 495 UP 200 ton hoist photo pg 512 NYC Magor side dump hopper photo (not made by AF in 1946) pg 514 Magor side dump hopper drawing (not made by AF in 1946) pg 551 B&M Osgood Bradley coach photo pg 560 B&M Osgood Bradley coach photos and drawings pg 614 PRR 60' baggage photo and drawings The real neat thing about AC Gilbert is that he made state of the art trains for children that were scale models and operated on two rails. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2527	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

Another very important factor is sponsorship. Remember what happened to the Celanese Chemical Tank car? "How much are they paying us?" was the question. I recall a spot where Maury Romer was being interviewed, and he was at the toy fair, and his quote went something like, "they (the railroads), came up to me and asked me how much it would cost to get their name on our product...." L, had a similar situation where the Santa Fe F-3's would not be, without shared funding by L, the Santa Fe, and GM for the cost of the tooling.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2528	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

Tom wrote:"2. They tried to have some regional balance since they were trying to sell toy trains all over the country. I think this explains the MoPac diesels and the Seaboard switcher" Wellll....maybe! Southern Pacific sure seemed left out though! Yeah, we got a generator car, a lumber unloader,a few others. AC did do a prototype PA in Daylight (In Don Olsen's collection now), but I'm surprised he never jumped on the Daylight publicity, after all, the Shasta Daylight was introduced in '49 as the All Diesel, Million Dollar train with the Million Dollar view. And was initially powered by PAs! (I remember them!). The other trains, such as the NH stuff was added fairly late into the game, when the 'big show' was almost over. Maybe if the painting department had gotten 'fancy' earlier in the game, AF would have stole more biz from Big L??? I also wonder why AC never made a matching set of S passenger coaches for the Royal blue? Blue painted NH with a gold stripe would have looked neat. Hindsight is soo much sharper than foresight! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2529	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

In a message dated 4/19/99 6:25:37 PM, djdewey@... writes: << I also wonder why AC never made a matching set of S passenger coaches for the Royal blue? Blue painted NH with a gold stripe would have looked neat. Hindsight is soo much sharper than foresight! >> Interestingly, Gilbert did make matching New Haven style passenger car sets for the prewar engines. There was blue (for the Royal Blue, of course), and gun metal gray for the same engine done in that color. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2530	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

Another "S" product with shared cost was the Enhorning "F" unit (F3, phase IV). GM paid for most of the tooling cost to Arthur in exchange for samples to be given to customers. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2531	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Auto Sketch

It has been a while since there was discussion here about CAD. The April 8 Machine Design has a review of AutoSketch, which credits it as a good low end CAD package; $100 from Autodesk Inc., 800-435-7771; www.autodesk.com Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/marchweb.htm ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2532	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

Sponsorship?? My how far we have come!! I had total forgotten that part of it. NOW the companies want the toy maker to PAY THEM! just for the 'license' to use their logo!! As if they receive no other benefit from their name being in so many other people's homes and seen in different environments than where they normally are. The bean counters really don't understand *everything* about developing and nurturing a successful, prosperous business. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2533	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: York

I can only get there for Friday, but had a ball as usual. Where else can you "swim" in toy trains all day. I'm starting to feel as though perhaps the majority of VG/E stuff is sold Tue-Thurs. This time I was looking mostly for accessories and it seemed only the basket-cases or nice-but-over-priced units were left. Same with engines (other than the more common - - 29X, 28X, 30X, 312, 322 - - there were many to of those to choose from). And the theory that items, as least some, come in waves is supported. The last two times, there were nearly no 313 large motors, this time about 3 or 4, same with 343's. I think it also depends on what your focused on finding. I added to my roundhouse and projects list with a fixer-upper 751A (dirty, but complete and works!), Lionel 362 (barrel loader, love the way they topple over and buzz up the ramp), 771 cattle loader and car (needs some work for a second life), 21168 w/ KC, CZ dining car, and a ton of parts, chassis, etc. All in all a good day. After all, even a "bad" day at York is better than any day in the office!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2534	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Royal Blue

I converted an O gauge Royal Blue to S. I shaped wood blocks to fit inside the boiler to mount the pilot truck, and used epoxy to hold them in place. The only other problem I found is that the drilled out smokestack does not line up with the stack in the smoke unit. Haven't figured out a fix for this yet. Bill Frazier ___________________________ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 19 Apr 1999 10:42:29 -0400 (EDT) From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) Subject: Royal Blue If I were converting an O ga Royal Blye to S, I would mount the pilot truck on a frame extension made from a steel strip or 2 and mounted under the headlight in a 46-47 chassis or the smoke unit in a later chassis. Also, I considered this conversion once, and my impression was that the O ga. shell weighs more than the S ga. one, so there may be some other surprise lurking in the weeds in the form of extra material that has to be cut away. Tom J

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2535	From: J. Row	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

Amen and Amen once again! Being a business man and manufacturer, I have a more of a feel for the truth of this statement than meets the eye of most people! Every facet of our hobby and of our life depends upon the bean counters! Jim Row David Dewey wrote: > > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Sponsorship?? > My how far we have come!! I had total forgotten that part of it. NOW the > companies want the toy maker to PAY THEM! just for the 'license' to use > their logo!! As if they receive no other benefit from their name being in so > many other people's homes and seen in different environments than where they > normally are. The bean counters really don't understand *everything* about > developing and nurturing a successful, prosperous business. > S' > David D. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that ONElist hosts some of the largest lists on the Internet? > http://www.ONElist.com > Our scaleable system is the most reliable free e-mail service on the Internet! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2536	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: Spiral Layout

Michael Prell wrote: "I've seen write-ups describing spirals used in ho layouts and always thought it a neat idea for S-gauge. Has anyone been successful at doing this for multiple layering for a layout. If so, how'd you do it?" I've seen several spirals (helixes) in S. Glen Sponholtz in the Denver area has one. So does Larry Sokol of Portland, Oregon. Basically, they are built from 1/2" or 3/4" plywood cut to the desired radius, and the levels are supported by 1x2 uprights. Larry uses flextrack on his. The key is to limit the grade to something that your trains can manage -- try for no more than 2-1/2 percent. You need to calculate your helix radius such that you have at least 4-1/2" separation between the railhead and the bottom of the plywood above. You will not be able to use AF 20" radius track. Reason: A full circle is 125" long, and the required 4-1/2" separation, plus 3/4" for plywood plus 1/2" for AF track, gives you a 4.6 percent grade. You would need to go to 36" radius to get the grade down to 2-1/2 percent. Or you could use thinner plywood as long as you stiffen it on the inner or outer edge with something like a 2" masonite fence. And you could use flextrack. Using both of these alternatives would give you back 1/2", or 0.4 percent reduction in grade -- not enough to let you use AF track. Incidentally, My own layout plan includes a helix. I'll be installing it this summer. Dick Karnes karnesrn@... michael prell wrote: > From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > > I've seen write-ups describing spirals used in ho layouts and always > thought it a neat idea for S-gauge. Has anyone been successful at doing > this for multiple layering for a layout. If so, how'd you do it? > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that we add over 1,000 new e-mail communities every day? > http://www.ONElist.com > Explore a new hobby, discover a new friend, laugh at a new joke! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2537	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: AF Streamline History

A little AF streamline history might help put the Royal Blue in perspective. American Flyer offered its first streamlined train - the Burlington Zephyr - in 1934. In 1935 the Illinois Central and a New York Central 'Minnehaha' were offered. By 1936 the catalog shows the Hiawatha, Union Pacific, and Pennsylvania streamlined engines in addition to the Zephyr. I'm not conversant with Lionel, but I'd guess that they were putting out many of these same lines during this time period. In 1937 when Gilbert bought American Flyer, the streamlined engines in the line were the same four as in 1936. By 1938, the Hiawatha was dropped from the line, but the others were still there. In 1939 the Union Pacific was the only survivor from the previous group, and a Dreyfus styled 2-4-4 made its appearance. Finally in 1940 the 3/16" scale line appeared including the streamlined Royal Blue and 'Royal Gray'. In 1941 the Royal Blue was the only streamlined engine offered (and with blue passenger cars as in 1940). The B&O introduced its Royal Blue in 1937 and it ran through 1939 (or '40) before having the streamlining stripped off. Thus it was running and probably well publicized at least on the east coast as Gilbert designers were looking for models to use for their new 3/16 scale line. Rather than being an obscure shortlived engine as we know it, at that time it may have been a well known 'futuristic' engine. Since many of the other streamlined engines had already been modeled by American Flyer and Lionel in regular O gauge, the Royal Blue was a new name to go with the new 3/16 scale line introduced to challenge Lionel. My theory anyway. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2538	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

Don made a very good point, "State of the Art" trains. AC's use of injection molded plastics for the car bodies was 'on the edge' and time has shown, actually beyond, as the long-term instability of the products becomes apparent. The important thing to remember, though, is at that time they were pushing the envelope to provide a new type of product that still today has many redeeming qualities. Few mechanical toys have been able to do this! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2539	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/19/1999
Subject: S-Gaugian distribution & railfan toy train guys

Referring to Paul and Tom's friendly debate about Walthers and Kalmbach (the Milwaukee Axis, as Paul described it),Bill Banta wrote: Yo dudes, more wood! I love it!.... To which Paul replied: Well, here's some kindling for the fire, Bill. I mentioned that I bought my first copy of S-Gaugian Magazine to a friend of mine at the Death Star (um, I mean Kalmbach) the other day. Here is what he wrote back: Yes, we promote our distribution of S Guagian and Sn3, and anyone who walks into a Great Train Store can see them on sale there (and KPC is the only way they get can get them). Not bad for a company that allegedly conspired with Walthers and Joe McCarthy (another nefarious cheesehead!) to kill off O- and S-gauge. BTW, as a newbie to the hobby, I thoroughly enjoyed this month's issue of S-Gaugian. A nice mix of product reviews, a tour of an AF collection, some how-to stuiff and even prototype book reviews! Hey, I thought toy train guys didn't care about prototype railroads :-) (that's the perception among many of the "hardcore" railfans I know). How many toy train operators/collectors on this list are also railfans? Or do you suppose the railfans drift into HO- and N-scale model RRing? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2540	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: the eBay experience

I catch a lot of messages on the list about eBay that seem... well, not exactly negative, but not exactly favorable either. What do folks think of eBay in terms of a market for Flyer? Are bargains available or do buyers tend to over-pay for equipment? Are people generally pleased with their eBay experience or not? And are newbies like Yours Truly better off dealing with reputable hobby stores and mail-order sellers than buying something from Uncle Fester's attic (which, I've noticed, is usually a beat-up Atlantic and four AF cars in rough shape, plus a circle of track, a transformer and the pine needles from last years Christmas tree)? Paul Schneider San Francisco, CA _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2541	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: Royal Blue

Bill wrote; "The only other problem I found is that the drilled out smokestack does not line up with the stack in the smoke unit. Haven't figured out a fix for this yet." It's true with the S one too, that's why the plastic bodies are different, the skyline casing is brought forward into the nose, not prototypical but it then allows the stack to be in the 'standard' position. The cure I use is to plug the original smoke unit top hole and drill and thread a new one in the right spot for the stack. Seems to work fine. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2542	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian distribution & railfan toy train guys

Well, I refrain from calling myself a 'railfan' as I consider myself a "railroad preservationist". What's the diff?? Well, I'm not out foaming over the latest 90MAC, though I know they exist. While my first love is steam, I spent three years as the Restoration Specialist for the major Diesel museum (Portola). I find the human story and the society's developement as infuenced by the railroads as important and interesting as the valve gear on XYZ loco. I'm bothered by the repainting of the 4449 into a BN scheme because of the lack of historical integrity (Well, at least that's what I'm telling myself!) although it will allow new people to experience mainline steam in operation. Instead of being up there with the engine crew on an excursion, I'm back with the passengers, trying to insure they are getting a full experience, and answering questions. (if this were a religion, I guess I'd be recruiting!) So how do I justify my Royal Blue Daylight? Again, historically; If AC had wanted a Daylight Steamer, I think that this is what would have happened because of tooling costs. And it's not much different from the SP Sunbeam engines, toytrain wise! Now did playing with Flyer bring me to real trains, or did watching real trains bring me to S??? S' David Dewey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2543	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: railfan toy train guys

Yes Paul: many of uS (I can't answer for tri-railheads as I don't associate with 'em) are very interested in prototype railroads. I have built well over a dozen pieces of rolling stock , mostly from photos I took myself. We tend to be interested in history, esp. military history. I remember many screaming arguments about the battle of Stalingrad, the Civil War ironclads etc in the old toy train section of our local train store. We also tend to enjoy outdoor pursuits such as fishing and birding, restore old cars, and there are quite a few ex-musicians among us. As I said, the hobby press has portrayed us as Neanderthals... Tom Jarcho Joe McCarthy?????

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2544	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: eBay

It's the variety and synthesis of many different sources, opinions, and personalities that make this hobby fun. My opinion is eBay is a great source for AF trains and information, but like with anything don't put all your eggs in one basket. I've had good experiences, and not so good experiences, with eBay, local dealers, shows, whatever. In the end, you make the final call. If it costs too much, don't buy it. When you make a mistake, learn from it. If a dealer/seller burns you, don't go back, but I think most folks want to provide you an honest deal, good product, and to have you as a repeat customer. All the different ways to buy, sell, and learn about this hobby offer their own unique virtues. Try and enjoy them all.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2545	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: E-Gad, it's another E-Bay post!

Paul Schneider wrote: >What do folks think of eBay in terms >of a market for Flyer? Are bargains available or do >buyers tend to over-pay for equipment? >And are newbies like Yours Truly better off dealing >with reputable hobby stores and mail-order sellers >than buying something from Uncle Fester's attic. It would be cheaper and more satisfying for you to have purchased plane tickets to York and shopped around the halls, than it would be to buy the pig in a poke that is offered on E-Bay. I am going to take a lot of heat for that statement, but before you all flame me, consider this: there were lots of guys scrounging the junk boxes at York, looking for items to sell you on E-Bay as "Mint" or "E++". If you wanted the contents of those junk boxes, you could have bought them, in bulk, for a few hundred dollars, and had enough left over for the plane tickets. E-Bay robs you of the chance to see & touch the merchandise and to walk away if you smell a rat. My advice, stay away, especially a newbie. For the rest of you crusty veterans who manage to have good E-Bay experiences, I believe your veteran years are getting you by, yet, still, you will be occasionally burned. You probably can absorb it better than a new guy. OK, flame away! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2546	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: E-Gad, it's another E-Bay post!

In a message dated 4/20/99 5:07:09 PM, busy-boy@... writes: << It would be cheaper and more satisfying for you to have purchased plane tickets to York and shopped around the halls, than it would be to buy the pig in a poke that is offered on E-Bay. >> Contrary to what you may be expecting as a reaction, I agree. And for reasons beyond e-Bay. If you can attend, York and S-Fest yield many experiences and benefits to the collector beyond the simple acquisition of trains. These 'shows' provide the opportunity to see pieces up close that you might not normally come across, and discussion between like-minded collectors and operators adds to one's education about AF, the trains, the development of judgment about condition, etc. .....and, new collectors would be best advised to not 'buy blind' on the Internet unless condition is not important. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2547	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: SW1500

I'd just like to say that I'm very interested in an SW1500. I had been thinking of ways to do one myself, using the SHS drive. In terms of price, I certainly agree that a kit couldn't sell for much more than a RTR switcher, without severely limiting sales. While I would expect a nicely detailed kit, I'd have to say that the sales will be inversely proportional to complexity. While the sales volume of a plastic model wouldn't be needed, there is a point of diminishing returns in terms of detail vs. degree of difficulty. The trick is to find out where that point lies. I'm certainly willing to tackle complex projects, but I do have a finite amount of time. Unless it was totally unaffordable or unusable, I'd definitely buy one. I know that both price and assembly time would determine whether I'd buy more. (I'd like to have several). Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2548	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Railmaster Exports G8

Anyone have a Railmaster Exports G8 for sale? Going to use it for my Sn42 layout on the Newfoundland Railway. Thank You Andrew Baird

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2549	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: links?

> Do you have links to (or addresses for) Paul Yorke's > site and Craig O'Connell's S Scale Homepage? Paul's S-Trains Site is at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ Craig's site is at http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2550	From: RKuep44202@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: TERMINAL HOBBY SHOP SPRING SALE

Hope everyone noted the S-Helper box cars listed in the "rummage sale." Great price, and outstanding opportunity to tell Walthers that S is alive and well. Dick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2551	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: E-Gad, it's another E-Bay post!

No flames from here, Chris! I'd love to go to York, just to go through those junk boxes, with parts waiting to be combined with other parts to make Daylights, and other neat stuff! Uh oh, getting drool on keyboard! I'm selective whenever purchasing on eBay, and I'm CHEAP! so I don't usualy get anything anyway! But I did post our 'newbie' with much the same suggestions as you. If you're new to the club, go around and make new S friends, and observe & soak up what knowledge you can find (I know, with some of us BSing so much it's hard to find the important stuff, sorry!). Get to know what the stuff IS, and what you like, and what to look for. And remember that the train show halls are dimly lit, so that 'great bargin' you got, won't usually seems as good when you get it home (or in the motel room). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2552	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

David, I'm afraid that the bean counters know just what they are doing. They get all the exposure and they get paid too!! It's as if we found people who were willing to pay us to remove old American Flyer Trains from their attics. Consumers are the ones who make this possible. We are so anxious to wear, or use their symbols all for their benefit, that we are willing to pay for it. A.C. Gilbert asked how much Celanese was paying them to use their logos and then changed it to Gilbert Chemicals when he found out they weren't, but if he had to deal with a public that demanded Celanese, he might have had to pay for the privilege of using the logo. At a recent train show, there was a vendor selling N scale boxcars with Candy Bar Brand names. One well known brand was missing, as he had not been able to negotiate a deal allowing the use of the logo. If this goes much farther, then manufacturers will have to pay a licensing fee to the railroads whose road names and heralds decorate their products. Maybe they do already? Maybe Don Thompson can shed some light on this. Those SW9's came in a lot of road names. Just imagine, Union Pacific could collect on a bunch of road names, SP, WP, D&RGW, C& NW, not to mention their own name. Dale Smith David Dewey wrote: > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Sponsorship?? > My how far we have come!! I had total forgotten that part of it. NOW the > companies want the toy maker to PAY THEM! just for the 'license' to use > their logo!! As if they receive no other benefit from their name being in so > many other people's homes and seen in different environments than where they > normally are. The bean counters really don't understand *everything* about > developing and nurturing a successful, prosperous business. > S' > David D. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that ONElist hosts some of the largest lists on the Internet? > http://www.ONElist.com > Our scaleable system is the most reliable free e-mail service on the Internet! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Dale Smith Pacifica, California

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2553	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Corprate names use, was: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

Well, I read Dale's thoughts on mine, and I still think the bean counters don't know how to NURTURE and DEVELOP a prosperous business, yes they can rake in the immediate cash, but to give a company a reputation and a 'human' personality that gives the general public a good feeling about dealing with a brand name (and THAT is what leads to long-term growth and development, although few in the US even think about that) is beyond them. He jokingly commented on all the names UP can now hold claim to. Well, in the real world about two years ago, UP was considering requiring all museums to remove the UP name from their locomotives. Since the locomotives are no longer UP property, the bean counters figured (along with some lawyers' help) that the names should be removed to prevent anyone from confusing the ownership. Granted, much of this was because of some Music Video featuring a 'deranged engineer' using a locomotive to do bad stuff & the loco used was obviously a UP unit. Fortunately, so far, calmer heads have prevailed, but the possibility is still there!! Imagine not being able to see anything with historic names, except on currently operating equipment. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2554	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

They can not allow someone to use their logo without permission. If they do they lose their logo and it becomes public domain. There was an attempt to force mfgs to get permission by CSX to use all related logos a few years ago. But it fell through Larry Dale F. Smith wrote: > David, > > I'm afraid that the bean counters know just what > they are doing. They get all the exposure and > they get paid too!! It's as if we found people > who were willing to pay us to remove old > American Flyer Trains from their attics. > Consumers are the ones who make this possible. > We are so anxious to wear, or use their symbols > all for their benefit, that we are willing to > pay for it. A.C. Gilbert asked how much > Celanese was paying them to use their logos and > then changed it to Gilbert Chemicals when he > found out they weren't, but if he had to deal > with a public that demanded Celanese, he might > have had to pay for the privilege of using the > logo. > > At a recent train show, there was a vendor > selling N scale boxcars with Candy Bar Brand > names. One well known brand was missing, as he > had not been able to negotiate a deal allowing > the use of the logo. If this goes much farther, > then manufacturers will have to pay a licensing > fee to the railroads whose road names and > heralds decorate their products. Maybe they do > already? Maybe Don Thompson can shed some light > on this. Those SW9's came in a lot of road > names. Just imagine, Union Pacific could > collect on a bunch of road names, SP, WP, D&RGW, > C& NW, not to mention their own name. > > Dale Smith > > David Dewey wrote: > >> From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> >> >> Sponsorship?? >> My how far we have come!! I had total >> forgotten that part of it. NOW the >> companies want the toy maker to PAY THEM! just >> for the 'license' to use >> their logo!! As if they receive no other >> benefit from their name being in so >> many other people's homes and seen in >> different environments than where they >> normally are. The bean counters really don't >> understand *everything* about >> developing and nurturing a successful, >> prosperous business. >> S' >> David D. >> >> -------- >> --------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Did you know that ONElist hosts some of the >> largest lists on the Internet? >> http://www.ONElist.com >> Our scaleable system is the most reliable free >> e-mail service on the Internet! >> ------------------------------- >> ---------------------------------------- >> Check FAQs at >> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >> List info at >> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > -- > Dale Smith > Pacifica, California >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2555	From: Alan Evans	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: NASG Members: Your Vote Counts

John Foley is the best candidate for Executive Vice President of NASG. In the last 2 years he's promoted the NASG by having a table at private and public shows and the Great American Train Shows from Chicago to Connecticut. He had an NASG table at this month's pre-York TCA meet. If you've failed to renew your membership the last 2 years, chances are John sent you a postcard reminding you to send in your dues. And he has been VERY successful recruiting new members into NASG. Recently on S Trains were postings from John about 3rd Rail, NJ International and Ross getting ready to produce products for S Gauge. It was largely through John's efforts that these new manufacturers will be making items for our want list!. For an Executive Vice President who does a fantastic job of selling NASG as well as listening to and supporting the membership, John Foley is the choice. Your vote DOES count. - Alan Evans - Past President, NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2556	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Copyrights

Dale Smith wrote: >A.C. Gilbert asked how much >Celanese was paying them to use their logos and then changed it to Gilbert >Chemicals when he found out they weren't, but if he had to deal with a public that >demanded Celanese, he might have had to pay for the privilege of using the logo. A.C.Gilbert had a great deal of difficulty with licensing deals. The reason we have "Silver Flash", "Comet" and "Rocket" diesels today is because A.C. could not lock down a deal to put a variety of roadnames on his engines and took the expediently inexpensive route of creating his own roadnames on the color livery of the Maine Central, Missouri Pacific and . whoever the green & silver was supposed to be. Political pressure from big L probably contributed to this failing as J.L. Cowen jealously guarded his relationships with the big American railroads. Ol' A.C. didn't pay for nuthin' !

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2557	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: AF diesel chassis

I've received many individual messages requesting where I buy them. I purchased mine from Fred Jester. He advertises in S-Gaugian, but does not do mail order. He sells his parts and trains at train shows in the MD and PA area. I'd suggest asking other parts dealers who offer mail order - - Port Lines, Leventons, Triple-S, Joe's Parts, RFGiardinia. I don't have my parts guide here at work, try asking for a LTI motor chassis and wheel assembly. You'll have to tap the holes for bearing strap screws, etc. (6x32, 4x40), add thrust plates, and tires on the pulmor wheels (2 per chassis). If you want I can look up the P/N tonight. If your a purest in terms of originality you might want to have bushings added to your original chassis. LTI chassis come with grey metal wheels, not brass. And the pulmors use bands (tires), not the full-jacket vulcanized type some of the earlier pulmors had.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2558	From: J. Row	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: the eBay experience

Hi! To answer your question from one "S" gaugers experience. The prices on Ebay seemed a little high until yesterday when I made one of my quarterly trecks into a local hobby/toy shop in Denver where there's a fair collection of AF for sale. Good thing the isles are narrow 'cause I about fell over backward at the prices (and not because they were low!). The prices were very likely quite fair for the store owner is entitled to a fair margin of profit. However, it made Ebay look really great from the standpoint of selection & price. Ebay prices are not low but they seem fair in most cases. Let's face it, if you are competing in a bidding war with someone who only needs one #24076 stock car to complete some part of his collection then you may see the price go up. If you are competing with 3 or 4 or 5 of the same types of collectors and the piece is described as a really superb one, you may see the price go through the roof (happened to me last week on a #625). Your local hobby shop can be (usually tries to be) a really good place to shop and to make purchases if it has what you want. Ebay is another place with prices unpredictable but the selection is quite good and constantly changing. Train meets (not the cornfield variety but the collector/swap variety)are a great bet but are generally not real frequent and often miles and miles away! In summary, from where I see it, Ebay goes into the hopper of viable sources of our dear trains! I've gotten some good trains at my local hobby shop, on Ebay, and at train "swap"/"show and tell" meets. Also some from a friend tells me about a friend - - but those are of the rarest type of find! Make a daily or weekly choice and take your chances! Know what you think is a price you can live with and don't go over it when bidding. If you do go higher, it's not the fault of Ebay but rather is the result of how many others want what you want - - a marketing principle from way back! Jim Row Paul D. Schneider wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > I catch a lot of messages on the list about eBay that > seem... well, not exactly negative, but not exactly > favorable either. What do folks think of eBay in terms > of a market for Flyer? Are bargains available or do > buyers tend to over-pay for equipment? Are people > generally pleased with their eBay experience or not? > And are newbies like Yours Truly better off dealing > with reputable hobby stores and mail-order sellers > than buying something from Uncle Fester's attic > (which, I've noticed, is usually a beat-up Atlantic > and four AF cars in rough shape, plus a circle of > track, a transformer and the pine needles from last > years Christmas tree)? > > Paul Schneider > San Francisco, CA > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > G-SHOCK SPORTS WATCH - Built Tough! Built Cool! G-SHOCK keeps you in > Sync! Shock Resistant and Loaded with Features! Electo-luminescent, > Satisfaction Guaranteed*No-Hassle Returns*Only $69 Free Freight in US > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe6 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2559	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: bean counters,etc

on the subject of road names-big L dropped their Rock Island set last year because the owner of the name(i don't remember, but the connection to railroading was questionable) either wanted the proverbial arm and leg for usage or just flat out refused to let them to use it.and, same theme, different medium, about 10 years ago, Boeing came close to stopping production of ALL plastic models of their aircraft- they were named as responsible in a lawsuit against Monogram concerning a child swallowing a prop from Monogram(now Revellogram)'s 1/48 (0-gague) scale B-17. Pretty far effin' out, wouldn't you say? Apparently our litiginous society has created a need for companies to cover their a###s from silly lawsuits,and we,the enthusiasts, must suffer.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2560	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: bean counters,etc

As a recent Boeing retiree, I can tell you that one of my employees transferred out of my organization to set up a new Boeing contracts group. Its mission is to figure out how to generate a few bucks from the sale of all the plastic models of Boeing products. Initial thoughts, according to this employee, were to charge a small royalty for each individual model sold. I wished her well in her new job. I did not tell her what I thought of the idea. In the back of my mind was Billy Wade's troubles with the guy who owns the rights to Railway Express logos, preventing him from marketing an REA Hartoy truck. Dick Karnes Toyguy5344@... wrote: > From: Toyguy5344@... > > on the subject of road names-big L dropped their Rock Island set last year > because > the owner of the name(i don't remember, but the connection to railroading was > questionable) either wanted the proverbial arm and leg for usage or just flat > out refused to let them to use it.and, same theme, different medium, about 10 > years ago, Boeing came close to stopping production of ALL plastic models of > their aircraft- they were named as responsible in a lawsuit against Monogram > concerning a child swallowing a prop from Monogram(now Revellogram)'s 1/48 > (0-gague) scale B-17. > Pretty far effin' out, wouldn't you say? Apparently our litiginous society > has created a need for companies to cover their a###s from silly lawsuits,and > we,the enthusiasts, must suffer.-john marganski >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2561	From: J. Row	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: bean counters,etc

I Have a serious question for you, sir! Why did you not tell her and give her a whole bundle of reasons? Boeing is a large customer of ours but I'll drive before riding on one of their busses in the sky. Thanks for the info on this topic. I'll do my share in encouraging the use of other aircraft - - Cessna, Beech, Mooney, etc? S gage people need to know these things just as does the rest of the world. Bean counters have outlive their usefulness. Maybe when they retire they'll become S gagers and wonder why no products have names on them! Jim Richard Karnes wrote: > > From: Richard Karnes <karnesrn@...> > > As a recent Boeing retiree, I can tell you that one of my employees transferred > out of my organization to set up a new Boeing contracts group. Its mission is to > figure out how to generate a few bucks from the sale of all the plastic models of > Boeing products. Initial thoughts, according to this employee, were to charge a > small royalty for each individual model sold. > > I wished her well in her new job. I did not tell her what I thought of the > idea. In the back of my mind was Billy Wade's troubles with the guy who owns the > rights to Railway Express logos, preventing him from marketing an REA Hartoy > truck. > > Dick Karnes > > Toyguy5344@... wrote: > > > From: Toyguy5344@... > > > > on the subject of road names-big L dropped their Rock Island set last year > > because > > the owner of the name(i don't remember, but the connection to railroading was > > questionable) either wanted the proverbial arm and leg for usage or just flat > > out refused to let them to use it.and, same theme, different medium, about 10 > > years ago, Boeing came close to stopping production of ALL plastic models of > > their aircraft- they were named as responsible in a lawsuit against Monogram > > concerning a child swallowing a prop from Monogram(now Revellogram)'s 1/48 > > (0-gague) scale B-17. > > Pretty far effin' out, wouldn't you say? Apparently our litiginous society > > has created a need for companies to cover their a###s from silly lawsuits,and > > we,the enthusiasts, must suffer.-john marganski > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Share the wealth! > http://www.ONElist.com > Tell a friend about ONElist's 130,000 free e-mail communities! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2562	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

Dear David, No help here, you are on your own. Dale F. Smith wrote: Maybe Don Thompson can shed some light on this.� I cringe every time I think of the possible time bomb that could be ticking regarding those fees for railroad logos � -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2563	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: LTI parts help needed!

Hi all, I'm repairing a friend's SP GP loco, the older one. The can motor 'birdnested' (the windings fell off the armature, creating a bird nest of wires inside the can). Well, new motor ordered, arrived, and guess what?? It's similar, but not quite the same, the mounting holes have been moved, as have the brush solder lugs, so it won't fit in the old mounting unit. Does anyone know what the current part number is for the plastic stuff that mounts on the AF truck chassis so I can order THAT part now and see if I can't get this loco running by Christmas?? While were asking about parts, I picked up some NOS streamline passenger car bodies, so now I need two coach/vista dome chassis and one observation chassis, Gilbert or L made, doesn't matter, I plan on running these cars when I get them back together. Thanks! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2564	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: SW 1500 comments

To some extent, I believe that my comments about the SW1500 have been misunderstood. My point was that the design and pricing of any product is dependent on how many the manufacturer wants/needs to sell. Defining what "the customer" wants also defines how many people will likely be "the customer". Also, I may be coming at this subject with different terminology than others; I've never seen anything that I define as totally "ready-to-run". Stuff coming out of the box runs the gamut from "ready-to-complete" to "kitbashing material", as far as I'm concerned. From this perspective, I'll still argue that I can make a high-end plastic model look & run more to my satisfaction than many brass models. However, I do buy some brass, since brass is more suited to smaller production quantities, so a wider variety of prototypes can be offered to a smaller customer base... which brings things back to the first paragraph above. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2565	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Magazines/organizations?

I getting back into (with my 7 year old`s encouragement) running the American Flyer trains of my youth. So far, I'm strictly interested in collecting and operating Gilbert AF only. No real interest in Lionel AF or other manufacturers, s-scale modeling, etc. As such, I'm looking into possibly joining local or national organizations, magazine subscriptions, etc. For cost reasons I want to limit participation to those that best fill my needs. That's where I'm getting stuck. I've heard of TCA, TTOS, NMRA, NASG. What advantages and dis-advantages do each have relative my interests? TCA and TTOS would seem to concentrate more on the old "classics" but, I'm afraid, with a large emphasis on o-guage. NASG concentrates on s-guage but sounds like there may be a lot on emphasis on "modeling". What about magazines? Which would best meet my interests? How clubs in Phoenix, hopefully NE Phoenix/Scottsdale area? I have been to several local train shows and talked to some of the persons there but pretty much came away more confused than when I went in. Maybe I wasn't asking the right questions. Any and all comments on the subject are welcome. -- Jerry Riechert riecherg@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2566	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: AF crew names?

My 7 year son asked, if Smitty is the guy on the box car and Moe and Joe are the guys on the lumber car, what are the names of the guys on the handcar and caboose? As for stuff I don't have, I know about Sam and his semaphore. Are there any others I can aspire too :^) ? -- Jerry Riechert riecherg@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2567	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: AF crew names?

>From: Jerry Riechert <riecherg@...> > >My 7 year son asked, if Smitty is the guy on the box car and Moe and Joe >are the guys on the lumber car, what are the names of the guys on the >handcar and caboose? > The guys on the handcar are Mike and Ike. Can't find a name for the caboose brakeman. >As for stuff I don't have, I know about Sam and his semaphore. Are there >any others I can aspire too :^) ? > How about "Louie the Loader" of the oil drum loader (my favorite accessory,) Or "Billy the baggage smasher" of the baggage smasher station. Got these from "A.C. Gilbert's Famous American Flyer Trains" by Paul C. Nelson available from Heimburger House Publishing Company, which also produces the S-Gaugian magazine.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2568	From: Dennis Back	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: AF crew names?

Don't forget AF #23780, GABE the Lamplighter! _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2569	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: prototype choices (Royal Blue, etc.)

I don't think there is a bomb ticking. The RRs have allowed the logos to be used to long with out trying to stop it. I personally think if push came to shove the logos are now public domain. I think it was at the mria show in Minneapolis that the CSX appeared at our business meeting. They had found someone importing C&O dishes and because the B&O museum sell this type of stuff for a pretty penny they wanted to stop the import of this stuff. The only way they could do it was to stop all use of all of their logos and ect. There was a distributor there that told Mr. CSX that he did not think there was any mfg there that had the money to fight this in court BUT he did and if CSX wanted to pursue this he would personally finance any of them in the fight and the fight would be based on the fact that the model railroad mfgs had been using the logos for so long that they were now public domain. The Mr. CSX said he would get back to us. Then thing just died on the vine because CSX probably decided that there was some truth in that and CSX did not want a ruling. Larry Robin Thompson wrote: > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > > Dear David, > No help here, you are on your own. > Dale F. Smith wrote: > > Maybe Don Thompson can shed some light on this. > > I cringe every time I think of the possible time bomb that could be > ticking regarding those fees for railroad logos > > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > G-SHOCK SPORTS WATCH - Built Tough! Built Cool! G-SHOCK keeps you in > Sync! Shock Resistant and Loaded with Features! Electo-luminescent, > Satisfaction Guaranteed*No-Hassle Returns*Only $69 Free Freight in US > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe6 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2570	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: AF crew names?

And Moe and Joe of the 971 Lumber unloading car!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2571	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?

For my money I think NASG is useful for AF fans. The Despatch magazine that comes with membership is pretty good and contains articles you can use (and some you won't). I think S Gaugian magazine is very important to an S gauger, particularly one who is Flyer or hirail oriented. It has articles that are strictly flyer and others that span the zones between scale, hirail and AF. The amount of hirail stuff you see advertized in these magazines will have you departing your Flyer only stance before you know it, if only for a little variety of rolling stock. Also, modern AM and SHS engines run superbly and are totally compatible with Flyer without paying collectible prices. Jerry Riechert wrote: > > From: Jerry Riechert <riecherg@...> > > I getting back into (with my 7 year old`s encouragement) running the > American Flyer trains of my youth. So far, I'm strictly interested in > collecting and operating Gilbert AF only. No real interest in Lionel AF > or other manufacturers, s-scale modeling, etc. > > As such, I'm looking into possibly joining local or national > organizations, magazine subscriptions, etc. For cost reasons I want to > limit participation to those that best fill my needs. That's where I'm > getting stuck. > > I've heard of TCA, TTOS, NMRA, NASG. What advantages and dis-advantages > do each have relative my interests? TCA and TTOS would seem to > concentrate more on the old "classics" but, I'm afraid, with a large > emphasis on o-guage. NASG concentrates on s-guage but sounds like there > may be a lot on emphasis on "modeling". > > What about magazines? Which would best meet my interests? > > How clubs in Phoenix, hopefully NE Phoenix/Scottsdale area? > > I have been to several local train shows and talked to some of the > persons there but pretty much came away more confused than when I went > in. Maybe I wasn't asking the right questions. > > Any and all comments on the subject are welcome. > > -- > Jerry Riechert riecherg@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Share the wealth! > http://www.ONElist.com > Tell a friend about ONElist's 130,000 free e-mail communities! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2572	From: bellokdaka@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/21/1999
Subject: Re: AF crew names?

Have found names for most of A F crew looking through old catalogs except for two that I have wondered about, maybe since Jerry got this started someone can help me as well. I would like to know the names of the 787 Log loader man and the Sawmill man. Until I have the Gilbert names I assume that the log loader is Louie in his second job or his twin brother. As for the Sawmill man, we call him BUBBA. "Oh Boy, TRAINS!"...Herky 1950 Obie Bell

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2573	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: cattle carpet

What do you recommend using for the base of a 771 cattle yard and/or car? I've been told to experiment with 600-1000 grit sandpaper, but thought I'd ask this knowledgeable group first. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2574	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: string 'em up

What have you found works best for restringing accessories such as 751 log loaders, cranes, etc? I've tried different products such as heavy thread, waxed thread, leather-like thread, kite string, and twine, but nothing is quite like the original string (which has broken, or soon breaks) on these units. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2575	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: string 'em up

I use old (cotton?) fishing line found at flea markets. I'm told that currently made ice fishing line works well. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2576	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: Diesel chassis

<<I've received many individual messages requesting where I buy them. I purchased mine from Fred Jester. He advertises in S-Gaugian, but does not do mail order. He sells his parts and trains at train shows in the MD and PA area. I'd suggest asking other parts dealers who offer mail order - - Port Lines, Leventons, Triple-S, Joe's Parts, RFGiardinia. I don't have my parts guide here at work, try asking for a LTI motor chassis and wheel assembly. >> Yes, we carry the Lnl/AF diesel chassis......at least for now. Who knows how much longer Lnl will supply ANY AF parts!!! I have no experience in using these chassis in AF repairs, so you'll have to rely on what others sy about it. I only rebush original AF chassis myself. We also carry two different types of bushings for doing this..........one type for the chassis with factory bushings (no drilling required), and one type for the later chassis without factory bushings (drilling required, as per Barker's instructions); also offer a 3-piece drill set for doing same. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 66-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 48 page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2577	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: Pass car chassis

<< While were asking about parts, I picked up some NOS streamline passenger car bodies, so now I need two coach/vista dome chassis and one observation chassis, Gilbert or L made, doesn't matter, I plan on running these cars when I get them back together. >> Pass car frames are available from Lnl....I have 1 or 2 left in stock... but if I remember right, OBSERVATION car frames are not; I'll have to check. The BAD news is that Lnl will not release the pass car TRUCKS! Frames only !!! They WILL release the rear truck for the Obs (no coupler), but not the regular trux with couplers ! Aren't they helpful! : ( Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2578	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: S orgs and pubs

<<I've heard of TCA, TTOS, NMRA, NASG. What advantages and dis-advantages do each have relative my interests? TCA and TTOS would seem to concentrate more on the old "classics" but, I'm afraid, with a large emphasis on o-guage. NASG concentrates on s-guage but sounds like there may be a lot on emphasis on "modeling". What about magazines? Which would best meet my interests? How clubs in Phoenix, hopefully NE Phoenix/Scottsdale area? >> TTOS offers virtually nothing for an S-gauger.......Like TCA (and I AM a member of both!), these orgs are 95% O-gauge oriented. Their pubs occasionally have an AF article, but don't join if that's your only reason. TCA MAY be worth joining anyway, IF you want access to their local or national train meets.........members only. But, like TTOS, don't join just for the pub. NASG is S only..........Yes, it is a mix of AF, non-AF highrail, and S-scale......but IMHO, anyone into S-gauge SHOULD be an NASG member. The bimonthly pub tries to address all segments of S. For $17 per year, you won't go wrong! To pick one magazine for your stated interests, it HAS to be the S-Gaugian. Again, it addresses all phases of S, but tends to be more-heavily oriebnted to the AF and highrail area than to scale. So, I guess what I am suggesting to you, based on your stated interests, is join NASG, and subscribe to S-Gaugian ! BTW, don't be too quick to rule out the other manufacturers of quality S today! MANY of us began with just AF, and now incorporate AM, SHS, Crown, Downs, etc. They're producing great products that are AF-compatible, and they provide some rolling-stock and motive-power options that don't exist if you stick strictly to Gilbert/AF or Lnl/AF. As for S clubs in your area, I can't help you....maybe John Foley can ??????? <<As for stuff I don't have, I know about Sam and his semaphore. Are there any others I can aspire too :^) ?>> There's always GABE..........if your pockets are deep!!!! >> Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 66-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 48 page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2579	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: accessory string

I use braided dacron trolling line. Try to find some almost as thick as original string. I believe mine is about 70lb test but the label fell off the spool so am not sure. I use it for all accessories and cranes. Only exception: Gabe the lamplighter requires strong sewing thread. This stuff is ok but could be softer. You need a thick soft strong string. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2580	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: keeping the cars on the track.

Greetings all, I am noticing something odd. The AF couplers do not have enough play to work with my AM equipment. the AM couplers and trucks swing independently of each other and the wheels stay on the track while the AF PM and knuckle cars get knocked off the track. While I am not ready to trade in my string of AF Santa Fe hoppers for AM versions, I wonder what's going on do I need to keep PM with PM and AM with AM. it's always something isn't it Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2581	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: keeping the cars on the track.

Body mounted couplers on AM diesels will knock many following cars off the track on standard AF S track. The trick is to unplug the plastic centering spring on the AM coupler. (This is also described on the AM website: www.wmericanmodels.com). I have no experience with this problem on PikeMaster track but it can only get worse. On my F7 and Alco road engines I actually rigged a truck mounted coupler to get around any problems. Haven't figured out how to do this for a GP or RS3. I did make one GP coupler so it swung in the direction the truck turned thru a spring and that helps too. Another trick is to mount an AF covered hopper or other short car behind the AM engine. This helped me. Very light weight cars behind the AM engine will be more prone to uncouple so the first car should be heavy. Jeffrey Tangeman wrote: > > From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...> > > Greetings all, > > I am noticing something odd. The AF couplers do not have enough play to work > with my AM equipment. the AM couplers and trucks swing independently of each > other and the wheels stay on the track while the AF PM and knuckle cars get > knocked off the track. While I am not ready to trade in my string of AF > Santa Fe hoppers for AM versions, I wonder what's going on do I need to keep > PM with PM and AM with AM. > > it's always something isn't it > > Jeff Tangeman > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend? > http://www.ONElist.com > Come join one of the 130,000 e-mail communities at ONElist! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2582	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: keeping the cars on the track. corrected

I had a typo in the website address. It correctly is: www.americanmodels.com -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2583	From: Chasbo86@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: 18006 engine

Yesterday I saw the 18006 Reading locomotive that my brother had bought before he died. I was amazed. I don't think it has ever been out of the original box. It still has the sterofoam packing and even two little red ribbons attatched and the box looks to be brand new. If anyone is interested, it's for sale.Either E-Mail to "chasbo86@..." or call at 609-482-9372. Charlie B

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2584	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: String

As I rode my exercise bike this afternoon, reading old s gaugians, I came across Robert Tufts' premier American Flyer Collector's Column in the November/December 1997 issue. In a sidebar he describes materials that Gilbert used, with the following that relate to a recent question, and I quote: "The string used for the #644 cranes was purchased from Ashway Line & Twine Company, as #217-GX waterproof braided cord. (The cord is 45 lb., braided nylon squidding line which can still be purchased (in 1997) from a number of companies selling fishing supplies.)" "The string for the #944 crane car was 30 pound, cotton cuthunk, deep sea fishing line (hence the dark green color). The last known supplier of this cord was Pflauger who marketed it under the trade name of 'Tarp Sail'." Regards, Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2585	From: jim	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Train clubs

Someone asked about what train clubs to join. I belong to the TTOS and I am glad that I do. The majority of members are "O" gauge fans but there are alot of "S" gauge people too. Just being with toy train enthusiast even if they don't run the same type you do is enjoyable. Alot of the 3 railers are into the real trains too, so there is some common ground. Besides, during the auctions you are not bidding against quite as many people as the "O" gauge people. At the SP division of the TTOS we have a huge meet every month with dozens of dealers and a 2 to 4 hour auction that follows.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2586	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: More new pages

Hats off to Jerry Poniatowski for his outstanding skills in modeling and photography. The three new ones are.... http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/budd/PII.html http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/budd/PIII.html http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/budd/PIV.html If you like what you see send Jerry a note, I am sure he would love to here your comments. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2587	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: non-S clubs, and collections

First and foremost, I am an A.C. Gilbert American Flyer man.But I also love scale aircraft modeling-the airbrush and scratch building skills I have developed quite naturally,and handily,spill over into my train hobby-since I purchase a lot of fixer-uppers, good painting skills and the experience of working in multi-media kits are in- dispensible in repair/restoration items. I also love the entire spectrum of toy trains.I became a gilbert owner in 1955, when i got a meteor freight set (293,924,925,929, 930). In 1960, my mother's godson got married and gave me all his Lionel 027 stuff- I shake my head when I see the asking prices for the #55 tie-jector and the 2023 UP Alcos. And about 10 years ago, a friend who is a gilbert fanatic turned me on to tinplate,which led to Standard gauge,too. So my point is, don't knock 3-railers!! Gilbert 3/16 scale 0 gauge is some nice running and pretty 3-rail equipment!I have found that the nicest compliment to A.C.'s pre-war engines is Marx 3/16 scale tinplate-that stuff is near-scale, and the lithography is simply beautiful! And much of Lionel's 027 rolling stock is close to 3/16-adapting either to Gilbert trucks is simple-just do 1 end of a Marx or Lionel car with a tack- welded truck/coupler tongue from a Gilbert beater,then string on the others behind it! And layout tips are layout tips,regardless of gauge.So lighten up,guys-these are TOY TRAINS, they are for fun and relaxation. There is no right or wrong taste or gauge. It is about sharing tips, tales, and the sheer fun of playing with our little machines. Scale,hi-rail or just a track set-up on the floor is still running and enjoying the toy trains of our long-departed youth, and that is our bond, guys.Truly we are the Brother- hood of The Ozone-don't forget that sacred bond! - john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2588	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Walthers

Someone on the list recently asked if Walthers had been sold to "foreign interests." I checked with a friend of mine (an AF fan who, until recently, was the manager of Walthers' Terminal Hobby Shop, the retail store). His reply: "You bet they're foreigners. Some of them live on the SOUTH SIDE." Those of you from Milwaukee know the horror of which my friend speaks. The South Side (ya der hey, go Packers!) is a foreign land of Polish sausage and custard stands, a land where you tell the clerk to leave the ice out of your "soda" so you don't get cheated. All kidding aside, Walthers is family owned. Also, to dispell another myth: Kalmbach Publishing and Walthers are NOT linked in any way, certainly not corporately. Neither company shares board members, for example. In fact, I've heard the staff of MODEL RAILROADER magazine bitch about Walthers being out of stock on an item more than a few times. As another friend of mine pointed out, Walthers is old and large, like a dinosaur. And like a dinosaur, it moves slowly, confident in its size. But as we all know, the dinosaurs didn't last forever... Paul Schneider San Francisco, CA _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2589	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 4/22/1999
Subject: Re: Walthers

"Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > In fact, I've heard the staff of MODEL > RAILROADER magazine bitch about Walthers being out of > stock on an item more than a few times. > Yeah, And some of the stuff I ordered for the MR&T club layout while I was on staff with MR three years ago have yet to come in! Of coarse Walthers is very philanthropic (no pun intended). To slow the spread of AIDs, they assigned the disease a Walthers catalog number and now nobody can get it. Just kidding. But more importantly I heard that one from a Walthers employee. Speaking of the south side, boy I sure could go for some pasties about now. Too bad Midwest Express doesn't fly into Seatac. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2590	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: cattle carpet

In message <8525675B.00484B46.00@...>, David_Horn@... writes >From: David_Horn@... > > > >What do you recommend using for the base of a 771 cattle yard and/or car? >I've been told to experiment with 600-1000 grit sandpaper, but thought I'd >ask this knowledgeable group first. Thanks. > Get hold of the real stuff - grind it down in the food mixer (when the wife is out) and stick it down with some white wood working glue - it will be very realistic especially on a hot day <G> -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2591	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: Walthers

The story I have is Walthers was on the verge of going belly up some years ago. Take a look at their catalogs and the year Marklin disappeared is the year ROCO pumped money into them to keep them a float. Wasn't long after that they started all this MFGing over seas. Marklin stop selling to them because of the Roco connection. Larry Paul D. Schneider wrote: > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Someone on the list recently asked if Walthers had > been sold to "foreign interests." I checked with a > friend of mine (an AF fan who, until recently, was the > manager of Walthers' Terminal Hobby Shop, the retail > store). His reply: "You bet they're foreigners. Some > of them live on the SOUTH SIDE." > > Those of you from Milwaukee know the horror of which > my friend speaks. The South Side (ya der hey, go > Packers!) is a foreign land of Polish sausage and > custard stands, a land where you tell the clerk to > leave the ice out of your "soda" so you don't get > cheated. > > All kidding aside, Walthers is family owned. > > Also, to dispell another myth: Kalmbach Publishing and > Walthers are NOT linked in any way, certainly not > corporately. Neither company shares board members, for > example. In fact, I've heard the staff of MODEL > RAILROADER magazine bitch about Walthers being out of > stock on an item more than a few times. > > As another friend of mine pointed out, Walthers is old > and large, like a dinosaur. And like a dinosaur, it > moves slowly, confident in its size. But as we all > know, the dinosaurs didn't last forever... > > Paul Schneider > San Francisco, CA > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Has ONElist changed your life? > http://www.ONElist.com > Visit our homepage and share with us your experiences at ONElist of the Week! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2592	From: ChooChoo64@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Unsubscibe, for now

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2593	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: More new pages

Paul, I feel that you need to be warned. If you continue to publish photographs and articles like this the paper publishers at S Gaugian, S/Sn3 Modeler's Guide and the Dispatch will become very irritated with you. It is possible that 'der, 'ding, Craftsman and CTT might even join up with them to stop you. They all can use good material and you are stealing it from them. Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> To: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 9:01 PM Subject: [S-Trains] More new pages >From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> > >Hats off to Jerry Poniatowski for his outstanding skills in modeling and >photography. >The three new ones are.... >http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/budd/PII.html >http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/budd/PIII.html >http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/budd/PIV.html >If you like what you see send Jerry a note, I am sure he would love to >here your comments. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2594	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Organizations

Brothers, I saw the request for organization recommendations and did not see a mention of NMRA and the local Region. I'm a member of the NMRA and of my local Region thereof (the SSR - Sun Shine Region). I find the publications, functions, social aspects and other membership benefits to be well worthwhile. The emphasis is on scale railroading and most members are in other scales that the one we have chosen, but, over and above all of that the major thrust of the organization is on model railroading in general. They provide standards, recommended practices and a program for conformity of manufacturers to established guidelines. There is a wealth of prototype information for the railway historians among us and excellent service for members from the library in Chattanooga - send them a request and they send you a bibliography or a reprint. The monthly Bulletin is pretty good. The modeling articles often have information that applies to all scales. The Regions are local organizations that operate within the National. Florida, for instance is one Region. Here we have two conventions each year to meet, have clinics, socialize, tour layouts and hold contests. Last fall the convention in Orlando had a couple of nice tin plate layouts including an excellent one with Flyer (O and S) and operating accessories. Other regions do similar things. The NMRA has a page at: http://www.mcs.net/~weyand/nmra/ and the SSR has a site at: http://host.fptoday.com/ssr/ Give it a thought. Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2595	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: AF SALE!

Large American Flyer collection for sale. Franklin set, Baldwin, handcar, boxcars, tank cars, flatcars, hoppers, cabooses, accessories (incl. 785 coal loader), etc. Nice stuff, not overrated junk. All items subject to prior sale. Selling to buy material to construct our layouts. If interested, e-mail for list direct to: <borj@...> (Bill Sandrus) <jeichmann@...> (John Eichmann, M-F, 8-5 MDT only) YourS, John Eichmann Bill Sandrus Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2596	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: SHS cars

Does anyone have an S-Helper Service 10-1-2 that he might be persuaded to sell for something less than the Brazilian national debt? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2597	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: Great Lakes area events?

Hello, I am wondering how I can find out about any meets / shows in the Michigan / Ohio area that are being held in May. I am only interested in American Flyer & compatible stuff. Thanks, Chuck ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2598	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Ohio trains shows in May

The S-Spree will be held in Dayton on April 30th and May 1st. That's half in May. The S-Spree is of the two big all S-gauge shows. See Paul Yorke's S-Trains site for a link to the S-Spree website. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2599	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: Keeping cars on the track

I have an AM Baldwin switcher that I run on my All Aboard pikemaster set and solved the derailment problem by changing the locomotive couplers to AM passenger car couplers. The longer shank allows the coupler to swing enough to reduce the bind that causes derailments. Also had to add a small shim underneath the coupler to hold it to correct height. The couplers stick out a little from the end of the engine but it's not bad. As far as operating on pikemaster track, my Baldwin also does not like the switches but will run thru them if operated slowly. The AF Baldwins encounter this also.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2600	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: Keeping cars on the track

You'll also find the Gilbert Baldwins when sold for Pikemaster track have the footboards clipped off. These stick out just far enough to hit some car corners on the tighter Pikemaster curves. Another bit of AF trivia! Guess it was cheaper to have the AF 'ladies' clip the footboards than to change the mold--or they'd already molded the bodies when the problem was discovered. Notice the PA Locos also had their nose cutouts widened too, the LTI ones are from this late, modified mold. While I'm posting this, also the GPs received shortened steps. Wonder who decreed the tighter curves--it sure made for a bunch of re-engineering! S' David D. PS, I do think you will find the AM coupler bodies are of a slightly different shape than Gilberts, and yes, they do react a bit differently with AF couplers, I don't know if it's causing any problems, though.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2601	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Wanted: gargraves S-gauge track

Hello.....Im looking to purchase about 3 feet of AF compatible track, something that looks a bit less tinplate than the standard AF track...........anyone with a few sections (straight) that they'd like to part with please contact me at gf3897@... Thanks, Gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2602	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: bean counters,etc

Rock Island trademark rights are held by The Maytag Company, the laundry applaince people, their man in charge is Mr. Edward Graham, Vice President and General Counsel. The process was that Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad became Chicago Pacific Corporation, the trustee liquidateor, which passed to Hoover Corporation, the sweeper people, and Maytag bought out Hoover. I have not met Mr. Graham, but did correspond with him in my capacity of Sec-Treas of Rock Island Technical Society; from which I "retired" last year. They are not as hardnosed as CSX by any means, but they are concerned about those who want to profit from the trademark. I got the impression models were not a problem, but a restaurant such as a guy wanted to do in Des Moines would. dje Toyguy5344@... wrote: > From: Toyguy5344@... > > on the subject of road names-big L dropped their Rock Island set last year > because > the owner of the name(i don't remember, but the connection to railroading was > questionable) either wanted the proverbial arm and leg for usage or just flat > out refused to let them to use it.and, same theme, different medium, about 10 > years ago, Boeing came close to stopping production of ALL plastic models of > their aircraft- they were named as responsible in a lawsuit against Monogram > concerning a child swallowing a prop from Monogram(now Revellogram)'s 1/48 > (0-gague) scale B-17. > Pretty far effin' out, wouldn't you say? Apparently our litiginous society > has created a need for companies to cover their a###s from silly lawsuits,and > we,the enthusiasts, must suffer.-john marganski > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > G-SHOCK SPORTS WATCH - Built Tough! Built Cool! G-SHOCK keeps you in > Sync! Shock Resistant and Loaded with Features! Electo-luminescent, > Satisfaction Guaranteed*No-Hassle Returns*Only $69 Free Freight in US > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe6 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2603	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Re: bean counters,etc

Rock Island trademark rights are held by The Maytag Company, the laundry applaince people, their man in charge is Mr. Edward Graham, Vice President and General Counsel. The process was that Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad became Chicago Pacific Corporation, the trustee liquidateor, which passed to Hoover Corporation, the sweeper people, and Maytag bought out Hoover. I have not met Mr. Graham, but did correspond with him in my capacity of Sec-Treas of Rock Island Technical Society; from which I "retired" last year. They are not as hardnosed as CSX by any means, but they are concerned about those who want to profit from the trademark. I got the impression models were not a problem, but a restaurant such as a guy wanted to do in Des Moines would. dje Toyguy5344@... wrote: > From: Toyguy5344@... > > on the subject of road names-big L dropped their Rock Island set last year > because > the owner of the name(i don't remember, but the connection to railroading was > questionable) either wanted the proverbial arm and leg for usage or just flat > out refused to let them to use it.and, same theme, different medium, about 10 > years ago, Boeing came close to stopping production of ALL plastic models of > their aircraft- they were named as responsible in a lawsuit against Monogram > concerning a child swallowing a prop from Monogram(now Revellogram)'s 1/48 > (0-gague) scale B-17. > Pretty far effin' out, wouldn't you say? Apparently our litiginous society > has created a need for companies to cover their a###s from silly lawsuits,and > we,the enthusiasts, must suffer.-john marganski > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > G-SHOCK SPORTS WATCH - Built Tough! Built Cool! G-SHOCK keeps you in > Sync! Shock Resistant and Loaded with Features! Electo-luminescent, > Satisfaction Guaranteed*No-Hassle Returns*Only $69 Free Freight in US > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe6 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2604	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: SD45

I got an e-mail today from modern list member Jerry Smith which contained both sides of an announcement from Southwind Models that it was prepared to import a whack of SD45s for most of the US roads which had them. The trick is that SW has to know within the month who is interested. Alas I'm too much of computer dufus to be able repost the e-mail from Jerry. However I suggest you contact southwind directly see their ads or on Craig O'Connell's list or e-mail Jerry at jgerard@... for more details. you can also ask me and I can check what's in my computer. If we figure out how to send out the announcement, we will. So far it has stumped by computer whiz aka 18-year-old son. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2605	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: Unsubscibe

unsubscibe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2606	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: More pikemaster trivia

The tie base used on the pikemaster track on the All Aboard panels is slightly different from the standard production track in that the second tie on each end of a section is enlarged in the center to hold the brass mounting eyelet.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2607	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/23/1999
Subject: S-Spree in Dayton

Just a quick note to ask if anyone on the list is coming to the s-spree in Dayton next weekend.If you are stop by and say hello to me.I'm a Miami Valley s-gauge member and I will be there. Hope to get to meet anyone whom will be there. I 'll be making most of the announcements so stop by and say hi Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2608	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: SWM SD45

To elaborate slightly on Alex's note on the SouthWind Models SD45, the list of US railroads being considered is based on Class 1 railroads which originally purchased the SD45, and some of the merged railroads (i.e. PRR & PC--but no CR/GN, NP, CB&Q, C&S, & BN). The N&W and Southern are high short hood versions as is a AT&SF B unit a high hood version. Also, the SDP45 and SD45T-2 models are listed. Although CR & WC are not listed, I'm sure if enough interest is shown for these RR's SWM will do them. This is obviously a list to see where the interest is, and a final decision as to what will be produced will come from this list. However, the models will be produced only if there is enough interest, and the quantity of models to be purchased is large enough to warrent production. Jettie Padgett of SWM is going to Korea the end of May to do final inspection of the SP/UP Atlantics, and was looking for some sort of quantity info on the SD45 before he went to Korea. All he is looking for now is numbers--not money. The expected price is in the $900 to $1200 range depending on total quantities, and the number of variations to be done. Although the SD45 is almost a 35 year old locomotive, there are still a lot operating today. The only other modern locomotives produced in S are the SD50 & SD60 by Overland, and the previously overland produced GP38, SD40, and SD40T. River Raisin offered the U33C, but never received enough support to produce it. If the SD45 is a model you want in S, you better let SWM know that you have an interest. since Jettie works at night, you can call him from 3 pm to 8 pm (ET) except Wed.is all day, and Thur. is all day up to 8 pm. His phone is (813) 752-1636 and FAX is (813) 752-0656. Lee Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2609	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: Re: More new pages

It took me a while to get it - This is a joke! It's hard to tell without the facial expressions. You need to string us all along and then hit us with a zinger at the end to let us know how silly we have been to take you seriously. Or maybe I am just reading my email too late at night. -- Dale Smith Pacifica, California Bill Porter wrote: > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > > Paul, > > I feel that you need to be warned. If you continue to publish photographs > and articles like this the paper publishers at S Gaugian, S/Sn3 Modeler's > Guide and the Dispatch will become very irritated with you. It is possible > that 'der, 'ding, Craftsman and CTT might even join up with them to stop > you. They all can use good material and you are stealing it from them. > > Bill Porter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> > To: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> > Date: Thursday, April 22, 1999 9:01 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] More new pages > > >From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> > > > >Hats off to Jerry Poniatowski for his outstanding skills in modeling and > >photography. > >The three new ones are.... > >http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/budd/PII.html > >http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/budd/PIII.html > >http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/budd/PIV.html > >If you like what you see send Jerry a note, I am sure he would love to > >here your comments. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Tired of empty chat rooms and out of date bulletin boards? > http://www.ONElist.com > ONElist: Making the Internet Intimate > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2610	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: Re: S-Spree in Dayton

Dear Chris, It will be my first visit to Dayton. I am looking forward to seeing you and our friends from Ohio and beyond next week. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2611	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: Re: SWM SD45

Dear lee, I talked to Jettie last night and he told me that Conrail will be offered, he just need to know which version (EL, RDG, PC etc.) to produce in CR livery. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2612	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 208

Interesting!!! The NMRA even have a Modern Prototype S site dated around 1995 by a Dave Bailey. Dave are you with us and can you get this updated to 1999 with Paul Yorke's site referenced for links? Glenn > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:53:36 -0400 > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > Subject: Organizations > > Brothers, > > The Regions are local organizations that operate within the National. >Florida, for instance is one Region. Here we have two conventions each >year to meet, have clinics, socialize, tour layouts and hold contests. > Last fall the convention in Orlando had a couple of nice tin plate >layouts including an excellent one with Flyer (O and S) and operating >accessories. Other regions do similar things. > > The NMRA has a page at: http://www.mcs.net/~weyand/nmra/ > and the SSR has a site at: http://host.fptoday.com/ssr/ > > Give it a thought. > > Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2613	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: American Models RS-3

I need to take this apart and re-secure the dummy truck which has apparently lost a screw which I found loose. How does this come apart?? I took loose the obvious screws at the corners, but it will not budge and I do not want to force it? Thanks in advance for any help!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2614	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/24/1999
Subject: Lionel command control

Several weeks ago someone asked whether Lionel command control would work with Flyer equipment. A friend of mine bought the command control recently, and it does work including bells and whistles. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2615	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: Re: American Models RS-3

Dear Ted, The zamac frame has two pins (one on each side) that lock into the plastic body just below the walkway and not quite in the center of the model. If you spread the body at this point, the chassis will release. You should have received a 4 page instruction sheet with your model. If you do not have one, contact us and I will see if I can dig one up. I wrote this about 8 years ago. Ted Weiler wrote: > > I need to take this apart and re-secure the dummy truck which has > apparently lost a screw which I found loose.� How does this come > apart??� I took loose the obvious screws at the corners, but it will > not budge and I do not want to force it? > � > Thanks in advance for any help!! -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2616	From: michael prell	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: (no subject)

_________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2617	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel CC

In a message dated 4/25/99 4:59:17 AM, you wrote: <<Several weeks ago someone asked whether Lionel command control would work with Flyer equipment. A friend of mine bought the command control recently, and it does work including bells and whistles. >> With Gilbert AF, Lionel AF, or both??????? Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2618	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: ircle and S-trains Sunday Chats

I know that this has been posted before but I lost the information. I would like to participate in the S chats on Sundays but I need some additional info on how to connect through ircle. Can any one out there help? Thanks in advance. Tom Rolfsmeyer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2619	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: GE 25 Ton and GE 70 Ton

Looking for Railmaster Exports GE 25 Ton Endcab orr GE 70 Ton diesels in Sn3 1/2 for Newfoundland Railway model in Sn42. Or any other builers for such models. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2620	From: John Foley	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: Frank Titman's Layout

Hi Folks Most of you probably seen these photos of Franks layout from the Lehigh Valley S Gaugers website. But in case you haven't enjoy http://members.xoom.com/lvsg/frankt.htm John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2621	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel CC

In a message dated 4/25/99 11:58:06 AM, PortLines@... writes: << <<Several weeks ago someone asked whether Lionel command control would work with Flyer equipment. A friend of mine bought the command control recently, and it does work including bells and whistles. >> With Gilbert AF, Lionel AF, or both??????? Doug >> TMCC has a only very limited capability with Flyer (A FULL TMCC system for the new O gauge equipment is a constant voltage arrangement, by the way, in which the voltage is varied internally in the loco 'by wire' via remote control.). It will activate the bells and whistles on LTI Flyer when used in conjunction with the newer Lionel transformers, and it can also be used to activate the whistle in the 314AW because this is a DC offset system. But a new Lionel transformer will do that sans the TMCC remote. The various other Gilbert whistles and horns can not activated with TMCC. The majority of capabilities of TMCC are in no way valid for Flyer of any vintage (i.e., smoke boost, brakes, the more complex sounds capabilities, locomotive assignments in common blocks, remote uncoupling in any location, constant voltage lighting, etc.). CC equipped locomotives are required to 'do' TMCC. Pity. It is a very good system, and could have been fitted onto recent Lionel Flyer production, had they choosen to do so. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2622	From: AC4400W@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: SWM SD45-Conrail

I am definately interested in a SD45 and would dearly love to see a CR SD45-2 version. As for info: CR 6654-6666 are ex-EL 3669-3681 NS and CSX will split the group, but two went to the RBMN prior to the CR split. All except the 6666 got CR Quality lettering. -Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2623	From: Allen Evans	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: English S

What is the British term for our S-Scale?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2624	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: American Models RS-3

Thanks to Mike Green and Charles Smith for answering and help!! I had a power truck that came loose, the hole the mounting screw goes into appears to be stripped at least partially. I've asked for help from American Models. Anyone else have this and found a fix?? Thanks again to the two mentioned above. This is a great forum, I've learned a lot in the short time I've subscribed.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2625	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: a newbie's eBay experience

After asking the list what folks thought of the eBay experience, I thought I'd share the fruits of my recent bidding. I received four boxes the other day, all items I'd won on eBay. The first: a C&NW Baldwin, purchased for $115 from a seller in Nova Scotia. The unit was exactly as shown/described on eBay, right down to the minor repair to the frame near the cab end of the unit (a common Baldwin problem, I'm told). The seller e-mailed me when he got me money order and when he shipped, which I appreciated. The second box: A BN "Classic" boxcar (American Models). Nothing complicated here; it was a MIB piece bought from Flying Scotsman Hobbies. I paid around thirty dollars for it, probably close to what I'd pay in a hobby store. Third item: A Flyer 312 K5 Pacific. Again, the seller did a great job describing/showing the engine, so I wasn't disappointed. I paid $150, a fair price given its condition and age (it has the reverser in the boiler and smoke/choo choo in tender). I knew from the eBay description and photo that the engine had faded lettering on the cab and tender. It didn't bother me then, but I felt differently when I saw it for the first time. Although a nice engine, the 312 I bought didn't "feel" right to me. Granted, this is strictly an emotional reaction with no logic or reason behind it (I know I can re-letter the engine with decals, or so I've been told). On the other hand, if I'd seen this engine in a hobby shop or at a swap meet, I might have passed on it. The seller didn't do anything wrong, nor do I regret buying it. But I can understand how seeing the piece beforehand can influence your buying decision (as others on this list have pointed out). Finally, I won a bid on an AF Santa Fe PA/PB set from 1950-1952 (with the streamlined coupler pocket on the cab unit). It didn't strike me as unusual that the eBay photo showed the units photographed from the top. Nor was I bothered by the seller's comment that the paint needed to be touched up but was otherwise in good condition. No, what troubled me was that the PA's I pulled out of the box had been modified with "Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo" decals on the sides and nose. Not a Flyer original, to say the least. Being a former resident of Hamilton, Ontario, it wasn't likely that I'd *failed* to notice this in the seller's photo or desccription. Granted, I bought the pair for $170. And I'll probably repaint them. But I'm not happy with what feels like a misleading description and photo. If the seller doesn't respond to my e-mail within four days, I'll post a negative rating on eBay. Overall, my experience was pretty satisfying. But thanks to several people on this list, I now know about several hobby stores and private dealers where I can AF stuff with more assurance. I'll continue to look through eBay for some items, but I'll be more cautious before I buy. Thanks again to everyone who generously gave their help and advice! Paul Schneider San Francisco, CA _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2626	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: painting AF PAs in CN colors

As I mentioed in an earlier post, I'll probably repaint the TH&B Flyer PA's I just bought on eBay. I'd like to see them in CN colors (Canadian National's 1960's vermillion/white/black). BTW, CN DID test Alco PAs in the 1950s, but wound up buying four motor FPAs instead). I'm not a painter; I'd like to pay someone to paint the units. Am I asking the impossible (painting S-gauge equipment in CN colors)? And can anyone on this list recommend someone who specializes in painting AF? Thanks. Paul Schneider San Francisco, CA _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2627	From: paul1049	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2628	From: RBaratta@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: Track

Hi Folks: I am in need of new track for my Alco PA's. I am not really crazy about the S track with the molded roadbed. My Alco's will not make the curves on Pikemaster track. Does anyone know of new S track similar to Pikemaster track? Thanks...... Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2629	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/25/1999
Subject: SWM SD45-Conrail

Dave, The -2 version of the SD45 had quite a few differences than the straight-up SD45. If SWM gets enough requests for the SDP45, you might have a better chance of geting SWM to slightly modify a few of the models from the passenger version to the freight version the EL purchsed which became CR 6667-6699. However, as all things SWM does, if they receive enough requests for the -2 version, I'm sure he will do them. After all, The SD45T-2 he listed is quite a bit different than all the other variations of the SD45 listed. The main key here is that SWM needs enough requests before anything will be done. So,if anyone wants any of these SD45's, you have to let SWM know what you want, or it won't happen. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2630	From: jim	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Railmaster Exports GE 25 Ton Endcab

On ebay I saw a GE-90 series for Sn31/2 for sale. It is item #93262570 and listed as a White Pass & Yukon GE Diesel S Scale/HO gauge. Hope this helps. Jim. >>>>>Looking for Railmaster Exports GE 25 Ton Endcab orr GE 70 Ton diesels in Sn31/2 for Newfoundland Railway model in Sn42. Or any other builers for such models. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2631	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track

Bob, Check out the American Models track line, it is made with code148 rail and will allow operation of AF, Hi-rail & Scale. Good luck, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2632	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Allen Evans was asking "What is the British term for our S-Scale?" The answer is "S scale." The scale was developed in the United Kingdom and the S Scale Model Railway Society there is the oldest S-scale organization in the world. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2633	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: more info on SD45

[Image]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2634	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track

Options are: American Models sectional curved track. Not compatible with flyer switches so must also use American Models switches, which will work with your Alcos. Thwey also make flex track if you're so inclined. Address is http://www.americanmodels.com/ Another option is Gargraves which is available at most train stores. This comes in flex and lately also in sectional with varying radii. Also available is K-line which is identical to AF except includes 27" radius sections. Don't forget that any train show should offer ;ots of used flyer track if you can use it. RBaratta@... wrote: > > From: RBaratta@... > > Hi Folks: > I am in need of new track for my Alco PA's. I am not really crazy about the S > track with the molded roadbed. My Alco's will not make the curves on > Pikemaster track. Does anyone know of new S track similar to Pikemaster > track? Thanks...... > > Bob > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > G-SHOCK SPORTS WATCH - Built Tough! Built Cool! G-SHOCK keeps you in > Sync! Shock Resistant and Loaded with Features! Electo-luminescent, > Satisfaction Guaranteed*No-Hassle Returns*Only $69 Free Freight in US > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe6 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2635	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Track

Bob Baratta wrote: >I am in need of new track for my Alco PA's. I am not really crazy about the S >track with the molded roadbed. My Alco's will not make the curves on >Pikemaster track. Does anyone know of new S track similar to Pikemaster track? Bob: I am not exactly sure of what you mean when you refer to "the S track with the molded roadbed." Is this the S-Helper Service new track? The reason your PA's will not negotiate the Pikemaster curves is because they were built for standard radius Flyer track. The front aprons are not cut as wide as the ones on Pikemaster sets, so the couplers hit and derail the trucks. A discussion of this was carried on this mail list and is available on Digest 208, originally sent Sat. Apr. 24, 1999. You can get there via this address: http://www.onelist.com/viewarchive.cgi?listname=S%2DTrains&archive=208.gz Note that ALL posts to this list are available. Just use the "Archive Index" link you will find on that page. If you want a track that looks like Pikemaster, use Gargraves. This product was formerly only sold in 3 foot straight sections that are bendable, however, it recently became available as fixed radius sectional track. With plastic ties and a more gradual curve, it will work fine with your Alcos. Switches are also available. Pick up some of the train magazines, S-Gaugian for instance, and scan the ads. Gargraves is available by mail order if you don't live near a distributor. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2636	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: TMCC and Flyer

As was pointed out here, Flyers can operate in the non-command mode with TMCC. In this mode, the system DOES vary the track voltage, so all equipment in a given block will be affected by the controller at one time. Since new Lionel Flyer uses Lionel style horns and bells, these work under Lionel's protocol, so they are compatible with TMCC. The 314AW is just a gift. TMCC does not require a newer style Lionel transformer to do these operations. It will work with a rusty old prewar transformer. Once TMCC takes over the controls, any toy train power source will do. Of course, the bigger the transformer, the more you get out of it, to the limit imposed by TMCC. And, of course, you could buy the whole system, including the powerhouse, which eliminates your transformer by using the one designed for the system. Lately, there has been much hoo-hah about Train America Studios' new TMCC compatible command boards. Working as a Lionel partner, TAS has developed a full command control board which can be installed in virtually any engine (or tender) to take advantage of the full remote control capabilities of TMCC. In their ads, TAS encourages use in Flyer equipment. For more info, you can go to this address: http://www.trainamerica.com/ I wrote to them today and I will post the answer I get here. Then we can find out if TMCC is viable for our use. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2637	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: apologies

I hope that lengthy note about the SD45 didn't mess up anybody's system. I thought I had erased it. It's still not clear to me what SW is gonna do about polling the many S scalers who aren't on the net. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2638	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track

-----Original Message----- From: RBaratta@... <RBaratta@...> To: busy-boy@... <busy-boy@...> Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Track >Thanks Chris: >I just sold about 100 pieces of Pikemaster track because my Alco's wouldn't >make the turns, and I have a big oval of older AF track but it is not really >to good because my PA's still derail, the track is old and has been through >several moves. Question: What do people mean when they say code 100, or code >110 track? What "code" is the old AF track? Thanks........ > >Bob Bob: Code is the height of a rail in decimal fractions of an inch, thus code 100 is .100 of an inch high. Go to this address: http://users.vnet.net/paulrver/rp-15_1.html and you will see the NMRA standards for track code. The larger the number, the higher the rail. True scale height in S gauge might range from code 83 (.083 in.) for light rail and narrow gauge, to code 148 (.148 in.) for Pennsy mainline 155 pound rail (or so says Don Thompson about his code 148 product!) It is not proper to code Pikemaster track because it was not maufactured in the shape of an actual rail, but was a bent cove of sheetmetal. I have not measured any. Original Flyer rail is less than a 1/4 inch high but more than 3/16". The only NMRA code in this range is 208. My best estimate, therefore is that standard Flyer track is nominally code 208 (.208 inches high.) And that is why the scale guys call us Hi-Railers [:-)] Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2639	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track

The SHS track (Don Thompson) is code 125, which will work with AF, and is about right for PRR mainline. American Models makes 148. At 11:32 AM 4/26/99 -0400, busy-boy wrote: >From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> >The larger the number, the higher the rail. True scale height in S gauge >might range from code 83 (.083 in.) for light rail and narrow gauge, to code >148 (.148 in.) for Pennsy mainline 155 pound rail (or so says Don Thompson >about his code 148 product!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2640	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track

AF is code 220. Gargraves is even bigger. American models code 148 is a nice compromise and he makes a complete track system with switches. AF runs on rail down to code 125, (125/1000") -----Original Message----- From: busy-boy <busy-boy@...> To: RBaratta@... <RBaratta@...> Cc: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 11:32 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Track >From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > > >-----Original Message----- >From: RBaratta@... <RBaratta@...> >To: busy-boy@... <busy-boy@...> >Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 9:52 AM >Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Track > > >>Thanks Chris: >>I just sold about 100 pieces of Pikemaster track because my Alco's wouldn't >>make the turns, and I have a big oval of older AF track but it is not >really >>to good because my PA's still derail, the track is old and has been through >>several moves. Question: What do people mean when they say code 100, or >code >>110 track? What "code" is the old AF track? Thanks........ >> >>Bob > > >Bob: >Code is the height of a rail in decimal fractions of an inch, thus code 100 >is .100 of an inch high. Go to this address: > >http://users.vnet.net/paulrver/rp-15_1.html > >and you will see the NMRA standards for track code. > >The larger the number, the higher the rail. True scale height in S gauge >might range from code 83 (.083 in.) for light rail and narrow gauge, to code >148 (.148 in.) for Pennsy mainline 155 pound rail (or so says Don Thompson >about his code 148 product!) > >It is not proper to code Pikemaster track because it was not maufactured in >the shape of an actual rail, but was a bent cove of sheetmetal. I have not >measured any. Original Flyer rail is less than a 1/4 inch high but more >than 3/16". The only NMRA code in this range is 208. My best estimate, >therefore is that standard Flyer track is nominally code 208 (.208 inches >high.) > >And that is why the scale guys call us Hi-Railers [:-)] > >Enjoy, >Chris Zizzo > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Looking to expand your world? >http://www.ONElist.com >ONElist has over 115,000 e-mail communities from which to chose! >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2641	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

I under stood that A C Gilbert invented S scale just after the WW2. Looks like the foreigners are trying to steal The credit for another of our inventions. Larry sigma@... wrote: > From: sigma@... > > Allen Evans was asking > > "What is the British term for our S-Scale?" > > The answer is "S scale." > > The scale was developed in the United Kingdom and the S Scale Model > Railway Society there is the oldest S-scale organization in the world. > > Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for the perfect gift for a friend? > http://www.ONElist.com > Tell them about ONElist's 115,000 free e-mail communities! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2642	From: Bill Banta	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track

Tomalco makes code 100 flex...... b. banta

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2643	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Actually The scale was originated in the US in the late thirties by C-D Hobbies of Cleveland. I remember building C-D airplane kits cause I'm older than dirt. Whether English use predates this I don't know. -----Original Message----- From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> To: sigma@... <sigma@...> Cc: Allen Evans <alevans@...>; S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Monday, April 26, 1999 12:58 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: English S >From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > >I under stood that A C Gilbert invented S scale just after the WW2. Looks >like the foreigners are >trying to steal The credit for another of our inventions. >Larry > >sigma@... wrote: > >> From: sigma@... >> >> Allen Evans was asking >> >> "What is the British term for our S-Scale?" >> >> The answer is "S scale." >> >> The scale was developed in the United Kingdom and the S Scale Model >> Railway Society there is the oldest S-scale organization in the world. >> >> Joe Pereira >> >> email: sigma@... >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Looking for the perfect gift for a friend? >> http://www.ONElist.com >> Tell them about ONElist's 115,000 free e-mail communities! >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >> List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms? >http://www.ONElist.com >Sign up for a new e-mail list today! >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2644	From: Neil Trump	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Off topic stealing credit!!

Talking about stealing credit, Alexander Fleming a Scot made the initial discovery of penicillin. Realising its importance to the medical world he donated his discovery to all. Guess what, the Yanks then went and put a patent on it, I'll say no more. Neil T. From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> I under stood that A C Gilbert invented S scale just after the WW2. Looks like the foreigners are trying to steal The credit for another of our inventions. Larry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2645	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Ed Loizeaux, Status of Heart Surgery

Howdy Friends Most of you know Ed Loizeaux, past president of the NASG and publisher of the 3/16 Scale Railroading magazine, who is always so bouncy and chipper at the conventions, so it may surprise you as much as it did me. Got this message today. Arden Goehring wrote: > > Hey Billy, > > I'm digging up email addresses here and there. I don't know who has heard, > so forgive me if this is repetitive. Ed had double bypass heart surgery on > Apr 15. It was a pretty sudden surprise and not much fun as you can > imagine. He did have one of the best doctors in the business. > > He went home from the hospital last Thur night. He is very weak, but the > vital signs are normal. Basically they told him it would be 3 weeks until > he feels half-way decent. I think he is disappointed in his progress, but I > suspect it is normal for what he has gone through. > > Anyway he is not ready for phone calls. Emails would be good. He can > handle them at his own pace. > > Take care, > > Arden If you get a chance, send Ed a note loizeaux@... Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2646	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!

Hi all! Well, I don't know who stole what, but one thing we Yanks ain't gonna lay claim to is Lucas' invention of the Short Circuit!! (for those of you unfamilliar with sport cars, and Lucas Electric componants, this is a JOKE--made very light-heartedly too! Oh, wait there's another electric pun in there, gads I can't get away from them, sorry!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2647	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Yes, the gentleman was correct about the Brits and S Scale. Number 1 gauge was pouplar in the UK and some enthusist started building model railways in half of that scale and originally they called it H1 gauge, later known as S gauge. A.C. Gilbert did not invent S gauge, allthough his line of American Flyer S gauge/scale did much to make the gauge/scale popular. We have much to be thankful to A.C. for. There was an article in the model railroad press recently that shows some early S scale British loco models, but I can not remember the name or issue of the magazine. Model railroad as a hobby in its present form goes back to the British as does the invention of the railway/railroad. The oldest model railroad club, of which I am a member, is the Model Railway Club, London, UK. Take care, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2648	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

When I was the NASG promotions chairman, I had Sam Powell and several other "S" gaugers prepare and article about the 50th anniversary of S in American. From our research we discovered that: 1:64 scale trains were first made in England during the early 30's. Ed Packard owner of C-D Models in Cleveland, used this scale for his trains featured at the Chicago Worlds Fair. A.C. Gilbert saw them there before he acquired the American Flyer line of trains. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2649	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Did that date predate about 1937 or so when D-D started C-D scale which was actually S? TPDavis7@... wrote: > > From: TPDavis7@... > > Yes, the gentleman was correct about the Brits and S Scale. Number 1 gauge > was pouplar in the UK and some enthusist started building model railways in > half of that scale and originally they called it H1 gauge, later known as S > gauge. A.C. Gilbert did not invent S gauge, allthough his line of > American Flyer S gauge/scale did much to make the gauge/scale popular. We > have much to be thankful to A.C. for. There was an article in the model > railroad press recently that shows some early S scale British loco models, > but I can not remember the name or issue of the magazine. Model railroad as > a hobby in its present form goes back to the British as does the invention of > the railway/railroad. The oldest model railroad club, of which I am a > member, is the Model Railway Club, London, UK. Take care, Tom Davis, > Charlotte, N.C. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > G-SHOCK SPORTS WATCH - Built Tough! Built Cool! G-SHOCK keeps you in > Sync! Shock Resistant and Loaded with Features! Electo-luminescent, > Satisfaction Guaranteed*No-Hassle Returns*Only $69 Free Freight in US > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe6 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2650	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: GE 25 Ton and GE 70 Ton

In message <025d01be8f4a$65926f40$ac64a8d8@baracing>, Andrew Baird <baracing@...> writes >From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > >Looking for Railmaster Exports GE 25 Ton Endcab orr GE 70 Ton diesels in Sn3 >1/2 >for Newfoundland Railway model in Sn42. Or any other builers for such >models. Whitemetal body of GE 25tonner is made by Railmaster (NZ) but you need to make your own chassis. Jack Chappel (Steam Depot) talked about to a resin body f0r a 70 tonner, he sells a $$ tonner resin body but I think the 70 tonner is dead - perhaps somebody could ask him? -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2651	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Lawrence: A.C. didn't invent 1/64. I always understood it came from Cleveland. That's Ohio, not Korea. Gotta watch them there feriners! Enjoy, Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2652	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!

Ok, OK, Dick Wholf just confirmed the British thing also, so I'll get my size 13 out from between the bicuspids. Neil Trump wrote: > Talking about stealing credit, Alexander Fleming a Scot made the > initial discovery of penicillin. Realising its importance to the > medical world he donated his discovery to all. Guess what, the Yanks > then went and put a patent on it, I'll say no more. Neil T. From: > lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > I under stood that A C Gilbert invented S scale just after the WW2. > Looks > like the foreigners are > trying to steal The credit for another of our inventions. > Larry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2653	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!

I don't think A. C. Gilbert invented S gauge. Mr. Packard of Cleveland Models invented S gauge in 1937; I met him at one our conventions some years back. Mr. Packard is the one who designated the S based on the letter that appears most when you write out our size specs. This is where the "wood butcher" nickname for S gauge came from--their steam locomotives were made with wood boilers and outside wrappers, etc. I am sure there is more to regurgitate about this, come on, scale guys, help me out!!! Neil Trump wrote: > Talking about stealing credit, Alexander Fleming a Scot made the > initial discovery of penicillin. Realising its importance to the > medical world he donated his discovery to all. Guess what, the Yanks > then went and put a patent on it, I'll say no more. Neil T. From: > lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > I under stood that A C Gilbert invented S scale just after the WW2. > Looks > like the foreigners are > trying to steal The credit for another of our inventions. > Larry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2654	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

I had always heard that AC Gilbert had invented S scale. I guess it doesn't matter but sure shatters My "American dream" I found out the Russians invented almost every thing on this green Earth and now the English are stealing our S scale. " boo hoo" Larry Bruce Pilcher wrote: > Lawrence: > A.C. didn't invent 1/64. I always understood it came from Cleveland. > That's Ohio, not Korea. Gotta watch them there feriners! > Enjoy, > Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2655	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Cleveland!!!!! That is a foreign state isn't . Larry Bruce Pilcher wrote: > From: Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> > > Lawrence: > A.C. didn't invent 1/64. I always understood it came from Cleveland. > That's Ohio, not Korea. Gotta watch them there feriners! > Enjoy, > Bruce > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > G-SHOCK SPORTS WATCH - Built Tough! Built Cool! G-SHOCK keeps you in > Sync! Shock Resistant and Loaded with Features! Electo-luminescent, > Satisfaction Guaranteed*No-Hassle Returns*Only $69 Free Freight in US > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe6 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2656	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

My heart is broken. sigh!!!! Larry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2657	From: jim@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 15:43:34 EDT, TPDavis wrote: >Number 1 gauge >was pouplar in the UK and some enthusist started building model railways in >half of that scale and originally they called it H1 gauge, later known as S >gauge. A.C. Gilbert did not invent S gauge, allthough his line of >American Flyer S gauge/scale did much to make the gauge/scale popular. We >have much to be thankful to A.C. for. There was actually some commercial production of H1 (Half one) models in the 30's in the UK - this was in the period when the smaller scales were becoming increasingly popular. However, the war stopped a lot of the development, and the post war manufacturing restrictions, etc., stopped a lot of pre-war modelling manufacture restarting. There were also two scales - 5mm/ft and 3/16" - since there were also two scales for Gauge 1 in the UK (10mm/ft and 3/8"). The present S Scale society was started as the H1 society just after the war and I believe one of the reasons for changing the name to S was that the "Half One" name had been in commercial use before the war. The oldest known model to "S" scale was built in the 1890's and was featured in an article in the (IIRC) Model Engineer at the time. The model still exists and makes regular appearances in SSMRA displays at exhibitions. It is of a Midland 4-2-2 loco. Jim. There was an article in the model >railroad press recently that shows some early S scale British loco models, >but I can not remember the name or issue of the magazine. Model railroad as >a hobby in its present form goes back to the British as does the invention of >the railway/railroad. The oldest model railroad club, of which I am a >member, is the Model Railway Club, London, UK. Take care, Tom Davis, >Charlotte, N.C. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >G-SHOCK SPORTS WATCH - Built Tough! Built Cool! G-SHOCK keeps you in >Sync! Shock Resistant and Loaded with Features! Electo-luminescent, >Satisfaction Guaranteed*No-Hassle Returns*Only $69 Free Freight in US > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe6 >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2658	From: Richard.Spritz@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 211

Well, that isn't quite right, Neil. Fleming indeed discovered penicillin (by accident), for which he later shared a Nobel Prize with Chain and Florey, who were able to purify a sufficient amount for clinical trials. That certainly seems like credit to me. Unfortunately, the Chain-Florey method was impractical for producing penicillin in mass quantities, and throughout World War 2 researchers throughout the world tried frantically to solve the structure of penicillin so that it could be mass-produced. After the war, everybody gave up except for John Sheehan at MIT, who eventually solved its structure and invented a method for its de novo synthesis. It was this mass-production method that was eventually patented, rather than penicillin itself. The patent, of course, was a requirement for drug companies to then undertake production of penicillin commercially. Along with my American Flyer trains, I also remember that even in the mid-1950s scarlet fever was still considered a very scary disease. Richard A. Spritz, M.D. Professor and Director, Human Medical Genetics Program University of Colorado Health Sciences Center 4200 E. Ninth Ave., B161 Denver, CO 80262 USA Tel. 303-315-0409 FAX 303-315-0407 Email Richard.Spritz@... Talking about stealing credit, Alexander Fleming a Scot made the initial discovery of penicillin. Realising its importance to the medical world he donated his discovery to all. Guess what, the Yanks then went and put a patent on it, I'll say no more. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2659	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!

This whole thing is a joke. Laugh people. If you don't it is a very long row to hoe And Columbus wasn't the first of the white eyes to the new world and some one else was the first to fly and on it goes. All you need is a very good ad man on wall street. I really don't care who was the first as long as I get to play with some of the toys. You know he who dies with the most toys WINS Larry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2660	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Boy us Indians lost out on every thing.(Cleveland) Larry Robin Thompson wrote: > When I was the NASG promotions chairman, I had Sam Powell and several > other "S" gaugers prepare and article about the 50th anniversary of S in > American. From our research we discovered that: 1:64 scale trains were > first made in England during the early 30's. Ed Packard owner of C-D > Models in Cleveland, used this scale for his trains featured at the > Chicago Worlds Fair. A.C. Gilbert saw them there before he acquired the > American Flyer line of trains. > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2661	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

I am getting two of every message on the S scale list. what is happening? Larry TPDavis7@... wrote: > From: TPDavis7@... > > Yes, the gentleman was correct about the Brits and S Scale. Number 1 gauge > was pouplar in the UK and some enthusist started building model railways in > half of that scale and originally they called it H1 gauge, later known as S > gauge. A.C. Gilbert did not invent S gauge, allthough his line of > American Flyer S gauge/scale did much to make the gauge/scale popular. We > have much to be thankful to A.C. for. There was an article in the model > railroad press recently that shows some early S scale British loco models, > but I can not remember the name or issue of the magazine. Model railroad as > a hobby in its present form goes back to the British as does the invention of > the railway/railroad. The oldest model railroad club, of which I am a > member, is the Model Railway Club, London, UK. Take care, Tom Davis, > Charlotte, N.C. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > G-SHOCK SPORTS WATCH - Built Tough! Built Cool! G-SHOCK keeps you in > Sync! Shock Resistant and Loaded with Features! Electo-luminescent, > Satisfaction Guaranteed*No-Hassle Returns*Only $69 Free Freight in US > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe6 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2662	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!

Larry, Sorry to tell you this but he who dies with the most toys still dies! Story is told of a rich old geezer who tells his family to place a large chest of money in the attic over his death bed so he can grab it "on his way out". Well, he finally dies, and months later the family remembers the chest. The wife goes up in the attic, and sure enough, it's still there. She exclaims, "That old fool, I told him should put this in the basement!" I have found the history lesson quite interesting, I knew the C-D models connection, but not the H-1. It's also good to see that Neil is still with us, Hello! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2663	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 211

I love it. Make a stupid statement and you get an education. I love it Larry Richard.Spritz@... wrote: > From: Richard.Spritz@... > > Well, that isn't quite right, Neil. Fleming indeed discovered penicillin > (by accident), for which he later shared a Nobel Prize with Chain and > Florey, who were able to purify a sufficient amount for clinical trials. > That certainly seems like credit to me. Unfortunately, the Chain-Florey > method was impractical for producing penicillin in mass quantities, and > throughout World War 2 researchers throughout the world tried frantically to > solve the structure of penicillin so that it could be mass-produced. After > the war, everybody gave up except for John Sheehan at MIT, who eventually > solved its structure and invented a method for its de novo synthesis. It > was this mass-production method that was eventually patented, rather than > penicillin itself. The patent, of course, was a requirement for drug > companies to then undertake production of penicillin commercially. Along > with my American Flyer trains, I also remember that even in the mid-1950s > scarlet fever was still considered a very scary disease. > > Richard A. Spritz, M.D. > Professor and Director, > Human Medical Genetics Program > University of Colorado Health Sciences Center > 4200 E. Ninth Ave., B161 > Denver, CO 80262 USA > > Tel. 303-315-0409 > FAX 303-315-0407 > Email Richard.Spritz@... > > Talking about stealing credit, Alexander Fleming a Scot > made the initial discovery of penicillin. Realising its importance to the > medical world he donated his discovery to all. Guess what, the Yanks then > went and put a patent on it, I'll say no more. > > Neil T. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking to expand your world? > http://www.ONElist.com > ONElist has over 115,000 e-mail communities from which to chose! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2664	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!

How can you call it was off topic? S scale was in every message. S scale See Larry David Dewey wrote: > Larry, > Sorry to tell you this but he who dies with the most toys still dies! > Story is told of a rich old geezer who tells his family to place a large > chest of money in the attic over his death bed so he can grab it "on his way > out". > Well, he finally dies, and months later the family remembers the chest. > The wife goes up in the attic, and sure enough, it's still there. She > exclaims, "That old fool, I told him should put this in the basement!" > > I have found the history lesson quite interesting, I knew the C-D models > connection, but not the H-1. > It's also good to see that Neil is still with us, Hello! > S' > David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2665	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!!

Well can we claim TT scale as an american scale even if we can't clain S scale as one? Larry On topic /I\ David Dewey wrote: > Larry, > Sorry to tell you this but he who dies with the most toys still dies! > Story is told of a rich old geezer who tells his family to place a large > chest of money in the attic over his death bed so he can grab it "on his way > out". > Well, he finally dies, and months later the family remembers the chest. > The wife goes up in the attic, and sure enough, it's still there. She > exclaims, "That old fool, I told him should put this in the basement!" > > I have found the history lesson quite interesting, I knew the C-D models > connection, but not the H-1. > It's also good to see that Neil is still with us, Hello! > S' > David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2666	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: S Scale origins

Larry Jackman wrote: "I under stood that A C Gilbert invented S scale just after the WW2. Looks like the foreigners are trying to steal the credit for another of our inventions." Actually, S scale was invented by a guy named Ed Packard, owner of Cleveland Model Supply in Cleveland, Ohio. In 1937 he began marketing 3/16" scale wood and embossed paper kits. He named the scale "CD" (Cleveland-Designed). A year later he marketed two powered locomotive kits -- a CGW 4-6-0 and a PRR 0-6-0 switcher. These, along with his wood-and-paper Milwaukee Hiawatha train, are in great demand by S scale collectors. Some years later, the National Model Railroad Association (NMRA) recognized the scale and renamed it "S" because of the sibilants in three-sixteenths (scale) and seven-eighths (gauge). Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2667	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Enough already. A man asked a simple question: What is S scale called in Britain. I gave him a simple answer: S scale. Unfortunately I threw in the information gratuitously that the scale was developed in Britain, and a "debate" ensued, beginning with the assinine comment "Looks like the foreigners are trying to steal The credit for another of our inventions." I have research this subject six ways from Sunday as the basis for articles in Canadian Railway Modeller and S/Sn3 Modeling Guide, the content of which has never been challengded by anyone. The known first railway model in S was made by a teen-ager in Scotland. The first operating model was made in England by Charles Wynne. Both Packard and Louis Marx were making railway models in S during the late 1930s, before Gilbert bought American Flyer. The suggestion that the Brits are taking credit for an American idea, namely 1/64 scale railway models, is just as silly as the claim by the Russians that they invented baseball. Enough, already. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2668	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: even more on the SD45

Several readers have noted that my latest e-mail on the SD45 came basically blank. I was trying to send you a page that was sent to me about all the roads that SW was proposing to do. If you want to ask me about a specific road I can tell you and yes it includes the Reading and Erie. I'm sorry but as a classic technopeasant that's the best I can do. someday. I have to confess that I regard the SD45 as too old for my modeling. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2669	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Come on . I have always been told that AC Gilbert was the inventor of S scale. I took it to the light side of a little joke. But I see today most people are so hooked in Policical Correctness that it is sickning. I am not pc hooked and I play and joke every where. I am of english, Irish and american Indian. and I love it. Also my Irish is orange not green. Larry sigma@... wrote: > From: sigma@... > > Enough already. > A man asked a simple question: What is S scale called in Britain. > I gave him a simple answer: S scale. > Unfortunately I threw in the information gratuitously that the scale was > developed in Britain, and a "debate" ensued, beginning with the assinine > comment "Looks like the foreigners are trying to steal The credit for > another of our inventions." > I have research this subject six ways from Sunday as the basis for > articles in Canadian Railway Modeller and S/Sn3 Modeling Guide, the > content of which has never been challengded by anyone. > The known first railway model in S was made by a teen-ager in Scotland. > The first operating model was made in England by Charles Wynne. > Both Packard and Louis Marx were making railway models in S during the > late 1930s, before Gilbert bought American Flyer. > The suggestion that the Brits are taking credit for an American idea, > namely 1/64 scale railway models, is just as silly as the claim by the > Russians that they invented baseball. > Enough, already. > Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Tired of empty chat rooms and out of date bulletin boards? > http://www.ONElist.com > ONElist: Making the Internet Intimate > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2670	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: DOs and DONTs

If you want to unsubscribe, please go to onelist.com and do so, or go to my list page and use one of the butttons, or send me a note. Don't send it to the list. If you think there is a list malfunction, please send the not to me , not the list. If you want to talk about non-train related topics, don't send the note to the S-Trains list. Thanks PS. If you have some material for an S-Trains web page , let me know. With 400 contributers, we could give those mags a run for their money. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2671	From: JSBMLB@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Track

Bob, In response to your question regarding track that has a nice road bed but is compatible with Alco Pa's. I have S-Helper track. The roadbed is integral with the track. The track is code 125 and is good for both scale and AF eqiupment. S-helper makes transition track pins for Gilbert track. The height matches perfect with Gilbert track that is on rubber roadbed and transitions between one and the other are smooth as silk. Like everything else the quality is the best there is in any gauge. I use it for Gilbert, Brass American Models, and S-helper equipment and it works great.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2672	From: Dave Heine	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: AF Steam Locomotive Help

I'm forwarding this from the Digitrax list. Maybe someone can help. Dave Heine ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Mort <revmort@...> To: <digitrax@onelist.com> Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 9:47 PM Subject: [Digitrax] Way Off Subject! > From: "Larry Mort" <revmort@...> > > Hi all, > > Before I begin let me ask your forgiveness and tolerance for this email. I realize it is off subject big time, but I do not know where else to turn. > > I have a member of my parish with a vintage American Flyer Steam Engine. It needs motor work badly. I can find no one in the Pittsburgh area I feel comfortable referring him to. The one hobby shop that used to do the work sends it out, and refused to tell him who does repair work for them. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. And again, I'm sorry for sending this through our Digitrax list, but I remembered someone emailing me in January who was part of an S Guage group. I hope he is reading! > > Thank you very mcuh. > > Larry Mort > Baden, PA > > _______________________________________________________________ > Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription > to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and > select the Member Center link from the menu bar on the left. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2673	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: SW1500 Good news / bad news

Hello all Firstly thankyou very much to all those who responded to my little asking of interest the week before last. Apologies for not responding earlier but I had a training course thrust at me earlier than expected and was away from my PC. To those who replied I will get to all individually an answer as best as I can. As A general continuance on this subject. I would feel that this will be a goer. Some very interesting feed back. The bad news is that whilst i'll endeavour to have it available this century , this century still has 20 months to run...the good news is I would like to have this avaialble in 9-10 months. At this stage I would anticipate both SW1000 and SW1500 to be available.Should both not eventuate together, then the 1500 will precede the 1000. The SP version of the SW1500 to be a separate item. Expected price range ....of the order of approx $225 (US) Proto:64 and #110 to be priced the same. Whilst I would like to make the proverbial 5c cigar ( it ain't gonna happen) The first priority is quality. Authenticty is its cousin, engineering its brother. There will be but one opportunity to bring this type of effort to market ( for me anyway) It will be done correctly ( or not at all!!!!) If it becomes viable to lower the bar then I will, but no sense promising X and delivering at 2X !! I feel that the "ball park" $225 is attainable whilst keeping reality in mind!!. Comments about MP15 are taken on board. These will (subject to an official launch) be marketed under the Name of "Sunny Creek Models" I feel it prudent to answer Kelvins's question of experience in putting together And Marketing a kit??? NONE. ( I have lots of transferable skills (as the world of CV's would have it) but I haven't done this specific task before) I can hear the collective sympathetic sighs of Ron, Don, Bill and company now!! ( this guy is nuts!!!! ans: YES) Slow and sure wins the race!! hope this answers some questions...I'm looking forward to more feedback and comments!! regards :-)) Richard Sunny Creek Models 13 McAlister St Frankston, Victoria AUSTRALIA 3199

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2674	From: jim@xxxxxxxxx.xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: S Scale origins

On Mon, 26 Apr 1999 16:50:41 -0700, you wrote: >Actually, S scale was invented by a guy named Ed Packard, owner of >Cleveland Model Supply in Cleveland, Ohio. In 1937 he began marketing >3/16" scale wood and embossed paper kits. He named the scale "CD" >(Cleveland-Designed). A year later he marketed two powered locomotive >kits -- a CGW 4-6-0 and a PRR 0-6-0 switcher. In fact, 3/16" scale had been around for a long time before that since it was(is) one of the recognised imperial scales in engineering and architectural drawing and modelling. So I dare say it was only a matter of time before someone chose it for railway modelling. The name "S" for the scale came from the US. Jim.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2675	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track

Charles E. Smith wrote: >AF is code 220. NMRA standards do not list a code 220. If AF rail is .220", and it looks like it could be, it is an interpolation to call it "code 220". Fact is, it is not a code rail. >Gargraves is even bigger. Gargraves mates directly to AF rail when AF is in rubber roadbed. Gar is also not a code rail. It does not rest on the ties, but rather, it goes through them and acts as a "rack" for mounting the ties. >American models code 148 is a nice compromise and he makes a complete track >system with switches. >AF runs on rail down to code 125, (125/1000") AF flanges need more than code 100, 125 being the next official size. AM and SHS flanges will ride on code 100 rail, but will not negotiate diamonds and open frog switches without problems. AM only makes one set of turnouts, so lets not hallelujah yet. Don promises us switches, too, and soon? I had another talk with the Ross guys. They promise to get to us this summer . . .again! Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2676	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track

- >The SHS track (Don Thompson) is code 125, which will work with AF, and is >about right for PRR mainline. American Models makes 148. > Thanks for the correction. CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2677	From: Brian Johns	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: K-Line 27" radius AF track?!

Charles Smith wrote: > Also available is K-line which is identical to AF except includes 27" > radius sections." Fascinating! I didn't realize anyone made a tighter radius curve than the original AF track (except maybe for the Pikemaster track). How well does it work? Are there some specific engines that can't negotiate the tighter radius? How about my 4-6-2 283 Pacific -- can it handle it? I just spent the better part of my weekend trying to figure out how to squeeze two levels of track onto my newly built 4x8' train board. I've been using RR-Track software which made the process much easier, but let's face it, there's just not a lot that can be done in 4x8 that doesn't involve a curve! The lack of different radii also made it a bit of a challenge. I'm a bit concerned about the grade being too steep...I'm raising to 5.5" across 6 pcs of curved track. (Can't remember what % RR-Track told me it was...) (If you'd like to see a couple of pictures, they're the top two photos at: http://www.feist.com/~bljohns/am_flyer.html .) -=[ Brian Johns ]=- _______________________________________________________ I don't suffer from insanity....I rather enjoy it! _______________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2678	From: JFR040436@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Ceramic Village

Well folks, it looks like we missed out again. In the spring issue of their "Inside Track" magazine, the big "L" people say that Department 56 will have a "Lional Electric Train Shop" in their "Original Snow Village Collectibles"So, it looks like the three rail folks got there first. The way they are goning, not much chance they would put their Flyer trains in next to that, even though the photo looks to have "HO" trankack next to it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2679	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: K-Line 27" radius AF track?!

In a message dated 4/27/99 1:03:51 AM, bljohns@... writes: << Fascinating! I didn't realize anyone made a tighter radius curve than the original AF track (except maybe for the Pikemaster track). >> Easy does it. Original Flyer S gauge curve track has a 19 inch radius. :) BTW, I have the broader K-Line curves on my tinplate layout and they have worked out well. They are easily integrated into a plan with original Gilbert. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2680	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 212 K-Line AF track

My 1998 K-Line catalog price sheet shows a K-0412 54"radius as the only curve track available for AF. They also list a regular straight section and an extra long straight section. Being a user of the pikemaster system I seriously doubt if anything would run on a tighter radius. Much of the older AF equipment will not run on it either. Pikemaster is roughly a 31" radius curve which corresponds to the radius of O-gauge. Many basic O-gauge sets come with the 27" radius track but there again you are restricted to using the smaller equipment. I use the K-Line 54" radius AF track on my 5 x 9 layout and my streamliners love it. Brad

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2681	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 212 K-Line AF track

The 54" is the DIAMETER of a circle made with the K-line curved track. The radius would be half of that or 27". Regular AF track would make a circle of 38" diameter and a radius of 19". --- bradandtj@... wrote: > From: bradandtj@... > > My 1998 K-Line catalog price sheet shows a > K-0412 54"radius as the > only curve track available for AF. They also > list a regular straight section and an extra > long straight section. Being a user of the > pikemaster system I seriously doubt if anything > would run on a tighter > radius. Much of the older AF equipment will not run > on it either. > Pikemaster is roughly a > 31" radius curve which corresponds to the > radius of O-gauge. Many basic O-gauge > sets come with the 27" radius track but > there again you are restricted to using the smaller > equipment. I use > the K-Line 54" radius AF track on my 5 x 9 layout > and > my streamliners love it. > > Brad > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Are you hogging all the fun? > http://www.ONElist.com > Friends tell friends about ONElist! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2682	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 212 K-Line AF track

In a message dated 4/27/99 11:01:41 AM, bradandtj@... writes: << Many basic O-gauge sets come with the 27" radius track but there again you are restricted to using the smaller equipment. I use the K-Line 54" radius AF track on my 5 x 9 layout and my streamliners love it. >> There appears to be some confusion about radius and diameter. Lionel O-27 is 27 roughly inches in diameter, as per Lionel's terminology (i.e., O-72 is 72 inches in diameter, etc.). The practice with most other gauges is to cite radius. The K-Line track has about a 27 inch outer radius (Ijust measured it again.), which is equivalent to 54 inches in diameter. K-Line uses a tinplate O-gauge spec for their S gauge curve track. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2683	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 212 K-Line AF track

We have to learn to stop interchanging the terms radius and diameter. O31 is 31" DIAMETER K-Line S is 54" DIAMETER, 27" RADIUS. AF pre-Pikemaster is 19 or 20 inch RADIUS depending on how you measure it. Gilbert always described it as 40" DIAMETER over the outer rail. bradandtj@... wrote: > > From: bradandtj@... > > My 1998 K-Line catalog price sheet shows a K-0412 54"radius as the > only curve track available for AF. They also > list a regular straight section and an extra > long straight section. Being a user of the > pikemaster system I seriously doubt if anything would run on a tighter > radius. Much of the older AF equipment will not run on it either. > Pikemaster is roughly a > 31" radius curve which corresponds to the > radius of O-gauge. Many basic O-gauge > sets come with the 27" radius track but > there again you are restricted to using the smaller equipment. I use > the K-Line 54" radius AF track on my 5 x 9 layout and > my streamliners love it. > > Brad > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Are you hogging all the fun? > http://www.ONElist.com > Friends tell friends about ONElist! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2684	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

In message <37249A8C.1D4C80AD@...>, lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> writes >From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > >I under stood that A C Gilbert invented S scale just after the WW2. Looks >like the foreigners are >trying to steal The credit for another of our inventions. >Larry > Come off it Larry CD Models and What was called H1 (Half 1) were developed independantly at the same time - H1 was later retitled S scale. that not withstanding the SSMRS is the oldest Scale MRS in the world! That is unless you are a revisionist and believe Yanks invented Steam Trains <G> -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2685	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/26/1999
Subject: Re: English S

In message <3723BD67.67E1FDBF@...>, Allen Evans <alevans@...> writes >From: Allen Evans <alevans@...> > >What is the British term for our S-Scale? S Scale!! It is recognised that the NASG standards have slightly more tollerance than the British S Scale Model Rail Society standards - The proposed Proto64 standards are very similar to the SSMRS standards such differences that exist are as much differences between British & US prototypes as any standard being more correct. HiRail is unknown here apart from two AF collectors/operators over here (Mick Flye and Neil Trump - good friends). Hope this helps -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2686	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re Observation

Dave Bailey wondered what folks think the spate of product announcements in 1/64. Well one might ask how we are going to afford them all. There's SD45s, SW1500s, F3s, maybe SD60s (from AM), a 2-8-2 from 3rd Rail and a 4-6-0 from Division Point to name but a few. Then there's the new three-bay hoppers from SHS and the new boxcars and coalporters that Ron Sabestien is working on. Kinda reminds me how N scale went from a product or two a year to several new ones every month. Bill Wade is still working on his EBT collection and new building kits. Maybe beside money, we also have to wonder where is the time to do all of this. Nice problem to have. Alex Binkley PatnDave wrote: > It seems to me that over the years past.., announcements of new > (major) products like the SW 1500 and SD45 were traditionally kept in > quite reserve for the "NEW PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT!" at the NASG > Convention. What I'm saying is that traditionally , during this time > of the year, even as far as between JAN to JULY (convention time) it > would seem as though there will be no new S products. Then after the > convention, WAMM, we get hit with a lot of new stuff! Personally, I > like it this way better with the news spread out over the entire year. > It helps keep my interests up! I wonder If this is a sign that S is > growing, and what news might still be in-store at the > convention?!!! What do you think? Dave Bailey, MPSM Advocate > > No one is listening...until you make a mistake >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2687	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 212 K-Line AF track

Beware -- Some of us are confusing "radius" with "diameter." Dick Karnes bradandtj@... wrote: > From: bradandtj@... > > My 1998 K-Line catalog price sheet shows a K-0412 54"radius as the > only curve track available for AF. They also > list a regular straight section and an extra > long straight section. Being a user of the > pikemaster system I seriously doubt if anything would run on a tighter > radius. Much of the older AF equipment will not run on it either. > Pikemaster is roughly a > 31" radius curve which corresponds to the > radius of O-gauge. Many basic O-gauge > sets come with the 27" radius track but > there again you are restricted to using the smaller equipment. I use > the K-Line 54" radius AF track on my 5 x 9 layout and > my streamliners love it. > > Brad > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Are you hogging all the fun? > http://www.ONElist.com > Friends tell friends about ONElist! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2688	From: Bill Banta	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S

> > That is unless you are a revisionist and believe Yanks invented Steam > Trains <G> > - you mean we didn't? Oh no, what will martha say.... ;) bill b....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2689	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Radius and Diameter

Here is one more thought from an old math teacher. In most scale railroading, the radius described is a center line radius. That is the distance from the center to the middle of the track, between the rails. That is supposed to make it easier to figure out where the parts go and how to connect them. If you measure to the outside rail, it is much tougher to match up a track that curves towards it from another center point. Center lines are another of those inventions that make some complex things a bit easier even though they are not obvious at the start. Great ZOT itS, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2690	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Kelvin, Nah, we didn't invent them, we just made them able to run on lousy trackwork! <BG> S' David, PS, give my best to Neil. That is unless you are a revisionist and believe Yanks invented Steam Trains <G> -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2691	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: AF crew names

I want to thank those who answered my call for the official AF names for the various action cars and accessories. I've posted below those that I've collected so far. If anyone knows of any other names or action items, let me know. Mike & Ike 740 handcar Smitty the Walking Brakeman 970 Seaboard box car Moe & Joe 971 lumber car ? 977 caboose Gabe the Lamplighter Sam the Semaphore Man Louie the Loader 779 oil drum loader Billy the Baggage Smasher baggage smasher ? sawmill P.S. Paul, this might make an interesting bit of trivia to add to your web site. -- Jerry Riechert riecherg@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2692	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: no tin plate, no toys, only scale

That's what the brochure I picked up today at the B&O museum says about the Great Scale Model Train Show at Gettysburg, August 7/8, 1999. Z to G, tables, operating layouts, demos. Just off 15N. (410)-730-1036, or www.GSMTS.com. PS I still may sneak in. My son has taken to N-scale. I'll use that as my cover, and look for Flyer goodies anyhow.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2693	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Hello Hudson

Hudson, Ohio that is. We just merged with company there. I will be traveling there soon and possibly several times a year. Do you know of any good train stores in the area (will likely fly into Cleveland)? Do any of you live nearby? Would you mind if a fellow train nut visitor stopped by once in awhile? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2694	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: elevations

I haven't done any yet, but I recall others recommending ramping to 5"-5.5" (depending on what steamer stacks you want to clear) over the distance of 10 to 13 sections of track, othewise you might experience some pulling difficulties.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2695	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S

We were smart enough to sneak the idea out of the country when you could get your head loped off for trying Larry Bill Banta wrote: > From: Bill Banta <billbwks@...> > > > > > That is unless you are a revisionist and believe Yanks invented Steam > > Trains <G> > > - > > you mean we didn't? Oh no, what will martha say.... > > ;) > > bill b.... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms? > http://www.ONElist.com > Sign up for a new e-mail list today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2696	From: JSBMLB@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Track

A note to Bob on my feelings about track. Try out SHS code 125. It looks great and works for scale and origional AF.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2697	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S

The russians have rewriting history 80 years. I thought we yanks could the same. Come on I was just having some fun. But I have seen in print that AC Gilbert did invent S scale. Larry kelvin white wrote: > In message <37249A8C.1D4C80AD@...>, lawrence jackman > <ljack70117@...> writes > >From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > > >I under stood that A C Gilbert invented S scale just after the WW2. Looks > >like the foreigners are > >trying to steal The credit for another of our inventions. > >Larry > > > Come off it Larry > > CD Models and What was called H1 (Half 1) were developed independantly > at the same time - H1 was later retitled S scale. that not withstanding > the SSMRS is the oldest Scale MRS in the world! > > That is unless you are a revisionist and believe Yanks invented Steam > Trains <G> > -- > Kelvin White > Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2698	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: BL2

Bill Clark mentioned his want of a BL2 !!! I seem to reccall a BL2 being made available by OMNICON some years back. Maybe someone with greater history in "S" can help Bill out. :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2699	From: Train Collectors Association	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S

The biggest fallacy: "I saw it in print, therefore it MUST be true." Cheers, Ron Morris At 03:32 PM 4/27/99 -0700, you wrote: >From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > >The russians have rewriting history 80 years. I thought we yanks could the >same. Come on I was just having some fun. But I have seen in print that AC >Gilbert did invent S scale. >Larry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2700	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Re Observation

Also, what's the percentage of product sold (especially kits) that ever actually make it onto a track or a layout? Ed, it's very good to hear from you! > From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux > I've often wondered what the percentage is of products is that actually > make it to the market compared to those that are announced? Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2701	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: even more on the SD45

Yeah, the SD-45s are gone from the Conrail roster, and never were a vitally important part of it. While the D&H technically owned their own SDs for years, they spent most of their lives off home rails, in EL paint. Of course the NYSW currently has SD-45s, and one of these in yellowjacket paint would be almost impossible to resist. Since that's not likely to be offered, my budget might be able to dodge a fairly powerful bullet. > From: Alex Binkley > I have to confess that I regard the SD45 as too old for my modeling. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2702	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Well, it may have been in print that AC invented S, but I've also seen in print that Henry Ford invented the automobile!! Hmm, if it's in print, it must be so??? This whole thread has been most interesting, jokes, etc. aside. It also shows that this group is alive!! I have also been amazed at how many members we have across the pond'. Maybe Paul can put a 'by country' list on his site, just as a statistical curiosity. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2703	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Track

I wish this was true. I like the look of 125. Some AF steamers WILL NOT run on code 125 rail. Not even with flattened HO spikes. I tried it. Roger JSBMLB@... wrote: > > From: JSBMLB@... > > A note to Bob on my feelings about track. Try out SHS code 125. It looks > great and works for scale and origional AF. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms? > http://www.ONElist.com > Sign up for a new e-mail list today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2704	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Hudson Toy Train & Hobby

Hudson Toy Train and Hobby is right on the square in Hudson. It seems as though they had mostly other gauges, but probably a little Flyer, and maybe some of the others. It is a nice shop with pleasant people. (216)-653-2997 Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2705	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Yes most of our friends "acrossed the pond" are good natured and like to joke. Larry David Dewey wrote: > Well, it may have been in print that AC invented S, but I've also seen in > print that Henry Ford invented the automobile!! > Hmm, if it's in print, it must be so??? > This whole thread has been most interesting, jokes, etc. aside. It also > shows that this group is alive!! I have also been amazed at how many members > we have across the pond'. Maybe Paul can put a 'by country' list on his > site, just as a statistical curiosity. > S' > David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2706	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Re Observation

Dear Ed, Yeah, It ain't 100% here either. Have you seen any Amtrak SW-9s or NP heavyweight sets? These are two items we took deposits on and never delivered. Please forgive. I am happy to see that you can still type after bypass surgery. Did you know how to before you became a member of the zipper club? P.S. Get better soon, change you diet, loose weight (not anymore hair), keep you blood pressure low and watch the fat. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2707	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Track

Re: SHS track and AF steamers - We found after we recieved the first sets that some early link coupler AF steam engines tenders bumped on the 4 inside rail grippers (two on each end). At first I could not figure out why the tender rocked as it ran down the track, but as I stopped the steamer and pushed it across the grippers I could feel the tender lift every so slightly. We started to check tender wheel flanges from these engines and found that the brass wheels had flanges of different diameters. Some had no problems at all and others bumped. I assume this was due to the tolerances of the screw machines and as the tools wore, or maybe with different operators, some flanges were of a different height. As we did more reseach ( I thought we had dome enough), we found that some pikemaster diesel flanges were also a larger diameter and that some of "L" diesels used the same flange. We brought this problem to our builder and he contacted their engineering dept. I now have test shots of the new curve track (24" and 29" RADIUS) and these with the 10" straights from modified tooling do not interfere with any AF that we have tried. All future runs will have this new contour on the rail grippers. We want to apologies for anyone that has had problem with our track. To date I have had three complaints and Roger is now the forth. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2708	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Baseball?

Joe: No, actually baseball was an outgrowth of cricket, a British game, developed during periods when the British weren't working on researching S gauge. As for Marx, wasn't he another Britisher that had an influence on Russia? Is there a cricket/baseball connection here? Probably requires more research. Enjoy, Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2709	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 212 K-Line AF track

Hey folks: Are we confusing Radius with Diameter here? Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2710	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Larry: Don't worry. "Invented" & "Perfected" are two different words. Have a good day. Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2711	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: AF crew names

In a message dated 4/27/99 4:49:54 PM, riecherg@... writes: << If anyone knows of any other names or action items, let me know. >> We are left with no names for the Track Gang, No. 594. There aren't any, but maybe 'Groucho, Harpo, Chico, and Gummo' would do. :). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2712	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Really. Larry Bruce Pilcher wrote: > Larry: > Don't worry. "Invented" & "Perfected" are two different words. > Have a good day. > Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2713	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: (no subject)

An extra-rail friend of mine mentioned that he saw someone purchase a C-D Turntable at York for about $50. Does anyone know who purchased this, how much it cost, and more specifics about the turntable itself? One of the bad things about selling parts at York is that I do not get a chance to get around and see what is available. On the flip side, I get to meet a great many S gaugers--and do not get to spend much money (leaving me with more to invest in parts products). Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2714	From: bradandtj@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: Radius and diameter

I confused radius with diameter in my previous posting. I stand corrected many times over! Brad

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2715	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: EP5's and SD45's

Stan Stokrocki sscale@... wrote: Yeah, the SD-45s are gone from the Conrail roster, and never were a vitally important part of it. While the D&H technically owned their own SDs for years, they spent most of their lives off home rails, in EL paint. Of course the NYSW currently has SD-45s, and one of these in yellowjacket paint would be almost impossible to resist. Since that's not likely to be offered, my budget might be able to dodge a fairly powerful bullet. To which Paul Schneider replied: One of the things I'm gonna alike about being a hi-railer is that I can mix road names without guilt or fear (something that looms large in the conscisouness of my HO scale friends: "Good Lord, Charlie, that's a GP18 with a large diameter 36 inch radiator fan, not a Phase II GP9! Are you nuts?") Me, I'd be hard pressed to resist a "Susy-Q" (New York, Susequehanna & Western) SD45. But how about this: The major operator of SD45s in regular service today is Wisconsin Central (and they're painted in a neat maroon, cream and yellow paint scheme to boot). In fact, WC even owns F/FP45s (the SD45's cowl-bodied sister units) and a handful of former Erie Lackawanna SDP45s (SD45s with longer frames than normal to accommodate big 5,000 gallon fuel tanks) My charge card is crying just thinking about it... Me personally, I wish LTI would release an S-gauge FM Train Master H24-66 (someone makes these in O-gauge for the "if I squint I can't see the third rail" crowd). Now THAT I'd like to see, preferably in Milwaukee Road or C&NW colors. Sure, the MILW and C&NW never owned a true Train Master (they owned the slightly smaller "Junior Trainmaster H16-66 model). But hell, MILW never owned an EP5 and I'd buy on of those in a flash. Which reminds me: When AF decided to produce the one-of-a-kind EP5, why do you suppose they only offered it in New Haven paint? I mean, as long as they spent the money on the molds and dies, why not issue it in other electrified railroads of the time such as Great Northern (be still, my beating heart!), Milwaukee Road and Pennsy? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2716	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: EP5's

An interesting thing about AC Gilbert and AF, the EP-5 was only NH the K-5 was only Pennsy, the J-3a was only NYC, the FEF was only UP, etc. The PAs and GP were lots of roadnames, but so were the real ones..........I think that AC Gilberts was also a secret model railroader, if only he hadn't introduced mass marketed RTR HO. Paul D. Schneider wrote: ................... > Which reminds me: When AF decided to produce the > one-of-a-kind EP5, why do you suppose they only > offered it in New Haven paint? I mean, as long as they > spent the money on the molds and dies, why not issue > it in other electrified railroads of the time such as > Great Northern (be still, my beating heart!), > Milwaukee Road and Pennsy? -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2717	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: EP5's and SD45's

No such thing as a junior trainmaster or baby trainmaster. these are modelers names. FM never used the name trainmaster with anything except H-24-66 Larry Paul D. Schneider wrote: > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Stan Stokrocki > sscale@... wrote: > > Yeah, the SD-45s are gone from the Conrail roster, and > never were a > vitally important part of it. While the D&H > technically owned > their > own SDs for years, they spent most of their lives > off home rails, > in EL paint. Of course the NYSW currently has > SD-45s, and one of > these in yellowjacket paint would be almost impossible > to resist. > Since that's not likely to be offered, my budget might > be able to > dodge a fairly powerful bullet. > > To which Paul Schneider replied: > > One of the things I'm gonna alike about being a > hi-railer is that I can mix road names without guilt > or fear (something that looms large in the > conscisouness of my HO scale friends: "Good Lord, > Charlie, that's a GP18 with a large diameter 36 inch > radiator fan, not a Phase II GP9! Are you nuts?") > > Me, I'd be hard pressed to resist a "Susy-Q" (New > York, Susequehanna & Western) SD45. But how about > this: The major operator of SD45s in regular service > today is Wisconsin Central (and they're painted in a > neat maroon, cream and yellow paint scheme to boot). > In fact, WC even owns F/FP45s (the SD45's cowl-bodied > sister units) and a handful of former Erie Lackawanna > SDP45s (SD45s with longer frames than normal to > accommodate big 5,000 gallon fuel tanks) > > My charge card is crying just thinking about it... > > Me personally, I wish LTI would release an S-gauge FM > Train Master H24-66 (someone makes these in O-gauge > for the "if I squint I can't see the third rail" > crowd). Now THAT I'd like to see, preferably in > Milwaukee Road or C&NW colors. Sure, the MILW and C&NW > never owned a true Train Master (they owned the > slightly smaller "Junior Trainmaster H16-66 model). > But hell, MILW never owned an EP5 and I'd buy on of > those in a flash. > > Which reminds me: When AF decided to produce the > one-of-a-kind EP5, why do you suppose they only > offered it in New Haven paint? I mean, as long as they > spent the money on the molds and dies, why not issue > it in other electrified railroads of the time such as > Great Northern (be still, my beating heart!), > Milwaukee Road and Pennsy? > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > G-SHOCK SPORTS WATCH - Built Tough! Built Cool! G-SHOCK keeps you in > Sync! Shock Resistant and Loaded with Features! Electo-luminescent, > Satisfaction Guaranteed*No-Hassle Returns*Only $69 Free Freight in US > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe6 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2718	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Track

I can't speak for all AF steamers, but I have SHS 125 track and run lots of pre-PM locos with no problems, including 332 Northern, 322 Hudson, and several versions of pacifics and Atlantics both metal and plastic wheels. All run likle a champ on SHS track. Bill At 08:21 PM 4/27/99 -0700, you wrote: >From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > >I wish this was true. I like the look of 125. > >Some AF steamers WILL NOT run on code 125 rail. Not even with flattened >HO spikes. >I tried it. > >Roger > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2719	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Where are the NEW fun accessories

Nearly all of the "wish lists" for S that I see here, in The Dispatch, or S-Gaugian are requests for this-or-that locomotive or car in this-or-that roadname. As a hi-rail operator, what I would really love to see are new, up-to-date fun accessories and operating cars! Where are the successors to Sam the Semaphore Man, the walking brakeman, or the bubbling watertower? Going though Paul Nelson's ne book, I was struck by his rrpeated reference to how much attention operating accessories bring to a layout. Any ideas out there? -Roy Roy E. Plotnick Professor Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences University of Illinois at Chicago 845 W. Taylor St. Chicago, IL 60607 plotnick@... phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279 web page: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/plotnick.htm "The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May Alcott

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2720	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: The Consequences of E-Bay

Dear Fellow Trainiacs: Returning from Home Depot the day before yesterday, I passed a little shop on Larkfield Road that used to be known for old toys and baseball cards until the owners retired. They operated what had become a junk shop and it was no shame to let it close unheralded. The store has lain vacant since. But, when I went by on Monday, I spotted a pedal car and other toys in the window. New owners, perhaps? A block away, my train alarm sounded. Beep, beep, beep, American Flyer trains calling, beep, beep, beep. I NEVER ignore my train alarm. I u-turn and park. The window is full of ride-on and floor toy trains. I go in & meet the new owner, Jerry. Looking around, I spot a clockwork American Flyer cast engine with no wheels with a cast tender that doesn't seem to belong. It has wheels, but they too are cast and not flanged for use on track. I ask about trains. "Oh, not too much, just these few American Flyer pieces here". My train alarm is infallible. Now, here is where it gets dicey. In a loose, non-train set box, rested a 312 Pennsy K-5, 1946 vintage in VG condition. The boiler front was missing, which knocks $20 off the price. $130 would have been high for this one. A 300 Atlantic set with 3 common cars and a bunch of track in G condition rounded out the offer. $85-100 would have been my max on this set. $250 for everything would have been, in my mind, overpaying. Jerry wanted $300. When I tried to bargain, he said, "No, 300 is what I have to get. I can sell it on e-bay for more." I turned around, and there, on his desk, was his computer, with an e-bay page up and running. So, now, when you go into a little shop on a side road and try to get a bargain, you can pretty much forget it, because with e-bay and UPS, your bidding competition for some little train set is the entire rest of the world, and they'll pay anything because they don't have little stores to shop in. The party is definitely over. Enjoy, if you can, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2721	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: BL2

As I recall, the BL2 was announced, but never produced. I would love to have two of them! MP (main road of interest) was one of the few roads that had them. Jay Mellon Crescent City S Gaugers New Orleans, LA > ---------- > From: Richard Snook[SMTP:richard.snook@...] > Reply To: richard.snook@... > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 1999 6:17 PM > To: proto64 > Cc: S-Trains > Subject: [S-Trains] BL2 > > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > > Bill Clark mentioned his want of a BL2 !!! I seem to reccall a BL2 > being made available by OMNICON some years back. Maybe someone with > greater history in "S" can help Bill out. :-)) Richard > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2722	From: J. Row	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: The Consequences of E-Bay

Howdy! We recently saw a large sign (of billboard proportions) in the Denver area hearlding words to the effect "Give your junk to us on consignment and we'll sell it on Ebay for you". Take that! Then consider the consequences! When the supply overcomes the demand, prices will come down. Not likely in our lifetime! Jim busy-boy wrote: > > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > > Dear Fellow Trainiacs: > Returning from Home Depot the day before yesterday, I passed a little shop > on Larkfield Road that used to be known for old toys and baseball cards > until the owners retired. They operated what had become a junk shop and it > was no shame to let it close unheralded. The store has lain vacant since. > > But, when I went by on Monday, I spotted a pedal car and other toys in the > window. New owners, perhaps? A block away, my train alarm sounded. Beep, > beep, beep, American Flyer trains calling, beep, beep, beep. I NEVER > ignore my train alarm. I u-turn and park. The window is full of ride-on > and floor toy trains. I go in & meet the new owner, Jerry. Looking around, > I spot a clockwork American Flyer cast engine with no wheels with a cast > tender that doesn't seem to belong. It has wheels, but they too are cast > and not flanged for use on track. I ask about trains. "Oh, not too much, > just these few American Flyer pieces here". My train alarm is infallible. > > Now, here is where it gets dicey. In a loose, non-train set box, rested a > 312 Pennsy K-5, 1946 vintage in VG condition. The boiler front was missing, > which knocks $20 off the price. $130 would have been high for this one. A > 300 Atlantic set with 3 common cars and a bunch of track in G condition > rounded out the offer. $85-100 would have been my max on this set. $250 > for everything would have been, in my mind, overpaying. Jerry wanted $300. > When I tried to bargain, he said, "No, 300 is what I have to get. I can > sell it on e-bay for more." I turned around, and there, on his desk, was > his computer, with an e-bay page up and running. > > So, now, when you go into a little shop on a side road and try to get a > bargain, you can pretty much forget it, because with e-bay and UPS, your > bidding competition for some little train set is the entire rest of the > world, and they'll pay anything because they don't have little stores to > shop in. The party is definitely over. > > Enjoy, if you can, > Chris Zizzo > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Wanting to get back in touch with old friends? > http://www.onelist.com > Get re-acquainted through a ONElist community. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2723	From: Bill Clark	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: BL2

There are a few folks in the Bristol club who would love to have some B&M and BAR BL2s, especially me. I expect there are some folks in the Maryland area that might like some, too. Anyone have any ideas how we might get one built? They don't fit just any railroad, but when they do fit they certainly are out of the ordinary! Bill At 10:09 AM 4/28/99 -0500, you wrote: >From: "Mellon, Jay E." <jmellon@...> > >As I recall, the BL2 was announced, but never produced. I would love to >have two of them! MP (main road of interest) was one of the few roads that >had them. >Jay Mellon >Crescent City S Gaugers >New Orleans, LA >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2724	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 214

Please guys, You're driving me crazy (short drive) with all this return quoting of other peoples writings. Sometimes four or five of you will comment on the same item and return the writers comments. For heavens sake just refer to the Digest number and the person you are correcting, arguing, or kidding with. I don't have that many years left to spend all this time scrolling past stuff I have read twelve times already..... Steve Blackburn....Boise, Idaho RMHR, TCA, NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2725	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Where are the NEW fun accessories

Roy, Very good point. Note the even the L rerun of the Sawmill fetches prices above it's list price already. Gabe the Lamplighter is astronamically priced, Coal loaders?? Cost you the price of a nice train set today! So, what would be easy? Well, most of the tooling for Gabe still exists, and is in use making regular towers. The sawmill tooling is obviously usable. How hard would it be to make a streamline combo car into a mail pick-up car? The guts should fit the body. Repro coal loaders? shouldn't be to hard, it's mostly simple metal stampings. What will it take to get someone interested? Seems like an open opportunity! S' David D. PS These accessories can even be sold to three rail people too--larger potential market!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2726	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: The Consequences of E-Bay

Granted, eBay has effected things, but your experience was not unique to the eBay realm. I have over the years (including pre-eBay) found AF in various stores (best described as running the gauntlet from Junk to Antique) that was always way overpriced. This includes one store here in Oroville where I have non-train items on consignment. They had a 283 set, no boxes, everything in about VG condition, but they wanted $185 for it, I was willing to pay $85. It took three years, but they did sell it for the $185. Not everyone is tied into the computer world, so some bargins can still be found, but they'll be at yard sales, etc. rarely in a store! BTW, I just bought a 'broken' loco off eBay for what I believe is a reasonable amont, considering what the various parts would cost me from a dealer. Some bargins are still there--but very few! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2727	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Accessories

Roy and other brethren, This call for operating accessories was made in the name of 'hi-rail operators' and as such it deserves respect. In addition, as a scale sort of guy, I wish to echo the cry. Nothing adds more fun to a layout than action and lights. There are a few possibilities. Faller makes operating oil pumps for HO and for N scales. These items run quietly and reliably. It is also true that most such pumps are like trees: they really don't have a scale. In the real world, there are similar pumps of many sizes. We can use them as they are, but a little ways back from the table edge to force the perspective or we can add a larger ladder or pump house to fit the 1/64 world. Faller also makes other operating accessories - mines and carnival rides - using the same motor unit. These items would take a bit more work to fit into S and some of the rides are not robust. There is a nice crane in HO that runs on DCC. (I think the manufacturer is Marklin, but, I am not sure.) The operator controls rotation, elevation and the magnet. It is a bit pricey and you do need DCC to run it on your tracks, but, it could be beefed up a bit and hard wired if someone had the desire. Finally, we can encourage some of our entrepreneurial members to come up with new accessories. Perhaps they don't need to cost as much as the excellent MTH things for O and perhaps they do. It all depends on tooling, setup and the perceived market. I remember reading the thread on the efforts to produce scale truck with rotating parts. There was a lot of energy put into typing notes on keyboards for that one. A log loader, crane, milk jug, cow or who knows what loader would add a lot more visual interest than revolving axle ends. So, who else is interested in operating accessories? Can we encourage someone to make a commitment? Great Zot itS, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Roy Plotnick <plotnick@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 10:29 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Where are the NEW fun accessories >From: Roy Plotnick <plotnick@...> > >Nearly all of the "wish lists" for S that I see here, in The Dispatch, or >S-Gaugian are requests for this-or-that >locomotive or car in this-or-that roadname. As a hi-rail operator, what I >would really love to see are new, up-to-date fun >accessories and operating cars! Where are the successors to Sam the >Semaphore Man, the walking brakeman, or the bubbling watertower? Going >though Paul Nelson's ne book, I was struck by his repeated reference to how >much attention operating accessories bring to a layout. Any ideas out >there? -Roy >Roy E. Plotnick >Professor >Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences >University of Illinois at Chicago >845 W. Taylor St. >Chicago, IL 60607 >plotnick@... >phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279 >web page: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/plotnick.htm >"The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial >periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters and ices >with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May Alcott > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2728	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Where are the NEW fun accessories

Good point. A reissue of some of the better and coolest operating cars such as the mail car, and ore cars etc would be great. A few neat accessories built with original Gilbert quality would be nice as well. Items such as a pipe loader/unloader would be great. A reissue of the always loved coal loaders would be welcomed I am sure.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2729	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Turntable

Joseph Haenn wrote: >An extra-rail friend of mine mentioned that he saw >someone purchase a C-D Turntable at York for about >$50. Does anyone know who purchased this, how much it >cost, and more specifics about the turntable itself? Joe: Shame on you, associating with those round-rail people. Don't you know the stuff they're involved in? Didn't you read "The Story of O"? :-] Funny thing about York, after I bought that turntable, I spent time browsing at your parts table with the well marked turntable box projecting from my shopping bag. I must have shown the thing to 20 people, including your friend. You, however, were busy. Oh, well. I found it in the White hall. The box was on the floor, under the table. It is a Wilson's Turntable and it had a brown paper tape sticker with an "S", printed in the same type and blue color as on the box, placed over what appears to be an "HO". The motor is a Wilson's of Cleveland small DC open frame. I recognized this name from a toy or experiment kit I had as a child. There are 2 other manufacturers names on the box: Howard Industries and MSL Industries Inc. / Motor Group. A Fort Lauderdale address is given and it has a Zip Code, which dates this no earlier than the late fifties. MSL seems to be the parent company, since their logo also appears, even above the Wilson's name. Calls to National Telephone Information retrieved no listings for any of these companies. The table itself appears well made. The pit is a single dish of chemically blackened stamped steel with prototypical shaping. The track bridge is one piece of black molded plastic with nice brace and rivet detailing. In addition to its center motor shaft mount, it has four outrigged steel wheels which travel on the outer level bottom of the pit. Brass wipers for track power are mounted underneath the center. Included were motor mounting plates, a drive gear, a rectifier and two DPDT switches. The driven gear and the wiping ring were missing and some work will need to be done to make it operational. The biggest problem is the length. At 15 inches, it will not turn too many steam engines. The previous owner had mounted a 22" piece of Gargraves (included) and must have set it up with a 3.5 inch overhang past the pit. I just don't see a functional turntable having 18.5 feet of unsupported rail on each end, so I will use it for turning smaller engines. It is an 80 foot table, but it still misses the AM USRA Pacific 12 wheel tender by one axle. My guess is that the HO table became the S table by the addition of the rectifier, modified instructions, and a big "S" sticker on the box. The asking price was $60 with a tag marking it down to $50. I gave $30. That's all of it. If anyone knows where to get parts, be sure to let me know. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo busy-boy@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2730	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: BL2

In message <37264584.FD05C17D@...>, Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> writes >From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > >Bill Clark mentioned his want of a BL2 !!! I seem to reccall a BL2 >being made available by OMNICON some years back. Maybe someone with >greater history in "S" can help Bill out. :-)) Richard It was never made! -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2731	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: FS : AM USRA Pacific

In message <438fd60b.245793d5@...>, RRDART@... writes >I believe that the issue is that the gap is widening between 'S' and the >other scales. While HO scale and N scale arfe delivering hyperaccurate models >and S Helper Service is doing the same, as are Pacific Rail Shops and Des >Plaines Hobbies, American Models is working on 1960 standards. > >Perhaps we differ here but the American Models Pacific only matches the >American Flyer quality. Please note that the AF technology is at best 50 >years old. The standards are only going to get tighter. Read Classic Toy >Trains. The models that are Hi-Rail now are equivalent to the best models in >HO in the 60's through mid 70's. > >Had he done a decent job on the Pacific, I bet even every scale modeler would >have bought more than one. I would have. Any body want to buy a new in box 'scale' AM USRA Heavy Pacific @ $325 - I'll bring it across to the NASG Convention - any takers? > >He certainly has the ability to produce good models. Look at the FP-7. Look >at the boxcar. AM produced the boxcar with separate detail parts long before >it was vogue. > >John Craft -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2732	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: The Consequences of E-Bay

David Dewey, keeper of the railroad watch, wrote: >Your experience was not unique to the >eBay realm. I have over the years (including pre-eBay) found AF in various >stores (best described as running the gauntlet from Junk to Antique) that >was always way overpriced. >One store here in Oroville had a 283 set, no boxes, >everything in about VG condition, but they wanted $185 for it, I was willing >to pay $85. It took three years, but they did sell it for the $185. Sure David, there have always been those hard asses in the junk stores who hang on for the last nickle, but in the old days it did cost them 3 years to dump it (or until the right sucker came along.) Now, if it doesn't move in a week, no problem, I'll get double on E-Bay! By the by, I am reminded of the reverse of this situation and a VERY foolish thing I did. About 3 years ago, another antique (junk) store on the same road acquired some Flyer. I saw it when it first came in, but he did not want to sell it to me until he checked prices and "cleaned it up a bit." I told the guy to go ahead and research the price, but leave the cleaning to the purchaser, please. The next time I came in, he had them in a display case with a $300 price tag. A complete freight train set, with boxes. But now they were all shiny because he had rubbed them all down with WD-40. I was ticked off so I left in a huff. Without the freight cars, the mint 314AW and the whistle controller. In the words of Homer Simpson . . . "Doh!" CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2733	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Spring S Spree

Howdy Friends I will be out of the office from 4/29 until 5/3 attending the Spring S Spree in Dayton, Ohio. Since I am too cheap to buy a laptop, I will also be away from the email. Hope to see many of you there! Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2734	From: mark.p.baker@xx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: English S

On 26/4/99 Kelvin White wrote (snipped): HiRail is unknown here apart from two AF collectors/operators over here (Mick Flye and Neil Trump). Make that three Kelvin, you forgot David Pippitt. Mark P. Baker.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2735	From: mark.p.baker@xx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: English S

> On 26/4/99 Larry Jackman wrote: > > > I under stood that A C Gilbert invented S scale just after > the WW2. Looks like the foreigners are trying to steal > The credit for another of our inventions. > > > I always am amused when someone from one of the second world countries > refers to people they describe as "foreigners" (a word, I understand, that > was invented by the British, all the others we stole. The passport was > another British invention. One almost begins to wonder why the British > ever decide to remain on this planet). Surely you are all foreigners > aren't you? :-) Apart from Larry, that is, who has admitted to being one > sixty-fourth Indian (by which I presume he meant native North American, > not from the Asian sub-continent) a true S-scaler! > > > Mark P. Baker. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2736	From: mark.p.baker@xx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: FW: [S-Trains] Re: English S

On 26/4/99 Tom Davis wrote (snipped); The oldest model railroad club... ... is the Model Railway Club, London, UK. Which celebrates its 90th anniversary next year. Check out its web site at: http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org The Club wanted the much more snappy www.mrc.org as a domain name but this was already taken, apparently, by a fascist organisation based in the US. It wouldn't do, I guess, to have little Johnny surfing the web for the evening searching for model trains to look at only to end up memorising the words to "Tomorrow Belongs To Me"! Mark P. Baker.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2737	From: mark.p.baker@xx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: FW: [Sn3] Re: 3/16" "S"cale Railroading magazine

On 29/4/99 Jeff Sankus wrote: Soooo, John you know how to string catenary for S scale do you... I would really would like to hear more, any chance of that article being republished or circulated some how? Anyone else out there interested in overhead I certainly would. I would like to build a model based in Sheffield (Yorkshire, England) where they had a line that went across the Pennines to Manchester that used overhead 1500V DC. Mark P. Baker.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2738	From: Wayne Zebron	Date: 4/27/1999
Subject: dc operation

Hi S-People, its me again, asking all kinds of questions. You bring this on yourself, as you are always so helpful. Please continue! At a local swap meet this past Sunday I talked with a gentleman about out layouts. I mentioned I was considering converting to dc operation by making use of bridge rectifiers on the transformer as well as in each engine. He mentioned that it was his experience that the trains were more sensitive to "dirty tracks." He feels with ac the trains run well even as the track gets dirty, where as with dc the trains run poorly with the same amount of dirt on the track. Can not think of any logical or scientific reason why this should be the case. Anybody have an experience they would like to share with me. Thanks, Wayne

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2739	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: dc operation

I have some experience with AF converted to DC, and often the DC engines run slower than AC because of additional voltage drop thru the rectifier. This makes the DC engines a little more sluggish. I have lately come to think it makes a difference where the bridge rectifier is installed in the motor and the preferred location is across the field, though I haven't verified this experimentally yet. This would primarily affect an engine's top speed and if it stalls at top speed your track is way too dirty. In addition, pure DC won't start an engine under load as well as AC if the DC supply is very well filtered. That's why "pulse power" was invented for DC supplies. It merely lets a less smooth DC output occur so the motor gets DC but gets it in pulses that reflect its AC origins. Motors start better under load with these pulses. Lack of pulses makes an engine more prone to stall at creeping speeds. If you don't filter your DC output thru a very large capacitor this will not be a major factor and you will be delivering a pulsed DC. These two characteristics may singly or in combination make the engine more sensitive to dirty track, but not to a great degree. My experience is that the degree of dirt to cause a noticeable difference between AC and DC would be what you'd call excessive. If you don't let your track get excessively dirty you mey never see the difference. One way I keep mu track clean is to run some engines with sliding pickup shoes. This tends to keep the rails cleaner and I rarely clean track. Wayne Zebron wrote: > > From: Wayne Zebron <zebbie@...> > > Hi S-People, its me again, asking all kinds of questions. You bring this on > yourself, as you are always so helpful. Please continue! > > At a local swap meet this past Sunday I talked with a gentleman about out > layouts. I mentioned I was considering converting to dc operation by making > use of bridge rectifiers on the transformer as well as in each engine. He > mentioned that it was his experience that the trains were more sensitive to > "dirty tracks." He feels with ac the trains run well even as the track > gets dirty, where as with dc the trains run poorly with the same amount of > dirt on the track. Can not think of any logical or scientific reason why > this should be the case. > > Anybody have an experience they would like to share with me. > > Thanks, > Wayne > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Do you know why... > "The Closer" picked ONElist to host their baseball humor community? > http://www.onelist.com > Because of ONElist's reliable service and live customer support! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2740	From: Bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: S Helper SW-9 parts

I am looking for a pair of the clear plastic headlight / numberboard inserts for an S Helper SW-9. Has anyone bought replacement windows and have unneeded headlight parts left over? I checked with Don at S Helper, but they do not have any in stock at this time. Thanks, Bill Frazier ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --- Subj: Re: [S-Trains] S Helper SW-9 handrails, etc. Date: 99-04-28 07:30:40 EDT From: robin@... (Robin Thompson) Reply-to: robin@... To: Bilfrazier@... Dear Bill, The lens iserts were on the clear plastic tool with the windows. Sorry, but we will have them with the second run of SW-9s -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2741	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Accessories

<<How hard would it be to make a streamline combo car into a mail pick-up car? The guts should fit the body. Repro coal loaders? shouldn't be to hard, it's mostly simple metal stampings.>> One of the guys in the Bristol Club has done EXACTLY that with a mailcar mechanism. The main problem that makes it a bit of a challenge is that the streamline combine baggage door is not in an appropriate place for the mailcar mechanism. So he had to do some cutting and alteration..........But it looks great, completed and painted with the New Haven orange stripe! As for simple metal stampings....... try pricing it!!!! I have. It may appear, and be, simple, but they want you to re-mortgage in order to do it for you! And plastic injections are even worse!!!!!! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2742	From: Dave Heine	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: Accessories

Although I now am a die-hard S narrow gauger, I still have my AF accessories and operating cars which I enjoyed in my youth. I have several animation plans for my layout (but not using the AF stuff). One of my projects, that I recently finished, was an Sn3 rotary snowplow, and of course, the blade is powered. I use DCC, so I installed a decoder in it and now I can control the blade speed and direction independent of the loco(s) pushing it. (It also controls the headlight.) In HO,Roco makes a DCC controlled crane. One could do this with an AF crane and some small motors. Those of you who have seen Frank Titman's layout know that he has a working coal tipple, and loads hoppers with fake coal. He said he used real coal on an earlier layout, and it made too much dust! On an earlier layout, he also had a working rotary dumper. Although I never thought of it as animation, I have a working incline on my layout. For those not familiar with these, a cable is used to pull railroad car(s) up and down a steep grade. The most common use was on logging railroads in steep terrain. In my case the grade is greater than 25%. I agree that animation is one area were more progress could be made, especially for the "scale" crowd. Another area that is underused is sound. I have some more plans for that also. Now I just need to do some of the things of which I have plans, like my own working coal tipple. There is more to the layout than trains <g>. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2743	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: FW: [Sn3] Re: 3/16" "S"cale Railroading magazine

I also am erecting catenary, and would like to get in on this... Dick Karnes mark.p.baker@... wrote: > From: mark.p.baker@... > > On 29/4/99 Jeff Sankus wrote: > > Soooo, John you know how to string > catenary for S scale do you... I would > really would like to hear more, any > chance of that article being republished > or circulated some how? Anyone else > out there interested in overhead > > I certainly would. I would like to build a model based in Sheffield > (Yorkshire, England) where they had a line that went across the Pennines to > Manchester that used overhead 1500V DC. > > Mark P. Baker. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that we add over 1,000 new e-mail communities every day? > http://www.ONElist.com > Explore a new hobby, discover a new friend, laugh at a new joke! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2744	From: MILAYMAN@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Smithsonian, May 1999

Bruce Watson has written an article about A. C. Gilbert beginning on page 120

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2745	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: More Consequences of E-Bay

> > "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> wrote > >So, now, when you go into a little shop on a side road and try to get a >bargain, you can pretty much forget it, because with e-bay and UPS, your >bidding competition for some little train set is the entire rest of the >world, and they'll pay anything because they don't have little stores to >shop in. The party is definitely over. > You are exactly right about the bidding competition leading to high prices, but there are other reasons why ebay is a lousy deal for the buyer and doesn't get much business from me anymore. Reason #1 is, ebay's feedback mechanism is totally useless. Ebay would have you believe the system is self-policing, that is, a seller with mis-represented goods will get bad feedback and have to quit selling. But when was the last time you saw a negative feedback? Everybody is afraid to give one, for fear of getting flamed with a negative one in return. I don't know how they can fix this, short of making feedbacks anonymous, which would have its own problems. The other reason is sniping. Several times I have placed a reasonable bid and been high bidder for two or three days, only to lose the item when four bids came in the last 15 minutes. I don't have time to wait for, and watch, the last hour of each auction to make sure I'm not being sniped. My guess is, that is one reason for the high prices on ebay. Buyers are placing "killer" bids when they want an item, to discourage snipers. I think ebay could discourage snipers easily by adding a rule that every auction stays open until its expiration time, or (say) two hours after any bid comes in, whichever is later. This would make it more like a "real" auction, where the auctioneer keeps things open until all of the bidders (except one!) give up.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2746	From: Neil Trump	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Mark Baker wrote:- Make that three Kelvin, you forgot David Pippitt. Rick Lasher makes four, Rick is another Flyer collector/operator at one of the USAF bases on the East coast of England Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2747	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Neil, Yeah, but Rick's a Yank, he doesn't count!!!!<BG> S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2748	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 4/18/1999
Subject: Motor vehicle wheels

Does anyone know of a source for realistic Auto and truck wheels in S scale. I would like to find some wheels to replace the ones on cheap matchbox type toys. Phil Randall P.S Can some one give me the address of Steam Depot. I think this is the company that makes a kit for a GE 44 toner. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2749	From: James Wysopal	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: ebay musings

I have been reading the pros and cons about ebay and I suppose the other internet auction services. I have been cleaning out excess trains and parts from the basement (to my wife's glee). I am surprised at the prices I get for the common pieces and parts. They may seem high but did you price the latest offering of new S rolling stock in the S Gaugian. Most items go for $35 - $50 each. Not like Gilberts $3-5 each 40 to 50 years ago. Whats wrong with paying $180 for a 312 compared to the AM steam engine price. I also sold many of my comic books from when I was a kid. Again I was surprised at the prices, generally not book value but still pretty good for a 10 cent investment 35 years ago. Also, many comics didn't sell for lack of interest. Had to sell rejects in large lots for only a few bucks! As for quality, caveat emptor (let the buyer beware!) rules in any auction, whether train show, estate auction, or internet auction. This goes back to Roman times, nothing new. I enjoy reading most of the listing and have asked help in the past for problems with my collection. That's all for now. Jim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2750	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Steam Depot

Phil, Steam Depots address is 1838 Walnut Street Ashland, PA 17921 Phone numbers are 875-4205 and 644-1758. He did not list his area code in the catalog. And yes, Steam Depot does offer a GE 44 Tonner body, and I believe a drive unit to go with it. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2751	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/28/1999
Subject: Re: S Helper SW-9 parts

I couldn't get the headlight/ numberboard parts as well but you can do a pretty good job using Krystal Klear to fill in those parts. cheers Bilfrazier@... wrote: > From: Bilfrazier@... > > > I am looking for a pair of the clear plastic headlight / numberboard > inserts for an S Helper SW-9. Has anyone bought replacement windows and have > unneeded headlight parts left over? > I checked with Don at S Helper, but they do not have any in stock at this > time. > > Thanks, > Bill Frazier > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > --- > Subj: Re: [S-Trains] S Helper SW-9 handrails, etc. > Date: 99-04-28 07:30:40 EDT > From: robin@... (Robin Thompson) > Reply-to: robin@... > To: Bilfrazier@... > > Dear Bill, > The lens iserts were on the clear plastic tool with the windows. > Sorry, > but we will have them with the second run of SW-9s > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ultimate Swiss Army Knife ** Swiss Champ ** ONLY $44.95 Shipping Incl. > Never Get Stuck Again**Lg. Blade, Sm. Blade, Corkscrew, Scissors, pen > Chisel, Saw, Opener, Scaler. Great for Adventures or Father's Day!!! > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe12 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2752	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: Steam Depot

From Craig O'Connell's website: http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.htmlhttp://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html the data for Steam Depot is: Steam Depot 2038 Center Street, Ashland, PA 17921; phone: (717) 875-4205; fax: (717) 875-2016 Lee Johnson wrote: > > From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) > > Phil, > > Steam Depots address is > > 1838 Walnut Street > Ashland, PA 17921 > > Phone numbers are 875-4205 and 644-1758. He did not list his area code in > the catalog. And yes, Steam Depot does offer a GE 44 Tonner body, and I > believe a drive unit to go with it. > > Lee > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Share the wealth! > http://www.ONElist.com > Tell a friend about ONElist's 130,000 free e-mail communities! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2753	From: CliffGarz@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 216

In a message dated 4/29/99 4:26:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << I think ebay could discourage snipers easily by adding a rule that every auction stays open until its expiration time, or (say) two hours after any bid comes in, whichever is later. This would make it more like a "real" auction, where the auctioneer keeps things open until all of the bidders (except one!) give up. >> I would have to AGREE, my neighbor who doesn't have a computer has been bidding on HO stuff and he does wait to the last possible minute like 30 seconds left and an item that is currently at 30.00 he'll toss out 100.00 bid and 1 dosen't leave time for anyone elsse to bid and 2 if they do it usually isn't high enough to out bid him.....It is nice when you have money to throw away......WHICH I DON'T.... I always check the prices if there is something I like on the auction that I REALLY WANT I look and see what I can buy it from Doug, Martin or Ron for and then compare it to the auction price and 9 out of 10 times these guys have the better prices. I have found that most eBay bidding is by impulse and then the adreniline of not wanting to be outbidded so people bid higher. The I want it and you can't have mentality can really drive up those prices. they should not close an auction until it has not had a bid for at least 15 minutes or longer then if someone bids it keeps it open, that is like they say the real auction work. just my 2 cents Cliff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2754	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: Motor vehicle wheels

Hi Phil: the Steam Depot is at 2038 Centre St., Ashland, Pa. 17921. phone is 875-4205 or 644-1758. The catalog I just got from them says they have a a GE 44 tonner with drive and hanrails, scale for $159. please note that in Ashland, they spell Centre correctly -:) Phil A Randall wrote: > From: Phil A Randall <ttscale@...> > > Does anyone know of a source for realistic Auto and truck wheels in S > scale. I would like to find some wheels to replace the ones on cheap > matchbox type toys. > > Phil Randall > > P.S Can some one give me the address of Steam Depot. I think this is > the company that makes a kit for a GE 44 toner. > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ultimate Swiss Army Knife ** Swiss Champ ** ONLY $44.95 Shipping Incl. > Never Get Stuck Again**Lg. Blade, Sm. Blade, Corkscrew, Scissors, pen > Chisel, Saw, Opener, Scaler. Great for Adventures or Father's Day!!! > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe12 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2755	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 216

That realy helps Doug, Martin or Ron. Is that fair to them????? Larry CliffGarz@... wrote: > From: CliffGarz@... > > In a message dated 4/29/99 4:26:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > S-Trains@onelist.com writes: > > << I think ebay could discourage snipers easily by adding a rule that every > auction stays open > until its expiration time, or (say) two hours after any bid comes in, > whichever is later. > This would make it more like a "real" auction, where the auctioneer keeps > things open > until all of the bidders (except one!) give up. >> > > I would have to AGREE, my neighbor who doesn't have a computer has been > bidding on HO stuff and he does wait to the last possible minute like 30 > seconds left and an item that is currently at 30.00 he'll toss out 100.00 bid > and 1 dosen't leave time for anyone elsse to bid and 2 if they do it usually > isn't high enough to out bid him.....It is nice when you have money to throw > away......WHICH I DON'T.... I always check the prices if there is something I > like on the auction that I REALLY WANT I look and see what I can buy it from > Doug, Martin or Ron for and then compare it to the auction price and 9 out of > 10 times these guys have the better prices. I have found that most eBay > bidding is by impulse and then the adreniline of not wanting to be outbidded > so people bid higher. The I want it and you can't have mentality can really > drive up those prices. they should not close an auction until it has not > had a bid for at least 15 minutes or longer then if someone bids it keeps it > open, that is like they say the real auction work. > > just my 2 cents > > Cliff > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > What does Public Radio's "Ask Dr. Science Show" know that you don't...? > http://www.onelist.com > ...That ONElist hosts the largest free e-mail lists on the Internet today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2756	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: High Prices

James Wysopal wrote: >I have been reading the pros and cons about ebay. I am surprised at the prices I get for the >common pieces and parts. They may seem high but did you price the latest offering of new >S rolling stock in the S Gaugian. Most items go for $35 - $50 each. Not like Gilberts $3-5 >each 40 to 50 years ago. Whats wrong with paying $180 for a 312 compared to the AM >steam engine price. Jim: To take your last question first, the 312 is an old piece of equipment with high mileage, and lots of wear and tear. The AM steamer is new. The price for the new stuff is set by the vendors who need a return against the wholesale price they paid for it. The price for the old stuff is set in the secondary market by the buyers who are willing to part with just so many dollars for an item. When enough sales pile up near that price, it becomes the price. Sellers cruise the shows to find the offering prices so they know what to write on the tag. They eventually must all face the buyers, who will bargain them down. They cannot let themselves sell the piece for less than they paid, and they know what others are selling for, so they come up with a bottom line price. That's a healthy market. On e-bay, and in many auction situations, the buyers bid UP the price. Knowing this, the sellers can set a high reserve, which the buyer is not allowed to see (on e-bay, I have been to other auctions where the reserve is printed in the catalog), and by the time the price reaches the reserve, the buyer has all the money he needs. That's when the bidding war BEGINS. E-Bay is where you want to sell, for sure. On comparisons of rolling stock. Take a common as dirt American Flyer boxcar. I see them all the time at York for $20. A bargain, right? Now, go to Toys R' Us or K-Mart and find a plastic toy with approximately the same construction and detail. In other words, something made of similar plastic material and manufactured in similar tooling. A toy truck, an HO boxcar. I have done this. Prices vary from $5-7 ranging to $10-15, depending on size and manufacturer. Why is the Flyer car double? Collectibility? We established it was common as dirt. What about NEW Flyer cars? $40-50 for a brand new car, virtually identical to that common car, with no improvements in detail or design in 40 years. This is why I am disillusioned with Flyer. I pay LESS for S-Helper, AM, PRS, Downs, American Hi-Rail, Des Plaines, etc. etc. and these are incredibly detailed, highly sophisticated models made from new tooling. At least I can understand why I am paying $50. Production line popouts like Lionel's Flyer are way overpriced. Common old pieces are way overpriced. People are starting to pick up on this. I am seeing common items dropping. At this past York, I saw more that a dozen 300-302 Atlantics in VG to EX under $50. Some VG's were $30. Last year, that wasn't so. Of course, on e-bay there are some up to $100. Do what you want with your money. Justify the prices of guys looking to get you to reach into your wallet. I won't tell you what to do. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2757	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: prices

Guys,as far as I am concerned,anyone who pays $100 for an Atlantic should buy 100 of them. I'll stick with Marty and Doug, plus 3 rail dealers who just want to dump AF because they're not into it.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2758	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: High Prices

In a message dated 4/29/99 9:25:11 AM, busy-boy@... writes: << To take your last question first, the 312 is an old piece of equipment with high mileage, and lots of wear and tear. The AM steamer is new. >> This should be qualified. ~$200 should buy a VERY nice 312 with smoke and choo-choo, low miles, and about as much detail as the new AM Pacific at $450. When one includes the fact that no one is going to reproduce Flyer steam engines, the 312 becomes quite 'a buy' (BTW, I have and enjoy both Pacifics very much, but pure economics favors the 312.). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2759	From: CliffGarz@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Hello ... I don't understand what your trying to say....that I compare prices before I buy .......Like I said I don't have money to throw away and I have to buy where I can for the best price I can. I have price lists from them because I get a lot of traffic through my website requesting parts, repairs and stuff which (and you can ask Doug Peck and Ron Levington) that I refer directly to them. because I am not in the business of buying and selling. I get what I get and thats all. Cliff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2760	From: Bill Porter	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: eBay Hint

Hi Ya'll, Here is an eBay hint. When you see a reserve price auction, send a note to the seller and ask what the reserve is. I have done it a lot as I prepare to enter the bidding wars. Every time I ask, I get the exact figure or a pretty close approximation. One guy said he didn't want to tell me as it would be unfair to other bidders. I wrote back and told him of my experiences and he replied with his reserve. As near as I can tell, the only purpose of the reserve price (as opposed to a higher minimum bid) is to get people to look at the item early in the auction and to develop interest. The eBay listing fees are based on the higher of minimum price or reserve price. On the high prices front, I wonder if we are becoming victims of our own success. As more people recognize the excellence of the compromises inherent in S scale, more people begin collecting and running the trains. More people create more demand and higher prices for stuff in limited supply. A lot of us are - like me - in the 'senior coffee at Burger King' set and we remember the way prices used to be. Those memories are not guaranteed to apply to today's economy. Finally, I can't take the time to travel to all of the shows. Pennsylvania and Ohio are a long way from where I live. At local shows, I see prices much higher than most eBay sales for similar items (except for the occasional hot streaks for Really Great Things). At local hobby shops, the prices are even higher. I cannot always find what I want in the inventory of our colleagues on this list. It therefore seems to me that eBay is a legitimate additional source for S materials. Later, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2761	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Hint

Hello folks, I agree with Bill. I don't know what AF stuff costs in PA and NY. but here in Florida you can expect to pay very high prices. Our local hobby store currently has a 310 loco with a beat up 630 caboose, and 3 other cars, one of which is a pike master type car converted to the older knuckle coupler trucks. This collection is just over $300.00. Any takers, I can email the name of the store. They also have a #180 transformer for $300.00. I have been to two train shows here in Florida. One of them the Greenberg show in January in Tampa, for the most part had prices much higher than EBAY. The only dealer whose stuff was worth looking at is available to all over the Internet, and at least a couple of the other dealers were just rip offs. I paid to drive to Tampa, $3.00 to park, plus admission. I would love to find a place nearby in Florida to go purchase some AF stuff at less than EBAY. If anyone knows where it is, I am in the market for old ALCOs and ALCO parts, especially motor armatures & fields even if they need rewinding. I am off today; it would be nice if I good just drive over and pick these items up. :) Now, if I am to travel to the north to get some of those bargains, I have to add in trip costs and my time. Any savings gets totally blown away by my expenses, and I likely won't find what I am looking for anyway. Worse than that, I have to time my trip perfectly so as to be near the show on the day it happens, usually weekends, that means getting my employer to let me off at the proper time, and since other people are taking vacations perhaps at the same time, this may not be easy. (Usually we are driving on weekends, so to be in OHIO at the S Spree for instance, I would actually have to take more than a week of vacation, so that I can be at Dayton on Saturday, instead of on the road. I certainly would love to go, and to add insult to injury, I will be in the Detroit area the weekend AFTER the S Spree. So I can wonder what bargains you lucky attendees will see there. :) It is interesting note that someone mentioned the 312. I have a 312AC here that I purchased for about $150.00. It is mint, still has the little brown tag that warns not to try and turn the wheels by hand. It is all die cast with incredible quality, original box and wrapper. It is like new and purchased on EBAY in December 1998. Now, I keep looking on the Internet at the American Models locos for $400 plus; I like them. Are they better made than my 312AC? Why does my MINT 312 sell even on EBAY for less than half the price of the American Models unit. And how much would it cost to make and sell a NEW 312 AC today with the same quality. Then again, my 312AC is 50 years old, does that count for anything? If someone could make and sell a 312AC quality engine at a retail price of $150.00, why don't they. Actually, I would rather have a brand new 336! (I think they go for about $400 on EBAY.) It seems to me that either my 312AC is worth a lot more than $150.00 or the American Models steamers are priced way too high. I suspect that everything considered, a 50 year old piece in excellent condition for1/3 the price of a currently produced piece is a bargain. Put that 312AC in a garage sale for $20, and you might not even sell it! Take it to a show or put it on EBAY where it is exposed to more potential buyers, and who knows... (I have been going to garage sales for many many years, ofter several times a month, and I have to say I have yet to see one single piece of AF stuff) Anyway, just my thoughts. Chuck Bill Porter wrote: > Hi Ya'll, Here is an eBay hint. When you see a reserve price auction, > send a note to the seller and ask what the reserve is. I have done it > a lot as I prepare to enter the bidding wars. Every time I ask, I get > the exact figure or a pretty close approximation. One guy said he > didn't want to tell me as it would be unfair to other bidders. I wrote > back and told him of my experiences and he replied with his > reserve. As near as I can tell, the only purpose of the reserve price > (as opposed to a higher minimum bid) is to get people to look at the > item early in the auction and to develop interest. The eBay listing > fees are based on the higher of minimum price or reserve price. On the > high prices front, I wonder if we are becoming victims of our own > success. As more people recognize the excellence of the compromises > inherent in S scale, more people begin collecting and running the > trains. More people create more demand and higher prices for stuff in > limited supply. A lot of us are - like me - in the 'senior coffee at > Burger King' set and we remember the way prices used to be. Those > memories are not guaranteed to apply to today's economy. Finally, I > can't take the time to travel to all of the shows. Pennsylvania and > Ohio are a long way from where I live. At local shows, I see prices > much higher than most eBay sales for similar items (except for the > occasional hot streaks for Really Great Things). At local hobby shops, > the prices are even higher. I cannot always find what I want in the > inventory of our colleagues on this list. It therefore seems to me > that eBay is a legitimate additional source for S > materials. Later,Bill Porter ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2762	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Hint

I bought a brand new chevy for less than $2000 once. but those days are gone. Larry Chuck Harrington wrote: > From: Chuck Harrington <paketpet@...> > > Hello folks, > > I agree with Bill. I don't know what AF stuff costs in PA and NY. but > here in Florida you can expect to pay very high prices. Our local hobby > store currently has a 310 loco with a beat up 630 caboose, and 3 other > cars, one of which is a pike master type car converted to the older > knuckle coupler trucks. This collection is just over $300.00. Any > takers, I can email the name of the store. They also have a #180 > transformer for $300.00. > > I have been to two train shows here in Florida. One of them the > Greenberg show in January in Tampa, for the most part had prices much > higher than EBAY. The only dealer whose stuff was worth looking at is > available to all over the Internet, and at least a couple of the other > dealers were just rip offs. I paid to drive to Tampa, $3.00 to park, > plus admission. > > I would love to find a place nearby in Florida to go purchase some AF > stuff at less than EBAY. If anyone knows where it is, I am in the market > for old ALCOs and ALCO parts, especially motor armatures & fields even > if they need rewinding. I am off today; it would be nice if I good just > drive over and pick these items up. :) > > Now, if I am to travel to the north to get some of those bargains, I > have to add in trip costs and my time. Any savings gets totally blown > away by my expenses, and I likely won't find what I am looking for > anyway. Worse than that, I have to time my trip perfectly so as to be > near the show on the day it happens, usually weekends, that means > getting my employer to let me off at the proper time, and since other > people are taking vacations perhaps at the same time, this may not be > easy. (Usually we are driving on weekends, so to be in OHIO at the S > Spree for instance, I would actually have to take more than a week of > vacation, so that I can be at Dayton on Saturday, instead of on the > road. I certainly would love to go, and to add insult to injury, I will > be in the Detroit area the weekend AFTER the S Spree. So I can wonder > what bargains you lucky attendees will see there. :) > > It is interesting note that someone mentioned the 312. I have a 312AC > here that I purchased for about $150.00. It is mint, still has the > little brown tag that warns not to try and turn the wheels by hand. It > is all die cast with incredible quality, original box and wrapper. It is > like new and purchased on EBAY in December 1998. Now, I keep looking on > the Internet at the American Models locos for $400 plus; I like them. > Are they better made than my 312AC? Why does my MINT 312 sell even on > EBAY for less than half the price of the American Models unit. And how > much would it cost to make and sell a NEW 312 AC today with the same > quality. Then again, my 312AC is 50 years old, does that count for > anything? If someone could make and sell a 312AC quality engine at a > retail price of $150.00, why don't they. Actually, I would rather have a > brand new 336! (I think they go for about $400 on EBAY.) It seems to me > that either my 312AC is worth a lot more than $150.00 or the American > Models steamers are priced way too high. I suspect that everything > considered, a 50 year old piece in excellent condition for1/3 the price > of a currently produced piece is a bargain. Put that 312AC in a garage > sale for $20, and you might not even sell it! Take it to a show or put > it on EBAY where it is exposed to more potential buyers, and who > knows... (I have been going to garage sales for many many years, ofter > several times a month, and I have to say I have yet to see one single > piece of AF stuff) > > Anyway, just my thoughts. > > Chuck > > Bill Porter wrote: > > > Hi Ya'll, Here is an eBay hint. When you see a reserve price auction, > > send a note to the seller and ask what the reserve is. I have done it > > a lot as I prepare to enter the bidding wars. Every time I ask, I get > > the exact figure or a pretty close approximation. One guy said he > > didn't want to tell me as it would be unfair to other bidders. I wrote > > back and told him of my experiences and he replied with his > > reserve. As near as I can tell, the only purpose of the reserve price > > (as opposed to a higher minimum bid) is to get people to look at the > > item early in the auction and to develop interest. The eBay listing > > fees are based on the higher of minimum price or reserve price. On the > > high prices front, I wonder if we are becoming victims of our own > > success. As more people recognize the excellence of the compromises > > inherent in S scale, more people begin collecting and running the > > trains. More people create more demand and higher prices for stuff in > > limited supply. A lot of us are - like me - in the 'senior coffee at > > Burger King' set and we remember the way prices used to be. Those > > memories are not guaranteed to apply to today's economy. Finally, I > > can't take the time to travel to all of the shows. Pennsylvania and > > Ohio are a long way from where I live. At local shows, I see prices > > much higher than most eBay sales for similar items (except for the > > occasional hot streaks for Really Great Things). At local hobby shops, > > the prices are even higher. I cannot always find what I want in the > > inventory of our colleagues on this list. It therefore seems to me > > that eBay is a legitimate additional source for S > > materials. Later,Bill Porter > > ________________________________________________________ > NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? > Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at > http://www.netzero.net/download.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking to expand your world? > http://www.onelist.com > ONElist has over 130,000 e-mail communities from which to chose! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2763	From: jim	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: tires and wheels

The question was asked......... >>>>Does anyone know of a source for realistic Auto and truck wheels in S scale. I would like to find some wheels to replace the ones on cheap matchbox type toys. Available a better train shops that sell HO, are bags of semi truck tires and rims. These work very well as "S" scale tires and wheels for pick up's and cars. You will have to hold them up to the particular vehicle you want to use them on, they won't look right on every car. They are not that expensive either. Jim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2764	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: prices

--- Toyguy5344@... wrote: > From: Toyguy5344@... > > Guys,as far as I am concerned,anyone who pays $100 > for an Atlantic should buy > 100 of them. I'll stick with Marty and Doug, plus 3 > rail dealers who just > want to dump > AF because they're not into it.-john marganski I've got a 3-rail dealer who insults AF every chance he gets. So much so, that I don't tell him I'm a flyer person anymore. (I only go in there for his bulbs, and I did get volume II of the Greenburg AF books there.) Anyway, he was always telling me how L is going to stop making AF because nobody buys it. I resisted the urge to tell him that the reason nobody buys it is because his prices for the Flyer stuff are ridiculous. You would think if he hates it so much, he'd just mark the stuff down and get rid of it, but no, he's got an ordinary LTI AF Seaboard box car for $55 among other "bargains". _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2765	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: prices

Interesting observation Scott makes. I have found that, amongst 3-railers, S people seem to have a reputation for being CHEAP. Now I know that I am cheap, but is that why I like S? I don't think so, I like Rolls Royces too (no I don't own one, but I used to work on them daily), and one cannot be cheap and maintain a Rolls. It could be this notion though, that limits offerings in our scale. Yes, we are a different marketing group than the 'usual' 3-rail crowd, and I believe few 3-rail manufacturers understand that, or us. I know Big L didn't/doesn't! I do know though, that a lot of stuff is now being made in S and apparently is selling, as the same people are making more. Maybe they are working under the old adage, "Well, if we're loosing a buck on everyone, we'll make it up in volume!"? I don't think so! It will take some time, as we develop our own manufacturing base, but S is supportive of various projects, and seems to be growing rapidly, one reason, I think, that prices of old stuff is starting to climb. Now let's see some accessories!!!! Pump up the volume!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2766	From: Dennis Back	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: O.T./or is it? KID'S $2.8M EBAY SPREE

I got this via email and thought the EBAYers would be interested since we've been talking Ebay a lot, recently. Dennis from Miami ******************* From NY Post 4/29/99 http://www.nypost.com/news/6997.htm KID'S $2.8M EBAY SPREE LEAVES A BIDDER TASTE By NEIL GRAVES and ANDY GELLER A 13-year-old computer whiz is in "big trouble" after placing a whopping $2.8 million in bids on the eBay auction site - and snaring a historic bedroom suite and two antique cars he can't pay for. Officials of eBay, the Internet's top auctioneer, say the sales are invalid because Andrew Tyler of Haddonfield, N.J., is a minor. But Aubrey Garrett, who listed the bedroom suite with eBay, says the sale went through and he was charged $5,000 in commission. "Somebody owes me $400,000," fumed Garrett, who is thinking of suing the Internet auctioneer. A chastened Andrew told The Post last night, "I'm not supposed to talk about it because my parents will get mad at me. I'm in big trouble." His parents have stripped him of his Internet access. The tempest on a keyboard began Aug. 4 when Andrew tried to sell his best friend, identified only as Carsten, as a slave, warning that "he's an ugly b---h and he smells" but assuring buyers that "he will work very well." Bidding started at $1. There were no takers. "His slave didn't sell so he became a Diamond Jim buyer for eBay," Garrett said. In the next three weeks, Andrew bid on 13 items - including $1.2 million for a medical center in Jacksonville, Fla., (his father is a doctor), $500,000 for a Van Gogh painting, $120,000 for Issue No. 1 of the Superman comic book and $35,000 for a Viking ship replica. Eight of the bids failed, but five succeeded, including $23,000 for a 1955 Ford convertible, $24,500 for a 1971 Corvette convertible and the 140-year-old bedroom suite, which belonged to John A. MacDonald, Canada's first prime minister. Garrett, who owns Internet Auction House in Kingston, Ontario, became suspicious when he didn't get paid and contacted eBay, based in San Jose, Calif. EBay discovered that Andrew is 13 and as a minor, barred from bidding. The firm labeled him a "deadbeat bidder," and canceled the sales and the contract the boy was using. But Garrett says his sale went through. So he called the Tyler family. Andrew's mother, Ingrid, was flabbergasted. "I said he bought a $400,000 bedroom suite and she said, 'I'm hyperventilating," Garrett said. She also said the family is not "rolling in bucks." Garrett also spoke to Andrew, who told him, "I spend a lot of time alone." "You put a kid alone on the Internet and this is going to happen," the antiques dealer said. EBay spokeswoman Jennifer Chu said Andrew's parents have an account and the boy used their password. But Garrett said he determined the account is listed in Andrew's name. EBay spokesman Kevin Pursglove said that even if that was true, he couldn't confirm it because the information is confidential. "I think I'll have to sue eBay," Garrett said. "That's the only way my clients will release me from liability. I'm going to do what my clients want." Andrew looked very dejected as he trudged up to his house last night, reading a book. Across the street, his 80-year-old neighbor, Mary McMahon, said, "To me, the Internet is the work of the devil. It's more trouble than good." _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2767	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Wheels

Subject: Motor vehicle wheels Does anyone know of a source for realistic Auto and truck wheels in S scale. I would like to find some wheels to replace the ones on cheap Matchbox type toys. Phil Randall ==================================== CD Models is willing to produce vehicle wheels. (see below: part of an e-mail conversation with them.) WE need to tell them what we are willing to buy, so that they don't tool up for the wrong items. I think a generic looking 14-inch wheel/tire would be a good seller. Ted Larson ===================================== From: Cdmodels@... Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Ideas Tires and Rims are included with the semi tires. Hey that's a good idea. Thanks Greg C&D Models Inc. ====================================== ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2768	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert article

In a message dated 4/29/99 4:26:40 AM, you wrote: <<Bruce Watson has written an article about A. C. Gilbert beginning on page 120 >> I don't recall if this has been posted or not, but there's also a nice 3-page Gilbert article ("The Gilbert Legacy--A Doctor Turned Toy Entrepreneur") in the Dec98-Jan99 issue of "The Elks Magazine"....journal that all Elks Club members receive. Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2769	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Paint Stripping

Sorry to beat a dead horse again but can the people who recently gave suggestions for stripping paint repost their hints? I tried going thru the archieves but couldn't find what I was looking for. Thanks for the help. John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2770	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: Wheels

> > Subject: Motor vehicle wheels We also need 15" wheels & tires for the 1950s cars Roger Hinds > CD Models is willing to produce vehicle wheels. > (see below: part of an e-mail conversation with them.) > they don't tool up for the wrong items. I think a > generic looking 14-inch wheel/tire would be a good > seller. > > Ted Larson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2771	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: English S

I, too love the British humor. Where is Benny Hill when we could use him!!!!! lawrence jackman wrote: > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > Yes most of our friends "acrossed the pond" are good natured and like to joke. > Larry > > David Dewey wrote: > > > Well, it may have been in print that AC invented S, but I've also seen in > > print that Henry Ford invented the automobile!! > > Hmm, if it's in print, it must be so??? > > This whole thread has been most interesting, jokes, etc. aside. It also > > shows that this group is alive!! I have also been amazed at how many members > > we have across the pond'. Maybe Paul can put a 'by country' list on his > > site, just as a statistical curiosity. > > S' > > David D. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Show mom you love her. Check out our great Mother's Day Gifts! > 14K Gold and gemstone jewelry, leather and cloth wallets and purses, > gardening, gourmet, kitchen, more! Free Shipping in the US! > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe5 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2772	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: BL2

As far as I know, the BL-2 never made it past the interest-solicitation stage. I would be interested, as Rock Island had 5. Sometime ago there was a breakout of who had how many, if someone wants it, I can dig out an old DSG and note which roads had how many, total in the 60's. kelvin white wrote: > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> > > In message <37264584.FD05C17D@...>, Richard Snook > <richard.snook@...> writes > >From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > > > >Bill Clark mentioned his want of a BL2 !!! I seem to reccall a BL2 > >being made available by OMNICON some years back. Maybe someone with > >greater history in "S" can help Bill out. :-)) Richard > > It was never made! > > -- > Kelvin White > Oxford England > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shop.theglobe.com * One-Stop Shopping * Free Shipping in U.S.! > Live Personal Shopper * Satisfaction Guaranteed * No Hassle Returns! > Accessories, Apparel, Jewelry, Kids, Sporting Goods, Apparel, More!! > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe0 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2773	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Yeah, sure, just like CNN is the gospel-truth 100% of the time. . Train Collectors Association wrote: > From: Train Collectors Association <toytrain@...> > > The biggest fallacy: "I saw it in print, therefore it MUST be true." > > Cheers, > > Ron Morris > > At 03:32 PM 4/27/99 -0700, you wrote: > >From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > > >The russians have rewriting history 80 years. I thought we yanks could the > >same. Come on I was just having some fun. But I have seen in print that AC > >Gilbert did invent S scale. > >Larry > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms? > http://www.ONElist.com > Sign up for a new e-mail list today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2774	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Prices et al.

Greetings, Last August when I was in Maine I visited a train shop that ONCE sold L flyer. The owner ststed that he quit selling it because it was overpriced (to him or the consumer) and had low demand (for him). I also visited a shop in Omaha that dumped everything bigger that HO because it didn't sell for him. I do have to wonder when I can get NEW O gauge Santa Fe items from K-Line or Weaver for 20.00 to 25.00 dollars an item and then the L-Flyer items cost 35.00 to 50.00 on average. Difference in China/USA manufacture, I don't know. As far as Ebay goes, If you pay what you think it's worth and you're happy with tha purchase... Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2775	From: Boul, Lawrence	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Benny Hill aka Ernie - driver of the fastest milkcart in the west .

> Message: 22 > Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 21:15:34 -0500 > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > Subject: Re: English S > >I, too love the British humor. Where is Benny Hill when we could use him!!!!! The late BH I'm afraid. But if you listen carefully you may hear 'Ernie's ghostly goldtops a-rattling in their crate' Lawrence

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2776	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Isn't the left right all the time? Larry Dave and Kathy Engle wrote: > Yeah, sure, just like CNN is the gospel-truth 100% of the time. . > > Train Collectors Association wrote: > > > From: Train Collectors Association <toytrain@...> > > > > The biggest fallacy: "I saw it in print, therefore it MUST be true." > > > > Cheers, > > > > Ron Morris > > > > At 03:32 PM 4/27/99 -0700, you wrote: > > >From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > > > > >The russians have rewriting history 80 years. I thought we yanks could the > > >same. Come on I was just having some fun. But I have seen in print that AC > > >Gilbert did invent S scale. > > >Larry > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms? > > http://www.ONElist.com > > Sign up for a new e-mail list today! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2777	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: enter the eBay fray

Regarding buying and selling on eBay, Bill Porter wrote: As near as I can tell, the only purpose of the reserve price (as opposed to a higher minimum bid) is to get people to look at the item early in the auction and to develop interest. The eBay listing fees are based on the higher of minimum price or reserve price. To which Paul Schneider replied: A few weeks before I got addicted... I mean, interested in S-gauge and American Flyer, I listed a professional Vinton tripod on eBay. I'd paid $2500 for it two years earlier and had seldom used it. An N-scaler friend with tons of eBay experience offered to list the tripod for me. He set the minimum bid at $1200. Why? To discourage "scrounge hounds" and Milwaukee south-sider types from wasting our time with $20 bids. He asked me what I wanted for the tripod. Based on what I could get for it on consignment--plus the hassle of listing it privately, dealing with lookie-loos, etc--I said $2000, a good price. As you can imagine, a $2500 tripod doesn't generate the bids that a 312 Pacific does. The highest bid topped out at $1700. When the auction ended, my friend asked if I wanted to take the $1700 or re-list the tripod. Remember, this was a reserve price auction; I didn't HAVE to accept $1700. I told my friend forget it, let's re-list the tripod a few weeks later. Then the high bidder wrote and asked what the reserve price was. Between us, we agreed to split the difference: $1850. As I mentioned on this list recently, I've had mixed results on eBay. I suggest the folks on this list avoid The Toy Peddler of Champaign, Illinois; he/she failed to mention that the PA/PB locomotives I bought had been lettered "TH&B." What's more, the photographs he/she posted on the eBay site were shot from an elevated point of view, which suggests to me that he/she KNEW the lettering would dissuade bidders. When I contacted him/her, Toy Peddler offered to refund my purchase price. Fine. But what bothers me is that the bid was "rigged." In other words, the bidding would not have gone as high as it did if the bidders (me included) had known the pieces were altered. Sneaky, 'eh? On the other hand, my other purchases were fine. The 312 K5 I bought runs fine and arrived in the condition specified by Mr Howard Galbraith (GALBRAITH@...). Last thought: Today I logged on eBay and saw an AF 620 Southern gon listed. Bids closed in four hours. I thought: I had one of those as a kid, I'll bid on it. I figured it was worth $20, so I bid $21.00. When I got home later tonight I was stunned to discover that the 620 gon was currently $56.00. And the bidding hadn't closed yet! My advice to everyone on the list is simple: Bid what you want to pay. Period. No more, no less. If you bid $21 for a 620 gon, the eBay "elves" will keeping bidding for you until someone places a higher bid (say, $25). At that point, walk away. Buy the gon elsewhere. Keep looking for it. Its easy enough to get addicted to "I gotta have it!" I know, I took that route a few times when I started bidding. Fortunately, I got outbid and DIDN'T end up paying, for example, $350 for a LTI/AF EP5. I hope this helps (and sorry for the long-windedness, folks!) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2778	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/29/1999
Subject: Selling/buying eBay & elsewhere

Hi all, Boy has this been a hot topic! Well, that's good, this forum is to share knowledge & passions--about trains! I've noted that comparisons have been made between "old, worn-out 50-year-old" stuff and "new" stuff. Well, I can't speak for others, but when I sell a locomotive (usually L or Marx, once in a great while an AF, mostly because I want THEM for myself!) it goes with a test sheet showing how it ran on my test track. I try to make certain the loco functions within factory testing parameters, if known. If not known, I compare the results with similar, known locos. I also inspect cars, couplers, trucks too. I have had at least one customer tell me at a train show that "When I buy something from you, I know it will run". That felt good! This is not an ad, I'm not really "in the business" although I have cards & brochures; it's just a way for me to keep the trains running and hopefully generate some "hobby cash" independent of the household funds (although I wouldn't complain if it developed into a full-time profitable business! Yeah, dream on...). But what I am saying is that the "50-year-old stuff" can be in really good operating condition, and can stand up to a comparison with today's products too! And once in a while you do run across a hardly been used loco too. It's not all cast-aways. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2779	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Steam Depot

Phil, To you and everyone else, I appologize for giving out an old address for Steam Depot, and thanks to the people correcting my mistake. I did not realize their address had changed, and none of their catalogs that I had had a date on them. I probably should have looked inside at the items, and maybe I could have seen they were too old. Again, sorry for the confusion. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2780	From: Allen Evans	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: English S

I think English trains a prettier, and more intriguing So why should I not find some in S-Scale ? Allen Evans Covington, Louisiana

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2781	From: busy-boy	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: True Confessions

Dear Fellow Train Mavens: For all I have said against the evil witch, last night I stepped into her boudoir and sampled her charms. Now I have lost my cherry. I successfully bid on two items on E-Bay. A seller was offering an NIB Santa Fe GP-20. The same seller, in a different auction, offered 3 early AM freight cars (including an auto carrier double door boxcar.) At the point I came in on the diesel, the bidding was low. I offered a maximum of $160. By yesterday, I had been outbid at 162.50, so I submitted a maximum of 180. The reserve, however, had still not been met, so I sent the seller a note asking him to give me an idea of where this thing was going so I could stop fooling around and put in a responsive bid or else back away. He wrote back that I was only $5 off the mark. By then the auction had only a couple hours life left, so I waited to see what the bidders would do. When I checked back, a few minutes before closing, there had been no further action, so I upped my bid to 185, which met the reserve, and the auction closed. I have seen these engines for well over $200 at York and other meets, so the price was right. The boxcars had no reserve. My first bid, two days ago, which was only $1 higher than the competition, stayed good to the end, and I bought all 3 for $46. It took a substantial amount of self control to set a new bid once I had been outbid on the Santa Fe. I was torn between jacking it up to $225 or just quitting. There was an adrenaline rush. The pictures don't help either: "There it is, I could have it if only . . ." Well, I tried it. I think I handled it well. If I overpaid, I am sure you will all let me know. I still haven't closed the deal and received the units. When I do, I will report. The seller had 100 glowing recommendations, none were even lukewarm, so I have no fear of losing my money. I would hate for all the trading to happen on e-bay. I sure would miss all those train meets. That's the flip side to the convenience and vastly improved communication the internet has offered us, it keeps us home alone and cuts down on the face to face aspects of business. We'll have to stay vigilant about that. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2782	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Split chassis

The 21085 came with either a single-piece chassis or split chassis (two-piece). What is "split" about it? Does that cause any operational problems? Thanks. My K-line complete repair handbook and Barker's don't provide any info on this, but Greenburg Vol 1 mentions it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2783	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: eBay

I like it, but only as one of fortunately many ways to learn about, buy, and sell toy trains. I've made some very good purchases with eBay, and have been disappointed with a few. Same is true for dealer, web list, and show purchases. Learn about what you want to buy (books, friends, see examples, etc.) and get comfortable what you'd be willing to pay for it. Ask sellers questions. Take responsibility for your decisions. I've purchased sight unseen, knowing there was some risk in that, but also that the prices are sometimes lower too. I asked the sellers questions, and have generally received credible answers, reasonable prices and good merchandise in the end. One example for why caution makes sense, last week an engine was listed and described as "runs well". I asked the seller how it smoked and reverses. His note back said running and reversing were fine, but it does not smoke. For those who have nothing but bad things to say about eBay, I recommend not using it. If it were a restaurant where you thought the food and/or service was lousy, you wouldn't go back, why do any differently with eBay.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2784	From: michael prell	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: English S

Ya mean he didn't?? Another myth shot to @%&&! Where will it end? --- lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> wrote: > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > Isn't the left right all the time? > Larry > > Dave and Kathy Engle wrote: > > > Yeah, sure, just like CNN is the gospel-truth > 100% of the time. . > > > > Train Collectors Association wrote: > > > > > From: Train Collectors Association > <toytrain@...> > > > > > > The biggest fallacy: "I saw it in print, > therefore it MUST be true." > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Ron Morris > > > > > > At 03:32 PM 4/27/99 -0700, you wrote: > > > >From: lawrence jackman > <ljack70117@...> > > > > > > > >The russians have rewriting history 80 years. I > thought we yanks could the > > > >same. Come on I was just having some fun. But I > have seen in print that AC > > > >Gilbert did invent S scale. > > > >Larry > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms? > > > http://www.ONElist.com > > > Sign up for a new e-mail list today! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Check FAQs at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > > List info at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for the perfect gift for a friend? > http://www.onelist.com > Tell them about ONElist's 130,000 free e-mail > communities! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2785	From: michael prell	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: prices

3railers are the last folks to be dissin AF! Ever see a box with wheels trying to immitate a real engine! If you're a Flyer Fan be proud of it!!!! What's this Big L guy got going for him! A company that forgot what quality should be! I'll bet that if old JLC were still around, things would be different. --- Scott Holm <imsscott@...> wrote: > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > --- Toyguy5344@... wrote: > > From: Toyguy5344@... > > > > Guys,as far as I am concerned,anyone who pays $100 > > for an Atlantic should buy > > 100 of them. I'll stick with Marty and Doug, plus > 3 > > rail dealers who just > > want to dump > > AF because they're not into it.-john marganski > > I've got a 3-rail dealer who insults AF every chance > he gets. So much so, that I don't tell him I'm a > flyer > person anymore. (I only go in there for his bulbs, > and > I did get volume II of the Greenburg AF books > there.) > Anyway, he was always telling me how L is going to > stop making AF because nobody buys it. I resisted > the > urge to tell him that the reason nobody buys it is > because his prices for the Flyer stuff are > ridiculous. > You would think if he hates it so much, he'd just > mark > the stuff down and get rid of it, but no, he's got > an > ordinary LTI AF Seaboard box car for $55 among other > "bargains". > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Have you visited the new ONElist home page lately? > http://www.ONElist.com > ONElist: The Leading e-mail list and community > service on the Internet! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2786	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: enter the eBay fray

> --- "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > As I mentioned on this list recently, I've had > mixed > > results on eBay. I suggest the folks on this list > > avoid The Toy Peddler of Champaign, Illinois; > he/she > > failed to mention that the PA/PB locomotives I > > bought > > had been lettered "TH&B." What's more, the > > photographs > > he/she posted on the eBay site were shot from an > > elevated point of view, which suggests to me that > > he/she KNEW the lettering would dissuade bidders. > In defense of The Toy Peddler, the description for the item did say that the decals were changed. It didn't say what they were changed to, so it's understandable that most people would have missed the significance. The lesson to be learned is to read and reread the descriptions, and study the pictures closely, and ask the seller questions, which I know isn't always possible when you just see an item that's going in 10 minutes. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2787	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: True Confessions

Welcome to the DARK SIDE Luke! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2788	From: David Dewey	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: Split chassis

When Gilbert introduced the plastic driver wheels, he also cut the chassis at the axle holes, so the bottom is a separate piece held on by one screw. I know this was done to the Atlantic and pacific chassis, don't know about the Northern or the Switcher chassis. Operating characteristics don't seem to be different, but repair can be! In some ways it's easier to take apart, but I don't believe the split hole is as accurate a bearing, and don't know yet about long-term wearing characteristics. These chassis are easy to spot, the bottom piece is seldom blackened, and there's the big screw in the middle holding it together. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2789	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: Split chassis

There is a split chassis where the drivers are plastic and retained by a block of sintered iron below their axles. I have one on a C&NW 4-6-2 whose number I can't recall. David_Horn@... wrote: > > From: David_Horn@... > > The 21085 came with either a single-piece chassis or split chassis > (two-piece). What is "split" about it? Does that cause any operational > problems? Thanks. My K-line complete repair handbook and Barker's don't > provide any info on this, but Greenburg Vol 1 mentions it. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Has ONElist changed your life? > http://www.ONElist.com > Visit our homepage and share with us your experiences at ONElist of the Week! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2790	From: kelvin white	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: English S

In message <37299E59.2BACC3A6@...>, Allen Evans <alevans@...> writes >From: Allen Evans <alevans@...> > >I think English trains a prettier, and more intriguing > >So why should I not find some in S-Scale ? > > >Allen Evans >Covington, Louisiana Hi Allen There is no RTR British S Scale - there are kits of varying complexity and skill required - if you are the NASG convention talk to me there. regards -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2791	From: Don Abrams	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Ebay/620 Gondolas

Paul D. Schneider & All, The 620 Southern gondola is a very hard to find item. I believe it was only in one set in '52 or '53 and listed for separate sale also. They are every bit as difficult as finding 622's or 613's. In 15 plus years of collecting I only acquired two and recently sold both at local shows. One fetched $100 -- LN/boxed; and the other $75 -- LN, no box. Glad I didn't list them on Ebay, $56 is a bargain, even by Greenberg's 'bible'. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2792	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: pies are round

Radius and diameter .... confused radius with diameter in previous posting. ..... Well, that's all right. Pie R round too !!!! wait .... in my area; pie are square also. Radius Communication is a cable advertising firm . Can we have DNA double-helix for 2 train rise and fall of the Gilbert empire? and what about battery powered motive power? Would that be more prototypical? all-right I know that have Live Steam clubs, but I wanted to vent a little myself. >>>>> May Friendship and Knowledge Be Yours - Curt Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2793	From: Curtis Johnson	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: new repros of old favorites

I recently saw a price list from Triple S supply here in Philadelphia area. It hinted at REPRO gabes for about $450 from 'Gilbert Reproductions' I wondered if this is a company or what? Anyone hear of ' Gilbert Reproductions ' ?? MF&KBY - Curt Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2794	From: Scott Holm	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 214

For those of us who prefer to not use the digest, this is the only way to make sense of what's posted. (And a digest number would be meaningless too.) In fact, I was going to ask the opposite, because some people post responses and don't identify what they are responding to or who they're responding to. > > --- Boss31@... wrote: > > From: Boss31@... > > > > Please guys, You're driving me crazy (short drive) > > with all this return > > quoting of other peoples writings. Sometimes four > or > > five of you will comment > > on the same item and return the writers comments. > > For heavens sake just refer > > to the Digest number and the person you are > > correcting, arguing, or kidding > > with. I don't have that many years left to spend > all > > this time scrolling past > > stuff I have read twelve times already..... > > Steve Blackburn....Boise, Idaho RMHR, TCA, NASG > > > > > -- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2795	From: david s garber	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: repro gabe

can any body in the Malvern area see Tom about this.The parts are out there but the labor factor is the question.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2796	From: Richard Snook	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: shared space pix

Hi de Hi Hope those at the S Spree are having fun (me a tad green with envy) Just had a look at some pix that the Sn3 crowd have on their OneList site in the Shared Files area...anyone regitered on onelist can have a peek. Some of the modelling is fantastic, really makes you want to get back to the layout or workbench!!! Seems a waste not to use the S-Trains space for all to share!!! :-)) Richard (sorry Paul hope not over-stepping mark!!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2797	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: auction in PA

Would anyone tell me where and when the train auctions are in the Pottstown area of PA? Phone # of the auctioneer? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2798	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 4/30/1999
Subject: 770 baggage loader

hello everyone, i bought a 770 baggage loader about a year ago and finally found a place on my layout for it. i hooked it up last night and it seems to work fine except the metal boxes only go about half way down the chute. the figure does move the entire distance of the slot and the gate does drop completely down. if i remember my TM videos correctly the ones on there zing right into the box car. I am using repro metal boxes. could that be the problem? do i need to clean the slide more or use graphite on it? could it use, as tim taylor would say, "more power"? or does anyone have any other suggestions. i'll be running with the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers at a show in Harrisonburg Virginia this weekend so i won't see your reponses until Sunday night or monday morning. if anyone happens to be driving through Harrisonburg Sunday, stop by and say hi. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2799	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: What's E-bay?????????

;<) Just kidding! ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2800	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: Re: 770 baggage loader

I have a baggage loader that behaved the same way. I also have a log loader that didn't like to lift logs. In both cases the problems were somewhat intermittent and I assume sensitive to the current the solenoids take. Turned out the accessories were far from the transformer and sensitive to connections. Also make sure the old flyer buttons have clean contacts. Now I use twist on wire nuts and have good results. Another option is to find an old Lionel transformer with 18V output and this will increase the "snappiness" of the action significantly without apparent harm to the solenoid. The extra couple volts is probably less damaging than repeated or prolonged attempts to operate it. Hope this works for you. "Alice S. Beachy" wrote: > > From: "Alice S. Beachy" <abeachy@...> > > hello everyone, > > i bought a 770 baggage loader about a year ago and finally found a place > on my layout for it. i hooked it up last night and it seems to work > fine except the metal boxes only go about half way down the chute. the > figure does move the entire distance of the slot and the gate does drop > completely down. if i remember my TM videos correctly the ones on there > zing right into the box car. I am using repro metal boxes. could that > be the problem? do i need to clean the slide more or use graphite on > it? could it use, as tim taylor would say, "more power"? or does > anyone have any other suggestions. > > i'll be running with the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers at a show in > Harrisonburg Virginia this weekend so i won't see your reponses until > Sunday night or monday morning. if anyone happens to be driving through > Harrisonburg Sunday, stop by and say hi. > > Wayne Beachy > Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for the perfect gift for a friend? > http://www.onelist.com > Tell them about ONElist's 130,000 free e-mail communities! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2801	From: Train Collectors Association	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: Re: auction in PA

<html> Ted Maurer Auctioneer 610-323-1573<br> URL <a href="http://www.maurerail.com/" eudora="autourl"><http://www.maurerail.com></a><br> <br> Cheers,<br> <br> Ron Morris<br> Toy Train Reference Library<br> train Collectors Association<br> Strasburg PA USA<br> <br> At 07:06 AM 5/1/99 -0400, you wrote:<br> >From: "Marc & Rebecca� McCarron" <mrmccarron@...><br> ><br> >Would anyone tell me where and when the train auctions are in the Pottstown<br> >area of PA? Phone # of the auctioneer? Thanks.<br> ><br> ><br> >------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> >Ultimate Swiss Army Knife ** Swiss Champ ** ONLY $44.95 Shipping Incl.<br> >Never Get Stuck Again**Lg. Blade, Sm. Blade, Corkscrew, Scissors, pen<br> >Chisel, Saw, Opener, Scaler. Great for Adventures or Father's Day!!!<br> >����������� <a href="http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe12" eudora="autourl">http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe12</a><br> >------------------------------------------------------------------------<br> >Check FAQs at <a href="http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm" eudora="autourl">http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm</a><br> >List info at <a href="http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm" eudora="autourl">http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm</a><br> > <BR> </html>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2802	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: Re: auction in PA

Interesting site. After perusing a few auctions, it appears this guy is a dyed-in-the-wool O gauger. Most of the AF items are combined in lots with other stuff, like 0-27 track, or Marx accessories. You may find some bargins at the May 8th show! Nobody wants that junky S stuff! S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2803	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: 770 loader

Boxes often don't make it all the way down the 770 ramp. It helps to tilt the far side of the accessory up a little by shimming the base with a piece of cardboard on that side. Then the boxes will slide down the ramp better. Make sure that you don't tilt it so far that the gate snags passing rolling stock. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2804	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: Wheels

Message: 14 Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 11:02:08 -0700 From: jim <webmaster@...> Subject: tires and wheels The question was asked......... >>>>Does anyone know of a source for realistic Auto and truck wheels in S scale. I would like to find some wheels to replace the ones on cheap matchbox type toys. Available a better train shops that sell HO, are bags of semi truck tires and rims. These work very well as "S" scale tires and wheels for pick up's and cars. You will have to hold them up to the particular vehicle you want to use them on, they won't look right on every car. They are not that expensive either. Jim _______________________________________________________________________________ Steam Depot used to have a variety of cast metal vehicle wheels. Ted Larson _______________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2805	From: Gerbasi	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: special issue cars

I guess I must be the only one who thinks so, but I am really disappointed by the special issue cars this year. For the NASG convention, the PS-2 hoppers seem pretty ordinary, and, unless one models the Midwest, not too likely to appeal; to anyone out of the area, and the SOO LINE "Potato Refer" likewise is likely to be too regional to have wide appeal. For the NASG AF car, the GN caboose is a Lionel car on AF trucks, is pretty expensive in comparison to a SHS Caboose, and, I, for one, don't have a GN loco to run it with (besides, I model the Northeast, where you never see a GN Caboose) For the NASG car, the UP car is way too modern for the era I model. The TTOS car is a AF SP tanker, and again is priced very high, and, again, SP tank cars never made it to the Northeast. The NMRA car is a Canandagua Southern Cylindrical Hopper, a nice car but way too modern for the era I model (I would have bought a 50's era car in the same road name) The St. Louis Spree car is another AF 3 bay hopper with that goofy central loading cover that is so weird, and, at $19 more than an SHS hopper, is a little rich for my blood. I don't wish to seem negative, but this is the first year I haven't wanted to run out and buy every special car I was offered. I can see why one would want to model a car with regional roots for an event, but I am surprised by how little I am tempted this year. I suspect I am being "spoiled" by the bounty of good cars there are out there, because I am buying as many cars as I usually buy, but they are all from Crown Models, SHS and PRS. Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2806	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: Endless Reposts

Scott Holm wrote: >Some people post responses and don't identify what they are >responding to or who they're responding to. In response to Steve Blackburn, who wrote: >Please guys, You're driving me crazy with all this return >quoting of other peoples writings. Yes Scott, context is important. That is why I like to include a judicious quote from the previous post to set the stage for my reply. Lazily allowing the entire, and often lengthy, original post (and sometimes it is a reply to yet another post which also gets included) to simply piggyback along, is akin to the "kill everybody and let God sort 'em out later" philosophy. We've all seen the previous post. Seven guys replying to it while including a verbatim copy simply jams everyone's mailbox with redundant junk. It doesn't make the digest too lean and mean either. Taking the trouble to do the above is a form of Netiquette, and we all owe that much to each other. Cordially, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2807	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: Auction in PA

Hi All, Well, I've been told by e-mail that the auctioneer in Penns., Ted Maurer, is well-known in his parts for putting on an honest auction. So maybe my quick perusal of the past few auctions wasn't enough to form an opinion. On the other hand, I did close with a suggestion that a bargin might be found there, so I wasn't completely negative! Just got out-bid on ebay on some junk lot cars by 12 seconds! Someone can sure type fast! Oh well, I just wanted the trucks under them anyway. Speaking of trucks, I'm looking for some really junk streamline passenger cars as I need two regular chassis and one observation chassis. Would like KC versions, but won't be pickey, heck, even the couplers can be bad, etc. etc. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2808	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: 770 half way

Having adequate power (wattage) helps. I bench test with a 1 1/2B (50 or 75W variety) to optimize, but then use a 12B (250W) on the layout. That usually makes a big difference in terms of the robustness with which solenoids work. For example, my 751A lifts logs OK with the 11/2 B, but with 12B pops 'em right up into the carrier, no questions. Other accessories do better with regulated voltage, so I find what voltage they work best with and use the throttle control(s) of accessory-dedicated transformers to feed them the right amount (e.g. Lionel 182 crane likes 14 volts, but Lionel 362 only about 12 volts or the barrels "come alive").

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2809	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 5/1/1999
Subject: TCA Convention 2000

I attended a combined TCA meet in Chattanooga today, and was very excited to learn that the year 2000 TCA Convention will be held in Chattanooga!!! The formal announcement was announced during our business meeting. I had the privilege of meeting Danny Martin, TCA President, and talking with him for quite some time. A thrill for me, although in my "middle" years, I have been a TCA member for just one year. Danny explained that Florida Division's new officers called HQ and kindly requested that they be relieved of the obligation of holding the convention next year. So about three weeks ago, the executive officers began talking to Dixie, Cotton and (?) (sorry, I am writing this late at night and I do not have my TCA info near) Divisions about a combined effort to take over the convention at this late date. I live about an hour and 15 minutes from Chattanooga in north metro Atlanta. Division president Bob Keller (I met him today, too) lives 15 minutes away from me, and after expressing my enthusiasm over participating in the event, I have a feeling I will be hearing from Bob very soon. (You know, new blood in the volunteer ranks and all.) Have any of you worked in a national Convention? What did you enjoy the most? What committees did you volunteer for? It appears that there will be many doors opening for the TCAers here who are willing to work. Regards, Steve Pendleton bestofbreed@... P.S. Made some great Gilbert purchases today, as well!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2810	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: National TCA; Gabe Repros

The third division of TCA besides Dixie and Cotton Belt that will be sharing responsibility for hosting the TCA National Convention in Chattanooga in 2000 is the Southeast Division. The three divisions originally bid on the 2003 (or was it 2002) National Convention, but offered to take over when Florida decided it could not get the job done. I was fortunate to meet the Cotton Belt (or is it Dixie) president--Tom Jaworski of Montgomery, Alabama--at York last month. In fact, Wayne Beachy even roomed with him for a couple of nights. I am not sure if the repro Gabes are yet a fact. As I understand it, the guy who is doing them has been unable to get the drum done for them--which is a very important piece. Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2811	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: TCA 2001 in Chattanooga

I am mistaken, the 2001 TCA Convention will be held in Chattanooga. The 2000 Convention is in Grand Rapids, MI. Thanks, Ron Morris.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2812	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: References to digest numbers

Boss31@... wrote: > For heavens sake just refer > to the Digest number and the person you are correcting, arguing, or kidding > with. Hi Steve, A better suggestion is to snip the sentence that you're commenting on down to a short quote like I did above. The bandwidth taken with an e-mail snip is a lot less than several folks accessing with HTTP to download a whole digest. Just trying to make these lists a useful tool to everyone. After all, my hobby is model railroading, not e-mail reading. In case you're not aware of the dynamics of these lists, there are a lot of us that don't get the digest version so it helps to have the referenced text to refer to. I don't have enough time to go to the Onelist archive site and look up the referenced digest number. If I did look up a referenced digest, scrolled though it to find the referenced message, and found the comment irrelevant to me I'd really be flustered (more than I normally am when wading through all of the e-mail I normally get). -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2813	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: NASG car

In a message dated 5/2/99 4:53:24 AM, you wrote: <<For the NASG AF car, the GN caboose is a Lionel car on AF trucks, is pretty expensive in comparison to a SHS Caboose, and, I, for one, don't have a GN loco to run it with (besides, I model the Northeast, where you never see a GN Caboose) >> It is NOT an O-27 car on AF trucks. It is the new 3-window caboose which Lionel tooled for S two years ago......actually the first "new" S-gauge tooling Lnl has done, uless you want to count the diners. As for cost, I guess I have to agree with you, but it is not NASG's fault......the organization is "profiting" less on this car, after all costs are met (car, advertising, shipping) than on any previous AF car we've done in the past 12 years! Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2814	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: A WEEK OF POSTINGS

Well business (that's work and in my case architecture) is so brisk that I only had Sunday afternoon to check this weeks Digest. 25 per day and mostly E-BAY. Gentlemen you are proliffic writers. Good to hear there are 4 or 5 S Scalers in the U.K.. I sure miss working on my layout but the dust gives it a realistic look. Well this has been a couple of well spent hours. Keep writing. We must have a 1000 members on the digest by now. So many new names and old friends. Staying on NASG track, Glenn (nominee for NASG secretary)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2815	From: Boul, Lawrence	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: Split Chassis

To avoid potential misunderstanding: It is clear that Split chassis has a meaning to AF afficianados. Note though that to the rest of the model RR world split chassis (or split frame, or split axle) refers to a current collection system where the frames and the wheels on an axle are electrically isolated from one another. The advantage of this is that wipers are not needed and running is usually improved. More recent N gauge mechs use the principle and it is popular in scratch building in the UK. I have used it in my own scartchbuilt Sn3.5 loco with great success. Lawrence

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2816	From: Don Abrams	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Repro Gabe Kit?

If the parts are out there, how about a kit? How about a decorated & undecorated version? Either way I'm definitely interested. Now a repro 752A Seaboard Coaler would put a huge dent in my want list! Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2817	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: Spree

I have just returned from another great Spree. If you have never been to one, you can make next years in Cleveland. We had a great show and saw many of our old and new friends. We participated in this years Manuf. meeting and announced 6 new roadnames for the SW-9 (C&O, CB&Q [Chinese Red/gray], NP, D&RGW and UP ["Dependable Transportaion slogan"]. We expect these in October. We also invited everyone to see the samples of the next two radius [24" & 29"] of our curved 30� track on our 20' x 9" display layout. We also had production samples of the new three and two bay PS-2 covered hoppers. These are now in production and due in June. I found many interesting items at this years extravaganza. We saw Walt and Dave promoting the NASG Convention this year in St. Paul, MN. If you have not signed up yet, it is still not too late. We delivered the production samples of the M&StL three and two bay PS-2 covered hopper. Sporting the large billboard M&StL logo with the white band background and name in black on a grey car, this is the first set of PS-2 covered hoppers ever to be offered. The three bay was used in the grain service as the 2 bay hauled cement. They can be ordered from the NASG convention committee. http://trainweb.com/nasg1999/cars.html We also displayed the two bay Jack Frost car for RSSVP models and the CB&Q black three bay hopper for Mountain Empire S Scale Assoc. These are all due in June. We had the fortune of our old friends Dan and Jim of River Raisin set up next to us and at the end of the show we tried the C&O 2-6-6-6 Allegheny on our new S-Trax System 29" radius track samples that we had received the week before. I think that everyone was surprised to see it make it around such a tight radius. but, I think shock better described the reaction when it almost negotiated the 24" radius. Only the lead tender truck raised one wheel as this monster tried to squeeze through. Although it did not derail, I think with a little work, it could be made to take this one too! I was surprised by the number of people specializing in S vehicles. The last few Sprees, Terry and Marcia Harrison were the only ones I remember, but this year I saw at least three (and maybe four) who had many of the new hard to find Racing Champion and Johnny Lighting cars, pick-up trucks, policecars, etc. I ended up buying more vehicles than trains. Ron of Amreican Models announced his next steam project, a PRR streamline K-4. He also had a HO mock-up of a wood caboose. http://www.americanmodels.com There was a lot of talk about the Southwind SD-45. Jetties also had a train of short painted and lettered SP Harriman cars as well as the 4-4-0 steamers. I guess the big surprise for me was seeing the new code 100 #6 switches on laser cut tie strips from Banta Model Works. This really impressed me and may change a lot of things for those into layouts that support the RP-25 code 110 wheelsets. Bill said that #8 would be in the works and that he could also make different angle crossings if the demand warranted. I wish these had been avaialble when I had built my layout (I was so impressed I got one to show our club at the next meeting) http://www.divisionpoint.com Mike and I had dinner with Ron and Susan of DesPlaines( http://www.desplaineshobbies.com ) and with Bill McClung of W.A. Drake and Bob Sherwood of Western Car Shops. Bill had his colorful painted and lettered two and three dome 6,000 and 8,000 ga. tank cars while Bob displayed his Rio Grande 40'boxcars> He as also taking orders for the CNW "slogan series" of 40' boxcars. Billy Wade had samples of the East Broad Top 3 bay open top hopper as well as his Orbisonia station http://www.btsrr.com I also had a chance to meet J.A. Botten of "The Cryer Gray Foundry" and see some of his wonderful brass engraved throught plate girder bridges. Very Nice! There were lots of other S Supplies, but I just cannot recall that at this moment. Maybe someone else can fill us all in on what they observed. The Dayton club deserves a big hand for a great show. I know they are real tired right now and are kinda numb, but I hope they host this great spring "S" extravaganza again. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2818	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: Split Chassis

To make the issue even more confusing, the AF "split" chassis are also usually "hot". That is to say that they are electrically part of the motor & smoke unit circuit. I'm glad Lawrence brought up the *other* use of the "split" term, as it can be most confusing to others. The AF split is horizontal, as opposed to the vertical electrical split. Earlier AF chassis were normally electrically isolated. The "hot" chassis developed with the square brush commutator and the two-position reverse unit. One problem, is that the die cast trailing truck can sometimes contact the "wrong" rail and cause a momentary short circuit, especially when backing through a switch. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2819	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: my adventure on ebay

Greetings, This isn't necessarily S related but I thought the experience was interesting. I was surfing Ebay for Santa Fe and Rock Island items in S and demon O and came across a L Santa Fe Autocarrier. Since I didnt have one it was a case of "what the hell" I make a bid of about 32.00 and walked away. The bid held up for six days then this other fellow outbids me up by a dollar or two so I also up the ante a bit before I go to bed on Friday 4-30. The next morning (saturday, 5-1) I see the second fellow fellow had outbid me again so decide not to decide and go out of town to a couple train shops to decide if I want the car. I log onto Ebay Saturday afternoon to monitor the tail of the auction and a third fellow jumps in with 15 minutes left and outbids the two of us (we're not talking gigantic bid either) and then the second fellow jumping back in to make the winning bid at the buzzer. I did have the opportunity to come in with a winning bid but as much as I would have liked the car, I didn't need it. Well actually, I am cheap:) The car eventually sold for 36.XX and I think that I will take the money that I did not spend there and call up American Models or S-Helper and pick up a couple of Santa Fe boxcars and maybe a flat car too. I may buy S-Helper's track with the built in roadbed too. Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2820	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Bells

Can anybody comment if any of these parts are correct for pre-'66 diesels? Which parts? Which diesels? Ted Larson ======================= Dan Crews wrote: > Alex, > > Just add $3.20 to the order for shipping. This is the current list and > pricing, it is sad these parts are just sitting. I would like to see S > Scale move along and I would like to expand with more parts but we need a > response from the S Scale community.. Will see. > > You can pay by Visa/MaserCard, Check or Money Order. > > "S Scale Listing" NEW > S-100 Plow, Large w/Grab Irons UP,SP Style 1ea $6.00 > S-101 Plow, All Roads w/Grab Irons $6.00 1 > S-102 Cab Sunshades 4ea $4.50 > S-103 Dual Sealed Beam w/Lens Sheilds 3ea $3.00 > S-104 Nose Light Bracket w/Blank cover plates 2ea $3.00 > S-105 Nose Light Bracket w/Dual Sealed Beam 2ea $3.50 > S-106 SP Rear Light Cluster Bracket w/Dual Sealed Beam 2ea $4.00 > S-107 Cab/Nose Dual Oscillator SP,WP,KCS Etc. $4.00 > S-108 Bell Frame Mount 2ea $3.50 > S-109 Bell Body/Cab Mount 2ea $3.50 > S-110 Ditch Light, Pilot mount housing only 4ea $2.50 > > Thanks, > > Dan Crews > Sunrise > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2821	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Sunrise Enterprise Bells

Both bells are good for EMD units from the GP7 and F7 and later. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle mhrreast@... wrote: > > From: mhrreast@... > > Can anybody comment if any of these parts are correct for > pre-'66 diesels? Which parts? Which diesels? > Ted Larson > ======================= > > > S-108 Bell Frame Mount 2ea $3.50 > > S-109 Bell Body/Cab Mount 2ea $3.50

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2822	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Painting help

Okay guys I used the brake oil to strip the paint off a tanker. Worked great but what is the secret to cleaning it up? Used dish soap and rinsed well and let dry. Also, how does one remove the window inserts on passenger cars so they can be stripped for painting. Again, thanks in advance for saring your secrets. John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2823	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: S in the winners circle

Both Paul Raham and myself walked away from the annual convention of the Niagara Frontier Region of the NMRA with ribbons including first place showings for the S scale models we had on display. More details when I get to talk to Paul. Didn't know he was there until they started handing out the awards. Some Sn3ers also snapped up awards. Broke the HO grip on the joint. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2824	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: Painting help

I'm probably going to get controversial here, but here goes anyway! Brake Fluid for paint stripping changes the plastic. It gets into the pores and you can't get rid of it, although you can probably paint the car. I find over time the plastic gets more brittle after the brake fluid treatment. You said you cleaned the car, well, put your nose up close, bet you can smell brake fluid! I've heard that there are some oven cleaners that can be used to remove paint, but I haven't tried them yet. Removing windows. There is probably a solvent that might do it, I've found that fortunately there isn't a lot of glue used on most windows, and some judicious use of a razor blade will remove them. It is rare that you can save them! I'm still not satisfied with my removal method. This is one time that I think L made an improvement, the molded, drop in windows are great! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2825	From: John Foley	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: 99 S spree

Hi Folks Just got back from the S Spree in Dayton Ohio. It was hosted by the Miami Valley S gaugers, this was the the first time they hosted a Spree and they did a great job. A few announcements, American Models is going to produce the PRR streamlined K-4., Southwind is planning a brass SD45. S-helper a SW-1. I know there was more I can't recall but Jeff Madden our NASG Dispatch editor was in attendance with his notepad and camera so he will have a fuller report. The host club was kind enough to provide the NASG tables in a great spot out front. We signed up 12 new members. Thanks guy's. John Foley NASG Eastern VP

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2826	From: Bill Porter	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Brake Fluid and Plastics

Hi Ya'll, I've been following the thread on painting and repainting without comment since most of what was said seemed to mirror my own experience. David of the Deweys spoke a warning about my beloved brake fluid and I want to echo it with a little modification. I mostly use brake fluid for paint removal and it is mostly OK. Mostly. All plastics are a bit porous and his points are good ones. I hadn't thought of the 'sniff' test, but I'll use it from now on. After soaking in brake fluid for a couple of days and having the paint rubbed off with a tooth brush, I clean plastic cars with soap and warm water allowing them to soak for an hour or two. Every car I have painted after such stripping has been fine - not brittle and no peeling later. Not every car so stripped has been painted as some of them dissolved. It seems there are many formulations for plastic. Most of the plastic cars and locos I've worked on have been recent - the last 20 years or so. These cars have been mostly OK. But, a couple of German made cars and some older things have just gone to pieces. They wound up the same way they would if I used regular oil or grease on the mechanisms. So, if the thing you are planning to repaint is old plastic or of special value to you, you might want to avoid good old brake fluid. There are some commercial strippers on the market that are supposed to be safer for a wider range of plastics. Good Luck, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2827	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: paint removal-safe for plastic and you

Guys,you and your brake fluid!AAARGH!!! Try Mr.Muscle brand oven cleaner!!I have used it on my model planes from my pre-airbrush,pre-Humbrol paint(absolutely the world's best model enamels.Pity they don't do us RR color-er,colours) Use the oven cleaner at room temp,do it in your tub or sink,wear rubber gloves!-and most gilbert paints are gone in 1/2 hour. Take an old toothbrush to the body with some soft-scrub to clean up for painting-no worry about ruining the plastis-even clear survives like new!! Warning-Gilbert stuff MUST be sprayed with Floquil barrier coat first if you plan 2 use Floquil for the color-unless you WANT a leather-grained caboose or whatever. Use brake fluid in your car's master cylinder,use Mr. Muscle on your repaint projects.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2828	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: [Fwd: failure notice]

Not sure I understand what is going on here; I thought we had all the bases covered.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2829	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: Prices et al.

If you are looking for dealers who have dumped everything above HO, I'll name one--Duane McDaniel, Topeka, Kansas. He has quit selling S-HS and A-M because he could get it only through Walthers. As you know, Don Thompson wants his dealers to be storefront, and that is his prerogative(Don and I have already hashed this last summer)--Duane is not a storefront, but goes to meets, etc., what some of the storefront owners refer to as a "basement bomber". Duane says Bashista is very hard to deal with direct, last time I talked to Duane he said he still had a big backlog of ordered stuff he has never shipped. There is something of a "go with the flow" we need to have as we pursue this, it seems to be part of the game. Storefronts versus the guys who travel to other sites will always be controversial for those who need to get involved. Jeffrey Tangeman wrote: > From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...> > > Greetings, > > Last August when I was in Maine I visited a train shop that ONCE sold L > flyer. The owner ststed that he quit selling it because it was overpriced > (to him or the consumer) and had low demand (for him). I also visited a shop > in Omaha that dumped everything bigger that HO because it didn't sell for him. > > I do have to wonder when I can get NEW O gauge Santa Fe items from K-Line or > Weaver for 20.00 to 25.00 dollars an item and then the L-Flyer items cost > 35.00 to 50.00 on average. Difference in China/USA manufacture, I don't know. > > As far as Ebay goes, If you pay what you think it's worth and you're happy > with tha purchase... > > Jeff Tangeman > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for an efficient, fun way to stay in touch with family members? > http://www.onelist.com > Create a ONElist community just for your family! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2830	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: 99 S spree

TO S Helper Service..... If you do the SW1 could you get your mfg in China to keep the rear truck mount inside the confines of the hood out line and not like your SW-9? Larry John Foley wrote: > From: John Foley <foley164@...> > > Hi Folks > Just got back from the S Spree in Dayton Ohio. > It was hosted by the Miami Valley S gaugers, this was the > the first time they hosted a Spree and they did a great job. > A few announcements, American Models is going to produce the > PRR streamlined K-4., Southwind is planning a brass SD45. > S-helper a SW-1. I know there was more I can't recall but > Jeff Madden our NASG Dispatch editor was in attendance with > his notepad and camera so he will have a fuller report. > The host club was kind enough to provide the NASG tables in > a great spot out front. We signed up 12 new members. > Thanks guy's. > > John Foley > NASG Eastern VP > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Have you visited the new ONElist home page lately? > http://www.ONElist.com > ONElist: The Leading e-mail list and community service on the Internet! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2831	From: Donald E. Munsey, Jr.	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Tie Treatment Plants

My Friends, I am considering using a tie, timber and pole treatment plant to serve as an interchange between my standard gauge and the narrow gauge. It seems this would be quite a hub of activity, could combine many interesting operational possibilities, and would lend itself to be compressed and/or segmented into the space available. I'm a western Virginia boy (Craig County stuck it out to the end in 1865!) so I'm particularly interested in the Norfolk & Western facility at Radford, Va. Two (#1, a 2-6-0 built by Pittsburgh; outshopped as a 2-6-0T by the Roanoke shops and #3, a 0-4-0T Vulcan saddle tanker) of the three N&W narrow gauge locos are shown in Ingles' book, N&W: Giant of Steam. I've found a few images in the N&W collection of the Va Tech photo archives. But, I'd really like to find the plant layout/track diagram or a city map and better coverage of the retorts. I need help. Does anyone have any other references or info on the N&W facility or any other tie treatment plants, especially during the creosote days! THNX! -- Big Swede (aka Don Munsey, Jr.) UpperRightCorner of Louisiana StoryTeller, CopperSmith, S/Sn3 ModelRailroader & Bonsai grasshopper. A Recovering Forester now teaching High School Geometry!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2832	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: PS-1

Hi Keith, I saw your PS-1 comment in the Dispatch. I don't remember this comment from the e-mail list. I agree Keith, it would be nice to have a PS-1. I am concerned though whether there are enough people who think that it is enough different from the dreadnought end cars to support production. I suspect the most viable method is if PacRail could put PS-1 ends on their 40 and 50 cars, similar to how they offered an alternate style roof for some 40' cars. Do you know, are the sides and roofs the same for a PS-1 as for other PacRail cars? Since PacRail was willing to do a different roof, which I suspect was much less used than PS ends, they should be able to do the PS ends. Seems to me the market for PS ends should be much greater than the market for the alternate (Hutchins?) roof was. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2833	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/2/1999
Subject: Re: Painting help

Can't help with the windows but you should be able now to prime, let dry and then paint your model. works for me at least cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2834	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Tie Treatment Plants

There was an article several years ago in one of the model RR mags about a tie treatment plant. I used it to do an N scale ceiling tie model for a contest. I've been looking for my copy of that article for my S layout and I will pass it on whenever it surfaces. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2835	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: New webpage stuff

New Links http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/links/links.htm New Scrapbook pages http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/scrapbook/5/scrapbook1.htm New images added to Bookstore (new 'Famous Flyer' book) http://www.homestead.com/s_bookstore/files/welcome.htm Paul Yorke American Flyer operator/Stereo Photographer S-Trains Mailing / http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains (Primary Email Yorke@... - Backup paulyork@...) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2836	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: 1890's Train

Over the weekend I visited a train shop in Mt. Airy, Maryland and saw what I can best describe as an 1890's train. It consisted of a colorful engine (4-4-0 I recall) and 2 passenger cars. I'd say the condition was VG. Unfortunately, I did not get the number on the engine. They wanted $185 for it, including enough track to make an oval and 1 very small transformer. What do you think I saw and what do you think it is worth? Pete Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2837	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 220

Sorry, Tom, that the Lake Special '99 Convention cars do not have any appeal for you. This is an excellent example of "different strokes for different folks". Being a resident of the upper Midwest, I've tired of all the focus on the PRR, NYC, ATSF and UP logos and not being able to get a desirable piece of rolling stock in the road of my choice, Northern Pacific, unless I convert a unit from the infamous "undec" line. But I understand the "numbers" and don't really be-grudge eastern or western road lovers getting items of their desire. As to the convention cars you mentioned, the response from "S'ers" has been fantastic. The SOO reefer is very unique, being PFE cars purchased used and converted for use to haul potatoes from the Red River Valley. The Minneapolis and St. Louis is a well loved (at least in this area) small "fallen flag" railroad that doesn't normally get much model exposure, even in HO scale. While the the PS-2 hoppers might appear to be "drab" from a color viewpoint (black lettering on a grey base), Don Thompson gave me copies of the production models at the S Spree and they look fantastic! The accurate M&StL fonts and the use of a white painted stripe under some of the black lettering is very unique. Sales of all three cars has greatly exceeded our expectations at this time and members of the Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop (Lake Special '99 sponsoring club) have been putting in their orders, concerned about a possible sell-out. We are a diverse group in S and obviously not every project is going to appeal to every individual (Go SD-45!) Walt Jopke > From: "Gerbasi" <kgerbasi@...> > Subject: special issue cars > > I guess I must be the only one who thinks so, but I am really disappointed > by the special issue cars this year. > > For the NASG convention, the PS-2 hoppers seem pretty ordinary, and, > unless one models the Midwest, not too likely to appeal; to anyone out of > the area, and the SOO LINE "Potato Refer" likewise is likely to be too > regional to have wide appeal. > > For the NASG AF car, the GN caboose is a Lionel car on AF trucks, is > pretty expensive in comparison to a SHS Caboose, and, I, for one, don't > have a GN loco to run it with (besides, I model the Northeast, where you > never see a GN Caboose) > > For the NASG car, the UP car is way too modern for the era I model. > > The TTOS car is a AF SP tanker, and again is priced very high, and, again, > SP tank cars never made it to the Northeast. > > The NMRA car is a Canandagua Southern Cylindrical Hopper, a nice car but > way too modern for the era I model (I would have bought a 50's era car in > the same road name) > > The St. Louis Spree car is another AF 3 bay hopper with that goofy central > loading cover that is so weird, and, at $19 more than an SHS hopper, is a > little rich for my blood. > > I don't wish to seem negative, but this is the first year I haven't wanted > to run out and buy every special car I was offered. > > I can see why one would want to model a car with regional roots for an > event, but I am surprised by how little I am tempted this year. > > I suspect I am being "spoiled" by the bounty of good cars there are out > there, because I am buying as many cars as I usually buy, but they are all > from Crown Models, SHS and PRS. > > Tom Gerbasi >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2838	From: Mark Preman	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale-May List

Hi gang, The May list is up. Lot's o' collector stuff in this list from "rare" to "more common but beautiful condition". By the way, I was laid off by Lockheed Martin for the second and last time last Friday. This shoots the original financial plan full of holes. It does however, mean I can accept train calls now beginning at 10 AM instead of waiting until evening. (sounds good to me) Mark http://www.americanflyertrains.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2839	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Light in whistling billboard

There is a slot in the base of a whistling billboard that seems to be for the purpose of illuminating the sign. Has anybody tried to do this? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2840	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Did someone say Milwaukee?

This northeasterner would give his eyeteeth for a M+StP Bi-Polar in S!! Do I suffer from Bi-polar disorder? Maybe, 'cuz what I'd REALLY like is for someone to GIVE me an Ives or Flyer Wide-Gauge B-P! Or is it tri-polar disorder 'cuz I also operate the Dread Zero Gauge, too?Hey, I love electric trains!! A Milwaukee Road B-P would be a dream come true for me-are you listening, AM?( and Jeanne, my birthday is coming up!!) - john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2841	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: What's in the Greenburg guide to AF Volume three?

Anybody know? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2842	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Light in whistling billboard

The metal framed billboards sometimes had this feature, two lamps on each end of the slot, and a yellow wire for power. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2843	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 211

> >Message: 17 > Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 12:08:58 -0700 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@... >Subject: Re: Off topic stealing credit!! > >Hi all! > >Well, I don't know who stole what, but one thing we Yanks ain't gonna lay claim to is Lucas' invention of the Short Circuit!! > >(for those of you unfamilliar with sport cars, and Lucas Electric componants, this is a JOKE--made very light-heartedly too! Oh, wait there's another electric pun in there, gads I can't get away from them, sorry!) >S' >David D. > As an owner of a '68 Triumph i understand... I just want to know when "Lucas, Prince of Darkness" plans to build some DCC components! kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2844	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: overhead

> Message: 23 > Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 00:36:27 +0100 > From: mark.p.baker@... > Subject: FW: [Sn3] Re: 3/16" "S"cale Railroading magazine > > On 29/4/99 Jeff Sankus wrote: > > > Soooo, John you know how to string > catenary for S scale do you... I would > really would like to hear more, any > chance of that article being republished > or circulated some how? Anyone else > out there interested in overhead > > > I certainly would. I would like to build a model based in Sheffield > (Yorkshire, England) where they had a line that went across the Pennines to > Manchester that used overhead 1500V DC. I'm doing overhead, PRR prototype. Last year i came across Model Memories who were making HO catenary. The stuff was beautfull and i asked to have some made in S scale. (I had some on display in the model contest at last years NASG conv.) They now sell S scale catenary though their web page does not reflect this: http://www.info-4u.com/modelmemories/ Look in the HO section for info... It's US prototype but you may be able to adapt it for others... kbt p.s. i just got back from Paris... REAL electric trains everywhere! must be what heaven is like... :)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2845	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Light in whistling billboard

The slot is there because some of the billboards were illuminated. Scott Holm wrote: > > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > There is a slot in the base of a whistling billboard > that seems to be for the purpose of illuminating the > sign. Has anybody tried to do this? > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that we add over 1,000 new e-mail communities every day? > http://www.ONElist.com > Explore a new hobby, discover a new friend, laugh at a new joke! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2846	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: my wish list, M+StP RR

This northeasterner would give his eyeteeth for a Milwaukee Bi-Polar in S. Do I suf- fer from bi-polar disorder? Maybe,because what I'd REALLY like is for someone to GIVE me an Ives Wide Gauge B-P!! Well maybe Tri-polar disorder,'cuz I also operate the dread Zero Gauge, too.So I love electric trains a lot, I guess! But that B-P would be one BITCHIN' engine in S-hint, hint-are you listening, AM?-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2847	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Jos. Lucas & Sons, Ltd.

If anyone should wonder why they drink warm beer in the UK, it's because Lucas makes their refrigerators.-john marganski-ex-Austin-Healey(100-4,100-6,3000 Mk.II,) MG-TD,-TF, A,B,Spridget and Lotus Elan S-2 owner)-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2848	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Paint Stripping

In response to John Griffin's question about paint stripping: I've stripped plastic loco shells and cars with excellent results using powdered laundry detergent (Tide, but any will do). Dump a scoop of it into a bucket containing enough water to cover the shells. Stir well, and put the shells in. After a few hours, scrub them with a soft toothbrush. Continue soaking and occasionally scrubbing until they come out clean. Depending on the age of the paint, this can take from a few hours to a week or better. Be patient. Thoroughly rinse before painting. I've also stripped paint from a sheet-metal tender using this method, but you'll have some slight surface rust which will need to be cleaned with your Dremel's wire brush. A fellow club member stripped his die-cast 321 Hudson with nail-polish remover (acetone), and the paint came right off. He just wiped it on and off with a rag. (Don't use this on plastic, though.) Hope this helps. John Eichmann Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2849	From: Jarcho	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: psint strippers

There are several effective ways to strip paint from toy trains. First of all, paint strippers do not remove paint -- they only soften it. These products were no doubt named after the old time burlesque queens, who never (well, hardly ever) took it all off. The strippers sold in hardware stores for metal and wood WILL melt flyer plastic. They are quick and effective on metal items. A strong solution of a detergent such as Mr Clean is the gentlest paint stripper. It is best for plastic items. Sometimes it is just not strong enough. Oven cleaners contain lye or another strong alkali. These are effective paint strippers but have drawbacks. Flyer white metal is very porous and it's difficult to get all the lye out of it, even with vigorous and prolonged rinsing. Also, I have found that sometimes, especially if left on for a long time, oven cleaners will subtly damage Flyer plastic, making its outermost surface dry, brittle, and whiitish. Lacquer thinner, nail polish remover, and other organic solvents, can be used to wipe off a lot of but not all painted finishes on metal items. This method will not really soften paint in crevicers very much, and there are a lot of unpleasant fumes involved. These chemicals will attack plastic violently. Brake fluid is another effective paint stripper, especially for plastic items, which it rarely damages. Though it may leave an aroma, its paint attacking seems to be neutralized by water. It is fairly slow acting -- items must be soaked overnight most times. Finally, there are the new paint strippers for plastic sold in train stores. The one I tried was wonderful. I thought brake fluid was satisfactory, but this stuff is stronger, much quicker, does a more thorough job, and does not attack the plastic. I strongly recommend it. Of course, you should always try a little stripper on an inconspicuous inner surface of a plastic item before stripping just to be sure the stripper doesn't attack the plastic. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2850	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?

I wanted to thank every one who responded to my question about what organizations, magazines, etc. would best suit my decidedly American Flyer interests. I thought that I'd post a summary of the responses I got: 4 definite votes for NASG and it's "Dispatch" publication and for "S-Gaugian" magazine. Both are exclusively S- related (duh!) and contain a mixture of AF/high-rail specific and scale/prototypical. Unfortunately, few members and no clubs in my area (Phoenix). 1 vote for NMRA. S- is a relatively small percentage and there is an emphasis on scale. Benefits include emphasis on model railroading in general, definitions of standards and practices, large library, camaraderie etc. 1 qualified vote for the AF Collectors Club. Editor has health problems, suspending it's magazine publication. It probably will not resume. 1 neutral to negative for "Classic Toy Trains" magazine. Mainly O- with an occasional AF layout or maintenance/repair article. 1 qualified negative for TTOS and TCA. 95% O- related with occasional AF article. May be worth joining to get access to members only shows. Based on the above, NASG and "S-Gaugian" would seem to best fit my needs. NMRA, TCA and TTOS have comparatively little AF/S- related to offer but might be worth it for show access and/or if they have a local club with a strong AF/high-rail presence. -- Jerry Riechert riecherg@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2851	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: 99 S spree

No -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2852	From: Bill Porter	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?

Hi Jerry, Someone should also have mentioned S/Sn3 Modeling Guide in a very positive light. It is all....S. There is an emphasis on doing things rather than on collecting things. I guess that is why it is Modeling Guide. Contact: Wade Publishing P.O. Box 1672 Seffner, FL 33583 813 681 7666 Good Luck, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Riechert <riecherg@...> To: S-Trains mailing list <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Monday, May 03, 1999 3:23 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Magazines/organizations? >From: Jerry Riechert <riecherg@...> > >I wanted to thank every one who responded to my question about what >organizations, magazines, etc. would best suit my decidedly American >Flyer interests. I thought that I'd post a summary of the responses >I got: > >4 definite votes for NASG and it's "Dispatch" publication and for >"S-Gaugian" magazine. Both are exclusively S- related (duh!) and contain >a mixture of AF/high-rail specific and scale/prototypical. >Unfortunately, few members and no clubs in my area (Phoenix). > >1 vote for NMRA. S- is a relatively small percentage and there is an >emphasis on scale. Benefits include emphasis on model railroading in >general, definitions of standards and practices, large library, >camaraderie etc. > >1 qualified vote for the AF Collectors Club. Editor has health problems, >suspending it's magazine publication. It probably will not resume. > >1 neutral to negative for "Classic Toy Trains" magazine. Mainly O- with >an occasional AF layout or maintenance/repair article. > >1 qualified negative for TTOS and TCA. 95% O- related with occasional >AF article. May be worth joining to get access to members only shows. > >Based on the above, NASG and "S-Gaugian" would seem to best fit my >needs. NMRA, TCA and TTOS have comparatively little AF/S- related to >offer but might be worth it for show access and/or if they have a local >club with a strong AF/high-rail presence. > >-- > Jerry Riechert riecherg@... > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Did you know that ONElist hosts some of the largest lists on the Internet? >http://www.ONElist.com >Our scaleable system is the most reliable free e-mail service on the Internet! >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2853	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: paint removal-safe for plastic and you

Mr. Muscle isn't available in my area. We try to recommend something that can be found in all parts of the country. Roger > From: Toyguy5344@... > > Guys,you and your brake fluid!AAARGH!!! Try Mr.Muscle brand oven cleaner!!I

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2854	From: Neil Trump	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Lucas & Flyer

Just equate Lucas to Flyer, both require constant love and attention to keep them going. Neil T. >(for those of you unfamiliar with sport cars, and Lucas Electric components, this is a JOKE--made very light-heartedly too! Oh, wait there's another electric pun in there, gads I can't get away from them, sorry!) >S' >David D. > As an owner of a '68 Triumph I understand... I just want to know when "Lucas, Prince of Darkness" plans to build some DCC components! kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2855	From: Neil Trump	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Warm beer in England

John, Warm beer? must have been a long time since you sampled those delights, tasted just fine this evening when I tried it!! BTW, sounds like you are a glutton for punishment with all those Austin's and MG's. And they say we exported the best? Neil T. From the home land? If anyone should wonder why they drink warm beer in the UK, it's because Lucas makes their refrigerators.-john marganski-ex-Austin-Healey(100-4,100-6,3000 Mk.II,) MG-TD,-TF, A,B,Spridget and Lotus Elan S-2 owner)-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2856	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Thank You

Thanks to everyone who responded with suggestions on my sticking 770 problem. Just got back from the show so will be a few days before I can try your solutions. Thanks Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2857	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?

You missed the best one, put aot by Bill Wade Larry Jerry Riechert wrote: > From: Jerry Riechert <riecherg@...> > > I wanted to thank every one who responded to my question about what > organizations, magazines, etc. would best suit my decidedly American > Flyer interests. I thought that I'd post a summary of the responses > I got: > > 4 definite votes for NASG and it's "Dispatch" publication and for > "S-Gaugian" magazine. Both are exclusively S- related (duh!) and contain > a mixture of AF/high-rail specific and scale/prototypical. > Unfortunately, few members and no clubs in my area (Phoenix). > > 1 vote for NMRA. S- is a relatively small percentage and there is an > emphasis on scale. Benefits include emphasis on model railroading in > general, definitions of standards and practices, large library, > camaraderie etc. > > 1 qualified vote for the AF Collectors Club. Editor has health problems, > suspending it's magazine publication. It probably will not resume. > > 1 neutral to negative for "Classic Toy Trains" magazine. Mainly O- with > an occasional AF layout or maintenance/repair article. > > 1 qualified negative for TTOS and TCA. 95% O- related with occasional > AF article. May be worth joining to get access to members only shows. > > Based on the above, NASG and "S-Gaugian" would seem to best fit my > needs. NMRA, TCA and TTOS have comparatively little AF/S- related to > offer but might be worth it for show access and/or if they have a local > club with a strong AF/high-rail presence. > > -- > Jerry Riechert riecherg@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know that ONElist hosts some of the largest lists on the Internet? > http://www.ONElist.com > Our scaleable system is the most reliable free e-mail service on the Internet! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2858	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Warm beer in England

Really Bear is the best at 42 degrees. This is where good beer is separated from the garbage. That is why most US beers must be drank ICE COLD because you would think they were puke is you had them at 42. I was in the beer business many moons ago. Larry Neil Trump wrote: > John, Warm beer? must have been a long time > since you sampled those delights, tasted just > fine this evening when I tried it!! BTW, sounds > like you are a glutton for punishment with all > those Austin's and MG's. And they say we > exported the best? Neil T. From the home land? > If anyone should wonder why they drink warm beer > in the UK, it's because Lucas > makes their refrigerators.-john > marganski-ex-Austin-Healey(100-4,100-6,3000 > Mk.II,) > MG-TD,-TF, A,B,Spridget and Lotus Elan S-2 > owner)-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2859	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Fixed Scrapbook

I fixed the Scrapbook 6-1,2,3 and the 7-1,2,3 errors. Thanks for the heads up. You may need to hit 'reload' to get the corrected versions http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/scrapbook/6/scrapbook1.htm _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2860	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: 99 S spree

To bad. There are some conversions that could be done if that motor mount could could be inside the hood line. It could be done because the front one is. You just don't want to change it as you are probably going to use the same frame you have as all the SWs were on the same frame. Larry Robin Thompson wrote: > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > > No > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ONElist: bringing the world together. > http://www.onelist.com > Join today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2861	From: Richard Snook	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: S Refreshments

I labelled this as S-refreshments to sneak it in Any one who has dealt with the wonderful amber liquid in a business sense will know that beer aint beer...that is to say, there are Lagers (both top and bottom fermented types, let alone the style of filtering) we have stouts (Guiness being the most famous) there are ales, beers, meads, pilstens, bitters,rice beer ....etc etc etc (as Yul would say) these have different characteristics, and have different guidelines for keeping and serving and back to list topic (trains) transportation. As they say Oils aint Oils and beers aint beers. Some beers (sic) lend themselves to transportation in say a boxcar and some will go off just looking at the Keg !! :-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2862	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: 99 S spree ACTUALLY frame changes for SWs

I'm going to jump in here, as this has been posted to the S-Trains whole list; and not being involved in, nor even owning one of these little jems (I Love them--they're over-detailed though, makes my AF look bad!) I *think* I can be an "uninvolved third person". Moving the mounts would probably offer the modelers more opportunities for kit-bashing and super-detailing. Unfortunately this apparently wasn't brought to Don's attention during the original tooling and pre-production samples of the original design. At this time, it would be cost prohibitive to change the tooling, and probably the frames are already produced, or in production now. There is a bit of lead time required when producing stuff overseas, there's even some when producing it "in house". Don't think or imply that two unyielding forces are at work here. Next time a new design is done, I'll bet that more discussion flows between the people involved. Life is never perfect, if it were, S would be the dominate gauge! (What!!! you mean it isn't????) Ok, that's my 2� worth, if it's worth that much!<G> S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2863	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: 99 S spree ACTUALLY frame changes for SWs

The cost of moving them by a toolmaker in the US of A would be less than $1000. I could probably get a whole new mold made for less than $4000. in the USof A. To do this in Chins is or should be less. In my opinion it is not prohibitive. And any change could be used in the old models as well in the new. I will probably make a new mount that can be used in changing things. Larry David Dewey wrote: > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > I'm going to jump in here, as this has been posted to the S-Trains whole > list; and not being involved in, nor even owning one of these little jems (I > Love them--they're over-detailed though, makes my AF look bad!) I *think* I > can be an "uninvolved third person". > Moving the mounts would probably offer the modelers more opportunities > for kit-bashing and super-detailing. Unfortunately this apparently wasn't > brought to Don's attention during the original tooling and pre-production > samples of the original design. At this time, it would be cost prohibitive > to change the tooling, and probably the frames are already produced, or in > production now. There is a bit of lead time required when producing stuff > overseas, there's even some when producing it "in house". > Don't think or imply that two unyielding forces are at work here. Next > time a new design is done, I'll bet that more discussion flows between the > people involved. Life is never perfect, if it were, S would be the dominate > gauge! (What!!! you mean it isn't????) > Ok, that's my 2� worth, if it's worth that much!<G> > S' > David D. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for the perfect gift for a friend? > http://www.onelist.com > Tell them about ONElist's 130,000 free e-mail communities! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2864	From: Gerbasi	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 220

Good Point!! I was afraid I was going to anger a lot of people when I wrote my e-mail. Like you point out, there are a lot of different people in S. I was just surprised that I didn't find any of the special cars appealing, and I wondered if it was just me. I think it was. I sure can see the view from the other side, that people are sick of Eastern roads, tired of cars are small enough to negotiate AF curves, and sick of cars that fit the time period of most of the modelers. I LOVE the fact that special events allow small runs of unusual prototype cars that might not be economically feasible if they were for the general population of S gaugers. I usually love the unusual and find the special cars so exciting that I go nuts trying to buy them all. That's why I wondered about the topic. In retrospect, I hope I didn't hurt anyone in musing out loud. I think next time I will hold my tongue. Sorry if I did any damage to your sales. Tom -----Original Message----- From: JOPKE, WALTER <jopke@...> To: 'S-Trains@onelist.com' <S-Trains@onelist.com> Cc: 'kgerbasi@...' <kgerbasi@...> Date: Monday, May 03, 1999 10:16 AM Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Digest Number 220 >Sorry, Tom, that the Lake Special '99 Convention cars do not have any appeal >for you. This is an excellent example of "different strokes for different >folks". Being a resident of the upper Midwest, I've tired of all the focus >on the PRR, NYC, ATSF and UP logos and not being able to get a desirable >piece of rolling stock in the road of my choice, Northern Pacific, unless I >convert a unit from the infamous "undec" line. But I understand the >"numbers" and don't really be-grudge eastern or western road lovers getting >items of their desire. > >As to the convention cars you mentioned, the response from "S'ers" has been >fantastic. The SOO reefer is very unique, being PFE cars purchased used and >converted for use to haul potatoes from the Red River Valley. The >Minneapolis and St. Louis is a well loved (at least in this area) small >"fallen flag" railroad that doesn't normally get much model exposure, even >in HO scale. While the the PS-2 hoppers might appear to be "drab" from a >color viewpoint (black lettering on a grey base), Don Thompson gave me >copies of the production models at the S Spree and they look fantastic! The >accurate M&StL fonts and the use of a white painted stripe under some of the >black lettering is very unique. Sales of all three cars has greatly >exceeded our expectations at this time and members of the Pines and Prairies >S Scale Workshop (Lake Special '99 sponsoring club) have been putting in >their orders, concerned about a possible sell-out. > >We are a diverse group in S and obviously not every project is going to >appeal to every individual (Go SD-45!) > >Walt Jopke >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2865	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/3/1999
Subject: Re: Gabe

<<I am not sure if the repro Gabes are yet a fact. As I understand it, the guy who is doing them has been unable to get the drum done for them--which is a very important piece. >> We HAVE the Gabe drum ! The only Gabe items NOT preently available are the bottom mechanism (which holds and operates the drum), and the stamped lamp bracket assembly. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2866	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Light in whistling billboard

Here is the best response to my question regarding the whistling billboard. --- Toyguy5344@... wrote: > scott,you have the cheap bill board that had no lights. there was an even > less expensive board that had lights, but no whistle!! An illuminated board > has 2 light sockets-1 on either end of the slot, oriented horizontally with > the bulbs facing eachother.get a pair of old 290 or 283 type bulb and bracket > assemblies and drill > appropriate holes in the base of the billboard, then rivet the units to the > board. The head is on the outside of the billboard base-good luck-john > marganski > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2867	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: 1890's Train

Pete Ervin said: >I visited a train shop and saw what >I can best describe as an 1890's train. It consisted of a colorful engine >(4-4-0 I recall) and 2 passenger cars. I'd say the condition was VG. >They wanted $185,including enough track to make an oval and 1 very small >transformer. What do you think I saw and what do you think it is worth? Probably Pete, you saw a 21088 Franklin set with two #20 coaches. This set had an optional baggage car and I have seen the whole deal MIB at York for $250-$275. In VG, missing the baggage, no boxes, I would pay $150-$175. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2868	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: The Stripper!

Da-danh dah-dah, Da-danh dah-dah, take it off, take it ALL off! As a fellow aficionado of stripping, let me addend to all the posts on the subject. If you schlep around to enough train shows and swap meets, you are bound to pick up some junkers here and there. I've got boxes of boxcars and cabeese with chunks broken out of them. So must you, by now. Make them your sacrificial lambs in the paint stripper acid test. Just try to determine if the test car is made of the same kind of plastic as the good car. If it comes from the same manufacturer in the same time period and is the same type of car, that should be enough qualification. Don't use a broken Pikemaster boxcar to test the viabiliy of dipping a link couplered New Haven passenger car! Gilbert, Lionel, everybody, changed their plastic formulations over the years, even, sometimes, in the same model of car! So even after you are satisfied with the test car results, it is still a good idea to dab the stripper on an inside wall and watch it for fifteen minutes before you take the plunge. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2869	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Organizations

Jerry: I would have to disagree strongly on your assessment of TCA. I have met loads of Flyer people there. Yes, the emphasis is on "O" gauge. What would you expect with the dominance Lionel has held in the market since before we were born (1947 for me!)? But the stronger emphasis is on Toy Trains. Most of the "S" organizations stress scale over Flyer. This is a natural outgrowth of all those years where S guys were stranded with virtually no suppliers after the death of Gilbert Flyer and found themselves scrachbuilding everything. S even became known as "the builder's scale". You are in a distinct minority, and for you, there is NO specific publication. There is no American Flyer Monthly, no S-Gauge Hi-Rail News. I know, I've looked. Yes, NASG and S-Gaugian will give you some sustenance, but I also strongly recommend a subscription to Classic Toy Trains, who some of us relentlessly pressure into straying onto 2-rail track, and a membership in TCA, the only Toy Train Association. Access to shows, man, I guess you don't know about York. Imagine 7 gymnasiums filled with toy trains. Even if only 10% of it was Flyer, you couldn't see it all in one day! The S-Fests and S-Sprees are usually held 500 to 1000 miles from where I live. York is a four and one half hour drive in each direction, twice a year, so maybe I am predjudiced by geography. Here is another point. No matter how much you may worship at the altar of A.C. Gilbert, try to stay inter-denominational. It won't hurt you to see what's going on in the other gauges. Where goes O, so goes S. Our fates are linked. It is all one big hobby. I routinely stop by the Lionel tent at York and talk Flyer with them. I talk with Mike Wolf of MTH fame about stepping into the S arena. The Ross track boys are still promising to dip in and give us some of their awesome switch machines. And when you see some new locomotive in O, you get ideas for your S wish-list. This forum is routinely monitored by S manufacturers, (Hi, Don! I missed Robin at York) and wish-lists have a way of becoming reality. My advice, don't box yourself in with a solecistic viewpoint. Broaden your horizons and relate to the hobby as a whole, while you continue to specialize in American Flyer. Yes, I have a subscription to "S/Sn3 Modeling Guide", but it is as foreign to my Hi-rail interests as Classic Toy Trains is to my 2-rail interests. I don't see my minority position as restrictive, I see it as liberating. Maybe I'm better off without "American Flyer Monthly". Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2870	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Fw: S-Gauge

Geez, I AM over contributing today. Sorry, but, this return from Train America Studios re: our thread on TMCC use with Flyer just came in this minute, so I am forwarding it in it's entirety. CZ -----Original Message----- From: Mike Reagan <mike@...> To: busy-boy <busy-boy@...> Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 11:20 AM Subject: Re: S-Gauge >busy-boy wrote: >> >> Hi: >> I operate hi-rail s-gauge with a mixture of vintage American Flyer, modern >> Flyer, American Models and S-Helper Service engines, all on 2-rail track. >> >> I contribute to the S-Trains mail list: >> http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm (you might consider >> subscribing and monitoring the conversations there). Recently, there has >> been increased discussion over the viability of using TMCC on our layouts. >> I have been considering it, but I am only interested in full individual >> engine control (full command control). >> >> In one of your ads, I saw a reference to installing the UCUB in Flyer locos. >> Could you elaborate on this in an e-letter that I can post to the list for >> all to see? If this is a real possibility for us, you will indeed be >> broadening your market base as well as enhancing our operating abilities. >> >> Cordially, >> Chris Zizzo >Chris, >In response to your question of TMCC in the two rail flyer enviroment, I >beleive it will work. So long as you are working with 2 rail AC power. >The way TMCC works, is it uses a radio signal, sent through the ground >side of the rail. This signal is received by an antenna inside the >locomotive (connected to the UCUB). a constant stream of 18 volts is >applied to the track and each engine is controlled by signals given via >the radio signal. Therefore each engine has an ID number, resulting in >multiple engines operating on the same track at the same time (multiple >as in up to 99). > The UCUB measures 1 5/16" wide x 5" long x 1 3/8" tall (only at one end >is it tall). I have a few customers currently using TMCC with Am Flyer >trains, however have not done any experimenting myself. If the demand is >great enough, we could pull out some track and switches, and even some >engines and start tinkering. Let me know what you think, are you >interested? email us at info@... > >Thank You, >Mike Reagan >TAStudios

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2871	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] PS-1

Hi Ted, I wish it was as easy as changing ends on a PRS AAR boxcar to make a PS-1 or I would have done it already. Besides the "washboard" ends, PS-1s had distinct roofs, side sills, and wall panels. In HO, these details are important but can be fudged a bit as Accurail did with its 40-foot PS-1. I didn't even notice the problems with the wrong number of side panels until someone pointed it out to me. However, the symmetrical 3'5" roof panels and the fish belly side sills are just as much a part of the PS-1 as are the ends. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle mhrreast@... wrote: > > From: mhrreast@... > > Hi Keith, > > I saw your PS-1 comment in the Dispatch. I don't > remember this comment from the e-mail list. > > I agree Keith, it would be nice to have a PS-1. > I am concerned though whether there are enough > people who think that it is enough different from > the dreadnought end cars to support production. > I suspect the most viable method is if PacRail > could put PS-1 ends on their 40 and 50 cars, similar to > how they offered an alternate style roof for some 40' cars. > > Do you know, are the sides and roofs the same for > a PS-1 as for other PacRail cars? Since PacRail was > willing to do a different roof, which I suspect was much > less used than PS ends, they should be able to do the > PS ends. Seems to me the market for PS ends should > be much greater than the market for the alternate > (Hutchins?) roof was. > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html > > ________________________________________________________________ > Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use > from Juno, the world's second largest online service. > Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ultimate Swiss Army Knife ** Swiss Champ ** ONLY $44.95 Shipping Incl. > Never Get Stuck Again**Lg. Blade, Sm. Blade, Corkscrew, Scissors, pen > Chisel, Saw, Opener, Scaler. Great for Adventures or Father's Day!!! > http://www.onelist.com/ad/shoptheglobe12 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Proto:64 web site is located at: http://www.trainweb.org/proto64/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2872	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: What's in the Greenburg guide to AF Volume three?

Volume 3 of the Greenberg AF guide (4th ed. for vol. 1) covers sets (Gilbert and LTI production). Jay Mellon CCSG New Orleans, LA > ---------- > From: Scott Holm[SMTP:imsscott@...] > Sent: Monday, May 03, 1999 11:12 AM > To: s-trains > Subject: [S-Trains] What's in the Greenburg guide to AF Volume three? > > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > Anybody know? > _________________________________________________________ >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2873	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: S-scale Airplanes

There's been a lot of previous discussion about where S-scale (1/64) vehicles are available, but where can S-sized airplanes of any kind be gotten? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2874	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: 1890's Train

You probably saw a Frontiersman set (or part of one). There were several sets comprised of different combinations of the 21088 Franklin American style wood-burning steam engine (red, green, and gold color scheme) and the 20, 30, 40, and 50 old fashioned style cars (yellow and black with raised center roof). Or you saw the Washington 21089 (gold, and blue primarily) with some of the cars that went with it ( a flat with a cannon, box, etc). I bought a Frontiersman set with the 21088 and 20, 30, 40 cars in VG+/E condition that runs great for $195 off eBay, yes, eBay last year around Christmas time. If the seller hadn't bid it would have sold to me for $150, but since no reserve was set, the seller is allowed to bid once on their own merchandise during the auction. 21088 and their cars are fun and colorful trains. Clearly not for the scale modeler, but a kick to operate. I made some slight modifications to mine to help it smoke more reliably and operate with greater stability at full speed (spunky little engine can shake itself off the tracks in curves). If you want to know what those mods were, let me know. I think Paul or Doug at Port Lines put my initial description of them on their web site.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2875	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Greenburg vol III

My Volume III, which I purchased in 1995, contains photos and information about AF sets.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2876	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: Light in whistling billboard

David, et al: My circus billboard has two lights. Dates from around 1947. I figured they were all lighted! It seems I read somewhere that the metal billboards (the one I've got) were carry-overs from the pre-war era. As mine dates from '47 or '48 and was purchased in Syracuse, it made sense to me. Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2877	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Paint stripping

Since we're on the topic of paint stripping, I've always had good results with brake fluid until I tried to use it to strip some Floquil Polly-S. It did not remove the Polly-S latex paint. It did take off the Dull-Cote over-spray, but after soaking most of one summer, the Polly-S was still in place. As I used the Polly on some early attempts at free-lancing, I'd like to remove it from several shells. What works on Polly-S? Thanks for any suggestions. Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2878	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: Scott Holm and 1/64 aircraft

I've been building model aircraft for as long as I've been into electric trains, and there is just no such animal as a 1/64 scale 'plane. 1/48 (you know , rhymes with "zee" rail) and 1/72 (1"=6') are the most popular."Mutt" scales like 1/50,1/53, 1/110, are around, but I've never encountered 1/64. The exception may be some old re-issues by Revellogram, but the aircraft may be something like the Douglas Phase II Skyrocket!. I had intended to use some vintage airliners in my new layout(date pending), along the likes of a DC-3, Ford Trimotor, Lockheed Superelectra in 30's to early 50's operators(these are all in 1/72) as these have a number of aftermarket decal sheets available,and live with the over 10% scale difference-forced perspective of neccessity, not choice. But forget any modern equipment! That has it's own scale, 1/144 (1"=12',or half the size of 1/72), due to the huge size, say, a 747 would be in 1/48 or 1/72. That's the best we have.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2879	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Organizations

Chris, Sorry you are receiving this twice, but I did the S-Train Onelist incorretly the first time. Lee Chris, In your statement to Jerry that the "S" organizations stress scale over Flyer, I assume you are refering to NASG since that is the only "S" organization I know of. I'm not sure where your information is coming from since the NASG membership is 70% to 80% Flyer/Hi-Rail. There have been many S scalers who have not renewed their membership because they felt the NASG "Dispatch" was all Flyer/Hi-Rail oriented. I don't necessarily agree with them. Also, for many years, until this year, the special run freight cars that NASG offered exclusivly to its members were only Flyer/Hi-Rail cars. NASG is intended for both the Flyer/Hi-Rail and scale modeler in "S". That is what its symbol, the mating couplers represeent--Flyer/Hi-Rail and scale jining forces to represent "S". There are many modelers in "S" scale whose roots were in Flyer, and it was the enjoyment of the size that kept them in "S" when they went to scale. By the way, there were quite a few suppliers in "S" scale during the Gilbert years. The scale guys were not stranded by the death of Gilbert Flyer. Gilbert had some great cars that could be converted to scale, but these were usually found in junk boxes. I am curious as to how you formed your opinion of "S" orgaanizations such as NASG since I reviewed the NASG membership lists back to 1993, and did not find you as a member in any of those lists. For only $17/year, you should try a membership for at least one year. The annual conventions are great, and are considered by many of us to be "family reunions". A great time to see a bunch of friends once a year that all share the same interest of "S"--both Flyer/Hi-Rail and scale. The Worcester, MA convention last year was pretty evenly split between Flyer/Hi-Rail and scale suppliers/dealers. The '95 convention in Altoona, PA was mostly Flyer/Hi-Rail; '96 conv. in Detriot was fairly evenly split; and '97 in Denver was mostly scale. It all pretty well evens out in the long run. I have yet to find where scale people can't learn something from the Flyer/Hi-Rail people, and Flyer/Hi-Rail people learn comething from the scale people. again, it is all "S". Lee Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2880	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: S-scale Airplanes

LINDBERG models by Craft House Corp., Toledo, Ohio makes a model of the B-17G. At this past spring spree one of the modular groups was running a military train that included airplanes, tanks and trucks that were 1/72 scale and it looked great. They also had an airbase made up of Plasticville's Control Tower, Hangers and the Hospital converted into a HQ building, plus 1/72 scale model airplanes on the runway, again it looked great. 'S', Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2881	From: jdoran	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: automatic switching

.I've been lurking around this list since before York. Been impressed with the knowledge base out there. Hope somebody can help. I'm building a layout and would like to wire a loop with a passing siding that would automatically alternate two trains. (one train runs a loop then switches to let the other train run a loop.) This is a standard Flyer layout with AC power. I remember seeing this as a kid on the department store layouts in St. Louis back in the early 50's. Anybody have a clue how to do this? Thanks Doc

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2882	From: Scott Brown	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: 1890's Train

Ok, David (Horn), I would like to know what modifications you made to your Frontiersman. I have a nice Franklin myself and would love for it to smoke more reliably. It doesn't hit any land speed reacords so I can't say that mine is shaking in the turns, but how did you get yours to be more stable ? Thanks. Scott Brown sbrown@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2883	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: S-scale Airplanes

The hobby shop is full of 1-72 aircraft kits. should be close enough, methinks. cheers Scott Holm wrote: > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > There's been a lot of previous discussion about where S-scale (1/64) vehicles are available, but > where can S-sized airplanes of any kind be gotten? > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for a fun, easy way to stay in touch with family members? > http://www.onelist.com > Create a ONElist community just for your family! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2884	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Gabe and other Musings

I stand corrected on the missing piece for the repro Gabes. When talking with the "manufacturer" (really, a combiner of parts) of these repros, I forgot which parts he told me was in short supply. He indicated that it was the top lamp assembly. He also indicated he is looking for a source of the light banks for the lighted tower as well. It must be my "old-timer's" disease. Oh well, they are three things that happen with old age: 1. You begin to lose your memory 2. 3. ---sorry, but I cannot remeber the other two!!! :<) On other notes, I commend Chris for his comments. Although I would like to see more AF at the local TCA meets, there is no way that I could fathom having to look over more S gauge than there is at York. I actually feel sorry for the 3-railers. They must be numb after two days. Picture a whole gymnasium full of AF and other S gauge. There is at least that much at each York. That is more than enough for me, and enough to stimulate good competition as well as providing the buyer with a lot of options. Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2885	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: With regrets for the outburst

So you could obviously do it better and cheeper, a few months ago, it was someone who knew that brass models could be produced for just a few hundred dollars. Accomplishments count a great deal more than words, these postings sound like a baseball bat struck on an empty 55 gallon drum. It is easy to be a expert with someone elses investment, if you don't like the SHS offerings buy something else. Ken Zieska

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2886	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: automatic switching

Doc: the circuit you describe should be easy to create with Flyer switches and 2 track trips. Probably several people on this list have done it. I'll hope one of them pops up and gives the details. If not, we can figure it out together off list. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2887	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: With regrets for the outburst

First of all the prices I quoted are prices for molds that I have bought in other scales and I have made a slight adjustment for the larger size. I personally think Don Thompson is one of three or four mfgers who really care about S scale. The best thing he did was to get away from AM. So I am not knocking Don. I just think he could make things a little different to help a modeler "Kit bash". But it leaves a hole for me to fill. Larry Ken Zieska wrote: > From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...> > > So you could obviously do it better and cheeper, a few months ago, it > was someone who knew that brass models could be produced for just a few > hundred dollars. Accomplishments count a great deal more than words, > these postings sound like a baseball bat struck on an empty 55 gallon > drum. It is easy to be a expert with someone elses investment, if you > don't like the SHS offerings buy something else. > > Ken Zieska > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Attention Star Wars fans! > http://www.onelist.com > ONElist is the best place for your Star Wars list! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2888	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: automatic switching

There are AF track trips that actuate when a train draws current withinan isolated block. these could be set to throw a turnout, thus powering one block and isolating the other. The blocks are set up on the 2 sides of a passing siding. Now if someone can just remember the part # of the relays and then find out who has some. Alternatively, at Paul Yorke's site there is a description of how to build a track trip. Jarcho wrote: > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > Doc: the circuit you describe should be easy to create with Flyer switches > and 2 track trips. Probably several people on this list have done it. > I'll hope one of them pops up and gives the details. If not, we can figure > it out together off list. Tom Jarcho > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ONElist: bringing the world together. > http://www.onelist.com > Join today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2889	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 223...."S-Scale Airplanes"

To Scott Holm. Scott, ARll makes lots of 1/72 scale plastic models of all vintages. They are quite excellent and I have two of them on my layout with the Plasticville Airport buildings. An ageless Beechcraft Bonanza and a Cessna Skymaster. They make military planes too. Good luck and have fun building them. 1/72 scale is very good with S-Scale. Steve Blackburn..RMHR, TCA, NASG Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2890	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/4/1999
Subject: Planes, Trains and Automobiles

Regarding 1/64 planes, I recently saw in a K-Mart some small airplanes amongst the die-cast vehicles. The single engine (Cessna?, Piper?) planes looked real close to 1/64. Trouble is, when the prototype becomes bigger, the model stays the same size and just changes scale. I think this is for play ease. The kid's hands are small so they keep he toys small. Anyway, these were blister packed airplanes, not kits. Doc wants to know how to get two trains to automatically alternate a run around the oval from parallel sidings. In the bad old Flyer days this trick was performed with track trips and the current lockout button on a pair of switches. You'll also need fiber pins to keep the variable post rail isolated across the switches. Set the switches for 2 train operation. Follow the AF manual instructions for using track trips to control switches. When train 1 goes all the way into siding A, far enough for it's caboose to clear, it closes the trip which throws both switches to siding B, energizing that track and sending train 2 on a circuit of the loop. When 2 gets all the way into B, it causes the switche to flip to A again and the process is repeated. The track trips, cantankerous little devils designed by a man named Murphy, who also is known for the law that bears his name, have to be set to trip only under the weight of a locomotive and be insensitive to car weight. No double headers, no heavy cars. This whole deal can be refined a little by dividing the siding block with fiber pins so that a short section of 2 or 3 lengths of the head end of each siding is killed by the head end switch. Leave the tail end switch in single train operation and don't isolate it. Put the trips only as far as needed into the siding to let the train clear from the tail end. This set-up will keep caboose or passenger lights lit in the waiting train and will start the waiting train even before the running train has come to a complete stop. As you understand the and/or logic, further refinements will come to you. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo P.S.: In my post about groups and magazines, please change "Most of the 'S' organizations stress scale over Flyer" to "Most of the 'S' publications stress scale over Flyer". Thank you.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2891	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Ordinary Hoppers

> For the NASG convention, the PS-2 hoppers seem pretty ordinary, and, > unless one models the Midwest, not too likely to appeal; to anyone out of > the area I would like to give a plug for ordinary hoppers. When I was a kid, I liked AF better than L because it was more realistic. When I went shopping the after-Christmas sales, I wanted red boxcars because that is what I mostly saw on real trains. There is obviously room in any train of any era for a few unusual rolling stock pieces, but by definition, most of your rollling stock IS ordinary. If most of it was unusual, then, it would not be unusual, it would be.... ordinary! According to Don T a few days ago, the 2 bay MStL hopper was used for cement, so probly did not stray a lot, but the 3 bay was used for grain. Since the Great Lakes and the Mississippi were frozen over during the winter, the export grain had to move by rail to one of the coasts. Soooooooooooo, it seems logical to me that grain cars from the central states would have been seen around the country. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm suspect it was not rare. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2892	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: PS-1

That is all GOOD news Keith. The more different it is, the better, from the point of view of making more desirable, more salable. On Tue, 04 May 1999 08:33:27 -0700 Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> writes: >Hi Ted, > >I wish it was as easy as changing ends on a PRS AAR boxcar to make a >PS-1 or I would have done it already. Besides the "washboard" ends, >PS-1s had distinct roofs, side sills, and wall panels. In HO, these >details are important but can be fudged a bit as Accurail did with its >40-foot PS-1. I didn't even notice the problems with the wrong number >of side panels until someone pointed it out to me. However, the symmetrical >3'5" roof panels and the fish belly side sills are just as much a part >of the PS-1 as are the ends. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> From: mhrreast@... >> >> Hi Keith, >> >> I saw your PS-1 comment in the Dispatch. I don't >> remember this comment from the e-mail list. >> >> I agree Keith, it would be nice to have a PS-1. >> I am concerned though whether there are enough >> people who think that it is enough different from >> the dreadnought end cars to support production. >> I suspect the most viable method is if PacRail >> could put PS-1 ends on their 40 and 50 cars, similar to >> how they offered an alternate style roof for some 40' cars. >> >> Do you know, are the sides and roofs the same for >> a PS-1 as for other PacRail cars? Since PacRail was >> willing to do a different roof, which I suspect was much >> less used than PS ends, they should be able to do the >> PS ends. Seems to me the market for PS ends should >> be much greater than the market for the alternate >> (Hutchins?) roof was. >> >> Ted Larson >> Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division >> http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html >> ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2893	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: 1890's train - -Franklin mods

I received several request for a description of the mods I made. I thought they had been posted, but couldn't find them. I'm on the road (was catching my flight when I sent my note on this yesterday) so here's a brief summary from memory. Smoke: The original design depends on the tow-bar for electrical connection to the tender. I added a separate soft black wire wound a few times around the other tender-to-engine leads. Solder one end to the point where one a smoke unit lead is connected to the frame, and the other end to the correct truck or reverse unit connection. Without the unit in front of me I believe its the one with contact to the base rail. This ensures continuous electrical connection and reliable smoke generation. High speed stability: The short wheelbase and light front-end of this engine in combination with its energy and speed causes it to occasionally hop off the track, especially when exiting a curve or curving through compound switches. I added a pilot spring, and some weights under the cow catcher. The weights are a stack of washers (start with a large and thick one on the bottom and put progressively thinner smaller washers on top so they fit in under the cow catcher.) Once you get the right stack configuration, ZapAGap them together. Place the stack in under the cow catcher, and hold them in place using aluminized duct tape across the bottom of the cow catcher trimmed along the edges and folded up (~1/4") along the back edge.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2894	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Ordinary Hoppers

Ted has a good point, I have lots of IC reefers, as I remember, as a kid, trains of similar cars (actually PFE's) and they're usually CHEAP! at train shows. Even though Western Pacific has been gone at least 10 years now, I still see trains of WP covered hoppers at times here. Trouble is, few of us have layouts large enough to equate to the "real" world, so we like to run shorter trains, with colorful consists. Nothing wrong with that! We *are* having fun, aren't we??? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2895	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?

lawrence jackman wrote: > You missed the best one, put aot by Bill Wade > Larry I'm afraid you lost me on this one. what's put out by Bill Wade? -- Jerry Riechert riecherg@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2896	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Last Call

S Friends-- Thanks for all the inquiries and the purchases from the sale of this AF collection. Some prices have been reduced for this "last call," then the remaining items will shortly go on auction. For detailed descriptions and terms, send for list to: borj@... OR jeichmann@... YourS, John Eichmann Bill Sandrus RMHR, Boise, Idaho =================== 20550 Franklin Set (88; 20; 30; 40), E/E-, $260 740 Handcar, VG+, $45 803 Santa Fe "The Chief," tuscan boxcar, E-, $35 4-9701 Rock Island, blue boxcar, E+, $38 925 Gulf tank, cast chassis, silver, E-, $24 925 Gulf tank, cast chassis, silver, VG+, $21 736 MP Operating stock car, red plastic, CKC, VG+, $40 944 Industrial Brownhoist Crane Car, VG++, $59 945 Work & Boom (Work Caboose), gray/tuscan, E, $42 24579 IC Multipurpose Bulkhead flatcar (3 loads), tuscan, E+, $195 640 AF hopper, gray plastic, VG+, $7 921 CB&Q hopper, tuscan, w/coal load, VG++, $24 4-9204 Southern hopper, light gray, NIB, $40 24127 Monon gondola, light gray, VG++, $16 638 AF red caboose, VG, $6 806 AFL red caboose, E, $11 24636 AFL red caboose, "Radio Equipped," E, $10 24636 AFL red caboose, E, $10 4-9400 Chessie Bay Window caboose, NIB, $30 612 Freight/Passenger Station with Crane, lighted, VG, $125 8B 100-watt transformer, VG+, $26 706 Remote Uncoupler with Button, VG+, $6 730 Bumper, green plastic, E, $14 M3290 Gilbert AF Instruction Book (1954), VG, $5 Plasticville Dairy Barn/Silo, E, $11 Marx #416 4-Floodlight Tower, E-, $25 Marx Crane Gantry, E-, $25 Marx #424 Radio Control Tower, lighted, E-, $25

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2897	From: jdoran	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: auto switch

If I use a track trip, wont that keep power on the switch coil continuously? Seems like I need a momentary contact. Doc

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2898	From: kelvin white	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: With regrets for the outburst

In message <372FC207.995A7A02@...>, lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> writes >From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > >First of all the prices I quoted are prices for molds that I have bought in >other scales and I have made a slight adjustment for the larger size. I >personally think Don Thompson is one of three or four >mfgers who really care about S scale. The best thing he did was to get away >from AM. So I am not knocking Don. I just think he could make things a >little different to help a modeler "Kit bash". >But it leaves a hole for me to fill. >Larry > Hi Larry Were you responsible the S Scale America range of tankcars now owned by DPH? - likewise did you once propse a FEC Ortner hopper car? Its possible that I muddling you up with somebody else.... and what products are you suggesting undertaking? -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2899	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: auto switch

--- jdoran <jdoran@...> wrote: > If I use a track trip, wont that keep power on the switch coil continuously? Seems like I need > a momentary contact. The 697 trips will need to placed far enough back from the spot where the engine stops and adjusted such that they won't be activated by the lighter cars that are on it when the train is stopped. When adjusted properly, the engine will trip the trip, which will cause the switch to switch and cut off the power to the track ahead and stop the engine far enough from the trip to not be tripping it! _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2900	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Chrome Stripping

Since the list has had all these Paint Stripping tips. Can anyone tell me the best way to remove the chrome off of the plastic engines & passenger cars and prep them for repainting. Also I am in need of the following items to complete some restorations. 1. Northern Tender for repaint 2. A 080 motor chassis with wheels 3 .The black base for a 583 crane ( the one the boom & cab sit on) 4. 2 ends for the #663 observaton car Thanks AL ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2901	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: auto switch

That is a problem if you use more modern AF switches. Actually the earliest Flyer switches were self turnoff after throwing. These are the 720, I think, as opposed to the 720A. They had a long switch machine cover as opposed to the newer square covers. Unfortunately these old switches are prone to base warpage, which affects track power switching, so be careful in selecting them. The old ones also have a dlifferent control button. > jdoran wrote: > > If I use a track trip, wont that keep power on the switch coil > continuously? Seems like I need a momentary contact. > > Doc -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2902	From: Boul, Lawrence	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Cheep (sic) Brass

> Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 21:49:50 -0500 > From: Ken Zieska <mhrr@...> > Subject: With regrets for the outburst > > So you could obviously do it better and cheeper, a few months ago, it > was someone who knew that brass models could be produced for just a few > hundred dollars. Accomplishments count a great deal more than words, > these postings sound like a baseball bat struck on an empty 55 gallon > drum. It is easy to be a expert with someone elses investment, if you > don't like the SHS offerings buy something else. > > Ken Zieska > > Ken - I believe I may be the object of the jibe about Cheap Brass - the cap certainly fits. You may choose to believe that it is just the booming of an empty 44 (imperial gallons here) drum, but in fact NO (NZR prototype, steam or diesel) S loco kit in NZ sells for more than US$300. I should qualify that and say that I am talking kits and that they are not all brass. There is admittedly a fair bit of white metal. I AM producing 100% brass kits, I DO know exactly what the costs are. I have no interest in the US prototype, so you are unlikely to see anything from me. That doesn't mean it isn't out there! Before the manufacturers of the list jump me: I am not passing judgement on the prices of US S scale equipment. Its your economy, and I'm not gonna tell you how to play in it. Do be aware though that the globe's axis does not run through NY and LA. It really is rather amazing what you can do yourself when you try - If you listen to the 'experts' everything is difficult. It is well known for example that it is impossible for bumble bees to fly. Fortunately they don't know that. Provocatively Lawrence

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2903	From: jdoran	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Scott's reply to auto switch

Yep, that might do it. I'm using 720A switches. Havn't seen any 720s for years. The track is laid and I think I've got some trips down there somewhere. I'll try it tonight or tommorrow. Thanks Doc

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2904	From: Dennis Back	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Self-turn-off after throw Switches

> Actually the > earliest Flyer switches were self turnoff after > throwing. These are the > 720, I think, as opposed to the 720A. They had a > long switch machine > cover as opposed to the newer square covers. The above is true...BUT....only the FIRST year of production (1946-47) 720 switches will self turn-off after throwing. The later (1947-49) 720 switches will NOT self turn-off after thowing, just like the 720A. Regard'S Dennis Miami _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2905	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?

it was written: > I'm afraid you lost me on this one. what's put out by Bill Wade? No, what's put out by who. Who's on first.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2906	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Tie Plants and Bells

Regarding tie treatment plants, someone quoted a reference on the web where you can input your topic of interest, and it will tell you what train magazines to look in. Also, I understand that NMRA provides this service; a point in favor of membership! Regarding Engine bells, now that I know that both types are usable on early diseasals, I'm looking at my GN reference material to see which location they use. > Sunrise Bells > S-108 Bell Frame Mount 2ea $3.50 > S-109 Bell Body/Cab Mount 2ea $3.50 This is what I can see in my photos. NW-5 top of hood RS-1 under walkway RS-3 top of hood GP-7 top of hood GP-9 w/dynamic break front of hood GP-9 top of hood SD-7,9 top of hood SDP-40 under walkway GP-30 under walkway Anybody know where the bell goes on F units? What about on EMD switchers? Looks like it is time to buy some bells! BTW, my reference says GN bought SD-45's in 1966 for the Empire Builder. (simplified orange and green scheme). They were re-painted into the "experimental" Big Sky Blue scheme. "Then they were re-painted into the "REAL" GN orange and green with gold striping, which is the way they lived happily ever after until this very day, still hauling the Empire Builder in its proper orange, green, and gold paint!" If someone produces the SD-45 in plastic, I'll buy one! Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2907	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Screen Saver

Hello friends, I just created a screen saver using web-shots screen saver toolkit. I am only licensed to give to family and friends. I consider all of you my friends so, unless you feel otherwise , help yourself. This is my first pass, it has 8 highrail images that I have shot of my layout and one sound file. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/scrensav/Setup1.exe Save it to your harddrive and run it. Let me know how you make out. (it is 1.3 meg, it took about 8 minutes to upload, your results may vary) -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2908	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Magazines/organizations?

S/Sn3 Modeling Guide Larry Jerry Riechert wrote: > From: Jerry Riechert <riecherg@...> > > lawrence jackman wrote: > > > You missed the best one, put aot by Bill Wade > > Larry > > I'm afraid you lost me on this one. what's put out by Bill Wade? > > -- > Jerry Riechert riecherg@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ONElist: bringing the world together. > http://www.onelist.com > Join today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2909	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: With regrets for the outburst

Yes I was S Scale America. I am back into HO scale at this time. I was talking about an ortner hopper but the guy that was going to make the mold got busy doing some thing else. Larry kelvin white wrote: > In message <372FC207.995A7A02@...>, lawrence jackman > <ljack70117@...> writes > >From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > > >First of all the prices I quoted are prices for molds that I have bought in > >other scales and I have made a slight adjustment for the larger size. I > >personally think Don Thompson is one of three or four > >mfgers who really care about S scale. The best thing he did was to get away > >from AM. So I am not knocking Don. I just think he could make things a > >little different to help a modeler "Kit bash". > >But it leaves a hole for me to fill. > >Larry > > > > Hi Larry > > Were you responsible the S Scale America range of tankcars now owned by > DPH? - likewise did you once propse a FEC Ortner hopper car? Its > possible that I muddling you up with somebody else.... and what products > are you suggesting undertaking? > -- > Kelvin White > Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2910	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: Re: Tie Plants and Bells

The website for the model-railroad magazine index is: http://207.5.46.132/tm.htm Dick Karnes mhrreast@... wrote: > From: mhrreast@... > > Regarding tie treatment plants, > someone quoted a reference on the web where you can > input your topic of interest, and it will tell you what train > magazines to look in.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2911	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: alan eisenhauer:chrome removal

The chrome plating used on american flyer trains can be removed by soaking in a 50/50 ammonia/water solution-overnight usually does the trick for me.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2912	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 4/20/1999
Subject: Re: alan eisenhauer:chrome removal

On Wed, 5 May 1999 22:34:09 EDT Toyguy5344@... writes: >From: Toyguy5344@... > >The chrome plating used on american flyer trains can be removed by >soaking in >a 50/50 ammonia/water solution-overnight usually does the trick for >me.-john >marganski > I have used bleach strait from the bottle to strip chrome of of model auto parts. It works very quickly. You might try it on a small part. Phil Randall ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2913	From: Brian Johns	Date: 5/5/1999
Subject: K-Line AF track curves

I've been out of town for a week or so -- I'm WAY behind with my email so I'm trying to get caught up. Many thanks to all who responded to my slightly embarrassing post about the K-Line 27" radius curves. My RR-Track software indicates "30 degrees" on the menu item you select to choose a standard curve. I just got "30" stuck in my mind and simply didn't THINK when I saw the comment about 27" radius K-Line curves...I'd spent a couple of hours trying to do something creative with stock AF track within a 4x8' space and was really wishing AF had made another curve radius for variety! In the meantime though...my AF trains must occupy a 4x8' world. Does anyone have any links to some web sites that would have some interesting and innovative ideas with what you can do within the confines of 4x8'?? Thanks, as always! -=[ Brian ]=-

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2914	From: Bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: stripping chrome

On the subject of chrome removal. These suggestions are both ok, but NEVER use ammonia and bleach together. They will combine and produce a poisonous gas. It's ok to use one or the other, but never mix them. Bill Frazier Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1999 03:01:19 -0500 From: Phil A Randall <ttscale@...> Subject: Re: alan eisenhauer:chrome removal On Wed, 5 May 1999 22:34:09 EDT Toyguy5344@... writes: >From: Toyguy5344@... > >The chrome plating used on american flyer trains can be removed by >soaking in >a 50/50 ammonia/water solution-overnight usually does the trick for >me.-john >marganski > I have used bleach strait from the bottle to strip chrome of of model auto parts. It works very quickly. You might try it on a small part. Phil Randall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2915	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: 4x8 layout CONTEST

>interesting and >innovative ideas with what you can do within the confines of 4x8'?? Sounds like a fun idea. Anybody on the list care to join in? I think we should have a little contest. The winner gets a free screen saver. The rules: 1) must fit on an 4x8 sheet of plywood 2) must use standard flyer radius (no flex) 3) extra points if you allow for future expansion Tips A: not all straight track needs to be 10 inches long. B: think 3 dimensionaly All ideas will be posted on S-Trains web site. If you don't have any computer tools, you can snail mail your entry to me at 7501 Springhaven Ave Indiantown Fl 34956 _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2916	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: stripping chrome

Ah, gee, and just when we were starting to have fun with the Chemistry set....... S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2917	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Another Chrome Removal

>ALLAN V EISENHAUR <aleisen@...> wrote: >Subject: Chrome Stripping >Can anyone tell me the best way to remove the chrome off of the plastic >engines & passenger cars and prep them for repainting. Allan, the same method I recommended the other day worked especially well for me in removing chrome from a junker plastic Silver Bullet. That is, soaking in a laundry detergent solution. Indeed, chrome comes off faster than paint, in big patches. Merely rub your thumb over the shell and watch it float off. It only took about 2-1/2 hours to come out clean as a whistle! I even used this method to strip the sheet-metal Silver Bullet tender of its chrome--that's the one I referred to when I said that you might get some light surface rust that will need to be cleaned with a Dremel wire brush. In my earlier post I failed to mention the primary reason I prefer this method, and that is that laundry detergent solution is safe and easy. Every household has it, it's cheap, and it won't fill plastic pores with petroleum-based material that might give you problems with repainting. In prepping for painting, just make sure you rinse thoroughly in clean water and let dry. Keep your fingers (oil) off the shell as much as possible, and rub it down with a clean, dry, soft cloth prior to applying your paint. Another tip for painting: make a simple shell holder out of a stiff wire coat hanger. Turn it upside down, straighten the hook for a handle, and bend the crosspiece of the hanger in toward the handle. The two ends of the hanger fit nicely inside the shell by the doors at either end of your cars. Bend the hanger just enough so that its width is slightly more that the length of the shell, and that will give you sufficient spring action to hold the car tightly as you paint. When drying between coats, I merely insert the straightened handle down into the vertical edge of a corrugated cardboard box. Hope this helps. John Eichmann Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers "Idaho's only STATEWIDE model railroading club" Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2918	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: K-Line AF track curves

Brian, > In the meantime though...my AF trains must occupy a 4x8' world. Does anyone > have any links to some web sites that would have some interesting and > innovative ideas with what you can do within the confines of 4x8'?? If you get any interesting pointers to 4x8 AF layouts or ideas, I'd appreciate if you could forward them to me. Jerry Riechert riecherg@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2919	From: J. Row	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: "Chrome" Is Not Chrome!

Hello fellow "S"ers! Thought you might like to know (just to have one more bit of trivia to keep track of) that the "chrome" on flyer equipment (original) is not chrome plating but rather "aluminum" plating. That's why "stuff" like ammonia, detergents, etc, take it off. Were it chrome, These wouldn't work nearly as well! I've had some Flyer "stuff" stripped and chromed (with chromium). If I was happy with the results, I'd tell you more but so far the results are less than impressive. One outfit that specializes in automotive rechroming of plastic parts (located in Michigan but I don't recall their name) chrome plated a previously aluminum plated Flyer passenger car for me and managed to also incorporate a couple of hairs from the plating technician into the plating on the side of the car. Looks terrible!!! They also plated an A-B-A set for my brother. This was and "extra rail" lash up that he wanted to repaint for a special road name. It came back with simply beautiful chrome on the surfaces but the bodies were mangled beyond reasonable recognition. They apparently had sprayed a lacquer over the plating to protect it then packed it carefully into plastic bagging before the solvent was all gone. A few days in transit and the solvent softened the plastic thus allowing the stresses to releive them selves. When my bro saw it, he releived himself!!! We haven't experimented further with this approach. I have a set of AT&SF PA-PB-PA from AM which are plated and painted and they're gorgeous. Somewhat artificial in appearance but really beautiful! Keep in mind that the original prototypes were aluminum and tended to tarnish with age. The problem is that Flyer didn't know (nor do I) how to allow ours to tarnish just 1/64th as much as the "real" so that it looks realistic. The older Flyer stuff has tarnished 64 times too much! Now you know more than you probably wanted to know! Right? Jim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2920	From: Neil Trump	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: 785 coal loader parts

With all this talk about repro accessories etc. is there any news about possible parts for 785 coal loaders. I'm looking for the clam shell (like others) plus the cart, roof, electrical cord and the button controller. Apart from the missing parts the rest is OK and does function. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2921	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: "Chrome" Is Not Chrome!

Interesting trivia! Also, the flyer stuff was clear coated with lacquer, I've been told, which is one reason for the golden hue that it develops. BTW, the original RR stuff was Stainless, not aluminum! I've polished plenty of it already (trying to fix a previous "fix" by a volunteer with a grinder in hands -- AAAAUGH!!). Nickel plating would make a more authentic sheen, but it oxidizes over time (Chrome is a bluish clear plating over nickel, which protects the nickel, but changes the color a bit too). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2922	From: John Foley	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Del-Aire

Hi Folks Frank Titman, John Bortz and many others have been using Del-Aire to throw their trunouts [switches] I now use and they are Great!! check them out at. Great for Flyer, Hirail & Scale. http://delaire.com John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2923	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: Stripping chrome, & rechroming

<<Can anyone tell me the best way to remove the chrome off of the plastic engines & passenger cars and prep them for repainting. >> Re: rechroming of shells. Rechroming cost is $35 per shell, plus $5 return shipping per order. You may strip them first. That's easily done with Easy-Off Oven Cleaner (original formula, yellow can......not the extra-strength version). 20-25 minutes in that will remove virtually all paint and chrome. May need a 2nd application, or may not. Full-strength ammonia works fine too, but takes longer. Soak overnight, rinse & brush. May need to repeat. Sand/steel-wool any scratches, pit-marks, etc, because we do none of that. What you send is what you get back! In fact, however, we encourage you to let us do the stripping so that we know it is done in a manner compatible with the rechroming process. The cost to do so is only an additional $5 per shell. No additional surface-prep is included, however (i.e, sanding, etc)......just the stripping.. If your own stripping/cleaning proves to be insufficient or incompatible, there is an extra $5 per shell charge for us to chemically finish it. Rechroming takes 4-6 weeks from receipt. There is NO guarantee, but we've had 100% satisfaction with the results on Gilbert shells! Passenger shells.....Silver Bullet boilers and tenders.......caboose shells!.....Mailcars to add to the Silver Bullet set!......etc....etc. Have NEVER had a destroyed car, and NEVER had a dissatisfied customer ! MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 66-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 48 page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2924	From: Dave Heine	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: Del-Aire

Hey John, you forgot to mention that they also work great in Sn3. I've been using them also. FWIW, I even converted some turnouts that had slow motion electric machines to Del-Aire. Dave Heine Sn3/Sn2 modeler > From: John Foley <foley164@...> > > Hi Folks > Frank Titman, John Bortz and many others have been using > Del-Aire to throw their trunouts [switches] I now use and they are > Great!! check them out at. Great for Flyer, Hirail & Scale. > > http://delaire.com > > John >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2925	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: A.F. Database Application

A while back someone asked about an inventory program so they could track their trains. A few years ago I had developed an application that worked quite well, but it needed to be cleaned up a little. After several months of work and testing, I have finally completed the project. I find it quite useful for several of its functions. It is Windows based, sorry Mac fans, I don't have a Mac. For a brief overview/intro, go to: http://members.aol.com/trains16/page/index.htm If you have trouble reaching the page let me know and I will e-mail you a text file. Thanks.... Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2926	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: Re: F-unit bells

Hi Ted, F-units had bells behind the pilot for the most part but of coarse there are exceptions. Most EMD switchers (http://www.myriad.net/lruback/cb2204.jpg) have bells mounted on top of the hood between the radiator and the front stack. Again, check your prototype for after market customizing. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle mhrreast@... wrote: > > Anybody know where the bell goes on F units? > What about on EMD switchers? > Looks like it is time to buy some bells! >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2927	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: a little more on plasticville airport,and 1/72 vintage a/c

plasticville's control tower and hangar kits are a generic-probably WPA-style of airport building that is still extant in smaller communities.Sikorsky Airport in Stratford,CT has two of the p-ville type hangar.the old tower was replaced with a taller, more contemporary one about 15 yrs. ago. a little bit of weathering on 12"=1' scale info: the hangar nearest the windsock bar has the cursive "CURTISS" logo show thru as paint spalling off of bare concrete about 5 years into each repaint! get the Glencoe kit of the Curtiss condor,do it as a landplane in the United livery,and you've recreated a common East coast sight in the mid-30's.There is a photo of a condor from United in front of the afore-mentioned hangar,wearing it's "CURTISS" logo, in the 1935 UA yearbook-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2928	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/6/1999
Subject: F unit bells

Ted, Usually F unit bells are mounted up behind the pilot and above the truck on the fireman's side. Even on the real ones you have to crane your neck to see them! It's a lot of fun to mount one, takes two guys, one and a half to hold the bell, and a half to get the mounting nuts started! Oh, that's right, you're in S gauge, might not be as heavy!<G> Lots of fun to get in there to service the air ringer too. Oh, EMD switchers, can be almost anywhere, depending on the railroad, the local roundhouse foreman's whims, etc. etc. I've seen roof mounts, under deck mounts, hood mounts, etc. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2929	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Layout contest / Volunteers

I am expanding the 4x8 layout contest to include all types of 'S' track. Maybe some of you 'Narrow' minded folks will show us the reason you like Sn2, 3, 3.5, 4 The new S-helper track was also mentioned. Like I said before, if you need help getting your idea into an electronic form I will be glad to help you. Warning I am less than week away from my 3 week vacation to Alaska, so the list will be on autopilot....Unless... Any volunteer list coordinators? Job Requirement: You must be familiar with the Onelist Member Services site, and willing to work for free. Any takers? -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2930	From: Rodney.Booth@xxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Delaire

When using Delaire switch machines what do you use for an air source? Rodney

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2931	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: train watching

Does anyone know a good place to watch trains at work in the DC/Baltimore area? Is Camden yards anything more than a Metro/MARC station (or ball park)? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2932	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Re: Coal loader parts

In a message dated 5/7/99 5:05:33 AM, you wrote: <<With all this talk about repro accessories etc. is there any news about possible parts for 785 coal loaders. I'm looking for the clam shell (like others) plus the cart, roof, electrical cord and the button controller. Apart from the missing parts the rest is OK and does function. >> We carry the roof, the tinsel-wire to power the clamshell, and the control-button. Clamshells, regrettably, are N/A. Have to check on the cart....we have the 752 Seaboard 4-wheel "trolley" cart, but I can't recall offhand if it is identical to the 785 trolley. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2933	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Delaire

Rodney wrote: When using Delaire switch machines what do you use for an air source? Hi Rodney, the air supply for Delaire cylinders ("machines" / "motors") can be determined by the number of cylinders you will be operating. For instance, if you're going to try just one for starters, Delaire offers "Air-in-a-Can" like that offered for air brush spray painting with the necessary connectors. They also offer a air supply tank and of course an air regulator/filter and all the necessary fittings and hose for that. This tank will of course last much longer and can be refilled at a local service station air pump or it can be connected to a personal air compressor. As with any pneumatic operated tools or equipment including hobby tools like an air brush (cylinders), it is always recommended to filter the air to remove dirt and moisture at the supply point to protect your equipment and avoid problems later. Dave Bailey, MPSM Advocate No one is listening...until you make a mistake

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2934	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fw: some good thoughts]]

Roger Hinds wrote: As I was reading the following, I was wondering how many answers could be train related. I think you will find Many answers could be related to this hobby. FOR THE NEW YEAR 1999 FOR GOOD LUCK AND GOOD LIFE. THE FOLLOWING IS A NEPALESE GOOD LUCK TANTRA TOTEM This tantra totem has been sent to you for good luck. It has been sent around the world ten times so far. You will receive good luck within four days of relaying this tantra totem. Send copies to people you think need good luck. Don't send money as fate has no price. Do not keep this message. The tantra totem must leave your hands in 96 hours. You will get a very pleasant surprise. This is true, even if you are not superstitious. INSTRUCTIONS FOR LIFE 1. Give people more than they expect and do it cheerfully. 2. Memorize your favorite poem. 3. Don't believe all you hear, spend all you have or sleep all you want. 4. When you say, "I love you", mean it. 5. When you say, "I'm sorry", look the person in the eye. 6. Be engaged at least six months before you get married. 7. Believe in love at first sight. 8. Never laugh at anyone's dreams. People who don't have dreams don't have much. 9. Love deeply and passionately. You might get hurt but it's the only way to live life completely. 10. In disagreements, fight fairly. No name calling. 11. Don't judge people by their relatives. 12. Talk slowly but think quickly. 13. When someone asks you a question you don't want to answer, smile and ask, "Why do you want to know?" 14. Remember that great love and great achievements involve great risk. 16. Say "bless you" when you hear someone sneeze. 17. When you lose, don't lose the lesson. 18. Remember the three R's: Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions. 19. Don't let a little dispute injure a great friendship. 20. When you realize you've made a mistake, take immediate steps to correct it. 21. Smile when picking up the phone. The caller will hear it in your voice. 22. Marry a man/woman you love to talk to. As you get older, their conversational skills will be as important as any other. 23. Spend some time alone. 24. Open your arms to change, but don't let go of your values. 25. Remember that silence is sometimes the best answer. 26. Read more books and watch less TV. 27. Live a good, honorable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll get to enjoy it a second time. 28. Trust in God but lock your car. 29. A loving atmosphere in your home is so important. Do all you can to create a tranquil harmonious home. 30. In disagreements with loved ones, deal with the current situation. Don't bring up the past. 31. Read between the lines. 32. Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality. 33. Be gentle with the earth. 34. Pray. There's immeasurable power in it. 35. Never interrupt when you are being flattered. 36. Mind your own business. 37. Don't trust a man/woman who doesn't close his/her eyes when you kiss. (If your eyes are shut how do you know if theirs are or not?) (OK - - - You can open them for a moment.) 38. Once a year, go someplace you've never been before. 39. If you make a lot of money, put it to use helping others while you are living. That is wealth's greatest satisfaction. 40. Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a stroke of luck. 41. Learn the rules then break some. 42. Remember that the best relationship is one where your love for each other is greater than your need for each other. 43. Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it. 44. Remember that your character is your destiny. 45. Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon. Now, here's the FUN part! Send this to at least 5 people and your life will improve. 0-4 people: Your life will improve slightly. 5-9 people: Your life will improve to your liking. 9-14 people: You will have at least 5 surprises in the next 3 weeks 15 and above: Your life will improve drastically and everything you ever dreamed of will begin to take shape.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2935	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Re: Delaire

I have a small diaphram air compressor I use for my air brush. It's fairly quiet, and just plugs into a house outlet. It can develop 35 pounds pressure, would this be enough? The unit is quiet enough that we use it at mall shows for our Live Steam club. I have a model mill engine, about a 1x2" cylinder (yeah, it's not really small, but one person can pick it up, carefully) we put on a sheet of plywood on top of a good card table, drape the table, and set the compressor under the table. A long air hose (for reserve capacity) goes up to the engine. The compressor makes just enough air to keep the engine turning over, barely! The point is, it's right under the table and isn't noticed above the usual mall noise, at home it probably would be, although an enclosure would cut even that noise out. I have no idea how expensive they are, I got mine used and have had it for 20 years now! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2936	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Re: Delaire

Hi David, Ummm... just. Delaire works best around 30psi. Probably a small reservoir tank would be a good idea to ad to the system (like your long air hose you mentioned). This way you have a volume supply in reserve to use while the compressor replenishes the tank. keep in mind that one is not usually throwing turnouts continuously and that the air volume used per cylinder is very small. Dave B. -----Original Message----- From: David Dewey <djdewey@...> To: PatnDave <patndave@...>; S-trains <S-trains@onelist.com> Date: Friday, May 07, 1999 8:28 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Delaire I have a small diaphram air compressor I use for my air brush. It's fairly quiet, and just plugs into a house outlet. It can develop 35 pounds pressure, would this be enough? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2937	From: Dave Heine	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Re: Delaire

> From: <Rodney.Booth@...> > > When using Delaire switch machines what do you use for an air source? > > Rodney > I use a small tank with a regulator, etc. I fill it with a small tankless compressor I have for filling tires, etc. You could also fill the tank at a local gas station with an air source. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2938	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 5/7/1999
Subject: Thanks

Thanks for everyone who sent reponses to my question about getting a 770 baggage loader to work better. I have not had a chance to try them yet but printed all of them. I appologize for the lateness of this response. I wrote several days earlier but my letter was just returned. I think I made a mistake in the address. Thanks again. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2939	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: P-Oed with S

Hi Don, You thought right Don, I am, quite "discouraged" with s SCALE. But any more I figure I'll just go with flow -'S'low as it is. I'll continue the usual "begging" along with the other MPSM people and support S with purchases of what's usable for me, such as the "sort-of modern diesel". I like your comparison: <" It is funny that AC Gilbert could make PA's and GP-9s when they were only a few years old, yet today we do not make much that isn't at least 30 years old."> It's sad that S is permanently stuck to the nostalgia thing. Yes, I know the story well, 'we' have to go with and satisfy the masses to be profitable but still, I can't understand why we modern/contemporary modelers can't so much as get an occasional (bi-yearly?)contemporary freight car run between the nostalgic stuff. Dave Bailey, MPSM Advocate No one is listening...until you make a mistake

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2940	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Seaboard coaler

I would like to thank all of you that helped me get the motor of my 752 wired correctly. (the coil had a broken wire) It now runs both directions, however, the clam shell does not close upon pushing down the red button. I have replaced the wiring, but it still does not work. Anyone have a check list of things to do to eliminate problems on these? It will be a neat item to operate if I ever get it running properly. Any help would be appreciated! Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2941	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

I don't see the original part of this query but speaking of modern locos did American Models say anything at the spring spree about the SD60. If we had that we'd be part way toward an SD70-SD75. Also what about seeing if Tom Hodgson would do a modern shell (even a GP40) that we could put on AM chassis. cheers PatnDave wrote: > Hi Don,You thought right Don, I am, quite "discouraged" with s > SCALE. But any more I figure I'll just go with flow -'S'low as it is. > I'll continue the usual "begging" along with the other MPSM people and > support S with purchases of what's usable for me, such as the "sort-of > modern diesel". I like your comparison: <" It is funny that AC > Gilbert could make PA's and GP-9s when they were only a few years old, > yet today we do not make much that isn't at least 30 years old."> It's > sad that S is permanently stuck to the nostalgia thing. Yes, I know > the story well, 'we' have to go with and satisfy the masses to be > profitable but still, I can't understand why we modern/contemporary > modelers can't so much as get an occasional (bi-yearly?)contemporary > freight car run between the nostalgic stuff. Dave Bailey, MPSM > Advocate > > No one is listening...until you make a mistake >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2942	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

OOPS! In my previous post below I used the term <(bi-yearly?)>. I meant to say "semi-annually"- or once every other year. Guess I was thinking one thing and wrote another - although that wouldn't be bad either! -----Original Message----- From: PatnDave <patndave@...> To: S-trains <S-trains@onelist.com> Date: Saturday, May 08, 1999 7:21 AM Subject: [S-Trains] P-Oed with S Hi Don, You thought right Don, I am, quite "discouraged" with s SCALE. But any more I figure I'll just go with flow -'S'low as it is. I'll continue the usual "begging" along with the other MPSM people and support S with purchases of what's usable for me, such as the "sort-of modern diesel". I like your comparison: <" It is funny that AC Gilbert could make PA's and GP-9s when they were only a few years old, yet today we do not make much that isn't at least 30 years old."> It's sad that S is permanently stuck to the nostalgia thing. Yes, I know the story well, 'we' have to go with and satisfy the masses to be profitable but still, I can't understand why we modern/contemporary modelers can't so much as get an occasional (bi-yearly?)contemporary freight car run between the nostalgic stuff. Dave Bailey, MPSM Advocate No one is listening...until you make a mistake

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2943	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Modern S

I just want to add my vote for modern items in S. I have this fantasy of going down to my local SP tracks with a camera and photographing an entire freight train and then creating that train in S. I could decorate appropriately, but, of course, much of what I would photograph is not available in S. If we want to interest future generations in the hobby, we have to provide what the kids actually SEE, not what WE remember. -Daniel Neumayer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2944	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: Modern S

I agree with getting some modern S scale items out there. I model the railway in Newfoundland, Canada (Sn42)which really wasn't a modern railway anyway. But finding a 40ft flat would be nice or a modern steel caboose. Just having that option would be great. Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2945	From: jdoran	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: auto switch

Well I tried the track trip idea. When the engine hits the trip the switch throws and the train stops like it's been shot right on the trip. The switch coil hums away rapidly heading towards crispy critter land. I wonder if it's possible to rewire the 720A like the 720 was with the self turnoff coil. The early ones anyway. Unfortunately I don't have a wiring diagram of the 46 switch and I havn't seen a 720 for years. anybody have any ideas? Doc

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2946	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Layout Contest Update

We have our first submission in the 4x8 layout contest. Your submissions will be added to 'The Contest Page'. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/layout/contest.htm Send your's in today! -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2947	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: auto switch

Doc -- there are at least two things that can be done to help your auto switch circuit. 1. You don't say which kind of track trips you are using. If you are using the #670 electromagnetic trip, here's something you can try. All trains must travel in the same direction (for now). The switches will cut off power to either of the two inside most rails of the four rails in the two sidings. Have insulated track pins in these two rails about 4 track sections behind the switch at the loco end of the sidings. This divides each siding into 2 parts, one powered thru one switch and one thru the other. Also put insulated pins in these rails about one track section behind the switch. Connect the two #670 track trips across these last insulating pins. With this setup, the track trip will fire when the loco gets to the three track section, because due to the insulating pins current is only getting to it through the switch. When the track trip throws the switch, no more current will be going through the switch rail and trip, the track trip will de-activate, and the switch motor will get no more power. Also, since the trips use up some power, the train will slow down as it enters the three track section . Hope this makes sense -- if not I'll be glad to draw you a diagram. The position of the insulating pins may have to be adjusted somewhat by experimentation. 2. This is an idea that I plan to discuss in my next Roundhouse but one. I have described in the last few Roundhouse columns how to implant a small roller switch in a Flyer track switch and how to use it in some automatic circuits. This is also discussed in Tom Barker's Greenberg's American Flyer repair and operating manual. I have not had a chance to try the following idea yet, but it should work if you provide enough power to the switches to fire them instantly. In this case, if you install a small roller switch in one of the switches, you can use it to on/off a 12V.D.C. power source to a double or 4 pole relay from radio shack, depending on the position of the switch, straight or curved. You can use the relay to cut off power to the switch motors once the switches are thrown. Most relays have 3 terminals per pole: C (common), NO (normally open, unconnected when the relay coil is off, connected to C when it is on), and NC (normally connected to C when the relay coil is off, unconnected when it is on). Depending on how you mount the roller switch, it will probably be off when the switch is curved and on (pressed down) when the switch is straight. Pass the wires to the switch motors through the relay contacts: the red through C and NO on one pole, and the green thru the C and NC on another pole. Thus, when the switch is in curved position the power to the red switch motor will be cut off, and when the switch is in straight position, power to the green motor will be cut off. For other readers: it seems to me that a similar circuit could be built to protect the coils of a Flyer Semaphore using a 4 pole relay. Instead of supplying power from the white wire to the stop section, the white wire could be used to fire the relay, since a DC current can be superimposed over an AC current on the same wire. One pole of the relay could be used to control track power to the stopping section, and two poles could be used to protect the two semaphore coils, as the switch motor coils are protected in the above circuit. I would appreciate any informed feedback from other S Listers who have had some experience with circuits like this. I also plan to consult several people who are not on the list by snail mail, and in about 2 weeks should have more info. 'S'urely this problem can be solved. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2948	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: auto switch

In a message dated 5/8/99 3:00:25 PM, jarcho@... writes: << there are at least two things that can be done to help your auto switch circuit. >> Dear Tom, Doc, and Friends, If one is not insistent on using all original Gilbert bits to accomplish block and automatic switch control, the folks at Dallee Electronic, Inc. have the necessary modern circuit boards to perform current sensing, block and signal control, and switch activation in AC or DC, I believe. You might want to given them a try at www.dallee.com, 717-661-7041. There are now purpose-built electronics available to take a lot of the pain out of these kinds of projects for two rail track systems, including reverse loops. Hoping this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2949	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: auto switch

Dallee makes excellent electronic devices but they are expensive,sensitive, and require a separate special power source. A simple circuit like this should be feasible without resorting to them. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2950	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

I would not look for any thing from American Models to be very accurate. The GP35 he did is not a great GP35. It is not good in correct detail. I heard that Tom Marsh was not going to do SD60 in brass in S scale when he heard AM was going to do it but when he saw a sample of the AM model he went a head and did brass SD60s. I have mot seen the plastic one but I have heard it is nothing to get excited about. Two people that are doing nice things are S helper service and Des Plains. Larry Alex Binkley wrote: > I don't see the original part of this query but > speaking of modern locos did American Models say > anything at the spring spree about the SD60. If > we had that we'd be part way toward an > SD70-SD75. Also what about seeing if Tom Hodgson > would do a modern shell (even a GP40) that we > could put on AM chassis. > cheers > > PatnDave wrote: > >> Hi Don,You thought right Don, I am, quite >> "discouraged" with s SCALE. But any more I >> figure I'll just go with flow -'S'low as it >> is. I'll continue the usual "begging" along >> with the other MPSM people and support S with >> purchases of what's usable for me, such as the >> "sort-of modern diesel". I like your >> comparison: <" It is funny that AC Gilbert >> could make PA's and GP-9s when they were only >> a few years old, yet today we do not make much >> that isn't at least 30 years old."> It's sad >> that S is permanently stuck to the nostalgia >> thing. Yes, I know the story well, 'we' have >> to go with and satisfy the masses to be >> profitable but still, I can't understand why >> we modern/contemporary modelers can't so much >> as get an occasional (bi-yearly?)contemporary >> freight car run between the nostalgic stuff. >> Dave Bailey, MPSM Advocate >> >> No one is listening...until you make a mistake >> >> > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2951	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

Hi Alex, I get P-O'ed with S too! However, If I didn't get P-O'ed, I would never get any modeling done. I think those of us that have chosen to hoe the S "scale" row enjoy a good challenge. If I were back in HO, I'd be hocking everything the family has to buy one of everything coming out from Life-Like, Kato, and Atlas. S scale keeps me humble yet frustrated enough to make things happen. I think most of you feel the same way too or you wouldn't be in this scale and on this list. Next time you get P-O'ed with S, jot down a note about what's doing it to you and save it some place where you can find it again. You'll be surprised when you later find the note that one of three things will happen: 1. A manufacturer will have filled the void, or improved the part or model that you where P-O'ed about. 2. You'll have figured out a better way to get or fix what got you P-O'ed in the first place. 3. You'll have forgotten all about what you were P-O'ed about in the first place and now be P-O'ed about something new. Now, you all are probably saying, "where does this guy get off telling me about how I'll think." Quite simply, IT'S A HOBBY! You know, the thing you do to stop being P-O'ed about work and the family. Don't let the lack of something keep you from enjoying the hobby -- adapt, adopt, improvise, and move on. I got out of S scale once before because "nothing new" was coming out. However, I longingly window-shopped all of the new S scale offerings by S helper service, American Models, and S Scale of America while I claimed to be happy in the smaller scales. Of coarse, it also didn't help having Ron Sebastian of Des Plaines Hobbies parading all of the new S stuff under my nose! Anyway, my point is sometimes you don't know how good you've got it until you don't have anything. Stay P-O'ed but don't give up. We'd miss you but it's YOU that would lose in the long run. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2952	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: Modern S

I just want to add AMEN to Dan's comment below! I don't know why so many of us want to stay trapped in a time warp of 30-50 year old stuff. Daniel Neumayer wrote: . . . > If we want to interest future generations in the hobby, we have to provide > what the kids actually SEE, not what WE remember. > > -Daniel Neumayer > -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2953	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Re: Modern S

Hi All, Well, yes it's true to attract young blood, we need to have more modern stuff! But, gee, don't tell me I remember mainline steam! Uh oh, I DO remember Daylight painted Alco PAs, ooooh boy....... We do need to remember quality too, AF stuff may be simple, but it has a look to it that says "real" far greater than the three rail guys were making then! In fact, their modelers still have problems with it, look at the new AF caboose they made a few years ago, it lacks the subtle details that make AF so good. "Name one!" Well, the handrails on AF stuff curves nicely on the side of the caboose, as do the real ones, but the ones on the LAF new job don't, just like the 0-27 ones don't! Also rivet detail is missing big time on the sides! makes the mold simpler, but the product suffers. I personally prefer the vintage stuff, but I realize how important the new stuff is to allow this scale to grow into the greatness it deserves. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2954	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: Delaire Air Pistons

Rodney asked "When using Delaire switch machines what do you use for an air source?" The current issue of "Garden Railways" has some information on this, including using a 2-liter soda bottle for the air tank. Alan Udy RMHRS ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2955	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: automatic circuits

S-listers: I am looking for information on automatic circuits for Flyer trains. If you have built one that works reliably, I would like to know about it for an upcoming Roundhouse column. Also would like to talk about it on S-list. So far, I have an automatic reverse loop, a wye, a wye with reverse loop,a circuit that alternates routes, and possibly the automatic siding circuit that we've been discussing. There have got to be lots of other good ideas out there. Thanks for your help, Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2956	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/8/1999
Subject: modern trains

The thing about modern trains is that there are so few of them (prototypes) out there ! There is no real rail freight service to New York City, for example. There is a former 4 track line down the West Side of Manhattan, which passes right by UPS, Federal Express, and the central Post Office. It is only used by a handful of Amtrak trains daily, and some jerk built an apartment tower right in the middle of the former yard site. Every time a sports team builds a new stadium it seems they use a former rail yard. I personally would rather model a time when there were more trains. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2957	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

Ed makes a good point, but I know that Tom Marsh of Overland Models was very disapointed in the sales of SD50/60. Maybe the fact that the prospect of a plastic SD60 in the future might have influenced sales, but the brass models were produced several years ago and they can still be purchased from River Raisin. When modern brass projects sell out in less than a year, then the importers will become interested in making more similar items. Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote: > Has anyone in the MPSM SIG considered choosing a r-e-a-l-l-y popular > modern model, obtaining deposit money (60 units), and then approaching > the brass importers to have 100 units made in brass? -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2958	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: modern trains

Dear Tom, I saw some where this week that CSX and Conrail have agreed to rebuild parts of the West Side Line. Jarcho wrote: From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) ......There is no real rail freight service to New York City, for > example. There is a former 4 track line down the West Side of Manhattan, > which passes right by UPS, Federal Express, and the central Post Office. > It is only used by a handful of Amtrak trains daily..... -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2959	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: A BLAST FROM THE PAST

As much as I want to promote new S and build up the hobby with the younger generation, my layout is a piece of history in hi-rail. My childhood community which is all torn down now, A.C.Gilbert history and the Reading RR which is long gone. Most visitors love to see it from 2 years to 92 years (if they can climb the steps). So while you criticize and debate the failings and the lack of perfect modern equipment remember that most people just want to see the sites or sights. Why frustrate yourselves. Most kids want computer games anyway. Staying on NASG track, Glenn (did you vote?)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2960	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Las Vegas

I am going to Las Vegas this weekend & was wondering whether there were any hobby shops, etc., which might carry A.F.? Any help would be appreciated.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2961	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: auto switch

--- Jarcho <jarcho@...> wrote: >When the track trip throws the switch, no more current will be going through the switch rail and trip, the track trip will de-activate, and the switch motor will get no more power. The problem with this approach is that when it becomes this train's turn again and the switch is now switched to this siding, the trip is now powered and therefore the switch will be powered and will switch this siding off again before the train can get moving. The switch will be switching back and forth like mad until one of the trains inches forward enough to either get off a 697 trip or in the case of a 670 trip to run into the switch and derail. This problem would occur even if you use the older 720 switch. It still comes back to being necessary for the train to stop at a point where the trip is not being tripped. Since your train stops too fast, you will have to isolate with insulated pins the stopping area so that it is in the track after the 697, which will be located in the always powered section. To keep this area always powered, have the switches at the entry to the siding set to regular operation and since the siding connected to the curved part of the switch always gets it's power cut off when the switch is set to the straight rail side, regardless of the 2-train/reg switch setting, (the regular switch only permanently connects the long curved rail to the short straight rail, not also the long straight to the short curved,) you will need to use a power terminal just inside the entry switch for the curved siding. The train enters the siding through the switch and continues moving up to the 697 trip which trips and switches the switch, which cuts the power to the insulated section up ahead of the still moving train (due to the regular switch setting and/or the power terminal,) and when the train hits the insulated section it stops and the locomotive is far enough away from the trip so that it isn't tripping it. This can also be done with the 670 trips, it just requires seperate insulated stopping and tripping sections. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2962	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

> Ed makes a good point, but I know that Tom Marsh of Overland Models was > very disapointed in the sales of SD50/60. > Don Thompson If Tom Marsh has made a real SD-60, I would have likely drained my bank account. I've been crying for modern motive power for a long time. After getting a very good deal on some brass trade-ins, to a point where it wouldn't cost me much cash, some arm-twisting reluctantly convinced me to buy one of Tom's engines. It's still sitting disassembled and I don't have an awful of a lot of interest in it. Tom answered the question of "who the hell wants an SD-60 with a standard cab?" The answer, which I could have predicted had anyone asked, was "almost nobody". However, the Spartan cab was pretty much standardized, while a wide-nose would likely have required several variations, so he went with what was easier to make, not with what the customers might have wanted. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2963	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Time Warp

Charles E. Smith wrote: "I don't know why so many of us want to stay trapped in a time warp of 30-50 year old stuff." I'll tell you why, from this old (60) codger's point of view. I want to recreate the beautiful stuff I remember as a boy and young man, near where I grew up. I thought those NYC locomotives and trains were gorgeous. Those first-generation diesels and their coexisting steam and electric brethren were awesome. And those passenger trains! Beautiful road-specific color schemes. The combination of passenger cars from different roads on the Pennsy's main line was dazzling: Seaboard, ACL, Southern, PRR, New Haven, RF&P, LV, CofG, A&WP, T&P, all on the same line. Today all you see is red-blue-silver Amtrak. And freight trains that look like multiple-tandem highway trailers. And no cabeese. Not for me, no thank you. But I agree with the need for more modern equipment, even though I wouldn't touch it. Reason: Today's young people never saw what I saw as a youth. They love the trains they see now. And if interest in S, or -- in a larger sense, model railroading in general, is to be maintained, we'd better get on with offering contemporary stuff for contemporary modelers.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2964	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: Time Warp

From: Richard Karnes <karnesrn@...> >But I agree with the need for more modern equipment, even though I wouldn't touch it. Reason: Today's young people never saw what I saw as a youth. They love the trains they see now. And if interest in S, or -- in a larger sense, model railroading in general, is to be maintained, we'd better get on with offering contemporary stuff for contemporary modelers. Right! The period our children will feel nostalgic about is now.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2965	From: kelvin white	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: SD50/60s

In message <3734FC93.1F07@...>, Robin Thompson <robin@...> writes >From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > >Ed makes a good point, but I know that Tom Marsh of Overland Models was >very disapointed in the sales of SD50/60. Maybe the fact that the >prospect of a plastic SD60 in the future might have influenced sales, >but the brass models were produced several years ago and they can still >be purchased from River Raisin. They were not listed in the last RRM NL I received, there are some painted models available from DPH but I'm not aware of any undecs being still available - Does anybody know better? -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2966	From: jdoran	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Thanks for the help

Thanks to everybody helping with my switching problem. It's obviously more complicated than I thought, but it sounds like it can be done. I've been using 697 trips, don't have any of the electronic trips and I don't remember seeing any lately but I havn't been looking either. Anyway I'm going to start figuring out diagrams for these suggestions. When I get it working I'll put it up here. Thanks again Doc

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2967	From: Boul, Lawrence	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: POed

> Subject: P-Oed with S > > Hi Don, > You thought right Don, I am, quite "discouraged" with s SCALE. But any > more I figure I'll just go with flow -'S'low as it is. I'll continue the > usual "begging" along with the other MPSM people and support S with > purchases of what's usable for me, such as the "sort-of modern diesel". > > I like your comparison: > > <" It is funny that AC Gilbert could make PA's and GP-9s when they were > only a few years old, yet today we do not make much that isn't at least 30 > years old."> > > It's sad that S is permanently stuck to the nostalgia thing. Yes, I know > the story well, 'we' have to go with and satisfy the masses to be > profitable but still, I can't understand why we modern/contemporary > modelers can't so much as get an occasional (bi-yearly?)contemporary > freight car run between the nostalgic stuff. > > Dave Bailey, MPSM Advocate > > No one is listening...until you make a mistake > Dave: personally my attraction to S is the LACK of RTR. I get no satisfaction from collecting, but it is hard to work up the enthusiasm to scratchbuild something for which there is a good off the shelf model. S - the 'S'cratchbuilders scale!!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2968	From: Gerbasi	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: MDT and RBBX

Don't flame me, this really isn't off topic. Can anyone tell me if the Burlington Refrigerator Express cars as made by AM, were "head end cars" (as I would expect from the paint scheme) and ran in passenger trains as "Express Reefers," if they got special handling but ran in freights or were just run in standard freights? Also does anyone know of a reference about Merchants Dispatch Transit, better known as MDT (who ran the prototype for the 1997 TTOS S gauge convention car)? I have run through all of my references and can not understand the relationship this company had to the NYC and the IC. See, not really off topic. Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2969	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: ALL THE FUSS!

Hi Guy"S",I would just like to chime in here a minute.If I'm not mistaken,and I probably am, this whole thing started when we were a couple ,or three years old, right? We were playing with TOY TRAINS! That's what this is all about isn't it? When the kids come over to the house to see the Christmas layout ,their eyes light up at the lights ,the whistles ,the bells,and the wonderful little buttons that make things move. They can get hooked on what we have ,new or old. The trains they play with now, Will become the great memories of tomorrow. Not what they see on the real tracks! I was born in 57, and I don't remember seeing steam engines as a child . I grew up less than 60 feet from the railroad tracks. I played with AF steamers as a kid and that is what I have the great memories of today. Get the kids playing with what we have,new or old, and that is what they will have great memories of thirty years from now.I hope in 30 years, 2 year old Jacob who lives across the street from me ,is playing with the trains he enjoys watching now. I hope I didn't offend anyone,and I hope I didn't ramble too long. Happy "S"ing

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2970	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

> I'm new to all this. Was there something wrong with Tom Marsh's >SD-60? > > Daniel He did a Spartan cab version. There was nothing seriously wrong with the model (I can find things to critique in any brass model). My contention is that most people who were interested in spending that much money on an SD-60 were interested in buying an ultra-modern looking diesel, as opposed to something that was already dated in appearance. At least, this is true in my own case. Marsh certainly had customer requests to do those versions, but chose not to. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2971	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: general comments

I have been a subscriber to this list for about four months and, for the most part, I have enjoyed reading the comments. Additionally, I am impressed by the vast technical knowledge that some of my fellow subscribers have. I dare say that some of this knowledge I will never master.I now want to share with you my thoughts on our hobby. 1. Model railroading should be a hobby.It is something to enjoy. If my neighbor wants to play with Lionel,or HO, that's his right. For what ever the reason, he is fascinated with this particular gauge, and as the Beatles said, "let it Be". If one want to build scenery, great. If one wants to run all types of motive power, fantastic. 2. Let's face it, S Gauge is currently the minority, if, for whatever the reason, you are into S, enjoy it, whether its S, Hi Rail, AF or anything else that I have ommitted. As we are the minority gauge, let's stick together and not belittle anyone because he is interested in 1940's livery or modern railroading. We can all learn from each other. 3. This is a free enterprise society. If you model current railroading and can't get the stock that you want it is because the manufacturers have done their homework and realize that the potential sale of a particular item won't "cut it" because of the small interest. Same for eBay. The market determines the price. That's the facts of life. And now for my beliefs ... Mind you the following are my comments and if you disagree, well, that's ok too. 1. As S is a fairly large scale, most of us have size restrictions for our respective layouts. Therefore, I personally, can not rationalize running something like a large articulated steamer or a four piece diesel set on the average S layout. It looks ridiculous. This belief is accentuated by the fact that most of us run approximately no more than 10-15 cars with any motive power. Imagine, running 15 cars with a "Big boy" or a "Challenger" or even a "Hudson". Silly isn't it. I believe that the largest loco that should be run with the average S layout probably is a Pacific. This is the reason why the HOers probably look down on us as playing with toys.I enjoy AF Atlantics for this reason, and hope that someone will market some S Consolidations or Moguls soon. 2. I believe that we should attempt to inject more realism in our layouts.If you favor a particular era or railroad, attempt to stay within its boundaries. I personally believe that to see a Santa Fe Warbonnet passanger train on a track with an adjacent track on the same layout that is running a Pennsy freight is, again, ridiculous. OK,, Santa Fe with Southern, NYC with Pennsy, etc. =OK. 3. The above rules are completely void if one acknowledges the fact that one just enjoys playing with trains 4.With todays "nutso" lifestyle, we need this all too brief diersion into the wonderful world of trains. Enjoy the hobby and be tolerant and supportive of thy neighbor. 5. A toast to our wives and sweethearts who tolerate this mad passion of ours because they truly love us. Comments are my beliefs are appreciated, but please, no strong "flaming". I am very sensitive individual.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2972	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: ALL THE FUSS!

Dear Cbtrainnut@..., Of course we were playing with toy trains* as children, but, thanks to A.C. Gilbert (and for many of us our enlightened parents), they were more than just toys, they were scale models patterned after prototype drawings and operated on two rails. Those unfortunate children with the perceptionally impaired parents played with Lionel and Marx that were ONLY toy trains. Remember, our parents paid more for our trains (American Flyer) and there was not as wide a selection (as brand "L"), but they wanted the best for us (at least that what I like to think about my parents). *Toy - 1.n a child's plaything (New Webster's dictionary 1991 ed.) P.S. Yes, I do own a dictionary, but I guess as most of my close friends realize, I just don't use it too often (or a spell checker). P.P.S. For those who had Lionel or Marx as children, please do not take this as an insult to your parents. Maybe the local dealers in your area did not carry AF (at least that what you can think about your parents). -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Cbtrainnut@... wrote: > > From: Cbtrainnut@... > > Hi Guy"S",I would just like to chime in here a minute.If I'm not mistaken,and > I probably am, this whole thing started when we were a couple ,or three years > old, right? We were playing with TOY TRAINS!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2973	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

Dear Stan, I too asked Tom about the wide cab version and he told us that their were difference between the two units that were more than just a cab change. He was nervous about offering one version not to mention the added cost of the extra units to make both. I also pointed out the enhanced marketing advantages of a unit that did not look similar to the SD-40, GP-38 (or GP-35), but it was no use. I still like my SD-60 and I am looking forward to the SD-45s. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2974	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: MDT and RBBX

Tom: The "Central Headlight", the publication of the NYCS Historical Society, ran an issue on the MDT operations in their 2nd Qt., 1998 issue. It included a history of the company and descriptions/photos of types of cars made. I could probably copy the article and mail to you, if you wish. Or, you could request a copy of "Vol. XXVIII, No. 2" from NYCSHS; P.O. Box 58994; Philadelphia, PA 19102-8994. Cost is $7.00 an issue. Now, if I could just get my MDT cars from PacRails.... Best Wishes Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2975	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: SD50/60s

Like Kelvin, I thought the undec versions of the RRM SD60s were all gone and what was left were painted models for a few roads. does anyone know if undecs are still available?. I agree with Stan that a wide cab version would have been preferable although the SOO straight cab models I've seen like OK. For modern modelers, it may be a question of straight cab brass SD60s and straight cabs SD45s. Myself I would go for the SD60. Ed Loizeau and several others have talked about the quality of the AM locos. To me, they seem sadly short of details other than an oversized blob of plastic that could pass for a horn. But the basic body looks OK and there are quite a few detailing parts available that can make these models look a lot better and I had already figured should the AM SD60s ever arrive that serious detailing would be required. But that's one thing we can do in S. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2976	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: Re: general comments

Hi Joe, (and the list) Good points! Another good thing about S is that I doubt you'd get flamed from this group, even if someone strongly disagreed with you, you might get a discussion, but not a flame. That speaks to the quality of people attracted to our gauge. Hmm maybe there is something good about not being #1?? I like to read and hear about all aspects of S, including narrow gauge, despite my obvious preference for steam and neat passenger trains (of any railroad, but I'm really partial to SP Daylights--the Shasta Daylight ran through our place!). Because of my considerable investment in vintage Flyer, and my "historical perspective" -- I want to maintain some semblance of reality by keeping stuff in the early '50s time frame, despite the fact that I have Reading locos, SP locos, NP locos, etc all running around the same tracks, I will probably never be personally in the market for modern stuff. I still support the creation of it though, as I believe it will be important to help S grow. My feeling for ideals for more products is, that even if the piece is made to 'old standards' with minimal detailing, it still needs to be accurate. ACG made fairly accurate models, something L hasn't done much. If you look at an AF caboose and an L caboose side by side, note the rivet detailing that AF has, note the nicely curved side grab irons. ACG mold crafters carefully did these neat details, which has always set their product apart from the others. When L decided to make a new AF caboose, they used their mold standards, and, if you look at the results, it's missing major portions of rivet detail, the grab irons are "clunky" the whole overall effect is not "Flyer-like." Gads, their new trucks aren't either! There is a basic mind-set difference, and it's that difference that has to be kept to help S grow. Of course, there's also the option of making it fully detailed too! I think there's room for both ends of this scale (pun intended!). And I think we're magnanimous enough to be supportive of all the variations of enjoying S that exist! As far as heart and civility are concerned, WE'RE #1!!!!WE'RE #1!!!!WE'RE #1!!!! S'incerely, David D PS, Happy Mother's day to all, espcially to those most supportive SWMBOs.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2977	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/9/1999
Subject: MPSM BRASS

TO ALL MODERN PROTOTYPE S MODELERS- For those that have read my recent post to this list and associated replies entitled "P-Oed with S", you might recall Ed Loizeaux's posted suggestion and closing statement. His closing statement was; <"Merely grousing among yourselves on the InterNet will not accomplish anything. It is a waste of time."> This complaining among ourselves is not just recent nor am I the only one that feels this way. Ed's suggestion is not new ,as he explained, nor is this the first time he suggested it to us. His explanation and suggestion is as follows: <"Has anyone in the MPSM SIG considered choosing a r-e-a-l-l-y popular modern model, obtaining deposit money (60 units), and then approaching the brass importers to have 100 units made in brass? This is exactly what the NYC and PRR enthusiasts did in years gone by. They organized themselves and communicated their desires in a way guaranteed to make importers listen. As a NYC enthusiast, I now enjoy Hudsons, Mohawks, Niagaras, USRA light Mikes, USRA 0-8-0 -- not to mention every first generation diesel that was truly common on the NYC. The Pennsy guys can tell a similar story."> <"We obtained photographs, prototype blueprints from the historical socities, deposits from customers, and forwarded all of it to several different brass importers over the years. The technique works and I would certainly urge the MPSM folks to give it a try. While this approach might not be feasible for plastic models, it sure works for the brass pieces."> I considered this approach In the past but was reluctant to suggest it due the low numbers of modern modelers and the even lower numbers of brass buyers. Also, just the word..... -"BRASS"- instills reluctance and even refusal to purchase to many because it is expensive. I grant you, it is expensive but models are not hand crafted of brass for the rich and famous or for pride and prestige of ownership, rather it is because brass is the best and lowest cost medium to produce a low number run of a product not otherwise likely to be done in comparison to cutting molds for plastic. I am not wealthy and can hardly afford brass myself but I'll support a brass project when I know it's something I will have use for. And since I limit myself to models useable to me for the modern / contemporary era, I consider it a good deal as I spend so little over a years time as new so-called modern equipment is so slow in becoming available. So...at this point, I am interested in learning just from this list alone, (for the time being) how many will reply with (only) positive feed-back (please) to the following: 1. Do you want to become an organized group to get modern equipment? (In brass as explained above) answer-y/n 2. Are you willing to help in a managerial/committee capacity? answer-y/n 3. Are you willing to help fund a project with deposit money? answer-y/n For a cost base consideration, I'd suggest a first scenario project be a freight car for the lowest initial cost. Dave Bailey, MPSM Advocate

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2978	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: 4x8 payout contest

Regarding the 4x8 layout contest, I wonder if anyone would be interested in a second category, 5x10? If have a self-interest, as that is what I hope to begin developing soon. The framework is ready, now the challenging part starts! Thanks for all the help on identifying the Frontiersman set with the Franklin engine (21088) and 2 passenger cars. The Train Depot in Mt. Airy, Maryland was asking $185 which included a small transformer and enough AF track for an oval. I offered $150 yesterday and Tom accepted. I'll also need to pay S&H, but that saves me a 200 mile round trip. I acquired 2 grandchildren on April 30th when I married their grandmother. (Ages 3 years and 9 days). I hope to get the Frontiersman and some other trains running for a Christmas layout. I plan on having things the kids will like such as a skating rink, Ferris wheel, etc. What other ideas do you fellows have?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2979	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: 4x8/5x9 layout contest

5x9 sounds great, anything to increase participation, Others have asked the very same question. 5x9 does open up more possibilities. Paul Yorke American Flyer operator/Stereo Photographer S-Trains Mailing / http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains (Primary Email Yorke@... - Backup paulyork@...) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2980	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Pleasant Surprise

Some like it hot, some like it cold, some like modern, some like it old, whatever. I just had to write in about how much fun (actually more than I expected) my recently purchased 21168 has turned out to be. Smooth, smokey, plenty peppy, and with a crisp clear choo-choo, this little engine has waltzed right into my heart. It may not be a heavy-hauler or look that much like the "real thing", but it's a lot of fun to run! Much better in fact than my 21088 (noisy and rambling, but that gives it personality). Sure I like my die-cast steamers, diesels, GG1, etc. too, but I just had to add what a kick this little "cheapy" turned out to be for me.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2981	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Nostalgia for today

Scott Holm said: >The period our children will feel nostalgic about is now. Actually, most of us, even the scale-to-the-core guys, got our start in this hobby with toy trains; Lionel, Flyer, Marx, or something similar. Our nostalgia is less for the real trains than for those mythical trains whose catalog pictures burned into our unconscious. I've heard it said (and I've oft repeated) that the train buff spends a lifetime trying to recreate 5 great minutes spent under a Christmas tree 50 years ago. Today's children will be nostalgic for today's toys. In fourty years, they will go to a closet and carefully pull out a big box filled with Beanie Babies. They'll plug an old Nintendo game into the wide screen home theater and amaze themselves with an afternoon of playing Doom or Tomb Raider, while their kids look on scornfully at the antique graphics. Of course, the difference is, that after an afternoon session of such nostalgia, they will return the items to the closet for another 5 or 10 years of abscence. These toys are like paper money, they have no intrinsic value of their own. Toy trains are like paper money backed by gold. There were no "real" Beanie Babies. The toy does not purport to represent living animals. There is no real game of Doom, unless you acually are some secret agent raiding tombs and killing guys. There were, however, real trains. That's the gold. That is the backbone that kept the hobby alive. The death of the importance of railroads in the minds of today's children is due to many factors. The principal among them is that railroads are no longer the biggest, baddest, meanest, loudest, most romantic or most powerful force of which they can conceive. Trains have been relegated to the tasks of people moving and freight handling, like so many elevators and hand trucks. In the old days, a train reached deep into the darkness, or sprung up from far away places. As a kid, I could only imagine riding the Santa Fe Super Chief right into the land of Cowboys and Indians. My Flyer PA in warbonnet paint was my passport to that dream. Now people go everywhere in three hours and complain about it. "Airline food stinks." "I'm scared of flying." "It's so crowded, there's no room to stretch out." "The fares are all over the place for seats on the same plane." Travel has become a fearsome chore instead of a seminal event, and trains aren't even in the picture. Plane models enjoy a litle action though, because when kids fly, they are caught up in the magic of travelling long distances. Plane travel is the gold backing for a Revell 747 kit. Kids know freight moves by truck, because, when they travel by car they are surrounded by semis. Here's a little romance. The truck driver, a lone wolf driving through the night, last of the cowboys. The big noisy truck rolls for miles right next to a kid as he examines, from his perch in the rear of the minivan, every detail of the air lines and fuel tanks and the fifth wheel. When that kid gets home, we can sell him something made by Hartoy, for sure. The truck on the road is the gold backing for that hobby dollar. The real trains are still there, but amazingly enough, little kids still call them "choo-choos". My wife is a teacher, and all the transportation graphics in her teaching materials depict jet planes, minivans, modern semis, and steam locomotives! I believe that the general public fixated its mass railroad unconscious at the end of the steam era and hasn't progressed since. Thomas the Tank Engine has done much to promote that concept. If you ride behind live steam at all, you have seen those little kids, clutching their father's finger with one little hand and grasping a tiny, blue, smiley faced, wooden toy tank engine with the other. Excursion steam, and a popular TV show are the gold standard behind Thomas' sales. Kids need to relate their toys to a real world for them to have any lasting value. That is why computer games and Beanies will only be fondly remembered fads, like the hula hoop. Even Barbie has "legs" (pun intended) as a toy, because she represents to young girls their own approaching womanhood. Barbie was a revolutionary doll because she was not a child doll for the youngster to "baby." Barbie was a well developed young woman with clothes, make-up, possessions, and of course, Ken! Impending adulthood, with opportunities beyond mothering, is the nostalgic gold coin backing Barbie's dollar. SD-60's. Hmmm. As a kid, I knew what a PA and a GP-7 were. Do you think there is kid out there (who is not actually in a railroad family) who has the slightest idea what an SD-60 is? Are there many kids who subscribe to Lionel for catalogs? Lionel had to drop its kids club because all the subscribers were over 40. American kids (sadly, perhaps) are no longer in love with railroads. Those of us who love trains wish dearly that this wasn't so, but we just aren't the kids anymore. The people who took that job have other interests. Even the spark we see in the littlest youngster who watches all those "I Love Toy Trains" tapes and who is addicted to Thomas, is only that, a spark. It's the same spark that ignited in us, but then, there was an infrastructure of colorful railroads, and toy manufacturers emulating them, to whip that spark into a flame. That inferno burns hot to this day. I fan those fires hardest when another road shuts down or more trackage is condemned, or when another toy train manufacturer or publication bites the dust. Open my coffin after I'm gone a few years, you'll find the liner quite scorched. In those little kids, I fear, that spark will extinguish for lack of fuel. SD-60's will not replace Thomas in any child's expectations. Thomas will simply go the way of Humpty-Dumpty. I don't think of ol' Hump every time I have an omelet. There's no connection. I don't think that modern motive power and rolling stock will attract youngsters. Oh, there will always be a few, but we have to recognize that the toy train revival and manufacturing heyday in which we currently find ourselves is also a passing phase. Fourty-five years from now, the news will do a public interest piece on some old codger who is still running American Flyer trains, some of which are over 95 years old. At 97, they will report, he is believed to be the last person in America still modeling America's railroads. Guaranteed, he'll be running steam. My wife always wants me to catalog all my stuff, so that when I pre-decease her, a given in our society, she can sell it all for a fair market value. Since I plan to be that old codger, I always ask, "To whom?" Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2982	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: B.T.S. Spring Cleaning Sale

B.T.S. Spring Cleaning Sale We have a few Odds & Ends that need a good home so we have cut their prices 15-50%. In most cases, there is only one or two of each item. All items listed are Scale - not Hi-rail. Schreiner - Urethane Kits - No trucks 58' Bulkhead Flatcar $20.00 Diner/Lounge, Smoothside $25.00 S Scale America Single-Dome Tank Car, UP $20.00 Single-Dome Tank Car, Brown $20.00 Pacific Rail Shops 50' Single-Door Box Car, Conrail $12.00 50' Single-Door Box Car, CNW $12.00 American Models 50' Rib Box Car, Conrail $17.00 50' Rib Box Car, CNW $17.00 50' Rib Box Car, UP $17.00 50' Rib Box Car, Tropicana $17.00 50' Rib Box Car, Railbox $17.00 CD Covered Hopper, UP $22.00 CD Covered Hopper, BN $22.00 CD Covered Hopper, GN $22.00 CD Covered Hopper, Pillsbury $22.00 CD Covered Hopper, D&RGW $22.00 Four-Bay Hopper, Rock $18.00 Four-Bay Hopper, CSX $18.00 Four-Bay Hopper, WM $18.00 Four-Bay Hopper, Southern $18.00 Four-Bay Hopper, Peabody $18.00 GG-1, PRR Red $200.00 S-Helper Service 32' Trailer, BAR $10.00 32' Trailer, NKP $10.00 32' Trailer, NH $10.00 32' Trailer, RI $10.00 32' Trailer, SAL $10.00 32' Trailer, CNW $10.00 32' Trailer, NYC $10.00 USRA Stock Car, PRR $25.00 USRA Stock Car, ATSF $25.00 USRA Stock Car, NYC $25.00 USRA Stock Car, GN $25.00 USRA Stock Car, CB&Q $25.00 USRA Stock Car, MKT $25.00 Caboose Package Division Point Brass D&RGW Welded Caboose and a B.T.S. D&RGW Wood Caboose Kit Regular price for the two - $304.95 Now only $230.00 until May 15! B.T.S. Structures - Last Few of these Limited Editions! JD Tower - Hydrocal Kit $ 40.00 Elliott & Sons Supply $150.00 Standard shipping applies. VISA, MasterCard, American Express, Discover Accepted. Prices valid until May 30, 1999, unless noted, or until quantity on hand sells out. Thanks, Bill & Diane -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2983	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: '46 Dodge Panel truck

Hi, I've not been following the vehicle threads so this may not be a new one... We resently started getting some food from Schwan (a national company that delivers to your home). In their latest catalog they had an offer to get a model of a 1946 Dodge Schwan's Panel Truck. It's a company anniversary of some sort, Mr Schwan delivered the first ice cream in one... I jokenly asked if it was S scale at which point my wife handed me the catalog. Low and behold it is 1/64 scale made by Lledo PLC of England. The picture looks really good and the price is right - $4.99. The catch is you need to 2 proofs of purchase from Schwan's ice cream. For me thats not a problem! Well, except will be be vanilla or rum rasin tonight? Anyway, just thought i would pass it along. I'm having all of my friends (that use Schwan) collect the containers and may end up with more trucks then i need, if so i'll make them available. kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2984	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: Pleasant Surprise

David H., Yep, that smoke unit can really put out. I've seen one of these painted up (Southern??, can't remember) and it changed the whole character of the engine, actually looked pretty neat! Seems to me the boiler was green and the cab roof was red. S' The "other David", David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2985	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: 4x8 payout contest

Peter, Well, these are from my experience, but the stuff that seems to attract attention are: Bell Danger & Crossing gates Sawmill Mail pick-up car Unloading cars (any; logs, auto, etc.!) The Moe & Joe is neat, but a little delicate, hard for little hands. Oil Drum Loader Bubbling towers & rotary beacons (though interest isn't as long-lived) Now I haven't had my log loader, coal loader or cattle pens running yet on a display layout, so don't know about them! Also, the ability to uncouple cars and send them into other tracks and make up different trains can be fun as they grow older. I once had a layout with the sawmill on a siding. I had a switch engine on the siding, and the main line had an insulated section, so I could uncouple the caboose, and uncouple the front of the train, so the switch engine could come out of the siding, pick up the gondola car, and pull it back to the sawmill. The sawmill would then load the car, meanwhile, the mainline train would back up to the caboose, couple on, and go around the layout again, until it was time to pick up the "new" load. This only requires two transfomers and a single insulated pin, as the switch acts as the other insulated pin. You provide power to the switch engine from the siding, the switch cuts off power to the mainline behind it, and the insulating pin forward of it, but when it's set for the mainline, that section of mailine is again powered. AF is so much fun!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2986	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

> I also pointed out the > enhanced marketing advantages of a unit that did not look similar to the > SD-40, GP-38 (or GP-35), but it was no use. > I still like my SD-60 and I am looking forward to the SD-45s. > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. Of course keep in mind that the subject was "P-Oed with S". My tone was intended to match the topic. I'd have no hestitation in buying SD-45s at plastic prices. I guess my point is that at today's brass prices, I really have to hestitate if the model isn't something that I want badly. (I may yet cave in on the SD-45). That aside, DID anyone hear anything about the American Models SDs? Even if it's a bad model, it'll give me a few parts usable on an SD-80MAC, which is likely to be my last big Conrail project. Also, has there been any news on Russ Downs' TankTrain project? Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2987	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] MPSM BRASS

> From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> > Organization: B.T.S. > > OK, modern dudes..... what brass freight car do you want? This could be a tough one. Most of the cars that I'd like to see would run in strings (intermodal, auto racks). That could relegate them to plastic, or at least to some type of kit. Also, there's always the dilemma of doing a common car that would be popular enough to do in plastic. Doing it in brass now might not be the best option. I'm definitely not trying to discourage anything here, but these are factors that I'll try to keep in mind as I come up with suggestions. On another subject: Hey, the idea of making masters is great... I'll have to try it sometime (Bill is now seriously contemplating homicide). Yes, Bill, that project will get done. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2988	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

In a message dated 5/10/99 5:15:19 PM, sscale@... writes: << Also, has there been any news on Russ Downs' TankTrain project? >> See page 11 of the most recent S Gaugian (May/June 1999). A three tank string costs $150.00. Project looks like a 'go'. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2989	From: John Foley	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: SSL&S

Hi Folks Below is a message from the new owner of SSL&S John>Delivered-To: foley164@... >From: "test.spl.inc" <test.spl.inc@...> >To: "John Foley" <foley164@...> >Subject: Re: S Trains For Sale List#1 of 4 >Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 18:13:08 -0400 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 > >Hi John > >I have had quite a few pleasant letters and E-mail regarding SSL&S.In >regard to that >I assume you gave the info to the Dispatch.I don't know If I told you but >SSL&S has >it's own address,even though we are not yet in a position to start sales.It >is: > >S Scale Locomotive & Supply >P.O. Box 550 >Richlandtown,Pa.18955 > >If you could forward this to whomever it needs to go to I would appreciate >it. > >Your friend,Fred >---------- >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2990	From: wadepub@xx.xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] MPSM BRASS

On 05/10/99 17:55:50 you wrote: > >From: sscale@... > > >> From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> >> Organization: B.T.S. >> >> OK, modern dudes..... what brass freight car do you want? > >This could be a tough one. Most of the cars that I'd like to see >would run in strings (intermodal, auto racks). That could >relegate them to plastic, or at least to some type of kit. > >Also, there's always the dilemma of doing a common car that >would be popular enough to do in plastic. Doing it in brass now >might not be the best option. "Popular enough to do in plastic" can be very misleading in S scale when you consider the low number of S scale modelers, and the percentage of that number who want modern stuff. IF the car is short enough to go around AF curves, there is a good change of getting it in plastic. If not, it will be difficult to pull off. Consider a resin kit.... I now have three companies lined up to do the casting, but none of the three will do the masters. The quality and workability (hope that is a real word) of the current resins is near that of injected styrene. It, by its nature, is designed for short run.... perfect for S scale! There is potential for some neat stuff, but we (B.T.S.) needs some help to pull it off. > >I'm definitely not trying to discourage anything here, but these are >factors that I'll try to keep in mind as I come up with suggestions. > And there are important factors. If you model an iron ore road, 50+ ore cars is a must. In brass, that could kill the hobby budget for many years. But if the demand is high enough, the price can become more moderate. I sold out of the Sn3 brass log cars last fall - these were fully detailed with trucks and couplers - and when the customer picked up 6 or more, the price dropped down to just over $100.00. Far cry from the $200+ prices of the standard gauge stuff. The difference was basically due to the large quantity. And the way this car was made is the same way a 4-wheel Frontrunner could be done. But really much of the pricing of a brass import is the result of three factors: detail, quantity, and difficulty. In the modern stuff, some of the difficulty is reduced by the lack of rivets. Quantity is something we are trying to get a handle on by the string of messages. And detail, well you need to tell me exactly what level of detail can you live with. I.e., would you be happy with an autorack that uses SHS trucks and does not have all the brake rigging? Would the detail level we got back in 1980 suffice today? >On another subject: >Hey, the idea of making masters is great... I'll have to try it >sometime (Bill is now seriously contemplating homicide). Yes, Bill, >that project will get done. Lord, I hope so!!!!! When? WHEN???? WHEN????? You noticed I have not been pushy, but that model still has not been seen on the S layouts. Make a few folks happy, Stan, and let's get it done! 'Course, now everyone is going to drive us nuts wondering what it is! ;-) Wondering is good for the soul. Take care, Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2991	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

Stan, At this past S Spring Spree in Dayton I saw a Downs three unit TANK TRAIN in use on one of the operating layouts. It was really interesting, I did not even know that they existed. The fellow who owned it said he was going to buy an additional car, so as to have a four unit rig. Are any of these prototype units still in use, if not, when did they go out of service? Also in what area of the country were they used, I have not seen one in the East? Tom Davis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2992	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Air Supply

For the Del-Aire switch machines, get an empty air conditioning refrigerant can (several gallon size) from your appliance or auto A/C repairman. There are adaptor kits for converting these to compressed air cans. Regarding kids wanting what they remember seeing, there is more to it. I have zero recollection of seeing steam in-service, but I sure loved my AF Atlantic! Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2993	From: Gale Hall	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: freon cylinders

Folks, Ya gotta find a real old cylinder 5 or 6 years old in order to make an air tank, the throw away cylinders today have a small plastic disc that floats in the valve and when the tank is empty it falls below the discharge port and you can't refill the tank, or evacuate the tank..... This applies to the 30 and 50 pound throw away cylinders..... Gale Hall _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2994	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

Dear Stan, Mike and I talked to Ron, Joe and Zach (he is getting so big) at the Spree and he indicated that the SD-60 would be started again and he hoped to have something this fall. Mike and I saw the tank train cars at Allentown and York. I think they are now available. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2995	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: Re: lettering diagram

Dear Dick, Thank you for the e-mail. I have copied you two S train groups you may want to consider joining. It has been very informative and I have met a few new modelers and S enthusists. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2996	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: News stuff

We will be taking photos of the NASG Convention cars this week so I was able to take them home an put them on the layout. The cars are well done, crisp lettering and very striking with the black lettering and the white stripe on the gray car. We are pleased with the quality of the car and happy to commemorate a wonderful fallen flag that served the Twin Cities for many years. As an added note, one of the PS-2 car numbers will be 70525 which was the 10,000'ed PS-2 Covered Hopper delivered from the Butler Pennsylvania plant. I also received the June issue of Railmodel Journal which has the Minnesota Heartland Railway featured with big photo's. One of the side benefits we received this year is the additional exposure of S to the Model Railroad public. Well enough of the fun stuff, there is still Convention work to do. Ken Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2997	From: Joe Visintine	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: (Fwd) Re: [S-Trains] [Proto64] MPSM BRASS

Forwarded message: From: Self <Single-user mode> To: wadepub@... Subject: Re: [S-Trains] [Proto64] MPSM BRASS Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:38:15 -0700 Date sent: Mon, 10 May 1999 17:49:24 -0500 (CDT) From: wadepub@... To: sscale@... To: Proto64@onelist.com Copies to: S-Trains@onelist.com Subject: Re: [S-Trains] [Proto64] MPSM BRASS > >> OK, modern dudes..... what brass freight car do you want? How about a generic transfer caboose in brass. Not all that modern but still in use today by a few roads. Joe Visintine Choo Choo Joe h2oman@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2998	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: resin kits

Bill Wade said a whole bunch of stuff - including:: > > > Consider a resin kit.... I now have three companies lined up to do the casting, but > none of the three will do the masters. ... My idea of the perfect world is one in which I can buy S scale versions of Westerfield's HO resin kits. They can produce detail in HO that I think nobody could scratch build in S. I have decided that they use something like etched brass to form some of the details - like reefer latches and brake staff ratchets and boxcar door wheel assemblies. The point being that first class masters are not something that the average modeler can toss off - not if we are to get Westerfield quality. I have made some masters and cast parts but the parts are no better than the masters - kludge masters yield kludge parts. Is it conceivable that a group could be formed for a particular project to subscribe in advance the necessary money to hire first class masters built and cast? This would be different from pledging or pre-paying a manufacturer. It would mean a money commitment by a group and someone with knowledge of the industry to put it together. The advantage would be that the money was in place up front and the specific product would be known to all involved. The burden would be on the person or persons coordinating the activity. Art

Group: S-Trains	Message: 2999	From: Donald E. Munsey, Jr.	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Modern Equipment (sorta) Swap

Friends, I have three Quality Craft Models S-scale craftsman kits that are "too modern" for me. They are: 1) CP Bathtub Gondola (QS-2); 2) Weyerhaeuser All Door Box Car (W1); and 3) Rotary Coal Car (QS-1). All kits are new in box (boxes are written on and were taped) and have original decal sheets and the castings are still in the plastic bags. If anyone would be interested in swapping for operator condition 900 series Flyer rolling stock or a QC N&W Hopper kit please contact me off list. Thanks. -- Big Swede (aka Don Munsey, Jr.) UpperRightCorner of Louisiana StoryTeller, CopperSmith, S/Sn3 ModelRailroader & Bonsai grasshopper. A Recovering Forester now teaching High School Geometry!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3000	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/10/1999
Subject: modern freight car

For starters I'm assuming the DPH boxcars and coalporters are a go. I would like to nominate either the Canadian grain hopper car as Intermountain has done in HO and O or one of the more modern four bay covered hopers such as National Steel Car in Hamilton, Ont has built for CPR-Soo amongst others. Or a modern 60 foot gondola such as Gunderson's Trenton Works in Nova Scotia has cranked out. A centerbeam flat car would be good as would a pressure differential hopper. Anyone of this would be good resin cars and would encourage people to buy plenty. A modern 56 or 60 foot flatcar would be good. cheers B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade wrote: > From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> > > B.T.S. Spring Cleaning Sale > > We have a few Odds & Ends that need a good home so we > have cut their prices 15-50%. > > In most cases, there is only one or two of each item. > All items listed are Scale - not Hi-rail. > > Schreiner - Urethane Kits - No trucks > 58' Bulkhead Flatcar $20.00 > Diner/Lounge, Smoothside $25.00 > > S Scale America > Single-Dome Tank Car, UP $20.00 > Single-Dome Tank Car, Brown $20.00 > > Pacific Rail Shops > 50' Single-Door Box Car, Conrail $12.00 > 50' Single-Door Box Car, CNW $12.00 > > American Models > 50' Rib Box Car, Conrail $17.00 > 50' Rib Box Car, CNW $17.00 > 50' Rib Box Car, UP $17.00 > 50' Rib Box Car, Tropicana $17.00 > 50' Rib Box Car, Railbox $17.00 > CD Covered Hopper, UP $22.00 > CD Covered Hopper, BN $22.00 > CD Covered Hopper, GN $22.00 > CD Covered Hopper, Pillsbury $22.00 > CD Covered Hopper, D&RGW $22.00 > Four-Bay Hopper, Rock $18.00 > Four-Bay Hopper, CSX $18.00 > Four-Bay Hopper, WM $18.00 > Four-Bay Hopper, Southern $18.00 > Four-Bay Hopper, Peabody $18.00 > GG-1, PRR Red $200.00 > > S-Helper Service > 32' Trailer, BAR $10.00 > 32' Trailer, NKP $10.00 > 32' Trailer, NH $10.00 > 32' Trailer, RI $10.00 > 32' Trailer, SAL $10.00 > 32' Trailer, CNW $10.00 > 32' Trailer, NYC $10.00 > USRA Stock Car, PRR $25.00 > USRA Stock Car, ATSF $25.00 > USRA Stock Car, NYC $25.00 > USRA Stock Car, GN $25.00 > USRA Stock Car, CB&Q $25.00 > USRA Stock Car, MKT $25.00 > > Caboose Package > Division Point Brass D&RGW Welded Caboose > and a B.T.S. D&RGW Wood Caboose Kit > Regular price for the two - $304.95 > Now only $230.00 until May 15! > > B.T.S. Structures - Last Few of these Limited Editions! > JD Tower - Hydrocal Kit $ 40.00 > Elliott & Sons Supply $150.00 > > Standard shipping applies. VISA, MasterCard, American Express, Discover > Accepted. > > Prices valid until May 30, 1999, unless noted, or until quantity on hand > sells out. > > Thanks, > Bill & Diane > -- > =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ > Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer > Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 > B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com > S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com > Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Star Wars fans are using ONElist to share the fun. > http://www.ONElist.com > Are you? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3001	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: NON-INFORMED ON THIS SUBJECT

Being the s-gauge kind of guy that I am,I have no idea what a resin kit is.Can someone explain? Thanks Chris Burger(cbtrainnut@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3002	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: NON-INFORMED ON THIS SUBJECT

Take a look in HO scale. There is a lot of resin kits there and most are not that great when compared to plastic. Larry Cbtrainnut@... wrote: > From: Cbtrainnut@... > > Being the s-gauge kind of guy that I am,I have no idea what a resin kit > is.Can someone explain? Thanks > Chris Burger(cbtrainnut@...) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ONElist members are using Shared Files in great ways! > http://www.onelist.com > Are you? If not, see our homepage for details. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3003	From: Pete Ervin	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Missouri Pacific stockyard

I noticed during my first viewing of AF on ebay that the Missouri Pacific stockyard has several different cattle car numbers. Is there one loader and several cars? Or several loaders and cars? If the case is the latter, are the different cars usable with all the loaders? Which loaders work best?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3004	From: Richard.Spritz@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: 4x8 payout contest

My new layout here in Denver is shaping up to be 11' x 19', with a loop each of AF wide gauge and AF O-gauge, in addition to 2 or 3 complex loops of S-gauge, so I guess I can't take part in the contest. But my previous layout was 8 x 11, and had almost all of the AF accessories on it, so I think I can add to David Dewey's "most popular" accessory list a bit. After hosting a large number of G-gauge club meets at my house, with every one of them eventually migrating to the basement running the S layout for hours, I think I can say categorically that the most popular "accessory" for little kids is the 45-degree rocket launcher. Hands down. I would recommend that you use a repro rocket, aim it away from your Gabe the Lamplighter, and just stand back and enjoy the show! Rich

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3005	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: Missouri Pacific stockyard

In a message dated 5/11/99 9:19:50 AM, pjervin@... writes: << I noticed during my first viewing of AF on ebay that the Missouri Pacific stockyard has several different cattle car numbers. >> There was one operating stock yard (there are different color variations) and two operating stock cars, the 736, which is link, and the 976, which is knuckle. The stock yard was catalogued as 771 and K771 to signify whether or not it had a 736 or a 976 included. A complete boxed stock yard always includes an operating stock car. In the five digit era, the operating stock yard was catalogued as a 23711, but this was materially a K771. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3006	From: Dalessandro, David L TL13C	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Monster Steam Engines are needed!!!Brass or other material.

I have been checking out the messages on this board, In my opinion there are many people interested in new and exciting items produced in "S". There are many different items desired, New" Steam Engines and cars as well as a Host of Classic Steam that was never produced and a few Unique Engines. However running a bunch of engines in the same boring size grows old. I see some people want to get organized, take orders and find venders to produce more eye caching Duplex and Articulated Steamers as well as Modern Diesels. I started following the products that 3rdrail have been making and they are doing a great job!! They are making the Zephyrs as well as a really nice Mikado IN "S". They in the past have also done other S projects. It looks like we may have venders right under our nose. With a deposit for say 50 items for a 100 piece run they will go ahead with the project!!!!, I suggest we all revisit their website and check out the S that they are making now and also check out what they are making in 2 rail O gauge, I see plenty I would like made in S, almost all the items infact. If they can stay in the $400-$999 price range I think we can get some additional cool items out sooner than later. I spoke to RR as well as 3rd rail, they need calls and deposits for us to be taken seriously!!!!In response to how difficult it is to run a "S" gauge large steamer like a Duplex or Articulated Steam engine I do not Agree, You need a 72" curve, if your into "S" that much all you need is a 6 by 6 layout as a minimum. I redesigned my layout to accommodate a really cool 4-6-6-4 made in the late 80's by Overland in Brass and I cant wait to get my next MONSTER Steamer!!, No I am not a scaler, I just like cool engines!!, I run whatever I like. I use hi rail American models track so flyer and all other engines work awesome on it... I have mostly AC Gilbert engines as well as a half dozen or so American Models Items and love the variety I now have. Many other manufactures engines will join my fleet in the next year. I am going to install the DCC electronics system and have some killer sounds coming from my 4-6-6-4. AC and DCC can be used however not at the same time. I will get the best of both worlds at the flip of a switch. I will work with anybody to get more Vintage Monster Steamers made, E mail me if interested. I will also try to work with 3rdrail or any willing vender if there is enough interest. I have spoken to them a few times, all they need is to see people really want more and they will gladly work with us. www.3rdrail.com check them out.... RR does not have a web site, call them. PS; I don't need a hundred coal cars behind one of those monster steamers, they don't need that to capture any attention, they do just fine with nothing behind them but drool, lol... Any of you manufactures have an idea to make these Monster engines out of anything other than Brass to reduce costs? I would think at $1000 for an engine it will take a year or two to sell out, however at $500 you capture an additional price range market and may very well sell over 200-300 in a year or so. American models may have a good feel for those numbers now, It can't be to bad as they have a 2nd steam project in the works now. Non Brass may not have as much critical detail but with today's technology they will look pretty good I bet. David Dalessandro SR DIST Computing SVC Tech a CIGNA Systems 215/761-1815/5-1815 mailto:David.Dalessandro2@ <mailto:David.Dalessandro2@...> cigna.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3007	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Chrome Removal

Thanks to all who answered my chrome removal request, I will be putting them to the test soon. Thanks AL ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3008	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: Monster Steam Engines are needed!!!Brass or other

> From: "Dalessandro, David L > > I started following the products that 3rdrail have been making and they are > doing a great job!! They are making the Zephyrs as well as a really nice > Mikado IN "S". They in the past have also done other S projects. It looks > like we may have venders right under our nose. If they do the Dash 9 in S, I'll be first in line. Maybe we can organize some encouragement here. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3009	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

> Stan, At this past S Spring Spree in Dayton I saw a Downs three unit TANK > TRAIN in use on one of the operating layouts. It was really interesting, I > did not even know that they existed. The fellow who owned it said he was > going to buy an additional car, so as to have a four unit rig. Are any of > these prototype units still in use, if not, when did they go out of service? > Also in what area of the country were they used, I have not seen one in the > East? Tom Davis > There's a tank facility near the D&H Kenwood yard (at the Port of Albany) that seems to utilize nothing but TankTrain cars. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3010	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Digest #230...Richard Karnes "Time Warp"

Dang Richard, I didn't know I was an old Codger at 60. Must be true though because I was about 8 yrs old before I ever saw a diesel locomotive. I grew up in a small community in Eastern Idaho. We were on a trip to visit relative in Utah and low and behold at Ogden a "Streamliner" as we called it came into view. I was so excited I nearly peed my pants. Have no Idea what it was but it was sleek and pretty. The railroad ran right through the little community where I lived about 15 miles from the metropolis of Idaho Falls. (pop. 20,000). I still get chills when I think about those whistle blasts announcing another steamer roaring by. My Uncle was a section chief on one of the branches that went up into Montana. We used to visit him near Hamer Idaho on an occasional Sunday and sit on the porch as the steamers came huffing and puffing up the long grade into Montana. The house belonged to the railroad but it was home to my Uncle and Cousins. I am trapped in the same time warp. The difference being that I love being there. It will keep me forever from being an "Old Codger." When I run my Flyer steamers around my layout it's like I was setting on that porch again with the great steam and smoke belching monsters rumbling by about 100 ft. away. Those will always be the visions I have of a what a railroad is/was. I truly feel sorry for the younger people of today that don't have those visions to recall. It was fun to run along the track and see who could find the biggest piece of coal that had dropped from the tender. And like everyone else in the West, I never saw a railroad track that had three rails. SSSS-team forever Steve Blackburn RMHR Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3011	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] MPSM BRASS

> BTS: > OK, modern dudes..... what brass freight car do you want? >Stan Stokrocki: >This could be a tough one. Most of the cars that I'd like to see >would run in strings (intermodal, auto racks). That could >relegate them to plastic, or at least to some type of kit. I've rethought that statement. I propose doing a long car, since this is something that will never exist in mass-market form due to the curve problem. My concept is to do an 89 foot TTX car. I would pick a low-deck version for an important reason; should future demand warrant, the same car could be used under an auto-rack. At least in theory, a suitable existing flat would make a future rack version more feasible. Also, rather than clear-coating them, it should be just as easy to bring them in painted yellow (and perhaps tuscan). Yes, I know that logical theory does not always equal reality. One drawback is that we also need trailers. If trailers are doable, pick the right prototype here as well. With some additional parts (a white-metal conversion kit, perhaps) the proper trailer could also double as a RoadRailer. On the other matter: Hey, I never get much done without an occassional kick in the butt. I figured that putting something in writing was a way to do it to myself. After I wrote that, I sat down and made more progress in a few hours than I had in a few months. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3012	From: S Stokrocki	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Modern Cars

Yes, I've already spotted the flaw in my logic. A standard 89-foot flatcar doesn't need longer modern trailers, and even a Twin-45 version can't handle more than the obvious. Still, this is a car to consider. Some other choices: ATSF converted some fairly modern wallboard cars into intermodal flats. It might be possible to follow the SHS example and get several variations out of the same basic car. MR had drawings of these years ago. How about an all-purpose well car (one that handles both trailers and stacked containers)? I'd definitely pick the Thrall version, since a Gunderson car would be somewhat similar to the S Scale America kit. While the price of a 5-unit articulated version might scare people away, single-unit and three-unit drawbar connected versions might work. Stan Stokrocki

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3013	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: Tank-Train

<< Also, has there been any news on Russ Downs' TankTrain project? >> << See page 11 of the most recent S Gaugian (May/June 1999). A three tank string costs $150.00. Project looks like a 'go'. >> Russ is delivering them now, but he has quite a B/O log so it will take some time for him to catch up. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3014	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: P-Oed with S

Stan, Thanks for the information. This afternoon I was hanging out at the local model train shop and found a August, 1994 TRAINS magazine with a featured article on the SP's Tank Trains, interesting. I mentioned it to one of the other customers and he said that recently he had seen some Tank Trains in a train going through Waxhall, N.C., just south of Charlotte. I'll have to keep an eye out for them. Take care, Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3015	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Protocol for Sale List

I have the list of mags from the Will Estes estate ready to go, is it ok to post it as an attachment to a BB message, or should I go the shorter message and if those who want a copy advise, I replay with attachment. In hardcopy, it is 2 pages, 8-point type in WORD 7. The rolling stock list will come later, it could be several more pages, depending on how I do it, but it is at least a month off. Thanks Much. DJE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3016	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: DCC and AC

> Dalessandro, David L TL13C wrote: > I am going to install the DCC electronics system and have some > killer > sounds coming from my 4-6-6-4. AC and DCC can be used however not at > the > same time. Pardon me for the intrusion, but DCC and AC are fully compatible and decoder installation diagrams are shown on Pages 64 and 65 of the book titled "Digital Command Control -- the comprehensive guide to DCC" written by Ames, Friberg, and Loizeaux. The book can be purchased from Amazon.com or the NMRA or in numerous hobby shops. Now you can have even more fun. "S"incerely, Ed Loizeaux

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3017	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: Protocol for Sale List

I would like to have a list of the magazines Larry Dave and Kathy Engle wrote: > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > > I have the list of mags from the Will Estes estate ready to go, is it ok > to post it as an attachment to a BB message, or should I go the shorter > message and if those who want a copy advise, I replay with attachment. > In hardcopy, it is 2 pages, 8-point type in WORD 7. The rolling stock > list will come later, it could be several more pages, depending on how I > do it, but it is at least a month off. Thanks Much. DJE > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? > http://www.onelist.com > More than 1,000! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3018	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: Modern Cars

Dear Stan, The UP also converted some of their 53'6" GSC flat cars to container service in the 60's. They were single stacked with two 20' containers. I also have a picture of a similar D&RGW 53'6" flatcar with a D&RGW 40' container with a refrigeration unit and another with two 20' containers.. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3019	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: comprehensive guide to DCC

The Digital Command Control - the comprehensive guide to DCC by Stan Ames, Rutger Friberg, Edward Loizeaux. Is available S-Trains / Amazon Bookstore. http://www.gate.net/~yorke/a_mr.html In the "Model Railroading" section. Paul Yorke American Flyer operator/Stereo Photographer S-Trains Mailing / http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains (Primary Email Yorke@... - Backup paulyork@...) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3020	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: Re: Modern Cars

Is there a 40ft flat car made? Like to convert to Sn42 for container service. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3021	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: modern freight car

Stan Stokrocki wrote snip > My concept is to do an 89 foot TTX car. I would pick a low-deck > version for an important reason; should future demand warrant, the > same car could be used under an auto-rack. At least in theory, a > suitable existing flat would make a future rack version more > feasible. Also, rather than clear-coating them, it should be just as > easy to bring them in painted yellow (and perhaps tuscan). The May Bulletin from the NMRA has pictures of 89 footers being used to haul pipe. I've seen them loaded with military equipment and long poles. 60 foot flats would be good too. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3022	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: 3rd Dash 9s

Stab wrote snip > If they do the Dash 9 in S, I'll be first in line. > Maybe we can organize some encouragement here. > A Dash 9 or Dash 8 would be great. 3rd rail makes a good looking O scale version so they have the info on hand. BTW what's 3rd rail's web URL. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3023	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: time warps, third rail, and art deco

in response to all the p.o.'d at S missives, i have to admit that i am almost a'maxrd out" with S-i have nearly everything i want, gilbert and lti production.i think it's a shame that big l is losing interest in S-i personally have little in the way of bitches about their product-the paint jobs are great and the power units that i have perform very well(i use a 30B).But there is only so much that can be done with the same dozen items!! i've diversified my trains into 0- contemporary STEAM production engines that interest me( commodore vandy, "763" hudson, torpedo ) postwar,and tinplate prewar(diecast streamliners,too) and wide gauge. i find the bright colors, blistering speed and cheerful disregard to scale plus their near-indestructible nature to be quite charming. as far as contemporary stuff(12"=1") goes,i really am not that interested at all. i build scale plastic model planes, and i am a rivet counter from the word "GO" in that area. i have much fun correcting kits, building cottage industry kits of arcane or unrepresented by the mainstream aircraft-i think nothing of diving into a czech kit that has die-cast,photo-etched, resin and vac-formed parts in addition to traditional styrene moldings.however, electric toy trains are another matter for me. if there are any new production S engines, my wants are solidly in the past-hey,that's where my rolling stock is from! i'd like to see-and would purchase- New Haven I class hudson(streamlined), dreyfuss hudson, PRR torpedo k-4, NYC electric J class steeple cab, NH box cab electric, Milwaukee Bi-polar, Daylight, zephyr,Comet-i'm hooked on the industrial Art Deco applications!!! the most modern motive power in my entire inventory is the NH EP-5.i have a couple of CT friends who feel very much the same-in fact, one of them has a set of engineering drawings for the above-mentioned New Haven Hudson, and has said he'd copy them for someone serious about producing it as a replacement body for flyer works, or a new production S or 0 engine. so that's what i'd like to see as a new S engine, and why-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3024	From: John Foley	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Message: 10 Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 12:22:13 +0000 From: sscale@... Subject: Re: Monster Steam Engines are needed!!!Brass or other > From: "Dalessandro, David L > > I started following the products that 3rdrail have been making and they are > doing a great job!! They are making the Zephyrs as well as a really nice > Mikado IN "S". They in the past have also done other S projects. It looks > like we may have venders right under our nose. If they do the Dash 9 in S, I'll be first in line. Maybe we can organize some encouragement here. Stan Stokrocki sscale@... Stan Scot at 3rd Rail told me that he would do anything they did in O in S. Including the Dash-9. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3025	From: John Foley	Date: 5/11/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail

> >Message: 24 > Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 16:02:19 -0400 > From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> >Subject: 3rd Dash 9s > > Stab wrote > snip > >> If they do the Dash 9 in S, I'll be first in line. >> Maybe we can organize some encouragement here. >> > > A Dash 9 or Dash 8 would be great. 3rd rail makes a good looking O scale version >so they have the info on hand. BTW what's 3rd rail's web URL. > cheers It's http://www.3rdrail.com/ John Foley > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3026	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 5/12/1999
Subject: Re: NON-INFORMED.....

>Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:49:42 EDT > From: Cbtrainnut@... >Subject: NON-INFORMED ON THIS SUBJECT > >Being the s-gauge kind of guy that I am,I have no idea what a resin kit >is.Can someone explain? Thanks >Chris Burger(cbtrainnut@...) "Resin" is a generic term used to indicate a two-part liquid which, when mixed, is poured into a mold, usually rubber, to create a part. Years ago, epoxy was used as the material, and it had many drawbacks. Today's resins - also grouped under the 'urethane' category - range from soft, pliable rubber to titanium paste. For model work, there are many different ones that capture detail well, have strength and flexibility, and are easy to use. A kit can be made with this material. Master patterns of the sides, ends, roof, floor, details, etc. are made from brass, styrene, wood, etc.; rubber molds are made around them using Room Temperature Vulcanizing rubber; then duplicate parts are cast in the molds. Positives from this process include low tooling costs which makes short run items possible and sometimes profitable. There is no huge outlay of money for injection machinery, etc. Variety is possible as the parts are all individual, so changing the ends, doors, etc. do not require major tooling changes. Negatives include having to use epoxy or ACC for assembly - styrene cements will not work. And the easiest way to make a car is to do a flat kit where the sides, ends, roof, etc are all separate parts. Some folks do not like this. Another negative is that it is a time-consuming process to pour a bunch of kits. Therefore, the unit cost is higher because of the amount of 'people-time' involved in the process.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3028	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/12/1999
Subject: Re: NON-INFORMED.....

Two more on the down side:::: One you need dry room with very low humidity Two I have never seen a model made that didn't have little air bubble holes in it unless it was vacuum when poured. I used to do urethane and also a urethane dealer told me about the dry room. Larry B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade wrote: > From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> > > >Message: 3 > > Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:49:42 EDT > > From: Cbtrainnut@... > >Subject: NON-INFORMED ON THIS SUBJECT > > > >Being the s-gauge kind of guy that I am,I have no idea what a resin kit > >is.Can someone explain? Thanks > >Chris Burger(cbtrainnut@...) > > "Resin" is a generic term used to indicate a two-part liquid which, when > mixed, is poured into a mold, usually rubber, to create a part. Years > ago, epoxy was used as the material, and it had many drawbacks. Today's > resins - also grouped under the 'urethane' category - range from soft, > pliable rubber to titanium paste. For model work, there are many > different ones that capture detail well, have strength and flexibility, > and are easy to use. > A kit can be made with this material. Master patterns of the sides, > ends, roof, floor, details, etc. are made from brass, styrene, wood, > etc.; rubber molds are made around them using Room Temperature > Vulcanizing rubber; then duplicate parts are cast in the molds. > Positives from this process include low tooling costs which makes short > run items possible and sometimes profitable. There is no huge outlay of > money for injection machinery, etc. Variety is possible as the parts are > all individual, so changing the ends, doors, etc. do not require major > tooling changes. > Negatives include having to use epoxy or ACC for assembly - styrene > cements will not work. And the easiest way to make a car is to do a flat > kit where the sides, ends, roof, etc are all separate parts. Some folks > do not like this. Another negative is that it is a time-consuming > process to pour a bunch of kits. Therefore, the unit cost is higher > because of the amount of 'people-time' involved in the process. > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > >Message: 4 > > Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 05:46:14 -0700 > > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > >Subject: Re: NON-INFORMED ON THIS SUBJECT > > > >Take a look in HO scale. There is a lot of resin kits there and most are not > >that great when compared to plastic. > >Larry > > That is a generality that is not valid. There have been some really > great plastic things done over the years, and some real trash. Depends > on who did the work and how much they wanted to spend doing it. > > Same thing applies to the resin kits. Spend the money to have good > masters made, spend the time to cast them correctly, and they look > great. Cut corners and you end up with trash. > > Take care, > Bill > > -- > =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ > Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer > Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 > B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com > S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com > Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Get involved. Share your thoughts! > http://www.onelist.com > Join the ONElist Weekly Survey. Go to homepage for details. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3029	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 5/12/1999
Subject: V&T Shops

Anyone have an email or fax number for V&T Shops? Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3030	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/13/1999
Subject: Re: Resin Kits

I have a few resin kits which I have been reluctant to start due to the questions of adhesives and the need for the castings to be absolutely clean and free of mold release stuff before painting. I mainly model in wood, or plastic kits. When I read the directions that came with the kits, (West Shore Line & Scenery Unlimited), I decided to build some Quality Craft and Super Scale kits first! I built some Locomotive Workshop cast PLASTIC (styrene?) kits back in the early '80's. These could be assembled with ordinary plastic cement. Being flat castings, they had the ability to swap ends, roofs, doors, etc., and were poured castings, not injection moldings requiring the big bucks for tooling. At that time, they had over a dozen different types of cars for sale. My question is: what happened to this technology, and why is it not being used today? A single sheathed boxcar (outside braced) should be easy, but I'd love an ACF covered hopper with the openings in the sides. Getting out the tube of Ambroid and the Kinsman express reefer, Bill Frazier Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 09:59:07 -0400 From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> Subject: Re: NON-INFORMED..... >Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 11 May 1999 07:49:42 EDT > From: Cbtrainnut@... >Subject: NON-INFORMED ON THIS SUBJECT > >Being the s-gauge kind of guy that I am,I have no idea what a resin kit >is.Can someone explain? Thanks >Chris Burger(cbtrainnut@...) "Resin" is a generic term used to indicate a two-part liquid which, when mixed, is poured into a mold, usually rubber, to create a part. Years ago, epoxy was used as the material, and it had many drawbacks. Today's resins - also grouped under the 'urethane' category - range from soft, pliable rubber to titanium paste. For model work, there are many different ones that capture detail well, have strength and flexibility, and are easy to use. A kit can be made with this material. Master patterns of the sides, ends, roof, floor, details, etc. are made from brass, styrene, wood, etc.; rubber molds are made around them using Room Temperature Vulcanizing rubber; then duplicate parts are cast in the molds. Positives from this process include low tooling costs which makes short run items possible and sometimes profitable. There is no huge outlay of money for injection machinery, etc. Variety is possible as the parts are all individual, so changing the ends, doors, etc. do not require major tooling changes. Negatives include having to use epoxy or ACC for assembly - styrene cements will not work. And the easiest way to make a car is to do a flat kit where the sides, ends, roof, etc are all separate parts. Some folks do not like this. Another negative is that it is a time-consuming process to pour a bunch of kits. Therefore, the unit cost is higher because of the amount of 'people-time' involved in the process.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3031	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/13/1999
Subject: Re: :Resin Kits and Locomotive Workshop

Dear Bill, If you are referring to the Locomotive Workshop 40' boxcars, I am sorry to report that they are indeed injected molded styrene. The owner, Jan Lorenzen, purchased an injection molder just for that project. He is a long time friend and I saw him making these in his shopin 1981. The reason the cost was so reasonable, was due to the tooling methods that he imployed. He used photoengraved magnesioum inserts, them he built up the rest of the moldings himself. Jan was also the first person I knew with computerized milling machines and engravers in the early 80's. Although his 40' boxcar was a needed addition to the gauge and an early hit (he sold a lot of them), it was short lived in popularity. The next year American Models came out with his shake the box predecorated 40' boxcars and Jan sales feel abruptly. In all fairness, Ron's car was light years in quality better than Jan's. You could make a nice looking car with Jan kit, but there was a lot of work ahead. Jeff Wilson of Hoquatt Hobbies purchsed Jan's remaining stock a few years later. He may some left. > From: Bilfrazier@... ......... I built some Locomotive Workshop cast PLASTIC (styrene?) kits back in the > early '80's. These could be assembled with ordinary plastic cement. Being > flat castings, they had the ability to swap ends, roofs, doors, etc., and > were poured castings, not injection moldings requiring the big bucks for > tooling. At that time, they had over a dozen different types of cars for sale. > My question is: what happened to this technology, and why is it not being > used today? A single sheathed boxcar (outside braced) should be easy, but I'd > love an ACF covered hopper with the openings in the sides. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3032	From: kelvin white	Date: 5/12/1999
Subject: Re: Modern Cars

In message <067601be9c33$56579c80$7364a8d8@baracing>, Andrew Baird <baracing@...> writes >From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > >Is there a 40ft flat car made? >Like to convert to Sn42 for container service. >Thank You >Andrew Baird >Nfld Rlwy > Hi Andrew Probalbly your best bet is cut down some plastic AF flatcars - The AM 46ft and SHS 52ft cars are dicast metal. Best regards -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3033	From: L Montgomery	Date: 5/13/1999
Subject: Train Watching in Baltimore Area

A few days ago someone posted a question regarding places to watch trains in the Baltimore/DC area. My personal favorite is go to Patapsco State Park on a weekday afternoon and park underneath the Thomas viaduct (built for the B&O in 1835 and still in use). Since it is at the convergence of two branches of the former B&O I usually see a train or two. You can climb up the hill to get to track level but that's probably trespassing. There are mileposts that show distances to Balto and Washington that clearly predate the current corporate limits. See http://www.clark.net/pub/jltoth/DC_trains_info.html for lots of useful info. Monty --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3034	From: Mark Preman	Date: 5/13/1999
Subject: Mid-Month Update

Due to the large volume of activity (incoming and outgoing), watch for a mid-month update at: http://www.americanflyertrains.com Mark B. Preman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3035	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/13/1999
Subject: Re: Modern Cars

How about the Rex flat car? > >From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > > > >Is there a 40ft flat car made? > >Like to convert to Sn42 for container service. > >Thank You > >Andrew Baird > >Nfld Rlwy -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3036	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/13/1999
Subject: Re: Rex flat cars

Dear Andrew, These were made by Rex (of Mogul and 0-6-0 fame) of Zamac in the early 50's. Much of their tooling was made by the Culp Bros. of Philadelphia, PA (who also made tooling for A.C. Gilbert). The detail is quite nice for a car with a Zamac deck. The underframe hass all of the bracing and the body bolster has rivets. I am not sure of the prototype, but the gondola they made was a Southern. The length is 501" and 41' 9" They made both a American Flyer compat. version and one for use with "scale" wheels. I see them every once in a while at shows. Maybe if you asked for one, you might get lucky.Andrew Baird wrote: > Which cars are those? > Andrew > >How about the Rex flat car? > > Don T. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3037	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/14/1999
Subject: DC area train things

Monty, thanks very much for the note and especially the links contained within.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3038	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 5/14/1999
Subject: PRR N-8 Decals

Hi folks, I am looking for a set of decals for a SouthWind PRR N-8 caboose. Des Plaines had a set (#PRR-5) but they no longer have any. Does anyone out there know of a set collecting dust? :) If i can't find one I will need to have a set made. In that case, does anyone have suggestions on who may be able to make them? I tried one HO/N/O decal mfg. that had N-8 sets in those scales but they were not interested in doing a run in S (even if i bought them all!). Thanks for any help, kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3039	From: John Foley	Date: 5/14/1999
Subject: S-Fest

Hi Folks Did you see the 1999 St.Louis S-Fest web yet. Check it out at. http://www.angelfire.com/mo/fallsfest John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3040	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 5/14/1999
Subject: Blessed are the flexible as they will not be bent out of shape

Help! Bill are you out in cyber space? I need some information on the turnouts you showed at the spree. Ken Zieska

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3041	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: MPSM Project Update (was MPSM BRASS)

Fellow MPSM modelers, It has been about a week since my "MPSM BRASS" post to you suggesting we organize ourselves to do a modern brass freight car project. There were some immediate responses to the positive along with several RE: postings from non-MPSM people suggesting alternatives to brass. The alternatives being cast resin "flat kits" and "multimedia kits". I'm in favor of these alternatives as I've already pledged my support towards the SUNNY CREEK MODELS SW 1500 multimedia kit project. Likewise, I would not want to see another modern project started which might detract from the SW 1500 project. However, an MPSM "group" project is something we could begin looking into now so that we're ready for implementation after the SW's arrive. This was the purpose for the original post. My thoughts on brass as a "group" project over the alternatives is that an importer (whom ever that my be) would hold and have full control of the capital moneys (our deposits). The model would carry the assurance of high quality and fidelity as already established by the importers reputation for quality products. Finally, the model would be ready for market on a timely basis as typical of brass imports. What "we" as a group would need to do is decide on a model and provide as much information (leg work) as possible of the prototype car such as, plans, prototype ownership, paint schemes, number series, car usage, etc. The importer would then (I presume?) carry the remaining burden of over-seeing production quality according to his standards along with the packaging and shipping. "Flat" or multimedia kits as a "group" project: PLEASE NOTE, it is not my intention to put these alternatives down, but as a "group project"? How many MPSM participants would be needed to under- take a project like this? How long would it take for "us" to bring a kit to market? Considering the points of kit "designing" for; tight fitting joints during assembly, good instruction sheets, the building up of master parts then the parts casting itself. What about the purchase of packaging material, bags, boxes etc. Who would be willing to pack these parts into kits and handle the orders with associated costs and shipping? Who has eight plus hours a day to do all these necessary steps? As I mentioned above, I do not intended to put down the alternative methods and FOR SURE, I have all the confidence that we posse all the expertise necessary within this group to perform the above tasks. My main concern here is TIME. And I think it IS time as well as important that we set a real campaign into an affirmative forward motion in favor of modern prototype S scale equipment. I also believe that in time, as S manufacturers witness our efforts and dedication to our own projects and goals, they will come around and begin offering the kind of models WE want. This in turn will promote and encourage new modelers to modern S railroading. Myself, I'd like to see something positive happen while I still have (or what's left of) my eye sight and physical dexterity. what do you MPSM folks say?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3042	From: Lance McKnight	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 236

There is a company named Rail Graphics that can make custom decals. They can take O scale decals and take a image of them to produce S scale decals. Going from HO up apparently does not work as well. I have not had this done yet, but I am considering it since L&N and N,C&StL are hard to find in S scale. Their web site is http://www.mcs.net/~railgraf/. Hope this helps. Lance McKnight >Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:14:30 -0400 > From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun) >Subject: PRR N-8 Decals > > >Hi folks, > >I am looking for a set of decals for a >SouthWind PRR N-8 caboose. Des Plaines had >a set (#PRR-5) but they no longer have any. > >Does anyone out there know of a set collecting >dust? :) > >If i can't find one I will need to have a set >made. In that case, does anyone have suggestions >on who may be able to make them? I tried one >HO/N/O decal mfg. that had N-8 sets in those >scales but they were not interested in doing a >run in S (even if i bought them all!). > >Thanks for any help, >kbt >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3043	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: resin kits

Thanks to everyone that replied to my question about what a resin kit is. Wow! I received an education this week! Bring on the plastic rtr cars for me! Thanks again. Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3044	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: #654 red door

Hi All, I 'm looking for a red door to fit on a #654 Obser.car. This car comes with one door that goes on the front right side. Look in your junk box to see if you have one, or let me know if someone have them as a repro item. It would be nice if the spring & the rod is on the door too. Thanks Guys, George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3045	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] MPSM Project Update (was MPSM BRASS)

Folks... Well, it finally happened. A natural "leader" has emerged who is interested in actually doing something rather than merely throwing out his "I wants" into the cyberspace hopper. I think Dave's efforts are laudable and would like to support him in all ways possible. However, it would seem that the first step is for everyone to agree on what the model should be. I haven't seen any group consensus yet. I don't know if a group agreement is even possible. I haven't seen anyone attempt to reconcile all the different "I wants" into one single specific model that 50 people would pledge to purchase. Can it be done? Who knows? Regarding brass vs. kits -- why not do one of each? Both have advantages and disadvantages, but so what? With all the complaining and grousing about the lack of modern stuff, it would seem that having two modern models under development simultaneously is not overkill. Maybe the MPSM'ers could actually develop a reputation for accomplishing something tangible -- like stimulating production of new products. In the brass area, there are three possible importers who would be willing to accept our money. Please don't try this without money since you will find success very elusive. The importers don't not need to have their time wasted. In the cast resin (or other materials) kit area, it seems that Billy Wade has sort of implied an offer. If I read between Billy's lines correctly, he has the ability and sub-contractors to produce kits. Billy's missing link, if I read him correctly, is the time to make the casting masters. I interpreted Billy's comments to mean that if the casting masters could be supplied, then he would be able to handle all other aspects of kit production. Sounds like a deal too good to pass up. Trying to coordinate efforts among a bunch of modelers of various skill levels, especially given the geographical distances, seems to me to be an effort very susceptible to failure. In any group of well meaning people, there are always several who talk a lot, but don't actually do what they promise. So Dave......why don't you pick a model or two that seems to have the best chance for a group consensus and put it up for a vote. Let's get the ball rolling. "S"incerely, Ed Loizeaux PatnDave wrote: > It has been about a week since my "MPSM BRASS" post to you suggesting > we > organize ourselves to do a modern brass freight car project. The > alternatives being > cast resin "flat kits" and "multimedia kits". > what do you MPSM folks say?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3046	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: TankTrain

>>Has there been any news on Russ Downs' TankTrain project? I bought a 4 car set at York. He sells a head-end and tail-end car (the "A" and the "B") which are simply hose fittings variations of the "C" or middle car. There are 2 numbers each in the end cars and ten numbers in the middle cars. Russ said he will make you 2 additional middle cars in the end car numbers which you are not using, so you can have a 14 car unit train all uniquely numbered. The basic A-B-C set of 3 is $150 with additional cars $50. In hi-rail, only one end of each of the A & B have operating couplers. The other end and both ends of all C cars have fixed couplers. The detail is the usual incredible level of Downs workmanship. I've seen an unpainted version. The tank has metal ends on a PVC tube body with brass and pewter detail castings. The catwalks and piping are brass. I don't know how he and the young man he has working for him assemble so many units, by hand, and offer them at a competitive price. A string of five (on his display) is a stunning sight. I can't wait to have fourteen. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3047	From: L Montgomery	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Schwanns Truck Offer

Hi, I sent in for a Schwanns truck already but I now have the two more proofs of purchase but not the mailer. The Schwanns driver didn't have a spare catalog. If someone could email me the info from the mailer, I'd appreciate it. TIA, Monty --- Fight Spam! Join CAUCE! == http://www.cauce.org/ Outlaw Junk Email! Support HR 1748. -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3048	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: PRR N-8 Decals

Dear Keith, Have you tried John Hall. He has made many sets of decals for middle atlantic railroads and had some PRR cabin car decals a few years back. His e-mail address is: johnhall@... Keith B. Thompson - Sun wrote: > > From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun) > > Hi folks, > > I am looking for a set of decals for a > SouthWind PRR N-8 caboose. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3049	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Re: Burlington reefers

> From: "Gerbasi" <kgerbasi@...> >Subject: MDT and RBBX > >Don't flame me, this really isn't off topic. > >Can anyone tell me if the Burlington Refrigerator Express cars as made >by AM, were "head end cars" (as I would expect from the paint scheme) >and ran in passenger trains as "Express Reefers," if they got special >handling but ran in freights or were just run in standard freights? > I sure don't see anything here to flame! Sounds to me like a model railroading topic! I have a copy of the Burlington Bulletin, #12, published by the CBQ Historical Society. This issue covers reefers. The green with yellow and black stripes livery was applied to 50 foot insulated box cars, to readily distinguish them from reefers. This fleet started in 1954, and grew to 850 cars in 6 years, due to popularity with shippers. Even though this paint scheme is inaccurate on a 40 foot car, it is such a striking scheme that I "had to have one!" This livery was also used on 50 and 60 foot cars with outside vertical braces, similar to the AM "modern" boxcar. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3050	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/15/1999
Subject: Rex Lo-Side Gon

>the body bolster has rivets. I am not sure of the prototype, but the >gondola they made was a Southern. I have a Rex lo-side Gon, and I have asked many people trying to discover the prototype. Obviously, these questions were pre-S Trains. Thanks Don for the answer. NOW, does anybody know if there is a prototype photo on-line? Did other roads have similar cars? I also have some of the Rex flats, so I would be interested in knowing prototypes for these. Thanks, Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3051	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: 654 doors

In a message dated 5/16/99 4:33:28 AM, you wrote: <<I 'm looking for a red door to fit on a #654 Obser.car. This car comes with one door that goes on the front right side. Look in your junk box to see if you have one, or let me know if someone have them as a repro item. It would be nice if the spring & the rod is on the door too. >> We carry replacement doors, as well as the entire bulkhead assembly that holds them. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 66-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 48 page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3052	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: MPSG modern brass poll

Dear Modern Prototype S Group members, Our MPSG leader, Alex Binkley reminded me that not all members of this group subscribe to the S-Trains or Proto64 lists and therefore are not receiving time sensitive information. So, if you are receiving this for the first time PLEASE read and give your full consideration (or reconsideration) to the subject presented and PLEASE DO RESPOND either way, for or against. Your reply for or against is a deviation from the original post as you'll see below but at least this way I'll know everyone was informed. Also, if you know of other MPSG members without E-mail, please inform them as well and I'll be sending hard copies VIA regular mail to those I know are not on our list. (side note: I need to get accustom to our minor change in the name of our group from modern prototype s modelers to Modern Prototype S Group) TO ALL MODERN PROTOTYPE S MODELERS- For those that have read my recent post to this list and associated replies entitled "P-Oed with S", you might recall Ed Loizeaux's posted suggestion and closing statement. His closing statement was; <"Merely grousing among yourselves on the internet will not accomplish anything. It is a waste of time."> This complaining among ourselves is not just recent nor am I the only one that feels this way. Ed's suggestion is not new ,as he explained, nor is this the first time he suggested it to us. His explanation and suggestion is as follows: <"Has anyone in the MPSM SIG considered choosing a r-e-a-l-l-y popular modern model, obtaining deposit money (60 units), and then approaching the brass importers to have 100 units made in brass? This is exactly what the NYC and PRR enthusiasts did in years gone by. They organized themselves and communicated their desires in a way guaranteed to make importers listen. As a NYC enthusiast, I now enjoy Hudsons, Mohawks, Niagaras, USRA light Mikes, USRA 0-8-0 -- not to mention every first generation diesel that was truly common on the NYC. The Pennsy guys can tell a similar story."> <"We obtained photographs, prototype blueprints from the historical societies, deposits from customers, and forwarded all of it to several different brass importers over the years. The technique works and I would certainly urge the MPSM folks to give it a try. While this approach might not be feasible for plastic models, it sure works for the brass pieces."> I considered this approach In the past but was reluctant to suggest it due the low numbers of modern modelers and the even lower numbers of brass buyers. Also, just the word..... -"BRASS"- instills reluctance and even refusal to purchase to many because it is expensive. I grant you, it is expensive but models are not hand crafted of brass for the rich and famous or for pride and prestige of ownership, rather it is because brass is the best and lowest cost medium to produce a low number run of a product not otherwise likely to be done in comparison to cutting molds for plastic. I am not wealthy and can hardly afford brass myself but I'll support a brass project when I know it's something I will have use for. And since I limit myself to models useable to me for the modern / contemporary era, I consider it a good deal as I spend so little over a years time as new so-called modern equipment is so slow in becoming available. So...at this point, I am interested in learning just from this list alone, (for the time being) how many will reply with (only) positive feed-back (please) to the following: 1. Do you want to become an organized group to get modern equipment? (In brass as explained above) answer-y/n 2. Are you willing to help in a managerial/committee capacity? answer-y/n 3. Are you willing to help fund a project with deposit money? answer-y/n For a cost base consideration, I'd suggest a first scenario project be a freight car for the lowest initial cost. Dave Bailey, MPSM Advocate From: "patndave" <patndave@...> Fellow MPSM modelers, It has been about a week since my "MPSM BRASS" post to you suggesting we organize ourselves to do a modern brass freight car project. There were some immediate responses to the positive along with several RE: postings from non-MPSM people suggesting alternatives to brass. The alternatives being cast resin "flat kits" and "multimedia kits". I'm in favor of these alternatives as I've already pledged my support towards the SUNNY CREEK MODELS SW 1500 multimedia kit project. Likewise, I would not want to see another modern project started which might detract from the SW 1500 project. However, an MPSM "group" project is something we could begin looking into now so that we're ready for implementation after the SW's arrive. This was the purpose for the original post. My thoughts on brass as a "group" project over the alternatives is that an importer (whom ever that my be) would hold and have full control of the capital moneys (our deposits). The model would carry the assurance of high quality and fidelity as already established by the importers reputation for quality products. Finally, the model would be ready for market on a timely basis as typical of brass imports. What "we" as a group would need to do is decide on a model and provide as much information (leg work) as possible of the prototype car such as, plans, prototype ownership, paint schemes, number series, car usage, etc. The importer would then (I presume?) carry the remaining burden of over-seeing production quality according to his standards along with the packaging and shipping. "Flat" or multimedia kits as a "group" project: PLEASE NOTE, it is not my intention to put these alternatives down, but as a "group project"? How many MPSM participants would be needed to under- take a project like this? How long would it take for "us" to bring a kit to market? Considering the points of kit "designing" for; tight fitting joints during assembly, good instruction sheets, the building up of master parts then the parts casting itself. What about the purchase of packaging material, bags, boxes etc. Who would be willing to pack these parts into kits and handle the orders with associated costs and shipping? Who has eight plus hours a day to do all these necessary steps? As I mentioned above, I do not intended to put down the alternative methods and FOR SURE, I have all the confidence that we posse all the expertise necessary within this group to perform the above tasks. My main concern here is TIME. And I think it IS time as well as important that we set a real campaign into an affirmative forward motion in favor of modern prototype S scale equipment. I also believe that in time, as S manufacturers witness our efforts and dedication to our own projects and goals, they will come around and begin offering the kind of models WE want. This in turn will promote and encourage new modelers to modern S railroading. Myself, I'd like to see something positive happen while I still have (or what's left of) my eye sight and physical dexterity. what do you MPSM folks say? Thank you in advance for your cooperation! Dave Bailey, MPSM Advocate PS Please, don't forget to reply...for or against

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3053	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: MPSG modern brass poll

When I was in S scale I attempted to do a B-40-8 the way you are proposing to do this brass in plastic and would retail for less than $250. I got about 20 taker who put up $100 each as a deposit. I think you are flogging a dead horse in hope of resurrecting it. The only way you are going to get modern equipment is to get someone who has the money like Don or Ron S. who wants to do these on their own. Even the hopper program of Mr Craft fell through for some reason and took Ron S. to complete it. Larry PatnDave wrote: > From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...> > > Dear Modern Prototype S Group members, > Our MPSG leader, Alex Binkley reminded me that not all members of this group > subscribe to the S-Trains or Proto64 lists and therefore are not receiving > time sensitive information. So, if you are receiving this for the first time > PLEASE read and give your full consideration (or reconsideration) to the > subject presented and PLEASE DO RESPOND either way, for or against. Your > reply for or against is a deviation from the original post as you'll see > below but at least this way I'll know everyone was informed. Also, if you > know of other MPSG members without E-mail, please inform them as well and > I'll be sending hard copies VIA regular mail to those I know are not on our > list. > (side note: I need to get accustom to our minor change in the name of our > group from modern prototype s modelers to Modern Prototype S Group) > > TO ALL MODERN PROTOTYPE S MODELERS- > For those that have read my recent post to this list and associated replies > entitled "P-Oed with S", you might recall Ed Loizeaux's posted suggestion > and closing statement. His closing statement was; > > <"Merely grousing among yourselves on the internet will not accomplish > anything. It is a waste of time."> > > This complaining among ourselves is not just recent nor am I the only one > that feels this way. Ed's suggestion is not new ,as he explained, nor is > this the first time he suggested it to us. His explanation and suggestion is > as follows: > > <"Has anyone in the MPSM SIG considered choosing a r-e-a-l-l-y popular > modern model, obtaining deposit money (60 units), and then approaching > the brass importers to have 100 units made in brass? This is exactly > what the NYC and PRR enthusiasts did in years gone by. They organized > themselves and communicated their desires in a way guaranteed to make > importers listen. As a NYC enthusiast, I now enjoy Hudsons, Mohawks, > Niagaras, USRA light Mikes, USRA 0-8-0 -- not to mention every first > generation diesel that was truly common on the NYC. The Pennsy guys can > tell a similar story."> > <"We obtained photographs, prototype blueprints from the historical > societies, deposits from customers, and forwarded all of it to several > different brass importers over the years. The technique works and I > would certainly urge the MPSM folks to give it a try. While this > approach might not be feasible for plastic models, it sure works for the > brass pieces."> > > I considered this approach In the past but was reluctant to suggest it due > the low numbers of modern modelers and the even lower numbers of brass > buyers. Also, just the word..... -"BRASS"- instills reluctance and even > refusal to purchase to many because it is expensive. I grant you, it is > expensive but models are not hand crafted of brass for the rich and famous > or for pride and prestige of ownership, rather it is because brass is the > best and lowest cost medium to produce a low number run of a product not > otherwise likely to be done in comparison to cutting molds for plastic. I am > not wealthy and can hardly afford brass myself but I'll support a brass > project when I know it's something I will have use for. And since I limit > myself to models useable to me for the modern / contemporary era, I consider > it a good deal as I spend so little over a years time as new so-called > modern equipment is so slow in becoming available. > So...at this point, I am interested in learning just from this list alone, > (for the time being) how many will reply with (only) positive feed-back > (please) to the following: > > 1. Do you want to become an organized group to get modern equipment? (In > brass as explained above) answer-y/n > 2. Are you willing to help in a managerial/committee capacity? answer-y/n > 3. Are you willing to help fund a project with deposit money? answer-y/n > > For a cost base consideration, I'd suggest a first scenario project be a > freight car for the lowest initial cost. > > Dave Bailey, MPSM Advocate > > From: "patndave" <patndave@...> > Fellow MPSM modelers, > It has been about a week since my "MPSM BRASS" post to you suggesting we > organize ourselves to do a modern brass freight car project. There were some > immediate responses to the positive along with several RE: postings from > non-MPSM people suggesting alternatives to brass. The alternatives being > cast resin "flat kits" and "multimedia kits". > I'm in favor of these alternatives as I've already pledged my support > towards the SUNNY CREEK MODELS SW 1500 multimedia kit project. Likewise, I > would not want to see another modern project started which might detract > from the SW 1500 project. > However, an MPSM "group" project is something we could begin looking into > now so that we're ready for implementation after the SW's arrive. This was > the purpose for the original post. > My thoughts on brass as a "group" project over the alternatives is that an > importer (whom ever that my be) would hold and have full control of the > capital moneys (our deposits). The model would carry the assurance of high > quality and fidelity as already established by the importers reputation for > quality products. Finally, the model would be ready for market on a timely > basis as typical of brass imports. What "we" as a group would need to do is > decide on a model and provide as much information (leg work) as possible of > the prototype car such as, plans, prototype ownership, paint schemes, number > series, car usage, etc. The importer would then (I presume?) carry the > remaining burden of over-seeing production quality according to his > standards along with the packaging and shipping. > "Flat" or multimedia kits as a "group" project: PLEASE NOTE, it is not my > intention to put these alternatives down, but as a "group project"? How many > MPSM participants would be needed to under- take a project like this? How > long would it take for "us" to bring a kit to market? Considering the points > of kit "designing" for; tight fitting joints during assembly, good > instruction sheets, the building up of master parts then the parts casting > itself. What about the purchase of packaging material, bags, boxes etc. Who > would be willing to pack these parts into kits and handle the orders with > associated costs and shipping? Who has eight plus hours a day to do all > these necessary steps? > As I mentioned above, I do not intended to put down the alternative methods > and FOR SURE, I have all the confidence that we posse all the expertise > necessary within this group to perform the above tasks. My main concern here > is TIME. And I think it IS time as well as important that we set a real > campaign into an affirmative forward motion in favor of modern prototype S > scale equipment. I also believe that in time, as S manufacturers witness > our efforts and dedication to our own projects and goals, they will come > around and begin offering the kind of models WE want. This in turn will > promote and encourage new modelers to modern S railroading. > Myself, I'd like to see something positive happen while I still have (or > what's left of) my eye sight and physical dexterity. > what do you MPSM folks say? > Thank you in advance for your cooperation! > > Dave Bailey, MPSM Advocate > > PS Please, don't forget to reply...for or against > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Are you hogging all the fun? > http://www.onelist.com > Friends tell friends about ONElist! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3054	From: jdoran	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: auto switch-success I think

Well I've got half of it working anyway. I used the 697 trip and set up a stopping section after the train is off the trip. That worked great to stop the train and not fry the switch. I then tried to connect the entry switch to the same trip to throw both at once but when I did both switches tried to throw even though the trip was open. Don't ask me why but there is some leakage through the trip when you do that, not enough to throw the switches, but enough that you can hear the solenoids trying to activate. If I closed the trip while that was happening both switches threw. The solution is to place another trip in the same track section immediately before the trip that throws the exit switch for that siding. The first trip is wired to thriow the entry switch. Obviously both have to be placed so that the whole train has cleared the entry switch before it throws. This only works when the trains are running in the same direction and doubles the number of trips that you need. Another possible solution is to have a trip activate a relay that has a built in delay that will allow the train to clear the trip before throwing the exit switch. Havn't really pursued that yet but I know those relays existfor about $12-15 each. Might be a player as the 697s I've seen at the shows are horribly expensive. The four that I have I got for about $2 @ 25 years ago. The only other thing I found is that it simplifies things if you have a separate power supply for the switches. I think in the long run using a #11/2 transformer to power the switches for this thing will work better that trying to do it from the transformers that supply the track power. Don't forget to phase them. If anybody can explain what's going on when I tried both switches off the same trip I'd love to hear it. I've got two of these I want to set up and I suddenly ran out of trips for the second loop. For Tom, I'd still like to get that information when you get moved. And does anyone have a parts list for the electronic track trip that is described in the AF repair manual. The parts he talks about don't seem to exist a Radio Shack anymore. Thanks again for the help. I'll update this when I get the other siding working Doc

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3055	From: Gf3897@aol.com	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: Painting by the numbers...

Hi all...I'm trying to re-paint an AF #499 New Haven EP5......anyone have any idea as to availabilty of the decals...secondly, can anyone recommend a good gude to painting plastic trains, models, etc? I've been told this restoration shouldnt be attempted by an amateur.....in the words of the immortal Billy Martin.."I didn't punch that doggie"....... Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3056	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Freight Car "Assignments"

These notes were on Proto 64, but not on S Trains. They are good reading! Ted Larson ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Proto:64 web site is located at: http://www.trainweb.org/proto64/ _______________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:17:50 -0400 From: "Jeff English" <englij@...> Subject: The Great Dictator's Freight Car Assignments I sent the following comments to Jeff Madden re his editorial in the NASG Dispatch: Because some people are going to think seriously about your suggestions (Jeff's Junction, April Dispatch), I think it is appropriate to elaborate on some of them so that misunderstandings can be avoided. When selecting prototypes and deciding how accurately to represent them in model form, all S manufacturers need to look very closely at the level of fidelity and detail which has become the de facto standard in HO in recent years. If new S products are not comparable to these current HO products, we'll never attract many folks to switch to S, which otherwise has inherent advantages over HO in terms of prototype accuracy. First, regarding the Pullman-Standard PS-1 box car, there are a wide range of variations over the production time of these cars, which S manufacturers should take into account when making production decisions. A few examples: early production roofs had the "bow tie" raised impression in all panels except the end ones, while after some point aorund 1950 all panels end-to-end had bow ties. Most PS-1s were all-welded, but some (C&NW comes to mind) had riveted-panel sides like an AAR standard car. Some cars had end panels riveted in place rather than welded, presumably to make it easier to replace damaged ends in repair shops. The six little rectangles at the top of the end did not appear until a year or two into production. Configuration of side sill tabs varied. And of course there were many variations of door types, in widths of 6, 7, 8 and 9 feet. And we're only talking about 40-foot cars! If you want 50-foot cars, or later, more modern derivatives, that's a whole different model product. I believe that even in S scale there should be room for more than one manufacturer to participate. No one company could be expected to wade through all these variations, so why not let an early-production 6-foot door version be made by one company and somebody else could do a later version with 8-foot doors. Availability of just those two would give kitbashers plenty of opportunity to fill in the gaps still remaining, and this approach would help "spread the wealth" among our small suppliers while likely expanding sales beyond that achievable by one maker. As for your other "asignments", I believe some additional specificity would help manufacturers avoid fatal errors that could render their work unattractive to prototype modelers. Here are my comments: * 40' steel 40s/50s steel reefer: the PFE R-40-10 would be a good choice, since several other private owners had cars following the same design. * 3-dome 10,000-gallon tank car: there are some specific tank car underframe designs upon which any number of tanks can be placed, and tanks tend to be pretty generic, especially in comparison with under frames. The three main builders, GATX, UTLX and ACF all had distinct underframes, all of which need to be made available in S scale. * 40' gondola: lots of leeway here. The USRA gondola was quite widespread and was made in both composite and all-steel versions, and then there's the PRR G22 and a host of others * ACF square-hatch covered hopper with cutout: now you're getting very specific and an excellent choice since a huge number of different paint schemes would be prototypically accurate to apply to such a model. * steam-era hoppers: the USRA is the obvious choice here, but I'm afraid they were only 30'6" long, not 32 feet. Not sure if you're suggesting a 36-foot USRA car or just a 36-foot steam-era car, but the New York Central had tens of thousands of cars built to the USRA triple hopper design (which was never built for the USRA itself). I'm not sure about 36-foot twin hoppers, but I believe that would be an oddity relative to other prototypes that are much more common and sorely needed. It should be noted, however, that there are plenty of common variations of offset twin, triple and quad hoppers that have yet to be manufactured in S scale. The PRR H21 quad has to be mentioned because all eastern modelers need a bunch of these on their layout, no matter even if you are modeling the NYC. They were that numerous and went everywhere in the east. * all-wood reefer: this is a good idea and I would nominate the ACF Type 3 as the best initial choice. Others to follow could include Mather meat reefers and Santa Fe fans would love a USRA reefer, since SFRD's fleet was based on that design from the 20s to the post-World-War-II era. * 8,000-gallon single-dome tank car: another excellent suggestion, but <please> make it a different prototype underframe from the three-dome above. * 40' double sheathed box car: again the obvious choice is the USRA, although the NYC 1916-design would be a strong candidate too - they had over 30,000 if you count the steel-side version, and then there are modernized variations (this is true for the USRA too). * cabooses: I'm not going to comment on specific choices, but only point out that this is one car type where one design was seldom used by more than one railroad (before International Car Co. came along) and this makes it difficult to justify plastic production models. * X29: there seems to be a lot of misinformation out there about these cars. Point one: like the H21 (above) everybody needs several X29s regardless of what railroad they are modeling, coast- to-coast. Point two: there are at least four variations of X29, and the ARA steel car (your "B&O version") was so similar, owned by several railroads, and adds several more variations. A manufacturer should take into account a) how to produce some of these variations, or b) how to avoid making it difficult for kitbashers to make the variations from a single production model. * 50' door-and-a-half outside-braced box car: a very good suggestion, but variations abound and one has to be picked. SP, MILW, IC, WAB and others had large fleets. Another one that needs more careful thought, and I don't have it all at my fingertips. * round-roof double-door box cars: there weren't really as many of these as some people seem to think, but I'm not going to discourage people from making one! Again, there were variations, but I believe D&H, DT&I and LV cars were all second-hand from the PRR. SAL bought new ones which I think were different from Pennsy, and I forget who else may have had such cars. I'll leave the modern freight cars and passenger cars for somebody else to comment on. Thanks, Jeff, for putting some suggestions on the table. It's bound to get people talking, and that can only make things happen that wouldn't have happened otherwise, and better than they would have otherwise. --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York --------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 22:17:50 -0400 From: "Jeff English" <englij@...> Subject: Re: PS-1 Keith Thompson in Seattle wrote: > I didn't even notice the problems with the wrong number of > side panels until someone pointed it out to me. However, the symmetrical > 3'5" roof panels and the fish belly side sills are just as much a part > of the PS-1 as are the ends. I don't understand about wrong number of panels. The PRS cars and most PS-1s have 10-panel sides, which is to say there are five panels to each side of the door. The difference is that the AAR cars as modeled by PRS are riveted panels while most PS-1s have welded seams. Also, while lots of PS-1s had fishbelly side sills, especially later ones, just about all of the earlier production had tab side sills. There are many variations of PS-1, and we can't expect all of them to be produced by one mfr as one project. Getting just one version produced would open up opportunities for kitbashers to make other variations if they can't wait for subsequent issues. --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York --------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 17:07:43 -0400 From: "Jeff English" <englij@...> Subject: Re: PS-1 Ted Larson wrote: > > I agree Keith, it would be nice to have a PS-1. > I am concerned though whether there are enough > people who think that it is enough different from > the dreadnought end cars to support production. I believe that making different cars available is the way to educate folks about how cars are different. This needs to be talked about at every opportunity so people are exposed to the rich history of freight car evolution. > I suspect the most viable method is if PacRail > could put PS-1 ends on their 40 and 50 cars, similar to > how they offered an alternate style roof for some 40' cars. Without doing a lot of research to back myself up, I don't think this would be at all correct. More below. > > Do you know, are the sides and roofs the same for > a PS-1 as for other PacRail cars? For 99% of PS-1s the answer is no, but there were a few PS-1s built with riveted side panels (most notably for C&NW), but I'm not sure if the configuration is the same as the AAR (as modeled by PRS). There's also the matter of side-sill tabs, which I doubt would be the same since the entire underframe arrangement is different. The P-S roof was unique to Pullman-Standard and there were at least two variations over the production span of the 40-ft PS-1s, but they are so similar it would not be hard for persnickety modelers to kit bash the one from the other <if> the mfr chooses the right one to make (conversion the opposite way would be possible but significantly more involved). > Since PacRail was > willing to do a different roof, which I suspect was much > less used than PS ends, they should be able to do the > PS ends. Seems to me the market for PS ends should > be much greater than the market for the alternate > (Hutchins?) roof was. I think the whole idea of trying to make a few P-S parts to fit on the PRS shell is ill advised. The result would not be a very accurate model of a PS-1. I agree that it would be folly for S manufacturers to produce new models willy nilly in the face of limited demand, but on the other hand, the key to increasing demand is to make products that are attractive to potential converts from HO. I'm going to keep beating this drum, that every single S scale product has to be compared with the current state-of-the-art in HO and do better than that. I'm not saying that S scale needs to have all the same variations of PS-1 that are currently available in HO (from 3 different manufacturers no less!), but if we have only one version of a PS-1 (and that would be enough for me for the time being), it had better be an excellent model of whatever particular version is chosen so that it trumps the HO equivalent, taking advantage of the inherent advantages of S scale over HO. We've been seeing some new freight cars lately that don't even come close to the standard that has been set by HO manufacturers, and this is getting depressing. --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling englij@... | R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D | Route of the Whippet --------------------------------------------------------------- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3057	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: a brass NKP Berk?

And yes, its time for another (probably) stupid question from your resident newbie. I just got back from a 10 day video shoot on Conrail and Norfolk Southern between Cleveland and Buffalo (for Kalmbach's TRAINS ON LOCATION prototype railroad video series). One of our hosts in Cleveland was an NS yardmaster who turned out to be an O-gauger (scale, not Lionel). He mentioned, in passing, that he'd heard talk about a brass S-gauge NKP Berkshire. Apparently the company responsible is made up of New York Central and Nickel Plate enthusiasts who favor NYC and NKP steamers (go figure). I can't remember the name of the people involved, but I'm curious: Is there, indeed, a brass S-gauge NKP Berk in the works? And are the same folks contemplating a brass NYC J3a Hudson? Sidebar: One way to get Central and Nickel Plate fans fired up is to ask them which engine--NKP Berk or NYC J3a--is the most beautiful American steam engine every built. The question, mind you, isn't whether they are the most beautiful of ALL North American steamers; Central and NKP fans don't consider other engines worthy of comparison. No, the question is which one of THESE two engines (and only these two) is the most atractive. Oh yes, I stopped in a toy train store in a suburb of Erie, PA (where General Electric builds 1:1 scale diesels) and bought an LTI/AF NKP covered hopper to commemorate my visit to the old NKP. Its a tradition I'd like to continue whenever I travel (I suspect I may have a hard time finding an S-gauge Great Northern car when we shoot BNSF's Marias Pass, however). Paul Schneider San Francisco, CA _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3058	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: a brass NKP Berk?

Paul: Nothing to get fired up about. The J3a was the most attractive steam engine ever built. No doubt, no question, no argument. Appreciate your asking! Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3059	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Schwan's

Anybody got some extra (2) proof of purchase seals from Schwans? (and the address to send them to?) Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3060	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Rex Lo-Side Gon

> I have a Rex lo-side Gon, and I have asked many people trying > to discover the prototype. Obviously, these questions were > pre-S Trains. Thanks Don for the answer. NOW, does anybody > know if there is a prototype photo on-line? Did other roads > have similar cars? > > Ted Larson The "D&H Color Guide to Freight & Passenger Equipment" has a photo of a similar-looking car in D&H wheel service (although it appears to have a fishbelly center sill). I recall seeing a similar car in Maine Central paint in RMC some years ago. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3061	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 5/16/1999
Subject: Re: MPSM Brass (att: Dave Bailey)

> Scot at 3rd Rail told me that he would do anything they did in O > in S. Including the Dash-9. > > John Foley I"d be willing to help organize a project, but rather than starting from scratch the first the first time out, why not try and get something going with 3rd Rail? Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3062	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: footprints

Just leveled my layout, so renovation can begin to accomodate some recently acquired/refurbished accessories. But I also want this time to plan better for the future (hopefully, if prices don't get too high). Do any of you have the dimensions for the milk stand that goes with a 973, the 785 coal loader (I think it's 5x5 footprint), and the 23976 sawmill? Thank you!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3063	From: Scott Brown	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 238

I'm still rather new to S gauge and am having a heck of a problem with my PA motors. It seems the engine would run slow at starup, then pick up speed for a while , then slow down and stop altogether. I took it all apart and cleaned everything like we all had discussed here last month. Now the front motor runs like the devil, but the rear motor won't even budge. I checked all the wire connections and looked in my Greenberg repair and operating manual where I found I had installed the brush holder assembly incorrectly. The armature will turn freely by hand under power, but no go. My friend loaned me another engine and I am having the same slow start, run fast, fade and die symptoms with it. I have to run my 16B at full throttle to get it to move. I imagine the bushings need to be redone, but is there anything else I am not understanding ? Is there a better repair manual out there ? The Greenberg one gives very little info on repairing diesels except for the rebushing process. I'm sure I could sent it out to Doug to fix, but it would be more gratifying to know how to fix it myself. Personaly I wish I could just replace the AF motors with can ones. Then I wouldn't have this problem. Thanks Scott Brown sbrown@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3064	From: MILAYMAN@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: 21813 Baldwin Switcher

Just acquired above and three red strip passenger cars. No broken steps or body screw damage. Problem: I oiled the wheels (very dry). I got oil on the two rubber tire drive wheels. Three cars equal the pulling power of the switcher with oil on the rubber tires. I have tried to wipe the oil off. Little help! Is there a substance which is a degreasing agent which increases tire traction. I don't lthink adding weight will solve the problem! Set is an excellent example of the 59-60 period and I would like to leave it on the layout track. It has the swith for changing direction.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3065	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 238

Scott, Well, first, replacing with a can motor just gives you a different set of problems, and the can motors run on DC, so you'd have to either change to DC or put in an electronic reverse unit (they actually put out DC to the motor(s)). You need more information to correctly analyze this problem. An ammeter on your power output would be useful, as will a voltmeter. Since both locomotives act identically, maybe there's a transformer problem?? Since one motor is a no-go, you need to check it for continuity (using an ohm meter--Radio Shack sells some pretty cheap, if you don't have one, or can't borrow one). It could be that you have a bad armature, or a field problem. It is likely that the locomotives need re-bushing, but that's not always true. How much play is there in the wheels (up and down mostly)? Sometimes these things can be so frustrating, but so rewarding when you finally figure it out! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3066	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: chrome plating

Doug, Can you plate metal as well as plastic AF shells? If so, what's the price per piece? Thanks. Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3067	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Mississippi River Backdrop Painting

Sylas Kayle, a.k.a. Dave Jasper spent the day Saturday painting the backdrop of the Minneapolis skyline behind my NP Truss bridge crossing of the Mississippi River. What a fantastic work of art he has created! Those of you on the "Packard Scale" layout tour this July at the Lake Special '99 NASG convention have quite a treat awaiting you. I could not quite fit in the famous James J. Hill Stone Arch bridge on my layout with everything else I'm trying to get in place, so Dave put it in the background of the painting, along with the St Anthony Falls lock and dam and the mighty Mississippi. I'm dubious about whether my modeling skills can come close to match! I look forward to meeting with many of you at the convention. Those of you who have not yet signed up, I hope you will take another look at your summer plans and take a shot at coming to Minnesota. Walt Jopke

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3068	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Footprints

The platform for the 973 milk car is 2 1/2" x 5", and the 23796 sawmill is 6 7/8" x 10 3/8". Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3069	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Questions/answers

Several recent postings have asked questions about Flyer maintenance/repair. Doc Doran's 697 track trip: Perhaps the trip is not wired correctly. If it works when one switch is connected, connect the second switch to the first switch rather than the trip. The trip has three terminals:C (common), NC (normally closed) and NO (normally open). When no train is present, C is connected to NC. When a train passes, this connection is broken and C is connected to NO, until the train passes by when it reverts to original position. Perhaps you connected the second switch to the NC terminal. Scott Brown's PA: Since the second motor's armature turns freely, there is an electrical fault, an interruption in the flow of electricity. Try to find it by close observation. Sometimes soldered connections become corroded over time. There may be a broken wire. One of the soldered connections to the field may be faulty. One of the connections to the brushes may be bad, or the connection of a brush to its arm may be blocked by corrosion. Most likely however is that you broke one or more of the fine wire leads from the armature coils to the commutator plates. This can be fixed by unwinding one turn from the broken coil, scraping off the enamel insulation, and resoldering the wire to the commutator. �ontinuity testing is very different to do on a double motor loco unless you disconnect one of the motors, which is a lot of work and damage to inflict. It may not be necessary. There also may be a problem with the transformer, since 2 locos don't perform. Try another transformer. MILAYMAN's Baldwin diesel: pulmor tires can be degreased with mineral spirits, but it is not a good idea to degrease them completely, as they can dry out and become brittle. The problem with the Baldwin's pulling power : first , it has a very flimsy motor and second, it does need added weight to pull its best since it is so light, even having an aluminum frame. Do lubricate the cars you want it to pull and the unpowered truck to reduce the load on the motor Watch out for the motor. They tend to overheat. Tom Jarcho.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3070	From: JTMGoBlue@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: AF Transformer Question

Greetings, I have an 18B transformer that is confusing me. It is set opposite of the ones I have seen in that the outer lights are green and the middle one is red. The outer are also on a variable setting, increasing in intensity as the throttle speed is increased. Do I have some kind of factory variation or has this been subject to someone's creativity? Thanks, Terry MacEwen

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3071	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: AF Transformer Question

Sounds to me like his transformer is wired wrong internaly. On my transformer the green lights are constantly bright. With a short circuit they go out and the red one comes on. Any other thoughts guys. Roger > > I have an 18B transformer that is confusing me. It is set opposite of the > ones I have seen in that the outer lights are green and the middle one is > red. The outer are also on a variable setting, increasing in intensity as the > throttle speed is increased. > > Do I have some kind of factory variation or has this been subject to > someone's creativity? > > Thanks, > > Terry MacEwen > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Are you hogging all the fun? > http://www.onelist.com > Friends tell friends about ONElist! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3072	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: GE44T/25T

Anyone have either a 44T or 25T endcab up for grabs? Or where to find these locos. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy Canada --

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3073	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 236

Don Manlick is another Chicago area source who advertises in the mags. Out this way, we have Tom Stolte, dba Oddballs Custom Decals, McLouth, Kansas, about 40 miles west of Kansas City area; Tom is on the web somewhere, though I don't have his address handy. Lance McKnight wrote: > From: Lance McKnight <ljmcknight@...> > > There is a company named Rail Graphics that can make custom decals. They > can take O scale decals and take a image of them to produce S scale decals. > Going from HO up apparently does not work as well. I have not had this done > yet, but I am considering it since L&N and N,C&StL are hard to find in S > scale. Their web site is http://www.mcs.net/~railgraf/. Hope this helps. > > Lance McKnight > > >Message: 2 > > Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 11:14:30 -0400 > > From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun) > >Subject: PRR N-8 Decals > > > > > >Hi folks, > > > >I am looking for a set of decals for a > >SouthWind PRR N-8 caboose. Des Plaines had > >a set (#PRR-5) but they no longer have any. > > > >Does anyone out there know of a set collecting > >dust? :) > > > >If i can't find one I will need to have a set > >made. In that case, does anyone have suggestions > >on who may be able to make them? I tried one > >HO/N/O decal mfg. that had N-8 sets in those > >scales but they were not interested in doing a > >run in S (even if i bought them all!). > > > >Thanks for any help, > >kbt > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ONElist: the best source for group communications. > http://www.onelist.com > Join a new list today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3074	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: flyer gone, brass here

From the looks of this list recently, this is now a scale venue. Somebody clue me to the new list for hi-railers and I'll go there. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3075	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/17/1999
Subject: Re: flyer gone, brass here

Chris, Whoa!!! Wait a minute!! There's been transformer questions just today, AC ones! Also Alco motor problems too, and a Baldwin thrown in for good measure. We need to keep an open mind going here, S isn't so big we can go off in our own corner and ignore the rest. I love the divirsity here. Sometimes I even steal a neat idea that works for me too! Some days the posts will tend towards one area, the next day they may be at the other spectrum, maybe even narrow gauge! It seems to balance out over the long run, just have patience! At least it's all S--well unless we get into discussing Shwann's Ice Cream! (BTW, I'm not supposed to eat that stuff, if anyone does, I would sure love to have two proofs of purchase seals!!--oh, and enjoy some for me, 'specially if it's got chocolate in it!) Where was everyone Sunday night for S-trains? Or was my server off in LA-LA land again?? S'incererly, David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3076	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: AC/DC

So here I sit, armed with my charge card, on the verge of ordering my first hi-rail diesels (one from S-Helper, one from American Models, just to be fair about the whole thing) The thing is, I notice a significant price difference (almost $100) between AC "Flyer ready" units (such as AM's FA2s) and their DC counterparts. I've figured out that the scale stuff is DC. And I gather that DC runs better (well, smoother anyway, right?). So my question is: Can I buy NEW DC locomotives and still run older AF locomotives IF I convert the Flyer stuff to DC can motors (whew)? Or am I stepping into trouble I can't scrape off with a popsicle stick? Translation: Is it easier to simply shell out the extra bucks for the AC version so the AM and S-HS models can co-exist peacefully with the older Flyer locomotives? This whole AC/DC thing confuses me, at least as far as hi-railin' is concerned. It's a whole 'nuther matter when you live near downtown San Francicso and the Elvira lookalike on the corner of Geary and Hyde is sporting a five o'click shadow (I know, I know, more information that some of the folks on this list needed, sorry). If this is too basic a question to clog up the everyone's mailbox, please feel free to e-mail me off-list. Thanks! Paul Schneider, torn between a CB&Q, C&NW or CPR SW9. Ah, life's dilemmas should *always* be this fun! _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3077	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: MPSG FLASH!

Stop! Put this train into emergency! I received the following message from Paul York, our Chief S-trains list Administrator: <"Please don't send stuff to this address. I get three copies of everything because I subscribe to both lists. Please pass this along to the other members. I am using a palm top to monitor just my yorke@... mail. All the other stuff can wait. Thanks, no more model stuff till I come back from Alaska, Thanks."> Please abide by Paul's request. I'll only be posting important info shorts to the S / P64 lists when necessary. Please reply to me directly at: patndave@... Thank you Dave Bailey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3078	From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Southwind SD 45

I've been spot reading the list while catching up on a huge back log. I saw that Southwind announced it was planning a brass SD-45. Was any tentative price given for this future beauty? Ben Trousdale

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3079	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: AC/DC

No need to get hung up on AC vs. DC. You can run both. I have a rectifier installed so that I can switch from AC to DC output from the same transformer. If you install a DPDT (Double Pole Double Throw) switch on the transformer output so it goes either direct to the track or thru the rectifier you're in business. If this needs a diagram and no one else provides one I'll provide one. Remember that all AF runs on DC as well as AC. The sequence reverse may get a little stickier on DC but basically still works. "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > So here I sit, armed with my charge card, on the verge > of ordering my first hi-rail diesels (one from > S-Helper, one from American Models, just to be fair > about the whole thing) > > The thing is, I notice a significant price difference > (almost $100) between AC "Flyer ready" units (such as > AM's FA2s) and their DC counterparts. > > I've figured out that the scale stuff is DC. And I > gather that DC runs better (well, smoother anyway, > right?). So my question is: Can I buy NEW DC > locomotives and still run older AF locomotives IF I > convert the Flyer stuff to DC can motors (whew)? Or > am I stepping into trouble I can't scrape off with a > popsicle stick? > > Translation: Is it easier to simply shell out the > extra bucks for the AC version so the AM and S-HS > models can co-exist peacefully with the older Flyer > locomotives? > > This whole AC/DC thing confuses me, at least as far as > hi-railin' is concerned. It's a whole 'nuther matter > when you live near downtown San Francicso and the > Elvira lookalike on the corner of Geary and Hyde is > sporting a five o'click shadow (I know, I know, more > information that some of the folks on this list > needed, sorry). > > If this is too basic a question to clog up the > everyone's mailbox, please feel free to e-mail me > off-list. Thanks! > > Paul Schneider, torn between a CB&Q, C&NW or CPR SW9. > Ah, life's dilemmas should *always* be this fun! > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Give back to your community through "Grow to Give." > http://www.ONElist.com > See homepage for details. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3080	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: daunting diesel

I can relate. I'd love to get back those late nights (early mornings) and many hours I spent last year trying to unravel the mystery of why my 470 would run well, then run like h___. My recommendation is once you've tried and confirmed the usual (clean, lightly lubed, centered, good brushes, gears, wiring/contacts, pickup shoes, etc), don't rack your brain any further - - replace your chassis with latter production LTI's (come with axles, gears, and bushings), or have your old chassis rebushed. Then sit back and enjoy running your trains rather than them running you.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3081	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: dimensions

Thanks, Roger for the can stand and sawmill dimensionS.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3082	From: Bill Clark	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: AC/DC

At 02:42 AM 05/18/1999 -0700, you wrote: >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > >The thing is, I notice a significant price difference >(almost $100) between AC "Flyer ready" units (such as >AM's FA2s) and their DC counterparts. > The price difference in some cases includes a sound card. In others it is just the electronic E-unit. The SHS includes everything: AC/DC scale/Hi-rail, all for one price. With AM you order AF compatible, which is AC, DC Hi-rail which includes AF couplers and Hi-rail wheels but no electronic E-unit, or scale which has non-operating scale couplers and scale wheels, again with no E-unit. If you buy the AM hirail-DC version, you will need to convert your layout to DC using a bridge rectifier. As Chuck Smith said, all your AF will still work, except if you have any AC sound units. You can buy your SHS right away because it comes with both anyway. You might want to try converting to DC on your layout to try it before committing with the AM. A bridge rectifier only costs a couple of bucks at Radio Shack.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3083	From: Randy Reynolds	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Gabe restoration

I have recently acquired a Gabe The Lamplighter that needs work. The lights and tower are in good condition but the house and mechanism that activates Gabe is missing. I have the original controller and Gabe is still on his ladder. My question is what is the best way to go about restoring this rare accessory? I want it to operate on my layout, not sit on a shelf so functionality is my primary goal. I have a "house" that the shop I bought it from gave me but the tabs on the bottom of the houe do not line up with the ones on the base of the acessory. THanks, Randy Reynolds rreynol@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3084	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: October York Meet?

Hello, Does anyone know the dates of the October York Swap Meet? Thanks, Chuck ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3085	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: AF 336 Tender Steps

Ok, Now I am the proud owner of an AF 336 in "GOOD" condition with two missing rear tender steps! Does anyone know if or where repro tender steps for this pieces are available. Thansk, Chuck ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3086	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: AC/DC

Paul D. Schneider" wrote questions about differences between AM AC and DC locomotives. He also asked what he'd have to do to run his AC Flyer on DC. Answers: The price difference between AM AC and DC locomotives is in the electronics. The DC locomotives have neither sound nor an electronic reversing unit. The AM sound boards work only with AC propulsion. And with DC motors, reversing is automatic by reversing track polarity. No electronics needed. Regarding running Gilbert AF AC locomotives on DC, no conversion is necessary. Gilbert AF AC locomotives all have "universal" motors, which run fine on DC. They will continue to reverse via the built-in sequence reverse relay. If you want polarity reversing, a simple bridge rectifier can be installed in place of the sequence reverse relay. I have no experience with the Lionel AF locomotives. I hear that at least some of them have DC motors; that their electronic reversing units also convert the AC track current to DC for the motors. If this is so, removing the reversing electronics from the circuit is all that's necessary. I'm sure that others on S-List can help out here. Dick Karnes > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > So here I sit, armed with my charge card, on the verge > of ordering my first hi-rail diesels (one from > S-Helper, one from American Models, just to be fair > about the whole thing) > > The thing is, I notice a significant price difference > (almost $100) between AC "Flyer ready" units (such as > AM's FA2s) and their DC counterparts. > > I've figured out that the scale stuff is DC. And I > gather that DC runs better (well, smoother anyway, > right?). So my question is: Can I buy NEW DC > locomotives and still run older AF locomotives IF I > convert the Flyer stuff to DC can motors (whew)? Or > am I stepping into trouble I can't scrape off with a > popsicle stick? > > Translation: Is it easier to simply shell out the > extra bucks for the AC version so the AM and S-HS > models can co-exist peacefully with the older Flyer > locomotives? > > This whole AC/DC thing confuses me, at least as far as > hi-railin' is concerned. It's a whole 'nuther matter > when you live near downtown San Francicso and the > Elvira lookalike on the corner of Geary and Hyde is > sporting a five o'click shadow (I know, I know, more > information that some of the folks on this list > needed, sorry). > > If this is too basic a question to clog up the > everyone's mailbox, please feel free to e-mail me > off-list. Thanks! > > Paul Schneider, torn between a CB&Q, C&NW or CPR SW9. > Ah, life's dilemmas should *always* be this fun! > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Give back to your community through "Grow to Give." > http://www.ONElist.com > See homepage for details. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3087	From: Pete Ervin	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Rocket Launcher

I took the advice of someone on S-Trains about the rocket launcher being a kids favorite and purchased one over the weekend for $65, button included. But I'm wondering if something is missing. There is a little metal tab that sticks out from one of the trucks. Does it brush against something that the button controls? Also, is there a way to make this work on track that has DC power? Anymore ideas on what kids like? Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3088	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: chrome

In a message dated 5/18/99 4:29:15 AM, you wrote: <<Doug, Can you plate metal as well as plastic AF shells? If so, what's the price per piece? Thanks. >> Plastic or metal....makes no difference. $35 per item.......$40 if we do the stripping and prep, which the replater actually prefers. BUT....no sanding or other prep is included; just stripping. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3089	From: John Foley	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Message: 11 Date: Mon, 17 May 1999 19:29:04 -0700 From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> Subject: Re: GE44T/25T Anyone have either a 44T or 25T endcab up for grabs? Or where to find these locos. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy Canada Andrew Steam Depot was selling 44T locos There at 1838 Walnut St. Ashland Pa. 17921 Phone 570 875-4205 or 644 1758 They are plastic bodies. They also have powered kits. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3090	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/18/1999
Subject: Re: chrome

Hi All, Remember, plating is only as good as the surface underneath it! If you have pits or scratches in the surface, the chrome will too. The early PA molds and car molds were highly polished to provide that smoooooth surface plating requires. Later on the molds started wearing and showing some small flaws. I suspect, looking at the rough surfaced paint jobs L puts on their production of Passenger cars, that the molds have been rusty in the past, and are no longer smooooth. Metal has to be smoooth too, and shiney, almost as if it were already plated, to get a superior plating job. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3091	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: river raisin models

anyone have a phone number handy for river raisin models. thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3092	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: river raisin models

248-366-9621 Alex Binkley wrote: > From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> > > anyone have a phone number handy for river raisin models. > thanks > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend? > http://www.onelist.com > Come join one of the nearly 150,000 e-mail communities at ONElist! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3093	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Hotel Room Reservations for the NASG National Convention

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3094	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Hotel Room Reservations for the NASG National Convention

Sorry for the previous post with no information. This post is for all of you S folks out there who have been told that there are no rooms left for the Lake Special '99 NASG National Convention in St. Paul. As of this post, there are around 60 rooms still available. The problem is that Hotel room space at Convention Time in St. Paul is pretty much booked solid because of the NMRA and some other events. So the Kelly Inn reservation operators have been told that they need to be asked the "right" question to make sure that the NASG convention rooms do not get used by these other groups. You MUST call the Kelly Inn DIRECT (651-227-8711). The 1-800 number will NOT work at all for this block of rooms. When you get the Hotel reservation operator, you need to state specifically that you want to reserve a room for "THE NASG MODEL RAILROAD EVENT". You should be quoted a price of $91.00 per night. If you try this and you still are not able to reserve a room, please contact me (sgaugemn@... or jopke@...) with your information and I will straighten it out for you. The Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop profusely apologizes for any consternation and difficulty anyone has had trying to make Kelly Inn reservations. Walt Jopke

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3095	From: L Montgomery	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Resin Street Lights

These are probably close to S Scale but the price is unbelievable: http://www.mayberrygifts.com/mayberry/91360.html Monty -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3096	From: Richard.Spritz@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 240

Pete, You are missing the track pick-up. There are several versions, but basically they all have an L-shaped bar about 3 �" long that runs parallel to the track. The common side of your track goes to the powered wheels on the rocket launcher, and the other side goes to the button, then the wire out from the button goes to the pick-up. The metal tab protruding from the truck rides up on the L-bar of the pick-up (the tab should have a little spring). When you push the button you thus power the solenoid with ~15 V via the transformer-wheel-solenoid-tab-bar-button-transformer circuit and blast-off! I've never tried it with DC, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work. Your negative side of the track would go through the wheels and a positive side through the power pick-up (but not the same positive as track positive). By the way, you want to set all of this up on a straight section of track. Kids also love the operating milk car, the cow-on-track, and talking station. But the rocket launcher is the most popular, in my experience. From: Pete Ervin <pjervin@...> Subject: Rocket Launcher I took the advice of someone on S-Trains about the rocket launcher being a kids favorite and purchased one over the weekend for $65, button included. But I'm wondering if something is missing. There is a little metal tab that sticks out from one of the trucks. Does it brush against something that the button controls? Also, is there a way to make this work on track that has DC power? Anymore ideas on what kids like? Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3097	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: York

I don't have it marked in my calendar yet, horrors! But I think its Oct 22/23 (at least the show on the Fairgrounds, of course all the pre-show shows commence on Tuesday, maybe some year I'll get to participate in the whole week, WOW!, wonder if it's possible to OD on toy trains, don't know but would love try'n).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3098	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: AC/DC

While I'm intrigued with the DPDT switch and Bridge Rectifier dual-mode idea, and appreciate the great explanation for the price difference between DC and AC models, personally I'd just go AC. If you're interested in scale slow-speeds (crawling) and sort of thing on a regular basis, then DC, or having the DC option, might be the way to go, but otherwise straight 'ol AC works for me. Now if you throw Digital Command Control (DCC) the advantages of one over the other still aren't clear to me, but that's a whole nuth'r can of worms. Smoke'm if you got 'em, ACG steamers that is.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3099	From: John Foley	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: York meet

Message: 9 Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 11:18:21 -0400 From: Chuck Harrington <paketpet@...> Subject: October York Meet? Hello, Does anyone know the dates of the October York Swap Meet? Thanks, Chuck Hi Chuck In the May issue of the TCA'S newsletter they have the date of Oct 15-16 listed. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3100	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: rocket launcher

You need a 712 special rail section that clips/clamps onto your track. The tab or "foot" sticking out from one of the trucks rubs along the top edge of this section. When you insert the rocket into its launcher, stop the car at the 712 so the foot makes contact with it, and press the accessory button (assuming you've known to wire it such that your car's metal wheels are picking up the opposite <base vs hot> than is wired to the 712), boing! Off goes the rocket! Same for other action cars such as 974, 973, etc. As far as what kids like, don't drive yourself nuts. I did for awhile and have come to realize - - enjoy your trains for what they mean to you, and appreciate whatever part of that you get to share with your kids as gravy. My kids come and go with the trains. The thing they like most now is their own small N-scale layout for grins. The other night I removed all buildings, accessories, vehicles, sidings, etc, from my layout to prepare for "remodeling". The next day, one of their friends stopped dead in her tracks and said to my kids "what's your Dad doing to his layout!". My two apparently just kept going on toward their play room with "oh, yeah that's Dad's, he's always doing something".

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3101	From: Richard Snook	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Streetlights

What!! "A Streetlight named bizarre" (sic) they're kidding !!! Right??....the decimal point is in the wrong place?? People buy this stuff.........Think I'll make streetlights instead (only joking!! and surely so are they!!) :~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3102	From: Joe Visintine	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Whistel Controller

Can someone tell me which controller I need to operate my 334DC Thanks. Joe Visintine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3103	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: AC vs. DC

I just wanted to add my "two cents" worth to the AC vs. DC question. Most of the old Flyer trains have "universal" motors, meaning they run on AC or DC. Some people claim they run smoother on DC, but others dispute this. If you are an electronic head and know how to wire up a bridge rectifier to your old Flyer transformer, then try both AC and DC, and form your own opinion. ALL of the old Flyer transformers (except a few labeled "rectiformer") produce AC only. The reason is, back in the days of vacuum tubes, it was nearly impossible to build a cheap reliable rectifier to convert AC house current to DC. So Gilbert built the trains to run on AC or DC, even though the "universal" system was more complicated and more expensive to build; they just had to because they didn't have rectifiers. Cut to the present. Most "modern" trains (HO, N, etc.) are DC, because rectifiers are cheap now (the same reason your computer is cheaper than it was in 1960) and the motors are simple DC can motors. But here's the problem. If you try to run a DC motor on an old Flyer AC transformer, you will probably destroy the motor. In any case, it won't go. (Actually, it will switch between forward and backward 60 times a second as the alternating current hits it!) I don't think it will hurt the transformer, however. So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a rectifier between your transformer and your track, OR buy a new DC powerpack. If you decide to buy a DC powerpack, make sure it has enough power to run your S loco, not just a dinky little N loco. Of course, the rectified current (or powerpack current) will run your old trains perfectly well, because they have universal motors. What to do? Depends on what you want. If you like your old Flyer trains and transformers, stick with AC in your new purchases and keep your life simple. On the other hand, if you believe the "DC is smoother" club, or if you want to run HO or N trains too (horrors!), you could try DC. But anything you save by buying DC engines could be eaten up in purchases of powerpacks, rectifiers, and switchgear. One thing I would definitely NOT do is stick DC can motors in my old Flyer trains. They run fine on DC, and by changing them you would wreck whatever value they have to a collector.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3104	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs. DC

Dan Brindell wrote: > So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a rectifier > between your transformer and your track, Methinks there is another alternative worth considering. Why not install the bridge rectifier inside the DC locomotive? That way, the transformer could continue to put AC on the track. Those locos that run on AC need no modifications at all. Those locos that you desire to run on DC can do so if they have the rectifier installed in them. Just be careful of the heat. Mount the rectifier on a metal plate and keep it away from plastic. Best to do some careful testing first. Anyone actually try this? I haven't, but in theory at least, it otter work. "S"incerely, Ed Loizeaux

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3105	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs. DC

Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote: > Why not > install the bridge rectifier inside the DC locomotive? Anyone > actually try this? I haven't, but in theory at least, it otter work. I guess one reason why this idea isn't so hot (pardon the pun) is that it would be hard to reverse the locomotive from the transformer. But, it would run just fine in one direction at least. Heck, you can't have everything. Cheers...Ed L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3106	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: AC/DC

Paul D. Schneider wrote: >This whole AC/DC thing confuses me, at least as far as hi-railin' is concerned. >I've figured out that the scale stuff is DC. And I gather that DC runs better (well, smoother >anyway, right?). So my question is: Can I buy NEW DC locomotives and still run older AF >locomotives IF I convert the Flyer stuff to DC can motors (whew)? Dear Paul: My little niece asked me how come butterflies weren't born pretty and graceful fliers, but were creepy crawling things first. I proceeded to explain all I knew about the process and philosophy of metamorphosis, including technical data on the formation of the cocoon, actual time spent in the chrysalis state and the process of rebirth. I examined the religious overtones of the phenomenon and drew parallels to human life and the act of being reborn at many levels. I was brilliant. To which my niece, who listened intently through all my gesticulations and flow charts, replied, "That's more than I wanted to know about butterflies." If you are confused about AC and DC, this would be a poor time to first undertake the process of learning a new technical language. Your problem, thankfully, can be solved by throwing money at it. Pay the premium and buy the AC versions of the diesels. You keep your system intact, everything is compatible, the sound systems all work, you don't need a crash course in electronics, and you are only out 200 bucks. The advice the other guys gave is technically correct (with a minor exception), but it may turn out to be more than you wanted to know about butterflies. I am somewhat of an expert on electricity. I work in a field of electrical and electronic technology. I am a hi-railer and I have considered converting to DC. I have not yet done so and continue, instead, to buy AC compatible engines. Part of the reason is that going DC is a major shift toward scale. Another part is that even though Flyer does run on DC, I would not be happy with a fleet divided between engines with mechanical e-units and others depending on polarity shifts to reverse. This would entail some rewiring to bring 42 Flyer locomotives into line with 8 non-Flyer units. Disassemby, re-wiring, inshopping, outshopping. It will get me into maintenance and service areas I'd rather not deal with until I have to. Besides, I've got all my reverse units tuned up nicely. Running reverse unit solenoids on DC is nice and quiet, but I have managed to burn one up by leaving it standing powered in neutral. My final reason would then have to be committment. I am already well entrenched in a system, and unless I induce a sea change, like a big investment in DCC, I see insufficient reason to embrace a new, but very similar, system. Fact is, the one Flyer pure DC engine I have (a 332), I converted to AC operation with a mechanical reverse unit, a full-wave bridge rectifier and a large capacitor. So, its not like I'm confused, it's more a matter of keeping Flyer Flyer. Enjoy, and keep it simple. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3107	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/19/1999
Subject: Re: Rocket Launcher

Most action cars require a "special rail section" such as the #712. This in conjunction with a push button, activates the car. It should be easy to find and quite inexpensive. If you can't find one, let me know, as I've got a rusty but useable one you can have free if you pay the postage. This will work perfectly on DC, as long as the track polarity is correct. If the pickup wheels are on the + track, the rail section must be - , or vice versa. Probably best to set it up so that it works in the direction that is normally forward. Kids like coal loaders, (who doesn't!) Bill Frazier, with more junk than I know what to do with. In a message dated 99-05-19 17:15:46 EDT, you write: << Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 20:04:37 -0400 From: Pete Ervin <pjervin@...> Subject: Rocket Launcher I took the advice of someone on S-Trains about the rocket launcher being a kids favorite and purchased one over the weekend for $65, button included. But I'm wondering if something is missing. There is a little metal tab that sticks out from one of the trucks. Does it brush against something that the button controls? Also, is there a way to make this work on track that has DC power? Anymore ideas on what kids like? Peter Ervin >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3108	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: hi-rail vs scale

Referring to AC vs DC Flyer operation, Chris Zizzo wrote: I am a hi-railer and I have considered converting to DC. I have not yet done so and continue, instead, to buy AC compatible engines. Part of the reason is that going DC is a major shift toward scale. To which Paul Schneider replies: Chris, you're comment about "drifting toward scale" touches on something Ed Loizeaux and I have discussed off-list: The pros and cons of hi-rail vs scale. I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but I wonder: What do others on this list have to say about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with each system? _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3109	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale

I am delighted to mix hirail and flyer. I'm thinking about converting some of my hirail stuff to Kadee couplers. The hirail stuff runs infinitely superior to Flyer and you realize they are really different. Run Flyer to appreciate a collectible toy that runs well at high throttle, run hirail for more realistic models and silky smooth slow speed. Also, the sound systems in hirail are really superior. "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Referring to AC vs DC Flyer operation, Chris Zizzo > wrote: > > I am a hi-railer and I > have > considered converting to DC. I have not yet done so > and continue, instead, to buy AC compatible engines. > Part of the reason is that going DC is a > major shift toward scale. > > To which Paul Schneider replies: > > Chris, you're comment about "drifting toward scale" > touches on something Ed Loizeaux and I have discussed > off-list: The pros and cons of hi-rail vs scale. > > I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but > I wonder: What do others on this list have to say > about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? > In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with > each system? > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > It's finally here! What's your opinion? > http://www.onelist.com > Create a Star Wars discussion group at ONElist. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3110	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Third Rail

The #712 Special Track Section (and its ilk) function like an outside third rail pickup, much like is seen on many present day urban commuter rail lines and people movers. For example, the third rail at the Dallas Airport shorted out a few years ago when it snowed there in enough depth to "ground" the third rail and short out the entire sytem between terminals. BTW, on the RecMR newsgroup recently someone had a very good line: What do you call the third rail (e.g., in 3-rail track)? ANSWER: A training rail!! :<) Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3111	From: Bill Clark	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs. DC

The rectifier in the loco will indeed work. The problem will is reversing. You would need a switch on the loco like the cheap AF locos near the end. If you want new locos with DC cans to work on AC the best solution is the electronic E-unit, as comes with all SHS SW9s, and all AC AM locos. They are also available from Dallee. Again, note that the AF locos do not need modification to run on DC. The reason some people put Bridge Rect on them is to allow them to reverse with poarity, eliminating the mechanical E unit. At 07:46 PM 05/19/1999 -0700, you wrote: >From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> > >Dan Brindell wrote: > >> So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a rectifier >> between your transformer and your track, > >Methinks there is another alternative worth considering. Why not >install the bridge rectifier inside the DC locomotive? That way, the >transformer could continue to put AC on the track. Those locos that run >on AC need no modifications at all. Those locos that you desire to run >on DC can do so if they have the rectifier installed in them. Just be >careful of the heat. Mount the rectifier on a metal plate and keep it >away from plastic. Best to do some careful testing first. Anyone >actually try this? I haven't, but in theory at least, it otter work. > >"S"incerely, > > Ed Loizeaux > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >ONElist: the best source for group communications. >http://www.onelist.com >Join a new list today! >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3112	From: Bill Clark	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale

At 03:03 AM 05/20/1999 -0700, you wrote: >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > >I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but >I wonder: What do others on this list have to say >about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? >In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with >each system? > I run a combination of American Flyer and new stuff. I guess I am moving more towards a realistic operation, and away from tinplate. I still love the operating accessories (saw mill, Barrel loader!) but mostly now to show to others. For my own operation I'm moving toward having everything as close to the same scale as possible, slow realistic switching operations, and the like. My favorite locos are my AF Northern, AF Hudson, and the AF Atlantic my brother gave me for Christmas in 1951. All have been converted to DC can motors, Digital Command Control, and full sound. They are absolutely wonderful, and smoke like mad. I also love my SHS SW-9s, which have such beautiful detail and run superbly. I have 3 AM GP9s which I have custom painted and custom decaled for the Bangor and Aroostook, that has also been fun. My current layout is very much like my original one in 1951: Two loops connected with 4 AF switches ion the ping pong table my father built in 1937. All my old plasticville is there, along with all the operating accessories. It is all DCC now, and the AF track has been replaced with SHS, but the whole thing is very tinplate and I love it. As does my granddaughter. Off to one side I have built a switching yard with AM 148 track, and this is where the SW9s spend most of there time building trains for the mainline. To make this better and more realistic most locos and cars (except passenger) have been converted to Kadees. This allows realistic coupling and uncoupling and also looks much better. I'm currently working with some friends to build a large 20x24' layout with 240' of mainline all AM 148 track and 40 some-odd handlayed closed frog switches (so that we can run both Flyer and "scale" wheelsets). This layout will be as realistic as we can make it, but will be designed to allow prototypical operation with dispatcher, switch lists, schedules etc as well as round and around operation while we talk about the old days. All of this has been extreme fun. I'd never want to give up my AF, but the addition of prototype operation, DCC, handlaying track, and all the rest has turned this into a real passion.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3113	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs. DC

One point that hasn't been made in the ac versus dc debate is that dc is quieter. There's virtually no 60-cycle (60 Hz) hum from accessories or transformers, etc. Just a small observation. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Brindell [mailto:dbrindell@...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 10:16 PM > To: fasttrack2000@...; s-trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] AC vs. DC > > > From: Dan Brindell <dbrindell@...> > > I just wanted to add my "two cents" worth to the AC vs. DC question. > > Most of the old Flyer trains have "universal" motors, meaning they run on > AC or DC. Some people claim they run smoother on DC, but others dispute > this. If you are an electronic head and know how to wire up a bridge > rectifier to your old Flyer transformer, then try both AC and DC, and form > your own opinion. > > ALL of the old Flyer transformers (except a few labeled "rectiformer") > produce AC only. The reason is, back in the days of vacuum tubes, it was > nearly impossible to build a cheap reliable rectifier to convert AC house > current to DC. So Gilbert built the trains to run on AC or DC, > even though > the "universal" system was more complicated and more expensive to build; > they just had to because they didn't have rectifiers. > > Cut to the present. Most "modern" trains (HO, N, etc.) are DC, because > rectifiers are cheap now (the same reason your computer is cheaper than it > was in 1960) and the motors are simple DC can motors. But here's the > problem. If you try to run a DC motor on an old Flyer AC transformer, you > will probably destroy the motor. In any case, it won't go. (Actually, it > will switch between forward and backward 60 times a second as the > alternating current hits it!) I don't think it will hurt the > transformer, > however. > > So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a rectifier > between your transformer and your track, OR buy a new DC powerpack. If > you decide to buy a DC powerpack, make sure it has enough power > to run your > S loco, not just a dinky little N loco. Of course, the rectified current > (or powerpack current) will run your old trains perfectly well, because > they have universal motors. > > What to do? Depends on what you want. If you like your old Flyer trains > and transformers, stick with AC in your new purchases and keep your life > simple. On the other hand, if you believe the "DC is smoother" club, or > if you want to run HO or N trains too (horrors!), you could try DC. But > anything you save by buying DC engines could be eaten up in purchases of > powerpacks, rectifiers, and switchgear. > > One thing I would definitely NOT do is stick DC can motors in my old Flyer > trains. They run fine on DC, and by changing them you would > wreck whatever > value they have to a collector. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Where do some of the Internet's largest email lists reside? > http://www.onelist.com > At ONElist - the most scalable and reliable service on the Internet. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3114	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: AC vs. DC

That's exactly what Putt Trains does in its trolleys for AC. The little bridge rectifier is mounted near the can motor, along with a 3-terminal regulator for constant lighting voltage. However, they run in one direction only. I modified mine by removing the bridge and running the can motor from dc, and reversing the polarity at the cab (my control console). Now I can run 'em forward and reverse. Lotsa fun! -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > -----Original Message----- > From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux [mailto:loizeaux@...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 10:47 PM > To: Dan Brindell > Cc: fasttrack2000@...; s-trains@onelist.com > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] AC vs. DC > > > From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> > > Dan Brindell wrote: > > > So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a rectifier > > between your transformer and your track, > > Methinks there is another alternative worth considering. Why not > install the bridge rectifier inside the DC locomotive? That way, the > transformer could continue to put AC on the track. Those locos that run > on AC need no modifications at all. Those locos that you desire to run > on DC can do so if they have the rectifier installed in them. Just be > careful of the heat. Mount the rectifier on a metal plate and keep it > away from plastic. Best to do some careful testing first. Anyone > actually try this? I haven't, but in theory at least, it otter work. > > "S"incerely, > > Ed Loizeaux > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ONElist: the best source for group communications. > http://www.onelist.com > Join a new list today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3115	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale

It's interesting to read about your work Bill. Just how does one go about converting an AF motor to a can motor? Has anything been written about this I can refer to? Where would a novice start? -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Clark [mailto:clark@...] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 9:11 AM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Cc: a1dude@...; Tom.Robichaud@...; Helen.Lenart@...; > helen@...; Mike > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] hi-rail vs scale > > > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > > At 03:03 AM 05/20/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > > >I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but > >I wonder: What do others on this list have to say > >about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? > >In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with > >each system? > > > > I run a combination of American Flyer and new stuff. I guess I am moving > more towards a realistic operation, and away from tinplate. I > still love the > operating accessories (saw mill, Barrel loader!) but mostly now to show to > others. For my own operation I'm moving toward having everything > as close to > the same scale as possible, slow realistic switching operations, > and the like. > > My favorite locos are my AF Northern, AF Hudson, and the AF Atlantic my > brother gave me for Christmas in 1951. All have been converted to DC can > motors, Digital Command Control, and full sound. They are absolutely > wonderful, and smoke like mad. I also love my SHS SW-9s, which have such > beautiful detail and run superbly. I have 3 AM GP9s which I have custom > painted and custom decaled for the Bangor and Aroostook, that has > also been fun. > > My current layout is very much like my original one in 1951: Two loops > connected with 4 AF switches ion the ping pong table my father built in > 1937. All my old plasticville is there, along with all the operating > accessories. It is all DCC now, and the AF track has been > replaced with SHS, > but the whole thing is very tinplate and I love it. As does my > granddaughter. > > Off to one side I have built a switching yard with AM 148 track, > and this is > where the SW9s spend most of there time building trains for the > mainline. To > make this better and more realistic most locos and cars (except passenger) > have been converted to Kadees. This allows realistic coupling and > uncoupling > and also looks much better. > > I'm currently working with some friends to build a large 20x24' > layout with > 240' of mainline all AM 148 track and 40 some-odd handlayed closed frog > switches (so that we can run both Flyer and "scale" wheelsets). > This layout > will be as realistic as we can make it, but will be designed to allow > prototypical operation with dispatcher, switch lists, schedules > etc as well > as round and around operation while we talk about the old days. > > All of this has been extreme fun. I'd never want to give up my AF, but the > addition of prototype operation, DCC, handlaying track, and all > the rest has > turned this into a real passion. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? > http://www.onelist.com > More than 1,000! Create yours now! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3116	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: Whistel Controller

A Model Rectifier Corp. model #2400 or 2500 will work great! Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3117	From: Richard L. Kroll	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Large Scale Train Show

Friends: The June issue of Garden Railways has an ad for the 2nd East Coast Large Scale Train Show - limited to G, O and S - on Aug.28-29, at the Garden State Exhibit Center, Somerset N.J. (which exit?) - the new exit 10 on I287. It's right off the exit. Get a new map - the exit was renumbered about two years ago, was 5 or 6. Double Tree in rate is $69. For info. 718-788-0516. I have no personal involvement in this, just thought some folks might like to know. I didn't know about last year's first show, have no idea how much S there might be. Did anyone go? Dick K.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3118	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: scale vs. hi-rail

This debate of AC/DC, scale/hi-rail is starting to sound like a "keeping up with the Jones' " or (HORRORS!!!) a " PC " issue. We are talking about 40 and 50 year old , collectable toy trains and their relative merits/drawbacks to current production, scale (or near-scale: flying modelers have a category called stand-off scale) equipment. Did anybody say "apples and oranges?" As to putting a can motor in a Gilbert prime mov- er to "improve" it, what do you think of putting a Chevy small block into a Duesenberg SJ ? If it aint broke, don't fix it!! My tinplate has it's place, my scale stuff has it's place. Running a 20's Flyer 3100 on the same layout as a Gilbert Flyer 326 gives one some perspective on how things changed in the timeline of the 1st 1/2 of the century vis-a-vis toy trains. In reality land, the P5 outlived the Hudson on the rails! The pleasure of owning and operating toy trains-of any gauge, era, or manufacturer is not diminished nor enhanced by adhering to anyone's set of rules. I know people whose layouts run on schedules, have destinations and purposes for train A to go tto point Z whilst train B awaits the load of barrels at factory L to be invoiced.And that's ok with me. My layout, with it's people interspersed with rabbits , farms that breed dinosaurs, and a Guilford station that has cows leave the platform while, across town, men in gray flannel pace the stockyard waiting for the MOPAC to Darien, does raise some eyebrows. and that's ok, too. Keeping the equipment original, maintained, and "doing it's thing" (providing FUN!) is my priority.I'm comitted to electric trains, the fun and Peter Pan principle thereof, and what current production items I have, are all AC compatible.Modern stuff should be adapted to run in the classic arena, not the other way around.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3119	From: Bill Clark	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: scale vs. hi-rail

At 10:22 AM 05/20/1999 EDT, you wrote: >From: Toyguy5344@... > >This debate of AC/DC, scale/hi-rail is starting to sound like a "keeping up >with the Jones' " or (HORRORS!!!) a " PC " issue. We are talking about 40 and No debate here! Someone asked about comparisons of AC and DC, which to me is a very reasonable question. Then a question was asked about scale vs hirail, pros and cons, mixing etc. Again to me a very valid question, with an infinite number of valid answers. Since I love to read and write about S gauge trains, I decided to enter my feelings, and am looking forward to as many as possible other views. To me, all this is positive and fun, with no question of a debate or right or wrong. Thanks! Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3120	From: jdoran	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: third rail, 785 footprint, York dates and success

In order, there was an article in S-gaugian (don't have date yet) about howw to build these, I'll see if I can dig out the issue date tonight. The 785 footprint is 5"x5" but don't forget the boom for the bucket is another 4" on that side. York is October 15-16 (Fri-Sat). The non-afilliated meets run all week. The auto switch circuit works! Connect both base posts on the switches to the transformer base post. THe power side of the transformer goes thru trip (697) to either the appropriate post ofnthe switches anf you need a jumper to the straight section between the switches. OK that's not clear. I'll figure out what I'm trying to say and repost tonight with a diagram. End of lunch hour, back to work. Doc

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3121	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: scale vs. hi-rail

Toyguy5344@... wrote: > and what current production items I have, are all AC compatible.Modern stuff > should be adapted to run in the classic arena, not the other way around.-john > marganski -- I was with you right up to the above "rule"! Whatever anyone does is OK with me as long as it doesn't force me to go along, and I can enjoy my trains my way. Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3122	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Doin' S YOUR way! WAS: scale vs. hi-rail

I like Bill Clark's idea, so I'm proposing a change for the subject heading that avoids an "Us vs them" possible connotation. I know how I prefer my S, but I enjoy hearing all the other ways that people enjoy it. I once read a Model Railroad Introductory guide that stated the modelers advance from toy trains to scale models. Hurmph! They may change from one to another, but I wouldn't say it's an advancement, either is a legitimate variation of the train hobby! So, how do I like my S?? Well, so far I only have temporary layouts, but I run for fun, sometimes my AF is modified, so it looks different (Usually done to basket cases, or wrecks!), and I enjoy the challenge of a properly sequencing reverse unit! I'm also annoyed at switches that seem to cause random halts of train movements, but that's just part of what you get with old AC trains. I would like to someday build a permanent layout, with scenery and a level of realism that matches the trains. Some claim that they were built to run on the floor--well, yes, the engineering did allow that, but all the AF books show layouts, wonderful worlds you built with your parents or grandparents and siblings! So I believe both types of operation are valid for Flyer! I have also built an S sized trolley that runs on HO track (3-1/2' or close in S), haven't run it for years, but it did grace the center of a display layout on year, so I'm "guilty" of scratchbuilding too! yes, DC does seem to run smoother (I bought some engines recently that had been converted w/ rectifiers) but I have far too much equipment on hand to make the conversion--at least that's my story for now! I do sneak in rectifiers on my action cabooses and such to keep the humming down! That being said, I will also admit that I am impressed by various scale members' work, and am always interested in what others do in S and promoting S as I think it's the best scale overall. So, how do YOU do S?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3123	From: L Montgomery	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Streetlights

See http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?59960 (a larger photo is at http://holidaytree.com/59960.html) and http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?52627 These lights look nice and they actually light. Amazingly the resin unlighted ones (the "streetlights named bizzare") cost over twice as much. Go figure. Also check out the vehicles at http://www.christmasmouse.com/56svacat.htm (especially the 1955 Fords). If they're the right size for snow villages, they're probably close to S Scale. P.S. I want to thank those of you who emailed me the info re the Schwans offer. Monty -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3124	From: Tomlinson, John D	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: Streetlights

I though everyone knew why the resin unlighted ones were twice as costly -- ITS BECAUSE THEY RESINATE (sic)....;) ....... sorry, it's been a long morning --- too long I did appreciate the URL about the Dept56 lights. I have often looked at them and wondered how they would work on the layout. John D. Tomlinson > Configuration Mgmt Deployment - CA-Endevor Support > 6-6M67 M/S: 6F-62 Bldg: 7-311.3 > Ph: (425) 477-4589 Pgr: (206) 986-5329 Hotline: (206) 655-HELP > Boeing Web page: http://www-ads.ca.boeing.com/cmd > > > ---------- > From: L Montgomery[SMTP:lmontgo@...] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 1:01 PM > To: S-Trains > Subject: [S-Trains] Streetlights > > From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...> > > See http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?59960 > (a larger photo is at http://holidaytree.com/59960.html) > > and http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?52627 > > These lights look nice and they actually light. Amazingly the resin unlighted ones (the "streetlights named bizzare") cost over twice as much. > > Go figure. > > Also check out the vehicles at http://www.christmasmouse.com/56svacat.htm (especially the 1955 Fords). If they're the right size for snow villages, they're probably close to S Scale. > > P.S. I want to thank those of you who emailed me the info re the Schwans offer. > > Monty > > > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? > http://www.onelist.com > More than 1,000! Create yours now! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3125	From: Bill Porter	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Scale and Tin Plate

Hi Ya'll, Here is 2 more cents. My interest is scale. That means my layout (under construction) will feature things that look a lot like real things that are just small. But, I live near some Flyer collectors and I enjoy that old stuff too. So, I'm considering making my mainline loop out of American Models code 148 flex track. It means I'll have to hand lay three turnouts and add a few electrical switches and then I'll be able to send some vintage Flyer things on a tour of the scale layout scenery. I even bought a 30B to power them when it is their turn to run. Great ZOT itS, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3126	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/20/1999
Subject: Re: Large Scale Train Show

Dear Richard, S Helper Service will have a booth at the East Coast Large Scale Train Show. We only live a few miles from the show hall and the people putting the show on are dear friends (S owes them a lot, as they introduced us to our builers who now makes some of the models for American Models, S Scale American (DesPlaines), PBL. American Flyer (yes, the hated "L" company), etc.). If anyone is in the area, please drop by. When we find out our booth number, I will let everyone know. They are now looking for an S layout (either portable or module) to display at this show, if you know someone who is interested, please let us know and we will pass this information on. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3127	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Closed frog swtich source

Someone mentioned hand laying closed frog switches so that scale and Hi rail can both be run through. Does anyone manufacture closed frog switches? I know that Terry in Florida did, but last I heard, he had stopped doing it. Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3128	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Closed frog switch source

Someone mentioned hand laying closed frog switches so that scale and Hi rail can both be run through. Does anyone manufacture closed frog switches? I know that Terry in Florida did, but last I heard, he had stopped doing it. Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3129	From: Bill Clark	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Closed frog switch source

I'm pretty sure the new SHS switches will be closed frog. Of course the old American Flyer were as well! Gargraves are also closed frog. BK enterprises makes a kit for closed frog switches as well. At 11:12 AM 05/21/1999 -0400, Peter Ervin wrote: >From: Peter Ervin <pjervin@...> > >Someone mentioned hand laying closed frog switches so that scale and Hi >rail can both be run through. Does anyone manufacture closed frog >switches? I know that Terry in Florida did, but last I heard, he had >stopped doing it. > >Peter Ervin > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >What do lizards and rock music have in common? >http://www.onelist.com >They both have communities at ONElist. Find yours today! >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3130	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Closed frog switch

Dear Bill & Peter, Funny you should mention the SHS #3 switches, we just received the price quote yesterday and we will be starting the R & L hand switch as well as the control box tooling in June. I am told to expect test shots in September. We had delays in design as we wanted a model of a built up frog (instead of a cast frog) made in metal (so it can be powered) with the bolt detail on the side. Then we realized that the light bulb in the switch stand lantern was soldered to the circuitry. This was unacceptable, so we went with a screw in light bulb and a light pipe. But, this will be an open frog turnout that is intended to be used with American Flyer� compatible wheels. I felt that there was not much of a market for a #3 turnout for use with code 110 wheels. We are planning larger frog turnouts in the future that will either have a closed from or a drop in frog for code 110 wheels. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3131	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Closed frog switch source

Try BK Enterprises 12874 Country Road 314B Buena Vista, CO 81211-9708. Phone: (719) 395-8076 email: Bktruscale@... We use BK switches on our code 148 modules for scale and Flyer. Peter Ervin wrote: > > From: Peter Ervin <pjervin@...> > > Someone mentioned hand laying closed frog switches so that scale and Hi > rail can both be run through. Does anyone manufacture closed frog > switches? I know that Terry in Florida did, but last I heard, he had > stopped doing it. > > Peter Ervin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > What do lizards and rock music have in common? > http://www.onelist.com > They both have communities at ONElist. Find yours today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3132	From: Dalessandro, David L TL13C	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Hi-Rail vs Scale not a problem having both!!

As a 35 year old that has been collecting AC Gilbert Flyer for 10 years now that there is a need to add new exciting pieces to your layout. I have no problem running my AF 494-495 New Havens next to a Brass {painted of course} N+W 4-6-6-4 Articulated Steamer. I am careful in laying out my American Models track for a 72" curve and insure that the engine with the scale wheels will have no reason to derail at a respectable speed. It also ensures the other hi Rail engines have a smooth ride. Its not that IM tired of the Old Flyer, I just like to enhance my Fleet with cool interesting items. I was too young to grow up with Flyer, I had HO, sorry. I was impressed so much by the perfect scale of flyer as well as repulsed by how silly Lionel engines looked with that 3rd rail thing and smooched looking cars. I decided to hunt down this odd scale train I had not seen advertised in my childhood. I learned more about S and Flyer, it was all over, I love it however there always needs to be a fresh supply of new items to keep me happy!! I would prefer not to spend $1000-2500 for the articulated steamers and duplex engines however I need these to keep me in this scale. Do whatever you have to do electrically to run both AC or DC-DCC whenever you want, we are no longer limited to needing to run only AC or DC. I am still learning however It really is not that hard once you find a good resource to learn from. Thanks Dave Dalessandro -----Original Message----- From: S-Trains@onelist.com [SMTP:S-Trains@onelist.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 4:50 AM To: S-Trains@onelist.com Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 242 What was YOUR favorite part?! http://www.onelist.com Tell other Star Wars fans at ONElist! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm There are 19 messages in this issue. Topics in today's digest: 1. hi-rail vs scale From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> 2. Re: hi-rail vs scale From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> 3. Third Rail From: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> 4. Re: AC vs. DC From: Bill Clark <clark@...> 5. Re: hi-rail vs scale From: Bill Clark <clark@...> 6. Re: AC vs. DC From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> 7. Re: AC vs. DC From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> 8. Re: hi-rail vs scale From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> 9. Re: Whistel Controller From: TPDavis7@... 10. Large Scale Train Show From: "Richard L. Kroll" <rkroll@...> 11. scale vs. hi-rail From: Toyguy5344@... 12. Re: scale vs. hi-rail From: Bill Clark <clark@...> 13. third rail, 785 footprint, York dates and success From: "jdoran" <jdoran@...> 14. Re: scale vs. hi-rail From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> 15. Doin' S YOUR way! WAS: scale vs. hi-rail From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> 16. Streetlights From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...> 17. Re: Streetlights From: "Tomlinson, John D" <John.Tomlinson@...> 18. Scale and Tin Plate From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> 19. Re: Large Scale Train Show From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 1 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 03:03:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> Subject: hi-rail vs scale Referring to AC vs DC Flyer operation, Chris Zizzo wrote: I am a hi-railer and I have considered converting to DC. I have not yet done so and continue, instead, to buy AC compatible engines. Part of the reason is that going DC is a major shift toward scale. To which Paul Schneider replies: Chris, you're comment about "drifting toward scale" touches on something Ed Loizeaux and I have discussed off-list: The pros and cons of hi-rail vs scale. I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but I wonder: What do others on this list have to say about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with each system? _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 07:04:57 -0400 From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale I am delighted to mix hirail and flyer. I'm thinking about converting some of my hirail stuff to Kadee couplers. The hirail stuff runs infinitely superior to Flyer and you realize they are really different. Run Flyer to appreciate a collectible toy that runs well at high throttle, run hirail for more realistic models and silky smooth slow speed. Also, the sound systems in hirail are really superior. "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Referring to AC vs DC Flyer operation, Chris Zizzo > wrote: > > I am a hi-railer and I > have > considered converting to DC. I have not yet done so > and continue, instead, to buy AC compatible engines. > Part of the reason is that going DC is a > major shift toward scale. > > To which Paul Schneider replies: > > Chris, you're comment about "drifting toward scale" > touches on something Ed Loizeaux and I have discussed > off-list: The pros and cons of hi-rail vs scale. > > I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but > I wonder: What do others on this list have to say > about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? > In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with > each system? > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > It's finally here! What's your opinion? > http://www.onelist.com > Create a Star Wars discussion group at ONElist. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 06:01:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> Subject: Third Rail The #712 Special Track Section (and its ilk) function like an outside third rail pickup, much like is seen on many present day urban commuter rail lines and people movers. For example, the third rail at the Dallas Airport shorted out a few years ago when it snowed there in enough depth to "ground" the third rail and short out the entire sytem between terminals. BTW, on the RecMR newsgroup recently someone had a very good line: What do you call the third rail (e.g., in 3-rail track)? ANSWER: A training rail!! :<) Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:10:46 -0400 From: Bill Clark <clark@...> Subject: Re: AC vs. DC The rectifier in the loco will indeed work. The problem will is reversing. You would need a switch on the loco like the cheap AF locos near the end. If you want new locos with DC cans to work on AC the best solution is the electronic E-unit, as comes with all SHS SW9s, and all AC AM locos. They are also available from Dallee. Again, note that the AF locos do not need modification to run on DC. The reason some people put Bridge Rect on them is to allow them to reverse with poarity, eliminating the mechanical E unit. At 07:46 PM 05/19/1999 -0700, you wrote: >From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> > >Dan Brindell wrote: > >> So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a rectifier >> between your transformer and your track, > >Methinks there is another alternative worth considering. Why not >install the bridge rectifier inside the DC locomotive? That way, the >transformer could continue to put AC on the track. Those locos that run >on AC need no modifications at all. Those locos that you desire to run >on DC can do so if they have the rectifier installed in them. Just be >careful of the heat. Mount the rectifier on a metal plate and keep it >away from plastic. Best to do some careful testing first. Anyone >actually try this? I haven't, but in theory at least, it otter work. > >"S"incerely, > > Ed Loizeaux > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >ONElist: the best source for group communications. >http://www.onelist.com >Join a new list today! >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:10:47 -0400 From: Bill Clark <clark@...> Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale At 03:03 AM 05/20/1999 -0700, you wrote: >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > >I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but >I wonder: What do others on this list have to say >about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? >In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with >each system? > I run a combination of American Flyer and new stuff. I guess I am moving more towards a realistic operation, and away from tinplate. I still love the operating accessories (saw mill, Barrel loader!) but mostly now to show to others. For my own operation I'm moving toward having everything as close to the same scale as possible, slow realistic switching operations, and the like. My favorite locos are my AF Northern, AF Hudson, and the AF Atlantic my brother gave me for Christmas in 1951. All have been converted to DC can motors, Digital Command Control, and full sound. They are absolutely wonderful, and smoke like mad. I also love my SHS SW-9s, which have such beautiful detail and run superbly. I have 3 AM GP9s which I have custom painted and custom decaled for the Bangor and Aroostook, that has also been fun. My current layout is very much like my original one in 1951: Two loops connected with 4 AF switches ion the ping pong table my father built in 1937. All my old plasticville is there, along with all the operating accessories. It is all DCC now, and the AF track has been replaced with SHS, but the whole thing is very tinplate and I love it. As does my granddaughter. Off to one side I have built a switching yard with AM 148 track, and this is where the SW9s spend most of there time building trains for the mainline. To make this better and more realistic most locos and cars (except passenger) have been converted to Kadees. This allows realistic coupling and uncoupling and also looks much better. I'm currently working with some friends to build a large 20x24' layout with 240' of mainline all AM 148 track and 40 some-odd handlayed closed frog switches (so that we can run both Flyer and "scale" wheelsets). This layout will be as realistic as we can make it, but will be designed to allow prototypical operation with dispatcher, switch lists, schedules etc as well as round and around operation while we talk about the old days. All of this has been extreme fun. I'd never want to give up my AF, but the addition of prototype operation, DCC, handlaying track, and all the rest has turned this into a real passion. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:20:50 -0400 From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> Subject: Re: AC vs. DC One point that hasn't been made in the ac versus dc debate is that dc is quieter. There's virtually no 60-cycle (60 Hz) hum from accessories or transformers, etc. Just a small observation. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Brindell [mailto:dbrindell@...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 10:16 PM > To: fasttrack2000@...; s-trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] AC vs. DC > > > From: Dan Brindell <dbrindell@...> > > I just wanted to add my "two cents" worth to the AC vs. DC question. > > Most of the old Flyer trains have "universal" motors, meaning they run on > AC or DC. Some people claim they run smoother on DC, but others dispute > this. If you are an electronic head and know how to wire up a bridge > rectifier to your old Flyer transformer, then try both AC and DC, and form > your own opinion. > > ALL of the old Flyer transformers (except a few labeled "rectiformer") > produce AC only. The reason is, back in the days of vacuum tubes, it was > nearly impossible to build a cheap reliable rectifier to convert AC house > current to DC. So Gilbert built the trains to run on AC or DC, > even though > the "universal" system was more complicated and more expensive to build; > they just had to because they didn't have rectifiers. > > Cut to the present. Most "modern" trains (HO, N, etc.) are DC, because > rectifiers are cheap now (the same reason your computer is cheaper than it > was in 1960) and the motors are simple DC can motors. But here's the > problem. If you try to run a DC motor on an old Flyer AC transformer, you > will probably destroy the motor. In any case, it won't go. (Actually, it > will switch between forward and backward 60 times a second as the > alternating current hits it!) I don't think it will hurt the > transformer, > however. > > So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a rectifier > between your transformer and your track, OR buy a new DC powerpack. If > you decide to buy a DC powerpack, make sure it has enough power > to run your > S loco, not just a dinky little N loco. Of course, the rectified current > (or powerpack current) will run your old trains perfectly well, because > they have universal motors. > > What to do? Depends on what you want. If you like your old Flyer trains > and transformers, stick with AC in your new purchases and keep your life > simple. On the other hand, if you believe the "DC is smoother" club, or > if you want to run HO or N trains too (horrors!), you could try DC. But > anything you save by buying DC engines could be eaten up in purchases of > powerpacks, rectifiers, and switchgear. > > One thing I would definitely NOT do is stick DC can motors in my old Flyer > trains. They run fine on DC, and by changing them you would > wreck whatever > value they have to a collector. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Where do some of the Internet's largest email lists reside? > http://www.onelist.com > At ONElist - the most scalable and reliable service on the Internet. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:20:52 -0400 From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> Subject: Re: AC vs. DC That's exactly what Putt Trains does in its trolleys for AC. The little bridge rectifier is mounted near the can motor, along with a 3-terminal regulator for constant lighting voltage. However, they run in one direction only. I modified mine by removing the bridge and running the can motor from dc, and reversing the polarity at the cab (my control console). Now I can run 'em forward and reverse. Lotsa fun! -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > -----Original Message----- > From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux [mailto:loizeaux@...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 10:47 PM > To: Dan Brindell > Cc: fasttrack2000@...; s-trains@onelist.com > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] AC vs. DC > > > From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> > > Dan Brindell wrote: > > > So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a rectifier > > between your transformer and your track, > > Methinks there is another alternative worth considering. Why not > install the bridge rectifier inside the DC locomotive? That way, the > transformer could continue to put AC on the track. Those locos that run > on AC need no modifications at all. Those locos that you desire to run > on DC can do so if they have the rectifier installed in them. Just be > careful of the heat. Mount the rectifier on a metal plate and keep it > away from plastic. Best to do some careful testing first. Anyone > actually try this? I haven't, but in theory at least, it otter work. > > "S"incerely, > > Ed Loizeaux > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ONElist: the best source for group communications. > http://www.onelist.com > Join a new list today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:27:07 -0400 From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale It's interesting to read about your work Bill. Just how does one go about converting an AF motor to a can motor? Has anything been written about this I can refer to? Where would a novice start? -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Clark [mailto:clark@...] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 9:11 AM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Cc: a1dude@...; Tom.Robichaud@...; Helen.Lenart@...; > helen@...; Mike > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] hi-rail vs scale > > > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > > At 03:03 AM 05/20/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > > >I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but > >I wonder: What do others on this list have to say > >about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? > >In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with > >each system? > > > > I run a combination of American Flyer and new stuff. I guess I am moving > more towards a realistic operation, and away from tinplate. I > still love the > operating accessories (saw mill, Barrel loader!) but mostly now to show to > others. For my own operation I'm moving toward having everything > as close to > the same scale as possible, slow realistic switching operations, > and the like. > > My favorite locos are my AF Northern, AF Hudson, and the AF Atlantic my > brother gave me for Christmas in 1951. All have been converted to DC can > motors, Digital Command Control, and full sound. They are absolutely > wonderful, and smoke like mad. I also love my SHS SW-9s, which have such > beautiful detail and run superbly. I have 3 AM GP9s which I have custom > painted and custom decaled for the Bangor and Aroostook, that has > also been fun. > > My current layout is very much like my original one in 1951: Two loops > connected with 4 AF switches ion the ping pong table my father built in > 1937. All my old plasticville is there, along with all the operating > accessories. It is all DCC now, and the AF track has been > replaced with SHS, > but the whole thing is very tinplate and I love it. As does my > granddaughter. > > Off to one side I have built a switching yard with AM 148 track, > and this is > where the SW9s spend most of there time building trains for the > mainline. To > make this better and more realistic most locos and cars (except passenger) > have been converted to Kadees. This allows realistic coupling and > uncoupling > and also looks much better. > > I'm currently working with some friends to build a large 20x24' > layout with > 240' of mainline all AM 148 track and 40 some-odd handlayed closed frog > switches (so that we can run both Flyer and "scale" wheelsets). > This layout > will be as realistic as we can make it, but will be designed to allow > prototypical operation with dispatcher, switch lists, schedules > etc as well > as round and around operation while we talk about the old days. > > All of this has been extreme fun. I'd never want to give up my AF, but the > addition of prototype operation, DCC, handlaying track, and all > the rest has > turned this into a real passion. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? > http://www.onelist.com > More than 1,000! Create yours now! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:31:58 EDT From: TPDavis7@... Subject: Re: Whistel Controller A Model Rectifier Corp. model #2400 or 2500 will work great! Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:39:17 -0400 From: "Richard L. Kroll" <rkroll@...> Subject: Large Scale Train Show Friends: The June issue of Garden Railways has an ad for the 2nd East Coast Large Scale Train Show - limited to G, O and S - on Aug.28-29, at the Garden State Exhibit Center, Somerset N.J. (which exit?) - the new exit 10 on I287. It's right off the exit. Get a new map - the exit was renumbered about two years ago, was 5 or 6. Double Tree in rate is $69. For info. 718-788-0516. I have no personal involvement in this, just thought some folks might like to know. I didn't know about last year's first show, have no idea how much S there might be. Did anyone go? Dick K. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:22:22 EDT From: Toyguy5344@... Subject: scale vs. hi-rail This debate of AC/DC, scale/hi-rail is starting to sound like a "keeping up with the Jones' " or (HORRORS!!!) a " PC " issue. We are talking about 40 and 50 year old , collectable toy trains and their relative merits/drawbacks to current production, scale (or near-scale: flying modelers have a category called stand-off scale) equipment. Did anybody say "apples and oranges?" As to putting a can motor in a Gilbert prime mov- er to "improve" it, what do you think of putting a Chevy small block into a Duesenberg SJ ? If it aint broke, don't fix it!! My tinplate has it's place, my scale stuff has it's place. Running a 20's Flyer 3100 on the same layout as a Gilbert Flyer 326 gives one some perspective on how things changed in the timeline of the 1st 1/2 of the century vis-a-vis toy trains. In reality land, the P5 outlived the Hudson on the rails! The pleasure of owning and operating toy trains-of any gauge, era, or manufacturer is not diminished nor enhanced by adhering to anyone's set of rules. I know people whose layouts run on schedules, have destinations and purposes for train A to go tto point Z whilst train B awaits the load of barrels at factory L to be invoiced.And that's ok with me. My layout, with it's people interspersed with rabbits , farms that breed dinosaurs, and a Guilford station that has cows leave the platform while, across town, men in gray flannel pace the stockyard waiting for the MOPAC to Darien, does raise some eyebrows. and that's ok, too. Keeping the equipment original, maintained, and "doing it's thing" (providing FUN!) is my priority.I'm comitted to electric trains, the fun and Peter Pan principle thereof, and what current production items I have, are all AC compatible.Modern stuff should be adapted to run in the classic arena, not the other way around.-john marganski ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:20:51 -0400 From: Bill Clark <clark@...> Subject: Re: scale vs. hi-rail At 10:22 AM 05/20/1999 EDT, you wrote: >From: Toyguy5344@... > >This debate of AC/DC, scale/hi-rail is starting to sound like a "keeping up >with the Jones' " or (HORRORS!!!) a " PC " issue. We are talking about 40 and No debate here! Someone asked about comparisons of AC and DC, which to me is a very reasonable question. Then a question was asked about scale vs hirail, pros and cons, mixing etc. Again to me a very valid question, with an infinite number of valid answers. Since I love to read and write about S gauge trains, I decided to enter my feelings, and am looking forward to as many as possible other views. To me, all this is positive and fun, with no question of a debate or right or wrong. Thanks! Bill ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:52:40 -0400 From: "jdoran" <jdoran@...> Subject: third rail, 785 footprint, York dates and success In order, there was an article in S-gaugian (don't have date yet) about howw to build these, I'll see if I can dig out the issue date tonight. The 785 footprint is 5"x5" but don't forget the boom for the bucket is another 4" on that side. York is October 15-16 (Fri-Sat). The non-afilliated meets run all week. The auto switch circuit works! Connect both base posts on the switches to the transformer base post. THe power side of the transformer goes thru trip (697) to either the appropriate post ofnthe switches anf you need a jumper to the straight section between the switches. OK that's not clear. I'll figure out what I'm trying to say and repost tonight with a diagram. End of lunch hour, back to work. Doc ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:57:24 -0400 From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> Subject: Re: scale vs. hi-rail Toyguy5344@... wrote: > and what current production items I have, are all AC compatible.Modern stuff > should be adapted to run in the classic arena, not the other way around.-john > marganski -- I was with you right up to the above "rule"! Whatever anyone does is OK with me as long as it doesn't force me to go along, and I can enjoy my trains my way. Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:25:15 -0700 From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Doin' S YOUR way! WAS: scale vs. hi-rail I like Bill Clark's idea, so I'm proposing a change for the subject heading that avoids an "Us vs them" possible connotation. I know how I prefer my S, but I enjoy hearing all the other ways that people enjoy it. I once read a Model Railroad Introductory guide that stated the modelers advance from toy trains to scale models. Hurmph! They may change from one to another, but I wouldn't say it's an advancement, either is a legitimate variation of the train hobby! So, how do I like my S?? Well, so far I only have temporary layouts, but I run for fun, sometimes my AF is modified, so it looks different (Usually done to basket cases, or wrecks!), and I enjoy the challenge of a properly sequencing reverse unit! I'm also annoyed at switches that seem to cause random halts of train movements, but that's just part of what you get with old AC trains. I would like to someday build a permanent layout, with scenery and a level of realism that matches the trains. Some claim that they were built to run on the floor--well, yes, the engineering did allow that, but all the AF books show layouts, wonderful worlds you built with your parents or grandparents and siblings! So I believe both types of operation are valid for Flyer! I have also built an S sized trolley that runs on HO track (3-1/2' or close in S), haven't run it for years, but it did grace the center of a display layout on year, so I'm "guilty" of scratchbuilding too! yes, DC does seem to run smoother (I bought some engines recently that had been converted w/ rectifiers) but I have far too much equipment on hand to make the conversion--at least that's my story for now! I do sneak in rectifiers on my action cabooses and such to keep the humming down! That being said, I will also admit that I am impressed by various scale members' work, and am always interested in what others do in S and promoting S as I think it's the best scale overall. So, how do YOU do S?? S' David D. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 16 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:01:08 -0700 From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...> Subject: Streetlights See http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?59960 (a larger photo is at http://holidaytree.com/59960.html) and http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?52627 These lights look nice and they actually light. Amazingly the resin unlighted ones (the "streetlights named bizzare") cost over twice as much. Go figure. Also check out the vehicles at http://www.christmasmouse.com/56svacat.htm (especially the 1955 Fords). If they're the right size for snow villages, they're probably close to S Scale. P.S. I want to thank those of you who emailed me the info re the Schwans offer. Monty -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 17 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:39:04 -0700 From: "Tomlinson, John D" <John.Tomlinson@...> Subject: Re: Streetlights I though everyone knew why the resin unlighted ones were twice as costly -- ITS BECAUSE THEY RESINATE (sic)....;) ....... sorry, it's been a long morning --- too long I did appreciate the URL about the Dept56 lights. I have often looked at them and wondered how they would work on the layout. John D. Tomlinson > Configuration Mgmt Deployment - CA-Endevor Support > 6-6M67 M/S: 6F-62 Bldg: 7-311.3 > Ph: (425) 477-4589 Pgr: (206) 986-5329 Hotline: (206) 655-HELP > Boeing Web page: http://www-ads.ca.boeing.com/cmd > > > ---------- > From: L Montgomery[SMTP:lmontgo@...] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 1:01 PM > To: S-Trains > Subject: [S-Trains] Streetlights > > From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...> > > See http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?59960 > (a larger photo is at http://holidaytree.com/59960.html) > > and http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?52627 > > These lights look nice and they actually light. Amazingly the resin unlighted ones (the "streetlights named bizzare") cost over twice as much. > > Go figure. > > Also check out the vehicles at http://www.christmasmouse.com/56svacat.htm (especially the 1955 Fords). If they're the right size for snow villages, they're probably close to S Scale. > > P.S. I want to thank those of you who emailed me the info re the Schwans offer. > > Monty > > > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? > http://www.onelist.com > More than 1,000! Create yours now! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 18 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:27:13 -0400 From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> Subject: Scale and Tin Plate Hi Ya'll, Here is 2 more cents. My interest is scale. That means my layout (under construction) will feature things that look a lot like real things that are just small. But, I live near some Flyer collectors and I enjoy that old stuff too. So, I'm considering making my mainline loop out of American Models code 148 flex track. It means I'll have to hand lay three turnouts and add a few electrical switches and then I'll be able to send some vintage Flyer things on a tour of the scale layout scenery. I even bought a 30B to power them when it is their turn to run. Great ZOT itS, Bill Porter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 19 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:33:56 -0400 From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> Subject: Re: Large Scale Train Show Dear Richard, S Helper Service will have a booth at the East Coast Large Scale Train Show. We only live a few miles from the show hall and the people putting the show on are dear friends (S owes them a lot, as they introduced us to our builers who now makes some of the models for American Models, S Scale American (DesPlaines), PBL. American Flyer (yes, the hated "L" company), etc.). If anyone is in the area, please drop by. When we find out our booth number, I will let everyone know. They are now looking for an S layout (either portable or module) to display at this show, if you know someone who is interested, please let us know and we will pass this information on. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3133	From: Dalessandro, David L TL13C	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Penn Central

Does anyone know if anyone made or is going to make a Penn Central Diesel with that cool aqua-green and white paint scheme with a caboose? Thanks Dave Dalessandro -----Original Message----- From: S-Trains@onelist.com [SMTP:S-Trains@onelist.com] Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 4:50 AM To: S-Trains@onelist.com Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 242 What was YOUR favorite part?! http://www.onelist.com Tell other Star Wars fans at ONElist! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm There are 19 messages in this issue. Topics in today's digest: 1. hi-rail vs scale From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> 2. Re: hi-rail vs scale From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> 3. Third Rail From: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> 4. Re: AC vs. DC From: Bill Clark <clark@...> 5. Re: hi-rail vs scale From: Bill Clark <clark@...> 6. Re: AC vs. DC From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> 7. Re: AC vs. DC From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> 8. Re: hi-rail vs scale From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> 9. Re: Whistel Controller From: TPDavis7@... 10. Large Scale Train Show From: "Richard L. Kroll" <rkroll@...> 11. scale vs. hi-rail From: Toyguy5344@... 12. Re: scale vs. hi-rail From: Bill Clark <clark@...> 13. third rail, 785 footprint, York dates and success From: "jdoran" <jdoran@...> 14. Re: scale vs. hi-rail From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> 15. Doin' S YOUR way! WAS: scale vs. hi-rail From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> 16. Streetlights From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...> 17. Re: Streetlights From: "Tomlinson, John D" <John.Tomlinson@...> 18. Scale and Tin Plate From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> 19. Re: Large Scale Train Show From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 1 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 03:03:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> Subject: hi-rail vs scale Referring to AC vs DC Flyer operation, Chris Zizzo wrote: I am a hi-railer and I have considered converting to DC. I have not yet done so and continue, instead, to buy AC compatible engines. Part of the reason is that going DC is a major shift toward scale. To which Paul Schneider replies: Chris, you're comment about "drifting toward scale" touches on something Ed Loizeaux and I have discussed off-list: The pros and cons of hi-rail vs scale. I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but I wonder: What do others on this list have to say about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with each system? _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 07:04:57 -0400 From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale I am delighted to mix hirail and flyer. I'm thinking about converting some of my hirail stuff to Kadee couplers. The hirail stuff runs infinitely superior to Flyer and you realize they are really different. Run Flyer to appreciate a collectible toy that runs well at high throttle, run hirail for more realistic models and silky smooth slow speed. Also, the sound systems in hirail are really superior. "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Referring to AC vs DC Flyer operation, Chris Zizzo > wrote: > > I am a hi-railer and I > have > considered converting to DC. I have not yet done so > and continue, instead, to buy AC compatible engines. > Part of the reason is that going DC is a > major shift toward scale. > > To which Paul Schneider replies: > > Chris, you're comment about "drifting toward scale" > touches on something Ed Loizeaux and I have discussed > off-list: The pros and cons of hi-rail vs scale. > > I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but > I wonder: What do others on this list have to say > about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? > In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with > each system? > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > It's finally here! What's your opinion? > http://www.onelist.com > Create a Star Wars discussion group at ONElist. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 06:01:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> Subject: Third Rail The #712 Special Track Section (and its ilk) function like an outside third rail pickup, much like is seen on many present day urban commuter rail lines and people movers. For example, the third rail at the Dallas Airport shorted out a few years ago when it snowed there in enough depth to "ground" the third rail and short out the entire sytem between terminals. BTW, on the RecMR newsgroup recently someone had a very good line: What do you call the third rail (e.g., in 3-rail track)? ANSWER: A training rail!! :<) Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:10:46 -0400 From: Bill Clark <clark@...> Subject: Re: AC vs. DC The rectifier in the loco will indeed work. The problem will is reversing. You would need a switch on the loco like the cheap AF locos near the end. If you want new locos with DC cans to work on AC the best solution is the electronic E-unit, as comes with all SHS SW9s, and all AC AM locos. They are also available from Dallee. Again, note that the AF locos do not need modification to run on DC. The reason some people put Bridge Rect on them is to allow them to reverse with poarity, eliminating the mechanical E unit. At 07:46 PM 05/19/1999 -0700, you wrote: >From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> > >Dan Brindell wrote: > >> So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a rectifier >> between your transformer and your track, > >Methinks there is another alternative worth considering. Why not >install the bridge rectifier inside the DC locomotive? That way, the >transformer could continue to put AC on the track. Those locos that run >on AC need no modifications at all. Those locos that you desire to run >on DC can do so if they have the rectifier installed in them. Just be >careful of the heat. Mount the rectifier on a metal plate and keep it >away from plastic. Best to do some careful testing first. Anyone >actually try this? I haven't, but in theory at least, it otter work. > >"S"incerely, > > Ed Loizeaux > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >ONElist: the best source for group communications. >http://www.onelist.com >Join a new list today! >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:10:47 -0400 From: Bill Clark <clark@...> Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale At 03:03 AM 05/20/1999 -0700, you wrote: >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > >I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but >I wonder: What do others on this list have to say >about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? >In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with >each system? > I run a combination of American Flyer and new stuff. I guess I am moving more towards a realistic operation, and away from tinplate. I still love the operating accessories (saw mill, Barrel loader!) but mostly now to show to others. For my own operation I'm moving toward having everything as close to the same scale as possible, slow realistic switching operations, and the like. My favorite locos are my AF Northern, AF Hudson, and the AF Atlantic my brother gave me for Christmas in 1951. All have been converted to DC can motors, Digital Command Control, and full sound. They are absolutely wonderful, and smoke like mad. I also love my SHS SW-9s, which have such beautiful detail and run superbly. I have 3 AM GP9s which I have custom painted and custom decaled for the Bangor and Aroostook, that has also been fun. My current layout is very much like my original one in 1951: Two loops connected with 4 AF switches ion the ping pong table my father built in 1937. All my old plasticville is there, along with all the operating accessories. It is all DCC now, and the AF track has been replaced with SHS, but the whole thing is very tinplate and I love it. As does my granddaughter. Off to one side I have built a switching yard with AM 148 track, and this is where the SW9s spend most of there time building trains for the mainline. To make this better and more realistic most locos and cars (except passenger) have been converted to Kadees. This allows realistic coupling and uncoupling and also looks much better. I'm currently working with some friends to build a large 20x24' layout with 240' of mainline all AM 148 track and 40 some-odd handlayed closed frog switches (so that we can run both Flyer and "scale" wheelsets). This layout will be as realistic as we can make it, but will be designed to allow prototypical operation with dispatcher, switch lists, schedules etc as well as round and around operation while we talk about the old days. All of this has been extreme fun. I'd never want to give up my AF, but the addition of prototype operation, DCC, handlaying track, and all the rest has turned this into a real passion. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:20:50 -0400 From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> Subject: Re: AC vs. DC One point that hasn't been made in the ac versus dc debate is that dc is quieter. There's virtually no 60-cycle (60 Hz) hum from accessories or transformers, etc. Just a small observation. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Brindell [mailto:dbrindell@...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 10:16 PM > To: fasttrack2000@...; s-trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] AC vs. DC > > > From: Dan Brindell <dbrindell@...> > > I just wanted to add my "two cents" worth to the AC vs. DC question. > > Most of the old Flyer trains have "universal" motors, meaning they run on > AC or DC. Some people claim they run smoother on DC, but others dispute > this. If you are an electronic head and know how to wire up a bridge > rectifier to your old Flyer transformer, then try both AC and DC, and form > your own opinion. > > ALL of the old Flyer transformers (except a few labeled "rectiformer") > produce AC only. The reason is, back in the days of vacuum tubes, it was > nearly impossible to build a cheap reliable rectifier to convert AC house > current to DC. So Gilbert built the trains to run on AC or DC, > even though > the "universal" system was more complicated and more expensive to build; > they just had to because they didn't have rectifiers. > > Cut to the present. Most "modern" trains (HO, N, etc.) are DC, because > rectifiers are cheap now (the same reason your computer is cheaper than it > was in 1960) and the motors are simple DC can motors. But here's the > problem. If you try to run a DC motor on an old Flyer AC transformer, you > will probably destroy the motor. In any case, it won't go. (Actually, it > will switch between forward and backward 60 times a second as the > alternating current hits it!) I don't think it will hurt the > transformer, > however. > > So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a rectifier > between your transformer and your track, OR buy a new DC powerpack. If > you decide to buy a DC powerpack, make sure it has enough power > to run your > S loco, not just a dinky little N loco. Of course, the rectified current > (or powerpack current) will run your old trains perfectly well, because > they have universal motors. > > What to do? Depends on what you want. If you like your old Flyer trains > and transformers, stick with AC in your new purchases and keep your life > simple. On the other hand, if you believe the "DC is smoother" club, or > if you want to run HO or N trains too (horrors!), you could try DC. But > anything you save by buying DC engines could be eaten up in purchases of > powerpacks, rectifiers, and switchgear. > > One thing I would definitely NOT do is stick DC can motors in my old Flyer > trains. They run fine on DC, and by changing them you would > wreck whatever > value they have to a collector. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Where do some of the Internet's largest email lists reside? > http://www.onelist.com > At ONElist - the most scalable and reliable service on the Internet. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:20:52 -0400 From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> Subject: Re: AC vs. DC That's exactly what Putt Trains does in its trolleys for AC. The little bridge rectifier is mounted near the can motor, along with a 3-terminal regulator for constant lighting voltage. However, they run in one direction only. I modified mine by removing the bridge and running the can motor from dc, and reversing the polarity at the cab (my control console). Now I can run 'em forward and reverse. Lotsa fun! -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > -----Original Message----- > From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux [mailto:loizeaux@...] > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 10:47 PM > To: Dan Brindell > Cc: fasttrack2000@...; s-trains@onelist.com > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] AC vs. DC > > > From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> > > Dan Brindell wrote: > > > So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a rectifier > > between your transformer and your track, > > Methinks there is another alternative worth considering. Why not > install the bridge rectifier inside the DC locomotive? That way, the > transformer could continue to put AC on the track. Those locos that run > on AC need no modifications at all. Those locos that you desire to run > on DC can do so if they have the rectifier installed in them. Just be > careful of the heat. Mount the rectifier on a metal plate and keep it > away from plastic. Best to do some careful testing first. Anyone > actually try this? I haven't, but in theory at least, it otter work. > > "S"incerely, > > Ed Loizeaux > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ONElist: the best source for group communications. > http://www.onelist.com > Join a new list today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:27:07 -0400 From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale It's interesting to read about your work Bill. Just how does one go about converting an AF motor to a can motor? Has anything been written about this I can refer to? Where would a novice start? -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > -----Original Message----- > From: Bill Clark [mailto:clark@...] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 9:11 AM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Cc: a1dude@...; Tom.Robichaud@...; Helen.Lenart@...; > helen@...; Mike > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] hi-rail vs scale > > > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > > At 03:03 AM 05/20/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > > >I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but > >I wonder: What do others on this list have to say > >about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? > >In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with > >each system? > > > > I run a combination of American Flyer and new stuff. I guess I am moving > more towards a realistic operation, and away from tinplate. I > still love the > operating accessories (saw mill, Barrel loader!) but mostly now to show to > others. For my own operation I'm moving toward having everything > as close to > the same scale as possible, slow realistic switching operations, > and the like. > > My favorite locos are my AF Northern, AF Hudson, and the AF Atlantic my > brother gave me for Christmas in 1951. All have been converted to DC can > motors, Digital Command Control, and full sound. They are absolutely > wonderful, and smoke like mad. I also love my SHS SW-9s, which have such > beautiful detail and run superbly. I have 3 AM GP9s which I have custom > painted and custom decaled for the Bangor and Aroostook, that has > also been fun. > > My current layout is very much like my original one in 1951: Two loops > connected with 4 AF switches ion the ping pong table my father built in > 1937. All my old plasticville is there, along with all the operating > accessories. It is all DCC now, and the AF track has been > replaced with SHS, > but the whole thing is very tinplate and I love it. As does my > granddaughter. > > Off to one side I have built a switching yard with AM 148 track, > and this is > where the SW9s spend most of there time building trains for the > mainline. To > make this better and more realistic most locos and cars (except passenger) > have been converted to Kadees. This allows realistic coupling and > uncoupling > and also looks much better. > > I'm currently working with some friends to build a large 20x24' > layout with > 240' of mainline all AM 148 track and 40 some-odd handlayed closed frog > switches (so that we can run both Flyer and "scale" wheelsets). > This layout > will be as realistic as we can make it, but will be designed to allow > prototypical operation with dispatcher, switch lists, schedules > etc as well > as round and around operation while we talk about the old days. > > All of this has been extreme fun. I'd never want to give up my AF, but the > addition of prototype operation, DCC, handlaying track, and all > the rest has > turned this into a real passion. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? > http://www.onelist.com > More than 1,000! Create yours now! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:31:58 EDT From: TPDavis7@... Subject: Re: Whistel Controller A Model Rectifier Corp. model #2400 or 2500 will work great! Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:39:17 -0400 From: "Richard L. Kroll" <rkroll@...> Subject: Large Scale Train Show Friends: The June issue of Garden Railways has an ad for the 2nd East Coast Large Scale Train Show - limited to G, O and S - on Aug.28-29, at the Garden State Exhibit Center, Somerset N.J. (which exit?) - the new exit 10 on I287. It's right off the exit. Get a new map - the exit was renumbered about two years ago, was 5 or 6. Double Tree in rate is $69. For info. 718-788-0516. I have no personal involvement in this, just thought some folks might like to know. I didn't know about last year's first show, have no idea how much S there might be. Did anyone go? Dick K. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 11 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:22:22 EDT From: Toyguy5344@... Subject: scale vs. hi-rail This debate of AC/DC, scale/hi-rail is starting to sound like a "keeping up with the Jones' " or (HORRORS!!!) a " PC " issue. We are talking about 40 and 50 year old , collectable toy trains and their relative merits/drawbacks to current production, scale (or near-scale: flying modelers have a category called stand-off scale) equipment. Did anybody say "apples and oranges?" As to putting a can motor in a Gilbert prime mov- er to "improve" it, what do you think of putting a Chevy small block into a Duesenberg SJ ? If it aint broke, don't fix it!! My tinplate has it's place, my scale stuff has it's place. Running a 20's Flyer 3100 on the same layout as a Gilbert Flyer 326 gives one some perspective on how things changed in the timeline of the 1st 1/2 of the century vis-a-vis toy trains. In reality land, the P5 outlived the Hudson on the rails! The pleasure of owning and operating toy trains-of any gauge, era, or manufacturer is not diminished nor enhanced by adhering to anyone's set of rules. I know people whose layouts run on schedules, have destinations and purposes for train A to go tto point Z whilst train B awaits the load of barrels at factory L to be invoiced.And that's ok with me. My layout, with it's people interspersed with rabbits , farms that breed dinosaurs, and a Guilford station that has cows leave the platform while, across town, men in gray flannel pace the stockyard waiting for the MOPAC to Darien, does raise some eyebrows. and that's ok, too. Keeping the equipment original, maintained, and "doing it's thing" (providing FUN!) is my priority.I'm comitted to electric trains, the fun and Peter Pan principle thereof, and what current production items I have, are all AC compatible.Modern stuff should be adapted to run in the classic arena, not the other way around.-john marganski ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 12 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:20:51 -0400 From: Bill Clark <clark@...> Subject: Re: scale vs. hi-rail At 10:22 AM 05/20/1999 EDT, you wrote: >From: Toyguy5344@... > >This debate of AC/DC, scale/hi-rail is starting to sound like a "keeping up >with the Jones' " or (HORRORS!!!) a " PC " issue. We are talking about 40 and No debate here! Someone asked about comparisons of AC and DC, which to me is a very reasonable question. Then a question was asked about scale vs hirail, pros and cons, mixing etc. Again to me a very valid question, with an infinite number of valid answers. Since I love to read and write about S gauge trains, I decided to enter my feelings, and am looking forward to as many as possible other views. To me, all this is positive and fun, with no question of a debate or right or wrong. Thanks! Bill ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 13 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:52:40 -0400 From: "jdoran" <jdoran@...> Subject: third rail, 785 footprint, York dates and success In order, there was an article in S-gaugian (don't have date yet) about howw to build these, I'll see if I can dig out the issue date tonight. The 785 footprint is 5"x5" but don't forget the boom for the bucket is another 4" on that side. York is October 15-16 (Fri-Sat). The non-afilliated meets run all week. The auto switch circuit works! Connect both base posts on the switches to the transformer base post. THe power side of the transformer goes thru trip (697) to either the appropriate post ofnthe switches anf you need a jumper to the straight section between the switches. OK that's not clear. I'll figure out what I'm trying to say and repost tonight with a diagram. End of lunch hour, back to work. Doc ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:57:24 -0400 From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> Subject: Re: scale vs. hi-rail Toyguy5344@... wrote: > and what current production items I have, are all AC compatible.Modern stuff > should be adapted to run in the classic arena, not the other way around.-john > marganski -- I was with you right up to the above "rule"! Whatever anyone does is OK with me as long as it doesn't force me to go along, and I can enjoy my trains my way. Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 15 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:25:15 -0700 From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Doin' S YOUR way! WAS: scale vs. hi-rail I like Bill Clark's idea, so I'm proposing a change for the subject heading that avoids an "Us vs them" possible connotation. I know how I prefer my S, but I enjoy hearing all the other ways that people enjoy it. I once read a Model Railroad Introductory guide that stated the modelers advance from toy trains to scale models. Hurmph! They may change from one to another, but I wouldn't say it's an advancement, either is a legitimate variation of the train hobby! So, how do I like my S?? Well, so far I only have temporary layouts, but I run for fun, sometimes my AF is modified, so it looks different (Usually done to basket cases, or wrecks!), and I enjoy the challenge of a properly sequencing reverse unit! I'm also annoyed at switches that seem to cause random halts of train movements, but that's just part of what you get with old AC trains. I would like to someday build a permanent layout, with scenery and a level of realism that matches the trains. Some claim that they were built to run on the floor--well, yes, the engineering did allow that, but all the AF books show layouts, wonderful worlds you built with your parents or grandparents and siblings! So I believe both types of operation are valid for Flyer! I have also built an S sized trolley that runs on HO track (3-1/2' or close in S), haven't run it for years, but it did grace the center of a display layout on year, so I'm "guilty" of scratchbuilding too! yes, DC does seem to run smoother (I bought some engines recently that had been converted w/ rectifiers) but I have far too much equipment on hand to make the conversion--at least that's my story for now! I do sneak in rectifiers on my action cabooses and such to keep the humming down! That being said, I will also admit that I am impressed by various scale members' work, and am always interested in what others do in S and promoting S as I think it's the best scale overall. So, how do YOU do S?? S' David D. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 16 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:01:08 -0700 From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...> Subject: Streetlights See http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?59960 (a larger photo is at http://holidaytree.com/59960.html) and http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?52627 These lights look nice and they actually light. Amazingly the resin unlighted ones (the "streetlights named bizzare") cost over twice as much. Go figure. Also check out the vehicles at http://www.christmasmouse.com/56svacat.htm (especially the 1955 Fords). If they're the right size for snow villages, they're probably close to S Scale. P.S. I want to thank those of you who emailed me the info re the Schwans offer. Monty -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 17 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:39:04 -0700 From: "Tomlinson, John D" <John.Tomlinson@...> Subject: Re: Streetlights I though everyone knew why the resin unlighted ones were twice as costly -- ITS BECAUSE THEY RESINATE (sic)....;) ....... sorry, it's been a long morning --- too long I did appreciate the URL about the Dept56 lights. I have often looked at them and wondered how they would work on the layout. John D. Tomlinson > Configuration Mgmt Deployment - CA-Endevor Support > 6-6M67 M/S: 6F-62 Bldg: 7-311.3 > Ph: (425) 477-4589 Pgr: (206) 986-5329 Hotline: (206) 655-HELP > Boeing Web page: http://www-ads.ca.boeing.com/cmd > > > ---------- > From: L Montgomery[SMTP:lmontgo@...] > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 1:01 PM > To: S-Trains > Subject: [S-Trains] Streetlights > > From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...> > > See http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?59960 > (a larger photo is at http://holidaytree.com/59960.html) > > and http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?52627 > > These lights look nice and they actually light. Amazingly the resin unlighted ones (the "streetlights named bizzare") cost over twice as much. > > Go figure. > > Also check out the vehicles at http://www.christmasmouse.com/56svacat.htm (especially the 1955 Fords). If they're the right size for snow villages, they're probably close to S Scale. > > P.S. I want to thank those of you who emailed me the info re the Schwans offer. > > Monty > > > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? > http://www.onelist.com > More than 1,000! Create yours now! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 18 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:27:13 -0400 From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> Subject: Scale and Tin Plate Hi Ya'll, Here is 2 more cents. My interest is scale. That means my layout (under construction) will feature things that look a lot like real things that are just small. But, I live near some Flyer collectors and I enjoy that old stuff too. So, I'm considering making my mainline loop out of American Models code 148 flex track. It means I'll have to hand lay three turnouts and add a few electrical switches and then I'll be able to send some vintage Flyer things on a tour of the scale layout scenery. I even bought a 30B to power them when it is their turn to run. Great ZOT itS, Bill Porter ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 19 Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:33:56 -0400 From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> Subject: Re: Large Scale Train Show Dear Richard, S Helper Service will have a booth at the East Coast Large Scale Train Show. We only live a few miles from the show hall and the people putting the show on are dear friends (S owes them a lot, as they introduced us to our builers who now makes some of the models for American Models, S Scale American (DesPlaines), PBL. American Flyer (yes, the hated "L" company), etc.). If anyone is in the area, please drop by. When we find out our booth number, I will let everyone know. They are now looking for an S layout (either portable or module) to display at this show, if you know someone who is interested, please let us know and we will pass this information on. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3134	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Semaphore screw

Does anybody know the part number for the screw on the 761 semaphore that connects the arm to the lamp housing? _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3135	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Closed Frog Switches

For those interested in using the BK Enterprises closed frog turnouts, ther is a good 2-1/2 page article on installing and fine tuning these turnouts in the February 1999 issue of the NASG Dispatch. Lee Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3136	From: Allen Evans	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Live Steam Model Running With Train

I got this idea - Bur or build a live steam model engine, something like the one made by Stuart Models, and run it in concert with your model engine. Stuart's "Twin Victoria" live steam model engine seems like it might provide this capability, having twin cylinders, and being only 16" long, able to sit along the layout. http://www.stuartmodels.com/machined/mac-twin.html Has anyone out there already tried this? Im curious if this really enhances the model railroading experience. Allen Evans Covington, Louisiana ==================================================== "Dalessandro, David L TL13C" wrote: > From: "Dalessandro, David L TL13C" <David.Dalessandro2@...> > > As a 35 year old that has been collecting AC Gilbert Flyer for 10 > years now that there is a need to add new exciting pieces to your layout. I > have no problem running my AF 494-495 New Havens next to a Brass {painted of > course} N+W 4-6-6-4 Articulated Steamer. I am careful in laying out my > American Models track for a 72" curve and insure that the engine with the > scale wheels will have no reason to derail at a respectable speed. It also > ensures the other hi Rail engines have a smooth ride. Its not that IM tired > of the Old Flyer, I just like to enhance my Fleet with cool interesting > items. I was too young to grow up with Flyer, I had HO, sorry. I was > impressed so much by the perfect scale of flyer as well as repulsed by how > silly Lionel engines looked with that 3rd rail thing and smooched looking > cars. I decided to hunt down this odd scale train I had not seen advertised > in my childhood. I learned more about S and Flyer, it was all over, I love > it however there always needs to be a fresh supply of new items to keep me > happy!! I would prefer not to spend $1000-2500 for the articulated steamers > and duplex engines however I need these to keep me in this scale. Do > whatever you have to do electrically to run both AC or DC-DCC whenever you > want, we are no longer limited to needing to run only AC or DC. I am still > learning however It really is not that hard once you find a good resource to > learn from. > > Thanks > Dave Dalessandro > > -----Original Message----- > From: S-Trains@onelist.com [SMTP:S-Trains@onelist.com] > Sent: Friday, May 21, 1999 4:50 AM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 242 > > What was YOUR favorite part?! > http://www.onelist.com > Tell other Star Wars fans at ONElist! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > There are 19 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. hi-rail vs scale > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > 2. Re: hi-rail vs scale > From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > 3. Third Rail > From: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> > 4. Re: AC vs. DC > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > 5. Re: hi-rail vs scale > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > 6. Re: AC vs. DC > From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> > 7. Re: AC vs. DC > From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> > 8. Re: hi-rail vs scale > From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> > 9. Re: Whistel Controller > From: TPDavis7@... > 10. Large Scale Train Show > From: "Richard L. Kroll" <rkroll@...> > 11. scale vs. hi-rail > From: Toyguy5344@... > 12. Re: scale vs. hi-rail > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > 13. third rail, 785 footprint, York dates and success > From: "jdoran" <jdoran@...> > 14. Re: scale vs. hi-rail > From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > 15. Doin' S YOUR way! WAS: scale vs. hi-rail > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > 16. Streetlights > From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...> > 17. Re: Streetlights > From: "Tomlinson, John D" <John.Tomlinson@...> > 18. Scale and Tin Plate > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > 19. Re: Large Scale Train Show > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 03:03:58 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > Subject: hi-rail vs scale > > Referring to AC vs DC Flyer operation, Chris Zizzo > wrote: > > I am a hi-railer and I > have > considered converting to DC. I have not yet done so > and continue, instead, to buy AC compatible engines. > Part of the reason is that going DC is a > major shift toward scale. > > To which Paul Schneider replies: > > Chris, you're comment about "drifting toward scale" > touches on something Ed Loizeaux and I have discussed > off-list: The pros and cons of hi-rail vs scale. > > I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but > I wonder: What do others on this list have to say > about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? > In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with > each system? > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 07:04:57 -0400 > From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale > > I am delighted to mix hirail and flyer. I'm thinking about > converting > some of my hirail stuff to Kadee couplers. The hirail stuff runs > infinitely superior to Flyer and you realize they are really > different. > Run Flyer to appreciate a collectible toy that runs well at high > throttle, run hirail for more realistic models and silky smooth slow > speed. Also, the sound systems in hirail are really superior. > > "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > > > Referring to AC vs DC Flyer operation, Chris Zizzo > > wrote: > > > > I am a hi-railer and I > > have > > considered converting to DC. I have not yet done so > > and continue, instead, to buy AC compatible engines. > > Part of the reason is that going DC is a > > major shift toward scale. > > > > To which Paul Schneider replies: > > > > Chris, you're comment about "drifting toward scale" > > touches on something Ed Loizeaux and I have discussed > > off-list: The pros and cons of hi-rail vs scale. > > > > I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but > > I wonder: What do others on this list have to say > > about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? > > In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with > > each system? > > > > _____________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > It's finally here! What's your opinion? > > http://www.onelist.com > > Create a Star Wars discussion group at ONElist. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 06:01:27 -0700 (PDT) > From: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> > Subject: Third Rail > > The #712 Special Track Section (and its ilk) function > like an outside third rail pickup, much like is seen > on many present day urban commuter rail lines and > people movers. For example, the third rail at the > Dallas Airport shorted out a few years ago when it > snowed there in enough depth to "ground" the third > rail and short out the entire sytem between terminals. > > BTW, on the RecMR newsgroup recently someone had a > very good line: > > What do you call the third rail (e.g., in 3-rail > track)? > > ANSWER: A training rail!! :<) > > Joe > > === > Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 > 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 > Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer > Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines > American Models ########################## S-Helper Service > joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:10:46 -0400 > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > Subject: Re: AC vs. DC > > The rectifier in the loco will indeed work. The problem will is > reversing. > You would need a switch on the loco like the cheap AF locos near the > end. If > you want new locos with DC cans to work on AC the best solution is > the > electronic E-unit, as comes with all SHS SW9s, and all AC AM locos. > They are > also available from Dallee. > > Again, note that the AF locos do not need modification to run on DC. > The > reason some people put Bridge Rect on them is to allow them to > reverse with > poarity, eliminating the mechanical E unit. > > At 07:46 PM 05/19/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> > > > >Dan Brindell wrote: > > > >> So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a > rectifier > >> between your transformer and your track, > > > >Methinks there is another alternative worth considering. Why not > >install the bridge rectifier inside the DC locomotive? That way, > the > >transformer could continue to put AC on the track. Those locos > that run > >on AC need no modifications at all. Those locos that you desire to > run > >on DC can do so if they have the rectifier installed in them. Just > be > >careful of the heat. Mount the rectifier on a metal plate and keep > it > >away from plastic. Best to do some careful testing first. Anyone > >actually try this? I haven't, but in theory at least, it otter > work. > > > >"S"incerely, > > > > Ed Loizeaux > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >ONElist: the best source for group communications. > >http://www.onelist.com > >Join a new list today! > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:10:47 -0400 > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale > > At 03:03 AM 05/20/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > > >I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but > >I wonder: What do others on this list have to say > >about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? > >In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with > >each system? > > > > I run a combination of American Flyer and new stuff. I guess I am > moving > more towards a realistic operation, and away from tinplate. I still > love the > operating accessories (saw mill, Barrel loader!) but mostly now to > show to > others. For my own operation I'm moving toward having everything as > close to > the same scale as possible, slow realistic switching operations, and > the like. > > My favorite locos are my AF Northern, AF Hudson, and the AF Atlantic > my > brother gave me for Christmas in 1951. All have been converted to DC > can > motors, Digital Command Control, and full sound. They are absolutely > wonderful, and smoke like mad. I also love my SHS SW-9s, which have > such > beautiful detail and run superbly. I have 3 AM GP9s which I have > custom > painted and custom decaled for the Bangor and Aroostook, that has > also been fun. > > My current layout is very much like my original one in 1951: Two > loops > connected with 4 AF switches ion the ping pong table my father built > in > 1937. All my old plasticville is there, along with all the operating > accessories. It is all DCC now, and the AF track has been replaced > with SHS, > but the whole thing is very tinplate and I love it. As does my > granddaughter. > > Off to one side I have built a switching yard with AM 148 track, and > this is > where the SW9s spend most of there time building trains for the > mainline. To > make this better and more realistic most locos and cars (except > passenger) > have been converted to Kadees. This allows realistic coupling and > uncoupling > and also looks much better. > > I'm currently working with some friends to build a large 20x24' > layout with > 240' of mainline all AM 148 track and 40 some-odd handlayed closed > frog > switches (so that we can run both Flyer and "scale" wheelsets). This > layout > will be as realistic as we can make it, but will be designed to > allow > prototypical operation with dispatcher, switch lists, schedules etc > as well > as round and around operation while we talk about the old days. > > All of this has been extreme fun. I'd never want to give up my AF, > but the > addition of prototype operation, DCC, handlaying track, and all the > rest has > turned this into a real passion. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:20:50 -0400 > From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> > Subject: Re: AC vs. DC > > One point that hasn't been made in the ac versus dc debate is that > dc is > quieter. There's virtually no 60-cycle (60 Hz) hum from accessories > or > transformers, etc. Just a small observation. > > -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dan Brindell [mailto:dbrindell@...] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 10:16 PM > > To: fasttrack2000@...; s-trains@onelist.com > > Subject: [S-Trains] AC vs. DC > > > > > > From: Dan Brindell <dbrindell@...> > > > > I just wanted to add my "two cents" worth to the AC vs. DC > question. > > > > Most of the old Flyer trains have "universal" motors, meaning they > run on > > AC or DC. Some people claim they run smoother on DC, but others > dispute > > this. If you are an electronic head and know how to wire up a > bridge > > rectifier to your old Flyer transformer, then try both AC and DC, > and form > > your own opinion. > > > > ALL of the old Flyer transformers (except a few labeled > "rectiformer") > > produce AC only. The reason is, back in the days of vacuum tubes, > it was > > nearly impossible to build a cheap reliable rectifier to convert > AC house > > current to DC. So Gilbert built the trains to run on AC or DC, > > even though > > the "universal" system was more complicated and more expensive to > build; > > they just had to because they didn't have rectifiers. > > > > Cut to the present. Most "modern" trains (HO, N, etc.) are DC, > because > > rectifiers are cheap now (the same reason your computer is cheaper > than it > > was in 1960) and the motors are simple DC can motors. But here's > the > > problem. If you try to run a DC motor on an old Flyer AC > transformer, you > > will probably destroy the motor. In any case, it won't go. > (Actually, it > > will switch between forward and backward 60 times a second as the > > alternating current hits it!) I don't think it will hurt the > > transformer, > > however. > > > > So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a > rectifier > > between your transformer and your track, OR buy a new DC > powerpack. If > > you decide to buy a DC powerpack, make sure it has enough power > > to run your > > S loco, not just a dinky little N loco. Of course, the rectified > current > > (or powerpack current) will run your old trains perfectly well, > because > > they have universal motors. > > > > What to do? Depends on what you want. If you like your old Flyer > trains > > and transformers, stick with AC in your new purchases and keep > your life > > simple. On the other hand, if you believe the "DC is smoother" > club, or > > if you want to run HO or N trains too (horrors!), you could try > DC. But > > anything you save by buying DC engines could be eaten up in > purchases of > > powerpacks, rectifiers, and switchgear. > > > > One thing I would definitely NOT do is stick DC can motors in my > old Flyer > > trains. They run fine on DC, and by changing them you would > > wreck whatever > > value they have to a collector. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Where do some of the Internet's largest email lists reside? > > http://www.onelist.com > > At ONElist - the most scalable and reliable service on the > Internet. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:20:52 -0400 > From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> > Subject: Re: AC vs. DC > > That's exactly what Putt Trains does in its trolleys for AC. The > little > bridge rectifier is mounted near the can motor, along with a > 3-terminal > regulator for constant lighting voltage. However, they run in one > direction > only. I modified mine by removing the bridge and running the can > motor from > dc, and reversing the polarity at the cab (my control console). Now > I can > run 'em forward and reverse. Lotsa fun! > > -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux [mailto:loizeaux@...] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 1999 10:47 PM > > To: Dan Brindell > > Cc: fasttrack2000@...; s-trains@onelist.com > > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] AC vs. DC > > > > > > From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> > > > > Dan Brindell wrote: > > > > > So, if you decide to buy a new DC loco, you must wire up a > rectifier > > > between your transformer and your track, > > > > Methinks there is another alternative worth considering. Why not > > install the bridge rectifier inside the DC locomotive? That way, > the > > transformer could continue to put AC on the track. Those locos > that run > > on AC need no modifications at all. Those locos that you desire > to run > > on DC can do so if they have the rectifier installed in them. > Just be > > careful of the heat. Mount the rectifier on a metal plate and > keep it > > away from plastic. Best to do some careful testing first. Anyone > > actually try this? I haven't, but in theory at least, it otter > work. > > > > "S"incerely, > > > > Ed Loizeaux > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ONElist: the best source for group communications. > > http://www.onelist.com > > Join a new list today! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:27:07 -0400 > From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> > Subject: Re: hi-rail vs scale > > It's interesting to read about your work Bill. Just how does one go > about > converting an AF motor to a can motor? Has anything been written > about this > I can refer to? Where would a novice start? > > -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bill Clark [mailto:clark@...] > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 9:11 AM > > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > > Cc: a1dude@...; Tom.Robichaud@...; > Helen.Lenart@...; > > helen@...; Mike > > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] hi-rail vs scale > > > > > > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > > > > At 03:03 AM 05/20/1999 -0700, you wrote: > > >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > > > > >I hope this hasn't been beat to death here before, but > > >I wonder: What do others on this list have to say > > >about their preference for hi-rail or scale modeling? > > >In particular, what do you gain--and sacrifice--with > > >each system? > > > > > > > I run a combination of American Flyer and new stuff. I guess I am > moving > > more towards a realistic operation, and away from tinplate. I > > still love the > > operating accessories (saw mill, Barrel loader!) but mostly now to > show to > > others. For my own operation I'm moving toward having everything > > as close to > > the same scale as possible, slow realistic switching operations, > > and the like. > > > > My favorite locos are my AF Northern, AF Hudson, and the AF > Atlantic my > > brother gave me for Christmas in 1951. All have been converted to > DC can > > motors, Digital Command Control, and full sound. They are > absolutely > > wonderful, and smoke like mad. I also love my SHS SW-9s, which > have such > > beautiful detail and run superbly. I have 3 AM GP9s which I have > custom > > painted and custom decaled for the Bangor and Aroostook, that has > > also been fun. > > > > My current layout is very much like my original one in 1951: Two > loops > > connected with 4 AF switches ion the ping pong table my father > built in > > 1937. All my old plasticville is there, along with all the > operating > > accessories. It is all DCC now, and the AF track has been > > replaced with SHS, > > but the whole thing is very tinplate and I love it. As does my > > granddaughter. > > > > Off to one side I have built a switching yard with AM 148 track, > > and this is > > where the SW9s spend most of there time building trains for the > > mainline. To > > make this better and more realistic most locos and cars (except > passenger) > > have been converted to Kadees. This allows realistic coupling and > > uncoupling > > and also looks much better. > > > > I'm currently working with some friends to build a large 20x24' > > layout with > > 240' of mainline all AM 148 track and 40 some-odd handlayed closed > frog > > switches (so that we can run both Flyer and "scale" wheelsets). > > This layout > > will be as realistic as we can make it, but will be designed to > allow > > prototypical operation with dispatcher, switch lists, schedules > > etc as well > > as round and around operation while we talk about the old days. > > > > All of this has been extreme fun. I'd never want to give up my AF, > but the > > addition of prototype operation, DCC, handlaying track, and all > > the rest has > > turned this into a real passion. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? > > http://www.onelist.com > > More than 1,000! Create yours now! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:31:58 EDT > From: TPDavis7@... > Subject: Re: Whistel Controller > > A Model Rectifier Corp. model #2400 or 2500 will work great! Tom > Davis, > Charlotte, N.C. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 10 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 09:39:17 -0400 > From: "Richard L. Kroll" <rkroll@...> > Subject: Large Scale Train Show > > Friends: > The June issue of Garden Railways has an ad for the 2nd East > Coast > Large Scale Train Show - limited to G, O and S - on Aug.28-29, at > the > Garden State Exhibit Center, Somerset N.J. (which exit?) - the new > exit > 10 on I287. It's right off the exit. Get a new map - the exit was > renumbered about two years ago, was 5 or 6. > Double Tree in rate is $69. For info. 718-788-0516. > > I have no personal involvement in this, just thought some folks > might like to know. I didn't know about last year's first show, > have no > idea how much S there might be. Did anyone go? > > Dick K. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 10:22:22 EDT > From: Toyguy5344@... > Subject: scale vs. hi-rail > > This debate of AC/DC, scale/hi-rail is starting to sound like a > "keeping up > with the Jones' " or (HORRORS!!!) a " PC " issue. We are talking > about 40 and > 50 year old , collectable toy trains and their relative > merits/drawbacks to > current production, scale > (or near-scale: flying modelers have a category called stand-off > scale) > equipment. Did > anybody say "apples and oranges?" As to putting a can motor in a > Gilbert > prime mov- > er to "improve" it, what do you think of putting a Chevy small block > into a > Duesenberg SJ ? If it aint broke, don't fix it!! My tinplate has > it's place, > my scale stuff has it's place. Running a 20's Flyer 3100 on the same > layout > as a Gilbert Flyer 326 > gives one some perspective on how things changed in the timeline of > the 1st > 1/2 of the century vis-a-vis toy trains. In reality land, the P5 > outlived the > Hudson on the rails! > The pleasure of owning and operating toy trains-of any gauge, era, > or > manufacturer is not diminished nor enhanced by adhering to anyone's > set of > rules. I know people whose layouts run on schedules, have > destinations and > purposes for train A to go tto point Z whilst train B awaits the > load of > barrels at factory L to be invoiced.And that's ok with me. My > layout, with > it's people interspersed with rabbits , farms that breed dinosaurs, > and a > Guilford station that has cows leave the platform while, across > town, men in > gray flannel pace the stockyard waiting for the MOPAC to Darien, > does raise > some eyebrows. and that's ok, too. > Keeping the equipment original, maintained, and "doing it's thing" > (providing > FUN!) > is my priority.I'm comitted to electric trains, the fun and Peter > Pan > principle thereof, > and what current production items I have, are all AC > compatible.Modern stuff > should be adapted to run in the classic arena, not the other way > around.-john > marganski > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 11:20:51 -0400 > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > Subject: Re: scale vs. hi-rail > > At 10:22 AM 05/20/1999 EDT, you wrote: > >From: Toyguy5344@... > > > >This debate of AC/DC, scale/hi-rail is starting to sound like a > "keeping up > >with the Jones' " or (HORRORS!!!) a " PC " issue. We are talking > about 40 and > > No debate here! Someone asked about comparisons of AC and DC, which > to me is > a very reasonable question. Then a question was asked about scale vs > hirail, > pros and cons, mixing etc. Again to me a very valid question, with > an > infinite number of valid answers. Since I love to read and write > about S > gauge trains, I decided to enter my feelings, and am looking forward > to as > many as possible other views. To me, all this is positive and fun, > with no > question of a debate or right or wrong. > > Thanks! > Bill > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 13 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:52:40 -0400 > From: "jdoran" <jdoran@...> > Subject: third rail, 785 footprint, York dates and success > > In order, there was an article in S-gaugian (don't have date yet) > about howw to build these, I'll see if I can dig out the issue date tonight. > The 785 footprint is 5"x5" but don't forget the boom for the bucket is > another 4" on that side. York is October 15-16 (Fri-Sat). The > non-afilliated meets run all week. > > The auto switch circuit works! Connect both base posts on the > switches to the transformer base post. THe power side of the transformer > goes thru trip (697) to either the appropriate post ofnthe switches anf you > need a jumper to the straight section between the switches. OK that's not > clear. I'll figure out what I'm trying to say and repost tonight with a > diagram. > > End of lunch hour, back to work. > > Doc > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 14 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 14:57:24 -0400 > From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > Subject: Re: scale vs. hi-rail > > Toyguy5344@... wrote: > > > and what current production items I have, are all AC > compatible.Modern stuff > > should be adapted to run in the classic arena, not the other way > around.-john > > marganski > -- > I was with you right up to the above "rule"! Whatever anyone does > is OK > with me as long as it doesn't force me to go along, and I can enjoy > my > trains my way. > > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 15 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 12:25:15 -0700 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > Subject: Doin' S YOUR way! WAS: scale vs. hi-rail > > I like Bill Clark's idea, so I'm proposing a change for the subject > heading > that avoids an "Us vs them" possible connotation. I know how I > prefer my S, > but I enjoy hearing all the other ways that people enjoy it. I once > read a > Model Railroad Introductory guide that stated the modelers advance > from toy > trains to scale models. Hurmph! They may change from one to another, > but I > wouldn't say it's an advancement, either is a legitimate variation > of the > train hobby! > So, how do I like my S?? Well, so far I only have temporary layouts, > but I > run for fun, sometimes my AF is modified, so it looks different > (Usually > done to basket cases, or wrecks!), and I enjoy the challenge of a > properly > sequencing reverse unit! I'm also annoyed at switches that seem to > cause > random halts of train movements, but that's just part of what you > get with > old AC trains. I would like to someday build a permanent layout, > with > scenery and a level of realism that matches the trains. Some claim > that they > were built to run on the floor--well, yes, the engineering did allow > that, > but all the AF books show layouts, wonderful worlds you built with > your > parents or grandparents and siblings! So I believe both types of > operation > are valid for Flyer! > I have also built an S sized trolley that runs on HO track (3-1/2' > or close > in S), haven't run it for years, but it did grace the center of a > display > layout on year, so I'm "guilty" of scratchbuilding too! > yes, DC does seem to run smoother (I bought some engines > recently that > had been converted w/ rectifiers) but I have far too much equipment > on hand > to make the conversion--at least that's my story for now! I do sneak > in > rectifiers on my action cabooses and such to keep the humming down! > That being said, I will also admit that I am impressed by > various scale > members' work, and am always interested in what others do in S and > promoting > S as I think it's the best scale overall. > So, how do YOU do S?? > S' > David D. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 16 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:01:08 -0700 > From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...> > Subject: Streetlights > > See http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?59960 > (a larger photo is at http://holidaytree.com/59960.html) > > and http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?52627 > > These lights look nice and they actually light. Amazingly the resin > unlighted ones (the "streetlights named bizzare") cost over twice as much. > > Go figure. > > Also check out the vehicles at > http://www.christmasmouse.com/56svacat.htm (especially the 1955 Fords). If > they're the right size for snow villages, they're probably close to S Scale. > > P.S. I want to thank those of you who emailed me the info re the > Schwans offer. > > Monty > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 17 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 13:39:04 -0700 > From: "Tomlinson, John D" <John.Tomlinson@...> > Subject: Re: Streetlights > > I though everyone knew why the resin unlighted ones were twice as > costly -- ITS BECAUSE THEY RESINATE (sic)....;) > > ....... sorry, it's been a long morning --- too long > > I did appreciate the URL about the Dept56 lights. I have often > looked at them and wondered how they would work on the layout. > > John D. Tomlinson > > Configuration Mgmt Deployment - CA-Endevor Support > > 6-6M67 M/S: 6F-62 Bldg: 7-311.3 > > Ph: (425) 477-4589 Pgr: (206) 986-5329 Hotline: (206) 655-HELP > > Boeing Web page: http://www-ads.ca.boeing.com/cmd > > > > > > ---------- > > From: L Montgomery[SMTP:lmontgo@...] > > Sent: Thursday, May 20, 1999 1:01 PM > > To: S-Trains > > Subject: [S-Trains] Streetlights > > > > From: "L Montgomery" <lmontgo@...> > > > > See http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?59960 > > (a larger photo is at http://holidaytree.com/59960.html) > > > > and http://christmasdepot.com/prod.cgi?52627 > > > > These lights look nice and they actually light. Amazingly the > resin unlighted ones (the "streetlights named bizzare") cost over twice as > much. > > > > Go figure. > > > > Also check out the vehicles at > http://www.christmasmouse.com/56svacat.htm (especially the 1955 Fords). If > they're the right size for snow villages, they're probably close to S Scale. > > > > P.S. I want to thank those of you who emailed me the info re the > Schwans offer. > > > > Monty > > > > > > > > -----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- > > http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? > > http://www.onelist.com > > More than 1,000! Create yours now! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 18 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 19:27:13 -0400 > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > Subject: Scale and Tin Plate > > Hi Ya'll, > > Here is 2 more cents. My interest is scale. That means my layout > (under construction) will feature things that look a lot like real things > that are just small. But, I live near some Flyer collectors and I enjoy that > old stuff too. So, I'm considering making my mainline loop out of American > Models code 148 flex track. It means I'll have to hand lay three turnouts > and add a few electrical switches and then I'll be able to send some vintage > Flyer things on a tour of the scale layout scenery. I even bought a 30B to > power them when it is their turn to run. > > Great ZOT itS, > Bill Porter > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > Message: 19 > Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 23:33:56 -0400 > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > Subject: Re: Large Scale Train Show > > Dear Richard, > S Helper Service will have a booth at the East Coast Large > Scale Train > Show. We only live a few miles from the show hall and the people > putting the show on are dear friends (S owes them a lot, as they > introduced us to our builers who now makes some of the models for > American Models, S Scale American (DesPlaines), PBL. American Flyer > (yes, the hated "L" company), etc.). If anyone is in the area, > please > drop by. When we find out our booth number, I will let everyone > know. > They are now looking for an S layout (either portable or > module) to > display at this show, if you know someone who is interested, please > let > us know and we will pass this information on. > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ____________________________________________________________________________ > ___ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? > http://www.onelist.com > More than 1,000! Create yours now! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3137	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train

Well, You can go one farther and build an S gauge live steam locomotive!! And YES, it can add to your hobby experience. Of course, it could leave authentic deposits along your right-of-way. And some of you thought smoke fluid was bad!!! Now let's see, build a live steam model of an electric generating plant, use the plant's output to run the trains..... S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3138	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Closed Frog Switches

That article failed to mention a fix we did in our club installation of several of these switches. We relocated the pivot hole so both ends of the frog had equal throw. Works fine when throw comes out uneven so either frog or point end didn't close well. Much easier than respacing and resoldering point or frog enf spacing. Lee Johnson wrote: > > From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) > > For those interested in using the BK Enterprises closed frog turnouts, ther > is a good 2-1/2 page article on installing and fine tuning these turnouts > in the February 1999 issue of the NASG Dispatch. > > Lee Johnson > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ONElist members are using Shared Files in great ways! > http://www.onelist.com > Are you? If not, see our homepage for details. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3139	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Re: Penn Central

>Does anyone know if anyone made or is going to make a Penn Central >Diesel... > > Dave Dalessandro I don't know, but Don DeWitt ("S-Designs") has Penn Central locomotive decals available. The group may not know that Don also has lettering for an Englehard ACF center-flow car, which would make an excellent companion piece to the AM Engelhard tank cars. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3140	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Does your RR need a Laser Car?

>From Machine Design, April 22 1999 Railroad companies calculate that they lose more than $55 million annually in fuel costs and damage because of friction between railroad wheels and the sides of the rails. Friction also leads to derailed trains and potential loss of life. Research at Argonne National Laboratory shows that laser glazing would significantly reduce the friction between the rails and train wheels. (I presume this is especially regarding friction on curves! - TL) The process uses lasers to melt a thin layer of metal on the rail. When it solidifies, the metal forms a hard, glassy surface that is elastic enough to distribute loads evenly to the underlayer. Unlike traditional lubricants such as oil and grease, laser glazing doesn't wash off in the rain, cause environmental problems, or migrate to the top of the rail where it could cause loss of traction for the train. Glazing is also durable and can be applied to rails during fabrication or when they're in service. Durability tests show the process can reduce the rail's coefficient of friction by 40% and cut rail damage by 75%. Argonne researchers expect the process will be used on other steel surfaces, such as bearings and gears, where lower friction and wear are important factors. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3141	From: david s garber	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: 761 screw#

AF # S283 It is a 4-40x1/8th shouldered screw Dave Garber

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3142	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/21/1999
Subject: Live Steam Model Running With Train

Llive steam in S is not out of the question. It has been done, and without using a fire at that. Henry Sprague ran his S scale live steam locomotives on the West Bay club in Menlo Park, CA. Henry is now deceased. He had a nichrome wire in the boiler, and varied the voltage to the nichrome wire to make steam or not make steam which in turn would increase the loco speed or decrease the speed. He had screw motor drive in the tender that as track polarity reversed, the screw motor would operate and through linkage to the locomotive would operate the valve gear of the locomotive to change direction of the locomotive. The only water capacity was in the boiler. It was a marvel to watch the locomotive in action. Then to really blow your mind, Henry would park the locmotive next to a water column, unscrew the top of the sand dome, move the spout of the water column over the open top of the sand dome, and proceed to fill the locomotive boiler with water coming from the scale water column. It was a sight you never forget. Or if that is too much trouble, you could make a dry ice propelled locomotive as was done in O scale in the early '50's. This was basically the same as a live steam loco, except the tank for the dry ice was in the tender, and the amount of gas produced by the dry ice going to the cylinders was regulated by a valve operated by a small 12v DC motor in the cab, and the motor was operated by track voltage. Ingenious people these model railroaders. Where there is a will there is a way. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3143	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train

> > From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) > big clip > > Or if that is too much trouble, you could make a dry ice propelled > locomotive as was done in O scale in the early '50's. This was basically > the same as a live steam loco, except the tank for the dry ice was in the > tender, and the amount of gas produced by the dry ice going to the > cylinders was regulated by a valve operated by a small 12v DC motor in the > cab, and the motor was operated by track voltage. I remember the article on this. I thought it would catch on and be a popular way to run trains - it never did. I read somewhere much after the article that the dry CO2 from the "ice" dried out the cylinder walls and led to problems that interfered with running. Anybody know what the reality is? Art Armstrong

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3144	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train

You need lube oil. Even steam will cause trouble Larry Arthur Armstrong wrote: > From: Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> > > > > > From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) > > > big clip > > > > Or if that is too much trouble, you could make a dry ice propelled > > locomotive as was done in O scale in the early '50's. This was basically > > the same as a live steam loco, except the tank for the dry ice was in the > > tender, and the amount of gas produced by the dry ice going to the > > cylinders was regulated by a valve operated by a small 12v DC motor in the > > cab, and the motor was operated by track voltage. > > I remember the article on this. I thought it would catch on and be a > popular way to run trains - it never did. > > I read somewhere much after the article that the dry CO2 from the "ice" > dried out the cylinder walls and led to problems that interfered with > running. Anybody know what the reality is? > > Art Armstrong > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Campaign 2000 is here! > http://www.onelist.com > Discuss your thoughts; get informed at ONElist. See our homepage. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3145	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: B&O Royal Blue Drawings

For drawings of the B&O's Royal Blue cars (as well as other B&O drawings), try: B&O RR Historical Society PO Box 24068 Baltimore, MD 21227-0568 They, and othr railroad historical groups, often have just what we're looking for. Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3146	From: COALDRAG@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Take off List

Remove me from List Thank You

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3147	From: Joe Visintine	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: 334DC whistle

OK I'm going to try this one more time. I want to get the whistle working on my 334DC but I have no controller. I figure since the locomotive runs on DC the whistle must have some type of AC signal imposed on (or over) the DC voltage going over the track. I am using a MRC Control Master 20 with a 20VDC and 85VA output which is more than enough power for my needs as I can run only one train at a time. Does anyone out there is S land know the specs on the type of signal the whistle needs to operate. What else could there be to it than finding the right voltage and hertz? This would be a good addition to Mr. Yorks FAQ page. Thanks all Joe Visintine Joe Visintine Salinas Ca. (831)633-3066 h2oman@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3148	From: Joe Visintine	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: 334DC whistle

Yeah it's me again One more question / thought when the whistle changes pitch by adjusting a pot are you changing the voltage or the varing the frequency? Joe Visintine Joe Visintine Salinas Ca. (831)633-3066 h2oman@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3149	From: Dale F. Smith	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: 334DC whistle

According to the Greenberg guide, the 334DC was made in 1950 and came with the "Electronic Whistle". Later models came with an "Air Chime Whistle." From what I have been able to determine these two are basically the same in the engine, the main difference being the controller used to activate them. In the engine is a small speaker wired to the rails through a capacitor/resistor wired in parallel. The capacitor was used to tune the circuit to enhance the 600 hz signal from the whistle generator and the resistor was used to enhance the volume going to the speaker. Some of these resistors have been known to melt plastic bodies, and many suggest removing them for that reason, but this won't be a problem for you. Now to the controllers. Your locomotive came with an "electronic whistle controller box" which plugged into the 110 volt line. It was a complex electronic circuit that generated the 600 cycle tone and sent it to the rails. I believe that was only made in 1950 and I have seen it only once at a train show, (and I bought it). I have not yet determined if it works or not, as it needs a complete overhaul and safety check, including new line cord. The whistle is used on the Boys Railroad Club Videos and if that is any indication, it doesn't sound that great. In subsequent years, the "Air Chime Whistle Controller" used an automobile type vibrator to generate the signal and was either the number 710, which varied the pitch of the output, meaning the frequency, or a simple button that sent 600 hz to the speaker with no variation in pitch. The 710 is also hard to find. Barker says there were 3 buttons, of which the 710 was one, but doesn't say anything about the other two. The other two can usually be found at train shows fairly easily and for under $20. As far as the wiring for DC, you can find the diagram in Jeff Faust's book American Flyer Track Plans and Operating Instructions, a $9.95 book. Also Thomas Barkers American Flyer S Gauge Repair and Operating Manual, which I think is still around $15 has a complete circuit diagram for the electronic controller from 1950. One thing that Faust shows is a capacitor across the track terminals, to kill any possible 60 hz hum. This whistle should work better on DC than AC, as the big problem was separating the whistle sound from the power voltage to the rails. That is a lot easier where the power is DC. I have often thought that a better sound could be achieved using a modern oscillator or recorded whistle sounds with a varied capacitor size. Using DC might make this easier. If you have any other questions or would like a drawn out wiring diagram, send me an email off the list. -- Dale Smith Pacifica, California Joe Visintine wrote: > From: "Joe Visintine" <h2oman@...> > > OK I'm going to try this one more time. > I want to get the whistle working on my 334DC > but I have no controller. I figure since the > locomotive runs on DC the whistle must have > some type of AC signal imposed on (or over) the > DC voltage going over the track. I am using a > MRC Control Master 20 with a 20VDC and 85VA > output which is more than enough power for my > needs as I can run only one train at a time. > Does anyone out there is S land know the specs > on the type of signal the whistle needs to > operate. What else could there be to it than > finding the right voltage and hertz? This would > be a good addition to Mr. Yorks FAQ page. > > Thanks all > > Joe Visintine > > > Joe Visintine > Salinas Ca. > (831)633-3066 > h2oman@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend? > http://www.onelist.com > Come join one of the nearly 150,000 e-mail communities at ONElist! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3150	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Sunset Models Pioneer Zephyr and Flying Yankee

Does anyone have any info on Sunset Models new S gauge trains. Has anyone gotten one of these yet, and if so, how do you like it? I saw the ad in Classic Toy Trains. If the price includes an engine, I might think about it. The ad has confused me as it says full scale size 3 car trains. I don't see any mention of an engine. Also I've never heard of this company, so would like to hear opinions about their products. Also, to change the subject, is Lionel planning to ever do anything again with S gauge. If not, they should let another company produce whatever their production rights are to. Thanks for any info, Mike S. Tujunga, California

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3151	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train

> Wasn't there a Live Steam Shay in S scale at an NASG convention some years > ago?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3152	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train

Henry Sprague represents at least a second go at live steam--the shay owner was Reg Bilodeaux or something like that. Lee Johnson wrote: > From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) > > Llive steam in S is not out of the question. It has been done, and without > using a fire at that. Henry Sprague ran his S scale live steam locomotives > on the West Bay club in Menlo Park, CA. Henry is now deceased. He had a > nichrome wire in the boiler, and varied the voltage to the nichrome wire to > make steam or not make steam which in turn would increase the loco speed or > decrease the speed. He had screw motor drive in the tender that as track > polarity reversed, the screw motor would operate and through linkage to the > locomotive would operate the valve gear of the locomotive to change > direction of the locomotive. The only water capacity was in the boiler. > It was a marvel to watch the locomotive in action. > > Then to really blow your mind, Henry would park the locmotive next to a > water column, unscrew the top of the sand dome, move the spout of the water > column over the open top of the sand dome, and proceed to fill the > locomotive boiler with water coming from the scale water column. It was a > sight you never forget. > > Or if that is too much trouble, you could make a dry ice propelled > locomotive as was done in O scale in the early '50's. This was basically > the same as a live steam loco, except the tank for the dry ice was in the > tender, and the amount of gas produced by the dry ice going to the > cylinders was regulated by a valve operated by a small 12v DC motor in the > cab, and the motor was operated by track voltage. > > Ingenious people these model railroaders. Where there is a will there is a way. > > Lee > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? > http://www.onelist.com > More than 1,000! Create yours now! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3153	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Sunset Models Pioneer Zephyr and Flying Yankee

Anormal1@... wrote: > The ad has confused me as it says full scale size 3 car trains. I > don't see > any mention of an engine. The prototype trains consisted of three passenger-type cars with the front one powered. It looked more like a passenger car than a locomotive, but it was powered and had an engineer. Look carefully at a picture and you'll see that the front looks somewhat like a diesel cab -- only different, maybe more like a streamlined RDC cab -- sort of. It is probably safe to assume the Sunset models will have one powered unit and two unpowered cars -- although I do not know this for a fact. Best to check directly with Sunset. > Also I've never heard of this company, so would > like to hear opinions about their products. Sunset Models has been around for over 20 years in the brass importing business. In recent years, they have imported O gauge models in both 2-rail (scale) and 3-rail (semi-scale or tinscale) versions. Years ago they made an S scale Big Boy, Challenger, and Geeps. Regarding the quality of their products, my experiences have been all over the map. Seems like each project is new and unique. The purist rivet counter can always find fault with anything. The toy train enthusiast can be happy with most anything. Your happiness with Sunset's products might depend on where your personal expectations are on the authenticity gradient. H-m-m-m...doesn't tell you much does it? > Also, to change the subject, is Lionel planning to ever do anything > again > with S gauge. If not, they should let another company produce > whatever their > production rights are to. Why don't you call them up and ask them and then let us all know. "S"incerely, Ed Loizeaux

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3154	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: 334DC Whistle

I have seen five horn/whistle controllers made by Glibert: Besides the Electronic Whistle Control Box, which plugs into the 120v. house current, and the 710, which has a slide switch that varies the pitch, there were the air chime whistle controller which usually had a metal tube, the diesel horn control with a cardboard tube but internally the same as the air chime, and the steam whistle control, which has an extra tongue on the oscillator to produce a complex sound. I know that all of them can be used with DC track power except the 710. I assume that the 710 can also be used with DC track power but am not about to risk mine to find out. Gilbert issued one instruction sheet for using the Electronic Whistle Control with DC, and another for using the air chime whistle with DC. The air chime whistle control, steam whistle control, and diesel horn control, are interchangeable. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3155	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train

As I recall, the extremely low termperature of the CO2 caused moisture to condense out of the air as ice, jamming (freezing up) the moving parts. Dick Karnes Arthur Armstrong wrote: > > > From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) > > > > Or if that is too much trouble, you could make a dry ice propelled > > locomotive as was done in O scale in the early '50's. This was basically > > the same as a live steam loco, except the tank for the dry ice was in the > > tender, and the amount of gas produced by the dry ice going to the > > cylinders was regulated by a valve operated by a small 12v DC motor in the > > cab, and the motor was operated by track voltage. > > I read somewhere much after the article that the dry CO2 from the "ice" > dried out the cylinder walls and led to problems that interfered with > running. Anybody know what the reality is? > > Art Armstrong >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3156	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Sunset Models Pioneer Zephyr and Flying Yankee

Mike S. wrote: > Does anyone have any info on Sunset Models new S gauge trains. Has anyone > gotten one of these yet, and if so, how do you like it? I saw the ad in > Classic Toy Trains. If the price includes an engine, I might think about it. > The ad has confused me as it says full scale size 3 car trains. I don't see > any mention of an engine. Also I've never heard of this company, so would > like to hear opinions about their products. The three-car train is the first Burlington Zephyr (CB&Q), which was the first streamlined train (1934) to see service in the USA. The three cars included the power car ("engine"), a second car which, I believe, was a lounge or coach, and a coach/observation car. The three are articulated; i.e., there was a truck under wach vestibule, shared by the two cars that attached to it. The set will also be available in Boston & Main "Flying Yankee" livery. Sunset is a brass importer. At one time they imported S scale GP7 and GP9 locomotives. Their dominant business is HO brass imports. These days their "3rd Rail" department also does a thriving business importing O scale 3-rail (and 2-rail) brass locomotives. The Zephyr is their first entry into S since the geeps. They are also offering an S scale 2-8-2. Their website is: www.3rdrail.com The price includes all three units. According to the Sunset/3rd Rail website, the train will be delivered in late 1999. Advance reservation is required. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3157	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train

At 4:56 PM 5/22/99, Dave and Kathy Engle wrote: >Henry Sprague represents at least a second go at live steam--the shay >owner was Reg >Bilodeaux or something like that. > The shay Reg Bilodeau built (he built 2 the same) made its first appearance at the NASG 1974 Convention, and it was powered by an electric motor--not steam. I saw both of the shays operating on his layout during the NASG 1976 Convention in Ottawa. Reg probaly completed building these shays in 1973 or 1974. I remember seeing Henry Sprague's climax operate in 1973. Besides the climax, he had a 2-8-2 and a 4-6-2 of which the latter was letterd for Soo Lines. I know both the climax and the 4-6-2 were completed in 1972 or earlier. He was working on the 2-8-2 when I visited him in 1973. Lee >Lee Johnson wrote: > >> From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) >> >> Llive steam in S is not out of the question. It has been done, and without >> using a fire at that. Henry Sprague ran his S scale live steam locomotives >> on the West Bay club in Menlo Park, CA. Henry is now deceased. He had a >> nichrome wire in the boiler, and varied the voltage to the nichrome wire to >> make steam or not make steam which in turn would increase the loco speed or >> decrease the speed. He had screw motor drive in the tender that as track >> polarity reversed, the screw motor would operate and through linkage to the >> locomotive would operate the valve gear of the locomotive to change >> direction of the locomotive. The only water capacity was in the boiler. >> It was a marvel to watch the locomotive in action. >> >> Then to really blow your mind, Henry would park the locmotive next to a >> water column, unscrew the top of the sand dome, move the spout of the water >> column over the open top of the sand dome, and proceed to fill the >> locomotive boiler with water coming from the scale water column. It was a >> sight you never forget. >> >> Or if that is too much trouble, you could make a dry ice propelled >> locomotive as was done in O scale in the early '50's. This was basically >> the same as a live steam loco, except the tank for the dry ice was in the >> tender, and the amount of gas produced by the dry ice going to the >> cylinders was regulated by a valve operated by a small 12v DC motor in the >> cab, and the motor was operated by track voltage. >> >> Ingenious people these model railroaders. Where there is a will there >>is a way. >> >> Lee >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? >> http://www.onelist.com >> More than 1,000! Create yours now! >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >> List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3158	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Answer the questions or we're going to have to gag you

To paraphrase the border crossing scene from the film *The Magic Christian,* (in a mock German accent) "some questions, pleaz!" 1) During a visit a S-scale layout in San Francisco on Saturday afternoon I spotted an American Models FA cab and booster in--egads!--Lehigh Valley paint (pretty prototypical, too!). I ddidn't see LV offered on AM's website, which leads me to wonder: What paint schemes have they offered in the past? Do they simply offer a different array of paint schemes every few years? And is there a catalog or listing of the previous schemes? 2) Does anyone have an experience buying AM and S-Helper equipment from mail-order stores (preferably those that take charge cards)? 3) Say it ain't so, Joe: Does Overland Models no longer offer S-scale models? Are we deprived of cool S-scale brass such as the Overland brass diesel faciltiy on sale at Franciscan Hobbies in San Francisco (for anyone's who interested, e-mail me and I'll pass along their phone number). Also for sale: A brass Rio Grande Geep with dynamic brakes (gee, it looks like the American Models Geep!) Don't mind me, I'm having a helluva good time exploring the S hobby! Paul Schneider San Francisco, CA _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3159	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Re: Answer the questions or we're going to have to gag you

Dear Paul, 1. The FA was the first joint venture of SHS and AM. The deal was that SHS agreed to purchase 500 A-B sets and paid for (not all at once, but on a achedule). This allowed AM to work on a project without worring about funding (I think that is why the GP-9 took so long to be completed). In exchange, SHS was able to pick the roadnames that would they thought would sell the best, half of these would be exclusives (only available from SHS). We supplied all of the artwork and we did the marketing (advertising, press releases, trade shows, etc.). A minimum of 40 A-B sets was agreed upon (twenty of each number so that a person could make a A-B-B-A with all different numbers. Eleven roadnames (* were exclusives) were chosen: B&O*, CNW*, CP, GN, LV*, MP*, NH, NYC, PRR, UP and WM(A units only)*. The B&O was the most popular roadname followed by the MP. 2. Both AM and SHS sell direct via mail order and take credit cars. I know that most of our hobby shops also sell by mail order and accept credit cards and I assume AMs do too. 3. For the last decade, almost all of the S Scale brass that Overland Models has produced has been made exclusively for River Raisin Models. The last items they made for themselves were the SD-50s & 60s and a neat little bridge crame. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3160	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Re: Answer the questions or we're going to have to gag you

Hi Paul, -----Original Message----- From: Paul D. Schneider <fasttrack2000@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Sunday, May 23, 1999 3:46 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Answer the questions or we're going to have to gag you >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > >> >1) I spotted an American Models FA cab >and booster in--egads!--Lehigh Valley paint (pretty >prototypical, too!). I ddidn't see LV offered on AM's >website, which leads me to wonder: What paint schemes >have they offered in the past? Do they simply offer a >different array of paint schemes every few years? And >is there a catalog or listing of the previous schemes? The LV FA- FB's you saw were, I believe, done by the good folks of pre, or early SHS days together with AM. I think they also did a RIO-GRANDE sceme about the same time. Yes, AM will at times offer new schemes on exsisting equipment after repeated requests for the same road name or at their choosing. Catalogs? I don't think so except to find advertisements in back issues of S magazines. > >2) Does anyone have an experience buying AM and >S-Helper equipment from mail-order stores (preferably >those that take charge cards)? Sure, I experienced no problem there. > >3) Say it ain't so, Joe: Does Overland Models no >longer offer S-scale models? Are we deprived of cool >S-scale brass such as the Overland brass diesel >faciltiy on sale at Franciscan Hobbies in San >Francisco (for anyone's who interested, e-mail me and >I'll pass along their phone number). Also for sale: A >brass Rio Grande Geep with dynamic brakes (gee, it >looks like the American Models Geep!) S scale from OMI !!! Wow, now that's a tough one! Who the h___ knows!!! They did some fine (modern) stuff for uS over the years but ??????????????????????!!!!!! Dave Bailey, MPSG Advocate No one is listening...until you make a mistake > >Don't mind me, I'm having a helluva good time >exploring the S hobby! > >Paul Schneider >San Francisco, CA > > > >_____________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Are you hogging all the fun? >http://www.onelist.com >Friends tell friends about ONElist! >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3161	From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: AF by Lionel

In response to Ed and any new Flyer, I e-mailed Lionel last week regarding their plans for Flyer and they responded that new Flyer "should" be in the next catalog. I e-mailed back and asked when the next catalog will be out and they said this summer. It's like dealing with kids, nothing volunteered. I didn't bother asking what might be offered. If you read the Charles Ro ads, you will believe there will be some stuff offered this year. Ron Kemp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3162	From: PatnDave	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: S-DesignS

Hi Stan, Does Don "S-DesignS" DeWitt :>), have an E address that he might use for SDS? Dave Bailey, MPSG Advocate No one is listening...until you make a mistake

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3163	From: Gerbasi	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Lionel AF and Scale vs. Hi Rail

1. I sent off an "angry e-mail" to "L" a week ago bemoaning the lack of AF, and they replied that there would be "some AF in the next catalog". I am hearing rumors about what that AF might be, and I don't think anything I've heard is reliable. I'll keep my ear to the ground and report if I get something worth sharing. 2. re:Scale vs. Hi Rail. I really built up my railroad when there wasn't much scale except the Rex engines and repainted Flyer (after Kinsman died and before AM started up), so I built it out of Flyer and scratchbuilt cars made from plans from Model Railroader from the 50's. My first efforts were pretty pathetic, but they got better as time went by. It really is too built up to start over, so I have a Flyer layout on Gargraves track that operates on a schedule.I deliver cars to industries, run a high percentage of scratchbuilt and adapted scale cars and engines, and have a primitive form of walk around control ( my transformers and mainline control panel are on a wheeled "tea cart" that I can push around to follow the trains). I guess my layout is "Hi Rail" but it really is compatible with what a "scale" HO layout was in the 1950's when many ran them with oversized "megow" couplers. I'd rather concentrate on running and operating trains and scenery than on trackwork. If HO can handle the "train set" HO people with talgo trucks and sectional track, and the "serious" modeless with hand laid track with superelevated curves and body mounted Kadees, then we can too. As someone who has converted a lot of scale to Hi Rail (remember when AM first came out, they were only available with scale wheels), I must honestly say that, in terms of getting product on the market for ALL of us, there are a higher percentage of scale people able to convert a "tinplate" car to scale than there are tinplate people able to convert a scale car to "tinplate" compatible. Also, Hi Railers tend to buy more equipment. So as long as SHS and AM make cars that all you need to do is change the wheels and add Kadees to have a scale car, we all get more product, we all RUN more product and the scale gets more visibility. I don't think most of the Hi Rail people I know would have become S scalers if that was their only option. I suspect they would have become N scalers Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3164	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Re: AM/SHS

In a message dated 5/23/99 4:18:50 AM, you wrote: <<Does anyone have an experience buying AM and S-Helper equipment from mail-order stores (preferably those that take charge cards)?>> We carry both, with free shipping (only on AM and SHS orders > $50), no sales-taxes, and no extra credit-card fees. Doug We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 66-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 48 page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3165	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Re: S-DesignS

Dear Dave, Don DeWitt of S Designs e-mail address is: dondew@... PatnDave wrote: > > From: "PatnDave" <patndave@...> > > Hi Stan, > Does Don "S-DesignS" DeWitt :>), have an E address that he might use for > SDS? > > Dave Bailey, MPSG Advocate > > No one is listening...until you make a mistake > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Are you hogging all the fun? > http://www.onelist.com > Friends tell friends about ONElist! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3166	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Zephyr

Model Railroader ran a nice article on the Zephyr in their January 1999 issue. That is the issue that has the article on Dave Jasper's S layout, which of course is the highlight of the magazine. Ken Z.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3167	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Decal Source

Hi everyone, I have a fellow who called me on the phone this week, an O gauger (forgive him), who is looking to have some custom decals made. I believe I saw on the newslist in the last couple of weeks someone mention the name of the company that does custom decals. It possibly was the one that Russ Downs uses. Could someone give me some information that I can pass on to this fellow? Also, I believe there is a vendor at York that does custom decal work, something like Underground Railroad. Does that ring a bell with anyone? Thanks, Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3168	From: Richard Snook	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: RF16

curiosity here!! Some years back the (hope I get this right) CNYSGA (?) release a RF16 used an AM drive. Omnicon similar era (might have been a bit prior??) had a KIT. with their own engineered drive using some good bits and pieces it would seem ( NWSL etc). Two questions: 1) Did these two RF16 share the same bodywork...were they the same Urethane casting , just different drives?? 2) what does the Omnicon kit go for these days as a secondhand item, just ballpark?? TIA :~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3169	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train

Dave and Kathy Engle wrote: > > > > Wasn't there a Live Steam Shay in S scale at an NASG > convention some years ago? > > Back in the seventies a fellow from Canada brought a shay loco to a convention. This model was made completly in his own shop. It was not a kit. I believe he won an award for the best loco. This shay was one of the best models I have ever seen. It ran on DC. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3170	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/23/1999
Subject: Re: RF16

> From: Richard Snook > Did these two RF16 share the same bodywork...were they the same > Urethane casting , just different drives?? The CNYSG body was made by Tom Hodgson, using an HO body (Model Power?) as a pattern. The Omincon master was scratchbuilt by Bill Geracci. By the way, I didn't get a chance to say that I'm looking forward to the SW-1500. Good Luck. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3171	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: wish list

.....make that a live-steam S-gauge Hudson with laser glazed wheels and track that passes EPA standards and qualifies under my Homeowners insurance for less than $750. Thank you.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3172	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Large Scale show on East Coast

The last message contained some much from previous messages I somehow lost the following - - where and when will the large scale (garden) train show be held? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3173	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Zephyr

The brass one to be offered this fall in S-scale for $795 looks interesting, but I was confused by their mention of both the forward and aft cars are powered "just like the prototype". Did anyone else pick up on that? Does it make any sense to you? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3174	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: cleaners

Latest CTT Q&A included question about using mineral spirits (paint thinner) to clean permanently lubed (impregnated) bushings. Just FYI, it was recommended not to use such a cleaner on them.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3175	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: ATTN : Paul York -Unsubscribe

I have tried both email addresses 4 times to unsubscribe to the list. They came back as undeliverable. Please remove me from the list a.s.a.p. Thank You Bill Lane Blane@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3176	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Zephyr prototype

The prototype Zephyr(and Flying Yankee) had both end cars powered. This eliminated the need for a turnaround of the prime mover at the end points of the route. Impregnated bearings can be cleaned, but must be re-impregnated. This is usually done my immersion in hot oil (180 in 20 wt. for oilite bearings) overnight.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3177	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: Zephyr prototype

I believe you are supposed to leave the oilite bearings in the hot oil while it is cooling. As the bearing cools it contracts, causing the oil to be sucked in. At least this is what I was told by a manuafacturer many years ago... Toyguy5344@... wrote: > > Impregnated bearings can be cleaned, but must be re-impregnated. This is > usually done my immersion in hot oil (180 in 20 wt. for oilite bearings) > overnight.-john marganski > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? > http://www.onelist.com > Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3178	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: A Simple Request

Hello, S Friends. I have a simple request to make concerning replies to postings on the Digest. I know this topic has been beat over and over until we're sick of hearing about it, but it appears that there are still some subscribers out there who don't know how to use the "reply" function on their computers. Digest #242 was reproduced IN ITS ENTIRETY three times in Digest #243. What's the big deal? Well, you see, I print out each issue for our club members who don't have Internet access. Because of the redundancy of #242, #243 ended up being 87 pages long! That's a lot of wasted paper. I didn't catch the problem until it was too late. Perhaps I'd better start reviewing and editing the Digest on my monitor before I print it out (I was in a hurry this morning). Please, please--if you are responding to a message, either give us a short description or "snip" a SMALL portion of the original post. Don't include the entire original. Tree lovers everywhere will thank you, and so will your fellow subscribers. Thanks, everyone. YourS, John Eichmann Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3179	From: S Stokrocki	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: RF16

>Stan > >Thanks for the info...hmm so Tom must have a pantograph milling >capability!!! No, Tom actually "grows" the mold. He uses mold materials which have a specific shrinkage rate under controlled conditions. Since the material shrinks towards the mass, this has the effect of enlarging the mold cavity. While he's gotten pretty good at doing this, this method is not perfect. That's why shells done this way have a certain amount of distortion. Tom doesn't discuss his "secrets". Most of this information comes from Doug Miller. Stan Stokrocki

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3180	From: S Stokrocki	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: RF16

>Stan > >Thanks for the info...hmm so Tom must have a pantograph milling >>capability!!! > No, Tom actually "grows" the mold. He uses mold materials which have a specific shrinkage rate under controlled conditions. Since the material shrinks towards the mass, this has the effect of enlarging the mold cavity. While he's gotten pretty good at doing this, this method is not perfect. That's why shells done this way have a certain amount of distortion. Tom doesn't discuss his "secrets". Most of this information comes from Doug Miller. Stan Stokrocki

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3181	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Sn3/On3

I model in Sn42 which has S scale cars on HO trucks. I was just wondering how does Sn3/On3 freight cars compare in size or is there any difference. We make our own trucks so trucks isn't a issue, just the overall dimensions. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3182	From: Dick Wasenius	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: remove from mailing

Please delete me from your mailing list

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3183	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: A Simple Request

JOHN EICHMANN wrote: > Please, please--if you are responding to a message, either give us a > short description or "snip" a SMALL portion of the original post. > Don't include the entire original. Sounds like a great idea to me. It shouldn't take much effort at all to do as John requested. Along similar lines, I've noticed a huge number of messages that seem to be repeated three times: once for S-trains, once for Proto 64, and once addressed to me individually. It seems ridiculously redundant not to mention time wasteful. Has anyone thought of discontinuing the practice of automatically posting all messages to both lists? Or, perhaps both lists could be combined into one list? Maybe some other arrangement would make more sense (I ain't no expert!), but the present situation really seems strange. Does "S" stand for "strange?" Cheers...Ed L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3184	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 243

Ted, How does that affect stopping? Gregg Mummert >Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 21:05:16 EDT > From: mhrreast@... >Subject: Does your RR need a Laser Car? > > >From Machine Design, April 22 1999 > >Railroad companies calculate that they lose more than $55 million >annually in fuel costs and damage because of friction between railroad >wheels and the sides of the rails. Friction also leads to derailed >trains and potential loss of life. Research at Argonne National >Laboratory shows that laser glazing would significantly reduce the >friction between the rails and train wheels. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3185	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Replacing bellows material

Does anyone have any thoughts on the best way to glue replacement bellows material on a smoke-in-tender unit? Super glue gel, gasket-in-a-can, Silicone sealant, or something else? _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3186	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: smoke bellows glue

I have gotten good results using contact cement to glue the bellows in place. I like to hang the bellows after glueing and stretch it out with a 2 oz. dipsey sinker attached to an alligator clip on the bottom plate so it dries straight with no kinks or folds. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3187	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: CTT

Unfortunately, CTT is not and never has been a reliable source of information, especially about Flyer. Some of their greatest hits include recommending the use of original Flyer lubricants and concealing scratches on painted metal steam locos with blackening fluid. Here is another case in point. I have been cleaning oil impregnated bushings with mineral spirits for years with excellent results. Incidentally, have not found it necessary to re-impregnate these bushings for Flyer applications; just to lubricate them seems to be good enough. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3188	From: kelvin white	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: Sn3/On3

In message <049e01bea483$16e17d20$7464a8d8@baracing>, Andrew Baird <baracing@...> writes >From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > >I model in Sn42 which has S scale cars on HO trucks. >I was just wondering how does Sn3/On3 freight cars compare in size or is >there any difference. We make our own trucks so trucks isn't a issue, just >the overall dimensions. >Thank You >Andrew Baird >Nfld Rlwy > >Hi Andrew I would of thought that HO trucks are too small - ie 87/64 = 35% too small, unless you advise otherwise weren't 3ft 6in trucks of the same wheelbase as std gauge trucks? So why not regauge S std gauge trucks? Railmaster make Sn3.5 trucks for the NZ RR market, Sn3 trucks will be far too small 3ft 7in to 4ft 0in average wheelbase. On3 trucks regauged and with new bolsters may have some merit but the detail will be too big! Incidently do you want another G8, I know of a made up one (unpainted) with HO Sd9 chassis for sale, complete with side handrails - contact me off list for more details. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Campaign 2000 is here! >http://www.onelist.com >Discuss your thoughts; get informed at ONElist. See our homepage. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3189	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 5/22/1999
Subject: Re: Sn3/On3

Actually we use S Scale Archbar Trucks by Downs Model Railroad and the Betterndorf Trucks by Ace S Scale and cut them down to fit the NWSL 42" Wheelsets #7132-4. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> To: Andrew Baird <baracing@...> Cc: Proto64@onelist.com <Proto64@onelist.com>; S-trains@onelist.com <S-trains@onelist.com> Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 12:28 PM Subject: Re: [Proto64] [S-Trains] Sn3/On3 >From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> > >In message <049e01bea483$16e17d20$7464a8d8@baracing>, Andrew Baird ><baracing@...> writes >>From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> >> >>I model in Sn42 which has S scale cars on HO trucks. >>I was just wondering how does Sn3/On3 freight cars compare in size or is >>there any difference. We make our own trucks so trucks isn't a issue, just >>the overall dimensions. >>Thank You >>Andrew Baird >>Nfld Rlwy >> >>Hi Andrew > >I would of thought that HO trucks are too small - ie 87/64 = 35% too >small, unless you advise otherwise weren't 3ft 6in trucks of the same >wheelbase as std gauge trucks? So why not regauge S std gauge trucks? > >Railmaster make Sn3.5 trucks for the NZ RR market, Sn3 trucks will be >far too small 3ft 7in to 4ft 0in average wheelbase. On3 trucks regauged >and with new bolsters may have some merit but the detail will be too >big! > >Incidently do you want another G8, I know of a made up one (unpainted) >with HO Sd9 chassis for sale, complete with side handrails - contact me >off list for more details. >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Campaign 2000 is here! >>http://www.onelist.com >>Discuss your thoughts; get informed at ONElist. See our homepage. >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >>List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >-- >kelvin white > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Are you hogging all the fun? >http://www.onelist.com >Friends tell friends about ONElist! >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >The Proto:64 web site is located at: http://www.trainweb.org/proto64/ >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3190	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: Sn3/On3

Andrew Baird wrote: > > Actually we use S Scale Archbar Trucks by Downs Model Railroad and the > Betterndorf Trucks by Ace S Scale and cut them down to fit the NWSL 42" > Wheelsets #7132-4. Hello - can you tell me how to contact the distributors of S Scale Archbar Trucks by Downs Model Railroad? I have searched for standard gauge archbar trucks and found only Ace - and now they are out of stock at Scenery Unlimited. Thanks Art Armstrong aarmstro@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3191	From: Richard Snook	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Double listing!!

John, Ed & co I for one will occasionally post to two or three lists. There is a simple reason: not everyone is on both...there are some on the Proto List who are not on the S-Trains list ( or not on the Sn3 list) and vice-versa. Re combining both lists !!! well thats why the Proto list was created in the first place. Some postings would appeal to both camps , some won't. Not a perfect science I'll grant you!! Snipping is good idea though. Re duplicate mails..I just delete one of them as I go. :~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3192	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Scale Size items from Lledo

This is regarding some interesting items on the Lledo Days Gone By website. Ted Larson --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> In message <19990516.194516.8223.12.mhrreast@...>, mhrreast@... writes > >Hi Kelvin, >Can you help out regarding whether the >brewer's wagon and Airflow tanker are S scale? >Ted > Hi Ted Both are to S scale or with in a near percentage - from memory (as I havn't got one) I think the airflow tanker is a little overscale. I see the tanker in the shops from tme to time but brewers dray is rare. Best regards -- Kelvin White --------- End forwarded message ---------- ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3193	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: remove from mailing

Why don't you go to one list and do it as it tells you to? Dick Wasenius wrote: > From: Dick Wasenius <ctrptr@...> > > Please delete me from your mailing list > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking to expand your world? > http://www.onelist.com > ONElist has nearly 150,000 e-mail communities from which to chose! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3194	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: New SW-9 paint schemes

Dear S Gaugers, Our builder told us a few weeks ago that he had enough extra parts to make some additional SW-9s. These are expected in November after the next run of boxcars and three car sets. These can be reserved either through your local hobby shop or direct. I will post P&L diagrams on the web once they are completed. The only change in tooling will be to revise the standard pilot mold so that the opening is the same size as the MU pilot. We will have extra of these unpainted casting. SW-9 DIESEL SWITCHER $199.95 - New 1999 Paint Schemes #00426 Nov 99 Chesapeake & Ohio #1 blue/yellow #00427 Nov 99 Chesapeake & Ohio #2 blue/yellow #00428 Nov 99 CB&Q #1 Chinese red/grey/white "New Paint Scheme" #00429 Nov 99 CB&Q #2 Chinese re/grey/white "New Paint Scheme" #00430 Nov 99 D&RGW #1 black/gold #00431 Nov 99 D&RGW #2 black/gold #00432 Nov 99 ICG #1 white/orange/black #00433 Nov 99 ICG #2 white/orange/black #00434 Nov 99 Northern Pacific #1 black/imt. gold #00435 Nov 99 Northern Pacific #2 black/imt. gold #00436 Nov 99 Union Pacific #1 yellow/grey/red New Slogan "Dependable Transportaion" #00437 Nov 99 Union Pacific #2 yellow/grey/red New Slogan "Dependable Transportaion" -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3195	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: spray paints

Do any list members have any info on the following (esp. David Dewey)? News reports state that the state of Calif is going to require paint makers to reformulate their products to reduce pollution/ozone layer damage. Such is Calif's influence that other states are likely to follow. Does this mean that oil base enamels will be even harder to find? I am worried about this because I do not believe in using water based paints to restore old trains and other items originally painted with enamels and lacquers. I do not believe that acrylics will last as long as oil based enamels. I do not think the acrylic finishes are as hard which is important with toy trains. I do not believe that acrylic and oil based enamels will age gracefully together in a side by side situation.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3196	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/24/1999
Subject: Re: spray paints

Hi All, Tom's posting has caught me with my files down -- uh, that is to say my paint info stuff is in storage, so I will try to address his questions from memory, always a dangerous thing for me to do! Yes, California is passing laws that govern air-born solvents--there's an abbreviation for these, but I can't remember it! The result, in the automotive field, and eventually even the over-the-counter spray can field, is that Lacquers are going, if not gone (But not furniture lacquers, yet--but they are a different thing anyway). Acrylic Enamel is also on the way out. The replacement is low VOC --hey, I remembered it! (but not what it's an abbreviation for)--eurathane coatings. The new stuff is more poisonous than the old, go figure! The new stuff is also more expensive (Duh!!) but so far seems to be pretty good stuff--I've been using it on my Model T some, and have used it on other cars, one about 4 years ago and it still looks great. Other options will be water-born or water-based paints, but these are a far cry from house paints, some of them seem to be quite good. Old fashioned oil-based enamels (like Alkyd (sp?) enamels are actually softer than the acrylic stuff, and I'm told the new eurathane stuff is actually less brittle than acrylics. I'm not sure what AF used, but I doubt it was enamel, unless they ran it through a bake oven, as it's just too slow drying for production use. I know the Red on the Mystic station bodies seems to be printer's ink, and it's not highly durable! What to do??? Well, many options: 1) horde all you think you'll ever need, 2) figure out what new stuff works for you 3) let someone else do it. Hmm, and that's the good news! One really good thing, is it doesn't take much paint to do our models (15 Gallons before thinning for the average full-sized Loco) and you will probably find small amounts still around for quite a while, more so if you're far away from this local! (The land of Fruits & Nuts, as I've heard it described!<G>and no, I'm not meaning to pick on anyone or group by that statement) Aging, Hmm good question, Tom, yes, they are different critters, so they will probably react somewhat differently. I do know that I've noticed my Daylight paint jobs seem to be prone to scratches and chips more so than original paint, anyone else think this about their repaints, and any ideas??? I've tried protective clear coats (you can clear coat in any level of satin to gloss you like by adding "flattening agent") with some degree of success. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3197	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: TO Allen Evans

Allen Evans of Lousiana, would you please send me a note off-line? I have some information for you, but I do not have your address. Thanks, Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3198	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: in the red

Does anyone have a spare red lense for the rotating beacon? Mine now has a melt mark in it. Not sure how, but apparently the top must have recently tipped off its pin while the bulb was still hot. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3199	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Don Munsey, Jr. -- ALERT!!!

Would Mr. Munsey, Jr. please contact me off line regarding the three kits he sold to me? Thanks...Ed L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3200	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: paints and painting

re the recent paint postings:The federal gov't was rumored to be in the process of banning solvent-based paints quite some time ago. That was the reason for so many paints for modelers becoming hard to find-Pactra just folded it's tents and sold to Testor, Humbrol distribution became hard-to-find,etc.As far as the water-based model paints go, in my experirnce with model aircraft they are not nearly adequate. They have an extremely poor shelf life-even if a bottle is opened for hand brushing,let alone thinned for spraying. Gloss and semi-gloss colors,and gloss and semi-gloss clear coats are prone to cracking-they don't lift and flake away, but crack randomly as if the finish was shrinking. Adhesion is another issue i ahve with water base. The best adhesion is when the model is primed with, say Floquil Reefer white or Humbrol Flat White. Adhesion to bare plastic or metal(or resin)is iffy , even if you,ve cleaned it with the strongest of soaps(acetone or xylene for metal and resin still=bad adhesion) - pulling off of the base color will result if you have to mask for another color-although using Post-It notes instead of chart or masking tape diminishes this problem. Paints that have been re-formulated to be safer while still being solvent based seem to have lost much or their gloss-I am making particular reference to Classic Model Train brand. In this case, baking gaurentees a glossy finish-but how many of us have access to a paint drying oven? My solution for unbakable parts (plastic) has been to use Humbrol Clear Varnish-it has proven to me that it doesn't yellow, lift or spall. The next best is Floquil's line of clear finishes, although they have a tendency to spall over time. The worst clear finishes are those made by Testor and MicroScale.They yellow and lift over time-decals will even lift with the top coat. These observations are made from my 27 years of model aircraft building-so I have a sort of long-term paint survival lab. So I feel that the answer for paint availability in the future is expensive-time to buy an airbrush and get familiar with using it. Unopened Floquil has a shelf life of about 5 years.Unopened Humbrol has a shelf life approaching infinity!! Incedentally, Humbrol's batch consistency is near-perfect. I have had to repair and touch up models that were built 20 years ago,using this year's Humbrol, and have had a perfect match. Perhaps our English connection can fill us in , does Humbrol make rail colors? But they do make the best clear top coats in the industry.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3201	From: Boss31@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 247

Scott Holm asked about glues for SIT bellows material and Tom gave him one good option. However there is one type of contact cement that is made especially for rubber, latex, fabric etc. It is called Black Magic. It can be found at Scuba Dive shops as they use it to repair wet suits. In fact it is the glue used to manufacture the wet suits. A small can of it used to cost a $1 but I haven't bought one in years. I still have a lifetime supply (for me). It is foolproof and mega strong. Steve Blackburn RMHR Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3202	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Adding sound to AF engines

Thanks to all who answered that it is the S-238 (4-40x1/8th shouldered) screw for the 761 semaphore arm. And thanks to Tom Jarcho who gave hints on how to make one, since the parts suppliers don't seem to carry this one yet. Now for a more interesting question; How can sound be added to AF engines that weren't so equipped? Such as, AF air-chimes and bells, or more sophisticated sounds, like Railsounds? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3203	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Quarter Time

Has anyone ever attempted to convert an AF steam loco to real quarter time for the choo choo?? Seems with the right tooling, a gear kit could be made that would work.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3204	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Quarter Time

Has anyone ever attempted to convert an AF steam loco to real quarter time for the choo choo?? Seems with the right tooling, a gear kit could be made that would work.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3205	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Scale loco on ebay

Just thought y'all might want to know about a mid-50s S SCALE locomotive on eBay, item number #106330616 . Interesting, made using the Pennsy K shells. Made my "Midgauge" ??? URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=106330616 S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3206	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: K-line S-gauge track

I wrote in asking for information. Here's the reply I received. Yes, indeed we still make the S gauge track and it should be compatible with old American Flyer track. We have Wide 54' curves (K-0412) $3.45; regular straight (10")(K=0432) $3.45; and extra long straight (30")(K-0452) $9.45. We also have insulator pins and solid pins $1.95. You can look this up on our website (listed in signature line below) and use the Locator section to find a nearby dealer (although I didn't see one that looked close to DC, which I think Reston is close to). We as yet do not have e-commerce capability, but if all else fails, you can try reaching our Customer Service Department to place an order at 800-866-9986. I hope this information is helpful. _____________________ Sean T. O'Brien K-Line Trains Media (MDK Inc.) Website: http://www.k-linetrains.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3207	From: Jarcho	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: K-line track

The K-line S gauge track I have seen presents two problems. The pins are slightly larger than Gilbert's, and the metal in the rails seems to be much softer. Therefore joining it to Gilbert track can be difficult and in the process it may get bent out of gauge. TJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3208	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: K-line track

K-Line retooled the AF track and present production has smaller pins. I don't know about the quality of the metal, though! It's still cheaper to find old AF track, even on eBAy! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3209	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines

Easy to add sound. Use OTT sound systems. They can be bought from this website. http://www.justrains.com/OMS.htm I have outfitted a box car with the Ott steam whistle with chug sound. The chug can be unplugged when the car is behind a Flyer loco with choo choo sound. I have another boxcar with a Williams horn in it for use with diesels. Don't like the horn much and probably would prefer an Ott horn. These all work with Lionel Railsounds buttons. You can also buy an Ott sound control box from Ott or American Models. My sound cars are equipped with SHS trucks to which I added brass wire pick ups. Pretty easy to rig and reliable if you don't mind the trial and error fitting. You can buy Ott whistle, Ott horn, Ott digital steam sounds or digital Diesel sound etc. from the above web site. Scott Holm wrote: > > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > Thanks to all who answered that it is the S-238 (4-40x1/8th shouldered) screw for the 761 > semaphore arm. And thanks to Tom Jarcho who gave hints on how to make one, since the parts > suppliers don't seem to carry this one yet. > > Now for a more interesting question; How can sound be added to AF engines that weren't so > equipped? Such as, AF air-chimes and bells, or more sophisticated sounds, like Railsounds? > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking to expand your world? > http://www.onelist.com > ONElist has over 150,000 e-mail communities from which to chose! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3210	From: Bill Porter	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: paints and painting

Hi Ya'll, I have had good luck with the Tamiya brand of water based paints. They are not always easy to find. They do come in a wide variety of colors, flat and gloss, opaque and transparent, railroad, automobile, aircraft and military. Over the years I have experienced no shrinking nor cracking. When I finish a model, I usually apply Testor's Dullcoat over it - very lightly with an airbrush. A couple of coats does the job. A nice side benefit is that the jars have wide mouths and plastic tops & top inserts. That makes it possible to clean them up after the paint is done and then reuse them for mixing or for holding paints from other sources. My supply of the jars never decreases. I have found them at many good shops; one good mail order source is Caboose Hobbies in Denver if you can't find them locally. Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3211	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines

Hi Charles: Just what is a Lionel Railsounds box? Any thoughts on what's inside? Does anyone on the list here have more info? What type of electronics are we talking about? Is the controller an oscillator? Does anyone know the frequency and amplitude of its output signal? What comprises a receiver? I looked at the Web page you referenced, and it seems to me I've looked into OMS products before, but I'm left without a real clue! :-) Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3212	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: bellows

<<Does anyone have any thoughts on the best way to glue replacement bellows material on a smoke-in-tender unit? Super glue gel, gasket-in-a-can, Silicone sealant, or something else? >> I've tried out several things, and my best success is with "Liquid Electrical Tape". Seal it to the two panels, then seal the overlapping seam.........Leave it extended overnight. By the next day it will work fine, and be flexible. Of course, nice SOFT, flexible bellows make a big difference too! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3213	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines

In a message dated 5/25/99 6:16:16 PM !!!First Boot!!!, cesmith@... writes: << Easy to add sound. Use OTT sound systems. They can be bought from this website. http://www.justrains.com/OMS.htm >> The link does not work... anyone else get in?? Maybe a typo in there?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3214	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Ott website

Dear Trains16, I clicked on the address in your e-mail and Ott's website came up perfectly. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3215	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines

Finally got in folks. This AOL browser is less than pathetic lately.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3216	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: : SuggeStionS

Here is a fun note from SUNRISE. Ted Larson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TCLarson wrote: > Hi Dan, > > I just finished going through my photos of GN diseasals. > A few have frame mount bell, but most have bell mounted > atop the hood. Any chance you'll make that style in S? > Thanks, > Ted Larson --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Dan Crews <sunrise@...> To: mhrreast@... Subject: Re: SuggeStionS Date: Tue, 25 May 1999 06:44:02 -0700 Message-ID: <374AA922.96FE609B@...> References: <3748D645.2891@...> Ted, A very good morning and Thanks for the email. Yes. I think this would be a possibility, I've wanted to make this in N so I will try and get this project in the works for S scale as well. Might want to check back in a few weeks. Thanks, Dan Crews Sunrise Enterprises --------- End forwarded message ---------- ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3217	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Ott sound systems

Here's a web site that describes the Ott systems with a little more detail http://www.trainexchange.com/ott.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3218	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: WANTED

For a future NASG Dispatch article: advertisements, catalog information, or other information on "heritage" S scale vehicles such as '60's Winross, '50's Aurora semis, '60's Matchbox, or any other information that will help S modelers identify and collect 1:64th scale vehicles for their layouts. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3219	From: John Foley	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Message from #Rd RailDelivered-To: foley164@ptdprolog.net X-Sender:

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3220	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] WANTED

For example, the message below has little to do with 1/64 scale sized flanges and trackwork. Why was it on P:64? Not trying to be difficult, but it just doesn't make any sense to me. Cheers...Ed L. mhrreast@... wrote: > For a future NASG Dispatch article: advertisements, > catalog information, or other information on "heritage" > S scale vehicles such as '60's Winross, '50's Aurora > semis, '60's Matchbox, > or any other information that will help > S modelers identify and collect 1:64th scale > vehicles for their layouts. > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3221	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines

Alex, A railsounds button contains a diode in one direction and six diodes opposed. If you have horn and bell or whistle and bell you need 2 buttons, connected opposite polarity to each other and inserted in one of the wires from your transformer to the track. They are the modern version of the old whistle button transformers that turned on a rectifier to change the current to DC when the whistle button was pushed. In fact, an Ott sound system will activate from one of the old Lionel whistling transformers if the polarity is correct. Polarity is a factor because Lionel can use the center rail to keep polarity straight. With Flyer, if you turn the engine or sound car around the functions of the button flip. Horn becomes bell and vice versa. If you use the Ott 2 button actuater then the functions of the Ott buttons flip when the loco or sound car is physically reversed. The Ott stuff is really easy to hook up. Like I said, the hardest part is making and adjusting the truck pickups. I didn't mention before I first installed the Ott whistle in an old style (reverse in boiler) 310 tender but decided carrying it in a boxcar behind the engine was moe versatile. The advantage of carrying it in the tender is that the pickups are already there to solder to. American Models trucks are easy to add pickups to because only one wheel on each axle is insulated, so you merely have the pick up wire rub the axle. Alex Mendelsohn wrote: > > From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> > > Hi Charles: > > Just what is a Lionel Railsounds box? Any thoughts on what's inside? > > Does anyone on the list here have more info? What type of electronics are we > talking about? Is the controller an oscillator? Does anyone know the > frequency and amplitude of its output signal? What comprises a receiver? > > I looked at the Web page you referenced, and it seems to me I've looked > into OMS products before, but I'm left without a real clue! :-) > > Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3222	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines

I just tested the link from this reply note and got into the site OK. Try again. Trains16@... wrote: > > In a message dated 5/25/99 6:16:16 PM !!!First Boot!!!, cesmith@... > writes: > > << Easy to add sound. Use OTT sound systems. They can be bought from this > website. > http://www.justrains.com/OMS.htm >> > > The link does not work... anyone else get in?? Maybe a typo in there? -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3223	From: Joe Visintine	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Whistling thanks

Thanks to Tom Davis, Tom Jarcho, and Dale Smith for their knowledge and help in the Flyer whistle department. A push in the right direction sure helps .... Joe Visintine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3224	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: K-line track

If K-line S gauge track has been re-tooled then I apologize for criticizing it. Their 3 rail O gauge track is certainly fine. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3225	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines

Many thanks for that detailed description Charles. Now, can anyone on the thread explain what's inside the box/es? Regards, Alex > -----Original Message----- > From: Charles E. Smith [mailto:cesmith@...] > > > Alex, > A railsounds button contains a diode in one direction and six diodes > opposed. If you have horn and bell................

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3226	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: K-line track

I was thinking of using their 30" long straights to reduce interconnection points. Anyone have experience with this? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3227	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: OMS sounds

Someone mentioned using the steam sounds (chuffing, puffing, etc. I'm assuming). What's that like? Is it timed to how fast the engine is moving, or how many volts have been applied, how much load the motor is under? Is it realistic sounding? I love AF choo-choo, even the subtle difference in sound between different vintage cc units, but I have to admit, at shows, some of those modern 0-gauge T-1's, etc. sound great. I'd consider adding OMS to a hollowed out 970 box car I have to something like a 28X/29X Pacific with a hose straight through the choo-choo chamber into the smoke unit to keep the smoke but eliminate the AF choo choo. Opinions?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3228	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: OMS sounds

Not sure I understand your hose concept. However, there are 2 types of sound for steam. 1) One is a whistle with chuff sound for 30 something dollars. Chuff sounds pretty good, kind of a white noise sound. Whistle is not great but I got mine to dip a little by adjusting the pots that come on the circuit board. It is timed so chuff frequency increases with voltage, so no physical connection to the engine speed. Frequency ratio to voltage is also adjustable. 2) Similar to what's in an American Models steamer. Costs over $100. Analog recorded whistle and bell as well as chuff sounds. See the Ott page at http://www.trainexchange.com/ott.htm for a description of the functions. Opinion: I had 0ver $30 worth of fun getting the cheaper whistle system going. The chuff unplugs if you want to use the whistle only to run it with a Flyer with Choo Choo. David_Horn@... wrote: > > From: David_Horn@... > > Someone mentioned using the steam sounds (chuffing, puffing, etc. I'm > assuming). What's that like? Is it timed to how fast the engine is > moving, or how many volts have been applied, how much load the motor is > under? Is it realistic sounding? > > I love AF choo-choo, even the subtle difference in sound between different > vintage cc units, but I have to admit, at shows, some of those modern > 0-gauge T-1's, etc. sound great. > > I'd consider adding OMS to a hollowed out 970 box car I have to something > like a 28X/29X Pacific with a hose straight through the choo-choo chamber > into the smoke unit to keep the smoke but eliminate the AF choo choo. > > Opinions? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > It's finally here! What's your opinion? > http://www.onelist.com > Create a Star Wars discussion group at ONElist. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3229	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines & AF Sound Tubes

Many thanks for that detailed description Charles. Now, can anyone on the thread explain what's inside the box/es? Regards, Alex Sure, Gizmos, thing-a-bobs, whatzits, Itty-bitty electrical gadgets. Probably about a dollars' worth of stuff! Now, seriously, I have thought for some time about builiding a "sound generator can" that would plug into the ACG control button box using modern componants to send a multiple fequency signal for the speaker to pick up and resonate. My idea for a steam whistle is at least three sound generators, and maybe a capacitor set-up so the sound will sorta build up and die out, just like the real thing. I figured if I could ever figure it out, I'd build it and then pour an epoxy tube around it, that way no one can figure out what I've done!!<G> Now where to get ready-made base plugs..... One thing I've found, maybe Tom can verifiy this, is that different generator tubes and buttons are wired differently. I understand the sliding switch control requires the red cardboard tube. Apparently the metal can tubes are all wired the same, but the black and red tubes are not. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3230	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: OMS sounds -- Stopping Choo-Choo

David, If you want to stop the AF choo choo, just pull the sheet metal plate out of the smoke unit, the "Choo" is caused by the air striking the sharp edges of the hole in the plate. No hose needed! However, you do have to pull the top plate to do this, so don't forget to unsolder and unwind the nichrome heating wire first if your smoke unit is working, otherwise you'll have to rebuild it! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3231	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: K-line track

In a message dated 5/26/99 9:25:15 AM, David_Horn@... writes: << I was thinking of using their 30" long straights to reduce interconnection points. Anyone have experience with this? Thanks. >> The 30" long straights work very well from an operational standpoint, as does all of the K-Line sectional track. Just remember that the tie spacing is 'even' along the section and is not compatitble with rubber roadbed (if you plan to use it). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3232	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: What about adding Flyer-type whistle and bell?

Some of the Flyer engines had a whistle and a bell. How can these be "duplicated" in an engine that has neither? Can you just add a speaker (any specific type?) and capacitor and use the buzzer whistle controller for the whistle? Is there anything to make it sound more like a steam whistle than an electronic horn? And what about the bell? What is it? How is it activated? I understand that with the electronic versions the bell is activated by a DC signal superimposed on the AC power that is of the reverse polarity of the DC signal used to activate the whistle, but I thought this DC signal concept was only used in Flyer for the 314AW. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3233	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines

Hi again Charles: Hmmm...okay. Well, gosh, if I could see what the waveshape of the signal is that's applied to the tracks, I could probably devise a relatively simple transistor or IC oscillator and the appropriate power-driver circuit to provide alternative signals. It would be fun to see if that could be done, with an eye towards improving the sound and variety of sounds that could be transmitted to the loudspeaker in the locos. Perhaps I'll try feeding the output of one of my audio signal generators onto the track and see if I can get the tender speaker to respond. My signal generator provides sine wave output, as well as triangle, squarewave, and pulse signals. The question is: what level signal at what impedance will be required? I guess experimentation will be needed. It seems conceivable that simple sounds could be trasmitted directly--without receiving electronics at the engine. Of course, with a full-fledged receiver in the train, it seems you could send almost any audio--even the engineer yapping at the fireman--across the rails. -- Alex

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3234	From: busy-boy	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Justrains

http://www.justrains.com/OMS.htm took me there just fine. CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3235	From: Dave Heine	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines

Sounds like you guys are starting to reinvent the PFM "through the rails" sound system. Updated versions are commercially available, with probably the highest end system by PBL (of Sn3 fame). Soundtraxx (and others) make their own compatible (with the trains) systems. These work by running the loco on pure DC. The audio frequencies are sent through the rails to a speaker in the loco. A radio frequency signal is also sent through the rails for chuff synchronization. One of the advantages of these systems don't require too much in the loco. If you can fit the speaker in, you can probably use it. A DC blocking capacitor is required in series with the speaker. A small capacitor in series with the sync wiper, which actually shorts out the rails. The motor's own inductance takes care of blocking the high frequencies from it. Other advantages are you only need one set of complex electronics for each train you plan to run using it, it's easy to connect a subwoofer for good bass (a problem with loco sized speakers), and you can send any sound you want through the rails. The disadvantages are the everything is sent through the rails with its inherent contact problems, wiring problems can cause loss of the RF chuff sync signal, and you have to run the loco on pure DC. Because you can send any sound you want through the rails, you can also send clickety-clack noises, coupler clanks, and anything else you think of. The only thing is the same sound is sent to any speaker on the train, so it you run a doubleheader, both locos will have the same sound and chuff sync. I built a homemade PFM compatible system around '82, but later started using command control, which is incompatible with a sound/control system which ties up the frequency spectrum. I'm finally getting back into sound while using DCC control. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3236	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 5/25/1999
Subject: Re: Live Steam Model Running With Train

Thanks for the clarification on the SHAY engine. Of all the things in Life I have lost, I miss my mind the most. Lee Johnson wrote: > From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) > > At 4:56 PM 5/22/99, Dave and Kathy Engle wrote: > >Henry Sprague represents at least a second go at live steam--the shay > >owner was Reg > >Bilodeaux or something like that. > > > > The shay Reg Bilodeau built (he built 2 the same) made its first appearance > at the NASG 1974 Convention, and it was powered by an electric motor--not > steam. I saw both of the shays operating on his layout during the NASG > 1976 Convention in Ottawa. Reg probaly completed building these shays in > 1973 or 1974. I remember seeing Henry Sprague's climax operate in 1973. > Besides the climax, he had a 2-8-2 and a 4-6-2 of which the latter was > letterd for Soo Lines. I know both the climax and the 4-6-2 were completed > in 1972 or earlier. He was working on the 2-8-2 when I visited him in > 1973. > > Lee > > >Lee Johnson wrote: > > > >> From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) > >> > >> Llive steam in S is not out of the question. It has been done, and without > >> using a fire at that. Henry Sprague ran his S scale live steam locomotives > >> on the West Bay club in Menlo Park, CA. Henry is now deceased. He had a > >> nichrome wire in the boiler, and varied the voltage to the nichrome wire to > >> make steam or not make steam which in turn would increase the loco speed or > >> decrease the speed. He had screw motor drive in the tender that as track > >> polarity reversed, the screw motor would operate and through linkage to the > >> locomotive would operate the valve gear of the locomotive to change > >> direction of the locomotive. The only water capacity was in the boiler. > >> It was a marvel to watch the locomotive in action. > >> > >> Then to really blow your mind, Henry would park the locmotive next to a > >> water column, unscrew the top of the sand dome, move the spout of the water > >> column over the open top of the sand dome, and proceed to fill the > >> locomotive boiler with water coming from the scale water column. It was a > >> sight you never forget. > >> > >> Or if that is too much trouble, you could make a dry ice propelled > >> locomotive as was done in O scale in the early '50's. This was basically > >> the same as a live steam loco, except the tank for the dry ice was in the > >> tender, and the amount of gas produced by the dry ice going to the > >> cylinders was regulated by a valve operated by a small 12v DC motor in the > >> cab, and the motor was operated by track voltage. > >> > >> Ingenious people these model railroaders. Where there is a will there > >>is a way. > >> > >> Lee > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? > >> http://www.onelist.com > >> More than 1,000! Create yours now! > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > >> List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > What do lizards and rock music have in common? > http://www.onelist.com > They both have communities at ONElist. Find yours today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3237	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Dept. 56 '55 Fords

Here is some disappointing news about the '55 Fords shown at the Christmas Mouse website. Ted Larson --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- Ashley Marshall <cmouse@...> writes: >Dear Mr. Larson, > > Hello! I received the information from Department 56 this morning >about the size of the 1955 Fords. Department 56 has listed the new >fords at 5 inches for the dimension. >If you have further questions or concerns about these pieces or other >pieces please let me know. If you would like to remain on our waiting >list for these people please let me know as I will add your name to my >list. >Thank you again and I look forward to hearing from you soon. >Thank You, >Ashley > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3238	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: KLine track

<<K-Line retooled the AF track and present production has smaller pins. I don't know about the quality of the metal, though! >> Haven't seen their "retooled track" yet, but hopefully in the process they also eliminated the sharp edges that their S track used to have. Too easy to get cut on it.....not good for kids therefore. That's the main reason we chose not to carry it. MAYBE that's not the case any more. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3239	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: AF "quarter-time"

<<Has anyone ever attempted to convert an AF steam loco to real quarter time for the choo choo?? Seems with the right tooling, a gear kit could be made that would work. >> Interesting that someone should ask!!!! I recently took apart a junker Pacific (I believe), and just happened to notice that the gear assembly wasn't "normal". With a brief inspection, I realized that someone had actually modified it to puff-and-chug at "double-time". Not real complicated, but it obviously took a little time to accomplish the modification. I've kept it sitting on the counter ever since, thinking I might try to copy it and offer a conversion kit in the future. Just need one thing......TIME! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3240	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: unSubscribe

This information was in an old issue of S-Trains; >To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription >to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and >select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left. Ted Larson ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3241	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: K-line track

In a message dated 5/26/99 9:25:15 AM, David_Horn@... writes: << I was thinking of using their 30" long straights to reduce interconnection points. Anyone have experience with this? Thanks. >> The 30" long straights work very well from an operational standpoint, as does all of the K-Line sectional track. Just remember that the tie spacing is 'even' along the section and is not compatitble with rubber roadbed (if you plan to use it). Do they make 30 inch straights now? I have their 36 inch straights which screws everything up. Cutting down on the number of interconnections also has a negative side in that it limits your options for creating isolated blocks. The ties can be slid to the right size for rubber roadbed or to make room for an automatic car rail or 697 trip.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3242	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: Re: electronic trip parts

From: jdoran <jdoran@...> And does anyone have a parts list for the electronic track trip that is described in the AF repair manual. The parts he talks about don't seem to exist a Radio Shack anymore If you are talking about the reed switches, Radio Shack only has Reed Relays now. Part number 275-232 is a 5 volt reed relay which can be modified for use in building Barker's electronic trip from the AF repair and operating manual (the 12 volt reed relay could also be used.) The coil winding that is on the switch has a resistance of 250 ohms which is too high to use in series with a train, so it should be removed by cutting the wrapper and the coil wire and pulling it off until you are left with a sealed tube which contains the switch. This is essentially a plain reed switch which you now can wind with the #26 magnet wire, (which is also available in a package of 3 different gauges at Radio Shack,) as detailed in the manual. I think for some applications where the 60 cycle chatter doesn't affect operation, you wouldn't even need the diode, capacitor, or relay.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3243	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/26/1999
Subject: track

I,m just getting back in to S-scale after getting my first AF when I was 6, Over the years I found that parts where getting harder and harder to get. I love the biger trains but as we know HO had all the fun and O gage was to toy like with the 3 rail system. Well the Army came and getting a wife I find my kids loving the big trains like I did back when I was 6. So here is the big question where can I get track and switches that look nice like the ones in HO but are in S-scale so I can may be run my AF GP-7 and put some realisem in my railroading Chris

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3244	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: track

Chris, Check out the new track system fron S-Helper Service and also American Models makes a snap-track system similar to Atlas HO. The advantage of the S-Helper Service track system is that it has the same geometry as the American Flyer track system and has a built in roadbed with ballast. Good luck and welcome back, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3245	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: electronic track trip

Very interesting. Barker's track trip recipe is one of the things I always wanted to see discussed on S-list. I built 3 of them but could never get them to work reliably enough. Eventually just bought Flyer trips.Consider the design one of many mistakes in that book. The reed switch contacts burn out, too. Any one have better luck or a better way? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3246	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: magnet wire

Does anybody know of a source for magnet wire AWG sizes #24,#27,#28,#29,#32,etc, preferably in small or medium sized spoools? Is there a slot car parts supplier or something like that out there? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3247	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: magnet wire

Radio Shack sells the wire you are looking for. A while back I used their wire to rewind an armature in a AF PA and that motor worked better then the factory wound motor! Tom Davis, Charlotte,N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3248	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: magnet wire

Radio Shack only has #22, #26, and #30 magnet wire. Those are not what I'm looking for. Especially need #27 and #32. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3249	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: track

You have choices: 1) Gargraves track and switches in both sectional and flex track. Any reasonably equipped train shop should carry this or can order it for you. reasonably priced and also compatible with AF switches (they will sit about 1/32" off the table which is OK). Switch machines need to be installed if Gargraves switches are used. 2) American Models sectional and flex track and switches with hand throws or electrically powered. Just like oversize HO track, looks and performs great. You probably want to add cork or homosote roadbed. A little more expensive than Gargraves but grade A appearance. Check with AM at: http://www.americanmodels.com/ 3) S Helper Service makes a great looking track system with roadbed attached. Would be first choice except switches are not yet available. They make AF adaptors which moght allow you to use AF switches. A little pricey but no effort involved and decent looking. Check with SHS at: http://www.showcaseline.com/ Chris & Kathleen wrote: > > From: Chris & Kathleen <wb8ypo@...> > > I,m just getting back in to S-scale after getting my first AF when I was 6, > Over the years I found that parts where getting harder and harder to get. > I love the biger trains but as we know HO had all the fun and O gage was to > toy > like with the 3 rail system. Well the Army came and getting a wife I find > my kids > loving the big trains like I did back when I was 6. So here is the big > question > where can I get track and switches that look nice like the ones in HO but are > in S-scale so I can may be run my AF GP-7 and put some realisem in my > railroading > > Chris > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ONElist: where the world talks! > http://www.onelist.com > Join a new list today. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3250	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: magnet wire

Try looking up a place called SkyCraft Surplus in Winter Park, FL. When I lived in Orlando, they had tons of electronic surplus stuff at cheap prices. I always got 300 to 500 foot small plastic spools of that wire for about $3 to $5. Not sure if they ship though, you'll have to call. Good luck....Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3251	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Adding sound to AF engines

Here's some more info on sound I picked up on the Toy Trains list. toytrains-errors@... wrote: > > -------------- BEGIN toytrains.v002.n401 -------------- > > 001 - Mike Duncan <mgduncan@esp - Lionel Railsounds Car Review > > --------------- MESSAGE toytrains.v002.n401.1 --------------- > > From: Mike Duncan <mgduncan@...> > Subject: Lionel Railsounds Car Review > Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:00:04 -0400 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I just got my Lionel Railsounds REA steam sound car, No. 6-19859. Wow! > The whistle and chuff are the best I've heard. The chuff is synchronized. > The chuff synch switch is probably the best kind: a solid state Hall-effect > sensor near a magnetic disk on the axel. It should last indefinitely. The > car has a lifetime warranty, and the circuit board appears to be repairable > and upgradable (socketed IC's). Also, the chuff will sometimes make the > sound of slipping drive wheels (2 rapid chuffs) when starting. The chuff > sound becomes brighter as the speed increases, just like the real thing. > > The speaker is placed in an enclosure over one of the diecast trucks so it > can be positioned close to the tender. It can produce loud volume. > Railsounds appears to have wider audio bandwidth than Protosounds, which in > turn has wider bandwidth than my PH sound unit. > > The whistle will sometimes dip on either attack or decay, and there is > more than one dip style. The only down side is the dip sometimes make it > difficult to blow a short blast. The whistle response is quicker than > Protosounds. > > If the optional 9V battery is installed, the sounds continue after power is > turned off for a few seconds, then it sounds like the steam is being shut > off. > The idle sounds turn on before my Williams B6 begins to move at 2V, even > without > the optional battery. Without battery, the bell is a little flakey. I > believe this is due to the low track voltage used by the B6. > > I had expected that some sounds might be programmable with TrainMaster, but > they aren't. One can turn off the steam sounds with a switch if one only > wants bell and whistle, and there is a volume control potentiometer. The > price is attractive at mailorder prices of $145. Lionel also makes a more > expensive sound tender, but one can use the REA car with any AC O steam > engine. IMO, the Lionel Railsounds car is the most cost effective way to > add sound to a silent locomotive. While OTT reportedly makes a good > moderately priced sound board, theirs reportedly uses track voltagae for > chuff rate which results in inconsistant chuff synchronization as does > Protosounds. > > Mike Duncan -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3252	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: magnet wire

Tom & all Radio shack wire is so-so, and only three sizes, I'm on my way to look at the New Roseville Yards, and don't have time right now to dig out my sources, however, what is "small" quantities?? I had to buy about $40 of wire to get what I wanted, but it's insulated to 180 Deg. Celcius--even called "Unsolderable". I promised someone enough to do their loco some time back, I just found the roll last week (don't ask about my filing system, but if you need something hidden and lost, I can do it!!). When I get back tonite, I'll see where I got it and other details. S' David D. PS just read Dave's post--wow! if they have it, it's a steal!! I do have some odball space stuff a friend got me from one of the areospace companies, it might be what Tom's looking for, I have plenty, if it's what will work! Later!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3253	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Barker's AF repair and operating manual

--- Jarcho <jarcho@...> wrote: > ...one of many mistakes in that book You've piqued my curiosity. What are the other mistakes? I thought this book was great and still do, but if there's some gotchas in there I'd sure like to save myself some trouble. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3254	From: John Foley	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Large Scale Train Show

Hi Folks The Train show Don Thompson was talking about in NJ a while back has a web site at, http://www.trainshow.largescale.com/index.html Check it out. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3255	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Barker's AF repair manual

Tom Barker's AF repair manual and his columns in S Gaugian were a tremendous contribution to what we do -- make no mistake about that! He is quite a guy and I mean him no disrespect. His written work certainly helped me and many other guys get started again. However, his book is riddled with errors and some of his material has become dated. Off the top of my head, without the book in front of me, here are a few mistakes that I recall: 1. It is almost impossible to rebush diesel motor chassises with a home drill press. They simply are not accurate enough. The proper tool to use is a side millimg machine. He used an industrial druill press in the Xerox shops I believe. 2. Steam loco drive wheels should not be repaired with epoxy. It will not hold over time and just makes a mess. The proper adhesive to use is slow acting ACC. 3. That track trip doesn't work well. 4. I believe the diagram for installing a diode bridge in a loco for DC operation has an error in it. Not sure about this since I don't use DC. 5. Shur-line paint pads have changed and are no longer suitable for repairing cows'feet. 6. A Baldwin diesel field should be rewound with #27 wire, not #26, and the armature should be rewound with #30. 7. It's not the length of wire that's important in rewinding, but the number of turns. 8. If you install a roller switch in a #720A switch, you don't usually need a relay. The switch will reverse the polarity of the inner loop rail, and the roller switch can be used to reverse the polarity of the outer rail. These are all I can think of at the moment -- there may be more. But i must stress that this is a most valuable and worthwhile book. I recommend it to all Flyer operators in the highest possible terms. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3256	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Barker's AF repair manual

Jarcho wrote: > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > Tom Barker's AF repair manual and his columns in S Gaugian were a > tremendous contribution to what we do -- make no mistake about that! He is > quite a guy and I mean him no disrespect. His written work certainly > helped me and many other guys get started again. > > However, his book is riddled with errors and some of his material has > become dated. > > 2. Steam loco drive wheels should not be repaired with epoxy. It will not > hold over time and just makes a mess. The proper adhesive to use is slow > acting ACC. I have used both ACC and epoxy with good results. Is it the type of epoxy? > 4. I believe the diagram for installing a diode bridge in a loco for DC > operation has an error in it. Not sure about this since I don't use DC. I have wired for DC operation as shown and the diagram works fine. I think if any errors crept in it may be, in reports I recall, that some ACG engines have the plugs wired differently than he shows. > 6. A Baldwin diesel field should be rewound with #27 wire, not #26, and > the armature should be rewound with #30. > 7. It's not the length of wire that's important in rewinding, but the > number of turns. Whats the difference in mils between #26 and #27? -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3257	From: Scott Holm	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: magnet wire

--- Jarcho <jarcho@...> wrote: > Does anybody know of a source for magnet wire AWG sizes > #24,#27,#28,#29,#32,etc, preferably in small or medium sized spoools Allied Electronics has 1Lb spools of all these sizes for about $30 each. They are at http://www.allied.avnet.com/ I've never ordered from them and their web site crashes my computer at work. I have fax ordered 1/2 LB spools of 32 and 34 for about $12 each from Unicorn Electronics at http://unicornelex.com/index.html They arrived 2 days later. The 34 gauge was perfect for rewinding a rocket sled armature. They don't have the odd sizes though. I also found Antique Electronic Supply at http://www.tubesandmore.com/ which has small spools at $3.50 each of 21,22,24,28,32,36 and 40 gauge. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3258	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: What about adding Flyer-type whistle and bell?

Was there a Flyer electronic bell? The only AF bell I know of is the mechanical one on my 234 C&O GP7 diesel. Scott Holm wrote: > > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > Some of the Flyer engines had a whistle and a bell. How can these be "duplicated" in an engine > that has neither? Can you just add a speaker (any specific type?) and capacitor and use the buzzer > whistle controller for the whistle? Is there anything to make it sound more like a steam whistle > than an electronic horn? And what about the bell? What is it? How is it activated? I understand > that with the electronic versions the bell is activated by a DC signal superimposed on the AC > power that is of the reverse polarity of the DC signal used to activate the whistle, but I thought > this DC signal concept was only used in Flyer for the 314AW. > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Where do some of the Internet's largest email lists reside? > http://www.onelist.com > At ONElist - the most scalable and reliable service on the Internet. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3259	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Large Scale Train Show

HAY!!!! what about the west coast like Portland Or. Chris >From: John Foley <foley164@...> > >Hi Folks > The Train show Don Thompson was talking about in NJ >a while back has a web site at, > > http://www.trainshow.largescale.com/index.html > > Check it out. > > John > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Give back to your community through "Grow to Give." >http://www.ONElist.com >See homepage for details. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3260	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Track

Does any one out there have exsperance with this type of track and what about the brass I happen to like nickel plate. also will AF work ok with this track I have one AF GP 7 I have heard that I will have to change the truck and the AS motor to a DC motor or would this be better in the long run for me. I have been out of scale a long time went to Ho becouse of the acceress but if this has change in reseant years I will come back to S-Scale and get rid of the HO, I have loved S-scale since I was 6 and I'm 42 now so I been gone a long time Chris American Models sectional and flex track and switches with hand throws or electrically powered. Just like oversize HO track, looks and performs great. You probably want to add cork or homosote roadbed. A little more expensive than Gargraves but grade A appearance. Check with AM at: http://www.americanmodels.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3261	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: magnet wire

The diameter of #26 wire is .01594". Diameter of #27 wire is .01420". I believe this is exclusive of enamel coating. Feet per ohm: #26: 24.50; #27:19.43. So in an A.F. diesel motor field of about 2 ohms it's a difference of about 10 feet of wire. This is significant. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3262	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Large Scale Train Show

Dear Chris, Next years (2000) NASG/NMRA/TTOS national conventions are all in California. The NASG will be joining the NMRA in San Jose and the TTOS will have their bash in the Queen Mary at Long Beach. We are planning on attending both. The TCA's is in Grand Rapids, MI -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3263	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 250

I have several of the long K-Line pieces on my layout mated to the wide radius curve. It makes for smooth running but like Tom says The pins in mine are larger than the receiving end of flyer track and it does cause some puffing and grunting to get together. Then if you change track plans the holes in the flyer track have become larger and other flyer track is a bit sloppy. no biggie but it takes time to tune it all up... Steve Blackburn RMHR Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3264	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Paul Yorke's web site

My computer took a huge crash and i am now trying to retrieve paul yorkes web site. Could someone out there please give me the web site address? thanks, Mike S. Tujunga, Ca.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3265	From: noramz@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: AF chuff rate

Interesting to see the recent discussions about chuff rate of AF steamers. I have been trying to figure out for years how to increase the choo-choo rate of my engines without having to run them at break neck speeds. I have had a few ideas, but the only one that seems workable to me is to change the gearing. I'm curious to know what Doug Peck found inside that engine he has that someone converted to "double time". Well, a few months ago I decided to jump in and see what I could come up with. I looked in my junk box and found two gears that meshed, one with 22 teeth and another with 12 teeth. I put them together, made a mold, then made copies with Alumilite. Using two of these together gives me a ratio of about 3.4 chuffs per wheel revolution, if my figuring is correct (I was aiming for a 4/1 ratio but these were the only gears I had that would work together). Then, since I didn't want to ruin my original chassis by cutting it to make room for more gears and I had no other scrap chassis at the moment, I scratch-built a new chassis. So far, so good. I have installed the original AF motor with an adapted mount and have had the smoke unit chuffing. I've had it operating for only a few minutes so far and the Alumilite gear shows no signs of damage being driven by the steel worm. But I wonder how it will hold up over a long period of time. I expect to have it completed and on the track within the next few weeks. Hopefully, it will be a grand success. I will let you know how it turns out. Anybody out there have any other ideas? I think it would be great if someone could produce a gear kit that would just fit right in the original chassis after a little bit of cutting to make room for the extra gears (if you don't mind altering your original). Norman Maunz Cresent City S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3266	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Large Scale Train Show

Hmm, so do you know the way to San Jose?? I hear there's lots of friends there..... Actually, this is kinda exciting news, I may be able to go!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3267	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: Track

Chris, Too many questions!! AC or DC, depends on what you like. Some of are die-hard AC fans, some are DC. With AC you get to work on reverse units and other fun stuff! With DC you can change directions with the flick of a switch. I have far too many AC locos right now to think about DC, although I've considered it -- but not for long! The track shouldn't care which you use. NS is better than brass as it corrodes less. Then there's steel and stainless steel, just to confuse you some more! Do what give you happiness, have fun!!--that's what the trains are all about!!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3268	From: David Dewey	Date: 5/27/1999
Subject: Re: magnet wire

Hi all, Well, I found my coil of 28 gauge, and the company is Wiretronic Inc. they have a web page: http://wiretron.com/ And on their Magnet wire page they describe "magnet wire"; "What is Magnet Wire? The term "magnet wire" is used to describe solid conductor wire (usually copper), insulated with a polymer based film. The films are designed to provide a uniform dielectric coating while taking up as little space as possible. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- In selecting & specifying a magnet wire, there are several areas of concern: 1. Size or Diameter 2. Insulation Thermal Class 3. Insulation Build or Thickness 4. Additional Characteristics such as color or addition of bondable coating ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Conductors: Although copper is the primary conductor material due to its superior conductivity & relatively low cost, other metals & alloys may be utilized. ------------------------------------------------------------------------Ther mal Classes: There are a variety of film insulations available for magnet wire offering different characteristics. The primary classification factor for magnet wire is "Thermal Class." Thermal class is the recommended maximum continuous operating temperature for the insulation. Standard thermal classes range from 105 degrees Celsius up to 220 degrees Celsius. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Insulation Builds: Insulation "build" refers to the thickness or the amount of insulation applied. The industry standard builds are as follows: SINGLE HEAVY (Sometimes called "double") TRIPLE QUAD OR QUADRUPLE Note: SINGLE & HEAVY are the most common. NEMA (National Electrical Mfrs Association) publishes a set of standards for magnet wire (NEMA MW 1000) which includes dimensional values for the various sizes & builds. Our *WireTronic Wire Info Software* has a dimensional data section based on the NEMA standards." Interesting stuff, huh?? And they have nichrome wire for smoke unit projects! I still have to dig through the garage to see what I have in spacecraft wire, there's two large coils out there, with Tom's info, I can measure them and see what I have! I do need to make this clear: I'm no expert on rewinding, I 've done a few, but I'm still learning lots!! Tom's comment on number of windings v/s length has me curious!! I've just measured wire length and replicated it, as well as the ohm readings when done. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3269	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 251

I found magnet wire at Mouser. They have their catalog on line (fast and complete). They also have the exact size speaker for the PA PB horns. I think the address is simply mouser.com with the usual prefixes. --- Nick Colleran >Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:30:15 -0400 (EDT) > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) >Subject: magnet wire > >Does anybody know of a source for magnet wire AWG sizes >#24,#27,#28,#29,#32,etc, preferably in small or medium sized spoools? Is >there a slot car parts supplier or something like that out there? Tom >Jarcho >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3270	From: Richard.Spritz@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 251

Message: 3 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:30:15 -0400 (EDT) From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) Subject: magnet wire Does anybody know of a source for magnet wire AWG sizes #24,#27,#28,#29,#32,etc, preferably in small or medium sized spoools? Is there a slot car parts supplier or something like that out there? Tom Jarcho Tom, Although Allied Electronics was bought by Radio Shack years ago, and then Radio Shack by Tandy Corp., Allied Electronics still exists and still issues the huge electronics parts catalog with everything you can imagine, just as they did years ago, although now they only sell to companies, not to private individuals. Perhaps you can order through work? Rich Spritz

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3271	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: magnet wire

Jarcjo, You can get if from Allied Electronics. Belden Solderable Magnet Wire - Beldsol(R) Stock# Mfr's# AWG Length Each 214-3582 8054 28 1020ft 18.77 214-3584 8055 30 1615 20.40 214-3586 8056 32 2515 22.64 Belden has a hight temp (180C) version called Thermaleze for more then 2x the cost. Dearborn Type SP Class A 105C 293-0130 27SP 27 1605 29.78 293-0140 32SP 32 5086 45.71 Type HPT Class F 155C 293-0180 27HPT 27 1577 29.02 293-0190 32HPT 32 4953 48.87 Take your pick! The number for allied is: 1-800-433-5700 Also: www.allied.avnet.com The data above came from their latest (#990) catalog. Good luck, kbt ----------- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 12:18:55 -0400 (EDT) From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) Subject: magnet wire Radio Shack only has #22, #26, and #30 magnet wire. Those are not what I'm looking for. Especially need #27 and #32. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3272	From: David Horn	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: 772 tube

Should the "blockage" in a 772 bubble tube that causes the bubbling be a solid plug or a granular mass? I bought a 772 that bubbles, but quits once in awhile for about 5 seconds then starts up again. The blockage at the bottom of the tube is collection of "sand" that precipitates to the bottom, but if I remember correctly we used to have short bubbler candle Christmas lights each with a solid glass plug in their tubes.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3273	From: David Horn	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: barrel comm steamers

Does anyone know a good source for parts diagrams for the 21085 and other late model steamers that have the drum style commutator armatures? My K-line Handbook references the same pages as their flat-face commutator cousins. Also, I read where the 21130 was made with a drum commutator motor that doesn't require removal of the reverse unit to change brushes. Cool. What was different about it? What other engine(s) got the same design and benefit? Where are good diagrams for this? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3274	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: The X-29's are a GO !!!

Dear Fellow S Scalers, I am very proud to announce that we have reached an agreement with our investors and the Pennsy S Models PRR X-29 boxcars project is a definite GO !!! We are sending the deposit to start the project to our builder shortly. The project is limited to 120 cars of which 90 are already sold. We expect delivery in late 1999 or early 2000. The PRR started building X-29s in masse in 1924 and continued in many rebuilding programs until the mid-1950s. As of January 1, 1953, there were over 29,000 cars still in active service. If your favorite railroad had 2 rails, X-29s ran on them. This car will have details never offered on an X-29 model in any scale. It will have prototypical draft gear and the correct patch panel along the bottom of the car side. The tentative list price is $250.00 with a price discount starting at just 3 cars. Large quantity discounts are available. We are offering a three part payment plan to help you get the cars you want. We will have our website up by the end of June where you can track our progress and place your orders. Act now to place you order and reserve what may be the best brass model made in S Scale. We need your non-refundable * $100.00 per car deposit by July 1, 1999 A flyer with all of the car options and paint schemes is being prepared. * all deposits will be refunded in full on the VERY remote chance that the project in not completed. Please contact us at: Pennsy S Models P.O. Box 5252 Deptford N.J. 08096 pennsysmodels@... <mailto:pennsysmodels@...> or call Bill Lane at (609) 848-5133 the area code is changing to 856 soon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3275	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: magnet wire

, to all I have 2 spools approx 15lbs will donate all or in requested lengtns. dont know exact gauge, but looks like pa disel field size. Also 2 sizes avail. Mike S. anormal1@.... sase will get sample If you want its free. I' send the whole spool to any one who will share with others I also have relays and misc electronic parts to give away. you must pay postage Mike S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3276	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: 772 tube

In a message dated 5/28/99 10:38:41 AM, David_Horn@... writes: << Should the "blockage" in a 772 bubble tube that causes the bubbling be a solid plug or a granular mass? >> Granular. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3277	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: 772 tube

Dave, they all contain sand.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3278	From: Bill Lane	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: FW: The X-29's are a GO !!!

-----Original Message----- From: Bill Lane Sent: Friday, May 28, 1999 1:47 PM To: 'proto64@onelist.com'; 's-trains@onelist.com'; 'pennsysmodels@...'; 'dgbrown109@...'; 'rrbaron1@...'; 'rrdart@...'; 'inthrvster@...'; 'rmmdo@...'; 'stacktalk@...' Subject: The X-29's are a GO !!! Dear Fellow S Scalers, I am very proud to announce that we have reached an agreement with our investors and the Pennsy S Models PRR X-29 boxcars project is a definite GO !!! We are sending the deposit to start the project to our builder shortly. The project is limited to 120 cars of which 90 are already sold. We expect delivery in late 1999 or early 2000. The PRR started building X-29s in masse in 1924 and continued in many rebuilding programs until the mid-1950s. As of January 1, 1953, there were over 29,000 cars still in active service. If your favorite railroad had 2 rails, X-29s ran on them. This car will have details never offered on an X-29 model in any scale. It will have prototypical draft gear and the correct patch panel along the bottom of the car side. The tentative list price is $250.00 with a price discount starting at just 3 cars. Large quantity discounts are available. We are offering a three part payment plan to help you get the cars you want. We will have our website up by the end of June where you can track our progress and place your orders. Act now to place you order and reserve what may be the best brass model made in S Scale. We need your non-refundable * $100.00 per car deposit by July 1, 1999 A flyer with all of the car options and paint schemes is being prepared. * all deposits will be refunded in full on the VERY remote chance that the project in not completed. Please contact us at: Pennsy S Models P.O. Box 5252 Deptford N.J. 08096 pennsysmodels@... <mailto:pennsysmodels@...> or call Bill Lane at (609) 848-5133 the area code is changing to 856 soon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3279	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: magnet wire

A big thank you to everyone who pitched in with info about magnet wire. Have so many choices now that some major thinking is required. S-list is wonderful. Does anyone know if single or double (heavy) insulation is required for Flyer motor rewinding? I measure wire diameter or gauge with a tool called a wire gauge. It has slits of the various diameter sizes; you just find which is the smallest slit into which the wire fits. Since these are for bare wire sizes, a piece of #26 enameled wire will fit into the #25 slit but not the #26 one. The gauge goes form #0 to #36. It is round and looks a little like a shuriken, though it has no sharp edges. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3280	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: 5 digit steam loco diagram

David H: the only factory drawing I have ever seen of a 5 digit steam loco motor is contained in the conversion sheet that was issued for the 343/346 reverse unit. This shows how to convert these locos to the more common 2-step reverse unit and shows all the motor parts, except that there were at least three and probably more different armatures and fields used. This conversion is the subject of my next Roundhouse -- I did it recently and wrote about it. The column should have a reprint of the service sheet as an illustration. It is also in the K-line book under the 343 loco. If there are any other sheets for 5 digit steam locos I would love to see them. Brushes and springs can be changed in all these motors without removing the reverse units. You loosen the two lower screws, and can then slide out the brush tubes. The service sheet recommends bending back the tabs on the brush tubes to remove the brushes and springs, but this is not a good idea in this day and age. After a few times, the ends will break off, and they don't make 'em any more. Also, it is a good idea to unsolder the 'hot' lead from the reverse unit coil to the left brush tube because the wire is so fragile that it will probably break while you are changing the brushes. There is not much in the way of diagrams of 5 digit diesels either. They were wired several different ways. Recently serviced a double motor Alco PA in which, instead of the two armatures and two fields being paired , the armature from one motor was paired with the field from the other and vice versa. This had the result of less wires needing to be soldered to the tiny tabs on the reverse unit. The Mopacs and 5 digit Santa Fe's were not wired this way. Live and learn. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3281	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: apples to oranges & forbidden fruit

Along with the meat-and-potatoes technical topics discussed here in the past few days, I'd like to toss in a bit of spice-for-thought: Question 1: Compared to Lionel, what are the best things about American Flyer? Two rail versus three track is the obvious one, of course. But what else? And question 2: What Lionel rolling stock or accessory do you wish A. C. Gilbert had invented/made instead? For example, do you look with lust and envy upon Lionel's FM Trainmaster and wish Gilbert had produced it in S instead? Paul Schneider, staring enviously at the Lionel Trainmaster on the cover of this month's CTT. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3282	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Another source of magnet wire

Here's another source for magnet wire of the following sizes in small batches. You may also be intrigued by some the ham radio kits Dan's offers. (BTW: I have no association with his company, but he is well known and respected in low-power Amateur Radio circles). Here goes: 25 Foot Lengths of Magnet Wire Priced at 25 Feet for $1.00 The following sizes are available:#20 25' for $1.00 #22 25' for $1.00 #24 25' for $1.00 #26 25' for $1.00 #28 25' for $1.00 #30 25' for $1.00 #31 25' for $1.00 #32 25' for $1.00 It's called Dan's Small Parts at http://www.fix.net/dans.html Dan's Small Parts and Kits Box 3634 Missoula, Montana 59806-3634 Phone or Fax 406 258 2782 Regards to all for a terrific holiday weekend, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3283	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: apples to oranges & forbidden fruit

Compared to Lionel, I like the fact that Flyer are pretty good scale models, not compressed like Lionel. A Lionel accessory I wish Gilbert had made was the double crossing gate. (I think Lionel had one) "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Along with the meat-and-potatoes technical topics > discussed here in the past few days, I'd like to toss > in a bit of spice-for-thought: > > Question 1: Compared to Lionel, what are the best > things about American Flyer? Two rail versus three > track is the obvious one, of course. But what else? > > And question 2: What Lionel rolling stock or accessory > do you wish A. C. Gilbert had invented/made instead? > For example, do you look with lust and envy upon > Lionel's FM Trainmaster and wish Gilbert had produced > it in S instead? > > Paul Schneider, staring enviously at the Lionel > Trainmaster on the cover of this month's CTT. > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3284	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: apples to oranges & forbidden fruit

1.) Total realism. Smooth & quiet accessories, Smooth and quiet operating cars. Perfect size. Some of the BEST operating cars in the world. A bigger selection of operating cars. For example the Mail Car the coolest operating car ever made, The Operating Box car that did something, not just pop open a door, The Auto Unloading cars, Operating Brakeman Box cars, Operating Brakeman Cabooses, thats just a few. 2.) The only thing Lionel made that AF did not thats of any value are the Culvert Loader/Unloaders. Otherwise, theres not much Lionel made that Flyer didn't, and none of that is significant such as a lame Barrel Loader, and the Operating Switch Tower that come to mind. Most of their rolling stock was fairly well matched off by AF, and many of the opposing accessories like the Lumber Mill are patheticly loud, and unrealistic, the operating cars and signals are even more lame. You just can't beat a quality well built product, that would be an AF product......

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3285	From: Don Abrams	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Magnet Wire Update

Scott, http://www.allied.avnet.com/ works fine on my home PC. Thanks for the great link. Found the magnet wire in odd sizes as well as even in section 7, Pg. 392. There's even 2 types to choose from with different thermal ratings (and slightly different diameters. So Tom, does this look like a good source of wire for Flyer solenoid and motor rewinding? Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3286	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 251

I doubt that you will be able to find 27 and 29 AWG. Odd numbered guages are rather unusual. For the others, try Mouser Electronics 1-800-346-6873. They have the wire in one pound spools. The length of wire in a pound varies with guage, of course. A pound of 24 AWG is about 700 ft. Here are the catalog numbers and prices for the sizes they carry: AWG 24 501-MW24H-1lb $10.42 AWG26 501-MW26H-1lb $11.16 AWG28 501-MW28H-1lb $12.32 I've always had excellent service form Mouser. They are a very complete electronic distributer that doesn't mind also dealing with hobbiests. They have no minimum order and ship promptly. If you have need of anything in the way of electronic components, their catalog is a handy reference. Have fun. Vic Bereskin >Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:30:15 -0400 (EDT) > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) >Subject: magnet wire > >Does anybody know of a source for magnet wire AWG sizes >#24,#27,#28,#29,#32,etc, preferably in small or medium sized spoools? Is >there a slot car parts supplier or something like that out there? Tom >Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3287	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: Several Topics

The brass alloy in AM flextrack seems not to tarnish and corrode like "normal" brass, so don't be afraid of it, however it does not look as good as NS. Ron has done a special run of his track in NS when he has enough orders. Last time I ordered, the minimum was 100 sections. If you want a bunch, it is not too hard to find enough other people to fill the minimum. If you only want a small amount, such as enough to build an S-MOD module, ask him if he has some in stock. His e-mail address should be on his ads in magazines, or at the American Models website. The May '99 Smithsonian magazine has a great article on A. C. Gilbert and his science toys, especially highlighting the Erector sets. They also briefly mention his "scale model train" products. Regarding wire, connectors, switches, etc. ALWAYS check your local neighborhood surplus electronics store before going to Radio Shack. You can save a bundle. "Every" city has one. I THINK that this is Paul's current website address. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ If not, try http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html for a Link to Paul's site. Kay-BEE now has Mint Editions priced at 3 for $5!!!!!! I picked up some '55 Chev sedans, and a '58 Chev convertible tonite. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3288	From: Monte Miller	Date: 5/28/1999
Subject: 917, 919 hopper

This is my first try with the "S" gauge network so bare with me. Just got back into S last fall and am enjoying it a lot. I need a body for a #917 CB&Q Hopper Dump Car. I have a #919 and the 917 is the same but with the older stamped style trucks. My 917 is in great condition in every other way, KC'ers, absolutely no rust, all steps in place, brake wheel is there and the solenoid works perfectly. The side door is missing along with the gear that opens the door when the bed is elevated. I hate to see this action car go on the display only shelf. Any ideas? Or might just someone have a body on a 917 or 919 which is in great shape but the chassis is shot. Many thanks, Monte Miller, Lawrence, KS.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3289	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: 919 sides; Banana reefers

<<I have a #919 and the 917 is the same but with the older stamped style trucks. My 917 is in great condition in every other way, KC'ers, absolutely no rust, all steps in place, brake wheel is there and the solenoid works perfectly. The side door is missing along with the gear that opens the door when the bed is elevated.>> (1) The gear and its mounting screw are available, but the door is not. It is one of the repro parts that I am considering having made however. There's a fair number of requests that come through for the piece. The entire body, I'm not so sure about....but the "flap door", yes. Will keep you informed if it materializes. (2) BTW, we just took delivery of the second run of URTX "banana reefers" (first run was very limited; sold out very fast!) ....the latest in our line of plastic wood-sided reefers. We'll have it pictured on the website soon (next week???) Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3290	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: flyer/flyonel goodies

tough question.i always liked my mom's godson's lionel coaling facility-i think that i prefer it to the Gilbert , but i can't really comment, never owned either.the whistle, of course, is a hands-down winner.flyer has superior smoke,of course-my brand L part of the collection is slowly getting converted to liquid smoke. Gilbert's e-units are MUCH easier to service. the wider range of engines Lionel had/ has is another biggie-I must say that engine choices, added to my love for REAL tinplate, influenced my branching into 3 rail.As for today's Flyonel,the railsounds is the best thing in S - and it's a shame that RS2 hasn't-and likely won't - be in a PA or GP. Ditto CommandControl-i am VERY favorably impressed by it, and by the total walk-around capability it offers-lash-ups, throwing switches, programming routes- it is truly a marvel,and SO EASY to set up and use. Okay-here's the biggie- and it's true- I HAVE HAD NO PROBLEMS WITH EITHER MY LTI FLYER OR MY NEW LIONEL ENGINES. I have 6 Command equipped engines, 5 Flyonel engines(two having RailSounds B units) and everything worked as it should, right out of the box. The LTI and Lionel Corp paintwork is superb-my only complaint is that they too often use colored plastic instead of paint on the rolling stock.BTW, I have 49 A.C. Gilbert engines, and they ,without exception, run like watches- as do my 3, 3/16 0 gauge flyer engines, and my 4 Chicago Flyers. Any problems(to date ) that I've experienced with my electric trains 0, S and standard, with the oldest an Ives 0 ga. set from about 1910, stemmed entirely from age/neglect. I read the TCA postings, so I know that I'm in the minority-but i'd really love to see Lionel put more into S.-jihn marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3291	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: New old Winross trucks

Hi All, If you're looking for S scale semi trucks for a transition-era layout, Winross is reissuing some of its 1960s and '70s models as its "Nostalgia Line." To take a look at the new Winross nostalgia offering, go to: http://www.winross.com/wbm.html. This month's offering is a White conventional with a Texaco tanker trailer! I've only ordered ONE so far but I may need a couple more for the Texaco distributor on my layout. -- Keith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3292	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: SILVER STREAK 480?

JUST PICKED UP A 480 SILVER STREAK. WHEN I OPENED IT IT HAD A SPEAKER AND RESISTORS. ANY ONE KNOW ABOUT THIS MODEL # AND WHAT IT DOES. HOW TO ACTIVIATE SOUNDS ETC? WILL LINONEL SOUND BUTTON WORK? THANKS MIKE S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3293	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Fwd: [S-Trains] SILVER STREAK 480?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3294	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: silver streak 405 Not479 MY MISTAKE

oops IT IS A 405 MADE IN 1952 SORRY MIKE S. AS BAD AS MY TYPING

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3295	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Re: SILVER STREAK 480?

AHhhhhh, now things are becoming more clear. Mike, the date of 1952 clarifies wheither you made a typo in the name and had the number right, or the number wrong and the name right in your original post. All the original Silver Flash equipment that Gilbert made was dated 1953 thru 1956 only. The Silver Streak is a number 405, not the 480, and will be chrome finished with a link coupler. It was only made in 1952 which would make your date correct. The Silver Streak has only the Air Chime Whistle Unit, no Roar. The Whistle is simply some simple electronics for tone, hooked up to a mechanical speaker unit. It is operated with the Air Chime Whistle Control, which is, as I said before very common and easy to find. It is typical for the contacts in the tube to be dirty therefore it will not work. You or someone will need to cut the tube open and clean and test the contacts to get it working again. If you run the loco and get some faint static sounds occasionally, the units in the loco is probably good. Any parts vendor may be able to supply the control. Leventon's, Port Lines, or Gardinia. They are also readily available at most shows, and on some of the on line auctions. Make sure you get a tube with the button assembly. Typically they run between $15 and $20. Any one of the great folks on here can help with how to wire it up once you get a good working one. As for the value of the loco, a LOT depends on the condition of the finish. Truely excellent (near perfect) chrome, or better, brings a decent premium. Prices can range from about $100 for a real poor one, to $300 for a nice one, with a prfect chrome one bringing a good premium. The side frames can be found if you did not have one, or your spare is not correct. Always glad to help....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3296	From: JFR040436@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: forbidden fruit

The one thing Lionel had that I wish Gilbert had made is the 45 dig. crossing. Also they had a better working magnet crane, it would do more. They also had a nice lift bridge.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3297	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: Silver Streak

Thanks to all of you who responded to my query. Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3298	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/29/1999
Subject: chrome for silver streak

Awhile back the topic was where to get plastic cromed. My queston is where can Iget this done? Did the 405 come chromed or silver painted? THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT MIKE S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3299	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: MP PA/PA

I ran across a 21920 at a local hobby store. What is the current value of Ex+ condition. Robert E. Yablonski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3300	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Plastice filler

Some time ago someone mentioned a plastice filler called D****** Green. What is the correct name and where does one find it? John Griffin RxMan46321@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3301	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Re: chrome for silver streak

Mike, the 405 always came chromed, some duller than others, but never satin painted. Its well worth your while to have it professionally stripped and rechromed. Contact Doug at PORTLINES@..., he provides the service. His fees and other chroming posts were just on this list not long ago. Its a goregeous loco in a bright new chrome finish with new decals. Good luck... Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3302	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Re: Plastice filler

It's called Squadron Green Putty and its available at just about any hobby ship that sells models. Also, Walthers carries the stuff (http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo?part_no=680-9055) and as always; "Your dealer can backorder it from Walthers." Seriously, the Walthers web site say it's in stock and you can order it through Walther's Terminal Hobby Shop with a credit card by calling 1-800-4TRAINS. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle RxMan46321@... wrote: > > From: RxMan46321@... > > Some time ago someone mentioned a plastice filler called D****** Green. What > is the correct name and where does one find it? > > John Griffin > RxMan46321@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? > http://www.onelist.com > Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3303	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Sinclair logo

I recently purchased the Colber manufactured AF water and aircraft beacon. On the boxes is a illustration of an oil field, with tank cars clearly labeled "Sinclair." I have never seen an AF Sinclair car. Does anyone know the history of this? Why Sinclair and not Gulf or Shell on the box? -Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3304	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Re: Plastice filler

The putty is called Squadron Green, it also comes in white, manufactured by Squadron Productd, Carrollton, Texas. Can be found in any hobby/models shop that carries plastic models(air planes, military vehicles, etc.). It is a great product, just follow the direction and you can't go wrong. Tom Davis, charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3305	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Re: Sinclair logo

If the boxes were designed early enough, Sinclair did indeed appear on Gilbert tank cars... in HO as early as 1938 on thru to 1950 production. Shell appeared in the S line starting in 1946, and the HO line in 1947. The Gulf did not appear until 1951 in the S line, and 1955 in the HO line. They also used Texaco in the HO line during the same period the Sinclair was made. The Gulf would have clearly been used too late to appear on the earlier blue & yellow boxes. One could assume that Gilbert may have started designing boxes for post war items before 1946, therefore not giving the Shell the opportunity to be used. Why the Texaco was not used would be a good question, but maybe they didn't want to pay Gilbert to advertise for them where Sinclair did.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3306	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Colber box art w/Sinclair tanker

HHHMMMMMMMM-maybe they were anticipating MTH's Sinclair animated gas station????????(LOL!)-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3307	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 5/30/1999
Subject: Re: Colber box art w/Sinclair tanker

If the boxes were designed early enough, Sinclair did indeed appear on Gilbert tank cars... in HO as early as 1938 on thru to 1950 production. Shell appeared in the S line starting in 1946, and the HO line in 1947. The Gulf did not appear until 1951 in the S line, and 1955 in the HO line. They also used Texaco in the HO line during the same period the Sinclair was made. The Gulf would have clearly been used too late to appear on the earlier blue & yellow boxes. One could assume that Gilbert may have started designing boxes for post war items before 1946, therefore not giving the Shell the opportunity to be used. Why the Texaco was not used would be a good question, but maybe they didn't want to pay Gilbert to advertise for them where Sinclair did.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3308	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Re: Wood-sided reefers

After mentioning the availability of the new Banana reefer on SMail, I've had a number of inquiries re: other available roadnames in our Crown reefers, so here's a current summary: S-2001; SWIFT (red w/ white lettering)--LIMITED. Almost sold-out. Will not be re-run S-4900; WP ICE SERVICE (silver w/ red & black lettering)-- I believe I only have one or two left. Will not be re-run. S-8002; HOODS MILK (dark green; multi-color print)---This car is SO popular we'll probably keep running it forever! We've run nearly 1000 of them now! S-9003; STROHS BEER; red-orange, w/ black, gold, and white print) S-8004; A&P FOODS MILK CAR; (dark green w/ multicolor print)--another VERY popular car! S-9505; CLICQUOT ("klee-coe") CLUB BEVERAGES; yellow with multi-color print. S-3009; CENTRAL VERMONT MILK; Silver with green & black print....LIMITED; car will not be re-run. S-9050; POST ROAD ALE; jade green & silver; with multi-color stagecoach logo and print. S-7002; WEST INDIA FRUIT & STEAMSHIP CO; mustard yellow, w/ B&W print. S-____; Pacific Fruit Express (UP/SP version); dark orange sides; tuscan roof. S-____; URTX FRUIT DISPATCH CO. "BANANA REEFER"; yellow sides; tuscan roof; multicolor print and logo. Coming in late-June: SCHLITZ BEER. All cars are $36.95 each, or any three for $105. Add $4 shipping per order. Available with either scale or highrail trucks. All are RTR. Color images of all cars (except URTX) are available on our website. URTX will be added soon. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3309	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Trip to S.C.

I am going to Savannah, GA., & then on to Charleston, S.C. Any one know of good locations for post war A.F.? I will not be leaving until July, but would like to plan ahead in case there are any good hobby shops, etc., to visit. Thanks! Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3310	From: Neil Trump	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Ramblings from over the pond

Hello all, Just returned from my annual 2 day show in Ilkley, Yorkshire exhibiting some of my Flyer equipment amongst lots of L people and their equipment (some of them DO realise the error of their ways!!). This year I had an additional helper, Rick Lasher, who is based over here serving in the forces. Rick also collects/operates Flyer. Amongst some of the items Rick came with was a boxed sawmill. On opening the box I discovered that this was a NIB original that had never been assembled before. It took me about half an hour to string and set up the carrier correctly to pick up the planks. With a total of about 15 hours running the only casualty was a broken knuckle coupler. Other years I've had loco's go down on me, so all those I took with me as backup were not needed. The best part of these shows is watching the kids faces glued to the steamers smoking and watching coal, barrel and log loaders operating. While at the show I managed to purchase a 799 Union station and two terminal sheds, all with original boxes for �35 ($55). Condition wise they all grade out between vg to vg+. Shows that bargains can still be found. Have to wait now until next year to see what else I can pick up. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3311	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Good Lionel stuff that I wish A.C. Gilbert had made.

Hello there, First, I have been off line for so long (because of a computer failure) that I have lost touch with my 'S' Gauge friends. Now that I'm back I have a lot of back reading to digest. I saw something interesting in the Digest: the question of what was made by Lionel that I wish had been made (patented) by A.C. Gilbert. Actually tere were two things. Te first on my list would be the Pennsylvania Railroad's GG-1 electric locomotives. I am particularly drawn to the Tuscan red beauties with gold lettering and pinstriping. I have often dreamed of owning one of these in 'S' gauge. The second would be the whistle. I know that the 314AW had a Lionel type whistle on board. (One of my neighbors has one of these beasts.) But it would have been nice to have one. I have three locomotives with the "air-chime" whistles and could never get them to work. I do own one Lionel 'O' Gauge train. (CURSES!) It is the PRR S1 6-8-6 steam turbine. Its whistle works very well. It's good to be back. W. Thomas Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3312	From: J. Row	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Multi List?

Re: Separate lists for all the "S"ubdivisions No one asked me in particular but I perceived that the idea was put out for consideration and comment for the whole group - so here's mine. I liked Bill's comment so will not elaborate. It's sometimes discouraging to get 30 e-mails and find that 14 of them are duplicates but it's quite easy to tell which ones are duplicates and immediately delete them. The same can be done with those items that are not of particular interest to me on that day. I'm into both hi-rail and scale so both have appeal to me but my time is limited so I don't need another list to keep up with (or is it "with which to keep up"?). Let's get as much info as possible to as many people as possible and let the masses decide which to keep and which to delete immediately. MY VOTE? KISS (Keep It Simple Sir)! Thanks for listening! Jim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3313	From: Anormal1@aol.com	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: AF/Lionel Silver Flash

Re: 479 non-powered Silver Flash made by Lionel are they selling for less than $110.00 in other areas? In my area they are selling for $150.00 plus tax. Have I been in error as to their value? or desirability? At this point, I'm thinking of having it chromed and decaled to match my 405 Silver Streak as a dummy unit. I'm not trying to pass it off as an origional Silver Streak, but it would make up a nice set with my 630-634 passenger cars, but still leaves me with one. I would like to hear your input please. Thanks, Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3314	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: S-scale out side?

Has any one ever tried to do a gardon rail road I have a large lot here but not enough room in the house But out side its a dream come true Ihave about 50'X100' to work with plus a creek to boot Chris wb8ypo@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3315	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: New Flyer Repro Parts

Newly arrived American Flyer S gauge reproduction parts: JTR-125 Piston-type conversion kit for bellows-type smoke-in-tender unit. This kit consists of PA10772 Cylinder, PA10769 Cylinder Retainer, PA10771 Piston Lever, PA10518 Piston, and PA10520 Piston Pin Cost: $29.95 JTR-33 Crossbuck for 760 Highway Flasher (laser cut). Cost: $2.00 PA11517 GP-7 End Fence (laser cut) Cost: $2.75 XA14A214 Milk Stand Assembly (complete; painted) Cost: $20.00 Watch for more new parts. Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3316	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: S-scale out side?

Has any one ever tried to do a gardon rail road I have a large lot here but not enough room in the house But out side its a dream come true Ihave about 50'X100' to work with plus a creek to boot Chris wb8ypo@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3317	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: any lay outs in Oregon

Hi all I live in southern Oregon near Roseburg. Iwould like to know if there is any one in my area that is in S-Scale. There used to be a Train store in Cottage grove Orengon But last week I found out that its is closed and it was the only store that had S-Scale in it any way. Is there any ony on the list that is in my area? Thanks Chris wb8ypo@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3318	From: Richard Snook	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Village Depot??

Has Village Depot closed its doors?? Be a shame for "S" if that is so. :~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3319	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 5/31/1999
Subject: Re: Village Depot??

Yes it has and your right theres no shop that has S-Scale except for Portland and there is a store in coos-bay but there O gage thay have some old stuff richard whats home town for you since you know about cottage grove Chris wb8ypo@... At 01:41 PM 6/1/99 +1000, Richard Snook wrote: >From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > >Has Village Depot closed its doors?? Be a shame for "S" if that is so. >:~)) Richard > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Give back to your community through "Grow to Give." >http://www.ONElist.com >See homepage for details. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3320	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: Layouts in Oregon

Chris, I'm sorry to hear Village Depot closed. I was headed to Eugene & Portland from the San Fran Bay Area in a couple of weeks, and was planning to stop by Village Depot either on the way up or back. Guess the family will be happy they don't have to stop at a hobby shop now! Although I don't think he is on the list, Gil Hulin lives in Eugene, and he is in S scale. I believe there is an S scaler in Oakland, OR, but I don't have a name or address. I'll see what I can find out for you. Pacific Rail Shops has box car and refrigerator car kits in S, and they are located in Coos Bay. Gil Hulin's address is 3895 Colony Oaks Drive, Eugene, OR 97405, and his phone is (541) 344-6858. There is also a Fred (Doc) Schuster who has some scratch built S scale equipment (but no layout), and Fritz Gemeinhardt in Central Point (just north of Medford). Both of these gentlemen are old time S scalers, but are not very active in the hobby at this time. Hope this helps. I'll see what else I can find out for you. Lee Johnson At 8:32 PM 5/31/99, Chris & Kathleen wrote: >From: Chris & Kathleen <wb8ypo@...> > >Hi all >I live in southern Oregon near Roseburg. Iwould like to know if there is >any one >in my area that is in S-Scale. There used to be a Train store in Cottage grove >Orengon But last week I found out that its is closed and it was the only >store that had S-Scale in it any way. Is there any ony on the list that is >in my area? >Thanks > >Chris >wb8ypo@... > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >How many communities do you think join ONElist each day? >http://www.onelist.com >More than 1,000! Create yours now! >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3321	From: busy-boy	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Wishing and Hoping and Dreaming and Praying . . .

I don't really get the point of discussing what might have been if only AC Gilbert did such and so. Gilbert had his problems, the firm went through some marketing and financial mismanagement, as well as suffering through the death of the first toy train era, and so went belly-up before it could make more of a variety of toys for us. It isn't coming back. Lionel only wants to make that which has been made before, and not much of it. On the other hand, when W. Thomas Boussum says: "first on my list would be the Pennsylvania Railroad's GG-1 electric locomotives. I am particularly drawn to the Tuscan red beauties with gold lettering and pinstriping. I have often dreamed of owning one of these in 'S' gauge. The second would be the whistle" , I have to respond that I have two stunning GG-1's in S gauge, one of them a Tuscan red beauty, and both equipped with whistles and compressor sounds. I have two Pacific steamers with very nice whistles, too. I am still buying the kind of trains I loved as a kid. Thanks to AM, SHS, Downs and others, the party goes on. I don't really care that the boxes are not American Flyer imprinted. When I was a kid, I wasn't looking through the catalogs hour after hour to admire the boxes. If you want to set up an S-Trains wish list which we then can forward to Don and Ron and Russ and everyone else who has the wherewithal to make our dreams into trains, then I am with you. Forget what Flyer didn't make. Come tomorrow, they still won't have made it. Let's do this list! I vote for modern wide cab road diesels, and for deep-well container trains in multiple units and singles. (Yes, I know you can get a kit from Des Plaines. I mean RTR.) Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3322	From: David Horn	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: S GG1

Try an American Models GG1. I have the tuscan red one. Lots of fun. Only complaint is there's no external volume control for air release, horn, and motor sounds (haven't yet bought the button for the bell). I actually drilled a very small hole through which I can pass a .15" screwdriver and adjust the volume. The hole nicked the PRR keystone emblem but with 2 pre-schoolers that go to be early it's good to be able to turn down the honking sometimes. Runs smooth (but true to scale, that is, top speed is about 100 scale mph, not the "might flip off the tracks" speed some ACG AF's have). Enjoy.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3323	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: LTI UP paint problem

When I ran my UP set at the weekend I noticed that on the dummy unit that the paint had started to blister in a few places around the mouldings in the door area. I emailed Lionel to see if I can get a replacement shell and the reply I just received stated that they don't sell shells. So, how do I get a replacement body? I suppose this just reinforces everyone's views on how these people have such an arrogant attitude to the little people who purchase their products. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3324	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem

In a message dated 6/1/99 1:34:27 PM, neil_trump@... writes: << I emailed Lionel to see if I can get a replacement shell and the reply I just received stated that they don't sell shells. So, how do I get a replacement body? >> Neil, try Madison Hardware in Detroit, MI. (Sorry, don't have the number.) I remember them carrying excess production LTI AF Alco shells in the past. You could also ask a Lionel service station to try to order a new shell. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3325	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem

>I emailed Lionel to see if I can get a replacement shell and the reply I just received stated that they don't sell shells. I e-mailed American Models to ask how I could get a shell for their GP-35 and they also said they don't sell shells, so it isn't just Lionel that doesn't care.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3326	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem

I tried to get an FA shell from AM a few years go to use as a paint scheme model for the Portola RR Museum (Back when we had an FA!) and they didn't care, "We don't sell shells" My only choice would be to buy a complete locomotive. Since I didn't want to do it in HO (TOO small!) so I painted an old AF PA shell that is damaged. You would think that income is income, I don't know why big L hasn't capitalized on their potential parts business with the old AF tooling. I had the impression that AM doesn't sell shells because they only want to sell complete product, and don't want potential competition from someone custom painting shells or ?? That's just an impression--I could be wrong!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3327	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Lists

Could someone type out what lists are active, instead of doing whatever it is that leaves me a blank field in the middle of the message? I've been to Onelist.com, and looking up "hi fi" doesn't get me anywhere close to trains. For that matter, looking up "trains" at Onelist seems to point to everything but. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3328	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem

Ron claims he can't make money on shells only. He also claims that the Tin plate people would buy one complete engine and a dozen shells of different paint jobs and keep changing the bodies. Larry David Dewey wrote: > I tried to get an FA shell from AM a few years > go to use as a paint scheme model for the > Portola RR Museum (Back when we had an FA!) and > they didn't care, "We don't sell shells" My only > choice would be to buy a complete locomotive. > Since I didn't want to do it in HO (TOO small!) > so I painted an old AF PA shell that is > damaged. You would think that income is > income, I don't know why big L hasn't > capitalized on their potential parts business > with the old AF tooling. I had the impression > that AM doesn't sell shells because they only > want to sell complete product, and don't want > potential competition from someone custom > painting shells or ?? That's just an > impression--I could be wrong!!S'David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3329	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: Lists

Go to onelist address as shown below and type "s-trains" in the search box. The list comes up as #2. sscale@... wrote: > > From: sscale@... > > Could someone type out what lists are active, instead of > doing whatever it is that leaves me a blank field in the middle of > the message? I've been to Onelist.com, and looking up "hi fi" > doesn't get me anywhere close to trains. For that matter, looking up > "trains" at Onelist seems to point to everything but. > > Stan Stokrocki > sscale@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How has ONElist changed your life? > http://www.onelist.com > Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3330	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: Lists

Try "railroad" sscale@... wrote: > From: sscale@... > > Could someone type out what lists are active, instead of > doing whatever it is that leaves me a blank field in the middle of > the message? I've been to Onelist.com, and looking up "hi fi" > doesn't get me anywhere close to trains. For that matter, looking up > "trains" at Onelist seems to point to everything but. > > Stan Stokrocki > sscale@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How has ONElist changed your life? > http://www.onelist.com > Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3331	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: All [S-Trains] Lists

Stan, There is no Hi-Fi:64 list yet and by the sentiments I'm getting there won't be one. So far the votes are about 3 to 1 to get this all back down to one list -- the S-trains list. I'll leave the P:64 list active for Proto:64 standards-specific posts only but EVERYTHING else should go to S-trains from now on to reduce multiple posts and make sure we're all benefiting from all of our collective knowledge. If the interest is there, I will keep the Hi-Fi:64 pages active so us anal retentive folks can share our work and ideas. Just send anything you want to add to the Hi-Fi:64 pages to the webmaster listed on the site at: http://home.worldnet.att.net/~keith.thompson2/HIFI/ Thanks -- Keith Thompson in Seattle. sscale@... wrote: > Could someone type out what lists are active, instead of > doing whatever it is that leaves me a blank field in the middle of > the message? I've been to Onelist.com, and looking up "hi fi" > doesn't get me anywhere close to trains. For that matter, looking up > "trains" at Onelist seems to point to everything but. > > Stan Stokrocki > sscale@... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3332	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: No HiFI

Damm ..will have to put my railroad sounds records away again!!! :~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3333	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: No HiFI

What's a "Record" ????? I'm just kidding!!!! (But a lot of today's kids don't know them!) I suppose yours are all 45s? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3334	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: No HiFI

ROFL!!! I guess you don't live on the CD side of the tracks?! -- Keith Richard Snook wrote: > > Damm ..will have to put my railroad sounds records away again!!! :~)) > Richard > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3335	From: Anormal1@aol.com	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: Hi Fi

So what is Boxcar Willie's role in this fray? The always curious, Mike S. What up Dewey?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3336	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: This message is in mono

Pardon me boys!! Is this a Chat about a new tune ???? :~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3337	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/1/1999
Subject: Re: Hi Fi

ZZZZZ....... Hmm, isn't "@" a "Hobo Sign"??? Are Talking station records Hi Fi????? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3338	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Lionel not caring

I came home one day from a trip out of town, on which I had purchased a new LTI American Flyer car. I had taken the car out of the box to look at the new car with two tractors on it. Pretty spiffy! Never had one as a kid. Had to leave the house before i could put the box away, needless to say, my German Shepard, Fritz, ate the box. Hey, he was still a pup. I was upset! I would never speak to this mutt again!!! The wife says try writing to Lionel and see if they will sell you a new box. Ok, but i'm still not talking to the mutt. I wrote lionel and asked them how much for a new box. A week later I had a box and a new label for the box at no charge!! I think they care about their customers needs. Maybe not everything we whine about fits into their "business plan". After all it is a business. And, as mom always used to tell me " the world doesn't revolve around you and those damn trains". I just wish it did! Oh well, enough rambling for this time"s"ee you all soon. Chris Burger Oh yeah, Fritz and I are speaking terms.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3339	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: E.B.T. Hoppers in Sn3

Howdy Friends FINALLY! After 17 long months of delays, the production samples of the standard and extended-side three-bay cars are on my desk. Good-looking cars! Production is starting today, and the first batch should be here around the middle of June. We put a couple of photos of the beasts on the web last night at http://www.btsrr.com/bts9102.htm Not visible in these photos are some of the neat features of the cars: hollow hoppers, internal bracing including the rails across the car near the top, coupler box integrated into the frame, and rivit detail inside the car. The kits include decals, couplers, and pre-bent grab irons. BTW... a test shot of the Sn3 Vulcan truck should be ready for review within the next few weeks! Other nifty stuff is in the works, including some On3 items, but first the Orbisonia Station in O and S must be completed..... finishing up the instructions now, and will start cutting shortly. It is really something to look into the door north of the front bay and see the staircase going to the second floor! Thanks Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3340	From: neil.trump@xx.xxx	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI paint problem

I I understand what people are saying about these companies not supplying additional shells due to the possible fact that some people may capitilise from them in other ways, but this doesn't help when you may have a genuine problem with an existing shell for whatever reason. I would be more than happy to return my old shell and pay for a replacement, keeps everyone happy. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3341	From: Dalessandro, David L TL13C	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Selling Shell's seprate, a bad idea..

I agree with the business practice of not selling Engine Shell's. It would impact the product sales to greatly, if these guys cant sell enough engines they may go out of business and we will have no resources remaining to get new products from. Honestly think about it, it is not just a hobby when you have as much product to sell as our suppliers have. If they don't make enough cash to support their families and live a nice life why would they do this? I know how some people think, they would throw a fairly cheep chaise on a cheep body, custom paint it to try to save a buck. Here is when a shell should be made available...You purchased a product, within the WARRENTY period there was a paint or real structural problem not related to our misuse, then the seller should try to repaint the shell when you send it to him. If it is beyond that and a shell is available it should be used for that repair. Usually you will see the problem very soon, once paint cures it is very rare that a problem will naturally occur. If you are not happy as I was with the lousy uneven paint quality of the Lionel UP set. Tell them right away, they did replace my shells when I sent them in, I must say the replacements were beat also which is why I sold my set and don't own one yet. Quality control is very important!! The AM UP look very nice if your looking for a nice UP set. That will be where I get my UP's this summer. They sound a lot better with the turbines reving up also!! When it comes to nice quality I am very pleased with AM, Overland Brass, RR Brass, ACG of course, S Helper, and many other venders. Lionel is beat, that's why I shy away from them unless it's a must have item. I don't get the rough finish on them either... Dave Dalessandro

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3342	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem

In a message dated 6/2/99 12:03:58 AM, ljack70117@... writes: << Ron claims he can't make money on shells only. He also claims that the Tin plate people would buy one complete engine and a dozen shells of different paint jobs and keep changing the bodies. >> If true, it just goes to show that Ron does not understand the 'tinplate mentality'. Tinplaters usually would insist upon a complete engine for each variation WHEN they become collectable. In any case, what's the harm of helping out a customer with an extra shell once in a while? Sounds to me like it would be a good business practice and good customer relations. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3343	From: Dennis Back	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: No HiFI (*REALLY* O.T.)

--- David Dewey <djdewey@...> wrote:> > What's a "Record" ????? > > I'm just kidding!!!! (But a lot of today's kids > don't know them!) > I suppose yours are all 45s? No...many of MINE are 2 & 4 minute cylinders! ROFL (Hey...this is fun...but we better stop it...Paul will cut us off when he gets back....TEE HEE HEE) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3344	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: AM Diesel Loco Shells

When S Helper Service was carrying the AM line, they were willing to break up diesels and sell a shell to Customer "A" and a chassis to Customer "B." It seems that approximately as many people wanted chassis as wanted shells. I am an example of one who wanted a chassis: I needed, and purchased, an AM RS-3 chassis from SHS for my Railmaster RS-1. Someone else bought the shell. (I understand that AM will sell chassis without shells, but not vice versa.) So -- For you guys who want shells without chassis -- Why not use S-list to find out who might want the chassis that goes with the shell you want, buy a whole locomotive, split it up, and split up the cost? We scale guys are likely to want/need FA and RS chassis for our Loco Workshop FA body kits and our Railmaster RS kits, for example. Another conversion that is becoming more common: Replacing the AM Baldwin chassis with the SHS SW-9 chassis (which has the correct trucks and wheelbase), and using the AM chassis for another purpose. One of my club members has done this. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3345	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Cbtrainnut@... wrote: > as mom always used to tell > me " the world doesn't revolve around you and those damn trains". Thanks Chris - I think I will post this above my workbench.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3346	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: E.B.T. Hoppers in Sn3

Hi all - BTS wrote: > We put a couple of photos of the beasts on the web last night at > http://www.btsrr.com/bts9102.htm Bill, what a beautiful car. I hadn't realized it was resin - all this time I thought you were talking brass. I can't rationalize running one of these but I think I will have to buy one just for the pleasure of building it - and to keep the industry moving. I hope you will keep these craftsmen busy making other kits - I think resin kits are going to help S-scale really move. Art Armstrong

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3347	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Proto:64 and tinplate

I am really glad we are all on the same list and hope it stays that way. I am strictly a Gilbert AF operator of floor layouts but feel I have a lot in common with you fine scale guys. You are trying to build/operate museum quality models; I am trying to develop museum quality restoration techniques. Quite a few of these are adopted/adapted from scale model rr'ing techniques, esp. when it comes to styrene restoration. And of course a lot of the models you produce are absolutely stunning. As Sy Oliver used to say, "If you don't like that, you don't like ice cream!" Though I have no intention of getting into fine scale modelling, I do have some things I've been wondering about. 1. Do you have to weight your rolling stock more than in 'regular' s scale? 2. Do you have to bank (superelevate) curves a little more? I have to do this more than I would like because of the short radius Flyer curves, esp. thru turnouts. Wonder if you have a similar problem. 3. Has anyone ever come up with an electronic track gauge or measuring device? It seems fine measurements in this area must be very important in your style of work. I would be interested in knowing the answers to these questions. Operating Proto:64 strikes me as extremely challenging, and very rewarding when it works. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3348	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Cbtrainnut wrote: "... the world doesn't revolve around you and those da** trains". WHAT!!! Blasphemy in the temple!!!! Wait till Paul gets back........ (Actually the word Does revolve around "those da** trains", I'm just a satellite orbiting it!! <BG>) (Don't you just love how true believers pull stuff out of context like I just did!!) S' David D. Just having fun!! Back to da trains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3349	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem

> Ron claims he can't make money on shells only. He > also claims that the Tin plate people would buy > one complete engine and a dozen shells of > different paint jobs and keep changing the bodies. Is the real reason because the shells cannot be priced low enough to sell and still make a profit? Because this reason is both offensive and silly. If you sold 12 shells that would still be better than selling nothing. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3350	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem

> Ron claims he can't make money on shells only. He > also claims that the Tin plate people would buy > one complete engine and a dozen shells of > different paint jobs and keep changing the bodies. Is the real reason because the shells cannot be priced low enough to sell and still make a profit? Because this reason is both offensive and silly. If you sold 12 shells that would still be better than selling nothing. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3351	From: Mark Preman	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

The June list is posted. Click on: http://www.americanflyertrains.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3352	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Help with Sam the Semaphore man

Does anyone know how the small spring that closes the door should be positioned? And if so, can u tell me how, short of finding a nimble 3 year old, do you get the spring into the correct position. Thanks, Gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3353	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: shells

What we need is some costal dude to manufacture a Fairbanks-Morse C-Liner body for the AM chassis. Then we could say,"He sells C shells by the sea shore." Sorry, couldn't resist it... The problem with the LTI U.P. shells is not new. Have heard complaints about this ever since they came out. Have also heard that some of the NP sets were made with metal coupler parts, causing shorting from car to car. How's that for some 3 rail thinking? And we've already discussed the toasted reverse unit problem. So, you be the judge... Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3354	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Shell game: was LTI UP paint problem

Hmm, OK, I'll stir the waters a bit with my thoughts on this, and admit up front they are my thoughts based on my experiences and understanding of the manufacturing process (which is, admittedly, limited). Mostly I'm interested in other's thoughts and maybe response from the members who ARE making stuff. Plastic Shells: after the initial investment in the mold (Considerable!!),and the molding machine set-up (this cost is one reason Big L requires so many orders of a special-run car) including the test shots, the individual shell materials cost is very small. The machine makes multiples per minute, after an hour, you have quite a pile of 'raw' shells. Even ACG would store these until needed for processing. (Processing= inspection, flash removal, cleaning, painting) The mold costs get amortized over many production runs (quantities, I dunno, there is mold wear, but that takes a while, depending on the abrasiveness of the plastic). Painted Plastic Shells: These have more labor added to them, the paint isn't that expensive, but the labor to apply it is, also the masks etc. This too, requires a production run to recover set-up costs. So, Yes, there are costs related to the shells, and more so if they are painted. I still think the shell costs are far less than the chassis development costs--lots of little parts there, and manual assembly! So why does undecorated stuff cost as much as decorated?? Are the manufactures afraid we'll all buy undecorated and paint them ourselves?? (I can't think that would happen much, some of us, yes, but we're in the minority, the factory paint jobs look sooo nice--well, except big L's, too course) Ok, so there's my thoughts, let's hear some others! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3355	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: AM S12 Chassis

In message <37555BFF.B7075BD7@...>, Richard Karnes <karnesrn@...> writes > >Another conversion that is becoming more common: Replacing the AM >Baldwin chassis with the SHS SW-9 chassis (which has the correct trucks >and wheelbase), and using the AM chassis for another purpose. One of my >club members has done this. > Hi Dick What can you use the AM Blw S12 chassis for and still be prototypically correct? -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3356	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI paint problem

AM will do that. They will trade you shells for a fee atleast they did. Larry neil.trump@... wrote: > From: neil.trump@... > > I I understand what people are saying about these companies not supplying > additional shells due to the possible fact that some people may capitilise > from them in other ways, but this doesn't help when you may have a genuine > problem with an existing shell for whatever reason. I would be more than > happy to return my old shell and pay for a replacement, keeps everyone > happy. > > Neil T. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > With more than 18 million e-mails exchanged daily... > http://www.onelist.com > ...ONElist is THE place where the world talks! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3357	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: Selling Shell's seprate, a bad idea..

Why not increase the price say to $75 or $80? That would cover things. They do it in HO scale Larry Dalessandro, David L TL13C wrote: > From: "Dalessandro, David L TL13C" <David.Dalessandro2@...> > > I agree with the business practice of not selling Engine Shell's. It would > impact the product sales to greatly, if these guys cant sell enough engines > they may go out of business and we will have no resources remaining to get > new products from. Honestly think about it, it is not just a hobby when you > have as much product to sell as our suppliers have. If they don't make > enough cash to support their families and live a nice life why would they do > this? I know how some people think, they would throw a fairly cheep chaise > on a cheep body, custom paint it to try to save a buck. > > Here is when a shell should be made available...You purchased a product, > within the WARRENTY period there was a paint or real structural problem not > related to our misuse, then the seller should try to repaint the shell when > you send it to him. If it is beyond that and a shell is available it should > be used for that repair. Usually you will see the problem very soon, once > paint cures it is very rare that a problem will naturally occur. If you > are not happy as I was with the lousy uneven paint quality of the Lionel UP > set. Tell them right away, they did replace my shells when I sent them in, I > must say the replacements were beat also which is why I sold my set and > don't own one yet. Quality control is very important!! The AM UP look very > nice if your looking for a nice UP set. That will be where I get my UP's > this summer. They sound a lot better with the turbines reving up also!! > > When it comes to nice quality I am very pleased with AM, Overland Brass, RR > Brass, ACG of course, S Helper, and many other venders. Lionel is beat, > that's why I shy away from them unless it's a must have item. I don't get > the rough finish on them either... > > Dave Dalessandro > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking to expand your world? > http://www.onelist.com > ONElist has nearly 160,000 e-mail communities from which to chose! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3358	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP paint problem

He says that selling shells would cut into sale of the whole engine that is why he should make them available at 70 or 80 dollars. Larry Scott Holm wrote: > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > > Ron claims he can't make money on shells only. He > > also claims that the Tin plate people would buy > > one complete engine and a dozen shells of > > different paint jobs and keep changing the bodies. > > Is the real reason because the shells cannot be priced low enough to sell and still make a profit? > Because this reason is both offensive and silly. If you sold 12 shells that would still be better > than selling nothing. > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > With more than 18 million e-mails exchanged daily... > http://www.onelist.com > ...ONElist is THE place where the world talks! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3359	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Village Depot IS OPEN

Pacific North West Modellers take note!! Recent postings may have given a n impression that "Village Depot" was no longer in action. I am glad to submit the following: <snip> Whatever report you read or whatever mailing list has the information I can assure you it is not true. VILLAGE DEPOT is not closed and has no plans to close. Steve Bishop, Owner VILLAGE DEPOT <snip> Good news eh !! :~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3360	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: engine shells

The shell thing is hard. It costs money to even decorate extra shells that you may not have a market once the chassis are all acconted for. We had asked for extra painted and lettered bodies for the SW-9s. About 3 or 4 for each roadname. This was for replacement due to QC problems. We did not get more than two requests for these. Plus, they did not send any cabs, only the hoods (I am not sure why) or replacement windows (again, I do not know why). I know that Ron sells undecorated engines. We did the SW-9s in unlettered painted black, this was the best selling SW-9 item and we are now sold out. We had asked to get some chassis without bodies (for other switcher conversions), but none came through. Re: Why do undecs cost the same as decorated units - This is a good question that deserves an answer. Each of the 15 roadnames of our SW-9 cost us a different amount. The Conrail unit cost was 3% more than the undec, but the ACL was 20% more. But, that is only half the story. The film. printing plate and paint masks costs for the SW-9s was different for each SW-9 roadname. To be fair, we would of needed 16 different prices, one for each roadname. Try working that into an advertisement or convincing hobby shops that they want different prices for each roadname. We just looked at all of the cost as part of the project and kept the price the same for all roadnames. Any other way would not have been fair to someone (You can also think of it that the remaining Canadian Pacific SW-9s are a great bargain as this is the most costly SW-9 that we still have in stock). -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3361	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: Village Depot IS OPEN

Dear Richard, Yes, but is he still interested in stocking S Gauge? Don Thompson Richard Snook wrote: > > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > > Pacific North West Modellers take note!! > > Recent postings may have given a n impression that "Village Depot" was > no longer in action. I am glad to submit the following: > <snip> > Whatever report you read or whatever mailing list has the information I > can > assure you it is not true. VILLAGE DEPOT is not closed and has no plans > to > close. > Steve Bishop, Owner > VILLAGE DEPOT > > <snip> > > Good news eh !! :~)) Richard ttp://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3362	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: lists

Thanks for the replies. The links usually work, but sometimes there's that gaping hole in the middle of the message. As you might have guessed, I had a tad bit of frustration using Onelist's search engine. I killed one mouse this year by throwing it at the machine, and decided to bail out of Onelist before there was another massacre. Stan sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3363	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Parts Bin??

Kitbashing etc All this discussion about shells etc , for me highlights a much greater problem. Parts in general. Jeff and others (ex HO will appreciate) like my self used to have a fantastic array of bit and pieces available at the shop to do bashes..Yes " My name is Richard Snook , and I have a problem , I am an ex HOer, but I haven't touched !:87 for XX days" The really wonderful thing about HO is when some article appears in the mags about bashing "this" into "that" ...take 2x XYZ shell(just for bits) add one ABC shell ...modify #$% chassis with trucks from a Ath-mann Geep and presto instant GPxx with all those added details from DW , DA anfd the list went on.. Sorry Jeff and all if I make you sentimental at this point. There are parts out there and the list is growing..take a look at...http://www.trainweb.org/proto64/parts/index.htm But the basic ingredient, almost the flour of the recipe so to speak, are undec shells. If manufacturer "Harry" doesn't want to sell shells , well its his business, just a shame...I don't persona;lly think that the selling of shells will in any way impact upon any potential "full model" purcahses...if anything it may actually grow that market. Those who want a RTR model are always going to want to buy RTR models...there are those who will buy some as they come, and may even modify a few to represent a certain prototype....then there are those who want a specific locomotive....doesn't come RTR ( Or Kit) so what is he/she to do..they were never going to buy the AB!@# from "Harry's Models"..there is no SALE lost here...what is lost is the opportunity to purchase various bits to make that AB!@#...all for want of a starting point. A whole psyche of modelling developed in that other scale because of "THE PARTS BIN"...I'm sure Athearn isn't hurting because of it...in fact some customers were introduced to Athearn this way!! It didn't detract from any purchase ..it added to them, and brought a new type of modeller to the game....imho...we in "S" could do with an army of this type of modeller. As to cost amortisation with respect to investments, well I'm about to find out whether my own ideas on this subject will hold water. Suffice to say I might be taking a slightly different approach.. Don't feel qualified as yet to pass judgement on the call of others in this area!! Simply put...I don't feel that supply shells is hurtful to the supplier...having said this it can be a hassle if you are not in direct control of the manufacturing side of things...if you are importing a complete item then IT IS going to present a problem. Maybe there is room to bring in a bunch of plain undec shells...just a thought :~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3364	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: Parts Bin??

Re: Richard Snook's commentary on shell & parts availability: This time the link was there. Well, a few were. My mail program seems to indicate that we should we start replying to that AB!@# address. Anyway, the mouse will live. I could definitely use radiator screening as found on the SW-1500. I'd like to see those parts available. Are these going to be etchings? Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3365	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: AM Diesel Loco Shells

Richard Karnes wrote: > > From: Richard Karnes <karnesrn@...> > > (I understand that AM will sell chassis without shells, but not vice > versa.) Hey Guys and Gals, Here's a sinister idea. Lets buy up all of the chassis from AM and he'll have to sell the shells! Or make more chassis? -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3366	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Parts etc

Stans question is deserving of an answer. Sunny Creek Models Policy: It will be where ever feasible to offer any parts to the bodies and sub-assemblies as separate items. Running gear is different as some will be obtained as OEM from other sources.Those made in house aren't a problem, but I can't speak for others At present it is intended that both the top and front screens to the SW1500 will indeed be etchings..the front one will be a rather interesting subassembly in itself as the grid wraps iteself around the frame of the grill!! The steps will also be etched. I would expect that the tread to be incorporated as part of that casting. Don is to be commended for his forsight regarding shells. Hope my crystal ball is as good as his. :~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3367	From: busy-boy	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Take Me Out to The Olde Shell Game

For what it's worth, my wife bought me a surprise Christmas present two years ago. She called Ron Bashista (looked him up in one of my Classic Toy Trains mags) and ordered a complete set of Amtrak Superliners including the extra cars and engine. (Yes, she has a sister, who is already married!) The second engine shipped with a damaged front step and walkway as well as a broken handrail. I only spotted the handrail at first and called for a replacement, which came right away. Then I noticed the other damage, which could not be repaired. The shell was ruined. York was coming up in April, so I took the engine with me to show Ron personally. He did not attend. Apparently, he never does. More than a year later, I finally called and talked with Ron. So I was busy. Anyway, he told me to send back the shell. I did, and shortly a replacement was shipped to me. No fuss, no muss. I've heard a lot of things about Ron. I've been told by retailers that he is difficult and sets high minimums. The consensus of experience is usually right. My experience differs, however, and I am a satisfied customer. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3368	From: busy-boy	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Take Me Out to The Olde Shell Game

For what it's worth, my wife bought me a surprise Christmas present two years ago. She called Ron Bashista (looked him up in one of my Classic Toy Trains mags) and ordered a complete set of Amtrak Superliners including the extra cars and engine. (Yes, she has a sister, who is already married!) The second engine shipped with a damaged front step and walkway as well as a broken handrail. I only spotted the handrail at first and called for a replacement, which came right away. Then I noticed the other damage, which could not be repaired. The shell was ruined. York was coming up in April, so I took the engine with me to show Ron personally. He did not attend. Apparently, he never does. More than a year later, I finally called and talked with Ron. So I was busy. Anyway, he told me to send back the shell. I did, and shortly a replacement was shipped to me. No fuss, no muss. I've heard a lot of things about Ron. I've been told by retailers that he is difficult and sets high minimums. The consensus of experience is usually right. My experience differs, however, and I am a satisfied customer. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3369	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis

I am told Ron used the RS-3 chassis for the Baldwin. As such, it can be used for Alco RS-1, RS-2, RS-3, FA, FB, and Baldwin RF-16 "Sharks." It can probably also be used for later Alco road switchers too, but these are outside my knowledge base. I think Stan Stokrocki can expand my list. Dick Karnes kelvin white wrote: > In message <37555BFF.B7075BD7@...>, Richard Karnes > <karnesrn@...> writes > > > >Another conversion that is becoming more common: Replacing the AM > >Baldwin chassis with the SHS SW-9 chassis (which has the correct trucks > >and wheelbase), and using the AM chassis for another purpose. One of my > >club members has done this. > > > Hi Dick > > What can you use the AM Blw S12 chassis for and still be prototypically > correct? > -- > Kelvin White > Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3370	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/2/1999
Subject: Re: Proto:64 and tinplate

See answers below: Dick Karnes Jarcho wrote: > I do have some things I've been wondering about. > 1. Do you have to weight your rolling stock more than in 'regular' s scale? I never weight any cars beyond their out-of-the-box (or kit-built or scratchbuilt) weight. I know that there is a weight standard, and that lots of people strongly recommend weighting cars. But to me, weighting cars just reduces the length of train that can be pulled. I have never had any of the problems that others cite -- like a train of lightweight cars being pulled off a curve because a heavy car is at the rear. I am fussy about my trackwork, and I don't use radii smaller than 42" on my mainline. I keep my trucks free-rolling, using a light oil in the journal bearings of metal trucks. I run trains up to 40 cars. > > 2. Do you have to bank (superelevate) curves a little more? No. Superelevation helps appearance only. The physics of small-mass models on 42" curves does not warrant superelevation. Actually, as in the prototype, the 3-degree conical wheel tread provides enough centering compensation on curves. > > 3. Has anyone ever come up with an electronic track gauge or measuring > device? Not necessary. I use a standard sheet-metal track gauge. It allows me to easily gauge my rails between the minimum and maximum allowable gauge. Absolute precision is not necessary or warranted. All that is necessary is to be somewhere between the min. and max. A footnote on track gauge: I have a substantial roster of pre-NASG-standard wheelsets, particularly on locomotives which I do not care to regauge. And I have a substantial quantity of NASG-gauged stuff too. I use the 1970-era NMRA standard track gauge. Both the old (pre-NASG) and new (NASG standard) equipment run fine on track gauged to the old standard. But the old stuff will not operate on NASG-gauged track.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3371	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Type B trucks & Alco PA's

Referring to the trucks under American Model's Baldwin S12 switcher, Dick Karnes wrote: I am told Ron used the RS-3 chassis for the Baldwin. As such, it can be used for Alco RS-1, RS-2, RS-3, FA, FB, and Baldwin RF-16 "Sharks." It can probably also be used for later Alco road switchers too, but these are outside my knowledge base. To which Paul Schneider replied: The trucks in question are known as AAR Type B road trucks. Unlike EMD's Blomberg road trucks (which were unique to EMD), many builders used the Type B's. With the standard GE traction motor, the truck's wheelbase is four feet, nine inches. A Westinghouse-motor version is six inches longer to accommodate the bigger Westinghouse traction motors. Both versions were used under Alco, Baldwin and GE road power with the following exceptions: --A handful of late-model ater Century-series units (such as New York Central's 10 C430s) used a unique "Hi-Adhesion" truck instead of the Type B truck (much to the chagrin of engineeers and mechanical department people I've talked with). --GE replaced the Type B truck in 1972 with its own "Floating Bolster" truck. The lion's share of Dash 7-series four-motor units ride on the "floating bolster" truck. --A C-line truck was used under all Fairbanks Morse four-motor road-switchers and cab units after 1949. I hope this isn't too far off-topic, but two diesels near and dear to the hearts of S-gaugers are in the news. Thanks to a cultural exchange program with the Smithsonian, two former Santa Fe PA1's (later owned by Delaware & Hudson) are on their way home after being in Mexico for more than 24 years. One PA is slated to be restored to Santa Fe warbonnet paint and displayed at the Smithsonian. a fine addition to the museum's collection of historically significant locomotives (the PA is widely recognized as "the world most beautiful diesel locomotive"). The other PA will be restored to--hang on to your hats, guys!--NKP paint by private owner Doyle McCormack (of Daylight 4449 steam engine fame). D&H bought four Santa Fe PA's in the late 1960s to power its Albany, NY to Montreal, Quebec passenger trains. The units were later rebuilt by Morrison Knudsen with 251 Alco engines and dubbed "PA4s." With the advent of Conrail in 1976, the units were whisked off to Mexico (along with many D&H alcos and GE's) by a shady equipment broker. The other PAs (one in an SP Daylight-inspired red-and-orange paint scheme!) remain in Mexico, safe in museums. And you folks thought the Comet B-units were rare! _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3372	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis

You are assuming he made the chassis as an RS3 chassis. From my studies of his products he has done little to match the prototype. As he told me once when I asked him why didn't try to be more prototypical "They are only models". Larry Richard Karnes wrote: > From: Richard Karnes <karnesrn@...> > > I am told Ron used the RS-3 chassis for the Baldwin. As such, it can be used > for Alco RS-1, RS-2, RS-3, FA, FB, and Baldwin RF-16 "Sharks." It can > probably also be used for later Alco road switchers too, but these are > outside my knowledge base. I think Stan Stokrocki can expand my list. > > Dick Karnes > > kelvin white wrote: > > > In message <37555BFF.B7075BD7@...>, Richard Karnes > > <karnesrn@...> writes > > > > > >Another conversion that is becoming more common: Replacing the AM > > >Baldwin chassis with the SHS SW-9 chassis (which has the correct trucks > > >and wheelbase), and using the AM chassis for another purpose. One of my > > >club members has done this. > > > > > Hi Dick > > > > What can you use the AM Blw S12 chassis for and still be prototypically > > correct? > > -- > > Kelvin White > > Oxford England > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > With more than 18 million e-mails exchanged daily... > http://www.onelist.com > ...ONElist is THE place where the world talks! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3373	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: Type B trucks & Alco PA's

Paul D. Schneider wrote: > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > : > > The trucks in question are known as AAR Type B road > trucks. Unlike EMD's Blomberg road trucks (which were > unique to EMD), many builders used the Type B's. With > the standard GE traction motor, the truck's wheelbase > is four feet, nine inches. A Westinghouse-motor > version is six inches longer to accommodate the bigger > Westinghouse traction motors. Both versions were used > under Alco, Baldwin and GE road power with the > following exceptions: > You have the feet and inches reversed. It is nine feet and four inches And the ones with westinghouse motors are nine feet ten inches and some GEs used nine feet three inches.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3374	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: AM shells

--- lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> wrote: > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > AM will do that. They will trade you shells for a fee atleast they did. > Larry > They didn't offer this option to me. I wrote that the original owner/assembler of the engine did a bad glueing job and that I was not happy with the PRR black paint scheme (I got enough black with the steamers.) Their only response was, "We don't sell shells." So I guess I'm left with fixing the railing and repainting it myself. I'll certainly take this lack of customer service into consideration when contemplating future purchases. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3375	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: AM shells

--- lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> wrote: > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > AM will do that. They will trade you shells for a fee atleast they did. > Larry > They didn't offer this option to me. I wrote that the original owner/assembler of the engine did a bad glueing job and that I was not happy with the PRR black paint scheme (I got enough black with the steamers.) Their only response was, "We don't sell shells." So I guess I'm left with fixing the railing and repainting it myself. I'll certainly take this lack of customer service into consideration when contemplating future purchases. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3376	From: JTMGoBlue@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: 18 B transformer

I have an 18B transformer which was modified prior to my purchase. We have corrected the wiring to move the circuit breaker lights to the outside. How is this transformer supposed to work? Are both outputs stopped when there is a short on one of them or do they operate independently? There is a bare wire connecting the three grounds.....is that from the factory or did it get added when the prior owner modified the transformer. I'd appreciate any help I can get. If you have an operating 18b and would be willing to talk by phone, please send me an e-mail to jtmgoblue@... with your number and a convenient time to chat.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3377	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: 18 B transformer

Is 'MGoBlue' some sort of Wolverine reference? What is the 'JT' for? Please don't hide the 18B answer lantern under a basket. I too have one that is new to me. It seems to work perfectly, but, I do not know what is inside and I would like to. So, when you get your answers, and the folks on this list will answer, please post them for the rest of us. Thanks, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: JTMGoBlue@... <JTMGoBlue@...> To: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 11:05 AM Subject: [S-Trains] 18 B transformer >From: JTMGoBlue@... > > >I have an 18B transformer which was modified prior to my purchase. We have >corrected the wiring to move the circuit breaker lights to the outside. How >is this transformer supposed to work? Are both outputs stopped when there is >a short on one of them or do they operate independently? There is a bare wire >connecting the three grounds.....is that from the factory or did it get added >when the prior owner modified the transformer. I'd appreciate any help I can >get. If you have an operating 18b and would be willing to talk by phone, >please send me an e-mail to jtmgoblue@... with your number and a >convenient time to chat. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3378	From: Rodney.Booth@xxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxxx	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: 18 B transformer

I have an 18B also which I have had some 40 odd years , I bought it when I was a teenager. But I have never had it apart or have had any trouble with it. But I too would like to know exactly what was in it . Thanks, Rodney "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> on 06/03/99 01:35:55 PM To: "S-Trains List" <S-Trains@onelist.com> cc: (bcc: Rodney Booth/Philips) Subject: Re: [S-Trains] 18 B transformer From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> Is 'MGoBlue' some sort of Wolverine reference? What is the 'JT' for? Please don't hide the 18B answer lantern under a basket. I too have one that is new to me. It seems to work perfectly, but, I do not know what is inside and I would like to. So, when you get your answers, and the folks on this list will answer, please post them for the rest of us. Thanks, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: JTMGoBlue@... <JTMGoBlue@...> To: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Thursday, June 03, 1999 11:05 AM Subject: [S-Trains] 18 B transformer >From: JTMGoBlue@... > > >I have an 18B transformer which was modified prior to my purchase. We have >corrected the wiring to move the circuit breaker lights to the outside. How >is this transformer supposed to work? Are both outputs stopped when there is >a short on one of them or do they operate independently? There is a bare wire >connecting the three grounds.....is that from the factory or did it get added >when the prior owner modified the transformer. I'd appreciate any help I can >get. If you have an operating 18b and would be willing to talk by phone, >please send me an e-mail to jtmgoblue@... with your number and a >convenient time to chat. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend? http://www.onelist.com Come join one of nearly 160,000 e-mail communities at ONElist! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3379	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Missing postings

Hi all, I am reading postings replying to postings I've not read. Is anyone else having this problem? Most recently it was Lawrence's reply about "type B trucks and Alco PAs" . Now that's one I really want to read about! Since I've dealt with some full-sized trucks the various types of trucks facinates me. I'm amazed, now that I know better, that ACG made extra-long EMD type trucks for the GPs and they don't look all that bad, unless you know bbetter! Hmm, wonder if with optional side frames you could make SDs out of them??? Gee, with new shells on the Alco chassis and sideframes, couldn't you have Es?? I know, radical dreaming. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3380	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: missing postings 2

Hmm, when I sent my original post on this, my server downloaded more mail, including Paul's original post (good one, I appreciated it) AND put it order in my inbox!! My server recently upgrade the mailbox software, I think I don't like it!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3381	From: Michael Greene	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Maine Narrow Gauge in S - Update

While I was in Maine this past weekend, I stopped in for my regular visit at Train & Trooper in North Yarmouth, ME. For those of you not familiar with this hobby shop, it's probably the hobby shop headquarters for Maine narrow gauge modelling. Matt & Martha Sharp cater to the MNG modelers in a variety of scales. Just as an update for those interested in modeling MNG in S, Matt indicated that a number of products are forthcoming from a number of sources. As I recall the order he indicated: - caboose - freight cars - brass loco The caboose kit is anticipated for July from what he said. For those of you interested in one of the brass Sn2 locos, they're still taking reservations, but not money quite yet. If you have not gotten your reservation in yet, you might want to give them a call. Train and Trooper can be contacted at 207-829-3211. They also have a web page at: http://www.agate.net/~trainand/index.html Enjoy! Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3382	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis

In message <37561DCA.FBAE03ED@...>, Richard Karnes <karnesrn@...> writes >I am told Ron used the RS-3 chassis for the Baldwin. As such, it can be used >for Alco RS-1, RS-2, RS-3, FA, FB, and Baldwin RF-16 "Sharks." It can >probably also be used for later Alco road switchers too, but these are >outside my knowledge base. I think Stan Stokrocki can expand my list. > >Dick Karnes > Thanks Dick , but the S12 chassis has a shorter wheelbase than that used for the other 'standard' AM locos. He did use the 9ft 4in trucks from the RS3, GP9/18 etc. Thus my question remains open....? >kelvin white wrote: > >> In message <37555BFF.B7075BD7@...>, Richard Karnes >> <karnesrn@...> writes >> > >> >Another conversion that is becoming more common: Replacing the AM >> >Baldwin chassis with the SHS SW-9 chassis (which has the correct trucks >> >and wheelbase), and using the AM chassis for another purpose. One of my >> >club members has done this. >> > >> Hi Dick >> >> What can you use the AM Blw S12 chassis for and still be prototypically >> correct? >> -- >> Kelvin White >> Oxford England > -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3383	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: AM S12 Chassis

What do owners of the S12 think of the beast. Supposedly it comes in a regular and lower gear version? cheers lawrence jackman wrote: > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > You are assuming he made the chassis as an RS3 chassis. From my studies of his > products he has done little to match the prototype. As he told me once when I > asked him why didn't try to be more prototypical "They are only models". > Larry > Richard Karnes wrote: > > > From: Richard Karnes <karnesrn@...> > > > > I am told Ron used the RS-3 chassis for the Baldwin. As such, it can be used > > for Alco RS-1, RS-2, RS-3, FA, FB, and Baldwin RF-16 "Sharks." It can > > probably also be used for later Alco road switchers too, but these are > > outside my knowledge base. I think Stan Stokrocki can expand my list. > > > > Dick Karnes > > > > kelvin white wrote: > > > > > In message <37555BFF.B7075BD7@...>, Richard Karnes > > > <karnesrn@...> writes > > > > > > > >Another conversion that is becoming more common: Replacing the AM > > > >Baldwin chassis with the SHS SW-9 chassis (which has the correct trucks > > > >and wheelbase), and using the AM chassis for another purpose. One of my > > > >club members has done this. > > > > > > > Hi Dick > > > > > > What can you use the AM Blw S12 chassis for and still be prototypically > > > correct? > > > -- > > > Kelvin White > > > Oxford England > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > With more than 18 million e-mails exchanged daily... > > http://www.onelist.com > > ...ONElist is THE place where the world talks! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Give back to your community through "Grow to Give." > http://www.onelist.com > Deadline is June 19. See homepage for details. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3384	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis

For what it is worth, I cancelled my order for an S-12 when I saw what the trucks were. Also, I'd like to know if there are any notable dimension errors on the carbody. Rock Island had a small group of them, but if I can't do a decently accurate model, I'll go on to something else. Maybe I can do a swap with someone else later as suggested elsewhere if such opportunity arises. To the group: What would be a good byproduct from what is left over after you have put type A trucks from an SW-9 under the S-12. We know there are different truck wheelbase lengths, how different are the carbody truck center lengths?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3385	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: Missing postings

GUESS WHAT: One of the Gilbert Catalogs shows a GP-7 with Alco PA-1 trucks on it on the cover; I think I still have it!! On the otherhand, ACG shortened the Alco truck a couple feet to get a compromise between the two. Scale-length concerns lose both going and coming. David Dewey wrote: > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Hi all, > I am reading postings replying to postings I've not read. Is anyone else > having this problem? Most recently it was Lawrence's reply about "type B > trucks and Alco PAs" . Now that's one I really want to read about! Since > I've dealt with some full-sized trucks the various types of trucks facinates > me. I'm amazed, now that I know better, that ACG made extra-long EMD type > trucks for the GPs and they don't look all that bad, unless you know > bbetter! Hmm, wonder if with optional side frames you could make SDs out of > them??? Gee, with new shells on the Alco chassis and sideframes, couldn't > you have Es?? > I know, radical dreaming. > S' > David D. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > With more than 18 million e-mails exchanged daily... > http://www.onelist.com > ...ONElist is THE place where the world talks! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3386	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis

> What can you use the AM Blw S12 chassis for and still be prototypically > correct? >-- > Kelvin White I don't have measurements to work from, but on a "quick glance" basis, the Baldwin chassis and a reworked Miller body might get you somewhere close to an MLW RS-23. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3387	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis

On switchers there was only one truck wheel base for the AAR SW trucks. That was eight foot. I have not looked real close at S helpers SW unit but I would bet theirs is correct. As I have said for Ron it is only a model who cares. Larry Dave and Kathy Engle wrote: > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > > For what it is worth, I cancelled my order for an S-12 when I saw what the trucks > were. Also, I'd like to know if there are any notable dimension errors on the > carbody. Rock Island had a small group of them, but if I can't do a decently > accurate model, I'll go on to something else. Maybe I can do a swap with someone > else later as suggested elsewhere if such opportunity arises. To the group: What > would be a good byproduct from what is left over after you have put type A trucks > from an SW-9 under the S-12. We know there are different truck wheelbase lengths, > how different are the carbody truck center lengths? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Did you know each week we feature a ONElist story? > http://www.onelist.com > How has ONElist changed your life? Please share your story. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3388	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Village depot and "S"

Further to my posting yesterday that Village Depot IS , and will remain open, here is Steves's response to stocking "S" <snip> Richard, Yes on the S items when I can get them. PBL doesn't seem to be very quick when I order and the other suppliers are looking for direct sales but we try. Thanks for your efforts. Steve <snip> I have no affiliation with Steve or "Village Depot" , just wanted to let all know this fine store is still in business :~))Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3389	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis

Sorry if this is a duplication... I had some mail problems. Again, I don't have the measurement for the AM truck centers. If someone can measure this, please post it. An idea for the future: the Baldwin chassis with Blomberg sideframes and a slightly lengthened SW-1500 body seems like it would make a very decent MP-15DC. Attention Richard... Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3390	From: busy-boy	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Chassis for Sharks

Richard Karnes, I am listening to you. Your 2 recent replies were very informative. I bought an AB Shark shell set from Tom Hodgson (American Hi-Rail) and it is just sitting (with about 12 thousand other kits) in a box. Is the AM RS-3 chassis an exact "pop-in" or do I need to start modifying wheelbases and such? Also, what roads are the sideframes appropriate for? Your answers on gauging, super-el, and weighting are most appreciated here. Thanx, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3391	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: E-units

To David Dewey and anyone else interested: Tom Hodgson makes an S gauge GM E unit body (I don't remember which one -- probably an E7 or E8) and supplies a plan for reshaping a Flyer PA chassis to fit under it. Tempting, huh? I've been thinking about getting some for a long time. I think some appropriate sideframes may be available from another source, though they may not be an exact fit for a Flyer power truck. In any case, it wouldn't be too difficult to make one master sideframe, make a mold from it, and make a few soft metal or resin castings from that. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3392	From: Ted Weiler	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: shells

RE: the shorting out of the NP Passenger cars through the couplers. I have a friend that has a WP set with the same problem.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3393	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Metal couplers: was shells

Ah ha!! I've been wondering about these ever since I found out they were on the WP set. When I got my used NP set, I found out it has them too!! AAUGH!! IMHO, these should have been recalled! I've asked around, and so far only heard "no problem" Hmm, must take a while for the insulating paint to rub off!! Another great idea from the 3 rail folks. Why didn't they spend time on improving operation of the product than changing things that already worked (like couplers)?? Anyway, quick fix for the passenger cars, if you don't switch 'em around, would be to swap wheelsets, so the coupled trucks are both picking up power from the same rail. Because of the contact shoe on the loco trucks, this isn't an option. Also, sometimes the front loco metal coupler weight will strike switch frog if you're changing grades, or it's drooping. Not a problem with plastic bodied couplers, but!!! Solution, replace the coupler! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3394	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: Parts Bin??

Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> wrote: > All this discussion about shells etc , for me highlights a much greater > problem. Parts in general. > Jeff and others (ex HO will appreciate) like my self used to have a > fantastic array of bit and pieces available at the shop to do > bashes.. <snip> > > But the basic ingredient, almost the flour of the recipe so to speak, > are undec shells. <snip> > > A whole psyche of modelling developed in that other scale because of > "THE PARTS BIN"...I'm sure Athearn isn't hurting because of it...in fact > some customers were introduced to Athearn this way!! <snip> > > Simply put...I don't feel that supply shells is hurtful to the > supplier...having said this it can be a hassle if you are not in direct > control of the manufacturing side of things...if you are importing a > complete item then IT IS going to present a problem. Maybe there is > room to bring in a bunch of plain undec shells...just a thought I agree with this so much I can't overemphasize it. This relates to my undying campaign to get mfrs to realize that the growth of S depends on being competitive with HO. Why would an HOer want to switch to S if he knew that he couldn't buy undec shells for kitbashing projects? Additionally, consider this: every article published in a mainstream magazine such as MR about kitbashing an S scale model will only raise the exposure of the scale and inspire new enthusiasm. If such articles have to explain how a whole extra RTR locomotive has to be bought just to obtain a shell, well that's going to put a damper on anyone's enthusiasm for switching to S. --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling englij@... | R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D | Route of the Whippet ---------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3395	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Manufacturing wish list??

Now I might be dreaming (and typing at the same time..neat trick eh) but i seem to recall reading an older dispatch that The NASG had like a list of things that members wanted to see made...this list was intended for manufacturers, or potential ones to aid them in their decision making. Am I talking drivvel or did this/ does this actually exist. Reason ..simple ..I wouldn't mind a peak ...thanks to any help in this regard.. cheers :~)) Richard "Sunny Creek Models" Frankston,AUSTRALIA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3396	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Top 5 locos??

Ok Little survey of my own...good way to get things done. Pardon my taking up a little bandwidth ( but reallly why start apologising now eh??) I have already asked this of a couple of Essers and reaction was encouraging. This predominantly aimed at 'scale' participants..but ....WAIT..WAIT don't all run off just yet, because I'm actually intersted in "EVERYONES" input here!! Please name in order of preference..1 through 5 What diesel locomotive would you like to see made as a kit 1: ?? 2: ?? 3: ?? 4: ?? 5: ?? Is there any loco you would only consider if it was RTR (well shake the box!!) ? If you are a HiRailer would you consider any particular locomotive even if it didn't have lights and bells....but did run AC/DC on HiRail track?? This ................................. totally up to you... Name three things...any category that you would like to see made available in "S" 1: ?? 2: ?? 3: ?? please reply off list to me at richard.snook@... up til 25th June then richard_snook@... Jeff Madden....I would be very happy for this to go into the Dispatch if you feel warranted. Thankyou for your time and effort. If Ican't use the info I'll try and endeavor to get it to parties that can!! Should you know of any one who might like to participate in this survey but are not online , then please print out and have them snail mail to address below. Thanks again everyone cheers :~)) Richard address to Survey "Sunny Creek Models" 13 McAlister St Frankston, AUSTRALIA 3199

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3397	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: Chassis for Sharks

Chris Zizzo wrote: > I bought an AB Shark shell set from Tom Hodgson (American > Hi-Rail) and it is just sitting (with about 12 thousand other kits) in a > box. Is the AM RS-3 chassis an exact "pop-in" or do I need to start > modifying wheelbases and such? I did some "basement research" this evening, and the data are very interesting. The AM RS-3 chassis has a truck center-to-center spacing of 31 scale feet. For brevity, I shall call this measurement the "CC." Per my reference books, prototype diesels' CCs are: Alco RS-1: 31' Alco RS-3: 30' Alco FA-2: 29'-2" Baldwin RF-16 "Shark": 28'-2" Baldwin S-12: 25'-6" So the AM RS-3 chassis is an exact fit for the RS-1 (and a foot too long for the RS-3!). Its CC is 17/32" too long for the Shark. I do not own a Baldwin S-12. But: If AM's chassis for the S-12 is prototypically correct, then its CC is 1/2" too short for the Shark. The RS-3 chassis will, however, fit the Shark if you trim the frame ends and drill new mounting holes. The S-12 chassis will not work because the fuel tank will interfere with the trucks on a curve. If AM's Alco FA-2 ( I do not own one) has the correct CC, that would be the best fit on the Shark body. Its CC is only a scale foot (3/16") too long -- unnoticeable by any but the sharp-eyed rivet-counter. Maybe someone who owns an AM FA-2 and/or a Bladwin S-12 can furnish their CCs. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3398	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: Manufacturing wish list??

Richard Snook wrote: > i seem to recall reading an older dispatch that The NASG had like a > list of things that members wanted to see made...this list was intended > for manufacturers, or potential ones to aid them in their decision > making. Am I talking drivvel or did this/ does this actually exist. You are correct. NASG does this survey intermittently. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3399	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: E-units

Who can tell me more about this E unit? I hope it's not like the O scale one made of Hydrocal. Okay the DDS after the guy's name SHOULD'VE tipped me off but that's another story. Seriously, is this shell pretty good or am I better off seeking out a brass E at an affordable price (oxymoron alert!). -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Jarcho wrote: > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > To David Dewey and anyone else interested: > > Tom Hodgson makes an S gauge GM E unit body (I don't remember which one -- > probably an E7 or E8) and supplies a plan for reshaping a Flyer PA chassis > to fit under it. Tempting, huh? I've been thinking about getting some for > a long time. I think some appropriate sideframes may be available from > another source, though they may not be an exact fit for a Flyer power > truck. In any case, it wouldn't be too difficult to make one master > sideframe, make a mold from it, and make a few soft metal or resin castings > from that. Tom Jarcho > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3400	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Not necesarily gospel

re RF-16 (sharknose) I have a suspicion that not all Sharks were ceated equally and when the Omnicon models were developed, the protype shark used ..was actually longer than the so-called published plans. Baldwin , from what I can gather were amongst the greatest culprits on running changes to locos...and they kept doing it with Diesels !! :~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3401	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/3/1999
Subject: Re: Shark species

As Ed McMahon would say, "You are correct Sir!" I understand the Monongahela RR sharks had truck centers 6" closer than all other Sharks. However, Baldwin wasn't the only builder to take liberties with its specifications. For some reason, the Milwaukee Road's EMD FP45s where shorter than the Santa Fe FP45s by something like >6". I can't remember where I read this factoid but it had something to do with a Milw. turntable and the ends of the trucks clearing with a coupled set of units. When you get down to it, production diesels are more custom than standard. The big two, EMD and GE batched their subtleties but there where/are minor differences in every model's production run. This fact has always made it difficult for the magazines to pick a "representative" model of a diesel for scale drawings because they're all different -- even before they get in the hands of the shop crews. If you ever REALLY want to have fun, try to find a five-year-old or older diesel with it's original trucks! These days, thanks to pool power and run-throughs, you might be lucky to find just one of the original trucks on another unit owned by the same original road. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Richard Snook wrote: > > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > > re RF-16 (sharknose) > > I have a suspicion that not all Sharks were ceated equally and when the > Omnicon models were developed, the protype shark used ..was actually > longer than the so-called published plans. Baldwin , from what I can > gather were amongst the greatest culprits on running changes to > locos...and they kept doing it with Diesels !! > > :~)) Richard > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > "Congratulations to 'Voice-Diary,' our latest ONElist of the Week. > http://www.onelist.com > Visit our homepage and share with us how ONElist is changing YOUR life! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3402	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: keep on truckin'

All this talk about converting an American Models S12 chassis to the correct trucks and the unavailability of locomotive shells triggered some thoughts on bringing newcomers to S-gauge/S-scale. For many years my percept of S-gauge was that it belonged to scratchbuilders. I associated S-gauge with American Flyer, the toy trains of my youth. But with Flyer gone, I presumed S was left to a handful of never-say-die modelers who modified Flyer equipment and scratchbuilt everything from switches to structures. Not being particularly deft with tools or an airbrush, I never considered going into S-gauge. I figured my future belonged to HO or, perhaps, G (which was large enough for my middle-aged eyes to enjoy). Then my friend Andy McBride (at that time manager of Walthers' Terminal Hobby in Milwaukee) turned me on to the "new wave" of S-scale: American Models, S-Helper, etc. My interest level shot up considerably. Here was a scale I could see and handle comfortably. And there was a bunch of prototypical, high quality RTR stuff available. I began looking into buying my first S-gauge equipment (thanks, in part, to the folks on this list who helped me understand what was available in terms of AC vs Dc, scale and hi-rail, etc). Imagine my surprise when I looked at the AM S12 and found it riding on the wrong trucks. Sorry, I can handle a few missing louvres in an S-Helper SW9. But Type B road trucks under a Baldwin switcher? No thanks. I still can't fathom why AM chose to cut costs by using the Type B trucks under its S12. Perhaps the Flyer guys and hi-railers don't care. But it matters to scale folks. More to the point, it matters to ANY scale modeler considering the jump to S. My HO scale friends associate Type B trucks under a Baldwin switcher with toy trains, not scale model railroading. Perhaps they'd be tempted if they could modify the units themselves. But based on what I've read here the past few days, that's not easy to do. I'm not a kit-basher, but if I was (as many of my HO-scale friends are) I'd be reluctant to switch to a scale that didn't offer undec shells, proper truck sideframes, and other items. If the hi-railers want to switch decorated shells between one powered frame, let 'em. Not selling them shells isn't going to encourage them to buy more complete units. And it discourages the kit-bashers, a vital part of the hobby market. Can manufacturers afford to lose one market segment while they restrict another? Its a curious way to do business, for sure. And it sure doesn't sound like a long-term strategy to grow S, either. And isn't that what everyone--modelers AND manufacturers--wants?. === Paul D. Schneider Writer-producer Fast Track Productions fasttrack2000@... _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3403	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: Chassis for Sharks

> >I did some "basement research" this evening, and the data are very interesting. > >The AM RS-3 chassis has a truck center-to-center spacing of 31 scale feet. For >brevity, I shall call this measurement the "CC." Per my reference books, >prototype diesels' CCs are: > >Alco RS-1: 31' >Alco RS-3: 30' >Alco FA-2: 29'-2" >Baldwin RF-16 "Shark": 28'-2" >Baldwin S-12: 25'-6" > >So the AM RS-3 chassis is an exact fit for the RS-1 (and a foot too long for >the RS-3!). Its CC is 17/32" too long for the Shark. > >Dick Karnes The AM Baldwin S-12 has a center pin to center pin (this is same as your CC) distance of 23'-0", so it is 2'-6" short from the prototype. I do not have an AM FA-2, but I suspicion it is the same as the RS-3 to reduce manufacturing costs. After all, who is going to notice 8" difference in S scale once it is under the body. I will have a friend confirm this with his AM FA-2 if someone doesn't beat me to it. For those who are just looking for a home for the AM Baldwin S-12 drive and trucks after they put the SHS SW-9 drive, frame and trucks under the Baldwin body, take note that the truck wheel spacing (not including the side frame) is the same for the AM S-12, RS-3, FA-2, and FP-7 (yes, the FP-7). AM Alco truck side frame is 9'-4" axle to axle, and the EMD side frame is 9'-3" (prototype is 9'-0"). Since you can buy EMD side frames (at least you use to be able to) from AM, you can convert the trucks under the S-12 to EMD Blomberg trucks. Now if I only knew the center pin distance of an MP-15, maybe we might have a fit. As a side point,the Baldwin RF-16 (Sharknose) truck had an axle spacing of 9'-10" (and 42" wheels). However, the difference of 6" longer than the Alco truck is not enough to not use the AM truck under the RF-16. Nobody will ever notice it. As a matter of interest, the SHS SW-9 axle spacing is 8'-0" and the center pin distance is 22'-0". Just like the prototype. Lee Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3404	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: GP7 trucks

Dave and Kathy Eng report a Flyer catalogue cover photo of a GP7 with PA1 trucks. I don't have such a catalogue but I do have the genuine article, an actual GP7 with PA trucks. I've had the thing for several years but still haven't figured out what's best to do with it. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3405	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: Missing postings

In a message dated 6/3/99 5:26:48 PM, ironhors@... writes: << One of the Gilbert Catalogs shows a GP-7 with Alco PA-1 trucks on it on the cover; >> My 1950 catalogue shows the GP-7 with the (roughly) correct 4 wheel trucks. However, the illustrations show the loco fitted with link coupler latches, which of course was not done in production. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3406	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: NASG MAG Survey

>>> Richard Snook wrote: > i seem to recall reading an older dispatch that The NASG had like a > list of things that members wanted to see made...this list was intended > for manufacturers, or potential ones to aid them in their decision > making. Am I talking drivvel or did this/ does this actually exist. Dick Karnes replied: >You are correct. NASG does this survey intermittently. >>> Richard, I found the 1996 NASG Manufacturers' Advisory Group (MAG) Product Survey results published in the October 1996 issue of the Dispatch. Will Holt chaired the MAG. I don't recall if NASG conducted a product survey since then, and '96 may have been the last one. I seem to remember that the MAG was put on hold, and it isn't named as a standing committee in the current Dispatch. John Eichmann Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho *** Sixth Annual Treasure Valley Train Show, Boise, Idaho, June 12-13. 25,000 square feet of nothing but trains--11 operating layouts, including the RMHR's award-winning AF layout, "Lookout Junction" ***

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3407	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: Not necesarily gospel

Actusally, many of the earlier published plans are grossly in error. The Omnicon Shark conforms to the dimensions in Kalmbach's Locomotive Cyclopedia, Vol. 2 -- Diesel Locomotives. Dick Karnes Richard Snook wrote: > From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > > re RF-16 (sharknose) > > I have a suspicion that not all Sharks were ceated equally and when the > Omnicon models were developed, the protype shark used ..was actually > longer than the so-called published plans. Baldwin , from what I can > gather were amongst the greatest culprits on running changes to > locos...and they kept doing it with Diesels !!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3408	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Back from vacation

Hi guys, I'm back and for the most part I have been out of the loop with respect to the S-Trains list. I have been told that there has been some comments made about who the list is for, and what is 'correct' subject matter. Well as the 'owner' of the list let me give it to clarify any questions. 1) The list is called S-Trains, that is because it deals with S (as in 1/64th) model railroading. My definition of of S model railroading includes, A/F, A/F compatible, S-Gauge, S-Scale and also includes Sn?. I also welcome topics that involve putting scenery on your S layout. Repairing or building S equipment. Buying and selling is allowed in a limited form. ( reference to a www, or contact for the list) In other words we have a pretty open forum. I strongly believe that we can learn a lot from other S folks that have a different focus. I see the list as a tool to meet like minded folks. If you want to have in-depth one-on-one conversations, I expect you would want the privacy of using direct e-mail rather than posting this kind of traffic to the list. 2) Graphics are discouraged, Replying and including all of the original not is also discouraged. 3) Flaming will not be allowed As in the past, if you have any problem with the list, please contact me. If you want to unsubscribe, go to the list page http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm or the http://www.onelist.com or send me a direct e-mail. If you would like help starting your own list visit http://www.onelist.com We are now at 400 subscribers, and I would like to thank all of you that have helped me while I was on vacation. I will be creating a site that describes my Alaska travels, as soon as the photos return from the lab. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3409	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: Alco PA's

Paul D. Schneider wrote: > D&H bought four Santa Fe PA's in the late 1960s to > power its Albany, NY to Montreal, Quebec passenger > trains. > The units were later rebuilt by Morrison Knudsen with > 251 Alco engines and dubbed "PA4s." With the advent of > Conrail in 1976, the units were whisked off to Mexico > (along with many D&H alcos and GE's) by a shady > equipment broker. I need to respond to this only because it is important that erroneous statements not get spread around making people think they would be factual. To set the record straight, the departure of the PAs from the D&H had absolutely nothing to do with the advent of Conrail. The D&H bought the PAs in the late 60s as part of a general upgrading of their passenger service, but when Amtrak was created on 1971, the D&H route was dropped and the PAs went into business train service as well as being frequently used in freight service. When the "Adirondack" train was put on in 1974, there was a three-way agreement between Amtrak, D&H and the State of New York (who was the major financial backer of the new service), and as part of that agreement when the PAs were transformed into "PA4"s they became property of New York State and could no longer be "protected" by the simpathetic D&H management even though they were in their care for the time being. In 1977 Amtrak made a unilateral decision to use Rohr Turbo trains on the Adirondack, which released the PAs to be disposed of as the owner, NY State, saw fit. New York State law requires surplus equipment to be auctioned to the high bidder with no prejudice toward the buyer's future intentions. On the other hand, had more foresighted management prevailed at NYSDOT, rather than being surplussed, the PAs could have been transferred to the State Museum and we would not have had to go through the anguish of the last 20-plus years. --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling englij@... | R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D | Route of the Whippet ---------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3410	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: AM FA/FB-2 Dimensions

Well, it looks as though I assumed wrong again. The AM RS-3 and FA/FB-2 center pin dimensions are not the same. A friend just measured his FA-2 and FB-2 and came up with the following dimensions: AM FA-2: 29'-8" AM FB-2: 29'-5" As compared to your dimension of the prototype at 29'-2", it is close enough for the real world. Don't know if the difference between the SM FA-2 and FB-2 is measuring error, there is an actual difference, or the difference is within manufacturing tolerance. Looks like the AM FA/FB-2 is the best fit for the Baldwin RF-16. This has been an interesting and fun excersise. If everyone has been keeping these dimensions, you have some good data as to what cn be done for kitbashing. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3411	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Shared Files

FYI There is a "shared files" option for the members of any onelist. Several of us who are on the Sn3 list have uploaded pictures of our models, layouts etc. and it is a great way to share each others interests. I started the ball rolling with some of my own pictures. All you do is log in and go to the s-trains list as usual. Then look for the "member center" button on the left. Click it and you are again prompted for your user id and password. After you enter them you go to the Account Manager screen. Click on s-trains and a list of options comes up. Then click on "shared files". You then see a menu of pictures to select. Other options include the ability to create your own folder and upload your own pictures. There is also a counter of file space allowed to all and filespace used so we know if we are getting too full and have to delete some of the older entries. If anyone has any questions just let me know. I hope this encourages everyone to take advantage of this and share some pictures with the rest of us. Roy Hoffman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3412	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Reefer Model

There is a great article in Mainline Modeler, March - April -May on how to scratchbuild a Santa Fe wood reefer. The instructions make it sound hardly any more difficult than building a shake-the-box kit, or repairing an AF bellows. More work, but not more difficult!!!!!!!!!!! The article is written for O-scale, but it appears to be a simple matter to substitute S scale materials and products. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Photos At Play http://www.kodak.com/go/play ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3413	From: JIM SYPHAX	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: WABASH F3 SHELLS

Chris Wabash Valley has been making F3 shells for about 10 or 12 years. These shells really date back to Enhorning who first made the shells and a complete locomotive kit in the 60's. I have an original Enhorning F3 A-B set. Enhorning used an unstable plastic and the shells developed a pecular hump or warp in the body. This was later corrected when they switched to a better grade of plastic. Enhorning; however, fell on hard times and went out of business. In the late 80's Wabash Valley entered the picture and began producing these shells. They are available through Walthers or S' Scenery Unlimited (Heimberger) for $16.95 per shell, A or B. Bill's Train Shop (Billy Wade) sells brass detail parts to finish out the body. American Models FP7 chassies can be cut down to fit in these shells. It makes a good conversion and they run great. -----Original Message----- From: busy-boy <busy-boy@...> To: JIM SYPHAX <jhsyphax@...> Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 5:00 PM Subject: Re: HODSON SHARKS > >I HAVE ALSO BUILT AN A-B-B-A SET OF EMD F3s USING CUT DOWN AM FP7 CHASSIES >AND WABASH SHELLS. > >Jim: >Thanks for the info. What are Wabash shells? Did someone make F-3's when I >wasn't looking? >Chris > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3414	From: JIM SYPHAX	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Fw: HODSON SHARKS

-----Original Message----- From: JIM SYPHAX <jhsyphax@...> To: yorke@... <yorke@...> Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 8:59 PM Subject: HODSON SHARKS I built an A-B-B-A set of Pennsy freight Sharks with these shells. I used AM Alco FA chassies. These are almost a drop in fit and the trucks are correct for the RF-16. You only need to grind the chassie at the front on both sides to the contour of the shell nose on the A-Units. You also need to grind down both sides of the rear just enough to clear the ladders on the rear of the body. The B-units require even less work. All units in my set are powered. I have also built an A-B-B-A set of EMD F3s using cut down AM FP7 chassies and Wabash Valley shells. I am a member of the Miami Valley and Central Ohio S Gauge clubs and regularly use these sets on the club layout to pull 60 to 65 AM, SHS, and PRS cars at shows. Both the freight Sharks and the F3s are DC; however, I have just this week completed building an A-B-A set of F3s in AC for a fillow club member.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3415	From: JIM SYPHAX	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Fw: HODSON E7/E8

-----Original Message----- From: JIM SYPHAX <jhsyphax@...> To: yorke@... <yorke@...> Date: Friday, June 04, 1999 8:44 PM Subject: HODSON E7/E8 Hodson produced both E7 and E8 shells. In addition he has also produced power trucks for these shells. The trucks are built with the can motor in the truck between the side frames similar to flyer setup. I purchased two E8 shells and 4 power trucks from Hodson. (non power trucks were also available). The power trucks have a solid lead weight over each truck. Building these units this way gave me two motors per unit (Yes, I'm a power nut) and they really pull. The drawing Tom supplies does show you how to modify the AF PA frame, however, I used his drawing and laid out the mounting holes on a piece of K&S Brass Stock. I found this to be a better method than trying to flatten the dimple in the stamped AF frame. (this tends to warp the frame) the other reason I used the brass stock is that I could not find two AF PA frames. Ton also supplies headlight lenses, porthole lenses, number board lenses and couplers for these units. Tom produces these items in small batches so if you want these items you need to act quickly when they are available. Some items he does not rerun. I hope some day he will produce passenger shark bodies or a FM C-Liner. The AM PA1 chassies and trucks would be about right for these units.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3416	From: JIM SYPHAX	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: HODSON SHELLS Es and SHARKS

These shells are in plastic with cast on grab details. The material is stable and the details are crisp. The overall casting is what I would call high quality. These shells are sturdy and will standup to operating on a regular basis. The castings must be washed to remove the mold release powder. Once this is done they take paint well.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3417	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: Chassis for Sharks

Lee Johnson wrote: > SNIP > The AM Baldwin S-12 has a center pin to center pin (this is same as your > CC) distance of 23'-0", so it is 2'-6" short from the prototype. Add two AAR type B trucks on the outside and you're on you way to modeling the four trucked Baldwin-Westinghouse "Blue Goose" gas turbine. It rode on four AAR type B trucks and the two inside trucks had 23'-3" truck centers. Plans for the whale shark are on page 158 in the Model Railroader Cyclopedia 2 on Diesel Locomotives (http://db.kalmbach.com/Catalog/action.lasso?-database=BookCatalog.fp3&-layout=Details&-response=/Catalog/Detail.html&-token=12747175&SKU=01033%20&Subcategory=Modeling%20References&-search) That's about the only thing I could find to use the AM S-12 chassis the for. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle S

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3418	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: AM Bald. S-12 Dimension

Since my last correspondence about the AM center pin dimension being a scale 23'-0", I found a diagram drawing of the S-12 in a NYC book. The center pin dimension given is 22'-8". This means the AM center pin dimension is basically right on the mark, and not off by the 2'-6" I had originallly indicated. In the same book I found the diagram drawing for the RF-16 (sharknose),and it shows a center pin distance of 28'-2". Therefore, the PRR and NYC (and thus the Mononghela and on to the D&H) all had the same center pin dimension. Lee Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3419	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis

In message <199906032140.RAA16888@...>, sscale@... writes >From: sscale@... > >> What can you use the AM Blw S12 chassis for and still be prototypically >> correct? >>-- >> Kelvin White > >I don't have measurements to work from, but on a "quick glance" >basis, the Baldwin chassis and a reworked Miller body might get you >somewhere close to an MLW RS-23. > >Stan Stokrocki >sscale@... > >- Thank you Stan I bought up 3# miller S2/4 bodies when I realised they were accurate and cheap, and not likely to around again. I'll let you know if it works out. Another possibility is B_B version of the pug nosed RSC-24, these were planned but never built. I did consider putting the AM S12 chassis under a GM Railmaster G8 - G12 body, the real G12s London & Port Stanley later used by CN on Vancouver Island had a strange lightweight export truck, whilst the G8s had a very long wheelbase BB truck - both engines could of been retrucked. Strange how all of the above are Canadian Prototypes. Its just a pity that Ron S didn't have the nouse to do a proper accurate chassis its uses would of been unlimited. -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3420	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/4/1999
Subject: Re: Not necesarily gospel

In message <375773A7.70E2CC1F@...>, Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> writes >From: Richard Snook <richard.snook@...> > >re RF-16 (sharknose) > >I have a suspicion that not all Sharks were ceated equally and when the >Omnicon models were developed, the protype shark used ..was actually >longer than the so-called published plans. Baldwin , from what I can >gather were amongst the greatest culprits on running changes to >locos...and they kept doing it with Diesels !! > >:~)) Richard The Omnicom sharks were produced following a detailed survey of the rusting hulks that are stored on the Escanaba & Lake Superior at Wells MI. However don't even think of trying to see the enngines the ELS is VERY ANTI-RAILFAN - just my darn luck that I choose to model it.! -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3421	From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: trucks

Recent discussion about Type B trucks and Alco PAs prompted Dave and Kathy Engle to report a Gilbert catalogue showing a GP-7 with Alco PA-1 trucks. I have such a monstrosity. The Engles also said that Gilbert had shortened the Alco trucks a couple of feet to get a compromise between the two. So I did some measuring and found that the trucks on my hybrid GP-7 have a wheelbase of 13 feet, compared with 15 feet eight inches for those on my Omnicon PA. Does anyone know anything more about any of this? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3422	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: trucks

Joe Pereira wrote: > So I did some measuring and found that the trucks on my hybrid GP-7 > have a wheelbase of 13 feet, compared with 15 feet eight inches for > those on my Omnicon PA. > > Does anyone know anything more about any of this? > AF GP-7 and PA trucks have the same wheelbase. In fact, the sideframes for each are interchangeable. Prototype PA trucks have a 15' wheelbase. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3423	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: trucks

At 10:06 AM 6/5/99 -0600, you wrote: >From: sigma@... > >Recent discussion about Type B trucks and Alco PAs prompted Dave and Kathy >Engle to report a Gilbert catalogue showing a GP-7 with Alco PA-1 trucks. > >The Engles also said that Gilbert had shortened the Alco trucks a couple >of feet to get a compromise between the two. My 2 cents. Lets face it. Gilbert, like all firms had to cut a few corners to keep cost in line so they "fudged" the truck design a bit to make it useful in a wide range of diesel applications. It's no worst than GM using the same platform or body shell to make ten different cars. Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3424	From: DrRonSLCC@aol.com	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Help on diagnosis of 312 loco

Hi S gaugers: I'm a novice and have been reading the comments for several weeks. I have appreciated the depth of knowledge and insight so many of you have. As a result I have learned a lot. However, I believe you might be able to help me diagnose the problem I'm experiencing with my 312 locomotive. That is why I decided to ask my question. Please understand that I'm not an expert when it comes to train repairs and I need some solid advice from you, the experts. Why does the loco seem to "slip" in power when the transformer power does not change? Sometimes it slips and comes to a complete stop. I've heard clicking sounds I suppose would be related to the reverse unit when going around turns. (I don't even know if that's supposed to happen or why it happens?) Anyway, when it comes to a complete stop, no increase in power will move it. I have to manually move it on the track until it finally "grabs hold" and begins to chug and smoke correctly. The unit was cleaned and was working great before. There were several times in pulling 10 cars when on a flat surface all the drive wheels were slipping and the train would slow down. However, I attributed that to an oily track, which when cleaned seemed to solve that problem. Do I need to replace the reverse unit? Or, what advice could you give me? I would greatly appreciate any help you could offer. Thanks for helping a fellow "S" gauger. Ron Oakes Florissant, MO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3425	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: Help on diagnosis of 312 loco

I am going to ignore my own advice from my signsture file bekow and offer a guess. It sounds very much like either a voltage pickup problem or intermittent connection to or in the reversing unit. I am basing this on your description of "clicking" when going around curves- this is what a reversing unit sounds like when powere is interrupted. Start with naking sure rails and tender pickup wheels are really clean and bright. Let us know how you make out. BTW, it's very normal for a 312 to slip with 10 cars if it doesn't have traction tires (pulmor). DrRonSLCC@... wrote: > > From: DrRonSLCC@... > > Hi S gaugers: > I'm a novice and have been reading the comments for several weeks. I have > appreciated the depth of knowledge and insight so many of you have. As a > result I have learned a lot. However, I believe you might be able to help me > diagnose the problem I'm experiencing with my 312 locomotive. That is why I > decided to ask my question. Please understand that I'm not an expert when it > comes to train repairs and I need some solid advice from you, the experts. > > Why does the loco seem to "slip" in power when the transformer power does not > change? Sometimes it slips and comes to a complete stop. I've heard > clicking sounds I suppose would be related to the reverse unit when going > around turns. (I don't even know if that's supposed to happen or why it > happens?) > > Anyway, when it comes to a complete stop, no increase in power will move it. > I have to manually move it on the track until it finally "grabs hold" and > begins to chug and smoke correctly. The unit was cleaned and was working > great before. There were several times in pulling 10 cars when on a flat > surface all the drive wheels were slipping and the train would slow down. > However, I attributed that to an oily track, which when cleaned seemed to > solve that problem. Do I need to replace the reverse unit? Or, what advice > could you give me? I would greatly appreciate any help you could offer. > Thanks for helping a fellow "S" gauger. > Ron Oakes > Florissant, MO > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Campaign 2000 is here! > http://www.onelist.com > Discuss your thoughts; get informed at ONElist. See our homepage. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3426	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: nouse? mouse? house? noose? norse? louse?

In message <37597490.73EA@...>, Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> writes >Its just a pity that Ron S didn't have the nouse to do a proper accurate >chassis its uses would of been unlimited. > >Kelvin White >Oxford England > >-------- > >I am not a good typist so I have learned to deal with typos. Reading >internet posts also teaches flexibility in spelling. > >However, I have tried various permutations of "nouse" - considered all >keyboard slips - even moved my fingers over one each way (mpidr - biyaw >?) and can't decode "nouse" in your context > >Could you give us a hint? - some exotic British slang? - a polite >substitute for "cojones"? > >Thanks for any help. (perhaps you should send it to S-trains - others >will want to know) > >Art Armstrong >aarmstro@... Well the Concise Oxford Dictionary spells it Nous from the Greek:...mind, intellect: (Colloq) common sence, gumption. Yep it looks likes Ron S lack all of these <G>. -- kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3427	From: JIM SYPHAX	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: HODSON SHELLS & PICTURES OF Es

Tom is hard to get in touch with. He is a full time corporate pilot and is gone alot. Keep trying he will eventually return your correspondence. He has produced shells for RF-16 Sharks, E7s, E8s, and a kit to convert the AF Hudson into a Dryfuss Hudson. The Dryfuss Hudson was available late 1998 and consisted of castings for the engine, tender and tender trucks. He has also produced shells for several modern EMD engines. Also power and dummy trucks for the E units. As for pictures of my Es and Sharks I will have to have some taken and will send them to you as soon as I can.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3428	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: AM S12 Chassis

I hate to tell you this but I have some of the Miller Alco S2/S4 molds and they are so far from accurate it is sicking. They are junk. Larry kelvin white wrote: > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> > > In message <199906032140.RAA16888@...>, > sscale@... writes > >From: sscale@... > > > >> What can you use the AM Blw S12 chassis for and still be prototypically > >> correct? > >>-- > >> Kelvin White > > > >I don't have measurements to work from, but on a "quick glance" > >basis, the Baldwin chassis and a reworked Miller body might get you > >somewhere close to an MLW RS-23. > > > >Stan Stokrocki > >sscale@... > > > >- > Thank you Stan > > I bought up 3# miller S2/4 bodies when I realised they were accurate and > cheap, and not likely to around again. I'll let you know if it works > out. Another possibility is B_B version of the pug nosed RSC-24, these > were planned but never built. I did consider putting the AM S12 chassis > under a GM Railmaster G8 - G12 body, the real G12s London & Port Stanley > later used by CN on Vancouver Island had a strange lightweight export > truck, whilst the G8s had a very long wheelbase BB truck - both engines > could of been retrucked. > > Strange how all of the above are Canadian Prototypes. > > Its just a pity that Ron S didn't have the nouse to do a proper accurate > chassis its uses would of been unlimited. > -- > Kelvin White > Oxford England > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Got an opinion? > http://www.onelist.com > Make it count! Sign up for the ONElist Weekly Survey now. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3429	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Alaska RR pictures

For those of you that like to see full size RR pictures. I just posted a few from Alaska. My travel log photos will be on a seperate page. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/alaska/page1.html -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3430	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: nouse? mouse? house? noose? norse? louse?

Sorry to but my nous in but don't you mean Ron B.? -- Keith THompson in Seattle kelvin white wrote: > > Well the Concise Oxford Dictionary spells it Nous from the > Greek:...mind, intellect: (Colloq) common sence, gumption. Yep it looks > likes Ron S lack all of these <G>. > -- > kelvin white

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3431	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Flyer trucks

I wish I had been paying attention when the discussion about American Flyer trucks began, although I probably wouldn't have understood much of it. The depth of my ignorance is rapidly being revealed. I now have the impression that my GP-7 with PA trucks is so commonplace that others are wondering why I'm so concerned about it. Now Dick Karnes informs me that GP-7 and PA trucks a la Gilbert have the same wheelbase and that in fact the sideframes are interchangeable.I must be the only Flyer owner in the world who didn't know that. I now realize, thanks to research prompted by Dick, that GP-7s had a wheelbase of nine feet. So much for my naive assumption of many years ago that Flyer diesels are more faithful to prototype than Flyer steam locos. Okay, so the Flyer trucks in question are accurate neither for the GP-7 nor the PA. That means, among other things, that I am no closer to having a reasonable representation of a Canadian National GP-7 without dynamic brakes. But I'll get there. Meanwhile Dick has come up with another minor mystery. He says that prototype PA trucks have a 15-foot wheelbase. So I checked my Omnicoan PA again. The truck wheelbase is still 15 feet eight inches. Did Omnicon take Gilbertian liberties with the facts? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3432	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer trucks

The correct truck wheel base for the PAs is 15' 6" Larry sigma@... wrote: > From: sigma@... > > I wish I had been paying attention when the discussion about American > Flyer trucks began, although I probably wouldn't have understood much > of it. > > The depth of my ignorance is rapidly being revealed. > > I now have the impression that my GP-7 with PA trucks is so commonplace > that others are wondering why I'm so concerned about it. > > Now Dick Karnes informs me that GP-7 and PA trucks a la Gilbert have the > same wheelbase and that in fact the sideframes are interchangeable.I > must be the only Flyer owner in the world who didn't know that. > > I now realize, thanks to research prompted by Dick, that GP-7s had a > wheelbase of nine feet. > > So much for my naive assumption of many years ago that Flyer diesels > are more faithful to prototype than Flyer steam locos. > > Okay, so the Flyer trucks in question are accurate neither > for the GP-7 nor the PA. That means, among other things, that I > am no closer to having a reasonable representation of a Canadian National > GP-7 without dynamic brakes. But I'll get there. > > Meanwhile Dick has come up with another minor mystery. He says that > prototype PA trucks have a 15-foot wheelbase. So I checked my Omnicoan PA > again. The truck wheelbase is still 15 feet eight inches. Did Omnicon take > Gilbertian liberties with the facts? > > Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Give back to your community through "Grow to Give." > http://www.onelist.com > Deadline is June 19. See homepage for details. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3433	From: DrRonSLCC@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/5/1999
Subject: Follow-up on the 312 Diagnosis Problem

Fellow S-Gaugians, Thanks so much for your rapid responses to my problem. I appreciate the many suggestions already given and things to check out. So far, I've determined the problem is NOT: 1) too stiff, too short wires between tender and cab; 2) Tender trucks are not out of shape...they stay in close contact with the track at all times; 3) The Drawbar is not bent or curved up; 4) There is no obstruction with the lead truck causing the front of the chassis to lift up slightly. I tested the 312 and tender on the track and now have more information: 1) The train does not stop at the same place on the track; 2) The drivers stop spinning but the power is still on (headlight on the engine stays on); 3) When the loco starts, it takes off really fast at first, then all of a sudden, it slows to an agonizing pace to almost a stop, then it stops. Additional power or throwing the throttle off and on and off and on does not get it to move anymore. 4) However, when I start the 312 in reverse, it chugs and smokes like it should and doesn't have any reduction in power. It runs great!....backwards, that is. But then by turning the throttle off to stop it going backwards, then on to go forwards, it starts off as described above, then slows to a crawl, then stops...only to remain there until I manually move it on the track. Perhaps this information will give you experts the clues you need to help this novice. I guess I could just run the loco backwards all the time....but, it really is more fun when it goes forward too. Any more suggestions, things to try, diagnosis, would be welcome. Thank you in advance for your help. Ron Oakes Florissant, MO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3434	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Follow-up on the 312 Diagnosis Problem

Ron, It sounds like two possibilities, and I give the first one the greatest credit. 1) Loose driver going out of quarter, or a driver out of quarter, not by much, just enough to bind up da woiks. 2) One finger on reverse unit not making good contact, probably top center. Look for arcing signs on the drum. Cure is usually to lift the pair of fingers off the unit and re-bend them to make a more solid contact. If the finger has gotten too warm, it will have lost its spring tension and you'll have to replace the set. Admittedly, this is diagnosis by remote, but those would be my two possibilities. Oops, wait, two more, Armature rubbing against brush tubes, or armature with shorts in the windings, get worse as it warms up. I'll probably think of something else after I send this! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3435	From: Gf3897@aol.com	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: SEmaphore Sam

anyone have a detailed exploded view of this accessory they'd be willing to e-mail or fax? thanks gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3436	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: nouse? mouse? house? noose? norse? louse?

In message <3759D39D.AA8E073B@...>, Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> writes >Sorry to but my nous in but don't you mean Ron B.? -- Keith THompson in >Seattle > >kelvin white wrote: >> >> Well the Concise Oxford Dictionary spells it Nous from the >> Greek:...mind, intellect: (Colloq) common sence, gumption. Yep it looks >> likes Ron S lack all of these <G>. >> -- >> kelvin white Thank you Keith Yep the wrong Ron -- Kelvin (red faced) White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3437	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: 312

In a message dated 6/6/99 5:24:10 AM, you wrote: <<3) When the loco starts, it takes off really fast at first, then all of a sudden, it slows to an agonizing pace to almost a stop, then it stops. Additional power or throwing the throttle off and on and off and on does not get it to move anymore. 4) However, when I start the 312 in reverse, it chugs and smokes like it should and doesn't have any reduction in power. It runs great!....backwards, that is. But then by turning the throttle off to stop it going backwards, then on to go forwards, it starts off as described above, then slows to a crawl, then stops.>> I vote for an armature (MAYBE field, but less likely) that needs rewinding. Problem appears only when warmed up. I've seen this happen before. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3438	From: Gale Hall	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Matchbox

Came across some 98 releases from Matchox, Mattel Wheels, a series called Classic Decades, 10 vehicles in the series #31-#40, 57 chevy Bel-Aire, 70 El Camino, 69 Camaro SS396, 33 Ford street rod, 56 Ford pick up, 57 chevy convertible, 70 Boss Mustang, Pontiac GTO, 71 Camaro and a 68 Mustang Cobra Jet. Got the 56 Ford pick up and it looks really good, price is nice too at 94 cents.......seems to be arriving at Wally World at this time......... gale hall _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3439	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: test

is this list still working

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3440	From: Gerbasi	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Complaints about AM products

I've been seeing a lot of complaints about sideframes that are 6 scale inches too short and what I consider minor faults with compliance with the prototype. I can't be the only one who remembers what the S scale world was like before AM. Whatever are your complaints about the products, it is a whole lot easier to modify an existing AM product to something closer to the prototype you are trying to reproduce than it is to build the whole thing from scratch (I've done both). Those of us who remember when most S scale layouts had wood sided reefers with Gene Walp sides and modified AF equipment (and nothing else) would hate to see the world go back to the pre-AM condition. Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3441	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Fw: AF 312 problem

---------- > From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton <bestofbreed@...> > To: DrRonSLCC@... > Subject: AF 312 problem > Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 12:10 PM > > A very common problem w/Gilbert engines, esp. the 312, is the drive wheel > linkages. Your finding that it runs better in reverse may provide a clue. > > > Turn the engine upside down (do you have a padded cradle to put it in while > you work?), and visually inspect the alignment and straightness of all the > drive gear. Gently straighten by hand, any curves or crooks in the rods. > Then detach the drive rod from the third pair of wheels. Spin the center > pair with your finger---does everything rotate smoothly, backward and > forward? When you give it a fast spin, the wheels should continue to > rotate a short while. > > Keep fiddling and fine tuning, GENTLY, and of course oil all the pivot > points. Fasten everything back together in one piece and attempt to run > the engine while off the track. You can set the tender on a "hot" section > of track and hold the engine off, or "hot wire" the engine and run while > upside down, running both backwards and forwards (write me for further > instructions.) >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3442	From: Ken Kinyon	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Brass Restoration

Please pardon this slightly off subject message, but I have been researching all over the web for this info. Are brass model locomotives etc usually varnished? What is a good cleaner? What would be a good product to strip off old varnish or lacquer or whatever is usually used. What would be a good product for new coating? Is there any good book available on this type of thing? Thanks, Ken ------------------------ Kenneth E. Kinyon 34 Princeton Circle Longmont, CO 80503-2106 Voice/fax (303) 684-0037 E-mail W7TS@... ALPCA #8339 ARRL-LM

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3443	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: test

I am not getting mail from this list is it still a working list Chris wb8ypo@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3444	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Follow-up on the 312 Diagnosis Problem

DrRonSLCC@... wrote more about his 312 problem. Sounds like mechanism bind to me. It's been about 40+ years since I looked inside an AF steam locomotive mechanism. But the problem sure sounds like a worn or missing armature thrust bearing. The rotating worm will thrust toward the rear when the locomotive runs forward toward the front when it backs up. You might find that one or more thin brass washers between the rear of the armature shaft and the motor end cap will cure the problem. I had a similar problem with the crank shaft in my 1967 Mercury Cougar (standard Ford 289 engine). By the time the shop figured out that the rear thrust bearing was shot, the piston dynamics had milled enough material away from the ever-more-misaligned crankshaft that the entire crankshaft had to be replaced. So if your locomotive's problem has persisted for a long time, you may find that the worm gear, or the worm itself (and thus the armature), needs to be replaced. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3445	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Restoration

Ken Kinyon wrote: > Are brass model locomotives etc usually varnished? Yes. With clear flat laquer. > What is a good cleaner? Mild detergent. > What would be a good product to strip off old varnish or lacquer or whatever is > usually used. Commercial laquer thinner. You will need to take the locomotive apart to avoid dousing the mechanism in the laquer thinner. > What would be a good product for new coating? Depends on what you want to do. I airbrush mine with Floquil model railroad paint. I've never tried to re-laquer brass. By the way, some brass has such a thin coat of laquer that it can be directly oversprayed. I have found, however, that most exhibit runs, sags, and pooling and so must be stripped before painting. > Is there any good book available on this type of thing? Probably. Floquil used to put out a booklet called "Painting Miniatures." There are also regularly-appearing "Paintshop" columns in Model Railroader magazine. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3446	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Stretch Limo

Hi All, I enjoy when Ted tells us about his latest die cast finds at Wal-Mart etc., but then get frustrated when I shop and all I can find is NASCAR, and cars in gaudy decoration for Pro wrestling and Country Music stars. At least 90% of those seem to be GM products. I have so many GM products on my layout now, one would think that was the only dealership in town. Today, however, I made a rare find at my local Toys-R-US. It was in what seemed to be a new Road Champ series, "Bigger...Is Better!" Most of the stuff was 1/43 or bigger and one tractor trailer set was HO or smaller. I have no idea why they were all called Bigger...Is Better! The one I found was a Mercedes stretch limo which looks about right for 1/64. (No, I won't take measurments to see how wide the car is or how wide the doors are. That takes the fun out of this for me.) The only problem is it is decorated in one of those gaudy schemes. This one has something to do with golf as the sides have big yellow letters saying "Hole in One." For $3 I'm willing to do a little work to have a stretch limo at my station waiting for Neil Young to arrive on the Silver Flash to announce that Lionel has decided to make only S Gauge toy trains which will be marketed in Wal Mart, Target, K-Mart and an upgraded line to be sold only in hobby shops. For those of you who live in the Mid-Atlantic area, our club will run a combined layout with the Baltimore Area American Flyer Club at the July Greenberg Show in Chantilly Virginia. Come by for a visit if you are in the area. It's gonna be hot this summer, so stay inside and build some trains. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3447	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: onelist archives

> From: sigma@... > > I wish I had been paying attention when the discussion about American > Flyer trucks began, although I probably wouldn't have understood much > of it. > You can go to the Onelist archives, and look at the Digest issues of anything that you missed. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Photos At Play http://www.kodak.com/go/play ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3448	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: AM and KD

I have started going back to my old AM cars and converting them to KD 802 (S Scale) couplers. Is there a "right way" to do this? Here's the problems: 1. The KD802 mounting screw is too small for the AM mounting hole. 2. There is only one AM mounting screw hole. 3. On the AM gon, the edge of the body is slightly lower than the mounting plane of the frame. Here's what I've been doing. Is there something easier/better? Remove center post from the KD802. The AM coupler mounting screw is almost as large as the OD of this post, so I install the centering spring against the screw instead of against the post. Drill a hole in the cover the same size as the AM mounting screw. Attach the assembly. For the gon, I install a track spike under the back part of the KD802 so that it sets level. Because there is only one screw, I put a bit of Ambroid adhesive between the KD cover and the frame to keep the coupler body from twisting. Crude, yeahhhhhh! Does it work! Sort of! Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Photos At Play http://www.kodak.com/go/play ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3449	From: sscale@miro.bestweb.net	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Restoration

> What would be a good product to strip off old varnish or lacquer > or whatever is usually used. I soak the model in vinegar. The coating tends to flake off in sheets, without the gummy residue that solvents may leave. This also gives the surface some "tooth" for painting. Just don't do this for too long a time. > By the way, some brass has such a thin coat of laquer that it can be > directly oversprayed. I have found, however, that most exhibit runs, > sags, and pooling and so must be stripped before painting. I had a brass model on which the clear coat could be scratched off by a fingernail. While some coatings might serve as a decent prime coat, it's hard to be sure. I always remove it. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3450	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Complaints about AM products

AMEN! > Gerbasi wrote: > > I've been seeing a lot of complaints about sideframes that are 6 scale > inches too short and what I consider minor faults with compliance with > the prototype. I can't be the only one who remembers what the S scale > world was like before AM. > > Whatever are your complaints about the products, it is a whole lot > easier to modify an existing AM product to something closer to the > prototype you are trying to reproduce than it is to build the whole > thing from scratch (I've done both). > > Those of us who remember when most S scale layouts had wood sided > reefers with Gene Walp sides and modified AF equipment (and nothing > else) would hate to see the world go back to the pre-AM condition. > > Tom Gerbasi -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3451	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Thanks, keep them coming!!

To those who have already replied thanks..thankyou very much indeed!! To those who might think "why bother"...let me explain. Whilst I and my little outfit might have limited means..IT IS my intention to do what I can , where feasible. If you don't let someone know your wants and thoughts...they'll never know..its as simple as that...YOU miss out..not the next guy..because they let someone know!! Not meant to sould like a hassling , overbearing ogre...am just trying to get as broad a knowledge base as possible. So far there have been a few surprises, some by inclusion...some by thier absence!! Even if I can't use this info...I WILL endeavor to put it in the hands of those also interested. Later when sufficient info gathered I also get it published on a page somewhere (Paul and others elsewhere) AGAIN I ask you to be quite , well non limmiting in your answers..why leave a space blank..put in a "want" even if you think it outlandish...you might find your not as alone in your whims as you suspect!! cheers :~)) Richard Respond to survey at richard.snook@... (or after June 25 richard_snook@...) snail mail to Survey Sunny Creek Models 13 McAlister St Frankston, AUSTRLIA, 3199

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3452	From: Milorod@aol.com	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 262

Can someone give me a way to contact Tom Hodson (e-mail or snail mail or phone). Thanks Milo Rodriguez (561) 793-3459 or milorod@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3453	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Stretch Limo

Wayne: Those Pro Wrestling cars can be stipped and re-painted. It's a good one-evening project. I have purchased several of the older versions. Same holds true for the customized jobs. Good luck Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3454	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: AM Gondola, again

Whilst asking about KD 802 mounting methods for the AM gondola, I'll also ask if anybody had any ladder mounting techniques, other than "glue it on"! Seems for sturdiness of the ladders, it would be nice if they were pinned on, but the disadvantage of this is that the pins would show through on the inside unless one were extremely careful with drilling. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Photos At Play http://www.kodak.com/go/play ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3455	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Central Valley address

Hi all Anyone got a contact for Central Valley (ala bridge makers in HO) prefer eMail address but snail will do. I want to sell them a bridge!!!!!! (well fill them in on a concept I have that might interest them!! And anyone else for that matter!!) cheers :~)) Richard (this came directly from interest in the survey by the way)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3456	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Layout

I am building a new layout and was wondering is there someone who designs layouts? Like to send the measurements of the area to work with (ie along the walls). I have a map of the area but what to see if it is useable. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy Canada ----

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3457	From: Mike Shea	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: AM and KD

Ted, Many of the AM cars have these "features." What I've done is to file away the portion of the body that prevents the coupler box from sitting flat. Also, I ignore AM's single hole and drill 2 new ones in line with the side holes of the coupler box, using the box as a template. A #60 drill works well. I'm much more comfortable with 2 screws holding that box that I am with 1. mhrreast@... wrote: > I have started going back to my old AM cars and converting > them to KD 802 (S Scale) couplers. Is there a "right way" > to do this? > > Here's the problems: > 1. The KD802 mounting screw is too small for the AM mounting > hole. > 2. There is only one AM mounting screw hole. > 3. On the AM gon, the edge of the body is slightly lower > than the mounting plane of the frame. > > Here's what I've been doing. Is there something easier/better? > > Remove center post from the KD802. The AM coupler mounting > screw is almost as large as the OD of this post, so I install the > centering spring against the screw instead of against the post. > > Drill a hole in the cover the same size as the AM mounting screw. > Attach the assembly. For the gon, I install a track spike under > the back part of the KD802 so that it sets level. > > Because there is only one screw, I put a bit of Ambroid adhesive > between the KD cover and the frame to keep the coupler body > from twisting. > > Crude, yeahhhhhh! > Does it work! Sort of! > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > Photos At Play > http://www.kodak.com/go/play > > ________________________________________________________________ > Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use > from Juno, the world's second largest online service. > Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html. -- -Mike Shea, Rochester, NY (USA) Member, National Association of S-Gaugers Rochester Area S-Gaugers Superintendent, Plattsburgh & Saranac Lake Railroad

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3458	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Weekend Report

Some weekend news from the PPSSW (actually covers a couple of weekends) The PPSSW has met at Tom Lennon's twice and is making great progress on the Lake Woebegon Switching layout. It will be the NMRA Switching Contest layout until Friday Morning and then it will arrive at the NASG Convention for us to operate on during our convention. It will be a great ambassador of all the great product available in S and will demonstrate how well S operates. The layout was designed by Sylas Kayle and features a neat little switching cassette inspired by Dave's visit to our S Scale friends in England. We built it to .8835 to keep everyone happy. Memorial Day the PPSSW spent about eight hours working on Dave's layout, putting in freeze boards and other layout support structure. A visit to Dave's layout will be quite a treat for the NMRA and NASG folks. Also Memorial Day weekend the PPSSW spent a long day working on the Minnesota Heartland. We enjoyed the symphony of the SOO Line Railroad running through the back yard all day, challenging any sound system that we may incorporate. As a testimony to building solid bench work and sub roadbed, scenery construction saw Ken and Dave on TOP of the layout at the same time, flinging Hydrocal. Make sure you plan your stay to include the Convention picnic on Sunday. Don't I remember that someone was going to bring a Allegheny to run on the layout? The PPSSW also spent a Saturday helping Walt and more additional days are planned. Walt's layout is the "youngest" of the group, Ken and Dave's layouts have been under construction over 20 years. Being the youngest, does not mean it is a slouch. You will see a truly outstanding layout taking shape, with several scenes that are really inspiring. This layout cries for a couple of Northern Pacific SD-45's sitting in the sun outside the Mississippi Street Diesel shops. Well enough for now, see you in July! Ken Zieska

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3459	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 262

Last phone # I had was708-587-1116 The 708 may have changed Larry Milorod@... wrote: > From: Milorod@... > > Can someone give me a way to contact Tom Hodson (e-mail or snail mail or > phone). > Thanks > Milo Rodriguez > (561) 793-3459 > or > milorod@... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Have you entered ONElist's "Grow to Give" program? > http://www.onelist.com > Deadline is June 19. Join now to win $5000 for your charity of choice. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3460	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: NASG Election Results

Hi Folks, The results of the recent NASG elections are now posted on the NASG website: http://trainweb.com/nasg/ Thanks to all who participated. Craig O'Connell NASG Website Director

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3461	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/6/1999
Subject: Re: AM and KD

> From: mhrreast@... > > I have started going back to my old AM cars and converting > them to KD 802 (S Scale) couplers. Is there a "right way" > to do this? I simply drill through the floor where the AM coupler-mounting hole is. I use a drill bit slightly smaller than the mounting screw. If it turns out to be too loose, I use a machine screw, secured with a nut on the topside of the floor. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3462	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Stretch Limo

Bruce Pilcher wrote: Snip > Those Pro Wrestling cars can be stipped and re-painted. It's a good > one-evening project. I have purchased several of the older versions. > Same holds true for the customized jobs. > Good luck > Bruce WHOA! Before you strip the $3.99+ wrestling or country music cars, look for their equivalent in the Racing Champions Street Wheels line for .49. About the only difference is the Street Wheels have ultra-gauddy paint jobs and speed wheels. You're stripping the paint and the wheels can be replaced with Athearn HO semi truck front wheels. Just trying to save your money for the important stuff -- trains! -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3463	From: MICHAEL J. HOLLAND	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: AM and KD

Ted, I use the two outside screw holes for mounting the coupler on the AM gons. My couplers were never not level. Don't cut the center post out of the coupler box, because your screw will have the spring find a way around it and bing it up. I tried this in HO and I had a lot of problems. Michael J. Holland President of Genesee & Great Western Member of Rochester Area S Gaugers Member of NASG Member of NMRA ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3464	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: NASG Election

Congratulations to John and Glen on their election to NASG office as Eastern V.P. and secretary. Both are frequent contributors to this list. Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3465	From: David Horn	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: 312

One way to check the linkage theory is to run it without any push or side rods attached. Otherwise, I have a similar problem with a 293. It runs slower forward than in reverse, and progressively so the more I run it. I've tried different commutator re-facing techniques, brush housings, washer combinations, etc. And have inspected driver quartering and other mechanical aspects of the engine. One conclusion was the armature needs to be rewound, and that may still be the culprit. However, I tried different armatures. Of the four different armatures I tried, only one acted favorably (actually faster forward than reverse). The one thing I found really sped up the motor with any of the other three armatures was if I slip a narrow tongue of metal (about 1/8" by 3") into the right hand side brush clip (there's a slot) and apply pressure to the top of half of the brush while the motor is running - - varooooom, the thing suddenly races with rpm's. I added pressure to that brush with springs and a slug of old brush, but only gained a small percentage of the speed I observed with the "tongue test". Let me know if you find out what's haunting yours. I'll do the same. My next steps are to try new forward and aft motor bushings, replace/realign the right brush tube, and rewind an armature.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3466	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Complaints about AM products

I was reading these messages and the following thought occurred: Borrowing from the end of "It's a Wonderful Life": What would the world of S-gauge have been like if AM had never existed. -----Original Message----- From: Charles E. Smith <cesmith@...> To: Gerbasi <@...> Cc: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Complaints about AM products >From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > >AMEN! > >> Gerbasi wrote: >> >> I've been seeing a lot of complaints about sideframes that are 6 scale >> inches too short and what I consider minor faults with compliance with >> the prototype. I can't be the only one who remembers what the S scale >> world was like before AM. >> >> Whatever are your complaints about the products, it is a whole lot >> easier to modify an existing AM product to something closer to the >> prototype you are trying to reproduce than it is to build the whole >> thing from scratch (I've done both). >> >> Those of us who remember when most S scale layouts had wood sided >> reefers with Gene Walp sides and modified AF equipment (and nothing >> else) would hate to see the world go back to the pre-AM condition. >> >> Tom Gerbasi > >-- >Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) >and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > >"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool >than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >How has ONElist changed your life? >Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3467	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: A.M. Souther 4-6-2 loco

Does anyone know current value of this item? It is D.C. Scale with low production # 080. Comrs with chug @ smoke. Never ran or out of box . Just need idea of valueThanks Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3468	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Follow-up on the 312 Diagnosis Problem

- Greeting'S - Ron Oakes describes a problem that seems familiar. Worn and/or sticking motor brushes. Any locomotive exhibiting this symptom usually gets the brush springs moved aside, the brushes out, and a lot of cleaning done on brushes and holders. Sometimes I have to take off the brush holder to get at the brushes to administer this cleaning. Hope this helps. Cheer'S Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3469	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Newfie Layout Design

In message <00a001beb0a5$d2dddb80$cd64a8d8@baracing>, Andrew Baird <baracing@...> writes >From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > >I am building a new layout and was wondering is there someone who designs >layouts? Like to send the measurements of the area to work with (ie along >the walls). I have a map of the area but what to see if it is useable. >Thank You >Andrew Baird >Nfld Rlwy >Canada >---- Before taking on a commission like this I would ask the 'client' to gather up all the prototype information, decide on two or three must have 'signature' prototype scenes that are essential for capturing the feel and memory of the prototype, ask about whether the layout was sincere, ie one train track in scene only or a John Allen bowl of spagetti (apologies to any JA fans)! Ask about train lengths, numbers of trains to be run, staging, min radius, max gradients, number of operators planned for and a host of other things - If you know these things you half way to designing your own layout anyway - Get hold of John Armstrong book it will teach you a lot..... -- Kelvin (Architect) White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3470	From: David Horn	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: 312 problems

With persistently fussy diesels I simply swap them over to latter production LTI chassis (come with factory installed axle bushings). Work great! I put new life into my 470 and 371 this way after wasting hours of dinking around with centering, and everything else (short of adding bushings because I've heard that shouldn't really be attempted without a gig). I've got Barker's book, the Complete Guide by K-line, three volumes by Greenberg, plus others. Very helpful references, but there's nothing like the human net to help. I also had this fwd/rev speed problem with an Atlantic, and finally threw in towel, popped in "new" armature and voila runs fine. Maybe it's just that the last two "new" (new in terms of not having tried them in that engine before) armatures I've tried with this 293 just happen to have the same problem as the original. Then again, the armature out of my 343 makes it fly, as it does when in the 343. I appreciate the round spring point, but have used new, used, and no difference. The tongue helps me know I've got an engine tuned to it's optimum - - spring tension, brushes, etc. Usually if I push in either tube there's not difference or a slowing in speed. But with this 293, some pressure directed via the tongue to the upper half of the right brush (on the left it makes no difference), causes at least a doubling of it's speed. Growling I've found is caused by something creating more or less play than there ought to be - - a gear (worm or drive) centering or wear problem, or axle play (worn axle bushings/holes) forcing mis-alignment. -----Original Message----- From: noramz@... (Norman Maunz)@BEST Sent: Monday, June 07, 1999 8:21 PM To: DrRonSLCC@...; David Horn Cc: cesmith@...; djdewey@...; Trains16@...; portlines@...; jarcho@...; neil_trump@...; bestofbreed@...; rtg@... Subject: 312 problems To Ron and David, It seems like all the possible causes of your problem have been covered by one or more of the above listed folks. Since I have not seen all of their messages, there may be some repetition here. Regarding the brush and spring situation, I"ll tell you what I know from common sense, experience, and also from Tom Barker's "American Flyer S Gauge Operating & Repair Manual". I highly recommend the Barker book, published by Greenburg, and as far as I know is still available. It has helped me a lot. You should also read Tom Jarcho's comments about it on the S list, digest #251, message 12. For example, I rebushed two of my diesels and found that it's not as easy as it sounds, but using my own mechanical ingenuity ended up with two much better running engines. On the other hand, I have converted my six engines(steamers, PA, and GP-7 to full DC (including rectifier in engine) according to his diagrams and they all run beautifully. Back to brushes and springs. Ron, you mentioned the spring stuck in the tube. The spring should be perfectly round so it's free to move in the tube, at least free enough so it would fall out if the brush tube is held vertically. The brushes with a slot in the end are not intended for the 312 motor, but as far as I know should work OK. I think they are for the other type motors that have leaf type springs (I'm not sure if that's the right name for them). I had some in my 322 Hudson for a while, but I don't remember having any problem. The correct brushes for the 312 and 322 are the shouldered brushes. I guess the shoulder helps keep the spring end from jamming against the brush tube. When installing brushes, the flat end always goes toward the commutator and the shouldered end or slot goes toward the spring. When I need to reposition an armature I just move washers from one end to the other, but check to see that the winding sections are centered back and forth in the field. David, I liked your experiment with the metal tongue. I do things like that, too. However, if everything is right, that should make it run worse, not better. But, obviously, everything else is NOT right. Question is, what is it that's not right. I have also experienced engines that run better backwards. I can't remember all the things I tried, and I don't think I ever came to a really definite conclusion as to what was wrong. In one case I installed another armature with a better commutator face and I think that did help. On diesels you can adjust the centering of the armature in the field which affects speed one way or the other. On steam engines there's no way to make those adjustments, except to replace bearings if they're worn. Also on diesels you can bend the brush holders and move the brushes, but not on the steam engines. How do you intend to adjust your brush tubes on the steam engine? I have a question I guess is related to all of this. My Hudson I mentioned before is a growler. It sounds like a mad dog when it runs. What causes that? Don't say it's the gears, because this is the engine I'm regearing the chuff rate on and all of the gears are now plastic, except for the original worm. I have replaced the armature with a new, never before used one and that didn't help. Could it be the field? Well, I'm presently rewinding the field so you'll have to wait for my answer on that one. Anybody else have any ideas? That's the Hudson I talked about on the S list not too long ago, about increasing the chuff rate. I had it running for a few days and it looks fantastic at track level! I got a 3.4 chuff per wheel revolution ratio by putting together some gears I found in my junk box. However, being a new project, it still has some problems, 1. the growling motor I mentioned before (it was because this was my worse running engine that I decided to try this experiment with this engine), 2. due to the reduced gearing to the drivers, top speed is only 30 scale mph. I can solve the speed problem by rearranging the gears. The growling? I don't know. I hope some of this helps. I'm always glad to help others and to be helped with our S problems. I'll be converting to DCC sometime, but I think those metal AF steam engines with smoke and choo-choo are the greatest! Norman Crescent City S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3471	From: FKopetz@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Possible Mid-50's AF "Crusader" set lineup...?

Hello: I'm a newbie to the list, and am just getting back into AF collecting after a hiatus of many years. I don't have any of my old catalogs or a Greenberg's book, but I was just curious about the following... I've managed to enter two auctions on e-Bay for some AF stuff. One is a mid-50's AF RDG Atlantic, #307. I'd like to know if this model had smoke and choo-choo or came without. I've also entered a bid on a lot of cars that consist of the following: #803 ATSF "Chief" boxcar #925 Gulf tankcar #805 Pennsy gondola #806 AF caboose. Would I have just, by some chance lined myself up to purchase the components of one of Gilbert's mid 50's"Crusader" catalogued sets with this loco and rolling stock line-up? And, if not, which car(s) would I need to get my hands on to make up such a set? I do know from reading an article about 1957 Flyer in Classic Toy Trains that apparently the ATSF boxcar formed part of such a set in 1956, because the article states that it was replaced with the D&RGW "Cookie Box" boxcar for 1957. I know the Atlantic was pretty common...both of my old childhood Flyer sets (one of which I've just managed to find and purchase, I'm waiting for shipping on it now) came with the same Atlantic but with different numbers, namely, #21160, RDG for a 1960 uncatalogued set I've just managed to purchase and #21107 PRR Atlantic that came with a 1965 "All-Aboard" set (The Pioneer 800). Both those Atlantics (which I got rid of in the early 80's and later regretted) were great runners, along with a 322 Hudson I had managed to pick up in the late 70's. I also had a 21165 "Casey Jones" engine that I picked up as a separate sale item...it basically ran like garbage. One last question....I'm looking at buying a 312 PRR K-5 similar to the one giving that person so many problems on this board? Is it a reliable engine to purchase in reference to being a good runner? And, finally, which of of Gilbert's diesels usally ran best (for when I turn my sights towards picking up a diesel to go with my growing steam roster) I've never had one before, and am curious as to which one was the most reliable? Later, Fkopetz@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3472	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Schwan's One More Time

Can somebody tell me what the Proofs of Purchase look like on the Schwan's boxes, so that I can have my Minnesota relatives send me some, so that I can send in for that Schwan's delivery truck? Thanks, Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Photos At Play http://www.kodak.com/go/play ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3473	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: AM RS3 repaint and conversion

Question: Has anyone here stripped and repainted an American Models plastic diesel? With all the undec RS3s sold out, I'd like to buy an NH or GN unit and repaint it C&NW or CGW. Any suggestions or comments? Also, how difficult would it be to convert the AM RS3 to an RS2? The major difference between the two is a fuel fill in the RS2 cab and a battery box ahead of the cab on the RS3. Also, is there or has there ever been a brass RS2 in S-uperior scale? Paul Schneider, still looking to buy a brass RSD4 or 5 to be painted C&NW. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3474	From: Cheri221@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's One More Time

For the proofs of purchase, I used the ends of the boxes with the food item code on it...such as Chip and Mint Cones, #049, or Hot Wings, #517. We buy so much of this stuff...it was easy to have the proofs of purchase! Cheri and John Auburn, Washington

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3475	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS3 repaint and conversion

Hi Paul: I think Roadmaster has RS2s. It seems easy to strip the paint off AM freight cars so I suspect the locos would be the same. Apparently brakefluid works; I used undec it. I always thought the difference between an RS2 and RS3 was the location of the exhaust stack. But life is never that simple. The parts you talk about in your message may be available as details parts. check with Bill Wade or Ron Sebastien. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3476	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: AM Gondola, again

> Hi Ted: > I redid my AM gondola using left over ladders and rungs from PRS kits. looks > much better. also I mounted 802s on the bottom drilling new holes to match the > two side scre holders on the KD box and it came out fine for coupler > height just as is.. > cheers > > mhrreast@... wrote: > > > From: mhrreast@... > > > > Whilst asking about KD 802 mounting methods for the > > AM gondola, I'll also ask if anybody had any ladder > > mounting techniques, other than "glue it on"! > > > > Seems for sturdiness of the ladders, it would be nice > > if they were pinned on, but the disadvantage of this is > > that the pins would show through on the inside unless > > one were extremely careful with drilling. > > > > Ted Larson > > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > > Photos At Play > > http://www.kodak.com/go/play > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ONElist members are using Shared Files in great ways! > > http://www.onelist.com > > Are you? If not, see our homepage for details. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3477	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Possible Mid-50's AF "Crusader" set lineup...?

In a message dated 6/7/99 5:30:40 PM, FKopetz@... writes: << One is a mid-50's AF RDG Atlantic, #307. I'd like to know if this model had smoke and choo-choo or came without. I've also entered a bid on a lot of cars that consist of the following: #803 ATSF "Chief" boxcar #925 Gulf tankcar #805 Pennsy gondola #806 AF caboose. Would I have just, by some chance lined myself up to purchase the components of one of Gilbert's mid 50's"Crusader" catalogued sets with this loco and rolling stock line-up? >> The 307 does not have smoke or choo-choo. The two catalogued sets with this engine are 5410T "Crusader" with a 905 log flat and a 938 caboose. The other is the 5500T "New Crusader Freight" with a 940 Wabash hopper, a 923 IC reefer, and a 938 caboose. There were numerous uncatalogued sets (many of which are not listed in Greenberg's Vol. 3) so it would not be impossible to have found these trains together in that fashion. The 307 was sold from 1954 to 1957. <<And, if not, which car(s) would I need to get my hands on to make up such a set? I do know from reading an article about 1957 Flyer in Classic Toy Trains that apparently the ATSF boxcar formed part of such a set in 1956, because the article states that it was replaced with the D&RGW "Cookie Box" boxcar for 1957.>> These sets had a 303 Altantic with smoke and choo-choo. <<One last question....I'm looking at buying a 312 PRR K-5 similar to the one giving that person so many problems on this board? Is it a reliable engine to purchase in reference to being a good runner?>> 312's are great engines and normally are very dependable. The Hudsons are also worth your attention. All of the Pacifics and the Hudsons have very similar power chassis (although there were manufacturing changes over the years.). <<And, finally, which of of Gilbert's diesels usally ran best (for when I turn my sights towards picking up a diesel to go with my growing steam roster) I've never had one before, and am curious as to which one was the most reliable? >> Both the one motor GP-7's or the twin motor Alcos are worth having. There are also single motor Alco PA's. I prefer the two motor Alco's diesels because they have more pulling power. AF deisels can be wonderful, but be careful to purchase one with good axle bearings in the power trucks. Worn axle bearings are the major source of trouble in these engines. Steer clear of the Baldwin switchers and the hideous F-9's for now. Have fun! RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3478	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Possible Mid-50's AF "Crusader" set lineup...?

FKopetz, The 307 has reverse unit and pul-mor, and headlight, nothing else (well, OK a motor!), the most common, I think, AF engine & the one my brother's started with, so it's also my beginning. the "7" is the AF signal for no smoke, etc. (287, 307, 297). I'd have to look up the Crusader sets to tell you what came with them, but it's common for the 307 to come with a gon (Frisco or N&W, usually), an IC reefer and a caboose, other options that are as common is a 925 tank car, sometimes a Hopper, plain. That's just from experience, there might be documentation that differs & I won't argue with it! 312 is a good loco, although the other Pacifics are too, and often less expensive. The simpler valve train does provide for few potential problems, but handled with care I haven't noticed it! The diesel to watch out for is the Baldwin, they are notoriously cranky. Although there are 'tricks' to tame them. The thing to look for when buying a 'Dismal' is how much play is in the wheel bearings--shake the wheels, look for up and down play. A little is normal, a lot usually means it's rebushing time. You can also look at the sliding contacts for wear to get an idea of how much "play time" a loco has seen. The Alcos and GPs share the same drive train. Some Alcos have two motors, some have one. Some have pulmore, some have none! (uh oh, this is sounding like a rhyming thing!). Find some AF people, ask questions, observe, and have fun!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3479	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Spare Parts

How does one go about getting spare items (ie ladder kits for the PRS 40ft box)? Obviously without buying other complete kits. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy Canada

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3480	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: Schwan's Proof of Purchase

Gee Ted, My Schawan's guy, Dave Mosher, was just here and together we couldn't figure out what an "official" proof of purchase is. We dug through Dave's truck looking for one and all we can guess is it's the logo from a Schwan's package like the one on the Schwan's web site at http://www.schwans.com/images/schwanslogo1.gif. I hope this helps. Dave said he'll let me know more when he asks around at the depot tomorrow. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle mhrreast@... wrote: > > From: mhrreast@... > > Can somebody tell me what the Proofs of Purchase > look like on the Schwan's boxes, so that I can have > my Minnesota relatives send me some, so that I > can send in for that Schwan's delivery truck? > Thanks, > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > Photos At Play > http://www.kodak.com/go/play > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How many communities do you think join ONElist each week? > http://www.onelist.com > More than 5,000! Create yours now! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3481	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/7/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS3 repaint and conversion

Hi Paul, The best stripper I've found for the AM shells is Floquil/Polly S Easy Lift Off (ELO). In the Bay Area, your best bet will be Franciscan's, San Antonio Hobby Shop, or The Train Shop to have it in stock. The 8 oz. bottle is no. 270-542143 and the 16 oz. bottle is no. 270-552144. The important thing is to follow the instructions. On my first try I used it like Scalecoat remover by dunking the shell (in two 16 oz. bottle's worth) and not much happened. When I removed the shell and started pouring the ELO back in the bottles, I looked over and the shell looked like it had first degree burns with blistering. That's when I finally read the instructions and found I could've done the whole shell with less than one 8 oz. bottle. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle. "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Question: Has anyone here stripped and repainted an > American Models plastic diesel? With all the undec > RS3s sold out, I'd like to buy an NH or GN unit and > repaint it C&NW or CGW. Any suggestions or comments? > > Also, how difficult would it be to convert the AM RS3 > to an RS2? The major difference between the two is a > fuel fill in the RS2 cab and a battery box ahead of > the cab on the RS3. > > Also, is there or has there ever been a brass RS2 in > S-uperior scale? > > Paul Schneider, still looking to buy a brass RSD4 or 5 > to be painted C&NW. > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Got an opinion? > http://www.onelist.com > Make it count! Sign up for the ONElist Weekly Survey now. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3482	From: David Horn	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: 307, 312, diesel

I'd go 303, 302 AC, or 4-piece multi-part 302 (Type IV of Type II, with the extra screw into the boiler at the end of the valve rod guide for added reliability) for Atlantic runn'n fun. The 303 has smoke/cc/pulmor, 302 AC has sm/cc no pulmor but diecast body and built like a tank, 302 multi-cast has sm/cc hand rails die-cast body, but no pulmor. The 293 Pacific is one of the smoothest, best balanced runners around. Hudsons are fun, but I recommend finding one with large motor. Northerns are a beastly blast but best with large layouts/long trains (although mine runs fine on a 5'X7'). 343's are a kick. Actually two recent purchases for me that far exceeded my fun-to-run expectations were a 21168 Casey with sm/cc/pm/headlight, and 21085 (amazingly smooth and fast, I think due to its low center of gravity and split chassis design that allows thorough cleaning and greasing of axles, makes me wonder what the LARGE barrel-comm motor engines such as the 21115 are like ). 312's, especially earlier ('46-49 with axle bushings), are great. My 312 with Smoke In Tender (SIT) by itself is one of the fastest engines I own. At full throttle it will easily flip off the tracks in curves (so I back off), but without pulmor can't haul as much as other slightly slower engines with pulmor. Smok'n whilel in idle is cool (even blows perfect smoke rings!). Diesels - - ditto - - single motor GP7 would be my first purchase, but twin motor Alco worth having in your line up. Be careful to look for axle hole/bushing wear, brush wear/alignment, and brittle wires. All can be repaired/replaced, but do require your time and attention to get right. -----Original Message----- From: S-Trains@onelist.com@BEST Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 1999 9:43 AM To: S-Trains@onelist.com Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 265 Congratulations to "INDIE-GRRL," our latest ONElist of the Week. http://www.onelist.com Visit our homepage and share with us how ONElist is changing YOUR life! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm There are 19 messages in this issue. Topics in today's digest: 1. Re: AM and KD From: "MICHAEL J. HOLLAND" <mjhtrains@...> 2. NASG Election From: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> 3. 312 From: David Horn <David_Horn@...> 4. Re: Complaints about AM products From: "Roy Hoffman" <rhoffman@...> 5. A.M. Souther 4-6-2 loco From: Anormal1@... 6. Follow-up on the 312 Diagnosis Problem From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...> 7. Newfie Layout Design From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> 8. Re: 312 problems From: David Horn <David_Horn@...> 9. Re: Possible Mid-50's AF "Crusader" set lineup...? From: FKopetz@... 10. Schwan's One More Time From: mhrreast@... 11. AM RS3 repaint and conversion From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> 12. Re: Schwan's One More Time From: Cheri221@... 13. Re: AM RS3 repaint and conversion From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> 14. Re: AM Gondola, again From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> 15. Re: Possible Mid-50's AF "Crusader" set lineup...? From: RBubeck327@... 16. Re: Possible Mid-50's AF "Crusader" set lineup...? From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> 17. Spare Parts From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> 18. Re: Schwan's Proof of Purchase From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> 19. Re: AM RS3 repaint and conversion From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 1 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 08:52:30 EDT From: "MICHAEL J. HOLLAND" <mjhtrains@...> Subject: Re: AM and KD Ted, I use the two outside screw holes for mounting the coupler on the AM gons. My couplers were never not level. Don't cut the center post out of the coupler box, because your screw will have the spring find a way around it and bing it up. I tried this in HO and I had a lot of problems. Michael J. Holland President of Genesee & Great Western Member of Rochester Area S Gaugers Member of NASG Member of NMRA ________________________________________________________________ Get secure free e-mail that you don't need Web access to use from Juno, the world's second largest online service. Download your free software at http://www.juno.com/getit.b.html. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 05:55:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> Subject: NASG Election Congratulations to John and Glen on their election to NASG office as Eastern V.P. and secretary. Both are frequent contributors to this list. Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:22:29 -0400 From: David Horn <David_Horn@...> Subject: 312 One way to check the linkage theory is to run it without any push or side rods attached. Otherwise, I have a similar problem with a 293. It runs slower forward than in reverse, and progressively so the more I run it. I've tried different commutator re-facing techniques, brush housings, washer combinations, etc. And have inspected driver quartering and other mechanical aspects of the engine. One conclusion was the armature needs to be rewound, and that may still be the culprit. However, I tried different armatures. Of the four different armatures I tried, only one acted favorably (actually faster forward than reverse). The one thing I found really sped up the motor with any of the other three armatures was if I slip a narrow tongue of metal (about 1/8" by 3") into the right hand side brush clip (there's a slot) and apply pressure to the top of half of the brush while the motor is running - - varooooom, the thing suddenly races with rpm's. I added pressure to that brush with springs and a slug of old brush, but only gained a small percentage of the speed I observed with the "tongue test". Let me know if you find out what's haunting yours. I'll do the same. My next steps are to try new forward and aft motor bushings, replace/realign the right brush tube, and rewind an armature. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:05:52 -0400 From: "Roy Hoffman" <rhoffman@...> Subject: Re: Complaints about AM products I was reading these messages and the following thought occurred: Borrowing from the end of "It's a Wonderful Life": What would the world of S-gauge have been like if AM had never existed. -----Original Message----- From: Charles E. Smith <cesmith@...> To: Gerbasi <@...> Cc: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Complaints about AM products >From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > >AMEN! > >> Gerbasi wrote: >> >> I've been seeing a lot of complaints about sideframes that are 6 scale >> inches too short and what I consider minor faults with compliance with >> the prototype. I can't be the only one who remembers what the S scale >> world was like before AM. >> >> Whatever are your complaints about the products, it is a whole lot >> easier to modify an existing AM product to something closer to the >> prototype you are trying to reproduce than it is to build the whole >> thing from scratch (I've done both). >> >> Those of us who remember when most S scale layouts had wood sided >> reefers with Gene Walp sides and modified AF equipment (and nothing >> else) would hate to see the world go back to the pre-AM condition. >> >> Tom Gerbasi > >-- >Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) >and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > >"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool >than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >How has ONElist changed your life? >Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 14:01:11 EDT From: Anormal1@... Subject: A.M. Souther 4-6-2 loco Does anyone know current value of this item? It is D.C. Scale with low production # 080. Comrs with chug @ smoke. Never ran or out of box . Just need idea of valueThanks Mike S. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 15:31:47 -0400 From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...> Subject: Follow-up on the 312 Diagnosis Problem - Greeting'S - Ron Oakes describes a problem that seems familiar. Worn and/or sticking motor brushes. Any locomotive exhibiting this symptom usually gets the brush springs moved aside, the brushes out, and a lot of cleaning done on brushes and holders. Sometimes I have to take off the brush holder to get at the brushes to administer this cleaning. Hope this helps. Cheer'S Rhett ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:32:28 +0100 From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> Subject: Newfie Layout Design In message <00a001beb0a5$d2dddb80$cd64a8d8@baracing>, Andrew Baird <baracing@...> writes >From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > >I am building a new layout and was wondering is there someone who designs >layouts? Like to send the measurements of the area to work with (ie along >the walls). I have a map of the area but what to see if it is useable. >Thank You >Andrew Baird >Nfld Rlwy >Canada >---- Before taking on a commission like this I would ask the 'client' to gather up all the prototype information, decide on two or three must have 'signature' prototype scenes that are essential for capturing the feel and memory of the prototype, ask about whether the layout was sincere, ie one train track in scene only or a John Allen bowl of spagetti (apologies to any JA fans)! Ask about train lengths, numbers of trains to be run, staging, min radius, max gradients, number of operators planned for and a host of other things - If you know these things you half way to designing your own layout anyway - Get hold of John Armstrong book it will teach you a lot..... -- Kelvin (Architect) White Oxford England ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:18:19 -0400 From: David Horn <David_Horn@...> Subject: Re: 312 problems With persistently fussy diesels I simply swap them over to latter production LTI chassis (come with factory installed axle bushings). Work great! I put new life into my 470 and 371 this way after wasting hours of dinking around with centering, and everything else (short of adding bushings because I've heard that shouldn't really be attempted without a gig). I've got Barker's book, the Complete Guide by K-line, three volumes by Greenberg, plus others. Very helpful references, but there's nothing like the human net to help. I also had this fwd/rev speed problem with an Atlantic, and finally threw in towel, popped in "new" armature and voila runs fine. Maybe it's just that the last two "new" (new in terms of not having tried them in that engine before) armatures I've tried with this 293 just happen to have the same problem as the original. Then again, the armature out of my 343 makes it fly, as it does when in the 343. I appreciate the round spring point, but have used new, used, and no difference. The tongue helps me know I've got an engine tuned to it's optimum - - spring tension, brushes, etc. Usually if I push in either tube there's not difference or a slowing in speed. But with this 293, some pressure directed via the tongue to the upper half of the right brush (on the left it makes no difference), causes at least a doubling of it's speed. Growling I've found is caused by something creating more or less play than there ought to be - - a gear (worm or drive) centering or wear problem, or axle play (worn axle bushings/holes) forcing mis-alignment. -----Original Message----- From: noramz@... (Norman Maunz)@BEST Sent: Monday, June 07, 1999 8:21 PM To: DrRonSLCC@...; David Horn Cc: cesmith@...; djdewey@...; Trains16@...; portlines@...; jarcho@...; neil_trump@...; bestofbreed@...; rtg@... Subject: 312 problems To Ron and David, It seems like all the possible causes of your problem have been covered by one or more of the above listed folks. Since I have not seen all of their messages, there may be some repetition here. Regarding the brush and spring situation, I"ll tell you what I know from common sense, experience, and also from Tom Barker's "American Flyer S Gauge Operating & Repair Manual". I highly recommend the Barker book, published by Greenburg, and as far as I know is still available. It has helped me a lot. You should also read Tom Jarcho's comments about it on the S list, digest #251, message 12. For example, I rebushed two of my diesels and found that it's not as easy as it sounds, but using my own mechanical ingenuity ended up with two much better running engines. On the other hand, I have converted my six engines(steamers, PA, and GP-7 to full DC (including rectifier in engine) according to his diagrams and they all run beautifully. Back to brushes and springs. Ron, you mentioned the spring stuck in the tube. The spring should be perfectly round so it's free to move in the tube, at least free enough so it would fall out if the brush tube is held vertically. The brushes with a slot in the end are not intended for the 312 motor, but as far as I know should work OK. I think they are for the other type motors that have leaf type springs (I'm not sure if that's the right name for them). I had some in my 322 Hudson for a while, but I don't remember having any problem. The correct brushes for the 312 and 322 are the shouldered brushes. I guess the shoulder helps keep the spring end from jamming against the brush tube. When installing brushes, the flat end always goes toward the commutator and the shouldered end or slot goes toward the spring. When I need to reposition an armature I just move washers from one end to the other, but check to see that the winding sections are centered back and forth in the field. David, I liked your experiment with the metal tongue. I do things like that, too. However, if everything is right, that should make it run worse, not better. But, obviously, everything else is NOT right. Question is, what is it that's not right. I have also experienced engines that run better backwards. I can't remember all the things I tried, and I don't think I ever came to a really definite conclusion as to what was wrong. In one case I installed another armature with a better commutator face and I think that did help. On diesels you can adjust the centering of the armature in the field which affects speed one way or the other. On steam engines there's no way to make those adjustments, except to replace bearings if they're worn. Also on diesels you can bend the brush holders and move the brushes, but not on the steam engines. How do you intend to adjust your brush tubes on the steam engine? I have a question I guess is related to all of this. My Hudson I mentioned before is a growler. It sounds like a mad dog when it runs. What causes that? Don't say it's the gears, because this is the engine I'm regearing the chuff rate on and all of the gears are now plastic, except for the original worm. I have replaced the armature with a new, never before used one and that didn't help. Could it be the field? Well, I'm presently rewinding the field so you'll have to wait for my answer on that one. Anybody else have any ideas? That's the Hudson I talked about on the S list not too long ago, about increasing the chuff rate. I had it running for a few days and it looks fantastic at track level! I got a 3.4 chuff per wheel revolution ratio by putting together some gears I found in my junk box. However, being a new project, it still has some problems, 1. the growling motor I mentioned before (it was because this was my worse running engine that I decided to try this experiment with this engine), 2. due to the reduced gearing to the drivers, top speed is only 30 scale mph. I can solve the speed problem by rearranging the gears. The growling? I don't know. I hope some of this helps. I'm always glad to help others and to be helped with our S problems. I'll be converting to DCC sometime, but I think those metal AF steam engines with smoke and choo-choo are the greatest! Norman Crescent City S Gaugers ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:30:01 EDT From: FKopetz@... Subject: Re: Possible Mid-50's AF "Crusader" set lineup...? Hello: I'm a newbie to the list, and am just getting back into AF collecting after a hiatus of many years. I don't have any of my old catalogs or a Greenberg's book, but I was just curious about the following... I've managed to enter two auctions on e-Bay for some AF stuff. One is a mid-50's AF RDG Atlantic, #307. I'd like to know if this model had smoke and choo-choo or came without. I've also entered a bid on a lot of cars that consist of the following: #803 ATSF "Chief" boxcar #925 Gulf tankcar #805 Pennsy gondola #806 AF caboose. Would I have just, by some chance lined myself up to purchase the components of one of Gilbert's mid 50's"Crusader" catalogued sets with this loco and rolling stock line-up? And, if not, which car(s) would I need to get my hands on to make up such a set? I do know from reading an article about 1957 Flyer in Classic Toy Trains that apparently the ATSF boxcar formed part of such a set in 1956, because the article states that it was replaced with the D&RGW "Cookie Box" boxcar for 1957. I know the Atlantic was pretty common...both of my old childhood Flyer sets (one of which I've just managed to find and purchase, I'm waiting for shipping on it now) came with the same Atlantic but with different numbers, namely, #21160, RDG for a 1960 uncatalogued set I've just managed to purchase and #21107 PRR Atlantic that came with a 1965 "All-Aboard" set (The Pioneer 800). Both those Atlantics (which I got rid of in the early 80's and later regretted) were great runners, along with a 322 Hudson I had managed to pick up in the late 70's. I also had a 21165 "Casey Jones" engine that I picked up as a separate sale item...it basically ran like garbage. One last question....I'm looking at buying a 312 PRR K-5 similar to the one giving that person so many problems on this board? Is it a reliable engine to purchase in reference to being a good runner? And, finally, which of of Gilbert's diesels usally ran best (for when I turn my sights towards picking up a diesel to go with my growing steam roster) I've never had one before, and am curious as to which one was the most reliable? Later, Fkopetz@... ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 19:13:58 EDT From: mhrreast@... Subject: Schwan's One More Time Can somebody tell me what the Proofs of Purchase look like on the Schwan's boxes, so that I can have my Minnesota relatives send me some, so that I can send in for that Schwan's delivery truck? Thanks, Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Photos At Play http://www.kodak.com/go/play ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 17:01:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> Subject: AM RS3 repaint and conversion Question: Has anyone here stripped and repainted an American Models plastic diesel? With all the undec RS3s sold out, I'd like to buy an NH or GN unit and repaint it C&NW or CGW. Any suggestions or comments? Also, how difficult would it be to convert the AM RS3 to an RS2? The major difference between the two is a fuel fill in the RS2 cab and a battery box ahead of the cab on the RS3. Also, is there or has there ever been a brass RS2 in S-uperior scale? Paul Schneider, still looking to buy a brass RSD4 or 5 to be painted C&NW. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:07:09 EDT From: Cheri221@... Subject: Re: Schwan's One More Time For the proofs of purchase, I used the ends of the boxes with the food item code on it...such as Chip and Mint Cones, #049, or Hot Wings, #517. We buy so much of this stuff...it was easy to have the proofs of purchase! Cheri and John Auburn, Washington ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 20:19:03 -0400 From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> Subject: Re: AM RS3 repaint and conversion Hi Paul: I think Roadmaster has RS2s. It seems easy to strip the paint off AM freight cars so I suspect the locos would be the same. Apparently brakefluid works; I used undec it. I always thought the difference between an RS2 and RS3 was the location of the exhaust stack. But life is never that simple. The parts you talk about in your message may be available as details parts. check with Bill Wade or Ron Sebastien. cheers ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 20:22:00 -0400 From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> Subject: Re: AM Gondola, again > Hi Ted: > I redid my AM gondola using left over ladders and rungs from PRS kits. looks > much better. also I mounted 802s on the bottom drilling new holes to match the > two side scre holders on the KD box and it came out fine for coupler > height just as is.. > cheers > > mhrreast@... wrote: > > > From: mhrreast@... > > > > Whilst asking about KD 802 mounting methods for the > > AM gondola, I'll also ask if anybody had any ladder > > mounting techniques, other than "glue it on"! > > > > Seems for sturdiness of the ladders, it would be nice > > if they were pinned on, but the disadvantage of this is > > that the pins would show through on the inside unless > > one were extremely careful with drilling. > > > > Ted Larson > > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > > Photos At Play > > http://www.kodak.com/go/play > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ > > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ONElist members are using Shared Files in great ways! > > http://www.onelist.com > > Are you? If not, see our homepage for details. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 21:44:02 EDT From: RBubeck327@... Subject: Re: Possible Mid-50's AF "Crusader" set lineup...? In a message dated 6/7/99 5:30:40 PM, FKopetz@... writes: << One is a mid-50's AF RDG Atlantic, #307. I'd like to know if this model had smoke and choo-choo or came without. I've also entered a bid on a lot of cars that consist of the following: #803 ATSF "Chief" boxcar #925 Gulf tankcar #805 Pennsy gondola #806 AF caboose. Would I have just, by some chance lined myself up to purchase the components of one of Gilbert's mid 50's"Crusader" catalogued sets with this loco and rolling stock line-up? >> The 307 does not have smoke or choo-choo. The two catalogued sets with this engine are 5410T "Crusader" with a 905 log flat and a 938 caboose. The other is the 5500T "New Crusader Freight" with a 940 Wabash hopper, a 923 IC reefer, and a 938 caboose. There were numerous uncatalogued sets (many of which are not listed in Greenberg's Vol. 3) so it would not be impossible to have found these trains together in that fashion. The 307 was sold from 1954 to 1957. <<And, if not, which car(s) would I need to get my hands on to make up such a set? I do know from reading an article about 1957 Flyer in Classic Toy Trains that apparently the ATSF boxcar formed part of such a set in 1956, because the article states that it was replaced with the D&RGW "Cookie Box" boxcar for 1957.>> These sets had a 303 Altantic with smoke and choo-choo. <<One last question....I'm looking at buying a 312 PRR K-5 similar to the one giving that person so many problems on this board? Is it a reliable engine to purchase in reference to being a good runner?>> 312's are great engines and normally are very dependable. The Hudsons are also worth your attention. All of the Pacifics and the Hudsons have very similar power chassis (although there were manufacturing changes over the years.). <<And, finally, which of of Gilbert's diesels usally ran best (for when I turn my sights towards picking up a diesel to go with my growing steam roster) I've never had one before, and am curious as to which one was the most reliable? >> Both the one motor GP-7's or the twin motor Alcos are worth having. There are also single motor Alco PA's. I prefer the two motor Alco's diesels because they have more pulling power. AF deisels can be wonderful, but be careful to purchase one with good axle bearings in the power trucks. Worn axle bearings are the major source of trouble in these engines. Steer clear of the Baldwin switchers and the hideous F-9's for now. Have fun! RB ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 18:24:31 -0700 From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Re: Possible Mid-50's AF "Crusader" set lineup...? FKopetz, The 307 has reverse unit and pul-mor, and headlight, nothing else (well, OK a motor!), the most common, I think, AF engine & the one my brother's started with, so it's also my beginning. the "7" is the AF signal for no smoke, etc. (287, 307, 297). I'd have to look up the Crusader sets to tell you what came with them, but it's common for the 307 to come with a gon (Frisco or N&W, usually), an IC reefer and a caboose, other options that are as common is a 925 tank car, sometimes a Hopper, plain. That's just from experience, there might be documentation that differs & I won't argue with it! 312 is a good loco, although the other Pacifics are too, and often less expensive. The simpler valve train does provide for few potential problems, but handled with care I haven't noticed it! The diesel to watch out for is the Baldwin, they are notoriously cranky. Although there are 'tricks' to tame them. The thing to look for when buying a 'Dismal' is how much play is in the wheel bearings--shake the wheels, look for up and down play. A little is normal, a lot usually means it's rebushing time. You can also look at the sliding contacts for wear to get an idea of how much "play time" a loco has seen. The Alcos and GPs share the same drive train. Some Alcos have two motors, some have one. Some have pulmore, some have none! (uh oh, this is sounding like a rhyming thing!). Find some AF people, ask questions, observe, and have fun!! S' David D. ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 17 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 22:42:23 -0700 From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> Subject: Spare Parts How does one go about getting spare items (ie ladder kits for the PRS 40ft box)? Obviously without buying other complete kits. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy Canada ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 18 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 21:35:05 -0700 From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> Subject: Re: Schwan's Proof of Purchase Gee Ted, My Schawan's guy, Dave Mosher, was just here and together we couldn't figure out what an "official" proof of purchase is. We dug through Dave's truck looking for one and all we can guess is it's the logo from a Schwan's package like the one on the Schwan's web site at http://www.schwans.com/images/schwanslogo1.gif. I hope this helps. Dave said he'll let me know more when he asks around at the depot tomorrow. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle mhrreast@... wrote: > > From: mhrreast@... > > Can somebody tell me what the Proofs of Purchase > look like on the Schwan's boxes, so that I can have > my Minnesota relatives send me some, so that I > can send in for that Schwan's delivery truck? > Thanks, > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > Photos At Play > http://www.kodak.com/go/play > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How many communities do you think join ONElist each week? > http://www.onelist.com > More than 5,000! Create yours now! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ Message: 19 Date: Mon, 07 Jun 1999 21:46:44 -0700 From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> Subject: Re: AM RS3 repaint and conversion Hi Paul, The best stripper I've found for the AM shells is Floquil/Polly S Easy Lift Off (ELO). In the Bay Area, your best bet will be Franciscan's, San Antonio Hobby Shop, or The Train Shop to have it in stock. The 8 oz. bottle is no. 270-542143 and the 16 oz. bottle is no. 270-552144. The important thing is to follow the instructions. On my first try I used it like Scalecoat remover by dunking the shell (in two 16 oz. bottle's worth) and not much happened. When I removed the shell and started pouring the ELO back in the bottles, I looked over and the shell looked like it had first degree burns with blistering. That's when I finally read the instructions and found I could've done the whole shell with less than one 8 oz. bottle. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle. "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Question: Has anyone here stripped and repainted an > American Models plastic diesel? With all the undec > RS3s sold out, I'd like to buy an NH or GN unit and > repaint it C&NW or CGW. Any suggestions or comments? > > Also, how difficult would it be to convert the AM RS3 > to an RS2? The major difference between the two is a > fuel fill in the RS2 cab and a battery box ahead of > the cab on the RS3. > > Also, is there or has there ever been a brass RS2 in > S-uperior scale? > > Paul Schneider, still looking to buy a brass RSD4 or 5 > to be painted C&NW. > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Got an opinion? > http://www.onelist.com > Make it count! Sign up for the ONElist Weekly Survey now. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ ____________________________________________________________________________ ___

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3483	From: John Foley	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: NASG Elections

Message: 2 Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 05:55:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> Subject: NASG Election Congratulations to John and Glen on their election to NASG office as Eastern V.P. and secretary. Both are frequent contributors to this list. Joe Hi Joe Thank you very much. And thanks to all the folks who supported me in this election. I have enjoyed working to promote S gauge and the NASG and hope to continue. I would like to say welcome to Glenn Ritter as our new NASG secretary. Glenn I know will be a great addition to the BOT. Also I would like to say thanks to Jamie Bothwell our present secretary for all his hard work. And Joe thank you and the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers for promoting S gauge and the NASG at various train shows. Your Friend John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3484	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: Spare Parts

Andrew, Contact PRS, they are very helpful to there customers. In the past I have bought cars directly from them and asked for some extra detail parts, which they did without any problems. They probably sell detail parts seperatly. Take care, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3485	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Marker lights

Hi everyone, I am looking for some (sutable for) S scale marker lights. I hope i have the correct term. I'm looking for those 4 sided lamps on a short stand. The kind that you would find sitting on the pilot of a steam loco. ? Thanks for any help, kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3486	From: Pete Ervin	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: 312 problem diagnosis

Regarding the 312 that doesn't run well very long going forward, if you think the problem is in the linkage, here is a way to check it that is more sensitive than pushing it with your hand or finger (at least it is more sensitive for me): First, remove the boiler shell and disconnect the worm gear so that the engine can be pushed along the track by hand. Then glue a piece of springy foam material (you can use the kind that seals air conditioners set in windows) on a block of wood or a coupler height gauge. Very slowly push the chassis with the foam. When the linkage binds, the foam compresses. Now you know where the tight spot is. Repeat the test to find other tight areas and to confirm your original diagnosis of where the tight spot is. Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3487	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS3 repaint and conversion

Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> wrote: > I always thought the difference between an RS2 and RS3 was the location of > the exhaust stack. But life is never that simple. The variation in exhaust stacks has nothing to do with distinguishing RS-2s from RS-3s. It has to do with a significant change in turbochargers, which was so compellingly superior that just about all older locomotives received the upgraded turbo quite quickly (perhaps Alco paid for it under warranty?). Anyway, if the stack is longitudinally oriented and offset from center, it's an original air-cooled turbocharger. This is the way all RS-3s were built before about 1954 (which is to say just about all RS-3s, since production really dropped off after the early 50s). With the greatly improved water-cooled turbocharger, the stack is oriented laterally and centered. Existing locomotives with air- cooled turbos were upgraded almost instantly: I have not seen a photo of any RS-3 with air-cooled turbo dated later than about 1955. The few surviving RS-3s today all have water-cooled turbos. Is there anybody out there who paid attention to Diesel sounds in the ealry 50s? Any recordings? I've always been curious if the air-cooled turbo sounded any different from the water-cooled "whistle" we younger Alco fans love so much. As for RS-2s, they were rated only 1500hp (compared with the 1600hp RS-3), and this difference may be related to the turbocharger. Maybe RS-2s didn't have turbos at all? What I do know is that the 1500hp engine in an RS-2 is the same as the FA-1, while the 1600hp engine in an RS-3 is the same as the FA-2. --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling englij@... | R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D | Route of the Whippet ---------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3488	From: David Horn	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: sorry about the mis-reply

I'm very sorry. No excuses, but we're switching over from Lotus Notes to MS Outlook. Notes allowed me to reply with no attachment, Outlook requires the user to delete the previous message's contents, or start and send a new message. Old dog, new tricks. I will be more careful with this. Thanks for understanding. Sorry again for the inconvenience to you. Great list. Thanks!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3489	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: Spare Parts

In message <01b201beb171$b00522e0$cd64a8d8@baracing>, Andrew Baird <baracing@...> writes >From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > >How does one go about getting spare items (ie ladder kits for the PRS 40ft >box)? >Obviously without buying other complete kits. >Thank You >Andrew Baird >Nfld Rlwy >Canada > Drop John Verser at PRS a line state clearly what spurues from what kits you need - I'm sure he'll be able to supply at nominal cost. -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3490	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: Marker lights

would the marker lights on the SHS caboose be useable? cheers Keith B. Thompson - Sun wrote: > From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun) > > Hi everyone, > > I am looking for some (sutable for) S scale > marker lights. I hope i have the correct term. > I'm looking for those 4 sided lamps on a short > stand. The kind that you would find sitting on > the pilot of a steam loco. ? > > Thanks for any help, > kbt > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How has ONElist changed your life? > Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3491	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: Spare Parts

Kelvin White and others suggested writing PRS about spare parts. I actually needed some missing pieces from a couple of PRS kits. Wrote more than a year. Never got a reply. Hope you have better luck. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3492	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: Spare Parts

I've never had a problem. But I call him. I've never written to him. Phone number is 541-267-6664. Dick Karnes Alex Binkley wrote: > From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> > > Kelvin White and others suggested writing PRS about spare parts. I actually > needed some missing pieces from a couple of PRS kits. Wrote more than a year. > Never got a reply. > Hope you have better luck. > cheers > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > What do lizards and rock music have in common? > http://www.onelist.com > They both have communities at ONElist. Find yours today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3493	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Schwans lable

Hi Ted and everyone, On most packages the proof of purchase is the bar code. However, the company usually prints the words "proof of purchase" under whatever the proof of purchase is. I guessed when I sent mine in to Schwans that it was the bar code. They must have accepted that, they cashed my check. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3494	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: PRS

I take it that John Verser doesn't have an e-mail address? Calling can be a hit-or-miss situation and a bit expensive. Surface mail is somewhat troublesome, if questions arise. It would take a couple of weeks to resolve via snail-mail. Has anybody seen the MDT reefers or Seaboard double door box car, or the NYC 10'6" box yet? Later Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3495	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: PRS

Hi all Well let try this one again Has any one tried to do a S-scale layout, out side. and yes I have seen the mag gardon layout and it is for G scale Chris wb8ypo@... ps I found out onelist put a block on my server on the 1st of june os I missed a lot of ans, Its fix now thanks all

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3496	From: Chris & Kathleen	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: layouts outside

Hi all Well let try this one again Has any one tried to do a S-scale layout, out side. and yes I have seen the mag gardon layout and it is for G scale Chris wb8ypo@... ps I found out onelist put a block on my server on the 1st of june os I missed a lot of ans, Its fix now thanks all

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3497	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: layouts outside

> > Has any one tried to do a S-scale layout, out side. and yes I have seen the > mag gardon layout and it is for G scale > > Chris > wb8ypo@... Well - - - since no one else has responded; I imagine some has tried "S"guage outside. I just do not know who. I suppose it is feasable. The track would have to be off of the ground enough so dirt won't get kicked onto it. Then there is grass clippings from the lawn mower. And bird droppings. The track could not be steel because of rust. You would have to solder a jumper wire at each joint to maintain electrical connection. Are you willing to take in the layout before winter ? If not the track would have to be mounted in such a way as to avoid frost heaves. Will the colors and plastic on your equipment withstand the suns rays. In most cases , NO. Out door items are designed to be tough. Decals will be history pretty quick. Perhaps if an old plastic shell was left outside for a while to see what happens would be a good idea However if you aren't going to run long hours or have lots of shade. Don't forget the hazard of animals. One would have to experiment with a small layout to see what happens. Big hint. Do not use your best equiptment in your experiments. Anyway - -It could be done with great care in choosing what you use. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3498	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Bushing AF Diesels

I've seen several comments in S-Trains recently about the reluctance to re-bush diesels. A friend of mine has a bushing jig kit and bushings. We have used his drill press and mine (mine is a Craftsman floorstand model) and achieved wonderful results in re-bushing worn-out diesels, both Geeps and Alcos. If anyone has questions, feel free to write. By the way, the jig kit and a few dozen bushings costs about $65.00 Re-bush two engines, and the purchase more than pays for itself. The project takes 1 1/2 to 2 hours per engine. Regards, Steve Pendleton bestofbreed@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3499	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Re: PRS

Hello, I do not know if anyone has built an S gauge railway out of doors, but I know that in the UK there have been quite a few built in British 00 gauge, 4mm = 1ft, with a track gauge of 16.5mm. Also some large N gauge railways have allso been built. So if one can build a railway in these smaller scales, then S gauge should not be a problem. A good reference whould be "The Garden Railway Manual" by C.J. Freezer. I bought my copy from Amozon.com. You did not say if you where thinking of building in scale, hi-rail or Flyer. A good source commerical track for hi-rail or Flyer would be the American Models track system and the Gargarves stainless steel rail mounted on the plastic ties. In scale, nickel silver track on plastic ties would probably be a good choice. In the smaller scales in the UK they uses PECO nickel silver rail w/plastic ties. There was a famous 0 gauge outdoor layout in the UK, The Crewchester Railway, it used clockwork(wind up) powered locos and ran regualr trains on a realalistic schedule. The points(turnouts) and the railway siginals were operated by rod linkage just like the big boys. If you decide to build out of doors keep us informed. Take care, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3500	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: BL-2

Think I asked this before!! There was in the past an attempt by Omnicon , I think to put out a BL-2 Why didn't the BL-2 get to market (sounds like a joke really !!...because the chicken had crossed the road!! sorry ..lost the plot AGAIN) Was it the gentleman's unfortunate passing...or some other commercial type reason?? TIA >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3501	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/8/1999
Subject: Screwed blue

To all:I had aproublemwith shiny replacement screws, now I'm so new to this list as not to know if this proublem has been discussed before. My idea was to dip the screws into gun blueing, cost 2.50 6oz left in 6-8 min. and then rinsed through a strainer well they came out fine as would other small parts that are hard to paint. Now I have an ethical problem ;THISalso works on black locos where they have worn spots.Is this an acceptable practice as the locos seem to have been anodized or plated black and not painted Iwould like to hear the pros and cons on this subject Mike S. P,S, I also have plans for a power supple for about 15.00 a throttle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3502	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Re: PRS

Dear Bruce, No, John does not have e-mail or a web page or even a fax machine. He does have an answer machine though and you can leave a message. The MDT reefers or Seaboard double door box car, and the NYC 10'6" are bing worked on now and are expected this summer. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3503	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Saw Mill

Back around 1957 I purchased an A.F. saw mill, but hardly ever used it before other things started to occupy my time. Now some 40 years later I am getting it out to run on the lay-out. However, as good as it looks I am having a slight problem. It does not push the lumber far enough out of the shed so it can be picked up.Anyone out there have similar problems & found a cure? Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3504	From: Bill Clark	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Re: Saw Mill

The problem is often the wood. Sand it lightly to be real smooth, maybe put a bit of polish on it. I replaced my wook with some cut by a friend that was really hard and smooth, runs faultlessly. Bill At 06:37 AM 06/09/1999 -0600, you wrote: >From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > >Back around 1957 I purchased an A.F. saw mill, but hardly ever used it >before other things started to occupy my time. Now some 40 years later I >am getting it out to run on the lay-out. However, as good as it looks I >am having a slight problem. It does not push the lumber far enough out of >the shed so it can be picked up.Anyone out there have similar problems & >found a cure? > >Mike Leahy > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Got an opinion? >http://www.onelist.com >Make it count! Sign up for the ONElist Weekly Survey now. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3505	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: OUTDOOR "S"

An outdoor S layout would look great. Use Gargraves track with plastic ties, the new S Helper Service track system or American Models Code 148. Sand the top of rails when they get rusty. There are track cleaner cars with sandpaper, you would have to push it ahead of the locomotive. Keep the trains inside during rain, snow, sleet or hail. Just run them out of a basement window. You can build or buy plastic S scale buildings. Thank you for your votes and congratulations. I am looking forward to the added work and responsibility that comes with being NASG secretary. I have been secretary to smaller local organizations so I am up to the challange. Since I am in 2 National organizations and their conventions are both the same week (Nashville and St. Paul), my wife and I are trying to appear at both. I will see some of you in St. Paul for sure. I am having a picnic for the Philadelphia area clubs on August 7 so if you are in the area, do drop in. Call 215-513-0527 for directions or I can E-Mail them to you. If you want to know more about my layout or our local club just E-Mail me off the digest. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3506	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Re: PRS

Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> wrote: > Has anybody seen the MDT reefers or Seaboard double door box car, or the > NYC 10'6" box yet? I thought all of these have been out for quite some time now. I know I bought two of the NYC 10'6" box cars at the Worcester NASG convention nearly a year ago. Or are you asking about a newer variation since then? --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling englij@... | R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D | Route of the Whippet ---------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3507	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: sawmill

There are a few things that can cause the boards in the American Flyer Sawmill to not get kicked out fully. Observe the action of the kicker without lumber to get a feel for what is going on. The kicker plate which pushes out the boards is pushed itself by an arm that comes out of the mechanism. This arm can become slightly bent since it is soft. Bend it in slight increments outwards to make the plate go farther out. If there is excess lateral play in the kicker, the stud which holds it in place may be loose. The spring may be damaged so that it holds back or interferes with the kick plate's travel. Sanding the lumber smooth may also help sometimes. I am preparing a Roundhouse on the sawmill, wooden you know? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3508	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Re: PRS

Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> wrote: > Has anybody seen the MDT reefers or Seaboard double door box car, or the > NYC 10'6" box yet? Is the NYC 10'6" box car different from the two I bought at the Worcester NASG convention nearly a year ago? Is there a reissue with different numbers, or is this a whole new animal? Century green/Cigar Band perhaps? --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling englij@... | R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D | Route of the Whippet ---------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3509	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: screwed

Last night I picked up the Flyer 644 crane I bought recently. To my dismay, I heard something tiny plunge to the floor. It turned out to be two small screws that apparently keep the crane body attached to the frame. A friend tells me this is a common problem as the plastic gets old and brittle. This may seem like a ridiculously simple question, but how do I re-attach the screws? If they fell out that easily they're probably stripped, right? So how can I place them so they don't fall out again (so the body stays attached to the frame)? Paul Schneider San Francisco, CA _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3510	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/9/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS3 repaint and conversion

Suggest compare RS-2 and RS-3 photos, look for differences in battery box locations, cab window placements, centered versus all the way to one end. Jeff English wrote: > From: "Jeff English" <englij@...> > > Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> wrote: > > > I always thought the difference between an RS2 and RS3 was the location of > > the exhaust stack. But life is never that simple. > > The variation in exhaust stacks has nothing to do with > distinguishing RS-2s from RS-3s. It has to do with a significant > change in turbochargers, which was so compellingly superior that > just about all older locomotives received the upgraded turbo quite > quickly (perhaps Alco paid for it under warranty?). > Anyway, if the stack is longitudinally oriented and offset from > center, it's an original air-cooled turbocharger. This is the way all > RS-3s were built before about 1954 (which is to say just about all > RS-3s, since production really dropped off after the early 50s). > With the greatly improved water-cooled turbocharger, the stack is > oriented laterally and centered. Existing locomotives with air- > cooled turbos were upgraded almost instantly: I have not seen a > photo of any RS-3 with air-cooled turbo dated later than about > 1955. The few surviving RS-3s today all have water-cooled turbos. > Is there anybody out there who paid attention to Diesel sounds > in the ealry 50s? Any recordings? I've always been curious if the > air-cooled turbo sounded any different from the water-cooled > "whistle" we younger Alco fans love so much. > As for RS-2s, they were rated only 1500hp (compared with the > 1600hp RS-3), and this difference may be related to the > turbocharger. Maybe RS-2s didn't have turbos at all? > What I do know is that the 1500hp engine in an RS-2 is the > same as the FA-1, while the 1600hp engine in an RS-3 is the same > as the FA-2. > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Jeff English Troy, New York > Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling > englij@... > > | R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D | > Route of the Whippet > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Give back to your community through "Grow to Give." > http://www.onelist.com > Deadline is June 19. See homepage for details. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3511	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: PRS

Dear Jeff, Yes, the yellow (orange) MDT is out, but I thought Bruce was refering to the white, red and blue version which is in production. Jeff English wrote: > > From: "Jeff English" <englij@...> > > Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> wrote: > > > Has anybody seen the MDT reefers or Seaboard double door box car, or the > > NYC 10'6" box yet? > > I thought all of these have been out for quite some time now. I > know I bought two of the NYC 10'6" box cars at the Worcester > NASG convention nearly a year ago. Or are you asking about a > newer variation since then? -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3512	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: NASG Membership Time

Hi Folks, Membership in the NASG (National Association of S Gaugers) runs from June to June, soooo...now it's time to sign up, if you are not a member, or renew your membership if you are already a member. You can fill out the handy online membership form for both new members and renewals by going to: http://trainweb.com/nasg/ There you'll see a link to the form that you can print out and send in. Information on membership is also included. And, just as a reminder, the results of the recent NASG election are provided on the same website. Thanks, Craig O'Connell NASG Website Director

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3513	From: David Horn	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: replacement smoke wick and coils

Has anyone tried using them just the way they come from after-market providers? They usually look too loosely wound for my preference so I uncoil and re-wind them, but I'm curious what they'd work like right out of the bag. I prefer about 3/8" long, 35-50 ohms, pretty tightly wound (~1/16" in diameter) with windings close together (basically similar in appearance to original units). Right out of the bag, repros come ~1/2" long, 1/8" in diameter (much more loosely wound), about the right ohms, but with windings relatively far apart. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3514	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Sawmill Humor

On Wed, 9 Jun 1999 12:36:59 -0400 (EDT) Tom Jarcho (jarcho@...) wrote: <There are a few things that can cause the boards in <the American Flyer <Sawmill to not get kicked out fully. Observe the <action of the kicker <without lumber to get a feel for what is going on. <The kicker plate which <pushes out the boards is pushed itself by an arm that <comes out of the <mechanism. This arm can become slightly bent since <it is soft. Bend it in <slight increments outwards to make the plate go <farther out. If there is <excess lateral play in the kicker, the stud which <holds it in place maybe <loose. The spring may be damaged so that it holds <back or interferes with <the kick plate's travel. Sanding the lumber smooth <may also help <sometimes. I am preparing a Roundhouse on the <sawmill, wooden youknow? <Tom Jarcho Oh, Tom. you are such a cut up!!!! Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3515	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Sawmill Humor

In a message dated 6/10/99 8:53:24 AM, joestrainrepair@... writes: << Oh, Tom. you are such a cut up!!!! Joe >> This type of humor goes against the grain! RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3516	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Sawmill Humor]

Return-Path: mitkof@... Received: from 208.150.94.77 (max01-rg-76.rg.anc.net [208.150.94.77]) by mail.anc.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA00378; Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:38:23 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <375FC145.93D@...> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 1999 08:44:44 -0500 From: Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Sawmill Humor References: <19990610125245.2957.rocketmail@...> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Joe: I SAW that and I'm getting a little BOARD! Take care, Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3517	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re-Bushing Jig

Have had several inquiries on the diesel re-bushing jig kit. The kit includes a high quality, machinist's grade jig, three drill bits and one dozen bushings. More bushings are available. The kit now runs between $45 and $60 and can be purchased from: Hobby Horse Products P. O. Box 543 Kendallville, IN 46755 219-347-3958 A re-bush takes 1 1/2 to 2 hours. A friend and I have done several. I will be glad to write down the procedure and send it to those of you who buy a kit, as there are a couple of tricks we learned by trial and error, that will be helpful to you. Regards, Steve Pendleton bestofbreed@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3518	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Sawmill Humor

That's the plane truth! -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> To: Joseph Haenn <joestrainrepair@...> Date: Thursday, June 10, 1999 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Sawmill Humor >Joe: >I SAW that and I'm getting a little BOARD! >Take care, >Bruce > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3519	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Humor?

ok let's cut the jokes!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3520	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Sawmill Humor]

Ouch!! these jokes are going against my grain!! Youse guys are a bunch of cut-ups! David D. Joining Pun'anon someday.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3521	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: layouts outside

In message <3.0.6.32.19990608160054.0083c410@...>, Chris & Kathleen <wb8ypo@...> writes >From: Chris & Kathleen <wb8ypo@...> > >Hi all >Well let try this one again > >Has any one tried to do a S-scale layout, out side. and yes I have seen the >mag gardon layout and it is for G scale > >Chris >wb8ypo@... > Hi Chris I understand that Mick Flye an AF collector/operator has a line extending out into his garden - as Neil Trump is a good friend of Mick, and his on the list he may be able to help. There is also Ian Wheeler an HO modeller who through a change of house has just dismantled an outdoor HO line - if you want Ian's Email address please contact me off list. Best regards -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3522	From: noramz@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: smoke wick & coil

I replaced the wick and coil in my Hudson just a few days ago with the SMOKE ELEMENT AND WICK ASSEMBLY made by afp products. I read Barker's advice on winding the wire and left the coil loose on the wick. This makes sense to me. It seems to me that it would wick better that way than if it was wound real tight. Thinking along those lines, I drilled out the holes that the wick goes through to 7/64 inch. The original holes were 3/32 inch. Again, I figured it would wick a little better through the larger holes. (I think I remembered the sizes right, anyway, I used the next bigger drill bit from the size of the original holes.) I also rounded off the edges of the holes so there wouldn't be any sharp edges. This also makes it a bit easier to thread the wick back into the holes. I had no problem once I had the wick ends saturated with smoke fluid. I couldn't tell how long the original wick was because I had previously tried to repair it, but I did manage to stuff the entire new wick into the lower chamber. About the length of the wire, I like lots of smoke (who doesn't) so I shortened it and ended up with 29 ohms resistance. Recommendation, of course, is 35-50 ohms. I measured the coil in my 312AC Pacific and it also is 29 ohms. It got that way many, many years ago when I fiddled with it and didn't know what I was doing. It is one of my best smokers and has never burned out after all these years. My Hudson is now also a good smoker with the new wick and coiI. I must add that in these two engines the smoke unit is wired across the brushes. In some engines it is wired directly to track voltage through a fifth wire. In that case it gets more voltage and may or may not burn out at 29 ohms, I can't comment on that situation. Happy smoky RR'ing Norman Crescent City S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3523	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Slawmill Humor]

Can I use a Cole car with my Slawmill??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3524	From: Andy McBride	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Smokin'

Hey Gang, Long time lurker, first time poster. Recently I picked up an American Flyer 312 Pennsylvania K-5 (Thanks Paul). As most of you know this is one of the earlier ones with the smoke unit in the tender. My problem is this: as the locomotive goes through curves and switches the hose running between the tender and the locomotive doesn't allow the tender to turn completely with the locomotive. Instead it lifts up the tender just enough on one side to lose contact with the rail and cause the engine to stall. The smoke tube looks original but I wonder if it's become stiffer with age. Is there a way to make this more flexible or do I need to replace it? I've also heard from other operators that these earlier locomotives with the smoke unit in the tender can be troublesome runners. Is this true and why? One last question (I guess I've been saving them up) has anybody had troubles with the reverser coming unlocked on the Lionel/Flyer Geeps. I've got a pair of NKP's that keeping dropping into neutral when I had them locked in forward. Keeping the S-Faith, Andrew McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3525	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Slawmill Humor]

Sure, that wood work. -----Original Message----- From: Trains16@... <Trains16@...> To: S-trains@onelist.com <S-trains@onelist.com> Date: Thursday, June 10, 1999 1:40 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Slawmill Humor] >From: Trains16@... > >Can I use a Cole car with my Slawmill?? > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >How has ONElist changed your life? >Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3526	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Slawmill Humor]

Hmm Cole Car, Lettuce see about that! S' DD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3527	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Smokin'

Andy, You need a new tube. Rubber tubing with age does one of three things; 1) nutin' 2) Hard as a rock & brittle as glass 3)becomes mushy and the inside is no longer. Now, I use player piano tubing (Because, 1) I have a bunch of it laying about and 2) I can write it off on someone else's piano repair!! (OK, that isn't true, but it was fun to write). You do have to be careful routing it around the motor field, you don't want to squish it flat! I have never noticed a problem greater with SIT locos over SIB ones, although they do require a little more juice. BUT the neat thing is, you can park them in the station in neutral, and the lights in the passenger train stay on, and the locomotive keeps smoking! Of course, if your using good fluid and have a "hot" unit, that might get to be too much of a good thing! Locked E units tripping into neutral? Hmm, that's a new one for me. I have had the two position units vibrate themselves out of locked. are you sure you don't have a contact finger starting to flake? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3528	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: replacement smoke wick and coils

David H, I'm with you. I don't think you can actually fit them in the units as they come--at least the ones I have purchased! I do understand there are a variety of suppliers for these though, I might not have tried the "right" one. I would think the wicking action would vary some, but the optimum would be one where the fibers are close enough to each other to help the capillary action. I never thought about enlarging the holes in the chamber, there must be a reason they are that size, but it may not be relevant to reality (i.e.: some engineer decreed it, but the real world didn't). BTW I get great smoke with a new unit and 35 Ohms. I once measured a number of NOS late style units, and they averaged out to that, as I recall, 32 to 40 Ohms. I have one loco that really overdoes it!! I think running dry has caused more smoke unit failures than anything (Wick gets burnt to the point it doesn't wick). Is there a better material nowadays to use to make the wick?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3529	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: layouts outside

To All, About twenty-five years ago I had an 80' circuit of stainless Gargraves track outside here in the UK. I had it on a raised 12" wooden platform about 4" wide. From a running point of view I had very few problems, few leaves on the track and the odd cat that decided to snooze over it now and then. The track was down for about four years and this was when the deterioration was noticeable. On curved sections the wooden ties started to break up, the tension of the track against weak ties split them apart. I fully accept now that if I had applied creosote I may have prolonged the life but as a teenager you don't always think that far ahead. If I were to start again I would probably use the new stainless Gargraves with plastic ties. I wouldn't like to say what the life expectation would be but I would be happy to get ten years from it. Another point to remember is to provide additional power feeds, say every other section, sounds excessive but I found it helped, I do remember this being another problem. The pins tend to corrode faster. At the time Gargraves didn't make a turnout suitable for the outside which stopped me from expanding further, though I do know they make a stainless one now. As kelvin stated, Mick Flye has a circuit of Gargraves outside as well and I know that this has been down for about 4-5 years. I think Mick has creosoted it at least once and it seems to be OK at the moment, I'll have to call him later to find out more. Neil T. >>Has any one tried to do a S-scale layout, out side. and yes I have seen the >>mag gardon layout and it is for G scale >> >>> >Hi Chris > >I understand that Mick Flye an AF collector/operator has a line >extending out into his garden - as Neil Trump is a good friend of Mick, >and his on the list he may be able to help. There is also Ian Wheeler an >HO modeller who through a change of house has just dismantled an outdoor >HO line - if you want Ian's Email address please contact me off list. > >Best regards >-- >Kelvin White >Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3530	From: FKopetz@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Now...questions on a 293 Pacific...

Hello all, My uncat. 21160 Atlantic set came today...all works fine with it. When I ent to the hobby shop, the 312 I had set aside (to have converted from link to knuckle coupler) wasn't done (the train repairman wasn't in within the past few days.) So, I decided to get a New Haven 293 Pacific to supllement my set because it looked good, had smoke & choo-choo, had a metal boiler, and a knuckle coupler, and the price was right. Now, quick question. I know this beaut (with the white running board stripe) was catalogued between 1953 and 1956 by Gilbert. Which freight and/or passenger cars usually came in sets with this one? (If it was ever made with a passenger set with any knuckle-coupler variation of the famous New Haven prototype "American Flyer" coaches, I'd be really happy and it would be pretty well prototypical. Well, I will talk later.... Fred (who just noted that both of the protype railroads (NH and RDG) represented by my collection were part of Conrail and are now part of Norfolk Southern. Yeccch...mega-mergers {I liked Big Blue!])

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3531	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Now...questions on a 293 Pacific...

Ok FK, this is da scoop. 293 Steam loco came in the following sets. 1953 #K5328 951 NH Baggage - Green 952 HW Coach - Green 953 HW Combine - Green 954 HW Obs - Green 1953 #K5329 947 N.P. Reefer 925 Gulf Tank 933 B&O Box 924 CRP Hopper 929 MP Stock 930 AFL Caboose 1954 #5436T 951 NH Baggage - Green 952 HW Coach - Green 953 HW Combine - Green 954 HW Obs - Green 1954 #5437T 947 N.P. Reefer 925 Gulf Tank 933 B&O Box 924 CRP Hopper 929 MP Stock 930 AFL Caboose 1955 #5525TBW 927 Katy Box 916 D&H Gondola W/Canisters 912 Koppers Tank 930 AFL Caboose 1956 #5630TBW 984 NH Box 916 D&H Gondola W/Canisters 940 Wabash Hopper 904 AFL Caboose 1957 #20330 984 NH Box 916 D&H Gondola W/Canisters 940 Wabash Hopper 930 AFL Caboose Thats it. All of this data is readily available by using my Inventory and Research Application. For more information on what this Application does, please visit the following site by clicking -----> <A HREF="http://members.aol.com/trains16/page/index.htm">A.F. Database Application </A> or type http://members.aol.com/trains16/page/index.htm (using lower case letters...) into your browser if the above link does not work for you.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3532	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Now...questions on a 293 Pacific...

Hmm, Well if it's a part of NS now, don't worry about your steamers, Management won't let them run!! Yes, you can safely run some 950/955 coaches and a 951 baggage car behind it. I state that without looking in my Sets book, because I *know* that somewhere, someone sold such a set, even if it was uncataloged. Hmm, dug out a '54 cat, and it is there with a set of heavyweights. Hmm they're even listed as the Green ones! The 283 gets a 951r, 2-955r and a 954r in this book. Interestingly, the 303 gets a set of streamliners, combo, dome & obs in Chestnut stripe. Gee, this is why I don't get these out too often, I'm loosing work time! I note on page 23 a sidebar: The Envy of the Neighborhood! "Hudson" Freight or "Hudson" passenger - with either one you'll have the gang clamoring to see these beautiful American Flyer Scale model sets in action when the word gets around. Yes, with one of these trains you'll be the envy not only of the neighborhood but of the whole town. Gee, Dad, It's an American Flyer!! Swell!!! David D. PS, you live near a hobby shop where you can buy Flyer, "off the shelf"???? GEE!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3533	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Sawmill Humor]

I think they are going across the grain Larry David Dewey wrote: > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Ouch!! these jokes are going against my grain!! Youse guys are a bunch of > cut-ups! > David D. > Joining Pun'anon someday. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking to expand your world? > http://www.onelist.com > ONElist has over 165,000 e-mail communities from which to choose! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3534	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Humor?

Hand or power saw.Larry Cbtrainnut@... wrote: > From: Cbtrainnut@... > > ok let's cut the jokes! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Congratulations to "INDIE-GRRL," our latest ONElist of the Week. > http://www.onelist.com > Visit our homepage and share with us how ONElist is changing YOUR life! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3535	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Sawmill Humor]

All this humor makes me PINE for the good ol' days. Guess I'll just lumber along. Later B.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3536	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: PRS

Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> wrote: > The NYC car is/was # B-304. Yep, that's the one, and it turns out I have three of them (sorry, not for sale). Do you have these on order direct from John Verser? If so I think you should inquire as to why you haven't received them. Incidentally the PRS 10'6" kit is correct for NYC cars in two groups, Lot 734-B, NYC 159000 - 159999, blt '44, and Lot 735-B, NYC 161000 - 161999, blt '44=45 (both Lots built by Despatch Shops at East Rochester, NY. The B-304 kits are all decorated as Lot 734-B. It can also be correctly decorated for Lot 730-B, IHB 10600 - 10999, also blt'44 by DS. The earlier PRS NYC offering was the 10'0" car with round corners, and was correctly decorated for Lot 703-B, NYC 157000 - 158072, blt'42 by DS. This would have been issued as kit B-4XX, but I'm not sure about the exact number because I never bought one. The PRS 10'0" kit can also be correctly decorated for the following NYC System Lots: Lot 682-B, P&LE 30000 - 30499, blt'40, Pressed Steel Car, McKees Rocks, PA Lot 683-B, P&LE 30500 - 30999, blt '40, Pullman-Std, Butler, PA Lot 697-B, P&LE 35000 - 35899, blt'41, Pressed Stl, McK R Lot 729-B, IHB 10000 - 10599, blt'44, Despatch Shops Also, not to burst your bubble, but you should be aware that the PRS reefer is not a correct model of any MDT car, although it could be used as the basis for a kitbash project. The PRS kit is an excellent model of the Pacific Fruit Express R-40-23, but unfortunately that particular design was barely used by anyone else, although PFE's fleet of them was very large. --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling englij@... | R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D | Route of the Whippet ---------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3537	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [S-Trains] Slawmill Humor]

Trains16@... wrote: > > From: Trains16@... > > Can I use a Cole car with my Slawmill?? That depends. Are you shipping Cole Slaw. Roger >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3538	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: saw mill jokes

About the saw mill jokes; As soon as I saw the original post I SAW the jokes a comin. Will you guys cut it out. Wodden it be nice if you just talked about trains a lumbering down the pike to the mill to pick up grain. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3539	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: smoke

-> My problem is this: as the locomotive goes through curves and switches the > hose running between the tender and the locomotive doesn't allow the tender > to turn completely with the locomotive. Instead it lifts up the tender just > enough on one side to lose contact with the rail and cause the engine to > stall. > > The smoke tube looks original but I wonder if it's become stiffer with age. Some replacement tubes are to thick and are thus to stiff. An original tube has a much thinner wall and is flat black. A replacement tube is semi-gloss black. Roger >I also heard from other operators that these earlier locomotives with the > smoke unit in the tender can be troublesome runners. Is this true and why? A troublesome runner would be because of the stiff tube only. Ya gotta watch it. Talking about a stiff tube can get some people excited. ;o) Also it provides an opening for all kinds of jokes. David D. Watch it :o) Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3540	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Re: Smokin'

I had the same unlocking problem on my Fionel Flyer NP diesel. Now that I debugged the metal coupler height so they don't drag and short on switch frogs the reverser is so reliable I don't need to lock it out anymore, so I never fixed it. If you find out what the fix is pass it on. Andy McBride wrote: > > From: Andy McBride <amcbride@...> > > Hey Gang, > > Long time lurker, first time poster. > > Recently I picked up an American Flyer 312 Pennsylvania K-5 (Thanks Paul). > As most of you know this is one of the earlier ones with the smoke unit in > the tender. > > My problem is this: as the locomotive goes through curves and switches the > hose running between the tender and the locomotive doesn't allow the tender > to turn completely with the locomotive. Instead it lifts up the tender just > enough on one side to lose contact with the rail and cause the engine to > stall. > > The smoke tube looks original but I wonder if it's become stiffer with age. > Is there a way to make this more flexible or do I need to replace it? I've > also heard from other operators that these earlier locomotives with the > smoke unit in the tender can be troublesome runners. Is this true and why? > > One last question (I guess I've been saving them up) has anybody had > troubles with the reverser coming unlocked on the Lionel/Flyer Geeps. I've > got a pair of NKP's that keeping dropping into neutral when I had them > locked in forward. > > Keeping the S-Faith, > > Andrew McBride > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend? > http://www.onelist.com > Come join one of over 165,000 e-mail communities at ONElist! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3541	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/10/1999
Subject: Brainiac down again!

Sorry everyone, BRAINIAC, my computer has once again crashed! It is dying a slow death. Am looking forward to having a new one soon. Anyway, I have once again lost Paul Yorke's Website. Would someone mind sending it to me again? I promise to write it down on real paper so as not to be so annoying. Thanks, Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3542	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: keep em coming

Folks again a very big thankyou to all of you who have participated so far in the survey..some intersting "wants" ..its amazing how varied this hobby is. There will be attempts to distribute this survey further afield in coming months...but in the meantime if you know anyone off line print it out and get them to fill it in....if you have thought of something that you forgot to include ...send it along...no limits on input here!! Remember the more we can tell someone our wants the more likely someone might do something. I have already passed along an idea to one manufacturer as a result of this little survey...you never know what might happen!! thanks >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3543	From: William H Trefts	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: Sawmill Humor

Greetings, My, we are getting to be a knotty bunch with these jokes! ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3544	From: Dave Silva	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: disconnect

I need to be dropped from the e-mail list until September. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3545	From: David Horn	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: cutting styrene

What's the best way to cut styrene? It seems the best tool would be an X-acto knife that heats up to just the right temperature, but I don't know if such a tool exists. I would appreciate learning what you have found works well. I want to cut some panels out of the roof of a repro (not a classic original) Plasticville building. Thanks. PS I have X-acto and utility knives, and a Dremel (high-speed) with cutter blades (thin ceramic).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3546	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: cutting styrene

Hi David, Here is the first of many answers you'll get. There are really two answers. First, to just cut styrene - especially strips and sheets - I score the line with the back edge of an Xacto #11 blade and then snap it off. The back edge acts like a chisel and does not create a raised edge around the cut. You also get some really impressive spirals of plastic as the blade moves down the cut. I pass the blade through the cut a few times. Second, to cut blind holes of the type you describe, the process is a bit more complex. I mark the holes with a pencil line, drill holes inside the piece to be removed at all four corners. Then I use a jeweler's saw (it is a sort of coping saw with very small blades) to cut from hole to hole. Finally, I use my trusty files to machine the plastic out to the pencil lines. It is tedious work. Another way to look at it is that this work is so unlike my employment work that it is restful. Later, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: David Horn <David_Horn@...> To: 'S-Trains@onelist.com' <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 9:18 AM Subject: [S-Trains] cutting styrene >From: David Horn <David_Horn@...> > >What's the best way to cut styrene? It seems the best tool would be an >X-acto knife that heats up to just the right temperature, but I don't know >if such a tool exists. I would appreciate learning what you have found >works well. I want to cut some panels out of the roof of a repro (not a >classic original) Plasticville building. Thanks. > >PS I have X-acto and utility knives, and a Dremel (high-speed) with cutter >blades (thin ceramic). > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Give back to your community through "Grow to Give." >http://www.onelist.com >Deadline is June 19. See homepage for details. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3547	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Questions

1. Who needed the front single-door, spring, and mount plate assembly for a 654-R obsv. that was discussed several weeks back. 2. Are there any S meets slated for the Columbus, Ohio area between Labor Day and Thanksgiving. 3. We have previously (dis)cussed the A-M S-12 for having the type "B" road trucks. Has anyone found any notable dimensional descrepancies in the BODY of the unit; such as hood length; cab length (we all know how ACG stratched the cab on their Baldwin to contain the, uh, motor.), cab width, major details, etc. Does anyone else have an RS-1 from Locomotive Workshop or other source. 4. Did not AF catalog or at least offer a set of their Baldwin switcher in M&StL paint with 3 lightweight passenger cars?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3548	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: 792 Terminal

To All: With all this wit and humour flying around I wonder if anyone can SHED some light on above item. I have three of these terminals of which two have clear roofs and one is frosted. Were they made in two different styles and if so which is the more common one to find? The frosted one has a small piece missing and I'm not sure if I would be correct in changing it to the clear version. I have to say that I prefer the clear version as you can see the trains better. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3549	From: Andy McBride	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Controllers

Hey Gang, Thanks to everybody's help regarding my K-5 question. I now suspect from what I've learned that the tube between the tender and locomotive is NOT original as I had earlier thought. What color were the originals? I was also wondering if anybody could help me with a controller I recently picked up. It has two levers much like the common Flyer switch controllers but that's were the resemblance stops. Rather then black it's green and rather then having lights it has painted color dots. It also has black wires rather then the Flyer color coded wires. Is this from Flyer's O-gauge days? Does it work like the more common controllers? I'd like to use it for a semaphore. Keeping the S-gague faith (but knot making lumber jokes) Andy McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3550	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Problems here

Hi all, My truck was stolen last night, I probably will be a bit distracted for a while. Worse than the truck, I had the back seat to my '15 T in the camper shell, and the gauge glass for the the SP1215 Locomotive under the front seat. It will probably become scrap metal, and the T stuff dumpster fill. AAAUGH!! David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3551	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: cutting styrene

David Horn wrote: > What's the best way to cut styrene? You don't want to use heat. You'd get a gummy mess that hardens on cooling. For your particular need, score the styrene repeatedly with an X-Acto #11 blade. Or you can use a low-speed drill (hand drill or pin vise) to make a series of perforations near the edge of your prospective cut-out, break out the piece to be discarded, and finish the edges of the opening with a flat bastard-cut file. You could also use a variable-speed Dremel, set on low speed. You want to avoid higher-speed friction, which will melt the plastic. But, from your description, you don't have that option. If you'd be working with a simple cut (rather than removing a chunk from the middle of something), a single score with the X-Acto blade is enough. Then grab on both sides of the score and snap the two pieces apart by bending. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3552	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Comments from AmericanModels.com]

All -- I sent our concerns about shells and the S-12 to Ron Bashista. See correspondence below, and Ron's reply. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3553	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: capacitors

Hey electronics guys: I urgently need some help. Am working on my next Roundhouse. Have several circuits where A.F. switches are thrown at 18 v. a.c. by 2- and 4-pole radio shack relays. Noticed arcing in the relays -- gorgeous blue-green sparks. I put 100mfd 35v. capacitors across the relay contacts and the arcing stopped. However, they let about 1 v. leak thru when the contacts are open. I can live with this if I have to. My question is, is this a good value for the capacitor? Is there another value which would stop the arcing and yet not leak? A 4.5 mfd capacitor did not stop the arcing. Thanks, Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3554	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: converting Gilbert steamers to scale

Out of curiousity mostly, I'm wondering what's involved in converting an AF steamer such as the Northern to run on Code 100 tracks. I presume the motors, drivers and other wheels would have to be changed? cheers.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3555	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: paint masks

Are there commercial sources for paint masks for locos for stripes and designs etc? John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3556	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: capacitors

Tom, as we discussed together at length a few months ago, voltage can't "leak through." Only current can leak. You didn't say where the voltage (1 V) was being measured. How about trying a pair of back-to-back silicon diodes across the switch coils? That may work to stop the counter-EMF that's causing the arc-ing. Give it a try one one load (switch coil)and let me know. Good luck, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3557	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: Questions

As to #4.... The 21813 M&StL Baldwin was offered in one uncataloged set #20193 with 24867R Combine, 24869R Coach & 24868R Obs.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3558	From: louis glumac	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: #24312 ???????

Hi all,,,,,,,,, i picked up a empty af box no train inside,, says #24312- three dome tank car,,,,, this is not listed in the book,, anyone know if there is such a car ?? thanks,lou ---------- > From: Trains16@... > To: ironhors@...; S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Questions > Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 1:12 PM > > From: Trains16@... > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Give back to your community through "Grow to Give." > http://www.onelist.com > Deadline is June 19. See homepage for details. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3559	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: converting Gilbert steamers to scale

Alex Binkley wrote: > From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> > > Out of curiousity mostly, I'm wondering what's involved in converting > an AF steamer such as the Northern to run on Code 100 tracks. I presume > the motors, drivers and other wheels would have to be changed? > cheers. Just wheels, including drivers. (Rail height has no effecrt on motors.) You will need 79" or 80" boxpok drive wheels. But you will have some difficulty getting any. Nimco (Nixon Model Co.) used to make a conversion kit that included scale spoked drivers. But that was 40 years ago. More recently, S Scale Loco & Supply (SSL&S) sold brass drivers with steel tires, and mounted them on AF axles for a small fee. This firm has been dormant since Claud Wade sold it to Bill Hartzell about 10 years ago. A new owner just bought the line, He will be at next month's NASG Convention in St. Paul, and is epected to make some sort of announcement about resuming sales. Overland Models sells replacement boxpok drivers for their NYC Hudson. These come 3 pair per box, so you would need 2 boxes. But they are mounted on axles with square brass journal bearings. You would have to disassemble them, remove the journals, and re-quarter the drivers on new axles. Then there's the matter of axle size...etc., etc. It would be simpler to find someone who has an SSL&S four-axle brass chassis with 79" drivers. Then you would need to replace the AF chassis with the brass chassis, and buy a motor to fit. There is one more option, which was covered in an ancient S Gauge Herald. This involved turning the AF chassis upside down, applying power to the motor, and using a file to reshape the driver flanges. You would also have to slightly pull the drivers apart on each axle in order to conform to the NASG standards gage. The remaining wheels should not be a problem. You can get 36" scale wheels from S Helper Service and NorthWest Short Line. NorthWest Short Line can also sell you 42" wheel-axle sets if you wish to be faithful to the UP prototype. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3560	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: smoke tubing

Has any one tryed vaccum hose from auto supply for vac. advance. THEY ALSO HAVE IT IN THINNER WALL AND DIA. FOR OTHER UNDER THE HOOD APPS.Sorry about caps as I dont type well and cap locks on me now and again. Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3561	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: converting Gilbert steamers to scale

Charles E. Smith wrote: > Strictly speaking only the wheels need changing. snip Thanks Charles. What do folks use as replacement wheels which on a large steamer would be considerable. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3562	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: S scale stretch limo

Hey everyone, I sent Paul a picture of the limo and he posted it on his web page. I stripped off the guady paint and the limo is now plain gray. The truck in the background is a redecorated AHL truck for which I made custom decals. Ukrops is a very popular regional supermarket chain. Sorry 'bout the black and white picture. I'm still learning how to use the electronic camera and I must have hit a wrong button. The address is http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/limo.jpg Thanks Paul Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3563	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: SIT

<<The smoke tube looks original but I wonder if it's become stiffer with age. Is there a way to make this more flexible or do I need to replace it? I've also heard from other operators that these earlier locomotives with the smoke unit in the tender can be troublesome runners. Is this true and why? >> Replace it; only costs $1.00, and the extra length will save you a lot of aggravation! There should be no difference in operation, except that it doesn't run quite as fast at equal power settings. After all, you are operating two motors at once, instead of one. Doug We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 66-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 48 page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid. MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3564	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Re: #24312 ???????

In a message dated 6/11/99 5:35:22 PM, l.glumac@... writes: << #24312- three dome tank car,,,,, this is not listed in the book,, anyone know if there is such a car ?? thanks,lou >> The tank car that was intended for this box is the 926. This is due to the 3 to 5 digit number conversion in 1957. The 24313 is the three dome Gulf tanker which actually replaced the 926 in 1958. See Greenberg Vol. 1 5th ed., pg. 186. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3565	From: david s garber	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: 792 Terminal roof

I think the clear cover is a repro. The milky or translucense was the original. david.s.garber @ gte.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3566	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: Central Valley

Someone was looking for Central Valley. According to a 1995 Mainline Modeler; 1203 Pike Lane Oceano Cal. 93445 Use your browser to check for yellow or white pages listing there, to get a phone number? Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Photos At Play http://www.kodak.com/go/play ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3567	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 6/11/1999
Subject: 4000 Gallon Tank Car, Real Railroad mail lists

To S modelers at sFinescale, P64, S-Trains I don't intend to make a habit of triple - posting; but this one is TOO good! A member of my local S club is cleaning house and made a huge pile of old RMC and MR available to the club. The April ''89 RMC has an article about a 4000 Gallon tank car, 2 compartment. NATX 18902, leased to Pennzoil Built 2-60 June '94 MR has an article about a 4000 gallon 1 compartment car. SHPX 4297 designed for vegetable oil, leased to Onyx Oils and Resins Inc. Built 12-49 I blew up the plans for the single compartment car to S scale, brought them to my hobby shop, and there are several HO regular tank cars that are almost dead on the right diameter and length to be an S 4000 gallon tank car. Looks like a good use for my extra des Moines Hobbies tank car frame! I don't know if it is exactly the right frame, but it looks like a reasonable starting point. ALSO, when I went to One-list to find the sign up for Sfinescale, I noticed MANY lists for individual railroads. I of course signed up for the GN list. Great real railroading stories are appearing often, from the guys that lived it! Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Photos At Play http://www.kodak.com/go/play ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3568	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/12/1999
Subject: Mint Edition

I snagged a '57 Fury at Wal-Mart today. Nice model. It certainly looks usable for S scale. For you guys that have a hard time finding Mint Editions, Wal-Mart and Toys R Us were both well-stocked. Look also at the Stock Racers. Some of those will look very nice after removal of the pad-printed ink. Check to make sure that they have normal size tires. Some do, some don't. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Photos At Play http://www.kodak.com/go/play ________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3569	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/12/1999
Subject: Re: Industry Info was: Central Valley

Hi Ted, Model Retailer Magazine publishes an annual in December that has all of the addresses, contacts, phone numbers, and information about every hobby manufacturer (as of its publication date). Most hobby shops keep at least one of these annuals around the shop for reference. If you ask nicely (and buy a lot of stuff from them) they'll usually give you the outdated copy when next year's issue arrives around the middle of November. Which, for the most part, is still up to date. I still have a copy from when I worked at Kalmbach and I find it indispensable. Model Retailer also has a web site with the same information but you need to be a subscriber to access it. However, the magazine does maintain an online up-to-date list of manufacturers that's available to the public. That site's URL is: http://www.kalmbach.com/mod/modframe.html$/mod/industry/links/links.html For strictly model railroad links, go to: http://www.kalmbach.com/mod/modframe.html$/mod/industry/links/links.html -- Keith THompson in Seattle mhrreast@... wrote: > > From: mhrreast@... > > Someone was looking for Central Valley. > > According to a 1995 Mainline Modeler; > 1203 Pike Lane > Oceano Cal. 93445 > > Use your browser to check for yellow or white > pages listing there, to get a phone number? > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > Photos At Play > http://www.kodak.com/go/play > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ONElist: where real people with real interests get connected. > http://www.onelist.com > Join a new list today! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3570	From: Don Abrams	Date: 6/12/1999
Subject: Diesel Armature Bearings

Hi gang! Just rebushing a PA tonight and discovered that one of the 'football' shaped bearings on one end of the armature shaft was blown out. Then I remembered that a few years back I was ordering from Flyonel and ordered some from their parts sheets without really knowing if they'd work. Well tonight I finally had reason to unsolder the worm from the end of an armature shaft. The Flyonel part is very slightly different in appearance, but is the correct I.D. and O.D. and shape to do the job. The part number (fortunately I saved it) is 6-40-8153-122, and it looks as if I purchased 10 @ 50c ea. approx. 6 years ago. I don't know if this will help, but I have a new source for my bearing stock for rebushing. On a recent trip to Madison Hardware I purchased a box of axle bushings for Lionel 224/675/2025 locomotives. Part number is 264E-52. I wasn't sure if I could use these either, but $10 for a box of 100's (too many to count) seemed reasonable. It turns out that the O.D. is 5/16". Just right for the rebushing process I use. The hole in the bearing is much smaller than a #20, so if I drill my big hole reasonably close to the original axle's centerline these work just fine. These bushings are wider than the thickness of the PA motor cradle side frames, but not so much that they have to be cut down -- there's still room for the gear in the middle. Also they have a step-down shoulder (which I turn toward the center of the cradle assembly). This is a convenient spot to hit several times around the circumference with a tiny punch, so as to make the bearing hard to press in (and therefore not likely to spin when drilling out the I.D. to Flyer specs.) Of course I still put on some Loctite and let dry overnight before drilling. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3571	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: S brass, again

While visiting a fellow S-scaler last night I got to see a very cool piece of S brass: an Overland E8A imported some 15 years ago. Although he claimed the nose was tapered slightly, the model looked pretty spiffy to me, right down to the portholes and see-through radiator grilles. With the list a bit slow at the moment, I thought I'd ask: What S-scale brass rolling stock (locomotive, freight car, whatever) would you most like to see imported again? Paul Schneider, dreaming in San Francisco. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3572	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: Re: S brass, again

Dear Paul, I have always thaought that there is a market for another run of the PRR N5c and N5a cabooses (cabin cars in you must). Tom Marsh of Overland brought these in over a decade ago and they are very much in demand today. But, the brass market has evolved and I would hope that whoever brought these in would over them painted and lettered as an American Flyer comp. version. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3573	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: Baldwin Brush Hell

Hi! I have a pair of Baldwin Seaboard diesels (one is a dummy) and I'm trying to find a replacement set of brushes. I went to Levington and have had no luck as they only sell new brushes that are not connected to the little brush arms. When I try to solder them the arms the brushes just crack and crumble. I even asked Ron at Levington to try soldering them and he ran into the same problem. Hen mentioned that there is a trick to soldering them; you put solder in the hole that the brush goes into and then apply heat to the other end of the arm and the brush is supposed to then stick to the that arm. Neither Ron nor I have been able to get this to work. Does anyone know of a source of NEW replacement brushes that have already been soldered to the little arms? and/or Does anyone know of a procedure that will actually work for soldering the brushes to the little arms? Thanks much in advance! --jon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3574	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: Baldwin brush hell

Jon: Putting Baldwin brushes on their arms is not difficult at all. Try it, you'll like it! You need what is called a third hand tool. This consists of a small heavy base and two (or three) adjustable arms, each ending in an alligator clip. This tool is used to hold the brush in proper position on the arm while you solder it. Radio shack has a cheap one for under $10.00. This tool makes a nightmarish job like this relatively easy. You also need a small file and some solder and flux, which is a paste that helps molten solder flow into joints. Do not use acid flux. Finally, you need a heat sink, some kind of metal clip that can be used to draw off heat from the brush arm when you solder the WIRE to it, so the brush doesn't become unsoldered too. Hold the arm in a pair of pliers or something, heat up the end with your soldering gun, and tap it against s hard surface a few times so extra solder will fall off. Then file the arm down to clean new bare metal where the brush will go. Clear the little round hole in the brush arm as necessary so the tab on the back of the brush fits into it well. Put the brush in one clip of the third hand tool, and the arm in the other. Carefully adjust the tool so the brush is in perfect position. Take your time, get it right. Apply a little flux with a toothpick, heat the joint well, and apply solder. The idea is for some of the solder to flow into the joint between the brush and arm, and for more solder on the other side to cover the tab where it emerges from the other side of the arm. Let cool. Then put the brush arm in place in its holder, attach your heat sink (I use a pair of surgical forceps that lock) and solder the wire to the arm. Let cool, remove heat sink. The exact same procedure can be used for Alco PA and GP-7 and handcar brushes too (and the brushes in the 314AW whistle motor). The Baldwin brushes are longer than the PA,GP-7, and handcar brushes (which are the same). Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3575	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: Vacation Webpage

Our Vacation Trip report is ready for your enjoyment. http://www.gate.net/~yorke/alaska_index.html -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3576	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: track trips

Gentlemen: I need some help here. Have any of you had sucess using A.F. #697 and #670 track trips with track other than Flyer, such as Gargraves, AM, and SHS? Am especially interested in results with the #697 pressure type track trip. Need this info for an upcoming Roundhouse. Thanks, Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3577	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: Re: Baldwin Brush Hell

One thing that is crucial: the new brushes must have copper plating on them where they solder to the arms. Solder won't stick to carbon! If the brush holder isn't plastic (some of the early Alco ones are!) I solder the brushes on "in place" the brush spring keeps everything in proper position and tensioned. If the arm had a brush on it, it already has solder on it, so it's tinned. Before you do any positioning, heat the arm so the solder melts, and wipe it clean, a small brass or stainless brush is neat for this, but you can use a piece of cloth. Make sure the hole is clean too. If you're using a new arm, solder the end of it and wipe it off. About the solder. I prefer a rosin-core circuit board solder, very small in diameter (radio shack sells it) and a good, small, soldering unit. Now that the brass piece is tinned, put the thing together carefully. When all is just as it appear it should be, apply the heat until the solder flows. It should just flow nicely and look smooth like the factory done. I don't think this is very well written, but gave it a go anyway! You can solder the wire on the other end now, if you're careful, the brush soldering won't get disturbed. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3578	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 6/13/1999
Subject: PPSSW Weekend report

Weekend's start early for the PPSSW with our regular Thursday meeting. This week it was hosted by the Minnesota Heartland and we actuall started debugging the wiring so the trains can run again. Sunday afternoon, Walt had a bit of a work session and progress was made on the second deck of the layout. While we are all lamenting that the layouts will not be a complete as we would like, each will show some interesting facets of the hobby. One of the features you will notice on Walt's layout (after you get your eyes off the big impact scenes) is that the benchwork is solid. After all, it needs to be able to support a triple head SD-45 consist pulling about 150 ore cars does it not? Ken

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3579	From: Don Abrams	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Soldering Brushes

I always use my lowest wattage iron, a 25 Watt unit, to solder brushes. Any more heat will cause problems trying to keep the brush from unsoldering while soldering on the wire. I've soldered the brush on using the tool Tom describes, assembled the brush arm and holder to the motor and then soldered on the wire. I always 'tin' the wire and arm first. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3580	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: screwed

My method for this is to insert a bit of 5 minute epoxy into the holes. Insert the screws before the epoxy sets too hard. This will hold the screws. If you ever need to remove them again, which is unlikely, you will be able to get them out but no guarantee the holes won't be buggered even worse after that. In that case repeat the procedure. Be careful not to leave any epoxy on the outside where it shows. This is also a common problem with the cross head and front frame retaining screws on ancient steamers and the method works there too, except you have to be careful to get any oil out of the hole. If too much of the boss has crumbled to leave a proper hole try epoxying the screw to ehat's left. This repair seems to withstand normal handling. For a more elegant (and last resort) repair there is also the option of forming a new boss out of plastic, removing the old boss, and epoxying the new boss in its place. Removing the old boss and leaving a good surface to epoxy to is easier said than done. Best tool is probably a Dremel and/or file, depending on accessibility. After one of these repairs you obviously do not overtighten the screws when reassembling. "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Last night I picked up the Flyer 644 crane I bought > recently. To my dismay, I heard something tiny plunge > to the floor. It turned out to be two small screws > that apparently keep the crane body attached to the > frame. > > A friend tells me this is a common problem as the > plastic gets old and brittle. > > This may seem like a ridiculously simple question, but > how do I re-attach the screws? If they fell out that > easily they're probably stripped, right? So how can I > place them so they don't fall out again (so the body > stays attached to the frame)? > > Paul Schneider > San Francisco, CA > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > How many communities do you think join ONElist each week? > http://www.onelist.com > More than 5,000! Create yours now! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3581	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: 6th annual Treasure Valley trin show

Hi all! Just wanted to let those of you that are familiar with the Rocky Mt. Hi-Railers club in Boise Idaho know that we won two-first place awards at the Treasure Valley train show this past weekend. First we won the "Best of Show" award from the other modelers and vendors there. Secondly we won the "Peoples Choice" award again. This was our first display of our vastly enlarged "Lookout Junction" layout. We have won the peoples choice award every time we have entered the competition. Folks just love that American Flyer smoke and choo-choo and all the flashy operating accessories. T.V. crews loved it too as they gravitated to our layout as if drawn by a magnet. Guess S scale is just irresistible to the train loving public. Steve Blackburn....RMHR, NASG, TCA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3582	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: screwed

A one-time fix with epoxy is not a good idea on the #644 because that cab needs to be removeable in order to restring the crane. Through the pulley system on the roof flap, the cab actually bears some of the weight of the boom and whatever load the crane might pick up. A flimsy repair here will quickly come apart. Rebuilding the screw holes or posts is indicated. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3583	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: NASG - Poor Relation ?

Greetings all I received a couple of days ago the NMRA Convention update #2 of June 1st. It was of interest to note that no where in this document or that I can find in any of the other NMRA bumf is mention of the NASG Convention and reciprocal arrangements .....Is NASG the poor relation? -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3584	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: Baldwin brushes

In a message dated 6/14/99 6:21:20 AM, you wrote: <<Putting Baldwin brushes on their arms is not difficult at all. Try it, you'll like it! >> Tom is totally correct in his description of mounting brushes. However, Jon is citing a different problem, and Dave later hints at it. The current "crop" of repro brushes on the market do NOT have enough of a copper backing, making them near impossible to solder to the mounts. I checked my inventory after Jon contacted me, and found that to be true of all of them. That had not been a problem in the past. I tried some last night, and got two out of six to successfully adhere. But basically, this current batch of available brushes seem to be "REJECT" quality. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3585	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: Original AF parts

In a message dated 6/14/99 6:21:20 AM, you wrote: <<Putting Baldwin brushes on their arms is not difficult at all. Try it, you'll like it! >> Just as an informtional posting for the AF segment.........we just concluded the purchase of all the original AF parts from the former Fuchs Railroad Hobby Shop in Boston. That shop, along with all his mall locations, went out of business about 2 years ago, but he had been in business in downtown Boston for many decades. We have a LOT of AF parts.....some used, but most new. Unfortunately, not all were properly stored, and there is some rusting on some parts. We have a LOT of original steam linkage, if you are in need. And much, much more. My goal is to create a listing of available original parts this summer, but I don't know if it will happen! Best to just inquire. NO......no coal-loader clamshells (well, I lie....there was one, but I'm keeping it for use on a current restoration).......and no Talking Station reproducers. Also, remember that this purchase was totally PARTS....no complete equipment. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3586	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: NASG - Poor Relation ?

Soe of us wil tell you it always has been. I was around when Claud Wade tangled with theNMRA over several issues. kelvin white wrote: > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> > > Greetings all > > I received a couple of days ago the NMRA Convention update #2 of June > 1st. > > It was of interest to note that no where in this document or that I can > find in any of the other NMRA bumf is mention of the NASG Convention and > reciprocal arrangements .....Is NASG the poor relation? > -- > Kelvin White > Oxford England > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend? > http://www.onelist.com > Come join one of 170,000 e-mail communities at ONElist! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3587	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: screwed

Is it feasible to drill out the hole to take a piece of brass tube that has the mating threads of the screw on the ID, and smooth or maybe a little rough on the OD, and epoxy/superglue the brass to the plastic. Charles E. Smith wrote: > From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > > My method for this is to insert a bit of 5 minute epoxy into the holes. > Insert the screws before the epoxy sets too hard. This will hold the > screws. If you ever need to remove them again, which is unlikely, you > will be able to get them out but no guarantee the holes won't be > buggered even worse after that. In that case repeat the procedure. Be > careful not to leave any epoxy on the outside where it shows. > > This is also a common problem with the cross head and front frame > retaining screws on ancient steamers and the method works there too, > except you have to be careful to get any oil out of the hole. If too > much of the boss has crumbled to leave a proper hole try epoxying the > screw to ehat's left. This repair seems to withstand normal handling. > > For a more elegant (and last resort) repair there is also the option of > forming a new boss out of plastic, removing the old boss, and epoxying > the new boss in its place. Removing the old boss and leaving a good > surface to epoxy to is easier said than done. Best tool is probably a > Dremel and/or file, depending on accessibility. > > After one of these repairs you obviously do not overtighten the screws > when reassembling. > > "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > > > Last night I picked up the Flyer 644 crane I bought > > recently. To my dismay, I heard something tiny plunge > > to the floor. It turned out to be two small screws > > that apparently keep the crane body attached to the > > frame. > > > > A friend tells me this is a common problem as the > > plastic gets old and brittle. > > > > This may seem like a ridiculously simple question, but > > how do I re-attach the screws? If they fell out that > > easily they're probably stripped, right? So how can I > > place them so they don't fall out again (so the body > > stays attached to the frame)? > > > > Paul Schneider > > San Francisco, CA > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > How many communities do you think join ONElist each week? > > http://www.onelist.com > > More than 5,000! Create yours now! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > ONElist members are using Shared Files in great ways! > http://www.onelist.com > Are you? If not, see our homepage for details. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3588	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: S brass, again

The first batch of E-8s had a slightly mishhapen nose that nearly always happens when you try to bend flat sheet into a compound curve. I have one of these, now painted, and while it is more noticeable from some angles, I can handle it. Jim Kindraka advertised that the second run of the E-8s, teh ones with 2 motors, had a cure for this problem, but I have never seen one nor did I have the budsget for one the second time around. Paul D. Schneider wrote: > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > While visiting a fellow S-scaler last night I got to > see a very cool piece of S brass: an Overland E8A > imported some 15 years ago. > Although he claimed the nose was tapered slightly, the > model looked pretty spiffy to me, right down to the > portholes and see-through radiator grilles. > > With the list a bit slow at the moment, I thought I'd > ask: What S-scale brass rolling stock (locomotive, > freight car, whatever) would you most like to see > imported again? > > Paul Schneider, dreaming in San Francisco. > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > With more than 20 million e-mails exchanged daily... > http://www.onelist.com > ...ONElist is home to the liveliest discussions on the Internet! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3589	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Old Pullman Trackwork

Howdy Friends Got a letter the other day from Old Pullman..... prices will be increased with the next order I receive in a few weeks. Still have some #4, #5, #10, and both radii curved switches in stock at the old price. http://www.btsrr.com/btsopm01.htm Order soon! Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3590	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: flyer rescue

Hi guys, Everytime I read an article in S-gaugian about you scale guys chopping up flyer cars to convert them to scale my heart jumps. At the last TCA swap meet I picked up at least half a dozen hoppers that are missing steps and trucks and should be repainted. They are otherwise fine. Here's my offer, I'll send these shells to one of you if you'll send me back your flyer wheel sets and trucks. How about it? I also picked up about 30 broken caboose bodies. Heaven knows what kind of monstrosities I can build out of these. Two boxes of junk for $1.00. Another guy bought a junk box for $20 from Ron Leventon. It had a fair circus shell on the top. As we were digging through the box back at his car, we were suprised to find a semaphore Sam button. He wouldn't part with it. Dang! Lastly, check out the Thomas the Tank engine diecast section in your local toy store. They have a new Island of Sodor mail delivery van. It looks like a late 50s Metro. It looks great on the layout! Jacques

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3591	From: Richard Snook	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: CV info thanks

I was the the one!! yes me...I did it!! (Ask for Central Valleys contact) Thanks to those who replied and especiall to Art for phoning Jack (Parker, yes he with that "disgustingly, sickeneningly(wish I could model like that) " BEAUTIFUL Northern Pacific layout in aaaagh HO....real shame this bloke isn't into "S") I have sent him my ideas for some "S" product...I await his reply....If he isn't intersted I passo n the idea to Cliff Grandt..but as Jack already makes half the parts required I thought he would be the natural choice. He HAS no fax,email etc ..just a phone ..so had to resort to "your" help with earlt technology communications ..an envelope!! >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3592	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: [sfinescale] Old Pullman Trackwork

You better raise the prices on the old stuff to equal the new if you want to stay in business. Larry B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade wrote: > From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> > > Howdy Friends > > Got a letter the other day from Old Pullman..... prices will be > increased with the next order I receive in a few weeks. > > Still have some #4, #5, #10, and both radii curved switches in stock at > the old price. http://www.btsrr.com/btsopm01.htm > > Order soon! > > Take care, > Bill > -- > =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ > Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer > Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 > B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com > S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com > Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Make your voice heard! > http://www.onelist.com > Sign up for the ONElist Weekly Survey. Go to homepage for details.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3593	From: Michael Greene	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: NASG - Poor Relation ?

I guess I wouldn't read too much into this -- I also received the same update since I registered for the NMRA convention. But there is also no mention of the N scale convention which is also happening the same week in St. Paul. Michael At 06:37 PM 6/14/99 +0100, you wrote: >From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> > > >Greetings all > >I received a couple of days ago the NMRA Convention update #2 of June >1st. > >It was of interest to note that no where in this document or that I can >find in any of the other NMRA bumf is mention of the NASG Convention and >reciprocal arrangements .....Is NASG the poor relation? >-- >Kelvin White >Oxford England > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend? >http://www.onelist.com >Come join one of 170,000 e-mail communities at ONElist! >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3594	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: Re: screwed??

Paul, I would recommend removing the body shell and if the screw posts are still there, using super glue to put them 'right' Even if they aren't cracked, a drop in the hole will do amazing things. After giving it a bit to cure, you can put the screws back in by holding a soldering tip (hot) against the screw while applying light turning pressure with a screwdriver. As soon as it starts to go in smoothly, remove the heat, screw in lightly, then let it cool. You can then unscrew it and properly assemble the crane, but don't overstress the "new" threads! I described this proceedure in my "Fixin' Flyer" column in last month's Dispatch (Yep, an advertisement--is nothing sacred!) Let us know how it goes! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3595	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: New Location

Amazing things can happen! I no longer live a 1/4 mile from Conrail! Now I live a 1/4 mile from Chessie! Who'd a thunk it. And Oh BTW, from the pages of MR; "There is some talk that perhaps coal trains will travel along the (NP Cascade) line as far as Cle Elum (Wash.) and then over Snoqualamie Pass along the former Milwaukee Road. But the town of Lester (between Cle Elum and Auburn) will see no trains no more." Oh Yeah, that's per the May 1986 issue. Tell the GN (BNSF) about that! Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Photos At Play http://www.kodak.com/go/play ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3596	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/14/1999
Subject: oddball,uncatalogued flyer set

Hey,gang- I've been going thru my stuff trying to get some things in order,do a new inventory, etc(HAAAAAAAAAA!),and here's a set, all mint,never run,OB's et al. that no-one's heard of. The box has the red+white flyer setbox sticker on it,with no # in the set # area. The" From: The A.C. Gilbert etc" is part of the box printing.In one stamp on the top of the box,"From The Ritchie Premium Corporation-New York, New York To: The Sterling Furniture Co. Inc. 43-65 North Main Street South Norwalk, Conn Order Number 3177" Contents are 303 Atlantic,801 B&O hopper, 803 ATSF Cheif plug door boxcar, 805 PRR gondola, 806 AFL caboose-and to make this a real puzzler there's a 925 Gulf tanker and 25059 Rocket Launcher, button, and 2 3rd rails-1 for Pikemaster,1 for S track;747 Figure-8 Trestle set, 1 1/2 B transformer,12 pack of curve,12 pack of straight track, lock-on, and wire. Build date in the loco is oct 1955. Obviously,this set sat on the shelf for a few years-i can imagine the rocket launcher being thrown in to move it.The price of $29.95 is penciled in on the box, next to the Gilbert sticker. Ritchie and Sterling are long gone. I picked the set up in a Stratford,CT junk shop for $200(they originally wanted 500) after nearly a year of haggling in '95- and ran it around the Christmas tree as a celebration of my 40 years with American Flyer( my 293 Meteor set from 55 was running, too-on it's own trackage).So, anyone have some thoughts on this fully documented oddball set?-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3597	From: Track2 RailNet/DanceNet	Date: 6/15/1999
Subject: Anybody-seen-them?: PCC Streetcars, S Ga., by James Edwards

TO: S-Trains Digest FROM: James R. Ingram (JamesIngram@...) SUBJECT: James Edwards S Ga. PCC Streetcars QUESTION: Have any of you ever seen these streetcars described below ?? I have searched the S-Trains archive. I did not find any reference to this topic. (Please excuse me if I missed it.) At the 5/1/99 East Penn Traction Convention (HO & O scales predominately) in Philadelphia PA area, I saw 3 S gauge PCC trolley cars. ======================================= I-CONSTRUCTION: BODY-- These are NOT the 1:50 scale Corgi bodies that Pennsylvania Heritage Models makes the power units for. These bodies appear to be much closer to actual S scale, cast or molded from some kind of epoxy or resin or some kind of plastic. (I compared them with the Corgi's, which were at the same show in numbers, with O scale power trucks.) The bodies are not finely detailed like the Corgi bodies. The bodies appear to be hand-painted. The paint is not super-sharp like the mass production Corgi bodies. (One is painted for SEPTA, one for PTC (Philadelphia Transit Corp?), one for ? Montreal. DRIVE-- They have a DC motor in the center, that drives one 4-wheel truck via the usual shaft and coupling. Other 4-wheel truck is unpowered. They run reasonably smoothly (although they unfortunately have that too-common poor power pickup situation where two wheels on each truck are plastic, so only 4 out of the 8 wheels are picking up power). MANUFACTURER--The person who had these cars, told me that the maker, James Edwards, is now deceased. ======================================= II-BUSINESS CARD: The business card on the side of the three boxes reads as follows: James Edwards "S" Gauge Trains * Trolley Cars 3704 Bandon Drive Phila. PA 19154 CORNER: In the top right corner of this same business card are these 3 names: James Edwards Richard Edwards John Hrosovsky SEARCHING WHITE PAGES: An internet white pages search for the name "Edwards" in Philadelphia reveals no Edwards on Bandon Drive. (No "Hrosovsky's anywhere. Too many "Richard Edwards" to tell if any might be the one on the card. None of these 3 names appear in NASG or TCA member directory. ======================================= III-WALL HANGINGS: This same James Edwards apparently also made some 3 dimensional "paintings" that hang on the wall, where he used appearently the same S-scale PCC body mold, to make half a body that sits in sort of a picture frame. He also did one with what appears to be the Kawasaki LRV body in a picture frame. Some have just a car and overhead catenary. One has the car and overhead, plus a plastic building "flat" in addition to the streetcar. (The building flat appears like it may really be HO scale.) ======================================= IV-PHOTOS Assuming you have web browser access, you can view several photos of these cars at http://www.trainweb.org/sss/photos1.html Thanks. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><> James R. Ingram, 570-322-0988, JamesIngram@... <><> 1738 E. Third St, #357 <><> Williamsport PA 17701-3868 <><> http://www.trainweb.org/sss -- Susquehanna S Scalers (PA) <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3598	From: David Horn	Date: 6/15/1999
Subject: Rewinding Nichrome Wire

I was asked how I rewind smoke coils. I use the Third Hand tool Tom Jarcho mentioned previously. I have two pieces of cardboard about 1/2" by 2" with small notches cut in both sides about the mid point. I then crease these pieces at the notches. I lay one end of the wick (actually about 2" from the end) on a piece of the cardboard and fold it over it at the crease. Then I pull the wick to the side. That snugs the wick into a notch in the holder. Then I clamp the cardboard holder in on of the Third Hand's alligator clips. I repeat this for the other end, stretching the length of the wick across the Third Hand. With the hardware of the Third Hand snugged tightly this seems to hold the wick pretty well in place allowing me to wind with two hands and use the magnifying glass on the tool to inspect as I go.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3599	From: borj	Date: 6/15/1999
Subject: Broken plastic

Just for your information I've been reading some problems you folks have been having with broken plastic on the car and engine shells. If you have a hearing aid dispenser that actually makes the shells for the electronics they can repair the plastic for you. I did this for a living and have repaired all kinds of plastic including a 21085 that all of the screw lugs were stripped out. Its still together and working very well, So put your super glue away guys and find a friend that makes hearing aids. Bill Sandrus Boise ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3600	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/15/1999
Subject: Re: NASG

<<<Is NASG the poor relation?>>> PERISH THE THOUGHT !!!! Personally, I have yet to attend a joint NASG-NMRA convention that I enjoyed very much. NASG members and activities get LOST in the NMRA "extravaganza", even when NASG is housed in a separate hotel. Valley Forge was absolutely the WORST for this! We rarely saw anybody, as we were spread all around 5 or 6 different hotels! I hate to say it, but that's a part of the reason I'm not travelling to M-SP this summer. This is not meant to be a reflection on the host S committee....just my experience/attitude toward "joint" conventions. What's an NASG convention dealer-hall withut A.M., SHS, and BTS set up there! Been a long time since I missed an NASG convention! Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3601	From: borj	Date: 6/15/1999
Subject: color schemes of RR engines

Can any one tell me of a book that shows the color schemes of the different road names of America., both diesel and steam engines. Thanks Bill Sandrus Boise ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3602	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: color schemes of RR engines

Three books that I have are: Vintage Diesel Locomotives., Mike Shafer, Motorbooks International, 1998 Classic Locomotives The Series Vol. 1: Alco Switchers, Keith Szachacz, H & M Productions, 1993 (appears to be one of a series on manufacturers & models) Covered Wagon Mystique, Twilight Era for Streamlined Diesels, Humphrey, Humphrey, and Cross, Rainy Day Books, 1998. Roger Delthony borj wrote: > Can any one tell me of a book that shows the color schemes of > the different road names of America., both diesel and steam > engines. Thanks Bill Sandrus Boise ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3603	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: can motors

Advice needed on what make of can motor works best in a Flyer GP7. Where does one obtain such a motor? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3604	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: NASG

Doug, Sorry you won't be at the NASG convention in St. Paul, I'll miss seeing you. However, I feel your reasons for not going are a might misguided. You seem to compare St Paul to the joint NMRA/NASG convention in Valley Forge in 1993, whereas, this years NASG convention is seperate (not joint) from the NMRA. NASG is still haveing all its own activities in its own convention hotel just like the 1998 NASG convention. There are only two differences. 1. The NASG registrants have the added advantage of attending the NMRA convention and Train Show at no additional fee during the days of the NASG convention (Thu-Sun). Since there is nothing going on during the NASG conv. on Thur during the day, it is a good time to visit the NMRA conv. Also, on Sun. afternoon, the only thing the NASG has going on is the picnic, and there is pleanty of time to visit the NMRA Train Show and go to the picnic. 2. The only down side is that SHS, and multi scale mfgs. like BTS and Des Plaines Hobbies will only be at the NMRA Train Show. However, that is only a shuttle bus ride away, and there will be many more multi scale mfgs. that do have some S at the NMRA Train Show that would never be at the NASG conv. anyway. The last NASG conv. AM attended was in Detroit in his own backyard. There will still be the other S dealers/mfgs. at the NASG conv. like River Raisin, SouthWind Models, the new SSL&S, and Scenery Unlimited. I'm sorry you won't be joining them. This year's NASG conv. was designed to be "in conjunction with" (not joint) to try and get the best of both worlds. Although true joint NMRA/NASG conv. do have some of the down side you mention, the joint conv. is a great promotional item for NASG in exposing S to people other than its own members. NASG's main purpose in life is to promote S. Although many of us really look forward to the social aspect on the conv. once a year, the organization and many things in S (i.e. track gauge, AF Commemerative cars to name two) would die out if we only concetrated on the social aspect and didn't try to get new people into S. I also miss the "family reunion" flavor of the NASG conv. when we have a joint NMRA/NASG conv., but I also feel losing this only once every 5-10 years is far out weighed by the promotional aspect of a joint conv. Lee Johnson At 5:33 PM 6/15/99, PortLines@... wrote: >From: PortLines@... > ><<<Is NASG the poor relation?>>> > >PERISH THE THOUGHT !!!! >Personally, I have yet to attend a joint NASG-NMRA convention that I enjoyed >very much. NASG members and activities get LOST in the NMRA "extravaganza", >even when NASG is housed in a separate hotel. Valley Forge was absolutely >the WORST for this! We rarely saw anybody, as we were spread all around 5 or >6 different hotels! >I hate to say it, but that's a part of the reason I'm not travelling to M-SP >this summer. This is not meant to be a reflection on the host S >committee....just my experience/attitude toward "joint" conventions. What's >an NASG convention dealer-hall withut A.M., SHS, and BTS set up there! Been >a long time since I missed an NASG convention! >Doug > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? >http://www.onelist.com >Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3605	From: JIM SYPHAX	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: HODGSON SHELLS & PICTURES OF Es

Keith Sorry for the long delay; lost the address and had to get it from a friend. Tom Hodgson's address is as follows: Tom Hodgson 37695 Geanette Court Spring Grove, Illinois 60081 Good luck. Jim Syphax -----Original Message----- From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> To: JIM SYPHAX <jhsyphax@...> Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 9:55 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] HODSON SHELLS & PICTURES OF Es >Jim, > >What is Tom's address so I can write him and does he ever get to Seattle >on work? I ask this because we have several good layouts within 30 >minutes of the airport and I could be a tour guide for him on a layover. >-- Keith THompson > >> JIM SYPHAX wrote: >> >> Tom is hard to get in touch with. He is a full time corporate pilot >> and is gone alot. Keep trying he will eventually return your >> correspondence. He has produced shells for RF-16 Sharks, E7s, E8s, >> and a kit to convert the AF Hudson into a Dryfuss Hudson. The Dryfuss >> Hudson was available late 1998 and consisted of castings for the >> engine, tender and tender trucks. He has also produced shells for >> several modern EMD engines. Also power and dummy trucks for the E >> units. >> >> As for pictures of my Es and Sharks I will have to have some taken and >> will send them to you as soon as I can. > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3606	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Undec. RS-3 (AC hirail) for Sale

Hey 'S'ers, I have an American Models RS-3 (undec., AC hirail version;mint condition) that I am listing for sale for a friend. Asking price:$165.00 (plus shipping). If interested, please reply off-list. Thanks. Jay Mellon New Orleans, LA Email:jmellon@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3607	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: flyer rescue

Jacques Ollivier wrote: > Everytime I read an article in S-gaugian about you scale guys chopping > up flyer cars to convert them to scale my heart jumps. At the last TCA > swap meet I picked up at least half a dozen hoppers that are missing > steps and trucks and should be repainted. They are otherwise fine. > Here's my offer, I'll send these shells to one of you if you'll send me > back your flyer wheel sets and trucks. How about it? A long time ago Dan Olson trained me to come to him for junk bodies to cut up. I haven't mangled collectible Flyer for 30 years. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3608	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: SD60s

There was some discussion a while back of River Raisin's problems selling its SD50s and SD60s. Well I found out from them today that they have none left. Anyone know who has an undec SD60. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3609	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: NASG Convention

>Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:33:54 EDT > From: PortLines@... >Subject: Re: NASG > ><<<Is NASG the poor relation?>>> > >PERISH THE THOUGHT !!!! >Personally, I have yet to attend a joint NASG-NMRA convention that I >enjoyed very much. NASG members and activities get LOST in the NMRA >"extravaganza", even when NASG is housed in a separate hotel. On the OTHER hand, the Pittsburgh joint convention was one of the BEST that I have been to! It was great to see all the multi-scale products and clinics, and all the stuff in other scales usable in S scale. >I hate to say it, but that's a part of the reason I'm not travelling to M-SP >this summer. This is not meant to be a reflection on the host S >committee....just my experience/attitude toward "joint" conventions. >What's an NASG convention dealer-hall withut A.M., SHS, and BTS set up there! It is my understanding that this convention is arranged with S all in one place, to avoid the problems that Doug references. It will be just as if there were nobody else conventioning, unless you WANT to partake in the other convention. Sounds like either Doug or I are misunderstanding the plan. > Been a long time since I missed an NASG convention! >Doug > Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Photos At Play http://www.kodak.com/go/play ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3610	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Downs Model Railroad

Anyone have any info on Downs Model Railroad in NJ. I am looking for S Betterndorf Trucks by ACE S Scale 5'-6' Axle Width. Also Archbar Trucks 5'-0' Axle Width. Or any info on ACE S Scale. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy Canada

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3611	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: NMRA train show OPENS on FRIDAY

Dear lee, One correction, the NMRA train show is NOT OPEN on thursday. It is only open for set-up. Unlike the NASG convneitons, you have to be on the set-up list to get in and you need a special badge. The NMRA trade show has opened on Friday at noon to the NMRA attendees for as long as I can remember. But, in the past the NASG dealer hall has been open on Thursday, last year year it was even open on Wednesday. I know that Mike and I had hoped to attend the NASG convention this year by displaying our new products on Thursday. Lee Johnson wrote: > > From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) > 1. The NASG registrants have the added advantage of attending the NMRA > convention and Train Show at no additional fee during the days of the NASG > convention (Thu-Sun). Since there is nothing going on during the NASG > conv. on Thur during the day, it is a good time to visit the NMRA conv. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3612	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: Anybody-seen-them?: PCC Streetcars, S Ga., by James Edwards

Pope Imagineering sells S Scale PCC car bodies and powered cars. Address is: Pope Imagineering P.O.Box 30318 Chicago, IL 60630-0318 No web site. Dick Karnes Track2 RailNet/DanceNet wrote: > I have searched the S-Trains archive. I did not find any reference to > this topic. (Please excuse me if I missed it.)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3613	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: NASG

PortLines@... wrote: > Personally, I have yet to attend a joint NASG-NMRA convention that I enjoyed > very much. NASG members and activities get LOST in the NMRA "extravaganza", > even when NASG is housed in a separate hotel. Valley Forge was absolutely > the WORST for this! We rarely saw anybody, as we were spread all around 5 or > 6 different hotels! > I hate to say it, but that's a part of the reason I'm not travelling to M-SP > this summer. This is not meant to be a reflection on the host S > committee....just my experience/attitude toward "joint" conventions. What's > an NASG convention dealer-hall withut A.M., SHS, and BTS set up there! Been > a long time since I missed an NASG convention! > Doug Sorry you feel that way, Doug. The best NASG convention I have ever attended was the joint NMRA/NASG convention in 1990 in Pittsburgh. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3614	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: Anybody-seen-them?: PCC Streetcars, S Ga., by James Edwards

At 4:11 AM 6/15/99, Track2 RailNet/DanceNet wrote: >QUESTION: Have any of you ever seen these streetcars described below ?? > >I have searched the S-Trains archive. I did not find any reference to >this topic. (Please excuse me if I missed it.) > >At the 5/1/99 East Penn Traction Convention (HO & O scales >predominately) in Philadelphia PA area, I saw 3 S gauge PCC trolley >cars. > >BODY-- >These are NOT the 1:50 scale Corgi bodies that Pennsylvania Heritage >Models makes the power units for. These bodies appear to be much closer >to actual S scale, cast or molded from some kind of epoxy or resin or >some kind of plastic. (I compared them with the Corgi's, which were at >the same show in numbers, with O scale power trucks.) These sound like the bodies produced by Jeff Wilson of Hoquat Hobbies in Dunellen,NJ during the '80's. They came undecorated, so the paint jobs are probably home painting. Although Hoquat Hobbies sold the bodies only, Steam Depot offered drives that sould go under the PCC body. Other people could have just created their own drive. This body was paterened after the Chicago PCC cars. I'm not positive the PCC cars you mention are from Hoquat Hobbies, but it certainly sounds like it. Lee Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3615	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/16/1999
Subject: Re: NMRA train show OPENS on FRIDAY

Don, I knew that. I just stated it wrong. Next time I'll learn to proof read my messages. Yes, Friday at noon is the earliest entry for either NMRA or NASG registrants. My point was to show that there was something someone attending the NASG conv. could do on Sunday afternoon other than the picnic. Thanks for catching my incorrect statement about the Train Show on Thur. Lee At 11:25 PM 6/16/99, Robin Thompson wrote: >Dear lee, > One correction, the NMRA train show is NOT OPEN on thursday. It is >only open for set-up. Unlike the NASG convneitons, you have to be on >the set-up list to get in and you need a special badge. > The NMRA trade show has opened on Friday at noon to the NMRA attendees >for as long as I can remember. > But, in the past the NASG dealer hall has been open on Thursday, last >year year it was even open on Wednesday. I know that Mike and I had >hoped to attend the NASG convention this year by displaying our new >products on Thursday. > > >Lee Johnson wrote: >> >> From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) > >> 1. The NASG registrants have the added advantage of attending the NMRA >> convention and Train Show at no additional fee during the days of the NASG >> convention (Thu-Sun). Since there is nothing going on during the NASG >> conv. on Thur during the day, it is a good time to visit the NMRA conv. > > >-- >Don Thompson >S Helper Service Inc. >http://www.showcaseline.com >1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3616	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Re: Downs Model Railroad

> From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > > Anyone have any info on Downs Model Railroad in NJ. > I am looking for S Betterndorf Trucks by ACE S Scale 5'-6' Axle Width. > Also Archbar Trucks 5'-0' Axle Width. Or any info on ACE S Scale. > I recently called Russ Downs at 609-742-0790. He said that production of trucks has been held up because of lack of wheelsets -which he buys from another company. However, he has his supply re-established and expects to start shipping trucks in a couple of weeks. I was looking for the standard gauge archbar trucks but I assume the information would apply to all varieties. I put in an order with BTS to get them as soon as they come through. I like his trucks but they seem to have a lot of friction because of the cylindrical bearings - anybody have suggestions on reducing this friction? Art

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3617	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Re: Downs Model Railroad

At 9:51 AM 6/17/99, Arthur Armstrong wrote: >From: Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> > >I like his trucks but they seem to have a lot of friction because of the >cylindrical bearings - anybody have suggestions on reducing this >friction? > >Art > Art, Are you using the brass bushings for the axle to ride in, or are you using the delren bushings? The delrin bushings are far superior to the brass. Downs sells the delrin bushings, and a drill bit to enlarge the hole in the truck side frames to accept the delrin bushings. Lee >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >How has ONElist changed your life? >Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3618	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Re: NASG Convention

Ted Larson wrote in part: > On the OTHER hand, the Pittsburgh joint convention was one of the BEST > that I have > been to! It was great to see all the multi-scale products and clinics, > and all the stuff > in other scales usable in S scale. > And Dick Karnes wrote in part: >The best NASG convention I have ever attended was >the joint NMRA/NASG convention in 1990 in Pittsburgh. Indeed, it was at Pittsburgh where I saw the light and returned to S scale after growing up with American Flyer but spending the intervening twenty years in HO. I had attended the previous seven NMRA nationals, as an HOer, but the only previous exposure I had seen of the renaissance of S scale was Ron B's table at the trade show in Milwaukee in 1985. I had a brief discussion with him and wished him luck although I was, I thought, firmly committed to HO. Even at Pittsburgh, it was only in my last hour at the convention and I was making my last round of the trade show when I came upon all the S manufacturers lined up in one aisle. That cooperative effort, by the NASG and the participating mfrs, created the critical mass to literally open my eyes to what was going on in S scale. I picked up all the free literature I could and read it all on the train ride home. By the time I greeted my wife I had made the decision that I was now an S scaler, and the rest is history. --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling englij@... | R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D | Route of the Whippet ---------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3619	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Gilbert Reproductions

Joe�s Train Repair has just become a registered/licensed dealer for the new Gilbert Reproductions line of reproductions of popular and/or collector-priced American Flyer accessories. Now you can own reproductions of rare and desirable Gilbert AF accessories for reasonable prices, including Gabe the Lamplighter, the Track Gang accessory, and the Car Washer accessory.. Most of these items will be available by the end of the summer (some by the end of July), with others available by the fall. For the next 2 weeks only we will be taking advance orders for these items at 10% off the suggested retail price. Advance orders for this special pricing must inclde a 50 percent deposit and MUST BE RECEIVED BY JULY 1, 1999. Since there is a minimal markup on these items, this is a fantastic opportunity to own reproductions of some of American Flyer�s most desirable pieces at reasonable prices. Examples include: Item# Description Retail Your Cost GR-30 AF #590 Cedar Hill Junction Switch Tower (all plastic construction; lluminated) $44.95 $40.50 GR-34 AF #594 Track Gang Accessory (all metal construction with hand painted metal figures, superb animation, & instructions) $449.95 $405.00 GR-38 AF #765 Car Washer Accessory (all metal construction, handpainted figure, dual animation, w/accessory house) $399.95 $360.00 GR-41 AF #772A Checkerboard Water Tower (with bubbling tube; metal & plastic construction; illuminated) $99.95 $90.00 GR-42 AF #774A Floodlight Tower (with 4 floodlights in double tiers; metal & plastic construction; illuminated) $99.95 $90.00 GR-64 AF #275 Eureka Diner (illuminated with figure and grass plot; 12�x4�x4�; specify red or black roof; blue, red, or green windows) $89.95 $81.00 Other Flyerville buildings are available; all are illuminated. Inquire for pricing on: 161 Valley View Station Platform, 161 Bungalow, 162 Factory, 163 Flyerville Station, 164 Red Barn, 165 Grain Elevator, 166 Church, 167 Town Hall, 168 Hotel, 270 News & Frank Stand, 271 3-piece Whistle Stop, 272 Glendale Station, 273 Suburban Station, and 274 Harbor Junction Freight Station. As an extra bonus, we will be offering the reproduction Gabe the Lamplighter for only $350.00 until July 1st with a 50 percent deposit. GR-43 AF #780 Gabe the Lamplighter (4 floodlight tower with Gabe going up/ down ladder to turn lights on/off; metal and plastic) reg. price $399.95 special early buy price $350.00 You save $50.00 off of the preproduction price and up to $1,000 or more off of the price of an original in excellent or better condition. We accept Master Card and Visa, as well as money orders and personal checks with TCA number. Other checks must clear the bank before shipping/order confirmation. For a complete e-mail listing of all offerings by Gilbert Reproductions, send an e-mail with a request for the Gilbert Reproductions 4-page listing to joestrainrepair@.... Contact Joe's Train Repair for further information. === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3620	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Min Radius

Hello all, I am new to S. I am working on a small switching pike and was wondering what min radius would be acceptable for small engines and cars. I am guessing around 24 or 26 inches for the radius min. My layout is to be around the walls and point to point. Also does anyone ever use code 83 or 70 on standard gauge layouts for sidings ect..? Phil Randall ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3621	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: S Containers

Is there anyone who builds 20ft or 40ft S Scale Containers? Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy Canada -----Original Message----- From: Lee Johnson <leemax@...> To: Track2 RailNet/DanceNet <JamesIngram@...>; _S-Trains < > Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 10:00 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Anybody-seen-them?: PCC Streetcars, S Ga., by James Edwards >From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) > >At 4:11 AM 6/15/99, Track2 RailNet/DanceNet wrote: > >>QUESTION: Have any of you ever seen these streetcars described below ?? >> >>I have searched the S-Trains archive. I did not find any reference to >>this topic. (Please excuse me if I missed it.) >> >>At the 5/1/99 East Penn Traction Convention (HO & O scales >>predominately) in Philadelphia PA area, I saw 3 S gauge PCC trolley >>cars. >> > >>BODY-- >>These are NOT the 1:50 scale Corgi bodies that Pennsylvania Heritage >>Models makes the power units for. These bodies appear to be much closer >>to actual S scale, cast or molded from some kind of epoxy or resin or >>some kind of plastic. (I compared them with the Corgi's, which were at >>the same show in numbers, with O scale power trucks.) > >These sound like the bodies produced by Jeff Wilson of Hoquat Hobbies in >Dunellen,NJ during the '80's. They came undecorated, so the paint jobs are >probably home painting. Although Hoquat Hobbies sold the bodies only, >Steam Depot offered drives that sould go under the PCC body. Other people >could have just created their own drive. This body was paterened after the >Chicago PCC cars. > >I'm not positive the PCC cars you mention are from Hoquat Hobbies, but it >certainly sounds like it. > >Lee Johnson > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >How many communities do you think join ONElist each week? >http://www.onelist.com >More than 5,000! Create yours now! >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3622	From: M.McConnell	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Re: Downs Model Railroad

Downs Model Railroad Company 314 Lehigh Avenue Gloucester City, NJ 08030-1217 609-742-8656 (orders) 609-742-1864 (fax) 609-742-0790 Russ is pretty busy with his TankTrain project, and he doesn't get on-line very often, but you can try to leave him e-mail if you want. rustj@... Russ's latest catalog lists: Ace Bettendorf sprung code 110 and code 125 in 33" and 36" in steel Ace Roller bearing sprung code 110 and code 125 in 33" and 36" in steel Ace unsprung Bettendorf as above Ace unsprung Archbar as above Prices range from $5.80 to $6.50 >>>> <excerpt>Message: 9 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 22:38:33 -0700 From: "Andrew Baird" <<baracing@...> Subject: Downs Model Railroad Anyone have any info on Downs Model Railroad in NJ. I am looking for S Betterndorf Trucks by ACE S Scale 5'-6' Axle Width. Also Archbar Trucks 5'-0' Axle Width. Or any info on ACE S Scale. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy Canada </excerpt><<<<<<<<

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3623	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Re: S Containers

Dear Andrew, Try http://www.desplaineshobbies.com Ron Sebastian has 40', 45', 48' and 53' containers and about 20+ sets of appropriate decals. He also markets a Gunderson Husky Stack container car. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3624	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/17/1999
Subject: Re: S Containers

Do you mean 20 and 40 or 24 and 48? Check Des Plaines Hobbies. They make 24' bulktainers and 48' containers. Chuck Smith NASG, RASG, TCA, TTCS, Chemung Valley Lines -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Baird <baracing@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Cc: CNET@... <CNET@...>; Sn3@onelist.com <Sn3@onelist.com>; Slimrails@onelist.com <Slimrails@onelist.com>; Proto64@onelist.com <Proto64@onelist.com>; sfinescale@onelist.com <sfinescale@onelist.com> Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 11:36 PM Subject: [S-Trains] S Containers >From: "Andrew Baird" <baracing@...> > >Is there anyone who builds 20ft or 40ft S Scale Containers? >Thank You >Andrew Baird >Nfld Rlwy >Canada >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Johnson <leemax@...> >To: Track2 RailNet/DanceNet <JamesIngram@...>; _S-Trains < > >Date: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 10:00 PM >Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Anybody-seen-them?: PCC Streetcars, S Ga., by James >Edwards > > >>From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) >> >>At 4:11 AM 6/15/99, Track2 RailNet/DanceNet wrote: >> >>>QUESTION: Have any of you ever seen these streetcars described below ?? >>> >>>I have searched the S-Trains archive. I did not find any reference to >>>this topic. (Please excuse me if I missed it.) >>> >>>At the 5/1/99 East Penn Traction Convention (HO & O scales >>>predominately) in Philadelphia PA area, I saw 3 S gauge PCC trolley >>>cars. >>> >> >>>BODY-- >>>These are NOT the 1:50 scale Corgi bodies that Pennsylvania Heritage >>>Models makes the power units for. These bodies appear to be much closer >>>to actual S scale, cast or molded from some kind of epoxy or resin or >>>some kind of plastic. (I compared them with the Corgi's, which were at >>>the same show in numbers, with O scale power trucks.) >> >>These sound like the bodies produced by Jeff Wilson of Hoquat Hobbies in >>Dunellen,NJ during the '80's. They came undecorated, so the paint jobs are >>probably home painting. Although Hoquat Hobbies sold the bodies only, >>Steam Depot offered drives that sould go under the PCC body. Other people >>could have just created their own drive. This body was paterened after the >>Chicago PCC cars. >> >>I'm not positive the PCC cars you mention are from Hoquat Hobbies, but it >>certainly sounds like it. >> >>Lee Johnson >> >> >> >> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>How many communities do you think join ONElist each week? >>http://www.onelist.com >>More than 5,000! Create yours now! >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >>List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Got an opinion? >http://www.onelist.com >Make it count! Sign up for the ONElist Weekly Survey now. >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3625	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Rust removal on AF chassis

Who has the best remedy to remove rust from AF car chassis? Tried sometime like CLR but didn't do much in fact made it worse. Is using a Dreml grinder a way to fix? John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3626	From: David Horn	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Culvert loader

As much as I'd like to add a 23796 sawmill and/or 785 coal loader to my layout, prices are soooo high (roughly $400 and $600 respectively for VG/E complete originals). I was considering subsituting with a Lionel 345 culvert loader, maybe even the recently released version (list price=$199). Have any of you any experience with this accessory? Would AF track fit on its base? Are the culverts too wide for AF gondolas? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3627	From: David Horn	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: K-line long straight

Earlier I had forwarded an email from their customer service manager citing 30" sections available this fall, but upon calling I was told they will be 36" sections "like we've always had". I'm not sure they'll be manufactured any different than before (some indication of soft materials and sharp edges). I did buy six sections from a local hobby shop. I wouldn't use them for on-the-floor train layouts and play, but they're working out OK mounted to my layout board.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3628	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Culvert loader

Might be a grand idea, I know the sensor on it sticks out too far and fouls those L locos, maybe they meant the thing for S!!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3629	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Rust removal on AF chassis

I prefer Glass beading, then you have to either re-blacken it, or paint it. No easy fixes for metal cancer. You probably know someone who knows someone whose in-law or former in-laws have a blasting cabinet. Old car nuts like me usually have one (I do, but it's not set up anymore--rats!! Gotta get this place mucked out so I can do stuff again!). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3630	From: David Horn	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Culvert loader

Trains16 wrote: I've seen original Saw Mills complete but unboxed in need of cleaning for as little as $300 at York. Lionels 1980's repro is still available below $200. There is nothing wrong with an original with a repro man and roofs if you can get them at a bargain price. The coalers are a problem I will admit. ===================================================== At the last York, I saw two sawmills - - one with repro parts for $325 ("firm!" according to the seller), and another with repro parts and not certain it worked for $295. I'll keep looking for one without a box that needs cleaning. I don't mind that or the fact it doesn't have a tomb, I mean box. In fact at the last York I bought a fully functional and original, but dirty, 751A for $85, and a 771K G+ with car E for $45. Coal loader wise, I'm greenn - - $300, wow. I saw one, complete and original, for $585. Forget 'em on eBay, gone to the sharks. Even those with repro parts go for too much. I agree with you on the repro parts, a few like the man, roof, etc, wouldn't dissuade me from buy a mill if it otherwise looks and works OK. Any opinions on the 1980's repro saw mill (with can motor)? If solid, I wouldn't mind that gracing my layout, especially if it puts me $100 closer to a 785 that buying an earlier one. On the other hand, I bought a 779 while I knew of two 2300's for less because their "cheapness" turned me off. Sounds like users on AOL chat have a totally different opinion of the new Culvert Loader than the CTT write-up - - good to get both sides of the story - - thanks. While I enjoy my Lionel 182 crane* and 362 barrel loader*, I think I'll hold on to my money 'til I can buy Flyer. I agree with you, you can't go wrong with their large accessories. * I paid $265 for my 182 and then saw one at York for $195, almost bought it on the principle of a good deal! Paid $110 for my 362 and that's about right. As always - - it's worth what you paid for it. First pick and learn about what you're going to enjoy most.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3631	From: Dennis Back	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Repro Barrel Loader question

My repro Barrel Loader that I bought new in 1985 runs WAY TOO FAST when I operate it on the normal base and 15 volts. I have to put it on an accessory transformer on the variable post to slow it down. Is this normal for the repro Barrel Loader? BTW...my repro Saw Mill works fine on 15 volts. Dennis Miami _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3632	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Repro Barrel Loader question

In a message dated 6/18/99 2:29:05 PM, backden@... writes: << I have to put it on an accessory transformer on the variable post to slow it down. Is this normal for the repro Barrel Loader? >> Yes. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3633	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Culvert loader

In a message dated 6/18/99 2:14:54 PM, David_Horn@... writes: << Any opinions on the 1980's repro saw mill (with can motor)? If solid, I wouldn't mind that gracing my layout, especially if it puts me $100 closer to a 785 that buying an earlier one. >> My sample of the repro Sawmill works fine. Other than driven with a can motor, it is very similar to the original. Appearance-wise, it is reasonably close to the original with the principal exception of the color of the undercarriage for the 'log' (black vs. yellow). My only suggestion is that you run it off of a small, cheap transformer so that you can adjust the speed. About 9V does it. The use of a small transformer also makes a good accessory out of the repro Oil Drum Loader, too. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3634	From: David Horn	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Culvert loader

Thanks for the super quick and informative reply. Will keep my eye and ears open for an original or repro sawmill. Definitely appreciate your advice on tuning the voltage to the accessory and have found that to be helpful with 182 (14volts) 362 (11volts) and others. My track transformers are 15B and 16B. Accessories are on (2) 1-1/2B's and a 12B. I try to have "voltage-optimized" accessories share varied voltage posts, and drive the others off fixed voltage (e.g. whistle, horn, 772, 759, things that work best on full-power). Now starting to run out of variable posts! But this is good problem - - no complaints.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3635	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Repro Barrel Loader question

I could not resist.... Yes, Lionel like to make things that run unrealistically fast and noisey...(S)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3636	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: CDS Dry Transfers

I have 16 sets of S gauge CDS dry transfers - some CNJ, CP, CN, and more. Anyone interested, send for a complete list. Gregg Mummert gmummert@... S Gauge - the only way to Fly(er)! _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3637	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Repro Barrel Loader question

My Lionel/Flyer barrel loader runs well at about 7-9 volts. Roger Delthony Dennis Back wrote: > From: Dennis Back <backden@...> > > My repro Barrel Loader that I bought new in 1985 runs > WAY TOO FAST when I operate it on the normal base and > 15 volts. I have to put it on an accessory > transformer on the variable post to slow it down. Is > this normal for the repro Barrel Loader? > > BTW...my repro Saw Mill works fine on 15 volts. > > Dennis > Miami > > > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Where do some of the Internet's largest email lists reside? > http://www.onelist.com > At ONElist - the most scalable and reliable service on the Internet. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3638	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Rail Weight

Somebody asked about the relationship between prototype rail weight, and model RR rail. >From the BK Enterprises (switches) catalog comes the following information for S scale. Code 55 40 lb. narrow gauge yard and siding 70 65 lb. narrow gauge mainline, std gauge yard and siding 83 85 lb. std gauge yard and siding 100 110 lb. branch line or modern yard and siding 125 155 lb. modern mainline Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Photos At Play http://www.kodak.com/go/play ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3639	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/18/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight

Neat list, good to see a "side by side" comparison. Now from my experience with 12"-1' stuff, albeit a bit limited, 65 lb may be Std yard and siding, but ages ago! 75lb was substituted some time back, although 65 can still be found on little-used areas, or remote ones. 85lb is probably the minimum you will see today on any active track. (Even on the old WP highline sidings!--I wuz just there!). I think the Cumbres & Toltec is on 75, but I could be wrong. This will make an interesting thread. BTW the new rail BNSF had sitting near the siding on the old Highline was 165Lb, Shinora--or some similar name. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3640	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: RI Decals and paint possibilities

Greetings all, Who produces decals for the Rock Island "Rock" blue, white amd black era scheme (1976-1980?)in S? and can anyone tell me why the only cars produced in S for the blue Rock are always Hoppers?:) Thanks Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3641	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: late 1980s/early 1990s American Models Geeps

Here's one of many reasons I like S-Trains: I can usually expect an intelligent answer to niggling questions like this one: Do American Models Geeps manfactured between, say, 1988 and 1992 come in kit form? I have a chance to buy a GP9/18 which the seller tells me (on the phone) requires some assembly (more than just pitting in cab windows, he says). I get the impression the plastic shell has to be attached to the frame, for example. Does this ring a bell? Thanks. Paul Schneider, rapidly out-growing his newbie S-tatus, but still learning! _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3642	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Loader Pictures Wanted

If you have a loader, repo or otherwise, and a camera that focus close enough to take a good picture, please send me a .jpg or print. 7501 Springhaven Ave Indiantown Fl 34956 See you Sunday night at "the chat". Paul Yorke American Flyer operator/Stereo Photographer S-Trains Mailing / http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains (Primary Email Yorke@... - Backup paulyork@...) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3643	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: gngoat@onelist.com: [gngoat] Digest Number 89

--------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: gngoat@onelist.com To: gngoat@onelist.com Subject: [gngoat] Digest Number 89 Date: 19 Jun 1999 07:12:33 -0000 Message: 1 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 13:05:14 -0700 From: Guy Baxter <guybaxter@...> Subject: Adlake Kerosene Lantern Dear Goats, Anyone interested in a Genuine " Adlake Kerosene Lantern " Brass Plated, Clear Globe, the real McCoy. For $ 65.00 US Dollars, dilivered to your door???? Now that I have your attention, my Union, The United Transportation Union is selling these, I believe they are the same ones awarded to the best Model contests. knowen as the UTU-Brass Lantern Award. I've seen these lanterns on E-Bay selling well into the hundred dollars. This is on the up and up, I just got mine, and a baseball hat. Check it out! Either thru your search engine at , United Transportation Union or at the UTU's Supply Department is: http://www.utu.org/DEPTS/SUPPLY/supply1.htm and for the page with the lantern: http://www.utu.org/DEPTS/SUPPLY/sup-nov1.htm ________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3644	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Looking for Pantagraphs

Hi! I have a #499 GE NH electric and the pantographs are in really bad shape. A couple of the X beam straps are rusted real bad and broken. Does anyone know where I can find replacements or know of someone who does repairs on this kind of thing? Thanks! --jon ------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Marinello PulsePoint Communications (805) 566-2000 Email jon.marinello@... Web: http://www.plpt.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3645	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Re: Looking for Pantagraphs

Dear Jon, I was told that Ron Leventon had these made. May Doug Peck has these in stock. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3646	From: Gerbasi	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Re: repo barrel loader

The instruction sheet that came with my repro barrel loader suggested it be run off variable rail voltage adjusted to run it at a reasonable speed or at 8 volts. Tom Gerbasi > Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:28:45 -0700 (PDT) > From: Dennis Back <backden@...> >Subject: Repro Barrel Loader question > >My repro Barrel Loader that I bought new in 1985 runs >WAY TOO FAST when I operate it on the normal base and >15 volts. I have to put it on an accessory >transformer on the variable post to slow it down. Is >this normal for the repro Barrel Loader? > >BTW...my repro Saw Mill works fine on 15 volts. > >Dennis >Miami

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3647	From: alice beachy	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: New vehicle

Hi All, I stopped by my Toys-R-Us today. Still no new Mint Edition but I did find a couple of interesting things. Three civilian Humvees in the Johnny lightning series. One was a fire department light rescue unit. You don't even need roads on your layout for this one. The packaging indicates this is just the beginning of a series. I hope they do a brush fire unit. We have several owned by the Virginia Div. of Forestry and they look great. I also found a second stretch limo. I don't need it but bought it anyway. If anyone is interested and can not find one, you can have it for $4.00 plus $3.50 for shipping. Just give me an e-mail. If you want to see the one I stripped take a look at Pauls pictures. Don't remember the address. I had it bookmarked but Alice just changed computers at home and I lost all my bookmarks. If this one is sold and others want them, let me know and I will keep my eyes out for more. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3648	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: UK Magazines

Somebody asked about availability of old US model railroad magazines, for shipment to UK, because they are not available over there. The magazines are available, frequently at $0.50 per issue, but it will cost double that to ship them, surface mail. The cheapest rate is $1 per pound, surface, 66 lb. package per my local postal clerk. 12 issues of MR, RMC weighs 10 lbs. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3649	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight

On Sat, 19 Jun 1999 07:32:35 -0700 "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> writes: >Hi Ted, > Well, I thought the list was most interesting & useful! Now, I >know I've seen it posted before, but where does AF track "fit in"? I thought it >was something like 185Lb or so. Hmm, Didn't the B & O or Pennsy use >something like that on their mains back in the 40s?? A good way to see where AF track fits in is to set a 1/64th person or vehicle (such as a Mint Edtions car) next to AF track. I'm sure you'll conclude that it is FAR oversize relative to prototype. But what the hay, it was designed as a toy for kids hands. I s'pose if it were to "fit in", it could be monorail track for Disneyland. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3650	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Re: late 1980s/early 1990s American Models Geeps

Yes You have to put the fans and ect to make a GP9 or18 Larry Paul D. Schneider wrote: > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Here's one of many reasons I like S-Trains: I can > usually expect an intelligent answer to niggling > questions like this one: Do American Models Geeps > manfactured between, say, 1988 and 1992 come in kit > form? I have a chance to buy a GP9/18 which the seller > tells me (on the phone) requires some assembly (more > than just pitting in cab windows, he says). I get the > impression the plastic shell has to be attached to the > frame, for example. Does this ring a bell? Thanks. > > Paul Schneider, rapidly out-growing his newbie > S-tatus, but still learning! > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Who is the most visited e-mail list community Web Service? > http://www.onelist.com > ONElist.com - where more than 20 million e-mails are exchanged each day! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3651	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Flyer Number list, and photos

Wayne's limo photo is at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/limo.jpg For you Flyer fans I just completed the first phase of a very big project. A list of Flyer numbers, and some photos to go with them. See ... http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/numbers/af_nums1.html Always looking for good pictures. Paul Yorke American Flyer operator/Stereo Photographer S-Trains Mailing / http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains (Primary Email Yorke@... - Backup paulyork@...) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3652	From: Phil and Cathie	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: removal from list

Please remove me from this list as I am receiving more mail than I can possibly answer. thanks!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3653	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Looking for "Red Stripe" paint

Hello Everyone, I'm looking for some "red stripe" paint like Gilbert used on the Red Stripe Washington/Columbus/Hamilton/etc. cars. I checked with Leventon and they don't seem to have any. Anyone know where I can find some? Thanks much in advance, --jon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3654	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: PulMor

Can non-PulMor tires be converted to PulMor or does one have to install a dedicated PulMor tire? John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3655	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/19/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight

In the prototype vein; anything heavier than 136 lb is news to me, with 115 lb being typical mainline and 80-100 for sidings. On the modeling side--my last layout was code 100 rail, so will the next one if I ever get that far, and sidings may be code 83 if I can get it decently-priced. Why not anything smaller than code 83; just ask my eyes and fingers. David Dewey wrote: > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Neat list, good to see a "side by side" comparison. Now from my experience > with 12"-1' stuff, albeit a bit limited, 65 lb may be Std yard and siding, > but ages ago! 75lb was substituted some time back, although 65 can still be > found on little-used areas, or remote ones. 85lb is probably the minimum you > will see today on any active track. (Even on the old WP highline sidings!--I > wuz just there!). I think the Cumbres & Toltec is on 75, but I could be > wrong. > This will make an interesting thread. BTW the new rail BNSF had sitting > near the siding on the old Highline was 165Lb, Shinora--or some similar > name. > S' > David D. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Campaign 2000 is here! > http://www.onelist.com > Discuss your thoughts; get informed at ONElist. See our homepage. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3656	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Rock Island hopper blues

Jeff Tangeman wrote: Can anyone tell me why the only cars produced in S for the blue Rock are always Hoppers?:) To which Paul Schneider replied: As someone who spent a lot of time on the Rock Island in the Midwest in the 1970s, I too have noticed the dearth of blue Rock Island equipment (the last paint scheme used by the Rock Island Railroad before its demise in April, 1980). During the shoot for our next TRAINS ON LOCATION video (between Buffalo and Cleveland along Lake Erie) I happened across a bunch of former Rock Island blue hoppers. Regional railroad Bessemer & Lake Erie owns a fleet of them, still painted blue but lettered for B&LE. We saw them northbound into the Pittsburgh & Conneaut Dock ore yard in Conneaut, Ohio one day, then saw another string being handed off to the Norfolk Southern at the NS/B&LE interchange at Wallace Junction near Girard, PA. According to a friend who was with me at the time, the hoppers were a late purchase by the Rock, which hauled them in dedicated unit coal train service behind red-and-yellow F units. I don't know if he got his facts straight or not but DAMN! What a sight THAT would be (on the prototype AND a model railroad! _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3657	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Flyer prototypes

Flyer 952 was named Pike's Peak, 954 was Grand Canyon. Do these names indicate that the prototype cars ran on the Denver & Rio Grande Western? The D&RGW did have an observation car named Glenwood Canyon. There was also a Pike's Peak. This was not, however, a Pullman sleeper but a diner built by American Car & Foundry. An info on this subject gratefully received. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3658	From: Dave Heine	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight

The Pennsylvania Railroad had some 155 lb. rail. As far as I know 136 lb. is the common mainline rail size today. That would probably work out to about Code 110. (The Proto: 64 guys should know the exact answer.) Anyway, I model in narrow gauge, so most of my track is Code 70, with some Code 55. I do use Code 110 for the standard gauge (scenery) and dual S/Sn3. The Code 70 seems right to me, but Code 100 seems big and stiff and Code 55 seems floppy. It's what you are used to. Dave Heine > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > > In the prototype vein; anything heavier than 136 lb is news to me, with 115 lb > being typical mainline and 80-100 for sidings. On the modeling side--my last > layout was code 100 rail, so will the next one if I ever get that far, and > sidings may be code 83 if I can get it decently-priced. Why not anything > smaller than code 83; just ask my eyes and fingers. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3659	From: JASSMA@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 278

I'm changing my screen name to Jassma48@.... I would like to stay on the list, so please delete my old name and use my new screen name. thanks John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3660	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Red stripe, & pantographs.

In a message dated 6/20/99 5:32:25 AM, you wrote: <<I'm looking for some "red stripe" paint like Gilbert used on the Red Stripe Washington/Columbus/Hamilton/etc. cars. I checked with Leventon and they don't seem to have any. Anyone know where I can find some? >> Floquil SantaFe Red...........available at most any hobby shop. If you can't locate it locally, we stock it. BTW--- I'm not aware of anyone making pantographs. Lionel used to, of course, for their EP5s, but no longer available from them. Get asked for them quite often, but can't supply right now. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3661	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor

In a message dated 6/20/99 5:32:25 AM, you wrote: <<Can non-PulMor tires be converted to PulMor or does one have to install a dedicated PulMor tire? >> Nn-PM wheels do not have enough flange left if you add a PM band to them; they'll jump the track. You need to (a) replace the entire wheel with a PM wheel (we stock them), AND (b) add a sliding pickup shoe to the sideframe assembly (if it doesn't already have one) because without it you'll only have electrical contact from a single wheel, leading to all kinds of e-unit reversal problems. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3662	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Changing screen name

John, (Jassman), So what movies will we see you in?? (Hey, you asked for that one!!<G>) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3663	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes

Hmm, I hadn't thought about this before, but usually AF prototypes are definately eastern oriented (well, almost everything is eastern to a Californian!), but these are western names! I would suspect that they were considered "romantic, far-away places" that would conjure up in the young railroader's mind images of his trains taking him to such destinations. Remember that AF marketing was (quite wisely) aimed at the MOTHER, subtily, as it was (I've read somewhere) the marketing department's discovery that often she made the deciding decision of which type of train to buy. "Oh, Henry, those cars look so stubby and funny, but these are sleak and stylish!" Anyway, Mom would know what the Grand Canyon is, and probably Pike's Peak, they were in all her magazines in ads to take a "Family Vacation". Off for two days to work Railfair! Yes, lots of steam and even a Talgo train, but our booth gets all the afternoon sun & it's supposed to hit 100, so it's not all roses!! S' David D. PS. the CA RR museum's new toytrain display has only one S item, a boxcar showing relative sizes of the various scales--NO S in the other display cases!! Write-in campaign to start!!!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3664	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight

Dear Dave, Where do you find code 110 rail? -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3665	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor

In a message dated 6/20/99 3:44:46 PM !!!First Boot!!!, PortLines@... writes: << (b) add a sliding pickup shoe to the sideframe assembly (if it doesn't already have one) because without it you'll only have electrical contact from a single wheel, leading to all kinds of e-unit reversal problems. >> ????? All the drivers are insulated..... Doug... what are you up to??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3666	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: late 1980s/early 1990s American Models Geeps

Hi Paul, The AM Geeps "kit" is a RTR model with details the modeler adds like handrails, horns, truck swing hangers, and such. However, you also get to insert the radiator grills and fans to make the model a late GP9 or early GP18. Out of the box the model runs and the shell keeps your fingers out of the mechanism but you'll need to add the details to make a complete model. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Here's one of many reasons I like S-Trains: I can > usually expect an intelligent answer to niggling > questions like this one: Do American Models Geeps > manfactured between, say, 1988 and 1992 come in kit > form? I have a chance to buy a GP9/18 which the seller > tells me (on the phone) requires some assembly (more > than just pitting in cab windows, he says). I get the > impression the plastic shell has to be attached to the > frame, for example. Does this ring a bell? Thanks. > > Paul Schneider, rapidly out-growing his newbie > S-tatus, but still learning! > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Who is the most visited e-mail list community Web Service? > http://www.onelist.com > ONElist.com - where more than 20 million e-mails are exchanged each day! > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3667	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor

In a message dated 6/20/99 12:48:40 PM, PortLines@... writes: << (b) add a sliding pickup shoe to the sideframe assembly (if it doesn't already have one) because without it you'll only have electrical contact from a single wheel, leading to all kinds of e-unit reversal problems. >> >> In a message dated 6/20/99 12:48:40 PM, Trains 16 wrote: <<????? All the drivers are insulated..... Doug... what are you up to??>> Well now.....I read that and immediately assumed "diesel".....not steam. BUT, steam has the same flange problem. You need to pull and disassemble the rear drivers, then reassemble them with reproduction Pullmor flanges which are deeper. Bands can then be added to them. BTW---in our recent Eric Fuchs Hobby Shop purchase, I believe the inventory includes some original Pullmor drivers (for steam!!!!!!!). Sorry for the confusion. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3668	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: PulMor

RxMan46321@... wrote: Can non-PulMor tires be converted to PulMor or does one have to install a > dedicated PulMor tire? > Roger replied: This depends on the size of your flanges. If you have large flanges you will get away with it. It is possible the old AF pullmore tires were gone before you aquired the loco. Just replace the rubber tire rings. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3669	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: FW: Phone Scam -Forwarded]

Roger wrote: I figured this was important for everyone to recieve. Phone Scam > > This can happen at home and at work, everyone should be > > aware...I've sent this to all my friends last Friday > > night and I've already had 3 email me and say that it's already > > happened to them. > > > > I received a telephone call from an individual identifying > > himself as an AT&T Service Technician that was running a test > > on our telephone lines. He stated that to complete the test we > > should touch nine (9), zero (0), pound sign (#) and hang up. > > Luckily, we were suspicious and refused. > > > > Upon contacting the telephone company we were informed that by > > pushing 90# you end up giving the individual that called you > > access to your telephone line and allows them to place a long > > distance telephone call, with the charge appearing on your > > telephone bill. > > > > We were further informed that this scam has been originating > > from many of the local jails/prisons. I have verified with > > UCB Telecomm. that this actually happens. > > > > I called GTE Security this morning and verified that this is > > definitely possible and DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE. It will > > give them access to your phone line to make long distances > > calls ANYWHERE!!!! The GTE Security department told me to go > > ahead and share this information with EVERYONE I KNOW!!! > > > > Could you PLEASE pass this on. If you have mailing lists > > and/or newsletters from organizations you are connected with, > > I encourage you to include this information. > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3670	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Looking for Pantagraphs

In a message dated 6/19/99 12:56:53 PM, jon.marinello@... writes: << I have a #499 GE NH electric and the pantographs are in really bad shape. Does anyone know where I can find replacements or know of someone who does repairs on this kind of thing? Thanks! --jon >> Jon, It is a bit of a long shot, but contact Madison Hardware in Detroit. They sometimes stock part overruns from previous Lionel production, including Flyer. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3671	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: FW: Phone Scam -Forwarded]

This is a hoax. It absolutely won't work on your home phone and almost certainly won't work on your office phone either. These two links give more information: http://x6.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=357127204&search=thread&threaded=1&CONTE XT=896717734.1217527860&hitnum=0&fmt=raw http://korova.com/virus/hoax980212.htm I would like to suggest that we not use this list as a forum for internet rumors. -----Original Message----- From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> To: Richard Hinds <par5270@...>; James Croak <frog1744@...>; Donald Hinds <DONALDHINDS@...>; Diane ? <mooredi@...>; Claire & John <papajgard@...>; CaptnT33@... <CaptnT33@...>; American Flyer forum <S-trains@onelist.com> Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 12:59 PM Subject: [S-Trains] [Fwd: Fwd: FW: Phone Scam -Forwarded] From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> Roger wrote: I figured this was important for everyone to recieve. Phone Scam > > This can happen at home and at work, everyone should be > > aware...I've sent this to all my friends last Friday > > night and I've already had 3 email me and say that it's already > > happened to them. > > > > I received a telephone call from an individual identifying > > himself as an AT&T Service Technician that was running a test > > on our telephone lines. He stated that to complete the test we > > should touch nine (9), zero (0), pound sign (#) and hang up. > > Luckily, we were suspicious and refused. > > > > Upon contacting the telephone company we were informed that by > > pushing 90# you end up giving the individual that called you > > access to your telephone line and allows them to place a long > > distance telephone call, with the charge appearing on your > > telephone bill. > > > > We were further informed that this scam has been originating > > from many of the local jails/prisons. I have verified with > > UCB Telecomm. that this actually happens. > > > > I called GTE Security this morning and verified that this is > > definitely possible and DO NOT press 90# for ANYONE. It will > > give them access to your phone line to make long distances > > calls ANYWHERE!!!! The GTE Security department told me to go > > ahead and share this information with EVERYONE I KNOW!!! > > > > Could you PLEASE pass this on. If you have mailing lists > > and/or newsletters from organizations you are connected with, > > I encourage you to include this information. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Congratulations to "PAFind," our latest ONElist of the Week. http://www.onelist.com How is ONElist changing YOUR life? Visit our homepage and let us know! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3672	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/20/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor

This is a steam vs diesel thing!! And yes, the steam drivers usually have too small a flange, although as a kid, I "pullmor'ed" my 356 Silver bullet with friction tape! Worked, too! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3673	From: John Foley	Date: 6/21/1999
Subject: Gats Maryland

Hi Folks The NASG is being offered a free booth [3 tables] at the Great American Train Show at Upper Marlboro Maryland in the Show Place Arena. On July 10th & 11th. Anyone interested in helping out please let me know. If you have a local club you are welcome to us a table to promote that club. Any help would be appreciated John Foley Eastern VP NASG 570 622 3413 e-mail foley164@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3674	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/21/1999
Subject: Rock Island Info Source

Have noticed several references to ROCK ISLAND models and prototypes in some of the discussions the last few days, thought you would want to check website http://storm.simpson.edu/~RITS/ for further info. Was not that long ago I seemed to be the only one trying to do RI in S, definitely welcome all the new interest. My own background goes back to 1950s in central Iowa alongside the Chicago-Denver main. I shut off the clock around 1975, which means no blue for me, but fine for anyone else who wants to. I can answer some questions, but may have to check with the others on that side for some, at least am curious about who all is out there now. Now that I cleaned Billy Wade out of trailers (yeah, sure, 5 plus the two TOFC's acquired earlier, I can sure use some 85' flats.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3675	From: Dave Heine	Date: 6/21/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight

Sorry, the Code 110 was a typo. I meant to say Code 100, just like most of the other S scale modelers I know. Code 110 would be a better choice for a modern mainline than Code 100 or Code 125, if it was available. Dave Heine > Dear Dave, > Where do you find code 110 rail? > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3676	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 6/21/1999
Subject: Rock

I have several nice 40' boxcars done by Tom Lennon with old Enhorning decals. They are green Rock cars with white lettering. Tom has about 450 lbs. of decals that were at one time produced by Enhorning. Not Microscale but they do the job. I also have several of the PRS 40' boxcars with the mid 40's CRIP scheme. Ken

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3677	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/21/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor question

And let's not forget that the non pullmor wheel is the same diameter at the rail as the one with pullmor. (appx.1.22 inches) You go adding a pullmor band to a non pullmor and you have increased its diameter. That can cause a wee bit of a quartering problem...Bigger wheel turns slower, drive rods get ornery........etc. Steve Blackburn RMHR Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3678	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/21/1999
Subject: Rail weights and sizes

I looked up rail weights and heights in several rail catalogs (for full size rail) and came up with the following table. It has the weights in pounds per yard of rail length, and the other dimensions are in inches. The S Scale dimension is 1/64 of the real height, and corresponds to the "code" of rail so that rail that is 0.100" high is code 100 rail, rail 0.109" high would be code 109 etc. Head Base S Scale Name Weight Width Height Width Height ASCE 12 1 2 2 0.031 ASCE 16 1 11/64 2 3/8 2 3/8 0.037 ASCE 20 1 11/32 2 5/8 2 5/8 0.041 ASCE 25 1 1/2 2 3/4 2 3/4 0.043 ASCE 30 1 11/16 3 1/8 3 1/8 0.049 ASCE 35 1 3/4 3 5/16 3 5/16 0.052 ASCE 40 1 7/8 3 1/2 3 1/2 0.055 ASCE 45 2 3 11/16 3 11/16 0.058 ASCE 50 2 1/8 3 7/8 3 7/8 0.061 ASCE 55 2 1/4 4 1/16 4 1/16 0.063 ASCE 60 2 3/8 4 1/4 4 1/4 0.066 ASCE 65 2 13/32 4 7/16 4 7/16 0.069 ASCE 70 2 7/16 4 5/8 4 5/8 0.072 LV 80 2 1/2 4 3/4 5 0.074 ASCE 75 2 15/32 4 13/16 4 13/16 0.075 ARA-B 80 2 7/16 4 15/16 4 7/16 0.077 ASCE 80 2 1/2 5 5 0.078 LV 90 2 3/4 5 5 0.078 PRR 85 2 9/16 5 5 0.078 ARA-A 80 2 1/2 5 1/8 4 5/8 0.080 Dudley 80 2 21/32 5 1/8 5 0.080 PS 85 2 1/2 5 1/8 4 5/8 0.080 ASCE 85 2 9/16 5 3/16 5 3/16 0.081 DL&W 91 2 5/8 5 1/4 5 3/8 0.082 Dudley 85 2 11/15 5 1/4 5 0.082 ARA-B 90 2 9/16 5 17/64 4 49/64 0.082 ARA-A 85 2 1/2 5 3/8 4 7/8 0.084 ASCE 90 2 5/8 5 3/8 5 3/8 0.084 DL&W 101 2 3/4 5 7/16 5 3/8 0.085 Dudley 90 2 21/32 5 1/2 5 0.086 PRR 100 2 13/16 5 1/2 5 1/2 0.086 ARA-A 90 2 9/16 5 5/8 5 1/8 0.088 RDG 100 2 21/32 5 5/8 5 3/8 0.088 ARA-B 100 2 11/32 5 41/64 5 9/64 0.088 P.S. 100 2 43/64 5 11/16 5 0.089 ASCE 100 2 3/4 5 3/4 5 3/4 0.090 A.R.E.A. 100 2 11/16 6 5 3/8 0.094 ARA-A 100 2 3/4 6 5 1/2 0.094 DL&W 105 2 3/4 6 5 3/8 0.094 Dudley 100 3 6 5 1/2 0.094 Dudley 105 3 6 5 1/2 0.094 LV 110 2 7/8 6 5 1/2 0.094 NYNH&H 100 2 3/4 6 5 1/2 0.094 NYNH&H 107 2 3/4 6 1/8 5 1/2 0.096 A.R.E.A. 110 2 25/32 6 1/4 5 1/2 0.098 CNJ 135 3 5/32 6 1/2 6 0.102 DL&W-M 118 2 7/8 6 1/2 5 3/8 0.102 Dudley 115 3 6 1/2 5 1/2 0.102 PRR 125 3 6 1/2 5 1/8 0.102 A.R.E.A. 112 2 23/32 6 5/8 5 1/2 0.104 A.R.E.A. 115 2 23/32 6 5/8 5 1/2 0.104 P.S. 130 3 6 5/8 5 1/2 0.104 A.R.E.A. 130 2 15/16 6 3/4 6 0.105 CF&I 119 2 21/32 6 13/16 5 1/2 0.106 HF 130 2 55/64 6 27/32 6 0.107 B,C&O 122 2 15/16 6 7/8 6 0.107 HF-B 130 2 27/32 6 15/16 6 0.108 Dudley 127 3 7 6 1/4 0.109 LV 136 2 15/16 7 6 1/2 0.109 LV-M 136 2 15/16 7 6 1/2 0.109 Dudley- Modified 127 3 7 6 1/4 0.109 A.R.E.A. 133 3 7 1/16 6 0.110 A.R.E.A. 131 3 7 1/8 6 0.111 A.R.E.A. 132 3 7 1/8 6 0.111 Dudley 136 2 15/16 7 9/32 6 1/4 0.114 A.R.E.A. 140 3 7 5/16 6 0.114 LV-H 136 2 15/16 7 3/8 6 1/2 0.115 P.S. 152 3 8 6 3/4 0.125 P.S. 155 3 8 6 3/4 0.125  The weights are sorted by rail heights. As you can see, the 152 P.S. and 155 P.S. are the highest listed and are the highest I know of in use on railroads. The weights below 50 pounds are generally used for mines. The lightest is getting down to the amusement park train size. Most mainlines are being relaid with rail in the 130 pound or heavier range, with 140 pound being about the heaviest. 152 and 155 have not been rolled for many years and do not have the metallurgical properties in demand today. Even industry sidings are generally laid with rail of 100 pounds or heavier. However, as many will realize upon looking at many tracks still in service, shortlines and little used tracks often have lighter rail than those mentioned. Modelling in an earlier period also gives cause for using lighter rail. Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3679	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor question

In a message dated 6/22/99 12:02:08 AM, Boss31@... writes: << That can cause a wee bit of a quartering problem...Bigger wheel turns slower, drive rods get ornery........etc. >> Also, the engine will not sit level on the track. Have you ever noticed that in addition to all of the other 'charms' of the Casey Jones engines, they have this problem, too? RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3680	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: Latest Status at B.T.S.

Howdy Friends Rare - Be ready to act on some one-of-a-kind and/or rare S and Sn3 stuff that will be posted to the B.T.S. web site at http://www.btsrr.com/btsodd01.htm in a few days. Really nifty stuff! Sn3 Hoppers - Well, it really is hard to believe, but after an 18-month delay, we received a box late yesterday from the caster, and now have just finished labeling the first batch of the E.B.T. 3-bay hoppers! We are getting them ready to ship out tomorrow. The small 50-car batches, split with half standard and half extended-side cars, will be coming in over the next two months, so please be just a little more patient as it will take several batches to catch up the backorders. We have already doubled the original order, and are almost sold out. If you have been waiting until the cars existed to order, or need to add to your current order, please do so soon so that we can add them to this group of cars and hopefully not have you waiting another year! These urethane cars feature rivets on the interior, cross-bracing and gussets so they will look goodempty. And the kits include decals, pre-bent grabs, and couplers. #9102 E.B.T. Three-Bay Steel Hopper $36.95 #9103 E.B.T. Three-Bay Steel Hopper, Extended Sides $36.95 Also still available (less trucks and couplers).... #9100 E.B.T. Two-Bay Hopper $34.95 #9101 E.B.T. Steel Flat Car $24.95 On other E.B.T. project fronts..... Orbisonia Station - Finishing up the instructions and trying to get the O sample built and construction photos shot. The S scale model will follow right behind it. Chimneys, snowshoes, and detail casting are finished for both S and O. E.B.T. #12 2-8-2 - Getting revised price quotes from the builders now. Will look them over and let you know how much and when. Still looking at #11, 2-6-2, and second #5 & #9, 2-6-0. A laser-cut kit of the E.B.T. Caboose will be done after the Orbisonia Station is finished. Followed by a couple of wood box cars, wood hoppers, and some other neat stuff. Next urethane E.B.T. kit will be the steel, riveted Flat Car #73. And on the other project fronts.... The S Sawmill is getting somewhat closer. I have a fax that states the samples of the machinery were shipped from China last month... presumed lost, and another package is on the way. Have also finally found a fellow in the U.S. who can do some patterns for urethane parts, and do it well! One way or another, this dang thing will get done!!!! Look for the pilot model on display the NMRA Train Show next month! S/Sn3 Modeling Guide - The next issue, May/June, is still in the works here. The scanner died, and was sent to California for resurrection. Back in the saddle now, and trying to get the mag finished up and to the printer. Thanks for your support! Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3681	From: John Foley	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: Chantilly Virginia Greenberg's Train Show

Hi Folks I tried to get a table at the this Greenberg show in Chantilly Va. on July 10-11 at the Capital Exbo Center. But no room. This show will be a Great one for S gaugers. Two S clubs will have their layouts set up and running. The Baltimore AF Club and the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers I will have the NASG table setup at the Great American Train Show on the same weekend in Upper Marlboro Maryland at the Show Place Arena. So if you are planning to go to either show please visit the Greenberg show one day and if you are able come visit me at GATS. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3682	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: PRR Keystone Decals

Hi, Once again i am searching for decals. What I would like this time is to find some PRR keystones. The ones with red background and single gold trim. I need the ones with numbers in the center instead of the entangled PRR letters. The best would be a blank center a seperate numbers. Should i really just put myself out of my misery and buy an Alps printer? Who said that scratchbuilding was cheap? kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3683	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: Baldwin Traction Question

Thanks to the help from many of you I have finally got my childhood Seaboard Baldwins running again. I was the one with the brush questions (topic was Baldwin Brush Hell). Now that it is running again, there is one more minor problem I want to see if I can resolve; when I apply power the drive wheels spin freely against the track a lot as the engine gains speed. I have to apply power very slowly to work around the problem. Is there a permanent fix for this problem? Can I add weight to the engine? Are the drive wheels to old and worn? Or is this normal for Baldwins? I don't remember how it ran back in 1959. In any case, it goes like the dickens once it gets up to speed! It really brought back the memories! :-) Thanks again to all for helping me with the brush problem! --jon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3684	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: Village Depot

To put to bed any lingering doubts, I visited Village Depot in Cottage Grove, Oregon, today. They are very much in business, as my wallet can tell you. The thing is, they are located in a new building across from the Village Green motel. They used to be in the old OP&E ticket office behind the motel, visible from Interstate 5. The building is still there, with their name on it, and is obviously empty and in ill repair. Thus, the impression by passers-by that they are gone. Village Depot does not own the old building, and so have no control over what is done with, or to, the building and its now-misleading sign. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3685	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 6/22/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight

mhrreast@... wrote: > Somebody asked about the relationship between prototype > rail weight, and model RR rail. > >From the BK Enterprises (switches) catalog comes the following > information for S scale. > > Code 55 40 lb. narrow gauge yard and siding > 70 65 lb. narrow gauge mainline, std gauge yard and > siding > 83 85 lb. std gauge yard and siding > 100 110 lb. branch line or modern yard and siding > 125 155 lb. modern mainline Code 125 scales out to 8" high -- used only in the Northeast Corridor. Code 100 represents the relatively heavy mainline rail commonly used in the middle of the century. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3686	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: Baldwin Traction Question

In a message dated 6/22/99 3:55:01 PM, jon.marinello@... writes: << Now that it is running again, there is one more minor problem I want to see if I can resolve; when I apply power the drive wheels spin freely against the track a lot as the engine gains speed. I have to apply power very slowly to work around the problem. Is there a permanent fix for this problem? >> Baldwins are light, and this is one of their drawbacks operationally. A couple thoughts........... 1. Check your Pullmor tires. They may need replacing after all of these years, and they are very easy to replace. 2. Baldwin traction is also affected by distortions in the soft aluminum chassis. Check to see whether or not your chassis is 'true'. 3. If these are a Seaboard (or CNW) pair, placing the powered unit second and running it backwards can sometimes improve performance (i.e., the torque of the engine and the cars in the train act to push down on the nose of the engine in this direction). Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3687	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: Baldwin Traction Question

RB, I checked the tires and also gave them a very, very light roughing up with an emery board. That didn't help much. However, I recently replaced the springs on the trucks that hold down the little knobs that make contact with the track. I think these springs are actually a little too string and the engine truck is being slightly lifted from the track. I'm going to experiment with this next. As far as the chassis goes it is pretty strait but not perfect. I'll take another look at that too. I like the 3rd idea. I wouldn't have thought of that! I'll give it a try. Thanks for the helpful suggestions! --jon > -----Original Message----- > From: RBubeck327@... [SMTP:RBubeck327@...] > Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 1999 6:46 AM > To: jon.marinello@...; S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Baldwin Traction Question > > > In a message dated 6/22/99 3:55:01 PM, jon.marinello@... writes: > > << Now that it is running again, there is one more minor > problem I want to see if I can resolve; when I apply power the drive > wheels > spin freely against the track a lot as the engine gains speed. I have to > apply power very slowly to work around the problem. > > Is there a permanent fix for this problem? >> > > Baldwins are light, and this is one of their drawbacks operationally. > > A couple thoughts........... > > 1. Check your Pullmor tires. They may need replacing after all of these > years, and they are very easy to replace. > 2. Baldwin traction is also affected by distortions in the soft aluminum > chassis. Check to see whether or not your chassis is 'true'. > 3. If these are a Seaboard (or CNW) pair, placing the powered unit second > and > running it backwards can sometimes improve performance (i.e., the torque > of > the engine and the cars in the train act to push down on the nose of the > engine in this direction). > > Hope this helps. > > RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3688	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor question

Ok, I'm a bit late, but I was doing railroading! One other point to remember when adding pul-mor to Steam locos, is there are two diameters of the large wheels! Only slightly different, but it does make a difference!! Also remember this when replacing a wheel. Loco gets really wobbley and it drives you bananas trying to figure out what's wrong, because it looks fine, and runs fine (well, upside down it does!). I believe the difference in diameter occured when the Pul-mor wheels were developed. S' David D. PS. Adding pul-mors to a chassis with the smaller diameter makes the loco sit uphill, or down, depending on which axle you put them on!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3689	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: Rail weights and sizes

Wow!! Great posting Chris! Many thanks. I talked to guys at railfair, and mostly what's being laid out here on UP and BNSF is 136 and 133 on mains, sidings can be 115, and of course, depending on use, down to 85, although, I was told, not much of that around anymore. I hadn't thought of it, but the big railroads are trimming their physical plants and concentrating on moving stuff and letting the shortlines do most of the switching, etc. So the days of branch lines and seldom-used siding where "worn out" rail could be reused is going away. S' David D. three days of no railfair--withdrawl setting in!! I miss the coal & wood & oil smoke already! Mt Emily Shay was practicing for the Big Shay Race yesterday, impressive start! Wish I'd had my camera on me! Lots of little guys around, the Eureka is pulling a nifty combo car. Carter people have thier horsecar here too & the real fun thing is they have a wood flatcar remains (As Kyle Wyatt described it, "It's dead, Jim") that they are rebuilding. When I left last night, they were laying out the center sills and cross timbers. This is all being done with hand tools, and the kids are doing a lot of the work! Should have a complete car done by the end of the fair!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3690	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Forward: Ertl Chassis

<<<FORWARD FROM AL BABBITT>>> "S" Guys-- Some time ago I noticed discussions on Ertl Geep conversions to S scale. Does anyone have a left-over chassis or two from the original Ertl battery-operated toy locomotive? If so, I'd be glad to purchase them, including postage. Regard"S" Al Babbitt Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3691	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: MDT-PFE

The April 1986 RMC concludes a 4 part series on PFE reefers. A fascinating comment worth noting follows; "PFE and MDT shared cars in each other's off-season." This establishes justification for using MDT cars in California settings, and in any area served by PFE; the whole country! Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3692	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: Rail Weight

Richard Karnes <karnesrn@...> wrote: > Code 125 scales out to 8" high -- used only in the Northeast Corridor. Code > 100 represents the relatively heavy mainline rail commonly used in the > middle of the century. I believe that any 155 lb rail that may have once been installed on the NEC was removed many years ago; probably the last of it went when Amtrak was rebuilding everything in the late 70s and early 80s. My impression was that PRR used it mainly on its most heavily trafficked freight lines in Pennsylvania and Ohio. I don't know how much may be still in service, but the clock is definitely ticking on this oversize rail. I'm sure a Pennsy expert, which I am surely not, can tell us where it was used at the peak of its extent and where it remains today. Anyway, the bottom line is if you're a scale modeler not modeling the Pennsy you have no use for Code 125 rail. --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling englij@... | R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D | Route of the Whippet ---------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3693	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: MDT-PFE

Ted Larson, > The April 1986 RMC concludes a 4 part series on PFE reefers. A > fascinating comment worth noting follows; "PFE and MDT shared cars in > each other's off-season." This establishes justification for using MDT > cars in California settings, and in any area served by PFE; the whole > country! This is indeed true, although the same author has related about interviews with old operating crews and shipper employees who said that MDT cars were generally unsatisfactory in comparison with the PFEs, in terms of cleanliness and general state of repair. PFE was known for running a tight ship, but apparently MDT was not so careful about maintaining their cars. The car pooling agreement made economic sense, but shippers didn't necessarily appreciate it. I recommend that anyone interested in reefers should read the PFE book that was published a few years ago. One of the book's three authors is also the author of the RMC article Ted referred to. --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling englij@... | R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D | Route of the Whippet ---------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3694	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Another automobile candidate

Hi Ya'll, I'm often a bit jealous when I read about those great buys on diecast cars suitable for S that are to be found real cheap at Target or Wal-Mart. I religiously run down to the nearest ones to me. There I find mostly bathtubs with wheels and gaudy paint. But today, I found a nice sale on a pleasant looking car. It is made by Ertl and sold as a part of the Thomas the Tank Engine set of toys. The car is a blue coupe (which in the series belongs to Sir Topham Hatt - the railroad controller) of a generic type. It looks an awful lot like a '40 Chevy that my brother drove. The paint is the right color, the wheels and tires look good, the front grille has black paint in the recesses to make it look even better than plain chrome. At the local Toys R Us they have a bunch at $1.98. This car could add a lot of scenic beauty for any 1940-1957 era layout. Check it out, there may be more of these out there other than in West Palm Beach. Great ZOT itS, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3695	From: Jarcho	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: refrigerator cars

About a year ago, I read about an intriguing incident in a history book. At one point in this century some California millionaires shipped arms to Mexico for a right wing coup in the empty ice compartments of refrigerator cars. Unfortunately, can't find the reference. Would these have been PFE cars? Is anyone on list familiar with this incident? My recollection is that the coup never came off and the weapons had to be removed clandestinely the way they had come. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3696	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/23/1999
Subject: Re: Another automobile candidate

AHEM!! Excuuuse me Bill, That's a '36 FORD!!! Cheesh!! Chevy!!! Hrmph!!! <RBG> But it is a close scale model, I have a few myself. Seems to me someone recently mentioned another TT car or truck that is now out that fits well to; I looked around the Western Depot today, but didn't see anything that looked 'right' -- anyone know what the other critter is? BTW, Thomas is sitting around Railfair with a tummy ache. The kids still love to get his picture though. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3697	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: CT S Gaugers Photos

Hi all, The Connecticut S Gaugers have updated the website with a page on Stan Stokrocki's layout following a meeting at his house in Poughkeepsie, NY on Saturday, June 19. Stan is one of the finest S scale modelers that I have ever seen so you might want to view the pages with color pics that I created for him at: http://trainweb.org/csg/stokrocki/stokrocki.html Enjoy! Craig S. O'Connell CSG, NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3698	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: For Sale 'Scale' Undec AM USRA 4-6-2 @ NASG Convention

Does anybody want to buy an 'Scale' Undec American Models USRA 4-6-2 - New in box - never run $325.00 - I can bring it to the NASG convention if I have a buyer - please reply off list -- Kelvin White Oxford England kelvin@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3699	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: OT- APS Cameras

Off Topic Apologies for a off topic question I recently bought my daughter an APS camera complete with built in zoom etc. I'm very impressed by its lightness and compact size. I'm considering buying one as a back up. and general snap shot camera to my big heavy lumbering SLR for when I'm railfanning etc in Wisconsin / Michigan UP in a weeks time. A few questions for those who own APS Camera. Is a APS camera suitable for railfanning with - will it slow the motion on a 50mph train? As the APS cameras I've seen are automatic exposure do you need to use a high ASA film (400 ASA+) to ensure a fast shutter speed. Are APS prints suitable for scanning - I've heard that the quality degrades with scanning? Are undeveloped APS 'films' subject to fogging or the like by airport X ray/scanning devices? Thanks for your comments in advance Best regards -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3700	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Truck Repair

Has anyone found, or designed, a crimping tool to reattach loose or separated sintered iron truck sideframes (on cars) back to the truck frame? A buddy and I were talking about this problem on the phone tonight. Reattachment would certainly be easier, and less expensive, than replacing with a whole new truck assembly. Your comments would be appreciated. Steve Pendleton

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3701	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Truck Repair

I don't think anyone has designed a special tool, although it would be welcome. Its been my experience that if there is enough metal left around the mounting area, that a side frame can be successfully reattached. Removal of the truck is inevitable no matter what, so it would be no easier to repair than replace.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3702	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Truck Repair

I have reattached by peening the metal of the frame. You seat the side frame onto the sheet metal. If necessary flatten out the sheet metal a bit to get a tighter fit. Then use a center punch to strike the sheet metal from the top, leaving a visible punch mark, right next to the sintered iron. This requuires top access. If you want to try a chintzier repair that doesn't need top access and may last for years just epoxy the pieces together and let set for a day. They must be clean. Steve & Cathy Pendleton wrote: > > From: "Steve & Cathy Pendleton" <bestofbreed@...> > > Has anyone found, or designed, a crimping tool to reattach loose or > separated sintered iron truck sideframes (on cars) back to the truck frame? > A buddy and I were talking about this problem on the phone tonight. > Reattachment would certainly be easier, and less expensive, than replacing > with a whole new truck assembly. Your comments would be appreciated. > > Steve Pendleton > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend? > http://www.onelist.com > Come join one of 175,000 e-mail communities at ONElist! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3703	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Ertl Frevy

Thomas the Tank - Regarding the Ertl car, it was originally a Dick Tracy car, a model of one of the cars in that movie. I have the all four Dick Tracy cars. I was told (or read somewhere) that NONE of the cars in that movie were "real" cars. I was told that the movie propmakers went out to the junk yard and took parts from here and there, and kitbashed them into realistic looking cars that are not really any prototype, so that they would not have to pay royalties to any car maker! Is this true? I don't know. If yes, perhaps some people are indeed recognizing certain features from real cars. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3704	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Camelback

I have occasionally heard about people converting AF Atlantics to camelbacks. The Feb. '88 MR has an article about Reading Atlantic Camelbacks, for anybody looking for prototypical information. The article includes pictures and drawings. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3705	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy

That is consistent with statements on the back of the package. It sez the model is of no particular prototype. Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: mhrreast@... <mhrreast@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 9:48 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Ertl Frevy >From: mhrreast@... > >Thomas the Tank - >Regarding the Ertl car, it was originally a Dick Tracy car, >a model of one of the cars in that movie. I have the all four >Dick Tracy cars. I was told (or read somewhere) that >NONE of the cars in that movie were "real" cars. I was told >that the movie propmakers went out to the junk yard and >took parts from here and there, and kitbashed them into >realistic looking cars that are not really any prototype, so that >they would not have to pay royalties to any car maker! Is this >true? I don't know. If yes, perhaps some people are indeed >recognizing certain features from real cars. > >Ted Larson >Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3706	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy

This almost reminds me of Canadian-built Dodges of the early 1950s and 1960s. For quite a few years, they had a version that was an American Dodge in the front and Plymouth in the rear. Trucks were tradenamed "Largo" but were otherwise Dodge. Ford also had Mercury pickups in the 1950s, there used to be one in north Wichita, Kansas. I guess the extreme case was the Johnny Cash Cadillac with parts from many years to go with his gag song of that era. A similar project was done in Des Moines in the 1950s by Bob Mayo; he started with a Hobbytown E-7 A and B, powered the B unit to include a shaft to the rear truck of the A unit, reshaped the nose and cab of the A unit to show distinct features of Sharknoses, PAs, and Erie-Builts, then installed his own Rube Goldberg mechanism that resulted in a genuine lazy-8 Mars light pattern. I saw it. Bill Porter wrote: > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > > That is consistent with statements on the back of the package. It sez the > model is of no particular prototype. > > Bill Porter > > -----Original Message----- > From: mhrreast@... <mhrreast@...> > To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> > Date: Thursday, June 24, 1999 9:48 PM > Subject: [S-Trains] Ertl Frevy > > >From: mhrreast@... > > > >Thomas the Tank - > >Regarding the Ertl car, it was originally a Dick Tracy car, > >a model of one of the cars in that movie. I have the all four > >Dick Tracy cars. I was told (or read somewhere) that > >NONE of the cars in that movie were "real" cars. I was told > >that the movie propmakers went out to the junk yard and > >took parts from here and there, and kitbashed them into > >realistic looking cars that are not really any prototype, so that > >they would not have to pay royalties to any car maker! Is this > >true? I don't know. If yes, perhaps some people are indeed > >recognizing certain features from real cars. > > > >Ted Larson > >Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > How has ONElist changed your life? > Share your story with us at http://www.onelist.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3707	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Removeal from list

Hello, Please remove me from the S-Trains@onelist.com, I will sign back on when I return. Thanks, Tom Davis(TPDavis7@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3708	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Camelback

Kit-Bashing AF steam engines, huh? Heck, there ain't any passenger cars left, and I have yet to find a prototype for a stretched AF gon. You have something else in S to be proud of close to home. Back in the 1960s, there was a senior gentleman named John Meyers who did unbelieveable things to AF steamers--like anything up to a 4-8-8-4 when done. His favorite was a PRR K-5 stretched one driver to a 4-8-2, and that was a darn nice one. I don't know how long he has been gone, or what ever happened to the engines, but Gale Hall, Rusty Westermeier, and some of us got to see the beautiful beasts firsthand. mhrreast@... wrote: > From: mhrreast@... > > I have occasionally heard about people converting AF > Atlantics to camelbacks. The Feb. '88 MR has an > article about Reading Atlantic Camelbacks, for anybody > looking for prototypical information. The article includes > pictures and drawings. > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > What do fashion and football have in common? > http://www.onelist.com > They both have communities at ONElist. Find yours today! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3709	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: MDT-PFE

Don't forget those BAR cars roaming around in winter too. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle mhrreast@... wrote: > > From: mhrreast@... > > The April 1986 RMC concludes a 4 part series on PFE reefers. A > fascinating comment worth noting follows; "PFE and MDT shared cars in > each other's off-season." This establishes justification for using MDT > cars in California settings, and in any area served by PFE; the whole > country! > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Find people who care about what you care about. > http://www.onelist.com > At ONElist: your connection to community. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3710	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy: Sir Topum Hat's car

OK everyone, I finally battled the spider webs and took mine off the layout (yes, the tree's gone, but the Christmas layout is still up, might go down next month! (after a year and a half!)) Now, before I begin, y'all might not know that for the last 20 years I made most of my living restoring cars, mostly Rolls Royces and Model A's (yeah, I know, strange mix, but that's the way it went), and one car I did was a '36 Ford Convertable Sedan. So; the car in question has reasonable facimiles of 36 ford bumpers, front and rear. Grill and headlights are also, although the grill is blacked out (an old hot-rodder's favorite trick). The fenders even have bulges where the horn grills would be. Hood had louvers in the proper pattern, and the body has the characteristic belt molding crease all the way around the rear deck. The cowl vent is right, and the roof has the markings for the insert center panel. Tailamp 'bumps' on the back fenders are to non-descript to say aye or nay. I really think if you took it to a car show and showed it to a V-8 Ford 'nut', he'd say, "looks like a '36 Ford coupe to me!" I don't know about the rest of the Dick Tracy cars, as I can't look at them, but I thought they were fairly close to other models of the period. Seems to me I heard Dick's car was a '40 Ford, but that was a bit ago. Usually movie makers rent cars from owners, unless they want to do something odd too them. For instance (ancient history) when "The Absent-minded Proffessor" was going to be filmed, they wanted to buy an axcquantance's '15 T, but when he found out what they wanted to do to it (remove engine, etc. so it could "fly") he refused, his car was too nice to do THAT to it. He suggested another, less complete car. Later they discovered that they need "drive around" shots, and a duplicate car, so they rented his car too. My A has been in two movies also, but only bit parts (1/2 second to a closing scene) Back to trains! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3711	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Truck Repair

I have a method for re-attaching these using a floor rivet, I'm in the process of writing it up for the next Dispatch, when I get my info all together, I'll try to remember to post a synopsis. I have rarely had success with re-doing them factory style. My column deadline is middle of next week, so if anyone is still curious and I've forgotten, post me!! Mind is on Railfair 99! S' David D. Funny thing, even though the train leaves well-defined tracks, you can't tell by looking at them which way it went!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3712	From: Andy Hornback	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy

I'm not sure that that's true or not... I ended up getting a model of one of the cars (made by Ertl, no less) from the movie as a gift a number of years back... and it said, on the box, that it was a 32 Ford... supposedly Dick Tracy's personal car. Never seen the movie, so I won't speculate on what they actually used in the movie... but it seems funny that they'd use "kit bashed" cars in the movie, and sell a 32 Ford as part of the merchandising... --- Andy "The night sky has always been a mystery to us. Hell, heaven is supposed to be out there somewhere, along with aliens, comets, black holes, pulsars, quasars, blue novas, and, with any luck, Captain Kirk and the _Enterprise_ protecting us from the Klingons." -- Jimmy Buffett, _A Pirate Looks at Fifty_ > -----Original Message----- > From: mhrreast@... [mailto:mhrreast@...] > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 9:47 PM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Ertl Frevy > > > From: mhrreast@... > > Thomas the Tank - > Regarding the Ertl car, it was originally a Dick Tracy car, > a model of one of the cars in that movie. I have the all four > Dick Tracy cars. I was told (or read somewhere) that > NONE of the cars in that movie were "real" cars. I was told > that the movie propmakers went out to the junk yard and > took parts from here and there, and kitbashed them into > realistic looking cars that are not really any prototype, so that > they would not have to pay royalties to any car maker! Is this > true? I don't know. If yes, perhaps some people are indeed > recognizing certain features from real cars.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3713	From: Andy Hornback	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy

Umm, that's Fargo, not Largo. And Chrysler still uses the Fargo name over in the middle east. They have a truck plant in Turkey that turns out the functional equivalent of the Dodge Ram line, but as Fargos. --- Andy "The night sky has always been a mystery to us. Hell, heaven is supposed to be out there somewhere, along with aliens, comets, black holes, pulsars, quasars, blue novas, and, with any luck, Captain Kirk and the _Enterprise_ protecting us from the Klingons." -- Jimmy Buffett, _A Pirate Looks at Fifty_ > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave and Kathy Engle [mailto:ironhors@...] > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 10:59 PM > To: Bill Porter > Cc: S-Trains List > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Ertl Frevy > > > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > > This almost reminds me of Canadian-built Dodges of the early 1950s and > 1960s. For quite a few years, they had a version that was an > American Dodge > in the front and Plymouth in the rear. Trucks were tradenamed "Largo" but > were otherwise Dodge. Ford also had Mercury pickups in the > 1950s, there used > to be one in north Wichita, Kansas. I guess the extreme case was > the Johnny > Cash Cadillac with parts from many years to go with his gag song of that > era. A similar project was done in Des Moines in the 1950s by > Bob Mayo; he > started with a Hobbytown E-7 A and B, powered the B unit to > include a shaft > to the rear truck of the A unit, reshaped the nose and cab of the > A unit to > show distinct features of Sharknoses, PAs, and Erie-Builts, then installed > his own Rube Goldberg mechanism that resulted in a genuine lazy-8 > Mars light > pattern. I saw it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3714	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: OT- APS Cameras

Hi Kelvin, see my comments inserted below. To the rest of you, sorry about the off-topic reply but I thought some others on the list might be interested in this as well since photography is often a hobby within a hobby for a lot of us. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle kelvin white wrote: > Is a APS camera suitable for railfanning with - will it slow the motion > on a 50mph train? The better cameras like the EOS IX, EOS IX Lite, and the Olympus Centurion are great for railfanning. I'm considering a Canon EOS IX as a second body because of the panorama format. Remember, APS is strictly the standard for the film transport and the data encoding on the film. Other than that, APS film and cameras work just like regular 35 mm film and cameras. To learn more about APS in general, go to http://www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/aps/how_aps.shtml > > As the APS cameras I've seen are automatic exposure do you need to use a > high ASA film (400 ASA+) to ensure a fast shutter speed. Again, the better APS camera's have all of the features of a 35 mm SLR. The one downside is that only print film is available for the APS format. However, Kodak recently introduced B&W film for the format so maybe slide film is on the way. The slowest APS film I've seen is ISO 100 and that's a lot faster than Kodachrome 64 or 25. > > Are APS prints suitable for scanning - I've heard that the quality > degrades with scanning? > Here's the real beauty of APS. Instead of scanning prints, you scan the actual film in an APS film scanner that sends the images to a PC. The resolution is generally about 800 x 600 pixels so you can easily produce sharp 8x10 prints on a photo-realistic printer like those made by HP, Epson, and Alps. Minolta's Dim�ge film scanners (http://www.minoltausa.com/mainframe.asp?productID=62&whichProductSection=1&whichSection=2) with APS adapters get double-megapixel (2400+ DPI) resolution but aren't as automated as the strait APS scanners like the Kodak FD300 (http://www.kodak.com/cgi-bin/webCatalog.pl?product=KODAK+ADVANTIX+Film+Drive+FD+300) > Are undeveloped APS 'films' subject to fogging or the like by airport X > ray/scanning devices? Yes, as is any latent image using silver salts. However, take the right precautions like asking for hand inspections and give the guards enough time to do the inspections and you won't have any problems. Also, the lower the film speed, the less chance there is of film fogging. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3715	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/24/1999
Subject: Re: CT S Gaugers Photos

Stan, I have to concur with Mr. O'Connell, that IS some of the finest S scale modeling I've ever seen! Puleeez show us more! Especially in print. Thanks for the inspiration. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle "Craig S. O'Connell" wrote: > The Connecticut S Gaugers have updated the website with a page on Stan > Stokrocki's layout following a meeting at his house in Poughkeepsie, NY on > Saturday, June 19. Stan is one of the finest S scale modelers that I have > ever seen so you might want to view the pages with color pics that I > created for him at: > > http://trainweb.org/csg/stokrocki/stokrocki.html > > Enjoy! > > Craig S. O'Connell > CSG, NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3716	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Clouds

Has anyone found a great way to paint clouds on a backdrop wall. I have the wall painted blue, which was the easy part. Do I use a sponge or a brush? Any ideas would be appreciated? By the way, what about the colors used? Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3717	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Lionel Products, any out there?

Hi All, Does anyone know if Lionel (Lyin'L) has announced any new products for 1999 yet? When the only "real" maker of American Flyer doesn't make anything, it sure makes it hard for this collector to be interested in collecting anymore. There isn't anything to look forward too!!!! Wayne Broadhead American Flyer Collector (and loosing interest fast)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3718	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: READING CAMELBACKS

The most used Reading Camelbacks were 10 wheelers, 2-6-0 so a Pacific chassis would be best. Balston makes a Camelback body for those not up to bashing but a friend couldn't quite get Balstons to fit a Pacific chassis. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3719	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel Products, any out there?

In a message dated 6/25/99 9:13:27 AM, wayne@... writes: << When the only "real" maker of American Flyer doesn't make anything, it sure makes it hard for this collector to be interested in collecting anymore. There isn't anything to look forward too!!!! >> Surely, Wayne, you do not yet own one of everything Gilbert made do you? :) RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3720	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Odds and ends

Sir Top'em Hat's (aka Dick Tracy) http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/details/autos.htm Stan Stokrocki http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/nasg_con/nasg_986.htm Mel Nielsen's Ballston Locomotive http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/info/mel.htm I have also added more Flyer Photos to the numbers list. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/numbers/af_nums1.html If you have some pictures that will help fill out the list let me know. I am going to borrow a digital camera and shoot my stuff. Mostly common stuff. Paul Yorke American Flyer operator/Stereo Photographer S-Trains Mailing / http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains (Primary Email Yorke@... - Backup paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3721	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Re: Clouds

A method that has worked well for me is to use cardboard templates and spray white paint. Cut the top curves of clouds in a couple of pieces of shirt cardboard (or any other cardboard about the size of the side of a cereal box). Only the top curves are required. I usually make three 'depths' of these cutouts: deep for nearby high clouds, nearly flat for distant ones and in-between for......in-between. Then hold the template 1 to 3 inches from the wall and lightly spray along the curved edge. Some paint will go onto the cardboard and be lost (until it drips off onto your clothes) the rest will go on the wall. The distance from the wall determines whether the top edges of the clouds are sharp as in fast rising thunderheads or fuzzy as in lazy clouds suitable for inspiration. Spray a little...move the template and maybe rotate it a few degrees then spray some more. Distant clouds are lower down the wall than the nearby ones are. If you want, I'll try for a picture or two to post somewhere or other. Good Luck, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 8:53 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Clouds >From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > >Has anyone found a great way to paint clouds on a backdrop wall. I have >the wall painted blue, which was the easy part. Do I use a sponge or a >brush? Any ideas would be appreciated? By the way, what about the >colors used? > >Mike Leahy >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3722	From: JTMGoBlue@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: AF Wants

Hi, Anyone out there have (or know someone who would) three items they would sell: AF HighTrestle Set (Orange -12 4.5" girders) UP Observation Car Greenberg Volume II Thanks for your help! Terry MacEwen (jtmgoblue@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3723	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: 152-155 # rail

Although PC and Amtrak replaced most of the 152 and 155# rail in the northeast corridor with 140# welded rail, there are still a few places with the heavier rail left. Some railroad other than the PRR used 152 and 155 # rail, including the Bessemer and Lake Erie. In the early 70's, the B&LE generally used 140# curvemaster rail on curves, and welded 152 or 155# on tangents. The metallurgy of the 152 and 155 # rail sections wasn't as good as the more modern 140#, and the 140# was found to hold up better on curves. Don't get too concerned about the height of rail, the width is equally important in appearance, but nobody seems to worry about that! Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3724	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Re: Truck Repair

Steve Pendleton asked. "Has anyone found, or designed, a crimping tool to reattach loose or separated sintered iron truck sideframes (on cars) back to the truck frame?" Occasionally I've had good luck with expanding the sheet metal using the centerpunch method, but it doesn't seem to work all of the time. However, I've had excellent success with drilling the bolster and side frame and then using a self-tapping 2-56 screw to hold them together. If you don't mind bending the bolster before drilling, you don't have to remove the truck from the car. If the 2-56 screw is painted black, it's hardly visible even if you're looking for it. One trick is to put the sideframe and bolster together whilst drilling them so the holes line up with each other correctly. Although it isn't wrong to drill a larger hole in the bolster to clear the threads of the screw, it isn't necessary either as the bolster should be tight against the sideframe when driving the screw in. I use pan-head 2-56 self tapping screws 1/4" long. They never break! Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3725	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Flyer prototypes

Received only one response to my original query, so I'll try again. Does anyone have any information on the prototypes for Flyer cars 952 (Pike's Peak) and 954 (Grand Canyon)? They must have been Pullman cars, but which ones? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3726	From: Raymond Abbott	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Ertl Gp35

I have a pair of ertl gp35 ,s that i would like to detail and make usable power units out of them. has this been done by someone and can they give me some ideas and feedback, on how they converted them ? Ray Abbott nasg, rasg ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3727	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Rare S Stuff for Sale

Howdy Friends Well, we still have a few photos to post, and there are still some more boxes to go through, but here is the start of the stuff from my personal collection now for sale on the web at.... http://www.btsrr.com/btsodd01.htm NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! OK, before anyone starts to panic and spread rumors, I am NOT leaving S scale! Two things happened recently that prompted this collection reduction. First, Di and I are still working on getting out of Florida up to the Blue Ridge area. So in preparation for the move in a couple of years, I started sorting through the personal train stuff to try to get somewhat organized. I was amazed at the amount of stuff that we have accumulated, and at the fact that most of it rarely sees the light of day. Most of the locos have been run just on a test track! I also discovered some things that I had forgot we owned, and wondered why we had got them in the first place. And I discovered that in some cases we owned multiples of the same thing! Memory? What memory? Second, while discussing the future layout plans with Gary Anderson, good friend and sidekick, it dawned on me that over the years my focus in narrow gauge has changed from the logging/D&RGW to the East Broad Top/logging. And because of this, the focus on the standard gauge has changed from mainline western roads to that little branchline railroad in Pennsylvania, the PRR. The impact of the PRR in the future layout will be minimal (two GP-9's, a GP-30, a set of F's, and maybe an FA) since just a small interchange is needed at Mount Union. I refuse to become a slobbering Pennsy freak! I will stay in control.... I will stay in control.... I will stay in control.... yea, right. So rather than just keeping some nifty models hidden away forever in boxes, we decided it was time to move them on with the hopes that they might actually get run! At least I think they will run.... ;-) Now you also know the subject of the next editorial in the S/Sn3 Modeling Guide; focus on your goals! Take care, and thanks, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3728	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Peening

There is another method for re-attaching AF sideframes. Place the sheet metal tab that goes into the sideframe on an anvil. Using a ball-peen hammer and a flat punch, pound on the tab. This widens it so that it is slightly wider than the slot that it came out of. Bend it just enough so that you can slide it into the slot. Then flatten it. This forces the edges of the tab into contact with the sides of the slot in the sideframe. You now have a fit that strongly resembles factory original without having ding marks that occur when simply using a center punch to peen the sheetmetal tab. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3729	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 6/25/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy

A few years Back, Robin and I took our children to Disney World right after the Dick Tracy movie was released. On one of the sets, they had the actual Dick Tracy cars. I asked one of the guides exactly what the prototypes were for each car. I was told that they really aren't any specific prototype, but, they were able to get around paying a licensing fee by taking parts from several different cars and making a non-prototype vehicle for the movies. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3730	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Clouds

Here in Minnesota, clouds (model RR clouds) are done using the guidlines of scenery guru Silas Kayle. We use the cardboard "mask" technique and the following colors: White for the puffy tops which are brightly lit Antique White for the lower part of these clouds Winter Gray and Primer Gray for clouds with more moisture Country Blue (a light blue with some gray) for blending Ken

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3731	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Schwan's tricks

The two Schwans trucks that I ordered, arrived yesterday, minutes after the real Schwan's truck was here. They say they are Dodge's and they do look different from the Ford in the ad.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3732	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Diecast Clouds

Hi Ya'll, Well, the clouds are not exactly diecast. I mentioned a cloud painting technique the other day and I have posted an example on my personal page. Check the links near the bottom of the rather plain page. Also on that page is a link to show what I believe to be a complete gallery of the 'official' diecast vehicles made with American Flyer markings. Most are trucks, but there is one airplane. If any of you take the time to visit and if you know of some diecast vehicles that are not included, let me know and I'll continue my quest. And now, back to work on my trains. Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3733	From: Mark Preman	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Re: Wayne Broadhead/Nothing to Buy

Wayne, Do you have everything Gilbert ever built? Just for fun, how about something nostalgic like the rare 3 piece mountain, or an exploding TNT car, or........ Check out http://www.americanflyertrains.com Mark B. Preman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3734	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Diecast Clouds - The Link

Once again - half a brain...Here is the link to the main page: http://home.att.net/~wpporter/ Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3735	From: borj	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Steam whistle by Gilbertfor the K325

Hi Guys, I'm new at S-gauge and I need some knowledge from the people that know. I have a steam Whistle Made by the A C Gilbert Co. for my K325 and I don't know how to wire it. I have a 4 wire ribbon available, coming from the unit itself, and the speaker is in tact in the tender. What wire goes where? Thank allot fella's Bill Sandrus Boise ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3736	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer prototypes

Please understand that I have surmised this match for myself based on owning several of the shells plus seeing the ex-National Road (which surely had sister cars in initial fleet) in use on RI here in the KC areain the 1970s. I definitely made at least one error in what I said. I do not have the 1931 car cyclopedia, but I do have a copy of the series Train Shed Cyclopedia, published by Newton K. Gregg in 1973, and on page 477 in Volume 8 of the series, there is a shot of B&O 5206, not a 5900-series, with a matching window arrangement. No plan number is given. The AF cars all appear to come from the same prototype series because of common roof curvatures, window shapes, etc., but it is still possible that Gilbert drew from more than one road for his ideas. I don't have the address handy, but there should be a B&O Historical Society that could help; also, there is a publisher named Bob Wayner, Wayner Publications, PO Box 871 Ansonia Station, New York, NY 10023. Bob is regarded, bluntly, as the world's foremost authority on passenger trains and rolling stock. Surely there are some B&O people around who could hewlp link this altogether, I cannot in good conscience consider this anything mroe concrete than personal observation and projection. sigma@... wrote: > Thanks for the additional info. > If your memory is accurate, and theprototype for Flyer 653/953 was the > Baltimore & Ohio car NATIONAL ROAD, I find that quite exciting. Do you > have the Pullman plan number? > How about the plan number for the B&O 5900-series coaches? > My reference resources are pretty limited, and I don't have any car > cyclopedias. > Among the books I do have, however, are those by Arthur Dubin, and you > have just given me new interest in a photo on page 101 of Some Classic > Trains, of the B&O car National View, which was a 3-compartment 2-drawing > room observation. Do you suppose this could have, been the prototype for > Flyer 654/954? > Perhaps I should explain that the primary objective of my research is to > find the prototypes for all Flyer passenger cars so I can progress to > plan numbers,then check to see whether Canadian National had any > cars built to those plans. But as a by-product I will be able to write a > magazine piece about Flyer prototypes. > Fortunately for me I live in western Canada, where the supply of junker > car shells and other material for Flyer-bashing has not yet dried up. > And for my purposes the reproduction shells available from American > Hi-Rail are just as useful. > Thanks again. > Joe Pereira > > > > > > email: sigma@... > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > > > Books, music, videos, gifts, e-cards, auctions-find them at AMAZON.COM. > > > Browse Earth's Biggest Selection! Enjoy everyday savings of up to 50%! > > > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/amazon1 ">Click Here</a> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > > > > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3737	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: GP Dummy kitbashing?

I had this odd thought while tinkering with my Santa Fe AM GP-18. What is a fellow to do if he would want a non powered dummy unit? Buy a powered unit and remove the motors? A bit much to get a multiengined train, I just wondered. Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3738	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl GP35

In a message dated 99-06-26 05:44:35 EDT, you write: << Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:47:04 -0400 From: " Raymond Abbott" <rmarail@...> Subject: Ertl Gp35 I have a pair of ertl gp35 ,s that i would like to detail and make usable power units out of them. has this been done by someone and can they give me some ideas and feedback, on how they converted them ? Ray Abbott nasg, rasg >> As far as detailing, a set of American Models detail parts (handrails and horns) a new paint job, decals and KD 802's does the trick. I also added a dynamic brake blister from a GP9, not exactly right, but close enough for my tastes. I made a few other modifications to make mine more resemble a GP38-2, but that's another story. The wheelsets were replaced with S Helper wheelsets from a PS-2. Again, not right (too small) but they fit and work. This gives me a battery operated, scale compatible unit. If you want to get fancier than this maybe you should just buy an American Models loco, as the cost of details, new trucks, motor, etc. begin to approach the price of a whole loco. People have seen mine at train shows and can't believe it is an Ertl "toy". Hope this helps. Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3739	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: S scale vehicles for cheap!

Hi All, I just got back from Target and they've got the Racing Champions "Street Wheels" series of cars on closeout for .30 each. THAT'S $0.30! The closeout includes the new cars like the 1980's Bronco, '69 Cougar, '55 Chevy Coupe, and so on. Change out the wheels with Railmaster's or Athearn's, remove the hood scoops, slap on some new paint, and you've got some great generic vehicles for a great price. Heck, a couple of them like the Ford Bronco in white don't need repainting at all. Go get'em while you can! -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3740	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/26/1999
Subject: DSL Shops online again

Hi All, I just wanted to let you know that Dave Lull's DSL Shops site is back online again (as of 6/16/99) and it now has some pictures of Dave's fantastic S scale home layout. Of coarse, the site still has all of those great S scale buildings catalogued. However I find Dave's layout to be extremely inspirational. It's amazing the track plan fits in a 12 x 13 room and still offer continuous running! Anyway, the URL for the web site is: http://www.dslshops.com/. It's a slightly slow loading site but it's well worth the wait. -- Keith THompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3741	From: Jeff English	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: 152-155 # rail

Chris Harding <NYC17819@...> wrote: > Don't get too concerned about the height of rail, the width is equally > important in appearance, but nobody seems to worry about that! I'll agree with that! And thanks, Chris, for sharing information about heavy rail. --------------------------------------------------------------- Jeff English Troy, New York Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling englij@... | R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D | Route of the Whippet ---------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3742	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Wheels for Cheap?

>The closeout includes the new cars like the 1980's Bronco, '69 Cougar, >'55 Chevy Coupe, and so on. Change out the wheels with Railmaster's or >Athearn's, I'm unfamiliar with Athearn wheels suitable for S vehicles. Would you proffer some detail? Also, would you give a nickel tour of what is available from Railmaster, and what it is suitable for? Thanks, Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3743	From: RobertE613@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: New Transformer Power

It's time to add some power and I'd like to buy "new" this time. (Already have 17B, 30B, and a bunch of small packs.) I'm considering the MTH Z4000 or the unit they call THE MAX (reviewed in 2/99 CTT). I'm running Gilbert and American Models equipment, heavy on accessories. Any thoughts on these two units? Thanks, Robert Ellis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3744	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: Steam whistle by Gilbertfor the K325

Bill, Gilbert wiring always followed the same basic principles, if you always remember those, you should be able to figure out any wiring problem. Black always goes to Base Post, Yellow always goes to Fixed 15V. On the whistle control, you will need to run the red wire to the variable 0-15V post, and the green wire to the non-base post clip on the track clip. (I'm doing this off the top of my head and may have the red and green wires reversed.) You will also need to run a seperate black wire from Base post to the Base post clip on the track. If the tube unit is humming but the whistle is not operating, this is not uncommon, as the contacts inside the tube more often than not get corroded and the unit fails to produce the sound. The train may also fail to run as you've now hooked up track power thru the button/tube as well. This all depends on what the contacts are like in the tube. It can be opened by carefully taking a dremel moto tool, cutting a series of small slots in the bottom lip about 1/4 inch apart all the way around. Then very gently prying these "tabs" back to allow you to take the vibrator out. Take an emery board and clean those contacts in there real good. Test the unit before you reassemble to make sure it works. You may need to gently adjust the contacts to get things working properly. After your sure it works, slip the vibrator with its insulators back into the tube all the way. Gently bend the "tabs" back down firmly. You can use the tube like that if you don't mind it looking a little ugly. I dress my repaired tubes up with a piece of large shrink wrap that fits a little snugly as you put it on. It needs to be about 1/2 inch long, and hang down past the bottom edge about 1/8 inch. Heat the shrink wrap, and it folds under nicely and snugs up real tight on the bottom of the tube for a very neat repair. Not sure where you might try to get the shrink wrap in that size in your area. I used to get mine in a surplus store in Orlando, FL in 1 foot lengths.... good for 12 repairs. Good luck.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3745	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: Wheels for Cheap?

Hi Ted, I've used the front wheel assemblies from Athearn semis for S scale passenger vehicle wheels. They scale out to approximately 15" wheels in S scale with tall 70 series profile tires. Athearn used to sell only the front wheels separately but unfortunately you have to buy them as a whole set with the rear wheels now as part no. 140-55012. Some dealers may still stock the individual front wheels, so check around. I think they came a dozen to each manilla envelope so you could do three cars. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle mhrreast@... wrote: > > From: mhrreast@... > > >The closeout includes the new cars like the 1980's Bronco, '69 Cougar, > >'55 Chevy Coupe, and so on. Change out the wheels with Railmaster's or > >Athearn's, > > I'm unfamiliar with Athearn wheels suitable for S vehicles. Would you > proffer some detail? Also, would you give a nickel tour of what is > available from Railmaster, and what it is suitable for? > Thanks, > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? > http://www.onelist.com > Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3746	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: PRR Keystone Decals

F. & F. Custom Trains, P.O. Box 704, Babylon, N.Y. 11702-0704, 1-800-230-3392 9-5 EDST, M-F offered decals for the LIRR, New Haven, and a few decals for other railroads. Some of the LI decals use the Pennsylvania keystone logo. The list that I have is dated July 1997. In it they talk about adding other railroads, so it is possible that they have added the Pennsylvania to their offerings. Roger Delthony Keith B. Thompson - Sun wrote: > From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun) > > Hi, > > Once again i am searching for decals. What I would like this time > is to find some PRR keystones. The ones with red background > and single gold trim. I need the ones with numbers in the > center instead of the entangled PRR letters. The best > would be a blank center a seperate numbers. > > Should i really just put myself out of my misery and > buy an Alps printer? Who said that scratchbuilding was > cheap? > > kbt > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Congratulations to "Make_A_Child_Smile," our latest ONElist of the Week. > http://www.onelist.com > How is ONElist changing YOUR life? Visit our homepage and let us know! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3747	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 284

Hey, Wayne: Why not collect the REAL A.C. Gilbert stuff, and let Lyin'L be danged! Get on this list, buy your tools, ask questions, ask how to repair the old, GOOD STUFF, and run it. Then FERGIT Lyin'L!!!! I am convinced that the Gilbert engines will run for many more years than the Lionel (can motor) engines will, anyway! Steve Pendleton bestofbreed@... ---------- > From: S-Trains@onelist.com > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 284 > Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 5:44 AM > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? > http://www.onelist.com > Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 14 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. Clouds > From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > 2. Lionel Products, any out there? > From: Wayne Broadhead <wayne@...> > 3. READING CAMELBACKS > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > 4. Re: Lionel Products, any out there? > From: RBubeck327@... > 5. Odds and ends > From: Paul Yorke <paulyork@...> > 6. Re: Clouds > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > 7. AF Wants > From: JTMGoBlue@... > 8. 152-155 # rail > From: NYC17819@... > 9. Re: Truck Repair > From: NYC17819@... > 10. Flyer prototypes > From: sigma@... > 11. Ertl Gp35 > From: " Raymond Abbott" <rmarail@...> > 12. Rare S Stuff for Sale > From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> > 13. Peening > From: mhrreast@... > 14. Re: Ertl Frevy > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:52:54 -0600 (MDT) > From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > Subject: Clouds > > Has anyone found a great way to paint clouds on a backdrop wall. I have > the wall painted blue, which was the easy part. Do I use a sponge or a > brush? Any ideas would be appreciated? By the way, what about the > colors used? > > Mike Leahy > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:16:28 -0600 > From: Wayne Broadhead <wayne@...> > Subject: Lionel Products, any out there? > > Hi All, > > Does anyone know if Lionel (Lyin'L) has announced any new products for > 1999 yet? When the only "real" maker of American Flyer doesn't make > anything, it sure makes it hard for this collector to be interested in > collecting anymore. There isn't anything to look forward too!!!! > > Wayne Broadhead > American Flyer Collector > (and loosing interest fast) > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:12:10 -0400 > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > Subject: READING CAMELBACKS > > The most used Reading Camelbacks were 10 wheelers, 2-6-0 so a Pacific > chassis would be best. Balston makes a Camelback body for those not up > to bashing but a friend couldn't quite get Balstons to fit a Pacific > chassis. > > Staying on NASG track, Glenn > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:34:41 EDT > From: RBubeck327@... > Subject: Re: Lionel Products, any out there? > > > In a message dated 6/25/99 9:13:27 AM, wayne@... writes: > > << When the only "real" maker of American Flyer doesn't make > anything, it sure makes it hard for this collector to be interested in > collecting anymore. There isn't anything to look forward too!!!! >> > > Surely, Wayne, you do not yet own one of everything Gilbert made do you? :) > > RB > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:52:05 PDT > From: Paul Yorke <paulyork@...> > Subject: Odds and ends > > Sir Top'em Hat's (aka Dick Tracy) > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/details/autos.htm > > Stan Stokrocki > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/nasg_con/nasg_986.htm > > Mel Nielsen's Ballston Locomotive > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/info/mel.htm > > I have also added more Flyer Photos to the numbers list. > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/numbers/af_nums1.html > If you have some pictures that will help fill out the list let me know. I am > going to borrow a digital camera and shoot my stuff. Mostly common stuff. > > > Paul Yorke American Flyer operator/Stereo Photographer > S-Trains Mailing / http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains > (Primary Email Yorke@... - Backup paulyork@...) > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:59:15 -0400 > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > Subject: Re: Clouds > > A method that has worked well for me is to use cardboard templates and spray > white paint. Cut the top curves of clouds in a couple of pieces of shirt > cardboard (or any other cardboard about the size of the side of a cereal > box). Only the top curves are required. I usually make three 'depths' of > these cutouts: deep for nearby high clouds, nearly flat for distant ones and > in-between for......in-between. Then hold the template 1 to 3 inches from > the wall and lightly spray along the curved edge. Some paint will go onto > the cardboard and be lost (until it drips off onto your clothes) the rest > will go on the wall. The distance from the wall determines whether the top > edges of the clouds are sharp as in fast rising thunderheads or fuzzy as in > lazy clouds suitable for inspiration. Spray a little...move the template and > maybe rotate it a few degrees then spray some more. Distant clouds are lower > down the wall than the nearby ones are. > > If you want, I'll try for a picture or two to post somewhere or other. > > Good Luck, > Bill Porter > > -----Original Message----- > From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> > Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 8:53 AM > Subject: [S-Trains] Clouds > > > >From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > > > >Has anyone found a great way to paint clouds on a backdrop wall. I have > >the wall painted blue, which was the easy part. Do I use a sponge or a > >brush? Any ideas would be appreciated? By the way, what about the > >colors used? > > > >Mike Leahy > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:48:51 EDT > From: JTMGoBlue@... > Subject: AF Wants > > Hi, > > Anyone out there have (or know someone who would) three items they would sell: > > AF HighTrestle Set (Orange -12 4.5" girders) > UP Observation Car > Greenberg Volume II > > Thanks for your help! > > Terry MacEwen (jtmgoblue@...) > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:12:59 EDT > From: NYC17819@... > Subject: 152-155 # rail > > Although PC and Amtrak replaced most of the 152 and 155# rail in the > northeast corridor with 140# welded rail, there are still a few places with > the heavier rail left. > > Some railroad other than the PRR used 152 and 155 # rail, including the > Bessemer and Lake Erie. In the early 70's, the B&LE generally used 140# > curvemaster rail on curves, and welded 152 or 155# on tangents. The > metallurgy of the 152 and 155 # rail sections wasn't as good as the more > modern 140#, and the 140# was found to hold up better on curves. > > Don't get too concerned about the height of rail, the width is equally > important in appearance, but nobody seems to worry about that! > > Chris Harding > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:12:58 EDT > From: NYC17819@... > Subject: Re: Truck Repair > > Steve Pendleton asked. > "Has anyone found, or designed, a crimping tool to reattach loose or > separated sintered iron truck sideframes (on cars) back to the truck frame?" > > Occasionally I've had good luck with expanding the sheet metal using the > centerpunch method, but it doesn't seem to work all of the time. However, > I've had excellent success with drilling the bolster and side frame and then > using a self-tapping 2-56 screw to hold them together. > > If you don't mind bending the bolster before drilling, you don't have to > remove the truck from the car. > > If the 2-56 screw is painted black, it's hardly visible even if you're > looking for it. > > One trick is to put the sideframe and bolster together whilst drilling them > so the holes line up with each other correctly. Although it isn't wrong to > drill a larger hole in the bolster to clear the threads of the screw, it > isn't necessary either as the bolster should be tight against the sideframe > when driving the screw in. > > I use pan-head 2-56 self tapping screws 1/4" long. They never break! > > Chris Harding > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:21:25 -0600 (MDT) > From: sigma@... > Subject: Flyer prototypes > > Received only one response to my original query, so I'll try again. > Does anyone have any information on the prototypes for Flyer cars > 952 (Pike's Peak) and 954 (Grand Canyon)? > They must have been Pullman cars, but which ones? > Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:47:04 -0400 > From: " Raymond Abbott" <rmarail@...> > Subject: Ertl Gp35 > > I have a pair of ertl gp35 ,s that i would like to detail and make > usable power units out of them. has this been done by someone and > can they give me some ideas and feedback, > on how they converted them ? Ray Abbott nasg, rasg > > > > ________________________________________________________ > NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? > Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 19:25:49 -0400 > From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> > Subject: Rare S Stuff for Sale > > Howdy Friends > > Well, we still have a few photos to post, and there are still some more > boxes to go through, but here is the start of the stuff from my personal > collection now for sale on the web at.... > > http://www.btsrr.com/btsodd01.htm > > > NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! > > OK, before anyone starts to panic and spread rumors, I am NOT leaving S > scale! Two things happened recently that prompted this collection > reduction. > First, Di and I are still working on getting out of Florida up to the > Blue Ridge area. So in preparation for the move in a couple of years, I > started sorting through the personal train stuff to try to get somewhat > organized. I was amazed at the amount of stuff that we have accumulated, > and at the fact that most of it rarely sees the light of day. Most of > the locos have been run just on a test track! I also discovered some > things that I had forgot we owned, and wondered why we had got them in > the first place. And I discovered that in some cases we owned multiples > of the same thing! Memory? What memory? > Second, while discussing the future layout plans with Gary Anderson, > good friend and sidekick, it dawned on me that over the years my focus > in narrow gauge has changed from the logging/D&RGW to the East Broad > Top/logging. And because of this, the focus on the standard gauge has > changed from mainline western roads to that little branchline railroad > in Pennsylvania, the PRR. The impact of the PRR in the future layout > will be minimal (two GP-9's, a GP-30, a set of F's, and maybe an FA) > since just a small interchange is needed at Mount Union. I refuse to > become a slobbering Pennsy freak! I will stay in control.... I will stay > in control.... I will stay in control.... yea, right. > So rather than just keeping some nifty models hidden away forever in > boxes, we decided it was time to move them on with the hopes that they > might actually get run! At least I think they will run.... ;-) > > Now you also know the subject of the next editorial in the S/Sn3 > Modeling Guide; focus on your goals! > > Take care, and thanks, > Bill > -- > =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ > Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer > Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 > B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com > S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com > Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 13 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:08:38 EDT > From: mhrreast@... > Subject: Peening > > > There is another method for re-attaching AF sideframes. > > Place the sheet metal tab that goes into the sideframe on > an anvil. Using a ball-peen hammer and a flat punch, pound on > the tab. This widens it so that it is slightly wider than the slot > that it came out of. Bend it just enough so that you can slide > it into the slot. Then flatten it. This forces the edges of the > tab into contact with the sides of the slot in the sideframe. > You now have a fit that strongly resembles factory original > without having ding marks that occur when simply using > a center punch to peen the sheetmetal tab. > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html > > ________________________________________________________________ > Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- > Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! > Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:59:07 -0400 > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy > > A few years Back, Robin and I took our children to Disney World right > after the Dick Tracy movie was released. On one of the sets, they had > the actual Dick Tracy cars. I asked one of the guides exactly what the > prototypes were for each car. I was told that they really aren't any > specific prototype, but, they were able to get around paying a licensing > fee by taking parts from several different cars and making a > non-prototype vehicle for the movies. > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3748	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 284

Thank you Chris. Your suggestion is, by far, the most helpful one of all! Steve Pendleton ---------- > From: S-Trains@onelist.com > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 284 > Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 5:44 AM > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? > http://www.onelist.com > Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 14 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. Clouds > From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > 2. Lionel Products, any out there? > From: Wayne Broadhead <wayne@...> > 3. READING CAMELBACKS > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > 4. Re: Lionel Products, any out there? > From: RBubeck327@... > 5. Odds and ends > From: Paul Yorke <paulyork@...> > 6. Re: Clouds > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > 7. AF Wants > From: JTMGoBlue@... > 8. 152-155 # rail > From: NYC17819@... > 9. Re: Truck Repair > From: NYC17819@... > 10. Flyer prototypes > From: sigma@... > 11. Ertl Gp35 > From: " Raymond Abbott" <rmarail@...> > 12. Rare S Stuff for Sale > From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> > 13. Peening > From: mhrreast@... > 14. Re: Ertl Frevy > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:52:54 -0600 (MDT) > From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > Subject: Clouds > > Has anyone found a great way to paint clouds on a backdrop wall. I have > the wall painted blue, which was the easy part. Do I use a sponge or a > brush? Any ideas would be appreciated? By the way, what about the > colors used? > > Mike Leahy > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:16:28 -0600 > From: Wayne Broadhead <wayne@...> > Subject: Lionel Products, any out there? > > Hi All, > > Does anyone know if Lionel (Lyin'L) has announced any new products for > 1999 yet? When the only "real" maker of American Flyer doesn't make > anything, it sure makes it hard for this collector to be interested in > collecting anymore. There isn't anything to look forward too!!!! > > Wayne Broadhead > American Flyer Collector > (and loosing interest fast) > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:12:10 -0400 > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > Subject: READING CAMELBACKS > > The most used Reading Camelbacks were 10 wheelers, 2-6-0 so a Pacific > chassis would be best. Balston makes a Camelback body for those not up > to bashing but a friend couldn't quite get Balstons to fit a Pacific > chassis. > > Staying on NASG track, Glenn > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:34:41 EDT > From: RBubeck327@... > Subject: Re: Lionel Products, any out there? > > > In a message dated 6/25/99 9:13:27 AM, wayne@... writes: > > << When the only "real" maker of American Flyer doesn't make > anything, it sure makes it hard for this collector to be interested in > collecting anymore. There isn't anything to look forward too!!!! >> > > Surely, Wayne, you do not yet own one of everything Gilbert made do you? :) > > RB > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:52:05 PDT > From: Paul Yorke <paulyork@...> > Subject: Odds and ends > > Sir Top'em Hat's (aka Dick Tracy) > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/details/autos.htm > > Stan Stokrocki > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/nasg_con/nasg_986.htm > > Mel Nielsen's Ballston Locomotive > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/info/mel.htm > > I have also added more Flyer Photos to the numbers list. > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/numbers/af_nums1.html > If you have some pictures that will help fill out the list let me know. I am > going to borrow a digital camera and shoot my stuff. Mostly common stuff. > > > Paul Yorke American Flyer operator/Stereo Photographer > S-Trains Mailing / http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains > (Primary Email Yorke@... - Backup paulyork@...) > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:59:15 -0400 > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > Subject: Re: Clouds > > A method that has worked well for me is to use cardboard templates and spray > white paint. Cut the top curves of clouds in a couple of pieces of shirt > cardboard (or any other cardboard about the size of the side of a cereal > box). Only the top curves are required. I usually make three 'depths' of > these cutouts: deep for nearby high clouds, nearly flat for distant ones and > in-between for......in-between. Then hold the template 1 to 3 inches from > the wall and lightly spray along the curved edge. Some paint will go onto > the cardboard and be lost (until it drips off onto your clothes) the rest > will go on the wall. The distance from the wall determines whether the top > edges of the clouds are sharp as in fast rising thunderheads or fuzzy as in > lazy clouds suitable for inspiration. Spray a little...move the template and > maybe rotate it a few degrees then spray some more. Distant clouds are lower > down the wall than the nearby ones are. > > If you want, I'll try for a picture or two to post somewhere or other. > > Good Luck, > Bill Porter > > -----Original Message----- > From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> > Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 8:53 AM > Subject: [S-Trains] Clouds > > > >From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > > > >Has anyone found a great way to paint clouds on a backdrop wall. I have > >the wall painted blue, which was the easy part. Do I use a sponge or a > >brush? Any ideas would be appreciated? By the way, what about the > >colors used? > > > >Mike Leahy > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:48:51 EDT > From: JTMGoBlue@... > Subject: AF Wants > > Hi, > > Anyone out there have (or know someone who would) three items they would sell: > > AF HighTrestle Set (Orange -12 4.5" girders) > UP Observation Car > Greenberg Volume II > > Thanks for your help! > > Terry MacEwen (jtmgoblue@...) > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:12:59 EDT > From: NYC17819@... > Subject: 152-155 # rail > > Although PC and Amtrak replaced most of the 152 and 155# rail in the > northeast corridor with 140# welded rail, there are still a few places with > the heavier rail left. > > Some railroad other than the PRR used 152 and 155 # rail, including the > Bessemer and Lake Erie. In the early 70's, the B&LE generally used 140# > curvemaster rail on curves, and welded 152 or 155# on tangents. The > metallurgy of the 152 and 155 # rail sections wasn't as good as the more > modern 140#, and the 140# was found to hold up better on curves. > > Don't get too concerned about the height of rail, the width is equally > important in appearance, but nobody seems to worry about that! > > Chris Harding > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:12:58 EDT > From: NYC17819@... > Subject: Re: Truck Repair > > Steve Pendleton asked. > "Has anyone found, or designed, a crimping tool to reattach loose or > separated sintered iron truck sideframes (on cars) back to the truck frame?" > > Occasionally I've had good luck with expanding the sheet metal using the > centerpunch method, but it doesn't seem to work all of the time. However, > I've had excellent success with drilling the bolster and side frame and then > using a self-tapping 2-56 screw to hold them together. > > If you don't mind bending the bolster before drilling, you don't have to > remove the truck from the car. > > If the 2-56 screw is painted black, it's hardly visible even if you're > looking for it. > > One trick is to put the sideframe and bolster together whilst drilling them > so the holes line up with each other correctly. Although it isn't wrong to > drill a larger hole in the bolster to clear the threads of the screw, it > isn't necessary either as the bolster should be tight against the sideframe > when driving the screw in. > > I use pan-head 2-56 self tapping screws 1/4" long. They never break! > > Chris Harding > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:21:25 -0600 (MDT) > From: sigma@... > Subject: Flyer prototypes > > Received only one response to my original query, so I'll try again. > Does anyone have any information on the prototypes for Flyer cars > 952 (Pike's Peak) and 954 (Grand Canyon)? > They must have been Pullman cars, but which ones? > Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:47:04 -0400 > From: " Raymond Abbott" <rmarail@...> > Subject: Ertl Gp35 > > I have a pair of ertl gp35 ,s that i would like to detail and make > usable power units out of them. has this been done by someone and > can they give me some ideas and feedback, > on how they converted them ? Ray Abbott nasg, rasg > > > > ________________________________________________________ > NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? > Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 19:25:49 -0400 > From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> > Subject: Rare S Stuff for Sale > > Howdy Friends > > Well, we still have a few photos to post, and there are still some more > boxes to go through, but here is the start of the stuff from my personal > collection now for sale on the web at.... > > http://www.btsrr.com/btsodd01.htm > > > NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! > > OK, before anyone starts to panic and spread rumors, I am NOT leaving S > scale! Two things happened recently that prompted this collection > reduction. > First, Di and I are still working on getting out of Florida up to the > Blue Ridge area. So in preparation for the move in a couple of years, I > started sorting through the personal train stuff to try to get somewhat > organized. I was amazed at the amount of stuff that we have accumulated, > and at the fact that most of it rarely sees the light of day. Most of > the locos have been run just on a test track! I also discovered some > things that I had forgot we owned, and wondered why we had got them in > the first place. And I discovered that in some cases we owned multiples > of the same thing! Memory? What memory? > Second, while discussing the future layout plans with Gary Anderson, > good friend and sidekick, it dawned on me that over the years my focus > in narrow gauge has changed from the logging/D&RGW to the East Broad > Top/logging. And because of this, the focus on the standard gauge has > changed from mainline western roads to that little branchline railroad > in Pennsylvania, the PRR. The impact of the PRR in the future layout > will be minimal (two GP-9's, a GP-30, a set of F's, and maybe an FA) > since just a small interchange is needed at Mount Union. I refuse to > become a slobbering Pennsy freak! I will stay in control.... I will stay > in control.... I will stay in control.... yea, right. > So rather than just keeping some nifty models hidden away forever in > boxes, we decided it was time to move them on with the hopes that they > might actually get run! At least I think they will run.... ;-) > > Now you also know the subject of the next editorial in the S/Sn3 > Modeling Guide; focus on your goals! > > Take care, and thanks, > Bill > -- > =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ > Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer > Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 > B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com > S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com > Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 13 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:08:38 EDT > From: mhrreast@... > Subject: Peening > > > There is another method for re-attaching AF sideframes. > > Place the sheet metal tab that goes into the sideframe on > an anvil. Using a ball-peen hammer and a flat punch, pound on > the tab. This widens it so that it is slightly wider than the slot > that it came out of. Bend it just enough so that you can slide > it into the slot. Then flatten it. This forces the edges of the > tab into contact with the sides of the slot in the sideframe. > You now have a fit that strongly resembles factory original > without having ding marks that occur when simply using > a center punch to peen the sheetmetal tab. > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html > > ________________________________________________________________ > Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- > Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! > Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:59:07 -0400 > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy > > A few years Back, Robin and I took our children to Disney World right > after the Dick Tracy movie was released. On one of the sets, they had > the actual Dick Tracy cars. I asked one of the guides exactly what the > prototypes were for each car. I was told that they really aren't any > specific prototype, but, they were able to get around paying a licensing > fee by taking parts from several different cars and making a > non-prototype vehicle for the movies. > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3749	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 284

Hello, Ted, Thanks for your input on sideframes! Steve Pendleton bestofbreed@... ---------- > From: S-Trains@onelist.com > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 284 > Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 5:44 AM > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? > http://www.onelist.com > Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 14 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. Clouds > From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > 2. Lionel Products, any out there? > From: Wayne Broadhead <wayne@...> > 3. READING CAMELBACKS > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > 4. Re: Lionel Products, any out there? > From: RBubeck327@... > 5. Odds and ends > From: Paul Yorke <paulyork@...> > 6. Re: Clouds > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > 7. AF Wants > From: JTMGoBlue@... > 8. 152-155 # rail > From: NYC17819@... > 9. Re: Truck Repair > From: NYC17819@... > 10. Flyer prototypes > From: sigma@... > 11. Ertl Gp35 > From: " Raymond Abbott" <rmarail@...> > 12. Rare S Stuff for Sale > From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> > 13. Peening > From: mhrreast@... > 14. Re: Ertl Frevy > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:52:54 -0600 (MDT) > From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > Subject: Clouds > > Has anyone found a great way to paint clouds on a backdrop wall. I have > the wall painted blue, which was the easy part. Do I use a sponge or a > brush? Any ideas would be appreciated? By the way, what about the > colors used? > > Mike Leahy > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 07:16:28 -0600 > From: Wayne Broadhead <wayne@...> > Subject: Lionel Products, any out there? > > Hi All, > > Does anyone know if Lionel (Lyin'L) has announced any new products for > 1999 yet? When the only "real" maker of American Flyer doesn't make > anything, it sure makes it hard for this collector to be interested in > collecting anymore. There isn't anything to look forward too!!!! > > Wayne Broadhead > American Flyer Collector > (and loosing interest fast) > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:12:10 -0400 > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > Subject: READING CAMELBACKS > > The most used Reading Camelbacks were 10 wheelers, 2-6-0 so a Pacific > chassis would be best. Balston makes a Camelback body for those not up > to bashing but a friend couldn't quite get Balstons to fit a Pacific > chassis. > > Staying on NASG track, Glenn > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:34:41 EDT > From: RBubeck327@... > Subject: Re: Lionel Products, any out there? > > > In a message dated 6/25/99 9:13:27 AM, wayne@... writes: > > << When the only "real" maker of American Flyer doesn't make > anything, it sure makes it hard for this collector to be interested in > collecting anymore. There isn't anything to look forward too!!!! >> > > Surely, Wayne, you do not yet own one of everything Gilbert made do you? :) > > RB > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 06:52:05 PDT > From: Paul Yorke <paulyork@...> > Subject: Odds and ends > > Sir Top'em Hat's (aka Dick Tracy) > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/details/autos.htm > > Stan Stokrocki > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/nasg_con/nasg_986.htm > > Mel Nielsen's Ballston Locomotive > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/info/mel.htm > > I have also added more Flyer Photos to the numbers list. > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/numbers/af_nums1.html > If you have some pictures that will help fill out the list let me know. I am > going to borrow a digital camera and shoot my stuff. Mostly common stuff. > > > Paul Yorke American Flyer operator/Stereo Photographer > S-Trains Mailing / http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains > (Primary Email Yorke@... - Backup paulyork@...) > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 09:59:15 -0400 > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > Subject: Re: Clouds > > A method that has worked well for me is to use cardboard templates and spray > white paint. Cut the top curves of clouds in a couple of pieces of shirt > cardboard (or any other cardboard about the size of the side of a cereal > box). Only the top curves are required. I usually make three 'depths' of > these cutouts: deep for nearby high clouds, nearly flat for distant ones and > in-between for......in-between. Then hold the template 1 to 3 inches from > the wall and lightly spray along the curved edge. Some paint will go onto > the cardboard and be lost (until it drips off onto your clothes) the rest > will go on the wall. The distance from the wall determines whether the top > edges of the clouds are sharp as in fast rising thunderheads or fuzzy as in > lazy clouds suitable for inspiration. Spray a little...move the template and > maybe rotate it a few degrees then spray some more. Distant clouds are lower > down the wall than the nearby ones are. > > If you want, I'll try for a picture or two to post somewhere or other. > > Good Luck, > Bill Porter > > -----Original Message----- > From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> > Date: Friday, June 25, 1999 8:53 AM > Subject: [S-Trains] Clouds > > > >From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > > > >Has anyone found a great way to paint clouds on a backdrop wall. I have > >the wall painted blue, which was the easy part. Do I use a sponge or a > >brush? Any ideas would be appreciated? By the way, what about the > >colors used? > > > >Mike Leahy > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:48:51 EDT > From: JTMGoBlue@... > Subject: AF Wants > > Hi, > > Anyone out there have (or know someone who would) three items they would sell: > > AF HighTrestle Set (Orange -12 4.5" girders) > UP Observation Car > Greenberg Volume II > > Thanks for your help! > > Terry MacEwen (jtmgoblue@...) > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:12:59 EDT > From: NYC17819@... > Subject: 152-155 # rail > > Although PC and Amtrak replaced most of the 152 and 155# rail in the > northeast corridor with 140# welded rail, there are still a few places with > the heavier rail left. > > Some railroad other than the PRR used 152 and 155 # rail, including the > Bessemer and Lake Erie. In the early 70's, the B&LE generally used 140# > curvemaster rail on curves, and welded 152 or 155# on tangents. The > metallurgy of the 152 and 155 # rail sections wasn't as good as the more > modern 140#, and the 140# was found to hold up better on curves. > > Don't get too concerned about the height of rail, the width is equally > important in appearance, but nobody seems to worry about that! > > Chris Harding > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 9 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 13:12:58 EDT > From: NYC17819@... > Subject: Re: Truck Repair > > Steve Pendleton asked. > "Has anyone found, or designed, a crimping tool to reattach loose or > separated sintered iron truck sideframes (on cars) back to the truck frame?" > > Occasionally I've had good luck with expanding the sheet metal using the > centerpunch method, but it doesn't seem to work all of the time. However, > I've had excellent success with drilling the bolster and side frame and then > using a self-tapping 2-56 screw to hold them together. > > If you don't mind bending the bolster before drilling, you don't have to > remove the truck from the car. > > If the 2-56 screw is painted black, it's hardly visible even if you're > looking for it. > > One trick is to put the sideframe and bolster together whilst drilling them > so the holes line up with each other correctly. Although it isn't wrong to > drill a larger hole in the bolster to clear the threads of the screw, it > isn't necessary either as the bolster should be tight against the sideframe > when driving the screw in. > > I use pan-head 2-56 self tapping screws 1/4" long. They never break! > > Chris Harding > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 11:21:25 -0600 (MDT) > From: sigma@... > Subject: Flyer prototypes > > Received only one response to my original query, so I'll try again. > Does anyone have any information on the prototypes for Flyer cars > 952 (Pike's Peak) and 954 (Grand Canyon)? > They must have been Pullman cars, but which ones? > Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 11 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 16:47:04 -0400 > From: " Raymond Abbott" <rmarail@...> > Subject: Ertl Gp35 > > I have a pair of ertl gp35 ,s that i would like to detail and make > usable power units out of them. has this been done by someone and > can they give me some ideas and feedback, > on how they converted them ? Ray Abbott nasg, rasg > > > > ________________________________________________________ > NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? > Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at > http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 19:25:49 -0400 > From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> > Subject: Rare S Stuff for Sale > > Howdy Friends > > Well, we still have a few photos to post, and there are still some more > boxes to go through, but here is the start of the stuff from my personal > collection now for sale on the web at.... > > http://www.btsrr.com/btsodd01.htm > > > NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! NOTICE!!!!!! > > OK, before anyone starts to panic and spread rumors, I am NOT leaving S > scale! Two things happened recently that prompted this collection > reduction. > First, Di and I are still working on getting out of Florida up to the > Blue Ridge area. So in preparation for the move in a couple of years, I > started sorting through the personal train stuff to try to get somewhat > organized. I was amazed at the amount of stuff that we have accumulated, > and at the fact that most of it rarely sees the light of day. Most of > the locos have been run just on a test track! I also discovered some > things that I had forgot we owned, and wondered why we had got them in > the first place. And I discovered that in some cases we owned multiples > of the same thing! Memory? What memory? > Second, while discussing the future layout plans with Gary Anderson, > good friend and sidekick, it dawned on me that over the years my focus > in narrow gauge has changed from the logging/D&RGW to the East Broad > Top/logging. And because of this, the focus on the standard gauge has > changed from mainline western roads to that little branchline railroad > in Pennsylvania, the PRR. The impact of the PRR in the future layout > will be minimal (two GP-9's, a GP-30, a set of F's, and maybe an FA) > since just a small interchange is needed at Mount Union. I refuse to > become a slobbering Pennsy freak! I will stay in control.... I will stay > in control.... I will stay in control.... yea, right. > So rather than just keeping some nifty models hidden away forever in > boxes, we decided it was time to move them on with the hopes that they > might actually get run! At least I think they will run.... ;-) > > Now you also know the subject of the next editorial in the S/Sn3 > Modeling Guide; focus on your goals! > > Take care, and thanks, > Bill > -- > =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ > Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer > Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 > B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com > S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com > Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 13 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:08:38 EDT > From: mhrreast@... > Subject: Peening > > > There is another method for re-attaching AF sideframes. > > Place the sheet metal tab that goes into the sideframe on > an anvil. Using a ball-peen hammer and a flat punch, pound on > the tab. This widens it so that it is slightly wider than the slot > that it came out of. Bend it just enough so that you can slide > it into the slot. Then flatten it. This forces the edges of the > tab into contact with the sides of the slot in the sideframe. > You now have a fit that strongly resembles factory original > without having ding marks that occur when simply using > a center punch to peen the sheetmetal tab. > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html > > ________________________________________________________________ > Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- > Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! > Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh. > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 14 > Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:59:07 -0400 > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > Subject: Re: Ertl Frevy > > A few years Back, Robin and I took our children to Disney World right > after the Dick Tracy movie was released. On one of the sets, they had > the actual Dick Tracy cars. I asked one of the guides exactly what the > prototypes were for each car. I was told that they really aren't any > specific prototype, but, they were able to get around paying a licensing > fee by taking parts from several different cars and making a > non-prototype vehicle for the movies. > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3750	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: Steam whistle by Gilbertfor the K325

Just to confirm now that I am at home, and was able to reference my manual. The Red does indeed go to 0-15V variable, and the Green to the Non-Base post track clip terminal as I indicated in my previous writing. Not bad for an off the top of my head wiring quote, seems the old memory bank is still in working order...(S). Good luck... Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3751	From: whutton	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: operating boxcar

I recently purchased a NYC operating boxcar 25081 (pikemaster) and several haybales. What kind of track trip do I need for operation of this car. I have the luxury of operating this car on either pikemaster panels or on the standard American Flyer S gauge track. Any suggestions or input as always would be appreciate. W.W. Hutton

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3752	From: Dennis Back	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: operating boxcar

The hay unloader uses a mechanical track trip. Turn a lever (by hand) and it throws out a bale each time the train passes. I got mine from Doug Peck (PortLines@...). Doug told me the Pike Master trips are just about impossible to find...so I bought a repro standard S trip. He also has repro haybales. Dennis Miami _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3753	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: 05 PDT) - American Flyer T.N.T EXPLODING Box Car (http://cgi.ebay .

Someone recently mentioned (I think it was Mark Preman) that the Gilber AF exploding car was rare in a posting here. I had never seen one. Later that day I found someone selling one in mint condition on EBay. Here is the URL to that auction in case anyone is interested in buying it: <<05 PDT) - American Flyer T.N.T EXPLODING Box Car.url>> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=122093014 I guess it is rare! The current bid is $355! --jon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3754	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: 05 PDT) - American Flyer T.N.T EXPLODING B

At $355 that car in MINT is still below value, but that does not make it rare. Its a hard to find car, especially complete, but not rare, as you can find them at many larger shows without too much difficulty, you just have to be willing to spend the bucks to buy it for yourself. That car in EX is about that value by todays guides - or +, but so are a lot of other 5 digit Gilbert cars. A truly rare car would be a white PAINTED 807, or a 630 with American Flyer only on it, or maybe an Orange 625 Shell tanker in EX condition. Another car that I would consider very scarce, would be a black LNE in EX. I've seen a very few, but they are warped and usually missing steps. Anyone think of any others they have only seen once or have never seen??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3755	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/27/1999
Subject: Re: operating boxcar

Years ago I made a sheet metal track trip to use with a tiejector car on standard flyer track, because I don't operate on pikemaster. Trick is to fabricate one that you can remove when not in use. In retrospect the easiest way would be to make a trip that you can just pick up when not in use. The trip operating when no containers are in the car is not a problem. You have to experiment to get the height and location just right. Chuck Smith NASG, RASG, TCA, TTCS, Chemung Valley Lines -----Original Message----- From: whutton <whutton@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Sunday, June 27, 1999 5:34 PM Subject: [S-Trains] operating boxcar >From: whutton <whutton@...> > >I recently purchased a NYC operating boxcar 25081 (pikemaster) and several >haybales. What kind of track trip do I need for operation of this car. I >have the luxury of operating this car on either pikemaster panels or on the >standard American Flyer S gauge track. Any suggestions or input as always >would be appreciate. > >W.W. Hutton > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? >http://www.onelist.com >Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3756	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel Products, any out there?

...thank you for your reply. The reason i made the post is because it has been quite exciting for me to look forward to the new Fall Releases for the last several years. There was a time when the amount of overtime i worked was because I was so excited about what Lionel was making and i was busily saving money for it. Now they are not making anything my interest in collecting has really been failing. Yes there is original Gilbert to collect, but hobby shops around here are scarce to none, and traveling ot York is an imposibility for me, buying off of someones list is a shot in the dark. Of course the rediculous prices of $400-700 for rare boxcars is out of the question. Lionel really started getting their "act together" in the early ninties with PA sets that had SUPERIOR paint jobs and good running engines. They were really exceptional, and i was looking forward to just a few more releases such as: the New Haven PA's, Comet set, red stripe cars for the Santa Fe, Rocket Set, etc. etc. , all these would have been wonderful additions to their already beautiful sets. Wayne RBubeck327@... wrote: > Wayne, > > Bravo, if you have pretty near everything. I have a fair amount of Gilbert > trains in fine shape, too, but what Lionel does or does not do is not > bothering me very much. I am still deriving pleasure from the challenge of > keeping the ALL of the vintage stuff running well and from the 'thrill of the > chase' in hunting down that piece I do not have but wish to have. Buying > something new out of a train store is easy,......maybe too easy. > > I do wish, like you, that someone would do significant things with the AF > line, but more of the 'same-old-same-old' is pretty boring. Many of the > reissues are oddly much less desirable than the originals because of how they > are executed (e.g., the BAR and Rath reeefers, the orange Shell tank, etc.) > and overpriced. Some AF starter sets made up of trains tough enough to give > to a seven year old are badly needed if the S gauge hobby is going to be > healthy. > > As a collecting interest and challenge, I am currently trying to put together > a decent collection of prewar Gilbert AF. Obtaining a really nice sample of > each die-cast prewar piece is actually rather tough, as I guess you probably > know. > > Have fun! > > RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3757	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: 770 platform loader, etc

Hi gang, I finally put out $12.95 to purchase a new man for my 770 platform (actually both of them). He seems to have a great arm but won't push the repro cubes far enough to reach the boxcar. The only thing that reaches the car is an orinal milk canister on a square base. I've cleaned it carefully. Is there a secret to getting this done. It was I who picked up the Thomas the Tank delivery truck at Toys R Us. I think it looks like a late 50s Metro delivery van. Also, keep your eyes out for the Matchbox Stars series "Lavern and Shirley" sedan delivery. It even has splattered mud on the white wheelwells. The Hotwheels milk delivery is cool too. It took me an eternity to strip the graphics off, but after painting the hood, fenders, and a few stripes, it makes a great Gilbert milk delivery truck. The cow was hard to recreate! Jacques in Yakima, Washington (Home of the Cowtown Central Railroad)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3758	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Franklin Choo-Choo

Can anybody tell me whether the Franklin engine is supposed to make a definite choo-choo sound like the other steam engines that have choo-choo? I have one that just makes a grinding or growling sound, and another Franklin I had for a while was exactly the same way. Is it worth opening it up to fix or do they just sound like that? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3759	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: [Fwd: FW: The New Parking Lot !!!!!]

Thought some people might be interested in the follwoing thoughts about the merger and elimination of Conrail in our area..

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3760	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel Products, any out there?

Why waste your energy cussing Lyin-L about not re-issuing AF. Lioonel people have Williams, etc., we have the guy who remade an AF960-ish diner shell, and others--where the technology and capabilities are available, let's make them ourselves. Yeah, we need to do the research for costs, extrusions, quantities, etc. but I am afraid that is the onbly way to solve the problem. No one makes kits anymore, maybe that is a possibility. Doug Peck has those reefers--has he considered passenger cars. We can sure name others as we think. We--Don Thompson and his CZ project. I wish I had the resources to get into this muself, the closest I ever came was in the 1960s when Port Able Lines (NOT Port Lines, sorry) was doing brass conversion floors for GP-7s. For the scale people, I have been advocating full-length carbody shells with accurate repros of the corrugation styles of Pre and Post-war Budd and P-S, with out windows, so we can cut in our own as we need; how about something similar here? As someone once said, you can't start a have car collection with just a 1953 Plymouth. For whatever it is worth. . . . ,

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3761	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: DSL Shops layout

In message <3775C629.652EA07F@...>, Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> writes >From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> > >Hi All, > >I just wanted to let you know that Dave Lull's DSL Shops site is back >online again (as of 6/16/99) and it now has some pictures of Dave's >fantastic S scale home layout. Of coarse, the site still has all of >those great S scale buildings catalogued. However I find Dave's layout >to be extremely inspirational. It's amazing the track plan fits in a 12 >x 13 room and still offer continuous running! Anyway, the URL for the >web site is: http://www.dslshops.com/. It's a slightly slow loading site >but it's well worth the wait. -- Keith THompson in Seattle > Just been onto the site - it a good well designed site but left me wanting to ask more questions. I reckon the layout will accomodate 15 or so freight cars before coming chock a block - with so few freight cars I would want an off stage (beyond the basement spur) which could act as an exchange line - thereby ringing the changes. The layout would be wonderful to operate with a card system - is it proposed. I see a RS3 in one of the photos with 40ft cars are 50ft cars goint to be run - I doubt that they would go round a 22 inch corner and I have my doubts with 40ft cars - I use 30 inch as absloute min. There is no 'context' to the layout given viz: Chicago suburbs 1940 - Illinois Central?..... I hope to meet Dave in Minneapolis -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3762	From: Pete Ervin	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville church

I bought two Plasticville original buildings over the weekend at TTT Hobbies in Frederick, MD. One was the hospital ($20) and the other was the church ($10). The church has yellowed areas on the front wall that appear to be a solvent that was used to cement the walls together. Do you have any ideas as to how to remove the yellowing? It appears to have eaten into the white plastic. Also, what is the best way to glue these structures together? Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3763	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville church

In a message dated 6/28/99 8:19:53 PM, pjervin@... writes: << The church has yellowed areas on the front wall that appear to be a solvent that was used to cement the walls together. Do you have any ideas as to how to remove the yellowing? It appears to have eaten into the white plastic. Also, what is the best way to glue these structures together? >> 1. To the best of my knowledge, the yellowing can not be removed. 2. IF you wish to glue them together, polystyrene cement from any hobby shop will work fine. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3764	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: tank car color

Hi Everyone... Just a quick question. Why are railroad tank cars black in color for the most part? Just wondering... Is anybody going to be either exhibiting at or visiting the Large scale train show to be held in Central New Jersey in late August? I live one town away from the show site and I certainly would enjoy meeting some of you. Joe Langellotti

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3765	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville church

I make it a practice to void gluing Plasticville together because the stuff invariably seems to get mishandled and tabs break off. When left unglued and mishandled it just falls apart and can be reassembled. Works fine for me on my permanent layout. RBubeck327@... wrote: > > From: RBubeck327@... > > In a message dated 6/28/99 8:19:53 PM, pjervin@... writes: > > << The church has yellowed areas on the front wall that appear > to be a solvent that was used to cement the walls together. Do you have > any ideas as to how to remove the yellowing? It appears to have eaten into > the white plastic. > > Also, what is the best way to glue these structures together? >> > > 1. To the best of my knowledge, the yellowing can not be removed. > > 2. IF you wish to glue them together, polystyrene cement from any hobby shop > will work fine. > > Hope this helps. > > RB > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Campaign 2000 is here! > http://www.onelist.com > Discuss your thoughts; get informed at ONElist. See our homepage. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3766	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: tank car color

The tank cars I see most around Pittsford NY are asphalt and heating oil cars being unloaded at a local facility. They're universally black. I'm sure they're black so the black stains running from the filler down the sides don't look as ugly. I have seen blue and white tankers on occasion but only passing thru town. Joseph Langellotti wrote: > > From: joelang@... (Joseph Langellotti) > > Hi Everyone... Just a quick question. Why are railroad tank cars black in > color for the most part? Just wondering... > > Is anybody going to be either exhibiting at or visiting the Large scale > train show to be held in Central New Jersey in late August? I live one town > away from the show site and I certainly would enjoy meeting some of you. > > Joe Langellotti > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Who is the most visited e-mail list community Web Service? > http://www.onelist.com > ONElist.com - where more than 20 million e-mails are exchanged each day! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3767	From: Dennis Back	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville

Diehard Plasticville collectors HATE glued items. It brings down the value if you ever want to sell it. With that said...personally I would use a dab Elmer's white glue only if I really HAD to if things were falling apart. I think you could remove the white glue if you ever had to. Dennis Miami _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3768	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Franklin Choo-Choo

Scott, thats pretty much the way they are, and usually do not smoke much better either. The reason is that Gilbert used the HO smoke unit in the Franklins and Washington locos. Its basically a miniature version of the S unit, and produces about half the sound.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3769	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville church

Pete, there is NO way to remove the staining from original Plasticville assembly glues. So many of those original old Cape Cods and early Churches are ruined due to that solvent. You might try painting them as their value is alreayd lost. If the kits are complete in EX condition in the boxes, you do not want to glue them. If you have loose kits that you want to assemble for a layout, but not ruin the values, use elmers white glue. It takes a while to dry, but when ready to disassemble and sell, just drop them in luke warm soapy water for a few hours, and scrub up with an old tooth brush, and they are good as new. Have fun....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3770	From: The Reis'	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: S scale vehicles for cheap!

Kay-Bee Toys in this area (seattle) also is selling the Racing Champions Mint Cars for $1.67 each (3 for $5.00) including the '55 Chev at an actual 1/64 and some '50 Fords along with many newer Firebirds and Corvettes. There were Hot Rods at this price also. Eric Reis Kenmore Wa. -----Original Message----- From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> To: slist <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Saturday, June 26, 1999 11:26 PM Subject: [S-Trains] S scale vehicles for cheap! >From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> > >Hi All, > >I just got back from Target and they've got the Racing Champions "Street >Wheels" series of cars on closeout for .30 each. THAT'S $0.30! > >The closeout includes the new cars like the 1980's Bronco, '69 Cougar, >'55 Chevy Coupe, and so on. Change out the wheels with Railmaster's or >Athearn's, remove the hood scoops, slap on some new paint, and you've >got some great generic vehicles for a great price. Heck, a couple of >them like the Ford Bronco in white don't need repainting at all. Go >get'em while you can! -- Keith Thompson in Seattle > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Where do some of the Internet's largest email lists reside? >http://www.onelist.com >At ONElist - the most scalable and reliable service on the Internet. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3771	From: Kimball, Bob (PB)	Date: 6/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 286

> ---------- > From: S-Trains@onelist.com[SMTP:S-Trains@onelist.com] > Reply To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 2:37 AM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 286 > > When will you guys learn the rules DO NOT REPLY TO A DIGEST MESSAGE - WE ALL GET 50 MESSAGES IN A 10 MESSEAGE DIGEST. HELLO!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3772	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: FRANKLIN & TRACKS AHEAD

I have a Franklin that while not much of a choo-chooer does smoke very well. I have not disected to see what size smoke chamber it has but it smokes better than my Hudson and Northern. Of course the Pacifics 290, 293, 312AC and 356 are the best smoking and running. For several years I enjoyed Tracks Ahead on public TV, then they were off for a year.Well now Tracks Ahead is back on Sunday afternoon in our Philadelphia/Allentown area. Check your local listing or I can give you an address to send for some of their shows on video. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3773	From: David Horn	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Franklins

The HO smoke and choo-choo in these does not make much choo-choo and what it does manage to muster up is usually washed over by the noisy motor and mechanism. The smoke unit is dependent on a good and consistent tow bar connection for electrical continuity back to the tender (ground is through the chassis). I added a wire to ensure positive, reliable connection and found mine to smoke much better.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3774	From: RWJW3@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville Glue?

All the Plasticville that we use on the layout is "glued" using clear silicone caulk. Holds real good, peels right off when we want it to leaving no residue. Works for us. Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3775	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: Franklins

Thanks to all who replied that the Franklin doesn't choo-choo very well, so I won't bother trying to fix it. I did make the modification to add a wire to improve the smoking, which seems to be working well. I also added a lead weight under the cow catcher. I made a mold of the inside of the cow catcher using a double thickness of heavy duty foil and poured molten lead into the mold to get a weight that fits perfectly. The weight must not extend past the rear of the cow catcher or the pilot wheels will hit it and de-rail. Super glued it in and it seems to be holding. This keeps it from jumping the track. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3776	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Smoking armature windings

I am trying to get a 332DC northern running and am having problems with the armature "sticking" at startup and smoking from the windings. The engine gets real hot and smokes some while it is running too. There is a good deal of sparking where the brushes contact the commutator and I suppose this too is a reason for excessive heat buildup. It used to heat up so much that it would melt the solder off the winding lugs. Using thrust washers and some conductive paste lubricant to reduce the brush arcing seems to have cooled down the motor enough so that the solder doesn't melt, but it still smokes from the windings, especially when the engine is stalled. Measuring the resistance at all combinations of winding lugs gives equal readings of 1.9 Ohms. Does this sound like a rewind candidate? Is it ever normal for the windings to smoke? If I rewind it, should I use the same gauge as is on there or is a different one recommended? As far as the sticking problem; A little push gets the armature spinning. Does anybody have any ideas what causes this? I have the exact same problem with a 372 GP-7 diesel engine, which won't go in reverse unless it's pushed. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3777	From: Bill Porter	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: Smoking armature windings

Hi Scott, Smoking armatures are not a feature of any properly running motor. The excessive heat buildup could be caused by a mechanism that is binding up, not just the motor. Check to be sure it is properly lubricate and that there are no positions in the rotation of the drive wheels that stick. Good Luck, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> To: s-trains <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Tuesday, June 29, 1999 10:06 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Smoking armature windings >From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > >I am trying to get a 332DC northern running and am having problems with the armature "sticking" at >startup and smoking from the windings. The engine gets real hot and smokes some while it is >running too. There is a good deal of sparking where the brushes contact the commutator and I >suppose this too is a reason for excessive heat buildup. It used to heat up so much that it would >melt the solder off the winding lugs. Using thrust washers and some conductive paste lubricant to >reduce the brush arcing seems to have cooled down the motor enough so that the solder doesn't >melt, but it still smokes from the windings, especially when the engine is stalled. Measuring the >resistance at all combinations of winding lugs gives equal readings of 1.9 Ohms. Does this sound >like a rewind candidate? Is it ever normal for the windings to smoke? If I rewind it, should I use >the same gauge as is on there or is a different one recommended? As far as the sticking problem; A >little push gets the armature spinning. Does anybody have any ideas what causes this? I have the >exact same problem with a 372 GP-7 diesel engine, which won't go in reverse unless it's pushed. >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Check out this week's ONElist of the week. >http://www.onelist.com >How is ONElist changing YOUR life? Visit our homepage and let us know! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3778	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: Smoking armature windings

Asise from oil soaked brushes and/or armature windings, or gunk pressed in between the comutator plates making a shorting condition, you have a bad armature thats shorting to the shaft or has an open winding. In that case, have it rewound.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3779	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: smoking armature

Scott: the smoking armature in your 332DC is a VERY BAD sign. Do not run any Flyer loco with a smoking armature for more than a few seconds at a time because the smoke means the insulation on the armature windings is burning up,unless there's oil on the commutator.. The reason that your DC armature is smoking is actually rather interesting. The magnet in the field has become weak. This causes the armature to overheat. The magnet making materials available in the 1950's were nowhere as good as what we have today, unfortunately. Now, I've tried to get some help on this thru s-list in the past without luck. The field has to be remagnetized, or else cut open and the magnet replaced.. Slot car racers use a tool called a magnet zapper to remagnetize their motor fields before a race. I'd love to try this on a Flyer DC field. Alternatively, Model Railroader published an article on remagnetizing motor fields in the early '70's using a homemade device. And I would have no idea how to choose the correct size modern magnet to insert in the field, or how to orient it properly. It also sounds to me as though the armature has burned out. The armatures in Flyer DC locos get hot very quickly when the fields get weak. You probably will need to replace both the field and the armature in this loco. The most com mon reason for Flyer locos needing a push to start is again, armature trouble. I suspect that the armatures in your 332DC and 372 are both damaged, with one of the three coils damaged more than the other two. When the damaged coil is in the circuit, which is the position in which th motor will tend to stop,it won't start easily. This can be roughly determined with a VOM by comparing the resistance readings across the three possible pairs of commutator combinations, and comparing these readings with readings from an identical armature that is running well. Flyer DC locos use different armatures than the AC ones. Flyer DC armatures are usually marked by red or light green paint on the sides. You cannot substitute an AC armature in a DC motor. It would be really nice if we could solve this problem with the DC fields. I have a box of dead ones, but don't seem to be able to acquire the relevant info -- perhaps someone else on s-list could do it. About 4 out of 5 of the Flyer DC locos I've seen have weakened fields and could easily get their armatures toasted like yours did. A really good running Flyer DC loco is rare. I think climate has something to do with the magnet decay -- it may be more pronounced in humid areas. By the way, when disassembling such a loco, place a small piece of steel across the field poles to preserve the magnet. A screw or bolt would be fine. this is called a "keeper bar". Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3780	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: plasticville glue damage

I have had good luck recently removing glue residue from toy train items with a product called Goo Gone, which is made from citrus. It takes a long time to work but does a good job of softening up things like scotch tape residue . If the glue used on the church was a solvent gluesuch as Ambroid or Duco then the plastic was partly dissolved and permanently damaged. If not, the goo gone might help. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3781	From: Neil Trump	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: DC Magnets

Over across the pond here I have seen someone advertise a re-magnetising service for Hornby-Dublo locomotives. I know it's probably too far to send them from an economical point of view but I can find out how much it costs and see if they can accommodate Flyer magnets. I have two 342DC loco's and a 332DC Northern. They all run well and show no signs of weakness, as far as I know they haven't been re-magd and I have had them for at least twenty years. I do have a spare field assembly with magnet and I have a 'Keeper' plate across the bottom to hold the magnetism, it still has a strong magnetic pull on it. I shall be coming over to the States later in the year so if re-magging them can be done here at a reasonable cost I could take some back, but I'm sure there must be someone over your side that can do it Neil T

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3782	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: smoking armature

In a message dated 6/29/99 12:20:50 PM, jarcho@... writes: << The reason that your DC armature is smoking is actually rather interesting. The magnet in the field has become weak. This causes the armature to overheat. The magnet making materials available in the 1950's were nowhere as good as what we have today, unfortunately. >> Tom is offering some good advice here. I have, however, observed smoking armitures in AC engines, too. The copper wire that was used to fabricate the armatures (and fields) in the 'old days' was coated with lacquer which is porous to begin with and can eventually break down and cause shorts that lead to overheating. In more recent times, clear-coated copper wire is insulated with Formex, which is an extremely tough coating. The field magnet may be weak, as Tom suggests, and may be the cause of your troubles, but a rewinding of the armature alone may make fix your problem. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3783	From: Jarcho	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: smoking armature

RB's comment may be true. One the other hand, if you rewind the armature and the permag field is inadequate, the rewound armature will just burn out again. Whenever you rewind an armature or field, it is important to try to determine the cause of the damage and correct it. Otherwise the new coil is likely to burn out too. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3784	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: smoking armature

--- Jarcho <jarcho@...> wrote: > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > RB's comment may be true. One the other hand, if you rewind the armature > and the permag field is inadequate, the rewound armature will just burn out > again. > Is there any way to test the magnet? It seems to be fairly strong. I think I will try rewinding and will watch for signs of overheating. I'm counting on the newer insulation being more heat resistant, along with the other adjustments giving me a little cushion so it won't burn up immediately. Could the enigine be converted to ac by replacing the magnet with a field and the armature with an ac one? Is there any difference in sizes? I did find a web page that talked about remagnetizing speaker magnets using a pound of heavy gauge wire in a coil, a 12 volt power source, a keeper, and banging the magnet with a hammer at the instant the juice is supplied. What do you think? Is it worth a try? The link: http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Articles/TheFlash/Flash06.htm _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3785	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: Franklin Choo-Choo

Roger Wrote: That is how they sounded when they were brand new. Scott Holm wrote: > > Can anybody tell me whether the Franklin engine is supposed to make a definite choo-choo sound > like the other steam engines that have choo-choo? I have one that just makes a grinding or > growling sound, and another Franklin I had for a while was exactly the same way. Is it worth > opening it up to fix or do they just sound like that?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3786	From: Brian Johns	Date: 6/29/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville church

I've had great luck using a hot glue gun to "tack" Plasticville buildings together. Put just a small dab or two along each joint. The hot glue holds the buildings together quite nicely, but is not permanent and is easily removed without damage. Just don't get carried away and put too much glue on the joint! -=[ Brian ]=- _______________________________________________________ "You know, Hobbes, sometimes even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help." -- Calvin _______________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3787	From: Anormal1@aol.com	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Magnets

Addresing the magnets loss of strength. It can be remagnatized by the coil method but forget the hammer. This I belive this is not correct. I called a magnet maker (check your local phone book yellow pages)He agreed with the coil method, but call a magnet co. ask for a tech. the one Icalled was happy to help out. We also spoke of raer earth magnets (Very strong for there size) They could (in theroy)be used to increase field strength,much like taking a screwdriver and magnatizing the tip. NOW: as to why the field magnet would lose strength is partly from the magnets material make up ,but more loss can be laid at when the neg. poles pass each other the weaker perm. magnet, tends to have its structure weakend or to put in other words the weaker perm. magnet's atoms tend (for lack of better words) to form diffrent patterns thus less lines of flux. Heat does have something to do with this also but little. I hope Ihelped some ,again the best thing is to cosult a pro. in this field. Mike S. Also if I got this wrong I'd like to know Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3788	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: DC motors

In a message dated 99-06-30 05:41:30 EDT, you write: << Message: 13 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:11:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> Subject: Re: smoking armature --- Jarcho <jarcho@...> wrote: > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > RB's comment may be true. One the other hand, if you rewind the armature > and the permag field is inadequate, the rewound armature will just burn out > again. > Is there any way to test the magnet? It seems to be fairly strong. I think I will try rewinding and will watch for signs of overheating. I'm counting on the newer insulation being more heat resistant, along with the other adjustments giving me a little cushion so it won't burn up immediately. Could the enigine be converted to ac by replacing the magnet with a field and the armature with an ac one? Is there any difference in sizes? I did find a web page that talked about remagnetizing speaker magnets using a pound of heavy gauge wire in a coil, a 12 volt power source, a keeper, and banging the magnet with a hammer at the instant the juice is supplied. What do you think? Is it worth a try? The link: http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Articles/TheFlash/Flash06.htm >> The AC field is a direct replacement and fits perfectly. It may or may not require a different armature. I don't know for sure. I have several locos with DC fields and AC armatures that run OK. I would be happy to swap AC fields and/or armatures for DC with you or anyone else, as I use DC. Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3789	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: S gauge auto carriers

Has anyone ever manufactured a two or three tier autocarrier in S? I've seen them in O and HO so why not S? Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3790	From: David Horn	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Franklin cc weight

Adding weight to the cow catcher does help. In previous notes I had described the way I did it with a stack of washers. Using lead had crossed my mind but I decided against it due to the fact we had toddlers, now pre-schoolers around the house. To be able to remove the weight later, I used a piece of aluminized duct tape across the bottom and up the back about 1/4" trimmed to the edges of the cow catcher. Holds well, and doesn't look bad.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3791	From: William H Trefts	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re-magnetizing magnets

Greetings, When I was a kid, (defined by age, not attitude,) I remember magnetizing a flywheel magnet in a lawn mower by sticking a strong magnet against it for about a day. As I recall, it worked. I suppose that the strong magnetism of the good magnet realigned the magnetic forces in the weak magnet. Sorry for the terminology, I'm into pianos, not atoms. Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3792	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: DC motors

In a message dated 6/30/99 5:41:35 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << Flyer DC locos use different armatures than the AC ones. Flyer DC armatures are usually marked by red or light green paint on the sides. You cannot substitute an AC armature in a DC motor. By the way, when disassembling such a loco, place a small piece of steel across the field poles to preserve the magnet. A screw or bolt would be fine. this is called a "keeper bar". Tom Jarcho >> Interesting----I have never yet seen a DC armature painted ! BUT, I do seem to notice that the outer edges of the stack of plates in a DC armature appear to be "polished" and much smoother than on an AC armature. Anyone else observe that? Did the factory have to smooth the surface of the assembled armature in order to get the best operation from it? I've noticed this on any armature removed from a DC engine............and in fact, that is how I identify a DC armature at first glance. Is there any other way to tell, assuming no paint appears on them? Are resistance readings different from AC armatures? Re: "keepers", isn't it true that the keeper needs to remain on the field magnet even when assembled and operating............not just when disassembled???? Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3793	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: auto carrier/weights

Lionel made an auto carrier that can be easily converted to S. This car can be found cheap at train shows, if they still have train shows any more. As to weights, I use lead fishing sinkers. These can be hammered into almost any shape without producing saw dust. I just place the sinker on my anvil, a 1:1 gauge tie plate, and wail on it. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3794	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: DC motors

Someone wrote.... <<The AC field is a direct replacement and fits perfectly. It may or may not require a different armature. I don't know for sure. I have several locos with DC fields and AC armatures that run OK.>> I was wondering if someone else had tried this. I have converted locos both ways with the same armature. Although Gilbert listed the armatures under different numbers, I sat one of each next to each other and could find no difference in appearance or physical makeup. I then tested them with a meter, and found slight if any variance at all. Which were the same results I got when using the meter to compare two or three alleged AC armatures. I don't believe there is any difference, and the different Gilbert numbers were for inventory control only to track how many were repaired in DC locos vs AC locos. I do currently have a weak DC field, and it will not work in any loco no matter what armature is in there as was expected. I would like to "Re-Magnetize" this part if I could as they are tough to find.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3795	From: kelvin white	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: S gauge auto carriers

In message <1.5.4.32.19990630130900.00926758@...>, Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...> writes >From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...> > >Has anyone ever manufactured a two or three tier autocarrier in S? I've seen >them in O and HO so why not S? > >Jeff Tangeman > Hi Jeff I believe a passable but not too accuate model of a 2 deck autocarrier as used for vans etc can be made from a lionel 027? auto carrier. There are lot more 'holes' in the modern S scale freight train before I would consider an auto carrier. -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3796	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: auto carrier

Jeff: to my knowledge no one has published a conversion article on this car. I have not converted mine yet, though I do have the autos ready to go. Mine is actually missing the top rack and I will just chain the autos in place. I have a piggyback train made from cut down Lionel flat cars. Had to cut a strip out of the center of each one to reduce width. That is not necessary with the auto rack car. It is not a super accurate model but is much closer to S gauge than O gauge. The main part of my conversion will be changing to AF trucks. The problem with this car is height and weight. I will cut down the truck bolsters so the bottom of the car is completely flat, which will lower the car about 1/8". This will probably mean that some cutting down of the side sills of the car will be necessary, especially near the trucks. Will do this by trial and error. I am hoping that the car will clear Flyer switches -- it's about as long as a 960 series passenger car. Another thing -- 6 or 8 die cast autos weigh a ton! I am going to remove all interior detail on the autos on the bottom, and as much as possible on the autos on the top, to reduce weight. Don't pay a lot for this car -- as a Lionel car it's a piece of sh*t. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3797	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: DC motors

Remagnetizing the fields shouldn't be that hard to do, there is a small engine shop here in my town that remagnetizes magnetos, and they can do the fields too. I haven't had any done, but I have had him do some "hit & miss" engine mags, should be no difference in the process. Just a thought, haven't tried it, but get someone with a DC welder, tape the field to one of the welder leads so it's parallel to the welder wire, and have him/her strike a good arc on some scrap metal, that should also do the trick, as the strong DC field goes past the flyer field, it should align the atoms properly. I probably should check with some "expert" before I suggest this, as it's just an idea in my head. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3798	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: DC motors

There are 2 types of Flyer DC armatures. I measured the resistance on 2 of the later style (small gaps in between poles/ oil slinger) : 1.2 ohms between commutator plates. Can't find any AC armatures in my shop. Of course this measurement was with my Radio Shack VOM which is erratic. Anyone have an AC pulmor armature handy to measure? Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3799	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Balky #770 loader

Someone requested how to fix a balky #770 loader the other day. I fixed mine today by cleaning all the sliding parts with paint thinner, including the containers. It made an amazing difference. Boxes went 1/2 way to car before cleaning, snapped into car after cleaning. I preceded all this by rewiring the installation because it acted just like low voltage. When that didn't work i did the cleaning and the reduction in drag of the solenoid plunger when operatred by hand was very noticeable. -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3800	From: louis glumac	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: Balky #770 loader

Hi try waxingthe shot with car wax,,,,,,,,,, it really makes a difference,,,,,,,,,, ---------- > From: Charles E. Smith <cesmith@...> > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Balky #770 loader > Date: Wednesday, June 30, 1999 12:30 PM > > From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > > Someone requested how to fix a balky #770 loader the other day. I fixed > mine today by cleaning all the sliding parts with paint thinner, > including the containers. It made an amazing difference. Boxes went > 1/2 way to car before cleaning, snapped into car after cleaning. I > preceded all this by rewiring the installation because it acted just > like low voltage. When that didn't work i did the cleaning and the > reduction in drag of the solenoid plunger when operatred by hand was > very noticeable. > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? > http://www.onelist.com > Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3801	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: DC motors

> Just a thought, haven't tried it, but get someone with a DC welder, tape >the field to one of the welder leads so it's parallel to the welder wire, >and have him/her strike a good arc on some scrap metal, that should also do >the trick, as the strong DC field goes past the flyer field, it should align >the atoms properly. How about I build a fusion magnetron, one trillion gigawatts! Pour the entire output through a coil around the DC magnet. My entire train collection will form a giant ball of scrap metal with the 332 at the center, gradually pulling in every piece of metal nearby until it forms a black hole from which nothing can escape! It's an "attractive" idea. uh-oh.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3802	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Scott, do you mean an AC fusion magnetron or a DC fusion magnetron?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3803	From: Scott Holm	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Armature ohmage and DC to AC

>There are 2 types of Flyer DC armatures. I measured the resistance on 2 of >the later style (small gaps in between poles/ oil slinger) : 1.2 ohms >between commutator plates. Can't find any AC armatures in my shop. Of >course this measurement was with my Radio Shack VOM which is erratic. >Anyone have an AC pulmor armature handy to measure? Tom OK, I have an AC pullmor (small gaps) armature. It measures 2.4 Ohms on my Radio Shack VOM. My 332 DC armature however, is the wide gapped type. It does have a shinier face on the outside of the magnet plates and has green paint on one of them. It measures 2.9 Ohms. I also have an AC non-pullmor armature (with wide gaps) that I intend to try in the DC motor for kicks and it measures 2.3 Ohms. Busy-boy in a past post mentioned that he had converted a 332DC to AC using a mechanical reversing unit, a recitifier, and a capacitor. When I first tried running this 332dc using just a rectifier it ran very sluggish and adding a capacitor made a noticable difference. Is 18 volts constant DC too much or should I skip the capacitor, which would reduce the average voltage? Another interesting phenomenon is that this engine barely slows down when in an isolated dead track section that has a lockout eliminator wired to it. It just breezes past the red semaphore signal like it's green. One more question. If I put a reverse unit in the 332 DC tender, would it be the one meant for standard metal tenders or would it be the one meant for 336 engines only?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3804	From: Alan Evans	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Update on NASG 50' UP Freight Cars

Friends: After many delays with the painting and printing of this car (would you believe an HO engine received priority?), they are being shipped from Denver to Pacific Rail Shops in Oregon for packaging and then shipping (via UPS) to John Foley for his shipping. Anticipated shipping date from John is July 16th. We apologize for the delay, and rest assured that you who ordered these cars will receive them! Comments from the painter is they're really a colorful car, so NASG members (who are UP fans!) should sign up for this limited run of 300 cars. Details are on the NASG website. Thanks for your patience. Hope to see you at the NASG Convention in St. Paul! - Alan Evans, chairman NASG Freight Car Committee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3805	From: David Dewey	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: 33X reverse units

Scott, The only difference I'm aware of is the mounting plate; instead of two tabs, there is a plate for two screws. S' David

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3806	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: armature ohmage

1. Those readings seem very high to me. 2. how is the capacitor wired? 3. You can use a reverse unit as a dpdt switch to reverse the DC polarity. Either type should fit. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3807	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Rail

I am not sure where that thread about rail sizes in s scale went to, but I realized there is another detail that needs to be added. Apparently back in the 50's and earlier, rail was sold in 4-foot lengths, not the common 3-foot lengths of today--I have a bundle of it in 4-foot, brass, that came with all the OO stuff I inherted from my Dad when he was active prior to 1960.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3808	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: S gauge auto carriers

If you are talking AF only, my point is moot. There was a full-length Scale auto rack kit done in 1970-ish by Steve Monson, an active Minnesota resident. I bought 2 of them from him at the 1972 NASG convention here-anyone remember that event?? The came as stripwood in a mailing tube, and are, unfortunately, still that way on the shelf. Gee. kelvin white wrote: > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> > > In message <1.5.4.32.19990630130900.00926758@...>, Jeffrey > Tangeman <jt12313@...> writes > >From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...> > > > >Has anyone ever manufactured a two or three tier autocarrier in S? I've seen > >them in O and HO so why not S? > > > >Jeff Tangeman > > > Hi Jeff > > I believe a passable but not too accuate model of a 2 deck autocarrier > as used for vans etc can be made from a lionel 027? auto carrier. > > There are lot more 'holes' in the modern S scale freight train before I > would consider an auto carrier. > -- > Kelvin White > Oxford England > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Attention ONElist list owners. > http://www.onelist.com > Check out the new "DEFAULT MODERATED STATUS" option. See homepage. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3809	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: DC Engines

I've heard (many years ago) that the permanent magnets in DC loco's MUST either have the armature in place, or be bridged from one pole to the other with a magnetic keeper of iron or steel. Leaving a permanent magnet without either one or the other, for even a brief period of time will weaken the magnet. It's also important to keep the magnet clean so that iron filings or other magnetic material are not in contact with the magnet. Question 1: How strong should an AF permanent magnet be? Can it be too strong? Question 2: If an unsatisfactory permanent magnet is "hollowed out" with a drill and filing, or using a milling machine, can a new, more powerful, permanent magnet be put into the hollowed out area (with the new magnet's poles aligned correctly with the original's poles) thereby re-strengthening the old magnet? Question 3: What is the difference between the armature for an AF DC motor, and the armature for a comparably sized AC motor? (Other than the red or green paint spot.) Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3810	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: AC and DC together

The 1947 and 1948 AF catalogs mention the ability to run two engines on the same track in an independent fashion if one is an "electronic propulsion" (DC) and the other is a "standard" (AC) locomotive. (See pages 6 and 7 of either catalog to read the original!) Why doesn't the AC engine respond to the DC used to power the DC engine? What happens to the DC motors when they are subjected only to AC voltage? (Most DC motors vibrate and eventually burn themselves out when subjected to AC.) The 1949 AF catalog still lists DC engines but doesn't mention AC and DC operating together on the same track although they do mention that AC engines will operate on DC. Was the elimination of the claim that AC and DC engines could operate together due to the discovery by the "Researchers at the Gilbert Hall of Science" that it didn't work? Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3811	From: Dennis Back	Date: 6/30/1999
Subject: Re: AC and DC together

--- NYC17819@... wrote: > From: NYC17819@... > > Why doesn't the AC engine respond to the DC used to > power the DC engine? They DO work on DC. With DC engines with DC transformers, you merely throw a switch and bingo....the engine reverses (no neutral to deal with). When you throw the DC transformer reverse switch with an AC engine, it sets the E-unit (reverse unit) in neutral, then you throw the switch again and it goes in reverse, etc. > Was the elimination of the > claim that AC and DC engines > could operate together due to the discovery by the > "Researchers at the > Gilbert Hall of Science" that it didn't work? > But they DO work together! As I said above, you throw the reverse switch on the DC transformer. To keep the AC and DC trains from crashing into each other when they get too close, you keep you hand on the reversing switch. You put the AC engine in neutral while the DC engine is moving away from the AC engine. When they are far enough apart, you throw the switch a few times, and they are both moving again. It's a little tricky, but it's kinda fun. AC- Forward DC- Forward throw switch AC- Neutral (on hold) DC- Reverse throw sw AC- Rev. DC- For. Get the picture? As my fellow S-Trainers say..."It's clear as MUD!" Having fun (running trains in my mind), Dennis Miami _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3812	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Auto Carriers

On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 08:09:00, Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...> wrote: <<Has anyone ever manufactured a two or three tier <<autocarrier in S? I've seen them in O and HO so why <<not S? Quite a few years ago there was an article in S Gaugian about how to construct an auto carrier, so I tried it. It consists of splicing parts of two regular American Flyer flatcars (I used repros) together and simply placing the Lyin'L auto carrier on top. It is the perfect width for the flat cars, but the extra length should be used as a guide for the splicing. I often take this piece to shows where the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers are running our modules. Although it is quite nice to look at, with six Matchbook type cars on it, it is quite a heavy piece. When I get access to the digital camera again, I will take a picture and give it to Paul to put up on his site if there is interest. Joe P.S. Last day for the special 10% savings on the new Gilbert Reproductions!! === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3813	From: David Horn	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: AC/DC and ohms

Shiny armatures - - so maybe a DC armature is what's actually in the multi-cast 302 I bought? It runs fine, but I thought the previous owner was getting experimenting. Most AC armature comm-to-comm resistance measurements I've made have been in the 1.3-1.4 ohm range. I believe these also align with what Barker's book suggests as normal. Haven't measured this on the shiny (now possibly DC) armature in the 302 I mentioned above.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3814	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: S & Sn3 CDS Dry Transfers

I have the following S and Sn3 CDS Dry Transfers available. Price is $3.50 each plus postage. All are new, sealed in the bag, with instructions and line drawing of the lettered car or engine. >S-11 CP Steam large >S-18 CP Wood or Steel Caboose >S-39 Algoma Central 48' & 52' Gondola >S-42 CP Caboose >S-72 CN Steel Caboose >S-118 CNJ Steel Caboose - 2 sets >S-220 Hillcrest 3 truck Climax >S-228 CP Rail Extended Vision Caboose >S-258 Capilano Timber Co. Heisler >S-267 CNJ Large Steam Loco >S-348 West Side Lumber Geared Locos >S-397 Algoma Central Wood Caboose >S-399 CN U1F, 5700 Class K5A Locos >S-401 Algoma Central 40' Wood Box >S-466 CP Steam Loco If you have any questions, or need clarifications, let me know. There is a description on the back of each package. Gregg Mummert gmummert@... S Gauge - the only way to Fly(er)!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3815	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Canada Day

Greetings from Canada on this 132nd anniversary of Confederation. It reminds me that for the 60th anniversary Canadian National Railways under its American-born president, Henry Thornton, inaugurated a train called The Confederation. Such a thing is not likely to happen again. Too bad. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3816	From: kelvin white	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Re: Update on NASG 50' UP Freight Cars

In message <377AB2EE.CAACB706@...>, Alan Evans <rockyfork@...> writes >From: Alan Evans <rockyfork@...> > >Friends: > > After many delays with the painting and printing of this >car (would you believe an HO engine received priority?), >they are being shipped from Denver to Pacific Rail Shops in >Oregon for packaging and then shipping (via UPS) to John >Foley for his shipping. Anticipated shipping date from >John is July 16th. > > We apologize for the delay, and rest assured that you >who ordered these cars will receive them! >Comments from the painter is they're really a colorful car, >so NASG members (who are UP fans!) should sign up for this >limited run of 300 cars. Details are on the NASG website. > > Thanks for your patience. Hope to see you at the NASG >Convention in St. Paul! > > - Alan Evans, chairman > NASG Freight Car Committee > Hi Alan What period/ paint date is on this freight car? Thanks -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3817	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: [Fwd: FW: MNRail: UP C&E to help NS]

More info on the (merger) looks like everyone is helping out..

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3818	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Smokey the armature

- Greeting`S' - Hope everyone has looked at the various reproductions of A F service pages where the maximum current at specified voltage while running on an oval of track is given for each locomotive. Use that information. I use a voltmeter and an ammeter on each track circuit. This helps me keep up with the running of each locomotive. The voltmeters and ammeters I use were bought at swapmeets run by amateur radio operators and known as ham- fests. For my DC-driven layout the prices were modest, $1 for voltmeters, $4 for ammeters. Shop carefully. Yes, 1.2 to 1.5 ohms between commutator bars seems to be the norm. Now, about the PM field. Many moons ago an acquaintance complained to a friend about the poor performance of his HO loco. Friend took the loco, disassembled it, cleaned it, took the motor apart and cleaned it, and put it all back together. Then it ran even worse. He asked me about it. My suggestion was to leave the motor assembled and put it in the magnetizer. He did not believe me about the assembled part, but gave it a try anyway. I think he spent the remainder of the day taking that motor apart, putting it back together, and remagnetizing it until he was convinced. The rare- earth magnets today are much better at retention of magnetic field intens- ity than the older Alnico magnets. If one plans to take a PM magnet apart and not have to remagnetize it, use a keeper to go across the poles which is iron or steel, which is thick, and which makes good surface contact with each pole, not line contact. The well-fitting keeper must go on before the armature is removed and not be taken away until after the armature has been replaced. If you want all the field thru the armature, you must take the keeper off once the motor is together. What happens inside the magnet? Atoms get locked together in a pattern called a magnetic domain while trying to share electrons. The three ferromagnetic elements have a peculiarly-missing electron in an inner shell and this business makes them function together as a small magnet. This small magnet is the domain. An applied magnetic field causes the sharing atoms to change partners and the new domains align more and more closely as the applied field stregthens. Soft magnetic materials align domains easily and permit the domains to go random as the field is removed. If the surface of this material is highly polished and etched and then viewed thru a microscope while illuminated with polarized light, the domains may be viewed and may be seen to move as a field is applied. Hard magnetic materials are physically hard (and brittle). Domains are reluctant to change direction. However, once the direction ha been changed with a magnetizer, then are reluctant to move again. BUT, if too much air is put in the path, they will move and stay moved, for the most part. Yes, a physical vibration such as tapping the magnet with a hammer will help align the domains. Unfortunately, the brittle metal will fracture, maybe shatter, if the tap is too vigorous. Heating may help, but the applied field must be maintained while the magnet cools. No, I would not want to spend the time and grinding wheels trying to hollow out one magnet to make space for another. Yes, I would want the magnet to be remagnetized in the direction of original magnetization. Sorry, I have soaked you with too many words when what you wanted to do was direct the smoke out the stack. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3819	From: Alan Evans	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Looking for rider(s) to NASG Convention

Friends: Received a call from an S gauger who's looking for riders to the Convention later this month. He already has a room, so dividing expenses will help both. He's an excellent modeller, also. If interested, contact Ed Filer 304-473-0271 101 Pocahontas Dr. Buckhannon, WV 26201 Thanks. - Alan Evans

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3820	From: david s garber	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: "S" in Switzerland

Hi, going to Switzerland soon, does anyone know if there is any active "S" flyer there? Dave Garber. Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3821	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Confused about the York Train Show

OK, We are planning an October vacation around the York Train Show, our first visit. My first problem has to do with dates. I recently joined TCA but have not received any newsletters yet. Recently I asked the dates of the October show here and was told October 15 and 16 were the days were the dates printed in the TCA newsletter. Now, in searching for more information, I have found a Web Site http://www.kalmbach.com/ctt/Events/Events.html#Pennsylvania that says the dates are October 12, 13 & 14. I have to get the dates right; we are traveling from Florida, and this has to do with scheduling time off from work, etc. Second, does the show draw so many people as to fill up available hotel rooms in the area? Would it be better to stay over at Lancaster and drive to York? What part of York is the show in? Is there a hotel that would likely have available rooms that is near the show? Third, which day of the show offers the best opportunity to see the show and make purchases? Is the first day the biggest? Should I plan on attending every day? Does the show have a Web Site that offers official information? Alot of the information I find on the Internet seems to be about shows held two or three years ago. The phrase old news is NO NEWS certainly applies here. It would be nice if these sites can't be updated, that the people hosting them would just shut them off so that the search engines don't find them. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks, Chuck Harrington

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3822	From: M.McConnell	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Nickel-Silver or Brass

I've been trying to decide on which type of material makes the best track, Nickel-Silver or Brass (keeping cost in mind). Recently, I heard that the latest formulation of brass is much better than previously available and that it conducts electricity as good, if not better, than NS and the corrosion problems are insignificant. I've always been under the impression that NS is always more desirable, if you can afford it. Any thoughts??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3823	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Re: Confused about the York Train Show

See comments below: Chuck Harrington wrote: > > From: Chuck Harrington <paketpet@...> > > We are planning an October vacation around the York Train Show, our > first visit. My first problem has to do with dates. I recently joined > TCA but have not received any newsletters yet. Recently I asked the > dates of the October show here and was told October 15 and 16 were the > days were the dates printed in the TCA newsletter. Now, in searching for > more information, I have found a Web Site > http://www.kalmbach.com/ctt/Events/Events.html#Pennsylvania that says > the dates are October 12, 13 & 14. I have to get the dates right; we > are traveling from Florida, and this has to do with scheduling time off > from work, etc. > The actual TCA show at York Fairground is always on Friday and Saturday, which would be the 15th and 16th. During the week of the show before Friday (Oct.12, 13 & 14) there are several train shows going on at motels around York and at the Valencia Ballroom in downtown York. At these shows are many of the same sellers who will be at the Fairgrounds starting Thurs. You should consider attending these shows at least on Thu. to get stuff before someone else does either there or at the Fairground. However, for new stuff there will be more vendors at the Fairgrounds than at these early shows. > Second, does the show draw so many people as to fill up available hotel > rooms in the area? Would it be better to stay over at Lancaster and > drive to York? What part of York is the show in? Is there a hotel that > would likely have available rooms that is near the show? > It's wise to reserve and do it early. The local motels seem to be pretty full by showtime. Remember that thousands of people are attending for much of the week. I would stay close to York if there's anything available rather than face traffic driving in and out of town. There is always a lot of congestion around the fairgrounds on the Fri. and Sat. of the show at starting and ending time. > Third, which day of the show offers the best opportunity to see the show > and make purchases? Is the first day the biggest? Should I plan on > attending every day? > I think Friday is the biggest day. We now go Friday and not Saturday because we have attended the local shows on Wed. PM and Thu. all day. As I recall the show ends earlier on Sat. PM. > Does the show have a Web Site that offers official information? Alot of > the information I find on the Internet seems to be about shows held two > or three years ago. The phrase old news is NO NEWS certainly applies > here. It would be nice if these sites can't be updated, that the people > hosting them would just shut them off so that the search engines don't > find them. I checked the TCA website and the Fall show isn't listed yet. There is an email address there where you could write and ask for info. The site's at: http://www.traincollectors.org/index.html and there is an email link on that page. > > Any help would be appreciated! > > Thanks, Chuck Harrington -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3824	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass

For my money I absolutely prefer Nickel Silver because of the color. Weathered rail with a clean nickel silver top looks much more realistic than brass, and conductivity of NS has always seemed OK to me. I was disappointed when AM went from NS to brass because I use their track on some of my home layout and exclusively on my modules. "M.McConnell" wrote: > > From: "M.McConnell" <mmcconn@...> > > I've been trying to decide on which type of material makes the best track, > Nickel-Silver or Brass (keeping cost in mind). > > Recently, I heard that the latest formulation of brass is much better than > previously available and that it conducts electricity as good, if not > better, than NS and the corrosion problems are insignificant. I've always > been under the impression that NS is always more desirable, if you can > afford it. > > Any thoughts?? > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Attention ONElist list owners. > http://www.onelist.com > Check out the new "DEFAULT MODERATED STATUS" option. See homepage. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3825	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Add smoke/choo-choo to #307?

Greetings O Sage American Flyer Gurus! I'm curious about something... I've got a #307 Atlantic that was given to me as a gift a couple of years ago. It's one without smoke and choo-choo. As a result, the front end of the engine is light-weight enough that it tends to raise up off the tracks when it's pulling a load. Hmmm, I dunno...steam engines just don't look graceful trying to "pop a wheelie." <grin> Because the Pull-Mor tires are on the front two drivers, that makes it's traction even poorer and it slips a lot until it gets up to speed. (Go figure...why didn't they put the Pull-Mor tires on the back two drivers?!) I've thought about adding weight to the front end...but then the idea of the smoke unit occurred to me. I'm going to add weight to it, I might as well add a smoke unit if I can find an affordable one. I've got a new wick/coil kit waiting if I find one that needs overhauled. Does the #307 chassis have everything required to mount the gear, etc? And if so, does anyone have an ailing smoke unit w/gear and connecting rod to sell? Thanks! -=[ Brian ]=- _______________________________________________________ There are three things that happen with old age: 1. You begin to lose your memory 2. 3. _______________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3826	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/1/1999
Subject: Re: Rail

At 9:23 PM 6/30/99, Dave and Kathy Engle wrote: > >I am not sure where that thread about rail sizes in s scale went to, but >I realized there is another detail that needs to be added. Apparently >back in the 50's and earlier, rail was sold in 4-foot lengths, not the >common 3-foot lengths of today--I have a bundle of it in 4-foot, brass, >that came with all the OO stuff I inherted from my Dad when he was >active prior to 1960. > Dave, You now have my inerest on the length of rail since in the early '50's I purchase brass 125 rail in a 99' bundle; each piece of rail being 3' long. I went back through my old catalogs from '51 to '55 and of the various codes of rail sold, they were all sold in 99' bundles. Also, the old full page ads of S scale items from '47, '48, & '49 Model Railroader only listed track in 3' lengths. I couldn't find anything in 4' lengths. This now begs the question as to where your bundle of 4' lenght rail came from! Although it could have been from before 1947, I doubt that anything other than 3' lengths of rail were made in the US. Is there a chance it came from outside the US? My recollection (which may not be too good at this point) is that some OO was made overseas and sold in the US. I realy don't have an answer for you on the origin of the 4' rail lengths, but I sure am interested. Anybody out there have an answer? Lee Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3827	From: Mark Preman	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

The July list has been posted. I have been very fortunate over the last few months in being able to find some really nice "collector" items. This month, however, you will notice a larger infusion of "operator" grade stuff. You will find items priced for kitbashing and for repainting as well as a project piece or two. There will be more such posted as soon as I can clean them up enough to figure out what they are. Happy hunting! Mark Click on this: http://www.americanflyertrains.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3828	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Reversing Switches

Are there any commercially available switches or devices that change the direction of a locomotive automatically so that it can run back and forth on a short, single piece of track? The power could be AC or DC. What I have in mind is an engine that runs to the West end of the track, a switch is thrown, it reverses and runs to the East end where it reverses again. I think I read earlier that there is an AF deflecting track section that accomplishes this, but I'd like to know what other options are available. Peter Ervin PS: May 1999 Smithsonian has an article about AC Gilbert. Saw it in an office, but didn't get to read it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3829	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Reversing Switches

At 08:45 AM 7/2/99 -0400, Peter Ervin wrote: >From: Peter Ervin <pjervin@...> > >Are there any commercially available switches or devices that change the >direction of a locomotive automatically so that it can run back and forth >on a short, single piece of track? The power could be AC or DC. What I >have in mind is an engine that runs to the West end of the track, a switch >is thrown, it reverses and runs to the East end where it reverses again. I >think I read earlier that there is an AF deflecting track section that >accomplishes this, but I'd like to know what other options are available. > >Peter Ervin > >PS: May 1999 Smithsonian has an article about AC Gilbert. Saw it in an >office, but didn't get to read it. Miniatronics sells a reversing unit (RU1-1), with all parts needed. Operates automatically or with push buttons, I think. Includes a DC power supply -- designed for 12V I think -- don't know if it can handle more. Available from any dealer selling Miniatronics. I think Circuitron does as well. Check a Walthers catalog... Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3830	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Reversing Switches

Dallee Electronics http://www.dallee.com offers a variety of "AUTOMATIC BACK-N-FORTH" control packages for reversing locomotives/trolleys automatically on a single track or multiple connected tracks. It seems to me that RF Giardinia offered a single track automatic reversing control, but I can't find his catalog. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3831	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Reversing Switches

--- Roger Delthony <delthony@...> wrote: > It seems to me that RF Giardinia offered a single track automatic reversing control... Here's the Giardina's online catalog web page that has the unit: http://members.aol.com/rfgtrains/electronics.html _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3832	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: add smoke/choochoo

Brian: yes the307 chassis can take a smoke unit. You need a gear stud, gear, gear rod, plunger, plunger pin,side rod screw, smoke unit, and red plastic chimney. If you don't want to go thru all this, get some of those little steel straps that they sell in hardware stores for attaching pieces of wood together and bolt a stack of them in place on the chassis where the smoke unit would go with a long screw and nut, using the smoke unit screw mounting hole in the chassis. This will give you the weight you need. Have seen one or two like this that may have been done at the ACG factory. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3833	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Rail

Regarding 4' rail -- About 1953 I purchased 100' of steel .125 rail in 4' lengths from Eastern Model Railroad Co. in Hasbrouck Heights, New Jersey. I had quite a time getting it home on my bicycle! Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3834	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass

"M.McConnell" wrote: > I've been trying to decide on which type of material makes the best track, > Nickel-Silver or Brass (keeping cost in mind). Nickel-silver has all the advantages and no disadvantage. Its oxide is a conductor, and its railhead has the right color. The oxide that forms on brass is an insulator, and brass has the wrong color. Both metals solder easily. Conductivity of the metal is not a factor. Nickel-silver rail has sufficient cross-section for more than adequate conductivity. Where you lose conductivity is in the rail joiners, which have a much smaller cross-section. If you don't use lots of feeder wires to the rails at various points on your railroad, the joiners will cause significant voltage drop the farther you get from your power supply. Another down side to brass: As oxide builds up under the rail joiner, current capacity from rail to rail through the joiner diminishes over time. So be sure to use nickel-silver joiners with nickel-silver rail -- or else solder your joints. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3835	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass

Hi all, In our scale, I think you are better off to do what the interuban lines do, and solder jumpers across the joints rather than solder the joints. This allow the rail to expand and contract as temperature changes. This might not be as critical as I am assuming, but I recently noticed some HO track on a loong run that wasn't yet glued down, and it developed a nice S in it as the temperature around here became uncomfortable! (We've been having 100+ stuff) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3836	From: RKuep44202@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: ERTL Trainsets

I was on the road today and stopped at Crouse Tru-Value Hardware at Ohio Rts 7 and 164 in North Lima, Ohio. They had 4 battery operated Soo Line train sets in boxes priced at $21.99! Their telephone number is (330) 549-2144. Dick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3837	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: scale rail talk

Just weld the ends together, shouldn't have any electrical problems with a good joint like that! That's what the big boys do isn't it?(sorry, there goes my sarcasm syndrome again)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3838	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: TCA York train show

In addition to the York train show, there is a fall car ( 12"/ft automobile) show in Carlyle, PA, which is about 30 miles west of York. If this is the same week as York (Carlyle runs Thursday thru Saturday) , motels double their prices for Carlyle. I've never stayed in York, although I've called some York motels (2 Holiday Inns, a Best Western, Super 8) shortly before the show and they're all sold out. I've stayed at a motel up I-83 at the PA Turnpike which has been available and prices reasonable. Mid October is also foliage time in southern PA, so that you'll find motels in Lancaster filling up each day, but you shouldn't have a problem if you have a reservation. Lancaster is about a 30-40 minute drive from York. The York show is like any other train show. Get there early for the best selection, and shop late for the packing up bargains. For selection be at the motels on Wednesday or Thursday (even Tuesday or Monday), and Friday at the Fairgrounds. For bargains, Saturday at the Fairgrounds. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3839	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass

Roger Hinds Replied: Nickle silver is by far the best choice of the two. Brass tends to get dirty a LOT faster. Also nickle silver looks a lot better. HTTP://travel.to/cofa/ M.McConnell wrote: I've been trying to decide on which type of material makes the best track, > Nickel-Silver or Brass (keeping cost in mind). > > Recently, I heard that the latest formulation of brass is much better than > previously available and that it conducts electricity as good, if not > better, than NS and the corrosion problems are insignificant. I've always > been under the impression that NS is always more desirable, if you can > afford it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3840	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass

David Dewey wrote: > Hi all, > In our scale, I think you are better off to do what the interuban lines > do, and solder jumpers across the joints rather than solder the joints. This > allow the rail to expand and contract as temperature changes. This might not > be as critical as I am assuming, but I recently noticed some HO track on a > loong run that wasn't yet glued down, and it developed a nice S in it as the > temperature around here became uncomfortable! (We've been having 100+ stuff) Use enough spikes (every fourth tie) and put your layout in a basement belkow ground level. Soldering the joints works great -- no buckling. If you have large temperature extremes, solder two joints in a row, leave the third unsoldered. Don't use jumper wires -- These limit current just like rail joiners. Instead, bus the entire layout with 12-gauge wire and attach short feeders from the bus to every 9' rail section. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3841	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: scale rail talk

CB, Weld would work, but where would you get the nickel-silver thermite?? (of course, this would only be corrrect for modern-era modeling!) S' David D. (who??, not me!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3842	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass

Basement?? What the heck's a basement?? (Out here in the land of fruits & nuts, most houses today are built on a concrete slab--which doesn't stop the termites from coming up where the drain pipes go through the floor!!!--I'm learning that the hard way!!) At my folk's place a basement wouldn't do much good either, there's an underground river under them, about 3' to 4' under! Anyone for a water-level layout??? Bus wires would be a lot easier to do than prototypical bonding wires, But IMHO, a good sized, properly done, bonding wire won't be an electrical hinderance, after all, the real size electric trains used them! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3843	From: David Horn	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: 21155 and 21004/5 operation

I've got both of these on my wish list. Mostly the 21155 (don't care much for the curtain on the back of the 21004 or 5). I'd like to know what they're like in terms of operation. The docksiders have the repution of "not so hot". But I'm not exactly what people mean. I look for fast, smooth, strong, and smokey since I'm primarily an operator. Do either, or both, of these meet that criteria in your experience with them? Thanks in advance for your opinion. A few of my favorites are 293, 326 (lg motor), 343, 336 (lg motor), 21085, 312, and die cast 302. The least appealing in terms of operation (but nothing goes quite as well with the old fashioned passenger cars) is the 21088 (noisy and that hobble-bobble hip-hop at high speeds).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3844	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Lionel and scale decals.

Hi Everyone, I was browsing the web today at lunchtime and checked out the forthcoming July catalog at Lionel. Their comment on Flyer went something like "not available or soon to be on the on-line order". I even checked their Christmas items. Some O scale and G scale but no Flyer. I would have thought a S gauge Christmas car was the best bet. Now for the good news. I found an S scale decal for a low sided Virginian Gondola at WWW.greatdecals.com If you want to see a picture check ebay #122269460. Check soon as this closes very early Sunday morning. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3845	From: David Horn	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: York on Thursday

Chuck, I get to go to York one day in April and one day in October (if my business calendar allows), so I go on Friday, but I'm very intrigued about Thursday. Yet I don't want to blow my only day and chance to buy trains. What, where, and when are the mini-shows and side events that are good to go to on Thursday? It might actually be a better use of my time than Friday. While at this past York I got the distinct feeling all the VG/E AF stuff was bought already and mostly what was left on Friday was the Fair/Good or E+/LN, which means nothing I want or can afford. Thanks for your help.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3846	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: 21155 and 21004/5 operation

David and 'S'ers, I've had my 21004 since I was 11 years old. It is a very solid performing engine. It runs at maniacal speeds (on the order of 200 smph) compared to what prototype 0-6-0s could do. But if your thing is switching at Flyer speeds (at least 100 smph), then this is your boy. Also, in my opinion, the Gilbert-produced 0-8-0 is one of the nicest engines in their line (beautiful side-rod action). The problem with both of these engines these days is finding one at a reasonable price. Good luck. Jay Mellon Crescent City S Gaugers New Orleans, LA > ---------- > From: David Horn[SMTP:David_Horn@...] > Sent: Friday, July 02, 1999 4:36 PM > To: 'S-Trains@onelist.com' > Subject: [S-Trains] 21155 and 21004/5 operation > > From: David Horn <David_Horn@...> > > I've got both of these on my wish list. Mostly the 21155 (don't > care much > for the curtain on the back of the 21004 or 5). I'd like to know what > they're like in terms of operation. The docksiders have the repution of > "not so hot". But I'm not exactly what people mean. I look for fast, > smooth, strong, and smokey since I'm primarily an operator. Do either, or > both, of these meet that criteria in your experience with them? Thanks in > advance for your opinion. A few of my favorites are 293, 326 (lg motor), > 343, 336 (lg motor), 21085, 312, and die cast 302. The least appealing in > terms of operation (but nothing goes quite as well with the old fashioned > passenger cars) is the 21088 (noisy and that hobble-bobble hip-hop at high > speeds). > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: the best source for group communications. > http://www.onelist.com > Join a new list today! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3847	From: Dennis Back	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Docksiders

--- David Horn <David_Horn@...> wrote: > The docksiders > have the reputation of > "not so hot". What I think people mean is that the sliding electrical pickups that contact the track give problems. Once I get mine working....it performs GREAT! My problems were when used to use them once a year. Now that use my trains more...they ALL work better. My Docksider is the FASTEST thing on the tracks. I gun it down the straight sections and let off quickly on the curves or else it will FLY off the tracks. As as kid...I used to see how fast I could go without de-railing. As a matter of fact...I STILL do it. I have recently converted it to DC so I can reverse it. I now use it on a side track to unload the Piggyback Unloader. Another thing...while I'm confessing kid stuff...When I got my Blue Docksider new back when I was about 10 years old, I thought that BLUE was a real SISSY color for a train. So I painted it FLAT BLACK!!! (ACG forgive me) I had sense enough though, to mask off the side numbers. Well...30 something years later, I got lacquer thinner and took off the black paint. It worked, but it DID take some of the detail off the raised pastic and I still see some black shadows (which I like to think of as yard dirt). Thanks for listening to my CONFESSION! Dennis (I promise not to spray my trains again) Back Miami _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3848	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: AutoRack

Message: 21 Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 21:09:23 -0500 From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> Subject: Re: S gauge auto carriers If you are talking AF only, my point is moot. There was a full-length Scale auto rack kit done in 1970-ish by Steve Monson, an active Minnesota resident. -------------------------------------------------------------------- I think that it was this self-same auto rack that got me into S modeling. I had gotten my AF out of the attic and decided I should either sell it, or buy more stuff. In the course of buying more AF, I met a guy who had a pile of S scale magazines (S-Gaugian, Dispatch). In one of those magazines I found a Monson (Sunshine Models?) ad. I called him. He passed my name on to Ken Zieska, Ken called me, and................. here we are! Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3849	From: Neil Trump	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: 21155 and 21004/5 operation

In some ways I have to say that it is far easier to do routine maintenance on the 0-8-0's than the 0-6-0 slope backs. I've had to control myself a couple of times when I've had to shoe-horn an 0-6-0 chassis back into its body. The other draw back with the 0-6-0's is the rear mounts, the don't stand to much abuse from over tightening. Apart from that I think they are both great performers. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3850	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass

The most critical argument for nickel-silver is that the oxide is a conductor, not the case for brass. Roger Hinds wrote: > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > > Roger Hinds Replied: > Nickle silver is by far the best choice of the two. > Brass tends to get dirty a LOT faster. Also nickle silver looks a lot > better. > > HTTP://travel.to/cofa/ > > M.McConnell wrote: > > I've been trying to decide on which type of material makes the best > track, > > Nickel-Silver or Brass (keeping cost in mind). > > > > Recently, I heard that the latest formulation of brass is much better than > > previously available and that it conducts electricity as good, if not > > better, than NS and the corrosion problems are insignificant. I've always > > been under the impression that NS is always more desirable, if you can > > afford it. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Looking to expand your world? > http://www.onelist.com > ONElist has 180,000 e-mail communities from which to choose! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3851	From: Jarcho	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: late Flyer steamers

Yes David, the 21004 & 21005 are fine running engines. The plastic bodies are very brittle and more often than not are found in damaged condition. Especially, the motor mounts, the details under the cab, and the front of the boiler are subject to shattering. The armatures are also vulnerable to being burned out, because later Flyer locos were designed to run on less power than classic Flyer. The front coupler does not work well because the swing is too wide.. It's ok if operated slowly though. The docksiders also can run well. They use even less power than the 0-6-0's and are more vulnerable to armature burnout. The pickup shoes are easily damaged by any flaw in the track. New shoes just pop in, and the plastic part that holds them can generally be repaired with a plastic pick up stick turned down in an electric drill. �he upper armature bearing holder arrangement is strictly from hunger -- a bearing floating around in a star washer. If you cal get it located correctly, it can be ACC'd in place. Operated with great care, both these types can be fun. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3852	From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass

David Dewey wrote: > Anyone for a water-level layout??? If it has a four track mainline along the Hudson River, I'd sure like to see it. Ed L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3853	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: 21155 and 21004/5 operation

I just got a 21004 at the Midlothian, Illinois (Chicago suburb) train show which is held monthly. I paid $250 which I think was a pretty good bargain. The guy who sold it has another one out there again which he is probably selling for the same price, and which I don't think he sold. He brought the one I bought for 4 months before I bought it. Two rows over another guy was asking $400 for a 21004. Anyway, it runs great, except it has that screwball two step reverse that the Franklin has. I could do without that. This train show is loaded with bargains. This one guy was setting up a table that I was one person too late for at which he was selling a EX 919 coal dump car with the original box for $30, an EX ATSF boxcar for $15, and a really nice custom detailed plasticville signal tower for $15, plus a caboose. The guy standing in front of me bought all three items and the seller threw in the caboose for free. I was sick. I really wanted that signal tower. At the next show I'm going to seek that guy out and be first in line for sure! I did manage to get a cow on the track and plasticville firehouse, police station, gas station and bungalows, so it was still a successful visit. The month before one guy had the hardcover editions of the Greenburg guides to American Flyer volumes one and two for $30 dollars each. Since I already have the softcover 1 and the hardcover 2 I wasn't that interested, but by the time I thought I'd buy them to perhaps offer them to people on this list, they were gone. I'll be quicker on the draw next time.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3854	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Re: Bakers Chocolate

SKIP this posting if you object to an advertisement of sorts. But I think this is somewhat special! NEW RELEASE !!!!! For you highrail guys only (sorry!)-----We've just released our new National Car Company flatcar (in two different prototype numbers) with the double container load for Bakers Chocolate. These cars actually existed and ran in the 40s and 50s (See NHRRHS "Shoreliner bulletin, 1987, Volume 18, #4, page 8 for a prototype photo). The loads (identical to the Gilbert Bordens Milk loads) are decorated with the BAKERS CHOCOLATE name, and the multicolored lady logo in the center. Two prototype numbers available: 1435 and 1450. $49.95 each, plus $5 shipping per order. This is a limited run, although we may consider another run if they are well-received. We should have this up on our website in the next week or so (http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html). OR download the images directly at http://members.aol.com/portlines/BAKERSCARS.jpg and http://members.aol.com/portlines/BAKERSLOAD.jpg THEN SEND YOUR ORDERS ALONG, BEFORE THEY'RE ALL GONE !!!! Also newly available, and soon to appear on the website, is the URTX Banana reefer ($36.95) scale or highrail: http://members.aol.com/portlines/URTX.jpg MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 66-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 48 page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3855	From: John Foley	Date: 7/2/1999
Subject: Brass for Sale

Hi Folks The Complete roster of the East Branch Railway is up for sale. Booth locos are painted and lighted and run great. 1. Overland FA-2 with real glass, diaphragm and 802's. 2. overland S-1 with blunt trucks, and 802's Both above are painted. brown top, yellow bottom, red stripe and fully lettered. 3. Scenery Unlimited gas-electric. [doodlebug] painted pullmen green, fully lettered, 802's and 4. Overland NE style wood caboose. Painted caboose red and fully lettered, real glass, 802's, lighted interior with lighted marker lights and a brakemen inside. 5. Two AM hoppers custom painted and lettered with load and 802's 6. Two AM smooth side passenger cars cut down to 60 footers paint matches FA-2 above. Lighted 7. Two kit bashed passenger cars painted pullmen green. Round harrimen style roofs. needs couplers. All passenger cars have diaphragms 8. Two AM reefers painted pullmen green an lettered for milk service. 9. One AM boxcar painted pullmen green and letered for REA. Alls cars have 802's All above Shipped or bought to convention $1,800 Seller with only sell as package Contact John Foley e-mail foley164@... Phone/fax 570 622-3413

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3856	From: Lawrence and Jill Boul	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: New web site

If I can be forgiven a bit of blatant commercialism; New Zealand Finescale's website is now presentable. It is exclusively Sn3.5 New Zealand Railways, but there may be goodies there of general interest. Certainly, there are some nice models, and I'll be trying to put more of those there as soon as I can get the photographs taken and scanned. Currently at www.inet.net.nz/~lawrenceandjill but moving to www.nzfinescale.inet.net.nz soon. The first address should continue to work after the change. Cheers Lawrence Boul -----Original Message----- From: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Saturday, July 03, 1999 09:33 Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 292 > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Attention ONElist list owners. >http://www.onelist.com >We've just added a "NO ATTACHMENTS" option. See homepage for details. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >There are 4 messages in this issue. > >Topics in today's digest: > > 1. Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass > From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> > 2. Re: 21155 and 21004/5 operation > From: Scott Holm <IMSSCOTT@...> > 3. Re: Bakers Chocolate > From: PortLines@... > 4. Brass for Sale > From: John Foley <foley164@...> > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 16:43:24 -0700 > From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> >Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver or Brass > >David Dewey wrote: > >> Anyone for a water-level layout??? > >If it has a four track mainline along the Hudson River, I'd sure like to >see it. Ed L. > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 21:44:07 -0500 > From: Scott Holm <IMSSCOTT@...> >Subject: Re: 21155 and 21004/5 operation > >I just got a 21004 at the Midlothian, Illinois (Chicago suburb) train show which is held monthly. I paid $250 which I think was a >pretty good bargain. The guy who sold it has another one out there again which he is probably selling for the same price, and which >I don't think he sold. He brought the one I bought for 4 months before I bought it. Two rows over another guy was asking $400 for a >21004. Anyway, it runs great, except it has that screwball two step reverse that the Franklin has. I could do without that. > >This train show is loaded with bargains. This one guy was setting up a table that I was one person too late for at which he was >selling a EX 919 coal dump car with the original box for $30, an EX ATSF boxcar for $15, and a really nice custom detailed >plasticville signal tower for $15, plus a caboose. The guy standing in front of me bought all three items and the seller threw in >the caboose for free. I was sick. I really wanted that signal tower. At the next show I'm going to seek that guy out and be first in >line for sure! I did manage to get a cow on the track and plasticville firehouse, police station, gas station and bungalows, so it >was still a successful visit. The month before one guy had the hardcover editions of the Greenburg guides to American Flyer volumes >one and two for $30 dollars each. Since I already have the softcover 1 and the hardcover 2 I wasn't that interested, but by the time >I thought I'd buy them to perhaps offer them to people on this list, they were gone. I'll be quicker on the draw next time. > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 22:40:55 EDT > From: PortLines@... >Subject: Re: Bakers Chocolate > >SKIP this posting if you object to an advertisement of sorts. But I think >this is somewhat special! >NEW RELEASE !!!!! >For you highrail guys only (sorry!)-----We've just released our new National >Car Company flatcar (in two different prototype numbers) with the double >container load for Bakers Chocolate. These cars actually existed and ran in >the 40s and 50s (See NHRRHS "Shoreliner bulletin, 1987, Volume 18, #4, page 8 >for a prototype photo). The loads (identical to the Gilbert Bordens Milk >loads) are decorated with the BAKERS CHOCOLATE name, and the multicolored >lady logo in the center. >Two prototype numbers available: 1435 and 1450. $49.95 each, plus $5 >shipping per order. This is a limited run, although we may consider another >run if they are well-received. >We should have this up on our website in the next week or so >(http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html). >OR download the images directly at >http://members.aol.com/portlines/BAKERSCARS.jpg >and >http://members.aol.com/portlines/BAKERSLOAD.jpg >THEN SEND YOUR ORDERS ALONG, BEFORE THEY'RE ALL GONE !!!! > >Also newly available, and soon to appear on the website, is the URTX Banana >reefer ($36.95) scale or highrail: >http://members.aol.com/portlines/URTX.jpg > >MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. >Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only >Port Lines Hobby Supply >6 Storeybrooke Drive >Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 >portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html >We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES >offers three different catalogs: (a) our 66-page American Flyer� Parts >Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 48 page >New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 >are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid. > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 02 Jul 1999 22:44:39 -0700 > From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: Brass for Sale > >Hi Folks > The Complete roster of the East Branch Railway is up >for sale. Booth locos are painted and lighted and run great. > 1. Overland FA-2 with real glass, diaphragm and 802's. > 2. overland S-1 with blunt trucks, and 802's > Both above are painted. brown top, yellow bottom, > red stripe and fully lettered. > 3. Scenery Unlimited gas-electric. [doodlebug] > painted pullmen green, fully lettered, 802's and > 4. Overland NE style wood caboose. Painted caboose red > and fully lettered, real glass, 802's, lighted interior > with lighted marker lights and a brakemen inside. > 5. Two AM hoppers custom painted and lettered with load > and 802's > 6. Two AM smooth side passenger cars cut down to 60 footers > paint matches FA-2 above. Lighted > 7. Two kit bashed passenger cars painted pullmen green. > Round harrimen style roofs. needs couplers. > All passenger cars have diaphragms > 8. Two AM reefers painted pullmen green an lettered for > milk service. > 9. One AM boxcar painted pullmen green and letered for REA. > Alls cars have 802's > > All above Shipped or bought to convention $1,800 > Seller with only sell as package > > Contact John Foley > e-mail foley164@... > Phone/fax 570 622-3413 > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3857	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: Re: Scale Decals

> Message: 18 > Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 16:45:26 -0700 > From: "Alice S. Beachy" <abeachy@...> > Subject: Lionel and scale decals. (SNIP) > Now for the good news. I found an S scale decal for a low sided Virginian Gondola at WWW.greatdecals.com If you want to see a picture check ebay #122269460. Check soon as this closes very early Sunday morning. We have the new Virginian G-5 Gon decal in stock. $4.19 each. We worked with Great Decals to get one done. The Rex gon is not 100% correct, but is about as close as we are going to see! Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3858	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: Brass Rail

I saw the comment once, but I think it worth repeating, the brass that AM uses now in their flex track is NOT like old style brass. I have seen no difference in performance between this brass alloy and NS. The NS is best for mainline because of its shine. Brass actually looks nice for sidings, as it emulates rail that does not see much traffic. Ron Bashista at AM will run NS if he gets enough orders for it. I suggest telling him your needs. Ask him if he'll run it again if he gets enough requests. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3859	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: Holiday Greetings

We are happy to have the additional free time of the holiday to get the railroad ready for our S friends. I have been spending time doing the scenery way deep in the Cannon Valley. To get to it, I take a ladder up to the top level of the layout and then crawl in to the back of the valley. Proof again of why you build strong benchwork. When it is done, five feet of scenery will go in front of it and I will never get back there again...Thank goodness. The progress I am most proud of is the scenic backdrop that Marilyn is painting. She has done sky, clouds and now a beautiful landscape, I doubt anyone will even look at the Cannon Valley. I stopped over at the Minnesota History Center today to check out the boxcar and get photos for Jeff. (they will be developed and sent off Tuesday Jeff.) They have a small display that directs people to the grain elevator-boxcar area. Inside the display is a Lionel 40' boxcar on three rail track. My gasp and subsequent gag attracted attention of the information staff and I offered to fix that display with some fine two rail track and a beautiful Minneapolis and St. Louis 3 bay hopper. While I think they were about to call security, the fact that my daughter was with me convinced them I was not dangerous. They gave me the name and number of the display coordinator. We will need to get this fixed before the convention! For those of you who think Minnesota is the land of perma frost, the ice is off the lakes and the trees are green. We hope you come see us.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3860	From: Lawrence and Jill Boul	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: Sorry

My apologies for including an entire digest with my last message.! :-( Lawrence

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3861	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Rail

> From: mhrreast@... > > I saw the comment once, but I think it worth > repeating, the brass that AM uses now in their > flex track is NOT like old style brass. Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. It is of course possible to vary the proportion of these metals to achieve an alloy that varies from reddish through yellow to almost silver. However, I'd be really curious as to how AM's brass is not like "old style brass." Ron may have switched to brass because of cost... Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3862	From: david s garber	Date: 7/3/1999
Subject: Chat room

How do you get there and at what time. Thanks D.S.G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3863	From: Don Thompson	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Re: Holiday Greetings

Dear Ken, Can Mike and I sleep in the Cannon Valley on Sunday evening? -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3864	From: kelvin white	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Signing off for a while

Greetings from this side of the pond - as I soon be on your side of the water - I'm signing off for three weeks - talk to you all in August. -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3865	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Repairing an AF 21004 0-6-0

Happy Fourth of July. I recently bought an AF 21004 0-6-0 and appreciated the recent string of messages about switchers. Tom, I was particularly interested in your comment about the armatures being vulnerable to be burned out. I presume this would be due to running at too high a voltage. Do you know what is too high a voltage for the 21004? My 21004 will need some TLC to put it in running shape and I�d like to ask some questions of the group to help me. I apologize for the length of this note, but I have a number of problems to fix with this engine and I do appreciate your help and forbearance. My first problem is that I don�t find an exploded drawing of the 21004/5 in the AF Service Manual. I do find parts lists for both engines. Has anyone seen a drawing? On my engine, the screw mounting (bosses?) in the boiler are stripped or broken away. Several weeks ago I read some messages about restoring screw holes using epoxy. I have tried this on another engine, and found that the epoxy patch was so hard that the screw could not cut threads in it, and split the patch away from the body. I read in the Nov/Dec 1990 Roundhouse about rebuilding screw bosses using styrene (ground up plastic from another engine) and solvent as a paste. Has anyone had success with this approach? There is no apparent way to attach the rear part of the chassis to the boiler. There are two broken out screw bosses on the inside of the boiler, just inside the start of the Belpaire boiler. However there is nothing on the chassis that mates with these. There are a pair of slots in the chassis casting facing out, located to either side of the gear that drives the smoke unit, that look like they might accept sheet metal tabs screwed to the boiler. Is this so, and what type of screws are used? On the front and rear drive wheels the tires are loose on the wheels. There is a bit of grease or oil in these spaces, and I presume I�ll have to pull the wheels to clean them before super gluing them together. Is there any solvent that I shouldn�t use around the Pulmor tires? One of the engine/tender wires has pulled out of the connecting plug. Is that wire held in the plug just by forcing the pin in against it? My front coupler is missing. From the parts lists I have and the exploded dwg. for the 21155 Docksider, I presume that the coupler/shoulder screw/leaf spring asembly for the 21004 is the same as for the Docksider. Is that so? This is my first engine that has the spring loaded power pickup shoes on the tender. Since it also has the axle wiping contact springs for power pickup, are the shoes necessary? The boiler front has been glued into the boiler with a clear glue/cement which looks like Duco cement. Since I can�t get the boiler front out to change the light bulb, I thought about trying to dissolve the cement with brake fluid. Any other suggestions? How was the boiler front originally attached to the boiler? Was it just a force fit? Thank you again for your indulgence and help. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3866	From: Chasbo86@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: vacation

Please remove my name from your list. I will be away for a while and don't want my mailbox filled to the brim. Will sign on again when I return. Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3867	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: 0-6-0

Roger: happy July 4th to you. The Yankees are whipping the American league like a rented mule, so I'm having my fun. Not sure about voltage -- it's tough to measure and give a precise figure. Go by smell. Every once in a while take the engine off the track and smell the motor. There is a big difference in smell between the hot grease aroma of a working engine and the toasting of the enamel on the armature coils. I would not give it more than 17 volts, measured at the transformer, and would try to keep it in the 12 to 15v range or less when possible. There are two drawings of a 5 digit motor in the current Roundhouse. One is an exploded view showing motor parts. We did extensively chew up the topic of busted up screw holes on s-list. Check out the archive. I no longer use the ground up plastic method because it can take weeks to harden. If you use epoxy, put the screw in while the epoxy is still soft. The problem here is that these screws may need to be unscrewed several times in the course of getting the engine running. These days, I prefer to attach pieces of 1/4" square styrene strip, predrilled with the proper diameter hole. The tough part of this is locating the styrene correctly so the hole is the right height and in the right location. The styrene is attached with liquid plastic cement applied with a pipette. Temax and plastic weld are 2 good brands of this cement. You have some missing boiler parts. The two rear screw holes are for black metal mounting tabs like all other Flyer steamers have, though these are a slightly different size from some others. Try the parts dealers for this part. if you can't find a pair, they are not that hard to make by cutting down scrap metal with a grinding wheel in an electric drill, or a bench grinder (wear safety goggles of course. Get someone to send you a tracing of the part. They are held in place by a thinner self tapping screw than the s230b screw used on plastic atlantics and pacifics. The screw is more like those used to hold the GP-7 body to its frame. These tabs go into the slots in the chassis. This loco is tricky to assemble and disassemble. You have to spread the body apart slightly with your fingers to get those tabs around the chassis slots and maybe loosen the tab screws a little too. This is why I wouldn't prefer using epoxy to repair these particular holes. My experience has been that in a restoration of this kind, I have to assemble and disassemble the loce several times, which would damage the epoxy. As to the loose rims, you can clean the area with mineral spirits and q-tips. Be sure to get all the min. spirits off before glueing. You can blow it off with an airbrush or even your breath. The best glue to use is slow zap or some other slow acting gap filling acc. This gives you a chance to spin the wheels and see that the tires are adjusted properly before the glue sets. If the tires are not on straight, the performance of the loco can be ruined. The slow set up time gives you a chance to get it right. The wire to the plug is fixed by pulling out the pin, stripping 1/8" or so off theend of the wire, inserting the wire, and pounding the pin home with a hammer (gently). All you need in front is (are) a hole coupler (no slot), a leaf spring, and a PA9288 screw. The pickup shoes are very helpful, esp. going thru crossing tracks. They may have to be bent a little to get them in perfect adjustment (I hope not though). The metal in them is very brittle, so if you have to bend them, do it slowly. Always remove them from the truck before bending or the truck will come apart. The boiler front problem is tricky. I can't think of a solvent that will dissolve Duco without dissolving the plastic too. Remember that this loco is painted black over black plastic, and brake fluid will take off the paint and lettering. I would cut through the glue around the boiler front and inside the boiler with an exacto knife and try to bust out the boiler front from the inside. Even if you break some plastic, you can glue it back together with luck. Old Duco can generally be pried away from plastic with the exacto knife. Work slowly, do a little at a time, and it helps to do it under magnification so you can really see what's going on. When you put the boiler front back in, use a thin piece of black vinyl tape to tighten the fit. It was just a force fit originally, which is why so many 0-6-0's are found with the front of the boiler broken. The fit was too forceful. So be careful with this area. And of course, have fun with it. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3868	From: FHRaab@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: AF track

July 1, 1999 I have a box or two of AF track. Some pieces have rusted rails and good ties. Others have rusted ties and good rails. Can anybody make use of it? You can have it for shipping. Frederick H. (Fritz) Raab 240 Staniford Road Burlington, VT 05401 Office Tel./Fax.: +1 (802) 655-9670 Home: +1 (802) 862-0997 E-mail: f.raab@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3869	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Brass Rail

> >My apologies for including an entire digest with my last message.! > >:-( > >Lawrence > Since this error keeps popping up once in a while, let me suggest an easy method of avoiding it. Go into the defaults of your e-mail software. Look for an option that says something like "Automatically quote original message with Reply." Turn this OFF! If you do want to quote a small amount of the previous text for context, use cut and paste. If you have software that DISPLAYS the reply message, you CAN quote, but delete most of it. I consider this wise even when replying to short messages. There is rarely a need to quote a whole message, it keeps message size down which also keeps web traffic down, and reduces the size of our archive files on our FREE Onelist host. The more space we take up on the web and on the host, the more expense we cause to our hosts, with the eventual possibility of driving up e-mail costs. >> From: mhrreast@... >> >> I saw the comment once, but I think it worth >> repeating, the brass that AM uses now in their >> flex track is NOT like old style brass. > >However, I'd be really curious as to how AM's brass is not like "old >style brass." Ron may have switched to brass because of cost... > >Dick Karnes I did not ask Ron what his formulation difference is, but he did tell me that he switched because of cost. He would have to charge 30% more for NS. I have not seen any tarnish/conductivity problem with his brass. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3870	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Re: Repairing an AF 21004 0-6-0

Roger, Good question, the type of stuff this list is useful for ask, no apologies are needed! Some easy ones first (easy 'cause their true on other stuff!) 1) Tender wires are held in by the brass pins. I usually heat the pin a bit with a soldering iron (clean one, so it doesn't deposit solder on the pin!) and pull straight out. Then you need to make certain the wire hole is clean, no old wire left in it. Strip about 1/8" of insulation off, insert it in the hole (green on engineer's side usually) and look in the pin hole to see if you can see "naked" wire in there! Then feel the pin into the hole (the pin has serration's on it, and you need to turn it a bit so they line up with the grooves they made in the plastic before) and gently push it back in, a little heat can help here too. WARNING the plastic plug body melts easily--don't slip! 2) Contacts on tender trucks. These were used on other engines too. They really help keep the two-step reverse unit from sequencing at the wrong times. It will run without them, though. 3) Loose tire fixes. Well, you're on the right track when you mentioned oil, etc. in there! With the chassis out of the loco, I have used non-lubricating tuner cleaner, followed up with alcohol (Shellac thinner). This stuff is very flammable, make sure you use it nowhere near any flame or hot surface!! When it burns by itself, it shows almost no flame, so can be even more dangerous!! The idea is to have the wheel parts as clean as possible, then put on the slow-acting "super-glue" and make sure everything is lined up before it sets! 4) I don't believe a factory exploded view was ever made of this engine, but I could be wrong (Tom, any info?). The parts lists are with the 21145 0-8-0 engine sheets. My engine has the usual late barrel commutator motor, don't see why it would be any more problem than the others. 5) Motor mounts on my engine are similar to other locos, "L" shaped stamped metal, but seem to be a bit smaller, the screws definitely are smaller! 6) Front coupler on mine is held in with a shouldered screw through the cylinder casting front as the 0-8-0 ones are. Appears to have the usual phosphor bronze centering spring like the Alcos and GP locos. 7) Boiler front is a press-fit, and I suspect one reason the boilers are often cracked or broken. I wouldn't try the brake fluid thing on this shell. My bulb holder is missing, so I don't know what they're like! They do take a small bulb though, not sure how "common" it is nowadays. 8) Repairs to screw holes. Well, when they're completely broken away, it's tough! The epoxy repair has worked for me, but my method of putting the screws in is different. After the patch has hardened, I drill the holes. Then take the screw, set it in place, hold it with a screwdriver, then put my soldering iron on the screw head/side and put gentle turning pressure on the screw. When the screw gets hot enough, it will melt it's way in "cutting" threads as it goes. Takes a lot of patience and bit of luck, and some practice! As soon as the screw starts going, I remove the iron, but as soon as the screw starts to resist turning, I put it back on. Once you've done it a few times, it's easier to do than describe! It's a great little loco, I wish *someone* would make some more!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3871	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Rail

I worked a brass once in the machine shop that was being used for a ware plate that was so hard that it had to be worked like tool steel. Larry Richard Karnes wrote: > From: Richard Karnes <karnesrn@...> > > > From: mhrreast@... > > > > I saw the comment once, but I think it worth > > repeating, the brass that AM uses now in their > > flex track is NOT like old style brass. > > Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. It is of course possible to vary the > proportion of these metals to achieve an alloy that varies from reddish > through yellow to almost silver. > > However, I'd be really curious as to how AM's brass is not like "old style > brass." Ron may have switched to brass because of cost... > > Dick Karnes > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Attention ONElist list owners! > http://www.onelist.com/info/news.html > Check out the new "DEFAULT MODERATED STATUS" option. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3872	From: Lawrence and Jill Boul	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: New Zealand Finescale page

Thanks to Paul Yorke for pointing out that Netscape Navigator did not like the web page below. Hopefully that has now been fixed. Apologies to all Netscape users. Lawrence -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lawrence and Jill Boul The hands and feet behind New Zealand Finescale http://www.inet.net.nz/~lawrenceandjill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3873	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: vacation

To all my friends and correspondents on S-list: I will be away for several weeks in pursuit of various teleosts and elasmobranchs. Have enjoyed exchanging methods, ideas and information with you all tremendously. Talk to you soon, Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3874	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/4/1999
Subject: Re: TRACKS AHEAD

Glenn Ritter wrote: > > > For several years I enjoyed Tracks Ahead on public TV, then > they were off for a year.Well now Tracks Ahead is back > on Sunday afternoon in our Philadelphia/Allentown area. Tracks Ahead is produced "every-other-year" so it's natural for your station not to carry it for a year. To find out more about Tracks Ahead online, go to: http://mptv.org/3rdseas.htm -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3875	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: TRACKS AHEAD AGAIN

If you weren't able to see this weeks telecast of TRACKS AHEAD, you may want to order this episode. It featured Frank Titman's "Spiral Hill" S scale layout with an interview with Frank. Most of you know Frank from the Herald days and through his Lehigh Valley Models, S scale buildings. I trust you had a safe July 4th and 5th. It was about 100 degrees in SE Pennsylvania. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3876	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: TRACKS AHEAD WEBPAGE

In case you missed Keith's posting, following is the website. Tracks Ahead is produced "every-other-year" so it's natural for your station not to carry it for a year. To find out more about Tracks Ahead online, go to: http://mptv.org/3rdseas.htm -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3877	From: michael prell	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: PBS Special

As an MCO for WPBS Television in Watertown, New York, I sometimes come across programs that make working in an empty building at night a pleasure. It was brought to my attention last evening(Because I aired the promo several times through out the night) that PBS is airing a wonderful special(probably a repeat; it's Summer) about a Colorado train ride. Check your local listings for time. It should be worth while watching. And, oh yes! Support YOUR local PBS station. They do really need you as much as you need it. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3878	From: Monte Miller	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: Re: PBS Special

Dear Michael, That is a good piece on PBS. I believe the one you are referring to is the one on the Silverton RR here in southwest Colorado and northwest New Mexico. I enjoy it everytime it runs. I believe I even managed to tape it off one of our local public stations. And while on PBS, don't worry about them receiving sufficient $$$ support. As a senior broadcaster, builder and seller of TV stations I can tell you money in general is no problem for the public stations. I know with all their telethons and fund raisers it is easy to get that impression. I have found over many years they buy the finest television broadcast equipment and money is never an issue. You may be right in the future however as with the DBS system, digital and all the other options a lot of the PBS program fare has been taken by other cable or DBS channels. We're finding the same in commercial broadcasting. I think it is really important that local signals, commercial or public be included with DBS. Certainly cable hasn't gone out of their way to help either of us. Who knows in the future where we will be. Good luck from a true S gauger, dating back to the late 1940's. Monte Miller, Vail, Colorado. ---------- >From: michael prell <mlprell@...> >To: toy trains <toytrains@...>, Paul York <S-Trains@onelist.com> >Subject: [S-Trains] PBS Special >Date: Mon, Jul 5, 1999, 11:35 AM > >From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > >As an MCO for WPBS Television in Watertown, New York, I sometimes come >across programs that make working in an empty building at night a >pleasure. It was brought to my attention last evening(Because I aired >the promo several times through out the night) that PBS is airing a >wonderful special(probably a repeat; it's Summer) about a Colorado >train ride. Check your local listings for time. It should be worth >while watching. And, oh yes! Support YOUR local PBS station. They do >really need you as much as you need it. > > >_________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >ONElist: the best source for group communications. >http://www.onelist.com >Join a new list today! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3879	From: david s garber	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Please take me off the list

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3880	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: Re: PBS Special

Why do they need it. Less than 3% of their funding comes from the general public and for what. Left leaning ideas and other garbage. But the do have some good train shows on. Larry michael prell wrote: > From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > > As an MCO for WPBS Television in Watertown, New York, I sometimes come > across programs that make working in an empty building at night a > pleasure. It was brought to my attention last evening(Because I aired > the promo several times through out the night) that PBS is airing a > wonderful special(probably a repeat; it's Summer) about a Colorado > train ride. Check your local listings for time. It should be worth > while watching. And, oh yes! Support YOUR local PBS station. They do > really need you as much as you need it. > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: the best source for group communications. > http://www.onelist.com > Join a new list today! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3881	From: michael prell	Date: 7/5/1999
Subject: Re: PBS Special

Since you've chosen to go public with your reply, (pun intended) you may not remember that PBS was the first (Pre-Cable) network to air programs such as Tracks Ahead and the like that one would nor ordinarily see any place else. Politically speaking, we're all free to watch and believe what ever we wish. Left or right or ever from Mars as my better half always reminds me about. Public funding may be a small percentage but it is needed. Too bad about state and Fed cutbacks. By the way, The Rockies by Rail is airing over Watertown PBS via pre-record. Local air only. Sorry. --- lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> wrote: > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > Why do they need it. Less than 3% of their funding > comes from the general > public and for what. Left leaning ideas and other > garbage. But the do have > some good train shows on. > Larry > > michael prell wrote: > > > From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > > > > As an MCO for WPBS Television in Watertown, New > York, I sometimes come > > across programs that make working in an empty > building at night a > > pleasure. It was brought to my attention last > evening(Because I aired > > the promo several times through out the night) > that PBS is airing a > > wonderful special(probably a repeat; it's Summer) > about a Colorado > > train ride. Check your local listings for time. It > should be worth > > while watching. And, oh yes! Support YOUR local > PBS station. They do > > really need you as much as you need it. > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Get your free @... address at > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > > > ONElist: the best source for group > communications. > > http://www.onelist.com > > Join a new list today! > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor > ---------------------------- > > ONElist: the best source for group communications. > http://www.onelist.com > Join a new list today! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3882	From: David Horn	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Lunatic fringe....

...now I know you're out there. I love eBay along with shows, dealers on the net or in person, catalogs, updated lists in the mail, in fact all the different ways there are to shop, sell, and learn about toy trains (especially postwar AF), but recently some sales on eBay have me amazed. A 313 lg motor for $356 when just a couple of months one that looked just as good went for ~$225, a 23976 w/o box and repro log went for $381 went recently two completely original with box sold for $346, and a LN 973 for $440.51! Wow. Must be hermits with more money than sense.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3883	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Re: Lunatic fringe....

Well, not to start a "major thread" but you missed the 307 that went for over a $100!!! (I forget, seems like it was $154). And summer-time is supposed to be the 'slack time' when train sales are bad...... S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3884	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: lunatic fringe part 3

Check item #113653582 Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3885	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Re: lunatic fringe part 3

If you look at the bid history, these bids were from unregistered users. So I think the whole auction was just a hoax. ;-) --jon > -----Original Message----- > From: Anormal1@... [SMTP:Anormal1@...] > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 1999 7:36 AM > To: s-trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] lunatic fringe part 3 > > From: Anormal1@... > > Check item #113653582 > > Mike S. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Attention ONElist list owners. > http://www.onelist.com > We've just added a "NO ATTACHMENTS" option. See homepage for details. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3886	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: 21105 Loco Question

Can anyone tell me if the model 21105 loco originally came with smoke and choo choo? Thanks, --jon > -----Original Message----- > From: jarcho@... [SMTP:jarcho@...] > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 1999 12:06 PM > To: S-trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] 0-6-0 > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > Roger: happy July 4th to you. The Yankees are whipping the American > league like a rented mule, so I'm having my fun. > > Not sure about voltage -- it's tough to measure and give a precise > figure. Go by smell. Every once in a while take the engine off the track > and smell the motor. There is a big difference in smell between the hot > grease aroma of a working engine and the toasting of the enamel on the > armature coils. I would not give it more than 17 volts, measured at the > transformer, and would try to keep it in the 12 to 15v range or less when > possible. > > There are two drawings of a 5 digit motor in the current Roundhouse. One > is an exploded view showing motor parts. > > We did extensively chew up the topic of busted up screw holes on s-list. > Check out the archive. I no longer use the ground up plastic method > because it can take weeks to harden. If you use epoxy, put the screw in > while the epoxy is still soft. The problem here is that these screws may > need to be unscrewed several times in the course of getting the engine > running. These days, I prefer to attach pieces of 1/4" square styrene > strip, predrilled with the proper diameter hole. The tough part of this > is > locating the styrene correctly so the hole is the right height and in the > right location. The styrene is attached with liquid plastic cement > applied > with a pipette. Temax and plastic weld are 2 good brands of this cement. > > You have some missing boiler parts. The two rear screw holes are for > black metal mounting tabs like all other Flyer steamers have, though these > are a slightly different size from some others. Try the parts dealers for > this part. if you can't find a pair, they are not that hard to make by > cutting down scrap metal with a grinding wheel in an electric drill, or a > bench grinder (wear safety goggles of course. Get someone to send you a > tracing of the part. They are held in place by a thinner self tapping > screw than the s230b screw used on plastic atlantics and pacifics. The > screw is more like those used to hold the GP-7 body to its frame. These > tabs go into the slots in the chassis. This loco is tricky to assemble > and > disassemble. You have to spread the body apart slightly with your fingers > to get those tabs around the chassis slots and maybe loosen the tab screws > a little too. This is why I wouldn't prefer using epoxy to repair these > particular holes. My experience has been that in a restoration of this > kind, I have to assemble and disassemble the loce several times, which > would damage the epoxy. > > As to the loose rims, you can clean the area with mineral spirits and > q-tips. Be sure to get all the min. spirits off before glueing. You can > blow it off with an airbrush or even your breath. The best glue to use is > slow zap or some other slow acting gap filling acc. This gives you a > chance to spin the wheels and see that the tires are adjusted properly > before the glue sets. If the tires are not on straight, the performance > of > the loco can be ruined. The slow set up time gives you a chance to get it > right. > > The wire to the plug is fixed by pulling out the pin, stripping 1/8" or so > off theend of the wire, inserting the wire, and pounding the pin home with > a hammer (gently). > > All you need in front is (are) a hole coupler (no slot), a leaf spring, > and > a PA9288 screw. > > The pickup shoes are very helpful, esp. going thru crossing tracks. They > may have to be bent a little to get them in perfect adjustment (I hope not > though). The metal in them is very brittle, so if you have to bend them, > do it slowly. Always remove them from the truck before bending or the > truck will come apart. > > The boiler front problem is tricky. I can't think of a solvent that will > dissolve Duco without dissolving the plastic too. Remember that this loco > is painted black over black plastic, and brake fluid will take off the > paint and lettering. > > I would cut through the glue around the boiler front and inside the boiler > with an exacto knife and try to bust out the boiler front from the inside. > Even if you break some plastic, you can glue it back together with luck. > Old Duco can generally be pried away from plastic with the exacto knife. > Work slowly, do a little at a time, and it helps to do it under > magnification so you can really see what's going on. When you put the > boiler front back in, use a thin piece of black vinyl tape to tighten the > fit. It was just a force fit originally, which is why so many 0-6-0's are > found with the front of the boiler broken. The fit was too forceful. So > be careful with this area. > > And of course, have fun with it. Tom Jarcho > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Looking to expand your world? > http://www.onelist.com > ONElist has 180,000 e-mail communities from which to choose! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3887	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Lunatic Fringe part3

I wrote the lady who put the items up for bid. She keeps in contact. I'll find out if she ever got her check. Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3888	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Re: Lunatic fringe....

--- David Dewey <djdewey@...> wrote: > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Well, not to start a "major thread" but you missed the 307 that went for > over a $100!!! (I forget, seems like it was $154). And summer-time is > supposed to be the 'slack time' when train sales are bad...... Here's a link to a 307 that went for 112.50: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=118143203 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3889	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Re: 21105 Loco Question

Marinello, Jon wrote: > From: "Marinello, Jon" <jon.marinello@...> > > Can anyone tell me if the model 21105 loco originally came with smoke and > choo choo? According to Greenberg Vol. 1, it did. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3890	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Plastic bits and pieces for project.

I plan on kitbashing down a Lionel car hauler from the late 1970s to S. Granted it carries 1-64 cars better that O anyway but... Where can I get styrene ladders, brake wheels and access ramps or reasonable substitutes? I went to a local hobby store and everything was "gasp" in HO. Since color matching has never been my strong suit, what color did SF use on the majority of there rolling stock? I believe it is a sort of flat, rustish red. Oh decals can't forget the SF decals, where can I obtain some? Also anyone have any spare American models trucks and AF compattable couplers? This car carries at least 15 Johnny Lightning Ford Broncos, now if I could only get a dozen Studebaker Larks or perhaps some 62 Chevy IIs. Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3891	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Re: Lunatic fringe....

One has to read between the lines here to see what is really happening. The LTI MoPac cars auction, item #113653582, was ruined by kids or jerks who signed up with bogus names, and made outrageous bids on no reserve items. They were reported because the seller would get one heck of a bill if they let the auction end, and didn't say anything. The usernames were then cancelled by the auction to prevent their further use. When you go to look now it seems that someone was able to bid without being registered, this is not possible. They were cancelled after the bids were made, and the unregistered status is now reflected. The 307 was grossly misrepresented as being Mint and Rare. This sort of misgrading is rampant in all categorys on the auctions, and frankly is beginning to tick me off. If people don't know how to grade or don't know what they are doing, they have no darn business auctioning off things. They either are really naieve, or just waiting for a pigeon. Bridgeman is in for a real suprise when the 307 gets there, and the dust is still all over it, and the lettering on the tender is rubbing off as was blatantly obvious in the blurry photo. I'd be more P/O'd than ever if I were him, but then again he was dumb enough to bid on it, and not know what he was doing. I e-mailed him and asked why he paid $112.50 for a loco that was worth only $40, and was NOT Mint or Rare, and he never answered. Probably should have e-mailed the seller and crabbed on his butt for a while. The 313 with large motor is a hard to find item. Although $356 is a tad bit high, its fairly close to what I've seen them for at York priced at $300 (large motor version). The Saw Mills are all $300 or better when I see them at shows anymore. Last York a seller had $400 on one in the box that was rough at best. It sold within an hour. Same for his Guilford Station with rust all over it that was priced at $450. Those prices are way too high given the condition, but accessories are golden, people want them, and are impatient about waiting for a nice one for their money for some reason. The 973 was LN, I mean perfecto, and deserved the price it brought. The seller had a ton of almost mint and mint items his dad bought in the 50's and just packed away. One example was a mint Defender Set that recently sold for $3,300.+ dollars. Still, the price is not that far off from typical big dealer prices at shows I've been to lately. At York the Milk Car was priced at $350 or more, more often than not, and many were not complete or nice in condition at all. The same went for the Erie Operating Box cars. I personally don't think these cars are worth more than about $150 to $200, but the pricing has been consistent at the $300+ range. This does show how far off Greenbergs is on their prices, especially on Accessories, and Operating Cars. I'd love to know what "Major Northeast Shows" they go to and see these prices. Thats a nickles worth... so we got a bonus...(S)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3892	From: Andy McBride	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Lunatic fringe ?

>From: Trains16@... > >The 307 was grossly misrepresented as >being Mint and Rare. This sort of misgrading is rampant in all categorys on >the auctions, and frankly is beginning to tick me off. If people don't know >how to grade or don't know what they are doing, they have no darn business >auctioning off things. They either are really naieve, or just waiting for a >pigeon. Bridgeman is in for a real suprise when the 307 gets there, and the >dust is still all over it, and the lettering on the tender is rubbing off as >was blatantly obvious in the blurry photo. I'd be more P/O'd than ever if I >were him, but then again he was dumb enough to bid on it, and not know what >he was doing. I e-mailed him and asked why he paid $112.50 for a loco that >was worth only $40, and was NOT Mint or Rare, and he never answered. Probably >should have e-mailed the seller and crabbed on his butt for a while. I have to admit I've been frustrated by e-Bay as well. I recently bought a "mint" K5 that was actually the result of a poor restoration (among other things the drawbar had been broken in half and super glued back together). With that said let me also say I was uncomfortable with the tone of your e-mail. We all need to remember that e-Bay is not a professional auction. It's made up of amateur sellers and buyers and that's the magic of it. People are digging out their old American Flyer trains from the attic and selling them on e-Bay because for the first time they have an easy opportunity to do so. They don't have to worry about taking it to a dealer who may or may not give them a fair price. The result is for collectors, and operators, there's a lot of neat stuff showing up for sale. People are also getting into the hobby for the first time thanks to e-Bay. I have a friend who found his childhood set for sale and since then has been a e-Bay fiend. In the past he's never had time to go out to shows around the state or hobby shops trying to track down equipment. With e-Bay it's easy for him and now there's one more S-gauge hobbyist out there. Think about this: A guys digs out his boyhood Flyer and decides he wants to get into it again. If he goes to the average hobby shop he's liable to hear that S-gague isn't a popular scale because the old Flyer isn't made anymore and everybody is in HO etc. If he instead chooses to checks out e-Bay he'll find thousands of neat things still on the market proving that S-gague is still a vibrant part of the model railroad marketplace. I think you'll find also that many of the folks on e-Bay aren't as "naive" as you might think. Many of them are more interested in finding the piece they're looking for rather then finding it at a good price. They want it and they want it now. They don't want to have to spend weeks or even months calling hobby shops and surfing the net for their query at the right price. They're not that kind of hobbyist and that's okay. The s-gague hobby is entirely too small. The last thing we want to do is scare new hobbyist away by calling them "dumb" or "naive" or "crabbing on there butt." Andy McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3893	From: D Simon	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: 314AW whistle controller

Hi all I am tring to find an original whistle controller for my 314aw. if you have an extra or know where I might find one please let me know. Yes I know they are hard ( next to impossible) but I am still tring Thanks alot Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3894	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: Re: Lunatic fringe ?

My alleged tone has nothing to do with the problem at hand, and should give no one reason to be uncomfortable with it. Its what you read into it. Lets not get into the politically correct garbage, please. The misrepresentation irritates me, I think that got that across if I sounded upset, so my writing was effective as intended.... Correct, E-Bay does in fact have no control over how the items are represented, by novices or by people in the know. It makes no difference if they did or not, if its misgraded and/or misrepresented constantly, its wrong, period, and I can't speak for anyone else, but I am getting tired of it. Its taken the fun out of the forum.Take the example of these so called newbies, how are they going to feel, being naieve, or in the know, and buying something advertised as Mint, expecting something Mint, and getting garbage??? They will eventually leave the hobby thinking they cannot get the equipment they need without getting ripped off. That is far more detremental than saying then maybe they must be naieve or plain dumb. I was simply assuming a possible explanation. I call it like it is. I do agree though that some may not be so naieve, but sly like a fox. It may mostly be these 'newer' buyers in the example given, that may not be as informed as someone more seasoned to the hobby, agreed. Their best defense is to learn as much as they can, know what your looking at. It amazes me how many folks bid high, or at all, on items listed as mint. Many times its so obvious the item is not mint. Its amazing how many buyers seem not to know how rare a truly mint item really is. When ever I see 'Mint' in the description, a red warning flag goes up immediately, as it should for anyone. These items are just not out there in the quantity remotely close to the number showing up constantly on auctions. They are scarce. My beef wasn't with the buyers, my disbelief was. The beef was with the sellers who misrepresent the items constantly. Novice or not, once they get the money, thats all she wrote. They don't care either way. However, a true novice seller will usually say right up front they know nothing about trains. Either way, its not right, and if everyone sits passively by and does nothing, then it will continue. I like E-Bay, its been good for me, and helped me get thru some hard times when I needed money. But I surely never overgraded or misrepresented anything, and I did just fine. These days I do refrain from buying, no matter how much stuff is listed. I just cannot trust the descriptions, and even the photos. Maybe if Lyn'L got off their duff, and made some nice stuff, instead of the same old same old, and reducing the quality while raising the price, then we could attract new comers. If the younger prospects do not see the sets and equipment in the stores like the HO, and N equipment is, then they won't even know our fine trains exist, let alone join in for the fun. Hows that for a crabfest...?? (S)....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3895	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/6/1999
Subject: e-bay et alii

my $.02 worth-people who are buying from e-bay, and are subscribing to this, the TCA, or any other list of train heads have a recourse before buying-ASK US! from the number of comments on rarity, pricing etc, it seems that we have a good proportion of seasoned buyers here.Many of us have items we would like to sell, or know a third party who does. So a "newbie" buyer can bounce a price off this list-items seem to be posted as soon as they are sent, so the risk of the time running out on a sale before a question is answered seems remote-to me, anyway.I can't believe that someone would prefer to purchase blind when he can get a referral to, say, Doug or Marty-both of whom are blessed with integrity(or is it we who are blessed for knowing these gents?)-and be assured that he will get what he is paying for.And these fellows have a VARIETY of American Flyer, not one or two pcs. that probably were in Uncle Elmo's basement during the "55 flood(but,yes indeedy-do,They're MINT!! SEz so right here!!) And let us not forget the "in your face" variety of crooks we know-my favorite is in West Haven,CT(I love to go in his store and bust his chops every so often) - who (and I'm not making this up) has a tenderless 302, a rusted and bent drivered 21085, and one of those really rare marx 666 engines lovingly wrapped in plastic bags, wearing price tags of $110,$265,and $300 (Remember!! Everything is HALF OFF!!). I would assume that this sort of crap eventually finds its way to e-bay,if only because NOT seeing is believing(he actually told me that he had fixed the 302 so it ran and reversed without the tender.uh,huh!)So anyone who is on this list and isn't sure about an e-bay item should post a query first-not all(or even many ) of us are so cynical as to sit and wait to hear about your nifty $115 307 with only a little rub on the lettering. We should try to educate the newcomers, not ridicule them-where is the brotherhood in that?And, if we help keep Doug and Marty and guys like them busy, they will be around years from now for all of us. - john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3896	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Train demolition derby on Ebay

Here is the description for a couple of 21165's that are being auctioned on Ebay that I found amusing. WAIT, BEFORE YOU CLICK OFF. DID YOU KNOW THAT BOTH THESE ENGINES HAVE THE LATE MODEL REVERSE UNIT THAT CAN BE USED ON ALL LATE REVERSE IN CAB ENGINES AND MANY DIESELS. GREAT PARTS, ANOTHER GREAT IDEA IS TO LET YOUR SON STAGE THE GREAT TRAIN WRECK WITH THESE INSTEAD OF YOUR ENGINES. I REMEMBER WELL RUNNING MY 290 AT MY BROTHERS 372 UP GP-7 AND SEEING WHICH ONE WOULD KNOCK THE OTHER OFF THE TRACK. GREAT FUN IN 1957. THEY BOTH RUN ONE HAS A PM COUPLER AND THE OTHER HAS A KC. THREE DAY AUCTION WITH NO RESERVE. BUYER PAYS $5.00 SHIPPING AND TRACKING. GOOD LUCK, NOEL......... The current high bid is 31.00 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=126962056 P.S. I wonder what they got for the 290 and the 372? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3897	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Re: Train demolition derby on Ebay

I have to admit I never had a desire to own a 21165, but they might be worth buying some time for a reversing unit. :) Somehow though, it seems a crime to disassemble a 40 year old loco for parts, even if you don't like the piece. I have noticed that engines on eBay often get more money if you take them apart! Remove the works from the shell, disassemble and spread all over a big table. Better yet, sell the shell separately, then the wheels, and people really like a good tender! I recently bid on some 336 wheels, but gave up when they went for something like $80.00. Way too much just for a new set of tires. :) As someone who has a love for AF trains, I can't bring myself to disassemble my them into pieces and part it out to get more money at sale time. Doesn't seem right, does it? Scott Holm wrote: > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > Here is the description for a couple of 21165's that are being auctioned on Ebay that I found > amusing.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3898	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Re: e-bay et alii

Seems like eBay continues to come up. I have some real nice stuff I have bought on eBay. For instance, I am looking at a nearly mint AF 346 I bought there a few months ago. Paid less than the Greenberg E price, and then again, I havn't seem any 346 for sale anywhere else anyway, but of course I am way down here in Florida. :) If I hadn't found it on eBay, I probably wouldn't own it. I don't like buying stuff sight unseen; at least with eBay you often have some pictures, though they do vary in quality. Have never bought anything yet though off a text based price list that just says something like... "360/364 chrome, VG+, real nice $250.00" . Internet based train sellers could learn a lot from eBay. Lets have better descriptions and pictures please! It is a lot harder to resist buying if you actually can see that AF gem!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3899	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Re: Lunatic fringe ?

It is worth mentioning that if you hang around eBay American Flyers listings much, you will start to recognize many of the same usernames buying and selling from each other. There are many usernames from eBay that I see posting to this list as well. These people, (we, I include myself) are known to each other. A lot of transactions are taking place this way. I may sell this week to someone who I may buy from next month. You start to know who is safe and who can be trusted, and who is not. There are dozens of usernames I see in the AF area that I would buy from without the slightest concern because I know from prior contact that they are honest. The other thing to remember, is that many of the pieces are sold by people who are not train collectors. They are antique dealers or people selling an old family treasure. If someone like this says that the loco is in Excellent condition, they don't necessarily mean TCA E condition. We didn't invent the term "Excellent"; it existed before toy trains. If we never bought from people who are not knowledgable train people, we would pass up a lot of good finds. Descriptions need to be taken with a grain of salt, depending on who is giving it. Most sellers encourage questions; when we don't ask and receive an unpleasant surprise we ourselves are partly at fault. I don't think there are many sellers on eBay in the AF section that are deliberately dishonest. It happens, but not all that often. Just my opinion...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3900	From: Don652@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: purchases

John, I have just returned to my boyhood trains after about 45 years in the attic and have purchased some pieces of equipment from Doug and have been very satisfied with everything. Let's try to help these guys out. Don Bitting Harrisburg,Pa.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3901	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Re: MD & VA shows this weekend

There are two shows this weekend, one in Upper Marlboro, Maryland and the other in Chantilly, VA. Can someone give me information as to time and place? Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3902	From: Don Abrams	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: ebay -- again

All, I've been following the recent ebay comments closely as I think I'll give it a shot too and do some selling. When I sell on ebay it will be as a TCA member. I'll grade fairly, take the best possible photos, and describe all known defects. I'd like to make new friends just as I've done at my table over the years at local meets. I'm down to about one table's worth of stuff and I don't want to lug it around for another season. All the local Flyer collectors are on a first name basis and they've already bought what they want from my thin out stuff. Since I don't travel, ebay should be just the ticket. As far as buying on ebay, I've only bought two items in the last year and a half. The prices do seem to get unbelievable at times. I remember a 332 going for over $1,000.00. My collection is very small and modest, but if I ever see exactly what I'm looking for I'll probably pay "too much". Here's a true ebay story, one I haven't seen on the S-trains list. It happened to me and is another reason I might as well become an ebay seller. A Flyer collecting gentleman who's bought many items from my table over the years negotiated a very fair price on accessory which was in good to very good condition, but was missing a couple of easily obtainable repro parts. Two days later there it was on ebay and when I researched the seller -- guess who? I followed the auction and saw that he made a whopping $1.01!!! I guess I'll just list it on ebay myself and save him the trouble? Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3903	From: Don652@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: PURCHASES

Doug Peck of Port Lines Hobbies at portlines@... has catalogs he can send you . Don Bitting

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3904	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: 21105

No, the 21105 did not come with smoke or choo-choo. the 21105 was the second engine I received, and that was in 1958. Steve Pendleton besofbreed@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3905	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: 314AW

I am blessed to own a 314AW whistle controller. That's the good news. The bad news is, it doesn't operate the whistle in the tender of the 314AW. Anyone have any suggestions on how I can diagnose the problem? Does Radio shack, or anyone else, carry replacement electronic components? Thanks. Steve Pendleton bestofbreed@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3906	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Re: 21105 Loco Question

Yes Jon, it did come with Smoke & Choo Choo. Its the 5 didgit version of the 303 with the quick disconnect tender and two step reverse. Cataloged in 1957 & 1958.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3907	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Repainting Matchbox & Hot Wheels

Hello all-- I just found some nifty Matchbox and Hot Wheels cars to add to the layout. (Yeah, they're a bit on the small side, but they're affordable.) I'm sure most of you have developed some interesting methods of "taming" those wild paint schemes. This might be somewhat off-topic...consider it a diversion from the eBay subject! (Yes, I have some "beefs" of my own!) What's the best way to remove the Hot Wheels decals without damaging the paint underneath? When repainting, do you usually disassemble the car to facilitate repainting the shell? If so, what's the easiest way to remove the chassis from the body? How do you put it back together? If you mask the car instead of disassembling, what do you use to mask the windows? How well do Testor's Acrylic paints work for these cars? In considering some "city scenery" for the layout -- has anyone looked at some of those Hot Wheels activity sets -- the ones that come with roads, etc? (Obviously I spent some time inside Toys R Us today!) I'm wanting to build a "toy" layout (in the true sense of "plastic-plate") and some of these sets look like they'd be quite nifty on the layout with a little repainting to tone down those day-glo colors. Us "poor folk" have to find alternatives to those $80 dented, rusty and scratched AF accessories from eBay! <grin> -=[ Brian ]=- _______________________________________________________ If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes. _______________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3908	From: The Reis'	Date: 7/7/1999
Subject: Re: Repainting Matchbox & Hot Wheels

Brian: I have taken apart a lot of Hot wheels and Matchbox cars for repainting. I haven't had very much luck taking off the stripes, etc except for acetone type finger nail polish remover on a q-tip which is still a lot of work. To get them apart drill out the 2 "rivets" at the base. I do this with a moto-tool with a drill bit. Drill just enough to get the chassis to come loose. Repaint the shell and reassemble using 2 part epoxy where it was held together before. Many times people use Rit die to change the colors of the cars (leaving assembled), This is really popular on the milk trucks and others which are white. I've been told they do this in the microwave making sure the car is completely under the die solution in a plastic container but I haven't tried it, so thats an "at your own risk" This tints the car and the clear plastic windows and can look good. Most any paint seems to work fine on them. What's nice is that you can try it out on the junkers from a garage sale and work up to better ones if you want. eric reis kenmore, wa. -----Original Message----- From: Brian Johns <bljohns@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 9:53 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Repainting Matchbox & Hot Wheels >From: "Brian Johns" <bljohns@...> > >Hello all-- > >I just found some nifty Matchbox and Hot Wheels cars to add to the layout. >(Yeah, they're a bit on the small side, but they're affordable.) > >I'm sure most of you have developed some interesting methods of "taming" >those wild paint schemes. This might be somewhat off-topic...consider it a >diversion from the eBay subject! (Yes, I have some "beefs" of my own!) > >What's the best way to remove the Hot Wheels decals without damaging the >paint underneath? > >When repainting, do you usually disassemble the car to facilitate repainting >the shell? If so, what's the easiest way to remove the chassis from the >body? How do you put it back together? > >If you mask the car instead of disassembling, what do you use to mask the >windows? > >How well do Testor's Acrylic paints work for these cars? > >In considering some "city scenery" for the layout -- has anyone looked at >some of those Hot Wheels activity sets -- the ones that come with roads, >etc? (Obviously I spent some time inside Toys R Us today!) I'm wanting to >build a "toy" layout (in the true sense of "plastic-plate") and some of >these sets look like they'd be quite nifty on the layout with a little >repainting to tone down those day-glo colors. > >Us "poor folk" have to find alternatives to those $80 dented, rusty and >scratched AF accessories from eBay! <grin> > > >-=[ Brian ]=- > >_______________________________________________________ >If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes. >_______________________________________________________ > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Attention ONElist list owners. >http://www.onelist.com >We've just added a "NO ATTACHMENTS" option. See homepage for details. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3909	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: Fwd: [Proto64] Estate S Items For Sale

FYI From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) Reply-To: Proto64@onelist.com To: sfinescale@onelist, com@..., proto64@onelist.com Subject: [Proto64] Estate S Items For Sale Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 01:43:49 -0700 From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) Most of you on these lists either new Micheal Elkin or read about his untimely passing in one of the S magazines. I would just like to pass on the information that his S scale model railroad equipment is for sale by The Original Whistle Stop in Pasadena, CA. To review what is for sale, go to "www.thewhistlestop.com". Click on "The Original Whistle Stop", and then on the web page that comes up, go to the Store Catalog, and click on browse "Other Scales". From there click on "S", and scroll through the S section. The brass and car kits are Michael's. There is an A & B FT set, D&RGW SD40-T2, SD-9, SD50, GP-30, and other brass listed along with some Pacific Rail Shops and S-Helper Service cars. Hope you can find something you have been looking for. Lee Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3910	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: Re: Repainting Matchbox & Hot Wheels

There was an article in one of last year's S-Gaugian about modifying these types of cars to make them look more realistic. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3911	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: Re: 314AW

Try running the engine on DC, the horn should sound continuously. If it doesn't, the problem is with the horn. The Greenburg AF repair and operating manual gives a schematic for making a 314AW whistle control with a diode, a capacitor, and a STDP switch. Don't know if this is exactly what's in an original 314AW control, but should be close, so you could either make a new one or replace one or more of the components in the 314AW control. I made a control for a Lionel AF engine, which uses the same principle of using a DC signal to activate the horn. It works, but the horn sounds really sick. Anybody know how to get it to sound better? --- Steve & Cathy Pendleton <bestofbreed@...> wrote: > From: "Steve & Cathy Pendleton" <bestofbreed@...> > > I am blessed to own a 314AW whistle controller. That's the good news. The > bad news is, it doesn't operate the whistle in the tender of the 314AW. > Anyone have any suggestions on how I can diagnose the problem? Does Radio > shack, or anyone else, carry replacement electronic components? Thanks. > > Steve Pendleton _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3912	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: steve's sick LTI Flyer horn

Steve-the best way to hear your LTI Flyer horns is to buy their whistle controller.It's around $12. If you have any Railsounds B units, you'll need 2 of them to be able to use both horn and bell. Using one controller will give you either horn or bell, but not both.You can, however, change the direction of the B (therefore changing polarity of the DC pulse) to select which sound you want.The LTI horns, BTW, emit a loud, rather high pitched BEEEEEEEP.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3913	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: LTI Flyer

In a message dated 7/8/99 11:43:13 AM, Toyguy5344@... writes: << -the best way to hear your LTI Flyer horns is to buy their whistle controller.It's around $12. If you have any Railsounds B units, you'll need 2 of them to be able to use both horn and bell. >> You all may not want to 'hear' this, but the best way to run LTI Flyer is with a Lionel Power Master and Power House combo (or the new ZW). Operationally, those with a lot of LTI Flyer will make out better with the new sources rather than with most of the vintage Gilbert transformers. There are a number of advantages which include: 1. Sound activation is much more fool proof and because there are dedicated horn/whistle and bell buttons on the Power Master, you get bidirectional control of the Railsounds. 2. The can motors run more smoothly because of the filtered supply and the way the AC wave is shaped. You also will have 0-15v variable supply which prevents the 7 volt 'lurch' which invariably happens with LTI stuff using many Gilbert 7-15v variable sources. I use traditional Gilbert transformers (Glory be - a 30B!) for my S gauge because I am a 'strict tinplate reconstructionist', but I have some newer Lionel supplies for other purposes and have tried operating LTI AF with them with great success. Now, all you will have to do is cover up that darn green Lionel light logo with black tape. Try it. Those of you with LTI AF will probably like it. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3914	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: Re: steve's sick LTI Flyer horn

--- Toyguy5344@... wrote: > From: Toyguy5344@... > > Steve-the best way to hear your LTI Flyer horns is to buy > their whistle > controller.It's around $12. It's Scott, by the way. After having returned a $45 Lionel whistle controller that made the LTI AF horn sound sick, I don't have much confidence that the $12 one will make it sound any different. I can make it sound just as bad with Barker's 314AW controller. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3915	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: S-Trains will return

There was a major blowout at trainweb.org, the server that is kind enough to support the S-Trains web site. I am rebuilding the site, as I type this note. I hope to have it up and running in the next couple of hours. The other day before it went down I had added some new features. I will send out a note telling you about them when the site is back up and running. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3916	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: Re: S-Trains Archives and Show this weekend

I'm trying to get the time and place of the show John Foley mentioned is happening this weekend (7/10 and 7/11) in Upper Marlboro, MD, if I recall correctly. Does anyone have this information? Also, I tried to look at old digests of the S-Trains list at www.trainweb.org, which is listed in the byline of this digest, but I couldn't get anywhere. How should I look up the archives? Thanks, Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3917	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/8/1999
Subject: Re: S-Trains Archives

--- Peter Ervin <pjervin@...> wrote: > Also, I tried to look at old digests of the S-Trains list at www.trainweb.org, which is listed in the byline of this digest, but I couldn't get anywhere. How should I look up the archives? The archives are at the onelist web site: http://www.onelist.com/arcindex.cgi?listname=S%2DTrains _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3918	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: READING MATERIAL

I heard a couple of years ago that the NASG Dispatch was published so as not to coincide with the S-Gaugian. Well yesterday morning I thought I had not seen a train magazine for some time. Yesterday afternoon I received the June Dispatch and July/August S-Gaugian in the same mailing. Nice timing. I also received this week a beautiful 12 page 10th anniversary issue of the South Jersey S Gaugers "Waybill". This is also great reading if you can get a copy. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3919	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Chantilly and UMarlboro shows

Greenberg at Chantilly Sat and Sun 7/10, 7/11, and GATS at Upper Marlboro same days. Believe both shows hours are 11-5 Sat, 11-4 Sun. Try these two sites for more info. http://www.gats.com/index.html http://www.kalmbach.com/greenberg/index.html PS I think the Chantilly show will have two S-Gauge layouts - - Baltilmore area AF Club and another AF club - - double the fun! What a treat, usually there's only layouts of "all the other" gauge/scales.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3920	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: 21004 rivets

While disassembling my 21004, a couple of small rivets/eyelets fell out and I couldn't tell where they came from. The only place I could guess was that they might have been in the end of the brush springs. Does anybody know if this is so? Does this improve conductivity to the brush? Which end of the spring would they go on? Or am I all wet and do these eyelets go somewhere else on the 21004? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3921	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Re: 21004 rivets

Scott, those little brass eyelets went in the ends of the brush springs. They were "supposed" to improve conductivity. They go in the end away from the commutator. Good luck... Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3922	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Plasticville Airport terminal

Is there such a thing as an S-sized Plasticville Airport terminal building,(which has a control tower) or is the only version the O-gauge that's currently available? Would the O-gauge terminal look ok next to the old Plasticville airport hanger or is it a drastically different size? _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @... address at http://mail.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3923	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville Airport terminal

In a message dated 7/9/99 12:27:55 PM, imsscott@... writes: << Is there such a thing as an S-sized Plasticville Airport terminal building,(which has a control tower) or is the only version the O-gauge that's currently available? Would the O-gauge terminal look ok next to the old Plasticville airport hanger or is it a drastically different size? >> Most all Plasticville (non-HO) is much closer to S scale than O. The terminal will look OK next to their hanger. Actually both buildings are too small for S scale, too, if one is going to be fussy, but both will be OK within a toy train scheme. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3924	From: Don Thompson	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville Airport terminal

Dear Scott and RB, I have two of the hangers on my layout. My friend Vic Roseman converted them into bus garages and they look supper. > > << Is there such a thing as an S-sized Plasticville Airport > terminal building,(which has a control tower) or is the > only version the O-gauge that's currently available? Would > the O-gauge terminal look ok next to the old Plasticville > airport hanger or is it a drastically different size? >> > > Most all Plasticville (non-HO) is much closer to S scale than O. The > terminal will look OK next to their hanger. Actually both buildings are too > small for S scale, too, if one is going to be fussy, but both will be OK > within a toy train scheme. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3925	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville Airport terminal

Scott, the Plasticville buildings were made for Ho, and O/S. The new reissues for O/S are the same size as the originals, they just changed many of the colors. They go well with both O and S as the size is compatible, but not perfect to absolute scale to either size.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3926	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: Narrow gauge Mikado in S?

I see where Athearn (HO) will be offering a USRA light mikado in HO. A quick check shows these with 64 inch drivers and 26x30 cylinders. Transposing the prototype to HO and then to S results in 47 inch drivers and 19x22 cylinders in S. EBT# 14 and 15 had 48 inch drivers and 19x24 inch cylinders. Awfully close for someone who normally runs oversize flanges anyway. A ready-made mechanism for Sn30. Now, I know that this group will take this tidbit and run with it. I submit this hoping to see some discussion on what would be needed to make such a conversion. With hoppers available from Bill's Train Shop, and readily accessible track components, maybe this will be a way to expand the narrow-minded. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3927	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/9/1999
Subject: S-Trains Webpage is back up

I think S-Trains is all back up. Please poke around and help me figure out what I missed. (link is in my signature file) -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3928	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: Chantilly Show

David Horn thought there would be two S layouts at Greenberg show at Chantilly. Actually, the Baltimore Area American Flyer Club and the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers will be running a giant combined layout. Has any other two clubs tried this before? What a challange. Come by to see us. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3929	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: set #20123 &Field magnets

HI, Does anyone know what made up the set #20123 Also does anyone have any "dead" field magnets that they would like to donate to see if I could increase there field strength. I'll take as many as I Can as long as postage isn't a big issue. If it works out Imay be able to remedy this. M. Strickland 6673Foothill Blvd. Tujunga, Ca. 91042

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3930	From: Trish Snook	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: New address for Sunny Creek Models

Hi all After some brain mumbing training in Microsoft Networking (yes an oxymoron some would say!!) have finally got my (and the wife's and kids' email addresses ) sorted out and working properly...encouraging that an IT engineer takes so long to do it!!!!!!...but is there ever enough hours to the day. The street address remains the same at: 13 McAlister St Frankston, Victoria AUSTRALIA 3199 But new eMail richard_snook@... (please note underscore separating names..it doesn't show up tooo well on some clients that automatically create the link ) Seems like many are having a ball at the shows...some intersting news seems to be coming from them..some nice surprises. Well back to the grind stone Cheers >:~)) Richard Sunny Creek Models

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3931	From: Dave Heine	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Narrow gauge Mikado in S?

Actually, that's a ready made mechanism for Sn42 not Sn30. HO works out Sn42, but TT (or HOm) works out to Sn30. I've been planning to check one out when I see it. The other question I have is how hard would it be to narrow the gauge to Sn3. Of course you can wait until Bill Wade brings out his brass 2-8-2's. Dave Heine ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan C Udy <nsupbnsf@...> To: <S-Trains@onelist.com> Sent: Friday, July 09, 1999 5:00 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Narrow gauge Mikado in S? > From: Alan C Udy <nsupbnsf@...> > > I see where Athearn (HO) will be offering a USRA light mikado in HO. A > quick check shows these with 64 inch drivers and 26x30 cylinders. > Transposing the prototype to HO and then to S results in 47 inch drivers > and 19x22 cylinders in S. > > EBT# 14 and 15 had 48 inch drivers and 19x24 inch cylinders. Awfully > close for someone who normally runs oversize flanges anyway. A > ready-made mechanism for Sn30. > > Now, I know that this group will take this tidbit and run with it. I > submit this hoping to see some discussion on what would be needed to make > such a conversion. With hoppers available from Bill's Train Shop, and > readily accessible track components, maybe this will be a way to expand > the narrow-minded. > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3932	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: Tracks Way Ahead

> 1. TRACKS AHEAD AGAIN > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > 2. TRACKS AHEAD WEBPAGE > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > 3. PBS Special > From: michael prell <mlprell@...> Many thanks for the alert RE: upcoming TV specials. I do NOT read my TV guide or monthly PBS schedule to find out what is coming up, so I greatly appreciate those of you who alert us to upcoming goodies. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3933	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: Auto Rack Loads

>This car carries at least 15 Johnny Lightning Ford Broncos, now if I could >only get a dozen Studebaker Larks or perhaps some 62 Chevy IIs. > >Jeff Tangeman Jeeps make a nice load because they vary so little from year to year, and they are light so the rack does not get heavy, they are popular with Matchbox, Hot Wheels, etc. so they are relatively easy to find, and not expensive. VW bugs would be good for similar reasons. I have been looking for a Lionel auto rack for years at shows, and have yet to find one, so I'm not of the persuasion that they are easy to find. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3934	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 7/10/1999
Subject: How many drops?

I'm sure this has been asked before but here goes... What is the correct number of liquid smoke drops to use in an A.F. locomotive? Thanks, --jon ------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Marinello PulsePoint Communications (805) 566-2000 Email jon.marinello@... Web: http://www.plpt.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3935	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: Re: How many drops?

My recllection is the instructions said 5 drops. Chuck Smith NASG, RASG, TCA, TTCS, Chemung Valley Lines -----Original Message----- From: Marinello, Jon <jon.marinello@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Saturday, July 10, 1999 11:45 PM Subject: [S-Trains] How many drops? >From: "Marinello, Jon" <jon.marinello@...> > >I'm sure this has been asked before but here goes... > >What is the correct number of liquid smoke drops to use in an A.F. >locomotive? > >Thanks, > >--jon > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Jon Marinello >PulsePoint Communications >(805) 566-2000 >Email jon.marinello@... >Web: http://www.plpt.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >ONElist: your connection to like-minds and kindred spirits. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3936	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: AF Compatable Sound Systems

Yesterday I visited a couple of train stores in the LA area and heard some of the newer sound systems. Pretty cool! The traditional AF sound systems (Diesel Roar, Whistles, Diesel Horn, etc.) are pretty weak by today's standards. What newer or state-of-the-art sound systems are available today that are compatible with AF AC current. Are there any that can be modified to work with AF. Or do you have to convert to DC to use these systems? --jon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3937	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: Re: AF Compatable Sound Systems

I am an Electronic Tech by trade, and have been considering that it ought to be possible to send audio recording of various train sounds thru the tracks of an AF AC system, and have them come out the original AF speakers leaving the AF pieces unmodified. Has anyone ever done / tried this. I wouldn't want to re-invent the wheel... "Marinello, Jon" wrote: > > > Are there any that can be modified to work with AF. Or do you have to > convert to DC to use these systems?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3938	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: the right stuff

Two quick questions for the list. 1) Does anyone have any experience running hi-rail AM and S-HS equipment (locomotives particularly) on a Flyer floor layout? Do these engines operate as well as AF equipment or do they experience a higher percentage of derailments and other operating problems? 2) Is anyone on this list a member of a Bay Area AF/hi-railers group? Or can someone supply me with a phone number or e-mail address for someone who belongs to such a group? Actually I met a Bay Area hi-railer selling AF and AM products at a show in the north bay a few months ago. But like many model railroaders I've met since I joined the hobby a few months ago, he seemed stand-offish, even reluctant to discuss the group he belonged to. Sadly, I've experienced this kind of "in-crowd" attitude more than a few times at model railroad shows. As a friend of mine says, "Model railroaders sometimes act like its a private club with special rules even *they* don't always understand." If this is true, it strikes me as an effective way to make sure our hobby atrophies and dies out. On the other hand, this list has been a wonderful experience for me, a constant source of helpful advice and good cheer. *That,* if you ask me, is more important to the growth and sustenance of our hobby than all the rolling stock, magazines and swap meets in the world. Paul Schneider San Francisco, CA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3939	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: Re: AF Compatable Sound Systems

The Ott sound systems work with AF. You can get a steam sound with somewhat hokey whistle or diesel horn as the least expensive. (under $40) For about a hundred $ you can get the diesel roar woith horn and bell or sound of steam with whistle and bell. They are essentially the same systems used with American Models. There was a description recently on how to disable the AF choo choo when using these. if you need more info let me know. I installed a steam sound in a boxcar and it works fine. "Marinello, Jon" wrote: > > From: "Marinello, Jon" <jon.marinello@...> > > Yesterday I visited a couple of train stores in the LA area and heard some > of the newer sound systems. Pretty cool! > > The traditional AF sound systems (Diesel Roar, Whistles, Diesel Horn, etc.) > are pretty weak by today's standards. What newer or state-of-the-art sound > systems are available today that are compatible with AF AC current. > > Are there any that can be modified to work with AF. Or do you have to > convert to DC to use these systems? > > --jon > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Attention ONElist list owners. > http://www.onelist.com > We've just added a "NO ATTACHMENTS" option. See homepage for details. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3940	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: AM and S-HS equipment on AF track

I run several AM engines (GG1, GP-9), and the S-HS SW-9 on Flyer sectional track but on a table layout without problems. Generally freight cars go around OK, except when I put a light car coupled to an engine (maybe the GP-9). The car would derail. I just coupled a little heavier car behind the engine and it was OK. I have a problem with AM 60' heavyweight passenger cars derailing going around curves. I understand this is a matter of weighting the cars which I have yet to do. I have more derailing problems (which are not many) with AF engines than I do these. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3941	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: Hot Wheels Collectibles

I finally did it. I bought one of the Hot Wheels Collectibles, the '57 Oldsmobile. I have seen them multiple times at MUCH higher cost than Mint Editions. This time, I saw it at WalMart for under $8. In the name of increasing the variety of cars on my future layout, I decided it was worth it. It is a nice looking car, and will be nicer after I remove the race car graphics, much as I hate to do so, since it is Petty Engineering, #43; Yes, RICHARD "the King" Petty. Maybe I'll have to look for another one............. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3942	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: BAAFC and ACSG combined shows

Hi everyone, Just returned from the Greenberg show at Chantilly, VA where the Baltimore Area American Flyer Club and Atlantic Coast S Gaugers, Virginia Central Division ran a combined layout. I had a great time. Will try to fill you in on details later but must get to ebay now. There is a bridge I hope to get. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3943	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 7/11/1999
Subject: temporary removal

Please remove me from the mailing list; computer going down for shipment to Norway. Guess we'll have some s-gaugers a little west of Oslo in Tranby. Rance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3944	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Chantilly Show

Hi Everyone, As I mentioned last night the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers, Virginia Central Division and the Baltimore Area American Flyer Club ran a combined layout at the Greenberg, Chantilly Virginia show this past weekend. It was a great, successful show. Members of the BAAFC brought some of their unique trains to run such as the 4-6-6-2 articulated, N&W custom 4-8-4 J, complete Milwaukee Hiawatha custom painted, AM C&NW heavyweights pulled by a Flyer CNW pacific, and various custom painted and lettered freight cars. ACSG members brought their Lionel Flyer California Zephyr with ABA (with railsounds) and 7 passenger cars including 4 dome observations, Lionel Flyer NP Northcoast limited with 7 passenger cars and ABBA with railrsounds and an all Flyer celebration train pulled by a Lionel Flyer 370 Geep. Of course there was a large array of vintage Gilbert Flyer with link couplers on display and operating and a couple of SIT sitting on sidetracks steaming up. Add to that the large variety of Gilbert, Lionel, Marx and new Gilbert Reproduction accessories and you can just imagine the interest the children had. We even had a horn button placed that they could operating themselves, which was a big hit. The finale came when we attempted to run a train of 50 Gilbert IC reefer cars. We first tried with 3 Lionel Flyer geeps at the front of the train and then spread out in the train. Did not work. We eventually had to reduce the train in size (not sure how many cars) and pull it with MU'd Gilbert Pacifics. Still an impressive sight. AND great fun. Thank's to the BAAFC for allowing the ACSG to run with them. You are part of what makes this hobby so much fun. Not sure when the next show the BAAFC is in but one can contact them. The next show the ACSG club is in will be the GATS show in Richmond, VA August 21 and 22. Members from both the Virginia Central Division and Carolina Central Division will be running trains. There will also be a world wide convention of N scalers with one whole building of N scale layouts. Bring your magnifying glasses, but come see us in August. Be sure to stop by and introduce yourself, and you are always welcome to run with us. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3945	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: FRIENDLY S CLUBS

Bay Area S Scalers, Lee Johnson, Walnut Creek, CA Golden Gate American Flyer Club, Jake Jacobson, El Cerrito, CA West Bay S Gaugers, Clyde King, Menlo Park, CA If you need phone numbers for the above I can get them to you off the digest. North Penn S Gaugers was founded to have an unlimited membership and thus be friendly to any inquirers. Our members have invited guests to our meetings and we now have 22 members. Many clubs seem open and friendly but some have limited their memberships to the number that can meet in a home so they don't want new people involved.. Look for names of neighbors that appear in the August NASG Dispatch and invite them to your house and start a club if no local club is available. Inlist the help of your regional Vice-president. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3946	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.

>>>Paul Schneider wrote: 1) Does anyone have any experience running hi-rail AM and S-HS equipment (locomotives particularly) on a Flyer floor layout? >>> Paul, I've run AM's GG1 and Southern Crescent Ltd. on a Flyer floor layout. No problems with the locos. However, I do have trouble with the AM heavyweight coaches derailing around Flyer curves. Seems to me there was an article a couple of years back in either S Gaugian or Dispatch about filing notches in the coupler "tongue" so that they'd clear the steps when they swing around Flyer curves. Roger Delthony recommends adding weight to the cars. Anyone else have recommendations to solve this derailing problem? >>> 2) Is anyone on this list a member of a Bay Area AF/hi-railers group? >>> As I recall, there's the Golden Gate American Flyer Club in the Bay Area. Don't know their contact, but maybe Lee Johnson can help. I don't have my NASG Directory here at work, but they're probably listed there. I'll try to remember to look it up tonight and get back to you tomorrow. >>> But like many model railroaders I've met since I joined the hobby a few months ago, [this Bay Area hi-railer] seemed stand-offish, even reluctant to discuss the group he belonged to. >>> That can happen, but one thing I've noted about S gaugers--they're among the friendliest and most helpful people you'll ever want to meet. Maybe it's because we're a minority scale, and we know how hard it can be to come up with information. We HAVE to stick together. While I'm on the subject, Paul, have you joined NASG? Seems to me a lot of the answers to your questions can be found by "uniting" with the rest of us. (That goes for the rest of you on this list.) If you can't find anyone in SF to join with, please come on up to Boise--I'll guarantee you'll be welcomed with open arms (swing by Oroville and grab David Dewey on your way up)! YourS, John Eichmann, Coordinator Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3947	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.

Hi all, Uh oh, Somehow I'm in here too!! Paul, if you can't find anyone in the bay area, come on up this way! I think there are some S gaugers hiding out around here too. I know I tuned a piano for one a few years ago, but we didn't manage to stay in touch. Of course, if you're going to Boise, I don't take up too much space!! Anyone get their new Dispatch yet? Mine always seems to be a few weeks late. I'm not convinced the AM heavyweight problem is limited to the couplers. I think the trucks don't have enough side play to handle AF curves, especially during switching and reverse curves. Also, the cars are light! I love the detailing on them, but the plastic trucks turn me off! I don't want to be a "whiner", but it would seem to me that IF a major part of your market is AF operators, then your product should be engineered to function well with most AF equipment. Now if you put those beautiful bodies on a die-cast chassis with good trucks.......(I know, the AF ones were on plastic chassis, but look what's happening to them today!). Well, enough pipe-dreaming, back to running & Fixin' Flyer! (Hint, that's a plug for the Dispatch!--BTW, I encourage suggestions for my column!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3948	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: 785 Coal loader operation

I got "this close" to buying a 785 coal loader yesterday, but one thing kept me from making the purchase. I'd appreciate your help in clarifying how one of these should operate (was I expecting too much?), and what may have been the problem with this one. This unit was in nice shape (~VG), all original and complete. The clamshell dolly would roll down the rack and then drop the clamshell to the table top. Next The clamshell would close, but instead of then rising straight up and next rolling up the rails back into the housing, the closed clamshell started up and in at the same time (in other words travelling on a diagonal up and in towards the structure). This caused the clamshell to get dragged across the face of the structure and caught on several edges on the way up. Eventually it ended up in the housing, but usually only with some manual intervention and/or dumping its load on the way. All the pulleys looked as though they were moving OK. Should an operator expect a 785 to rise up and then ride the rails in. The dealer is reputable. He took the unit of the sale shelf, and said he'd look at it at home. He thought maybe the string was too fine and needed to be replaced with thicker string. Thanks in advance for your help and inputs/opinions/experience.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3949	From: Scott Brown	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 301

Hi all !! Yes, the Greenberg show in Chantilly,Virginia was a good one. The S layout was well done. It was a joy to finally see the "S"uperior gauge represented. There were about a half dozen or so vendors with S/AF items, although all were pricey. I thought most of the prices were about twice what I would pay. I saw a 302 and tender for $70. I paid $35 for mine from Vienna Station last year. The lower end freight cars were selling for $18-$22 and were in fair to good shape. I saw a coal loader go for about $445. and a saw mill for $350. 960 series passenger cars in fair to good shape for about $100 a piece at one vendor. I didn't notice anyone buying much of it. But, it was fun to look and the layouts were fun to watch. I missed meeting Wayne Beachy. Maybe he was looking for that bridge. :0) Scott Brown sbrown@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3950	From: John Foley	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Coal Loads

Hi Folks At the Great American Train Show I attended at Upper Marlboro Maryland I met a fellow named Wilson Harrel. He owns a company named Hobby Loads. Wilson makes some great s scale coal loads for four differant s gauge cars. they are 0434-1 AF 34' hopper 0440-1 AF 40' hopper 0441-1 AM 34' hopper 0443-1 AM 40' hopper Wilson uses real coal mounted on wood. They fit and look great. You can order or ask about them at. Wilson Harrell 936 Moyer Road Newport News Virgina, 23608 [757] 877-7152 There is also a 10% discount if you order 10 or more. John Foley BTW Wilson is a brand new member of the NASG.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3951	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: Train shows last weekend

On Saturday I attended the Greenberg train show in Chantilly, VA and the Great American Train show in Upper Marlboro, MD. They were about 50 miles apart. I saw the Baltimore Area American Flyer Club and Atlantic Coast S Gaugers, Virginia Central Division combined layout. It was great! I wish I had had more time to linger there, but I was in a rush that day. I was pleased at Greenberg's with the number of S gauge vendors (6 or 8 I guess). I could have purchased a whole lot more, but I put myself on a budget. The Greenberg show was much more impressive than the Great American show. It was bigger and had a lot more attendance. Is this common, or did I just hit an unusually bad Great American show?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3952	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: alps decals

Well i finally gave up on finding the right decals and went an bought a ALPS1000 dry transfer printer! NOW... any recomendations on the best way to use it? :) There are a bunch of color modes and there is the use (or non-use) of the finisher ribbon. Any ideas before i start? Thanks, kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3953	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: 785 Coal loader operation

This can be caused by the srtring snagging on the cylindrical housing around the pulley. Happened to me. Also happens f the string is not around akk the pulleys properly. Easy to fix via adjustment if it's either of these things. Another problem I had was clutch slipping. Also easy to adjust by setting slip pressure against wooden pulley. The fact that everything moved means it's probably OK. David_Horn@... wrote: > > From: David_Horn@... > > I got "this close" to buying a 785 coal loader yesterday, but one thing kept > me from making the purchase. I'd appreciate your help in clarifying how one > of these should operate (was I expecting too much?), and what may have been > the problem with this one. This unit was in nice shape (~VG), all original > and complete. The clamshell dolly would roll down the rack and then drop > the clamshell to the table top. Next The clamshell would close, but instead > of then rising straight up and next rolling up the rails back into the > housing, the closed clamshell started up and in at the same time (in other > words travelling on a diagonal up and in towards the structure). This > caused the clamshell to get dragged across the face of the structure and > caught on several edges on the way up. Eventually it ended up in the > housing, but usually only with some manual intervention and/or dumping its > load on the way. All the pulleys looked as though they were moving OK. > Should an operator expect a 785 to rise up and then ride the rails in. The > dealer is reputable. He took the unit of the sale shelf, and said he'd look > at it at home. He thought maybe the string was too fine and needed to be > replaced with thicker string. Thanks in advance for your help and > inputs/opinions/experience. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? > http://www.onelist.com > Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3954	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Die Cast

Big Lots has several interesting Die Cast items; For you modern guys, Ertl Semis for $10-12; I have seen McDonalds, Coke, Corona Racing Champs '64 Ford and '65 Ford 2-dr. hardtops; $1.50 Johnny Lightning cars for $1.50 Farm Equipment; tractor and implement The tractor is generic, but the implements look good for filling out a flat car load, or for populating a farm or tractor dealer's lot. ________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3955	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: June Editorial

Jeff and S-Trains; Jeff, your June Dispatch editorial is great. For you guys who might have gotten part way through the article and felt offended, read all the way to the end. I especially liked the slogans. I intend to print some of these up for use as posters on our club modular layout. Here's suggestion #13; get involved with your local NMRA activities, not only at shows. Show them what we have, and let them teach you some first rate modeling in a variety of other scales. I frequently see the local NMRA constructing kits at local train shows. Why not sit with them and construct S scale kits? Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3956	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Trailer Train

Thanks Joe Haenn, for sending me some pictures of a Trailer Train built per the S Gaugian article. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/carcary/carcary.html -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3957	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: Trailer Train

Hmm, I dunno, with those "monster trucks" on the top level, if will clear tunnels!! Interesting. When did auto racks first come into popular use? I know later on that side panels were added because of vandalism, and later clamshell doors on the ends. (The company I used to work for repaired them for TT) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3958	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: 200 ton Flat

Whilst cruising along the river and down the tollway, heading for Cape Cod, I spied a short train headed towards me on the opposite bank. I shoulda stopped and gotten my camera out. 'Twas a ConRail engine pulling two loads on flats and looking VERY similar to the photo on page 8 of the June Dispatch. Important note to anybody building one of these models; the loads were spliced by hopper cars, and there was another hopper between the load and the engine. I suspect that the hoppers were there to spread the load for bridge safety. Possibly also to add braking. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3959	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.

I have trouble with the heavyweights on code 100 curves. I appears that the trucks can't swing too far without hitting the center sill. I plan to nip off a bit of the sill and see if that doesn't help. next step will be some weight inside the car right over the trucks. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3960	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.

Nipping off the sill will work. Rail size has nothing to do with it. Also, the trucks are stiff, and tend to skew vertically because the axle holes are not deep enough. Countersink these a bit more and the trucks will work fine. Caution: For the 6-wheel trucks, you need to countersink the center axle holes much deeper than the outside holes. You need increased lateral play for the 6-wheel trucks to go around curves -- even 40" radius curves. For those of you who don't like the AM plastic truck shine, give them a spurt of Testor's DullCoat straight from the can. Dick Karnes Alex Binkley wrote: > From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> > > I have trouble with the heavyweights on code 100 curves. I appears that > the trucks can't swing too far without hitting the center sill. I plan > to nip off a bit of the sill and see if that doesn't help. next step > will be some weight inside the car right over the trucks. > cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3961	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.

That reminds me, I also made that modification to mine a few years ago. Had forgotten. It, together with the narrowing of the coupler shanks, pretty well cured all the problems. I have since retrofitted mine with truck mounted Kadees because they couple more closely and thus look much better. Alex Binkley wrote: > > From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@...> > > I have trouble with the heavyweights on code 100 curves. I appears that > the trucks can't swing too far without hitting the center sill. I plan > to nip off a bit of the sill and see if that doesn't help. next step > will be some weight inside the car right over the trucks. > cheers > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist members are using Shared Files in great ways! > http://www.onelist.com > Are you? If not, see our homepage for details. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3962	From: Richard	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: SD60

As Ron seems full of surprises, and whilst a K-4 does nothing for me personally...yeah I know heathen!!! Did anyone pin him down to a release date for the SD60 ( Hi Ron !!) , did anyone have a really good look at the shell.. >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3963	From: Jim Grimes	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: Denver show?

Hi All, Does anyone know anything about a train show in Denver in August? I would also be interested in any other midwestern-western shows this summer. Jim -- Jim & Ingrid Grimes Trailside Bikes 35 6th St. south Custer SD, 57730 605-673-5526 888-673-BIKE (toll free) tsbikes@... web page: http://www.trailsidebikes.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3964	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/12/1999
Subject: AM heavyweights

I've had the B&O set from American Models for some time, and initially had many derailing problems.When I decided to illuminate them, I attacked several problems- for the axle wiper,I used .012 stainless steel shim stock.I put an extreme bend in each wiper prior to installing. This makes each wiper act as a leaf spring and actually reduces the flexing of the trucks-making them much mure rigid and stable.Never since have I had all the wheels and axles rolling loose in the box(as was the case when I first opened them! Made me appreciate LTI Flyer!) When the roofs were off, i took the opportunity to stuff the boxes in the underside(air tanks?)(they are open on the floor side) with lead weights.I used the lead seals that commonly join the lockwire on fire extinguisher safety pins. I also shaved a little material off the steps, but in retrospect, I don't feel that that was neccessary. I added xeroxed Flyer pas- senger profiles to the windows along with 3 amber grain of rice bulbs per coach-the amber gives the light a nice warm, mellow effect-sort of like aged Gilbert diffusers. Now I have an AM coach set that tracks perfectly, and, when the room lights are off, has that same charming character that the A.C. Gilbert coaches enjoy.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3965	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: American Models Trouble

Make sure you visit the AM help page and see their comments. If you don't see what you need, send them a note. http://www.americanmodels.com/trouble.html -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3966	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.

Charles E. Smith wrote snip > I have since retrofitted mine with > truck mounted Kadees because they couple more closely and thus look > much > better. > Just wondering why you didn't body mount the KDs or did that detract from the car going through curves. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3967	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: too bright for me

I bought a California Zephyr dining car to go with my older all satin silver passenger cars and 661's, but the illumination is way too bright! It looks really funny with the other soft yellow glow of the other cars. I've thought about using yellow construction paper as the diffuser to tone it down, but not sure there isn't a better way. Any experience with this? Any ideas? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3968	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.

Talgo mounted Kadees were necessary to handle some of the mild s turns on my layout. I nounted them by attaching the kadees with small screws to brass strips that replaced the plastic coupler shanks. Draft gear boxes were not used. The brass yields the additional benefit that coupler height can be precisely set by bending the brass strips up or down. If you have no s turns or have very wide radius turns then body mounted would work. Alex Binkley wrote: > > Charles E. Smith wrote > snip > > > I have since retrofitted mine with > > truck mounted Kadees because they couple more closely and thus look > > much > > better. > > > > Just wondering why you didn't body mount the KDs or did that detract > from the car going through curves. > cheers -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3969	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: too bright for me

TOD (=The other David)<G> Well, haven't put mine on the track yet to compare, maybe a change of light bulbs will help. BUT!!! my favorite trick w/ the streamliners is to add a light blue diffuser paper. If you've ever seen these cars in 12" to the foot at night, the windows are all tinted and most of the light is apparently fluorescent, definitely not a "yellow" light. (In my hometown the Starlight goes through at 2AM, or at least did, I don't know what the schedule is today--what was I doing up at 2 AM? I dunno, I was a teenager then!). This alteration is easily reversed, and I think adds realism to the trains. BTW, the real lights flicker sometimes too!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3970	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: too bright for me

You might try a different bulb of lower brightness (probably a higher voltage rating- try Radio Shack). An alternative is to install a resistor in series with the bulb. Get some 5 or 10 watt resistors of a few ohms at Radio Shack and experiment until you like the results. Remember the resistor will get pretty warm in operation so mount it away from plastic. David_Horn@... wrote: > > From: David_Horn@... > > I bought a California Zephyr dining car to go with my older all satin silver > passenger cars and 661's, but the illumination is way too bright! It looks > really funny with the other soft yellow glow of the other cars. I've > thought about using yellow construction paper as the diffuser to tone it > down, but not sure there isn't a better way. Any experience with this? Any > ideas? Thanks. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Congratulations MilitaryEFM. Our latest ONElist of the week. > http://www.onelist.com > How is ONElist changing YOUR life? Visit our homepage and let us know! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3971	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: American Models Trouble

Hi all, Paul has a good point, check with the manufacturer. I did go to the site, and some of the "tricks" we've mentioned here are listed there. I do find, though (my observation only!), that it's interesting that they mention how much superior their switches are, and that others' track is often under-gauge. They also state how to modify a car to be coupled to their engines to prevent derailing. Hmm, how about a retro-fit to the locos so they don't cause the problem?? Then they talk about bending coupler arms and lift levers to adjust them. Hmm, I've not usually had good luck permanently bending plastic--it likes to go back to where it was, or I over-bend it and it becomes weak there. I am _really_ open to others' opinions here! I know I'm oftentimes finicky, and I do want to remind the reader that I do LOVE the neat detailing on the AM heavyweight cars! BTW, this sure has been an "active" subject! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3972	From: Bill Clark	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.

How did you do truck mounted Kadees? I tried body mounted, and can't get around curves at all, so truck mounted sounds good. Do they still couple and uncouple automagically? Bill At 10:32 PM 07/12/1999 -0400, you wrote: >From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > >That reminds me, I also made that modification to mine a few years ago. >Had forgotten. It, together with the narrowing of the coupler shanks, >pretty well cured all the problems. I have since retrofitted mine with >truck mounted Kadees because they couple more closely and thus look much >better.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3973	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: S Clubs and Contacts

Hi Folks, In the last Digest there were a couple of posts regarding how to find contacts for S gauge clubs. All of this information is online including names and addresses for specific individuals to contact within each club. Go to the NASG website at: http://trainweb.com/nasg/sclubs.html For example, the Golden Gate American Flyer Club was one of those mentioned in the post. Here's the info from the NASG website: Golden Gate American Flyer Club Jake Jacobsen 310 Behrens St. El Cerito, CA 94530 Another club mentioned in the post is The Bay Area S Scalers. Here's the info from the NASG website: Bay Area S Scalers Lee Johnson 2472 Lariat Lane Walnut Creek, CA 94596-6635 And yet another mentioned in the posts was the West Bay S Gaugers. The NASG website listing for that group is: West Bay S Gaugers Clyde King 1090 Merrill St. Menlo Park, CA 94025 Note that in some cases there are hypertext links to e-mail addresses and club websites where applicable. The NASG website also lists the names (with hypertext e-mail address links) and city/state locations of NASG members who are online and who have provided the NASG with their e-mail information. You can find that at: http://trainweb.com/nasg/members.html Hope this all helps folks to make contact with one another. Regards, Craig S. O'Connell NASG Website Director

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3974	From: Bill Porter	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: too bright for me

Resistors in series are good, diodes might be even better. A silicon diode will reduce the voltage by about 0.7, so two of them in series will reduce it by a volt and a half. For AC operation or for bi-directional DC operation, you need two pairs in parallel. ----+---|=>---|=>---+-------- +---<=|---<=|---+ It is not much of a drawing, but, you may get the idea. Connect the plus signs together. The -|=>- and -<=|- represent silicon diodes. One end of the assembly goes to one lead on the bulb. The other end goes to one rail pickup.They too will get a little warm. They are a lot easier to find and less costly than high wattage resistors. Since the bulbs don't draw much current, you can get by with little guys like 1n4001 (Radio Shack 276-1101). If you have a lot of dimming to do, check out another source like Jameco or Mouser or the Radio Shack Pack-o-diodes( 276-1653) once you feel comfortable with the solution. Good Luck, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Charles E. Smith <cesmith@...> To: David_Horn@... <David_Horn@...> Cc: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Tuesday, July 13, 1999 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] too bright for me >From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > >You might try a different bulb of lower brightness (probably a higher >voltage rating- try Radio Shack). An alternative is to install a >resistor in series with the bulb. Get some 5 or 10 watt resistors of a >few ohms at Radio Shack and experiment until you like the results. >Remember the resistor will get pretty warm in operation so mount it away >from plastic. > >David_Horn@... wrote: >> >> From: David_Horn@... >> >> I bought a California Zephyr dining car to go with my older all satin silver >> passenger cars and 661's, but the illumination is way too bright! It looks >> really funny with the other soft yellow glow of the other cars. I've >> thought about using yellow construction paper as the diffuser to tone it >> down, but not sure there isn't a better way. Any experience with this? Any >> ideas? Thanks. >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3975	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Too bright for me

A thought that occurred to me while reading today's string about light bulbs is to paint the bulb yellow. AF switch controller bulbs are painted red and green. A thinned yellow paint might just give the desired yellow cast. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3976	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: too bright for me

To dim lamps, try using power rectifier diodes such as 1N4001 or 1N4002 types in series with the bulbs to dim them. Each diode causes a 0.6-volt drop, and you can add a few diodes in series until you get the brightness you want. The diodes don't dissipate power. In other words, resistors get warm or hot. Diodes do not. I use a single diode at every switch machine to keep the bulbs from burning out. Good luck. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3977	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer Branford Diner

Hi, Would anyone know where I could get ahold of the diner name banner and pipe chimney?...thanks Jeff -

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3978	From: John Foley	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Train Shows

Message: 20 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 23:31:40 -0400 From: Jim Grimes <tsbikes@...> Subject: Denver show? Hi All, Does anyone know anything about a train show in Denver in August? I would also be interested in any other midwestern-western shows this summer. Jim -- Jim & Ingrid Grimes Trailside Bikes 35 6th St. south Custer SD, 57730 605-673-5526 888-673-BIKE (toll free) tsbikes@... web page: http://www.trailsidebikes.com Hi Jim Are are 3 sites you can check out for train shows. http://www.2.greenbergshows.com/greenberg/ http://www.gats.com/ http://tucson.com/concor/ John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3979	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: AM Heavyweights on Flyer Curves, etc.

I replaced the couplers entirely with a shank made of a thin sheet of brass. The Kadees were then mounted directly onto the brass with a small sheet metal screw. They couple OK if they are centered. One of the mods I made was to notch the brass a little where it passes thru the truck frame support so the centering is not perfect all the time. This was a tradeoff for negotiating s turns. With all the mods I made I don't know if this one was absolutely required. I kinda shotgunned solutions like increasing frame clearance, etc. The one thing I didn't do was weight the cars. They were retrofitted with home made electrical pickup wipers and lights. The pickup works great but at the expense of increased drag, though no problem behind my GG1. Bill Clark wrote: > > From: Bill Clark <clark@...> > > How did you do truck mounted Kadees? I tried body mounted, and can't get > around curves at all, so truck mounted sounds good. Do they still couple and > uncouple automagically? > > Bill > > At 10:32 PM 07/12/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > > > >That reminds me, I also made that modification to mine a few years ago. > >Had forgotten. It, together with the narrowing of the coupler shanks, > >pretty well cured all the problems. I have since retrofitted mine with > >truck mounted Kadees because they couple more closely and thus look much > >better. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to online communities. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3980	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer Branford Diner

> From: "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" > > Would anyone know where I could get ahold of the diner > name banner and pipe chimney?...thanks Jeff R. F. Giardina's has them on their accessory parts page: http://members.aol.com/rfgtrains/accessory.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3981	From: Mark Preman	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Wanted: Docksider Shell

Hey guys, Anyone have a 21155 docksider shell they don't need? I just picked up a complete and functional chassis, motor, smoke unit, and valve gear. Acually, any loose docksider shell would make a working switcher. Mark B. Preman http://www.americanflyertrains.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3982	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: too bright for me

RE: [S-Trains] too bright for me David Horn wrote: > Thanks, but I think someone wrote in saying diodes with AC can blow up, or > was that referencing rectifiers? Not sure. Might ask the gang again. My answer is: only if you exceed their ratings. And that holds true for transistors, ancient vacuum tubes, your car battery, AF transformers, etc. Use those nice miniature--but very hefty--power diodes, and enjoy! Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3983	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: AM RS-3

- Greeting`S' - Happily I have acquired an AM RS-3 marketed by S-Helper Service. The body material is not identified, but I presume it is polystyrene. Please, will those of you who have painted the AM items from about 1991 with satisfying results tell me how you did it. In particular, I should like to know about advisability of undercoat, brand of paint which was satisfactory, maybe which ones to steer clear of, and if you have found a good match to Virginia green used by the Southern Railway. Responses to the list are welcome. Responses to me will be summarized and posted to the list. Many thanks and Cheer`S' Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3984	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: Touch up paint for AF Light green

Hello, Does anyone know where one can purchase American Flyer light green touch up paint....for accesories touch up....I do not know the name of the color...thanks in advance..Jeff -- ** Full Service MLS " BUYER & SELLER " Representation ** Web site - http://www.LehighValleyRealty.com E-Mail - mailto:findit@... " Allow me to refer you anywhere across the U.S.A./ Caribbean " TOP TEN RE/MAX LISTING ASSOCIATE IN THE LEHIGH VALLEY 1994-95 TOP FIVE RE/MAX LISTING ASSOCIATE IN THE LEHIGH VALLEY 1996 TOP FIVE RE/MAX SELLING AGENT TOTAL UNITS SOLD 1998 ALLENTOWN OFFICE Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA Broker/Appraiser RE/MAX Real estate 3021 College Heights Blvd. Allentown, PA 18104 Office: 610-770-9000 Toll Free: 1-800-360-9001 24 Hour Voice Mail: 610-706-4267 Fax: 610-398-9434 Residence: 610-398-4024 Serving - Lehigh & Northampton Counties - Allentown, Bethlehem, & Easton

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3985	From: David Golden	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Questions from a beginner

Hi Everyone, I joined this list about two weeks ago, and have really enjoyed reading the different comments. However I realize that I am certainly new to all of this. I have an American Flyer 316 steam engine, assorted cars and accessories. I have gotten the urge to get this set up and running. I have recently had the engine overhauled to make sure it still runs, and now I am ready to set up my layout. My questions are these. 1. Can I still use my original track that came with the set? It appears to be in good condition, although there is some rust. 2. Is there a book of plans or instructions for setting up a layout Any help would be appreciated. I hope these questions don't appear to stupid, but if you don't ask, you never know. Thanks Dave Golden dgolden@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3986	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: Questions from a beginner

David, Well, the top of the track needs to be clean and shiney, as well as the pins that hold it all together. Rust in other places is pretty much cosmetic---unless it's really rusty! There are numerous track plans out there, the AF instruction book has some, and others have printed some, and I think Paul has a few on his site too. Some things to know about: reversing curves is possible, but less problems if there is at least a 1/2 straight between them. This holds true for switches too! Track should be "square" that is, no dips etc. in the pieces, sight down them, and you'll be suprised at what you find! Going uphill in a curve takes a lot more energy than going up a straight section, you can get by with steeper straight sections! Have fun!! S' David D. Hmm, fire a few blocks away, I'd better check on it, drop planes are buzzing my house, later!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3987	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: Questions from a beginner

Hi, Can you direct me whose site has track layouts.....I am looking to build a 6 X16 layout...thanks, Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3988	From: MILAYMAN@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: FYI - MEETS

ROCKY MOUNTAIN DIVISION OF THE TCA will have a Summer meet in the Rockies on August 13, 14, 15 1999 at the Holiday Inn DIA (I-70 & Chambers Road). Setup and auction (no S) is in the evening on the 13th. The auction viewing is at 5:00 P.M. and the auctioning starts at 6. John H. Pease has catalogs for $5 which is required if one plans to bid. In the past, "S " represented about 15% to 20% of the items available for sale. There will be 125 to 175 tables. On the 14th and 15th only TCA members can buy and sell till 10 A.M., then the public is invited in by paying a door fee. The summer meet has been a RMD tradition for more than thirty years. It is well managed. If you come, please look for my table. Marvin Layman.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3989	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: AM Heavyweights

>Paul Schneider wrote: 1) Does anyone have any experience running hi-rail AM and S-HS equipment (locomotives particularly) on a Flyer floor layout? > I've run AM and SHS Amtrak (not heavyweight) and freight trains on rug mounted AM 24" radius track with no problems. I was impressed with the ability of the Amtrak cars to go through reverse curves without incident. (I wouldn't want to be a scale person going between curves when that happens, though!) I recently acquired some AM NYC heavyweights with two cars having 6 wheel trucks. These trucks would not reliably go around AF curves, and derailed many times. First I tried removing the center axles from each truck, but still had derailments. Then I tried removing the inside axles, and leaving only the center and outside axles in place. Viola! No derailments! I'm not sure how these will work on grades, as the no-axle end of the truck may drag on the rail head if there is a sag vertical curve on a horizontal curve. AF solved this problem by using blind wheels (no flanges) on the inside axles of their heavyweights that had the long 6 wheel trucks (not the standard 6 wheel trucks most AF heavyweights have). Another advantage of using only the outer two axles is that the couplers on adjacent cars align with each other more closely than they would otherwise. Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3990	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Parts, Books, Screen saver, Site Search

Just a reminder to those looking for info. Try my new web site search. Looking for parts, decals, touch-up paint? see the parts supplier page http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/parts/parts.htm Flyer and other railroad books, visit my bookstores. Flyer screen savers? http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/scrensav/scrensav.htm -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3991	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Jeff burnatowski:AF accessory green

A fair match for Flyer accessory green is made by Classic Model Trains-but since it is a close match, it should be used for a total repaint, not touch-up. Portlines carries it in both spray can and bottled for brushing or thinning and air brushing. I have used CMT paints on tinplate repaints, and am generally pleased with it when airbrushed and then baked at 180 degrees for 45 minutes.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3992	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: Paint for AM locos

"Rhett T. George" wrote: > Happily I have acquired an AM RS-3 marketed by S-Helper Service. The > body material is not identified, but I presume it is polystyrene. AM bodies are made of ABS, which is like styrene except that it will not craze when laquer-based paints are used on it. > Please, will those of you who have painted the AM items from about 1991 > with satisfying results tell me how you did it. In particular, I should > like to know about advisability of undercoat, brand of paint which was > satisfactory, maybe which ones to steer clear of, and if you have found > a good match to Virginia green used by the Southern Railway. I use Floquil model railroad paints, which are solvent-based. They have a wide range of colors, includiing Southern green. The only surface prep you need to do is to wash the plastic shell in a mild detergent, scrubbing with a soft toothbrush. Then rinse and let dry. Best results are obtained by using an airbrush. I use a Paasche, and I spray outdoors. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3993	From: Larry Oberman	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: L

Hi all, I sent an email to L to ask about the lack of Flyer on their new website and received this reply: Sorry, we do not have any information on items that are not currently in production or already shipped. There is a new American Flyer Christmas Boxcar in the upcoming LIONEL Classic II Catalog. Thank you for the inquiry. Wow,they've outdone themselves again.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3994	From: Roy E. Plotnick	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: SIT unit needed

I have been restoring a 312. The only thing missing is the SIT unit. Anyone have a spare? Repairable stuff ok! -Roy Roy E. Plotnick Professor Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences University of Illinois at Chicago 845 W. Taylor St. Chicago, IL 60607 plotnick@... phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279 "The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May Alcott

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3995	From: Don Thompson	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS-3

Dear Rhett, The RS-3 bodies were made of ABS. Don Thompson "Rhett T. George" wrote: > From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...> > > - Greeting`S' - > > Happily I have acquired an AM RS-3 marketed by S-Helper Service. The > body material is not identified, but I presume it is polystyrene. > > Please, will those of you who have painted the AM items from about 1991 > with satisfying results tell me how you did it. In particular, I should > like to know about advisability of undercoat, brand of paint which was > satisfactory, maybe which ones to steer clear of, and if you have found > a good match to Virginia green used by the Southern Railway. > > Responses to the list are welcome. Responses to me will be summarized > and posted to the list. > > Many thanks and Cheer`S' > > Rhett George > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Attention ONElist list owners. > http://www.onelist.com > We've just added a "NO ATTACHMENTS" option. See homepage for details. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3996	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: American Flyer #15 Directronic rectifier

Hello, Being new to this...I hope this is not out of line....I have a American Flyer #15 Directronic rectifier....open bid $5.00....item #130961672 on ebay..please let me know if this not proper to do....thanks,Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3997	From: Dennis Back	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer #15 Directronic rectifier

--- "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" >item #130961672 on > ebay..please let me know if this not proper to > do....thanks,Jeff > NO. THIS is NOT the proper way to do it. What you need to do is this: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=130961672 This way all the LAZY people will be able to find it without having to move very much! ;-) Seriously, though, I have no objection to an post here or there to "plug" an item(s). Then again, I am not the list owner! RegardS, Dennis Miami

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3998	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer #15 Directronic rectifier

Thanks Dennis, Just call me Lazy!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 3999	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/13/1999
Subject: Paint

Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 16:18:27 -0400 From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...> Subject: AM RS-3 - Greeting`S' - Happily I have acquired an AM RS-3 marketed by S-Helper Service. The body material is not identified, but I presume it is polystyrene. Please, will those of you who have painted the AM items from about 1991 with satisfying results tell me how you did it. In particular, I should like to know about advisability of undercoat, brand of paint which was satisfactory, maybe which ones to steer clear of, and if you have found a good match to Virginia green used by the Southern Railway. Responses to the list are welcome. Responses to me will be summarized and posted to the list. Many thanks and Cheer`S' Rhett George ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------- I have painted many American Models and S Helper locomotives and cars. I use spray cans as I've never learned how to use an airbrush. If it is already painted, you can put almost anything on top, with no problems, as the original paint acts as a barrier.You have to be more careful with an undecorated one, but I have used Krylon, Floquil, Testors, ModelMaster, and generic type paints successfully. The trick is to keep the plastic from getting "wet" with the paint. This might mean giving the model about ten or more super light coats. If the paint is wet, it might damage the plastic. The more paint that is on it, the less careful you need to be. I might spend an evening reading or watching TV, getting up every 15 minutes or so to spray for maybe 5 seconds or less , say 2 seconds on each side. Works for me, Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4000	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: posting e-bay url

Can you highlight the url so I won't have to copy and paste it to get to the site! Thanx ,Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4001	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: Too bright for me

Roger: You'd need to use a heat-resistant paint. Check the automotive section of discount stores for engine paint. Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4002	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS-3

Rhett: If you are going to use Flo-Quil or Scalecoat, BE SURE you undercoat with Flo-Quil's "Barrier", or a similar product. Flo-Quil's Poly-S and Scalecoat 2 shouldn't need this protection, but the first two MAY crinkle the plastic. Good Luck Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4003	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville Airport terminal

Scott and 'S'ers, While the Plasticville buildings are probably not modeled to any particular prototype, they can be made to look quite nice on a hirail or scale layout. They are an inexpensive, relatively quick way to achieve reasonable-looking structures. The buildings themselves are closely proportioned to S scale, but incorporate O scale windows and doors (personal communication, D. Waskes). So, swap those out for S scale doors and windows, give 'em a coat of paint, maybe some details and a little weathering, and you're all set. We have a number of these structures on our display layout and they look great. Please do not do this sort of thing to collectible Plasticville stuff. That way we can keep these collectors from undergoing cardiac arrest. Good luck on the layout. 'S'incerely, Jay Mellon Crescent City S Gaugers New Orleans, LA > ---------- > From: Trains16@...[SMTP:Trains16@...] > Sent: Friday, July 09, 1999 3:38 PM > To: imsscott@...; S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Plasticville Airport terminal > > From: Trains16@... > > Scott, the Plasticville buildings were made for Ho, and O/S. The new > reissues > for O/S are the same size as the originals, they just changed many of the > colors. They go well with both O and S as the size is compatible, but not > perfect to absolute scale to either size. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4004	From: joelang@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Flyer locomotive lubrication instructions

Hi All.... About a year ago, I was re introduced to my childhood love of AF trains. Since then, I have purchased 2 Pacifics, an Atlantic and, most recently, a NYC 1946 Hudson that I purchased on eBay (more about that purchase and eBay at a later time). I am currently assembling a permananent layout in my basement (the locos have so far only run around the Christmas tree this past Christmas sine I have purchased them). However, now I am concerned about the proper lubrication of these beasts. Can anyone direct me to clear, complete and concise lubrication instructions. Remember, I am a "Newbie" so the instructions shouls also be simple. Any and all help is greatly appreciated. Keep'em running.... Joe Langellotti

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4005	From: FKopetz@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Link Couplers...Does converting to knuckle ruin the value?

Hello all: I am currently looking over some link coupler-type Flyer equipment. However, everything else I have is knuckle coupler. Does it bring down the value of the link coupler stuff if they're converted to knuckle couplers? Also, how easy is it to convert link stuff to knuckle at home, and where is a good source for knuckle coupler conversion kits? Thanks... Frederick P. Kopetz

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4006	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: eBay - Another AF bargain 300AC - May run, $139.00!

It happened again. Here is a url for you eBay watchers... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=128378027

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4007	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: TTX

> > Thanks Joe Haenn, for sending me some pictures of a Trailer Train built > per the S Gaugian article. > http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/photos/carcary/carcary.html > I have seen cars on triple deck racks, but trucks I have always seen on two level racks, presumably for clearance. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4008	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: [Fwd: FW: Burkhardt Gone from WC]

Thought some of you train buffs out there might be interested in what happened to this guy. The letter is written by his wife, seems he got a pretty rotten deal,,

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4009	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: AM RS-3

You don't need to do this. Solvent-based paints won't attack ABS. (By the way, I suspect that not all of you are reading all of the replies to questions -- including this one. Both Don Thompson and I have done so, and yet there is still misinformation circulating around.) Dick Karnes Bruce Pilcher wrote: > If you are going to use Flo-Quil or Scalecoat, BE SURE you undercoat > with Flo-Quil's "Barrier", or a similar product. Flo-Quil's Poly-S and > Scalecoat 2 shouldn't need this protection, but the first two MAY > crinkle the plastic.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4010	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: Link Couplers...Does converting to knuckle ruin the value?

Easy to convert link to knuckle at home. Difficult to do the reverse. When converting be sure you're aware that links converted to knuckle will appear to be coupled much farther apart. I personally don't like this look. I prefer to create one car with a knuckle on one end and link on the other, so you can mix cars in the same train. FKopetz@... wrote: > > From: FKopetz@... > > Hello all: > > I am currently looking over some link coupler-type Flyer equipment. However, > everything else I have is knuckle coupler. Does it bring down the value of > the link > coupler stuff if they're converted to knuckle couplers? Also, how easy is it > to convert link stuff to knuckle at home, and where is a good source for > knuckle coupler conversion kits? > > Thanks... > > Frederick P. Kopetz > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist announces "FRIENDS & FAMILY!" > http://www.onelist.com > See homepage for details, including our weekly drawing! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4011	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer locomotive lubrication instructions

Let's see how far this thread goes. The original instructions said to grease the worm gear with vaseline by removing the cover plate on the underside of the chassis, and oil the back bearing of the armature by adding some light oil to the felt. I have some well worn 310's that received this treatment for many years and run great. Now I worry about whether the 50 year old armature front oilite bearings have any oil left and occasionally put a couple of tiny drops of LaBelle light oil there also. It is easy to overlubricate these things so fight the impulse to drench them. I also know that modern lubricants are around now that weren't available when AC was alive. I like a molydisulfide grease for the worm. Labelle light oil seems to work OK for oil. I have occasionally oiled valve gear with light oil but believe this really isn't necessary. Joseph Langellotti wrote: > > From: joelang@... (Joseph Langellotti) > > Hi All.... About a year ago, I was re introduced to my childhood love of AF > trains. Since then, I have purchased 2 Pacifics, an Atlantic and, most > recently, a NYC 1946 Hudson that I purchased on eBay (more about that > purchase and eBay at a later time). I am currently assembling a permananent > layout in my basement (the locos have so far only run around the Christmas > tree this past Christmas sine I have purchased them). > > However, now I am concerned about the proper lubrication of these beasts. > Can anyone direct me to clear, complete and concise lubrication > instructions. Remember, I am a "Newbie" so the instructions shouls also be > simple. > > Any and all help is greatly appreciated. > > Keep'em running.... Joe Langellotti > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4012	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: "Dispatch" topic ideas

David D. -- > (Hint, that's a plug for the Dispatch!--BTW, I encourage suggestions for > my column!) > S' > David D. Oh goodie -- you asked! Hmmm...where to start? <grin> These may be off topic for "Fixin' Flyer" but here are some article ideas that are sure to be popular for the Dispatch: 1) If I see ONE more 3-rail article on all the NIFTY and NEAT-O automation things you can do by insulating an outside rail of 3-rail track to use the train's metal wheels to complete a circuit...or enhancing other L accessories with relays...I may have to defect to the L-side. (oh NOOooo!) Sure do wish Peter Riddle was into AF instead of Lionel! Show us how we can do some of those nifty-neato things on our Flyer 2-rail layouts with parts available from everyone's around-the-corner Radio Shack (rather than some esoteric electronics supplier). For example, L has the 132 Stop Station -- plans for how wire up something similar with AF 2-rail track using a few Radio Shack parts would be a lot of fun! 2) How can I use an electronic track trip (such as RF Giardina's #1202 trip) and a relay to throw two or three track switches at once? Most electronic trips can't handle the load of more than one track switch at a time. That'd be a *great* article! (Maybe this is ground someone has already covered. I just recently joined the NASG and have received my first Dispatch, but haven't gotten any other information from them yet. I'm wondering about back issue availability so I can catch up on your old columns! I'm watching eBay for old Dispatch and S Gaugian issues...dunno where else I might find them.) 3) I recently bought some old TCA Quarterly magazines (a happy eBay acquisition) and the Summer 1978 issue describes the American Flyer Reverse Loop track switch. The Gilbert engineers modified a couple of track switches to also reverse the polarity of the track by adding a couple of contacts next to the existing contacts inside a regular 720A switch. (I'd make the article available on my web page for all to see but I'm concerned about copyright. Have to see if I can obtain permission from TCA.) The two original ones were popular enough to convince Gilbert make about 50 of them, but after that they determined there wasn't enough demand to put it into full production. An article about this would be quite interesting, along with a wiring diagram and a how-to for such a conversion. 4) An article on how one could take an MTH track signal and use it with 2-rail AF would be interesting. (This comes from having a Flyer layout and looking longingly at all the shiny unscratched NEW stuff available on the shelves of my local hobby shop in the $30 range.) I bought a MT-1037 "Track Activation Device" for $9.95. It's a pressure-activated trip and looks like it might be a good candidate to take the place of the #697 trip, though it's built for O and O-27 track. (I just set one of the AF track ties on the activation bar and it seems to work, but haven't wired anything up to it yet.) Sure beats paying $30 or more for an old AF trip that's probably rusty and needs work! This might be a economical and fun way to throw track switches, etc. 5) CTT ran an article in March 1999 about improving your 3-rail layout with (guess what?) Radio Shack relays. Unfortunately the references were 100% 3-rail L accessories, etc. A similar article written from a Flyer perspective would be a lot of fun -- especially those instructions on how to use relays at a track crossing to prevent collisions when two or more trains are running. Now hope yer not sorry you asked...<grin> -=[ Brian Johns ]=- _______________________________________________________ If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes. _______________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4013	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/14/1999
Subject: Re: Link Couplers...Does converting to knuckle ruin the value?

Well, yes it does, depending on the condition of the equipment to start with! As it can also be a bit expensive to do this to a lot of equipment, you can have a few "transition" cars around, which takes a lot less work! A transition car is one w/ KC on one end and LC on the other. For passenger sets, a baggage car is a good candidate, for freights, I'd pick a boxcar, although a flat or gon or Hopper with some weight in it would be fine too. Conversion is easily done at home, but you do have to do some careful aligning. I'm writing about this right now for the next Dispatch (if I get it in in time!) . S' David D. (Yep another shameless plug for NASG!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4014	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: coupler conversion

I found the easiest way to deal with having two types of couplers was to by an engine for my link coupler cars. No gaps,no conversion cars and a great excuse to buy another engine. The wife bought it!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4015	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: NASG Membership Time

Hi Folks, I just want to remind everyone that this is NASG membership renewal time and time for new members to sign up. NASG membership runs from June of one year to June of the next year. So if you haven't renewed yet, or if you are interested in becoming a new member, you can sign up using the handy online form from the NASG website. Just print out the form and mail it in with your dues. The NASG website is: http://trainweb.com/nasg Regards, Craig S. O'Connell NASG Website Director

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4016	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: smoke fluid and LC/KC conversion

Back a ways, someone asked how much fluid to add. Depends some on the condition of the wick (loose, soft and absorptive or hard-packed) how recently you've added any, how much you'll be running it at the time, and how smokey you like it. The original smoke-pen instructions I believe said to add 80 drops, but I need to confirm that by reading mine. That was a needle dispense with very small drops. (Can't imagine anyone really counting to 80). I use an eye dropper with a funnel and add somewhere between 15-25 drops. I've converted some to KC. It's a bitter sweet kind of thing. I like the operation of KC's better, but you do loose some value on the cars and apparently the passenger cars look better left with LC because they're closer to a scale distance apart that way. I've found that some are worth converting for play time convenience, others I leave LC, and it is good to have a few transition cars around as well (one end KC, the other LC).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4017	From: Scott Brown	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: eBay - Another AF bargain 300AC - May run, $139.00!

I sure hope Chuck Harrington is joking !!! I didn't catch any sarcasm in his message. That 300AC in excellent condition isn't worth anywhere near that price. Scott Brown sbrown@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4018	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Convention

Hi all, There has been a change in my plans and i will be attending the convention next week solo. I'd be willing to share my non-smoking room with a fellow S'er. I have reservations starting Thursday the 22nd, for three nights (22, 23 and 24). I know it's short notice but figured i check. Send email or give me a call... 603-672-1293 till Sunday then... 609-423-3069 (mon's house in NJ :) See you all there! kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4019	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: eBay - Another AF bargain 300AC - May run, $139.00!

The word "bargain" was certainly sarcasm. I would guess top dollar on this shouldn't have been more than 50 or 60 bucks? It is only $44 in Greenberg... Scott Brown wrote: > From: Scott Brown <sbrown@...> > > I sure hope Chuck Harrington is joking !!! I didn't catch > any sarcasm in his message. That 300AC in excellent > condition isn't worth anywhere near that price.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4020	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 305

>Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 20:26:06 +0000 > From: Chuck Harrington <paketpet@...> >Subject: eBay - Another AF bargain 300AC - May run, $139.00! > >It happened again. Here is a url for you eBay watchers... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=128378027 > I like the comment about the "on/off switch on the engine" Gregg Mummert gmummert@... S Gauge - the only way to Fly(er)!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4021	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: eBay - Another AF bargain 300AC - May run, $139.00!

I belive Chuck was expressing disbelief. Now where are these guys when *I* want to sell something???? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4022	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: eBay - Another AF bargain 300AC - May run, $139.00!

I know why it went for $139. The description said "There are wires going back to the tender." Imagine that! :.) --- Gregg Mummert <gmummert@...> wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=128378027 > > > > I like the comment about the "on/off switch on the > engine" >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4023	From: Neil Trump	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Ebay description, a classic!!

Here's another one to have a laugh with. They all seem to be in very good condition with no obvious defects, but do show *very* minor wear from "normal play" use. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131963392 Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4024	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: eBay - Another AF bargain 300AC - May run, $139.00!

Actually, after being on eBay many months nothing surprises me. I have seen these go real high, and also seen the opposite (though not as often). David Dewey wrote: > > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > I belive Chuck was expressing disbelief.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4025	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: My posting the other day, Fire--it's OK!

Hi all, I keep forgetting to let everyone know, the fire turned out to be a mile away, did burn a lot of acreage, but no homes, although some have black landscaping now! It looks to me like a few people were VERY lucky. But I'm OK, the trains are OK, unless the termites are eating the boxes. Back to our regular programming--"Atlantics for sale, CHEAP! Bidding starts at $115!" <G> S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4026	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Library of Congress website

I found some interesting things on the Library of Congress website Panoramic Railroad Photographs, 1851-1991 http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/pan:@FIELD(SUBJ+@band(+Railroads.+)) America from ...1939-1945 http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/fsacquery.html search for 'railroad' Railroad Maps Collection 1828-1900 http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/gmdhtml/rrhtml/rrhome.html -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4027	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Panoramic Photograph Collection

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/pnhtml/pnhome.html Panoramic Photograph Collection see transportation section, pick a railroad related picture then on the bottem of that page choose the SUBJECTS of Railroad stations or Railroads. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4028	From: Yost, Roy	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 301

I am a member of the Golden Gate American Flyer club, and have been for about 16 years. Although not very "club-active," since the meetings are so far away, I find them to be a nice group of guys. Perhaps the fellow you talked to was concentrating on something else, or not feeling well that day. If you wish to join, or just want to attend a meeting, write to me off-line and I'll put you in touch with the editor of the newsletter. Regards Roy Yost ryost@... <snip> 2) Is anyone on this list a member of a Bay Area AF/hi-railers group? Or can someone supply me with a phone number or e-mail address for someone who belongs to such a group?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4029	From: Arthur Armstrong	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay

At the risk of sounding either rude or snobbish - a risk one takes in email - may I respectfully suggest that ebay is not an appropriate subject for the S-list? I know it is an active part of some people's railroading activities but to me it is as off-topic as political jokes. It may (may!) be valid to mention train items that are currently available on ebay but to spend time and bandwidth discussing and criticizing the silliness of the offers and the bidders is not train oriented. With all due humility - Art Armstrong

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4030	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay description, a classic!!

I'm not considering a bid unless I know for sure they were the fathers or the sons, and I'm still confused on weither they were wrapped or not in that basement...(S)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4031	From: Dennis Back	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay

It has been suggested that we not talk Ebay on the list. That is off-topic. Well...I learned a good trick from a post in on a list. As a matter of fact several lists (not train related...yes there ARE other things in the world besides trains) have suggested it. The suggestion is: Look at the TOPIC of your NEW email messages. If it does not interest you...then click DELETE. It's as simple as that! Now...my feelings about high Ebay prices: 1. I, too have overpaid on an item(s). By STUPIDITY, yes. Maybe it was the FIRST time I ever saw an item...something that I NEVER thought I would see again. Something that I had as a child and missed ever since. Have you ever passed on an item that was high in price...then never saw one again and wished you had bought it? 2. Maybe by talking about the prices...some of us might try to SELL some of our unwanted *treasures* on ebay and use the money to buy something new and good. Maybe like some new "L" AF that they will produce (ha)! There is NOTHING wrong with selling less than perfect items on Ebay if we list them honestly. This same topic about "LOOK WHAT'S HAPPENED ON EBAY" appears in other non-train related lists, too. Again....if you see a topic that does NOT interest you....DELETE. 3. Ebay is in a way like buying from a local Antique Store that caters to tourists. The prices are many times high. We laugh at the prices and then say to ourselves "we can do BETTER buying from so-and-so the Train Dealer. 4. By now after reading all this....you probably wished you had taken my advice and hit DELETE! 5. Good night 'S' people. 6. Dennis 7. Miami 8. :-) === Dennis Back 7875 S.W. 146 St. Miami, Fl. 33158-2013

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4032	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay

>may I respectfully suggest that ebay is not an appropriate subject for the S-list. I discovered Ebay about the same time as I did this list. Both have had a major influence on me and my interest in the trains I've had since I was 4 years old back in 1955. Ebay's significance to American Flyer cannot be ignored. I am just now in the process of completing an Ebay transaction for an AF beacon that will replace a Lionel beacon that my father got me back in the 50's. That beacon has always bothered me since it's the only non-Flyer piece I had and I've wanted to replace it for 40 years! Ebay made it possible. I'll probably sell the Lionel Beacon on Ebay; I think I even still have the original box. I'll probably only get 30 dollars for it. May I suggest that you use a filter to automatically delete e-mails containing Ebay in the subject?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4033	From: Dennis Back	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Sell or keep the "L" ???

Scott Holm wrote that he had a "L" beacon light that his dad had given him as a kid and he wanted to replace with the *real* thing (AF). A similar thing happened to me. After over forty years of having a metal truss bridge....I discovered that it was a MARX LINE bridge. I loved that bridge as a kid. It always was at the back of my floor layout every Xmas. I STILL love it and now have it on my AF permanent layout. I'm not sure who gave it to me though....my father and my uncle both alternated buying me trains and accessories for Xmas when I was little. I often wondered why they would have bought me a MARX bridge when everything else was AF. They must have thought it was neat or something or maybe they just couldn't find an AF bridge. I'd love to ask them...but they are both gone now. I would NEVER sell that bridge. Dennis Miami

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4034	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Trains Unlimited

The history channel has a show on as I write this all about the history of toy trains.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4035	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Brand L beacon

At the risk of being burned at the stake(steak?wood fire?mmmmm bra-b-q!!),IMHO the brand L beacon is so far superior to Flyer that you may well want to keep it; the updraft principle that makes the Flyer beacon work(sometimes) will eventually drive you crazy.Because it just doesn't work very reliably. light the fire,I'm ready-j marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4036	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Brand L beacon

The Lionel beacon has not worked reliably for me anyway. The little pegs on the rubber gasket keep flattening out. It's sitting there now motionless again. Oh well, I guess I will keep it if only for it's sentimental value, which is worth more than $30 bucks. By the way, the Trains Unlimited show on the History channel turned out to be more the history of Lionel, with AF getting about a 30 second mention. It's funny, I always turn on the History channel while I'm working on the trains and I was glueing the windows into a Mystic talking station and all of a sudden this show comes on and there's an AF talking station on TV! >From: Toyguy5344@... >At the risk of being burned at the stake(steak?wood fire?mmmmm bra-b-q!!),IMHO the brand L beacon is so far superior to Flyer that you may well want to keep it; the updraft principle that makes the Flyer beacon work(sometimes) will eventually drive you crazy.Because it just doesn't work very reliably. light the fire,I'm ready-j marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4037	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/15/1999
Subject: Re: Trains Unlimited

I believe the posting of TV shows that are only on cable unfair to those of us too CHEAP! to buy cable!!! I'm missing some neat programming, including the fifth year of Babylon 5!! (oh, this is *really* off subject now! Sorry) Frustrated in Oroville, David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4038	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: Brand L beacon

In a message dated 7/15/99 11:50:53 PM, Toyguy5344@... writes: << the updraft principle that makes the Flyer beacon work(sometimes) will eventually drive you crazy >> Doug of Port Lines Hobbies has a beacon and bulb that he guarentees will work if used together. I have found that, indeed, they do. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4039	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay

In a message dated 7/15/99 8:41:43 PM, aarmstro@... writes: << may I respectfully suggest that ebay is not an appropriate subject for the S-list? >> Sorry, but e-commerce is becoming increasingly important, for both good and ill, in the buying and selling of toy trains, including AF. It is already affecting the traditional train shows in terms of what does or does not show up at those venues. You might as well ask the tide to not come in. :)) RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4040	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: pen smoke fluid dispenser

I checked my Dispenser #23028 and the instruction card inside says for HO use 40-50 drops, for S-Gauge use 70-80 drops. Wonder how many shirt pockets were ruined with those things? Well anyway, there's one data point for how much smoke fluid to add. The other would be if anyone has seen how many eye dropper drops it takes to fill one of the old red smoke fluid capsules that AF used to sell and are now dried up.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4041	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Smoke fluid

I bought a big bottle of cheap lamp oil at K-mart for $1.99 to use for smoke fluid, (avoiding the more expensive smokeless oil, duh!) and it works great. Lot's of thick, white smoke. It doesn't have any smell though. Is there anything I can add to it to make it smell like the oil in the original Flyer smoke capsules? What was the scent in those anyway?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4042	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: Lighting

Hello Again, I wanted to know if you folks know of a place where I can purchase light bulbs and screw sockets with pig tails for lighting in buildings...I am looking for about 100 lights, I will be working on my layout in about a month....and I been seeing these low voltage bulbs for about $1.00 a piece...a little rich....I appreciate your help, comments or suggestion on what is being used these days....it has been about 25 years since I had my layout up....thanks in advance, Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4043	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: Smoke fluid

The scent was provided by oil of cedarwood, as I recall. Jay Mellon New Orleans, LA > ---------- > > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > I bought a big bottle of cheap lamp oil at K-mart for $1.99 > to use for smoke fluid, (avoiding the more expensive > smokeless oil, duh!) and it works great. Lot's of thick, > white smoke. It doesn't have any smell though. Is there > anything I can add to it to make it smell like the oil in > the original Flyer smoke capsules? What was the scent in > those anyway? >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4044	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: E-bay and Rocket Launcher

1. I like the e-bay discussions as it keeps us up to date on the marketing and selling price of trains, which many of us find useful. If it seems excessive, that's because this list grabs hold of an idea, chews on it for a few days to a week and then moves on to something else. I really like that behavior. 2. This morning my granddaughter and I were playing with the rocket launcher. Since the car is just sitting in front of the fireplace without any power, she would load it and I would manually pull the lever back to launch it. After about 15 times (3 1/2 year olds are into repetition), the latching mechanism stopped working. In other words, you can push the rocket down, but it won't stay there. I had to go to work, so I didn't have time to look at the problem. Does anyone have any ideas as to what it wrong? Peter Ervin PS: I wonder if the military came up with the idea in the 70s or 80s of the mobile missle launcher after seeing or remembering an AF rocket launcher?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4045	From: Bill Porter	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: Lighting

Jeff, Look into old Christmas lights. These things are pretty cheap. Once they are no longer reliable enough for home decorating - after a couple of years - they can be used in model railroad settings. The sockets work just fine. the lamps are rated 2.5 to 3.5 v depending on how many are on the string. For simplicity, wire enough in series so that no current limiting resistors are required. I like to use a separate transformer (or DC power pack if one is handy) to run them. After a few years of pack ratting, I have hundreds of the bulbs and sockets. An extra benefit is that the wire is pretty flexible and can be used for a variety of accessory or control panel applications. Good Luck, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA <findit@...> To: Dave Heine <dheine@...>; S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Friday, July 16, 1999 9:50 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Re: Lighting >From: "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> > >Hello Again, > >I wanted to know if you folks know of a place where I can purchase light >bulbs and screw sockets with pig tails for lighting in buildings...I am >looking for about 100 lights, I will be working on my layout in about a >month....and I been seeing these low voltage bulbs for about $1.00 a >piece...a little rich....I appreciate your help, comments or suggestion >on what is being used these days....it has been about 25 years since I >had my layout up....thanks in advance, Jeff > > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >The Best Place to Buy Movies - Reel.com ><a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/reel1 ">Click Here</a> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4046	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: E-bay and Rocket Launcher

If you're lucky, a common cause of this problem is that the fins get pushed down on the rocket body and prevent the rocket from fully entering the launch tube to set the latch. Also, check to be sure the retaining hardware under the launcher on the car is still tight. Peter Ervin wrote: > > From: Peter Ervin <pjervin@...> > > 1. I like the e-bay discussions as it keeps us up to date on the marketing > and selling price of trains, which many of us find useful. If it seems > excessive, that's because this list grabs hold of an idea, chews on it for > a few days to a week and then moves on to something else. I really like > that behavior. > > 2. This morning my granddaughter and I were playing with the rocket > launcher. Since the car is just sitting in front of the fireplace without > any power, she would load it and I would manually pull the lever back to > launch it. After about 15 times (3 1/2 year olds are into repetition), the > latching mechanism stopped working. In other words, you can push the > rocket down, but it won't stay there. > > I had to go to work, so I didn't have time to look at the problem. Does > anyone have any ideas as to what it wrong? > > Peter Ervin > > PS: I wonder if the military came up with the idea in the 70s or 80s of > the mobile missle launcher after seeing or remembering an AF rocket > launcher? > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > The planet's eCenter for health & well-being. PlanetRX. > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/planetrx1 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4047	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: coal loaders

Your experience please. What coal loaders work well? And here's the warning, this request transcends manufacturers - - as much as I love ACG AF, I've already opened my accessories to Marx and the "L" word. In particular, price aside, if you had to rate the following how would they come out in your opinion for layout operational fun (action oriented, reliable, don't-make-a-big-mess, and suitable for operation with AF from a proportion and physical positioning point of view). - AF 785 - AF 752A (3 button control) - Lionel 497 (lifts a cradle of coal up the side to the top) - Lionel 97 (chain with little scoops takes coal up to the top) - Lionel 397 (rubber belt with ridges takes coal to end of boom over car) PS On the L97, I noticed a knob and button on the controller. How does this work? Is the knob for activating the conveyer and the button for dumping the tower's load into a car waiting below? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4048	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay

I agree. Please consider that Ebay does not have an s scale location and that not many items in S are sold on it overall. The delete button is an easy tool to use. I have many e-newsletters in my box everyday. Like the daily newspaper, I don't read most of the articles but I do scan and find the ones that I want. My suggestion: Put one of the following along with the item description in the subject: FS (For Sale) WTB (Wanted to buy) Ebay Perhaps there could be an S buy/sell list created.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4049	From: JFR040436@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/16/1999
Subject: Another Publication Dies

Some on the list may remember, 1/16"S"cale Railroading magazine. It died about this time back in 1992. Today by snail mail I got the word that Bill Wade is pulling the plug on his, S/Sn3 Modeling Guide. I'm sure many of us are going to miss it. Are there not enough of us in "scale" to support a magazine that is s"scale only"?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4050	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Value vs price: A Flyer Atlantic tale

I've read the comments about the eBay $140 300AC Atlantic with mixed feelings. I wasn't a model railroader, let alone an S-scaler or a Flyer collector, when I walked into Des Plaines Hobby in Des Plaines, Illinois last year. My friend Andy McBride wanted to check out some HO kits, so I tagged along for fun (I was, and still am, a railfan). Andy is also a hi-railer, so I joined him when he looked at Des Plaines' AF equipment. That's when I saw it: The AF 300AC, just liek the one from my childhood. Also in the case was a lighted AF caboose and an NP reefer. How much was the Atlantic? $200. I didn't think twice when I told the clerk to wrap it for me, along with the reefer ($50) and the caboose ($15). A few months later Mike Schafer, another Flyer friend, told me, "You overpaid for the Atlantic, it shouldn't have cost more than $40." You know what? Mike was right. I overpaid. Andy consoled me by pointing out that the 300AC was exceptionally clean and ran like a deer when he put it on this layout (for those curious, Andy hadn't bought any used Flyer engines for years, so he was out of touch with AF prices; he thought the market-value had simply increased). The moral of the story? I bought a Greenburg guide, started hanging around swap meets, and joined this list. I became knowledgable about Flyer prices. I even found some TCA/AF sellers and stopped huntiing for stuff on eBay. Thanks to some Bay Area S-scalers (Lee Johnson, among others), I am now an S-scaler AND a hi-railer. Was all that worth $200? Considering how much fun I've had since then and how much I learned, I'd have to say yes. But then, that's the kind of touchy-feely guy I am! Take care, Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4051	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: MESA me, missing you

I just received my new issue of the NASG magazine. Kudos to editor Jeff Madden (who I used to work at Kalmbach with in the Dark Old Days, not that it matters). Question: Any word on those Burlington black covered hoppers fromt he MESA crowd? I see they cashed my check, but no sign of the cars in my P.O. box. No big deal, I'm just curious. Lord knows I have enough to deal with now that I bought a bunch of used scale AM diesels (the FAs and RS3 were marketed by S-Helper, according to the seller). Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4052	From: Don Thompson	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: MESA me, missing you

Dear Paul, The MESA black CB&Q three bay PS-2 covered hoppers, The NASG 1999 convention M&StL 2 and 3 bay , RSSVP Jack Frost 2 bay as well as the rest of the 2 bay and 3 bay covered hoppers arrived last Tuesday at our new warehouse. The MESA cars, NASG convention cars and RSSVP cars were shipped to Glen Sponholtz the same day via UPS. We are still shipping the rest of the cars and will finish on Monday. Don Thompson "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > I just received my new issue of the NASG magazine. > Kudos to editor Jeff Madden (who I used to work at > Kalmbach with in the Dark Old Days, not that it > matters). > > Question: Any word on those Burlington black covered > hoppers fromt he MESA crowd? I see they cashed my > check, but no sign of the cars in my P.O. box. > > No big deal, I'm just curious. Lord knows I have > enough to deal with now that I bought a bunch of used > scale AM diesels (the FAs and RS3 were marketed by > S-Helper, according to the seller). > > Paul Schneider > San Francisco > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Books, music, auctions, and more. Amazon.com! > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/Amazon6 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4053	From: Richard	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Last call for SMG ???

Please, someone tell me this aint so!!! Had wondered why I hadn't recieved an issue for a while. In event of actuality, then a big thankyou to Bill Damn shame, damn shame >:~(( Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4054	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Last call for SMG ???

Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote: > > Can someone tell me (us) what this is all about????????? Ed L. A post on S-Trains indicated Bill Wade is notifying subscribers via snail mail that S/Sn3 Modeling Guide is ceasing publication. Here is the message: + From: JFR040436@... + + Some on the list may remember, 1/16"S"cale Railroading magazine. It died + about this time back in 1992. Today by snail mail I got the word that Bill + Wade is pulling the plug on his, S/Sn3 Modeling Guide. I'm sure many of us + are going to miss it. Are there not enough of us in "scale" to support a + magazine that is s"scale only"? I haven't received a notice in the mail yet and I haven't seen any other posts regarding this yet so I'm still a little skeptical until we hear it from Bill himself or see something on his web page. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4055	From: Richard.Spritz@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 307

Message: 12 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:41:36 -0400 (EDT) From: JFR040436@... Subject: Another Publication Dies Some on the list may remember, 1/16"S"cale Railroading magazine. It died about this time back in 1992. Today by snail mail I got the word that Bill Wade is pulling the plug on his, S/Sn3 Modeling Guide. I'm sure many of us are going to miss it. Are there not enough of us in "scale" to support a magazine that is s"scale only"? Probably not, when you consider the small number of S-gaugers overall, the small fraction into S-scale, and the existence of other S publications. I am not into S-scale; I am into tinplate and AF. But it seemed amazing to me that, when my wife and I walked into 'Denver's S-Scale Connection' store, looking for items we might buy for our new layout ('Caboose Hobbies' having almost nothing in S), the proprietor completely ignored us for the 20 minutes we were in the (quite small) store. Like we were non-existent. Perhaps SO many people come into that store and he does SUCH high volume that the proprieter is prefectly willing to have motivated buyers walk out, planning never to return. He must be VERY busy, what with all of the S-scalers he has to service. All I know is that, had I been an naive but interested walk-in, an opportunity to get me into S-scale was lost. I would have walked out in disgust and gone to Caboose Hobbies next door, and would have bought G-gauge, HO, or whatever. Anything but S-scale. Rich Spritz

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4056	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: S/Sn3 Modeling Guide - R.I.P.

Howdy Friends Yes, the S/Sn3 Modeling Guide has ceased publication. Diane and I knew when I started this publication 6.5 years ago to expect to lose money for the first two-three years until we had become "established" in the industry. Sadly, we have lost more money than we ever expected to lose and continue to do so. And while I have kept hoping the next issue would be the one to turn things around, the reality is that the advertising base continues to shrink as does the readership. Not sure why. The readers liked it. The advertisers noted that they got responses. Go figure.... Anyway, below is a copy of the letter that was mailed on Wednesday morning. Sorry that the snail-mail is slow going west. Take care, Bill "Dear Subscribers After some very difficult thoughts this past weekend, and six-plus years of very hard work, we have decided to stop publishing the S/Sn3 Modeling Guide; the March/April 1999 was the final issue. While some may think otherwise, the reason for this difficult decision is pure economics. While waiting for the scanner to be repaired - the hardware problem that greatly delayed the May/June - I gave a hard look at the books and pondered the magazine�s future. For the last two years, each issue of the magazine has lost money. The number of subscribers has been slowly shrinking, and the number of advertisers has decreased also. We have tried every way possible to increase the readership and advertising base, but it just has not happened. Looking at the numbers for the May/June issue showed that another big loss was coming. While I have tried to remain positive about it all, it is time to finally face reality. In addition to the financial loss, the small number of articles we have received has made it very stressful to put together a well-balanced magazine. It has been a struggle for the last three years to make each issue look good, and many issues were not up to our expectations of the magazine. Usually, we have only a handful of articles in the file to consider for each issue, and sometimes less than what we needed. We could have accepted the Flyer articles we were offered, and that would have also increased circulation, but that was not the intent of this publication. Enclosed with this letter is a credit memo from B.T.S. for the balance of your subscription. For now, we do have a good supply of back issues and you may use your credit to complete your collection, if you are missing a few issues, or use it for any of the products in stock at B.T.S. After the NMRA convention, we will look over the articles we are holding and will either send them back to the authors, or if they agree, forward them on to our friends at Railroad Model Craftsman and Model Railroading, both excellent modeling magazines. I encourage you to write articles about your modeling in S scale and submit them to the mainstream publications. The growth of the scale will be greatly helped by having others see what we have in S today. I am truly sorry to have to do this. We are not deserting S scale, but it is time for us to cut our losses and move on to other S scale projects. Diane and I have always appreciated your support of our publishing efforts and the many positive comments you have made, and are grateful to have had an opportunity to create the S/Sn3 Modeling Guide for your enjoyment. Respectfully Bill Wade, Jr. -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4057	From: borj	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: e-Bay

Something you guys might think about as far as eBay goes. There are not to many places that guys like me can get started in the hobby again, where we are not in the mercy of someone's misconception of the Greenbergs rating, at least with eBay you can control what you purchase (sometimes) and see what your getting most of the time. I've made some really good purchases and some not so good. But that's life. If you want the piece you'll pay the price. At least in the beginning. Bill Sandrus Boise ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4058	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Spritz re S Scale Connection

I think most hobby-shop proprietors are genuinely conscientious. Most, in my experience, assume that people like to do solitary browsing. I personally hate it if/when I am approached by a sales person in a hobby store. I am a browser. But if I want something in particular, I go up to the counter and ask for it. So I suggest that if you want assistance, you should ask. Dick Karnes

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4059	From: Dale Smith	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: Ebay description, a classic!!

Actually on this one, I would give the seller a break here. His pictures were fantastic, even though his description was a bit inaccurate. Remember, he said he was new to toy trains. From his pictures, I could identify it as a 1946 (round head valve gear rivets) smoke in tender Hudson, with dirty, perhaps rusty, side rods, flaking paint, bent and probably jammed valve gear, rusty motor, missing right front handrail on tender, right boiler handrail bent, ladder rail on tender bent. The question I pose to the rest of you is how would you grade this locomotive. Here we have very detailed pictures from the internet that we can all see. I don't consider myself an expert on this subject and would be interested in what the rest of you think. I would probably give it a fair to good rating. Fair because of the paint flaking and rust, but not all that bad. The price? A bit high at $100 and they haven't stopped yet. In fact that $100 is the first bid!! David Dewey, remember this guy's name and send him a direct e-mail and ask him to make an offer when you want to sell something. I bought a similar Hudson at a train show about a year and a half ago for $45. Condition was better and cleaner with no rust, but SIT unit was missing. I lucked into a couple of used units for 10-15 each and was able to get a working unit out of it. As to E-Bay price discussions on the group, I think it is very appropriate. Price information is of great interest to collectors or collector/operators on this list. I'm not interested in Proto64 stuff, but a lot of people are. I just pass through it quickly. Those who aren't interested in E-Bay info can do the same. Dale Smith Neil Trump wrote: > From: "Neil Trump" <neil_trump@...> > > Here's another one to have a laugh with. > > They all seem to be in very good condition with no obvious defects, but do show *very* minor wear from "normal play" use. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131963392 > > Neil T. > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Congratulations MilitaryEFM. Our latest ONElist of the week. > http://www.onelist.com > How is ONElist changing YOUR life? Visit our homepage and let us know! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4060	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 307

The guy who works at the S Scale Conection is just an employee. He didn't say much to me either, but when he did speak, it was to tell me that everything in the store but the brass was 25% off. I guess their motto was: "Speak softly but carry a big discount". I'm sorry to see yet another S-scale magazine stop publishing. Bill did say in his letter that he did not get many articles sent to him for inclusion in the magazine. He was even willing to pay for them unlike some other S publications. Maybe when all is said and done, there aren't enough scalers to support a special interest publication and we'll have to settle for occasional S-scale articles in MR, RMC, etc. Sad! Roy Hoffman -----Original Message----- From: Richard.Spritz@... <Richard.Spritz@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Saturday, July 17, 1999 12:40 PM Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Digest Number 307 >From: Richard.Spritz@... > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:41:36 -0400 (EDT) > From: JFR040436@... >Subject: Another Publication Dies > >Some on the list may remember, 1/16"S"cale Railroading magazine. It died >about this time back in 1992. Today by snail mail I got the word that >Bill >Wade is pulling the plug on his, S/Sn3 Modeling Guide. I'm sure many of >us >are going to miss it. Are there not enough of us in "scale" to support a >magazine that is s"scale only"? > >Probably not, when you consider the small number of S-gaugers overall, the >small fraction into S-scale, and the existence of other S publications. I >am not into S-scale; I am into tinplate and AF. But it seemed amazing to me >that, when my wife and I walked into 'Denver's S-Scale Connection' store, >looking for items we might buy for our new layout ('Caboose Hobbies' having >almost nothing in S), the proprietor completely ignored us for the 20 >minutes we were in the (quite small) store. Like we were non-existent. >Perhaps SO many people come into that store and he does SUCH high volume >that the proprieter is prefectly willing to have motivated buyers walk out, >planning never to return. He must be VERY busy, what with all of the >S-scalers he has to service. All I know is that, had I been an naive but >interested walk-in, an opportunity to get me into S-scale was lost. I would >have walked out in disgust and gone to Caboose Hobbies next door, and would >have bought G-gauge, HO, or whatever. Anything but S-scale. > >Rich Spritz > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Your anytime, anywhere sports store. Fogdog Sports. ><a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/fogdog1 ">Click Here</a> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4061	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: Spritz re S Scale Connection

Hmmm Two years ago we were in Denver, and I did the obligatory visit to Caboose Hobbies. While it is a nice store, I was sorely disapointed in their S selection (uh, non-selection, that is!). But, even though I asked about S, no one directed me to any other nearby or distant store. So there is an S store next door? Sounds like maybe I didn't miss much. Maybe the counter people get their training from the Red Caboose people.<G> S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4062	From: Alan Evans	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Trade: AM Pennsy for NYC units

TRADE American Models red Pennsy A-B-A PA Alcos in DC hi rail (no bell or whistle) for New York Central set DC hi rail AM A-B-A Alco Set. Only test run this set. Alan Evans, (614) 471-7277 (days) or 614-471-7701 (evenings)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4063	From: Richard	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: How to fill the void??

Where to now?? For those of us wanting to push the S-Scale barrow, a battle is lost, the war still goes on. Best news , no one killed , as they say. (with apologies to CD) It is the best of times, it is the worst of times....at the end of the day they are these times, and they are ours. Other than possibly greater use of the Net as a medium, and given the loss of a Quality banner , how might we continue the good fight . Might we approach S-Gaugian with renewed vigour as a champion of our cause...granted some might say that Don has always given pages to this, but maybe we need to revisit this stalwart of 1:64 railroading. Maybe we might persuade him to extend Sn3 modeler from two to four issuesa year and to include standard guage as well (yeah I know , recreating the S/Sn3 guide in defacto guise, is that SO BAD??) I have yet to have any correspondence with the gentelman, maybe someone else (you listening Jeff?? ) can make an approach. Anyone with any pull with the majors, this is the time to have a quiet word about including a few more 1:64 articles. What other methods can we implement ?? Thanks Bill, and thanks Ed and also to those others with the Herald etc. It has all made a difference., and I for one appreciate it. Also plaudits to those utilizing the web to showcase the best size in the hobby. >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4064	From: Richard Karnes	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: How to fill the void??

With reference to the note below from Richard Snook: Don't expect a commercial venture to fill the void. I'd throw in my lot with the NASG. An influx of scale people would be good for the organization. And the NASG has a magazine that accepts articles from its readership... Might accept more ads too. Dick Karnes > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > Where to now?? > > Other than possibly greater use of the Net as a medium, and given the > loss of a Quality banner , how might we continue the good fight . Might > we approach S-Gaugian with renewed vigour as a champion of our > cause...granted some might say that Don has always given pages to this, > but maybe we need to revisit this stalwart of 1:64 railroading. > > Maybe we might persuade him to extend Sn3 modeler from two to four > issuesa year and to include standard guage as well (yeah I know , > recreating the S/Sn3 guide in defacto guise, is that SO BAD??) > > I have yet to have any correspondence with the gentelman, maybe someone > else (you listening Jeff?? ) can make an approach. > > Anyone with any pull with the majors, this is the time to have a quiet > word about including a few more 1:64 articles. > > What other methods can we implement ??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4065	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: AC power

Hi guys (and gals?) I'm not converting to DC, but I'm having a great time putting together some interesting locos (0-4-0 from a Casey Jones, streetcar from an old handcar chassis, etc.). I was wondering, is there a source for AC motors for modeling similar to DC? I bought a stereo system at a garage sale last summer. Since I didn't need the turntable, I started "parting it out" for screws and other treasures. The whole thing cost me $10.00. Darned if that beggar wasn't powered by an AC 12-18 volt motor. I hooked it up to a transformer, and it ran great! It's waiting for me to figure out how to get the juice to and from the wheels of a wooden interurban I was given. Any ideas on reversing homemade engines? Thanks, Jacques P.S. I hit the Theodore Tugboat section again. I picked up a small crane. It looks pretty cool next to the sawmill. You scale guys could probably make it look decent with some weathering. It looks like a toy on my layout. It fits right in : )

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4066	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Brass Alloy AM Flex Track

Hi All, I'm seriously looking at the American Models brass alloy flex track for my new layout. I have read plenty about how brass is not as good as the standard track alloy. Does anyone have experience with the AM track. I just got a sample and it looks real nice. I like the uneven ties. However, if it doesn't wear well or has significant corrosion problems because it is brass I want to look for other track. I want to run my high rail AF stuff as well as my scale stuff on the same track. But I don't want to use my AF track anymore. In fact I have a lot of it to sell along with new repro rubber roadbed if anyone is interested. I also have 3 or 4 pairs of switches in real nice condition. I will probably sell it all on eBay. Comments on the AM flex track or other similar flex track would be appreciated! Thanks, --jon ------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Marinello PulsePoint Communications (805) 566-2000 Email jon.marinello@... Web: http://www.plpt.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4067	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: Cannibalizing engines

In a message dated 7/8/99 5:52:09 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << As someone who has a love for AF trains, I can't bring myself to disassemble my them into pieces and part it out to get more money at sale time. Doesn't seem right, does it? >> I have to agree. I can tell you that even as a Parts Dealer, I HATE to cannabalize any piece of AF for its parts. I ONLY do it when the item is essentially a broken destroyed piece to begin with. I've even got items such as a nice 290 engine, but with the cowcatcher snapped off, sitting on the shelf because it bothers me to take it apart!!!! <<I recently bid on some 336 wheels, but gave up when they went for something like $80.00. Way too much just for a new set of tires. >> On this I have to disagree with you. Assuming it was all 8 wheels, $80 is a good deal !!! Northern drivers are VERY tough to come by. I'd pay $10 apiece for them anytime........and that's for resale purposes!!!! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4068	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: Re: How to fill the void??

Well, I'm sorry to see the S/Sn3 mag go, I think it has always been held in high esteem (or is the "esteam"?), and will be missed. Maybe this lethargic economy we are in is to blame (ulike the "booming" economy the Gov't. claims!). As to filling the Void, looks like an opportune time for the Dispatch! S Gaugain is nice, but the Dispatch is the NASG organ, and I think the club is pulling us all together for S. At least that's the direction I'm reading from here. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4069	From: Richard	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: A disPATCH to cover the hole??

Since my recent posting a few have as indeed did Jeff himself hope that the Dispatch would help to fill the void...indeed I hope it does as well. Now don't get me wrong here, because I do indeed value the efforts of the NASG, Jeff and his crew do a marvellous job. I look forward to the mag in the letter box. ..."don't expect a Commercial Mag to fill the hole".......I sort offeel that some sort of commercial effort is exactly what IS needed to help out here. The NASG Dispatch works well....but it is preaching to the converted and we gladly and thankfully recieve in into our modelling. But there ARE a lot of Scalers who aren't 100% enamoured with the NASG, rightly or wrongly....this just IS the situation. please keep in mind that S/Sn3 was a "refuge" from other non-scale efforts. I do not wish to offenfd anyone's sensibilities, or indded start a debate on the merits of either persuasion....each to their own and more power for it. Maybe there aren't the numbers to make a scale mag work??? I really hope in my heart that that isn't the case....Bill has obvious proof that it indeed might be. The Dispatch reaches how many ?? definitely not the numbers of S-Gaugian maybe the match the size of readership of Sn3 (Dons not Bills) . There is the perception thing...I likened S/SN3 to say Mainline Modeller in its character...and Dispatch to NMRA's Bulletin....all fine publications but different reasons for being. Dick, Ed and Bill..Sam and others probably are absolutely right that I shouldn't expect a commercially orientated mag to work for us scalers...expect ..no.......desire .....YES I honestly believe that S-Scale Standard Guage modelers have more in common with their Narrow gauge cousins than say Flyer orientated collectors and operators..Hi Railers somewhere in between maybe...but lets not kid anyone..if the original desire to have an organ reflecting Scaler issues did not seem desirable and indeed valid then why did 3/16ths Scale Modelind and S/Sn3 Modeling Guide exist??? Is it viable ??? I feel unsuitably qualified to answer. Would I subscribe to one if it existed...I did...would i do so again...where do I send the check?? This has got to be at times the weirdest scale to model in.....I love it...but its damn frustrasting. >:~[] Richard oh yeah..why am I triple posting...because of the very reason that we are so diversified....just delete the other one or two..it takes only seconds..thankyou

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4070	From: Richard	Date: 7/17/1999
Subject: sorry ..wrong grouping!!

Ed My apologies, I did indeed mean Frank..couldn't place the name to the job !!! Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote:. > > An interesting question. The answer depends on what the objective is. > Would someone care to define an objective and see if we all can agree on > it? > > > > > Mr. Heimburger has repeatedly and publically stated he will publish any > scale material received. He does not pay for articles/photos. Many > folks feel that S scale is not shown in a positive light when intermixed > with American Flyer content. > > > Anyone with any pull with the majors, > > I would suggest RMC and Mainline Modeler. Both are very understanding > of minority scale problems and both have offered to print quality S > scale articles. Ditto for the NMRA Bulletin. But they will not create > the articles themselves nor will they spend a lot of time beating the > bushes. It is up to S scalers to send in stuff if they wish to see it > in print. Actually, RMC stated to me a few months ago that the Sept. > 1999 issue would have an article featuring an S scale layout. Unless > they have changed their article lineup, it should be on the street in > about three or four weeks. > > Keep in mind that the magazines only print what they receive. Once upon > a time in the far distant past, NASG attempted to motivate S > manufacturers to send in a "new" product announcement to the major > magazines for their existing/old products. The theory was that non-S > readers would consider these to be new products since they had never > heard of them before. Thus, interest in S scale would be stimulated. > Not one manufacturer would do this. Another interesting idea bit the > dust. > > > What other methods can we implement ?? > > How about an online magazine in order to eliminate the cost of printing > and mailing? Is there a way to prevent readers from making duplicates > for their buddies? How about working cooperatively with NASG to improve > their scale coverage and reduce AF coverage? However, if the goal is to > attract new S folks from the other scales, some of us feel that mixing > AF and scale is not the way to do it. How about a full page > advertisement in RMC shared by 12 companies -- each paying for a 1/12 > page ad. Call it the "S Page" or whatever. This idea was met with a > dismal response when presented to S manufacturers. > > > Thanks Bill, and thanks Ed and also to those others with the Herald > > You are welcome. However, I object to being lumped in the same category > as the most recent owner of the Herald. Both myself and Bill Wade made > good the unused portions of subscriptions. I offered subscriptions to > other major magazines or cash refunds. Bill Wade offered credit memos > good toward any product in stock at BTS. Both of these are not > inexpensive gestures and should be applauded. Clap, clap for Bill Wade. > > By contrast, the most recent owner of the Herald (NOT Frank Titman) > simply closed up shop and moved out of state. He did not notify his > subscribers of anything and left many of his suppliers hanging as well. > At least one small mom & pop printing company was forced out of business > due to his lack of ethical business practices. This was the same > printing company that was printing the NASG Dispatch at the time and > NASG was then forced to find another printer at a much higher price. The > stories go on and on, but I would simply ask not to be lumped in the > same reference with the most recent owner of the Herald. It annoys me > greatly that NASG didn't even have the courage to rescind the honor it > had previously bestowed upon this individual. Off soapbox now. > >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4071	From: George Courtney	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Loss of S/Sn3 Modeling Guide.

I just came to this board about a week ago and until tonight was unsure if there were any other scalers here. I've never owned a piece of American Flyer having come to S from HO about 3 years ago. I'm aware that without the AF guys there would be no S scalers still I hope maybe Bill can give out a subscription list and maybe a special interest group could be formed with xeroxed newsletters etc. Even though we may only constitute 20% of the market or less we help keep prices down for the AF people buying Am. Models or SHS or Port Hobbies cars. Don's fine pub tends to feature articles that apply to the sixties and seventies for S Scale at least from this ex-HOer's perspective. How are the mfrs. going to reach us now? Perhaps this board can be the source of a list of scalers that could go the newsletter route. A NASG special interest group a la the NMRA?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4072	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: How to fill the void??

I do not know why you are saying thanks to Ed. The 3/16 S Scale magazine was just starting to break even ( or so I was told) and he got mad when his Editor quit and pull the plug for that reason on the magazine. Larry Richard wrote: > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > Where to now?? > > For those of us wanting to push the S-Scale barrow, a battle is lost, > the war still goes on. Best news , no one killed , as they say. > > (with apologies to CD) > > It is the best of times, it is the worst of times....at the end of the > day they are these times, and they are ours. > > Other than possibly greater use of the Net as a medium, and given the > loss of a Quality banner , how might we continue the good fight . Might > we approach S-Gaugian with renewed vigour as a champion of our > cause...granted some might say that Don has always given pages to this, > but maybe we need to revisit this stalwart of 1:64 railroading. > > Maybe we might persuade him to extend Sn3 modeler from two to four > issuesa year and to include standard guage as well (yeah I know , > recreating the S/Sn3 guide in defacto guise, is that SO BAD??) > > I have yet to have any correspondence with the gentelman, maybe someone > else (you listening Jeff?? ) can make an approach. > > Anyone with any pull with the majors, this is the time to have a quiet > word about including a few more 1:64 articles. > > What other methods can we implement ?? > > Thanks Bill, and thanks Ed and also to those others with the Herald etc. > It has all made a difference., and I for one appreciate it. Also > plaudits to those utilizing the web to showcase the best size in the > hobby. > > >:~)) Richard > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Attention ONElist list owners. > http://www.onelist.com > We've just added a "NO ATTACHMENTS" option. See homepage for details. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4073	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Alloy AM Flex Track

I have been using AM track on my small,8'X8', layout for two years and have had no problems with wear. About 15 years ago, I built the "HO Gauge Railroad that Grows and Grows" using Atlas brass track and had to operate trains every day to keep the rails clean. If I went a for a period of three days or more without operations, I had to clean the track with a "Bright Boy" track ereaser. With the AM track I have not run into any such problems, the only time I clean the track is if some one is coming to visit, just to insure trouble free running. All my locos are from AM and SHS, all my cars are equipped with the new metal hi-rail wheels from SHS and AM. I have been very pleased with the AM track, but I am planning to start using the new SHS track as soon as the wide radius curves become available. You may want to check out the new SHS line, allthough they do not make a flex track. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4074	From: busy-boy@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Lionel's New Website

Dear Track Gang: I viewed Lionel's new site today. Flyer is conspicuously absent. I sent the following letter in their e-mail link: Sirs: I notice that there is no mention of American Flyer anywhere on your new website. A search routine yielded an "I'm sorry, no information about that product" reply. I, and all of the other heavily committed S-gaugers who annually spend thousands each on this hobby, would like a frank and thoughtful answer regarding Lionel's plans for the Flyer line. I am posting a copy of this letter on the S-Trains Mail List and will post your reply there also. Cordially, Chris Zizzo What do you think the answer will be? CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4075	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: Loss of S/Sn3 Modeling Guide.

Hi all S'ers Yes, there are Scale people here, as well as "proto 64" types, Modern, Transitions era, pre-1900s, narrow, electric, etc. etc. I will admit that we probably have a preponderance of Hi-rail & AF, but we are all in the same scale and no group should consider itself the "poor cousin"--the whole is greater than the sum of its parts!! Just because I choose to run my AC powered "toys" doesn't mean I don't appreciate (and am amazed!) at the modeling abilities of others, and enjoy reading about them too. You might have to "shout" a bit to be heard above the din of reverse unit, eBay, and other talk! Never owned a piece of AF?? Wow! The significance of this is that others are being attracted to our scale because of its superior quality of size, and of the increasing amount of "stuff" being made. This is perhaps the best news ever, as it insures that S will survive beyond the "nostalgia" crowd! It also tells me that, given a stable economy, a mag such as the S/Sn3 will eventually survive. While we're on the subject of a mag, this isn't the only group having such problems. I'm also involved in 12" -1' preservation, and we recently lost our "flagship" mag, Locomotive & Railway Preservation News. Now I have some "inside" info on its loss. It WAS making money, not a lot though, and Pentrex found that it was not having the "growth numbers" that would indicate a good "return on investment". They started a less focused magazine, "Vintage Rails" that was immediately showing those kind of numbers. Despite the fact that they purchased L&RP "to support the industry" and had made noises that they would stand behind it, it was dumped. We still don't have an equal replacement. BTW, now Kalmbach is producing "Classic Trains" so there must really be room for non-technical "old trains" mags. No matter what, though, we've come a long ways from the '60s situation! S'incerely, David Dewey Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4076	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: More eBay effects

Hi all! Well, I've found one change in my S trains purchasing power that has been effected by eBay. My "big secret" neat-stuff-to-fix supply was Train City's "junk lots--$35 worth of stuff for $25!". These lots always contained way more than the stated value in parts, my 290 loco w/wire handrails came out of one of the lots, as did the bell danger on my current "under tree layout" (well, yeah, the tree's gone, but the layout's not!). I'd noticed that Charles kept telling me he didn't have any, and he just now admitted why. He wrote me, "Yes, I am realizing ridiculously high prices on ebay, so I stopped selling them outright . I am sure anyone would for 10 times the amount they used to sell for." Hmm, so much for customer loyalty! (Well, it's hard to argue the economics; he is in the biz to make money.) His response, "Well, I guess that's progress". Hmm, wonder how I can make his next golf game unpleasant??<G> (Come to think of it, based on his writing, He can do THAT himself!) Well, at least he said he likes my web site. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4077	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel's New Website

Chris, Answer??? You expect an answer?? Methinks you've been working on special effects too long!! <G> Not a bad idea though, what if we all cut and paste your letter and send it to L?? I'd add a sentence though, "If you are not going to utilize the AF tooling, please sell it to someone who cares!" Hmm, maybe that's too strong. An email letter campaign can't hurt! S' David D. PS for us lazy ones, what's the email link?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4078	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: Brass Alloy AM Flex Track

If you like the brass color of AM track then don't be afraid to use it. We have lots of it on our modulsr layout. 12x28 feet, and it's conductivity is excellent without frequent cleaning. Scale stuff doesn't like to take the turnout route unless you shin the guard rail. Shimming instructions come with the switches and shims need not be permanent. You can avoid the need to shim and can run both scale and hi-rail by using BK closing frog switches, which are harder to install. We use some of both on our layout which mixes scale, flyer & hi-rail. "Marinello, Jon" wrote: > > From: "Marinello, Jon" <jon.marinello@...> > > Hi All, > > I'm seriously looking at the American Models brass alloy flex track for my > new layout. I have read plenty about how brass is not as good as the > standard track alloy. Does anyone have experience with the AM track. I just > got a sample and it looks real nice. I like the uneven ties. However, if it > doesn't wear well or has significant corrosion problems because it is brass > I want to look for other track. > > I want to run my high rail AF stuff as well as my scale stuff on the same > track. But I don't want to use my AF track anymore. In fact I have a lot of > it to sell along with new repro rubber roadbed if anyone is interested. I > also have 3 or 4 pairs of switches in real nice condition. I will probably > sell it all on eBay. > > Comments on the AM flex track or other similar flex track would be > appreciated! > > Thanks, > > --jon > > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Jon Marinello > PulsePoint Communications > (805) 566-2000 > Email jon.marinello@... > Web: http://www.plpt.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get $20 off all MotherNature brand products! > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/mothernature1 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4079	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] How to fill the void??

> From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> > > Richard wrote: > > > how might we continue the good fight. > > An interesting question. The answer depends on what the objective is. > Would someone care to define an objective and see if we all can agree on > it? I think the objective is three fold with all equally important; sharing modeling experiences in S, spreading new product information, and promoting S to the non-S folks. I recommend supporting one of the three heavy-duty modeling mags - RMC, Model Railroading, or Mainline Modeler - in that order. These are ranked in circulation order. I have talked with Model Railroading and they want modeling articles - scale is not important. I will chat with Bill S. at RMC this next week. IF one of these publications could be targeted for both S scale articles and advertising, then the objective could be reached. Imagine how one of these editors would feel if suddenly they received 20+ S scale articles, 15+ new S scale advertisers, and around 1,000 new subscribers all telling them they want to see S scale..... think they would be positive toward S? Uh, YEP! Shoot, we could probably convince Model Railroading to have a special S Scale section! (SNIP) > Interestingly, NASG never purchased a single paid advertisement in my > magazine. Yet they wanted my subscriber list when I bit the dust. I > wrote them a letter suggesting they should support S publications and > that their advertising dollar might make a difference. To the best of > my (admittedly weak) memory, I have never seen a paid advertisement by > NASG in Bill Wade's magazine either. Yet the avowed purpose of NASG is > to "promote S gauge." Don't ask me for an explanation -- I have none. > The NASG is an interesting group. We offered free advertising to the NASG if they just sent ad copy. They never did. We finally started putting in free ones we designed when we had leftover space. I have long pushed for the NASG to advertise in MR and RMC, but have always been told there was no money to do it. I am not impressed with the promotional aspect of the organization. Realistically, the money spent on the Dispatch should be used for promotion of S to non-S folks and to encourage manufacturers to try an S product or two. The Dispatch should be reduced down to a newsletter format. Preaching to the choir is not the way to get more folks in the pews. John Foley has done more for S scale in the last two years by himself! We just need to clone John. All for now.... Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4080	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel's New Website

In a message dated 7/18/99 10:36:50 AM, busy-boy@... writes: << What do you think the answer will be? CZ >> For the sake of your own health, please don't hold your breath! :)) Lionel LLC has basically thrown in the towel on AF. This is an important reason why one sees crazy prices for AF on eBay sometimes. Lionel will continue to make the occasional holiday or special issue car, etc. but that is about it. They have their hands full and are short of capital because of Mikey Wolf. Lionel will probably retain the Gilbert name and dies because the investment group (Wellspring) which owns the majority of Lionel LLC will look upon the AF assests as added value to Lionel (the entity) in case they ever offer 'the big L' for sale. Suggest that you acquire vintage Gilbert and place orders with 'Don and Ron' for the S high rail equipment that you like. Sorry. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4081	From: Gf3897@aol.com	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 308

Re: E-Bay comments..what was the name of that song? Oh yeah..."There's too much whining goin on"

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4082	From: George Courtney	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: response to earlier posting

One nice thing about this scale, when I buy cars from mfg's, I don't care if it's scale or flyer. I change the couplers and use NWSL wheels either way. It would seem that in car details my scale desires and Am. Flyer operaters have no conflict. I love AF guys and enjoy their layouts. A comment about Don's magazine being in the sixties and seventies as to scale articles, this relates mostly to articles about converting Am Flyer to scale. So much as been available to scalers recently that few conversions would seem necessary, except for those who enjoy them, which is fine of course. I made a remark about Bill Wade sharing his subscription list. Sorry, Bill, hadn't thought that one out and respect the value of the list, especially since you lost money on the mag.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4083	From: RRDART@aol.com	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] How to fill the void??

<< I have long pushed for the NASG to advertise in MR and RMC, but have always been told there was no money to do it. I am not impressed with the promotional aspect of the organization. >> This is not completely true. When I was promotions director we ran ads in MR, RMC MAinline Modeler and CTT. There several foci. One of my favorites was "Are you tired of your prizewinning model looking like just another brass import." We also ran an that read" Are you tired of that unsightly third rail?" that had a line through the middle. The ads got many responses and they were all sent NASG brochures. John Craft

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4084	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] How to fill the void??

Are you John Craft of Bel Air MD? larry RRDART@... wrote: > From: RRDART@... > > << I have long > pushed for the NASG to advertise in MR and RMC, but have always been > told there was no money to do it. I am not impressed with the > promotional aspect of the organization. >> > > This is not completely true. When I was promotions director we ran ads in > MR, RMC MAinline Modeler and CTT. There several foci. One of my favorites > was "Are you tired of your prizewinning model looking like just another brass > import." We also ran an that read" Are you tired of that unsightly third > rail?" that had a line through the middle. The ads got many responses and > they were all sent NASG brochures. > John Craft > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Start a new ONElist list & you can WIN great prizes! > http://www.onelist.com > See homepage for details on ONElist's new "FRIENDS & FAMILY" program. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4085	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/18/1999
Subject: New NWSL replacement wheelsets for AM GPs, RSs, and F units

Hi All, It's with great excitement I announce NorthWest Short Line's new replacement/upgrade kits for American Models S scale diesel-electric locomotives. The new wheelsets are available in Code 110 and "Proto:S" profiles. Proto:S is NWSL's line of code 88 wheels with a slightly modified RP-25 contour and slighty-deeper-than-proto:88 flanges. Listed below are the part numbers and the descriptions: NWSL #2534-6 -- S scale Proto:S 40" code 88 nickel-plated wheelsets with precision Delrin� axle gears and brass bearings. NWSL #2535-6 -- S scale 40" code 110 nickel-plated wheelsets with precision Delrin� axle gears and brass bearings. Price of either kit is $29.95 for four wheelsets to do one locomotive. Camera problems have kept me from posting better photos of the #2534-6 wheelsets but you can see captures off of video at: http://www.onelist.com/shareddir/Proto64/NWSLWheelsets/comparison_1.jpg and http://www.onelist.com/shareddir/Proto64/NWSLWheelsets/side_view.jpg The following is the instructions that come with the kits: Turn the locomotive over and remove the two screws holding the cover to the gear case. Remove the original equipment wheelsets from the truck. Insert the new NWSL upgrade wheelsets, making sure the insulated wheels are on the side of the gear case with the wiper assembly. Also make sure the wipers go behind the wheels as the wheels are dropped into the gearcase. Screw the cover back on the gearcase. Set the locomotive, wheels-down, on a flat surface and check that the axles are square in the truck. We've found that in most cases the locomotive truck rocks because the cast-metal case isn't square to start. If you find this is a problem, determine which gearcase axle opening is too deep, allowing the truck to rock. Remove the gearcase cover and the wheelset in the offending axle opening. Place a small brass (or other appropriate) shim into the deep axle opening. Reassemble the truck and check again for rock. When you're satisfied with the truck's levelness, glue the shim in place with a CA cement, such as Loctite� or Zap�. After you're sure that everything is properly fitted and shimmed as needed, you may wish to secure the bronze bearings into the gear case with a small drop of CA. WARNING: be especially careful not to get cement on the inside surfaces of the bearing. The cement will insure the bearings don't turn in the gearcase, wearing on the cast gearcase. Lubricate the gears and bearings with gear and bearing oil such as Labelle, Woodland Scenics, Bachmann, or other type designed for plastic model railroad equipment. Avoid over-lubricating, or the use of heavy grease. Now you can enjoy the benefits of better appearance and precision-made parts for reliable operation.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4086	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: "L" PEOPLE LINKS

Here are the "L" people to contact. Brenda Schlutow <lionelmi@...>, Charlotte Montgomery <lionelmi@...>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4087	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Sawmills

How far from the track (end of ties) have you found works best with with either the 23796 or 2321 sawmill? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4088	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Re: "L" PEOPLE LINKS

Glenn, How come both people's addresses are the the same? I thought Brenda had left? S' David

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4089	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: NWSL Wheelset Pix

Keith Thompson wrote: >you can see captures off of video at: >http://www.onelist.com/shareddir/Proto64/NWSLWheelsets/comparison_1.jpg >and >http://www.onelist.com/shareddir/Proto64/NWSLWheelsets/side_view.jpg Not so Keith, I got a page instead that said the following: "An Error Has Occurred You are not allowed to use this function. " You have to clear permissions for us to access these pages. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4090	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Re: Beacon operation

(1) The problem with AF beacons is that the rotating top is too heavy, AND many of the after-market beacon bulbs you can buy have VERY poorly-formed dimples.....often they're not even centered! That's why we market ONLY a repro MARX beacon top. It is a bit shorter, definitely lighter in weight, and we guarantee it to work when used with our bulbs (which are the BEST....they have an excellent, deep, centered dimple). If the two together don't work, we'll refund in full. We also recommend operating beacons on their own dedicated small transformer, at full output. (2) The Lionel beacons that operate on the vibrator principle (AF also has one like that, but it is quite uncommon) have a recessed rubber washer with small nipples on it. Those nipples wear out, and the washers need to be replaced. That restores operation. We carry those washers too, even though it is a Lnl part, because of their use in the uncommon AF beacon. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html In a message dated 7/16/99 7:34:06 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << the updraft principle that makes the Flyer beacon work(sometimes) will eventually drive you crazy.Because it just doesn't work very reliably. light the fire,I'm ready-j marganski ______________________________________________________________________________ _ ______________________________________________________________________________ _ Message: 23 Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 00:18:23 -0500 From: Scott Holm <IMSSCOTT@...> Subject: re: Brand L beacon The Lionel beacon has not worked reliably for me anyway. The little pegs on the rubber gasket keep flattening out. It's sitting there now motionless again. Oh well, I guess I will keep it if only for it's sentimental value, which is worth more than $30 bucks. >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4091	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Re: Repro paints

In a message dated 7/14/99 6:45:47 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << A fair match for Flyer accessory green is made by Classic Model Trains-but since it is a close match, it should be used for a total repaint, not touch-up. Portlines carries it in both spray can and bottled for brushing or thinning and air brushing. I have used CMT paints on tinplate repaints, and am generally pleased with it >> Correct......and this is true of virtually all repro paints. Your original paints are bound to have faded a bit over the years, so touchup with repro paints will be very noticeable. Unless you want to spend some time "playing" with the paints to alter their tint and create a perfect match, they are best used for total repaints. BTW, we now carry a handful of Lionel colors which are pretty close matches for some AF paints. Example: "AF Accessory Green" is a very light green. It WAS used on a few AF accessories, but it does NOT match the medium green which most of us associate with AF accessories. I now carry a Lionel paint (spray or bottle) which is a closer match to the "normal" AF accessory green. (This same thing is true of "AF Accessory Gray".) Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4092	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Re: NASG

In a message dated 7/16/99 7:34:06 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << I just want to remind everyone that this is NASG membership renewal time and time for new members to sign up. NASG membership runs from June of one year to June of the next year. So if you haven't renewed yet, or if you are interested in becoming a new member, you can sign up using the handy online form from the NASG website. Just print out the form and mail it in with your dues. The NASG website is: http://trainweb.com/nasg Regards, Craig S. O'Connell NASG Website Director >> AND.......... unless you are an NASG member, yu can't buy any of those GREAT S cars produced for NASG..........AF cars, SHS cars, AM cars, etc.....scale or highrail. Something there for everyone, if you belong to NASG !!!! Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4093	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Re: MTH signals

You'll all have to forgive my "late" replies to some recent postings. Been away for 2 weeks and am just catching up. (Same is true for all those orders many of you submitted during the past 2 weeks. Hopefully, we'll be caught up on them by the end of this week.) Re: MTH signals....we've been selling them to S oeprators, along with the Track Activation device mentioned. No one has indicated a problem with operation on an S layout yet. Have to confess though that we haven't actually wired one up ouselves. They DO look very good with S; they're undersized for O . (Before you inquire......NO, we still do not have the over-the-track Signal Bridge back in stock yet. MTH sold out on these very quickly and is awaiting a new shipment from China. Those of you who inquired of us about availability will hear back from us when we get a new shipment.) We DO have a couple of the Block Signals still in stock, however. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html In a message dated 7/15/99 7:31:40 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << An article on how one could take an MTH track signal and use it with 2-rail AF would be interesting. (This comes from having a Flyer layout and looking longingly at all the shiny unscratched NEW stuff available on the shelves of my local hobby shop in the $30 range.) I bought a MT-1037 "Track Activation Device" for $9.95. It's a pressure-activated trip and looks like it might be a good candidate to take the place of the #697 trip, though it's built for O and O-27 track. (I just set one of the AF track ties on the activation bar and it seems to work, but haven't wired anything up to it yet.) >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4094	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Re: Beacon operation

AND!! there are a few tricks to the "hot bulb" beacon too, but to hear about them, you'll have to read my column in the Dispatch!! <G> (and, of course, like any good "modern" media person, I will take some time before I get to them--just like your evening newscasters, who at 11:01 tell you, "And next, Lioxxl drops O gauge in favor of.." and then you stay up till the newscast is over, and they say, "OH! we ran out of time, sorry folks!" without covering the story!) Actually, I like the vibrating motor beacon, and the washers seem to last longer now that they've increased the number of nibs from 3 to 6. My Brother's childhood one is still with me, and I've added a few more since then, but while growing up, I only had their 494 and a Marx one for my layouts. The wind going through the cabin messed up the Marx one frequently! (Another story sometime, how to check wind direction without looking outside!) S' David D. Hmm, my spell checker wanted to change "Lionxxl" to the real word!! Does this mean Bill Gates likes L??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4095	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 7/19/1999
Subject: Status at B.T.S. - Sawmill

Howdy Friends We are leaving in the morning to start the long drive to the NMRA Train Show in St.Paul, MN... I understand that is somewhere way up north! Diane and I will be in booths 752-754 so if you attend the show, stop by and chat a bit. Will be back in the office on July 28. For those who will not be there, I just posted some photos of the S scale Coon Gap Sawmill to our site at: http://www.btsrr.com/btsmil01.htm As you can tell, still have some work to do, including the separate boiler house and blacksmith shop. Machinery will fill the open floor. What you see there is 14" x 22" x 10" high. If time and energy permit, I will post some photos of the O scale Orbisonia Station.... the S version is just like it only smaller, so view it from farther back and it will look right! ;-) Check the home page for info on this. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4096	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Re: NWSL Wheelset Pix

Sorry about that. I forgot that only Proto:64 list members could see those photos in the shared file area. Try these links: http://home.worldnet.att.net/~keith.thompson2/comparison_1.jpg http://home.worldnet.att.net/~keith.thompson2/side_view.jpg -- Keith Thompson in Seattle busy-boy wrote: > > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > > Keith Thompson wrote: > >you can see captures off of video at: > >http://www.onelist.com/shareddir/Proto64/NWSLWheelsets/comparison_1.jpg > >and > >http://www.onelist.com/shareddir/Proto64/NWSLWheelsets/side_view.jpg > > Not so Keith, I got a page instead that said the following: > > "An Error Has Occurred > You are not allowed to use this function. " > > You have to clear permissions for us to access these pages. > > Chris Zizzo > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > The Best Place to Buy Movies - Reel.com > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/reel1 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4097	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Carnival/Fair items

Has anyone actually sized up the carnival rides produced by IHC, for their use in S? Would like to build a small carnival... Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4098	From: Charles Ellis	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: water tower repair

I recently bought (through e-bay) a 596 water tower, which I discovered is lacking a connection from the weighted arm inside the tank to the spout. Anyone know what is needed? The end of the weighted wire arm is bent down. I would have thought an upward bend would be needed. Charles Ellis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4099	From: RxMan46321@aol.com	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Naming Streamliners

Troops, Here's your chance for a little creativity. My current project is building a crack streamline passenger train but am at a stand still as what to name the various cars. I want to use "__________" Zephyr on the spot where American Flyer Lines appears above the windows. I've got an "L" WP Dining car, it's got California Zephyr which I assume is the Train name. With poetic licencse it's going to be the name of the car. Since this train runs between the west coast and Chicago several other of the cars will carry state names as well. There are 4 961's, 1 960, 3 962's and a 963 with A-B-A PA's. The train name is "The Heritage Special" based on our area being known as The Heritage Corridor". Thanks for the help John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4100	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 307

> >Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 09:50:34 -0400 (EDT) > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> >Subject: Smoke fluid > >I bought a big bottle of cheap lamp oil at K-mart for $1.99 >to use for smoke fluid, (avoiding the more expensive >smokeless oil, duh!) and it works great. Lot's of thick, >white smoke. It doesn't have any smell though. Is there >anything I can add to it to make it smell like the oil in >the original Flyer smoke capsules? What was the scent in >those anyway? > I use lamp oil, too. Don't bother buying the scented stuff, unless you use alot of it (one bottle is a lifetime supply for me). The scent dissipates after the bottle is open awhile. Gregg Mummert gmummert@... S Gauge - the only way to Fly(er)!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4101	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Re: Naming Streamliners

Well..... The California Zephyr was a train built w/ the co-operation of three railroads, the WP, the D&RG, and the C&NW. Six trainsets. The top board read "California Zephyr", the ends had car number with the RR prefixes (Each road had two complete train sets). The cars were named "Silver _____" (examples: Silver Hostel, Silver platter, Silver Solarium (Sleeper, dinner, observation (w/dome)). The WP used F units, BUT the D&RG had PAs in a striking color scheme! I dunno what the C&NW used, but the route was about what you propose! I know there's a CZ web site, but I don't have the URL handy. A search engine should get you the info. Now this train was a striking, all stainless cars train, AND if "Big L" had had their act together, the WP set would have been chromed, and the locos would have been in the D&RG scheme (hmm, making it a D&RG set, oh well...) as the WP paint scheme is lost without the sheen of stainless (chrome) and was never put on PAs (RATS!). Besides, they didn't even do it correctly--the roof is black, ending in a peak over the cab. Yeah, this is one area I get picky about, I spent too much time on the roof of 805A tracing out the old paint scheme (and one side was 4" off the other!--factory error!). But -- You'll have a neat train when you're done. I might suggest adding a dome to the observation (Alterations!!! yeah, I have an obs w/ big melt on the roof I'm going to "fix" w/ a dome!) another thing "Big L" should've done too. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4102	From: Andy McBride	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Re: Naming Streamliners

>From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > >Well..... > The California Zephyr was a train built w/ the co-operation of three >railroads, the WP, the D&RG, and the C&NW. As a Chicago & North Western fan I would have loved it if the C&NW had participated in the California Zephyr. Sadly, arch rival Chicago Burlington & Quincy had this contract. In fact the C&NW never even had a dome car ( a trademark of the CZ) until they bought one second hand for their officials train in the 1980s. The Burlington was the big player in the CZ and in fact came up with the Zephyr name and the naming of the cars. The Burlington used silver E-units on it's route that also had names much like the cars did. Silver Charger comes to mind > But -- You'll have a neat train when you're done. I might suggest adding >a dome to the observation (Alterations!!! yeah, I have an obs w/ big melt on >the roof I'm going to "fix" w/ a dome!) another thing "Big L" should've done >too. Excellent idea David! As for coming up with names I might suggest you take a cue from other railroads. The KCS named some of their passenger locomotives from names taken from race horses. Steel Dust was my favorite. All of the names from cars in the C&NW officials train were taken from locations on the railroad itself. If you have a big bridge or junction on your own railroad it would be a neat tie in to have a car that also carried that name. Other railroads named equipment from famous people in their history so don't be bashful and name one for your self or some of your friends. For my railroad I've always used names of famous people that never had a passenger car named for them but should have. As a Cubs fan I'd have to have a car named for Ernie Banks. John Lennon and Paul McCarteny would have to be represented as well. I wouldn't forget Mr Gilbert either. When you have chosen some names please share them with the group. I'll be curious to see what you come up with. Andy McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4103	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: zephyr names

As a Rolls-Roycw admirer,I couldn't help but come up with:Silver Ghost, Silver Shadow, Silver Wraith, Silver Dawn-and in the spirit of the West, (Jay)Silverheels, and (Hi-HO!)Silver-j marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4104	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Fw: American Flyer

Here is our answer. -----Original Message----- From: talktous <talktous@...> To: busy-boy@... <busy-boy@...> Date: Tuesday, July 20, 1999 4:47 PM Subject: American Flyer Thank you for your inquiry regarding Amerrican Flyer products. There is a new AF Christmas Boxcar in the 1999 LIONEL Classic vol. II Catalog. Unfortunately there is no further information available regarding any other upcoming American Flyer item. Thank you. LIONEL/TalktoUs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4105	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: NWSF wheels, Proto 64, Bill Wade, and the whole thing.

Keith Thompson, et al: I compared the wheelsets . . . very nice. It looks just like the real thing, and it's 15 or 20% more realistic than the AM wheels. With the sideframes on, you can almost see that it's something different, if the train is not moving, or parked at a high platform, or covered by any number of other visual restrictions which abound on every layout. For this we needed the already fragile S community splintered into yet another special interest group? And how many angels are there on the head of a pin? 64? You want to know why Bill Wade's magazine failed? I think it's because he didn't devote whole issues to Erie/Lackawanna locomotives, so the guys who model those didn't buy it. And Santa Fe, boy those guys just didn't get enough coverage, so they weren't going to lay down good money for that rag. Some guy in New Jersey throws darts at a picture of Bill because a CNJ camelback once pictured was missing a boiler handrail. Unforgivable! The afficionados of Canadian Pacific Jubilee locomotives just NEVER found an article on their favorite subject, and they're still out there, blissfully hoping that soon somebody is going to publish a fully sold out, full color magazine called "Jubilee Modeler", where they can get their fill every month with the thousands of 4-4-4 fans out there. Ridiculous? Yes, but it's not the only thing that's ridiculous. Bill, your magazine is dead. It doesn't matter why. Dead is dead. It was on life support and you pulled the plug. Now it's gone. I am intrigued by a comment you made: I don't have the letter in front of me, so I paraphrase: 'We could have printed the hi-rail and AF articles, but that wasn't what we were trying to do here.' That's kind of like saying "My mother needed a kidney, but the only compatible one was from a black man, so we decided she'd be better off dead." If you had taken in some Hi-rail articles, they would not have polluted your magazine, they would have saved it so you could continue publishing and provide a scale and Proto 64 forum. Stop kidding us and yourself and face the real reality. You were oversaturating an infinitesimal market that does not have the numbers to support a regular magazine publication. I, and many other hi-railers like me, subscribed A.) to support your effort, B.) to get as much S gauge support into our lives as possible. Do you really think you would have lasted this long without the support of the S-Hi-Rail and AF community? I'm sorry to see you fold up. I thought there was always good stuff I could apply to my layout. Remember, Hi-Railers may run toy and semi-scale trains on rails that are a little too tall, but we scenic our pikes in scale. Oh, but you can't accept our articles, because our wheels are too fat . . . or too thin. What's next, scale cleansing? Of course, it is entirely possible that you have other reasons for folding your tents. Running a magazine like this long enough I am sure can burn you out. My comments, however, are based on the reasons you offered, and frankly, those reasons are counter-productive to the hobby, to the scale and to the reality of our situation, all bobbing along on the waves in this one boat, as we are. I hope that after a well deserved respite and some re-thinking, particularly of the big picture, you will once again emerge as a leader and a publisher in this scale. I look forward to that day. Cordially, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4106	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Re: Naming Streamliners

In a message dated 7/20/99 12:31:45 PM, djdewey@... writes: << the WP paint scheme is lost without the sheen of stainless (chrome) and was never put on PAs (RATS!). >> Believe it or not, the WP portion was very occasionally pulled by an Alco PA-PB-PB set painted up in the correct colors. On my video tape about the CZ, there is one scene near the end of the tape where this is clearly so (Surprised me!). Of course, the F-3 A-B-B lash up is the usual WP motive power for the CZ. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4107	From: Richard	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: knock knock

Has everyone gone to the show?? lucky bastards >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4108	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: NWSF wheels, Proto 64, Bill Wade, and the whole thing.

>The more important feature of the NWSL wheelsets than looks are their >operation. the NWSL wheels track fantastically and the code >110 wheels match existing standards. they'll perform >a lot better than the AM wheels. This is great, really, and a factor which I did not know about. But how would I, unless I also subscribed to the P64 and finescale and modern etc. etc. lists? Really, kudos on your achievement. maybe you can sell them to AM and SHS in mass production and replace their current tooling. >As for fragmenting an already small segment of the whole model railroad >community, I think it's great that S DOES have so much diversity and >communication. If anything, we should celebrate this diversity amongst >ourselves instead of going off into splinter groups. >If we all hold parties at the same time as all of our friends that we're >inviting, nobody will come because everybody is at home waiting for >everyone else to show up. > >If I started a list for S scale modelers of the Santa Fe in Kansas on >June 6, 1968, how many people would subscribe? What would probably >happen is that a guy that models the PRR through Harrisburg, PA., on >April 6, 1945, with hi-rail equipment, on SHS track would see the list >and start his on list. And so on until everybody has their own list and >nobody talks to anyone else because they're busy with THEIR list and >didn't want all the traffic generated by other lists. > Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of that going around. >We need to be tolerant of each others differences and not >complain when they're are too many scale or flyer posts. Guilty of doing that once or twice when I felt lost among people talking in foreign tongues even on the straight S list, but I believe, a natural reaction. I would rather see a single list with built in filters. If you enter P-64 in the subject heading, the filter will block it from those who elect to block P-64 messages. Same for Hi-Rail, AF, whatever. Messages without these key words would go to everyone. People could raise and lower the filters at will. That way, intense scale discussions could be going on and I would not be bombarded by them as I perused a smaller selection of posts in my interest. Now that just might be a solution that gets rid of separatism. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4109	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/20/1999
Subject: Re: NWSF wheels, Proto 64, Bill Wade, and the whole thing.

busy-boy wrote: > > Keith Thompson, et al: > > I compared the wheelsets . . . very nice. It looks just like the real > thing, and it's 15 or 20% more realistic than the AM wheels. With the > sideframes on, you can almost see that it's something different, if the > train is not moving, or parked at a high platform, or covered by any number > of other visual restrictions which abound on every layout. > Hi Chris, The more important feature of the NWSL wheelsets than looks are their operation. I have three AM locomotives so far and the wheelsets have been less than true, and the wheel width is too wide according to the NASG standards, not to mention the contour that picks less-than-perfect switch frogs. Anyway, the NWSL wheels track fantastically and the code 110 wheels match existing NASG/NMRA RP-25 standards. I only showed the Proto S wheels because that's all I had to show. If you're running on code 100 track, the code 110 wheels will work great and they'll perform a lot better than the AM wheels on code 100 track laid to NASG standards. As for fragmenting an already small segment of the whole model railroad community, I think it's great that S DOES have so much diversity and communication. If anything, we should celebrate this diversity amongst ourselves instead of going off into splinter groups. About two months ago I tried to get the P:64 list back on the subject of just P:64 standards, asking that general S posts be sent to S-Trains. However, some of the modern scale modelers still wanted a forum separate from the S-Trains list so they started the sfinescale list. I have no problem with that since the Internet IS a democracy and everybody is entitled to pursue their own ideas of how it should be used. However, if we all hold parties at the same time as all of our friends that we're inviting, nobody will come because everybody is at home waiting for everyone else to show up. If I started a list for S scale modelers of the Santa Fe in Kansas on June 6, 1968, how many people would subscribe? What would probably happen is that a guy that models the PRR through Harrisburg, PA., on April 6, 1945, with hi-rail equipment, on SHS track would see the list and start his on list. And so on until everybody has their own list and nobody talks to anyone else because they're busy with THEIR list and didn't want all the traffic generated by other lists. What I'm getting at is that we should look at the NASG logo (http://www.trainweb.com/nasg/). That word "United" is there for a reason and we should use it as our guiding principle for our behavior on the Internet. I'm all for rolling everything S back into one list, S-Trains, but we need to be tolerant of each others differences and not complain when they're are too many scale or flyer posts or if we're talking about die-cast cars or ERTL buildings. Hey, it all comes out in the wash and after all isn't this a hobby? -- Keith Thompson in Seattle P.S. This message would be a lot easier to post if we had just one list. -- KT

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4110	From: PatnDave	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Re: NWSF wheels, Proto 64, Bill Wade, and the whole t

Hi all, -----Original Message----- From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> To: busy-boy <busy-boy@...>; slist <S-Trains@onelist.com>; p64list <proto64@onelist.com> Date: Wednesday, July 21, 1999 4:35 AM Subject: [Proto64] Re: [S-Trains] NWSF wheels, Proto 64, Bill Wade, and the whole thing. Keith Thompson wrote: >As for fragmenting an already small segment... > >About two months ago I tried to get the P:64 list back on the subject of >just P:64 standards, asking that general S posts be sent to S-Trains. >However, some of the modern scale modelers still wanted a forum separate >from the S-Trains list---"so they started the sfinescale list." Keith, I think you may be giving credit to the wrong group here(?). I believe the sfinescale list was started by a charming fellow by the name of Bill Lane. Although Bill may have at one time, been a modern scale modeler, he has defected a number of years ago and became one of those "slobberin' Pennsy freaks ;-)." (Our loss of an excellent modeler) Dave Bailey, MPSG Advocate No one is listening...until you make a mistake >P.S. This message would be a lot easier to post if we had just one list. >-- KT Yes Keith, I agree DB > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? >http://www.onelist.com >Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >The Proto:64 web site is located at: http://www.trainweb.org/proto64/ >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4111	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: knock knock

No, not everyone. Roger Richard wrote: > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > Has everyone gone to the show?? lucky bastards >:~)) Richard > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to like-minds and kindred spirits. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4112	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: knock knock

At 05:27 PM 7/21/99 +1000, Richard wrote: >From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > >Has everyone gone to the show?? lucky bastards >:~)) Richard Some of us did go, even early so we could attend the NMRA National in St. Paul as well. But we're still reading S-Trains -- just not as often... Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4113	From: rgajnak@tellabs.com	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Random Thoughts of S

Hello everyone, just signed on this morning. I too, will miss S/Sn3 Modeler. It was a beacon that showed the best that S scale had to offer. I though it ironic that I received the cancellation notice one day after Don Heimburger announced at my local club (Chicagoland Assn. of S Gaugers)that he had just signed a contract for broader distribution of the S Gaugian and Sn3 Modeler to news stands and specialty stores. Don's action illustrates what has to be done... get the S Gauge word out to the masses. By all means, article contributions should continue to go to the NASG Dispatch, but remember, the Dispatch preaches to the choir. I don't think people should write off the general model railroading press unless there have been continual refusals of S related articles. After all, American Models and S Helper products have gotten good reviews in MR and CTT. CTT even had a sidebar, I belive in the March issue, of how products from these companies are keeping S alive in spite of the lack of new AF products. One last thought...don't count on Lionel to sell the Flyer tooling and name. To do so would be validation of failure (as if we didn't realize that already.) Well, I'll get off my soapbox for now.... Rich Gajnak

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4114	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: Random Thoughts of S

Welcome aboard Rich! Watch that soapbox, a lot of us here are on it, and it's slippery! Why should the Dispatch be considered "preaching to the choir"?? A good mag is one way to get others onboard, and you can leave copies at the Dr.s office, etc. (Well, not my copy, I keep them all!!--have to get extras). And I note that a subscription price is noted, perhaps it could also be put in newstands at some future time?? It is sad that the S/Sn3 had to end, hopefully its contributors will contribute to other mags so as to keep the S publishing ratio stable!! Those of you at the "party" send us some reports of what's there and what a great time you're having so we can be jealous! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4115	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: knock knock

Show? What show?? We don' neeed no stiiinkin' show!! (Well, actually we do, but I don't have the $$ to go, so I'm rationalizing!) I'm just busy working! S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4116	From: Dennis Back	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: Show? What show??

--David Dewey <djdewey@...> wrote: > > Show? What show?? We don' neeed no stiiinkin' show!! THAT'S RIGHT....WE HAVE E-B-A-Y !!!! ;-) Dennis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4117	From: Dan Mastrobuono	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Pennsy S Models website...

The Pennsy S Model website is up and running. Look for more content after the NASG convention. Please visit http://www.pennsysmodels.com Thank you.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4118	From: Marc & Rebecca McCarron	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Gilbertville question

When is the August Gilbertville train meet?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4119	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbertville question

There isn't one. Its Sept 19, 1999 9AM

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4120	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Re: Naming Streamliners

KCS did not name their engines--it is SLSF FRISCO, that named their E-units after the racehorses. Andy McBride wrote: > From: Andy McBride <amcbride@...> > > >From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > > >Well..... > > The California Zephyr was a train built w/ the co-operation of three > >railroads, the WP, the D&RG, and the C&NW. > > As a Chicago & North Western fan I would have loved it if the C&NW had > participated in the California Zephyr. Sadly, arch rival Chicago Burlington > & Quincy had this contract. In fact the C&NW never even had a dome car ( a > trademark of the CZ) until they bought one second hand for their officials > train in the 1980s. > > The Burlington was the big player in the CZ and in fact came up with the > Zephyr name and the naming of the cars. The Burlington used silver E-units > on it's route that also had names much like the cars did. Silver Charger > comes to mind > > > But -- You'll have a neat train when you're done. I might suggest adding > >a dome to the observation (Alterations!!! yeah, I have an obs w/ big melt on > >the roof I'm going to "fix" w/ a dome!) another thing "Big L" should've done > >too. > > Excellent idea David! > > As for coming up with names I might suggest you take a cue from other > railroads. The KCS named some of their passenger locomotives from names > taken from race horses. Steel Dust was my favorite. > > All of the names from cars in the C&NW officials train were taken from > locations on the railroad itself. If you have a big bridge or junction on > your own railroad it would be a neat tie in to have a car that also carried > that name. > > Other railroads named equipment from famous people in their history so > don't be bashful and name one for your self or some of your friends. > > For my railroad I've always used names of famous people that never had a > passenger car named for them but should have. As a Cubs fan I'd have to > have a car named for Ernie Banks. John Lennon and Paul McCarteny would have > to be represented as well. I wouldn't forget Mr Gilbert either. > > When you have chosen some names please share them with the group. I'll be > curious to see what you come up with. > > Andy McBride > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Get $20 off all MotherNature brand products! > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/mothernature1 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4121	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: S in Denver

Getting caught up, I noticed the following: From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Re: Spritz re S Scale Connection Hmmm Two years ago we were in Denver, and I did the obligatory visit to Caboose Hobbies. While it is a nice store, I was sorely disappointed in their S selection (uh, non-selection, that is!). But, even though I asked about S, no one directed me to any other nearby or distant store. So there is an S store next door? Sounds like maybe I didn't miss much. Maybe the counter people get their training from the Red Caboose people.<G> S' David D. Yes, just up Broadway is Sundance Publications (and S Scale shop), 250 North Broadway, Denver, CO 80203. 303 777 2880 They have a catalog too, which I also brought home. I've never seen so much S-scale under one roof. He even threw in some Tinplate wheel sets for a Pacific Rail Car. No flyer though ... strictly scale. What a fun shop. Alan Udy Idaho Falls ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4122	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 7/21/1999
Subject: Pacific 4-6-2 Steam Locomotive

Anyone have a used American Models Pacific 4-6-2 Steam Locomotive they would like to sell. Looking for a high rail AC version. Also interested in any other used S-Helper and American Models locomotives that anyone would like to part with. Thanks, Jon Marinello

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4123	From: rgajnak@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: 3 bay PS-2's and Other Things

Got my SHS 3 bay PS-2's in the mail yesterday. Nice! Verry nice! The trouble with S Helper Services' stuff is after you get the ones you want, you discover you need more. Wonder if there's a model railroad wing at the Betty Ford Clinic? Meanwhile, I eagerly await the new roadname SWs, F-units and whatever their next car project is. Department of Corrections: In my last post, when I referred to S/Sn3 Modeler I meant to say S/Sn3 Modeling Guide. Thanks to those who corrected me offline. Either way, I'll still miss it. Informal Poll: Has anyone had S related articles rejected by MR, RMC, CTT, etc? Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4124	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: One possible solution

After much discussion and e-mail traffic, I have created a second list called S-Scale. I know there will be those who thing this is a mistake and they may be right. I am hoping that everyone will receive this news in a positive spirit. I hope this accomplishes several things. 1) That we continue to see an increase in subscribers to our online mailing lists. Communication is a very important part of our hobby. 2) That the people that have taken an active role in providing a venue for the 'S' community will remain active. 3) That folks who are confused or uncertain about the new list arrangement will bring those concerns forward so then can be addressed. Here is my proposal. 1) That Flyer and Highrail related topics remain on S-Trains. 2) That Proto64 wheel issues remain on the Proto64 list. 3) That S-Scale specific topics move to the new 'S-Scale' list. 4) That sfinescale list members move over to S-Scale. I know many of you will continue to to subscribe to all 'S' related lists. Because of this I request that you keep cross posting to a minimum. (I know, this note is cross posted.) I will be glad to take all your comments offline. Paul Yorke American Flyer operator/Stereo Photographer S-Trains Mailing / http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains (Primary Email Yorke@... - Backup paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4125	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: A.F. 5301W Set?

I just recently purchased what I think is a 5301W set. It did not come with any of the original boxes, so it is difficult to tell if A.F. changed it or if the owner made the changes through the years. The engine (#295) looks to be in mint condition, but the green passenger cars are what intrigues me. They are: #650, 651 & 732. The 732 is what has me confused if it is a 5301W set. From what I can tell, if should have 2 - 650s instead of the 732. The set has the #2 transformer, a remote control uncoupler, the whistle unit, track, etc. I should also mention that the 732 does not have the loader, but I am sure no set had this in it either. Does anyone have an idea on this link coupler set probably built in 1951? Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4126	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: S-Scale list

To subscribe to S-Scale.. 1) log onto to http://www.onelist.com and join S-Scale or 2) Send a note to s-scale-subscribe@onelist.com mailto:s-scale-subscribe@onelist.com no special keywords in subject or body are required. Paul Yorke American Flyer operator/Stereo Photographer S-Trains Mailing / http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains (Primary Email Yorke@... - Backup paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4127	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Charles Ro.

...as many of you may know, this month of July there was a fantastic sale at Charles Ro. Many of the newer Lionel-AF products were there for great prices. Just got my flyer in the mail from him two weeks ago, and was elated by the variety of products for sale and the great pricing. Well, yesterday i decided to call and place an order, and to my surprise every bit of American Flyer was sold out!!! (man, i knew those prices were great). Have you ever heard the saying "you snooze you looze". Seems, like this term was coined by an early American Flyer Collector. BTW, Paul Yorke, your idea of a seperate list for S-Scale issues is wonderful!!! Though it is fun occasionally to know exactly how many details can be added to the new American Models 4-6-2, i enjoy just having fun with Flyer and the SHS, and American Models products as they come out of the box. Wayne Broadhead

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4128	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: S rejection

In a message dated 7/22/99 9:02:44 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << Has anyone had S related articles rejected by MR, RMC, CTT >> It is my understanding that MR rejected photos and a potential article about Tom Coughlan's former Berkshire Central S-scale (note: SCALE, not highrail!) railroad as being "too toylike". Those of you who know Tom and remember the BC..........it was FAR from toylike....... it was one of the classic New England s-scale railroads, and is missed today. Wayne Hills did the photos, and is a member of this list. Maybe he can expand on this. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4129	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: 'S' Diversity.

'S' Gaugers, Instead of cursing each other we should be celebrating our diversity. As a bit of background, I am a long time ACG fanatic who started in 'S' Gauge back in the 40s. Since I accumulated a large number of ACG 'S' Gauge stuff over the years I could not ever conceive of me "converting" my 'S' Gauge stuff to scale standards and operation, although as a teenager in the 50s I thought of how great it would be to build a scale layout. About 20 years ago a scale modeler suggested that I convert some of the better stuff in my collection and sell off the rest. He also told me to lay track rail by rail and spike by spike. Sorry about that, but I have neither the time nor the patience to do that. But I certainly can appreciate the work of those who enjoy the scale side of the hobby. I wish that we could all appreciate the other guy's approach to the hobby. Each of us has something that we can contribute to our hobby. A.C. Gilbert gave those of us who started back in the 40s, 50s, or 60s an easy entry into the hobby, a fact for which I am thankful. Artificial divisions based on origin: ACG, 'L,' hi-rail, scale, P64, "scratch," steam, diesel, standard gauge, narrow gauge, etc. will just serve to isolate and insulate us from each other. I'm afraid that the cost of this division will prove to be much more than we might be willing to pay. Perhaps 'S' Gauge will survive, but each of us 'S' Gaugers will become a bit more lonely than we are now. I have seen people here argue about the most trivial of matters to the extent that one or the other (or both) requests that his or her name be removed from circulation. We cannot afford to have these disagreements waging on within our ranks. Celebrate our diversity. It is the one way that we can ensure the survival of 'S' Gauge. Tom Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4130	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Informal Poll

Rich, Well, I had one article on conveting 3/16 Marx cars to Flyer that was rejected by S Gaugian, but accepted by CTT and paid for, but, AFAIK, never published. Pay was pretty good too! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4131	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: 'S' Diversity.

Tom, AHMEN!! you said it beautifullly! S' (any S!) David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4132	From: Andy McBride	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: Informal Poll

>From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > >Rich, > Well, I had one article on conveting 3/16 Marx cars to Flyer that was >rejected by S Gaugian, but accepted by CTT and paid for, but, AFAIK, never >published. Pay was pretty good too! >S' >David D. > Who is AFAIK? Andy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4133	From: rgajnak@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: Informal Poll

David, Thanks for your response. Maybe CCT will publish your article...eventually. Anyone else out there? I actually had two articles published in the S Gaugian but that may have been because I was able to hand tham directly to Don and I'm bigger than him! Laters, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4134	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: email "slang" was: Informal Poll

Hi all, Ooops I used some "slang" that might have been confusing; AFAIK = As Far As I Know Sorry! So much for saving "bandwith" (does the band play Sousa?) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4135	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: "I" Scale?

Okay, guys, I hate to appear dumb (regardless of the truth), but what is "I" scale? Haven't seen that one before. I found it on page 14 of the Summer Sale catalog from Terminal Hobby Shop (Walthers), where they advertise an I Scale "Durango Press Handcar" for $7.98. At first I thought they meant "#1" scale, but a #1 handcar would be too big to cost $7.98. Any info? Thanks. John Eichmann RMHR Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4136	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: "I" Scale?

Hi John, It's actually "no. 1" scale and it's proportioned 1:32. It uses the same gauge track that LGB and Lionel Standard gauge trains use, more commonly called G gauge. The biggest producer of no. 1 scale equipment is Marklin therefore it's mostly a European designation. Recently, other manufacturers have introduced standard-gauge equipment that runs on LGB or G gauge track but the scale of the equipment ranges from 1/29.5 to 1/34th. That's my two cents and I hope that helped you understand about no. 1 scale. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle JOHN EICHMANN wrote: > > From: "JOHN EICHMANN" <JEICHMANN@...> > > Okay, guys, I hate to appear dumb (regardless of the truth), but what is "I" scale? Haven't seen that one before. I found it on page 14 of the Summer Sale catalog from Terminal Hobby Shop (Walthers), where they advertise an I Scale "Durango Press Handcar" for $7.98. At first I thought they meant "#1" scale, but a #1 handcar would be too big to cost $7.98. Any info? Thanks. > > John Eichmann > RMHR > Boise, Idaho > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Congrats to GROW TO GIVE winners, ZENtertainment & ROTInews! > http://www.onelist.com > Check out ONElist�s new program, FRIENDS & FAMILY. See homepage. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4137	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: O-gauge beauty

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131788234 For those of you like me, who have an S-gauge preference, but enjoy trains in general. This is truly a piece of work. I'm sure Mike755w appreciates what he has, just wonder if he's ever going to run it. Hope so. After all, they're trains not trophies. Would love to be there when/if he does.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4138	From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: "L"

I e-mailed Lionel earlier in the week expressing my disappointment at dropping the Flyer line. They responded today saying they were "sorry" that I was disappointed and would forward "one" modeler's feelings to the marketing department. The good news is I have a certain amount of money to spend and it will go to the two outfits that are currently marketing hi-rail and have shown they are responsive to the hobby. Ron Kemp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4139	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: He looks, he bids! HE SCORES!!!!

Hi all, Just couldn't help mentioning that I got something off eBay! I have had a Branford Diner with a broken-and- missing-pieces body for some time. Have another car body part to make a "filler" but just never got around to it. Well, today on eBay, what do I find? A Diner body only, kinda worn, but all there, so I bid, & I got it! Now what to do with my old parts?? (make another diner? Build a car out of them? Sell them on eBay?? Decisions decisions. Every action has repercussions!) Maybe this year's layout will finally have a place for the little people to dine! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4140	From: Richard	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: One possible solution

Paul and others I have replied to this online, simply beacuase there should be healthy acknowledgement of this..not meant to compromise or embarass anyone. To me this is essentially a very good proposal. One further improvement, subject to all concerned thinking it viable is that the Proto list chatter would probably fit right at home ON the scale list. In an ideal world we would need only one-list (no pun intended) Now we know that isn't quite going to happen. The purpose of these lists is that "LIKE" minded sorts can have a banter, chew the fat, eat their cornflakes and see what the rest of their "like minded" brethren are up to and participate at the leisure. I would offer that Finescale, Proto64, Modern SIG etc are all components of the SCALE following. No one is saying that A Flyer fan can't run modern stuff...just try and find it..I digress. Whether we are true to ourselves or simply wishing for a greater Nirvana, ther IS two distinct type of "Generalisations" of following in "S" with some murky areas in between. Remember these chat list are just that , chat lists...they aren't hard and fast divisions..there is nothing on my NASG membership (sorry Bill ..late again) that limits me to one thing or another..nothing that says your Richard, go stand in the "scale" line...it is simply how I choose to model. If I was at a convention ...and one day I'll get there, I am more than likely to have a beer , or coffee and have a yack with those similarly interested. I might peruse the Flyer pikes on display , admire there tenacity to collect and make good old equipment, but I will, more than likely go back and talk to someone about how they detailed that AC44-9 W (yeah I wish) to proto standards...thats just me. This is exactly what we do on a list. I don't really care what oil is used for smoke, but some of you deservedly do, because thats what you're intersted in , and that's great. I am inclined to think that if all the moderators can agree here that the most logical approach is to have: S-Scale@onelist.com for all things scale..finescale,proto etc and S-Trains@onelist.com for all "traditional" interests like flyer,lionel (oops said that word) collecting etc.......its not hard to subscribe to the digest of the second choice list and give a quick look and read the postings that interest you!! I feel that this would also convey to the outside world a little more sanity about our chosen scale/guage/sock color. I think that was $1.29's worth and the soapbox is breaking... >:~)) Richard Paul Yorke wrote: > After much discussion and e-mail traffic, I have created a second list > called S-Scale. I know there will be those who thing this is a mistake and > they may be right. I am hoping that everyone will receive this news in a > positive spirit. > > I hope this accomplishes several things. > 1) That we continue to see an increase in subscribers to our online mailing > lists. Communication is a very important part of our hobby. > 2) That the people that have taken an active role in providing a venue for > the 'S' community will remain active. > 3) That folks who are confused or uncertain about the new list arrangement > will bring those concerns forward so then can be addressed. > > Here is my proposal. > 1) That Flyer and Highrail related topics remain on S-Trains. > 2) That Proto64 wheel issues remain on the Proto64 list. > 3) That S-Scale specific topics move to the new 'S-Scale' list. > 4) That sfinescale list members move over to S-Scale. > > I know many of you will continue to to subscribe to all 'S' related lists. > Because of this I request that you keep cross posting to a minimum. (I know, > this note is cross posted.) > > I will be glad to take all your comments offline. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4141	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Zephyr

John Griffin wrote: >The train name is "The Heritage Special" based on our area being known as "The >Heritage Corridor". I think it ought to be the Heritage Zephyr. Name each car for a different form of wind since a Zephyr is a wind, a gentle breeze. Cars could be "Sea Breeze", "Mariah", "North Wind", "Gale Force", "Sudden Gust", "Whispering Wind", "Winds of Change" and so on. Look in a thesaurus for other wind synonyms and get creative. Have fun, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4142	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/22/1999
Subject: Re: Zephyr Names

How about naming the dining car "Silver Spoon?" The closest thing the real Zephyrs had was the "Silver Tureen." -- Keith Thompson in Seattle busy-boy wrote: > > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > > John Griffin wrote: > >The train name is "The Heritage Special" based on our area being known as > "The > >Heritage Corridor". > > I think it ought to be the Heritage Zephyr. Name each car for a different > form of wind since a Zephyr is a wind, a gentle breeze. > > Cars could be "Sea Breeze", "Mariah", "North Wind", "Gale Force", "Sudden > Gust", "Whispering Wind", "Winds of Change" and so on. Look in a thesaurus > for other wind synonyms and get creative. > > Have fun, > Chris Zizzo > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist now has T-SHIRTS! > http://www.onelist.com > Check out homepage for details. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4143	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: 4 different s-gauge list

Everyone is starting to sound so wishy- washy! It doesn't matter if it is scale,hi-rail or tinplate. They are all toy trains for goodness sakes! NOW, GROW UP!!!!! "s"incerely Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4144	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: 4 different s-gauge list

Chris, But, if we "grow up" can we still play with our toy trains??? I'd blame it on modern society, everone wants to be a member of a unique group. Where's the list for Dyslexic, pack-rat, procrastinating, CHEAP!, Flyer enthusiasts who live in small houses? I want to join, when I get around to it. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4145	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 313

To all those S Gauge and American Flyer buffs out there, don't forget about the wonderful Gilbert Factory Tour in Connecticut again this year. Events will be held on Saturday, August 21 for those interested. As space is limited, if you haven't already made a reservation, you may want to consider signing up now. Contact John Vanacore, AFSTrains@... or 203-239-1346. The largest train show in Connecticut is the next day, August 22 at Southern CT State Univ. Make it a weekend trip.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4146	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: S Lists

TOP TEN S LISTS: 10- s-americanflyerlinkcouplers 9- s-americanflyerknucklecouplers 8- s-americanflyerpikemaster 7- s-americanflyerlyin-L 6- s-highrail 5- s-combinationof6to10 4- s-rivetcounters 3- s-scratchbuilders 2- sn3-easternnarrowgauge 1- sn3-colorado (ssh! they think they're the only list) I hope nobody got left out. Roy Hoffman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4147	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: pressing need

Hi all, I am interested in buying a rivet press of some type. I want to be able to replace link couplers, attach trucks, fix knuckle couplers, etc. I am a train-poor school teacher, so the one I purchase needs to be resonable. Any ideas? P.S. I'll miss you scalers. I enjoy reading and learning from all s-gaugers. Dang, a few HOers have taught me some tricks too.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4148	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: David Dewey & growing up

Sign me up for your proposed list,David! Came you add a category for those whose lives are threatened by the possible eruption of the FORD(fix or restore deal) collection in the closet?-j marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4149	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: "I" Scale?

Keith Thompson wrote, <<It's actually "no. 1" scale and it's proportioned 1:32. It uses the same gauge track that LGB and Lionel Standard gauge trains use, more commonly called G gauge.>> No. 1 gauge is 1 3/4". Half - one (commonly called "S" gauge!) is half of 1.75 or 7/8". Lyin' L's so called "Standard" gauge (called "Wide Gauge" by AF) is 2 1/8" gauge, not 1 3/4". The scales for 2 1/8" gauge vary considerably but 17/32" to the foot is considered correct. Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4150	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: S trains, 64 trains, scale trains, lists

New proposal, renewed reader- Just got my first copy of S-Trains again after being off for 6 months. I am also a car nut and subscribe to a list covering Finned Chrysler Products, mid 50's thru early 60's. Quite a variation of readers/users, from 1955 6 cyl daily drivers to muscle car Hemi cars to whatever. While there are individual differences and philosophies (show, no show car, restorer, refurbisher, gotta be 100% O rig I nal) we all can learn from one another. AND Often there is a trickle down effect, i.e. they ALL use tires, and how do radial tires affect our old technology suspension handling/comfort as just one example. Further I collect odds N ends of manuals, even to occasional texts on auto engine rebuilding, 40 year old Delco Remy ignition manuals, and whatever. Most of these have helped me and others sooner or later, regarding problems. Apparently there are THREE lists now??? Somehow seems like a dilution of information to a group already pretty dern specialized (I mean how many HO folks are running on AC and so on). If we are talking egos here thats one thing, but this is a LIST not a life?????? I know lists can get somewhat skewed, maybe like the long posts on 'I wish ______ would make' or 'why I hate KD couplers' but we can learn something from them or just not read posts from someone who might post an mini-novel for the 6th time this week. All IMHO and sometimes it aint so humble! Best of luck on the changes- Lars

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4151	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Digest Number 313

>Message: 14 Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 18:43:09 EDT From: Kempfam@... Subject: "L" I e-mailed Lionel earlier in the week expressing my disappointment at dropping the Flyer line. They responded today saying they were "sorry" that I was disappointed and would forward "one" modeler's feelings to the marketing department. ... Ron Kemp < Post lionel's email address and let us ALL send them a regretfull message about AF so the marketing department can have more than "one" modeler's feelings. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4152	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: eBay item#135369412: American Flier New Haven Pullman Car

It will be interesting to see if this 650 gets any takers with a minimum bid three times what it's worth. There isn't even a picture. Title of item: American Flier New Haven Pullman Car Price: Starts at $100.00 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=135369412 Item Description: American Flier by A.C. Gilbert "New Haven" Pullman Car. #650. Part # PA-10454. All window glass intact. All lettering present. Lighted interior. Small crack on one door. Not broken off. Easily repairable.Purchased Dec. 1948.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4153	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: eBay item#135369412: American Flier New Haven Pullman Car

But Scott, There's NO RESERVE!!! <G> s' David

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4154	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: Zephyr Names

With 8 cars in the consist he could have Service for Eight and Dinner at Eight. How about Silver Service? -----Original Message----- From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> To: busy-boy <busy-boy@...> Cc: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Friday, July 23, 1999 12:21 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Zephyr Names >How about naming the dining car "Silver Spoon?" The closest thing the >real Zephyrs had was the "Silver Tureen." -- Keith Thompson in Seattle > >busy-boy wrote: >> >> From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> >> >> John Griffin wrote: >> >The train name is "The Heritage Special" based on our area being known as >> "The >> >Heritage Corridor". >> >> I think it ought to be the Heritage Zephyr. Name each car for a different >> form of wind since a Zephyr is a wind, a gentle breeze. >> >> Cars could be "Sea Breeze", "Mariah", "North Wind", "Gale Force", "Sudden >> Gust", "Whispering Wind", "Winds of Change" and so on. Look in a thesaurus >> for other wind synonyms and get creative. >> >> Have fun, >> Chris Zizzo >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> ONElist now has T-SHIRTS! >> http://www.onelist.com >> Check out homepage for details. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >> List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4155	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Convention cars

What is the latest on when those of use who could not make it to St. Paul can order the convention cars; I'm hoping for one each 2-bay and 3-bay M&StL., scale versions.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4156	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: eBay item#135369412: American Flier New Haven Pullman Car

Yeah, and its busted too....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4157	From: Glen E. Presley	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 308 unsubscribe

-----Original Message----- From: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Sunday, July 18, 1999 3:29 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Digest Number 308 > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Get $20 off all MotherNature brand products! ><a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/mothernature1 ">Click Here</a> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >There are 21 messages in this issue. > >Topics in today's digest: > > 1. Re: MESA me, missing you > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> > 2. Last call for SMG ??? > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > 3. Re: [Proto64] Last call for SMG ??? > From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> > 4. RE: Digest Number 307 > From: Richard.Spritz@... > 5. S/Sn3 Modeling Guide - R.I.P. > From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> > 6. e-Bay > From: borj <borj@...> > 7. Spritz re S Scale Connection > From: Richard Karnes <karnesrn@...> > 8. Re: Ebay description, a classic!! > From: Dale Smith <dfsmith@...> > 9. Re: Digest Number 307 > From: "Roy Hoffman" <rhoffman@...> > 10. Re: Spritz re S Scale Connection > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > 11. Trade: AM Pennsy for NYC units > From: Alan Evans <rockyfork@...> > 12. How to fill the void?? > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > 13. Re: How to fill the void?? > From: Richard Karnes <karnesrn@...> > 14. AC power > From: Jacques Ollivier <jolliv@...> > 15. Brass Alloy AM Flex Track > From: "Marinello, Jon" <jon.marinello@...> > 16. Re: Cannibalizing engines > From: PortLines@... > 17. Re: How to fill the void?? > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > 18. A disPATCH to cover the hole?? > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > 19. sorry ..wrong grouping!! > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > 20. Loss of S/Sn3 Modeling Guide. > From: "George Courtney" <george@...> > 21. Re: How to fill the void?? > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 06:28:15 -0400 > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> >Subject: Re: MESA me, missing you > >Dear Paul, > The MESA black CB&Q three bay PS-2 covered hoppers, The NASG 1999 >convention M&StL 2 and 3 bay , RSSVP Jack Frost 2 bay as well as the rest >of the 2 bay and 3 bay covered hoppers arrived last Tuesday at our new >warehouse. The MESA cars, NASG convention cars and RSSVP cars were shipped >to Glen Sponholtz the same day via UPS. We are still shipping the rest of >the cars and will finish on Monday. >Don Thompson > >"Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > >> From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> >> >> I just received my new issue of the NASG magazine. >> Kudos to editor Jeff Madden (who I used to work at >> Kalmbach with in the Dark Old Days, not that it >> matters). >> >> Question: Any word on those Burlington black covered >> hoppers fromt he MESA crowd? I see they cashed my >> check, but no sign of the cars in my P.O. box. >> >> No big deal, I'm just curious. Lord knows I have >> enough to deal with now that I bought a bunch of used >> scale AM diesels (the FAs and RS3 were marketed by >> S-Helper, according to the seller). >> >> Paul Schneider >> San Francisco >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> Books, music, auctions, and more. Amazon.com! >> <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/Amazon6 ">Click Here</a> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >> List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >-- >Don Thompson >S Helper Service Inc. >http://www.showcaseline.com >1.800.465.0303 > > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 22:05:14 +1000 > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> >Subject: Last call for SMG ??? > >Please, someone tell me this aint so!!! >Had wondered why I hadn't recieved an issue for a while. >In event of actuality, then a big thankyou to Bill >Damn shame, damn shame >:~(( Richard > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 09:35:08 -0700 > From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> >Subject: Re: [Proto64] Last call for SMG ??? > >Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote: >> >> Can someone tell me (us) what this is all about????????? Ed L. > >A post on S-Trains indicated Bill Wade is notifying subscribers via >snail mail that S/Sn3 Modeling Guide is ceasing publication. Here is the >message: > >+ From: JFR040436@... >+ >+ Some on the list may remember, 1/16"S"cale Railroading magazine. It >died >+ about this time back in 1992. Today by snail mail I got the word that >Bill >+ Wade is pulling the plug on his, S/Sn3 Modeling Guide. I'm sure many >of us >+ are going to miss it. Are there not enough of us in "scale" to support >a >+ magazine that is s"scale only"? > >I haven't received a notice in the mail yet and I haven't seen any other >posts regarding this yet so I'm still a little skeptical until we hear >it from Bill himself or see something on his web page. -- Keith Thompson >in Seattle > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 10:40:51 -0600 > From: Richard.Spritz@... >Subject: RE: Digest Number 307 > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:41:36 -0400 (EDT) > From: JFR040436@... >Subject: Another Publication Dies > >Some on the list may remember, 1/16"S"cale Railroading magazine. It died >about this time back in 1992. Today by snail mail I got the word that >Bill >Wade is pulling the plug on his, S/Sn3 Modeling Guide. I'm sure many of >us >are going to miss it. Are there not enough of us in "scale" to support a >magazine that is s"scale only"? > >Probably not, when you consider the small number of S-gaugers overall, the >small fraction into S-scale, and the existence of other S publications. I >am not into S-scale; I am into tinplate and AF. But it seemed amazing to me >that, when my wife and I walked into 'Denver's S-Scale Connection' store, >looking for items we might buy for our new layout ('Caboose Hobbies' having >almost nothing in S), the proprietor completely ignored us for the 20 >minutes we were in the (quite small) store. Like we were non-existent. >Perhaps SO many people come into that store and he does SUCH high volume >that the proprieter is prefectly willing to have motivated buyers walk out, >planning never to return. He must be VERY busy, what with all of the >S-scalers he has to service. All I know is that, had I been an naive but >interested walk-in, an opportunity to get me into S-scale was lost. I would >have walked out in disgust and gone to Caboose Hobbies next door, and would >have bought G-gauge, HO, or whatever. Anything but S-scale. > >Rich Spritz > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:50:48 -0400 > From: "B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade" <wadepub@...> >Subject: S/Sn3 Modeling Guide - R.I.P. > >Howdy Friends > >Yes, the S/Sn3 Modeling Guide has ceased publication. > >Diane and I knew when I started this publication 6.5 years >ago to expect to lose money for the first two-three years until we had >become "established" in the industry. Sadly, we have lost more money >than we ever expected to lose and continue to do so. And while I have >kept hoping the next issue would be the one to turn things around, the >reality is that the advertising base continues to shrink as does the >readership. > >Not sure why. The readers liked it. The advertisers noted that they got >responses. Go figure.... > >Anyway, below is a copy of the letter that was mailed on Wednesday >morning. Sorry >that the snail-mail is slow going west. > > Take care, Bill > > > >"Dear Subscribers > >After some very difficult thoughts this past weekend, and six-plus years >of very hard work, we have decided to stop publishing the S/Sn3 Modeling >Guide; the March/April 1999 was the final issue. While some may think >otherwise, the reason for this difficult decision is pure economics. > >While waiting for the scanner to be repaired - the hardware problem that >greatly delayed the May/June - I gave a hard look at the books and >pondered the magazine�s future. For the last two years, each issue of >the magazine has lost money. The number of subscribers has been slowly >shrinking, and the number of advertisers has decreased also. We have >tried every way possible to increase the readership and advertising >base, but it just has not happened. Looking at the numbers for the >May/June issue showed that another big loss was coming. While I have >tried to remain positive about it all, it is time to finally face >reality. > >In addition to the financial loss, the small number of articles we have >received has made it very stressful to put together a well-balanced >magazine. It has been a struggle for the last three years to make each >issue look good, and many issues were not up to our expectations of the >magazine. Usually, we have only a handful of articles in the file to >consider for each issue, and sometimes less than what we needed. We >could have accepted the Flyer articles we were offered, and that would >have also increased circulation, but that was not the intent of this >publication. > >Enclosed with this letter is a credit memo from B.T.S. for the balance >of your subscription. For now, we do have a good supply of back issues >and you may use your credit to complete your collection, if you are >missing a few issues, or use it for any of the products in stock at >B.T.S. > >After the NMRA convention, we will look over the articles we are holding >and will either send them back to the authors, or if they agree, forward >them on to our friends at Railroad Model Craftsman and Model >Railroading, both excellent modeling magazines. I encourage you to write >articles about your modeling in S scale and submit them to the >mainstream publications. The growth of the scale will be greatly helped >by having others see what we have in S today. > >I am truly sorry to have to do this. We are not deserting S scale, but >it is time for us to cut our losses and move on to other S scale >projects. Diane and I have always appreciated your support of our >publishing efforts and the many positive comments you have made, and are >grateful to have had an opportunity to create the S/Sn3 Modeling Guide >for your enjoyment. > > >Respectfully >Bill Wade, Jr. > > >-- >=============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ > Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer >Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 > B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com > S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com > Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 11:14:25 -0600 > From: borj <borj@...> >Subject: e-Bay > >Something you guys might think about as far as eBay goes. There are not to >many places that guys like me can get started in the hobby again, where we >are not in the mercy of someone's misconception of the Greenbergs rating, at >least with eBay you can control what you purchase (sometimes) and see what >your getting most of the time. I've made some really good purchases and some >not so good. But that's life. If you want the piece you'll pay the price. >At least in the beginning. > > Bill Sandrus Boise ID > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 7 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:12:12 -0700 > From: Richard Karnes <karnesrn@...> >Subject: Spritz re S Scale Connection > >I think most hobby-shop proprietors are genuinely conscientious. Most, in my >experience, assume that people like to do solitary browsing. I personally hate >it if/when I am approached by a sales person in a hobby store. I am a browser. >But if I want something in particular, I go up to the counter and ask for it. >So I suggest that if you want assistance, you should ask. > >Dick Karnes > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 12:47:32 -0700 > From: Dale Smith <dfsmith@...> >Subject: Re: Ebay description, a classic!! > >Actually on this one, I would give the seller a break here. His pictures were fantastic, even though his description was a >bit inaccurate. Remember, he said he was new to toy trains. From his pictures, I could identify it as a 1946 (round head >valve gear rivets) smoke in tender Hudson, with dirty, perhaps rusty, side rods, flaking paint, bent and probably jammed >valve gear, rusty motor, missing right front handrail on tender, right boiler handrail bent, ladder rail on tender bent. The >question I pose to the rest of you is how would you grade this locomotive. Here we have very detailed pictures from the >internet that we can all see. I don't consider myself an expert on this subject and would be interested in what the rest of >you think. I would probably give it a fair to good rating. Fair because of the paint flaking and rust, but not all that >bad. The price? A bit high at $100 and they haven't stopped yet. In fact that $100 is the first bid!! David Dewey, >remember this guy's name and send him a direct e-mail and ask him to make an offer when you want to sell something. I bought >a similar Hudson at a train show about a year and a half ago for $45. Condition was better and cleaner with no rust, but SIT >unit was missing. I lucked into a couple of used units for 10-15 each and was able to get a working unit out of it. > >As to E-Bay price discussions on the group, I think it is very appropriate. Price information is of great interest to >collectors or collector/operators on this list. I'm not interested in Proto64 stuff, but a lot of people are. I just pass >through it quickly. Those who aren't interested in E-Bay info can do the same. > >Dale Smith > >Neil Trump wrote: > >> From: "Neil Trump" <neil_trump@...> >> >> Here's another one to have a laugh with. >> >> They all seem to be in very good condition with no obvious defects, but do show *very* minor wear from "normal play" use. >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131963392 >> >> Neil T. >> >> [Attachments have been removed from this message] >> >> --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >> Congratulations MilitaryEFM. Our latest ONElist of the week. >> http://www.onelist.com >> How is ONElist changing YOUR life? Visit our homepage and let us know! >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >> List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:58:53 -0400 > From: "Roy Hoffman" <rhoffman@...> >Subject: Re: Digest Number 307 > >The guy who works at the S Scale Conection is just an employee. He didn't >say much to me either, but when he did speak, it was to tell me that >everything in the store but the brass was 25% off. I guess their motto was: >"Speak softly but carry a big discount". I'm sorry to see yet another >S-scale magazine stop publishing. Bill did say in his letter that he did not >get many articles sent to him for inclusion in the magazine. He was even >willing to pay for them unlike some other S publications. Maybe when all is >said and done, there aren't enough scalers to support a special interest >publication and we'll have to settle for occasional S-scale articles in MR, >RMC, etc. Sad! >Roy Hoffman > >-----Original Message----- >From: Richard.Spritz@... <Richard.Spritz@...> >To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> >Date: Saturday, July 17, 1999 12:40 PM >Subject: RE: [S-Trains] Digest Number 307 > > >>From: Richard.Spritz@... >> >> Message: 12 >> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 22:41:36 -0400 (EDT) >> From: JFR040436@... >>Subject: Another Publication Dies >> >>Some on the list may remember, 1/16"S"cale Railroading magazine. It died >>about this time back in 1992. Today by snail mail I got the word that >>Bill >>Wade is pulling the plug on his, S/Sn3 Modeling Guide. I'm sure many of >>us >>are going to miss it. Are there not enough of us in "scale" to support a >>magazine that is s"scale only"? >> >>Probably not, when you consider the small number of S-gaugers overall, the >>small fraction into S-scale, and the existence of other S publications. I >>am not into S-scale; I am into tinplate and AF. But it seemed amazing to >me >>that, when my wife and I walked into 'Denver's S-Scale Connection' store, >>looking for items we might buy for our new layout ('Caboose Hobbies' having >>almost nothing in S), the proprietor completely ignored us for the 20 >>minutes we were in the (quite small) store. Like we were non-existent. >>Perhaps SO many people come into that store and he does SUCH high volume >>that the proprieter is prefectly willing to have motivated buyers walk out, >>planning never to return. He must be VERY busy, what with all of the >>S-scalers he has to service. All I know is that, had I been an naive but >>interested walk-in, an opportunity to get me into S-scale was lost. I >would >>have walked out in disgust and gone to Caboose Hobbies next door, and would >>have bought G-gauge, HO, or whatever. Anything but S-scale. >> >>Rich Spritz >> >>--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- >> >>Your anytime, anywhere sports store. Fogdog Sports. >><a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/fogdog1 ">Click Here</a> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >>List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >> > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 10 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 14:51:18 -0700 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> >Subject: Re: Spritz re S Scale Connection > >Hmmm > Two years ago we were in Denver, and I did the obligatory visit to >Caboose Hobbies. While it is a nice store, I was sorely disapointed in their >S selection (uh, non-selection, that is!). But, even though I asked about S, >no one directed me to any other nearby or distant store. So there is an S >store next door? Sounds like maybe I didn't miss much. Maybe the counter >people get their training from the Red Caboose people.<G> >S' >David D. > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 18:19:26 -0400 > From: Alan Evans <rockyfork@...> >Subject: Trade: AM Pennsy for NYC units > >TRADE American Models red Pennsy A-B-A PA Alcos in DC hi >rail (no bell or whistle) for New York Central set DC hi >rail AM A-B-A Alco Set. Only test run this set. > > Alan Evans, (614) 471-7277 (days) or 614-471-7701 >(evenings) > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 12 > Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:03:39 +1000 > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> >Subject: How to fill the void?? > >Where to now?? > >For those of us wanting to push the S-Scale barrow, a battle is lost, >the war still goes on. Best news , no one killed , as they say. > >(with apologies to CD) > >It is the best of times, it is the worst of times....at the end of the >day they are these times, and they are ours. > >Other than possibly greater use of the Net as a medium, and given the >loss of a Quality banner , how might we continue the good fight . Might >we approach S-Gaugian with renewed vigour as a champion of our >cause...granted some might say that Don has always given pages to this, >but maybe we need to revisit this stalwart of 1:64 railroading. > >Maybe we might persuade him to extend Sn3 modeler from two to four >issuesa year and to include standard guage as well (yeah I know , >recreating the S/Sn3 guide in defacto guise, is that SO BAD??) > >I have yet to have any correspondence with the gentelman, maybe someone >else (you listening Jeff?? ) can make an approach. > >Anyone with any pull with the majors, this is the time to have a quiet >word about including a few more 1:64 articles. > >What other methods can we implement ?? > >Thanks Bill, and thanks Ed and also to those others with the Herald etc. >It has all made a difference., and I for one appreciate it. Also >plaudits to those utilizing the web to showcase the best size in the >hobby. > >>:~)) Richard > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 13 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:24:14 -0700 > From: Richard Karnes <karnesrn@...> >Subject: Re: How to fill the void?? > >With reference to the note below from Richard Snook: > >Don't expect a commercial venture to fill the void. I'd throw in my lot >with the NASG. An influx of scale people would be good for the >organization. And the NASG has a magazine that accepts articles from its >readership... Might accept more ads too. > >Dick Karnes > >> From: Richard <richard_snook@...> >> >> Where to now?? >> >> Other than possibly greater use of the Net as a medium, and given the >> loss of a Quality banner , how might we continue the good fight . Might >> we approach S-Gaugian with renewed vigour as a champion of our >> cause...granted some might say that Don has always given pages to this, >> but maybe we need to revisit this stalwart of 1:64 railroading. >> >> Maybe we might persuade him to extend Sn3 modeler from two to four >> issuesa year and to include standard guage as well (yeah I know , >> recreating the S/Sn3 guide in defacto guise, is that SO BAD??) >> >> I have yet to have any correspondence with the gentelman, maybe someone >> else (you listening Jeff?? ) can make an approach. >> >> Anyone with any pull with the majors, this is the time to have a quiet >> word about including a few more 1:64 articles. >> >> What other methods can we implement ?? > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:12:43 +0000 > From: Jacques Ollivier <jolliv@...> >Subject: AC power > >Hi guys (and gals?) > >I'm not converting to DC, but I'm having a great time putting together >some interesting locos (0-4-0 from a Casey Jones, streetcar from an old >handcar chassis, etc.). I was wondering, is there a source for AC >motors for modeling similar to DC? > >I bought a stereo system at a garage sale last summer. Since I didn't >need the turntable, I started "parting it out" for screws and other >treasures. The whole thing cost me $10.00. Darned if that beggar >wasn't powered by an AC 12-18 volt motor. I hooked it up to a >transformer, and it ran great! It's waiting for me to figure out how to >get the juice to and from the wheels of a wooden interurban I was given. > >Any ideas on reversing homemade engines? > >Thanks, >Jacques > >P.S. I hit the Theodore Tugboat section again. I picked up a small >crane. It looks pretty cool next to the sawmill. You scale guys could >probably make it look decent with some weathering. It looks like a toy >on my layout. It fits right in : ) > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:33:48 -0700 > From: "Marinello, Jon" <jon.marinello@...> >Subject: Brass Alloy AM Flex Track > >Hi All, > >I'm seriously looking at the American Models brass alloy flex track for my >new layout. I have read plenty about how brass is not as good as the >standard track alloy. Does anyone have experience with the AM track. I just >got a sample and it looks real nice. I like the uneven ties. However, if it >doesn't wear well or has significant corrosion problems because it is brass >I want to look for other track. > >I want to run my high rail AF stuff as well as my scale stuff on the same >track. But I don't want to use my AF track anymore. In fact I have a lot of >it to sell along with new repro rubber roadbed if anyone is interested. I >also have 3 or 4 pairs of switches in real nice condition. I will probably >sell it all on eBay. > >Comments on the AM flex track or other similar flex track would be >appreciated! > >Thanks, > >--jon > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Jon Marinello >PulsePoint Communications >(805) 566-2000 >Email jon.marinello@... >Web: http://www.plpt.com > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 16 > Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 00:00:34 EDT > From: PortLines@... >Subject: Re: Cannibalizing engines > > >In a message dated 7/8/99 5:52:09 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: > ><< As someone who has a love for AF trains, I can't bring myself to >disassemble my them into pieces and >part it out to get more money at sale time. Doesn't seem right, does it? > >> > >I have to agree. I can tell you that even as a Parts Dealer, I HATE to >cannabalize any piece of AF for its parts. I ONLY do it when the item is >essentially a broken destroyed piece to begin with. I've even got items such >as a nice 290 engine, but with the cowcatcher snapped off, sitting on the >shelf because it bothers me to take it apart!!!! ><<I recently bid on some 336 wheels, but gave up when >they went for something like $80.00. Way too much just for a new set of >tires. >> >On this I have to disagree with you. Assuming it was all 8 wheels, $80 is a >good deal !!! Northern drivers are VERY tough to come by. I'd pay $10 >apiece for them anytime........and that's for resale purposes!!!! >Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only >Port Lines Hobby Supply >6 Storeybrooke Drive >Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 >portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 17 > Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 21:10:11 -0700 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> >Subject: Re: How to fill the void?? > >Well, I'm sorry to see the S/Sn3 mag go, I think it has always been held in >high esteem (or is the "esteam"?), and will be missed. Maybe this lethargic >economy we are in is to blame (ulike the "booming" economy the Gov't. >claims!). >As to filling the Void, looks like an opportune time for the Dispatch! S >Gaugain is nice, but the Dispatch is the NASG organ, and I think the club is >pulling us all together for S. At least that's the direction I'm reading >from here. >S' >David D. > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 18 > Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:46:39 +1000 > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> >Subject: A disPATCH to cover the hole?? > >Since my recent posting a few have as indeed did Jeff himself hope that >the Dispatch would help to fill the void...indeed I hope it does as >well. > >Now don't get me wrong here, because I do indeed value the efforts of >the NASG, Jeff and his crew do a marvellous job. I look forward to the >mag in the letter box. >..."don't expect a Commercial Mag to fill the hole".......I sort offeel >that some sort of commercial effort is exactly what IS needed to help >out here. The NASG Dispatch works well....but it is preaching to the >converted and we gladly and thankfully recieve in into our modelling. >But there ARE a lot of Scalers who aren't 100% enamoured with the NASG, >rightly or wrongly....this just IS the situation. > >please keep in mind that S/Sn3 was a "refuge" from other non-scale >efforts. I do not wish to offenfd anyone's sensibilities, or indded >start a debate on the merits of either persuasion....each to their own >and more power for it. > >Maybe there aren't the numbers to make a scale mag work??? I really hope >in my heart that that isn't the case....Bill has obvious proof that it >indeed might be. > >The Dispatch reaches how many ?? definitely not the numbers of >S-Gaugian maybe the match the size of readership of Sn3 (Dons not Bills) >. >There is the perception thing...I likened S/SN3 to say Mainline Modeller >in its character...and Dispatch to NMRA's Bulletin....all fine >publications but different reasons for being. > >Dick, Ed and Bill..Sam and others probably are absolutely right that I >shouldn't expect a commercially orientated mag to work for us >scalers...expect ..no.......desire .....YES > >I honestly believe that S-Scale Standard Guage modelers have more in >common with their Narrow gauge cousins than say Flyer orientate

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4158	From: Dave Heine	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: S Lists

Roy, You forgot the Sn2 list, which does really exist. This is getting as bad as the proposals to split rec.models.railroad that surface every few months. Remember what happened when rec.railroads was destroyed by splitting. What would some of the people do if they subscribed to one of the newsgroups that get 10,000+ postings a day. Dave Heine ----- Original Message ----- From: Roy Hoffman <rhoffman@...> To: <s-trains@onelist.com> Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 11:03 AM Subject: [S-Trains] S Lists > From: "Roy Hoffman" <rhoffman@...> > > TOP TEN S LISTS: > > 10- s-americanflyerlinkcouplers > 9- s-americanflyerknucklecouplers > 8- s-americanflyerpikemaster > 7- s-americanflyerlyin-L > 6- s-highrail > 5- s-combinationof6to10 > 4- s-rivetcounters > 3- s-scratchbuilders > 2- sn3-easternnarrowgauge > 1- sn3-colorado (ssh! they think they're the only list) > > I hope nobody got left out. > > Roy Hoffman > > > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Enter ONElist's WEEKLY DRAWING for $100! > http://www.onelist.com > By joining the FRIENDS & FAMILY PROGRAM. See homepage for details. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4159	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: Zephyr Names

Getting back to his chosen selections, "Sudden Gust" could be a dinner! Or maybe "Passing Wind" ??? Who ME??? -David

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4160	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Pressing need

There are several tools available to truck rivets and couplers. To take link coupler pins out Doug Peck (and probably the other parts dealers) has a little hollow cylinder that fits over the rivet head (about $1). You support the coupler with this and drive the rivet out with a hammer. They also have a tool that spreads the link coupler pin to set it in place when installing a new coupler ($10 I think). Carl's Toy Trains offers the Brakeman's Riveter which is used to set knuckler coupler rivets, and the Brakeman's Super Riveter which is used to set truck rivets. I have the Super Riveter and it works well. Have not used the Riveter. See Carl's tools at: http://www.tiac.net/users/carls Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4161	From: Richard	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: idea for next years get together

I'm not wishing to put the hard word on anyone here, this is just an idea. Conventions are a lot of fun, but we don't all get to go. As a way of feeling like we are there and all, would it be possible that a convention web page have daily updates, maybe showing news releases, competition winners with maybe some PIX, images of some layouts on show ...you know all the typical stuff of a big meet. You don't need a digital camera per se...a video can be link to give good results. Oh yeah, sending to these two lists is a LOT easier. Back to the web page thing, not trying to take away any glory or exposure that the Mags give, just thought it might be intersting to have like an interactive quality to the event. >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4162	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/23/1999
Subject: Re: idea for next years get together

Richard & ALL, GREAT IDEA!!! I love it. Hmm, probably work for someone, but how about the organizing committee, or ??? Would really be neat!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4163	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: Rivet tool

<< From: Jacques Ollivier <jolliv@...> Subject: pressing need Hi all, I am interested in buying a rivet press of some type. I want to be able to replace link couplers, attach trucks, fix knuckle couplers, etc. I am a train-poor school teacher, so the one I purchase needs to be resonable. Any ideas? >> We HIGHLY recommend the Brakeman's Super-Riveter, which we carry. Although we also carry the inexpensive (but acceptable) tools that you hit with a hammer, the BSR is far superior, and hammerless. At $58.95, you get the riveting tool, a tip for truck rivets, and a backing post & stand. For $25 more, you can add the separate set of tips for removing and installing link couplers, plus the appropriate backing stand for that use. And finally, for another $24, you can add the tip and backing post for setting the hollow brass eyelets used on the later cars. All three of the above: $100. It's a lot, but if you plan to do any significant amount of repairwork of this nature, it is well worth it. I use mine all the time! (And I have a Hobby Horse press which I rarely use, as a result!) MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4164	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Strip show

Now that I have your attention, there have been several posts to the S-Trains list in the past looking for ways to strip chrome off of plastic. I found a copy of A Scale Auto Enthusiast magazine article that covers this subject online at http://www2.scaleautomag.com/scaleauto/features/articlesamples/Decmbr98.pdf. You'll need an Adobe Acrobat Reader to view the article which you can download from http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html. Just thought I'd share that tidbit with you all. Now let's strip! -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4165	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: caboose

I am making a 36ft old wooden caboose in Sn42. I was wondering where to find the end pieces (steps,platform,ladder,etc)for the caboose. Making it out of an old wooden boxcar. Thank You Andrew Baird Nfld Rlwy Canada

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4166	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: Strip show

I down loaded this reader an have been unable to get it to work Larry Keith Thompson wrote: > From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> > > Now that I have your attention, there have been several posts to the > S-Trains list in the past looking for ways to strip chrome off of > plastic. I found a copy of A Scale Auto Enthusiast magazine article that > covers this subject online at > http://www2.scaleautomag.com/scaleauto/features/articlesamples/Decmbr98.pdf. > You'll need an Adobe Acrobat Reader to view the article which you can > download from http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html. Just > thought I'd share that tidbit with you all. Now let's strip! -- Keith > Thompson in Seattle > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Enter ONElist�s WEEKLY DRAWING for $100! > http://www.onelist.com > By joining the FRIENDS & FAMILY PROGRAM. See homepage for details. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4167	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: 4 different s-gauge list

Lysdexics, UNTIE! cz

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4168	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Ho-Ho-Ho

Jacques Ollivier wrote: Dang, a few HOers have taught me some tricks too. A few HOers taught me some tricks, too, but none of them like being called a ho. cz

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4169	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: Ho-Ho-Ho

Too bad your name isn't John! ROTFLMAO -- Keith Thompson in Seattle busy-boy wrote: > > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > > Jacques Ollivier wrote: > Dang, a few HOers have taught me some tricks too. > > A few HOers taught me some tricks, too, but none of them like being called a > ho. > > cz > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com! > http://www.onelist.com > If you join ONElist�s FRIENDS & FAMILY program. See homepage. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4170	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Lionel's feedback page URL

Charles Day wrote: Post lionel's e-mail address and let us ALL send them a regretful message about AF, so the marketing department can have more than "one" modeler's feelings. Go here: http://www.lionel.com/central/talk/talk.html and post your regrets from this form style page. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4171	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: digesting multiple lists & NASG

Yo! Digest readers (well, at least one of you). Please don't hit REPLY when you respond to a message; you end up posting the ENTIRE FREAKIN' DIGEST to the list. This causes your fellow digest reader considerable pain, located strategically in the posterior. On another note... It's hard to say more than Chris Burger's insightful comment, "They're all toy trains!" This dawned on me recently when I hesitated to include some AF cars with the scale cars on my wall display. Scale, proto64, hi-rail--to anyone who's not a model railroader, they're just toys. And they're right. As for a separate list: This scale is small enough with sub-dividing it and plastering "Members Only!" at every gate. I started off as a Flyer enthusiast, moved easily into hi-rail when I learned that S-Helper and others had rejuvinated the hobby and am now settling into S scale. Personally, I find the Flyer and hi-rail posts to S-Trains fascinating for the most part; I, for one, would miss them. Finally, Jeff Madden recently wrote me off-list and encouraged me to invite two of my friends (one AF guy, one hi-railer) to join the NASG. The Flyer guy wrote me back and said he hated organizations (he singled out the NMRA in particular) and blah blah blah. The other guy, the hi-railer, said, in essence, he couldn't be bothered, he just wanted to run trains and didn't want to get involved with elections and other organizational brouhaha (ha ha!) I wrote back and said hey, I'm hardly an organization-kinda guy. But at the very least you get the newsletter AND you get the satisfaction of supporting S gauge, at least by adding your name to the ranks of the True Believers. It didn't work. They declined to budge. Which got me wondering: Do others on this list feel or think the same way? Is there a reluctance to joni the NASG? Which reminds me: Hey Jeff! I joined after Lee Johnson put an S gauge gun to my head, but where's my NASG secret decoder ring (number, that is) so I can order all that cool stuff for NASG-members only? Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4172	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Replying to the list

Paul's note on replying is true, unless you go into your mail program's "options" menu (on Outlook, it's under "Tools") and modify the Sending options, usually you need to deselect the "Include message in reply" option. For some @@#@ reason, including is the default in these programs, yet most users do not like that! I sent this by "replying to all", because if I only "Reply to author", it goes to Paul only. I can easily delete Paul's address in the "To" area if I don't want him to get duplicates (like I did this time). BUT notice, I'm not also sending Paul's original message, nor the digest either, in this note. If you need to include some of the original message for clarity, you can just copy and paste it in. End of Windows lesson! Back to trains!! S' David Dewey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4173	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: One possible solution

Paul-- Personally I like your suggestion to keep Flyer and Highrail on S-Trains and to split the scale-stuff off to a separate list. Speaking as someone currently only interested in highrail, I find the S scale-related topics rather boring...and I usually just skip right over them when I receive a new daily digest. That's not to say that my interests might not move more toward scale in the future -- but if and when that happens I'll gladly subscribe to the S-Scale list! Thanks for all you do for S -- whether Proto, Scale, or otherwise! -=[ Brian ]=-

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4174	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: Replying to the list

> I sent this by "replying to all", because if I only >"Reply to author", it goes to Paul only. I can easily delete Paul's address >in the "To" area if I don't want him to get duplicates (like I did this >time). On other lists I have subscribed to on onelist, I can "reply to author" and it goes back to the list. Is this an option that the list owner can choose? Would this be a good option for this list? Anybody have any opinions on this? I would prefer that "reply to author" go back to the list so that it would encourage responses to go to the list rather than be private off-list e-mail.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4175	From: busy-boy	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: 4 different s-gauge list

Old Beelzebub never brought him trains either. Now he's another young convert to OUR hell! CZ -----Original Message----- From: David Dewey <djdewey@...> To: busy-boy <busy-boy@...> Date: Saturday, July 24, 1999 2:12 PM Subject: Re: 4 different s-gauge list >Chris, > Did you hear about teh dyslexic punk-rocker?? > >For last five years he's been worshipping Santa ! > >;-) >David >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4176	From: Kempfam@aol.com	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Lionel e-mail

E-mail address to The Big L is Lionelmi@.... They are pretty good at responding. Trouble is they are pretty closed-mouthed. Ron Kemp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4177	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: E-Bay

I have to ask, the item listed as Dealer Display # 23036 stapled closed on E-Bay..what is it really worth? the bid is at $752.00 and reserve still not met??? Could anyone please fill me in..thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4178	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: E-Bay

>From: Ben Kronenwetter <bg@...> > >I have to ask, the item listed as Dealer Display # 23036 stapled closed >on E-Bay..what is it really worth? the bid is at $752.00 and reserve >still not met??? >Could anyone please fill me in..thanks 12 bottles of smoke fluid and 12 bottles of track cleaner fluid? I'd bid about 24 dollars, but that's just crazy me. Although I really don't need the smoke fluid 'cause I bought a lifetime supply (a quart!) of lamp oil at K-mart for $1.99 that works better than any smoke fluid I ever had. And as I further understand the track cleaner was the same formula as the smoke fluid. I wonder if I could use the lamp oil to clean the track? DeoxIT works pretty good though, I think I'll stick with it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4179	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: St. Paul

Any news from St. Paul yet? Also, I turst they have been busy there and have not had a chance to advise on my earlier question about ordering the left over convention cars,

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4180	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: Re: E-Bay, unopened display box

Ben That's a tough one! Here's this box from AF, addressed to the L company and labled "samples", and unopened! Myself, it would make a great, "Hey guys, Lookit this!" item. Now what such an item is worth, depends on your financial condition. IF I won the lottery, I could afford it, but would I get it?? Hmm, probably not! I don't think any of the value guides can help here! But what a neat research question this brings up! How much co-operation was there between the "big two" when sales started dropping off?? Or even before that; I understand that the both purchased Ives together. Hmmm.... S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4181	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: MTH #140 Banjo Signal question...

Hey 'S'-ers -- I plunked down $40 at my local hobby shop for a brand-new #140 Banjo Signal from MTH. The pressure trip really does work well with the Flyer track and trains. I've got an old 293 which (of course) is heavy enough to trigger the trip, and I was able to adjust it well enough to keep the signal going for the length of the rest of the train. It tends to switch off where I have two gondolas together in the middle of the train. Guess I need to give them a load to carry, huh? Anyway, my question is about the operation of the swinging stop sign. It has one of those vibrating motors and the sign motion is sloppy and erratic. It usually has trouble on the "up" stroke (from 6:00 to 12:00). I've no experience with these types of motors. Is this really representative of how poorly some of the old toy train stuff worked, or do I have a defective unit?? If any of you have some insights, I'd appreciate reading them. I've emailed MTH about it, but also wanted to get some opinions from this list's members. I just am having a hard time believing that MTH could make such a *gorgeous* piece of work like this signal and then give it such a bad mechanism. However, if their intent was to 100% duplicate the original, erratic operation of some of the old train accessories, then they've done an excellent job! <grin> -=[ Brian ]=- _______________________________________________________ I don't suffer from insanity....I rather enjoy it! _______________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4182	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 7/24/1999
Subject: banjo signal

MTH's banjo signal does seem slow on the uptake. I have 2 brand L banjo signals, and they do work more smoothly-it's their trip that's a bigger pain in the butt to set. Either signal should work better with a modern transformer-just ask the can motor crowd. BTW, IMNSHO, when you have virtually no other operating accessories to compare them to,vintage and vintage type accessories aren't too shabby.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4183	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Convention Pix

In response to Richard's comment about convention pictures... I would love to publish some photos from the convention. Please send them to me. I can scan them and return the originals, if you like. I prefer that you send me scanned images, Use 75-100 dpi on your scanner. JPG is best for photos. If you send me the actual photos in the mail, its best to send me copies. If you want the prints back, include a self addressed envelope. Always send me the names of the people in the photos and the owners of any trains, so we can give credit to the correct people. I am always looking for pictures and content, photos are great. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4184	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Re: E-Bay, unopened display box

Somehow the old slang phrase "pig in a poke" comes to mind. David Dewey wrote: > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Ben > That's a tough one! Here's this box from AF, addressed to the L company > and labled "samples", and unopened! Myself, it would make a great, "Hey > guys, Lookit this!" item. Now what such an item is worth, depends on your > financial condition. IF I won the lottery, I could afford it, but would I > get it?? Hmm, probably not! I don't think any of the value guides can help > here! But what a neat research question this brings up! How much > co-operation was there between the "big two" when sales started dropping > off?? Or even before that; I understand that the both purchased Ives > together. Hmmm.... > S' > David D. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Your anytime, anywhere sports store. Fogdog Sports. > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/fogdog2 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4185	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: collectors

Just catching up on my reading. In the July 19 issue of New Yorker Magazine there is a long and fascinating article on Alex Shear, the Sultan of Stuff. He is a guy who has been obsessively collecting stuff that no one else wants for years, and of course a lot of it is now quite valuable. There is talk of building a museum to house his collection, he is used by ad agencies, and has been consulting to e-bay among other things. Very interesting article. Anyway, his comment on train collectors: "The model-train guys are the worst -- the most anal retentive." Agree? Disagree? Comments? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4186	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Re: collectors

MUST have been talking about the "L" guys... (S)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4187	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Re: collectors

You mean you're not supposed to keep everything? Whad-a-ya-know! Trains16@... wrote: > > From: Trains16@... > > MUST have been talking about the "L" guys... (S) > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com by starting a new list at ONElist. > http://www.onelist.com > Weekly drawing is held each Friday. See homepage for details! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4188	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Re: St. Paul

At 09:52 PM 7/24/99 -0500, Dave and Kathy Engle wrote: >From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > >Any news from St. Paul yet? Also, I turst they have been busy there >and have not had a chance to advise on my earlier question about >ordering the left over convention cars, I can't answer your question about leftover cars, and can only write a short convention note as I'm in the Metropolitan lounge in Chicago waiting for the Lake Shore Limited to get back home. But I do have to say I really enjoyed the convention -- the local team did a great job! Also I have to note that in my travels around the National Train Show (the show was open Fri PM, Sat and today), I heard a lot of comments from dealers & manufacturers about the tremendous interest they saw in products for the S gauge market. I suspect a lot of this was due to the joint cooperating activities of the NMRA & NASG conventions. I think this was an excellent idea, and hope it will continue in San Jose! It brings a show of force by S gaugers to one of the year's best manufacturer-attended train shows. Also saw a fair number of NASG registrants participating in NMRA convention clinics on Thurs as well. More later! Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4189	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Going out of business sale

hey,gang-due to some of life's incredibly bad reverses, i am going to sell off my train collection.the hell with e-bay-people who know what they want and respect it are more important to me.Restored Circus Set?SF blue & yellow freight set?These and about 300 items of American Flyer are looking for a good home.I don't have a list, there's so much and my heart is broken over this whole mess-send me your needs,maybe we can work something out-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4190	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Re: 4 different s-gauge list

Bill Lane started the sfinescale list because he was concerned that scalers who weren't into P64 might be turned off by it. I think we should leave it to Bill to decide what he wants to do with the list. I for one have signed for S-Scale so now I'm on four lists. cheers busy-boy wrote: > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > > Lysdexics, UNTIE! > > cz > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Enter ONElist�s WEEKLY DRAWING for $100! > http://www.onelist.com > By joining the FRIENDS & FAMILY PROGRAM. See homepage for details. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4191	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Alex Shear

Apparently Alex Shear hasn't attempted to befriend train collectors. Sounds like a snob. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4192	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Toy trains

Paul Schneider wrote: It's hard to say more than Chris Burger's insightful comment, "They're all toy trains!" This dawned on me recently when I hesitated to include some AF cars with the scale cars on my wall display. Scale, proto64, hi-rail--to anyone who's not a model railroader, they're just toys. And they're right. Paul, with due respect, I think you missed part of the point. It doesn't matter whether or not you are a model railroader.....they're STILL toy trains! And anybody who wastes time arguing about hi-rail, scale, proto64, et cetera, might just be taking things a little too seriously.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4193	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: Separate Lists discussion

Paul Schneider and list members: Paul raises some good points here: > As for a separate list: This scale is small enough > with sub-dividing it and plastering "Members Only!" at > every gate. I started off as a Flyer enthusiast, moved > easily into hi-rail when I learned that S-Helper and > others had rejuvinated the hobby and am now settling > into S scale. Personally, I find the Flyer and hi-rail > posts to S-Trains fascinating for the most part; I, > for one, would miss them. I'd like to add a couple more thoughts: I'm like Paul in many respects, I'm starting out as a Flyer enthusiast but I recognize within myself that I may take the same path through hi-rail to scale in my future, just as he has. But I disagree that a separate list for Scale concerns sub-divides the hobby and it's participants. It's really easy to subscribe to both lists! I have a filter set in my email software to drop the S-Trains list into one folder and other train-related lists into different folders. When I'm in the mood to read about Flyer, I'll read the S-Trains digests. The next evening I may be more in the mood for Scale, so I'll catch up on the Scale digests. I kind of like sticking to one subject at a time, even if I read everything in the same evening. Separating Scale from Flyer actually can do you a favor by giving you an easy option to focus on your interests of the moment. Take a little time to figure out how filters can help you in your email software...or update to newer software if your current version doesn't offer filters. And don't forget, it's not like it costs you additional dollars to subscribe to another email list! Points to ponder... -=[ Brian ]=-

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4194	From: Richard	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: My fair Laddy!!

Regarding Brian's observations: By George I think he's got it!!! Such a simple yet beautifully succint appreciation of the real value of what this has all been about. To-may-to...To-mah-to Po-tay-to...Po-tah-to.......yadada..yadada....everyone a gem!! just playing on the ol' computer >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4195	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/25/1999
Subject: banjo signal

John Marganski & others... You mentioned the MTH banjo signal might work better with a modern transformer and that's intrigued me. I'm using a 16B and I'm noticing my 283 and 290 don't like to share very well. (I love to see two trains on one track with RFG's #1202 track trip regulating the dance!) What "modern" transformers to you guys like? Any suggestions? (Not interested in DC at this time..) (hmmm...but could be convinced...maybe...!) -=[ Brian ]=-

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4196	From: JamesIngram@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Wanted: Web Location of Busy AF Catalog Layout Pictures

Would anybody happen to know, "off the top of their heads", of anyplace on the web where I could find copies of those old "busy" American Flyer catalog pictures of layouts or paintings depicting railroad scenes, where the picture shows about two or three or four, distinctly American Flyer-looking trains crossing over each other, and "going every which way", to create a very busy and impressive scene. Purpose: I am attempting to find such a picture to use as a background for a publicity sign I am trying to make for a club. ((Please note I am looking for photos of BUSY layout scenes, not photos of individual pieces of equipment.)) THANKS in advance. - Jim Ingram . <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> <><> James R. Ingram, 570-322-0988, JamesIngram@... <><> 1738 E. Third St, #357 <><> Williamsport PA 17701-3868 <><> Susquehanna S Scalers: http://www.track2.com/sss <><> Macintosh PowerBook 5300c, Macintosh OS 8.1, Epson Stylus 800 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4197	From: rgajnak@tellabs.com	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: My Kingdom for a List!

I just did a comparison of the S-Trains & S-Scale lists. (Boy, sounds like I need a hobby, perhaps model railroading?) Anyway, as of this morning, S-trains has 407 members, and S-Scale has 37 members. 35 folks on S-Scale are also on S-Trains (myself included.) Doubtless, the S-Scale list will grow as more folks recover from the convention, but if the ratio stays roughly the same, one has to ask: Why bother with separate lists? Just something to chew on this fine, feathered Monday. Laters, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4198	From: Andy McBride	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: You heard it here first

>From: Kempfam@... > >E-mail address to The Big L is Lionelmi@.... They are pretty good at >responding. Trouble is they are pretty closed-mouthed. >Ron Kemp Yes, Lionel has been very closed mouth recently and for good reason. They will officially announce today that Dick Maddux, formally of Bachman Industries, will be taking the helm as their new president. I've met Dick and I've got a great deal of respect for him. Thanks to Dick Bachman has really reinvented itself and produced many award winning models. Certainly a far cry from what they were producing only 15 years ago. I have no idea what effect this may have on AFL. My heart wants to see a complete new Flyer line but the logical side of me questions if that's a good business move or not. Bachman's recent successful entry into the O-gague narrow gauge market certainly shows Dick isn't afraid of experimenting with a niche market. What this does mean is now is the time to let the folks know at Lionel what we want. Keeping the S-Faith, Andy McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4199	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: WHAT CONVENTION

Well, I for one of about 400 NASG members attended the convention. It will take about a week to get caught up here but I hope to get some thoughts out to you unless others post the action. I have some pictures but it will take time to get them to Paul for posting. The convention went very well and S was well represented. As secretary you will see the meeting minutes in the October Dispatch so join the NASG if you aren't a member. We want to grow the hobby, the NASG and support our manufacturers and dealers. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4200	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Thanks from the PPSSW for the Participants of the Lake Special 99

The members of the Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop would like to thank all of the participants of the Lake Special 99 NASG National Convention in St. Paul this past week. The friendliness and "esprit de corps" amongst all was tremendous. I finally put "faces" to a lot of names that I've come to know because of the "onelist" lists. There were some "shortcomings" to the convention (like finding out the hotel restaurant would be closed three weeks ago!) which we in the PPSSW worked very hard to overcome as best we could. I am very thankful that nearly everyone looked past these issues for the positives. "S GUAGE MODEL RAILROADERS ARE THE BEST!" Now that the convention is over, I would like to let everyone know that convention car sales have NOT been terminated. Unfortunately, the Soo Line Potato Reefer PRS kits have sold out. Both of the SHS M&StL PS-2 hoppers are still available, however, with two numbers each. They are $39.95 each with $5.00 shipping per order. Please make checks out to "Lake Special 99" and mail to: Lake Special 99 6611 Countryside Drive Eden Prairie, MN 55346 Walt Jopke Convention Registrar

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4201	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Re: You heard it here first

WELL!!! Interesting because my "informers" mentioned that the one "big Hitter" who was bidding strongly for the AF line was Bachmann. (Which, at the time seemed disappointing to me, but I digress) MAYBE this is a real opportune time. After all, in the O market they're up against some really big guns. Now in the S market, much as I admire the AM and SHS contributions, I don't believe they have the "big resources" behind them that L has (or had?). If L wanted to put out some complete S trainsets, they could do so in short order. Hmmm. S life may become interesting. S' David "rose-colored glasses" D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4202	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Lionel e-mail address

There was a request recently for Lionels e-mail address. Here it is: "talktous" <talktous@... I would encourage all the AF people out there to just let them know what you think of their decision to not make any American Flyer this year. When they don't hear from anyone IT ONLY COMFIRMS TO THEM THAT THERE IS NO DEMAND FOR AMERICAN FLYER. We must not leave that impression with them Wayne

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4203	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: [Fwd: American Flyer]

Thought the answer I received from Lionel would interest some of the Flyer people out there.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4204	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Reply from Lionel/TalktoUs

Since the attachment didn't take I will relay ver-batum what they said: "THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS. WE DO NOT HAVE ANY INFORMATION REGARDING THE AMERICAN FLYER LINE OR UPCOMING PRODUCTS. WE WILL SEND A COPY OF YOUR E-MAIL TO THE APPROPRIATE DEPARTMENT HERE AT LIONEL" only they didn't say what department they were forwarding it to.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4205	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: faller motor

I noticed on the back cover of my latest flyer from Terminal Hobby Shop that they have a 18 RPM 16 VAC motor for the Faller walking beam oil pump. Is anyone familiar with this motor? Is it a true AC motor or just a can w. a diode? It seems this would be a very useful motor for animated accessories of various types. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4206	From: Bill Porter	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Re: faller motor

Hi Tom and all, I can answer some of the questions since I had two of these pumps on my old layout for several years. The pumps were very reliable - not one failure over several years. When the scenery is ready for them, I'll be adding them back onto my S layout - in the background since they are a little undersized. We have several circus rides at the Palm Beach Model Railroad Club that are powered with these motors. The motors work very well, but, they can be a little fast for the rides. That has caused some failures in the plastic mechanisms. It would all be fixed if the linkages were set to reduce the speed of the rides a bit. I cannot tell you about the caniness nor dioditude without searching for a few hours in the stored stuff under the benchwork. Later, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Jarcho <jarcho@...> To: S-trains@onelist.com <S-trains@onelist.com> Date: Monday, July 26, 1999 7:53 PM Subject: [S-Trains] faller motor >From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > >I noticed on the back cover of my latest flyer from Terminal Hobby Shop >that they have a 18 RPM 16 VAC motor for the Faller walking beam oil pump. >Is anyone familiar with this motor? Is it a true AC motor or just a can w. >a diode? It seems this would be a very useful motor for animated >accessories of various types. Tom Jarcho > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4207	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Fwd: AF

In a message dated 7/26/99 1:51:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, talktous@... writes: << Thank you for taking the time to inquire about the American Flyer line. Unfortunately we do not have any information on upcoming products. We will pass your e-mail on to the appropriate people here at LIONEL. >> Here's my reply from Lionel Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4208	From: Ken Zieska	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Minnesota Heartland Report

Well life has returned to a more normal pace on the Minnesota Heartland now that the Convention crowd has gone. Many a late night while I was struggling with a wiring problem or pressed for time, I thought that as soon as the Convention was over that I would stay out of the layout room for weeks. Well, fact is that I miss all the great friends and I find that working in the layout room reminds me of all the fine conversations, shared laughs and that I would like to have had the convention go on for another week. The heat broke today and it was great for a picnic, yesterday it was dang hot yet, the group was great about it and we made due. The train is running by, but there was no mad dash for the hill to watch it.... We received rave reviews for the clinics, thanks to a terrific group of presenters. The auction went well, Jamie gets more cantankerous each year but in a lovable sort of way. There were great late night discussions and outstanding models in the contest. Models that were clearly better than most of the entries in the NMRA contest. As many of you know the PPSSW is a very small group so everyone was spread thin. Even with that, we are all still friends and share the warm feeling of pride in the convention and the same opinion about doing another. I called Dave Jasper tonight to tie up loose ends and found him also in the layout room so if I am crazy, I am in good company. If you did not make the convention and wish to order convention cars, I am mailing them out this week and would be happy to mail some to anyone who wants them. They are 39.95 each and 5.00 dollars shipping per order (not car). Send your order to Ken Zieska 11810 52nd Ave. N. Plymouth, Mn. 55442-1820 Enough for now, I am sure better correspondents will fill you all in soon. Ken Zieska

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4209	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Re: You heard it here first

I have understood that up until 15 years ago Bachmann was the head and the company in Hong Kong was the tail. Then 15 years ago the company in Hong Kong became the head and Bachmann was the tale. In other words Hong Kong started calling the shots and Bachmann said Yes Sir. It has been the Hong Kong company that caused the improvements in the line not Bachmann. Larry Andy McBride wrote:

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4210	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/26/1999
Subject: Racing Champions Mint Editions

Hi All, I've compiled a list of Racing Champions Motor Trend Mint Editions upcoming and recent releases and I thought I'd share them with you so you can keep your eyes peeled for the autos you want for your layout. Remember RC has cut the production to 9,999 so grab 'em while you can. -- Keith Thompson in Seattle Upcoming: Issue # Car Color 244 1965 Ford Galaxie Teal 243 1949 Cadillac Coupe DeVille 2-tone Blue 242 1955 Chevy Bel Air Shadow Grey/Coral 241 1958 Ford Edsel Hardtop 2-tone Black/Red 240 1969 Dodge Charger Red 239 1956 Chevy Nomad India Ivory/Dusk Plum 238 1967 Chevy Chevelle SS Red w/Black Top 237 1937 Cord Phaeton Sedan 812 Yellow w/Black Top Released: Issue # Car Color 236 1969 Dodge Charger 500 Copper w/Flat Black Top 235 1969 Chevy Corvette Blue 234 1971 Plymouth GTX Plum Crazy 233 1970 Dodge Super Bee Sublime 232 1965 Ford F-100 Pickup 2-tone Teal/White 231 1957 Buick Century Black 230 1966 Pontiac GTO Fontaine Blue 229 1977 AMC Pacer Red 228 1937 Cord Phaeton Sedan 812 Blue 227 1971 Plymouth GTX Yellow 226 1950 Oldsmobile 88 Club Sedan Dark Red 225 1968 Pontiac Firebird Dark Green 224 1970 Chevy Chevelle Desert Sand Metallic 223 1957 Plymouth Fury Teal 222 1957 Plymouth Fury Cream

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4211	From: rgajnak@tellabs.com	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Re: You heard it here first

New president at Lionel? Boy, oh boy, oh boy! I guess that means CTT gets to run yet another installment of it's epic series "Meet the New Boss at Lionel." Makes one wish for Kughn to still be running the company. Seriously, with another new man at the helm, under the best of circumstances, it will probably take 2-3 years to get a new/improved Flyer line going. If...there's any inclination to do so. Don't forget, the old Circle L is getting trounced by that uppity MTH. That's probably where the resources will go. Laters, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4212	From: JoeAWood@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: L-word

Maybe we should stop asking any questions about American Flyer and just maybe L would think that there is no interest and would sell the line to a good company that would bring it back like it should be.Lets face it L bought AF because it was their biggest competition at one time and they are afraid that would happen again. besides the only trains I have ever seen running on three rails are New York City subway trains and i always thought they were ugly! JOE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4213	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Re: You heard it here first

In a message dated 7/27/99 8:02:24 AM, rgajnak@... writes: << I guess that means CTT gets to run yet another installment of it's epic series "Meet the New Boss at Lionel." >> Not to mention the in depth interview with the men's room attendent for the new boss at Lionel. :)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4214	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: EMAIL from LIONEL

Ok, Here was my reply from LIONEL. It is somewhat different... talktous wrote: > American Flyer continues to be a LIONEL product line. There is a new > Christmas boxcar that appears in our latest catalog.Unfortunately we > do not have any further information on any upcoming products.Thank > you. LIONEL/TalktoUs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4215	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Simulated rivets

I'm making a girder bridge and I want to add struts with simulated rivet heads along the length of the struts. Does anybody have an easy, elegant way of simulating a line of rivet heads? I know that there are commercially produced rivet strips or decals, but I want to do this now and not wait several weeks for mail order. My local Hobby shop had no idea what I was talking about when I asked about this. The clerk at Des Plaines Hobbies even said, "I never thought about doing that." Which leads me to another question. Does anybody know of a source of American Flyer parts in the Chicago/Northern Illinois/Southern Wisconsin/Northern Indiana area where you can walk in, buy 'em and take them home? Waiting for mail order parts is driving me crazy.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4216	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: [Fwd: American Flyer from Lionel talktous]

-- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4217	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: simulating rivets

Scott holm wants to know how to simulate rivets.My way is not fast, but with practice will give really convincing results:find a bit of wire or stretch plastic sprue(the runner for model parts) slightly smaller in diameter than the rivet head desired. Mix up a batch of overnight cure epoxy, then dip the wire into the goo and carefully apply one drop at a time in the pattern that fits your needs. When done, suspend the part "rivet" side down for the cure time. This allows a -the epoxy to sag a little, giving it the rivet head look.I've used this tecnique on tank and AFV conversions and scratch builts,and gotten mant compliments on it's appearance.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4218	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Lionel Reply

I got my reply from Lionel today. It was exactly the same as the others. They obviously use an electronic form letter. Still, one would hope they have a counter that sees how many letters they receive on S gauge. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4219	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Re: Simulated rivets

NWSL makes a rivit machine. Larry Scott Holm wrote: > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4220	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Re: Making a Docksider

Has anyone tried converting an Atlantic or some other engine into a Docksider [0-4-0]? I had the B&O Docksider in mind. Would it work, or would it just look goofy? Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4221	From: Craig Stair	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: FW: AF

My response from Lionel. Craig Stair -----Original Message----- From: talktous [mailto:talktous@...] Sent: Monday, July 26, 1999 3:57 PM To: cstair@... Subject: AF Thank you for the comments and your recommendtions. We will send them along to the appropriate department. LIONEL/TalktoUs

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4222	From: Don Abrams	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: No Flyer

I e-mailed 'L' too and bemoaned the lack of American Flyer trains. I said Christmas boxcars don't count -- something (anything!!!) prototypical or at least Gilbert-like please! Don P.S. No reply yet, but I'm sure it'll be the same canned response.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4223	From: AC4400W@aol.com	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Jack Frost PS-2's being shipped

Hello everyone, For those of you who ordered the Jack Frost PS-2's from R.S.S.V.P., Jerry has received them from SHS and is in the process of shipping them. If anyone has any questions regarding availability or hasn't received their order, Jerry can be reached by email at: rssvpmodels@... These are really colorful cars!! Wayne Hills

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4224	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Slow speed motor

A week or so ago someone asked about a 4 rpm motor. Tonight I was looking at my Micro-Mark (1-800-225-1066) catalog and see that they offer an 2" dia. x 1" long 110v AC gearmotor that turns at 2.5 rpm, with a 7mm dia. x 5/8" long shaft, for $7.95 plus shipping. There are two mounting flanges on the motor, and it comes with a cord, plug, and inline switch. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4225	From: Richard	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: from the observation car...

New Blood at Lionel...well sounds good...they certainly need it....from my observations, sitting in the Scale bleachers as it were...Lionel, to put it simply is a dog...no a mongrel...someone took an ol goat and made it worse. Before you start firing off the rockets..have a think...here is a company that reminds me of the student...who despite lots of talent and ability , just puts in enough to get by, they could have been an A student, but couldn't be bothered...thats all well and good..if it only affected themself no one would care....they then realise that somehow they have forgotten how to do a good job, forgotten that gung-ho forward on type of thinking and began to rely more and more on nostalgia to carry it accross the line. Eventually less and less people came to to the fading star. Why ...simple they had seen the same show tooo many times...and the performance was getting worse. Lionel then decides , as it can't do it itself anymore and the demon Flyer lurks, lets hijack it and make redundant the competition. Oh we'll skin it for any worth thats left then pack it away...they then drag it out every time some one kicks up a fuss, put on a bit of make-up, dress it up as something new, and those who know no better, or who desperately cling to the notion that the ol star is still the same , pay for a second rate performance at mega star prices. I can pass no judgement on the new goings on at Lionel,maybe the new breath of fresh air may revive the aging prima donna. If the gentleman from Bachmann was is any way responsible or participant in the rebirth of Bachmann , then even I may wait with baited breath for something that a scaler might utilise. What could they do....they could re-invent themselves....geez Bachmann did, from a laughing stock to ooooh looky looky ...nice stuff and often in ground breaking markets. In years gone by train-sets had tinplate tracks, now they don't...they had approximations of Railroad equipment ...now they don't...they had the aroma of the local rail yard to hypnotise the potential family purchase..now they don't. Lionel could recreate the market for its Flyer brand...but wait ..it would be different, the traditionalists should look away now. They need to make reasonably accurate models ( by this they need to be dimensionally correct...just leave off the small bits)...save some painting..inject them in the end colour and put decals on ...sure they can still ( and probably should ) have lights and sound...current technolgy can do this quite cheaply ...if we don't need an exact replication of a Nathan 3 chimer... aagh ..the elusive HO killing "S" gauge ( but scale influenced) train-set at discount chain store prices!!! They have the clout, they have the heritage, they have ( but don't efficiently use) their marketing ...... Can't be done....don't ever ask to play on my team. Only time will tell whether we still have the same ol mongrel. Personally I fervently hope for the better. What a fantastic shot in the arm it could be...otherwise lets put everyone out of their misery, and put them to rest, hold a service and get on with reality. >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4226	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: Responses to sale

Thank all of you who've been asking about my trains. I'm swamped.The lady and I have to go out of state for a funeral .If you could wait with inquiries til Saturday,I'd appreciate it.I never had 100+ emails in a day!!-thanks-john

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4227	From: Brian Johns	Date: 7/27/1999
Subject: MTH service dept. response RE banjo signal

Hi all-- Thought I would share the response I got from MTH's service dept about my banjo signal. I'm very happy with MTH's quick response and simple instructions. (Gosh I wish they would make S stuff!) ---------- >From: "MTH Service" <service@...> >To: "Brian Johns" <bljohns@...> >Subject: Re: #140 Banjo Signal question... >Date: Mon, Jul 26, 1999, 5:08 PM > Dear Brian, > > Good afternoon and thanks for your support of MTH Electric Trains, Inc. > > I received your recent e-mail regarding the problems you are experincing > with your #140 Banjo Signal. I am sorry to hear that it is giving you > problems. Try removing the cylinder. Once you have it removed, lubricate the > axle pin with graphite (pencil lead). If the problems persist after trying > this, please let me know. I will give your return instruction at that point, > if necessary. > > If you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to > contact me. Thanks again Brian for your support of MTH. > > Sincerely, > Kristi Stevens > MTH Service Department ---------- Kristi-- I removed the cylinder this evening and "drew" on the axle pin with a pencil. (Gotta get some real graphite some day!) It's cured! The swinging stop sign swings much faster than before and though it's still a teensy slow on the uptake, it is 300% better than before and I'm VERY satisfied with it's operation now. I've had a train running over the signal's trip now for around 20 minutes and the signal continues to work well. Thanks for your prompt response. You've turned this into a positive situation and now I'm very pleased with my first MTH purchase. -=[ Brian ]=-

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4228	From: Keith Thompson	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Re: NWSL wheel availability

Alex Binkley wrote: > > So what's the best way of obtaining these wheels -- directly from NWSL, through > DPH or BTS or Walthers. > cheers Fred at NWSL says direct is the best way to order. In case you don't have the info on NWSL, here it is: Telephone: 206-932-1087 FAX: 206-935-7106 Postal Address: P.O. Box 423 Seattle WA 98111 USA Email: info@... Part numbers and the descriptions: NWSL #2534-6 -- S scale Proto:S 40" code 88 nickel-plated wheelsets with precision Delrin� axle gears and brass bearings. NWSL #2535-6 -- S scale 40" code 110 nickel-plated wheelsets with precision Delrin� axle gears and brass bearings. Price of either kit is $29.95 for four wheelsets to do one locomotive. Availability: Come 'n' get 'em! -- Keith Thompson in Seattle

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4229	From: Anormal1@aol.com	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: A M 4-6-2 So. Crescent

Hi Guys, Anyone interested in a D.C. Scale Mint in the box, never out of the box,A.M. Souther Crescent S-scale, has all paper work, etcAlso can anyone give me the value of this fine item? Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4230	From: rgajnak@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Re: From the observation car

Amen, Richard. Richard Maddox has his work cut out for himself. A reinvigorated Flyer woud be great for both the Flyer Enthusiasts and us Scale Guys, regardless of its adaptability to scale. However, Circle L's primary market is "O", and Mr. Maddox will have to deal with the hemmoraging there first. Even the blurb on CTT's web page says: "Among Maddox's challenges at Lionel will be intense competition from MTH Electric Trains, a rejuvenated competitor in K-Line, and the need to resolve customer dissatisfaction over delayed products such as the long-awaited Odyssey motor." Notice no mention of competition from American Models and S Helper Service. Right now, it appears the only thing keeping Lionel alive is the electronics. Railsounds II is probably the best sound system on the market, plus their TMCC System appears to have a loyal following. Unfortunately, the trains are mediocre. There's always this rush of optimism when there's a managment change at Lionel. But, Lionel's problems are systemic, and don't forget, Wellspring Associates still owns the place. Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4231	From: Bill Clark	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Thanks to the PPSSW for the Lake Special 99

The Pines and Prairies S Scale Workshop did a great job putting together a fine convention! I'm from the Bristol club which did the convention last year. The Bristol club is much larger than the PPSSW, and we found that hosting a convention was a mammoth effort for us; the pressure on the much smaller PPSSW must have been incredible! But they did a great job, and stayed helpful, pleasant, and enthusiastic through the whole thing! Great job! I enjoyed the relationship with the NMRA convention: a mile away, shuttle busses, but our own hotel and show. Nice balance. I was over at the National Train Show twice asking vendors about products for S, and got lots of positive responses. Seems a lot of us were doing the same thing. Waiting for the train back, I overheard a group of HO modelers discussing S, that it seems to be an ideal size, and there are some great products available. Neat! Mike, Helen and I did our traveling DCC clinic, and had good fun with that. Don and Mike loaned us some of the new 29" radius SHS S-trax to run our demos on, so we had a bigger layout at the clinic than I have at my house! The track looks really great, and several people were very interested to see the wider radius. Also, I got to run my AF K5 Pacific with an MTH smoke unit (with blower!) which smokes up a room faster than you would believe! We had a lot of fun presenting and demonstrating DCC, and the folks that came to the clinic were great, with lots of interest and good questions. Kelvin had an excellent clinic on modeling in the UK, which I enjoyed immensely. He is a REALLY good modeler. The train show was excellent, even though a couple of the regulars were over at the National show. I easily spent my budget! So thanks again to the PPSSW, you did a wonderful job! Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4232	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Selection Information]

I didn't realize that Micro-Mark had their catalog on line, but see the web address Chuck gives for the slow speed motor I mentioned last night. Check Micro-Mark out - they have an amazing variety of tools and supplies for the hobbyist. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4233	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: bet you don't have.....

.....a label plate for the back panel of a 785 coal loader. But if you do, or if you know where I can find one, I'd sure appreciate it for mine. It's suffering from an identity crisis without one. Thank you.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4234	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Slow Speed Motor

My appologies. I didn't know that S-Trains would delete Chuck Smith's message to me which gave the Micro-Mark web address for the motor. It is: http://www.dxshop.com/_shop/shop-indy.mhtml?shop=micromark&cart=933168579-14221.db&tstamp=933168579&code=82090&category=&searchstring=motor Regards, Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4235	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Little People & Ballast

Hello evryone, I needed to know where one can purchase little people for my AF setup...I have been shopping they are pretty steep as well as track ballast...any help would be great..I am looking for painted people..Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4236	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Lionel CEO

In a message dated 7/28/99 6:26:44 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << Don't forget, the old Circle L is getting trounced by that uppity MTH. That's probably where the resources will go. >> You must have missed this line in the press release!!!!!!! : "Lionel L.L.C. is today's market leading toy train manufacturer and will be celebrating its centennial anniversary in the year 2000. Lionel has been at the center of every major innovation in toy train manufacturing since its inception."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4237	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Response to Chris Zizzo (was NWSF wheels, Proto 64, Bill Wade, and

> > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 19:01:45 -0400 > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > Subject: NWSF wheels, Proto 64, Bill Wade, and the whole thing. > (SNIP) > > Bill, your magazine is dead. It doesn't matter why. Dead is dead. It was > on life support and you pulled the plug. Now it's gone. I am intrigued by > a comment you made: I don't have the letter in front of me, so I paraphrase: > 'We could have printed the hi-rail and AF articles, but that wasn't what we > were trying to do here.' That's kind of like saying "My mother needed a > kidney, but the only compatible one was from a black man, so we decided > she'd be better off dead." > > If you had taken in some Hi-rail articles, they would not have polluted your > magazine, they would have saved it so you could continue publishing and > provide a scale and Proto 64 forum. Stop kidding us and yourself and face > the real reality. You were oversaturating an infinitesimal market that does > not have the numbers to support a regular magazine publication. I, and many > other hi-railers like me, subscribed A.) to support your effort, B.) to get > as much S gauge support into our lives as possible. Do you really think you > would have lasted this long without the support of the S-Hi-Rail and AF > community? > > I'm sorry to see you fold up. I thought there was always good stuff I could > apply to my layout. Remember, Hi-Railers may run toy and semi-scale trains > on rails that are a little too tall, but we scenic our pikes in scale. Oh, > but you can't accept our articles, because our wheels are too fat . . . or > too thin. What's next, scale cleansing? > > Of course, it is entirely possible that you have other reasons for folding > your tents. Running a magazine like this long enough I am sure can burn you > out. My comments, however, are based on the reasons you offered, and > frankly, those reasons are counter-productive to the hobby, to the scale and > to the reality of our situation, all bobbing along on the waves in this one > boat, as we are. > > I hope that after a well deserved respite and some re-thinking, particularly > of the big picture, you will once again emerge as a leader and a publisher > in this scale. I look forward to that day. > > Cordially, > Chris Zizzo Sorry for the delay in responding, but we just returned from promoting S Scale and our products at the NMRA National Train Show where over 19,000 folks came by the booths. I can only hope that some of the comments made above were just a weak attempt at sarcastic humor. I am not amused. We considered changing the focus of the magazine from pure scale to a mixture of scale and toy trains; however, it did not seem right in our opinion. A survey taken early on, and continuing comments from the readers, showed that pure scale was the desire of the BULK of the readership. As for the paraphrase of my letter above, it is not correct. The letter read, "We could have accepted the Flyer articles we were offered, and that would have also increased circulation, but that was not the intent of this publication." The key word in that sentence is Flyer. Articles submitted from hi-rail modelers were run when the articles were applicable to scale modeling or showed good modeling techniques. We never received an article that featured a hi-rail layout, well done with scenery or otherwise; the one with scenery would have been printed if we had. Perhaps Mr Zizzo is still writing it! Please do not take my comments here as any sort of anti-Flyer. If you run AF and enjoy it, more power to ya - have fun with your trains! Flyer is not something that I like, so I don't spend my time and money on it. Don H. was, and is, doing a fine job with the AF stuff, so there was no need for us to get involved with our magazine. It is a sad day when the truth is considered ".... counter-productive to the hobby, to the scale and to the reality of our situation... ." We faced "the real reality" and terminated a money-losing business entity. In the big scheme of things, our situation is that we are a minority scale supported, for the most part, by small cottage industry suppliers who do it more for fun than profit. There are over 30 manufacturers of S and Sn3 products that never advertised with the S/Sn3 Modeling Guide. Perhaps if 50% of them had, we would still be publishing. Perhaps if we had accepted charity and not paid for the articles and photos we printed, we would not have lost as much money as we did. There are lots of great hindsight solutions. If one of you have a better plan, we will happily sell you the magazine name for $1.00 as long as you buy all the back issues we have on hand. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4238	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Re: Little People & Ballast

Methinks that American Models and Scenery Unlimited have 1/64th folks. Probably delaers such as DesPlaines, Bills and Doug Peck should as well. Supposedly there are Airfix 1/72 military type which cam be altered for use in S but I haven't found any yet. cheers Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA wrote: > From: "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> > > Hello evryone, > > I needed to know where one can purchase little people for my AF > setup...I have been shopping they are pretty steep as well as track > ballast...any help would be great..I am looking for painted people..Jeff > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? > http://www.onelist.com > Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4239	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Re: New Lionel CEO

Wow, forget the hip waders, you'll need a wet suit to wallow through *that* press release! <G> S' David

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4240	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Convention Photos

I got my first group of Convention Photos , Thanks Glenn Ritter http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/nasg99/conv_99.html Anybody got anymore? -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4241	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/28/1999
Subject: Docksider, rivets

Those tall drivers would need to be replaced, sounds like a 'project' 2 me... but do-able. In HO (sorry) I have used a paper overlay, using a handmade rivet tool consisisting of a 1/4" dowel maybe 4" long, notch the end, and using an old watch wheel for a 'punch'. Line guidelines on the paper using straightedge and roll the tool, with a soft cardboard or artists paper backup. The paper is then glued to the item needing rivets with the glue on backside filling the small depressions making them durable. Might work with a larger gear or whatever, but.... another Project! Did the entire shell of an oil tender using this process and I am still amazed at how good it looks after 25 yrs. Anyhow- good luck! L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4242	From: rgajnak@tellabs.com	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: Re; New Lionel CEO

Message: 7 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 15:53:50 EDT From: PortLines@... Subject: Re: New Lionel CEO In a message dated 7/28/99 15:53:50M, Portlines writes: >>You must have missed this line in the press release!!!!!!! : "Lionel L.L.C. is today's market leading toy train manufacturer and will be celebrating its centennial anniversary in the year 2000. Lionel has been at the center of every major innovation in toy train manufacturing since its inception."<< I saw it, and agree with most of it. However, I don't believe that Lionel is the leader anymore... exept for model train electronics. I gave up on Lionel "O" about 8 - 9 years ago, and gave up on their version of Flyer 3 years ago. When I buy "O", I buy MTH, Atlas O and Weaver. When I buy S HiRail or Flyer compatible, I buy American Models and S Helper Service. If Lionel/Flyer wants my business back, they're gonna have to fight to get me back. Consider this: You are an employee in a major manufacturer. You get new management every couple of years. New ideas, new ways of doing things(again), change of focus. Some people leave while others entrench themselves. It gets demoralizing after a while. Plus we get to read another "Rosie Scenario" in a CTT exclusive interview. I wish Mr. Maddox well in his efforts, his task is indeed daunting. If Mr. Maddox CAN turn Lionel around, it will be good for the hobby in general. Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4243	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: GREAT NASG CONVENTION

Here are my observations to go with the pictures Paul Yorke has put on the web. As NASG secretary I owe the S gauge crowd a convention report. So here goes. Yes, I took an hour and a half of minutes at the membership meeting on Sunday. I have started to enter them for executive committee review and then they go to the NASG Dispatch for the October issue. The Convention: I lost 8 hours on Friday in the airport due to storms in the Chicago area which delayed all air traffic thus I didn't get to St. Paul until midnight thus missing the Board of Trustees meeting. Saturday was great. Started at 9:00AM Saturday in the NASG dealer room meeting manufacturers and seeing our beautiful trains for sale. Most S trains for sale were at the NASG convention hotel. We had a NASG table at our hotel as well as at the NMRA National Train Show convention center. After lunch at the NASG hotel, I took the shuttle to the NMRA convention center. Three levels of all gauge manufacturers and layouts was quite impressive. It took about 3 hours to observe everthing and meet our S suppliers. I could have spent a few more hours but I wanted to buy my wife a non train gift. At 6:00PM we gathered for the NASG banquet with 120 S gaugers and wives. So many door prizes had been donated that just about every one there got a prize. I didn't take note of all the awards but they will be in upcoming Dispatches. After a guest speaker we adjourned to the auction. Jamie Bothwell MCs the auction and does a very entertaining job at it. Most items had a minimum bid and some did not sell because of high minimums. I recall the NASG at 10% made over $130 so the gross must have been over $1300. The NASG membership meeting was held on Sunday morning and opened at 9:06AM and closed at 10:15AM with an additional off the record discussion about conventions in general. Those minutes will be in the October NASG Dispatch. After the meeting we went to Ken Zieska's for a delicious assortment of S gauge Soo Line model trains, live Canadian National trains right through his back yard and food. This was a great time of fellowship and a chance to meet many E-Mail friends. I hope you can join us next year in San Jose if you know the way. Staying on NASG track, NASG Secretary, Glenn Ritter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4244	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: The Conventions in St. Paul

Well, convention week in St. Paul is over, and I'm back home resting up (on what's left of my vacation, and playing with a few new toys :-) It was a great week. Having both conventions overlapped and in the same locale, meant that I could participate in the activities of both the NMRA Convention and the NASG Convention. And S was very much alive and well in both conventions... Some of the highlights for me were: Excellent clinics on: --------------------------- - Making your layout come alive with Animation (Larry Graf) - Signalling on the Prototype (Bill Ataras) - a variety of DCC clinics - UK and other European modeling (Kelvin White) - Painting Brass locos (Kathy Newall) - Layout Photography (Tommy Holt) - Modular Signalling System (Rich Weyand) - the Southern New England Railway (Marty McGuirk) Auctions, Marketplaces, etc with lots of S: --------------------------------------------- - NMRA's silent auction had a large amount of S (some of which is now at my place) - NASG's S Marketplace was full of S -- established manufacturers, new manufacturers, dealers, and others. - National Train Show -- with a significant amount of S product available *** by this point I had easily overspent by budget, and didn't make it to the NASG Convention auction *** There are a number of new and/or rejuvenated manufacturers entering the S market. The only negative item I heard re: S products during the week was the lack of S parts dealers at the show. On the Prototype ------------------ A little local railfanning while in St. Paul, and the ride home on Amtrak... DCC in S --------- As always, it's a lot of fun to be part of clinics where you can run trains during the clinic. And interest in DCC continues to grow in all scales, including S. Based on other data I heard at the NMRA convention, DCC is one of the fastest growing segments of the market. During our clinics, I did worry about Bill Clark's Amer Flyer loco with the "Super Smoker" :-) I was a bit worried we might set off the sprinkler system. Or at the very least need to file an environmental impact statement! :-) Our thanks to Don & Mike at S-Helper Service for the loan of their new large radius track so we could set up a demonstration layout for the DCC clinics. It worked extremely well. Model contests -------------- The models in both the NMRA convention and the NASG convention model contests were excellent. I wish some of the S scale models had made it to the NMRA's contest to show off what is being done in S. NMRA Junior College Program --------------------------- This convention within a convention is targeted at the future of the hobby -- kids! They get to spend time in all the facets of the hobby from layout building to operations. This is the third year for this program, and interest continues to grow with more and more manufacturers supporting it, and more and more kids participating. And amazing the number of "big kids" volunteering to help out. Of course the kids got all the neat new toys to play with like Roco's new DCC-based joystick crane controller! Summary -------- As I noted earlier, I was amazed by the growing interest in S. And from conversations with manufacturers and dealers, they were seeing the significant interest as well. And a number of new S products (at least to me). All in all a great week. My biggest regret was missing the Sunday picnic, but I had a train to catch. Again my thanks to the PPSSW team for all of their hard work on the NASG convention. It was a great convention! And to those who developed the joint convention idea, my eternal gratitude. It made it possible for me to attend both conventions this year, and I think the cross-pollination did a lot to help grow the S segment of the hobby. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4245	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: Re: The Conventions in St. Paul

Wow Michael, these are terrific subjects. - Making your layout come alive with Animation (Larry Graf) - Signalling on the Prototype (Bill Ataras) - a variety of DCC clinics - UK and other European modeling (Kelvin White) - Painting Brass locos (Kathy Newall) - Layout Photography (Tommy Holt) - Modular Signalling System (Rich Weyand) - the Southern New England Railway (Marty McGuirk) Are there any articles or other material forthcoming about these subjects? Also, what is a Super Smoker? regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4246	From: Jarcho	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: crossing gate

I recently saw an interesting AF crossing gate and wonder if someone on the list can identify it for me and say what year it was produced. It was the size of a #600, had matte silver roadway and walkway, and no bell. No indication there ever was a bell. Also, there was a sort of crudely attached lamp socket in the house. Would this have been original, or added by a later owner? Thanks for your help, Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4247	From: David Dewey	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: Another eBay offering, ya gotta see this one!

Here's a Silver Bullet loco with a broken pilot (major broken) and it's right now at $100!! I had been lurking, thinking of parts for another Daylight, oh well...... Here's the URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=135677959 Sorry all, just couldn't leave this one alone. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4248	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: Jack Frost hoppers

Hi everyone, I received my Jack Frost hoppers from RSSVP Models in the mail today. They look GREAT , especially with the previous 2 Revere Sugar cars and the Jack Frost tanker. If you have not bought one from Jerry yet, I highly recommend them. For anyone who has one of the Lionel car racks to retro fit to an S gauge car and is looking for some reasonable but decent cars for a load I found some today at Toys R Us. They were on the wall with cheap toys, 25 cars in a box for $5.00. They are half way decent looking, perhaps a little small but that makes them look more proportional to the car. They have some gaudy decorations which are easily removed with Poly S paint remover which if done quickly and carefully does not remove the body paint. They say die cast metal on the box but most of the car is plastic and the metal must be a cheap alloy that is very light so this does not make the loaded car too heavy. Check 'em out. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4249	From: Scott Holm	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: Re: Auto carrier

What brand where the cars at Toy's R Us? I've got the Lionel auto carrier, now where can I get the repro AF flat cars and what issue of S-gaugian had the intructions on how to do this? Or is it as simple as cutting off about a third of each flat car and glueing them together? ----- Original Message ----- From: Alice S. Beachy <abeachy@...> To: <S-Trains@onelist.com> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 1999 10:27 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Jack Frost hoppers > From: "Alice S. Beachy" <abeachy@...> > > Hi everyone, > > I received my Jack Frost hoppers from RSSVP Models in the mail today. They look GREAT , especially with the previous 2 Revere Sugar cars and the Jack Frost tanker. If you have not bought one from Jerry yet, I highly recommend them. > > For anyone who has one of the Lionel car racks to retro fit to an S gauge car and is looking for some reasonable but decent cars for a load I found some today at Toys R Us. They were on the wall with cheap toys, 25 cars in a box for $5.00. They are half way decent looking, perhaps a little small but that makes them look more proportional to the car. They have some gaudy decorations which are easily removed with Poly S paint remover which if done quickly and carefully does not remove the body paint. They say die cast metal on the box but most of the car is plastic and the metal must be a cheap alloy that is very light so this does not make the loaded car too heavy. Check 'em out. > > Wayne Beachy > Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist users: YOU can win a $100 gift certificate to Amazon.com. > Check out the FRIENDS & FAMILY program to find out how. > For details, go to http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4250	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/29/1999
Subject: 4-6-2 SO .CRESCENT

Anyone intersted in a AM 4-6-2 sSo . Crescent Scale, D.C. Mint ,new in box low prod.# 080 $375.00+10.00 S&H Mike S,

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4251	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/30/1999
Subject: SILVER BULLET UPDATE

Hi Dave, I looked at that EBAY offering. It closed at $102.00. It looked like a repaint. It was the flatest,dullest, chrome I ever saw. I paid $85 for mine in original, running condition and it smoked. Well somebody needed it more than you. In my travels last week, I met S-gaugers from the South and mid-West who do not have access to shows. I tried to tie them in to good mail order dealers like Vanacores in CT, etc. There are a lot of people out there who need trains so bad they will pay top dollar for fair condition stuff. Stay on S-Train track. Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4252	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/30/1999
Subject: Re: CEO

<< >>You must have missed this line in the press release!!!!!!! : "Lionel L.L.C. is today's market leading toy train manufacturer and will be celebrating its centennial anniversary in the year 2000. Lionel has been at the center of every major innovation in toy train manufacturing since its inception."<< One Reply: I saw it, and agree with most of it. However, I don't believe that Lionel is the leader anymore... >> I wrote that original statement, and have had a couple of responses. I guess I should have added a followup comment to it at the time.........I was being facetious. I feel that is a very self-serving statement by Lionel, and overstates their own role, at least in the past 30 years or so! Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4253	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 7/30/1999
Subject: Re: SILVER BULLET UPDATE

Thanks Trains16, I sit corrected. Greenberg lists it as Good $65 and Excellent $200. Glenn Trains16@... wrote: > Glen the 354 was painted silver...... It was the 356 that was chrome. (S)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4254	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 7/30/1999
Subject: Making your layout come alive with Animation (Larry Graf)

"Making your layout come alive with Animation (Larry Graf)" was one of the clinics at the convention. Does anyone know how to get a hold of Larry Graf? I'd be interested in picking his brain for my layout. Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4255	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/30/1999
Subject: alex binkley/airfix figures

Airfik figures were availabel at the kaybee toy chain; i cannot say for certain if this is still true. however, the squadron shop (squadron.com) carries the full line, as well as revell/germany and several others.hmmmm-i had my dinosaur farm. anybody going to do plains indians raiding the k-line 7-11?-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4256	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 7/30/1999
Subject: People for your pike

Some one was asking about people. Where to get them and how much they cost. Here are some people photographed using my scanner. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/people/people.html If you gave pictures of other brands of people that you would like to share, please let me know. Paul Yorke American Flyer operator/Stereo Photographer S-Trains Mailing / http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains (Primary Email Yorke@... - Backup paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4257	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: Green A.F. Pullman

Would anyone have a green 650 or 651 shell they would sell? I have one with a broken chip out of one end. Thanks! Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4258	From: William H Trefts	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: American Flyer Electronic Whistle Control

Gentlemen, I have recently acquired an American Flyer Electronic Whistle Control, but the only information I have been able to find about it is how to wire and service it in the K-Line service manual. It has no catalog number that I can find, and I haven't spotted it in the Greenberg's Guide #ll. This is the control with the 110 volt lead, transformer, and rectifier tube inside and the lever on the case to operate it. Was there a number that I can use for reference? And of course, the ever persistent question, what is it's value? Reading about it, it is used with the engines that have a speaker in the tender, rather than the 314AW. (I hope to have a 314AW someday, but at the prices I'm seeing, it will be a while before I can bite the silver bullet and purchase one.) So another question comes to mind. What will happen if a diesel engine with speaker is on the track at the same time as a steamer with speaker? Will they both sound? Any information would be appreciated. Including opinions of how it sounds or operates. Thank you all for continually sharing your information on the S-Trains listing!! Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4259	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer Electronic Whistle Control

In a message dated 7/31/99 9:54:04 AM, wmhtreftsv@... writes: << I have recently acquired an American Flyer Electronic Whistle Control, but the only information I have been able to find about it is how to wire and service it in the K-Line service manual. It has no catalog number that I can find, and I haven't spotted it in the Greenberg's Guide #ll. This is the control with the 110 volt lead, transformer, and rectifier tube inside and the lever on the case to operate it. Was there a number that I can use for reference? And of course, the ever persistent question, what is it's value? ............. So another question comes to mind. What will happen if a diesel engine with speaker is on the track at the same time as a steamer with speaker? Will they both sound? >> The electronic whistle control from 1950 does not have a number. It isn't listed in my copy of the GB Vol 2 (or in the pocket guide) so I guess we can add that to the legion of deficiencies of the Greenberg AF books. They are worth roughly $50-60 in working order. This unit is specific to the design of the electronic whistles for 1950 for the 324AC and the 360/361 Santa Fe's. If you are going to be mostly running engines from later years than 1950, you will be better off with a decent copy of the 708. In either case, if two engines are in the same block (track), both will 'sound'. (Tom J. may wish to comment further.). As for the sonic result, this has proved to be a bit controversial. Some do not like the AF Nathan air chime whistles, while others (like me) get a kick of having them operate on their layouts, if for no other reason than for the challenge of getting them to sound well, and for nostalgia. Along with the smell of Flyer smoke, nothing takes me back faster to Christmas of the 50's than the sounds of a 1953 AF 474/475 (The locos from the different periods do have distinctly different colorations due to speaker differences.). Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4260	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: Re: The Conventions in St. Paul

At 12:26 PM 7/29/99 -0400, Alex Mendelsohn wrote: >From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> > >Wow Michael, these are terrific subjects. > >- Making your layout come alive with Animation (Larry Graf) >- Signalling on the Prototype (Bill Ataras) >- a variety of DCC clinics >- UK and other European modeling (Kelvin White) >- Painting Brass locos (Kathy Newall) >- Layout Photography (Tommy Holt) >- Modular Signalling System (Rich Weyand) >- the Southern New England Railway (Marty McGuirk) > >Are there any articles or other material forthcoming about these subjects? >Also, what is a Super Smoker? > >regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine Alex (et.al.), Re: the "Super Smoker" -- I'll leave that to Bill Clark to answer -- it's his development :-) Re: the clinics and articles, other materials. Larry Graf has a two page handout for his animation clinic. I'll try to dig it out of the convention materials and scan it in over the weekend. Not a lot of material, but useful material such as pointers to where to buy components to do animation. A lot of Larry's clinic was live show and tell and a video from his layout. We'll likely implement a few of these items in S over the next several months -- perhaps an article on these will be forthcoming. The other clinics listed above did not have handouts at the clinics, or at least I did not see a copy. However, the clinics by Newall, Weyand, Ataras, and several DCC clinics are documented in "The Clinic Book" -- a book with information submitted by the clinicians of 50+ clinics at the NMRA National. This book was sold at the convention, but usually copies are available to others after the convention by contacting the NMRA National office in Chattanooga, TN. These have been done for previous NMRA Nationals as well (not all), and I think they are very valuable. I seem to recall it costing about $9.95 at the convention. 450 pages in this years book, about 5"x8" in size. One additional clinic I forgot to list was also by Bill Ataras, on Modeling Grade Crossing Scenes. Bill does a excellent slide tour of the prototype in his area as he explains the components of grade crossings, various types, various details, etc. I wish he would put it on video. This fits in really well with the new brass grade crossing crossbucks, lights and gates coming shortly from NJ International for S Scale, and your favorite control system. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4261	From: Michael Greene	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: Re: Making your layout come alive with Animation (Larry Graf)

At 04:00 PM 7/30/99 -0400, Peter Ervin wrote: >From: Peter Ervin <pjervin@...> > > >"Making your layout come alive with Animation (Larry Graf)" was one of the >clinics at the convention. Does anyone know how to get a hold of Larry >Graf? I'd be interested in picking his brain for my layout. > >Peter Ervin Peter None of the info I have has any contact info for Larry. But based on the fact that he gave some tips on surplus outlets in the St. Paul area (where I got some great animation motors cheap), I expect is lives in the Twin Cities area. Since the clinic was at the NMRA convention, Larry must be an NMRA member. You can probably get contact details from the NMRA Headquarters office. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4262	From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: Ballast

Jeffrey Burnatowski asked about a cheaper ballast. Try bird grit found in pet stores.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4263	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: ballast

The bird grit I have seen is way too light colored and does not look well, esp. with brightly colored toy trains. Bird grit is sort of a light tan color. Real ballast is usually grey, rust, brown, or black depending on locale. TJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4264	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: ballast

Hi all, I've got a lot of track ballast and would like to know what is a good price to sell it for? Here is a picture of the size, and the color is gray. I painted some of them and mix them together. Let me know what you think a lb. Should go for? Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4265	From: GPMLG@xxx.xxx	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: ballast

Oh, I forgot that you can't see the pictures, so if you want to see let me know. George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4266	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 7/31/1999
Subject: Re: ballast

I have used bird grit because the canary size was perfect. Some of it is too tan/yellow in color as Tom Jarcho mentioned (it varies by brand). Merely get a small bottle of black acrylic paint or India ink at any office supply or art store and tint your ballast cement. This takes care of the color problem plus you can adjust the color density to suit your taste. We have used this on some of out RASG club modules with decent results. Cost of grit plus paint or ink is a little less than ballast. If you want to buy 50# bags of grit that is also available at some pet stores, but usually needs screening to get the fines you want. Our club bought a bag but it is so cumbersome to deal with that I prefer to use the above mentioned canary grit with coloring. Jarcho wrote: > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > The bird grit I have seen is way too light colored and does not look well, > esp. with brightly colored toy trains. Bird grit is sort of a light tan > color. Real ballast is usually grey, rust, brown, or black depending on > locale. TJ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, > NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9 percent FIXED APR. > Apply online today! http://www.onelist.com/ad/nextcard1 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4267	From: James Wysopal	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: vacation

Pleae remove me from the list while I am on vacation. Thanks, Jim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4268	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Glenn Ritter Comments

I read with interest Glenn Ritter's most recent comments about folks in the South and mid-West not having access to shows and being in need of outlets for trains. That was my situation some years back. I am a collector of original Gilbert Amaerican Flyer and finding anything other than the few common broken pieces was extremely difficult. The only true way to find any at all was to advertise for sets and collections. With the pressures of raising families and mortgage payments and orthodontists and the like, I would sell off the pieces I didn't want to pay for my hobbly. Thus was born: http://www.americanflyertrains.com It was a part time thing to support my (habit) hobby but, with my eventual layoff from the dying defense industry, it has become my salvation and a full time dream come true. I get to play with my favorite toys during the business day! This short story is only to illustrate that there are a whole bunch of us out there with the trains and the parts (like Doug Peck and Joe Haenn) and the interest to help. Our friends with the interest but no trains or parts need to know we are here! I have been doing my part (and willing to do more as I can) by spreading the "S" gospel at shows and where I can afford to put some advertising and through links at my website but, I think as a whole, we, collectively need to do more outreach to those that Glenn mentioned. I am open to any and all ideas. The more the word spreads that product is available, the more we all benefit. Mark B. Preman http://www.americanflyertrains.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4269	From: Mark Preman	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

Hey gang, I have posted the new list for August. Some new stuff to be sure but, I am more excited to tell you that I have found a merchant service company that will allow me to offer credit card convenience to you without it cost me an arm and a leg. I can now accept Master Card and Visa with Discover and Amex to follow shortly. You also need to try to find KITBASHER'S KORNER. I have always stashed away the pieces that need work for later efforts and squirelled away the basket cases for parts but.....I am running out of storage space and I find that because of the strong sales volume(thank you very much) I don't have time to work on this stuff! At KITBASHER"S KORNER you will find items in need of repair, items that you can make into something else, projects for those of you without any other form of life, and stuff for parts. Anyway, happy hunting! Mark B. Preman http://www.americanflyertrains.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4270	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Little People

I wish to thank all of you that have responded for my search for little people...I was directed to toys are us....with a small blister packs with a couple of "little people" for a couple dollars.....I saw them...however I found a better setup....called "Big City Emergency Play Set" and "Big City Farm Play Set"...for $9.99 you get about 5-6 people and 45 other pieces ie......signs, cars, truck, buildings....very close to scale....worth looking into if you needed additional pieces to your set....again thanks, all of you are a great group of people....Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4271	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: HiRail trak-cleaning. New track avail = ?

Have a bunch of old AF track, some with moderate rust, and a tad oily overall. Can I wipe down with lacq thinner then polish the top and inner radius with say 600 w/dry paper??? Initial go round gave lotsa sparking at tender pickup of a fairly decent 307 tender truck one side. And thought I saw 'someone' had new modular hirail track in large radius/large sized pieces- anyone recall that or who? thanx! L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4272	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Brown hoist crane Restringing?

Gentlemen you all have been very help full in helping restore many of the AF items that I have found. I am now in need of some kind of diagram to restring a Brown hoist crane that I have recently found. Any and all suggestions are welcome. Thanks Tom Rolfsmeyer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4273	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Brownhoist crane restringing

Tom Barker gave a drawing of the way to string an Industrial Brownhoist Crane in the Roundhouse column in the July/August 1981 issue of S-Gaugian magazine. If you don't have a copy of this, I'll try to put it into words. For this description, I am standing behind the cab of the crane, looking toward the boom. I refer to the two pulleys attached to the hinged (boom) plate mounted on the boom as "upper" pulleys, and the two attached to the roof of the cab as "lower" pulleys. The string comes from the rear crank in the cab to the inside of the upper left pulley. Go around the pulley and down to the outside of the lower left pulley. Go around the lower left pulley and up to the inside of the upper right pulley. Go around the upper right pulley and down to the outside of the lower right pulley. Go around the lower right pulley and up to and through the lower hole in the boom plate. Double knot it. You're done. Thanks to Tom Jarcho and his predecessors who have authored the Roundhouse column for providing this kind of information. If this is still not clear, e-mail me and I'll try scanning the drawing and e-mail it to you. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4274	From: The Reis'	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: crane restringing and other items

I have the crane restringing diagram and many others like loco and diesel rewiring diagrams I received from the late Bob Stromberg many years ago. I scanned and sent the crane drawing to Tom R. but the s-list dosn't accept files that large. Is there a web page (Paul?) that would like these scanned files (and what format) for posting. Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4275	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Re-string

restring diagram is at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/diagram/restring.htm Paul Yorke American Flyer operator/Stereo Photographer S-Trains Mailing / http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains (Primary Email Yorke@... - Backup paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4276	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Re: HiRail trak-cleaning. New track avail = ?

Don't know if this is what you mean by Modular hirail but there are 3 that come to mind: Gargraves newer plastic tie sectional track American Models code 148 sectional track S Helper Service code 125 sectional track with ballast To clean track try a track cleaner as sold at any hobby store. Popular at stores selling HO track. They are blocks containing abrasive embedded in a rubbery compound. Also see S Gaugian for adds for a track cleaning car if you want to pony up the price. LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Have a bunch of old AF track, some with moderate rust, and a tad oily overall. > Can I wipe down with lacq thinner then polish the top and inner radius with > say 600 w/dry paper??? Initial go round gave lotsa sparking at tender pickup > of a fairly decent 307 tender truck one side. > And thought I saw 'someone' had new modular hirail track in large > radius/large sized pieces- anyone recall that or who? > thanx! > L. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Congratulations DALMATIANRESCUE. Our latest ONElist of the week. > To see full story and submit YOUR ONElist story, go to > http://www.onelist.com/info/ootw_19.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4277	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Re: Brown hoist crane Restringing?

Try Paul Yorke's web site for a picture. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ Tom Rolfsmeyer wrote: > > From: Tom Rolfsmeyer <silvertom@...> > > Gentlemen you all have been very help full in helping restore many of > the AF items that I have found. I am now in need of some kind of diagram > to restring a Brown hoist crane that I have recently found. Any and all > suggestions are welcome. > > Thanks > > Tom Rolfsmeyer > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ATTN ONELIST USERS: stay current on the latest activities, > programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at > <a href=" http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/onelist_announce ">Click</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4278	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 8/1/1999
Subject: Thanks guys.

Wow, that is some quick response and great feed back. I found the pics on Pauls site and printed them out. Now I get to go and finish the fix it and clean up job I started. Trains are a lot more fun than the net. So I'm signing off to go play with my trians. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4279	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: touch up paints

Anyone know of good touch up paints for 785 coal loader housing (biege) and risers (rust), and the roof of a 771 cattle loader shed (green)? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4280	From: John Foley	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: Decals

Hi Folks This past weekend I did a Greensbergs train show on behalf of the NASG and S gauge at Timonium Maryland. Good show a few new members and a few good sales. While there I met one Bill Mosteller a manufacturer of decals. Bill does an S decal for the Rex low side gondola. [Virginian class G-5] Also Bill is interested in doing some of his other decals in S. So go to www.greatdecals.com and check it out. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4281	From: David Golden	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: Glenn Ritter Comments

I certainly agree with the comments from Glenn. I live in a small town in Northern Ohio, and finding out about S-Gauge products and shows is a real challenge. I am just beginning to set up my layout after years of seeing it displayed on a shelf, so I need all the direction I can get. I am not sure what the answer is, but thank heavens for this list.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4282	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: More Brass for Sale

Howdy Friends We have added some S scale pieces we picked up at St. Paul to the web listing at http://www.btsrr.com/btsodd01.htm Also, have received from our painter a Greenbrier GP-30 with antenna painted in PRR.... $959.00. Thanks, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4283	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: Re: HiRail trak-cleaning. New track avail = ?

We have been using the Aztec track cleaning car on our show layout and it makes a big difference. Don Thompson S Helper Service "Charles E. Smith" wrote: > From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > > Don't know if this is what you mean by Modular hirail but there are 3 > that come to mind: > Gargraves newer plastic tie sectional track > American Models code 148 sectional track > S Helper Service code 125 sectional track with ballast > > To clean track try a track cleaner as sold at any hobby store. Popular > at stores selling HO track. They are blocks containing abrasive > embedded in a rubbery compound. Also see S Gaugian for adds for a track > cleaning car if you want to pony up the price. > > LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > > > Have a bunch of old AF track, some with moderate rust, and a tad oily overall. > > Can I wipe down with lacq thinner then polish the top and inner radius with > > say 600 w/dry paper??? Initial go round gave lotsa sparking at tender pickup > > of a fairly decent 307 tender truck one side. > > And thought I saw 'someone' had new modular hirail track in large > > radius/large sized pieces- anyone recall that or who? > > thanx! > > L. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4284	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Larry Graf]

Some one was looking for Larry Graf? -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4285	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/2/1999
Subject: Fwd: American Flyer

hey,gang-here's what the big l had to say to me-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4286	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 324

I was able to match a 785 coal loader with paint found at the local home/lumber store (like Home Depot). I believe most were Krylon. Looked identical to original from a few feet away. Up close it looked "newer". The accessory green from PortLines and others is a close match for the cattle loader. Sometimes an overspray of dull coat or semi gloss works well. I have used semi gloss over flat black (Rustoleum barbeque black or similar) to match AF steam engines. If I still have the list of colors for the 785, I'll post when I find them. --- Nick Colleran > >Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:07:24 -0400 > From: David_Horn@... >Subject: touch up paints > >Anyone know of good touch up paints for 785 coal loader housing (biege) and >risers (rust), and the roof of a 771 cattle loader shed (green)? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4287	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Big L reply, lost email

Hey gang-big L sayeth: "Thank you for your kind and gererous comments about American Flyer Trains. As of now, we are unable to provide any information regarding new production status." Also-somebody had inquired if I had a #299 Atlantic. The old email list is empty, so I haven't a clue who it was. The answer is, yes i do have a #299, and it is for sale. thanks-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4288	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Re: Cattle loader roof

--- Nick and Becky Colleran <colleran@...> wrote: > The accessory green from PortLines and others is a close match for the cattle loader. How do you duplicate the wormlike texture on the roof? _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4289	From: michael prell	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Gilbert Erector Sets

Lately I've been toying (pun intended) with the idea of obtaining a Gilbert Erector Set for the sole purpose of actually building some of the great stuff that I never got to as a kid. One of my favorites was the walking beam steam engine. Are there folks who still deal in these wonderful sets, and if so could someone provide me with a contacts list? Thanks. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4290	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert Erector Sets

Try this site for starters: http://www.pandys.com/ michael prell wrote: > > From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > > Lately I've been toying (pun intended) with the idea of obtaining a > Gilbert Erector Set for the sole purpose of actually building some of > the great stuff that I never got to as a kid. One of my favorites was > the walking beam steam engine. Are there folks who still deal in these > wonderful sets, and if so could someone provide me with a contacts > list? Thanks. > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com by starting a new list at ONElist. > Drawing is held each week through August 20. For details, go to > http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4291	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert Erector Sets

--- michael prell <mlprell@...> wrote: Are there folks who still deal in these wonderful sets, and if so could someone provide me with a contacts list? How about Ebay? I searched for erector and found 154 Erector set auctions going on now. _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4292	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Michael, there used to be an add run in Classic Toy Trains for Erector sets ,it may be the same as the web site listed in a previous posting.Have fun.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4293	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: Re: Cattle loader roof

Hi all, The "worm-like" texture on the roof is "Crinkle paint", a mixture of incompatible solvents that cause that effect. I bought some at the Auto parts store here, wish I could find the can, as it did a wonderful job, except that it's black. OK, found the can, :Palsti-Kote Wrinkle finish textured spray paint, #217 Black 12 OZ, bottom of can is stamped, "MAX VOC 65%" Which is for us Californians so it must meet some standard, although 65% is pretty high for CA. You can use a hair dryer to improve and quicken the wrinkling. I would suggest using this stuff (maybe a lighter color if you can find it), then overcoating it w/ the green you like. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4294	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: AC GILBERT PLANT IN NEW HAVEN

Would someone know the street address for the old plant in New Haven, Ct.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4295	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/3/1999
Subject: A.F. Database Application

I have written an extensive application for the A.F. enthusiast. It enables the tracking of your collection items in any gauge. Records are pre-programed for S and HO, with the ability to add additional records for new versions, duplicates, and O or Standard Gauge. There is the ability to get an instant values of all items items in your collection. It is also pre-programed with sets data with the ability to ad additional sets if any are found in the future. You can look up sets by set number, car, or loco. There is also the ability to export to a worksheet type file, any records of items you have in the collection, or only items you want to sell. You can also export sets data by Loco or set number. You can inventory parts, and obtain instant cost or retail values of the inventory. There are also a variety of reports. I have a Trial copy I can attach to e-mail for you to play around with for a few days to see if you like the application. In Zipped form its 2.1 meg so it will take a few minutes to download. Ask if interested. If you like this application, I also have a copy for L Pre War, L Post War, and Plasticville. Thanks.... Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4296	From: Andrew Baird	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4297	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Interesting news....

I just heard on the local Philly news that Bachman is closed after half century of doing business in the area. I am fairly sure this is the company that made trains and Plasticville etc. Seems Mr Maddux got out just in time if this be true. I'll try to find out more later.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4298	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: Interesting news....

>From: Trains16@... > >I just heard on the local Philly news that Bachman is closed after half >century of doing business in the area. I am fairly sure this is the company >that made trains and Plasticville etc. Seems Mr Maddux got out just in time >if this be true. I'll try to find out more later. Not to disagree with you but Bachman is certainly not closing. In fact they are healthier now then they have ever been. Perhaps another company with the same name is having troubles in Philadelphia. I know that here in Milwaukee Wisconsin the Bachman Furniture Company recently went out of business. Keeping the S-Faith, Andrew McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4299	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: erector sets

From: michael prell <mlprell@...> Subject: Gilbert Erector Sets "Lately I've been toying (pun intended) with the idea of obtaining a Gilbert Erector Set for the sole purpose of actually building some of the great stuff that I never got to as a kid. One of my favorites was the walking beam steam engine. Are there folks who still deal in these wonderful sets, and if so could someone provide me with a contacts list? Thanks. " Michael, Yes there is someone who can help you. A guy in our club, Richard Meyer in the Golden Spike American Flyer Club, has a number of these sets, and creates fabulous setups for our train shows. His address is: RMeyer444@... Good luck, Wayne Broadhead Golden Spike AF Club

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4300	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 325

In a message dated 8/4/99 7:22:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << Would someone know the street address for the old plant in New Haven, Ct. >> Erector Square, Peck Street, New Haven, CT

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4301	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: lists

I think there should be ONE LIST. 1. S scalers have all kinds of information that is helpful to Flyer guys building layouts , etc. 2. The biggest problem with S scale is the lack of people in it. Flyer guys are one of the most fruitful recruiting grounds for s scalers. Some of us do get tired of white circles around the drive wheels and " American Flyer Lines" on everything. S scale is another way of getting at what A c Gilbert was getting at. Flyer and scale enthusiasts are both in the same position -- both being small minorities. Cross-fertilization is one of the biggest benefits of these lists. Why lose it? Deleting unwanted messages takes only seconds. So I am in favor of having one list. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4302	From: Bill Porter	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Multiple S lists

I agree with Tom. We would all be better off if there was just one list. Perhaps we could encourage some rules for posting and our esteemed moderator could have a page with those recommended practices. For instance, we all know is is good to delete the excess stuff from any reply - there is no need for the entire digest nor for the extra copy of the One-List references that are automatically added to the bottom if every post. How about if we make a cooperative effort to include the real subject matter in the subject line? We might even include a key word or two such as 'Flyer', 'Prototype Data' or 'Scale' if it is appropriate. I would also encourage everyone to put their names on their correspondence. Many of the postings have only e-mail handles that just about like 'anonymous'. It seems the differences between Hi Rail, Flyer, Scale, fine scale and the other denominations is merely in where the writer draws the line between toylike and prototype fidelity. None of our models is absolutely correct - for instance, try making model trains with scale sheet metal thickness). So, our differences are all just a matter of degree. Most Flyer devotees say that they are attracted to the Products Of Gilbert because they are so much more realistic than brand L. That doesn't sound like a reason to divide 'scale' from 'Flyer' to me. I suspect that the robustness of the Flyer products would be a solid improvement over the delicate scale equipment. I further suspect that some improved detail added on in place of the cast on parts on Gilbert factory items or smaller wheel flanges would improve the pleasure derived from watching them run around a loop. Most of us would benefit from the ideas from most of the rest of us. That's my 2 cents for free, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Jarcho <jarcho@...> To: S-trains@onelist.com <S-trains@onelist.com> Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 1:04 PM Subject: [S-Trains] lists >From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > >I think there should be ONE LIST. > >1. S scalers have all kinds of information that is helpful to Flyer guys >building layouts , etc. > >2. The biggest problem with S scale is the lack of people in it. Flyer >guys are one of the most fruitful recruiting grounds for s scalers. Some >of us do get tired of white circles around the drive wheels and " American >Flyer Lines" on everything. S scale is another way of getting at what A c >Gilbert was getting at. > >Flyer and scale enthusiasts are both in the same position -- both being >small minorities. > >Cross-fertilization is one of the biggest benefits of these lists. Why >lose it? Deleting unwanted messages takes only seconds. So I am in favor >of having one list. Tom Jarcho >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4303	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Track Cleaning!

A few days ago..someone wanted to know a good track cleaner....I have found a product called "GOO GONE" works very well with not much effort..Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4304	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: one list-sure

i am in favor of all the info being on one list. not all the rivet counter talk falls on deaf ears-structures available in S being the most important to me.the track topisc are a plus for sure-even with rubber roadbed and k-line S54 we are limited in what we can run on-if anyone else is into Standard gauge,the tinplate S track situation does mirror its elder cousin in this respect!Operating accessories is also a critical area in which we can all share-right now, i'm trying to find a way of animating the old lindberg/pyro Rob't E. Lee on a sheet of waterglass (hint:magnets) and will share if successful-and sharing is the point of a list like this.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4305	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: Multiple S lists

I agree with Bill Porter. I always enjoy reading about the activities of S scale modelers, and always enjoy seeing what they're doing, even if my affiliation is vicarious. It's the same reason i enjoy reading about HO pikes in the various publications. I may be an American Flyer modeler today, but go for S scale tomorrow. A good feature article talking about just that very progression appeared in last year's Model Railroader annual layout compendium. Check it out. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4306	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Trade

A while back someone was saying that they had some junker American Flyer body shells that they would trade for am flyer trucks. Who was this . Still interested?? contact me off list Phil Randall ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4307	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Dave's Flyer Tracker

Yes, Dave, I would like to try out your software. Chris Zizzo Busy-boy@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4308	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: A.F. Database Application

AFTRAIN@... I cannot send the copy of the database file its returned as undeliverable. Fatal errors, service unavailable.... :-(

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4309	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: Crinkle paint

In a message dated 8/4/99 7:22:49 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << > The accessory green from PortLines and others is a close match for the cattle loader. How do you duplicate the wormlike texture on the roof? _ >> If you can't locate the auto paint that Dave referred to, we also carry the black crinkle-finish paint, as one of our repro paints for AF. As Dave said, you then have to overspray it, when dry, with accy green (of which we now carry two different shades). Have all paints in either spraycans or 2-oz jars. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4310	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Multiple S lists

I told myself I wasn't going to get into this back-and-forth discussion...... and I REALLY hate to contribute to lengthening this thread.......BUT........ I do believe Tom has hit it RIGHT on target with the following comments! Personally, I never had any problem with the ONElist for S. I skimmed the Digest version each day and read what I wanted to, skipped what I wanted to. I frequently would read scale-oriented comments, even though my interests are not in the S-scale arena. I can understand that if you're NOT getting the list in DIGEST form, then it may be more annoying to sort out the relevant messages for you. But that's why I have chosen to stick with the Digest. The ONLY thing that ever annoyed me was the accidental/whatever quoting of an entire digest!............And 12 different lists isn't going to solve that.....it's just getting all members, including the regular new ones who come on board, on the learning curve. No one set of instructions will work.....it depends on the individuals' systems. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html << >1. S scalers have all kinds of information that is helpful to Flyer guys >building layouts , etc. > >2. The biggest problem with S scale is the lack of people in it. Flyer >guys are one of the most fruitful recruiting grounds for s scalers. Some >of us do get tired of white circles around the drive wheels and " American >Flyer Lines" on everything. S scale is another way of getting at what A c >Gilbert was getting at. > >Flyer and scale enthusiasts are both in the same position -- both being >small minorities. > >Cross-fertilization is one of the biggest benefits of these lists. Why >lose it? Deleting unwanted messages takes only seconds. So I am in favor >of having one list. Tom Jarcho > >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4311	From: John Foley	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: NASG 99 UP Box

Hi Folks One of the NASG freight cars for 99 is a great looking UP boxcar. Some are still left {but not many} If you are interested please go to http:trainweb.com/nasg/99nasgcar.html The car came out as good looking as the photo at above web page. If you are not a NASG member you are invited to join using the same order form for car. And if you did order a car or two or more, You are welcome to get more. Remember this car comes in 4 #'s and I know the #'s I sent to you. John Foley foley164@... P.S. no limit on cars, as all orders have been filled.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4312	From: John Foley	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: UP CAR OOPS

HI Are is the correct address for NASG UP Box http://trainweb.com/nasg/99nasgcar.html John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4313	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: Interesting news....

Why shouldn't they be healthy my information says they are owned by the mfg in Hong Kong. Larry Andy McBride wrote: > From: Andy McBride <amcbride@...> > > >From: Trains16@... > > > >I just heard on the local Philly news that Bachman is closed after half > >century of doing business in the area. I am fairly sure this is the company > >that made trains and Plasticville etc. Seems Mr Maddux got out just in time > >if this be true. I'll try to find out more later. > > Not to disagree with you but Bachman is certainly not closing. In fact they > are healthier now then they have ever been. Perhaps another company with > the same name is having troubles in Philadelphia. I know that here in > Milwaukee Wisconsin the Bachman Furniture Company recently went out of > business. > > Keeping the S-Faith, > > Andrew McBride > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist users: YOU can win a $100 gift certificate to Amazon.com. > Check out the FRIENDS & FAMILY program to find out how. > For details, go to http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4314	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Racing Champs

Hi S'ers Among the cars Racing champs is going to produce, according to their web page, is #243 49 Cadillac Coupe Deville 2 tone blue, #244 65 Ford Galaxy teal, and in their fire and rescue series # 22 1940 Ford sedan Ambulance. If any one sees these on the shelves any time soon, please put a note on here so I may start a search for them. Thanks. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4315	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: AC GILBERT PLANT IN NEW HAVEN

On Tue, 03 Aug 1999, "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> wrote: >Would someone know the street address for the old plant in New Haven, >Ct. Hi Jeff, The A. C. Gilbert Co. was located on Peck Street in New Haven, CT. It took up the entire block at the northwest corner of Blatchley Avenue and Peck Streets. Gilbert called it Erector Square and the building is still known by the same name. It now houses small businesses and artist lofts. Craig O'Connell S Scale Model Railroading http://trainweb.com/crocon/sscale.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4316	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Multiple S lists

Ditto here, I barely have enough time to go over one list not to mention multiples when much of the info is redundant. . Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. PortLines@... wrote: > From: PortLines@... > > I told myself I wasn't going to get into this back-and-forth discussion...... > and I REALLY hate to contribute to lengthening this thread.......BUT........ > I do believe Tom has hit it RIGHT on target with the following comments! > Personally, I never had any problem with the ONElist for S. I skimmed the > Digest version each day and read what I wanted to, skipped what I wanted to. > I frequently would read scale-oriented comments, even though my interests are > not in the S-scale arena. > I can understand that if you're NOT getting the list in DIGEST form, then it > may be more annoying to sort out the relevant messages for you. But that's > why I have chosen to stick with the Digest. > The ONLY thing that ever annoyed me was the accidental/whatever quoting of an > entire digest!............And 12 different lists isn't going to solve > that.....it's just getting all members, including the regular new ones who > come on board, on the learning curve. No one set of instructions will > work.....it depends on the individuals' systems. > Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only > Port Lines Hobby Supply > 6 Storeybrooke Drive > Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 > portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html > > << >1. S scalers have all kinds of information that is helpful to Flyer guys > >building layouts , etc. > > > >2. The biggest problem with S scale is the lack of people in it. Flyer > >guys are one of the most fruitful recruiting grounds for s scalers. Some > >of us do get tired of white circles around the drive wheels and " American > >Flyer Lines" on everything. S scale is another way of getting at what A c > >Gilbert was getting at. > > > >Flyer and scale enthusiasts are both in the same position -- both being > >small minorities. > > > >Cross-fertilization is one of the biggest benefits of these lists. Why > >lose it? Deleting unwanted messages takes only seconds. So I am in favor > >of having one list. Tom Jarcho -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4317	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Schwan's Truck

I received my Lledo Schwan's truck. It really is good looking, BUT it is sadly oversize for S scale. It certainly is well within the size range of vehicles used for S layouts, but I have been spoiled by the many Mint Editions vehicles which are right on 1:64th scale. SO, if anybody wants it, I'll be happy to sell mine for the same cost as Schwan's gets, and you need send NO proof of purchase coupons. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.aol.com/topchop1/stovebolt.html ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4318	From: The Reis'	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert Erector Sets

For those interested in Erector sets: Al Sternagle R.R 2, Box 400 Hollidaysberg, Pa 16648 814-695-7012 Puts out some great publications for reasonable cost Like his "Erector Parts Illustrated" and "Erector Notes" He also references: Bill Clark P.O. Box 1281 Alameda. Ca. 94501 510-531-0678 as having parts, manuals, and sets for sale. eric reis Kenmore, Wa. ----- Original Message ----- From: michael prell <mlprell@...> To: Paul York <S-Trains@onelist.com>; toy trains <toytrains@...> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 9:29 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Gilbert Erector Sets > From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > > > Lately I've been toying (pun intended) with the idea of obtaining a > Gilbert Erector Set for the sole purpose of actually building some of > the great stuff that I never got to as a kid. One of my favorites was > the walking beam steam engine. Are there folks who still deal in these > wonderful sets, and if so could someone provide me with a contacts > list? Thanks. > > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com by starting a new list at ONElist. > Drawing is held each week through August 20. For details, go to > http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4319	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Fwd: Interesting news....UPDATE

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4320	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Interesting news.... UPDATE

Oooookkkk it didn't like to politely forward the message, so I'll chop and plaster. I finally got a bit of news on this. It seems that its Bachman the snack food company is closing a chip plant here thats been around for half a century, and is now deemed unprofitable. They will be moving the potato chips operations to Canada. It was not the Trains/Plasticville company which is good. They did not elaborate this AM on the small spot they mentioned, and I was wondering all day which company it might be. Good news for train fans, bad news for chip lovers..... (S)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4321	From: Richard	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: Convention Feedback

Alright all you lucky lucky guys and gals that got to go to big tent (s) !! I would be very interested in hearing any anecdotal type stuff as to how "S" is perceived.......I don't suppose there were many of the smaller scales that wandered down the road to have a look see ?? Any interesting comments from attendees at the NMRA show towards "S"...any "oh thats really neat!!..what scale is that again??" type stuff. With the passing of the Guide..were any interesting conversations had with any one from the majors?? Were any un-interesting ones had!! ??? Any chance we (the scale) can get one or more of the Mags to do a thing on the NASG convention..pix and all?? cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4322	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 8/4/1999
Subject: 1999 NASG CONVENTION LAYOUT TOUR PHOTOS

Hi Folks, The NASG now has some photos of some of the layout tours from the 1999 NASG convention available online at: http://trainweb.com/nasg/99convention/index.html More photos of more layouts will be added so check back in the days to come. Ciao, Craig S. O'Connell NASG Website Director

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4323	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: S-Scale list joined by sfinescale members

Thanks to Bill Lane's help we have move all the SFineScale subscribers onto the S-Scale list. Now there is a single list for the Scale oriented folks to meet like minded modelers. It is now time to get back to Model railroading. Any list related suggestions should be directed to me(yorke@...), I think most of the subscribers are tired of all this 'list' talk. S-Trains is for Flyer/S-Gauge/Collecting/Hi-Rail (flyer compatible) S-Scale is for protypical scale modeling only -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4324	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: A.F. 295

I recently acquired an A.F. 295 steam engine with a whistle in the tender. However, the speaker in the tender is cracked. Does anyone know of a simple way to repair this or replace it entirely? (The paper is cracked) I am also still looking for green 650 & 651 bodies. Thanks! Mike Leahy (Boulder)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4325	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: Interesting news....

>From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > >Why shouldn't they be healthy my information says they are owned by the mfg in >Hong Kong. I know I'm going to regret asking this but what does that have to do with anything? Andrew McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4326	From: Train Collectors Association	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: A.F. 295

Mike, General Cement, now known as GC, had a speaker repair cement. You should be able to get it from a Radio Shack store. Cheers, Ron Morris At 06:59 AM 8/5/99 -0600, you wrote: >From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > >I recently acquired an A.F. 295 steam engine with a whistle in the tender. >However, the speaker in the tender is cracked. Does anyone know of a >simple way to repair this or replace it entirely? (The paper is cracked) > >I am also still looking for green 650 & 651 bodies. > >Thanks! > >Mike Leahy (Boulder) > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Congratulations to Richard van den Brink >This week's FRIENDS & FAMILY WINNER! >To enter go to http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4327	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Convention Feedback

My S Scale layout was on the NMRA Convention layout tours. Even though it is still an "infant" layout, with more work to go than is complete, I was amazed at the ooh's and ah's I received from many of the "small scalers" present. I lost count of the number of times I heard; "You know, I think that "S" is the perfect size. It is large enough to provide detail but doesn't take up significantly more space than HO." Then, of course, came the usual follow-up comments about too bad I have too much invested in my HO to convert", too bad there is not the variety of structures and rolling stock available (at reasonable prices) as for the other scales", etc. etc. We had a number of NMRA convention goers come over to the Kelly to see what was up with S. My estimate was probably about 50 non-S scalers(out of 2000 or so registered for the NMRA) model railroaders ventured over. There were then probably another 20 "less serious railroaders", members of the public attendance from the National Train Show who wondered over and asked if they could go through the S Market area, many inquiring about the American Flyer trains "of their youth" (sorry about that - this is the SCALE list!). We also received a number of comments about how the NASG modeling contest was superior to the NMRA contest, both in terms of the quality and variety of the models. Billy, Bill, Ron and Don can make their own comments but we've also heard that S was very well represented at the National Train Show, both in terms of the scale in general and in interest from the model railroading public at the show. The Lake Special Convention badge was very distinctive in its "blue on a yellow background" and several of the non-S vendors at the show came to recognize it as respresenting an S scaler. We received comments about how they had never seen so many folks interested in S before. Perhaps this has been one of the best benefits of the NASG convention concurrent with the NMRA convention? Walt Jopke > ---------- > From: Richard[SMTP:richard_snook@...] > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 9:20 PM > To: s-trains@onelist.com > Cc: S-Scale > Subject: [S-Scale] Convention Feedback > > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > Alright all you lucky lucky guys and gals that got to go to big tent (s) > !! > > I would be very interested in hearing any anecdotal type stuff as to > how "S" is perceived.......I don't suppose there were many of the > smaller scales that wandered down the road to have a look see ?? > Any interesting comments from attendees at the NMRA show towards > "S"...any "oh thats really neat!!..what scale is that again??" type > stuff. > > With the passing of the Guide..were any interesting conversations had > with any one from the majors?? Were any un-interesting ones had!! ??? > > Any chance we (the scale) can get one or more of the Mags to do a thing > on the NASG convention..pix and all?? > > cheers >:~)) Richard > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com by starting a new list at ONElist. > Drawing is held each week through August 20. For details, go to > http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4328	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Convention Feedback

At 09:32 AM 8/5/99 -0500, JOPKE, WALTER wrote: >Billy, Bill, Ron and Don can make their own comments but we've also heard >that S was very well represented at the National Train Show, both in terms >of the scale in general and in interest from the model railroading public at >the show. The Lake Special Convention badge was very distinctive in its >"blue on a yellow background" and several of the non-S vendors at the show >came to recognize it as respresenting an S scaler. We received comments >about how they had never seen so many folks interested in S before. > >Perhaps this has been one of the best benefits of the NASG convention >concurrent with the NMRA convention? I would echo this comment -- this was a very definite LARGE upside IMHO. Also as an aside I just have to comment about how much better the NASG Convention badge looked as compared with the NMRA Convention Badge. As a result NASG attendees really "stood out" at the NMRA Train Show and the NMRA Convention! Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4329	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Defective decals

I got some defective decals from a parts dealer that break up when I try to apply them. Apparently they are too thin. Is there anything I can do to the ones I haven't tried to apply yet to fix them, like coating them with something to make them thicker? _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4330	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: Defective decals

I have had some luck coating the exterior side with dullcote, thanks to a tip from Stan Slade. This strengthens old brittle decals, which are a common problem particularly in S scale/gauge because some of the stock is many years old. Scott Holm wrote: > > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > I got some defective decals from a parts dealer that break > up when I try to apply them. Apparently they are too thin. > Is there anything I can do to the ones I haven't tried to > apply yet to fix them, like coating them with something to > make them thicker? > _____________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Congratulations to Richard van den Brink > This week's FRIENDS & FAMILY WINNER! > To enter go to http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4331	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: Defective decals

>From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > >I got some defective decals from a parts dealer that break >up when I try to apply them. Apparently they are too thin. >Is there anything I can do to the ones I haven't tried to >apply yet to fix them, like coating them with something to >make them thicker? Try hitting them with some clear coat before soaking them in water. Make sure you give the clear coat plenty of time to dry before you try to use them. That should do the trick. Andrew McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4332	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Convention Feedback

I don't think i know much about the other stuff but I do know I had fun! :) kbt > From richard_snook@... Wed Aug 4 22:20:01 1999 > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > X-Accept-Language: en > To: s-trains@onelist.com > CC: S-Scale <S-Scale@onelist.com> > Mailing-List: list S-Scale@onelist.com; contact S-Scale-owner@onelist.com > Delivered-To: mailing list S-Scale@onelist.com > List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:S-Scale-unsubscribe@...> > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Subject: [S-Scale] Convention Feedback > > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > Alright all you lucky lucky guys and gals that got to go to big tent (s) > !! > > I would be very interested in hearing any anecdotal type stuff as to > how "S" is perceived.......I don't suppose there were many of the > smaller scales that wandered down the road to have a look see ?? > Any interesting comments from attendees at the NMRA show towards > "S"...any "oh thats really neat!!..what scale is that again??" type > stuff. > > With the passing of the Guide..were any interesting conversations had > with any one from the majors?? Were any un-interesting ones had!! ??? > > Any chance we (the scale) can get one or more of the Mags to do a thing > on the NASG convention..pix and all?? > > cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4333	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Bachmann

Hi S'ers Just got an e-mail from Bachmann. They are fine and going strong. They said it was the Bachman Snack Company going out of business. Next time you read something in the paper, try to remember the last time they spelled your name right or got a fact that you knew right. All the rest of the garbage they print is just as incorrect. Just for the record, I support the separate lists. No discussion. I just do. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4334	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: Interesting news....

Have you ever looked at the advantage a foreign business has over an American Co?The Hong Kong is the co with the money and Bachmann is just their outlet. Larry Andy McBride wrote: > From: Andy McBride <amcbride@...> > > >From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > > >Why shouldn't they be healthy my information says they are owned by the mfg in > >Hong Kong. > > I know I'm going to regret asking this but what does that have to do with > anything? > > Andrew McBride > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: home to the world's liveliest email communities. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4335	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/5/1999
Subject: Re: Defective decals

Thanks to Andy McBride for reminding me that I didn't say BEFORE application. "Charles E. Smith" wrote: > > From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > > I have had some luck coating the exterior side with dullcote, thanks to > a tip from Stan Slade. This strengthens old brittle decals, which are a > common problem particularly in S scale/gauge because some of the stock > is many years old. > > Scott Holm wrote: > > > > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > > > I got some defective decals from a parts dealer that break > > up when I try to apply them. Apparently they are too thin. > > Is there anything I can do to the ones I haven't tried to > > apply yet to fix them, like coating them with something to > > make them thicker? > > _____________________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > Congratulations to Richard van den Brink > > This week's FRIENDS & FAMILY WINNER! > > To enter go to http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4336	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Non-L opinion

- Greeting`S' - Ol' Rhett here voices the need for four lists: 1. Technical questions and technical answers 2. For-Sales and Want-to-Buys 3. Non-L opinions 4. "L" opinions Maybe two lists will do: 1. Facts and swaps 2. Opinions That is enough for my opinion Cheer`S' Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4337	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: PROMOTING THE NASG

The NASG should not be in the "business" of promoting and showing everything on the market. A flyer (that's a paper handout) can do that very inexpensively. Hi Rail can include the AF cars that NASG offers to it's members. Hi-Rail really covers all large track and large coupler cars and if a local club who does not have a layout wants to run examples of AF that seems OK. I think we should have one NASG portable layout that would fit in a minivan for easy transportation. Who has the funds for the NASG to buy a horse van to transport 2 or 3 modular layouts around the country. Also much of the country doesn't have train shows. Are we building this only for NMRA conventions? Let's encourage local clubs to build modular layouts and let those be shown at NMRA conventions. Wouldn't it be great to be able to loan this portable layout to our NASG brothers in other countries also? Glenn Ritter wrote: ... a NASG traveling layout. It should be geared to display products available today for Sn3, S scale and hirail operation. Ed Loizeaux wrote: But if NASG supports and promotes all aspects of S as it claims, then shouldn't it also display American Flyer and AF compatible products that are available today? While I'm certainly not an AF expert, is it not possible to purchase AF "stuff" from Lionel these days? If not, a nice display layout with just the SHS/AM/etc. equipment with large AF-type flanges would be appropriate. Plasticville is still available. Gargraves and SHS and AM track is all available today in AF compatible sizes. Actually, the more I think about it, a really neat tinplate layout could be constructed just using today's products only. No modeling skills needed -- just buy it and run it! NJIntl has announced an S crossing gate which can be motorized. What about Russ Down's products? They are certainly AF compatible. Of course, my little dissertation above assumes there is a distinction between "AF compatible" and Hi-Rail. Thus, two different layouts might be advantageous depending on what type of person is being recruited.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4338	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: STATIC NASG DISPLAY

A static display to show NASG products for sale would also suffice. The Regional Vice Presidents could set their own motive power in place. Now the NASG would have to offer Sn3 rolling stock to make the display complete. Again I favor a three piece portable display. 3 sections 3' x 7' with a small mountain or mining or forest scene on one section for Sn3 plus a loop of code 100 track and a loop of Code 125 (SHS) or code 148 (AM). Arthur Armstrong wrote: I was talking about a smaller display case that would be easy to ship and set up to present S-scale information at train meets. If there is already a (scale!) modular group at a train show there would probably not be a need for another display. The purpose of my suggestion was to make available a display for those areas that do not have an S scale presentation but do have some S scale modelers who could use a display.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4339	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: NASG DISPLAY ANOTHER VIEW

I am posting Bill Wade's view for all to understand where this has been and is going. Charles E. Smith wrote: > From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> > > We already have module standards for S. Our club, the RASG, sets up for > local (western NY State) train shows. If you don't want to spend the > space for turns make switching modules. > > Arthur Armstrong wrote: > > > > From: Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> > > > > Keith B. Thompson - Sun wrote: > > > > > > Skimming over the archives i noticed some discussion > > > on creating a traveling NASG modular layout. > > > > clip > > > > I am going to jump onto Keith's post to keep the thread open - > > One problem with any modular display is the radius needed to run trains. > > This results in a very big piece of furniture. > > (SNIP) Bill Wade Wrote: Howdy Keith, Art, Charles, et al Seems this subject has derailed a bit. Time to get back on track. The request to the NASG is that two display layouts be professionally built to be used as promotional items at the main hobby shows of the year. One is to be an AF layout. The other to have only S scale and Sn3. The goal is to show S trains are alive and well. The suggested size is four 3' x 4.5' modules that connect to form a 6' x 9' layout. The four units would be constructed of aluminum framework with foam scenery base for light weight. The center 1.5' by 5' of the layout would be blocked out via the backboard and would serve as storage for the equipment when packed, and for the power supplys. The valance on the sections would hide the built-in lighting. I have not had a chance to do a sketch, but will post one to my web site in the near future. If you have seen the PBL Chama layout, then you know the level of quality, and construction being proposed. Shipping would be by commercial carrier in two palletted crates that would be around 3.5' x 5' x 4.5' high. These two crates would form the base for the four sections as well as being the shipping containers. Setup would require a minimum of two people and very little time. The AF guys will have to address their layout design - I will not even attempt. As for the scale version, there would be sufficient room for a double track loop, 33" and 29" radii +/-, and a couple of sidings. The Sn3 would consist of a loop, 26" radius, and perhaps a passing track or siding or two. Equipment for the standard gauge would be a single geep pulling several freight cars in one direction and an F with a three car passenger train going the opposite. Sn3 equipment could be a Railmaster SP 50-ton switcher or perhaps PBL will donate a C-16. ;-) Structures will need to be picked to compliment the layout without cluttering it too much. Extra effort will be needed to superdetail the structures, scenery, cars, etc. Weathering is a must. Lighting in the buildings will be a plus. Quality, not quantity, is the key. Operation would simply be trains moving SLOWLY around the layout. Teathered controls would be accessable by the NASG reps in case of problems, but basically we need to simply have something moving to get the attention of the crowds. And something with tons of detail to keep them looking once we have their attention. Donations for the layout could be in the form of $$$ and product from manufacturers, $$$ from the NASG membership, and volunteering to man the booth at the shows. NASG dues may need to be raised to help with the costs. Also needed is a staging place to store the crates when not traveling and for checking them out for damage/maintenance after returning from each show. B.T.S. has volunteered to do this, but our current location in FL is not very central U.S. - it would be much better (a.k.a. cheaper transportation costs) to have storage somewhere in the upper central U.S. Guess that is about all for now..... Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4340	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Correcting old decals.

This is written in response to Scot's post about old decals breaking up. Clear coating the decals should correct the problem. As an old time model airplane builder who spent many hours building solid models, I discovered a technique in a model building magazine (I believe it was the old "Air Trails") that recommended painting clear dope over the decal sheet. After reading the tip I did this on all subsequent projects and never came to grief. I have even used this technique on styrene with good results, probably because the clear dope is dry prior to application. However, I would not recommend this approach with plastics by anyone else "just in case." By the way, if anyone has a ratty plastic shell ACG Atlantic, I would like to "talk turkey." I would like to alter one into a Philadelphia and Reading camelback Atlantic. Incidentally, the Flyer Atlantic's were based on the P&R Class P-7sb which consisted of just four locomotives, numbered 350 to 353. In fact, they were originally 4-4-4s, Class C-1, when outshopped from the P&R locomotive shops in Reading, PA. The original configuration resulted in suspension problems that were overcome within a short time of their construction by conversion to 4-4-2. The early (multiple part) Atlantics were good models of the original locomotives. They are perhaps not so good to S-scale enthusiasts, but to this ACG fan's eye they are nice models. Tom Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4341	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: 30B transformer repair

The problems never cease. Now I broke the retaining pin on a 30B transformer part PA11769. Assuming I can find one soon, (although it looks like just a thick gauge bent rod,) how is this replaced? Do you have to remove the bottom of transformer and get at it that way, or is there some way to remove the big plastic knob from the top? _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4342	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Re: 30B transformer repair

Scott, Yes, you have to remove the top, and there are different ways that the top and the core interface, you just have to observe how the handles move the contact rollers, so they still will when you re-assemble. The knobs are held on by two screws each, with spring washers and slide washers (thin flat smooth washers). The retaining pin is U shaped, with threaded ends (Hmm, maybe there's another version too, I'm writing this from memory--always a dangerous thing!) You broke one?? or did the knob break? Or maybe the nuts came loose and it lifted out? While you have it apart, look at the studs that the screws go through, the washers can wear into them, which eventually can be a problem. Unfortunately , I don't have a cure yet that I would recommend, although I have filled one with JB weld, and am waiting to see what I think (it's on my layout transformer, I guess that's a good test??). One other 'fault' I've noticed, on the later transformers witht the stamped handle shafts, the shafts wear into the brass trottle stud, so it doesn't get pushed down as far as it should. You could make a little spacer to fit inside the handle to provide a nice wide surface to strike the stud, that should fix that, and not be visible. (does this make sense without a diagram?). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4343	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 328

If the crack is not too big, rubber cement will work. Gregg Mummert gmummert@... S Gauge - the only way to Fly(er)! >Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 06:59:23 -0600 (MDT) > From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> >Subject: A.F. 295 > >I recently acquired an A.F. 295 steam engine with a whistle in the tender. >However, the speaker in the tender is cracked. Does anyone know of a >simple way to repair this or replace it entirely? (The paper is cracked) > >I am also still looking for green 650 & 651 bodies. > >Thanks! > >Mike Leahy (Boulder) > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4344	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Transformers

I read now and then about someones transformer breaking down from wear and tear. There is a way to use your transformer forever without a need for repair. Go to an old electronics store (Not radio shack) and see if you can get your hands on a old rheostat. (heavy duty variable resistor) These come with a control knob. Wire this into the variable voltage wire off of your train transformer. It might be a good idea to mount it onto your control board first. Put your transformer on full speed and leave it there. The new controler is for your speed control. For reversing I wired in a toggle switch which is easily replaced if it goes bad. There, now you don't ever have to touch the moving parts on the train transformer wearing it out. Another term for a variable rehostat is variable transformer. I tend to think that a variable resistor is for mili-amps use. A rehostat is for much higher amps. I have one for 15 amps at 120 volts. I hope this helps someone out.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4345	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: WHO ARE THESE GROUPS?

Perhaps Art thinks that the S-Scale list, the S-Trains list and the Sn3 list (if there is an Sn3 list) are entities that buy and build layouts. As a member of the NASG I thought we were trying to build up the membership of the NASG. Who is going to truck three different layouts around the country. Any volunteers on this list? Staying on NASG track, Glenn Arthur Armstrong wrote: This is why I proposed that each group - scale, AF, and Sn3 - build its own display. Each group has a better idea of what they can display and it avoids conflicts in design, operation, and expenses.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4346	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers

A rheostat is a variable resistor, and as such, it will dissipate power (get hot). It can work with ac or dc. A variable transformer, on the other hand--more properly referred to as an autotransformer--is a true ac transformer. It will not adjust DC--except indirectly when used to control a transformer-operated dc power source. However, unlike a rheostat, it will let you vary the output voltage of your train transformer without wasting power (it's very efficient). They're made by a variety of manufacturerers, but the most popular types are called Variacs or Powerstats. I have purchased them for as little as 50-cents at ham radio flea market swapfests, however larger ones (kW level and above) can cost upwards of $20. They're very expensive if you buy them new. I have actually used a large one of several kW rating (they're rated in volt-amps, which you can equate with power or watts, when selecting one) to keep an air conditioner working smoothly during power brown-outs when ac line voltage dropped to 106 volts ac! I just cranked it back to 115 V and the air conditioner was happy again. I also use smaller ones to adjust the voltage of certain circuits, such as vacuum tube filaments, or to adjust large DC transformer-operated power supply outputs. To use one, wire it into the primary of your train transformer, or make a box that will let you plug your train transformer/s into the Variac. One of the autotransformers I use here actually has an ac outlet built-into it. Others are open and require rack-mounting or mounting in an enclosure. Caution: be sure the wiring and connections on an autotransformer are not exposed. AC line voltage can cause lethal shocks. Also, these devices do NOT provide line isolation, as one side of your house wiring's ac line is connected to one side of a Variac or Powerstat. You only get isolation after your train transformer transforms the line voltage to lower track-level and accessory voltages. Do NOT even think about using one to drop the line voltage to a level where you can power your trains with it. Have fun with these very useful devices. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4347	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: PROMOTING S SCALE

As I have read recent comments about promoting S Scale, it finally struck me why some of the "apparent animosity" between the "AF" crowd and the "Scale" crowd might exist and then what impact this might have on promoting the scale. Those of you who had the opportunity to visit my layout as part of the Lake Special 99 Convention were greeted with an S Scale layout in its infancy and at the same time walls loaded with 1950's vintage American Flyer. You see, I came to the desire to learn and apply serious scale model railroading techniques strictly through my boyhood love of my American Flyer trains. I had never built or operated in anything but AF! But when I first saw the layouts of Dave Jasper, Ken Zieska and Joe Herrick, I was hooked! At this point I had started a "hirail empire" using Gargraves, American Flyer and a small amount of American Models code 148 track. This layout was quickly abandoned in favor of starting over with code 100 and learning as much as I could about modern modeling techniques. At the same time, I have not given up my love of American Flyer trains - they just remind me too much of pleasant time spent as a young boy. So I have never had this "hate scalers, love AF" or "love scale modeling, scorn Flyer enthusiasts" attitude as I would have to direct my hate back upon myself! So what does all of this rambling have to do with promoting the scale? There will undoubtedly be AF folks who can be persuaded to "make the plunge" into scale modeling as I have done but I daresay precious few. Even so, these "conversions" do nothing to increase the total number of people with S Scale/Gauge trains. The numbers of active S scalers/gaugers will increase because we add to the "pool" from two different groups of people. I had discussions with folks from both groups at the Lake Special 99. On the one hand, there are those who have stored away their American Flyer trains for years, never realizing that there are people out there actively collecting and operating the vintage toy trains. A little exposure and knowing that there are resources available for them to "relive their childhood" will go a long way. The second group is the "big" pool of possible new S scale modelers who presently model in other scales or those thinking about getting into model railroading but are basically only aware of HO and possibly N. What does this have to do with the S Modular layouts being discussed? It now seems very clear to me and I wholeheartedly agree with Billy and Art. The AF operation and the scale operation need to be kept very separate as they will appeal to two very different crowds of people. It needs to be strongly pointed out, however, that this "separation" needs to be done totally without animosity. One is not better than the other. They just represent totally different concepts. The AF layout should be as glitzy as possible with the idea of bringing back as much of the 1950's "joy" and remembrance as possible. All of the operating accessories should be on the layout. Rubber roadbed on painted plywood can be the norm. All of the major steam and diesel motive power should be on the layout and the steamers should chuff and smoke like crazy. The ooh's and ahh's should ring with "I had one of those as a youngster! - I think its still in the attic - I'm going home to take a look!" The scale layout, on the other hand, needs to be the best the best modelers in S scale can muster. It should be a showcase of how good scale modeling can really be in a size that makes the best sense. It should put the best HO models to shame in the amount of detail and prototypical accuracy. There should be no question that this is the scale for the most serious modeler. So lets separately optimize to pull folks from both groups into the Scale! And then for both modules, a display of the equipment available today from our favorite S suppliers should be included. It should be clear to potential newcomers that what they see is possible! Not the result of someones life's worth of collecting. These materials are available TODAY! Just a few ramblings from a confirmed "ESSER"! Walt Jopke > ---------- > From: Arthur Armstrong[SMTP:aarmstro@...] > Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 11:03 AM > To: s-scale@onelist.com > Subject: Re: [S-Scale] PROMOTING S SCALE > > From: Arthur Armstrong <aarmstro@...> > > somewhere in this thread someone said: > > "a really neat tinplate layout could be constructed just using today's > products only. No modeling skills needed -- just buy it and run it! > NJIntl has announced > an S crossing gate which can be motorized. ..." > > At the risk of further alienating more list members I must say that this > kind of display will not - NOT - attract any potential modeling > converts. Since I am a recent convert I may be over-zealous but the > hi-rail train car is not appealing to scale modelers. > > I think one of our major problems is to change the perception that S > scale is Flyer and hi-rail. To attract scale builders we must show > scale potential. - and, I might add - it doesn't require moving trains > to do this. A catalog showing the existence of flex-track, couplers, > and decals plus kits and RTR locomotives will work. > > Art > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com! > If you join ONElist's FRIENDS & FAMILY program. For details, go to > http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4348	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Re: PROMOTING S SCALE

>> "a really neat tinplate layout could be constructed just using today's >> products only. No modeling skills needed -- just buy it and run it! >> NJIntl has announced an S crossing gate which can be motorized. ..." >> At the risk of further alienating more list members I must say that this >> kind of display will not - NOT - attract any potential modeling >> converts. Since I am a recent convert I may be over-zealous but the >> hi-rail train car is not appealing to scale modelers. I'm going to have to disagree with the statement that hi-rail is not appealing to scale modelers. Perhaps this would be a good time to come out of the closet, so to speak, and admit my dark secret. I'm and HO-scale modeler! There I've said it and I'm not going to take it back. Since I was a little kid I've modeled in HO. In fact I was born in 1970 long after Gilbert called it quits. So what in the world is a twenty something HO-Scale guy doing on the S-List? Don't tell my HO friends but I love Flyer. I love Sam the Semaphore Man, the Silver Bullet, and smoke and choo-choo. So much so in fact that I do both S and HO now. My layout room not only contains a HO scale version of the C&NW but also a huge American Flyer floor layout. I find it's a blast to do both. Sometimes I add tiny little windshield wipers to my extremely scale SD7 and sometimes I tear around curves at break neack speeds with my 302 Atlantic. I think Walt Jopke said it best when he said "So lets separately optimize to pull folks from both groups into the Scale!" Walt's right. Let's not let our perceived differences get in the way of promoting a really neat and diverse corner of the model railroad hobby. We have to remember that folks are attracted to the S-gague hobby for many different reasons. We set are selves up for failure when we start putting people in boxes saying only a scale guy would be interested in this or a hi-rail guy would never do that. After all how many of you suspected there was an HO Scale Closet Flyer Operating Freak in your midst? Keeping the S-Faith, Andy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4349	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Speaker exact size replacement for AF 295 et al.

The exact size speaker, 1.75" paper cone is available from Mouser Electronics. They are on-line: www.mouser.com. It's a Kobitone No. 25SP009 Single pieces are $3.15. It is twoce the impedence of the old Gilbert's but that does not matter. You can save the shell from the original and insert this one and every thing will look the same. I've used them in diesels with a 25 mfd capacitor (no resistor) and they work extremely well. --- Nick Colleran BTW Of course, as someone else said if the cone in the original is just torn but all there, it can be repaired with some flexible sealant. I've used black liquid rubber. >Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 06:59:23 -0600 (MDT) > From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> >Subject: A.F. 295 > >I recently acquired an A.F. 295 steam engine with a whistle in the tender. >However, the speaker in the tender is cracked. Does anyone know of a >simple way to repair this or replace it entirely? (The paper is cracked) > >I am also still looking for green 650 & 651 bodies. > >Thanks! > >Mike Leahy (Boulder)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4350	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: NASG TRAVELING DISPLAY

Well now that is what many local clubs are doing with their modular layouts, but all Art is talking about is one 2' x 4' module. So why don't we each build a module and ask the NASG for a banner and literature and promote S gauge. Why pay for shipping. Hey at the next NASG convention we can hook all of our modules together and show the public some S gauge operation. With Greenberg, GATS and all the local shows in maybe ten states at the same time where does the display go first? Even our regional Vice Presidents can't be at several shows at the same time. So each member must take some time to promote NASG through our local clubs or individually. Staying on NASG track Glenn Arthur Armstrong wrote: The kind of display (not layout) that I envision would probably cost less than $100 to build. The problem would not be in finding people to build it or to pay for it - the problem would be in coordinating and paying for the transportation. Here is where I see the NASG, as an organization, taking part. I am also a member of the NASG and agree we need to build membership. I think this is one simple way to make converts from people already experienced in scale modeling. Again, not a layout. A box about 5X2X2 to be shipped by commercial means - and the cost of shipping paid for by the NASG. For example: This weekend there is a club show in San Luis Obispo - a couple of modular layouts, 15 - 20 vendors, hotdogs and pop. No big thing but it will draw all the modelers in the county. I should mention that there are maybe six Sn3 people, and equal number of hirail, and, as far as I can tell, ONE (me) standard gauge S scale modeler. If we had some kind of system in order, I could have ordered the display for this weekend from NASG. NASG would ship me the display and a separate bunch of literature. I would set-up the display on a table, stick some of my cars - perhaps a loco - on the display track and stand around looking like a happy S scale bulder. I could shrug-off any questions about AF and hirail, show curious modelers catalogs like the Scenery Unlimited publication, and direct them to further sources of information (like, maybe, NASG?) After the show I would pack up the display and send it either back to NASG or to the next person wanting to have the display. Thanks, all, for your patience - you are patient? Art Armstrong aarmstro@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4351	From: John Foley	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Promotions

Hi Folks This is John Foley, The old Eastern VP of the NASG and the new Executive VP. Gregg Miller is our new Promotions Chairmen, Gregg is also the President of the Altoona model railroad club. They are the group who did our 95 convention. Great job. I will be working with Gregg on this committee. So to all you S manufacturers and dealers I will be the NASG distribution point for all the literture that you can send that will be sent to clubs who do Shows. Many of you know that I have done lots of train shows on behalf of the NASG and S [All of S] and signed up mamy, many new members. So if you send me these materails they will get in the hands of clubs on a timely basis. We will include NASG applications with these materails. Also Clubs, Please keep in touch with me. Let me know if you do shows, what shows and when. If you club does not have a layout we can get free tables from GATS & Greenbergs to promote S Gauge. I have done this since 95 mostly on my own and it does work. Also I like the Idea of protable NASG S layouts. I think this can be done. As a BOT member I think the most important job is to promote. Protable Layouts WOULD be great to send to clubs or individuals who are willing. So Lets look into it. Bill Furhman [our new Eastern VP] and i did a GATS show in Danbury CT. Bill set up one of the his modules and it got a lot of attention. So here is my motto "LETS DO IT" John Foley 164 W. Railroad ST. Pottsville Pa. 17901 Phone/Fax 570 622-3413 e-mail foley164@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4352	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Re: Promotions

John, Dare I say, "If you build it, they will come?" David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4353	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Promotional displays

Hi S'ers I was kinda lost in a lot of this talk about display modules/layouts. Many people did not seem to be talking about the same thing. I think I got the jest of the discussion, however. I too must confess, when it comes to scale, I do HO. The variety is greater, price much less and I can do much more in a smaller space. My train dollars, however, are spend on S gauge hi rail and tinplate about at a ratio of $1000 to $1 over HO scale. So you see where my real love is. I do have some very close friends into S scale and their work is marvelous. We are continuously looking for a way to include them in our Virginia Central Division of the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers. Trying to run on the same layout has not worked that well, so we are trying to find a way to show the two different types of models in their best light. That may require two different modular layouts. When the ACSGer's do shows we discover we have more than one type of visitor. There are those who look at the old Flyer and reminisce. These are the same people who would enjoy coming to one's house and seeing a static display collection on the shelves. I love that too. We also have those visitors who watch the hi rail and tinplate for a few minutes, then go watch the scale HO and N layouts for their detail. I enjoy that too. Finally, we have those who love the bigger, more colorful trains with lots of operating accessories, smoke, choo-choo, railsounds, and gaudy but colorful Plasticville buildings. Some of these visitors are non-modelers or scalers on a nostalgia kick, but some are young kids who enjoy the toy aspect of trains and accessories more than the scale scene. They love the action more that just "trains running in a circle". Some of these will grow into scalers but others of us will never leave the toys. The point is, we have to give them the knowledge that these toys exist when they are young. After that they can develop their interest as they wish. This was the nitch that Gilbert, Marx and Lionel had in the 50s. Today that nitch is effectively being missed in S gauge. Even in other scales many parents and kids by the cheap Hong Kong junk in Wal-Mart that runs one time around the track then quits. They get frustrated and turn to computer games. Let me get back on track. I would hope our modular club, and all clubs can find a way to promote both tinplate/hi rail and scale, and that whatever this NASG display that is being discussed is, can do the same. But more importantly, to misquote a local movie critic. "Have some fun, run some trains". Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4354	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: scale /hi-rail

Here in Dayton Oh, we have a modular layout using the american models track. From reading on the list,I get the feeling that code 100 is scale. Hi-rail is somewhere way larger, and the AM track is somewhere in the middle of the two. With the AM track we have guys running scale s gauge trains with scale wheelsets and couplers , and we have guys running American Flyer trains at the same time. We also have the capability of running ac/dc by switching power supplies. We have guys doing scale modeling and guys using plasticville. Guess what? We don't have the bickering going on in our group like I see on this list. I am amazed at how negative this hobby seems to be getting the more I read the postings on this list. Anyone who went to the s-fest in Dayton saw our modular layout, only half it's normal size, but it had scale and hi-rail mixed along with some toy aliens. I did not hear one negative comment about the mixing of scale and hi-rail and toy trains. As I have stated on other occasions, they are all toy trains ,scale or not, so get down to the business of having some fun. When people see you can mix the differences, maybe then we can get more people joining the s-gauge ranks. My two cents again! Chris Burger PS For a look at the alien module, check out the latest dispatch, June 99 page 10 look close and you will see the alien

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4355	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: scale /hi-rail

Amen to the following points! We of the RASG have made the same observations. Cbtrainnut@... wrote: > > From: Cbtrainnut@... (1) > we have > guys running scale s gauge trains with scale wheelsets and couplers, > and we have guys running American Flyer trains at the same time. > We also have the capability of running ac/dc by switching power supplies. (2) > I am amazed at how negative this hobby seems to be getting the > more I read the postings on this list. > I did not hear one negative comment about the mixing of scale and > hi-rail and toy trains. > When people see you can mix the differences, maybe then we can get more people > joining the s-gauge ranks. -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4356	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: 99 NASG Convention Pics

Hi Folks, I've added more photos of layout tours from the 1999 NASG Convention to the NASG website. http://trainweb.com/nasg/99convention/index.html There are now photos of layouts by Ken Zieska, Dave Jasper and Joe Herrick. You can take your pick (pardon the pun...). More are coming. Check back soon. Craig S. O'Connell NASG Website Director http://trainweb.com/nasg/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4357	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: scale /hi-rail (this one may take a while)

OK, while everyone continues to flip out over rail sizes let's do some comparison S-scale HO scale equivalent size ( S scale rail size X 87.1/64) 148 109 125 92 100 73 83 61 70 51 As a reference code 83 which is what most N scale track manufacturers use would be equivalent to code 152 in HO. So explain the fuss to me. Why not just use SHS track for both? Now I realize that there are frog issues but there could be an inside track running AF and an outside track running scale. OK there are money issues to be worked out with that. BUT: have you seen the track? IT is as good as anything in any other scale and it will run almost all American Flyer. When you look at it that way, what advantages are left for Flyer (other than being flyer) or American Models Track? I realize that there are guys out there collecting flyer and god bless them but Elvis is dead. He's not making any records and Lionel isn't making any more Flyer so why try to persuade people to get into a hobby where the product source is old and the supplies are dwindling? SHS track is closer to scale than anything available outside of a hobby shop in HO. There are many REALLY nice pieces of HIRAIL out there! Why not focus on that? Most of them are scale like quality. When HO scale guys look at they drool. We are calling it "Hirail" when it is built to scale proportions. They are coming out with almost scale radii turns. They only issue left is yanking off the "grip n go"'s and slapping on KD's We will soon have a dozen plastic RTR diesels! AF AM SHS GP-9 X X GP-20 X GP-35 X SW-1 soon SW-9 X FA-2 X PA-2 X X F-3 very soon FP-7 X RS-3 X Baldwin X X FP-40 X GG-1 X

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4358	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: scale /hi-rail (this one may take a while)

Please also consider that the considerable trend in the hobby is toward more scale and scale like products. Compare a 1999 Classic Toy Trains to a 1965 Model Railroader! While I certainly don't ever foresee the O scale guys giving up the third rail ghost there have been many significant improvements in quality. John Craft

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4359	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: scale /hi-rail-advantage of AF track

Well, the only advantage I personally have for AF track, is I already have a *LOT* of it!!!! The new track does look lovely...... I will expound on the Scale/hi-rail issue later, trust me! Have fun w/ your trainS!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4360	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: scale /hi-rail (this one may take a while)

One more item: I am building my layout with 125 on the mainlines and 100 on the sidings and yards. Now before you proto-64'rs blow an aneurysm please consider that everything is perspective. While the 125 may be slightly larger thatn the C&O mainline in the New River it is only slightly so. The combination of the two will yield a quick contrast, also given that I am using the old Tomalco and shinohara track that has branchline spacings. Right O Way (the new company) sells frog castings with bolt heads on them. It would be much easier though if I had flex track. (Is anyone form New Jersey listening?) I have to leave now to put up risers and attach plywood. John Craft

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4361	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Selling shells

> From: "Bill Roberts" <wrobwrob@...> > > Not selling body shells separately is one of the more annoying policies of American Models. I have never understood it. An earlier post to this list explains why they don't sell shells: "Ron claims he can't make money on shells only. He also claims that the Tin plate people would buy one complete engine and a dozen shells of different paint jobs and keep changing the bodies."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4362	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: Selling shells

Let's see Injection molded shell Cost $10.00 including plastic, artwork painting and packaging Sale price I don't know, $40.00 that would be about right? Now if they buy a dozen shells from a dealer that's $40 x12=$480. less dealers discount 30% which would be 144. That's $336- cost of 120 which is $216. That's more right? Given that 5 of his engine's diework was paid for by sales before the first engine was shipped, it would seem to me that all of that money would be almost pure profit. Now let's multiply that times how many hirailers would do that. John Craft

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4363	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: JPG's

I've created a JPG image file of the American Flyer Lines shield emblem; It's at: http://www.megsinet.net/~imsscott/flyer.jpg And a JPG file of a set of windows for a 589 or 755 Mystic station; which is at: http://www.megsinet.net/~imsscott/windows.jpg The windows should be printed at 300 DPI to print at the correct size. Enjoy!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4364	From: David Golden	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: American Flyer Fan

I have only just begun to get back into this hobby.( I use the term hobby loosely) I am attempting to set up a layout using American Flyer Trains an accessories. From reading messages on the list this last week, I was amazed at the seeming lack of cohesiveness on the list. I thought we were all supposed to be enjoying what we were doing with our trains. Why can't we all just get along. "S" , "Hi Rail" , "Tinplate" , "Whatever". They are all just different parts of the same thing. Hope I do not offend anyone. I enjoy most of the things I am reading, but I joined this list with the hopes of picking up some tips and techniques about my train set, not get into a politcal argument about the virtues of one type or the other. Dave Golden

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4365	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer Fan

David Golden wrote: > > From: David Golden <dgolden@...> > > I have only just begun to get back into this hobby.( I use the term hobby > loosely) I am attempting to set up a layout using American Flyer Trains an > accessories. From reading messages on the list this last week, I was amazed > at the seeming lack of cohesiveness on the list. > I thought we were all supposed to be enjoying what we were doing with our > trains. Why can't we all just get along. "S" , "Hi Rail" , "Tinplate" , > "Whatever". They are all just different parts of the same thing. > Hope I do not offend anyone. I enjoy most of the things I am reading, but I > joined this list with the hopes of picking up some tips and techniques > about my train set, not get into a politcal argument about the virtues of > one type or the other. > Dave Golden > I agree 100% with Dave Golden.. > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4366	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Layout Photos

I just enjoyed the photos that Terry Harrison took at Ken Zieska's, Dave Jasper's and Joe Herrick's Layouts. You must see these pictures. http://trainweb.com/nasg/99convention/index.html Thanks guys for sharing your creations. Thanks Craig & Terry. I wonder what the 'HO'-heads would think of these layouts. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4367	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Early '60's Plymouth

As advertised on NASCAR racing, Racing Champions has #43 Richard Petty cars in a wide variety of years. I picked up 1962, 1963, and 1964 at Target for $3 each ($4 at K-Mart). Some new paint and I will have some added variety for my "typical 1965 main street USA". Every so often people tell me that they cannot find the vehicles that I report seeing. If you want me to look for something for you, tell me what, and send me a deposit for purchase and shipping. I'll buy it when I see it. I sometimes see vehicles that were issued 1-2 years ago, for instance I saw the '58 Ford Ranchero this summer. Today I saw '65 Ford PU, '66 GTO, '57 Buick Century, plus several late '60's cars. I also saw a nice looking '53 Chev in a Hot Wheels collector pack. I'll be watching for that one to show up at a civilized price. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.localnet.com/~dbard/ ________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4368	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer Fan

Not to worry Dave. I'm not a "hobbyist" either, but since I unpacked the American Flyer trains of my youth, and set them up, I've been engaged by this list. You'll have a good time in here; don't worry about the latest exchange of "purpose of the list." Have fun! What are you running there? Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > -----Original Message----- > From: David Golden [mailto:dgolden@...] > Sent: Saturday, August 07, 1999 4:55 PM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] American Flyer Fan > > > From: David Golden <dgolden@...> > > I have only just begun to get back into this hobby.( I use the term hobby > loosely) I am attempting to set up a layout using American Flyer > Trains an > accessories. From reading messages on the list this last week, I > was amazed > at the seeming lack of cohesiveness on the list. > I thought we were all supposed to be enjoying what we were doing with our > trains. Why can't we all just get along. "S" , "Hi Rail" , "Tinplate" , > "Whatever". They are all just different parts of the same thing. > Hope I do not offend anyone. I enjoy most of the things I am > reading, but I > joined this list with the hopes of picking up some tips and techniques > about my train set, not get into a politcal argument about the virtues of > one type or the other. > Dave Golden > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4369	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Action Car!

Hello folks, I have a quick question...I have an American Flyer car carrier..you push a button and this plate flips the car off the transporter....thru moving several times...I have lost that old blue car....does anyone have one to sell or a place to purchase one...thanks in advance ....Jeff -

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4370	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Action Car!

A car on the vehicle unloading car would have been the Manoil 707 sedan. This is a diecast car with the number cast into the car inside. If you don't get any offers from this list, these and the other Flyer vehicle loads are commonly available at flea markets, toy shows, and train shows. The condition can vary widely, and prices tend to be higher at train shows if the dealer recognizes that he has an AF load. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4371	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/7/1999
Subject: Re: Selling shells

At 1:20 PM 8/7/99, Scott Holm wrote: >An earlier post to this list explains why they don't sell shells: > >"Ron claims he can't make money on shells only. He also claims that the >Tin plate people would buy one complete engine and a dozen >shells of different paint jobs and keep changing the bodies." How does this apply to undecorated shells that people would purchase for kitbashing projects? Making a profit or not depends on how it is priced. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4372	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: Selling shells

Dear Scott, I know it is the policy of the comnpany that make our trains (and some for American Models) not to sell decorated assembled shells. When we first started negotiations on the PS-2 (in 1993 I think), I had asked about bring some of the run as undec kits and was wondering about the price break. I was told same price, so all of our udecs became "unlettered" and painted grey (for covered hoppers, b.c red for boxcars and black for SW-9's) and assembled. We do have a few painted and lettered SW-9 bodies (no cabs) for replacement purposes. Don Thompson Lee Johnson wrote: > From: leemax@... (Lee Johnson) > > At 1:20 PM 8/7/99, Scott Holm wrote: > > >An earlier post to this list explains why they don't sell shells: > > > >"Ron claims he can't make money on shells only. He also claims that the > >Tin plate people would buy one complete engine and a dozen > >shells of different paint jobs and keep changing the bodies." > > How does this apply to undecorated shells that people would purchase for > kitbashing projects? Making a profit or not depends on how it is priced. > > Lee -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4373	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: Selling shells

> >An earlier post to this list explains why they don't sell shells: > > > > > >"Ron claims he can't make money on shells only. He also claims that the > > >Tin plate people would buy one complete engine and a dozen > > >shells of different paint jobs and keep changing the bodies." > > > >When Ron told me this his models were not comming out of main land China. > But were being produced in Taiwan. I talked with the Company at a Plastic > show in Chicsgo. They would do any thing you wanted. It is to bad that the > producer in China "wags the dog". Larry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4374	From: kelvin white	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Early '60's Plymouth

In message <19990807.200956.20479.1.mhrreast@...>, mhrreast@... writes >From: mhrreast@... > Hi Ted It was good to meet you at Ken's picnic - gee it was hot - please keep posting your messages - It is useful to know what's out there - I picked up a dozen cars and trucks on this visit and yes _I've run out of road space - Im going to have to model a used car lot - complete with bunting....Now a days they seen to want to call them 'previously owned' cars has PC gone too far... >As advertised on NASCAR racing, Racing >Champions has #43 Richard Petty cars >in a wide variety of years. I picked >up 1962, 1963, and 1964 at Target for >$3 each ($4 at K-Mart). Some new paint >and I will have some added variety for >my "typical 1965 main street USA". > >Every so often people tell me that they >cannot find the vehicles that I report >seeing. If you want me to look for >something for you, tell me what, and >send me a deposit for purchase and >shipping. I've used Ted's 'service' - its to be recommended. -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4375	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: -highrail

<<Elvis is dead. He's not making any records and Lionel isn't making any more Flyer so why try to persuade people to get into a hobby where the product source is old and the supplies are dwindling? SHS track is closer to scale than anything available outside of a hobby shop in HO. There are many REALLY nice pieces of HIRAIL out there! Why not focus on that? Most of them are scale like quality.>> I can't believe I'm saying this...........but 5+ years ago, you'd have seen very little non-AF in my train room, or on my layout.......just a few pieces that I found particularly interesting and not available in AF. How times change! During the '98 convention, when the layout tour bus visited my place, I realized (and it was totally unintentional) that I didn't have a single piece of AF operating on the layout !!!! Everything running was either AM, SHS, or Crown. And----as little "playing" as I have time to do on the layout today, that's still the case. If someone is visiting, especially for the first time, that's the stuff I run because of its quality, features( e.g, sound), and availability today! The AF sits on the shelves, for the eyes to feast. If Lionel never makes another piece of AF, there are a LOT of AF collectors, myself included, who really won't shed a tear. Better to make nothing than to keep gouging us with limited repaints and nothing new to speak of! The SD-40 fiasco sealed their verdict! NOW ON THE OTHER HAND............should someone new take over the AF name and production............ maybe Elvis will return from the hereafter! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4376	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: -highrail

In a message dated 8/8/99 9:04:00, PortLines@... wrote: <<The AF sits on the shelves, for the eyes to feast.>> Well, to each their own. I still love operating my vintage Gilbert. An angle that is sometimes missed is that the toys can be collected, operated, maintained, and thought of fondly as the antique toys that they are. A SIT Flyer steamer is still a joy to behold. There is still nothing like it in all of Toy Traindom. And, the accessories provide a 'hit' for the visitors that nothing else does. In this context, what Lionel does or does not do is rather secondary, much in the sense that one loves Ives, or Bing, or Carlisle and Finch for the intrinsically fine operating artifacts that they are. Don't get me wrong. I have and enjoy some of the new stuff (AM, SHS, etc.), too, but there is something a bit 'subdued' about it. And remember, they are ALL toys no matter what the height of the rails is. Take it for what its worth. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4377	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Scene: A Cafe in Paris

In a time not so long ago, along the Rue Madelaine, in a little Bistro, some art critics and journalists were engaged in a heated debate. "But, Pointalism is all about the technique itself, it is not a representation of reality," bellowed Jacques. "The Photo-Realists on the other hand, capture an essential moment in time." "Then why not just make a stupid photograph?" screamed Gregoire in response. "Photo-Realism is too real. Who cares about that one moment, anyway? Life is filled with a million moments. It is the Impressionists who give us the essence of life in their times, without pointing to one particular minute and saying, 'This is IT!' " Paul thought a moment, then replied, "If it is impressions you want, then look to the Cubists, who, by framing everything within a device, create a microcosm of their times." "Baah!" snorted Gregoire, "You call that art? Leetle squares? Take them and your precious Dadaists and get out of Paris! They are a disgrace to the town that gave us Monet!" And, so it goes, dear friends. The bistro is still there, only now it is one of those chi-chi internet cafes. You can join the ongoing argument from the comfort of your Web-TV and easy-chair. There is still no consensus over art and no one expects one soon. Au Revoir, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4378	From: Scott Brown	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 330

I agree with Dave Golden when he says "Hope I do not offend anyone. I enjoy most of the things I am reading, but I joined this list with the hopes of picking up some tips and techniques about my train set, not get into a politcal argument about the virtues of one type or the other. Personally I don't care if I offend anyone or not. I'm sick to death of all this crap about -my train is better than your train- If this is S gauge, then I'm going to continue to buy Williams O gauge and sell off all my S stuff. I don't hear the O gauge guys crying like you guys. Some of you even went the extra mile to jump on and criticize the man who gave you a magazine for so many years and has now called it quits. You don't even support each other. By the way RRDART, Elvis may be dead, but he still sells a hell of alot of records and memorabilia, and people flock in droves to his mansion. This is supposed to be a FUN hobby, but many of you on this list are turning it into something different and very frustrating. . Maybe you should all go start a new list and call it "S-whine" I'm sure someone can help you start a magazine to go with it. You can call it "Cheese S-wiz" That way you can have some cheese with that whine. Stop it and grown the heck up !!!!! Otherwise many of us , young and old will turn our backs on an otherwise great set of trains. Scott Brown sbrown@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4379	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: RBubeck

Amen, brother, you hit the nail on the head. There isn't a RIGHT or WRONG scale, manufacturer, or system. They're all toy trains. Quit the infighting. There is plenty of scope in this hobby for every taste. The realism of s-scale is commendable-but before anyone gets too cocky about that, he'd better check out some of the two-rail 0 scale layouts and equipment out there. Awesome. Humbling. Toy trains, nonetheless.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4380	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 330

Scott, I agree with what you say, except for O Gaugers/Scalers not having any problems and complainers. They have the dreaded inside third rail, two rail, tinplate, hi-rail,scale, semi-scale, 027 scale, Rail-King scale, Proto 48(which includes the correct rail gauge, not 1 1/4") and the ever popular Q scale( 17/64" = 1', the correct scale for 1 1/4" gauge). As Moe Berk would say"just for the fun of it"! Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4381	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 330

Scott Brown You have hit the nail on the head. The average mental age of the american adult is 13 years and I think most of them are in S scale. It is a lot of little clicks. Larry Scott Brown wrote: > From: Scott Brown <sbrown@...> > > I agree with Dave Golden when he says "Hope I do not offend > anyone. I enjoy most of the things I am reading, but I > joined this list with the hopes of picking up some tips and > techniques > about my train set, not get into a politcal argument about > the virtues of > one type or the other. > > Personally I don't care if I offend anyone or not. I'm sick > to death of all this crap about -my train is better than > your train- If this is S gauge, then I'm going to continue > to buy Williams O gauge and sell off all my S stuff. I don't > hear the O gauge guys crying like you guys. Some of you even > went the extra mile to jump on and criticize the man who > gave you a magazine for so many years and has now called it > quits. You don't even support each other. By the way RRDART, > Elvis may be dead, but he still sells a hell of alot of > records and memorabilia, and people flock in droves to his > mansion. > This is supposed to be a FUN hobby, but many of you on this > list are turning it into something different and very > frustrating. . Maybe you should all go start a new list and > call it "S-whine" I'm sure someone can help you start a > magazine to go with it. You can call it "Cheese S-wiz" > That way you can have some cheese with that whine. > Stop it and grown the heck up !!!!! Otherwise many of us , > young and old will turn our backs on an otherwise great set > of trains. > > Scott Brown > sbrown@... > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Transfer your big list to ONElist and earn $500! > For program details, go to > http://www.onelist.com/info/biglistbon_intro.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4382	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Re: Scene: Three gentlemen (?)

An Itallian, a Frenchman and a Model Railroader meet and discuss life. Conversation turns to Mistresses. The Itallian says, "Ah, nothing like it; the intrigue, the danger, the excitement! Frenchman says, "Ah no, it is the romance, amour!" The Model Railroader says, "It's really neat, my wife thinks I'm with Her, my Mistress thinks I'm with my Wife, and I can spend all night on the layout!" S' David D. (with Linda's permission!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4383	From: Phil A Randall	Date: 8/6/1999
Subject: Flyer trucks

Hello: I have 4 pair of AM Flyer Freight car trucks, 1 box car floor with trucks, 4 SHS wheel sets, and 2 SHS Flyer couplers to trade or sell to someone. I have no use for them. Anybody want them? lets talk. Phil Randall ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4384	From: Richard	Date: 8/8/1999
Subject: Stealth

Getting expoSure for "S" with press space in the mags will only be accomplished to any large degree by stealth. Mags are interested on ly in good modelling and good ideas.. I could be cynical and think that an article using product from a major advertiser might get preference..but that doesn' t really happen now..does it?? A good article using techniques of use across the scales will get page-space. By using a "S" scale model as the platform for the modelling project , the subject of the article, will do more so showcase the scale than hammering people heads saying please print this ..its :S: scale..take pity on us..ppprreeeaassse !!! Sell the idea first, they'll see its "S"..they'll seei there and there...see it at a train show...they'll get bitten. Be smart with subject choice..heres a freebie..I am veryintersted in putting together a cable laying train..they ply the rails of many roads laying fibre cable...the SPrint and Qwest outfits come to mind....they use an older GP9...ex paducah ithink with special cable carrying cars and a Caboose..it was the caboose that got me thinking in the first place..not too many calls for running a caboose on a modern era layout..so here was one. Now a rticle based on this train goes across the scales...its the subject that is interesting...Now of course I was going to use an AM GP9 , AM Bay windown caboose and some kitbashed flats and whatever...still waiting to get more info on these trains ( SO a BIG plee for more help..I digress) . Now heres a train , nicely detailed and weathered (one day) showcasing "S"..but HOers and Ners, Oers and Garden guys can all get the required basic building blocks in their own scale...but the Magazine prints pictures of "S"..people hear about "S"..another little bit of "S" for their psyche to store away.. Subjugation by Stealth, thats my impression....then if all else fails use the hammer!! >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4385	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Dave Goldens' Message

Hi Dave; Welcome to the list. Don't get discouraged just yet Dave! The digest is a wonderful cornucopia of thoughts, ideas and information along with some personal ideas and thoughts along the way. Just do what I do and read the stuff you find useful and trash the rest...one man's opinion.....you know the rest. I have found some very helpful information along the way since I started reading the Digest about 9 months ago. I learned what paint to use for my restoration of two Flyer locos, how to fix my SIT unit and some neat track cleaning tips just to name a few...so hang in there and if we as a group can be of any help...just ask.S Gauge is S Gauge no matter the height of the flanges and rails! Regard'S' Al Babbitt-Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers-NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4386	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: transformers

I run my trains with a 15B and 16B. I have found it helpful to: 1) replace the spring washers (6-legged) that keep the turret firm, apply a little teflon grease to the flat washers for glide. 2) inspect and replace the u-bolt (handle connects to this) nuts and/or replace (4x40), use a small lock washer, put a dab of ZapAGap on the end of the bolt when your done. 3) inspect the roller, if you buy a replacement, mount it on a Dremel mandrel, spins at low/med speeds on an angle against 400 grit to get a bevel on it. The pin that comes with most is smaller diameter than stock but works, cut it to size, and flatten the end in a vise to keep it from backing out. 4) use a soft toothbrush on the windings to remove carbon build up, sweep away. 5) Inspect wires. 6) close the case Have fun, run your trains. New, old, scale, hi-rail, ti plate, doesn't matter.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4387	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Flyer Questions

I've come across an S-gauge hopper that I'm hoping some one on the list can help me identify. It's the standard AFL three bay hopper with the Gilbert marking on the inside of the hopper that has been relettered for the "Fall S Fest". Painted red, someone has done a very good job decaling it for the "1st Annual Fall S Fest of 1976, BSG, CASG" Does this have any value to any one? Otherwise I'm going to repaint it. Also does anyone have a #21085 plastic boiler that they don't need? I've got one that has every single screw mount stripped or broken off. While I'm making my request I'm also looking for cheap switch controllers, switches (manual and remote) and track. One last question: I need decals for a S-scale C&NW Alco from the 1960's. Anybody know where I can get them? Keeping the S-faith, Andrew McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4388	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Interview with Maddox @ L....

Here is a link folks to a recent interview with the new CEO at L. At the bottom is a link for asking questions..... Like whats up with the AF line!!!!! <A HREF="http://www.tmbooks-video.com/ttr-line.htm">Toy Train Revue On-line</A> In case if doesn't follow correctly.... http://www.tmbooks-video.com/ttr-line.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4389	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: shells for trade

I have an AM FA2 cab and booster and RS3, all three in exc condition GN paint. I'd be happy to trade shells with anyone you know for CP FAs and a C&NW RS3 (or undec). Given how detailed and intricate the GN scheme is (yellow, orange and Pullman green) I'd hate to strip 'em and paint 'em if someone really wants them in GN paint. Contact me off-list, of course. I'd hate to bog down the merry-go-round discussion about rail weights and hi-rail vs scale (um, didn't we see this movie already, Bucky?) Take care, Paul Schneider San Francisco, CA _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4390	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Re: Scale/hirail/AF/narrow/proto/etc.

Well, all this ranting and raving about what kind of trains will attract a larger population to S gauge has caused me to stop and think about my interests and tolerances. You will note that I haven't jumped in right away to the foray, so I hope this long-debated, and more carefully written response will be more thought-provoking than my usual posts. My other passion has been antique automobiles (and my livelihood too). Now I'm not talking about 30 year-old cars (those are my Modern everyday cars!), but pre-WW2 stuff. And not Big Wheels, flame paint-jobs, lowered tops, etc. etc. I RESTORE cars, not modify them. I enjoy them for what I think they are, pieces of our technological history. Oh, gee, divisions here, there are different views of what to do with an "old car!" And I will admit, as clever as some of these modifiers are, I CAN'T STAND THEM!! Ooops, was that a bit strong? So you rarely see me at something like "Hot August Nights" or "Cruise Night.". Hmm, guess I am a bit intolerant! So where does this fit in with S gauge? Well, I'm one of the first to say, "We're all in this together!" So why can I be tolerant here and not there? And gee, I've modified some AF too (am I a hot-rodder?). Uh oh, mid-life crisis here! Well, actually the two comparisons are mostly apples and oranges. The true scaler doesn't even use any AF stuff; the only connecting item is the relative size of everything (unlike the hot-rodder who takes original stuff and changes it to suit his/her purposes). So why should we stay together? And who is better? Well, the last question is very easy for me to answer, without doubt in my mind--NO ONE IS BETTER!! We're just different, and some are VERY talented! (I think we can all admire that talent!) But what about the first question? Are we destined to stay together? Like the scale modeler whose response is "I don't know anything about AF," I too could say "I don't know anything about Scale." But that's not true! I know it's out there, and that there are some wonderful items available, and I do know the names of some of the suppliers. Gee, why is that? Because I'm in S, and so are they, and *sometimes* their stuff is useful to me, and because I want to know what is going on in "my size" trains. So my response would be, "Well I don't model scale, BUT there is some great stuff available, here's the URL for Paul's site, and I'm sure that someone there will be very helpful answering your questions!" What's this about? RECRUITMENT!! Well, and courtesy too, something often missing in today's society. So far I've stayed away from the "AF vs Scale will attract the most/best audience " debate. That's because I think that debate is a fallacy. Each will attract a number of people, for very different reasons. They both fill their respective niches AND there is a lot of cross-linking through these niches! I do believe that for little Johnny and Mary, something with the ruggedness of AF is important for them to play with, so maybe they will develop a continuing interest in S throughout their lives. I think this niche may always exist, and there are some clever ways to increase this niche, like the Christmas town scenes, but this gets me into the "What-to-Produce" argument, which I'm not going to attend in this posting. What I'm hoping we will all do is look at ourselves and try to figure out why we think "I'm superior!" or "I'm above all that!" or even "I'm not good enough for that!" Then think about what is really important for each of us: having fun with our S sized trains! And for me, at least, a growing part of that is the fellowship I find with these electronic train groups. That's interesting, I'm not really a "joining" type of guy, must be more mid-life crisis! By the way, years ago it was predicted that the Model T clubs would dwindle down to nothing, and now the clubs are attracting younger people who were never around Ts while they were growing up. We haven't figured this one out yet either (and I'm one of the those "younger" ones, at least I like to think I am!), so don't think we *know* what will happen in S as we all age either! Very S'incerely, David Dewey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4391	From: Richard	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Lyingnel Interview

Interesting...mainly for its content...or rather that which wasn't there!! Either it was remiss of the interviewer, or simply not important enough to ask.....saw no mention of Flyer...let alone its future...Maddox did not profer informationon the subject. THAT IS THE NEW CULURE!! hope I'm wrong...anyone know the interviewer...ask him whether AF was even touched upon. >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4392	From: Richard	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: snail mail

Anyone else finding this list has slowed ??? >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4393	From: The Reis'	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Extra Items

I have a number of bound (full year) editions of Classic Toy trains That I no longer need If someone is interested in making an offer. I also have a large number of Racing Champions Mint cars both in and out of the packages ( original package and box type, not latest) along with a number Matchbox "premiere" any of which I would sell for basically store price plus shipping. Thirdly I have an "American Flyer Plus" repair manual This is the one that is about 5 inches thick of 2 sided copies of all the repair sheets. I bought this for $70 a couple years ago before realizing it was the same as another I already had. I would let it go for that plus shipping. I also have an original copy of " The man who lives in paradise" I will part with. Sorry if I offended anyone for offering these things over this group but I figured I would give the real S guys a chance prior to putting it on Ebay . Flame me for that if you like. Please send any responses off list. I like the one combined list also But I can subscribe to another one just as easily if makes someone happy not to delete as often. Lets see now......I have the Great Northern list, The Diecast Toys list, The Ford Trucks list, The S trains list.......... Eric Reis Kenmore (Seattle), WA. TCA (87) , NASG (81), AFCC

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4394	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/9/1999
Subject: Letters to Big L

Hi all, Well, I sent my posting to them back on July 26, and so far no response, not even the usual standard one. Maybe I was too critical, you decide! Here's what I posted: Hello, I am noticing, with disappointment, a nearly complete lack of American Flyer offerings. With the S gauge market showing very healthy signs of growth (Some traditional manufacturer's have recently announced some S offerings) this seems odd. I realize some of your recent production has not sold well, but this is not, as I see it, attributable to the S market, but to your choices of production. I wish to say this kindly, as constructive criticism; there has been some rather unimaginative selections and bad finishing choices recently. I am not your "usual" hobbiest purchaser; I have operated and repaired S equipment actively for most of my life, I hold a degree in Industrial Arts, and do understand much of the manufacturing process, and I am in contact with the railfain/rail modeling community through my museum work. The word in the S community is that "Lionel doesn't understand the S market". Actually, since it is only a small niche of your product line, that is understandable, even forgivable. BUT, the American Flyer name is a giant in the S community, so whatever you do with it, has major repercussions to that group. I believe the secondary S market shows that there is still a strong demand for certain American Flyer items; and that, given some different finishes and "tune-ups," most of the old tooling still has a marketable future for some time. Just one example would be the Sawmill. The present secondary market is, at times, almost double the original list price. Demand for this item comes from the entire toy train community too! I do hope you give the American Flyer line a careful consideration, you may find a real gem there. Sincerely, David Dewey 3435 Myers Street Oroville, CA 95966 530-534-3676

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4395	From: Richard	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: surveys

Thanks everyone who filled in a survey form either at the Shows or on-line.. A very big thankyou to John Foley (does this man never tire) Should you still have any after thoughts or like to get a form...then please contact me off the list at richard_snook@... It is the intention to keep this ideas for product continually live and as such input is always welcome. >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4396	From: Richard	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Magazine..numbers??

Got to thinking With the recent guff about which magazine or other (personally, horses for courses, lets try all , see who bites) ...what are the runs for the following mags 1) MRer 2) RMC 3) MRing 4) RMJ 5)MM 6) S Gaugian 7) NGSG ?? and any others I've forgotten.....just curious >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4397	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: transformers- zap zap!

OK how does one 'solve' the problem of a current leak that seemed so common in 'old' metal cased transformers, so that U got a shock when U touched the metal case or perhaps another metal part of it? A vendor said that post 1970 units dont have that problem. Due to startup voltage, has anyone noticed a difference between AF and Lionel (or maybe MRC?). Apologies for such a basic question- no cab control here! L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4398	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: More Musings on the Debate

I, like David Dewey and many others on this list, am a tinplater at heart. I love to repair and operate American Flyer trains. I gravitate towards the mechanical side of things, and thus I love Gilbert's accessories. I see at least seven different ways to enjoy S gauge trains, and I appreciate all of them. First, there are the set them up and run them types. These are the true tinplaters. There is a lot of me in this camp. That is why I like AF, and Plasticville. They are so easy to set up and operate reliably. Stereotype: people who like to play with trains. This is also an easy entry level for newcomers to trains, especially younger train enthusiasts because of the ready-to-run (RTR) aspect. These persons are true get 'em out and operate enthusiasts. Second, there are hi-railers. I find myself moving to this camp more and more. This is spurred by both some very nice present offerings (e.g., SHS and Crown) as well as a desire on my part to get a little more realism into my trains with a minimum of skills and effort. This is where our S gauge modules for the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers (ACSG) fit as, although we use AF track, there is an intent to do much more than simply "nail the track down and run the trains." Stereotype: people without artistic skills or rivet-counter mentality, but who want a little of this in their trains with a minimum of effort. These people probably, like me, began as strictly RTR types. They may be more mechanically inclined. Third, there are the scale converters. These people generally do not scratch build, but modify existing equipment to make it more like "the real thing." These people have much more artistic ability than I do, but are not necessarily artisans. Stereotype: a logical progression for tinplaters with artisitc ability or an entry level for some modelers from other scales. Requires a higher skills level in craftsmanship than the previous two types. Fourth, there are the scratch builders. These people are true artisans. They have the talent and enjoy making something of nothing. Some of these persons may begin with crude models and never develop further, while others take this to the extreme. Stereotype: model craftsmen, especially those who relish something different (e.g., SN3). Some of these persons come from the scale converter ranks when they cannot locate what they need to create a new piece. These people have skills I can only dream about. Fifth, there are the rivet counters. Some of these people are more interested in looks than in running capability. They emphasize fidelity to looks over performance. Some scratch builders are also rivet counters, but other rivet counters a more like railroad historians. Stereotype: a magnifying glass lying beside the model. Next, there are the railroad buffs. These people get off on modelling actual railroad operations. Their emphasis is on using the equipment to simulate reality. They often have point-to-point layouts, run a fast clock operations, and other operational minutia that many cannot appreciate. Stereotype: hand held remote with a schedule to keep. Finally, there are the scene modelers. These are the people who construct diaramas. I do not consider these people to be railroaders, but instead modelers who happen to use railroads as the focus for their modeling. Stereotype: a unpowered trackage scene. Are these the only camps? Probably not. Are they necessarily distinct? Definitely not! Can you do more than one? Of course. Do they apply to other scales? Yes, but maybe not as much as in a thin market scale. Can I, personally, do all of these? No. Do I want to do all of these? No. I am limited by talents (I am much more mechanical than artistic--if at all artistic), time, and interests. In my third module for ACSG I actually have gotten so bold as to create a river scene, with an AF double trusss bridge, ravine, and river and road below. It is not quite finished, but the landscaping is now complete, the river and roadway are painted, and I am about to lay the "water" this weekend. Is one of these camps more desireable? Yes, but only in the eyes of the beholder. Do what you like. Do what you enjoy. Why spend your time building scenery if you most enjoy running trains? Why spend time running trains if you like the complete model layout? Now I know that I have probably offended everyone by this time, so go ahead and flame away. However, my message was that we are all enjoying absolutely wonderful aspects of this hobby. If it is no longer an enjoyable hobby for you, then maybe you need to reconsider your priorities. Otherwise, we need to be tolerant of the talent, skills, and desires of each other. We are much stronger together than separate. S-Helper (and others) could not survive if they appealed to only one of the above groups. So, let's get out there and operate our trains, build more scenery, add more rivets, or whatever you enjoy (i.e., get satisfaction out of doing) the most! Joe Haenn === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4399	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 332

In a message dated 8/10/99 5:48:22 AM Mountain Daylight Time, David Dewey writes, > My other passion has been antique automobiles (and my livelihood too). David, Did you find my 1941 Mercury coupe that I bought in 1954 for $50? It was my first car and I want it back. I have found the S-Gauge trains that My cousin had as a kid and that I got to play with. My folks could only afford Marx for me. Now he has no trains and I have a house full of American Flyer. Strange what our youthful memories do to us isn't it? Amen to your statements regarding S-gauge as a whole. Jess Bennett in Northern Idaho has one of the most magnificent S-Scale layouts in the history of the civilized world and I admire it to no end. However it has been in the making since the early seventies with hand cut and hand laid ties, bridges, rails, etc. etc. etc. That is just too much love of hobby for a person like myself that wants to get the layout up and Flyer smoke going around it. I appreciate what the scale folks do and I love good "toy train" layouts too. Guess I see the differences like one sees cars. There are Cadillacs and there are Fords. And they have both made GOOD cars. Steve Blackburn Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers... Boise, Idaho TCA - NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4400	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: repowering

I'm advised that S Gaugian once carried an article about re-powering a Flyer steam loco with a 28x40 can motor. Also that AF diesels can be re-powered with 18x36 motors. Can anyone enlarge on this infomation? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4401	From: Bill Clark	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: repowering

Hi Joe, I have a scanned copy of the article that I can send you if you want. It's 3 PCXs about 500k total, or a 178k zip file. Take your choice. I've done several steamers using this method. By the way, NWSL is almost out of 28x40 motors, so you might want to order one asap. I have no info on diesels. Bill At 10:12 AM 08/10/1999 -0600, you wrote: >From: sigma@... > >I'm advised that S Gaugian once carried an article about re-powering a >Flyer steam loco with a 28x40 can motor. Also that AF diesels can be >re-powered with 18x36 motors. Can anyone enlarge on this infomation? >Joe Pereira > > email: sigma@... > > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >ONElist: the best place to EXPLORE topics, SHARE ideas, and >CONNECT to people with the same interests. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4402	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Rehostats

Hi Guy"S": Anything electronic can get hot, - - If the values are wrong. I have been using rehostats for about 35 + years. One with the proper values will get a little bit warm. Meaning - you won't get burned touching it. Some rehostats work better than a train transformer voltage selector. A variable resistor & rehostat can look alike except for size. The volume control in a radio is a variable resistor. A rehostat looks the same but is 10 times bigger. Both come with different size windings effecting the values. So for those of you that wonder where my info comes from. My family has a number of people into ham radio operators from way way back. TV / radio (Tube) repair family members. And me?. I have used all kinds of techniques in Model railroading. The old ways (as opposed to closed circuit stuff) can be repaired at the drop of a hat, most of the time , without leaving the house. Perhaps I should mention I made items for the military (ours). I repaired radios for a radio mfg. Over a hundred a day. I built mother boards for IBM computers. So I just might have a good working knoledge of electronics adaptable to model railroading. For instance; To save a lot of wire, I use just one for all of the lights in my track switches. Same for the common wire to everthing else. I will run the wire to the item and continue it to the other items. The only wire neede to keep comeing from your control panel is the wire to turn things off and on. The common wire needs to be run out only once the length of layout. Then you run one wire from this to each accessory. Now - - someone is going to say "You can't do this, the wire will get hot". True if you use wire provided for your trains when you bought it. Not a safe wire. I throw them out. I use a 16 guage wire (18 will do) for the common wire. how tough is this wire? I run an air conditioner, a big train transformer, a fan and an amplifier off of one wire, and it (the wire) doesn't even get warm. Yes, I am using a 15 amp fuse. What makes some wires get hot then. Usualy high rated items (amps) aggravated by bad electrical connections. What causes bad electrical connections? 1. wires twisted together lose a clean connection after a while. 2. Crimped connectors are OK, if done properly. 3. loose / sloppy plugs. 4. loose electrical screws. 5. frayed wires from above said screws about to touch another wire. 6. wires with a nick in the copper. 7. bare wire is a BIG - NO NO. Thems dat dissagree with me, have a fire extinguisher handy and have an elect tri shun on your payroll. Joining wires? solder them. wrap with electricians tape or use a wire nut. Make sure plugs are firm, Make sure screws are tight. Want to be extra safe? use an inline fuse for all electical items. values vary from item to item. Save youself grief, wire your layout properly, and happy railroading. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4403	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Mid Atlantic train shops

I will be taking a quick trip to Richmond, Va, and wonder if anyone has any suggestions of train shops to visit between Baltimore and Richmond. My main interest is in Flyer. Thanks, Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4404	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: rheostats

Back to the glory days of tinplate-head for a Lionel Pre-war dealer and get a #95, or any other, for around $5. Yes, boys and girls, it does have a big wad of asbestos in it. DON'T WORRY-if you don't play with the asbestos, it can't harm you-only when particles are loose in the air. This nifty little item is custom engineered for toy train voltage and really gets visitors asking "What the hell is THAT??" This effect can be increased dramatically if you are also using a Gilbert Rectifier for DC voltage.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4405	From: Dave Ewing	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: More Musings on the Debate

Hey Joe. How about the collectors. No operation No scenery No play Just shelves of trains. Then there is the want to bees with the trains in the attic all boxed up waiting for the big day. Just thinking about your post Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4406	From: Dennis Back	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: rheostats/ pic. of "L" #95

--- Toyguy5344@... wrote: > Lionel Pre-war #95, or any other, for around $5. > and really gets visitors asking "What > the hell is THAT??" This effect can be increased > dramatically if you are also > using a Gilbert Rectifier for DC voltage. Does anyone know where I can find a picture of the "L" Pre-war #95 on the internet? A web site please? John...you've got me curious now. Thanks, Dennis Miami _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4407	From: John Foley	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Brass for sale

>Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:18:19 -0700 >To: S-Scale >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: Brass for sale > >Hi Folks > > 1. River Rasin Models GPEX Pfaudler Milk Car > 40'-6". Factory Painted > NO DECALS > $160 Shipping Included > > John Foley > 164 W Railroad St. > Pottsville Pa. 17901 > Phone/Fax 570 622-3413 > email foley164@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4408	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Mystic Station

Hi folks, I have a question....I thought all "Mystic Stations" were talking stations.....I saw one today with only the light installed and no turntable or reproducer...from the factory...does anyone one know what a fair price would be on this unit...the paint seemed nice ...few scratches...it did have all the windows and doors....I would appreciate your thoughts...Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4409	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: transformers- zap zap!

Well, I don't know if there is a specific solution to the problem, but here's what I would do. Replace the cord with a 3-wire cord and a 3-pronged plug. Connect the ground wire of the cord to the case with a solid mechanical connection (i.e. drill a hole in the case, scrape the paint off in the area and use a bolt and nut to connect the ground wire.) Then the plug should be connected to a properly wired, grounded 3-hole outlet. what this does is make the case equal to the ground so if you are grounded there will be no potential difference between you and the case and therefore, no shock. Modern appliances are insulated so that the case is not connected to any of the powered guts, which makes 3-pronged plugs unnecessary. ----- Original Message ----- From: <LARSPAINTR@...> To: <S-Trains@onelist.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 7:09 AM Subject: [S-Trains] transformers- zap zap! > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > OK how does one 'solve' the problem of a current leak that seemed so common > in 'old' metal cased transformers, so that U got a shock when U touched the > metal case or perhaps another metal part of it? > A vendor said that post 1970 units dont have that problem. > Due to startup voltage, has anyone noticed a difference between AF and Lionel > (or maybe MRC?). > Apologies for such a basic question- no cab control here! > L. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, > NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9 percent FIXED APR. > Apply online today! http://www.onelist.com/ad/nextcard1 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4410	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: Mystic Station

I believe that is an AF #589. Greenberg book says $60 green roof, and $75.00 black roof in E condition. I bounght a real nice one recently (green roof) on eBay for $37.00. Hope this helps... > From: "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> > > I have a question....I thought all "Mystic Stations" were talking > stations.....I saw one today with only the light installed and no > turntable or reproducer...from the factory...does anyone one know what a > fair price would be on this unit...the paint seemed nice ...few > scratches...it did have all the windows and doors....I would appreciate > your thoughts...Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4411	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 8/10/1999
Subject: Re: rheostats

Has anyone used a "variac" for a power controller? It goes on the 110v side of your transformer, then in my case, I had a 5 amp plate rectifier behind the transformer. The moving side of the variac had about 270 degrees of travel which added to the much longer range of speed control you had with it. Toyguy5344@... wrote: > From: Toyguy5344@... > > Back to the glory days of tinplate-head for a Lionel Pre-war dealer and get a > #95, or any other, for around $5. Yes, boys and girls, it does have a big wad > of asbestos in it. DON'T WORRY-if you don't play with the asbestos, it can't > harm you-only when particles are loose in the air. This nifty little item is > custom engineered for toy train voltage and really gets visitors asking "What > the hell is THAT??" This effect can be increased dramatically if you are also > using a Gilbert Rectifier for DC voltage.-john marganski > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: home to the world's liveliest email communities. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4412	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: talking station

Try Doug Peck's talking station unit with your station without a record. I added one to a Plasticville Union Station, and it sounds good (even a bit scratchy like an old record). But there's no record to wear out, so play it all you want. It comes with a speaker and tube, but I replaced this with a pair of small speakers from Radio Shack ("Sports", perfect size, used with tape players, yellow plastic enclosures, on sale $6.99 a pair, both fit in the station, used a capacitor in line to eliminate feedback), and foam-lined the back wall and roof of the station for extra projection out the front. My three year old daughter suddenly burst out with "All Aboard, AMERICAN FLYER!", right in the middle of the boardwalk. Should have seen the heads turn, should have seen her daddy grin.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4413	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: board stiff

What material should sawmill planks be made of? What's a good source for that wood and/or replacement planks? Thanks (is it Frank's?). I recently bought a sawmill. It came with 21 pieces of lumber, but only 4 work. 14 of the 21 pieces are too thick and jam the machine. 3 are the right thickness, but aren't wide enough and misfeed. All 17 that don't work are balsa wood. The 4 that do work are the right dimensions and thickness, and they seem slightly heavier and stronger (basswood?). I'd like to have more planks that work. Thanks for your help.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4414	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: transformers

Don't know much about other ways voltage might get to the case, but someone previously made the point to eliminate all wire splices inside the transformer, and to only have whole-wire direction connections. Sure enough, I checked my 12B and viola, there was a splice from years ago. New cord (2-wire), new soldered connections, and back in action.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4415	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: rheostats

One of our former club members used a variac as a controller in front of the transformer in his power supply and it was excellent, offering a great deal of fine adjustment as you described. Also, because he bought all the parts at a surplus electronics store, including a circuit breaker, the cost was very low. Dave and Kathy Engle wrote: > > From: Dave and Kathy Engle <ironhors@...> > > Has anyone used a "variac" for a power controller? It goes on the 110v side of > your transformer, then in my case, I had a 5 amp plate rectifier behind the > transformer. The moving side of the variac had about 270 degrees of travel which > added to the much longer range of speed control you had with it. > > Toyguy5344@... wrote: > > > From: Toyguy5344@... > > > > Back to the glory days of tinplate-head for a Lionel Pre-war dealer and get a > > #95, or any other, for around $5. Yes, boys and girls, it does have a big wad > > of asbestos in it. DON'T WORRY-if you don't play with the asbestos, it can't > > harm you-only when particles are loose in the air. This nifty little item is > > custom engineered for toy train voltage and really gets visitors asking "What > > the hell is THAT??" This effect can be increased dramatically if you are also > > using a Gilbert Rectifier for DC voltage.-john marganski > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > ONElist: home to the world's liveliest email communities. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to like-minds and kindred spirits. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4416	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: board stiff

Have you tried popsicle sticks? Don't know about the thickness. I know Roger Delthony has experimented with these. David_Horn@... wrote: > > From: David_Horn@... > > What material should sawmill planks be made of? What's a good source for > that wood and/or replacement planks? Thanks (is it Frank's?). > > I recently bought a sawmill. It came with 21 pieces of lumber, but only 4 > work. 14 of the 21 pieces are too thick and jam the machine. 3 are the > right thickness, but aren't wide enough and misfeed. All 17 that don't work > are balsa wood. The 4 that do work are the right dimensions and thickness, > and they seem slightly heavier and stronger (basswood?). I'd like to have > more planks that work. Thanks for your help. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to online communities. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4417	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: transformers- zap zap!

Lars wrote: >OK how does one 'solve' the problem of a current leak that seemed so common >in 'old' metal cased transformers, so that U got a shock when U touched the >metal case or perhaps another metal part of it? >A vendor said that post 1970 units dont have that problem. Metal cased transformers with a two pronged plug can be susceptible to the presence of case voltage if the line cord has deteriorated inside the box and one of the conductors is making casual contact with the case. The oldest wires were insulated with fabric over real rubber (ragwire). Heat and time will cause this to crumble, exposing the metal wire. Later units used vinyl insulation which takes much longer to become brittle, though some of the early vinyl has fallen apart by now. Also, later units used plastic cases and may have had 3 prong plugs with the ground securely fastened to the metal base. A damaged line feed in one of these would pop the household circuit breaker if it came into contact with a grounded case and created a short circuit. I believe you need a new line cord. If you do not feel comfortable repairing it yourself, take it to a local appliance repair center. Your local train store might also do it, but I feel that the appliance guy will have you in and out of there in a half hour for around ten bucks. I would put a grounded lead in, even if the original was 2 wire. He can tie the ground to a case screw inside somewhere and Voila!, no more surface voltage. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4418	From: Dennis Back	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: "L" #95 rheostat photo link

My thanks to Ron Morris - Library Chair, of the TCA for emailing me with a photo of the L 95 rheostat. In case anyone wants to see it, I will keep it posted on this link for a few weeks: http://members.tripod.com/~backden/95rheo.jpg Dennis Miami

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4419	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: transformers- zap zap!

Jeff: I am an electrician, and although a GFCI will diconnect when neutral current passes through the ground, there is still no substitute for safe wiring. With Lars transformer, a GFCI would certainly minimize the shock potential, because it would prevent all use of the transformer until it is fixed. CZ P.S., I think you wanted to send this to Lars, not me. >Hi, > >I am not an electrician...but another thing you can do is replace your >duplex, with a GFCI.....that should minimise exposure to an electrical >shock...Jeff > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4420	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: transformers- zap zap!

If the problem isn't the power cord, there could be a breakdown of the insulation in the enamel wire used to wind the transformer. It is worth warning that the transformer case might in fact be like having a huge bare wire in front of you. You can test this, by using a light bulb. Connect one side to any good ground (like the ground pin of an electrical recepticle) and touch the other end to the transformer case. If the lamp lights, you have a real hazard here! One way to still use the transformer and avoid the shocks would also to use what is called an "isolation transformer". This is a 120v in, 120v out device and will provide isolation so that if you get between the transformer case and ground, you will not receive a shock. Be warned that this transformer might end being bigger though than the toy train transformer you are trying to use! It might also be a good idea to check for excess voltage between the transformer case and each of the transformer connection terminals. You might find that between one of them and the case, you might have a lot more than 15 volts if insulation has broken down somewhere! The above is based on my 30+ years experience as an electronic technician. Most of all, be careful!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4421	From: Charles Ellis	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: transformer question

Can anyone tell me how to wire three AF transformsers (8B) so they are in phase with each other? I saw an article that said touch wires and compare spark size. Can you use a multimeter? Charles

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4422	From: Gerbasi	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: S in Mainstream Model Railroad publications

Well bless my soul. I got my issue of Model Railroad Craftsman in the mail and there is an article about a Sn3 pike, building a Howe Truss bridge in S and an article about an S layout and how to display it for a layout tour if it is incomplete. Three S articles in one magazine! Well gee whiz, most of the information could be applied to any scale or hi rail layout, even if one was running AF on Gilbert track. Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4423	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: S in Mainstream Model Railroad publications

Anyone notice the "Freudian slip". They introduced the SN3 layout as a "small HO layout" -----Original Message----- From: Gerbasi <kgerbasi@...> To: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Wednesday, August 11, 1999 12:06 PM Subject: [S-Trains] S in Mainstream Model Railroad publications >From: "Gerbasi" <kgerbasi@...> > >Well bless my soul. I got my issue of Model Railroad Craftsman in the mail and there is an article about a Sn3 pike, building a Howe Truss bridge in S and an article about an S layout and how to display it for a layout tour if it is incomplete. >Three S articles in one magazine! > >Well gee whiz, most of the information could be applied to any scale or hi rail layout, even if one was running AF on Gilbert track. > >Tom Gerbasi > > >[Attachments have been removed from this message] > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >How do you enter ONElist�s WEEKLY DRAWING for $100? >By joining the FRIENDS & FAMILY program. For details, go to >http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4424	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Board stiff

I believe what I need is 3/32"X3/8" basswood. Found 24" strips of it on the web http://www.nationalbalsa.com , but of course all local craft and hobby stores have every other size imaginable but this.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4425	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Board Stiff - solved

If you don't want to pay the $7 in shipping from the web, and don't find it at hobby stores, try doll house supply stores. I found it in store here that specializes in it doll house stuff (apparently a big hobby with the ladies). 3/32"x3/8"x24" basswood for 55 cents. Just cut and sawmill away!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4426	From: Don Abrams	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Even More Musings

Joe, You missed the 'speculectors' (read that speculator/collector). No operation No scenery No play No shelves of trains No knowledge of the prototype Just mint in the box 'commodities' waiting for rapid appreciation, usually within days of issue, and hopefully a short supply. Then sell 50-100% over list. To these guys, if the train has been out of the box and played with it's worthless! Seems mostly an 'L' phenomenon though thankfully. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4427	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: transformers- zap zap!

Hi, I am not an electrician...but another thing you can do is replace your duplex, with a GFCI.....that should minimise exposure to an electrical shock...Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4428	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: flanges away!

Questions for the list: How well does scale-flanged equipment operate on S-Helper sectional track? For example, has anyone had experience running scale brass engines and cars on S-Helper track? Second, do the deeper hi-rail flanges on S-Helper and AM products (not the big flanges on American Flyer equipment) offer better operating characteristics thatn scale? In other words, does hi-rail equipmetn derail less often because of the deeper flanges. Finally, I'm told AF motors are universal motors that operate on AC or DC current. Is that true? And if so, does that mean I can run, say, a 300AC on S-helper track powered by a DC power pack? Yours with more questions than answers, Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4429	From: Anormal1@aol.com	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: cheap wood

Hi Guys, I've found that the wood used for fruit boxes, which are free at most stores are good for rough buildings and stays flat ,min. warpage and is 3\16 thick. You have to let it dry and sort but out of a2-3 boxes you get quite a bit of useable stock. Also sands up nicely or can be left for rough cut siding,stock for lumber yards , flat loads etc. On the transformer topic I've found a hosehold light dimmer works well to vary voltage\speed It has to be wired on the i20v side. I use a 4inch metal box a duplex outletand switch cover . Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4430	From: Anormal1@aol.com	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: A M 4-6-2 southern

I have an American Models 4-6-2- Southern Crescent Scale D.C. Am willing to let go for $320.00 It is new\mint in the box never run etc. $10 s&h Mike Strickland

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4431	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: RC trucks

Dear Ted, Have you seen the new RC pick-up trucks for Field and Stream and Outdoor Life? They are from the 40's -50's and seem to be 1:64 scale. I picked up three different ones in Target. They also had some more recent models and a few panel trucks/vans. I have yet to see the Cadillac for the 40's. Has anyone found one yet? Don Thompson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4432	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 333

> Note that if you take a transformer that has detectable to touch leakage, convert it to 3 wire and plug it into an outlet protected by a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter (as any basement or garage outlet should be) you will trip the GFCI, and with good reason too. It is far better to track down the source of the leakage and fix it. > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:51:03 -0500 > From: Scott Holm <IMSSCOTT@...> > Subject: Re: transformers- zap zap! > > Well, I don't know if there is a specific solution to the problem, but here's what I would do. Replace the cord with a 3-wire cord > and a 3-pronged plug. Connect the ground wire of the cord to the case with a solid mechanical connection (i.e. drill a hole in the > case, scrape the paint off in the area and use a bolt and nut to connect the ground wire.) Then the plug should be connected to a > properly wired, grounded 3-hole outlet. what this does is make the case equal to the ground so if you are grounded there will be no > potential difference between you and the case and therefore, no shock. Modern appliances are insulated so that the case is not > connected to any of the powered guts, which makes 3-pronged plugs unnecessary. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4433	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Circuit Breakers

Does anyone know of a source for 5 or 6 ampere circuit breakers for use with our beloved American Flyer equipment? Preferably, the resetable kind. Alan Udy Idaho Falls ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4434	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: Re: flanges away!

"Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Questions for the list: > > How well does scale-flanged equipment operate on > S-Helper sectional track? For example, has anyone had > experience running scale brass engines and cars on > S-Helper track? -no experience. > > Second, do the deeper hi-rail flanges on S-Helper and > AM products (not the big flanges on American Flyer > equipment) offer better operating characteristics > thatn scale? In other words, does hi-rail equipmetn > derail less often because of the deeper flanges. -Based on our experience with operating both scale and hirail on AM code 148 flex and hand laid track on our modules I have to say the Hirail (AM, SHS, Crown, etc.) cars are much more robust than scale cars in staying on the track, particularly when modules aren't aligned perfectly. > > Finally, I'm told AF motors are universal motors that > operate on AC or DC current. Is that true? And if so, > does that mean I can run, say, a 300AC on S-helper > track powered by a DC power pack? -AF series wound motors run well on DC. Sequence reverse units may appear a tiny bit stickier but the motors themselves run well on DC. Note that AF permanent magnet DC motors are not universal, must have DC to run, and reverse direction via polarity change. > > Yours with more questions than answers, > > Paul Schneider > San Francisco > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > How do you enter ONElist�s WEEKLY DRAWING for $100? > By joining the FRIENDS & FAMILY program. For details, go to > http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4435	From: Richard	Date: 8/11/1999
Subject: no other ideas?????

With respect to Billy'd idea for a roving advertisement AKA Portable "S" Layout...details are at http://www.btsrr.com/btslayo1.htm .........are there no other ideas....c'mon don't be shy....lets get some brain storming happening.....I've gone through two more versions of my effort..probably get it right soon!!! there are/were a number of minor (oops) that could/are being made. ...if nothing else its a chance to have a bit of fun...I did. ohyeah ..anyone else been having slow mailings lately?? >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4436	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Digest Number 334

David_Horn@... says, >Subject: board stiff > >What material should sawmill planks be made of? What's a good source for >that wood and/or replacement planks? Thanks (is it Frank's?). > >I recently bought a sawmill. It came with 21 pieces of lumber, but only 4 >work. 14 of the 21 pieces are too thick and jam the machine. 3 are the >right thickness, but aren't wide enough and misfeed. All 17 that don't >work >are balsa wood. The 4 that do work are the right dimensions and >thickness, >and they seem slightly heavier and stronger (basswood?). I'd like to have >more planks that work. Thanks for your help. > Reading the above out of model train context. Here's a guy with a sawmill who can't cut his own boards? :-) Several years ago, I used #1 white pine stock and cut "boards" with radial arm saw. I ripped the "boards" but did not rip them through the end of the stock, leaving the ends attached to the stock. Then cut them to length with razor saw. The rip cuts were wider than the "boards" so most of the stock became sawdust. The stock was kiln dried but after the "boards" were cut and dried for a few weeks some warped and would not slide. I used some for the saw mill and some for one lumber car, cut to respective lengths. The harder the stock the "slicker" the "board" surface will be for sliding off the mill loading arm. Thinking about it, I like the suggestion of the 55 cent piece from the doll shop including $7.00 shipping! Buy three and the shipping would be the same. Then you could have a stack of drying lumber next to the sawmill or next to the lumber company your mill ships to. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4437	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: Sawmill planks

<<What material should sawmill planks be made of? What's a good source for that wood and/or replacement planks? Thanks (is it Frank's?). >> Not being a knowledgeable woodworker, I don't know what type wood they are. But we offer 10 planks, correct dimensions, for $4.00. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4438	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: in phase

The best way to check is the spark test Tom Jarcho has written about several times. Recently I put five transformers in phase with each other no sweat. Real quickly - - 1) Plug two transformers in and put each to about half throttle 2) connect the base terminals of the two 3) connect a wire to one of the transformer's 7-15 volt terminals 4) tap the other end of the wire from #4 to the 7-15 volt terminal of the other transformer If you get a bright spark, rotate the plug of one of the transformers 1/2 way around. Try #4 again. Shouldn't have nearly as big a spark, if any. Mark the plugs so you know which way they should all face. I use nail polish. It dries fast and it noticeable.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4439	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: plankly...I don't

know. What are the correct dimensions for a sawmill plank? I get enough misfeeds that now I'm wondering if any planks that came with this unit are the correct thickness, length, and width. Thanks in advance for checking and letting me know. PS I tried Popsicle sticks, or craft sticks, and while they have the right texture, strength, and sheen, they're thin enough that sometime the mill tries to push more than one through at a time.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4440	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: 99 Convention Photos

Hi Folks, I have added more photos of the NASG 1999 convention layouts on the NASG site: http://trainweb.com/nasg/99convention/index.html Enjoy! Craig S. O'Connell NASG Website Director

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4441	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Surprising S!

This was posted on the toytrains list, thought we might find it interesting David D. From: Brady Burdge <burdgeb@...> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:03:37 +-200 Subject: [toytrains] Flyer spotted in Nurnberg Spent the day yesterday in Nurnberg - visited the Deutche Bahn (German Railroad) Museum, the toy museum, and a few cathedrals. The toy museum has a large super-detailed American style S scale UP layout, most of the trains are painted/detailed American Flyer. The layout includes Omaha station with complete interior detail, two turntables, and a hump yard. There were two Flyer Challengers, and a engine house full of geeps in the service area, along with an 0-8-0, 0-6-0, a couple of Docksiders, F and FP units of kitbashed heritage around the layout. Most of the stock appeared to be painted Flyer freight and passenger cars. Amazing what you see where you don't expect it. There's a small theater next to the layout that shows a professionally produced film on the layout, it's one of the best layout films I have ever seen. I picked up an English brochure on the layout, if anyone's interested send me an e-mail and I'll scan it. Brady

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4442	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re-post from the TCA list

Brady Burge, who is stationed with the U.S. military in Germany, posted this yesterday to the TCA mail list. I have taken the liberty to repost it here because of it's interest to this group. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo ______________________________________________________________________ Spent the day yesterday in Nurnberg - visited the Deutche Bahn (German Railroad) Museum, the toy museum, and a few cathedrals. The toy museum has a large super-detailed American style S scale UP layout, most of the trains are painted/detailed American Flyer. The layout includes Omaha station with complete interior detail, two turntables, and a hump yard. There were two Flyer Challengers, and a engine house full of geeps in the service area, along with an 0-8-0, 0-6-0, a couple of Docksiders, F and FP units of kitbashed heritage around the layout. Most of the stock appeared to be painted Flyer freight and passenger cars. Amazing what you see where you don't expect it. There's a small theater next to the layout that shows a professionally produced film on the layout, it's one of the best layout films I have ever seen. I picked up an English brochure on the layout, if anyone's interested send me an e-mail and I'll scan it. Brady

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4443	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: zap zap thanks!

All interesting and good info on that buggy xformer, thanx. Haved not investigatged the solutions, and most likely will simply use a much newer unit- said item was an old metal cased Marx unit. Seems like I remember from years ago as a kid that a similar marx item did the same thing but they didnt recall it :o/ !!!!!!!! I agree with fixing the problem: in this case probably trashing the unit! My gut tells me this OLD technology and old varnish on the transformer windings all adding up to zzzzzzzzzap! I will pass on the GFI outlet idea... L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4444	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Phasing Transformers

Charles Ellis wrote: >Can anyone tell me how to wire three AF transformsers (8B) so they are in phase with each >other? I saw an article that said touch wires and compare spark size. Can you use a >multimeter? Charles: It will be helpful (although somewhat erroneous) to think of phasing as you might consider battery polarity, you know, + to + and - to - . In actuality, AC power switches between + and - 60 times a second, and phasing is simply a way to get your transformers to do it in unison rather than opposite each other. First, phase your transformers two at a time. Then add the third. This will cut down on confusion and the possibility of error. Wire the base posts of two transformers together. Plug the units into a multi-outlet power strip and plug that into a wall outlet. Ignore, for the time being, the 7-15 volt variable posts. Hook a wire up to ONE of the 15 volt fixed voltage posts. Gently touch the free end of that wire to the 15 volt fixed voltage post on the other transformer. There should be little or no spark. If there is a bright blue spark (which may trip the onboard circuit breakers), follow this procedure. Unplug EITHER transformer (but not both) from the power strip, and rotate the plug. Restore the transformers to operation by resetting any tripped breakers, then repeat the procedure of lightly touching the 15 volt post of one transformer with a wire connected to the corresponding post on the other transformer. Now there should be no spark. These two transformers are phased. In adding the third transformer, it is most important that you consider the first two units to be unchangeable. If a plug must be rotated, rotate the plug of only the third unit, so as to not change the phase relationship of the first two. In fact, the reason for the multi-outlet power strip is that you always maintain the correct phase relationships by keeping all the transformers plugged together, in phase. You can unplug the power strip from the wall, but it will not change the relative phase established between the units. Wire the base post of the third unit to the base post of either of the other two transformers, so that all three are wired together. Take the free end of that 15 volt fixed post test lead and touch the fixed post of the new unit. If there is not much spark, you're all set. If there is a big spark, rotate the power plug of the new unit, re-set the breakers and try again. Now, a wire touched to any two fixed voltage posts should be nearly spark free. Yes, you can use a multi-meter. In phase, fixed post to fixed post should be a volt or less. Out of phase, it should read as high as 30 volts. In practical usage, you would insulate track blocks with fiber pins on the 7-15 volt variable side, while keeping all your base post rails well connected. The phased transformers will keep the basepost jumper installed. This will allow smooth transitions from block to block with no reverse unit glitches. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4445	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: zap zap thanks!

Hmm, As it's an old MarX unit, it's probably not worth spending much time on it anyway--especially if its one of the narrow ones w/ throttle lever on the side. These transformes seem to be very common still, BTW, they are also slightly lower voltage than AF or L's. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4446	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: Re-post from the TCA list

How does one get on the TCA mail list?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4447	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: Surprising S!

Dear Brad, I for one would love to see the brochure. I have as catalog from the 1998 Nuremberg trains show and there was an advertisement for a video of that UP AF layout. I think it said that GIs stationed in Germany after WW2 built it. But, alas, the video was in some format that we cannot view on our VCRs here in the USA. But, I would love to see the brochure. Don Thompson David Dewey wrote: > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > This was posted on the toytrains list, thought we might find it interesting > David D. > > From: Brady Burdge <burdgeb@...> > Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:03:37 +-200 > Subject: [toytrains] Flyer spotted in Nurnberg > > Spent the day yesterday in Nurnberg - visited the Deutche Bahn (German > Railroad) Museum, the toy museum, and a few cathedrals. > The toy museum has a large super-detailed American style S scale UP > layout, most of the trains are painted/detailed American Flyer. The layout > includes Omaha station with complete interior detail, two turntables, and a > hump yard. There were two Flyer Challengers, and a engine house full of > geeps in the service area, along with an 0-8-0, 0-6-0, a couple of > Docksiders, F and FP units of kitbashed heritage around the layout. Most of > the stock appeared to be painted Flyer freight and passenger cars. > Amazing what you see where you don't expect it. > > There's a small theater next to the layout that shows a professionally > produced film on the layout, it's one of the best layout films I have ever > seen. > > I picked up an English brochure on the layout, if anyone's interested > send me an e-mail and I'll scan it. > > Brady > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Transfer your big list to ONElist and earn $500! > For program details, go to > http://www.onelist.com/info/biglistbon_intro.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4448	From: kelvin white	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Surprising S!

In message <00df01bee4d9$e4665360$0743e7cf@...>, David Dewey <djdewey@...> writes >From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > >This was posted on the toytrains list, thought we might find it interesting >David D. > >From: Brady Burdge <burdgeb@...> >Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:03:37 +-200 >Subject: [toytrains] Flyer spotted in Nurnberg > > > Spent the day yesterday in Nurnberg - visited the Deutche Bahn (German >Railroad) Museum, the toy museum, and a few cathedrals. > The toy museum has a large super-detailed American style S scale UP >layout, most of the trains are painted/detailed American Flyer. The layout >includes Omaha station with complete interior detail, two turntables, and a >hump yard. There were two Flyer Challengers, and a engine house full of >geeps in the service area, along with an 0-8-0, 0-6-0, a couple of >Docksiders, F and FP units of kitbashed heritage around the layout. Most of >the stock appeared to be painted Flyer freight and passenger cars. > Amazing what you see where you don't expect it. There is also a video available about the layout about 12Dm from memory - but commentry all in German - I saw it on sell in Utrecht (Netherlands) last year at a large international Model Railway exhibition at which I ewas helping to operate a friends O scale layout. Best regards -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4449	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: Surprising S!

May have been a Batamax format Larry Don Thompson wrote: > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> > > Dear Brad, > I for one would love to see the brochure. I have as catalog from the 1998 > Nuremberg trains show and there was an advertisement for a video of that UP AF > layout. I think it said that GIs stationed in Germany after WW2 built it. > But, alas, the video was in some format that we cannot view on our VCRs here > in the USA. > But, I would love to see the brochure. > > Don Thompson > > David Dewey wrote: > > > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > > > This was posted on the toytrains list, thought we might find it interesting > > David D. > > > > From: Brady Burdge <burdgeb@...> > > Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:03:37 +-200 > > Subject: [toytrains] Flyer spotted in Nurnberg > > > > Spent the day yesterday in Nurnberg - visited the Deutche Bahn (German > > Railroad) Museum, the toy museum, and a few cathedrals. > > The toy museum has a large super-detailed American style S scale UP > > layout, most of the trains are painted/detailed American Flyer. The layout > > includes Omaha station with complete interior detail, two turntables, and a > > hump yard. There were two Flyer Challengers, and a engine house full of > > geeps in the service area, along with an 0-8-0, 0-6-0, a couple of > > Docksiders, F and FP units of kitbashed heritage around the layout. Most of > > the stock appeared to be painted Flyer freight and passenger cars. > > Amazing what you see where you don't expect it. > > > > There's a small theater next to the layout that shows a professionally > > produced film on the layout, it's one of the best layout films I have ever > > seen. > > > > I picked up an English brochure on the layout, if anyone's interested > > send me an e-mail and I'll scan it. > > > > Brady > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > Transfer your big list to ONElist and earn $500! > > For program details, go to > > http://www.onelist.com/info/biglistbon_intro.html > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > Ask about the Fall Get-Together > September 24th, 25th & 26th > South Amboy, NJ > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: the best place to EXPLORE topics, SHARE ideas, and > CONNECT to people with the same interests. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4450	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: vehicles

Went by K-mart today. Most of the RC 60's autos seemed too small, more like HO. Got 1 truck, a STOCKRODS '40 Delivery Custom van, blue & yellow, with a lot of lettering TBR. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4451	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: RC trucks

On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 20:27:58 -0400 Don Thompson <robin@...> writes: > Have you seen the new RC pick-up trucks for Field and Stream and >Outdoor Life? They are from the 40's -50's and seem to be 1:64 scale. >They also had some more recent models and a few panel trucks/vans. >Don Thompson > The F&S trucks that I have seen are new issues of previously issued vehicles. I agree, they are S scale. I have not seen the panel trucks. I'll look for them. Thanks, Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.localnet.com/~dbard/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4452	From: Richard	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Pix of trucks

To any of the car and truck gurus.,Its actually very intersting when postings of suitable vehicles are made...I have a question and/or request...has anyone got site going with pix of these cars etc...is this ..like asking for the moon..i"ll understand if so...just would be real handy...sometimes, especiallyin this neck of the woods, some brands are rebadged or packaged ( different distributor, or marketeer) ...some times items which might be an expensive line (Johnny Lightning for mr IS) turn up , or look like they do..in a cheaper line...with pix i could verify..so muight others. As cars and trucks are to me vital in setting the scene..I thought this might be applicable to both lists >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4453	From: Bill Banta	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Surprising S!

Eurpean video is recorded in a format called PAL, not compatible with anything this side of the pond.. bill b...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4454	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: E Bay Listing

Hello, Can anyone tell me where to list American Models Scale items Thank You Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4455	From: Melonie & Chris Crnich	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: unscribe

unscribe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4456	From: Richard	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: email addresses please

Am trying to put together a complete listing for magazines...re submissions etc.. Any one got eMail addresses for: Rail Model Journal Bob Hundman (Mainline Modeler) Don Heimberger TIA >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4457	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: email addresses please

Dear Richard, Don Heimbergers address is (was?): donheim310@... I talked to him yesterday and he told mehe was building a web page. Re:Rail Model Journal, I talked to Bob (the editor) at St. Paul. We (SHS) are starting to send our out press releases on CD and asked him if he could handle this. He said he does not use a computer. Go figure? Don T. Richard wrote: > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > Am trying to put together a complete listing for magazines...re > submissions etc.. > Any one got eMail addresses for: > Rail Model Journal > Bob Hundman (Mainline Modeler) > Don Heimberger > > TIA >:~)) Richard -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4458	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: hand hewn

I found that 3/32" thick, 10.5mm wide, 73.75mm long boards work best. Ended the evening with four 6-board loadings in a row without a misfeed.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4459	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Soldering leads to A-M track

What's the secret to soldering electrical leads to American Models track. I'm using a 30 watt gun, is this big enough? I have not been consistent in getting two pieces of track to stay soldered or leads soldered to the bottom of rail joiners to "stick". John Griffin RxMan46321@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4460	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: Soldering leads to A-M track

Are you cleaning off the weathering where you solder? The solder needs to be applied to bright shiny rail to stick. You can reweather after soldering with a dab of dark grimy/rusty color paint. I have had no problem soldering AM as long as it's shiny & clean. PS. Same goes for their rail joiners. Soldering to the bottom of rail joiners is an excellent way to attach feed wires but again the bottoms must shine. RxMan46321@... wrote: > > From: RxMan46321@... > > What's the secret to soldering electrical leads to American Models track. > > I'm using a 30 watt gun, is this big enough? I have not been consistent in > getting two pieces of track to stay soldered or leads soldered to the bottom > of rail joiners to "stick". > > John Griffin > RxMan46321@... > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com! > If you join ONElist�s FRIENDS & FAMILY program. For details, go to > http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4461	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Soldering tips

The secret to soldering is to have enough heat at the point of contact for just the right time--and scrupulous preparation. The latter means you should scrape, sand, or steelwool the surface to be soldered, and then clean it of all oils, residues, and contaminants--including fingerprints. I use denatured alcohol for this, after I make sure the surfaces to be joined are shiny. Never carry the solder to the work on the soldering iron tip! Always heat the work and add the solder to the work at the same time. The use of a good resin-core solder such as Ersin Multicore or Kester 60/40 is essential. The flux will cause the solder to "flow." Sometimes adding just a little bit of solder to the work or the iron's tip will also cause the flowing effect. Just don't over-do it. And, don't use acid fluxes where you won't be able to remove every trace later. They can cause nasty corrosion. However, I use paste flux quite a bit on larger items. I clean it off with denatured or 99 percent isopropyl alcohol. Also, use a wet sponge to keep the iron's tip clean. I clean the tip by swiping it on the sponge before EVERY joint is made. Then I add a miniscule bit of solder to get the flux flowing and keep the tip "tinned." I also use steel tips, not copper. If you use copper, you can "dress" the tip with a file every now and then as needed. Do NOT file or dress a stainless tip! You'll ruin it, and they're expensive. Sometimes, with larger peices, or items you're going to "sweat solder" together, it pays to pre-coat the surfaces. This is called "tinning." Just prepare the pirces, and coat them with a thin solder "plating" before joining them with extra solder. Oftentimes you'll tin a job before putting it into place with the other piece to be joined. Sweating two pieces is nice because you don't see the soldered connection or joint. The two pieces are previously tinned and then placed together and then heated until the solder on the hidden surfaces flows toegther. Also, once the solder is joining the work, be sure not to move the pieces until the solder cools and sets. If you see a grainy effect, the soldered connection is said to be a "cold" solder connection. Re-do it! Do not cool a joint with water either. Let it set or cool naturally. You can use a "solder sucker" to remove excess solder or to de-solder something, or try solder wick. Solder wick is a copper braid that sucks up solder, but it needs a little added flux-based solder to make it "start." I prefer a solder sucker, but they're much more costly. The solder sucker is a spring loaded affair with a trigger and a heat-resistant tip. You place it on the molten solder and hit the trigger and---bingo--the solder gets sucked into the tool, leaving a clena (and usually tinned) surface! Regards and good luck, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4462	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: Soldering tips

hi all, Good flux is critical to good solder joints. However, be sure and us a rosin-type flux! In our use, an acid-flux is a real NO-NO! A certain amount of flux remains within the solder, and over time, the acid stuff will start corrosion. Might be quite a while down the road, but it will happen! Also be aware the different "mixes" (the amounts of tin/antimony/ and (use to be) Lead/etc.) melt at different temperatures. As you become proficient, or lucky, you can use this to your advantage when adding stuff to previously soldered stuff. I'm still often unlucky! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4463	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: S Suppliers Page

Hi Folks, I have updated my S Suppliers website so that it is now subdivided into a few different categories. The page was growing so long that it had to be modified as such. There is now a main menu page for S Suppliers that provides links to different categories of products. http://trainweb.com/crocon/ssuppliers.html Hope this helps to make navigating the page a bit more user friendly. Craig

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4464	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: Convention

Hey......How about somebody posting the names of the convention awards winners?????? Bernie Thomas award, Manufacturer of the Year? Top Model winners? And with all the <excessive> back-and-forth recently about magazine publications and S articles, nobody has bothered to mention who won the Perles Award for an S artcile in a non-S magazine.......... or isn't that important to anybody out there!!!!! Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4465	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: How do I.....

Ok, we all know that the pikemaster area is a gray area, and not too much info is out there especially in the current books. I am a little short on space, and have a small Pike Master pike. I figured that there were track power strips for running operating cars, and after asking around at the last show found two PM rails, and purchased same. The question is.... how do we use the mail car with PM? Any ideas?? I don't recall a PM version of this being listed or talked about. What have any other PM operators out there done in this situation? Thanks....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4466	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 8/12/1999
Subject: Re: RITS: !950's Grain Elevators

Ted, you are right in that the Butler bins that were out in that era were not particularly tall; they are nothing like the A.O.Smith silos that came around in the 60s--coming up in my church, we had a sales rep for AOS in the cong., at that time. I doubt the Butlers were more than 20 ft. tall, probably less, some farms near home in those days (east of Des Moines) had rows and rows of them. We also had a few quonset huts, but they were big enough to be machine sheds, shops, etc., unb spite of the roof curvatures. Ted Schnepf wrote: > Hi John and Dave, > > I respectfully disagree with Dave's post that the Walthers model was common > in the 1950's. > > The Walthers model is a large diameter, tall corrugated steel grain bin of > large capacity. This type was not built till the 1960's. Corrugated bins > in the 1950's were smaller diameter and shorter in height. The Walthers > model might be OK in S or O scale, representing a smaller bin. > > In the 1950's the government Quonset buildings were common. Large steel > storage bins at elevators were generally riveted flat steel in that era. > > This knowledge comes from growing up on a farm in the 1950's. > > Ted > > At 04:36 PM 8/12/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Butler Mfg, headquartered in Kansas City but with plants at places liek > >twin-cities and Galesburg, Ill. built most of the corrugated metal grain > bins. > >Based on what I remember as a kid in the 50's, I'd say they would be ok on a > >layout of that era, possibly even earlier. > > > >jmoenius@... wrote: > > > >> I really like those round corregated grain storage silos made by > Walthers. I > >> model in the mid 1950's. I'm afraid that this type of grain storage did > not > >> come about until much later. Can anyone confirm this. > >> > >> John M. > > > > > > > > > > > Rails Unlimited - Ted Schnepf > Railroad Models, Decals, Books & Photo Sales > 126 Will Scarlet; Elgin, Ill 60120 > Voice 847-697-5353 or 5366 - railsunl@... > Web site http://users.FoxValley.net/~railsunl/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4467	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: How do I.....

Well..... Since the mail car requires at least one straight section, and preferably two, I'd say to get some adapter pins and put in a piece of "old fashioned" "standard" straight track! I don't believe the mail car was actually offered during the Pikemaster period. I believe you will also have to shim the PM track to meet the "old stuff". Although AF offered the adapter pins, I don't recall ever seeing an adapter shim! The only other option would be to fabricate a stand and contact using an old one for a pattern. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4468	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Nurmberg

Thanks Brady Burdge for the flyer from "The Model Railway on exhibition in the Nuremberg Toy Museum" http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/nurmberg/nurmberg.html Also for those that have seen in the news about Pratt & Whitney closing down their facility in West Palm Beach Florida, don't worry about me (after 23 years) I escaped about three months ago. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4469	From: Dennis Back	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: rheostats/ pic. of "L" #95

I tried to post this earlier in the week but the message got bounced back to me so here it is again. My thanks to Ron Morris - Library Chair, of the T.C.A. for emailing me a photo of the "L" #95. For those of you that want to see it, I will have it posted at the following link for a few weeks. http://members.tripod.com/~backden/95rheo.jpg Remember model RR'ers: PLAY WITH YOUR TOYS! :-) Regards, Dennis Miami, Fl. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4470	From: Richard	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Publishing Experiences please

Hi de Hi all It occurrs to me (yes occasionally a nueron or two get moving) thatin putting together a " How to get Published guide" that despite being probably non-qualified to really preach , I can co-ordinate the combining of informed hints and experiences. I therefore ask, indeed beseech my learned colleagues to provide insight and any experiences, anecdotal or otherwise as to DO's and DONT's of getting articles or Pix into print. If we can all benefit from past efforts and achievements then we are a little closer...oui/non ?? all gems of wisdom this way please richard_snook@......contributions will of course be gratefully acknowledged. cheers :~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4471	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 335

The European television formats were developed later than the US format (NTSC) and have improved resolution by using more scan lines. As a result Eurpoean VHS recorders can't record for as long on the same size cassette. There are tape decks that have a sntadards converter circuit built into them that can handle both formats. There are also services which, for a fee, will copy a European tape into US format. Vic Bereskin > > Message: 12 > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:27:31 -0400 > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> > Subject: Re: Surprising S! > > Dear Brad, > I for one would love to see the brochure. I have as catalog from the 1998 > Nuremberg trains show and there was an advertisement for a video of that UP AF > layout. I think it said that GIs stationed in Germany after WW2 built it. > But, alas, the video was in some format that we cannot view on our VCRs here > in the USA. > But, I would love to see the brochure. > > Don Thompson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4472	From: Jeffrey Madden	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Convention

>From: PortLines@... >To: S-Trains@onelist.com, S-Scale@onelist.com, foley164@... >Subject: [S-Scale] Re: [S-Trains] Convention >Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:05:47 EDT > >From: PortLines@... > >Hey......How about somebody posting the names of the convention awards >winners?????? >Bernie Thomas award, Manufacturer of the Year? >Top Model winners? >And with all the <excessive> back-and-forth recently about magazine >publications and S articles, nobody has bothered to mention who won the >Perles Award for an S artcile in a non-S magazine.......... or isn't that >important to anybody out there!!!!! >Doug > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Having difficulty getting "in synch" with list members? >http://www.onelist.com >Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ NASG '99 St. Paul Convention Bernie Thomas Memorial Award for outstanding S Gauger: Ed Loizeaux. Tony Perles Award for S in Non-S publication: Silas Kayle (Dave Jasper)for MR article in Jan. '99. Charles Sandersfeld Award for outstanding S manufacturer of the year: Bill Banta of Banta Modelworks. Contest Best of Show to Rusty Rustermier for a scratchbuilt D&RGW Pacific. Sad post convention news is the passing of Ed Filer shortly after returning to his West Virginia home. Craig, do you want to grab ahold of this and add it to the sight. Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4473	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: rheostats/ pic. of "L" #95

So where do I mount the Jacob's Ladder and the Van De Graf machine? With enough of this stuff *no one* will mess with my throttles--they'll be too afraid to!! Hmm, might be an interesting way to get the "punk" crowd interested in trains!! S' David (Who's been in the museum hall wiring displays too long!!!!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4474	From: Alan Evans	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Info on Ed Filer's passing away

Friends: Wednesday I received a call from a fellow in West Virginia that Ed Filer had passed away August 4th from penumonia. Ed had returned from the Convention (he had a dealer table at the Kelly Inn) on Monday, July 26th. On the August 1st he was admitted to the hospital in Buckhannon, and died on Wednesday. I had briefly met Ed at several other Conventions, and in June he said he wanted to go to the St. Paul Convention. He drove to my shop in Columbus and met others on our expedition to St. Paul: John Foley, Jim LaRoche, Gregg Spence and me. Riding up to Minnesota in the camper I had the opportunity to talk to Ed and learn about his scratch building and some of his techniques (he'd won several awards for his entries at the NASG Conventions). I suggested he should write a few of these techniques down and submit them for publication. (If I'd known he would pass away 10 days later, maybe I should have written down some of his as he told me!) Ed had open heart surgery probably a year ago and was taking medication plus had to use an inhaler. He had to give up smoking and the frequent trips to the bar. I was concerned about him in the heat in St. Paul and helping load the camper when we left Sunday evening. Driving straight thru to Columbus (808 miles) was hard on all of us, but Ed never complained when I asked if he was feeling ok. He wanted to drive from Columbus back to Buckhannon (3 hours) without rest, and I'm sure that didn't contribute to maintaining his health. That's the last time I saw Ed -- I feel fortunate that we did enjoy going to the NASG Convention. I'm sad that we in S have lost another old time, scratch building scaler who kept S going in the lean years. I for one appreciate the craftsman who begins with a lot of pieces parts and assembles an award-winning engine, car or structure. Thanks for knowing you for a short time, Ed. Alan Evans Postscript: A train friend is preparing a list of Ed's train and parts inventory to be sold.. If you 're interested in the list, let me know.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4475	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Detail parts needed?

I'm hoping for some help from someone who has been around S and detail parts a lot longer than I. I'm searching for some S scale theater seats. Would prefer the one where the seats fold down to sit in them. Are these manufactured by anyone? Any good leads? Thanks very much in advance Michael PS And I need a lot of them :-) Enough for a theater....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4476	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/13/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Convention

Jeffrey Madden wrote: >Tony Perles Award for S in Non-S publication: Silas Kayle (Dave Jasper)for >MR article in Jan. '99. In addition to the Perles Publication Award, a Perles Publication Honorable Mention was given for the first time. The Perles Publication Award Guidelines now allow for up to 2 Honorable Mentions to ge given. This year's Honorable Mention went to Ed Loizeaux for his article "Visiting The S Scale National Convention" in the June, 1998 issue of RMC. The title of the article written by the award winner Sylas Kayle (aka. Dave Jasper) is "The Central New England Railway". >Craig, do you want to grab ahold of this and add it to the sight. >Jeff Ditto from me Craig. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4477	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: Special 'Chat' Guest

Sunday Night Chat will include a special Guest. Richard Snook, our S friend from 'down under' will make a second visit to our Sunday night talk fest. This will be his last visit for a while, so I hope you will make an effort to join us. For information on Internet Relay Chat and our weekly event see http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm Contact me if you need setup assistance. PS. For those of you wondering , yes it will be a 'Monday morning chat' for Richard. (For east coast folks it starts at 8pm EST) -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4478	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: Nurmberg layout

Wow! I especially like the use of panel meters on the control console. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4479	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: vehicles

Sorry if this is a duplicate. I received an error message from Onelist after I sent it the first time. On Wed, 11 Aug 1999 20:27:58 -0400 Don Thompson <robin@...> writes: > Have you seen the new RC pick-up trucks for Field and Stream and >Outdoor Life? They are from the 40's -50's and seem to be 1:64 scale. >They also had some more recent models and a few panel trucks/vans. >Don Thompson > The F&S trucks that I have seen are new issues of previously issued vehicles. I agree, they are S scale. I have not seen the panel trucks. I'll look for them. Thanks, Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.localnet.com/~dbard/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4480	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: '50's Chev PU

Many of you missed the early '50's Chev PU from Mint Editions. It is now available in a custom version, which requires new paint for a stock appearance (small problem), but it also has tiny custom tires (big problem). You'll need to take tires off another ME car, BUT, it might be better than not having one! Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.localnet.com/~dbard/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4481	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: to List or NOT to List?

Onelist makes it very easy to Subscribe, Unsubscribe, or change to Digest version by going to their Member Services site and choosing your options. Thereis ANOTHER option there which works very well for temporary Unsubscribe, such as for vacation. Just click No Mail, and you will remain a subscriber, but will receive no mail until you go back and turn the mail back on. This sure beats unsubscribing, and then re-subscribing. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.localnet.com/~dbard/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4482	From: Richard	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: Aww Shuchks...bring books...I'll sign

Paul, Chuch et all Yeah really enjoyed the chat last week...look forward to yacking again...new work committments mean that Monday mornings will be out for a while ..so I'll enjoy it while it lasts. Hope to see a few of you there. cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4483	From: Richard	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: 1:64 car list

Now maybe I had too many ports one night ...but I can swear I remember seeing a website somewhere that listed cars and trucks by their scale?? Was this my imaginatio?? Cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4484	From: Richard	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: WARNING ..Flogging Dead Horse!!!

Whilst some may consider this flogging a dead horse I think that the occasional (like that..occasional, my little disclaimer regarding harping!!!) discussions regarding promotions and ideas is healthy and indeed..necessary. Was floating around the net..looking for pix of 1:64 trucks actually..and came upon a message posted on a chat list about car collecting (don't ask me how I got there!!) this enquirer was looking for the "right size" trains to display with his cars and trucks...his 1:64 size cars and trucks!!! Now surfing around , It occurrs to me that car collecting is BIG time (Ted , Keith comments...) ...these guys have meets etc ..........now to convince you all I'm totally mad ( I know some of you already appreciate this "quality") . What if we did have "generic" S scale layouts..(Scale and Flyer) and they were occasionally shown at a car collectors meet......layout all tizzed up with some decent scenery, ROADS and heres the thing...appropriate cars and trucks of the right size ...in the vicinity of 1:64....anyone think we might get a little interest of some "car" people to extend their hobby....if nothing else it gets a little more exposure to the Public. Now I don't expect thousands, even hundreds to defect to ttrains...but it might raise the publics coscience . Now there are a lot more cars etc from what i can gather after a brief investigation, that are in our neighborhood as opposed to some other rail scales....1:64 is a sort after size in that hobby ?? As before ,Idon't expect an avalanche of car enthusiasts trading half their collections to get into trains...but here is my thought. Some of those who collect cars (and there is a hell of a lot more of them than us..trains) will display them in an appropriate environment...some in cases ..car after car etc..some in a natural scenic display..roads!!!...When we are considering the market for "S" products then are we foolish to completely overlook "other" similar hobby groups. From other observations the Farm Toy Collecting arena seems pretty big. Am I just so far off the mark here?? or is there a little potential here for cross marketing in some area of product that is being overlooked?? I''l just go take my medication now.... >:~)) Richard outside of the square and beyond the dots!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4485	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: too small?

Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:53:24 -0400 (EDT) From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) Subject: vehicles Went by K-mart today. Most of the RC 60's autos seemed too small, more like HO. Got 1 truck, a STOCKRODS '40 Delivery Custom van, blue & yellow, with a lot of lettering TBR. Tom ____________________________________________________________________________ Actually, the vast majority of Racing Champions (Mint Editions) vehicles are near 1/64th scale. Some are slightly larger, others are slightly small. They might appear undersize because S modelers have been forced to use oversize vehicles, just to get something that looked halfway close to the right size, especially if used with an oversize Plasticville O/S building, or parked next to AF track, which stands way too tall for proper 1/64th scale (BUT REMEMBER, it was built as a toy, not as a model). Now that we have code 148 and 125 to run AF on, the proper sized vehicles look more correct. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.localnet.com/~dbard/ ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4486	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: Re: WARNING ..Flogging Dead Horse!!!

Dear Richard, We too noticed this at the Hobby shows. We have added 1:64" scale models to or show display and our windowed gift boxes. Don T. Richard wrote: > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > Whilst some may consider this flogging a dead horse I think that the > occasional (like that..occasional, my little disclaimer regarding > harping!!!) discussions regarding promotions and ideas is healthy and > indeed..necessary. > > Was floating around the net..looking for pix of 1:64 trucks > actually..and came upon a message posted on a chat list about car > collecting (don't ask me how I got there!!) this enquirer was looking > for the "right size" trains to display with his cars and trucks...his > 1:64 size cars and trucks!!! > > Now surfing around , It occurrs to me that car collecting is BIG time > (Ted , Keith comments...) ...these guys have meets etc ..........now to > convince you all I'm totally mad ( I know some of you already appreciate > this "quality") . > > What if we did have "generic" S scale layouts..(Scale and Flyer) and > they were occasionally shown at a car collectors meet......layout all > tizzed up with some decent scenery, ROADS and heres the > thing...appropriate cars and trucks of the right size ...in the vicinity > of 1:64....anyone think we might get a little interest of some "car" > people to extend their hobby....if nothing else it gets a little more > exposure to the Public. Now I don't expect thousands, even hundreds to > defect to ttrains...but it might raise the publics coscience . Now > there are a lot more cars etc from what i can gather after a brief > investigation, that are in our neighborhood as opposed to some other > rail scales....1:64 is a sort after size in that hobby ?? > > As before ,Idon't expect an avalanche of car enthusiasts trading half > their collections to get into trains...but here is my thought. > > Some of those who collect cars (and there is a hell of a lot more of > them than us..trains) will display them in an appropriate > environment...some in cases ..car after car etc..some in a natural > scenic display..roads!!!...When we are considering the market for "S" > products then are we foolish to completely overlook "other" similar > hobby groups. From other observations the Farm Toy Collecting arena > seems pretty big. > > Am I just so far off the mark here?? or is there a little potential here > for cross marketing in some area of product that is being overlooked?? > > I''l just go take my medication now.... > > >:~)) Richard > > outside of the square and beyond the dots!! > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ATTN ONELIST USERS: stay current on the latest activities, > programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at > <a href=" http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/onelist_announce ">Click</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4487	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/14/1999
Subject: Fw: [S-Scale] Re: theatre seats

-----Original Message----- From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> To: s-scale list <s-scale@onelist.com> Date: Saturday, August 14, 1999 8:43 PM Subject: [S-Scale] Re: theatre seats >From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> > >Could someone please forward this on to the S-trains list. Since I am >not a member, I cannot send to it. Thanks..Ed L. > > >> Michael Greene wrote: >> >> > I'm searching for some S scale theater seats. >> > Are these >> > manufactured by anyone? Any good leads? >> >> I don't know of any theatre seats, but you might consider coach seats >> made for the olde tyme wooden coaches (either standard or narrow gauge) >> as maanufactured by Grandt Line. If I remember correctly, they have two >> types: one labeled "narrow gauge" and one labeled "standard gauge." >> Please don't ask what the difference is between them -- I couldn't >> fathom a guess. These are plastic kits and not very expensive. Will >> your theatre roof be removeable? Do you want a good source of >> inexpensive seated plastic people? After all, empty theatres soon go >> broke. >> >> Good luck on an interesting project...Ed L. > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >How do you enter ONElist�s WEEKLY DRAWING for $100? >By joining the FRIENDS & FAMILY program. For details, go to >http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > >------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4488	From: John Foley	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Train Show

Hi Folks On the 28th & 29th of this month The South Jersay S Gaugers will have their wonderful layout running at the Largescale Train Show at the Garden State Exhibition Center in Somerset NJ. Also I am told S Helper Service will be there. I am sure there will be other S manufacturers and dealers in attendance. And the NASG and myself will be there. The shows web site is at http://trainshow.largescale.com/ John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4489	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: WARNING...Flogging Dead Horse

Richard asks about showing 1/64 trains at car shows. I make it a point at local train shows by setting up just one module with "S" trains and track plus many Winross trucks (1/64) and Racing Champion Mint edition (close to 1/64) cars and point this out to onlookers. Many in our area are Winross truck collectors and find the connection interesting. Greenberg train shows seem to be selling more cars and trucks than trains. I have not seen a car or truck show as yet. Maybe a static display at Target or Wal-Mart stores would be a possibility. Under a sealed dome with literature. Ask a store manager! Running on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4490	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: AF 355

Dear Track Gang: I received this message yesterday, as possibly, a few others of you have also. It was sent off-list and I believe such discussions are more fruitful for everyone on the list. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry <lensman@...> To: busy-boy <busy-boy@...> Date: Sunday, August 15, 1999 12:27 AM Subject: AF 355 >Hello, > >I'm new to list and would like to involve the experts in a discussion on how to >correct a deficient running AF 355 switcher. It runs very erratic, the forward >direction runs okay but not nearly fast enough, and running in reverse plan >sucks. I've taken everything apart, cleaned and lubbed but little difference. >Any suggestions for getting this engine running better. > >Jerry I presume you are new to the S-trains list. There is no mention of the list to which you subscribe. This is a subject that was pretty exhaustively covered a while back on the TCA list, though it was a Lionel engine at the center of things. My recollection is that motor brushes were the problem. They had worn badly and because they were run in forward significantly more than in reverse, they had a set wear pattern that interfered with good reverse operation. By posting this on the S-trains list, I hope to draw the comments of some of the repair and parts specialists who lurk here, but I have taken the liberty of also cross posting to the TCA list to see if I can get a clearer recollection of just how that original discussion went and how it resolved. You can subscribe to the TCA list. Just go to: http://www.egroups.com/group/toytrains/info.html Read about it then click the "Join this e group" button. Enjoy CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4491	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Track Layout!

Hello, A little guidance is needed....I am in the process of putting a 5' X 16' permanent platform up...I am looking to maximise this platform...my goal is to have as many locos running on this size layout....I will be running American Flyer "S" gauge...I do have a lot of switches...does anyone have a CAD program or running a size layout like this...I be willing to pay someone for this info...If I can get a interesting track layout....would be great...I appreciate any input....thanks, Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4492	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: Butler Bins

As a builder of many Butler bins in my yute I can attest that they came in about 20 foot tall. They were usually 5 to 6 layers in height, each layer about 30". The top layer was formed on the ground, the roof and attachments were fitted, then the whole thing was jacked up and the next layer was added from the bottom. This was repeat untill the bin was finished. John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4493	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: Train Show

Interesting, I went to this site and read about the show. If I read correctly, booths are $250 each, and public admission is $8/adult and $5/student/under 6 free. Are these "normal" expenses for shows back east? It seems more expensive than shows I've attended/participated in out here (Northern California). I'm just curious about the differences across the nation in the train hobby itself and the value people (including the general public) put on going to shows. It does often seem (to me at least) that there is a whole lot more activity and interest "back east" than there is "out west". S' David Dewey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4494	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: AF 355

Jerry, Well, any number of things can be causing your problem. Brush wear is a good possibility, as is flaky reverse unit fingers (355s usually have the "regular" 4-position reverse unit), but also you could have a motor with shorted windings (field or armature) as these units tend to run hot. A fourth possibility could be as simple as dirty wheels and rail contact plungers, or too springs to stiff on the same plungers! I have 'tamed down" my 355 by adding a voltage dropper between the reverse unit and the motor. (take the unswitched lead (green?) from the motor to the reverse unit, attach it to one AC end of a Radio Shack full-wave rectifier, solder the DC leads of the rectifier together, and the other AC end to where the green wire originally terminated, and voila, a 2 volt (approximately) voltage reducer--place the rectifier where it won't touch the body or it may melt it!).This allows the reverse unit to trip before the engine starts moving, and slows down the initial start up lunge! One can actually switch a yard with the 355 then! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4495	From: michael prell	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Thanks to all!

Thanks to all who replied to my request for help in finding AC Gilbert Erector Set info. I've been in and out of town since that posting with little time to respond. The future looks bright with hope of some day actually building a walking beam. Thanks again.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4496	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: '50's Chev PU

Here's some GREAT news from Jeff Madden; see below In addition to what Jeff recounts, there is a quite nice '40's Woodie wagon. Ted --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: "Jeffrey Madden" <nasgdispatch@...> To: mhrreast@... Subject: Re: [S-Trains] '50's Chev PU Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 16:18:30 PDT > >From: mhrreast@... > >Many of you missed the early '50's Chev PU from >Mint Editions. It is now available in a custom >version, which requires new paint for a stock Ted, I'd just skip this issue unless you want to swap out the tires. It's a lowrider series. But the chev p.u. is available in red with some lettering on it in the Field & Stream/Outdoor life series with the proper tires. All you have to do is wipe off a little bit of lettering with nail polish remover and you have a red p.u. This series also has '65 Ford p.u.camaflage, '48 Ford p.u. (orange), '40 Ford p.u. aqua, '35 Ford p.u., blue, and some others. jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4497	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: 355

The #355 and the other Flyer Baldwin diesel switchers are not easy to get into good running condition. The original design is so poor and the motor tends to overheat -- there is not much wire in it. The motor will often get so hot that the solder holding the brushes will melt. The loco is difficult to lubricate and most original owners didn't get the oil in the right places, so they tend to be badly worn as well. One thing you can try to reduce overheating is to replace the armature bearings with sintered bronze flange bearing FBB - 2/4 from Small Parts Inc. Part of the overheating may come from the armature being too close to the field, and new bearings may correct this. You should also probably replace the brush springs. If you use PA/GP7 springs, bend them to the shape of the original Baldwin spring. Bad brush springs are probably the cause of the motor running better in one dfirection than the other. The brushes may have moved from their proper locations on their brush arms when the motor heat melted their solder, or they may be broken or damaged. If necesary, replace them, using a third hand tool to hold the brush in proper position on the arm while soldering. Beware of repro brushes that don't have enough copper plating on the area to be soldered. Clean and dress the commutator with #600 sandpaper of course. Clean out the slots. Don't misplace the p325d fiber washer that goes on the commutator end of the armature shaft. The motor will short out without it. The motor and dummy trucks are built on the same chassis, and exchanging them is sometimes beneficial if the motor truck is more worn. Unfortunately, the dummies tend to be pretty badly worn too. If these don't do it, the only cure is to rewind the motor, using more and thicker wire (#27) for the field and more and thinner wire (#30) for the armature. This is described in my Roundhouse column in the Mar-Apr '91 S Gaugian. Thanks for a good Roundhouse topic. I don't have time to finish up my automatic circuits column by deadline and just may use this next. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4498	From: Dave Heine	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] WARNING ..Flogging Dead Horse!!!

Richard, I don't think your car idea is that far off. I meet several people, mostly from the model railroader end, who are also interested in cars and trucks. Some have hobby cars in addition to trains. I even met one guy who had a caboose in his yard and antique fire truck in his garage. He had model trains are cars also, but the trains weren't S. Dave Heine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4499	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Sam the Semaphore Man 758A ( I Think)

I have A Sam the Semaphore Man for sale works great Green lens missing . Has a few scratches on the green base and where Sam comes out of the little House. I would grade this item VG++ but I'm new at this so I hope I don't over grade this Item. Also have a very nice 8b Power pack E- . Make offer I can't refuse. Bill Sandrus Boise ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4500	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: Train Show

Seems high to me. Here in the Rochester and western NY area shows seem to be $2-4 admission and $10-20 for a table, though I haven't priced them vigorously lately 'cause we're usually in for free showing our modular layout. David Dewey wrote: > > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Interesting, I went to this site and read about the show. If I read > correctly, booths are $250 each, and public admission is $8/adult and > $5/student/under 6 free. Are these "normal" expenses for shows back east? It > seems more expensive than shows I've attended/participated in out here > (Northern California). I'm just curious about the differences across the > nation in the train hobby itself and the value people (including the general > public) put on going to shows. It does often seem (to me at least) that > there is a whole lot more activity and interest "back east" than there is > "out west". > S' > David Dewey > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Congratulations IM-USA, our latest ONElist of the week. > For full story and to submit yours, > <a href=" http://www.onelist.com/info/ootw_21.html ">Click Here</A> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4501	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Re: Train Show

Dear David, No, these are not your ordinary run of the mill train shows. This show is closer to a "trade show" where you will find most of the booths (not tables) exhibiting the latest items of model railroad manufacturers. The booths are 9' x 10' and are separated by draped walls. All of the tables also have skirting and most if not all booths are carpeted. Most of the manufacturers do not even have retail sales, just information and hands on demonstrations. They will have Hobby Shops displaying and making sales, but most of the "basement bombers" do not have booths due to the cost vs. margin relationship of shows like this. Although many classic trains might be found, the majority of items are NEW. This is actually one of the less costly trade shows that we will have attended this year. The booth cost for our SHS 9' X 20' display (two booths with rugs, glass case, electricity) over the past year has been: National Model and Hobby Show (Chicago) $2070, East Coast Hobby Show (Philadelphia) $1496.00, NMRA National Train Show (St. Paul, MN) $900.94. All of these shows draw around 20,000 people. I guess the question that must be running through everyone's mind is why we would spend so much exhibiting at these shows? The number one challenge for all S Gauge manufacturers is exposing our products to a new market. Let me tell you how tough this is. It is no secret that most of our customers had Flyer as children. But, their market for new trains ended in 1967 when AC Gilbert Co. doors were closed. At that time, many were either on there was to college, marriage or Viet Nam. Most of them just withdrew from the model R.R. market. To them, HO seemed too small and 0-27 was too weird. Most hobby shops could not help them and likewise most model R.R. magazines had little to interest them., To them the NMRA was just for HO. Today, they do not know that Lionel now makes (made?) American Flyer, never heard of CTT, the S Gaugian or the NASG. This is one group of potential S gaugers (born again?) that we need to reach. And public "trade shows" are the perfect place. A nice leisurely Saturday or Sunday with the wife and kids (or most likely grandchildren), Hell, they always liked trains, and these shows are held in large convention centers (not church basements, fire halls, poultry barns - Yes, we have shared space with chicken coops at York), or small hotel ballrooms, like most "train shows". It is a great feeling to see them walking along and all of a sudden seeing our trains and stopping dead in there track and looking. They know that our trains are the same size as what they had as a child. If I see them, I usually walk over and ask if they had "Flyer" as a kid? If they answer yes, I take one of our PS-2 covered hoppers and place it in their hands. You can see them kinda bounce the car ever so slowly up and down. The mass is the same as a vintage "Flyer" car. I tell them that our car will run on their "Flyer" track. That is the ice breaker. I usually do this 50 times a show. We give them a catalog and a list of hobby shops that carry our stuff. The other potential gourp is someone that is interested in getting started in model railroading, but wants something a bit different. And this too is the perfect place to find the novice that has not invested too much, or is in the research stage of his railroad. When we see you next year in San Jose, at the NASG & NMRA National Train Show, I think you too will see the difference. Don Thompson David Dewey wrote: > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Interesting, I went to this site and read about the show. If I read > correctly, booths are $250 each, and public admission is $8/adult and > $5/student/under 6 free. Are these "normal" expenses for shows back east? It > seems more expensive than shows I've attended/participated in out here > (Northern California). I'm just curious about the differences across the > nation in the train hobby itself and the value people (including the general > public) put on going to shows. It does often seem (to me at least) that > there is a whole lot more activity and interest "back east" than there is > "out west". > S' > David Dewey > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Congratulations IM-USA, our latest ONElist of the week. > For full story and to submit yours, > <a href=" http://www.onelist.com/info/ootw_21.html ">Click Here</A> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4502	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: S Trains in Virginia

Just a reminder to any list members in the area, the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers will be operating some of their modules (primarily those of the Central Virginia Division; we now have two sets--one for Virginia and one for the Carolinas) this coming Saturday and Sunday at the Great American Train Show, at the Richmond Fairgrounds off I-95. Next door their will be an N-scale show as well, so lots of trains here this weekend. Thanks to this list Roger Delthony was able to attend the Atlee (north of Richmond) meet of the Virginia Train Collectors (VTC). I do not know if he bought any trains, but he did get some parts. Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4503	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: Help Identifying Equipment

Last Saturday's TCA meet in Raleigh was really slow in Raleigh, but I was able to make some great and interesting buys. For example, I got 40 pieces of rubber roadbed (split about 50/50 straight & curved) in great shape for $35, 3 excellent Pikemaster cars for $5 each (24125 Bethlehem Steel gray unpainted; 21328 Shell tank car; 26636 AF Lines caboose), and three 1/64" (I think) road construction vehicles for $15. It is the latter that I need some hekp with. Each one is marked on the bottom "Scale 1/64" and "Made in Macau." They are: Roller (rear trailer type; 2 driver positions; orange plastic with metal "rollers"; 1 "mud scraper" broken off front Bulldozer (missing scraper; has 4 "spoked" wheels like a Compactor; "B22" label on side Excavator (heavy-duty with backhoe bucket; complete with rubber "tracks"; has "D18" label on side Does anyone know the origin of these things. The Excavator looks about scale, but the oother 2 pieces seem to be a bit large. How long and tall is a rear trailer roller, anyway? TIA, Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4504	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 8/15/1999
Subject: freight cars for sale

I have some duplicate freight cars to sell. Before I put them on eBay, I thought I'd offer them to my fellow S-Trains list members. All cars have scale wheels (some steel, no less). Most cars are kits that require some (but not much) assembly. --PRS orange steel ice reefer Milw Rd (URTX) --PRS 1937 AAR 40 foot NP boxcar (green, big NP herald) --PRS 1937 Southern Ry 40 foot --PRS (Des Plaines Hobby) 1937 AAR CGW Corn Belt Route boxcar --PRS 1937 AAR Monon 40 foot (grey) --Two (2) PRS 50 foot single sliding door boxcars for Atlantic Coast Line --American Models red Burlington 40 footer --American Models 1942 two bay NYC black hopper --S-Helper Wabash "Follow The Flag" 2-bay hopper (hi-rail & scale wheels) I'm asking $22 for each car. Shipping (my cost) depends on how many cars you order, of course. Thanks. Paul Schneider San Francisco, CA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4505	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: car collectors in1/64

When we are considering the market for "S" products then are we foolish to completely overlook "other" similar hobby groups. From other observations the Farm Toy Collecting arena seems pretty big. Am I just so far off the mark here?? or is there a little potential here for cross marketing in some area of product that is being overlooked?? I''l just go take my medication now.... Richard, I can send you my psychiatrist's number off line so you can join me in sessions ,but that sound like a good way to market some 1/64 detail stuff to others not in the train market.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4506	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: erratic 355 AF switcher

Well all and Busy-Boy- Some of U recognize me as a retro-newby... Anyhoo, attempting to slowly get something running, that loop of old AF trak that I CLEANED, and attempted to use that old Marx Xformer to power it, (of course) I get herky jerky motion unless 80% throttle. So I did the cleaning thing and loco (justa 307 but its clean and the mechanicals are quite nice) but same o same o. Now I M experienced on the web and jumped around and found one of the MANY train hobby sources and found this... http://www.spikesys.com/Modelrr/faq3.html and I put in bold this statement from that site- A loco that jitters or stalls under light loads is saying "clean wheels, rollers and track!" Well to AF folks most likely no rollers but U get the idea... so My recollection is clearing up now, when I got that nice Hudson set in about '49 or 50 I now recall that it would 'act up' even then, thanx to those same criteria AND that neat reverse unit in the tender that AF so conveniently provided a lockout on- there hadda be a reason for that besides convenience... So to Busy and me and all others like us, some of this is inherent in AF (sorry all U diehards); I did not have the same problem in HO using DC equipment, just track cleaning when using brass rail. Check that site out 'Busy' ; I have not tried spray electronics cleaner on the tender contacts yet, but another option for U to try. And tender pickups, If U have no tender then possible to add a dummy car behind the loco providing supplemental pickup if the wheels are metal.... Maybe a work car of some sort? NOW I am a car nut too, and find my older cars, non electronic ignition, non computer controlled etc, require MAINTENENCE! and my 41 has only 6v and 87 hp so if it is not always in tune and fully charged read this to say at about 97% of its peak operating level, I WILL HAVE PROBLEMS. And maybe Busy and me too with our FLyer stuff are not at 97% yet.... most likely it will take a while - uh oh that Four Letter Word again called Time! Rotsa Ruck (and patience) we need it! Gotta remember this is all supposed to be Fun................ Lars PS I too will join the TCA list for all the help I can get! and will try not to be toooooooo basic too often!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4507	From: Dave and Kathy Engle	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: Re: car collectors in1/64

I have to agree-and thank Ertl particularly for what farm implements they have made in the past that "fit" our schemes here. Where I come from, John Deere is/was a major rail shipper, but don't forget the other brands, I almost feel safe in saying anything the right scale is fair game for flat car loads, as long as you do not mix brands, makes, or whatever you call them, on the same car. My survey to PatnDave included 60-ft TTX-style flats, and I am sure the 53' cars and other lengths are also suitable for this as well. In our old days of modular layouts at the malls, the flats with farm loads or other brightly-painted machinery were the attention-getters. Cbtrainnut@... wrote: > From: Cbtrainnut@... > > When we are considering the market for "S" > products then are we foolish to completely overlook "other" similar > hobby groups. From other observations the Farm Toy Collecting arena > seems pretty big. > > Am I just so far off the mark here?? or is there a little potential here > for cross marketing in some area of product that is being overlooked?? > > I''l just go take my medication now.... > > Richard, I can send you my psychiatrist's number off line so you can join me > in sessions ,but that sound like a good way to market some 1/64 detail stuff > to others not in the train market. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist members are using Shared Files in great ways! > http://www.onelist.com > Are you? If not, see our homepage for details. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4508	From: Anormal1@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: 1:64 Trucks

Hi Guys Found this co. they produce AHL andPENN There site is at www.Hartoy.com They are pricey Also www.airplaneshop.com has planes and1:64 Fire trucks $8.95 ea Both have free cats. 1=800-plane-go I still have a American Models 4-6-2 Southern Crescent DC Scale For $300.00 plus $10.00 S H Mike S.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4509	From: Richard	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: too much medicine!!

At the bequest of many..I have been taking some medicine to curb my "outlandish" ideas...but alas I think I took too much.....better hold your breath...... Has anyone thought of..or have equipment and nouse to set up a "S"Train.cam at either a train show, convention or even on their home layout???? I loved to be a virtual visitor to a layout....sshhhh...th enurse is coming....two of the yellow and one of the pretty blue ones .. >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4510	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: Train show and sawmill

This weekend I stopped at the Atlee, Va. train show. It was a pleasant show. David - the admission was $6.00. This is a little higher than shows around my home (western New York). It was basically a local show with the only regional/national person I knew being Joe Haenn. I thought I'd add my 2 cents belatedly to the sawmill discussion. My sawmill came used with two types of boards. I thought that the dirtier boards were more likely the original ones. In any event they measure 3/32" x 7/16" x 2-27/32". These boards look like they are pine, fir, or some other garden variety softwood. The sawmill and the log loader are big hits when we operate our Rochester Area S-Gaugers modular layout at shows. Generally the sawmill works acceptably, feeding most of the boards out with an occasional help from the big hand in the sky. But at the last show in June, the sawmill was working miserably, feeding one out of four or six times. After the show I sat down with the sawmill to see what I could figure out. First, a little geometry of the sawmill. There is a horizontal plate in the building that pushes the boards out of the sawmill. This plate is pushed by the top end of a lever that projects down through the sawmill floor. Below the floor the bottom end of the lever is pushed by an oscillating arm driven by the sawmill motor. I found that the oscillating arm would slide up the lever when it contacted the lever, rather than pushing it. Eventually when it got closer to the sawmill floor it would push the lever, but at that point the lever arm was much shorter. The result was that the upper part of the lever and the plate would often not travel far enough to push the boards out of the sawmill. To improve things I attached a 3/8" thick wood strip to the underside of the sawmill floor between the motor and the lever. The strip is perpendicular to the railroad track. Now when the oscillating arm approaches the lever it is stopped from riding up by the wood strip and strikes the lever lower and further from the pivot point. This results in more travel of the upper end of the lever which more consistently pushes the boards out. I still have some problems with the plate jamming above or below the bottom board, but the modification I just described has made a big improvement in the operation of the sawmill. Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4511	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/16/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] too much medicine!!

Hmm, Richard, you know they took my accordian teacher away in a van like that too..... S David Ah, sir!! This is a snug fitting jacket with tight laces, I don't think I like it!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4512	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: derail switches and train order semaphores

The Canadian S scale group has a deal with Alder Models, a quality Canadian builder of buildings and trackside detailing parts, to make S scale (hirail and scale) Hayes siding derail switches as well as CN and CPR style train semaphores. Neil's address is 76 York St. Alymer, Ont. N5H 2X8 Canada. I can get a phone number if anyone wants to dial him. The derails are about $12 each Cdn (about $8 US) while the semaphores are Cdn $15. plus S&H. The group needs a minimum order before the deal will go ahead and the deadline is Sept. 30. To my knowledge Neil doesn't have e-mail butI will check that as well. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4513	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: 1 in 64 scale models.

> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 07:15:56 EDT > From: Cbtrainnut@... > Subject: car collectors in1/64 > > When we are considering the market for "S" > products then are we foolish to completely overlook "other" similar > hobby groups. From other observations the Farm Toy Collecting arena > seems pretty big. > > Am I just so far off the mark here?? or is there a little potential here > for cross marketing in some area of product that is being overlooked?? > > I''l just go take my medication now.... > > Richard, I can send you my psychiatrist's number off line so you can join me > in sessions ,but that sound like a good way to market some 1/64 detail stuff > to others not in the train market. > Richard, Perhaps I need some medication, too. But as an S-gauge fanatic and a lover of vintage automobiles and aircraft, I too, think that we might just have another market for S-gauge materials. By judicious use of 1:64 stuff we might even attract some people from other collection venues into S-gauge and S-scale trans. Incidently, my analyst has concluded that I was scared by a Reading 2-8-8-2 Mallet compound whistle. Tom Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4514	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: great site

Thanks to the person who provided the hot link to the Spikes System FAQ URL. Great site.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4515	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: EP-5 axle gear wearing out

I am having a problem with the Pull-Mor axle gear on an EP-5 engine wearing out. It's happened twice now where the engine seems to be running fine and then suddenly seizes up and on inspection the gear that's on the Pull-Mor axle has flattened teeth. The first time it happened I attributed it to the fact that maybe the bearing strap of the armature wasn't fastened as securely as it could be, but that doesn't seem to be the case the second time. The worm gear looks to be in perfect shape, with no wear or deformation. There is very little axle play on this axle, (doesn't need re-bushing.) The gear appeared to be centered well on the axle. The little plates on the chassis, at the ends of the armature are in place, to limit the front to back movement of the armature, but there is still some "play" there. There was plenty of new grease on the gears. The engine runs like greased lightening in both directions with no cars, but is a little sluggish when pulling a three car load, and overheats some. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what might be causing this?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4516	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: sawmill

Thanks for replying. Since my last note, I've found the following to help. 1) boards 3/32"x11.5mmx73.5mm (same width as yours, but slightly longer) 2) basswood boards with broad faces sanded/polished with 2000 grit sandpaper, I'll bet a hardwood works well too. 3) operate at 10 volts (using a 12B 250 watt transformer), higher works OK with an occasional misfeed (crooked exit), and lower seems anemic. 4) noticed the same thing about the horizontal plate, vertical member, and pusher-bellcrank below deck. - gently twisted vertical plate below and above deck until got reliable straight feed and return of top horizontal plate (pushes the boards out) - using lineman pliers bent vertical tab (below deck) forward (holding upper section with pliers) until achieved proper throw of upper horizontal plate - far enough that it pushes planks out, but doesn't cause the pusher-bellcrank to bind. 5) Lightly roughed up the surface (400 grit) that boards rest on while waiting to get pushed out - - helps relieve vibrating around while unit is running and maintain alignment with pusher plate. 6) Make sure horizontal pusher plate is kicking back and its front edge goes up when it recedes, and that its front edge is flat when pushing forward against a board (watch it from the front without any boards loaded). This ensures it stay behind boards when they're loaded in, yet doesn't clip the next board in the stack on the way out. Run it slow and observe actions from the top and bottom. Trial and error setting until satisfied. I tested dozens five-board loads last night with pretty near bullet-proof feeding and loading - - even the first one out which seems to be the one to most likely to mess up. Now to make more boards and test with a full bay.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4517	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: Re: Train show and sawmill

A word of caution on the sawmill adjustments. Over the years I have serviced many sawmills that would not work. A common problem was the swinging "arm" under the base. Two problems occur. The arm does not swing because the activator rod driven by the motor runs up or down the rod as mentioned in Anthonys post, or the arm twists as its activating the push plate that slips the boards out. Given that the push plate and spring are correct in alignment and spring tension is correct, this twisting should not occur in the arm. If you will notice, its attached to the base at one point only. There is a pin pressed into a moulded knob in the base. A bearing washer is then placed on the pin, followed by the arm and a spring washer and a clip. I have found that the moulded knob where the pin is pressed into the base is often cracked and sometimes broken badly. This allows the pin to slip out slightly or all together in the most severe cases. For some reason the plastic in these bases is v! ery brittle, and its a wonder many are not found chipped or broken today. Anyway, this pin must be fully seated and the arm snug. The arm must be free to move along its plane, but not to twist or flex or the mill will not work correctly. Repairs I have done included pulling the pin out and epoxy back in place with a coat of epoxy on the outside of the moulded knob to re-enforce it. In severe cases I've had to Drill and create a new knob all together using a machine screw and collars, or a new pin when I could find the right size. It depends on how serious the damage is to that mounting area. If your trying to bend the end up to catch the push plate, or trying to bow the middle to ride on the activator rod, you could easily snap this pin out and have a huge repair on your hands. The arm should not flex or twist, if it is, check that pin and its mount. Good luck....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4518	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: Re: erratic switcher

Ahhhhh- synchronicity? I was cleaning out my AOL filing cabinet of S Lists and have ta read em and stumbled across this one- Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 130 There is a post from Dave Dewey and David Horn regarding fwd vs reverse operation, check it out. Try the archives and maybe a day or two earlier and later too! L. Realize my earlier post was maybe more philosophical than helpful....!?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4519	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: So Long, Ed

>>> Sad post-convention news is the passing of Ed Filer shortly after returning to his West Virginia home. >>> Thanks, Jeff Madden and Alan Evans, for letting us know of Ed's passing, even though it put me in a depressed mood for the rest of the day. Ed was truly a world-class craftsman, and to view his deliciously detailed S-scale locomotives and rolling stock was a rare treat. Ed was a fellow member of the "Old Timers' Circuit," one of the round-robin letter circuits. As a newcomer to S four years ago, I was privileged to learn from him and other S legends on our circuit: Jess Bennett, Gene Fletcher, Al Sonnenberg, Russ Mobley, and John Beck. I'm thankful I got to finally meet Ed at the 1998 NASG Convention in Worcester, and I got a great photograph of him and Gene together. Not only did Ed have a lot of talent and information to share, he had a great sense of humor. I'll always remember his project of converting "O-scale squirrels to S-scale beavers." So long, Ed. The S community has lost a giant. We'll miss you. John Eichmann RMHR Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4520	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: Elevator Info

Here's some great info I received regarding small town grain elevators. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division http://members.localnet.com/~dbard/ --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- From: Ted Schnepf To: mhrreast@... Subject: Re: Elevators Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 11:56:28 -0500 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990815115628.00f94550@...> Hi Ted, There is a book printed about 1942, titled Grain Elevators of North America. Get through inter library loan. It is about 500 pages of photos, plans and details for all sizes of elevators. Ted At 10:26 PM 8/14/99 EDT, you wrote: > >Do you have any info or sources for size of traditional >rural grain elevators (prairie skyscrapers)? > >Ted Larson >Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division >http://members.localnet.com/~dbard/ > >___ > >Message: 10 ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4521	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/17/1999
Subject: American Flyer

Hi, Can you tell me the best way to secure track to the plywood..instead of using regular tacks....are there spikes out there that can be purchased....or any ideas would be appreciated, thanks Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4522	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: sawmill repairs

Trains16 - - are you referring a 23796 or 4-2321? I don't believe my 2321 is assembled the way you described in your note. The vertical arm (driven by the push-rod below the deck, and which pushes the push-plate above the deck) is slipped into a sheet metal base that is screwed into the deck with a single phillips head screw. The top half of the vertical arm is wider than its bottom half to prevent it from sliding all the way through the deck. There' a semi-circular tab knocked out slightly from this arm beneath the deck to keep it from rising up and out again. The arm actually rocks on this semi-circle some if you manually move the arm. I think this creates a range of angles it might actually act on the push plate with. The push plate has a slot (parallel to travel of the log cart) wide enough for the top portion of the arm above the deck. It is lowered onto the arm and secured in place with a pin that also serves to guide the push plate travel in and out. I thought I had the right combination of board material and size, voltage, and mechanism settings (including the suggested 3/8" block), but unfortunately encountered ocassional misfeeds and jams again, so it's back to the drawing board. I think there may be no way around the ocassional crooked board ejection from the fact there's so much play in the fulcrum of the arm as I described above and all the possible angles the push plate might be pushed at as a result. PS How much play with the push-plate and the vertical pin that holds it down (and guides it's in-out travel) should there be? Just a little (e.g. 1 mm) or more? Thanks. PPS With all this in mind, are 23976's more reliable than 2321's? I heard pretty good things about 2321's and saw one work flawlessly for the Balitimore Area Club at a show so decided to buy one, but now am wondering if I should have stayed true to ACG accessories only.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4523	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: 21808 switcher follies

Here's one for you... I bought a 21808 Baldwin switcher a couple of years ago and when I used it on my pikemaster loop, it would go around once and die. Just sit there and make that wonderful electric "I'm not going to do anything" hum. but... when I use the same switcher on my older AF tinplate, using the same transformer, it works fine and will run aslong as I care to run it. Go figure. Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4524	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: 21808 & sawmill questions

Jeff: your 21808 Baldwin probably has worn axle holes, allowing too much play. When it goes around the tighter Pikemaster curves, the gears jam. David, your sawmill sounds like it needs a new spring on the ejector, and the rivet that holds the ejector may be a little loose. I've enjoyed the thread about the sawmill very much. Lots of good ideas. It seems to me that s-list is most successful when we focus on a very specific topic. Sawmill is subject of Roundhouse in Sept-Oct S Gaugian; Baldwins in the Nov-Dec Roundhouse. If, that is, they publish what I sent 'em. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4525	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Re: too much medicine!!

Richard wrote: > > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > Has anyone thought of..or have equipment and nouse to set up a > "S"Train.cam at either a train show, convention or even on their home > layout???? > This idea has some merit. One would have to use a satelite relay to use it. Land lines are to slow. Perhaps in the future. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4526	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Scott Holm's EP-5 question

Scott: I presume that the EP-5 in question is a 21573. Some of these seem to have been built with a batch of poor motor chassises. Your motor chassis may be warped, but this is not the most likely scenario. The egg shaped armature bearing on the pulmor side may be worn, permitting too much play. You can determine if the armature bearing is worn by comparing it with another one. Tom Barker's book describes replacing the armature bearing. What he doesn't say is that it is absolutely critical to put the worm back in the exact same place. Also, I would protect the coil windings from the soldering heat with some kind of large heat sink. It would be a lot less trouble to buy another armature than to replace the bearing. One simple thing you can try is to replace the little cardboard tabs in the chassis with unused ones. This will reduce forward and back armature movement. The old ones may have become worn in the center or have shrunk. This may or may not help. You can also attempt to flatten and straighten the armature bearing straps except for their dimples. These straps sometimes become curved or bent and permit too much play. Good luck with it -- it's a nice loco. I rode behind the originals dozens of times. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4527	From: kelvin white	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Elevator Info

In message <19990817.212427.2063.3.mhrreast@...>, mhrreast@... writes >From: mhrreast@... > >Here's some great info I received regarding small >town grain elevators. > >Ted Larson >Hi Ted, > >There is a book printed about 1942, titled Grain Elevators of North >America. Get through inter library loan. It is about 500 pages of >photos, >plans and details for all sizes of elevators. Fot those who are interested I have a American Models Builders styrene kit for an elevator that I want to sell - it makes into a credible model - Ken Z had one on his layout - I recall the prices as $70.00 but I will sell for $50.00 including surface mail posting to anywhere in the world!!! Contact me if you are interested. -- Kelvin White Oxford England email: kelvin@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4528	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] montly S scale column in MR

I recall that in the days when Miller, Nimco and other old time s suppliers were in business Model Railroader ran a section of ads for S collected into a few pages of the magazine. I think it was late 40's or early 50's. More than now most kits were scale. I think there were lots of scale conversion kits for the bigger AF steamers. Anyone else old enough to remember this? "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Arden Goehring wrote: > > I know it's been beaten to death already. BUT my > opinion is that a > regular > S column in an existing well circulated mag, ala MRing > or RMC, would > be > worth a lot more in S exposure than a speciality > newsletter or > whatever > > To which Paul Schneider replies: > > I've pondered "pitching' a similar column to MR editor > Andy Sperandeo for some time now. I produced the MR > *Donner Pass: A Railroad You Can Model* video a few > years ago.l And I used to work down the hall as an > editor at TRAINS. > > What kind of information and stories would readers of > this list like to see in a monthly (or bi-monthly) > S-*scale* column in MR? I think *scale* is the key > here; too many people still associate S with tinplate. > There's nothing wrong with tinplate, of course, but > it's not going to win people over from other scales > (mind you, neither will AAR Type B trucks under the AM > Baldwin swticher, but that's another story). > > I agree with Arden; I think the exposure would be > great. And I like to think that suppliers such as SHS > would be happy with the column as well. > > Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions on a short pier where > I can take a long walk? > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > How do you enter ONElist�s WEEKLY DRAWING for $100? > By joining the FRIENDS & FAMILY program. For details, go to > http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4529	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Worn EP-5 axle gear

I think I have discovered the problem with my EP-5 499. I got a couple of responses from list members, one suggesting that the axle gear/worm gear meshing was too tight and the other suggesting that it was too loose, so I took the worn gear, the chassis, and the armature out in the sunlight to study the situation. What I found was that the sides of the ridges of the worm gear at the axle in question, were rough and pitted, which could be felt if I ran my nail around in the grooves. This would have scraped the sides of the axle gear teeth, especially if the engine was pulling a load, and would also account for the overheating. What caused the abrasion is anybody's guess. It might have always been that way. It seems to me this engine was never that good under load. In any case, I've tried using a needle file to smooth out the bad spots, and the engine is running fine, pulling a three car load for now, at about 200 scale miles per hour. If this doesn't hold up, I'll replace the worm gear.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4530	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] montly S scale column in MR

Charles E. Smith wrote: >I recall that in the days when Miller, Nimco and other old time s >suppliers were in business Model Railroader ran a section of ads for S >collected into a few pages of the magazine. I think it was late 40's or >early 50's. More than now most kits were scale. I think there were >lots of scale conversion kits for the bigger AF steamers. Anyone else >old enough to remember this? Unfortunently, I remember them well! Age does that to a person. I still pull out my old issues of MR from the late '40's and early '50's, and look at those ads along with some of those great construction articles. As much as I enjoy those ads, and some of the old kits, I think we are much better off is "S" today than when the ads were printed. Lee Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4531	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: semaphores

Alex Binkley did not fully identify "Neil," whos is looking after the semaphore project for S Canada. His full name is Neil Froese, and he DOES have an e-mail address: froese@.... Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4532	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] montly S scale column in MR

Yes I remember the group of ads placed together in the old MODEL RAILROADER, but what we probably need is a regular column such as the "TABLE TOP" column that was featured in RAILROAD MODEL CRAFTSMAN for the TT Gaugers. It included all the advertisments for TT Gauge on the same page. Tom Davis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4533	From: Don Abrams	Date: 8/18/1999
Subject: EP-5

Scott, What kind of condition is the "football" shaped bearing in on the armature shaft? Not a common failure, but I've seen a few where the I.D. was worn to the point that it would affect the mesh of the worm and axle gear. Once on a dual motored Silver Flash one of the axle's holes were located a little too high up on the motor frame. Original owner, low miles, factory defect. This was causing excessive gear bind and blowing out of the I.D. of the "football" armature bearing. The only solution was to rebush both axles on both motors. No good, in my opinion, to have unequal friction on the various drive axles. Rebushing, properly done, is superior to the original design whether it be the early design with the "keyhole" bearings or the later bearings design. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4534	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Hudson 322's on eBay

OK, I give up. seven 322 Hudsons on eBay for (about) a week, and always 3 or 4. If one averages it out to 5 a week, times 52 weeks thats 260 a year on eBay alone? And last year it was similar.... Let alone whats available 'out there' in hobby shops and resellers Where ARE they coming from? China? S List rebuilders? or Anyone have production numbers for them? Might help perspective.... Help lift the fog! thanx L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4535	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: sawmill progress

I made some progress on increasing the reliability of my 2321 last night, but I don't think I'm done yet. I have a couple more ideas and measures written down to try. I'll summarize it all when I'm satisfied enough to call it quits. The area I focused on last night was all the play in the vertical arm or lever that passes through the deck and drives the push-plate or ejector. The degree of play at that lever's fulcrum and point of contact with the ejector in combination with the less than instrument-like precision of the push tongue or rod acting on it below the deck is what I believe leads to the variance in feed angle when ejecting boards. I found the insertion of 2 "T" shaped pieces of .01" and .02" thick styrene helped to add consistency from feed to feed. The .01" thick tee slips in behind the lever at the point it intersects the deck with the vertical section of the tee extending beneath the deck. The .02" thick tee slips in behind the lever at the point it intersects with the ejector. The horizontal section of each tee should be creased/bent back toward the back wall of the mill so it doesn't add resistance to the return motion of the lever. (Ignore the gentle twisting of the vertical lever I mentioned earlier. It's all back straight again. I think that was my way to try and "guide" the compound action of all this without knowing it. A straight lever and these shims or tees is much better.) With 3/32" thick, 11.5mm wide, 73.5mm long boards, at 10 volts, I had no misfeeds. I will provide dimensions of tee's etc. later. I'm trying to make changes that are not permanent yet helpful, so they can be easily undone and the originality of the unit preserved. PS I think the parts and assembly of a 23796 and 4-2321 are the same. I checked the exploded diagrams in my K-Line AF Handbook. Other than the can-type versus open-frame motors they appear the same. I checked the assembly that a previous post mentioned should not have much, if any, play (the shaft from the drive unit that extends down into the base with the spring washer on it) and found that to be OK. I believe the ejector stud (rivet) and spring are also OK.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4536	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Fwd: Re: rrrrrrrrrivets

> >> > >> I'm making a girder bridge and I want to add struts with > >> simulated rivet heads along th > >> ============================================== > >> In case you did not get an answer, the most common method > >> in the literature is to get from the sewing shop a > >> "pounce wheel", it is round with a bunch of points on it, > >> and use it to emboss rivets in thin (0.005 inch thick) > >> styrene or brass. Laminate that material to your project. > >> > >> Ted Larson > >> Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > >> http://members.localnet.com/~dbard/ > >> __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4537	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: Hudson 322's on eBay

I don't know the numbers but this is one big reason L backed out of the Steamer project some years ago, the new one would cost much more than originals sell for currently. Now if they'd chosen the 0-6-0 (any version) or the 0-8-0, things might have been different! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4538	From: L Montgomery	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Portable S Layout

I sent this a few days ago but it bounced. FYI, it turned out that OneList had my email address listed as @... and I needed to change it to @.... Monty :::::::::::::::::::: Richard Snook wrote: With respect to Billy'd idea for a roving advertisement AKA Portable "S" Layout...details are at http://www.btsrr.com/btslayo1.htm .........are there no other ideas....c'mon don't be shy.... <snip> I checked out Richard's ideas at http://www.btsrr.com/lay02.htm and the idea of the wye for the logging railroad seems like a great concept. But the inclusion of a PC made me ponder the issue of automatic operation. Does anyone make a track switch that works like the prototype where if the train is moving from the two track side to the one track side, the switch doesn't have to be thrown? The weight of the loco or car just pushes the moveable rails in the direction they need to go and then they spring back to the starting position once all the wheels have gone by. With these turnouts the train could go successively down the three legs of the wye without any switches needing to be thrown. It also might allow mainline operation to be done without a computer if the trains run in alternate directions. I'm sure there's better nomenclature for what I'm trying to describe but I hope this makes some sense. Monty (My niche: Yuletide Flyer Operator) --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4539	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: trains & baseball

This is slightly off topic but... Last weekend I watched on TV as the Yankees played 4 games in Seattle at the new stadium, Safeco Field. This stadium has a busy 2 track freight line going right past it, with a grade crossing directly outside the right field wall. Long freights pulled by 3 to 5 huge hood units each roar past continuously. Each train blows its horn at least 8 times for the grade crossing, and when the locos pass by the whole stadium shakes. What a gas! The first game, eight trains went by. They had a camera by the tracks to show them. I loved it. Big time baseball and big time railroading, all at once. There 's also an intermodal yard right past the grade crossing but they didn't show it much. Actually this is typical modern American thinking. Oh, there's a railroad there? Forget about it! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4540	From: RxMan46321@aol.com	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: RMC article on San Juan & Southwestern

Bernie works in Don's Hobby in Glenwood, IL and is VERY knowledgeable. He's been a great help to me as I've gotten back into railroading. Guess I should have taken up his offer to come and see his layout, I din't know he was going to be famous. John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4541	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: trains & baseball

Far be it from me to get off topic but trains and baseball is a thread I couldn't pass up. Another great train watching spot is the upperdeck of the Chicago White Sox's Commiskey Park. From there you can spy on the old Rock Island now Metra. Of course nothing beats watching L trains from the worlds greatest ball park: the Chicago Cub's Wrigley Field. So Tom how come you were watching the Yankee's/Mariners when you could have been watching the Cubs/Cardinals? Andy McBride -- whom will be watching the Brewers tonight while wiring his Flyer layout.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4542	From: David Golden	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: AF Roadbed

I was > wondering what kind of roadbed would be recommended for running American Flyer > track. I have seen a lot of ads for S-gauge roadbed, but only one or two for > AF roadbed. > > I also heard that there may be a roadbed that looks more natural than > others. Is that true. > Any assistance will be appreciated. Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4543	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: trains & baseball

There is an old NY Central route, now Metro North, that goes by Yankee Stadium in a cut. When I was a kid there was some additional trackage at ground level and occasionally I would see one or two gorgeous NY Central 2 tone grey business cars parked there. Some business! Tom Jarcho, now watching the Yankees/KC in extra innings.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4544	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: AF Roadbed

In a message dated 8/19/99 3:12:38 PM, dgolden@... writes: << I was wondering what kind of roadbed would be recommended for running American Flyer track. I have seen a lot of ads for S-gauge roadbed, but only one or two for AF roadbed. >> For a good reproduction of the original black rubber roadbed for standard Gilbert AF S gauge track, contact: Rick Johnson 19333 Sturgess Drive Torrance CA 90503 310-371-3887 Some train stores stock this, but they are usually large stores in large metro areas. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4545	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: trains & baseball

Big time trains YES--- big time baseball-- if it was they would not show you the trains. Larry Jarcho wrote: > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > This is slightly off topic but... > > Last weekend I watched on TV as the Yankees played 4 games in Seattle at > the new stadium, Safeco Field. This stadium has a busy 2 track freight > line going right past it, with a grade crossing directly outside the right > field wall. Long freights pulled by 3 to 5 huge hood units each roar past > continuously. Each train blows its horn at least 8 times for the grade > crossing, and when the locos pass by the whole stadium shakes. What a gas! > The first game, eight trains went by. They had a camera by the tracks to > show them. I loved it. Big time baseball and big time railroading, all at > once. There 's also an intermodal yard right past the grade crossing but > they didn't show it much. > > Actually this is typical modern American thinking. Oh, there's a railroad > there? Forget about it! > > Tom Jarcho > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Show your ONElist SPIRIT! > http://www.onelist.com/store/tshirts.html > With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4546	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: trains & baseball

One in the same -- just different uniforms Larry Andy McBride wrote: > From: Andy McBride <amcbride@...> > > Far be it from me to get off topic but trains and baseball is a thread I > couldn't pass up. > > Another great train watching spot is the upperdeck of the Chicago White > Sox's Commiskey Park. From there you can spy on the old Rock Island now > Metra. Of course nothing beats watching L trains from the worlds greatest > ball park: the Chicago Cub's Wrigley Field. > > So Tom how come you were watching the Yankee's/Mariners when you could have > been watching the Cubs/Cardinals? > > Andy McBride > > -- whom will be watching the Brewers tonight while wiring his Flyer layout. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Show your ONElist SPIRIT! > http://www.onelist.com/store/tshirts.html > With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4547	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: Portable S Layout

, L Montgomery wrote: >Does anyone make a track switch that works like the prototype where if the >>train is moving from the two track side to the one track side, the switch >>doesn't have to be thrown? The weight of the loco or car just pushes the >>moveable rails in the direction they need >to go and then they spring back to the starting position once all the >wheels >have gone by. Monty, What you are refering to is called a "spring switch". To my knowledge, non are available commercially. However, it shouldn't be too difficult to make a spring switch from a commercial switch (turnout). For you dinosaurs (like me) out there, you might even remember the article on scratch building a closed frog spring switch in S in the Nov. '48 issue of MR. The same techniques could be used to modify a commercial switch into a spring switch. Your concept of using spring switches for the wye is a perfect application of spring switches. It should simplify things unless some switching is to be done. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4548	From: Bill Porter	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: New S Scalers (was montly S scale column in MR)

Has anyone noticed that the plans for prototype models in the last couple of months of MR were printed in S Scale? Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4549	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: portable s layout

Would it not be extremely difficult to wire a wye using spring switches (slip switches) as someone suggested? Wyes are tricky, especially with DC, and the points never being committed to one pole or the other would seem to make it more difficult. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4550	From: The Reis'	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: trains & baseball

Safeco Field and the trains: An interesting thing is if you go to the top seats in right field they have glass at the back and you look right down over the tracks. The moving cover/roof goes over these tracks in its storage position. Safeco Field is just south of the Kingdome (to be blown up next march) and the whole area was train yards prior to the Kingdome being built in the early 70's. BN didn't need multiple yards after the merger. I went down there many times in the early 70's to take pictures of the passenger trains as it was the Amtrak yards and really still is as they just keep moving it south. King street station borders the Kingdome on the north and is still the Seattle Amtrak station. It is the only north/south line through Seattle with the main yards a few miles north. On the local radio and TV broadcasts they are playing up the trains as part of the "feel" of the new ballpark. And the best part is that I can go early and watch trains then baseball. Now if there was any parking within a few miles... There is another modeling opportunity here with stadiums. My son keeps looking for room on my layout for the LEGO stadiums and other buildings he builds. Not to scale but they are toys. Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jarcho <jarcho@...> To: <S-trains@onelist.com> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 11:47 AM Subject: [S-Trains] trains & baseball > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > This is slightly off topic but... > > Last weekend I watched on TV as the Yankees played 4 games in Seattle at > the new stadium, Safeco Field. This stadium has a busy 2 track freight > line going right past it, with a grade crossing directly outside the right > field wall. Long freights pulled by 3 to 5 huge hood units each roar past > continuously. Each train blows its horn at least 8 times for the grade > crossing, and when the locos pass by the whole stadium shakes. What a gas! > The first game, eight trains went by. They had a camera by the tracks to > show them. I loved it. Big time baseball and big time railroading, all at > once. There 's also an intermodal yard right past the grade crossing but > they didn't show it much. > > Actually this is typical modern American thinking. Oh, there's a railroad > there? Forget about it! > > Tom Jarcho > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Show your ONElist SPIRIT! > http://www.onelist.com/store/tshirts.html > With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4551	From: The Reis'	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: Hudson 322's on eBay

There's lots of them out there. I've probably had 25-30 of them myself over the last few years. When the prices go up or the presumption that they might sell high gets going they come out of the woodwork and off the back shelf. In a similar vein 3 good friends of mine locally have gotten out of the S / Flyer collection hobby for different reasons and have put a lot of items on the market in different ways. The latest being 800 plus piece collection of mostly VG / E items sold as a lot. It wouldn't supprise me if some of this was added in to the same thing in other areas and showing up on E-bay. I know my own collection of Flyer has gone from about 500 pieces of rollingstock a few years ago to about 75 today as I have drifted more toward AM and SHS cars and engines. Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa. ----- Original Message ----- From: <LARSPAINTR@...> To: <S-Trains@onelist.com> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 5:13 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Hudson 322's on eBay > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > > OK, I give up. > seven 322 Hudsons on eBay for (about) a week, and always 3 or 4. If one > averages it out to 5 a week, times 52 weeks thats 260 a year on eBay alone? > And last year it was similar.... > Let alone whats available 'out there' in hobby shops and resellers > Where ARE they coming from? China? S List rebuilders? > or > Anyone have production numbers for them? Might help perspective.... > Help lift the fog! > thanx > L. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Show your ONElist SPIRIT! > http://www.onelist.com/store/tshirts.html > With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4552	From: donrich	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: Portable S Layout

> An American Models switch and a Tortoise switch machine works perfectly as a > "spring switch". I have many on my layout. However, an American Modules > switch and a Del-Aire switch machine, ..... doesn't. :) I have many of them > on my layout too. > > Monty, > > What you are refering to is called a "spring switch". To my knowledge, non > are available commercially. However, it shouldn't be too difficult to make > a spring switch from a commercial switch (turnout). For you dinosaurs > (like me) out there, you might even remember the article on scratch > building a closed frog spring switch in S in the Nov. '48 issue of MR. The > same techniques could be used to modify a commercial switch into a spring > switch. > > Your concept of using spring switches for the wye is a perfect application > of spring switches. It should simplify things unless some switching is to > be done. > > Lee > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Show your ONElist SPIRIT! > http://www.onelist.com/store/tshirts.html > With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- -- -- dr -- indigOhio '99

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4553	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: portable s layout

Jarcho wrote: >Would it not be extremely difficult to wire a wye using spring switches >(slip switches) as someone suggested? Wyes are tricky, especially with DC, >and the points never being committed to one pole or the other would seem to >make it more difficult. Tom For DC operation the only thing that would be needed would be to use track switches with insulated frogs and the switch points need to be insulated from easch other. Then the wiring would be the same for a turning wye with standard switches or spring switches. By the way, a slip switch and spring switch are two different animals. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4554	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 8/19/1999
Subject: Re: Portable S Layout

donrich wrote: >> An American Models switch and a Tortoise switch machine works perfectly as a >> "spring switch". I have many on my layout. However, an American Modules >> switch and a Del-Aire switch machine, ..... doesn't. :) I have many of them >> on my layout too. I believe you and I are talking two different concepts. I'm refering to a switch that uses a spring arrangement (similar to the protorype) to set the points for a particular route and a switch machine is not used at all. I use Del-Aire, therfore, don't know that much about the workings of a Tortise, but I thought the switch machine held the points firmly in place until the switch machine was activated. Are you talking about the position of the train (locomotive) activating the switch machine? I also don't use AM switches, but since it works as a spring switch with one switch machine and not the other, I would have to guess the key to your sucess is in the switch machine and not the track switch. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4555	From: Richard	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Plans in "S"

Without putting too fine a point on this...theere have been plans printed in "S" for yonks (long time) it was actually one of the things that pervasively convinced me to try "S" in the first place....kept seeing all thiss tuff in a really good size...eventually it twigged...I should model in this scale. It amazes me that more don't get the bug from the plans!! >:~)) Richard Bill Porter wrote: > Has anyone noticed that the plans for prototype models in the last couple of > months of MR were printed in S Scale?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4556	From: Richard	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: wye-ring

Though I haven't sorted out the absolute details...but don't see the wiring as a biggee!! If someone beats me to the punch..I'll happily accept any info and advice. re articles.on spring switches...off top pof head...seem to remember an article in RMC..80's...possibly Don Hansen...but not sure!! >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4557	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: used AF dealers

Uh oh. I've got the urge again, the desire to pick up a bunch of G or VG AF Mop and NP reefes to build some "unit trains" for our club layout, the Dixon, Hamilton & Tidewater (the DH&T, "Done Honest And True"). Can anyone recommend a good, reputable seller of used American Flyer? I'm looking for small business (non-retail) internet dealers such as Gulf Coast Hobbies (who sells new AM and SHS, but no Flyer). Ideally the seller is a TCA or TTOA member, although it's not essential. Paul Schneider __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4558	From: Dennis Back	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Re: used AF dealers

--- "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> wrote: > Can anyone recommend a good, reputable seller of > used > American Flyer? I'm looking for small business > (non-retail) internet dealers. Paul: Since you are looking for someone on the internet, I would suggest Mark Premann. He has a SUPER web page listing all items for sale. He has only recently gone full-time with selling trains, after being a part-timer (collector/dealer) for years. He is honest, and if you are not happy with something he will refund with no problems (I've never had to ask for a refund---have always been satisfied). http://www.americanflyertrains.com/ Happy hunting, Dennis Miami, Fl. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4559	From: Bill Porter	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Re: used AF dealers

Let me echo the words of Dennis Back. Mark Preman is a good place to buy stuff. Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Paul D. Schneider <fasttrack2000@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 5:06 AM Subject: [S-Trains] used AF dealers >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > >Uh oh. I've got the urge again, the desire to pick up >a bunch of G or VG AF Mop and NP reefes to build some >"unit trains" for our club layout, the Dixon, Hamilton >& Tidewater (the DH&T, "Done Honest And True"). > >Can anyone recommend a good, reputable seller of used >American Flyer? I'm looking for small business >(non-retail) internet dealers such as Gulf Coast >Hobbies (who sells new AM and SHS, but no Flyer). >Ideally the seller is a TCA or TTOA member, although >it's not essential. > >Paul Schneider > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, > NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9 percent FIXED APR. >Apply online today! http://www.onelist.com/ad/nextcard1 > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4560	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Archer surface details, i.e. rivets

Hi gang, Now i may be the last person on earth to use this stuff, so if i am, please ignore! I think in the last Dispatch there was an short item about Archer dry tranfser surface details. It sounded interesting and i picked some up and started using them. Man they are great! I've been using the .015 rivets. You just rub them on where you want them. If you goof you scrape them off and try again. The are great for: ...applying rivets to solid objects (when you can't easily use punch etc...) ...when you don't want to risk screwing up (you have to apply rivets to a part you spent a week making) ...when the part is too small to take a punched rivet The down side is that they are not cheap. My guess is that if you attempted to do a entire box car with these things you are looking at 20-30 bucks. I have found that the .015 rivets match the shape and size of the pounce wheel i usually use so i can actually mix them. You can check them out at: www.mindspring.com/~transferman They sell a small sample sheet with a bunch of stuff on it for $5.00. I'm using the SD99004 Fastener Head sheet for rivets. They also have .010, .012 and .032 sizes. kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4561	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Sawmill - - done

If you're having problems with the reliability of your 4-2321* sawmill, try these measures. They helped mine and now I can run it within the full range of recommended voltages (9-13 volts) rather than only at the low end. Personally I like it on 13 volts - - it looks, sounds, and performs with the robustness you'd expect from a sawmill. These measures increase the consistency with which the ejector drives out each board by reducing the play in the main vertical drive lever at the points where it intersects the sawmill's floor and where it acts on the board-ejector or horizontal push-plate. They also address the repeatability of the contact and push-pattern of the push-tongue as it acts on the vertical lever beneath the floor of the sawmill (this tip thanks to another S-Trains member). None of these measures permanently change anything about the sawmill and can be easily removed later with the least of clean up required. These tips come with the assumption that all other mechanical and electrical attributes of the sawmill are sound. 1) Slip a "T" shaped piece of .010" thick styrene behind the vertical lever (in the house on the left) at the point where it intersects the floor of the sawmill. The tee should measure 1-1/2" across the top, 1-1/8" tall, and 3/4" across at the base with the vertical stem section 3/4" long. You may need to trim the width of the tee's stem to fit (without buckling) into the slot of the deck behind the lever. Bend the top (horizontal) portion of the tee back about 45 degrees toward the rear wall of the sawmill. That's so it doesn't add resistance on the return from ejecting a board. You'll also have to help it past the knock-out nub on the back of the lever beneath the deck, but with some gentle pulling from the bottom and gentle pushing from the top you can get it to fit fine. 2) Slip a "T" shaped piece of .015" thick styrene behind the vertical lever at the point where it intersects the ejector or push-plate that drives the planks out the front of the sawmill. This tee should measure 1-7/16" across the top, 3/4" tall, and 11/16" across at the base with the vertical stem section 3/8" long. You may need to trim the stem to fit (without buckling) into the slot of the ejector behind the lever. Bend the top (horizontal) portion of the tee back about 45 degrees toward the rear wall of the sawmill. That's so it doesn't add resistance on the return from ejecting a board. You'll also need to notch the middle of the horizontal portion of the tee to accommodate the spring. Mark the tee with a pencil through the hole that the spring hooks onto, remove the tee, and cut out an area about 1/4"x1/4" around the dot you made. 3) After inserting both "T"s you may need to bend the base portion or tab of the vertical lever that extends beneath the floor of the sawmill back just a bit in order to still have some, not much, play or travel left when the push-tongue is completely extended against it. 4) Attach a 2-1/2" long piece of 3/8"x1-1/4" molding (nominal dimensions, actual after milling are 1/16" less) to the underside of the sawmill floor diagonally so that the push-tongue travels perpendicular to this as it approaches the base of the vertical lever. The curved face of the molding helps avoid any potential snags with the tongue (actually the 5/16" actual height of the shim is just shy of making contact with the tongue), yet the 1-1/4" width provides a broad surface to help position the tongue consistently as it drives the vertical lever back. Cover the bottom of the molding with double-stick tape attach it to the underside of the sawmill and "strap" it in place with a 1/4" wide strip of aluminized duct tape at each end (this is the shiny metal tape, it follows the profile of the molding really well and sticks like heck). This is the part you may have to clean up some days/years down the road if you ever remove this aid, but some GOO-OFF, GOOF-OFF, GOOP-OFF, whatever-OFF that is safe for plastics should do the job. 5) Use planks or boards of basswood (or harder) in the dimensions of 3/32" thick, 11.5 mm wide (so they just fit through the feed slot on the side of the sawmill), and 73.5 mm long. Be sure the planks are FLAT, with no bowing or warp. Make sure all angles and edges are 90 degrees. Polish the broad faces of each board with 2000 grip sandpaper. PS If at >12 volts you find the last board buzzing about before getting pushed out, try using an emory board (finger nail file) to roughen the top surface of the sawmill on which the board rests. That usually slows the eager board down some. Yes this is permanent change to the unit, but actually some 1500 grit sand paper brings back most of the original finish. * These might also work on the ACG 23796 sawmill, but I haven't one to try them on.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4562	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Seattle Railroading

Tom Jarcho wrote: > Last weekend I watched on TV as the Yankees played 4 games in Seattle at > the new stadium, Safeco Field. This stadium has a busy 2 track freight > line going right past it . . .There 's also an intermodal yard right past the grade crossing but > they didn't show it much. Two years ago, I spent a GREAT night outside that intermodal yard watching the crew put together a long Husky Stack train bound for Chicago. Sometimes, when you play with toy trains too much, you forget how BIG the real ones are. They assemble the consist out on the street, under the big highway that's moving North into town. The tracks are set into the pavement like trolley tracks, so its all happening right there in front of the stores and warehouses. When they do this, the crossing gates go down and stay down for hours. It was a gas. Thanks for reminding me! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4563	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: S in MR

Bill Porter wrote: >Has anyone noticed that the plans for prototype models in the last couple of >months of MR were printed in S Scale? Bill, They usually are. Just check old MR's and you will see a disproportionate representation of "S" , especially in paint shop articles and building plans. The reason for this is that the "S" size more perfectly (the perfect scale?) fills the magazine page. "HO" is too small for good detail and "O" is too large. Now, we knew this since we were kids, but the rest of the world just doesn't get it. Imagine a world where they did, and where we had ALL the toys all the other scales take for granted. Oh well, that's the minority dream. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4564	From: L Montgomery	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Spring Switches

In Richard's proposed layout (see http://www.btsrr.com/lay02.htm ) the wye connects three spurs. As I see it, when the train reaches the end of a spur, the polarity could be automatically flipped making the train move back toward the wye. Lets assume the three switches in the wye are all "left dominant" (i.e. when going from the single track side to the double track side the train will take the left track). Every time the train approaches the wye, it will take the left track and go down each spur in succession. Moreover the viewer will see alternate sides of the train (a nice benefit for logging engines) on alternate runs down any given spur. I think this hands free (and computer free) operation could be a selling point. I suspect many folks considering getting into the hobby would be intimidated if it appeared thay would need a spare PC in order to operate trains hands free. Another advantage of spring switches if that they avoid derailments caused by the operator's failure to throw the switch. Since my operators are often 7-8 years old, I could let them run trains without as much supervision. (I realize my AF switches can be set for two train operation to minimize this problem but I like to have lighted passenger cars on my station spur even when the switch is set for the mainline). The Strasburg Rail Road in Pennsylvania uses spring switches on passing sidings. That's where I first saw them (although I forgot what they were called). In Richard's scheme, the mainline is basically a loop with a passing siding. If spring switches were used and if the power routing were automated using some sort of train detection circuitry, you could have automatic two train operation on the mainline (as long as the two trains went in opposite directions). Then the layout would really be ready to run hands free. The trick, I suspect, is to be sure that the cars (and leading trucks on steam locos) have enough weight to push the points in the right direction. I had proposed what I called "self correcting turnouts" for HO a long time ago on rec.models.railroad. The responses convinced me that that it would be impractical in HO because the spring tension on the points would have to be very weak. But it sounds like this could work in S. Monty --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4565	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Spring switch whatever

Back in the early 70's I made couplea modular switching layouts, joined to make a 8' x 18" switching operation. All manual switches, using atlas or shinohara and the 'switch machine' actually throw was a simple Radio Shack slide switch, embedded in the 3/4" foam. it could be mounted either side of the switch throwout bar. Its builtin friction held it in place or even a dab of construction adhesive. Was connected to the switch arm by appropriate length of SS spring wire. NOW seemz like iffen U lengthened the wire a tad and inserted maybe a 3/8" V in it, and carefully adjusted the unit, U would have a spring type switch???? Said arrangement worked fine, and I routed power thru the slide switch, allowing positive transfer of power to the siding or main track. U no, its the kinda thing one can build and also use with that Christmas layout.... regards- L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4566	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: I'll be away from this 'til 8/30/99.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4567	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: AF Items for Sale

I have a number of other AF things for sale. I have a brand new TTUX 2 car set still in the original box, a semaphore (brand new still in the box with 2 button controller - never used), a #499 GE NH electric engine (really, really fast but has rusted pantographs), A Gilbert 1:64 truck (brand new), lots of curved track and plenty of strait and curved repro rubber road bed (also brand new), a pair of remote switches with original box (these switches are really, really nice - I haven't ever seen a cleaner pair and box is perfect), and one manual switch. I also have a mint condition floodlight tower (the harder to find one with the plastic house) with original box, several remove and manual uncouplers, and a 15B transformer. Let me know if you are interested in any of this before I put it up on eBay. Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------ Jon Marinello Email jon.marinello@... Web: http://home.earthlink.net/~sbsgauger/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4568	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: recommendations- transformer, power pac, etc

Well being at the end of my rope with my 302 and 307 and old trak and 'new' AF Xformer, am about ready to jump into modern trak, motive power, and controls. Looks like an American models Pacific, or maybe a GG1 ???? I had considered Gargraves new sectional trak just so I could run Flyer stuff.. and the Flyer Pacific evidently has a fine sound system etc. Sets include trak of which I am not sure about...and the S List FAQ says its brass which is not too exciting....and no info on their site about switches, etc. ANY input on the brand along with suggestions ( U all remember those things or decisions you would change....) And if one cares to use any operating cars (cattle loader, baggage pickup, etc) evidently one is able to do this if they go to DC operation by running AC to the pickup alongside the track? Thanx in advance from those experienced modelers. regards Lars Confidentiality honored for those sending private e mailz! If all else fails I kin get a nice O Ga plastic christmas set for about $150

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4569	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Re: Seattle Railroading

Were they all husky stack cars. You do know that all husky stack cars are container cars but all container cars are NOT husky stack cars. Larry busy-boy wrote: > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > > Tom Jarcho wrote: > > Last weekend I watched on TV as the Yankees played 4 games in Seattle at > > the new stadium, Safeco Field. This stadium has a busy 2 track freight > > line going right past it . . .There 's also an intermodal yard right past > the grade crossing but > > they didn't show it much. > > Two years ago, I spent a GREAT night outside that intermodal yard watching > the crew put together a long Husky Stack train bound for Chicago. > Sometimes, when you play with toy trains too much, you forget how BIG the > real ones are. They assemble the consist out on the street, under the big > highway that's moving North into town. The tracks are set into the pavement > like trolley tracks, so its all happening right there in front of the stores > and warehouses. When they do this, the crossing gates go down and stay down > for hours. It was a gas. > > Thanks for reminding me! > Chris Zizzo > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Start a new ONElist list & you can WIN great prizes! > For details on ONElist�s NEW FRIENDS & FAMILY program, go to > http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4570	From: Fred Alles	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Oil derrick repairs

I finally found a damaged 773 Oil Derrick that I think I can mix and match parts to make one good one using another damaged one I have already. Problem, how do you take them apart? I don't want to force anything and break railings and tower structure any more than they are. I do need at least take the bottom off both and swap them and then replace the railings (both top and middle floors) off one if I can. I could get replacements for them if possible. Will super glue remover work on the tower and rail section attach points? Or will it destroy the plastic? I hate to pry too hard. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Fred Alles

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4571	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: oil derrick repairs

I'm not that familiar with the oil derrick but cemented plastic joints such as the lamp base on the aircraft beacon and floodlight towers can usually be separated. Carefully apply a fast liquid plastic cement such as Tenax or Pro weld (not Testors') to the joint with a pipette. This should soften the joint -- then slowly pull the two sides apart.There are pipettes made for this purpose which consist of a glass body and a metal tip. Several applications of cement may be necessary. It is a procedure that can cause a lot of damage if the fast flowing cement is not carefully controlled with the pipette. Less is more; experience is the best teacher, etc Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4572	From: Train Collectors Association	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: AF S auction

FYI Sept 18, 1999 auction <http://www.maurerail.com/asp/auction.asp> Interesting assortment. Cheers, Ron M

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4573	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Re: Seattle Railroading

Larry Jackman wrote: >Were they all husky stack cars? You do know that all husky stack cars are >container cars but all container cars are NOT husky stack cars. Now, Larry, I am going to assume you are jerking my leg when you ask me to be specific about a string of container cars I saw being made up into a train more than two years ago. My motto is: "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." While some folks might think that means I'm exercising a license to exaggerate (and sometimes I am), mostly it means I don't let fine details muck up a good overall experience. Now, as an "S" gauger, I really don't come from a world where container cars are anything but "Husky Stacks", since the only commercially available well car kit, marketed by Des Plaines Hobbies, is indeed a "Husky". Perhaps there exist some others in brass, but I have never seen them. American Models spine cars are not designed for containers, but for wheeled trailer bodies. Likewise for Lionel's 027 Intermodal with "S" trucks. TOFC's from SHS round out the intermodal "S" gauge universe. There ain't much else. So I guess I wouldn't know another type if I tripped over it! What are those ones with the wrap-around end bulkheads? Someone told me that they are the old style Huskies. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4574	From: Richard	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: spring switches and PC operation

Fancy me posting another message!! In the post from Monty below (snipped) some very good points (sic) are raised. Monty has caughton to theh primary idea for the engineering of the wye...as loco and whatever enter each of the two effective dead end spurs of the wye, the train is sensed, stopeed, polarity switched, train continues on down the other leg and so on... As is happens I was having this very convo yesterday with a mate (aussie for good friend) who will now come on board and help me make all this a reality..( (and he's a devout "N" scaler, well for the time being !! <vbg>) . The Wye thing ties in with PC control..this is how I explained it to Bill (my new co-builder, ..'s got a pickup and a big garage...peerrrfect)..any how...the layout "SunnyCreek" ( SC) is designed to be a moving , visual feast, of railroady type action and scenery....now heres the thing....its not actually designed as a MODEL RAILROAD.......its a visual presentation.....yeah yeah ..I know ..you're say I've lost the plot (even more!!) . Heres the rub...many people go to PUBLIC train shows...and they see layouts ranging from ..why did they bother (cruel but true) to WOW!!...Now when we take a layout to a show ..we often do it for what we get out of it..we enjoy the comradraderie etc...but often I have had the comment made to me by some poor sod i'ved dragged along to one of these shows ..."why are they stuffing around with all the trains ..over there (behind the layout , but visible)...they're all talking to each other..no-one wants to talk to me about the trains...they're a weird lot...don't they know its a public display,why don't they design these things for the public.. Get it?? They are modular layouts for the modeller, and yes some of them are fantastic exhibition layouts as well....and many times thes layouts are aimed at the converted, their peers and similar minded folk. Mine is not...its is a threee dimensional advertisment for Model Railroading (as opposed to a model railroad) ...Consider it a piece of theatre with the trains being the actors. Film and TV ads are a form of illusion, they create images...they sell a product..or get you thinking. That is what I am attempting to create...something for people to enjoy, model railroader and non alike..to get some thinking. This is for me where the PC comes in...I don't want to be tied to the bloody thing..I'd rather talk to people ( you may have noticed) The idea is to control the display...for me a PC is a natural extension of what I am ...a computer engineer/consultant (well this time round!!)...DCC and stuff is still yet to be fully explored and mastered, but it will be. The layout is not supposed to instill the need for the viewer to rush home and convert to total digital control...it is but a way for me to automate the control of the display. Think in terms of those wonderful displays that the big Dept stores put in their windows at Christmas..the theme ones with automatede robotics controlling the fairy tale scenes , bringing them to life...do people run home and hook up their PC to their Teddy or Barbie doll ??? (I'm talking most people here!! <vbg>) Yes in the future my "Siskiyou" layout will employ PC interaction...but that is sort of co-incidental to why I will utilise a computer to run the display. I hope to lean a lot from this journey into DCC. The public want to see the trains move...they don't really care how its done, but they'll appreciate having someone to talk to about those trains!! Cheers >:~)) Richard > > In Richard's proposed layout (see http://www.btsrr.com/lay02.htm ) the wye connects three spurs. As I see it, when the train reaches the end of a spur, the polarity could be automatically flipped making the train move back toward the wye. > > Lets assume the three switches in the wye are all "left dominant" (i.e. when going from the single track side to the double track side the train will take the left track). Every time the train approaches the wye, it will take the left track and go down each spur in succession. Moreover the viewer will see alternate sides of the train (a nice benefit for logging engines) on alternate runs down any given spur. > > I think this hands free (and computer free) operation could be a selling point. I suspect many folks considering getting into the hobby would be intimidated if it appeared thay would need a spare PC in order to operate trains hands free. > > Another advantage of spring switches if that they avoid derailments caused by the operator's failure to throw the switch. Since my operators are often 7-8 years old, I could let them run trains without as much supervision. (I realize my AF switches can be set for two train operation to minimize this problem but I like to have lighted passenger cars on my station spur even when the switch is set for the mainline). > > Then the layout would really be ready to run hands free. The trick, I suspect, is to be sure that the cars (and leading trucks on steam locos) have enough weight to push the points in the right direction. > > I had proposed what I called "self correcting turnouts" for HO a long time ago on rec.models.railroad. The responses convinced me that that it would be impractical in HO because the spring tension on the points would have to be very weak. But it sounds like this could work in S. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4575	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Re: Seattle Railroading

Yes I am pulling your leg just a little. But husky stack cars are Gunderson cars and they would not like you calling all container cars husky stacks just like the makers kleenex do not like you calling all facial tissues Kleenex. Know what I mean Yes I know all about the S scale container cars as S Scale America produced them here in Kenmore Wa befor they were sold to Des Plains hobbies. Larry busy-boy wrote: > Larry Jackman wrote: > >Were they all husky stack cars? You do know that all husky stack cars are > >container cars but all container cars are NOT husky stack cars. > > Now, Larry, I am going to assume you are jerking my leg when you ask me to > be specific about a string of container cars I saw being made up into a > train more than two years ago. My motto is: "Never let the truth get in the > way of a good story." While some folks might think that means I'm > exercising a license to exaggerate (and sometimes I am), mostly it means I > don't let fine details muck up a good overall experience. > > Now, as an "S" gauger, I really don't come from a world where container cars > are anything but "Husky Stacks", since the only commercially available well > car kit, marketed by Des Plaines Hobbies, is indeed a "Husky". Perhaps > there exist some others in brass, but I have never seen them. American > Models spine cars are not designed for containers, but for wheeled trailer > bodies. Likewise for Lionel's 027 Intermodal with "S" trucks. TOFC's from > SHS round out the intermodal "S" gauge universe. There ain't much else. > So I guess I wouldn't know another type if I tripped over it! > > What are those ones with the wrap-around end bulkheads? Someone told me > that they are the old style Huskies. > > Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4576	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Refurbishing a Touched-Up Boiler Shell

Just received my first 293 NY New Haven & Hartford diecast engine. Yeah, got it from "Sittin' On The Dock of the 'Bay" (as in ebay!!) :-) The pieces are all there, but the engine had a bunch of chipped and scratched spots that someone touched up with gobs of flat black. I do not want to remove any more of the original paint than absolutely necessary. How might I remove these gooky, thick gobs of touchup so I can dab on some Scalecoat Loco Black? I find this paint does a super job. A friend taught me to use a Q-Tip to dab it on, and the paintover spot disappears in to the old finish. Anyway....should I try a Dremel, or 600 grit paper, or what? thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4577	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: retouched boiler

Either scrape off the bad paint spots with an xacto knife or use an xacto or other miniature belt sander which is a tool about the size of a ball point pen that can take narrow belts of sandpaper. Or just use narrow strips of sandpaper. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4578	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: Re: recommendations- transformer, power pac, etc

I use and our club uses a lot of AM code 148 flex track. For hirail aand Flyer I also use 2 AM switches on my club modules, which are also part of my home layout, and one more on a permanent section of my home layout, for hirail. The AM switches and sectional or flex track work fine for hirail and Flyer. For scale and newer hirail trackage on our modules we also use AM code 148 flextrack with BK Industries and Terry Harrison code nickel silver code 148 closing frog switches which handle scale, hirail and Flyer. The ballasted code 148 looks good with scale equipment even though the rivet counters are probably aghast at the sacrilege of using "oversize" rail. I agree that the brass is not a big turn-on but otherwise the track system is excellent. IMHO you need roadbed and ballast to make the track really presentable. You can see some pictures of the finished installation on my website listed below. I also use some Gargraves track and a few switches on my home layout and like the track despite the oversize rail. The ballasting again improves the appearance tremendously. I find Flyer switches easier to install than fitting switch machines to Gargraves switches so I have used Gargraves mainly where I wanted the gentler transition. Note that Gargraves switches take up a lot of track length. On another section of my layout I use Flyer track with rubber roadbed. I think it improves the appearance a lot over bare Flyer track. So you have to make some choices, but you really can't go wrong whatever you do if you're satisfied with the appearance. You're the superintendant! LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Well being at the end of my rope with my 302 and 307 and old trak and 'new' > AF Xformer, am about ready to jump into modern trak, motive power, and > controls. > > Looks like an American models Pacific, or maybe a GG1 ???? > I had considered Gargraves new sectional trak just so I could run Flyer > stuff.. > and the Flyer Pacific evidently has a fine sound system etc. > Sets include trak of which I am not sure about...and the S List FAQ says its > brass which is not too exciting....and no info on their site about switches, > etc. > ANY input on the brand along with suggestions > ( U all remember those things or decisions you would change....) > And if one cares to use any operating cars (cattle loader, baggage pickup, > etc) evidently one is able to do this if they go to DC operation by running > AC to the pickup alongside the track? > Thanx in advance from those experienced modelers. > > regards > Lars > Confidentiality honored for those sending private e mailz! > If all else fails I kin get a nice O Ga plastic christmas set for about $150 > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: the best place to EXPLORE topics, SHARE ideas, and > CONNECT to people with the same interests. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4579	From: lifetalk.radio@cwix.com	Date: 8/20/1999
Subject: re-converted to S

As a child in the early 50s, my father had a large AF layout. In the 60s I defected to HO. In the 70s-90s I acquired an extensive N scale interest. Turned 50 in the late 90s and have spent thousands $$$ rediscovering AF and S gauge. to me the interesting this is that my wife, who was born the year AF went out of business, much prefers S gauge. Good for her, good for me, good for S gauge! Dwight

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4580	From: Scott Brown	Date: 8/21/1999
Subject: Re: Used AF Dealers

Paul, I would recommend the Vienna Station at: http://trainmarket.com I have been very satisfied with my purchases from them. They are local to me, so i can always go and see the pieces first hand, but they also do mail order. Prices are fair and Ray will always look for something you want that is not on his list. Vienna Station sells AF-pre and post war, Standard Gauge, Marx,Plasticville, and more. I highly recommend him. Scott Brown sbrown56@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4581	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/21/1999
Subject: HOW WE CAME TO S GAUGE

The question was raised on the S-Scale list of how we came to S-Gauge or more specifically S-Scale. My family set up "L" under the Christmas tree in the 30s and 40s and put them away on New Years Day. As an aspiring young architect, I was interested in the scale look of buildings and trains so in 1952 I bought my first Gilbert 0-8-0 switcher set. When I went to college,in 1959, I packed the trains in a trunk for the next 30 years. When I set them up in 1989 as a Flyer layout, I wasn't satisfied with the look so I choose my childhood environs (Stony Creek Branchline of the Reading Railroad) as the prototype and started to model buildings and scenery using hi-rail track and Gilbert trains. I have a diesel engine and caboose painted for the Reading 50s era. With 80 to 100 pieces of Gilbert I can understand why some would sell everything for a few good brass pieces painted in their prototype. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4582	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/21/1999
Subject: Re: HOW WE CAME TO S GAUGE

As a kid, I had a real love for all trains. The New York & Long Branch ran behind our house (Laurence Harbor, NJ) where in the mid 50's PRR K-4's, Baldwin Sharks, E-7's, CNJ camelbacks and later Trainmasters gave me a daily dose of neat trains. I first had Marx, but in 1955, my parents bought me an American Flyer 5510T New Mountaineer Freight set. I never did find out what mountain my C&NW 283 pacific ever climbed, but it was my introduction to S Scale model railroading. Every year after that I asked for more trains for Christmas, and regrettably I received more plasticville. It was not until I was an adult, out of school and had a son of my own before I started to find more American Flyer. First it was flea markets and next it was going through newspaper classified ads. I found a Lionel collector (Wally Engstrom) who had both for sale and I purchased what AF I could afford. He found out I had a knack for fixing trains, so then I started repairing Lionel and using repair credits to buy AF. One day he had four assembled S Scale kits and asked me if I was interested. One was a AT&SF wooden reefer using paper CD sides with metal detail parts. As I looked it over, I noted the smaller couplers, spring trucks, ribbed back wheels and operating icing (roof) hatches. I had previously picked out a #982 State of Maine boxcar as my next purchase. Wally said that the 4 scale cars were $20 bucks, the same as the #982 (That was really the going price for an excellent #982 in 1974, as you can see, things have changed). I took the 4 scale cars and was bitten by the S scale bug. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4583	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/21/1999
Subject: Re: Track systems

<<Looks like an American models Pacific, or maybe a GG1 ???? I had considered Gargraves new sectional trak just so I could run Flyer stuff.. and the Flyer Pacific evidently has a fine sound system etc. Sets include trak of which I am not sure about...and the S List FAQ says its brass which is not too exciting....and no info on their site about switches, etc. ANY input on the brand along with suggestions >> We carry all their products, as well as SHS, and offer free shipping on orders over $50. The AM Pacifics are excellent, with very nice sound, as you say. Sets DO include an oval of track. AF will run on both AM track, and on SHS track. Incorporating AF "third-rail" pickup sections, mailposts, etc, is easier to do on Gargraves than on SHS or AM. AM offers both manual and powered turnouts, but in only one radius. SHS track system will have turnouts available in AF-radius later this year, and in other radii in the future. Gargraves has turnouts, both manual and powered, in only one radius. AF turnouts can be used with Gargraves. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4584	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 8/21/1999
Subject: Choo Choo sound of the 293 loco

Ok guys, I have just found a 293 and been restoring it and have it in running condition with good smoke and the engine runs very smoothly but the choo choo is very weak I can hardly hear it. Any help that you can give to make this better would be apreciated. Thanks Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4585	From: donrich	Date: 8/21/1999
Subject: Re: Portable S Layout

Lee Johnson wrote: > donrich wrote: > > >> An American Models switch and a Tortoise switch machine works perfectly as a > >> "spring switch". I have many on my layout. However, an American Modules > >> switch and a Del-Aire switch machine, ..... doesn't. :) I have many of them > >> on my layout too. > > I believe you and I are talking two different concepts. I'm refering to a > switch that uses a spring arrangement (similar to the protorype) to set the > points for a particular route and a switch machine is not used at all. I > use Del-Aire, therfore, don't know that much about the workings of a > Tortise, but I thought the switch machine held the points firmly in place > until the switch machine was activated. Are you talking about the position > of the train (locomotive) activating the switch machine? I also don't use > AM switches, but since it works as a spring switch with one switch machine > and not the other, I would have to guess the key to your sucess is in the > switch machine and not the track switch. > > Lee Right Lee, The Tortoise switch machine uses a straight wire spring to throw the switch from one position to another. The spring is strong enough to hold the throw rail against the stock rail tight enough for electrical contact but the wheels of a moving train will push the throw rail aside as they roll through the switch from the opposite side from which it is aligned. That's probably about as clear as mud, right? :) -- -- -- dr -- indigOhio '99

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4586	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Choo-Choo Sound

I have the same problem as Tom Rolfsmeyer, but in a 322 smoke-in-tender tender. (Hmm, sounds redundant.) Any suggestions on how to get sound? Does the bellows have to be removed? Thanks. Steve Pendleton bestofbreed@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4587	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Re: Choo-Choo Sound

Poor sound from a SIT unit is usually caused by a leaky bellows. The material is readily available and easily replaced with Walthers Goo Glue. A total conversion to piston operation is the best route to take with the SIT unit. This kit is also available from all serious AF parts vendors. The boiler unit may have two problems. One is a blockage in the hole at the end of the cylinder or in the baffle plate. Check the smoker carefully, use a small paper clip to make sure the hole at the end o the cylinder is clear. Use a pipe cleaner with the tip bent into an L shape to make sure the baffle plate hole is clear and blow out any debris down in the baffle are. If this fails, try swapping the piston as it may be worn allowing air to pass by instead of being blown out the baffle hole to make the sound. Hope these tips help....good luck.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4588	From: Tim Burkhart	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Rusty track

Hello! I recently decided to go big time and finally build a layout for my AF collection. I bought some track from another collector but this track has some serious rust on it. It is not pitted so I am wondering if any of you might want to share your best track cleaning tips with me? In any event, thanks for reading this and I hope your day is a great one! Thanks Tim B.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4589	From: COALDRAG@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Unsubscribe

Please remove me from your list Thank You

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4590	From: Rrman8705@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: AF CARS

WHERE CAN I GET PLASTIC CARS RE-CHROMED THANKS RICHARD

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4591	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Re: AF CARS recroming

The text below was captured from this list last May. Chuck From: PortLines@... <<Can anyone tell me the best way to remove the chrome off of the plastic engines & passenger cars and prep them for repainting. >> Re: rechroming of shells. Rechroming cost is $35 per shell, plus $5 return shipping per order. You may strip them first. That's easily done with Easy-Off Oven Cleaner (original formula, yellow can......not the extra-strength version). 20-25 minutes in that will remove virtually all paint and chrome. May need a 2nd application, or may not. Full-strength ammonia works fine too, but takes longer. Soak overnight, rinse & brush. May need to repeat. Sand/steel-wool any scratches, pit-marks, etc, because we do none of that. What you send is what you get back! In fact, however, we encourage you to let us do the stripping so that we know it is done in a manner compatible with the rechroming process. The cost to do so is only an additional $5 per shell. No additional surface-prep is included, however (i.e, sanding, etc)......just the stripping.. If your own stripping/cleaning proves to be insufficient or incompatible, there is an extra $5 per shell charge for us to chemically finish it. Rechroming takes 4-6 weeks from receipt. There is NO guarantee, but we've had 100% satisfaction with the results on Gilbert shells! Passenger shells.....Silver Bullet boilers and tenders.......caboose shells!.....Mailcars to add to the Silver Bullet set!......etc....etc. Have NEVER had a destroyed car, and NEVER had a dissatisfied customer ! MC/VISA/DISCOVER/AMEX accepted. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html We are an all S-gauge Model RR Shop !! How can we help you ????? PORT LINES offers three different catalogs: (a) our 66-page American Flyer� Parts Catalog; (b) our 20+ page Used American Flyer� Sales List; (c) our 48 page New S-Gauge Equipment Catalog. AF Parts Catalog is $3.00; Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each; or a set of all three catalogs is $6, postpaid.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4592	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] AM

Amen to that! Where would S be today without Ron's American Models? I especially like the fact that I can get some cars more modern than 1950's shorties. Some AM spine cars, modern bpxcars, modern tank cars, 3 bay covered hoppers by AM and PRS plus Des Plaines container cars get me a train that looks like it at least belongs in this half of the century. Roy Hoffman wrote: > > From: "Roy Hoffman" <rhoffman@...> > > Whoa! The mass-marketers in HO like Life-like & Bachman, etc. have been > doing it for years. You can't mass produce a loco or car and have each one > custom-tailored for a particular road. That's what brass imports are for. AM > bashing won't help when we need the mass production necessary to expand our > scale. Whenever I see a car that turns out to be way off, I just repaint it > for my own pike. I get lots of rolling stock that way. > Roy -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4593	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: How we came to S-Gauge

I read Glenn Ritter's and Don Thompson's comments on how they came to S-Gauge and recalled how I did. My dad, who was employed at the Reading locomotive shops on Sixth Street in Reading, PA, was a long-time American Flyer enthusiast. From as far back as I can remember he set up a Flyer O-Gauge layout for Christmas of every year. Pop had two AF trains, a New York Central J3a Hudson passenger outfit (with green clerestory roofed coaches) and a Pennsylvania K5 Pacific freight set. The freight train, as I remember, consisted of a yellow hopper car, Shell tank car, a red and white box car, floodlight car, log car, and caboose. The Pacific, incidently, had a choo-choo sound unit in the tender. He also had a talking station with this outfit and a couple of electrically actuated switches. Of the rest of whatever he had on the layout I have no recollection. Also, I grew up in Schuylkill Haven, PA, a town served by three raillroads: Reading Pennsylvania, and Lehigh Valley. I was surrounded by trains, although possibly because most of my family worked for the Reading that line was my favorite. The Lehigh Valley's final run through town was in 1953, and the Pennsylvania ceased operations perhaps 20 years later. Christmas 1948 he gave me my first S-Gauge Flyer, a New York Central J3a Hudson numbered 322. (Lars, take note... this one will not be for sale through EBay :-).) It was a freight set with a Missouri Pacific cattle car, log car, floodlight car, and Reading caboose. The next year he gave me a 322AC Hudson passenger set with red New Haven coaches. This outft featured an operating mail pickup car. The 322AC also came with a load of accessories including a semaphore, aircraft beacon, ta;lking station, and a lot more. From 1948 through 1954 I got a new train set and accessories each year. In 1958 Pop went into HO with a Tycho "General" setup. That year he also gave me my first HO train, a Gilbert Pennsylvania 0-6-0 switcher. The S-Gauge got packed away until Sylvia and I married in 1966. Our first Christmas I decided to set up my HO stuff on a 4X8 plywood platform in the livingroom of our apartment. I had almost completed the circle of track when Sylvia discovered my S-Gauge stuff. She asked me to put up the "big trains," so I took down the HO snap track and put up a loop of Flyer track. I set my original 322 Hudson on the track and powered her up. Smoke poured out of the cab, and I thought that she was dead. I shut down and took the locomotive off the track. I put the 322AC on and powered it up. She ran like a charm. Over the years I have, on occasion, operated HO, but I always return to my Flyer stuff. Incidently, my last "Christmas gift" Flyer was a Casey Jones Pikemaster outfit that Sylvia bought for me in 1966. The cheapening of the product that took place after the demise of A.C. Gilbert is really evident in this train. The reversing unit is a real piece of work, in that you can be running her at speed when, suddenly, she is going in reverse, usually with the cars dumped behind her. She was not, however, my last "new" Flyer. In the early 1970s, a Naftzinger's furniture store in Centerport, PA went out of business following the death of its owner (who, incidently, also was the local funeral director). When the estate was sold at auction, an American Flyer train set was listed in the inventory. My family and I went to the auction where I got the brand new, in the box 322 Hudson 322 freight set that was apparently a leftover from 1948. It was identical to my first Flyer outfit that Pop gave me with the exception of the operating side dump coal car, the entire stock of Flyer straight and curved track, and mucho rubber roadbed for the track. And, get this,got the stuff for $40. When I got home with the set I called my Dad who came and checked it out. I asked him about the log car that apparently replaced the side dump coal car. He told me that te exchange was made because Mom told him that she didn't want coal ground into her rugs. It seems that when I played with Pop's O-Gauge Flyers I apparently put real coal into the yellow hopper and occasionally dumped the load, whether through the hoppers or over the top. Anyway, he did it to keep peace in the family. In the intervening years I bought many AF trains at local train meets. Although I am attracted to S scale, high rail is as close as I will ever get to scale operation because of my heavy investment in Flyer. About 20 years ago an S scale enthusiast advised me to sell off most of my collection and work at "modifying" the remainder to scale standards. However, with the seven train sets Pop gave me back in the forties and fifties and sentimental attachments to other sets I just cannot see myself going that route. I will stick to my Flyer and possibly Gargraves track. That's how I got into S Gauge. W. Thomas Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4594	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Test /AF Truck wanted

Just testing my computer connection with this forum. While I am here. I need an original lead truck for loco 290 made in 1952. Mine got a bent axel. I made a substitute (axel) which works OK, but it is not the same as the original. Just an axel would be OK if it is reasonably easy to install and looks original. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4595	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: FREE RAILROAD ADVERTISING?

This came to me through a blind copy. Did it reach everyone on the lists? Admin@... wrote: Dear Railroad Hobbyist: I'd like to invite you to check out a brand new site where you can post FREE Railroad classified ads. While we are busy putting the finishing touches on HobbyHighway.com, the classifieds section is up, and running perfectly. Take advantage of our situation and get started early by placing an advertisment. Look for our ad in the October issue of Model Railroader, and watch us take off. Its FREE, what do you have to lose? Go directly to HobbyHighway.com by clicking here. Watch for S Scale category real soon... Don't have too much fun now...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4596	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Digest Number 344

Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com > >Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:57:17 -0700 > From: Tom Rolfsmeyer <silvertom@...> >Subject: Choo Choo sound of the 293 loco > >Ok guys, > >I have just found a 293 and been restoring it and have it in running >condition with good smoke and the engine runs very smoothly but the choo >choo is very weak I can hardly hear it. Any help that you can give to >make this better would be apreciated. Tom, the baffle is missing or the hole in the baffle or the smoke chamber is clogged. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4597	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 8/22/1999
Subject: Re: Securing track to plywood

Jeffrey, When I started, I screwed the ties to the plywood with round-head wood screws. The smallest I found in the stores was about #6, but at a train show someone was selling Gargraves black round-head screws that might have been #4. You might have to drill the holes in the ties a little larger to accept either of these screws. I have since started using American Flyer rubber roadbed under my track. In addition to quieting things down and looking better, the rubber has enough friction on the table that the track does not move even though it is not screwed down. Roger Delthony Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA wrote: > From: "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> > Hi, > Can you tell me the best way to secure track to the plywood..instead of > using regular tacks....are there spikes out there that can be > purchased....or any ideas would be appreciated, thanks Jeff > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com! > If you join ONElist�s FRIENDS & FAMILY program. For details, go to > http://www.onelist.com/info/onereachsplash3.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4598	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: (no subject)

"About 20 years ago an S scale enthusiast advised me to sell off most of my collection and work at "modifying" the remainder to scale standards." Wow what a great story Tom, What kind of nut case would give this advice to a Flyer person anyway. I was 2 and a half when I received my first train. I am ashamed to say it was that 3 rail junk "L" makes. But the next year my parents got wise and bought me ,or maybe santa brought it to me, a 307 AF engine and cars. I woke up to find a figure 8 in the middle of the room . What a treat. Next year they bought a 336 and a bunch of cars track, remote control switches, trestle set and a city of plasticvile. I was in heaven! As a matter of fact I still am! Nobody would even think of telling me to sell my trains off. Mom told me a few years ago that they paid 50 dollars for all the stuff I have now.Now I'm buying SHS equipment. That stuff is great too as long as you throw out the scale wheels that come with it!!!!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4599	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Re: Glueing track

As I'm working on my layout also I asked one of the deals at GATS in Chicago what he used to fix down track on a layout he was working on. Told me to get the glue in red and yellow tube! Found "Seals All" at Home Depot and boy does it work! A few dabs under each section and in 30 minutes it's set. John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4600	From: L Montgomery	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 344

From: "donrich" <donrich@...>Subject: Re: Portable S Layout Lee Johnson wrote:> <snip> The Tortoise switch machine uses a straight wire spring to throw the switch from one position to another. The spring is strong enough to hold the throw rail against the stock rail tight enough for electrical contact but the wheels of a moving train will push the throw rail aside as they roll through the switch from the opposite side from which it is aligned. That's probably about as clear as mud, right? :) -- -- -- dr -- indigOhio '99 --- Lee, Mechanically, this is sopunds exactly like what I was trying to describe. Maybe I'm missing something but I don't really see the need to worry about electical contact through the points (although it can't hurt). Following Richard's track plan for the wye, when the train reaches the end of a spur and the power is flipped, the appropriate two legs of the wye can be powered. On the mainline, spring switches could be set so that trains running counter clockwise could be automatically routed to the inside passing track and trains running clockwise could be automatically be routed to the outside passing track. Ordinary wiring would provide power to both sides of the switch. The important point is that you've shown that spring switches CAN work for S guage. Now if they were commercially available, I think S would really have something that HO couldn't readily duplicate. Monty Monty So spring swithces CAN work in S guage. Now all we need if for someone to mass manfacture them. I'll buy six. :-) Monty --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4601	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: wHO came to See the light??

Hi All, I've been reading this thread carefully, and avoiding responding to what I *think* are un-intentional "I'm superior because I do (insert favorite version of S train hobby here)" statements. The idea of an inexpensive, even FREE flyer about S is great. But what we have to offer is unique, and Keith Thompson's post said it best; "If I may add, one of the things that converted me to S and has made me more enthusiastic about model railroading then I have ever been has been the sense of community that I found in S. My first exposure to this was on the S-trains list and at the big train show in Springfield Mass in Jan 98. It seemed that everyone I meet that had anything to do with S was excited about their scale and more then helpful to someone looking to see what it was about. You folks are what make S a great scale to be in. Now if we could somehow market that! :)" Well, H... yes, we CAN market that!! A Flyer, "S'omething to consider" or some such title that shows ALL aspects of S, not just the niche you think is best, or has the most future (if we could predict the future, we'd all be millionaires and not have to worry about work-time, play-time OR train budgets!). It has to be simple, few words, lots of pictures. Example: "S Gauge, a size big enough for all, be it rugged toy trains for kids (all ages!), realistic trains for fun, Brass and super-detailed stuff for extreme realism, Scratch-built trains for do-it-yourselfers, and narrow tracks too! Look at the variety of products already on the market for YOU! Join the family of S, you won't find a warmer camaraderie in any other scale!" Then follow it up with may pictures of the different products under a "section" title, like, "Traditional" "Ready-to-Run" "Highrail" "Finescale" "Narrow-Gauge". It is important to keep it simple, you can't list every manufacture or supplier in one folder! Few words, large type font, lots of photos, and people in some of them having FUN! The flyer is just a "teaser" to gain interest, then you can direct them to a main web site, or a "more info" address. Remember, you just want to bait the hook; we have a Superior Scale, an idea who's time has come, it will snag them by itself! I tried to word my example to avoid any suggestion that one type of train hobby is superior to any other, none of this, "as you become more serious in your modeling, you will advance to highrail, and then scale" (that's almost a direct quote from a major hobby flyer) . Although some of you may believe that, and that is what you have done in your life, it is NOT a sign of "becoming more serious," it is only a change of interest--to suggest otherwise is a disservice and an insult to others whose interests are elsewhere. You don't want to do that until you've hooked them firmly into S! (humor, son, I say it's Humor!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4602	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Homosote

Hi, Do you folks suggest "Homosote" across the whole top of the plywood for sound control...also would drywall adhesive be ok to use....thanks in advance..Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4603	From: Bill Porter	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: NMRA MMR

Hi Ya'll, I read some of the notes about the NMRA and the Achievement Program. It is clear that some of the brothers don't understand the purpose of it. I'm on the Achievement Program committee here in the Sun Shine Region (SSR) of the NMRA. I'm also the contest committee chairman for the Region. I say that so you will know that the opinions I am about to express are 'official' rather than just more...opinions. The AP is a popular portion of the NMRA activities. The purpose is to develop and preserve the basic skills of model railroading in the members. If we know how to do the things that make up the program, we'll not always be at the mercy of the manufacturers. There are four main sections in the AP. Within the sections are the parts that make up the whole thing. The sections are: (1) Railroad Equipment, (2) railroad Setting, (3) Railroad Construction and Operation and (4) Service to the Hobby and NMRA Member. (1) Railroad Equipment consists of awards for (a) Motive Power and (b) Cars. (2) Railroad Setting consists of awards for (a) Structures, (b) Scenery, (c) and Prototype Models. (3) Railroad Construction and Operation consists of awards for (a) Civil Engineering, (b) Electrical Engineering and (c) Dispatcher (4) Service consists of awards for (a) Officials, (b) Volunteers and (c) Authors. Each award has a list of requirements, sort of like a Scouting Merit Badge. You do the work, get the model judged (if required) and submit paperwork. The Master Model Railroader award is earned by those people who complete 7 of the awards with at least one in each of the four major categories. I'm nearly done with mine and I'll tell you that there has been far more work over a longer period of time than I spent on two degrees in college. I now know how to make track, locomotives, cars, buildings, scenery, do research, explain how to do things to others, take photographs of the work and how to talk to, recruit and encourage new model railroaders. When I read the thread on promotion of the scale in this forum, I was reminded of the organized plan the NMRA has through the Achievement Program to encourage members to write about the things they do. That sounds like we could use a little of that. When I read about how to fix equipment or about designs for trucks with visible moving parts, I am reminded about the Achievement awards for construction of locomotives and cars. In fact, most of the commentary on this list and on the s-trains list sounds a lot like a disorganized version of the NMRA Achievement Program. Of course, we would have to delete the whining and crying about Lionel and the other manufacturers of our toys, but, we would be pretty close. So, it looks to me as if the NMRA and the AP are actually doing the things that many of our list members are talking about. It doesn't sound like 'self-aggrandizement' nor 'fascist' activities to me. OK, that's my soap box and thin-skinned work for today. Now its time to go eat dinner. Later, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4604	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Re: How we came to S-Gauge

Thanks for a nice recollection Mr. Boussum. I enjoyed reading it. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4605	From: Don Bitting	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Transformers

Looking for some advice on transformers to use with my 50's American Flyer which I have recently set up after about 45 years in the attic. I would like to run two trains at once and was considering a dual control AF but I was wondering if I could use something newer and possibly cheaper than an old Flyer transformer.Thanks in advance guy'(S). Don Bitting Harrisburg,Pa.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4606	From: Don Bitting	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Transformers

Looking for some advice on transformers to use with my 50's American Flyer which I have recently set up after about 45 years in the attic. I would like to run two trains at once and was considering a dual control AF but I was wondering if I could use something newer and possibly cheaper than an old Flyer transformer.Thanks in advance guy'(S). Don Bitting Harrisburg,Pa.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4607	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Re-railers

Does Anyone have a re-railer there willing to part with. If not where can I buy them. New or used. Bill Sandrus Boise ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4608	From: busy-boy	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: FREE Railroad classified ads

Glenn Ritter forwarded: >I'd like to invite you to check out a brand new site where you can post FREE Railroad >classified ads. I went there and typed in "S Gauge", and one site came up: Paul Yorke's S-gauge maillist. So, "Hi" from Paul Yorke's s-gauge maillist!!! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4609	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers

I recommend 75-100 watt old flyer single transformers, one per train. I have a 250 watt dual, the older one with a sheet metal case, and a heavy current draw engine on one circuit slows down the train on the other. Individual transformers eliminate that crosstalk. BTW, I run a lot of hirail with can motors and see no interaction with those lower current draws. Now let's hear some other opinions including what's wrong with my dual transformer. Don Bitting wrote: > > From: Don652@... (Don Bitting) > > Looking for some advice on transformers to use with my 50's American > Flyer which I have recently set up after about 45 years in the attic. I > would like to run two trains at once and was considering a dual control > AF but I was wondering if I could use something newer and possibly > cheaper than an old Flyer transformer.Thanks in advance guy'(S). > Don Bitting > Harrisburg,Pa. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Transfer your big list to ONElist and earn $500! > For program details, go to > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/biglist1 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4610	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Re: Glueing track

On my last layout, I used Matte Medium as ballast glue. The stuff never dries hard enough to be brittle like Elmers, etc., do. Looks milky-white until dry, then goes clear. See your art supply stores. RxMan46321@... wrote: > From: RxMan46321@... > > As I'm working on my layout also I asked one of the deals at GATS in Chicago > what he used to fix down track on a layout he was working on. Told me to get > the glue in red and yellow tube! > > Found "Seals All" at Home Depot and boy does it work! A few dabs under each > section and in 30 minutes it's set. > > John Griffin > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Show your ONElist SPIRIT! > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/tshirt2 ">Click Here</a> > With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4611	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/23/1999
Subject: Mike Hipskind passing

The following was posted on the Narrow Gauge BBS, and as Mike was an active Sn3er, thought the S lists might want to know. S David D. Funeral services will be held for Mike Hipskind on Thursday in Cincinnati, OH, with visitation Wednesday evening, August 25. Mike was 50 yrs. old, and was in New Mexico as part of his volunteer activities with the Friends. Mike was an outstanding modeler, friend, and historian. He served as the Registrar for the 17th National Narrow Gauge Convention in 1997 in Cincinnati, and many of you may have visited his outstanding Sn3 layout during the convention. Mike's love was the CATS and he spent endless hours planning how to improve the visitor's time at the CATS and how to provide them an understanding of the history of what they were viewing. He worked very closely with a number of the Friends, and the management of the railroad as well. He also volunteered his time to staff Friends booths at several conventions. The Friends have truly lost a great contributor, and many of us have lost a great friend. Please keep Kaye in your prayers as she deals with this sudden loss. Regards, Jim Hamblin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4612	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers

Don, Check out the new 027 transformer from MRC. This past weekend at the Richmond, Va. GATS train show the Atalntic Coast S Gaugers used two of the new MRC transformer. They operated the original Gilbert Flyer just fine and some of the newer L Flyer with RailSounds equipped with bell and horn sound system could be operated with controls built into the transformer. The problem with dual control transformers is that you devide the power available in half. On my small home layout with DC powered AM and S-Helper locos I use seperate MRC 2400 powerpacks for each circuit. Two of the new 027 tranformers may cost you more up front, but you will have a newly manufactured power supply, with a generous guarantee, and the latest electronic sound controls installed. Keep in mind the safety factor as no new Gilbert transformers have been manufactured in over 30 years. What ever you decide, enjoy! Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4613	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: TRANSFORMERS

In a message dated 8/24/99 6:45:28 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << I would like to run two trains at once and was considering a dual control AF but I was wondering if I could use something newer and possibly cheaper than an old Flyer transformer. >> Newer.....yes. Possibly cheaper.......not likely. Personally, I currently recommend to my customers asking this type of question that they consider the MRC 270-watt dual control unit, with walk-around throttle. However, I recently had a report from another customer that he has tried out the new Lnl ZW with wireless throttles, and it worked fine with S. He was quite impressed by it. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4614	From: lifetalk.radio@xxxx.xxx	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: MRC 270

I tried the MRC 270 with my AF layout, but found that it generated excessive E-unit noise. Anyone else have that result? Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4615	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Arnatures

I just replaced the armature in my GP-7 372 diesel engine. This engine never ran well in reverse, usually requiring a push to get it going at all. With a new armature it runs great in both directions now. The old armature measures 1.9 Ohms on each combination of commutators and it appears to be OK mechanically. I suspect that rewinding this armature would improve it's operation, but why? If it measures the same between all three windings wouldn't this indicate that there aren't any shorts, nor opens in the wiring? Is there any condition that rewinding would help that doesn't show up when measuring the resistance of the windings? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4616	From: Scott Brown	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: Mr Boussum

Mr. Boussum, I just want to tell you how much I enjoyed reading your story of "How we came to S-gauge" You have motivated me to start that tradition with my 2 sons this coming Christmas. Maybe a couple of 302 s and some freight cars. I think the reason they don't play with my trains that much is that they are afraid to break them. If they had their own maybe they would end up with a similar story to yours. Thanks again for sharing such a wonderful part of your life with us. Scott Brown sbrown56@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4617	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: ballast bonding material

Definately artists matte medium. Avail in liquid which U want, or more of a semi paste in tube. Can tint with artists acrylic paints if U wish. Excellent adhesion, almost matte finish, it is an emulsion which is milky in color and dries 99% clear. Minimal odor, water cleanup too! Dries fairly quickly. Some resilience, helping hold the ballast. As I write U may want to TRY the tube material; it will remain uncured longer and also has more body to hold larger aggregate used in S Ga. Larger quantities U may try discount art/hobby supply chains or even a mega store. Or Utrecht Art supply, they have retail branches in NYC, Houston, South Miami, LA, SF, Boston ,Chicago and several other large cities and deal extensively by mail. OK heres the Chicago #- 312-922-7565, sorry no 800 numbers. Matte Medium #3207 pint is $ 5.45, this is liquid not tube, liquid being about consistancy of Elmers Glue. About half or 1/3 cost of your local art suply store? Further option- when I made my switching modules, I used water base construction adhesive (tube form, caulking gun) which was a tan/grey. Simply embedded the flex track in same and immediately spread/tamped sand (this was HO, use your choice of ballast). Still intact after 25 yrs and no problems with jamming of turnouts. Enjoy. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4618	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Transformers R Us

Speaking of AF transfomers... There's a big jump in wattage between the 110 watt 15B I just bought from fellow S-Trains member Jon Marinello and the next model up, the 16B (the units built after 1954 crank out 195 watts). The 1953 18B is rated similarly. The 16B I saw on eBay recently came equipped with a circuit breaker. Two questions: Is it worth the extra price for the 16 or 18B? Also, what do Flyer enthusiasts regard as the most "desirable" transformer? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4619	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Paint colors to match AF

I'm looking for a paint to match the green of the AF 922 GAEX box car. Does anyone know a brand and shade that would match? And speaking of colors, if anyone knows of other specific brands and colors that match any AF colors, how about posting them to the list, or send them to me and I'll compile a list and post it? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4620	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers R Us

My personal favorite is my pre-war 100W single transformer with gray metal case and red wooden handle. My second favorite is a single black sheet metal 75 watt. "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Speaking of AF transfomers... > > There's a big jump in wattage between the 110 watt 15B > I just bought from fellow S-Trains member Jon > Marinello and the next model up, the 16B (the units > built after 1954 crank out 195 watts). The 1953 18B is > rated similarly. The 16B I saw on eBay recently came > equipped with a circuit breaker. > > Two questions: Is it worth the extra price for the 16 > or 18B? > > Also, what do Flyer enthusiasts regard as the most > "desirable" transformer? > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Show your ONElist SPIRIT! > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/tshirt2 ">Click Here</a> > With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4621	From: Bill Porter	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers R Us

Hi Paul, I like the 30B - it has meters, circuit breakers, reverse unit handles and the same, fine graphics as the 18B. Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Paul D. Schneider <fasttrack2000@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 2:40 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Transformers R Us >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > >Speaking of AF transfomers... > >There's a big jump in wattage between the 110 watt 15B >I just bought from fellow S-Trains member Jon >Marinello and the next model up, the 16B (the units >built after 1954 crank out 195 watts). The 1953 18B is >rated similarly. The 16B I saw on eBay recently came >equipped with a circuit breaker. > >Two questions: Is it worth the extra price for the 16 >or 18B? > >Also, what do Flyer enthusiasts regard as the most >"desirable" transformer? > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >Show your ONElist SPIRIT! ><a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/tshirt2 ">Click Here</a> >With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4622	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: WANTED: SHS CNW PS-2 2 BAY HOPPER

Does anyone out there have an S-Helper Service CNW PS-2 2 Bay Hopper and would you be willing to part with it for some quick cash? I would really like to complete my CNW collection. Thanks much in advance! Jon Marinello email: jon.marinello@... web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~sbsgauger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4623	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Display cases, shelves

Does anyone know where one could get plans for making display cases or shelf units for displaying trains? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4624	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Dry Transfers

Does anyone know of the current availability of CDS Dry Transfers? i.e.-Who carries them? I have purchased them in the past from Scenery Unlimited, but a few years ago it took quite a while to get them. At that time, Don said that they were difficult to obtain. I don't really know if he still carries them. What I'm looking for are sets # S-460 & S 165. I have a set of S 461 that I purchased some time back to use on a PRS 50' dbl. door car (NYC). I learned over the weekend that the car I'm doing was lettered w/Sans Serif letters (set 460) that Despatch Shops started using in early '56. That scheme also did not have the "broken A " in it. If any dealers/distributors carry CDS, or if any NYC folks could help, I'd sure appreciate it. Actually, the set does not have to be CDS. Any correct dry transfer or decal would work! Thanks Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4625	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: CTT Interview with new L Prez...

After seeing this article, and reading same. I found a link at the bottom to "Ask the Interviewer". It took about 3 weeks or so to get a response, but this is what was said. Its brief, and really doesn't tell us much except that AF is not on their minds. Maybe next time??? I wrote: << What are they going to do with American Flyer???? Either go with it or sell it to someone who will??? >> That's a very good question. I hate to admit it but I never thought to ask. When I am able to bend his ear again it will be the first thing I ask. Thanks for the e-mail, -Joe Stachler

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4626	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: armatures

We had a long thread about this subject earlier this year. Must be in archives. Some armatures will only run well in one direction, and will show no variation in resistance reading. These do need to be rewound though. Among Flyer locos, this is most common in large motor 5 digit steamers such as the 21139. Noted motor rewinder Charley Bert once told me that the only accurate way to test an armature was to use 1 V.A.C. and measure the amperage (if I remember this correctly). He said it was quite tricky. Resistance measuring only shows gross flaws, I guess. It is helpful up to a point. However, if you eliminate all the possibilities, to paraphrase Sherlock Holmes, then it must be the armature. These possibilities are brush spring pressure and brush contact, armature position, mechanism resistance in one direction, and electrical problems not involving the armature, such as inadvertent grounding through the chassis or incorrect wiring. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4627	From: Don652@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Transformers

Guys thanks for all the info on transformers and now I can make a decision. Sorry about the double feature but when an old fart plays around with modern technology that can happen.Thanks again. Don Bitting

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4628	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Transformers

I agree with Charles: An American Flyer 4B or 8B 100 watt transformer is hard to beat pricewise. A dual transformer is only a single transformer with two taps. The load on one side can use the entire available wattage, and if another load is put on the other side, the power will drop to both. Nothing wrong, that's just how it works. If a 30B dual control 300 watt transformer sells for, say $150, you could probably buy a dozen or more 8B transformers equalling 1200 watts or more for the same money! Bill Frazier In a message dated 99-08-24 06:45:25 EDT, you write: << Message: 12 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:57:11 -0400 From: "Charles E. Smith" <cesmith@...> Subject: Re: Transformers I recommend 75-100 watt old flyer single transformers, one per train. I have a 250 watt dual, the older one with a sheet metal case, and a heavy current draw engine on one circuit slows down the train on the other. Individual transformers eliminate that crosstalk. BTW, I run a lot of hirail with can motors and see no interaction with those lower current draws. Now let's hear some other opinions including what's wrong with my dual transformer. Don Bitting wrote: > > From: Don652@... (Don Bitting) > > Looking for some advice on transformers to use with my 50's American > Flyer which I have recently set up after about 45 years in the attic. I > would like to run two trains at once and was considering a dual control > AF but I was wondering if I could use something newer and possibly > cheaper than an old Flyer transformer.Thanks in advance guy'(S). > Don Bitting > >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4629	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: transformers

Your choice of transformer(s) should depend upon their intended use. Different models would be good choices for different situations. I build large layouts with lots of switching and more than one train running at one time. I like the 18B transformer because: 1. It produces 19 volts. Remember - the voltage is the pressure. 19 volts gets power to the far corners of a large layout. 2. The multi turret feature makes it easy to hand off a train from one block to another. 3. The turret transformers are the only Flyer transformers with graphite rollers. All others have 'scrapers' which will eventually cut the secondary windings. Rollers are much more gentle on these windings. I do a lot of stopping, starting, and speed changes, so the wear with scrapers would be considerable. 4. I don't use modern power packs because experience has taught me not to trust solid state circuitry in this environment. Power surges occur too frequently. These destroy electronic components. Smaller layouts and display layouts in which trains just go aroung loops without any variation in speed would be well served by smaller non-roller transformers. They are cheaper and there are fewer things to go wrong (such as loose turret screws, worn rollers, etc.). These transformers are also fine for powering accessories. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4630	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: transformers

Hi all, To the question of the "most desirable" I'd vote for the 30B, sorta AC's version of the ZW made by "those other guys". As to "best deal" ? hmm, probably the 2 series, no one seems to notice them, and they'll do a lot of work. Longest lasting? Well, as Tom pointed out, the "turret" types use rollers, so they will take more abuse, if cared for, than anything else--especially if you wire in a "kill" switch that cuts the variable voltage, instead of lifting the lever all the time! A good quality Normally Closed push button is fine! That and another one (Normally Open) that puts full voltage on the track makes working reverse units much more pleasurable--unless you get them confused!! Since our transformers don't have whistle diodes and complicated switching circuitry, they are more reliable and usually less expensive than "the other guy's." Marx transformers are fine for accessories, and lighting, as most of them put out a lower voltage--but be careful, they also seem to be more prone to being "burnt out." Modern stuff?? I dunno, I don't have any, although my friend Mike has used MRC (?? I think) for years, only problem is they're too lightweight, can't pull heavy trains. S David D. S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4631	From: Jerry	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: AF Brush Questions

Hello fellow S-gauge enthusiast! I am getting back into the RR hobby after a long layoff and have a few questions. 1) I need a new brush set and brush holder for a AF Baldwin 355. DOes anybody know the correct part numbers for the item from either Protline or R.F. Giardina, Co.? 2) My AF 293 needs new brushes and brush springs. Again I am asking if anybody knows the correct part number. 3) AF 371 GP-7 in need of new brush set. Engine runs good in reverse and so-so in the forward direction. Drive wheel has only one wheel with rubber (opposite metal wheel) on it shouldn't the other one on the same side also have a rubber over wheel on it? 4) THe Baldwin 355 contact pickup between the drive wheels does not have a spring on it. Should it? The front contact pickup on the non drive wheel has one. If so does any body know the part number? Any and all info appreciated! Jerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4632	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: AF Brush Questions

1.) Brush = PA14A414 Holder = PA14A588 2.) Brush = PA9603 Spring = PA10757 3.) NO 4.) YES Try PA11A956 Just tell either vendor what you need, and what the item number is that you need it for, and they can supply what you need.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4633	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: (no subject)

To: Cbtrainnut@... "Dear Tom?, Why do you not like our scale wheels? And which do you like better? I am leaving on a short vacation, but will return on Thursday. Sign me curious, Don Thompson " I received this E-mail from Don Thompson at S-Helper after I made a reply to W.; Thomas Boussum about a comment someone made to him about selling off his flyer collection and converting the rest to scale. I just want to clarify that I was Using S-helpers scale wheelsets for the example in my Bad joke, it wasn't meant to degrade the S_Helper trains. I love them and think they are great. Following is my reply back to Don. Hi Don, My comment about throwing the scale wheelsets away was a poor attempt at humor.The comment was in regards to Tom's posting where someone said to him"About 20 years ago an S scale enthusiast advised me to sell off most of my collection and work at "modifying" the remainder to scale standards." My comment to Tom was"Tom, What kind of nut case would give this advice to a Flyer person anyway....."If you reread my posting to Tom I had listed how i had received all my flyer equipment , now I am buying your s-helper tains which I run as hi-rail. I don't actually throw out the scale wheelsets. I trade them with guys in the Miami Valley S-Gaugers who run scale for their hi-rail wheelsets. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4634	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: 270 transformer and E unit noise.

I have been using an MRC 270 transformer for about 2 years and have not noiticed excessive E unit noise. It also seems to work the best with the different manufacturers of electronic sounds and have the smoothest starting and stopping features. The worst I have used is the new MTH units. They seem to work only with MTH equipment. I have not tried the new Lionel yet. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4635	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: 1/64th taxi's

Over the past weekend I was into our local Kaybee toy Outlet store and found a 4 pack of 1/64th scale taxicabs that are really nice. The set is marketed by a China based company known as Golden Wheels and they sold for 6.99 for the set of 4. In the set is a 1930s model that I thought looked rather strange but maybe normal for that time period and also a 1990s Chevy Caprice. Both of these I chose not to use beacuse my layout time period is the late 1950s. This is where the other two taxis come into "play". One is a 1940's Chevy 4 door and the other a rather universal genuine Checker cab. They are all painted up in CheckerCab colors and are very nicely detailed. Goldenwheels offers the same 4 vehicle sets in Police cars and Fire Chief cars as well, but I think these are more common with Racing Champions current Police and Rescue series. Hope some of you will be able to add a fleet of cabs to your layot! Regard'S' Al Babbitt-Rocky Mtn. Hi-Railers-NASG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4636	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: AF parts

<<1) I need a new brush set and brush holder for a AF Baldwin 355. DOes anybody know the correct part numbers for the item from either Portlines or R.F. Giardina, Co.? 2) My AF 293 needs new brushes and brush springs. Again I am asking if anybody knows the correct part number. 3) AF 371 GP-7 in need of new brush set. Engine runs good in reverse and so-so in the forward direction. Drive wheel has only one wheel with rubber (opposite metal wheel) on it shouldn't the other one on the same side also have a rubber over wheel on it? 4) THe Baldwin 355 contact pickup between the drive wheels does not have a spring on it. Should it? The front contact pickup on the non drive wheel has one. If so does any body know the part number? >> You don't need to worry about part numbers when ordering from us. Just describe what you need and we know what to supply. If there's any question about variations, for example, we'll get back to you to clarify needs. The Baldwin brushes are $1.50 each, and the brass brush holders ("hangers") are $1 each. The 293 brushes are .40 each, and coil springs are .15 each. Pullmor engines should always have two rubber tires. Otherwise you will experience frequent derailing. The Baldwin pickup spring is .40 each. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4637	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Display cases, shelves

There was an article in S-Gaugian a number of years back on doing cases; I believe it was reprinted in "American Flyer Features." I know I have a copy, so if you want, I can supply a photocopy. -Roy Roy E. Plotnick Professor Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences University of Illinois at Chicago 845 W. Taylor St. Chicago, IL 60607 plotnick@... phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279 web page: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/plotnick.htm "The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May Alcott

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4638	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: armatures

> From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > Some armatures will only run well in one direction, and will show no > variation in resistance reading. These do need to be rewound though. Interesting. I'll rewind it then. I'll also try the current measurement test. By the way, remember when we were discussing DC armatures and whether they were different from the AC armatures? I was testing an AC engine and mistakenly hooked up the field coil and the armature in parallel, The engine ran, but was sluggish and was smoking (burning) heavily. I hooked it up right with the field coil and the armature in series and the engine ran perfectly and didn't smoke at all, which leads me to the conclusion that DC armatures must be different, since they aren't in series with a field coil, because there isn't one. They must have a higher resistance, which as I remember was about 3 ohms. If one were to use an AC armature in a DC engine, it would be expected to draw too much current and possibly burn out. I suppose one could use a DC armature in an AC engine ok with a slight loss of power. Also, by the way; My problem with the 332 DC smoking armature problem was cured by replacing the field magnet. The engine runs fine now, the armature doesn't smoke, and I didn't even rewind the armature. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4639	From: Andy McBride	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: transformers HELP!

>From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > >Your choice of transformer(s) should depend upon their intended use. >Different models would be good choices for different situations. > >I build large layouts with lots of switching and more than one train >running at one time. I like the 18B transformer because: > >1. It produces 19 volts. Remember - the voltage is the pressure. 19 >volts gets power to the far corners of a large layout. HELP! I get bloody confused when talking about transformers. I thought I should be looking at the wattage of a Flyer transformer. As I understand it the 18B is a 190 watt pack where as the 19B is a 300 watt pack. Does that mean that the 19B is more powerful? Does it mean if I replace my two 15Bs (110 watts) with two 19Bs (300 watts) my layout would have twice as much power? What is the most powerful, single controller, Flyer pack? >3. The turret transformers are the only Flyer transformers with graphite >rollers. All others have 'scrapers' which will eventually cut the >secondary windings. Rollers are much more gentle on these windings. I do >a lot of stopping, starting, and speed changes, so the wear with scrapers >would be considerable. Is the 18B the only one with the graphite rollers or are all the "Dead Man Throttles" so equipped? These are things I need to know in life. Keeping the S-Faith, Andy McBride PS Hey David Dewy please e-mail me.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4640	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Tom, Don must have had a busy day, it was obviously humor to me. Oh wait......I make all sorts of bad jokes, locally people duck when I start a story......oh well.. S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4641	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: TRANSFORMERS

Your transformer topic is very timely...I have a 16 ft run..at the farthest corners my locos start slower down and the pick up speed around the other corner....I thought it was poor electrical contact....I feel the 45 watt AF transformer does not have enough steam for that stretch....I enjoy this list learning something new everyday...also I found very cheap balast...go to a new home construction site....the very fine stone used for laying around utility cables looks great and very realistic..Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4642	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: transformers

i love my 30B and 22080 (the 5 digit 30B).they won't, as previously noted, run two trains all that well-stick with short consists-but pack the punch to run anything-the torture test was to run the brand L commodore vanderbilt and all 10 of it's coaches. that's close to 30 lbs of coaches and a 15 lb. loco. no problemo.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4643	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: TRANSFORMERS

--- "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> wrote: > Your transformer topic is very timely...I have a 16 ft run..at the > farthest corners my locos start slower down and the pick up speed around > the other corner....I thought it was poor electrical contact... I'd still suspect poor electrical contact, probably in the track connections. Check each connection with an ohmmeter with the transformer off or unplugged. Any resistance more than .1 OHMs should be investigated. Or another thing you can do is feel each track joint after running the train for a while. The bad connections will be hot from the electrical arcing. When you find a bad connection clean the carbon off pins and bend them so they make tighter contact. I like putting a curve in them. Another thing you can do is run another wire and terminal over to the far point. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4644	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: brush questions

Jerry: your 371 needs new brush springs is my guess. To test, run the motor and lightly push each brush (one at a time) in towards the commutator. If the motor picks up speed (makes a higher pitched sound) you need new brush springs. To replace them, remove the brush mount, very gently push the brush holder bars down and out of the fiber board holder, and rotate the top fiber board with a forceps so the little hole hangs out over the edge, Then remove the old spring and put in the new one, roatat the top board over tho the other side, replace the second spring, return the board to the center position, and reassemble. Ron Leventon has the best replacement springs I have seen. It may be necessary to trim a tiny amount off the little hooks on the springs that go thru the holes in the boards so they don't cut into the field windings. The spring on your baldwin pickup shoe may have been removed because sometimes these shoes push the truck up when going thru switches and crossings. It may actually run better that way. In fact, you may end up removing it entirely. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4645	From: Bill Porter	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: TRANSFORMERS

-----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA <findit@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Wednesday, August 25, 1999 12:17 PM Subject: [S-Trains] TRANSFORMERS >From: "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> > >Your transformer topic is very timely...I have a 16 ft run..at the >farthest corners my locos start slower down and the pick up speed around >the other corner....I thought it was poor electrical contact....I feel >the 45 watt AF transformer does not have enough steam for that >stretch....I enjoy this list learning something new everyday...also I >found very cheap balast...go to a new home construction site....the very >fine stone used for laying around utility cables looks great and very >realistic..Jeff > OK, here is one more, pretty basic thing to consider. It is a good idea to provide multiple feeds to your track. The wire you use to carry the power around, under the layout, needs to be fairly hefty. Regular lamp cord (18 gauge stranded stuff) might do for very small distances. For must of us, larger sizes such as 14 or 16 gauge works better. Also, guys, using brass or nickel silver track try to have a feed to every discrete piece of rail. If there are 4 or 5 sections of 3 foot rail in a block, they are soldered together and one feed will work. For sectional track layouts, the connector pins are the weak link. I suppose that is why they are the connectors. For years of trouble free operation, consider a track feed every 10 feet of track. In a garage or a humid basement (how I envy those with basements) you might want to have feeds every 6 feet. All of those connections might be overkill, or they just might guarantee that your layout works when Aunt Martha drops in unexpectedly. Good Luck, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4646	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: transformers

Andy: The wattage ratings of Flyer and Lionel transformers are strictly mythical. I am not an electronics expert (yet) but I know that much. Believe the reason is: wattage is volts x amps. These must be measured under load. What load would be (have been) the standard? Remember, they were selling this stuff to kids and a catalog war was going on. The test is performance. The 19B is a little more powerful than the 18B but not all that much. I think the 19B is over rated. All 18B's I have tested produce 19 volts under no load. The other big Flyer transformers produce 16 to 18 volts, presumably with more amps possible. For my big floor layouts, the 18B thus makes the trains go better, because the amperage involved is not that great. Haven't tested many 30B's since I got interested in this topic. Suspect they are pretty good. All flyer turret transformers have graphite rollers. They are transformers, not power packs. Power packs have a transformer, a rectifier, a DPDT switch, a tin case, an attitude, and no cojones. Old transformers should be very carefully tested and checked out before being installed in a layout, and should constantly be watched for signs of trouble. -there must be no continuity between primary and secondary and between primary and any metal external parts (cases, rivets, bottoms, etc.) -there should be no loose parts rattling around inside. -there should be no smell of burning. Don't use a transformer with such a smell. -they should be producing close to their rated output. -they should be plugged into a power strip with a circuit breaker and an on/off switch so all power to the layout can be cut off quickly. -you should NEVER leave them on when you leave the room. -you should have a smoke detector in the train room, and a fire extinguisher as well. -they should be well protected from dampness and water. -they should be tested and inspected regularly. No compromises with safety should be accepted. Rollers should be inspected for wear and cracking. Some other danger signs: If your trains start running faster than normal or lights burn more brightly, their may be a leak from the primary to the secondary. Very dangerous -- remove transformer and check it thoroughly. Always listen for strange sounds on the layout. A burning out switch coil, for example, which makes a buzz, or any intermittent or short could damage a transformer. Always be on the lookout for strange smells. Humans are designed so that smell impulses get to the brain quicker than any other sensory info for good reason. If something doesn't smell right, hit the kill switch on your power strip and investigate. Most toy train components will give off a smell if they overheat. Look out for these smells and act on the information they contain. Finally, there is a small problem with the smaller turret transformers, such as the 15B and 16B. On each end of the roller's path there is a plate. On these transformers there is a voltage difference of about 3 volts between the low end plate and the first winding. If the roller is left in a position near the lowest possible speed with the handle down, a dangerous overheating can occur in a s little as 10 seconds, eventually burning out the first few windings of the secondary coil. So don't leave the handle at almost slowest speed for any length of time. This problem does not occur in the larger turret transformers, 18B and up. You might want to remove the back plate and check this action out for yourself. Operating Flyer trains with turret transformers is a subtle game. No other toy train controller ever made approaches it for realism. All this info is contained in my Roundhouse columns in S Gaugian magazine May-June '98 and Jul-Aug '98 issues, but safety is so important that I want to reiterate it here on s-list. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4647	From: Neil Trump	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Shipping and Handling charges

To All: I know that talking about Ebay is kept to a minimum but can someone tell me how you can justify $100 for S&H for this lot (152688052) with the start being $200? Is this a new scam with the S&H? Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4648	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 8/24/1999
Subject: Re: ballast bonding material

I forgot to mention--I cut the stuff 4 parts water to one part medium and had decent results--anyone familiar with Kansas CIty will where Coldsnow supplies in Westport is--that half-pint jar lasted forever. LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Definately artists matte medium. Avail in liquid which U want, or more of a > semi paste in tube. Can tint with artists acrylic paints if U wish. > Excellent adhesion, almost matte finish, it is an emulsion which is milky in > color and dries 99% clear. Minimal odor, water cleanup too! Dries fairly > quickly. Some resilience, helping hold the ballast. As I write U may want to > TRY the tube material; it will remain uncured longer and also has more body > to hold larger aggregate used in S Ga. > > Larger quantities U may try discount art/hobby supply chains or even a mega > store. Or Utrecht Art supply, they have retail branches in NYC, Houston, > South Miami, LA, SF, Boston ,Chicago and several other large cities and deal > extensively by mail. > OK heres the Chicago #- 312-922-7565, sorry no 800 numbers. > Matte Medium #3207 pint is $ 5.45, this is liquid not tube, liquid being > about consistancy of Elmers Glue. About half or 1/3 cost of your local art > suply store? > > Further option- when I made my switching modules, I used water base > construction adhesive (tube form, caulking gun) which was a tan/grey. Simply > embedded the flex track in same and immediately spread/tamped sand (this was > HO, use your choice of ballast). Still intact after 25 yrs and no problems > with jamming of turnouts. > Enjoy. > L. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Show your ONElist SPIRIT! > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/tshirt2 ">Click Here</a> > With a new ONElist SHIRT available through our website. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4649	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Shipping and Handling charges

In a message dated 8/25/99 7:59:33 PM !!!First Boot!!!, neil_trump@... writes: << 152688052 >> I E-Mailed and asked what was up with the $100 shipping. I'll let you know if I get a response. Could easily be a $10.00 typo.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4650	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Shipping and Handling charges

> From: "Neil Trump" <neil_trump@...> > >how you can justify $100 for S&H for this lot (152688052) with the start > being $200? > > Is this a new scam with the S&H? This is from the the Ebay user agreement: Listing Techniques that circumvent eBay's fee structure Users may not use systems or techniques to interfere with the proper working of the eBay site, which includes the circumvention of the eBay fees. Some examples include: Auctions with low bid prices, but unreasonably high shipping costs Dutch Avoidance (see description below) Selling an item that requires an additional purchase from the seller Items offered for direct sale Catalog sales (see description below) Auctions with an e-mail address or domain name in the title Policy: These types of auctions are not permitted and will be ended. The listing fee will be automatically credited for that auction. I suppose somebody has to complain to Ebay before they will actually step in and end the auction. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4651	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: E-Bay Item 152688052

Heres the response.....Just a mistake.... yes it is. will fix it shelley Trains16@... wrote: > Whats up with the $100 shipping?? Is this a typo.... we hope.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4652	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Downs MRR

Just received my advance copy of the September S-Gaugian. Top news announcement: Russ Downs is retiring, terminating Ace / Downs Modell RR, and putting the business(es) up for sale !!! A loss for S ! Any S capitalists out there?????? Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4653	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: AF parts

In a message dated 8/25/99 1:36:15 PM !!!First Boot!!!, PortLines@... writes: << Pullmor engines should always have two rubber tires. Otherwise you will experience frequent derailing. >> This is an interesting answer that brought up a question for me. I had answered NO it should not have one "On the same side" which is how the question was asked. I just looked at a hand full of diesels in the collection and found with interest that 3 digit locos had a Pul-Mor wheel on both sides of the same axel. Where 5 digit numbers had a Pul-Mor wheel on the same side. IE: One for each axel. So my answer was correct for the 371 but would have been incorrect for a later 5 digit loco. Wonder what the change was for, was the truck lifting possibly at higher torques??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4654	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Downs MRR

Doug: That is bad news! Russ has a great product in his tank car line, to say nothing of the fine trucks and related parts he offers. I certainly hope someone in "S" will be able to pick up the line and continue his products and great service. Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4655	From: Jarcho	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: pulmor

I restpectfully disagree with Doug's statement that having a pul-mor tire on one only side will cause derailments.. Double motor diesels have 1 pulmor on each truck and behave. Pulmor tires can cause derailments if they are misshapen however. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4656	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: AF parts

My 472 has pull-mor's on opposit sides of the rear axel on front drive truck, but have worked on a 370 that has just one pull-mor..go figure. Also a friend in our club had a Rocket that had pull-mor's on just one side and he had a lot of trouble with derailing, especially on startup??? >>> <Trains16@...> 08/25/99 02:15PM >>> From: Trains16@... In a message dated 8/25/99 1:36:15 PM !!!First Boot!!!, PortLines@... writes: << Pullmor engines should always have two rubber tires. Otherwise you will experience frequent derailing. >> This is an interesting answer that brought up a question for me. I had answered NO it should not have one "On the same side" which is how the question was asked. I just looked at a hand full of diesels in the collection and found with interest that 3 digit locos had a Pul-Mor wheel on both sides of the same axel. Where 5 digit numbers had a Pul-Mor wheel on the same side. IE: One for each axel. So my answer was correct for the 371 but would have been incorrect for a later 5 digit loco. Wonder what the change was for, was the truck lifting possibly at higher torques?? --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- ATTN ONELIST USERS: stay current on the latest activities, programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/newsletter4 ">Click Here</a> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4657	From: Ron Sebastian	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: S Scale America Tanks have arrived

For those who have an interest, our 10,000 gallon tank cars have arrived from China. For those of you in St. Paul that I told the container was leaving in late August, I was wrong. It was arriving in late August. Anyway they are here, and we are excited. All new artwork for ten different cars in three different road numbers. Start your own tank train. Like most tank cars of the forties and fifties most of these are black, but there is some prototype color to keep everyone happy. Each car comes completely assembled including wire grab irons and feature detailed trucks with metal wheels. Diecast weights are set low in the tank bottom for low center of gravity. The cars are offered two ways; 1)Flyer compatible with operating couplers and 2) Kadee coupler ready with scale wheels. The paint schemes are UTLX, GATX, SHPX, Belcher Oil Co, Gulf Oil, US Army, US Navy, Pan Am Oils, and for our Canadian friends a limited run of CGTX Canadian General Transit. Oops, don't want to forget car #10 Frontenac. The cost of each car is $39.98. All North American orders add $5.50 for shipping/handling. Unless Kadee compatible is specified, Flyer compatible cars will be sent. For Kadee coupler operators we also offer their 802S with the special screws that are needed to mount the Kadee draft gear on this car. The cost is $2.95 per set. Over the next week or so I hope to get a list up on our web site www.desplaineshobbies.com with further descriptions and the specific road numbers. Bob Werre took some stunning photos of the production samples and as soon as the air clears, photos may be posted. Ronald & Susan Sebastian Des Plaines Hobbies - S Scale America 1468 Lee Street Des Plaines, IL 60018 1-800-264-1956 fax:847-297-4976 www.desplaineshobbies.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4658	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Pullmor

<<Pullmor engines should always have two rubber tires. Otherwise you will experience frequent derailing. >> Sorry-------I should have added, "on opposite sides"....not on the same side. I missed that portion of the original inquiry. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4659	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Switchers?

So 080's R far and few between, and 060 R what? We have fine repro Pacifics and some diesels, how does one get a switcher? Have there been any info on reworking any AF locos into one? Seems like right from the frame and wheel diameter its a losing propositon,,,,unless U own a machine shop? L. or anyone have any experience with AC powered SW9 or S12???

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4660	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Switchers?

This is another case of where I think big L is sitting on a "no brainer"! Wonder if the old Rex tooling is still around, didn't they have a respectable steam switcher?? BTW, I've got a lathe, but not the time/talent!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4661	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: Downs MRR

At 05:05 PM 08/25/1999 -0400, PortLines@... wrote: >From: PortLines@... > >Just received my advance copy of the September S-Gaugian. Top news >announcement: Russ Downs is retiring, terminating Ace / Downs Modell RR, and >putting the business(es) up for sale !!! A loss for S ! >Any S capitalists out there?????? >Doug I thought I saw this in a letter on Bill Lane's table at the NASG Convention hall in St. Paul, was very surprised. But since I heard nothing else about it on the list when I returned, I didn't mention it for fear of having mis-read it, and starting a unfounded rumor. Being able to retire is always nice, but I'm sorry to see Russ leaving the business side of S. He really produces some very nice and very needed products. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4662	From: Don Abrams	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: Re: TTRevue Maddox Interview

Hi all! See! It does pay to complain! In a message dated 8/10/99 8:27:25 PM, donabrams@... writes: << Richard, Please, please, please do something positive with the American Flyer product. Thanks, Don>> I was asked by several others why I didn't ask anything about AF. I definitely will next time. -Joe Stachler>>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4663	From: Gerbasi	Date: 8/25/1999
Subject: TRANSFORMERS

In my new Oct. issue of CTT, they make a big point of claiming that it isn't safe to use old transformers (that didn't come with circuit breakers) to power accessories on layouts. I always thought if would be safe as long as one inserted a fuse in series (or a curcuit breaker) in series. Am I wrong? If it is okay, I have a few questions. In figuring out the correct size of fuse, is it right to use Watts=Volt x Amps? So if I am using a 100 watt transformer at 10 volts, should I insert a 10 amp fuse (i.e. 100 = 10 x 10 )? Also, on American Flyer Transformers with circuit breakers, the breaker is always in series on the bace post. So why, if you have a layout with several transformers wired in "phase" with a common wire bace post, does the breaker blow only on one transformer if you have a derailment instead of all of them ( since the bace posts are wired together)? If you dare to answer this, please bear in mind that all I know about electricity is from high school physics from more than 30 years ago. Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4664	From: BenTrous@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: AM Pacific & DCC

Well, I haven't been reading the list consistantly, so this may be ground that has already been covered. I purchased a scale DC American Models Pacific at the NASG in Saint Paul. I didn't decide on the purchase until late and had it shipped to me. Partly as a result I skipped the DCC clinics. What considerations must be taken to install DCC (Digitrax system) into one of these? My main concern is how to deal with the smoke unit. What kind of voltage does this baby draw? Do I need a high amperage decoder? Does the smoke unit get wired into the same leads as the motor so that it's smoke production is voltage sensitive? I would appreciate response from anyone with experience installing decoders on these locomotives. Ben Trousdale

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4665	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: Switchers?

L., There are still Rex 0-4-0 B&O Docksider and 0-6-0 switcher w/slope back tender out there. They come equipped with either hi-rail or scale wheel sets, came as kits, but are fairly easy to assemble. I have the 0-4-0 operating on my layout, hi-rail wheels and AF compatible couplers. The only problem may be that they are DC powered. One of the new electronic reverse units should be able to be installed in the tender of the 0-6-0, just like Gilbert's. Does not appear to be enough room in the 0-4-0 Docksider for a reverse unit. Happy hunting! Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4666	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: AM Pacific & DCC

At 07:32 AM 08/26/1999 -0400, BenTrous@... wrote: >From: BenTrous@... > >Well, I haven't been reading the list consistantly, so this may be ground >that has already been covered. > >I purchased a scale DC American Models Pacific at the NASG in Saint Paul. I >didn't decide on the purchase until late and had it shipped to me. Partly as >a result I skipped the DCC clinics. What considerations must be taken to >install DCC (Digitrax system) into one of these? > >My main concern is how to deal with the smoke unit. What kind of voltage >does this baby draw? Do I need a high amperage decoder? Does the smoke unit >get wired into the same leads as the motor so that it's smoke production is >voltage sensitive? I would appreciate response from anyone with experience >installing decoders on these locomotives. > >Ben Trousdale Well we've installed a fair number decoders in this loco -- our favorite/preferred decoder for these is the Lenz LE135, which has back EMF. Provides really slow speed movement, as well consistent slow speed through turnouts. Our general approach in the units we have installed is to install a motor decoder plus an extra decoder for sound. Just before the convention I also installed one of the new Lenz LE105XF decoders in one of my AM Pacifics. I had it at the convention clinic, but do not have a lot of run time on it such that I can report on it's long term use in this loco. Less expensive than the LE135, but it does not have Back EMF, and as expected the slow sped movement is not nearly as good. A Digitrax DH83FX or DG380 should also work fine. And another good choice might be the Zimo MX65/S which also has Back EMF. We put the decoder in the tender. Also used a relay to drive the smoke unit. I would not drive the smoke unit directly from a function because of the current draw. In a number of the installations here, we've wired the smoke unit relay in with F0, so that when the light in on, the smoke unit is on, and you have a visual reminder(light one). Designed to help prevent running your smoke unit without smoke fluid -- i.e., having the smoke unit on and not knowing it is on. You might check out the convention clinic handout -- link is in my signature below, and it talks about AM Pacific install. If you have more questions after looking at it, don't hesitate to ask. Michael ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael Greene North Grafton, MA 01536 USA NMRA Life Member #5433 Home e'mail: mgreene@... Past Chair, NMRA DCC Working Group Member, NTRAK, NASG, Bristol S-Gaugers, TCA, The 470 Railroad Club For "Getting Started with NMRA DCC in S Gauge": http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cedarlane/nmradcc-info.html ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4667	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Downs MRR

I was shocked like the rest when I heard. I remember the surprise when I first saw Russ's table at a Greenburg show back in the 70's. Then he was doing repaints of AF cars and they were top notch. When the AF got scarcer he turned out PRS and Rex cars as well. Now, of course, he makes those modern r-t-r tank cars. We all have come to appreciate his workmanship through the years. I must have about 20 of his cars on the layout. And, of course, he took over the ACE line and gave s-gauge a critical source of highrail and scale trucks and wheelsets. He is a member of the South Jersey S-Gaugers and it was fun visiting his facility (basement) in Gloucester, NJ where all the neat stuff was being produced. I hope that Russ has a happy, healthy and long retirement. He occupied a vital role in keeping S growing and DMR will be missed. I do hope someone will take over the company and carry on the fine tradition. Roy -----Original Message----- From: PortLines@... <PortLines@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com>; S-Scale@onelist.com <S-Scale@onelist.com>; craftrr@... <craftrr@...> Date: Wednesday, August 25, 1999 5:03 PM Subject: [S-Scale] Downs MRR >From: PortLines@... > >Just received my advance copy of the September S-Gaugian. Top news >announcement: Russ Downs is retiring, terminating Ace / Downs Modell RR, and >putting the business(es) up for sale !!! A loss for S ! >Any S capitalists out there?????? >Doug > >--------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > >ONElist: home to the world's liveliest email communities. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4668	From: R. Alfred & Gwen Whiting	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Fusing transformers

The question here is the intent to protect the transformer or to protect the transformer AND the dwelling. If the former is the intent then the transformer can be fused on the low voltage side. If the latter is the intent then the transformer should be fused on the primary (120 volt) side. The fuse size can be calculated as follows: Fuse size = power / voltage For primary fusing Fuse size = watts / 120 For a 100 watt transformer the fuse size is 100/120 = 0.8333 ampere. There is unlikely to be fuse in this size. So use a 3/4 ampere fuse. You can use a slo-blo type fuse. For 90 watt transformers the 3/4 ampere fuse is exact. For 75 watt transformers a 5/8 ampere fuse is the thing to use. As they say, having said all that, the question arises as to whether the transformer is rated 100 watt output or input. Transformers are not 100 % efficient. If the transformers are rated by output, then a slightly larger fuse can be used than is obtained by the calculation above. Al

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4669	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: Downs MRR

Will Russ Downs continue to fill orders. I wanted to order a set of his tanker train? cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4670	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 349

>Message: 4 > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:40:56 -0700 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> >Subject: Re: Switchers? > >This is another case of where I think big L is sitting on a "no brainer"! >Wonder if the old Rex tooling is still around, didn't they have a >respectable steam switcher?? >BTW, I've got a lathe, but not the time/talent!! >S' >David D. > > Terry Putt, Putt Trains, has the Rex line and was working on producing the steamers. Anyone heard how he is progressing? Gregg Mummert gmummert@... S Gauge - the only way to Fly(er)!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4671	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: armatures

- Greeting`S' - Scott Holm has mentioned some interesting results obtained in his motor repairs. Here are a couple of comments about his observations. Armatures for motors designed to run in either direction do not bias the commutator position or angular position of the brushes. In the case of series motors used in electric automobiles (1' to 1'), brushes may be repositioned around the shaft by as much as 23 degrees to take care of armature reaction in the position of the effective magnetic field. A motor so modified will run very poorly in the opposite direction which is why the reverse gear is retained in the transmission. For reversible motors such as our AF locomotives use, the brushes should be at the neutral position. There may be a little more resistance in the armature for a DC (permag) motor than for the series motor, but only for current limit purposes. Since that would cause more heating, I think the armatures may be very nearly alike for AC and DC. The field and the armature have different inductances and resistances. This means that if the two are supplied with the same voltage, the cur- rents will be out of phase. Likely the armature current will lead the field current. If the armature and field are wired in parallel as Scott has tried, the peak of current and magnetic field in one part will lead that of the other part. Furthermore, there will be no back EMF to keep the field current under control. (The poor field is directly across the voltage source.) This indeed leads to sluggish running and over- heating of the field. AC shunt motors (field and armature connected in parallel) are not practical. DC shunt motors have field windings consisting of many turns of small diameter wire to keep the field re- sistance high and the field current low. The series motor has none of the difficulties mentioned above because the current that runs thru the field coil is the one and same current in the armature. Disassembling an Alnico field magnet structure will definitely weaken its magnetic strength, probably by more than 50%. Nothing bad happens to the material. It just has to be remagnetized with the motor assem- bled. Unless a keeper is arranged around the Alnico field structure a priori, it cannot be taken apart without making the air gap larger which weakens the field. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4672	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Stay away!

- Greeting`S' - It's me again. Just saw a note regarding gravel. It reminds me that the two materials I try to keep far from my track are fine grinding stone material and steel wool. Regarding the natural crushed stone for ballast, if it is washed and graded and washed to get rid of all small particles of dust size, and then glued down, it will be okay and look good. But I try to make finely crushed stone stay away from the bearings and gears of my S gauge equipment. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4673	From: Neil Trump	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: DC Alnico magnets

To all: Over the other side of the pond here I can get these magnets re-magnetised for less than $1 It appears that Hornby-Dublo magnets suffer in the same way and one of the repair people here offers what seems a cheap solution. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4674	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Digest Number 349

Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com >Also, on American Flyer Transformers with circuit breakers, the breaker is always in series on the bace post. So why, if you have a layout with several transformers wired in "phase" with a common wire bace post, does the breaker blow only on one transformer! if you have a derailment instead of all of them ( since the bace posts are wired together)?< It blows on the first circuit breaker or the one with the least resistance? charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4675	From: Scott Holm	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: Shorts using common base post

> >Also, on American Flyer Transformers with circuit breakers, the breaker is > always in series on the bace post. So why, if you have a layout with > several transformers wired in "phase" with a common wire bace post, does > the breaker blow only on one transformer! The breaker that blows is the one whose variable post is completing the circuit for that track. The base posts might be wired together, but current is only flowing through the one transformer. If all the transformers were supplying power to the same circuit, either by having their constant posts wired together or by having their variable posts wired together and their throttles all turned on, and a short happened on this shared circuit, all the transformers breakers should blow. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4676	From: Don Thompson	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: SHS scale wheels

Dear Guys, What a relief, I sent that right before our vacation and we thought about it a bit. Anyway, I am happy to hear that we do not have a problem, and I do get the joke. I love the new market in wheel swapping that has occurred between AF guys and code 110 guys. It does my heart good. Don T. Cbtrainnut@... wrote: > From: Cbtrainnut@... > > To: Cbtrainnut@... > > "Dear Tom?, > Why do you not like our scale wheels? And which do you like better? I am > leaving on a short vacation, but will return on Thursday. > Sign me curious, > Don Thompson " > I received this E-mail from Don > Thompson at S-Helper after I made a reply to W.; Thomas Boussum about a > comment someone made to him about selling off his flyer collection and > converting the rest to scale. I just want to clarify that I was Using > S-helpers scale wheelsets for the example in my Bad joke, it wasn't meant to > degrade the S_Helper trains. I love them and think they are great. Following > is my reply back to Don. > Hi Don, My comment > about throwing the scale wheelsets away was a poor attempt at humor.The > comment was in regards to Tom's posting where someone said to him"About 20 > years ago an S scale enthusiast advised me to sell off > most of my collection and work at "modifying" the remainder to scale > standards." My comment to Tom was"Tom, What kind of nut case would give this > advice to a Flyer person anyway....."If you reread my posting to Tom I had > listed how i had received all my flyer equipment , now I am buying your > s-helper tains which I run as hi-rail. I don't actually throw out the scale > wheelsets. I trade them with guys in the Miami Valley S-Gaugers who run scale > for their hi-rail wheelsets. > I apologize for the misunderstanding. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ATTN ONELIST USERS: stay current on the latest activities, > programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at > <a href=" http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/onelist_announce ">Click</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4677	From: Don Bitting	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Stamps

I just wanted to let the list know that the train stamps were released today at all the post offices nationwide. There are five different trains on a sheet of twenty for $6.60. They are really nice and would look good if put in a frame. This is a great list. Don Bitting Postal Service Window Clerk Highspire,Pa.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4678	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Re: Stamps

As a promotional package linked to this same release of commemorative stamps, there is an ad offer in the Oct.'99 issue of CTT which includes a sheet of stamps, a set of collector prints (artwork by Ted Rose), set of postcards and a set of First Day of Issue Covers (stamp collectors are into these...yeah, I plead guilty...I'm one of them, too) for $35. Jay Mellon New Orleans, LA > ---------- > From: Don652@...[SMTP:Don652@...] > Sent: Thursday, August 26, 1999 3:03 PM > To: S-trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Stamps > > From: Don652@... (Don Bitting) > > I just wanted to let the list know that the train stamps were released > today at all the post offices nationwide. There are five different > trains on a sheet of twenty for $6.60. They are really nice and would > look good if put in a frame. This is a great list. Don > Bitting Postal Service > Window Clerk Highspire,Pa. > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4679	From: William H Trefts	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: National Museum of Transport Web page

Greeting'S', Tonight was the annual meeting for members of the Transport Museum Association here in St. Louis, Missouri. We now have a web page showing off some highlights of our National Museum of Transport that everyone might enjoy viewing. It can be found at either of the following addresses: www.museumoftransport.org or www.thetrainmuseum.org It is still being constructed, but what they currently have is exciting!! We hope that everyone can take a trip to St. Louis and enjoy it in person!! 'S'ee ya', Bill Treft'S' P'S': I'm also sending this separately to Paul Yorke so he might add it to his links page. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4680	From: The Reis's	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: flyonel ??

This is an interesting Item off the toytrains (TCA) list. In case you were wondering why the Flyer accessories were getting so scarce. ------------------------------------------------------------------ <<<<<In a message dated 8/26/99 5:51:48 AM, ___________ writes: << American Flyer made a neat accessory (at least my kids think so) called Cow on Track, I'm sure many of you are familiar with it. Well I'm wondering if one can make it work with Lionel O gauge track. I have a very limited amount of information about this toy, but it seems to me that it wouldn't be a problem. However, I know I saw it at a show a year ago and somehow got the impression that it wouldn't work because there was some Flyer track attached to it. What's on eBay doesn't have any track though. Any input? While I'm at it, Flyer made some neat log loaders too. Any reason why these wouldn't work with O gauge/scale?>> They do. Guy who used to go to the Burbank, CA TTOS Pickwick Rec Meets in the late 80's would sell stuff he called "Flyonel", Flyer items like the Smitty Brakeman car kitbashed onto Lionel equipment. Wonder where he went? Later, _____________>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The "L" guys are after them too.. Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4681	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 8/26/1999
Subject: Fw: Food For Thought...

----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, August 26, 1999 11:03 PM Subject: Food For Thought... > >>The Fence > >>> > >>>There once was a little boy who had a bad temper. His father gave > him > a > >>bag of nails and told him that every time he lost his temper he must > hammer > >>a nail into the back of the fence. The first day the boy had driven 37 > nails > >>>into the fence. Over the next few weeks, as he learned to control > his > >>>anger, the number of nails hammered daily gradually dwindled down. > He > >>>discovered it was easier to hold his temper than to drive those nails > into > >>>the fence. > >> > >>Finally the day came when the boy didn't lose his temper at all. =09 > He told his father about it and the father suggested that the boy now > >>pull out one nail for each day that he was able to hold his temper. > The > days > >>>passed and the young boy was finally able to tell his father that all > the > >>>nails were gone. The father took his son by the hand and led him to > the > >>>fence. He said, " You have done well, my son, but look at the holes > in > the > >>>fence. The fence will never be the same When you say things in > anger, > >>>they leave a scar just like this one. You can put a knife in a man > and > >>draw it out. It won't matter how many times you say I'm sorry, the > wound > >>is still there. A verbal wound is as bad as a physical one." > >> > >>Friends are a very rare jewel, indeed. They make you smile and > encourage > >>you to succeed. > >>>They lend an ear, they share a word of praise, and they always want > to > open > >>>their hearts to us. It's National Friendship Week. Show your friends > how > >>>much you care. Send this to everyone you consider a FRIEND even if > it > >>means sending back to the person who sent it to you. If it comes back > to > >>you, then you'll know you have a circle of friends. > > > >>> HAPPY FRIENDSHIP WEEK!!!!!!!!! >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4682	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: AF 651 Observation Car

Hi, I have a problem with this car...I can not get it to light up....I cleaned the wheels...changed the bulb....cleaned light bulb base...sanded bulb holder to frame....checked wires to truck..and to bulb....it still does not work...any ideas...thanks, Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4683	From: Nerker, Robert	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: problem light AF651 car

I find the way to attack the no light problem is process of elimination: 1) check to see that you are indeed getting voltage to the 2 wires to the bulb. Put a voltmeter across the 2 wires and see that you get 9-12 volts when you put power to the track. OR use a wired bulb and see if it lights up. 2) If you pass this step you know its got to be solder job to the base OR 3) do a check on the bulb. Make sure it lights up in another socket OR 4) 99% of the time the bulb is not making contact correctly in the base take a piece of tape and put it on the bulb to really screw it in tight! hope this helps

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4684	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: Soldering tips

Hi all! Here's a site with some tips on soldering and un-soldering. Some of this may be useful to S gaugers. http://www.morsex.com/building/atoz.htm#Soldering Regards and have a great weekend! -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4685	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: flyonel ??

In a message dated 8/26/99 11:51:36 PM, finnhill@... writes: << In case you were wondering why the Flyer accessories were getting so scarce. >> No surprise at all. This has been going on for a long time. Ever wonder why most Gilbert accessories are over-sized for S? If you may remember, Gilbert designed their accessories so that they were useable with O gauge trains so as to broaden the market for them. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4686	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: AF 651 Observation Car

Thought I might add what seems obvious, but MAYBE overlooked: are the metal wheels on one truck opposite the metal wheels on the other truck? Gotta connect to both rails to make it work! S David D

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4687	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: diesel switchers

Anyone have any experience with AC powered SW9 or S12??? pro? con? neutral? Dont bother? Junk? Better than PB&J sandwiches? Hmmmmm? L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4688	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: diesel switchers

I have the SHS SW9 switcher running on AC and I'm pleased with it. Very smooth running mechanism and well detailed. As you should know, you can run it AC sequence reverse, DC sequence reverse or DC polarity reverse. The only problem I've had was that the pickup wires weren't contacting the wheels well enough and it would stall. Fixed it the other day by reforming the wires and so far it's OK. This bothers me 'cause I don't run it that much and it was fine originally. Has anyone else had a pickup problem? BTW, I got mine at York last October from a dealer who was ready to pack up at a good discount. LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Anyone have any experience with AC powered SW9 or S12??? > pro? con? neutral? Dont bother? Junk? Better than PB&J sandwiches? > Hmmmmm? > L. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ATTN ONELIST USERS: stay current on the latest activities, > programs, & features at ONElist by joining our member newsletter at > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/newsletter4 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4689	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: diesel switchers

In a message dated 8/27/99 11:42:30 AM, LARSPAINTR@... writes: << Anyone have any experience with AC powered SW9 or S12??? >> Have an AC hi-rail SHS SW9 which has been superb. Also have an AC AM S12 which has also been excellent, though it is noticeably less detailed than the SHS piece. I can recommend both, but the SW9 is the better buy for about the same $$. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4690	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: 651 observation car

Jeff, we are assuming you mean the 654 Observation. The 651 was an unlighted New haven baggage. If your using a newer replacement bulb, its most likley not reaching the contact at the base of the socket. Take a solder gun, and get a small bead of solder hot on it, and touch the bottom of the bulb to it briefly to extend the base point on the bulb. Many of the overseas repros are short in this area. The idea is to lengthen the tip there so it will reach the bottom contact. Then give it a try it should work OK.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4691	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: food for thought

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? The police came and arrested our doorman two nights ago for being too friendly. To an underage girl. Yesterday the girl's father came around, looking to kill him. And a guy who makes Hitler look like Caspar Milquetoast is trying to organize a violent hate march here on Sept.4. New York City is definitely not ready for friendship week. Maybe next year. Fortunately we have a hobby that offers some peace and serenity and yes, some friendship. But as has often been stated on this list, we're a minority. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4692	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: 651

Sometimes oxidation blocks current flow between the truck frame and the rivet. Test by touching a wire to the rivet end instead of the truck. If the car lights, clean the area around the rivet end with a wire brush and apply a drop of solder to jump the corrosion. If the car floor is plastic, work extremely quickly because this plastic can't take soldering heat -- it will melt. That is why the heavyweights have that cockamamie pickup arm touching the rivet. No soldering was necessary. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4693	From: Jerry	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Thanks

Just wanted to pass along my thanks to all who responded to my AF brush questions. Lots of good info. I placed an order with PortLine Hobbies and am awaiting shipment. Jerry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4694	From: Duff&Pam Trautman	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Re: Welcome to S-Trains@onelist.com

-----Original Message----- From: S-Trains-owner@onelist.com <S-Trains-owner@onelist.com> To: duffpam@... <duffpam@...> Date: Monday, May 24, 1999 12:00 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Welcome to S-Trains@onelist.com >Hello, > >Welcome to the S-Trains list. Please take a moment to review this message. >This list is intended for folks who share an interest in S-Scale (1/64th) and >S-Gauge model railroading. > >To unsubscribe from this list, go to the ONElist web site, at >www.onelist.com, and select the User Center link from the menu bar >on the left. This menu will also let you change your subscription >between digest and normal mode. If you are a non-web e-mail >user, (ie Juno) just send me a note and I will take care of you. > >Some Guidelines: >Always visit the FAQ page (http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm) >to see if your question may have been already answered. > >There are now over 350 members on this list. Please try to limit your >messages to a maximum of one per day. > >When responding to S-Trains, please do not use the 'Reply' button >because it often includes the entire original e-mail text. Instead >create a 'new' message and address it to s-trains@onelist.com. > >Write directly to the person when you want to have an in-depth >discussion. > >If you don't like the language or attitude of a list member, send them a >note (or me). It may just be a 'slip' or a misunderstanding. > >Maybe the 'S-Trains Message Board' is a better place for some of these >'detailed' and 'interactive' discussions. >http://www.InsideTheWeb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb19857 > >'Buying and Selling' on the list is acceptable as long as the notes are >kept short and infrequent. I would prefer a link to a web page rather >than a price list in the e-mail. > >Thanks, >Paul Yorke (yorke@...) >http://www.gate.net/~yorke >Please delete me from your e-mail subscription list for the above subject matter. Don't have time to read it. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4695	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: Interesting things....

I don't know how to do a "Digest" on here, so I'll just share this with the list members hopefully some will find it interesting reading. I've done a lot of repairs in my days, and for the most part American Flyers are pretty much standard. What I mean is that you can take apart 75 K5's, or 60 Hudsons, and the parts are pretty much the same. There are some expected differences, especially between 3 digit and 5 digit numbers, but basically the parts are the same. Every once in a while I take apart a loco, and see interesting things I had not seen before. I recently picked up a 326 Hudson on the auction, cheap. Its only VG but the price was very right. I recievd the loco today, and as expected, the shells were fairly well scratched but touch-upable. Otherwise the loco was complete and original except for the tender shell screws. I hope to bring it up to VG+ and use it as a clean runner. Of course my first step is to strip the loco down so I can clean it up. I would like to determine when Gilbert started using the fixed plastic coated wiring harness set up for the Hudson. As far as I can tell they only did this on the 326 in the 3 digit Hudsons, and the 313 in the K5 line while Atlantics and C&NW type Pacifics seemed to have them almost all the time after Pul-Mor was introduced. This loco is wired that way. I was hoping when I won the bid that it had the super motor in it, and it does. So far no real suprises. The loco is dated July 1956. The interesting things I see are 1.) The boiler front is held on with the clip attached to the boiler front. Its the short curved clips that are interesting. They have been punched so that there is a small little tounge that sticks out to really grab into the sides of the boiler to hold it in, and worked quite well too. 2.) The smoker had the wire lugs in line with the smoke hole ( O < > ), and it was mounted with one screw. The other screw hole in the chassis was not drilled out, and the other hole in the smoker casting was not tapped. I had seen these smokers before, but they were in later 21085 Pacifics. I did not expect to see them in this early of a loco. 3.) The horn speaker in the tender was not the typical cardboard paper type steam tender speaker mounted with a threaded stud down thru the floor. This loco has the small ceramic/waxy type speaker as usually found in the GP7 Diesels. It has the mounting loop around it with a tab at the end with a screw hole in it, and a tounge on the tip that slips into a small slot punched into the tender chassis to keep it from swiveling. At first I thought someone swapped it out, but after looking it was obvious that the solder connections were indeed factory, and the slot was factory for the tounge tab as well. As you can see, there are some very interesting things about this loco. Tommorrow I will start the cleaning and touchup process. Hopefully she will be cruising soon. Just thought I would share these interesting things with the group to see if anyone else has experienced strange and different things with a loco the serviced.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4696	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/27/1999
Subject: AF 18 B TRANSFORMER

HI, I JUST PICKED UP AN AF 18B TRANSFORMER....THE DEAD MAN HANDLE ON BOTH SIDES HAVE NO EFFECT AT ALL...WHEN FULLY EXTENDED THE TRAINS STILL RUN THE TRACK.....WHAT WOULD BE THE CURE FOR THIS..THANKS JEFF

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4697	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Re: AF 18 B TRANSFORMER

Jeff, by fully extended I am assuming you are talking swung all the way to the off position which is outboard for these units. These transformers had ":Dead Mans' handles. You need to lift the handle up, it comes up out of the clip. This raises the roller inside the case up off the core. If lifting the handle is what you meant by extended, then you need to take the cover off and check to see that the wipers are not out of shape, and see that the up and down motion of the handles is doing what its supposed to do. If the wipers are bent down too far they will not travel enough to loose contact with the core. I have seen a situation where the push pins have gotten stickey. You may have to take the handle assembly apart and clean all parts thoroughly to make sure the pin in the handle is moving up and down freely so that when you do raise the handle its moving up and allowing the wiper to come up off the core. Good luck.....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4698	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Diesel switchers

My AC powered SW-9 is the best performing S gauge engine I own. My only quibble is that it is hard to couple AF cars to it while switching on curved track. I solve this by inserting a "buffer car" with talgo trucks between the engine and the cars I am switching. With this set up and a MRC transformer I can switch yards easily, at realistically slow speeds. If it only had sound!!! (I'm working on it) Tom Gerbasi > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:41:58 EDT > From: LARSPAINTR@... > Subject: diesel switchers > > Anyone have any experience with AC powered SW9 or S12??? > pro? con? neutral? Dont bother? Junk? Better than PB&J sandwiches? > Hmmmmm? > L. > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4699	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Photos of the Bristol CLub layout at the New Haven, CT show

On Sunday August 22, 1999 the Bristol Club participated in the New Haven, CT Train Show. Here are a few pictures of the Bristol Club layout that I took at the show. Enjoy! Michael Greene PS The digital pictures have been downsampled from 1600x1200 to 640x480 and stored as highly compressed JPEG files in order to reduce the time for downloading. If anyone needs a higher resolution image for another purpose, please let me know. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Simply click on the link below to go directly to Bristol New Haven 99 photo album, where you can see all the photos. Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=75603&a=551447 AOL Users: <a href="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=75603&a=551447">Click Here</a> Click on the link above to see the photos. If neither of the links are clickable, simply cut and paste the first link into your web browser.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4700	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Re: No lights?

In a message dated 8/28/99 6:58:56 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << I have a problem with this car...I can not get it to light up....I cleaned the wheels...changed the bulb....cleaned light bulb base...sanded bulb holder to frame....checked wires to truck..and to bulb....it still does not work...any ideas. >> Quite often....esp with the foreign bulbs being sold today.... even when screwed in tightly, the bottom contact on the bulb is not making contact with the bottom of the socket. Add a small drop of solder to the bottom of the bulb. Then try it....betcha it lights! While discussing bulbs....a caution: Insist on USA bulbs when buying #1449 engine bulbs for steam engines. Foreign bulbs have an extra thread, making them taller. When you try to insert them into a steam engine boiler, they won't fit!!!! US bulbs WILL fit. In diesels, it doesn't really matter, EXCEPT that the extra height puts them that much closer to the plastic. For all other bulbs, US vs foreign doesn't make much difference. The downside of this 1449 problem is that no US manufacturer makes 1449 bulbs anymore.....so when existing stock is gone.........?????????? Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4701	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Re: Diesel switchers

Please let us SW-9 owners know what you do with respect to sound. Thanks, --jon > -----Original Message----- > From: kathy/tom Gerbasi [SMTP:kgerbasi@...] > Sent: Saturday, August 28, 1999 5:52 AM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Diesel switchers > > From: "kathy/tom Gerbasi" <kgerbasi@...> > > My AC powered SW-9 is the best performing S gauge engine I own. My only > quibble is that it is hard to couple AF cars to it while switching on > curved > track. I solve this by inserting a "buffer car" with talgo trucks between > the engine and the cars I am switching. With this set up and a MRC > transformer I can switch yards easily, at realistically slow speeds. If it > only had sound!!! (I'm working on it) > Tom Gerbasi > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > __ > ___ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:41:58 EDT > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Subject: diesel switchers > > > > Anyone have any experience with AC powered SW9 or S12??? > > pro? con? neutral? Dont bother? Junk? Better than PB&J sandwiches? > > Hmmmmm? > > L. > > > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Transfer your big list to ONElist and earn $500! > For program details, go to > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/biglist1 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4702	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: switcher responses THANX and

Half dozen or so fine answers on my Q regarding the two diesel switchers avail. Good enuf to post to all.... I will do so in couplea days except for folks that dont want their name attached let me know? Some already have had a copy sent to the list, maybe others not but I would like to include it all in one handy list. This anonymous (SP) character of the web is sort of greek to me but still want to keep all the folks happy that responded. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4703	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Re: Rex Docksider

Bill, I originaly built my Rex Docksider in January of 1988 with a set of scale wheels. I wound up going the hi-rail route and later replaced the scale wheels with hi-rail ones. I have not experienced any operational problems with the hi-rail wheels. I have my loco here right in front of me and looking at the side rods there is not any room to spare. A possible solution may be to carefully and gently bend the crosshead guides out a wee bit where they fit into the cylinders. The Docksider is a nifty little loco and I understand that Putt-Putt Trains now owns the dies and are considering remanufacturing the 2-6-0 Mogul, 0-6-0 Switcher and the Dockside. I would like to see them go to a can motor and offer a refit kit for the older locos. Good luck and let us know how you solve the problem. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4704	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Observation car light problem

Thanks, For all your help with my lighting problem....it appears that the car frame cut into the insulation...those causing a short....changed wire and back in business -

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4705	From: Michael Greene	Date: 8/28/1999
Subject: Paper Buildings

I ran across a couple of notes on rec.models.railroad that have paper buildings that might be of interest: For a nice graphic (about HO scale) of Ben and Jerry's original store, >> >go the following address: >> > >> >http://euphoria.benjerry.com/fun/index.html >> > >> >Cut out and enjoy! and another >More cardstock buildings in HO & N, as well as other sizes (INCLUDING S), are >available at: > >http://keypage.com/looks-like/ > > >I think they have some free downloads... Just FYI - Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4706	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 8/29/1999
Subject: Trip

I'm going to be taking a trip from Rochester, New York across the north to Seattle and returning via a southern route through Albuquerque and San Antonio. If anyone is aware of Flyer train stores or other S-Gauge points of interest along that route, I'd appreciate suggestions. Also, does anyone know if the DuPage County Train Show is Sunday, September 5th, or the following Sunday? Thanks for your help, Roger Delthony

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4707	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/29/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Leaving on a trip from Dayton Oh to Myrtle Beach. Anyone have any suggestions for s-train shops or displays on the way? I sure Hope hurricane Dennis leaves soon! Thanks chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4708	From: John Foley	Date: 8/29/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Message: 3 Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 09:13:14 -0400 From: Michael Greene <mgreene@...> Subject: Photos of the Bristol CLub layout at the New Haven, CT show On Sunday August 22, 1999 the Bristol Club participated in the New Haven, CT Train Show. Here are a few pictures of the Bristol Club layout that I took at the show. Enjoy! Michael Greene Michael Great photos, Thanks for posting. I enjoyed them very much. Your Friend John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4709	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/29/1999
Subject: smoke in plastic 442???

I mean smoke and choo choo. Have two atlantics, one a 302 and one 307 The motor in the metal one does not work, motor cogs just a bit, locks in position, then only hums. Its reverse unit is in sad shape too. The plastic one has fine mechanics. It appears the chassis is same for both, so evidently I can put the smoke unit in the plastic bodied loco, only wonder if there is a heat problem due to the smoke unit? Have not tested the smoke unit tho, looks like I can just add 15vac directly to the smoke unit- currently assuming it works! optimist? Anyway- Any comments appreciated! L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4710	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/29/1999
Subject: Re: smoke in plastic 442???

Lars, Well, repairing your 302 would probably be faster than putting the smoke unit in your 307!! The chassis are identical (Well, if they're from the same manufacturing period) and the only major difference is the 302 has white paint on the inside of it's smokestack! BUT the drive gear for the smoke unit is held in place with a shouldered rivet, that is itself pressed into the chassis. To change the unit over, you will have to support the gear and chassis, and press it out, then support the new chassis and press it in (after taking the headlight wire out of the hole, typically where ACG ran them!) Now, while this is a fairly straight-forward project, the other thing to remember is the chassis are older now, and have become more brittle, and Mr. Murphy is always around to mess things! The smoke unit could be the problem with your 302! Remove the hex shouldered bolt that holds the piston arm to the gear and see if the piston moves freely in and out of the smoke unit. If it doesn't -- AH HA!! Note: if you repair the 302, you will then have TWO operating locomotives, not just one! S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4711	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Promoting 'S'

Promoting 'S'. My advise is to create a Web page. It is free and easy to do. If you need help with photos or diagrams let me know. On your web page you can tell how you got started in S. You can display your layout or collection. You can show your favorite projects and repair tips. Also include a page with links to your favorite 'S' sites. Let me know if you already have a site that I don't already link to. http://www.homestead.com is one of the best free sites I know of. They walk you through the whole process. see an example at http://www.homestead.com/alaska_99. I create all (except the title page) my pages on my pc and uploaded them to the "files' directory. I use netscape Composer. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4712	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Alco chassis

Anyone have one or two Alco-PA-1 chassis they're willing to part with for a reasonable price. I'd prefer the "dummy" chassis WITH trucks if possible, but if the price is right a non working junker chassis or two would be fine too. Also maybe someone has a 370 GP-9 chassis as well? I have some old Flyer shells that I'd like to use as dummies, but can't afford to spend much on this project. Maybe someone has a better or more reasonable solution to utilizing these shells. I welcome all ideas. Regard'S' Al Babbitt-Rocky Mtn. Hi-Railers-NASG Northwestern Flyer Trains-Boise, ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4713	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Canadian catalogues

The Nelson checklist shows three Canadian catalgues issued by Flyer: D1801 -- 1955 Canadian Consumer (no prices) D1899 -- 1956 Canadian Consumer (no prices) D2070 -- 1958 Canada Catalog Will someone who has these please tell me what Canadian addresses, if any, they contain? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4714	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: Atlantic fix

Clarification on the Atlantic with bad motor- applying 15 vac to the brush leads only makes motor hum silently. Smoke unit wiring still connected. Moving the armature with plastic pick only allows it to slightly rotate then electrically snaplock in positon. The smoke unit piston is not connected tho it is free, and I have removed the siderods so only the driver wheels will turn. The armature tho moves back and forth on its axis the distance of almost 3 laminations of the (field?) whereas my running atlantic it has almost no such clearnace. I have not disassembled the motor but think I need a new armature? thanx for the suggestions several sent. and I will post the diesel switcher info summary about midweek. L. (The 'I dont wanna be a watchmaker' guy....)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4715	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S scale convention 2000

Well, not to muddle in, but it seems to me that spreading the S convention accross the whole week + one will limit the audience that can afford this convention!! Some of just can't afford a whole week of motel-ing and not working, whereas a long weekend is much more do-able. That being the case, I may have to wait until the schedule is released to determine which days have the most to offer within a three or so day period. And I live sorta nearby !!! (four to five hour drive, depending on traffic) S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4716	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: Atlantic fix

Lars, Applying power to only the brush ends will not make and AF motor run, unless the reverse uint just happens to be in the right postition to complete the connections to the field! Although I'm not "on site" it sounds like maybe your armature is OK, but needs a spacer washer or two to limit the for & aft movement. It does require some, as the armature lengthens when it warms up! Your main problem is probably in the reverse unit. You may as well get used to fixing them, as you'll need to do it at some time, if you run your engines much! The smoke unit should work, if it's not burnt out. Repairing these does require a magnifier, and a steady hand, w/ a little bit of practice, but it's still not watchmaker's work!<G> If you have an ohmmeter, unscrew the headlight bulb, lift off the brush cap--oops!! catch the sping that just flew accross the room!--that has a wire going to the smoke unit. this should electrically isolate the smoke unit. Now read ohms accross the smoke unit connections, should be 35 to 45 ohms, if it's 0, then you need to replace the element. Let us know how it's going! S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4717	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: transformers - - primary to secondary leaks

How do you check for this? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4718	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Transformers, and continuity

I've found the wattage makes a difference especially in operating accessories. I bench test and optimize with 1 1/2 B (50W), then actually run with a 12B (250W). Things like the Lionel 182 crane, AF779, and AF785 show their "weaknesses" most with the light duty transformers, I tune/adjust to get better/stronger/smoother operation, and then they really perform with the 12B's power (set to same voltage) behind them. I only have a 5'X7' layout (when it's done - presently it's leveled, I';ve got lots of wiring and accessories to add - I hope to post pictures, calling it a "Little Piece of Hi-Rail Heaven on a Five-By-Seven"). I recently rearranged the tracks, and in the process removed and cleaned (wire brushed) all connencting pins, and I replaced all greater than 10" straights with K-Line long straight sections. It could be my imagination, but I believe performance is up and all engines are running better. I have a bunch of blocks (709's and cold-kill) so there are quite a few connection clips to feed the juice too. If you're intereseted, I have a tip on wire-brushing multiple pins at a time that helped save me some time.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4719	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: primary to secondary leaks

Unplug transf. Connect one end of continuity tester to both prongs of wall plug. touch other to all terminal posts with transformer in full speed position. Any continuity then transf is n.g. Also test for leaks to bottom plate and all metal external parts. Connect one end of c. t. to both prongs of plug. touch other end to all metal external transf. parts. Any continuity -- find & fix leak or don't use transf. To be sure, if transf has on/off switch, run these tests with switch in both positions. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4720	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: NASG 2000 CONVENTION

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:40:37 -0700 From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> Subject: NASG Convention 2000 S Folks.... As you all probably know the NASG Convention in 2000 is a joint convention with the NMRA shindig. Thus, it runs a full eight (count 'em) days long. The S scale activities are truly integrated with the NMRA activities both in terms of scheduling and use of facilities. Thus, S scale activities and events will be distributed over the entire eight-day period. Unlike past NASG conventions, this S scale convention WILL NOT be concentrated in the Thurs., Fri., Sat. time period. My reason for emphasizing this now, is that some fellows have already indicated to me an intention of arriving on Thursday (or late Weds. night) and expecting to see all of the S scale activities in just three days. Fellas.....it ain't gonna work that way this year. For example, at a typical past NASG convention, contest models could be entered on Thursday, viewed on Friday, judged on Saturday, and taken home shortly thereafter. At this convention, the judging will probably be done on Thursday (after three or four days of viewing) and the models taken home shortly thereafter. Please note the above contest schedule is very tentative at this time, but the warning is right on the money. The warning being: arrive early or you will be surprised -- or -- check detailed schedules of all events you are interested in to be sure of avoiding disappointment -- or -- just plan on spending all eight days out here. The San Francisco bay area is a great place in any event -- train convention or not. At this time, detailed schedules of all events are not yet finalized and so I cannot provide any additional information. Regarding hotels, the NASG has "blocked" a bunch of rooms at the Hyatt on North First Street in San Jose thinking that S scalers would like to flock together. This hotel is a pleasant two-block walk to the primary convention hotel. However, unreserved S scale rooms must be released to the general conventioneers on November 22, 1999. Thus, if you make a hotel reservation promptly, you might want to request one of the "NASG rooms" at the Hyatt. It is my understanding that all rooms at the primary hotel, The Doubletree, are already reserved. That news is a verbal rumor that came my way, but I sort of believe it. I am not surprised. Given that the schedule is not precisely determined yet and that the official S scale hotel rooms will be released in a month or so and that August 2000 is one helluva way off, what is the average Joe S scaler potential convention attendee supposed to do? Good question! I'd suggest the following if possible: (1) Make your firm vacation plans within 60 days and book hotels accordingly. (2) If the above is not possible, some fellas book hotels and then try to "adjust" the date of arrival at the last minute. While I'm not suggesting everyone do this, it has been known to happen. Book for all eight days and then cancel the first two days once your schedule is determined for sure. BUT, don't plan on getting the cancelled days back if you change your mind again. Those rooms will probably be sold to someone else. (3) Stay at a non-convention hotel and mingle with the general public instead of S scalers. This alternative is probably better than missing the convention altogether. But having breakfast next to Mrs. Murphy and her three small kids might not enhance your appetite. Better to eat with a slobbering Pennsy freak and really enjoy your meals. I would appreciate it if everyone reading this message could help spread the word to their local club members and others with whom they communicate. The printed magazine route has a very long lead time. Thanks for your help. "S"incerely, Ed L. _______________________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4721	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: stamps and trains

Got to the Nesquehoning (sp?) Penna post office pronto the morning of the 26th before all those lucious streamliner stamps were gone. They looked at me as though I was nuts. My dad and I were the only ones in there. "We've had them since the 15th." Oh well, they're cool stamps. Visited the Ashland, PA coal mine and steam train. A bitty little tank engine (like Ben or Bill from Thomas), but a steamer just the same - - love that whistle, hiss, etc, and they're very cordial about showing you the cab, firebox ablaze, etc. Great playground/park too if you have to convince other family members why the visit is a win-win for everyone.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4722	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: [Proto64] Re: [S-Scale] S scale convention 2000

I have the molds that are left of the S Scale Miller alco S4 yard switcher. I talked to the owner and he said " make a boat anchor" out of them. If any one wants them they are yours for the cost of shipping. I will put them in the trash next sunday Sept 4, 1999. So let me hear from you. Larry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4723	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: El loco loco or one baaaaad 442

Ah me, could there BE such a contrivance? Hitler in his worst days could not come up with a subtly messed up unit? After 8 months, heres what I find on this atlantic- E unit with one top finger almost worn thru, one of the lower ones severely worn and bent back behind the drum instead of on top. Close to 3/32 slop in armature apparently due to no front (lower) bushing No screw to smoke piston, which is at least free Only 5 ohms testing resistance of smoke wire with brushes and bulb not connected Loco/tender connector: one wire not soldered at tender juncture one wire (apparently) never soldered at backside of loco connector. and no instructions nowhere as to how to really test the motor and smoke unit with the tender disconnected. The fine colored wiring diagrams (on S site or where did I get em from?) simply avoid that concept.... i.e. there is/are no one-lines that include the tender sequencer.... BUT Thanks to Joe of Joes Train Shop last March or so he e mailed me info on applying the track voltage to the extreme two loco pins and jumpering the two inside ones. I used it now 5 months later- It does run but no apparent smoke. Brushes spark due to lack of end bushing hence armature moves around based on speed and load. Progress! but slow. L. the 'Idontwannabeawatchmaker' guy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4724	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: 2 items

1. October Model Railroader, page 37--looks like a good way to use up to 11 surplus AF gon bodies!! 2. What is the scoop on S scale basswood car kits from Funero and Cumerlingo or whomever that is??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4725	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Dead CJ 21168 for parts

Greetings all, Anyone have any dead 21168 Cj locos that I could scrounge the side gear and associated parts for other Cjs just to get rid of those awful single arm side gear on the Burlingtons and Eires. Gee while I'm at it I ought to replace those crummy PM plastic trucks on the tender or... Did anyone make a prototypical shell to use on a CJ chassis? The CJs may not resemble anything but you can't kill them, lord know I tried when I was young and foolish:) Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4726	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Prototypes for AM cars (or lack thereof)

I find this discussion on boxcar height rather interesting, as here am I, an avowed Flyer type and one thing I LIKE about my Marx cattle car conversions IS the different height they are as, to me at least, I think it looks more realistic! And here's this discussion on the "scale" side...... S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4727	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] S Guide

OK, another thought or two on this. 1) Why the still insistence on some that NO connection be made between Toys and Scale stuff?? I read this as a negative force, I don't know if it's a "class" thing or if it's generated by some past experience. But enough of that, this isn't Freud.com. 2) Interesting idea, two guides in one, back to back. 3) Why not a "Grabber" Title for an all-in -one guide; "S Gauge-- it's not just toy trains anymore!" Then you follow up with a guide with lots of photos, as I described before. Remember, the guide is just a teaser, you can't show or tell everything, but highlight the interesting stuff, and hook the reader into looking for more info at a handy nearby phonebooth--er, website (sorry, was thinking of S MAN) or an address for more info (NASG??). S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4728	From: David Dewey	Date: 8/30/1999
Subject: Re: Dead CJ 21168 for parts

Jeff, I believe you're looking for the hardest CJ loco to find! As to bodies, I saw one repainted a la Southern, with green cab, red roof, and (I think) real windows. I didn't even recognize it at first!! Looked pretty good! --Uh, don't tell anyone on the S-scale list, though, I'm sure there aren't enough of the right rivets, or much else for it to be a correct form of *any* real loco. Wonder if any Atlantic crossheads and side rods would adapt easily?? S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4729	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Re: Miller Switcher

Dear Larry, If you would REALLY like to see this model on the market again, we are interested. Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. Message: 12 > Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:13:49 -0700 > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > Subject: Re: [Proto64] Re: [S-Scale] S scale convention 2000 > > I have the molds that are left of the S Scale Miller alco S4 yard switcher. I > talked to the owner and he said " make a boat anchor" out of them. If any one > wants them they are yours for the cost of shipping. I will put them in the trash > next sunday Sept 4, 1999. So let me hear from you. > Larry

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4730	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Prototypes for AM cars (or lack thereof)

Thank you Ed for complimenting some fine if not perfect, by some scale (still a hobby) standards, products. Staying on NASG track, Glenn (almost scale) From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> Earl Tuson wrote: > Jeff English commented on the accuracy of American Models > freight cars. > The general response seemed to be that AM should be applauded, > and not put down. > I did a little looking > I'm being fairly picky Not being a rivet counter, I cannot question the superior knowledge of those who critique models and compare them to the prototype. However, I do have a knowledge of Ron Bashista, AM's owner, since he used to live here in San Jose and run trains on my layout. That was back in the days when he was a stockbroker. He sold his house and moved to Michigan and bought a "cheap" (by California standards, at least) house and used the leftover money to acquire some tooling. At that time, if memory serves me correct, the automotive industry was in a deep recession and the various toolmakers were offering bargain deals on prices just to avoid laying off their skilled workers. Ron took full advantage of the situation and also worked a deal whereby he took on the role of "gopher" and did all the little errands and played assistant to one toolmaker. He watched and he learned and he got his hands real dirty. Then he worked a deal whereby he got to use the machinery himself and paid for machine time only. Didn't need the skilled toolmaker for much except occasional consulting, etc. From that beginning grew American Models as we know it today. The reason for relating this true story is that Ron Bashista, whether his products are good or bad (makes no difference), has done a helluva lot more for this scale that just about any of us. He left an established career, risked his house equity, worked long hours, and went without -- just to make a 40 foot boxcar. It was the ONLY steel boxcar in S scale at the time and we all went berserk over it. It had more detail and more parts and a better roof than S scale had ever seen before. It was the talk of the town for a couple of years at least. At that time even the HOers were envious. Yep, the boxcar is too small in the vertical dimension. One rumor says he did it so it would match in height with the AF boxcar. Same story for the too-small Amtrak superliner cars. Yep, he was after the AF guys all right. Only did scale stuff as sort of a favor and a few extra bucks. AF guys paid for the tooling that produced the scale products, good or bad, came out of the shop. I find Ron to be an interesting person and, like all of us, with his good points and his not-so-good points. Whether or not you like his business practices, his products, or his philosophy, he has done a great deal for this hobby. I personally think that it is entirely possible to be a good person and produce a toy-like product. Doesn't bother me in the least. A.C.Gilbert did it. Athearn does it still. It ought to be possible to speak objectively about the product as a separate issue from running the guy into the ground. Please throw the first stone if you are the perfect one. Throw it my way. I need a good hit in the head once in awhile. "S"incerely, Ed L. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4731	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Canadian Flyer catalogues

For some reason I usually have better luck with my S-Trains queries the second time around. So here goes again. Please, will someone who has Flyer catalogues D1801 -- 1955 Canadian Consumer (no prices) D1899 -- 1956 Canadian Consumer (no prices) D2070 -- 1958 Canada Catalog tell me what Canadian addresses, if any,they contain? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4732	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: I like my diesel switcher responses

Here are replies to my original post listed first: They have been edited only to remove duplicates of my original post and some superflous internet garble. > > Anyone have any experience with AC powered SW9 or S12??? > pro? con? neutral? Dont bother? Junk? Better than PB&J sandwiches? > Hmmmmm? > L. Date: 99/08/27 2:42:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: RBubeck327 To: LARSPAINTR, S-Trains@onelist.com Have an AC hi-rail SHS SW9 which has been superb. Also have an AC AM S12 which has also been excellent, though it is noticeably less detailed than the SHS SW9 piece. I can recommend both, but the SW9 is the better buy for about the same $$. RB Date: 99/08/27 1:22:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: cesmith@... (Charles E. Smith) I have the SHS SW9 switcher running on AC and I'm pleased with it. Very smooth running mechanism and well detailed. As you should know, you can run it AC sequence reverse, DC sequence reverse or DC polarity reverse. The only problem I've had was that the pickup wires weren't contacting the wheels well enough and it would stall. Fixed it the other day by reforming the wires and so far it's OK. This bothers me 'cause I don't run it that much and it was fine originally. Has anyone else had a pickup problem? BTW, I got mine at York last October from a dealer who was ready to pack up at a good discount. Date: 99/08/27 3:10:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: TPDavis7 Keep the 3' length of broom handle nearby, when the reverse unit sticks, WACK the tender. Don,t know what the problem with Dallee's webb site is but they advertise in most of the model RR magazines. In the June Model Railroader, page 30, they advertise there catalog; electronics for all scales & gauges, digitized sound systems, detection, throttles, etc. .......$6.00. The mailing addres is Dallee Electronics, Inc., Dept.MR 246 W. Main St., Leola, Pa 17540. [Dallees' responded, $45 + $7 shipping for their solid state E unit replacement- Lars] Tom Date: 99/08/27 8:20:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: TPDavis7 L. I know all about those reverse units! I have six American Model, one S-Helper and one Rex locos which are all DC hi-rail. I only have one Gilbert 293 on the rooster, converted to DC, but in the paint shop at this time. Back when most of my locos were AF I had converted a 310 K5 and a four piece boiler 300 Atlantic to DC can motors, they were really smooth runners and I now wish that I had not sold them. My 302 Atlantic had an electronic reverse unit from Dallee which caused no problems at all. My other two locos at the time a 282 and 290 Pacifics had the traditional Flyer reverse unit which performed fairly well with proper care. For myself DC operations are the only way to go. There is the old joke that with every American Flyer train set sold it should include a three foot length of broom handle to use to wack the tender to get the reverse unit to function! Tom ate: 99/08/27 11:50:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: finnhill@... (The Reis') I have 2 of the SHS switchers as well as AM PA's and GP 35's running on Flyer track and switches using Flyer transformers. I have had great success with them for a couple of years now. The electronic reverse units are far superior to the old flyer reverse units. They appear to be less suseptable to dirty track and other problems as well as being better detailed and painted. Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa Date: 99/08/28 5:29:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: silvertom@... (Tom Rolfsmeyer) Lars,I have a SHS SW9 AC and it is a real jewel. Its pulling power and low speed make it an excellent choice for switching. I have had mine for about 9 months now and I really like it. Tom And in response to a question to showcase line as to diffferences between the original SW-1 and the SW-9: Date: 99/08/28 7:32:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time From: robin@... (Robin Thompson) Dear "L". The 1939 SW-1 is different in the following ways: 1. The cab front windows are arched, and there is no battery box access on the engineer side of the cab. The rear headlight is a single lens. The cab is moved forward a few feet. 2. The Body has a 2 step transition between the cab and the top of the body roof line. The body is shorter. The front grill is not as tall and a different mesh and there is a sandbox in the front. Instead of a top grill, louvers are used for ventilation. The bell is moved forward. The stack is different. 3. The chassis tread pattern is different, all of the corner hand rails are different. The triangular corner pieces (fallsies) are different. 4. The SW-9 is 1200 hp, the SW-1 is 600 hp. The 00290 AC/DC electronic reverse unit is 1.150 X 1.3.528" x 0.455" high. It is designed to work with DC can motors that draw about an amp at lock rotor. We used 60 volt mosfets and a transorb so that it is protected to 28 volts AC. We have only had a few fail and have sold over 2700 SW-9s. If I have not answered you questions. please let me know? Don Thompson Well I think this info is well worth the cost of admission to the S-List. Thanks to each of you helping to clarify what is what in the limited availability of switchers for S gauge. I really am not in love with any diesel but would use an old style one. Must convert that Atlantic in some way, either to DC or via a solid state E unit so I can count on it doing what I want it to! again thanx to all! Lars

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4733	From: Roger Petrella	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: AF GP-7 Shell

Does anyone have an AF GP-7 shell in good conditon they would part with? I have a chassis and the metal parts from the shell. It could be a 370, 371 or really any shell that was used on a chassis with knuckle couplers. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4734	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: aux. electrical pickup at loco wheels?

Well on my HO stuff I have added either tender or loco extra pickups (dockside) to minimize any problems getting juice to the unit. In tearing into the Atlantic(s) I finally realize all current comes from the tender wheelz. And the metal tires on the loco are insulated via whitewalls so one can add a skinny strip brass pickup at the tops of the wheels? I am not aware of any particular input problem (maybe due to the weight in the tender?) but has anyone else tried such a pickup and noticed any improvement? Am thinking AF steam here, have no idea what new steam or diesel has.... and anyone put hudson marker lights on an Atlantic? Thought that they just fit into the body in a drilled hole- or was there a boss on the Hudson body that the lights sat into? Long as I am this far along, a leeeetle more work is just a bonus if it runs right. If they dont fit, maybe O ga marker lights can be found. justa thought L. (the 'U no the name' guy)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4735	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Thankfully folks on the list are

Well, helpful, interested, interesting, once in a while sarcastic, and above all polite! Methinks some posts are from non list folks (???) i.e. I think wanders may come across the S List site and post? Too lazy to check it out, or too tired, now that I got that &*^&*^@#*(*@$ Atlantic slowly on the mend. thanx ALL! L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4736	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Road to happiness results

> > From: "Roy Hoffman" <rhoffman@...> > > > > I'm curious as to how many of us on the s-scale list came to our great > > scale. We have identified three possible paths. > > 1- AF > > 2- HO > > 3- Newbie > > Any other possibilities? Since so many of you responded to the above email, I thought I would go over them and try to come up with a summary. I was amazed at the results and you might be, too. Abbreviations used are AF, L for Lionel, and S for S-scale L-HO-S L-N-S L-AF-S L-AF L-HO-AF AF-S (3) AF-HO-N-AF AF-HO-S AF-HO-AF-S AF-N-HO-S AF-SN3 HON3-SN3 HO-O-TT-S OO-HO-O-P:48-S-P:64 HO-N-S N-S (2) MARX-AF-S AF 21 People and 18 paths to AF, Scale, or SN3.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4737	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Re: Alco Chassis

Hi Al: I have several Alco chassis, as follows: One dummy A unit from a Rocket, complete with speaker, headlight and trucks, but only one truck sideframes with drawbar, no coupler. Good to VG condition. Two double motor A units complete with everything but shells in horrible condition. The sheet metal frames, reversing units, headlights, two couplers and maybe one truck sideframes are all usable, but the motors and wheels are corroded beyond belief. Let me know what if any of this is of interest to you, I will mix and match and we can discuss price. I will let this go cheap! Bill Frazier In a message dated 99-08-31 06:08:21 EDT, you write: Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:18:25 -0700 From: "Al Babbitt" <ABabbitt@...> Subject: Alco chassis Anyone have one or two Alco-PA-1 chassis they're willing to part with for a reasonable price. I'd prefer the "dummy" chassis WITH trucks if possible, but if the price is right a non working junker chassis or two would be fine too. Also maybe someone has a 370 GP-9 chassis as well? I have some old Flyer shells that I'd like to use as dummies, but can't afford to spend much on this project. Maybe someone has a better or more reasonable solution to utilizing these shells. I welcome all ideas. Regard'S' Al Babbitt-Rocky Mtn. Hi-Railers-NASG Northwestern Flyer Trains-Boise, ID >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4738	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 8/31/1999
Subject: Re: Miller Switcher

To every one who answer the miller thing thanks. to Don Thompson There is only three molds left. that is all I received. They were given to me so I want nothing for them. I will weigh them and give you a figure. There is only the Hood mold--cab roof mold and a small part that I would have to look at again to see what it is. I under stand every thing else has been lost Larry Seattle Wa. Robin Thompson wrote: > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > > Dear Larry, > If you would REALLY like to see this model on the market again, we are interested. > > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > > Message: 12 > > > Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:13:49 -0700 > > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > Subject: Re: [Proto64] Re: [S-Scale] S scale convention 2000 > > > > I have the molds that are left of the S Scale Miller alco S4 yard switcher. I > > talked to the owner and he said " make a boat anchor" out of them. If any one > > wants them they are yours for the cost of shipping. I will put them in the trash > > next sunday Sept 4, 1999. So let me hear from you. > > Larry > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, > NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9 percent FIXED APR. > Apply online today! http://www.onelist.com/ad/nextcard1 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4739	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: AM and SHS and ?

Over the past year I have seen various grumbling bout S stuff and who makes it and why and why not and on and on, someone else said some of it was 'just dreaming'.... With S being a cross dresser between S scale, S hirail, AF, collectors, and all of the aforementioned, folks must simply count their blessings those companys exist. Let alone the company owner replying to folks on a mailing list. This is a pretty specialized market! One mans opinion, L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4740	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Homosote Help

Hello, I wanted to thank all who responded to me in regards to questions on homosote. I decided to go another route...instead of laying down homosote on top of the plywood..I elected to try thin "berber padding"...and on top of that green indoor/outdoor carpeting...results are great....the noise level took a nose dive...and the carpeting looks great...I will add other material for landscape....but it works and looks well..and it does not kill the knees as you crawl around...plus the cost for a 5 X 16 was <$100.00 again thanks, Jeff --

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4741	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: D1899 Canadian Flyer Catalog

>>> Joe Pereira wrote: Please, will someone who has Flyer catalogues D1801 -- 1955 Canadian Consumer (no prices) D1899 -- 1956 Canadian Consumer (no prices) D2070 -- 1958 Canada Catalog tell me what Canadian addresses, if any, they contain? >>> Joe, I have two D1899s that I got as a boy in 1956. There are no addresses printed in them, and there is absolutely nothing in them to indicate that they are Canadian. I have no idea how they were delivered to Boise, Idaho, but our local dealer obviously had a stock of them, and his rubber stamp is on the back of each. (Maybe someone at AC Gilbert thought Idaho was a Canadian province? But, usually, our state is just confused with Iowa and Ohio. <g>) By the way, the D1899 was a mystery to me for a few years because it had been incorrectly listed in the Greenberg's AF Pocket Guide (pricer) as a "Big Value American Flyer Railroad Trestle System Special Set Brochure." That certainly didn't seem to match what I had, so I wrote to Greenberg's in 1998, and they responded that it was an editing error continued since their 1995 edition. That's when I found out that the D1899 is actually the 1956 Canadian Consumer Catalog, which is why it contained no prices. The Greenberg editor said that the correct description of the D1899 is contained in their hardbound Volume II, and that, as a result of my inquiry, they would correct the error in the 1999 Pocket Guide. Hope this helps, but sorry there are no addresses. None of the other ACG catalogs in my collection contain any addresses other than rubber stamps of local dealers. YourS, John Eichmann Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho jeichmann@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4742	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Old Pullman Switch Status

Howdy Friends We have received the backorder for Old Pullman #6 and #8 Switches; now all switches, #4, 5, 6, 8, 10, and two curved, are in stock ready to ship. These switches are assembled, code 100, nickel silver rail, NASG standards, ready for you to spike to your ties. And a restock of Mt Albert ties is due in any day! These items, and other track products, can be seen at http://www.btsrr.com/btsopm01.htm Thanks, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4743	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Re: 18th Fall Get-together

Dear Friends, If you live in the Northeast, and are interested in a attending a S gauge trains show that caters to the S gauge operator and model builder, you may want to consider this event. The Central Jersey S Scalers presents: 18th Annual Fall Get-Together September 24, 25 & 26 Christ Episcopal Church South Amboy, NJ INTRODUCTION As the host club, The Central Jersey "S" Scalers welcomes everyone to join us at this year's 18th Annual Fall Get-Together. Registration $26(with buffet - evening banquet) $12 (no buffet, but brunch, soft drinks & lunch) EXHIBITS The modules and manufacturers will share a 75' x 50' hall. Meet S Scale dealers, brass importers and S manufacturers. Tables are still available for those who attend. The first 4' is free, each additional 8' is $15.00. MODULAR LAYOUT If you would like to bring a module to our convention contact: Don Thompson , Module Coordinator 2 Roberts Rd. New Brunswick, NJ 08901 mail to robin@... The deadline for requests to bring modules is September 20th. Modules should be to the NASG S-MOD SYSTEM. If you are not�able to bring a module, you can still be a part of the operations. DIRECTIONS TO CHURCH HALL Take the Garden State Pky. South to exit 124. Turn left on to Main St. (South Amboy). The Church Hall is at the intersection of Main St. and Broadway. South Amboy Train Station is on Broadway. DIRECTIONS TO CHURCH HALL FROM THE MOTEL Take RT 514 North. Next exit is Rt 440 East(I-287 E). Proceed on RT 440 to the RT 9 South Exit. On Rt 9 get off at first exit. Go 3/4 around the circle and turn Right on to Main St. (South Amboy). The Church Hall is at the intersection of Main St. and Broadway. South Amboy Train Station is on Broadway. DIRECTIONS TO THE MOTEL From the NJ Turnpike, take Exit 10. Stay to right, look for the signs for Rt. 514 - Raritan Center. On RT 514, at the first light, take the jug handle to the right. The Ramada is 9 stories high and on the left Rate - $75/nite. Contact person - Renee Desaurmaux , Group - CJSS Fall Get-Together. 732-661-1000 . Don Thompson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4744	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Fw: Lledo

Check out DG 79002 IS S, This has been available in a variety of colors, including red This truck has also been available as a fuel tanker, AND see http://www.lledo.com/daysgone/dgdet.ihtml?smodel=SL70005 Also, http://www.lledo.com/daysgone/dgdet.ihtml?smodel=SL67005 Kelvin, is this S scale? 'Seven Up� or as it was first known �Bib-Label Lithiated Lemon-Lime Soda� Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Train Watching Along the Erie Canal http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4745	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: AM GP9 fans

I wonder if anyone out there has some spare fans from an AM GP9/GP18. What I'm looking for is the inserts with the two smaller double fans. I have extras of the larger single fan plus other AM GP9 parts including plastic handrails I would be glad to trade for. thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4746	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: david dewey and marx

david is on the mark(x) with his comment about Marx 3/16 scale rolling stock-i use it with both 0 gauge tinplate, and , with Flyer trucks, with S gauge Flyer.the Marx pieces represent the last bargain left in toy traindom. they look equally nice behind a brand L 1666 or a Flyer 322. their proportions are VERY scale like( and in 0 , oh,my, what nice trucks!) the combination of lithographed and embossed details is very convincing , and utilising Marx rolling stock with your Flyer fleshes out the collection nicely , giving you road names and bodies that Gilbert did not offer. try 'em, you'll like 'em!-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4747	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Re: david dewey and marx

Some of us who are B.A.M. (Before American Models and all due respect to Bashista, accordingly) occasionally resorted to adopting cars from Mars and other places to get simething different. There was a Marx hopper that rode on a single axle in a simulated plastic rep. of a 4-wheel truck. Remove the wheelset and the truck rep., and install scale trucks and a Ace conversion bolster, and you have a 40' dual hopper with bays slightly large. I have had one for 30+ years, and a second, even with a roof, came in the stuff from Will Estes. Will also converted a Marx gon, looks like a good short, hi-side car. There were several different boxcar bodies from Marx that were the same size (as determined by fit of the Ace conversion floor), they just had a steeper slope on the roof. I even have tucked away somewhere a metal gon and caboose that were pre-war AF O-gauge, wuth S gauge trucks retrofitted. Will also had in his estate several wild reincarnations of an AF caboose shell--a bobber, a logging caboose (cut off one end, etc.) Whatever we could do--remember, at one time we S gaugers were the "wood-butchers" of the hobby- two of the old C-D wood boilers now lay on the shelf here.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4748	From: Richard	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Precast by Rail

I'm wondering?? I am currently doing some work for a largish Precast Concrete company. I have been looking out into their fabrication areas etc and this all got me to thinking. Does the RAil industry move any precast panels around and if so what it?? Flats and Gons come immediately to mind but maybe something diiferent more specialised?? Anyone got any light on this one thanks >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4749	From: Bilfrazier@aol.com	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Alco chassis

To: Al, Mike, David, Dave & anyone else interested: I am surprised at the interest in these chassis. Since I was answering Al's request, he should have first choice on these items. I will sell the chassis for $15.00 each, or all three for $40.00, plus actual shipping. I am pricing the powered units mainly on the basis of the value of the reversing units, although there may be some other salvageable parts there. I found another sideframes set in my junk box and will include that with the dummy frame, so that it will be complete. If any or all of you are still interested, let me know. I will wait a day or two to sort out who wants what. Thanks, _Bill Frazier _______________________________________________________ Hi Al: I have several Alco chassis, as follows: One dummy A unit from a Rocket, complete with speaker, headlight and trucks, but only one truck sideframes with drawbar, no coupler. Good to VG condition. Two double motor A units complete with everything but shells in horrible condition. The sheet metal frames, reversing units, headlights, two couplers and maybe one truck sideframes are all usable, but the motors and wheels are corroded beyond belief. Let me know what if any of this is of interest to you, I will mix and match and we can discuss price. I will let this go cheap! Bill Frazier In a message dated 99-08-31 06:08:21 EDT, you write: Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:18:25 -0700 From: "Al Babbitt" <ABabbitt@...> Subject: Alco chassis Anyone have one or two Alco-PA-1 chassis they're willing to part with for a reasonable price. I'd prefer the "dummy" chassis WITH trucks if possible, but if the price is right a non working junker chassis or two would be fine too. Also maybe someone has a 370 GP-9 chassis as well? I have some old Flyer shells that I'd like to use as dummies, but can't afford to spend much on this project. Maybe someone has a better or more reasonable solution to utilizing these shells. I welcome all ideas. Regard'S' Al Babbitt-Rocky Mtn. Hi-Railers-NASG Northwestern Flyer Trains-Boise, ID _______________________________________________ Subj: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Alco Chassis Date: 99-08-31 19:43:17 EDT From: A normal 1 To: Bilfrazier How Much Mike S ____________________________________________________ Subj: Alco stuff Date: 99-08-31 22:42:14 EDT From: djdewey@... (David Dewey) To: Bilfrazier@... Bill, If Al doesn't want the corroded chassis, I'm interested!! S David ______________________________________________________ Subj: Re: [S-Trains] Re: Alco Chassis Date: 99-09-01 08:41:43 EDT From: aftrain@... (D Simon) To: Bilfrazier@... Hi Bill I would be interested in both Please let me know what you are looking for ________________________________________________ Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4750	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/1/1999
Subject: Thoughts about the CJ-style locos...

I just had to jump in here while the topic is on the CJ-style locos. I've got three of them -- two 21166s and a 21165. None have smoke or choo-choo, one is even w/o a reverse unit! They've been part of my "to-do" collection for about 20 years, and I finally got them all running again this summer. Up to now I've only run Atlantics, Pacifics, and a Franklin. These CJs were an entirely new experience. The first 21166 I got back on the track REALLY suffered from being too light-weight over the front wheels. As a matter of fact, the front wheels were constantly derailing because the loco was perpetually "popping a wheelie" going down the track! And that was only pulling 4 or 5 cars and a caboose! I found some scrap metal and filled the space the smoke unit would normally occupy with some weight and that has solved almost all of its problems. Another puzzlement -- why did Gilbert put the rubber traction tires on the *front* two drive wheels instead of the back two? These CJ locos, and the lightweight Atlantics w/o smoke (such as a #307) have simply AWFUL traction because of this! The back two wheels slip and slide against the track and raise the front of the engine up, which further lessons the effectiveness of the rubber tires on the front two drive wheels. Adding weight to the front of the logo (where the smoke unit would go) helps keep the traction tires in contact with the rails and lessons the undignified "popping a wheelie" look as the train travels down the track. But by FAR the most IRKSOME trait of the CJ locos with a reverse unit is the way the tender's drawbar can easily lock the reverse unit's lever in the UP position. Just pick the tender up a LITTLE to rerail its wheels after a mishap or to reset a knuckle coupler and you will have inadvertently locked your reverse unit in the UP position. It was only amusing the first couple of times... So, my thoughts after getting my first CJ back on the tracks was that if was the kind of "crap" Gilbert was selling in the mid 60's, it's little wonder people lost interest in S trains! However, after getting to know my CJs a bit better, I find them to be *fantastic* runners with a very willing and eager motor! All of them will out-run my Pacific-style locos (283 and 290), and they seem to respond better at slow speeds too. Some of this is probably because they're not pumping a smoke unit piston so they have more power going to the wheels. That, and the different motor and lighter body must contribute to their particular "style" when running. Just a few "CJ" thoughts -- none of which have anything to do with side rods...<grin> Any other "CJ" thoughts out there? -=[ Brian ]=- _______________________________________________________ Now they show you how detergents take out bloodstains-- a pretty disturbing image. I'm thinking if you've got a bloody T-shirt...maybe laundry isn't your biggest problem. _______________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4751	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: taxis

Thanks for the heads up on taxi set. Found one an eBay - way more than $6.99 (surprise) and bidding not done. Unfortunately don't have a nearby Kaybee. If anyone buys a set or two and doesn't want the middle two cabs, but would be willing to sell them, please let me know.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4752	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: CJ's

Bought a kc 21168 at York in October. A lot of fun. Peppy, smokey, with crisp choo-choo. Not the same as a heavy-hauler die cast cousin, but I'm glad I bought one. PS Also pleasantly surprised with the 21085 I bought at about the same time. Faaaaast, and remarkably stable, just not as strong a long/heavy train puller as 293/326/326/336 engines.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4753	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: indoor outdoor carpet

I use that too, but don't have the pad underneath. That's probably even better. However, I have found that not mounting the track down too firnly also helps with noise. I screw my track down and by leaving just a little "float" have a quieter running layout with no balance or stability problems even when running large, fast, heavy engines (336, 326).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4754	From: Mark Preman	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

The September list is posted at: http://www.americanflyertrains.com Now repeat after me; "But Hun, I have wanted this sawmill since 1960!" Happy hunting! Mark

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4755	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: 770 Loading Platform Problem

I just got a loading platform and am having a problem: After the man shoves a milk can off, the next one in the supply chute gets pushed into the ejection chamber before the little man's arm returns to the rear position. This prevents the man from returning to the proper position and the arm is now in front of the milk can instead of behind it. This situation then requires manual intervention to fix. Is there something missing? The man was broken into 3 pieces when I received it, and I think I've glued him all back together. His arm that he shoves with is just a straight peg; Is it supposed to also have something extended out the back to prevent the can from moving in behind it? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4756	From: JTMGoBlue@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: Wanted

Greetings: I am looking for two items and hope that someone out there might be able to help. The first is Greenberg's Guide to AF, Volume II. The second comes from my 11 year old. At the Greenberg show here in Dayton, he found a new, mint in box Southern Pacific observation car which he negotiated for $50. Now, we are looking for the other cars. If anyone knows of the whereabouts of either of these, please let me know at jtMGoBlue@.... Thanks. Terry MacEwen

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4757	From: Marinello, Jon	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: WANTED: SHS DL&W #00127 "Rebuilt" Box Car

Hi All, Anyone have an S-Helper Service DL&W "Rebuilt" Box Car they would be willing to part with? Thanks! --jon

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4758	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: indoor outdoor

This isn't the green grassy, shiny, plastic Welcome-mat type of i/o. What I use is more like a heavy-duty 3/16"-thick felt with green, black, and brown color variation throughout it. Doesn't shed, vacuums easliy, and cushions crashes/tip-overs. Available in most home improvement stores in the i/o carpet department.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4759	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: Re: 770 Loading Platform Problem

Is this similar to the one that loads crates? If so, I would check to make sure the solenoid sprind is bringing the man back freely with no bind whatsoever. I recently cleaned up the solenoid plunger and slides with solvent, made sure there was no residual oil, and rewired the controls on my loader and it works fine. I think his arm is supposed to prevent the next carton from entering. His arm may be positioned too far toward the car. Are you sure milk cans and not black cartons are the correct thing to use? In looking at mine I can see where a round milk can might allow his arm to get in front of it. Doesn't happen with cartons. Hope this helps. Scott Holm wrote: > > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > I just got a loading platform and am having a problem: After the man shoves a > milk can off, the next one in the supply chute gets pushed into the ejection > chamber before the little man's arm returns to the rear position. This prevents > the man from returning to the proper position and the arm is now in front of > the milk can instead of behind it. This situation then requires manual > intervention to fix. Is there something missing? The man was broken into 3 > pieces when I received it, and I think I've glued him all back together. His > arm that he shoves with is just a straight peg; Is it supposed to also have > something extended out the back to prevent the can from moving in behind it? > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ATTENTION ONElist MEMBERS: Get your ONElist news! > Join our MEMBER NEWSLETTER here: > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/newsletter2 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4760	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: Re: 770 Loading Platform Problem

Scott, usually these platforms run very reliably with the exception of the loads not going down the chute all the way. Your problen is with the throw of the plate the man rides on or the plate itself. Make sure the rear corner of the plate he rides on is square, not rounded off. If this is good, you need to check the pin that drives him forward or the slot that pin rides in. Look for the pin to be excessively worn on the front edge there it would hit the end of the slot. This will cause the plate to travel too far allowing the box to load behind the man. Also see that the rod it perfectly perpendicular. If its bent slightly forward, this too may cause the man to move too far forward. The last thing to check is the slot. If the pin is in good order, check to see that the slot is not worn at the front edge allowing the plate the man is on to travel too far forward. If all of this fails, while your in there looking, check to see that there were no modifications or major repairs made. I had a 770 once that someone had replaced the pin with a screw, and it threw the operation off because they drilled the hole open to fit it thru messing up the throw of that plate. If someone had the original pin break off for example and had to drill a new hole slightly forward of the original, this will cause the plate to throw too far forward. It makes no difference what so ever if your using the boxes or the milk cans (with the square bases...) as long as they are not repros that are smaller than originals. I have seen repro boxes that are slightly smaller than originals, and this will cause your problem as well. Good luck let us all know what the gremlin was if you find it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4761	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: ATTENTION: eBAY item#156869969

I'm sorry -- I couldn't resist :-) Periodically I see something on eBay that by of interest! Enjoy! Michael PS A 1998 edition is also available in another auction... >I saw this item for sale at eBay, the world's largest personal trading >community, and thought that you might be interested. > >Title of item: The Showcase Line 1997 S Scale Catalog(S-Help >Seller: henryjhaus@... >Starts: 09/02/99, 11:09:20 PDT >Ends: 09/12/99, 11:09:20 PDT >Price: Starts at $2.34 >To bid on the item, go >to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=156869969 > > >Item Description: > "The Showcase Line 1997 S Scale Catalog - The Dawn of a New Age > in Model Railroading". Published by S-Helper Service, New Brunswick, NJ. > 8 pages in full color without prices. Condition very good. Buyer Pays > Shipping - $1.25 in US (1 lb. book rate), Other As Agreed. 68 pages of > other aviation, model trains, calendars, magazines, sports, railroad, > traction, transportation, and travel memorabilia (including a lot of > travel brochures from the 50's through 90's) available, email for list. > Thank you. (Sorry, no scanner, email for additional information.) > > Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at > http://www.ebay.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4762	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 9/2/1999
Subject: Sam Ting

>>Last weekend I watched on TV as the Yankees played 4 games in Seattle at the new stadium, Safeco Field. This stadium has a busy 2 track freight line going right past it, with a grade crossing directly outside the right field wall. Long freights pulled by 3 to 5 huge hood units each roar past continuously. Each train blows its horn at least 8 times for the grade crossing, and when the locos pass by the whole stadium shakes. What a gas! The first game, eight trains went by. They had a camera by the tracks to show them. I loved it. Big time baseball and big time railroading, all at once. There 's also an intermodal yard right past the grade crossing but they didn't show it much. Actually this is typical modern American thinking. Oh, there's a railroad there? Forget about it! Tom Jarcho<<<<<< ====================================== HEY, we got sorta the same in Rochester NY. The new oldly styled stadium for our local farm team sets up against the NYC mainline. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Train Watching Along the Erie Canal http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4763	From: Scott Brown	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 357

Does anyone have an opinion about American Models GG-1 ? It looks beautiful on their web page. I'm considering buying one and am concerned about performance especially as it is so long. AM states it will negotiate tight AF curves. Is the motor powerful enough to pull a passenger consist of AF (not AM) cars ? Any other comments ? Scott Brown sbrown56@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4764	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 357

This baby runs as good as it looks and the sound in the AC hirail version is great. It swings out a bit on AF curves but does not derail on reasonably flat AF trackage. The articulated frame lets the couplers mate well with AF cars on curves without causing derailments. Pulling power is good because it has dual motors and is heavy. Scott Brown wrote: > > From: Scott Brown <sbrown56@...> > > Does anyone have an opinion about American Models GG-1 ? It > looks beautiful on their web page. I'm considering buying > one and am concerned about performance especially as it is > so long. AM states it will negotiate tight AF curves. Is the > motor powerful enough to pull a passenger consist of AF (not > AM) cars ? Any other comments ? > > Scott Brown > sbrown56@... > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4765	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Why S (back then)

OK its history time ! Just after WWII (thats world war two not world war eleven for you younger guys) Dad got me a Lionel freight set. A metallic grey loco and about 3 cars? An oval of track, dont think any switches. Sitting under the Xmas tree one year bout 1946. And it was fun for several years. But Getting older and seeing the ads, WOW. A train with TWO thats TWO rails! And smoke and choo choo!!!!! Of course by then I was hooked on trains and building lots of models of all sorts. Being one of the Depression year people, he was frugal and not buying another set. Well My mothers side of family married late if at all, so I had several uncles and aunts that gave us Grrrrrrreat gifts. One year, cant remember the occasion , here was this AF Hudson set!! My Uncle Gus overrode my Dads objections and bought this set for me. The Lionel went to my brothers. Of course by 6 months I was ready for a real layout so I got a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood mounted on couplea tables in a corner of the basement. And it began. Including plaster tunnel and a bankcut on one curve, etc etc. Buildings I made, Tootsie toys trucks, people made from little rolled cylinders of plastic wood and painted, U name it. Ah But no switch or siding! Cant afford em. But look- heres a switch KIT that U can build your own! THink I sent away to Walthers and got it- AAAAAaaagh! What is this! Pieces of track, little wood ties, whatever. OK Here it is I gotta build it somehow. THink I musta been about 14? Somehow I managed to assembble that switch including soldering, I think, the frog? Prior to this I had never soldered. After much work (reminds me of the Atlantic from Hell?) the switch functioned and now I had a siding. added a standalone parallel length of track to store cars on. And got a Lionel coal loader (AF was too pricey) with the generator alongside and a conveyor belt. Spewed coal around too but it added charm... Somewhere I have ONE photo of that layout, a closeup of the Hudson coming thru that cut on one curve. Well Why AF back then? 2 rails, nice size, good detailing, smoke and choo choo, and nobody else had one. Couldnt afford the action stuff tho. Any of this ring a bell :o/> ? Incidently it had the same reverse mechanism....... L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4766	From: lifetalk.radio@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: 1951 AF

My parents had already purchased a Hudson AF set for me at Christmas. After the holiday my father discovered at Macy's Dept. store a box on the counter of the toy dept filled with engines. They were demonstrator's from the store layouts. $5 each. He purchased a couple of diesels and a 334DC which hadn't been run because the store clerks didn't understand DC. Blum's Hobby House explained thngs and sold my father a rectifier. I can only hope for such a serendipitous find today. Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4767	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Rem's Railroad Models

Anyone know anything about a company called Rem's Railroad Models. According to the September 1999 issue of Hobby Merchandiser, this company is: "expanding its line of craftsman-style freight car kits into S-scale. Among the kits are outside braced and double-sheathed boxcars. They will be available in both standard and narrow gauge and will come with Kadee couplers, even though the kits are sold without trucks." I have sent off for more information about this company. Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4768	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: AF Database Application

Still some left in stock. Thanks to those who have ordered to date. Just $30 & $4 S&H E-Mail Trains16@... to order. Thanks...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4769	From: The Reis's	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 357

I have a GG-1 running on flyer track and it runs great. The only problem I had was things around the track like portals on curves, a double track close by, etc. It takes up a lot of space outside the track area on curves. It pulls great. The sound unit is worth it alone. I use a mix of flyer and SHS and AM cars without problems. Remember usually the flyer cars need to have their wheels and axles cleaned and lubed for easier rolling. Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Brown <sbrown56@...> To: <S-Trains@onelist.com> Sent: Friday, September 03, 1999 6:03 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Digest Number 357 > From: Scott Brown <sbrown56@...> > > Does anyone have an opinion about American Models GG-1 ? It > looks beautiful on their web page. I'm considering buying > one and am concerned about performance especially as it is > so long. AM states it will negotiate tight AF curves. Is the > motor powerful enough to pull a passenger consist of AF (not > AM) cars ? Any other comments ? > > Scott Brown > sbrown56@... > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4770	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 357

In a message dated 9/3/99 9:12:25 AM, cesmith@... writes: << Pulling power is good because it has dual motors and is heavy. >> AC Hi-rail version is highly recommended from this quarter, too. AM GG-1 has one motor, however. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4771	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 9/3/1999
Subject: Re: 770 man

In a message dated 9/3/99 6:30:09 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << I just got a loading platform and am having a problem: After the man shoves a milk can off, the next one in the supply chute gets pushed into the ejection chamber before the little man's arm returns to the rear position. This prevents the man from returning to the proper position and the arm is now in front of the milk can instead of behind it. This situation then requires manual intervention to fix >> Well, no one else has mentioned this so.............. The 770 man's base is "adjustable" within the metal plate in which he sits. You need to remove him from that plate, slide him backward a bit, and then re-crimp him into the plate. He should be positioned within the crimped-plate such that when he is fully-forward, the <next> crate (or milk barrel) cannot slide in behind him, as you describe. By sliding him backward a bit, and then recrimping him there, that won't happen. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4772	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 9/4/1999
Subject: Flyer gurus

I'd be grateful for an address for any of the following Flyer authorities: David Garrigues Thad Lasky Richard Jewett Lon Moffitt Electronic mail, USPS or Pony Express. Doesn't matter. J9oe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4773	From: Mac at Fuse ADSL	Date: 9/4/1999
Subject: First Trains

message: 4 Date: 3 Sep 1999 14:14:32 -0000 From: lifetalk.radio@... Subject: 1951 AF Dwight Lehnhoff wrote: >After the holiday my father discovered at Macy's Dept. store >a box on the counter of the toy dept filled with engines. >They were demonstrator's from the store layouts. $5 each. >He purchased a couple of diesels and a 334DC which hadn't >been run because the store clerks didn't understand DC. >Blum's Hobby House explained things and sold my father a >rectifier. I can only hope for such a serendipitous find >today. My dad worked for BF Goodrich at the distribution center in Philadelphia. Goodrich had a toy fair every year in the fall for their company stores. Flyer was the official train of B.F.Goodrich and as such was always well represented at the "fair". Dad never let me take a train home, (business, ya know!) but somehow a new set of flyer seemed to end up under the tree. Coincidence? Mac ________________________________________ Forty is the old age of youth, fifty the youth of old age.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4774	From: Don652@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/4/1999
Subject: Sears Wish Book

Just received my 1999 Sears toy catalog wish book and on page 150 there is a set of 5 Mint Edition Collectibles that are 31/4" long and include a 35 Ford pickup,49 Mercury coupe,58 Impala hardtop,57 Chevy coupe and a 59 Cadillac convertible and the hoods open on all of them. The price is $9.97.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4775	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/4/1999
Subject: New Survey

Hello, There is a new survey for the S-Trains community. This is a test of the survey function. In an event of an actual survey this would be the first question and would end in a ? ---- Possible answers are: o This would be answer one. o And this would be two. o And this would be three. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.onelist.com/surveys/S-Trains Note: Please do not reply to this message. Survey votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the ONElist website. Thanks! S-Trains Owner

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4776	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/4/1999
Subject: '53 Chev PU

Some S modelers members missed getting the '53 Chev Pickup from Racing Champions several years ago. It is AGAIN available, RED, in the Field and Stream series. I'm told a bit of time and alcohol will remove the Field and Stream printing on the truck. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division see Train Watching Along the Erie Canal at http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4777	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/4/1999
Subject: Fw: New S Scale Manufacturer

Somebody on the list was asking about REM. Here's info from Mike Shea. Ted Larson --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Mike Shea Hi guys, Before going on vacation I noticed an ad in one of the magazines announcing that a company called REM'S RAILROAD MODELS was expanding into S scale. I wrote for more information and it came while I was away. REM'S RAILROAD MODELS is owned by E. Hugh Heck III who has somehow acquired the nickname of Rem. In his letter Rem tells me that he has been producing HO kits for the last 7 years and has decided to test the waters in S scale. His first offerings include 3 standard gauge kits: an outside braced boxcar, a double sheathed boxcar, and a flat car. All are wood kits and represent 40' cars. Also offered are 3 Sn3 kits: an outside braced boxcar, a double sheathed boxcar, and a flat car. All are wood kits and represent 30' cars. Then there is a 40' standard gauge excursion gon (tourist railroad stuff). Finally, there is a kit to convert either flat car to a gondola. Kits include Grandt Line detail parts (brake set, queenposts, turnbuckles, NBW castings, stirrup steps and boxcar ladders, if a boxcar kit) and Kadee couplers. Missing are trucks and grabs. Prices are 29.95 and 37.49 for the standard gauge flats and boxes, respectively. Sn3 kits are 19.95 and 29.95 for the flats and boxes, respectively. The excursion car lists for 34.95 and the flatcar-to-gondola conversion kit is 2.95. The interesting thing here is that Rem offers to make any person or group a "dealer" - which means a 40% discount - for a minimum order of either (1) two of each of the above 7 car kits, or (2) 12 of any one car kit. That makes the standard gauge prices 17.97 and 22.49, the narrow gauge prices 11.97 and 17.97, and the excursion gon price 20.97. And once one becomes a "dealer" the minimum reorder is just 25.00 (2 or 3 kits) to keep the 40% discount. So my question is: Is there enough interest among the scale members of RASG to get up a "dealer" sized order? Photos, etc., will be available at tomorrow evening's work session at my house. Also available will be photos of my recent trip to 2-foot gauge land. - Mike Shea, Rochester, NY (USA) Member, National Association of S-Gaugers Rochester Area S-Gaugers Superintendent, Plattsburgh & Saranac Lake Railroad ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4778	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Re: Sam Ting

Big time railroading YES but how can you say big time baseball?????? In Seattle???? Larry ///mhrreast@... wrote: > From: mhrreast@... > > >>Last weekend I watched on TV as the Yankees played 4 games in Seattle > at > the new stadium, Safeco Field. This stadium has a busy 2 track freight > line going right past it, with a grade crossing directly outside the > right > field wall. Long freights pulled by 3 to 5 huge hood units each roar > past > continuously. Each train blows its horn at least 8 times for the grade > crossing, and when the locos pass by the whole stadium shakes. What a > gas! > The first game, eight trains went by. They had a camera by the tracks to > show them. I loved it. Big time baseball and big time railroading, all > at > once. There 's also an intermodal yard right past the grade crossing but > they didn't show it much. > > Actually this is typical modern American thinking. Oh, there's a > railroad > there? Forget about it! > > Tom Jarcho<<<<<< > > ====================================== > HEY, we got sorta the same in Rochester NY. The new oldly styled > stadium for our local farm team sets up against the NYC mainline. > > Ted Larson > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > Train Watching Along the Erie Canal > http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Create a list for FRIENDS & FAMILY... > ...and YOU can WIN $100 to Amazon.com. For details, go to > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/Teaser113 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4779	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Survey Sez

I was playing with the onelist survey option, did not realize it would send you all a note. I did create a survey, and then edited it after about 7 folks voted. I found out later that editing it restarts the survey tally. Bill Porter (wpporter@...) & Mike Green (mgreene@...) have expressed an interest in creating survey questions. I suggest you forward your ideas for survey questions to them. I suspect that maybe once a month we might create a new survey. Maybe some of the vendors on the list might like to find out about future spending plans. All the results can be archived. It is something new so I guess we will learn as we go. To see the current one question survey log onto http://www.onelist.com The survey may be a way for the 350 or so (quiet) members to have some input. PS. I added a section to my links page (http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/feature/worth.htm) called 'S' Friends Personal Sites, it's for non comercial, non-club, S related home pages. Let me know if I missed your's. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail paulyork@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4780	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Re: New S Scale Manufacturer

I think they were at the National Train Show in St. Paul last July. Someone came by and purchased some track to display new built up S Scale wooden boxcar kits. I was never able to find their table so I did not see the products. Did anyone else see thier stuff? Don Thompson mhrreast@... wrote: > From: mhrreast@... > > Somebody on the list was asking about REM. > Here's info from Mike Shea. > Ted Larson > > --------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mike Shea > > Hi guys, > > Before going on vacation I noticed an ad in one of the magazines > announcing that a company called REM'S RAILROAD MODELS was expanding > into S scale. I wrote for more information and it came while I was > away. > > REM'S RAILROAD MODELS is owned by E. Hugh Heck III who has somehow > acquired the nickname of Rem. In his letter Rem tells me that he has > been producing HO kits for the last 7 years and has decided to test the > waters in S scale. > > His first offerings include 3 standard gauge kits: an outside braced > boxcar, a double sheathed boxcar, and a flat car. All are wood kits and > represent 40' cars. > > Also offered are 3 Sn3 kits: an outside braced boxcar, a double sheathed > boxcar, and a flat car. All are wood kits and represent 30' cars. > > Then there is a 40' standard gauge excursion gon (tourist railroad > stuff). > > Finally, there is a kit to convert either flat car to a gondola. > > Kits include Grandt Line detail parts (brake set, queenposts, > turnbuckles, NBW castings, stirrup steps and boxcar ladders, if a boxcar > kit) and Kadee couplers. Missing are trucks and grabs. > > Prices are 29.95 and 37.49 for the standard gauge flats and boxes, > respectively. Sn3 kits are 19.95 and 29.95 for the flats and boxes, > respectively. The excursion car lists for 34.95 and the > flatcar-to-gondola conversion kit is 2.95. > > The interesting thing here is that Rem offers to make any person or > group a "dealer" - which means a 40% discount - for a minimum order of > either (1) two of each of the above 7 car kits, or (2) 12 of any one car > kit. That makes the standard gauge prices 17.97 and 22.49, the narrow > gauge prices 11.97 and 17.97, and the excursion gon price 20.97. And > once one becomes a "dealer" the minimum reorder is just 25.00 (2 or 3 > kits) to keep the 40% discount. > > So my question is: Is there enough interest among the scale members of > RASG to get up a "dealer" sized order? > > Photos, etc., will be available at tomorrow evening's work session at my > house. Also available will be photos of my recent trip to 2-foot gauge > land. > > - Mike Shea, Rochester, NY (USA) > Member, National Association of S-Gaugers > Rochester Area S-Gaugers > Superintendent, Plattsburgh & Saranac Lake Railroad

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4781	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 359

> Mike, I might be interested in several of these car kits. I'd like to get a catalog or flyer to see what they look like. Do you have the address for REM? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO > > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:53:50 -0400 > From: mhrreast@... > Subject: Fw: New S Scale Manufacturer > > Somebody on the list was asking about REM. > Here's info from Mike Shea. > Ted Larson > > --------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Mike Shea > > Hi guys, > > Before going on vacation I noticed an ad in one of the magazines > announcing that a company called REM'S RAILROAD MODELS was expanding > into S scale. I wrote for more information and it came while I was > away. > > REM'S RAILROAD MODELS is owned by E. Hugh Heck III who has somehow > acquired the nickname of Rem. In his letter Rem tells me that he has > been producing HO kits for the last 7 years and has decided to test the > waters in S scale. > > His first offerings include 3 standard gauge kits: an outside braced > boxcar, a double sheathed boxcar, and a flat car. All are wood kits and > represent 40' cars. > > Also offered are 3 Sn3 kits: an outside braced boxcar, a double sheathed > boxcar, and a flat car. All are wood kits and represent 30' cars. > > Then there is a 40' standard gauge excursion gon (tourist railroad > stuff). > > Finally, there is a kit to convert either flat car to a gondola. > > Kits include Grandt Line detail parts (brake set, queenposts, > turnbuckles, NBW castings, stirrup steps and boxcar ladders, if a boxcar > kit) and Kadee couplers. Missing are trucks and grabs. > > Prices are 29.95 and 37.49 for the standard gauge flats and boxes, > respectively. Sn3 kits are 19.95 and 29.95 for the flats and boxes, > respectively. The excursion car lists for 34.95 and the > flatcar-to-gondola conversion kit is 2.95. > > The interesting thing here is that Rem offers to make any person or > group a "dealer" - which means a 40% discount - for a minimum order of > either (1) two of each of the above 7 car kits, or (2) 12 of any one car > kit. That makes the standard gauge prices 17.97 and 22.49, the narrow > gauge prices 11.97 and 17.97, and the excursion gon price 20.97. And > once one becomes a "dealer" the minimum reorder is just 25.00 (2 or 3 > kits) to keep the 40% discount. > > So my question is: Is there enough interest among the scale members of > RASG to get up a "dealer" sized order? > > Photos, etc., will be available at tomorrow evening's work session at my > house. Also available will be photos of my recent trip to 2-foot gauge > land. > > - Mike Shea, Rochester, NY (USA) > Member, National Association of S-Gaugers > Rochester Area S-Gaugers > Superintendent, Plattsburgh & Saranac Lake Railroad >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4782	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Re: Miller Molds

When is the S Scale show in Calif? Don Thompson are you going to be there? Larry Robin Thompson wrote: > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > > I think they were at the National Train Show in St. Paul last July. Someone > came by and purchased some track to display new built up S Scale wooden > boxcar kits. I was never able to find their table so I did not see the > products. Did anyone else see thier stuff? > Don Thompson > > mhrreast@... wrote: > > > From: mhrreast@... > > > > Somebody on the list was asking about REM. > > Here's info from Mike Shea. > > Ted Larson > > > > --------- Forwarded message ---------- > > From: Mike Shea > > > > Hi guys, > > > > Before going on vacation I noticed an ad in one of the magazines > > announcing that a company called REM'S RAILROAD MODELS was expanding > > into S scale. I wrote for more information and it came while I was > > away. > > > > REM'S RAILROAD MODELS is owned by E. Hugh Heck III who has somehow > > acquired the nickname of Rem. In his letter Rem tells me that he has > > been producing HO kits for the last 7 years and has decided to test the > > waters in S scale. > > > > His first offerings include 3 standard gauge kits: an outside braced > > boxcar, a double sheathed boxcar, and a flat car. All are wood kits and > > represent 40' cars. > > > > Also offered are 3 Sn3 kits: an outside braced boxcar, a double sheathed > > boxcar, and a flat car. All are wood kits and represent 30' cars. > > > > Then there is a 40' standard gauge excursion gon (tourist railroad > > stuff). > > > > Finally, there is a kit to convert either flat car to a gondola. > > > > Kits include Grandt Line detail parts (brake set, queenposts, > > turnbuckles, NBW castings, stirrup steps and boxcar ladders, if a boxcar > > kit) and Kadee couplers. Missing are trucks and grabs. > > > > Prices are 29.95 and 37.49 for the standard gauge flats and boxes, > > respectively. Sn3 kits are 19.95 and 29.95 for the flats and boxes, > > respectively. The excursion car lists for 34.95 and the > > flatcar-to-gondola conversion kit is 2.95. > > > > The interesting thing here is that Rem offers to make any person or > > group a "dealer" - which means a 40% discount - for a minimum order of > > either (1) two of each of the above 7 car kits, or (2) 12 of any one car > > kit. That makes the standard gauge prices 17.97 and 22.49, the narrow > > gauge prices 11.97 and 17.97, and the excursion gon price 20.97. And > > once one becomes a "dealer" the minimum reorder is just 25.00 (2 or 3 > > kits) to keep the 40% discount. > > > > So my question is: Is there enough interest among the scale members of > > RASG to get up a "dealer" sized order? > > > > Photos, etc., will be available at tomorrow evening's work session at my > > house. Also available will be photos of my recent trip to 2-foot gauge > > land. > > > > - Mike Shea, Rochester, NY (USA) > > Member, National Association of S-Gaugers > > Rochester Area S-Gaugers > > Superintendent, Plattsburgh & Saranac Lake Railroad > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4783	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: '53 Chevy p/u

the 53 chevy pickup is also available at Walmart in faded red as a Car+Driver American Classic and in blue as a Road&Track series collectable- $1.99 each. As for the Field and Stream logo, hell, a little alcohol-J.D. Green Label preferred- and you won't care WHAT the durn-burn thing says!-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4784	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: San Jose

The only S Scale show I know of in California is in San Jose, August 2000. lawrence jackman wrote: > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > When is the S Scale show in Calif? Don Thompson are you going to be there? > Larry > > Robin Thompson wrote: > > > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > > > > I think they were at the National Train Show in St. Paul last July. Someone > > came by and purchased some track to display new built up S Scale wooden > > boxcar kits. I was never able to find their table so I did not see the > > products. Did anyone else see thier stuff? > > Don Thompson > > > > mhrreast@... wrote: > > > > > From: mhrreast@... > > > > > > Somebody on the list was asking about REM. > > > Here's info from Mike Shea. > > > Ted Larson > > > > > > --------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > From: Mike Shea > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Before going on vacation I noticed an ad in one of the magazines > > > announcing that a company called REM'S RAILROAD MODELS was expanding > > > into S scale. I wrote for more information and it came while I was > > > away. > > > > > > REM'S RAILROAD MODELS is owned by E. Hugh Heck III who has somehow > > > acquired the nickname of Rem. In his letter Rem tells me that he has > > > been producing HO kits for the last 7 years and has decided to test the > > > waters in S scale. > > > > > > His first offerings include 3 standard gauge kits: an outside braced > > > boxcar, a double sheathed boxcar, and a flat car. All are wood kits and > > > represent 40' cars. > > > > > > Also offered are 3 Sn3 kits: an outside braced boxcar, a double sheathed > > > boxcar, and a flat car. All are wood kits and represent 30' cars. > > > > > > Then there is a 40' standard gauge excursion gon (tourist railroad > > > stuff). > > > > > > Finally, there is a kit to convert either flat car to a gondola. > > > > > > Kits include Grandt Line detail parts (brake set, queenposts, > > > turnbuckles, NBW castings, stirrup steps and boxcar ladders, if a boxcar > > > kit) and Kadee couplers. Missing are trucks and grabs. > > > > > > Prices are 29.95 and 37.49 for the standard gauge flats and boxes, > > > respectively. Sn3 kits are 19.95 and 29.95 for the flats and boxes, > > > respectively. The excursion car lists for 34.95 and the > > > flatcar-to-gondola conversion kit is 2.95. > > > > > > The interesting thing here is that Rem offers to make any person or > > > group a "dealer" - which means a 40% discount - for a minimum order of > > > either (1) two of each of the above 7 car kits, or (2) 12 of any one car > > > kit. That makes the standard gauge prices 17.97 and 22.49, the narrow > > > gauge prices 11.97 and 17.97, and the excursion gon price 20.97. And > > > once one becomes a "dealer" the minimum reorder is just 25.00 (2 or 3 > > > kits) to keep the 40% discount. > > > > > > So my question is: Is there enough interest among the scale members of > > > RASG to get up a "dealer" sized order? > > > > > > Photos, etc., will be available at tomorrow evening's work session at my > > > house. Also available will be photos of my recent trip to 2-foot gauge > > > land. > > > > > > - Mike Shea, Rochester, NY (USA) > > > Member, National Association of S-Gaugers > > > Rochester Area S-Gaugers > > > Superintendent, Plattsburgh & Saranac Lake Railroad > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com by starting a new list at ONElist. > Drawing is held each week through September 17. For details go to: > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/Teaser116 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4785	From: SSabino39@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: No smoke for AF 312engine

Can anyone help with this problem ? Recently purchased an AF 312 at the all gauge show in New Haven a few weeks ago. Worked great at the show and when I initially ran it at home. Still runs great, except , no smoke. Purchased liquid smoke at the show and followed directions on the bottle, adding correct amount to engine. Still no smoke. What's wrong ? Rich

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4786	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Re: No smoke for AF 312engine

Rich, Any number of things could be wrong. 1) Smoke unit clogged w/ hardened old fluid Simple cure? Spray WD-40 or tuner cleaner down stack with loco tipped up, let sit for a bit, then run at open throttle to see if it can clear itself. 2) Wick burned, no longer wicking. Best cure same as broken element 3) Heating element burned out, replace w/new one (See FAQs for methods) 4) Wire to smoke unit broken (easiest fix!) If you are good w/ a soldering iron and can read an ohm meter, you can check the element by unsoldering one of the wires and checking ohm reading, should be 30-45 ohms. If you put the reverse unit in neutral, and remove the light bulb, and lift the cap that is wired to the smoke unit off the brush tube (catch the flying spring!) you don't have to unsolder anything to test. Let us know how the diagnostics go. S David D PS, maybe I lied, the easiest repair is the WD down the stack, doesn't require lifting the body off!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4787	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Ethical Question on Repainting

This may start a debate, but the question is, at what point is it deemed acceptable to refinish American Flyer equipment? Replacing the innards wheels, couplers, etc, is one thing to keep it running. Refinishing it is quite another. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. A fleck or two of missing paint is probably not the time to refinish it. with 50% of the finish missing undoubtedly is. Somewhere in between is the undefined line in the sand. Any comments on where that line ought to be? Alan Udy Rcky Mtn Hi-Railers Idaho Falls ID ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4788	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Repainting

Andy, A VERY GOOD question! However, I doubt you will find a consensus, as we each have different standards of "acceptable" finishes. Also, the rarity of the piece comes into the calculation. A chipped finish Gabe, for instance, would probably not even be considered for repaint, although a normal beacon tower in the same condition would. I remember years ago asking Don Olson (see, that's how long ago--pre R. Leventon!) for a "junker" Royal Blue for conversion to a Daylight (Yes, I've done one THAT long ago). He sent me one with a bent pilot and some chips in the finish. Well, the pilot was straightened without damaging the finish further, so I still have that RB in original condition, it's not that bad, IMHO! I had to make it clear that I wanted a REALLY bad loco! (just as I do today, junk box stuff only!) Now my 314AW is speckled on one side, but I'd hate to loose that factory applied 314AW number so I can just look at it from one side--hmm, that would require display shelves and "collector" type thinking, so what's my other option?--careful touch up with matching paint and a broom straw. Is this restoration or conservation? Probably restoration, as I'm not sure how you could reverse the touch-up, OTOH the finish is 90% original.... More debate!!! There's a guy out here that I'm told can do miracles on upgrading Flyer, and without new paint, if you so request. He won't share his secrets, more's the pity; that knowledge will be lost in time. I was a pair of NP Alco's he reportedly "did," they looked mint, couldn't see anything wrong with them, but then I don't know how good they looked before! So what's the ethics of this type of work? Will it throw some researcher in the future who wants to know how the products were made and what the original standards of finish quality were? (We seem to forget these were toys, variations mattered little, if the product was "acceptable" to the consumer.) Hmm, doubt I've given you any real answers, just more variables!!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4789	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Re: Smoke wicks

In a message dated 9/6/99 7:57:17 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << Can anyone help with this problem ? Recently purchased an AF 312 at the all gauge show in New Haven a few weeks ago. Worked great at the show and when I initially ran it at home. Still runs great, except , no smoke. Purchased liquid smoke at the show and followed directions on the bottle, adding correct amount to engine. Still no smoke. What's wrong ? >> Sounds like a hardened wick.....it smokes for a bit, after sitting, but then quits. The wicj is so stiff that it won't draw fluid thru it fast enough. Need to replace the wick. Not difficult. Replacement pre-wound wicks are only $2 each, plus shipping. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4790	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Downs Model RR Co.

I just got off the phone to Russ Downs. I was placing an order before he began running out of stock. He said I could pass the word on via S-Trains that no one should PANIC. The story in S Gaugian was not quite all correct. (Imagine that, a news story that does not get all the facts right.) He hopes Don will correct it next issue. True - Russ does plan to retire. True - The business is for sale. False - Production will cease when current supplies run out, about the end of the year. Russ plans to continue production until the business is sold, no matter how long it takes. I'm going to plan on doing business as usual until the business is sold and then hope whoever buys it does as fine of work as Russ. Downs is currently doing an S gauge club car for Virginia Train Collectors and I plan to use him again next year if the business is not sold. So place your orders with confidence.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4791	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Downs Model RR Co.

Opps, forgot to sign my last letter. Alice did not write that, but I use her e-mail address. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4792	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: ICQ

There was some discussion awhile back about whether we should avail ourselves of Instant Messenging, so that anytime we're on the web, we would have the opportunity to chat with whoever else is on, rather than waiting til the weekly ICQ chat session. There was a large consensus against this, because "we don't trust AOL." Here's some news clipped from a newsletter; "Since AOL acquired ICQ, it owns the IM business." Just so you know. Also, if I read the Onelist site correctly, you can also do Instant Messaging using ICQ. I have not signed up for either yet. Is there a consensus one way or the other? Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Train Watching Along the Erie Canal http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4793	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Looking for help

I have 3ea 4-6-4 Steam Engines that I need to have overhauled. They are in pretty good shape except they don't run. One does nothing but hum, one runs forward and backward if you get the relay to work but that is very seldom and the other doesn't reverse at all but does run. I would gladly pay to have these fine engines in running order once again so I can run them on my layout. If anyone oput there would be interested in getting these fine engines in running order for me would you please let me know. Thanks in advance, Ben The engines are a 322, 325ac and a K335.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4794	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: ethical question

Ethics (loose definition) is the science of morality, including the law. It has nothing directly to do with repainting toys. It can be applied to the sale and exchange of toys but usually is not, in my experience. The rule of thumb in those activities is caveat emptor (buyer beware). I consider the paint to be just another part. If missing or defective, it should be replaced. I see no reason to distinguish between "wheels, couplers, etc." and finishes. There would be a great deal of disagreement as to the arbitrary line separating which parts it is permissible to replace and which not. I believe that all parts of a toy train, including the finish, should be maintained with equal diligence. The difference is actually that while most people can replace wheels, couplers, motor parts, etc., repairing finishes should only done by a skilled and experienced craftsman such as myself. Many techinques are available to the skilled restorer which will overcome damage to toy train finishes. When done correctly, the result is often undetectable, or only visible under magnification. Badly damaged pieces can be completely repainted, but this is often not necessary. On the other hand, completely repainting a piece is relatively simple and thus within the skill range of many more hobbyists. It can certainly be cheaper than paying a professional to restore damaged areas. Finishes are constantly decaying and must be maintained. I see no sense in letting a treasured piece look shabby when it could easily look good, just to maintain its "all original" status. I strongly disagree with those who claim that a toy train loses value if some of the paint on it is not original. This kind of restoration work is necessary to preserve our toy train legacy over the long term. Those who are good at it should be treasured, not reviled. The all original rule is for those who collect "shelf potatoes" and unfairly penalizes those of us who like to operate our treasures. In deciding what to do with a damaged piece, financial factors can be considered. This is difficult because the" book value" of most pieces is mythical. A toy train is worth exactly what you can get for it, no more, no less. The expense of having a professional restore a train versus repainting it yourself must also be considered as well as the added value he may create. But this is a hobby so the main consideration should be what would be the most fun -- owning a junker, paying for a professional partial restoration, or repainting it yourself. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4795	From: clifma19@idt.net	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Am Flyer

Greetings to all, I am new to post but have been following for several weeks I have an American Flyer 21005 switcher (PRR) that is missing the bar from the engine to the tender. The engine runs well but I know nothing of the of when this engine was made and where I can get repair parts for it. I also have two late 1940's - early 1950's engines (Royal Blue and 312 steam) that both run slow and need some tune ups before they can be put back in general service. Any help I can get would be appreciated.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4796	From: AFSTrains@aol.com	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 360

In a message dated 9/6/99 7:57:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << Can anyone help with this problem ? Recently purchased an AF 312 at the all gauge show in New Haven a few weeks ago. Worked great at the show and when I initially ran it at home. Still runs great, except , no smoke. Purchased liquid smoke at the show and followed directions on the bottle, adding correct amount to engine. Still no smoke. What's wrong ? >> First - Is you engine a smoke in tender unit? If so, you need to add your fluid to the hole in the tender, there's a little cap you need to screw off first. Also make sure the smoke unit is turned on, it may have accidently been switched off, see the lever under the engine.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4797	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Re: San Jose

OK thanks. I thought there was something coming up soon. Trying to figure out how to get these Miller molds to you with least expense. Larry Don Thompson wrote: > The only S Scale show I know of in California is in San Jose, August 2000. > > lawrence jackman wrote: > > > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > > > When is the S Scale show in Calif? Don Thompson are you going to be there? > > Larry > > > > Robin Thompson wrote: > > > > > From: Robin Thompson <robin@...> > > > > > > I think they were at the National Train Show in St. Paul last July. Someone > > > came by and purchased some track to display new built up S Scale wooden > > > boxcar kits. I was never able to find their table so I did not see the > > > products. Did anyone else see thier stuff? > > > Don Thompson > > > > > > mhrreast@... wrote: > > > > > > > From: mhrreast@... > > > > > > > > Somebody on the list was asking about REM. > > > > Here's info from Mike Shea. > > > > Ted Larson > > > > > > > > --------- Forwarded message ---------- > > > > From: Mike Shea > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > > > Before going on vacation I noticed an ad in one of the magazines > > > > announcing that a company called REM'S RAILROAD MODELS was expanding > > > > into S scale. I wrote for more information and it came while I was > > > > away. > > > > > > > > REM'S RAILROAD MODELS is owned by E. Hugh Heck III who has somehow > > > > acquired the nickname of Rem. In his letter Rem tells me that he has > > > > been producing HO kits for the last 7 years and has decided to test the > > > > waters in S scale. > > > > > > > > His first offerings include 3 standard gauge kits: an outside braced > > > > boxcar, a double sheathed boxcar, and a flat car. All are wood kits and > > > > represent 40' cars. > > > > > > > > Also offered are 3 Sn3 kits: an outside braced boxcar, a double sheathed > > > > boxcar, and a flat car. All are wood kits and represent 30' cars. > > > > > > > > Then there is a 40' standard gauge excursion gon (tourist railroad > > > > stuff). > > > > > > > > Finally, there is a kit to convert either flat car to a gondola. > > > > > > > > Kits include Grandt Line detail parts (brake set, queenposts, > > > > turnbuckles, NBW castings, stirrup steps and boxcar ladders, if a boxcar > > > > kit) and Kadee couplers. Missing are trucks and grabs. > > > > > > > > Prices are 29.95 and 37.49 for the standard gauge flats and boxes, > > > > respectively. Sn3 kits are 19.95 and 29.95 for the flats and boxes, > > > > respectively. The excursion car lists for 34.95 and the > > > > flatcar-to-gondola conversion kit is 2.95. > > > > > > > > The interesting thing here is that Rem offers to make any person or > > > > group a "dealer" - which means a 40% discount - for a minimum order of > > > > either (1) two of each of the above 7 car kits, or (2) 12 of any one car > > > > kit. That makes the standard gauge prices 17.97 and 22.49, the narrow > > > > gauge prices 11.97 and 17.97, and the excursion gon price 20.97. And > > > > once one becomes a "dealer" the minimum reorder is just 25.00 (2 or 3 > > > > kits) to keep the 40% discount. > > > > > > > > So my question is: Is there enough interest among the scale members of > > > > RASG to get up a "dealer" sized order? > > > > > > > > Photos, etc., will be available at tomorrow evening's work session at my > > > > house. Also available will be photos of my recent trip to 2-foot gauge > > > > land. > > > > > > > > - Mike Shea, Rochester, NY (USA) > > > > Member, National Association of S-Gaugers > > > > Rochester Area S-Gaugers > > > > Superintendent, Plattsburgh & Saranac Lake Railroad > > > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > > > ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > > > You can WIN $100 to Amazon.com by starting a new list at ONElist. > > Drawing is held each week through September 17. For details go to: > > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/Teaser116 ">Click Here</a> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > Ask about the Fall Get-Together > September 24th, 25th & 26th > South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4798	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: repainting aged equipment

repainting is, ultimately, the call of the owner. as far as i am concerned, it becomes an ethical issue only when some cheat tries to pawn off a repaint as original finish.this may be easy to spot early in the "life" of the repaint, but if the engine is operated for a length of time-or even allowed to "age" by sitting out in a room, undusted, for a year or so, then the repainted status is more difficult to determine. one can be straight up and put TCA "REPAINTED TINPLATE" stickers on the item. place them out of the way-i take pride in pointing my stickers out to friends who oooh and aaahh over my "mint" circus set (one standard i use for determining repaint is ALWAYS use the nicest chassis that i have to install under my "new" shell). careful choice of matching paints, meticulous surface prep and using rubber stamps when available are the surest ways to a faithful and satisfying project.i don't feel that i'm spoiling a relic of the past-i want my trains to convey the high standard that they were held to in their day to the present and future trainaholics that i meet. a 336 northern is much more impressive with its nickel parts gleaming, crisp lettering, jewels catching light and belching smoke than faded,dull,weak numberboards and sitting on a shelf.American Flyer is not dead-junkers and clunkers can live their glory and beauty again, and you should be proud for improving the lot of the survivors-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4799	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Fwd: ICQ IM's

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4800	From: Toyguy5344@aol.com	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: ICQ IM's

i for one would be glad to yak it up with anyone from this list on ICQ. my # is:9161411, screen name is jayem-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4801	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: WD 40

Hi, I wanted to thank the gentleman that suggested putting wd 40 down the smoke stack of AF steamers that fail to smoke....it worked, now she smokes so strong I need a gas mask.. :-) I have 2 questions for you is there a flex track of sorts that looks like the old American Flyer track, I am tight on space for a 3rd. line on my platform...and also on the AF handcar is there a system out there that will make it reverse when it ends its run..kind of like a trolley on a straight run....thanks, Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4802	From: M.McConnell	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: Mike Shea's message on REM RR models

OK, I think I have Mike's message memorized now - you can stop quoting it. . .

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4803	From: SSabino39@aol.com	Date: 9/6/1999
Subject: no smoke AF312

Thanks to all who responded to my inquiry. I think I'll try replacing the wick first, since there seems to be some disagreement onthe merits of WD-40. ( to John Marganski - what valley are you talking about ? I live on Long Island.) Rich

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4804	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: AM GG-1

I like mine. Smooth, and fun. Negotiates AF turns fine, but needs room on the outside of curves due to considerable overhang. I did have a small problem with the pilot trucks de-realing because they'd sometimes clip either the body or chassis around some turns, but as I recall only had to trim a tab projecting upward (might have been off the coupler) to remedy that. Scale to the letter - - even the speed - - max's out around 100 scale mph as did the real one, so if you're looking for AF-type speeds don't be surprised, but otherwise a great addition to any operation.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4805	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: Sawmill - redone, but really done.

Despite many consecutive successful loads with the styrene "tees" I mentioned before, eventually I experienced some misfeeds that once again sent me back to the drawing board. I took a different approach, was successful, have the unit boxed up, and am finally confident it will work well when I open and operate it on Christmas Day (it's going to be a gift from my wife and kids). I removed the ejector and found that its "runners" were not fully formed along their entire length (shallow toward the front). Also, the ejector was slightly bowed with a low mid-section (looking at it from the front of the sawmill). I re-indented the "runners", made sure the piece rested flat and level on a smooth surface, and reinstalled it. With these changes I found the ejector wouldn't easily retract all the way because the it contacted the stud (at the very end of its return stroke the back edge of the ejector drops down lifting the front edge a tad). I shortened the spring a turn and that achieved complete retraction every time. I removed the upper and lower styrene tees, and tweaked (gently twisted) the tab beneath the deck until the action of the push-arm against it generated a consistently straight outward-push and inward-retraction of the ejector. I left the molding guide attached to the underside of the deck. Plank after plank it cranks 'em out. 10 volts, 12 volts, 13 volts, whatever. I still like 13 best of all, because of how "robust" it sounds and looks. PS I also found the walls of the plank-bay of the mill are not perfectly plumb, so in order to load more than 6-7 planks, they need to be 73 mm or less in length. Enjoy!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4806	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: Repaint or not repaint... that is the question.

With apologies to Shakespeare. I am, perhaps, the wrong person to be addressing this issue since I repainted a mint 290 NewYork, New Haven, and Hartford Pacific back in 1971 to serve at the point of my Anthracite Limited of the Schuylkill Valley Line. (I apologize before the collectors among us start throwing rocks at me or threaten to unsubscribe I have since repented and have donned sackcloth for my misdeeds.) My opinion is that it is not just a percentage of area that should determine when to repaint, rather also the size of the largest offensive blemish. For example, a scale 1 foot by 1 foot area that is in a visible location on the shell calls out for refinish. Repaint or not repaint... That's really a matter of personal opinion. Of course, all of us S-Gaugers will let prospective buyers know when we have made any attempt to restore our equipment. Someties the question is more like who should do the job. If you cannot handle a paintbrush or (better) an airbrush then it is time to check with someone who does restoration work. Many moons ago I was at a local train meet when I bought a box lot of ACG Flyer stuff. The stuff that was on top made it worth the asking price, so I didn't even haggle. (There was a "warbonnet" Santa Fe with a full set of aluminum coaches for about $35.) I just gave the guy what he was asking and took the box. When I got home I took stuff out and found a box car and caboose that someone had apparently tried to repaint for 60s and 70s Reading. The paint was lathered on so thick that details were obscured. The condition they were in made me think that there should be some kind of law requiring people to e licensed before they are allowed to buy paint or brushes, etc. Next train meet I sold these two gems for a couple of bucks each. A couple of years later I bought another box lot. When I got home I found these two beauties on the bottom again. I kept them this time. I guess I figured that they were Flyer equivalent boomerangs that would just keep coming back no matter what I did to get rid of them. In any case, the answer to the repaint question is up to the individual S-Gauger. Recognize the fact, however, that restoration diminshes the value of the piece. W. Thomas Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4807	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/5/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 357

Thanks for correcting my booboo about the AM GG1 power. I checked again and it has 1 very long can motor. It's my Am ALCO PA that has 2 motors driving a common flywheel. RBubeck327@... wrote: > > From: RBubeck327@... > > In a message dated 9/3/99 9:12:25 AM, cesmith@... writes: > > << Pulling power is good because it has dual motors and is heavy. >> > > AC Hi-rail version is highly recommended from this quarter, too. AM GG-1 has > one motor, however. > > RB > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ATTENTION ONElist MEMBERS: Get your ONElist news! > Join our MEMBER NEWSLETTER here: > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/newsletter3 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4808	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: Re: Ethical Question on Repainting

Response to: is it deemed acceptable to refinish American Flyer equipment? Basicaly yes. If it is yours, you can do anything you want to it. If you are planning to sell it you should tell the buyer of replaced parts and refinishing you have done. However your are not legaly required to. Unless - You told the buyer that it is completly original including finish. Then you could have a legal problem. Ethical ? Depends who the buyer is. Some won't care if it is repainted if the quality is excellent. However don't paint a Union pacific with NH colors This is a NO NO! Stick with the original color sceme. An excellent repainting ( in my opinion ) increases the value of a badly damaged finish on A item. Who wants a 4-8-4 loco with half the paint scratched off. Most collectors that buy such an item would get it refinished. And a large percentage of them won't tell anyone. Its like buying a car. If it looks original most won't care. I know, I know, We want original. There is so much to go around. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4809	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: '40 Ford

I went to KayBee to look for the Checker cabs. Did not find any, But, I saw the Hot Wheels '40 Ford sedan (which I have not seen in a LONG time), decorated in Police colors. Problem though, it was $6 rather than the usual Hot Wheels $1 price. Maybe it had decent tires? Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Train Watching Along the Erie Canal http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4810	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: slobbering Pennsy freaks

Have any of you Slobbering Pennsy Freaks tried to make some Keystone low level cars by kitbashing Flyer coach bodies? Now that an S GG-1 exists, it would make a nice train. I am stockpiling a few car bodies (in case I get old) and wonder if anyone has tried this project ahead of me. For some reason, every time I went to visit my cousins in Chevy Chase, I ended up on this train. It was quite a nice ride. Even the dry-as-a-desert-bone chicken sandwiches were tasty, and you could take home the paper antimacassars. Found one just the other day. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4811	From: Robert Jio	Date: 9/7/1999
Subject: 332 Northern marker lens

Hi S List, Can anyone tell me what colored marker lens came on the 332 D.C. Northern. I've seen green and I've seen red, but I don't know which ones to use. I'm in the process of restoring this locomotive. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Robert

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4812	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Wax Paper

After looking at some of my old Plasticville buildings...I wanted to put windows in...I found a low costs window project. "Wax Paper"...I tried one building..used scotch tape to hold it in....It looks very good...I just thought I pass it on to the list...Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4813	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Talking Toolshed

Is this for real? I could not find it my Greenberg volumes, price guides, etc. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=157080844

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4814	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Reproduction AF Catalogs

Are reproduction Flyer catalogs (consumer and/or dealer) available? I just purchased my first piece of Flyer paper (1956 Consumer Catalog D1866), and it's so new looking I'm wondering if it in fact it is a reproduction? Thanks for your help. Cool to read through, has some of the great trains (336, NP passenger) and accessories (970, 785, smasher, etc.), plus the set I grew up (I mean am growing up) with since my first Christmas - - The New Black Diamond.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4815	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Talking Toolshed

Yes, you will not find it in Greenbergs because its pre-war.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4816	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: ERTL Train Sets

Hi Guys; I was in Salt Lake City over the holiday weekend and noticed that the KayBee Outlet Store there has several of the ERTL train sets at $19.99 each. About half their regular price. They may be able to ship these...I'm not sure. Anyway KayBee outlet store is in Draper, Utah at the Outlet Mall. Their exact address should be in SLC yellow pages. Also thank you for all the responses to my request for Alco chassis. Now have three on the way and hope to begin yet another restoration project soon. Keep Flyer-ing! Regard'S' Al Babbitt-Rocky Mtn. Hi-Railers-NASG Boise, ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4817	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 362

AS IT IS WITH MOST THINGS IN LIFE, HONESTY IS THE BEST POLICY. WHILE ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILES CAN IN MANY INSTANCES RETAIN THEIR VALUE OR EVEN INCREASE IN VALUE BY BEING PROFESSIONALLY REFINISHED, MOST ANTIQUE ITEMS AND COLLECTIBLES DO NOT BENEFIT FROM THE REPAINTERS TOUCH. YOU ARE DEALING IN RARITY AND UNIQUENESS AND THEREFORE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO BE TRUTHFULL ABOUT THE CONDITION AND ORIGINALITY OF THE ITEM. MOST OPERATORS WOULD NOT MIND A REPAINTED PIECE BUT A SERIOUS COLLECTOR WOULD BE IRATE TO FIND OUT HIS BEAUTIFUL 21139 OR 21234 HAD BEEN "RESTORED". OBVIOUSLY, YOU CAN DO ANYTHING YOU WANT TO A PIECE THAT YOU OWN BUT IF YOU DO NOT INFORM THE PERSON THAT BUYS IT OF THE REWORK YOU ARE COMMITTING FRAUD. MAYBE IN A PERFECT WORLD A PROFESSIONAL RESTORATION WOULD INCREASE THE VALUE OF A DAMAGED PIECE BUT I DOUBT THAT IT WOULD EVER HAPPEN. IF ALL THE JUNKERS WERE RESTORED THEN THE OVERSUPPLY OF RARE ITEMS WOULD DEPRESS THE MARKET VALUE OF THE PIECES. JOHN To add to John's comments above, let me ask you, would you rather have an original wrinkled one hundred dollar bill or a crisp counterfit? Robin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4818	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: 332 headlight

The headlight on my 332 northern is very unimpressive, especially for this prestigious locomotive. Does anybody have any hints for improving the brightness? The bulb is mounted such that it is pointed downward and is not right behind the lens. I was thinking of trying to use fiber optics to get the light from the bulb to the lens. Has anybody done anything with fiber optics? I found a place on the web that sells fiber optics: http://www.toddsfiber.com/ How about using fiber optics to put a real headlight on a Franklin? perhaps a hole could be drilled through the headlight and the bulb be hidden inside the boiler and a fiber used to bring the light to the headlight. Any thoughts? Speaking of lights, would it be appropriate to light the old time coaches that make up the Frontiersman set with the Franklin? Did these cars have lanterns or anything in them? If you did add something like this is there any way to reproduce the flickering of a real lantern? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4819	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Reproduction AF Catalogs

DAvid, I don't know what the deal is about the '56 catalog, but they seem to be plentiful today, and in MINT condtion too. Hope you didn't pay too much for it, as they seem to be the most common one around! (this is an entirely unscientific statement, just observation). I love the cover pic! The reproduction of the S period catalogs is a book with many years (46-56?? I don't have the info here), I don't believe any others are out there, except maybe some xerox copies of the '66 flyer. I believe the talking tool shed existed, I've heard of it, but seems to me it was a pre-war item? Hopefully someone else will *know* and post. S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4820	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: 332 headlight

Scott, Hmm, the 332 headlight is usuall pretty good, as it's close to the center of the bulb. Maybe your lense is bad. I have seen them discolor and loose their clarity. Also, reproduction bulbs are notoriously dim! Fiber optics is an interesting idea! BTW, the lense, when installed correctly, acts like a crude fiber optic. I think there was an intent to light the Frontiersman cars, as they have the proper hole in their bottoms. Flickering occures naturally with dirty wheels--no electronics needed!!! I wouldn't worry a lot about "correct period details" on these things anyway, they're really at least O Scale, if not closer to some of the G Gauge scales!! Look at the prototypes sometime, the streamline cars should tower over them, and be longer too. I have yet to see any done w/ lights, should look good, if you put in frosted windows. S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4821	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Flyer mail car track device, and others?

So I bot this red Flyer RRexpress mail car but no button or operator. Tests and works fine. However in anticipation of its use (Pulled by an ATlantic of course!!!!) would guess I needa fabricate about a 8 to 10" long contactor for the truck lever to ride on, maybe using HO brass rail or hobby brass rod, with ends rounded down. Support on ???????? maybe even piece of 1/8" plexi that can slide under track.... If roadbed or on a layout EZ to support, but its temporary now. Then wire a mom. on switch to power it from opposite track. If one wants it to operate, push button as train nears and new mail is picked up and old thrown out same time. No stand or bags either but also EZ to solder up a stand, likewise a fun challenge for the bags.... Yeah but $20 for a pickup stand? And I can make bags of even Bondo with a wire loop for lessen 20c. each... BUT How many budding S folks out there at train shows encounter this kinda 'problem' with various action cars and basically cant solve same??????? Hmmm L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4822	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: 332 headlight

Scott, without seeing it, you may or most likely have a repro boiler front, and the clip assembly with the light socket attached was mounted upside down. Its possible though you have a factory error. In either event, replace the boiler front with one with the clip and lamp assembly correctly installed so the lamp is in the upward position and in front of the lens. It will also help to use a 14V bulb in there as opposed to an 18V. The original equipment I believe calls for a 14V. If thats already the voltage, try a 12V. Its a cast body, and will do no harm if she gets a little warm. Good luck...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4823	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer mail car track device, and others?

Lars, Actually, the contact rail is only about 2 inches long. I don't have one handy to measure. Considering that it sounds like you're using AF track, on a temporary layout, the $20 stand would save you a lot of trouble. It includes the contact rail, clamp for attaching to track and bag post. Now, I'm well-known for being CHEAP! and I'm telling you that the $20 stand is a good deal, unless you have unlimited time and need to keep yourself occupied with "projects" of this nature. Myself, I'd rather be swearing at the T, or running trains, or making another Daylight, or even writing my Thesis!! (now THAT'S desperation!) Now if you're running on a hi-ral layout, and want things to look "realistic", you could easily justify building the whole shebang and having it blend into the scenery, even have a "catch basin" for the bags when they FLY out of the car. S' David D. PS, it is a great accessory!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4824	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Looking for help

I want to thank everyone that responded to my plea for help with my old Flyer engines. I was able to locate a repair shop with in 40 miles that I never knew existed so I will be able to "take" my beloved trains there and not have to trust them to the US Postal service. Thanks again.. "Lets keep those Flyer's running"...Ben

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4825	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: CTT interviews Maddox

Howdy, I suppose you folks have seen the CTT interview of Richard Maddox on the CTT page. (www.kalmbach.com/ctt/lionelnews.html) To summarize: Mr. Maddox is preparing to engage in battle with with his 'O' gauge competition with product improvements, shorter lead time and more offerings. Flyer, on the other hand, is less clear. Quoting the CTT interview: >"...One product line is unlikely to be featured on a television >commercial anytime soon is American Flyer. >"I would love to produce American Flyer product and, as we develop >our offshore production, pehaps that's where we can do it. As you >know, the quantities in American Flyer are no where close to the >quantities we do in Lionel, and the cost of production is prohibitive >in those circumstances. You just can't get enough pieces to make it >profitable," Maddox said." So, don't hold your breath. It's gonna be a while. But that's why we have American Models and S-Helper Service. Be seeing you, -Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4826	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: To spray or not to spray?

Sorry folks but I remember 'WENN'- I used a nice artists flat sable brush (not cheap but last YEARS, if U clean em good), about a #4 or 6, and Floquil to paint all my HO metal stuff. No brush marks. No overspray. No covering of minute details. Prototypical flat finish.... but Maybe one wants Flyer Gloss? Latest S guagian shows a reworked Pacific, painting is next issue. Guess we gotta wait. or If U go to a discount supply store U can pickup an auto touchup gun for about $30, holds maybe 4 to 6 oz???? Sears or Walmart always has decent compressors for about $150 or so adequate for hobby use... The auto paint supply stores will mix anything, to match anything. ANd with lots of plastics used on todays automobiles, much is plastic friendly but test on underside of roof first.... then Get your grandkids old Tonkas out (or new ones) and practice. When U R ready paint that puppy!!!!!!! Hey how bout Thomas the Tank Engine color scheme??? Investment? I'll take stox (unless MIB). Bottom line IMHO whatever the owner likes he does? Enjoy.... Thats what this is all supposed to be about! ? Spray Away!!!!!!!!!!!! L. aint called LarsPaintr for nuttin.... yes this IS a serious post...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4827	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: CTT interviews Maddox

Now that it's apparent that Maddox has been listening to the same marketing bozos that his predecessors did, it's time to reflect a bit. It's ironic that Lionel has manufactured AF for 20 years which is approximately the same time span that A.C.Gilbert made AF. Lionel has produced a bigger variety of road names on certain locomotives and rolling stock than Gilbert did, with some notable exceptions: Steam, operating accessories and the biggest one of all, train sets. During the 20 years of no train sets particularly entry-level sets, the name recognition of AF has waned a bit. Our scale has been hurt by this. In short, in 1979 they had a real chance to breath fire into the s-scale market, but in a word: They blew it!. But all is not lost yet. Don T. reported that he saw a growing market for folks who remembered their fathers and grandfather's AF when they were small. I wish I could wish Mr. Maddox success, but "There they go again". I agree that we must support the efforts of AM, SHS, etc. and fight on without Lionel. Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4828	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: CTT interviews Maddox

Amen, Roy Even though I'm primarily a Scale Guy, a heathy American Flyer means a healthy scale contingent. Oh, well. -Rich G. rhoffman@... wrote: > > Now that it's apparent that Maddox has been listening to the same marketing > bozos that his predecessors did, it's time to reflect a bit. It's ironic > that Lionel has manufactured AF for 20 years which is approximately the same > time span that A.C.Gilbert made AF. Lionel has produced a bigger variety of > road names on certain locomotives and rolling stock than Gilbert did, with > some notable exceptions: Steam, operating accessories and the biggest one of > all, train sets. During the 20 years of no train sets particularly > entry-level sets, the name recognition of AF has waned a bit. Our scale has > been hurt by this. In short, in 1979 they had a real chance to breath fire > into the s-scale market, but in a word: They blew it!. But all is not lost > yet. Don T. reported that he saw a growing market for folks who remembered > their fathers and grandfather's AF when they were small. I wish I could wish > Mr. Maddox success, but "There they go again". > I agree that we must support the efforts of AM, SHS, etc. and fight on > without Lionel. > > Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4829	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: To spray or not to spray?

I've had good luck with brushes as you describe. I've also had excellent luck with Testors spray cans. I also own a cheap air brush which is great for most jobs because 1) I can use any color I want rather than what's available in spray cans, and 2) for painting a piece of rolling stock or structure the cheap one is fine- you just need good even coverage, no fancy effects. Painting with flat and then using transfer lettering works fine. Using decals is a little tricky. I try to get a gloss finish for the decal to adhere to, then use solcaset, then overspray with dullcote to get the flat finish and the decal film is invisible. This gave excellent results on my Des Plaines container cars. I have no hesitation to paint a less than prime piece of non-rare Flyer (not really rare valuable stuff) if it looks like it needs it. A dinged up over the hill 290 Pacific was my last project. Now it runs, reverses and smokes great. It sports a 312 tender and is dry transfer lettered for my CVL (Chemung Valley Lines) with a nice new Testors flat black paint job and looks great on the layout. The tender fits my story that the CVL is owned by the PRR. Now I'm looking critically at my very scratched Royal Blue. LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Sorry folks but I remember 'WENN'- > I used a nice artists flat sable brush (not cheap but last YEARS, if U clean > em good), about a #4 or 6, and Floquil to paint all my HO metal stuff. No > brush marks. No overspray. No covering of minute details. Prototypical flat > finish.... > but > Maybe one wants Flyer Gloss? Latest S guagian shows a reworked Pacific, > painting is next issue. Guess we gotta wait. > or > If U go to a discount supply store U can pickup an auto touchup gun for about > $30, holds maybe 4 to 6 oz???? Sears or Walmart always has decent > compressors for about $150 or so adequate for hobby use... The auto paint > supply stores will mix anything, to match anything. ANd with lots of > plastics used on todays automobiles, much is plastic friendly but test on > underside of roof first.... > then > Get your grandkids old Tonkas out (or new ones) and practice. When U R ready > paint that puppy!!!!!!! Hey how bout Thomas the Tank Engine color scheme??? > Investment? > I'll take stox (unless MIB). Bottom line IMHO whatever the owner likes he > does? Enjoy.... Thats what this is all supposed to be about! ? > Spray Away!!!!!!!!!!!! > L. > aint called LarsPaintr for nuttin.... > yes this IS a serious post... > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Congratulations to MSers_Online. Our latest ONElist of the Week. > For full story and to submit yours, go to > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/ootw25 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4830	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: CTT interviews Maddox

Rich, I'm a scaler, too. AF is not only our roots, but I agree that we scalers owe a lot to the AF and highrail market for the selection of products that we have today and will have tomorrow. Once again, no thanks to Lionel. Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4831	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer mail car track device, and others?

Look at Paul Yorke's web site http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/feature/actuator.htm for a picture of my homemade mail car actuator. I started by copying the AF dimensions from a friend's unit and then tweaked it a bit (closer to the track and closer to the end of the actuator rail) 'til I liked the performance. David Dewey wrote: > > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Lars, > Actually, the contact rail is only about 2 inches long. I don't have one > handy to measure. Considering that it sounds like you're using AF track, on > a temporary layout, the $20 stand would save you a lot of trouble. It > includes the contact rail, clamp for attaching to track and bag post. Now, > I'm well-known for being CHEAP! and I'm telling you that the $20 stand is a > good deal, unless you have unlimited time and need to keep yourself occupied > with "projects" of this nature. Myself, I'd rather be swearing at the T, or > running trains, or making another Daylight, or even writing my Thesis!! (now > THAT'S desperation!) > Now if you're running on a hi-ral layout, and want things to look > "realistic", you could easily justify building the whole shebang and having > it blend into the scenery, even have a "catch basin" for the bags when they > FLY out of the car. > S' > David D. > PS, it is a great accessory!! > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to online communities. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4832	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: digest Number 362

Nope. I disagree. We are dealing with mass produced toys. How can they have "uniqueness"? Their most important value is play value, not "investment value". If you think of toy trains as an investment vehicle you have missed the point of the hobby entirely. Whatever value a Flyer item may command is due to the fact that many people want it because it is fun to own, display, look at, handle, maintain, and operate. "Fraud" is much too strong a term to apply to selling or buying a partly restored train, because toy trains should never be thought of as investment vehicles. A toy train is worth exactly what you can get for it at any given time, no more, no less. There is no market price or objective financial value involved. The value involved here is personal -- sentimental connections to childhood play and dreams, and to family members and friends, places and institutions that are no longer with us. It is much more fun to own a good looking piece. Just as no one wants a shabby-looking car, few people want a shabby-looking train. People collect trains, not the scratches on them. A professional restoration DOES increase the value of a damaged piece because it makes it more fun to own, AND FUN IS THE POINT OF THIS GAME, NOT "MARKET VALUE." The concern that if all the junkers were restored then the market would be depressed is both selfish and foolish. If all the junkers were restored, more people would be having more fun. Lumping all collectibles together is another mistake: 1. Toy trains have almost no serious historical significance. A.C. Gilbert was not Julius Caesar. He did not conquer the known world. He did not invent the first airplane. He merely garnered a share of the post WW II toy boom. Toy trains should not be subject to the same terms of exchange as serious historical artifacts. I accept that forging Abraham Lincoln's signature would be fraud. I do not accept that selling a touched up 21139 would be. 2. There are several different types of collectibles. Some are"passive collectibles" such as stamps, coins, fine art, or ming vases. They can only be stored or displayed. Others are "active collectibles". These have another dimension. They can be operated, driven, flown, listened to or otherwise enjoyed in an active fashion. Repair and maintenance of these items must be acceptable since they are subject to wear and tear in the course of ownership. The highest form of devotion to the hobby is not policing originality and accusing people of fraud. Rather, it is taking the time and trouble, in this age of "better living thru chemistry", of floor waxes that don't shine and non-stick pans that don't non-stick, to learn to garner, duplicate and restore the materials and finishes of fifty years ago so that the items we all love can continue to exist in close to their original condition. I am sick and tired of "serious collectors" who attempt to distort a fun hobby into a high-stakes financial competition. This kind of attitude is more appropriate to the wars of Wall Street than to the toys from Erector Square. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4833	From: Richard	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Flyer..what's new??

Train affeccienados This is not to be imflammatory...I am actually curious... What constitutes new for those who are Flyer fans...if Lyingel trot out some old piece give it a lick and a promise ( maybe a new "Collectors" paint scheme) ..is that NEW..or is it as it would be to me ...a newly tooled piece of equipment...different!! I thinks the ol Lyingel are perpetrating the oldest trick in the book....keep your friends close..and your enemy even closer!!...by that I mean as percieved competitiion for its "O" lines Lyingel bought up the Flyer line (for a relative song, I believe) and keeps it locked away...it will ...keep it pretty much locked away..its a little cash-calf ( not big enough for a cow) paint it up ship it out. Waiting for Lyinel to come out with the goods...is like when an ol flame tell ya she loves you no more and has a new beau...you want her to change her mind and come back...but her heart is else- where. Lyingel's heart has always been with that 3-rail "O" stuff...it just had a fling, an afffair of sorts with the 1:64 crowd. It knows where its bread is buttered. More power to any concerns such as SHS & AM. Guys ...SHE ( lyingel) doesn't love you no more...it would be no more obvious if plasterd across the front of a MACK truck doing 60, heading straight for you. But seriously ...what is new?? >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4834	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Talking Toolshed

In a message dated 9/8/99 9:12:07 AM, David_Horn@... writes: << Is this for real? I could not find it my Greenberg volumes, price guides, etc. >> This accessory is the No. 595 a-Koostikin talking tool shed from 1941. The 595 has yellow walls with brown trim and a green roof. Except for the base, the stampings are those for the 585 that we all know and love. The 595 operates in the same general fashion as both the prewar and postwar talking Mystic station. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4835	From: John Foley	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail

>Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:33:38 -0700 >To: S-Scale >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: 3rd Rail > >>Delivered-To: foley164@... >>X-Sender: foley164@... >>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) >>Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 10:46:37 -0700 >>To: foley164@... >> >>Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 06:27:14 -0700 >>To: John Foley <foley164@...> >>From: Scott Mann <sdmann@...> >>Subject: S Scale offerings > > Hi Folks > I thought I'd share this with you. I hope this turns around. >But if not maybe someday. > John > >> >>Dear John, >> >>I am sorry to say that the response to our ads for the Pioneer Zephyr in S >>Gaugian and Classic Toy Trains were less than expected. We have only 90 >>reservations to date, not enough to support a 300 set production. I think >>if nothing changes in the next 2 months we are not going to produce for S >>scale, it is too small a market. Your thoughts are welcome. >> >>Scott Mann >>Sunset Models and 3rd Rail >>The Leader in Brass for O Scale >>http://www.3rdrail.com >>sdmann@... >> >> >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4836	From: lifetalk.radio@cwix.com	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Trains are Fun

Thanks Bro. Jarcho for your'sermon' on model trains as primarily toys and fun. Since re-entering the toy train part of model railroading I have found it tempting to fall into the trap of thinking about American Flyer equipment as icons. I try and collect and operate the best condition I can afford, but ultimately I want to use them. I had to rethink all of this when I recently acquired a 719 tilt coal car in E+ condition. Wasn't sure if I should load it up with coal and operate. Play won out over shelf space. Dwight

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4837	From: The Reis's	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: Re: Reproduction AF Catalogs

The Book of catalogueswas put out by Greenberg in 1990 and has reprints of the 1946-1955 catalogues. It sold for about $100. Dan Olson here in seattle still sells catalogues and has a lot of them. He had a small listing of them a couple years ago which was an insert in Ron Leventons catalog. I guess he never sold this stuff to Ron. Anyway I don't know if he ever had any reprinted but I have seen reprints of the Flyer catalogs from the 20's and 30's so It's easily possible expecially with the new computer equipment Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Dewey <djdewey@...> To: <David_Horn@...>; <S-Trains@onelist.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 8:52 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Reproduction AF Catalogs > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > DAvid, > I don't know what the deal is about the '56 catalog, but they seem to be > plentiful today, and in MINT condtion too. Hope you didn't pay too much for > it, as they seem to be the most common one around! (this is an entirely > unscientific statement, just observation). I love the cover pic! > The reproduction of the S period catalogs is a book with many years > (46-56?? I don't have the info here), I don't believe any others are out > there, except maybe some xerox copies of the '66 flyer. > I believe the talking tool shed existed, I've heard of it, but seems to > me it was a pre-war item? > Hopefully someone else will *know* and post. > S > David D. > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4838	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: St. Louis meet?????

Looking for info about an apparent S gauge meet in St. Louis area next month , possibly the Chicago S Gaugers moving theirs to spread the effort.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4839	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: '56 Catalog

Thanks for the replies. It turns out mine is an original. I also found TrainCity has 160 of them in mint condition for $12 a piece. I paid $15.50. No matter the price, this is a fun piece to leaf through. TrainCity also posted a note that he is done with train shows after 8 years. Now it's strictly the cyber-marketplace for him. Hmmmmm. PS What does the acronym IMHO stand for? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4840	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: actuator

Thanks for the idea and photos. I modified a Flyer contact rail section to work on the inside of curves. It works fine, requiring only that tabs on the action cars be bent downward slightly (the height of the contact rail had to be shortened a little to accomodate long flat cars like the 936), but your HO track on screws would have been even easier.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4841	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Train City

http://www.traincity.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4842	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 363

Tom, Your summary of toy trains without uniqueness or investment value or lack of fraud when misrepresenting condition or refinishing because the item is not a political government historical article was nice, but thankfully, it is based only on your opinion and not on the laws of economics or the laws of the land. Any item that sold for $4.95 that will fetch more than that is/was an investment, not only in play pleasure but financial return. I agree with you that a beat up item restored to original is nice, but because of history (precedence) and law of the land, it can not be represented as an original condition item but must be labled as refinished. Like it or not, everything in our society is based on money and it's value and it is not going to change as long as socialism and communism keep failing miserably on a worldwide basis. Send me all your new or like new, unrefinished items and I'll send you nicked and scratched stuff on a twofer basis. Charles Day --------------- > Tom Jarco says, We are dealing with mass produced toys. How can they have "uniqueness"? Their most important value is play value, not "investment value". If you think of toy trains as an investment vehicle you have missed the point of the hobby entirely. Whatever value a Flyer item may command is due to the fact that many people want it because it is fun to own, display, look at, handle, maintain, and operate. "Fraud" is much too strong a term to apply to selling or buying a partly restored train, because toy trains should never be thought of as investment vehicles. A toy train is worth exactly what you can get for it at any given time, no more, no less. There is no market price or objective financial value involved. The value involved here is personal -- sentimental connections to childhood play and dreams, and to family members and friends, places and institutions that are no longer with us. It is much more fun to own a good looking piece. Just as no one wants a shabby-looking car, few people want a shabby-looking train. People collect trains, not the scratches on them. A professional restoration DOES increase the value of a damaged piece because it makes it more fun to own, AND FUN IS THE POINT OF THIS GAME, NOT "MARKET VALUE." The concern that if all the junkers were restored then the market would be depressed is both selfish and foolish. If all the junkers were restored, more people would be having more fun. Lumping all collectibles together is another mistake: 1. Toy trains have almost no serious historical significance. A.C. Gilbert was not Julius Caesar. He did not conquer the known world. He did not invent the first airplane. He merely garnered a share of the post WW II toy boom. Toy trains should not be subject to the same terms of exchange as serious historical artifacts. I accept that forging Abraham Lincoln's signature would be fraud. I do not accept that selling a touched up 21139 would be. 2. There are several different types of collectibles. Some are"passive collectibles" such as stamps, coins, fine art, or ming vases. They can only be stored or displayed. Others are "active collectibles". These have another dimension. They can be operated, driven, flown, listened to or otherwise enjoyed in an active fashion. Repair and maintenance of these items must be acceptable since they are subject to wear and tear in the course of ownership. The highest form of devotion to the hobby is not policing originality and accusing people of fraud. Rather, it is taking the time and trouble, in this age of "better living thru chemistry", of floor waxes that don't shine and non-stick pans that don't non-stick, to learn to garner, duplicate and restore the materials and finishes of fifty years ago so that the items we all love can continue to exist in close to their original condition. I am sick and tired of "serious collectors" who attempt to distort a fun hobby into a high-stakes financial competition. This kind of attitude is more appropriate to the wars of Wall Street than to the toys from Erector Square. Tom Jarcho __________________________________________________________________________ <

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4843	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: To spray or not to spray?

- Greeting`S' - I have been enjoying the upbeat comments of Lars and Charles regarding the hobby. A bit of good luck came my way Saturday at an amateur radio operators' flea market (Hamfest). In the hardware corner I came across two small diaphragm air compressors, one by Thomas and one by Gast. Bought the Thomas oiless compressor for the huge sum of $30 to use with the air brush at home. Yes, the compressors were removed from other equipment but were quite clean. Cheer`S' Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4844	From: JTMGoBlue@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: MESA

Greetings, Does anyone have an address and contact for this organization? My bank ****ed up and returned a check I had written in St. Paul and I need to contact them. Thanks, Terry MacEwen

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4845	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: York Badges

Fellow Brethren (and Sisteren) of the Miniature Rails: To all toytrains@egroups subscribers who are attending York as TCA members or who will attend York as guests: Your ID badges are ready. These badges will identify you in the crowd as a contributor (or lurker) at the TCA mail list. They will be especially useful at breakfast for linking names and faces. Simply go to the address specified, let the page load completely, then print it. You can cut out your badge with a scissoric pair and mount it in a plastic badgeholder. You must have one of those left over from a business conference or bowling tournament. Then . . . wear it proudly and show everyone that you are one of the brave souls conquering the mysteries of the information superhighway and spending 5 or 10 hours a week staring at a TV screen only a foot in front of your eyes. Here is the address: http://s-gauge.homepage.com/ You see, David Dewey was right. Tick-Tock, your future was in "S"! Enjoy, Chris Zizzo P.S.- Anybody talk with Frank Razzagone about his now world famous BBQ? P.P.S.- This is cross-posted to the S-trains list to catch any TCA stragglers who have not checked in to the toytrains list in a while. It might be fun to make a badge for S list members, too. With a TCA badge, a toytrains list badge, a highrail S-badge, a scale badge, a Proto-64 badge, and an Alps Decal group badge, I'll look like Chevy Chase's car window in a remake of National Lampoon's "The Griswold's York Vacation"! Maybe we don't need any stinking badges! But it would put names to faces. Who on the S-trains list plans to go to York? CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4846	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: LarsMail

Gee Lars: I don't know where you live and what your local trainshows are like, but I see those mail cars and their accessories in abundance. Ok, the mail bags get lost, but there are several choices for repros. As for the pick-up with mail stanchion, they are around on tables at every show. If you want to fabricate just the stanchion, the plain clip-on action car pick-up will work fine. Any flyer action car button will operate it. All still are in abundant supply. As to the 1956 catalogs, there is a dealer who shows at York who uncovered several sealed boxes of these catalogs a couple years ago and has been flooding the market ever since. Last year he also had a few more fresh cartons of 1957 and one other late 50's year (I forget which). Interesting to see them new. Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4847	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: digest Number 362

Point-Counterpoint :)) In a message dated 9/8/99 5:52:41 PM, jarcho@... writes: << We are dealing with mass produced toys. How can they have "uniqueness"? Their most important value is play value, not "investment value". If you think of toy trains as an investment vehicle you have missed the point of the hobby entirely. Whatever value a Flyer item may command is due to the fact that many people want it because it is fun to own, display, look at, handle, maintain, and operate. "Fraud" is much too strong a term to apply to selling or buying a partly restored train, because toy trains should never be thought of as investment vehicles. >> A genuine truism is "Buy the train because you like it, not because of some imagined financial gain." However, in the area of restoration, repainting a piece and, then, later misrepresenting that to a subsequent buyer is fraud. The law says so. A professionally restored piece usually does not become more valuable as a collectible than TCA vg. <<A toy train is worth exactly what you can get for it at any given time, no more, no less. There is no market price or objective financial value involved. The value involved here is personal -- sentimental connections to childhood play and dreams, and to family members and friends, places and institutions that are no longer with us. >> Nominally, this is true. But whatever the origins of desire and demand for a fixed number of pieces, supply and demand does tend to determine a price range in the marketplace for a given piece (There is a marketplace 'cause Adam Smith tells me so. :)) ) As in most all collecting, it's 'condition, condition, and condition' that pegs a rough parity for a given piece. <<Lumping all collectibles together is another mistake: 1. Toy trains have almost no serious historical significance. A.C. Gilbert was not Julius Caesar. He did not conquer the known world. He did not invent the first airplane. He merely garnered a share of the post WW II toy boom. Toy trains should not be subject to the same terms of exchange as serious historical artifacts. I accept that forging Abraham Lincoln's signature would be fraud. I do not accept that selling a touched up 21139 would be. >> A rather subjective view. You may wish to contact the good folk at the Whitney Museum and register their reaction to this comment. Many who are interested in the trains will also be interested in their history, the variations, who made them, when, etc. And who is to say what is a 'serious' historical artifact? Archeologists do interest themselves in the variations of such (originally) common items as bowls to piece together how people lived in another time. Gee, I know several folk who would rather have a 1946 Northern than Abraham Lincoln's signature. << 2. There are several different types of collectibles. Some are "passive collectibles" such as stamps, coins, fine art, or ming vases. They can only be stored or displayed. Others are "active collectibles". These have another dimension. They can be operated, driven, flown, listened to or otherwise enjoyed in an active fashion. Repair and maintenance of these items must be acceptable since they are subject to wear and tear in the course of ownership. >> All collectibles do ultimately establish a trading range based on rarity, desirability, and condition. So one can almost lump them together from the standpoint of economics. <<The highest form of devotion to the hobby is not policing originality and accusing people of fraud. Rather, it is taking the time and trouble, in this age of "better living thru chemistry", of floor waxes that don't shine and non-stick pans that don't non-stick, to learn to garner, duplicate and restore the materials and finishes of fifty years ago so that the items we all love can continue to exist in close to their original condition. >> Both the proper restoration of tired pieces AND the paying of honor to the history of the artifacts are valid devotions to the hobby (I personally practice both.). They are not mutually exclusive. Again, a restoration is a restoration, and needs to be represented as such. <<I am sick and tired of "serious collectors" who attempt to distort a fun hobby into a high-stakes financial competition. This kind of attitude is more appropriate to the wars of Wall Street than to the toys from Erector Square. Tom Jarcho >> I agree that their are those with less than healthy motives behind their collecting. Unfortunately, when the market has a large number of people chasing a limited number of items (in some instances, quite scarce items) the law of supply and demand does apply. That's life, as well as ECO 101. Intended in good fun. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4848	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer..what's new??

Hmm Well, if big L would produce a steamlline mail car, w/ mail pickup--THAT would be new! Yep, ACG never made it, but it could use existing ACG designs. Hmm, you could even do it w/the combo car. If Big L produced an E unit body for the Alco chassis, THAT would be new, even though it's only a shell over existing stuff. If they updated the Alco power chassis with some fairly simple changes, THAT would be new, and better! But enough pipe dreaming, apparently, it ain't gonna happen, they're too busy trying to save their O market, as long as they own the AF & Gilbert name, they figure that's one more market they don't have to worry about. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4849	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: Trains are Fun

Well, Tom and I sometimes disagree, and that's fun! You can't discount the fact that toys are a part of history. Historians look at toys of the past to better understand the society of the time. While AF is really recent past, it is still historic. I enjoy running my trains, but I also have a few I don't run, as they are NIB. By preserving these NIB, I can allow some future generation to see what they looked like, how they were packaged, by the factory. That has validity too, just as much as running them does. And I'll admit, my NIB stuff was accidental, I didn't go looking for it! And in many ways, I hope I don't find more of it!!! Also, I have enough running stuff, there is no need to operate the NIB stuff--hmm does anyone ever have enough running stuff??? (theoretical question!) Are they financial investments? Well, yes, they are bought and sold, and on an open market. Are they a good investment?? Hmm, that's a tough one. Right now prices are fairly good, but who knows what they'll be like in twenty years, they're not a "blue chip stock" with a long history, nor are they a necessity (in spite of what we tell our spouses!). Remember Avon bottles? At one time they were "hot" now they're not! I suspect that Tom, like I, dislike the "financial gain" side of toy trains, we long for the days when they were just Old Toys, and could be found in yard sales, thrift shops, etc. for very reasonable prices. On the other hand, I have been known to buy bits and pieces of L stuff, clean it up, and resell it to help support my S hobby. Does that make me a part of the inflated value game?? Probably, though my little part seems awfully small (think I repaired a dozen locos for others last year). But each part adds to the whole. No quick an easy answers! RATS!!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4850	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: St. Louis meet?????

In a message dated 9/9/99 7:19:43 AM, ironhors@... writes: << Looking for info about an apparent S gauge meet in St. Louis area next month , possibly the Chicago S Gaugers moving theirs to spread the effort. >> I believe you have "S-Fest" in mind, which will take place in St. Louis on October 29-31. They can be found at www.fallsfest.cjb.net . RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4851	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Jarcho's Sermon on the Track

Amen! Whenever I tell someone that I am into trains, they respond with: "Really? They're worth a lot of money, aren't they?" Then, before I can answer, the person launches into a reminiscence: "I had trains when I was a kid. A big black engine . . . it was heavy . . . Lionel I think. The little pellets made the smoke, the people were lit up in the windows, the whistle, the accessories . . ." and on and on. Never a mention of money in that memory. All they remember is the fun, the hours lying on the floor watching that smoky, noisy train going round and round as they wore out the whistle button. The amazing thing is that kids who had a 19 dollar starter set and those who had two premium sets, seem to have the same memories. Money means nothing to kids. I didn't get into this hobby to buy and sell trains. Well, that's a half truth. I certainly did intend to buy them! I got into this to keep alive that part of me that that did a dance when the new Flyer catalog came out. When I was a child, I acted as a child. When I became a man, I put aside childish things . . . except my trains. For me trains are a window into my past. They travel between my adult life and my childhood and keep the sense of awe and wonder alive in the man. Those who trade in them, as brokers trade in commodities, miss the whole point. They can no longer see how big and heavy and real those locomotives are. They have instead become a "Mint 332" or a "VG 360-361". I never referred to my trains by number. I never wanted to apply the same dull jaded adult viewpoint to my trains as I might to everything else. I needed those trains to remain separate and special. My engines have been maintained in running order, some for 50 years. My railroad is still acquiring new equipment (and that will never stop as long as I am CEO.) New stuff runs with old and is welcome on the home rails as long as it all keeps the spirit alive. Someday, in the future, it will all have to be liquidated, but by then, those trains will have accomplished their main goal, which was to take me to heaven. Sale of the remains will be conducted by others. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4852	From: michael prell	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Cow On Track Control

At a recent trip back home to Syracuse I had the good fortune of re-discovering a prize that I thought to be lost forever, namely my good old Cow On The Track AFcessory that an old girlfriend of mine gave me when I turned 17. I'm 53 now, haven't seen the girl in about 30 or so years, but the cow still works and looks to be in fine shape. The only problem is that I no longer have the two button control box that came with it. I thought about using an Atles switch, but I'd reallr rather have an original Flyer box. Are there any out there, and who's got them? Gotta get old Girt bach on "the track" where she belongs. Thanks. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4853	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: Cow On Track Control

In case you want to run the accessory and don't have luck finding the right control you shoud be able to use any 2 single buttons. Wire one side of each to the common lead. Wire the other side one button to the out position. Wire other side of the 2nd button to the in function. If you need to have the authentic button then forget this. Incidentally, that accessory is my 2 year old grandson's favorite, with the mail pickup and rocket car tied for second. michael prell wrote: > > From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > > At a recent trip back home to Syracuse I had the good fortune of > re-discovering a prize that I thought to be lost forever, namely my > good old Cow On The Track AFcessory that an old girlfriend of mine gave > me when I turned 17. I'm 53 now, haven't seen the girl in about 30 or > so years, but the cow still works and looks to be in fine shape. The > only problem is that I no longer have the two button control box that > came with it. I thought about using an Atles switch, but I'd reallr > rather have an original Flyer box. Are there any out there, and who's > got them? Gotta get old Girt bach on "the track" where she belongs. Thanks. > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist now has T-SHIRTS! > For details and to order, go to: > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/tshirt1 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4854	From: Tom Walker	Date: 9/8/1999
Subject: AF loco whistle

Hi I have been playing with a AF 326 loco air chime whistle unit. The original speaker seems to be ok and the cap tests at 100mf. The sound is a low frequency hum. I would like a higher frequency sound like a whistle. I have tried a 8 ohn speaker and a 100uf cap but it didn't sound like a higher frequency whistle. I think both the air chime generators are working ok, they hum ok. I have follower the instructions from the K-line book and still only get a low frequency hum. Can anyone point me to the right values to try, or how to test the air chime units. Thanks Cobbler

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4855	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: S-SCALE & 3rd RAIL

3rd Rail, Sunset Models ran a half page ad in the S Gaugian this month for their Zephyr. The picture should make all S Gaugers run out and order one. This may result in more sales for them. They should have run the same ad in some of the mainline model railroading magazines also. Perhaps they did. You are the NASG. The NASG B.O.T. is looking into more ways to promote the hobby. Some of us have given up our personal time to work on promoting the hobby. I would like to have more time to pursue the hobby. Staying on NASG track, Glenn In a message dated Wed, 08 Sep 1999 Ed Loizeaux wrote My thought is that the Pioneer Zephyr was the wrong model and that there is nothing "too small" about S scale/gauge. Why not make something that some of us actually want....Ed L. From: Rich Gajnak <rich.gajnak@...> I'm not quite sure that the Pioneer Zephyr was the wrong model. I for one would love to have an 'S' Pioneer Zephyr. After all, the prototype was recently refubished and placed in a new indoor display at Chicago's Museum of Science and Industry. Alex Binkley wrote: The question is how do you get any consensus from this group and what to do about all of them who aren't online. From: Ed & Judi Loizeaux <loizeaux@...> NASG could, if it so chose, provide a valuable service in this area. Ed L

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4856	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: Cancelled products

When we helped market the American Models 4-6-2 steam engine, we had over 300 reservations, at the same time we helped Jettie with his brass 2-8-0 project and had only 30. To me, the big difference was not the cost, but the lack of smoke, choo choo, bell, whistle as well as a track record with AF compatible items. I think that most people that model using the code 110 wheels, are pretty much prototype specific. I think the Pioneer Zephyr is a neat model, but I did not order one for myself. On the other hand, I did order a heavy USRA Mike, as my favorite railroad had ten, I ordered a GP-30 as 3 railroads I liked had them (If only I knew which scheme to have it painted), I have both American Models steamers, Jetties 2-8-0 are nice, but I am not a UP or SP fan. To attract the American Flyer enthusiast, you have to offer a product that features things they insist on when they purchase their AF trains. If given a choice between the 310, 312 or 314 AW PRR K-5 pacific, which do you think they would want? Likewise, our products have to attract the broadest range of S gaugers to be successful. The days of offering products that are not wanted or accepted by a large correction of our market are pretty much over in "S". If you look over the last decade of "S", we have a greater variety of products than ever before. We hear from new people interested in "S" everyday. But, the competition for there interest greater now due to the abundance of product. I think the amount of money per year invested by active "S" gaugers is actually increasing as well as the number of active "S" gaugers. What has changed in the number of new products. Right now, S gaugers have reservations or are thinking of purchasing lots of products: Southwind has offered for future sale: PRR/B&O 2-8-0's, SP 4-4-2's, several passenger cars, a B&O caboose and several other products, River Raisin has a Berkshire and neat looking truss bridge, American Models has announced a PRR streamline K-4, SD-60, F-7B unit and a GT wooden caboose in a bunch or roadnames, Billy Lanes PRR X-29 40' boxcar in a bunch of variations, 3rd rail still has a 2-8-2 USRA light & heavy Mike out there, We (SHS) have deposits on F-3 A&B sets, the next run of SW-9's as well as turnouts. and Ron Sebastian has all of us saving our pennies for double door FMC boxcars, the next run of 3 bay open top hoppers, Gundersons with several lengths and type of containers, a coal porter and his recently received 10,000 gal. tank cars. Look at all of that stuff, we are talking about several million dollars of product here. It is not that there are not enough S gaugers, but that each new product must be thought out and marketed very carefully to be successful. We know, and I wish I had thought out a few of our products a little more carefully. Don T. Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4857	From: Scott Brown	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 362

Thanks to all who responded to my question about the AM GG-1. Everyone seemed to really enjoy theirs. The only possibly negative aspect seemed to be that it takes a bit more space on the curves. That said, I can't wait to buy one. Scott Brown sbrown56@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4858	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: comments on comments, digest#362

My last postings led to some extreme comments that just have to be questioned and commented on: "Like it or not, everything in our society is based on money and it's value" "Any item that sold for $4.95 that will fetch more than that is/was an investment, not only in play pleasure but financial return." "Let me ask you, would you rather have an original wrinkled one hundred dollar bill or a crisp counterfit? " Money is the means by which society exchanges goods and services. Period. A toy is something you buy and play with. There is a big difference between money and toys. In fact they are almost opposites. And "collecting" Flyer trains is a form of playing with toys. Nothing else. Buying a toy train is like buying a movie ticket. it is an investment in fun. A toy train's resale value is and should be, unpredictable, imaginary, arbitrary,and highly dependent on circumstances of purchase and sale. Attempting to impose a set of rules on the situation will not change the reality of same and may create a worse situation. Calling a partly restored piece a forgery is foolish. Very few toy trains make it through life without being altered. Many if not most Flyer locos will not run well unless the brush springs and various other parts are replaced. Even mint boxed sets decay, and most boxed sets have been "upgraded" with a few better quality pieces and boxes. The only way a piece can be absolutely guaranteed original is if the original owner sells it to you and states that he has not altered it in some way. This does not happen often and is not reliable. There is no other way to guarantee originality. To me a forgery would be a train not manufactured at Erector Square. Even that rule is iffy. In fact, I have a few boxed pieces that I bought at Jerry's on 23rd st. while the Gilbert factory was shutting down, and there's no way to know if they were assembled in New Haven or in Jerry's back room! I have a reasonably large amount of trains, There is no way I could state with certainty that a piece is all original, nor could I remember what changes I made. A few items I can remember because the restoration involved something unusually demanding. Close examination would reveal more, but to be sure, each item would have to be totally disassembled. This would take months. Hey, I've got some nice trains here. If I wanted to sell them, and I could find someone who wanted to buy them, they might be tempted to pay a nice price. Would I be cheating them? I don't think so. They look great. They all run well in both directions, and the reverse units and sound devices work. They couple and uncouple and light up. All the window strips are in place. All the accessories operate. Any play damage and decay have been strictly, sternly, and skillfully dealt with and my very large stock of parts has allowed me to replace any defective ones. A few trains even had factory defects that I repaired. Most important, they've brought joy to three generations so far. Does the fact that I worked on some of them mean I now have to "degrade" the status of all of them to "operator pieces"? I refuse to accept that. All that work and vigilance should be reflected in their value. Why should I have been forced to spend time keeping elaborate records of each repair in case a "serious collector" (that's an oxymoron) might want to purchase something? Sorry, I've been too busy having a life, and shouldn't be penalized for it. Finally: "You may wish to contact the good folk at the Whitney Museum and register their reaction to this comment. " The Whitney Museum is in greater New Haven, where AC Gilbert was at one time an important employer. Like most Northeastern US cities, New Haven has been very hard hit by the export of jobs and the resultant crime, drug, and other social problems, although things are looking up a little now. My little niece there had been to over 20 funerals of her friends and classmates before she graduated from high school a few years ago. Just as Flyer trains have meaning to us personally as a link to better days gone by, the Whitney exhibit is a way for New Haven to look back to better days and try to figure out what hit them. No doubt there are museum displays devoted to owl pellets and the fascinating and important science of scatology. Does that mean that owl feces is now a valuable historical collector's item? Is it a good investment? And most important, is it original? The point here is that toy trains are bought and sold because they are fun -- the toy train situation is too complicated to be controlled by rules about originality in an attempt to protect some mythical value. It just won't work unless we have police, lawyers, and laboratories, and who wants that? Not most of us. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4859	From: Scott Brown	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Alco PA Problem

I have a new can motor alco PA that gives me fits. It seems that the spring loaded contact on the rear motor (the part that rides on the rail) slips off the the top of the rail and down the side when it takes the corners. This just started happening. It worked fine on my old layout. Then we moved 2 weeks ago and now on my new (and greatly improved) layout I have this problem on a regular basis. It doesn't happen every time. I've checked the track and don't see anything obvious. Any ideas ? Scott Brown sbrown56@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4860	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Re: Alco PA Problem

I assume you're talking about a Lionel built PA. Mine gave me some fits on a couple of spots. I can't remember if it finally wore in or I had to smooth the shoe with a file. For a while it was so bad I ran the power unit in the rear of the diesels. The track may also have a snag, which sounds more likely after relaying. Run your finber over all the joints near where it happens and let us know how you make out. BTW, this is one of the reasons I prefer AM PAs with all-wheel pickup, but I must admit the Lionel will pull a ton- and fast. Scott Brown wrote: > > From: Scott Brown <sbrown56@...> > > I have a new can motor alco PA that gives me fits. It seems > that the spring loaded contact on the rear motor (the part > that rides on the rail) slips off the the top of the rail > and down the side when it takes the corners. This just > started happening. It worked fine on my old layout. Then we > moved 2 weeks ago and now on my new (and greatly improved) > layout I have this problem on a regular basis. It doesn't > happen every time. I've checked the track and don't see > anything obvious. Any ideas ? > > Scott Brown > sbrown56@... > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > How would you like to have a voice in the marketplace and be > rewarded for it? SurveySpot members earn cash and prizes for > taking part in market research studies! > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/surveyspot1 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4861	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/9/1999
Subject: Sequencing Relays?

Can anyone recommend a model railroading book that could teach me about how to build and use "sequencing relays" on TWO-rail model train layouts? -=[ Brian ]=- ________________________________________________________ Old Cowboy Insight: If you're ridin' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then to make sure it's still there with ya. ________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4862	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: St. Louis meet?????

Hi Folks, On Thu, 09 Sep 1999 <ironhors@...> wrote: >Looking for info about an apparent S gauge meet in St. Louis area next >month , possibly the Chicago S Gaugers moving theirs to spread the >effort. The website for the the St. Louis area meet is: http://www.angelfire.com/mo/FallSFest/ You can find it in the Events Column on the NASG page: http://trainweb.com/nasg Hope this helps, Craig S. O'Connell NASG Website Director

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4863	From: Neimanis,V. [NCR]	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Subject: comments on comments, digest#362

Though I am an avid Flyer collector and operator and have much enthusiasm for perfection but we must not lose sight of the obvious. American Flyer model trains no matter how nice are really a recreational pursuit, originally built as toys for kids. Is the adage appropriate -- the difference between men and boys is the price of their toys! V. Neimanis Ottawa, Canada Tom Jarcho Wrote: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:16:56 -0400 (EDT) From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) Subject: comments on comments, digest#362 My last postings led to some extreme comments that just have to be questioned and commented on: "Like it or not, everything in our society is based on money and it's value" "Any item that sold for $4.95 that will fetch more than that is/was an investment, not only in play pleasure but financial return." "Let me ask you, would you rather have an original wrinkled one hundred dollar bill or a crisp counterfit? " Money is the means by which society exchanges goods and services. Period. A toy is something you buy and play with. There is a big difference between money and toys. In fact they are almost opposites. And "collecting" Flyer trains is a form of playing with toys. Nothing else. Buying a toy train is like buying a movie ticket. it is an investment in fun. A toy train's resale value is and should be, unpredictable, imaginary, arbitrary,and highly dependent on circumstances of purchase and sale. Attempting to impose a set of rules on the situation will not change the reality of same and may create a worse situation. Calling a partly restored piece a forgery is foolish. Very few toy trains make it through life without being altered. Many if not most Flyer locos will not run well unless the brush springs and various other parts are replaced. Even mint boxed sets decay, and most boxed sets have been "upgraded" with a few better quality pieces and boxes. The only way a piece can be absolutely guaranteed original is if the original owner sells it to you and states that he has not altered it in some way. This does not happen often and is not reliable. There is no other way to guarantee originality. To me a forgery would be a train not manufactured at Erector Square. Even that rule is iffy. In fact, I have a few boxed pieces that I bought at Jerry's on 23rd st. while the Gilbert factory was shutting down, and there's no way to know if they were assembled in New Haven or in Jerry's back room! I have a reasonably large amount of trains, There is no way I could state with certainty that a piece is all original, nor could I remember what changes I made. A few items I can remember because the restoration involved something unusually demanding. Close examination would reveal more, but to be sure, each item would have to be totally disassembled. This would take months. Hey, I've got some nice trains here. If I wanted to sell them, and I could find someone who wanted to buy them, they might be tempted to pay a nice price. Would I be cheating them? I don't think so. They look great. They all run well in both directions, and the reverse units and sound devices work. They couple and uncouple and light up. All the window strips are in place. All the accessories operate. Any play damage and decay have been strictly, sternly, and skillfully dealt with and my very large stock of parts has allowed me to replace any defective ones. A few trains even had factory defects that I repaired. Most important, they've brought joy to three generations so far. Does the fact that I worked on some of them mean I now have to "degrade" the status of all of them to "operator pieces"? I refuse to accept that. All that work and vigilance should be reflected in their value. Why should I have been forced to spend time keeping elaborate records of each repair in case a "serious collector" (that's an oxymoron) might want to purchase something? Sorry, I've been too busy having a life, and shouldn't be penalized for it. Finally: "You may wish to contact the good folk at the Whitney Museum and register their reaction to this comment. " The Whitney Museum is in greater New Haven, where AC Gilbert was at one time an important employer. Like most Northeastern US cities, New Haven has been very hard hit by the export of jobs and the resultant crime, drug, and other social problems, although things are looking up a little now. My little niece there had been to over 20 funerals of her friends and classmates before she graduated from high school a few years ago. Just as Flyer trains have meaning to us personally as a link to better days gone by, the Whitney exhibit is a way for New Haven to look back to better days and try to figure out what hit them. No doubt there are museum displays devoted to owl pellets and the fascinating and important science of scatology. Does that mean that owl feces is now a valuable historical collector's item? Is it a good investment? And most important, is it original? The point here is that toy trains are bought and sold because they are fun -- the toy train situation is too complicated to be controlled by rules about originality in an attempt to protect some mythical value. It just won't work unless we have police, lawyers, and laboratories, and who wants that? Not most of us. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4864	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Don T.'s Market Assessment

Don: I wish that your succinct and to-the-point advice had reached the ears of certain easily disillusioned manufacturers before they lauched their product ideas. As cool as I think the Zephyr is, I am not all that wild about buying one. Even if it were plastic and sold for $250, I might not want one. I want to support the hobby. I want 3rd. Rail to build in S-gauge, but I really don't want a Zephyr. I am not alone in this. I think they chose this model because it is simpler and cheaper to produce than a highly detailed steamer. This is the same wrong headed motivation that destroyed Lionel's SD-40-2 in Conrail paint. Wrong model at the wrong time. Then, as they back away, they say: "S-gauge isn't a big enough market to support tooling up and producing, blah, blah, blah." There is no one as qualified as you (except maybe Ron B.) to have made that assessment. I hope you can share those thoughts with the people at Third rail in some way that will keep them in the game. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4865	From: John Foley	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Message: 1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 06:16:44 -0500 From: ironhors@... Subject: St. Louis meet????? Looking for info about an apparent S gauge meet in St. Louis area next month , possibly the Chicago S Gaugers moving theirs to spread the effort. Hi Click on this, and you find all the info. you need http://www.angelfire.com/mo/FallSFest/info.html John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4866	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Southwinds

Do they have a web site? I'd like to know more about the 2-8-0, and 4-4-2 that were mentioned in yesterday's list. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4867	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: 3rdRAIL NO S SCALE

Yes friends, 3rd rail paid for an S Gaugian ad and then dropped everything. There is only one 3rd Rail a division of Sunset Models. Yes they have canceled the Zephyr project but if we S people don't start locating more like minded "birds of a feather" then no one will be able to afford to carry our diverse but few needs. How can we use the internet or any other media to build an interest in S Scale, Highrail or Sn3/Sn2 from the general public? That's why I proposed over a year ago building a generic S gauge train set to be sold at Wal-Mart and Target stores. There was no consensus then of what to go with so the idea went. http://www.3rdrail.com/ Glenn > From: "Jeff Smith" <smith@...> > > I went to the 3rd Rail website and it says they are discontinuing S scale > projects due to a lack of interest. http://www.3rdrail.com/s_scale.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4868	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] 3rd Rail

Hmm, all comments about choice of project, etc. aside, it doesn't seem like they've given their advertising enough of a chance to filter down to the entire market. Advertising relies on repetition to gain interest, and one month's ads ain't gonna cut it in any scale, IMHO. Maybe they thought there is a pent-up demand for product, and they found some easy pickin's in S, then it turns out we're just like the "show me" state and we think a bit before we spend? S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4869	From: John Foley	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: Zephyr

>Delivered-To: foley164@... >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:05:51 -0700 >From: Scott Mann <sdmann@...> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) >X-Accept-Language: en >To: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: Re: Zephyr Hi Folks Below is a message I send and got back from Scott of 3rd Rail. So I guess I will keep giving out the Flyers and we will see. > >John, > >I appreciate your effort. If we can get 200 orders then we can go ahead >with the project. > >Scott > >John Foley wrote: > >> Hi Scott >> Is their anyway that you could give us until the >> end of the year to get you more orders for the Zephyr and >> Yankee. I still have penty of flyers I had made and in the next >> 4 mos I have alot of shows to do. I will be going ti the S Fest >> at St Louis in Oct. Their is always at least 800-1000 S gaugers >> at this show. >> The S Fest is at >> http://www.angelfire.com/mo/FallSFest/info.html >> >> Thanks >> John > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4870	From: Andy McBride	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail

Bingo David! David Dewey hit the nail right on the head when he pointed out that it seems they haven't given their advertising much of a chance. I've been working in the advertising end of the hobby market for most of the last six years. In that time I've seen a lot of great products fall by the wayside because of a poor marketing plan. I've also seen a lot of poor products succeed because of a great marketing plan. The Sunset Models ad looks nice but to be honest I completely missed it the first time around. I suspect I breezed right passed it thinking it was another O-gague brass offering. It wasn't until I heard about it right here on the S-list did I go back and find it. My advice to anybody coming out with a new s-gague product like this is to do something to get you noticed. If you design the ad to resemble ads you've used for products in other scales chances are the customers your looking for are going to miss it just like I did. Once you get noticed give them a reason to buy it. A vague mention of price ("under $800") and a picture showing part of the first unit in a four unit set isn't going to cut it. After all can you imagine a purchase, hobby or otherwise, that you'd make for around $800 with only part of the item pictured and a description that is less then 50 words in an ad that appeared in a magazine once? My guess is most S-gaugers missed the ad and for those that did catch it I imagine a lot of people held off until more information was available. It would be a real shame if manufacturers took this as a signal that the S gauge market can't support this kind of high end product. It looks to me like a tune-up on the marketing campaign might be the solution. Keeping the S-Faith,

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4871	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: values and restoration and maintenance

the most pertinent factor in the repair/restore/run/maintain forum is this-the negative comments on the positive value of restoration came from a dealer. a dealer will always offer less (often much less) for your trains than, say, your friends. so actual maximum value in the resale end lies in the true train lover sector, not with dealers. if my austin-healey was in the shape it was 25 years ago, it wouldn't be worth it's weight in scrap metal.the fenders, rocker covers, pistons, valve guides, brake rotors and calipers, wheels, points,condensor and rotor are all replacement parts, and they are NOT BMC parts. why? because they don't exist anymore, that's why! it was hard to get parts in 1976 that were factory manufactured! the car looks and runs at least as well as it did in 1962-even thought the SU carburettors should've been replaced by 3 webers.so is it an austin-healey, or a marganski-healey? all i know is that it's insured for $24,000 US, and that's a hell of a lot more than the $750 i paid for it-and it passed MV inspection back then, too. so if you have a beater that's relatively complete, there is no gain in parting it out-how many 336s does it take to make one? good replacement parts, choice of paint and marking will create an engine that has and will bring good value to someone looking for a nice, clean runner. That is the customer who will pay you what it's worth, not someone who wants it for little to mark up a lot and plead "it was like that when i got it".-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4872	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: sequencing relays

The definitive book that covers sequencing relays for model trains is: Electrical Handbook for Model Railroaders by Paul Mallory New York, Simmons'Boardman, 1955. It is out of print as far as I know but is so good that it is worth a major hunt. Good Luck! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4873	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: 3rd RAIL EMAIL

From: Scott Mann <sdmann@...> To: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> Dear Glen, We do not take deposits for reservations, so there is no money to refund. We advertised once in CTT, with little response and once in S-Gaugian with no response. That sums it up. Scott >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4874	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Digest Number 365

Tom, your off track divergence to owl feces is totally off subject and is in no way relative to the collection of trains or anything else. >-- the toy train situation is too complicated to be controlled by rules >about originality in an attempt to protect some mythical value. It just >won't work unless we have police, lawyers, and laboratories, and who wants >that? Not most of us. < That is life in any civilized society and in many, many cases it still does not work even with all the above "helpers". My point is that if I am interested in collecting original, unrefinished, unrestored trains, that is what I want and that is my right. What matters is this: if you show me a very nice refinished piece that is so well done it is difficult to see that it is refinished without tearing it down and comparing it and I ask you if it is refinished and you know it is refinished, yet you reply "no" or "I am not sure" or "I think it is original" you are being deceptive to consumate a transaction. Flat out illegal. If you want to refinish everything that is fine with me, but that is not what I collect. And, if I buy an item from you, I expect you to be straight about the condition which includes refinishing. I run what you refinish. Offer still stands. Send me original new and like new stuff and I'll send you two for refinishing. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4875	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: [S-Scale] Digest Zephyr

<<FWIW Some of us do want it! Interesting - I would have thought this would be a good choice for both the scale and hi-rail crowd. Particularly given a release a very long time ago of a model by Gilbert. As for me it was definitely a good choice since I definitely want a Flying Yankee. >> Personally, I am VERY disappointed to hear this didn't "fly".....and surprised! In New England, the FY was a GREAT choice !!! I tried to do my part to support the project by attempting to work with Sunset as a dealer, but received a rather "cold" response. My impression was that they basically preferred to sell everything direct. I ended up placing a retail order for only one unit for myself. As a result, I had to tell several customers who inquired about the Flying Yankee to contact Sunset direct. Did they???? I have no idea. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4876	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: digests 362&365

Charles L. Day said: "My point is that if I am interested in collecting original, unrefinished, unrestored trains, that is what I want and that is my right. " It certainly is but it leads to problems: If you and others like you proclaim that your standards are the proper standards for the hobby as a whole, which they are not, and maintain an organization to attempt to enforce your narrow and twisted views and standards upon a bunch of people who are playing with toys, and start talking about police, lawyers, laboratories, and fraud charges, it tends to distort and poison the hobby as a whole. In fact, it's disgusting. To call these things "helpers" is naive. In the larger context of society, they are symptoms of grave social ills. Why import them into a hobby which most practicioners look to as an escape from all that, especially when as you say, " ...in many, many cases it still does not work"? Trying to bring these elements into this hobby, and trying to sue and arrest people over a matter of toys, strikes me as uncivilized. If your standards are so stringent, don't buy anything until you inspect it. There is no way to tell if a train is completely "original, unrefinished, unrestored". Most of 'em aren't. However, good luck to you in your search. It is certainly your constitutionally protected right to believe in something that may or may not exist. Have at it! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4877	From: John Foley	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail

>Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:45:38 -0700 >To: S-Scale >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: 3rd Rail > >Hi Folks. > > 3rd Rail has decided to hold off on thier decison on the >Zephyr/Yankee until Nov. So if you want nows the time to do it. >Please go to > > http://www.3rdrail.com/s_scale.htm > > And check it out. > > John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4878	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: digests 362&365

In a message dated 9/10/99 7:45:49 PM, jarcho@... writes: << If you and others like you proclaim that your standards are the proper standards for the hobby as a whole, >> Tom, could I interest you in joining the TCA? :))))))) (Sorry, I couldn't resist!). BB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4879	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, September 12, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4880	From: Richard	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Wow what a difference a day makes..WARNING

WARNING..some "nasty home truths following" This is from someone , like some others who wears two hats. That of modeler, and manufacturer ( in 2000) I have mentioned this before , but it is entirely appropriate to reinforce this view with another airing. I'm talking about "S" and the Sunset debacle. I wont mince words here, what a bunch of cry baby amatuers...sheesh!! Lets see, don't do any research , have no understanding of your market, don't advertise it properly (notice I said properly)...come up with a seemingly poor choice, with limited interest as a prototype...AND they wonder why it failed. Are theses guys REAL business people...they might be nice guys and all...but I wouldnt ask them to organise the proverbial drink in a brewery with that approach. I am surely tired of the " why didn't youreerve one if you want "S" to survive"....because I didn't bloody want one!!! I will buy ONLY what I want...not to support something out of some misplaced altruistic ideal of wwe need all the numbers so come on...buy a ABC RR 1945 XY ..nope wont cut mustard with me. I come from a land where you could buy most things, or modify to suit...no one rammed that previous crap down my throat...what land??...HO ... Yes I know "S" is different. Now some home truths..I have a very limited budget to spend on my passion...big ticket brass is, whilst drool potential...simply off the agenda for me....shame but true. I am firstly a moderm modeler with very Western tastes...in fact very PNW. However since launching into my multi-prototype exhibition venture...I am able to explore many more avenues of RailRoading interest. Point being I have my tastes...so do you all. Why should you or anyone part with money, simply 'cos its the only thing on the shelf.. stuff that for a joke. The only trouble with "S" is simply numbers...not protype, or modeling persuasion...simply numbers...and this is especially true in the SCALE arena. If cars makers were in the "S" scene they would go broke or pull out...even their niche marketed models (autos) would fail to be profitable. Ours is a VERY VERY difficult and DIFFERENT market. I love "S...can't see me changing my predominant scale for a long time (might dabble, but I digress)...we all know why we like this scale, but do the manufacturers. To the manufacturers.... only a few of you guys have the beans going in the right pot...and generally you are the ones still around outfits like American Models, S Helper , Des Plaines ...BTS ( couple of others as well) seem to be the better practitioners in the "mass" market....but then we don't have a MASS market. Quit your quibbles about AM, theyre around., lots of others aren't...sure I'd like it if some stuff was more prototype orintated, but they know thier market...theyre around. That Sunset , take their bat and ball and go home...what a bunch of sooks...they did not do their homework. I've done mine, and am keeping it current...some of this I was to share soon on a posted list , as the personnel who hepled deserved to see it made public...though this is the sort of stuff manufacturers do and KEEP A GUARDED SECRET. In the world of RTR diesels ...here are some ...well not dead certs..but close Six axle SD40-2, SD7/9, FM Train Master (Put in Pennsy colours and it WILL walk), U30/33C Four Axle GP38-2, GP40, U23B, SW1500, GP15 Early F's were well represented and someone has done their homework there already!!! eh Don (strangely not a great enthusiam for E's) Why no one has made a SD9 has really got me perplexed The list does go a bit more and a bit more diverse...but those are IN demand As a manufacturer , I have spent a lot of time asking questions...again and again..and again, going to those who responded to find out in greater detail what they want an how. I now have a very good picture of some possibilities. The SW1500 project continues, had some set backs, and some wins. Projected release of KIT early 2nd Q 2000 est price $229. A propoer release is planeed and formulated for the correct time ( But Jeff feel free to mention the up and coming status in Dispatch) The other lay down misere...here it comes again...and again...IS a Christmas time trainset, aimed at the Dept type collectors and also the folk who remember having a trainset as a kid, the flow on from this has the greatest potential....sure quite a few bucks on the line, but if research properly and marketed professionally and cleverly ...no more a business risk than necessary, and the returns would fund some very interesting product ( and still on a commercial basis) Some very intersting ideas about appaling tothe collectors of this world...potential there for brass...but you dont sticj a couple of half baked ads in toy magasines and expect a rush to the door..seriously guys...how do they stay in business... >:~)) Richard S Modeler Sunny Creek Models

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4881	From: Richard	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Thankyou John

I think I failed to mention the fantastic effort by John Foley in helping me to get a lot of the feed back that I recieved, thankyou. Quite frankly , it was the selfless , unpaid and generous efforts like this that prompts me to pass on the information gathered. A more organised list will go soon to various viewing locations >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4882	From: Ron Sebastian	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] 3rd RAIL EMAIL

Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote: > Seems to me that the decision to cancel the project was made the same > week (approximately almost) that the Sept. issue of the S GAUGIAN came > out -- the one with Sunset's ad. What did he expect? An e-mail > avalanche overnight? > > If I were a conspiracy nut, I might conclude that Father Mort wanted to > let Son Scott handle a project that wouldn't get Sunset Models into > serious trouble. > "S"incerely, > > Ed L. It sounds as if you hit the nail squarely on the head. Conspiracy theory probably explains why this is the second major Budd passenger project in S Scale to be prematurely canceled in the past couple of years. Perhaps these folks should give it more time. I agree with you that more market research is needed and the NASG should be involved. Perhaps the NASG should start a brass committee. They used to have one for freight cars. The Zephyr project certainly would go if they were behind it. Ron Sebastian

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4883	From: John Foley	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail Again

>Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:50:29 -0700 >To: S-Scale >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: 3rd Rail Again > >Hi Folks > Getting old forgot to mention we still have a chance again for >the Mikes too. > John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4884	From: Richard	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Brass Brass Brass!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guys What is this preoccupation with non ferrous metals. The manufacturing methods available courtesy of technology are quite numerous. Why does everyone harp on brass....because it lends itself to small (100-500) runs ..so does half a dozen other methods. Now some of you may be able to afford a dozen brass locos and bloody good luck to you. Companies don't exist by concentrating on the cream...they have to make some sort of milk..... This scale needs more bread and butter manufacturers, or more importantly product. Sure the Zephyr was a landmark train, so here are some other wacko suggestions, City of San Francisco with very early E's (even before E2's) full train , fully painted, probably line up at arounf $3000 , come on who wants one...and who could forget GM's busses on wheels (areo train), Varney sold stacks of them, surely a market in Nickel Silver (Should tell Sunset, good project for them!!). Now something with actually a real chance at success , the complete list of UP Gas Turbines...aimed at the collector, boy would they be something. What about an early Milwaukee Double cab bi-polar electric....mmmm that'd be nice ( kinda like them actaully) But a note to Sunset and others don't expect to sell 300 of them ( well not in one lifetime) All of my projections for my kits allow for an initial takeup of 20-25 with an eventual potential buy of only 100-125 in the first 5 years of any given model.(any more is a bonus) I know there are only 2000 odd modelers-well I'm odd :-)) and that these are widely dispersed according to modeling interest. I figured this out from 15000 Kms away...so those operators who get to go to the shows and yack to their potential market face to face have absolutely no excuse in my book for doing accurate market research. There is product begging to be made......but keep in mind a run of thousands is required to make RTR injected plastic, hundreds for brass, though you could probably get away with 100 at higher per unit price and runs of sub 100 can be profitable in newer age resins and plastics utitlising non metal die moding. This is a DIFFERENT scale, we need DIFFERENT approaches and solutions...yeah I like Brass, saved up my pocket money for a year to buy my first Brass loco, a lot of moula for a teenager, and it ran like crap. From that day on I have never held Brass in quite the same light , and have always thought there must be other ways to get whatI want, and then I rediscovered Athearn.....Hmm the Athearn of S scale is what a certain manufacturer wished to be...wonder if he has had time to look at Athearn today........now thats the way to a mass market....quality at an affordable price....anyone who ever has looked into marketing will see these words over and over again "Quality at an affordable Price".....taken to its extrapolated application....S needs, "Appealling product of good quality at affordable prices"....Brass is not the first thing that pops into the the head to suit this. There are some very intersting technologies out there, some of which I hope to explore and use. I am only too happy to discuss these with anyone. Off to polish my Brass ...............(Belt Buckle) ....>:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4885	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 365

Before this gets into a bigger shouting match, I *think* some misunderstanding is occurring! So I'll attempt to be "Uncle David" and try to restate some of this in hopes I may actually understand individuals' meanings. If I completely blow it, my humble apologies! 1) Toy trains are collected by many different people, for many different reasons. 2) One reason isn't really "more valid" than another, even though the particular reason holds no interest to an individual. ( A MIB guy/gal may not understand the desires of a "Run 'em if ya got 'em" guy, and vice-versa.) 3) Toy trains are bought and sold on open and closed markets, buyers and sellers have some pre-conceived notions of what they are dealing in. 4) Misrepresenting an item is not honest, nor fair. What the legal definition of that act is may or may not be "Fraud"--I'm not a lawyer! (We won't go down that road, or alley!!!) 5) TCA has developed a set of standards, albeit a bit subjective, but it does seem to work for the rest of the world, and it is based on originality. Just because enthusiast "A" wants to buy noting but MIB stuff, doesn't mean that enthusiast "B" has to buy MIB, but he'd better not sell "A" a restored item as MIB, even though it may look the same, or even run better, as that isn't what "A" is looking for--But "C" may be drooling all over it! And I think that's where this discussion has hit a snag! "A" is arguing that "But my job is better than the original!" unfortunately that isn't the issue, the issue is "has it been restored?" Now if you think a properly restored unit should be as valuable as a mint one, well, that's a function of the marketplace. So far, it appears that the mint one is still valued higher. It doesn't matter how much arguing we do, the market will be where it will be. For example, I can argue that my '53 Dodge Pickup is much better than the '53 Ford, but the market doesn't agree, and probably never will! Of course, I use this to my advantage when buying parts, "it's only a Dodge part! Can't be worth much!" And maybe that's the answer--accept the way the market is and use it to your own advantage. As usual, no simple answers!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4886	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: digest #365

David: Thanks, but... 1. I at no time require someone to speak for me. 2. This is not a shouting match -- it's a forum discussion, a passionate and interesting one. I for one am quite willing to have some statutes, some economics, and any other kind of hard information and tight reasoning thrown out there by whomever and added to the mix. If this were a shouting match I would not have used the word "feces". 3. But I have issues with some things that are more or less unthinkingly accepted by some members of our community, and we haven't gotten to the bottom of it yet, though we need to. Your posting reflects some of this. 4. The TCA standards do not work for everybody -- not by a long shot. Every time we get on this topic, various guys post their discontent with them, not just me. A. The TCA does not reflect, protect, the hobby as a whole, but defends the interests of those who have been in the hobby a long while and already own a lot of trains. It tries to keep prices as high as possible in various ways. Their ranking system is one of them. Restored trains represent a threat to those who already have large collections, because of the laws of supply and demand. That is what it is all about, and is why partly restored trains are disrespected. They represent a positive to those who are still building their collections and railroads, however. B. Now, most guys are too busy enjoying their trains in the way of their choice to worry about this situation, and rightfully so. But it's kind of like an election in which few people bother to learn the issues and vote, and an extremist candidate with a vested interest walks off with a win. 5. The emphasis on originality, which is not the innocent standard that it appears to be, has various unpleasant and unhealthy ripple effects. I wish to deal with two here. A. It can put someone in a difficult position, because it is hard to determine complete originality. Now THAT can lead to a shouting match -- I'm sure it has led to many of those and worse. Plus, different guys have different standards of what the term means. Certain individuals seem to have a strong desire to add more "order" to the hobby -- more emphasis on rules, value, the insistence that our trains are investments, which they certainly are not, etc. Thus all the talk of lawyers, police, laboratories, fraud, and so on that is so antithetical and inappropriate to a hobby. Fortunately, intent to defraud is difficult to prove and to all practical intents and purposes, caveat emptor remains the rule as it should be. (Any person with legal training & experience -- please jump on this if you have something to add.) B. Now I see the threat of legal action over "originality" as a very unhealthy thing. I have no desire to defraud anyone or make them unhappy in any other way. I don't enjoy any form of conflict except sports. The idea that someone would be liable to civil or criminal legal sanction because they take the ordinary everyday (in our hobby, anyway) action of selling someone else a toy is sick. How can one enjoy the hobby when it's under this kind of cloud? Yet this is where this TCA kind of thinking inevitably leads. C. I have consistently tried my very best to make this a more fun hobby for everyone in it. My record speaks for itself. I have published over 40 articles, with no profit to myself, on how to make these wonderful trains run better, and have answered many hundreds of questions by letter and e-mail. There are no doubt hundreds of trains zooming around toy tracks today that would not be running were it not for my efforts. I have also published any information that came my way that would be of interest to the pure collectors. I have consistently published more and better information about safety than any other writer in the toy or model railroading fields BECAUSE I CARE ! And just as I try to warn guys to avoid a dangerous electric shock or a fire, I see this thinking about lawyers, fraud, and trying to make trains into investments as DANGEROUS, a threat to our happiness. 6. The other ripple effect of this emphasis on originality / trains as investments thinking is that the work of serious professional train restorers is disrespected, degraded, and undervalued, and the development of this art is slowed. A. This situation will probably continue until we have a strong and effective guild of professional train restorers, hopefully allied with the American Guild of Conservators. This is probably about 10 years or so down the line. During that intervening time, a lot of white metal will buckle, a lot of paint will fade, a lot of lettering will peel off, and we will receive a better welcome than we would now. B. So Charles, I don't want to swap trains with you. But if in a few years you wake up one morning and find that an area of one of the pieces in your favorite set has lost its paint, I would like to restore it for you. I would like that restoration to be perfect, because my efforts have been supported to the point where I could perfect them. I would like not to have to worry that my work will lead to legal action by anyone. And I'd like my work to get the respect, and the price, it deserves. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4887	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: American Models NYC Caboose

Hey everyone, I have an American Models NYC extended vision caboose numbered 20235 with hi-rail wheel sets and kadee scale couplers. It is in like new condition in the box and I will trade it to anyone for anything of equal value. I need hi-rail and Flyer compatible couplers. E-mail me with any offers. Thanks in advance. Steve Blackburn TCA, NASG Rocky Mt. Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4888	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/10/1999
Subject: Re: digest #365

Hmm more thoughts on this discussion. And this time I will lean heavily on comparison to another hobby, that I've been in almost as long as AF (AF since about 1st grade, or earlier, Old Cars since 8th grade--won't reveal the year right now, give me *some* dignity! First, I didn't mean to "speak" for anyone, just using different words that *might* be more understood by all sides. Since I'm dyslexic, I should know better, I can't even follow my own writing!! I became interested in "old cars" before the "big money" found them. When I started in, the Model A Ford Club of America was mostly early middle-aged guys with families who wanted to remember their, or their family's first car. Then old cars became a "hot investment" --if you don't think the hobby has changed that much, I just got a flyer for an annual auction, sent unrequested, full color, about the size of the "great years" AF catalogs. Nice enough, I may put it on the bookshelf to look at later. That puppy cost money to print and mail! And the individuals in the car hobby have changed. While there are still a few restoring in their backyards, mostly it's "turn-key" and modified, and the emphasis is no longer on pre-WW2 stuff, but stuff even into the 70s!!! Restored. What is "restored"???? Standards vary, widely. I have had to restore cars that had been purchased "restored." Some were even unsafe to drive! Was this fraud?? Well, in one case it must have been as the owner didn't have to pay his own money for my work! No one has yet been able to enforce a hobby-wide definition of "restored" This will probably be true of the toytrain field too. Personally, I prefer to compare my repair work against factory specs, if they are available. Someone else may only want the outside to look good. (that's what happens w/ cars!) So what would you call a 336 with a can motor, electronic reverse and complete sound system that externally has been carefully matched to the factory finish, even with re-nickeled side rods? A beaut, to be sure! Definition of terms. Another difficult area. When I started in "cars" there were carefully defined definitions; Horseless Carriage, Vintage, Classic, Special interest. Classic at that time was reserved for those few cars that met the Classic Car Club's definition, mostly expensive, custom-built from late '20s to '40. Now "everyone" calls a '69 'Cudda a "classic." Still rubs us "old-timers" the wrong way! And a new thought. The warping of the '46 plastic is now well-known, even accepted on some items. It's not going to get any better, and even the more "stable" plastic is now showing it's true nature. The stuff has a finite life; at some point the piece will be a blob of melted plastic on a shelf! A good investment broker wouldn't put his/her money in such a commodity!! Some of the "pot metal" will have the same problems (I understand that impurities of as little as .1% (yes, that's a decimal point in front of the 1!!!) causes the failure along the alloy's grain lines). I've already noticed wheels coming loose on locomotives I've owned for decades that weren't loose before--and it's not from running them, or bad storage!! So, as I said before, no simple answers, but in retrospect there is one--to the "big question:" Are you having fun with your trains?? And I can say; YES!!!!! S' David D. Hmm, it's midnight folks, Do you know where your trains are??

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4889	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Great Layout Photos

I found some great 'S' railroad layouts on the web. They will knock your socks off. You need to log onto the onelist website. (http://www.onelist.com) Then you need to find (and maybe even join, if you join select the 'nomail' option if you like) the Sn3 (narrow gauge) mailing list. In their 'FILES' section they have posted some great photos. As in the past I offer my web site to display shots from your layout, or if you have a website, I will be happy to add a link. If you need help building a web site, I can do that too, all free. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4890	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Seaboard coaler

I have a seaboard coaler that now runs due to the suggestions & assistance of many of you in the list. However, I am still having one problem. The clam shell does not always close when the red button (2 button operation) is pushed. This is an inconsistent problem, since most of the time it operates. Is this in the switch? Suggestions appreciated. Mike

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4891	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Sunset

<<From: Scott Mann <sdmann@...> To: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> Dear Glen, We do not take deposits for reservations, so there is no money to refund. We advertised once in CTT, with little response and once in S-Gaugian with no response. That sums it up. Scott > >> Wow..... I read a short statement here, full of a LOT of ATTITUDE ! Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4892	From: Gale Hall	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: product selection

Ya know if ya look back, you'll see this is the second strike for the Z project, Ominicron was going to do this in S and the plans slipped to the side. And while the 90 committments for the project is short of the 300 they would like , that still represents a $90,000 committment to an S project. Remember when Overland did the SD-40-2 and the GP-38-2 and then announce they would do a UP turbine and were unhappy at the response, and remember the $350.00 sanding service system....The thought behind some of these offering comes from a manufacturer having all the information on hand to do an HO project, and some one comes along an says let's enlarge the item to S we have all the information all ready.......and maybe we aren't really interested it this project at all, easy or not. And then remember the guy that said: "I'd pay $2000 for a brass engine if it would take AF curves..." That was about day 4 or so after the 3 rd Rail site announced the steam engine........suddenly yor are under quota and under priced according to one wild viewpoint. Look at the S gauge brass folks that have stayed in the business and the outsiders that have bounced in a out, always saying S is too small a market place....but many times selling out the product.... Go figure gale hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4893	From: Richard	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: product selection

As Gale points out.....look at those who are still around.....they have one thing in common....they sell...what sells!! ridiculously simple really. You can have the best darn widget-thingy...but if no one wants it!!! What gets me about the whole thing is that there are a dozen things we would all buy tomorrow...but they aren't the big ticket items...they're smaller fry...and they need to be very reasonably priced...what about a good variety of trucks ( rolling stock variety not auto, though good cheap platic kits would sell I reckon)...a good bridge...some of you know the suggestion I sent to Jack Parker ( and will now send to Cliff and sons). Why are we in such a mad hurry to get some newbie manufacturer to hit a homer first time to bat...lets ease them in , build their confidence...build the market...build a foundation.....lets get our feet back on the ground and slow down a little, calm the Zephyr to a breeze!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4894	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Re: Wow what a difference a day makes..WARNING

Hi Richard: Good to hear the SW1500 project is ontrack for next year. Any idea how you market them in North America especially Canada? Needless to say, I plan to purchase a couple of them to work on my Canada Southern Railway. cheers Richard wrote: > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > WARNING..some "nasty home truths following" > > This is from someone , like some others who wears two hats. > That of modeler, and manufacturer ( in 2000) > > I have mentioned this before , but it is entirely appropriate to > reinforce this view with another airing. I'm talking about "S" and the > Sunset debacle. > > I wont mince words here, what a bunch of cry baby amatuers...sheesh!! > Lets see, don't do any research , have no understanding of your market, > don't advertise it properly (notice I said properly)...come up with a > seemingly poor choice, with limited interest as a prototype...AND they > wonder why it failed. Are theses guys REAL business people...they might > be nice guys and all...but I wouldnt ask them to organise the > proverbial drink in a brewery with that approach. > > I am surely tired of the " why didn't youreerve one if you want "S" to > survive"....because I didn't bloody want one!!! > I will buy ONLY what I want...not to support something out of some > misplaced altruistic ideal of wwe need all the numbers so come on...buy > a ABC RR 1945 XY ..nope wont cut mustard with me. > I come from a land where you could buy most things, or modify to > suit...no one rammed that previous crap down my throat...what > land??...HO ... > Yes I know "S" is different. Now some home truths..I have a very limited > budget to spend on my passion...big ticket brass is, whilst drool > potential...simply off the agenda for me....shame but true. > I am firstly a moderm modeler with very Western tastes...in fact very > PNW. However since launching into my multi-prototype exhibition > venture...I am able to explore many more avenues of RailRoading > interest. Point being I have my tastes...so do you all. > Why should you or anyone part with money, simply 'cos its the only thing > on the shelf.. stuff that for a joke. > The only trouble with "S" is simply numbers...not protype, or modeling > persuasion...simply numbers...and this is especially true in the SCALE > arena. > If cars makers were in the "S" scene they would go broke or pull > out...even their niche marketed models (autos) would fail to be > profitable. > Ours is a VERY VERY difficult and DIFFERENT market. > I love "S...can't see me changing my predominant scale for a long time > (might dabble, but I digress)...we all know why we like this scale, but > do the manufacturers. > To the manufacturers.... only a few of you guys have the beans going in > the right pot...and generally you are the ones still around outfits like > American Models, S Helper , Des Plaines ...BTS ( couple of others as > well) seem to be the better practitioners in the "mass" market....but > then we don't have a MASS market. > Quit your quibbles about AM, theyre around., lots of others > aren't...sure I'd like it if some stuff was more prototype orintated, > but they know thier market...theyre around. > That Sunset , take their bat and ball and go home...what a bunch of > sooks...they did not do their homework. > I've done mine, and am keeping it current...some of this I was to share > soon on a posted list , as the personnel who hepled deserved to see it > made public...though this is the sort of stuff manufacturers do and KEEP > A GUARDED SECRET. > > In the world of RTR diesels ...here are some ...well not dead certs..but > close > > Six axle > SD40-2, SD7/9, FM Train Master (Put in Pennsy colours and it WILL walk), > U30/33C > Four Axle > GP38-2, GP40, U23B, SW1500, GP15 > > Early F's were well represented and someone has done their homework > there already!!! eh Don > (strangely not a great enthusiam for E's) > > Why no one has made a SD9 has really got me perplexed > > The list does go a bit more and a bit more diverse...but those are IN > demand > > As a manufacturer , I have spent a lot of time asking questions...again > and again..and again, going to those who responded to find out in > greater detail what they want an how. I now have a very good picture of > some possibilities. The SW1500 project continues, had some set backs, > and some wins. Projected release of KIT early 2nd Q 2000 est price > $229. A propoer release is planeed and formulated for the correct time ( > But Jeff feel free to mention the up and coming status in Dispatch) > > The other lay down misere...here it comes again...and again...IS a > Christmas time trainset, aimed at the Dept type collectors and also the > folk who remember having a trainset as a kid, the flow on from this has > the greatest potential....sure quite a few bucks on the line, but if > research properly and marketed professionally and cleverly ...no more a > business risk than necessary, and the returns would fund some very > interesting product ( and still on a commercial basis) > > Some very intersting ideas about appaling tothe collectors of this > world...potential there for brass...but you dont sticj a couple of half > baked ads in toy magasines and expect a rush to the door..seriously > guys...how do they stay in business... > > >:~)) Richard > > S Modeler > Sunny Creek Models > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4895	From: Richard	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: How will SW1500's be marketed

Alex asked, so I'll answer Well ,,its going to be quite simple really. These will not be made in huge numbers, in fact very small to start with....crawl, walk, run, fly. The internet is quite a thing...a marvelous marketing tool , if used advisedly. I already have sufficinet names of people who are intersted in one or two...in fact enough interest to guarantee the first run is sold out , twice over...if everyone actually ordered what they would, and have stated they might...but that never happens...so I think the first run will sell even!! then dribs and drabs until 3-5 years later that particular kit has reached 90% of its potential, then it becomes a back catalog seller (to use a Music Industry ananlogy). This doesn't mean you will necessarily miss out, just that I'm not gearing up for a run of 100 or so first out, the whole premise of this project has been to contain the costs so a small number will still be feasible money wise. Am not relying on tripple digit sales (nice, but not necessary!!) How will it be sold and marketed....on the NET.... a website will spring up later in the year and you'll be able to follow its progress...indeed make suggestions and get a sneak at other ideas. Secure payment systems will be in place...or send a check...no bother either way. All magazines will be notified with a press release ,complete with photos and info relating to the website (this is all free as well, keeping the price of product down, sneaky , but hey!!) by this time a production built up sample will be doing the major shows...so people can see the bloody thing...hey thats cool I want five!! yeah I wish!! When the kit is actually in the bag (well box) those who expressed an interest when I asked some time back will get first crack, an email will be sent advising them of the pending release and would they like to get in first. Hopefully contingency plans will enable me to quickly follow with a second run to fill extra orders. All this will be done direct...this product doesn't have any fat on it, doesn't allow for a middle man and normal dealer sales. So it doesn't really matter where you are...its all the same to me.....whether you're in Sydney , Toronta (been there :-)) hence the eh sound!! ) or Noo Joisey.So it'll be have a look , make you r order, slap your bills down , build a ki and enjoy!! Investigations show that shipping will be approx four weeks from receipt of funds...could be quicker but the shipping costs go through the roof. simple question ...long answer...and thanks for the interest...duly noted!! >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4896	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Collectibles, Flyers, trains, etc.

First let me preface this by declaring that I am not a member of TCA or NASG. It's not that I have anything against these organizations or anything like that, it's just that I am not a "joiner." To the best of my memory I have belonged to a very few organizations throughout my life. At present I am a life member of a local volunteer fire company. (I never attend meetings.) I belong to a local church. (Was put onto the Administrative Council a couple of years ago which I protested.) I am a member of a regional astronomy club. I was previously a member of two car clubs: Lincoln Zephyr and Lincoln Continental Owners' Clubs. (Dave Dewey, please note. I am still offended to hear people refer to 60s and 70s cars as "classics," even when they proclaim my 78 Lincoln Mark V or my 62 suicide door sedan to be one. This especially in light of the fact that some members of CCCA do not like to admit my postwar Mark I.) Now that I have probably offended about 95% or mor e of the subscribers to this list I hope I had your indulgence for a moment. Collection is a fact of everyday life. If you have anything, be it the styrofoam tray that you brought your food home from the supermarket or anything else, there probably is someone collecting it somewhere. I'm not sure that in the case of styrofoam trays they want the steak and Saran wrap on it to keep it mint, but someone would probably collect it. The same criteria applies to our S gauge stuff, whether ACG, L, brass, whatever. That being true, there will be organizations that will set standards to determine the value of an item. This is a fact of life, whether we find that fact to be acceptable or not. But it seems to me that between the extremes represented by the collector and those who absolutely have no use for collector mentality there exists some happy medium that probably will never be met. I don't like extreme collectors because their attitude very often is, "I don't want to see that ACG 322 Hudson reproduced because it will drive down the value of my 322." Of course the reproduced Hudson would not be the same as the old 322, and a different number assigned to it would allow new buyers to purchase the Hudson set for their sons and daughters. But the guy who critiques the standards does not fare very well either. The fact that things are collected (even feces ... check what's going on in archaeology at present) requires the establishment of some kind of standard. How many people do you know who have a ratty 302AC put a HIGH price tag on it because they know someone who sold one in mint condition for the same price. Many moons ago a friend of mine bought a hugh supply of ACG Flyer stuff at an estate auction. He was going to sell it at a local train meet. (The guy owned a hobby shop here at that time.) He asked me to appraise it for him. I got a UPac 4-8-4 from the collection for having done so. I gave him an itemized list of the equipment and the TOP dollar that he could expect to get for the stuff, adjusted, of course, for condition. I also told him that haggling goes on at the meets, and he should not expect to get top dollar for anything. He told me that he was going to sell everything regardless of the price. I happened to be at the first train meet where he offered the stuff for sale, and he was sticking to the "book" value that I gave him for everything. Although the guy has since moved out of the area, he still owned most of the collection when he left. If you want to have Flyer to operate stuff that you want to buy for a reasonable price then be eternally grateful to the collector and his standards. After all, any collectible is only worth what you can get for it when you must sell it. That applies to collectible cars, jewelry, art, etc., as well as toys. As I type this I am looking at two Mark I Lincoln toys that I originally bought at a local five and dime for a nickle back in 1947. I played the thing until the brittle early postwar stryrene that the car was made from disintegrated completely. As I went to various train meets throughout this area I had the image of the car, since I am a Lincoln fanatic) firmly fixed on my want list, although I was certain that I would never see one. Then, about 10 years ago, I found two at a train meet in Hamburg, PA. After a bit of haggling I got both of them for $2. Yes, they are toys. No, I would not permit my grandchldren to play with them. By the way, if anyone has a ratty plastic shell Reading Atlantic out there that they are willing to part with, please getin touch with me. I want to use one to build a Philadelphia and Reading camelback. Incidently, the Reading only had four backcab Atlantics, like the ACG model, in its roster. All the rest were camelbacks. (Mother Hubbards to the B&O buffs.) Now that I got everybody thoroughly upset by expressing my opinion I will close. W. Thomas Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4897	From: Neil Trump	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: 336 to restore or not?

To all: About 10 years ago I picked up a 336 with four chrome passenger cars. Unfortunately the 336 had definitely seen better days, it looked like it had been placed in a tool box and then left in the boot (trunk) of a car for a couple of months. The end result was that it was severely chipped all over with about 30 - 40 % of its paint lost. For many years now I take a selection of my trains to about 3 shows a year and every time I picked up this 336 with the idea of taking it to run I just returned it back to its box because it was something I was not proud to show to other people, basically it wasn't a true representation of Flyer. Two years ago I picked up this loco again for the umpteenth time and made a snap decision that we couldn't keep meeting like this, so, armed with a tin of paint stripper off came the rest of the paint and the restoration started. The end result is I now have a 4-8-4 that regularly goes out to shows and is admired by all. As to its value, well it looks like new but of course it will not command the same price. If you go by the guide lines that a restored piece grades a VG, then it has to be worth probably around the $300+/- mark. Yet, in its previous state how would it grade and what was its value, it was all complete and running but looked awful, a G+, or even better, $250? Who knows? How much do *I* value it at now, I haven't a clue, but from a monetary term I don't believe I have lost out, in fact from a pleasure point of view I have most definitely gained and how do you put a value on that? Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4898	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Re: digest #365

I've been reading this thread now for a few days, and I have to ask Tom where he gets his theorys of whats supposed to be and what is not. Tom, sorry, your way out there somewhere, and your wrong. I'll insert comments below as I go..... David: Thanks, but... 1. I at no time require someone to speak for me. **You seem to be doing fine for yourself..... 2. This is not a shouting match -- it's a forum discussion, a passionate and interesting one. I for one am quite willing to have some statutes or some rules of economics, and any other kind of hard information and tight reasoning thrown out there by whomever and added to the mix. If this were a shouting match I would not have used the word "feces". **So at this point your agreeing to statutes, and "some" rules of economics (evidently the ones that support your side of this alleged conspiracy if they exist....), and hard info & reasoning. Lets remember this ok.... 3. But I have issues with some things that are more or less unthinkingly accepted by some members of our community, and we haven't gotten to the bottom of it yet, though we need to. Your posting reflects some of this. **A theory of your own from what I've read..... > 4. The TCA standards do not work for everybody -- not by a long shot. Every time we get on this topic, various guys post their discontent with them, not just me. ** The TCA standards may not be LIKED by everyone, but if they do not work for them or they disagree with them they are free not to apply to the organization. The balance of that statement is incorrect, I've not read any discontent from anyone except from you, your in this alone. > > A. The TCA does not reflect, protect, the hobby as a whole, but defends the interests of those who have been in the hobby a long while and already own a lot of trains. **Bullcrap I as a TCA member resent this statement. Who and how are they protecting... specifically. Give us a specific person or persons who are materially gaining explicitly by the TCA being organized the way it is today???? The rules that may be in place cover ALL members at ALL times, there is no special Sovereignty here. I own a LOT of trains, and the TCA does nothing for me except connect me with other people in the hobby, as was its original intention when it was formed. >> It (TCA) tries to keep prices as high as possible in various ways. Their ranking system is one of them. HA!! This is laughable. The ranking system has nothing to do with the prices the independent sellers and dealers place on their items. Nor does it have anything to do with what quotes are placed in the guides as evidenced by the fact that there are such varying quotes between the two major publishers of such material. What you said inferrs that the TCA goes to each seller at each meet and says you MUST grade this item this way and price it HERE because WE say so. I've said to myself hundreds of times at shows TCA and non-TCA over the last 25 years, why do we even have grading standards, no one seems to use them. They charge top dollar no matter what condition its in. But the key to that statement is THEY are the dealers/sellers, NOT TCA. So this argument is moot as grading standards have nothing to do with the price set by the seller. Any other groundless ideas?? Specifically please, and with solid proof and data to back up the claim. > Restored trains represent a threat to those who already have large collections, because of the laws of supply and demand. That is what it is all about, and is why partly restored trains are disrespected. They represent a positive to >those who are still building their collections and railroads, however. ** As has been said before.... if one chose to stop, read and listen carefully to what has been said here before, its all very clear. Many different people collect different types and conditions of trains. No one is right or wrong, no one way is being forced on another for any reason. I have a huge collection as I said before. I could care less if 1000 restored 336's came out, their no threat to me. These mythical price swings are just that... myths. A prime example, the Oil Drum Loader. "L" reissued this piece, and the originals still bring better money on an open market than they did when the reissue hit the market. Its simply a matter of personal preference, nothing more. As been said before, I prefer an original, thats what I have. I have restored items in my collection, I'm not a complete purist. I have a Lionel O gauge Blue Comet set thats restored. I happen to love this set for its beauty. There was no way I could afford one with an original finish, so I managed to get a basket case and restore it. Other collectors are more of a purist than I am for what ever reason they choose. They may take even common items in rough condition as long as it has the finish that was applied at the factory. There are collectors out there who only buy pitiful lost souls and restore them. It may be the only thing they can afford, or they may just prefer the looks of a new piece but are not willing or able to buy them in original paint at the prices demanded BY SELLERS to have them. Who knows, who cares. The TCA has nothing to do with this, it strictly an individual thing. We are individuals, and we do our own thing. There is no one twisting my arm to buy only restored items or to buy only originals. Fully or partially restored trains are liked by some, but others prefer not to have them, so be it. Wheither one is still building a collection or not makes NO difference. I still have MY personal preferences set by ME, and I am still building my collection, and the way I want to. > B. Now, most guys are too busy enjoying their trains in the way of their choice to worry about this situation, and rightfully so. But it's kind of like an election in which few people bother to learn the issues and vote, and an extremist candidate with a vested interest walks off with a win. **Vote for what??? You agree here we all are enjoying doing our own thing, then its an election.... for what??? There is no one sneaking around here with a secret agenda....there is no conspiracy. Where is your "Hard Info"??? Who specifically is an example of your immaginary "Extremist Candidate", and what are their vested interest, specifically. I for one would like a specific name, address, phone, and a detailed outline of any wrongfull gain this person is alleged to have been a party to. Until then this is groundless...... >> 5. The emphasis on originality, which is not the innocent standard that it appears to be, has various unpleasant and unhealthy ripple effects. I wish to deal with two here. A. It can put someone in a difficult position, because it is hard to determine complete originality. Now THAT can lead to a shouting match ** No, this will lead to a difficult position.... > I'm sure it has led to many of those and worse. Plus, different guys have different standards of what the term means. ** No, original is original, restored is restored, touched up is touched up. These criteria are quite well defined for all unless someone wants to nitpick on small meaningless details like a brush spring that was replaced. Every hobby, be it cars or trains or furniture or whatever, has its generally accepted standards to define whats included in each type of definition. In toy trains its generally accepted that "Original" refers to paint/finish, and all "major" components. Brush springs and wire that may deteriorate thru normal operation are understood to be replaceable, and may have even been done by a factory service center with factory parts. Who knows and who cares. If one is going to make those petty little things a big issue, then they are making their own headaches. Its not an issue in this hobby. I think thats quite straight forward, and very easy to understand. >> Certain individuals seem to have a strong desire to add more "order" to the hobby -- more emphasis on rules, value, the insistence that our trains are investments, which they certainly are not, etc. Thus all the talk of lawyers, police, laboratories, fraud, and so on that is so antithetical and inappropriate to a hobby. **Exactly who??? Here are these mythical persons again. First, ALL of our society is governed by some sort of rules. This is how we maintain order. We form groups, and these groups have guilelines and rules to benefit the hobby. Laws are enacted in our world by social pressures. When the lawmakers write these laws and work them out and put them in effect, they are implementing a guideline or rule based on socially accepted prinicples and desires. In short the majority as a whole makes the rules. The same is applied to everything we do, inlcuding this hobby. A majority of people agreed that there needed to be some overall guidlines for the hobby, and it was made so. Thats life. If there is a control issue here, then a call to a counselor may be in order. Seeing that there are rules in everything we do, there must be some sort of enforcement, or the rules become moot. Its no different on the street than it is in the office or in this hobby. Its no one individual, its a majority as a whole. Not all rules will be completely agreeable to everyone. Thats the way it goes, none the less they are a fact of life and we must live with them. Quite contrary to the crying of WOLF here, the rules the hobby has are helpful. Trains ARE an investment wheither intentional or not. Many people do the train thing for what ever reason they choose. Some collect to show, some collect to run, some don't even consider what they do collecting at all. Cool.... When I first got into this hobby, I got into it because I loveds trains, and I still do. I loved the nostalgia, and day dreaming about yesteryear. I still do that today, however, as time has progressed, the value of these trains has risen to the poiint that its no longer a casual purchase. I'm not going to go into detail as to why this happened, it just did, and it started with one popular brand and moved thru the ranks starting in the 1980's. Seeing that I am going to be spending a good piece of change on many items it was only prudent to consider the financial end of things. To some, this is not an issue, and thats fine, spend what you want, when you want, and don't worry about tommorrow. Cool... For myself, I'd like to think I can get some of my money back someday. Thru years of experience I've seen that some items, and certain condition grades hold their value pretty well. So I figure that if I'm going to lay out the bucks I may as well try to defer the pain a little by maybe getting something back in the future. I try to buy the nicest things I can, and stick with fairly popular items when possible. To say the values have had no effect on the hobby is like trying to say the sun has had no effect on the warmth of the day. So yes, in a way trains are an investment. They are an investment in happiness, and an investment in history if nothing else. Unavoidably, they are also a financial investment to many. I know my S and L items will keep their value or appreciate in value. If they don't, I'm not worried about it. I've gotten the dividends of years of enjoyment out of them. But with prices today what they are, being prudent is wise. Its certainly not unethical or inappropriate. >> Fortunately, intent to defraud is difficult to prove and to all practical intents and purposes, caveat emptor remains the rule as it should be. (Any person with legal training & experience -- please jump on this if you have something to add) ** Gladly.... Its not difficult to prove at all. Its quite straight forward in fact. Caveat Emptor is not an escape all for anyone "misrepresenting" an item. (Note, we said "Misrepresenting" Not simply "Selling".) Look at the Cigarette Company problem. Warnings all over the boxes, commercials telling of the harmful effects of smoking, medical statistics, all of it. Their first defense was that "They should have known smoking was bad for them." (Caveat Emptor) Well maybe so, but they are still liable. Not because they did say something untruthful, but because of what they didn't say. Plain and simple, and this has been clearly written here twice in good examples but someone is not getting it.... If you as a seller know that an item is touched up, or repainted, and you do any of the following... you ARE Liable: 1.) Fail to tell the buyer the item is touched up or repainted weither they ask or not. 2.) Answer No, or I don't know to the questions: "Is this Original ?" or "Is this touched up?" or "Is this item repainted?". That is quite clear its a "misrepresentation", and its Fraud.....period. If you truly do not know, then your fine. That is the issue thats been discussed here, those are the answers. Yes, there is a little gray area. If the seller truly does not know, but its obvious to others that it is touched up or restored, and the seller should have picked up on this easily. Yes, in this case one could use the Caveat Emptor excuse, as it was so obvious that the buyer should have known too, even if they were a novice. I made a few of those deals myself when I started long ago, its a learning experience. Its good fodder for knowing and learning what your into. In this case two honest and agreeable people should be able to work out a compromise. If not then this is where the rules and laws come into play where a higher authority will make a decision which will enable both parties to become whole again. Its simple civil law. >>> B. Now I see the threat of legal action over "originality" as a very unhealthy thing. ** NO! Pay attention. Its not the "Originality" at issue here its the "Representation" or rather "Misrepresentation" of the items condition as original or not. A BIG difference. >> I have no desire to defraud anyone or make them unhappy in any other way. I don't enjoy any form of conflict except sports. **Usually no one does. As far as the courts are concerned however, ignorance of the law is no excuse. >>The idea that someone would be liable to civil or criminal legal sanction because they take the ordinary everyday (in our hobby, anyway) action of selling someone else a toy is sick. ** No, again, pay attention to what is being said. Its not the ordianry action of selling a toy thats the issue. Its the "Misrepresentation" of the item(s) as something it is not with the knowledge that it is in a condition other than the condition than that "Represented". That is sick, and very illegal. Quite a simple concept of civil law. >>How can one enjoy the hobby when it's under this kind of cloud? ** The only cloud here is the one pecieved and created by ones self. This hobby is quite exciting and enjoyable. >> Yet this is where this TCA kind of thinking inevitably leads. ** Again based on what facts?? The TCA thinking is that of all of its members, not this mystery individual or individuals you allege are out there making the train hobby miserable. >>> C. I have consistently tried my very best to make this a more fun hobby for everyone in it. My record speaks for itself. I have published over 40 articles, with no profit to myself, on how to make these wonderful trains run better, and have answered many hundreds of questions by letter and e-mail. There are no doubt hundreds of trains zooming around toy tracks today that would not be running were it not for my efforts. I have also published any information that came my way that would be of interest to the pure collectors. I have consistently published more and better information about safety than any other writer in the toy or model railroading fields BECAUSE I CARE ! ** Gee that sounds exactly like what TCA stands for, and what any good TCA member would do, and it is. I do the same thing every day. Your actions are noble and good. Your words denouncing TCA and what it stands for are hypocritical. >> And just as I try to warn guys to avoid a dangerous electric shock or a fire, I see this thinking about lawyers, fraud, and trying to make trains into investments as DANGEROUS, a threat to our happiness. **The only threat here is the one percieved by youself based on unfounded truths, and seemingly self formed opinions based on nonsense. >> 6. The other ripple effect of this emphasis on originality / trains as investments thinking is that the work of serious professional train restorers is disrespected, degraded, and undervalued, and the development of this art is slowed. ** I restore trains on occasion, if someone dislikes restored items and prefers original items only, it in no way is disrespectful of my work, and in no way undervalues my work or the piece I restored. There is no correlation what so ever. Some are better at it that others, thats the way it goes, their item simply may not be attractive to as many prospective buyers who do favor a restored item. This statement is groundless. >>> A. This situation will probably continue until we have a strong and effective guild of professional train restorers, hopefully allied with the American Guild of Conservators. This is probably about 10 years or so down the line. During that intervening time, a lot of white metal will buckle, a lot of paint will fade, a lot of lettering will peel off, and we will receive a better welcome than we would now. *** Well the last time I checked, this is exactly what TCA promotes. Whats the difference between guidelines made by professionals within TCA, and those in another organization called the American Guild of Conservators?? Its here and now, and it appears your accepting that this is needed and wanted, but simply not acknowledging it exists. >>> B So Charles, I don't want to swap trains with you. But if in a few years you wake up one morning and find that an area of one of the pieces in your favorite set has lost its paint, I would like to restore it for you. I would like that restoration to be perfect, because my efforts have been supported to the point where I could perfect them. I would like not to have to worry that my work will lead to legal action by anyone. And I'd like my work to get the respect, and the price, it deserves. ** I'm sure your efforts will be noble and you will do the best job possible. There is no reason to think, or no grounds to support any idea that Charles would bring legal action because of your work. That is where you are missing the darn point. The action of restoring is not the issue. For the 100th time... its the misrepresentation of the item as not restored after in fact it has been restored. That is the issue. If your work is truly good and liked by people admiring it, you will get the recognition you truly deserve, there is no reason that should not happen.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4899	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Digest Number 366

Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com Tom Jarcho says, >... I would like that restoration to be perfect, because my efforts >have been supported to the point where I could perfect them. I would like >not to have to worry that my work will lead to legal action by anyone. To be named part of a legal action today all you have to do is have your home broken into and have the thief hurt while on your property. While you are not even home! Then, knowing that the market demands to know if an item is refinished, you should mark your jobs as such, so there would be no question in the buyer's mind that the item is a refinished item. As an honest person doing top quality work, knowing the market demands to be made aware, I certainly would not want to sell refinished pieces to someone else who is then possibly going to pass them off as new original items. However, since the work is not identified, then why should I care? As a moral, law abiding person I would care. And being such, as well as being very proud of my work, I would certainly mark my work to identify it as such. I might even go so far as to furnish a certificate of my work and set up a log of the item, certificate and customer in my data base. >And I'd like my work to get the respect, and the price, it deserves. Tom, I don't feel anyone is suggesting your restoration work is not top notch or perfect. In a market that demands to know if an item is refinished because legitimate original new items still exist, the restorer and new items must co-exist rather than fight each other. As for the respect and price, that, along with the price of "original" stuff is determined by what the market will bear, based on availability and demand. My stuff that is peeling, I just leave it as is and run it on my decrepit road. I agree, I can not tell a Gilbert wheel set or truck side frame or motor brush or spring from another made by Gilbert. However, certain parts were made certain ways during certain periods. And you are right, I never buy anything without inspecting it to my satisfaction. If something looks too good to be true, I assume it is and will not buy it depending on how it is represented to me by the seller. My point is based on misrepresentation by a seller. If an item is refinished, it is. If an item is original it is. If one knows absolutely, to state otherwise is mis-representation. Let the buyer beware. A fool and his money soon part. Ask first, not later. Laws of misrepresentation apply to society as a whole regardless of the toy or non toy aspect. If you don't know if something is, then you must state so, not otherwise. TCA grading standards are a guide, not a law. Any quality standard based on appearance is somewhat subjective. The TCA has never set a price on anything. TCA quality standards were set a long time ago by the relatively small group of men who started the TCA, some did not have large collections and never achieved large collections. The standards were not set to keep a refinished item from achieving a price point. They were set to identify refinished items as refinished items. Toy collectors pay much higher prices for toy trains than do toy train collectors. Toy collectors generally seem to use good to represent what TCA standards would represent as excellent, but even toy appraisers do try to note if an item is refinished (train or not). People on eBay seem to pay higher prices for everything and love every minute of it. So, if I were to sell off my stuff today, I would not start at a train show or meet. Listen to Uncle David. He has his head screwed on right! (this is intended as a compliment to David). Charles Day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4900	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: VERY STRONG DISCUSSION

Hi, Just got back from Myrtle Beach and been catching up on all the postings. Sounds like some very strong opinions have been flying around while I've been gone. WOW! Maybe everyone needs to go to their corner and play with their trains for a while. Then when you are finished you can come back with a smile on your face and start again! I really missed you guys this week and a half. Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4901	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Fw: [Fwd: REM]

Several people asked me for info about REM. I do not know if they were S-Trains or S-Scale people. Mike Shea sent the answers to S-Scale. I am forwarding it to S-Trains. Ted Larson -------- Start, Message Copy ----- The manufacturer of these cars E. Hugh (Rem) Heck III. (He prefers to be called Rem.) He has color photos of his pre-production models available, as well as full dimensional data for his production stuff. He tells me that the cars have no specific prototype. They seem typical of early 20th century production to me. According to an email from him two days ago, actual production runs are currently in progress. You can reach him at remheck@.... There's also a snail mail address: Rem's Railroad Models, 536 E Perry Rd, Suite #6, Grand Blanc, MI 48439. - Mike Shea, Rochester, NY (USA) Member, National Association of S-Gaugers Rochester Area S-Gaugers Superintendent, Plattsburgh & Saranac Lake Railroad -------- End, Message Copy ------- ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4902	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Misc Diecast

For those of you in the Southeast USA, another source of inexpensive diecast is Big Lots "The Closeout Store". Was in there today and they had Racing Champions cars, a variety including the police series, for $1.99 ea, and ERTL 1/64 diecast tractor/trailer rigs for $9.99. In the store I was in the tractor/trailer's they had were McDonald's Large Fires, Corona Beer, Cracker Jack, and Hershey's Cookies 'N' Creme. All of these could be easily repainted, and several of trailers had stick on labels.... FWIW Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4903	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Lionel info FYI, positive post, no flack....

I got a flyer/catalog from JusTrains, an O supplier, lots of lionel, and various electronic and control items including the OTT E unit (for CAN motors folks!). But There was a short 'editorial' about Lionel pricing, talking about Christmas dealers stocking up laast year only to see prices drop 20-30% a month later and at York finding items selling below dealers cost just a month earlier. Reason given for what was called a 'purge' was- Deletion of non moving inventory at cost to allow Lionel to write off large capital gains made in the 98 record setting performance of Lionel stock, esp since Lionels parent company is an investment firm. And purging inventory so they could generate $ to provide a better product mix. Also interesting was the comment that evidently Lionels product is to be made at a Korean plant, MTH's Samhongsa, also Williams' chinese mfg being Sande Kan. According to the info in JusTrains (remember all O ga except as stated) Lionel has a 'new attitude, quality manufacturing, competitive pricing, and no EGO problems.' All FYI, for whatever its worth. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4904	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Re: Seaboard coaler

I also have a coal loader whose bucket occasionally (infrequently) doesn't snap shut well and then dribbles coal during the lift. If you find out what to do for this let us know. BTW, I now use ho gauge coarse black cinders for coal and it works better, particularly the above problem is now rare and also the emptying chute works better. LEAHY RUTH A wrote: > > From: LEAHY RUTH A <Ruth.Leahy@...> > > I have a seaboard coaler that now runs due to the suggestions & assistance > of many of you in the list. However, I am still having one problem. The > clam shell does not always close when the red button (2 button operation) > is pushed. This is an inconsistent problem, since most of the time it > operates. Is this in the switch? Suggestions appreciated. > > Mike > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Free Games & Cash Prizes! > Gamesville - The World's Biggest & Best Game Show Site! > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/gamesville2 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4905	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 9/11/1999
Subject: Some notes on increasing S gauge participation.

S gaugers, We are a diverse group of people that grew from a small start. I heard somewhere that 1:64 started with Cleveland models sometime during the early to mid 30s. A.C. Gilbert picked up on it building O gauge trains to S gauge standards. My father owned two of these O-S trains, and I can tell you that they were the forerunners of the postwar S gauge offereings. I have an O gauge Royal Blue which, except for the wheels and the fact that the O gauge Royal Blue used yellow instead of white lettering, is virtually indistinguishable from its S gauge counterpart. What we need now is a good, inexpensive S gauge train set that people can buy for their kids and not require them to re-mortaging the house. If it is tinplate all well and good. This is probably the least expensive way to start. Train sets that cost $500 or more will not meet that criterion. When I was a kid buying model stuff a 300 class Reading Atlantic cost $12.95. At a cost of $15 times that figure we are looking at a train that csts about $200. The future of S gauge is locked in the kids coming up now. Availability of S gauge at a reasonable cost will bring new enthusiasts to the hobby. Just as now, some will be attracted to S scale while others will stay with the tinplate trains. But if there is to be a future in S gauge, then someone will need to get the kids started now. These are just a few notes off the top of my head. W. Thomas Boussum http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/3703

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4906	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Sunset

>From: Bill Banta <billbwks@...> > >Hmmm, Compared to Sunset I am relatively new to manufacturing...The one >thing I learned early on is that one advertisement will never, I repeat >never ever garner enough sales for any one product to be fully >successful. It just don't work! And only advertising once per magazine >and waiting for the dam to bust, well you may as well toss your money in >the toilet or at a minimum expect to be looking at that product on your >shelf for a very long time. I remember running into the owner of Korber at a train show. He had a few of his S-scale engine houses among all the HO and O kits he makes. I mentioned that I already had one and wondered why he didn't have his other S offering, an ice house there. He angrily said that if I owned an engine house, I was one of the SIX who did and that he pulled the plug of the ice house kit entirely. I scratched my head and left. But now I remember that the only advertisement I ever saw was the half-page ad Korber took in (I believe) one S-gaugian. Some manufacturers never learn Bill's simple lesson!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4907	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Re: DC, etc

The past few nights I have been reading through copies of the S-GAUGE HERALD, Volume 1 (1960-61). Found some interesting reading there! (1) A few weeks back, there was a thread going through this list about the difference between AC and DC armatures in AF trains. Here's a snippit from an AC-DC article in the April, 1961 SGH (Remember--- AF was still in production then !!!)----- "Some of you might remember that AF once made their own DC locos. These DC locos had the same armature as their AC counterparts, the field being the only difference. ............all you need to do is to remove the wound field on your motor, and replace it with"....the DC magnet field. "You can use the same armature." Now, I <still> maintain there is a difference in appearance.....As I stated previously (and Tom J confirmed), the DC armatures appear to have smooth, polished edges, unlike AC ones. But it would appear from the above that they are not operationally different. ????? (2) A review was included of 1/60 -scale vehicles available at the time, by the brand-name "Realtoys" or "Tinytoys". Realtoys were apparently metal, and included many different cars and trucks of the 50s and 60s. Tinytoys were plastic, and seem to have been more construction equipment-oriented. Anybody know anything more about these today??? Guess it's worth keeping an eye open at flea mkts and toy shows! (3) Finally, a deja-vu article from the June, 1961, SGH reviewed the "New American Flyer Line", for fall, 1961. A snippet: "AF has introduced two new locos.......the "Casey Jones".............It is a crude plastic thing.............The other loco is an EMD something or other........a crude conglomeration of F-3, F-7, or F-9............ If it's toys you want, look to AF. If it's scale you want, look elsewhere........" Some topics of conversation haven't changed in 40 years !! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4908	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: The perils of "advertising"

Greetings, As someone who has read the past few posting on Sunset and others who rely on one ad in S-gaugian or other publications. I have returned to toy trains after many years, I have found vendors through internet searches and word of mouth on this listserve. I have had S-gauge since 1965 by where I live NO ONE has sold S-Gaugian since the mid 1970's, I found some old copies that I bought at a local hobby store in 1976 when I was in HS and stored away until last week. Don't assume that one ad in an obscure magazine (sorry) will do the job. Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4909	From: Gary.L.Ippolito@xxxx.xxx.xxxx	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Lackawanna Heavyweights Wanted

Hi Guys, If anyone is looking to part with a five-car set of American Models Heavyweights in the Lackawanna scheme, please let me know. If I remember correctly, it was a paint scheme that was offered by S Helper Service when the heavyweights first came out. Scale or Hirail is not important. Please be sure to contact me directly rather than posting to the list. Thank you, Gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4910	From: Gary.L.Ippolito@xxxx.xxx.xxxx	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Lackawanna Heavyweights Wanted

Hi Guys, If anyone is looking to part with a five-car set of American Models Heavyweights in the Lackawanna scheme, please let me know. If I remember correctly, it was a paint scheme that was offered by S Helper Service when the heavyweights first came out. Scale or Hirail is not important. Please be sure to contact me directly rather than posting to the list. Thank you, Gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4911	From: J. Row	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: More on Authenticity of Originality

Boy! Talk about lots of words! Let's face reality friend! Willful misrepresentation is lying and my dad taught me not to. Yours probably did too! What you may not know (and can't know) is what happened to a toy mom stepped on 50 years ago and dad did a fine job of repair/restoration! Get real, please! Yes, I know, I can delete various topics based on the subject line and not waste my time with those who want to be collectors but who don't want to become expert enough at telling the difference between "never was anyone's toy" and a real, "played with" toy! I have a few of the former and like 'em. I know what their history is because their history is short and I was the orignal purchaser. I have some other look alikes in "really, really good condition" (not a TCA recognized terminaology for you non-members)and I don't know their history. Don't even remember from whom I purchased them or what they said about them when I made the purchase. I bought 'em 'cause I liked 'em! If I should want to sell 'em - look out, because my ignorance may be passed on with the "toy" - not as a lie but as I only tell that which I know! I do pass on what I know and even what I suspect with an appropriate disclaimer. I like doing business that way but I may change my mind! By George, the US treasury knows how to tell a counterfit and that helps to make their bogus money work for us (to some extent anyway). I really don't know how to tell so I just slide into the system and use the money. But trains are not money to most of us! They are toys or investments, or decorations of our walls, etc. Collectors of what were never toys (but were intended to be toys) better know how to tell the difference too but don't get into my way and expect me to follow suit! And - don't threaten me with modern technology and the bickerings of attorneys whom you may be able to afford but I can't and don't I want to afford. That is not part of my fun! It may be yours and you are entitled to it but warn me up front so I can turn and run. If you can't tell and don't know how to tell if a piece is restored, repaired, or if it's original, then only you are to blame if you get "taken" by not becoming an expert in your chosen field of collecting pristene toys (most of which were not pristene when they were made, packaged, shipped, set out on display, etc.). Don't expect me to be your hired expert. I'm only a merchant in such a transaction. I've been a member of TCA for a few years (about 17) now and I appreciate a standard by which someone else can judge for me if I buy his stuff sight unseen. But I do get upset by those who want me to be "THEIR EXPERT" at knowing a complete 10, 20, 30, or even a 50, or 75 year history. I don't lie on purpose but I'm afraid I have misrepresented at least something, at sometime, at least once, in ignorance. If you purchased it in ignorance, then we are close to even! Had a friend with a restored Model A Postal truck that I once craweled under to have a look at. Would you believe it? There was no sticker on the bottom saying restored! Why? It wasn't necessary. Anyone who knows vehicles knew it was restored or else was willing to be suckered in to thinking it was original. When it looks better than original, it probably is not original. It may be worthless to you but it might be worth more, a lot more, to me. By the way, the owner/restorer was national president of TCA just a few years ago and I can tell you he tended to agree with Tom J. and me, and lots of others. I respect your disagreement with my view but don't be suckered into thinking your's is the only viable viewpoint and the rest of us are the nuts. If you aren't sure, don't pay the "sucker price". If you get "sucked" in and it is orginal then you win, if not, and you paid too much for a repaired (as opposed to maintained) item, you lose. Call it a gamble - many like to gamble. Some do it in Las Vegas, some in Central City or Cripple Creek, Colorado, some in New Jersey, and some prefer to do it at York, or on E-Bay, etc. SO - don't hold my feet to the fire with your hired goons, experts, mass spectrometers, color analyzers, plastics chemists, and attorneys so you can be sure I've done MY home work. Do it, if you wish, to be sure you have done or are doing yours! I may not have done my home work and may not intend to. When I find a piece similar to one I already have (but better in my eyes), I may sell my orginal treasure and keep the newer find for what ever reasons I may have. I'm not duty bound to do any homework or guarantee anything to you. If you ask me to make any such guarantee, you are relying on a lot of stuff you have no control over. Items such as my integrety, my expert knowledge (of which I am endowed with very little), my ability to tell if the person from whom I purchased the item was honest or knowledgeable, my memory, etc. etc. You better become the expert if you want "guaranteed authenticiy of originality". Putting a sticker on the bottom of my treasured "heavy weight" to protect your investment in case you like it and want to buy it. I don't wnat stickers on my rolling stock or accessories. I don't like stickers on my cars that I drive or on my trains that I play with. I don't want stickers on my stuff if I offer it for sale because it it doesn't sell, I will keep it without a sticker! What a "crock" from my point of view but what a "reality" from yours. I understand! But, I am not part of your authenticator team and can only be of assistance when my memory, my knowledge, my honesty, etc. allow. Don't like my attitude? Don't buy from me! Not a problem because at present I have nothing for sale!! In summary, most of the value of certifiable, original, "perfect", "NMIB" collectables is in the ability of the seller to certify to the buyer authenticity, purity, originality, taste, bouquet, prior owner, vintage, etc. etc. I'm not one of those who can do this and neither are most of anyone else who reads this. So why attempt to force me to become what you may (or may not) be just so you can become a wanna be "expert collector" and leave your heirs wealthy or maybe just inheriters of a bunch of toys they have to dispose of! Go ahead, become the "expert". Look out - I'm honest but suffer from "long term memory loss" as well as "long term loss of interest" in ...... I repeat, I will not willfully lie to you. However, I will not spend a lot of time and effort to insure that the toy was never a "toy"! If you waded through this - you will not have to do it again for me, cause I have nothing to add - unless chided, of course! Jim Row

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4912	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Digest Number 368

Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com W.Thomas Boussmun says, >meet that criterion. When I was a kid buying model stuff a 300 class >Reading Atlantic cost $12.95. At a cost of $15 times that figure we are >looking at a train that csts about $200. The future of S gauge is locked >in the kids coming up now. Availability of S gauge at a reasonable cost >will bring new enthusiasts to the hobby. Just as now, some will be >attracted to S scale while < Thomas, What was your father's hourly wage during this $12.95 era? About this same time, I was making less than $2.00 a week delivering a small paper route and saved almost every penny to buy me first AF train. Only five years before that, a loaf of bread was twelve cents, a P-40 was around $48,000 and a CG-4A glider was $14,000 to $1,700,000.00 depending on which manufacturer produced it! This morning an article in the newspaper says that the income of children under 13 has tripled since 1990 and they spent over $25 million last year and at the same time influenced the spending of over @200 million by their parents. How much should a new $12.95 loco sell for today? :-) charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4913	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, September 12, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4914	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: coal loader

From experience with my 785. Try it without the button involved - - just the wires (this was easy for me because the prevoius owner had cut it free from the unit). If all is well, then likely the button. If not, then the bucket mechanism or solenoid are the problem. If OK, open the button. Under the red button, make contact (with alligator leads) between the first two copper tongues. That should close the bucket. Then push the third tongue against them, that should start the closed bucket up and then into the housing. I had to tweak these tongues under the red button until I got two clearly different actions - - half way down the bucket shuts, down completely it heads home. PS Has anyone tried RF Giardinia's plastic coal? Does it work well with AF loaders? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4915	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: All Aboard Instructions

I purchased four curved All Aboard panels at a train show today. Does anyone have a copy of the instructions on how the panels are supposed to be assembled, wired, etc? -Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4916	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: AMERICAN FLYER 18 B

Hello, Recently I picked up an 18b transformer...I noticed after about 25 minutes of use the left side throttle area gets warm around the bakelite....the other side does not feel warm....is this a normal circumstance for this?....I like to add I do not smell anything burning...and it seems to function ok...except the normal plate hum...I appreciate your thoughts.....thanks in advance..Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4917	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/12/1999
Subject: Re: All Aboard Instructions

Roy, the panels, if memory serves me correctly, were intended to be held together by the old style track clips clipped to the lips of the base edges after the sections are pushed together. Each track section as it meets of course should have the track pins installed as usual. One of the panels should have been pre wired from the factory. If there are no obvious wires, you may be able to detect where they were attached at one time. You can solder new leads on and run them down thru the hole in the base. Hope this helps... enjoy.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4918	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: 3rd RAIL MAKES SENSE

Gentlemen and Ladies, Place your order or let it rest in peace. Glenn Scott Mann wrote: Dear Glen, There are a lot of misconceptions going on out there. First, we announced the Zephyr through John Foley about a year ago and he passed out literature at several large S guage meets. Also,we have had it on our website for all to see for about a year as well. The ads in CTT and S-Gaugian were almost ignored, so Mort and I (Father and Son) who work together on these projects everyday, decided that we are spending resources and money on an area that is a tough sell. There are plenty of other markets that are traditionally less expensive to sell trains in. If we don't have sufficient reservations to pay for production we will not produce. After 25 years in the business we have a process down for selecting what projects to do and what not to do. If we are to produce models for S- Scale we require quantities of 250-300, otherwise production costs will out strip what modelers are willing to pay. It is simple economics. We have found that multiple ads become less and less effective. That is our experience. We appreciate the input and will hold off our decision until November whether to produce this model or not. If S-Gaugers can ralley support for this project then we will gladly build it. Best Regards, Scott Mann - VP Sunset Models.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4919	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: The 'F' word in trains... (long post)

My 'take' on the current S flap or S in general, I take all responsibility for the contents---now that U R all back from the weekend! Nobody puts the time and energy into something without 'caring'. I care, U care, Roy cares, Ron cares , Chuck cares, Dave etc etc. The trubble is, like fords vs chebby, original vs. resto-rod, there is nothing like 'my way'. Not knowing the individuals on this list but able to glean some insight into them and the S lifestyle, most of you folks are middle, more likely upper middle, class folks with adequate time and money to spend on your interest. In a larger vein, much of the U.S. population would envy us? BUT We gotta quibble, U stomped on my way, my caring. I find certain retired folks, often feel sorta out of sorts and stomped on when someone goes against their mindset? Just ask their wife...? Note I did not say these folks are wierd or stupid or whatever, its due to their conditioning? And many of us, Hey we built a Railroad Empire, have that in us too even if we were not in the 6 figure income area? Anyway- If S is gonna get its act together, S gotta work together. And as a newby I really find a lot of holes in S- no starter stuff, lack of a REAL information site, lack of repair info, lack of modern replacement parts, etc. and with another convention coming up, I wonder, what would S be like IF, if, IFFFFFF- The NASG site had information on repair rather than just 'joining'? I didnt have to browse 12 sites to find info on smoke repair? Or wiring diagrams for loco or accessories? Or search for literally months to find there ARE modern solid state reverse unit replacements available, and FINALLY find their sites. But not the price of a used loco like one of the two I found. Why arent there dropin/snapin DC motor/gear assemblys to replace ageing AC motors, or even newer AC motors? And not at $60 a pop. Where are the upgrade kits for those slovenly stamped choo choo crosshead guides? No plans for kitbashed AF stuff into switchers? How the HELL does one attempt to make sense of a half dozen or more track systems, each different in height, joiners, none with uncouplers, let alone coupler options???? (and we thought the IBM/MAC OS feud was bad some 5-10 years ago). No wonder the S Module standards require a transition piece.... And how can these folks make a profit in having every mfg. have a different system? New loco? Zephyr? Hmmmmm. I gotta short line, VERY short. Where are the Mikados or Praries? (Ron, R U reading this?) Does the above sound like heresy? Remember U guys are THE FAITHFUL. A number of U R active in NASG. Again- WHERE is the information on their site? Do they REALLY wanna foster the hobby? WHY doesn't the newby go THERE first for info and not to Paul Yorkes fine web pages... Cant NASG copy the entire contents of that out of print fixit guide and have it available? (however like the one just FS on eBay its dated about 1950, leaving out the late stuff) Or does Greenberg have the copyright rights? You all have read my frustration in resurrecting one or two Atlantics. And track selection. And transformer questions. and on and on. As promised, I will now use the 'F' word- Fun most of U will say, but I will say Frustration. S has been an exercise in Frustration of lack of info, modern replacements for ancient equipment, and availability of a reasonably priced out of the box reliable steam loco. I luved my 322 Hudson in the early 50's but us starters need a 2-6-0 and/or 4-4-2 that will run out of the box. And reverse everytime. And run slow in additon to 80 mph. And if we wanna detail it LATER appropriate upgrade kits for it. Do you folks have ANY idea how wonderful it is to run my 25 year old HO stuff (that has sat for 20 yrs) , a Roundhouse 060 saddletank, and an Atlantic with scratchbuilt oil tender? And running it on 10c. a piece used brass snaptrack bought Jan 1 99 at a train meet, along with a $30 used Momentum II or somesuch power pac. The stuff starts, stops, runs slow, reverses when I want it.... Compared to the Flyer stuff I have been working with its a dream. NOW PUT THE FOLLOWING IN CAPS- If I was not able to find the S List I woulda tossed this S stuff months ago and said H.O. - yo! Enough dealing with old stuff. New blood? Pardon the redundancy, but IMHO all the sales pitches in the world at events wont overcome the lack of repair and detailed info and aged condition of Flyer stuff. Those reverse units only functioned 90% of the time WHEN NEW. Who in their right mind would go into S where one bases their train hobby on 50 year old stuff that is a continual maintenance problem or must pay $200 to $800 for new locomotion, let alone cars..... When there is O and HO full of price range, availability, publications, and on and on. Its a no brainer? i.e. no contest. They can even start on QVC or HSN .... Again- I thank those who responded to my pleas for help over the last months, most were quite helpful. You are the backbone of S, you will make it survive- not another meeting, not another event, tho the event is fine for fellowship. As of this writing I will still be on the list, trying to stay updated and informed, even cluttering up the airways with a post of some sort. And wondering why S cant get it all together. But seems like I remember its always been this way!!??!! Of course, I wish you all Rotsa Ruck L. P.S- I trust ALL you folks are building your layouts or addition to same in a modular fashion, be it to the NASG modular or some other modular standard. Cause if U dont, your heirs will be unable to easily move your layout into their basement or family room. Since I still have my 2 24 x 48" switching modules I made about 1974.... yes I will make mine modular! Its a no brainer too....! Be it S or HO ho ho. Someday maybe some old guy wearing a black hat and greasy herringbone coveralls walks into the Marriot and its year 2005 S annual convention carrying two long modules- you can say 'It gotta be Lars...! He finally got his Atlantic runnin! ' And yes, this IS a serious post.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4920	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Digest Number 369

Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com Jim Row says, >Boy! Talk about lots of words! Yes, you did. "... I'm only a merchant in such a transaction. ..." Not so. Merchants aren't exempt because they are merchants. "... If you purchased it in ignorance, then we are close to even! ..." Not so. The seller is responsible for how s/he represents her/is items. "... Had a friend with a restored Model A Postal truck ... " Not so. Automobile collection standards have nothing to do with toy trains. "... If you aren't sure, don't pay the "sucker price. ..." Agreed, but what the "suckee" tells the sucker he knows or does not know about the piece can not be misrepresentation. "... If you get "sucked" in and it is orginal then you win, if not, and you paid too much for a repaired (as opposed to maintained) item, ..." Not so, if the "suckee" misrepresented the item to the sucker. "... better become the expert if you want "guaranteed authenticiy of originality". Not so. The seller is assumed to be knowledgeable about his product. "... Don't like my attitude? Although a bit harsh, you are you. You too seem to be ignoring or missing the definition of misrepresentation. "... - unless chided, of course! If you consider this chiding, don't fret, I will not return until Saturday. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4921	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: The Great Debate!

Howdy all, One disadvantage of using a corporate account is having to plow through the weekend messages before starting work, so please bear with me. Seems like it hasn't been a quite weekend in Lake Woebegone. With regards to the collectable/repro/restoration debate: We all collect train for various reasons, and all of them are correct. Some folks want original and nothing else, others may be quite satified with a restoration or reproduction. It is all a matter of point of view. Personally, my view is those few people who count their collections like Ebeneezer Scrooge counting his money are the saddest people of all. But that's my opinion, I'm sure such people would look at me a looser, unfamiliar with the profits that could be realized in the trafficking of toy trains. Monitarily, a train collection is only worth what another person is willing to pay for it. I view my train collections as a source of pleasure, not of profit. When collecting Lionel O (postwar, MPC & LTI) gauge ceased to be fun, I sold that collection and haven't looked back. I figure I just aboutbroke even, and used some of the money to by some Flyer and European HO. Yes, I have other train interests outside of S gauge. Time for a little tale: One of my all-time favorite locomotives is the New Haven EP-5. (Little Joe to the Lionel folks.) Return with us now to those thrilling days of yesteryear...the early 80's. An original Lionel from 1957 at the time was going for much more than I was willing to pay, when I could find one. I finally located one in very poor but operational condition. I bought a repro body, reconditioned (note: not restored) the frame and drive, added missing parts from contemporary Lionel stock, including an electronic horn. If that made me an EVIL person in the O Gauge world, so be it. The fella that eventually bought it off me knows its origins, and is likewise happy with it. I think I made a buck profit, but who's counting. However, it was before I sold it, one of my favorites, until... LTI reintroduced the American Flyer EP-5's. I felt the original 499's were priced too high for my blood so I jumped when Lionel reintroduced them. Bought two over time for less than I could have bought a Flyer original. Contrary to most LTI/Flyer, these run real good. Don't know how they slipped through Lionel Quality Control... My only complaint with these is the lettering is wrong on one side, the 'New Haven' road name should be towards the engineers door on both sides. I just look at the side with the lettering correctly oriented. But, I am still happy with them. However... MTH came out with their Premiere EP-5. Bought one. Wow. Smooth runner, sound, lettering in the right place, all the bells and whistles. Be better if it was 'S'. My new favorite. I guess the moral of this story is that train collecting is one of those "Pursuit of Happiness" deals. If I can find what I'm looking for at what I perceive a fair price, I will buy it. With few exceptions, I'd rather have a quality reproduction or restored unit than a beat up original. And, if a representation of what I like is available elsewhere, likewise with the quality I expect at a perceived fair price, I'll buy it. When it ceases to give me pleasure, I'll sell it. Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4922	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: coal loader

Other things (in addition to normal motor maintenance, lubrication, and proper stringing) that I found helped my 785 run well. 1) Be sure the clutch (wooden spool and screw-tightened collar) on the upper shaft is dry (no oil or grease inside the clutch or on the shaft) and the clutch is adjusted properly - -lifts steadily, but slips when all the string has been wound on the spool (i.e. the bucket is all the way back in the housing). 2) While you're at it, remove the sheet metal guard from around the spool. As far as I can tell that was there for safety, but without it the unit runs better - - less drag on the line (travels over the roller only) and less wear on the string. 3) Ensure the top-shaft assembly has some play back and forth between the metal plates that hold it in place. On mine, the plates were actually pressing in creating resistance. By gently pulling them outward I was able to create just a little bit of play. The unit ran easier, cooler, and faster after that. Especially on the return cycle, when the motor is sharing power with the closed bucket solenoid, and lifting the bucket with its load. 4) Be sure the lower shaft also has just a little play and its gear lines up well with that of the upper shaft. Placement of the collar on the lower shaft determines the amount of play.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4923	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Geez, calm down!

Friends: How easy it is to forget that there is a big difference between OUR world and THE world. In our world, the big news is that Sunset/Third Rail may drop the Zephyr and with it, their stab into S-gauge. In the real world, the leader of all free people just pardoned some terrorists as a political ploy and the press fodder for the running of the next presidential election is afoot. In our world, opinions are running hot about whether or not trains should be repainted, and if they are, does it destroy their value. And what is that value measured in anyway: dollars or play fun? In the real world, the pretty much ho-hum opinion is that we are a bunch of old men who play with children's toys. Since we are connected to our inner children in this way, now might be a good time to mention the book: "Everything I Ever Needed to Know I Learned in Kindergarten." I won't quote, I'll reflect instead on its intent. Lying to someone to get personal gain is a bad thing. Not telling someone a truth they need to know is the same as lying. Misrepresenting yourself or something you are selling is a form of lying. Don't get into convoluted definitions of what constitutes fraud in a legal sense. We already know that the president doesn't believe that oral favors count as sex (which means I would have to revise the story of how old I was when I first got any. ) Let's go for the simple, honest definitions; the ones where you and I both know what constitutes the truth. Here's another basic kindergarten premise; my things belong to me and your things belong to you and we have to repect that. There simply are no hard and fast rules about who can do what to what except this one: if it is your Fox's Department Store boxcar, you can paint it black and letter "MY R.R." on the side in yellow crayon, and there is nothing anybody can do about it. Which brings us to the item about being selfish, also covered at the pre-school level. The my stuff/your stuff concept notwithstanding, we, us, here at the end of the 20th. Century, are the guardians, the stewards, of some of the treasures of our era. Some of us own trains that go back to the beginning of this century. Most of us have collections spanning the last half century. Stuff like this does not just belong to us. It is a representation of a small corner of our history. Somebody else has the paintings, still others have control of the sculpture. The architecture and the written word and the recorded voice and the music all have their curators. Painting a Fox Box black is an act of vandalism, even if it is yours. It is only yours by virtue of a set of circumstances leading to a happenstance. There IS an implied responsibility for the treasures under your care. Let us not play with the words. Plain 600 series American Flyer yellow boxcars and red cabooses and green T&P gondolas can be cut up, modified, combined, painted, destroyed. So can many other products ground out of the A.C. Gilbert plant. The answer lies in what you already know. If you touch up the white stripe on a 336 Northern with the 2 position reverse-under-cab, and then sell it, you've just got to let the buyer know. That is a simple courtesy, and although it may not qualify for prosecution under the RICO statute, it is still fraud in your heart. If you have a Fox set or a White's set, even heavily played, you know better than to take a paint brush to it. It's a museum piece, and if you are not a curator but rather, an operator, then this piece has reached your hands due to happenstance. Look at it, enjoy it a little while, but respect what it is and pass it on to those who are the curators. That is the duty that comes with being a part of the great combined hobby of train collecting and operating. You will be rewarded financially or with great trades for what you really want, and you will know that you did the right thing and shared. If you are ever tempted to run a mint rarity or paint something that in your heart you know you should not, think of another great railroad icon, New York's Pennsylvania Station. I should not even write it in the possessive like that because New York City proved to the world that it did not deserve to have something so wonderful in it's possession. The destruction, after 54 years, of a building intended to stand 500 years before needing structural repairs, is an act of stewardship infamy. It was done for short term profit with no regard for the history of a great people. Read about it, it is a cautionary tale of what NOT to do to yourself and to others. As to the great wordy bellowing seen in this space of late, there is no reason to throw a tantrum over Sunset Models ills resulting from their foray into S-Gauge. Finger pointing and blaming are also covered in the Kindergarten primer. Yes, I think that these good folks have miscalculated, but if we ever want them to try again, maybe we shouldn't punch them in the nose! Here's a nutty idea. Since we're the guys who buy this stuff, why don't we go to the manufacturers with a list we've compiled of the stuff most likely to sell out and tell them, in advance, almost exactly how many we think they will sell . . .to us. When you lower the basket, even little kids can slam-dunk! After a little success, then they can start dabbling in odder pieces, like the Zephyr. By that time, they will at least be able to differentiate between "Nobody wants to buy this piece" and "There's nobody in S-Gauge buying any pieces". One good comment recently also used a sports analogy about new manufacturers not having to hit a home run the first time up. Unfortunately, with the investment they make in production, they kinda do have to be instantaneously successful. But that's why a simple piece with parts that can convert it to another piece, both of which have been seen on most of America's railroads since the steam era, is the ideal choice. Sell 2 or more easy to construct models for practically the price of developing one, and sell them to the widest market possible. It is our responsibility to take this thinking to the manufacturers if we want to survive. We cannot assume that they will know what to make and when. If we think so, then we are trusting our fates to the powers that be. We are too small for that. We have personal relationships with our manufacturers. Some of them are reading this right now. Hi, Don Thompson! I love your caboose, but I only have one right now. It is a little pricey, and it is a caboose after all (only one to a train). It's probably doing well in sales, but imagine we are back a few years and you led with a $70 caboose. Oops! Maybe not such a good idea. Of course, now that you've given us all these long freight trains, we need the damn things! Besides, now we know you and like doing business with you and we buy your stuff, so there is a value added component, too. But in the beginning, you needed the tugboat of American Models to push you out into the mainstream. Russ Downs started out by redecorating Rex and Flyer gons and flats and putting Ace trucks on them, long before he made the jump into all those tankers. Ron Bashista put all his own sweat and sleeptime into personally casting all his original stuff. That's a lot of dedication. I don't think that we should expect this kind of sweat and tears from a fat and comfortable O-gauge company that is dabbling in an attempt to test the market of S all on it's own. Their experience comes from a modeling world that is glutted with variety. They don't know S. THE World: terrorists, elections, bombings, ugliness and almost no trains (at least not like the old days). OUR world: all trains, nice folks being kind to each other and sharing information. Of course you like it better here! Let's just try to keep it that way and remember what we learned even before the 3 R's. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4924	From: michael prell	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: One Door Closes

Just about eleven years ago I was re-introduced to the Wonderful World of Toy Trains at the annual Train Show held in Clayton, New York. Since then, this event has, for me, ushered in the Fall season in a very enjoyable way. Back then I was fortunate to have happened across an S-Gauge Starter set put together by the members of the Central New York S-Gauge Association. From there I've managed to add quite a few nice pieces to my kingdom of the rails. This Saturday was no exception. It has also made me a true believer in two philosophies: Right Time/Right Place & You Snooze, You Loose. To make it short, I was told that a certain friend of mine was selling some "Flyer stuff" and that I might want to check it out. The advice was accurate and more to the point, benificial! What I came across was a set that included a nice little 302 puffer with the following cars; 630, 631, 632, 633, and a 634. Also a search light car and a log carrier, both with the markings C&N WRY 42597. Also track and a cross-over plus a set of right of way signes and a Model 8B transformer. The price was a good one. Anyone want to take a guess? The point to all of this is not to gloat. The point is that sometimes the Train Gods do smile and that history does repeat itself. The former owner can rest assured that his set now has a good home with lots of company. Aint Life Beautiful? There was one more item which I have put in a frame. It was the manual that came with the set. The name of the young fella appeares written in pencil across the top and gives his age at the time as 9&1/2 years old. If only that manual could talk, but then again, I think that it already has. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4925	From: Andy McBride	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: One Door Closes

>From: michael prell <mlprell@...> > >. . . The former owner can rest assured that his set now has a good >home with lots of company. Aint Life Beautiful? There was one more >item which I have put in a frame. It was the manual that came with the >set. The name of the young fella appeares written in pencil across the >top and gives his age at the time as 9&1/2 years old. If only that >manual could talk, but then again, I think that it already has. Great post Michael. I have many of the same feelings when I'm playing with my Flyer. I often look at my collection and wonder what grand dramas have played out in their company. Was that nine year old playing with the train while his Dad fought in Korea? Was he giving the engine a tune-up while watching the first moon landing? Did he hear the Beatles for the first time over the patented Gilbert Choo-Choo? Regardless I like to look around my Flyer layout and think that somehow I've made thing right by giving those old toys a home. Anybody else out there feel the same way? Andy McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4926	From: ALLAN V EISENHAUR	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: AF layout

Hi Does any remember the post about the AF layout in Germany, built by US Serviceman after the War. Need locationE for a friend who is going to Germany. Also does anyone have any info or the manual for a TROLLER TAC 2001 twin ac power pack. Thanks AL ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4927	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: digest 365-trains 16

I basically said that if someone could come up with some hard information that would add to the discussion I would appreciate it, even if it proved me wrong. No one has done that yet. I prefer to think of the phenomena I have observed as my observations. They are not theoretical -- they are practical. They seem to have made you so angry and defensive that you didn't read what I and others wrote. Sorry about that. My views on the TCA were posted on 2-21-99 on s-list. Many informed comments followed. They must be in the archives -- no need to get into it all again. What was said then is just as true now. My comments received a lot of favorable responses as you will see if you look it up. Discontent with the TCA, their standards, and the extreme emphasis on seriousness and original-ness is widespread. It is obvious that this stuff distorts and threatens the hobby in various ways, as I described.and many people have commented on s-list in that sense. Sorry you didn't see the postings. Most people don't want to put a TCA sticker on a piece just to satisfy some standard they don't observe in their own practice of the hobby, to summarize what Jim said. You say original is original, touched up is touched up, restored is restored, EXCEPT FOR A FEW SMALL ITEMS. Well, there you go. I said that people will disagree, and they will, as to which "few small items" are permissible and which not. It is tough to come up with rules that bring together and work for people with such divergent views. Look at the TCA grading system -- it is universally acknowledged to be problematic. You say that someone is guilty of misrepresentation if they fail to tell the buyer that a piece is touched up whether they ask or not. First, it is often almost impossible to tell, and second, not that many people really care. So why should your extreme standards and obsessions be the rule when toy trains are exchanged? People mostly want to know if a piece looks nice and works well. An item can have a high TCA grading and not satisfy either of these requirements, merely because it's "all original". So who's zooming who? Your views of society and the legislative process are not quite accurate. A great deal of legistation enacted today is initiated by powerful and narrow special interests, not by widespread social consensus. They make the rules that they want to follow, and everybody else is stuck with them. The same is true in the toy train microcosm. I hope we are about coming to the end of this discussion. I did not expect to convince all those with strongly held views opposed to mine. I did want to lay out my ideas for those who possibly never thought about this stuff much before, and I wanted to speak up for those who agree with me but don't have an organization that reflects our views. Nevertheless, in spite of divergence and acrimony, the things we have in common are much greater and more important than our disagreements. We all love our Flyer trains deeply, and I am delighted to be linked to you by s-list. Even if we don't see eye to eye about some things, the fact that we are now linked together and talking things out, sharing information, and chatting up a storm, makes us all stronger and makes the hobby more fun. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4928	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: Southwinds

They will soon. I expect to have it up by the first week of October. In the meantime if you have any questions, email me. My computer got zapped by lightning in June. I am waiting for my new one which should come "Friday," at least that's what they tell me every Monday. I currently can only access email. I cannot save any documents that I work on so I must wait....... John Craft

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4929	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: The perils of "advertising"

In a message dated 9/12/99 11:04:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jt12313@... writes: << Don't assume that one ad in an obscure magazine (sorry) will do the job. >> 1. How many scale people read the S Gaugian? 20? John Craft

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4930	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: Southwinds

<<<< Please include part of the message you are responding to in your answer..... Never got a message from S-Trains named Southwinds, so your answer does not make any sense. >>>>> Good point my previous message was regarding a soon to be Southwind Models web site. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4931	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: digest 365-trains 16

Well Tom lets not go there OK, this is getting old, your twisted meaningless argument is old, and we're getting irritated with being misquoted and having our help, and commetary given in good faith, being twisted into your bullshit. You twisted peoples views, their ideas, their beliefs, and their help in response to your own request for it, into something that was not said or intended. All so it will fit some wild euphoric conception of what you think the world should be like according to Tom. We have read all of these posts, past posts, and published writings. No one is agreeing with you, and your agenda except yourself and Jim, and thats fine if thats what he wants to do. No one else however is agreeing or impressed. I was more than willing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you misunderstood something that was said somewhere along the line. Its obvious your just a stubborn angry man who doesn't like loosing an argument, or having their own way above all else. Too damn bad, get over it. We hold no grudges or hard feelings towards anyone here, it wastes too much energy that can be expended on more worthy persuits. It is indeed time for this string to die. Well... we finally agree on something.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4932	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: One Door Closes

Hi All! Neat posts from Michael and Andy. I have at least five trains in my possesion that I know the stories--because either I, or my relatives had them! (I freely admit to cleaning out my cousins when I was in eigth grade, they were older, and lost interest in such toys!) I had hoped to be asked to give one particular set back, but a brain tumor ended a life too early, so I still have that cousin's set. But I freely admit that today's train playing has a lot to do with memories, or even daydreams of "someday I'd like to..." during some boring time in grade school. It's good to hear that the great train fairy still delivers once in a while! Last time it happened to me was two years ago when I got a phone call.....Instead of yet another tyco HO set, or another 307 atlantic, it was the Yard King Special of '55 in nicely used condition (broken steps, small nicks, etc.--but nothing to detract from use and display on a layout!). I'm ready for the NP set find at a yard sale......(yeah, the Lottery is more likely to pay off!) S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4933	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: REPLY FROM 3rd RAIL

Scott Mann wrote: Dear Glen, Thanks for passing it on. We are aware of the problems with the previous Z trains. Actually we had many more problems than Mike talks about. We have corrected the plating, gearing and soldering (straight) problems, and our factory in China has been producing fine products such as our latest releases the UP CA-1 Cabooses and P5a Box Cab Electrics. Things are getting better and better on each project. Best Regards, Scott Mann

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4934	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: digested to death

Very sorry that Mr. Trains16 was so spectacularly upset by this discussion. I don't understand why someone who likes original trains doesn't like original thought. IMy concerns and opinions have been greatly clarified by this debate to the point where I feel more strongly about them than ever. I am stopping because all points of view have been fully expressed, not because I "lost" the argument. I cannot accept that last ill mannered ill humored Trains16 posting as a fit ending to this discussion, so will (hopefully) end this mess with a few comments by others: -BRAVO! (Charles E. Smith) -Thanks Bro. Jarcho for your'sermon' on model trains as primarily toys and fun. (Dwight, lifetalk.radio@...). - ...I couldn't agree more with Tom's comments on repainting. (Andy McBride) -Amen! (Chris Zizzo) -AMEN! Well said and I, for one, agree! ...Thanks for speaking my mind for me! (Jim Row) -Right on, Tom! Well felt and written. (Charles Ellis) -we must not lose sight of the obvious. American Flyer model trains no matter how nice are really a recreational pursuit,... (V. Neimanis) -Tom, As a former member of the TCA , I say "RIGHT ON"!, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C Respectfully submitted, Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4935	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: Re: digested to death

OK, on repainting and representation. 1) if one's work is good enough to match factory finishes, wonderful! Put your name on it (somewhere hidden) and if your reputation for wonderful work spreads, your restorations will be in demand (maybe someone will try to forge your name on their work--highest form of flattery!) and you will have a place in AF history. 2) I have a nice 370 I picked up cheap, as the wheels wouldn't mesh with the motor. The outside was so clean, that both the seller and I assumed it was a repaint. Well, upon dismantling, I find an assembly error, easily corrected and now it operates fine. Hmm, closer look at the shell shows no signs of refinishing. I don't know, maybe it is the original finish, I suspect it is. What do I do if I later decide to sell? Well, I'm going to be upfront and tell everyone, "looks original, but could be a refinish job." That is proper representation. Considering that it wasn't assembled right, maybe it *was* a factory error, only the shadow knows. But it would be dishonest not to tell the complete story--I used to sell life insurance, we were well taught that omissions are as wrong as mis-statements (before PCness, "lies"). Meantime, I have a loco that really is too nice for the layout--a "Shelf Queen"--oh well, it only has coupling bars anyway! Can't push cars with it, only pull. But, as I believe I've mentioned before, the important thing is to have fun with your trains; whether it be to save a small piece of history, re-live a childhood dream, or create realistic miniature worlds--or even "play the market!" Meantime, I'm gonna fix some trains (I think I may honestly like that more than running them--guess that puts me *really* on the lunatic fringe!). S'incerely, David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4936	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: All Aboard Instructions

Roy-- All Aboard panels are what got me back into this hobby after 20-some years! I wandered into a train show "just for the fun of it" and ended up bringing home eight panels (two with switches!), and a good clean Franklin 88 with #20, 30 and 40 cars for $100!! And I didn't even realize what a great deal it was at the time! (I sure do now after lurking on eBay!!) The All Aboard panels are held together with special "spring" wire clips that go through the gold-colored rivet at the end of each panel. These clips serve to hold the panels together tightly and they also make an electrical connection between each panel. Doug Peck at PortLines (PortLines@..., http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html) has everything you'll need -- panel clips, Pikemaster track pins, documentation, etc. He helped me a lot when I first re-entered this hobby and got me going on the right track. (heh, heh) Mr. Peck is a frequent contributor to this list. Hobby Surplus Sales (http://www.HobbySurplus.com) also has the usual missing items like the red/white house, beige/blue house, foot bridge, signs, fences, light poles, etc. The only thing I haven't seen is a source for the plastic trees...but I'll bet Mr. Peck knows where to find some! Check out Paul's site at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/panels/panels.htm for some more information. IF you devise a way to help silence the ROAR of a train and cars rolling over the hollow All Aboard panels, I'd sure appreciate knowing about it! I've been thinking about something I haven't tried yet...if one were to put down one of those foam mattress pads (you know, the kind with all those little bumps on it) and then set the All Aboard panels on top, that *might* absorb enough of the hollow roar to let the engine's choo-choo be heard! I don't recall if there are any mounting holes in the panels to attach to a table top, but I'd think one would need to be careful not to warp the panel if using a mattress pad beneath it. ALL ABOAAARD!! -=[ Brian ]=- ________________________________________________________ Old Cowboy Insight: If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin' somebody else's dog around. ________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4937	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/13/1999
Subject: More All Aboard

Roy-- Oh yeah...the All Aboard catalog is on-line at: http://members.tripod.com/~Chevy1953/ab/home.html -=[ Brian ]=- ________________________________________________________ Old Cowboy Insight: The quickest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it back into your pocket. ________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4938	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: $12.95?

>>meet that criterion. When I was a kid buying model stuff a 300 class >>Reading Atlantic cost $12.95. At a cost of $15 times that figure we are >>looking at a train that csts about $200. The future of S gauge is locked > > How much should a new $12.95 loco sell for today? :-) Good line of thought. In the mid-50's, a new Chev cost around $2000, depending on options. What is that now, around $20,000? A candy bar was a nickel, now 50 cents. And so it goes. It appears to me that many items are roughly 10X from the mid-50's. My AF boxcars cost me $5 in the late '50's. That would make them around $50 now............ Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Train Watching Along the Erie Canal http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4939	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: more thoughts on originalness

there is a new marker that the industry has added for those who want their trains NIB,un-opened, untouched by human hands.about a year ago, L and MTH started including the batteries for their command/sound equipped locos. so i guess a loco and its box with a hole burned clean thru them is going to be a desirable bit of authenticity documentation for the "serious" collector. glad i play with 'em.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4940	From: sigma@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: digest 365-trains 16

The puerile response of Trains16 to what Tom Jarcho has said deserves a rebuke. But that's all it deserves. It's to be hoped that he doesn't clutter the S-Trains circuit with any more of his ranting. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4941	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: A Fitting End

Dear Fellow Trainiacs: Actually, I enjoyed watching some of you foam at the mouth during these past few days. Nice to see the passions run high, even if they came out a little wordy. Here is something, which in three steps will provide a fitting end to our discussions about value and about repairs. Step 1: Go to this web address http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/jaseonem/marxist.htm Step 2: Read the whole thing and look at the pictures (takes 3 minutes). Step 3: Regain the understanding of what this hobby is about. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4942	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: fixit posts

As we all continue to have our say, its really nice to read the fixit posts! Since I get digest form its easy to skip stuff, where if you have each message sent individually they demand reading? Anyway the fixits kinda clear the air. thanx U all. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4943	From: RBaratta@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Traction

Hi List: I have a question on traction. I know this is not pertaining to S gauge but I need some advice. I bought a new Lionel GP-9 with Magna-Traction. My layout has Atlas O track, it's nickel rail. The magna-traction on the engine will not work on the Atlas track. Lionel says I cannot install traction tires because the axle diameter is different. Any advice for improving traction? Funny, my S trains never had this problem.............. Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4944	From: Andy McBride	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Flyer + Marx = ?

Has anybody ever attempted to use a Marx accessory with Flyer. Is it easy to do? Any tips or things I should look out for? Andy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4945	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: traction

One thing you can do to improve traction is add as much weight as possible to the loco. I assume there's some space inside and/or under the fuel tanks. Hobby stores have moldable forms of lead compounds that can be bent and shaped with your fingers for this purpose. You can use pure lead such as fishing sinkers, lead pipe, or scrap lead. Since lead is so toxic, it's better to hammer it into shape on a steel surface rather than cut it with a saw, to avoid producing lead dust. You can get an idea of what improvement you can expect by taping the lead to the top of the body with drafting tape. In this top-heavy condition the loco might fall off the track on a curve but you can see what the improvement is on a straight segment of track. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4946	From: Louis Glumac	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: ICQ IM's

Hi,,,,speaking of refinish,, i hate to do it,, but i just got a 593 af signal tower in bad shape,,, little rust and paint is bad,,,, does anyone do refinishing here??????? Toyguy5344@... wrote: > > From: Toyguy5344@... > > i for one would be glad to yak it up with anyone from this list on ICQ. my # > is:9161411, screen name is jayem-john marganski > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GET WHAT YOU DESERVE! A NextCard Platinum VISA: DOUBLE Rewards points, > NO annual fee & rates as low as 9.9 percent FIXED APR. Apply online today! > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/nextcard5 ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4947	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Lionel Battery damage

Battery damage has been a problem with Lionel trains ever since they started making diesels. For those of you who haven't tried it yet, the corrosion must be removed with a wire brush and the dust is REALLY NASTY ! Instant sore throat at the least, plus burning skin and watering eyes. Take precautions -- mask, gloves, goggles, ventilation, do it outdoors if possible, etc. Incidentally, my disillusion with the TCA began years ago when the head of the local TCA chapter sold a friend of mine a pair of Lionel Santa Fe F-3's which he graded as mint that had major battery damage. Technically, the guy was probably correct. But I promised... Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4948	From: Bill Porter	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: A Procedural Note

Hi Gents, Entertaining comments from a number of the brothers in the recent postings. A couple of the notes did not include the name of the person making the comments. Sadly, I don't keep a cross reference that relates the email names to the actual person's names for the list members. So, when you have something worth saying to the rest of us, please tell us who you are. And now, back to hurricane Floyd.... Great ZOT itS, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4949	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: digested to death

Oh yeah, I'm just so enraged here I'm really torn up over all of this. No one has a problem here with an original thought, provided it is original. There is nothing original about your arrogance, and condescending attitude. Oh yes, your quite clear in your message that you don't give a damn about others in this hobby, and wheither they are taken in a buy/sell deal, or wheither honest business dealings are taking place, and certainly that you will not take any responsibility for your actions. You were quite clear in cutting down our government, its laws, our society, and our collecting organizations as a whole. Its quite clear that if you wish to deal in an illegal manner, and not follow common rules of decency, that you will do so without remorse or care. Absolutely no question, you are as transparent as glass... Somehow, thankfully, a majority of us don't think like that or agree with this agenda, and thats what you clearly cannot accept. Please do not ever condescend to tell! me that I am ill mannered when I am standing up for doing what is right, promoting this hobby in a fair and equitable manner, and expressing my concerns, and in quite a polite manner considering your damn attitude. I've recieved almost 100 e-mails in support of my honest and forthright commentary. But I will not be as vain as to post them here. There is no need to, and its a matter of respect for those who lent their support yet wished to maintain their privacy. Its the dignified thing to do, but thats something you obviously know nothing about. Tell me I'm wrong... So save your fabricated back patting list there for someone who cares, and in the mean time let this string die. Although its likely that you won't be able to accept that its over, prove us wrong.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4950	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer + Marx = ?

Andy, it should work just fine. You might have to adjust slightly for track height, all else should be compatible.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4951	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel Battery damage

In a message dated 9/14/99 12:44:28 PM, jarcho@... writes: << Incidentally, my disillusion with the TCA began years ago when the head of the local TCA chapter sold a friend of mine a pair of Lionel Santa Fe F-3's which he graded as mint that had major battery damage. >> Oh, and this never happens out there in the hobby in general? Jeeez!!! The action of one member has nothing to do with the official stance of an organization as a whole, although it can adversely reflect upon it. No organization of humanoids is perfect. Fortunately, I have no horror stories to tell regarding transactions under the providence of the TCA (Flyer folk seem to be generally a pretty good bunch, anyway.). Personally, the benefits of the TCA have heavily outweighed any perceived negatives. The TCA has proved for me to be a valuable avenue for interaction with knowledgeable, friendly, and honest toy train folk around the world, as has the NASG. I have made many new good friends with the TCA being the catalyst for those interactions. The TCA QUARTERLY alone is worth the price of admission and I strongly encourage anyone who is sincerely interested in the history, operation, and/or collecting of toy trains to join. RB (94-38531)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4952	From: Trains16@aol.com	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: digest 365-trains 16

>>From: sigma@... >>The puerile response of Trains16 to what Tom Jarcho >>has said >>deserves a >>rebuke. But that's all it deserves. It's to be hoped >>that he >>doesn't >>clutter the S-Trains circuit with any more of his >>ranting. >>Joe Pereira Geeee Joe, whats the matter? Blocking your mail cause your afraid the mean old Trains guy might have something intelligent to say in response to your meaningless comment? Any child can kick the dog and run to mommy and hide. Its the real man who stays to hold their ground.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4953	From: Charles E. Smith	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: A Fitting End

Thanks for reminding some of us how we got to this point and what it's all about. busy-boy wrote: > > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > > Dear Fellow Trainiacs: > > Actually, I enjoyed watching some of you foam at the mouth during these past > few days. Nice to see the passions run high, even if they came out a little > wordy. > > Here is something, which in three steps will provide a fitting end to our > discussions about value and about repairs. > > Step 1: Go to this web address > http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/jaseonem/marxist.htm > Step 2: Read the whole thing and look at the pictures (takes 3 minutes). > Step 3: Regain the understanding of what this hobby is about. > > Two to go, > Chris Zizzo > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > Enter ONElist's Friends & Family Program > WIN $100 to Amazon.com! Through Sept. 17. To enter, click here > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/ff ">Click Here</a> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4954	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: TCA

I apologize. I should have clearly stated that A LOT of the most pleasant, kind, well informed, and helpful people I have met or corresponded with in this hobby are TCA members. There are a lot of wonderful people in that organization. I am very sorry that I neglected to mention this earlier in the last discussion. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4955	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: L- Beacon Tower

Hi, I pulled out my old L- Beacon Tower...the unit vibrates but the dang thing does not spin...any thoughts...thanks Jeff --

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4956	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: On going remarks

Come on guys...can't we all just get along??? Whether they're repainted, New In Box or a box of junk for $5.00 they're still just toys! How about some more repair tips and less bickering. Sounds like a bunch of 6th graders comparing their toys(mine's better than yours...etc). Please let's be the helpful bunch of brothers we've been in the past. Regard'S' Al Babbitt-TOY TRAIN COLLECTOR/OPERATOR Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers-NASG-Boise, ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4957	From: Andy McBride	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Fussing and fighting my friends

Hey Kids, I enjoy these email discussions and many of the original thoughts that come out of them. I think it's great that we can throw out a topic for debate and kick it around a bit. When those debates turn personal though I don't think they belong on this list. Might I respectfully suggest that Tom Jarcho and who ever "Trains16@..." is to please take their discussion off line. Please don't feel like you have to respond to the group in your attempts to get in the last word with a "I'll stop if he stops" e-mail like the ones we've been getting today. Just use the opportunity that e-mail provides you to continue your debate and personal attacks with out an audience. Andy McBride PS Thanks Tom Jarcho for your suggestion on putting semaphores at Grand Jct. on my layout. PPS Thanks "Trains16@..." for your help with my Marx question.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4958	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: TIP: Use filters

One email tip that you might find useful, in case you're not aware of it. Many email programs allow the creation of mail "filters". I use these a lot to filter, file and organize incoming mail. For example mail from certain people gets automatically copied into certain folders for future reference because it is so good. Of mail from certain companies that I do business with automatically gets filed in their folder for future reference. But you can also use them to get rid of mail you don't want without even having to look at it. For example I seem to be unable to get off a few vendor's mail distribution lists. So I filter all mail from that email address directly into the trash folder. I never even see it. You can easily do the same with address of folks whose postings consume unneeded bandwidth on mailing lists, or who carry on needlessly regarding certain topics. Now if I could only have filters for the mail in my USPS (hardcopy) mailbox. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4959	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Germany Museum

To see a web version of the Nurmberg Train Museum flyer (AKA American Flyer in Germany) see http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/nurmberg/nurmberg.html -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4960	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Re: All ABoard

<<Doug Peck at PortLines (PortLines@..., http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html) has everything you'll need -- panel clips, Pikemaster track pins, documentation, etc. He helped me a lot when I first re-entered this hobby and got me going on the right track. (heh, heh) Mr. Peck is a frequent contributor to this list. Hobby Surplus Sales (http://www.HobbySurplus.com) also has the usual missing items like the red/white house, beige/blue house, foot bridge, signs, fences, light poles, etc. The only thing I haven't seen is a source for the plastic trees...but I'll bet Mr. Peck knows where to find some! >> First of all........PLEASE, guys.....the ONLY folks who call me "Mr Peck" are my students!!!! "Doug" to the rest of you! Yes, we still carry as much AllAbd stuff as we can.....and we have even had some items made ourselves. We DO have the solid green trees, and we have adequate--but not identical-- repros of the "bushy" multi-piece trees. HSS no longer has any of the 2-story houses. Those are now tough to find. HSS still has ranch houses, at $10 a pop. HSS hasn't had streetlights in YEARS ! Those are also very tough. Over the past couple of years, we have been trying to get some of the plastic parts made.....streetlights, long picket fences, stopsigns.......... but injection plastic costs are out-of-sight. So far, I haven't found an outfit that can do them for me at a price I can justify spending. If I can find one, I'll proceed, but no luck yet. Have several other plastic AF parts I'd like to do also, such as exploding boxcar ends. I'm not trying to get them done for pennies, but I don't want to mortgage my house to do them either! If anyone has any leads (small operations that do plastic injection without having to do runs of 100,000 pieces!). let me know. I'll follow up. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4961	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: Gabe

Any news on the repro 23780 for this year? Price, availability, sneak peeks, how close to the real thing, quality? Some times I have to ask myself, why didn't he just throw a switch at the base of the tower, then again, hey, that's why these are toys (novelty tools of the trade called fun). Then too, why would I ever pay so much for him to do such a silly thing? $1600 for an original....not (but would love one). $400 for a good (made well, hard to tell from the original, and works well) reproduction to use on the layout, hmmmmm, OK maybe. Just to see him do his silly thing, and smile.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4962	From: jim	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: TCA grading

Hi, I am a little concerned by these harsh comments by "Trains16" against Tom Jarcho and his stand on the TCA. If I understand this correctly the TCA standards are the standard that we as collectors and operators are to use when grading the condition of our beloved toy trains. An item was up for sale on Ebay recently that I think was being sold by "Trains16" that used the following description: This is an American Flyer #715 Auto Unloading Flat Car. Car rates VG+ in condition due to a few minor chips in the paint, and the number 715 is worn off as can be seen in the photo. Looks like someone was trying to clean that end of the car for some reason. Still looks good, and the car overall is clean. Comes with the original load which is a red and silver manoil #707 coupe. It is also in VG+ condition with some minor wear to the paint. The car is complete, and does operate. It has its two original link couplers. There is NO box, button or track trip. Not too easy to find in decent shape, and with loads these days. Great for the operator, or the beginner collector. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=99109305 Now if I am not mistaken the condition of VG+ could be misleading since the above description says "a few minor chips in the paint, and the number 715 is worn off..." Would not the condition of fair or good be more appropriate in this situation, or is it truly in the "eye of the beholder"? I am not questioning this persons integrity, I am just wondering if too much importance is placed on TCA grading by some people. Jim.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4963	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: S-Helper switches

I just heard from Art Kimmel at Gulf Coast Hobbies that the new, wide radius S-Helper track is in. Any word on the switches yet, Don? For that matter, what are the specs (ie: Are they power-routed? Do they work with scale equipment too)? Paul Schneider, happy as hell with the first S Helper track he's bought.. and anxious to expand his living room floor empire. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4964	From: Trains16@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: TCA grading

Jim, grading is a matter of the person making it, that was never in dispute. The car was exceptionally clean other than the defects honestly noted. According to the grading description in all of the guides, and posted by TCA ans other collecting organizations, VG is: Few Scratches, No dents or Rust, Very Clean. This car in my opinion happened to match that description perfectly. You or another may not agree, I have no beef with that. If the eventual bidder would have had a problem with the car I would have gladly refunded his money.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4965	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Marx Accessory

I use a Marx hot-bulb rotating beacon. Nothing special to hook up. Works fine. Nearly LN condition with OB (not that I ever care whether something has its "casket" or not). Cost me $15 at a local show.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4966	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: Gabe

In a message dated 9/14/99 6:15:45 PM, David_Horn@... writes: << Any news on the repro 23780 for this year? >> Please go to page 117 of the October 1999 issue of CTT for the ad for "Gilbert Reproductions". The Gabe repro is to cost $399.95. As to how good it will be, we will have to wait and see. BTW, decent original Gabes in TCA E condition do show up for about $1000 ($999.95? :))) ), and this could soften when the new repro hits the streets. They will also be reproducing some of the other towers (e.g., the checkerboard) for $99.95 and will also run a new issue of the track gang repro. Their address is: Gilbert Reproductions 288 Lancaster Avenue Malvern, PA 19355 http://www.busdir.com/triplessup

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4967	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Soldering

Well I have been using my old Weller gun, also have (yes) woodburing pencil type solderer, electric of course, wattage unknown. Did I read recently recommendation of steel vs. copper tip on Weller...??? To protect any electronics (not AF tinplate but solid state stuff) what are recommendations? Do I NEED a high heat unit? Are alligator clips adequate as heat sink for leads to solid state items (OTT type E unit, etc) for protection against heat? thanx in advance- L. (the watchmaker)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4968	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: Soldering

I have a Weller gun also. Great for soldering on reverse units, track etc. But, it is not suitable for soldering on solid state electronics. It gets way too hot, I think they are like 80 watts in on the low range position, and the tips are too big for delicate work. I would recommend the puchase of a soldering iron of about 25 watts in size. Radio Shack used to even have a 3 wire one (grounded) which might help protect the more delicate stuff like ICs. I have successfully used such an iron to unsolder 40 pins ICs without damage. Printed Circuit boards are very easily damaged by excessive heat, and so are many solid state devices such (but not limited to) diodes, transistors etc.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4969	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: More on TCA

I promised myself that I would not get involved in this debate, but I do have a few things to say. First, I can see both Tom Jarcho's and trains16's (name??) positons to some degree. But I do not believe that either is completely correct, although I respect their opinions and their right to express them. However, more importantly I would like to discuss the Train Collectors Association. When I joined TCA in the Pacific Northwest Division in 1957, almost everyone I met was honest and forthright. They reflected the ideals and foundations of the hobby. These included people such as Dan Olson and Mike Kolosseus (sp?). However, within a short time their ranks were joined by the speculators, including a professional who flew down from Canada to each meet in his own private plane. That seemed to signal a beginning of a change in the origanization to me. That is bound to happen as the organization grew from less than 8500 persons when I joined to what today--over 20,000? However, even with a few rotten apples, I continue to meet many fine, caring, honest people today through TCA (and the Virginia Train Collectors, or VTC). I have learned a lot through their members and through their publications that I could never have gotten elsewhere--not even on S-Trains! And, as I continue to discover throughout my life, there are good and bad people almost everywhere. The TCA grading standards are only a recommendation, but have the support of the organization. If a TCA member misrepresents a piece using this grading system or defaults on payment (e.g., bounced check) through a TCA-sponsored event, there is some recourse through the organization itself. Quite a few TCA members have had their memberships revoked due to fraud (financial or grading/reproduction misrepresentation). In the example given by Tom, the recipient of the "mint" Lionel diesel with battery acid corrosion should have asked for either a refund or adjustment on his purchase as it in no way could be considered "mint" (they never came with an installed battery). If none was forthcoming, he should have forwarded copies of the transaction (grading and pictures) to TCA National for action against the TCA member. I accept checks from TCA or VTC members without reservation, and have yet to be stiffed. I have known others who have received checks that bounced, but got satisfaction in lieu of referring the matter to TCA National. In other words, in my experience TCA has stood behind its grading policies and conditions of membership. It is not a perfect organization, but it does seem to care about protecting its membership. Finally, I always sign my name to my submissions and include my signature. I always distrust anyone who will not do the same. Joe === Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4970	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Flames

Dear Mr. Trains Sixteen At AOL Dot Com: I do not know who you are. If you post a technical comment, it would be nice to know who was dispensing advice. If you are going to go on an emotional tear, please have the courage to sign your name to your rant. I am certain there are list members who back your position. I seriously doubt you could get 100 of them to reply unless you were giving away free trains. The tone of your most recent post borders on hysteria. Please, get a grip. This list has managed very well without flames. A little passion now and then with a bit of sarcasm sprinkled in is understandable. If you need to vent uncontrollably at another list member, please do us all a favor and do it off-list. Thank you, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4971	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Hey, where did you get that?

Al Babbitt wrote: Come on guys...can't we all just get along??? Whether they're repainted, New In Box or a box of junk for $5.00 they're still just toys! I agree, now tell me, will you take ten bucks for the box??? Big :-) CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4972	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: Flames

I guess we can call him "The Phantom Collector" >From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > >Dear Mr. Trains Sixteen At AOL Dot Com: > >I do not know who you are. > >If you post a technical comment, it would be nice to know who was dispensing >advice. >If you are going to go on an emotional tear, please have the courage to sign >your name to your rant. > >>Thank you, >Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4973	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: TCA standards

Jim wrote: >The condition of VG+ could be misleading since >the above description says "a few minor chips in the paint, and the >number 715 is worn off..." Would not the condition of fair or good be >more appropriate . . . or is it truly in the "eye of the beholder"? Jim: You would not believe how bad a piece looks when it is rated "good". Pieces that are holding together and barely running are given that appellation all the time. A car with a few minor chips is probably a VG in the strictest sense. You need to get familiar with the TCA system. It is not an "eye of the beholder" system, but it can mislead the novice. Remember that what are being rated (primarily) are fifty year old toys. The largest majority of those found will have some serious wear. The TCA grading system marks on this curve, with the extremes being the perfection of "Mint" and the abject destruction of "Poor". Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4974	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: Flames

From: "Roy Hoffman" <rhoffman@...> I guess we can call him "The Phantom Collector" NAH, That'd be someone who collects Lionel Fantasy Locomotives! AAAUUGH I wrote the L word!!! I beg forgiveness!!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4975	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: Flames

What's a "L" Fantasy Locomotive? One that runs? >From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > >From: "Roy Hoffman" <rhoffman@...> > >I guess we can call him "The Phantom Collector" > >NAH, That'd be someone who collects Lionel Fantasy Locomotives! >AAAUUGH I wrote the L word!!! >I beg forgiveness!!! >S' >David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4976	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: car washer

I saw a really fun and entertaining accessory in action at the last train show my son and I attended. It was on the AF Club's layout. It was a train car washer. There was a platform with a little shack, a man holding a little brush. When the car pulled up next to the platform and stopped then the little fellow buzzed up and down the platform next to the car with the brush going up and down. What was that? Who makes/made it? Any one know? I couldn't find it tonight in my books and did not have time at the show to ask about it. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4977	From: Dennis Back	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: car washer

David H. and all: This is a part of the text of the instruction sheet from the car washer: ************ Introducing.... THE #765 CAR WASHER ACCESSORY Finally, the accessory you have read about that was almost produced is now a reality. After a year in the planning stage, this colorful and amusing little accessory is yours to enjoy..... ***************** This item was never produced by A.C.G. It was made and sold a couple of years ago in limited quantities, using the original specs from the original patent drawings. I got mine last year from Bill Parr for $375. It was one of the last ones he had. At one time Doug Peck at Port Line had them also. The front of the instructions has a copy of the original patent drawing. It was granted on Nov.16,1954. to W.R. Smith Et Al. #2,694,271. "Animated Trackside Accessory For Toy Railroads" Filed March 29, 1950. Hope this helps. Dennis Miami __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4978	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: carnival rides

Does anyone know if there are any carnival rides produces in S or (heaven forbid and please forgive me) O gauge? Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4979	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: Re: carnival rides

I understand the HO ones are really more S sized. I've not compared them to know though. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4980	From: David Golden	Date: 9/14/1999
Subject: PLEASE!!!!

Come on everybody. I cannot speak for anyone else but I joined this list to further my enjoyment of running my American Flyer train set. I did not join this list to watch people attempt to convince everyone that their way is the right and only way to enjoy this hobby. LETS GET BACK TO TALKING ABOUT TRAINS AND NOT SERMONIZING! David R. Golden

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4981	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: All Aboard!

Doug & Roy-- OK -- "Doug" it is! <grin> No more "Mr. Peck!" Gosh...I'd ordered All Aboard signs fences, and street lights from HSS back in the late 70's to finish off my original set of All Aboard panels, which were then packed away and forgotten for 20 years. Glad I got em while they were still available!! 2-story house?! By golly, a check of the All Aboard catalog does show a 2-story house. All this time I'd been mistaking the beige house for it. I thought HSS still had the beige house 'cause I just received a new roof and chimney from them last week. The panels I bought a couple of years ago included a roof-less beige house. The guy at the train show I bought them from suggested that since we're in Kansas, it would be natural for a house to be missing it's roof. <grin> I liked that guy -- good sense of humor. Doug--there was a whistle panel on eBay that sold for $36 today. I let it go...it got too rich for my blood. Have you seen one of those panels? If one were to find a whistle panel with a damaged whistle, are parts available for it? I'm presuming (hoping) Gilbert used a whistle mechanism from one of the billboards. -=[ Brian ]=- ________________________________________________________ Old Cowboy Insight: The quickest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it back into your pocket. ________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4982	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: L- Airport Beacon

Hi, I wanted to thank all the guys that responded to my beacon problem....I was able to secure the washers in town..I was missing the buttom washer also...now she spins....my airport is much safer...Jeff --

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4983	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: "BLINKING TOWER"

Did flyer ever make a blinking tower....for example a TV tower..or if you guys are aware of anything out there that would be "S" compatible....thanks again, Jeff --

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4984	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: airport beacon

Jeff: Is your airport closed for the hurricane? More importantly, are the trains still running? You can easily devise a blinking light tower from a junker Flyer tower, Marx Floodlite tower, or even just some spare girders. There are lots of ways to light it. You can just use Radio Shack#272-1097 flashing bulbs. These come in packs of 3, I each red yellow and green, CHEAP. Since they are rated at 12v, you can use pairs of red ones wired in series for a rating of 24V which should hold out quite well at Flyer voltages of 12-17 V.A.C. There are also various blinker circuits and ladder circuits of LED's on the market for different purposes. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4985	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Car Washer

The car washer will be available again from Tom Seccia's Gilbert Reproductions. The ad in the October CTT should show the intended price and order information. I know Joe Haenn of this list and probably Doug Peck will be carrying these items. You might let them know if you want one so they may reserve one for you. I too have had mine for about two years. I don't know if David saw mine but I try to have it operating at every show the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers operates at. It is always a hit with children and adults alike. I highly recommend it. Take care. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4986	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Flashing bulbs

No Al, that's not correct. These bulbs work fine in series pairs. Just tried it on my workbench . These bulbs are probably smaller than the ones you used. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4987	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: carnival rides

I don't know who makes them, but at York a couple of vendors have pretty impressive miniature carnival rides on display for sale. I'm not sure of the scale. Most likely O. I have stopped to take a quick look and remember several of them were really well animated, detailed, and accessorized the lights, signage, etc. If I see them next month, and pick up a card or two, I'll provide that info on this list. If you ask about them on the TCA list, you might get more info right away.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4988	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Carnival Rides

Hi, On a recent trip to New York, I had some time to kill...I went into a "Hallmark" store...they do have animated "carnival rides"....they did look pretty close to scale...if you have these large stores in your town..you may want to check them out....this store had a large assortment of buildings etc.....Jeff --

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4989	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Re: airport beacon

Or you can imply install a flashing red light bulb. I bought mine at York and installed it in the top of my AF water tank. One anomaly- when it flashes any other lights on the sane transformer react by dimming a tad, but not enough to bother me. If it's bothersome dedicate a small transformer or tap the AC on an HO power supply(the $5 kind) I think the vendor was Korber. I've seen ads in magazines, maybe CTT for them. Jarcho wrote: > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > Jeff: Is your airport closed for the hurricane? More importantly, are the > trains still running? > > You can easily devise a blinking light tower from a junker Flyer tower, > Marx Floodlite tower, or even just some spare girders. There are lots of > ways to light it. You can just use Radio Shack#272-1097 flashing bulbs. > These come in packs of 3, I each red yellow and green, CHEAP. Since they > are rated at 12v, you can use pairs of red ones wired in series for a > rating of 24V which should hold out quite well at Flyer voltages of 12-17 > V.A.C. There are also various blinker circuits and ladder circuits of > LED's on the market for different purposes. Tom > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > http://www.onelist.com/ad/gator1 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4990	From: michael prell	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: American Flyer Circus Repro.

A few years ago, I came across an ad for the American Flyer cardboard circus reproduction. I'm lucky enough to have the red engine and flat car/passenger car combo. Is the cardboard repro still available, and who has it? Thanks. Mike Prell __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4991	From: John Foley	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Model Railroading on L.I.

Hi Folks Does anyone on this list live on Long Island NY? There is a show called Model Railroading on Long Island. It's on at 4PM Thursdays & 4:30 PM on saturdays. The reason I ask is that the South Jersay S Gaugers, S Helper Service and I {NASG} attended the East Coast Large Scale Train Show last Augest. The crew of the MRLI filmed the SJSG's layout and did a couple of interveiws of S Gaugers. At the MRLI website http://www.mrli.com/ they mention this as show # 38 on Cablevision channel 80. It is to be aired this month. So if you saw or see let us know. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4992	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Re: All Aboard

In a message dated 9/16/99 6:23:45 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << Doug--there was a whistle panel on eBay that sold for $36 today. I let it go...it got too rich for my blood. Have you seen one of those panels? If one were to find a whistle panel with a damaged whistle, are parts available for it? I'm presuming (hoping) Gilbert used a whistle mechanism from one of the billboards. >> That was a STEAL! I wish I'd seen it listed! Haven't had time to look at Ebay in weeks now! Last time I did look, there were over 800 AF listings! Anyway, the Whistle panel (& the crossover panel) are tough panels to find. If complete and boxed, it wouldn't be surprising to see them sell for several times that figure! If memory serves me, the whistle unit is the same unit used in an AF billboard whistle. Gilbert rarely failed to use the same item in different manners! It would be surprising to see a panel with a "damaged whistle".......far more likely to have the whistle, but be missing the 2-story house that hides it! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4993	From: Allen Evans	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: RibbonRail

I was recently at the Walthers web site, and noticed that RibbonRail intends to announce their S gauge railroad track. Do my eyes deceive me? Allen Evans Covington, Louisiana

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4994	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Re: Carwasher

In a message dated 9/16/99 6:23:45 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << I saw a really fun and entertaining accessory in action at the last train show my son and I attended. It was on the AF Club's layout. It was a train car washer. There was a platform with a little shack, a man holding a little brush. When the car pulled up next to the platform and stopped then the little fellow buzzed up and down the platform next to the car with the brush going up and down. What was that? Who makes/made it? Any one know? I couldn't find it tonight in my books and did not have time at the show to ask about it. >> Gilbert patented these, but only made a few (2-3-4? ) prototypes. I only know of 2 in existence, and one of those is incomplete. At one time, (10 yrs ago?), John Heck had begun to produce them, but his brush did not have the vertical motion. He made VERY few (probably count 'em on one hand....not sure). For the past 5-6 years, they have been produced by another individual who is no longer making them. I don't think "limited" is a proper term in his case, because I would say he probably turned out somewhere between 100 and 200 of them. He has since moved, and ceased production, turning to other projects. We sold many of his carwashers, which DO have the vertical motion. The newest version, through "Gilbert Reproductions", is still another manufacturer. I know of no one who has yet seen it, so I don't know anything about its quality or features yet. But like all the other Gilbert Reproductions (Gabe, Checkerboards, Carwasher, Track Gang, etc), we WILL be carrying them as soon as they are released. We've alerady pre-ordered stock.....nothing here yet though! Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4995	From: Richard	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: MR on LI!!

These guys certainly add another dimension to the hobby. To my knowledge we have yet to experience such shows over here..public TV is a real novelty!! Shows like Tracks Ahead, and MR on LI should be a fantastic way of reaching existing modelers and presenting to new ones...especially kids...in their native format TV!! These guys at MRLI really seem to have their act together. cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4996	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Re: RibbonRail

Who or what is RibbonRail. The proverbial curious minds want to know. cheers Allen Evans wrote: > From: Allen Evans <alevans@...> > > I was recently at the Walthers web site, and noticed that RibbonRail intends > to announce their S gauge railroad track. > > Do my eyes deceive me? > > Allen Evans > Covington, Louisiana > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! > Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in > forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > http://www.onelist.com/ad/gator1 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4997	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: AF 45 WATT TRANSFORMER

Gentleman, Need a little advice ...I am in the process of running my buildings lighting on this dedicated transformer.....having it set at 10 volts....for the bulbs to last longer....if I am running 12 volt bulbs....is there a rule of thumb on how many lights I can run on this transformer without causing any fires or burning out the transformer....with the dial set...my volt meter is a steady 10 volts....your feedback is most welcome..Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4998	From: Boss31@aol.com	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 372 S -scale Carnival

Ben Kronenwetter asked about A carnival in S. Ertl makes a very colorful one that is inducive to "Toy Train" operations. You can see one set up on the Web site of the Rocky Mountain-Hi Railers or on Paul Yorkes photos of that layout. Steve Blackburn Boise, Idaho ...RMHR

Group: S-Trains	Message: 4999	From: Allen Evans	Date: 9/15/1999
Subject: The RibbonRail Question

Fellow S-Scalers - About this company "RibbonRail" making S Gauge track - All I can tell you is what I see when I go to the Walthers web site, and look up S gauge railroad track. Up pops this mysterious company, RibbonRail, with tons of S gauge track, annotated as "future delivery". My attempts to learn more about the company seemed simple enough. I simply typed in http://www.ribbonrail.com on my web browser. However, what I got was a strange semblance of company web page with only links to other rail sites. It is for this reason I have raised the questions: WHO IS RIBBONRAIL? WHY DONT ANY OF US KNOW THESE FOLKS? Meanwhile, Showcase Line continues to kick out some super hi-tech railroad track, now available in the 24 and 29 inch diameters. Bills Train Shop delivers the Scale Buff's dream stuff, and Gargraves, American Models and Atlas maintain good footing as the "Old Guard". Fellow S Gaugers, without decent track we would be in peril. But we are a most fortunate lott, especially now that we have some of the best track in the entire industry. Allen Evans Covington, Louisiana Member For One Whole Year and Counting....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5000	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Lledo diecast - 38 Chevy Delivery Truck

Just FYI in case it fits anyone's needs... While I was in South Carolina recently, I stopped in for a Krispy Kreme donut fix. While I was the store I noticed 1938 Chevrolet Delivery Truck, in the Krispy Kreme logo of course. Turns out it is made by Lledo, sells for $9.95, and appears to me to be very close to S scale. Of course I'm not an expert in this area, and don't have a real 38 Chevy Delivery Truck to compare measurements :-) It measures out to about 19.5 feet bumper to bumper, about 5.8 feet inside wheel to inside wheel along the axle, and about 7.7 feet across the running boards in the middle of the door area. Checking the online Krispy Kreme catalog says it's 1/64 scale....the online catalog says $13.95, while the store charged 9.95. You can see it at: http://www.krispykreme.com/mugs6.html Just in case anyone is interested... Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5001	From: Ross M Roberts Sandra L Roberts	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: carnival rides

Does anyone know if there are any carnival rides produces in S or (heaven forbid and please forgive me) O gauge? Try: Reed Scale Amusements Co. 6420 Peardale Road East Columbus OH 43229 They offer approx. 20 carnival type rides with prices from $400 to $800 They said that most of them approximate 1/64 scale. They offer a video of the rides interspersed with Department 56 buildings and some Plasticville buildings. (based on their 1996 price list and a letter they sent me)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5002	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: S track

Let's not forget the American Flyer track system, which is still plentiful. Although some of the most recent track is much better looking, American Flyer was the best toy track system ever made, with current switching turnouts with indicators at the switch and control and integral switch motors, sound deadening rubber roadbed, track trips, trestles, uncouplers, and rerailers. It is unbelievable sturdy for 2 rail track, and every element in it performs reliably. It remains the best system for building temporary layouts. It has also challenged our modern manufacturers like SHSinto producing some excellent systems to succeed it. Tom Jarcho.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5003	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: Re: Lledo diecast - 38 Chevy Delivery Truck

Michael, Actually, it's a '39 Chevy delivery car, and pretty accurate (I used to own a '39 Chevy). Lledo makes it for various companies, and, like all Lledo "S" scale stuff, its close, closer than the Schwanns Dodge truck! Should look great on a layout. Go back and buy some more and put them on eBay, save the money to go to the convention next year!! (A joke, son, I say, it's a Joke!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5004	From: Richard	Date: 9/16/1999
Subject: RibbonRail...and eyes!!

Regarding this manufacturer..your eyes Allen are not so much decieving you , but possibly mesmerizing you. The announced products refer to track "Gages" not track itself . This company has been making similar stuff in HO for years. Hope this clarifies >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5005	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Plasticville

Hi, Has anyone purchased "New Plasticville" buildings lately?...I purchase a coal loader and airport administration building...I am amased of the very poor quality...stuff does not fit...etc...know it makes sense why the old stuff is so expensive....they stay together..Jeff -- *

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5006	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Vermont trip

I am going to Burlington, Vt., in about a week, and plan to tour the changing of the colors in that part of the country. Does anyone know of an interesting hobby shop in that area that carries some post war A.F.? I don't want to miss anything A.F. related in a 3 or 4 state area while I am there (museums, lay-outs, etc.) Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5007	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: car washer

Thanks to everyone who replied. I found the ad in CTT, and look forward to seeing these repros soon. How far the money goes while there still are original AF (and some LTI AF) items and sets high on my list is another matter. But a really good repro Gabe or washer could alter my shopping list.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5008	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville

Jeff, Hmm, this is surprising, as they are supposedly from the original molds. While plastic seems to deform over time, the solid steel molds shouldn't! Maybe the plastic they're using now has a different shrink factor? We'll have to await someone else with more knowledge of plastic, or who has purchased more of the "new" stuff. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5009	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Plasticville coal tower

Yeah that thing can drive you nuts. It's really out on the outer edge of ""Plassticville technology". Sort of exceeded themselves or got carried away or something. Takes a lot of patience to deal with it but result is worth while. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5010	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville coal tower

In a message dated 9/17/99 8:24:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jarcho@... writes: << Yeah that thing can drive you nuts. It's really out on the outer edge of ""Plasticville technology". >> Agreed. My experience is that both old and new coal towers do not stay together too well. A dab of RTV here and there at interior joints might help. The RTV could be later peeled off the pieces for diassembly and repacking. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5011	From: Jerry Riechert	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: airport beacon

If your blinking light is at the end of string of other lights you might be getting a voltage drop along the wire. Running a separate wire for the blinker from the transformer might be alls that's needed. > Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:04:33 -0400 > From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> > Subject: Re: airport beacon > > Or you can imply install a flashing red light bulb. I bought mine at > York and installed it in the top of my AF water tank. One anomaly- when > it flashes any other lights on the sane transformer react by dimming a > tad, but not enough to bother me. If it's bothersome dedicate a small > transformer or tap the AC on an HO power supply(the $5 kind) I think > the vendor was Korber. I've seen ads in magazines, maybe CTT for them. -- Jerry Riechert riecherg@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5012	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville

I have bought the new manufactured Plasticville water tower, fire station and barn. I have not had any problem with the quality and I think the colors used in the barn and fire station are more realistic then the colors used in the original pieces. The water tower I glued together, but as I am not a collector, for me it is no problem. If I had a original, mint Plasticville piece I would be reluctant to glue it together. A detail note on the fire station, paint the roof top siren Civil Defense yellow, it will look nifty! Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5013	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville

Civil Defense Yellow BOY does that bring back memories. Now we're showing our age!!! For those here who don't have a clue, center line strip yellow is a good aproximation. (go out and look at a street for an example) And I have to read this on a Friday?? S David D. Don't forget all; S-trains chat on Sunday afternoon/evening. (Since I'm on the "Left coast" it's a bit early for me, I may still be on the road from in-laws visit, but I'll try to be there).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5014	From: finerty, paul	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: 654 chassis

Does anyone know where I can acquire a 654 chassis with or without the railing intact? I have a red shell that has no way to join his buddies riding around the layout. I found the shell in a box a long time ago at grandpa's house, but no chassis anywhere around. Thanks in advance...... Paul Finerty

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5015	From: L Montgomery	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 373

>Message: 20 > Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:50:18 -0700 > From: "Ross M Roberts Sandra L Roberts" <roberts2@...> >Subject: carnival rides > >>Does anyone know if there are any carnival rides produces in S or heaven forbid and please forgive me) O gauge? > >Try: > >Reed Scale Amusements Co. >6420 Peardale Road East >Columbus OH 43229 > >They offer approx. 20 carnival type rides with prices from $400 to $800 > >They said that most of them approximate 1/64 scale. They offer a video of the rides interspersed with Department 56 buildings and some Plasticville buildings. > >(based on their 1996 price list and a letter they sent me) > Gee. There's apparently a big enough market for scale carnival rides that they can sell 20 different types for $400-$800 per ride. These collectors must REALLY have some disposable income. At the risk of sounding like a broken record broken record, I keep preaching about how the ceramic village (e.g., Department 56) collectors might be a potential market for S scale accessories. I think David D (forgive me if I'm mistaken) made a similar argument vis-a-vis collectors of die cast vehicles. Both hobbies seem to have a significant amount of "approximately 1/64" products but there doesn't seem to be much cross-marketing. For example, I suspect you could sell more Schwanns and Krispy Kreme trucks if they had a sticker that said something like "Perfect for many holiday village scenes". I could be wrong, but I think most S scale figures, signs, street lights, fences etc. could be marketed with the same sticker and appeal to a larger market. Just charge the "village people" two or three times the normal price since they can afford it (just kidding) and use the profits to subsidize <FILL IN ITEM 1 FROM YOUR S WISH LIST>. Monty Yuletide Flyer Operator --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5016	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: GFI's

There was recently a thread on GFI (ground fault interrupter) sockets on S-list. There was one really informative reply from an electrician. Unfortunately, I can't find it in the archives. Does anyone have it? As I recall, he said it was not a good idea, but I can't remember if this was just in response to someone who was getting shocks from their transformer or whether it applied to layouts in general. Also, does anyone have a definitive viewpoint on whether these sockets are an effective safety device for our layouts? Has anyone used them successfully? Thanks, Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5017	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Trasnsformer problem

I have an old AF 8B transformer with the oval case and wooden handle. I took the circuit breaker apart and didn't get it back together right. Is there any source of info on how the thing should be assembled? Otherwise I'm into trial and error. -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5018	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: AMERICAN FLYER 45 WATT TRANSFORMER

I SORRY TO POST THIS QUESTION TWICE...I DID NOT GET ANY RESPONSES.....I WANTED TO KNOW IF THERE IS A RULE OF THUMB ON HOW MANY LIGHTS YOU CAN SAFELY PUT ON A DEDICATED TRANSFORMER....THESE ARE 12 VOLT BULBS..WHICH I AM ONLY RUNNING 10 VOLTS THRU...TO SAVE THE BULBS....I AM USING THE 7-15 VIOLT SIDE...THIS TRANSFORMER AFTER ABOUT 2 HOURS IS VERY WARM TO THE TOUCH ...BUT I DO NOT SMELL ANYTHING BURNING...I HAVE ABOUT 20 LIGHTS ON IT AT THIS TIME....OR SHOULD I GO WITH A 100 WATT TRANSFORMER...I AM NOT RUNNING ANY ACCES ON THIS...ONLY LIGHTS....FEEL FREE TO GIVE ME YOUR THOUGHTS.....THANKS, JEFF

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5019	From: S-Trains-owner@onelist.com	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, September 19, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5020	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/17/1999
Subject: Re: AMERICAN FLYER 45 WATT TRANSFORMER

Jeff, Well, I was thinking of using "Ohms law" to figure this out, but too many variables! The bulbs originally were rated at design voltage, and you're running them lower, so there goes that figure. And then, some of your bulbs could be the imported substitutes, and they aren't consistant either! So the best advice my electrician friend gave me is, "feel the transformer, if it's getting too hot, you're pushing the envelope." I said, "OK, seat of the pants stuff, or is this CYA?" <G> So there's the advice from here! I'm off to a get together in Sacramento area with some AF folks, gonna take a train to run! Later! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5021	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Electrical Considerations

Tom Jarcho wrote: >There was recently a thread on GFI's (ground fault interrupters). >Does anyone have a definitive viewpoint on whether these sockets are an effective safety >device for our layouts? Tom: Luxury condominiums use them at every outlet but that doesn't make them necessary. A GFI protects a user from potentially deadly shocks resulting from incidental simultaneous contact with Neutral (the white wire in household circuitry) and Ground. These two terminate together on the same bus at the service entry panel of the building, however, while ground carries no current at zero potential (voltage), neutral carries away "waste" electricity, the unused current as passed from any device in the line. Under certain conditions, this "neutral current" can become quite high. Early contact (upstream from the grounded bus) between neutral and ground represents a short to ground (a ground fault). If your body is the conductor that makes this contact, it can be deadly. A Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor protects areas of circuitry where such contact is likely. For instance, GFCI's are always used in bathrooms and kitchens because plumbing, particularly the cold water pipe, provides a solid ground path and an appliance plugged in there could have a neutral in contact with it's metal case parts. Toy train transformers have traditionally had no ground connection. Old transformers predate the use of three pronged plugs and newer units use double insulation technology to keep the cases free of the circuits. Unless you are grounding all of your equipment and protecting users from incidental contact between neutral and ground, GFCI's will yield no benefit for you. If any portion of your railroad runs outside, however, a GFCI will be mandatory, by law and code. Jeffrey Burnatowski wrote: >I WANTED TO KNOW IF THERE IS A RULE OF THUMB ON HOW MANY LIGHTS YOU >CAN SAFELY PUT ON A DEDICATED TRANSFORMER....THESE ARE 12 VOLT >BULBS..WHICH I AM ONLY RUNNING 10 VOLTS THRU...TO SAVE THE BULBS. Jeff: Turn off the caps, please! Ohm's Law, referred to by David Dewey, will do you no good here unless you have an ohmeter and can measure the reistance of the bulbs. If you can, then don't measure the resistance of each bulb, but rather, measure the entire bulb circuit by disconnecting it from the transformer. Ohm's Law; I=E/R will now apply, where E=10 volts and R= the ohm reading from your meter. Readings of less than 1 ohm should be entered as a decimal, since this formula is figured for resistance in whole ohms. Divide, and your answer will be the current drawn by the bulb circuit in amps. Then use the power law; IE=P and multiply 10 volts times the ampere answer you got from the previous equation. Your answer will be power measured in Watts. If this number exceeds the wattage output rating of your transformer (or VA; VoltAmp rating) by a significant amount, then you are overdrawn at the bank of electrons. Hope this was helpful, Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5022	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Re: AMERICAN FLYER 45 WATT TRANSFORMER

In a message dated 9/17/99 7:11:06 PM, findit@... writes: << I WANTED TO KNOW IF THERE IS A RULE OF THUMB ON HOW MANY LIGHTS YOU CAN SAFELY PUT ON A DEDICATED TRANSFORMER. >> A rule of thumb that I use is 3 rated watts per bulb. If you take a transformer more than half way towards it's maximum rating doing this, don't plan on running any trains (particularly big passenger sets) from the same transformer. Connecting a few momentary usage motor-activated accessories (but, NOT solenoid-activated accesories like the the No. 596 water tank) will probably be OK, however. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5023	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Front truck for a 290 steamer

Some one on the list was looking for a front truck for a 290 steamer. We had been in contact and my computer went south a couple of weeks ago and a I lost all the info and addresses of those people I had been coresponding with through e-mail. If you are still interested I will sent this truck out to you USPS no charge. It just needs to find a home where it will be used. The number on the truck is PA10012. It is in excellent shape and I don't think it has ever been used. Please note it is the truck only and will need the rivet to be assembled to any existing loco. Tom Rolfsmeyer sivlertom@... 520-572-0579

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5024	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: :New England

<<I am going to Burlington, Vt., in about a week, and plan to tour the changing of the colors in that part of the country. Does anyone know of an interesting hobby shop in that area that carries some post war A.F.? I don't want to miss anything A.F. related in a 3 or 4 state area while I am there (museums, lay-outs, etc.) >> Check out Newburyport on the map, Mike. Right on the NH border, at the ocean. It's a nice place to spend a day.....not to mention the surrounding area of Gloucester, Rockport, Salem, etc....... and then we're open evenings and weekends. Doug Peck 978-465-8798 (Phone or Fax)--7PM - 9:30 PM EST only Port Lines Hobby Supply 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5025	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Re: carnival rides

> From: Ben Kronenwetter <bg@...> > > Does anyone know if there are any carnival rides produces in S or > (heaven forbid and please forgive me) O gauge? Ertl has an inexpensive 1/64th county fair set which has a merry-go-round and ferris wheel, along with some painted figures and carnival booths. It's just a toy set, but it's kinda cool and my 5 year old loves to play with it while watching the trains.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5026	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Re: Plasticville

> From: "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> > > Hi, > > Has anyone purchased "New Plasticville" buildings lately?...I purchase a > coal loader and airport administration building...I am amased of the > very poor quality...stuff does not fit...etc...know it makes sense why > the old stuff is so expensive....they stay together..Jeff I too recently got the airport building and saw something like what you're talking about. I had to take it back once because a piece was broken, and in the one that I ended up with, the bigger pieces had a slight warp, coupled with the fact that the pieces seemed slicker or shinier than the older stuff which resulted in less friction at connection joints. The pins on ladder to the control tower would not stay in the holes in the roof at all! Anyway I glued it all together with Elmer's glue and perhaps the pieces will develop a more correct "set" and maybe then I can wash off the glue and it will stay together like the old pieces do.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5027	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 374

In a message dated 9/18/99 7:02:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << I am going to Burlington, Vt., in about a week, and plan to tour the changing of the colors in that part of the country. Does anyone know of an interesting hobby shop in that area that carries some post war A.F.? >> There is a train show in Rutland, VT on Saturday, September 25 at the Vermont State Fairgrounds on Rt. 7. There will be some AF there.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5028	From: John Foley	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: Signs

>Delivered-To: foley164@... >X-Sender: foley164@... >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) >Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:28:51 -0700 >To: foley164@... >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: Signs > >>Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 19:28:27 -0700 >>To: S-Scale >>From: John Foley <foley164@...> >>Subject: Signs >> >>Hi Folks >> >> I found a website with some great looking >>lighted sign kits. Looks like some possibilities in S. >>Prices seem reasonable. Go to http://www.microstru.com >>then click on EL Lighting. >> >> John > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5029	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 9/18/1999
Subject: RULE OF THUMB: HOW MANY LIGHTS ON A DEDICATED TRANSFORMER

No rule of thumb will do here. Measure the current. Lacking this capability, add up the rated current for each of the lamps. Watts = Volts X amperes. Don't try to extract every last watt from there 50 something transformers, leave some margin for the safety of the transformer and yourself. Alan Udy, Rocky Mountain Highrailers ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5030	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Re: A Fitting End

>Chris, >My 21145 will never be sold. Most likely will >go to a nephew who is crazy about trains. Influenced by me of course. This year >he's five and I going to send him a starter set Atlantic with Choo-choo and >three frieght cars lighted caboose and track with transformer. >Tom Rolfsmeyer Tom: Interesting concept. I bought my nephew all those Learning Curve Thomas sets (wooden pull-toys on track.). I figured that when he got older (he's just 2), I'd get him into electric trains, but I wasn't thinking Flyer because there is no current production. However, the cool part of collecting is that you can become the "store" for the next generation. I could send him a "new" Flyer catalog every year starting with, say, 1951, and let him make his own wish list, and then by Christmas his parents could tell me which set he likes and I'll "pull it from stock". When I started to put on weight, my wife got me a Christmas card that, on the front, said, "It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas!", and inside it said, " . . .and you're beginning to look a lot like Santa!" My childhood is over, someone else's has begun. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5031	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: American Flyer 45 watt transformer

Hello, I wish to thank all that responded to my "lighting " concerns with this transformer...I will upgrade to a 4b to handle this load..regards from the Lehigh Valley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5032	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: American Flyer Whistle Billboards

I thought I pass this along...I have 3 AF Whistle billboards...I hooked them up in a series to the rear of my layout...spaced apart ,on it own dedicated transformer...the sound is terrific...almost like stereo...worth a try...Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5033	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Re: S-Helper switches

Dear Paul, Yes, the 24" and 29" track is now in stock. I just returned from Hong Kong and I am hoping to report to the list on my trip. I am a bit tired and trying to get through the 300 e-mail messages waiting for me after the trip. The tooling on the switches is progressing with test shots expected in December and production to start in 2000. Two delays in the tooling were due to an increased length of the coil and adding a second socket to the controller so that one controller and control two switches for crossover use. The #3 turnout is for use with AF or AF comp. wheels only. It will not support the code 110 or 125 wheels. "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > Any word on the switches yet, Don? For that matter, > what are the specs (ie: Are they power-routed? Do they > work with scale equipment too)? > > Paul Schneider, happy as hell with the first S Helper > track he's bought.. and anxious to expand his living > room floor empire. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5034	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: What Kind of money to take to York?

I am planning my first trip to York in October. I am also a brand new (probationary member) of TCA. The thing I am trying to figure out, is how to carry money to York. I am traveling from Florida, and do not look forward to carrying a lot of cash. But, I am concerned that my checks might not be accepted for a purchase(s), or that the seller might not be able to take credit cards. Would you expect most sellers willing to accept American Express Travelers Checks? Are there any other ideas. Would appreciate suggestions from experienced Yorkers. Thanks, Chuck

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5035	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: $

All original us money is recommended. No repros. T

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5036	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Syracuse NY train show

Hello S'ers: There's a train show in Syracuse this fall that some of my pals in Ottawa are talking about driving down to. Is there much S scale at this show? thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5037	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, September 19, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5038	From: Marc McCarron	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Re: York info

Cash cash cash - take only what you are willing to spend- be ware of thievery- not by anyone stealing your cash, but by the sharks in the train halls trying to sell you merchandise. Most of what is being sold are things other people do not want- TCA members have no code of ethics when it comes to selling at York. I have purchased there and been a vendor there, and have learned the hard way many times. Your fellow brethren can be quite dishonest. Carry cash in large bills in your front pocket, not in your wallet, you will not be mugged in the fairgrounds, York is a very safe place. York for the most part is a black market, cash is the norm, and sellers are not reporting capitol gains at tax time, or any income from the sale of trains- checks leave a trail. The Greenberg book is a good guide, there prices are accurate except for accessories (add 20% to 90% depending on the item. Remember, the prices that people desire for their goods are seldom too high, it is simply that they have absolutely no idea of the condition of the piece they are trying to sell. Mint is only a the name of a candy. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Harrington [mailto:paketpet@...] Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 1:33 PM To: S-Trains@onelist.com Subject: [S-Trains] What Kind of money to take to York? From: Chuck Harrington <paketpet@...> I am planning my first trip to York in October. I am also a brand new (probationary member) of TCA. The thing I am trying to figure out, is how to carry money to York. I am traveling from Florida, and do not look forward to carrying a lot of cash. But, I am concerned that my checks might not be accepted for a purchase(s), or that the seller might not be able to take credit cards. Would you expect most sellers willing to accept American Express Travelers Checks? Are there any other ideas. Would appreciate suggestions from experienced Yorkers. Thanks, Chuck Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5039	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: New Survey

Hello, There is a new survey for the S-Trains community. Over the next 12 months how much money do you expect to spend on used Flyer. ---- Possible answers are: o Less than $50 o Less than $100 o Less than $200 o Less than $500 o More than $500 To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.onelist.com/surveys/S-Trains Note: Please do not reply to this message. Survey votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the ONElist website. Thanks! S-Trains Owner

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5040	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Train show

Never get to see large layouts, went to local train show today, some 45 miles away, Muskegon, MI. A block away was the local clubs meeting place, above a historical society. WOW. N, HO, and O ga systems all alive and well, each in a dedicated room! Pretty impressive to see an O tinplate F7 (?) ABBBA streamliner with 9 cars, must have been 12 ft long? And diesel sound from tender VERY fine, esp when starting. Yes some S was for sale at the show, a pacific for about 140 with half one whitewall misssing, an Atlantic for what, $80????? And suprised at some of the poor casting quality of an O ga steamer I saw for sale, was that a LIONel (Isn't that a French made item, like a Peugeot) ???? So I returned with 8 old MRR selected at random for 25c. each and a $10 lil ole HO diesel switcher that grandkids can run the wheels off- pulling the cheapo plastic collection of red and green freight cars my wife bought. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5041	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Volts, amps, and watts

- Greeting`S' - A couple of good items on electrical usage and safety have appeared recently. A modification or two is in order. Ground Fault Interrupter outlets sense the current flowing out the hot wire (black, sometimes red) and that which is returning on the neutral or common wire (white). If the difference is more than about 5 milliamps, then some of the current is taking a wrong path, usually to ground, and the circuit is interrupted. The real danger is getting yourself between the hot wire and ground. This is where 120 volts, for instance, will appear across you. Ouch is the least that can happen to you. Between neutral and ground you may find 2 or 3 volts, not a big worry. A transformer that develops a short between the primary and secondary may make the track and accessory circuits hot. Should this affect you, the GFI should intervene. More often, folks may have other than AF items with 120 volt bulbs on the layout. Pro- tection against touching some of these accessories and the wires is desirable. Of course, knowing what you are doing and not getting careless is the best route to take. Transformers should not be overloaded by drawing too much current. A 15 volt maximum transformer rated at 50 watts should not deliver more than 50/15 = 3 1/3 amps even if you have the transformer set for 7 volts. The wire on the windings inside is good only for 3 1/3 amps. And as was wisely pointed out, back off from that rating a little bit to maybe 2 1/2 amps. Incandescent bulbs with tungsten filaments (that is practically all incandescent bulbs) are little deceivers. When cold, the resistance may be 10% of the value at rated voltage. Tungsten resistors (bulbs) are not linear with respect to temperature. A 100 watt, 120 volt bulb will probably measure 10 to 14 ohms at room temperature. A little arithmetic will demonstrate that the resistance has to in- crease more than 10 times as the filament heats up to normal glow. Did not mean to preach so much electrical engineering here. I just do every so often. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5042	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: switching layout plans

Someone e mailed me earlier regarding the plan of my switching layout and I suggested they sketch a few out.... Literally every issue of MRR has several layouts, simply cutting and pasting xerox plans is a good start. I did find in even issues several years old computer programs for planning. A pad of 1/4" or 1/8" grid paper is a great start, if its a tracing paper U can easily do overlays to change without erasing. Start with plan #1 and number each variation successively so U can easily know what is what later, even date em. Would not have sent this to 'the group' but somehow lost the name of whoever asked. I beg your indulgence! L. PS- Latest issue of MRR has nice trolley layout that might have some possililities too. Xerox at yer local library!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5043	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Special Run S-Helper Service PS-2's

Just a friendly note for those who might be interested and are not TCA members -- For the TCA 2000 National Convention, S-Helper Service is producing the S gauge cars -- a 2 car set of PS-2 covered hoppers painted in the Ann Arbor RR orange scheme. Here's what it says in the promotional flyer: " Ann Arbor RR Covered Hopper 2 Car Set. These PS-2 two bay covered hoppers manufactured by Pullman Standard were used for ferry service (note the special "Ferry in Fog" placards). The run from Detroit to Wisconsin via the (Frankfort) railroad ferry across Lake Michigan saved time and many miles around the great lake. These near scale models have hive diecast sprung and equalized trucks with Hi-Rail wheels and knuckle couplers, AB brake system details and scale body detailing. Scale wheels are also provided and mounting for Kadee(TM) couplers. The TCA convention information is on the outside of the hopper bin behind the end structure. The prototypical orange paint will liven up two rail layouts and collections." Price is $73.00 per 2 car set. A color photo is provided in Sept 99 issue of National Headquarter News. The photo shows road numbers 781 and 789. TCA members may order as many of these convention cars as desired. Orders must be received/postmarked by December 31. 1999. Regards Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5044	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Re: York info

Your post reminded me of a story told me by a friendly dealer. He once went to a show with nothing but Mint in Box trains. He stuck an after-dinner mint in each box!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5045	From: Don Thompson	Date: 9/19/1999
Subject: Re: York info

Dear Mark, I cannot speak for all vendors, but most of the business that S Helper Service does at York is credit cards. We trust our customers and do not call the orders in until after the show. After that checks. We do some cash too, but it is not the majority. We also have a money back guarntee policy on any item purchased. We give reciepts too! Marc McCarron wrote: > From: "Marc McCarron" <mrmccarron@...> > > Cash cash cash - take only what you are willing to spend- be ware of > thievery- not by anyone stealing your cash, but by the sharks in the train > halls trying to sell you merchandise. Most of what is being sold are > things other people do not want- TCA members have no code of ethics when it > comes to selling at York. I have purchased there and been a vendor there, > and have learned the hard way many times. Your fellow brethren can be > quite dishonest. Carry cash in large bills in your front pocket, not in > your wallet, you will not be mugged in the fairgrounds, York is a very safe > place. York for the most part is a black market, cash is the norm, and > sellers are not reporting capitol gains at tax time, or any income from the > sale of trains- checks leave a trail. The Greenberg book is a good guide, > there prices are accurate except for accessories (add 20% to 90% depending > on the item. Remember, the prices that people desire for their goods are > seldom too high, it is simply that they have absolutely no idea of the > condition of the piece they are trying to sell. Mint is only a the name of > a candy. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chuck Harrington [mailto:paketpet@...] > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 1:33 PM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] What Kind of money to take to York? > > From: Chuck Harrington <paketpet@...> > > I am planning my first trip to York in October. I am also a brand new > (probationary member) of TCA. The thing I am trying to figure out, is > how to carry money to York. I am traveling from Florida, and do not look > forward to carrying a lot of cash. But, I am concerned that my checks > might not be accepted for a purchase(s), or that the seller might not be > able to take credit cards. Would you expect most sellers willing to > accept American Express Travelers Checks? Are there any other ideas. > Would appreciate suggestions from experienced Yorkers. > > Thanks, Chuck > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5046	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: Plasticville, York, Planks

I recently bought a new Plasticville Union station. Its quality, fit, colors, etc. were fine. I might try their re-release of the signal bridge due out this or next month, but it's silver instead of black. I've only been a TCA member a couple of years. The next York will only be my fourth or fith, but I take cash, checks and credit card(s). I've typically utilized all three forms of payment depending on what I buy and how much I spend. Most sellers accept cash and checks, many dealers accept credit cards as well. I tried some of Doug Peck's (Port Line Hobbies) replacement sawmill planks. They worked well.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5047	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: Watts next...

What minimum watt transformer would you recommend to run two trains on the same loop? Let's assume the engines are a 303 and a 293 and each are pulling six ACG AF freight cars (box, gondola, hopper - - not the "heavies"). The loop, actually an oval, is level and roughly a scale quarter mile (~240") in length. Would it make any difference if the two engines are diesels (e.g. single motor geep, or two-motor PA)? You may pick up your pencils (calculators, mainframes, whatever it takes)......now,

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5048	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 376

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5049	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: York - Cash?

We buy and sell at York also, we take credit cards, checks and cash. Though most of our sales are in cash that does not mean people don't use other methods of payment. There is also an ATM cash machine at the Fairgrounds just in case. Robin Vanacore

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5050	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: Re: York

In a message dated 9/20/99 5:56:02 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << Most of what is being sold are things other people do not want- TCA members have no code of ethics when it comes to selling at York. >> Wow.....talk about painting everyone with the same broom! Now I'm NOT a big TCA fan...even though "I IS a member"....but that's a rather harsh statement to make as a generalization. And frankly, I think it is MORE applicable to the run-of-the-mill train weekend shows that are populated by many "gypsy" train dealers. Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5051	From: Neil Trump	Date: 9/21/1999
Subject: York meet

To all who are going to York: I'm flying over across the pond with another AF collector/operator for the York show, I'd be interested to meet up with any one from the list for a chat etc either at the show or outside for a beer or two, three or more and talk trains etc. Problem is how do we all meet up!. We are stopping over with Gary Kliman (sp) for an evening or so and I think I'll be running his stall for a while so this could be a starting point for a contact, GK I think is in the Red Hall. Any takers!! Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5052	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: derails and semaphores

A couple of weeks ago I sent a note to the list saying that the Canadian S scale group was trying to get enough orders for an S scale derail switch and CN and CP style semaphores. A number of you asked questions I couldn't answer. Well I finally tracked down Neil Froese, the gent handling the project, and he has a new e-mail address. It's enfroese@... so ask him all your questions about how the derails and semaphores would work. Remember the American dollar goes a long way up here and you are supporting a good cause. thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5053	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 9/21/1999
Subject: Flying Yankee

Hi Guy"S" ; I hope more of you will order the "Flying Yankee" from Sunset Models. This also was called "The Mountaineer" See the article in the B&M Bulletin Summer 1976 if you have a copy. The actual train is currently being rebuilt at the expense of the State of NH. This is no ordinary train. It has more history to it than most trains. At least in this region of the country. Consider, the value of this model will (hopefully) increase as time goes by. How often does a train model value decrease ? How can you justify this train on your layout. Tell your viewers it is passing through on tour. Every region of the country has a unusal train pass through now and then. This would be a valuable item for your collection. I ordered one and will be very pleased when it arrives. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5054	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 9/21/1999
Subject: 787 log loader?

Well, it finally came after two weeks waiting for it, it arrived here today. Of course the first thing I had to do was check it out and make sure it works. Well it does for one log at a time but when I put three logs on the platform it only picks up the first one and then the other two can't decide who goes first so the wire rides up on top of one and misses picking up the raised one. Do any of you supreemly experienced people know how to adjust this 787 log loader to pick up the logs every time? Please help. Thanks Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5055	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/21/1999
Subject: Plasticville

I too recently bought a Plasticville Union station. This was my very first *new* Plasticville, and I am thrilled with it--it's a *great* value for the money. Until this kit, my only experience with Plasticville has been by assembling the "junk-box-under-the-table" bargains from train meets that are usually incomplete, stained with glue, and in serious need of a good bath. (SoftScrub with bleach cleans them up quite nicely! The bleach brightens the whites quite well!) The Union station kit I received was missing the "Union Station" stick-on decal for the front of the building. I wrote a letter to Bachmann, following the instructions clearly outlined on the instruction sheet for missing parts. Within a week I received the decal in a #10 envelope. As a printer I'm not impressed with the decal...think I'll probably make my own...but nonetheless I was impressed with the speed in which Bachmann responded. Mistakes will happen...what counts is that Bachmann is customer-service minded enough to have anticipated the possibility of missing parts and included instructions on what I should do to obtain the missing part. More importantly, they responded quickly. Based on this one experience, I'll be buying more NEW Plasticville! -=[ Brian ]=- _______________________________________________________ Old Cowboy Insight: Don't interfere with something that ain't botherin' you none. _______________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5056	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 9/20/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 376

There is an ATM "cash" machine at the York Fairgrounds. --- Nick Colleran >Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:32:48 -0400 > From: Chuck Harrington <paketpet@...> >Subject: What Kind of money to take to York? > >I am planning my first trip to York in October. I am also a brand new >(probationary member) of TCA. The thing I am trying to figure out, is >how to carry money to York. I am traveling from Florida, and do not look >forward to carrying a lot of cash. But, I am concerned that my checks >might not be accepted for a purchase(s), or that the seller might not be >able to take credit cards. Would you expect most sellers willing to >accept American Express Travelers Checks? Are there any other ideas. >Would appreciate suggestions from experienced Yorkers. > >Thanks, Chuck

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5057	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/21/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 376

You know, nowadays we know that Dorothy didn't really want to go home, she wanted to go shopping--that's why she kept saying, "AnTy eM" Bad Puns r Us David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5058	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/22/1999
Subject: Re: Flying Yankee

At 01:46 PM 09/21/1999 -0700, Roger Hinds wrote: >From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > >Hi Guy"S" ; > > I hope more of you will order the "Flying Yankee" from Sunset Models. > >This also was called "The Mountaineer" > >See the article in the B&M Bulletin Summer 1976 if you have a copy. > >The actual train is currently being rebuilt at the expense of the State >of NH. Roger et. al. Here's an excerpt from a note I posted recently to several other lists. It has some online sites for more info on the Flying Yankee... ----------- For those of us who enjoy New England railroading, what a great opportunity -- a scale model of the Flying Yankee for our home/office/layout, and if all goes as planned, the real Flying Yankee restored to operation! For those not familiar with the Flying Yankee, or those who want to know more about the Flying Yankee Restoration project, and plans for the Flying Yankee into the 21st Century, or who want a little more of its history, or want to get involved in supporting the restoration, check the Flying Yankee web site at: http://www.flyingyankee.com/ Another great web site to check is: http://www.stuart-fl.com/flyy.html It contains a reprint of Carl Byron's TRAINS magazine article on the Flying Yankee. Also the TRAINS Classic Feb 1999 issue contains a great article by Carl Byron on the Flying Yankee -- see: http://www2.mrmag.com/trains/Magazine/Annual.html Also this site: http://mikes.railhistory.railfan.net/r016.html has a brief history of Speed Trains in North America. And some more photos at: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/diesel32.html Enjoy! Michael Greene

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5059	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/22/1999
Subject: DCC in Flyer

Thanks to Michael Greene I finally installed a DG380 decoder in PA with twin motors. Was able to assign to the throttle and everything worked great for about 5 minutes. Then the train stopped for a minute, ran 4 feet, stopped for a minute, ran 4 feet etc, etc, etc. What's happening? Does each motor need a decoder? John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5060	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 9/22/1999
Subject: Lehigh Valley Models

Kind of a "plug" here. I just built the latest of the Lehigh Valley Models cars, the Milwaukee Road Horizontal Rib Boxcar. What fun!! I saw it mentioned in the latest issue of S Gaugian. You can get with scale trucks and kadees, or Hirail trucks and couplers.Because the prototype was welded, rather than riveted, lack of rivets isn't a problem, This is an old-fashioned kit, with a few cast and stamped metal parts, a lot of basswood, and a little plastruct. The instructions are adequate if you have built a few craftsman kits, but need a little filling in between the lines. Nonetheless, it is a blast to build and is a great way to get a car that is too rare to be made in S in plastic. I have build 2 of the LVM hoppers, 3 of the tank cars, and 3 of the Boxcars (the B&O Wagon Top and the PRR Roundtop too). These cars all are fun to build and teach you enough techniques so that you can scratchbuild almost any freight car you might want on your railroad but is not commercially available (but I use plastruct sheet and strips and a few parts from Grandt Line, Ye Old Puff and Stuff, and S Scenery rather than basswood.) Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5061	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/22/1999
Subject: 787 log loader

By now you've probably got that log loader working a little better. If not, here are some suggestions. I'm sure other guys will have some, too. 1. Your hook may be bent a little out of alignment. View the loader's action from the side.You may get better results if you reshape the ends a little. 2. You can sand down the logs so they are very smooth. This may make them roll more readily. 3. Make sure the bottom is clean and load all the logs from one side. 4. It may help to tilt the accessory a little by putting a strip of cardboard or two under the front or the back edge. 5. You can load this accessory from a #918 log dump car. The log dump car can be closely controlled by a small transformer or rheostat to prevent it's dumping the logs too hard. This is discussed in a recent Roundhouse.(May-June '99 S Gaugian) Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5062	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 9/22/1999
Subject: Fw: Charging for e-mail?

----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 5:20 AM Subject: Charging for e-mail? Have you heard about this? Worth a call to your Senator? Your Newspaper? Post Office's plan to charge us all for e-mail Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay online and continue using email: The last few months have revealed an alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting to quietly push through legislation that will affect your use of the Internet. Under proposed legislation, the U.S. Postal Service will be attempting to bill email users with "alternate postage fees". Bill 602P would permit the Federal Govt to charge a 5 cent surcharge on every email delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at the source. The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP. Washington D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming law. The U.S. Postal Service is claiming that lost revenue (due to the proliferation of email) is costing them nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. You may have noticed their recent ad campaign "There is nothing like a letter". Since the average citizen received about 10 pieces of email per day in 1998, the cost to the typical individual would be an additional 50 cents per day, or over $180 dollars per year, above and beyond their regular Internet costs. Note that this would be money paid directly to the U.S. Postal Service for a service they do not even provide. The whole point of the Internet is democracy and non-interference. If the federal government is permitted to tamper with our liberties by adding a surcharge to email (which they do not even provide), who knows where it will end? You are already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureaucratic inefficiency. It currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from New York to Buffalo. If the U.S. Postal Service is allowed to tinker with email, it will mark the end of the "free" Internet in the United States. One congressman, Tony Schnell (r) has even suggested a "twenty to forty dollar per month surcharge on all Internet service" above and beyond the government's proposed email charges. Note that most of the major newspapers have ignored the story, the only exception being the Washingtonian which called the idea of email surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" (March 6th 1999 Editorial). Don't sit by and watch your freedoms erode away! Send this e-mail to EVERYONE on your list, and tell all your friends and relatives to write to their congressman and say "No!" to Bill 602P. It will only take a few moments of your time, and could very well be instrumental in killing a bill we don't want. Kate Turner Assistant to Richard Stepp, Berger, Stepp and Gorman Attorneys at Law 216 Concorde Street, Vienna, VA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5063	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 9/23/1999
Subject: US Postal Service Hoax

The US Postal Service Hoax is making the rounds. If you like I can research any of these things for you. My advise is get involved with govenrment, but do some research first. see http://www.gerlitz.com/virushoax/hoax2.htm#postoffice http://www.newsbytes.com/pubNews/131004.html http://www.canoe.ca/TechNews9904/21_hoax.html http://www.usps.gov/news/press/99/99045new.htm PS I use Altavista (http://www.altavista.com/cgi-bin/query?pg=aq&what=web) and for "Enter boolean expression:" I used "(602P) and (hoax)" without the quotes. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5064	From: Allen Evans	Date: 9/23/1999
Subject: ITS BOGUS - 5 Cent Charge For E-Mail

The e-mail about charging 5 cents each e-mail is totally false, and only intended to stir people up and get them to bombard Congress and their local Post Office with sensless e-mail. There is no bill 602P. The person who alledgedly wrote the e-mail does not exist. Do not respond to that kind of e-mail. Do not circulate it. Allen Evans Covington, LA Crescent City S Gaugers NASG, NMRA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5065	From: Scott Holm	Date: 9/23/1999
Subject: Internet hoaxes

Some great web sites to research virus alerts, chain letters, and other stuff that people send you and ask you to forward to all your friends: http://kumite.com/myths/ http://www.urbanlegends.com/ http://www.snopes.com/ http://urbanlegends.about.com/ http://korova.com/virus/hoax.htm http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACChainLetters.html On one of these I learned today that driving barefoot is not illegal!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5066	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/23/1999
Subject: Re: Internet hoaxes

In a message dated 9/23/99 3:34:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, imsscott@... writes: << On one of these I learned today that driving barefoot is not illegal! >> I had so many people argue with me that it was that I once called the state police and asked. Their response: "No, why would it be?" John Craft

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5067	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/23/1999
Subject: Assorted photo albums

Here's a few photos that might be of interest to some folks: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=75603&a=676487 This album has some photos take at the recent September meeting of the Bristol Club. The meeting was hosted by member Tom Robichaud. Theses pictures were taken by Bill Clark and Michael Greene. Questions regarding Tom's layout can be directed to him at mailto:a1dude@... http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=75603&a=676761 This album has some photos I took Wednesday night during National Convention week in St. Paul, MN. The photos includes are mostly prototype scenes in St. Paul that evening, but also include a few photos from a DCC clinic at the NMRA convention. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=75603&a=702221 This album contains a few pictures of the new Pennsylvania Heritage Models RDC. One of the members of the Bristol Club brought his to the Sept meeting where these pictures were taken. The pictures were not taken under the best of conditions for detailed close-ups of models, but should give a glimpse of this new addition to the S family. Enjoy! Michael Greene

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5068	From: M.McConnell	Date: 9/23/1999
Subject: Fake message

Bill - Paul is correct, this message falls into the "gotcha" category. There is no bill 602p, I've seen this message more than once over the last several years, and it seems to be making its rounds again. The same thing goes for about a dozen other kinds of messages of this ilk. They are a form of 'virus', they live on everytime you e-mail it to someone else. Message: 4 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:37:20 -0600 From: "Bill Sandrus" <borj@...> Subject: Fw: Charging for e-mail? ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 5:20 AM Subject: Charging for e-mail? Have you heard about this? Worth a call to your Senator? Your Newspaper?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5069	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: promoting S

I have now seen in one of the commercial RR mags and more lately the NMRA Bulletin excellent photos of Tom Lennon's 0-8-0 that won first place in this year's NMRA steam loco model contest. It's a beaut that started life as an American Flyer unit and has been extensively rebuilt.. Now this kind of modeling is the best way to promote S scale. I sure hope someone (maybe the NASG bulletin) will get Tom to explain how the model was made. Anyway if you haven't seen the loco checks the mags for a photo. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5070	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 380

In a message dated 99/09/24 4:18:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=75603&a=676487< etc Hope U all checked out the fine shots, makes for nice casual browsing. assume it was a digital still camera and not camcorder? thanx again. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5071	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 380

At 08:30 AM 09/24/1999 -0400, LARSPAINTR@... wrote: >From: LARSPAINTR@... > >In a message dated 99/09/24 4:18:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >S-Trains@onelist.com writes: > > > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=75603&a=676487< > etc > >Hope U all checked out the fine shots, makes for nice casual browsing. > >assume it was a digital still camera and not camcorder? > >thanx again. >L. Glad you enjoyed them! Yes the pictures were all take with digital cameras. The ones I took were using a Nikon Coolpix 950 at 1600x1200 and post-processed using Ulead PhotoImpact 4.2 to 640x480 resolution for posting. The ones taken by Bill Clark were using one of the latest model Olympus digital cameras (forget the exact model), and I believe post processed as well to reduce the resolution for posting. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5072	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: Train stamps

Run do not walk to the nearest Postal Service facility to buy about $50 of the new train stamps. Has such as the Daylight, 20th Cent Ltd, Congressional (GG1), Hiawatha, Super Chief, etc. I still have some of the 29c. old timers I use on occasion. Or at least one sheet. Jest fer fun. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5073	From: Richard	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: Steam Depot Diesels

Rummaging throught some old mags(mine) the other day I found an oldish (early 90's) Steam Depot Catalog...funny how you often see things differently years late..(probably explains why I dont throw these things out) Amongst the pages were mentions of a GP38-2 and A GE 44 Tonner....both using "plastic" bodies...have to admit I was not aware that a GP38-2 was available. I'm in the proces of resaearching what IS available , and indeed what was available. Given their era I thought both a little pricy (when all things purchased) Can any learned folk fill me in on these items.....were they good models.....do Plastic shells for these locos indeed exist???? Any background and info truly appreciated. cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5074	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5075	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/24/1999
Subject: Lledo

>It measures out to about 19.5 feet bumper to bumper, about 5.8 feet inside >wheel to inside wheel along the axle, and about 7.7 feet across the running >boards in the middle of the door area. I use 6 foot wide for cars and pickups, 8 foot wide for large trucks as a general rule of thumb for S scale vehicles. Obviously, compact cars will be narrower. A Caddy or other large car might be 6 inches wider. If you have a reply for me, please do it off-line. I am unable to read all of the S-Trains digest. Not enuf time in the day. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Train Watching Along the Erie Canal http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5076	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: can't we all just get along (a flange question)

I recently bought a copy of CLASSIC TOY TRAINS' *Toy Train Layout Tour* book, which includes Roy Hoffman's S-gauge Penn Western. One of the things that intrigued me about Roy's layout is that he combines tinplate and scale on the same layout. Differentl photos show a Flyer Northern, an American Models FP7 and a Overland brass SD40-2. Roy writes that he uses code 172 flextrack and some code 125 rail. What I wonder is: Does anyone know how he manages to operate Flyer and scale equipment through the same switches? I thought hi-rail flanges were incompatible with scale switches? Or did Roy convert his S-scale equipment to hi-rail flanges (as a friend of mine suggested). If you ask me, the mix of scale and AF equipment looks pretty damned good! Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5077	From: MICHAEL J. HOLLAND	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: Fun Info

Ted, Both Mike S and I have been currently building kits from Lehigh Valley Models. Also, Harry and I are working on all the structures for my modules. They don't seem to hard. The best and only kit built is one from BTS. All of Lehigh Valley kits are made out of resin instead of plastic. Hope this helps you. If you have any more questions please ask. Michael J. Holland President of Genesee & Great Western Member of Rochester Area S Gaugers, NASG,NMRA,TTOS Member of Pennsylvania Railroad Technical and Historical Society ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5078	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)

Paul, If you use CLOSED FROG turnouts you can operate scale, hi-rail and flyer together. On my home layout I use converted American Models turnouts. I removed molded in plastic guard rail and made two new ones from code 148 rail. I then super guled the new guard rails up against the spike on the inside of the turnout, one on the straight side and one on the curved side. I can operate scale and hi-rail together, but have had some problems with AF. As I have very little Flyer left for me it is not a problem. I am currently rebuilding a AF 293 loco, I have carefully regauged the drive wheels,using a NASG standards gauge, replaced the pilot wheels with hi-rail wheel sets from Ace/Downs and as soon as they arrive I will place S-Helper Service caboose trucks under the tender. With all of the new track products coming out on the market we now have the ability to run everything together. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5079	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)

Referring to RoyHoffman's Penn Western, Marc McCarron <mrmccarron@...> wrote: > I don't think the northern is tinplate > To which Paul replies: The photo on page 93 reads, "Union Pacific No. 813 is an American Flyer 4-8-4 withsheet metal smoke deflectors added and featuring a special paint job." The "deck" (subtitle) of the article reads, "A love for American Flyer gives this modern layout a traditional look."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5080	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: New Project Announcement

Howdy Friends Since things are finally moving, figured it was time to let you in on the secret; after almost five years of planning, too many frustrating dead ends, and countless letters and faxes that received negative replys, we have found a locomotive builder willing to do projects for us in very low numbers. Work is now underway on the first of several small steam locomotives in S scale. These will be available in kits, semi-kits with assembled mechanisms, and painted, ready-to-run. They will consist of photoetched brass, lost-wax brass detail castings, white-metal boilers and castings, urethane castings, NWSL gears, and Mashima motors. Assembly will require light soldering, and basic modeling skills and hand tools; just about everyone in S scale has the ability to assemble one of these kits. Photos of the first three are now on our web site at: http://www.btsrr.com/btsloco.htm Prices are still being finalized, and will be posted to the web shortly. The first run of any locomotive will be a total of 50 units, mixed between kits, semi-kits, and R-T-R based upon orders. While it is our intent to have these locos available as stock items, the ones with low response will probably not be re-run. Other locos are on the production list, but we will not discuss them until the first ones are done. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5081	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] New Project Announcement

I think you have just hit the mother load. This to me seems like a great idea. Larry Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S. wrote: > From: "Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S." <wadepub@...> > > Howdy Friends > > Since things are finally moving, figured it was time to let you in on > the secret; after almost five years of planning, too many frustrating > dead ends, and countless letters and faxes that received negative > replys, we have found a locomotive builder willing to do projects for us > in very low numbers. > > Work is now underway on the first of several small steam locomotives in > S scale. These will be available in kits, semi-kits with assembled > mechanisms, and painted, ready-to-run. They will consist of photoetched > brass, lost-wax brass detail castings, white-metal boilers and castings, > urethane castings, NWSL gears, and Mashima motors. > > Assembly will require light soldering, and basic modeling skills and > hand tools; just about everyone in S scale has the ability to assemble > one of these kits. > > Photos of the first three are now on our web site at: > http://www.btsrr.com/btsloco.htm > > Prices are still being finalized, and will be posted to the web shortly. > > The first run of any locomotive will be a total of 50 units, mixed > between kits, semi-kits, and R-T-R based upon orders. While it is our > intent to have these locos available as stock items, the ones with low > response will probably not be re-run. > > Other locos are on the production list, but we will not discuss them > until the first ones are done. > > Take care, > Bill > -- > =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ > Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer > Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 > B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com > S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com > Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5082	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: Re: Steam Depot engines

In a message dated 99-09-25 05:55:32 EDT, you write: << Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:42:21 +1000 From: Richard <richard_snook@...> Subject: Steam Depot Diesels Rummaging throught some old mags(mine) the other day I found an oldish (early 90's) Steam Depot Catalog...funny how you often see things differently years late..(probably explains why I dont throw these things out) Amongst the pages were mentions of a GP38-2 and A GE 44 Tonner....both using "plastic" bodies...have to admit I was not aware that a GP38-2 was available. I'm in the proces of resaearching what IS available , and indeed what was available. Given their era I thought both a little pricy (when all things purchased) Can any learned folk fill me in on these items.....were they good models.....do Plastic shells for these locos indeed exist???? Any background and info truly appreciated. cheers >:~)) Richard >> Richard: I don't believe the GP38-2 project was ever completed, but the 44 ton became available maybe a year or two ago. It comes with a Pennsylvania Heritage modified Athern drive, scale or hirail, with 4 or 8 wheels powered. It comes as an unpainted one piece shell with brass wire supplied to form handrails from. The shell requires a little cleanup to fit the ready to run chassis. The handrails are the only tricky part of the assembly, needing precise bending and soldering. Price was $139.00 or $159.00 for 8 wheel drive when I bought mine. I recommend going for the 8 wheel drive. I'm sure these must be available from Steam Depot, but probably not anywhere else. Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5083	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/25/1999
Subject: Recycling old PCs

Hello Y'all-- The office where I work has an old '486/66 PC sitting in the store room. It's working fine...just too slow to be useful anymore. It's mine for the taking, but I can't figure out what I'd want with it either. Unless... Does anyone know if there is a system for controlling an AC model train layout via a PC? -=[ Brian ]=- ________________________________________________________ Old Cowboy Insight: Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance. ________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5084	From: Richard	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Warning.....blatant advert!!

Folks As a seervice to this gentleman and not wanting you guys to be deprived ( I know you SPF's are depraved already) <snip>Bruce writes... I am an O scaler who came very close to going to s scale (not flyer) and even had bought a Pennsy Brass M1A and N-8 caboose both painted and light weathering, window glass etc. etc. These were a gift from my wife and I have received her blessing to convert them into O. I am just in to deep to make the switch. Thus I would like to sell or trade them. My question is Where? Do the lists you talk of allow ads? Thanks, Bruce <snip> you may amke a Bee line to "Bruce B. Blackwood" <burrett@...> tell him " I sent ya" stop drooling you lot >:~))Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5085	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Re: Steam Depot engines

They are resin bodies done in rubber molds are they not? Larry Bilfrazier@... wrote: > From: Bilfrazier@... > > In a message dated 99-09-25 05:55:32 EDT, you write: > > << Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:42:21 +1000 > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > Subject: Steam Depot Diesels > > Rummaging throught some old mags(mine) the other day I found an oldish > (early 90's) Steam Depot Catalog...funny how you often see things > differently years late..(probably explains why I dont throw these things > out) > Amongst the pages were mentions of a GP38-2 and A GE 44 Tonner....both > using "plastic" bodies...have to admit I was not aware that a GP38-2 was > available. > I'm in the proces of resaearching what IS available , and indeed what > was available. > Given their era I thought both a little pricy (when all things > purchased) > > Can any learned folk fill me in on these items.....were they good > models.....do Plastic shells for these locos indeed exist???? > Any background and info truly appreciated. > > cheers >:~)) Richard > >> > > Richard: > > I don't believe the GP38-2 project was ever completed, but the 44 ton became > available maybe a year or two ago. It comes with a Pennsylvania Heritage > modified Athern drive, scale or hirail, with 4 or 8 wheels powered. It comes > as an unpainted one piece shell with brass wire supplied to form handrails > from. The shell requires a little cleanup to fit the ready to run chassis. > The handrails are the only tricky part of the assembly, needing precise > bending and soldering. Price was $139.00 or $159.00 for 8 wheel drive when I > bought mine. I recommend going for the 8 wheel drive. > I'm sure these must be available from Steam Depot, but probably not anywhere > else. > > Bill Frazier > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5086	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)

Paul, I just got back from the CJSS Fall gettogether. This meet is a good example of scalers and highrailers meeting and having a great time. Lot's of scale and highrail and AF to buy, too. The answer to your question is a little complicated. I have moved on to scale since that article. What I did for switches on the old layout was use some scratch built code 172 switches that I bought from S-scale Loco and Supply when they dismantled their code 172 based layout. For my code 125, I bought some code 125 switches from Earl Eshleman a long time ago. I was able to negotiate the switches OK with both stock AF flanges and ACE highrail flanges. The thing I miss most by going to full scale is running my AF steam. Overall, though, I'm happy with scale but I also look back on my AF and highrail years and enjoyed every minute. It's all part of the greate"S"t scale. Roy -----Original Message----- From: Paul D. Schneider <fasttrack2000@...> To: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Saturday, September 25, 1999 6:21 AM Subject: [S-Trains] can't we all just get along (a flange question) >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > >I recently bought a copy of CLASSIC TOY TRAINS' *Toy >Train Layout Tour* book, which includes Roy Hoffman's >S-gauge Penn Western. > >One of the things that intrigued me about Roy's layout >is that he combines tinplate and scale on the same >layout. Differentl photos show a Flyer Northern, an >American Models FP7 and a Overland brass SD40-2. > >Roy writes that he uses code 172 flextrack and some >code 125 rail. What I wonder is: Does anyone know how >he manages to operate Flyer and scale equipment >through the same switches? I thought hi-rail flanges >were incompatible with scale switches? Or did Roy >convert his S-scale equipment to hi-rail flanges (as a >friend of mine suggested). > >If you ask me, the mix of scale and AF equipment looks >pretty damned good! > >Paul Schneider >San Francisco > >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5087	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)

It was an AF Northern. I naively did it before I knew about collector value. I made the "elephant ears" out of sheet brass and painted it all for the UP. I did get a good price for it when I sold it, but obviously would have gotten more if I had left it alone, but then again I did enjoy it the way I fixed it. Roy - >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > > >Referring to RoyHoffman's Penn Western, Marc McCarron ><mrmccarron@...> wrote: > >> I don't think the northern is tinplate >> >To which Paul replies: > >The photo on page 93 reads, "Union Pacific No. 813 is >an American Flyer 4-8-4 withsheet metal smoke >deflectors added and featuring a special paint job." >The "deck" (subtitle) of the article reads, "A love >for American Flyer gives this modern layout a >traditional look."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5088	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Flying Yankee offering

I apologize if I have missed something, but is not the Flying Yankee and the Burlington's Pioneer Zephyr essentially the same?? If so, what would it take to have a PZ version and expand sales orders accordingly?? In additon to we S gaugers, I am copying this to some non-S (presently) who may be interested.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5089	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)

What is there to cry about? I have a 2-unit coach made from 2 663's that I did in 1960 while still in high school. Also here is the famous Will Estes gascar made from a 653, his Lindberg/Kemtron conversion of a Comet Alco PA (I say Comet because I think that was the only single-motor version); and several of his stretched 652, 654, and 650 cars, plus my own B&O coach made from two 653 coach sections. Before American Models and S-Helper came along, we were scrounging fools. If you want to really go primitive, look at the wood steam engines Mr. Packard started C-D models with in 1937--I now have 2 of those boilers. Roy Hoffman wrote: > From: "Roy Hoffman" <rhoffman@...> > > It was an AF Northern. I naively did it before I knew about collector value. > I made the "elephant ears" out of sheet brass and painted it all for the UP. > I did get a good price for it when I sold it, but obviously would have > gotten more if I had left it alone, but then again I did enjoy it the way I > fixed it. > > Roy > - > > >From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > > > > > > >Referring to RoyHoffman's Penn Western, Marc McCarron > ><mrmccarron@...> wrote: > > > >> I don't think the northern is tinplate > >> > >To which Paul replies: > > > >The photo on page 93 reads, "Union Pacific No. 813 is > >an American Flyer 4-8-4 withsheet metal smoke > >deflectors added and featuring a special paint job." > >The "deck" (subtitle) of the article reads, "A love > >for American Flyer gives this modern layout a > >traditional look." > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5090	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)

I wasn't really crying. I agree with you. During the good old days, we kitbashed a lot of AF because that's almost all we had to work with. I have no regrets. It was a tribute to the detail that AF had that so many S-scalers have found ways to use them like you mentioned. Roy >What is there to cry about? I have a 2-unit coach made from 2 663's that I did >in 1960 while still in high school. Also here is the famous Will Estes gascar >made from a 653, his Lindberg/Kemtron conversion of a Comet Alco PA (I say Comet >because I think that was the only single-motor version); and several of his >stretched 652, 654, and 650 cars, plus my own B&O coach made from two 653 coach >sections. Before American Models and S-Helper came along, we were scrounging >fools. If you want to really go primitive, look at the wood steam engines Mr. >Packard started C-D models with in 1937--I now have 2 of those boilers. > > >Roy Hoffman wrote: > >> From: "Roy Hoffman" <rhoffman@...> >> >> It was an AF Northern. I naively did it before I knew about collector value. >> I made the "elephant ears" out of sheet brass and painted it all for the UP. >> I did get a good price for it when I sold it, but obviously would have >> gotten more if I had left it alone, but then again I did enjoy it the way I >> fixed it. >> >> Roy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5091	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Re: can't we all just get along (a flange question)

<< It was a tribute to the detail that AF had that so many S-scalers have found ways to use them like you mentioned. >> Interestingly enough, you could start with AF and convert it to scale because although it had Big wheels it was generally to prototype proportions, except the passenger cars which were shortened. You can't do that with much of the American Models stuff John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5092	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, September 26, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5093	From: Michael Greene	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: Thanks CJSS and Catching up!

I noted a few emails to these lists to like which I'd like to respond, but it may be a day or so as I've been away. I and some fellow Bristol Club members have enjoyed what I can only call a "S Class" weekend. We made the annual trip down to New Jersey for the 18th Annual Fall S Get Together, sponsored by the Central Jersey S Scalers. All I can saw was it was a great S Get Together and my hearty thanks to everyone from the CJSS for all their hard work in organizing the annual event! We really enjoyed it, getting home back to Massachusetts a little before midnight last night. Realizing we had another day left of this great fall weekend, this morning we headed north to Lincoln, New Hampshire to enjoy Railfan Weekend at Clark's Trading Post, with the White Mountain Central RR and their roster of logging locomotives (mostly New England locos). All in all a great weekend! At Clark's we ran into another Bristol Club member, Ben Perry, and enjoyed a personal tour around the White Mountain Central RR, and a fine fall day in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. (For those who have not heard Ben just retired from Amtrak after many years of service.) The Fall Get Together brought together a number of the "regulars", along with a number of new folks at that event (at least from my perspective, as a relatively new attendee). Among the new folks were: - S Scale Loco & Supply, with their great supply of detail parts, and an update to expect the AM Pacific detail kit in the December time frame, - Bill Banta and lot of the great products from Banta Model Works (Bill must have rushed back from Portland, as I heard someone say he was out in Portland for the Narrow Gauge Convention) - Des Plaines Hobbies and their great new hoppers and tank cars -- these are superb additions to S scale, and I noticed more than a few not making the trip back to Des Plaines, as they were catching rides elsewhere... And on top of this the folks at S-Helper Service opened up their new offices to the attendees for a tour and fine hospitality! Nice new digs, and everyone seemed to have a great time! (PS If Roger suggests following him for a tour somewhere, ask for directions before leaving :-) So whether is was the fun, conversation, and hospitality of the Fall Get Together, or a day to step back in time to the era of the Climax, Heisler, Porter, and Shay, it all added it up to S class weekend! Hope others had as enjoyable weekend! Michael PS Look for some pictures up on the web later this week...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5094	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: S-Gauge Vehicle

I picked up a Lledo Days Gone ByTexaco Tanker truck to use with the gas station on my layout. The box describes the truck as a 1966 GMC, but I can't distinguish it from a 1959 GMC truck. Am I missing something?? (You can find a photo of the truck on the Lledo link on the Vehicle link on Paul Yorke's Links page). Interestingly, the tank body is an overlay, and under it is a frame that you could mount a flatbed or box van body on, if one was into "kitbashing" trucks. Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5095	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 9/26/1999
Subject: S-Gauge Vehicle

OOPS!! I Goofed!! I meant a 1960 GMC Truck.The correct message should read: "I picked up a Lledo Days Gone By Texaco tanker truck to use with the gas station on my layout. The box describes the truck as a 1966 GMC, but I can't distinguish it from a 1960 GMC truck. Am I missing something?? (You can find a photo of the truck on the Lledo link on the Vehicle link on Paul Yorke's Links page)." "Interestingly, the tank body is an overlay, and under it is a frame that you could mount a flatbed or box van body on, if one was into 'kitbashing' trucks." Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5096	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: New Product Announcement

Good choices Bill! I was planning on suggesting the smaller Ma & Pa 2-8-0's (like #26), but the 41 and 43 are excellent choices. I look forward to more information. Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5097	From: Randy Reynolds	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 382

> > Message: 8 > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:35:18 +0000 > From: "Brian Johns" <bljohns@...> > Subject: Recycling old PCs > > Hello Y'all-- > > The office where I work has an old '486/66 PC sitting in the store room. > It's working fine...just too slow to be useful anymore. It's mine for the > taking, but I can't figure out what I'd want with it either. > > Unless... > > Does anyone know if there is a system for controlling an AC model train > layout via a PC? > > -=[ Brian ]=- > Brian, Digitrax has a program that allows you to control all of your trains with your computer. They also have a remote control as well. You install decoders in your engines and it uses DCC to send signals to your engines. You run constant track power at aprox. 18v/10amps and the decoder controls the voltage to the motors. Many new engines use DC can motors that can easily be connected. An AC motor is a bit more work. The BONUS is that you can have all of your engines on the same track and control them independently with out blocks. Take a look at their home page http://www.digitrax.com/ Randy rreynol@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5098	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: ZEPHYER / YANKEE

Well S gaugers, we don't seem to have much enthusiasm for this project. Scott Mann of 3rd Rail wrote: Dear Glen, We are offering both versions, Pioneer and Flying Yankee. Reservations to date are 99 models total. Not high enough to produce at the price we suggested. We need at least 200 reservations to go ahead with the project. Best Regards, Scott Mann

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5099	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: A day at Strasburg Railroad

Yesterday my wife, Sylvia, and I took our kids and grandkids for a trip to the Strasburg Railroad, about 70 miles from our home in te southern anthracite region of Pensytlvania. The reason was to introduce a new generation of the family to railroading. Strasburg had a special event of Thomas the Tank Engine on hand to haul a five coach train about a mile along the Strasburg right-of-way and back to the starting point. I figured that a good start would be something with which the kids are familiar. Of course, there was a tent set up from which Thomas souvenirs were being sold. I managed to find a nice Ertl Sir Topham Hatt 1936 Ford 5 window coupe that I bought for my someday layout. The nice thing about it is that there are no pictures or graphics of any kind on the car. It is just painted blue, and the grille is blackened (the most serious deviation from the original). Perhaps the most enjoyable time was had by my second youngest grandchild, Tommy, age 2-1/2, who really enjoyed seeng the Strasburg 2-10-0 as well as Thomas and the associated regalia that accompanied the locomotive. Our oldest grandchild, Ashley, age 8, wanted a wooden train whistle which she used to "talk to the trains." Of course, the other three also got their own wishes. This was our way of starting the kids out on what I hope will be a lifetime hobby of trains. Of course they will be inheriting their grandpop's ACG stuff, but I'm not interested in giving it up quite yet. The most important thing about yesterday is that they got a start on railroading. Now what would be nice would be some trains in 'S' gauge that could reinforce the start. W. Thomas Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5100	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Yankee Zephyr /Half way there

Maybe Mr. Peck could pick up the 101 units we're short, for showroom stock? (Maybe NOT?) If project is cancelled That $100,000 of reserve orders will have to be spent somewhere!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5101	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: new loco BTS ltd edition

Eagerly went to the BTS webssite and minimum radius for these 8 wheelers is what, 54"? Realize these are scale but leaves the basic S tinplate diameter out of the loop.... or making 54" loops? L (the watchmaker, now repairing the atlantic smoke unit, with two top screws stripped, no new gaskets on hand, and enough fiberglass rope to do one of the dubble doors of my woodstove!) ooops P. S. Assume once I desolder the top cover lugs I pull the free ends of the new wire through, just tight enough, and so one can not remove the top cover again unless desoldered???? Ah its a "toothpaste cap" thing....)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5102	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition

LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Eagerly went to the BTS webssite and minimum radius for these 8 wheelers is > what, 54"? Realize these are scale but leaves the basic S tinplate > diameter out of the loop.... or making 54" loops? > L Not sure what you were reading, but the web page states 'Estimated 30" Minimum Radius' which is a 60" diameter loop. Probability is that they will turn tighter, but doubtful less than a 26" radius. Until the model is built and tested, we will not know for sure. These will be scale locomotives, so no consideration has been given to getting them around the tinplate loop. http://www.btsrr.com/btsloco.htm Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5103	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition

In a message dated 9/27/99 4:02:20 PM, LARSPAINTR@... writes: << Eagerly went to the BTS webssite and minimum radius for these 8 wheelers is what, 54"? Realize these are scale but leaves the basic S tinplate...... >> Well, yes. Once again there is little recognition of where the majority of the S gauge market is - Hi rail. Too bad. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5104	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: Yankee Zephyr /Half way there

In a message dated 9/27/99 3:13:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bradrock@... writes: << Maybe Mr. Peck could pick up the 101 units we're short, for showroom stock? (Maybe NOT?) If project is canceled That $100,000 of reserve orders will have to be spent somewhere! >> What???? Doug Peck is a schoolteacher!!!!!! He runs Port Lines as side hobby to help S. This isn't just marketing and advertising. When brass manufacturers in HO and N scale come out with products they are usually sold before they hit the shore. Contrast this with River Raisin who still has Alleghenies from 1995.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5105	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition

Now if we could get aftermarket HI-Rail wheelsets and smoke and choo choo in tender units,These would have some possibilities!!!! > > From: RBubeck327@... > > In a message dated 9/27/99 4:02:20 PM, LARSPAINTR@... writes: > > << Eagerly went to the BTS webssite and minimum radius for these 8 wheelers > is > what, 54"? Realize these are scale but leaves the basic S tinplate...... > >> > > Well, yes. Once again there is little recognition of where the majority of > the S gauge market is - Hi rail. Too bad. > > RB > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5106	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: S scale War emergency Gon

Could someone please update us on the status of this brass car project by the Drake people. Rock Island Technical Society has just released a data sheet on their series of the cars, part 1 includes as original, and as roofed; part 2 in a couple months is to cover the ones converted to pig service. I have an inquiry out to them to see if extra copies are available yet.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5107	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Ebay shortcuts

For those of you that use Ebay I have several shortcut searches: (Now just bid against ME) These links are useful because they do not have an "S scale" category. S Scale: <A HREF="http://search.ebay.com/cgi-bin/texis/ebay/results.html?query=%22S+SCALE% 22&categoryid=&ht=1&category1=479&maxRecordsReturned=300&maxRecordsPerPage=100 &SortProperty=MetaEndSort">http://search.ebay.com/cgi-bin/texis/ebay/results.h tml?query=%22S+SCALE%22&categoryid=&ht=1&category1=479&maxRecordsReturned=300& maxRecordsPerPage=100&SortProperty=MetaEndSort</A> SHS: <A HREF="http://search.ebay.com/cgi-bin/texis/ebay/results.html?query=SHS&categor yid=&ht=1&category1=479&maxRecordsReturned=300&maxRecordsPerPage=100&SortPrope rty=MetaEndSort">http://search.ebay.com/cgi-bin/texis/ebay/results.html?query= SHS&categoryid=&ht=1&category1=479&maxRecordsReturned=300&maxRecordsPerPage=10 0&SortProperty=MetaEndSort</A> S Helper Service: <A HREF="http://search.ebay.com/cgi-bin/texis/ebay/results.html?query=s+helper+se rvice&categoryid=&ht=1&category1=479&maxRecordsReturned=300&maxRecordsPerPage= 100&SortProperty=MetaEndSort">http://search.ebay.com/cgi-bin/texis/ebay/result s.html?query=s+helper+service&categoryid=&ht=1&category1=479&maxRecordsReturne d=300&maxRecordsPerPage=100&SortProperty=MetaEndSort</A> American Models <A HREF="http://search.ebay.com/cgi-bin/texis/ebay/results.html?query=american+mo dels&categoryid=&ht=1&category1=479&maxRecordsReturned=300&maxRecordsPerPage=1 00&SortProperty=MetaEndSort">http://search.ebay.com/cgi-bin/texis/ebay/results .html?query=american+models&categoryid=&ht=1&category1=479&maxRecordsReturned= 300&maxRecordsPerPage=100&SortProperty=MetaEndSort</A>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5108	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: S scale War emergency Gon

At 4:29 PM 9/27/99, ironhors@... wrote: >Could someone please update us on the status of this brass car project >by the Drake people. My understanding is that W.A. Drake & Co. did not receive sufficient reservations for this car to justify producing the car. If someone has other information, please advise. Lee Johnson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5109	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition

Can not the two middle drivers have blind flanges Larry LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Eagerly went to the BTS webssite and minimum radius for these 8 wheelers is > what, 54"? Realize these are scale but leaves the basic S tinplate > diameter out of the loop.... or making 54" loops? > L > (the watchmaker, now repairing the atlantic smoke unit, with two top screws > stripped, no new gaskets on hand, and enough fiberglass rope to do one of the > dubble doors of my woodstove!) > > ooops P. S. Assume once I desolder the top cover lugs I pull the free > ends of the new wire through, just tight enough, and so one can not remove > the top cover again unless desoldered???? Ah its a "toothpaste cap" > thing....) > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5110	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition

If hirailers want Bill Wade to produce a version of his new locos that are suitable to them, why don't you organize yourselves and convince him that X number of people would buy a hirail version. I'm sure Bill wouldn't turn away business but grumping away via the Internet won't change his mind, I'm sure. Remember he's not a hirailer and doesn't necessarily know what you folks need. I don't know what hirailers need in a loco other than deeper flanges. I say this as a person who has never met Bill Wade but only know him as one satisfied customer. Perhaps one of you could serve as the contact point and find out how many people want a hirail BTS steamer. I guess this debate is an extension of the earlier thread on why can't we all get along. cheers Brad Rockwell wrote: > From: Brad Rockwell <bradrock@...> > > Now if we could get aftermarket HI-Rail wheelsets and smoke and choo > choo in tender units,These would have some possibilities!!!! > > > > From: RBubeck327@... > > > > In a message dated 9/27/99 4:02:20 PM, LARSPAINTR@... writes: > > > > << Eagerly went to the BTS webssite and minimum radius for these 8 wheelers > > is > > what, 54"? Realize these are scale but leaves the basic S tinplate...... > > >> > > > > Well, yes. Once again there is little recognition of where the majority of > > the S gauge market is - Hi rail. Too bad. > > > > RB > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5111	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition

RBubeck327@... wrote: > > From: RBubeck327@... > > In a message dated 9/27/99 4:02:20 PM, LARSPAINTR@... writes: > > << Eagerly went to the BTS webssite and minimum radius for these 8 wheelers > is > what, 54"? Realize these are scale but leaves the basic S tinplate...... > >> > > Well, yes. Once again there is little recognition of where the majority of > the S gauge market is - Hi rail. Too bad. > > RB Sorry, RB, but my decision has nothing to do with recognition, or lack thereof, of the hi-rail market. My decision was to make a scale locomotive. It goes back to the discussion several months ago that there are real differences between the hi-rail and scale equipment. In some cases, such as the simple freight car, there is just a little, such as modification of the frame and end beam' but in some cases, there are major obsticles that require either not producing as accurate as possible scale item, or making two different pieces. In the case of these locomotives, I chose not to spend the resources to have new drivers, wider cylinders, and longer frames made, which also require modification to the boilers to allow clearance of the larger flanges and to compensate for the longer frames. If the hi-rail market wants a locomotive kit, let me know what and we will look into it. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5112	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition

In a message dated 9/27/99 8:33:22 PM, wadepub@... writes: << Sorry, RB, but my decision has nothing to do with recognition, or lack thereof, of the hi-rail market. My decision was to make a scale locomotive >> Please do not misunderstand. It's your project and I wish you the very best of luck and great success in it! Economy of scale (no pun intended), however, is better gained by accommodating the hi-rail as well as the scale market. SHS understands this. Again, all the best. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5113	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/27/1999
Subject: Re: Steam Depot ??

Steam Depot has not advertised much lately, but is still in business as far as I know. He had a bunch of tables at the '98 NASG convention; I was not at this year's, so don't know about that one. I do have his 81 page 1998 "S" catalog. I have ordered from him many times and recommend him highly. He can be reached at: Steam Depot 2038 Center St. Ashland, PA 17921 John Chappell 717 875 4205 Tell him I sent you! Bill Frazier In a message dated 99-09-27 16:00:48 EDT, you write: << Subj: Steam Depot ?? Date: 99-09-27 16:00:48 EDT From: LARSPAINTR To: Bilfrazier In a message dated 99/09/26 2:56:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: > but the 44 ton became > available maybe a year or two ago. It comes with a Pennsylvania Heritage > modified Athern drive, scale or hirail, with 4 or 8 wheels powered. It comes > > as an unpainted one piece shell with brass wire supplied to form handrails > from. The shell requires a little cleanup to fit the ready to run chassis. > The handrails are the only tricky part of the assembly, needing precise > bending and soldering. Price was $139.00 or $159.00 for 8 wheel drive when I > bought mine. I recommend going for the 8 wheel drive. > I'm sure these must be available from Steam Depot, but probably not anywhere > else. > hi Bill- No ads for Steam depot in MRR or S gaugian, nor in back of eihter in hobby shop listings. Evidently U know where it is???? thanx L. >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5114	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Fw: Old cars

Here is some good info for those of you modeling late '40's, early 50's. I asked my Dad how many pre-war vehicles were still around then. His answer surprised me. Ted Larson > I believe that at least until 1950, 90% of vehiles were still of pre-war vintage, > at least out in rural area. My dad did not get the '51 chev until in late 50s. > Also, Neither Ford or chev changed body design until '49 - just did > a few changes in chrome. Didn't need to - everything sold as fast as they could get them > in anyhow. ________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5115	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition

RBubeck327@... wrote: > > In a message dated 9/27/99 8:33:22 PM, wadepub@... writes: > > << Sorry, RB, but my decision has nothing to do with recognition, or lack > thereof, of the hi-rail market. My decision was to make a scale > locomotive >> > > Please do not misunderstand. It's your project and I wish you the very best > of luck and great success in it! Economy of scale (no pun intended), > however, is better gained by accommodating the hi-rail as well as the scale > market. SHS understands this. > > Again, all the best. > > RB Economies of scale can be obtained IF compromises are made in the model. My customers for this project do not want compromises. All of us in the business are well aware that accommodating the hi-rail market will increase the number of products sold. No misunderstanding here. Again, if the hi-rail market wants a steam locomotive kit, I need to hear some specifics from them. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5116	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition

SHS is a good example of a bridge product that appeals to both scale and highrail alike. We all need products like this to grow as a scale. However, if someone like Lionel puts out products that are just aimed at the tinplaters, or AM puts out products that aim at the highrailers, that is fine too. What B.T.S. is trying to do is provide a product for the scale only people. I'ts a niche market, but it does exist with it's own needs to be satisfied. Plenty of products for every segment of S sounds good to me. BTW As a scaler, I've been frustrated with imported brass steam that won't run on my 39" and 42" radius track. I think that these proposed "small" steam engines are terrific because I can now finally expand my steam roster with some engines that can run OK on my layout. Also BTW, Frank Titman built a pilot model for SSL&S for their new superdetailing kit for the AM 4-6-2. It was a beauty and it shows what can be done with basic engines meant for the complete S market to bring it to scale standards. Hey, we're all in this together. Roy >From: "Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S." <wadepub@...> > >Economies of scale can be obtained IF compromises are made in the model. >My customers for this project do not want compromises. > >All of us in the business are well aware that accommodating the hi-rail >market will increase the number of products sold. No misunderstanding >here. > >Again, if the hi-rail market wants a steam locomotive kit, I need to >hear some specifics from them. > >Take care, >Bill >--

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5117	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: A Man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do...a.k.a BTS Steam Loco

Hi Guys, Well, sometimes it's nice to see something targeted at the scale (standard gauge) end. My hope is that these kits do well. I put in for a reservation for the #41 kit. When more details become available I may consider reserving an additional kit. I suspect the 2-8-0's may squeak down to 27" radius, depending on how much clearance is allowed on the frame. Minimum radius on my pike is 29", and I can get both the Omnicon and Southwind 2-8-0's around those curves. Unfortunately, Billy Wade's been taking a little bit of a beating from the Flyer/HiRail folks regarding his choice to make a SCALE ONLY locomotive kit. I'm sure he'll get some heat from some scalers, too, for not offering the "right" engine. Bill has taken a risk in this decision, but has offered to listen to the hi-railers: > If the hi-rail market wants a locomotive kit, let me know what and we > will look into it. > Take care, Bill Hi-railers need to take some things into consideration: 1) Do you want a steam locomotive KIT? 1a) ...or does it have to be Ready-to-Run only? 2) Does it HAVE to have smoke and choo-choo? 3) Does it need an E-Unit of some sort? 4) How much would you be willing to pay? ...and the clincher... 5) WOULD YOU BUY IT? Before the hi-railers shout me down with "But he's not offering it to us!!!", please re-read the quote from Bill. I'm not trying to alienate the Hi-Rail Folks, but remember, these are relatively small locomotives and to maintain scale dimensions, smoke and e-units may not fit comfortably in these particular locomotives. True, AM and SHS offer Flyer compatible locomotives. As I recall, SHS had some difficulty in keeping the heat dissipation of the e-unit down, delaying the SW-9 for a time. Yes, AM has their Pacific, but there were compromises made on that product also, some of which are not easily correctable. So let us Scalers have our place in the sun. Bill Wade is to be congratulated for taking this bold step. Hi-Railers: Don't just carp...talk to Bill...build a business case, you'll probably find him more responsive than Lionel. Success depends on all of us, scale and hirail alike. Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5118	From: ATXtrolley@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition

The SSL&S stuff is exciting. GHQ has been successful in N scale with thier conversion kits. Still I have be cautious about buying the 4-6-2. The Mammoth treadwidth and flanges of an antiquated standard have kept me away. Since I will use only the mechanism, of this locomotive I don't want to put new tires on the drivers too. Tom Potthast

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5119	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 384

Two comments regarding S-Trains Digest Number 384: First, as someone who lives close to Ashland, PA, John Chappell's phone number s now 570 875-4205 We in Schuylkill County Pennsylvania have had our area code changed (with the exception of a few on the western extreme of the county. So John's area code is changed to 570. Second, regarding the messages about "steam era cars." (I really show my age with this post.) There were NO automobiles and/or trucks produced after some date in February 1942 until the inception of the 1946 models, with the exception, of course, of those produced for the military. My dad had a 1929 Oldsmobile sedan that we used until some time in 1942, when she went down in flames. After that we did not have a family car until he bought a 1953 Dodge. (He purchased Haven Cab Co. in Schuylkill Haven, PA in 1948, and from then until he bought the Dodge we used taxicabs for our personal car. I remember my parents and I taking a trip to New York City in one of our 1949 Chevrolet taxis in 1951.) By the time that the 1946 cars hit the streets there was a waiting list to buy new cars that was reputed to be as much as a year or more. Used car lots and dealers' showrooms alike had nothing available through the war, and everything that appeared on a lot or in the showroom was grabbed up almost immediately, regardless of age, condition, or price. It was definitely a seller's marketplace, and that was apparent in the fact that new cars almost doubled in price between 1942 and 1946. When I started driving in 1954 most of us teenagers bought prewar cars as our first cars. Although all of us dreamed of a "James Dean Mercury," not many of us could afford anything as new as a 1949 car then. So if you plan to build a layout representing the late 40s or early 50s, plan on getting vehicles that reflect those made from the late 20s through the 30s. Also remember the Depression. That, of course, also limited production of cars of the early through mid 30s. Of course, this sort of sounds like the old story of kids getting up before the crack of dawn, putting in several hours of work, then walking 5 miles to school where they had to chop wood to keep the schoolhouse warm. W. Thomas Boussum > Steam Depot > 2038 Center St. > Ashland, PA 17921 > > John Chappell > 717 875 4205 > > Tell him I sent you! > > Bill Frazier > ************************************************************** > > > Message: 19 > Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 05:27:40 -0400 > From: mhrreast@... > Subject: Fw: Old cars > > Here is some good info for those of you modeling late '40's, early 50's. > I asked my Dad how many pre-war vehicles were still around then. > His answer surprised me. > Ted Larson > > > I believe that at least until 1950, 90% of vehiles were still of > pre-war vintage, > > at least out in rural area. My dad did not get the '51 chev until in > late 50s. > > Also, Neither Ford or chev changed body design until '49 - just did > > a few changes in chrome. Didn't need to - everything sold as fast as > they could get them > > in anyhow. > ________________________________________________________________ > Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- > Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! > Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh. > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5120	From: David Dewey	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Fw: Old cars

Even while I was growing up (late '50s, early '60s older cars were very common (I grew up in rural mountain area of N. California, Dunsmuir to be exact). I can remember that Paul Livingston had a '31 Ford P/U that would climb Oak street in the winter, when the "new" cars couldn't get half-way up the block (this in the early '70s). The Office manager of the McCloud River RR drove a '20 A coupe to work everyday, especially in winter, as it was the only car he had that did well in the snow (hmm, this was about '72). Then there were all the "little old ladies" of the church, showing up in there '49 Hudson Hornets. Until we had a bad accident in '60, I think it was, our family car was a '49 Rambler. (red, that was a neat car, HUGE back seat area) I don't remember any Model T's running around, but they were probably there too. Lots of old pick-ups survived in various stages of disrepair until quite recently. My '53 was only "taken out of service" in 85! (Leo finally bought a new truck--without Ethel's permission, don't think she ever forgave him for that!) So if ya got 'em, run 'em!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5121	From: Gale Hall	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Wood and metal kits

I have a lot of problem here with the slamming of the wood kits or the metal kits, in the past metal has done a pretty fair job of duplicating metal.....and sure plastic is a fantastic modeling medium. And if you want to improve on a wood kit with a plastic material go for it....this used to be called craftsmanship. We have folks coming into the hobby today, that are scared to death to tackle a PRS boxcar, because it is extremely complicated.....hey remember the 98 cent Revell kits , well airplanes, you put together in the back seat before you even got home? With the price of plastic kits hitting $40 for a tank kit, not to many kids have an opportunity to try more than one or two models..... Wood is pretty forgiving, a little filler here and sand sealer there and the surface can be corrected.......We offered a kit 20 years ago of the 65 foot gondola, for 7.95 that kit today is $39.95......nothing says you have to build that kit thus and so....except someone has drawn the plans and written the instructions, far more costly and time consuming than the material you are ready to trash. 25 years ago we offered an ACF centerflow kit at $9.95 that by all rights should have been a $40 kit due to the soldering that was done on the roof walks,,,,,,,the problem was S couldn't handle a $40 kit at that time, so we forgot labor and sold the kit within the reach of the market.....and yes I will be the first to tell you years later it was fantastic to crank out 3 or 4 PRS hoppers in a single evening. What has always amazed me, is that we need an article and plans to work from, folks we are modeling railroads, they are fortunately today, right outside the door.....take what you know and duplicate what you see....this was supposed to be fun....darn remember when superdetailed meant you had an AB system hung under a boxcar..... And the item came up on the Milwaukee Road ribbed boxcar, hey I wanted one 35 years ago and built it from a NIMCO kit in the same fashion, still got it and it operates fine, if you want a certain item then you can find ways to model that item, this isn't new it has always been that way. Be real careful to avoid a wood kit, keep this hobby as secret as possible.......or craftsmanship might creep back into this hobby...... Gale Hall

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5122	From: Heine, David L.	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Fw: Old cars

It seems that people who grew up or lived through the depression of the '30's held onto things longer, most likely until they were worn out. My Dad's first car was a '34 Chevy, which he had until he bought a new '51 Chevy. When my one grandfather passed away in '73 he still had a '38 Dodge and a late '40's pickup (I don't remember which year or model). When I was growing up in the '50's and '60's it seemed like we held onto cars for 10 to 12 years. Of course I have an uncle who still has two '67's for his everyday cars. Dave Heine P.S. I wear out cars faster than most of my relations.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5123	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: New loco, tinplate vs scale, etc etc etc

Well its evidently still on, as its always been, even as an iggnorant kid I could see that there were two camps.... Today there some fine units thanx to AM and SHS that fill both needs EXCEPT there are no new small steam locos. repeat there are no new small steam locos. Zephyrs, Pacifics, whatever, even some brass. but there are no new small steam locos. so Assuming there is some desire and coordination within the tinplate area (most of us are big boys now) methinks the tinplaters are able to assemble a kit. If they can maintain this 40 to 50 year old iron, and wait WEEKS for replacement parts via mail, they can do a kit. So Is there no money in building a basic kit and a superdetailing kit or two? (keeping the customer coming back for more???) This is done in HO, probably O. But S? No And as they say in Russia, so whatsky. If I am really forced into new reliable stuff I'll hafta settle for a Pacific or a diesel switcher.. my small starter loco(s)??? Of course the 50 will sell, 300 wont as we have read... interesting. Hmmm WHY am I toying with these @(#$$(*@#&$ Atlantics? Nostalgia? Nebber had an Atlantic! Thot they were starter locos---Got the same motors, wheels, drivegear, smoke unit, etc etc as AF's bigger stuff. Maybe I M just loco? L. (A new watchmaker)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5124	From: lifetalk.radio@xxxx.xxx	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: old cars on layout

I enjoy matching the cars to the 1950s era layout I have. Regarding keeping personal autos. I'm 52 and have had 38 cars. The most rewarding though have been my '42,47 and '56 Packards. Now if I could only find 1/64th models of them! Dwight Lehnhoff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5125	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Flying Yankee offering]

The following is from Marshall Thayer, Kansas City, Kansas; former RMC author who has answered my questions about the similarities/differences between the Flying Yankee and the Pioneer Zephyr. ironhors@... wrote: > > I apologize if I have missed something, but is not the Flying Yankee > and the Burlington's Pioneer Zephyr essentially the same?? If so, what > would it take to have a PZ version and expand sales orders > accordingly?? In additon to we S gaugers, I am copying this to some > non-S (presently) who may be interested. This is a common misunderstanding. 9900 had a completely unique cross-section of the cars (for instance, the belly-pan skirts are elliptical rather than circular), and the nose construction was also quite different. 9901-03 and BAR-MEC 6000 shared the design of horizontally barred grills above a straight overwindow sill, while the 9900 had vertical wire grills dipping over the windshield panels toward the center. On 9900, cab doors were in the fluted panels while later articulateds had the door father forward of smooth sheet. Markers and number boards were also different. 9900 was: power/RPO/bagg; bagg/dinette/coach; (until rebuild to bagg w/ car 500 dinette/coach); coach/lounge/obs. 9901-02 were: power/baggage; dinette/coach (added coach) coach/lounge/obs. 6000 was power/bagg/coach/dinette; coach; coach/lounge/obs. (remained 3-car train) 9903 was: power/rpo/bagg; bagg; dinette/coach; coach/lounge/obs. Only 9903 was *built* as a 4-car train. As implied, 9901-02 were identical trains. With that exception, none of the 19 cars making up the five trains were identical. Sorry. It's a good thought, but facts are against you. On the other hand, if the project were feasible with the reduced market-base of an assembly kit, the latter four trains (excluding 9900) could be done fairly easily as option parts: Common to all trains Nose/engine compartment roof Coupled end - male bolster Coupled end - female bolster Lounge end Truck (unshrouded - recommend optional shrouded truck as well) For each train Power car roof (3 lengths) Power car sides/belly pan assembly (3 versions) Trailing car roof (5 lengths (? - I'd have to check for sure) Pier panels (22 versions for 11 different cars) These trains (with the exception of 6000) had some appearance changes during their service lives - optional 2-lens headlight/tail light housings would be good, together with alternate engine compartment roofs (fixed vents were added to the CB&Q powercars in the early 40s) Although only two prototype systems are involved, all these trains except 9901 (burned in 1944) remained in service for 20+ years, and were assigned to most primary or secondary mains at one time or the other, with the result that few CB&Q, FW&D, B-RI, MEC or BAR modelers could do without them in the period 1935-1955 . . . If you would be interested in pursuing the project, I have sufficient information plus the skills and experience to do the production drawings, instruction sheets and so forth for you as an outside contractor. Marshall Thayer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5126	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Smoke screen at last!

Yeee Hah! Got me a smoker. and a chugger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right now I have combined the smoke unit of the cast atlantic (loco from hell) with the plastic Atlantic which has a good (are any of em good?) E unit. A replacement heater wire/wick assembly was used, tested out to the 45 ohms before and after installation. Likewise checked leads to chassis with ohmmeter to be sure no ground. Added new smoke gear and pressed in rivet, etc. Also added mini jacks on top of the smoke unit so it can be removed without disturbing the leads from motor to it and the headlight. Just unplug and U can service it. FYI eye used clay to check clearance between top of smoke unit the plastic boiler. If I was gonna pull same stunt with a metal loco shell would want to add some kind of insulation inside top of shell to avoid any shorting. Had tested smoke earlier with wick plain and alligator clips, did fine. Put the bare chassis and tender on the track, applied a full 15 vac to track, and it smokes and choo choos super! Headlight works too of course. NOW AC vs DC vs smoke???? Ah hah- I first ran the bugger (in place) with the accessory 15vac from my HO ppack. Smoke volume = A. Now disconnected from the AC and moved leads to the variable DC side and got same volume of smoke, meaning A. So maybe a reader wishes to conduct a gen u wine smoke test on a spare unit???? I saw no difference. Anyhoo I plan to (still) install Hudson style marker lights, and most likely similar handrail. Means customizing the plastic shell, I think this will not come til January. Now if the track I have ordered for close to a month arrives, I can actually run the thing! L. the watchmaker (I usedta be an artist) And a PS- thanx to ALL who responded to even lil bits of chat in some of my posts regarding this scenario. Bet there musta been 10 of em along the way, some 3 or 4 times!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5127	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: kits

Mr. Hall: Well said. I was amused last spring when the topic of "Ye Old Huff & Puff" wood box car & reefer kits came up. I replied that they resembled the old Kinsman kits, but not as detailed, with sides similar to the Gene Walp productions. Several questions came through my e-mail asking what I was talking about! I realize that everybody isn't as old as me, but with the advent of ready-to-run (which is fine, up to a point), what has happened to the "model" in model railroading? I, personally, never saw any difficulty in puting together an AM hopper or box car, but now they are ready-to-run (and more expensive). My daughter, when she was 8 yrs. old, did a good job of putting a few of them together. Basswood is still available to improve, or change, existing wood kits currently on the market. Most additional detail parts are available from a variety of sources. And remember the old SSL&S brass engine kits and detail parts that had to be SOLDERED together? I wonder if the new owner will offer these in kit form? How about hand laid track and track components? Anyhow, I do sometimes wonder about the existing pool of craftmanship available in this country. Is this why everything is produced in Asia? By the way, I'm a hi-railer that enjoys kit building and modification. Take care Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5128	From: RRDART@aol.com	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: new loco BTS ltd edition

In a message dated 9/28/99 8:24:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rhoffman@... writes: << SHS is a good example of a bridge product that appeals to both scale and highrail alike. We all need products like this to grow as a scale >> ??? SHS is making scale equipment that will go around hi-rail track. Period. 20 years from now people will still be buying the same SHS stuff they do now because it is scale and well detailed. How many scale American Models boxcars were sold the day after the Pacific Rail Shop kit came out? What you are asking of BTS will eliminate the scale qualities of the engine. While the hi-rail market is the large segment of S, too many S people have their heads in the sand. Look at CTT the Hirail stuff is more scale like than the scale stuff from 30 years ago.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5129	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: Re: A Man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do...a.k.a BTS Steam Loco

Hey people. Bill wade is a business man and if he chooses to do a scale only project and thinks it will pay its fare then leave him alone. I personally think he has a great project going. If you Hi-railers want something like this then put up your money and get a manufacture to make it for you. I would like to ask if a person wants these engines to get around very small curves could not the two center drivers be blind? The AT&SF had a 2-10-2 that the middle driver was blind ( WOW on the prototype ) Any way my thoughts on the matter. Wish you well Billy on this project. Larry Rich Gajnak wrote: > From: Rich Gajnak <rich.gajnak@...> > > Hi Guys, > > Well, sometimes it's nice to see something targeted at the scale > (standard gauge) end. My hope is that these kits do well. I put in > for a reservation for the #41 kit. When more details become available > I may consider reserving an additional kit. > > I suspect the 2-8-0's may squeak down to 27" radius, depending on > how much clearance is allowed on the frame. Minimum radius on my pike > is 29", and I can get both the Omnicon and Southwind 2-8-0's around > those curves. > > Unfortunately, Billy Wade's been taking a little bit of a beating from > the Flyer/HiRail folks regarding his choice to make a SCALE ONLY > locomotive kit. I'm sure he'll get some heat from some scalers, too, > for not offering the "right" engine. > > Bill has taken a risk in this decision, but has offered to listen > to the hi-railers: > > > If the hi-rail market wants a locomotive kit, let me know what and we > > will look into it. > > > Take care, Bill > > Hi-railers need to take some things into consideration: > > 1) Do you want a steam locomotive KIT? > 1a) ...or does it have to be Ready-to-Run only? > 2) Does it HAVE to have smoke and choo-choo? > 3) Does it need an E-Unit of some sort? > 4) How much would you be willing to pay? > ...and the clincher... > 5) WOULD YOU BUY IT? > > Before the hi-railers shout me down with "But he's not offering it > to us!!!", please re-read the quote from Bill. > > I'm not trying to alienate the Hi-Rail Folks, but remember, these > are relatively small locomotives and to maintain scale dimensions, > smoke and e-units may not fit comfortably in these particular > locomotives. > > True, AM and SHS offer Flyer compatible locomotives. As I recall, > SHS had some difficulty in keeping the heat dissipation of the e-unit > down, delaying the SW-9 for a time. Yes, AM has their Pacific, > but there were compromises made on that product also, some of which > are not easily correctable. > > So let us Scalers have our place in the sun. Bill Wade is to be > congratulated for taking this bold step. Hi-Railers: Don't just > carp...talk to Bill...build a business case, you'll probably find him > more responsive than Lionel. > > Success depends on all of us, scale and hirail alike. > > Be seeing you, > Rich G. > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5130	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 9/28/1999
Subject: September, 1998 NMRA BUlletin

In this issue on page21: "Bill Mosteller, 2831 Hogan Court, Falls Church, VA has released a trio of decal sets, including his first offering in S-scale. . . . . . .Virginia Railway low-side gondolas, in white, at $2.35 HO, $3,19 for S-scale. Each set does one car and includes the herald, road name, road numbers for both sides and ends, and dimensional data specific to the Virginian class G-5. " Note that twice this says "Virginia" and once it says "Virginian", I have not heard of the former, and I trust the latter is the road that was heavy electric that was merged into the N&W.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5131	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Gondola Loads

Hi "S" people, I wanted to know what you guys are using today to make a realistic load for gondolas....this would be for AF cars...any ideas...or is there inserts that can be bought..I thought I seen something like scrap metal made into a drop in mold years ago...or any homemade ideas..Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5132	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: GILBERT AMERICAN FLYER

Yes the name lives on in diminished capacity. "L" is just a straw corporation, a shadow of it's founder and present owner of Gilbert. We all know that. The following quote from a Classic Toy Trains article reflects that "L" will always view Gilbert AF as a limited item for collectors. Dick Maddox: " I would love to produce American Flyer product and, as we develop our offshore production, perhaps that's where we can do it. As you know, the quantities in American Flyer are no where close to the quantities we do in Lionel, and the cost of production is prohibitive in those circumstances. You just can't get enough pieces to make it profitable." So is it up to us the NASG to build the market? To make S gauge a household word? To cause children 5 to 12 to say "Dad, I want a 2 rail train set for Christmas!" Someone has to create and encourage a bigger market. We, the NASG are moving to do some more Public Relations but we don't have a $500,000 advertising war chest and we operate on our dues. Some say we should raise the dues to build the kitty, say $500,000 for promo divided by 2,000 members = $250 over how many years? No, the NASG is not the answer. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5133	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Re: Virginian Decals (was - September, 1998 NMRA BUlletin

ironhors@... wrote: > > From: ironhors@... > > In this issue on page21: > > "Bill Mosteller, 2831 Hogan Court, Falls Church, VA has released a trio > of decal sets, including his first offering in S-scale. . . . > > . . .Virginia Railway low-side gondolas, in white, at $2.35 HO, $3,19 > for S-scale. Each set does one car and includes the herald, road name, > road numbers for both sides and ends, and dimensional data specific to > the Virginian class G-5. " > > Note that twice this says "Virginia" and once it says "Virginian", I > have not heard of the former, and I trust the latter is the road that > was heavy electric that was merged into the N&W. These are Virginian decals. They have been adapted to fit the Rex low-side gon, which is a panel or two short of the prototoype. We have the decals in stock, and they do look good. Here is a photo of my car that was lettered with an old Enhorning decal set... looks the same as the new set. http://www.btsrr.com/pix/vgn-gon.jpg Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5134	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Re: Gondola Loads

Hi Guys; Jeff B. asked about loads for gondolas...well, out of shear necessity, I scratch-built my own using a piece of Foam Core as a base and then adding parts and pieces from my junk box scattered about and glued on. I used things like wheels, couplers, brake parts, ladders, small pieces of scale chain etc...even some small hardware parts that resemble other junk that I salvaged from a copier. Then I painted the whole load with a light coat of grey primer and oversprayed this with a coat of red primer that looks a lot like a rusty old load of junk. I have gotten some very positive feedback from some of our club members about these loads..and the best part is they're cheap and removable. And, each one of them will be somewhat different, making them even more realistic. I also took a bunch of 3/4" scotch tape reels and glued them to a styrene base, 3 across and 5 lengthwise and painted the whole thing flat black. It resembles a load of wire reels very nicely. Hope this helps. Regard"S" Al Babbitt-Rocky Mtn. Hi-Railers-NASG Boise, ID >>> "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> 09/29/99 04:13AM >>> From: "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> Hi "S" people, I wanted to know what you guys are using today to make a realistic load for gondolas....this would be for AF cars...any ideas...or is there inserts that can be bought..I thought I seen something like scrap metal made into a drop in mold years ago...or any homemade ideas..Jeff Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5135	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: new locos of ALL sorts

Appreciate the well written concerns pro and con with the new locos offered by the BTS folks. Some chat has arisen regarding desires, do the mfg. read this list and cull the info for desires? Does the S list have an accurate roster of who has what motive power on this list? Does The Club for S have an accurate roster of its members rolling stock and is it available to mfg. for their review? etc etc. I applaud BTS for its efforts, if they regularly read the list they have heard me CRY. My limited experience of 50 years of intermittent model RR-ing leads me to believe there are 3 basic kinds of layouts- megalayouts, tinplate/starter layouts, and short lines. Literally every issue of a model RR mag seems to have a shortline featured or a shortline loco. None in S... HO can have basic loco kits with one or two superdetailing kits. Why not S? Building an 8 wheeler? Least its got 'freight' sized drivers, now the mfg. can make 6 wheelers from the same chassis? etc etc If S-Trains@onelist.com is THE current technology communicator for S ga, then perhaps all the chatter about 'stuff' is viable here? ( I mean how the #!!!!X$$!!!! can one discuss thru an every other month mag that has 4 months further back to schedule it and limited space for letters?) But how to also fill the needs of the fixit folks (me for one!) that are new to working with this old AC stuff? Two lists were suggested originally, maybe its one for fixit and one for S- Hobby DISCUSSION and GRUMBLES? Just wondering. Thanx for listening. Is there anyone out there? If so, read my list. L. The reluctant watchmaker (I will follow with some fixit soon!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5136	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Re: new locos of ALL sorts

LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Appreciate the well written concerns pro and con with the new locos offered > by the BTS folks. > Some chat has arisen regarding desires, do the mfg. read this list and cull > the info for desires? Does the S list have an accurate roster of who has > what motive power on this list? Does The Club for S have an accurate roster > of its members rolling stock and is it available to mfg. for their review? > etc etc. > I applaud BTS for its efforts, if they regularly read the list they have > heard me CRY. Howdy Lars and all.... Many S manufacturers follow these lists. Here at B.T.S., we check e-mail at least four times per day, seven days per week. We follow the lists for S-Trains, S-Scale, Sn3, Proto-64, O, On3, and a few other special interest groups, constantly looking for input on new projects, problems/concerns with old ones, and generally trying to be a help where we can. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5137	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: get the L in phase

I added a Lionel 1033 (90 watt) transformer to my layout to power my switches. I'm using the A and C terminals for a constant 16 volts. How do I get this in phase with my AF transformers? There is no Base post. Thanks. PS I didn't deliberately buy the 1033 instead of and AF 8B for example. I already had the 1033 from a Lionel set I received.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5138	From: Louis Glumac	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: AF HO

Hi,,,, i know this is s gage,,, and thats what i am into , but i just got some american flyer ho, and was interested in the value if anyone can help thanks,,,,, first a set in box excellent,, #30705, it has a diesel #31025 chesapeak&ohio,,sante fe hopper #33214,caboose #33621,and bordon flat car #33545.... also 3 extra cars,,,caboose #72901, boxcar #52673. and gondola #15317,, all in e- shape,,,,, box set is in great condition,,,,,,, thanks,,,,,,,, > > > > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5139	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: 21155

What would you say is currently a reasonable price to pay for a VG to E condition 21155 docksider? Inquiring operator-oriented minds want to know. Thank you.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5140	From: John Foley	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: NASG UP boxcar.

>Delivered-To: foley164@... >X-Sender: foley164@... >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) >Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:40:40 -0700 >To: foley164@... >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: NASG UP boxcar. > >Hi Folks > To the NASG members who got their August 99 issue of the >Dispatch, the UP boxcars on cover are availabe through me. Please >go to http://trainweb.com/nasg/99nasgcarform.html for the order >form IF interested. > For folks who are not members you can use this form to >join up and buy a car. > Also all cars that have been ordered have been sent so >you can order as many as you want, or order more. their are 4 #s >Hirail or scale. > Thanks > John > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5141	From: Richard	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Listening, way down here!!

To Lars (it is Lars??) As Bill has already mentioned many of us with any predisposition to manufacture listen keenly to these lists ...Hey Bill did iyou know there is a Proto48 list now!!?? Sorry..in joke....Actually these lists are incredibly helpful...well I think so...also a wonderful vent for letting off steam ( or oily fumes). There have been concerns raised lately by some as to whom it falls to to get this corner of the hobby moving along....difficult question...as a whole then the NASG and similar orgaisations at morelocal levels are charged with making others aware and provididing some sort of umbrella support structure. I suppose we would like someone (or some BODY) to be the "responsible" one for promoting...but at the end of the day...like all things in life we are ultimately responsible ourselves...we all have to push the barrow... A very interesting observation regarding shortline modeling etc...I suppose given typical area constraints for modeling that a switching style or shortline orientated layout be a very good choice for a layout........this is my pet arguement for getting more exposure in the majors( in respect to seducing those from other scales) Imagine (yes again) if you will if only 1% of HO modelers decided to dabble in "S" with a little switching layout....at the moment half a dozen grown men are salivating uncontrolably in anticipation of the market capacity that would generate..I'm one and I think I know the other 5!!! Someone should think of doing an article on a shelf switching layout in "S"....if we can attract some second scalers to our cause, believe me the playing field would alter...dramatically. I for one listen very attentively (when I'm not mouthing off eh!!) I use these lists as agreat tool for information gathering...And for having good chats too...the internet has proferred the avenue for customer feedback and wants like no other medium before...I think its fantastic...I for one would be a little lost without it...what write a letter and wait!!! I believe many manufactureers use the information garnered from these lists as part of their outlooks....unfortunately only a small proportion of what everyone wants is ever going to be made...but if you dont ask...you dont get!! These lists are very good...what is even better is go and talk to that same manufacturer at a show etc...and you will start to understand the enthusiam many have for wanting to make and introduce product...and how they agonise over the selection of same...its like playing the shell game...and playing it with real money too!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5142	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: A Man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do...a.k.a BT

Ed You should get your head out of your ---. The fire directed at AM was because he produces models for tinplate and tries to sell them as scale. He has not produced a scale any thing since he has been making models. When I say scale I am not talking about the running gear but the detail that is not there but should be if you are going to call it scale. I think Bill Wade does not want the expence of incorporating tinplate and Hi-rail into this project. Also I do not think Bill will claim they are made in the US of A when they come from China. Can't say that for AM Larry Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote: > lawrence jackman wrote: > > > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > > Hey people. Bill wade is a business man and if he chooses to do a scale only > > project > > and thinks it will pay its fare then leave him alone. > > Of course, if American Models chooses to make hi-rail or AF-like > products, it is OK to dump all over that decision. If someone decides > to do a scale only project we should leave him alone, but if someone > else decides to do an AF-like project we can dump big time. Great > logic...... > > "S"incerely, > > Ed L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5143	From: Richard	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: A question for HiRailers etc

Hi again Wafflingg on before got me to thinking . Now dont get irate here as I think its a legitimate differentiation of market objectives. What do HiRailers (I presume AF type operators are inthis group) want?? This is not (to me ) such a simple question. Does the majority want rehashings of what has been offered in yesteryear...or are new products and new TYPE of products viable. I noticed (and listened!!) in my previous attmepts to survey this and other audiences that not many HiRailer types would buy a kit, preferring RTR. OK..heres a few more questions.. 1) Does model need to be of same detail level as a good scale RTR model 2) Does prototype fidelity matter as much 3)Is it acceptable to paint models in non prototypical schemes ( ie a loco for a RR thatnever had them) 4) what are the most desirable Road Names 5) Does a loco HAVE to have all the bells and whistles (literally) 6) Are special run limited editions of interest (These might be more if the hand asembled rather than mass injected style...not necesarily of brass) 7) I have alreay asked before, but...hey lets trot this one out in a slightly different manner....what 4 axle (electric or diesel) would make an interesting and desirable (youd go and buy it!!) addition to whats on offer some food for thought...some of you may wish to print that list off or take it with you to your next gathering and ask your fellow modelers not on this list about their thoughts...your replies WILL BE LISTENED TO...by me and others. Keep in mind as some have mentioned before some prototypes when manufactured as models can span the two varieties (scale and HiRail/Flyer style) and there are a lot that wont (not without essentially making two products) I have pointed my questions above particualrly at the "vast majority"...in order for us to listen.....you have to speak!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5144	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Michigan

Anybody S club member in the area of Trenton Mich. please contact me. Thanks, Ted Larson ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5145	From: Richard	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: prototype for modeling

Hi all I cant remember which list this site came via, and tothe personwho posted it there ..thanks.. Now this could possible make for an intersting prototype to model....and thats myflimsy excuse for posting it here. http://www.dockyard.com/index.htm This is just an amazing site...the History of this mob is fascinating, absolutely fascinating...they say truth is often stranger than fiction!! As an aside..it is a very well put together site...should al sites work as well as this one. anyhow have a look if you have a spare 5mins...be warned it'll get you in!! and love those Shays!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5146	From: Jarcho	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Lionel 1033 transformer

David: if you are only using this transformer to power switches, and it is not connected to the track or any other transformer, then it does not need to be in phase with any other transformer. Lionel listed the #1033 transformer's common ground connections as follows: With A as common ground, A-C fixed 16v, A-B fixed 5 v., A-U var. 5-16v.; With B as common ground, B-C fixed 11 v., B-U var. 0-11 v.; With C as common ground, C-A fixed 20v, C-B fixed 14v.; With U as common ground, U-A var. 10-20v., U-B var. 4-14v. This is probably more than you ever wanted to know about your transformer. My best guess would be to treat A like the base post (or common ground) and use U for the variable voltage post, and C as the fixed voltage post. If necessary, try it when you try to put the transf' in phase with a Flyer one. Keep an eye on it at first to be sure it's ok. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5147	From: Don Abrams	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: AF 21004/21005 Pennsy B6

Hi all, I don't know if there are many "Classic Toy Trains" readers on this list, but the November, 1999 issue has a 21004 shown in the Collectible Classics column (pg. 162). The author is Bob Keller. He claims that on these locos "The tender contains a smoke unit and American Flyer's Choo-Choo sound effect mechanism." I'd like CTT to do a follow up where they pop the top on this tender so us 'S' guagers could check it out. I've only had the rare smoke in boiler units in my collection. Tongue In Cheek, Don P.S. I'm in agreement with the assessment that the firebox top is odd due to it's radical slope down toward the cab. It really detracts from it's otherwise good looks, assuming you can forgive the cab's curtain.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5148	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/29/1999
Subject: Re: A question for HiRailers etc

I am a Hirailer. Here are my answers. Richard wrote: > > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > Hi again > > Wafflingg on before got me to thinking . > > Now dont get irate here as I think its a legitimate differentiation of > market objectives. > > What do HiRailers (I presume AF type operators are inthis group) want?? I want scale or scale-like equipment with hi-rail wheels and either AF compatible or Kadee 802 couplers. > > This is not (to me ) such a simple question. Does the majority want > rehashings of what has been offered in yesteryear...or are new products > and new TYPE of products viable. I prefer modern prototypes and detest the rehashes of the same cars over and over by Lionel. > > I noticed (and listened!!) in my previous attmepts to survey this and > other audiences that not many HiRailer types would buy a kit, preferring > RTR. I have no problem with building American Models or Pacific Rail Shop kits, having done both. > OK..heres a few more questions.. > 1) Does model need to be of same detail level as a good scale RTR model Yes, and there's no reason for it not to be. > 2) Does prototype fidelity matter as much I don't mind seeing a car lettered for a road that never had them. > 3)Is it acceptable to paint models in non prototypical schemes ( ie a > loco for a RR thatnever had them) OK for cars. Steam locos gets a little dicey because most roads had very distinctive features. > 4) what are the most desirable Road Names 1) PRR 2) PRR 3) PRR well, you get the idea. > 5) Does a loco HAVE to have all the bells and whistles (literally) I would accept a detail kit as an alternative. > 6) Are special run limited editions of interest (These might be more if > the hand asembled rather than mass injected style...not necesarily of > brass) I think these are very acceptable if done in separate cast urethane sides, ends and top or similar material > 7) I have alreay asked before, but...hey lets trot this one out in a > slightly different manner....what 4 axle (electric or diesel) would make > an interesting and desirable (youd go and buy it!!) addition to whats on > offer No preference. But I'd like an SD40 or other 6 wheel truck diesel. > > some food for thought...some of you may wish to print that list off or > take it with you to your next gathering and ask your fellow modelers not > on this list about their thoughts...your replies WILL BE LISTENED > TO...by me and others. > > Keep in mind as some have mentioned before some prototypes when > manufactured as models can span the two varieties (scale and > HiRail/Flyer style) and there are a lot that wont (not without > essentially making two products) I believe SHS has showed us that the same model can serve both. If somebody wants to put on more detail than SHS provides they're beyond my desires. > > I have pointed my questions above particualrly at the "vast > majority"...in order for us to listen.....you have to speak!! > > cheers >:~)) Richard > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5149	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Fw: Re: Semaphores

Neil is planning S scale products based on the HO models seen in the website noted below. Ted --------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Froese" <enfroese@...> To all S guagers: Pictures of the proposed derailer and semaphores in HO may be seen at www.intranet.ca/~aldermodels If you're interested, please email enfroese@... Neil > >On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:43:04 -0400 "Froese" <enfroese@...> >writes: >> Hi Ted! >> >> Prices US are $9.00 per derail and $11.00 per semaphore plus $3.50 US >for shipping and pakaging. I haven't advertised in the dispatch which I'm >sure would be a good idea! Hope to hear from you! >>You may see photos of the derail in HO and the unassembled semaphores >>at:www.intranet.ca/~aldermodels > >> Take Care, > > >> > >> >On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:13:27 -0400 "Froese" <enfroese@...> >> >writes: >> >> Good morning Ted, >> >> >> >> Yes I got the photo. Our proposed semaphore closely resembles >> you photocopy. I'm not sure how detailed you want your GN semaphore >> to be (prototype). To be exact, I would need a closeup color >> photograph. >> > >> >> Our semaphore doesn't come with the long post, but a bracket >> instead, but it's beatifully made and could probably be modified to GN if >> >desired! >> >> >> >> Take Care >> >> >> >> Neil ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5150	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Gondola Loads

Hi S GAUGERS As to the question yesterday about gondola loads: I believe Russ Downs and Hobby Surplus sales also have gondola loads such as pipes etc. There also have been a couple of vendors at York train meet and NASG convention selling resin junk loads for gondolas. I also have purchased a number of the undecorated gondola canister sets from Joe Haenn of Joe's Train Repair on this list. I created my own railroads logo on decals on my computer and put those logos on the undecorated canisters. Now I can put my canisters in the gondolas of foreign RRs such as N&W #804, Southern, Virginian, Seaboard. I plan to buy a Lionel magnetic crane in the future, put a tiny magnet in the top of the canisters and use the magnetic crane to load and unload the canisters. I'll let you know if that works. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Guagers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5151	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: A Man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do...a.k.a

BOYS! CALM DOWN! There's no sense in getting an e-corronary over this. This thread is no longer reflecting its original intent. My original posting was to show a level of support for Billy and his latest project, plus to encourage the Hi-Rail Folks to think about what they would like to see. It seems to once again to be an excuse for carping about AM and/or to see who can get in the last word. I realize both of you have had projects that in the past that didn't turn out as planned. Guess what? It doesn't matter any more, at least to me. If you still feel hurt, that's your privilege, but take it OFFLINE and leave me out of it. Take it to court and let your lawyers get rich. If you both continue to dwell on this grudge match, I feel sorry for both of you. Be seeing you, -Rich G. ljack70117@... wrote: > > Ed > You should get your head out of your ---. > The fire directed at AM was because he produces models for tinplate and tries to > sell them > as scale. He has not produced a scale any thing since he has been making models. > When I say scale I am not talking about the running gear but the detail that is > not there but should be if you are going to call it scale. I think Bill Wade does > not want the expence of incorporating tinplate and Hi-rail into this project. Also > I do not think Bill will claim they are made in the US of A when they come from > China. Can't say that for AM > Larry > > Ed & Judi Loizeaux wrote: > > > lawrence jackman wrote: > > > > > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > > > > Hey people. Bill wade is a business man and if he chooses to do a scale only > > > project > > > and thinks it will pay its fare then leave him alone. > > > > Of course, if American Models chooses to make hi-rail or AF-like > > products, it is OK to dump all over that decision. If someone decides > > to do a scale only project we should leave him alone, but if someone > > else decides to do an AF-like project we can dump big time. Great > > logic...... > > > > "S"incerely, > > > > Ed L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5152	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: A Man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do...a.k.a BT

>I was talking to one of the S-scale manufacturers last Saturday at S. Amboy >and he said that the parts for his cars are made in the U. S. and shipped to >China where the assemby and packaging of a car takes place. This sort of >clouds the issue. What do you put on the box. Made in US? Made in China? or >correctly: Made in US and assembled in China? I guess I'm just glad SOMEBODY >makes S-scale rolling stock. > >Roy >- > >>From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> >> >>Tell you what You tell me which ones you think were made in the US of A >and I will >>tell you if you are right. >>Ron got very angry when I told Don Thompson what I saw at a Chicago plastic >show and >>even Don did not know there were from Taiwan. And he was helping Ron with >money at >>that time >>Larry >> > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5153	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: AF 21005 Switcher

The last page of the November Classic Toy Trains shows the 21005 Pennsy Switcher. The author lists them available for Excellent ($460) and Good ($130). If you have a good 21004 or 21005 for $130 I'll buy it and gladly pay the shipping. Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5154	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: AF 21004/21005 Pennsy B6

Don Abrams and all others on the list; I found this article to be highly slanted away from American Flyer. It is obviously written by one who either has little knowledge of Flyer or chooses to be ignorant to the marvels of American Flyer engineering. His last paragraph summarizes his narrowminded opinion calling the 21005 "too late to make a difference as AF slid into mediocrity and financial ruin." With an attitude like this it is no wonder people like "L" won't market anything new for us in the "Superior Gauge." One mans opinion...let the flames begin. It has always been my opinion that you get what you pay for...I got this issue of CTT as a FREE trial issue...Amen. Regard"S" Al Babbitt-Rocky Mtn. Hi-Railers-NASG Boise, ID >>> Don Abrams <donabrams@...> 09/29/99 07:13PM >>> From: Don Abrams <donabrams@...> Hi all, I don't know if there are many "Classic Toy Trains" readers on this list, but the November, 1999 issue has a 21004 shown in the Collectible Classics column (pg. 162). The author is Bob Keller. He claims that on these locos "The tender contains a smoke unit and American Flyer's Choo-Choo sound effect mechanism." I'd like CTT to do a follow up where they pop the top on this tender so us 'S' guagers could check it out. I've only had the rare smoke in boiler units in my collection. Tongue In Cheek, Don P.S. I'm in agreement with the assessment that the firebox top is odd due to it's radical slope down toward the cab. It really detracts from it's otherwise good looks, assuming you can forgive the cab's curtain. Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5155	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: 1033

Thanks, Tom. Your information, as usual, is very helpful. I'll keep it limited to powering the switches. When I tried to get it in phase with the Flyer transformers there was one plug setting that produced less spark than when inserted the other way, but in either case it was more spark than I usually get between two Flyer trannies in phase. I ran my trains* some and checked to see if it or any of my other transformers were getting hot. The 1033 case was cool, the A and C terminal were slightly warm, the AF transformers were cool. Sound about right to you? Thanks again for your help. * a 312 SIT with 6 lit up passenger cars, and a lg. motor 326 with about 11 freight cars, night time with no lights on in the room, concentric ovals, full power, smok'n and choo-choo'n as only a pair of Gilbert's classics can. What fun especially when you put your head at layout level and they come by you side-by-side. You can even feel the breeze as they pass.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5156	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: dim that dining car

I tried something that worked really well. Cut a manilla file folder to size as an insert. It dimmed the car's illumination from bright white to a yellowish glow very similar to that from my much older 661's and 96X cars.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5157	From: busy-boy	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: The L with it.

David_Horn@... wrote: >I added a Lionel 1033 (90 watt) transformer to my layout to power my >switches. I'm using the A and C terminals for a constant 16 volts. How do >I get this in phase with my AF transformers? There is no Base post. David: I believe the C post is the Common which is the base post equivalent, and the A post is the equivalent of the fixed voltage post. But it doesn't matter if I am right or wrong, because, for purposes of phasing, you will either be "in" phase or "out" of phase, either way you hook it up. Correction is just a matter of reversing the line plug. Unlike DC, where there is an actual + and -, AC has switching pluses and minuses and you just want to switch at the same time in the same direction, with all your transformers. So even if you got the posts reversed, you could correct it by reversing the plug. Note well that this is only true for fixed voltage posts. Where a variable voltage wiper is involved, you must tie all the non-varying commons together. In that case, you must confirm with a good Lionel source that the C is indeed the Common. In fact, it may make some sense to run your switches from a variable post. It is amazing how performance can be optimized at a specific voltage, but drop off considerably above and below that voltage level. To phase this transformer, connect the "C" post to the "Base" post of your operating Flyer transformer group. Plug the 1033 into the power strip with your AF units. Attach a wire to the "A" post and lightly brush that wire on the "7-15 Volt" fixed voltage post of one of the phased Flyers. A bright arcing spark is your clue to reverse the line plug on the 1033. A small white spark will demonstrate the small potential difference between the two "in phase" fixed posts. I recommend keeping your transformers always plugged together into a heavy duty power strip so that once a phase relationship has been established, it will remain so, even if it must be disconnected from the main service. Also, the strip comes with a switch that turns the whole layout on and off at once. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5158	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: AF 21004/21005 Pennsy B6

Many S folk have noticed the less than accurate article in CTT on the 21004/21005. Please see below an e-mail that I wrote on 9/27/99 to Neil Besougloff, and his reply. The CTT staff knows that they goofed, but unfortunately, the 'horse is out of the barn'. RB *** Hi Bob, Thanks for the letter. We're certainly hanging our heads about the errors. Sincerely, Neil >9/27/99 > >Dear Neil: > >I read with interest the latest issue of CTT - November. I appreciate your >publication�s efforts in diversifying its coverage by the inclusion of a >Collectible Classics article about Gilbert�s models of the B6b: the No. 21004 >and 21005 engines. I suspect that you may receive several letters concerning >this article. Unfortunately, there are a fair number of errors contained in >it. These include: > >1. The smoke and choo-choo unit is housed in the boiler, not the tender. > >2. Mr. Keller correctly points out that there is a plastic curtain that >conceals the motor and reverse unit. He calls this a �blemish� and states >that leaving it off would be less unsightly. The curtain is a one piece >clip-on assembly and is VERY easily removed if not desired. I believe, >however, that once Mr. Keller gets around to seeing the curtain removed he >will see why Gilbert used the shroud. > >3. Mr. Keller states that Gilbert�s �strange treatment� of PRR�s Belpaire >firebox was �carried forward into Flyer�s HO switcher, which dutifully copied >the firebox slope of the S gauge original�. Not so, because the HO version >of the B6b appeared much earlier. The non-smoking version No. 155 appeared >in the 1949 AF catalogue, and the smoke and cho-choo version No. 433 was >catalogued in 1955. The 21004 appeared in 1957. Beauty is in the eye of the >beholder and toy trains often have compromises. However, I believe that you >will find that the Gilbert model is superior in a number of ways to the >Lionel versions in terms of proportion, side tank detail, proper cab size, >etc. when the models are compared to prototype photos, copies of which you >good folks there at Kalmbach possess. The 21004 was in the affordable price >range and listed for $27.50. > >4. Mr. Keller states that this engine was included in three sets. The number >of sets was two. Usually, the 21004 was included in the 1957 set No. 20315, >�The Keystone Rocket�, and the 21005 was included in the 1958 set No. 20425, >�Keystone�. > >The most of the factual information stated above is to be found in the >Greenberg books on Gilbert American Flyer S Gauge, Vols. I and III. Again, I >appreciate your efforts to include vintage Flyer in your coverage in CTT, but >please let�s get the accuracy, too. > >Sincerely, > >Bob Bubeck >Midland, MI Neil Besougloff Editor, Classic Toy Trains Magazine 21027 Crossroads Circle, P.O. Box 1612 Waukesha, WI 53187 414-796-8776 nbesougloff@... ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <nbesougloff@...> Received: from rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.34]) by air-yh05.mail.aol.com (v60.28) with ESMTP; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:33:37 -0400 Received: from dns.carmodeler.com (dns.carmodeler.com [198.97.56.71]) by rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v61.9) with ESMTP; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:52:07 -0400 Received: from [192.168.1.1] by dns.carmodeler.com via smtpd (for rly-yh02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.2]) with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 14:51:24 UT Received: from email.kalmbach.com by [192.168.1.1] via smtpd (for rly-yh02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.2]) with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 14:51:16 UT Received: from [172.17.34.83] (172.17.34.83 [172.17.34.83]) by kpcexchange.kalmbach.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id RNK51VBN; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:52:03 -0500 X-Sender: nbesougloff@... Message-Id: <v0153059bb41686b36763@[172.17.34.83]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:53:17 -0500 To: RBubeck327@... From: nbesougloff@... (Neil Besougloff) Subject: Re: Flyer B6b in Classic Collectibles

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5159	From: kelvin white	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: [S-Scale] Re: Enough of this.

In message <37F29830.6CB12319@...>, lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> writes >From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > >Ed >You should get your head out of your ---. Once more Larry you are taking your personal feud with Ed into the public arena - I believe the concencus last time that 'we' didn't want to hear your bickering.... I think the time will have to come when the list administrator removes you - personally I don't think it will be loss - I've never heard you be positive about any thing S be it: Flyer Hi-rail or Scale. Enough is enough - you've gone too far -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5160	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Gondola loads

"S" lists, thanks for all the ideas...I will try all of them.....I like to add one....I pulled out my wife's roll of aluminum foil...started to form square boxes out of sheets...it looks like compressed scrape aluminum .....it looks pretty good....I think one of the better ideas was the empty spools of scotch tape..painted black as a load....again thanks, Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5161	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: Gondola loads

I made crates of styrene scribed to represent boards and painted. The size was such that four fill a Flyer gondola. The crates are notched to fit the internal braces in a Flyer gondola and that holds them in place in any Flyer gon. I made shipping labels on a word processor, reduced them many times on a copier, and glued them to the crates. If you use a magnifying glass you can read the labels on the crates. If you make the crates a little smaller, then you can fit five the same as the Flyer containers. "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" wrote: > > From: "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> > > "S" lists, > > thanks for all the ideas...I will try all of them.....I like to add > one....I pulled out my wife's roll of aluminum foil...started to form > square boxes out of sheets...it looks like compressed scrape aluminum > .....it looks pretty good....I think one of the better ideas was the > empty spools of scotch tape..painted black as a load....again thanks, > Jeff > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5162	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Milwaukee Road Geep

I see a Flyer-by-Lionel Geep in Miwaukee road colors went for $185 on eBay today. I thought (obviously incorrectly) this was one of the 1998 units abandoned by Lionel (along with the Conrail SD40). I realize eBay "creates' market price (and probably a more authentic price, given the nature of a public auction). But is this about "right" for this unit? I haven't seen a lot of Milwaukee Road Geeps around; I presume it's more rare than, say, the LTI/AF Nickel Plate Geeps. Paul Schneider, leaving tomorrow for a week-long job in Colorado.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5163	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: Gondola loads

Years ago, one of the mags suggested painted-over Kodak flashcubes as container loads. the base pointed up gives an interesting look to them. Chuck Smith wrote: > From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> > > I made crates of styrene scribed to represent boards and painted. The > size was such that four fill a Flyer gondola. The crates are notched to > fit the internal braces in a Flyer gondola and that holds them in place > in any Flyer gon. I made shipping labels on a word processor, reduced > them many times on a copier, and glued them to the crates. If you use a > magnifying glass you can read the labels on the crates. If you make the > crates a little smaller, then you can fit five the same as the Flyer > containers. > > "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" wrote: > > > > From: "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> > > > > "S" lists, > > > > thanks for all the ideas...I will try all of them.....I like to add > > one....I pulled out my wife's roll of aluminum foil...started to form > > square boxes out of sheets...it looks like compressed scrape aluminum > > .....it looks pretty good....I think one of the better ideas was the > > empty spools of scotch tape..painted black as a load....again thanks, > > Jeff > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5164	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: dim that dining car

You may be better off to determine the right size of a resistor to put in series with that bulb. If the bulb is too bright, it may also be too hot, and manila paper close to it could be trouble. David_Horn@... wrote: > From: David_Horn@... > > I tried something that worked really well. Cut a manilla file folder to > size as an insert. It dimmed the car's illumination from bright white to a > yellowish glow very similar to that from my much older 661's and 96X cars. > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5165	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Hi-Railers Questions

For what it's worth...here are my answers... 1)Yes-Something in the lines of SHS in kit form would not intimidate me. As for locos, if the drive train was pre-assembled, I'd have no problem with assembling a diesel or even a steamer for that matter...just don't like the motor/gears/etc part. 2)Yes. Even though I run Hi-Rail and AF couplers, I have prototype scratchbuilt structures, authentic to the time period vehicles and realistic scenery. Hi-Rail doesn't necessarily mean toy-like. 3)Yes. I have several AF loco's painted up for mainlines that never had such power. That's part of the fun I think. 4)Again...this is one mans opinion and we will all differ here, but mine are Atlantic Coast Line, Seaboard Air Line, Central of Georgia, L&N, FEC, Southern and most other southeast roadnames. 5)This depends on the price. If it will run several hundred dollars, I'd expect to have something similar to what the AM pacifics offer. 6)No. I think this limited run scam is running out of control now. It seems to me that everything you buy now is a special limited edition or collectors edition or some other term that really means pay more now because we might actually sell out...someday. 7)An affordable gas-electric would be my first choice. To me affordable means less than $250.00 or so. No brass please. I'm not in the market for an S gauge investment. Also some sort of low-hood Geep might be nice. Also a mid-size trolley would be nice. Something in between Putt trains tiny trolley and the huge Budd cars. One that works on a Flyer curve. Ok, let the flames start licking my boot straps, I'll try to out run them! :>) Regard"S" Al Babbitt-Rocky Mtn. Hi-Railers NASG Boise, ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5166	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Enough of this.

That is true but that is where he attacked me and that is where I will respond. He backs off and I you wont hear a word from me. Larry kelvin white wrote: > From: kelvin white <kelvin@...> > > In message <37F29830.6CB12319@...>, lawrence jackman > <ljack70117@...> writes > >From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > > >Ed > >You should get your head out of your ---. > > Once more Larry you are taking your personal feud with Ed into the > public arena - I believe the concencus last time that 'we' didn't want > to hear your bickering.... > > I think the time will have to come when the list administrator removes > you - personally I don't think it will be loss - I've never heard you be > positive about any thing S be it: Flyer Hi-rail or Scale. > > Enough is enough - you've gone too far > -- > Kelvin White > Oxford England > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5167	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: Enough of this.

Kelvin, Now you know why large numbers of Loyalist left the Colonies after that bit of unpleasantness during the later part of the 18th century. My, how they love to go on and on. I bet they never tried to disguise a tension-lock coupler. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5168	From: Al Muncy	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: 360-361

does anybody know of a source for new alco body shells for AF 360-361 A=B engines.AL

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5169	From: Brian Johns	Date: 9/30/1999
Subject: HiRail thoughts...

"Hi, my name is Brian and I'm an AF-aholic." As an AF HiRailer operator here are my thoughts: > What do HiRailers (I presume AF type operators are in this group) want?? I've seriously considered abandoning AF and jumping the tracks to 3-rail 0-27. Why? A-F-F-O-R-D-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y and A-V-A-I-L-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y. Affordability: I just got the latest Lionel catalog from a local dealer. As I flipped through the pages...'gosh, look at all this KEWL NEW stuff!" The #464 Lionel Sawmill is $99.95. Gosh! I could spend $100 and own a "mint-in-box" SAWMILL! What would $100 buy me in a Flyer sawmill? A "kit" that's missing parts and needs repainting to look pretty again and hours of tweaking to make it work? Or how about the Linex Oil Derrick for $70 with it's bubbling glass tube? What in Flyer would $70 buy me that has a bubbling tube? Another "kit?" Or maybe I'll spend $50 for the KCC-1999A K-Line "Yearly-A" Membership and get a two-person handcar and a Streamliner Observation car. Brand new, no dings and scratches, and I get the privilege of opening the box for the first time. Now, lessee...what kind of Flyer handcar AND passenger car would $50 buy me?? Availability: I live in Wichita, KS. There are *maybe* 3 swap-meet shows a year close to here...most of them are around the winter holidays (of course) -- when money is the scarcest. Two of the shows are in Nov/Dec right when my discretionary money is at it's yearly low because I'm buying gifts for others, not myself. So where do I get AF trains and accessories? Wichita has a VERY NICE train shop (http://www.rrtrains.com/) that's recently expanded into a wonderful new store. I want to support a local effort as nice as this as much as I can, but out here in Kansas there's rarely any AF on their "consignment" shelves. I can't justify the cost of the new AM they have in stock (though I do admit that the occasional nose-print that appears on the sliding glass door of the showcase is mine). I purposefully haven't subscribed to a couple of train magazines in order to give them SOME business, no matter how small. There's another Lionel dealer in a local mall that has an attractive (almost "cute") little 0-4-0 Lionel steamer set NEW in shrink-wrap for $70. They haven't developed a "used" or "consignment" area yet. No Flyer opportunities there. How about the local Antique Malls? The only Flyer I've seen in a 60-mile radius is a Casey Jones engine in a zip-loc baggie with a few pieces of broken PM rolling stock and a red 5-digit caboose for $80. <sigh> So I'm left with eBay. It's convenient, entertaining and educational. Lots of other people are in the same boat as me, and as a result we're busy fighting over parts-box junk and driving prices out of reason to support our AF habits. I've seen the true depths of my AF addiction within the last month or so when I paid $20.50 (that includes shipping) for a #591 Crossing gate to protect my "S"itizens on only one side of the track. Well, let me restate that. I paid for a crossing gate "starter kit." http://www.feist.com/~bljohns/trains/insanity.html if you wanna see it. It's really sad... The repro parts to complete it are going to cost $50, not including the paint. Now don't get me wrong...I'm certainly aware the same money would have bought a much nicer #591. It wouldn't have been in "new" condition, but probably too good to "desecrate" by repainting it. (But I did like the "paint is a part" theory.) By buying an awful, beat-up base alone like this and rebuilding it I'll end up with something that looks (almost) brand new and I'll have the satisfaction of knowing I restored a small piece of history and got to have a little fun in in the process. But what would $70 have bought me from Hobby Surplus Sales in NEW 0 gauge items? Enough activity at the grade crossing to protect even Mr. Magoo from the train! $15.00 MDK Automatic Crossing Gate $15.00 MDK Automatic Crossing Gate (one for each side) $50.00 6-12713 Automated Gateman Hmmm, it also occurs to me if I were using 0-27 I wouldn't have to spend $50-60 in relays and/or electronic devices to build a single reverse loop on my layout. (I need something more automatic than a DPDT switch.) Insulated rails are also a great way to regulate two trains on a single loop without buying a $30 electronic device. Finally, you can lay a whole lot more 0-27 track inside 4' x 8' than you can Flyer track. This allows a REALLY busy layout in a small space. So why are my Flyers STILL on my train table? Hmmm...I guess there's just **Something About Flyer**. <grin> Yeah, it's the realism of two rails. I think the AF track looks great when mounted in rubber roadbed. And the choo-choo! There's NOTHING like hearing a Flyer choo-choo!! OK, so it's not RailSounds3....but it's a REAL sound instead of a recorded one. And nicely synchronized too! How about those really cool #720 track switch housings? Personally I think they're gorgeous -- they're almost "deco" in their graceful style. And a real, solid mechanical SNAP when the switch throws. Extra solenoid buzzing is conveniently optional and on-demand. <g> That's what I'd like to see in Flyer Hi-Rail. More NEW stuff, mainly accessories, priced under $100. Am I likely to see it? I'm afraid not. During my teens I had a Flyer taste on a Tyco budget. 25 years later I still have a Flyer taste, but on a modern K-Line budget. Maybe in another 25 years I'll be able to afford nice Flyer? Whoops...got a bit long-winded, huh? <g> Flyer inspires a lot of passion, huh? -=[ Brian ]=- ________________________________________________________ Old Cowboy Insight: If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'. ________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5170	From: Richard	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Thanks ..but more wanted..please!!

Guys (and Gals) Some interesting comments, and I'll get to you all as I can, and I put up a precis of responses whena few more come in.....come on you lot...dont be shy...have a say...costs nothing!! A little background to whatI grew up with as a "kit"...as some might appreciate some clarification....and it'll help with some of your responses. Those of us who model in Australia, New Zealand South Africa and the UK would probably describe a kit as a collection of components , in a semi 0r completely manufactured state, but not assembled to its ultimate design. By this "kits" such as Athearn etc would fail the definition...even Pacific Rail Shops ...skirts the edges here ..but as you have to actually assemble it then it IS. To me a AM geep is 99% finished and not a kit. Back in our childhoods when we put together plane kits etc ...we had to cut them from the sprue ..trim..assemble . re-assemble ..finish off...paint and decal...none of this "shake the box" stuff that runs around claiming to be a kit. Now dont get me wrong ..nothing wrong with this stuff...just that when I ask if peoplke are intersted in kits...then I dont mean the Athearn variety...I'm talking model plane type!! To me RTR means take it out of the box , give it juice and it runs...all prettied up and all!! So thanks to those who have answered so far...been quite educating really..REALLY !! but like the ads say there's more..has to be..so come on lets here it!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5171	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: HiRail thoughts...

Scalers are faced with the exact same dilemma. If you substitued "HO" for "O" below you would hit on the same problem. The temptation to jump to HO is great because of the two "A" words. We hang in there for the same reasons you do. It's a love for "S" that won't go away in spite of the prices and non-availability of products compared to HO. I would like to take the liberty to change the name of your sickness to S-aholic. Don't take the cure! Regards Roy >From: "Brian Johns" <bljohns@...> > >"Hi, my name is Brian and I'm an AF-aholic." As an AF HiRailer operator here >are my thoughts: > >> What do HiRailers (I presume AF type operators are in this group) want?? > >I've seriously considered abandoning AF and jumping the tracks to 3-rail >0-27. Why? > >A-F-F-O-R-D-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y and A-V-A-I-L-A-B-I-L-I-T-Y. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5172	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Enough of this

Ed and Larry, It's clear neither of you is willing to surrender your positions. I'm afraid I must agree with Kelvin White that it may be time for both of you to leave the list. In the past, you both made contributions to the advancement of "S", but now your e-sparring has sunk to the lowest common denominator. It is no longer, if it ever was, an "agree to disagree" type of dialog. It's obvious that you both bear the other ill will, and I have lost any respect that I may have had for either of you. Note that on your oneList home page, S-Trains is listed as "Age level 10 and up" and S-Scale is "Safe for Kids". You online conduct violates both of those statements. Your constant bickering will do nothing to encourage the growth of "S". All I'm asking for is civility on the list. It is possible to be passionate about a subject without being obnoxious or combative. If either of you can retain a civil keyboard, then fine, participate in the online discussions, if not please leave. One thing is for certain: I DO NOT WISH TO RECEIVE E-MAIL FROM EITHER OF YOU. Any more direct communication from either of you I will consider as e-harrasment. Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5173	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Enough of this

Rich G; AMEN....You are right on the money....if these two want to beat each other up, why don't they find a common meeting spot and have at it...but not on this list! This is SUPPOSED to be fun...remember that word??? Now spell it boys...F-U-N. Lets get back to S trains and how to keep them running. OK? It's a severe case of "two bad apples..." It's time for these two characters to leave Dodge City. Regard"S" Al Babbitt-RMHR-NASG >>> Rich Gajnak <rich.gajnak@...> 10/01/99 05:25AM >>> From: Rich Gajnak <rich.gajnak@...> Ed and Larry, It's clear neither of you is willing to surrender your positions. I'm afraid I must agree with Kelvin White that it may be time for both of you to leave the list. In the past, you both made contributions to the advancement of "S", but now your e-sparring has sunk to the lowest common denominator. It is no longer, if it ever was, an "agree to disagree" type of dialog. It's obvious that you both bear the other ill will, and I have lost any respect that I may have had for either of you. Note that on your oneList home page, S-Trains is listed as "Age level 10 and up" and S-Scale is "Safe for Kids". You online conduct violates both of those statements. Your constant bickering will do nothing to encourage the growth of "S". All I'm asking for is civility on the list. It is possible to be passionate about a subject without being obnoxious or combative. If either of you can retain a civil keyboard, then fine, participate in the online discussions, if not please leave. One thing is for certain: I DO NOT WISH TO RECEIVE E-MAIL FROM EITHER OF YOU. Any more direct communication from either of you I will consider as e-harrasment. Rich G. Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5174	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Hey, Flyer Folks!

I would like to open a dicussion for my own personal gratification. I realize that many of you are extremely passionate about Flyer, be it made by AC Gilbert or by Lionel under the management dujour. Let us consider: WHAT IF Rich Maddox and his merry band DO decide to produce Flyer in the Orient? 1) How would you feel? 2) What if they produced the same stuff as the past 15 years? 3) What if they re-released older Flyer accessories? 4) What if they did some brand new stuff? 5) What if it were more scale detailed? 6) What if a new diesel drive mechanism were developed? 7) What would you consider fair retail price for: a) Diesels b) Steam c) Freight cars d) Passenger ars 8) Would it still be "American Flyer?" Please remember two things: 1)A.C. Gilbert's gone and he isn't coming back and 2)Wellspring isn't very likely to sell the Flyer name or tooling. Or have I opened up another can of worms? Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5175	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: 1/64 scale Acme market tractor trailer

Hi I just wanted to pass this along...I was at Acme market last night...I guess these are across the land....they have a very nice die cast tractor trailer for $4.95.....Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5176	From: Bill Porter	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Thanks ..but more wanted..please!!

Richard and Gang, A kit is a collection of the stuff required to make the whole thing. Maybe most or all of the parts require little or no shaping. Maybe they require little or no painting. The kits I am interested in provide completed castings or graphics of the parts it takes a long time to make or which are difficult to make using hand tools. For instance, brake system parts are good candidates for completed components to be supplied with a kit. For instance, a set of the appropriate decals or dry transfers is nearly as easy to do for 100 pieces as it is for one piece. For the bulk of the structure or the piece of rolling equipment, raw materials that need to be cut to length or to width, bent or otherwise modified with simple hand tools and common techniques makes sense. I can paint and otherwise decorate on my own. The kit producer performs these tasks as the value added portions. Research the model and provide plans, views and photos. Collect and package the components and the common raw materials needed to produce the model. Create the difficult or unusual detail pieces (usually castings and decals) which add quality to the model. Assemble an economically viable supply of the kits and warehouse them. Advertise, sell and ship the kits to us lucky consumers. I would like to see kits for short cars and short steam locos. Ore cars of the types used in iron mining, 'beer can' tankers, 65 foot passenger cars and steamers with six drivers are the general types I seek. Short is good because they look bit better on my small layout and give me more rolling stock items for operation. I can't be more specific on the exact models of cars since I haven't done the research. Here are a couple of points to ponder. For me, my area of interest is the Great Lakes and the cars that went onto the car ferries - especially the Straits of Mackinac. The N-scale guys (Atlas has made a living doing this) have a variety of ore cars and short cars. They build up long trains of a lot of these things when they run modules at train shows. The effect is very impressive. Now, if those cars at 40% the size of ours can look that good together, imagine what they could look like with substantial detail and size. The same car model is produced in a variety of paint schemes. Why not do that and stretch the run of car kits from 100 to 1000 as customer interest permits. Or, if the research warrants it, provide distinctive detail parts appropriate to the paint scheme and detail set. Good Luck, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Richard <richard_snook@...> To: S Trains <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 7:04 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Thanks ..but more wanted..please!! >From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > >Guys (and Gals) > >Some interesting comments, and I'll get to you all as I can, and I put >up a precis of responses whena few more come in.....come on you >lot...dont be shy...have a say...costs nothing!! > >A little background to whatI grew up with as a "kit"...as some might >appreciate some clarification....and it'll help with some of your >responses. > >Those of us who model in Australia, New Zealand South Africa and the UK >would probably describe a kit as a collection of components , in a semi >0r completely manufactured state, but not assembled to its ultimate >design. >By this "kits" such as Athearn etc would fail the definition...even >Pacific Rail Shops ...skirts the edges here ..but as you have to >actually assemble it then it IS. To me a AM geep is 99% finished and >not a kit. >Back in our childhoods when we put together plane kits etc ...we had to >cut them from the sprue ..trim..assemble . re-assemble ..finish >off...paint and decal...none of this "shake the box" stuff that runs >around claiming to be a kit. > >Now dont get me wrong ..nothing wrong with this stuff...just that when I >ask if peoplke are intersted in kits...then I dont mean the Athearn >variety...I'm talking model plane type!! To me RTR means take it out of >the box , give it juice and it runs...all prettied up and all!! > >So thanks to those who have answered so far...been quite educating >really..REALLY !! but like the ads say there's more..has to be..so >come on lets here it!! > >cheers >:~)) Richard >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5177	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Gondola Loads

Hi, you crazy bunch of trainiacs: I'm stayin' out of the latest fracas over these new scale steamers. The last thing you guys need is another opinion!! To the person who wanted loads for gons; if you are going to York, there is a man in the Red Hall (at least he has been there the last couple of times). He's usually positioned near the door closest to the White Hall (Northeast door). He makes plaster loads in a variety of shapes. Apparently he uses odd bits and pieces of mechanical/industrial shapes and drapes them with a fabric to simulate a tarp. Over this he makes his master mold. The results are quite interesting; tarped over machinery that make good gon and flatcar loads. You have to paint them yourself. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5178	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: dim that dining car

David_Horn@... wrote: .....You may be better off to determine the right size of a resistor to put in series with that bulb. If the bulb is too bright, it may also be too hot, and manila paper close to it could be trouble. My response: Try putting a diode or two in series with the bulb. Each diode drops 0.6 V and, unlike wirewound resistors, dissipate almost no power. They will run totally cool while dropping the voltage to the bulb. You can use 1 Amp. 300 PIV diodes, which you can get at Radio Shack. Type 1N4000 Series of diodes (i.e. 1N4001) would all be fine. If you want to drop 1.2 V, for example, use two diodes in series. It doesn't matter which end (cathode or anode; the cathode is marked with a band or stripe) goes toward the bulb, as long as both are placed in the same direction. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5179	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Thanks ..but more wanted..please!!

Hey Bill; Do you have the Big Cheif WaWatum on your layout?If so is it still burning coal,or converted to fuel oil?? How abouta Doug Murdocks Fudge shop? 1/64 Mackinaw bridge? What a bunch of possibilities! Brad Rockwell > > From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> > > Richard and Gang, > > A kit is a collection of the stuff required to make the whole thing. Maybe > most or all of the parts require little or no shaping. Maybe they require > little or no painting. The kits I am interested in provide completed > castings or graphics of the parts it takes a long time to make or which are > difficult to make using hand tools. For instance, brake system parts are > good candidates for completed components to be supplied with a kit. For > instance, a set of the appropriate decals or dry transfers is nearly as > easy to do for 100 pieces as it is for one piece. > > For the bulk of the structure or the piece of rolling equipment, raw > materials that need to be cut to length or to width, bent or otherwise > modified with simple hand tools and common techniques makes sense. I can > paint and otherwise decorate on my own. > > The kit producer performs these tasks as the value added portions. Research > the model and provide plans, views and photos. Collect and package the > components and the common raw materials needed to produce the model. Create > the difficult or unusual detail pieces (usually castings and decals) which > add quality to the model. Assemble an economically viable supply of the kits > and warehouse them. Advertise, sell and ship the kits to us lucky consumers. > > I would like to see kits for short cars and short steam locos. Ore cars of > the types used in iron mining, 'beer can' tankers, 65 foot passenger cars > and steamers with six drivers are the general types I seek. Short is good > because they look bit better on my small layout and give me more rolling > stock items for operation. I can't be more specific on the exact models of > cars since I haven't done the research. Here are a couple of points to > ponder. > > For me, my area of interest is the Great Lakes and the cars that went onto > the car ferries - especially the Straits of Mackinac. > > The N-scale guys (Atlas has made a living doing this) have a variety of ore > cars and short cars. They build up long trains of a lot of these things when > they run modules at train shows. The effect is very impressive. Now, if > those cars at 40% the size of ours can look that good together, imagine what > they could look like with substantial detail and size. The same car model is > produced in a variety of paint schemes. Why not do that and stretch the run > of car kits from 100 to 1000 as customer interest permits. Or, if the > research warrants it, provide distinctive detail parts appropriate to the > paint scheme and detail set. > > Good Luck, > Bill Porter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > To: S Trains <s-trains@onelist.com> > Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 7:04 AM > Subject: [S-Trains] Thanks ..but more wanted..please!! > > >From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > > >Guys (and Gals) > > > >Some interesting comments, and I'll get to you all as I can, and I put > >up a precis of responses whena few more come in.....come on you > >lot...dont be shy...have a say...costs nothing!! > > > >A little background to whatI grew up with as a "kit"...as some might > >appreciate some clarification....and it'll help with some of your > >responses. > > > >Those of us who model in Australia, New Zealand South Africa and the UK > >would probably describe a kit as a collection of components , in a semi > >0r completely manufactured state, but not assembled to its ultimate > >design. > >By this "kits" such as Athearn etc would fail the definition...even > >Pacific Rail Shops ...skirts the edges here ..but as you have to > >actually assemble it then it IS. To me a AM geep is 99% finished and > >not a kit. > >Back in our childhoods when we put together plane kits etc ...we had to > >cut them from the sprue ..trim..assemble . re-assemble ..finish > >off...paint and decal...none of this "shake the box" stuff that runs > >around claiming to be a kit. > > > >Now dont get me wrong ..nothing wrong with this stuff...just that when I > >ask if peoplke are intersted in kits...then I dont mean the Athearn > >variety...I'm talking model plane type!! To me RTR means take it out of > >the box , give it juice and it runs...all prettied up and all!! > > > >So thanks to those who have answered so far...been quite educating > >really..REALLY !! but like the ads say there's more..has to be..so > >come on lets here it!! > > > >cheers >:~)) Richard > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5180	From: STOUDT,KENNETH R.	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Misconception

I still play with Toy Trains. I said it and I'm glad! I just recently coupled up to this string and I must say it's not what I thought it was. My idea of AF trains is sitting with my son and now my grandson by our layout and watching my 335K rumble by. Or my Comet coming into the station pulling a few more cars than came with set forty years ago. My trains are a family thing something to be cherished and enjoyed. After reading some of the comments I fully expect some NUT to go into a hobby shop and blow someone away because they don't have a train they want. I can have a ball with my hobby without this list. Pop Pop

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5181	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Misconception

Brad Rockwell wrote: > > Hey Ken; Please don't let a few jerks chase you off!There's a bunch of > us here who like to PLAY with our trains.There is a huge amount of > information to be learned here.Any question about s trains will surely > get multiple answers.It does get a little STUFFY at times,but every list > I'm on has a few folks that seem to thrive on making others feel > bad.I've been on this one so many years David Dewey is the only name i > recognize from the early days other than Paul of course.He's also one > of the few witha sense of humor.I've learned to keep my mouth shut most > of the time and just print out the useful tips.Pleas don't give up on us > yet.Paul has a SUPER website.Even better than Lloyds"Flyerville Station" > If your into s trains,please hang in their and just use your delete > button for the whiners.It won't take you long to figure who they are! > Brad > > > > > From: "STOUDT,KENNETH R." <STOUDTKR@...> > > > > I still play with Toy Trains. I said it and I'm glad! I just recently > > coupled up to this string and I must say it's not what I thought it was. My > > idea of AF trains is sitting with my son and now my grandson by our layout > > and watching my 335K rumble by. Or my Comet coming into the station pulling > > a few more cars than came with set forty years ago. My trains are a family > > thing something to be cherished and enjoyed. After reading some of the > > comments I fully expect some NUT to go into a hobby shop and blow someone > > away because they don't have a train they want. I can have a ball with my > > hobby without this list. > > Pop Pop > > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5182	From: Bill Porter	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Thanks ..but more wanted..please!!

Yo Brad, Yes and no. I am planning to have the Chief Wawatam as a part of the new ZOT. I converted to S scale a year and a half ago after 31 years in N and 9 before that in HO. I still have the old Chief from my N scale layout. I also have the Frances Burgdorf book about it and a copy of the hull plans from AmShip in Toledo. The Chief was built the year before the Titanic went sailing. It had 6 hand fired, coal powered boilers that drove three screws. One screw was in the bow to assist her in ice-breaking duties. Instead of the four tracks of the original, I'll probably only have two tracks inside. Due to space limitations, I may be forced to model the Sainte Marie (II) which was a lot like the Chief, but was shorter. An S model of the Chief Wawatam would be about 5 feet long. The chief has been retired for quite a few years. I believe the last powered sailing was in 1984. The hull is used as a floating warehouse up north there some where - I think it is on the Canadian side at the Soo although I have lost track a bit. If there is any interest in car ferries, on the list, I'll scan a few photos and add them to my personal site at: http://wpporter.home.att.net/ We have some land up there and I made a picture frame out of some driftwood that came up on our beach (oak boards) to hold a print of the Chief. Maybe the lumber fell off of an open load or got bumped by the Chief before making land fall. It adds to the romance. Great ZOT itS, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Brad Rockwell <bradrock@...> To: s-trains@onelist.com <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 10:40 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Thanks ..but more wanted..please!! >From: Brad Rockwell <bradrock@...> > >Hey Bill; Do you have the Big Cheif WaWatum on your layout?If so is it >still burning coal,or converted to fuel oil?? How abouta Doug Murdocks >Fudge shop? 1/64 Mackinaw bridge? What a bunch of >possibilities! Brad Rockwell >> >> From: "Bill Porter" <wpporter@...> >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5183	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: Misconception

S-Train Guys; Now, see what a couple of you have done. Read and re-read Kenneth Stoudts response. Here's someone that apparently is new to the list and what kind of a first impression does he get? It's time to realize what a blessing this list for us "S-Gaugers", and how we can ALL learn something new from the helpful contributions of others on the list. What kind of first impression can one get by the whining and bickering of a couple of guys that are way too serious to remember that WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TOY TRAINS here! Just a few years ago it would be unheard of to get the tremendous volumes of instant help that has been generated by this wonderful list. Back then, we would either spend a small fortune calling someone halfway across the nation for an answer to a repair problem OR we would pack up our prized possession and ship it off somewhere else to have a repair or replacement part installed, have to wait weeks and sometimes be dissappointed or shocked with either the results or the bill...or both. PLEASE CONSIDER WHAT A VAST INFORMATION LINK WE HAVE HERE! There is no price that can be placed on the value of wisdom and practical experience that comes from the majority of subscribers to this list. LET'S NOT ABUSE WHAT WE HAVE! Rgard"S" Al Babbitt-RMHR-NASG Boise, ID >>> "STOUDT,KENNETH R." <STOUDTKR@...> 10/01/99 07:53AM >>> From: "STOUDT,KENNETH R." <STOUDTKR@...> I still play with Toy Trains. I said it and I'm glad! I just recently coupled up to this string and I must say it's not what I thought it was. My idea of AF trains is sitting with my son and now my grandson by our layout and watching my 335K rumble by. Or my Comet coming into the station pulling a few more cars than came with set forty years ago. My trains are a family thing something to be cherished and enjoyed. After reading some of the comments I fully expect some NUT to go into a hobby shop and blow someone away because they don't have a train they want. I can have a ball with my hobby without this list. Pop Pop Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5184	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Trains!

I have only been on this list a few months...to be honest growing up with my flyer and Marx trains where very sweet and happy moments that I shared with my brother,sister and my late father.....when I found this list by accident I was happy to see the intrest and help available which put me into motion to start my permanent flyerville...I just can't image the tension on this list as of late....sweat the "BIG" stuff gentlemen....a day ago in our area a man killed his whole family...kids..and mother inlaw....that is what matters....enjoy this little hobbey....enjoy the electronic friendship.....and have a little fun....it does not last forever.....Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5185	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: My Disappointment in The List

Dear "S" KIDS You know my knowledge of the "S" scale hobby is rather limited since I've only been involved for a little over a year. This is why I signed on to one- list.I was told this was a good place to learn from the people who have the knowledge and experience and are willing to share that knowledge. But,the last month or so this list has become one argument after another, and that my friends is no fun. Isn't it obvious that life in this scale is tough enough.Convincing people to get involved, or asking manufactures to produce new products, and the doubt of turning a profit are viable questions.Then, we do get others interested and invite them to become a part of our group, what are they seeing? People who will not even look at another persons view or willing evaluate what they are saying. Frankly who needs this? I know I don't. If there is a problem with one persons opinion remember its only an opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Take your comments to that individual one on one and leave it off the list. JUST BECAUSE WE PLAY WITH TOYS DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVE TO ACT LIKE CHILDREN!!! COME ON GUYS GROW - UP Bill Sandrus Boise ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5186	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: for a switch....er

Which do you recommend, SHS's SW-9 or AM's SW-12? Whe? I'm looking for a well behaved short-wheelbase switcher to use on my accessories siding. By well-behaved I mean go slow and smoothly, reverse and forward with minimum travel and jerk. I've considered buying a 21155 or using the 371 I own. The 21155 is cute and short but not necessarily smooth and slow, or reliable. The 371 is fiercely fast and powerful, but travels some before changing directions, and occassionally pops its own power truck off the track when stopping. Do either the SW-9 or SW-12 have auto-forward like my AM GG1 (i.e. after it sits idle for 10-15 seconds it automatically cycles to forward)? Thanks for your help.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5187	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Special Price Page

Howdy Friends With several locomotive projects coming together in the near future, we need to send a chunk of $$,$$$ overseas in the very near future. Fastest and cheapest way to generate cash is to move out existing inventory, so here is the list. http://www.btsrr.com/btssale.htm Quantities are very low on most items, so email, fax, or call - yep, working over the weekend again. Waiting for snail-mail, even though it has become faster lately, will result in you missing a deal! Thanks, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5188	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: changing gauges

brian brings up a valid point-too many people are unaware that S exists anymore. however, the same was true for standard gauge-since 1939. i doubt that McCoy or even MTH-Lionel (they DID get along once upon a time) standard gauge production ever made any impression on the electric train market-it took MTH committing to relatively large production runs of long extinct engines to bring the gauge back to life. and living it is-there are 3 engines, two passenger sets and half a dozen items of freight and accessories on your dealer's shelves right now-and that's just so far this year! so what will it take for S? the same risky commitment that brought standard back to life. a fairly big production run of a desirable flyer set.something that will catch the eye of joe 0 gauge and make him say, "that just might be fun" the Gilbert accessory re-issues are always popular-why else would Lionel use them again and again? so here"s my idea-re-issue the franklin set and have a First 50 stamp on the first 50, just like gilbert did.ok guys, there's my 2 cents worth-have fun-john

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5189	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er

David; Based on my personal experience you cannot get a smoother, quieter, better operating diesel switcher than the SHS SW-9!!!! Yes it does have auto direction whereas after a few moments sitting idle, it will always begin in forward. This is by far the finest little loco I've EVER owned. This comes from a guy that has been into "S" for about 2 years and came from both HO and N. Even though those scales have great DC locos, nothing compares to the SW-9. Don Thompson deserves a standing ovation for such a wonderful little diesel. It make me wonder how he will out-do himself with the coming F units? Regard"S" Al Babbitt-RMHR-NASG Boise, ID >>> <David_Horn@...> 10/01/99 12:57PM >>> From: David_Horn@... Which do you recommend, SHS's SW-9 or AM's SW-12? Whe? I'm looking for a well behaved short-wheelbase switcher to use on my accessories siding. By well-behaved I mean go slow and smoothly, reverse and forward with minimum travel and jerk. I've considered buying a 21155 or using the 371 I own. The 21155 is cute and short but not necessarily smooth and slow, or reliable. The 371 is fiercely fast and powerful, but travels some before changing directions, and occassionally pops its own power truck off the track when stopping. Do either the SW-9 or SW-12 have auto-forward like my AM GG1 (i.e. after it sits idle for 10-15 seconds it automatically cycles to forward)? Thanks for your help. [Attachments have been removed from this message] Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5190	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er

In a message dated 10/1/99 3:56:56 PM, David_Horn@... writes: << Do either the SW-9 or SW-12 have auto-forward like my AM GG1 (i.e. after it sits idle for 10-15 seconds it automatically cycles to forward)? >> Both my hi rail SHS SW-9 and AM SW-12 have auto-forward. The SW-12 is available with an optional slow gearing, but the SW-9 is the nicer piece. My sample of the Gilbert 371 operates reasonably well as a shifter, so you might want to work on the reverse unit and check the lubrication of the motor on yours. The Gilbert GP's and the SHS SW-9's have their (knuckle) couplers attached to the trucks while the AM SW-12 does not. So as a practical matter in tinplate operations, the 371 and the SW-9 will be more fool proof if a coupling needs to be made on a curve in one of your sidings, IMO. {BTW, why not a 343 in superior condition and a high state of tune for this chore?} Have fun. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5191	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er

Do I understand right that the Baldwin S-12's have the same AAR type-B road truck used under the FA-2s and RS-3's. Has anyone checked body dimensions against the prototype units--I am sure they don't have the stretched cab like AF did to accomodate the motor, but would like to know if any differences exist. RBubeck327@... wrote: > From: RBubeck327@... > > In a message dated 10/1/99 3:56:56 PM, David_Horn@... writes: > > << Do either the SW-9 or SW-12 have auto-forward like my AM GG1 (i.e. after it > sits idle for 10-15 seconds it automatically cycles to forward)? >> > > Both my hi rail SHS SW-9 and AM SW-12 have auto-forward. The SW-12 is > available with an optional slow gearing, but the SW-9 is the nicer piece. My > sample of the Gilbert 371 operates reasonably well as a shifter, so you might > want to work on the reverse unit and check the lubrication of the motor on > yours. The Gilbert GP's and the SHS SW-9's have their (knuckle) couplers > attached to the trucks while the AM SW-12 does not. So as a practical matter > in tinplate operations, the 371 and the SW-9 will be more fool proof if a > coupling needs to be made on a curve in one of your sidings, IMO. {BTW, why > not a 343 in superior condition and a high state of tune for this chore?} > > Have fun. > > RB > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5192	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er

Thanks for your help. My only reservation about the SW-9 its top speed of 55 scale mph. While I realize that's accurate for scale and good for switching I have a toy train streak in me that likes to see 'em haul'n. AM engines run up to 100 mph. Still not AF speeds, but I've gotten used to it with my GG-1. My 371 is super (overhauled the chassis to late LTI, re-did rev unit, very smooth and fast, scale speeds of 160+ mph) it's just not "delicate" for small space manuevers. Coupling/uncoupling will be done on a curve so maybe I have to eat it on speed and go with the SW-9. I have a fanatastic 343. Love it, but it's too long to park on the siding with a car at each accessory. I want to have the switcher poised with cars on the siding, load cattle, coal, and logs, then switch the siding switch, and pull out onto the main line from there. > -----Original Message----- > From: RBubeck327@...@BEST > Sent: Friday, October 01, 1999 9:29 PM > To: David Horn/VA/Best@Best; S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: Re: [S-Trains] for a switch....er > > <<...>> In a message dated 10/1/99 3:56:56 PM, > David_Horn@... writes: > << Do either the SW-9 or SW-12 have auto-forward like my AM GG1 (i.e. > after it > sits idle for 10-15 seconds it automatically cycles to forward)? >> > Both my hi rail SHS SW-9 and AM SW-12 have auto-forward. The SW-12 is > available with an optional slow gearing, but the SW-9 is the nicer piece. > My > sample of the Gilbert 371 operates reasonably well as a shifter, so you > might > want to work on the reverse unit and check the lubrication of the motor on > yours. The Gilbert GP's and the SHS SW-9's have their (knuckle) couplers > attached to the trucks while the AM SW-12 does not. So as a practical > matter > in tinplate operations, the 371 and the SW-9 will be more fool proof if a > coupling needs to be made on a curve in one of your sidings, IMO. {BTW, > why > not a 343 in superior condition and a high state of tune for this chore?} > Have fun. > RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5193	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Hey Flyer Folks Survey

Hi Rich; Here's my answers... 1)If they pass on the savings by lowering prices that would be fine. Probably a chance of a snowball in H---. 2)That's OK too. Nothing wrong with what they DID do. 3)Fantastic...but bear in mind that they cannot parrallel their pricing structure based on collector value of original accessories. In other words, make them affordable so kids can get some of them too...like it used to be. 4)Great! They need to do some serious market research first though to see what WE want. Hopefully they wouldn't just resize some of their current "L" stuff and pass it off as new. Even though many of the "L" accessories are rather nice...some of them are just plain stupid(sorry guys). 5)Great, but I don't think that is the direction that Lionel can really achieve. If they did, it would be considered "super-detailed" and I know the price would be adjusted accordingly. Just look at the current prices of their "better" steamers...WOW! 6)Not qualified to answer this one as I don't know what they have(had)now. 7)Tough question as it depends on several of the points made above, but... all things being equal, here's my ranges a)$150.00-350.00 b)$300.00-up c)$25.00 to 50.00 d)$35.00-65.00 8)Just do as in the past and market it as Lionel/Flyer. American Flyer is synonomous with "S" gauge. Why fix it? We need to keep the AF icon. Well, there it is. Maybe I've helped you open that can of worm(gears).:>) Regard"S" Al Babbitt-RMHR-NASG Boise, ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5194	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er

Ah Ha! A clue to why David H's 371 has "jackrabbit" starts! He has LAF motors in it (did I read the posting correctly?). That's one thing I've noticed about these, the motors must be rated for lower voltages, or designed for higher RPMs, they all seem to start out at "medium speed" instead of "slow speed" any DC types out there with an idea of how to slow them down? (the LAF motors are DC, the reverse unit swaps polarity for reversing) I like my AF, but I've never been a "speed freak"--I can still see my beloved 336 taking a nose dive off the layout table when my cousins grabbed my throttle while I was fixing something else (fortunately the old linoleum was laid over more old linoleum, and the floor was kinda rotten right there where it landed!). Hmm, let's see some of that scale equipment, or even modern hi-rail stuff, take that kind of abuse and survive!! (no, better not, that wasn't something *anything* should have gone through!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5195	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Neat set on ebay

Hi all, just thought you might want to look at the photos of this NP HO set on eBay, I can't believe the price it's up to, but that's another subject, the photos are interesting. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170279991 S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5196	From: Richard	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: ore cars

Bill and all regarding ore cars <snip> I would like to see kits for short cars and short steam locos. Ore cars of the types used in iron mining, <snip> wasnt there an offering fron Scenery Unlimited for these kind of ore cars?? cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5197	From: Bill Porter	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: ore cars

Hi Richard and thanks, Yes, there is an offering in my handy-dandy SI catalog for ore car kits. They appear to be urethane castings of the ends and sides. Trucks, couplers and decals are left to the aftermarket. I have not bought one or more of these kits, yet, so I don't know if there are additional details included or just the four sides plus the floor. One reason I've not bit on them is the price tag. At about $25.00 (give or take depending on the quantity) they seem a bit pricey considering all of the things that are not included in the kit. Perhaps that is life in a small market and perhaps there are other alternatives that need to be explored. Later, Bill -----Original Message----- From: Richard <richard_snook@...> To: S Trains <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 7:27 PM Subject: [S-Trains] ore cars >From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > >Bill and all > >regarding ore cars > ><snip> >I would like to see kits for short cars and short steam locos. Ore cars >of >the types used in iron mining, <snip> > >wasnt there an offering fron Scenery Unlimited for these kind of ore >cars?? > >cheers >:~)) Richard >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5198	From: Richard	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Limited Editions

The Gang A few have questioned exactly what is meant by my decsription of limited editions. So I'll explain my reasoning. I am trying to do some ground work...am only at the starting gates in this endeavor...to try to determine how best to bring some products to market. A lot is often said that Manufacturers dont listen...I would have to agree and disagree...I KNOW a handful REALLY do listen very attentively. Unfortunately it is from listening that some projects will no doubt get shelved as manufacturers realise a good idea (to them) will carry no commercial ability..sad but true. An idea i had was to be able to offer ..say a locomotive in a number of different guises ...to suit different wants and requirements of the diferent segments of the S market. I have been listening...Im only a very small outfit (one person..gets no smaller!!)and should have product out next year..its a a start. Good planning can thawrt bad mistakes (sometimes) so Im asking...and asking...and asking again when not sure..or to refine my knowledge of what people want...not a lot of point producing what no-one wants. My standpoint has changed considerably from say 6-9 months ago as I have listened to these lists and to my little surveys (thanks to all that respond...it does make a difference). There are lessons to be garnered from the way other commodities in other markets are sold...and the way the "product" is re-invented and repackaged to suit the idioms of the intended marketplace. An idea I have to incorporate this kind of multi-roling for a product in "S" might be to have a particular locomotive the ABC-123. It could be offered a a limited edition, fully RTR (painted and finished) numbered with a unique number and paint scheme only available in this form...packaged in nice box say with loco histiry and authentication certificate...these might be a run of 50-100 per version...say hypothetically an ABC-123 numbered 456 for road Unspecific. This version of livery and number would not be offered ever again (its limited after all).might have full bells and whistles regalia!! This same locomotive would be offered RTR in some other schemes and numbers ona more constant basis...but plain wrapping and lesser accessories. So far Im talking HiRAil versions. Locomotive would be engineered to take the curves (so might have truck mounted couplers etc) and probably utilise a suitably re-engineered drive from existing accepted source. This same ABC-123 loco would be offered RTR (probably Undec, but maybe in select paint schemes in limited numbers) in a SCALE version...suitable changes for body mounted couplers and the different details that a Scale offering might warrant.. This same locomotive would also be offered as a KIT...in scale only for those who enjoy building or wish to recreate a particular prototype...and save some bucks doing it... so to recap: a) KIT (scale) b) RTR (scale) c) RTR HiRail d) Limited Edtion (Hirail) By this method, potentials sales are maximised meaning potential for any given locomotive increses (not a certainty, but increases)...it would hopefully mean prices could be realistic at all levels. The particular locomotive that is the "limited Edition" would ideally remain available as a 'normal' less glorified offering but the Limiteds would be just that Limited. This is just an idea......... >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5199	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, October 03, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5200	From: William H Trefts	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Gondola Loads & Magnets

Wayne, I read your idea of adding a "L" magnetic crane to your layout to pick up your home-made canisters. BUT...I think that if you put a magnet on each canister, not only will it be picked up by the crane, but not realeased as the canister will have it's own magnetic attraction to the core of the crane. Have fun experimenting!!! Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5201	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er

How about an SW-1200 or SW-1500 with Flexicoil trucks, MU on at least the cab end, etc. This would be a good one for lighter branch lines, and it had prototypes in the past. Rock Island had a group of each of these, even made cow/calf sets with a couple of the 15's.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5202	From: Richard	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er

Ironhorse (whomever) and the regular gang > <snip> > How about an SW-1200 or SW-1500 with Flexicoil trucks, MU on at least the cab > end, etc. This would be a good one for lighter branch lines, and it had > prototypes in the past. Rock Island had a group of each of these, even made > cow/calf sets with a couple of the 15's. <snip A SW1500...gee what a good idea <REALLY BIG GRIN :-) > seriously hadn't given any thought to calf (calves??) cos there aren't any (I think) Now someone will fire back with a pic of some 1500 after a wreck rebuilt as calf or something!!! But still in the Tradition of AF and Lionel..models can be a little imaginative!! I am considering a RTR version for the SW1500 in HiRAil if there is sufficient interest (20-25 units). No interest ..no loco cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5203	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: playing with trains

Several recent postings have (loosely) stated that we ought to concentrate solely on exchanging information about playing with our trains. Now, this is my favorite thing to do. I do love to see that North Coast Limited come charging out from behind the sofa. But it's more complicated than that. Bickering and personal insults have no place on s-list, I'm sure we all agree. There have been two acrimonious exchanges on the list in the last few weeks; I was involved in one. One post stated that this stuff would drive people away from the hobby. I don't think it's gotten that bad yet. The problem is, there are issues involved. For one thing, all hobby manufacturers and magazines are locked in symbiotic relationships, which results in the fact that NEGATIVE information, especially about new products, can be very hard to find. Since s-list is just about our only way to exchange this kind of info, a disproportionate amount of s-list material will fall in this category. We're washing s gauge's dirty laundry here, not trying to look good. A perfect example is in David Dewey's last posting. Yes, new locos have smaller less power-hungry motors than original AF, and will often run at medium speed on the Flyer starting voltage of 5-7v, where a Gilbert loco would be standing still at that setting. In addition to trains, we all have to deal with manufacturers, magazine publishers, dealers, associations, and even the government, and with the effects of their actions. Again, these entities do not broadcast negative information on themselves, and we have to deal with it here. Now this is stuff that can make people mad, and we will have flareups. But it's got to be done anyway. If I feel that price guides are worthless, this is the place to spread, test, and share my ideas. Anyone can do the same, and it is a sure thing that more good than bad will come out of it. The saying is that a people gets the government it deserves. Its corrolary is true here: we will get the hobby we deserve. We can just keep our heads in the sand and let it roll over us. Or we can speak up and try to shape it more to our liking. I prefer that second choice, and s-list is the place to do it. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5204	From: M.McConnell	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er

David, I purchased a SW-9 about a year ago and can heartily recommend it for its performance. The engines are available in AC & DC and with a 'normal' gear ratio and a 'low' gear ratio. I purchased an AC low ratio engine. The top speed is about half to 2/3 of the normal, but the low-end performance is just great. My only complaint is the bottom of the gear case on the trucks is low enough that it rubs the center of the re-railer sections of AF track. If the engine is running slow enough, the engine stalls on the section of track - the wheels are lifted off the rail. If you keep the speed up, the engine will slide across, usually :) >>>> Message: 16 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 15:57:10 -0400 From: David_Horn@... Subject: for a switch....er Which do you recommend, SHS's SW-9 or AM's SW-12? Whe? <<<<

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5205	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: A Job Well Done

Dear "S"Men, I just got home from work opened up the mail and to my surprise the old one list has has prevailed. You guys have done a great job. Thanks Bill Sandrus Boise ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5206	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Sunday Topics

This weeks Sunday night chat subjects are Flyer steam engine maintenance and christmast layouts. Other topics are also welcome. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for connection details. See ya Sunday. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5207	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/1/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er

I understand AM has only one "B" power truck. The same one as used under all the "B" truck units he makes. I have not checked SHS truck but my bet is it is prototype Larry ironhors@... wrote: > From: ironhors@... > > Do I understand right that the Baldwin S-12's have the same AAR type-B road truck > used under the FA-2s and RS-3's. Has anyone checked body dimensions against the > prototype units--I am sure they don't have the stretched cab like AF did to > accomodate the motor, but would like to know if any differences exist. > > RBubeck327@... wrote: > > > From: RBubeck327@... > > > > In a message dated 10/1/99 3:56:56 PM, David_Horn@... writes: > > > > << Do either the SW-9 or SW-12 have auto-forward like my AM GG1 (i.e. after it > > sits idle for 10-15 seconds it automatically cycles to forward)? >> > > > > Both my hi rail SHS SW-9 and AM SW-12 have auto-forward. The SW-12 is > > available with an optional slow gearing, but the SW-9 is the nicer piece. My > > sample of the Gilbert 371 operates reasonably well as a shifter, so you might > > want to work on the reverse unit and check the lubrication of the motor on > > yours. The Gilbert GP's and the SHS SW-9's have their (knuckle) couplers > > attached to the trucks while the AM SW-12 does not. So as a practical matter > > in tinplate operations, the 371 and the SW-9 will be more fool proof if a > > coupling needs to be made on a curve in one of your sidings, IMO. {BTW, why > > not a 343 in superior condition and a high state of tune for this chore?} > > > > Have fun. > > > > RB > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5208	From: TRITCHWC4I@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: changing gauges

The Franklin set was a cheap set when it was first issued, why would you think this set is so great to jump start FLYER. I would venture to say that almost any other FLYER set would be better for reissue!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5209	From: Richard	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Jump starting Flyer

Rolling out comments 45, 68 and 137!! Sorry about irreverence...may I respectfully suggest that those suggesting that Flyer could be kick started by dredging up an old style train set have had heads firmly planted in sand for the last 25 years. The world has moved on..irreversibly!! Lionel needs to go back to fundamentals and reinvent Flyer in the mold of "todays" kids. Bachmann have got it...maybe the ex Bachmann influence will instill some of this thinking...or is he the one Bachmann are happy enough to let go?? (had to be asked). Tin track and non proportional liberties taken with models will not stand up in the market place any longer. Whilst existing Flyer fans would love to see this old style stuff, you do not represent a commercial entity of sufficient interest to warrant this approach...that unfortunately is also fact...otherwise the product you so dearly wish would be on the shelves as these companies would not waste the opportunity to make a buck. There is nothing wrong with Flyer, but it need sto face a modern marketplace. Flyer could prosper very well by going back to the grass roots of supplying the family trainset for the Christmas tree. MAke it a halfway decent model of something recognisable to the current era (doesnt mean it has to be modern...just recognisable)...and just like Bachmann have it selling for $160-200 bucks...then roll out a new era of trackside accesories..but these would be able to be linked to the family PC...guys its the naughties (almost) not the fifties. Flyer will (or could be ) given a new lease of life ...but not by existing modelers...but by a new bunch of boys and girls who'll oooh and aaaah at the the trains and badger their Mums and Dads to get that trainset. Bachmann have probably sold in the order of a couple of hundred thousand On30 sets (yes all those zeros) 5000 Flyer fans wanting an old Flyer set havent got a hope in hell in todays market place . My recipe for the panacea to cure all our woes...get Bachmann to buy Flyer off Lionel...but even dumb Lionel (The epitome of a waste of space, and tradition) would know it was selling its best hidden asset. To get Flyer back on the map...look forward...not back... The really good responses ...back to the list...all the flames...come to me directly please!! >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5210	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: HEY, FLYER FOLKS

My wish list is quite simple. 1) An S gauge starter set under $150 to get children from 5 to 12 into the 2 rail right "S"ize hobby as they grow up. Not for kit bashing, maybe modern prototype. Standing at the Belfry Station on the Stony Creek Branchline of the Reading RR, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5211	From: Jeffrey Madden	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: HEY, FLYER FOLKS

>From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> >To: A/S-Trains <s-trains@onelist.com> >Subject: [S-Trains] HEY, FLYER FOLKS >Date: Sat, 02 Oct 1999 13:29:12 -0400 > >From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > >My wish list is quite simple. > >1) An S gauge starter set under $150 to >get children from 5 to 12 into the 2 rail >right "S"ize hobby as they grow up. >Not for kit bashing, maybe modern >prototype. > >Standing at the Belfry Station on the >Stony Creek Branchline of the >Reading RR, Glenn > >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm My Flyer wishlist - based on Bachmann exec background. Just mimic some of Bachmann HO in S. This could be Lionel's 2-rail line. 1. An old time Sn3 (how bout that) set based on On3 set on HO track. Tweetsie engine, couple pass cars, couple freight cars. Now why Sn3 you say. Fits ceramic villages. Or could do old-timey style in standard S using a standard gauge 4-6-0 also. Would give ceramic villages a train, Christmas type for round tree. If detailed like Bachmann's it would satisfy scalers too. 2. Maybe using above scenario, a USRA 0-8-0 with detailed plastic body steam engine, freight and mow cars as set. This might be a niche L could start, and then later expand to diesels and bigger steam engines. Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5212	From: Bill Porter	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: ore cars

Hi Richard and others who might be interested, I think that if I do the assembly and decoration work, my out of pocket should be under $25.00. I can then build a nice train of a dozen cars for about $300. That means I need to allow for trucks, couplers and decals if those are not included. The Scenery Unlimited offerings at about $25.00 require 3 or 4 dollars for couplers plus something for trucks. SHS trucks or AM trucks are in there at about $6.00. Scenery Unlimited offers 'correct Andrews' trucks for $14.00. Decals are another 3 or 4 bucks. So that means the SI car comes to between $37 and $47. That brings a train of cars up closer to $600 and such a price is unappealing. I can start with Flyer hoppers in need of repair, add trucks, couplers, decals, some detail parts and do a little body work. Possibly sell off the old Flyer trucks if they are in working condition and meet my target of under $25 - perhaps even under $20 - for a similar amount of work. I hope that is helpful. Keep me posted on your progress and consider me for a possible beta test site for a kit project. If this was a computer product - that would mean I would pay for and work on the kit. I would provide feedback and you would get to answer a bunch of (either astute or foolish depending on point-of-view) questions from me during the test. Then, with the rough spots smoothed and perfect assembly instructions composed and revised, you would be ready for massive production. Later, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Richard <richard_snook@...> To: Bill Porter <wpporter@...> Date: Friday, October 01, 1999 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] ore cars >Bill ><snip> > >> One reason I've not bit on them is the price tag. At about $25.00 (give or >> take depending on the quantity) they seem a bit pricey considering all of >> the things that are not included in the kit. Perhaps that is life in a small >> market and perhaps there are other alternatives that need to be explored. >> <snip> > >What would you think fairer for this sort of offering?? (I dont recall whether >they came with trucks..probably not) > > >cheers >:~)) Richard > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5213	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: for a switch....er

Yes, Flexicoil sideframes were used by the New Haven and several Canadian railroads on their EMD switchers. We had looked at this, but I am not sure if we could ever recoup the additional tooling charges. Maybe if we do a future run. Don T. ironhors@... wrote: > From: ironhors@... > > How about an SW-1200 or SW-1500 with Flexicoil trucks, MU on at least the cab > end, etc. This would be a good one for lighter branch lines, and it had > prototypes in the past. Rock Island had a group of each of these, even made > cow/calf sets with a couple of the 15's. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5214	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: Gondola Loads & Magnets

I assume one would not put a magnet in each container, but only a magnetic (steel) piece which is attracted when magnet is energized. William H Trefts wrote: > > From: William H Trefts <wmhtreftsv@...> > > Wayne, > > I read your idea of adding a "L" magnetic crane to your layout to pick up > your home-made canisters. BUT...I think that if you put a magnet on each > canister, not only will it be picked up by the crane, but not realeased > as the canister will have it's own magnetic attraction to the core of the > crane. > > Have fun experimenting!!! > > Bill Trefts > ___________________________________________________________________ > Get the Internet just the way you want it. > Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5215	From: Richard	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Numbers error

Folks Seems I was very wrong in my impression of Bachmann quantities.(must have been confusing Big Hauler numbers withthe On30 stuff) ..I stand ( or sit corrected)..the rest of my comments reamin as is. cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5216	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: 1/64th 53 Corvette

Hi everyone, I was in my neighborhood Wal Mart today and found something new (at least to me) in the die cast vehicles. It was a Hot Wheels Collectables edition 53 corvette convertible. This appears to be, and says it is, a true 1/64th scale version compared to the RC Mint Edition which is quite larger by comparison. The quality and detail is as good as, if not better than, Racing Champions. And there is no junky paint job. It comes in a display case type box and cost about twice that of the Racing Champions cars, about $7.95 here. There was also a 68 Corvette HT and several other more modern U.S. and European type sports cars. You might check your local stores and see if they have them or check out ediecast. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5217	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: 1/64th 53 Corvette

Dear Wayne, I found a yellow 1953 Corvette at a local Target in June and saved it to give to my partner MIke for his 50th birthday this July while we were on our way to St. Paul for the NMRA National Train Show. Funny thing, when we got back to New Jersey, he bought a new 1999 Corvette. I now wish I could have given him a s scale Mack bulldog truck with SHS on the side for hauling our trains to York! Don T. "Alice S. Beachy" wrote: > From: "Alice S. Beachy" <abeachy@...> > > Hi everyone, > > I was in my neighborhood Wal Mart today and found something new (at least to me) in the die cast vehicles. It was a Hot Wheels Collectables edition 53 corvette convertible. This appears to be, and says it is, a true 1/64th scale version compared to the RC Mint Edition which is quite larger by comparison. The quality and detail is as good as, if not better than, Racing Champions. And there is no junky paint job. It comes in a display case type box and cost about twice that of the Racing Champions cars, about $7.95 here. There was also a 68 Corvette HT and several other more modern U.S. and European type sports cars. You might check your local stores and see if they have them or check out ediecast. > > Wayne Beachy > Atlantic Coast S Gaugers- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5218	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: Re: changing gauges

Not to raise the "scale" question, but the Franklin set is also more O Scale than S. However (cue the Fiddler on the roof!) on the other hand, it would be a good candidate for the Christmas Village display folks! S' David D. (Still muttering to himself....)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5219	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/2/1999
Subject: frontiersman set

You are so right. The Frontiersman stuff is grossly oversize. I wouldn't have one on the place, any more than I would have a Casey Jones or an F-whatever. The only redeeming feature in that sucker is that the loco is the ideal start for kitbashing an exact copy of "The Little Engine That Could". Unfortunately, a junker never came my way while my son was small and I never made the cuts. But it's out there waiting to be built. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5220	From: Scott Brown	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Hmmm

Here is a tip for you ebay'rs. I've noticed lately that the same pictures keep popping up in the AF ads. I've seen several different sellers use the same picture for a 283 and 312 and 322. I'm sure there are other examples. Seems if you don't have a picture of the item you are selling, you can always use someone else's. So what if theirs was MIB and yours is JIB (junk in box). You just need to be prepared that you might not get as good a piece as you see in the picture. Just my observation. -Let the buyer beware !! Have an "S" day !! Scott Brown sbrown56@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5221	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: HEY FLYER FOLKS

American Models had a good idea in the AMTRAK set but at $300 plus and it was mainly pitched to the American Flyer crowd. What do most kids see today? NASCAR race cars and airplanes. If they live near an active freight line like the Stony Creek Branchline of the CSX (Reading/Conrail) they see old brown freight cars and black tank cars pulled by repainted diesels. Not a pretty or romantic sight. Kids like speed, how about the bullet trains, TGVs, etc. We need less price and more visability. Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5222	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Couplers = ???

Ok so I have a few hook horn type cars, and one with flyer knuckle couplers. BUT one of these days I will actualy buy some newer rolling stock. So What to do with the pethora of couplers????? Change all to KD style? change hornhook to knuckle, if so what style? This kinda info is not on any FAQ's... (hint hint hint!) course changing the originals means changing wheelsetz...????!!!!!! In other words, a simple problem (again) becomes a large one... any input helpful Course I can always use a hybrid car (diff couplers each end) for transiton. L. And I assume the newer knuckle couplers work with flyer style uncopler??? Hmmmmm maybe little wood blocks with galvanized hooks and eyes from Rylees hardware is the cheapest simplest solution :o/>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5223	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: Couplers = ???

Converting Links: When changing links to replacement knuckles the cars become very far apart when coupled. So much so that I converted my AF heavyweights back to links. Flyer compatible: The AF compatible couplers made by SHS, AM & Downs all seem to work well with Flyer. My favorites now are the newest AM couplers that allow close coupling between cars, essentially a scale-like look. These are available separately. Older AM couplers snagged on AF switches. Newer design seems OK. The SHS also work very well with each other and AF, but in mixing all the varieties I find that the squarish shape of the SHS causes some problems behind an AM geep with body mounted couplers. SHS are fine other truck mounted AF type couplers or with any loco with truck mounted couplers. Mixing Link and Knuckle: I prefer to handle link and knuckle by having a couple cars with both. An ideal solution I've used is to mount a link and knuckle on opposite ends of the same truck. Spin the truck 180 deg, and presto, you have a car that lets you handle everything. Amazing what you can do with epoxy! Kadees: I also run Kadees on superliners and AM heavyweights and they work well. I made mounts so they are truck mounted. The Amtrak loco has body mounted Kadees and this forces some restrictions like no flyer radius ess curves allowed. I have not converted freight cars to body mounted Kadees yet because I am not sure I want to deal with these restrictions. Especially when the close mounted AM couplers give roughly prototypical car spacing. LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Ok so I have a few hook horn type cars, and one with flyer knuckle couplers. > BUT > one of these days I will actualy buy some newer rolling stock. > So > What to do with the pethora of couplers????? > Change all to KD style? > change hornhook to knuckle, if so what style? > This kinda info is not on any FAQ's... > (hint hint hint!) > course changing the originals means changing wheelsetz...????!!!!!! > In other words, a simple problem (again) becomes a large one... > any input helpful > Course I can always use a hybrid car (diff couplers each end) for transiton. > L. > And I assume the newer knuckle couplers work with flyer style uncopler??? > Hmmmmm > maybe little wood blocks with galvanized hooks and eyes from Rylees hardware > is the cheapest simplest solution :o/> > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5224	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: Couplers = ???

What to do with the pethora of couplers????? Send them to me. Change all to KD style? No! change hornhook to knuckle, if so what style? Gilbert Knuckle coupler, with slot on the shank. course changing the originals means changing wheelsets ? NO, unless you are planning to go scale. To remove Horn couplers: 1. Think of the Coupler pin as a rivet. 2. Get a 2" steel tube with a hole in the end (as opposed to the side) matching the outside diameter of the coupler pin head. 3. With the pipe on a hard surface (on end) and the pin head on top. Give the other pin end a sharp tap, using a punch and hammer. 4. The pin should have popped out. Replace with Knuckle couplers with a slot made to slide over the hook coupler shank. Going scale ? replace truck and couplers. Not recommended by Gilbert buffs. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5225	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: Couplers = ???

Hi all Actually, couplers are discussed in my "Fixin' Flyer" column in the next issue of the Dispatch!! Yeah, Free Plug!! Hook Horn, known as Link Couplers, can be readily converted to Knuckle couplers, BUT! as usual, their are some tricks, but better understood with diagrams, etc. One can have one car with links on one end and knuckles on the other to adapt without going into a large outlay of conversion, or if you prefer to keep things "authentic." Nowadays, I have too much of both to go out converting. One solution is to have a Link yard and a Knuckle yard, so maybe my future layout plans need to consider this! Hey, Tom J., any great ideas--layout-wise? S David D. Run 'em if ya got 'em!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5226	From: Brian Johns	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Jump starting Flyer

> Flyer could prosper very well by going back to the grass roots of > supplying the family trainset for the Christmas tree. MAke it a halfway > decent model of something recognisable to the current era (doesnt mean > it has to be modern...just recognisable)...and just like Bachmann have > it selling for $160-200 bucks...then roll out a new era of trackside > accesories..but these would be able to be linked to the family PC... AMEN, RICHARD! <g> A basic set, at an affordable price, with a "gee-whiz" computer hook-up would shoot Flyer's visibility through the roof and set an interactive potential that other manufacturers in ALL gauges would scramble to catch up with. On-screen controlled track switches hooked together with an interactive "train-game" (No, not the "game train"!!) would be a LOT of fun for kids and adults! It would extend the computer experience beyond the monitor and into 3-D real life. The computer program could also set up various switching and spotting challenges and reward the operator with a high score, etc. Expansion possibilities might include a "track-pack" with a couple of turnouts to make a passing siding and a small switcher engine to provide alternating 2-train operation. Trackside accessories could also be interactive with their control button on-screen with various challenging tasks. But don't let Lionel in on this idea unless they promise to do it with 2-rail S track first! <g> -=[ Brian ]=- ________________________________________________________ Old Cowboy Insight: Don't worry about bitin' off more'n you can chew; your mouth is probably a whole lot bigger'n you think. ________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5227	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Flying Yankee

Hi Guy"S" , Since the Flying Yankee project has been canceled I need info. So I can build my own. As I recall one of the Mags. had a write up with drawings. Does anyone Know which issue. Any other Info would be helpfull. Thanks Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5228	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, October 03, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5229	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: chat

So --- I decided to give the s-trains chat (Sunday) a try. Up pops a site telling me I need to download a program called mirc, or something there-abouts. I started to download. opps maybe not. it seems to be one of those dowload programs that will tie up the computer for an hour or so. Maybe when a smaller program comes along. Would procomm II work? Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5230	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: :New England

Hi; Hope the rest of your trip went smooth. Did you find those other locations ? Roger Crossroads of America

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5231	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: Couplers = ???

YEars ago when I converted some 660s from link to knuckle, I either bent the drawbar to get a z, or cut the drawbar and did a lap joint with a short 2-56 screw and nut, though I think a smaller, such as 1-72 woukld probably be better--or is this too sacreligious for the purists. Chuck Smith wrote: > From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> > > Converting Links: > When changing links to replacement knuckles the cars become very far > apart when coupled. So much so that I converted my AF heavyweights back > to links. > > Flyer compatible: > The AF compatible couplers made by SHS, AM & Downs all seem to work well > with Flyer. My favorites now are the newest AM couplers that allow close > coupling between cars, essentially a scale-like look. These are > available separately. Older AM couplers snagged on AF switches. Newer > design seems OK. The SHS also work very well with each other and AF, > but in mixing all the varieties I find that the squarish shape of the > SHS causes some problems behind an AM geep with body mounted couplers. > SHS are fine other truck mounted AF type couplers or with any loco with > truck mounted couplers. > > Mixing Link and Knuckle: > I prefer to handle link and knuckle by having a couple cars with both. > An ideal solution I've used is to mount a link and knuckle on opposite > ends of the same truck. Spin the truck 180 deg, and presto, you have a > car that lets you handle everything. Amazing what you can do with > epoxy! > > Kadees: > I also run Kadees on superliners and AM heavyweights and they work > well. I made mounts so they are truck mounted. The Amtrak loco has > body mounted Kadees and this forces some restrictions like no flyer > radius ess curves allowed. I have not converted freight cars to body > mounted Kadees yet because I am not sure I want to deal with these > restrictions. Especially when the close mounted AM couplers give > roughly prototypical car spacing. > > LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > > > Ok so I have a few hook horn type cars, and one with flyer knuckle couplers. > > BUT > > one of these days I will actualy buy some newer rolling stock. > > So > > What to do with the pethora of couplers????? > > Change all to KD style? > > change hornhook to knuckle, if so what style? > > This kinda info is not on any FAQ's... > > (hint hint hint!) > > course changing the originals means changing wheelsetz...????!!!!!! > > In other words, a simple problem (again) becomes a large one... > > any input helpful > > Course I can always use a hybrid car (diff couplers each end) for transiton. > > L. > > And I assume the newer knuckle couplers work with flyer style uncopler??? > > Hmmmmm > > maybe little wood blocks with galvanized hooks and eyes from Rylees hardware > > is the cheapest simplest solution :o/> > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5232	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: frontiersman set

Dear Tom and David, I was told a long time ago that the famous E.P. Alexander designed the frontiersman set for the 50th anniversary of Flyer. E.P worked for the Pennsy and was an O gaugers. And yes, it is based on a On3 model train. Don T. Jarcho wrote: > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > You are so right. The Frontiersman stuff is grossly oversize. I wouldn't > have one on the place, any more than I would have a Casey Jones or an > F-whatever. > > The only redeeming feature in that sucker is that the loco is the ideal > start for kitbashing an exact copy of "The Little Engine That Could". > Unfortunately, a junker never came my way while my son was small and I > never made the cuts. But it's out there waiting to be built. > > Tom Jarcho > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5233	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: Couplers = ???

Iron Horse wrote; YEars ago when I converted some 660s from link to knuckle, I either bent the drawbar to get a z, or cut the drawbar and did a lap joint with a short 2-56 screw and nut, though I think a smaller, such as 1-72 woukld probably be better--or is this too sacreligious for the purists. Well, I won't get into the preservation discussion, but it seems that it would be simpler to swap to some KC trucks instead, at least a lot faster! (and then you're not cutting up some LC trucks either!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5234	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: frontiersman set

Don, Interesting, thanks! What has amazed me about the discussion is no one has mentioned the roller-bearing trucks under the wooden passenger cars! <G> S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5235	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/3/1999
Subject: Re: Flying Yankee

Dear Roger, The new book by RPC publishing starting with the CB&Q Budd cars is now on sale. It has nice Budd drawings of the Pioneer Zephyr that may be useable for the Flying Yankee. Don T. Roger Hinds wrote: > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > > Hi Guy"S" , > Since the Flying Yankee project has been canceled I need info. So I can > build my own. As I recall one of the Mags. had a write up with drawings. > Does anyone Know which issue. Any other Info would be helpfull. > > Thanks > > Roger > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5236	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Re: Flying Yankee

At 7:08 PM 10/3/99, Roger Hinds wrote: >Hi Guy"S" , > Since the Flying Yankee project has been canceled I need info. So I can >build my own. As I recall one of the Mags. had a write up with drawings. > Does anyone Know which issue. Any other Info would be helpfull. Roger, I'm not sure about the Flying Yankee, but the January, 1999 issue of Model Railroader had an article and plans for the Pioneer Zephyr which is the other portion of what 3rd Rail (Sunset) was planning to do. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5237	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: info wanted

Does anyone know how to get in touch with Jack Broomel, who was president of the Gilbert/Flyer company when it went under? I'm told he lives in Florida. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5238	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Sunday chat

I've never been able to log into the Sunday chat circuit. Is it perhaps because my computer is a Macintosh? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5239	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: It CAN be FUN here

HEY KEN, Listen to what Brad said and ignore the honoary apples! Whenever i start reading a message and someone even BEGINS to attack another, i immediately move on to the next message. I am now in two clubs a TRAIN CLUB, AF of course, and a CAR club, and belong to two lists. I have noticed in both clubs particularly my train club that there are two or three people that really do enjoy making others feel bad. Enjoy the good guys, have fun with them, and just say hi to the others and move right along. Wayne Broadhead Golden Spike American Flyer Club Corsa, Bonneville Corvair Club Message: 10 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 10:53:06 -0400 From: "STOUDT,KENNETH R." <STOUDTKR@...> Subject: RE: Misconception I still play with Toy Trains. I said it and I'm glad! I just recently coupled up to this string and I must say it's not what I thought it was. My idea of AF trains is sitting with my son and now my grandson by our layout and watching my 335K rumble by. Or my Comet coming into the station pulling a few more cars than came with set forty years ago. My trains are a family thing something to be cherished and enjoyed. After reading some of the comments I fully expect some NUT to go into a hobby shop and blow someone away because they don't have a train they want. I can have a ball with my hobby without this list. Pop Pop

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5240	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Re: Hey Flyer Folks!

I want to thank all you guys who reponded both online and offline to my informal survey. To be honest, I though most Flyer Enthusiasts were stuck in 1957, but I'm glad to say your responses have proved me wrong. (For the record, I'm a rubber-gauger, who primarily works in S Scale. I have a modest Flyer collection and have been lately concentrating on Flyer-compatible.) You responses show that the American Flyer name still carries a lot of weight, and a quality and affordable Flyer line would have a market. Now all that remains to be seen is if American Flyer survives to be a post-2K product. Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5241	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: and the switcher is....

...an ACG 343, with supporting cast member #371. Thanks for all your inputs and suggestions. After closer study, I found the primary culprit was the switch leading to the siding. It was catching the forward truck pick-up shoe on the 371, and causing both the 371 and 343 a lumpy ride in and out of the siding at slow speeds. The problem appears to be wear/deformation along the rails where the frog makes contact. The tension of the spring washer and other aspects of the switch seemed OK. I tried some filing, but ended up popping in another "fresher" left turnout and got great results. I then rearranged the accessories on the siding so the sequence of engine, hopper, 717, and cattle car work with either the 343 or 371. On the 371 - - it has an LTI chassis but still the same armature, etc, that it used to (i.e. no can motor). The only difference is metal bushings (yeah), and nylon drive gears. At "stop" voltage (5v) is doesn't move, a bit more juice and it crawls OK for an old gal without a flywheel of low-gearing. It only hops when the dead man is popped at full-throttle, and even then not every time. For the close order work on the, now much smoother, siding I use low throttle to change directions. I recommend swapping over to LTI GP/PA chassis for anyone with a finicky engine they can't quite get to run right. They made a world of difference (slow and high speed) for me with this 371 and my 470 (of course do both motors). On oiling commutators and reverse-unit barrel/fingers - - I have and enjoy Wahls Clipper oil, especially for track cleaning and maintenance, but I haven't heard it recommended that you oil motor commutators or reverse unit barrels and fingers. Instead I'm of the mind that these are better left clean but dry so as to reduce the chance of "gunking" with dust, etc. Does the fact that Wahl's is of such a light viscosity make is an exception to this adage? What do you think? On the 371's occasional drift when changing directions - - I probably should pop the shell and inspect the reverse unit, but before I do, thought I'd see what folks say about the question whether to oil drums and fingers or not. I rebuilt the reverse unit when I overhauled the motor (about 1.5 yr. ago). It never misses a shift, just once in awhile drifts a bit (~2") before popping into neutral. Not much of a problem, unless on a siding with a full line of cars already at the bumper. It might need some help in terms of lubrication, or adjustment of the brass finger that drives the ratchet. On AM of SHS - - both sound like a lot of fun to run, and I appreciate the abundance of replies and opinions I received. For now, I think I'll go with the Gilbert engines I have with the improved siding. I like the sound of the S-12's top speed, yet the detail, directional lighting, and smoothness of the SW-9 sounds great too. Perhaps the only reservation on the 9'r was the comment about it stalling at slow speeds on AF uncouplers. I've got an uncoupler near the switch outside the siding, and at the head of siding itself. I probably can't help but target a 21155 as the next li'l guy to buy.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5242	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Re: Sunday chat

Joe, Possibly, I have heard of this complaint, but it seems to me that *someone* else w/ apple products has been logged on. Seems he had to go around a few times to get there. Don't feel left out, sometimes I can't get one either, with a PC clone! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5243	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Re: and the switcher is....

David, I haven't given it much thought, but perhaps a slight modification, as I've done to my Baldwin would improve reverse unit response, and increase slower speed running. The modification is to place a full wave rectifier between the reverse unit and motor(s) on the unswitched wire. This acts as a voltage dropper; what you do is connect the DC output from the rectifier together, and use the AC leads as the original wire replacement. Of course, it will get warm, so you need to place it away from the body shell! My notes aren't handy, I don't remember what the Radio Shack number is, but they are really cheap! (an important word in my world!) It turned my Baldwin into a really reliable reversing loco, and stopped the jackrabbit starts they are famous for (Baldwin motor is different from the other dismal units). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5244	From: William H Trefts	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Flying Yankee/Zephyr

Gentlemen, I saw the add in the S Gaugian and started drooling. But I am not sure of the distinction of the Flying Yankee and the Zephyr. Are they different trains, or is one the name of the engine and the other the name of the train in entirety? Or are they the same train, but different names from the railroads that owned them. Anyway, my drool buckets are filling, and I am finagling ways to put together "under $800" to purchase a set, once I fully understand what it consists of. Then I read in the One-List that the project is cancelled due to not enough orders! So my question(s) is/are: Is it REALLY cancelled, or is this PR hype to get more orders, or if more orders gradually come in, will it be produced? I'd love to have one under the Christmas Tree!! Thanks for li"S"tening to my meanderings! Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5245	From: William H Trefts	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Dream Starter Set

Gentlemen, Being a novice in my renewal of interest in American Flyer, I was going to hold my opinion for the more learned and experienced members of the list. But, I see my opinion is shared by someone else! So here is what I would desire to see in a "starter" set. My love has always been for the 350 Royal Blue. I grew up with that engine until my sister took it back. (After all, it was bought new for her in 1948, 8 years before I was even a glimmer in my parents' eyes.) The streamlined appearance, the deep blue color, the moving linkages, all these have drawn me to that style engine. I have recently acquired the 356 with smoke and choo-choo which adds to the fun of the set. I'm digressing. My suggestion: 350 Royal Blue streamlined steam engine WITH smoke and choo-choo, probably in plastic. And possibly an on-board whistle. As to some other suggestions, plan for computer hook-up. I see many theater organs hooked up to interfaces with computers, I work on pianos that interface with computers. Why not trains? Their functions are less involved. Forward, back, slow, fast, stop, go, add accessories, again, on, off, load, unload. A set of passenger cars to match with matching paint schemes. I feel that the smoke and choo-choo add a lot to the excitement of a model railroad. And I have always admired the sets like the Great Northern and UP diesel/passenger sets. Goal to set as for a retail price, maybe under $300. Well, I'm going back to sleep to dream of this Royal Blue. Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5246	From: Joseph F. Haughney	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Does Anyone know??

I seem to remember some form of train show on Cape Cod in the Oct/Nov time frame. Is anyone aware of one or any other New England shows this and next month other than Greenberg's in December. Other point is that I ordered the B&M version of the Zepher and hope that enough orders come in to get one. Finally, My feelings are that we need to get interest with the teens of the world, by say a tie in with a computer game and/or a set which is controlled with software and works as part of a computer game. I know that it could be done with any guage but a tie in to S would open up a market if it could be done.Once the core game is sold, then addon units create the market. Face it, the forty, fifty, sixty age crowd are the current collectors and the payees of vast sums for this stuff. But we are getting fewer and there werent that many in the first place and some are actually moving over to god forbid Lionel. . But if your planning to kill two birds with one stone (e.g. enjoying while building an estate) potentially forget about it because if there are no kids interested in the stuff now, they are not going to be interested in buying our antiques when we pass on. Ah to think in thirty years a coal loader for $100 (current dollars) or less. Bottom line is that I enjoy what I have as an operator. But if we want to sell our stuff as antiques for covering nursing home expenses, we need to build the market. Our stuff isnt like antique furniture which appreciates because a large amount of male and female kids as they mature grow to appreciate old chairs and the value is maintained. Anyway, to someone creating a market and making real money in S guage so that we can have fun. Joe Haughney Of the North Shore and Cape Cod areas of Mass.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5247	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: S Scale Sale Change

Howdy Friends Di and I will be leaving for the East Broad Top Railroad Fall Spectacular and Friends of the East Broad Top Reunion on Wednesday, Oct 6, morning. Be back in the office on Tuesday, October 12. When we put the sale page on the web site, we said it was valid through October 6. Since we will be gone, I just changed that to Noon, October 5... tomorrow! If you have been waiting to order, NOW is the time!!!! Here is the list. http://www.btsrr.com/btssale.htm Thanks, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5248	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: rosemont Ill Train Show ?

Ran across this, was it on the S list or S Ga website? Hotlink went nowhere. Not in MRR either. Anyone have info on this? Show runs from the 28-31 of October. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5249	From: Gf3897@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Better late than never....???????

Sorry I'm so late in responding to some recent comments made re: Tom Jarcho.....I really didn't folow the discussion (nor do I want to rehash it)......Several months ago, I requested help from the list; i was at a loss as to the correct placement of a small spring in the "Sam the Semaphore Man" accessory. Tom was kind enouigh to respond, opening up the innards of his own "sam", describing in detail what I had requested. My life (as i'm sure a great many others) has "progressed" (?) to the point where I barely have time for myself anymore, much less responding to requests from others (please, no lectures) Tom's response was just what I needed to remedy my "sam" problem, and has also served as a personal reminder of the importance of this list........taking the time to share thoughts, ideas and calls for assistance from each other...... Thanks to each of you

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5250	From: Brian Johns	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Backdrops?

"S"alutations! Anyone know where I could find an art deco "city-scape" backdrop for my train layout? I'm looking for something that's more illustration than photograph...kind of "cartoon-like"...and very art deco. Either that, so something "dark and looming" like Batman's Gotham City. I'm wanting to do a batman themed layout, complete with bat signal. Maybe I'll even glue some FINS on a Casey Jones loco! <grin> An no, "Hotel Gotham" from Walthers isn't what I have in mind! <grin> -=[ Brian ]=- ________________________________________________________ Old Cowboy Insight: If you're ridin' ahead of the herd, take a look back every now and then to make sure it's still there with ya. ________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5251	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Semaphore

Hi "S" people, I hope a simple question....is there a simple way of hooking up a AF semaphore..to just have the arms move when the train hits the trip....there seems to be a lot of wires to this semaphore....just basic wiring instruction......I know this sounds like a dumb question.....I just want to get a little action out of these...have a pleasant evening..Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5252	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: semaphore

Yes. You need 2 track trips. Have one right at the semaphore connected to the red wire, and one one train length past it connected to the green wire. Both of these trips connect to the fixed voltage post. Black wire to base post, yellow wire to fixed voltage post. Ignore white wire unless stopping trains. When the train hits the trip near the semaphore, the semaphore will assume the stop position. When it passes over the other trip, the semaphore will return to the go position. You need #697or #670 track trips. Follow directions for them carefully and beware of the solenoid coils in the semaphore being activated for more than a few seconds at a time -- they will overheat and burn out if this happens. Be ready to cut the power to it off quickly. The semaphore is not complicated electrically. There are many ways to use it. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5253	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/4/1999
Subject: Re: rosemont Ill Train Show ?

This should be the RICTER- MRIA show. This "THE" trade show of the year. LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Ran across this, was it on the S list or S Ga website? Hotlink went nowhere. > Not in MRR either. > Anyone have info on this? > Show runs from the 28-31 of October. > > L. > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5254	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Duplicate photos

Scott Brown wrote: >I've noticed lately that the same pictures keep popping >up in the AF ads (on e-Bay). I've seen several different sellers use >the same picture for a 283 and 312 and 322. I'm sure there >are other examples. Seems if you don't have a picture of >the item you are selling, you can always use someone else's. >So what if theirs was MIB and yours is JIB (junk in box). Scott: This practice is against e-Bay's Terms of Service Agreement, probably for the very reason you have noted. If you see this happen, you owe it to yourself, and to all of us, to turn them in to e-Bay management. Do it and do us all a favor. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5255	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Why S ( & Flyer...) and track!

In this 'search' for a niche in this hobby, I can 'just buy' or attempt to make some intelligent decisions? Trying to do the latter, I reviewed from back then, WHY S and Flyer/ Smaller than O giving more layout per SF Larger than HO giving a more massive size and more durability Smoke and Choo choo TWO rails thats TWO Track that had ties spaced closer than LioneL Seemed to be neater action accessories I couldnt afford Great drive train motion on the Hudson so As I search for track, WHY the &*(&!!xxx%%*(&*( doesnt anyone product a modern version of AF track? So I can mate with whatever old Flyer stuff I have? Closest I find is Gargraves sectional, in their wisdom they have used a 54" R for switch radius not 42.... Killing the module..... AND they have LOTS and LOTS of ties so it looks like overgrown HO flextrack. And its height is half of Flyer (maybe for the roadbed which may nebber come.... No I dont wanna jury rig solid brass to AF, or raised roadbed to AF, or whatever. Do I wanna stay with FLyer trak? Donnno. But why should I spend $100 or more on new trak just to experiment?? So in the spirit of Halloween- Boooooo! or boo hoo? L. (Cant get from there to here without a hassle...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5256	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Re: Duplicate photos

I have also noted this under "digital cameras:" and "birdcages" really interesting when the seller describes a "hardly used" item, then has a photo from one of the other dealers' new items! So eBay would like to hear about such shenanigans? Hmm would keep them too busy to do anything else, I suspect! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5257	From: Andy McBride	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Chicago Hobby Show (RICTA)

>From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > >This should be the RICTER- MRIA show. This "THE" trade show of the year. > Hey S-folk, I'll be at this show for three days for work. Anybody else going be there from the list? Perhaps we could get a group together for dinner? Anybody intrested? Andrew McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5258	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Re: Why S ( & Flyer...) and track!

Lars,Lars,Lars; You need to expand your resourses. K-Line DOES make repro flyer track.Not only standard sizes but also long straights,Wide radius curves,and rubber roadbed to match! Some on this list have complained about sharp edges on k-Line track.I use it and don't see the problem especially when using roadbed. I bet Joe Haenn (sp?) would be glad to sell you some.You out there Joe??? > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > In this 'search' for a niche in this hobby, I can 'just buy' or attempt to > make some intelligent decisions? > Trying to do the latter, > I reviewed from back then, WHY S and Flyer/ > Smaller than O giving more layout per SF > Larger than HO giving a more massive size and more durability > Smoke and Choo choo > TWO rails thats TWO > Track that had ties spaced closer than LioneL > Seemed to be neater action accessories I couldnt afford > Great drive train motion on the Hudson > so > As I search for track, > WHY the &*(&!!xxx%%*(&*( doesnt anyone product a modern version of AF track? > So I can mate with whatever old Flyer stuff I have? > Closest I find is Gargraves sectional, in their wisdom they have used a 54" R > for switch radius not 42.... Killing the module..... AND they have > LOTS and LOTS of ties so it looks like overgrown HO flextrack. And its > height is half of Flyer (maybe for the roadbed which may nebber come.... > No I dont wanna jury rig solid brass to AF, or raised roadbed to AF, or > whatever. > Do I wanna stay with FLyer trak? Donnno. But why should I spend $100 or > more on new trak just to experiment?? > So in the spirit of Halloween- Boooooo! > or boo hoo? > > L. > (Cant get from there to here without a hassle...) > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5259	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Santa's toy and train show

Does anybody know of a Santa's toy and train show in the Chicago area that's at some college on either October 17th or November 21st? Any information would be greatly appreciated. =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5260	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Re: Why S ( & Flyer...) and track!

1) Gargraves height matches with roadbed under it. Mix 1 piece HO and 1 piece O cork roadbed, they're both the same height, for the correect width. Height will then match close enough. Can't nelp with radius. 2) K-Line is available as noted by Brad Rockwell. I dont think the rubber roadbed is made for the long straights, though I could be wrong. 3) Flyer track is available at modest cost, usually under someone's table at a train show, and can look pretty discouraging but still be functional with or often without cleaning. Ted Larson recommends cleaning rust off rails by rubbing with foil. I usually just use a bright boy or some other abrasive 'cause if it's rusty the plating is gone anyway. I find track cleaned this way stays non rusty on my layout for years, I think because of driver action and a little smoke fluid "gunk" that always seems to be present. Thus cleaning for electrical pickup need not involve abrasive action. LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > In this 'search' for a niche in this hobby, I can 'just buy' or attempt to > make some intelligent decisions? > Trying to do the latter, > I reviewed from back then, WHY S and Flyer/ > Smaller than O giving more layout per SF > Larger than HO giving a more massive size and more durability > Smoke and Choo choo > TWO rails thats TWO > Track that had ties spaced closer than LioneL > Seemed to be neater action accessories I couldnt afford > Great drive train motion on the Hudson > so > As I search for track, > WHY the &*(&!!xxx%%*(&*( doesnt anyone product a modern version of AF track? > So I can mate with whatever old Flyer stuff I have? > Closest I find is Gargraves sectional, in their wisdom they have used a 54" R > for switch radius not 42.... Killing the module..... AND they have > LOTS and LOTS of ties so it looks like overgrown HO flextrack. And its > height is half of Flyer (maybe for the roadbed which may nebber come.... > No I dont wanna jury rig solid brass to AF, or raised roadbed to AF, or > whatever. > Do I wanna stay with FLyer trak? Donnno. But why should I spend $100 or > more on new trak just to experiment?? > So in the spirit of Halloween- Boooooo! > or boo hoo? > > L. > (Cant get from there to here without a hassle...) > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5261	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Panoramic photos

A few weeks ago someone posted a URL (I think it lead to a Smithsonian Institution site) that had wonderful panaoramic photos of railroad scenes--and more. Since a hard disk crash here, I have been unable to locate the URL. Can someone point me in the right direction? Many thanks in advance. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5262	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: SUNSET MODELS LATEST VIEW

Scott Mann wrote: Dear Glenn, The Pioneer / Flying Yankee Zephyr train project is on hold until we can collect enough reservations to produce the project for the price advertised. We are sorry if this disappoints our customers, but the quantity of S gauge reservations was much less for this type of model than we anticipated. We had advertised for almost a year on the internet and through flyers pasted out at S gauge conventions. We spent a few thousand dollars advertising in CTT and S-Gaugian with lack luster results. We currently have 100 reservations and require 200-250 to produce this project. We do not accept deposits so there is no money involved by our potential customers at this point. We have received suggestions of doing the Zephyrs in plastic at a reduced cost and higher numbers. We will investigate this option if all else fails. We appreciate everyone's support in this and we are sorry to disappoint any of you. Your ideas on this are welcome. Best Regards, Scott Mann - Sunset Models.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5263	From: Richard	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail and Sunset Soap

Somehow I cant get that catchy show tag fom "Soap" (yes the one Billy Crystal used to be in) out of my head when I see posts for this mob. do..do.do....do.......dodo..du do........ Will Scott see the futility of it all and turn to religion?? Will Sunset ride off into the horse (think about it) Will Bobby realise that his evil step father(only cos he's possessed by the devil) give up his folly of playing with trains, turn and see the light and salvation in stamp collecting?? Will the Inez the house keeper nurse her secret love Billy Bob through his illness for all thing 1:64 and help him take up quilting? Will Father Ted turn away from his infatuation with that Flyer Girl and return to the one true spirit...drag racing...now to go shopping for that new dress Will HOmer Simpson make a surpise cameo (will HOmer Siimpson know whata a cameo is??) To find out about these and other events stay tuned to "Sunset Soap" Pacifc 7, Eastren 10...film at 11.. These guys are better than TV .:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5264	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Re: Chicago Hobby Show (RICTA)

Dear Andrew, We will be at the show and I think, the only "S" train only company to have a booth and display. If you get a chance, you can visit us at booth number 2432. We will have our 9' X 20' layout and many of our pre-production samples. I am hoping to have a sample of the 48 page 2000 catalog. I am not sure about dinner, as Robin will be along and the last thing she will want to talk about after the show is trains. It is a shame that for the second time, the St. Louis club picked the same weekend for the S-Fest as the RICTA show. Don T. Andy McBride wrote: > From: Andy McBride <amcbride@...> > > >From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > > >This should be the RICTER- MRIA show. This "THE" trade show of the year. > > > Hey S-folk, > > I'll be at this show for three days for work. Anybody else going be there > from the list? Perhaps we could get a group together for dinner? Anybody > intrested? > > Andrew McBride > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5265	From: James B. Miller	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: 'S' scale schoolbus

I don't know if this schoolbus has been mentioned on these mail lists before. If it has, sorry to waste your time. This past weekend, I was at the Great Scale Train Show in Timonium and encountered another S-scale schoolbus. A few years ago, there was a schoolbus imported from China - about 5" long with a 'pull back & release' drive. Although no scale/proportion was marked on the body of the bus, it appeared to be right-on when set aside of some 1:64 tractor trailer rigs. The only problems were that the windows were not wide enough, it was a bit short, and appeared somewhat toy-like. This newer bus appears to be an upgrade, with the same construction and drive. However this one is 6" long, with properly proportioned (height vs. width) windows, much better details, better lettering, and the red stop sign that swings out from the driver's position. It looks much less toy-like. The biggest flaws are the chromed wheels, the arm that holds the red stop sign, and the "operating" doors which have the typical poor fit. I think this newer bus looks pretty good, probably as scale-like as S-scale is likely to see. Those problems are really minor and could be categorized as someday fix-ups. I picked-up a couple at $3.50 each, that's less that I originally paid for the 5"busses. -- Jim Miller

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5266	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: switcher...not

Thanks again for all of your responses. I found it interesting no one mentioned or recommended ACG AF's 355 or 21801 as a switcher to pursue and use. I guess despite some claims on eBay, these really don't "run excellent".

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5267	From: Mark Preman	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

Hi Gang, The October list of original Gilbert American Flyer trains "For Sale" has been posted. As always, some new offerings and I starting to lower some prices on aging inventory. Turnover is better than dust collection! Preman's Law. Happy Hunting! Mark http://www.americanflyertrains.com =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5268	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Re: [Why S ( & Flyer...) and track!]

I use Gargraves flex track http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/track/gargraves.html Flex gives you the ability to build all kinds of concentric curves. Paul Yorke Model Trains / 3D Photography / Computer Support ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5269	From: cbrf@xxxx.xxx	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Bill Krause

Bill Krause: I know that there are some of you who have already been notified of the sad news that follows. This is for those of you who don't know. I'm sorry to have to tell all "S" Gaugers, model railroaders and people in general, that Monday evening, October 4, 1999 Past President of the CT "S" Gaugers, Bill Krause passed away. I personally have never met nor do I know anyone who had anything bad to say about Bill. He was truly "loved" by all the members of the CT. "S" Gaugers, an "S" club that Bill started the early 80's. If ever there was an ambassador for "S" gauge and model railroading in general, Bill was that person. Over two years ago, about the time he started his last "train ride", Bill handpicked 3 members of his beloved CT "S" Gauge club, to carry on what he started and loved most. Steve Kutash our Vice President, Craig O'Connell our secretary and myself as president. Having known Bill for so many years, we all knew that something was wrong, but true to form for Bill, he never let on. He always enjoyed "talking trains" and I constantly encouraged other railroaders to call him. He was associated with many " circuit letter " groups throughout the country. At the NASG convention in Pittsburgh in 1990, he was honored by winning the "Bernie Thomas" Award. I could go on about what this giant of a man accomplished throughout his life, but I know he's looking down at me from the cab of his favorite engine telling me not to embarrass him. That's how Bill was. That's how I'm going to remember him, never wanting to hurt anyone and very seldom taking credit for anything he accomplished or did for anyone else. Everyone who knew Bill will surly miss him. I know I will. He was a true friend to me and to all who ever met and knew him. I hope when I show up at the station for my last train ride, that Bill will stop and allow me to come aboard. My sympathies go out to his lovely wife Lois, his two daughters, Carol and Helen and their families. When Bill and I spoke so many times in the last two years, I'd always hear him say at the end of our conversation, "Be seeing you". I sure hope so Bill. Good Bye. Memorial donations can be sent to the Fairfield Grace Methodist Church Memorial Fund, 1089 Fairfield Woods Road, Fairfield, Ct. 06430.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5270	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Online Photos

Photos online http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/collections/finder.html Library of Congress Smithsonian http://photo2.si.edu/ Good set of links http://www.ncrtec.org/tools/picture/goodsite.htm -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5271	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Die-Cast Buses

I received the Lillian Vernon Christmas catalog today and on page 38 they advertise die-cast buses. They are described as being 2" tall and 5" long, that would be 12' tall and 30' long in S scale. One is a modern type school bus with a flip-out stop sign, the other two are models of the types of buses from the 1940's. One is painted as a municipal bus and the other is a tour bus. Check them out, the older buses really look neat. The set of three buses sells for $12.98. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5272	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Mfr. Status Inquiry

Did anyone visit with Fred Rouse at the St. Paul convention or has anyone heard from him since about the SSL&S reactivation. I sent an inquiry to his e-mail addr last week, no response yet.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5273	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: photo archive

Hey all you research types: I saw a notice in the business pages of the newspaper which said that the New York Daily News, in connection with another company, will shortly offer photos for sale from their archive; 50,000 photos if I remember correctly. The index will be searchable and prints can be ordered on the net. There have got to be some photos of the ACG Hall of Science and who knows what else in there. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5274	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Re: Mfr. Status Inquiry

I talked to Fred at the recent CJSS Fall gettogether. He had a table with over 50 SSL&S parts as well as a pilot AM 4-6-2 done by Frank Titman to show the SSL&S superdetail kit for it. He has also put together a catalog. When he answers you, you can probably request it from him. >From: ironhors@... > >Did anyone visit with Fred Rouse at the St. Paul convention or has >anyone heard from him since about the SSL&S reactivation. I sent an >inquiry to his e-mail addr last week, no response yet. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5275	From: M.McConnell	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Train Show in New Jersey

Just wanted to let everyone know our train club (the South Jersey S Gaugers) is sponsering our fourth train show in the South Jersey/Philadelphia area. The show will be held on Sunday, Oct 10 at the Bellmawr Fire and Rescue #1 hall located at 29 Lewis Ave in Bellmawr, NJ - which is just a minute ride east of the junction of RT 295 and Rt 168 (Black Horse Pike) on Rt 168. Bellmawr is about a 20 minute ride from center city Phila. The show will start at 10 am and runs until 3 pm. We have 80 tables sold so far, and we will also have our clubs layout on display. The admission price is $3.00. So far, our dealer list includes John & Robin Vanacore (AF trains) and Fred Jester (AF parts), Russ Downs (new S products), Chick's Hobby Center and other local hobby shops, plus dealers of a variety of other gauges, accessories, die cast and other railroad related items. Surprisingly, we have a large proportion of S dealers - not sure how that happened :) If you can stop by, be sure to look me up and say hello! Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5276	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: switchers

This discussion of switchers is quite interesting. In fact, we could have quite a good discussion about which AF locos are the best runners, and how the AM and SHS entries compare to them. The reason that Flyer Baldwins were not praised is that they usually don't run well. A few do, mostly 5 digit ones. These lucky few don't need much help. Most Baldwins overheat. There are very few windings on the Baldwin motor, and the design made it hard for child owners to lubricate. So the armature bearings are often found worn. Between the skimpy windings and the worn bearings that allow the armature to get too close to the field, the overheating problem is very common. The field, brushes, and even the armature may have been damaged by excess heat. The truck chassises are soft metal and can exhibit axle hole wear too. Some overheating Baldwins can be brought to operating condition by replacing the armature bearings and possibly the brush springs. Some require rewinding of the armature and field with more and different wire than the original design. This is A LOT of work. Tom Barker, in his book, recommends rewinding the field with #26 wire to cure the overheating problem. I tried this 2 or 3 times and never got it to work. I have two units in which I rewound the motors, and two that run well without rewinding. I can use all of them for delicate switching operations. The rewound ones are slightly slower, which helps. The ones with original windings tend to creep a bit, because the puny motor uses less juice than the reverse unit so it starts up before the rev unit cycles. But this can be overcome at the controls if you're used to it. That's why no one recommended the Baldwin as a switcher. It can happen but it might be a lot of work. They are also quite light and often start to slip when pulling more than 8 or so cars. And the pickup shoes tend to lift the truck off the track going thru switches, breaking electrical contact and cycling the reverse unit. However, it was my first Flyer loco, and I love 'em. They just involve a lot of work. At least mine do. The Baldwin is the topic of my next Roundhouse column in S Gaugian magazine. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5277	From: Brian Johns	Date: 10/5/1999
Subject: Macintosh access to Sunday Nite Chat

Joe and others: I figured it out last Sunday night with Paul's assistance. Unfortunately, I don't remember ALL that I had to do, but these instructions will give you a running start at it: Go to http://www.macdownload.com and search for "ircle." Download and unstuff it. Launch ircle. Select WINDOWS > Connections. Click the "Server" button. Click the "Add" button. Set the following: Server Name: irc.stealth.net Port: 6667 (the default) Network: Pick IRCNet from the pop-up list. You'll have to enter your name and email address, etc at some point. This is where my memory fails me. If you get it to work, write the rest of it down and share with the group! -=[ Brian ]=-

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5278	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Favorite Loco's

Fellow "S-ers" Tom Jarcho opened up an interesting line of discussion regarding favorite locos or maybe it should be best runners. I have a 321 Hudson that tops my list of best runners. Also have a 21085 pacific that is a real die hard puller, a 300AC that has the best slow speed of any steamer I've had. I also have a 472 Alco and a repainted two motor Alco. These run good and pull a lot, but as Tom mentioned about the Baldwins, they also do get hot rather quickly. Also have one of those SHS SW-9. Now there is a real swithcing dream!!! Great response, slow speed and wonderful pulling power. So I guess my list would go...321, SW-9, 300AC, 21085, 472, 470. A fellow club member has two Baldwins. One 3 digit and one 5 digit and there are noticible differences in their performance. The 5 digit is much smoother running, but the three digit is somewhat faster and really has a jack-rabbit starting voltage. Regard"S" Al Babbitt-Rocky Mtn. Hi-Railers-NASG Boise, ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5279	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Too much like Athearn?

Since AM is regarded as the S-scale equivalent of Athearn, right, wrong or indifferent, I found an amusing web site while surfing around and wanted to share it with the list. I hope AM doesn't ever get to this. http://hotrains.dc1.net/athearn.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5280	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: NEW Pennsy K-4 steamer

Whilst we've been going around and around :) whith the "maybe" Third rail Zephyr project.I've seen NO mention of the new American Models streamliner on the flip side of the same page in the S-guagian. Why is this? Seems to be the price everyone wants,looks pretty cool to me! Be carefull what we wish for,Someone might make it & expect us to buy them!!!! Brad

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5281	From: Bob Lester	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5282	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Re: NEW Pennsy K-4 steamer

In a message dated 10/6/99 7:00:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bradrock@... writes: << I've seen NO mention of the new American Models streamliner on the flip side of the same page in the S-guagian. Why is this? Seems to be the price everyone wants,looks pretty cool to me! >> I believe that there is a large color ad in the most current CTT - just avoid the last page :-)). RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5283	From: Bob Lester	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 392

unsubscribe S-Trains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5284	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Layout computer programs

How bout Autosketch? A full blown cad program at a mini price, $90 at CDW. One would simply create their track segments, be it straight or radiused (in case of modular track). Then use SNAP feature so U copy one segment and snap it onto the end of the other. Everything will stay in line in the X and Y coordinates, U will always know where U R on the layout, U can even designate one corner of the layout as 0,0 and your cursor/snaps will read out that location. Hence it can be easily found with tape measure, almost like GPS!!!!! and U can make a transparent overlay for your streets, or modules, or whatever. Any and all can be seen at one time, just turn off layers. Each layer can be different color, or objects colored and on and on and on I have used Autocad in the past so have some experience, the current autosketch is almost as powerful as ACAD of a few years ago. Stay Tuned. Just ordered mine, I M tired of dealing with parallel bar and tracing paper and trak on living room floor.... Will keep U all posted! L. (the map maker) Yaz there is a learning curve, one starts simple not with a 14 x 32 foot layout. How bout a circle, then an oval, then an oval with a small yard.... Like rebuilding an Atlantic, itsa challenge!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5285	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Re: NEW Pennsy K-4 steamer

Saw the picture on the inside cover of the Dispatch, I believe. Really impressive appearance, better than I expected! Despite the fact I want a small steam freight engine to spend my limited dollars on, this looks really great and might get me yet. The mechanism is the same as my present AM 4-6-2 but with rubber tires added so it's also bound to be a winner in the performance category. RBubeck327@... wrote: > > From: RBubeck327@... > > In a message dated 10/6/99 7:00:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > bradrock@... writes: > > << I've seen NO mention of the new American Models > streamliner on the flip side of the same page in the S-guagian. Why is > this? Seems to be the price everyone wants,looks pretty cool to > me! >> > > I believe that there is a large color ad in the most current CTT - just avoid > the last page :-)). > > RB > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5286	From: Richard	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: dept 56 ..name

all they say whats in a name!!...so whats withtheir name, am curious as to how Dept 56 got its name...is it a whole syore, or just a brand...excuse naievity please. cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5287	From: RRDART@aol.com	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: New list

At the risk of making everyone insane, I have developed a new list that you are all invited to join. My primary purpose in developing this list is so that issues that relate only to brass engines can be discussed. I have several open issues: What do you think is the best way to sell brass on the secondary market? In general how easy have you found it to sell? How much has the current price structure affected your willingness to buy brass? John Craft,

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5288	From: Richard	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: seen but not bought YET!!

Guy ('n'gals) Just got back from a little shopping expedition with the wife and daughter (boy's in school) my day off....always check out toy dept..cant always buy ,cos missus gets upset if I buy toys for me and not the kids,,,fail to understand <grin> Still , I digress. I have noticed for a while a brand name "Park Toys" made in you know where...seen them at several chains....they make amongst other things a range of construction stuff...all in 1:55 (damn ,but read on) , now this does represent a discrepancy of either 14 or 16% depending on math. Today I noticed two items that I will sneak back and get. item 1) A 50 ton mobile crane..not bad detail...with some hydraulics etc a very impressive heavy plant item could be had item 2) Container forklift...the container with the forklift looks nearly "S', well i suppose it would eh!! Referring to crane, as coincidence would have it, where Im presently consulting, they have, yep 50 ton mobile cranes, they also have drawings of the original spec, so I'll be photocopying those tomorrow and getting the tape measure out. Whilst the toy/model looks pretty good, it might better represent a slightly heavier 75/80 ton crane. With regard to the forklift, as there are no doubt different sizes of prototype , maybe this could be a newer , more capable (heavier lift) style. I'll scan in pix after i get them ...and they were very cheap $8 for crane, $6 for lifter..and that Aussie dollars!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5289	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Racing Champions on ebay

I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!! A Racing Champions black 51 Studebaker went on ebay tonight for $54.00. See ebay #173060328. These things are still available in Wal Mart for $3.95. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5290	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Athern and HO

Roy, I really enjoyed that web site about the difficulties a fella had with Athern HO. My experience with HO was pretty similar, although it involved more Life-Like than Athern. I bought my son two complete HO train sets and accessories. Neither train ever made it around its loop of track ONCE in its entire history. Couplers, trucks, wheels, track, accessories, were all extremely frustrating. Unless you glue that stuff down to a board, which was not possible in our apartment, it is useless. And I thought I was pretty good at this stuff, but was totally unable to assemble an Athern Diesel or get it to run. What's really sad is that I think this stuff happens to thousands of people every year. Not only is there a lack of high quality reliable starter sets in S and O, but the starter sets out there in HO have undoubtedly driven lots of families from the hobby.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5291	From: Michael Greene	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Re: Racing Champions on ebay

At 09:31 PM 10/06/1999 -0700, Alice S. Beachy wrote: >From: "Alice S. Beachy" <abeachy@...> > >I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!! > >A Racing Champions black 51 Studebaker went on ebay tonight for >$54.00. See ebay #173060328. These things are still available in Wal >Mart for $3.95. > >Wayne Beachy >Atlantic Coast S Gaugers I think I have a couple of these in stock -- if so, perhaps I'll offer them to the 2nd and 3rd highest bidders -- make a little extra for some more of Don's new cars or a K4 :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5292	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/6/1999
Subject: Re: Racing Champions on ebay

I saw that too!! There were two other cars on either side of it in the list, and they seemed to be at "normal" levels. Must be something about Studebaker?? BTW, can't find them out here, I keep looking!! The area buyers must be "kids" who can't relate to these era vehicles! I did catch two "Field & Stream" trucks at Target in Roseville Saturday after the train show though! Looks like a '40 Ford. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5293	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: NEW Pennsy K-4 steamer

Don't want to be a wet rag about it but, take a look in the lower right hand coner of ad's the photograph. It sez "photo of similar HO model." Now there is nothing wrong with this, it's better to show something tangible rather than a drawing or text...it's just disclosure. It's something that was missing from the B&O and Southern 4-6-2 ads of a couple of years ago, where Franklin Mint and Mantua models were used for illustration purposes. But, the AM Pacific runs great. I've had no problems with my scale version. I've pulled about 25 scale freight cars around my layout with no trouble. (OK...I've got reasonably level track, no grades) I know many HiRailers have complained about the Pacific's pulling power, and AM has addressed that. Anybody had any experience with AM's new traction tires? But, the steamline K4 is a neat chooch, and I'll probably pick up one for that reason alone. Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5294	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Death of S Ga pioneer, his philosophy, misc

Somehow this escaped the List folks, was on p 38 of the S Gaugian on the death of Ed Packard, founder of Cleveland Model and Suppy co. As an ex buckeye (a buckeye is some kind of a nut they say here in Meeeeeeechigan) I grew up with CM&S and with The Hobby House, Blum's hobby house as one S-Lister wrote a couple months ago. anyhoo I quote from the aforementioned article- Edward T Packard (aka Paschasa), 93, founder of CM&S, passed away in Feb in Westlake Ohio. Besides being the worlds oldest model aircraft manufacturer in continuous operation (begun in 1919) Cleveland Model Was The First To Offer S Scale Products in the United States under the trade name of C-D Models. "Besides a COMPREHENSIVE BEGINNERS LINE (caps mine), I planned for approximately 30 pieces of rolling stock which I reasoned could be made sufficiently well that the bodies could be put onto operating trucks. I further reasoned that COMMONLY KNOWN LOCOMOTIVES like the Pennsylvania switcher and one of the smaller lines, the Chicago Great Western 10 wheeler, might be the first two for operating equipment with detailed small parts to set the modeler's dreams alive", he once said. "I envisioned S gauge would be IN THE SPOT THAT HO IS ENJOYING TODAY, with hundreds of small manufacturers contributing above and beyond what I was turning out. I kept extremely low prices for the time". The last time the S Gaugian spoke with Packard, he still had a large inventory of parts for his S scale line. end of article. Said article accompanied by that pic of a pennsy switcher 060 for $16, the superstructure was made of wood turnings, the rest enhanced with brass and other castings. Is there a message here, i.e, for you budding engine makers, the up and coming LIONels of S????? Something about roots? Or the wizdom of an S pioneer? Simply food for thought. L. (the 'he dont need cad for a starter layout' guy)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5295	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Racing Champions on ebay

- Greeting`S' - Come on, gang. The great `S' automobiles of the A F heyday were not Saabs or Subarus. Cheer`S' Rhett Member: NASG Studebaker Drivers Club

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5296	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Flyer in Canada

The following item, which has just been published in Canadian S Scale Quarterly, may be of some interest to some S-Trains subscribers. It would be of great interest to me if anyone could supply more info. Joe Pereira -------------- Kits by Cleveland and models by Marx reached Canada before World War Two. But it was American Flyer, post-war, which established S scale in this country, and not just by shipping train sets over the border. A.C. Gilbert may have had three operations in Canada, at different times and places, and even had some Flyer equipment made here. This was all unknown to me until April of this year, when S Canada member Jim Thornton (Edmonton) bought an All Aboard set in its original box -- on which was printed A.C. Gilbert of Canada Ltd. Burlington, Ontario, Canada Bells rang. An S-Trains a few days earlier had recalled someone's memory of a Gilbert "factory" in Canada. So I started asking questions. Did Gilbert have a factory in Burlington? Did he buy a Canadian toy company, as rumored? I have a ginormous phone bill to prove that I have been trying to find out, but I still don't know. I did find out that Gilbert was quite Canada-conscious from the very beginning. As soon as he had launched two-rail American Flyer in S scale he appointed a Canadian distributor. This was the Menzies company, a Toronto hardware firm. A joint-venture company was formed: A.C. Gilbert-Menzies Co. Limited. What this company did or how long it existed I have not been able to discover, but Menzies was apparently Gilbert's Canadian distributor until the end. Menzies or no Manzies, however, sales in Canada posed a problem. Most of North America was served by household current alternating at 60 cycles, but Ontario Hydro still delivered 25-cycle current and was only just beginning a conversion program. That's why Flyer's Model 5A and 6A transformers, catalogued in 1946, were 25-cycle jobbies. S Canada member Guy Davis (Kakabeka Falls) has a Model 5A transformer which came from George's Trains, Toronto, in or about 1952. This was improved over the one catalogued in 1946 since it was rated at "25-60c(ycles)" and so was usable anywhere in Canada, even in those parts of Ontario where conversion was not completed until about 1953. The metal case is much larger than that of the Model 5A made in the United States, possibly to accomodate the wiring which made it possible to operate on either 25 or 60 cycles. The body of the label text reads: TRAIN TRANSFORMER with thermal circuit breaker Elora Industries Limited. Canadian Transformer Div. Elora Ont. Model 5A This was not a garden-variety transformer pressed into model-railway use. It was made expressly for American Flyer and expressly for the Canadian market. The label on the Davis transformer also includes "CSA APP No. 4599" -- the approval of the Canadian Standards Association. But there is no mention of Underwriters' Laboratories, whose seal is carried by electrical gear made in the United States. S Canada member Gary Marnoch (Pontypool) reports that a friend in Oshawa has another Model 5A made by Elora Industries, with labelling exactly as on the Davis transformer. This one was bought in Hamilton in 1955. S Canada member Peter King (Walkerton) also has a Flyer transformer which carries CSA approval but not that of Underwriters' Lab-oratories. This is a #1 1/2, which was catalogued in 1954 and 1955. So apparently Gilbert was still having transformers made in Canada in the mid 1950s, although not, it would seem, by Elora. The only two cars Gilbert ever produced with Canadian road names were the Canadian National reefer of 1958 and the Canadian Pacific flat car of 1959. If these were made primarily for the Canadian market, the timing might indicate a second foray into Canada. Regardless of that, these cars could not have been connected with the Burlington venture. The All Aboard sets were 1965-66 items and transformer No, 22033, the one in Thornton's set, was catalogued in 1965. My phone search has confirmed that during the period 1964-66 A.C. Gilbert of Canada Ltd. shared space with Munroe Games at 2422 Fairview St., Burlington. Thornton's transformer carries the CSA seal, for approval LR19931. But beside it is the UL seal, covering approval E31167. So this one was probably made in the U.S. Nonetheless it could be significant that No. 22033 was one of only two Flyer transformers with metal cases made after 1952, and one of only two 25-watt transformers added to the catalogue after 1956. (The box, made in Burlington by Hendershot Paper Products, urged "Buy Canadian," even though most of its contents were made in the United States -- and some, believe it or not, in Portugal!). I have found no indication that Gilbert bought either Elora Industries or Munroe Games, or ever owned a Canadian factory, but, the persistence of rumors is quite understandable. And I have yet found no trace of the earlier or later career of J.C. Downey, who was listed as president of Gilbert Canada in 1965. Meanwhile if you have a Flyer transformer made in Elora, you have a collector's item. email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5297	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Too much like Athearn?

--- Roy Hoffman <rhoffman@...> wrote: > Since AM is regarded as the S-scale equivalent of Athearn, right, > wrong or indifferent, I found an amusing web site while surfing > around and wanted to share it with the list. I hope AM doesn't ever > get to this. > > http://hotrains.dc1.net/athearn.htm > Be sure to follow the link on this page back to his home page where you can get to all his complaints about the other companies. They are both amusing and tragic. I wish he'd learn how to spell the word "know", however. =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5298	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Racing Champions on ebay

Rhett & all, Um, I hope my posting wasn't construed to be slighting Studebaker--Studebaker was one of the far-thinking automobile manufactures, and rather classy design groups. It has been said that while the other car companies could have a team of designers working on a door handle, Studebaker had one, and it was only a part-time project for him! They could do more with less, look at the Avanti, Golden Hawk, for some of their last great tries. Just as AF should have survived, so should have Studebaker. Just being good wasn't/isn't enough, I guess. I am still amazed at the price that die-cast model sold for! Wonder what other gems I have in my "cars for the layout" box? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5299	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Starter Set Stuff

I was pondering my recent train show purchases, one of which is a Marx PFE Fruit express boxcar, 43461 That came with some other "junk"--I think the guy threw it in. Anyway, this car is S width, a tad longer than AF boxes, and a bit taller. Now I don't know if it fits any S protoytpe, but it's not that bad looking and with AF trucks under it, would look fine with other AF cars. I've already done this to the Marx Santa Fe cattle car, and it runs and looks fine. OK, where am I going? Well, as far as I know, K-Line owns the old Marx molds........Need I say more?? What would it take for them to make some cars and put AF trucks under them (I'm sure they could get a great volume discount from whomever is making the repros--not the L ones!). Seems like an easy entry into the S marketplace, and how far behind could a starter set be? (After all, they already make the track!) Maybe a write-in campaign would help?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5300	From: Richard	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Starter Set Stuff

David and gang > <snip> > OK, where am I going? Well, as far as I know, K-Line owns the old Marx > molds........Need I say more?? What would it take for them to make some cars > and put AF trucks under them <snip> Whilst it would seem a marvelous idea, and great if it were to ever get going...the trouble here is nearly the same as with Lionel, though K-Line i belive have diferrent attitudes. There seems to be amongst "O" manufacturers a little bit of a frenzy at the moment..that scale is kicking goals, though interstingly enough listening (cant help myself) to the "O" lists they are experiencing exactly the same dilemmas as we are, though they probably have double the product, they're lucky and dont realise it!!Back to point, the "O" oreinted companies are just that"O" orientated, they have a battle royal on their hands amongst themselves for market share. What "S" needs is a company with no great "O" investmest to take a look at "S". But hey, if there are molds around that couls see trains running quickly, then al power to them. I have to ask the question, if you are thinking in terms of a starter set, for whom??...Sales success is not going to be had by boxing up history and serving it to kids,it must be relevent to them, otherwise they wont spend their money. Now anyone who has looked into marketing and sales figures will tell you the disposable income of teens in America is "CONSIDERABLE"...and makes mince- meat of the money we in "S" scale spend at the moment. Dont get me wrong David ... understand your idea...dont mean to tread on it....but the future of "S" scale lies not from within, but from without!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5301	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Starter Set Stuff

Hmm, already some neat ideas going (appointment cancelled, so here I am "playing trains" instead of writing billings or proposals...oh well, oh yeah, I could be writing my thesis too. oh well.....). Starter set for whom? Well, I was thinking of all the little kids watching "Shining Time Station" who bug their parents for a train set. The computer interfaces, etc. can wait until later! Let's just get some activity going!! O manufacturers are in a "mind set" well, OK, maybe--just maybe--we can pool together, have them mold us some bodies and build our own RTR cars (will require floors, trucks, painting, lettering.....) I dunno, middle of the day, too much to do, and I'm here typing nonsense. More Meds, please! S' David D. Couldn't hurt to ask them though, could it? Huh? Please? I'll never ask for another thing, dad! I'll wash the car even!! (isn't running a hose over it washing?)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5302	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Wayne Can't Believe It!

Wayne Beachy wrote: >I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!! >A Racing Champions black 51 Studebaker went on ebay tonight for $54.00. See ebay >#173060328. These things are still available in Wal Mart for $3.95. I went there but e-Bay has already pulled the file off (odd, sold items usually kick around for a few days,) However, there is another one: "Die Cast 1951 Studebaker for 'S' Gauge (Item #173903470)" It even says "S" Gauge! This is the South bend, Indiana police car. Seller has clearly marked the cost of shipping it to you: "New in the box "S" gauge 1951 Studebaker police car. by Racing Champions $3.20 shipping" , which means you will pay the retail price of the car just for mailing the box! The current bid is $7.50. You must go $8.00, but, hey, there's no reserve!!! The seller, thfxr@... has a bunch of auctions going, mostly of HO trains and die-cast cars. He starts his cars at $7.50. From what I have seen, they are all available pieces: Die Cast 1951 Studebaker for "S" Gauge Die Cast 1956 Ford Pickup for "O" Gauge Die Cast 1960 Chevy Corvair for "S" Gauge 1959 Chevy El Camino for "O" Gauge Layouts ($12) 1932 Ford for "O" Gauge Layouts 1949 Mercury for "O" Gauge Layouts TWO Die Cast Corvettes for "S" Gauge Layouts Go to: http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=thfxr if you want to beat yourself up some more! :-) Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5303	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: TurboCad Software

This is a highly rated cad program. With a free trial option. http://www.solutioncity.com/tc_detail.php3 http://www.emxs.com/emxs981.htm -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5304	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Dept.56

Richard Snook wrote: >I am curious as to how Dept 56 got its name...is it a whole store, or just a brand? A large retailer named Bachmann's (not the toy train manufacturer), based in Eden Prairie, Minn., started it's own particular line of collectibles and ornaments, mostly in a Christmas theme. The number assigned to the department of the store which would handle this line was 56. Later, (don't ask me about the politics involved), the managers and employees of that department branched off into a separate business and called it Department 56. To this day, first edition items are displayed first at the Bachmann home store. For more, go to: http://www.department56.com/ Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5305	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Too much like Athearn?

I followed your suggestion and went back to his web site and boy does he have a list of complaints. So I did the natural thing. I sent him an email suggesting that he try S-scale. I wonder if he'll reply. -->Be sure to follow the link on this page back to his home page where you >can get to all his complaints about the other companies. They are both >amusing and tragic. I wish he'd learn how to spell the word "know", however. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5306	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re-inventing the wheel

LARSPAINTR@... wrote: >How bout Autosketch?A full blown cad program at a mini price, $90 at CDW. >One would simply create their track segments, be it straight or radiused (in >case of modular track). Then use SNAP feature so U copy one segment and snap it onto the end >of the other. . . . Just ordered mine, I M tired of dealing with parallel bar and tracing paper >and trak on living room floor....Will keep U all posted!L.(the map maker) Lars, I'll bet you sailed with Lewis and Clark! Who cares about that cancelled brass streamliner; you're our Pioneer! Are you aware of RRTrack? Software for about the same money but DESIGNED for toy trains with a library of all known s-gauge track and all those snap features and all the Flyer accessories with scale base sizes and even a 3-D feature so you can build the ground plan then fly through the layout for a look-see. Go to http://www.rrtrack.com/rrtrack Click on the S-Gauge library. Have a ball! 2-2 GO!!! CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5307	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Athern

What was the url for that site with the Athern complaints? I seem to have deleted it and my server can't find Onelist and the archives while all the kids are clogging up the net. Thanks, Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5308	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Why S ( & Flyer...) and track!

Seems excessive to me to have to clean track every week. Are you running smoking engines? I believe the slight oil residue that somehow forms on the tracks helps keep the oxidation down. You can tell if it's there if wiping clean looking track with a clean rag produces black streaks on the rag. Now the tricky part- a little is good but too much requires cleaning. I have few conductivity problems and rarely have to clean wheels. Many of my engines don't have pulmor so some driver slippage occurs which helps keep rails clean. If you really want to keep track from oxidizing then you need to use SHS which I think is nickel silver, and will have switches soon. AM which is brass and rarely needs cleaning, and switches are available. Gargraves and Gargraves switches seem to hold up well vis-a-vis cleaning on my layout. Can't tell whether new K-Line is good but it probably is no better than original Flyer, which as a kid needed cleaning during the first week or so that I owned it. I ran engines without smoke in those days. After switching to engines with smoke I never experienced the same problem level. A special note on Flyer switches. The cast frogs are always going to be a little more prone to gunking up nad I occasionalluy have to shine mine up, but only occasionally. Are your tracks in an especially humid environment? I have some track that got wet and rusty and needed cleaning but after behaved as well as the rest of my track. If you have cleaned the finish off the railheads then the only solution is clean all the time or let the rails have a protective coat of oil. A drop every 8' or so is all that's needed. Another factor is the old circa 1946 brass wheels were very sensitive to cleanliness. Newer bronze colored wheels are much better. Don't know exactly what you mean by how to hook up accessories. I have an old AF booklet that shows how to hook up many of them. If you have a specific one or two in mind just ask and I can tell you what the hook up is. "Nerker, Robert" wrote: > > Chuck, im just getting back into setting up my AF trains after being away > from them for 30+ years. So im trying to find some answers to questions > that I didnt even think of as a boy. YOu touched upon one of the track > questions: > I have to clean my track at least once a week or it oxidizes like hell. I > see a lot of talk in this note file about different kinds of track. I > realize a lot of them go to different track because of scale, but do others > go to them because of "less" cleaning, better performance? > Do these manufactures have switches and how do you hook up your accessories? > Any information or your thoughts on using different tracks or the problems > one might be getting into would be appreciated.. > -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5309	From: John Simkovich	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Lionel/American Flyer

Hi Gang, Just got done reading the Classic Toy Trains Magazine, did anyone happen to see the artical on Lionel??? Says there that they may start making American Flyer again in the future. That would be really nice wouldn't it?? Maybe it would be worth it to get enough emails to the company president, that may help to push it along???

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5310	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: The joy of track, HO & S

I love my S gauge in Flyer and AM but I do have some O and HO. I buy a few things in HO only because I can get Rock Island in the late Rock blue. If I could find Rock in S, well... Same with Milwaukee Road. But what I was writing about was that Atlas sells a track similar to S-Helpers track with ready-made roadbed. In terms of manufacturers, I have had no problem with Athearn and Accurail makes a nice auto carrier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5311	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Re: Racing Champions on ebay

As a multi decade member of the Studebaker drivers Club I am glad that these manufacturers are producing S scale Studes but... I was in Target a month or two ago and they had a dozen 51 Studes albeit gray for 3.95 What did old P.T. Barnam say... Jeff Tangeman At 09:31 PM 10/6/99 -0700, you wrote: >From: "Alice S. Beachy" <abeachy@...> > >I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!! > >A Racing Champions black 51 Studebaker went on ebay tonight for $54.00. See ebay #173060328. These things are still available in Wal Mart for $3.95. > >Wayne Beachy >Atlantic Coast S Gaugers > > >[Attachments have been removed from this message] > >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5312	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/7/1999
Subject: Lionel

I would like to say that just as I do not look to Walthers' and Kalmbach for S gauge leadership, I do not look to LTI either. American Flyer does not seem very important to them, no matter what we have tried to do to stimulate their interest. I see no reason why this should change. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5313	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: ebay-Studebaker

I was thinking some more about the $54 die cast Studebaker. I would love to write the seller in a couple of weeks and see if the buyer ever really paid for the model. I have sold a limited number of items on ebay and had two buyers not pay up. One never even contacted me. I checked his bid history and out of about a dozen plus transactions he had reneged on almost half. Oh well, I guess the chances one takes on ebay. New topic. I will be working with Joe Haenn (Joe's Trains Repair) at York again next week. Stop by and say Hi if you are there. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5314	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Athern

Tom, Here it is again. He answered my email and said that he wasn't interested in S-scale. One of the reasons he cited was that he was operating in a 6 X 12 foot area. I was thinking that that was a lot of complaining for such a small layout. Maybe we are better off without him. Roy http://hotrains.dc1.net/athearn.htm >From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > >What was the url for that site with the Athern complaints? I seem to have >deleted it and my server can't find Onelist and the archives while all the >kids are clogging up the net. Thanks, Tom Jarcho >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5315	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Digest 395 Potpouri

Hi Gang, Some musings on Digest 395: Ed Packard; A man before his time. Sought out the generic and made it afforable. Do you suppose some else would have thought to use 3/16" as a modeling scale? Maybe, maybe not. > I further reasoned that COMMONLY KNOWN LOCOMOTIVES like the > Pennsylvania switcher and one of the smaller lines, the Chicago Great > Western 10 wheeler, might be the first two for operating equipment > with detailed small parts to set the modeler's dreams alive", > he once said. > "I envisioned S gauge would be IN THE SPOT THAT HO IS ENJOYING TODAY, > with hundreds of small manufacturers contributing above and beyond > what I was turning out. I kept extremely low prices for the time". --Ed Packard At least part of his vision is coming to pass. While not in the position to usurp HO's throne, it's today's small manufactures that are growing "S" Gauge. I have a Cleveland CGW 4-6-0 once owned by Tom Coughlin. Although a little road-weary from its years of service on Tom's railroad, it still runs fine, and can be placed next to today's brass locomotives with no apologies. Marx 027 to S: A few years ago, the various S-Fest commities offered some K-Line 027(ex-Marx) as Fest cars. Perhaps one of the commiteemen could straight me out, but it appears that these cars were not as well received as the previous reworked flyer offerings. The same appeared to be true for warmed-over 027 conversions from Lionel. Track: In my limited experience with the Flyer end of "S", American Models and S-Helper Service's track gooks up less than Flyer or K-Line Track. Either the Centerline or Aztec track cleaning car will help to keep the gook down to a minimum. I'm partial to the Centerline car myself. Our Athearn Buddy: Well, he's entitled to his opinion, but it seems most of his problems are easily correctable. As for his dummy locomotive in a powered loco box, I suspect that some unscrupulous person walked out of that store with a powered locomotive in a dummy loco box. (A dishonest model railroader? HEAVENS TO BETSY!) For a short time I worked at a hobby shop, and we would verify the contents of the box at the check out counter. We also test-ran locomotives before purchase. We even caught on person thowing a pack of Kadee's into the box. I suspect our Athearn Buddy isn't satisfied with anything he buys. Besides, I hear tell that even Lionel has some quality problems occasionally. Whoops! The soapbox is getting shakey! Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5316	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: CAD for trainz

Thanx for the suggestions. Have not checked out the sites since Autosketch is already on its way. Others have asked in the past bout train programs, sites might help others! My experience with demo programs was they were not full featured or could not save anything. So lately I dont bother, but count on the reviews best I can! And experience with ACAD. L. (the ' I wanna 2000 layout for $200 ' guy? )

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5317	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: ebay-Studebaker

Hey Wayne, If Joe's out buying stuff, do we get a dicount??? ;-) Wish I could be there just to see this meet. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5318	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Lionel/American Flyer

I sent my request to Dick Maddox a few weeks ago and still have not heard back from him. I hope you are talking to him too. His address is Dick Maddox <talktous@...> Staying on NASG track, Glenn Message: 17 Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 22:16:56 -0400 From: "John Simkovich" <jps2102@...> Subject: Lionel/American Flyer Hi Gang, Just got done reading the Classic Toy Trains Magazine, did anyone happen to see the artical on Lionel??? Says there that they may start making American Flyer again in the future. That would be really nice wouldn't it?? Maybe it would be worth it to get enough emails to the company president, that may help to push it along???

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5319	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel

My point of view. As much as I love my Gilbert American Flyer collection and operating layout, Gilbert has not been in business since 1966 and Lionel went out of business soon after. Wellspring or LTI happens to own all patents and copywrites that Gilbert produced. Therein lies the glitch. Lionel will not give up those copywrites and allow Flyer to compete with them again so up comes MTH, K-Line, Williams, Weaver, Atlas and dozens of other "O". Seems Lionel's competition is not us as they think. So if LTI goes under you could buy up the Gilbert copywrites at the bankruptcy sale. I would rather see a new S gauge or scale company making a full line on two rail track. Hey that's American Models and S-Helper. Now if they had an inexpensive starter set we could get to the public domain then we could let Gilbert items fade into history. A dealer recently told me that Lionel only has about 20% of the O gauge market today. They may be history soon too. Staying on NASG track, Glenn Message: 20 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:17:32 -0400 (EDT) From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) Subject: Lionel I would like to say that just as I do not look to Walthers' and Kalmbach for S gauge leadership, I do not look to LTI either. American Flyer does not seem very important to them, no matter what we have tried to do to stimulate their interest. I see no reason why this should change. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5320	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Wayne Can't Believe It!

> I went there but e-Bay has already pulled the file off. It's still there: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=173060328 But how about this one? It's also a racing champions and it sold for $102.50! Die Cast 1950 Oldsmobile 88 for "S" Gauge Item #169958546 Is anybody thinking what I'm thinking? =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5321	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel

In a message dated 10/8/99 1:47:03 PM, gartrain@... writes: << Hey that's American Models and S-Helper. Now if they had an inexpensive starter set we could get to the public domain then we could let Gilbert items fade into history. >> True. In expensive starter sets are very much needed. Unfortunately, much of the current AM and SHS line is unsuitable for this. Most of it is too fragile to give to a seven year old to play with. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5322	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel

Seems like we had a starter set in S, namely the Ertl set. Whatever happened to it? RBubeck327@... wrote: > > From: RBubeck327@... > > In a message dated 10/8/99 1:47:03 PM, gartrain@... writes: > > << Hey that's American Models and S-Helper. Now if they had an inexpensive > starter set we could get to the public domain then we could let Gilbert items > fade into > history. >> > > True. In expensive starter sets are very much needed. Unfortunately, much > of the current AM and SHS line is unsuitable for this. Most of it is too > fragile to give to a seven year old to play with. > > RB > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5323	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Locomotive Test, AM Pacific and SHS SW-9

The engineering department of the Maryland Central Railroad conducted the following test this date. A loop of AM code 148 track with a circle 27"R and four feet of straight on either side, set up on a flat platform. Power supplied by a Chicago Model Int'l. #156 Super Blue power pack. A train consisting of 16 SHS freight cars, 10 AM freight cars, two PRS 40' cars and a AF 638 caboose(converted to SHS trucks and couplers), a total of 29 cars. When the AM Pacific was coupled up to the train the distance from the rear of the caboose to the front of the engine was less then 2". When power was applied the Pacific walked away with the train with the same ease that it pulls it's five car passenger set. At top speed it flew around the loop of track, outstanding performance. After removing the Pacific a SHS SW-9 was coupled to the same train and when power was applied it too walked away as easy as could be. Although the top speed of The SW-9 is lower then the AM Pacific it too sailed around the loop of track. Again, outstanding! I believe if a longer run were availabe that both locos could have pulled at least 50 or more cars. The results makes one wonder why some complaints have been made about the pulling power of these locos. How many cars would a full size Pacific or SW-9 be expected to pull? Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5324	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel

In a message dated 10/8/99 4:35:10 PM, cesmith@... writes: << Seems like we had a starter set in S, namely the Ertl set. Whatever happened to it? >> It's still around, but it is of modest quality. The Ertl set is a reasonable toy in the sense that wind up sets were cheap fun when we were kids, but such a set is not likely to jump start the market for a whole gauge. A lot of the youngsters that I know who have an interest in electric toy trains think that MTH is 'way cool' - take it for what it is worth. RB RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5325	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: HiRail Survey

Richard and 'S'ers, I posed the posted survey questions to our attending members at the last club meeting. The results are shown below (total of 5 people...we're small, but enthusiastic!). I have posted this info to the entire list on the chance that others besides Richard may be interested. 1. Detail level - Most members felt that the details they would like to see on a given model would depend on the prototype being modeled. 2. Prototype fidelity - Is not critical as long as the model could be modified to other specific prototypes of interest, but accurate general proportions of the model should be true to the prototype. 3. Nonprototypical paint schemes - That is acceptable. 4. Desirable road names - ATSF, CBQ, CNW, C&O, GMO, IC, MoP, NH, NS, SP, SR, UP. 5. Bells and whistles - No. However, steam locos should have "smoke and choo-choo" or equivalent features. 6. Limited editions - Yes, definitely interested. 7. B truck locos (diesel or electric) wanted - 44-tonner, 20-tonner, "doodlebug", Dash8-40B, B23-7 (or almost any U boat). Well, that's it. I hope it's of some value to potential manufacturers out there. 'S'incerely, Jay Mellon Crescent City S Gaugers New Orleans, LA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5326	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: new locos

There is always a lot of talk on S-list about new products we'd like to see, especially locos. I would like to see a U-25B myself. But I would not buy it unless it had an electromagnetic (old fashioned) reverse unit and ran on 7-20 VAC. I am simply not interested in buying or building an engine with a solid state(electronic) reverse unit. I don't trust them and I can't work on them (much). It has been assumed by those who have made S gauge locos that electronic reverse units are either an acceptable substitute for or an improvement upon Gilbert type units. I do not share that assumption. 1. Many are vulnerable to the power surges that occur in AC operation, which do not bother solenoid based reverse units. I understand SHS has made some progress in overcoming this fault. That's good, because there are a lot of recently made S gauge locos that need to have their solid state reverse units replaced. or will soon. 2. I seriously doubt these units will be working at the age of 50 the way Gilbert's do. I also do not consider that the use of low voltage can motors that respond to much less electricity than Gilbert locos, is acceptable. If an engine moves when it's supposed to be standing still, how can you operate it? It would be acceptable to have room in the loco body for a reverse unit which I could install myself to replace an electronic one. But that circuit board stuff is OUT. This is just my personal prejudice. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5327	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: AF Survey

Rich and 'S'ers, As with the previous hirail survey, I conducted the posted AF survey at our last club meeting. Here are the results: HYPOTHESIS - What if Lionel were to produce AF again? 1. Pro or con. They were "cool with it". 2. Production of similar or same items as MPC and LTI - Absolutely not! That market is saturated; would rather have original ACG in such a circumstance. 3. Re-release of ACG accessories - good idea! Some suggestions: coal loader, magnetic crane, talking station (both sizes), drum loader. 4. New stuff? Excellent idea! Not rehashes. 5. More scale detail - Good. 6. Development of new diesel drive mechanism - Yes. Definitely a good idea. 7. Fair retail price: a. diesels - $200 b. steam - $250 to $350 c. freight c. - $40 d. passenger c. - $50 to $100 8. AF Identity - Doesn't matter as long as the quality is good and the price is fair. That's it. Here is some additional input. There was a strong interest expressed in the availability of a "small" hirail steam loco (e.g.. 0-4-0;0-6-0;2-6-0). Also, there was a strong consensus regarding the need for a S starter set which can withstand rough play by children and which is readily available to interested buyers without "hobbyist knowledge". Cheers. Jay Mellon Crescent City S Gaugers New Orleans, LA P.S. I suspect that the chances of the proposed hypothesis becoming reality are rather remote.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5328	From: JSBMLB@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel

Yea Glenn!!! Nothing would make me happier than to see Lionel die. Someone interested in S gauge would then buy AF, maybe. Your right!!!!!! S HELPER.... and AM They already exist. We don't need Lionel.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5329	From: Jeffrey Madden	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel

>From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> >To: RBubeck327@... >CC: gartrain@..., s-trains@onelist.com >Subject: Re: [S-Trains] re: Lionel >Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 16:31:18 -0400 > >Seems like we had a starter set in S, namely the Ertl set. Whatever >happened to it? > >RBubeck327@... wrote: > > > > From: RBubeck327@... > > > > In a message dated 10/8/99 1:47:03 PM, gartrain@... writes: > > > > << Hey that's American Models and S-Helper. Now if they had an >inexpensive > > starter set we could get to the public domain then we could let Gilbert >items > > fade into > > history. >> > > > > True. In expensive starter sets are very much needed. Unfortunately, >much > > of the current AM and SHS line is unsuitable for this. Most of it is >too > > fragile to give to a seven year old to play with. > > > > RB > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >-- >Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) >and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > >"It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool >than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm ><< text3.html >> Ah, this begs the question. Do we want a starter set for incoming adult S gaugers or 7 to 14 year-old kids? Model Railroading has really evolved from the early 50s to mostly an adult oriented hobby, including the tinplate and collecting side. I doubt whether a mass audience of adults and kids can again be created, even though many of us would wish it so. On one side, a starter set would have a basic small loco, a couple of freight cars, some track and maybe a power supply. To be able to produce a set capable of some rough handling, only Flyer type cars and a basic Flyer loco would fit the bill - from old dies. I doubt if anybody would invest in new product for a hopeful mass market. The other side, is a starter set aimed at older kids and adults that would be more realistic, scale or hi-rail, and yes, would be more fragile. Again, Bachmann's On2 freight and passenger sets come to mind. Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5330	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, October 10, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5331	From: Richard	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Ahh...the right questions at last!!

To the exalted all No disrepsect to any but at last more thana couple are asking (IMHO)..well opinion , not always humble.....the right questions.....from these question...guess what come the answers...but be warned...you have to throw away preconcieved biases and personal expectations. Want to know what will work as a starter set...think hard here...why are we asking ourselves...are we starters..NO...who would be starters...those not in the Hobby....so go ask them!! We are vantaged to interpolate these answers into an approximation of what is then feasible. If CAr manufacturer "X" wants to know whatthe public want...who they gunna call?? Not the design department, not the sales dept -though both areas may input later- not the marketing dept , they wouldn't hear the question!! Not finance, no one has ever quite figured out if they think at all!! They go ask Joe and Mary, Brad, Rosie...you know the Publics!! The answer is relativley simple...the truth is out there!! seriously out THERE...not in here cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5332	From: Richard	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Dispatch??

Is the latest Dispatch out .....think I missed the deadline with my fees, luckky Ipaid foa couple of years this time.. Damn missed it!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5333	From: Strailway@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: ERTL

Hi; Due to medical reasons I have to quit modeling. I have 2 ERTL cow town sets, 1 ERTL farm town set and 1 ERTL barn and silo set. I would like to sell them for 30.00 each including shipping and handling. You can contact me at ---- willlarue@... Thank You Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5334	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/8/1999
Subject: Re: Pikemaster switches

Hey gang, I need several pair of Pikemaster remote switches for a new layout. Can anybody out there help out?? Thanks in advance Steve Blackburn..TCA, NASG, RMHR Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5335	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Starter sets

Hello fellow "S"ers, Recently,I have been taking s-gaugian and classic toy trains to work with me. I work for Delphi Harrison Thermal hear in Dayton. One of the guys I work with, 30 years old, one son and one daughter, 10 and 7, saw the magazines and started looking at the pics and asking questions. Whats better? The answer of course was s-gauge. Why? Size, 2 rails ,smoke and choo choo! Chew what? Chug ,chug, chug I told him. I then showed him some pics of my christmas layout. Cool! I want one! How much and where can I buy one? Under 150.00 I told him. Let me make a call and we can go visit a friend who has some for sale and you can see them run. So off to my friends house we go with his two kids in tow. John had a 302 with smoke and choo choo, a couple of gondolas, shell tank car, coal hopper, caboose,etc. to choose from. He threw in an oval of good looking flyer track and I had a small starter transformer to sell him for 5.00. Total cost of starter set was 120.00.Let's run some trains on the layout kids. BINGO! Hook. Line and sinker. Let's go home and set our trains up dad!!!!!!! That is what we need for a starter kit for the newbies to s-gauge trains! No more and no less! I wish everyone on this list could have seen the looks on these kids faces. The little boys best remark to me was," This is neater than the train grandpa bought me!" I asked his dad what it was and he told me it was a cheap HO set that his dad paid for one chritmas ,but it broke! Enough said by me. I'm still smiling a week later! Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5336	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel

Seems like they made about 5,000 ERTL battery powered sets. It took about 4 years and many price reductions to sell some of them. Scenery Unlimited still has some for sale. Trouble with battery sets is you can't add to them or develop them into a layout unless you kitbash the parts like Richard Snook may do, if he gets them back from his kids. Glenn Chuck Smith wrote: Seems like we had a starter set in S, namely the Ertl set. Whatever happened to it? RBubeck327@... wrote: > > From: RBubeck327@... > > In a message dated 10/8/99 1:47:03 PM, gartrain@... writes: > > << Hey that's American Models and S-Helper. Now if they had an inexpensive > starter set we could get to the public domain then we could let Gilbert items > fade into > history. >> > > True. In expensive starter sets are very much needed. Unfortunately, much > of the current AM and SHS line is unsuitable for this. Most of it is too > fragile to give to a seven year old to play with. > > RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5337	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Re: Ertl sets, was, re: Lionel

I would guesstimate the quantities more like 50,000 as the local stores here had at least a dozen of them. Considering there isn't even a hobby shop around here, that tells me they made gobs of them. There are two in my house, even (well, after Christmas they were $13 each!). Some problems with this set: 1)battery operated, no "remote control" of the engine to really utilize the switch and siding included. 2) really cheaply made, although could have easily been done a little better. 3) required a lot of assembly by the user--I suspect small kids never got it together properly. 4) No other stuff followed, like more track, other cars, etc. to keep interest up, it was a "dead end" sale. I had assumed that Ertl was going to follow up with more interactive stuff to go along with their "Farm Country" stuff, but it seems to be just an orphan product. A "let's try this and see what happens" thing. Interestingly there was a flyer from Scenery Unlimited inside the sets. And the cars appeared to be very close to AF patterns. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5338	From: Don Abrams	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Cow-on-Track Tip

Wow! A cow tipping tip? Sorry couldn't resist. Just finished a Cow-on-Track repair and thought I'd pass this on in case it hasn't been covered before. Seems the cow would extend out over the track quite readily, but hesitate or completely stall on the return. When out over the track the solenoid plunger would extend out the end of the double coil about 1/8", therefore there was less mass for the coil at the other end to exert a pull on, hence the stall. I put a piece of thick double stick foam tape on the front of the underside of the "pasture" where the segmented gear would stop it's forward travel. I left the paper on the side of the tape where the gear would touch. Now the plunger stops exactly at the end of the coil and "bossy" doesn't hesitate to return to pasture. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5339	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Re: Locomotive Test, AM Pacific and SHS SW-9

Rance, Yes, grade that are to steep may cause some problems. AM has come out with a pull-more type wheel for the Pacific(I saw it on display at AM's table at the Spring Spree). On the new run of Pacifics, the K-4 and I would assume on the standard Pacific, they will be equipped with this new pull-more feature which will really increase the pulling power and make steep grades less of a problem. When I was operating AF steam locos I preferred the pre pull-more link coupler equipped type. The idea of steel wheels on steel rail has a certain appeal and there is not any rubber tyre to wear out and be replaced. I have built all of my layout without grades for better operations and I never had a layout big enough to try and haul a 40 car train. In fact when I was operating Flyer I did not have 40 cars! The new AM pull-more type wheel is available for replacement if you have one of the earlier Pacifics. Thanks for the feedback. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5340	From: Amerflyr@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 396

Greetings all! Get your new 2000 Greenberg S Gauge Pocket Price Guide yet? Notice the O Gauge Royal Blue on the cover? (Hint: Look at the wheels -- Notice no plastic insulator? How about the third rail pickup you can see underneath?) I think this is a pretty funny screw-up! The inside cover even gives photo credits to the submitter, and notes that it is a 350. Let me know what you guys think! See you at York! Chuck

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5341	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 396

In a message dated 10/9/99 4:16:15 PM, Amerflyr@... writes: << Get your new 2000 Greenberg S Gauge Pocket Price Guide yet? Notice the O Gauge Royal Blue on the cover? (Hint: Look at the wheels -- Notice no plastic insulator? How about the third rail pickup you can see underneath?) I think this is a pretty funny screw-up! ... Let me know what you guys think! >> The mistake (And it IS a goof!) has already been noted by a number of my AF friends. If Kalmbach was publishing Playboy they would probably put a near-naked guy on the front cover. The new Greenberg AF guide cover and the recent article on the 21004/21005 B6b indicate that they are really 'on a roll'. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5342	From: Richard	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Kids and Ertl

Some time ago..nearly a year, Glenn and I orchestrated to get an Ertl Set downto me in OZ. Much thanks again... not thatI get to play with it <smile> the kids love it and thats where it will stay. It does goes to show though that a "starter set" need not be terribly clever....just needs to be fun....gee how amazing ..kids just want to have fun...sorry Cindy >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5343	From: Richard	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: The "Bachamnn" files

Some of you may have noticed that I think Bachmann have certainly done the deed extremelywel whenit comes to firstly manaaging anamazing turnaround of the company and image and inparticular hav eobviously done well with certain products...the Big HAuler Sets some years back, their Spectrum line is quite good (couple of exceptions when they forgot what they were trying to accomplish) and of course their killer stuff inthe large scale Shay and Climax. This company has really learnt how to kick goals... I am not affiliated in any way with these guys, just calling it as I see it. Then along comes the little ol On30 stuff....I amcurious as to how many different avenues of marketing and advertising were used tosell the On30 stuff in particular. My TV for some rerasondoesnt pick up your channnels <grin> and I dont get your junk mail or Papers...so it would be intersting to know...all adds to the "Bachmann Files" cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5344	From: Richard	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: another thing!!

It is not my place to second guess anyones intentions ot stragedy. I am suprised that it would take AM so much to mount a "true Starter set".No disrespect to Ron at all as he only knows his business. I do appreciate the fiscal headache of absorbing the sustaining costs of essentially furbishing the majors with"free' credit over the seasons in order to get the big sales happening. For those a little confused ..it works a bit like this. Company XYZ makes and supplies a number of wholesale/retail concerns with lots of product , but it is on extended credit terms, especially over the holiday season (thats Christmas). ..so it canbe that stuff is out there for up to three months without payment...thats after the time it has taken to manufacture ...so its quite possible that something may take 6 months (or more) to make distribute, have sold and be paid for.. SO you see company XYZ is financing the whole thing really. I have to admit it is not my money , so is easy to armchair analyse....doesnt cost a cent. However many an enterprise might take the stance that if secure orders can be had and the cost of getting the stuff out there and sold can be "reasonable" (and hell the Banks do this everyday) ...and if you are utilising tooling ALREADY armortised, and you make semi simplified versionof the product...maybe no or fewer handrails, simplified paintschemes etc ..in other words downmarket the product a little...then why is it quite SO HARD!!. The profit margins are reduced as with all mass marketed items, you're speading the load and returns over larger numbers...you can market it under another bogus brand if you are worried about image dilution. or you can use it as a sales leader (always two sides to a coin). There is nothing new to any of this..I just sit here scratching my head wondering. There are many avenues of approach to selling and marketing...it just seems to me that most of Model Railroading-dom seems confined by some mystical force that limits its horizons. Its a hobby ...its a pastime...and there are millions out there looking for something to do, they arent train nuts yet...they wont be counting the rivets or analysing the authenticity of a relevent paint scheme. ..they jusy want something fun to play with. Go to your local Walmart/Target/Toysrus/Great Train Store/Generic Toyshop and look at some of the stuff that is sold...look closely some of it is absolute crap, but it has been well enginnered towards markets. Much of this stuff would not have a defined market per se, and many of these items sell in the 10's of thousands indeed some in their 100's of thousands. Maybe that some people need to explore the envelope a little. Business is about taking risks, about trying things...those that dont will wither and die. In the meantime its back to my multi dollar enterprise <smurk>and Ill let the the real movers and shakers back to theirs. cheer>:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5345	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Yeah, you guys know I love CTT. I remember the article on the Seaboard Coaler, which had no information on operating or adjusting it or the variations that exist for you collector types; the article on transformers, which lacked even the most basic safety information, and their recommendations to use original Flyer lubricants and to fix up scratches on painted steam locos with blackening fluid. I'm sure I missed quite a few other howlers, because I don't read it that often. Even their articles on repairing Lionel, supposedly their specialty, are pretty shaky. They have almost no info on collecting non-Gilbert S, which is a fascinating field. Writing for them is weird too. They insist that you ' tell the story' with photos and have as little text as possible. This results in very simplistic material. They won't print any negative information about their advertizers' products if they can help it, and they won't print any alternative or controversial points of view. For example, they edited out a passage in a letter of mine which they printed that pointed out that collecting variations is not at the center of the hobby. Now, I'm sure that the guys who put it out are very good people, but it seems that CTT is a very low priority item at Kalmbach. To not have someone on staff who is thoroughly familiar with American Flyer operation, repair, and collecting, and can write about these things, is negligent. I do not think that having CTT be the leading magazine in the toy train field, when it neglects our interests so completely, is a very healthy thing for us. Hopefully, they will improve this situation in the near future. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5346	From: Richard	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Re: another thing!!

Larry Im talking dealing with the majors...not the small world of model railroading. In dealing with the biggies the Walmarts and Targets, especially with an item that is Christmas orientated they will ask (and get) that product is in warehouse no later than beginning of November and you probably wont get your rubels and scheckels til the end of JAn , beginning Feb. When dealing withthe majors, they make the rules, if you want to play ..you play. if you dont ,you go away!! lawrence jackman wrote: > I do not think so. When I was Smokey Valley RR & Machine Co, my terms was 2% > in ten days net 30 days. If you went over 30 days your next shipment was > C.O.D. There was no going 90 to 120 days. > Larry > cheers>:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5347	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: For a stinkin' little CAR?

Scott Holm wrote: >But how about this one? It's also a racing champions and it sold for >$102.50! Die Cast 1950 Oldsmobile 88 for "S" Gauge Item #169958546 >Is anybody thinking what I'm thinking? Gee, Brain, you mean how are we going to drive around in a little car that doesn't have a motor? Narf! No, Pinky, I was thinking, at these prices, who needs cars on the layout AT ALL??? Let's sell them all and with the proceeds we can buy more trains! Well, yes, silly, silly me. But how does this figure into your plans to take over the world? What? Oh yes, that. Don't bother me now. I've got to get more trains! We'll be back to the Kid's WB in just a moment, but first these really valuable toy commercials~ 2-2-go CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5348	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Reverse Psychology

Tom Jarcho said: >I would like to see a U-25B myself. But I would >not buy it unless it had an electromagnetic (old fashioned) reverse unit >and ran on 7-20 VAC. Geez Tom, every time we take a step forward, someone comes along and with a single phrase, yanks us backward 2, maybe 3, steps. First, I appreciate your position on electronic reverse units and to some extent, I agree with it. Second, nobody is making a U-boat (or too much else in new motive power) in S because there is too limited a population to justify the tooling, particularly when the manufacturers know, from the hard knocks experience of the past, that guys won't buy a unit for picayune reasons. "It didn't come out in my favorite roadname"; "it did come out in my favorite roadname, but not in the correct scheme"; "the numbering sequence is all wrong"; "they mounted the wrong horns and besides, the orange is too orangey"; "I model December of 1956 and the road didn't take delivery on these 'til January '57"; and the classic -- "I would not buy it unless it had an electromagnetic reverse unit and ran on 7-20 VAC". Third, since there are no U-boats, and you want a U-boat, I venture to say that if one were released onto the market, you would snap it right up even if it had no provision for reverse. If we plan to show a united front to the manufacturers (who are reading this right now and who read Tom's diatribe yesterday) we need to pull together. Bravado statements telling manufacturers and each other just what we plan to NOT buy because of personal predjudice, need to be attenuated. If this comment was meant to suggest or even compel an s-gauge builder to switch back to a mechanical reverse unit, it is unrealistic at best. In production, electronic boards are cheaper, easier to install, already made in vast quantities, require no further tooling, can be easily bypassed for DCC, provide directional starting which makes impromptu engine lash-ups possible, and have no moving parts to replace. Whatever their drawbacks, th ey can be quickly replaced, or even upgraded with the products of other manufacturers. They sure do beat "tender-tapping" to get sticky mechanical units to function. Wanting the old units back is one thing. Expecting manufacturers to embrace them and start producing this old technology in quantity is a pipe dream. It won't happen, so I guess you just aren't going to buy any more new locomotives, period. You might as well go see Bill Gates and convince him to start building Royal and Smith Corona mechanical typewriters. You want a discussion on e-units, fine. I just think that it is irresponsible to go openly onto a semi-public forum in front of the s-gauge world and make a general statement of negative intent like that. To someone lurking, perhaps a potential supplier, such an attitude of intimidation might be thought to reflect the whole group and would not instill confidence in someone who was about to roll a pair of heavy dice on our market. Not a personal attack here, just a circumspect viewpoint about admitted predjudice. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5349	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: reverse psychology

Well Chris, we are gonna have to agree to disagree here. S-listers are always asking and surveying each other about what new products they'd like to see. Up 'til now, I have never joined in this, except to suggest to one party that I would buy some plastic kits for New Haven type catenary towers. I thought that I would finally join in this time. I do not expect that anyone will make a U25B in S, for exactly the reasons you stated. So, I never expect I will buy one. I do expect to build a few, however, if I live long enough. I was really excited when the new affordable diesels started coming out. Aha, I thought, all our work is finally being rewarded. My only contact with them was through photos until I borrowed some and spent an entire evening trying to get an A-B-B-A set to go around a simple oval ONCE without the reverse units setting the engines pulling against each other. Couldn't get it to happen. Now, you may feel that having these items out there is a good thing. I don't. I imagine that many new buyers have some Flyer and want to add to it. These items are sold as being "Flyer compatible". Because of the reverse units and the little motors, they are not. I expect that products like this will tend to drive less experienced buyers out of the hobby or at least out of S. So to me they are a mixed blessing. And there is certainly grounds for complaint about them. I also don't feel that S-list is about presenting a united front to potential manufacturers. We have to hash things out and then go to the manufacturers when we have agreed about something, and S-list is the place to do this. I feel sorry for any manufacturer who is not an s gauger and feels compelled to read everything on s-list. For the first few weeks after I joined, the discussion was mostly about Dept. 56 X-mas buildings. I am not about to buy any loco that has a solid state reverse unit and am not alone in this. I understand from my O gauge friends that quite a few people buy MTH locos and replace the boards with old Lionel reverse units. If this were possible in the new S locos, I would consider buying them. So what I was offering was a possible compromise solution to the reverse unit problem. This isn't irresponsible. I regret that I have to disagree with you on this point and hope our cyber-relationship will survive this disagreement. Your postings are extremely informative and well-informed and you have a wonderful talent for putting feelings, as well as facts, into words in your postings. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5350	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/9/1999
Subject: Re: another thing!!

I do not think so. When I was Smokey Valley RR & Machine Co, my terms was 2% in ten days net 30 days. If you went over 30 days your next shipment was C.O.D. There was no going 90 to 120 days. Larry Richard wrote: > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > It is not my place to second guess anyones intentions ot stragedy. I am > suprised that it would take AM so much to mount a "true Starter set".No > disrespect to Ron at all as he only knows his business. > I do appreciate the fiscal headache of absorbing the sustaining costs of > essentially furbishing the majors with"free' credit over the seasons in > order to get the big sales happening. For those a little confused ..it > works a bit like this. Company XYZ makes and supplies a number of > wholesale/retail concerns with lots of product , but it is on extended > credit terms, especially over the holiday season (thats Christmas). ..so > it canbe that stuff is out there for up to three months without > payment...thats after the time it has taken to manufacture ...so its > quite possible that something may take 6 months (or more) to make > distribute, have sold and be paid for.. SO you see company XYZ is > financing the whole thing really. > > I have to admit it is not my money , so is easy to armchair > analyse....doesnt cost a cent. However many an enterprise might take the > stance that if secure orders can be had and the cost of getting the > stuff out there and sold can be "reasonable" (and hell the Banks do > this everyday) ...and if you are utilising tooling ALREADY armortised, > and you make semi simplified versionof the product...maybe no or fewer > handrails, simplified paintschemes etc ..in other words downmarket the > product a little...then why is it quite SO HARD!!. > The profit margins are reduced as with all mass marketed items, you're > speading the load and returns over larger numbers...you can market it > under another bogus brand if you are worried about image dilution. or > you can use it as a sales leader (always two sides to a coin). > > There is nothing new to any of this..I just sit here scratching my head > wondering. There are many avenues of approach to selling and > marketing...it just seems to me that most of Model Railroading-dom seems > confined by some mystical force that limits its horizons. Its a hobby > ...its a pastime...and there are millions out there looking for > something to do, they arent train nuts yet...they wont be counting the > rivets or analysing the authenticity of a relevent paint scheme. ..they > jusy want something fun to play with. Go to your local > Walmart/Target/Toysrus/Great Train Store/Generic Toyshop and look at > some of the stuff that is sold...look closely some of it is absolute > crap, but it has been well enginnered towards markets. Much of this > stuff would not have a defined market per se, and many of these items > sell in the 10's of thousands indeed some in their 100's of thousands. > > Maybe that some people need to explore the envelope a little. Business > is about taking risks, about trying things...those that dont will wither > and die. > In the meantime its back to my multi dollar enterprise <smurk>and Ill > let the the real movers and shakers back to theirs. > > cheer>:~)) Richard > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5351	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Random Thoughts

I went to ToysRUs this week. 1) Saw some Lionel starter sets, one for $99 and one for $150. 2) Saw a Bachman HO, 4 piece starter set, marked down to $19.99. I would love to see a reliable electronic reverse unit, they are my bigest head ache when it comes to train work. Went to a train show yesterday in Port St Lucie, Florida. The 'big' layout (ho or L no doubt) did not show up. List members Milo milorod@... & Bill Porter did show up with a loop of S-Helper track. Their loop was the only operating train at the show. Many folks come to these shows to see trains run. Milo & Bill had a crowd of curious and exited folks all day long. We are going to try and organize a better layout for the next show. Mark Preman was also there and offered to assist in our little S promotion. With the S-Helper track we plan on having Scale and Highrail trains running on seperate loops. We will keep you posted. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5352	From: Richard	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: how many

All you Sherlocks!! Good time for some real sleuth work...how many of such $100 and $150 L sets get sold at TrUS each year....in fact how many of anything anywhere...lets start a little database of sorts...lets learn whatwe have to doand where.. Well just an idea cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5353	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: reverse psychology

Tom, I would be interested in finding out how the 'O' guys repalce the electronic reverse unit in MTH locos with the older Lionel sequence reverse unit. I thought, and I may be wrong, that MTH used DC can motors in all of there locos. I know that with the traditional Lionel universal motor it is a fairly easy swap to replace the electronic reverse with the traditional sequence reverse unit. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5354	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: East cost S activity, RR Track 2.5 program

Seems like lots in the NE, count your blessings! Both clubs and show participation. Count again. Enjoy! L. (the lone Ranger now spending his Silver...) and that RR TRACK 2.5 demo is quite a program! Does it all and exactly as desired! its - Go to http://www.rrtrack.com/rrtrack in case anyone forgot!!!!! Now was it thanx to Paul or Chuck or who suggested that...?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5355	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Survey of a week or so ago? and fun engines?

This was an unofficial survey? anyhoo Le questions with moi response-- 1) Does model need to be of same detail level as a good scale RTR model NO, but how bout a superdetailing kit? 2) Does prototype fidelity matter as much IMHO no 3)Is it acceptable to paint models in non prototypical schemes ( ie a loco for a RR that never had them) Well there is undecorated.... 4) what are the most desirable Road Names As an ex Clevelander, how bout Erie? or C & O? even CB&Q? and naturally Pennsylvania. 5) Does a loco HAVE to have all the bells and whistles (literally) Sound was important to Flyer operators in '50 , why not now? Sure. And/or havvit an addon later? 6) Are special run limited editions of interest (These might be more if the hand asembled rather than mass injected style...not necesarily of brass) Cost is a factor in my case, simply cause of the cost/hours run factor. 7) I have alreay asked before, but...hey lets trot this one out in a slightly different manner....what 4 axle (electric or diesel) would make an interesting and desirable (youd go and buy it!!) addition to whats on offer. How bout one of those 'little' center cab jobs, with the 'tall' cab? Hmmm think they had a PAIR of trucks. As a steam era person I nebber learnt bout diesels cept ABA and later ABBA, but I really liked the music that ABBA made better.... (sorry couldnt resist). So much for the 'survey'... L. Why NOT a 2-6-0 or such with only basic stack/dome configuration? Add bells, numberboards, etc etc later? I mean a stripper, like the USofA has forgotten, I mean not quite a '76 Chevette type stripper but close to it, today everything has to have power everything, automatic, air, sunroof, etc!!! Plan the kit then the owner can add bells and whissles and handrails and whatever? Valve gear upgrade? Detailed cab? Couple tender options? Even couple cab options? Even a couple stack options, location/size of headlights, etc. How bout a Loco that one can have some FUN making, including the peculiaritys(SP) that his particular line might need, does that engine double as a switcher, then any mods for that use? A FUN loco, a FUN thing to build. Now that I write this, is there too much seriousness in our hobby that originally was a FUN thing? Maybe I better go back to the layout of track on the living room floor..!!?? I leave the soapbox (for the time being).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5356	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel

Dear Chuck, Ertl still lists the set in their distributor price sheet. Don Thompson Chuck Smith wrote: > From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> > > Seems like we had a starter set in S, namely the Ertl set. Whatever > happened to it? > > RBubeck327@... wrote: > > > > From: RBubeck327@... > > > > In a message dated 10/8/99 1:47:03 PM, gartrain@... writes: > > > > << Hey that's American Models and S-Helper. Now if they had an inexpensive > > starter set we could get to the public domain then we could let Gilbert items > > fade into > > history. >> > > > > True. In expensive starter sets are very much needed. Unfortunately, much > > of the current AM and SHS line is unsuitable for this. Most of it is too > > fragile to give to a seven year old to play with. > > > > RB > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5357	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel

I am not sure on the 5000 number for the Ertl production. On of their vice presidents at the Model and Hobby show a few years ago told me they made 50,000 sets. Judging by the MSRP and the cost of tooling, I cannot see how 5000 sets could retail for $50.00. when they were sold through distributors. Don t. Glenn Ritter wrote: > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > > Seems like they made about 5,000 ERTL > battery powered sets. It took about 4 years > and many price reductions to sell some > of them. Scenery Unlimited still has some > for sale. Trouble with battery sets is you can't > add to them or develop them into a layout > unless you kitbash the parts like Richard Snook > may do, if he gets them back from his kids. > > Glenn > > Chuck Smith wrote: > Seems like we had a starter set in S, namely the Ertl set. Whatever > happened to it? > > RBubeck327@... wrote: > > > > From: RBubeck327@... > > > > In a message dated 10/8/99 1:47:03 PM, gartrain@... writes: > > > > << Hey that's American Models and S-Helper. Now if they had an inexpensive > > starter set we could get to the public domain then we could let Gilbert items > > fade into > > history. >> > > > > True. In expensive starter sets are very much needed. Unfortunately, much > > of the current AM and SHS line is unsuitable for this. Most of it is too > > fragile to give to a seven year old to play with. > > > > RB > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5358	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: another thing!!

Dear Larry, You did not sell to Wal-Mart or Toys are off. If you want their business, they torture you on the terms. Don T. lawrence jackman wrote: > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > I do not think so. When I was Smokey Valley RR & Machine Co, my terms was 2% > in ten days net 30 days. If you went over 30 days your next shipment was > C.O.D. There was no going 90 to 120 days. > Larry > > Richard wrote: > > > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > > > It is not my place to second guess anyones intentions ot stragedy. I am > > suprised that it would take AM so much to mount a "true Starter set".No > > disrespect to Ron at all as he only knows his business. > > I do appreciate the fiscal headache of absorbing the sustaining costs of > > essentially furbishing the majors with"free' credit over the seasons in > > order to get the big sales happening. For those a little confused ..it > > works a bit like this. Company XYZ makes and supplies a number of > > wholesale/retail concerns with lots of product , but it is on extended > > credit terms, especially over the holiday season (thats Christmas). ..so > > it canbe that stuff is out there for up to three months without > > payment...thats after the time it has taken to manufacture ...so its > > quite possible that something may take 6 months (or more) to make > > distribute, have sold and be paid for.. SO you see company XYZ is > > financing the whole thing really. > > > > I have to admit it is not my money , so is easy to armchair > > analyse....doesnt cost a cent. However many an enterprise might take the > > stance that if secure orders can be had and the cost of getting the > > stuff out there and sold can be "reasonable" (and hell the Banks do > > this everyday) ...and if you are utilising tooling ALREADY armortised, > > and you make semi simplified versionof the product...maybe no or fewer > > handrails, simplified paintschemes etc ..in other words downmarket the > > product a little...then why is it quite SO HARD!!. > > The profit margins are reduced as with all mass marketed items, you're > > speading the load and returns over larger numbers...you can market it > > under another bogus brand if you are worried about image dilution. or > > you can use it as a sales leader (always two sides to a coin). > > > > There is nothing new to any of this..I just sit here scratching my head > > wondering. There are many avenues of approach to selling and > > marketing...it just seems to me that most of Model Railroading-dom seems > > confined by some mystical force that limits its horizons. Its a hobby > > ...its a pastime...and there are millions out there looking for > > something to do, they arent train nuts yet...they wont be counting the > > rivets or analysing the authenticity of a relevent paint scheme. ..they > > jusy want something fun to play with. Go to your local > > Walmart/Target/Toysrus/Great Train Store/Generic Toyshop and look at > > some of the stuff that is sold...look closely some of it is absolute > > crap, but it has been well enginnered towards markets. Much of this > > stuff would not have a defined market per se, and many of these items > > sell in the 10's of thousands indeed some in their 100's of thousands. > > > > Maybe that some people need to explore the envelope a little. Business > > is about taking risks, about trying things...those that dont will wither > > and die. > > In the meantime its back to my multi dollar enterprise <smurk>and Ill > > let the the real movers and shakers back to theirs. > > > > cheer>:~)) Richard > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5359	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, October 10, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5360	From: Jphimmel6@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Transformer Buzz

How can I get rid of the buzzing noise in my American Flyer transformer? John Himmelberger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5361	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Mystery diesels on ebay #176352807

Could some one please identify this loco? I don't think it's Gilbert? looks like an f-3,is it even s-guage? Thanks, brad

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5362	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: Transformer Buzz

John, Wasp and bee spray usually does it...... Turn up the radio/TV/Stereo...... OK, we're working on an FAQ for this, but in a nutshell; Buzzing is usually the coil against the core, or the core itself. On little guys, like the plastic cased 1-1/2 types, tightening the base screws will often stop it. On larger ones, a combination of carefully done tricks is in order. The factories often used hardwood wedges between the coil and the core, if yours already has these, sometimes a little tightening is all they need, tap in carefully, you don't want to damage the coil stack. If yours doesn't have any, you may need to add them. The FAQ will need diagrams to really explain this, so bear with us! Some cores are screwed into the cases, or onto the bases, make sure these connections are tight. Sometimes, even the best of "fixes" still results in a Hummer, my 18B on the "Christmas layout" is noisier than I like, but then I don't forget to turn it off!! ("Christmas Layout" in name only, it's been up for over two years now!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5363	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: Mystery diesels on ebay #176352807

Yep, They're Gilbert, but not AF, Gilbert HO! Looks in pretty good shape, too. I think these were made by Varney for ACG?? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5364	From: Nerker, Robert	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: need help with brush soldering and alco gear question

In fixing up a AF alco this weekend I had a devil of a time with soldering new brushes onto the brass holders. Every time I tried to solder them on , the little copper tab would break off. I would up gluing the brush on from 3 sides, but am afaid of the conductivity failure etc. Whats the right way to solder these on? or better to get them all made up? I also did a couple of new bushings in my alco chasis, but was not sure if there was a wrong/right way for the gear that is on the axil to go back in? Any words of wisdom would be welcome! as I am resurrecting my AF's since I was a kid- a long time coming....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5365	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Transformer Buzz

A tiny hum may be normsl for some. Is it loud? I have one that buzzes because the plastic case has had a hairline crack for years. In that situation I know the transformer is safely secured to the table and the interior is secure so I don't worry about it. Another cause could be that the bolts holding the laminated plates together are slightly loose. To eliminate the hum you have to find out what is vibrating and stop it. You'll probably have to open it up to see what it is. Jphimmel6@... wrote: > > From: Jphimmel6@... > > How can I get rid of the buzzing noise in my American Flyer transformer? > > John Himmelberger > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5366	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Schlitz beer car

We just took delivery of the first run of Schlitz Beer reefers (Crown). The entire first delivery has already gone out to fill dealer orders and retail reservations, but I expect more to be delivered this week. Three different numbers. Should have a photo on our website later this week. $36.95 per car + $4 shipping per order. Doug Port Lines

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5367	From: Don Abrams	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Reverse Units

I've had good success with Dallee solid state reverse units. They're not cheap, but sometimes you get what you pay for. I did several for a customer a few years back and have had no complaints from that quarter either. I like starting in forward all the time. I like the way it 'forgives' dirty spots on the track or the tender wheels loosing contact on curves without dropping into neutral. I certainly don't miss the 'hum.' Just my 2c. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5368	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Reverse Units

I would like to add to what Don has written by saying that I have had very good luck with electronic reverse units, as well. These include those used in AM, SHS, and in Lionel AF and O gauge TMCC-equipped engines. I had one unit become troublsome in my Lionel AF B&O Alcos (from 1981) but this was quickly and readily replaced by my local dealer (a Lionel repair station) under warrantee. As a personal note, I am usually not intimidated by circuit boards and do not feel uncomfortable replacing/repairing them. Others may have different comfort levels with the newer technology and their feelings are understandable. Overall, I believe that the positive features of the electronics outweight the negatives for many operators. I do, however, also believe that electronic sound systems have yet to beat Gilbert's synchronized smoke and choo-choo mechanism. My 2c. :-)) RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5369	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Transformer Buzz

> How can I get rid of the buzzing noise in my American Flyer transformer? > > John Himmelberger Shellac the edges of the plates in the actual transformer. This bonds them together so they can't vibrate. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5370	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: need help with brush soldering and alco gear question

Robert, There was a bad batch of these brushes that wouldn't take the solder, the plating was too thin, maybe that is your problem. The gear doesn't know which way it's going on, but the axle sure does! One side of the axle is larger than the other, by the diameter of the knurling. (I know, I should be able to give you the dimensions, but I don't have that info handy, sorry). If you look at your gear, it is probable that you can see that on one side the axle hole is disturbed by the axle knurling, and the other side likely isn't. So now the question arises, to install the same way so as to not stress anything again, or will that make for a loose gear on the axle, so you want to turn it around? Also turning it around will change the wear pattern to the opposite side of the gear tooth. Ah, to be or not to be, THAT is the question! Whether 'tis nobler to....Oh, I digress....(I'm certainly not digesting, no breakfast yet! ) Speaking of which, I gotta get going, let us know how your overhaul is doing! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5371	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: need help with brush soldering and alco gear question

Nerker, Robert wrote: > In fixing up a AF alco this weekend I had a devil of a time with soldering > new brushes onto the brass holders. Every time I tried to solder them on , > the little copper tab would break off. I would up gluing the brush on from 3 > sides, but am afaid of the conductivity failure etc. Whats the right way to > solder these on? or better to get them all made up? Buy replacemants ready to use. Solder won't stick to brushes as a rule. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5372	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 398

I had to come home this afternoon to wait for a repair man. Decided to open the e-mail. Some quick thoughts: 1 -2% net 30 terms went out of style shortly after Gilbert went out of business. 2- The big stores such as WalMart and Toys R Us have been cited as one of the reasons for the failure of both Lionel and Gilbert. Tains needed a salesman knowledgeable in the product. 3 - A Gilbert sequence reverse unit can be wired to reverse a DC motor. It requires a bridge rectifier. I converted a 332 (DC) to AC without replacing the motor. This was per the owners request. I works fine. Wiring diagram is in an old S-Gaugian. 4 - Running S Gauge at train shows is the most effective option to promote the gauge. However, it does require effort. The Atlantic Coast S Gaugers layout at a recent show was a great draw. The N Gauge tables are too high for the kids to see and no one was showing O gauge. Now it's time to go back to work! ---- Nick Colleran

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5373	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: buzz & brushes

Transformer buzz: some Flyer transformers had wooden wedges. I believe they were driven between the coil and the core. These cut down on the buzz. Probably by the end of production (that unit , #22035, was the last big Flyer transformer) they were skipping little details like that. Diesel brushes: Two points: 1. A good way to attach them is by using a third hand tool ( a tool with 2 or 3 adjustable arms ending in alligator clips) to hold the brush in position on the arm. Once it is aligned correctly, add a little non-acid flux paste to the joint with a toothpick and solder. Before soldering, it's important to clean the area on the arm where the brush will go down to clean bare metal with a flat file. The little hole often has to be widened just a little also. I use a round needle file for this task. 2. These brushes are graphite to which solder doesn't adhere well. There is supposed to be a little copper plating on the surface of the brush that faces the solder joint. I have heard that there is a batch of repro brushes out there which don't have enough copper on them. My recollection is that these were the longer brushes for the Baldwin switcher, but the brushes you have may be this way too, which may be part of the problem . Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5374	From: Richard	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Park Toys 1:55

bad news here I got to copy the specs of the mobile crane. I carried a print with me to the store. The crane was just a ways too big, so figure the forklift would be too. Would make really good models in "O" probably For some reason I always have difficulty with scaling trucks and cars in "S"..its got me why this should be hard , I can measure off without a tape 1m to within 1-2 cm, but all those toy cars and truck!!! , thats why I carry prints with me now , so I can hold them next to a possible candidate and compare!! For anyone intersted I can scan and send an image of a Grove 50 ton mobile crane in pure "S" cheers >:~) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5375	From: James B. Miller	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: starter sets

My personal interest is 'scale' not high-rail or AF collecting, but I do follow the S-trains list for whatever it's worth. There seem to be quite a few opinions lately regarding starter sets -- that today's kids are interested in stuff that is fast and colorful -- that the price can't get too high -- that there is no aftermarket to follow-up and hold interest -- etc. The other day, I began to think about the high-speed trains that are becoming more prevelant on the prototype in today's world. The models can certainly be run fast and remain prototypical, and they have colorful and sleek paint schemes. It may be less expensive to make the dies, since all cars have a similar cross-section and shape - probably varying mostly in the window placement. In addition, the same end unit is good for both ends. Details on these trains is probably minimal. The biggest problem, might be getting the cars around model curves without a lot of compromises in the car body. If the model curves are too restrictive, another idea might be a light-rail train. Prototype light-rail trains go around curves that are sharper than the high-rail curves scale-out to. Again. this would use the same car at each end with an articulated powered center unit. The drawback here would be the additional details that are on the light-rail cars and whether they would hold-up to play. There might be a better after-sales market on light-rail sets however -- interior details, track with concrete ties or with street paving - street crossings - lights - horn + bell sound units with controllers - ramps + bridge sections (light-rail can climb some pretty steep grades to a bridge section and the bridge can represent the simple pre-cast concrete beams that are in use today - again, simple die-work). If a decent coupler is worked out for this (light-rail type), multiple sets could be M-Ued together. If these are done nicely, they might even appeal to some scale modelers or 3/16" trolley modelers (a really scarce breed). I am not a manufacturer, but I would think this would be a less expensive item to produce and market. It should eliminate the need to produce a wide range of totally different cars and/or an engine with lots of details (ie. steam). It's aIso something that is more likely to be seen by today's kids than an expensive steam engine. I thought I would throw this idea out for what it's worth, maybe something different to explore and hash. -- Jim Miller

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5376	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Reverse Units

Dear Don, Yes, the Dallee units are O.K. He helped in the design of ours with a few last minute tweaks. He is the one (Dallas Gutaker) that told me about the Lionel 24 volt KW transformers that lots of S gaugers sometimes use. With that knowledge, we upped the power ratings of the mosfets to 60 volts (from 30) and have had remarkably few problems. I bet we have had less than a dozen reports of e-unit problems out of 2800 sold. Don T. P.S. Dallas had by pass surgery last July and he is doing fine. Don Abrams wrote: > From: Don Abrams <donabrams@...> > > I've had good success with Dallee solid state reverse units. > They're not cheap, but sometimes you get what you pay for. > I did several for a customer a few years back and have had no complaints > from that quarter either. > I like starting in forward all the time. > I like the way it 'forgives' dirty spots on the track or the tender > wheels loosing contact on curves without dropping into neutral. > I certainly don't miss the 'hum.' > Just my 2c. > Don > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5377	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 398

Dear Nick, I know what you mean about the too high for kids. We set our diplay layout at 30" for that reason. Don T. Nick and Becky Colleran wrote: > From: Nick and Becky Colleran <colleran@...> > > I had to come home this afternoon to wait for a repair man. Decided to > open the e-mail. Some quick thoughts: > > 1 -2% net 30 terms went out of style shortly after Gilbert went out of > business. > > 2- The big stores such as WalMart and Toys R Us have been cited as one of > the reasons for the failure of both Lionel and Gilbert. Tains needed a salesman > knowledgeable in the product. > > 3 - A Gilbert sequence reverse unit can be wired to reverse a DC motor. It > requires > a bridge rectifier. I converted a 332 (DC) to AC without replacing the > motor. This was > per the owners request. I works fine. Wiring diagram is in an old S-Gaugian. > > 4 - Running S Gauge at train shows is the most effective option to promote > the gauge. > However, it does require effort. The Atlantic Coast S Gaugers layout at a > recent show > was a great draw. The N Gauge tables are too high for the kids to see and > no one was > showing O gauge. > > Now it's time to go back to work! ---- Nick Colleran > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5378	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/10/1999
Subject: Re: another thing!!

Not me when I sell my stuff I set the terms or they can walk. If you have the better mouse trap the will come to you. Lary Don Thompson wrote: > Dear Larry, > You did not sell to Wal-Mart or Toys are off. If you want their business, > they torture you on the terms. > Don T. > > lawrence jackman wrote: > > > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > > > I do not think so. When I was Smokey Valley RR & Machine Co, my terms was 2% > > in ten days net 30 days. If you went over 30 days your next shipment was > > C.O.D. There was no going 90 to 120 days. > > Larry > > > > Richard wrote: > > > > > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > > > > > It is not my place to second guess anyones intentions ot stragedy. I am > > > suprised that it would take AM so much to mount a "true Starter set".No > > > disrespect to Ron at all as he only knows his business. > > > I do appreciate the fiscal headache of absorbing the sustaining costs of > > > essentially furbishing the majors with"free' credit over the seasons in > > > order to get the big sales happening. For those a little confused ..it > > > works a bit like this. Company XYZ makes and supplies a number of > > > wholesale/retail concerns with lots of product , but it is on extended > > > credit terms, especially over the holiday season (thats Christmas). ..so > > > it canbe that stuff is out there for up to three months without > > > payment...thats after the time it has taken to manufacture ...so its > > > quite possible that something may take 6 months (or more) to make > > > distribute, have sold and be paid for.. SO you see company XYZ is > > > financing the whole thing really. > > > > > > I have to admit it is not my money , so is easy to armchair > > > analyse....doesnt cost a cent. However many an enterprise might take the > > > stance that if secure orders can be had and the cost of getting the > > > stuff out there and sold can be "reasonable" (and hell the Banks do > > > this everyday) ...and if you are utilising tooling ALREADY armortised, > > > and you make semi simplified versionof the product...maybe no or fewer > > > handrails, simplified paintschemes etc ..in other words downmarket the > > > product a little...then why is it quite SO HARD!!. > > > The profit margins are reduced as with all mass marketed items, you're > > > speading the load and returns over larger numbers...you can market it > > > under another bogus brand if you are worried about image dilution. or > > > you can use it as a sales leader (always two sides to a coin). > > > > > > There is nothing new to any of this..I just sit here scratching my head > > > wondering. There are many avenues of approach to selling and > > > marketing...it just seems to me that most of Model Railroading-dom seems > > > confined by some mystical force that limits its horizons. Its a hobby > > > ...its a pastime...and there are millions out there looking for > > > something to do, they arent train nuts yet...they wont be counting the > > > rivets or analysing the authenticity of a relevent paint scheme. ..they > > > jusy want something fun to play with. Go to your local > > > Walmart/Target/Toysrus/Great Train Store/Generic Toyshop and look at > > > some of the stuff that is sold...look closely some of it is absolute > > > crap, but it has been well enginnered towards markets. Much of this > > > stuff would not have a defined market per se, and many of these items > > > sell in the 10's of thousands indeed some in their 100's of thousands. > > > > > > Maybe that some people need to explore the envelope a little. Business > > > is about taking risks, about trying things...those that dont will wither > > > and die. > > > In the meantime its back to my multi dollar enterprise <smurk>and Ill > > > let the the real movers and shakers back to theirs. > > > > > > cheer>:~)) Richard > > > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > -- > Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > Ask about the Fall Get-Together > September 24th, 25th & 26th > South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5379	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Flyer F-Units on e-Bay

Brad Rockwell wrote: >Mystery diesels on ebay #176352807 >Could some one please identify this loco? I don't think it's Gilbert? >looks like an f-3,is it even s-guage? Thanks, brad Brad: These look like HO. See the coupler on the dummy (on the right.) I don't think these are Gilbert, either. Probably an HO set that was called "The American Flyer." Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5380	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: transformer buzz

The transformer on my workbench is a 100 watt 4B model that buzzed excessively. With all this talk about transformer buzz, I decided to investigate it. I opened it up and found that there was a wooden slat between the coil and core. I made some small wedges out of 1/4" square cross section balsa wood strip. Drove them into the space between the coil and core on either side of the wood slat by putting one end of the balsa strip against the end of each wedge and tapping it lightly with a screwdriver handle. Had to dismount the circuit breaker and move it out of the way to get at one end of the coil. These wedges reduced the buzz considerably. Don't know if it will stay quiet but time will tell. I think that it is important not to damage the insulating enamel on the coil windings; balsa wood is very soft and probably did not harm the enamel. Obviously, any transformer should be unplugged before it is opened up, and tested carefully when it is reassembled. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5381	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: New Trains Homepage

Hi Everyone, I have my new homepage far enough along for you to look at. It is at www.homestead.com/waynestrains/index.html Thanks for the suggestion to use this, Paul. Could you make sure Greg knows about it and adds it to his of layouts/homepages on S Scale homepage. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5382	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: transformer buzz

Congrats Tom!! You have now joined the exclusive club of "Transformer Wedgies" Actually, I found out this trick in a "L" repair manual, seems to work on AF stuff too....;-) I have to try Roger's trick of varnishing the core plates. Wonder if epoxy would be better? S' David "We were buzzing along, on Transformer Day The coils were humming, They seemed to say, 'You have taken my tune, now do go away' As the trains kept rolling on, on Transformer Day." Hmm, *maybe* Bing would have liked it??? (hint--Moonlight Bay)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5383	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: transformer buzz

Take it easy on those MEDS, David!! > > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > Congrats Tom!! > You have now joined the exclusive club of "Transformer Wedgies" > Actually, I found out this trick in a "L" repair manual, seems to work > on AF stuff too....;-) > I have to try Roger's trick of varnishing the core plates. Wonder if > epoxy would be better? > S' > David > "We were buzzing along, on Transformer Day > The coils were humming, > They seemed to say, > 'You have taken my tune, now do go away' > As the trains kept rolling on, on Transformer Day." > > Hmm, *maybe* Bing would have liked it??? > (hint--Moonlight Bay) > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5384	From: Michael Greene	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: Re: starter sets

Jim, This is an excellent line of thought -- My observation is that kids today are a very different "beast" in terms of likes and dislikes. My unscientific sampling finds kids more interested in "bullet" trains, "phantom" designs, and other sleek designs when offered that as an alternative to steam and diesel of years gone by. And lots of sound! Roco, one of the top European manufacturers of model railroad equipment, made their first DCC starter set a few years back of the German ICE. Targetted straight at kids. And from what I can see it was very popular. I also agree with the thought about less expensive sets using some of the bullet trains. For example I recently acquired LGB (yes, LGB) 3 unit large scale LCE (a takeoff of the German ICE) for $125 at a local dealer. These were fully functional. One loco was powered -- the other the exact same, except missing the motor. Not real high on detail, but real functional for kids. No track, but the trainset ready to run for $125. Michael At 05:14 PM 10/11/1999 -0400, James B. Miller wrote: >From: "James B. Miller" <jbmiller@...> > >My personal interest is 'scale' not high-rail or AF collecting, but I do >follow the S-trains list for whatever it's worth. There seem to be quite a >few opinions lately regarding starter sets -- that today's kids are >interested in stuff that is fast and colorful -- that the price can't get >too high -- that there is no aftermarket to follow-up and hold interest -- >etc. > >The other day, I began to think about the high-speed trains that are >becoming more prevelant on the prototype in today's world. The models can >certainly be run fast and remain prototypical, and they have colorful and >sleek paint schemes. It may be less expensive to make the dies, since all >cars have a similar cross-section and shape - probably varying mostly in the >window placement. In addition, the same end unit is good for both ends. >Details on these trains is probably minimal. The biggest problem, might be >getting the cars around model curves without a lot of compromises in the car >body. > >If the model curves are too restrictive, another idea might be a light-rail >train. Prototype light-rail trains go around curves that are sharper than >the high-rail curves scale-out to. Again. this would use the same car at >each end with an articulated powered center unit. The drawback here would >be the additional details that are on the light-rail cars and whether they >would hold-up to play. > >There might be a better after-sales market on light-rail sets however -- >interior details, track with concrete ties or with street paving - street >crossings - lights - horn + bell sound units with controllers - ramps + >bridge sections (light-rail can climb some pretty steep grades to a bridge >section and the bridge can represent the simple pre-cast concrete beams that >are in use today - again, simple die-work). If a decent coupler is worked >out for this (light-rail type), multiple sets could be M-Ued together. > >If these are done nicely, they might even appeal to some scale modelers or >3/16" trolley modelers (a really scarce breed). > >I am not a manufacturer, but I would think this would be a less expensive >item to produce and market. It should eliminate the need to produce a wide >range of totally different cars and/or an engine with lots of details (ie. >steam). It's aIso something that is more likely to be seen by today's kids >than an expensive steam engine. I thought I would throw this idea out for >what it's worth, maybe something different to explore and hash. > > -- Jim Miller > >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5385	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/11/1999
Subject: transformer buzz

To paraphrase the Isley Bros.: "Tight, tight the power !" Or maybe Archie Bell and the Drells: "Tighten up !" Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5386	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Price Guide

I know some of you have a problem with 'price guides' but the latest Greenberg Price guide is available online. See http://www.gate.net/~yorke/booklist2.htm. It's the 'only' S-Gauge pocket guide with the o-gauge engine on the cover. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5387	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Fast Trains starter set.

Hi All, Interesting discussion on Bullet Trains starter sets. I can understand why they are popular with children in Europe. Europe has them there so kids know what they are. We don't have them in the U.S. yet, and they are not seen on TV much. I don't think they would be popular on this side of the ocean. And light rail, kids in urban area do see those but that would be as exciting as modeling a city bus. How many kits of city buses do you see in the hobby shops and discount stores? As much as I like steam and vintage diesels, I agree with those who say starter sets should have motive power that kids see along our highways, or, as much as I hate to agree the sleek units or fantasy units such as Thomas the Tank. Children can identify with these. A good start would be sets with AM Geeps F units, or SHS SW or even F units. These seem to still do well in HO sets. Wayne Beachy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5388	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: e-bay Af gp-7 rare371

check this one out for a "no way!" I don't believe it bid.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=174530628 1200.00 dollars at last time I looked. ends today so get your bids in quick! Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5389	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Late Flyer Diesels

Yes, they were F-7's and they are highly prized collectibles. They aren't worth squat as runners and they look like Marx on a bad day. CZ -----Original Message----- From: ironhors@... <ironhors@...> To: busy-boy <busy-boy@...> Date: Monday, October 11, 1999 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Flyer F-Units on e-Bay >Wasn't there a F-3 set that had a body so crude that the Frontiersman looked >scale comared to it? I think I saw one or two at Newt Brown's house years >ago.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5390	From: Jphimmel6@aol.com	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 399

Thanks for the helpful information. John Himmelberger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5391	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Late Flyer Diesels

Chris wrote about the AF F units, "Yes, they were F-7's and they are highly prized collectibles. They aren't worth squat as runners and they look like Marx on a bad day." Well, actually, Marx stuff looks better!!!! I thought these looked wierd when I first saw the '61 catalog as a kid. The Pikemaster track looked good in the catalog, but once I saw it........ S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5392	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: 371 for over a thousand dollars?!

I haven't my 371 at work to look at for comparison, but what's with this price tag? I have a great 371 but never figured it was worth this much. What's up with this? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=174530628

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5393	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: 371 on e-bay

Perhaps the buyer or bidder got the 371 confused with the 375, which IS rare, or perhaps the seller placed a bid. I don't shop on e-bay, but isn't the seller allowed to make one bid? Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5394	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: e-bay Af gp-7 rare371

Cbtrainnut@... wrote: > > From: Cbtrainnut@... > > check this one out for a "no way!" I don't believe it > bid.http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=174530628 1200.00 > dollars at last time I looked. ends today so get your bids in quick! > Chris Burger > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm Wow..guess I have to review my collectors insurance..have 3 of these... hard to believe the price...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5395	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: starter sets

Bullet trains are nice, but... I think that both steam locos and cab diesels have reached the status of American icons, famed in myth, legend, and song, and starter sets with one of these put kids in touch with that. I think they can sense it too. When I was a musician I was always amused by how British rock was full of nautical images and references while American rock tended to use more railroad and automobile images. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5396	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Another Great deal on ebay!

I thought you guys might like this one also http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=174737790

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5397	From: RRDART@aol.com	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: one64brass list

To subscribe to the list email: <A HREF="mail to:one64brass-subscribe@onelist.com">one64brass-subscribe@onelis t.com</A> First, I want to say that I created the list before Bill Lane had even dissolved his list. I had sat on it for a while for several reasons. The first reason is that I don't think that we need more annoying email. The second is that after reading the emails I wasn't sure that it was needed. I do feel that the list is needed because there is not an easy way to match the buyer and seller of S scale brass right now. The most effective way that I see is the <A HREF="http://www.btsrr.com/btsclas1.htm">BTS classifieds.</A> I had sent to the list a series of hyperlinks for items on eBAy. I still see a need for the interested buyer to be able to get the information passively without having to click a series of hyperlinks. For instance, if you post on eBay or add an engine to the classified lists on BTS send an email. There are people out there that may be to sell what you want to buy and unless it's a Reading consolidation, someone probably wants to buy what you have to sell. John Craft

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5398	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Transformers

Hi Guy "S" : In the thirties transformers were covered with tar. Or it looks like tar. I have one of those transformers. It came with the Hiawatha tin train made by AF which I also still have. The transformer went up to 24 volts as I recall. I guess epoxy will work if the heat of the transformer won't effect it. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5399	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Jess Bennett's Layout

You heard it here first! I just received word from Jess Bennett of Careywood, Idaho, that his fabulous Great Northern is going to be included in next year's issue of "Great Model Railroads," published by Model Railroader magazine. Photos were taken in September, and the edition will be out in December 2000. (This year's edition has already been put to bed.) For those of you who have not heard of Jess (85 years young), he's a legend, not only in S, but in model railroading. Started in 1970, his current 1,000-square-foot layout is one of the most beautiful sights you'll ever see--took him two years just to hand-lay the track. He claims that it's the world's largest fully scenicked S-scale layout, and it's a work of art (not to mention his 30-some scratchbuilt steam locomotives). "Great Model Railroads" always represents the cream in layouts, and this issue will be a great showcase for our scale. Be sure to pick one up when they hit the stands next year. Congratulations, Jess! YourS, John Eichmann Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5400	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Maurer Rare Coins on ebay

Pardon me if I breached the internet rules of etiquette, but I just flamed that b-----d Maurer Rare Coins seller on ebay. He is playing with some shills and running up prices to absurd levels, in hopes of roping some neophyte sucker in to a last minute bid. Take a look. Examples: 18B, $380.00, 970, over $200.00 I told this low life to cut the c--p and take his business elsewhere. He is harming the auction and wasting our time!! Please join me in welcoming this jerk out the door. Steve Pendleton bestofbreed@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5401	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Another Great deal on ebay!

Notice that this is the same seller of the 371, and the current high bidder is the next-to-top bidder for the 371!! Wonder if someone is attempting to inflate train values for an insurance scam or???? " But on eBay an identical unit to my damaged one went for ......" S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5402	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Transformers

Roger, Good point, epoxy does become plastic at elevated temperatures. Will have to give it some thought. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5403	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: ongoing discussions (not mine) re, Lionel, future of model RR, etc

Jump to http://www.traincity.com/ and read the editorial. All FYI L. (short post!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5404	From: Dave Ewing	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Maurer Rare Coins on ebay

Went to ebay. Ending today. Highest price = most number of bids....okay. But why do they also have the same seller...??? Thanks for the tip, Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton <bestofbreed@...> To: <S-Trains@onelist.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 9:50 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Maurer Rare Coins on ebay > From: "Steve & Cathy Pendleton" <bestofbreed@...> > > Pardon me if I breached the internet rules of etiquette, but I just flamed that b-----d > Maurer Rare Coins seller on ebay. He is playing with some shills and running up prices to absurd levels, in hopes of roping some neophyte sucker in to a last minute bid. > > Take a look. > > Examples: 18B, $380.00, 970, over $200.00 > > I told this low life to cut the c--p and take his business elsewhere. He is harming the auction and wasting our time!! > > Please join me in welcoming this jerk out the door. > > Steve Pendleton > bestofbreed@... > > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5405	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: ICE

Interesting how great minds think alike all at the same time. Today, while waiting for my wife who was getting an MRI, I wandered into the "Caboose", a small train store run by Charlie, an 83 year old Marklin aficionado who always tries to get me over to his side when I visit by dragging out loco after loco, "They're all metal, you know!" and pointing out the details on every coach. He had the master catalog out today to show me Marklin's American style models (great looking ABA Western Pacific with a Cal. Zephyr in tow, btw) when I spotted a full page picture that caught my eye. It was the ICE train, running on the Rug and Carpet line, just emerging from the Sofa tunnel, and grinning at the transformer controls in the background was a 10 year old boy. I thought, "Gee, it's pretty, but what does it do besides go around and round real fast?" Then I realized, that's just what this kid wants it to do! Just like the one he's seen racing by when his family got stuck at a crossing gate and his father said, "Look, Hans, it is der ICE train!" (My apologies to Germans, everywhere!) In Europe, there exists a stronger base for model railroading because trains factor more into daily life. Flying the relatively short distances between European cities is costly and not time effective when airport ground travel is figured in. Driving is tedious and fuel is expensive. Trains are a best bet, and that's why they are so alive and in Euro kids minds. I think that the Amtrak Acela should be built and produced in a complete S gauge starter set. It is the newest train, kids will love it and S-gauge will be perfect for its introduction. Besides being the perfect size scale, "S", for many, is synonymous with American Flyer. Before Amtrak renamed this trainset, the Acela was known by its manufacturer as the "American Flyer" trainset. For what more auspicious beginning can we ask? Are you listening Don? Ron? 3rd. Rail? Hello . . . All aboard? Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5406	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: transformers

I have worked on those tar-filled early Flyer transformers too. I think that stuff is called bitumen. In those days, insulation was primitive -- there were no plastics that could do the job, and wires were covered with fabric for insulation, even the transformer windings. I believe the tar was poured in there to protect the fabric insulation and make the transformers tamper-proof for children, not to quiet them. To quiet a transformer, all that would probably need to be done is to epoxy the outside edges of the core leaves together. It wouldn't be necessary to fill up the whole transformer case as was done with the tar. I think the downside to epoxy is that if some accidentally got on the windings, it might eventually peel off and take some of the enamel insulation with it. Roger's suggestion to use shellac is really clever. Ideas like that are the best thing about S-list. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5407	From: Jarcho	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Acela starter set

I wonder if Amtrak could be persuaded to pay for part of the tooling up costs the way AT&SF, NYC, and GM paid for the Lionel F-3. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5408	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: New trains

Dear 1/64th. Scale Size People: You have a new train to ride. I saw and handled it today and it is wonderful. The engine is an old-time eight-wheeler (2-6-0) with tender. It burns coal. It is a narrow gauger. It comes with 2 coaches and a combination mail/baggage. Headlight and coaches are lit. Scale knuckle (fixed) couplers in frame pockets. Plenty of space to convert to standard gauge "S" trucks but regauging the loco will doubtless have its difficulties. Transformer and loop of roadbedded HO track are included. Highly detailed, beautiful scaling and far better proportions than the Flyer 4-4-0 sets (which were really narrow gauge O). Are you drooling yet? It ain't April Fools, 'cause this is Octember. Dept. 56, makers of all those ceramic houses, finally got the hint that HO was just too small. They took a note out of their own S-scale trolley's songbook (also on HO track, and now "retired", read no longer made or available in retail) and built a custom plastic train to S-Scale proportions. It is lovely and it runs quite well. Price $270.00 complete. A tad high. It is not yet up on the Department 56 website, but when it is, I'll post it. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5409	From: Richard	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Acela

Great Minds This was the very first thing that popped into my head, some time ago when word was out about the "New Amtrak". The second thought was and how much is Amtrak going to charge to licence it...I still dont know, maybe nothing, if youcould convince them you are actually helping to raise public conciousness. I would say this would be fantastic in S....revives the halycon days of Flyer etc when thatis exactly what they made, the latest and greatest...they seem period pieces today , but they were the bees knees back then. An Acela tearing around a Christmas Tree.........hmm anyone know where there are plans?? >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5410	From: Michael Greene	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Acela

At 10:57 AM 10/13/1999 +1000, you wrote: >From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > >Great Minds >This was the very first thing that popped into my head, some time ago >when word was out about the "New Amtrak". The second thought was and how >much is Amtrak going to charge to licence it...I still dont know, maybe >nothing, if youcould convince them you are actually helping to raise >public conciousness. >I would say this would be fantastic in S....revives the halycon days of >Flyer etc when thatis exactly what they made, the latest and >greatest...they seem period pieces today , but they were the bees knees >back then. >An Acela tearing around a Christmas Tree.........hmm anyone know where >there are plans?? > > >:~)) Richard I don't know all the details, but I know Bachmann has a license. At the train show this year, a Bachmann rep told me they plan to produce it in 2000. I understood it to be an N scale model. But someone else said they understood it to be HO. So I'm not sure, perhaps both??? Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5411	From: Richard	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Octember

My first thoughts were to do with a certain Dr Suess book, where in lies the joke that you can have anthing you want ,provided you wait until the first of Octember!! And you think no-one takes notice of these lists????????? If this is indeed true (no doubting Chris) then this is really a shot in the arm. The Sn3 guys will go even more bananas (maybe that's not possible....hang on where is that Shay!!) If this was ever the corridor to mainstream S that was needed, it sounds fantastic. Heres an irony, probably overnight, well over Christmas, the greatest area of S scale will be Sn42!! I can see the Kiwis with Visa cards poised, actually , we Ozzies have a bit of 42" Now thet obviously must be making a few sets, how about that instantaneously S scale will all but double in numbers, if ever an iron was hot...I can almost feel the heat from here. Can anyone else verify this monumental occasion?? Its like all our Christamases have come at once, must get out the red and white fat man suit!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5412	From: Richard	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Dept56

Just tried to email this Co , unfortunately they suffer tht US is the world syndrome (no offence, just P's me off when companies do this) WOuld someone care to bring to ther lovely attention, that people , other than Americans may wish to contact them and as such to provide either an eMail address or modify their "fields" to enable non-US participation. irate tantrum over, back to the celebrations....I hope >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5413	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Late Flyer Diesels

At 08:27 AM 10/12/99 -0700, you wrote: >From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > >Chris wrote about the AF F units, >"Yes, they were F-7's and they are highly prized collectibles. They aren't >worth squat as runners and they look like Marx on a bad day." > >Well, actually, Marx stuff looks better!!!! I thought these looked wierd >when I first saw the '61 catalog as a kid. The Pikemaster track looked good >in the catalog, but once I saw it........ > >S' >David D. When I was young, I saw an illustration of an F-7 in the instruction sheet that came with my pikemaster set and I thought it was pretty neat. I actually did not have one in my hands until almost 30 years later when I bought one then another. The poor thing looks like an O gauge body on S trucks and I thought Studebaker had some boneheaded ideas in the 60s(some good ones too). Jeff T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5414	From: leemax@xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: Jess Bennett's Layout

Arden, Even though I'm sure you knew about this, since you are not on the S-Trains list, just though you would like to read it. Lee At 4:33 PM 10/12/99, JOHN EICHMANN wrote: >From: "JOHN EICHMANN" <JEICHMANN@...> > >You heard it here first! > >I just received word from Jess Bennett of Careywood, Idaho, that his >fabulous Great Northern is going to be included in next year's issue of >"Great Model Railroads," published by Model Railroader magazine. Photos >were taken in September, and the edition will be out in December 2000. >(This year's edition has already been put to bed.) > >For those of you who have not heard of Jess (85 years young), he's a >legend, not only in S, but in model railroading. Started in 1970, his >current 1,000-square-foot layout is one of the most beautiful sights >you'll ever see--took him two years just to hand-lay the track. He claims >that it's the world's largest fully scenicked S-scale layout, and it's a >work of art (not to mention his 30-some scratchbuilt steam locomotives). > >"Great Model Railroads" always represents the cream in layouts, and this >issue will be a great showcase for our scale. Be sure to pick one up when >they hit the stands next year. Congratulations, Jess! > >YourS, >John Eichmann >Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers >Boise, Idaho > >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5415	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: transformers

Don't forget, one of Gilbert's prized patents was for enamel insulated wire! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5416	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Standards

> The Gargraves tracks will it work with S-Scale cars ? I'm new to S > guage and I purchased the gargraves Stainless steel 3' flex track and > now I'm not > sure that it will work with S-Scale engines and track. The more I read > in the Module packet the more confused I get. > > Thanks for your Help > Bruce ==================================== Sorry Bruce to hear that the module standards are confusing. I am not a Gargraves user, so I cannot answer concerning its use with "scale" wheels. I suspect it should work though. The bigger problem is with switches. Switches made for toy trains (AF) will not work with model ("scale") rolling stock because of the difference in flange size. The only switch that will work with both is a closing frog switch, as made by B-K enterprises, or scratch built. If you are not mixing toy and model trains, then you can use open frog switches, available from several sources, but you will need to use switches made for the type of wheel sets you are using, toy (hi-rail/AF) or model (scale). I suspect that Gargraves switches are only made for AF wheels. The Gargraves track is much too high for relative to the prototype. For track that is properly scaled, use code 72 up to code 125 (depending on whether you are modeling light weight branch and yard track, or heavier mainline track). Code 148 is slightly oversize, but close enough that some scale modelers use it anyway, and it has the advantage of being usable with hi-rail also. I will make a few comments about the standards. If I don't address your concerns, please write back. There are two standards; the NASG standards for wheels and track, and the S-MOD standards for modules. Any track that matches the NASG track standards for gauge should work with wheels that match the NASG wheel gauge standards. This information is in the S-MOD packet, but it is not part of the S-MOD standards. These standards are for track and wheel gauge, the distance between the inside edges of the rails. This is what is meant by "S gauge"; gauge refers ONLY to the width between the rails. Hopefully you have an NASG gage for checking your track and wheelsets. If not, make it high priority to get one. The S-MOD standards define the physical and electrical requirements of an S-MOD module. Any two modules meeting these specs should mate together without trouble. If the rails are of different height (code 100 vs code 148 for example), you will need a special bridge rail that joins the two. There are some modules that are built to standards different from S-MOD, so be cautious when talking about module standards, make sure which module standards are being discussed. Any questions or comments on this note, please reply direct to my e-mail address. Unfortunately, I do not have time to read all the mail that is addressed to the LIST. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Train Watching Along the Erie Canal http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5417	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/12/1999
Subject: Re: transformers

Isn't that a fancy name for tar or pitch Larry Jarcho wrote: > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > I have worked on those tar-filled early Flyer transformers too. I think > that stuff is called bitumen. In those days, insulation was primitive -- > there were no plastics that could do the job, and wires were covered with > fabric for insulation, even the transformer windings. I believe the tar > was poured in there to protect the fabric insulation and make the > transformers tamper-proof for children, not to quiet them. > > To quiet a transformer, all that would probably need to be done is to epoxy > the outside edges of the core leaves together. It wouldn't be necessary to > fill up the whole transformer case as was done with the tar. I think the > downside to epoxy is that if some accidentally got on the windings, it > might eventually peel off and take some of the enamel insulation with it. > Roger's suggestion to use shellac is really clever. Ideas like that are > the best thing about S-list. > > Tom Jarcho > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5418	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: Jess Bennett's Layout

This is great news for S. Some of our oldest and best modelers are getting their just due rewards at long last in the big magazines. Also, Frank Titman's Spiral Hill is featured in the "Great Model Railroads 2000" which is out or out soon. Let's keep trying to promote our scale and the fine people modeling in it. Roy ->At 4:33 PM 10/12/99, JOHN EICHMANN wrote: >>From: "JOHN EICHMANN" <JEICHMANN@...> >> >>You heard it here first! >> >>I just received word from Jess Bennett of Careywood, Idaho, that his >>fabulous Great Northern is going to be included in next year's issue of >>"Great Model Railroads," published by Model Railroader magazine. Photos >>were taken in September, and the edition will be out in December 2000. >>(This year's edition has already been put to bed.) >> >>For those of you who have not heard of Jess (85 years young), he's a >>legend, not only in S, but in model railroading. Started in 1970, his >>current 1,000-square-foot layout is one of the most beautiful sights >>you'll ever see--took him two years just to hand-lay the track. He claims >>that it's the world's largest fully scenicked S-scale layout, and it's a >>work of art (not to mention his 30-some scratchbuilt steam locomotives). >> >>"Great Model Railroads" always represents the cream in layouts, and this >>issue will be a great showcase for our scale. Be sure to pick one up when >>they hit the stands next year. Congratulations, Jess! >> >>YourS, >>John Eichmann >>Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers >>Boise, Idaho >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5419	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: NEW DEPT 56 TRAIN?

Dear S Gaugers, I haven't seen this "New" Dept 56 train yet but it sounds like last years Bachman On30 set which listed for $259.95 and by years end discounters were selling it for $150. That one was true "O" narrow gauge scale not "S". >From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> >Subject: New trains >Dear 1/64th. Scale Size People: >You have a new train to ride. I saw and handled it today and it is >wonderful. >The engine is an old-time eight-wheeler (2-6-0) with tender. It burns coal. >It is a narrow gauger. It comes with 2 coaches and a combination >mail/baggage. Headlight and coaches are lit. Scale knuckle (fixed) >couplers in frame pockets. Plenty of space to convert to standard gauge "S" >trucks but regauging the loco will doubtless have its difficulties. >Transformer and loop of roadbedded HO track are included. Highly detailed, >beautiful scaling and far better proportions than the Flyer 4-4-0 sets >(which were really narrow gauge O). >Dept. 56, makers of all those ceramic houses, finally got the hint that HO >was just too small. >It is lovely and it runs quite well. Price $270.00 complete. A tad high.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5420	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: AMTRAK ACELA

I don't ride Amtrak enough to know this train.I o know that to reach the starter setcrowd with 100,000 units plus advertising that Don, Ron & Scott (3rd Rail) don't have the $500,000 plus backing nor does Bachman want to enter "S" and Lionel won't re-enter "S" now. Can someone send this to MTH (Mike's Train House)? Staying on NASG track, Glenn > I think that the Amtrak Acela should be built and produced in a complete S > gauge starter set. It is the newest train, kids will love it and S-gauge > will be perfect for its introduction. Besides being the perfect size scale, > "S", for many, is synonymous with American Flyer. Before Amtrak renamed > this trainset, the Acela was known by its manufacturer as the "American > Flyer" trainset. For what more auspicious beginning can we ask? > > Are you listening Don? Ron? 3rd. Rail? Hello . . . All aboard? > > Two to go, > Chris Zizzo > > > > I wonder if Amtrak could be persuaded to pay for part of the tooling up > costs the way AT&SF, NYC, and GM paid for the Lionel F-3. Tom > > > > Great Minds > This was the very first thing that popped into my head, some time ago > when word was out about the "New Amtrak". The second thought was and how > much is Amtrak going to charge to licence it...I still dont know, maybe > nothing, if youcould convince them you are actually helping to raise > public conciousness. > I would say this would be fantastic in S....revives the halycon days of > Flyer etc when thatis exactly what they made, the latest and > greatest...they seem period pieces today , but they were the bees knees > back then. > An Acela tearing around a Christmas Tree.........hmm anyone know where > there are plans?? > > >:~)) Richard > > I don't know all the details, but I know Bachmann has a license. At the > train show this year, a Bachmann rep told me they plan to produce it in > 2000. I understood it to be an N scale model. But someone else said they > understood it to be HO. So I'm not sure, perhaps both??? > > Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5421	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Digest Number 401

Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Re: transformers Don't forget, one of Gilbert's prized patents was for enamel insulated wire! S' David D. < ... allowing Gilbert to make small motors to control the powerful P-47(?) fighter! charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5422	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: 371

Look at the bid history. It was going up $10 at a time and then it jumped. passauf27@... (0) Last bid at: $1,243.00 Date of bid: 10/11/99, 21:55:37 PDTrevicam (77) Last bid at: $1,218.00 Date of bid: 10/11/99, 20:05:51 PDTstoreslive.com (0) Last bid at: $520.00 Date of bid: 10/10/99, 14:08:13 PDTdemonlum (150) Last bid at: $301.00 Date of bid: 10/08/99, 21:42:42 PDTtylerb@... (0) Last bid at: $202.50 Date of bid: 10/06/99, 19:31:29 PDT CZ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5423	From: Don Abrams	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: 371 auction

I checked this out too last night. Check the bidding. Mostly new names with (0) after them. Also check this seller's other auctions. Lots of the same names with (0) after them. Some of those auctions ended up with very high or unrealistic prices. His high bidder on the 371 has a (0) after his name too and appears in other auctions by the same seller. I don't think Dick Tracy or a rocket scientist is needed to figure out what's happened here. Just make a note of the seller's, and possible shill bidder's names for future reference. Always check the bidding and the names you find there for patterns. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5424	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: starter sets

The current discussion about starter sets has persuaded me to change my mind on a couple of points. In the June issue of Canadian S Scale Quarterly I pooh-poohed the frequent suggestion that a starter set might consist of old Flyer cars behind an Atlantic, asking "how much appeal does a steam loco have for today's kids?" After all, most of them have never seen one. So I suggested that "Today's starter set might comprise a diesel switcher and three short freight cars, such as a hopper and a tank car . . . . " Now along comes Chris Burger with a story about a friend's two kids, who went "hook, line and sinker" for a 302 with smoke and choo choo, a tank car . . . hopper, caboose. an oval of fFlyer track and a small transformer. "I wish everyone on this list," he says, "could have seen the looks on these kids faces." How about that for market research? These kids went for a steam loco, not a diesel. No wonder Burger says "That is what we need for a starter kit." I suspect that we often overlook or forget the fascination of the side-rod action of a steamer. I also noted, back in June, that even the good prices we enjoy today "are beyond starter-set range because of detail and "extras," which also make models a bit fragile. Starter models, I went on, must be fairly child-proof. I then pointed out that Gilbert made them so (and cut costs) by casting on some parts. Why not, I argued, leave these off altogether? Kids wouldn't miss them and modellers could add them. Now along comes LARSPAINTR. answering the question "Does a model need to be of same detail level as a good scale RTR model?" by saying "No, but how bout a superdetailing kit?" It's gratifying to learn that even if I'm out in left field I'm not alone. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5425	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: More from the same seller

The guy with the 371 for $1243 and the 18B for $305 also has a CB&Q side dump car, 919, that is up to $163.52. Apparently he had a load of Flyer for sale, but all his auctions are closed, save this one, so unless you know the item # you can't search them for signs of shilling. All of his stuff goes out without a reserve, starts at $1 or $2 and builds through 40 or more bids to unbelievable highs, with a final snipe for a few dollars more than the consecutive bidder. Chris Zizzo -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA <findit@...> To: busy-boy <busy-boy@...> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 10:03 AM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] 371 >Chris, > >What is the deal with this engine.....I must be special ....all my AF >engines are remote control.....I guess I will take my platform >apart...and put it up on ebay and retire....I saw this yesterday and >could not beleive it.....this guy also has a 18B for over >$300.00.....Jeff > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5426	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: 371

Hi all, You also have to look at his other recent auctions, a 336 @$1,143, an 18B @ $380, a 970 @ $178 and note the same jump and usually the same two top bidders. I have already posted info on this to ebay's investigative department, as soon as word comes back, which may take a week, I will let you know what they tell me. EBay doesn't want fraud happening on their site either, they are probably more upset with it than we are! Of course there is always the possibility that there are two collectors out there with bottomless pits of money, and they are competing with each other!! "So, XX thinks he's gonna get this one, well, I'll show him!" S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5427	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: 371 on e-bay

>Isn't the seller allowed to make one bid? No, they stopped allowing this a while back. Also, has anyone contacted Ebay about this bidder and what you suspect? They will look into it. =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5428	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: 371

David Dewey wrote: >You also have to look at his other recent auctions, a 336 @$1,143, an 18B @ >$380, a 970 @ $178 and note the same jump and usually the same two top >bidders. I have already posted info on this to ebay's investigative >department, as soon as word comes back, which may take a week, I will let >you know what they tell me. EBay doesn't want fraud happening on their site >either, they are probably more upset with it than we are! > Of course there is always the possibility that there are two collectors >out there with bottomless pits of money, and they are competing with each >other!! "So, XX thinks he's gonna get this one, well, I'll show him!" David: I guess so. I wrote this message to the guy: ______________________________________________________ >>Are you bidding up your own auctions using e-mail aliases? > >>No one is lucky enough to sell a 371 Flyer diesel for over $1200 when it is >>worth about $300. (The 375 is the rare one). Then you sell an 18B >>transformer for over $300 when the 30B, it's big brother, can be bought in >>mint condition at any show for $150. > >>Are you that lucky? Who is revicam (dmaciver@...), the last minute >>high bidder on both these auctions? Is this a shill? > >>A lot of people on the trains and Flyer lists are asking these questions. >>If you are operating a scam to jack your prices, we will shut you down. > >>Chris Zizzo _______________________________________________________ He wrote me back: _______________________________________________________ >And if I'm not, I'll shut YOU down. > >I will send a copy of this to revicam---I have NO IDEA WHO HE/SHE IS---and if >he wants to get acquainted, that will be his decision. > >Personally, I am not a train person, other than I think a model railroad >layout is really neat to behold. Before I set about to sell the magnificent >collection I happened upon while buying a coin collection, I wanted to build >a layout myself--but my wife wouldn't let me (the space involved). If there >is a Mrs. Jerk (your spouse), maybe you know how that can go. I thought if I >were lucky, the 371 (just a GORGEOUS piece) could fetch 500+ bucks. The >336, maybe 700, if I were lucky. The transformer, I thought would go at the >$82 level, but it reached that with quite a bit of time left. Locally, a >friend of mine, whom I didn't know likes model trains, expressed an interest >in it and said he'd have given me $95 for it, had he known I had it. I came >home from a coin show, when was it? Sat. or Sun. nite, and it was at $305!!! >You think you were blown away?? All I can compare it to, and it's apples >vs. oranges, is coin auctions. When an astonishing collection hits the >auctions block, such as Edward Trompeter's collection of Proof Gold or Buddy >Ebsen's unbelievable collection back in 1987, you very often have to just >throw out the price guides. I sat next to a guy at the Ebsen sale who bid >$4,700 for a coin that "sheeted" at $1400. I thought he was on mushrooms. >He wasn't. He needed cash two and half years later, and he sold it for $6000 >to a dealer. Maybe you should remember that price guides, no matter whose or >what commodity, are just that...guides. They are not pricelists for someones >inventory. Greenberg's for instance does not buy/sell trains. The free >market determines the prices and I just stood by. I do know this, the >photographer I hired did his job. Good imaging sells. > >I am sorry you feel as you do, and I will notify ebay myself with your email >to me, a copy to revicam. If they think it is improper, they can quash the >auctions I ran or we can re-run them. No money has come in, and I haven't >shipped anything. > >This is really unbelievable. ______________________________________________________ Maybe this guy is the real thing. If he is, then e-Bay is a lot scarier than any of us has imagined. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5429	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Fw: Possible Fraud

I sent that e-bay seller this follow-up. > >Mr. Bauer: >If these auctions went as you said they did, then the only thing that is >improper are the shots you have taken at me. But I do understand why you >took them. > >As a train collector and operator and a member of several organizations and >mail lists, as well as a user of e-Bay, I feel duty bound to stick my nose >in when I suspect fraud. This was a suspicious situation. Look at the >bidding histories. > >Collectors with such financial resources don't need to skyrocket bids for >unseen items when there are so many places to buy these items cheaper and >actually handle them prior to purchase. This is York week. In York, >Pennsylvania this week, the largest train meet in the world, akin to car >collecting's Hershey show, is underway. Dozens of prime examples of the >trains you just sold will be available at a fraction of the price you >received. Many will be Mint examples complete with original packaging. I >don't begrudge you your profits, I merely looked skeptically at what >appeared to be improper. > >If you were a fraud, we would move to stop you. It is silly of you to say >that if you were not a fraud, you would stop us. Why? If you are honest, >aren't we both on the same side? Perhaps, to you, I seemed a jerk. You're >entitled to that opinion, but my in-your-face approach got the reaction I >needed. A crook might have responded differently. I am not the only one >who asked e-Bay to investigate. Several other collectors have e-mailed me >that they did the same. Some claim to have written you, probably in a more >accusatory tone than I. > >I agree with you. This is unbelievable. The prices you got are truly >unbelievable. No one believes them. But if they are proper, you collect a >windfall, and you have my congratulations. > >Chris Zizzo > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5430	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Tonka Toys!

Target stores has a line of diecast vehicles in approx 1/64 scale made by Tonka. 99 cents each. I got a mini-van painted for "Ocean Gear" surf and scuba equipment, a black Hummer, a '56 (Ford?) pick-up and a Mercedes SUV. There are 50 in the set, but many are undersized trucks. There is also a box of 10, but about 4 are unusable for the same reason. Priced right, though. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5431	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: More from the same seller

> but all his auctions are closed, save this one, so unless you know the > item # you can't search them for signs of shilling. You can look at his closed auctions by going to the search page, going to the seller section, and checking the all button in the completed options box. Also, after a regular word search there is a link for searching for the same words in the completed auctions. I did completed auction searches for some of his bidders,(passauf27@..., storeslive.com, and tylerb@...), and found that by a strange coincidence they only bid on his items! Ebay's help says to email safeharbor@... if there is any evidence of shilling, so I sent them the information. =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5432	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Product Review - 3 Diecast Buses from Llillian Vernon

Hello all, I received my 3 diecast buses from Lillian Vernon today and they are nicely done. First the school bus: it is I believe a model based on the International school bus seen all over this country, paint job and detailing are nice, the entrance doorway is a scale 30" wide and 6' tall, the rear emergency door 36" wide and 4'3" high, it has a flip out stop sign on the driver side and both doors can be opened, molded clear plastic safety, head and brake lights. Secondly the the two older looking buses: they are based on an older stlye British bus from around the 1940's-50's, I believe. They too are nicely painted and detailed, the left side entrance door is a scale 30" wide and 6'6" high, molded front and tail lights. These last two buses are really nifty and when placed beside my US vehicles look right at home. The total cost including shipping was $17.73, that makes three diecast buses for less then $6.00 each. I am very pleased with them and recommend them to all, even the nit-pickers. Lillian Vernon's telephone number to order is 1-800-285-5555 and the item number is 930R00G5.(I do not own any stock in the Lillian Vernon Company) Later, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5433	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: NEW DEPT 56 TRAIN?

Dear Glen, The On30 Bachman set was not scale. They too shortend the passenger cars just like AC did a few decades ago. Don T. Glenn Ritter wrote: > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > > Dear S Gaugers, > > I haven't seen this "New" Dept 56 train yet > but it sounds like last years Bachman > On30 set which listed for $259.95 and by > years end discounters were selling it for > $150. That one was true "O" narrow gauge > scale not "S". > > >From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > >Subject: New trains > > >Dear 1/64th. Scale Size People: > > >You have a new train to ride. I saw and handled it today and it is > >wonderful. > > >The engine is an old-time eight-wheeler (2-6-0) with tender. It burns coal. > >It is a narrow gauger. It comes with 2 coaches and a combination > >mail/baggage. Headlight and coaches are lit. Scale knuckle (fixed) > >couplers in frame pockets. Plenty of space to convert to standard gauge "S" > >trucks but regauging the loco will doubtless have its difficulties. > >Transformer and loop of roadbedded HO track are included. Highly detailed, > >beautiful scaling and far better proportions than the Flyer 4-4-0 sets > >(which were really narrow gauge O). > > >Dept. 56, makers of all those ceramic houses, finally got the hint that HO > >was just too small. > > >It is lovely and it runs quite well. Price $270.00 complete. A tad high. > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Ask about the Fall Get-Together September 24th, 25th & 26th South Amboy, NJ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5434	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: NEW DEPT 56 TRAIN?

Hi Don, It is called semantics. That is the study of words and how they affect us. General Semantics is almost a religion of saying that nothing is what it seems. Well my point being that scale operators last year told me that the On30 by Bachman was more "O" scale and definately no where near "S". I thought the cars were closer to "S" standard gauge than Gilbert's Franklin set. Glenn Don Thompson wrote: > Dear Glen, > The On30 Bachman set was not scale. They too shortend the passenger cars > just like AC did a few decades ago. > Don T. > > Glenn Ritter wrote: > > > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > > > > Dear S Gaugers, > > > > I haven't seen this "New" Dept 56 train yet > > but it sounds like last years Bachman > > On30 set which listed for $259.95 and by > > years end discounters were selling it for > > $150. That one was true "O" narrow gauge > > scale not "S".

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5435	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Train clubs in Huston

I will be traveling to Huston the first week of November. Does anyone know of any S-Gauge clubs in the area or anything that might be of interest there to see? Thanks in advance

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5436	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Re: More from the same seller

In a message dated 10/13/99 10:48:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, busy-boy@... writes: << ll his auctions are closed, save this one, so unless you know the item # you can't search them for signs of shilling. >> Actually you can there is a search mechanism for completed auctions in the last 30 days.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5437	From: Richard	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Dept56 "Nessie"

Hi all Do I take from lack of verification that the reported "new trains" in S are the On30 set?? or are they as illusive as our Scottish legend. Is there indeed a new set?? Got all excited there for a moment!! I got tothinking that if you were to go the way of an Authentic "S scale loco and set but running on HO gear....for me an intersting choice ( though it has obvious manufacturing drawbacks in terms of cost) would be an EBT mike. these would have to be one of the biggest "slimmers" around and transposing the loco into standard gauge would present many a kitbashing opportunity. Unlike many the boiler/body of the loco would not look too out of place on standard guage. Off to take my meds ......I driver,two drivers,three drivers...... >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5438	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: cowland store with 1/64 vehicles

just got back from the beginning of our move to westfield, vt and our local store (gas,groceries,newspapers and ammo) has a line of NEAT made in china brand cars from the 50's in 1/64 for $3 apiece-54 corvette, generic vw beetle, 356 porsche ragtop, 57-ish ford pickup. WOW!! if any list members are from that area, e-mail me-we're having S and Standard set up for Christmas, and the chance at meeting another flyer head out there in cow and moose country!!!!!! gonna love it-no more crack heads on our lawn, no more hookers on our street-gee, i'm missing it already!!!! TINPLATE RULES!!!-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5439	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/13/1999
Subject: Fw: Possible Fraud

You guys should read this. It's the second reply I got from that dealer, Tim Bauer. Never mind some of his strong language, he probably earned the right to use it. Read it instead for the insight you get re: the other side of the e-Bay coin. It's a real eye opener. Two to go, Chris Zizzo -----Original Message----- From: TBauer6194@... <TBauer6194@...> To: busy-boy@... <busy-boy@...> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 1999 2:02 PM Subject: Re: Possible Fraud >Sir: I sincerely apologize for the "shots". I am a professional: in & out >of the coin business. Maybe, if I explain to you my experiences with these >trains--the real innocents here--you can understand MY in-your-face counter >email to you. > >As much as I love old, neat, things, they aren't digestible. Furthermore, >they take up space (if I had a dollar for every time I stubbed my toe on the >coal loader I just sold---for $600, by the way and Greenbergs has it at >$255), I would not have needed to auction the stuff. My Greenbergs is a >1998 copy. > >When I wound up with these trains, I asked certain dealer friends of mine who >deal a lot in exonumia--guys I trust--if they had this stuff, what they'd do >with it and/or to whom they'd offer it. A buddy of mine in San Jose (I don't >blame him, 'cause the guy he referred me to is a schmuck), put me in touch >with a dealer of trains. I schlepped the entire collection to his lair and >let him have 1st shot at it. That was last Summer (1998). He figured, and >doodled, and grunted, and coughed, punched a calculator a few times, >scratched his chin, grunted and mumbled again, scratched his ear, punched his >calculator again.....and offered me $1,500 for the whole @#$%! collection. I >did not punch him, as I was tempted to, but rather, I thanked him, re-crated >the stuff, went home, and watched a movie with my wife and daughter. > >In Folsom, there is a street with a bunch of antique shops. One place has >trains---in really cheezy condition. Dreck! I showed the proprietor a >couple of the nice, but less expensive cars. He asked me to come back when >he was sober. I returned three days later. He wasn't impressed at all. He >said, "Why don't you consign the stuff to me. I don't have any money, but >maybe I can sell it for you." I declined. I showed it to another train >dealer. He offered me $800--for everything--all that was on ebay, and more >stuff I did not run. Next, a coin dealer "friend" of mine said he has the >"ultimate buyer" for my trains. A guy who is a hobbyist/dealer who will pay >"all the money and then some". I left the trains with my friend for two >days. The ultimate buyer's offer: $400. > >NOW, that hasn't got a damned thing to do with you, BUT it sent me the >message that if it isn't stealable, train dealers aren't going to pay >anything for it. While my auctions were live, train dealers were emailing >bidders in my auctions...insulting them; calling them "fucking assholes"; >idiots, frauds, etc. One bidder told me that he was dropping out, as he was >getting scared of the vicious emails. The auctions were still going on, Mr. >Zizzo. That is a violation of ebay, at least I think it is. The easiest >merchadise to bad-mouth is that which you don't own--in other words, somebody >else's goods. My priority is and was to get this stuff out from under my >feet, off my desk, out of my closets, out of my storage locker, and to new >homes where a buff can enjoy it. $400 wasn't enough. $800 wasn't enough. >$1500 wasn't enough. As dumb as I may look, I knew that much. One >high-bidder on some stuff that brought in my opinion, more $$ than I could >believe, has a heart condition and he just couldn't stand the insults. I >don't know what the hell he is going to do. He said he can't get to shows >and shops, and this seemed to be a way to buy what he'd been looking for a >long time. I haven't heard back yet from revicam, but he and I don't have >any relationship, friendship, or acquaintance with each other. In an >auction, it is the essence of the free market. Maybe in the relaxed >environment of one's own home or office, there is more comfort spending more >money than in the stressful environment of a show where dealers with smarmier >than thou attitudes can make the collector feel like they are getting fucked. > I don't know. I am not a thought monitor. Like I said, if ebay wants, I'll >run the stuff again. I may run it on Amazon.com as they have been schmoozing >me for my coin business. I feel it is wrong to harangue bidders of an >auction while that auction is still "live". I have told bidders that; I've >told ebay that; and I have told harrassers that. Now, I am telling you that. > >Thank you for your time. Best of fortune to you. I'll let you know if any >bidders weenie out and together we can figure out why. If my stuff I think >is rare is common, as it SOUNDED like you were saying it is, maybe some >flakes were bidding to aggrandize their own material. What bothers me with >that is that there were 38 bids before I was halfway done putting my lots in >auction and there were 673 bids I think it was in my auctions for my trains. >That isn't a bunch of flakes...that's a blizzard. > >Kindest regards, >Tim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5440	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: art vs. model RR, tinplate vs. scale?

Well its only 7:40 am and trash comes today so I should further clean basement some so I can have a working spot for my Ssssssstuff. However, as an artist I believe there might be some areas of art related to model RR. In other words, we are creating a world in miniature. As do artists of all breeds. The BIG question in artistic realism is- Where does realism start or stop, vs. artistic liscense? Or, one canot reproduce nature. So we are required to stop our efforts at some convenient point so we dont go crazy or spend our life on one piece until its perfect. Of course we are not talking non-objective or abstract art here? Anyway, in realistic art the artist simply creates an illusion of 'realism'. Carry this to the extreme and we realize we can never reproduce real thing, we are always limited by our skill, time, tools, etc. Likewise in model RR. We are creating an illusion of 'the real world' or a given era. So the given artist (RR-er) must limit his/her detailing. And they are the ones that decide on that limit- or are they!??? If I recall rightly, years ago I was happy to get my 322 Hudson with all its detail and smoke compared to my Lionel gunmetal streamliner 242 loco set with box couplers. The shiny AF journal boxes and link couplers didnt bother me much, till I saw the new knuckle couplers. I could still enjoy the train, but my mind said I should have this new fine realism (knuckle couplers that look and work Like Real). So its a choice, how much realism? And even with new locos and kits, how much realism? L. (wont he ebber shut up?) Hmmmmmmmmm Thought stuck me as I reviewed this idea. WHY do we, most of us anyway, LOVE those ole Standard Guage locos? Izzit cause they look like REAL TRAINS? hardly. Must be another reason. or WHY did/do we, most of us anyway, LOVE those AF Hudsons with shiny handrails and stantions, whitewalls, etc. Hmmmm indeed. WHY must we, many of us anyway, have choo choos that insist on looking Like Real? When we were satisfied with and still love a certain aura that some equipment has and which is NOT 'scale' ? ? ? ? Yet no one is creating 20's / 30's style trains or trainsets...as Walmart has Deco items by an international designer. Interesting.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5441	From: Steve Roche	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Painting steam engines

As a long time subscriber to the list I enjoy the discourse on the wide variety of subjects tackled here. Occasionally, a subject is beaten into the ground, but heck, thats a small price to pay. I am getting ready to repaint a 312AC in anticipation of the Christmas layout. Looking for tips on type of paint and whether to use some sort of clear overcoat. Any help would be appreciated. In regards to ebay, I discovered it almost 2 years ago and love it. In the beginning you could find deals that were far superior to the train shows and/or local dealers. When prices shot up above market I backed off considerably(or maybe it was due to the wife questioning all the checks made to people she didn't know.) There are still some deals to be had, last month I found a 322 SIT for $78.00. It needed a little TLC but that was mentioned in the description. With a few hours work (which part of the hobby is working on them) I will have a pretty nice piece. Ebay has brought trains to the masses. Through my ebay postings I have met several local operators who are either beginning this passion or are reviving childhood memories. A couple of them are going crazy on ebay, over paying for readily available pieces. In response to the 371 issue, mine is available at a bargain prive of $1000.00. Something does smell fishy. I recently listed several very desirable items with fair reserves and had few sell. Last but not least, while this may not be the proper forum (if not I apologize) but I have a 350 Royal Blue in need of a tender. If anyone has or knows of a tender that they could part with please let me know. Paint condition does not matter as I will be repainting. Well gotta leave to make a 3 hour drive.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5442	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Digest Number 402

Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> >Subject: Fw: Possible Fraud > >You guys should read this. It's the second reply I got from that dealer, >Tim Bauer. Never mind some of his strong language, he probably earned the >right to use it. Read it instead for the insight you get re: the other >side of the e-Bay coin. It's a real eye opener. > >Two to go, >Chris Zizzo Chris and list, I am too old of a fuddy duddy to pay the prices bid on ebay. I do look at and marvel at the "deceptive" descriptions and lousy photos attached to junk. Then some nice stuff comes along that goes for a real price (371 stuff). It makes me wish I had plunked down the $150 to buy the same 25 years ago or the $50 to buy a like new Gabe in the box (it was way over priced at the time). Over 10 years ago I attended a small auction in a very small (200 pop.) country town in S.Ohio and watched a DDuck hand car, in box, auction for just over $1200 when the book for like new was under $800. The item had set in water, one side of the green roof was rusty, DD's white rear end had been repainted, the box was badly water marked. Other than that, it was "like new". Even I bid it to $800, but quit above that. Three people bid it over $1200. The lady who bought it was a toy dealer and said she had a customer who would pay her $1800 for the thing! If that kind of thing can go on at a small auction with a crowd limited to say 100 miles of the location, imagine the $1800 buyer and four or five like him/her on the internet from all over the country at the same time. What do you get, high prices from people most of whom likely don't know there is a price guide, have never seen a price guide and don't care about a price guide. They like what they see and bid it per their means. There easily could be "condition" deception practiced by some sellers, but it is up to the buyer to confirm what is being purchased before the money changes hands. Anyone who does not is the fool in "a fool and his money soon part". My opinion is the photog on the subject set (371) was very good and the bidders worked each other. However, it will be interesting to see if the same bidders reappear as sellers and items reappear at lower prices. The real unfortunate thing for the seller and buyer on ebay is that the bids are not instant and responsive to each other in seconds as at a live auction. The prices could then go even higher. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5443	From: Andy McBride	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: art vs. model RR: tinplate vs. scale?

Late last night fellow list member Paul Schneider and I were running trains on our club Flyer layout. The layout is a sprawling affair that calls the floor of my attic home. Paul is just getting his own layout started at his home and we we're discussing, among other things, how ridiculously sharp AFL curve track is. Paul loves Flyer but he also appreciates prototypical appearance and operation so he was leaning towards wider radius curves. After we got to running trains, and Paul was concentrating on lining up the IC "Meat" train through River Junction before the scheduled arrival of the Super Chief off the Tidewater Division, we noticed those sharp curves disappeared. Once we had trains roaming the system and accessories lit up and all the rest that makes Flyer cool we didn't notice individual imperfections such as sharp curves, or for that matter, that those curves were on the floor lacking ballast and other scenery amenities. I believe that a operating model railroad is indeed a piece of art. Like any art form it should communicate a feeling, or an a idea. When I started building the club Flyer layout I wanted to create a "classic" Flyer railroad of a bygone era. I wasn't interested in recreating a portion of a real railroad or a specific part of the county. Rather I wanted to have something that was just plain fun as God and Gilbert had intended. Looming above sections of our Flyer floor empire is the benchwork for my HO scale railroad. For that layout I want to recreate the South Side of Chicago Illinois in the late 1950's. When it's done I want people to really feel like they've been in Chicago. Because I want to communicate a different idea with that layout I have built it in a completely different way. Unlike the Flyer layout I've spent a great deal of time concentrating on prototype track work and proper scenery details. With both layouts the end result of how the viewer/operator feels after viewing the layout as a whole is the goal. Paul had a great time running trains last night (except when he ran a Pacific smack into the side of a pair of NKP GP's at Grand Junction) so I can assume that the addition of wider curves and scenery would not have increased the amount of fun he had on the layout (on the other hand maybe I should get a pair of semaphores at Grand Junction). Though the HO scale layout will have a much higher level of detail I still keep in mind that all the work I put into it should be towards my goal. Therefore I will still skip many details because they won't significantly impact the scene when it's completed. For example I'd love to have interiors in all of my structures but as a person watches a train pass through the warehouse district chances are they wouldn't notice those interior details. By skipping the interior work it allows me to have enough time to work on the items that the viewer would notice such as the proper locomotive in the proper paint scheme pulling that train. Again, I do think that a model railroad is a form of art and like any art form one should have an idea of what they want to communicate when they create it. I think too often model railroaders stall when they lose sight of their goal and get overwhelmed by making sure everything is an exact duplicate of the prototype. So yes, one does need to have a line drawn in the sand as to where they stop adding details. Where does that line get drawn? It depends entirely on the goal of the creator. Andy McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5444	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: NEW TRAIN SET?

Last night my wife, Lin, and I went shopping at a discount club. They had an HO set called "Thunder" Freight set by Life Like trains with all the plastic signs and stuff, track, transformer, etc. for........................$29.95. The box says American Product. Well can we beat that? HA! Today I stopped at the local hardware store as they were setting up a large layout with mountains and a waterfall. Lower level is "G", mid level is "HO" and top of mountain is "N". I asked about "O" and they said it doesn't sell. The set up person said "S" would be the right size and a big seller since most "HO" doesn't last the season with children. Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5445	From: Nerker, Robert	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: advice from the experts

Thanks David, Chuck, Roger for advice on brush soldering and alco gears. This is a great way to share experience in a great hobby! Bob Nerker

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5446	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: dissastisfied customer

Here is a person who used the item description to express his dissatisfaction with a 334DC repair job done by a well known American Flyer parts dealer: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=176104615 I heard some kid at an AF parts booth at a train show tell his partner that he was interested in getting into fixing AF trains. I wondered why any sane person would want to do that. I don't see how you could make any money unless you charged by the hour. I've spent days working on a single engine only to have it croak after once around the track, and then it's back to the roundhouse for another long session. And then if you guarantee your work, the customer would be bringing it back after it dies again and you'd be stuck fixing it for free. =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5447	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: dissatisfied customer

I had a problem with this dealer many years ago and have refused to deal with him since. Fortunately, it only cost me $20. The 334DC is known for having tender floors that disintegrate from white metal disease, caused by impurities in the casting metal. The huge weight of the speaker assembly doesn't help. One problem with large cast metal repro parts such as the challenger tender floor, in which a mold is made from an original, is that the resulting casting is smaller than the original , in this case by approximately 4 %. Therefore many of the screw and rivet holes have to be relocated slightly. This can be done using a round needle file to extend the holes as ovals in the proper outward direction. There are almost 20 holes in a repro challenger tender floor but the metal is soft so it's not too difficult. I have done OK repairing trains for others. Yes, I do charge by the hour, and have found that people appreciate good work. Repairing Flyer is much trickier than repairing Lionel, but with experience one learns to get it running reliably in most cases. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5448	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Which Track?

Dear Fellow S-ers: Okay, let's tap the vast collective wisdom and experience on this list. I'll finally be commencing construction of my home layout soon, and I'd like to hear your candid opinions about which hi-rail track I should use. There are pros and cons to each type, and I'm asking for your actual, personal experience (not necessarily what you've heard from others). I'm going to need approximately 200 feet of track. My current plan also includes about 23 switches (turnouts). I have sufficient AF straight and curved sectional, along with the switches, to complete the plan. Most of my curves are "broad" (at least for tinplate), being 28" radius or larger, but I have planned two 19-1/2" radius curves on my two reverse loops. I have some grades, 2.5% or less. However, I'm considering flex track instead of the AF. I love the look of AM's code .148, as well as the nickel-silver SHS S-Trax (155#). But, considering the amount of track I'll need, it can be rather pricey. Another consideration is the turnouts. Obviously, my AF won't mate with either of those types of track., and 23 new switches could set me back quite a bit. I've looked at GarGraves steel (wooden ties) flex, which is certainly more affordable (no more than $3.40 for a 36" section, and maybe less--still gotta shop around). It also offers the advantage of mating with my AF switches and AF operating accessories. But it's a round rail, not flat, which may affect my ability to pull up the grades. And how well does the track stay in gauge around curves over the years? In a perfect world (i.e., if I were rich), I'd probably opt for AM or SHS. But if I go with GarGraves because of economics, I don't want to regret my decision down the road, rip it all up, and buy the expensive stuff anyway. That's certainly not economical. What is your counsel? Thanks, friends. I sure enjoy reading all the comments in this (sometimes dysfunctional, but always interesting) little family of ours. YourS, John Eichmann Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho jeichmann@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5449	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Re: dissastisfied customer

Scott & all, I do do (oh bother, I'm going to ignore that!) repairs for others, as a "hobby support activity"--ie: I enjoy it, and it helps bring in a little extra for my train spending. I would be better off finacially doing regular work, but this is more fun! Yep, you can fix for hours, and sometimes just miss something! That is why I have a repair sheet, with test results so the customer knows what his/her loco was doing when I finished. Tests include reverse unit cycling (12 cycles, no errors is my test), Load reading at voltage, and RPMS around a test track. I also include ohm readings of the fields, armatures, coils, etc. (well, not the light bulbs!) I also have a check list for things like loose driver tires (this mostly so I don't miss something!--yet I still sometimes do). I know when I've been to shows, I have overheard others say, "Oh, his engines run!" Well, uh, yeah, aren't they supposed to?? But I still considered it a great compliment. Since this is a hobby, I seldom have more than a few repairs around at once, except near the holidays, and oftentimes right after. But then I haven't pushed it (advertising, etc.) after all, it is just a hobby! Well, back to work, Have FUN with your trains! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5450	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Re: Which Track?

John, On my most recent layout I used AM code148 sectional track and switches and it is an excellent product. As the switches come they can be used for Hi-rail or Flyer. I adapted the swithces to allow the use of scale and hi-rail wheel sets, but can not operate Flyer wheel sets , no problem for me as the few Flyer pieces I run have been converted to SHS trucks and couplers. My layout was small 8' X 8' and I have reconfigured it to 6' X 10' and will be changing over to the new SHS track as soon as my order arrives at the local train store. I bought a box of 10" straight track at the Spring Spree and this track is outstanding. SHS can be easily joined to AF track and switches by using the SHS #00393 Connectors,AF Track Compatible rail joiners. I have tried them on an old piece of Flyer and they work. You can also use these connectors to hook up to Gargraves track and switches, the Gargraves track needs to be shimmed up to match the height of the SHS track which is the same as the height of AF track in rubber roadbed. Gargraves rail does not have a rounded rail head, it has the same shape as Flyer track, "T RAIL SHAPED TRACK, JUST LIKE THE REAL RAILROADS", as the old Flyer ads use to say. I have been driving myself nuts over the last eight years going from Flyer to Gargraves back to Flyer, then handlaid code 100 and code 125, on to AM code 148, laying cork roadbed, make a change, destroy the cork road bed, to ballast or not to ballast,#@&%?+*!!!!! My prayers have been answered with the new SHS, realistic looking track, small rail, ballasted, sectional, take it apart, put it back to gether again( sounds like I almost went back to Flyer track). Seriously if you are looking for a more realistic track with all of the ease of use of the original Flyer, I would recommend selling off the Flyer track and reinvesting in the new SHS track. If you ever decided to go full scale you can still use the SHS track. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5451	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: foam core board

For my holiday floor layout this year, I am considering building an upper level of 1/4" thick foam core board held together by hot glue, following an article in MR some time ago. I would like to know if anyone on this list has experience using this stuff. Is it strong enough to hold up Flyer trains without a wooden frame? Is hot glue effective? Can foam core be curved? Can it be airbrushed with latex paint cut with denatured alcohol? Is there anything else I should know about it? Any suggestions (brick paper, carving, etc. ) on how to make it look like retaining walls, etc.? I plan to do some testing soon, but would appreciate any good advice on this. Thanks, Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5452	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: LARSPAINTR's musings

lars, you have missed something wonderful in the last 6 years-Standard Gauge and 0 tinplate are alive, well and growing-as new production items. MTH (rumoured again and again to be ready to hop into S) have been reproducing engines, rolling stock and accessories for Std and 0 gauge and this year are offering the Blue Comet set, Hellgate Bridge, 200 and 500 std rolling stock, 2 0 steamers, the huge L roundhouse, a #9 electric outline engine and 800 series 0 freighters. i have their 392E, State set, numerous 200 and 500 freights and can tell you that the stuff is beautiful. they are planning Flyer and Ives wide gauge repros, but no dates/models have been announced yet. so get to MTH's web site and have a look- if anyone can get an interest in Flyer repro going, it's MTH. hmm-maybe the Franklin set was a little off-how about a Circus set? mike wolf, are you tuned in?-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5453	From: Bruce Crosby	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: A special question on Big L

Hi: I subscribe to many of onelist's lists.(lists dealing with train stuff!!!) I for the most part am an "HO" modeler with an interest in AF, because of a very close friends AF Collection and Layout, that's why I've been a subscriber of this list. I dabble a little in O27 Lionel cause that's what I had as a kid!! Now, why did I post to this list???........I would like to know if any of you AF Guys know of any list or a onelist dealing with Big L?? Maybe it's the wrong question to ask of you AF Fans!!! (BGrin), but, thought I'd give it a try!!! Please E-Mail me direct with any comments or ideas......to save AF Bandwidth!! E-Mail: abcrosby@... Thanks for indulging me!!! Bruce Crosby Hutchinson, MN

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5454	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Re: foam core board

Foam core is one of my favorite modeling substances. I use it for the sides of buildings that I scratchbuild. It also makes great walls. You can easily score it to make bricks or stones. I like to use dried up ball point pens and a straightedge to do the scoring. Foamcore cuts nicely, but you need to keep a sharp edge on the x-acto or utility knife or the cut gets bumpy. I have used latex wall paint and acrylics on it and the paint adheres well. It takes things glued to it just fine. I even use it for fascia. If you are careful, you can curve it. The only thing I'm not sure about is it's strength for holding up trains like AF, etc. Don't think I would trust it for that without some kind of bracing. Hope this helps. Roy >From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > >>I would like to know if anyone on this list has experience using this >stuff. Is it strong enough to hold up Flyer trains without a wooden frame? >Is hot glue effective? Can foam core be curved? Can it be airbrushed with >latex paint cut with denatured alcohol? Is there anything else I should >know about it? Any suggestions (brick paper, carving, etc. ) on how to >make it look like retaining walls, etc.? > >I plan to do some testing soon, but would appreciate any good advice on >this. Thanks, Tom Jarcho >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5455	From: Richard	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: foamcore

This stuff is pretty good for lots of things (lightening the pocket especially) If you utilise a grid, sort of like a vertical lattice and lay the foam core on top ( grid can be foamcore as well) then its strong enough to stand on...is that strong enough. Like any material it has its pros and cons. If anyone is unsure of this idea, I'll sketch it and upload it. You can make a bride of matches strong enough to stand on, if you obey the laws of design...same with foam core....ever noticed the criss cross grid made of card board in some packaging...again strong enough to stand on. Like a lot of materials it is quite good in compression and strain, but lousy in moment (but not bad for its weight). cheers >:~)) I'll go now you're all confused !!!! Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5456	From: Tom Young	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: 371 auction

Hey all you train-wealthy S-Gaugers We have another RARE 371 up for auction on E-Bay. The bid starts at $1500.00 and includes 4 cars. 1954 SUPER RARE "371 DEISEL LOCOMOTIVE" (SET) Item #181152424 Gotta go shine up me Diesels

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5457	From: Cheri221@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Fwd: item on eBay web site item#176104615: 334DC " WARNING PLEASE...

Interesting warning...and worth passing on. I saw this item for sale at eBay, the world's largest personal trading community, and thought that you might be interested. Title of item: 334DC " WARNING PLEASE READ" Seller: rmyers8710@... Starts: 10/05/99, 04:08:03 PDT Ends: 10/16/99, 04:08:03 PDT Price: Currently $300.00 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=176104615 Item Description: 334DC " WARNING PLEASE READ" THIS ENGINE WAS DAMAGED IN SHIPMENTTO A CUSTOMER. IT WAS SENT TO THE R.F. GIRADINA CO. IN MARCH AND WAS RETURNED IN OCTOBER. $300.00 DOLLARS OUT OF MY POCKET TO REPAIR.WHEN IT ARRIVED BACK IT HAD A REPRO TENDER FRAME WITH ONLY TWO SCREWS HOLDING THE BODY TO THE BASE AND THE ELECTRIC MOTOR FALLING OUT.THE ENGINE FRAME IS STILL BROKEN. IF YOU WANT AN ENGINE FIXED DO NOT USE THIS COMPANY I'M SELLING THIS ENGINE AS IS. MAYBE SOMEONE CAN USE IT FOR PARTS. Buyer to pay shipping/handling and insurance if desired.M.O OR CASHIERS CHECKS NEXT DAY SHIPPING. Please check out the other auctions we currently have running on eBay. TN. RESIDENCE 8.5% TAX This HTML automatically generated with AuctionAssistant from Blackthorne Software. Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5458	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/14/1999
Subject: Re: 371 We got 'em!!

Hi all, I just was notified by eBay that they have suspended timbauerrarecoins and passauf27@... because of our notification (well, acutally, the credited me, but it was everyone's postings that gave me enough clues to do something, so thank you all & congrats!). They couldn't find enough evidence against revicam to accuse that user of anything. Good job everyone! Now we will see if there are any reprecussions. I feel like we did something good, but I also feel like "big brother" I think I'm glad I'm not in law enforcement. Back to FUN with trains.... S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5459	From: bob walsh	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: Ebay

I was watching the action on ebay with those fraudulent bids going on too. Did you notice that the one bidder who was the high bidder on a couple of the auctions had given feedback to the seller about 4 days before he even bid on his items and that there was no item number attached to the feedback? Smells like a scam to me. http://cgi2.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=timbauerrarecoins Someone had mentioned some thing about the new Amtrack high speed commuter train and what I was wondering was if anyone knew where I could see some pictures or get the dimentions of it. I was thinking that I could possible use my Disney Monorail as the basis for building a model of the Amtrack train. The Monorail scales out to right around S scale. Oh, and thanks to the person who turned me on to the Krispy Kreme truck. I picked one up and it's pretty nice. Of course now I am addicted to the donuts. And whats worse is that they opened up a Krispy Kreme here on campus so I can get my fix when ever the urge hits. Oh well, being healthy is over rated any way. Thanks. __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5460	From: John Simkovich	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: Painting Steam Locomotives

Hello Everyone, First of all I just want to say how much I enjoy reading your articals. I have a NYC Hudson locomotive that I am planning to restore to original status. Part of this restoration will be that I have to repaint the locomotive. I am experienced in painting locomotives that are made of plastic, but I was just wondering if I have to do anything special with the old dicast locomotive. Any replies or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Sincerely Conductor John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5461	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: eBay prices

In the 2 or so years I have been on eBay have watched the prices be good until about 8-12 months ago, about the time I started hearing ads and AOL had almost doubled in that time. Had been buying some old advertising, car parts, post cards and stuff for use in my art, but no trains. By Feb of this year prices where substantially higher, and realized the word was out and bargains would be far and few between. What it had become was a great place for all sorts of folks to unload the good and bad for market or better price. Sort of like a QVC for used stuff!!!!! Saves standing in line at estate sales in November cold anyway. And like QVC U can shop anytime of day or night in your underwear... All IMHO. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5462	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: eBay prices

In the 2 or so years I have been on eBay have watched the prices be good until about 8-12 months ago, about the time I started hearing ads and AOL had almost doubled in that time. Had been buying some old advertising, car parts, post cards and stuff for use in my art, but no trains. By Feb of this year prices where substantially higher, and realized the word was out and bargains would be far and few between. What it had become was a great place for all sorts of folks to unload the good and bad for market or better price. Sort of like a QVC for used stuff!!!!! Saves standing in line at estate sales in November cold anyway. And like QVC U can shop anytime of day or night in your underwear... All IMHO. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5463	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: WHICH TRACK?

For my own layout I chose Gargraves code 172 track since I only run Hi Rail. The Gargraves track is flat on top and mates perfectly with Gilbert track and switches. The Gargraves switches have too wide a radius so I used Gilbert switches which fit well with Gargraves but don't have a scale like appearance. Also I like the operating features of the Gilbert switches, dead to active sidings, etc. When I upgrade my layout, more to scale, I may go with AM Code 148 flextrack and AM switches on cork roadbed but for cost and appearance on a hirail layout I am pleased with Gargraves.I purchased Gargraves by the carton from our local dealer (support your local dealers). 150 lineal feet per carton for $150 in 1994. You can see my layout and some of our club's module at: http://members.xoom.com/northpenn_s/main.html. Our club is using code 148 flex track on it's modules. We are hand laying B & K switches with Code 148 track so we can run both scale and hi rail engines. Staying on NASG track, Glenn > From: "JOHN EICHMANN" <JEICHMANN@...> > Subject: Which Track? > > I'm going to need approximately 200 feet of track. My current plan also includes about 23 switches (turnouts). I have sufficient AF straight and curved sectional, along with the switches, to complete the plan. Most of my curves are "broad" (at least for tinplate), being 28" radius or larger, but I have planned two 19-1/2" radius curves on my two reverse loops. I have some grades, 2.5% or less. > > However, I'm considering flex track instead of the AF. I love the look of AM's code .148, as well as the nickel-silver SHS S-Trax (155#). But, considering the amount of track I'll need, it can be rather pricey. Another consideration is the turnouts. Obviously, my AF won't mate with either of those types of track., and 23 new switches could set me back quite a bit. > > I've looked at GarGraves steel (wooden ties) flex, which is certainly more affordable (no more than $3.40 for a 36" section, and maybe less--still gotta shop around). It also offers the advantage of mating with my AF switches and AF operating accessories. But it's a round rail, not flat, which may affect my ability to pull up the grades. And how well does the track stay in gauge around curves over the years? > > In a perfect world (i.e., if I were rich), I'd probably opt for AM or SHS. But if I go with GarGraves because of economics, I don't want to regret my decision down the road, rip it all up, and buy the expensive stuff anyway. That's certainly not economical. > > What is your counsel? Thanks, friends. I sure enjoy reading all the comments in this (sometimes dysfunctional, but always interesting) little family of ours. > > YourS, > John Eichmann > Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers > Boise, Idaho > jeichmann@... >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5464	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: What a bargain!

A full page ad in yesterday's Chicago Sun-Times: Train Factory Warehouse Sale NOTICE! 105 Piece Electric Train Sets Only $12 each. the body of the add describes them as "Limited Edition Collector Train Sets" "Children and adults alike will get hours of enjoyment as the super quit 1.5 volt motor effortlessly powers the cars over yards of high-tensile, scenic track." In a section labeled "Technical Specifications" we are told: Electrical - ultra efficient 1.5 Volt, self contained, maintenance free, bi-polar transduction motor Track System: interlocking, high tensile strength, expandable track with continuous loop and silent system technology, straight and quad interchanges etc. etc. All for $12 plus $4 S& H What a bargain! Quick, where's my checkbook? BTW: there is a picture of a locomotive with the name Lionel on it. In very small letters, in the smoke it says "compare to" -Roy Roy E. Plotnick Professor Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences University of Illinois at Chicago 845 W. Taylor St. Chicago, IL 60607 plotnick@... phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279 web page: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/plotnick.htm "The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May Alcott

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5465	From: HSJOBBINS@aol.com	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: Trackage : American Models .148

Those of you who have questioned upgrades for AF operating layouts, I suggest that all the good you have heard about American Models .148 is all true ! Don't make a half way step---- and the years and miles you'll put over any rails is a small part of the overall investment you'll be making in collectable, and new rolling stock you will be aquiring. I even run mixed trains with an AF PA- and 660/963 Passenger cars(5) powered with an American Models FB-2 to move all these AF pieces. So, mix or match, you'll be very happy with the .148 track and switches, I love the cork roadbed too. It's easy to work, and looks great even without added ballast.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5466	From: Don Abrams	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: Wish List

I'd like to see a S manufacturer provide us with steam loco kits like those that Bowser and MDC make for HO. Without really more than basic modeling skills you can get a loco running that looks pretty good. then you have the various levels of detailing and super detailing to add if you feel so inclined. I built an MDC 2-6-0 (HO) and was satisfied with the quality and performance. Cost was about $50. the plastic tender shell was decorated. All you had to do was paint the loco. I (gasp?) brush painted it. Not too bad! Sure wish this could be done in 'S.' The Bowser kits go for a bit more, but again, I'd love to be able to do 'S' kits like these. 2-8-2, 2-8-4, would be at the top of my want list with or without super detailing. Diesels? That's tougher. I guess F3's, but isn't someone going to do these within the next year? Here's one I would really drool for and have yet to see in ANY SCALE. The first EMD E's like the AT&SF and B&O had. I really get off on that long shovel nose. Just dreamin', please wake me when the above products become available! Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5467	From: S-Trains-owner@onelist.com	Date: 10/15/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5468	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: You can get anything you want at eBay restaurant....

OK, I'm showing my age by that musical mis-phrase, but thought we could use some levity here. This item is just the thing to take care of the anti-S crowd!! <G> Here's the note posted to me by a steam train friend Anyone who doesn't think eBay has EVERYTHING for sale, well, click on the link below . . . Click Here: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=182222275 (eBay item 182222275 (Ends 10/25/99, 12:12:25 PD) On to work, later!! S' David D. PS, don't forget, S-chat tomorrow evening!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5469	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: York show on the net LIVE!! Check this out!

Horde Layout in York, Pa. LIVE !!!! Use this URL listing http://www.nedcom.com/lionel/ This was just posted to the toytrains list. Have fun! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5470	From: Richard	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: York show

David Totally cool...and that from a scale guy!! Really gave a buzz to feel like I was participating , even if only passively . A new frontier has been brooched. A lot of fun. cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5471	From: Richard	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: Whole lot of shakin' going on!!

Guys Hope everone's OK.....7 seems lucky, but then I dont live in an earthquake area. good luck with the aftershocks cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5472	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: Word Wrap

Hey guys, Do you think you could set up your mail or messaging program so that the word wrap is turned ON? It is a pain to have to keep scrolling back and forth across the screen. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5473	From: Richard	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: Dept 56 set???

Guys Yhis in a response to the Dept 56 set from Christmas Cottage who seel the things...any one able to further clarify its 'scale" pedigree or otherwise?? <snip> To: Richard ----Yes , Dept. 56 has issued thde train set you asked about . It is #52710. We have the train set of 24 pieces, which includes steam locomotive, 3 cars oval track , transformer and 6 signs. The price is $250.00 plus shipping cost. Your message does not indicate where you live , therefore I can not give you an approximate cost for shipping. If you are interested , let us know--we accept VISA and MASTERCARD. Thank you for contacing The Christmas Cottage <snip> cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5474	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: Re: NEW DEPT 56 TRAIN?

I saw the set at York and it is the Bachman O narrow gauge, not S. Glenn Ritter wrote: > > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > > Dear S Gaugers, > > I haven't seen this "New" Dept 56 train yet > but it sounds like last years Bachman > On30 set which listed for $259.95 and by > years end discounters were selling it for > $150. That one was true "O" narrow gauge > scale not "S". > > >From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > >Subject: New trains > > >Dear 1/64th. Scale Size People: > > >You have a new train to ride. I saw and handled it today and it is > >wonderful. > > >The engine is an old-time eight-wheeler (2-6-0) with tender. It burns coal. > >It is a narrow gauger. It comes with 2 coaches and a combination > >mail/baggage. Headlight and coaches are lit. Scale knuckle (fixed) > >couplers in frame pockets. Plenty of space to convert to standard gauge "S" > >trucks but regauging the loco will doubtless have its difficulties. > >Transformer and loop of roadbedded HO track are included. Highly detailed, > >beautiful scaling and far better proportions than the Flyer 4-4-0 sets > >(which were really narrow gauge O). > > >Dept. 56, makers of all those ceramic houses, finally got the hint that HO > >was just too small. > > >It is lovely and it runs quite well. Price $270.00 complete. A tad high. > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5475	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: Re: Painting Steam Locomotives

I've had good luck after making sure the casting is clean and free of oil or grease. Any paint remaining after cleaning should be smoothed by having the edges sanded because the edges of old chips will otherwise show under the new coat. In fact, it's better to completely remove the paint if you can. I use spray paint from a can. My favorite color for locos is hot rod grey primer, a kind of a charcoal grey. John Simkovich wrote: > > From: "John Simkovich" <jps2102@...> > > Hello Everyone, First of all I just want to say how much I enjoy reading your articals. > I have a NYC Hudson locomotive that I am planning to restore to original status. Part of this restoration will be that I have to repaint the locomotive. I am experienced in painting locomotives that are made of plastic, but I was just wondering if I have to do anything special with the old dicast locomotive. > > Any replies or suggestions will be greatly appreciated. > > Sincerely > > Conductor John > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5476	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/16/1999
Subject: painting steam locomotives

Chusk Smith's advice is correct, as usual. If the original paint is very badly battered, you can strip a metal steam loco with a commercial paint stripper like zip strip. This will soften the paint so it can be scrubbed off with a stiff brush. Just soak and rinse it afterwards with dish detergent and many rinses of water so that all traces of stripper are removed before you repaint. Another color you might consider is Krylon #1613 semi-flat black. This is just slightly glossier and darker than Flyer loco black. It is a perfect match for Lionel loco black. Krylon is made with lacquer thinner and is very harsh on the lungs, so be sure to use it in a well ventilated work space. This Krylon color is a little soft and may get scratched during operating. If this happens, spray a little into the spray can cap, dip a q-tip into it, and touch up the damage. It won't show. Black is the most forgiving of colors. Paint stripper is nasty stuff too and one should use the proper plastic gloves with it and work on newspapers or some other surface that can be thrown out when you're finished. Good luck, Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5477	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/17/1999
Subject: Re: Word Wrap

Roger V. Petrella Jr. wrote: > > From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...> > > Hey guys, > > Do you think you could set up your mail or messaging program so that the word wrap is turned ON? It is a pain to have to keep scrolling back and forth across the screen. > > Roger Petrella > Franktown, CO > And while you are waiting for everyone to do it, you should be able to set a parm in your system to 'wrap long lines'. Under Netscape it is a selection of the VIEW pulldown. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5478	From: John Foley	Date: 10/17/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail

Hi Folks Well yesterday [saturday] I spoke to Scott from 3rd Rail at the TCA meet in york PA. He told me that they decided not to produce the Zephyr/Yankee, Mikados or anything in S for now. The reason given not enough reservations. Scott did not rule out anything in the future. John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5479	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/17/1999
Subject: Guinness loco

Has anyone identified the steam locomotive in the Guinness TV commercial? Is it the Flying Scotsman? A Canadian locomotive? Are more than one loco used? Thanks, Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5480	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/17/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, October 17, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5481	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/17/1999
Subject: Think Ahead

Roger Petrella wrote: >Do you think you could set up your mail or messaging program so that the word wrap is turned >ON? It is a pain to have to keep scrolling back and forth across the screen. Thank goodness your message wasn't any longer, Roger. I hate side-scrolling too! I guess you got a graphic demonstration that it is not the posting parties mail preferences, but some glitch in One-List. My messages occasionally do it too, without any changes on my part. It is damnably annoying and so computer typical. But it really ticks you off when a guy writes a novel and you are sliding back and forth losing your place. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5482	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Unsubscribe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5483	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Flyer TTOF

Did Lionel ever re-release a flat with AF Trainsn tractor trailers on it similar to either the 956 or 24550? I've seen other recent TTOF's that look just like this but not with the American Flyer Trains "wrapper" on the trailers. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5484	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer TTOF

They released a B&O, Wabash and SP that I am sure of. Trailers and cars were different railroads than old AF. David_Horn@... wrote: > > From: David_Horn@... > > Did Lionel ever re-release a flat with AF Trainsn tractor trailers on it > similar to either the 956 or 24550? I've seen other recent TTOF's that look > just like this but not with the American Flyer Trains "wrapper" on the > trailers. Thanks. > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5485	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: He's back!

Guess who's now on Amazon.com auctioning off American Flyer? http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y03X5433375X4796964/qid=940257933/sr=1-8/002-3339135-863705 It will be interesting to peruse the bidder list when it becomes available. Maybe he will behave himself, maybe not. Also, while Ebay did not suspend users storeslive.com or tylerb@... they certainly appeared to be shill IDs. (They only bid on our friends auctions and they have no feedback.) If you see these IDs on Ebay, or Amazon for that matter, or if you see passauf27@... on Amazon, beware! Ebay user REVICAM on Ebay seems to be a legitimate user who bids a lot (267 auction in the last 30 days) and has money to burn. He seems to have been a major target for the shilling that was used to either bid him up or discover his maximum so that he could be contacted later after the supposed high bidder couldn't be contacted. =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5486	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Corrected link to Amazon.com auction

Seems you can't just cut and paste Amazon's address for an auction. Try this one to see a very nice 919: http://auctions.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y03X5433375X4796964/ =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5487	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: York

The best I can do is take Friday off from work and get there for that, but I've always thought some of the best stuff (and possibly bargains) are gone by then. For example, I didn't see any 785's or Gabes on Friday in any of the halls (granted I was looking primarily for other items, but had my radar up for these). Yet apparently there were several at one point - - quote from eBay posting - - Generally the trend at YORK seen in April continued with even less quality American Flyer to be found resting on the tables of non American Flyer Dealers. The only exceptions to this were seven 785 Coaling Towers and at least six Gabe the Lamp Lighters So, does anybody remember seeing these? What prices were they fetching? Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5488	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: long messages <<>>

I got a computer illiterate buddy (all he can do is send e mail) that sends me gobs of 'funny stories and jokes' that he gets from a dozen folks in his personal mailing list. Sometimes there are carats for carats, like reading sanskrit. Showed him how to avoid the problem but he just hits SEND... Easiest problem is to not read it, which I dont anymore. Most this stuff one gets excited about rates a 'one' on an importance scale of ten anyway- including bidding on eBay!!!! L. (Keep in mind its all therapy, some is just better than others) ((Now if your kid or grandkid robbed a convenience store, THATS a concern...)) <<<this post rates a .05>>>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5489	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer TTOF

In a message dated 10/18/99 10:10:21 AM, David_Horn@... writes: << Did Lionel ever re-release a flat with AF Trainsn tractor trailers on it similar to either the 956 or 24550? >> No. All Flyonel TOFC's were made to match the given RR of the flat. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5490	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Re: York

In a message dated 10/18/99 12:26:13 PM, David_Horn@... writes: << Generally the trend at YORK seen in April continued with even less quality American Flyer to be found resting on the tables of non American Flyer Dealers.>> Agreed! << The only exceptions to this were seven 785 Coaling Towers and at least six Gabe the Lamp Lighters So, does anybody remember seeing these? What prices were they fetching? >> I saw a few of each. The 785's were asking for around $450 (E but no box) and the few Gabes I saw were in the $1350 to $1650 (E/OB) asking prices. The $1350 piece did not have an original shack roof. Yikes!!! R (Glad I bought both some time ago!) B

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5491	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: San Francisco

I'll be there next week on business, but with evenings open. Any ideas? Thanks. I used to make it a point to go to Chan's, but not this time. The last couple of times I found the AF stuff was mediocre and priced for fools. Store help was also totally disinterested in trains.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5492	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no?

info at http://www.angelfire.com/mo/FallSFest/SFESTMAIN.html browse from there... Lars (Did I miss the publicity on the List? or was it lost in York?)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5493	From: William H Trefts	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Zephyr

Gentlemen, Last week I took the plunge and ordered the Zephyr from Sunset Models. My confirmation has arrived in the mail. The person I spoke indicated that the model was not in production, but as I understand, may be produced if enough orders are placed. I think that with my order that makes 100 reservations. I hope it is produced, and I will wait patiently. Don't forget the S fest here in St. Louis October 29-31! I'll be there! (If my wife lets me out.) Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5494	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: flyonel TOFC

the TCA flyer providence convention car was flat and vans painted for burlington.perhaps the big l will do the American Flyer version as part of their retro-repro freight series-that is, if there is a Flyonel anymore-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5495	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Re: Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no?

Lars: Very good point! I haven't heard a thing about the Fall S Fest on this message board. The Fall S Fest, for my money, far exceeds the NASG convention. Yes, I'm an NASG member, but.... Anyhow, if you'll be in St. Louis, lets connect. Apparently you, me, and one other I know will attend! See Ya. Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5496	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: WHY EBAY OR AMAZON

Why do S gaugers frustrate themselves or waste their time and OUR time with Ebay or Amazon when the following dealers have great Flyer products at reasonable prices? Why not build a list of Flyer friendly dealers? Jack & Barbara Bogert <bbogert@...>, John & Robin Vanacore <AFSTrains@...>, Mark Preman <amerflyer@...>, Don & Robin Thompson <robin@...>, Ron Bashista <info@...>, Doug Peck <portlines@...> Joe's Train Repair <joestrainrepair@...> Any others? Staying on NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5497	From: Andy McBride	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: WHY EBAY OR AMAZON

>From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > >Why do S gaugers frustrate themselves >or waste their time and OUR time with >Ebay or Amazon when the following >dealers have great Flyer products at >reasonable prices? Why not build a list >of Flyer friendly dealers? Great point Glenn. Might I also add why do we want to continue to frustrate our selves by continuing to act as the eBay Police on this list. I know I can just delete the posts that pertain to eBay but I wonder if we all just can't get over this. I think we all understand now that eBay is a auction site for amateurs. Just like any other public forum there will always be some unscrupulous people looking to make a fast buck. With all these posts back and forth about this over priced items or that misrepresented item I can't help but reminded of my next door neighbor. She spends all of her day listening to the police scanner while peering out her window making sure the neighbor hood kids stay off her lawn. Perhaps if some of you are enjoying policing eBay you could branch off on your own list. As for me I think I'd have a lot more fun discussing things like: How come Flyer seemed to pick obscure railroads over more common ones more times then not? (i.e. a T&P GP but not AT&SF?!) What locomotive did Lionel and or Marx make that Flyer should have? If Flyer had survived what impact do you think it would have had on the hobby today. Would they still be doing S or would they have beefed up their HO line? Was their an obvious item that Flyer didn't make but should have? A 45 degree crossing leaps to mind. Well that's my two cents anyway. Andy McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5498	From: William H Trefts	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Fall S-Fest

Gentlemen, I suppose we all "get in a hurry" and scroll past some information on the one list from time to time. I have seen mention of the Fall S-Fest previously on the one-list. But it has been several weeks ago, and there wasn't a lot of hoopla surounding it. It has also been in the S-Gaugian. It is coming up, the website has been posted, (although any time I try to get to it, my computer reboots.) I'll be there, well, wife permitting, with my AFSGSL badge on. Hope to meet some of you folks face-to-face! Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5499	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Re: Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no? >>

In a message dated 10/19/1999 6:18:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no? >> We have been ready and anticipating the S-Fest for over six months. We always have a fabulous time there. We look forward to seeing any and all that attend. Stop by our booth and say hello. John and Robin Vanacore

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5500	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: What should have been made but wasn't/ was WHY EBAY OR AMAZON

Andy brought up some interesting questions. My list of "should've been done"s: Streamline mail-pickup car E units (GM's answer to PAs) Transformer load on the depressed center flat A Daylight Set (they did a prototype!) Better motor chassis for the Diesels! What L made that AF should have: real-looking F units! RDC car (again, prototyped) Trolley A 45 degree crossing would have been nice, but the AF electrical pickup wheel/slider spacing doesn't allow it to be done easily. That's one place where the center rail has an advantage. The spacing barely allows a 90! With live rails in the center of the crossing, I think it could be done, I tried once in High School with some Gargraves track, but maybe now I could actually do it! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5501	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Re: WHY EBAY OR AMAZON

Hi Glenn: you make a good point. I don't check ebay myself and I don't know whether there's ever any scale stuff on it. However I know Bill Wade has a for sale section to his web page for S and O scales. I assume Flyer guys could post their items there as well. cheers Glenn Ritter wrote: > From: Glenn Ritter <gartrain@...> > > Why do S gaugers frustrate themselves > or waste their time and OUR time with > Ebay or Amazon when the following > dealers have great Flyer products at > reasonable prices? Why not build a list > of Flyer friendly dealers? > > Jack & Barbara Bogert <bbogert@...>, > John & Robin Vanacore <AFSTrains@...>, > Mark Preman <amerflyer@...>, > Don & Robin Thompson <robin@...>, > Ron Bashista <info@...>, > Doug Peck <portlines@...> > Joe's Train Repair <joestrainrepair@...> > Any others? > > Staying on NASG track, Glenn > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5502	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Re: WHY EBAY OR AMAZON

>Why do S gaugers frustrate themselves or waste their time and OUR time with Ebay or Amazon when the following dealers have great Flyer products at reasonable prices? Why not build a list of Flyer friendly dealers? >Might I also add why do we want to continue to frustrate our selves by continuing to act as the eBay Police on this list... I think we all understand now that eBay is a auction site for amateurs. I do not feel frustrated using Ebay or helping to police it. I feel that Ebay is a valuable resource that is an important part of my interest in American Flyer. I have made some excellent purchases and got some great bargains, along with a few mistakes. It's a great way to find odd or miscellaneous items that dealers don't carry, or even fixer-uppers for those of us who like to bring pieces of junk back to life. Even though there has been criticism of the pictures of the items, this is one thing that makes Ebay so appealing because you can at least see what the item is, unlike text lists at internet train dealers. I also don't agree that it's only for amateurs. In fact, two of the suggested dealers, Doug Peck of Portline's Hobbies and Joe Haenn of Joe's Train Repair, are regular Ebay users. As for policing Ebay, I think we did something good here. This was a group effort and started when someone posted the high bid for the 371. If it wasn't for this list and the subsequent research, this might not have been noticed and probably would have continued on for much longer. =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5503	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: S starter set For Sale....

This is basically a starter set, do you have a grandkid that wants one???? Before he inherits yours that is? Following are in played with condition, fully functional, minor rust if any. All link coupler cars except one tender frame has KC. Operating baggage car #718 , red, car only no pickup stantion or bags Stockyard and operating car, #736 , minor rust on car door track, one door latch missing Track cleaning car #648 needs foam cleaners, barrel and box intact but paint chipping, both brake wheels intact Three basic cars- caboose, hopper, box (638, 640,642) some truck rust, chips on corners of caboose roof. Also two atlantics, 302 AC and 307, one each metal and plastic locos and tenders. Mix and match. One excellent E unit, one needs repair. Smoke and choochoo functional with new wire and wick. One motor excellent, one needs brush springs. Both look good, nothing missing or cracked but the one without pulmor tires has a driver with a chip out of the whitewall. About 35 pieces each straight and curved AF track, minor rust, U clean. Enough to run the length of the living room and back with more to spare. 90 deg. crossing and manual uncoupler included. 2 pr switches, one pr manual, one remote. Sold as unit. Manual need sheet metal arrows, one needs switchstand replaced. Orange plastic trestle set, vg, one smallest trestle missing. Just add a truss bridge! Offers accepted..FOB west michigan. Tune it up and make that grandkid SMILE :o) You supply the transformer! L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5504	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: crossings

Actually, in Flyer a 30 degree crossing is more useful than a 45 degree crossing because Flyer has 12 track sections to a circle as opposed to Lionel's 8. I have been working on one on and off for a year or so and have hopes of eventual success. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5505	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Re: Fall S-Fest

For one and all: Just in case anyone is looking for the site for S-Fest in St. Louis, it is www.fallsfest.cjb.net on which the necessary info can be found. See y'all there! RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5506	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/18/1999
Subject: Re: Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no?

All the mfgr will be in Chicago Larry Bruce Pilcher wrote: > From: Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> > > Lars: > Very good point! I haven't heard a thing about the Fall S Fest on this > message board. The Fall S Fest, for my money, far exceeds the NASG > convention. Yes, I'm an NASG member, but.... > Anyhow, if you'll be in St. Louis, lets connect. Apparently you, me, > and one other I know will attend! See Ya. > Bruce > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5507	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Re: Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no? >>

Why do you guys schedule this on the week end of Richter-Mria show every year. Why don't you do the weekend before or the one after? Larry AFSTrains@... wrote: > From: AFSTrains@... > > In a message dated 10/19/1999 6:18:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > S-Trains@onelist.com writes: > > << Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no? >> > > We have been ready and anticipating the S-Fest for over six months. We > always have a fabulous time there. We look forward to seeing any and all > that attend. Stop by our booth and say hello. John and Robin Vanacore > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5508	From: Russcalla@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 407

I would like to ask for some help. I purchased a 751 log loader and am in the process of restoring it. The problem I'm facing is all wires were cut from the motor and the solenoid so I need help to figure out how they run to the control box and transformer. Thanks, Russ

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5509	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: S Fest Scheduling

I believe St. Louis scheduled the Fest for Halloween weekend to get a better room rate from the hotel. Unfortunately, this clashes with the MRIA/RICHTER trade show putting a strain on S maunfacturers as to which show to attend. By the way, the Fest web site got flagged by my corporate Net-Nanny as being an "Adult" site. And that was through the link on the NASG page. Hmmmm. The Chicago Group (CASG) usually tries to schedule their turn at the Fest to coincide with the weekend of the local GATS swap. CASG's next turn will be in 2002. As I recall, Milwaukee (Badgerland) has 2000 and Beloit (State Line) has 2001. I haven't heard of any dates being set yet, but Badgerland will probably announce at this years Fest. As a point of history, the Fall S Fest originated in Chicago when 24 years ago, the late Pete Jugle looked across the land, turned to his brother Andy and commented on the fact that there weren't any train things going on in the fall. Thus the Fall S Fest was born. The Fest later expanded to include the cities of Milwaukee, Beloit and now St. Louis. How times have changed. As anybody who has been involved with this event can tell you, it is now extremely difficult to schedule the Fest without bumping into some other model railroad related event. Plus, every year it gets more difficult to find a hotel with a decent room rate and a facility with the square footage needed to host the Fest. I'm sure folks in other parts of the country run into similar problems when trying to schedule an event. Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5510	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: What Flyer Might Have Done

Wayne Beachy and I spotted one of the "what Gilbert might have done" items at York in the ballroom of the Billy Budd pre-show. It was a Sam the Semaphore mechanism installed in a Mystic Station, with the semaphore installed on the platform and "Sam" coming out of the station. Apparently, it was modelled after a prototype developed by Gilbert. It was re-painted in the brown and yellow pre-war colors. Other things I wish A.C. had done: Brill and/or Birney Trolley (I recently contacted Bowser about doing their O versions in an S version. Since they recently expanded into N scale, maybe they will consider this as an entry into S gauge (other than their turntable). All they need are new molded bodies and a converted chassis. I will let the list know if they respond.) [P.S. I love the PA Heritage Trolley, but cannot begin to afford it!] Speeder Car (e.g., Dodge Ram on-track inspection/construction vehicle) Bascule bridge (or similar operating bridge) Rotary snow plow Block signals (other than the limited production) Well, back to reality. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5511	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Reader's Digest

Andy McBride put his "two cents" into the recent e-Bay discussions with these remarks: >Perhaps if some of you are enjoying policing eBay you could branch off on >your own list. As for me I think I'd have a lot more fun discussing thingslike: >How come Flyer seemed to pick obscure railroads over more common ones more >times then not? (i.e. a T&P GP but not AT&SF?!) >What locomotive did Lionel and or Marx make that Flyer should have? >If Flyer had survived what impact do you think it would have had on the >hobby today. Would they still be doing S or would they have beefed up their >HO line?Was their an obvious item that Flyer didn't make but should have? A 45 >degree crossing leaps to mind. Here is the way I read this Andy; see if I have it right: "I don't want to talk about stuff that is actually happening now and affects most all of us and is in the obvious interest of a great many. I want to go hide in my old American Flyer catalogs and pretend that A.C. Gilbert is a viable company that might actually produce something that Santa can bring me this year." Flyer is done. Let me repeat that in case you did not get it. FLYER IS DONE! All there is in Flyer has been made. It doesn't matter what they might have done. It doesn't matter whether or not they would have had an impact if they survived, because they didn't survive. In your mind is the only place you are going to get a 45 degree crossing. Now, I wouldn't be coming on so strong but for the tone of your letter: "I also add why do we want to continue to frustrate our selves by continuing to act as the eBay Police on this list. I know I can just delete the posts that pertain to eBay but I wonder if we all just can't get over this." I don't think that it is something to get over. I am into S-gauge trains. E-Bay is one spot to buy them. If I see something fraudulent there I am going to report it, both to e-Bay and to my friends on this list so they will be aware. You're right Andy, you can delete the posts that pertain to e-Bay, the same way I delete the posts pertaining to pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking about what the world would be like if only my favorite toy train company was still flourishing. Sincerely, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5512	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: 751 log loader

I bought a dirty 751A (with lift solenoid below lower deck) that needs some cleaning before making its way onto the layout, but it is complete and works fine. Basically the black wire goes to the base post, the yellow wire to the 15 volt post. The green and red are what activate the lift and initiate rotation of the large horizontal drive wheel respectively. I don't have the original button (what do you want for $85). I'm using a Radio Shack DPDT (using only one set of poles, Shack didn't have a SPDT) Momentary-On Center-Off Self-Centering switch. To wire the standard button, refer to a copy of Barker's book, K-line Handbook, other diagram source, or hopefully this description will help you figure it out. With the DPDT-MOCOSC switch I'll run the black wire to Base, a 15 V hot to the switch, red from the switch to the loader, green from the other pole of the switch to the loader, and connect the yellow to the 15V post. I bench test mine without any button - - connect the black to Base and yellow to 15 v. Momentarily press the green wire to the 15v post. That raises the log into the carriage - bizzzatt. Then momentarily press the red wire to the 15v post. That rotates the large carriage drive wheel past he pressure switch under the upper deck so the constant 15 v from the yellow lead can power it through a complete rotation. PS the same DPDT switch works well with 761 semaphores. The large black lever and crisp spring action make for a nice controller. PPS I may have the yellow and red wires reversed, no biggee, try it and you can tell right away by whether the wheel stops rotating when it encounters the pressure switch or not, but from memory and without the piece in front of me I think it's the yellow that gets constant juice.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5513	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Fw: Auction ID: 1015A718669

Speaking of Auctions, I sent this letter to Sentinel@... yesterday: >Re: Auction ID: 1015A718669 >Seller: tbauer6194 > >This seller, Tim Bauer was removed from e-Bay (suspended, name >timbauerrarecoins) along with at least one of his regular bidders, >passauf27@... , following a series of complaints regarding false >bidding, in what was alleged to be an attempt to force prices up. Other >regular bidders to this seller include storeslive.com, and tylerb@... , >though these users were not suspended, for lack of evidence. Additionally >suspended was mberkman@... , who is a prior bidder of of Mr. Bauer and >appears in his feedback page. > >This item: AF #919 Operating Dump Car & Remote Control was still being >auctioned at the time of Mr. Bauer's suspension and now appears here. > >This information is supplied for your interest and awareness. I have no >information that any fraudulent activity has been committed on your service. > >I am an S-gauge train collector and operator and a member of several >Internet train mail lists. These auctions on e-Bay alerted the members of >these lists and we, in turn, alerted e-Bay. Their findings were >independently assessed. The contact at e-Bay Safe Harbor was Clark M. > >Cordially, >Chris Zizzo > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5514	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 407

My instruction book shows black to the base post. The black goes to one side of the lift solenoid and one side of the motor and does not go through the control box. Yellow goes from transformer 15V post to the the control switch box and also from the switch box back to the accessory. From the control switch green and red carry this 15V back to the motor and solenoid. They hook up to the red and green buttons on the control switch if you have that switch. Pressing green should power the lift solenoid. Pressing red should start the motor. This means green hooks to the other end of the lift solenoid, and red powers the other side of the motor. The yellow wire goes to the motor switch under the house and keeps the motor running by supplying 15V to complete the load cycle after the red button is released. Hope this helps. I power mine with an Atlas HO switch controller 'cause I didn't have the authentic button. Russcalla@... wrote: > > From: Russcalla@... > > I would like to ask for some help. I purchased a 751 log loader and am in the > process of restoring it. The problem I'm facing is all wires were cut from > the motor and the solenoid so I need help to figure out how they run to the > control box and transformer. Thanks, Russ > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5515	From: bulamatare1	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: 752 Seaboard Coal Loader

Greeting, I am in desperate need of house and motor for a 752 Seaboard Coal Loader project that I have been working on for quite some time now. I have exhausted all of my regular sources for American Flyer parts.Would anyone out there happen to have these parts and would be willing to part with them for a fair price?Or,know someone that might have them? Thanks,Steve Bulamatare1@... Bulamatare1@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5516	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: The variety is a good thing

I like the fact we have store-front retailers, eBay, e-lists, and shows to attend. I can't slam, or make exclusive, any one of them. More often than not I've been pleased with all of them. What's counts most is they are ALL available to us to buy, sell, learn about, and build relationships based on, toy trains. Don't forget, this is a hobby, a luxury. There are folks (I believe the current count is 1 billion out of the world's 6 billion people) who haven't the money you spend on trains for food today.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5517	From: Andy McBride	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Santa and American Flyer

>From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> >Here is the way I read this Andy; see if I have it right: >"I don't want to talk about stuff that is actually happening now and affects >most all of us and is in the obvious interest of a great many. I want to go >hide in my old American Flyer catalogs and pretend that A.C. Gilbert is a >viable company that might actually produce something that Santa can bring me >this year." > >Flyer is done. Let me repeat that in case you did not get it. FLYER IS >DONE! > >All there is in Flyer has been made. It doesn't matter what they might have >done. It doesn't matter whether or not they would have had an impact if >they survived, because they didn't survive. In your mind is the only place >you are going to get a 45 degree crossing. Whoa; hold on there Chris. First you tell me there's no Flyer and then you suggest that Santa isn't real either? This is not the way I wanted to start my day. Please don't ruin the Tooth Ferry for me - it's all I have left. Forgive me if I have offended. I in no way wanted to suggest that what some of you folks are doing on the list isn't worth while. I do shop on eBay (and they're a client of mine) and I do appreciate your efforts to keep it a fair marketplace. In fact I was serious when I suggested a separate list. It's obvious many of your enjoy keeping tabs on eBay as well as other auction sites. With an exclusive list you could organize your efforts and probable do a world of good. I was a little perplexed on your attack on people who are interested in American Flyer. Ummm. . .I thought this was a list of folks who run and collect S-gauge trains. Having an S-list with out Flyer is like having a Rock-n-Roll list without the Beatles. I did smile when you suggested that I "hide" in my American Flyer trains. I'm a young man who was born long after Gilbert shut down. Many of my fellow model railroader friends that are my age have accused me of similar atrocities. Most of them can't figure out why I've got a Flyer train running around on the floor below the benchwork of my HO scale layout. My job in the real world is in the hobby market. For the past few years I've spent forty hours a week talking to people in the hobby industry. Through this I've developed a keen interest in the history and the marketing behind companies like Gilbert. My post should not have been interpreted as "pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking". Rather I was trying to learn more about American Flyer trains and their customers. Besides Chris these kinds of conversations can be fun. I thought Joseph Haenn's post was great. Wasn't there a part of you that stopped for a moment when he suggested a Rotary Snow Plow to think what that would have looked like or how Flyer would have manufactured and it? To sum things up Chris, all I was suggesting was perhaps the list was getting into a bit of a rut lately. I was getting bored talking about the same thing every day and I was interested in your thoughts on on another topic. So come on Chris. It sounds like your a passionate guy. What would you have produced if you were the head of Gilbert's creative department circa 1950? Andy McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5518	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Fwd: Re: Trolleys

Just got the following reply from Lee English at Bowser about them producing trolleys in S gauge. It does not look promising, but maybe if he gets enough inquiries, they will do something in S for us. Their O gauge and O scall Brill and Birney trolleys sell for between 79.95 and 119.95. The Bowser Website is: http://bowser-trains.com Their e-mail address is: bowser@.... Joe >Sorry > >no plans for S trolleys > >At 07:33 PM 10/19/99 -0700, you wrote: >>ear Sirs: >> >You make beautiful Brill and Birney trolleys in O >>gauge and O scale, and they are priced right. >>However, I am in S gauge. Is there any chance that >>you might produce an S gauge trolley in the future? >> >>Thank you, >>Joe >> >> >>===== >>Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 >>404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 >>Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer >> Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines >>American Models ########################## S-Helper Service >> Official Licensed Dealer for Gilbert Reproductions >>joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa >>__________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >> >> Thank you Lee English Bowser Web Site http://bowser-trains.com ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/VisaSorry no plans for S trolleys At 07:33 PM 10/19/99 -0700, you wrote: >Dear Sirs: > >You make beautiful Brill and Birney trolleys in O >gauge and O scale, and they are priced right. >However, I am in S gauge. Is there any chance that >you might produce an S gauge trolley in the future? > >Thank you, >Joe > > > >===== >Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 >404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 >Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer > Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines >American Models ########################## S-Helper Service > Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions >joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > Thank you Lee English Bowser Web Site http://bowser-trains.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5519	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Santa and American Flyer

In a message dated 10/20/99 8:05:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, amcbride@... writes: << I'm a young man who was born long after Gilbert shut down. Many of my fellow model railroader friends that are my age have accused me of similar atrocities. Most of them can't figure out why I've got a Flyer train running around on the floor below the benchwork of my HO scale layout.>> Well, Andy, the answer is simple. The old AF is just good ol' plain fun! They have it "figured out" but they probably do not want to admit it to themselves. Speaking of Flyer below the HO benchwork, Warren Frost who is a well-known AF collector/operater reentered the AF habit the same way (I, too, have HO's in my past but I long since have returned to my AF.). Whereas one has to struggle mightily to make model trains appear as real, toy trains ARE the real thing they were intended to be - real old toy trains. Being 'genuine' is, therefore, implicit in their nature. I would have liked to have seen Gilbert build a freight steam engine, such as a B&O Mikado or a B&A Berk. Except for the three shifters, AC always built passenger engines. A high rail die cast freight steamer with smoke and choo-choo would be nice to see from a SHS or AM, IMHO. :-)) RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5520	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: live video layout tours

Sorry I missed that York 'broadcast'. I understand it was live video of an operating layout. Can we do this on S-list? In other words, can we show and share live operating sessions of our railroads through the internet? We could do live repair clinics too. This would be great fun. What say, Paul Y.? Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5521	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Fw: Auction ID: 1015A718669

David Dewey wrote: >A comment on your posting regarding the "what ifs...". >Basically, yes it's a dream world, but maybe an incentive to some >manufacturer to do something today. _______________________________________________________ David: Nobody is more of a daydreamer than me, nobody. I wish I had all the toy trains in the world. I wish I had a string of full sized streamlined cars to live in. My bedroom would be in the top of the full length Vista-Dome. The whole thing would be pulled around the country behind a fully restored Big-Boy. The crew would be on permanent retainer. I can dream, and I can talk about it. The problem is when some shortsighted Flyer fan puts his mouth in gear without checking to see if his brain was engaged. Yeah, let's all stop posting the stuff you want to talk about because I want all the posts to be about what I want to talk about. Yeah, I know I can delete the posts in which I have no interest, but I want to go further. I want you to not be interested in what interests you. I want you to post what I want to read. What the hell kind of thought process is this? If you want to post stuff to give today's manufacturers an idea of what you want and need, fine. I don't care, in fact, I'm downright grateful. Just don't try to regulate what I want to talk about and we'll get along just fine. I may even contribute to your discussion if I think I might have something of value to add. The e-Bay and Amazon discussions are here because these auctions, for better or worse, are now a part of the landscape of this hobby. If I were to say something to everyone on this list, hell, on any list, it would be: Get with the diversity of these instant communities. We are an ad hoc group drawn together by a common thread of interest, but each of us has experienced the root development of that interest in a unique way. Many factors have had an impact on the process. Guys from the Southwest have looked at this hobby one way, while Northeasterners have another approach. The kids who grew up rich have different memories than the ones who were of modest means. Were you from a broken home, did one of your parents die when you were young, did you have a lot of brothers or sisters, did you move a lot, how old are you, are you artistic or mechanical, how about your emotional state????? The combinations and permutations are endless and each situation influences your appreciation of toy trains or anything else. There are no two people who share the precisely identical experiences or reactions to those experiences. We must allow for this as we meet new friends on the Internet because this medium is doing something which we have never experienced before. It is bringing us into close community with people spread all over the globe, people whose experiences are even more diverse than anything we have seen before. There is simply no room here for engaging or even suggesting restrictions on the thoughts of contributors to this list beyond asking that all posts be about the common thread of S-Gauge trains. For some people the temptation to be a censor is so strong, they cannot help but bring that controlling mentality to bear. I, for one, will simply not stand for it. This list is open to all S-Gauge train discussions. The day it closes a portion of that is the day I leave it. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5522	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: answering Andy

In response to Andy McBride's intriguing questions, I respond as follows: McB asked: How come Flyer seemed to pick obscure railroads over more common ones more times then not? (i.e. a T&P GP but not AT&SF?!) I reply: Because American Flyer is the Chicago Cubs of toy trains manufacturers: Lovable losers who balance occasional streaks of brilliance with moments of stellar ineptitude. To me, Gilbert had a charming affinity for doing the unexpected or unconventional, sometimes to its detriment. I mean, T&P? Who the hell follows the T&P? The lone railfan in San Antonio? My favorite is the Baldwin switcher. I once asked a friend of mine (a non-toy train operator) if he could think of more obscure roads than T&P, the Minnie (M&StL) and Seaboard Air Line. "Monon?" he ventured. I laughed out loud. "Trust me, if Flyer chose to produce a C628, they would have ignored SP and Pennsylvania (both of which owned the big Alcos) and produced one in Monon paint!" Crazed on his own power, Andy wrote: What locomotive did Lionel and or Marx make that Flyer should have? To which I reply: I've said this before, but the free world needed a Flyer Train Master. Preferably a Junior Train Master (the slightly shorter 1,600 horsepower version of the bigger 2,400 horsepower Train Master). Dancing on the head of a pin with a company of angels, McBride writes: If Flyer had survived what impact do you think it would have had on the hobby today. Would they still be doing S or would they have beefed up their HO line? To which I don my underwear and respond: Given the Unholy Alliance formed by Kalmbach and Walthers in the 1950s, the future of S was doomed (I write this with my tongue firmly in cheek, gents). The truth? The marketing inroads made by HO and N scale spelled defeat for S as much as O (Lionel wasn't exactly raking in the big bucks in the Summer of Love, either). But what if someone other than Lionel had bought the flyer name and tooling? A smart marketer could position Flyer as the "un-toy train" (remember those old 7-Up ads that positioned the drink against Number One Coke?). Saab doesn't sell a shitload of cars in the U.S., but they have a small, devoted following. What's mroe, Saab cars have a "special something" that comes from being a minority car-builder. With savvy marketing and regular, interesting additions to the line (A Junior Train Master! A C628! A Southern Railway "Big John" hopper!) Flyer might have acquired the same "mystique" as brand names such as Saab. Grabbing at straw dogs, Andy goes on to opine: Was their an obvious item that Flyer didn't make but should have? A 45 degree crossing leaps to mind. To which I say: Good one, Andy. How about a Flyer diesel servicing facility? A Flyer hump yard (OK, I know its impractical, but so is the 769 aircraft beacon I own that doesn't twirl)? A Flyer yard dick chasing a hobo over the top of a boxcar? Some cool Flyer factories (is it too much to ask for a Gilbert steel mill? OK, probably, sure... but I can dream, can't I?) Thanks for the ride, Andy, I quite enjoyed it. Now it's time to check eBay, where I've a) found some good deals b) made some good friends and c) had a lot of fun killing time looking at stuff when I should be working (like now!) Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5523	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: What Flyer Might Have Done

Joe, Putt Trains made a S gauge Birney available in hi-rail or scale. Mine came as an easy to assemble kit. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5524	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Halloween weekend Fall S Fest in St Louis MO - did U no? >>

Dear Larry, Just the St. Louis club schedules the S-fest during the Annual National Model and Hobby Show in Chicago. Not only are we not able to attend this time, but most of our customers in the Chicago area will be in St. Louis. I actually think that neither show should pick Holloween weekend as this should be a family time and not a show time. lawrence jackman wrote: > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > Why do you guys schedule this on the week end of Richter-Mria show every > year. Why don't you do the weekend before or the one after? > Larry -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets to arrive tomorrow

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5525	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Flyer FS NIB folks

Was in a train shop today looking at things and lo and behold, some guy in his 70's wandered in and consummated selling a bundle of S ga stuff. Included were lots of NIB in red and white boxes. The stack was close to 3 ft high.... And in separate wrappers I could discern - Flyer 326 and A-A rocket I think. Silver flash set $950, Mopac pass same $ NH Electric set $675, Nopac GP9 set-caboose $425 UP 484 #336 $595(?) and at least 20 cars separate. The sets may include addtional cars?????? IF U R interested in the inventory, and it is JUST in, call Seth at The Train Barn Kalamazoo MI 616-327-4016 1 to 7 pm tues thru fri, sat 10 to 5. All given as a public service to the list. L. ( O Oh, O!!!!!!!!! )

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5526	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: answering Andy

In a message dated 10/20/99 2:13:16 PM, fasttrack2000@... writes: Paul asks: << A Flyer hump yard (OK, I know its impractical, but so is the 769 aircraft beacon I own that doesn't twirl)? A Flyer yard dick chasing a hobo over the top of a boxcar? >> Well, ACG did build the No. 784 Hump Set, and the No. 970 and 25049 walking brakeman ("Smitty") operating box cars. These would seem to be close to meeting your desires. Contact Doug Peck for a cheap and effective 'fix' for the beacon problem. << How come Flyer seemed to pick obscure railroads over more common ones more times then not? (i.e. a T&P GP but not AT&SF?!) >> BTW, the 'obscure RR' thing is probably a bit off the mark. ACG did PRR, NYC, NKP, NH, AT&SF (all those Alco PA's!), B&O, MP, UP, NP, RDG, CNW, and so on....... The T&P was most likely chosen because the colors look really sharp on the GP-7 and make one great-looking toy train. And, they did UP and C&O GP-7's, too. As some others here can tell better than I, ACG copied many pieces of rolling stock right out of the Car Builders's Cyclopedia right down to the markings - prototype to scale toy in one simple direct step (e.g., the No. 630 RDG caboose, No. 631 T+P gondola, etc.). The choice of RR was often rooted in fidelity to prototype. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5527	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/19/1999
Subject: Rolling Stock Questions

Here are several for those of us who have been around in scale for a few decades, I am starting to forget which of the old mfr's did what. As you may expect, I'm trying to digest the stuff from Will Estes estate a little more, at least so I can plan what to do with it. Who made an Andrews truck that looks much heavier than the NorthEastern/Kinsman one; with brass wheelsets that have insulating axles that are about 3/16" between the wheels. Several of these pair look brass under the paint. Also, there are a pair or two of arch-bar trucks I cannot ID. I understand the Culp trucks all had metal wheels that had the cast-iron ribbing on the back, there are a few of those also, but didn't Nixon, Midgage, etc, also make freight trucks?? Perma-Bilt boxcars were all 40' or 50', right?? Nope. One of those that came from Will scales out 43' and is otherwise same as the rest. Anyone know what the deal is?? The Rex zamak truck and the Ace truck, Bettendorf, as I remember, were very similar except one had brake shoes cast into the inside of the sideframes--which one whas which--I have some of both represented.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5528	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Old Product Inquiry

This is to add to my earlier inquiry about products of days gone by: Were Midgage and Sylvania the same line of extruded aluminum lightweight passenger cars that were smoothsided but with beltrails above and below the windows. Were there more than one window arrangement for coaches, and how can I tell which was which--there are two different arragements in 3 extrusions I got from Will, and I don't know which is what.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5529	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: answering Andy

--- RBubeck327@... wrote: > > Well, ACG did build the No. 784 Hump Set, and the > No. 970 and 25049 walking > brakeman ("Smitty") operating box cars. These would > seem to be close to > meeting your desires. To which Paul replies: Wow, I've never heard of the 784 hump set (and Paul Nelson's wonderful book "Famous American Flyer Trains" doesn't mention it either. Can you elaborate? > > BTW, the 'obscure RR' thing is probably a bit off > the mark. ACG did PRR, > NYC, NKP, NH, AT&SF (all those Alco PA's!), B&O, MP, > UP, NP, RDG, CNW, and so > on....... Agreed. In fact, C&NW fans seem particularly blessed. But other major roads such as Southern Pacific (based in population-rich California) came up short. The Milwaukee Road, for example, got little attention from Gilbert, despite its Chicago-Pacific Northwest-southern Indiana route map. I mean, wouldn't a Milwaukee Road Baldwin be a better sales candidate than a Minnie Baldwin (the M&StL, after served, connected the Twin Cities with the bustling metropolis of Peoria, Illinois!). A friend of ine likes to joke, "You can paint a turd in Pennsy or Santa Fe paint and it'll sell to model railroaders." Maybe so, but Gilbert cheerfully ignored that lesson. Given the large population of New York and Pennsylvania, a Pennsy or Central PA would seem perfect. Instead, Gilbert gives us Maine Central (the Silver Flash scheme, recognized by the lone MEC fan in Frozen Maple, Maine) and the Southern (serving a region which, even today, has a small railfan/model railroader base compared to CA, NY, PA and the Midwest Great Lakes region). Incidentally, neither Maine Central nor Southern rostered a PA (nor did the Burlington, which inspired the Silver Streak paint scheme, I'm told). Having said all this, I take great delight in Flyer's choice of road names. The fact that Gilbert honored the lowly Texas & Pacific with a Geep AND a Baldwin makes me happy. I love Flyer in apart because it *is* the underdog. How appropriate, then, that Flyer use underdog railroad names on much of its rolling stock. How the Central of New Jersey, the Rock Island and the Western Pacific (all lovable losers, IMO) failed to win a place in Gilbert's heart is beyond me! The choice of RR > was often rooted in fidelity to prototype. > Yes, and when Gilbert swerved from the prototype the results were magnificent (the NP PA's leap to mind). Although I'm a C&NW fan (and know the railroad's locomotive roster fairly well) I can't remember if M&StL ever rostered a Baldwin switcher (ditto for T&P; I thought it was all EMD). But I can't argue with the Minnine paint scheme on the Flyer Baldwin (besides, we C&NW fans have "our" Flyer Baldwin!). Thanks for the great reply, RB.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5530	From: ClaimsBoss@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Used AF Track

Went to the Townsend Mass. show last Sunday and was somewhat disappointed. Very small and virtually no S-Gauge, but I did buy one box of "junk". Had a few cars good for rebuilding, and a lot of track. If anyone is interested in buying some track, for a reasonable price get back to me. Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5531	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Geeps & track

Two questions: In my dim, fading memory, I seem to recall mention of some early AF Geeps coming with PA style Alco trucks. Am I having another acid flashback? Or do such beasts exist in reality? Two, what's an average price for used Flyer straights and curves? And do any of the dealers on this list sell such items? Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5532	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: answering Andy

Paul D. Schneider wrote: > (SNIP) > perfect. Instead, Gilbert gives us Maine Central (the > Silver Flash scheme, recognized by the lone MEC fan in > Frozen Maple, Maine) and the Southern (serving a > region which, even today, has a small railfan/model > railroader base compared to CA, NY, PA and the Midwest > Great Lakes region). Incidentally, neither Maine > Central nor Southern rostered a PA (nor did the > Burlington, which inspired the Silver Streak paint > scheme, I'm told). > (SNIP) The Southern owned six PA-3 models. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5533	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Answering Paul D. Schneider

Paul: This is not a personal attack on you. I would just like to take issue with several points you made in your posting, "Answering Andy". Through your messages on s-list, you have shown a desire to learn about American Flyer trains and their fans. Perhaps this will help. It is not, repeat not, written in a spirit of personal animosity. Probably the one thing that Flyer fans admire most about their trains is their excellence. Gilbert toys were known for their excellence. Their lead product, the erector set, has never to this day been approached as far as being the best construction toy ever made. Their chemistry sets, microscopes, telescopes, carpentry sets, and even geiger counters, as well as the thoughtful attitude behind them, taught us many valuable skills and opened doors for us into the postwar 'age of science'. They were excellent, too. I used to watch the microorganisms in pond water devour each other under my microscope until the slides dried out. But the thing most of us liked the best was and is those trains. They were the most fun of all. Their excellence through the 1959 production cannot be denied. They were the best combination of near-scale-model realism and toy train durability and reliability ever made, most of us feel. 1. The 1956 North Coast Limited was the most beautiful postwar toy train ever made. 2. Flyer's smoke and choo-choo and diesel roar had no equal. 3. The American Flyer track system featuring 2 rail track, 'T' rail, 12 sections to a circle instead of 8, sound deadening rubber roadbed, train controlling turnouts and numerous other innovations, was its biggest selling point It was the best toy train track system ever made, at that time. 4. The Flyer turret transformers were the closest approximation to real train controls of any toy train controller ever made. And on and on. Unfortunately, both Gilbert and Lionel were family owned companies with suffocatingly paternalistic attitudes toward their employees. Just as the dynamic founders each came upon retirement age, the way their products were marketed (the rise of discount stores) changed and they were not flexible enough to meet this challenge. Other factors, such as the rise of toy racing cars, played a part as well. The HO manufacturers, unburdened by tradition and with more modern facilities and outlooks, and their magazines, were able to topple the two giants in their weakened state. Fortunately most of Gilbert's mistakes (weird diesels, "American Flyer Lines" on everything, etc.) were bad marketing department decisions. The trains themselves remained pretty cool through the 1959 production. There were several reasons why Flyer did not produce certain items that would probably have been successful. Most of us consider that Gilbert's marketing arm a) was out of touch and b) had too much power within the company, which itself was not flexible enough. In addition, Gilbert did not dominate the toy train field; at its peak it sold only about 1/3 as many trains as the big L. A more diverse product line would thus not have been more profitable, considering the high production costs at their outdated plant. At the end, they were outsourcing as much as possible. But another factor that is often not considered is this: O gauge items are 1.33 times as long as S gauge ones. Since volume is three dimensional, a Lionel item such as a Hudson tender will have roughly 1.33 CUBED, or 5.33 times as much volume inside it as a Flyer piece if both are accurate models. Lionel took good advantage of this extra room, especially in its wide variety of action cars, while Gilbert's design opportunities were restricted. The Baldwin diesel was the only diesel switcher into which a field wound motor would fit in S gauge and it had to be made slightly oversize at that. Most of us would not consider your analogy comparing Flyer to Saab valid. Saab markets its cars to a small niche of educated upscale professionals. Gilbert's trains were mass marketed and they took care to always be a few dollars under Lionel in price. If you are going to compare Flyer to a car company, a better choice would be Checker. They had a better though perhaps less charismatic product, but not so many people knew about them. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5534	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: answering Andy

In a message dated 10/20/99 6:09:37 PM, fasttrack2000@... writes: << Wow, I've never heard of the 784 hump set (and Paul Nelson's wonderful book "Famous American Flyer Trains" doesn't mention it either. Can you elaborate? >> See page 26 of a 1955 AF catalogue, for example. The set consisted of the necessary trestle pieces, track, and a remote switch to assemble a 'hump'. Of course, one can assemble the necessary pieces easily to do the same thing. Oh, and while we are on the subject, it is best to treat Paul Nelson's book as a good read, but not an AF 'bible'. Have fun! RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5535	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Geeps & track

In a message dated 10/20/99 6:24:58 PM, fasttrack2000@... writes: << In my dim, fading memory, I seem to recall mention of some early AF Geeps coming with PA style Alco trucks. Am I having another acid flashback? >> They didn't come from New Haven this way. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5536	From: esquivel	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: answering Andy

did they not make a monon? ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul D. Schneider <fasttrack2000@...> To: <S-Trains@onelist.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 2:13 PM Subject: [S-Trains] answering Andy > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > In response to Andy McBride's intriguing questions, I > respond as follows: > > McB asked: > > How come Flyer seemed to pick obscure railroads over > more common > ones more > times then not? (i.e. a T&P GP but not AT&SF?!) > > I reply: Because American Flyer is the Chicago Cubs of > toy trains manufacturers: Lovable losers who balance > occasional streaks of brilliance with moments of > stellar ineptitude. To me, Gilbert had a charming > affinity for doing the unexpected or unconventional, > sometimes to its detriment. I mean, T&P? Who the hell > follows the T&P? The lone railfan in San Antonio? > > My favorite is the Baldwin switcher. I once asked a > friend of mine (a non-toy train operator) if he could > think of more obscure roads than T&P, the Minnie > (M&StL) and Seaboard Air Line. "Monon?" he ventured. I > laughed out loud. "Trust me, if Flyer chose to produce > a C628, they would have ignored SP and Pennsylvania > (both of which owned the big Alcos) and produced one > in Monon paint!" > > > Crazed on his own power, Andy wrote: > > What locomotive did Lionel and or Marx make that Flyer > should have? > > To which I reply: > > I've said this before, but the free world needed a > Flyer Train Master. Preferably a Junior Train Master > (the slightly shorter 1,600 horsepower version of the > bigger 2,400 horsepower Train Master). > > Dancing on the head of a pin with a company of angels, > McBride writes: > > If Flyer had survived what impact do you think it > would have had on > the > hobby today. Would they still be doing S or would they > have beefed > up their > HO line? > > To which I don my underwear and respond: > > Given the Unholy Alliance formed by Kalmbach and > Walthers in the 1950s, the future of S was doomed (I > write this with my tongue firmly in cheek, gents). The > truth? The marketing inroads made by HO and N scale > spelled defeat for S as much as O (Lionel wasn't > exactly raking in the big bucks in the Summer of Love, > either). > > But what if someone other than Lionel had bought the > flyer name and tooling? A smart marketer could > position Flyer as the "un-toy train" (remember those > old 7-Up ads that positioned the drink against Number > One Coke?). > > Saab doesn't sell a shitload of cars in the U.S., but > they have a small, devoted following. What's mroe, > Saab cars have a "special something" that comes from > being a minority car-builder. With savvy marketing > and regular, interesting additions to the line (A > Junior Train Master! A C628! A Southern Railway "Big > John" hopper!) Flyer might have acquired the same > "mystique" as brand names such as Saab. > > Grabbing at straw dogs, Andy goes on to opine: > > Was their an obvious item that Flyer didn't make but > should have? A > 45 > degree crossing leaps to mind. > > To which I say: Good one, Andy. How about a Flyer > diesel servicing facility? A Flyer hump yard (OK, I > know its impractical, but so is the 769 aircraft > beacon I own that doesn't twirl)? A Flyer yard dick > chasing a hobo over the top of a boxcar? Some cool > Flyer factories (is it too much to ask for a Gilbert > steel mill? OK, probably, sure... but I can dream, > can't I?) > > Thanks for the ride, Andy, I quite enjoyed it. Now > it's time to check eBay, where I've a) found some good > deals b) made some good friends and c) had a lot of > fun killing time looking at stuff when I should be > working (like now!) > > Paul Schneider > San Francisco > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5537	From: bob walsh	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: For that hard to buy for collector friend...

Howdy, I saw this Gilbert item on Ebay and thought it was kind of cool, but with $3,500 I think I could buy quite a few "S" gauge items I would much rather have. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=182541946 I would have to agree with the person who would of liked to have seen some freight type steamers made by Gilbert. They could have modified a Pacific type body and made some smaller driving wheels and could of fairly easily put together a Mikado type freight engine. Which is one of the most used steam freight engines. Otherwise the Northern type is about the only freight steamer Gilbert made. Even though from what I understand, in the final days of steam some railroads were using Hudson's and Pacific's to haul some freight. __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5538	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Paul Nelson's AF book

--- RBubeck327@... wrote: > > In a message dated 10/20/99 6:09:37 PM, > fasttrack2000@... writes: > > Oh, and while we are on the subject, it is best to > treat Paul Nelson's book > as a good read, but not an AF 'bible'. > To which Paul replies: Um, care to elaborate, RB? I'm not enough of an expert to spot the "flat spots" in the book's wheels.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5539	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: fantasy, imagination and Flyer

Chris Zizzo wrote: Here is the way I read this Andy; see if I have it right: "I don't want to talk about stuff that is actually happening now and affects most all of us and is in the obvious interest of a great many. I want to go hide in my old American Flyer catalogs and pretend that A.C. Gilbert is a viable company that might actually produce something that Santa can bring me this year." To which Paul Schneider replies: Chris, I don't believe Andy meant this the way you took it. His post, to my eyes, conveyed exasperation about the tendency of some people on this list to fret endlessly about eBay (I don't like eBay! eBay is evil! Why do we have to talk about eBay? A "shill" on eBay bid up a price to the point where I couldn't get a good deal to brag about at the club!). Chris climbed on his chair and went on to declare: Flyer is done. Let me repeat that in case you did not get it. FLYER IS DONE! All there is in Flyer has been made. It doesn't matter what they might have done. It doesn't matter whether or not they would have had an impact if they survived, because they didn't survive. In your mind is the only place you are going to get a 45 degree crossing. To which Paul, still looking for the TV remote, replies: Chris, how sad that you seemed to have lost your imagination! All right, you admit you came on a bit strong because the perceived "tone" of Andy's e-mail bothered you. But hey, some of us like Flyer because it's a hobby--something fun, a diversion from the pressures and turmoil of everyday life and work--and dreaming about "what might have been" is part of that fun. Not to put too fine a point on it, but people who can dream are *exactly* the sort of people who started and nurtured the A. C. Gilbert Company. Chris went on to say: I am into S-gauge trains. E-Bay is one spot to buy them. If I see something fraudulent there I am going to report it, both to e-Bay and to my friends on this list so they will be aware. To which Paul replies: I admire your dedication and diligence, Chris. Folks like you help folks like *me* enjoy the hobby more. I'm glad you're aboard, as much as I'm glad guys like Andy McBride and David Dewey and others are aboard to stare into the future with me to imagine what might have been.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5540	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: compassion

Gee, Chris, I wish I'd scrolled down through my digest to read this part of your *second* post to the list. To wit: "There is simply no room here for engaging or even suggesting restrictions on the thoughts of contributors to this list beyond asking that all posts be about the common thread of S-Gauge trains. For some people the temptation to be a censor is so strong, they cannot help but bring that controlling mentality to bear. I, for one, will simply not stand for it." Chris, this is how I interpret your final statement: For some people--such as me, Chris Guzzo, who is deeply offended by Andy's non-threatening suggestion to form a list to monitor eBay activity--the temptation to be a censor is so strong, I cannot help but bring my controlling mentality to bear. I, for one, will simply not stand for it. To that end, I will take things personally, polarize the issue, and communicate my feelings in a judgmental manner to make sure I am understood. I'm sure you didn't mean to say that, Chris. I'm the guy who admires your tenacity and dedication, remember? But if you ask me, it surely comes across that way. That's sometimes the problem with e-mail: It's often too easy to misinterpret words on a screen. On the other hand, it wasn't hard for me to understand Andys' apology to you, Chris. He seemed genuinely sorry that you may have misunderstood his post. And his suggestion about a list devoted to policing eBay seemed sincere. Chris, can you show the same compassion for Andy and *his* position? Because that is the only *true* way to maintain an open, honest dialogue between people. Even people who may disagree about eBay and Flyer fantasies. Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5541	From: Alan Evans	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: AM Code 148 NS non-weathered track orders

Fellows: A member of my club (Central Ohio S Gaugers) ordered 80 pieces of American Models Code 148 NON-WEATHERED nickel silver track and track joiners. Ron at AM notified me tonight that he is out of the non-weathered nickel silver and my 80 pieces aren't enough for another run of it. My club member ordered 60 pieces of NS non weathered flex track a month ago and LOVES IT!! The flexibility of it over weathered track is 100% better. I mentioned this to Ron but he feels the weathered 148 brass is the best. Have you tried to bend it to even a 48" diameter? NOT EASY! If you've worked with any code 100 NS flex you know how nice the non-weathered product is. So, I'm looking for other S gaugers who would be interested in placing an order for the Code 148 Nickel Silver 3 foot flextrack to DO IT. List price is $9.00 per section. If there is enough ordered Ron can re-run it soon. Appreciate anyone (and everyone's!) help on this. Thanks. - Alan Evans Central Ohio S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5542	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Fantasy, imagination, Flyer, e-bay

My computer doesn't 'get' e-bay, but I am delighted to learn about it on s-list. It's a new technology, and there are problems with it, but they are interesting ones. Would hate to have to join another list just to get this info. "...staring into the future to see what might have been", speculating about what Flyer didn't make, strikes me as kind of silly, but Mssrs Dewey, McBride, et al. are pleasant guys and helpful too so I say have at it. On S-list of course. I am more interested in things Flyer thought of producing but didn't. There are some interesting prototypes out there. I am also interested in seeing my trains in the context of the sales war between Lionel and Gilbert. For instance, either the Flyer GP-7 was a response to the Lionel FM Trainmaster or vice versa. The battle to be the first with a working smoke unit right after WWII is well documented, but many other shots big and small were fired off in this sales war. Also enjoy tracing the connections between prewar and postwar Flyer. To take just one example, the end railing on the 930 and other cabooses is descended from the original standard gauge version, went through an O gauge incarnation, and ended up in S, being refined each time. Somehow, learning about these things adds to the fun of owning/operating/ repairing these trains. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5543	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Track

<<what's an average price for used Flyer straights and curves? And do any of the dealers on this list sell such items?>> How many hundred pieces would you like, at .50 to .75 each???? (As long as you're willing to clean them of normal oxidation and "grime"...........but no significant rust). Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5544	From: J. F. Haughney	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: New Lionel Flyer

My local dealer called me today to tell me that the Lionel Barrel Loader that I order was in. He also said that Lionel was also manufacturing a Sante Fe GP-9, some oil tank cars and a SanteFe caboose. Anyone heard anything about that. Other thing was that I was in Cincinatti last week awaiting connections for a plane. I read an article in the Cleveland paper about the local government or some museum developing a layout showing how Cincinatti looked from the turn of the century through about 1950 e.g. famous bldgs etc. They kept mentioning several times about how the model was done in S gauge. I lost the article that I ripped out of the paper unfortunately. Anyone know or seen anything about this layout. They had a picture and it looked quite impressive. Joe Haughney North Shore and the Cape

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5545	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: Re: Rolling stock questions

Here are some answers: Message: 19 Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 20:02:50 -0500 From: ironhors@... Subject: Rolling Stock Questions Here are several for those of us who have been around in scale for a few decades, I am starting to forget which of the old mfr's did what. As you may expect, I'm trying to digest the stuff from Will Estes estate a little more, at least so I can plan what to do with it. Who made an Andrews truck that looks much heavier than the NorthEastern/Kinsman one; with brass wheelsets that have insulating axles that are about 3/16" between the wheels. Several of these pair look brass under the paint. S Scale Loco & Supply made some with leaf springs. Kemtron made ones with coil springs (more likely). Also, there are a pair or two of arch-bar trucks I cannot ID. Also probably Kemtron S or converted On3. I understand the Culp trucks all had metal wheels that had the cast-iron ribbing on the back, there are a few of those also, but didn't Nixon, Midgage, etc, also make freight trucks?? Yes, also Superscale/Perma-Bilt, with various wheelsets. Perma-Bilt boxcars were all 40' or 50', right?? Nope. One of those that came from Will scales out 43' and is otherwise same as the rest. Anyone know what the deal is?? My Perma-Bilt catalog (don't YOU have one?!?) lists 40' & 50' boxcars and 40', 42' & 50' reefers. I have a Miller catalog that lists a few 42' Perma-Bilt boxcars. The Rex zamak truck and the Ace truck, Bettendorf, as I remember, were very similar except one had brake shoes cast into the inside of the sideframes--which one whas which--I have some of both represented. Rex has the brake shoes. I believe the Rex axles are slightly longer too, but would not swear to it. I hope this helps - I have quite a few S scale catalogs from the 1950's, and try to aquire at least one pair of each type of S trucks ever made, and so have quite a few examples on hand. Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5546	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/20/1999
Subject: For Paul

The Flyer 784 hump set, (catalogued around 1955 or 56, I think) was a partial trestle set (6 pieces) with one RC switch (your choice RH or LH), 3 straight and two curved track, a bumper, some track locks and an uncoupler. You can make one up from available parts, as did Gilbert. The Texas and Pacific and Chicago Northwestern diesels were probably chosen for their colorful "safety stripe" livery. Gilbert liked color. As to the fantasy diesels, the traditional story, which may eventually go the way of the mythology of the 334AW whistle, is that old A.C. had not managed to set up licensing arrangements with the railroads of his choice. Either the roads did not want him to use their names at all, had prior committments to Lionel, or more likely, wanted money for use of their names. Gilbert produced the Southern (Rocket), Missouri Pacific (Comet), and Maine Central (Silver Flash) in order to meet planned production deadlines in spite of the licensing failure. Eventually an agreement was reached with the Missouri Pacific as well as with the Union Pacific and paved the way for two of Gilbert's most beautiful passenger sets. The Silver Streak, which dates much earlier, predates the agreement with Santa Fe. Every train got Alco PA's because A.C. could not pen a deal with Electro-Motive. Gilbert did get an agreement, finally, with GM, over the use of F units, but not until 1959, and then it was limited to HO production. Such was the hold Lionel had on GM licensing. If you can scout up the 1959-60 ACG HO catalog (a map-style folded pamphlet, really) you can see the American Flyer North Coast Limited under Gilbert "F" unit power. It is odd that there was never a Flyer Alco FA unit. These were much more commonly used than PA's and could have been released in many road names. They would have been within easy reach of Gilbert since they already produced Alco products and since the FA would have been a minor re-tooling of the PA molds. Gilbert chose lines for variety and color. He also chose them for price. If they could be licensed on the cheap, or better yet, for free, then they joined the American Flyer Lines. Flyer did not just get done in by the advent of HO or race car sets or the fall of the popularity of real railroads. Those were hefty factors. So was a rarely mentioned factor, one that is responsible for the rebirth of toy trains; the aging of the baby boomers. As we got older, we played less with our trains and more with our cars and our books and our girlfriends. But the corporation could have weathered these storms and still be viable today, ready to cash in on the toy train resurgence, but for one really big factor. A.C. Gilbert was a horrendously mismanaged company. Toward the end, with an aging, overweaning, top-heavy management, it was unable to quickly adapt to a changing marketplace and got caught flat-footed at every twist. This company was hip deep in materials. Look at Hobby Surplus, still selling off original Gilbert boxcars, gons and cabooses 40 years later! And they did not get all of it. Tons of product was buried as landfill. Dig up the roads in New Haven and you will find all those missing Pikemaster panels. Gilbert's money was tied up in product that no longer would sell and they could not switch over production to new lines quickly enough or with enough quality. Look at how pre-historic their race car sets look next to Aurora or Strombecker sets of the same era. Look at how little they ever produced in HO and how they degraded the "S" line to where it was only a simple toy. It had divested itself of it's diversity, having branched off it's small motor division and ridding itself of its small appliances. This was not the same company which quickly shifted production to help the war effort in the forties. This was a stodgy monolith, as slow to institute change as was its aging directorate slow to accept change. And so, it died. There is a great deal of literature out there on the rise and fall of A.C. Gilbert, but nowhere does it say what happened to the factory samples of the Rocket, Comet and Silver Flash, the ones with the actual roadnames, for demonstration to the railroads. Now those would be worthy collectibles! Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5547	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Re: Cincinnati Union Terminal Layout

The layout will be in the Cincinnati Union Terminal and is being handled by the Cincinnati Museum center. We have been sending rolling stock to them for this project. I am trying to get the museum to stock "S" gauge trains. Don Thompson "J. F. Haughney" wrote: > > Other thing was that I was in Cincinatti last week awaiting connections > for a plane. I read an article in the Cleveland paper about the local > government or some museum developing a layout showing how Cincinatti > looked from the turn of the century through about 1950 e.g. famous bldgs > etc. They kept mentioning several times about how the model was done in > S gauge. I lost the article that I ripped out of the paper > unfortunately. Anyone know or seen anything about this layout. They had > a picture and it looked quite impressive. > > Joe Haughney > North Shore and the Cape > -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets to arrive today

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5548	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Nashville!

Hi, In a few weeks we are going to Nashville for R&R.....are you aware of any places down there to check out any flyer products...or worthy sites to see....thanks, Jeff --

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5549	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: NIB S stuff, possible repost

Was in a train shop today looking at things and lo and behold, some guy in his 70's wandered in and consummated selling a bundle of S ga stuff. Included were lots of NIB in red and white boxes. The stack was close to 3 ft high.... And in separate wrappers I could discern - Flyer 326 and A-A rocket I think. Silver flash set $950, Mopac pass same $ NH Electric set $675, Nopac GP9 set-caboose $425 UP 484 #336 $595(?) and at least 20 cars separate. The sets may include addtional cars?????? IF U R interested in the inventory, and it is JUST in, call Seth at The Train Barn Kalamazoo MI 616-327-4016 1 to 7 pm tues thru fri, sat 10 to 5. All given as a public service to the list. L. ( O Oh, O!!!!!!!!! ) Not on last list, musta got lost in the mail.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5550	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Digest Number 410

Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com Chris, can you document any of these items? It would be good reading if you can. >Either the roads did not want him to use their names at all, had prior >committments to Lionel, or more likely, wanted money for use of their >names. Did A.C. not have the underlying belief that he was selling toy trains of his name and not the names of the real railroads? But, gradually was forced to see that Lionel had become more successsful selling real road names? Lionel apparently paid more attention to what the salesmen reported than did A.C. >Gilbert produced the Southern (Rocket), Missouri Pacific (Comet), and >Maine Central (Silver Flash) in order to meet planned production >deadlines in spite of the licensing failure. Do you mean to say Gilbert made tools, dies for plastic and painting without knowing what they were going to produce? >Every train got Alco PA's because A.C. could not pen a deal with >Electro-Motive. Do you have access to the agreements between Gilbert and the roads? These would make a great story in themselves. > ...and our girlfriends. That has been going on for many years. How do you think you baby boomers occured? What about the advent of rockets and "atomic" stuff killing off toy trains? >A.C. Gilbert was a horrendously mismanaged company. Toward the end, ... Was this not only after ACGCo. was sold to "Lassie" who drug it around like a dead amimal and took the production to the "far east" for fast and cheap costs which produced the piles of inventory which did not sell? >division and ridding itself of its small appliances. Did that business not become crowded with other competitors such as "Sunbeam" after 1946 and Gilbert did not have the money or secure the money to change and compete in all it's different product markets? Sounds like you could write a good book on this if you have the documented information. Sideline: One of my neighbors several years ago told me that Lionel was always more "scale" and more realistic than American Flyer "S". I asked him if he ever measured it? No he hadn't, he was a college professor and knew what he was talking about. A.C. was always fighting an uphill battle. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5551	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Digest Number 410

Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com Chris, can you document any of these items? It would be good reading if you can. >Either the roads did not want him to use their names at all, had prior >committments to Lionel, or more likely, wanted money for use of their >names. Did A.C. not have the underlying belief that he was selling toy trains of his name and not the names of the real railroads? But, gradually was forced to see that Lionel had become more successsful selling real road names? Lionel apparently paid more attention to what the salesmen reported than did A.C. >Gilbert produced the Southern (Rocket), Missouri Pacific (Comet), and >Maine Central (Silver Flash) in order to meet planned production >deadlines in spite of the licensing failure. Do you mean to say Gilbert made tools, dies for plastic and painting without knowing what they were going to produce? >Every train got Alco PA's because A.C. could not pen a deal with >Electro-Motive. Do you have access to the agreements between Gilbert and the roads? These would make a great story in themselves. > ...and our girlfriends. That has been going on for many years. How do you think you baby boomers occured? What about the advent of rockets and "atomic" stuff killing off toy trains? >A.C. Gilbert was a horrendously mismanaged company. Toward the end, ... Was this not only after ACGCo. was sold to "Lassie" who drug it around like a dead amimal and took the production to the "far east" for fast and cheap costs which produced the piles of inventory which did not sell? >division and ridding itself of its small appliances. Did that business not become crowded with other competitors such as "Sunbeam" after 1946 and Gilbert did not have the money or secure the money to change and compete in all it's different product markets? Sounds like you could write a good book on this if you have the documented information. Sideline: One of my neighbors several years ago told me that Lionel was always more "scale" and more realistic than American Flyer "S". I asked him if he ever measured it? No he hadn't, he was a college professor and knew what he was talking about. A.C. was always fighting an uphill battle. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5552	From: W.; Thomas Boussum	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Why no Flyer freight sets?

This post is sent in response to Bob Walsh's message in the Digest issue 410 regarding the lack of Flyer freight sets. It would have been relatively easy to make a 34x series 0-8-0 switcher into a Consolidation (2-8-0) or Mikado (2-8-2) simply by adding a pilot and, in the case of the Mikado, trailing truck. But apparently freight operations with a true to prototype locomotive at the point was not a vision that Gilbert had. Bob correctly points out that toward the end of the steam era passenger power (Hudsons, Pacifics, etc.) was often pressed into freight service. The book "Reading Power Pictorial" shows a picture of a P7sb Atlantic (the prototype for the A.C. Gilbert Atlantics at the point of a work consist in the Tamaqua, PA yard in about 1949. It certainly plays into the hand of we "transistional era" modelers to see this, but it still remains a fact that most freight was hauled by Consolidations, Mikados, etc. The Reading class T1 Northerns were built for heavyweight, high speed freight service. I do not believe that they ever were operated as passenger locomotives except in Reading "Rail Ramble"excursion service after the line had officially dieselized. (I'm talking 1959-1964, roughly, here.) Please note: for someone who might have observed a T1 in passenger service, I said "I do not believe..." In ralroading strange things have happened. My Dad used to tell me about the Reading I8 Consolidations (1500s) being used as passenger locomotives. As he put it, "They ran like a deer." I have an 'O' gauge Flyer Pennsylvania K5 boiler shell that I plan to "kitbash" into a Consolidation if I can find a set of high-rail freight drivers (preferably spoked). That would give me a nice piece of freight motive power. W. Thomas Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5553	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Rail Passes

Through the years a lot of model railroaders have enjoyed the exchanging and/or issuing of railpasses. A new wrinkle has been added. To take advantage of PC's and the innernet, several model railroaders have been designing and issuing "Electronic Rail Passes". I've jumped in and created one for my railroad. I was wondering if anyone on the list wants to exchange electronic rail passes. A neat site to get an idea of what goes on is: http://members.iquest.net/~mhampton/Passes_Received/RailPassExchange.html My new railpass page is at: http://www.innernet.net/rhoffman/webdoc8.htm Regards, Roy Hoffman S-scale Penn Western Model Railroad NMRA MER SMD. NASG www.innernet.net/rhoffman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5554	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: those Flyer Baldwins switchers

Not that anyone cares, but curiosity prompted me to e-mail my friend Dave Ingles at TRAINS Magazine about Flyer's M&StL and T&P Baldwins. Here's Dave reply: "M&StL ("Louie" to us, not "Minnie") did have a Baldwin swr or two, though not sure offhand which type or how many stacks. T&P did not; it was all-EMD, though parent MoPac had Baldwin goats. They were all-black in those days, tho, so if Flyer's swr is T&P road yellow and black striped, it's way off base. (Or am I thinking of the Flyer T&P Geeps?)" So there you have it. Gilbert *could* have slapped a Baldwin in, say, Pennsy or SP paint instead of T&P, if only to reach a larger audience. But then, it wouldn't be the A. C. Gilbert we've come to know and love, would it? Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5555	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Gilbert's demise

WOW! What a great post, Chris! I devoured it like a good detective story "who-done-it"! I've often wondered about Gilbert's demise. You answered many questions. I wonder how many other folks, like me, flinched they read the word "landfill." Yikes! Your comment about us baby boomers losing interest in trains in favor of girls, cars and Beatles' music is often over-looked, but seems to me like a key part of the puzzle. I have a book about marketing disasters that traces some of Gilbert's problems to the growth of discount stores in the early 1960s. Bewildered, Gilbert responded to the challenge with cheapened product (including the Pikemaster line). While the move did little to gain new market share, it DID manage to alienate long-time Gilbert customers. The quality foundation the company built its reputation on quickly crumbled at frightening speed. I can see the fingerprints of disaster on every Casey Jones 4-4-0 I see. Lionel obviously faced the same marketing problems in the 1960s. How did it weather the storm? Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5556	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Re: Paul Nelson's AF book

In a message dated 10/20/99 9:10:30 PM, fasttrack2000@... writes: << --- RBubeck327@... wrote: > > In a message dated 10/20/99 6:09:37 PM, > fasttrack2000@... writes: > > Oh, and while we are on the subject, it is best to treat Paul Nelson's book > as a good read, but not an AF 'bible'. > To which Paul replies: Um, care to elaborate, RB? I'm not enough of an expert to spot the "flat spots" in the book's wheels. >> I do not want to get into a full review of Paul Nelson's book. I am glad that he did put it together and published it since this does promote the hobby. It would have been better, however, had Don Heimberger hired someone very knowledgeable to proof the final text and galleys. There are a fair number of typos and errors. A few examples: 1. Page 19 - The 21140 Northern is stated to have been built with a plastic tender. Every sample I have ever handled (including my own) has a die cast tender. To the best of my knowledge, none with a plastic tender has been uncovered (Dave Garrigues has never seen one.). Kalmberg gets this wrong (most likely), too. 2. Page 91 - The figure caption for the 300AC misstates the years of manufacture. The four piece die-cast 300AC's were built in 1949-50. 3. Page 155 - The fiction of the Gabe with the plastic shanty is repeated. The mechanism will not fit in side the plastic shanty, let alone function. 4. Page 130 - Mike Kolosseus is misquoted regarding the Track Gang. Nelson quotes Kolosseus in saying that his track gangs have four posts and are postwar. I have talked with Mike on this point by phone and his units are three connector units and he believes them to be prewar. And so on....... Again, I think it is great that Paul Nelson has put out his book. I enjoyed reading it and the color pictures are great. Unfortunately, there are enough typos, misquotes, etc. to cause one to raise a caution in taking every detail in the book too literally. Hence, my comment that it is a good read, but not an AF 'bible'. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5557	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: A Late Apology

Andy McBride: I apologize for jumping all over you a second time. Understand, please, that I do not get these e-mail messages throughout the day, I see them as one lump on the One-List archive site after all has been said. I am certain I would have been in a different frame of mind had I seen your answering post. I have a tendency to react strongly when I perceive someone suggesting that he doesn't want certain types of posts on the list. If it is about S-trains, I feel it belongs here. We don't need to argue that point as long as we all have working "Delete" keys. Again, sorry for all the bullet wounds, I'll put my gun away now. Take as an olive branch my post about Gilbert in response to Paul Schneider's question regarding the hump set. Don't you think the Alco FA was a Gilbert natural that never got born? Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5558	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: AF HO 433 0-6-0

I'm primarily a post-war AF S-gauge hobbyist, but in our house we have a little HO, n, and O. The kids especially get a kick out of running n and HO. Anyway, I recently purchased an AF HO 433 0-6-0, and in the process of shopping noticed a curious difference between 433's. Mine has pulmor tires on the rear drive wheels (like most S steamers), but several of the 433's I looked at had their pulmor rubber on the blind drivers of the middle axle. Were both 433 configurations sold, but at different times? What pulmor tire band replacement part should I look for? Are they the same P/N as would be used on the blind driver models? Thanks in advance for your help. PS I'm glad I bought the 433. It's one cute little engine with good looks, speed, smoke, and choo-choo. But even after reviving, running, and appreciating it for the 40-something classic that is, I'm glad Gilbert built S. It felt even better to set a large motor 326 on the tracks with a string of cars and run some real iron.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5559	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Best "coal" to use?

What do you like to use with your coal loader? I bought some Ultra-Stone for fish bowls at a pet store. I sure looks the right size, and really looks like coal, but was wondering if you've found something you like - - plastic coal, scenery gravel by LifeLike, etc. The whole idea of using something abrasive around those fine small motors and axles has me wondering how sane it is to use coal loader in general. I've heard of some operators prefer using sand-blaster sand or black sand because it's more true to scale, but that's tempting fate too much IMHO. PS My coal loader is an AF 785.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5560	From: RRDART@aol.com	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Re: Best "coal" to use?

My coal? I went to Charlottesville and Clifton Forge, VA and got my coal out of the C&O coaling towers there. (If I thought that I could I'd take a couple of ties home and cut them to scale.)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5561	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Re: Best "coal" to use?

I use Woodland Scenics coarse HO black ballast or coal, can't remember which. Compared to the original stuff it works great in my coal loader, pickup is better with the clamshell and dumping into the cars is much better. David_Horn@... wrote: > > From: David_Horn@... > > What do you like to use with your coal loader? I bought some Ultra-Stone > for fish bowls at a pet store. I sure looks the right size, and really > looks like coal, but was wondering if you've found something you like - - > plastic coal, scenery gravel by LifeLike, etc. The whole idea of using > something abrasive around those fine small motors and axles has me wondering > how sane it is to use coal loader in general. I've heard of some operators > prefer using sand-blaster sand or black sand because it's more true to > scale, but that's tempting fate too much IMHO. > > PS My coal loader is an AF 785. > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5562	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: S Fest & Other Stuff

Howdy Friends B.T.S. will not be attending the S Fest this year. Just too many projects needing attention around here, and the gent from Milwaukee, Bill Bateman, who has helped us in the past by manning the table, will be attending the MRIA show representing his main employer, Wm. K. Walthers. Sorry we will not get a chance to visit with you. As for the projects, we have just put a newsletter in the snail mail this afternoon. So by Monday, you should all know what is happening around here besides dodging hurricanes! Just lowered some of the prices on the Odds and Ends Page.... http://www.btsrr.com/btsodd01.htm All for now. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5563	From: george	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: A scaler awash in a sea of Flyer

Each night reading these postings I realize I must be awash in a Flyer sea. Actually fun reading many of the Flyer postings but maybe there is another scaler out there daydreaming and wondering like myself is Bill Wade pulling out of standard S to do a EBT like PBL did for western narrow gauge? Will anyone ever make a number 4 or 5 switch in Code 100 rtr like Shinohara's 6's and 8's? Don't know why I wonder, I don't have enough money to buy all the good S scale stuff out there now, but would go into debt for another re-run of the scale length Pullman cars.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5564	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Re: Best "coal" to use?

In a message dated 10/21/99 5:45:39 PM, David_Horn@... writes: << What do you like to use with your coal loader? >> Life-Like No. 1105 works well for me. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5565	From: Ross M Roberts Sandra L Roberts	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: S Related Items

PM Hobbies & Gifts has introduced some S items Item Description Material Price 1001AS Coil Load (1 Insert & 6 Coils) $8.50 1001CS Coil Load (1 Insert & 5 Coils) $7.90 1010 Pipe Load, Gondola $4.50 1011 Pipe Load, Gondola $6.00 1012 Pipe Load, Gondola $6.00 1015 Pipe Load, Flat Car $4.50 6057 Rural Passenger Station Wood/Vinyl $13.50 6059 Small Bleacher Wood $9.50 6061 Pallets (4) Wood $3.50 6069 3 Barrel Rack (Base) Wood/Alum $4.00 6070 3 Barrel Rack (Upper) Wood/Alum $4.00 6087 Box Car Lumber Load Wood/Vinyl $7.00 6071 Rural Milk Platform Wood $15.00 http://www.pmhg.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5566	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: marketing disaster book

After I deleted the message it dawned on me... Whom ever posted about the book on marketing disasters what is the title of the book. As far as the Pikemaster era stuff, when I was 5 it was pretty neat stuff. Now that I am a couple of decades older I realize that it just like the products of my favorite car company, Studebaker. Doing the best they could with what they had to work with for a market that was disappearing. Every bad decision was compounded by another bad decision. It's a shame that both companies had to die Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5567	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: If the Flyer die went elsewhere

A quick thought about Flyer: From what I know from buying K-Line and a few other O items. If L sent the Flyer dies overseas (which we all know won't happen anytime soon) The product would be the same as it ever was but... If Williams can produce a GP-9 diesel in major and more obscure colors that is as good or better as any other diesel and sell it for around 125.00... And K-line and Industrail can sell a good O/O27 boxcar for 20.00 to 25.00... What could our friends in the Far East do with a few S-gauge geeps, hoppers, boxcars and the like. I don't think that they would sell for 200.00, 45.00 and 45.00. Like I said, those dies are going nowhere. until then AM and S-helper Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5568	From: Dale Smith	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Gilbert licensing agreements

I read Chris Zizzo's post with interest, but also a bit of skepticism. Everything I read prior to this indicated that AC never paid anyone for licensing rights. I even heard that the Celanese chemicals tank car became Gilbert Chemicals after A.C. asked, "How much are they paying us to put their name on the car." A.C. Gilbert lived in a different era when people weren't willing to pay a manufacturer for the privilege of advertising his products, via tee shirts, caps, etc. We had a discussion about this some time ago on the list and from what Don Thompson indicated, these sort of licensing demands are a manufacturer's worst nightmare. What is new here is the thought that not only the road name would need to be licensed but also the locomotive brand. One puzzling point to me is if A.C. couldn't license models of G.M. products, how did he get out the GP7 in demonstrator colors no less? Was that a separate licensing deal with GM that got past the octopus hold of Lionel? Dale Smith

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5569	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/21/1999
Subject: Re: If the Flyer die went elsewhere

I understood that the L dies and molds went to Mexico. When that did not work the had them shipped back and some where along the trail a lot of them dissapired. Some say they are lock in a customs warehouse. but no one knows where. Customs won't look for them, won't let anyone else look for them and does not keep a record of what may be in their warehouses Larry Jeffrey Tangeman wrote: > From: Jeffrey Tangeman <jt12313@...> > > A quick thought about Flyer: > > >From what I know from buying K-Line and a few other O items. > > If L sent the Flyer dies overseas (which we all know won't happen anytime > soon) The product would be the same as it ever was but... > > If Williams can produce a GP-9 diesel in major and more obscure colors that > is as good or better as any other diesel and sell it for around 125.00... > > And K-line and Industrail can sell a good O/O27 boxcar for 20.00 to 25.00... > > What could our friends in the Far East do with a few S-gauge geeps, > hoppers, boxcars and the like. I don't think that they would sell for > 200.00, 45.00 and 45.00. > > Like I said, those dies are going nowhere. > > until then AM and S-helper > > Jeff Tangeman > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5570	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: AF NORTHERN-PLASTIC TENDER

A recent posting raised the question of a AF Northern loco with a plastic tender. In Greenberg's Guide to AMERICAN FL YER S GAUGE, Vol. 1, page 79, it states that 21140 Union Pacific: 1960; 4-8-4......... Black -painted die-cast three-piece tender(body, front, and frame) or black plastic tender; die-cast side six-wheel trucks...... J.Patterson and M. Newcomer Collections. FYI, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5571	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Re: A scaler awash in a sea of Flyer

george wrote: > > From: "george " <george@...> > > Each night reading these postings I realize I must be awash in a Flyer sea. Actually fun reading many of the Flyer postings but maybe there is another scaler out there daydreaming and wondering like myself is Bill Wade pulling out of standard S to do a EBT like PBL did for western narrow gauge? Howdy George Well, you can stop wondering.... B.T.S. is not pulling out of S standard gauge. I think I recently announced THREE standard gauge Baldwin steam locomotives, an 0-6-0 and two 2-8-0s, and eluded to a series of laser-cut standard gauge car kits that will follow. We have been talking with Greenbrier Railroad Models and it seems that the FM Trainmaster will be the next diesel. I will admit that the sales from the E.B.T. items have been 3-4 times the average sales of ANY new S standard gauge items. And since Di and I don't eat unless we sell stuff, that does make the E.B.T. a high priority around here. On a personal level, a few months ago I decided that the next S layout, to be built after the move up north in a year or so, will be mostly Sn3 with some standard gauge. Since I have fell in love with the E.B.T., that will be the theme. Figure that by making it around 1953, the E.B.T. will still be busy haulin' coal, and there is a good assortment of PRR stuff that will be appropriate to use. Of course, my time line has a slight warp, so there will be a pair of PRR GP-30's, complete with correct antenna, seen in the E.B.T.'s Mt. Union yard! ;-) > Will anyone ever make a number 4 or 5 switch in Code 100 rtr like Shinohara's 6's and 8's? I doubt that we will see that any time soon. The cost of doing the molds is just too high to justify. In the last 10 months, we have sold about two dozen Old Pullman #4 and #5 switches in total. That tells me that either there are not many folks building layouts or everyone is satisfied with the Shinohara offerings. With sales needed in the thousands to offset the costs, this would be a hard sell for any manufacturer unless they just won the lottery. Of course, I am not always right... Tomalco might announce them tomorrow! Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5572	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Gilbert's Gory Days

Dale Smith wrote: >Everything I read prior to this indicated that AC never paid anyone for >licensing rights. I even heard that the Celanese chemicals tank car >became Gilbert Chemicals after A.C. asked, "How much are they paying us >to put their name on the car." >If A.C. couldn't license models of G.M. products, how did he get out >the GP7 in demonstrator colors no less? Was that a separate licensing >deal with GM that got past the octopus hold of Lionel? Charles L. Day wrote: >Did A.C. not have the underlying belief that he was selling toy trains of >his name and not the names of the real railroads? But, gradually was forced >to see that Lionel had become more successsful selling real road names? >Gilbert made tools, dies for plastic and painting >without knowing what they were going to produce? If I were to write a historical piece on the A.C. Gilbert Co., I would do very careful, documented research. The trouble with posts is that they are essentially "the published word," when actually, this is equivalent of a bull session in a hobby shop. My information on Flyer comes from a variety of published sources that I have read over the years. Many are books and articles to which you also have been exposed at one time or another. Some are more obscure sources. I try not to tell fish stories, but sometimes I do find myself passing along some growing legends! I have painted for you the picture I have of Gilbert's operation as taken from my sources, but I am open to correction. I started the story with a caution: "the traditional story, which may eventually go the way of the mythology of the 334AW whistle". For years I believed that repair shops were ordered to remove whistle parts of any unit that came into their hands because of the patent infringement suit by Lionel. Now I've heard that that whole patent deal is more urban myth than fact. I cannot verify either viewpoint. I've heard the Celanese story two ways. The second version has Gilbert attempting a licensing deal and then backing out, with Celanese refusing him the right to use their name. Regardless of which story proves to be true. the interesting point about the chemical tank car is that, here is a definite example of Gilbert producing a sample and paint scheme prior to having rights. It underscores the story of him having readied the Maine Central, Missouri Pacific and Southern diesels before securing a deal. By the way, I said nothing about paying for rights for these. Chances are, A.C. promised nothing more than train sets for the executives kids! That the F units were blocked from Gilbert's use by a Lionel/Electro-Motive deal is another very widespread story. I am surprised you are not familiar with it. His early production of the 370 demonstrator geep apparently got him through GM's door (with more ingratiating samples) and prevented Cowen from stopping that. It sounds like GM let Lionel have one design and Gilbert have the other, but that is all surmise on my part. Eventually big L produced Geeps while Gilbert went without F's. Then again, AC wasn't virulently blocking Lionel from the Geeps. If you look at most of Lionel's early steamers, they say "Lionel Lines" on the tender. No railroad markings exist at all. Neither manufacturer was making scale models, no matter what their promotional literature said. They were making high end toys, for a once or twice in a lifetime major purchase. The most important name to advertise was their own. To this day, people I know call my Flyers "Lionels". This confusion, especially after Gilberts switch to S-gauge brought about compatibility issues, must have suffused the marketplace. I believe that was the number one reason that "American Flyer Lines" rode the side of every tender. Product identification could not be strongly enough stressed, especially to the actual consumer, the parent, who was there in a store without the guidance of the expert, their child. I don't think I want to write a book. Look through the posts and see what happened to poor Paul Nelson! Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5573	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Re: AF NORTHERN-PLASTIC TENDER

In a message dated 10/22/99 4:35:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, TPDavis7@... writes: << A recent posting raised the question of a AF Northern loco with a plastic tender. In Greenberg's Guide to AMERICAN FL YER S GAUGE, Vol. 1, page 79, it states that 21140 Union Pacific: 1960; 4-8-4......... Black -painted die-cast three-piece tender(body, front, and frame) or black plastic tender; die-cast side six-wheel trucks...... J.Patterson and M. Newcomer Collections. FYI, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C. >> I am WELL aware of that entry, but I fear that Kalmberg may have gotten it wrong, too. (This was why I cited Dave Garrigues as never having seen one.). There are recurring errors in the AF Greenberg Vol. 1 that one wishes that they would have eliminated (or qualified) by now. For example, 336 Northerns didn't come from New Haven with 'small motors', but the Greenberg book persists in repeating this as a valid factory variation. In any case, the Nelson book speaks ONLY of a plastic-tendered 21140, whereas all 21140's I've observed (including my own) have die-cast tenders. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5574	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: 21140 plastic tender

I think I can clear up this issue of whether the 21140 was made with a plastic tender shell or not. It's only gossip I heard in a hobby store years ago, but it is interesting and does make sense. Apparently there was once a notoriously unscrupulous Flyer collector (I don't recall his name). He manufactured / counterfeited the pieces he wanted but didn't have. He was known to have had some plastic tender shell made up, including challenger tender shells with which he made some counterfeit 21140's. Having never seen one of the faked shells, I don't know how they were made. The reason that this discussionin the hobby store occurred was that the collector in question had died and his collection was being broken up for sale. The general subject of the discussion was whether bidding on any of his items would be worth while. It was concluded that it would not be a good idea because one could not trust anything in the collection. I was fortunate enough to be given a 21140 set for xmas when I was a kid. Thus, I am the original owner. This loco has a metal tender shell. It has plastic driving wheels. It was sold through Savoy Merchandise Co. on W. 23rd st. I believe that quite a few of these locos were sold there. I have seen half a dozen 21140's and they all had metal tender shells. The Greenberg book is probably in error. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5575	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Re: A scaler awash in a sea of Flyer

Hey George, I don't think Billy Wade is abandoning us standard gauge scale guys, just take a look at his coming steam locomotive kits. The EBT stuff is there to prove there is life outside Colorado. I hope Billy has success with these kits, I'd rather build and modify a kit rather than tear into a brass loco. Perhaps we'll see more kits like these from BTS. Although, it would be nice to have some code 100 pre-fab switches other than #6 and #8. By the way, check out the S-Scale one-list, that's where most of the scale talk resides. S-Trains is more active because, based on list population, the Flyer Folks appear to outnumber us Scale Guys about 4 to 1. (Not a critcism, just observation.) Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5576	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Fall S Fest

I need a little help in getting to the Fall S Fest in St. Louis next weekend. Mainly: Where in St. Louis is it located? When I made reservations in August, the girl on the phone said it was in a shopping mall on the by-pass. I'm sorry folks, but I don't know where that is! I'll be coming into St. Louis from the west on I-44. Been there, or through there, several times and I can get over the bridge into Illinois, but where do I need to point to for the Holiday Inn? Any assistance would be appreciated, as I don't desire to wander around St. Louis during rush hour! I HOPE to see some of you there! Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5577	From: Tom Young	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: E-Unit

Hi Fellas, Just finished re-assembling my 372 after giving it a good cleaning. Now I have a hum / buzz in the E-unit Can anyone tell me what could be causing that? Thanks, Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5578	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Re: A scaler awash in a sea of Flyer

In a message dated 10/22/99 7:46:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wadepub@... writes: << > Will anyone ever make a number 4 or 5 switch in Code 100 RTR like Shinohara's 6's and 8's? >> The Shinohara 6 is a 4.5 and not a 6

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5579	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: outrageuos ebays

Everyone has talked about how outrageous the flyer stuff has been but my favorites are the model railroader magazines check out this one: <A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=185583181">htt p://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=185583181</A>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5580	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Re: A scaler awash in a sea of Flyer

RRDART@... wrote: > > From: RRDART@... > > In a message dated 10/22/99 7:46:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > wadepub@... writes: > > << > Will anyone ever make a number 4 or 5 switch in Code 100 RTR like > Shinohara's 6's and 8's? >> > The Shinohara 6 is a 4.5 and not a 6 > The above statement was written by "george " <george@...>. I (wadepub@...) simply responded to it. I have 'no comment' about the Shinohara trackwork. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5581	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Re: A scaler awash in a sea of Flyer

Bill is indeed correct. I inadvertently attributed it to him.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5582	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: New Survey

Hello, There is a new survey for the S-Trains community. Record your train related experience with Ebay online auction: ---- Possible answers are: o I have never used Ebay. o Only bought trains, over all good experience. o Only sold trains, over all good experience. o Bought & sold trains, over all good experience. o Only bought trains, over all negitive experience. o Only sold trains, over all negitive experience. o Bought & sold trains, over all negitive experience. To vote, please visit the following web page: http://www.onelist.com/surveys/S-Trains Note: Please do not reply to this message. Survey votes are not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the ONElist website. Thanks! S-Trains Owner

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5583	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Gilbert's demise

The main reason the Gilbert line died is, A.C.Gilbert died first. The second reason, His son cheapend the quality of the product. Or so I'm told. And his son died a few years later. (I hope I got the facts right) S0 - - Who is left to run the company with the original quality A.C. strived for? All companies should have a board of directors that will keep up the quality of the original owner. The owner should have a stipulation in his will that will keep the company viable for years to come. How many realy good products were lost because the surviviors (if Any) of the deceased did not know how to run the company or had no interest.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5584	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, October 24, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5585	From: george	Date: 10/22/1999
Subject: S Scale

I was gratified by the many reponses to my awash posting. I wasn't aware of the Sscale@onelist, but will remain also on this list because I enjoy a well done layout whether it is scale, hi-rail, AF or narrow gauge. Also appreciate the info on switches, both about Shinohara and Banta switches. I tried laying my own once, tried twice, tried three times and then bought rtr. I resemble the old NMRA character called "Thumbs".

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5586	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Digest Number 412

Roger H. says, >The main reason the Gilbert line died is, A.C.Gilbert died first. >The second reason, His son cheapend the quality of the product. Or so >I'm told. And his son died a few years later. > (I hope I got the facts right) < Don't forget the company was sold around 1960 to Lassie. Lassie's management went cheap, offshore and wrong. Then Lionel bought the company. Is it possible that movies, dog food and trains don't mix any better than flatware, tableware and trains? charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5587	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Digest Number 412

Roger H. says, >The main reason the Gilbert line died is, A.C.Gilbert died first. >The second reason, His son cheapend the quality of the product. Or so >I'm told. And his son died a few years later. > (I hope I got the facts right) < Don't forget the company was sold around 1960 to Lassie. Lassie's management went cheap, offshore and wrong. Then Lionel bought the company. Is it possible that movies, dog food and trains don't mix any better than flatware, tableware and trains? charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5588	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: GE RTV silicone molding coupound-

Anyone using this stuff, be it large or small parts, to duplicate items? Pretty pricey but R U happy with it? L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5589	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: GE RTV silicone molding coupound-

Dear Good "L", We used to make parts in polyester resin and lead/tin alloy with GE RTV silicone molding compound. Be advised that there were many different types of this product for all kinds of applications. I think we started with RTV E for the metal and then used RTV 700. for the resin . Several things you need to keep in mind when making the molds. I guess the two major ones are location of parting line and venting. If you have any specific questions, I will try to remeber how we did it. Don Thompson LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Anyone using this stuff, be it large or small parts, to duplicate items? > Pretty pricey but R U happy with it? > L. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5590	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: New SHS webpages

> We are pleased to announce that our Showcase Line web pages > (http://www.showcaseline.com) have been completely overhauled and > expanded by our new webmaster Jon Marinello. Jon made our web pages > easier to navigate with many new quick loading images and by including a > split menu screen. Another change is that most images can also be > viewed in a larger, more detailed format. For the first time, all of > our products can be ordered on line. Through Jons efforts, our web page > has won a "1999 Golden Web Award". > We want to thank Jon for a job well done and hope that everyone > takes a few seconds and visits our new web pages. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5591	From: Don Thompson	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: Rebuilts & 3 car sets arrive

We are now shipping the new rebuilts and 3 car sets. All roadnames are in and are now available. These can be ordered from you hobby shops or direct at http://www.showcaseline.com/rebuiltboxcars_in_stock.html The most popular rebuilt is the MP "Eagle Merchandise Service" car, while the most popular three car set is the UP. The three car sets include one rebuilt boxcar, stock car and OB wooden boxcar. They can be ordered at http://www.showcaseline.com/3carboxcarsets_in_stock.html The response to the three car sets has been surprisingly good for a new product. We were unsure of the demand, so these may be in limited supply. 00344 Santa Fe 3 car set 00345 CNW 3 car set 00350 NYC 3 car set 00352 Union Pacific 3 car set 00346 Great Northern #1 00347 Great Northern #2 00348 MP Eagle #1 00349 MP Eagle #2 00351 Roscoe, Snyder & Pacific#1 00353 Ball Lines#1 -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5592	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: How L got the Flyer tooling

I remember reading an article in CTT of how L got the dies and tooling. The firm liquidating Gilbert had the dies and wanted to get rid of them fast sooo. The firm literally GAVE them to L just to get rid of them, no buy, gave as part of a deal to liquidate unwanted assets. I will try to find the citation for accuracy Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5593	From: plotnick	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Starter Sets and All Aboard Panels

Concerning recent conversations on starter sets. I recently purchased some All Aboard panels. Walking around the train show with them, I heard a lot of "what are they" and "what a great idea." I know of nothing like them in today's toy train market. If a new strarter set was ever created, it might worthwhile to consider not just one piece with roadbed (e.g. the new Bachmann and Atlas, and older Kato HO track), but a complete scenic system. -Roy Plotnick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5594	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!

I am back from York where I purchased a number of LTI coaches #6-48925. I have a problem. You can't couple two coaches together and run them around an AF track curve without them derailing. The couplers seem to cause the trucks to twist and since the couplers don't swivel they derail. I also bought a dining car #6-48934 which appears to have the same style truck but different couplers, and I can couple a coach to ether side of the dinning car, and it does seem to run OK. Does anyone know if this is a known problem with LTI passenger cars?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5595	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: lti coaches and flyer curves

i've got the UP, MP,NH, and Flash sets and they track fine on Gilbert curves. the only problem that i encountered was one of the add-on coaches for the UP set had the wheels installed "out of phase" with the others-L uses metal couplers so, as with link passsenger sets, having your wheel orientation the same as on the prime mover is critical.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5596	From: Michael Greene	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Haunted House anyone?

Saw this on rec.models.railroad -- don't see any reason it can't be scaled for S in case anyone needs a quick Haunted House for their layout... Michael Download this free haunted house kit - just print off any color printer and assemble. Can be scaled for HO or N This free download is at http://thortrains.hypermart.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5597	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!

I believe it is a known problem with the metal-bodied couplers used for a few years. You will also find intermittent shorts through these couplers after the paint wears through! (DUMB idea, metal couplers on power-pickup trucks!! More 3-rail thinking/engineering!) A change of couplers should solve the problem. BTW, wre the NP coaches real cheap? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5598	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!

I spent considerable time debugging my LAF NP cars so couplers wouldn't drag and short or snag on AF switches, but didn't experience a lot of derailing. The exception was one car that kept derailing in reverse and it turned out to have a narrow gage on one truck which was hard to find but easy to fix. I regularly run mine on AF track without derailing so there's hope. You have to play around at the spot(s) where it occurs and check both track and car(s) that derail. David Dewey wrote: > > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > I believe it is a known problem with the metal-bodied couplers used for a > few years. You will also find intermittent shorts through these couplers > after the paint wears through! (DUMB idea, metal couplers on power-pickup > trucks!! More 3-rail thinking/engineering!) A change of couplers should > solve the problem. > BTW, wre the NP coaches real cheap? > S' > David D. > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5599	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!

Question- you're not using pikemaster are you? When I said mine run OK on AF curves I meant the standard older style 20" radius AF track. Chuck Harrington wrote: > > From: Chuck Harrington <paketpet@...> > > I am back from York where I purchased a number of LTI coaches #6-48925. > I have a problem. You can't couple two coaches together and run them > around an AF track curve without them derailing. The couplers seem to > cause the trucks to twist and since the couplers don't swivel they > derail. > > I also bought a dining car #6-48934 which appears to have the same style > truck but different couplers, and I can couple a coach to ether side of > the dinning car, and it does seem to run OK. Does anyone know if this is > a known problem with LTI passenger cars? > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5600	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!

No Pikemaster, standard AF track and it does it on every curve, regardless of speed. I have 3 different cars that do this, all the same 1992 manufacture coach. The 1994 made dinner car, has different couplers, and will run fine with a coach at each end, but coach to coach derails. There are problems running over a switch as well... Now if I were to replace couplers (hate to carve up a brand new car), where would I get quality couplers? I purchased some from RF Gardina that were plastic, but I consider them to be very inferior to the original AF couplers. I have many of the original AF slotted couplers, but would need the type with the hole for the LTI coaches. Chuck Harrington

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5601	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!

> I don't know if I got them "cheap", but they were $50 each in their original boxes; they had quite a few of them. I intended / intend to use them with my AF 21551 which previously was coachless. I also bought a LTI NP B unit with rail sounds. It seemed to be a coupler problem; just a little surprised that I have to do surgery on a MINT LTI passenger car!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5602	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!

In a message dated 10/23/99 5:41:59 PM, paketpet@... writes: << No Pikemaster, standard AF track and it does it on every curve, regardless of speed. I have 3 different cars that do this, all the same 1992 manufacture coach. The 1994 made dinner car, has different couplers, and will run fine with a coach at each end, but coach to coach derails. There are problems running over a switch as well... >> I used to own these pieces and I did not have major troubles with my samples. Suggest that you check the wheel gauge. Also, do the trucks rotate freely or are the truck rivets too tight? If others have suggested these, please excuse. I do not believe you need to change the couplers, although you might check the coupler weight heights. Some of these cars were made with the coupler weights fully inserted on their vertical stubs. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5603	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: AF fakes

In a message dated 10/23/99 6:17:25 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<Apparently there was once a notoriously unscrupulous Flyer collector (I don't recall his name). He manufactured / counterfeited the pieces he wanted but didn't have. He was known to have had some plastic tender shell made up, including challenger tender shells with which he made some counterfeit 21140's. Having never seen one of the faked shells, I don't know how they were made. The reason that this discussionin the hobby store occurred was that the collector in question had died and his collection was being broken up for sale. The general subject of the discussion was whether bidding on any of his items would be worth while. It was concluded that it would not be a good idea because one could not trust anything in the collection. >> In fact, the early Greenberg AF books listed MANY of this person's pieces as variations. When the story of the alleged-fakes rapidly spread, Greenberg removed ALL references to his collection from the next edition. I still have a set of audio and video tapes which "document" his collection of "rare" AF pieces! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5604	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: lti coaches and flyer curves

I am a stupid scaleguy asking: Except for quartering of drivers on steam locomotives, how on earth could you have wheels "out of phase??"

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5605	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/23/1999
Subject: Re: lti coaches and flyer curves

No, not stupid guy or question. Just a poor choice of words! With metal coupler bodies on AF trucks with electrical pick up (the truck picking up power from one rail) coupled to another car also with metal coupler bodies and electrical pick-up, both trucks need to be contacting the same rail, not opposite ones! Thus, the choice of "in phase" wording. Trouble with this is, the Alco truck sideframes are not set up to do this, the pickup shoes are all on the same side of the truck! So what to do with the locos?? Plastic couplers is my answer. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5606	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: Re: AF couplers

In a message dated 10/24/99 6:12:29 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << From: Chuck Harrington <paketpet@...> Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves! No Pikemaster, standard AF track and it does it on every curve, regardless of speed. I have 3 different cars that do this, all the same 1992 manufacture coach. The 1994 made dinner car, has different couplers, and will run fine with a coach at each end, but coach to coach derails. There are problems running over a switch as well... Now if I were to replace couplers (hate to carve up a brand new car), where would I get quality couplers? I purchased some from RF Gardina that were plastic, but I consider them to be very inferior to the original AF couplers. I have many of the original AF slotted couplers, but would need the type with the hole for the LTI coaches. Chuck Harrington >> We carry what I consider to be the BEST repro AF couplers available. The coupler itself is quality, and the weights are hard sintered metal....not soft castings. There are 2 or 3 other "brands" of repro couplers out there which are not stisfactory, in my opinion. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5607	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: Re: lti coaches and flyer curves

ironhors@... wrote: I am a stupid scaleguy asking: Except for quartering of drivers on steam locomotives, how on earth could you have wheels "out of phase??" Answer: On one axel the left driver connecting rod hole has to be exactly 90 degrees off of the right driver hole. All the other axel assemblies have to be exactly the same. If one is off a tiny bit, it will throw the entire axel and rod alignment off. After I put the wheels on (without rods) I will place the holes so they are straight up on top of the axis. screw on a connecting rod. With holes still straight up, look at the other side of the engine. The connecting rod holes and axel holes should be exactly horizontal to each other. Which puts them 90 degrees off of the opposite side. The connecting rod holes should align over those holes perfectly. If it is off a tiny bit. Reset the wheel that is off. If a wheel hole is not good and tight on the axel, it can shift and throw things out of alignment. A defective rod can throw things off. Holding the rod over the axel holes should have the axels dead center of the connecting rod holes. On one given driver, measure center axel hole to the center of the rod hole. All of the other drivers should be exactly the same. If one is off then that will throw your sequence off. A bent axel doesn't help. Badly worn holes don't either. looking down on the loco axel frame (And from the end). The axel should be 90 degrees to the frame. If it is not the the holes were not drilled straight in the frame. (defective frame) It takes only a tiny bit to throw off your driver sequence. Note: if your loco wobbles, but otherwise runs fine. Consider; Real steamers wobbled. This can be caused by a out of round wheel or bent axel. Roger Http://www.travel.to/cofa/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5608	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: Re: LTI NP coaches derail on AF curves!

Chuck Harrington wrote: You can't couple two coaches together and run them > around an AF track curve without them derailing. The couplers seem to > cause the trucks to twist and since the couplers don't swivel they > derail. Your couplers may be binding. Couplers made by differnt Mfgs. look the same at first, but may be not compatible. When coupled there should be some slop in the connection. A tight connection won't work on curves. The distance from the truck pivot hole and the end of the coupler should be the same. Improper mounting of the truck (left to right) doesn't help. If the coupler doesn't swing far enough to left and right then the coupler isn't suitable for the curves you have. (tight curves ? ) In relation to the body end the coupler shank pivot point should be the same on both coaches. Are the couplers the same size ? They should be. A coupler mounted on the body will never work with a coupler mounted on a truck frame of a different coach. Couplers mounted on a truck frame were intended for sharp radiuses. Another possibility: Looking down on the coupler; The thumb of the coupler may be binding against the shank of the other coupler. File the thumb down. Flashing from the mold process could be a problem. Remove it. (if Any) Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5609	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: A.C. Gilbert Tour

When I was in New Haven for the Gilbert plant tour....I spoke to one of the ex plant workers....I was told, when that plant closed its doors in 1967....their were tractor trailer loads of complete train sets loaded to the brim leaving the plant....no one seems to know where they are today

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5610	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: Re: A.C. Gilbert Tour

Lost train sets. HSS probably sold them for plastic scrap. They did sell off a lot of shells, etc. for the plastic. They've told me, "You don't want to know!" S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5611	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, October 24, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EDT (GMT-04:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5612	From: Dave Heine	Date: 10/24/1999
Subject: Apology for Layout Failure to Run (Dave Heine)

I'm apologizing to those that came to visit my layout Saturday 10/23, and during which I could not run any trains. After you all left, I did open up my Digitrax DCS100 and noticed an obvious internal problem. Of course that was the only required piece of equipment of which I do not have a spare, at least at this time. Moral - Always remember the corollary of Murphy's law that covers the case that a train layout always runs smoothly except when you have guests. Thanks for coming. Of course, seeing Frank Titman's layout probably more than made up for the deficiencies of mine <g>. Dave Heine Lehigh & Western Railroad (Sn3)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5613	From: Joseph F. Haughney	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Gentlemen Picked up the new Lionel Barrel loader. Same as the old AF as far as I can determine except it has a dual light pole in the corner next to the track opposite the house. Also dealer showed me a listing of three items to come out in Jan thru March 2000 in Lionel AF. Items appear to be SanteFe 'GP-9'?, tank car and a Sante Fe caboose. Also new Lionel Magnetic crane is pretty cool as compared to the old AF but depends upon your perspective on scale and collectability. Anyone heard any confirmation from other sources Joe Haughney North Shore and the Cape

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5614	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Fwd: virus alert

Dear Ones, I am often reluctant to pass these things along, but this came from a reliable source. Jo > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: David S. Lobel > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 1999 11:09 AM > > > To: SCP Staff > > > Subject: VIRUS ALERT FROM MICROSOFT > > > > > > EXTREMELY DANGEROUS > > > This information came from Microsoft yesterday morning. > > > Please pass it on to anyone you know who has access to the > > > Internet. > > > > > > You may receive an apparently harmless Budweiser screen saver, > > > entitled BUDDYLST.SIP. > > > If you do -DO NOT OPEN IT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, but delete it > > > immediately. > > > > > > Once opened, you will lose EVERYTHING on your PC. Your hard disc > > > will be completely destroyed and the person who sent you the message > > > will have access to your name and password via the Internet. > > > > > > As far as we know, the virus was circulated yesterday morning. > > > It's a new virus, and extremely dangerous. Please copy this > > > information and e-mail it to everyone in your address book. We need to > > > do all we can to block this virus. > > > > > > AOL has confirmed how dangerous it is, and there is no Anti virus > > > program yet, which is capable of destroying it. Please take all the > > > necessary precautions and pass this information on to your friends, > > > acquaintances and work colleagues. > > > > > > D.S.L. > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > > > > > David S. Lobel > > > Sentinel Capital Partners > > > 777 Third Avenue, 32nd Floor > > > New York, NY 10017 > > > > > > (212) 688-3100 > > > (212) 688-6513 (Fax) > > > http://www.sentinelpartners.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5615	From: John Foley	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: The Scale Card

>Delivered-To: foley164@... >Date: Mon, 25 Oct 1999 11:37:30 -0700 >From: "Jose Lopez Jr." <josepj@...> >Reply-To: josepj@... >Organization: The Scale Card and "A Shot in the Dark" Fine Art Photography >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; U) >X-Accept-Language: en >To: foley164@... >Subject: The Scale Card Hi Folks Here is a interesting email I got today. You may want to check out John > >Here is a tool that all of your members at large will appreciate knowing >about. Our Scale Card and Rule are accurate to 1/2000 of an inch [real >world]. Your members will find that this is one of those tools that, >after they use it they will wonder how anyone serious about model >building and detailing ever got along without one. If you believe, as I >do, that this is a useful tool for your members, how about a link from >your site? Check us out at: http://www.thescalecard.com > >Jose > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Jose Lopez Jr., "A Shot In the Dark" Fine Art Photography or The Scale >Card >Send E-mailto:josepj@... >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5616	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: The Scale Card

John, I have been carrying "The Scale Card" in my wallet for about four years. It is credit card sized and has proved to be an invaluable tool when searching the toy sections of K Mart, Target, etc. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5617	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: track plan book, hacking & swing AF track

Does anyone have a copy of the Grenburg/Kalmbook book on AF track plans they'd like to sell/loan/lease me? Please e-mail me off-list if you do. Second, as I lay out my AF empire on the floor of my apartment I've come to the brutal conclusion that I need "shortie" sections of straight track. What bothers me is that a friend claims I will eventually have to "cut" track to make my layout plan work. I know I'm a newbie and somewhat naive, but isn't the whole point of a modular track system like AF (or SHS, for that matter) that you can lay it out without hacking & sawing track? Or are there simply some configurations of track that won't work with "modifications"? Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5618	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: [Fwd: My Forums for Roger Hinds]

Thought some of you might want to check out the following. Roger mydelphi@... wrote: Model Railroading Forum > http://www.delphi.com/modelrr/ (1377 New Messages) > RAILROAD > http://www.delphi.com/railroad/ (15235 New Messages)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5619	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: [track plan book, hacking & swing AF track]

To make short sections of track, I sometimes use track that has major rust or other damage. If you did not cut this track you would need to throw it away. When I say rust damage I mean as in rusted clear thru. Paul Yorke Model Trains / 3D Photography / Computer Support ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5620	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: cutting AF track

I often have to cut odd sections of straight AF track for my floor layouts. Almost never have to cut curved track. It only takes a few seconds and is no big deal. Use a hacksaw; clamp the track upside down to tabletop between pieces of scrap wood, mark with a triangle, and cut through. Dremel/cut off wheel can also be used. Clean up cuts with a file, esp. on rail tops. Flyer track has 12 sections to a circle which produces tangents of 30, 60, or 90 degrees, or combinations thereof. These have to be compensated for with cut sections. It is very important when using sectional track such as AF to not force the curved sections slightly out of position by attempting a force fit. -- persistent derailments will occur. The best way to avoid this is to cut straight sections to the correct length to allow the curved sections to sit properly. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5621	From: M.McConnell	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Track/Switches

I'm working on putting up my Flyer "Christmas" layout again this year, and I don't want to have a repeat of the switch problem I had the last time, perhaps someone can give me a hint on how to adjust the switches. I have several switches that don't hold their position when a heavy engine, such as a 336 or 326 hits it at any speed above a crawl. The problem occurs when the engine enters the switch from the curved leg, the weight of the engine actually throws the switch part way, then of course, any scenery nearby gets adjusted. . . Running the engine through the switch from any other direction doesn't seem to have a problem. I've noticed the frog on the worse of the switches rocks back and forth, and it seems to be slightly below the railhead on the adjoining rails. In fact, the 336 will actually have a gap between the driver and the frog on the corners. On another issue, does anyone have any information on Flyer producing black track. While cleaning my track, I noticed about a dozen pieces that have the rails (curve and straight) that seem to be "blued" a black color. On a few of the better pieces of track, the railhead is also black, the other sections have a shiny railhead, probably due to years of cleaning. I'm just curious if a previous owner colored the track. Actually, I rather like it, it looks good on the black roadbed. Thanks! Michael (Ok, break time is over - back to laying track!!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5622	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: [track plan book, hacking & swing AF track]

I had to cut track to accomadate my layout...I used damage tracks to make stubbys...using a dremmel tool works great..Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5623	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: cutting AF track

A figure eight crossover layout with Flyer required 1/2 straights and 1/2 curves to get a 90 deg. crossover. These came with the figure eight sets. Flyer marketed 1/2 sections, but nowadays you generally have to make your own. The trick to cutting is to get a fine hack saw blade or a small metal cutting saw witha fine blade unless you have a dremel, which is best. I cut mine in a vise between wooden slats which hold the track against vibrating while sawing. Jarcho wrote: > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > I often have to cut odd sections of straight AF track for my floor layouts. > Almost never have to cut curved track. > > It only takes a few seconds and is no big deal. Use a hacksaw; clamp the > track upside down to tabletop between pieces of scrap wood, mark with a > triangle, and cut through. Dremel/cut off wheel can also be used. Clean > up cuts with a file, esp. on rail tops. > > Flyer track has 12 sections to a circle which produces tangents of 30, 60, > or 90 degrees, or combinations thereof. These have to be compensated for > with cut sections. > > It is very important when using sectional track such as AF to not force the > curved sections slightly out of position by attempting a force fit. -- > persistent derailments will occur. The best way to avoid this is to cut > straight sections to the correct length to allow the curved sections to > sit properly. > > Tom > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5624	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: CB&Q PA

I've heard, (and it may be from "Gilbert's Historic American Flyer Trains") that the Silver Streak was originally intended to have CB&Q (Burlington) markings. For some reason, Gilbert decided not to do that, and to use the Silver Streak markings instead. The CB&Q never had an Alco PA on their roster, but the AF paint scheme seems similar to what the CB&Q would have used if they had bought PA's. Did Gilbert really intend to mark these engines for the CB&Q and then change for some reason? Did the CB&Q think seriously about buying PA's and then change their minds after Gilbert had gone ahead with the paint scheme? Does the CB&Q / Silver Streak rumor have any basis in fact? Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5625	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: jumpy Flyer switches

Michael: there are at least three things you can do to counteract jumping frogs in Flyer switches. In order from least to most invasive, they are: Put a strip of cardboard under the outside (long straight rail) to raise that side of the switch by about 1/16 inch. If you are using rubber roadbed, you should have a piece of cardboard under the whole switch too because the roadbed raises the surrounding track by about 1/16", the switch must be raised by a corresponding amount. You can disassemble the spring and plunger locking mechanism under the switch, place the spring on a phillips screwdriver shaft, and stretch each coil out a little. This will make the locking action stronger when the switch is reassembled. You can replace the star spring washer under the head of the stud that holds the frog to the base. Push the end of the stud out from the underside. This can be tricky because it's easy to crack the stud hole with whatever you use to push the stud end out with. It may cure a frog that is just too loose, though. A loosely mounted frog is different from a frog that jumps because the lock doesn't hold. Sometimes the base is cracked through the stud hole. The frog will not be held tightly. You can try to repair this with glue or use the switch parts to repair other switches with intact bases. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5626	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: CB&Q PA

In a message dated 10/25/99 10:36:33 PM, NYC17819@... writes: << I've heard, (and it may be from "Gilbert's Historic American Flyer Trains") that the Silver Streak was originally intended to have CB&Q (Burlington) markings. For some reason, Gilbert decided not to do that, and to use the Silver Streak markings instead. The CB&Q never had an Alco PA on their roster, but the AF paint scheme seems similar to what the CB&Q would have used if they had bought PA's. Did Gilbert really intend to mark these engines for the CB&Q and then change for some reason? >> Gilbert did consider doing the No. 405 in Burlington and stated so in an early 1952 catalogue. They later changed to "American Flyer" with red stripes and yellow lettering when Gilbert made the marketing decision to use the Alcos as a means of advertising. See page 49 of "A. C. Gilbert's Heritage", Heimberger Press, which has a collector column covering this by Dave Garrigues and Peter Jugle. The 405 was considered for other color schemes such as the yellow stripe version with black lettering (This is how it is depicted 'in the distance' on the front of the 1952 landscape format consumer catalogue, D-1677.) A legitimate sample decorated in this fashion did show up at the last York in the possession of Ray Mohrlang. In the front of the 1952 catalogue on page 3 of D-1677 you will also notice that a maroon stripe with black lettering was considered, too. The CB&Q did not have Alco PA's, but that wouldn't have stopped Gilbert from decorating a toy train in those colors. The NP didn't have PA's either. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5627	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: Track/Switches

In a message dated 10/25/99 9:03:08 PM, mmcconn@... writes: << On another issue, does anyone have any information on Flyer producing black track. >> The black track is early production made in 1946. Such track can be seen1946 photos of sales layouts at the Gilbert Hall of Science. It does look pretty sharp, doesn't it? RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5628	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/25/1999
Subject: Re: Track/Switches

Complex question, complex solutions, unfortunately! Switches may need a tune-up Locos may need regauging. Black track is from early production, I'm told due to scarcity of Cadmium for the plating. OK, so what's this mean? Tuning up switches: The "frog" should not rock sideways. When it throws, the inside edge should be a nice clean transition, the plastic Point and the inside of the frog should line up. This can be adjusted by LIGHT tweaking of the "tails" of the frog, and the rail it rests against. When moving the pivot rivet, support the plastic base carefully, to avoid cracking it! Explaining this is easier done with drawings! Tom mentioned increasing the tension on the detent spring, good idea too, also check to see that the detent is properly adjusted, note that the mounting hex-head screw is in a slot to allow adjustment. I have a 336 that used to drive me crazy going through switches, to the point I never ran it! Well, when I got my K335, and found that it negotiated switches, I realized it wasn't just the heavy weight of the 336 causing the problem. Found it was out of gauge! the guard rails on the switches really do serve a purpose, they keep the loco from opening the switch as it goes over the point. What should the dimension be? Hmm, good question, my big locos are in storage, so, can't get to them right now, sorry, HEY TOM!! maybe you can give us some "back-to-back" dimensions? THANKS! Gotta go, family stuff happening. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5629	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/26/1999
Subject: Re: cutting AF track

Not a crossover,. It is a 90 degree crossing. A crossover is two switches that take you from one track to another parallel track Larry Chuck Smith wrote: > From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> > > A figure eight crossover layout with Flyer required 1/2 straights and > 1/2 curves to get a 90 deg. crossover. These came with the figure eight > sets. Flyer marketed 1/2 sections, but nowadays you generally have to > make your own. The trick to cutting is to get a fine hack saw blade or > a small metal cutting saw witha fine blade unless you have a dremel, > which is best. I cut mine in a vise between wooden slats which hold the > track against vibrating while sawing. > > Jarcho wrote: > > > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > > > I often have to cut odd sections of straight AF track for my floor layouts. > > Almost never have to cut curved track. > > > > It only takes a few seconds and is no big deal. Use a hacksaw; clamp the > > track upside down to tabletop between pieces of scrap wood, mark with a > > triangle, and cut through. Dremel/cut off wheel can also be used. Clean > > up cuts with a file, esp. on rail tops. > > > > Flyer track has 12 sections to a circle which produces tangents of 30, 60, > > or 90 degrees, or combinations thereof. These have to be compensated for > > with cut sections. > > > > It is very important when using sectional track such as AF to not force the > > curved sections slightly out of position by attempting a force fit. -- > > persistent derailments will occur. The best way to avoid this is to cut > > straight sections to the correct length to allow the curved sections to > > sit properly. > > > > Tom > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5630	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/26/1999
Subject: A last gasp- Reality check, S vs. O?

Well I took someones suggestion to more or lesss get my head out of the sand and see whats really around, so couple trips to some train stores (up to 125 mile round trip) and also buy some other mags, like Toy Trains and whatever. So my eyes were opened and find O Oh, Oooooo! theres a lotta stuff in O and at everyones price range. I been bizzy looking at bigger current stuff. Enuf odds and ends of operating carz and whatever to keep my grandkids and me happpy. Likewise in variety of cars. Even kids cars!!!!! Lookit there eyes pop at the whale unloader, sliding a 8" choi along with water into what usta be a 55' hopper.... Well U get the idea!!!!! It are ALL out there. Even an oil rig using an old bubble light. Whats funny is that in spite of not having to deal with reverse loop wiring (3 rail) some of those Ohhhhhhh carz sure seem to sit high! But maybe its mostly the O27 only stuff? I might even take that ride to Deeeeetroit to lookat AM stuff, if I can mentally budget the 280 mile RT... Sstill wonder why no new operating carz in S, its not rocket science, its switch machine technology. But dream on, Lars. Guess we gotta live on 40 or 50 year old technology for the 'fun stuff'... (thank goodness for Timex-dont need watchmakers anymore!)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5631	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/26/1999
Subject: Re: Track Plans book

<<Does anyone have a copy of the Grenburg/Kalmbook book on AF track plans they'd like to sell/loan/lease me? Please e-mail me off-list if you do. >> Paul et al.... Although "Kalmberg" no longer prints the strictly AF Track Plans book, they now offer a "Toy Trains Layout" book for both O and S. It contains quite a few S plans, in various complexities. I think it is far better than the original AF book, and it is about the same price. We carry it at $9.50 Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5632	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/26/1999
Subject: power to the people

What does The List recommend for a modern power pack/transformer (is that the same thing?) to operate Flyer? I have "universal motor" AF steamers and one Lionel/Flyer EP5. I'd like something equal to or more powerful than my 15B transformer. A friend tells me a modern power pack will have a button or somesuch device to blow my EP5 horn. True or the result of sucking too much Flyer smoke? One last question: I know Flyer "Universal Motors" operate on AC or DC (or so I understand). But do engines such as the 336DC *only* work with DC? Or can they be easily converted to work with AC transformers? Seems like I see lots of DC Northerns and 0-8-0's for sale, more than their AC equivalents. Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5633	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/26/1999
Subject: Flying Yankee

I had a thought to run by this group. When the real "Flying Yankee" is put back into service I am sure there will be a grand event. Which would mean presentations of different kinds. I bet there will be a lot of momentos and gifts as well. I wonder if the people in charge would be interested in models of the train to hand out. Perhaps someone would like to have models of the "Flying Yankee" to sell during that period. North Conway scenic railway seems the most likly choice. Last I knew the "Flying Yankee" will based at their attraction and run by them. It wouldn't surprise me if they could sell a hundred models during the event. They might however require track and a power pack for the model. Is it worth checking out do you suppose? Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5634	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: template

Well... As I enter Layout Planning Hell, I ask the list the Question of the Ages: Is there an AF track template? You know, something I can use to plan layouts on paper instead of, say, working on the railroad videos that are supposed to be my *real* job? Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5635	From: TPDavis7@aol.com	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Re: template

Paul, I have a "S" Gauge Track template from CTT inc., Dallas, Texas. It is a tinplate(American Flyer) track template and uses a scale of 1:12. It has all of the AF track section, switches and the 90 degree x'ing, plus the K-line wide radius curve and the long straight section. It should be availabe from any well stocked model railway store. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5636	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Re: Xformer

Check out the MRC O27, just reviewed in latest Toy TRains or O Ga mag. It did super. About $135 , no shocks to ground with this one. and excellent performance. I converted one of my Atlantics to DC, seems to work on AC but others say no, tho I do not run it on AC. Hmmm or does the standard L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5637	From: Scott Holm	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Transformer whistle buttons and running DC engines on AC

-- "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> wrote: > A friend tells me a modern power pack will have a > button or somesuch device to blow my EP5 horn. True or > the result of sucking too much Flyer smoke? The only Flyer whistle that will work with the button is the 314AW which uses the Lionel DC signal superimposed on the AC supply method. LTI produced Flyer engine's whistles and horns can also be activated by the transformer button. The only way to activate the regular flyer whistles is with a whistle controller that sends an oscillating signal on the AC supply which is fed directly into and reproduced by the speaker in the engine. > One last question: I know Flyer "Universal Motors" > operate on AC or DC (or so I understand). But do > engines such as the 336DC *only* work with DC? Yes the DC engines will not work on AC. The armatures will buzz without moving if fed AC current. > Or can they be easily converted to work with AC transformers? They can be converted to work with AC by using a rectifier, and if you want to run in reverse, a reversing unit. A large capacitor can also be used to smooth out the DC output of the rectifier and increase the power. I did this with a 332DC and with the Capacitor the engine ran noticeably faster. I do wonder if it's too much though; The DC output going through the reverse unit and to the armature measures 29 volts! But it runs great and smokes like crazy. The wires from the tender truck posts are connected to the coil of the reversing unit (I first tried connecting the DC to the reversing unit coil, but it was too hot.) The tender posts are also then connected to the AC leads on the bridge rectifer (I used a 6amp one.) Then the two two DC outputs of the rectifier are connected to the outermost contacts of the upper reverse unit finger and the outermost contact of the lower reverse unit finger. The remaing two inner contacts, (one from the upper and one from the lower,) are then connected to the motor. The capacitor if used would be wired across the DC leads of the rectifier, being very sure to maintain polarity (They usually have a ---> pointing to the negative lead.) =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5638	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: details, details

Pointing out the difference between a cross-over, a crossing, the CNN show *Crossfire* and a cross-dresser (the latter is quite common here in San Francisco!), Larry Jackman wrote: Not a crossover,. It is a 90 degree crossing. A crossover is two switches that take you from one track to another parallel track To which Paul Schneider replies: thanks for clearing THAT little detail up, Larry (although I'm sure everyone understood that Chuck Smith meant a crossing, not a cross-over). Speaking of little things, PLEASE delete or snip the rest of the post you're referring to--it drives us digest reaers crazy to have to scroll through the entire post! Thank you sir.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5639	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Re: S template

In a message dated 10/27/99 6:38:26 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<Is there an AF track template? You know, something I can use to plan layouts on paper>> Yes....In stock; $10, plus $1 shipping. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5640	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: More details

Hi Guy"S" ; I remeber an article many years ago on rail termonology. Crossovers were described as when one set of rails crossed over another set by way of a bridge or trestle. Crossing: rails going through another set. This could be at any angle. When you are transfering your train to paralel tracks this is switching over.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5641	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Re: More details

I love these "official" RR term things. I worked on the UP and John Santa Fe. My father worked on the UP all his life. Also had two uncles and a grand father who also worked for the UP all their life. When a train changes from one track to a parallel track it has crossed over so it used a crossover to do that. When my switch engine forman wanted to go from the third rail to the house track in Emporia Kansas He would say" let's cross over." We would line three sets of crossover switches. One set crossed us over from the third rail to the East bound Main. The second set crossed us over from the east bound main to the West bound main. Then the last set crossed us over from the West bound main to the tail track for the freight house. WHEN a railroad man or even an exrailraod man says a crossover is two switches that takes you from one track to a parallel track believe him. Larry Roger Hinds wrote: > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > > Hi Guy"S" ; > > I remeber an article many years ago on rail termonology.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5642	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Black Track

Yes, there was American Flyer track with black rails. I still have a half section with the $.25 price tag still on it. The other pieces have been in use. Alan Udy, RMHRs Idaho Falls, ID ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5643	From: Tim Burkhart	Date: 10/27/1999
Subject: Re: More details

Hello! I have seen the names change for different railroad tracks and switches many times over my 28 years of railroading, most of it on the former C&NW and the rest on the Union Pacific. Today we call a crossover a system of tracks and frogs that will cross over a train from one main line to another. When using the crossover, the dispatcher will refer to it as "CP"--- or control point blah blah blah. For example, he or she might call the train and inform the crew that the train will cross over at "control point 123" to run around another train or to clear track crews. On the old C&NW we used to call the actual switch and associated movable frog an interlocking plant. Many human failure derailments have been caused by crew members that fail to line both the the switch points and the movable frog when instructed to operate the crossover by hand. This usually happens when it is really cold out and the snow and ice buildup has defeated the switch point heaters......rare but it does happen. It is also important to remember that the switches are "dual control" switches....they operate by remote control or they can be operated manually-with permission. Also, there was some talk a few weeks ago about spring switches. I have only seen them in use at the engine house leads in South Morrill, Nebraska. They are useless because the rules require that the switch must be thrown by hand prior to running through it. Sort of a waste isn't it? I hope this helps clear up some confusion Tim Burkhart lawrence jackman wrote: > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > I love these "official" RR term things. I worked on the UP and John Santa > Fe. My father worked on the UP all his life. Also had two uncles and a grand > father who also worked for the UP all their life. When a train changes from > one track to a parallel track it has crossed over so it used a crossover to > do that. When my switch engine forman wanted to go from the third rail to > the house track in Emporia Kansas He would say" let's cross over." We would > line three sets of crossover switches. One set crossed us over from the > third rail to the East bound Main. The second set crossed us over from the > east bound main to the West bound main. Then the last set crossed us over > from the West bound main to the tail track for the freight house. > WHEN a railroad man or even an exrailraod man says a crossover is two > switches that takes you from one track to a parallel track believe him. > Larry > Roger Hinds wrote: > > > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> > > > > Hi Guy"S" ; > > > > I remeber an article many years ago on rail termonology. > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5644	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Loose AF Turnouts

The frogs in Gilbert switches often become loose and cause the problems described by M. McConnell Wednesday. Here's (most likely) the fix: Remove the pivot pin in the middle of the frog. Use a vise and press the pin out the bottom of the turnout. There is a copper colored washer with tabs on it. Either replace it (they are available from our parts dealers) or simply bend the tabs back in the direction they were originally made. Over the years, I believe the washer simply flattens out. Have not done this personally, but a friend showed me what to do. You can also check the operation of the switch underneath--sometimes, some fiddling around with the mechanisms (carefully!) will return them to the proper adjustment. Trial and error method, you know. Have fun with your Christmas layouts! Regards, Steve Pendleton bestofbreed@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5645	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Paul Schneider's Many Questions

Paul D. Schneider wrote: >I have "universal motor" AF steamers and one Lionel/Flyer EP5. I'd like something equal to or >more powerful than my 15B transformer. A friend tells me a modern power pack will have a >button or somesuch device to blow my EP5 horn. True or the result of sucking too much Flyer >smoke? One last question: I know Flyer "Universal Motors" operate on AC or DC (or so I >understand). But do engines such as the 336DC *only* work with DC? Or can >they be easily converted to work with AC transformers? Seems like I see lots of DC Northerns >and 0-8-0's for sale, more than their AC equivalents. >Is there an AF track template, something I can use to plan layouts on paper? MTH's Z-4000 would be my choice. It is powerful, can be bought at a discount, has plugs for future walk around throttles, and is equipped with whistle and bell controls for your modern rolling stock. I believe that the 334AW will also work from the whistle button. The 332 DC and the DC switch engine will not work on AC supplies unless you install a full wave bridge rectifier and a large capacitor on board. Directionality can be obtained using a traditional reverse unit to switch polarity. I've done it and it works great. You can also use an electronic reverse unit. You see a disproportionate number of these for sale because the DC scares off a lot of potential buyers, especially since this stuff is mostly operating stock and not pristine collector's items. The prices are still up there, though. I believe that Greenberg has a repro of the Gilbert Pike Planner for sale. Also, check Hobby Surplus Sales in Connecticut. They may have the originals. Enjoy, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5646	From: Dave Ewing	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: he's back

hi gang check out who is selling the miners train on ebay dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5647	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: black track

I currently have what, 20? pieces of Black Trak, its available soon if I make the switch to Ooooooooooo. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5648	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 416

A Gilbert American Flyer reverse unit can, with the addition of a bridge rectifier, switch the polarity to a DC motor. If you keep old S Gaugians, the information is in Sept./Oct. 96 issue. On page forty it shows a bridge rectifier AC input and the relay coil connected to the track pick-ups. Facing the contact end, the motor connects to the top left finger and the lower right finger. DC from rectifier goes to the other two. Smoke and light tap off the motor contacts in parallel. I've done this and it works! The 332's, if I remember use a different mounting for the reverse. There are also solid state devices that will function as AC sequence reverse units of DC. --- Nick Colleran (Reply to list since this is the second time this has come up this month.) _____________________________________________________________________________ >Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 17:08:38 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> >Subject: power to the people .....................deleted text...... >One last question: I know Flyer "Universal Motors" >operate on AC or DC (or so I understand). But do >engines such as the 336DC *only* work with DC? Or can >they be easily converted to work with AC transformers? >Seems like I see lots of DC Northerns and 0-8-0's for >sale, more than their AC equivalents. > >Paul Schneider >San Francisco >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5649	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 417

What's your preferred capacitor value guys? --- Nick Colleran ______________________________________________________________________________ >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:44:49 -0700 (PDT) > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> >Subject: ............. and running DC engines on AC > >Yes the DC engines will not work on AC. The armatures will buzz without >moving if fed AC current. > >> Or can they be easily converted to work with AC transformers? > >They can be converted to work with AC by using a rectifier, and if you >want to run in reverse, a reversing unit. A large capacitor can also be >used to smooth out the DC output of the rectifier and increase the >power. I did this with a 332DC and with the Capacitor the engine ran >noticeably faster. I do wonder if it's too much though; The DC output >going through the reverse unit and to the armature measures 29 volts! >But it runs great and smokes like crazy. > >___________________________________________________________________________ ____ > >Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 03:24:36 -0400 > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> >Subject: Paul Schneider's Many Questions ................ One last question: I know Flyer "Universal >Motors" operate on AC or DC (or so I >understand). But do engines such as >the 336DC *only* work with DC? Or can >>they be easily converted to work with AC transformers? >The 332 DC and the DC switch engine will not work on AC supplies unless you >install a full wave bridge rectifier and a large capacitor on board. >Directionality can be obtained using a traditional reverse unit to switch >polarity. ............. >Enjoy, >Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5650	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Toy Train Review Online

Toy Train Review Online recently interviewed Richard Maddox. Don Thompsom noticed that there was no mention of Flyer during the interview. Follows is Don's E-mail and TTRO's response. > What about Flyer? > Dear Toy Train Revue, > > Why no question about the future of American Flyer Lines at Lionel? > > Don Thompson > > A lot of Flyer fans questioned our absence of American Flyer questions for Lionel's new president. Here is our >response: we forgot about Flyer. However, we strive to right our wrongs and took advantage of a recent meeting >with Mr. Maddox to ask him about Flyer's future. He responded with a smile. > > "Tell them there are going to be some surprises." > Surpirses. Oh, boy. Can we stand the wait? Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5651	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: American Flyer New Production

Dear Fellow STrainiacs: The Lionel catalog was delayed in release. It can be found on line thanks to LOTS and the Houston TTOS. The first of two Flyer pages can be found at: http://www.netservers.com/~htos/lots_p46.html You can use this pages link to P. 47 to see the rest. This is the TCA list post that supplied this information.: ___________________________________________________ Jim Herron, President of HTOS (Houston Tinplate Operating Society) and Scott Kuntz, Vice President of LOTS (Lionel Operating Train Society) are pleased to announce that they have jointly provided the following link to view the entire Lionel Classic Trains Volume 3 1999 catalog. Due to an unexpected delay, this catalog was unavailable for distribution at the recent York meet. Both clubs pooled their resources to bring this information to the general public as a display of cooperation for the operator of Lionel trains and accessories. http://www.netservers.com/~htos/lots_indx.html ____________________________________________________ Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5652	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Photos of the NEW AF stuff

Ok folks, here's a link to an online L catalog, and even I must admit the new AF stuff LOOKS great! http://www.netservers.com/~htos/lots_p46.html and the next page http://www.netservers.com/~htos/lots_p47.html and the oil drum loader (list $159.95) http://www.netservers.com/~htos/lots_p55.html Tttthat's all folks! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5653	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 417

Back in the old days we used to use about 2000 microfarads as a value to really smooth out DC. However, engines with series wound motors start noticeably better at lower voltages when the DC is not filtered with the capacitor, so you may want a switch to cut out the capacitor. This is what some power supplies call "pulse power". I also noticed higher top speeds with a big capacitor but didn't own a voltmeter at the time. Moot point unless you actually like to run full throttle which I rarely do. In any case the higher voltage won't hurt the motors. However, watch your current draw and resultant motor heat. Nick and Becky Colleran wrote: > > From: Nick and Becky Colleran <colleran@...> > > What's your preferred capacitor value guys? --- Nick Colleran > ______________________________________________________________________________ > >___________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > > > >Message: 3 > > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:44:49 -0700 (PDT) > > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > >Subject: ............. and running DC engines on AC > > > > >Yes the DC engines will not work on AC. The armatures will buzz without > >moving if fed AC current. > > > >> Or can they be easily converted to work with AC transformers? > > > >They can be converted to work with AC by using a rectifier, and if you > >want to run in reverse, a reversing unit. A large capacitor can also be > >used to smooth out the DC output of the rectifier and increase the > >power. I did this with a 332DC and with the Capacitor the engine ran > >noticeably faster. I do wonder if it's too much though; The DC output > >going through the reverse unit and to the armature measures 29 volts! > >But it runs great and smokes like crazy. > > > >___________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > > > >Message: 11 > > Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 03:24:36 -0400 > > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > >Subject: Paul Schneider's Many Questions > ................ One last question: I know Flyer "Universal > >Motors" operate on AC or DC (or so I >understand). But do engines such as > >the 336DC *only* work with DC? Or can > >>they be easily converted to work with AC transformers? > >The 332 DC and the DC switch engine will not work on AC supplies unless you > >install a full wave bridge rectifier and a large capacitor on board. > >Directionality can be obtained using a traditional reverse unit to switch > >polarity. ............. > >Enjoy, > >Chris Zizzo > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5654	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Re: MRC 027

In a message dated 10/28/99 6:26:06 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<Check out the MRC O27, just reviewed in latest Toy TRains or O Ga mag. It did super. About $135 , no shocks to ground with this one. and excellent performance. >> Are you sure you have the right model # ??? This is a unit which I recommend and sell also. AC; dual control; Walk-around throttle; 270-watts. But, I can't even buy them WHOLESALE for $135 !!!! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5655	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Vacaction

Please remove me from the list until I return. I will contact you upon my return. Thanks you

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5656	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: 690s needed/pins for track

Hi. Does anyone have one or more AF 690 track terminal? I need them for my floor layout; I'd rather not solder the wires to the track. Also, does anyone make pins or clips that hold Flyer track together? Paul Schneider

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5657	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Questions on Train City

Have any of you had dealings with Charles Siegal of Train City? I see his ads all the time and he sells a lot on ebay and has now started his own auction site. I also see that he says he will no longer do train shows as there is more profit in selling on ebay. I have nothing bad (or good) to say about him, but I feel leary about dealing with someone who is only in the game to make more profit any way possible. Not that making a profit is bad, just that this seems to be kind of a mercenary thing and may be doing the market a bad turn by proliferating the ridiculus prices that things are selling for on ebay. Yes, I buy frequently from ebay sellers, a couple of whom frequent this list as well, but I only buy at prices that are equal or lower than I can get them for at local trains shows. Good prices at local shows also seems to be changing as I also have heard the comments that "I won't go any lower on the price as I can easily get that on ebay". Anyway, does anyone have anything to say about Train City? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5658	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: New Flyer SF geep

I must be getting old and small type is getting to me. Are they selling it for 149.99 Suggested price or 249.99 This SF fan wants to know Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5659	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Re: Questions on Train City

Hi Roger. Well, Charles used to have "junk lots" "$35 dollar worth of stuff for $25" I would buy two of them at a time, or more, as there was always way more than $35 worth of stuff. One lot included an NOS handcar chassis, another time there was a 292 Loco (the one you see on my site with wire handrails) PLUS all the other stuff that came with them. I always kept quiet about these deals, being a hoarder from way back!! Well, now he puts them on eBay and gets $100 or more for them, so he admitted to me, that (for him) it didn't make sense to sell them to me. I tried the guilt and loyalty line, but to no avail. Oh well.... So, Charles seems to be a nice guy, but he does like his bottom line! I suspect the new auction site will do him good, and if it doesn't it will fold. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5660	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Re: New Flyer SF Geep

Jeffrey Tangeman wrote: > I must be getting old and small type is getting to me. Are they selling it > for 149.99 Suggested price or 249.99 This SF fan wants to know > Jeff Tangeman Looks like $249.00 to me. Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5661	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: solid state reverse devices

Just B sure to read the fineprint when U buy one. One I ordered arrived and fine print said 'for can motors' and the suppliers catalog said NADA about that situation. Still awaiting my refund after almost 2 months! And didnt I see a review of an AC power pac that alllows U to bring the loco to a stop and have it start up again in forward motion? Was this for a loco with the old electromech E unit too??? anyhoo they call me 'L' (Other things too sometimes)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5662	From: Steve Roche	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Royal Blue painting

My thanks to David Dewey and John(toyuy) for their excellent advice on repainting a steam engine. I like the results so much so much on my 312AC that I took a junky 322 and turned it into a showpiece. My next project is a a 350 Royal Blue with handrails. Plan to strip and repaint. Would like to prevail again on the collective expertise on type of paint to use and should I put a clear coat on top of it? Also regarding the recent ebay flap on the 371, revicam was mentioned in a couple of postings and eventually pointed out that was not one of the shills. I recently sold some stuff to revicam on ebay and have even talked to him by phone. My dealings with hm have been very legit and straight forward. He just put a bid on the wrong thing at the wrong time. Anyway back to work. Steve

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5663	From: RobertE613@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Subject: Re: Questions on Train City

I bought a fair amount from Charles when I first resurrected my boyhood trains. He had a lot more Flyer then, it seems. Always courteous, prompt, honest, and friendly. Prices will go will the market takes them and I certainly don't begrudge a businessman making the most of his business. As to his recent musings on shows and the like, at least we know where he's coming from. In a message dated 10/29/99 6:21:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: > Subject: Re: Questions on Train City

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5664	From: Larry Oberman	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Train City

Hi, I have had quite a few dealings with Train City and they have all been good.Charles's descriptions have always been accurate and like David I have gotten some good deals. My last deal probably explains why Charles is selling more on Ebay.In March I was surfing the Train City site and Charles had posted some pictures of a recent American Flyer purchase.Lurking in the background of one of the pictures was a 752 coaler.I didn't see any listing of a coaler for sale, so I called Charles and asked about it.He said there were 3 in the collection.One was good but missing parts,one was complete but rusty and the third was a junker. He took both roofs and the shed from the rusty one and sold me the good one (which turned out to be a 752A) for $179.00.He then listed the rusty coaler which was now missing the parts I got,on Ebay and it sold for over $300.00. How can you blame him for wanting to get the most return on his investment?I have also noticed that most of the stuff he sells on Ebay has been for sale on his site for several months before it goes on Ebay.It usually sells for double the price he was asking and sells in a week. Larry Oberman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5665	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Questions on Train City

Hi all, I didn't mean to imply any begrudging against Charles in my last post, I hope you all read "between the lines" that mostly I was disappointed in loosing a great source of "fix-up" projects. I agree that all my communications with Charles have been good ones, he even liked a golf joke I sent him! (if you read his monthly letter at the beginning of the home page, you will find he is an avid golfer) Now just because someone likes one of my jokes is no reason to suspect loss of sanity <RBG>. I haven't noticed any real "bargains" at his site recently, but they may be there. I think you would be pleased with any purchases from him, and he will answer questions on item conditions accurately. Of course, I still like Mark P's site and stuff too, and his flyer selection is larger! Doug P. has the best quality parts too, if you have some fixer-uppers, and he has a "used list" Usual disclaimer, no financial interest in any, and no implications against anyone I didn't mention! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5666	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 10/28/1999
Subject: Lionel ?? What Quality

Hi Fellow "S"ers You know I'm relatively new to the S scale hobby but I have purchased allot of Flyer over the past year and a half. I have seen what Gilbert has Produced years ago I see what American Models, and S Helper produces today. I have also seen what Lionel has produced, and unless I'm missing something,and frankly I don't think I am, I just don"t understand why you fanatics want that kind of quality on your layout. Like I said I'm new to the hobby And this is just my opinion. Bill Sandrus RMHR Boise ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5667	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Fw: Lionel ?? What Quality

----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Sandrus To: One List Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 4:11 PM Subject: Lionel ?? What Quality Hi Fellow "S"ers You know I'm relatively new to the S scale hobby but I have purchased allot of Flyer over the past year and a half. I have seen what Gilbert has Produced years ago I see what American Models, and S Helper produces today. I have also seen what Lionel has produced, and unless I'm missing something,and frankly I don't think I am, I just don"t understand why you fanatics want that kind of quality on your layout. Like I said I'm new to the hobby And this is just my opinion. Bill Sandrus RMHR Boise ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5668	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Racing Champions

It is hard to believe that Racing Champions is stopping production of Mint Editions "based on input from die-cast collectors". Like maybe Beanie Babies are ceasing production because of input from collectors????????? Well anyway, Racing Champions can take, but they also can give! There are several 50's-'60's MOPAR vehicles available in Richard Petty racing colors that I have NOT seen available any other way. Take off the lettering, change the paint, and you have more variety for your favorite parking lot or road. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Train Watching Along the Erie Canal http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith ________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5669	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5670	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/29/1999
Subject: Re: More details

I understand from past experiences that even switchmen's hand signals, let alone other terms, vary from one road to another. Try to relate "caboose" to a Santa Fe man--he calls it a "way car." I understand "van" is the CN or CP term. Emporia, Kansas, huh? Once a crew change point, now not even Amtrak SW LTD stops there. They go straight through from Topeka to Hutchinson with no stops at all.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5671	From: FKopetz@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: LTI-AF UP Pony Express Set

Hello: Made an unexpected addition to my collection today after a bonus I wasn't expecting came in. I went to the hobby shop and bought my very first ever AF passenger set... namely, the early 90's LTI Pony Express set, new, MIB. These are both the first Flyer diesels I've owned and the first new LTI Flyer stuff I've owned. I'm happy with them, but would like to have some idea where to get additions for this set.... namely... 1. Where can I pick up an LTI-style DC-pulse horn/whistle button that I can connect to my Gilbert transformer so I can blow the horn with this set? (Didn't know it had an electronic horn until I opened the set and read the docs...) 2. Did LTI make a PB unit with Railsounds as an additional sale item for this set? If so, how easy is it to find? 3. Did LTI make a seperate sale coach or diner to lengthen the train for this set? Just curious...nice purchase, and totally unexpected. I went into the store today hoping to get one or two passenger cars and came out with a whole set. Neat stuff going on. Also, noticing the discussion on LTI couplers/trucks on the streamline cars...I've had no trouble at all with these cars right out of the box. So far I'm running them on standard AF track...but, if I pick up some All-Aboard panels in the next few weeks, would these things run on it, or would the narrower-radius Pikemaster track on the All-Aboard panels give this train a fit? Just wondering.... Frederick P. Kopetz...with a growing Flyer collection...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5672	From: Richard	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: new record...3 weeks

I just got a message I sent over three weeks ago...wondered where it went...anyone else noticed double postings and wayward messages lately? cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5673	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: new record...3 weeks

Richard, I have been receiving double postings also..Jeff --

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5674	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Sprues

My comment on sprues and runners seemed totally clear when I wrote it. Later, when reading it in the S Scale Digest, I'm not so sure. Let me try again. The sprue is a pathway that brings the molten plastic from outside the mold to the inside of the mold (not DIE). When it gets to the inside of the mold, the molten plastic travels through additional channels called runners to the cavities where the molded parts (molded parts are NOT CASTINGS) are formed. You will rarely see a sprue, as it is large compared to the runners, and is removed before the parts are shipped. You receive the runners because it is a convenient way to handle the molded parts, and it is tedious to remove the parts from the runners. The place where a part is attached to a runner is the gate. And regarding castings? If a part is made using a casting process rather than a molding process, it is a "cast" part, or a "casting". Small parts and flat parts can be made in simple "rubber" molds using "resin" that is poured ("cast") into the mold. Metal castings are made using the "die cast" method; the parts are "cast" in a metal die. These dies LOOK very similar to molds, but it seems that the metal industry calls their tooling "dies". Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Train Watching Along the Erie Canal http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5675	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: LTI UP set

In a message dated 10/30/99 7:20:50 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<1. Where can I pick up an LTI-style DC-pulse horn/whistle button that I can connect to my Gilbert transformer so I can blow the horn with this set? (Didn't know it had an electronic horn until I opened the set and read the docs...) 2. Did LTI make a PB unit with Railsounds as an additional sale item for this set? If so, how easy is it to find? 3. Did LTI make a seperate sale coach or diner to lengthen the train for this set? >> We stock the sound control. I believe it's $12.50 MAY have some of the UP "add-on" items left in stock. I'll check. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html VISA-MC-DISCOVER-AMEX ACCEPTED. Port Lines has three different catalogs available. Catalog #1 contains our complete listing of American Flyer Repair & Restoration Parts. Catalog #2 is our current Used AF Equipment List. Catalog #3 contains New Equipment & Products from all the different S manufacturers which we carry. Catalog #1 is $3.00. Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each. A set of all three catalogs is $6.00.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5676	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Sprues

This runner/sprue thing only holds if you are injecting through the mold/mold base. If you are injecting the parting line of the mold you do not have a sprue. Only runners. If you are injecting the parting line you can only inject one mold at a time. If you are injecting through the mold or the mold base you can inject as many molds that you have room to mount in the mold base. And molds are called inserts. If each set of inserts have there own dedicated mold base, then the whole thing is called the mold. But if you use only one mold base and change the molds in and out they are inserts. But the words are used interchangeably. Die casting and injection molding are the same thing but one uses metal the other uses plastic. Larry mhrreast@... wrote: > From: mhrreast@... > > My comment on sprues and runners seemed totally clear when > I wrote it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5677	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: NASG Online Membership Directory

Hi Folks, The NASG maintains an online directory of its membership located at <http://trainweb.com/nasg/members.html> I am currently in the process of updating this listing using the 1999-2000 Membership Directory we received in the August, 1999 issue of the "Dispatch." If you are a new member of the NASG or if you rejoined the NASG since publication of that Directory AND/OR if your name is not in that Directory and should be, please let me know and I will add you to the online listing. Similarly if you do not want your name listed in the online directory then please let me know this as well. OR if you have changed e-mail addresses and your address is now incorrect please let me know. I will make all the necessary changes. All e-mail addresses are listed only as hypertext links. I will need the following information: your name, your city and state and your e-mail address. Please send all info to me at <crocon@...> Thanks for all your cooperation, Craig S. O'Connell NASG Website Director

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5678	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel ?? What Quality

Some of us "fanatics" actualy like cars with grab irons, ladders that aren't cast on and trucks that aren't grossly oversize. If you like these things that's you're inalienable right. Let's not start criticising each other's tastes. Actually, beyond cosmetics, I find Lionel quality is at least passable if you can debug the stuff. Bill Sandrus wrote: > > From: "Bill Sandrus" <borj@...> > > Hi Fellow "S"ers > You know I'm relatively new to the S scale hobby but I have purchased allot of Flyer over the past year and a half. I have seen what Gilbert has Produced years ago I see what American Models, and S Helper produces today. I have also seen what Lionel has produced, and unless I'm missing something,and frankly I don't think I am, I just don"t understand why you fanatics want that kind of quality on your layout. Like I said I'm new to the hobby And this is just my opinion. > Bill Sandrus RMHR > Boise ID > > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5679	From: busy-boy	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Pony Express

Frederick P. Kopetz wrote: >I went to the hobby shop and bought my very first ever AF passenger set... >namely, the early 90's LTI Pony Express set, new, MIB. >1. Where can I pick up an LTI-style DC-pulse horn/whistle button that I can >connect to my Gilbert transformer so I can blow the horn with this set? >(Didn't know it had an electronic horn until I opened the set and read the docs...) >2. Did LTI make a PB unit with Railsounds as an additional sale item for this >set? Ifso, how easy is it to find? >3. Did LTI make a seperate sale coach or diner to lengthen the train for this set? 1.) If the set is really MIB, the button is packed in with the diesels. 2.) The PB Railsounds unit is available at train shows everywhere for deep discounts. $159-$179 is usual. Some people are dumping them for less. You'll score two more buttons packed with the PB, which you wire in series with the base post and each other. One blows the horn, the other rings the bell. 3.) There is a diner and, I believe, two separate coaches. These are also available "around." There are lots of them out there. Before you run around, Check with Peck! Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5680	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Set Database

Is there a database out there that would enable a person to determine what sets a paticular car was sold in? Or that would list which cars were sold in a paticular set? I know that all that raw data is in the greenberg book, (currently out of print). PS, I am still having modem problems so if I promised you a webpage update, please understand.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5681	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel/American Flyer

Why would it be nice to make AF again? Flyer is not 'state of the art' ( I hate that phrase) any more. Larry > From: "John Simkovich" <jps2102@...> > Subject: Lionel/American Flyer > > Hi Gang, Just got done reading the Classic Toy > Trains Magazine, did anyone happen to see the > artical on Lionel??? Says there that they may > start making American Flyer again in the future. > That would be really nice wouldn't it?? Maybe it > would be worth it to get enough emails to the > company president, that may help to push it along??? > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5682	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: GAds, OLD posting showing up!

Yep, I just noticed two of mine from the 10th and 11th. Must be a software glitch somewhere! Y2K are you calling us????? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5683	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel/American Flyer

lawrence jackman wrote: > Why would it be nice to make AF again? Flyer is not 'state of the art' ( I hate > that phrase) any more. > Larry > > > From: "John Simkovich" <jps2102@...> > > Subject: Lionel/American Flyer > > > > Hi Gang, Just got done reading the Classic Toy > > Trains Magazine, did anyone happen to see the > > artical on Lionel??? Says there that they may > > start making American Flyer again in the future. > > That would be really nice wouldn't it?? (SNIP) Some folks like old, non-state-of-the-art stuff just for what it was! While not a Flyer-kinda guy, I understand the desire on the Flyer folks to have more of it. Probably they have the same feelings I have for my Colt 1951 Navy Revolver - being black powder, it is not state of the art, but if it was, it would be an Uzi and no longer cap & ball! Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5684	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 419 - road variations

I read with amusement the post of ironhorse@... in issue number 419. Here in the Pennsylvania Dutch region (politically incorrect these days... should be Pennsylvania German) the caboose was often referred to as the "little red monkey box," as in "When goes by the lttle red monkey box why then the train is all. Ain't?" (This line should be said with a "Dutchified" accent, as we would say here in southeastern Pennsylvania.) Switchers were more often than not called "shifters." My understanding is that the English also use the term "shifter" for switcher. Can anybody out there verify this? Kelvin White maybe? And the ubiquitous (on the Philadelphia and Reading and its later designation Reading Railroad, at least) "camelbacks" on the noted lines were called "Mother Hubbards" at least on the Baltimore and Ohio. The camelback configuration allowed the locomotives to burn a combination of anthracite and bituminous coal. My understanding is that the percentage of the mixture varied depending on the region in which the locomotive was working. In coal country it was 60% anthracite 40% bituminous. On the New York - Philadelphia run these percentages were swapped around. I read this information somewhere long ago, and so cannot cite where the origin of the figures. The P&R devoted almost its first half-century of railroading to the search for a method of permitting their locomotives to burn anthracite. Finally in the mid 1870s then the P&R Superintendent of Motive Power, John Wooten, designed the Wooten firebox which was so wide that it was considered impractical to hang the cab on the rear of the locomotives so equipped. Almost all of the P&R motive power up to the turn of the century was, therefore, "camelbacks." If you want to see a good model of a Reading with a Wooten firebox, take a look at an A.C. Gilbert Flyer Atlantic, especially the early models made with separately cast boilers and steam chests, although the Wooten firebox is very well modelled up to the end of the Flyer run, although there were some where the railroad was renamed. (I have one named for "Southern Railway" in my collection, incidently.) Later Wooten fireboxes, as the one on the Flyer model of the Reading P7Sb Atlantics, were noticeably narrower than their earlier camelback brethern. The P7sb originally was outshopped at the P&R Locomotive Shop in Reading, PA as the C1, and had a 4-4-4 wheel arrangement. Suspension problems commonly shared by the four C1s resulted in their being modified to the 4-4-2 configuration. They were, incidently, the nly back cab Atlantics on the Reading motive power roster. In order to accomodate the extra width of the Wooten firebox, the Reading notched the cab so it would fit around the Wooten. That is the configuration that you will observe on the ACG Flyer version. Bachman's HO version of the I10sa Consolidation, which is also in my collection, also has a good example of the Wooten firebox. W. Thomas Boussum > I understand from past experiences that even switchmen's hand signals, let alone > other terms, vary from one road to another. Try to relate "caboose" to a Santa > Fe man--he calls it a "way car." I understand "van" is the CN or CP term. > > Emporia, Kansas, huh? Once a crew change point, now not even Amtrak SW LTD > stops there. They go straight through from Topeka to Hutchinson with no stops > at all.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5685	From: David Dewey	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Fireboxes

One reason AC may have chosen this "odball" loco for his atlantic is the firebox, it allows more room for the motor. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5686	From: Richard	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 419 - road variations

Hi Guys <snip> > My understanding is that the English also use the term "shifter" for switcher. Can anybody out there verify this? <snip> The typical expression for a "switcher" in Australia is SHUNTER..I believe thgis is common in the UK as well...dont you just love English...Im sure the Heinz company was around in the early days..thats why we have 57 varieties for any word or action!! cheers >:~)) Richard > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5687	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Lionel/American Flyer

Hi Larry and friends on the list, I have sent several emails to "talktous@..." with not one reply. Actually I am not a booster of "L",GILBERT AMERICAN FLYER. I don't see a need to revive Flyer. I would rather that we move on with a new or active S gauge company who would produce thousands of starter sets for the mass market and back them up with parts for expansion. "L" will not produce enough to compete with themselves. They have only produced enough to feed present Flyer collector operators. Staying on NASG track, Glenn lawrence jackman wrote: > Why would it be nice to make AF again? > Flyer is not state of the art any more. > Larry > > From: "John Simkovich" <jps2102@...> > Subject: Lionel/American Flyer > > Hi Gang, Just got done reading the Classic Toy > Trains Magazine, did anyone happen to see the > article on Lionel??? Says there that they may > start making American Flyer again in the future. > That would be really nice wouldn't it?? Maybe it > would be worth it to get enough emails to the > company president, that may help to push it along???

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5688	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel/American Flyer

Looks like I did not check my spelling. Sorry male should be make i sgould be is Larry lawrence jackman wrote: > Why would it be nice to male AF again? flyer i not state of the art ( I hate > that phrase) any more. > Larry > > > From: "John Simkovich" <jps2102@...> > > Subject: Lionel/American Flyer > > > > Hi Gang, Just got done reading the Classic Toy > > Trains Magazine, did anyone happen to see the > > artical on Lionel??? Says there that they may > > start making American Flyer again in the future. > > That would be really nice wouldn't it?? Maybe it > > would be worth it to get enough emails to the > > company president, that may help to push it along??? > > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5689	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel/American Flyer

Yes I understand your point. BUT the flyer made today will NOT be old flyer. I doubt that the old flyer tooling still exists. A lot of Big L's tooling disappeared when it was sent to Mexico. Flyer could have been included. But my point is flyer made to day is not flyer of yesterday. Even if the old flyer tooling could be used, it probably would have to be modified because of today's labor rates and again it is not flyer of old. Or done in china. If they want new flyer they will have new flyer but they can not make old flyer ever again. They can never make that colt revolver ever again. Even if tooling was available. Larry Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S. wrote:

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5690	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: Late Flyer Diesels

Studebaker was a great idea long before its time. What was the wine saying "we will not sell any wine before its time." Studebaker should have listen. I thought they were neat. Jokes were we could not tell if they were coming or going. Maybe they were a safety Hazard Larry Jeffrey Tangeman wrote:

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5691	From: The Reis's	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: LTI-AF UP Pony Express Set

1. I think the horn buttons are still available, they were about $20 new a few years ago when I got mine. You can use 1 or 2, If you have 1 it will work the horn, the second one will work the bell. They hook up reversed to each other in line with power. 2. Yes there was a separate PB unit with railsounds that came a few years after the sets. I remember Charles Ro selling these for $99 a few years ago. The railsounds work well. 3. There were 2 extra coaches (maybe a coach and a domeliner) that came out about the time of the set as extras. They were going for about $150 a pair a few years but I havn't looked lately. There may have also been a diner added later. I have used many of the LTI cars on my flyer track without problems but there was a truck change in the early-mid ninetys that may be the cause of some of these problems. eric reis Kenmore, wa ----- Original Message ----- From: <FKopetz@...> To: <S-Trains@onelist.com> Cc: <FKopetz@...> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 1999 12:26 AM Subject: [S-Trains] LTI-AF UP Pony Express Set > From: FKopetz@... > > Hello: > > Made an unexpected addition to my collection today after a bonus I wasn't > expecting came in. I went to the hobby shop and bought my very first ever AF > passenger set... > namely, the early 90's LTI Pony Express set, new, MIB. > > These are both the first Flyer diesels I've owned and the first new LTI Flyer > stuff I've owned. I'm happy with them, but would like to have some idea where > to get additions for this set.... > > namely... > > 1. Where can I pick up an LTI-style DC-pulse horn/whistle button that I can > connect to my Gilbert transformer so I can blow the horn with this set? > (Didn't know it had an electronic horn until I opened the set and read the > docs...) > > 2. Did LTI make a PB unit with Railsounds as an additional sale item for this > set? If > so, how easy is it to find? > > 3. Did LTI make a seperate sale coach or diner to lengthen the train for this > set? > > Just curious...nice purchase, and totally unexpected. I went into the store > today hoping to get one or two passenger cars and came out with a whole set. > > Neat stuff going on. Also, noticing the discussion on LTI couplers/trucks on > the streamline cars...I've had no trouble at all with these cars right out of > the box. So > far I'm running them on standard AF track...but, if I pick up some All-Aboard > panels > in the next few weeks, would these things run on it, or would the > narrower-radius > Pikemaster track on the All-Aboard panels give this train a fit? > > Just wondering.... > > > Frederick P. Kopetz...with a growing Flyer collection... > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5692	From: Lee Johnson	Date: 10/30/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Dispatch??

At 10:11 AM 10/9/99, Richard wrote: >Is the latest Dispatch out ..... Richard, The only issue of the Dispatch you missed was the August issue which is the Membership Directory issue. Since you just joined, this issue should be sent to you. I understand the October issue is just being finished, and headed to the printers. Hopefully it will be out in the next few weeks. Lee

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5693	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Current Survey

In light of all the strong opinions expressed on this list I am a little surprised with the results of the current S-Trains survey. "Characterize your train related experience with Ebay online auction:" http://onelist.com/surveys/S-Trains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5694	From: James C. Knight	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Set Database

>>Is there a database out there that would enable a person to determine what sets a paticular car was sold in? Or that would list which cars were sold in a paticular set?<< I suggest getting a copy of Bob Tufts' brand new book The Almost Complete Guide to American Flyer S Gauge Sets. Bob has a regular column in the "S Gaugian" magazine. At the most recent York TCA meet, Bob told me the book is available directly from him for $14.95 plus shipping. You can contact Bob at: Robert J. Tufts FlyerNut Publishing 4719 Logwood Lane Chantilly, VA 20151 This is a great book which lists, by set number, the complete contents of all known catalogued and uncatalogued AF sets. Jim Knight

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5695	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: New Flyer

The new Flyer has it's place in the market. I would rather see it marketed as toys rather than collectable by Lionel. As to quality, while it is not the quality of SHS or AM or Downs, it is certainly better than the junk sold at Wal-Mart, and Toys R Us today. Personally, I have both types of S gauge. I mostly run my better stuff on my layout at home and the Lionel Flyer at train shows. I feel the less detailed current Flyer holds up better during transport and the after 1990 Lionel motors run better than the pre-1990. I would also take Gilbert stuff but we have other members who do that so why duplicate?. I would love to see a Lionel Flyer starter set in Toys R Us, or even hobby shops, at a competitive price. If children got a set that would run well on 2 rail track they would eventually move up to SHS, AM etc. No matter what Gilbert said, Flyer was toy trains. Toy trains still have their place even if scale people have moved past them. This takes me full circle back to my opening statement: The new Flyer has it's place in the market. Now if only Lionel would take advantage of that. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5696	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 420

In a message dated 10/31/99 9:39:31 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<Before you run around, Check with Peck! >> Ahhhhhhhh......a new slogan! Thanks, Chris! Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5697	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Switcher = shifter

U betcha! Lars

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5698	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Age Demographics

Working with the little bit of data from the onelist.com site I created a curve showing the age demographics from the two lists. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/people/demographic.gif It is based on 94 pieces of age data from the S-Trains list, and 64 pieces of age data from the S-Scale list. The average is slightly less for the Scale list.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5699	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Re: New Flyer

Aggreed. It has it's place. Larry Alice S. Beachy wrote: > From: "Alice S. Beachy" <abeachy@...> > > The new Flyer has it's place in the market. I would rather see it marketed as toys

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5700	From: Neil Trump	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Switcher = shifter

Switcher = shifter=shunter Now it make sense!! Neil T. England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5701	From: Richard	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: heir apparent??

Miniferoquinologists all With the jumping ship from Bachmann to Lionel by Maddox...who is the new guru at Bachmann...anyone know his/her modeling preference. Without being a "downer" I would find it hard to see how Bachmann would slide "S" into into its range..its presently nicely balanced betweeen HO-On30-Large...Im just being a realist here....but then who would have thought that they would take so passionately to "G" and now On30. Now contrary to what some may already be thinking ...if a Biggee did enter the market..... this would actually make it easier for AM and SHelper. Anyhow back to original question..who and what flavour is the newbie at "B" cheers >:~)) Richard boy ......onelist has been weird with late postings lately!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5702	From: Marty Cook	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Gilbert Reproductions

Hi! First time post for me on this list. I've been monitoring the list for over a month, and find it quite interesting. Lots of great grist for the mill. One question I have, to which I've been unsuccessful in getting any feedback elsewhere, is regarding American Flyer repro accessories. Specifically, can anyone give me an assessment of the quality of the Flyer repros from Gilbert Reproductions, in Malvern, PA? Marty Cook TCA# 95-41425

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5703	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Royal Blue paint

Do not use Trainenamel Royal Blue. It's not even close. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5704	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Unidentified American Flyer

Can anyone help Rick? Subject: Unidentified American Flyer Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:19:00 -0800 From: "RICK GARRETT" <rdg@...> To: yorke@... Dear Yorke, I hope you can help me out with identifing the American flyer train that I just got from my dad. He is guessing that it is over 66 years old and the train no. is 7364RT, it is an old three rail system with a Jefferson toy transformer and looks like a sleek passenger train. There are 3 passenger cars and the electric locomotive, numerous rubber pads to put under every piece of track. There are 8 straight tracks and 8 curves and the train it self is a pale metallic green with a headlight in the locomotive, it also has a reverse lever on the locomotive. I hope this can help for the electric motor as gone bad because I played with it to much! It was the original and the transformer is still in great shape. Is it possible to get a new motor and extra track along with a spare transformer? Any info would be great, I played with this train when I was a kid and now I'm 42 and would love to get it working again. Dad said his father got it at a church raffle for $1 way back when dad was a kid, great toy to pass on to his son, don't you think. Again thank you for any help. Rick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5705	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, October 31, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5706	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Dispatch??

My DISPATCH came Saturday, and I have never seen an issue so crammed full of info; it has to rate as an OUTSTANDING effort to cover everything that has been going on--and there is a lot to cover!! Thanks Much to Jeff Madden and all others involved in any on this one!!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5707	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Weekend Potpourie

Two Items, Two Cents: LTI Pony Express addons: Lionel offered a RailSounds "B" unit, usually can be found discounted, probably at the prices previously stated, don't know haven't been looking. Offered shortly after the set came out was an additional coach and vista dome. Haven't seen these in the Chicago area for less than $150.00 per car. Dome-diner came out several years later. Seen these in the $60-$80 range. New Lionel/Flyer...whatever: Been seeing some conflicting information, maybe "spin control." In CTT, Maddox is reported to say that Flyer production may go "offshore." In a response to a letter by Don Thompson in Toy Train Review Online, we're told to look for some S gauge "surprises." In the December O Gauge Railroading, Maddox states that the only thing currently in the pipeline is for O Gauge. Take your pick. One more cent... The Geep, tank and caboose in the latest Lionel cataloge is likely left over from the previous management. OK, last one... There will always be a market for Flyer: good, bad, or ugly. If there weren't, there would be a lot more Flyer cluttering up landfills. Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5708	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: OCTOBER DISPATCH?

Although I haven't received mine yet, congratulations to Jeff and all involved because it's great to get a Dispatch close to it's cover date. Now we hope to see the December issue before Christmas. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn Message: 13 Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:24:54 -0600 From: ironhors@... My DISPATCH came Saturday, and I have never seen an issue so crammed full of info; it has to rate as an OUTSTANDING effort to cover everything that has been going on--and there is a lot to cover!! Thanks Much to Jeff Madden and all others involved on this one!!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5709	From: Al Babbitt	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: unsubscribe

unsubscribe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5710	From: Nerker, Robert	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: question on scenery

I saw a neat item on E-bay called "trainorama" made or sold by AF in the 50's. It went for around 250.00. It was a series of wall scenarious you could set up against a wall for your layout. Not wanting to shell out this kind of money for this, does anyone know if there are new companies making this scenery available? or where one could get similar wall applications? Thanks Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5711	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Vauclain compound setup information wanted.

Does anyone in the 'S' gauge community have any information regarding the Baldwin built Vauclain compound steam chest, cylinder, and valve gear? I am planning a scratch-built (or possibly kit-bashed) project for this coming winter of building a Philadelphia and Reading R1a 4-2-2 that was outshopped by Baldwin in 1895. The locomotive featured the noted steam chest and moving parts. The high pressure cylinder was at the top of the steam chest with the low pressure cylinder directly underneath. The valves were inboard of the high pressure cylinder, appear to be about the same diameter, and were mounted in line with the high pressure cylinders. Also needed is any advice and/or information regarding scratchbuilding the drivers, since they are a relatively nonstandard 84-1/4" diameter and will be high rail compliant. Thanks in advance for whatever help I receive. Incidently I do have a set of blueprints on this locomotive. It should make an interesting project. W. Thomas Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5712	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Re: Vauclain compound setup information wanted.

As far as I know, only one of these type of locos survives, it's at the Colorado RR Museum, and I believe it is a rack engine. I have around here somewhere, the builder's photo of SP 1727 which was a Vulcain compound, but converted to simple and superheated by the SP at the Sacramento Shops when she was about 5 years old (Wow, I must be loosing it, I used to know the build and rebuild dates by heart). This is the park engine in my hometown, Dunsmuir. I've often wondered if her present cylinders are the originals, as they do have three bores, but never dug into it ( I moved away some 20 years ago). Not much info here, oh well. Seems to me there is a reprint of a Baldwin book that covers the Vulcain period. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5713	From: Kelvin White	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Age Demographics

In message <381CA563.68C22C55@...>, Paul Yorke <yorke@...> writes >From: Paul Yorke <yorke@...> > >Working with the little bit of data from the onelist.com site I created >a curve showing the age demographics from the two lists. >http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/people/demographic.gif >It is based on 94 pieces of age data from the S-Trains list, and 64 >pieces of age data from the S-Scale list. The average is slightly less >for the Scale list. As I'm now at the prime age of 45, from the look of the graphs - I can look forward to going downhill! <G> -- Kelvin White Oxford England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5714	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Racing Champions

Racing Champions was at the National Model Show in Rosemont, IL this weekend and I was able to sneak away and look over their 2000 line up. Mostly current NASCAR racing cars, but some of the nice older models were on display (without the gaudy paint). They also had a remote control 1/64 racing car. you could not steer it or control the speed, just the direction. It was still fun to operate. The best think I saw at the show is a code 3 Crown 1960 era fire engine. These have 2X the detail of there past offerings and will be lettered for Los Angeles and then a run for New York City. They will retail for $42 each, but an excellent model. Matchbox and Johnny Lightning had new 1/64 models displayed, but I do not remember the exact prototype. Don Thompson Keith Thompson wrote: > From: Keith Thompson <keith.thompson2@...> > > I had really been hoping they would do the Studebaker wagon they did in > Rock 'n' Roll and Hot Rod colors in the Mint line. I guess the rumor of > them doing a late-'60s Chevy pickup is also false unless they're going > to bring it out in the new line. > > Also on the die-cast thread, ERTL has released a late-'60s era combine > that would make a good flatcar load. Of coarse two per car. To see a > picture of the IH 815 combine, go to > http://marketplaza.com/cgi-bin/scodb.cgi/s=evers&uid=17167&a=s&p=16508/ > -- Keith Thompson > > mhrreast@... wrote: > > > > From: mhrreast@... > > > > It is hard to believe that Racing Champions is stopping production > > of Mint Editions "based on input from die-cast collectors". Like > > maybe Beanie Babies are ceasing production because of input > > from collectors????????? > > > > Well anyway, Racing Champions can take, but they also can give! > > There are several 50's-'60's MOPAR vehicles available in > > Richard Petty racing colors that I have NOT seen available any > > other way. Take off the lettering, change the paint, and you have > > more variety for your favorite parking lot or road. > > > > Ted Larson > > Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division > > Train Watching Along the Erie Canal > > http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- > > Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! > > Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh. > > > > > -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5715	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: running DC engines on AC

- Greeting`S' - Paul Schneider asked a fine question and then provided half of the answer. Indeed, most AF locomotives were built with universal motors and do run on AC or DC. Some were built not with universal motors but with permanent magnet motor. These motors do not run on AC. On 60 Hz AC these motors try to reverse themselves 120 times a second. They do not succeed, but they do buzz and eventually smoke. Adding the rectifier gives them DC. The person trying to establish the background of his train set with the electric locomotive raised a question in my mind. Were any electrically powered AF "O" tracks made eight curves to a circle? Were all of them that way? Cheer`S' Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5716	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Royal Blue repainting

Steve: one thing you can do is take the loco to a store that sells automotive paint and get them to computer match the color. This often works well with glossy finishes. Dupont Dulux enamel is a good brand. You can thin it with enamel reducer or even Testor's airbrush thinner. Explain what you are doing to the people at the paint store. They may have some good suggestions, and almost everyone likes electric trains and will help you if they can. If you have a friend at an auto body shop, they might spray paint the loco for you for a small fee. They can use a finish gun, which can give a better glossy finish than an airbrush. An airbrush is ok though. I would suggest you make some mandrels out of scrap wood to mount the loco and tender bodies for ease of handling during the painting process. I don't know about applying a clear finish. Never tried that. A good job with glossy paint ought to be good enough. Be sure to let the paint dry for a week or so before handling the bodies. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5717	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 421

In a message dated 11/1/99 7:37:11 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << One question I have, to which I've been unsuccessful in getting any feedback elsewhere, is regarding American Flyer repro accessories. Specifically, can anyone give me an assessment of the quality of the Flyer repros from Gilbert Reproductions, in Malvern, PA?>> Nope....because nobody has seen a single thing from them yet. Although many of we dealers have put down a fair amount of money for initial stock, nothing delivered yet. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html VISA-MC-DISCOVER-AMEX ACCEPTED. Port Lines has three different catalogs available. Catalog #1 contains our complete listing of American Flyer Repair & Restoration Parts. Catalog #2 is our current Used AF Equipment List. Catalog #3 contains New Equipment & Products from all the different S manufacturers which we carry. Catalog #1 is $3.00. Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each. A set of all three catalogs is $6.00.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5718	From: Steve & Cathy Pendleton	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Fall S Fest in St. Louis, MO

Hi, all Just having returned from this year's S Fest (my first) in St. Louis, I cannot say enough about how fantastic it was. Five of us attended from the Atlanta metro area. All but me have been to York, some several times. It was agreed that York should be the spring trip, and the S Fest the fall journey. Congratulations to Moe Berk, Norm Pilarski, David Stevens and the 40-odd others who made the four days (3 convention days plus 1 day of layout tours) so worthwhile. Comments about the very high quality of American Flyer for sale, abounded. And even 30-year collectors said they found exactly what they came to look for. As a rookie with only 4 years (though RABID years) in the hobby, I hope I will never have to miss another S-Fest. The education, the camaderie and fellowship with more than 500 people from all over the country (I know I made several lifelong friends), the tingle-up-the-back-of-your-spine thrills, and the great stuff I brought back home with me.....all of the above combined to make a milestone for me that everyone on this S-List should experience. Write me, if you wish, for details. With best regards, Steve Pendleton bestofbreed@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5719	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Checkerboard Water Tower

Gentlemen, Having just come out of a wonderful weekend at the fall S-Fest here in St. Louis, I thought of a question and never had a chance to ask anyone there. I kicked myself a few times, then rememered how there are so many experienced and helpful people here on the S-list. So, here is my question: I have a checkerboard water tower that the original checkerboard had deteriorated and peeled off. I had purchased a replacement from our local S supplier that is a peel and stick type decal. The remainder of the origianl plastic decal came off with no problem, but the red color had leached into the original white paper. Soooo, in putting the new decal on, should I remove the old paper first, and if so, how. (At this moment, I think the new decal has the paper backing, but I'm not close enough to check it at this time.) All your wonderful opinions will be greatly appreciated! Thanks!!!! Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5720	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Checkerboard water tower

Bill: I would mask the black edges of the tank with tape and respray the area with a few coats of an antique white, until the leached orange color is covered. You can mix this color by adding a few drops at a time of orange and/or brown and yellow to gloss white paint until you hit a shade you like that is close to the original. After it dries, apply the new sticker. You can then spray the sticker with Testors semi-gloss or glosscote. This will preserve and protect the sticker. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5721	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Surplus Tractor / All Parts International

I just received my new TOY catalog from Surplus Tractor. They still have lots of ERTL, Yatming (modern Kenworth), and Hartoy trucks, Norscot construction eqpt, and Ertl tractors. They also have some great 1:50 stuff for your O scale friends, and many nice HO and G scale items. If you want 3-4 tractors by the same manufacturer and of the same vintage for a flat car load, this is probably the easiest place to get them. If you are not sure what tractors were made in your year of interest, these folks can probly help you, because tractor parts is their main business. 1-888-869-9675 (888-toyworld) www.stpc.com www.toyworldcatalog.com I don't subscribe to S-Trains, so please direct any questions or comments to my e-mail address. Ted Larson ________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5722	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 10/31/1999
Subject: Re: Train City Questions

Thanks to all who answered my request for info on Train City. Please be assured that I in no way intended to cast any doubts or bad intent to Charles Siegal, I just wanted to get some opinions on him before I made any purchases from him. Does anyone know what is the purpose for the little house on top of the AF 750 trestle bridge? I'm sure if in real life it were a drawbridge the attendant's house makes sense, but why on a stationary bridge? I've never seen any buildings on top of bridges. Were there such things in the 40s & 50s? Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5723	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/1/1999
Subject: Re: Train City Questions

I don't know why AF put their house on the bridge, but an application from real life would be for a swing bridge. There used to be one here in Rochester NY over the Genessee river which carried tracks and opened by turning 90 deg. to let boats in and out of the harbor. The bridge was not a draw bridge but stayed level in operation, hence the house did not have to tilt. "Roger V. Petrella Jr." wrote: > > From: "Roger V. Petrella Jr." <rogerpjr@...> > > Thanks to all who answered my request for info on Train City. Please be assured that I in no way intended to cast any doubts or bad intent to Charles Siegal, I just wanted to get some opinions on him before I made any purchases from him. > > Does anyone know what is the purpose for the little house on top of the AF 750 trestle bridge? I'm sure if in real life it were a drawbridge the attendant's house makes sense, but why on a stationary bridge? I've never seen any buildings on top of bridges. Were there such things in the 40s & 50s? > > Roger Petrella > Franktown, CO > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5724	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: Paul Yorke

Paul, Can you unsubsribe me, till next Tuesday....thanks, Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5725	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: Watertower repair

Quite a project- and lucky to find that sticker! Since U say red leached into paper I assume the paper is a wrapping or even the tower tank itself? If so U wil lpaint with artists acrylic paint? the red may still bleed thru that? Requiring several coats? sounds like one would remove the stained paper, and either replace it with another paper one using perhaps contact adhesive (artists spray can) or sand, prime, and paint white the metal substrate..... anyhoo IMHO i would not attempt to protect the 'sticker'. My son is plant manager for a label company and most labels are made by a single process. Any protection might mess up the plastic sticker (solvents in 'protector'). Said labels are used all the way from barcode on products and UPS to those on paint cans and such as used to identify a stereo model, serial number, wattage etc. Said labels are very durable as we know. Rotsa Ruck! L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5726	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: AF Burlington Northern

Gentlemen, I missed an opportunity to purchase a BN boxcar at the S-Fest and thought I would address this to the list. My wife and I, before we met, each lived in separate towns in different states, but close to the Burlington Northern tracks. I was in NW Missouri, and she in either Nebraska or Colorado. (I hadn't met her yet.) So we both have a fondness for the BN green. I would like to purchase several cars and eventually an engine in the BN green colors to add under the Christmas Tree and also to the layout. I have two open gondolas, but would like to add several covered hoppers, (lots of grain operations where we were,) some boxcars and a caboose. I'm not looking for new in box, but just some decent cars. Anyone out there have some to part with, or know of a reasonable source? Thank you again, Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5727	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: Reply to "Trainorama"

Bob, I have had a Trainorama since my childhood. Bought at a grade school flea market for about $.75. I was shocked to see it in Greenberg for about $75. Anyway, I saw two in their original sleeves at this past Fall S-Fest here in St. Louis. I believe they were both listed at $100. So they are out there in other places than eBay at better prices for the buyer. I guess one plus I can say about eBay is, you don't find such a large assortment of AF items in any local stores. Good luck in you hunting. Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5728	From: D Simon	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: Scale help

I hope someone can help me. I have seen alot of differnt racing champ cars. What is the correct scale? 1:63, 1:64 etc Thanks alot Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5729	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: AF "O" Circles

Rhett George asked, <Were any electrically powered AF "O" tracks made eight curves to a circle? Were all of them that way?> I don't know about all AF "O" gauge, but my early 30's AF "O" set has eight curves to a circle. Also, both the curves and the straight tracks are banked or super-elevated about 3/32". They did this by reducing the height of the tie and increasing the width of the flange at the bottom of the tie, so the tie is actually wider under the low rail. The sides of the piece of metal used to make each tie were parallel before bending. AF "O" track can also be distinguished from "L" and Marx because they placed two track pins on one end of each piece, and one pin of the other. AF wide gauge (standard gauge) track also had a similar track pin arrangement, but no super-elevation. Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5730	From: Train Collectors Association	Date: 11/2/1999
Subject: Re: AF "O" Circles

Not necessarily true regarding track pin location. Only in the late prewar (WWII) years did Lionel go to three pins on one end, prior to that they used the same orientation as other manufacturers, that is two and one pin. (Annoying when you had an "S" curve. Chicago Flyer introduced the 40" diameter "O" gauge track in 1936, with roadbed and 12 pieces made a circle. Prior to that they sold a 30", outside diameter, banked curved track. Eights to a circle. Cheers, Ron Morris - keeper of toy train trivia Toy Train Reference Library Train Collectors Association Strasburg PA USA At 05:57 PM 11/2/1999 -0500, you wrote: >From: NYC17819@... > >Rhett George asked, ><Were any electrically powered AF "O" tracks made eight curves >to a circle? Were all of them that way?> > >I don't know about all AF "O" gauge, but my early 30's AF "O" set has eight >curves to a circle. Also, both the curves and the straight tracks are banked >or super-elevated about 3/32". They did this by reducing the height of the >tie and increasing the width of the flange at the bottom of the tie, so the >tie is actually wider under the low rail. The sides of the piece of metal >used to make each tie were parallel before bending. > >AF "O" track can also be distinguished from "L" and Marx because they placed >two track pins on one end of each piece, and one pin of the other. AF wide >gauge (standard gauge) track also had a similar track pin arrangement, but no >super-elevation. > >Chris Harding > >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5731	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Module Corner

Somebody asked me a while back for a list of past "Module Corner" articles. The December 1998 Dispatch has a such a list. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Train Watching Along the Erie Canal http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5732	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: ATSF

Is anybody on the list a member of the ATSF Historical Society? I'm looking for someone who has a copy of the Fourth Quarter 1988 Santa Fe Modeler, which is mostly on SFRD reefer operations. Please reply off-list. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Train Watching Along the Erie Canal http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5733	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Checkerboard Redo

Gentlemen, Thank you for the replies. I got a little busy yesterday and explored a few things. I peeled back an edge of the checkerboard decal that I have and found that it has the white paper attached to the checkerboard, so no need to paint the old paper or tank. I then attacked the tank and found the old, brittle paper for the label was only glued at the beginning and end, not all the way around the tank. So off it came. My next session with it will be to remove what is left stuck to the tank at the adhesive, then install the new label. As to finding a new checkerboard for it, Marty's Trains here in St. Louis had some. It has been about a year since I bought this, and I don't know if he has been able to restock any. Thanks again!! Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5734	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: A F O-gauge curve sections

- Greeting`S' - What a great group! Thanks for the responses to my question on number of sections in a circle of track. Cheer`S' Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5735	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: SCALE HELP

Racing Champions have modeled cars from the 30s to the present. We have found that the "Mint Edition" are made to fit the packaging so a Cadillac is the same length as a Ford or Studebaker as are Edsels, etc. Thus they range in scale from 1/58 to 1/65. Side by side they don't look so good on our S scale layouts but scattered around they give our audiences a taste of American automobile history. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn Message: 5 Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 08:00:07 PST From: "D Simon" <aftrain@...> Subject: Scale help I hope someone can help me. I have seen alot of differnt racing champ cars. What is the correct scale? 1:63, 1:64 etc Thanks alot Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5736	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: ATTENTION SCALERS-WHEEL SWAP

Hello Scalers, I have American Models latest S Scale wheel sets, to trade for all metal American Models or S-Helper service hi-rail wheel sets. Contact me off the S-Train webb site. I have 32 axels w/wheels. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C..

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5737	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Traintown anyone?

Ever been there? This looks like fun. The kids and I ride the "live steamers" at Leekin Park west of Balitimore each spring. http://www.traintown.com/ PS Two weeks ago we rode the steamer (1916 Baldwin 2-8-0) up the mountain from Cumberland to Frostburg, but not back. They had a diesel help push on the way up, and it pulled us back down to Cumberland for the return trip. 2 years ago it was the steamer alone both ways. Of course we did get stuck about 8 times on the way up. The ride is very popular. This year there were about 12 passenger cars in our train. The best part still is the open baggage section where you can smell, hear, and see that steamer in action.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5738	From: Bill Clark	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Re: Traintown anyone?

I was there in September, on a Saturday. We had the steamer both ways. It was a great day! Bill At 10:21 AM 11/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >From: David_Horn@... > >Ever been there? This looks like fun. The kids and I ride the "live >steamers" at Leekin Park west of Balitimore each spring. >http://www.traintown.com/ > >PS Two weeks ago we rode the steamer (1916 Baldwin 2-8-0) up the mountain >from Cumberland to Frostburg, but not back. They had a diesel help push on >the way up, and it pulled us back down to Cumberland for the return trip. 2 >years ago it was the steamer alone both ways. Of course we did get stuck >about 8 times on the way up. The ride is very popular. This year there >were about 12 passenger cars in our train. The best part still is the open >baggage section where you can smell, hear, and see that steamer in action. > > >[Attachments have been removed from this message] > >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5739	From: Ron Sebastian	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: 2 Great S Scalers - Plus

There a re a couple of great guys amongst you and I have no public way of thanking them other than here. For some reason the St Louis Fest folks did not get our registation and could not make any room for us when we arrived. I guess the waiting list must have been pretty long. In sixteen years this has never happened to us but it did in St. Louis. We have our new S Scale America tank cars and hoppers to show so this particular show was going to be pretty important to us. We also had all the new SHS stuff with us too. Anyway, Jim Kindraka and Dan Navarre of River Raisin Models gave us half of their two tables so all would not be lost. They didn't have to do it, but they did. They didn't take any money for it either. They just wanted to help and did. I publicly thank them. I also want to thank Mike Krope of the Chicagoland Club. Mike unselfihly drove a bunch of our stuff to St Louis because I was flying in. The morning he was to pick our stuff up he had transmission trouble. He made a special trip up (he is a westsider and we are up north) to get our stuff with I am sure, some pressure. Even though we never even unloaded his van and his efforts on our behalf were wasted, He goodnaturely said "Oh well". Thanks Mike. Ronald J. Sebastian Des Plaines Hobbies - S Scale America

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5740	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Uh oh, lost one!

An excerpt from a post on the TCA Toytrains site; From: Brian Johns <bljohns@...> ....... I'm in the process of switching from American Flyer S to 3-rail 0-27. (The last train show I attended had virtually no Flyer, and what was there was junk and priced over $150. It's pretty easy to find a Lionel bargain -- it's everywhere! Flyer's nice, but it's out of my financial grasp.) So I'm starting out clean and very naive. I bought a nice gray Lionel 2-6-4 8611 engine recently at a train show. Empty tender -- just waiting for my choice of sound system. Would you (or anyone else on this list) have a sound system recommendation to someone starting from scratch? Thanks! -=[ Brian ]=- Looks like we have to do more recruiting!! Actually, I haven't found this too true, both L and AF seem to be getting "pricey" but there are still bargins out there--especially if you like to fix stuff, but then not all of us can do that. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5741	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Starter sets

How bout a decent pacific with smoke, choo choo, whistle, headlite, illum marker lights and number board, full valve gear, cast loco body with good detail, medium duty tender and electronic reverse. two cars, illum caboose, oval of track, moderate power supply, high quality track (non roadbed style) for $250 list and somewhere between 210 and 225 street price? I think it outta sell ! L. Likewise a 2-8-0 with full sounds and 4 cars for $280 list, about $235 street. Both of these are O of course..... Also see latest Toy Trains mag with article on a Flyer collector, see his comments on starter sets and what is (not) happening in Flyer.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5742	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: 596 without arrow?

Was the 596 ever made without an arrow? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=192929050

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5743	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Circus set

OK sets-hounds, are the loads in this set original, and/or correct? One tractor has black wheels the other has white. Thanks. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=193417776

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5744	From: Robert Hegadorn	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Sunset Mike Project

Greetings S-Fans, Does anyone know the status of Sunset's proposed Mikado project? I put in for a scale-version Heavy myself and I'm hoping it will be produced. Happy modeling to all, in the meantime. Yours, etc., Spyke (new guy on the list) =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5745	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Re: Sunset Mike Project

The 3rd Rail website still lists this project as in the works, but I fear the prognosis is not good. Not enough reservations. I think this one is a goner. 'S'incerely, Jay Mellon New Orleans, LA ---------- From: Robert Hegadorn [SMTP:spyke_anarkii@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 6:12 PM To: s-trains@onelist.com Subject: [S-Trains] Sunset Mike Project Greetings S-Fans, Does anyone know the status of Sunset's proposed Mikado project? I put in for a scale-version Heavy myself and I'm hoping it will be produced. Happy modeling to all, in the meantime. Yours, etc., Spyke (new guy on the list)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5746	From: Michael Greene	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: Re: Starter sets

At 11:52 AM 11/03/1999 -0500, LARSPAINTR@... wrote: >From: LARSPAINTR@... > >How bout a decent pacific with smoke, choo choo, whistle, headlite, illum >marker lights and number board, full valve gear, cast loco body with good >detail, medium duty tender and electronic reverse. >two cars, illum caboose, oval of track, moderate power supply, high quality >track (non roadbed style) for $250 list and somewhere between 210 and 225 >street price? >I think it outta sell ! >L. >Likewise a 2-8-0 with full sounds and 4 cars for $280 list, about $235 street. >Both of these are O of course..... > >Also see latest Toy Trains mag with article on a Flyer collector, see his >comments on starter sets and what is (not) happening in Flyer. I was fortunate enough to be able to attend the recent National Hobby Show in Chicago. Without a doubt, the S products I was happiest to see in a manufacturer's booth at the show were the two new S starter sets from S Helper Service! While we're all familiar with the high quality products from S Helper Service, they've gone the extra mile to package two starter sets for the S gauge market. We've talked about wanting starter sets on this list for a long time, and finally they're arriving with loco, cars, track, and transformer. I hope these will begin to appear in hobby shops... Thanks S Helper Service! Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5747	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/3/1999
Subject: 596 arrow

the arrow on the 596 is a hangover of the early days of commercial aviation. the CAB (now the FAA) required an arrow pointing north on large, identifiable structures throughout the US. this, in addition to the then cutting-edge beacon system, was the navigation system employed by the curtiss condors(american) , ford tri-motors(twa), and stinson trimotors(american and eastern) in the early days of passenger aviation. my plasticville airport will sport one each of these in 1/72 scale-plus a lockheed orion (horror of horrors-a single engined airliner!) anyone who wants to model one of these vintage rattletraps can contact me and i'll help you locate it-john marganski p.s.- pan am operated flying boats and amphibians(if they were sikorsky , they were amphibiOns) at this point in time and would surely make a fine waterfront air terminal.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5748	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 11/4/1999
Subject: 1/64th Walmart Pick-up

I just got back from a trip to my local Walmart. There is a special run Hot Wheels 1959 commemorative Ford Pick-up. It is supposed to be a 1/64th replica of the one Sam Walton used to go hunting. It is red and white with a tool box and dog box in the back. Even if one doesn't care about Sam Walton, it would make a great vehicle for a layout. They come in black boxes with a window so my Walmart did not have them hung on peg board. Price here (Virginia) was $5.95. I'm heading out the door now to catch the Silver Palm to Ft. Meyers Fla. Maybe I'll find some there also. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5749	From: John Foley	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: PA. Heritage web-site

>Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 04:47:09 -0800 >To: Me >From: John Foley <foley164@...> >Subject: PA. Heritage web-site > >>Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 04:46:04 -0800 >>To: Craig >>From: John Foley <foley164@...> >>Subject: PA. Heritage web-site >> >>Hi Folks >> Here's new web site the address to the new web site for >>PA. Heritage Models. Click on this. >> >> http://www.Paheritagemodels.com/PAHeritagemode/ >> >> John Foley

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5750	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/4/1999
Subject: Sam's door spring

Anybody got any experience replacing the door spring on a Sam the Semaphore Man? Like what kind of spring, where to get one, and how to put it on? =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5751	From: mark.p.baker@bt.com	Date: 11/4/1999
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR

> Just some advanced warning for those overseas members of this list that > may need to make complicated travel arrangements that the next King's > Cross Railway Book Fair is to be held at Keen House, the headquarters of > the Model Railway Club (http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/index.html), at > 4, Calshot Street, London, N1, on Saturday 27th November 1999 between > 11:00 and 15:30. This year will be the largest of the King's Cross Railway > Book Fairs with over fourteen of the countries best traders books. > Admission is just �1 and refreshments will be available all day from the > Club's licensed bar. Further details are available from me direct. > > > Mark P. Baker. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5752	From: John Foley	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: Re: Sunset Mike Project

Message: 15 Date: Wed, 3 Nov 1999 18:42:42 -0600 From: "Mellon, Jay E." <jmellon@...> Subject: RE: Sunset Mike Project Hi Folks I sopke with Scott of Sunset at the TCA York show last month. Scott told me that at this point they where dropping the S projects. He also said don't rule out Sunset in the future. WE will see. John The 3rd Rail website still lists this project as in the works, but I fear the prognosis is not good. Not enough reservations. I think this one is a goner. 'S'incerely, Jay Mellon New Orleans, LA ---------- From: Robert Hegadorn [SMTP:spyke_anarkii@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 1999 6:12 PM To: s-trains@onelist.com Subject: [S-Trains] Sunset Mike Project Greetings S-Fans, Does anyone know the status of Sunset's proposed Mikado project? I put in for a scale-version Heavy myself and I'm hoping it will be produced. Happy modeling to all, in the meantime. Yours, etc., Spyke (new guy on the list)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5753	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: Re: SAM

In a message dated 11/5/99 6:50:50 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<Anybody got any experience replacing the door spring on a Sam the Semaphore Man? Like what kind of spring, where to get one, and how to put it on? >> Yep./.....we have it. (.75 each). Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5754	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, November 07, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5755	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: American Models Customer Service

I recently suffered a broken U joint housing on my American Models PA diesel. An email to Ron Bashista asked if he could send a replacement part. He asked by return email that I send a SASE and the part was in my hand within a week or so (today). It's already installed and the 2 motored brute is again running flawlessly. What service! Thanks Ron. -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5756	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: SHS Customer Service

While at York I had a problem with an SHS car, that I bought from a vendor at the west Holiday Inn, losing a truck spring. I stopped by SHS in the purple hall the next day and Don dug out several springs and put them in an envelope for me. Thanks to Don for the good service. I finally learned how to install the beasts- it took about a 3 spring learning curve. -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5757	From: The Reis's	Date: 11/5/1999
Subject: Extra S-Gauge Heralds 1962-1978

. Is anyone interested in buying an almost complete set of S-Guage Heralds from 62-76 and 78. I have most of the issues from volume 2 (1962) through 1976 and 1978. over 90 issues in all, all different and all in pretty good condition. I bought a set to complete the set I had a while back and now these are extra. Make me an offer if you are interested (like a mini e-bay, only cheap) If there is interest in parts I will entertain that if no-one wants all of them. $50 plus $15shipping ? Eric Reis Kenmore, Wa.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5758	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: Accessory Repair

I am having problems with three accessories. Thought maybe someone on the list could help advise me on these. First, I have a saw mill which is very slugish. Any tricks of the trade to look for on this? Second, I have a 752 Seaboard Coaler in which the clam shell will periodically not close. I am wondering if the switch isn't the problem? Any suggestions? The third problem is a 583 Electromagnetic Crane. It seems to be hanging up & will not click into the operating mode. Is it in the sequence reverse unit? What do I need to do to service it? Thanks for any suggestions you might have. Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5759	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: Re: New S Gauge Starter Sets

We would like to announce our Showcaseline Starter Train Sets for 1999. Samples were on display at the National Model and Hobby Show in Chicago last week. They generated much interest from retailers and the public. Six roadnames will be offered in three price levels. Our sets come complete and can be assembled in minutes. This is the easiest most economical way to introduce your customers to S Gauge. Each set includes: lighted diesel locomotive and caboose, heavy duty DC power pack (with momentum, on/off green light and overload warning light), 40" x 60" oval of track (12 curve & 4 straight sections with roadbed), engine will operate on DC or AC current (replaceable AC board included). The set cars & track are compatible with AF S Gauge trains. Each set comes packed in a large suitcase-style giftbox with foam storage trays. New for 1999 starter sets roadnames include: Chesapeake & Ohio 5 car set $$369.95, Conrail 4 car set #299.95, Great Northern 6 car set $399.95, Rio Grande 6 car set $399.95, Illinois Central Gulf 5 car set $$369.95 and Northern Pacific 5 car set $$369.95. These have shipped from our builder and will be available around Thanksgiving. Robin Thompson

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5760	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: accessories

Mike: I agree with Doug about the bucket. Problem more likely to be in wires than button. Also, if the bucket buzzes but will not close, a metal part may be bent out of alignment. The outside guy wires in the older style buckets are especially vulnerable. For the sawmill, If it just runs slowly through the whole cycle, try cleaning the commutator by holding a small piece of #400 or #600 sandpaper against it while it is running. Make sure it is well lubricated, esp. front and reart armature bearings. Don't get oil on the commutator though. If it runs slowly through parts of its cycle, there is something wrong in the alignment of the accessory's parts or a problem with the spring on the ejector being too tight. For the magnetic crane, try spraying some contact cleaner into the reverse unit drum. Blow off excess and cycle the r unit a few times with your finger. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5761	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: Back from Houston

I have returned from Houston, please put me back on the list. Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5762	From: Marty Cook	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: Prewar Flyer

I'm about to embark on a little restoration work on some prewar Flyer, both pre- and post-Gilbert. Any suggestions as to parts, paint and decal suppliers? Marty Cook TCA#95-41425

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5763	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: THE Bible About AF Sets Now Available

Now in Stock!!! The Almost Complete Guide to American Flyer S Gauge Sets By Robert J. Tufts Just published by FlyerNut Publishing, this 8-1/2 by 11 inch soft cover book is THE bible of American Flyer sets. Bob Tufts write the American Flyer Collector column for S Gaugian magazine and is a recognized expert in his understanding of the workings of the A.C. Gilbert Company. This book contains a master listing of all known AF sets and set boxes, including 311 catalogued sets from 1946 through 1966 and 519 uncatalogued sets from 1946 through 1968 (yes, 2 years after their last catalog!!). Discussions include set numbering schemes and year by year set production. Set listings also are provided sorted by engine number and year of production. There is also a section on set box details. Now, for the best news. The cost of this book is only $14.95 (plus $3.20 for Priority Mail shipping). Call or fax your order today. 919/471-2613 (then enter *9 to send a fax). Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5764	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: O gauge Flyer

The same dealers who carry S gauge Flyer parts carry O gauge too. One thing you have to watch out for in Gilbert O is that the white metal castings on steam locos are subject to white metal disease and may disintegrate while being handled. This includes boiler, tender, cylinder , pilot, boiler front, chassis, driving wheel centers, and tender truck sideframes. Turning a screw set in this metal may cause it to crumble as well. So, do the absolute minimum of disassembly. If you have to remove a screw, squirt some wd-40 or penetrating oil under the head first and wait a few minutes for it to penetrate. Good luck. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5765	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: penetrating oil and corroding white metal

wd40 may be ok-but i know from a personal disaster that lps-2 will cause the distressed areas to crumple away.happened to me with an atlantic.i found that flowing zap-a-gap into the affected areas does re-enforce them enough to get a little more time out of the poor doomed little trains, tho' - john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5766	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: New Flyer cars

I just received my TTOS "Bulletin" which included the ad for the 2000 convention cars. One sheet has a Lionel crane and gondola in SP Daylight colors. The sheet subtly mentions "Also available in S Gauge. Flyer Crane and Gondola. First flyer crane since 1965." Price is $99.95 plus tax &/or shipping. Check it out: http://www.ameri-eagle.com/ttos2000/images/ttos2000orderform.jpg Gregg Mummert gmummert@... S Gauge - the only way to Fly(er)!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5767	From: Brian Johns	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: **CAUGHT IN THE ACT!**

David Dewey-- <big grin> OK, you saw my post on the TCA list. Yeah, I'm not putting ANY more money into Flyer. (For now.) (Except to finish those workbench projects.) My Flyer's still on the train table sitting right behind me, and will be for a good long while. My 3-rail layout is going to start on a hollow-core door and grow from there. In Jr. High I strayed from Flyer and went for HO Tyco because cool things were available and affordable. Now, in my late 30's, I'm going to investigate 3-rail because (you can see this one coming) cool things are available and affordable. It's just too strong a draw for me. Sometimes I just wanna play with trains without mortgaging the house, ya know? SO...I'll have some FUN for a while with all the neat-o things that are electrically possible with 3-rail. (Reverse loops with no headaches! 2-trains on one loop with no relays! Crossing signals that work with no track trips or expensive electronics!) But my beloved Flyer is still on my good train table and will probably stay there. I just can't bear to put it away. LIONEL IN THE NEXT MILLENNIUM Someone commented recently that Mr. Maddox said to expect some Flyer surprises. As I recall, he mentioned in an earlier interview that he wants to do something really great for Lionel before he retires in a few years. Or something like that. SO, I decided to dust off the old crystal ball (from an old Gilbert ChemLab experiment in grade school) and see what I could see: Fall, 2001: MTH / K-Line, et. al. have overrun Lionel's 3-rail business with wider selection, lower prices, higher quality, etc. With Lionel sales slipping in the face of such stiff competition Mr. Maddox has announced they will close their doors. For a while. In an interview Barbara Walters on 20/20, Mr. Maddox announced that Lionel's not down for the count. With a smile and wink at Barbara, he says mysteriously, "It will be wonderful." (Fade to the theme of 2001: A Space Odyssey.) Fall, 2002: Today saw the biggest media news since Bill Gates (formerly of Microsoft) bought Apple Computer. Lionel has announced their NEW LINE of MORE REALISTIC, 2-RAIL 3/16" S SCALE MODEL RAILROADS!! Lionel's sales are expected to shoot through the roof as high quality, affordable S-gauge sets become available through eToys, Toys R Us, Sears, K-Mart, Wal-Mart Target, Venture and (rubbing the crystal ball s'more for clarity) why yes, there are even shrink-wrapped three-packs of new AF train sets available at Sam's Club! Husbands are leaving their wives hints about Christmas...meanwhile... it looks like every child is nagging their parents for the limited-run novelty AF train set, with it's special Furby Transport car, the Pokemon animated crossing guard, and the hilariously animated Cow and Chicken "Udderly Ridiculous" hand car! Yup. Mr. Maddox made some good surprises in 2002. <<poof>> Whoops! Guess the Cow and Chicken handcar overloaded the crystal ball. Oh well! <big grin> -=[ Brian ]=- _______________________________________________________ Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx _______________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5768	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/6/1999
Subject: Re: New Flyer cars

Yep!!! I've been telling youse guys to save up your money!! Well, the secret is finally out--gads, I've been sitting on this for about 9 months!! Whew!!! No one can blame me for premature info releases on this one! Now for the bad news, L can't find the Flyer crane body molds. It may be an L crane body on AF stuff. I haven't seen the pre-production samples yet, and may not until their photos show in the Bulletin. If I hear anything I can pass on, I'll tell ya! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5769	From: mhrreast@juno.com	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: New Bus

There was recently a report on one of the S scale lists about a new die cast school bus, slightly longer than the one available 2-3 years ago. Today I saw a bus in a local store fitting this description, HOWEVER, it is too large for S scale! The oversize amount however is such that this bus would probably be acceptable if you have other oversize vehicles, such as the semis from Lionel, which are over-size for S, but undersize for O. I also found today a nearby store specializing in new and vintage diecast vehicles. If there is something you are looking for, send him a letter telling him what you want and what your maximum price is. If you can send a photo of what you want (find one on e-Bay and print out a copy?), that would help make sure he's looking for the right item. Gary Robbins PO Box 327 Macedon NY 14502 716-223-8450 T/Th 6-9, Sat 9-5 He has several of the 4 car taxi sets that somebody reported finding at KayBee several weeks back. $10. He also has the same cars in a police car set and something else (fire chief?). The Checker looks good for S. The '53 Chev is not bad, maybe very slightly undersize. The other two cars looked odd to me. I don't remember now what they were. Any replies to me, off-line please. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division Train Watching Along the Erie Canal http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith ________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5770	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: "casual" & "serious" bidding

I think I just learned something about eBay and bidding on toy trains this evening. While scrolling through the AF listings Ia prewar AF freight car caught my eye. I don't know much about prewar Flyer other than its three-rail and larger than S-gauge. Nonetheless, I liked the car (the road name had sentimental value), so I placed a bid on it. When I bid on "real" Flyer (S-gauge, that is) I seldom make a move without first checking my Greenburg price guides. I'll even check a few Internet dealers such as Mark Preman to see roughly what the piece costs. In other words, I'm a "serious" or "hardcore" bidder. In the case of my prewar freight car, though, I don't have a prewar Flyer price guide. I know next to nothing about the value of the stuff. Therefore, I bid what I thought the piece was worth *to me.* And I only bid what I decided I could afford. For all I know, I bid *more* than what the piece is worth according to the Greenburg prewar Flyer price guide. Only later did I realize my bid puts me, at least in this case, in the catagory of the aforementioned "casual' bidder. I wonder how many of the folks on eBay who bid on the stuff *I* collect--postwar Flyer, that is--approach bidding the same way. That is, they don't own the price guides, they don't subscribe to s list like this. They're simply "casual" buyers who bid on stuff they like. Rather than research the price, they simply bid what they think it's worth, a purely subjective approach (versus relying on the "objective" data in the price guide). The question is: Is this good or bad for the hobby overall? Paul Schneider, who finds himself on both sides of the fence after bidding on his prewar Flyer piece.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5771	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Paul's Update

1) Just got my NASG Dispatch, what a great Mag. With 80 'S' related photos is sure beats the pants off any other publication. If you don't already get this publication you are really missing the boat. See http://www.trainweb.com/nasg/ or contact wmoore@... for details. I especially liked the contest winning models from the convention. Bob Werre (photographer) is a great asset to 'S'. Also many of the people that you know from S-Trains and S-Scale lists are featured in photos in this issue. 2) The 'e-bay' survey question has run it's course. Any input for the next S-Trains survey question? 3) My modem is back on-line. Now I just need some non-honey-due time to catch up on my web pages. 4) If you are like me and subscribe to the S-Scale & the S-Trains list here is a tip. Create a mail filter. In Netscape mail click on the 'Edit' pull down menu, then 'Message Filters...' .You can created a filter that will send all the mail that contains s-trains & s-scale in the 'Too:" line to a special folder. I call that folder "S-T & S-S" . This will allert you to the fact that there is duplicates to all the mail in this folder. In addition I send all the non-duplicated s-scale, to the "S-Scale" folder and likewise for the non-duplicated S-trains stuff. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5772	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Re: Prewar parts

In a message dated 11/7/99 5:15:08 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << I'm about to embark on a little restoration work on some prewar Flyer, both pre- and post-Gilbert. Any suggestions as to parts, paint and decal suppliers?>> Prewar parts and decals are limited....not nearly as available as postwar S ! Howveer, we carry a pretty-much complete selection of what IS available for prewar......at least the good-quality stuff. (We won't carry junky parts that we wouldn't use on our own trains!) We also carry prewar paints, but like the postwar, don't expect perfect matches. Original colors have faded over the years. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html Port Lines has three different catalogs available. Catalog #1 contains our complete listing of American Flyer Repair & Restoration Parts. Catalog #2 is our current Used AF Equipment List. Catalog #3 contains New Equipment & Products from all the different S manufacturers which we carry. Catalog #1 is $3.00. Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each. A set of all three catalogs is $6.00. VISA-MC-DISCOVER-AMEX ACCEPTED.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5773	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Re: S crane

In a message dated 11/7/99 5:15:08 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<I just received my TTOS "Bulletin" which included the ad for the 2000 convention cars. One sheet has a Lionel crane and gondola in SP Daylight colors. The sheet subtly mentions "Also available in S Gauge. Flyer Crane and Gondola. First flyer crane since 1965.">> <<Yep!!! I've been telling youse guys to save up your money!! Well, the secret is finally out--gads, I've been sitting on this for about 9 months!! Whew!!! No one can blame me for premature info releases on this one! Now for the bad news, L can't find the Flyer crane body molds. It may be an L crane body on AF stuff. >> Yep....I had heard this one before too. My understanding is that it is the O crane cab on an S base. Despite the O-27 / S uproar of the past, I suspect this one may not be quite so bad. I also understand we will see this crane in the regular 2000 catalog too. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5774	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Subscribe

To Paul York, Please subscribe me again...I am back in town...Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5775	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, November 07, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5776	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Lionel Help!!!

Just unpacking from S-fest. Picked up a Lionel GP-9 #4-8552. The directions state the engine will run on AC, my questions are: 1. Is the motor universal like older A-F engines? 2. If it will run on DC how is the rectifier wired in? 3. What DCC decoder is required and how is it wired? John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5777	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel Help!!!

I think the engine has a can motor, not a universal wound, and runs on either AC or DC with electronic sequence reversing. The rectifier to run the can motor is wired into the reversing printed wiring board. Not familiar with DCC so can't help with that. RxMan46321@... wrote: > > From: RxMan46321@... > > Just unpacking from S-fest. Picked up a Lionel GP-9 #4-8552. The directions > state the engine will run on AC, my questions are: > > 1. Is the motor universal like older A-F engines? > 2. If it will run on DC how is the rectifier wired in? > 3. What DCC decoder is required and how is it wired? > > John Griffin > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5778	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Whaaat?

Do my eyes decieve me or did I see a note from someone asking how to fix a L**** Engine? Doesn't that person know what trains this site is for? Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5779	From: Roger Hinds	Date: 11/7/1999
Subject: Re: THE Bible About AF Sets Now Available

Joseph Haenn wrote: > The Almost Complete Guide to American Flyer S Gauge > Sets > By Robert J. Tufts > > A.C. Gilbert Company. > This book contains a master listing > sets and set boxes, > including uncatalogued sets from > 1946 through 1968 (yes, 2 years after their last > catalog!!). How can this be? I thought Gilbert stopped production In 1966 and sold out to General Mills In 1967. These must have been left over Gilbert items that General Mills sold off. They could not have been sold by Gilbert directly to suppliers. Or is my memory failing me ? Comments ? Anyway it sounds like a worthwhile book to have. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5780	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: THE Bible About AF Sets Now Available

In a message dated 11/7/99 10:26:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, cofa@... writes: << including uncatalogued sets from > 1946 through 1968 (yes, 2 years after their last > catalog!!). How can this be? I thought Gilbert stopped production In 1966 and sold out to General Mills In 1967. These must have been left over Gilbert items that General Mills sold off. They could not have been sold by Gilbert directly to suppliers. >> Tufts book is a very good one, but it has a some questionable entries and this is one of them. (There are a few clitches - the book has Maury Romer retiring in 1961. He retired in 1966.) The set from '1968' has a six digit number. I suspect that these may be trains packaged by Lionel after Gilbert had completed folded. Lionel did act as a sales agent liquidating left over stock. Bob admits in the back of the book that there may be a some errors and he does ask readers to supply him with input on typos and missing data. Worth having, nonetheless. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5781	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Digest Number 427

Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com > From: Roger Hinds <cofa@...> >Subject: Re: THE Bible About AF Sets Now Available > 1946 through 1968 (yes, 2 years after their last > catalog!!). > How can this be? I thought Gilbert stopped production >In 1966 and sold out to General Mills In 1967. >These must have been left over Gilbert items that General > Mills sold off. They could not have been sold by Gilbert >directly to suppliers. > >Or is my memory failing me ? Please help. I always thought Gilbert sold to Lassie people, who sold to Lionel, who closed in 1966, rights were then sold to General Mills. charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5782	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: UMD Caboose

Hi Guys, United Model Distributors normally makes a line of 027 cars in their "Industrial Rail" series. Their latest is a caboose. IT'S AN S-GAUGE CABOOSE ON 027 TRUCKS!!!! Or more precisely, it a good model of the ACF caboose as used by the Santa Fe since the '30s. I checked it out against my SouthWind brass ATSF caboose and it measures about 1/16" short and 0.075" wider than the SouthWind model. In other words, "Close Enough for Government Work." Plus, IMHO, it looks a lot better than the Lionel 027-clone caboose. It took me about a half hour to plug the truck holes and mount a pair of AM hirail trucks and SHS hirail caboose couplers from my scrap box. With this combination, the UMD caboose sits at the correct height and is as high as the SouthWind model. One could mount Flyer trucks, but the bolster would have to be trimmed so the caboose wouldn't appear top-heavy. Detail is reasonable, with most of it molded in. The body is a one piece casting, floor/frame is plastic with separate parts for the end railings and ladders. No glazing or illumination. Paint job is OK. The only real glaring problem is the cupola ends, they are at a slight angle and are undetailed, no doubt to ease in removal from the mold. With S trucks and couplers, the UMD caboose is fine out of the box for most HiRailer Folk, while the Scale Guys will likey want to replace the ladders and railings with something finer, plus maybe do some detailing to the cupola ends. Haven't done a scale conversion yet, need to pick up another caboose. But, all that should be needed are trucks, a pair of SHS spacers, plus notch out the end beams for Kadee's. Comes in three flavors right now, Santa Fe, Burlington Northern, Chessie System. MSRP is $26.95. So, even factoring in new trucks and couplers, ya gots a caboose for under fouty bucks. You can always give out the 027 trucks for Trick-or-Treat next year. Be seeing you Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5783	From: Andy McBride	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: "casual" & "serious" bidding

Fellow list member and "rubber gauger" Paul Schnieder brought up an interesting question when he was bidding on a Flyer O-scale piece. His question was: >I wonder how many of the folks on eBay who bid on the >stuff *I* collect--postwar Flyer, that is--approach >bidding the same way. That is, they don't own the >price guides, they don't subscribe to s list like >this. They're simply "casual" buyers who bid on stuff >they like. Rather than research the price, they simply >bid what they think it's worth, a purely subjective >approach (versus relying on the "objective" data in >the price guide). > >The question is: Is this good or bad for the hobby >overall? Well Paul I remember two things from my Micro-Economics 201 course: 1) My God Micro-Economics is boring. 2) An Auction is the most accurate guide for the value of a product or service. The reason for this is simple. In an auction the buyer is naming his or her price. Regardless of what the seller's preconceived idea of the value is, it's the buyer whom is determining the item's value. Therefore at the end of an auction a review of the bids gives one a very accurate picture of how much people are willing to invest or in other words the true value of an item. Of course this system may be the most accurate but it's certainly not perfect. If Bill Gates decides tomorrow that his "Rosebud" is a Flyer Atlantic and he goes on eBay and blows $100,000.00 on a $85.00 locomotive this does not mean that all Atlantic's are now worth $100,000.00. It simply means that it is worth that much to Bill Gates. If others were to follow suite though then yes, this locomotives value would go up (and I'd be a rich man). An example of auctions acting as a price guide one needs to look no further then the popular PBS series "Antique Roadshow." You'll note that when the appraisers look at an item they never reference Price Guide Books. Instead they reference past auctions as a benchmark for the value of an item. So to answer your question Paul no, "casual bidding" is not damaging the hobby market. In fact I would say that what your doing is exactly what you should be doing. You took a look at an item and without consulting other people's preconceived notion of what the value is you decided how much it was worth to you. If you continue to purchase items in this way you'll never over or under pay for anything. Instead you'll always pay exactly what the value is to you. Andy McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5784	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: UMD Caboose

Veery interestink! And, prey tell (pun intended), where does one in a rural, trainshop-less area find UMD products? Any images on the net anywhere? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5785	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: UMD Caboose

Well, I checked the web, and while I found a few shops listing Industrial Rail products, nobody has the cabooses (caboosi?) listed yet...they may be just too new. Anyhow, I got mine at: CHICAGOLAND HOBBY 6017 NORTHWEST HWY. CHICAGO, IL60631 Phone: 773-775-4848 Fax: 773-775-6398 Chicagoland Hobby is an "O-Gauge" store. I haven't seen these cabooses anywhere else yet. It may take a while to filter through the system. Be seeing you, Rich G. djdewey@... wrote: > > Veery interestink! And, prey tell (pun intended), where does one in a rural, > trainshop-less area find UMD products? Any images on the net anywhere? > S' > David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5786	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: O ga carz on S trux?

Looking a two O boxcars, one Scale and one LIONel, course the L unit is 'compressed'. Seems like years ago I heard that Tinplate O was basically an S car on a O tinplate truck. My eyeballs seem to confirm that. Width might be a problem? I have heard nothing of that on the S List, maybe its not relevant? The tinplate O is a L operating car, electromagnet pulls down a coupler operating like device hanging in center under the car and door slides open while the hobo or trainman waves... Bet this mechanism would fit an S boxcar, even a near-scale one... Would an S uncoupler work this? Still musing... L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5787	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: O ga carz on S trux?

Looking a two O boxcars, one Scale and one LIONel, course the L unit is 'compressed'. Seems like years ago I heard that Tinplate O was basically an S car on a O tinplate truck. My eyeballs seem to confirm that. Width might be a problem? I have heard nothing of that on the S List, maybe its not relevant? The tinplate O is a L operating car, electromagnet pulls down a coupler operating like device hanging in center under the car and door slides open while the hobo or trainman waves... Bet this mechanism would fit an S boxcar, even a near-scale one... Would an S uncoupler work this? Still musing... L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5788	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: UMD Caboose

Dear Rich, When I was in China this September I visited the pad printing department and saw the UMD cabooses. I was not sure who's cabooses they were, but I sure did know what scale. It would not be polite to ask about someone else's project, but I was real curious. Later, I saw the underfames and then I realized that they were intended for the 027 market. They had them on display at the UMD booth at the National Model and Hobby Show last week and I tool several "S" gaugers to see them. The only odd thing that I saw on the model was the front cupola windows seemed kinda large. Don Thompson Rich Gajnak wrote: > From: Rich Gajnak <rich.gajnak@...> > > Hi Guys, > > United Model Distributors normally makes a line of 027 cars in their > "Industrial Rail" series. Their latest is a caboose. > > IT'S AN S-GAUGE CABOOSE ON 027 TRUCKS!!!! > > Or more precisely, it a good model of the ACF caboose as used by the > Santa Fe since the '30s. > > I checked it out against my SouthWind brass ATSF caboose and it > measures about 1/16" short and 0.075" wider than the SouthWind model. > > In other words, "Close Enough for Government Work." > > Plus, IMHO, it looks a lot better than the Lionel 027-clone caboose. > > It took me about a half hour to plug the truck holes and mount a pair > of AM hirail trucks and SHS hirail caboose couplers from my scrap box. > With this combination, the UMD caboose sits at the correct height and > is as high as the SouthWind model. > > One could mount Flyer trucks, but the bolster would have to be trimmed > so the caboose wouldn't appear top-heavy. > > Detail is reasonable, with most of it molded in. The body is a one > piece casting, floor/frame is plastic with separate parts for the > end railings and ladders. No glazing or illumination. Paint job > is OK. > > The only real glaring problem is the cupola ends, they are at a > slight angle and are undetailed, no doubt to ease in removal from > the mold. > > With S trucks and couplers, the UMD caboose is fine out of the box > for most HiRailer Folk, while the Scale Guys will likey want to replace > the ladders and railings with something finer, plus maybe do some > detailing to the cupola ends. > > Haven't done a scale conversion yet, need to pick up another caboose. > But, all that should be needed are trucks, a pair of SHS spacers, plus > notch out the end beams for Kadee's. > > Comes in three flavors right now, Santa Fe, Burlington Northern, > Chessie System. > > MSRP is $26.95. > > So, even factoring in new trucks and couplers, ya gots a caboose > for under fouty bucks. > > You can always give out the 027 trucks for Trick-or-Treat next year. > > Be seeing you > Rich G. > > -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5789	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: UMD Caboose

robin@... wrote: > > Dear Rich, > When I was in China this September I visited the pad printing > department and saw the UMD cabooses. I was not sure who's cabooses they > were, but I sure did know what scale. It would not be polite to ask about > someone else's project, but I was real curious. Later, I saw the > underfames and then I realized that they were intended for the 027 market. > They had them on display at the UMD booth at the National Model and Hobby > Show last week and I tool several "S" gaugers to see them. The only odd > thing that I saw on the model was the front cupola windows seemed kinda > large. > Don Thompson > <SNIP> > -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets > are now shipping! Yep, like I said in my first post, the UMD caboose compares pretty good to the SouthWind caboose. I've been comparing it with my SouthWind model for most of Sunday. (Do I need a life, or what?) A semi-skilled plasticsmith should be able to correct the oversize cupola end windows. The slight angle of the cupola ends would present more of a challenge, but for a car targeted to the wrong market, it ain't too bad. What caught my eye the first time was the fact that with the 027 trucks on, it kinda looks like a little kid wearing his fathers shoes. Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5790	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: O ga carz on S trux?

The small Lionel 027 double door boxcar, started as 6014 but many numbers since then, is dead on S scale. Laying it on some old MR 3/16" scale boxcar plans indicates the only out of scale element is that the ladder rungs are a little long. I have a modest collection of them with S trucks and have used 3 of them for sound cars because it's easy to fit a 2" speaker in them. Most other Lionel small cars are a little wide. A Marx plastic or Lionel small tank car can be used if put on a Flyer chassis. I run the Lionel S gauge horse car which is a somewhat oversize but kids like the action. Anyone else have any recommendations? LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > > From: LARSPAINTR@... > > Looking a two O boxcars, one Scale and one LIONel, course the L unit is > 'compressed'. Seems like years ago I heard that Tinplate O was basically an > S car on a O tinplate truck. My eyeballs seem to confirm that. Width might > be a problem? > I have heard nothing of that on the S List, maybe its not relevant? > The tinplate O is a L operating car, electromagnet pulls down a coupler > operating like device hanging in center under the car and door slides open > while the hobo or trainman waves... > Bet this mechanism would fit an S boxcar, even a near-scale one... > Would an S uncoupler work this? > Still musing... > L. > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5791	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 11/8/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: UMD Caboose

What other freight cars does UMD offer that might ber of some use in S? cheers Don Thompson wrote: > From: Don Thompson <robin@...> > > Dear Rich, > When I was in China this September I visited the pad printing > department and saw the UMD cabooses. I was not sure who's cabooses they > were, but I sure did know what scale. It would not be polite to ask about > someone else's project, but I was real curious. Later, I saw the > underfames and then I realized that they were intended for the 027 market. > They had them on display at the UMD booth at the National Model and Hobby > Show last week and I tool several "S" gaugers to see them. The only odd > thing that I saw on the model was the front cupola windows seemed kinda > large. > Don Thompson > > Rich Gajnak wrote: > > > From: Rich Gajnak <rich.gajnak@...> > > > > Hi Guys, > > > > United Model Distributors normally makes a line of 027 cars in their > > "Industrial Rail" series. Their latest is a caboose. > > > > IT'S AN S-GAUGE CABOOSE ON 027 TRUCKS!!!! > > > > Or more precisely, it a good model of the ACF caboose as used by the > > Santa Fe since the '30s. > > > > I checked it out against my SouthWind brass ATSF caboose and it > > measures about 1/16" short and 0.075" wider than the SouthWind model. > > > > In other words, "Close Enough for Government Work." > > > > Plus, IMHO, it looks a lot better than the Lionel 027-clone caboose. > > > > It took me about a half hour to plug the truck holes and mount a pair > > of AM hirail trucks and SHS hirail caboose couplers from my scrap box. > > With this combination, the UMD caboose sits at the correct height and > > is as high as the SouthWind model. > > > > One could mount Flyer trucks, but the bolster would have to be trimmed > > so the caboose wouldn't appear top-heavy. > > > > Detail is reasonable, with most of it molded in. The body is a one > > piece casting, floor/frame is plastic with separate parts for the > > end railings and ladders. No glazing or illumination. Paint job > > is OK. > > > > The only real glaring problem is the cupola ends, they are at a > > slight angle and are undetailed, no doubt to ease in removal from > > the mold. > > > > With S trucks and couplers, the UMD caboose is fine out of the box > > for most HiRailer Folk, while the Scale Guys will likey want to replace > > the ladders and railings with something finer, plus maybe do some > > detailing to the cupola ends. > > > > Haven't done a scale conversion yet, need to pick up another caboose. > > But, all that should be needed are trucks, a pair of SHS spacers, plus > > notch out the end beams for Kadee's. > > > > Comes in three flavors right now, Santa Fe, Burlington Northern, > > Chessie System. > > > > MSRP is $26.95. > > > > So, even factoring in new trucks and couplers, ya gots a caboose > > for under fouty bucks. > > > > You can always give out the 027 trucks for Trick-or-Treat next year. > > > > Be seeing you > > Rich G. > > > > > -- Don Thompson > S Helper Service Inc. > http://www.showcaseline.com > 1.800.465.0303 > New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets > are now shipping! > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5792	From: Neil Trump	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Overseas purchasing from ebay

To all: Yet again I spy an interesting item on Ebay and read carefully the sellers criteria. More often than not these days a disclaimer goes in to say that they will not ship overseas. The latest one being, sgauge@.... I asked the seller if he would post it to an APO address and this was refused. Now I thought that an APO address is classed as being within the US, sounds like some people think otherwise. Some one that is getting p*%$�!d off with Ebay sellers!! Neil T. England

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5793	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] UMD Caboose

> 0500 From: Alex Binkley <alex.binkley@... > Subject: Re: Re: UMD Caboose > What other freight cars does UMD offer that might ber of some use in S? cheers From what I can see, the caboose is the only car in the UMD line that is suitable for "S". UMD has a covered hopper that was severly selectivly compressed, based on the old '50s Lionel N&W covered hopper (the number escapes me) but it appears to be too tall and too wide. All of the rest of their line appears to be proportioned to the Lionel 6464 boxcar. Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5794	From: Michael Greene	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: Overseas purchasing from ebay

At 06:38 AM 11/09/1999 -0800, Neil Trump wrote: >To all: > >Yet again I spy an interesting item on Ebay and read carefully the sellers >criteria. More often than not these days a disclaimer goes in to say that >they will not ship overseas. The latest one being, >sgauge@.... I asked the seller if he would post it to an APO >address and this was refused. Now I thought that an APO address is >classed as being within the US, sounds like some people think otherwise. > >Some one that is getting p*%$�!d off with Ebay sellers!! > >Neil T. > >England Neil, While I can't speak for other eBay sellers, I can offer a little insight from my perspective. In background, I am not a dealer and I don't sell model railroad items via Ebay at this time, but have sold other items. I prefer not to ship internationally, and I won't buy internationally. eBay is an anonymous transaction service, with few if any financial controls in place. I would only buy internationally if they seller accepts Visa/Mastercard, for the obvious financial protection. And I would only sell internationally with up front payment in US dollars, and shipment via a door to door trackable, insured delivery service such as UPS or DHL, at the buyer's expense, for the obvious protection to me as a seller. The only two times I have been stiffed on eBay are by international bidders who do not pay, one of whom did not read that I don't ship internationally, and bid anyway, and still did not pay after I agreed to make an exception. Also note that consumer protection laws are almost non-existent (in real terms) for transactions that occur across international borders. Also while most don't want to admit it, it costs extra time and effort to ship internationally. Yes it's simple extra work -- an extra trip to the shipper to get a shipping charge quote, and plus extra paperwork typically for customs. But it requires time off from work, and extra time. So the buyer should expect to pay for that extra time & effort. Because of past problems, all future eBay auctions from me will include a $30 international shipping charge PLUS the cost of actual insured door-to-door shipping via UPS. In short, to me as a seller, for the items I sell via eBAY (again non model railroad items), there are no significant benefits for the extra hassle, time & costs of shipping internationally. I get plenty of bids domestically, and have been very pleased with the prices I have received. Just one seller's viewpoint...and sorry it sounds harsh, but my view is that unless you're a dealer with a lot of the dealer infrastructure in place, EBay is not a "seller friendly" environment. regards Michael PS Just FYI, I buy and sell a reasonable amount of model railroad items internationally (mostly buy, but occasionally sell), just not via eBay. My transactions are all with KNOWN individuals, where we have built up a history of positive transactions...and this is the big difference from eBay transactions. If I had a model railroad item, and offered it for sale to the S-Trains list for example, I'd be much more inclined to ship internationally, since list member represent a more known quantity than anonymous eBay bidders.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5795	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Friendly Train Store!

Hi "S" people, If you ever have a chance to visit Nashville, TN....stop by and visit Peterson's Train Store located @ 2613 McGavoick Pike....telephone # 615-391-3516...a very nice guy with a lot of interesting products....at the time I visited him, he did not have much in flyer...but we talked for over an hour....had a lot of new and old "L"....and also G ....he also had a nice assortment of snow village buildings....thought I pass it on to the list.. --

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5796	From: Bill Porter	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: Overseas purchasing from ebay

Here is one more eBay perspective. I buy and sell on eBay - both trains and other stuff. When I sell internationally, I must make a trip to the local post office (12 miles each way) and fill out forms for customs and other purposes. I do it since the contacts with other collectors is worth the effort. But, it is an effort and it is easy to understand why some sellers don't want to take the time. Many of the sellers are earning a living or a major fraction of a living through the auctions. For them, time is money. Any sale needs to make at least enough to cover the cost of the time to: (1) prepare photos and text, (2) upload them onto a server (which may or may not be free), (3) fill out the eBay listing form, (4) notify the winning bidder (and often remind them when they 'forget' to pay up), (5) receive and process the payments, leave feedback, (6) notify the bidder of receipt of payment, (7) pack and (8) ship the goods. Add it up and the work comes to a significant portion of time. If the seller is not in it just for the fun, they either have to make a bunch on each sale or cut down the time and effort. One way to do that is to avoid international shipping or (in their ignorance) IPO and APO shipping. For me, a large part of the fun is the correspondence with the other buyers and sellers - but, that is another story. Later, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Neil Trump <neil_trump@...> To: s-trains <s-trains@onelist.com> Date: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 1:40 AM Subject: [S-Trains] Overseas purchasing from ebay >To all: > >Yet again I spy an interesting item on Ebay and read carefully the sellers criteria. More often than not these days a disclaimer goes in to say that they will not ship overseas. The latest one being, sgauge@.... I asked the seller if he would post it to an APO address and this was refused. Now I thought that an APO address is classed as being within the US, sounds like some people think otherwise. > >Some one that is getting p*%$�!d off with Ebay sellers!! > >Neil T. > >England >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5797	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: just questions

Hi everyone! I have some interesting questions I hope some of you can help me with. 1. Is it possible to control two seperate train horns, on two different tracks, with one whistle controler. Maybe by hooking up some kind of a/b switch or something similar? 2. My second question is a little more involved. I have a Baldwin switcher (cnw) that I turned into a dummy engine as a 7 year old. Needless to say I lost the armature and mounting bracket. I still have the e-unit though. I would like to get this engine running again with the use of a dc can motor. A friend of mine and I were talking at the train show the other day and thought we could do this if I could find a mounting bracket and made a longer shaft for the motor. Does anyone have any good ideas on how I could do this, and would any of the parts dealers carry this part? In the service manual by K-line it shows part 17 on the diagram and list the part number as xa15a777 bearing and mount assembly. He also mentioned something to use so I can still run on ac also. Any ideas? Thanks for the help in advance. In case you are wondering,I have the Christmas layout started for this year and would like to use the whistle on my 336 and k 325. 8' x10' layout with two ovals and a passing siding on the inside. Lots of flyer and dept. 56 moving accessories add lots of motion on the layout. If anyone is interested I could send some pics to Paul and he could put them up for anyone to see. Thanks again, Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5798	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: AF 772 Checkerboard tower

Anyone besides me notice the 772 on Jay Lenos Tonight show last night? It was mixed in with a bunch of L - - - - - stuff. Keep "S"miling Steve Blackburn...Boise

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5799	From: Neil Trump	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: Overseas purchasing from ebay

To all: >And I would only sell internationally with up >front payment in US dollars Which I do >at the buyer's expense Not a problem with me >Also note that consumer protection laws are almost non-existent >(in real terms) for transactions that occur across international borders. A risk that I am prepared to take and do. >Also while most don't want to admit it, it costs extra time and effort to >ship internationally. Ah ha, now it suddenly becomes very clear. >Yes it's simple extra work -- an extra trip to the >shipper to get a shipping charge quote, and plus extra paperwork typically >for customs. But it requires time off from work, and extra time. So the >buyer should expect to pay for that extra time & effort. Because of past >problems, all future eBay auctions from me will include a $30 international >shipping charge PLUS the cost of actual insured door-to-door shipping via UPS. But surely if you want to liqudate some of your assets you must be prepared to put a little effort in at times to reap the rewards. PS Just FYI My other hobby apart from Flyer trains are vintage double deck buses. Over the years I have amassed tons of new parts to support vehicles back to the thirties. I get a number of requests per year to send parts around the world. King pin sets, clutch assembly�s etc. etc. Items like these need special packing and freighting. Quite often I drive the 20 miles to Heathrow to air freight parts out. I do it because it�s a hobby and the people appreciate my time and effort. From supplying parts I now occasionally ship complete vehicles around the world, US, Canada included. If you are in Vancouver at all, you will see four vehicles being operated by Grey Line, I shipped these, it took about four months of planning. Bear in mind this is a hobby, I have a full time job and a family to fit in to my life. So, what am I trying to say, a few minutes filling out some paper work seems to be too much effort for some? Sounds like it. There are people on this list who I have a good rapport with and are quite happy to fit in with my shipping requirements who are both private individuals and dealers, thanks fellas. In fact I met up with some at the York show. Just to finish, before I get off my soap box, I have even asked people to ship within the US and a friend would forward on to me, I�m not going to print the reply because I�ll let you work it out. This proves the posting is not the issue. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5800	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: Overseas purchasing from ebay

There are still some nice people in this world. have fun Larry Neil Trump wrote: > From: "Neil Trump" <neil_trump@...> > > To all: > > >And I would only sell internationally with up > >front payment in US dollars > > Which I do > > >at the buyer's expense > > Not a problem with me > > >Also note that consumer protection laws are almost non-existent > >(in real terms) for transactions that occur across international borders. > > A risk that I am prepared to take and do. > > >Also while most don't want to admit it, it costs extra time and effort to > >ship internationally. > > Ah ha, now it suddenly becomes very clear. > > >Yes it's simple extra work -- an extra trip to the > >shipper to get a shipping charge quote, and plus extra paperwork typically > >for customs. But it requires time off from work, and extra time. So the > >buyer should expect to pay for that extra time & effort. Because of past > >problems, all future eBay auctions from me will include a $30 international > >shipping charge PLUS the cost of actual insured door-to-door shipping via > UPS. > > But surely if you want to liqudate some of your assets you must be prepared > to > put a little effort in at times to reap the rewards. > > PS Just FYI > > My other hobby apart from Flyer trains are vintage double deck buses. > Over the years I have amassed tons of new parts to support vehicles > back to the thirties. I get a number of requests per year to send parts > around > the world. King pin sets, clutch assembly�s etc. etc. Items like these > need special packing and freighting. Quite often I drive the 20 miles to > Heathrow to air freight parts out. I do it because it�s a hobby and the > people appreciate my time and effort. > > >From supplying parts I now occasionally ship complete vehicles around > the world, US, Canada included. If you are in Vancouver at all, you will > see > four vehicles being operated by Grey Line, I shipped these, it took about > four months of planning. Bear in mind this is a hobby, I have a full time > job > and a family to fit in to my life. > > So, what am I trying to say, a few minutes filling out some paper work seems > to > be too much effort for some? Sounds like it. > > There are people on this list who I have a good rapport with and are quite > happy > to fit in with my shipping requirements who are both private individuals and > dealers, thanks fellas. In fact I met up with some at the York show. > > Just to finish, before I get off my soap box, I have even asked people to > ship > within the US and a friend would forward on to me, I�m not going to print > the reply > because I�ll let you work it out. > > This proves the posting is not the issue. > > Neil T. > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5801	From: Michael Greene	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: Overseas purchasing from ebay

See my comments below At 06:06 PM 11/09/1999 -0800, Neil Trump wrote: >From: "Neil Trump" <neil_trump@...> <snip> >But surely if you want to liqudate some of your assets you must be prepared >to >put a little effort in at times to reap the rewards. You're right, and like anyone in business I expect a return commensurate with the investment. Even tho' I'm a private individual, my time is not free. As regards the comments below, you've missed my point. I gladly do these things (and more) often at my expense, for hobby stuff, for "known" individuals -- like a fellow hobbyist, a member of this list, etc. Although I have not shipped any 1:1 scale buses! The difference is that I don't consider eBay (or any other auction service) anything of this "known" type. To me eBay is simply another way to liquidate assets, and as a seller I want to do so with the highest margin. And because of my work schedule(like you, I have a full time job), my personal time is very important to me. (I have discovered over the years I value my personal time even more.) So for eBay, I will often optimize to reduce total personal time outlay, even if I have to accept a lower margin. By limiting to domestic bidders, I may get a lower price, but have reduced work. It's a simple choice - would I rather be filling out an extra customs form for an eBay sale and making an extra trip to the shipper, or building a new structure kit for the layout? I know which I'd rather be doing. Another list member noted the details about the time required to utilize eBay as a channel of distribution. I consider eBay a high maintenance distribution channel, and expect a return commensurate with the time investment, as well as the value of the item. >PS Just FYI > >My other hobby apart from Flyer trains are vintage double deck buses. >Over the years I have amassed tons of new parts to support vehicles >back to the thirties. I get a number of requests per year to send parts >around >the world. King pin sets, clutch assembly's etc. etc. Items like these >need special packing and freighting. Quite often I drive the 20 miles to >Heathrow to air freight parts out. I do it because it's a hobby and the >people appreciate my time and effort. > > >From supplying parts I now occasionally ship complete vehicles around >the world, US, Canada included. If you are in Vancouver at all, you will >see >four vehicles being operated by Grey Line, I shipped these, it took about >four months of planning. Bear in mind this is a hobby, I have a full time >job >and a family to fit in to my life. > >So, what am I trying to say, a few minutes filling out some paper work seems >to >be too much effort for some? Sounds like it. > >There are people on this list who I have a good rapport with and are quite >happy >to fit in with my shipping requirements who are both private individuals and >dealers, thanks fellas. In fact I met up with some at the York show. > >Just to finish, before I get off my soap box, I have even asked people to >ship >within the US and a friend would forward on to me, I'm not going to print >the reply >because I'll let you work it out. > >This proves the posting is not the issue. > > >Neil T. > >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5802	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: New S Gauge Starter Sets

Several friends have asked for a break down or cars in the starter sets. Please forgive this blatant merchandising on our group. Don Thompson The sets include the following: - C&O #00457 starter set includes: C&O #00427 SW-9, Muncie & Western (The Ball Lines) #00411 steel boxcar, NKP #00077 PS-2, Clinchfield #00142 wooden boxcar, Baltimore & Ohio #00301 TOFC, C&O #00221 Extended Vision caboose, #00256 S-Trax set (40" x 60" oval with 12 19" curved and four 10" straight sections) and a #5400 CD power pack with momentum MSRP $369.95. - Conrail #00458 starter set includes: Conrail #00112 SW-9, NYC #00130 steel boxcar, Conrail #00088 PS-2, Rutland #00141 Wooden boxcar, Conrail #00229 Extended Vision caboose, #00256 S-Trax set (40" x 60" oval with 12 19" curved and four 10" straight sections) and a #5400 CD power pack with momentum MSRP $299.95. - Rio Grande #00459 starter set includes: Rio Grande #00431 SW-9, WP #00065 stock car, SP #00091 PS-2, Pacific Electric #00146 wooden boxcar, Rio Grande #00308 TOFC, CB&Q #00399 three bay PS-2, Rio Grande #00231 Extended Vision caboose, #00256 S-Trax set (40" x 60" oval with 12 19" curved and four 10" straight sections) and a #5400 CD power pack with momentum MSRP $399.95. - Great Northern #00460 starter set includes: Great Northern #00429 SW-9, CB&Q #00150 stock car, - Great Northern #00076 PS-2, Milwaukee Road #00144 wooden boxcar, Great Northern #00402 three bay PS-2, Great Northern #00223 Extended Vision caboose, #00256 S-Trax set (40" x 60" oval with 12 19" curved and four 10" straight sections) and a #5400 CD power pack with momentum MSRP $399.95. - Illinois Central Gulf #00461 starter set includes: Illinois Central Gulf #00433 SW-9, ACL #00055 stock car, Katy #00082 PS-2, Wabash #00147 wooden boxcar Seaboard #00183 TOFC, Illinois Central Gulf #00235 Extended Vision caboose, #00256 S-Trax set (40" x 60" oval with 12 19" curved and four 10" straight sections) and a #5400 CD power pack with momentum MSRP $369.95. - Northern Pacific #00462 starter set includes: Northern Pacific #00453 SW-9, CN #00139 stock car, Soo Line #00079 PS-2, Canadian Pacific #00075 wooden boxcar, CNW #00188 TOFC, Northern Pacific #00239 Extended Vision caboose, #00256 S-Trax set (40" x 60" oval with 12 19" curved and four 10" straight sections) and a #5400 CD power pack with momentum MSRP $369.95. MChoate@... wrote: > Do you have the stock #'s available for the cars contained in the sets? -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5803	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Re: AF 772 Checkerboard tower

No, but I hope Leno gets his butt sued for that sketch about Amtrak, all the wrecks, and the stupid kid throwing the models around.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5804	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: junk box

Hi all, Being train poor during the primo swap meet period, all I ended up with last Sunday was a Leventon junk box (I was glad to get it!). I have more drumless reverse units than any flyer boy will ever need. They'll go well with the dozen cast tanker frames and the baker's dozen topless and bottomless smoke units. Anyway, there was a nice, black 625 tank body with good paint and decals but a warped body. Has anyone on the list messed around with reheating a tanker body to straighten it out? Maybe a hot water bottle (tube)? Jacques

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5805	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 11/9/1999
Subject: Fw: Food For Thought : SANTA AND THE SOLDIER

----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 1999 8:40 AM Subject: Food For Thought : SANTA AND THE SOLDIER > In a message dated 11/8/99 9:17:21 PM Mountain Standard Time, Rush oLiTe > writes: > > << > Subject: SANTA AND THE SOLDIER > > > > > > TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS, > > HE LIVED ALL ALONE, > > IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OF > > PLASTER AND STONE. > > > > I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEY > > WITH PRESENTS TO GIVE, > > AND TO SEE JUST WHO > > IN THIS HOME DID LIVE. > > > > I LOOKED ALL ABOUT, > > A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE, > > NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS, > > NOT EVEN A TREE. > > > > NO STOCKING BY MANTLE, > > JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND, > > ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES > > OF FAR DISTANT LANDS. > > > > WITH MEDALS AND BADGES, > > AWARDS OF ALL KINDS, > > A SOBER THOUGHT > > CAME THROUGH MY MIND. > > > > FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT, > > IT WAS DARK AND DREARY, > > I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER, > > ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY. > > > > THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING, > > SILENT, ALONE, > > CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR > > IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME. > > > > THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE, > > THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER, > > NOT HOW I PICTURED > > A UNITED STATES SOLDIER. > > > > > WAS THIS THE HERO > > OF WHOM I'D JUST READ? > > CURLED UP ON A PONCHO, > > THE FLOOR FOR A BED? > > > > I REALIZED THE FAMILIES > > THAT I SAW THIS NIGHT, > > OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERS > > WHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT. > > > > SOON ROUND THE WORLD, > > THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY, > > AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATE > > A BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY. > > > > THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOM > > EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR, > > BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS, > > LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE > > > > I COULDN'T HELP WONDER > > HOW MANY LAY ALONE, > > ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVE > > IN A LAND FAR FROM HOME. > > > > THE VERY THOUGHT > > BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE, > > I DROPPED TO MY KNEES > > AND STARTED TO CRY. > > > > THE SOLDIER AWAKENED > > AND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE, > > "SANTA DON'T CRY, > > THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE; > > > > I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM, > > I DON'T ASK FOR MORE, > > MY LIFE IS MY GOD, > > MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS." > > > > THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER > > AND DRIFTED TO SLEEP, > > I COULDN'T CONTROL IT, > > I CONTINUED TO WEEP. > > > > I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS, > > SO SILENT AND STILL > > AND WE BOTH SHIVERED > > FROM THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL. > > > > I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE > > ON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT, > > THIS GUARDIAN OF HONOR > > SO WILLING TO FIGHT. > > > > THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER, > > WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE, > > WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA, > > IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE." > > > > ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH, > > AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT. > > "MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND, > > AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT." > > > > This poem was written by a Marine stationed in Okinawa Japan. > > The following is his request. I think it is reasonable..... > > > > PLEASE. Would you do me the kind favor of sending this to as many > > people as you can? > > Christmas will be coming soon and some credit is due to our U.S. > > Service men and women for our being able to celebrate these festivities. > > > > Let's try in this small way to pay a tiny bit of what we owe. Make people > > stop and think of our heroes, living and dead, who sacrificed themselves > > for us. > > Please, do your small part to plant this small seed. > >> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: BOBBISUEB@... [SMTP:BOBBISUEB@...] > Sent: 03 of November,1999 05:35 PM > To: CocoBeary@...; DEE.BERRYMAN@...; > TDOYLE3333@...; Feedcows@...; GBicandi@...; > Hound10@...; IdFunGrl@...; JANKV@...; Haylyn@...; > CMINT4U@...; LMC5@...; ODDNOTEVEN@...; Promods@...; > Skeater333@...; sharon.maddox@...; dbrmn@...; > TO4GON@... > Subject: SANTA AND THE SOLDIER > > > TWAS THE NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS, > HE LIVED ALL ALONE, > IN A ONE BEDROOM HOUSE MADE OF > PLASTER AND STONE. > > I HAD COME DOWN THE CHIMNEY > WITH PRESENTS TO GIVE, > AND TO SEE JUST WHO > IN THIS HOME DID LIVE. > > I LOOKED ALL ABOUT, > A STRANGE SIGHT I DID SEE, > NO TINSEL, NO PRESENTS, > NOT EVEN A TREE. > > NO STOCKING BY MANTLE, > JUST BOOTS FILLED WITH SAND, > ON THE WALL HUNG PICTURES > OF FAR DISTANT LANDS. > > WITH MEDALS AND BADGES, > AWARDS OF ALL KINDS, > A SOBER THOUGHT > CAME THROUGH MY MIND. > > FOR THIS HOUSE WAS DIFFERENT, > IT WAS DARK AND DREARY, > I FOUND THE HOME OF A SOLDIER, > ONCE I COULD SEE CLEARLY. > > THE SOLDIER LAY SLEEPING, > SILENT, ALONE, > CURLED UP ON THE FLOOR > IN THIS ONE BEDROOM HOME. > > THE FACE WAS SO GENTLE, > THE ROOM IN SUCH DISORDER, > NOT HOW I PICTURED > A UNITED STATES SOLDIER. > > > WAS THIS THE HERO > OF WHOM I'D JUST READ? > CURLED UP ON A PONCHO, > THE FLOOR FOR A BED? > > I REALIZED THE FAMILIES > THAT I SAW THIS NIGHT, > OWED THEIR LIVES TO THESE SOLDIERS > WHO WERE WILLING TO FIGHT. > > SOON ROUND THE WORLD, > THE CHILDREN WOULD PLAY, > AND GROWNUPS WOULD CELEBRATE > A BRIGHT CHRISTMAS DAY. > > THEY ALL ENJOYED FREEDOM > EACH MONTH OF THE YEAR, > BECAUSE OF THE SOLDIERS, > LIKE THE ONE LYING HERE > > I COULDN'T HELP WONDER > HOW MANY LAY ALONE, > ON A COLD CHRISTMAS EVE > IN A LAND FAR FROM HOME. > > THE VERY THOUGHT > BROUGHT A TEAR TO MY EYE, > I DROPPED TO MY KNEES > AND STARTED TO CRY. > > THE SOLDIER AWAKENED > AND I HEARD A ROUGH VOICE, > "SANTA DON'T CRY, > THIS LIFE IS MY CHOICE; > > I FIGHT FOR FREEDOM, > I DON'T ASK FOR MORE, > MY LIFE IS MY GOD, > MY COUNTRY, MY CORPS." > > THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER > AND DRIFTED TO SLEEP, > I COULDN'T CONTROL IT, > I CONTINUED TO WEEP. > > I KEPT WATCH FOR HOURS, > SO SILENT AND STILL > AND WE BOTH SHIVERED > FROM THE COLD NIGHT'S CHILL. > > I DIDN'T WANT TO LEAVE > ON THAT COLD, DARK, NIGHT, > THIS GUARDIAN OF HONOR > SO WILLING TO FIGHT. > > THEN THE SOLDIER ROLLED OVER, > WITH A VOICE SOFT AND PURE, > WHISPERED, "CARRY ON SANTA, > IT'S CHRISTMAS DAY, ALL IS SECURE." > > ONE LOOK AT MY WATCH, > AND I KNEW HE WAS RIGHT. > "MERRY CHRISTMAS MY FRIEND, > AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT." > > This poem was written by a Marine stationed in Okinawa Japan. > The following is his request. I think it is reasonable..... > > PLEASE. Would you do me the kind favor of sending this to as many > people as you can? > Christmas will be coming soon and some credit is due to our U.S. > Service men and women for our being able to celebrate these festivities. > > Let's try in this small way to pay a tiny bit of what we owe. Make people > stop and think of our heroes, living and dead, who sacrificed themselves > for us. > Please, do your small part to plant this small seed.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5806	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Soldier Claus

I do not feel that the recent posting belongs on s-list. 1. It has nothing to do with S gauge trains. 2. It represents an extremely simplistic political viewpoint that not all of us share. Do we want to start debating political issues on s-list? I don't think so. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5807	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Roseville, CA show

Hi. Is anyone on the list planning to attend the toy train show in Roseville, CA this coming week-end? If so, I'd like to share a ride. (and expenses, of course). Please e-mail me off-list. Thanks! Paul Schneider San Francisco

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5808	From: Alex Binkley	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Fw: Food For Thought : SANTA AND THE SOLDIER

I concur with Tom Jarcho's observations about the suitability of this poem to the S-scale list. While Americans are certainly the greatest in number, many countries have soldiers overseas on various peacekeeping missions from East Timor to Bosnia and many places in between. So we should speak the praises of many nationalities but in another forum. However the author of the poem has a nice touch, I will admit. cheers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5809	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Soldier Claus

I think you may have just started the political debate! There have many petty arguments on the S-Trains site that have turned into pi--ing contest and served no real purpose. I too think that the site should be for S related subjects only, but occasionaly an unrelated item show up, I tend to ignore them. I did enjoy the poem and think that it is right on the money for the subject is was about. As for my political standing all I can say is "Semper Fi". Tom Davis, Plt. 255, Parris Island,SC, USMCRD, 1959

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5810	From: Andy McBride	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Fw: Food For Thought : SANTA AND THE SOLDIER

One last thought about the SANTA AND THE SOLDIER email. I would suggest that the S-trains list is not a appropriate place for any of the infamous "chain-mails" that seem to thrive in email. I'll bet much like the girl with cancer email or the sick boy who wants to go to Disney world email not to mention the virus scare mail of the month that the story is false. Sorry Bill but you've been the victim of somebodys strange idea of a joke. Andy McBride

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5811	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: 1968 AF Set

cofa@... wrote: << including uncatalogued sets from > 1946 through 1968 (yes, 2 years after their last > catalog!!). | How can this be? I thought Gilbert stopped |production | In 1966 and sold out to General Mills In 1967. | These must have been left over Gilbert items that |General | Mills sold off. They could not have been sold by |Gilbert | directly to suppliers. According to Bob Tufts in his book "The 'Almost' Complete Guide to American Flyer S Gauge Sets", In 1968, the A.C. Gilbert Company produced their last uncatalogued set. It was "Accessory Pack" set number 121811 which included a 21085 Pacific and four common cars. This set was packaged once again in a Gilbert factory box and was shipped to distributors around the country. Of course, this still could have come from Lyin'L which was acting ...as sales agent for the A.C. Gilbert Company, which was still under control by Walter E. Heller & Company. Lionel offered the remaining American Flyer sets, engines, rolling stock, and accessories at phenomenal discounts [at least in 1967]. For example, the Domino Sugar hopper was offered for sale (new) for only 60 cents. Car assortments of as many as 12 cars were also available for only $15. Can you imagine? If only I had bought some of that really cheap Pikemaster stuff that I saw in Indiana in 1969 or 1970. However, it was my first exposure to it having been away from trains for about 5 years, and I was revulsed by the lack of quality. At that time, however, I did not even realize that A.C. Gilbert had gone out of business. Joe P.S. For those who recently ordered the books, they are now in the mail. sorry, but I temporarily ran out. ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5812	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: 770 man

Thanks to all who helped with the problem of the 770 loader man who was getting his arm stuck in front of the next milk can. Moving the man back, or to his left, in his crimped base, plus bending his base upwards slightly to make the man lean to his left, and also bending the man slightly to get just a slight bit more leftwards reach, did the trick. Bending the man was possible due to the use of a sturdy metal repro obtained from Doug Peck. By the way, when this unit is connected to a 30B transformer the cans shoot into the car so hard that it almost knocks the car over. It's almost as subtle as the log lift on a 751 log loader, which Dave Baker once compared to the electric chair at Sing Sing. =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5813	From: kathy/tom Gerbasi	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: destination for your S Helper Covered Hoppers

There is a great new HO kit that is easy to "bash" into an S building that is a good destination for your S Helper Covered Hoppers. It is a three part kit for "Hoffa Cement". The Sand bins and the "tanks" to distribute the cement to trucks seem usable as is with no modification except to weather them up with light washes of rust, grimy black and concrete. The Main building need to have the contents of the tanks painted a concrete color, and needs either a foundation of either balsa or plastruct to raised it a little, or if you are lazy like me, you can get by just enlarging the side doors (the main door is okay, just a little short but not noticeable). This is an industrial building, so you can get by with just making a plain door out of thin sheet styrene and framing it with a little bit of styrene strip, then painting and gluing them over the inset openings for the side door. The kits are available built up or in kits, and in my neck of the woods, the kits are only $2.00 cheaper than the built up units, and come with a grain of wheat bulb installed (which run for about $1.25 here). Using the built up unit, I modified, painted, weathered and installed the unit on my layout in less than 2 hours, including landscaping. Now I guess I'll have to buy a few more covered hoppers for dedicated cement service, and, being "Hoffa Cement", I can justify a few more Racing Champion Police cars. Tom Gerbasi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5814	From: JOPKE, WALTER	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: International Sales on eBay

Another voice in the fray. I, also, am a "small-time" user of eBay, both as a seller and as a buyer. As a seller, I've yet to refuse to honor an auction won by someone outside of the US. For me, these have been very pleasurable transactions. It is even fun to add to the list of countries to which you have shipped (my list at the present time is Canada, England, France, Belgium, Singapore, Thailand and Australia). I do not agree with other sellers who have commented on this list about the extra work. There is very little extra work involved, at least, from the standpoint from someone who lives in a metro area. I take all of my auction shipments to either UPS or my friendly neighborhood post office, typically on the way to work, regardless of whether they are international or stateside. So the little bit of extra work to fill out a customs form on site is really not much of an "adder" time or difficulty wise compared with a strictly US auction. There really isn't any more work to be done, either, in terms of figuring out what the shipping fees are to be for an international auction. You do not need to make a separate trip to the shipper just for the figuring out of these fees. Both UPS and the USPS have web pages (http://www.ups.com and http://www.usps.com) which you can use. You only need the destination, the dimensions of the package and the weight. You will then get the costs for various methods of shipping. If you would really like to talk with a "real person", the Postal Service has a toll free number which you can also use to get shipping fee quotes (1-800-275-8777). Now, really, all of the hastle and risk is with the international buyers of goods from US sellers on eBay. The usual "modus operandi" is that the seller does not ship until payment is made in US funds. So the international buyer has to arrange for US funds and then wait and hope that the seller is ethical and ships what was promised. I really can see no risk whatsoever for the seller, outside of an occasional bidder who does not come through with payment. And there are more "deadbeat bidders" in the US than outside! One eBay user's thoughts.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5815	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: questions

- Greeting`S' - Chris Burger is certainly making mor progress on his Baldwin Switcher than I am. Here are a few suggestions regarding the remotoring project. Don't worry about the mounting bracket for the motor to truck fastening. You will want a new motor drive pinion with fewer teeth but which will mesh with the truck gear. [Not too hard to find.] This allows the can motor to run faster which it will want to do. Cobble up a motor mount of aluminum angle with holes to bolt to the truck and holes for the motor mount and shaft pass-thru. You may want to elongate one motor mounting hole up-down so that mesh may be adjusted; then use toothed lock washers to lock the adjustment in place. About the electrical circuit, consider this diagram. |------| |--------------| ------------------|AC +|----------o o o | | | | \ / -|- | | | \ / / \ |__()()()()__ | | \ | motor | | reverser | | | / \ \ / | coil | | | / \ -|- | ------|AC -|----------o o o | | | |------| |--------------| | | O----O O----O bridge reverser front rear rectifier contacts truck truck <---------AC---------><---------------DC---------------> The bridge rectifier always delivers DC to the reverser contacts with positive voltage on top. From the reverser to the motor, whether the top is positive or negative depends on the state of the reverser. And this determines whether the motor runs forwards or backwards. I'll be pleased to comment on this further if this is of use to you. Just e-mail me with your questions. Cheer`S' Rhettthis determines whether the motor runs forwards or backwards. I'll be pleased to comment on this further if this is of use to you. Just e-mail me with your questions. Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5816	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Holy Cow

Do your cows actually walk up the ramp of your 771? I'm preparing mine for the layout and can't come close to achieving that feat. What do your cow's wear on their feet? What material is on your ramp? So far my loader's only good for unloading. My cow's have repro material that points them straight ahead instead of around the pen (soon to be replaced N/C by the dealer with properly "grained" fuzz), and the ramp needed to be re-surfaced. But even with these straight-ahead steers and 400 grit sandpaper on the ramp (attached only at the base to the otherwise original matting that covers the pens) there is no way this beef is going to make it to market. One cow enters the ramp area hits the base of the ramp and buzzes, but doesn't progress up the ramp (lowered of course). The next cow just piles in behind. Log jam. Steak jam. Whatever, you get the picture. I noticed that the brown and black repro material is much stiffer/bristly than the original wool velour. Have you found something else that works better? Thanks. PS This repro material has to be glued on. Some advertise self-stick.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5817	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: bubbler and beacon

FYI, for your Holiday Layout building. I got a Kline catalog in the mail yesterday (I used some of their 30" straights recently). They have a bubbling water tower, and a rotating beacon (rubber foot powered type) along with other accessories. The towers are $39.95 each. Hmmmmm. Love to use original ACGAF whenever possible but 772's (even w/o shack) and 769's (don't always work) or even old Lionel 494's (don't always get one with good rubber) are going more than that.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5818	From: Dan Brindell	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: A yard of cabeese

>Well, I checked the web, and while I found a few shops listing >Industrial Rail products, nobody has the cabooses (caboosi?) listed >yet...they may be just too new. As most railfans know, the plural of caboose is cabeese. ;-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5819	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Holy Cow

Have you tried adjusting the vibrator. My cattle loader has a small wrench that fits a hex head screw under the lift off roof, as I recall, that lets you adjust the amplitude of the vibrator. Don't expect miracles- the catalog said "sometimes these ornery critters need a little prod" (paraphrase from memory). However, mine do attempt and usually make it up the ramp. I also am using repro material. Mine is some silvery white looking stuff and about 20 years old. It is rumored to be the same stuff used on paint pads for doing room corners. David_Horn@... wrote: > > Do your cows actually walk up the ramp of your 771? I'm preparing mine for > the layout and can't come close to achieving that feat. What do your cow's > wear on their feet? What material is on your ramp? So far my loader's only > good for unloading. > > My cow's have repro material that points them straight ahead instead of > around the pen (soon to be replaced N/C by the dealer with properly > "grained" fuzz), and the ramp needed to be re-surfaced. But even with these > straight-ahead steers and 400 grit sandpaper on the ramp (attached only at > the base to the otherwise original matting that covers the pens) there is no > way this beef is going to make it to market. One cow enters the ramp area > hits the base of the ramp and buzzes, but doesn't progress up the ramp > (lowered of course). The next cow just piles in behind. Log jam. Steak > jam. Whatever, you get the picture. > > I noticed that the brown and black repro material is much stiffer/bristly > than the original wool velour. Have you found something else that works > better? Thanks. > > PS This repro material has to be glued on. Some advertise self-stick. > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5820	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Holy Cow

--- David_Horn@... wrote: > Do your cows actually walk up the ramp of your 771? I'm preparing mine for the layout and can't come close to achieving that feat. What do your cow's wear on their feet? What material is on your ramp? My cows go up the ramp fine. They are all repro cows with soft wool feet that are probably much like the original. The material on my ramp is the original cardboard mat. The problem I've had is that some of my brown cows go straight ahead or they veer in the black cow direction. I've got the same problem with my animated station people. I've tried various parts dealers but all the pads I've gotten so far are the stiff, too-tall, white, paint-pads that are probably what you have. If anybody carries the soft wool cow pads please let me know. I've been snooping around fabric stores looking for a short directional nap wool or velvet that could be used, with no success so far. =====

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5821	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Soldier Claus

Guys, Today is the corps' birthday. << As for my political standing all I can say is "Semper If". >>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5822	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Santa /Soldiier

To the List I'm sorry I offended some of you guys. A very good friend sent me this since veterans day is Thursday and he new I've been in this soldiers place in Vet- Nam. I didn't mean it to be political or offend anyone. I just thought you might enjoy it, knowing that some of you are of this age group. I can see I was wrong. Bill Sandrus

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5823	From: Velapoldi's	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: International

As a recently turned international buyer (in a move from the US to Norway), I have to say that Walter Jopke had it right on! Tx Walter for helping us "foreigners" - we have enough problems with taxes, customs, not to mention lack of s-gauge, etc. and to be cut out of the e-bay process simply because we are international buyers is somewhat scary and frustrating. I also must admit that I sometimes don't read the "fine print" too closely (or think about them too much) and have missed the admonition of "shipping to USA only". Well, tx again Walter. Rance Velapoldi

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5824	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Hoffa Cement

Tom Gerbasi wrote: >There is a great new HO kit that is easy to "bash" into an S building that is a good destination for >your S Helper Covered Hoppers. It is a three part kit for "Hoffa Cement". >I guess I'll have to buy a few more covered hoppers for dedicated cement service, and, being >"Hoffa Cement", I can justify a few more Racing Champion Police cars. Better than that, Tom, you can now justify building a football stadium with a special addition under one end zone. Invite your friends over to help you rewire under the layout and watch their faces light up as they find Jimmy! When people muse on where Jimmy Hoffa went, I usually say "Portland." Two to go, Chris Zizzo Back on-line following the great computer disaster. Hi, everybody!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5825	From: RBubeck327@aol.com	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Holy Cow

In a message dated 11/10/99 5:52:31 PM, imsscott@... writes: << I've been snooping around fabric stores looking for a short directional nap wool or velvet that could be used, with no success so far. >> The original material is mohair, if you can find it. I have had very good success with repro 'feet' made from white paint pads which were cut at the appropriate 25 deg. angle to the nap texture. I'm pretty sure Port Lines have 'feet' that work. Doug? RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5826	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Re: Holy Cow

Mohair, Huh? Hmm, LeBaron Bonney company sells it by the yard, both the real stuff and "artificial" Now that I've let everyone in on that secret, I've lost my "get rich quick scheme" I'm assuming that you need to cut it on the bias to achieve the "left" and "rigth" effects. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5827	From: Richard	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: Hoffa cement

Ok OK did I miss it???...who makes it?? >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5828	From: Jarcho	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: holy cow

How did you end up with #400 paper on the stockyard ramp? I have never had to replace stockyard mat. If I did, I would try emory cloth, not #400 paper. Could this be the problem? Anyone have experience replacing the mat? What is best to use? Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5829	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: A.F. Accessories

Thanks to everyone who replied with great ideas on fixing my Seaboard Coaler, Electromagnetic Crane & Saw Mill. I think they will all prove to be beneficial. Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5830	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 11/10/1999
Subject: copy and delete

Tom Jarcho wrote: I do not feel that the recent posting belongs on s-list. 1. It has nothing to do with S gauge trains. 2. It represents an extremely simplistic political viewpoint that not all of us share. Do we want to start debating political issues on s-list? I don't think so. To which Paul Schneider replies: Hell, I'd be happy if the folks on this list would at *least* delete the rest of the post they're responding to. C'mon, people, give the digest readers a break. I mean, how hard is it to copy and delete?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5831	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: converting PRS cars to hi-rail

Hi gang. How realistic is it to convert Pacific Rail Shop kits for hi-rail operation? Or are these beautiful cars for scale layouts only (mine have scale wheels, no couplers)? Paul Schneider, owner of a cool PRS 50 foot Green Bay & Western scale boxcar kit (put out by the Badgerland S-Gaugers, I believe).

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5832	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Ace/Downs trucks

Anyone out there interested in buying fo 5 pair of Ace/Downs, hi-rail wheel sets, sprung, trucks, 4 pair with AF type couplers and six pair of Ace/Downs, scale, code 110 wheel sets, 4 pair of the scale trucks are of the older style, not Bettendorf or Roller Bearing and are unsprung, good for older style cars or work train cars. Also some Ace hi-rail stlye wheel sets on AM needle point axels. Sold as a lot, contact me off the S-site. Tom Davis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5833	From: Ron Sebastian	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: converting PRS cars to hi-rail

Paul: In our little corner of the world I suspect most Pacific Rail Shops kits end up on hirail layouts. We freely swap trucks and add couplers at a modest cost and most customers seem to take us up on the offer. There are some S Scalers who wish to do a little modeling occasionally and PRS does offer some nice cars. Ron Sebastian Des Plaines Hobbies Paul D. Schneider wrote: > Hi gang. > > How realistic is it to convert Pacific Rail Shop kits > for hi-rail operation?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5834	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Mystic Talking Station

Anyone think they could help me find a reproducer (speaker) for my talking station?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5835	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Mystic Talking Station

If you are not looking for OEM....try Radio Shack...they sell very small speakers called "sport"...they fit well inside....I beleive Doug Peck carrys them also...Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5836	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: converting PRS cars to hi-rail

Funny you should ask. I just built a PRS steel reefer as a hirail car and it's a beauty. I used SHS hirail trucks with SHS Flyer compatible couplers because I bought the kit from SHS at York in October. An alternative is to swap to hirail wheels and add SHS or AM couplers which are available separately. If swapping wheels keep the truck springs constrained. "Paul D. Schneider" wrote: > > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > > Hi gang. > > How realistic is it to convert Pacific Rail Shop kits > for hi-rail operation? Or are these beautiful cars > for scale layouts only (mine have scale wheels, no > couplers)? > > Paul Schneider, owner of a cool PRS 50 foot Green Bay > & Western scale boxcar kit (put out by the Badgerland > S-Gaugers, I believe). > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5837	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 430

David, I had a stockyard accessory that my dad gave me back in the fifties that had a problem. This one, of course, came from AC Gilbert through one of his local dealers at the time. The black cows went up the ramp with no problem, but not the brown cows. I have no idea what the problem with the brown cows might have been. After several attempts to ave the thing repaired, I finally gave up. I have the stockyard yet, but it has not been used since perhaps 1955/56. My brown cows would wander around the stall ok. But when they got to the bottom of the ramp, the first one would stop at the bottom and I, too, would have a "steak jam." (P:ardon me, but that sounds rather unappetizing.) The attempted repairs included putting new stuff on the brown cows' feet and new stall/ramp material. Possibly the brown cows were unable to overcome gravity. In that case they were probably too tough to make good steak anyway. W. Thomas Boussum David Horn wrote: > My cow's have repro material that points them straight ahead instead of > around the pen (soon to be replaced N/C by the dealer with properly > "grained" fuzz), and the ramp needed to be re-surfaced. But even with these > straight-ahead steers and 400 grit sandpaper on the ramp (attached only at > the base to the otherwise original matting that covers the pens) there is no > way this beef is going to make it to market. One cow enters the ramp area > hits the base of the ramp and buzzes, but doesn't progress up the ramp > (lowered of course). The next cow just piles in behind. Log jam. Steak > jam. Whatever, you get the picture.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5838	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Feet fiber

In a message dated 11/11/99 5:16:10 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<I noticed that the brown and black repro material is much stiffer/bristly than the original wool velour. Have you found something else that works better? Thanks. PS This repro material has to be glued on. Some advertise self-stick. >> I think there are at least 4 or 5 different "brands" of replacement fiber out there. I currently stock two of them. Both seem to work OK, but I tend to prefer one over the other. The angling of the fibers is critical for circling the pen. Don't completely trim the replacement pad until you have tested the cow and feel it is circling OK (trim the outside edge only, and test). Then if it doesn't seem right, you can remove it and alter the angle a bit. Superglue works fine for attaching fiber, BUT you can't change it once it's on. That's why I supply two-sided tape with the fiber I sell. As for the ramp, this is a problem with fibers that are too long. They'll walk the pen, but not the ramp. Fibers need to be shorter. Anyone found a trick for shaving fiber feet material that is too long???? Maybe an electric beard-trimmer???? Haven't tried it, but I might. The fiber length is the most significant difference in the different fabrics sold by different parts dealers. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5839	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Baldwins

For those of you with Baldwins that run poorly, overheat, etc, (which is MOST of us!), be aware that PHM will soon be releasing a complete Baldwin chassis and motor assembly to pop into a Baldwin shell. An instant solution for Baldwins! Not sure of the cost yet, but we have them on order and will publicize their availability as soon as we receive some. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5840	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Flyer DCC'ers

Are stock Flyer motors Isolated? If not, how does one go about getting them isolated, both stem and diesel? Lost in the wilderness John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5841	From: Dennis Back	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Cow Feet fiber Shaving

--- PortLines@... wrote: > Anyone found a > trick for shaving fiber feet material that is too > long???? Maybe an electric > beard-trimmer???? Maybe the battery op. sweater lint shavers would work for this...or maybe even an electric shaver. Just a thought. With my cattle, I have a couple of cows that will climb the ramp, but they take forever. I've got one cow that works great and I make sure that she is LAST to go up the ramp...she shoves the slow ones up and in the car in no time flat! Regards, Dennis Miami

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5842	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Mystic Talking Station reproducer

This is a phonograph item, holds the record needle, and the diaphragm that creates the speaker. As they are a loose piece, many have been lost. I know that reproductions (reproduced reproducer???) have been contemplated, but it's a complicated piece to make, was probably the most expensive part of the station, other than the motor. I have often wondered if any phonograph units could be adapted, but haven't looked into it (there must be an early phonograph parts supply like we have for our trains). Good luck, It took me a year to find mine! S' David D. PS Sorry, Jeff, no electronics involved in this piece!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5843	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Flyer DCC'ers

RE: motors isolated? John, Depends, the four-step reversed units are supposed to be, the later (five-diget) two-step reversed units aren't, although one could isolate them by removing the "ground" connection at the (right side?) brush holder and adding a return wire to the smoke unit, AND insulating the drawbar. (Gads, this gets complicated!). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5844	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Holy Cow

In a message dated 11/10/99 9:15:50 PM, djdewey@... writes: << I'm assuming that you need to cut it on the bias to achieve the "left" and "rigth" effects. >> Yup!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5845	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: eBay Humor

OK eBay watchers, take a look at this auction that has a $4000.00 opening bid, with the reserve not met! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=198260064 Just for fun...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5846	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Bum steer

Couldn't resist. Thanks for the input. The ramp on this loader had damaged base material. Emory paper is a good idea. Last night I tried 100 to 1500 grit sand paper, different voltages, altering freq and amplitude (closer or further from coi) and couldn't get one cow to walk the plank. I hope the replacement feet coming do the trick. But I can't help but think a softer, possibly more dense and short napth, material on the feet helps them move more and bounce less when trying to climb the ramp. I would like to know more about how, where, etc. to obtain some of that. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5847	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: what I want for Christmas

an S-guage 4-4-2 Hiawatha - - that'd be great! Fully streamlined, with smoke, choo-choo, pulmor, matching cars.....AC where are you when we need you most?.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5848	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Hiawatha

David: if you want a Hiawatha 4-4-2, I believe there is a conversion kit on the market for that loco. You start with a Flyer Atlantic. Perhaps someone on this list has tried one. I think that the manufacturer is Putt Trains. See their ads in S Gaugian. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5849	From: Dennis Back	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Site for Hiawatha Train/Shell

Click below for the Hiawatha Flyer: http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/info/mel.htm Mel Nielsen Box 50 Clifton Park , N.Y. 12065 (518) 383-0963 Hope this helps. Best, Dennis Miami

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5850	From: ClaimsBoss@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor

<< http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=198260064 >> What a gas! or should I say coal (OOOOOU is that BAD!) Guy doesn't know the difference between cast iron and white metal. How can you trust anything he says. As a collector he must be a legend in his own mind!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5851	From: MWelbornjr@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: help needed

I recently aquired a #20345 AF 1957 NH Electric freight set. This set is unused in the box with all cardboard and stuffing paper etc.. My problem is I can not figure out how to repack the box as it was from AF. I never have room for the 4 straight pieces or the original stuffing paper. It is driving me crazy! Could someone please help that is a set expert or direct me to a source. I need it to all go in the box for storage and protection. Thanks greatly!!! Michael Welborn.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5852	From: Tom Rolfsmeyer	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: SHS service with a smile.

Well guys I don't post to the list very often but the recent service I experienced from SHS deserves note. I had ordered a starter oval of their track with the intention of testing it out for suitability on the lay out I wish to build. It came in the usual manner UPS and every thing I ordered was there but one of the 15 inch straights was incorrectly assembled. I wrote a e-mail to Don and Robin asking how we could fix this and about 4 days later comes a new piece in the mail. Now I want you to know that this was at no charge to me and it cost Don extra to send that piece of 15 inch track. I consider this service above and beyond the call of duty. My thanks to Don and Robin at SHS for providing such wonderful rolling stock and such unbelievable service in this day and age when quite often you don't even get a response. Thanks Tom Rolfsmeyer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5853	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor

Not only does he not know iron/pot metal, I'm not sure what's there, you can tell the wiring harness to the engine is a repro with plastic insulation, and the drawbar isn't connected. Also note, "In storage for 10 years" Hmm so where has it been the previous 40 years (assuming 1949 production). Maybe he's just fishing for one of those "impulse buyers"? ;-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5854	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: U.M.D. "S" Gauge Caboose

By special arrangement with a U.M.D. distributor, I will be able to supply their new �S� gauge cabeese if there are sufficient orders. Normal retail price is $26.99. However, these will be available to members of this list for $27�including shipping and handling. If you would like a pair of S-Helper Service Barber S-2 70 ton roller bearing caboose trucks w/electrical pickup and pair of SHS caboose couplers, add $10.00. In other words, for $37 you can have an �S� gauge caboose. Available roadnames are #1501 Burlington Northern, #1502 Santa Fe, and #1503 Chessie System. All pre-orders must be received by November 29th. Refunds will be issued if there are insufficient orders to make this deal work at this price. To place an order, call 919/471-2613 and leave your name, address, telephone number, car preference, and Master Card or Visa number, or send a fax by calling 919/471-2613 and pressing *9 when you hear the recorded message. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5855	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Re: Bum steer

>From the sounds of the posts on bum steers it sounds like sandpaper or emery might not be the right thing. My original loader works and uses a kind of paper that doesn't feel abrasive. Could that be the problem? David_Horn@... wrote: > > Couldn't resist. Thanks for the input. The ramp on this loader had damaged > base material. Emory paper is a good idea. Last night I tried 100 to 1500 > grit sand paper, different voltages, altering freq and amplitude (closer or > further from coi) and couldn't get one cow to walk the plank. I hope the > replacement feet coming do the trick. But I can't help but think a softer, > possibly more dense and short napth, material on the feet helps them move > more and bounce less when trying to climb the ramp. I would like to know > more about how, where, etc. to obtain some of that. Thanks. > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5856	From: Richard	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Back-hoe..dirt cheap!!

My disappointment recently with a 50 ton mobile crane just proving tooo hard to redo as "S" has be alleviated by a find at the local "Reject Shop" ..nickel and dime!! They are a typical cat-tread backhoe!! These are listed at 1:55 but look pretty damn good as S scale....after all there are different sized plant...ssome carries off the scale change..some doesnt...THIS DOES !! Very expensive!!!!! Two Dollars...two bucks ...thats Australian or US$1:30 Those wanting a look go to the shared files area..or ask me direct...any takers..we can work out something!! Some hydaulics and good weathering...real gem...cut the windows out...but this actually loks like PLANT not some crappy placky toy. cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5857	From: Richard	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: Back Hoe addendum

Having learn from past lessons I will go and buy out the shop tomorrow...so either I have a really ggood plant equipment sales lot on my layout some day...or if someone wants some at least idont come up empty handed...been there done that, read the book and seen the film!! You can look like a prized Turkey sometimes....even more than usual!!! The card they com on indicates a front end loader as well...but didnt see it...there was a roller but ways too big!! Have you guys notied a trend lately on a lot of "COnstruction" toys that the scale (supposed ) is actually listed....dont have to sneakily open the box and look at the bottom for a scale if any....NOT THAT I DID..( MUCH!!).. Now Ihave heard of the scale card...some one should do a truck card...has outlines of typical trucks etc in icreasing sizes ..all 1:64 of course..plasticoated..gee wouldnt that be handy!! cheers >:~)) Richard cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5858	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: more questions

is there anyway to use the flyer track trips on gargraves track? Has anyone trued this at all. Want to use the rr crossing and danger bell on the Christmas layout. If this isn't feasable, is there any way to use these with some kind of electronic circuitry? I have 2 loops of track to use the electronic way if possible. If there is ,please keep it as simple as possible. Thanks, Stupid, I mean ,Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5859	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: converting PRS cars to hi-rail

> Message: 1 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 03:11:45 -0800 (PST) > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@... > Hi gang. > How realistic is it to convert Pacific Rail Shop kits > for hi-rail operation? Or are these beautiful cars > for scale layouts only (mine have scale wheels, nocouplers)? > Paul Schneider, owner of a cool PRS 50 foot Green Bay > & Western scale boxcar kit (put out by the BadgerlandS-Gaugers, I believe). Hello Paul, I've had good luck converting PRS cars to Hi-Rail, although I've only been converting the 40' cars. I've been using a combination of the PRS trucks with SHS wheels or the SHS trucks with the SHS coupler. The portion of the underfame that extends past the bolster has to be removed and a small portion of the angled part of the coupler shank also needs to be removed for clearance. Also, check to see if the flanges scrap any of the underbody detail. Any interfering detail may need to be trimmed or relocated. Of course, details on the car ends that hang below floor level will need to be removed. I also add 2 ounces of weight over the trucks before I close up the carbody. I use the A-Line self-adhesive weights, they come in 1/4 an 1/2 ounce increments. The cars will sit slightly higher than their scale counterparts, due to the thickness of the SHS coupler shaft, but I overlook this, it's not really that noticable. If this concerns you, I would suggest using Ace trucks and couplers. Their coupler is mounted on a thin metal shank and the truck is designed for mounting the coupler to it. Hope this helps. Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5860	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Seaboard Coaler

These were the ideas suggested on the list as to how to repair my 752 Seaboard Coaler. As a refresher, it clam shell would not consistently close. At first I thought it to be a poor connection within the switch, but realized it was getting power but was just not closing. I then realized it was binding up because it apparently was opening up too wide for the clam shell to then close properly. #1. I was told to look for any bent parts & straighten them up. #2. Check the 4 wire hangers on the shell to see if they were misaligned. #3. Try using graphite on the clam shaft to make it operate more smoothly. I am still working on the unit and experimenting with the above. It has gotten better, but still need to improve it somewhat. Again thanks for the suggestions. Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5861	From: Roger Petrella	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 431,ebay humor

I think you guys are missing something VERY obvious on this set. It has the rare no load, no button & no track rail 715 and the even more rare 740 handcar "pusher" engine. This has to be the first set like this I've seen complete. If this guy gets $4000 for this I guess I'll have to put all my "rare" Flyer pieces up on ebay. I'll be a multi-millionaire in no time. Then I can go out and buy out all the train show dealers, list these, repeat several times and maybe then I can buy out Bill Gates. Sorry, couldn't resist! Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5862	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: SHS service

Message: 22 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 19:39:39 -0700 From: Tom Rolfsmeyer <silvertom@...> Subject: SHS service with a smile. Well guys I don't post to the list very often but the recent service I experienced from SHS deserves note. I had ordered a starter oval of their track with the intention of testing it out for suitability on the lay out I wish to build. It came in the usual manner UPS and every thing I ordered was there but one of the 15 inch straights was incorrectly assembled. I wrote a e-mail to Don and Robin asking how we could fix this and about 4 days later comes a new piece in the mail. Now I want you to know that this was at no charge to me and it cost Don extra to send that piece of 15 inch track. I consider this service above and beyond the call of duty. My thanks to Don and Robin at SHS for providing such wonderful rolling stock and such unbelievable service in this day and age when quite often you don't even get a response. Thanks Tom Rolfsmeyer TOM, I HAD A SIMILAR EXPERIENCE. My diesel arrived but had a problem. I called Don and three days later i received a brand new, computer board at no cost to me or even shipping. TREMENDOUS SERVICE!!!!!! Thanks Don and Robin, Wayne Broadhead Salt Lake City, UTah

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5863	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor

Sorry Chuck but that isn't funny. That is my first train set, without the MKT, hopper car and work car. I now own all of those pieces but most of those items were either sold or given to me by my Uncle Bud & Aunt Eleanor, founders of Sattler's Trains and Hobbies. Of course my uncle devalued my original set by putting on those new fangled knucle couplers and trucks. Well if I didn't have that set today I would probably place a bid at that range for the nostalgia but I kept it and by 1959 I had about $50 invested. Yes chuck, "It ain't funny Mcgee". Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn From: Chuck Harrington <paketpet@...> Subject: eBay Humor OK eBay watchers, take a look at this auction that has a $4000.00 opening bid, with the reserve not met! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=198260064 Just for fun...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5864	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Reproducer; cow's feet

1. I have had good success using paint pads to replace the cow's "feet". Their was a Roundhouse column in S-gaugian that described this about 5-6 years ago. 2. My talking station reproducer is adapted from an old phonograph's. You have to find a phonograph with a mechanical reproducer or a replacement reproducer; these are often expensive. I then hot glued on the pins and the cardboard tube. Thankfully I was able to borrow an original AF reproducer as a model. -Roy Roy E. Plotnick Professor Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences University of Illinois at Chicago 845 W. Taylor St. Chicago, IL 60607 plotnick@... phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279 web page: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/plotnick.htm "The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May Alcott

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5865	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor

I emailed the guy and asked about the $4000 pricetag. He told me that a friend of his had told him that it was worth more than $5000. I replied that the guys on the list were getting a kick out of it and that I didn't recall ANY flyer going for over a grand. I could be wrong as I delete most of the flyer valuation questions, but I honestly do not recall a pricetag that high on any flyer. He said he'd be curious to see if he got it meanwhile he's probably wasted a listing fee. John Craft

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5866	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: more questions

It is easy to rig a crossing actuator on Gargraves because of the wooden ties. Use a strip of tin can stock about 1/4" x 2" as the actuator. Use a tiny wood screw to arrach one end to a tie next to the rail, leave the other end loose. Attach a wire to the screw, either under it or solder it. Under the free end put another tiny wood screw with a wire attached. Adjust the strip so a Flyer wheel flange makes the strip contact the screw head. I have used this successfully. You can also us a very low current relay or Flyer 697 track trip to detect a loco drawing current in an insulated block and use it to operate an electronic flasher, but I think the above is simpler and less expensive. Cbtrainnut@... wrote: > > From: Cbtrainnut@... > > is there anyway to use the flyer track trips on gargraves track? Has anyone > trued this at all. Want to use the rr crossing and danger bell on the > Christmas layout. If this isn't feasable, is there any way to use these with > some kind of electronic circuitry? I have 2 loops of track to use the > electronic way if possible. If there is ,please keep it as simple as > possible. Thanks, Stupid, I mean ,Chris Burger > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5867	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor

In a message dated 11/12/99 10:24:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, RRDART@... writes: << He told me that a friend of his had told him that it was worth more than $5000. I replied that the guys on the list were getting a kick out of it and that I didn't recall ANY flyer going for over a grand. >> Well, there was the LN/OB Track Gang that went for about $4k last April. :)) RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5868	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor

Wow, see I learned something there. I did forward one of the emails to that guy. He seemed genuinely surprised that it might not fetch 4k. Some of these guys though are lunatics. I have bid on the same C&O George Washington ashtray about 5 times now, never more than $81 and they keep a reserve on it of 100-150 and keep relisting it. Go figure. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5869	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Double Vision

To One List Administrator, For some reason I'm getting the list twice is there a reason for this? Am I being punished for my last comments? :-) Bill Sandrus Boise ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5870	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor

Hi John, I've heard of the Gilbert Missouri Pacific Passenger set in excellent condition going for $2500 and a mint set would go for more. Glenn RRDART@... wrote: > I emailed the guy and asked about the $4000 pricetag. He told me that a > friend of his had told him that it was worth more than $5000. I replied that > the guys on the list were getting a kick out of it and that I didn't recall > ANY flyer going for over a grand. I could be wrong as I delete most of the > flyer valuation questions, but I honestly do not recall a pricetag that high > on any flyer. He said he'd be curious to see if he got it meanwhile he's > probably wasted a listing fee. > John Craft

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5871	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor

Ok, Then being somewhat new to this, it is my guess that the real value of this train set is somewhere around $750.00. Am I close? Chuck

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5872	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Fw: [S-Scale] S Scale B&O Laser-cut Station Kit

Hmm, this wasn't sent to the S-trains list, guess he didn't think any of us would be interested, but I think it sounds interesting, so here 'tis. S David D. -----Original Message----- From: Alan C Udy <nsupbnsf@...> To: S-Scale@onelist.com <S-Scale@onelist.com> Date: Friday, November 12, 1999 6:34 AM Subject: [S-Scale] S Scale B&O Laser-cut Station Kit >From: Alan C Udy <nsupbnsf@...> > >The following is taken from the B&O Railroad Historical Society >newsletter "Several Short Blasts From the Head End." References to any >other scale have been ommitted. > >"Model Tech, Inc. is offering 2 laser-cut B&O station kits. One kit >represents a B&O Class C Standard Combination Station (20' x 60'). and >the second is a model of the Newton Falls, Ohio, combination station and >tower. This kit is offered in S scale. For more information phone Model >Tech at 1-800-264-9845 or write Model Tech, Inc., 7289 Westfield Road, >Medina, OH 44256." > >Heres a chance to build another manufacturer that is taking a chance on >uS. > >Alan Udy, Rocky Mountain Highrailers >Idaho Falls, Idaho > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5873	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: Seaboard Coaler

Mike, I might add, and this requires some "special tools", polish the plunger and the inside of the coil. By special tools, this will require a polishing buff for a Dremel tool (you don't need the tool, and electric drill will do the job, but you do need the polishing pieces), and some buffing compound, red rouge works fine, although I prefer the green stuff (1600 grit for stainless). The plunger is more easily polished on a buffing wheel on a buffer (gee, I use my bench grinder with the guards off for the buffer) but it can be done by hand with lots of elbow grease. The only reason I have this stuff around is from doing Antique auto restoration, and I will admit that years of use have provided me with lots of experience of what NOT to do, and how fast it can fling a part out of your hand and across the workroom! But I still make that mistake, sometimes! (Usually only when the part is very tiny or very rare) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5874	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor

Chuck, I think you're still high, but it could go for that on eBay. As I recall, looking at the photos, it has the 343 w/ reverse in the tender (the more desirable one from an operating view) but I noticed a split sidewall and something odd with the drawbar connection, and a new wire harness--so what's been done to the engine? I don't remember all the accessories included, but they will add to the value. I recently looked a '46 310 set (4605, I think) all there, in the original box(es too) but well worn, loose drive wheels and the usual warpage of the plastic, no rare variations. IMHO, this could go on eBay for $100 as-is (it won't run as it is). Figuring all my time to just get the engine repaired, I estimated it's current value at around $50--and with a repaired engine, I still think the eBay value would end up around $150---but I could be wrong, after all, the set box, such as it was, is still there, and the "Jan '47 packing slip, and the engine has the brass buttons... But I'm in this to have fun, not speculate, so she still has the set! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5875	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: converting PRS cars to hi-rail

Hello again, Paul Just though I'd clarify the car weights, re-reading it it looks a little ambiguous. > > I also add 2 ounces of weight over the trucks before > > I close up the > > carbody. I use the A-Line self-adhesive weights, > > they come in 1/4 > > an 1/2 ounce increments. This is a total of 2 ounces, or 1 ounce over each truck. I also place these weights away from the centerline of the car. Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5876	From: John Foley	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Northern Pacific AF set

Hi Folks I thought I'd pass this along, I was in Scranton today and stopped in at Scranton Hobby Shop. They just got in a 1956 Northern Pacific passenger set. It has the A-B-A PA's and five passenger cars. Track is with it also. This set is excellent +. If interested call 717 342-1963 Open mon.-fri 10 A.M.-8P.M. sat 10 A.M. to 5P.M. sun. noon-4:30P.M. John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5877	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: Reproducers

In a message dated 11/11/99 11:41:28 PM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<I have often wondered if any phonograph units could be adapted, but haven't looked into it (there must be an early phonograph parts supply like we have for our trains).>> I know of guys who have modified early gramophone units to work in a Talking Station..........but they are somewhat expensive to buy in the first place, and then require a considerable amunt of work to make them operate in a TS ! Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5878	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: Talking Stations

In a message dated 11/11/99 11:41:28 PM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<Anyone think they could help me find a reproducer (speaker) for my talking station? From: "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> Subject: Re: Mystic Talking Station If you are not looking for OEM....try Radio Shack...they sell very small speakers called "sport"...they fit well inside....I beleive Doug Peck carrys them also...Jeff >> Well....#1, a "reproducer" for the Talking Station requires more than just a speaker. Original reproducers are rarer than hen's teeth to locate! Can't help you. That's why we DO carry a solid-state replacement for the reproducer, for $60. NO modifications to your talking station are required. I've been through this explanation many times before, so I won't do it again here. Conact me off-line for more info. It sounds IDENTICAL to the original recording. As for "speakers", we now carry an improved product for replacing speakers in steam and diesel engines. Our previous product was not too satisfactory, as it had a limited "lifetime", and burned out. Our newest product seems to be totally satisfactory for replacement purposes. Again contact us off line for info. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5879	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: Hiawatha

In a message dated 11/11/99 11:41:28 PM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<an S-guage 4-4-2 Hiawatha - - that'd be great! Fully streamlined, with smoke, choo-choo, pulmor, matching cars>> Available from Mel Nielson at Ballston Loco (NY).......BUT my STRONG recommendation is that you buy his finished products.....;not kits. Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5880	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: Vibrating mats

There is no satisfactory replacement material that I am aware of for the various vibrating mats. One of my suppliers is a real FANATIC about realistic reproductions, and has MANY contacts in industry. He has NEVER been successful in matching that mat material, to this day. Although I carry a mat material from a different supplier, it is expensive, and in my mind not all that great......thick for one thing. I have often consdered trying emery paper myself, but have never tried it. From others' comments, it sounds like it doesn't work???? Frankly, the best source of replacement mat material is a junker stockyard with a decent mat! They're pretty common at shows! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5881	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5882	From: mhrreast@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Die-Cast

Racing Champs has had a nice mid-30's sedan in Hot Rod colors and wheels. I found it today in the Police series, in a nice gray, which at least looks like it coulda been prototypical. There is a WalMart only Hot Wheels '79 Ford PU that looks quite nice; $5. 'Twould go nicely with the ME '80 Bronco. Ted Larson Minnesota Heartland Railroad - Eastern Division RASG News http://www.frontiernet.net/~hgbutler/septweb.htm ________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail you don't need Web access to use -- Or get full, reliable Internet access from Juno Web! Download your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagh.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5883	From: bgaylord@mnic.net	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Reproducer

Thanks so much everyone about the reproducer question. I'm new to the list and very happy I found it. I went to a auction last night and saw a old phonograph player. I see that thats all it is. there were portables around like that for kids picnics ect. I believe would work fine. Also at this point I'm experimenting on making my own and so far.. maybe if it works I'll share it. If it doesnt I will not admit it. Also I was not aware that me and my 15 year old son was useing the heck out of a 4,ooo. dollar train. Should I stop? I'll use my franklin unless? Hmmm. maybe I'll play it safe and put on a junker 302. Thanks. P.S. I thought my reproducer question was so bad I was being punished with double listings. Now I feel better.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5884	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: More eBay humor

Sorry, I just couldn't resist sharing this eBay auction with you. It really struck me as funny, but maybe I have a warped sense of humor... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=199046743 Enjoy, Chuck

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5885	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: Re: More eBay humor

Chuck, No, these cars don't warp, so must not be your sense of humor!! <G> At least the price is reasonable, but you do have to wonder about the seller's logic processes (how's that for a PC phrase!!). Broken coupler, the obs car has major pitting on the cast end, these puppies have been *somewhere* unpleasant! It is amazing how nice you can make a beat-up aluminum car look with a lot of elbow grease, if they weren't so danged heavy! I wish someone would do them with a ribbed roof so we could have a really cool CZ set! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5886	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Stockyard mats

Mine came with an AWFUL grey thing, thought someone replaced it with the back of a yellow legal pad material, but the flyer thing is thinner. ANyone try just kids grey construction paper? Thats what it looked like and is (evidently) original. Mine works fine.. So I says just lay another paper over it to see how it works but dont think that will do, probably should be anchored adequately so the test would only work on a matless stockyard? Rotsa Ruck- L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5887	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Re: weighting carz

Save your old wheel weights! Or spend a pleasant afternoon scouring the ground at your local auto wrecking yard. Have used these for years and work fine, just cut em and Goop em into place- NOT centered but half at each end of the car over trux. L (I useta be poor but now am a rich scrap metal dealer...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5888	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Convert Pacific Rail Shop Kits to Hi-rail?

Paul D. Schneider asked "How realistic is it to convert Pacific Rail Shop kits for hi-rail operation? Or are these beautiful cars for scale layouts only (mine have scale wheels, no couplers)?" I run several Pacific Rail right amoung my AF. They could use a bit more weight though, especially if near the head end. Pacific rail does sell these kits in a hi-rail version, or replace the trucks and couplers with your favorite. S-Helpers are readily available, and drop right in under the same mounting screw with no flange interference. Alan Udy, RMHRS Idaho Falls, Idaho ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5889	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Talking Station Reproducer

Gentlemen, About a year ago I received e-mail inquiring if I would be interested in obtaining one or more reproducers for the talking station. This person was researching having them reproduced but wanted to see how many sales he could generate to determine if he should go through with the project. In my current search, I could not turn up the e-mail. I may have printed it and then deleted it. I'll search some more. The name that comes to my feeble mind is Joe Haenn. Joe, you're on list, so please let us know if it was you. Or maybe someone else on list received the same e-mails and has them accessibly filed. Well, happy hunting! Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5890	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Re: More eBay humor

My cousin bought a new Bachmann HO PRR K-4 engine shipped in a plastic form for protection. When he pulled it out of the plastic the bell and side rods broke. Bachmann fixed it free for $10 shipping. Well this Vista Dome went through more than that. Broken coupler, pitted roof and "never run"? If you could get it for $29.95 it could be used for a Railway Diesel Car (RDC) kitbash. Keep looking for the best deal Chuck. Glenn From: Chuck Harrington <paketpet@...> Subject: More eBay humor Sorry, I just couldn't resist sharing this eBay auction with you. It really struck me as funny, but maybe I have a warped sense of humor... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=199046743 Enjoy, Chuck

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5891	From: Dennis Back	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Re: Talking Station Reproducer

--- William H Trefts <wmhtreftsv@...> wrote: > Gentlemen, > About a year ago I received e-mail inquiring if I > would be interested in > obtaining one or more reproducers for the talking > station. I believe the email came from Mark Preman at: http://www.americanflyertrains.com/ He was going to try to have them reproduced. Haven't heard from him about it, though. You might want to contact him. Dennis Miami

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5892	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Streamlined aluminum coaches (or opportunity only knocks once)

I've been following David Dewey's remarks with reference to cleaning the aluminum streamlined coaches that AC Gilbert sent out with his diesel sets forty some years ago. It reminds me of a time when an older cousin of mine, who was employed in the extrusion department of Alcoa Aluminum's Cressona, PA plant, offered to give me reject extruded coach "logs." It seems that the Cressona plant was producing the things in 5 or 6 foot lengths, and a scratch anywhere was sufficient cause for rejection. At the time, however, I was involved in other things that had priority over model railroading (like discovering girls, cars, and other related issues) so I told Lenny that I really could not see using them. Thus I did not get these coaches. When you see a 342 in somewhat less than mint condition for 4,000 big ones on eBay I just think what an opportunity I missed when I turned down Lenny's offer. W. Thomas Boussum > It is amazing how nice you can make a beat-up aluminum car look with a > lot of elbow grease, if they weren't so danged heavy! I wish someone would > do them with a ribbed roof so we could have a really cool CZ set! > S' > David D. > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5893	From: Jeffrey Tangeman	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Industrail cabooses

I was just in my local train shop today and they just stocked the UMD cabooses and Yes, they do look/are S gauge. They're nice but... I also collect O/027 and I like UMD because of the quality and price. Why buy L or MTH ar 40.00 per when you can get a good UMD Santa Fe box car or Hopper for 22.00. OK, I'm cheap. Jeff Tangeman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5894	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Humor

I received the following message from the owner of the eBay auction and felt I should share it with everyone on the list. Chuck G Stein, garstein@... wrote: > Gentlemen, > I would like to thank you for trashing my ad on e-bay. First off, I am > not a collector and put the ad in there on a recommendation from a > friend with that kind of price. I am not sure of the value of that > particular train set. If I am way out with the price than "so be it", > but a simple e-mail could have set me straight instead of the "e-bay > humor" you have started. I will let the auction run it's course and will > be outta here. I hope this is an end to this! > > Gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5895	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/13/1999
Subject: Re: Streamlined aluminum coaches (or opportunity only knocks once)

This may well be another argument for offering windowless cars of decently correct prototype, that is, side corrugation patterns--that we, we cut our own windows to fit, especially if you have a David Randall book or similar info to follow, and you finally end up with the accurate passenger car model you have waited 30 years for. As varied as passenger cars were for their respective roads, I contend this may be a worthy consideration of how to meet the needs for them.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5896	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: transformers

Some help is needed with a research project. If you have a 50-watt Flyer transformer, what is the model number? Is the case metal or Bakelite? Was it approved by UL or CSA or both? Where was it made? I will be most grateful for any and all answers. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5897	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: E Bay humor

Methinks there is a lot of humor on ebay these days regarding high prices? 1.5 yrs ago one could get a bargain or pay a fair price. Once they started having ads on the radio their useage jumped and one is bidding against the world. One mans opinion. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5898	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: S-Trains Gift Registry

Hi guys, I have been thinking about a "Gift registry". (all free as usual) Here is how it would work. 1) I publish a list (On the S-Trains website) of participating vendors. As participating vendors you agree too accept wish lists from train folks (train-heads). 2) Love ones of train folks contact you and order gifts for their favorite 'train-heads'. You could have have several ideas (and price ranges) from each 'train head' and thus the 'love one' could have a price range. The love one might just opt for a gift certificate. If you think this is a good idea, please let me know ASAP. It is pretty late in the season but better late than never. If you are a vendor and would like to participate... Please let me know if you accept visa, handle gift certificates, and any other info that I may be forgetting at this moment. The gift registry page would be similar to the parts page .http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/parts/parts.htm -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5899	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Re: transformers

Joe, Wow, there's a major question. 50 watt jobs were made for a number of years in various configurations, including all options that you listed! #1-1/2 54-55, bakalite "D" shaped case painted lettering #1-1/2B '56 Same, with circuit breaker added, also some with raised lettering #3 46 Square black metal case #5 '46 Black oval metal case #5A '46 Same as #5, but for 25 Cycle AC (Who had that??) #5B '46 Black oval case, with nickle plated top plate & circuit breaker #22020 '57-'64 Same as the late #1-1/2B There may be others! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5900	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Whats going on in Frisco?

Hi Everybody: I'm going to San Francisco on Monday night for a week. Anybody live around there? Got a layout? Want some company? My wife is doing a convention and I will have days to kill. I will have a car, so if you are down in San Jose or up in Marin County, out in Oakland or points East, I can get to you. Let me know. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5901	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Telephone lines

Does anyone on the list have a suggestion on what to use to simulate telephone lines between the telephone poles? Then, what suggestions do you have for securing them to the poles? Still learning how to do scenery. Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5902	From: Dennis Back	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines

--- Mike Leahy wrote: >....suggestions on what to use to simulate > telephone lines between the telephone poles.... I used very thin black nylon fishing line. I suppose if you can't find fishing line that is thin enough, you could use heavy sewing thread. I use the Plasticville poles and lay the thread over the cross bars and dab the insulators with bit of white glue where the thread/line touches them. This hold the line in place. Have fun, Dennis Miami

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5903	From: Richard	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Re telephone line ( No ..not ELO)

Hi all This will hopefully prompt someone!! Some outfit came out with an elastic type stuff very fine, not fuzzy or furry that imparted no real stress on the attached telephone poles and even absorbed a degree of abuse...now if I could only remember who made...who does?? cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5904	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, November 14, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5905	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Reproducer Reproducer

Bill Trefts wrote: Date: Sat, 13 Nov 1999 08:38:05 -0600 From: William H Trefts <wmhtreftsv@...> Subject: Talking Station Reproducer Gentlemen, <About a year ago I received e-mail inquiring if I <would be interested in obtaining one or more <reproducers for the talking station. This person <was researching having them reproduced but wanted to <see how many sales he could generate to determine if <he should go through with the project. < <In my current search, I could not turn up the e- <mail. I may have printed it and then deleted it. <I'll search some more. The name that comes to <my feeble mind is Joe Haenn. Joe, you're on list, so <please let us know if it was you. Or maybe someone <else on list received the same e-mails and has them <accessibly filed. < <Well, happy hunting! < <Bill Trefts No, it was not me. It WAS someone in Florida, but I do not remember it being Mark Preman. Anyone else remember who it was? I placed an order for a half a dozen of them, if they were ever produced. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5906	From: Lewis Webb	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: American Flyer Reproduction Coal Loader

Hi, does anyone out there know of a reproducer of the coal loader and/or log loader. I found the web sight but didn't bookmark, and can't get back to it. This person was in the process of reproducing these products. If anyone knows, please advise. Lewis dcell@... Merry Christmas! Wishing you and yours a very merry holiday season filled with peace. The Smiths

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5907	From: sscale@xxxx.xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: Double slips & misc.

Sorry for the double post. I don't remember what list I saw this on. I recall that someone was looking for a double-slip switch. So was I. At my behest, Jeff Wilson of Hoquat Hobbies searched his inventory and found a small quantity. His email is Hoquat063@... For those too new to remember, the Hoquat mail order catalog used to be the prime reference for what was available in S scale. Although the business is no longer active, Jeff still has a large amount of stock. If you're looking for some oddball part that hasn't been made in a while, it's always worth checking with Jeff. Also, the elastic wire for telephone poles is marketed by Berkshire Junction. Coincidentally, it was listed on the same webpage as the pictures of the Industrial Rail caboose. Stan Stokrocki sscale@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5908	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/14/1999
Subject: help!orphan seeking family!

for the last 10 years or so, i have had a solid E 660. it's chromed, lettered PULLMAN and AMERICAN FLYER LINES. here's the problem-the lettering and the passengers are very dark blue, not black. i'd love to complete this set, but have never had a match with even one more coach. anyone have any input on this color lettering and silhouettes? better yet, anyone have a 661,-2,-3 for this 660?-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5909	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines

I have found it best not to string telephone lines, they get in the way and every tine you reach for something across the layout you will probably snag them. Over time they will collect dust, which makes the lines look terrible. Tom Davis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5910	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines

There's no reason not to have good looking telegraph/telephone lines on your layout. I use the crossbars sold by Lehigh Valley Models (I get 'em from Doug Peck). Then i go to the local sewing supplies store and ask for a spool of elastic thread. It's so-o-o elastic that you really don't have to measure! Once strung, it snaps into place---and looks really good. It's easy to tie off, and the miniscule knots dissappear under the "insulators." Best of all, if you snag it, it simply snaps back into shape. I haven't broken any lines yet! After stringing I paint it by going along with a small brush dipped in Floquil. I use one of the yellow-greenish colors (sorry, the label's obscured) and it looks like oxidized copper. The elastic thread absorbs the paint. That's all there is to it. -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine -----Original Message----- From: TPDavis7@... [mailto:TPDavis7@...] Sent: Monday, November 15, 1999 8:20 AM To: Ruth.Leahy@... Cc: S-Trains@onelist.com Subject: Re: [S-Trains] Telephone lines From: TPDavis7@... I have found it best not to string telephone lines, they get in the way and every tine you reach for something across the layout you will probably snag them. Over time they will collect dust, which makes the lines look terrible. Tom Davis Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5911	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: New Repro Coal Loader

Someone on this list made mention of someone who is making a repro coal loader and log loader. This is the first i have heard of this. Would anyone who has information about this, please tell US MORE!! This sounds very exciting. Wayne Broadhead Golden Spike American Flyer Club

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5912	From: JOHN EICHMANN	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Crescent Conversion

Hello, S friends. A fellow club member (lives several hundred miles from here and doesn't have e-mail) has a couple of questions I can't answer, so I volunteered to post his queries to you experts and send the results to him. Bruce has an AM Southern Crescent Pacific, the AC hi-rail version. Since he bought it, he's converted his Flyer layout to DCC, and is therefore unable to operate his Crescent. He'd like to run it on the layout with a Sound Traxx board installed in the tender. The questions: 1. Is it possible to convert the Crescent over to DCC and to install the Sound Traxx? If so, (here's the big question): 2. How do you wire the Sound Traxx? He'd probably remove the original AC electronic reverse and sound board from the tender to make room. If any of you have made this conversion or have experience installing Sound Traxx, Bruce would sure appreciate your advice. Thanks. YourS, John Eichmann, Coordinator Rocky Mountain Hi-Railers Boise, Idaho jeichmann@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5913	From: Bill Clark	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Crescent Conversion

Several Bristol Club members have installed SoundTraxx into AM Pacifics. It's not a problem. 1. Remove the soundboard/Electronic E-unit. 2. Install decoders in the tender, using the speaker that came with the tender. I recommend using a Radio Shack 1 amp 12 v reed relay to operate the smoke and headlight. I connect light and smoke together to give a visual indication of when the smoke unit on. This is a VERY good idea, as it is easy to get the smoke turned on or left on, and as no smoke comes out when it is not running, you will burn out the smoke unit without knowing why. 3. I use the plug that comes with the Pacific. Make the two outside pins the smoke and light circuit, the two inner the motor. This way reversing the plug doesn't hurt anything. You can leave the switch in the circuit or wire around it as you see fit. 4. Connect the motor leads from the plug directly to the motor, and the somke/light leads to the light and smoke unit in parallel. The Soundtraxx DSD150 is not a good choice, because the motor drive circuitry will heat up the AM motor. I use a Soundtraxx DSX for sound, then another decoder for motor drive. There is plenty of room in the tender for an extra decoder. Stall current is less than 2 amps, with a wheels-spinning current of .65 amps, so lots of decoders will work. I used a Lenz LE135 because I love the back EMF. By the way, the new low cost Soundtraxx decoder should not have the overheating the motor problem, as Soundtraxx changed the design of the motor drive circuit. So you could use one of those if the current draw is not too much. Bill At 08:47 AM 11/15/99 -0700, you wrote: >From: "JOHN EICHMANN" <JEICHMANN@...> > >Hello, S friends. A fellow club member (lives several hundred miles from here and doesn't have e-mail) has a couple of questions I can't answer, so I volunteered to post his queries to you experts and send the results to him. > >Bruce has an AM Southern Crescent Pacific, the AC hi-rail version. Since he bought it, he's converted his Flyer layout to DCC, and is therefore unable to operate his Crescent. He'd like to run it on the layout with a Sound Traxx board installed in the tender. > >The questions: >1. Is it possible to convert the Crescent over to DCC and to install the Sound Traxx? If so, (here's the big question): >2. How do you wire the Sound Traxx? He'd probably remove the original AC electronic reverse and sound board from the tender to make room. > >If any of you have made this conversion or have experience installing Sound Traxx, Bruce would sure appreciate your advice. Thanks. > > GRAB THE GATOR! FREE SOFTWARE DOES ALL THE TYPING FOR YOU! >Tired of filling out forms and remembering passwords? Gator fills in >forms and passwords with just one click! Comes with $50 in free coupons! > <a href=" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/gator4 ">Click Here</a> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5914	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: S-Trains Gift Registry

Paul Yorke wrote: > > Hi guys, I have been thinking about a "Gift registry". (all free as > usual) > Here is how it would work. > 1) I publish a list (On the S-Trains website) of participating vendors. > As participating vendors you agree too accept wish lists from train > folks (train-heads). > 2) Love ones of train folks contact you and order gifts for their > favorite 'train-heads'. > You could have have several ideas (and price ranges) from each 'train > head' and thus the 'love one' could have a price range. The love one > B.T.S. has been doing this for the last 20 years with both product and gift certificates. We even have a disguised shipping label in case the spouse gets to the mail first! Good idea. Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5915	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Fwd: 2000 S-ga crane

FYI... Gregg Mummert >From: TTOS TTOS <ttos@...> >Reply-To: ttos@... >To: gmummert@... >Subject: 2000 S-ga crane >Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 08:53:43 -0800 > >Dear Gregg: > >I am supposed to get exact wording on the S-ga car for me to relate to >people with questions, but for now I can tell you that it is an O-ga >body on AF trucks and AF flat. The prototype was at the Cal Stewart meet >this weekend and I heard all positive comments about it - even from the >doubters. Apparently, after a lot of searching and researching, it was >discovered that the S-ga molds for the crane no longer exist at Lionel. >We hope to have a picture of the S-ga crane to publish. It will be in >black and white I am sure, and probably go on the next Bulletin envelope >due to time constraints. > >Will try to keep you informed further. > >Carol, TTOS >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5916	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/11/1999
Subject: 771 like mine

see the ramp, looks just like mine, ergo time to resurface it with something else - - sandpaper, emery paper, peach fuzz, what else would you suggest? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=198619042

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5917	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: ramp mat

My ramp has enough original material for about 75% of its length. The cows don't climb the ramp any better when that's installed or the sandpaper. But I know what you mean about the original feeling more like construction paper - - hey, now there's another idea to try.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5918	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: glue and Hiawatha

I found ZapADab Goo II works well. It sets fast, bonds well, buy remains flexible allowing you to pull the feet off (good thing as the first set weren't cut correctly). Thanks for the Hiawatha link. Anyone ever buy from Mel? How'd it go?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5919	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/12/1999
Subject: fuzz for feet

Looks as though this message didn't make it to the list the first time I sent it Thursday. ....more appropriately known as piled-fabric or mohair. I sent the folks at LeBaron a note asking for some to try and that I'd let all of you know of my success. Hope they can oblige. Thanks David D for the tip. Sorry to lose you to O, but glad you still check in on us. http://www.lebaronbonney.com/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5920	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Killing evil rumor--I'm not going to O!!!!

Hi all, Somehow my posting a few days ago when I forwarded a message from a gentleman who had decided to switch to O because there was more stuff at lower prices has been misunderstood to mean that I'm switching!! NO WAY!!! Two-Rail RULES!!!! I am here to stay!!!! They'll have to pry the 307 outa my cold hands when I'm gone!! OK, that one's taken care of.....now to start a new, more interesting one!! Steam engine in S from MTH in 2000!! ;-) You guys & Gals are the greatest!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5921	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Mat material, untested idea

Hi all!! After all the posts about mat material, I've been thinking. What you need is a material that isn't smooth, one that has some "grab" to it, but not abrasive. The abrasive part is why I don't think any sanpaper or emery paper is right. So.... What if you take some construction paper, and soak it with fiberglass resin? It will be stiff, and should have some "texture" to it. I think the way this could be done iis to lay a piece on some wax paper, brush on the resin, then hang it using a clothes pin so any excesss drains off. A very big disclaimer!! I ain't done this yet, just been thinkin' 'bout it!! Ready for feeback! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5922	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: American Flyer Reproduction Coal Loader

In a message dated 11/15/99 5:33:10 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<does anyone out there know of a reproducer of the coal loader and/or log loader. I found the web sight but didn't bookmark, and can't get back to it. This person was in the process of reproducing these products.> If someone is already doing these, it's news to me !!!! Parts for them, yes....but not the entire accessory. However, it will NOT surprise me if a new coal-loader is on the market within the next year or so !........and not necessarily from Lionel. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5923	From: ROGER HINDS	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines

Dennis Back wrote: > >....suggestions on what to use to simulate > > telephone lines between the telephone poles.... There has been numerous articles on this years ago. Some would have tiny holes drilled in the crossarms. Then run a thin wire or string through them ploe to pole. At the last pole the line would run down through a hole in the table the line would be tied to a weight. If you bumped into the line at some point nothing would break. the wire would raise in the hole when the strain came off the hole the line would go back down with the weight. Some guys were able to find thin lengths of rubber like string. Any way for both ideas the pole and crossarms would have to be good and strong. Put the lines where you aren't likely to bump them. Roger PS: My hard drive went down.I am now using a 8.4 G drive. All files were lost. Thank goodness I had some backed up.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5924	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Ebay and Auctions

This is just in response to some posts about Ebay. First to let you know, I live in a very remote area. So it is difficult to find any S gauge stuff. Even in the larger cities they seem to like HO and Lionel, Yuk. So I agree Ebay has gotten very difficult to get good deals since the media has stuck there nose in. Since they wont let me auction off a kidney, I need to find a more affordable place. Recently there has been a new auction that has been online for a short period of time. I have been able to get what I would consider a good deal. The sight is www.chochoauction.com. I'm reluctent to share, but I do appreciate this group. It might not be anything good but it is new and you folks that are in a rural area and limited like myself for exposure, this could be a good avenue. Please dont bid against me. HaHaHa. Bob Wight

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5925	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Market Research-Narrow Tie, Rubber Roadbed

I received a telephone call from a member of the Baltimore Area American Flyer Club who said that there is a possibility of his having the AF rubber roadbed with the narrow ties reproduced in the 10" straight and the traditional AF curve( 19"R). He wanted to know if I had any idea of how it would be received in the market place. As I have not a clue, I thought that I would toss it out to the S-Trains list members. If you have any feedback on this you can contact Russell Weaver, 403 South Aurora St., Easton, Md. 21601, 410-770-5393. Who knows, maybe if encouraged, Russell will get this roadbed on the market! Thanks, Tom Davis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5926	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Market Research-Narrow Tie, Rubber Roadbed

I prefer the narrow tie stuff and most of it on my layout is narrow tie. However, the portion of my layout that uses rubber roadbed is essentially complete so I won't be buying much. Newer sections use ballasted AM track. TPDavis7@... wrote: > > From: TPDavis7@... > > I received a telephone call from a member of the Baltimore Area American > Flyer Club who said that there is a possibility of his having the AF rubber > roadbed with the narrow ties reproduced in the 10" straight and the > traditional AF curve( 19"R). He wanted to know if I had any idea of how it > would be received in the market place. As I have not a clue, I thought that > I would toss it out to the S-Trains list members. If you have any feedback > on this you can contact Russell Weaver, 403 South Aurora St., Easton, Md. > 21601, 410-770-5393. Who knows, maybe if encouraged, Russell will get this > roadbed on the market! Thanks, Tom Davis > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5927	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines

How about dark green nylon thread, maybe in a heavier gauge or so--nylon does not kink the way others do--I also used it to rig a crane a few decades ago.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5928	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Market Research-Narrow Tie, Rubber Roadbed

> From: TPDavis7@... > > I received a telephone call from a member of the Baltimore Area American > Flyer Club who said that there is a possibility of his having the AF rubber > roadbed with the narrow ties reproduced in the 10" straight and the > traditional AF curve( 19"R) Would be nice to have it for the K-line wide radius curved and their 36 inch straight, too.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5929	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: What Engine am I looking for? (Old West Steam)

All, I'm back on the list after an 8 month "vacation". (Did I miss anything? ;-)) I would really like to have an "old west" style steam engine like the American Standard 440 "Wanderer". MTH/RailKing is producing one in "O" designed after the Wanderer in the movie Wild Wild West. Was there ever such an engine produced by American Flyer? Anyone know where I can find one? I just want something in good shape that runs. Thanks, Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5930	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/15/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines

Hmm, RATS, and I was going to us them to actually send power around! "Just a sec, I've got to reach over here and adjust---BzzzzT!!--OW!" "Oooops......" S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5931	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines

Some where back in my memory I recall reading about a gent who actually used wires strung on telephone poles to route electrical power to the lights in the buildings on his layout. I think it was either a standard gauge layout or pre-war tinplate. Maybe I will check back into my collection of "TOY TRAINS" magazines and see If I can find the article. Tom Davis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5932	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Auction

Sorry about the bad address. After fourty... What was I doing.. Oh yea try www.choochooauctions.com yea thats should do ya. Bob Wight.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5933	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Gilbert reproductions.

Gentlemen, Someone is in search of the company that reproduces Gilbert accessories. The name is: Gilbert Reproductions. I think they are in Pennsylvania. It has been on the list before and could probably be located through the archives. Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5934	From: William H Trefts	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Replacement mat material for Stockyard

Gentlemen, In reading a recent posting about finding replacement material for the Stockyard, it was suggested soaking construction paper with fiberglass resin, hanging it and letting it drip dry. I'm not familiar with how "thick" the resin is, but maybe this might work better. As suggested, place the paper flat on waxed paper, then soak it with thin superglue, leave it flat to dry. The superglue will stiffen the paper, might even raise the "nap" a little. If the waxed paper doesn't come off, too bad. It will reinforce the paper. DISCLAIMER: I have not done this, may never need to, and only hope the results are successful! If someone tries it, let us know how it turns out. Bill Trefts ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5935	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Utility lines in 'S' Gauge

I suggest not trying to use thread or something else to make S scale utility lines. I did use thread on a previous layout and removed it because it looked much too heavy to represent utility lines in anything less than standard gauge. Some of the suggestions made for setting up utility lines and preventing damage from getting snagged in them as posted in the Digest were interesting. However, having the lines stretched tight (as with the suggestion of an under layout weight on one end) is more unrealistic than having no lines. Back in my college days when I was being trained in the "mathematical arts," we learned about the "hyperbolic trigonometric functions," one of which is the hyperbolic cosine. To keep things simple, the curve that cosh(x) traces is also known as the "catenary curve," and is the curve that a line of uniform weight distribution assumes under no load other than its weight. The actual curve traced by an utility line "on any given day" will be different based on temperature. The line sags a bit more in the summer than in the winter. Of course, an accumulation of ice in the winter will case it to sag even more, since the ice has an appreciable weight. Thus it is probably better to have no lines than to have them stretched tight between gthe poles and be too heavy in gauge. Now, if we could only train spiders to stretch lines between poles (possibly using flies as compensation) we might then wind up with something useable in S gauge. W. Thomas Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5936	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: OLD TIMER STUFF

Unfortunately Gilbert's Old Timer was the Franklin 21088 4-4-0. It was based on a narrow gauge engine and used a narrow gauge "O" body on S gauge running gear. It looks out of scale with S Gauge trains and some have kitbased the cars to "O" gauge trucks. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5937	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: Replacement mat material for Stockyard

Bill & and all "Gentlemen" huh?? Where?? <G> I had thought about super glue too, but wondered about the cost! That's a lot of little drops! I use another product in old car restoration called "Quick Poly" it is used to restore wood that is soft. It is like water when mixed, so would be great for this. Hmm, I will have to try some, if it works, I'll let you know (but won't reveal my source so I can get rich making mats!! (Humor son, I say, It's humor!!) Quick-poly is rather expensive for just "playing around" but it saves much time & materials in restoration work! I'm out of it right now, but a friend has some, so I'll have to co-ordinate this project! S' David D. PS who wants to test it after I make it? My loaders are too buried in storage!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5938	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Some transformer discussions from another list.

READ FRST! This is a forwarded posting, I did not make ANY of these statements, just thought we'd find it interesting. The originator's emails are included for your use! Enjoy! David D. POSTING #1: From: Lyle Leverich <lleverich@...> MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <000b01bf2f08$b82f1380$094660d1@default> Subject: [toytrains] Re: Phasing Transformers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't do it ! Never connect two transformers together. There is 110 Volts OR MORE on the pins of the plug if you unplug one transformer while the others are running. You should never tie both common and "hot" leads of two transformers together. Period. Use each for a different circuit (not block). Phase to be safe, and tape or tie the plugs into a common outlet strip. POSTING #2: From: "Chip Miller" <millerh@...> Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 09:24:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: [toytrains] Re: Phasing Transformers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lyle: What you say is good general guidance for VARIABLE output transformers. However, IC Controls, for example, recommends and provides connectors for tying in parallel the output from 2 Lionel PowerHouses (PH-1) for use with their TPC-3000. I use this arrangement and it works very well. Of course, the PH-1s are fixed voltage transformers with the same (non-adjustable) output. Anyhow, I interpreted Scott's question on phasing to mean that each 1033 was on its own isolated block and not connected to the output of another transformer. As you know, you always want transformers in-phase no matter how they are arranged; it eliminates the possibility of momentary additive voltage across rollers between blocks (and the resultant sparks). This sort of thing can also be detrimental to today's electronics. Chip

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5939	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: Telephone lines

In a message dated 11/16/99 7:00:49 AM, TPDavis7@... writes: << Some where back in my memory I recall reading about a gent who actually used wires strung on telephone poles to route electrical power to the lights in the buildings on his layout. I think it was either a standard gauge layout or prewar tinplate. ...... Tom Davis >> Ah, a non-S topic, unless one is thinking 'standard' gauge. :)) Of what I believe you are thinking are the prewar Lionel No. 85, 60, and 060 telegraph posts. The 85's and the 060's have extension arms on thier bases that permitted them to be attached to track ties (Std. and O, respectively) and permit the arrangement of posts to parallel a main line. These were sold individually or in boxed sets of six (Nos. 71, 071, and 86). They came equipped with glass insulators and could be strung with wire. Many illustrations of complete railroad sets (e.g., the No. 407 from 1929) in Lionel catalogues show the posts wired. This was an effective way to provide wiring for lights on floor layout. One could string these posts right from the transformer located in one's No. 435, 436 or 840 power stations. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5940	From: Donald Abrams	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: 2nd attempt

I tried to send this message about a week ago, but due to an ISP snafu it didn't go through. All, I met Bob Tufts Sunday at a Frederick, MD train show. I'm not a set collector, but I felt there was enough new information in it to add it to my toy train reference library. According to Mr. Tufts book ACG went out of business in 2/67 and sold it's assets without going into receivership. Gabriel bought Erector & chem. sets and other toys. Lionel bought AF name, dies & patents. Repair station & parts were bought by Vince Amato. Factory equipment was auctioned in 6/67. ACG was still under control of Walter E. Heller (since '63) with Lionel as their sales agent. So Lionel sold sets, engines, rolling stock and accessories. They put out an uncatalogued set #121811 in 1968 with a 21085 and four cars. This may also explain a bunch of 21085's recently being sold by Madison Hardware in Detroit. They were mint and unboxed and I bought one for about $90. They were the black driver version, M. St. P. & P. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5941	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: S-Gaugian

If you have not seen this month's S-Gaugian, you should take a look. With an S-Scale brass model on the cover and lots of S-Scale stuff inside, even you Scale oriented guys might injoy it. Here is the Feature Index , there is a total of 52 pages in the November/December issue. see http://trainweb.com/sgaugian/index.html for additional info. 26 THE D&RGW'S CLASS P-44 4-6-8 by Rusty Rustermier Inspired by the photos and information in Rio Grande Steam locomotives, Rusty set out to build an S scale model of the P-44. Here Rusty offers his techniques for building this graceful-looking locomotive. 2O LAKE SPECIAL'99 ATTRACTS MODELERS FOR FELLOW/SHIP AND FUN by Don Heimburger Don attended the convention and returned with a rundown of what happened and news of some exciting new products for S gaugers. 28 ST. PAUL NASG SHOW IN PHOTOS From brass S scale models to ready-to-run freight cars, new products were the highlight of the recent NASG convention. 24 LAKE WOBEGONE JUNCTION by Tom Lennon Tom and his partner Joe Herrick had no idea what they were getting themselves into when they agreed to build a layout for the 1999 National NMRA Convention's switching contest, but the result was a tremendous learning experience as well as great fun. 35 YOUNGSTOWN & SOUTHERN BUILDING DRAWINGS by Jan Nicholson With fading paint and lots of details, this smallish maintenance-of-way building would make an excellent structure for your S scale railroad. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5942	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: 2nd attempt

Dear Don, Thank you for setting us all straight on this late ACG history. One other item I still cannot verify is any licensing agreement AC Gilbert had with anyone. I had always thought that all of that stuff was public domain and they just made what they wanted. It is felt that Chessie was the first to ever even mention licensing in regards to toy or model trains. Don T. Donald Abrams wrote: > From: "Donald Abrams" <donald.abrams@...> > > I tried to send this message about a week ago, but due to an ISP snafu it > didn't go through. > > All, > I met Bob Tufts Sunday at a Frederick, MD train show. > I'm not a set collector, but I felt there was enough new information in it > to add it to my toy train reference library. > According to Mr. Tufts book ACG went out of business in 2/67 and sold it's > assets > without going into receivership. > Gabriel bought Erector & chem. sets and other toys. > Lionel bought AF name, dies & patents. > Repair station & parts were bought by Vince Amato. > Factory equipment was auctioned in 6/67. > ACG was still under control of Walter E. Heller (since '63) with Lionel as > their sales agent. > So Lionel sold sets, engines, rolling stock and accessories. > They put out an uncatalogued set #121811 in 1968 with a 21085 and four > cars. > This may also explain a bunch of 21085's recently being sold by Madison > Hardware in Detroit. > They were mint and unboxed and I bought one for about $90. > They were the black driver version, M. St. P. & P. > > Don > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5943	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: OLD TIMER STUFF

Thanks Glenn. Do you know what the #21165 & #21168 Casey Jones 4-4-0 looks like? I went searching on ebay and found at least two different non-S engines called "Casey Jones". One was similar to the Wanderer, and one looked more "40-50's" Modern. http://www.americanflyertrains.com/steam.html lists three "Casey Jones." Thanks, Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5944	From: Richard	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Action Set

Guys and Gals Found another cheap find at the local Safeway...Made by Realtoy, an Action Set..the Bob cat may be a little big asa true Bobcat...but substituting a cat track off another cheap toy might produce an intersting piece of equipment!! The Forklift..probably as is The Road Machine...maybe lift the roof-cover a liitle..or take it off completely!! cost....itll break the bank!! Aus $3:99 have a look in shared files...new folder called .."Richard's Finds" cheers >:~))

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5945	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: Ballston Locomotive Works

In a message dated 99-11-16 05:43:02 EST, you write: << Message: 10 Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:38:12 -0500 From: David_Horn@... Subject: glue and Hiawatha (snip) Thanks for the Hiawatha link. Anyone ever buy from Mel? How'd it go? >> ________________________________- I bought a Lehigh Valley camelback from Mel and am quite pleased with it. Had to wait a few weeks for delivery as he did not have the one I wanted in stock (He told this to me up front). I have met him and seen his products several times at shows and conventions. He makes a limited-run specialty product that fills a need in tinplate or semi-scale "S". I recommend him and his products. Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5946	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Re: OLD TIMER STUFF

The engine that Casey went to his death in was a ten wheeler. 4-6-0 Larry Michael Westphal wrote: > From: Michael Westphal <westphal@...> > > Thanks Glenn. > > Do you know what the #21165 & #21168 Casey Jones 4-4-0 looks like? > > I went searching on ebay and found at least two different non-S engines > called "Casey Jones". One was similar to the Wanderer, and one looked > more "40-50's" Modern. > > http://www.americanflyertrains.com/steam.html lists three "Casey Jones." > > Thanks, > Michael > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5947	From: bob walsh	Date: 11/16/1999
Subject: Bachmann On30 Freight for conversion to "S"

It looks like the long awaited for Bachmann On30 freight cars have finally arrived at some hobby shops. They should retail for around $25 or less. They should make perfect candidates for conversion to S gauge by changing the trucks. I plan on picking up some shortly and giving it a try. I have included a link below to the Bachmann website that has pictures of the new freight line and individual sale passenger cars. Robert. http://www.bachmann-trains.com/images/full.asp?pcode=27014 __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5948	From: George Leonard	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: 322 Brass Smoke tube

Hi All, Has anybody ever had to replace the brass smoke tube in a 322 boiler? I need to do this but would like to remove the one in there without doing any further damage to it. It looks as if it has a flange on it that is expanded after it is inserted into the smokestack hole. Is this correct? Mine is loose and swivels very easily. Others Ive seen are stuck in there pretty tightly. Anybody have any ideas on how to remove it? Thanks in advance, George Leonard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5949	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: cattle yard and feet

David D - - I'd be glad to try your mat material. Please send some and I'll let you and "the list" know how it goes. To be fair, however, I won't test it until I have cow's feet that work. Cow's feet - - the LeBaron company very promptly mailed me their standard sampler pack consisting of about twenty 1.5"x1.5" patches of different mohair material pasted to card stock. One or some of which might actually work. There's not much of any one type material to experiment with. The dealer who was going to send me a replacement set of "properly oriented" feet, has discovered his material enables cows to circle their pen, but not walk the ramp, so he'll send me a set only after he too finds something that actually works. Hopefully with his resources and connections we can finally set all those little heifers free, well, actually off to slaughter but don't tell them that.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5950	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: Just a thought to the list.

I enjoy this list very much....I have been on the list since June .....this question may have been asked in the past....is their a way of getting workers or better yet engineers from ACG plant to join the list and offer their thoughts and experiences....and again since I am new their may be people on the list that worked at the ACG plant....just a thought, have a good one from the Lehigh Valley. -- * Full Service MLS " BUYER & SELLER " Representation * Web site - http://www.LehighValleyRealty.com E-Mail - mailto:findit@... " Allow me to refer you anywhere across the U.S.A./ Caribbean TOP TEN RE/MAX LISTING ASSOCIATE IN THE LEHIGH VALLEY 1994-95 TOP FIVE RE/MAX LISTING ASSOCIATE IN THE LEHIGH VALLEY 1996 TOP FIVE RE/MAX SELLING AGENT TOTAL UNITS SOLD 1998 ALLENTOWN OFFICE Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA Broker/Appraiser RE/MAX real estate 3021 College Heights Blvd. Allentown, PA 18104-4883 Office: 610-770-9000 Toll Free: 1-800-360-9001 24 Hour Voice Mail: 610-706-4267 Fax: 610-398-9434 Residence: 610-398-4024 Serving - Lehigh & Northampton Counties - Allentown, Bethlehem,& Easton

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5951	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: Re: OLD TIMER STUFF

These are the late AF 4-4-0 locomotives. Kinda tinplate looking and not well scaled. Came with plastic drivers and noisy gears. Michael Westphal wrote: > > From: Michael Westphal <westphal@...> > > Thanks Glenn. > > Do you know what the #21165 & #21168 Casey Jones 4-4-0 looks like? > > I went searching on ebay and found at least two different non-S engines > called "Casey Jones". One was similar to the Wanderer, and one looked > more "40-50's" Modern. > > http://www.americanflyertrains.com/steam.html lists three "Casey Jones." > > Thanks, > Michael > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5952	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: Re: cattle yard and feet

Hi All, Well, I guess it's true, "If you Make it, They will Test it!" I now have, I believe, enough volunteers to test the mat material, now to just git rid of this flu so I can visit my friend with the materials--I an't gonna subject him to these germs, he's behind enough in his work! Now, do you want the material in Hot Purple, Hot Orange, .......<G> ;-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5953	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: AF Set Book and eBay

Dear List Members: I recently put one of Bob Tuft's "The Almost Complete Guide to American Flyer S Gauge Sets" on eBay auction. I started the bidding at $9.95. Believe it or not, the winning bid was $38--for a currently in print book selling for $14.95 retail! Therefore, I sent the following message to all of the bidders, including the winning bidder: |Dear eBay Bidders (including winning bidder): | |You were a bidder on my recently eBay auction of The |Almost Complete Guide to American Flyer S Gauge Sets |(Auction #199229660). The winning bid was $38.00 plus |$3.20 Priority shipping. However, the retail cost of |this book, which is currently in print, is only |$14.95. As a reputable American Flyer parts dealer, I |find that this winning bid is unconscionably high. |Instead of accepting this overinflated price, I will |honor a fixed price of $19.00 (including handling and |Priority shipping) for any bidder who wants to |purchase this book at this price at this time. | |This price will be honored until my current stock is |exhausted, and I will honor Visa and Master Card |orders at this price. I have already been in touch |with the author, and he indicates that his stock of |this first printing of the first edition is now |running low, so I cannot guarantee a first edition |copy at this price beyond my current supply. | |Joe This auction indicated to me just how out of line some of the prices on eBay have become. I knew when I entered the item on eBay that I might have to part with it below my cost. But I never expected that it would sell for over double retail value. In the future, I plan to offer this book as well as the American Flyer Repair Manual by K-Line as Dutch Auction items so as to reduce the potential for this kind of wild bidding. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5954	From: Neil Trump	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: Gargraves switches

I don't know if it's been mentioned in the past but I've just heard that Gargraves are going to make a 72" switch sometime next year. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5955	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: free beer

Well not exactly, but 25% off recent Flyer. Trainworld out of New York. Their site says 20% off all AF with orders of $100 or more, but their CTT ads says 25% off all AF. They'll honor the 25% off all AF regardless of order amount on all AF made prior to 1999. I bought a 48407 for $30. Limited to what's in stock. Didn't have the 49000 I wanted. Prices on other scales are pretty good too. Also, here's a link to Trainworld's site showing some Bachmann On30 sets. Would these work well with S trucks? http://www.trainworldny.com/bachmann/bachmann_narrow_gauge_sets.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5956	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/17/1999
Subject: Re: OLD TIMER STUFF

Is this the same as the Green General, or the apparently very rare Blue General. I remember Newt Brown back in early 1970s willing to give a right nut or whatever for a Blue General, but never heard if he ever got one. One of the cars is here on the shelf but you wouldn't recognize it--Will Estes took one of the combines and added a cupola,and other reworks for a branchline caboose freelance etc., and did a decent scale conversion for the time on it. It was written up in S Gauge Herald in early 1960s issue.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5957	From: Mark Preman	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Response to Gift Registry and Repro Reproducers

To follow-up on Paul's suggestion for men who are getting married to their trains(sounds like some wives I know)-only kidding. I do a lot of "surprise" gift giving this time of year. The husband prints my list and circles some ideal selections and the dear wifey orders for Christmas(or birthday, or anniversary, or.....) I also have very nice printed gift certificates so that hubby can do his own ordering. I take mastercard, visa, Discover, and occasionally cash. Have the "Little Woman" call me. Tell her it will be totally painless and......if she should pick something you already have, you can trade it in after the holidays for something different. Doesn't get any easier. Also, I was the one talking about repo reproducers over a year ago. The guy I found who could do it now is too busy on aerospace stuff-not the proper priorities in my book. Oh well! Mark B. Preman (Train wife friendly) http://www.americanflyertrains.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5958	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: GREEN GENERAL?

I have never heard of the Green Franklin or Blue Washington called Generals. They lack the proportions of a General and the paper decals don't enhance their appearance but they are green and blue. Glenn Message: 9 Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:34:09 -0600 From: ironhors@... Subject: Re: OLD TIMER STUFF Is this the same as the Green General, or the apparently very rare Blue General. I remember Newt Brown back in early 1970s willing to give a right nut or whatever for a Blue General, but never heard if he ever got one. One of the cars is here on the shelf but you wouldn't recognize it--Will Estes took one of the combines and added a cupola,and other reworks for a branchline caboose freelance etc., and did a decent scale conversion for the time on it. It was written up in S Gauge Herald in early 1960s issue.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5959	From: NYC17819@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Gilbert reproductions.

Gilbert Reproductions is run by Tom Seccia who also runs Triple S Supplies. He has a store on Route 30 at 228 Lancaster Ave, Malvern, PA 19355. His telephone number is 610-296-9428 and he's generally there between 11 AM and 7 PM during weekdays and Saturdays, but not always on Mondays. Several years ago there was a passenger car washing facility (designed by A C Gilbert but never put into production) that Tom may have had something to do with "reproducing." I don't know if any other accessories have been completed, but he was working on a Gabe, the Lamp Lighter. Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5960	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: wild prices

How 'bout American Cruiser Taxi sets selling for $25! Talk about arbitrage. I couldn't find any sets anywhere around here, so I bought a set for $8.50 plus shipping on eBay, but that still pained me for a toy that sells at the stores (wherever they are) for $6.99.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5961	From: Roy Plotnick	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: AF set book

First, kudos to Joe Haenn for his honesty and forthtrightness. Second, it is a terrific book and well worth the price. While I have your attention: I just bought a used All Aboard set. The big trees were in pieces; is there any particular way they should go back together? How many pieces/tree? Roy E. Plotnick Professor Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences University of Illinois at Chicago 845 W. Taylor St. Chicago, IL 60607 plotnick@... phone: 312-996-2111 fax: 312-413-2279 web page: http://www.uic.edu/depts/geos/plotnick.htm "The scientific celebrities, forgetting their molluscs and glacial periods, gossiped about art, while devoting themselves to oysters and ices with characteristic energy.." -Little Women, Louisa May Alcott

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5962	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian & Flyer coverage

Having seen posts regarding the mag on this list and now being a 'member' I received my Oct (first) issue bout 3 weeks ago. Somehow I thought it was to include AF and S tinplate????? Its even alluded to in the mag somewhere, in letters to the ed? however I find little 'cept the kitbashed 080, the AF contest prize winner photos, thats bout it!!!!! Oooops D Deweys fine article is there, the only meat regarding traditional AF S. When one reads Toy Trains or (sorry) O ga mag they are full of tinplate articles..... Did a body count of the Gaugian membership issue, seems like about 13,000? And only some 300 or so on this list?????? Hmmm again? Maybe the rest are just running trains? Ah, ain't musing fun! Inexpensive too. L. (Think I can become a clockmaker though)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5963	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian & Flyer coverage

In a message dated 11/18/99 1:53:39 PM, LARSPAINTR@... writes: << Somehow I thought it was to include AF and S tinplate????? >> Look for the Bob Tufts articles. They're fun. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5964	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: S-Gaugian & Flyer coverage

Your comments about the lack of--or weakness of--tinplate and AF coverage in S Gaugian are compelling. But there are two sides to every coin, as you know. Tis true, 'tis true. Coverage may be weak from time to time. What's more, the S Gaugian really has more house ads than most successful publications really ought to have. These ads serve the publisher, but you're paying for them in your subscription price. On the flip side of the coin, I would bet you that Don H. has a tough time getting good, well written articles that are supported with artwork, captions, etc. That's not an easy task. I speak as the editor of a magazine. I'd be willing to bet you that if he could grow the magazine, he'd be delighted. So, although there are times when I'm disappointed with an issue, there may be other times when a specific article addresses EXACTLY what I needed to know---and therefore is worth the subscription price, and perhaps more. Suggestion: if you're unhappy, (1) write an article or (2) purchase the magazine at the newsstand after perusing the table of contents to see if it meets your expectations. Regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5965	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: free beer

Thanks for a new AF site; I have bookmarked it! But, the prices seem real high. A Domino 49608 hopper for $125.00; that is about twice the original retail price. At 25% off, that would still make the car almost $94.00. Is the AF by LTI stuff starting to appreciate? Thanks, Chuck David_Horn@... wrote: > Well not exactly, but 25% off recent Flyer. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5966	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: AF Set Book and eBay

Joe, Your definately a nice guy. I knew when I saw your auction on eBay that the book was going for more than the retail price. I think it demonstates the shortage that exists in AF books. Many great books are "out of print", and book like Greenbergs AF S guage Vol 2 and Vol 3 recently went very high on eBay. One of them over $200 I believe... When I purchase AF books I am looking for the content inside; I am not trying to purchase still another collectable like many of the AF books have become. I was fortunate to purchase an autographed copy of Bob's book at York, and I can tell you that it full full of great information. I have wondered if it will one day disappear and also turn into a collector item... Chuck (The rainbow wire guy...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5967	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: Gilbert reproductions.

OK, here is another cross-over example--is this the same 3-S that was stocking Scale supplies some time ago? Is that side still active, or what. NYC17819@... wrote: > From: NYC17819@... > > Gilbert Reproductions is run by Tom Seccia who also runs Triple S Supplies. > He has a store on Route 30 at 228 Lancaster Ave, Malvern, PA 19355. His > telephone number is 610-296-9428 and he's generally there between 11 AM and 7 > PM during weekdays and Saturdays, but not always on Mondays. > > Several years ago there was a passenger car washing facility (designed by A C > Gilbert but never put into production) that Tom may have had something to do > with "reproducing." I don't know if any other accessories have been > completed, but he was working on a Gabe, the Lamp Lighter. > > Chris Harding > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5968	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: S Guagian vs Dispatch ? uh oh!

Received several replies on my comments on (supposedly) the S Gaugian. Careful readers would discover I talked about membership and cover article, those folks know Mr foot-in-mouth meant to say Dispatch! Of course there are no members regarding S Gaugian, only subscribers. Sorry for the boo boo, and the replies were interesting anyway. Now that I M in the doghouse for grumbling bout the official publication.... Ah- more ammunition! L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5969	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: free beer

Chuck: I don't know if it's starting to appreciate. What has happened in the past is that the price will skyrocket, on some issues, and then remain constant there on out. i.e.: the BC tank went to $200 very quickly and is still seen offered for $200. The same is true for other issues as well, like the National box car, MoPac and BAR boxes, & Wyandotte Chemical. This fact doesn't seem to be as common with releases in the past few years. Perhaps someone else understands the phenomenon, I don't. Should you be interested in a BC tank, new in box, let me know! Bruce

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5970	From: SSabino39@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: gilbert atomic energy set

I attended the Gilbert tour event in New Haven as well as the train show the following day this past summer. At erector square there was an exhibit of trains , erector sets and the rare atomic energy set produced by gilbert in the late 40's and early 50's. Does anyone on the list know of an available gilbert atomic energy set ? Just asking. Enjoy the list a lot. Thanks. Rich

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5971	From: SSabino39@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Re: free beer

I went to Trainland today in Lynbrook after work to check out the 25% off on Flyer sale. Nothing Flyer is on display, but after asking I was given a catalog with lots of flyer listed along with L, MTH, etc. ( These items were prominently displayed ) I purchased a 48407 Gilbert Chemical Tank car at $39.95 less 25 %. A Silver Flash49606 AB & 3 cars, listed as "rare" was selling for $895. less 25%. This does seem high. This store has expanded over the years, but always has a problem finding "train people" to do the selling. ( There's a help wanted sign in the window now) They have another store in Coney Island in Brooklyn that I was at once a long time ago. Rich

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5972	From: Dennis Back	Date: 11/18/1999
Subject: Cheap hand-held A.C. controller?

O.K...I thought I would check with the electrical wizards out there before I burn down my pike. Here's my idea for a cheap hand-held controller: Take a standard wall light dimmer and hook it up in series with the 7-15 volt post on my Gilbert tranformer; turn on the throttle; walk away with the dimmer and control my train. Am I nuts or will this work? (be nice now) Question two: If this DOES work, doesn't the dimmer convert the power to D.C.? If so....can I operate my DC engine with it without a meltdown? (now I'm REALLY nuts now...right?) Regards, Dennis (who might be dangerous) Back

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5973	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Local Train shows, S seller there!

AH the little guys. Bringing whatever out of their basement and spreading it onto tables, that stuff they have since found a better example of, or got tired of, or dont want to maintain, or whatever. TREASURE! Mostly HO, N, O, and G, with a sprinkling of S (mostly old stuff in average or worse condition). I ran across a lady and her son with a table stacked, all kinds of cars, some locos, etc. Much from the 70's, NIB, and older things in decent condition. So i took the mad money that I didnt spend at another show (spent half of it on grandsons 87 Nova on new radiator, battery, etc but still had couplea hundreds and 50's left). Christmas in early November. And even found an S guy that seems to want the Cattle car and loader,also the mail car with no bags or post. So it was a good couplea hours! Came home with 2 locos, one with smoke and sound, one a classic streamliner , a NIB combine to match the streamliner, one NIB 24" long trestle, two 12" plate girder bridges, all in boxes but the plate girder bridges. she still has more stuff, her husband died 6 months ago and is liquidating most his trains. Last show I went to was 4x the size, two large modular layouts in HO and N, and wonder of wonders someone with about 6 tables of AM and/or SHS stuff and other new S odds and ends. He was part of an S dog and pony show, next to him somone with old flyer things on a table or two, and he was giving advice--- "If you want to collect trains, look at my things. If you want to RUN trains, better go up to Fred, the new equipment is reliable- these things are for fixing up. Depends on what YOU want to do- run trains or fix em." Interesting scenerio! All FYI. From the hinterlands of Meeeeeechigan. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5974	From: Chuck Harrington	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Train Show Times??

There is a TCA meet in Orlando, FL tomorrow, Saturday and Sunday, according to the TCA newsletter. The local Orlando Newspaper show this show as being open to the public from 11 am to 5 pm. My question is, since the show is open to the public, is it customery for the show to open earlier for TCA members, say 9 am. I am a TCA member but don't know if I should go to the show at 9 am or 11 am. Can anyone help enlighten me. The only previous TCA meet I have attended is York! Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5975	From: Richard	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: what is Dog and Pony??

Have to ask..couldnt let that one slide past. Geez you guys are lucky...i mean...able to pick up 2nd hand stuff..for projects et all >:-)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5976	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, November 21, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5977	From: Ron Sebastian	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: New S Scale America Hoppers Arrive

We have received our container for the three bay hoppers today. Sue spent most of the day unloading and then unpacking the cars. There are 8 different road names with 3 road numbers available for each. They are offered in either a "Flyer compatible" version with operating couplers or a scale version ready for your favorite Kadee couplers. The road names are B&O Chessie System, C&O Chessie System, Conrail, New York Central, Reading, Rio Grande, Southern, and Western Maryland. Mr. Plaster coal loads made special for this car are available at $4.98 each. Kadee 802S couplers are $2.95 per pair. Shipping/handling/insurance is $5.50 per order anywhere in North America. For those wanting a picture, there is a color ad in the new Classic Toy Trains. Hopefully the web page will get updated with a list of these shortly. Des Plaines Hobbies 1468 Lee Street Des Plaines, Il 60018 847-297-2118 fax: 847-297-4976 www.desplaineshobbies.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5978	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 440

The answer to both questions is a definate no. A wall switch type dimmer works by switching the power on or off at various voltage levels in the 120 VAC cycle. The voltage at the 7 - 15 V post of a transformer is nowhere near high enough for the dimmer to work. A similar design could work on 15 VAC, but it would have to have been designed for that voltage. And no, the dimmer does not convert the AC voltage to DC. The main switching device in a dimmer is a Triac, which is capable of operating on both polarities of the AC cycle. > Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 20:31:47 -0800 (PST) > From: Dennis Back <backden@...> > Subject: Cheap hand-held A.C. controller? > > > O.K...I thought I would check with the electrical > wizards out there before I burn down my pike. > > Here's my idea for a cheap hand-held controller: > > Take a standard wall light dimmer and hook it up in > series with the 7-15 volt post on my Gilbert > tranformer; turn on the throttle; walk away with the > dimmer and control my train. > > Am I nuts or will this work? (be nice now) > > Question two: > If this DOES work, doesn't the dimmer convert the > power to D.C.? If so....can I operate my DC engine > with it without a meltdown? > > (now I'm REALLY nuts now...right?) > > Regards, > Dennis (who might be dangerous) Back > > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ > ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5979	From: Jacques Ollivier	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Christmas, bah humbug!

Alright, I get the new s qaugian. "Christmas Holiday Edition" it says on the cover. I think, "Great, Christmas layouts and stories." There is no further mention of Christmas in the whole magazine until S-Helper Service's festive add on the back cover. Being an almost 40 type guy who missed the train glory days, I would love to read some Christmas and train stories. Happy holidays! Jacques

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5980	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: X-mas, bah humbug

One of the principal problems in s gauge is that we, both scalers and higher rail types, don't write enough articles for the various publications that are out there. Get those new year's resolutions together,guys. Write an article in 2000 ! Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5981	From: The Reis's	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Re: free beer,cheap trains

Chuck: I don't know about your area but here in the Northwest the AF by LTI cars are a tough sell. I had quite a few and it took a couple years at giveaway prices to sell them off. A couple others with large collections to liquidate went through the same thing with most cars going in the low $20's. I haven't seen any changes lately at the local public meets or the TCA meets where they are not really even looked at anymore. Maybe the frenzy on ebay for anything Flyer will change that. This brings up the bigger question. The local Seattle area meets are not even half the size they were a few years ago. There are fewer meets with less attendees. The TCA division meets are also a lot smaller and items are not selling as well. Is this the Ebay factor or the age factor. Just to note when I got back into Flyer about 1980 I was the youngest person in the local S-gauge group and for the most part I'm still pretty close to it. OK, I'll go back to playing with the AM and SHS trains I bought cheap at last weeks swap meet. eric reis Kenmore, Wa. ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck Harrington <paketpet@...> To: <David_Horn@...>; s-trains <s-trains@onelist.com> Sent: Thursday, November 18, 1999 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [S-Trains] free beer > Thanks for a new AF site; I have bookmarked it! > > But, the prices seem real high. A Domino 49608 hopper for $125.00; that > is about twice the original retail price. At 25% off, that would still > make the car almost $94.00. Is the AF by LTI stuff starting to > appreciate? > > Thanks, Chuck > > David_Horn@... wrote: > > > Well not exactly, but 25% off recent Flyer. > > > > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5982	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 11/19/1999
Subject: Re: Christmas, bah humbug!

I don't care who you are fat man. Get that sleigh and rain deer off my roof. Larry Jacques Ollivier wrote: > From: Jacques Ollivier <ollivier@...> > > Alright, I get the new s qaugian. "Christmas Holiday Edition" it says > on the cover. I think, "Great, Christmas layouts and stories." There > is no further mention of Christmas in the whole magazine until S-Helper > Service's festive add on the back cover. > > Being an almost 40 type guy who missed the train glory days, I would > love to read some Christmas and train stories. > > Happy holidays! > > Jacques > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5983	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Re: Christmas, bah humbug!

Dear Jacques, Funny you should mention our ad on the back cover of the S-Gaugian. I think I am reading correctly that you liked it. It was the brain child of our friend and photo master Bob Werre. We were all at a loss on the best way to display our new three car sets gift box in November advertisement. Well I shared this with Bob and he cam back with the under the Christmas Tree approach. We loved the idea and Bob took the photo. When it was time for to layout our 2000 catalog, John Golla, our graphics designs remembered the Christmas image from the ad, liked it so much that it is now is full page (we should get some of these next week for shipment). I think the only person who thought "Christmas, bah humbug! was Bobs wife Pattie when she had to drag out all of their Christmas stuff last August in Tall that heat in Texas. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets are now shipping! Jacques Ollivier wrote: > From: Jacques Ollivier <ollivier@...> > > Alright, I get the new s qaugian. "Christmas Holiday Edition" it says > on the cover. I think, "Great, Christmas layouts and stories." There > is no further mention of Christmas in the whole magazine until S-Helper > Service's festive add on the back cover. > > Being an almost 40 type guy who missed the train glory days, I would > love to read some Christmas and train stories. > > Happy holidays! > > Jacques >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5984	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Christmas layouts and stories

Glad U asked! On the advice of a list member I started broadening my horizons and finding out whats out there (besides S) and its a revalation! Just jump in your sleigh and pick up the latest O Ga Railroading and Classic Toy Trains. Between the two there gotta be 5 articles, count em, sometimes I make misteaks. Wonderful family history stuff, lots of color photos, and at least one DIY article. If you dont tell list members, they will nebber know U bought the mags. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5985	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Re: Christmas, bah humbug!

A place to find Christmas train layouts and stories is in CLASSIC TOY TRAINS magazine. It's true that they're mostly O gauge, but they're Christmas and trains. This December's issue has an article on how they built a Christmas layout. Happy holidays, Roger. Jacques Ollivier wrote: > From: Jacques Ollivier <ollivier@...> > > Alright, I get the new s qaugian. "Christmas Holiday Edition" it says > on the cover. I think, "Great, Christmas layouts and stories." There > is no further mention of Christmas in the whole magazine until S-Helper > Service's festive add on the back cover. > > Being an almost 40 type guy who missed the train glory days, I would > love to read some Christmas and train stories. > > Happy holidays! > > Jacques > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5986	From: Roy Hoffman	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Christmas and AF!

Christmas is built upon memories. Most of us in S had AF in our childhood. It's nostalgia that drives us to collect and/or operate AF. I'm a scaler now, but guess what gets put up in the living room at Christmas? Any magazine that fails to exploit this is missing out on something (sales, I think). When I belonged to the South Jersey S-Gaugers, we had our December meetings at a member who had a great AF layout, not at a scalers layout. The S-gaugian has a self-imposed limit of 52 pages of which 4 are color, not counting the cover. It's hard to balance scale and AF within these limits. I sent a scale oriented article to them a year ago and it hasn't been published as yet. However, I would gladly concede the Nov/Dec issue to all AF and Christmas every year. I think it would be the best selling S-Gaugian of all time. Roy S-scale Penn Western Model Railroad NMRA MER SMD. NASG www.innernet.net/rhoffman

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5987	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Re: Christmas, bah humbug!

Hi all, Well, as soon as the next Dispatch comes out, you should find a magazine with "under the tree" Christmas Layouts in/on it. That's all I can say!! JUST WAIT!!! S'incerely, David Dewey Watch the Railroad watch and repeat after me, "The future is in S, the future is in S, the future is in S, the future...."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5988	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Christmas Layouts

I am currently finishing up on my christmas layout. 8x10 with 2 ovals of track . A ton of dept.56 buildings including the lionel building that was just bought by the AC Gilbert CO. Sing on building will eventually say" coming soon American Flyer Trains". I just need to get a sign made the right size. Any Ideas are aprreciated. Lots of animated toys like a merry go round a ferris wheel ,skaters,skiers. sledders,a flying santa,etc. Also loughts of 1/64 scale racing champion cars.Once I get finished I'd be glad to try and scan some pics and e-mail them to anyone on the list. Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5989	From: ironhors@swbell.net	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Re: Christmas, bah humbug!

I have close relatives named Schmitt who have to put up with their version of that joke every year. lawrence jackman wrote: > From: lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> > > I don't care who you are fat man. Get that sleigh and rain deer off my roof. > > Larry > > Jacques Ollivier wrote: > > > From: Jacques Ollivier <ollivier@...> > > > > Alright, I get the new s qaugian. "Christmas Holiday Edition" it says > > on the cover. I think, "Great, Christmas layouts and stories." There > > is no further mention of Christmas in the whole magazine until S-Helper > > Service's festive add on the back cover. > > > > Being an almost 40 type guy who missed the train glory days, I would > > love to read some Christmas and train stories. > > > > Happy holidays! > > > > Jacques > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5990	From: bgaylord@mnic.net	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: reproducer conversion

Anyone that has converted an old phonograph reproducer to a talking station. Would you please share with me how you converted it and any suggestions that came of this experience. Thanks. Bob Wight.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5991	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: Mini Funnels

I was forced today to go with my wife to "Bed Bath & Beyond"...I found a great product for our smoking steamers....it is a "2" pack of mini funnels for $1.49....they fit great in the stack for adding smoke fluid with out spilling all over the locomotive...it is made by Acme International #93070..Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5993	From: John Simkovich	Date: 11/20/1999
Subject: building blocks

Hello Guys, I was rooting through some boxes today, and found something that you don't hear much about, this is a set of AMerican Flyer up and down set. these blocks are made of a concrete type material, and are in different heights. I was just wondering if they are worth anything or are rare. I only saw the one set that I have and never heard anyone talk about them. Any feed back would be great on these blocks. I used them once and they really do work. Sincerely John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5994	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Racing Champions Mint

I was scanning the Racing Champions homepage today to see what was new in Mint. There was horrible news on the front page. RC has retired the mint line. The article said the last items were produced in October. Fortunately, other companies such as Hot Wheels and Johnny Lighting have recently produced more street 1/64th scale stuff. Here's hoping someone else will come along. But there is some great news on the horizon, especially for those of you in Virginia. I wrote Code 3 a few weeks ago to ask how they decide what fire equipment to produce. They wrote back and advised me to submit a suggestion with pictures. I did and their home page now announces a Chesterfield (Virginia) Fire Department pumper. The piece will be Engine 43 which I drove for several years when I was a paid firefighter with the County. Knowing the detail these units have a very much look forward to this model. They can be purchased direct from Code 3 and at hobby and toy shops that carry code three. For any of you around Richmond, Chesterfield Hobbies has ordered 24 of them, but they are going fast. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5995	From: mary jo shutt	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: wheel wobble

I have 2 PA diesels with driver wheel wobble. Both have the pulmor tires. Is there anywhere that I can get bushing for these engines? Any help would be appreciated> Rick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5996	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Gift Registry

Your friendly 'S' suppliers have volunteered to bend over backwards to help you get all the 'S' you want for the coming holidays. Check out the S-Trains Gift Registry at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/gift/gift.htm. If this works out I suspect we will be expanding the number of vendors participating. These friendly folks have expressed an interest in helping your loved ones purchase 'S' stuff for you, please take advantage of their offer. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5997	From: mark a lambert	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: COAL LOADER BUCKET NEEDED

Hi my name is Mark and I have been a member of Paul"s train list for a long time now. I have never listed a message before but I do enjoy the list everyday. My question is simple, does anyone know of where I might be able to pick up a bucket for a coal loader that I just purchased. It is in dire need of restoration it also needs the wire that holds the tramway up. I think that I could make the wire part but the bucket is a tall order. I understand that it may not be wise to purchase a loader without the bucket but I do have time on my side and I do hope that someone might be able to help me out. I'm not even sure that this message is going to the right place, but nothing ventured nothing gained. THANKS AND MAY GOD BLESS M.A.LAMBERT

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5998	From: MYTRAINS@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 442 building blocks

These are # 781 & #782 Abutment sets go together like trestle sets and look real nice I have both sets in the box worth about $50.00 each. Mike Newcomer

Group: S-Trains	Message: 5999	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, November 21, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6000	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Re: typos

I hate to do this, but as a teacher I have a pet-peeve with some postings: intentional spelling and grammar mistakes just to save some typing time and effort. Not only does it make reading some postings rather difficult, but it is also a very bad example for any youngsters who may be part of the list. Now, I know----there probably AREN'T any such animals on S-Mail....but we don't know that for sure (at least I don't). Unless you're a teacher, you don't realize how difficult it is to break kids of speaking/spelling/grammar habits they pick up here, there, and everywhere. Now.....I'm not interested in turning this into a thread of back-and-forth dialogue. Just take it for what it's worth (which maybe is NOTHING to you). Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6001	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 442

Making signs is a place where 1990's technology can actually help 1940's technology. An inkjet printer can make great signs and a good computer drawing program ac scale them to any size. Be sure to use an drawing program (such as a CAD program) rather than a paint program (such a Paintbrush, which is included with Windows 95, or any of the photo editing programs used for adjusting reality in scanned photographs). Drawing programs scale much better than paint programs. Be aware that the inks used by ink jet printers are water soluble and will run if they get wet. Avoid using water based glues with them. Covering the sign with clear Contac paper (actually Contac vinyl) gives the sign some protection, some stiffness and a matte finish. > Message: 6 > Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 11:18:19 EST > From: Cbtrainnut@... > Subject: Christmas Layouts > > I am currently finishing up on my christmas layout. 8x10 with 2 ovals of > track . A ton of dept.56 buildings including the lionel building that was > just bought by the AC Gilbert CO. Sing on building will eventually say" > coming soon American Flyer Trains". I just need to get a sign made the right > size. Any Ideas are aprreciated. Lots of animated toys like a merry go round > a ferris wheel ,skaters,skiers. sledders,a flying santa,etc. Also loughts of > 1/64 scale racing champion cars.Once I get finished I'd be glad to try and > scan some pics and e-mail them to anyone on the list. > Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6002	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Re: COAL LOADER BUCKET NEEDED--good luck!

Mark, Good question. It may take you some time, just be patient! Took me many years of idle searching, then about 6 months of really looking, but my loader is now complete! This list is what made it possible too! I think the wire may be reproduced, if not, it is not a hard piece to replicate. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6003	From: anaoa gellengerg	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Hello. I wanted to let you know about the most wonderful website that everyone should visit. Please forward this e-mail to your friends, relatives, and co-workers. This website is about a beautiful little boy named Kurt. The address is http://www.spacestar.net/users/oswemic/index.htm Kurt�s family has been through a lot since the accident. The driver that hit Kurt only had $30,000 of liability insurance. The hospital bills were over $52,000 and the family needed to hire a lawyer to collect the money and then the lawyer got 1/3 of that. So this family is still in financial trouble even after three years and needs help. I know a little bit about the family from the website and have been able to learn more from talking to friends and relatives. They are wonderful people and they have had two more little boys since then and now they are expecting another baby. I have donated $25 to the Kurt Osweiler Memorial Fund, care of Citizens State Bank of Norwood, 409 Faxon Road in Norwood, MN 55368-0098. Please do what you can to help them out. They are truly a family in need. Thank you and God Bless. Anaoa

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6004	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: anaoa gellengerg

What is this anaoa gellengerg stuff? I guess truth is stranger than fiction. Paul, get the hook ! Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6005	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 11/21/1999
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Well if they are in that bad of money shape someone should tell them where the babies are coming from. Larry anaoa gellengerg wrote: > From: anaoa gellengerg <oldgeezer3@...> > > Hello. I wanted to let you know about the most > wonderful website that everyone should visit. Please > forward this e-mail to your friends, relatives, and > co-workers. This website is about a beautiful little > boy named Kurt. The address is > http://www.spacestar.net/users/oswemic/index.htm > > Kurt�s family has been through a lot since the > accident. The driver that hit Kurt only had $30,000 of > liability insurance. The hospital bills were over > $52,000 and the family needed to hire a lawyer to > collect the money and then the lawyer got 1/3 of that. > So this family is still in financial trouble even > after three years and needs help. I know a little > bit about the family from the website and have been > able to learn more from talking to friends and > relatives. They are wonderful people and they have > had two more little boys since then and now they are > expecting another baby. > > I have donated $25 to the Kurt Osweiler Memorial Fund, > care of Citizens State Bank of Norwood, 409 Faxon Road > in Norwood, MN 55368-0098. Please do what you can to > help them out. They are truly a family in need. > > Thank you and God Bless. > > Anaoa > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6006	From: Gary.L.Ippolito@xxxx.xxx.xxx	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: typos

Hi Doug, I certainly hope that you're not an English teacher. Before you go throwing stones at members of the lists, you may want to check your own punctuation. The string of "Now, I know----there" looks like a fragment. I would also think that "S-Mail....but we" and "Now.....I'm not" should have commas as separators. Your capitalization in the middle of a sentence is in poor form as well. I'm sorry, but your post only deserves a grade of "B". If you would like, you can correct your errors and repost. Thanks, Gary PortLines@... on 11/21/99 07:44:33 PM To: S-Trains@onelist.com, S-Scale@onelist.com cc: (bcc: Gary L Ippolito/D31/CLEV/FRB/US) Subject: Re: [S-Trains] typos From: PortLines@... I hate to do this, but as a teacher I have a pet-peeve with some postings: intentional spelling and grammar mistakes just to save some typing time and effort. Not only does it make reading some postings rather difficult, but it is also a very bad example for any youngsters who may be part of the list. Now, I know----there probably AREN'T any such animals on S-Mail....but we don't know that for sure (at least I don't). Unless you're a teacher, you don't realize how difficult it is to break kids of speaking/spelling/grammar habits they pick up here, there, and everywhere. Now.....I'm not interested in turning this into a thread of back-and-forth dialogue. Just take it for what it's worth (which maybe is NOTHING to you). Doug Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6007	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Doug's Comments

Doug; I felt shareing your pet peeves on the list has nothing to do with S-Trains. I took offense because I dont spell or do grammer the best because When I was a child I did not get the education you did. I was beaten tortured and set on fire. When I was 18 I went to a very unpopular war. But with this handicap I still entered the work force and was an excillent marketing agent and was able to retire very well off at the age of 42 years old. I type with two fingers because it is hard for me to learn. I also have pet peeves but I chose to Approtitly share it else where. Look in your own backyard first. I frankly dont care for your piss poor way of marketing of your businees. I know of no cost ways that would give you 30% more clients this year alone. But it is your business. So correct this spelling and grammer and repost it please. I dont have time for people that live in a tunnel. Bob Wight.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6008	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: COAL LOADER BUCKET NEEDED

What makes this piece so difficult to reproduce? Isn't it just sheet metal and rivets?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6009	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: COAL LOADER BUCKET NEEDED

Two main things make this piece difficult. 1) The Bucket halves. These are stampings, with an odd shape to them, not a difficult thing to have done when you have a machine shop and stamping press handy, and experience in making dies--and want, say 2,000 pieces (makes 1,000 buckets). If you only want 200 pieces, well, they cost a lot more each! 2) Coil. Less difficult, but you still need a coil form with a brass tube center. These can be wound in a "backyard workshop" with a little "imagineering." At least that's what's stopping me from making them! (well, and maybe some capital) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6010	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: AM questions/answers

I had a few questions on my mind about AM's streamlined K4 and prototypical-close couplers. Ron shot back a very prompt and informative reply. Thought you might be interested. From: David_Horn@... Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 10:08:02 -0500 To: info@... Subject: Streamline K4 and couplers Hi, Your PRR streamlined K-4 looks interesting, but I was wondering why did you elect to put the Gription tires on the front drive wheels and not the rear set? I would think most of the weight is on the rear drivers, especially when climbing grades. BECAUSE its too much traction, this will increase pulling by 100% ... We have a lifetime warranty on the motor and it would be excessive heat if one loaded up too much. Besides the engine should be able to spin wheels to protect the drive line and motor. One other question, in terms of your prototypical close flyer couplers, if I use them, will I be able to get around 19" radius AF track curves? Yes it will work fine. Thanks for your help. Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6011	From: Richard	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Trucks in scale!!

| Just wondering about truck sizes!! | I have noticed some stuff | on theshelves lately that is marked 1:72 | (actually noticing far more lately | that are marked with scale) | Im just wondering as these have | some good detail etc | now how appropriate , and indeed accurate a Van, | or flatbed could I make utilising the | cab etc of a 1:72 semi and grafting | it onto a scratchbuilt body. | Do trucks within same heritage, | say Ford, Or Chevy..sorta scale down | in their ranges.You know, look like a | baby brother of their grown up semi rigs? | cheers >:~)) Richard | oh yeah�you may be wondering what that | line is to the left? | Itsa margin�for anyone who wants | to correct this message!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6012	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Trucks in scale!!--JOKE

Richard, So your posting included a "margin of error?" Humor, son; I say, "It's Humor!" S' David D. PS note the addition to the header. On one list I'm on we have a rule that side-barbs, etc. must have "YAK" added to the post, so others know they can just delete them and not miss anything with "real" information! I figured "YAK" wouldn't make sense to this list, so I added "JOKE."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6013	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: typos

In the ten years or so since I started writing the Roundhouse I've received hundreds of letters asking for or giving help. I was shocked to discover that America is only a semi-literate nation. There are a lot of very intelligent and even well educated people with great ideas but very poor language skills. It is a national disgrace. In short, our educational system stinks, judging by results. Young people are not taught how to read and write, what their place in the world is, or how to act, and there is a failure to build a sense of community too. I blame the teachers and administrators. Although there are a lot of good ones out there, the majority are just time servers, bureaucratic survivors mainly interested in their salaries, pensions, and perks. The administrators don't create an environment where success is possible, and the teachers don't get any teaching done. We are having a big scandal now here in NYC because it turns out that a high percentage of teachers are not certified in the subjects they teach and take the licensing exam an average of 3.5 times before they pass it, if they are even liscensed at all. Our young people are and for a considerable time have been defecient in math, sciences, history, and especially english. I have been a full time parent for the last 15 years or so and have been shocked and disgusted at the goings on. My daughter had a biology teacher who was a home economics teacher until they eliminated that subject. This woman knew no more about biology than the man in the moon. My daughter's graduation party last year ended in a gang fight. My son has been stalked, and also attacked with scissors and baseball bats. He has had entire years where not one piece of english homework was corrected and handed back to him. Last year he had an assignment: to read three stories and DRAW A PICTURE comparing them. Why not a written comparison? Today's teachers don't like to correct papers. They don't like to teach spelling and grammar. And they are terrified of getting sued, so they are reluctant to take bold actions to correct bad situations. Two years ago a student in my son's class tried to kill another student and wasn't even suspended for a day, because by their own rules with one more suspension they would have had to expel him. Language constantly changes. With millions taking to the new medium of e-mail, the changes in our language will be profound. A looser, more converstaional style is called for. But because many people have been taught such poor language skills, the result threatens to become linguistic anarchy. We may well end up with a country in which people can't communicate with each other very well. This would make us a much weaker nation. So I have to say I agree with Doug. Things are so bad language-wise that we shouldn't make them worse with cutsey-wootsey misspellings. And we should all think about what we can do to light a fire under our educational system and make it accountable to the community once again. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6014	From: Richard	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Literacy and such

I was to leave my comments as a whimsy..but whilst I agree that the literacy of many, not just Americans, by the way, needs attention, this is not a forum for the education with respect to the three R's (that in itself an oxymoron) This is a discussion forum for those with a like interest in trains and such , ostensibly in the preferred scale of 1:64. Keep in mind, I being but an antipodaen colonial are apt to spell such words as colour, humour differently as well as such words as modeller etc in a different guise..am I to be corrected..guys guys..point taken. But if someone was standing next to you and in conversation dropped a verbal clanger, would you stop and correct the person...NO ..I don't think so. Lets get back to the trains...and trucks.....please By all means campaign for better funding for education..indeed take under your wings a less fortunate child and help....but not here!! I value the camaraderie and friendships that have been borne of this and other lists. I am a product of my life and not likely to change too many spots at this juncture. Now I have committed as bad a transgression as others by affording far too much space to this . Enough cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6015	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: World's Largest S-Scale Model

Here is a link to an article in last Sunday's "Cincinnati Enquirer" about the new exhibit being done by the Cincinnati History Museum, featuring a 1/64 model of 1940's Cincinnati complete with S-scale trains and streetcars. Not really much about the trains in the article, but it is interesting to see what they are up to. http://enquirer.com/editions/1999/11/21/loc_little_city_makes.html I will try to see the display when I am in Cincinnati on December 4 for GATS and will report my impressions. I wonder where they are getting the streetcars? Vic Bereskin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6016	From: Bill & Diane Wade - B.T.S.	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Literacy and such (Off Topic)

Richard wrote: (snip) > Lets get back to the trains...and trucks.....please (snip) I know we all have things that bother us. We all need to vent these things, and who else is better to listen than a friend. The love of 3/16 railroading has brought a bunch of friends together here. But when we vent something other than trains on the list, we get in trouble. Perhaps in the spirit of friendship on this list, and for the sanity of the membership, we should set aside one day every couple of months for anyone to post any off topic issue that really bugs them. Two restrictions should apply: 1) the subject line must specify 'off topic' and 2) no responses are allowed. Each of us would read our friends' vents, shake our heads in agreement, and then get on with life! Or we could just stick to trains and suffer our peeves in silence! Diane gets to hear mine all the time; guess she would like some silence! BTW... the 1/72 vehicles are about 89% the size of a correct 1:64 model. Use them in the background and this will provide some forced perspective. Just make sure to use only 1:72 stuff in that area! Lots of figures also available from the model airplane crowd. Take care, chill out, enjoy your friends and trains, and have a safe and happy Thanksgiving Holiday! Bill PS - Richard, guess we will have to adopt you for a week as a temporary U.S. citizen so you can enjoy the holiday also. You get stuff 'Roo on Thursday! -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6017	From: Richard	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: Literacy and such (Off Topic)

Bill said: > Perhaps in the spirit of friendship on this list, and for the sanity of > the membership, we should set aside one day every couple of months for > anyone to post any off topic issue that really bugs them. Two > restrictions should apply: 1) the subject line must specify 'off topic' > and 2) no responses are allowed. Each of us would read our friends' > vents, shake our heads in agreement, and then get on with life! hmmm!!... a classic occurrence of good lateral thinking!! Warrants consideration. > > PS - Richard, guess we will have to adopt you for a week as a temporary > U.S. citizen so you can enjoy the holiday also. You get stuff 'Roo on > Thursday! > well done!! (thats the meat..make it well done..please) cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6018	From: Richard	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: re worlds largest S scale

WOW!! WHo's geting behind this thing. Is it set in any era? or many?? What a promotional tool...my mind just over-boggled!! Good luck to those involved. Gee...what a job...lucky bastards...building trains in S ..as a job!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6019	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: language

The language that is used on s-list is very much an appropriate topic for s-list. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6020	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/22/1999
Subject: Re: diesel rebush

In a message dated 11/22/99 5:25:05 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<I have 2 PA diesels with driver wheel wobble. Both have the pulmor tires. Is there anywhere that I can get bushing for these engines? Any help would be appreciated> Rick >> We rebush diesel chassis the RIGHT way....with a Bridgeport Milling machine....NOT with a drill press! Perfect results! The cost is $25 per chassis, plus $4 return shipping. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html VISA-MC-DISCOVER-AMEX ACCEPTED. Port Lines has three different catalogs available. Catalog #1 contains our complete listing of American Flyer Repair & Restoration Parts. Catalog #2 is our current Used AF Equipment List. Catalog #3 contains New Equipment & Products from all the different S manufacturers which we carry. Catalog #1 is $3.00. Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each. A set of all three catalogs is $6.00.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6021	From: aztecfan@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: CHRISTMAS S GAUGE

WALGREENS IS HAVING A SALE 3 BLUE BOX DOLL HOUSES FOR $12. JUST CUT OFF THE ROOF HANDLE. PICK UP "A CAROLING WE GO" SINGING CHRISTMAS VILLAGE. I DETAILED THEM BY PAINING IN REAL COLORS. THE CENTER BUILDING WILL NEED A TRANSAM ABOUVE THE DOOR. ALL BUILDING LIGHT UP ANS SING LIKE EPCOT CENTER. I WILL USE THE BUILDING AFTER CHRISMAS ON MY MOD LAYOUT. I AM WORKING ON "IT'S A GREAT LIFE" STREET. I HAVE THREE OTHER BUIDINGS FROM LAST YEARS XMAS VILLAGE. 2 COOPER STRIPS SHOULD BE ABLE TO LINK WIRING FOR ALL 3 BUILDINGS. IT SEEMS EVERY XMAS SET HAS FIGURE ONE OR TWO GAUGES ABOVE THE SET. REMOVE THE FIGURES THAT COME WITH THE SET. GO TO AN UPSCALE DEPARMENT STORE LIKE PROFFITS AND PICK UP "LIBERTY FALLS PEWTER FIGURES. THERE ARE 4 SETS AND THE COST $6 TO $10 DEPEDING ON THE STORE. BE SURE AND GET 2 LEXMAK RR FLASHERS. THEN EMAIL ME ON HOW TO GET THESE 3 VOLT FLASHER WORK ON SCALE TRACK. I WANTED TO SEE IF I COULD GET THE MOTION DETECTOR OUT OF A CHEEP $5 GROG TO TRIP SOME KIND OF A DOUBLE POLE SWITCH. ONE SIDE 3 VOLTS THE OTHER DEPENDS ON THE FROG. IT IT CROOKS I GIVE UP.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6022	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Hopper car roofs.

Most of us are familiar with the roof pieces that ACG made to go with the 924 covered hopper. Didn't someone make a run of similar pieces that fit the 40' 3-bay AF body? Are they still available? DJE-KCMO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6023	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Power Problems Cont.

Paul; Thanks for your response. I'll try to answer the best I can. Just remember I don't have the working knowledge that some of you have, but I quess that's why I'm here. The engines I run are as follows: 302 ac 282 (2) 342 ac 300 ac Franklin Me and my son's favorite to run is the 342ac and the Franklin. The Franklin seems to have the power but the others seem to be doggie under a load. The Transformer is a 8B 100 watts. The size of the track is difficult for me to explain. It measures, the track it's self, 11'x 4'. It has 3 switches. It is like a dog leg with 3 side lines going into the larger circle or oblong. Does accessories make a difference? I'm a good mechanic and the power plants are clean, new brushes and good armatures and fields. The power loss seems to get worse the further from the power source but also doggie at the power source. I have a hand car which seems to just "tear" around the course. Thanks in advance for the help. Bob Wight.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6024	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: Power Problems Cont.

Bob, Well, that's more information! However, are you running the accessories also from the same transformer as your track? What size wire are you running to the track? The 342 actually has a mechanical advantage over the other locos, and the Franklin has a later motor, lighter body, and could run a bit faster with less voltage than the three-digit stuff. (I haven't tested this theory, but it is plausible.) Some simple tests, when operating a loco that seems a bit "doggy" (those with canine pets may take offense to the use of this word! ;-) ), feel the feeder wires, are they getting warm? How about the track clip? Also feel the track joints. Resistance in these connections will manifest itself as heat. I actually stole that trick from the O gauge crowd. Their tubular rail often has poor pin-to-rail connections! The 100 Watts may be a tad on the small size for your track length too, so any poor connections will really show up as sluggish operations. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6025	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Don't Correct Grammar!

What's all this I hear about people correcting Grammar?? Don't you know she's a very old lady (and you can't teach an old dog new tricks) so leave her and her Rover alone! She has enough to do with cooking your Thanksgiving turkey and all those vegetables which you have to finish or you won't get any pie! (And I mean it this time!!!) I think the old lady is quite charming, especially when she gets all flustered, so . . . what? What's that? Wait . . . Oh, I see . . . Never mind. Happy Thanksgiving everybody! Rosanne Rosanna Danna

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6026	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Spam on the list

Recently, (in Digest 443, originally sent Mon. Nov. 22, 05:24:51, 1999) we read a post from Anaoa Gellengerg, a person whose name is unknown to me, urging a contribution to a charitable fund set up for a family who lost their son in a traffic accident. I visited the website mentioned, and while it appears to be sincere on the surface, there is no way of establishing that it is so. I believe myself to be sufficiently talented to set up a website in honor of my dead son and play upon the heartstrings of all comers so as to relieve them of a twenty-five dollar contribution. If I make it plausible, quote enough factoids, invoke the names of government figures and give links to tables of statistics, I could make you a believer. A few borrowed photographs of a cute kid will put the bleeding hearts over the top. This website has all this, and more. I suspect fraud for two reasons. The first was the tell tale e-mail spam we received. Our list is small. We know our contributors, especially any female names. This was not a regular contributor asking us to look at something of interest, this was promotion. Secondly, the father's description of how the little boy died in his arms is a real tearjerker, but totally inconsistent with medical practice in any competently run hospital. Life support is never removed so soon from someone so young, especially if he has not been ruled brain dead. I have no interest in carrying on a campaign against Internet fraud. It will be always lurking out there. I do become concerned when spam can be posted to our group. If this type of thing grows, we will suffer the fate of newsgroups, where participants spend more time deleting porno spam than they do reading posts. Comments, s'il vous plais? Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6027	From: Andy McBride	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Spam on the list

>From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > >Recently, (in Digest 443, originally sent Mon. Nov. 22, 05:24:51, 1999) we >read a post from Anaoa Gellengerg. . . . Here, here Chris! I suspected the same when I checked it out. Recently there have been a few posts that had nothing to do with S-trains. Though I agree that's we're all indeed good friends (as somebody else pointed out) I do think that we need to keep a focus to the list. If we continue to stray off topic eventually the list will come unraveled as there would be no common thread tying it all together. That's not to say we can only talk about how to fix a Flyer Cattle Loader (please God tell me all of you have yours working now) but rather we should talk about things as they relate to S-gauge trains as well. For example one off topic post was related to proper grammar and the state of public education. Great topic considering that Gilbert was a huge believer in educational toys so lets talk about that. Somebody else pointed out that there childhood had a lot of pain. I'd be curious to hear if collecting Flyer trains as a youth or as a adult put some of those demons to rest. There have also been a few posts from good hearted people wanting to donate to worthy causes. I think that's great but how about on this list we stick to causes that include Flyer. I'll bet many of us live close to a children's hospital that would be thrilled if folks from our list organized and brought in a train display. So please cast my vote for a wide range of discussions but please let them relate back to the interest that brought us all together in the first place. Andy McBride PS Hey Chris did you find any Flyer on the West Coast?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6028	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Power

Dear David Dewey: Thanks for your suggestions. Yes I'am running my accessories off the same transformer. I have another 100 watt transformer. Do you think I should run all the accessories off a separate transformer? I will check for warmth. Good Idea. What gauge wire do you suggest? I just won a 12B transformer for 50 bucks on E-bay. Do you think that could help? Thanks. Bob Wight

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6029	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: Hopper car roofs.

Lionel made them for the long AF hoppers. Try a Lionel dealer for a part. ironhors@... wrote: > > From: ironhors@... > > Most of us are familiar with the roof pieces that ACG made to go with > the 924 covered hopper. Didn't someone make a run of similar pieces > that fit the 40' 3-bay AF body? Are they still available? DJE-KCMO > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6030	From: Dave Ewing	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: off subject

Hi Tom, I have never been very good at spelling and grammer and I would hate to have to go back to school now. I do agree with you inpart but I hope you are not trying to say that I should miss out on this part of "S" out of fear of offending someone because of I don't communicate good enough. Your friend ( I really hope so) Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6031	From: Scott Holm	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Engine stuff

I was making David Dewey's modification (in which a bridge rectifier's AC leads are wired in series with the yellow, unswitched lead so that the voltage to the motor is reduced without reducing the voltage to the reverse coil thus making reversing at a slower speed possible, which in turn reduces derailments) to my Baldwin CNW switcher, so I had the shell off and ran it on the bench and heard a raspy rattling which indicated that the engine needed oil. This noise wasn't apparent when the shell was on. So I oiled it and I could not believe how much better it ran! It went twice as fast. I highly recommend oiling your Baldwin and in order to do so effectively, the shell needs to be removed. A drop at the bearings on each end of the armature and some grease on the gears. I put a drop down the opening between the front and back halves of the motor too. Also, I was working on my troublesome EP-5 NH electric and noticed a sparking coming from the worm gear area. Taking off the armature and testing with an Ohmmeter revealed that there was a short between the body and shaft of the armature and the windings. The resistance was lower for one of the windings which identified which of the three was actually making contact. Swapping in a new armature, the engine runs much cooler. We've always talked about checking the resistance between the three windings, but checking the resistance between the windings and the shaft should be done too. In a good armature this resistance should be infinite indicating no continuity. This arcing at the worm gear could have been the cause of the pitting on the worm gear that I wrote about in a previous post which I believed was the cause of the wearing out of the axle gear. And lastly, I agree with Doug and Tom that we could make a better effort to prevent typos, misspellings, and grammar mistakes. Spell checkers should be used more and maybe just rereading notes before sending them would make a big difference. We should also not assume that everyone who is reading will be able to read our minds and know what we mean. There are some posts that I can't understand at all! (Sorry if this last off-topic paragraph has put anyone over their bandwidth limit.)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6032	From: Bruce Pilcher	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: Doug's Comments

Gentlemen: I don't subscribe to this list to engage in other people picking at one another. I subscribe for the interchange of information on S-gauge railroading. Frankly, I have made a statement or two on the list that have resulted in some negative responses. I found that rather unnecessary as I was asking a question about a product or attempting to assist an individual with a question he/she had. Yes, I have noticed typos, poor grammar, punctuation, etc.... However, I'm not here to criticize others or to find fault. Let's get off our combined high-horses and enjoy the exchange of information that is available to us. "Model Railroading-Just for the Fun of it." Bruce P.S.: I'm a special ed teacher w/30 years experience. Be thankful for what you have and attempt to be humble with it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6033	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: Doug's Comments

I am having more fun than one human should be allowed to have Larry Bruce Pilcher wrote: > From: Bruce Pilcher <mitkof@...> > > Gentlemen: > I don't subscribe to this list to engage in other people picking at one > another. I subscribe for the interchange of information on S-gauge > railroading. Frankly, I have made a statement or two on the list that > have resulted in some negative responses. I found that rather > unnecessary as I was asking a question about a product or attempting to > assist an individual with a question he/she had. > Yes, I have noticed typos, poor grammar, punctuation, etc.... However, > I'm not here to criticize others or to find fault. Let's get off our > combined high-horses and enjoy the exchange of information that is > available to us. > "Model Railroading-Just for the Fun of it." > Bruce > P.S.: I'm a special ed teacher w/30 years experience. Be thankful for > what you have and attempt to be humble with it. > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6034	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: re worlds largest S scale

This should be a good impetus to the rest of the groups with or who could build modular layouts and display them at shopping malls and other major public events when such is feasible. I was involved in this here in KC for a number of years with teh combined group here, and I miss doing it. Keep things moving, keep trains brightly yet realistically colered, and you had an attention getter going--don't let the HO-groups corner the market on this. Richard wrote: > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > > WOW!! > > WHo's geting behind this thing. > Is it set in any era? or many?? > What a promotional tool...my mind just over-boggled!! > Good luck to those involved. > > Gee...what a job...lucky bastards...building trains in S ..as a job!! > > cheers >:~)) Richard > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6035	From: Kempfam@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Boy, some things never die. I bought Flyer as a kid, no, check that, my dad bought Flyer for me because I prefered the more scale proportions of the product and no more real estate was needed than for Lionel. I couldn't exactly put my finger on it at the time, but Flyer just looked better and it had two rails. I was reading a letter to the editor in the current CCT and a reader was taking exception to the CCT review of the very forshortened MTH E8. The E8,F3 and the PA by the way are nice looking models but they are just plain stubby. CCT criticized the proportions of the F3 and the reader emphasized he wanted more stubby product to fit in his limited space. Nothing has changed since the fifties. For the life of me I don't understand why someone would pass on S and buy O27, or now, Railking. Anyways, I'm happy with my lifelong hobby and choice of scale and am grateful totoday's S scale manufacturers, suppliers, and those that support S. Ron Kemp

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6036	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 444

The exhibit is being done by the Cincinnati History Museum which is run by the Cincinnati Museum Center for the Cincinnati Historical Society. The Cincinnati Museum Center is located in the former Cincinnati Union Terminal. It was one of the last major railroad stations built in the US, and a marvelous example of Art Deco architecture. It was built in the 1930's, when passenger rail was already declining. Except for during WWII, it was never used at anything near capacity. As Mark Twain said, "If I knew the world were about to end, I would go to Cincinnati. Everything there happens five years late." In addition to the history museum, the Museum Center houses a natural history museum, a children's museum and an Omnimax theatre. In my opinion, the history museum is the best of the lot. It's main exhibit, of which the model will become a part, concerns Cincinnati during the second world war and as such, the model will depict early 1940's. I would expect mostly steam power with maybe a bit of early diesel. I would expect the model to include the tracks along the riverfront and the Union Terminal. They claim that the city's streetcars will be depicted and I am especially interested in seeing what they will do for them. At that time, Cincinnati had a few PCC cars, but most of the fleet were 1920's or earlier Cincinnati Car Company product that would be very unusual. (Cincinnati Street Railway and Cincinnati Car Company were jointly owned, so while CCC existed, no other manufacture's cars were used. Vic Bereskin ----- Original Message ----- Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 23 Nov 1999 10:35:39 +1100 > From: Richard <richard_snook@...> > Subject: re worlds largest S scale > > WOW!! > > WHo's geting behind this thing. > Is it set in any era? or many?? > What a promotional tool...my mind just over-boggled!! > Good luck to those involved. > > Gee...what a job...lucky bastards...building trains in S ..as a job!! > > cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6037	From: Richard	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: we are not alone!

No this is not any announcement of extraterestial involvement, though apaprent there is a meet of S scalers on Staion Absolom this weekend (supper provided, transport maybe a problem) No No actually just some observations from other lists...yes folks ...my name is Richard and I have a problem...Ima bit of a list-junkie!! Over on the O (thats either "OH" or "Zero" !!) lists there are some murmurings about similar issues to our good "S"elves...that is getting new blood in etc..almost like deja vu sometimes!! An intersting obsevation was made by soem Oers at a show where other scales were present....Kids..yes Kids were saying they liked the big Size as compared to those pesky lil N things...must be easier to operate and run, and build, and paint, and etc etc etc!! Even kids realise the obvious!! This is what needs to be nurtured...also...kids were afraid of basic kits!! cos they build demplanes and trucks anyway!! Point being...just because "WE" collectively have our pet likes and dislikes, it might be well worth as a community stepping back and listening to the youth (that is the modelers of tomorrow) as to what intersts them!! MAybe at shows some good folk might mingle and with pad and pen in hand conduct a little information gathering !! Migh tbe some very intersting results. Thats all ..over from Absolom!! hope to see you here...eek gazads..slazbut!! The Big Head over!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6038	From: Peter W. Nichols	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Unsubscribe

Thanks

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6039	From: Richard	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Kids arent afraid of kits!!

Lookout I committed a typo!! I meant to say that kids were NOT afraid of kits as they already often made planes from kits or trucks from kits, or space stuff..like Station Absolom. Big head over cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6040	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: The topic of discussion is trains (S gauge, of course).

As a wordsmith who has spent more years in technical writing/editing than I would like to remember I wish to contribute the following piece of advise: THE TOPIC IS TRAINS... TRAINS... TRAINS. (Whoops, I capitalized the whole train.) In passing I will say that no matter where I roam on Internet I find people who cannot spell or use correct grammar, including in documents written by scholars in the areas of mathematics, physics, and astronomy. My concern is that we, or more correctly our institutions of public instruction, have been producing illiteracy. From the beginning of my career. more than 30 years ago, my editors have urged me to write at the SIXTH GRADE level. Many of the duments that I have written have been standardization documents to be used by degreed individuals for the purpose of project planning. If anyone does not like what is being done with the English language let him find a place where each and every (uh oh... redundancy) fellow wordsmiths go to complain about the current state of language and its usage. Now that I have that off my chest I would like to see this forum restricted to S gauge trains and related topics. That's what "S-Trains@onelist.com" is all about. Pet peeves about English or political garbage or any other area of human activity simply does not belong here. W. Thomas Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6041	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/23/1999
Subject: Re: Power

Bob, Good buy, the 12B is an under-appreciated power supply! In good conditon, it can do a lot, however, it doesn't have the carbon rollers of the later units. Yes, I would suggest powering your accessories with with a seperate transformer. I usually hook up lighted stuff on the variable post, so I can adjust light levels down some, helps save bulbs! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6042	From: Lamont Cranston	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: enough

dear w. thomas for someone who wants to talk trains your 'in passing' comments appear to be a dissertation you should have been around a few years ago when we discussed the word polarity regard'S' Clay who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men??? Clay Buckage Dave's Twacks & Twains Box 109 Tatamy, Pa. 18085 cbuckage@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6043	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Re: enough

The Shadow do!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6044	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Modules

Feeling I have been a pioneer in modules (first built two about 1974- 1 x 3 edges, 1" styrofoam top, HO, flex trak laid in construction adhesive and ballasted wet (its still on), etc etc) I am happy to see so much being done in modules. Oh yes, dont forget the built in scratchbuilt power pac with momentum, a switch disables it from the system for use with a central control. Have been to maybe 6 Train Shows in last 2 months, here in West Meeeeeechigan modules R everywhere. Usually the carry-in layouts are at least 30 ft long, sometimes more? Always an elongated donut, with the owners or their wives tending and answering questions. While some layouts were continuous and in a common style, one, most impressive, varied in mode from one to the next. Wild west then coal town then a winter scene and on and on. It worked much better in real life than my meager description can attempt to describe. It appeared NOT chaotic when viewing. Sort of a walking tour of the USA railroads in all parts of life? Course all had the standard 2 track mainline to join. SOme used PVC for legs, others 2 x 2's. Even backdrops standard. only N and HO gages seen. My brother in Orlando, a non train person, went to the latest TCA show and sale but NO layout!!! I have not been to a meet that didnt have a layout. Knowing some TCA members yes they do run trains. Just musing. But it sure R fun to see trains rather than 'just' stuff FS (little S of course). And the KIDS LOVE (thats 72 point caps) the layouts. Talk bout PR- thats PR not PRR. L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6045	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Dogg'n it

12B at 250 Watt is good for accessories, but with carbon roller wouldn't recommend for frequent train (i.e. speed change) operation. Try using 18 AWG wire to track clips, and use them every 5'-6'. Also try removing all track pins and wire brushing them bright and shiny, reinsert, bend outward about 1/16" to ensure good contact with next section. You can do a bunch of pins at a time by lying down a strip of masking tape (sticky side up), stick pins on the tape so that 1/2 of each pin is on the tape the other 1/2 extending beyond it. Make the strip of tape long enough you can fold it back over the pins. Take that "picket fence" of pins, secure them in a vise by their masking-tape base, use a wire brush on your power drill and shine their metal ends. When done, flip the fence over, close the vise on the shiny pins, remove the masking tape, and shine up the other half of them. Carefully open the vise, catch the pins as they fall out, and viola, you've got 8-10 pins done at a time. Check the wheel spread or track of all drivers on each engine too. Should be ~18.5-18.75 mm. Ensure your track is laid "naturally" (i.e. no forced curve configurations, etc.), level, and the rails are clean. Also, that the gaps between commutator segments on your armatures are cleared of any carbon, that has a tendency to build up, and create an unwanted "leak" between them. Grease on the gears, oil on the bearings and linkages, no build up or funny stuff in the choo-choo. Shovel in the coal, and let'm roll. PS I write these in a rush at work so if you find typos, please pardon them. I too value and appreciate good written and verbal communication, but don't always have the time to run checker on hobby-coms. "Strive first to understand, then to be understood."

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6046	From: Gary.L.Ippolito@xxxx.xxx.xxx	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Hopefully the final post about Doug's comments

O.K. Guys, You can stop sending me e-mail defending Doug's capitalization, use of ellipses, dashes, parenthesis, etcetera. My original post was intended to poke fun at Doug and not open him to public ridicule. The biggest problem with e-mail is that sarcasm doesn't get transmitted. Perhaps I should have used a little winking emoticon at the end to show that I was kidding ;-) I hope that Doug read my post in the spirit that it was intended and did not take it too seriously. Doug and I go back a long way and I hope that he still considers me to be a friend. Gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6047	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Let's End It!

Dudes: There is an excess of sensitivity on this list about these grammar issues. I used to correct grammar on the TCA list, but I gave it up. Most of the time, I could dig my way through and figure out what was intended. Occasionally, I just didn't get what the writer meant because the errors were so numerous or he assumed I knew his premise and started somewhere in the middle. I gave up on even asking for clarification simply because I couldn't take the barrage of hurt feelings dumped all over me. The point most of you seemed to miss in Doug's post, however, is that he was not criticising anyone's lack of education. He was talking about some sort of self-styled Internet shorthand that people adopt, which makes it quicker for them to type, but which is harder to understand. I wish he had given specific examples. No chance of him doing that now, though. He probably crawled under the desk to keep from being pelted with all the stones you guys threw. One of you even took a swipe at his business practices! Geez, calm down! Let's try to remember that this is a communication medium. It fails when we fail to communicate. The thing, the thing . . .what do you mean, you don't know what I'm talking about? It's the thing, THE THING! Let's make a pact. We can all promise to: 1.) Try to stick to the topic, S-Trains, but not make a religion of it, 2.) Be kind to each other, which includes overlooking our shortcomings, 3.) Do our level best to communicate, which means, get our thoughts clearly across to the others on the list. We don't have to be the best spellers or grammarians, but it would be nice to look over a post before hitting "send", just to weed out obvious errors that might impede understanding. Avoiding cutesy shorthand would help too! I L B C N U, 2 2 Go, Chris Zizzo :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6048	From: Dalessandro, David L TL13C	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Realism with Structures, I need input!

I will start out by saying don't even bother correcting my grammar, If spell check didn't pick it up I could care less. Here is what I am having a delima with,Using Dept 56 Structures. I am getting ready to set up a semi permanent layout, I want it to be as real as I could get it, I am using a nice mix of S Helper, American Models, and Flyer Alcos with some very awesome S Scale Steam Engines, I have about 8 Lehigh Valley Models structures which are very "real looking", Would Dept 56 items fit in or would it be a clash, I think they look great at night but is there too much glow from them. I would like any opinion I can get on this issue including which structures are closest to S Gauge to use if I decide to do with Dept 56.. David Dalessandro Sr. Distributed Computer Services Technician Cigna Philadelphia Area LAN Operations Phone: 1.215.761.1815 ; Net: 5.1815 Fax: 1.215.761.4336

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6049	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: power problems

Dear David Dewey; Thank you so much for the suggestions about my power problems. After making recommended changes and also resistance tests my 342 is pulling the load and smoking the room up and the wonderfull sounds of the chug, chug, chugging. Also with the different transformer on it's way I feel it will not be to long from now I will need Portline Hobbies to put in new bushings from all the use. Thanks Paul for your help. Sometimes even simple problems need to be looked at from the outside in. Just thought you would of liked to know. Thanks again. Happy Railroading Bob Wight

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6050	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: So good, I cross posted this to the S-List

Marty Cook wrote on the TCA mail list: >Boy, for about the >umpteenth time, I was looking at some HO stuff the other day and >I was muttering to myself. Geez, am I jealous of the prices the >HO folks enjoy! I've been "teased" by the HO bug since I was a >little kid in the '50's, but never took the plunge. Not likely >to occur now, either. I just love the feel of a big, die cast >O-gauge engine! I still try and hide the center rail, and have >done so since the introduction of Super "O" in the '50's. Even >strayed a bit to Kusan-Auburn in 1961, because the track was >so much more realistic . Gee Marty, what a nice argument for "S" Gauge. Come all the way out of the closet. Admit it to the world. Time's a-wasting. Tick-Tock goes David's watch. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6051	From: Bristol, Kirk	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Re: we are not alone!

>Kids..yes Kids were saying >they liked the big Size as compared to those pesky lil N things...must be >easier to operate and run, and build, and paint, and etc etc etc!! Roger that Mr. Big Head. It's kind of beyond me why kids ever get into the Z, N, or HO stuff. Those gauges are barely adult-friendly, let alone kid-friendly. Yet kids still take to it, must be due to a lack of exposure to the bigger gauges. I've begged my kids to look at the small gauges out of the appeal to me of the lower costs and less room required for a layout. My 7 and 9 year olds have looked at HO and have said no way. They think they're cheap, would break easy, and would be too hard to place on the tracks. Honestly, scale doesn't appeal much to my kids either. They look at a big O scale MTH steamer and say cool! Then they look at an old, abused Lionel 175 rocket launching platform and they say COOOOLLLL!!!! So my kids get into the O gauge toy trains and all of the operating cars and accessories. To them that's great fun. Certainly the size and heft is a part of their enjoyment too. I think that lets them relax a little and enjoy playing with the trains without sweating it too much if they actually drop something! 'Nough said, this is Captain Kirk signing off..... Kirk Bristol kbristol@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6052	From: Richard	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: kids'n'trains

Ive had a little think about this subject again, trying to remember some reactions of my own at shows etc. They all but ignored the Lilliputian varieties....theyloved the LGB and O stuff ...they couldnt be overwhelmed by "S" as there is none :-(( They quite liked the weel done HO stuff that wasnt too cluttered....they really like the layouts where something was happening...and yikes , dare I say it..they really liked smoke and sounds!! (there its out!!) At home they play with LEGO or the Ertl set...(dem kids'll never play with that microscopic stuff!!) They go ape over the ride on stuff...ah love them kids. They've got a G size set (cheap thing, you know the kind!!) but even at 4 and 5 they prefer something around S or O. Is it possible for folks who have time and energies to maybe enact my previous suggestion of taking notes and commentaries from kids at shows or exhibitions at malls....to actually get a real picture of what kids and teenagers might like?? COuld be a project for the NASG to co-ordinate....John??, Glenn?? anyone Ferris Bueler!! As to Eras for kids, I suppose there is no hard and fast answer....but by far the greater percentile of kids are interested inthe current and present!! They see Conrail (well ...did!!) NS CSX BNSF UP CP etc...they are the in your face roads...sure there are the Museums and Fan excursions etc..and some kids will develope an interst in things of old. The military comparison is not particularly a good example (though I hear you and undestand you comment!!)...most of this type of interest is a result of the big wars. Yes there is some modeling of Viet conflict stuff and many other campaigns as well as present, but Im thinking thatyouth will probably utilise the persent or recent past as a portal to their rail modeling excursions. This is another area to capitalise on...many youngen's should be encouraged to try (dabble) in our hobby. I put his up before, and being the shy creature I am I'll bloody well put it up again....many kids like building kits, and STATIC ones...not too many of those planes fly or starfighters fight!! they like the challenge and intricacy of putting something together (apparently more than their parents!!) I have often thought a good line of say Modern type locos , in glorious 1:64 of course, might be made available as static plastic kits..maybe also a couple of steamers. Some kids'l make them and sit them on a shelf ...and move on to the tank or plane..but they will have tasted a train...and we all know what happens later!! These kits need to be around the $30-40 range....a typical modern loco will be around 15" long..thats quite a display item....maybe a couple of modern type freight cars to sit behind it.....dont think as a model railroader here....think of someone who likes building things mechanical/industrial!! Of course such a line of kits would not go un-noticed by us now would it? <grin> Actually on the subject of dispaly plastic kits for plastic modelers(not necessarily train-nuts!!) I have speculated that something like a DDA40X...or Big Boy....Y6b etc would make intersting subjects for a model kit.....lots of fiddly bits onsome of these...would apeal to the model maker!!...just imagine a placky Y6b built up...super-detailed...be quite a sight in glorious "S".....non? cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6053	From: Bristol, Kirk	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Re: Realism with Structures, I need input!

I don't personally own any Dept. 56 houses, but I'm hoping on add some soon (after Christmas sales?). They certainly are neat and close to scale, but there's no doubt that they definitely have a ceramic house look to them. I think that these kinds of houses have their place, like on a layout under the Christmas tree. However, you're looking to make a layout that is "as real as I could get it." I don't think that the Dept. 56 stuff would fit with your goal. I'd recommend sticking with more realistic models. Maybe build it with what you've got now and see how it looks, then if you don't like it, replace the ceramic houses with models as time permits. If I get any Dept. 56, it's going to be relegated to use under the tree. The permanent layout that I am hoping to build will either have ultra-realistic kit structures on it or it'll all be toy-like Plasticville stuff with operating accessories. Just my opinion - remember that it's free and you usually get what you pay for. Kirk Bristol kbristol@... > -----Original Message----- > From: Dalessandro, David L TL13C > [SMTP:David.Dalessandro2@...] > Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 8:44 AM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] Realism with Structures, I need input! > > From: "Dalessandro, David L TL13C" > <David.Dalessandro2@...> > > I will start out by saying don't even bother correcting my grammar, If > spell > check didn't pick it up I could care less. Here is what I am having a > delima > with,Using Dept 56 Structures. I am getting ready to set up a semi > permanent layout, I want it to be as real as I could get it, I am using a > nice mix of S Helper, American Models, and Flyer Alcos with some very > awesome S Scale Steam Engines, I have about 8 Lehigh Valley Models > structures which are very "real looking", Would Dept 56 items fit in or > would it be a clash, I think they look great at night but is there too > much > glow from them. I would like any opinion I can get on this issue including > which structures are closest to S Gauge to use if I decide to do with Dept > 56.. > > David Dalessandro > Sr. Distributed Computer Services Technician > Cigna Philadelphia Area LAN Operations > Phone: 1.215.761.1815 ; Net: 5.1815 > Fax: 1.215.761.4336 > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6054	From: RRDART@aol.com	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Hopefully the final post about Doug's comments

In a message dated 11/24/99 9:18:02 AM Eastern Standard Time, Gary.L.Ippolito@... writes: << Doug and I go back a long way and I hope that he still considers me to be a friend. >> Well, Gary and I USED to be friends. I was talking to him one night lamenting how we didn't have an NFL team because our owner packed it up on a snowy night and drove it down I-70. He said you could have ours. I thought he was kidding. Now I can't get through to anyone in that area code with caller ID......................

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6055	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Power

Bob, If you have a voltmeter, you can help to diagnose your problem by checking the voltage drop at points around the track loop. Set the transformer for any output to the track, and then take a voltage reading across the base and 7-15 V terminals. Now check the voltage across the two clips on the track terminal where your transformer is connected. Next check the voltage between rails at that point and at any number of other points around the loop. This profile will show you where your voltage drops (and probably poor connections) are. Lacking a voltmeter, you might be able to use a light bulb if you can see differences in brightness at different locations. I use a Bright Boy or ink eraser which seems to be abrasive enough to take dirt or oxide off track pins. Bend the pins slightly to the outside when joining two sections of track to get a force fit in the rails and good electrical contact. Check the rails where you are placing your track terminal to see that they are clean. Clean with the eraser as above if needed. A suggestion I've seen for supplemental feeds is to run your second (18 -16 gauge) leads to the furthest point in your loop from the transformer. Connect them to a track terminal there. See if this solves your power problems. If not, then run third and fourth leads to quarter points in your system. Regards, Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6056	From: Gary.L.Ippolito@clev.frb.org	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Cleveland Browns - way off topic

John Craft wrote: >Well, Gary and I USED to be friends. I was talking to him one night >lamenting how we didn't have an NFL team because our owner packed it up on a >snowy night and drove it down I-70. He said you could have ours. I thought >he was kidding. Now I can't get through to anyone in that area code with >caller ID...................... There are no hard feelings John. We now have new Browns Lite. Same great taste with only half the wins! Gary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6057	From: NYC17819@aol.com	Date: 11/24/1999
Subject: Power

If an engine slows down the farther it gets from the track trip that supplies the power, add some additional track trips and power wires at strategic points around the layout so that the power doesn't have to flow solely through the rails and rail joints. The wire between the transformer and the track trips should be fairly heavy--16 gauge wire is preferable to 18 gauge or anything lighter. Otherwise, there will be a voltage drop between the transformer and the track trip because of a long stretch of thin wire. Even with a heavy duty transformer able to run trains and accessories at the same time, it still necessary to add power supply points with a moderate to long layout. I'd guess that track should be powered so that no point is more than 5 pieces of track away from a power supply track trip. Chris Harding

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6058	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re: Realism with Structures, I need input!

Dear Kirk, If you are looking for an inexpensive "S" scale house, try one of the ones the MTH peddles to the 0-27 crowd. The farm house, country house and he has a new one are closer to 1:64 than any other scale. And, they cost less than $28 with lights. Just take them apart, and paint them up and they look terrific. I always felt that Mike should have won the NASG Manufacturer of the year for these beauties. Don Thompson "Bristol, Kirk" wrote: > From: "Bristol, Kirk" <KBristol@...> > > I don't personally own any Dept. 56 houses, but I'm hoping on add some soon > (after Christmas sales?). They certainly are neat and close to scale, but > there's no doubt that they definitely have a ceramic house look to them. I > think that these kinds of houses have their place, like on a layout under > the Christmas tree. However, you're looking to make a layout that is "as > real as I could get it." I don't think that the Dept. 56 stuff would fit > with your goal. I'd recommend sticking with more realistic models. Maybe > build it with what you've got now and see how it looks, then if you don't > like it, replace the ceramic houses with models as time permits. > > If I get any Dept. 56, it's going to be relegated to use under the tree. > The permanent layout that I am hoping to build will either have > ultra-realistic kit structures on it or it'll all be toy-like Plasticville > stuff with operating accessories. > > Just my opinion - remember that it's free and you usually get what you pay > for. > > Kirk Bristol > kbristol@... > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dalessandro, David L TL13C > > [SMTP:David.Dalessandro2@...] > > Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 8:44 AM > > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > > Subject: [S-Trains] Realism with Structures, I need input! > > > > From: "Dalessandro, David L TL13C" > > <David.Dalessandro2@...> > > > > I will start out by saying don't even bother correcting my grammar, If > > spell > > check didn't pick it up I could care less. Here is what I am having a > > delima > > with,Using Dept 56 Structures. I am getting ready to set up a semi > > permanent layout, I want it to be as real as I could get it, I am using a > > nice mix of S Helper, American Models, and Flyer Alcos with some very > > awesome S Scale Steam Engines, I have about 8 Lehigh Valley Models > > structures which are very "real looking", Would Dept 56 items fit in or > > would it be a clash, I think they look great at night but is there too > > much > > glow from them. I would like any opinion I can get on this issue including > > which structures are closest to S Gauge to use if I decide to do with Dept > > 56.. > > > > David Dalessandro > > Sr. Distributed Computer Services Technician > > Cigna Philadelphia Area LAN Operations > > Phone: 1.215.761.1815 ; Net: 5.1815 > > Fax: 1.215.761.4336 > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6059	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re: Realism with Structures, I need input!

Has anyone approached him about labeling them as S/O27 as the plasticville houses are? John Craft

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6060	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: kids`n' trains

i feel that there is a type of kid, not a type of toy train, that gets the bug. a friend got into american flyer about 6 years ago, and his kids-3 boys, one girl (9,7,6 and 12) were "oh, that's ok" barely interested. last year, they were over to see our tree and christmas village. we were running a chicago 0 gauge flyer #3000 set and a lionel #153 passenger set around the tree and ceramic buildings. the kids went wild!! especially the girls! i gave them a spare # 150 engine and she was ecstatic! we now have a new family of tin-platers out there, and they ignored S-go figure!-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6061	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re; Realism with structures

I too have scratchbuilt or Lehigh Valley kitbashed kits on my main layout. I use ceramic buildings with a simple layout under our Christmas tree. I know the twain would not meet together. I saw a (pardon the phrase) "O" layout with nothing but Dept. 56 on it. It looked more appropriate with "O" since the trains were not close to scale or realism. 20 cars with Disney characters? Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6062	From: MWelbornjr@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: AF #20425 Set question???

Is it possible for the # 20425 1958 set to have a 21004 Pennsy B6 instead of 21005 Pennsy B6 and also with a 5 digit Rocket Launcher. Thanks for any help. Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6063	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re: Power

Why use track terminals on a permanent layout? They contribute to voltage drops too. Try soldering your feeders directly to the rails. It works MUCH better. Happy Thanksgiving everyone! regards, Alex in Kennebunk, Maine .-.-. -----Original Message----- From: Roger Delthony [mailto:delthony@...] Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 6:48 PM To: Wight. Bob Cc: S-Trains@onelist.com Subject: [S-Trains] Power From: Roger Delthony <delthony@...> Bob, If you have a voltmeter, you can help to diagnose your problem by checking the voltage drop at points around the track loop. Set the transformer for any output to the track, and then take a voltage reading across the base and 7-15 V terminals. Now check the voltage across the two clips on the track terminal where your transformer is connected. Next check the voltage between rails at that point and at any number of other points around the loop. This profile will show you where your voltage drops (and probably poor connections) are. Lacking a voltmeter, you might be able to use a light bulb if you can see differences in brightness at different locations. I use a Bright Boy or ink eraser which seems to be abrasive enough to take dirt or oxide off track pins. Bend the pins slightly to the outside when joining two sections of track to get a force fit in the rails and good electrical contact. Check the rails where you are placing your track terminal to see that they are clean. Clean with the eraser as above if needed. A suggestion I've seen for supplemental feeds is to run your second (18 -16 gauge) leads to the furthest point in your loop from the transformer. Connect them to a track terminal there. See if this solves your power problems. If not, then run third and fourth leads to quarter points in your system. Regards, Roger Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6064	From: mark.p.baker@xx.xxx	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: KING'S CROSS RAILWAY BOOK FAIR

> Just a last reminder that the King's Cross Railway Book Fair is to be held > at Keen House, the headquarters of the Model Railway Club > (http://www.themodelrailwayclub.org/index.html), at 4, Calshot Street, > London, N1, on this coming Saturday 27th November 1999 between 11:00 and > 15:30. This year will be the largest of the King's Cross Railway Book > Fairs with over fourteen of the countries best traders books. Admission is > just �1 and refreshments will be available all day from the Club's > licensed bar. Further details are available from me direct. > > > Mark P. Baker. >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6065	From: Fred Alles	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Track power and cleaning

Folks, I had a section of track on my layout that seemed to be a real dead spot even though it had a power connector in the middle of it. I finally decided to take the track apart and see if replacing the track would cure the problem. To my surprise, the track connector pins were all gunned up with a black, oily residue. I cleaned the pins using the wire brush on my grinder and put the track (about 10 pieces) back together and the section is now full of power and my trains run great over it. After thinking about the problem, I believe the oily gunk came from using too much liquid track cleaner on that section and the oily mess the cleaner was removing from the top of the rails was being deposited on to the track connectors through the crack between the rail segments. I guess the bottom line when using a liquid cleaner is to keep the rag fairly dry and don't over due the liquid cleaner. Anyone have the same experience?? Another observation I don't have an answer for is that a few pieces of my track seem to get real dirty with a oily, black residue and the very next piece of track is clean. Even after cleaning the one piece of dirty track, it get dirty again and the next piece is clean. Sounds crazy but I can't figure it out. Any thoughts?? Thanks for your time. Got to get ready for the Turkey and then play trains. Fred Alles

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6066	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Track power

I have found by putting additional feeders worked well...plus I solder my connections to the side of the rails...much easier to hide wires this way....if you are using gargraves flex track.....I have found you can slide the wires underneath the rails and it is snug in the crack....happy thanksgiving to all..Jeff --

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6067	From: Bill Rodgers	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: unsubscribe

HELLO, YES UNSUBSCRIBE ME FROM S TRAINS,11/25/99 I WANT TO RESUBCRIBE TO S SCALE DIGEST FORMAT REGARDS, BILL RODGERS NASG TCA rpc@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6068	From: Richard	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: many ways to pique the kkids

John M and all New Tinplate fans...great.!! Im not trying to advocate that there is only one "best" method to intersest kids and teenagers...hell dressup in tights and pipe "working on the railroad" if it will garner attention and interest. It is entirely realistic that many tacks are required. PArt of the point of surveying the kids at shows etc is to try to get a picture of what might interst them sufficiently to step across the line and "play" or model with trains. I have no doubt that there will be a different result from the "majority" of sub 7-8 y-olds compared to those older up tosay 13-14....cos then lets be real...the hormone thing will kick in and many will be losttil they're late inthe twenties etc! Now some of you are teachers or maybe married to one , or know of someone with access to info from studies related to child development...there may be clues in there!! WHOA, WHOA ..boy..whats all this about studies and surveys..we're talking trains here son!! Yep so am I. Those that purvey the brain-killers (read Nintendo -Playstation etc) know where Im coming from...they already know what piques a kids interest....this is what we, as a group, as an organisation etc need to find out aswell if we are to have any hope of capturing some of the pie..os is that..whopper!! We as adults enjoy trains as an end-game to certains wants and desires..trains fulfill these!!...what vacancies in a child's or youth's mental shopping list can be seerviced by this the greatest of hobbies. I fervently believe this is something that maybe the NASG, or NMRA needs to address. "The Doctor is Out" get well Charles!! cheers >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6069	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re: Realism with Structures, I need input!

When I approached them (the MTH staff and Mike!) at several trade shows, I think they wanted me to keep quiet and go away. I really felt that they were embarrassed that I had exposed their structures for what they really are. Some 0-27 people actually think they are "zero" scale items. Don T. RRDART@... wrote: > Has anyone approached him about labeling them as S/O27 as the plasticville > houses are? > > John Craft -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6070	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re: modules

Went to the NASG site regarding modules, pretty dry info tho 'engineering wise' it is correct. One list member wanted me to do something on modules, I sort of passed it off, I mean the advantages are all there!!!! How else can U build a portable layout 24 x 32 feet, bring it in a man at a time as they arrive at the show, set it up in 45 minutes, and have the trains running in an hour TOTAL? Modules. Each club member simply makes his 2'4 " x 5' 4" module to a standard that allows- matching two track mainline in the same relative location on every module, coordinated securance end to end, and standard leg location/height with simple screw type final leveling adjustment. Cost to each club member, lets say about $75, maybe 100 max? Scenery is determined by each member unless the club decides on a common theme. Trubble with S in most locations (cept the east coast?) is having a club with enuf members....!!!!! (sounds familiar.... where are the trains...). All modular layouts I have seen have been HO and N, allowing trains 6 or 7 ft long to impress onlookers. Usually 2 or 3 trains running at a time, on various loops. Block, loop, or electronic Cab Control. The club owns the power source, and designs/builds that as a group project. A list member also says he has never seen a Module in Florida. Sounds possible. You gotta DO it to appreciate it! Or re-read my brief description above and jump to Chuck Smiths module site at http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith and browse. If anyone knows of other module sites please post to us. ALso http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/smod/smod.htm but this is a DRY site, full of standards, read the 3 text pages except the last about track laying. So heres a typical module- 1 x 4 clear fir 4 sides, using self screwing 1 1/4" self drilling drywall screws two per end along with carpenters glue to build. Two intermediates for bracing, trim them so the 3/4" rigid foam insulation fits on top of the intermediates. Ends get drilled for two 1/4" x 3" machine bolts with washers each end and wingnuts to hand tighten without tools. Lets simply as desired, some use 2 x 2's with a 5/16" x 3 " machine screw in a slightly smaller hole drilled in bottom of 2 x 2. Level with open end wrench to the next module. Others use 3/4" conduit, others 1 1/2" PVC. Each module only needs TWO legs, at one end. The next module simply is attached daisy chain fashion. Club decides on size of end modules to allow a 90 degree turn from the mainline. If 0-54 radius is used then about a 2' 8" or 3' 0" wide unit would be used, different from the linear module of course. I was also asked bout an ideal track plan for a module, there is none. sometimes one person could set up a switching yard with another person so they would coordinate the location of joining tracks other than the two track mainline. Well i can babble on and one, but I hear PLENTY on this group and read in the (2) S mags bout PR, and an S modular layout is probably the best PR there is- but U gotta have the bodies. Since there are NASG standards for modules, assume there was a modular layout at the last NASG national meet, so folks could interchange ideas and run their favorite iron! Yeee Hah! Now how U all decide on code 72 vs 125 vs 145 vs flyer hirail vs gargraves is anybodys guess? Let alone DC vs AC power..... Mebbee there hasta be a AF club and a NASG scale club???? ah me.... L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6071	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Re: modules

LARSPAINTR@... wrote: > Well i can babble on and one, but I hear PLENTY on this group and read in the > (2) S mags bout PR, and an S modular layout is probably the best PR there is- > but U gotta have the bodies. > > Since there are NASG standards for modules, assume there was a modular > layout at the last NASG national meet, so folks could interchange ideas and > run their favorite iron! Yeee Hah! > > Now how U all decide on code 72 vs 125 vs 145 vs flyer hirail vs gargraves is > anybodys guess? We run scale, hirail and Flyer all very nicely on code 148 rail AM and handlaid track with mostly closing frog code 148 switches. Modules are built to NASG syandards which means rail height is 42" from floor regardless of rail size. When we connected a module with code 100 rail we merely used special bridge rails of code 100 soldered into a stepped piece of code 128. > Let alone DC vs AC power..... Power is easy with flyer transformers and conversion outpur boxes that switch between AC & DC > > Mebbee there hasta be a AF club and a NASG scale club???? ah me... Not necesarily, as we have proven. > > L. > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6072	From: Robert Morrison	Date: 11/25/1999
Subject: Modules

Hi all! My name is Bob and I'm an S-Gauger. Now you all say Hi Bob!, I'll wait. Anyhow I just recently started receiving this list and had a comment about the post on modules. Back in 1961 my father on his the way home from seeing me in the hospital nursery stopped at the local hardware store and bought me my first train set. 3 years later he built a semi permanent layout on a 5x4 foot table top. I still have the train, the table top and most of the original Plasicville buildings. About 3 years ago I rescued the table top from my parents basement and refurbished it to run my train on again as a project for a small train show that was in need of operating layouts. While its nothing more than a small village scene with an oval of "pike master" track, people at the show really seemed to like it and were curious as to was scale it was. The chug-chug sound of the engine and the real smoke were a hit with the kids young and old. Since that first show I have taken it out several times and added a whistling billboard and an operating brake man car. It amazes me with all the high tech stuff going on in other scales how much interest my little layout generates. I guess my point is you don't have to have a huge fancy layout to share our hobby and our scale. Just take a little time by yourself or with an S gauge friend and you to can build a great little portable layout. I think the more we share the better the chance we have of promoting the hobby and the scale. Thanks for sharing your list and ideas with me. Bob M. "Go ahead blow the horn, its your railroad!"

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6073	From: LARSPAINTR@aol.com	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: Re: popularizing S- tis the season!

Ah the grandkids at thanksgiving!!! Fun! Since they moved 325 miles away, may not see em at christmas, so Tgiving was ideal time to get em introduced to trains! Course they be girls, 4 and 7, but there may be hope. There was. Drug out a circle of trak and loco with 2 cars, they were awed! Let it run awhile while it smoked and choo choo-d and they used all their toy odds N ends around the circle. Ah I sez, time to get a couple 3' lengths of straight and make this bigger! So in 5 min we had a nice loop on the floor, two little girls going in and out of the oval with plastic cowboys and indians and whatever. Didnt ask if this was better N Barbie though....! Maybe this year they will get a family gift, a starter set rather than individual gifts? For those that missed it, they were PLAYING with this, not just gawking as an outsider at a model city...which is another story altogether- been there done that. When my son was about nine I decided to introduce him to trains, started with an HO layout which grew like topsy. Dealing with the little trucks and derailments was beyond him, it became dads not his. Kidz need hands on they can deal with. Wanna promote? Time to buy those S starter sets! Tis the season... L. PS-thanx for clarification on rail sizes. We R talking appearance here, not function. Still a bit mystified on the power source options, course the rail dont care if its AC or DC, just the locos. As long as they are either/or it would be OK, members dont needa run a loco, just bring a module!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6074	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: Re: modules

AC or DC???? On the Central Carolina Division, Atlantic Coast S Gaugers, we uaually have the outside loop powered with DC and the inside loop with AC. The DC power is supplied by a Chicago Model International, model #156 power pack. The pack has "Dial-A-Gauge", this variable control not only limits the output voltage but sets the waveform appropriate to the scale train being run. The dial has settings for N, HO and G. When operating newer can motor powered locos we usually put the setting for HO, but with AF traditional universal motors we crank up the dial to G, which give 18 voltsDC, and can really get the smoke units going. Remember AF locos operate on AC or DC and the newer AF compitable locos with can motors and electronic reverse units also operate on either AC or DC. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6075	From: Ross M Roberts Sandra L Roberts	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: Wiring

I have a Rail King (MTH) Scale Operating RR Crossing Signal , Item No. 30-11006. Can I operate that using a 1202 Electric Track Trip (R.F. Giardina)? How do I connect these two for S operation? The MTH instructions show a Lock-on and a Track Activation Device(TAD). The instructions are to connect Lock-on ground terminal to the Crossing black wire, Crossing red wire to TAD Normally Open terminal and Lock-on power to common terminal of the TAD. The 1202 instructions are: create an insulated section (fiber pins in common rail). 1202 track connections: one (black wire) inside insulated section and one (red wire) outside insulated section on common rail. White wire to accessory. 2nd wire from accessory to fixed voltage of transformer.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6076	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: updated module site

nice photos of an S modular layout with modules in various stages yet still functional, another advantage they have. Ever buddy dont need to have a fully developed item, but at least the track and its legs and stru cture has to be ready to use. Play now, pretty up later. go to http://members.xoom.com/northpenn_s/main.html and chedk it out! L.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6077	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, November 28, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6078	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: roberts and MTH accessories

MTH's TAD will work fine under Flyer track-I've been using them for a coupla years now. it is the perfect replacement for flyer's pressure activated trip, and a lot easier to set.get one of those puppies and run the crossing signal like this-black wire to base post.red wire to normally open TAD post. accessory (constant output post) of transformer to TAD common post. this TAD operates any flyer accessory with a pressure trip, like the crossing gate. if you've a need for a pressure trip, this one's for you-especially if you have an aversion to the OTHER perfectly good TAD, made by the L brand. try it with a k-line diesel refueling station-cool action for the kids to watch- john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6079	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Re: MTH

<<The MTH instructions show a Lock-on and a Track Activation Device(TAD). The instructions are to connect Lock-on ground terminal to the Crossing black wire, Crossing red wire to TAD Normally Open terminal and Lock-on power to common terminal of the TAD.>> The MTH TAD ($9.95) will work with AF track. We carry them, because we also sell several MTH items for use with S. Several of their signals are actually 1/60 scale, so they're only *slightly* oversized for S. MTH has also reproduced the silver and green 579-580 Gilbert diecast lampposts. Does this give you any hints about MTH's future intentions??????? Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6080	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Thanks, everybody on both lists

Hi Track Gang: I'm back from San Francisco and I had a great time, and so did my wife, thanks, in part, to the people on these lists. I tried to check my e-mail from an Internet cafe in San Francisco, but this MSN can't be accessed like other services. However, I did keep up with the list postings. Somehow, I was able to scan them more quickly. Could it have had anything to do with paying for Internet access by the hour?? I did meet up with Mark Boyd and his family. It was good to see there are wives who put up with even more train nonsense than my own tolerant spouse! Mark was in the process of disassembling his convention layout to make room for Thanksgiving guests. It was interesting to see the mix of gauges Mark collects, including some unusual Flyer signals. Ed Loizeaux is a character right out of Samuel Clemens. He has quietly built a remarkable S-gauge empire with the help of HO scalers who enthusiastically supply labor and talent just to get the chance to work on this larger scale. The layout is convertible to run NY Central or Southern Pacific equipment, though much of the gorgeous scenery and backgrounds model recognizable features of the Hudson River and Valley. Paul Schneider, another S gauger, was in the middle of moving to a new place across the Golden Gate bridge. I stopped by his apartment (it was around the corner from my hotel) and said hello, then got out of there fast before I was enlisted to carry boxes of trains down to the waiting moving van. (Hmmm, I could have just put them into my rental car . . . damn!) I spoke at length on the 'phone with Alan Ross whose suggestions helped make our trip to wine country a better experience. It was Alan who invited me to San Jose for an operating session on his club layout, but since our time was limited and it was a choice of that or Napa, he pushed for Napa and I was glad he did. We had a great time. By the way, the Napa Wine train only stops at a winery on mid-week luncheon runs, and then, at only one. Basically, it is a restaurant on rails, a dinner train, or, as my wife referred to it, "Meals on Wheels". Two Alco FA's are run as back to back A-A's pulling a long train of heavyweights with one lightweight car, a full length dome. Next time, we'll try it out. There is a nice train shop on 4th. Street in Oakland. Run a little like a co-op, it is several stores in one building. There is an HO guy, a repair shop, a couple of layouts, and a toy train shop that sells new and used as well as renting out table space to collectors who sell their own stuff. It can be found just a few blocks from Jack London Square, where Amtrak runs down tracks set in the street like trolley tracks, and the engineer double-toots the horn every few seconds until he passes through the fence back into controlled main-line territory. I've got pictures, I've got memories, and I've got heartburn from all the terrific restaurants. Thanks, everybody, for making this a great experience. We'll see you again on our next trip west, and if any of you come to the New York area, please allow me to return the favor. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6081	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Dept. 56 Buildings

Following on the Department 56 thread: Department 56 buildings, generally speaking (read as most of the time, not all of the time), fit in better with toy trains and hi-rail semi-realism. If you are a true scaler, these buildings will not have the look and feel of whitewashed wood or corrugated metal roofing. However, the D-56 people do a helluva brick face, even though the mortar joints might be thick enough to stick your nose in. Before you get your nose all out of joint as a defender of D-56, let me say that, with properly scaled accessories (D-56 people are two stories tall, and their cars all appear to be made of glass), D-56 houses can look great. If you have enough of them to make a downtown shopping district or a sizeable residential neighborhood, they gather beauty in clusters. They break out into three basic sizes and three manufacturing techniques. Snow Village houses are the largest. They seem to scale out (roughly) to O gauge use. Fortunoff's, a large Long Island retailer has Christmas layouts set up with Lionel trains and the SV houses look right at home. As an aside, please note that I have no compunctions about using the words "Lionel", and "O gauge". Referring to the world's most revered and long-lived manufacturer of the trains that kept this hobby alive and prosperous for 100 years, on and off, as "L_____" or "the L word" and defining 1/48 scale toy trains as 0 (zero) gauge is something I find disrespectful, sophomoric and beneath our dignity as the representatives of this small, but worthy, minority scale. I will sometimes refer to Lionel with the shorthand of Big L, but I am past my eight-year old selfs feelings that my scale is better than your scale. I, for one, am glad for the existence of Lionel, despite the worst of their faults. On this point, I will ignore all flames. Snow Village houses are made of "ceramic" which is a misnomer referring to them being cast in a mold from slip, a clay based liquified material which is cured by high heat in a kiln. They are painted and glazed and most have a shiny finish. D-56 has been experimenting with other finishes and some new pieces have achieved a striking realism. The company has also been downsizing, not it's personnel, but it's whole SV line, with the result that newer pieces have been approaching 1/64 scale. Houses made of slip ceramic are opaque, so they will not glow all over. Interior light will only emanate from windows. Christmas in the City and the huge Dicken's Village are the closest pieces to 1/64. In fact, doors on some measure 32" wide by 6'8" tall, the exact dimensions of the bulk of the doors in my home. Dicken's is a British period series, though many buildings would be at home in a 20th. century setting. Many of this series take the shape of Dickensian story locations, and as such, might be unsuitable. Christmas in the City is a 1930's-40's cosmopolitan center, possibly New York. It looks FABULOUS with streamliners. Be aware that all villages will cross the scale line heavily when offering a big building. The Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC could display my entire house, basement and all, in a small side wing on one floor. The D-56 version is just a little larger than a two story colonial. The City Hall isn't a whole lot bigger and neither is Hollydale's Department store. Huge cathedrals are no bigger than country churches. If your need is to remain scale, you could avoid large municipal and business buildings and stick with more accurately scaled neighborhood structures. The non-Snow Village pieces are made of porcelain. This is a type of ceramic, too, but it is not made of slip. It is also fired in a kiln and often warps, creating a higher failure rate. The resulting building has an element of transparency, thus the glow. This can be controlled by careful placement of grain-of-wheat bulbs instead of a single 120 vac white Christmas bulb. Porcelain holds finer details and the colors are more subtle, though the inherent warpage on larger pieces can be troubling. Alpine Village is sized with Christmas City and Dickens, but is European looking. Some pieces will work well in an American setting if well chosen. New England Village is scaled a little smaller, but can be quite acceptable since most buildings are small houses and businesses and there are no tall or imposing structures. North Pole is a Santa fantasy. I am using mine as a theme park. All the buildings are sized for elves. The Disney series was cancelled, but the existing pieces will work as administration and souvenir buildings for the Santa theme park! D-56 has a completely new series that does not have built in snow on the rooftops. In fact, seasonal accessories are sold for them. These new lavish homes are extremely well detailed and colored, and for me, are just too scale. Look for Season's Bay on the D-56 website, http://www.department56.com . These buildings are pricey but very nice. They will mix well with scale buildings and I believe that they are made of a material which will not glow with internal light. The construction reminds me of resin, though I understand that it is indeed a porcelain. The "First Edition" pieces have retired this year, though the exact pieces are actually still in production. The first edition was a collectors only, gold trim edition. That's all I've got for now. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6082	From: Don Thompson	Date: 11/26/1999
Subject: Re: SHS 2000 catalog

Dear members, Our S Helper Service Inc. 2000 catalog is now ready. Our catalog is bigger than last years' featuring 48 pages in full color. A new section has been added including 6 layouts designed by Jim Zare using our new S Trax System. We have added more photos by Bob Werre. Graphic designer Guy Gola has updated the format improving the overall page layout and composition. Web master Jon Marinello has completed the 2000 catalog ordering form and these can be obtained at: http://www.showcaseline.com/ordercatalog.html This years' price is $3.00 with free shipping and handling. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 New Rebuilts and 3 Car Sets are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6083	From: plotnick	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Toy Story 2

Just took the kids to see Toy Story 2. Great film and lost of fun. Relevancy to this group is its message that toys are for kids and to be played with, not for adults to stick on a shelf.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6084	From: plotnick	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Toy Story 2

Just took the kids to see Toy Story 2. Great film and lots of fun. Relevancy to this group is its message that toys are for kids and to be played with, not for adults to stick on a shelf.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6085	From: Richard McClary	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Re: Toy Story 2

plotnick wrote: > > Just took the kids to see Toy Story 2. Great film and lost of fun. Relevancy > to this group is its message that toys are for kids and to be played with, not > for adults to stick on a shelf. > Got that right! I just ordered a bunch of repro cast iron and tin toys for myself and my (adult) daughters. Know what I plan to do? I'm gonna stinkin' PLAY with them!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6086	From: LARSPAINTR@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/27/1999
Subject: Ho Ho HO - O vs. S , and the winner is.....

Well its been a long 11 or so months coming, but I have gone to Oooooooooh ga, along with my old HO as a backup. The items bought at train shows recently have been O. And the floor layout for the grandkids was too... Doubt there is an exit interview, but with a dozen folks on this list being quite helpful thought maybe SOMEONE may want to know why one leaves the only 2 rail tinplate based train hobby: A. Lack of reasonably priced new motive power, esp small steam. B. Lack of availability of items advertised. "Its coming soon, next summer maybe, its on the next boat, etc etc." C. Lack of service and followup of small businesses doing mail sales of S items, some who are on this list. The exception was such as AM, SHS, and Gargraves but these are not one man shows. D. Inability to shop at train shows and hobby shops, be it me for myself or others for gift items, and just to browse- there ARE real goods for sale out there. E. The extensive range of all items available in O. I was amazed and still am, even to Marx repros, and not just one set but several sets and many cars, let alone O ga operating accessories and cars. Even bot a flat car with a Disney (operating) submarine on it- grandkids U no. Nothing in S for grandkids except maybe a Merry Christmas boxcar? So without further editorial, I will leave this experiment in nostalgia. Sold my Stockyard set and mailcar at regional toy show today, along with a few Nylint and Tonkas that I would never will have time to restore. Most likely the Atlantics will go to Salvation Army along with odds N ends of trak. Best wishes, happy holidays, etc L. ( Is that last L symbolic of Big L ???? A year ago I wooda never gueSSed.... ) and for those curious what has replaced it all- a lot of Gargraves sectional and flex track, a 10 yr old Weaver road diesel that runs like a watch, a cheapo 20 yr old Lionel beginner loco with smoke and primative choo choo, a prewar grey Lionel streamliner, and on order a K Line Pacific set with full sound, for beginnings. Let alone O ga stockyard set, Disney Submarine car for the kids, etc etc etc etc. And it all works A-1 outta the box be it new or used. Yeee hah!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6087	From: bob walsh	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Ho Ho HO - O vs. S , and the winner is.....

Anyone who grows tired of their Flyer and who would prefer O-27 toy trains, just send your AF to me. I would gladly take them in and make them feel welcome! I just can't understand how any one could possible prefer O-27 to S. I guess that some people like the toy like, stubby features of most O-27 products. Or I suppose if you had a thing for Disney characters to be emblazoned on your trains that you might prefer O-27. I could possible understand liking the big buck near scale O gauge items, but how can you look at that 3 rail track and even think that it has any resemblance to reality? I am quite happy with my AF trains, especially the steam engines. I would put up my Northern or O-8-0 switcher against any steam engine made by K-Line. Most Flyer Pacific's and Atlantic's can be had for peanuts, and they are better than most of the steam made for O-27. I guess that if you had no attachment to your Flyer, that it would be possible for some people to switch. I have some pretty strong feelings towards my AF. When I was 5 years old I received my first AF, an American Flyer All Aboard train set. It turned out to be the last Christmas gift that I would receive from my dad, he died later that same day. I still have the Casey Jones engine and pikemaster cars and they mean more to me than any other Flyer or Lionel that I own. So, I guess you could say that I could never get rid of my Flyer. I picked up some of the Bachmann On30 freight cars to convert to standard S. The quality and details are just awesome. The flat car, gondola, and box car should only require changing the trucks over to S hi-rail. The caboose I am going to lower and change to a 4 wheel bobber type. I was able to pick up the cars for less than $10 each! Most shops seem to be out of the box cars and gondolas already. Robert. __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6088	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: o27 vs. S

I started to make a comparison of the o27 junk vs. THE AMERICAN FLYER TRAINS and realized that the lionel junk doesn't compare to the Flyer trains. Heck, it doesn't compare to the American Models or S-Helper Service or any s-gauge for that matter. And as far as the fair weather lars goes, I didn't like reading his goofy postings anyway. I do think a few action cars for the hi-rail s-gaugers would be really great for getting kids involved with s-gauge trains though! Something similar to the aquqrium car or the cars with the heads bobbing up and down would be great for me, I mean for the kids. Maybe Don or Ron have thought of trying this ,maybe they haven't, but I really do feel that some action cars would be great.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6089	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: kids and gauges

I'm sorry to see someone go over to "O" gauge. I do understand the frustration of finding "S" gauge stuff and at a affordable price. I find that there is a compelling argument to making the change. But in my mind "S" is the only realistic gauge. When I first started my children in trains, I started them in HO. The reason at that time was it is so inexpensive and everyone and there brother carry the stuff. But my childeren realy showed no interests in the hobby. So I sold the set off. We would go to train meets and shows and would see the HO people everywhere and the Lionel guys. Then I found some American Flyer, and set up a board real quick, and me and my children found a hobby that we enjoy together. I had American Flyer as a child and spent a uncountable amount of time running those trains. Now me and my kids spend hours on our trains together. I buy Lionel trains then resale them to dealers and sometime's trade for flyer stuff. Never once did my kids want to run those big,clumsy, bulky, cheap looking Ohhhhhhhhhhh's. Yes it is frustrating to go to meets and see nothing but Ho and N's. But the realism of the American Flyer beats them all hands down. American Flyer is the only trains to me and my kids.We will allways have that bond between us,even after death.I hope they will countinue with that tradition. Happy Railroading Bob Wight.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6090	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: FAQ about Diesels

I am looking for FAQ material about Flyer diesels. Here are some of the questions I often here. Is there anyway to get my flyer diesel to run better? Can I re-moter my diesel? Which are the best running diesels? The worst? How do I tune up my diesel? What I am looking for is something for the FAQ page of S-Trains. Diagrams and photographs are acceptable. You can send them directly to me. Thanks. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6091	From: MWelbornjr@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Wanted!!!

I am looking for the following in MINT condition: 16 - #26693 Track Locks in Envelope #26690 TRack Terminal Thanks, Michael W. P.S. Has anyone received a current list from John Heck.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6092	From: Scott Brown	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Gilbert Reproductions

This past friday I was visiting my father in Malvern, Pa. and thought I'd stop by to see what was going on at Gilbert Reproductions/Tom's Trains/Triple S Supplies. I had a very nice time meeting the owner- Tom Seccia. Tom has a nice store with an in-progress S layout being built in the front window. Tom was very knowledgeable and helpful and had most of the parts I needed. He even had some I didn't know I needed. :-) The phone rang quite often while I was there, so business seems to be good. I did see a few of his reproductions and was impressed with the detail and appearance. I'm not an old hand like many of you, so can't tell you about how it matches the original. But they looked great to me. I enjoyed my time in his store and will definitely do business with him again. If you are looking for someone in the "S" business to support, I would recommend Tom. Scott Brown sbrown56@... Tom's Trains/Triple "S" Supplies 288 Lancaster Ave. Malvern, Pa. 19355 1-610-725-0332 www.webvalley.com/sss.trains

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6093	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Re: LARSPAINTER gpong to "O"

In a message dated 11/28/99 3:25:58 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: > > ADIOS, GOOD-BYE, TA, ...........Steve Blackburn RMHR

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6094	From: Marty Cook	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: S-Trains Digest Number 446, Message 9

Chris, Boy, I should'a seen that train comin'! BUT... I urge you to check out Tinplate Trains Digest post# 2257 from Jim Riccioli, which details in blatent black-and-white that the smaller gauges ain't "dollar wise", which was the whole reason for my being "teased" by the smaller two rail stuff. The only "plunge" I ever took in the two rail direction was two rail O-Gauge Kusan-Auburn. O-Gauge. S is too expensive. I hear what's going on over here on this list with prices. Thanks, but I think I'll stick with three rail O-gauge. But, you got me on that last part in which I talk about forever trying to hide that center rail! Go ahead and gloat! Even if I needed that "forced perspective" look, I'd still use 3/16" O-gauge before I'd use HO or S. I have some neat old Flyer pre-war stuff that fits the bill. Flyer. At the very least, I made that concession, eh? By the way, before anyone asks, "then, why do you subscribe to the S-Trains list?", let me say that I just love trains and I want to know as much as I can about them. The fact that I do not nor ever have owned any S-gauge is not sufficient reason to avoid learning about S-gauge. I even read "S-Gaugen". I wish someone (if not Lionel, then *someone*!) would pick up the Flyer flag and maximize it's possibilities. Then, S-gauge prices might be more in line, and maybe the future really *could* be in S. But, S and O or HO are all apples and oranges. To really understand this post, a reader would have to have been apprised of my original post on the Tinplate Trains Digest, as well as the lengthy post by Jim Riccioli, to which I allude in the first paragraph herein. Marty Cook TCA# 95-41425 ____________________________________________________________ Tinplate Trinas Digest post# 2278 S-Trains Digest Number 446, Message 9 11:58 AM Wed 24 Nov Subject: So good, I cross posted this to the S-List From: busy-boy Marty Cook wrote on the TCA mail list: >Boy, for about the umpteenth time, I was looking at some HO stuff >the other day and... geez, am I jealous of the prices the prices >the HO folks enjoy! Gee Marty, what a nice argument for "S" Gauge. Come all the way out of the closet. Admit it to the world. Time's a-wasting. Tick-Tock goes David's watch. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6095	From: Marty Cook	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: S-Trains Digest Number 447, Message 3

John, Boy, did you say a mouthful! I absolutely agree! Marty Cook TCA# 95-41425 ____________________________________________________________ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 10:12:30 EST From: Toyguy5344@... Subject: kids`n' trains i feel that there is a type of kid, not a type of toy train, that gets the bug.-john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6096	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Re: Ho Ho HO - O vs. S , and the winner is.....

In a message dated 11/27/99 9:14:46 PM, LARSPAINTR@... writes: << Doubt there is an exit interview, but with a dozen folks on this list being quite helpful thought maybe SOMEONE may want to know why one leaves the only 2 rail tinplate based train hobby: >> Well, S has always been the gauge for the more discerning person. This was true even when the A. C. Gilbert Co. was alive and well. There will always be that extra challenge to collecting and operating the stuff, but then that's the thrill of the chase. BTW, it is possible to mix S and O in the tinplate world, particularly with one of the less noxious looking O gauge track systems, so there is no imperative for one to bail out if one wishes to 'do some O'. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6097	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Re: Wanted!!!

In a message dated 11/28/99 10:31:42 AM, MWelbornjr@... writes: << Michael W. P.S. Has anyone received a current list from John Heck. >> To my knowledge, John has not sent out a list in about a year. Give him a call to see what he has. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6098	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, November 28, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6099	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: Modules

Bob, Your post was refreshing. We have an ongoing discussion in our club that more modules and a bigger layout is better. My view is that quality is better, but it's a hard sell. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6100	From: aztecfan@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/28/1999
Subject: LIONEL PARTS

I USED TO OWN A NUMBER OF STUDEBAKER CARS. WE HAD A LIST OF PARTS FROM OTHER CARS THAT COULD BE USED ON STUDEBAKERS. WE ALL HAVE A NUMBER OF DAMAGED PLASTIC ATLANTIC AND PACIFIC STEEM ENGINES. I THINK WE CAN FIND NEW LIONEL PARTS THAT COULD BE USED TO CHANGE THE LOOK OF DAMAGED af ENGINES. I HAVE A COW CATCHER PART THAT I AM TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO PUT ON A af ENGINE. I HAVE REMOVED THE TIRE OF ONE OF THOSE BATTERY TRAINS WHEELS. THIS WOULD GIVE A DIFFERENT LOOK BECAUSE THE WHITE WALL WOULD NOT BE USED WHEN MOUNTING THE AF TIRE. I WAS TOLD THAT I COULD USE MODELING CLAY TO MAKE A FAST MOLD AND I WILL TRY THIS USING EXPOXY NEEDLE TYPE FROM K MART. I THINK I CAN DO ANOTHER WHEEL AND ADD WEIGHTS. WHAT WE NEED IS USABLE VALVE GEAR. I WILL START A DATA BASE OF NEW LIONEL AND MARX PARTS THAT FIX S GAUGE. I HAVE WANTED TO FIND A K LINE 1/64 STEEM ENGINE AND DETAIL. PLEASE CONTRACT ME WITH PARTS FROM ANY MANUFATURE THAT CAN BE USED TO DETAIL AF ENGINES AND I WILL SHARE THIS INFORMATION. I HAVE STRIPED A 283 PACIFIC AND HAVE CUT OUT THE FRONT STEPS, ADDED BRASS CRAFT STUDS TO THE STEEM CHESTS. WILL RUN WIRE AS PIPING WERE THE OLD DETAILS WERE. I AM LOOKING TO ADD BRASS PARTS FROM S MANUFACTERS. I HATE TO READ ABOUT CONVERSIONS WITH OUT HAVE A NEW PARTS SOURCE, NOT SOMETHING YOU FOUND AND PUT IN A BOX 20 YEARS AGO. JIM SLEETH

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6101	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Lionel parts

Jim: Lionel parts are pretty crude and oversize for s gauge use. S Scale Loco and Supply has steam loco detail parts that can be quite useful.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6102	From: thompson@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxxxxxxxxx	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Lionel New Haven electric

Hi, I've always loved the AF New Haven EP-5 but never owned one. The original AF's are out of my price range (for something i run once a year) but i have noticed 3 of the Lionel versions on ebay. 2 look like they may go for under $200. Questions... are these versions any good? And what would be a good price for a "new in box"? Thanks, kbt

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6103	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Triple S

Does Tom at Triple S Supplies have an e-mail address or website? Does anyone have the e-mail address? Wayne Broadhead

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6104	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Triple S Supplies

Tom Seccia's website is: http://www.webvalley.com/sss_trains/prices/htm Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6105	From: busy-boy	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Lars Goes Back to Mars, Chris Finds Some Cheap Cars

Dear One-Sixtyfourthiacs: Perhaps it was the Strain, not the train, that took Lars out of here. Possibly it was that post about made up words and cutesy quasi-English grammar that hit too close to home. :-> Lars complaint about a lack of equipment would certainly get an argument from my wife, who feels that there just may be too much stuff made in S. Wasn't it Lars who spent a month tuning up one old Atlantic? He had very little gear to speak of. Now, when he lists his cache of O gauge equipment, it again sounds like a hodge-podge of available junk. The man is now posting to the TCA list. I believe that this is one of those one-off situations where we have met someone who touched down briefly here, and now he has moved on. Some people do prefer 027. Some people like the green Life-Savers. And the world spins on. Target Stores. I say Tar-Get, you say Tar-Jay. However you say it, Target is selling name brand 1/64 cars and heavy equipment, army vehicles and tractor-trailers, re-packaged in blue boxes under the name "Kool-Toyz". I bought cranes, dozers, earth movers, and a CONTAINER LIFT with accompanying truck and extra container. Also a box of fifty Hot Wheels cars in common street dress, NOT racers and hot rods. Each box was $10. No, you are not reading a typo, 'cause I don't make any! BIG :-) Get there now, while they still have stock. (If you wanted Pokemon, forget it, that aisle looks like it exploded.) The Hot Wheels S gauge train was there. I suppose if you wanted a cheap copy of Lionels Phantom loco, there it is. It is a mixed up, weird looking set that has nothing to do with railroading. Of course, this opinion is only one of many I hold. Ask to see the whole set. Gotta' Get 'Em All! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6106	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Cleveland Browns - way off topic

I was in Columbus over Thanksgiving and got the impression the Browns were doing ok. Now, there is the matter of the Kansas City Chiefs. I still people that the only CHIEFS that Kansas City every had that were worth anything were the ones that went through Union Station.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6107	From: Bristol, Kirk	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Drum Loader Review

I just picked up the new Lionel drum loader from Train Express in Indianapolis this last Friday. I thought I'd pass along my impressions. First of all, it's certainly a neat accessory in the action that it provides, nothing is new there. I unpacked it and got it running on our kitchen table and it was immediately and unanimously declared our most fun accessory by my three children present. We'll see how their interest holds over the long run though. The operation is very reliable and smooth, IF you get the voltage just right. It took a little tweaking to get the voltage adjusted to where it operated very repeatedly. Even then we still had some spilled drums. Note of caution here, watch for drums that fall in front of the forklift (drumlift?). If the forklift jams the drum into one of its stops you can throw the mechanism off a bit. For example, we dropped a drum in front of the stop where the forklift dumps into a car, and the forklift tried to push it out of the way with all of its might. From then on the forklift would stop short of where it was supposed to dump, something in the mechanism got misaligned. My fix was to grab the forklift and force it against the stop while it was running to get it set right again. It worked, but we're going to keep an eye on it while it's running in the future to make sure any dropped drums stay out of its path. I also found out that you have to get this thing pretty close to the track to get it to dump into a gondola. I wish I had installed in on a siding rather than a mainline, but on my small layout everything is a mainline. Trainmaster Command Control worked fine. I just hooked it up to an SC-1 and had it running. I also have the provided switch wired in, but prefer to use the TMCC control. I can't compare to the original AF version or later Lionel re-issues, but I do know that this version definitely gets an A+ from me and my family for quiet, reliable, and fun operation, the very reasonable cost is icing on the cake! Kirk Bristol TCA #99-50566 kbristol@... kbristol@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6108	From: The Reis's	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Grades

I have grades up to a little over 5 degrees (about 5 inches over 8 feet) on my layout without much problem but it is really too steep. I can pull about 10 cars with a good 322. I can pull about 15 cars with a pair of AM GP35's. The biggest problem with grades that steep is that the grease from the engines gets on the track and the engine spins. A friend with a huge layout always said to have the grade on the straight and keep it flat in the curves Steep curved grades can cause many problems with couplers, extra drag causing derailments, etc. eric reis kenmore, wa. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Rosiep3@...> To: <S-Scale@onelist.com> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 1999 4:55 PM Subject: [S-Scale] Grades > From: Rosiep3@... > > As a relative new comer to the list, I'm wondering if there has ever been any > discussion about grades. I'm about to build a new layout with all old Am Fly > Steamers. The longest run I can squeeze out is about fifteen feet in one > direction. What's the steepest grade I can use and still have the old girls > pull something other than themselves, and yet have it look right to the eye > too? I have no pull-mor wheels. The guy headed for Kosovo - my opinion - a > BSer. > > Andy Betts, Wheat Ridge, CO > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6109	From: The Reis's	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: package payments

I have sold about 15 items in the last year and sent them out mostly to people on this list. I just hold the item until the check comes through unless I know the person personally. I haven't had a problem or an objection to this. It would be interesting to know what others do. I usually note that I am in TCA, NASG, etc for 15 years, etc. I don't usually hold the package for the check to clear. The only time I have been stiffed was on a check for a train set for $35 at a local swap meet to a young family with 2 kids who went to the trouble of having the check cancelled and then ignoring my calls and offer to drive out there and get the trains back for their cancelled check. I do keep that check posted at swap meets hoping they will return. The interesting new thing is the UPS on-line tracking is free on their website. www.ups.com You get a tracking number when you send your package and it is traced every step of the way. I sent one to Ohio that was read 12 times with date and time. It works great and calms buyers when it isn't there immediately. My problem with COD is I have to pay for the shipping up front. If the other person changes his mind or rejects it I have to pay shipping both ways just to get the package back. eric reis kenmore, wa. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Roberts <wrobwrob@...> To: <S-Scale@onelist.com> Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 9:54 PM Subject: [S-Scale] Re: Xxxxxx Xxxxx > From: "Bill Roberts" <wrobwrob@...> > > What is the preferred way these days to buy something from or sell something > to someone you don't know? Is COD used by anyone these days? > > Is it still possible to send a package COD with inspection privileges? The > buyer gets to open the box at the post office, check it out, then pay. > > - Bill Roberts > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6110	From: Jim and Vicky	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Passager car paper insert / paint

What is the type of paper used? What weight? The color is a off white / yellowed! Maybe due to age? no idea what original was. Two sheets of different sizes / configuration. Source? Where to get? Paint as close to the original that A.C. Gilbert used. The requirements satin silver. Quantity to repaint (5) 960--963 cars. orange strip (One) 963 chestnut strip (2) 960 and (one) each 961--963's ALL PAINT MUST BE OF THE SAME DYE LOT depending on color.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6111	From: Ross M Roberts Sandra L Roberts	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: 969 Rocket Launcher

I have a 969 Rocket Launcher flatcar. It operates intermittently. The spring action is strong when it is released. The problem seems to be generating enough pull to overcome the resistance in the release mechanism (or possibly reducing the resistance). Can you tell me what to look for?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6112	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Triple S Website

My appologies for the listing I put up for Triple S. I copied their address exactly off the address line for their site, and when my message came back to me through S-Trains I clicked on it and it didn't work. What I can suggest this time is that you go to Paul Yorke's S-Trains site. On it he has a link to Triple S, which is how I got there. Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6113	From: Jarcho	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: grades

I use Flyer trestles and have no problems having curves on grades. The key is to raise the outer side of the trestle about 1/16" by placing a piece of cardboard under one foot. Perhaps a similar superelevating technique can be adapted if you are not using trestles. The only thing that causes problems is an s curve-two curved sections , curving in opposite directions, joined together. This will not work. It is necessary to insert a straight section between them. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6114	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/29/1999
Subject: Re: Passager car paper insert / paint

Well, I never saw the original posting, but based on Jim's responses, think I can guess the questions. The paper was a cheap paper, that quickly turned slightly yellow, if it wasn't before. I use a 20lb tan colored paper to replicate it. Just went to a local print shop and they had some that matched. For the streamlined passenger cars I added a blue paper over the original. The blue was what the laundry came in, very thin actually. This gives the cars a bluish tint that I think more correctly approximates the tinted windows these cars had in real life, and also the fluorescent lighting they used. I did this when I was a kid, after watching the Shasta Daylight go up the canyon in my backyard and realizing that my trains didn't look like that! Paint. Hmm, the main silver bodies match most satin silver paints (avoid the aluminum ones, too many metal particles, and too thick.). If you are painting the whole train, you will never see any slight color differences. I don't have any hints on the band color, though. Also, don't know if you have an air brush, or will be forced to use spray can stuff. You have many more options on paint types and colors with the air brush. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6115	From: Craig S. O'Connell	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Triple S Website

There was an inquiry as to the location of the Triple S website. The website for Triple S, like other S gauge suppliers, is on the NASG page of links. The Triple S site is at: http://www.webvalley.com/sss_trains The NASG website is: http://trainweb.com/nasg/ Craig S. O'Connell NASG Website Director

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6116	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Lionel New Haven electric

Keith Thompson wrote: > I've always loved the AF New Haven EP-5 but never > owned one. The original AF's are out of my price > range (for something i run once a year) but i have > noticed 3 of the Lionel versions on ebay. 2 look > like they may go for under $200. Questions... are these > versions any good? And what would be a good pricefor a "new in box"? Hi Keith, I've got three of these guys (2 New Haven's and 1 Milwaukee) and all run pretty good: smooth, relatively quiet, good pullers. Although the one NH I picked up second hand did have a transistor shorting to it's heat sink resulting in forward-neutral-neutral operation. After adjusting the insulator it ran fine. My only real complaint is the lettering on one side is incorrectly placed. The "New Haven" should be placed towards the engineer's door on both sides, rather than the way Lionel placed it. So I only look at the correct side. Gilbert placed the lettering correctly. It's always the luck of the draw when it comes to how well LTI/Flyer runs, so my experience with the EP-5's may not be typical. But if you can pick one up for $200 or under, it seems like a good deal (at least to me). Be seeing you, Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6117	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: 969 Rocket Launcher

Some things to look for: 1- make sure the metal wheels are on the rail that is hooked to the base post. 1a- make sure the contact between the truck shoe and the metal actuator rail is impecably clean and you're getting a solid 15V or better from the fixed voltage post on the transformer. 2- make sure the rocket is free in the tube. On some repros I've had to bore out the tube a little to adequately clear the center post in the launcher. 3- make sure the linkage that releases the rocket is really free. You test this with the rocket out and spring uncocked. If it binds anywhere at all that's trouble and the bind must be freed up. It's easier to work on this if you remove the center plunger via the nut under the car. 4- try a tiny dab of grease on the area where the release lever contacts the washer at the top of the plunger. This is pretty much a last resort suggestion. That's all I can think of at the moment but there are probably other suggestions from the list. Ross M Roberts Sandra L Roberts wrote: > > I have a 969 Rocket Launcher flatcar. It operates intermittently. The spring action is strong when it is released. The problem seems to be generating enough pull to overcome the resistance in the release mechanism (or possibly reducing the resistance). Can you tell me what to look for? > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6118	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 451

Roger, The web address for Tom's website does not work, do you have another? Wayne Broadhead S-Trains@onelist.com wrote: > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 13 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. Lionel New Haven electric > From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun) > 2. Triple S > From: Wayne Broadhead <wayne@...> > 3. Triple S Supplies > From: Roger Delthony <delthony@...> > 4. Lars Goes Back to Mars, Chris Finds Some Cheap Cars > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > 5. Re: [S-Scale] Cleveland Browns - way off topic > From: ironhors@... > 6. Drum Loader Review > From: "Bristol, Kirk" <KBristol@...> > 7. Re: [S-Scale] Grades > From: "The Reis's" <finnhill@...> > 8. Re: [S-Scale] Re: package payments > From: "The Reis's" <finnhill@...> > 9. Passager car paper insert / paint > From: Jim and Vicky <jimpatt@...> > 10. 969 Rocket Launcher > From: "Ross M Roberts Sandra L Roberts" <roberts2@...> > 11. Triple S Website > From: Roger Delthony <delthony@...> > 12. grades > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > 13. Re: Passager car paper insert / paint > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 11:09:07 -0500 > From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun) > Subject: Lionel New Haven electric > > Hi, > > I've always loved the AF New Haven EP-5 but never > owned one. The original AF's are out of my price > range (for something i run once a year) but i have > noticed 3 of the Lionel versions on ebay. 2 look > like they may go for under $200. Questions... are these > versions any good? And what would be a good price > for a "new in box"? > > Thanks, > kbt > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 09:31:13 -0700 > From: Wayne Broadhead <wayne@...> > Subject: Triple S > > Does Tom at Triple S Supplies have an e-mail address or website? Does > anyone have the e-mail address? > > Wayne Broadhead > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 11:52:55 -0500 > From: Roger Delthony <delthony@...> > Subject: Triple S Supplies > > Tom Seccia's website is: http://www.webvalley.com/sss_trains/prices/htm > > Roger > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 13:47:19 -0500 > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > Subject: Lars Goes Back to Mars, Chris Finds Some Cheap Cars > > Dear One-Sixtyfourthiacs: > > Perhaps it was the Strain, not the train, that took Lars out of here. > Possibly it was that post about made up words and cutesy quasi-English > grammar that hit too close to home. :-> Lars complaint about a lack of > equipment would certainly get an argument from my wife, who feels that there > just may be too much stuff made in S. Wasn't it Lars who spent a month > tuning up one old Atlantic? He had very little gear to speak of. Now, when > he lists his cache of O gauge equipment, it again sounds like a hodge-podge > of available junk. The man is now posting to the TCA list. I believe that > this is one of those one-off situations where we have met someone who > touched down briefly here, and now he has moved on. Some people do prefer > 027. Some people like the green Life-Savers. And the world spins on. > > Target Stores. I say Tar-Get, you say Tar-Jay. However you say it, Target > is selling name brand 1/64 cars and heavy equipment, army vehicles and > tractor-trailers, re-packaged in blue boxes under the name "Kool-Toyz". I > bought cranes, dozers, earth movers, and a CONTAINER LIFT with accompanying > truck and extra container. Also a box of fifty Hot Wheels cars in common > street dress, NOT racers and hot rods. Each box was $10. No, you are not > reading a typo, 'cause I don't make any! BIG :-) Get there now, while they > still have stock. (If you wanted Pokemon, forget it, that aisle looks like > it exploded.) > > The Hot Wheels S gauge train was there. I suppose if you wanted a cheap > copy of Lionels Phantom loco, there it is. It is a mixed up, weird looking > set that has nothing to do with railroading. Of course, this opinion is > only one of many I hold. Ask to see the whole set. > > Gotta' Get 'Em All! > Chris Zizzo > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:33:19 -0600 > From: ironhors@... > Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Cleveland Browns - way off topic > > I was in Columbus over Thanksgiving and got the impression the Browns were doing > ok. Now, there is the matter of the Kansas City Chiefs. I still people that the > only CHIEFS that Kansas City every had that were worth anything were the ones that > went through Union Station. > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 6 > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 14:05:38 -0500 > From: "Bristol, Kirk" <KBristol@...> > Subject: Drum Loader Review > > I just picked up the new Lionel drum loader from Train Express in > Indianapolis this last Friday. I thought I'd pass along my impressions. > > First of all, it's certainly a neat accessory in the action that it > provides, nothing is new there. I unpacked it and got it running on our > kitchen table and it was immediately and unanimously declared our most fun > accessory by my three children present. We'll see how their interest holds > over the long run though. > > The operation is very reliable and smooth, IF you get the voltage just > right. It took a little tweaking to get the voltage adjusted to where it > operated very repeatedly. Even then we still had some spilled drums. Note > of caution here, watch for drums that fall in front of the forklift > (drumlift?). If the forklift jams the drum into one of its stops you can > throw the mechanism off a bit. For example, we dropped a drum in front of > the stop where the forklift dumps into a car, and the forklift tried to push > it out of the way with all of its might. From then on the forklift would > stop short of where it was supposed to dump, something in the mechanism got > misaligned. My fix was to grab the forklift and force it against the stop > while it was running to get it set right again. It worked, but we're going > to keep an eye on it while it's running in the future to make sure any > dropped drums stay out of its path. > > I also found out that you have to get this thing pretty close to the track > to get it to dump into a gondola. I wish I had installed in on a siding > rather than a mainline, but on my small layout everything is a mainline. > > Trainmaster Command Control worked fine. I just hooked it up to an SC-1 and > had it running. I also have the provided switch wired in, but prefer to use > the TMCC control. > > I can't compare to the original AF version or later Lionel re-issues, but I > do know that this version definitely gets an A+ from me and my family for > quiet, reliable, and fun operation, the very reasonable cost is icing on the > cake! > > Kirk Bristol > TCA #99-50566 > kbristol@... > kbristol@... > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 7 > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:12:48 -0800 > From: "The Reis's" <finnhill@...> > Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Grades > > I have grades up to a little over 5 degrees (about 5 inches over 8 feet) on > my layout without much problem but it is really too steep. I can pull about > 10 cars with a good 322. I can pull about 15 cars with a pair of AM > GP35's. The biggest problem with grades that steep is that the grease from > the engines gets on the track and the engine spins. A friend with a huge > layout always said to have the grade on the straight and keep it flat in the > curves Steep curved grades can cause many problems with couplers, extra > drag causing derailments, etc. > > eric reis > kenmore, wa. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Rosiep3@...> > To: <S-Scale@onelist.com> > Sent: Sunday, November 28, 1999 4:55 PM > Subject: [S-Scale] Grades > > > From: Rosiep3@... > > > > As a relative new comer to the list, I'm wondering if there has ever been > any > > discussion about grades. I'm about to build a new layout with all old Am > Fly > > Steamers. The longest run I can squeeze out is about fifteen feet in one > > direction. What's the steepest grade I can use and still have the old > girls > > pull something other than themselves, and yet have it look right to the > eye > > too? I have no pull-mor wheels. The guy headed for Kosovo - my opinion - > a > > BSer. > > > > Andy Betts, Wheat Ridge, CO > > > > > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 8 > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 18:33:58 -0800 > From: "The Reis's" <finnhill@...> > Subject: Re: [S-Scale] Re: package payments > > I have sold about 15 items in the last year and sent them out mostly to > people on this list. I just hold the item until the check comes through > unless I know the person personally. I haven't had a problem or an > objection to this. It would be interesting to know what others do. I > usually note that I am in TCA, NASG, etc for 15 years, etc. I don't usually > hold the package for the check to clear. > > The only time I have been stiffed was on a check for a train set for $35 at > a local swap meet to a young family with 2 kids who went to the trouble of > having the check cancelled and then ignoring my calls and offer to drive out > there and get the trains back for their cancelled check. I do keep that > check posted at swap meets hoping they will return. > > The interesting new thing is the UPS on-line tracking is free on their > website. www.ups.com You get a tracking number when you send your package > and it is traced every step of the way. I sent one to Ohio that was read 12 > times with date and time. It works great and calms buyers when it isn't > there immediately. > > My problem with COD is I have to pay for the shipping up front. If the > other person changes his mind or rejects it I have to pay shipping both ways > just to get the package back. > > eric reis > kenmore, wa. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bill Roberts <wrobwrob@...> > To: <S-Scale@onelist.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 27, 1999 9:54 PM > Subject: [S-Scale] Re: Xxxxxx Xxxxx > > > From: "Bill Roberts" <wrobwrob@...> > > > > What is the preferred way these days to buy something from or sell > something > > to someone you don't know? Is COD used by anyone these days? > > > > Is it still possible to send a package COD with inspection privileges? The > > buyer gets to open the box at the post office, check it out, then pay. > > > > - Bill Roberts > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 19:29:57 -0800 > From: Jim and Vicky <jimpatt@...> > Subject: Passager car paper insert / paint > > What is the type of paper used? > What weight? > The color is a off white / yellowed! Maybe due to age? no idea what > original was. > Two sheets of different sizes / configuration. > Source? > > Where to get? Paint as close to the original that A.C. Gilbert used. > The requirements satin silver. Quantity to repaint (5) 960--963 cars. > orange strip (One) 963 > chestnut strip (2) 960 and (one) each > 961--963's > ALL PAINT MUST BE OF THE SAME DYE LOT depending on color. > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 10 > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 19:38:45 -0800 > From: "Ross M Roberts Sandra L Roberts" <roberts2@...> > Subject: 969 Rocket Launcher > > I have a 969 Rocket Launcher flatcar. It operates intermittently. The spring action is strong when it is released. The problem seems to be generating enough pull to overcome the resistance in the release mechanism (or possibly reducing the resistance). Can you tell me what to look for? > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 11 > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 22:51:39 -0500 > From: Roger Delthony <delthony@...> > Subject: Triple S Website > > My appologies for the listing I put up for Triple S. I copied their > address exactly off the address line for their site, and when my message > came back to me through S-Trains I clicked on it and it didn't work. > > What I can suggest this time is that you go to Paul Yorke's S-Trains > site. On it he has a link to Triple S, which is how I got there. > > Roger > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:28:40 -0500 (EST) > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > Subject: grades > > I use Flyer trestles and have no problems having curves on grades. The key > is to raise the outer side of the trestle about 1/16" by placing a piece of > cardboard under one foot. Perhaps a similar superelevating technique can > be adapted if you are not using trestles. > > The only thing that causes problems is an s curve-two curved sections , > curving in opposite directions, joined together. This will not work. It > is necessary to insert a straight section between them. Tom Jarcho > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 13 > Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 21:55:56 -0800 > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > Subject: Re: Passager car paper insert / paint > > Well, I never saw the original posting, but based on Jim's responses, think > I can guess the questions. > The paper was a cheap paper, that quickly turned slightly yellow, if it > wasn't before. I use a 20lb tan colored paper to replicate it. Just went to > a local print shop and they had some that matched. For the streamlined > passenger cars I added a blue paper over the original. The blue was what the > laundry came in, very thin actually. This gives the cars a bluish tint that > I think more correctly approximates the tinted windows these cars had in > real life, and also the fluorescent lighting they used. I did this when I > was a kid, after watching the Shasta Daylight go up the canyon in my > backyard and realizing that my trains didn't look like that! > Paint. Hmm, the main silver bodies match most satin silver paints (avoid the > aluminum ones, too many metal particles, and too thick.). If you are > painting the whole train, you will never see any slight color differences. I > don't have any hints on the band color, though. > Also, don't know if you have an air brush, or will be forced to use > spray can stuff. You have many more options on paint types and colors with > the air brush. > S' > David D. > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6119	From: Gregg Mummert	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: TTOS 2000 AF cars - update

I rec'd the following additional info from TTOS - sounds like another O car w/ Flyer trucks. Gregg Mummert This is what I have been told about the S-gauge convention car for 2000. According to our source at Lionel, the original molds, dies and drawings for the Flyer crane have been destroyed and probably will never be made again. The car will not have six wheel trucks because at present the only six wheel trucks that Lionel has for Flyer pieces have the pivot point in the wrong place to be mounted to a Lionel crane chassis and changing the die was not a possibility for this short run of cars. The trucks that are used are four wheel die cast passenger car trucks because that is what fit the chassis. The item will have American Flyer printed on it in the same place as the original; the gondola will be AF and it will come in AF boxes. Hope this answers a few questions and I am working to get a black and white picture to put on the envelope of the January Bulletin. Carol, TTOS

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6120	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: TTOS 2000 AF cars - update

Yes, this is what happened. Interestingly, the O people were hoping for the AF version, as the boom is more realistic and prototypical. However, the 0-27 crane is actually more S scale than O, so it may work out OK for us. I'm willing to wait to see the picture. At least they didn't use the freight car trucks under it, or mount it on a flatcar body as Gilbert did late in production. One onther thing that's wrong, is the base is shown in red, and the prototype is black. One thing that is curious is; What three-axle trucks do they have on hand??? Maybe from the ill-fated Hudson project? Maybe they're gonna do something else???? S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6121	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: S-Trains -pass cars

<<What is the type of paper used? What weight? The color is a off white / yellowed! Maybe due to age? no idea what original was. Two sheets of different sizes / configuration. Source? Where to get? Paint as close to the original that A.C. Gilbert used. The requirements satin silver. Quantity to repaint (5) 960--963 cars. orange strip (One) 963 chestnut strip (2) 960 and (one) each 961--963's ALL PAINT MUST BE OF THE SAME DYE LOT depending on color. >> Gilbert used 2 or 3 different papers over the years. One was simply clean newsprint, tripled in the center. That's what we sell as repro light diffusers, for .25 each. Paints: Silver is not a problem. We carry that in jar ($3.75) or spraycan ($7.50). New Haven Orange and Chestnut brown are not as easy. You have to buy something like a Floquil RR paint, and play with the color to get a good match. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html VISA-MC-DISCOVER-AMEX ACCEPTED. Port Lines has three different catalogs available. Catalog #1 contains our complete listing of American Flyer Repair & Restoration Parts. Catalog #2 is our current Used AF Equipment List. Catalog #3 contains New Equipment & Products from all the different S manufacturers which we carry. Catalog #1 is $3.00. Catalogs #2 and #3 are $2 each. A set of all three catalogs is $6.00.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6122	From: ROGER HINDS	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Molds

Hi Guy"S" : In regards to dsestroyed molds: Would it be practicle for someone to take apart an existing item, make a plaster mold from it to reproduce replacement parts ?? Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6123	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Molds

Generaly it is practical to make 1 part from 1 plaster mold, because (1) you usually have to break the mold to get the part out even if there are no undercuts and (2) the mold deteriorates with use. In fact, if there are undercuts, you can't get the plaster mold off the part without breaking the mold. Remember that the original parts were not made from plaster molds but actually from steel dies which included ejector pins. It is very possible to make a RTV mold for small parts and get a few parts reproduced with epoxy. I did this once for the top of a tank car dome. ROGER HINDS wrote: > > From: ROGER HINDS <cofa@...> > > Hi Guy"S" : > > In regards to dsestroyed molds: > > > Would it be practicle for someone to take apart an > existing item, make a plaster mold from it to > reproduce replacement parts ?? > > Roger > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6124	From: Alan Bataille	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Talk To Us - Website]

Hmmm, should I be excited about Lionel's reply to my AF inquiry? Maybe AF had it's time, when A.C. Gilbert was around to oversee the product. Lionel does not seem to care about, or may be threatened by, the AF tradition. (C'mon Neil, I love your music, can you put a word in for us?) I think 30 years from now today's kids will think that these (the 90's and the 00's) are the good old days, with the great stuff that the current S-scale manufacturers are making. S-Helper Service, American Models, Port Line Hobbies, Downs, River Raisin, etc. are today's American Flyer. I am so glad these companies are around, and am happy to add their cars to my layout. Alan Bataille Thank you for the comments regarding AF. Please check our latest catalog for three new items, including a new engine, that will be available next year. >>> <abata@...> 11/25/99 11:15PM >>> Talk To Us - Website 25-Nov-99 11:15 PM Name: Alan Bataille Email: abata@... Comments: I have a fair collection of A.C. Gilbert American Flyer as well as a dozen or so Lionel American Flyer cars. I can see by your website that you don't consider American Flyer a worthwhile product. S-Helper Service, American Models, Port Lines Hobby Supplies and several other companies have gone a long way to promote S scale and proudly manufacture products in the spirit and tradition of A.C. Gilbert. In fact they have taken the scale further with much greater realism. Will Lionel ever try to compete with these companies using the American Flyer line? If you don't consider 'S' scale a threat, please sell the American Flyer line to a company who cares about the AF tradition. Thanks. Alan Bataille

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6125	From: Cynthia M. Wahl	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: cleaning track

I am a newbie to running an American Flyer train. My dad had one when I was 4-5 and I am trying to rebuild his. However, I am running into a few snags. The train currently starts and stops at will at various points on the track. Also, what is recommended for cleaning the track. My husband suggests steel wool. Does this clog the track? If you don't use steel wool, how do you remove rust from old track? The train does back up, however, it may do so after one or two tries at a reverse. We currently have two locomotives, a 302 and a 322AC. Oh, I should mention that I am not real electically inclined. My husband (the one who says just buy a new train, forget the old AF stuff, it will never run, and I didn't really want a train for Christmas anyway) used to be an electrical engineer. Cindy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6126	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Molds

You would think so, except for one problem--shrinkage. I presume you would want to do it in plastic again, and that depends on whether you mold the plastic, or actually melt it like brass, etc., to form the piece. If you are reshaping flat stock in a die, you may have only the changes caused by curves, thicknesses, etc. On the other hand, if you are casting, you definitely have a shrinkage based on the amount of contraction that happens when the cast material cools. When Claude Wade had us making patterns, he designed enlargements into the pattern pieces that allowed for a 4% shrinkage during the cooling of the brass. On the other end of the spectrum, there was a toy, yes, it was sold as a toy- where you could heat plastic sheets in a mold and bend them to shapes. It was called Vac-u-form; and we actually were doing boxcar doors and ends with it. ROGER HINDS wrote: > From: ROGER HINDS <cofa@...> > > Hi Guy"S" : > > In regards to dsestroyed molds: > > > Would it be practicle for someone to take apart an > existing item, make a plaster mold from it to > reproduce replacement parts ?? > > Roger > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6127	From: JoeAWood@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 451

The best way to purchase items or merchandise is to use a U.S.Postal money order if the goods are not delivered or if there is a problem it could be considered mail fraud which is a Federal offense I have always used this methods and Have no problem telling the potential seller that any type of misrepresentation is mail fraud.Using this method has insured that i have always got what I have bargened for .Joe

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6128	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: cleaning track

NEVER USE STEEL WOOL, SMALL PIECES WILL BE LEFT ON THE RAILS AND WHEN YOUR LOCOS ARE RUNNING THE MOTOR WILL SET UP A MAGNETIC FIELD AND ATTRACT THE STEEL WOOL INTO THE MOTOR AND CAUSE A LOT OF GRIEF. Clean the top of the rails and the metal pick-up wheels on the tender with emery cloth or even better a BRIGHT BOY track cleaner, available at your local hobby/train store. If you are using a lockon to connect the wires from the transformer to the track, make sure that the point of contact with the rails is bright and clean. It is a good idea to also clean the track pins to ensure good electrical contact. You may also want to have your locos oiled, greased and the reverse unit tuned up. Clean the wheels on all of your rolling stock, as the wheels build up dirt over a period of time. And most importantly do not sell your trains, it is nice that you have saved them. They can be made to run like new. Also a company, S-Helper Service has come out with a new line of track you may want to check out. Good luck and let us know how it all works out. Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6129	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: cleaning track

Steek wool is not too good because the fibers can get into the motors. If track is not at all rusty you can wipe it down with a cleaning solvent. If corrosion is noticeable then fine sandpaper isn't bad. A good method is to use a bright boy type cleaning pad as sold by hobby stores for cleaning HO track. Also good to bend all track pins slightly outward before track assembly to enhance contact. Also make sure pins are not corroded. Slip track together and apart a few times to make sure inside of rails are clean where pins enter. When track is clean and assembled then apply a few drops of very light oil to the rails. A drop suffices for about every 6 feet of rail. This keeps oxygen out of the air space between the wheel and rail. You will notice arcing is reduced or gone. Smoke fluid is just about the right viscosity oil to use for this. If you clean the contacts in the reverse units on the engines they may stop sticking also. Some contact cleaner works wonders for these. Keep it off the finish though. When you get serious about wanting newer engines with more reliable electronic reverse units and all-wheel pickup, look into some of the great running Flyer compatible American Models locos or the SHS diesel switcher. "Cynthia M. Wahl" wrote: > > From: "Cynthia M. Wahl" <cwahl@...> > > I am a newbie to running an American Flyer train. My dad had one when I was > 4-5 and I am trying to rebuild his. However, I am running into a few snags. > The train currently starts and stops at will at various points on the track. > Also, what is recommended for cleaning the track. My husband suggests steel > wool. Does this clog the track? If you don't use steel wool, how do you > remove rust from old track? The train does back up, however, it may do so > after one or two tries at a reverse. We currently have two locomotives, a > 302 and a 322AC. Oh, I should mention that I am not real electically > inclined. My husband (the one who says just buy a new train, forget the old > AF stuff, it will never run, and I didn't really want a train for Christmas > anyway) used to be an electrical engineer. > > Cindy > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6130	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Molds

Pretty much true, but yes, you can get multiple parts out of a plaster mold. I have one I make Model T horn buttons with, have at least a half-dozen. BUT! now that I've done these, I am considering a metal mold, and I did cheat on this one, there's fiberglass in the plaster for added strength, and no undercuts (although it is a two-part mold with vents, parting line is where the original one was). Shrinkage is also a consideration, your replica part will not be the exact same size as the original. Also, I do have to do some manual finishing of the buttons when they emerge, to get a really smooth polished surface, something that may be difficult to do with a detailed piece. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6131	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: Molds

I always thought the Vac-U-Form would be useful for making small train parts! A friend had one, and we used to make our own molds, I don't remember of what, probably race cars. Had a lot of fun with that. Probably couldn't be sold today, with that *dangerous* heating element!! Can't find the perforated plastic sheets in stores anymore too.. (the thing held pre-cut plastic squares with perforations in them that fit pins on the toy.) S David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6132	From: David Dewey	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: cleaning track

Cynthia, Steel wool is a very bad idea, you've probably already been told this. Paint stores carry a 3-M product, we call "Scratchy-pad" for sanding odd surfaces. It's a pad similar to the scratchy-faced sponges you can get for pots & pans (and, yes, they will work too) and come in at least three grades of roughness. The middle one is usually fine (gray colored out here) for track cleaning, and even wheel polishing. Since your husband is a retired electrical engineer, he should appreciate good design implementation, as the AF locos are that. True, it's 40-year-old (or more) technology, but well done, it still runs doesn't it? Taking the tender bodies off and using some tuner cleaner on the reverse unit contacts will do wonders for you engines. If you want someone else to do the work, reliable repair shops will usually give your locos a "tune-up & lube" for around $30 each. Much cheaper than buying new ones! Yes, new locos are neat, as are their solid-state reverse units, but I doubt they will still function in 40 years without parts replacements, just like your AF. And I don't know if the parts will be available then! (heck, we might not be using 120VAC house current by then either!) Lots of good, helpful people here, just ask, we'll post! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6133	From: Robert Morrison	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: 4 wheel passenger trucks?

Hi All! And you say Hi Bob, I'll wait. Now then I'm trying to help a friend who is thinking about modeling in S scale locate a source for 4 wheel passenger trucks. He loves to scratch build and hand lay his own track and turnouts. Some guys have all the time in the world for trains! Being AF Hi-Rail guy myself I'm not up on all the scale parts that might be available. Any help will be most appreciated and maybe I can bring another great modeler to the S gauge family! Thanks, Bob M.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6134	From: Alan Bataille	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Talk To Us - Website]]

I want to make a clarification about my previous note. To my previous note to this list regarding the above subject I attached the note I sent to Lionel via their web site. When I said "I can see by your website that you don't consider American Flyer a worthwhile product", I was talking to Lionel's website, not this (S-Trains) mailing list. I have been reading notes from this list for the past week, and know that there is a lot of love and respect for American Flyer here. I LOVE American Flyer too!!!!! Hmmm, should I be excited about Lionel's reply to my AF inquiry? Maybe AF had it's time, when A.C. Gilbert was around to oversee the product. Lionel does not seem to care about, or may be threatened by, the AF tradition. (C'mon Neil, I love your music, can you put a word in for us?) I think 30 years from now today's kids will think that these (the 90's and the 00's) are the good old days, with the great stuff that the current S-scale manufacturers are making. S-Helper Service, American Models, Port Line Hobbies, Downs, River Raisin, etc. are today's American Flyer. I am so glad these companies are around, and am happy to add their cars to my layout. Alan Bataille Thank you for the comments regarding AF. Please check our latest catalog for three new items, including a new engine, that will be available next year. >>> <abata@...> 11/25/99 11:15PM >>> Talk To Us - Website 25-Nov-99 11:15 PM Name: Alan Bataille Email: abata@... Comments: I have a fair collection of A.C. Gilbert American Flyer as well as a dozen or so Lionel American Flyer cars. I can see by your website that you don't consider American Flyer a worthwhile product. S-Helper Service, American Models, Port Lines Hobby Supplies and several other companies have gone a long way to promote S scale and proudly manufacture products in the spirit and tradition of A.C. Gilbert. In fact they have taken the scale further with much greater realism. Will Lionel ever try to compete with these companies using the American Flyer line? If you don't consider 'S' scale a threat, please sell the American Flyer line to a company who cares about the AF tradition. Thanks. Alan Bataille [Attachments have been removed from this message] Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6135	From: Toyguy5344@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: new haven orange

a good match for a.c. gilbert's new haven orange is humbrol's "orange facings". it's one of their figurine colors and is available from squadron.com. use humbrol thinner and spray it with an airbrush. good enough match for touch up - depending on the amount of fading in the original - john marganski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6136	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 11/30/1999
Subject: Re: L-word EP5

In a message dated 11/30/99 6:14:03 AM EST, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << Message: 1 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 11:09:07 -0500 From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun) Subject: Lionel New Haven electric Hi, I've always loved the AF New Haven EP-5 but never owned one. The original AF's are out of my price range (for something i run once a year) but i have noticed 3 of the Lionel versions on ebay. 2 look like they may go for under $200. Questions... are these versions any good? And what would be a good price for a "new in box"? Thanks, kbt >> __________________________________________ New ones, in my opinion, should not cost much over the original price, which was, I believe about $225 or $230. I have seen them at train shows with an asking price of maybe $275 and they don't sell. Same vendor bringing it to show after show. I got a very slightly used one on eBay for, I think, about $180. It runs quite well, not as bad as a lot of the L diesal PA units, some of which are just one step above junk. Just my opinion, of course. Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6137	From: bob walsh	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Lionel made AF EP5

I am a fan of the EP5 also. I have one of the Lionel made ones but I have never ran it. Some years ago at the TTOS convention that was held in Michigan I picked up one of the Milwaukee Road EP5 "mint in box" at an auction for $100 or less. Sometimes it pays to be in the minority. Everyone else at the auction were Lionel freaks and this was long before Ebay. Come to think of it, there were some incredible deals at the convention, of course I didn't have much cash and I had to pack everything back to California. I even picked up a 332 DC Northern (poor paint job) for around $150 or so. This was only about 5 (?) years ago and of course this was before Ebay. So I would recommend that some of you AF fans join your local TTOS, you will definitely be in the minority but sometimes that can pay off. Besides, it is alot of fun just hanging out with other train freaks, even if they are confused 3 railers. __________________________________________________ FREE Email for ALL! Sign up at http://www.mail.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6138	From: D Simon	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: New set book

I know that there was some talk on a new book on sets from AF. Where can I get a copy? Thanks Dave PS does anyone know how this compares to greenburgs book on sets?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6139	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: K771 Stockyard

Fellow S-Gaugers. I have just received a K771 stockyard and car and now need a little help in hooking it up and explaining how it works. The controller has 1 yellow wire and the stockyard building has 1 black wire and 2 yellow wires. I have all 8 cows but not sure how they are supposed to operate as far as going into the car and back out again. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance..Ben

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6140	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Kid'S' Excitement

Richard and 'S'ers, I would have to concur with your conclusions regarding what gets kids excited at train shows. They love...ACTION!!! I have reached this conclusion after the experience of operating our display layout at train shows for the past 6 years. Operating accessories command a lot of attention, as does motive power which is sound-equipped. But the Number One thing which draws them in is the old AF steam engines with smoke and choo-choo. The biggest hit at our most recent train show (2 weeks ago) was an old AF Hudson (4-6-4) which has been highly modified to produce a chuff rate at close to prototypical (4 chuffs/cycle) and to smoke at lung-choking levels (I hope the EPA doesn't attend any of our shows!). When this thing fired up and started to pull its train, the kids went absolutely bonkers (and so did most of the adults). So, apparently, those old AF steamers are still capable of performing as adept ambassadors for S scale. Cheers. 'S'incerely, Jay Mellon Crescent City S Gaugers New Orleans, LA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6141	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: Kid'S' Excitement

Amen to the message below. We bring a small 42" x 36"(?) layout along with our modules. It sets on a standard 30" high display table. We run a smoking Atlantic pulling a couple rocket cars and a log dump car. Kids actuate the cars via a button they can reach. It's always a huge hit with the small set. "Mellon, Jay E." wrote: > > From: "Mellon, Jay E." <jmellon@...> > > Richard and 'S'ers, > > I would have to concur with your conclusions regarding what gets kids > excited at train shows. They love...ACTION!!! I have reached this > conclusion after the experience of operating our display layout at train > shows for the past 6 years. Operating accessories command a lot of > attention, as does motive power which is sound-equipped. But the Number One > thing which draws them in is the old AF steam engines with smoke and > choo-choo. The biggest hit at our most recent train show (2 weeks ago) was > an old AF Hudson (4-6-4) which has been highly modified to produce a chuff > rate at close to prototypical (4 chuffs/cycle) and to smoke at lung-choking > levels (I hope the EPA doesn't attend any of our shows!). When this thing > fired up and started to pull its train, the kids went absolutely bonkers > (and so did most of the adults). So, apparently, those old AF steamers are > still capable of performing as adept ambassadors for S scale. Cheers. > > 'S'incerely, > Jay Mellon > Crescent City S Gaugers > New Orleans, LA > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6142	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: Molds

If you are casting brass we always used 1 1/2% per generation. In other words if you had a part but wanted to make a pattern with 20 parts you would cast the first generation making 20 copies then using the 20 to make one gang pattern and then cast your production parts. This would require 3% for shrinkage. If you are doing plastic you would use up to 1 1/2% depending which plastic you are using. Larry ironhors@... wrote: > From: ironhors@... > > You would think so, except for one problem--shrinkage. I presume you would > want to do it in plastic again, and that depends on whether you mold the > plastic, or actually melt it like brass, etc., to form the piece. If you are > reshaping flat stock in a die, you may have only the changes caused by > curves, thicknesses, etc. On the other hand, if you are casting, you > definitely have a shrinkage based on the amount of contraction that happens > when the cast material cools. When Claude Wade had us making patterns, he > designed enlargements into the pattern pieces that allowed for a 4% shrinkage > during the cooling of the brass. On the other end of the spectrum, there was > a toy, yes, it was sold as a toy- where you could heat plastic sheets in a > mold and bend them to shapes. It was called Vac-u-form; and we actually were > doing boxcar doors and ends with it. > > ROGER HINDS wrote: > > > From: ROGER HINDS <cofa@...> > > > > Hi Guy"S" : > > > > In regards to dsestroyed molds: > > > > > > Would it be practicle for someone to take apart an > > existing item, make a plaster mold from it to > > reproduce replacement parts ?? > > > > Roger > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6143	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: Kid'S' Excitement

When we were doing the mall shows in the Kansas City area, the malls would require that we keep at least one train going at all times. Additionally, the brighter the colors of engines and cars, in additon to the movement, attracted them like flies--adults also.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6144	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: next batch of SW-9's and New sets

The container arrived today with the next batch of SW-9s (six new roadnames) and our new starter trains sets (also 6 roadnames). The sets contain a 40" X 60" loop of our S Trax, The 5400 power pack with momentum, am SW-9, an extended vision caboose and three to five additional freight cars. The price varies from $299.95 to $399.95 depending on the number of freight cars. This is a great value and I am happy to report, they are selling well. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 Next run of SW-9's and Starter Sets are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6145	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: 1955 AF GP7

What did AF suggest that the GP7 can handle with out overworking it.....it just seems the Atlantic steamers have more pulling power...any thoughts, Jeff

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6146	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: 1955 AF GP7

The AF GP-7 had only one power truck and little more than half its weight on the drive wheels. The atlantic,while the same number of wheels, had maybe 90% of its weight on the drive wheels. At least some of the GP-7s had a weight in the cab, butI still betcha the Atlantic did more. Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA wrote: > From: "Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA" <findit@...> > > What did AF suggest that the GP7 can handle with out overworking > it.....it just seems the Atlantic steamers have more pulling power...any > thoughts, Jeff > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6147	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: K771 Stockyard

Mine is wired into the layout so I can't trace it easily right now. Anyway, one pair of wires powers the stockyard so the cows mill about. One color cow goes on one side. That's all the wiring to the yard. The other wire powers the car actuator so the cows will move thru it. To load, pull the car up to the chute. The left door as I recall. Set your chute down and open one of the pens to the chute via the little gate. The cows should climb the ramp into the car. When they reach the car door you need to turn the car on to get them to move into the car. To unload place the other door at the chute. Turn on the stockyard and operate the car to get the cattle to unload. There is a hex under the shed roof to adjust vibration of the yard a bit, which may help the action if you experiment. The catalog said the critters could be ornery and need a push now and then just like real cows. I take this to mean it was never perfect. Ben Kronenwetter wrote: > > From: Ben Kronenwetter <bg@...> > > Fellow S-Gaugers. I have just received a K771 stockyard and car and now > need a little help in hooking it up and explaining how it works. The > controller has 1 yellow wire and the stockyard building has 1 black wire > and 2 yellow wires. I have all 8 cows but not sure how they are > supposed to operate as far as going into the car and back out again. > Any and all help will be greatly appreciated. > Thanks in advance..Ben > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6148	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: Re: Kid'S' Excitement

On 12/1/99 5:22 PM, Mellon, Jay E., jmellon@..., said: >I would have to concur with your conclusions regarding what gets kids >excited at train shows. They love...ACTION!!! Hi Jay, As a visitor to the show who brought his kids, I agree. My kids certainly enjoyed the trains that moved much more than the ones laying in boxes! (But then, so did I!) Thanks Jay for coming to the show. I had gone expecting to see only HO but was pleasantly surprised to find two separate layouts of S. Certainly the puffing Hudson was the more impressive of the two. It was neat to walk around and see the little kids staring wide-eyed at every train that moved. Since seeing you, I've received my Franklin from Mark Preman (THANKS Mark!) and have my Dept. 56 Christmas town setup with the Franklin puffing its way around. I'll post photos on the web site soon. My Christmas town has always captured kids' attentions, but now with the moving train, we can't get them to go home. Michael Doing S in Baton Rouge

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6149	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/1/1999
Subject: 1955 GP-7

The dual GP-7's, #'s 374-375 & 377-378, have all they can do to pull the heavy dummy, let alone more than a few cars. They almost always have a damaged motor chassis from the strain too. I have it in mind to build a lighter weight plastic floor for my dummy unit. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6150	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Smoke & Chuff

Jay Melon said: >our old AF Hudson (4-6-4) which has been highly modified to produce a chuff >rate at close to prototypical (4 chuffs/cycle) and to smoke at lung-choking levels Jay : I would be very interested to know more about the modifications which you made to get these results. Can you elaborate? Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6151	From: D Simon	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Set help Please

I am hoping someone can help me. I just got the 20763 Casey Jones set. It the box is the following 21165, 24127, 24052, 24636. When I looked it up in Greenburg they say it should have 21166, 24124, 24058, 24636. I talked with the person I got this set from and he tells this is how he got it. Any Ideas? Do I leave it as is or replace with the cars and engine that Greenburg claims is correct? Thanks alot Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6152	From: Joseph Haenn	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: Kid's Excitement

The Atlantic Coast S Gaugers (both the Central Virginia and the Central Carolinas Divisions) also find that kids love 1). the smoke and choo-choo of AF steamers and 2) the AF operating accessories. They especially love Louie the Loader, the log loaders, the lighted whistling billboard, and the sawmill. At our upcoming modular layout at the Charlotte (NC) Greenburg Show on December 18-19, we also plan to have a ceramic village on one module to demonstrate AF's fit with these Christmas villages. Joe ===== Joe's Train Repair FAX Orders: 919/471-2613 404 Shetland Road Rougemont, NC 27572-9338 Specializing in S Gauge American Flyer Parts Dealer Over 85,000 AF parts in stock with over 1,100 part lines American Models ########################## S-Helper Service Official Licensed Dealer for gilbert Reproductions joestrainrepair@... Master Charge/Visa __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6153	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: coral and geep

771 button has two extra black wires - - ignore them, they were for use with a rectifier instead of regular AC transformer. Other than that I'm pretty sure (at work at the moment, but K-line book or Barkers has the diagram) it's black to Base post on your transformer. One yellow from the button to your 15v post, one yellow from your button to the pen, and the red one from your button to your pen (electrifies the pick-up rail to activate the car). I replaced the power truck chassis on my 371 with a late model LTI geep chassis (complete with bushings unlike the ACG originals). Blazing fast and strong as a bull. It's been awhile since I did any engine to engine pulling benchmarks, but I remember once comparing how some steamers and diesels did with 13-15 cars around my outside loop and as I recall this geep did impressively well with that many cars even in comparison to the 470 I re-chassis'd. I get my LTI diesel chassis from Fred Jester (see S-Gaugian ads) at $22 a piece. They work great. I agree, ACG diesel dummies are very heavy. Arguably counter-productive. A 470/71/73 doesn't leave much Moxie left for adding passenger cars. I've got my 473 slated for motors to see if I can get it close enough to the 470 for true double heading, but not until I'm done my layout overhaul...some time in the next millennium at this rate.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6154	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: slower fwd than reverse

Remember that problem? I had a 303 and 293 that fell victim to this syndrome, and no matter what I cleaned, adjusted, refaced, or lubed, nothing would restore them to faster-forward-than-reverse or even equally fast (not slow) in both directions. Well, I cured them both. With new armatures. Zoom. Fred Jester has new old armatures for $17.50. Actually in the 303 I'm running one of his used ones ($7.50) and it works very well. I tried a couple of those with the 293, but neither worked. Then I popped a new one in and it runs great! Once again, it is one of my favorite engines to run (fast, smooth, and smokey <I rebuilt the smoker>). The only thing I didn't try, but look forward doing after completing other layout and engine projects, is rewinding their original armatures. It will be very interesting to see if that resolves the issue, but given that fact both were very fast in reverse, I find it a little hard to believe something's actually wrong with the windings. Plus on some ocassions, as I'd play with pressing the brushes in certain ways I could actually get their motors to momentarily speed up in forward.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6155	From: Chaudiere, Dale	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Sluggish Alco

Hi All, I could not find anything on this in the FAQ, so here's the question. What is the most probable case of a sluggish Alco that speeds up after running for a while? I have removed the metal cover plates on the bottom of each truck and there does not seem to be any accumulation of old hard grease. I have also used a light sewing machine type oil at the "oil" hole. The Alco is all original except the reverse fingers which I replaced 3 years ago. Dale

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6156	From: MWelbornjr@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: TTOS AF cars????

This may have been answered but not sure... Is the TTOS AF crane and gondola just offered original Gilbert tooling or Lionel 0-27 gauge adaption. Thanks, Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6157	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: Sluggish Alco

Dale, Just speculation on my part, but I would suspect the armature bushings have congealed oil in them. To cure this you will probably have to take the armature out of the chassis, spray the bushings with something strong, like Electra-Kleen (a CRC company product--auto parts stores carry it). Protect the armature windings wile using it. Then re-oil with a high grade modern oil, such as LaBelle's. As the motor warms up, the old oil re-liquefies, so it runs better. This, I repeat, is just *speculation* on my part!! I could be wrong!!! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6158	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: TTOS AF cars????

Michael, Yep, Lionel tooling. The AF crane tooling was either still on the molding machines at the AF factory when they were sold, or are in some Mexican "Government" storage facility, or just plain lost. Considering that the crane on flat car was one of the late manufactured items, I'd bet on the tooling going with the factory machinery auction. The base though, is a puzzle, as it wasn't produced since probably '58 or earlier. Often componants were made in large production runs and then sat in storage until finished and assembled into complete items (you can't believe how many body shells you will make in an hour's run on an injection machine). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6159	From: Brent Hjermstad	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 453

Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions on track cleaning and so forth. We are still in the middle of the cleaning. I am sure I will have more questions. What do you use for smoke oil? Cindy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6160	From: noramz@xxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: slower fwd than reverse

David, Yes, I remember that problem. Since all of my steam engines are AF, it is a condition always waiting around to show itself up. I have done like you and replaced armatures and that has sometimes cured the problem. The fact that it runs well in at least one direction tells me also that there is probably nothing wrong with any windings. I have rewound field coils (armatures are more difficult, and besides, I have some new ones anyway) without any consistant improvement in results. I say consistant because this leads me to the solution I found. When you take the motor apart and put it back together, chances are that the brushes will get put back in in a different orientation from the way they came out, right? And sometimes they might be worn on a slight angle. This gave me the idea that the problem had something to do with timing, where in the cycle each segment of the armature was being turned on (or polarity being changed). Think of your car engine - when you change the spark timing (leaving everything else the same) the speed of the engine changes. With the AF motors there is no provision for changing timing. So what I did was alter the brushes. I hope you can follow my explanation here. I filed a slight angle on the end of each brush. This leaves one side of the brush slightly longer than the other side so it makes contact with the commutator at the edge of the brush instead of in the center portion. The right brush goes in with the longer side up and the left brush with the longer side down. This has worked for me every time to get the engine to run faster forward than backwards, without replacing any parts. Yes, brushes wear out fast enough already without this treatment but I am an operator and I want my trains to RUN. The results at first are very noticeable but as the brushes wear the difference between forward and reverse speeds becomes a little less. I don't remember if I have ever tried turning brushes with angles already worn on them to the orientation I described above but that might also work. If you ever try this fix I would be curious to know if you get the same results as I did. Happy RRing, Norman Crescent City S Gaugers New Orleans, La. PS - I have a 312, 322 and 293, my solution has work on all three engines. Remember that problem? I had a 303 and 293 that fell victim to this syndrome, and no matter what I cleaned, adjusted, refaced, or lubed, nothing would restore them to faster-forward-than-reverse or even equally fast (not slow) in both directions. Well, I cured them both. With new armatures. Zoom. Fred Jester has new old armatures for $17.50. Actually in the 303 I'm running one of his used ones ($7.50) and it works very well. I tried a couple of those with the 293, but neither worked. Then I popped a new one in and it runs great! Once again, it is one of my favorite engines to run (fast, smooth, and smokey <I rebuilt the smoker>). The only thing I didn't try, but look forward doing after completing other layout and engine projects, is rewinding their original armatures. It will be very interesting to see if that resolves the issue, but given that fact both were very fast in reverse, I find it a little hard to believe something's actually wrong with the windings. Plus on some ocassions, as I'd play with pressing the brushes in certain ways I could actually get their motors to momentarily speed up in forward. [Attachments have been removed from this message] Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6161	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 453

Lately I,ve been using the supersmoke put out by Bart's Pneumatics. I also know people who swear by lamp oil. Brent Hjermstad wrote: > > From: "Brent Hjermstad" <bhjermstad@...> > > Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions on track cleaning and so > forth. We are still in the middle of the cleaning. I am sure I will have > more questions. What do you use for smoke oil? > > Cindy > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6162	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 453

Cindy, There are commerical smoke products available. The original AF smoke fluid had a cedar sent. In the past I have also used lamp oil which comes in various scents and is a lot cheaper then "Smoke Fluid". Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6163	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Slot-car racing sets!

In the December, 1999, issue of "Automobile Magazine", there is an article about slot-car racing sets. The most popular scales are 1:32(No. 1 scale) and the smaller sets manufactured by Tyco, Tomy, and Life-Like are reported to be 1:64(S scale). I remember in the past that these sets were referred to as HO scale race car sets, but the cars allways seemed a bit large for HO. Has anyone ever thought of using these sets in conjunction with there model railroad, scale, hi-rail, or AF? If there is enough room on the outside of a modular layout, a roadway could be set up to add additional action to attract the public. How about kit -bashing tractor-trailer rigs, police cars and fire engines with flashing lights, etc............., you could drive yourself nuts!! Seriously, I would be interested in any thoughts from the list members. Thanks, Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6164	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: Slot-car racing sets!

In a message dated 12/2/99 5:34:16 PM, TPDavis7@... writes: << Has anyone ever thought of using these sets in conjunction with there model railroad, scale, hi-rail, or AF? >> My friends and I did this as kids with our Flyers in the late Fifties and early Sixties. In the world of tinplate it's "scale-shmale". RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6165	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/2/1999
Subject: Re: 1955 GP-7

Some of us old timers (Not including me but including Will Estes--replaced the AF motor with a Pittman DC-65 and took the opportunity to upgrade gearing and wheels. Some of us even used Kemtron O scale 33" trolley wheels as replacements for the AF ones. These units and other single-truck powered ones should teach us all that what is not pulling has to be pulled. When it comes to powered axles, the only dummy on my layout is me. I admit I cannot think of anyone able to repower all 4 axles on a GP-7 without a full conversion, the first of which was when Bernie de la Torre and I were messing with the brass chasses and adapted Lindsay drives in the 1960s, this was a full scale conversion, essentially, only the plastic shell was retained. . Jarcho wrote: > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > The dual GP-7's, #'s 374-375 & 377-378, have all they can do to pull the > heavy dummy, let alone more than a few cars. They almost always have a > damaged motor chassis from the strain too. I have it in mind to build a > lighter weight plastic floor for my dummy unit. Tom > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6166	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: Slot cars with S gauge.

This message is sent as a reply to Tom Davis and his question about using slot cars with S gauge trains to create a highway scene on a layout. I did this using Aurora HO slot cars on both S and HO gauge layouts. It looks decent in that it brings some movement into an otherwise static display area. Aurora's original marketing (remember this was the late 50s and early 60s) aimed at a "highway" setup as opposed to a purely racing one. The first cars, however, left a lot to be desired from a reliability viewpoint. The motor was a simple "vibrating reed" contraption that could be running at a scale 150mph then clamp on the binders and come to a dead halt, plastering the face of the imaginary driver on the windshield. Later the motors were substantially improved with the release of the "Thunderjet" motors. I thought of making a highway setup and actually tried it out on a couple of occasions. However, like trains, a given speed on a controller means 10 different things to 10 different cars (vehicles). Some sort of automated signalling system working with at least one block per car would have to be employed. Otherwise the faster cars will ultimately wind up pushing the slower ones around the track. Another reason for abandoning the project is that too much animation means that whatever is static will appear to be unrealistically so. If the trains and cars are moving people standing on sidewalks, station platforms, and other locations will appear to be statues. The train alone moving will bring a feeling f life to the layout. And our S gauge trains are what it's all about. As for circling the perimeter of the layout with a highway setup, then the "parking lot" in the middle becomes a real problem. I would suggest that animation be restricted to the trains and operating accessories only, leaving the rest static. If, however, someone could come up with a way of making a highway setup that works I would like to hear about it. May everyone on the list have a great holiday season! 'S'atisfaction, W. Thomas Boussum P.S. I would like to add my apology to Doug Peck. The article I wrote in response to his post about language usage was supposed to be humorous. Apparently it was not understood that way by others who responded to my post. In any case I hope that Doug will accept my apology.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6167	From: Neil Trump	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: 1955 GP-7

ironhors@... wrote:- snip I admit I cannot think of anyone able to re-power all 4 axles on a GP-7 without a full conversion....... Done it, converted a Lionel GP20 to have all axles powered using existing frame and power truck, with additional power truck replacing truck under the hood. Had to make some modifications to frame and power trucks though. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6168	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: Re: faster in reverse than forward

Norman, Thanks for your reply. I've always felt the key to this issue has something to do with the interface of the brushes with comm plates. I make the likeness to spark-profile in cars. Timing I guess would work to. Anyway, the interplay between the two seems crucial to performance. I like your idea, and will have to try it sometime, although it is obviously temporary because the natural tendency is for the comms to wear down the bevel on the brushes. Two reasons I'm glad a new armature restored good operation is that with it I'm using new (perfectly flat-faced brushes), and it means I likely don't have an axle-hole or worm-gear wear problem. But I'd still like to know what causes this fwd-rev relative speed syndrome in the first place. PS When removing parts from any engine, I'm careful to keep left-side components separate from right side components, just in case they've "seated" in a certain way that now works best for the toy. This includes push rods, side rods, springs, brushes, etc. One other last thing, I'm of the understanding that flat-faced brushed might be preferred to those with a deliberate or worn bevel in order to increase the chance they'll rotate/spin some on their longitudinal axis inside the brush housing while the motor is running. I believe this rotation helps avoid any unwanted wear pattern(s) grooves on the comm faces. This of course is only true for the later version non-slotted steamer brushes with coil springs not the earlier slotted style that used bent-wire springs, or the square-bodied brushes of late model engines. Dave

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6169	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: Re: armatures

In a message dated 12/3/99 6:20:02 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<It will be very interesting to see if that resolves the issue, but given that fact both were very fast in reverse, I find it a little hard to believe something's actually wrong with the windings. Plus on some ocassions, as I'd play with pressing the brushes in certain ways I could actually get their motors to momentarily speed up in forward. >> Check the face of the armatures. After a lot of use, the faces will sometimes have slight depressions near the slots. This creates "drag" in one direction, but not in the other. Faces can be restored if not to badly worn. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines/html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6170	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6171	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: New S scale decals

I received a letter from Bill Mosteller a few days ago. Bill produces small runs of specialty decals and has many of them for sale. Two new S scale decals he has produced are the Virginian 46' low side gondola and Virginian AAR box car. He is considering producing an S scale Southern caboose set if there is enough interest. Let him know if you are interested. He is also willing to resize any of his sets in other scales if there is enough interest. Bill's web address is www.greatdecals.com . His mailing address is 2813 Hogan Court, Falls Church, VA 22043 and his phone number is 703-264-8335. Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6172	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: Re: faster in reverse than forward

One thing that may also enter the picture that hasn't been mentioned is wear on the worm threads. Since the loco runs mostly in forward, it seems likely the thread is worn on one side more than the other. Seems like someday we will all need new armatures just to replace the worm gear part. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6173	From: John Simkovich	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: MOTORS

I was just wondering if there was anyone that rewinds the other part of the motor, the name actually slips me now. but I was just wondering if there isany one who did that. this other part being the part of the motor being the armature. sincerely John

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6174	From: Daniel Neumayer	Date: 12/3/1999
Subject: New Years Eve Celebration

Hi everyone! We're inviting you to our Year's End/ New Year Celebration on December 31 @ 8:30 PM Well have a ritual ceremony to acknowledge the highs and lows of the year gone by and our hopes and wishes for the year to come. We'll sing a few songs, dance a little, enjoy snacks and non-alcoholic beverages, and welcome the New Year enveloped in a snail-hug. You are welcome to stay as long (or as short) as you like and sleep over if you don't want to drive home. If you have any songs you would like to sing, please get the music and/or words to us by 12/23 so that we can make copies for everyone. If you have any desires-ideas-requests-suggestions or other contributions to make toward creating-choreographing the ritual please let us know. We shall serve simple snacks. If you want to eat anything special please feel free to bring it except NO alcoholic beverages please. Gwendolyn will teach, demonstrate with Daniel, and "call" some Contra Dances - NO preexisting knowledge on your part is needed. If you wish to sleep over please bring a sleeping bag and whatever nonalcoholic refreshment you want for breakfast. Please RSVP, either way, by Dec 28th. Looking forward to seeing in the New Year with you. Love, Gwendolyn and Daniel

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6175	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 12/4/1999
Subject: K325 acting up

O.K. Help! Again. I have a K325 Hudson that ran fine last time out. Wire between the engine and tender came loose so I resoldered . Engine will run fine for a time then start slowing down as if it might be binding , lights stay on no apparent loss of power. It will even come to a complete stop at some point then just start running again. I took the tender off and found a wire that was bare and I thought might be causing a problem. Put some electrical tape around that ,but it did not solve the problem. The valve gears don't seem to be binding. I'm not sure what to check for next. Any ideas? Thanks, Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6176	From: neil.trump@xx.xxx	Date: 12/4/1999
Subject: Re: K325 acting up

Chris, Try the following: Brushes in tubes are not sticking. Tension of the fingers on reverse unit drum are not to light. Neil T. > -----Original Message----- > From: Cbtrainnut@... [SMTP:Cbtrainnut@...] > Sent: 04 December 1999 13:06 > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] K325 acting up > > From: Cbtrainnut@... > > O.K. Help! Again. I have a K325 Hudson that ran fine last time out. Wire > between the engine and tender came loose so I resoldered . Engine will run > > fine for a time then start slowing down as if it might be binding , > lights > stay on no apparent loss of power. It will even come to a complete stop at > > some point then just start running again. I took the tender off and found > a > wire that was bare and I thought might be causing a problem. Put some > electrical tape around that ,but it did not solve the problem. The valve > gears don't seem to be binding. I'm not sure what to check for next. Any > ideas? Thanks, Chris Burger > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6177	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/4/1999
Subject: Re: New Years Eve Celebration

Dear Daniel, Thank you for the invitation. Exactly where do you live? I am planning on sending my two teenage sons who I am sure will enjoy the festivities. PS. You can send them back anytime you like...........June would be good! Don T. Daniel Neumayer wrote: > Hi everyone! > > We're inviting you to our Year's End/ New Year Celebration on > December 31 @ 8:30 PM > > Well have a ritual ceremony to acknowledge the highs and lows of the > year gone by and our hopes and wishes for the year to come. We'll > sing a few songs, dance a little, enjoy snacks and non-alcoholic > beverages, and welcome the New Year enveloped in a snail-hug. > > You are welcome to stay as long (or as short) as you like and sleep > over if you don't want to drive home. > > If you have any songs you would like to sing, please get the music > and/or words to us by 12/23 so that we can make copies for everyone. > If you have any desires-ideas-requests-suggestions or other > contributions to make toward creating-choreographing the ritual > please let us know. We shall serve simple snacks. If you want to eat > anything special please feel free to bring it except NO alcoholic > beverages please. > > Gwendolyn will teach, demonstrate with Daniel, and "call" some Contra > Dances - NO preexisting knowledge on your part is needed. > > If you wish to sleep over please bring a sleeping bag and whatever > nonalcoholic refreshment you want for breakfast. > > Please RSVP, either way, by Dec 28th. > > Looking forward to seeing in the New Year with you. > > Love, > Gwendolyn and Daniel > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 2nd batch of SW-9s, Starter Sets and 2000 catalogs are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6178	From: RobertE613@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/4/1999
Subject: MTH Z4000 question

Hi everyone, I'm finishing up this years Christmas layout and using an MTH Z4000 for the first time. I have to say, the trains ( 302AC, 350, 360, and AM Pacific) have never run better but.....the fixed output terminals on this transformer seem to be very low. My operating cars that need control track sections, rocket launcher/log dumper/cow car/coal dump/auto unloader/etc, barely function, if at all. Was too late last night to throw a VOM on it. Anyone have any experience with this transformer? Just as an aside, while setting up, I was testing the layout lights using the Z4000 fixed terminals and they kept popping the circuit breaker on the transformer. After satisfying myself that there were no shorts, I switched to my 30B transformer and no problems at all. Does the Z4000 have very low current trip settings? Thanks for any input in advance. Robert Ellis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6179	From: Richard	Date: 12/4/1999
Subject: A funny thing happened on the way to the convention!!

Just assume its a "S" convention!!!! lifted from aus.rail list!! <start of YAK> Three engineers and three accountants are travelling by train to a conference. At the station, the three accountants each buy tickets and watch as the three engineers buy only a single ticket. "How are three people going to travel on only one ticket?" asks an accountant. "Watch and you'll see," answers an engineer. They all board the train. The accountants take their respective seats, but all three engineers cram into a restroom and close the door behind them. Shortly after the train has departed, the conductor comes around collecting tickets. He knocks on the restroom door and says, "Ticket, please." The door opens just a crack and a single arm emerges with a ticket in hand. The conductor takes it and moves on. The accountants saw this and agreed it was quite a clever idea. So, after the conference, the accountants decide to copy the engineers on the return trip to save some money (being clever with money, and all that). When they get to the station, they buy a single ticket for the return trip. To their astonishment, the engineers don't buy a ticket at all. "How are you going to travel without a ticket?" says one perplexed accountant. "Watch and you'll see," answers an engineer. When they board the train, the three accountants cram into a restroom, and the three engineers cram into another one nearby. The train departs. Shortly afterward, one of the engineers leaves his restroom and walks over to the restroom where the accountants are hiding. He knocks on the door and says, "Ticket, please." <end of YAK> cherry mistmas >;~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6180	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 12/4/1999
Subject: Year 2000 Virginia Train Collectors Club Car

Hi everyone, I just received word today that the Board for the Virginia Train Collectors has approved my proposal for the year 2000 club car. They also approved offering the car to people outside of the VTC. 'The car is being made by Downs Model RR Co. You may see a drawing of the graphics by going to my home page and clicking on VTC club car. This will also provide you an order form you may print and use to order a car. My home page address is www.homestead.com/waynestrains/index.html . Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6181	From: Drgw489@aol.com	Date: 12/5/1999
Subject: Photos posted

Hi everyone, I've posted a couple of photos to the shared files area. They are of RSSVP Models latest cars, the Jack Frost PS-2, which is still available, and the next car, which will be a Canada Starch shorty tank car. The photo of the Canada Starch car is of the pilot model. Production models will not be available for about 60 days. Hope everyone doesn't mind this. Black and white photos in the magazines don't do the cars justice. Sincerely, Wayne Hills

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6182	From: Michael Greene	Date: 12/5/1999
Subject: Another successful weekend of running S gauge trains

We just wrapped up another enjoyable weekend of running S trains. The Bristol Club had it modular layout in operation at this weekend at the Greenberg show in Wilmington, MA. The beautiful weather this weekend (in the 50's which is a little unusual for December in Massachusetts) brought out a lot of club members and a lot of show attendees. And everyone seemed to have a good time. Most of the weekend there were at least 4 trains running simultaneously -- two on the inner loop and two on the outer loop. And for a while on Sunday afternoon we had 4 operators and 6 trains running -- and still had some opportunities for a couple of more operators to switch some cars in a yard or two. Much of the weekend we had DCC controlled operation in process, with trains equipped with sound and/or smoke. The combination of lots of action, lots of sound, and lots of smoke clearly drew the interest of both young and old alike. Included in the action were whistles-blaring, smoking steamers passing on the trestle, two of the new Pennsylvania Heritage Model RDC's serving passengers on the line, an Amtrak passenger train led by two F40PHs, a freight led by an SHS SW-9 pulling a string of cars including a Christmas car, and of course Santa & Mrs Claus waving from the rear platform of the caboose, two other freights sporting custom painted locos for the B&M and Bangor & Aroostook, a New Haven steam passenger special, and of course the various buttons that let the kids blow the horns and whistles, and light the grade crossing lights... The fun world of S... Michael PS I did notice that on Saturday the building mgmt turned on the external air circulating fans. Noticed that the ones at our end of the building were on, while the others were not -- perhaps it was all the smoke generated by S gauge steam locomotives :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6183	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/5/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6184	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 12/5/1999
Subject: S scale model of Cincinnati

After attending a rather disappointing GATS in Cincinnati yesterday, I went to the Cincinnati History Museum to check on their new 1/64th model of 1940's downtown Cincinnati. The model, as now exhibited, is a work in progress with holes where unfinished buildings belong. There are also large segments representing other city neighborhoods that bordered downtown which are missing entirely. The first thing you are struck by is the size. There are currently two sections, downtown and the west end with Union Terminal. As you enter the museum the display is slightly below you, but the model of the 48 story Carew Tower still looms high overhead. The trains in the current modules are confined to the sidings that served the produce dealers along the riverfront and the passenger and freight lines serving Union Terminal. The Concourse at the terminal has been considerably foreshortened so the it serves only four tracks. (If I remember correctly, that the original concourse which, sadly, was demolished some years ago in order to build an intermodal facility, served over twenty tracks. The trains at the terminal run on tracks about fifteen feet long and go out and back repeatedly. There are two complete AM pacific sets with heavyweights running, one in Southern Colors and one B & O. There is also an AF 282 pulling freight. The 282 with C&NW markings is a bit out of place as that railroad never served Cincinnati; A 312 or 322 would have been more appropriate. Rolling stock, with the exception of the AM heavyweights appears to be a mix of flyer and modern. There are also several SHS SW-9's in NYC livery, both at the terminal and the produce yards. Operation on the riverfront is also repeated out and back. The setup is high rail with flyer couplers and I would guess, DC power. Most of the track appears to me AM flex. but there are some switches for which, if they are not hand laid, I would love to have the name of the supplier. The gem of the model is the traction system. There are currently accurate models of several different Cincinnati Car Company prototypes decorated for Cincinnati Street Railway. These run around the downtown and along the riverfront continually except for an occasional stop. I would love to have the space in my basement to build a setup the size of this traction model. The cars have custom bodies on chassis from locomotives, maybe AM switchers or more of the SW-9's. Since the cars have clear windows, you can see the works. They have a can motor driving both trucks. Admittedly, this is mostly a model of Cincinnati rather than a train set, but it is none the less an impressive effort. I am looking forward to seeing it completed.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6185	From: AFSTrains@aol.com	Date: 12/6/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 457

Congratulations to Doug and Cil Peck, new grandparents of a 6lb 14oz baby boy.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6186	From: yorke@xxxx.xxx	Date: 12/6/1999
Subject: (no subject)

The 'shared files section' of S-Trains list is on the onelist.com site. Log onto onelist, http://onelist.com and as a list subscriber you will have access to the S-Trains shared files. The first time in, it will cost you some information. Nothing is 'free'. --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using ebox.net by ValueWeb. http://www.ebox.net

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6187	From: Bill Clark	Date: 12/6/1999
Subject: Bristol Club at Greenberg

As a follow-up to Mike Greene's note on the Greenberg show last weekend, I've posted a few pictures. They are at: Photo Album: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=82462&a=1206143 AOL Users: <a href="http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=82462&a=1206143">Click Here</a> Bill

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6188	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/6/1999
Subject: A Kid Again

You know what came in the mail today? Something that used to come every year about this time. Something that has been missing in my life. Once the weather got cold, I knew my American Flyer catalog would be in the mailbox any day. Today, it came. It's called the Showcase Line catalog now, but who cares?! Thanks, Don. Whoo, whoooooo, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6189	From: Mellon, Jay E.	Date: 12/6/1999
Subject: Modified AF Hudson

'S'ers, Since some of you expressed interest in the flyer piece I mentioned in a recent post, I will elaborate a bit. The fellow who modified it is our local AF Wizard, Norman Maunz, one of the founding members of our club. Since he subscribes to this list, I will leave it to him for a complete description of his modifications. He has put a lot of effort into it, but the end product was well worth it. First, he completely re-designed the drive/gearing system of the model so the piston which produces the chuff sound runs through 3.7 cycles per rotation of the drivers (prototype is 4). This included scratch-building a new chassis for the engine. As I recall, he used the original AF motor with attached worm gear. He also modified the fit of the piston in the cylinder so that the tolerances were much closer. This modification considerably amplified the volume level of the chuff sound (choo-choo). Now, it can be heard 80 ft. away from the layout (based on its most recent outing at a show). Norman also installed a new wick in the smoke unit and reduced the resistance (29 from 35 ohms) of the heating element, so that it would get hotter. This combination of modifications produced lung-searing smoke capacity. I will stop with this brief summary of his work. Again, I will leave it to him for further details on this project. Hope this helps a bit. 'S'incerely, Jay Mellon Crescent City S Gaugers New Orleans, LA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6190	From: Bill Clark	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: Re: A Kid Again SHS Catalog

Me too! Every catalog has been better than the last, and this one is wonderful! Robin, Don, and Mike and the folks who helped them have done a truly excellent job. I spent over an hour last night just savoring every page. I wish I had a bigger layout so that I could buy one of everything! But as Chris said, the catalog itself is a highpoint of the year! Thanks SHS! Bill At 06:02 PM 12/6/99 -0500, you wrote: >From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > >You know what came in the mail today? Something that used to come every >year about this time. Something that has been missing in my life. > >Once the weather got cold, I knew my American Flyer catalog would be in the >mailbox any day. > >Today, it came. It's called the Showcase Line catalog now, but who cares?! > >Thanks, Don. > >Whoo, whoooooo, >Chris Zizzo >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6191	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: Faster rev than fwd - - timing

I compared used and new postwar ACG AF steamer flat-commutator armatures last night. The all have the same commutator-segment to winding-section orientation. No commutators showed any signs of shifting from their factory settings. In fact many still have adhesive bridging across the segments to sections along their edges. The orientation they all have in common - - face the commutators, rotate the armature so that one winding-section gap is at 12 o'clock, then the other two winding-section gaps are at 4 and 8 o'clock respectively, and the commutator segment gaps are at 3, 7 and 11 o'clock. Something tells me this quirky syndrome (faster in rev than fwd) develops from one of the following three reasons 1) wear of the worm gear, 2) degradation of the brush to comm interface, and 3) possibly some rotationally induced wear or partially grounding of the armature winding wires (but that seems hard to fathom). Please serve up your ideas, ways to check/inspect, discoveries, solutions, but for now a new armature seems the best way to put an engine with this problem back on the main line. Thanks.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6192	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: Catalog.

Hey, how come I didn't get one? Who, I mean where do I send money for one? I wanna feel like a kid too! Come on fellas, help me out here!!!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6193	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: transformers

More help needed. If anyone has a three-rail Flyer set, what transformer came with it and who made the transformer? Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6194	From: softmoods@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: Backshop E-Mail List

Hi All, From another list I belong to. Might be of interest to some. Thanks for the time. > >Although it's four days tardy, this is the monthly reminder to all >listmembers that 'The Backshop' is a dedicated sales list provided free of >charge as a place for members of all railfan lists to post sales, swap or >want ads. The list is set up so that you post to it once and all replies >are automatically directed back to the poster. 'The Backshop' has over 425 >members and has a great success rate. All items even remotely connected >with railroads, railfanning and model railroading are welcome at The >Backshop. > >To subscribe on-line: >http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/backshop > Robert Sherwood

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6195	From: Bill Porter	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] track expansion and Directional Armatures

Hi Keith and the Brethren, The cross section of the rail should have no effect on the need for expansion joints. If the railroad is in a place where the temperature changes - or where the humidity changes might affect the benchwork - you need some way for the rails to adjust. The phenomenon of locos that run differently in different directions is not limited to Flyer, scale, S, AC nor to DC. I have experienced it in Z scale, N scale, HO scale, Flyer, S Scale, Bachman G, slot cars (all under DC) and Lionel (AC Powered) accessories. The area for research might be focused on mechanical wear considerations. Later, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: Keith B. Thompson - Sun <thompson@...> To: S-Scale@onelist.com <S-Scale@onelist.com> Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 12:37 PM Subject: [S-Scale] track expansion >From: thompson@... (Keith B. Thompson - Sun) > > > >Hi, > >I hate to deviate from the "Best RR" discussion, which >i find amusing in that only non-PRR folks would think >to discuss such a thing ;) > >Anywho, i'm interested in peoples experiences with >track (rail) expansion due to temp. I was thinking that >since S is bigger (larger rail, larger tolerances etc) >it might not be the problem it was in HO. But >also with larger rail there is more mass to expand? > >My main concern is several large loops of code 100 >flex track that i have soldered at the joints. Should >i go back a cut some expansion joints? > >thanks, >kbt >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6196	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: Re: Catalog.

Dear Cbtrainnut, You too can feel like a kid again with the new 48 page full color The Showcase Line 2000 catalog. These can be ordered on line: http://www.showcaseline.com/ordercatalog.html , via fax 1-732-545-8303 , by phone 1-800-465-0303 or via US mail at S Helper Service, 2 Roberts Rd., New Brunswick, NJ 08901. The cost to you is $3.00, amazingly the cost to S Helper Service is actually a lot more. (postage $1.87, printing $0.64, production $0.50, shipping [to us $0.74, advertising $0.46 for each issue). Looking forward to hearing from you regarding making you feel like a kid again. Best regards, Don Thompson Cbtrainnut@... wrote: > From: Cbtrainnut@... > > Hey, how come I didn't get one? Who, I mean where do I send money for one? I > wanna feel like a kid too! Come on fellas, help me out here!!!!! -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 2nd batch of SW-9s, Starter Sets and 2000 catalogs are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6197	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 12/7/1999
Subject: catalog

I also got my SHS catalog in the mail yesterday along with Chris and a few others...what a GREAT CATALOG, great professional photography, beautiful engines and cars, wonderful layout and design, and a feel of the colorful toy train catalogs of A.C. Gilbert in days gone by. Got my juices flowing...hmmmm wonder what i should buy next? Wayne Broadhead

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6198	From: Mark Preman	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: American Flyer Trains For Sale

OK sports fans........ The New List is up for the holidays! Print a copy of the list, circle the "important" pieces and place the list(with my e-mail address or phone number showing) in a conspicuous location. This website is definitely "wife-friendly"! Seriously, I want to thank you all for great year in "S" gauge trains and wish you a new millenium full of good stuff. Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukka, Happy New Year, Happy almost a new millenium, etc....... Mark B. Preman http:www.americanflyertrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6199	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: SW-9

Took delivery of a brand new Illinois Central Gulf SW-9 from S-Helper yesterday. It's a beauty and runs great! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6200	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: 1/64 scale cars from Playboy

I am not sure how many are interested but in the January issue of Playboy magazine ( I read it for the articles) there is an advertisement for 1/64 scale cars honoring the 12 monthly playmates. The cars are very detailed but not offensive. I think they would definetely be a conversation piece on any A.F Layout and at $9.95ea + shipping it's not a bad deal. If interested the phone number is 1-877-383-2277 Ben

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6201	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: Turnouts

- Greeting`S' - Good folk, help! I am looking for #6 or #8 turnouts compatible with American Flyer wheels. This suggests closed frog construction. If you have favorite switches having the same property as my Devore couplers [for a long time now - made of unobtainium}, the brand will be interesting, but not useful. What I would really like to hear are the success stories with presently available turnouts. Any volunteers? Cheer`S' Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6202	From: Lamont Cranston	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: #6/#8 turnouts

Rhett and all.... we have had good to very good success with a modification of pikemaster switches pls note g-vg not excellent however we are talking about ALOT of work!!! we have even constructed a 22 degree x-over!!???!!!! if this is interesting pls reply and i can elaborate... perhaps this could turn into an article that the magazines are so desperate for... and then in turn apply to my MMR requirements (ha ha ha) regard'S' Clay who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men??? Clay Buckage Dave's Twacks & Twains Box 109 734 Prospect Street Tatamy, Pa. 18085 TCA, NASG, TTOS, NMRA cbuckage@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6203	From: Jeffrey Burnatowski,GRI,CRS,CBA	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: K Mart

Hi, I wanted to pass this along....I went to K Mart the other day....Hot wheels put out a forklift which is pretty close to scale for only $.75 it came with a funky color scheme...I hit it with flat black paint...it looks great on the layout....

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6204	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: Re: Turnouts

Try some BK switches made of code 148 rail with closing frogs. We use these on our club modules to run both scale and AF thru the same switches. However, they are a kit, need to be hand spiked and often require tweaking to get right. We operate them with both Tortoise switch machines and Caboose industries O scale ground throws. "Rhett T. George" wrote: > > From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...> > > - Greeting`S' - > > Good folk, help! I am looking for #6 or #8 turnouts compatible with > American Flyer wheels. This suggests closed frog construction. If > you have favorite switches having the same property as my Devore > couplers [for a long time now - made of unobtainium}, the brand will > be interesting, but not useful. > > What I would really like to hear are the success stories with presently > available turnouts. Any volunteers? > > Cheer`S' > > Rhett George > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6205	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/8/1999
Subject: Re: 1/64 scale cars from Playboy

Ben, Articles??? There's Articles?!!!! ;-) (Actually, I haven't seen a PB in years, but there's some mighty interesting calendars at my friend's machine shop! (You should see the finish on that Chinese 4-4-0!--what? you thought the calendars had pictures of something else?) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6206	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: non-whistling billboard

What will cause a whistling billboard to whistle one minute then not make the whistle noise the next? Took the chamber apart to see what was obstrucing the holes and it was clear as a bell, I mean whistle, I mean there wasn't anything blocking any of the openings. The motor still seems to be turning the same rpm's when I press the button. I'm using the fixed voltage on a 15B to power the whistle. Also have a second whistle hooked up to the same 15B and it still works just fine. This is the billboard with two lights at the base. They are working fine also. I'm stumped1 Thanks, Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6207	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: Digest Number 460

Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com > From: Cbtrainnut@... Subject: non-whistling billboard to power the whistle. Also have a second whistle hooked up to the same 15B and it still works just fine. This is the billboard with two lights at the base. They are working fine also. I'm stumped1 Thanks, Chris Burger >> Chris, Sounds as if the impellor may be loose on the armature shaft? charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6208	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: non-whistling billboard

- Greeting`S' - Chris (Cbtrainnut@...) posed an interesting problem. From the description, it appears that the motor runs every time the button is pushed, but the whistle does not blow every time. If I remember, the air intake is on the bottom where suction can pick up something that shuts off the air flow. Might this be happening, Chris? Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6209	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: Re: non-whistling billboard

Chris, Two things may have happened. 1) Impeller loose on shaft (usually this makes other noises, though. 2) Chambers not sealed. It doesn't take much of a leak for the whistle to loose it's whistle. For those who run "the other sized trains" with these units in the tender, this problem is quite common. Amazing what a little "gasket goo" does. (There is a "make-a-gasket" stuff out there that does miracles, it's not the usual RTV stuff, but comes in a small aerosol can, rather expensive, and extrudes a rubber-like substance. It is used to assemble modern Auto motors without gaskets (I've used it on Model T's and it can really help cure their perpetual "oil depositing" problems--anyone familiar with that will know this is an amazing statement, just somewhat short of "Dr. Zick's Amazing Liver Oil" claims to cure all ills.) The one good thing about the can, is that is seems to keep the stuff in useable condition for a long time, you just have to pull out the plug that forms in the nozzle before each use. I had one can I used for over a year with no problems (well, except it ran out in the middle of the last little job I wanted to do!). I've not yet tried it on an AF whistle unit, but I'm sure it would do the trick. Don't know what it's called, comes in a black can, ask at your auto parts store. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6210	From: Peter Ervin	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: On3 Passenger Cars

I'm behind in my message reading so I hope this isn't a subject people are currently discussing. I visited M. B. Klein Trains in Baltimore yesterday and picked up an On3 trolly for $35. It has HO trucks. I'll probably leave them on and run it around a town scene. I also noticed that they had old time On3 passenger cars for around $30. They looked great, except for the HO trucks. If these were converted to S trucks, how prototypical would the result be? Peter Ervin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6211	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: busses

I have found an inexpensive toy bus that is suitable, if not perfect, for S layouts. They are slightly oversize semi-European prototype, but it looks like a GM bus from the late 50's, especially from the rear. They measure out at about 43' long, 12' high and 10' wide. There is non-American lettering on the four color schemes I saw, but the steering wheel is on the correct side. They look good in front of a Flyer Union Station. They have metal roofs and bodies, plastic undercarriages, full interiors, and opening doors. The side window panel, perhaps the least American looking features, appear to be removeable. I think they look quite nice. All they saw on the bottom is "made in China. I bought two from a street vendor for $6 each. I don't know that you'd find them in a large chain store. This type of toy seems to be distributed to street vendors, uggage and souvenir shops, and other independent stores that carry some extremely inexpensive toys. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6212	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: Re: On3 Passenger Cars

Peter, Hmm, well HO works out to very close to 3-1/2 foot gauge, used for SF cable cars, LA downtown street cars, and numerous other stuff. I once kitbashed two SF Cable Car models into a "non-descript" street car, used a cheap HO dismal chassis under it, and ran it through my "downtown". Although the S stuff ran fine on my sectional tables, the trolley never did, kept falling off the track, like HO likes to do if it isn't nailed down. Maybe the new track systems would work better for this. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6213	From: Richard	Date: 12/9/1999
Subject: Re: busses

Tom ANy chance of a pic..posted to this sites files area..or direct!! cheers >:~)) Richard Jarcho wrote: > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > I have found an inexpensive toy bus that is suitable, if not perfect, for S > layouts. They are slightly oversize semi-European prototype, but it looks > like a GM bus from the late 50's, especially from the rear. They measure > out at about 43' long, 12' high and 10' wide. There is non-American > lettering on the four color schemes I saw, but the steering wheel is on the > correct side. They look good in front of a Flyer Union Station. They have > metal roofs and bodies, plastic undercarriages, full interiors, and opening > doors. The side window panel, perhaps the least American looking features, > appear to be removeable. I think they look quite nice. > > All they saw on the bottom is "made in China. I bought two from a street > vendor for $6 each. > > I don't know that you'd find them in a large chain store. This type of toy > seems to be distributed to street vendors, uggage and souvenir shops, and > other independent stores that carry some extremely inexpensive toys. > Tom Jarcho >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6214	From: Rosiep3@aol.com	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: No cow catcher

Just bought an AF 290 Steamer at a meet here in Denver. The cow catcher has been cleanly snapped off. I don't think I could have sawed it off any better. The thing's in nice shape otherwise. Any practical, good looking, or creative ideas as to how to replace it? Andy Betts, Wheat Ridge, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6215	From: Charles L. Day	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Digest Number 461

Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> Subject: Re: non-whistling billboard Chris, Two things may have happened. 1) Impeller loose on shaft (usually this makes other noises, though. 2) Chambers not sealed. It doesn't take much of a leak for the whistle to loose it's whistle. For those who run "the other sized trains" with these units in the tender, this problem is quite common. Amazing what a little "gasket goo" does. (There is a "make-a-gasket" stuff out there that does < David & Chris, A tube of clear, 100% silicon sealant works as well for sealing air chambers. You can even use your finger to spread it around! Never forget your silicon and WD-40. And, if nothing else works try velcro! Three of the most important inventions in the last 50 years! charles day

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6216	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Slugish K325

Checked the brush tension and the finger tension on the drum of the e-unit and both were ok. So I took some electronic spray cleaner from work and sprayed on the comutator and e-unit. OH MY! You should have seen the nasty black grime come off onto the rag. Put a drop pf oil where it belonged, since I probably took evey bit of that off when I sprayed it. Put the engine on the track and it ran like a new one!!! Thanks to all for the help! Now I need to know where I can get a replacement speaker for the same engine. I tried a 1an1/8" speaker that was 8 ohm's with an input wattage of .1to .2 watts and a frequency range of: Fo to 4000 Hz impedance at 1kHz is 27mA. This didn't make much noise at all. Any ideas? Thanks ,Chris

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6217	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: no cowcatcher

Take a look at the pilot truck. Someone may have removed the pilot in order to attach a working coupler to the front of the loco to run 2 locos together. You can work out a way to do this yourself if you like -- the pilot's already out of the way. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6218	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: SMOKE UNITS

Hi everyone, I am working on rebuiding a smoke unit. I have read FAQ sheets about this, and also the instructions in the bag of the new wick, but i don't see how to reduce OHMS. I know i have read about checking the OHMS across the wire, and it should be between 30-45. BUT AT WHAT POINTS DO YOU MEASURE? To check Ohms of a wire, you clip one lead of the meter to the end of the wire, then the other lead you hook on the other end of the wire. So now, you get a reading, and lets say it is higher than you want, say 45. How do you reduce the OHMS if it reads 45? I have heard you unwrap a loop of the wick on both ends, but i don't see AT ALL how that is going to reduce OHMS. OR do you connect the meter leads to the little metal "connectors" at the top of the fiber board where the nichrome wire comes thru and wraps around? Can ya'll help me out here. Thanks, Wayne Broadhead

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6219	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Whistle fixes

Charles, I try to avoid the use of the "s" word (note lower case, we're not talking about "S"--a whole 'nother matter!) as it does nasty things around paint, etc. It will also cause your early plastic cars to craze (any, actuall, the others just take longer to effect)! Anyway, that's the material I was alluding to when I stated "Gasket goo." ;-) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6220	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Re: SMOKE UNITS

To measure the resistance of the smoke unit you should connect the test leads across the lugs that the nichrome wire is wound around. The aim is to measure the resistance of the wire between the power connections. To reduce the ohms the length of wire between the connections needs to be shortened by using less turns around the wick and this will leave more nichrome wire sticking out the holes which should then be wrapped around the lugs. You could spread out the wire and measure at varying spots with the test leads to get a good approximation of the length needed and then add an extra amount at each end for winding around the lugs. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6221	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: smoke units

The wire in smoke unit coils is resistance wire. The longer the wire, the more the resistance. So, when you unwind a coil or two, it lowers the resistance, meaning less ohms. You want to find a balance between too much wire, making a greater resistance, which will make the coil not hot enough, and too little wire. In this case the wire will soon overheat and burn out. Spread the coils of the unit apart carefully -- they must not touch each other or the coil will soon burn out. Measure resistance by touching each probe to one end of the wire about where it will contact the solder lugs in the cover. The lugs themselves can be assumed to have zero resistance. This way, you can measure resistance with the top plate off. Hope this helps. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6222	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 461

If there is any metal in the item that can rust or oxidize the silicon will cause it to do so. Larry Charles L. Day wrote: > From: "Charles L. Day" <DayOne@...> > > Message text written by INTERNET:S-Trains@onelist.com > > From: "David Dewey" <djdewey@...> > Subject: Re: non-whistling billboard > > Chris, > Two things may have happened. > 1) Impeller loose on shaft (usually this makes other noises, though. > 2) Chambers not sealed. It doesn't take much of a leak for the whistle to > loose it's whistle. For those who run "the other sized trains" with these > units in the tender, this problem is quite common. Amazing what a little > "gasket goo" does. (There is a "make-a-gasket" stuff out there that does > < > > David & Chris, > > A tube of clear, 100% silicon sealant works as well for sealing air > chambers. You can even use your finger to spread it around! > > Never forget your silicon and WD-40. And, if nothing else works try velcro! > Three of the most important inventions in the last 50 years! > > charles day > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6223	From: ROGER HINDS	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Power drops

> > Hi Guy's ; > In regards to power drops at track sections; > > Even though you read 18 volts from one section to the next > you can still have a power drop. This is caused by a > pinpoint connection which allows the voltage through but > not when there is a load. You cannot get enough amps > through the tiny connection with the 18 volts. Thus you have > sluggish power in that section of track. > I put a kink (by bending) in the pin which makes for a > tighter connection. > I just had an interesting thought. Welders have a way > of cleaning out the tiny holes in their torch heads. They > have a tiny file in the shape of a wire. I wonder if that > would help in cleaning the holes in the end of the AF track? > > Thoughts on this ??? > > Roger > > Swing and sway the "S" guage way. :o) > > http://www.travel.to/cofa/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6224	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, December 12, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6225	From: Richard McClary	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Re: busses

I just got a pair of tin busses that scale out to about 40' long, ~9.5' wide and ~12' high in S. They would probably look great by a Mystic station. They are from Kovap in the Czech Republic. See Tim's Tiny Tin Toys (http://www.timstoys.com). They have little on their web site, but they will get a catalog out to you very quickly. (They also get their toys out quickly as well.) The pair they carry are Czech National (yellow) and Deutsche National (red); $12 each or $20 for the pair. Jarcho wrote: > > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > I have found an inexpensive toy bus that is suitable, if not perfect, for S > layouts. They are slightly oversize semi-European prototype, but it looks > like a GM bus from the late 50's, especially from the rear. They measure > out at about 43' long, 12' high and 10' wide. There is non-American > lettering on the four color schemes I saw, but the steering wheel is on the > correct side. They look good in front of a Flyer Union Station. They have > metal roofs and bodies, plastic undercarriages, full interiors, and opening > doors. The side window panel, perhaps the least American looking features, > appear to be removeable. I think they look quite nice. > > All they saw on the bottom is "made in China. I bought two from a street > vendor for $6 each. > > I don't know that you'd find them in a large chain store. This type of toy > seems to be distributed to street vendors, uggage and souvenir shops, and > other independent stores that carry some extremely inexpensive toys. > Tom Jarcho > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6226	From: MWelbornjr@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: AF Question...

Is it possible for the cord of a 1956 AF transformer to react funny with the plastic of an AF flatcar and melt the plastic. I noticed this on a piece where the gray cord was laying on the edge of a flatcar for years and the plastic was melted???????????? Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6227	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 12/10/1999
Subject: Re: AF Question...

Anything is possible. I could be that the plasticizer in the cord plasticized the car. Roger MWelbornjr@... wrote: > From: MWelbornjr@... > > Is it possible for the cord of a 1956 AF transformer to react funny with the > plastic of an AF flatcar and melt the plastic. > > I noticed this on a piece where the gray cord was laying on the edge of a > flatcar for years and the plastic was melted???????????? > > Michael > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6228	From: Steve Roche	Date: 12/11/1999
Subject: Seaboard Coaler wiring

Happy Holidays everyone. As I carefully unpack and setup my Flyer, I am amazed at engines and accessories that worked perfectly when carefully put away in an air conditioned envirornment require TLC to get them working one more year. Oh well. My question of this esteemed body (or at least steamed) is wiring of my recently purchased 752 Seaboard coaler. Several of the wires were detached when recieved. The motor and clamshell work fine, but I have yet to figure out how to wire it to the control button (2 button) to make the motor reverse. I have 4 wires. LS of motor has a lead from brush and a lead from field. RS of motor has wire from field to brush. Control button has 5 contacts. I can make the motor reverse manually by changing my leads around, but my control cannot duplicate my actions. Would appreciate the help. Now back to wiring up my layout. Steve Roche

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6229	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/11/1999
Subject: Steam Whistles (12in=1ft)

http://search.npr.org/cf/cmn/cmnps05fm.cfm?SegID=67736 LOST AND FOUND SOUND: West Virginia Steam Trains "There is nothing quite like a steam whistle..." National Public Radio had an interesting segment on steam trains. If you are on other railfan lists you might want to share this link with them. Just mention you saw it on the S-Trains@... S Gauge list. Enjoy -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6230	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/11/1999
Subject: Re: for Tom Jarcho

Sorry for this personal message...... Tom: for some reason my email to you is getting returned "user unknown", despite correct email address. ?????? Doug

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6231	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/11/1999
Subject: Re: Power drops

-- ROGER HINDS <cofa@...> wrote: > > Even though you read 18 volts from one section to the next > > you can still have a power drop. This is caused by a > > pinpoint connection which allows the voltage through but > > not when there is a load. You cannot get enough amps > > through the tiny connection with the 18 volts. Thus you have > > sluggish power in that section of track. That's why it's better to test track with an Ohmmeter. Turn the transformer power off while doing so (or else the meter's fuse might blow) and measure the resistance between points on the tracks. There should only be about 1 OHM or less measured from any spot to any other spot on the track or transformer connectors. It's a good idea to try pressing down on parts of the track while taking the readings in order to simulate a train's weight since sometimes this can cause an intermittent connection. If the meter fluctuates or shows a high resistance the test leads should be moved closer together to narrow in on the bad connection. I like to put a curved hump in pins by holding the track on a flat surface and forcibly lifting and rotating the end of the pin with a needle-nose pliers. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6232	From: Tom and Louise	Date: 12/11/1999
Subject: Re: Power drops

ROGER HINDS wrote: > > From: ROGER HINDS <cofa@...> > > > > > Hi Guy's ; > > In regards to power drops at track sections; > > > > Even though you read 18 volts from one section to the next > > you can still have a power drop. This is caused by a > > pinpoint connection which allows the voltage through but > > not when there is a load. You cannot get enough amps > > through the tiny connection with the 18 volts. Thus you have > > sluggish power in that section of track. > > I put a kink (by bending) in the pin which makes for a > > tighter connection. > > I just had an interesting thought. Welders have a way > > of cleaning out the tiny holes in their torch heads. They > > have a tiny file in the shape of a wire. I wonder if that > > would help in cleaning the holes in the end of the AF track? > > > > Thoughts on this ??? > > > > Roger > > > > Swing and sway the "S" guage way. :o) > > > > http://www.travel.to/cofa/ > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm Good thinking...I have been using a 'torch cleaner', (which is what ou described) for some tome. Be careful, though...don't overdue it by filing...otherwise you might elongate the holes, and the pins become sloppy....believe me I foound out the hard way. TOM

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6233	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/11/1999
Subject: Re: AF Question...

In a message dated 12/10/99 11:39:17 PM, MWelbornjr@... writes: << Is it possible for the cord of a 1956 AF transformer to react funny with the plastic of an AF flatcar and melt the plastic. I noticed this on a piece where the gray cord was laying on the edge of a flatcar for years and the plastic was melted? >> Yes. The plasticizer for the vinyl insulating material for 50's wire can migrate from the cord to what is in contact with it and soften the finish of the object. The plasticizer can locally soften and deform plastic and paint on sheet metal items. For example, did you ever notice that lamp posts and control buttons can have ridges "melted" into them because they were stored with the wire wrapped around the post? RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6234	From: Stephen V. Anderson	Date: 12/12/1999
Subject: 785 Seabord Coaler

Hello "S" Gaugers, I have been an avid reader of the S trains one list for quite some time now. It has been an unbelievable source of information for me.It seems that if your are having a problem someone out there seems to have an answer to their respective problem.This will be my first request for help.Here goes....I purchased an American Flyer 785 seaboard coal loader junker with intentions of restoring it. It was complete except for the base and support legs. I have exhausted all conventional resources for obtaining these two pieces. Does anyone out there have either of these parts sitting in their junk boxes collecting dust? I would be more than happy to purchase or trade for either of these pieces. Any help would be greatly appreciated.Thanks Steve Bulamatare1@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6235	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/12/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, December 12, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6236	From: ROGER HINDS	Date: 12/12/1999
Subject: Re: AF Question...

Huh ! HMmmm ! The question below rings a bell. Seems to me I have seen the same situation years ago. I think t > Is it possible for the cord of a 1956 AF transformer to react funny with the > plastic of an AF flatcar and melt the plastic. > > I noticed this on a piece where the gray cord was laying on the edge of a > flatcar for years and the plastic was melted???????????? > > Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6237	From: ROGER HINDS	Date: 12/12/1999
Subject: [Fwd: Re: AF Question...]

Huh ! HMmmm ! The question below rings a bell. Seems to me I have seen the same situation years ago. I think there is something to Mikes thought. I think there are negative chemical reactions when plastic meets other items. I have seen rubber items kind of melt on its own some- how. I guess it is a sort of oxidation. Wish I had more info. Roger > > > Is it possible for the cord of a 1956 AF transformer to react funny with the > > plastic of an AF flatcar and melt the plastic. > > > > I noticed this on a piece where the gray cord was laying on the edge of a > > flatcar for years and the plastic was melted???????????? > > > > Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6238	From: Marty Cook	Date: 12/12/1999
Subject: Reference Books

I've been trying to locate a series of toy train reference books, the sum total of what I know about them being the last name of their author. I've heard mention in several toy train videos about "the O'Brian books" (perhaps spelled "O'Brien"?). Does anyone know of these books? Are they still in print? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! Marty Cook TCA# 95-41425

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6239	From: Marty Cook	Date: 12/12/1999
Subject: Reference Books

Seems as though I may have answered at least a part of my question in an earlier post. Oh, well... keep diggin' and you're bound to find the answers! In a post dated 08 Dec 1999 on the Tinplate Trains Digest, Lou Lauderbaugh mentioned "Collecting Toy Trains" by Richard O'Brian. So, part of the mystery is solved. I can now search by author and find out if there are other books written by the same fellow on the topic of toy trains! Marty Cook TCA# 95-41425

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6240	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Re: Reference Books

Richard O'Brien has written a number of books on collecting including Collecting Foreign-Made Toy Soldiers, Collecting American-Made Toy Soldiers, Collecting Toy Cars and Trucks, and Collecting Toy Trains. His books can be obtained from krause publications (800) 258-0929. Roger Marty Cook wrote: > From: Marty Cook <mcook@...> > > Seems as though I may have answered at least a part of my > question in an earlier post. Oh, well... keep diggin' and you're > bound to find the answers! > In a post dated 08 Dec 1999 on the Tinplate Trains Digest, > Lou Lauderbaugh mentioned "Collecting Toy Trains" by Richard O'Brian. > So, part of the mystery is solved. I can now search by author > and find out if there are other books written by the same fellow on > the topic of toy trains! > Marty Cook > TCA# 95-41425 > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6241	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Smoke Unit resistance.

Thanks to Tom and Scott for answering my question about resistance in smoke units. I will be getting back to the project soon and will test it out. Wayne

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6242	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: American Models Sale

American Models is having a sale on: S-12 switchers; Amtrak F-40 locomotives and sets; trailer hauler sets; tank cars; 3 bay covered hoppers; 50' boxcars; and 40' semi-trailers. Prices are approx. 20-25% off list. I wasn't aware of this until last week when I saw an eBay item listing that mentioned the sale. Go to their website: www.americanmodels.com and click on the SALE block at the bottom of their homepage. If someone is a member of the S scale list you might want to forward this over there, as I'm not a member of that list. (Note to TCA list people - this is S gauge) Regards, Roger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6243	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: replacement speaker

- Greeting`S' - Pleased to learn that Chris has gotten the slugs out of his K325. With no manual to look at in the office, I only guess that there is a capacitor in series with the new speaker and that it is an electrolytic. It may have dried up internally which will get rid of most of the capacitance. Try replacing it. On the other hand, the speaker specs are peculiar. Fo is ordinarily the oscillation frequency for a wave generator. Fo = 4000 Hz is typical rating of a small electronic alarm. Impedance at 1 kHz = 27 `somethings' when the impedance was already given as 8 ohms doesn't sound right. And current is measured in mA, not imped- ance. Might this be an alarm device, not a speaker? Cheer`S' Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6244	From: Bristol, Kirk	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Re: replacement speaker

Fo is the resonance frequency of the speaker. Woofers have resonances down around 45 Hz while a smaller 4" speaker might have a resonance of 75 Hz. 4,000 Hz is a really high resonance, this speaker is probably setup as a tweeter, which may be why you're not getting any good sound out of it. The impedance may be rated as 8 ohms, but the impedance is not constant, it changes with frequency. The reported impedance is the minimum impedance of the speaker. The impedance could certainly be 27 ohms at 1 kHz. The impedance is measured in ohms, not mA. Any speaker this small will definitely need a capacitor in-line with one of its leads. The capacitor is a passive filter that will filter out the lower frequencies that might otherwise damage the speaker. Rhett is right that there might be a problem with the capacitor. You might want to try running leads directly to the speaker and bypass the capacitor to see if that fixes things. If that fails, look for the largest speaker with the lowest Fo that you can fit in the engine to get the best overall sound. Lower impedances will also give you more output, but at the expense of taxing the amplifier. Kirk Bristol kbristol@... > -----Original Message----- > From: Rhett T. George [SMTP:rtg@...] > Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 1:34 PM > To: S-Trains@onelist.com > Subject: [S-Trains] replacement speaker > > From: "Rhett T. George" <rtg@...> > > - Greeting`S' - > > Pleased to learn that Chris has gotten the slugs out of his K325. With > no manual to look at in the office, I only guess that there is a capacitor > in series with the new speaker and that it is an electrolytic. It may > have dried up internally which will get rid of most of the capacitance. > Try replacing it. On the other hand, the speaker specs are peculiar. > Fo is ordinarily the oscillation frequency for a wave generator. > Fo = 4000 Hz is typical rating of a small electronic alarm. Impedance > at 1 kHz = 27 `somethings' when the impedance was already given as > 8 ohms doesn't sound right. And current is measured in mA, not imped- > ance. Might this be an alarm device, not a speaker? > > Cheer`S' > > Rhett

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6245	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: replacement speakers

Most parts dealers carry a replacement speaker that will fit in steam loco tenders and sometimes PA's. The tough one to replace is the smaller speaker in the GP-7's. Radio shack has a small speaker that can be fitted in tenders. If the speaker is too large, you can grind it down with a grinding wheel, as long as enough of the rim is left intact to hold things together. The capacitor is often found dried out or otherwise dead. You can simply wrap the leads of a new one around the leads of the old one. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6246	From: Bilfrazier@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Re: 785 loader

In a message dated 12/13/99 6:05:31 AM EST, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << Message: 1 Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:56:57 -0500 From: "Stephen V. Anderson" <bulamatare1@...> Subject: 785 Seabord Coaler Hello "S" Gaugers, I have been an avid reader of the S trains one list for quite some time now. It has been an unbelievable source of information for me.It seems that if your are having a problem someone out there seems to have an answer to their respective problem.This will be my first request for help.Here goes....I purchased an American Flyer 785 seaboard coal loader junker with intentions of restoring it. It was complete except for the base and support legs. I have exhausted all conventional resources for obtaining these two pieces. Does anyone out there have either of these parts sitting in their junk boxes collecting dust? I would be more than happy to purchase or trade for either of these pieces. Any help would be greatly appreciated.Thanks Steve Bulamatare1@... >> _____________________________________________ The support legs and wooden pads are the same as used on the 596 water tank. These might be easier to find as junk. Bill Frazier

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6247	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: American Flyer Rules

Someone recently send me a link to their site. The site displayed his web page horizontal seperators (aka rules) featuring classic Flyer trains. Please send me that link again. I have been very busy with my new job, but hope to get to some updates soon. Anyone that has 'S' related links please send them to me. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6248	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 464

Marty, I found O'Brien's "Collecting Toy Trains-Identification and Value Guide" edition #5 at Border's Book Store. $24.95 It is a good book with more realistic prices than Greenberg's. It covers AF, Lionel,Ives, Marx, etc. Well worth the money. Scott Brown sbrown56@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6249	From: Yost, Roy	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: No cow catcher

I found one like that several years ago. Mounting a link coupler from a cut-down freight car truck on the pilot wheels allowed me to double-head AF steamers. You can also do it with an 1 piece Atlantic, or a four-piece Atlantic if you replace the pilot casting with a broken one. The double header looks great, and the Choo-Choo mechanisms going in and out of synchronization sound great. "radio" Roy Yost <snip> > Just bought an AF 290 Steamer at a meet here in Denver. The cow catcher > has > been cleanly snapped off. I don't think I could have sawed it off any > better. The thing's in nice shape otherwise. Any practical, good > looking, > or creative ideas as to how to replace it? > > Andy Betts, Wheat Ridge, CO <snip>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6250	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Gargraves

I am in the process of changing over to Gargraves track and would like to know if any of you have any tips on how to curve the track. I'm really good at "bending" it. Now I'd like to try curving it so trains will run on it. :-) Scott Brown sbrown56@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6251	From: The Reis's	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Re: Gargraves

Scott: Cut a piece of plywood to the inside or outside radius you want. Calculate the curve to match the inside or outside of the ties not the center of the track. Use this as a master by tacking it to layout and "curving" the track inside or outside of it to match and tacking down the track as you go. Work a section and move it ahead and so on. eric reis kenmore, wa. ----- Original Message ----- From: Scott Brown <sbrown56@...> To: <S-Trains@onelist.com> Sent: Monday, December 13, 1999 5:05 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Gargraves > From: Scott Brown <sbrown56@...> > > I am in the process of changing over to Gargraves track and > would like to know if any of you have any tips on how to > curve the track. I'm really good at "bending" it. Now I'd > like to try curving it so trains will run on it. :-) > > Scott Brown > sbrown56@... > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6252	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: O'Brien's Toy Trains

The O'Brien's Collecting Toy Trains : Identification and Value Guide is also available at my Flyer Bookstore for $19.96. http://www.gate.net/~yorke/booklist2.htm -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6253	From: Robert E. Yablonski	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Researching for a friend

I recently received the following e-mail from a friend. He is trying to identify the AF set, and determine it's value. A local hobby shop offered him $200.00. I think maybe $10,000 or so. Any thoughts? Got up in the loft and pulled down that train. Pulled some info off hoping maybe you could help me resource it. Wonder how rare and maybe an estimate. Also, would it be highly collectable. In general, the set consists of two boxes and a tunnel. One has an American Flyer Trains label on the side and contains the trains, remote uncoupler, track and instructions. It appears to be the original box. The second box has a transformer label and contains the transformer. The tunnel is multicolored and in mint condition. The BOX The main box has American Flyer Trains. The A.C. Gilbert Co. New Haven, Conn, USA Made in USA. W.O. 5016 Also has a black stamped 4101 on it. The INSTRUCTIONS The instructions have "Railroading- with the American Flyer" Copyright 1940 by The A.C. Gilbert Co. The Remote and Manual Control Automatic Uncoupler instructions are also enclosed. The Worm Drive Locomotive instructions are also included. Lastly, Has a packing slip "Unit packed by" and the guarantee. The TRANSFORMER BOX and TRANSFORMER The label is torn a little at the top. You can read "No 7B-75 Watt with automatic circuit breaker and "Jewel" light" Also has "M1984A" printed on label. The LOCOMOTIVE The cardboard box is plain with a black "B876" stamped on it. The train inside I would call Mint. The train is blue. Has "556" as its number. Train has a light. Train has a switch on top, mid engine. The TRAINS All trains are in an individual box. Box is blue with yellow writing. Boxes are printed with "Gilbert American Flyer Train" "Developed at the Gilbert Hall of Science" "Tru-Model" TENDER Tender is blue like the engine. Has "555" printed on it. Mint condition. GONDOLA Gondola is green. Has "476" printed on it. Mint condition. BOX CAR Box Car is white with red roof and red sliding doors. Has "478" printed on side. Mint condition. CABOOSE Caboose is red. Has "484" printed on it. Good condition. Small scratch on side roof. The TRACK The set contains 7 straight and 11 curved pieces. I'm keeping it in a good spot where it's not touched much. Story of it is that I told my mother in law one day that I would love to have a train around the Christmas tree. She said she had one that her dad gave her when she was a kid. She said she didn't play with it much. Brought it over. I saw it and knew right away it wasn't going under a tree. Tried to see if it would run. Made a hum but didn't move. Took just he engine to local shop. They said the old grease was real waxy and cleaned it up. Runs fine now that the cleaned it up. I haven't run or set it up since. Thank you, Robert E. Yablonski

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6254	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: speaker for 325

Thanks for all the replies to the speaker question. WOW! I learned something again. The easiest fix looks to be the replacement speaker from Doug at port lines. I am currently trying to hook up with him on this purchase. Thanks again! chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6255	From: Alice S. Beachy	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Bachmann On30 passenger car

Hi everyone, Help. I bought a Bachmann passenger car with the intent of converting it. However, I can't figure out how to get the trucks off. Anyone done this yet? Do you have to cut the wire to the light? Wayne Beachy Atlantic Coast S Gaugers

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6256	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] SHS SW-1

Dear Kelvin, I guess the downside of living across the big pond is the delay in snail mail. Your 2000 catalog was mailed last week and you should get it sometime before 2001. In it we list the roadnames except one, the SP black & (daylight?) orange tiger striped SW-1. The others are: B&M (black w/ red & white stripes and minute man on the cab), C&NW (as delivered), Chessie, Milwaukee Rd (as delivered), PRR (as delivered), Seaboard (yes, same scheme as AF & AM Baldwins, but it is such a nice scheme I could not resist) and WP (aluminum & orange). Several of our close advisors had asked, "Why a SW-1 now?" and if the same question is running through your mind, let me explain......... .......Originally we had wanted to so a SW-1 instead of the SW-9, but we were not sure if we could squeeze the AC board into that little body. We knew if we did not have enough room after we had tooled the engine, the demand for a DC only motive power project would never get us even close to the 3,000 MOQ (minimum order quantity) need for the SW-1s. We felt the SW-9 was the next best thing. Not as cute or popular as the SW-1, but did run with steam engines and was still on some class one railroads (again, this was 1996). Once the SW-9 was completed and with the aid of electrical wizard Don Richards (with the help of others), we realized that the AC board could fit into a SW-1 body. During the summer of 98', the SW-9 were selling good and we asked the design team to prepare drawings for the SW-1 planning to offer this after the F-3's which we expected in the summer of 99 (oops!). As the delays started in the F-3 with the patterns being delayed and then the cascading effect of loosing our slot with the design team for the F-3s drawings, we noticed that we were running out of SW-9s and would only have a few roadnames left for the 99' Christmas season. So, we started tooling the SW-1. We would split the run with 6 roadnames of SW-9s that we would receive before Christmas and the SW-1s after the first of the year. The F-3s are now being tooled and we expect test shots in April. If we have minimum number of corrections, production can begin late spring or early summer. Don Thompson Kelvin White wrote: > In message <8E719288A642D211930600A0C9E1D3E2BADF0B@SERVER_INTERNET>, > Bill Lane <BLane@...> writes > >From: Bill Lane <BLane@...> > > > >Hi list, > > > >I saw production samples of the S Helper Service's new SW-1 on Saturday. > >They were fabulous !! Would you expect anything less ? Call Robin and get > >your orders in. They will be here before you know it. > > > >Bill > > Hi Bill you may have inside knowledge, but to date, Don hasn't released > the Road names / liveries, plus cost for the SW1. When I asked him last > he said they would come out with the 2000 catalogue? > -- > Kelvin White > WHITEOAK MODELS > Specialist in S Scale > 16 Brogden Close > North Hinksey > Oxford, England > OX2 9DS > > Tel 001 44 1865 249897 > Email kelvin@... -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 2nd batch of SW-9s, Starter Sets and 2000 catalogs are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6257	From: Michael Westphal	Date: 12/13/1999
Subject: American Flyer & Dept 56 Christmas layout

As promised, I finally put up photos of our Christmas Town. This year we added an AF 21088 Franklin running around the town. http://www.killerrobots.com/maw/xmastown/ A special thanks to all who have helped me this year! Merry Christma'S' and Happy Holidays to all! Michael

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6258	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: GARGRAVES

I run all my mainline trains on Gargraves. I used an automobile tire and it worked very well. Once the track is curved to the tire it can be adjusted to the exact curve you need. Some people have cut plywood for a guide but that is more time and materials. I would recommend soldering sections together to get a smooth curve at joints. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6259	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: coincidence

This may have been covered by earlier echanges when I wasn't looking. In any event I must be the last person in North America to notice that the road number on American Models' Chicago & North Western flat -- 42597 -- is the one used on the American Flyer flat #627 of 1946. Ron Bashista says this is a coincidence, but I wonder. Do you suppose the explanation could be simply that photos of 42597 were the best available to both AF and AM? Anyway, the best of the holiday seson to all S Trains subscribers, and may each of you receive at least one item on his wish list. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6260	From: Nerker, Robert	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: help on Alco engine

I have a single alco chasis apart on my bench and need a pointer to a problem. The "field" gets real hot to the point it smokes a little! I checked the commutator for breaks and resistance and it checks out ok. The brushes look good. There doesnt seem to be any binding at the bearings or gears, but it looks like it's only spinning at half speed? Any hints where to look would be appreciated... Bob

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6261	From: bgaylord@xxxx.xxx	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Talking Station

I need help on my "Mystic" talking station. The problem is I cant get it to send the power to the fiber pinned side of the track. I have it wired as follows Green goes to button then to Base post. Yellow to hot post. Black and Red too base post. White to track. I have cleaned and inspected and seems fine. It is more then likely something simple that I'm over looking. But I cant get it to put power out to the track. It plays good and functions well. Hope you can Help. Thanks. Bob Wight.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6262	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Yablonski's friend

Bob Yablonski wrote: <A friend is trying to identify this AF set, and determine it's value. A local hobby shop offered him <$200.00. I think maybe $10,000 or so. Any thoughts? Bob: I won't pretend to know more about this subject than I do, but I think that your estimate of $10,000 might be a tad optimistic. Your friend has a Gilbert 3/16" O-Gauge Royal Blue freight set. That it is in pristine condition, that it has all it's boxes and paper, and that it has a known history of one-owner and gentle use, adds to it's value. Here is where my ignorance defeats me. I don't know the expected contents of this set so I don't know if these cars belong in this box, but none of the individual units sounds unique to me. I repeat, I may be missing something, but I don't see why this set would be worth more than $500. Even the tender is not the scarcer 555-C version. That the hobby shop offered $200 is suspicious. They usually offer $50 or so, regardless of rarity. Do you have a rationale for your estimate? Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6263	From: Alex Mendelsohn	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Whistle speakers

I found that replacing the whistle speaker in my 336 with a small Japanese radio replacement was a waste of time. After replacing it twice (and the coupling capacitor once), the voice coil in both replacement speakers burned out after a short time of operation. Apparently these small speakers cannot dissipate the power that the Gilbert-designed transducer could dissipate. I wound up carefully digging away at the old speaker with an Exacto knife until I exposed enough of the original terminating wire to make a solder connection to. Once I did that, and staked the fragile wires down with glue, the old speaker sounds just like it did years ago--LOUD and clear! Good luck. Happy Holidaze! -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6264	From: Neil Becker	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Electromagnetic Crane/Coal Loader Questions

Happy Holidays! Anyone have a wiring diagram to rewire a 583 crane? How about a diagram to restring a 752 coal loader? TIA Neil

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6265	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Re: Whistle speakers

Ott(among others), at http://www.trainexchange.com/ottother.htm sells 1 1/2" and 2" speakers. Alex Mendelsohn wrote: > > From: "Alex Mendelsohn" <alexm@...> > > I found that replacing the whistle speaker in my 336 with a small Japanese > radio replacement was a waste of time. After replacing it twice (and the > coupling capacitor once), the voice coil in both replacement speakers burned > out after a short time of operation. Apparently these small speakers cannot > dissipate the power that the Gilbert-designed transducer could dissipate. > > I wound up carefully digging away at the old speaker with an Exacto knife > until I exposed enough of the original terminating wire to make a solder > connection to. Once I did that, and staked the fragile wires down with glue, > the old speaker sounds just like it did years ago--LOUD and clear! > > Good luck. Happy Holidaze! -- Alex in Kennebunk, Maine > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6266	From: Kelvin White	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Re: [S-Scale] SHS SW-1

In message <3855BE36.21F3BF8@...>, Don Thompson <robin@...> writes >Dear Kelvin, > I guess the downside of living across the big pond is the delay in snail >mail. Your 2000 catalog was mailed last week and you should get it sometime >before 2001. Hi Don, It arrived in the post today, a renewed faith in the USPS and GPO. You'll be getting an order for a couple of SW1s in the new year. Many thanks -- Kelvin White Oxford England Email kelvin@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6267	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Re: Speakers

We have experimented with various speakers and capacitors for replacement use with poor success until recently. We now carry a speaker and capacitor combination that DOES seem to work fine, and so far it does not seem to experience burn-out in a short time. We have them in stock. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6268	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Holiday Brain Teasers - X-posted 2 lists

This puzzler will especially appeal to all those Pennsylvania Railroad fans. What railroad was the first to connect the Atlantic and Pacific oceans with rails across America? The answer is the good old PRR. All you have to do is explain why this is actually true! The second puzzler is reminiscent of those hateful math problems that were always on the final exam. Two trains, 150 miles apart, but on the same track, are speeding toward a head-on prairie meet. Each train is travelling at a rate of 75 mph. At the exact moment when all these conditions commence to exist, a very fast bee leaves the pilot of the first loco and flys toward the second engine. The instant it reaches the pilot of loco number two, the bee reverses direction and returns to the first engine. Again, on arrival, he reverses direction and returns to the second train. The bee keeps this up, flying over the ever decreasing distance between the two locomotives until the trains collide, squashing him like a bug! Don't try to figure any lost time for the bee's turnarounds. For the purpose of calculating the puzzle answer, assume that the bee averaged 187.5 mph (I said he was fast!) which will account for acceleration and deceleration near the respective trains. There is no reason to calculate any other bee stops. Assume the tracks are straight and he flew constantly and directly. Please calculate the exact mileage which the bee traveled in flight. Two (puzzles) to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6269	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Re: Holiday Brain Teasers --YAK

AAAAUGH!!!!! I thought I saw the last of these when I got out of High School!!!! AAAAAAAAAUGH!!!!! BAH!! Humbug!!! S' David Dewey Who is really blue over the end of Peanuts

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6270	From: Alan Bataille	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: Vermont Trip

Hi, Are there any s-scalers in the Waterbury, Vt. area? I'm going up there this weekend to visit my brother and will be doing some Christmas shopping. Are there any nice train shops up that way? Thanks for any info. Alan Bataille

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6271	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 12/14/1999
Subject: display/storage unit

Can anyoone recommend a wall-mounted unit for storing and displaying S-gauge rolling stock? Paul Schneider Woodacre, CA __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6272	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/15/1999
Subject: coincidence

Isn't that number, 42597, the number of the car in the photo in the Builder's Cyclopedia? m Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6273	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/15/1999
Subject: Talking Station / PA

The problem with the talking station is probably in the drum and contact. The brass drum probably has some old lubricant on it that is interfering with electrical contact. You can clean the drum with mineral spirits and a q-tip or two; if corrosion is present on the drum, use #400 sandpaper if necessary.. You have to be very careful not to damage the contact fingers, which are fragile. As to the PA with the hot field, I suspedct that the armature is partially burned out. too much current passing thru the armature will cause the field to overheat. This is just a guess. I would suggest that you replace the armature and field. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6274	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/15/1999
Subject: Re: Talking Station

The red wire needs to be connected to the variable post of the transformer that is controlling the track power, instead of the base post. This wire goes to the cam which is then run through the finger connected to the white wire. This allows the variable setting of the transformer to be conveyed to the fiber-pinned track when the station is not playing. When it is playing the cam disconnects from the finger and now the red wire is only connected to the fiber pinned track through the 10 OHM resistor which acts as a reverse unit lockout to stop the train. bgaylord@... wrote: > I need help on my "Mystic" talking station. > The problem is I cant get it to send the power to the > fiber pinned side of the track. I have it wired as follows > Green goes to button then to Base post. Yellow to > hot post. Black and Red too base post. White to track. > I have cleaned and inspected and seems fine. It is > more then likely something simple that I'm over looking. > But I cant get it to put power out to the track. > It plays good and functions well. Hope you can Help. > Thanks. > Bob Wight. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > <HR> <html> > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6275	From: John Simkovich	Date: 12/15/1999
Subject: Fw: (no subject)

----- Original Message ----- From: <Fainov1013@...> To: <sarablacke@...>; <stephblacke@...>; <Shish41@...>; <JKC3556@...>; <fairhill@...>; <landmjones@...>; <GLongJones@...>; <msbulls@...>; <jfnovotny@...>; <JNNUSMC@...>; <jnovotny@...>; <Fancyncw@...>; <torton@...>; <jensc@...> Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 6:29 PM Subject: (no subject) > > Subject: Warning!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Warning!! > > On December 25, 1999 you may receive an email called, Lump of Coal... do > not > > open it, it contains a deadly virus... it will erase your Windows along > with > > many other program files. Pass this on as soon as you can to get the WORD > > out. This is not a hoax! This was first reported on the CBS morning news > > August 20, 1999. Watch out for this one. > > > > > > > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6276	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/15/1999
Subject: PA diesels

Chuck Smith makes an excellent point. Worn out axle holes in the chassis can cause overheating of the PA motor. This may have caused the toasted condition of the motor coils. In general, when replacing a burnt out armature or field, it is a good idea to determine what condition caused the burnout and correct that, before installing the new parts. Otherwise, the new part may well burn out too. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6277	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/16/1999
Subject: AF diesels

If you detect heavy wear in the axle holes of the chassis, I'd recommend replacing each power chassis with a later model LTI chassis. You'll have to tap the yoke holes (either 4X40 or 6x32 can't remember exactly), and the little holes for top-side attachments (use a good straight example of the tiny screws and little cutting oil or WD-40, gently work it in and out of each top side hole). These chassis come with wheels, axles, and axle gears installed, but best of all real bushings in the axles holes. Have fun. My 470 and 371 used to be cranky, but they run like lightning with these replacement chassis. PS You'll also need to buy pulmor bands to put on the one set of wheels - - two bands per chassis. LTI chassis wheels are a grey, not the brassy color of the originals, but they work fine. If that detraction from "stock" upsets you, then there's always the "rebushing" route. One source for the LTI chassis is Fred Jester, $22 each. I've used five so far (got a 360 coversion in process) and keep one or two spares around.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6278	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/16/1999
Subject: Brainless Teaser Answers

PENCILS DOWN! Well, let's just look at what you've done here . . . hmmmm, not everybody is going to wear a cap and gown THIS year! Most of you skipped puzzle #1. >What railroad was the first to connect the Atlantic and Pacific oceans with >rails across America? >The answer is the good old PRR. All you have to do is explain why this is >actually true! This was a trick question. The PRR actually drove the final spike to start transcontinental service on January 27, 1855, 14 years before the golden spike ceremony at Promontory, Utah. Two railroads shared the PRR reporting marks. You know the first. The other was the Panama Rail Road. Because it is narrow gauge, there was no chance of interchange, thus the shared marks. The line is 47 miles long from sea to shining sea. My red herring was the prologue statement, "This puzzler will especially appeal to all those Pennsylvania Railroad fans." But It has special appeal because, in 1955, four executives of the Pennsy went down to Panama to streamline the operations of the struggling shortline. George M. Smith, Richard E. Pinkham, John H. Burdakin and R.C. Ambelang successfully prevented the abandonment of the line. It still operates container service to this day. I just received this months National Railway Bulletin, Vol.64, #5 1999, the publication of the NRHS, which details the history of this line. I figured I'd jump on it before other folks got their copies and got wise. Puzzler #2, The Bee. No, no, put down that slide rule. You in the back, A Hewlett Packard scientific isn't going to help you now. I know it was tough. First you had to create a model of the two trains at 150 miles distance, then calculate the differential closing speed of the bee relative to the closing speed of the locomotives, and no, when the bee reverses direction, it does not become a negative number . . . Or, of course, you could just have taken the position that since each train will cover 75 miles in an hour, and since they both started out 150 miles apart, they'll meet in the middle in exactly one hour. Now what was the speed of that bee? 187.5 miles per HOUR? Regardless of direction, Buzz travels 187.5 miles and then, it's the big hive in the sky. Or, he could escape. Yeah, let's have him escape. The engines were both honeys. Did I mention they were PRR locomotives; one a K-4 Eastbound, the other a 4-4-2 Westbound. When they crash, the Pennsylvania will once again have joined the Atlantic and the Pacific. I can't bear to watch. Two to go, Boop, boop, I'm gone, Chris Zizzo P.S.~ Thanks to Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers for the Bee Puzzler, taken from Public Radios "Car Talk".

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6279	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/16/1999
Subject: OTT sound system

Have any of you ever added OTT's electronic whistle with steam sounds board to an AF engine? The unit sounds intriguing at $38 and 4"x15/8"x5/8" and a 1.5" diameter speaker. More specifically, I'm thinking buying a spare tender for my 350 Royal Blue and adding it to that. Thanks. http://www.trainexchange.com/ottother.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6280	From: AFSTrains@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/16/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 466

In a message dated 12/15/1999 6:16:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: << Please calculate the exact mileage which the bee traveled in flight. Two (puzzles) to go, Chris Zizzo >> 375 miles.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6281	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/16/1999
Subject: Re: OTT sound system

I installed that unit in a tender for a 310. I later re-installed it into a box car for greater versatility in what I can do with it. The unit has a plug you can remove so the chuffing is turned off but the whistle still works, ideal for engines with smoke and choo choo. The whistle you can tune to a tone you like. Not as good as analog sound but not bad for the price, better than most Lionels, and loud. I have had more than 30 some dollars worth of fun with the thing. You need a Railsounds button or find an old Lionel transformer with a whistle controller. You can also buy one from Ott or make one with a little effort and some radio shack parts. David_Horn@... wrote: > > Have any of you ever added OTT's electronic whistle with steam sounds board > to an AF engine? The unit sounds intriguing at $38 and 4"x15/8"x5/8" and a > 1.5" diameter speaker. More specifically, I'm thinking buying a spare > tender for my 350 Royal Blue and adding it to that. Thanks. > > http://www.trainexchange.com/ottother.htm > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6282	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/16/1999
Subject: Virus Hoax

Please don't use the S-Trains list to spread 'Hoax' Virus information. If you hear about a virus please visit http://mcafee.com or one of the other sites to verify it. This Hoax is documented at http://vil.mcafee.com/vil/vh10342.asp If you still have a question feel free to ask me 'off list'. I am sure your intentions were good. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6283	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Your Choice

Serious Question for S-Gaugers: If you had your druthers (what the hell ARE druthers?) regarding a convention car, would you prefer 1.) a Lionel Flyer car 2.) a car manufactured by one of the new s-gauge companies (AM, SHS, SSA, DMR) Your answer here will be used in a letter to, hopefully, influence a decision. More than that I cannot say at this time. Pick 1 or 2. Include a short reason. Send to me off list. If I write my address here, this list will turn it into x's. But, I'll try, busy-boy@... . If there are only x's after the @ sign, they stand for msn.com . Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6284	From: sigma@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: C&NW flat

If anyone has a Builder's Cyclopedia which includes a C&NW flat, what is its road number, please. Joe Pereira email: sigma@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6285	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Fred's Train Parts

I have received several requests for information on how to contact Fred Jester. work (610) 494-4578 home (610) 497-2670 fax (610) 494-7769 address: 2102 Concord Rd. Chester, PA 19013 TCA #76-9273 See S-Gaugian and CTT for his advertisements. Hope you have 'em rolling in time for Santa to see.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6286	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Re: Your Choice

Definitely AM or SHS or equiv. busy-boy wrote: > > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > > Serious Question for S-Gaugers: > > If you had your druthers (what the hell ARE druthers?) regarding a > convention car, would you prefer > > 1.) a Lionel Flyer car > 2.) a car manufactured by one of the new s-gauge companies (AM, SHS, SSA, > DMR) > > Your answer here will be used in a letter to, hopefully, influence a > decision. More than that I cannot say at this time. > > Pick 1 or 2. Include a short reason. Send to me off list. If I write my > address here, this list will turn it into x's. But, I'll try, > busy-boy@... . If there are only x's after the @ sign, they stand for > msn.com . > > Two to go, > Chris Zizzo > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6287	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Re: C&NW flat

Check out page 118 of the fifth edition, circa 1947. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/cyc/cyc118.gif Enjoy. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6288	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, December 19, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6289	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Re: amer flyer

Sorry, don't know where these specific things might be found, Maybe someone on the s-trains list can help? J24jac@... wrote: > > I saw copies/reproductions of amer flyer catalogs at a train show and would > like to get copies of the '52 & '53 catalogs, do you know where they can be > obtained? > I am also looking to purchase sets 5555W & 5556W in running condition. > Thanks. Jack -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6290	From: Roger Delthony	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: Re: amer flyer

Catalogs are commonly offered for sale on eBay, as well as by dealers in used Flyer stuff. Nationally I think Ron Leventon may sell old catalogs, and possibly Doug Peck. Roger Chuck Smith wrote: > From: Chuck Smith <cesmith@...> > > Sorry, don't know where these specific things might be found, Maybe > someone on the s-trains list can help? > > J24jac@... wrote: > > > > I saw copies/reproductions of amer flyer catalogs at a train show and would > > like to get copies of the '52 & '53 catalogs, do you know where they can be > > obtained? > > I am also looking to purchase sets 5555W & 5556W in running condition. > > Thanks. Jack > > -- > Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) > and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith > > "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool > than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6291	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/17/1999
Subject: catalogs

A good source for Flyer catalogs is Dan Olson in the state of Washington. Sorry I don't have his address. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6292	From: Nick and Becky Colleran	Date: 12/18/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 469

In my (not so humble) opinion, the best current option for a current "American Flyer" car is Doug Peck's Borden's flat. If Lionel were making cars like that I would still be buying them. I stopped buying Lionel after they changed truck design and sold the few I had since they are the only items that derail on my layout. As much as I love American Flyer, the Lionel boys have let the name atrophy to the point that it cannot support sales against the quality and variety of the other manufacturers. Having been in S gauge since 1948, I believe we now have the best quality and variety ever available. It just won't come from Lionel and be in the store windows of the department stores of our childhood. If for no other reason, the stores are gone. On the other hand, I have seen a real re-awakening of interest in S gauge where there is an operating layout at a public train show. It is especially good when the trains are low enough for the children to see and there is a whistle button to press. More than enough of my opinions for now. --- Nick Colleran BTW --- If it is a serious question, I believe "druthers" is short form of "what you would rather" have. >Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 09:38:50 -0500 > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> >Subject: Your Choice > >Serious Question for S-Gaugers: > >If you had your druthers (what the hell ARE druthers?) regarding a >convention car, would you prefer > >1.) a Lionel Flyer car >2.) a car manufactured by one of the new s-gauge companies (AM, SHS, SSA, >DMR) >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6293	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/18/1999
Subject: Re: diesel chassis

For those seeking the Lnl AF diesel chassis replacements, we stock them as well, and currently have several on hand. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6294	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/18/1999
Subject: A Hallmark Moment

'Twas the night before Christmas, and all through my pike, Not a steamer was stirring, not even a Mike. My yard tracks, inviting, stood empty and bare, In hopes that St. Nicholas soon would be there. The diesels were nestled all snug in their sheds, While visions of DCC danced in their heads. While I, in my blue-and-white engineer's cap, Had just settled down for a long winter's nap, When down in the train room, there arose such a clatter, I sprang from my bed to see what was the matter. Away to the basement I flew like an ace, Tripped over the cat and fell flat on my face. I stifled a curse meant for Chessie (the cat), And I muttered to no one, "I meant to do that," When what to my wondering eyes should appear, But a tiny S-scale sleigh with eight Artista reindeer, With an engineer driving, so lively and quick, I knew in a moment it must be St. Nick. More rapid than GG-1's, onward they came, And he blew a steam whistle and called them by name: On Flyer! On Rusti! On Crown and Pacific! On Donnie and Ronnie and others terrific! To the top of the mountains of Hydrocal plaster, Now dash away, dash away, dash away faster!" As dry leaves that behind a new Genesis fly, When they meet with an obstacle, mount to the sky, So in through the window the coursers they flew With the sleigh full of trains, and St. Nicholas too. And then, on my roundhouse, I saw on the roof The prints in the dust of each perfect scale hoof. As I drew a deep breath, and was turning around, From beneath the benchwork, St. Nick came with a bound. He was dressed like an engineer from head to foot, And his clothes had that fine smell of ashes and soot; A bundle of trains he had flung on his back, And he looked like a peddler just opening his pack. His eyes - just like marker lights! Dimples, how merry! His cheeks like a Warbonnet, nose like a cherry! His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow, And his beard was so white, it would please Phoebe Snow. He puffed on a pipe as he refilled its bowl, And the smoke, it smelled just like bituminous coal. He had a broad face and a belly (I found) That shook like a tank car with wheels out-of-round. He was chubby and plump, and I wanted to shout, "Yes! The man's got a route the UP can't buy out!" A wink of his eye as he passed near the door Soon gave me to know I'd have freight cars galore. He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work. He filled all my yard tracks; then turned with a jerk, And leaving an airbrush he'd found on eBay, He gave me a nod and returned to his sleigh. He pumped up the brakes, blew two blasts on his whistle, And away they all flew like the down of a thistle. But I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight, "HAPPY CHRISTMAS TO ALL! KEEP 'EM ROLLING! GOOD-NIGHT!" Merry Christmas Everyone! Toot, Toot, Chris and Denise Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6295	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/18/1999
Subject: Thanks

Thanks to all who responded to my informal poll. I tabulated the results. Of 24 respondents, 23 preferred convention cars to be made by manufacturers other than Lionel. One respondent preferred Lionel cars because they are Flyers, after all. The lynching will be at dawn on Christmas morning. Just kidding, you were all terrific, and real fast! The letter is written and has been submitted for approval. I'm sorry, but at this time I can't tell you more about it. I will as soon as I am able. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6296	From: The Reis's	Date: 12/18/1999
Subject: Re: catalogs

Dan Olson can be reached at olsonhobbies@... or 206-365-1240 in Seattle. eric reis kenmore, wa. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jarcho <jarcho@...> To: <S-trains@onelist.com> Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 9:53 PM Subject: [S-Trains] catalogs > From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > > A good source for Flyer catalogs is Dan Olson in the state of Washington. > Sorry I don't have his address. Tom Jarcho > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6297	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/19/1999
Subject: Season Greetings

Here is a little gift for you. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/catalog/sets.html Enjoy. Thanks for all the help, kind words and support. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6298	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/19/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 470

In a message dated 12/19/99 3:37:11 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: If Chris's 23 to one in favor of "other than American Flyer" for convention cars holds true then I am the lone dissenter. It sure puts me in the minority, but then I always have been haven't I? I am not afraid.......Steve Blackburn RMHR...Boise, Idaho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6299	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/19/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, December 19, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6300	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/19/1999
Subject: GM GP-7 diesel

I have not been getting all my e-mail, so someone may have mentioned this already on list. On the upper right corner of page 48 of the January 2000 Trains magazine there is a color photo of the first GM GP-7 demonstrator, #100. This seems to be the loco and paint scheme that Gilbert copied for the 370, 371, & 375. The footboards, if that is the term, certainly look like those on the Flyer pilots. Of interest: the end platforms, rails, and pilots are painted the same blue as the stripe. Can't tell for sure if the trucks are blue or black -- probably black. I never before saw a color photo of one of these. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6301	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: catalogs

I think Train City in Erie has some. I bought a mint '56 on eBay for about $15 then found he had a whole box LN for $12 a piece.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6302	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: Geep Demonstrator

Tom Jarcho wrote: >(In) Trains magazine there is a color photo of the first GM GP-7 demonstrator, >#100. This seems to be the loco and paint scheme that Gilbert copied for >the 370, 371, & 375. The footboards, if that is the term, certainly look >like those on the Flyer pilots. Of interest: the end platforms, rails, >and pilots are painted the same blue as the stripe. Can't tell for sure if >the trucks are blue or black -- probably black. I never before saw a color >photo of one of these. Tom, Could you tell . . . was the photo clear enough to see if it had couplers, or just a heavy steel bar across the front of the pilot? Toot to go, CZ :-)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6303	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: links

Paul, thanks for the "sets" for Christmas!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6304	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 470

In a message dated 12/19/99 3:33:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, Boss31@... writes: << If Chris's 23 to one in favor of "other than American Flyer" for convention cars holds true then I am the lone dissenter. >> Steve, Well, then there were two of us. Should we demand a recount? :-)) RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6305	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Cattle car conductivity

My 736 has a tweaky front truck (the one with the hot rail pick-up tab protruding from it). Once in a while, if it's in just the wrong position, the vibrator will not operate. If I ever so slightly coax the coupler to one side or the other -- buzzzzz. I've cleaned and inspected about everything I can think of, but what I suspect is the lack of contact between the rivet (where it mushrooms over) and the truck. Given that there's a fiber insulating spacer between the truck and the frame, I'm assuming where the rivet meets the truck is all the connection there is. I'm contemplating soldering a pig-tail from the base of the rivet to the main body of the action pick-up tab to ensure continuity. Do you have any other ideas? Thanks. PS Two other questions - - does the fiber insulating spacer have a collar to prevent the rivet from contacting the frame (i.e. not just a flat spacer, but more like a top hat some one stepped on)? And should the rivet rotate independent of the truck or not?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6306	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Got the cattle working

Well after too many late nights/early mornings, I believe I have the 771 and 736 working. Here's a brief summary of what I found works. And yes, with the right material and angle of "grain" those little heifers really do like to climb the ramp! Cow's feet - - just like Barker says, ShureLine paint pad material with plastic backing cut to size. The mohair from the upholstery company might have also worked but their sampler provided too little material for me to iterate often enough to find out. Besides, they are mostly wool so why invite the moth problem all over again. The paint pad material (I can get the product # off the package if you wish) works well and I believe is synthetic. They come packaged with two pads (each about 3"x4") for about $2.99. That gave me plenty of material to experiment with. The most important thing to get right is the off-center grain angle. Barker recommends 15-30 degrees off-center to the grain. I tried 18.75 degrees, 22.5, and others, and ended up with 24 degrees providing the correct amount of lateral and forward thrust. With too low an angle the cows go too straight, with too high an angle they side-shuffle too much and fail to climb the ramp with much vigor. Be certain the base of each cow is clean and flat (not arched). Once attached to the base of a cow (I used ZapAGap which you can undo with a utility knife if you have to), train the fibers by gently pressing the cow down on your palm and moving it in the desired off-center direction. That helps the fibers to lie properly. If accidentally brushed backward, the fibers stand straight up, and the cow "bounces" more than it should. In that state it may not climb the ramp very well. The only draw back to ShureLine is that it's white, not brown or black. However, it doesn't actually look bad, and if you wanted to dye it that might work. The net-net is to use a material that is dense with little fibers which are relatively short and soft. Remember to flip your template over to produce black-cow feet if you first make it for cutting out brown-cow feet. Ramp material - - 400 grit sand paper works great, but doesn't always lie flat enough after lifting and lowering the ramp, so I ended up using Fine grit emery cloth. It's a little heavier, lies flat, and the cows climb it fine. Pen material - - I didn't have to replace any, but thought I'd comment that its important to have it centered and flat. You can center it by loosening and adjusting the solenoid's mounting screws. I "tuned" mine in terms of laying flat by gently bending the solenoid's mount so as to press down at the point it attaches to the mat, and to ensure the mat was level across the pen. Ramp guides - - I added a 1/2"x3/6" piece of Popsicle stick to both outside edges of my ramp. Each piece projects out the end of the ramp by about 3/16". These work great and are very helpful in preventing either door from closing while loading or unloading the cows, plus they help align the matting in the car with the mat on the ramp for smooth entry and exiting. They do not hit passing cars when the ramp is up, and protrude just far enough into the cattle car to block the doors and tap down the car's interior flooring material.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6307	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: Cattle car conductivity

In a message dated 12/20/99 9:36:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, David_Horn@... writes: << I'm contemplating soldering a pigtail from the base of the rivet to the main body of the action pickup tab to ensure continuity. Do you have any other ideas? >> Dave, Another possibility is that the axle holes in the truck stamping (a 700 series car, correct?) are too large or have worn to a bigger size. I have a 719 that once had this problem. Hope this helps. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6308	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: Cattle car conductivity

David, The truck rivet is shouldered, and if you take the body off your car, you can tighten it up, and yes, the fiber washer (actually there are two washers) on the top is shouldered. The one between the truck and the floor is a flat washer. The fiber washers do fail, and do swell, causing other problems (trucks falling off or failing to swivel). The other detail to look at is: are your axles parallel? if they are out of alignment, you can have problems with the pick-up too. (see my last Dispatch article--free plug here!) S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6309	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: pulmor in a non-pulmor?

I just ran my 312 SIT for about an hour at full speed on a large holiday display at the local USGS building. Near the end I thought I noticed it slowing, but wasn't sure. It turns out it threw a brush (the right side brush popped part way out so it was at an angle between the comm and the housing). It ground down the armature pretty good. I'll take a closer look tonight. Hopefully with some thrust washers on the far end and new brushes I can run what's left of the armature, but I was wondering, would it be OK for me to replace the non-pulmor armature with a spare pulmor that I have around? Any physical dimensional differences? Any resistance, or electrical issues? Thanks. PS It was fun to represent ACG AF-S while loads of modern 0 and G trains were running around. The 312 got lots of looks and comments from young and old. However, the G diesel did have one heck of a sound system in it.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6310	From: Wayne Broadhead	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: TCA car, SHS vs. Lionel

Chris, I would prefer that NASG and TCA and TTOS cars which want to REPRESENT AMERICAN FLYER, should be made by Lionel. They are the only manufacturer who is making American Flyer, and their product comes closest to the real look of the American Flyer cars. I have products from SHS, and yes they are wonderful, and better quality, but they are scale, and the intent is to be scale and not "toy train like" like Gilbert was. I have some of the Lionel Flyer products, and for a "reproduction" i think they are fine. Yes the cars are lighter, but i think the plastic is just as good, and the paint jobs are superior to the original Gilbert. My only gripe with them is the weight of them, i am guessing that the base of the boxcars is a lighter weight metal than original Gilbert. They should be heavier which would solve the derailing problem that some people are having. I personally have not had derailing problems. I would not argue the point with anyone about SHE and AM products being better made, with greater detail, they are beautiful cars. But for me, i would rather pay for a reproduction of a hightly sought after American Flyer Train. So i guess that makes your survey now, 24 for SHS and AM, and 3 for Lionel. Wayne Broadhead

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6311	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: TCA car, SHS vs. Lionel

Wayne Broadhead wrote: > From: Wayne Broadhead <wayne@...> .....I have products from SHS, and yes they are wonderful, and better quality, but they are scale, and the intent is to be scale and not "toy train like" like Gilbert was. Dear Wayne, I am just not sure how to respond to your survey response....Hey! Wait a minute........I know who can help....... ".......From the famous Gilbert Hall of Science now come a fleet of brilliantly engineered trains and a wide range of equipment that carry SCALE model railroading to new heights of realism.......By making your railroad 100% American Flyer, you have the proud satisfaction of knowing that it is 100% scale model - 100% realistic". Written by A.C. Gilbert in 1946, from page 2 & 3 of the 1946 catalog. I have always felt that A.C. Gilbert introduced "state of the art" S scale Model Railroading to the world in 1946. I also believed he improved on that every year he ran the company. From SIT to smoke in boiler, tin side dump hoppers to the injection molded "western" side dump car, link couplers to knuckle, and many more improvements. I ask myself, " Who is the true keeper of the spirit of A.C. Gilbert.?".....Lionel? -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6312	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: TCA car, SHS vs. Lionel

Don, If I answer the question correctly, do I win a free SW 1? Keep up the good work. Joe Henna had two of your new sets at the Greenberg show in Charlotte this past weekend. And I can only say in the words of my Marine DI, "OUTSTANDING"! Tom Davis, Charlotte, N.C.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6313	From: RBubeck327@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/20/1999
Subject: Re: TCA car, SHS vs. Lionel

In a message dated 12/20/99 4:19:03 PM, robin@... writes: << I ask myself, " Who is the true keeper of the spirit of A.C. Gilbert.?".....Lionel? >> SHS, of course. I own and enjoy SHS equipment. However, my "vote" for Flyonel convention cars was placed, as such, in the belief (possibly mistaken, given the outcome of the survey) that AF collectors probably dominate the convention car market and that something close in feel to the original ACG equipment would be perceived as more desirable for the intended purpose. Quality graphics are very important -- the recent TCA L&N boxcar done by Lionel was a pre-order sellout, suggesting that cars from a number of sources can be successful. RB

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6314	From: Michael A. Scivoletti	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: The True Flyer@ Spirit is alive!!!!!!

Dear Don, I am not voting, but would like to say this. If it was not for start of American Models and now your fine work, I do not think that Lionel@ would even put out what it does in American Flyer@. The current owners have NO idea what model railroading or even just the "fun" of trains is about or about the enjoyment we get as modellers. I do not claim to be a modeller. I just like TRAINS period. Probably like most others on the list, I got an American Flyer@ set as a kid, mind was probably the first year they were out. My first and only set was a 322 Hudson with SIT versus SIB, an MKT yellow boxcar, a side dump red metal hopper, a floodlight car and standard Reading style caboose. When Gilbert changed to SIB, the engine was traded in for the 322 AC Hudson I got now ('49-'50). Links were changed to knuckles. A Gulf three dome tank, and log car were added and that was the extent of my "set". Today, I prefer diesels, oil tanks, covered hoppers (trough type from AM), your bulk head flats, a caboose at the end of the train, and eventually double stack cars when they become ready-to-run. If Lionel@ American Flyer@ sticks around for more than a few years (it changes hands faster than oil slipping through fingers), maybe the owners will get their "act " together. If A. C. Gilbert wanted to keep American Flyer@ a toy like it was when he bought it, then there was no need to change it over from three rail O to 2 two rail S except as a marketing ploy against Lionel@. His "scale" of '46 was the best as possible with the state of the art of manufacturing at the time. I really believe if he had been younger or was able to past his company on to someone with the same "vision", than American Flyer@ could possibly be on the "wish list" of today's generation. Computers and trains go together these days on the real "layouts" of Krebs and Co. (CEO of Burlington Northern & Santa Fe). Maybe the new leader of American Flyer@ would have had the courage to provide two levels of products, one the original way that could be handled by children with the change ability to "upgrade" to scale operation later on as the "dream" grew, and the scale level that you provide . To me that would the best of both "worlds". Like with the death of Walt Disney, American Flyer@ and the Disney company are NOT what their original owners had in mind for the future. I believe Gilbert would have been up to the state of art that you pass along while still remembering the products of the past. Just like all Intel@ chips for the newer computers can and will read most older programs, if any body doubts your respect for the American Flyer@ heritage, I would ask them to explain about you supplying the Flyer@ type wheels as the main set and providing the scale wheels as an option. I truly believe that SHS has done more for the spirit of American Flyer@ then the current owners of the name will ever do. End of Soap Box!! A Merry and joyous Holiday and a Happy New Year to all. May the "Chief Superintendent" bring you all the trains on your "wish list"!!!!!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6315	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: fussy cattle car

Thanks for all the replies and ideas. I added a short pig-tail from the base of the front truck rivet to a spot directly beneath it in the middle of the contact-tab facing down and voila, that cars hums no matter however I twist or turn the trucks. Runs fine too, no affect on cornering, etc. I have to admit, a cattle loader wasn't much on my wish list of accessories, but fortunately as I was walking out of York last April, one of the sellers saw me glance at this one and offered a good price to move it and the car. Both now are great fun to run. I'm glad they're on my layout, In fact, I'd say it even steals the show from the 785, and Louie at the 779. One funny bit upon unloading is just as the last cow reaches the base of the ramp, they all start heading back up. And I used to wonder if they'd ever want to climb that thing, now I can't keep them away from it!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6316	From: Joseph F. Haughney	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: Market Penetration Thoughts et al

Gentlemen: I have seen the various discussions on Lionel versus other S guage manufacturers. My thoughts are as follows: I recently picked up a Lionel Alaska set for 150.00 as compared to a S Helper Conrail starter set for $299. Both had track and a transformer and both were made in China. The scale detail on the Alaska set was not as good as the S Helper but it was $150.00 cheaper. In my opinion, the problem that S faces is market size and distribution. S must be found on Toyrus and other stores/web pages and perhaps add in a CD ROM like MTH sets to make the toy more computer friendly for the 8 to 12 year old set. The current venue of selling to the 45 -60 year old set is a demographic failure over the short and long term plus what happens to the train values when we all pass on to the great roundhouse in the sky over the next ten to twenty years. Its also sort of like where I work. There are all of us guys over 50 who they want to keep because the middle that they grew got fed up with the lack of money and potential and they cant afford the young kids let alone pay them the high five and low six figures that they want. But we too are getting fed up and are walking with our pensions which fortunately are still there for those of us within 5 years of our number. We may think that we have works of art, and we do, but I don't see American Flyer trains featured at general auctions (only specialized ones that we guys whose kids are out of college and have some money attend).. Volume sales is the key which must be used to bring the price down. I look at MTH and hope that they get into S because I think that it will improve market size and volume especially if you can get S at Sears and maybe eventually WalMart and KMart (Not to cheapen S but to broaden it). The objective is to take market share away from O (Sorry about that Lionel). Once market share is achieved then the follow-on sales at hobby stores, web and mail order will blossom. I think Ebay and other vendor web based services are helping to increase S because they provide access to items to people who cant attend train shows on a daily basis. How to increase volume is then the question. When I retire in the next year or two, I do not intend to write a business plan and execute it to put S in the forefront of train models but I sure as h.... wish someone would. As an aside, there was a message on the board about someone having a question on the MTH Z4000 transformer. I cant find the message now but I would be interested in hearing from anyone who bought one recently about their experience or other transformers (e.g. Lionels new ZW) since I am tired of rewiring my 15Ws and I have reached the conclusion that one should not run thousand dollar train sets with 50 year old transformers. I understand that American Models doesnt like the new high wattage transformers but limiters can also be placed to prevent board 'puff' if one knows what one is doing. Anyway thoughs, Joe Haughney

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6317	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: The Convention Car Thread

As Mr. Fields used to say, "Now, Boys . . .": It is fun watching you guys get testy over this issue, though I wonder sometimes what certain comments mean. For instance, Wayne Broadhead said "I would prefer that NASG and TCA and TTOS cars which want to REPRESENT AMERICAN FLYER, should be made by Lionel." How does a convention car represent American Flyer? If the A.C. Gilbert museum wants to release a commemorative car; if the American Flyer Collectors Club puts out a club car, these would be organizations interested in a car which represents American Flyer, and I would agree with your assessment. All the other clubs whose interests are S-Gauge or toytrains in general are on their own. I agree that AF is more toylike than SHS or AM or the others. I think that state of the art technology as regards mass production is the reason for it. Gilbert did not have some of the cool new production methods available to him back in the 40's and 50's. Also, Gilbert was building in durability so that his trains could resist the wear and tear of child's play. You've seen what a Tyco HO set looks like after some kid has played it to death. If A.C. Gilbert were alive today, I think he would be proud of that TOFC of Don's. (Hey Don, nice to see you weigh in on this. "Who is the true keeper of the spirit of A.C. Gilbert?" indeed.) I think A.C. would have a string of well cars loaded with containers, too. He'd be building Dash-8's and Santa Fe Super Fleets. There would be BNSF markings and Norfolk Southern sets. And they wouldn't all be Geeps or PA's! A.C. built todays trains. It's just that today was 40 years ago. He put the EP-5 on the rails almost before the New Haven did. Pennsy only had one K-5 when Gilbert built the model in anticipation of the next generation of PRR steam. The way old Flyer is worshipped by constant reproduction seems weird and necrotic, like Jimmy Stewart trying to reproduce his dead wife by changing Kim Novak into her in "Vertigo." Don Thompson & Ron Bashista have been building trains the way Gilbert would be building them now, I believe. A.C. would recognize that his primary market is not kids any more. Now, you wouldn't trash that Tyco H.O. by playing with it, would you? So, while durability is a good thing in operating models, it isn't necessary to sacrifice scale detailing to get there. Lionel brought Flyer out of a long retirement by reproducing a large number of items. We thank them for that. It is now no longer necessary to make the Flyer trains which Lionel makes. Those big oversize journal boxes and molded in ladders are a thing of the past. Lionel has not enshrined Flyer, it has encrypted it. Encrypted in the sense that it has turned Flyer into a dead language, like Latin; revered, but never changing. Encrypted also, in the sense of entombing, locking away forever in a never changing memory. Hey, that's not what they're doing with O gauge! They're releasing a brand new Big Boy, their second articulated in a year. Joshua Cowen never put out an articulated! How come Lionel doesn't stick to producing endless Hudson's, F-3's and Alco FA's? Stop crying at the gravestone. Come, join the living. Yes, we all loved American Flyer, but we can't keep passing the bones around for another look. Life goes on. Come, let's get something to eat. Then I'll show you my Down's TankTrain! Did you get an SHS extended vision caboose yet? For those who are keeping count, here is the current tally. 36 unique votes cast, 31 in favor of non-Lionel convention cars, 4 in favor of Lionel Flyer, 1 (Wayne Beachy. What is it with you Wayne guys? :-) ) said it did not matter either way. Don Thompson did not vote. Neither did I. If you do add us in, I guess you can figure out where. Toot, toot, hear the mournful whistle cry. Ask not for whom the whistle blows, it blows for thee, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6318	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: pulmor in non-pulmor, not.

Well somehow I lunched the armature in my 312 yesterday. It ran hard and long on a large layout (~25'x25') full speed with 6 passenger cars for about an hour. Either the armature got too hot, warped and pulled in a brush part way, or a brush somehow lodged partway in on a diagonal and caused the armature to overheat, but in any case, the comms are now visibly warped with a "ditch" worn in them as well. Both brushed started out about 5/16" long. I tried a pulmor armature, but as many of you probably already know, that didn't work. The pulmors are too long from front thrust bearing to back thrust bearing by about an 1/8". Time to add one non-pulmor armature to my parts list. Today I'm going to run my large motor 326 and AM GG1 over the lunch hour. Fingers crossed there won't be any more additions to my engine projects bin. PS If you're ever in the DC area this time of year, stop in the US Geological Survey building to see the trains running -- G, S, O, HO, and sometimes N and Z too. http://www.usgs.gov/

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6319	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: Industrial Rail 027 Caboose

This past Saturday I bought a Industrial Rail 027 caboose and it is very close, if not exact to S scale. After removing the 0 gauge trucks, I then drilled out the mounting hole and forced fit a piece of 1/4" wood dowel into the hole. I then used wood screws to mount a pair of SHS trucks and the SHS long caboose couplers. The original mounting position was dead on for the SHS trucks and couplers. I had to trim a little from the bottom of the endsill to give the coupler proper clearence. If you went with the KD's you would probably only have to glue on a plastic pad for mounting the couplers. On Sunday I returned to the Greenberg Show, where the ACSG Carolina Div. had our modular layout up and running. Everyone, even our club rivet counter, was impressed! It really looks good. So for less then $30.00 I had a new stlye of caboose. My caboose is decorated for the Chessie/B&O, also available was the BN and (in the correct paint scheme for this style caboose) the SantaFe. Check them out, the price is right! Now to find some O gauger to sell the oversized trucks to and it will be like getting a rebate! Tom Davis, Charlotte, NC

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6320	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: USGS display- day II

No munched armatures today, just a great run by an ACG 326, relieved occasionally by an AM GG1. The Hudson got several looks and comments from operators and observers who included my wife, 4 year old daughter and 5 year old son. From the operators - - "so what makes that choo-choo sound?, <a piston>, really?, wow that things really smokes a lot <thanks, I rewound the coil, but you can find some originals that still smoke that well too>". From observers, "hey, look at that one. listen closely". From one elderly man with a German accent to a fellow operator at the end of the transformer table, "no there's a good one <pointing to the Hudson coming down the track toward him> what makes it run so well like that?" The GG1 ran as smooth and reliably as ever, but with all the new O, and G scale stuff around, it was nice to run something from 40-some years ago. Makes me wonder what reactions I'd get with a Northern pulling a freight consist including a 970, and/or a 742 skipping around the loop, or a 343 with..... Maybe next year, not sure I can make it over tomorrow or Thursday. Sure had fun.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6321	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: Re: Industrial Rail 027 Caboose

Are there any photos of this and any of the other potentially convertible-to-S-scale cars available. TPDavis7@... wrote: > From: TPDavis7@... > > This past Saturday I bought a Industrial Rail 027 caboose and it is very > close, if not exact to S scale. After removing the 0 gauge trucks, I then > drilled out the mounting hole and forced fit a piece of 1/4" wood dowel into > the hole. I then used wood screws to mount a pair of SHS trucks and the SHS > long caboose couplers. The original mounting position was dead on for the > SHS trucks and couplers. I had to trim a little from the bottom of the > endsill to give the coupler proper clearence. If you went with the KD's you > would probably only have to glue on a plastic pad for mounting the couplers. > On Sunday I returned to the Greenberg Show, where the ACSG Carolina Div. had > our modular layout up and running. Everyone, even our club rivet counter, > was impressed! It really looks good. So for less then $30.00 I had a new > stlye of caboose. My caboose is decorated for the Chessie/B&O, also > available was the BN and (in the correct paint scheme for this style > caboose) the SantaFe. Check them out, the price is right! Now to find some > O gauger to sell the oversized trucks to and it will be like getting a > rebate! Tom Davis, Charlotte, NC > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6322	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/21/1999
Subject: Re: Industrial Rail 027 Caboose

The caboose is the only one that I have seen that can be converted. The other cars are in the traditional/Rail King size, and appear to be unsuitable. I believe there is an advertisement in the latest issue of CTT showing the complete line. Tom Davis

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6323	From: John Denholm	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 473

S-Trains@onelist.com wrote: > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > There are 9 messages in this issue. > > Topics in today's digest: > > 1. The True Flyer@ Spirit is alive!!!!!! > From: "Michael A. Scivoletti" <cbat1244@...> > 2. fussy cattle car > From: David_Horn@... > 3. Market Penetration Thoughts et al > From: "Joseph F. Haughney" <JHAUGH12@...> > 4. The Convention Car Thread > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > 5. pulmor in non-pulmor, not. > From: David_Horn@... > 6. Industrial Rail 027 Caboose > From: TPDavis7@... > 7. USGS display- day II > From: David_Horn@... > 8. Re: Industrial Rail 027 Caboose > From: ironhors@... > 9. Re: Industrial Rail 027 Caboose > From: TPDavis7@... > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:08:49 -0500 > From: "Michael A. Scivoletti" <cbat1244@...> > Subject: The True Flyer@ Spirit is alive!!!!!! > > Dear Don, > > I am not voting, but would like to say this. If it was not for > start of American Models and now your fine work, I do not think that > Lionel@ would even put out what it does in American Flyer@. > The current owners have NO idea what model railroading or even > just the "fun" of trains is about or about the enjoyment we get as > modellers. I do not claim to be a modeller. I just like TRAINS period. > Probably like most others on the list, I got an American Flyer@ > set as a kid, mind was probably the first year they were out. My first > and only set was a 322 Hudson with SIT versus SIB, an MKT yellow boxcar, > a side dump red metal hopper, a floodlight car and standard Reading > style caboose. When Gilbert changed to SIB, the engine was traded in for > the 322 AC Hudson I got now ('49-'50). Links were changed to knuckles. A > Gulf three dome tank, and log car were added and that was the extent of > my "set". > Today, I prefer diesels, oil tanks, covered hoppers (trough type > from AM), your bulk head flats, a caboose at the end of the train, and > eventually double stack cars when they become ready-to-run. > If Lionel@ American Flyer@ sticks around for more than a few > years (it changes hands faster than oil slipping through fingers), maybe > the owners will get their "act " together. > If A. C. Gilbert wanted to keep American Flyer@ a toy like it > was when he bought it, then there was no need to change it over from > three rail O to 2 two rail S except as a marketing ploy against Lionel@. > > His "scale" of '46 was the best as possible with the state of the art of > manufacturing at the time. I really believe if he had been younger or > was able to past his company on to someone with the same "vision", than > American Flyer@ could possibly be on the "wish list" of today's > generation. Computers and trains go together these days on the real > "layouts" of Krebs and Co. (CEO of Burlington Northern & Santa Fe). > Maybe the new leader of American Flyer@ would have had the courage to > provide two levels of products, one the original way that could be > handled by children with the change ability to "upgrade" to scale > operation later on as the "dream" grew, and the scale level that you > provide . To me that would the best of both "worlds". > Like with the death of Walt Disney, American Flyer@ and the > Disney company are NOT what their original owners had in mind for the > future. I believe Gilbert would have been up to the state of art that > you pass along while still remembering the products of the past. Just > like all Intel@ chips for the newer computers can and will read most > older programs, if any body doubts your respect for the American Flyer@ > heritage, I would ask them to explain about you supplying the Flyer@ > type wheels as the main set and providing the scale wheels as an option. > > I truly believe that SHS has done more for the spirit of > American Flyer@ then the current owners of the name will ever do. End of > Soap Box!! > A Merry and joyous Holiday and a Happy New Year to all. May the > "Chief Superintendent" bring you all the trains on your "wish list"!!!!! > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:14:39 -0500 > From: David_Horn@... > Subject: fussy cattle car > > Thanks for all the replies and ideas. I added a short pig-tail from the > base of the front truck rivet to a spot directly beneath it in the middle of > the contact-tab facing down and voila, that cars hums no matter however I > twist or turn the trucks. Runs fine too, no affect on cornering, etc. > > I have to admit, a cattle loader wasn't much on my wish list of accessories, > but fortunately as I was walking out of York last April, one of the sellers > saw me glance at this one and offered a good price to move it and the car. > Both now are great fun to run. I'm glad they're on my layout, In fact, I'd > say it even steals the show from the 785, and Louie at the 779. One funny > bit upon unloading is just as the last cow reaches the base of the ramp, > they all start heading back up. And I used to wonder if they'd ever want to > climb that thing, now I can't keep them away from it! > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:31:00 -0500 > From: "Joseph F. Haughney" <JHAUGH12@...> > Subject: Market Penetration Thoughts et al > > Gentlemen: > I have seen the various discussions on Lionel versus other S guage > manufacturers. My thoughts are as follows: > > I recently picked up a Lionel Alaska set for 150.00 as compared to a S > Helper Conrail starter set for $299. Both had track and a transformer > and both were made in China. The scale detail on the Alaska set was not > as good as the S Helper but it was $150.00 cheaper. In my opinion, the > problem that S faces is market size and distribution. S must be found on > Toyrus and other stores/web pages and perhaps add in a CD ROM like MTH > sets to make the toy more computer friendly for the 8 to 12 year old > set. The current venue of selling to the 45 -60 year old set is a > demographic failure over the short and long term plus what happens to > the train values when we all pass on to the great roundhouse in the sky > over the next ten to twenty years. Its also sort of like where I work. > There are all of us guys over 50 who they want to keep because the > middle that they grew got fed up with the lack of money and potential > and they cant afford the young kids let alone pay them the high five and > low six figures that they want. But we too are getting fed up and are > walking with our pensions which fortunately are still there for those of > us within 5 years of our number. > > We may think that we have works of art, and we do, but I don't see > American Flyer trains featured at general auctions (only specialized > ones that we guys whose kids are out of college and have some money > attend).. > > Volume sales is the key which must be used to bring the price down. I > look at MTH and hope that they get into S because I think that it will > improve market size and volume especially if you can get S at Sears and > maybe eventually WalMart and KMart (Not to cheapen S but to broaden it). > > The objective is to take market share away from O (Sorry about that > Lionel). Once market share is achieved then the follow-on sales at hobby > stores, web and mail order will blossom. I think Ebay and other vendor > web based services are helping to increase S because they provide access > to items to people who cant attend train shows on a daily basis. > > How to increase volume is then the question. When I retire in the next > year or two, I do not intend to write a business plan and execute it to > put S in the forefront of train models but I sure as h.... wish someone > would. > > As an aside, there was a message on the board about someone having a > question on the MTH Z4000 transformer. I cant find the message now but I > would be interested in hearing from anyone who bought one recently about > their experience or other transformers (e.g. Lionels new ZW) since I am > tired of rewiring my 15Ws and I have reached the conclusion that one > should not run thousand dollar train sets with 50 year old > transformers. I understand that American Models doesnt like the new high > wattage transformers but limiters can also be placed to prevent board > 'puff' if one knows what one is doing. > > Anyway thoughs, > > Joe Haughney > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:37:12 -0500 > From: "busy-boy" <busy-boy@...> > Subject: The Convention Car Thread > > As Mr. Fields used to say, "Now, Boys . . .": > > It is fun watching you guys get testy over this issue, though I wonder > sometimes what certain comments mean. For instance, Wayne Broadhead said "I > would prefer that NASG and TCA and TTOS cars which want to REPRESENT > AMERICAN FLYER, should be made by Lionel." How does a convention car > represent American Flyer? If the A.C. Gilbert museum wants to release a > commemorative car; if the American Flyer Collectors Club puts out a club > car, these would be organizations interested in a car which represents > American Flyer, and I would agree with your assessment. All the other clubs > whose interests are S-Gauge or toytrains in general are on their own. > > I agree that AF is more toylike than SHS or AM or the others. I think that > state of the art technology as regards mass production is the reason for it. > Gilbert did not have some of the cool new production methods available to > him back in the 40's and 50's. Also, Gilbert was building in durability so > that his trains could resist the wear and tear of child's play. You've seen > what a Tyco HO set looks like after some kid has played it to death. > > If A.C. Gilbert were alive today, I think he would be proud of that TOFC of > Don's. (Hey Don, nice to see you weigh in on this. "Who is the true keeper > of the spirit of A.C. Gilbert?" indeed.) I think A.C. would have a string > of well cars loaded with containers, too. He'd be building Dash-8's and > Santa Fe Super Fleets. There would be BNSF markings and Norfolk Southern > sets. And they wouldn't all be Geeps or PA's! A.C. built todays trains. > It's just that today was 40 years ago. He put the EP-5 on the rails almost > before the New Haven did. Pennsy only had one K-5 when Gilbert built the > model in anticipation of the next generation of PRR steam. The way old > Flyer is worshipped by constant reproduction seems weird and necrotic, like > Jimmy Stewart trying to reproduce his dead wife by changing Kim Novak into > her in "Vertigo." Don Thompson & Ron Bashista have been building trains > the way Gilbert would be building them now, I believe. > > A.C. would recognize that his primary market is not kids any more. Now, you > wouldn't trash that Tyco H.O. by playing with it, would you? So, while > durability is a good thing in operating models, it isn't necessary to > sacrifice scale detailing to get there. Lionel brought Flyer out of a long > retirement by reproducing a large number of items. We thank them for that. > It is now no longer necessary to make the Flyer trains which Lionel makes. > Those big oversize journal boxes and molded in ladders are a thing of the > past. Lionel has not enshrined Flyer, it has encrypted it. Encrypted in > the sense that it has turned Flyer into a dead language, like Latin; > revered, but never changing. Encrypted also, in the sense of entombing, > locking away forever in a never changing memory. Hey, that's not what > they're doing with O gauge! They're releasing a brand new Big Boy, their > second articulated in a year. Joshua Cowen never put out an articulated! > How come Lionel doesn't stick to producing endless Hudson's, F-3's and Alco > FA's? > > Stop crying at the gravestone. Come, join the living. Yes, we all loved > American Flyer, but we can't keep passing the bones around for another look. > Life goes on. Come, let's get something to eat. Then I'll show you my > Down's TankTrain! Did you get an SHS extended vision caboose yet? > > For those who are keeping count, here is the current tally. > 36 unique votes cast, > 31 in favor of non-Lionel convention cars, > 4 in favor of Lionel Flyer, > 1 (Wayne Beachy. What is it with you Wayne guys? :-) ) said it did not > matter either way. > > Don Thompson did not vote. Neither did I. If you do add us in, I guess you > can figure out where. > > Toot, toot, hear the mournful whistle cry. > Ask not for whom the whistle blows, it blows for thee, > Chris Zizzo > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:52:16 -0500 > From: David_Horn@... > Subject: pulmor in non-pulmor, not. > > Well somehow I lunched the armature in my 312 yesterday. It ran hard and > long on a large layout (~25'x25') full speed with 6 passenger cars for about > an hour. Either the armature got too hot, warped and pulled in a brush part > way, or a brush somehow lodged partway in on a diagonal and caused the > armature to overheat, but in any case, the comms are now visibly warped with > a "ditch" worn in them as well. Both brushed started out about 5/16" long. > > I tried a pulmor armature, but as many of you probably already know, that > didn't work. The pulmors are too long from front thrust bearing to back > thrust bearing by about an 1/8". Time to add one non-pulmor armature to my > parts list. > > Today I'm going to run my large motor 326 and AM GG1 over the lunch hour. > Fingers crossed there won't be any more additions to my engine projects bin. > > PS If you're ever in the DC area this time of year, stop in the US > Geological Survey building to see the trains running -- G, S, O, HO, and > sometimes N and Z too. http://www.usgs.gov/ > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:53:49 EST > From: TPDavis7@... > Subject: Industrial Rail 027 Caboose > > This past Saturday I bought a Industrial Rail 027 caboose and it is very > close, if not exact to S scale. After removing the 0 gauge trucks, I then > drilled out the mounting hole and forced fit a piece of 1/4" wood dowel into > the hole. I then used wood screws to mount a pair of SHS trucks and the SHS > long caboose couplers. The original mounting position was dead on for the > SHS trucks and couplers. I had to trim a little from the bottom of the > endsill to give the coupler proper clearence. If you went with the KD's you > would probably only have to glue on a plastic pad for mounting the couplers. > On Sunday I returned to the Greenberg Show, where the ACSG Carolina Div. had > our modular layout up and running. Everyone, even our club rivet counter, > was impressed! It really looks good. So for less then $30.00 I had a new > stlye of caboose. My caboose is decorated for the Chessie/B&O, also > available was the BN and (in the correct paint scheme for this style > caboose) the SantaFe. Check them out, the price is right! Now to find some > O gauger to sell the oversized trucks to and it will be like getting a > rebate! Tom Davis, Charlotte, NC > > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:04:18 -0500 > From: David_Horn@... > Subject: USGS display- day II > > No munched armatures today, just a great run by an ACG 326, relieved > occasionally by an AM GG1. The Hudson got several looks and comments from > operators and observers who included my wife, 4 year old daughter and 5 year > old son. From the operators - - "so what makes that choo-choo sound?, <a > piston>, really?, wow that things really smokes a lot <thanks, I rewound the > coil, but you can find some originals that still smoke that well too>". > >From observers, "hey, look at that one. listen closely". From one elderly > man with a German accent to a fellow operator at the end of the transformer > table, "no there's a good one <pointing to the Hudson coming down the track > toward him> what makes it run so well like that?" The GG1 ran as smooth and > reliably as ever, but with all the new O, and G scale stuff around, it was > nice to run something from 40-some years ago. Makes me wonder what > reactions I'd get with a Northern pulling a freight consist including a 970, > and/or a 742 skipping around the loop, or a 343 with..... Maybe next year, > not sure I can make it over tomorrow or Thursday. Sure had fun. > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:51:19 -0600 > From: ironhors@... > Subject: Re: Industrial Rail 027 Caboose > > Are there any photos of this and any of the other potentially > convertible-to-S-scale cars available. > > TPDavis7@... wrote: > > > From: TPDavis7@... > > > > This past Saturday I bought a Industrial Rail 027 caboose and it is very > > close, if not exact to S scale. After removing the 0 gauge trucks, I then > > drilled out the mounting hole and forced fit a piece of 1/4" wood dowel into > > the hole. I then used wood screws to mount a pair of SHS trucks and the SHS > > long caboose couplers. The original mounting position was dead on for the > > SHS trucks and couplers. I had to trim a little from the bottom of the > > endsill to give the coupler proper clearence. If you went with the KD's you > > would probably only have to glue on a plastic pad for mounting the couplers. > > On Sunday I returned to the Greenberg Show, where the ACSG Carolina Div. had > > our modular layout up and running. Everyone, even our club rivet counter, > > was impressed! It really looks good. So for less then $30.00 I had a new > > stlye of caboose. My caboose is decorated for the Chessie/B&O, also > > available was the BN and (in the correct paint scheme for this style > > caboose) the SantaFe. Check them out, the price is right! Now to find some > > O gauger to sell the oversized trucks to and it will be like getting a > > rebate! Tom Davis, Charlotte, NC > > > > > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 21:13:40 EST > From: TPDavis7@... > Subject: Re: Industrial Rail 027 Caboose > > The caboose is the only one that I have seen that can be converted. The > other cars are in the traditional/Rail King size, and appear to be > unsuitable. I believe there is an advertisement in the latest issue of CTT > showing the complete line. Tom Davis > > _______________________________________________________________________________ > _______________________________________________________________________________ Hi Joe; jde here : my answer and opinion for what it's worth to your question I switched over to American Flyer a yearago. It was the smartest thing I have ever done I had been a Lionel collector and operater for ten years since my switch I don't look back period! As for transformers I recently purchased a a new Tech 11 TrainPower 027 and I tried all the rest from my ZW to my 150 Watts by lionel and my #48 by A-F and I still returned to my Tech Two I think it is the lightweight and still has the power for slow scale starts and running and it can handle several trains at once. I would go for the 2400 Tech two if that is the kind of power your looking for! but dependant on your layout I would look around a bit check out Downs RailRoading.com as they seem to have the finest stuff yet. also American models might have something of course I am a novice yet other guys can surely help to. Thanks jde

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6324	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 473: UMD Caboose

ironhors@... wrote: > Are there any photos of this and any of the other potentially > convertible-to-S-scale cars available. The only other car from UMD that has S-potential is their "Ore Car." It's a turn-of-the-century design, (1899-1900, not 1999-2000) or early 1900's, avaliable in black or brown, no lettering. Haven't measured this car, primarily because I have no compelling interest in it, but my eyeball sez it's close. With S trucks, it certainly would be compatible with the Franklin stuff. Merry Christmas to all... Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6325	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: A NPSG HOLIDAY GREETING

Our club website has our latest newsletter and modular layout pictures. http://members.xoom.com/northpenn_s/main.html members.xoom.com/northpenn_s/main.html All of the best for a holy and joyous Christmas and New Year. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn NASG secretary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6326	From: Roger Petrella	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: AF locomotive features

I have made a chart that gives you a quick look at what items are typical on each of AF steam locomotives. I made this because I can never remember which has smoke & where, cast shells, etc. and helps to see if the typical factory configuration is there before I buy something. This list is not all inclusive, but has the most common features and most typical configuration. I'm sure there are some differences to be found. I think this is mostly correct. If you find any glaring errors or think I need to add a couple of items, let me know and I'll make corrections or modify. The table is in Wordperfect format but should be easily converted to other word processing programs. It currently fits on a standard 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper (multiple pages). If for some reason you can't get the attachment off the list, let me know and I'll email it directly to you. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6327	From: RxMan46321@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: Action accessories on DC?

Haven't seen this question. Do the action accessories work with DC or do they require AC? John Griffin

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6328	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: S Gauge TCA 2000 convention car

Just a reminder, The last day of sales for this 2 car set is December 31st, 1999. -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6329	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: Re: Industrial Rail 027 Caboose

The AM coach project sounds interesting, keep us informed of your progress. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6330	From: Paul D. Schneider	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: WP B-unit and diner

This is hardly a big deal, but does anyone know where I can get my hands on: a) the Western Pacific "Railsounds" B-unit for the AF?LTI "California Zephyr" set and b) the diner for same Used, new, I don't care. I'm just trying to get a handle on one of each (and a reasonable price). Thanks. Paul Schneider, proud owner of a drop-dead gorgeous S-Helper NP SW9 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6331	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/22/1999
Subject: Re: Action accessories on DC?

Most should work on DC but one exception I can think of is the original Flywe Barrel Loader which has a synchronous motor. Anything using a solenoid will be OK, the solenoid will pull in a little harder in most cases. RxMan46321@... wrote: > > From: RxMan46321@... > > Haven't seen this question. Do the action accessories work with DC or do they > require AC? > > John Griffin > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6332	From: jde@connect.ab.ca	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Track Conversion

Hi there; I need some advice and help please As I am in the process of converting my Layout Track from the Earlier AF 4 Tie Track to the newer AF Pikemaster Track I need 6 Turnouts 3 rights and 3 Lefts If I am unable to get the Pikemaster Can I use the Cargrave's Turnout # 6's ? As I am able to adjust the Track heights <Not The Rails themselves> just the complete switch. If I can't use the cargrave 's any suggestions would be Apreciated. I can use the older flyer turnouts with a bit of modifiacation re the pins and height ok. What i dont like is the Bounce from the frog on the older switches if that could be corrected they would be a Great switch for my convert. Thanks for the listen <jde>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6333	From: JSBMLB@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: More on the convention car

I would like to heartily weigh in with Chris Zizzo. I share his views strongly. I have purchased far more AM and SHS in the last few years with SHS being 80-90% in the last 2 years. The forethought and effort to make a quality product like NO OTHER SCALE has is incredible. SHS is not only fantastic for S scale, there isn't anything like it for quality in any other scale. They have taken great pains to make the product compatible for both scale and flyer lovers. I love the scale and admire the efforts and reward it with my $$$. I vote for SHS to do convention or any cars. Here's looking for new and continually better things from todays manufacturers. My 2 cents!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6334	From: Bill Porter	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Roger Petrella's List

Hi Ya'll, Roger was kind enough to send me a copy of his list in a format that I can use with Microsoft Word. The chart is very handy and packed with useful, summarized information. I printed it out and I'll keep it with my Flyer references. So, this note is a public 'Thank You' to Roger for the fine work. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year, Bill Porter

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6335	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Re: Roger Petrella's List

Rogers list is available on S-Trains http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/locospecs.html Thanks Roger -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6336	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Industrial Rail Cars

Rich Gajnak wrote: >The only other car from UMD that has S-potential is their "Ore Car." People of S: I stopped in yesterday to a hobby shop near me to see if he had the IR caboose. He did not, but he did have an open frame log car with chained down plastic logs. The logs looked a little false, but it was a nice little die cast log car and the 027 trucks looked huge & out of place. Sizewise, it was smallish, like a narrow gauge logging hauler. My eye says "S" gauge. __________________________________________________________________________ Roger Petrella, I'd love a copy of your chart. I only see the digest form, so your address is all xxx's (presumably as a spam deterrent. E-mail me at busy-boy@... . __________________________________________________________________________ John Denholm, please don't use "reply" when writing to the list. Use the address S-Trains@onelist.com and write your message. If you need to quote from someone, cut & paste from their post into yours. We don't need to see all of yesterdays list repeated in your post. Also, you said: >I would look around a bit, check out Downs RailRoading.com. I tried that address but it doesn't work. Do you have an actual URL? Is this Russ Down's site? Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6337	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Re: Track Conversion

Dear jde I can't imagine why anyone would want to convert to Pikemaster, but if you insist; the Pikemaster switches are very commonly available, even as NOS still in-the-box (well, OK, it's just a card with clear plastic, but some early ones came in a box!). From their ad in S Gaugian, Gargraves has a new switch in production, looks like it might do the trick for you too. For the Pikemaster switches, check with the "usual suspects" and HSS has a bunch of them still too. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6338	From: Marty Cook	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail Proposed S-gauge Projects

Just received the latest E-mail installment today of the 3rd Rail Update. This is a heads up for anyone who cares that there was mention made about 3rd Rail S-Gauge projects remaining on hold, due to the fact that quanities of advance reservations are not sufficient to support these proposed projects, and to keep checking the 3rd Rail website for updates. Marty Cook TCA# 95-41425

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6339	From: john foley	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: 3rd Rail

Hi Folks This is part of a form letter that I got today from 3rd Rail. Maybe their is still hope that they will do these S projects. John Foley S Guage projects are still on hold, due to the fact that quanities of reservations are not sufficient to support these proposed projects. Keep checking our website for updates. HO- Will be announcing our next HO project shortly. We are looking forward to meeting your hobby needs into the new Millennium. Best Regards, Scott Mann

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6340	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: S-Trains Additions

Thanks to Joe Haenn for the pictures from the Charlotte train show. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/charlotte/charlotte.html I added a couple links to the FAQ page. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6341	From: Jarcho	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Accessories on DC

Any device that uses a vibrator will not work on DC. This includes the stockyard, the animated station, the baggage smasher, and the walking brakeman cars. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6342	From: Neil Trump	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Re: Accessories on DC

Don't forget the talking stations, log loaders. Neil T. -----Original Message----- From: Jarcho <jarcho@...> To: S-trains@onelist.com <S-trains@onelist.com> Date: 23 December 1999 14:22 Subject: [S-Trains] Accessories on DC >From: jarcho@... (Jarcho) > >Any device that uses a vibrator will not work on DC. This includes the >stockyard, the animated station, the baggage smasher, and the walking >brakeman cars. Tom Jarcho > >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6343	From: Neil Trump	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: An odd ball 326?

Help! some years ago I picked up a rather sad looking 326, which has since been restored, but during the restoration I noticed that it didn't seem to fit the description of a standard production 326, it has the following strange peculiarities which I'm hoping someone might or might not recognise:- 1/ The motor is a later style unit that you would find in say a 21085, it has a drum comm. The smoke unit is of the later type, i.e. it is accessible only from the top. It is not a split chassis BTW. 2/ The tender does not have the centre pick-up shoes and shows no evidence of having any. It is also devoid of the speaker assembly and again shows no evidence of having one, there are no tell tale signs of screw marks. 3/ It is hard wired between loco and tender and the date is stamped as July '56 My personal view is that it was probably made up from a myriad of bits from numerous boxes by someone in the distant past, but you never know! Very shortly it will undergo further work, to make it closer to its original spec, as I managed to pick up the correct tender at York for it ($10) which needs very little work to it and hopefully when it arrives, the installation of a "Super" motor. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6344	From: Vic Bereskin	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 474

Both of these items show up fairly often on E-bay. The B-Units seem to go for around $150 and the diners for about $75 > Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:05:31 -0800 (PST) > From: "Paul D. Schneider" <fasttrack2000@...> > Subject: WP B-unit and diner > > This is hardly a big deal, but does anyone know where > I can get my hands on: > > a) the Western Pacific "Railsounds" B-unit for the > AF?LTI "California Zephyr" set and > > b) the diner for same > > Used, new, I don't care. I'm just trying to get a > handle on one of each (and a reasonable price). > > Thanks. > > Paul Schneider, proud owner of a drop-dead gorgeous > S-Helper NP SW9 > >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6345	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Re: An odd ball 326?

Neil, Sounds about right for a '56 mid-year production 326, except for the lack of contact sliders. The motor should be the large (or rather, long) armature version, although with the vagrancies of production, it could have left without the large motor inside. This loco was probably boxed as a five-diget unit, too, although it could have been in a set. Remember, these were toys, and made as such!! The barrel armatures came about long before the split chassis, although I don't have production times, but I *think* it was around '59 -- my scene-a-rama set has a split chassis 21085 loco. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6346	From: Neil Trump	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: An odd ball 326?

Help! some years ago I picked up a rather sad looking 326, which has since been restored, but during the restoration I noticed that it didn't seem to fit the description of a standard production 326, it has the following strange peculiarities which I'm hoping someone might or might not recognise:- 1/ The motor is a later style unit that you would find in say a 21085, it has a drum comm. The smoke unit is of the later type, i.e. it is accessible only from the top. It is not a split chassis BTW. 2/ The tender does not have the centre pick-up shoes and shows no evidence of having any. It is also devoid of the speaker assembly and again shows no evidence of having one, there are no tell tale signs of screw marks. 3/ It is hard wired between loco and tender and the date is stamped as July '56 My personal view is that it was probably made up from a myriad of bits from numerous boxes by someone in the distant past, but you never know! Very shortly it will undergo further work, to make it closer to its original spec, as I managed to pick up the correct tender at York for it ($10) which needs very little work to it and hopefully when it arrives, the installation of a "Super" motor. Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6347	From: john foley	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Fw: MERRY CHRISTMAS

----- Original Message ----- From: john foley To: John Foley Sent: Friday, December 24, 1999 9:14 AM Subject: MERRY CHRISTMAS Hi Folks HAPPY HOLIDAYS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR JOHN FOLEY

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6348	From: NYC17819@aol.com	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Christmas Poem

NIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS (with apologies to Clement C. Moore) By Ken Lauderback 'Twas the night before Christmas In the old railroad shop; The machines were all silent - Work had come to a stop. We were finishing up And preparing to leave For an evening with family And a great Christmas eve, When from in front of The shop came the sound Of an overloaded sleigh Impacting the ground. We all ran out the door, And old St. Nick lay there, And he looked up at us With a withering glare. "Santa!" we cried, "What a mess! Are you hurt?" Then Santa stood up And he brushed off the dirt And he said with a growl, "I've just had enough Of you guys who like working On this antique stuff! "Your Christmas list caused Quite a stress to my elves Do you think we keep all these Old parts on our shelves? "A Westinghouse air pump? A new engine cab? Where do I get this stuff? Buy it pre-fab? "A shiny old bell? A steam engine whistle? This stuff ain't as light As the down of a thistle! 'These reindeer can pull Only so much, you know! They couldn't quite handle That whole 4-4-0! "When the load gets this heavy, They all make a fuss! Prancer is whining! Rudolph's wearing a truss! "And speaking of reindeer, It ain't easy to drive With a lap full of side rods For the ol' '105'! "And what about me? What am I s'posed to do? Does the word HERN-I-A Mean something to you? "There once was a time - I recall it quite well - When you asked for some train stuff You meant Lionel! "But now when you ask for Some things for your train, Well, I can't really say Where it gives me a pain! "In the future, when you Send your Christmas desires, DON'T ASK for a new set Of steam engine tires! "Now just don't ask again! There's no sense even talking! All the steam stuff I have is some coal for your stocking. "So from now on if you want your Christmas made merry, Ask for a TOY choo-choo - THAT I can carry! "As for train stuff, if you're Wanting something specific, Don't even call me. Call Union Pacific? As we stood there in shock, Santa strode to his sleigh, And he called to the reindeer And flew up and away. But we heard him exclaim, Ere he drove out of sight:. "The next stop is Steamtown?! Oy, what a night!" Chris Harding with thanks to Harold Crouch for sending this.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6349	From: NYC17819@aol.com	Date: 12/23/1999
Subject: Lyin'l announcement!

I know I sent this last year but it's still amusing. Chris Harding _________________________ Lyin'L Special Announcement The big news in railroading last year, this year, and probably next year is the breakup of Conrail. To Commemorate this event, Lyin'L presents the following additions to it's line of authentic model trains. As an added bonus, you get a free Lyin'L patch with every purchase of $50.00 or more. These collectible patches are the perfect way to cover up those embarrassing holes in your jackets. SOUTH KEARNY INTERMODAL SET $189.95 Our best seller from the River Line Collection is back, this time with even more trains! You'll tear your hair out in frustration. CLEVELAND JUNCTION SET-$199.99 Recreate the postmerger action at "ground zero"! Try to keep the CSX and NS trains moving around a figure eight track layout. Set includes crossing track with tower and two stop signals. CLEVELAND JUNCTION ADD-ON SET $79.95 Set features a by-pass track and two model houses. Run your trains over the bypass to avoid congestion, but do it too often and angry homeowners pop out of the houses. Set includes an assortment of local politicians. NS AND CSX COAL HOPPER SET $29.95 Let's face it, without the coal revenue, CSX and NS would be a pair of rinky-dink regionals. This limited boxed set of two hopper cars commemorates the secret of their success. Cars include genuine loads of "Chessie" brand kitty litter, and "Thorobred" brand horse manure. CONRAIL COMMEMORATIVE BOXCAR $19.95 An authentic replica of a Pennsylvania X-58 boxcar, painted Penn Central green with Conrail logo and "NYC" initials. CONRAIL STOCKHOLDER ACTION FIGURE $8.95 Wind it up and watch it laugh all the way to the bank. SURFACE TRANSPORTATION BOARD PLAYSET $19.95 Includes chairperson, vice-chairman, an empty chair, and an official S.T.B. rubber stamp. ACTION C.E.O. PLAYSET $39.95 Re-live the famous battle for control of Conrail. Set features three C.E.O. action figures, each authentic in every detail, right down to the stuffed shirt and big head. Also includes two dozen assorted vice-presidents, a big bag o' lawyers, twelve billion in play money, and a 17,000 page instruction manual. "SORRY" BOARD GAME $14.95 In this updated version of the classic board game, players move all over the country, bumping each other as they try to avoid landing on the dreaded "NS" square. The last player to still have a job in his home terminal wins. Lyin'L- Model trains that just sit there.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6350	From: James Wysopal	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Roger's engine list

This is a great list. I will keep a copy with my other important AF literature. I wish to make one correction, I think. I believe that the 315 Pacific has a whistle in the tender. All the reference books mention it. Greenberg's book list it and Doug Peck has 315 stamped on his repro whistle control packaging for the 314AW. Would someone with a 315 please check to see if this number does have a whistle. I have the engine and need to find a tender with whistle to go with it. Season's Greetings to all. Jim

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6351	From: Don652@xxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Storage

How about some advice on what to do with AF diesel engines that have been stored for 45+ years before i run them for extended periods of time.Now don't forget you are talking to a old rookie. Thanks in advance and a Merry Christmas to all. Don Bitting Harrisburg,Pa.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6352	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Re: Storage

I would check to make sure nothing in the drive train is frozen before applying power. Oiling the bearings lightly and cleaning the wheel treads and pick up shoes is all that should be required. Maybe running a few minutes from test leads before placing on the track would br as good idea. Don652@... wrote: > > From: Don652@... > > How about some advice on what to do with AF diesel engines that have > been stored for 45+ years before i run them for extended periods of > time.Now don't forget you are talking to a old rookie. Thanks in advance > and a Merry Christmas to all. Don Bitting > Harrisburg,Pa. > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6353	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Gargraves

Thanks to all who responded to my question about how to shape Gargraves track. I received several ideas. The most common idea was to make a form from plywood that is the inside diameter of the track desired and to shape the track against the form while tacking the track to your layout. Thanks again for your help. Scott Brown sbrown56@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6354	From: Rhett T. George	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Christmas and a question

- Greeting`S' - May God bring to you the richest of blessings and much joy in this holiday season. John Griffin asked a fine question about AC vs DC for accessories. AC or DC can be used on accessories which have lights only or lights and a brush-type motor (similar to the AC locomotive motors) such as the whistling bill-board. DC will run the motor on the crane, but may overheat the electromagnet if it is used continuously. This applies to the Seaboard coal loader as well. DC must not be used on accessories which have induction motors such as the talking stations. It will let the smoke out and the motor can be used as a paperweight. Cheer`S' Rhett George

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6355	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 475

In a message dated 12/24/99 3:54:57 AM Mountain Standard Time, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: Merry Christmas to all from NO SNOW .........Idaho Steve Blackburn RMHR, Boise

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6356	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Re: Storage

Don & All too, Good question. Actually a few of us have been working, on and off, on a FAQ for trains taken out of storage. The steamers revive much better than the diesels, so YES, there are a few things you should do. Remove the truck sideframes (two screws each, on bottom) Remove the body shell (various screws, all into brittle plastic! be careful!) Wiggle the wheels, and the armatures, make certain they aren't bound up. If they are, well, more surgery, beyond this text! Using light oil, oil the axles, the armature bearings (that's what the two holes in the sideframe plates are for) and oil the ends of the armature shaft (a needle oiler is needed, you reach in behind the axle gear) Apply light grease to the axle gear (remove hardened old gunk first) Use contact cleaner on the reverse unit drum. Manually trip it a number of times. Test!! (Please return your locomotive to the upright position--otherwise the reverse unit can't cycle) Replace the body shell, if you have cracked screw holes, they can be fixed with super glue, but then you need to put the screw in "hot" after the glue cures (leave the chassis off, and place the screw in the hole, just the tip of it. Set screwdriver on the screw, and then put a hot soldering iron against the screwdriver and the screw. Apply light turning tension, when the screw starts to turn very easily, remove soldering iron, and tighten. This allows the hot screw to "melt" its new threads in, and doesn't stress the plastic). After the screw cools off, remove it, and resume assembly. The trick to putting the screws back in is to get them to go into the already cut threads, so you need to learn to 'feel' each screw into place. One way is to turn it backwards until you feel it drop into the first thread. You know you have it right when it goes in with little resistance. Hope this helps out! Merry Christmas everyone! S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6357	From: W. Thomas Boussum	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Season's greetings

Hi S-Gaugers, I'm just dropping a line to wish everyone, American Flyer and scale modelers alike, my best wishes for a great holiday season. By the way, does anyone know if AC Gilbert Flyers are Y2K compliant? May the fat guy in the red and white suit give you what you want for your layout. W. Thomas Boussum

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6358	From: PortLines@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Re: shutdown

To all our customers out there...... Want you to know that we are closed until Monday, Jan 3rd, as we are off to NC to see our new grandson! You can still mail, Fax, or E-mail your orders, and we will fill and ship ASAP after the 3rd. Happy Holidays, and Happy Y2K, to all! Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6359	From: mary jo shutt	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: American Flyer O

I know this for s gauge,however I was wondering if anyone could help me out? I picked up an O gauge set at local flea market and I can't find infomation on it. It includes a black 0-4-2 engine,the tender has American Flyer lines with white stripes on it,an orange lumber car with what appears to be an original load,a white Bordens car and red caboose.There are no numbers on any of the items.Is this an original set?Where can I get information on this set?What is the current value on each item? Rick

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6360	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/24/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6361	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/25/1999
Subject: Merry Christmas!!

To all our Family & friends, Wishing you a very Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year. Hope you are surrounded by loved ones and that the next year, as we go into the next century (One more year!! ;-) ), is filled with adventures and grand memories. We tried to send out one of those neat web-based animated cards, but apparently the system crashed, so here's our home-made one. Linda & David Dewey

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6362	From: LEAHY RUTH A	Date: 12/25/1999
Subject: 21925-1 U.P.

Would anyone on the list happen to have the Union Pacific dummy unit (21925-1) for sale, or know of one somewhere? Any help would be appreciated? Also, what is the best cleaner to use to clean A.F. diesel paint? Once cleaned, have any of you found a wax or preservative that works well with Flyer paints? Thanks! Mike Leahy

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6363	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/25/1999
Subject: More new Lionel

Chris Harding wrote: >Lyin'L presents the following additions to it's line of authentic modeltrains. Chris: This year included an LIRR set. Combo (dual service) diesel electric, three double deckers, and a control cab coach. It has full railsounds, except the horn had to be removed and anyone buying the set becomes a co-defendant in a class action. The new whistle comes next year at additional cost to you. This may end the legal action against you. If you're engine mistakenly has the original operating whistle included, fer cryin' out loud, don't blow it! You'll immediately be mailed an environmental impact statement and county officials will come to your home with decibel meters. It's realism in railroading like nothing old Josh Cowen could think up! Don't blow two to go! Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6364	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: lionel Christmas car 1999( S-Gauge version)

Has anyone seen or heard about the Christmas car from Lionel this year? The one in S-Gauge. The one that is packaged as American Flyer. My Favorite hobby shop did not receive it as of 12/25. I guess it's time to buy the S-Helper Christmas cars from here on out. Do you have any left Don? Thanks , Chris P.S. The wheels on my 336 came loose on me the other day while running it on my christmas layout, what's the best way/easiest way to make a good fix on this. Is the epoxy putty method in Tom Barkers book a good way to do this?

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6365	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Re: lionel Christmas car 1999( S-Gauge version)

Dear Chris, We only have a few of the Cedar Heights Clay company (1999 Christmas Cars) left. I did finally locate some documentation on next years prototype Christmas car. This search is by far the hardest that I do every year. Don T. Cbtrainnut@... wrote: > From: Cbtrainnut@... > > Has anyone seen or heard about the Christmas car from Lionel this year? The > one in S-Gauge. The one that is packaged as American Flyer. My Favorite hobby > shop did not receive it as of 12/25. > I guess it's time to buy the S-Helper Christmas cars from here on out. Do you > have any left Don? > Thanks , Chris > P.S. The wheels on my 336 came loose on me the other day while running it on > my christmas layout, what's the best way/easiest way to make a good fix on > this. Is the epoxy putty method in Tom Barkers book a good way to do this? > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Don Thompson S Helper Service Inc. http://www.showcaseline.com 1.800.465.0303 2nd batch of SW-9s, Starter Sets and 2000 catalogs are now shipping!

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6366	From: jde@xxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: PikeMaster Curved Track

Hi guys/gals; Well I finally have been cured! NO MORE I refuse to buy on Ebay anymore as there are two many "Snipers" those are the guys that wait until the last 2 Min then out bid you so that you don't have tyme to place a counter bid even if your online at Ebay you still can't get get your Bid in. So I would rather buy from a "Stationary Service" Like from our Members here. Here is what I need to complete my layout Ineed 4 Pikemaster AF S Guage Tracks that's It? ------------------------------ Can anyone supply with 4 pieces of Pike curved Track thats in good shape? I will Prepay Shipping/& cost and in a International money Order Please. jde@... Please contact if you have a few bits you want to sell.Thanks jde.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6367	From: Roger V. Petrella Jr.	Date: 12/25/1999
Subject: Locomotive shells

Does anyone out there have a 290 die cast shell and a couple of GP7 shells they want to sell? Paint conditon doesn't matter as these will be repainted. Roger Petrella Franktown, CO

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6368	From: Bill Porter	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Re: eBay Bid Snipers

Hi JDE, Here is a contrary opinion. The only way a 'bid sniper' can outbid someone else is if the first bidder fails to follow the eBay recommendations. They say 'bid the amount you are willing to pay' when you make your bid. The system automatically matches bids from multiple bidders and only advances your bid until it is high or it is surpassed. You bid what you are willing to pay and let the market process work. Now, of course, if a bidder bids a lower amount, hoping to get a bargain at less than they think the item is worth, they make themselves vulnerable to someone else who might bid more, later. Is that what you were trying to do? If you made a bid at the amount you are willing to pay and someone bids more, that is the way an auction is supposed to work. In an auction like this, you can choose your own strategy. Sellers prefer everyone to bid early. Buyers hope that if they bid late, no one else will notice the item. You get to choose your path and live with your results. In live auctions, I have seen bidders with paddles raise them and then walk towards the auctioneer. I guess they plan on intimidating the other bidders. I have also seen people who never bid until the auctioneer says "Going Once....Going Twice....G". Think of these folks as live auction snipers. If the auctioneer doesn't see them in time, the gavel may strike and they will miss out. The same thing can happen to an eBay sniper if he cannot get logged on as an auction is ready to expire. Too bad for them since they are not following the eBay suggestions (which favor the sellers - the people who pay money to eBay). In the meantime, Mark Preman ( http://www.americanflyertrains.com/ ) and Doug Peck ( http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html ) are excellent places to buy old stuff that is exactly as they say it is. If you wish, I can also send you the address of my favorite hobby shop which has the new things and does mail order business. Happy New Year, Bill Porter -----Original Message----- From: jde@... <jde@...> To: S-Trains@onelist.com <S-Trains@onelist.com> Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 9:17 AM Subject: [S-Trains] PikeMaster Curved Track >From: jde@... > >Hi guys/gals; >Well I finally have been cured! NO MORE I refuse to buy >on Ebay anymore as there are two many "Snipers" >those are the guys that wait until the last 2 Min >then out bid you so that you don't have tyme to place >a counter bid even if your online at Ebay you still >can't get get your Bid in. > >So I would rather buy from a "Stationary Service" >Like from our Members here. > >Here is what I need to complete my layout >Ineed 4 Pikemaster AF S Guage Tracks that's It? > ------------------------------ >Can anyone supply with 4 pieces of Pike curved Track >thats in good shape? I will Prepay Shipping/& cost >and in a International money Order Please. >jde@... Please contact if you have a few >bits you want to sell.Thanks jde. > >>Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm >List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6369	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: loose steam loco drivers

You don't say whether the rims (tires) are loose from the wheels or the wheel centers are loose from the axles. If rim is loose, pull it towards the chassis as far as possible, clean out the joint with a q-tip and solvent or fantastik, let dry, apply some slo zap or other delayed action gap filling ACC cement to the joint with a toothpick, and pull the rim back into place or pry it into place with a screwdriver . Remove the rods and valve gear and rods first so you can spin the wheel: this will reveal any defect in the positioning of the tire. Adjust it before the glue sets so that there is no shimmy or wobble. If it's the motorixed axle, run the motor to achieve the same thing. If the wheel center is loose from the axle you have a much bigger repair job in front of you. The chassis should be removed from the loco and the motor disassembled and removed from the chassis. The axle hole and end should be prepared first by cleaning and degreasing and then have scratches gouged into them with the corner of a small file. This will give the epoxy something to grab. Steam loco drivers must be quartered correctly or they will bind. The wheels on one side are 90 degrees (actually 88) in front of those on the other side. The wheel must be replaced exactly in the correct position. I like to place a makeup mirror on the other side of the chassis so that I can see both sides at once. Then carefully line up all the wheels on the good side, and press the loose wheel on part way. When you are satisfied that the wheel is lined up correctly (which often takes me about half an hour) apply some steel filled epoxy to both the axle and hole with a toothpick and press the wheel all the way on. Remove any excess epoxy with a small knife. You can place the chassis under a lamp to provide a small amount of heat which will make the epoxy cure stronger. Another thing I like to do is take a piece of thin card stock, punch a hole in it, cut a slit from the hole to the edge, and insert this on the axle before pressing on the wheel. It goes up against the chassis to catch any excess epoxy before it gets into the axle hole in the chassis. When the epoxy is partially set, remove the card stock by pulling it so the axle goes thru the slit. Sometimes the epoxy cracks after setting under the rtress of operation. If this happens, some ACC applied to the joint will make it stronger than before but the wheel must be in correct quarter. Hope this helps. It's more interesting than watching the Giants lose another game. Arrrrgggghhhhh! Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6370	From: Dave Ewing	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Showcase Lines

Hi S-gaugers one and all, We would like to share with you a true story that happened to us. It all started in Eden, NC. during the first week December when we received the Showcase Line Catalog. It really is as good as everybody says it is. Infact, Don, I think one free copy should be sent to everyone on the list. Anyway, my wife and I looked through every page. I felt that it was my responsibility to explain to her all the wounders that she was seeing. She really didn't appear to appreciate what I was doing for her. But being a good sport she hung in there for all 48 pages. I left the magazine laying around incase there was anything that she might want to review later. (small grin) It worked, she ordered the ICG starter set for me for Christmas. Nothing unusual so far. It probably happened in your house too. As calculated as all that was I could never had expected the rest of the story. My wife requested delivery by Christmas. I think I can, they replied. Send it U.S. mail to a P.O. box. I think I can, they replied. There was a mix up with the credit card number. Showcase lines called her for clairification and still I think I can, they replied.. The ICG arrived in plenty of time and in perfect condition and works great! and I know they said I thought I could. The folks at Showcase Line performed far above the call of duty. They let no excuse get in their way and won my admiration. I realize that behind all this service that they had there own personal Christmas plans. My thanks to Don Thompson and his people at Showcase Line for a job well done. By the way the train is fantastic, too. Dave & Ellen Ewing

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6371	From: S-Trains-owner@xxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6372	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: From Ted Larson

Paul or Mike, I'm away from home, so can't post. Would you please post this on the lists for me? Thanks, Ted Larson From Ted at mhrreast@... Does anybody know of any layouts in the Raleigh NC area that I should try to see whilst here on Christmas break (other than the North Carolina Live Steamers, who I visited today)? Please leave a reply to my Yahoo.com address, or if you are in the Raleigh area, call me at 469-8650 Thanks, Ted Larson -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6373	From: Alan C Udy	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Power Connections Between Diesels?

The LFlyer PA has traction tires on each truck, meaning it has a real tendency to stall on the American Models turnout frogs. Other than keeping the pickup wheels very clean, has anyone seen any PAs that are MUed together, the mating unit with the horn also picks up power, and a few wires and minature connector will solve the problem. Does anyone have experience with such a minature connector? Can additional pickups be added to the other truck of the power unit so that each truck will pick up power from both rails, lengthening the effective wheelbase of the collector surfaces? ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6374	From: Cheri221@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Re: lionel Christmas car 1999( S-Gauge version)

I found the 1999 car on eBay for $5 under what Lionel had listed in their 1999 Volume 2 Catalog, page 16. Part 6-48341 $54.95. It is a great looking boxcar and addition to the Christmas train that's running around the tree this year. Cheri Masters Auburn, WA

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6375	From: RRDART@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/26/1999
Subject: Re: Showcase Lines

In a message dated 12/26/99 5:38:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, bryce@... writes: << Hi S-gaugers one and all, We would like to share with you a true story that happened to us. It all started in Eden, NC. during the first week December when we received the Showcase Line Catalog. It really is as good as everybody says it is. Infact, Don, I think one free copy should be sent to everyone on the list. Anyway, my wife and I looked through every page. I felt that it was my responsibility to explain to her all the wonders that she was seeing. She really didn't appear to appreciate what I was doing for her. But being a good sport she hung in there for all 48 pages. I left the magazine laying around incase there was anything that she might want to review later. (small grin) It worked, she ordered the ICG starter set for me for Christmas. Nothing unusual so far. It probably happened in your house too. As calculated as all that was I could never had expected the rest of the story. My wife requested delivery by Christmas. I think I can, they replied. Send it U.S. mail to a P.O. box. I think I can, they replied. There was a mix up with the credit card number. Showcase lines called her for clairification and still I think I can, they replied.. The ICG arrived in plenty of time and in perfect condition and works great! and I know they said I thought I could. The folks at Showcase Line performed far above the call of duty. They let no excuse get in their way and won my admiration. I realize that behind all this service that they had there own personal Christmas plans. My thanks to Don Thompson and his people at Showcase Line for a job well done. By the way the train is fantastic, too. Dave & Ellen Ewing >> Ditto, except my set is C&O and I am in Maryland.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6376	From: Glenn Ritter	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: NPSG GREENBERG SHOW PICTURES

First: Our thanks to Curt Johnson for loading our Greenberg Train Show pictures on our website over the holiday. http://members.xoom.com/northpenn_s/main.html Second: Mike will not have to help me mount the motorized drive unit on my Corgi PCC trolley. My wife, Lin, surprised me on Christmas with the Philadelphia PTC version already motorized to S Gauge. Who said wives don't support us in this hobby? She bought it from; Pennsylvania Heritage Models,LTD. R.D. 4 Box 139 Birdsboro, PA 19508 See you at Family Heritage Restaurant Train show on 1/28 & 29/2000. Staying on the NPSG branchline of NASG track, Glenn, NASG secretary

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6377	From: Cheri221@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: Re: Showcase Lines

<< My thanks to Don Thompson and his people at Showcase Line for a job well done. By the way the train is fantastic, too. Dave & Ellen Ewing >> "Ditto, except my set is C&O and I am in Maryland. RRDART@..." Ditto again...my new set is NP in Washington state. ..Cheri Masters/John Warner

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6378	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: Re: lionel Christmas car 1999( S-Gauge version)

Does anyone know of a dealer who has these in stock? Everyone I have contacted is sold out; it looks like this was a very limited run. --- Cheri221@... wrote: > I found the 1999 car on eBay for $5 under what Lionel had listed in > their > 1999 Volume 2 Catalog, page 16. Part 6-48341 $54.95. It is a great > looking > boxcar and addition to the Christmas train that's running around the > tree > this year. > > Cheri Masters > Auburn, WA > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6379	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: SHS cars and 19" radius track

Are S-Helper cars incompatible with AF 19" radius track? The trucks sides short against the car's sill which also prevents the truck swiveling far enough, so it derails. Is there any way to get them to run on the old AF curves? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6380	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: Re: SHS cars and 19" radius track

On the Atlantic Coast S Gaugers two modular layouts we have not had any problems operating SHS cars and locos on AF 19"R track. SHS new Truetrak system has radius' in 19", 24" and 29". SHS will be coming out soon with a number 3 turnout(switch) which is the same footprint as the original AF turnout(switch). You should not have any problems. Tom Davis, Carolina Central Div.ACSG

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6381	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: 3-in-one oil

Is 3-in-one oil, which I remember as the oil of choice in the 50's for my Flyer equipment, compatible with plastics? I have been useing Labelle 107 for ten years for my rairoad models, and came across a can of 3-in-one in my paint locker. Since I no longer have my Hawthorne bycycle and generally use 3-in-one around the household I was wondering if anyone is still sucessufully uses this oil on there modern models with tne newer plastics. Tom Davis, Charlotte, NC

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6382	From: michael prell	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: "The Board Break & Elbow Smash" lives!

A very long time ago I began a journey which has lead me to earning a Brown Belt in Tae Quan Do with a Local martial arts school. At about the same time I also became a born again Flyer fan, having recently taken on the challenge of constructing a "circle" of track around the perimeter of a spare room in our home. Said layout hangs about 7 inches from the ceiling. Great strides have taken place with hopes of being able to run before the end of this century. I am happy to report that my goal is 99.9/10ths complete. The only standout being my obtaining 4 element wire for our resident cow on the track. Next to making a final commitment to completion was choosing a name for this journey back to childhood. (A place where my Wife still believes that I reside). I've chosen the name Board Break & Elbow Smash from my martial arts background. Somehow, the two worlds seem to complement one another. Anyhow, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year. Good Health, and happiness to all!!! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6383	From: ironhors@xxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: Re: 3-in-one oil

I think 3-in-1 is off the market--if not, I stand corrected--chances are the best place for the can is on the heirloom shelf along with the orange-brown TONES Spices cans and tubes of Ipana toothpaste. Plastics are a form of oil--hydrocarbon, that is, and I'd stay as contemporary compatible as you can. Maybe the best way to go is the synthetic non-petroleum lubes that have come out over the last few years. TPDavis7@... wrote: > From: TPDavis7@... > > Is 3-in-one oil, which I remember as the oil of choice in the 50's for my > Flyer equipment, compatible with plastics? I have been useing Labelle 107 > for ten years for my rairoad models, and came across a can of 3-in-one in my > paint locker. Since I no longer have my Hawthorne bycycle and generally use > 3-in-one around the household I was wondering if anyone is still sucessufully > uses this oil on there modern models with tne newer plastics. Tom Davis, > Charlotte, NC > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6384	From: William H Trefts	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: Lionel/Flyer 1999 Christmas Car

Gentlemen, I am also in pursuit of the 1999 American Flyer Christmas Car. The local shops I've tried here in St. Louis are either sold out, or not received their order yet. Scenery Unlimited sold out in October and has not been able to obtain any more from the factory or from other sources. Does anyone know who might have one available? Thanks in advance! Bill Trefts ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6385	From: jde@xxxxxxx.xx.xx	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: PikeMaster Tack

Thanks to all who answered my request for curved track one of our members came through with flying colors thanks to Dave Dewey. I still need the Pikemaster Af S Guage Turnouts Manual at least 3 to start with 1 left and 2 Rights for my main Line any help will be appreceiated Thanks jde. P.S I promise not to be a Buggy once I have finished my Layout as it is a small one with 30 pieces of track and 3 turnouts as I have all the track now all I need is 3 turnouts ? Thanks Guys & gals of S Trains jde

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6386	From: Brad Rockwell	Date: 12/27/1999
Subject: Pikemaster Tack switches

jde?, Call Hobby Surplus Sales.1-800-233-0872. The manual switches are listed for 8.00 each or two for 9.99. Page 68 of current catalog. CHD26323RH , CHD26324LH. Theyalso have powered switches and straight track and pins. Good luck, Brad

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6387	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: Lionel 1999 Cristmas car

Well,(deep subject for a shallow mind) since my O-gauge dealer couldn't get me the Lionel s Christmas car, I decided to order the S-helper car . Robin left a message on my voice mail that it would be shipped by UPS around 3:30 today. I might be lucky and get it before the new year is here. From now on I'll by the s-helper car every year instead of the flyer car. Don said they had a few left, so don't wait much longer, you may end up without any for 1999. Thanks to all whom responded to my question originally. If I hadn't received the replies so quickly, I may have been left out in the cold this year.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6388	From: Ben Kronenwetter	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: looking for tender

My wonderful wife got me the Hallmark 746 Norfolk and Western Steam Locomotive Keepsake ornament but didn't realize there was an accompying tender ornament that went with it. I have been to several Hallmark Stores and have not been able to find it yet. If anyone knows where I may purchanse the tender that goes with this ornament could you please send me a phone number or address so I couls write to them and purchase it. Thanks and Happy New Year........Ben

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6389	From: Rich Gajnak	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: SHS on 19" radius

> Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 13:15:54 -0800 (PST) > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > Subject: SHS cars and 19" radius track > > Are S-Helper cars incompatible with AF 19" radius track? The trucks > sides short against the car's sill which also prevents the truck > swiveling far enough, so it derails. Is there any way to get them to > run on the old AF curves? Well, I've had no trouble with SHS cars on their 19" radius S-Trax, so they should run fine on Flyer 19" radius. Suggestions: 1) Try backing off the truck screws about a 1/4 turn, the screws may just be too tight. 2) Remove the truck and check the coupler for flash in the pivot hole. I ran across this on a Portlines reefer once. 3) Although I haven't seen this, check for flash on the coupler body itself. There may be a small piece binding the couplers causing your derailments. Hope this is of some help. Rich G.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6390	From: Bill Sandrus	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: 3 in 1 oil

Hi S' Gaugers It's been my experience over the past years that 3 in 1 oil has a paraffin base and solidify's when heat is added to it. I wouldn't use it in my engines, and as stated I don' t even know if its made any more. Bill Sandrus RMHR Boise ID

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6391	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: 3 in 1 oil

The lubricants, such as LaBelle, available today simply lubricate better than 3 in 1 oil. One place where you can really notice a difference is the armature bearings of AF diesels. The newer lubricants will result in better motor performance than 3 in 1. 3 in 1 stays in place better though. Tom Jarcho

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6392	From: Chuck Smith	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: Re: SHS on 19" radius

I routinely run SHS cars on 19" radius AF track with no problems. Are you sure you're not on Pikemaster which is smaller radius?. Rich Gajnak wrote: > > From: Rich Gajnak <rich.gajnak@...> > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 13:15:54 -0800 (PST) > > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > Subject: SHS cars and 19" radius track > > > > Are S-Helper cars incompatible with AF 19" radius track? The trucks > > sides short against the car's sill which also prevents the truck > > swiveling far enough, so it derails. Is there any way to get them to > > run on the old AF curves? > > Well, I've had no trouble with SHS cars on their 19" radius S-Trax, so > they should run fine on Flyer 19" radius. > > Suggestions: > 1) Try backing off the truck screws about a 1/4 turn, the > screws may just be too tight. > 2) Remove the truck and check the coupler for flash in the > pivot hole. I ran across this on a Portlines reefer once. > 3) Although I haven't seen this, check for flash on the > coupler body itself. There may be a small piece binding > the couplers causing your derailments. > > Hope this is of some help. > > Rich G. > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm -- Chuck Smith of the NASG, Rochester Area S Gaugers (RASG) and the S Gauge Chemung Valley Lines. http://home.eznet.net/~cesmith "It is often wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt." Mark Twain

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6393	From: Neil Trump	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: Truck rivet query

What is the difference between rivet #'s PA10235 and PA10235-A ? Neil T.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6394	From: Paul Yorke	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: 1957 Flyer Catalog

If you like old Flyer catalogs... Check out my web version of the 1957 Flyer catalog. http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/catalog57/set57_cov.html I have linked it back to actual photographs of the set contents. I hope to do other catalogs using the same techniques. -- Paul Yorke - Indiantown Fl. American Flyer Trains - 3D Photography - Computers http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/ (alt e-mail PaulYorke@...)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6395	From: WNHOLCOMB@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: STrain/Flyer Shops in Florida

I am planning on spending most of January in the Tampa/St Pete/Bradenton areas. Anyone know of any STrain or Flyer shops or train shows in these areas? Thanks, Neil Holcomb

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6396	From: TPDavis7@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: Re: 3 in 1 oil

Thanks for the information, 3 in 1 oil is still available from Lowes and the Home Depot. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6397	From: Cbtrainnut@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/28/1999
Subject: Train Shops in St Pete area

Neil,Try H and R trains inthe St pete area. They are on US 19 North. I worked there for about 6 months when I lived in Florida for a short time. Alice Morris is the owner. She is very knowledgable about trains in general. Her husband Don is best to avoid. Nice shop though! Also, in Tampa just across the Bay is Chester Holly Trains by appt. only. both advertise in the back of classic toy trains under the dealer section. Enjoy your trip. Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6398	From: esquivel	Date: 12/29/1999
Subject: Re: Train Shops in St Pete area

Hi guys, I just moved from Tampa, and his store (Chester Holly) is open tuesday thru friday 10:00-4:00. this time of year. He is open extended hours because of the increase in train interest before and after Christmas. even mondays and sundays. The phone number is 813-831-7202. enjoy, dave PS do not forget Franks trains in oldsmar (just 25 minutes from Chester Holly).813-855-1041. The area code for franks trains may have changed to 727. ----- Original Message ----- ----- Original Message ----- From: <Cbtrainnut@...> To: <S-Trains@onelist.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 1999 8:15 PM Subject: [S-Trains] Train Shops in St Pete area > From: Cbtrainnut@... > > Neil,Try H and R trains inthe St pete area. They are on US 19 North. I worked > there for about 6 months when I lived in Florida for a short time. Alice > Morris is the owner. She is very knowledgable about trains in general. Her > husband Don is best to avoid. Nice shop though! Also, in Tampa just across > the Bay is Chester Holly Trains by appt. only. both advertise in the back of > classic toy trains under the dealer section. Enjoy your trip. > Chris Burger > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm >

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6399	From: Mark Preman	Date: 12/29/1999
Subject: Train Shops in Florida

To Neil, Although I am in Orlando, I will have a three table spread at the Greenberg Train Show on January 22 and 23 at the Tampa Fairgrounds. This is a good show if you can make it. Mark B. Preman http://www.americanflyertrains.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6400	From: Scott Brown	Date: 12/29/1999
Subject: Re: Digest Number 480

Hi all !! Yesterday I was re-reading a book called "American Flyer Features" from Heimburger Publishing. It mentions 2 books called "AC Gilbert's Heritage" and "The Man Who Lives in Paradise". Ever heard of them ? Are they worth reading ? Know where i could find a copy ? Scott Brown sbrown56@...

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6401	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/29/1999
Subject: Hallmark

Ben Kronenwetter said: >I have been to several Hallmark Stores and have not been able to find the accompanying >tender that went with the Hallmark 746 Norfolk and Western Steam locomotive ornament. Ben: The Hallmark stores got hit hard this year. I have been unable to get my wife's favorite "Frosty Friends" (number 20 in a series) as well as the Frosty Friends glass ornament for '99, and I'm in the doghouse. Anybody seen these? Go to www.Hallmark.com and click thru to find the Gold Crown store finder. Punch in my zip code, 11768. No other info will be necessary, and hit the "find" or "search" button. Of the stores coming up, check Geri's in Huntington and LeMarc's in Walt Whitman. I was to both of them yesterday and one of them had the engines and tenders. (I think it was Geri's, though LeMarcs had the mini-version, which I bought for half off!) All the addresses and phone numbers are on the website. Good luck, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6402	From: B.T.S. - Bill & Diane Wade	Date: 12/29/1999
Subject: B.T.S. Project Status

Howdy Friends Just a quick note to let you know what is happening around here.... Coon Gap Sawmill in S and O scale - We had hoped to have the samples of the machinery in hand, but none yet. Photos will be posted as soon as they arrive. We have already started production cutting on things like the roofs, trestle, etc., but must have the machinery to finish up the interior components. We have also been getting the white metal castings ready and stockpiling the other brass details. We have finished cutting the blacksmith shop, photos are posted at http://www.btsrr.com/btsblack.htm . We will be sending these out next week to the folks with mill reservations; now you can get started building! And as soon as we have the boiler house finished, it too will be shipped. We expect it will take about a month after the machinery arrives to get the rest of the laser work converted on the main building. So we are hoping to start shipping mills, S first - then O, around the start of Feb. 2000. E.B.T. Coles Station - Finished the production sample model in S scale. It is on the web at http://www.btsrr.com/bts7124.htm . We will start production of this kit next week, and be shipping by Jan 10. The O scale model will follow shortly thereafter. E.B.T. Orbisonia Station - Just a few left in S and O scales. http://www.btsrr.com/bts7127.htm E.B.T. 0-6-0 #6 S scale Standard Gauge - Talked with the builder the other day and he is still on schedule for a late January delivery. We should have some sample parts soon, and will post photos to the web page. Ma & Pa Locos will follow #6. http://www.btsrr.com/btsteam.htm E.B.T. 2-8-2 #12 S scale Narrow Gauge - Waiting on the builder to send back the final drawings. The On3 version will follow. http://www.btsrr.com/bts6000.htm East End Grocery - The S version is ready to go into the boxes, so this one will ship by Jan 7. It includes the interior components such as shelves, counter, and assorted detail castings. http://www.btsrr.com/bts7226.htm We will be out of the office from Dec 30 until Jan 3. Time for a quick visit to the family in Birmingham, AL. Thanks for your support in 1999. Di and I hope you have a safe and happy New Year! Take care, Bill -- =============== Scale Model Railroad Products ================ Manufacturer - Retailer - Distributor - Publisher - Importer Bill & Diane Wade Phone: 813-759-6300 FAX: 813-759-8218 B T S (Bill's Train Shop) http://www.btsrr.com S/Sn3 Modeling Guide http://www.modelingguide.com Master Creations http://www.master-creations.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6403	From: Boss31@xxx.xxx	Date: 12/29/1999
Subject: Re: 3 in 1 oil

Yep, sure, whatever you do don't use 3 in 1 oil. I've only used it for the past 40 yrs. and as all the people in this part of the world know, none of my stuff runs at all... I have a spare can for sale for the bargain price of $57 and most of the oil is still in it too. Steve Blackburn Boise, Idaho RMHR, TCA, NASG, FOOL

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6404	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: Roger's list

Neat, but could he post a Word version? Also, it'd be even better if the year(s) each model was produced was included. Thank you.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6405	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: magnetic couplers and metal wheels

Is it me, or did Ly'n L pull another boneheaded move in the latest S-Gaugian. There's a two page ad for their latest GP, caboose, and tank car, but the descriptions mention magnetic couplers, and metal wheels on the rolling stock? Sounds like the copy writer hadn't noticed they weren't writing an O guage 3-rail product ad. This is in the same issue as an interview with Dick. Who makes it clear anything's possible with enough market. Well, not to be hoidy-toidy, but it helps to communicate properly with your market if you want to win them over.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6406	From: David_Horn@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: Rogers list

Thanks Chuck and Bill for the Word file versions. Another point or two that might add value as a quick reference to have when cruising a show might be to indicate whether the engine came in either a small (1/2") and large (3/4") motor. Also, if the armature was a flat comm or barrel comm.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6407	From: busy-boy	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: Southern Crescent Locomotive Telephone

Paul Robinson asks: >I'm trying to find a train phone >that came out a few years ago; it's a green Southern Crescent, says 1925, >Anybody got a clue where I could get hold of one of these? Paul: Schraders Railroad Catalog always has them. I just checked their website and it happens to be the "Featured Product of the Month". It sells for $72.95. Go to http://www.railroadcatalog.com/ . It's right there on the home page. Two to go, Chris Zizzo

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6408	From: J. Row	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: Re: Rogers list

Excellent ideas, David! We're all looking forward to an "MS Word" Version of your update of Roger's AF locomotive information list. You'll be busy for a bit. By the time you beg, borrow, steal, or purchase an example of each for gathering more details, some time will have gone by. We can wait but it will be difficult, holding our breath and all. Please, send us all your updated version in MS Word (and other formats that some may be using) when it's complete. THANKS a BUNCH! Jim David_Horn@... wrote: > > Thanks Chuck and Bill for the Word file versions. Another point or two that > might add value as a quick reference to have when cruising a show might be > to indicate whether the engine came in either a small (1/2") and large > (3/4") motor. Also, if the armature was a flat comm or barrel comm. > > [Attachments have been removed from this message] > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6409	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: Re: Rogers list

Adding motor variations is a good idea, but there is no "definitive" variation. Apparently the motor installed depended on what was available in the parts bin during the production run. I suppose more research of "untouched" locos would develop a "production run" sequence of what normally would be in a given engine (i.e.: the May 57 run of XXX had large motor, flat commutator, while the Aug 57 production run had a Large motor, Drum commutator, but the Nov 57 run had small motor, drum armature--this example would indicate that loco XXX sold out early, and third run was done with "on-hand" parts). S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6410	From: yorke@xxxx.xxx	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: (no subject)

Roger Petrella's list can be seen at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/locospecs.html If you like I can make the next edition available for download. I have not tried to print the web version yet. --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using WebMail by CyberGate. http://www.gate.net/webmail

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6411	From: Fred Alles	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: American Flyer in Raleigh, N.C.?

My son is visiting in Raleigh, North Carolina for a few days and is looking for any stores that carry American Flyer. Any suggestions? Thanks Fred <falles@...>

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6412	From: jarcho@xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxxxx)	Date: 12/30/1999
Subject: Flyer steam locos

I thought Roger's list was excellent. One variation in Flyer steam locos that I would like to learn more about is the short period when steam loco drive wheels were made with enlarged flanges. Exactly which locos had this variation and when were they produced? Does anyone know? Thanks, and a happy and healthy New Year to all, Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6413	From: Richard	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Happy New Year !!

Happy New Year !! from this year to the last.... :-) Bet this is the first one you get >:~)) Richard

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6414	From: Don Abrams	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: flanges

Tom, My personal collection is quite small right now (link only -- trying to focus on '51). But, I do a lot of repairs and have been doing so for approximately 20 years. The only thing that comes immediately to mind as far as larger that average flanges on steam locos is those that were pullmor equipped and had metal wheels (not plastic). Especially noticeable on the non pullmor drivers on a pullmor loco. Even the drivers themselves have a slightly larger diameter (at the tread) so they would be the same dia. as the pullmor driver. This is especially noticeable on pacifics and the 21145 0-8-0 as the center blind drivers are now higher up off the rails. Compare a 342 with a 21145 and you'll see that the lead and trailing drivers are different diameters and not interchangeable. Don

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6415	From: David_Horn@bestsoftware.com	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Flanges

I thought steamers got tall flanges shortly after the '46 toy show when they were initially given the short flanges to look as "scale" as possible, but later it was discovered that the taller flange lends itself to better play-value and cornering. Anyway, that's all I can recall on the subject from a brief phone conversation I had a while ago with Bob Tufts when I was about to purchase a 312 SIT with short flanges and wondered why they looked different than my 303, 293, etc, flanges. Bob Tufts, hmmm, now there'd be a great Flyer Fan to have join this list.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6416	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: flanges

Hi all, Happy New Year! I am *so far* in agreement with Don, the wheel diameter of the pullmor equiped locos flanged drivers is larger, but I haven't measured my locos to see if there is a difference in flange depth from the early production ('46 and other brass-buttoned frames) to later production. Will take me a bit of time to check this out, but it's a good project, and should be done! BTW, the diesels did have different flange depths, the early ones being almost scale-like. S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6417	From: Neil Becker	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Port Lines

Happy New Year! Has anybody heard from Doug Peck recently? I've been trying to call him the last few days and get no answer from either phone number. I have also sent him several emails to which he has not responded. Doug, if you are viewing this message on the List, please give me a call. Thanks. Neil Becker (ps - I'm in digest mode)

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6418	From: Cbtrainnut@aol.com	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Hallmark N&W Coal Tender

I don't remember who was asking about the Wife not buying the tender with the engine,but I found some today at the mall Hallmark and picked a couple up. They still Had 3 left, so if anyone needs these let me know. I can go back and pick up the others if need be. Oh yeah, 50% off too. Of course it's first e-mail first serve.Just e-mail me and let me know ASAP. Chris Burger

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6419	From: Robin Thompson	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Port Lines

Dear Neil, I think that Doug is in North Carolina visiting his son and grandchild. I thought the message on his machine indicated this. Don T. Neil Becker wrote: > From: Neil Becker <Becks@...> > > Happy New Year! > > Has anybody heard from Doug Peck recently? I've been trying to call him the last few days and get no answer from either phone number. I have also sent him several emails to which he has not responded. > > Doug, if you are viewing this message on the List, please give me a call. Thanks. > Neil Becker > (ps - I'm in digest mode) > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6420	From: Ted Walton	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Roger's list.

Several of you want to waste Roger's time and money so he can convert the list over to MS Word. Why don't you all go out and buy a decent word processor like WordPerfect so this would not be a problem. If a document was written in MS Word and you had only WordPerfect you would be able to import the doc. into WP and be able to read it. What does this say about Microsoft(?). Why I have made these comments is that I'm afraid this attitude of saying "put it in my word processor format" will hinder others in the future from making such offers because of all the extra work involved in converting to other formats, which should not be the author's responsibility.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6421	From: David Dewey	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Roger's list.

MS Word converts the list nicely, I have it here, didn't "need no stinkin' Word Perfect" even though it can be abreviated WP! Usually all we PC guys need to read "the dark side's" programs is some understanding of what the file extension means. (I get into this argument a lot with a friend who is an ardent Apple promoter.) Fords & Chevy's folks! Speaking of which, back to my T project. . . . S' David D.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6422	From: Jarcho	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: decoding Roger's list

I couldn't decode Roger's list, so I e-mailed it to my son. He went to www.download.com, downloaded a program called Alladin Expander 5.0, and decoded and printed out the list for me. No big deal. The program was free. Tom

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6423	From: S-Trains-owner@onelist.com	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Reminder - S-Trains online mIRC chat session.

We would like to remind you of this upcoming event. S-Trains online mIRC chat session. Date: Sunday, January 02, 2000 Time: 08:00PM - 09:00PM EST (GMT-05:00) Text based online mIRC chat. Meet the S-Gauge/S-Scale folks. See http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/chat/chat.htm for details

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6424	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Port Lines

His phone message said he was going to be away Larry Neil Becker wrote: > From: Neil Becker <Becks@...> > > Happy New Year! > > Has anybody heard from Doug Peck recently? I've been trying to call him the last few days and get no answer from either phone number. I have also sent him several emails to which he has not responded. > > Doug, if you are viewing this message on the List, please give me a call. Thanks. > Neil Becker > (ps - I'm in digest mode) > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6425	From: Don Thompson	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: TCA cars

Today is the last day to order the S scale TCA 2000 convention cars. They can be ordered on line. You will have to be a TCA member or get a friend to order for you. > http://www.traincollectors.org/2000carorder.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6426	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Roger's list.

The greatest new years present the court of the good old US of A could give us is make umpteen little baby bills so they could be controlled. I use Netscape and windows has a "some thing" in it that netscape makes netscape lock up my modem about every 20th time I connect to the net and I have to reboot my computer to close the modem. Larry Ted Walton wrote: > From: Ted Walton <trwalton@...> > > Several of you want to waste Roger's time and money so he can convert the > list over to MS Word. Why don't you all go out and buy a decent word > processor like WordPerfect so this would not be a problem. If a document > was written in MS Word and you had only WordPerfect you would be able to > import the doc. into WP and be able to read it. What does this say about > Microsoft(?). Why I have made these comments is that I'm afraid this > attitude of saying "put it in my word processor format" will hinder others > in the future from making such offers because of all the extra work > involved in converting to other formats, which should not be the author's > responsibility. > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6427	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: rivets

In a message dated 12/29/99 5:52:31 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<What is the difference between rivet #'s PA10235 and PA10235-A ? >> The diameter of the head. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6428	From: PortLines@aol.com	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Books

In a message dated 12/30/99 5:56:04 AM, S-Trains@onelist.com writes: <<Yesterday I was re-reading a book called "American Flyer Features" from Heimburger Publishing. It mentions 2 books called "AC Gilbert's Heritage" and "The Man Who Lives in Paradise". Ever heard of them ? Are they worth reading ? Know where i could find a copy ? >> We stock both books, Scott. Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies 6 Storeybrooke Drive Newburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST 978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.) portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html VISA-MC-DISCOVER-AMEX ACCEPTED.

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6429	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Roger's list.

--- lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> wrote: > The greatest new years present the court of the good old US of A > could give us is make umpteen little baby bills so they could be >controlled. I use Netscape and windows has a "some thing" in it that >netscape makes netscape lock up my modem about every 20th time I >connect to the net and I have to reboot my computer to close the modem. It ain't Windows that breaks Netscape, Netscape breaks just fine all by itself. Of course, Windows breaks without Netscape too. It's not a conspiracy, it's just bad programming by amateur programmers. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6430	From: Scott Holm	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Port Lines - missing Doug Peck

On the 24th Doug sent this note to the list: Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 15:02:53 EST From: PortLines@... Subject: Re: shutdown To all our customers out there...... Want you to know that we are closed until Monday, Jan 3rd, as we are off to NC to see our new grandson! You can still mail, Fax, or E-mail your orders, and we will fill and ship ASAP after the 3rd.Happy Holidays, and Happy Y2K, to all!Doug Peck Port Lines Hobbies6 Storeybrooke DriveNewburyport, MA 01950-3408 Shop hours: Evenings, 7 - 9:30 PM EST978-465-8798 1-888-708-0782 (Toll-free.......Orders only, please.)portlines@... http://trainweb.com/crocon/portlines.html __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com

Group: S-Trains	Message: 6431	From: lawrence jackman	Date: 12/31/1999
Subject: Re: Roger's list.

I got it from a computer repair man that windows is programed to make every program not written by MS screw up some where. Also I have read this in a newspaper computer advise column. If you did some of the things that MS has done using a gun they would have buried you in the dungeon. Larry Scott Holm wrote: > From: Scott Holm <imsscott@...> > > --- lawrence jackman <ljack70117@...> wrote: > > The greatest new years present the court of the good old US of A > > could give us is make umpteen little baby bills so they could be > >controlled. I use Netscape and windows has a "some thing" in it that > >netscape makes netscape lock up my modem about every 20th time I > >connect to the net and I have to reboot my computer to close the > modem. > > It ain't Windows that breaks Netscape, Netscape breaks just fine all by > itself. Of course, Windows breaks without Netscape too. It's not a > conspiracy, it's just bad programming by amateur programmers. > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com > > > Check FAQs at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/FAQ/FAQ.htm > List info at http://www.trainweb.org/s-trains/list/smail.htm